New data claims Windows 8.1 lost OS market share for first time since launch

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The latest operating system numbers from research firm Net Applications show that Windows 8.1 actually lost a tiny amount of its worldwide market share in July 2014. This is the first time this has happened since Microsoft officially released the revamped version of Windows 8 in October 2013.

According to Net Applications' data, based on stats generated by unique visitors to its websites, Windows 8.1's market share went down from 6.61 percent in June to 6.56 percent in July. Windows 8 also went down from 5.93 percent to 5.92 percent. The combined share for Windows 8 and 8.1 was calculated to be 12.48 percent in July, down from 12.54 percent.

While the changes in share are admittedly tiny, it does seem that Microsoft's efforts to improve Windows 8 with the 8.1 update, and thus have the OS gain more acceptance, have not been as successful at the company hopes, in terms of new PC sales. Microsoft has already announced that cheaper Windows tablets and notebooks are planned for release this fall which could help boost Windows 8.1's share in the short term. Microsoft is already working on the next major version of Windows, code named Threshold, which is rumored for a launch sometime in the spring of 2015.

In the meantime, Windows 7 still dominates, with Net Applications showing that it was installed on 51.22 percent of PCs worldwide in July, up from 50.55 percent in June. Windows XP, which is no longer being supported by Microsoft, went down to 24.82 percent in July, compared to 25.31 percent in June.

What do you think of these latest numbers?

Source: Net Applications


Reader comments

New data claims Windows 8.1 lost OS market share for first time since launch



That's because it is great, and it's been great since 8.0... but people are ignorant. It's only faster, more stable and full of new software thanks to the Windows Store... and the "Timex watches" of the teach community can just install classic shell for free if they want that slow old start menu back.

And there's so much video proof on YouTube now that it works well without a touch screen that people should get publicly humiliated for saying it doesn't work well on desktops.

Mouse and keyboard users probably should be more catered to though. I love Windows 8 but that said I use my phone more than the tablet (well, the Lumia 1520 is a phablet after all).

"Mouse and keyboard users probably should be more catered...".

Really, what does this mean? I read statements like this many times but I just don't get it. I only use a mouse and keyboard with 8.x with zero issues. I must be missing something but for the life of me I have no idea what issue is using a keyboard and mouse.

I'm personally fine the way it is, but "the regular user" (aka. people at my work who aren't tech savvy) struggle with it. I feel Windows without touch screens should be like Windows 7 but with all the options you be used our the tablets out there.... where as soon as a touch screen it's detected..... WHAM! Start screen.

What you said sounds so obvious but people tend to make things more complicated than they should. On my desktop computer working on 2d cad and 3d modeling software, windows 8.1 is a great and stable os but the user interface is not helping with the productivity, while on my surface the whole touch experience is super.

"pople tend to make things more complicated than they should"

....you nailed the key concept right there. When people speak of how they get frustrated trying to teach Windows 8 to a less tech savvy crowd, that actually speaks negatively towards their teaching ability because it's FAR easier to teach a user who isn't tech savvy how to just navigate between their useful content through a couple tiles, hit the Start button when they want to go "home" and use only the Metro interface.

I work with hundreds of users a day, many of which - yes - come with their predispositions about Windows 8. Doesn't take but two minutes if even that for AN EFFECTIVE teacher to get someone up to speed.

Obviously I don't mean that windows 8.1 has a more complicate user interface than window 7 desktop, they could just release the core os for touch devices like it is right now and another option the windows 8.1 core os with a windows 7 user interface. For a work computer producing professional stuff the metro etc interface is unnecessary and doesn't add anything to a users experience. Sure I can live with it, I can ignore or disable things that I dont want but still the windows 7 interface for professional work is better.

There's actually quite a lot that the metro interface offers for the business user... but I've already addressed that twice in this article so I'll hold off on that.


