Microsoft has still not announced plans for the Surface Pro 4, but when the company does reveal the successor to its popular Surface Pro 3 tablet, it might just have Intel's next-generation Skylake processors inside. Some marketing slides that showed up on the Internet show how Skylake will perform compared to Intel's current chips with the Broadwell architecture.
According to the slides, first posted at FanlessTech, battery life on devices with a Skylake chip should last up to 30% longer than those with Broadwell processors. Another one of the slides shows that the mobile versions of Skylake could have between 10% to 17% faster CPU performance compared to Broadwell, along with up to 41% better graphics performance with Intel's integrated solution.
The first devices with Skylake-based processors are expect to launch sometime this fall, possibly in October. That's also the time that our Editor-in-Chief Daniel Rubino says that, according to his sources, Microsoft might also launch the Surface Pro 4, with Skylake chips inside.
Thanks to MohammadMSFT for the tip!
Source: FanlessTech
Reader comments
Leaked slides show Intel's Skylake increased performance, could be inside Surface Pro 4
Won't be getting one. Finally managed to get my pro 3 from overseas since its not available in SA. Not about to get another surface anytime soon
The Pro 3 is still a great device, and still will be even when the SP4 comes out. Enjoy!
South Africa is deserted.
I envy you...
Or is it South America ;-)
Unlikely.
or is it Saudi Arabia? ;)
Silicon Alley
San Andreas.... Gosh!!!!
South Australia?
San Antonio?
It is?
San Antonio, TX
Nah its south African... Look at the name. And yeah we don't have much of anything Microsoft here. They are doing their best not to succeed
The name would indicate South Amsterdam, to close this banter
Dude... De Meyer is Afrikaans
Yep. South Africa
One for me, please!!!!
seems faster
Only 10%. Moore is dead, long live Moore.
^This
Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
That isnt the whole story though. This is a mobile processor. It's an increase in performance while decreasing power usage. You need to consider performance per watt, not just raw performance. Also, the integrated GPU increase is pretty substantial.
Wow!
My Surface Pro 1 is getting old. Hope this will be my Christmas present from myself. Look forward to SP4 and W Hello.
Same here!
Or maybe just a surface 3, if it have the power to steam from the Xbox one?
If Skylake is in the SP4, it's REQUIRED they include a full Thunderbolt 3.0 port, like, for real.
Why?
See Johoff80's reply, Thunderbolt 3.0 uses the exact same connector as Type-C, so it's compatible with ALL Type-C products, but has tons of added benefits thanks ti Thunderbolt.
Basically Type-C on steroids, I want it.
At this point I'll take USB Type C over Thunderbolt. Especially if we are talking USB 3.1.
I'll agree to you, too, USB Type-C over, well, anything, haha.
Thunderbolt 3.0 uses the Type-C connector. If it works with Type-C, it'll work with Thunderbolt. But Thunderbolt 3.0 has numerous and powerful advantages over Type-C. There's no trade off to having a Thunderbolt 3.0 port when compared to Type-C (aside from cost, which is well padded by the already massive price tag on the Surface Pro lineup due to its premium class), but it opens up a lot of new potential. I want.
So you expect MS to take a hit on the cost of adding Thunderbolt connectivity, which isn't just about the $50 licence fee per device but extra validation and build costs. As to cost of the Surface Pro, this is a premium device and the margins on it won't be as high as you think.
I've done tests with USB 3 and Thunderbolt hardware and to be frank the cost of Thunderbolt hardware compared to extra speed is just not worth it (if when the speed was appreciably better than USB 3). This is on a X99 motherboard with the Tbolt and USB 3 chips on the main PCIe bus so about as equal you can get.
Thunderbolt has lost the war against USB 3.1, it will be relegated to the same fate as FireWire. That's coming from someone that actually liked using FireWire. The main problem isn't just the costs of adding the extra complexity of the Thunderbolt circuitry but also the fact it's a very small market and doesn't fall into the target demographic. Also the cost of Tbolt peripherals carrry a higher premium and it's core advantage data transfer is easily negated with a properly configured SAN and hardwire ethernet fabric.
I hope Thunderbolt losses the war, if it hasn't already, just for the cost factor alone... I think it's ridiculous!
We're not talking about adding Thunderbolt 2, which is what you performed your tests with, though. We're talking about v3, which is supposed to double bandwidth and leapfrog ahead of USB 3. It could catch on now that it uses a Type-C connector and if Intel lowers implementation costs (which they may be able to do with the move to a connector that nearly every device already uses). We'll have to see.
Specs mean nothing to the consumer out-with Pro's, it's cold hard cash. The reason for USBs ubiquity on the market is just down to how cheap it is to buy and use peripherals. It's the exact same reason that FireWire died, it priced itself out of a market apart from niche users like video editors.