...what is worth mentioning though is that Microsoft is listening. Even though the metro interface has a lot to offer business and desktop users, they hear that the preference is towards the desktop environment. You'll notice new desktops and laptops (and computers upgrading) boot straight to the desktop.

I believe the new upcoming version (Threshold) of the OS will interact differently on tablets, desktops, laptops, depending if it's touch screen or not.  But here's the deal.  I NEVER liked Windows 7.  It was a God sent when 8.x came along.  I hate (and I do mean hate) the menu affect in Win 7.  So, yes I do understand how some may feel about 8.x.  :)  I have everything that I use on a regular basis on my Win 7 computer in the task bar or desk top.  I don't use the Start menu.  And that's the beauty of Win 8.x.  Everything I use is nicely put on my start screen.  And lastly, it's not like the original desktop look is gone.  Just utilize the desktop mode if that's how one would like to work.  I just love the live tiles.  There's nothing that compares.  I like getting quick information just by looking at the screen (aka tiles).  I just hope Microsoft doesn't ruin 8.x when they release 9.0 (aka Threshold) to pacify those who won't or are unwilling to learn the current iteration of the OS.

What would make sense is that if in Threshold it ran you through a super simple one or two step customization where it asks if you want to use the start screen or desktop as default, etc.

BUT there's so many people when faced with options that just want to Cancel, press a little cross to get out of it, or just - whatever, whatever, whatever and then be frustrated with their setting with no clue how to go back.

Some people it doesn't matter how idiot proof it's made, they just wont try. With websites always being the latest version, can't choose to upgrade, it's just always updated.... that people would be more familiar with change.... Or not :|

And most of the non tech savvy people think they hate it because that is what their expert tech friends say that still running XP.

How tech savvy can someone be to prefer that? MAYBE back when Vista came out there might have been a case for that......

But it's the same with Windows Phone, some people have it in their head that (wait for it)... Android is an easier interface and Window Phone is too complicated...... they don't want to see.

The desktop it's much the same and here's how you pin........ and they've switched off already. I gave my sister a Windows Phone and she doesn't know how to download apps.... so I explain the Microsoft account..... she just didn't get it even though my dad did it easy. Some people switch off regardless of how easy something is.

it's just a different app launcher. how much productivity loss could you possibly have with a new app launcher? i know i usually launch my most used apps at the beginning of the day and hardly ever go to the start menu. windows 8 actually makes it easier to organize my most used apps on the start screen. otherwise, the desktop is mostly unchanged from windows 7. the only other change is the charms menu. how often do you really need to use that? Most regular users don't really need to touch it. the only function regular users need is the shut down function and that function was added to the start screen and a right click to the start button with 8.1.

Same here. I use mouse / keyboard only on Windows 8.1 and it's great! Don't understand what people are having difficulties with... It's a lot better than Windows 7. Windows 7 feels like a pig compared to Windows 8.

Absolutely correct. Windows 8.1 is the most keyboard/mouse friendly version of Windows ever. It couldn't be more keyboard/mouse friendly.

I can't believe there are people who stil don't accept that Windows 8 is a bad product and a failure for business desktop users.   Many of us have been saying it from the beginning. Its not been an opinion, its been based on emperical evidence from our interaction and experience selling and supporting the business community.  


Now you see the installed base actually DROPPING after a year and a half.   Conclusion: The more people get to know it, the more they hate it.   Many supporters kept saying that once they get used to it they will like it.   So much for that theory.


Windows 9 sounds like the product that should have been released as Windows 8.  A true seemless merging of the touchscreen and mouse/keyboard world.   It can't come fast enough.   I'm disappointed to hear it's not coming out as a Win8 update this year.

Hearing the crickets myself. Hope MS delivers Windows 9 for free only makes since so they can stop updating Windows 8. Make the update mandatory saves them money and gives us the operating system we should have been given in the first place.

"I can't believe there are people who stil don't accept that Windows 8 is a bad product and a failure for business desktop users."

You can't believe that there are people in the sea of stupid that actually know what they're talking about? We ain't the only ones... for every tech blog you see trying their damndest to down Windows 8, you can read into the comments and see them getting slammed by people who know what they're talking about.

Unfortunately, the blind will always let themselves be led by the dumb...

Sorry my friend.  That was always the comeback argument when people like me said this was heading over a cliff.   Fact is, it doesn't matter what you think.  Doesn't matter what I think either.  All that matters is what the buying public (in mass) think.   

This is not a work of art to be appreciated by only the enlighted few LOL.   This is a business!   If it doesn't sell, then its a failure.  Period.


EDIT:  By the way, I like the style on my L920 and also my Surface 2, but as a software developer at my PC for 10 hours a day, I can honestly say the tile side just gets in my way and I go over there just to search for programs.   If it disappeared tomorrow I wouldn't even miss it (on my PC)

Actually, if we were to assess the totally banal tradition of typical comebacks the spotlight would be on you for trying to scapegoat to sales when it becomes clear that "the masses" can be numerous and wrong at the same time... as you may recall, that's the point of my 'world is flat' analogy.

But lets just humor the thought... because one bit of information that we always see skipped over is that Windows 8 being only 40m behind in sales is actually amazing considering that the casual crowd transitioned into a much more popular and stylish trend of low-cost tablets.

Sales speak for good marketing tactics, not quality products.

Funny you would use that analogy because at this point I would say people still defending this product are the "flat earthers".   All the evidence is in.  Accept it.  The world is round and Windows 8, with it's half baked integration of the desktop and tile interfaces, was a mistake.  


It seems this Threshold version is what WIn 8 should have been.   I'm anticipating WIn 9 is going to be a big success

What "evidence"? Do you mean the hive-minded, slack jawed idiots on message boards who try to pass theselves off as some sort of analyst, while trying to act as though they adequately speak for or represent the "buying pubic"...?

Spare us the insults and naming calling, you limp wrist faget.   See?  I can do it too.  I can insult you without even knowing you.  Accomplishes nothing.  My apologies to anyone who may have been offended by that comment.  Just making a point.


Evidence?  I refer you to the sales numbers this article is about.  Explain it away to us idiots.  Or maybe there are just so many of us idiots in the world that we just don't get the briliance of MSFT's decision to abandon the start menu on the desktop side.  Maybe that's it.  Maybe you're so brillant that you operate on a higher plane of conciousness than the majority of Windows buying customers.

The start menu sucked. That's why they abandoned it. They just underestimated how whiny people would be about it. They're bringing it back so they can shut up and Microsoft can get on with developing Windows. 

OK Pete.  So its the customers fault Windows 8 isn't selling.  The customer just doesn't know what they want.   Microsoft should reluctantly give it to them in Windows 9 just to shut up their whining. :)


My friend, that's ridiculous.  I will assume you are just very young and have not had to make a living on your own yet selling services for yourself or an employer.  

Dude I have been in this battle. There is no way they accept Windows 8 is half baked. Just give up.

Eventually I always try to ask them one thing: describe a "broken" Operating System. They can't. There is nothing Microsoft makes that these people consider "bad".

In the days of Windows Vista, they would have defended it. They would have defended Windows Me too. They defend any "latest" OS Microsoft makes and the funnier thing is they accuse professional software developers and techncians of being "stupid" or "ignorant" or "set in their ways".

I mean you have a comment like "Windows 8.1 is the most keyboard/mouse friendly version of Windows ever. It couldn't be more keyboard/mouse friendly."

See? "The most keyboard/mouse friendly version of windows ever". It's like he is talking about his religion. There is no arguing with that.

I actually created a list of 10+ points where Windows 8 violates rules of good UI and posted it numerous times, they don't budge. They can't answer, but won't budge either. So no matter what you show them: professional analysis of issues, market share, etc. they "don't understand why people object to Windows 8, it's the best OS ever made".