To put it in perspective I gotten nearly 800mb/s read from a SSD over USB 3.1 and it does almost all than Tbolt does at a far cheaper price. The other aspect of USB 3.1 is that it's potentially capable of exceeding Tbolt 3.
My NAS which is using bonded pairs, can pull about 250Mb/s averaged to give you some perspective on the same type of data.
Type-C = 3.1
3.1 = type c
Type C =/ 3.1
Phones are coming out with type C connectors soon, but running only USB 2.0.
Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
Thunderbolt 3 uses the same port as USB Type-C (similar to how Thunderbolt 1 and 2 use a miniDisplayPort). It just allows for extra capability on top of what USB 3.1 Type-C can do. For example, for the first time ever, external GPUs are now officially supported by Intel via Thunderbolt 3. (It worked unofficially before, but now it is finally a sanctioned use). USB 3.1 type-C is great, but it doesn't give the direct PCIe lanes needed for that. Personally, an ideal device for me would have a 3.5mm headset jack, two 'standard' 3.1 type-C ports, and a third that is capable of Thunderbolt 3.
The option of an external GPU on the next Surface would be amazing. Probably not what the majority of the target market would want, but could be good even for business users wanting to dock and power multiple 4K monitors as they become more widespread
Thats only if they ship the matching chipset
Thunderbolt is not very feasible on mobile devices because it will require too much PCI bandwidth which cannot really be shared.
Microsoft will probably never include Thunderbolt or Firewire (IEEE 1394) in any of their own devices, and for very good reasons.
While I do personally like the performances of both of these interfaces, they come at a huge security cost. They are based on interfaces that were originally designed for internal connectivity, SCSI and PCI-e, and as many internal data interfaces, they benefit from direct memory access.
Direct memory access lets these devices transfer data directly with the RAM of the computer without going through the CPU, which is a great thing for network cards, graphic cards, storage controllers, etc. However, accessing memory without going through the CPU also means it bypasses any security feature the OS could try to impose to keep the integrity of the system and data used by applications private.
When you connect a USB device, all data goes through the driver, and as long as the driver can be trusted, the device cannot read any system or application data, leaving the OS in charge of controlling access to physical memory depending on its security configuration.
When you connect a Firewire or Thunderbolt device, just like when you connect a device to an internal interface, the firmware of that device can literally take over the low-level communication buses of your computer to go read and write directly in any location of physical memory without the OS approval.
Think about it for a second, you plug in an external disk, graphic card, hub, dongle, anything to any of these ports, and if the device contains a malicious firmware, it can bypass your OS to go steal or change the data of the kernel, drivers and apps directly in RAM.
This is why while I like these ports for their performance benefits they gain mostly thanks to direct memory access, I also recommend to always physically disable these ports and enable them manually only when you completely trust the device you want to connect. Otherwise you are leaving your mobile device completely open to anyone walking by with a Firewire or Thunderbolt dongle, or even to friends and coworkers who do not know the firmware of their nice high-speed external hard disk has been tempered with.
Microsoft’s policy is to limit external ports to interfaces that cannot bypass the OS security, and this is in fact the right choice considering the steps required by the user to keep their system secure with DMA-enabled external interfaces.
We might see support coming if they can extend Secure Boot to support hot-swap and to not only check the firmware of expansion cards, but also check the firmware of any device connected to Thunderbolt after boot. Until such security can be enforced, don’t expect any Microsoft device to expose such a port for external connectivity.
Give me TB, an eGPU and I'm in.
I'd love eGPU support. It would completely replace my desktop for gaming.
Not with that processor - it's meant for professional use without getting hot... But if they can make a dock with a CPU like i7 5675c(it has a really good igpu) in NUC form factor and let us wire all the inputs of the sp4 like ssd, display, camera, touch controller,etc to the dock via thunderbolt, then we have a winner!!! But I guess the market for it is meagre.
Sad. Sp4 should have been a flagship launched alongside of Win10 next week
Look, you either wait and get Skylake or take a year old Broadwell and get it now. I prefer the later.
Windows 10 is launching through the year: PC, Phone, HoloLens, Band 2, Xbox One....we have time, no need to be day 1 on everything even if it were nice.
Do you think they will release a Surface Pro 4, or just a refresh of the SP3 range?
Seems like releasing a SP4 will possibly make the Surface 3 appear artificially old in the eyes of consumers.
I've got a SP3 which won't be replaced for another 6 months to a year, but the newer CPU will be a nice change if it runs cooler.
An (mobile) i7, 512GB SSD and 8GB of Ram in a device as sleek as the SP3 is still an awesome feat even if it does run a little hot at times...but what else can people expect. Every now and again it reminds me how far we've came in mobile computers
don't you mean former?