I hear you ATG.   I realizeit's difficult to admit the emperor has no clothes.  I also realize I am probably a lot older and more experienced that 90% of the people on here.   That gives me an unfair advantage because I have a broader perspective on all this which is more pragmatic and business related.   You may be in the same situation. 

I'm not trying to be mean, but when others start insulting me rather than debate the argument on the facts, I have to lash back.  It doesn't matter that 90% of the people on here treat sites like this as an alter to some sort of religiious experience.   We should have a right to share our real world experience and perspective without attacks.  

It all seems like a waste of time, but I keep responding for two reasons.  One, it's kind of fun (I hate to admit) and its a distraction to break away from "the real world" happening in another window at the same time on my desktop.   But, two, I hope to snap some of these guys out of the trance  they seem to be in, so they can start demanding more from this company. 


Pretending all is well doesn't help the cause they evidently support so feverishly.  Ironically, MSFT would be better off if the core supporters gave them more objective feedback.

I'm a software engineer myself and I don't see any productivity loss over the 2 years using win8. Would you care to elaborate? If not, you are just another one of those whinners.

You're not reading my comments or getting my point BTTF.  


I am not arguing for myself.  I have been using W8x since it came out.  I'm fine without the menu.  The point of this discussion is about the rest of the world.   Not you or me. 


You know, the middle aged legal secretary in Cleveland Ohio that could give a crap less about Windows and just sees it as a tool like a carpenter sees a hammer.   For an older middle aged carpenter who has been swinging that same hammer for 40 years, if a new design causes ANY frustration or doesn't work like the last hammer, he will not buy it.   No sense arguing with him this design is a better hammer.   Just make the old hammer for people used to it and make a new hammer design for the young who can/want to learn new things.     You sell old AND new hammers and make more money.   Everyone's happy


Can none of you guys on here GET that concept?   Are you all so blind to such an obvious point even after all the evidence has proven it?  


It's not hard to imagine a teenager not getting it.  But how could Microsoft have missed that?  It illustrates a scarry flaw in the leadership over there. 

Wow... that's a whole lotta fail packed into one post.
First off, your premise is based on both assumptions and exaggerations.
We simply note the oversights that the masses have made when assessing how well it functions with mouse/keyboard... as well as the flaw in thinking it has nothing to offer for businesses. As someone who's been knee deep in code and professionally working with PC buyers for 14 years, the Metro interface is infinitely easier to teach people who aren't tech savvy... at the same time though, Windows 8's unification and greatly heightened security should appeal to businesses given that they don't let common ignorance steer them away from making smart decisions.
...and for those idiotic few who want to treat W8 preference as some heretic ritual... some effective research will teach you that NFL is far from the only major company that's stepping up to Windows 8.
Also, the same people defending this aren't the ones sticking up for Vista. Windows Vista had clear systematic problems that kept it from functioning as an operating system should... Windows 8's all of a faster, more secure, more resource efficient and more stable operating system with more options that any truly knowledgeable user can appreciate... they've just got a lot of bad in the grapevine that Microsoft isn't doing anything about.

I can't speak to BackToTheFutures comments, but you continue to miss the point.   You are trying to argue an inarguable point.  It's like arguing which is better, vanilla or chocolate.  You can't make an argument for either.  it's personal choice.


But what you CAN argue, is whether it is smart (as an ice cream store) to decide vanilla is not good, and stop selling it.   Don't pick a side.  Just sell both.   Everyone is happy and you make more money.


Making Windows 8 support both worlds was clearly necessary.  Hell, even their own Office product still doesn't work on the Metro side yet (although they found time to develop an iPad version - that's interesting).   But Microsoft should have never messed with the desktop side of Windows and left it exactly the same as Windows 7.  


They made a mistake.  The facts of sales prove it.  The backlash proves it.   How can you and others still defend that awful decision?   The few of you who are left still defending this may need some therapy.   I'm serious.



Half a minute of checking boxes can make Windows 8 have that familiarly people think they're missing... but that relation didn't work because strawberry doesn't have the components to be chocolate. This is pretty flawed logic, bro... even that proverbial teenager you attack could figure that out.