He said "later", not "latter"
+41% igpu performance = best part of the leak... And to add more fun -it supports directx 12 at feature level 12. Btw skylake brings a looooot - wireless charging , wifi 802.11ad, ddr4, thunderbolt 3.0. And yeah windows hello. Just hope they put the U variants and not the fanless variants as they are considerably less powerful, can be used to replace the i3 tho, but leave i5 and i7 as it is!!. Makes perfect sense to wait and launch sp4 with skylake.
I think they should name the next Lumias Lumia ACE and Lumia ACE XL... The name can easily represent a flagship and correlate with surf-ace. And probably launch surface pro 4 along with the Lumia's and show how you can have a continuous workflow with them.
@manueljenkin, I must admit this is the best name I've seen suggested. I like it!!! Plus "Ace" just sounds like a winner! It would certainly get my vote.
Awful name.
Samsung Galaxy Ace (horrible little series of phones)
if they can make a dock with a CPU like i7 5675c(it has a really good igpu) in NUC form factor and let us wire all the inputs of the sp4 like ssd, display, camera, touch controller,etc to the dock via thunderbolt, then we have a huuge winner!!! But I guess the market for it is meagre. I'm sure this won't happen with sp4 but is there any chance of this happening with sp5!!! Lol I'm being too futuristik.
Should have done the same with the mobile flagships.
Did you mean "prefer the latter" as in getting the Surface Pro 3, or "prefer the later" as in waiting for the SP4? I'm torn. I am still rockin the SP2, and was really hoping that the SP4 would release in August. I can wait longer, but wish I had more information (i.e. leaks) to tell me more about what I'm waiting for, so I can figure out if it's worth it.
MS can't afford to cut the legs out from under the OEM's like that. Give them the Win 10 launch and release the SP4 at a later date when the OEM's have had a chance to get their hardware out and in front of customers.
Agree. The Surface Pro was designed to be a premium reference device to show OEMs that the whole hybrid concept is not only feasible but can be incredibly beautiful and functional. Now that's been proven, they can continue the reference focus, but let the OEMs have the rest of the market.
The CPU isn't ready yet, can't force Intel to work faster.
They frankly need to get win10 up to speed with TH2 before SP4 hits the wild. The fluidity of tablet operation is a harsh regression from win8, and would not be received well.
It would and already will be received plenty well. There is nothing wrong with touch on windows 10. Use it everyday for it. And more apps than ever have touch integrated like the office suite.
So basically the surface 4 will become useless once temperature is greater than 75 degree or 50% humidty with no fans.
Did you not learn your lesson from the xbox 360, cooler is better aka xbox one with its huge fan.
Sp3 already runs hot and you want to go fanless
Need to sell my Surface 2 to use towards a new gaming desktop.
I've been telling everyone around me that I won't go from SP3 to SP4 but if Skylake is actually on the cards... hmmm!
Same here. I originally wasn't expect much from the Surface Pro 4, but Skylake could be huge.
Please make a 15" version
That would be ridiculous.
Though awesome too, especially seeing as I rarely hold my surface, it's always propped up with the stand.
Please, please, please!
I like the wireless charging note there. Gimme this and a Qi flagship phone .
I liked that too. I wonder how it would work on a surface though.
It will be Skylake and it will be out around YE
I will take 2 please. My Main is a Pro 3 i7, after running tests on it and my bosses i5, I will take the i5. Love to see and i5 with 16G of Ram though. :)
that is because the i7 throttles and hence any advantage it apparently has is gone.. Ip igpu is also comparable 4400 and 5000 have less than 5% difference in performance.
As long as it's not Core M I'll be happy :P
This!! But core m can replace i3.
Yeah but Core M fits better with a lower category of mobile PCs. Well maybe they can replace just the i3 variant with Core M but it might actually cost more than a 6th gen i3 Y or U series.
The i5 and i7 variants definitely have to stay with the skylake U series. It's just perfect balance between power and energy consumption
Surface Pro 4 + accesories: $1,600
Cityman + accesories: $1,100
Band 2: $200
...I'll be broke before Christmas! :-\ but probably happy :-)
Don't forget the HoloLens (I'd guess it to be $1500).
Any high end phone from Samsung or Apple costs $1100 or more but that is on the devices with 128GB of storage, from what I heard , Microsoft's phones will have 32GB so they could possibly cost about $900. Perhaps Talkman will cost $700 and Cityman $850 without the Pen and $900 with the Pen.
Also, I would like Microsoft to sell 64GB and perhaps 128GB models too. $1000 the 950XL model with 64GB and $1100 the 950XL model with 128GB.
Remember that compared to iPhone and Galaxy, these Lumias have:
- More expensive camera hw: Zeiss optics, sensors, etc.
- Continuum chip
- Windows Hello sensors and perhaps dedicated IC
- USB type C and associated I/O chips
- 3 GB RAM vs 1 GBin the iPhone
So while less storage, I don't expect the Lumias to be any lower in price than iPhone and Galaxy, if anything they can justify a higher price point.cityman will probably be $1,000 like the latest Galaxy Note.
What?! :) For example - why should be camera HW more expensive? Result is comparable to Samsung flagships. Galaxy S6 has new, much faster memory...developement doesnt seems to be cheap, S6 has more sensors than l930 and I don't expect brutal change in case of (possible) l950....etc...etc..
You forgot these points- fm, sd slot, file manager, removable battery, file sharing via Bluetooth, so on...
They really don't need the expensive built in memory since they both are supposed to have SD capabilities. 32 GB for OS and functionality should be plenty, then infinite amount for media etc.
I'll upgrade my 3 when the 5 comes out.
Makes sense. I plan to buy the Surface Pro 4 to replace my SP2. Well, not replace, add to.
CPU increase is pretty low but graphics upgrade is wow for a thin laptop.
I wish there would have been skylake processors back when windows 8 was around...
Why? Skylake with widows 10 will be even more incredible with how incredible windows 10 is.
Don't be the next generation crying about how bad the new windows is. You adapted to 8, why not try adapting to 10 and all of its amazing improvments over 8. :)
Surface Mini - Atom X5 or X7
Surface 4 - Skylake Core M
Surface Pro 4 - Skylake Core i5 or i7
That would be perfect
Surface mini would need core m as well.
Hopefully by next year the Core M will have cheaper options. The Surface 4 would have to be priced much higher than now with the Atom x7
This will not bring much attention or profits unless its made Global Product.... I need a surface pro 3/4 but cant import bcoz of high tax and none of my relatives and friends are there in U.S
It will still get lots of profit non global like it is doing now haha, you just want it. But don't say it won't get a huge profit if it isn't global.
The high tax will still be applicable when Microsoft brings it, the only thing you will be getting is warranty.
It's all would, could, and should.
Please Please Please let this drive a 4K external monitor at 60Hz. Not for gaming mind you, just for productivity.
I'm pretty sure the Atom Z series processors can drive a 4k monitor at that resolution! So that'll be bread and butter for a far more modern Surface
SP4, Phone, Band, and HaloLens - holy cow man!! MS is really gonna kick my checking account's arse!
That's fantastic, the new Surface should be around the time of the release of the premium Windows 10 mobile device at the same time I plan to capture me a Surface tablet.
Someone pls help me out. I have installed win 10 on pc via iso and the screen looks cropped on both sides and its displaying 70% on the screen and remaining 15 on left n right are empty spaces. Please help me out on how to make the resolution to full screen occupancy. Please help me
Install your display drivers.
please make it available in india for 1lakh with type cover + pen + docking station + 1tb hdd :)
The biggest upgrade the Surface Pro lineup could ever get would be a fanless design, while still maintaining the power that it needs.
I keep seeing this everywhere, and I have to disagree. I don't see how you can ever keep a full power processor in a fanless design. It is a pipe dream to think any modern chip, even the untested SkyLake, can run fanless without under clocking or other throttling gimics, down from its full potential. A possible compromise would be something similar to what Lenovo tried in the recent past with the fan system built in the docking station for full power in desktop replacement mode, but substantial throttling in "fanless" mode away from the dock. Still have my doubts even about that compromise.
Don't get me wrong, I hate whirring fans (I HATE it when my SPro 3/i7 winds up running Chrome), but I won't sacrifice power for that.
October is the earliest possible release date for the surface pro 4
the microsoft outlook for the july-october revenue is just 2-2.1 billion $
last quarter, when the sp3 released on June 20th, they made 2.45 billion $
also the xbox revenue should be a bigger part this time because of halo and gears remaster. xbox biggest franchises
Atleast Surface Pro successor is tipped to be released with top of the line Chipset generation unlike Lumia flagships. Oh well, let's hope Windows 10 mobile starts doing better in a market somehow to catch the attention of top chip makers and OEMs. Wishful thinking I know. And feel happy for Surface Pro 4. Microsoft has nailed the perfect formulae for it. No other device in market come even close to it. May the for(ce)th be with Surface Pro.
Also, would love it if they could include some dedicated nvidia or AMD GPU options with it. Would be such a powerhorse for gaming and imaging/filming processing professionals.
One got a sp3 - great device but I'll jump on a sp4 if the ssd is accessible: I've picked up a bunch of the Dell venue 11 pro 7000's and the ability to swap out the drives and replace batteries and the wireless components, well that's brilliant! I'd love to be able to comfort my own drives - and 16 gb ram wouldn't go amiss!
Awesome. It's good to see Intel still making gains in performance without much threat from AMD. I hope AMD can compete in the performance market again soon though!
The Surface Pro 4 with this chip is the one Im holding out for.
Don't care about the CPU since they're powerful enough, just the GPU that are so terrible that I never bother with these things, iPad Air 2 probably has more graphical prowess.