That's just not true.  Why would you say that when you know it's false.  You cannot check a box to get the start menu back.   There is a cottage industry that has developed to do that, but the average Windows customer isn't sophisticated enough to even realize that.  They just turn it on and whatever they see they use.   Plus, most businesses with an IT Dept are reluctant to use products that amount to a hack so they tend to avoid it.    


Result: Most corporations are just buying Windws 7 for the businesses rather than Windows 8.  That's really what is driving all the Windows 7 sales causing its market share to actually rise and WIn8 to fall.   It's not the retail consumer.  You can't even buy a PC with WIndows 7 anymore from a store.


Remember, this debate is NOT about whether the "Modern UI" is a good design".  Who cares what your or I think about that.  This is about whether removing the start menu from the DESKTOP side was a good idea.   I assert the evidence shows that it was not a good idea.   Microsoft obviously realizes it now also and are bringing it back.   Anyone in August 2014 who still cannot accept that, needs to seriously seek help.  They may have a borderline personality disorder such as narcissism.


Narcissism is a good disorder to bring up here... especially when a superiority complex has a particular person acting as the sole divine knowledge graced upon this sea of heretic cart pushers and McDonalds cooks that fit into the archetype forming the 90% he's just simply more experienced than.

The vanity is on your end, good sir.

(And since the gauntlet has been cast to start the game of dick measuring, it's worth mentioning that I write the code for both the central and affiliate websites as well as the company apps for a company in Hazelwood, MO and have a second job where I sell and repair computers for residential and business clients... goes without saying, but I deal with hundreds of people a week and that's where the basis for everything I say comes from).

While a checkbox doesn't return the start menu, that's not the aspect of familiarity I was talking of, so your assertion is not only putting words in my mouth, but an assumption. The navigation tab checkboxes certainly don't return the start menu everyone is used to seeing, but they effectively bury the start screen and have a start button that simply brings people to a hub where they can search and/or open something.

As far as the average consumer goes. I don't know if you follow eCommerce or the Travel Industry well enough to know this (I'll make an assumption of my own and say you haven't) but the consumer body isn't as dumb as you think. While the high download frequency of these alternative 3rd party start menu applications could've tipped you off on this fact, I've seen 'em as ghetto (and/or backwater) as they come that were still able to muster up the smarts for a 6MB install of Classic Shell.

BTW, who in the world has ever considered 3rd party start menus a "hack"? Since you clearly seem to not know this, there are schools and companies baking these third party start menus into their ROMs. Lenovo, HP and quite a few other OEMs have actually even been shipping out units pre-installed with Pokki for quite a while now.

Blah blah blah.  It's all noise.  In one breath you think the consumer is stupid, in the next they're not.   You keep skirting the primary argument, either because you are ignorant (I don't think so) or you just can't say the words. 


Question 1: Given the current facts as we know them, do you believe removing the Start Menu from the desktop was a good or bad idea?   


Question 2: If you believe it was a good idea then, what do you believe is the reason Windows 7 is still outselling Windows 8 more than 1 1/2 after it's release.   Explain your reasoning, provide facts.


Take your time.  No points taken off for grammer.


The Phases of Losing a Debate
Step 1: Random Ad-Hominem Attacks
Step 2: X-TREME! Ego Stroking
Step 3: Hilarious self-contradiction
Step 4: Plugging Fingers in Ears and saying "Lalala!"

I don't know why my "facts" are allegedly in question when you just said "businesses with an IT Dept are reluctant to use products that amount to a hack" in reference to third party start menus then promptly had that trampled with some of the largest companies with some of the largest IT depts baking the very thing you said they don't use right into their image. But I'm just humored enough to continue playing this game.

BTW; before I begin, It's worth noting that while you took an overall generalization of my statement, I only combatted your statement that the average consumer can't handle a 6MB install.

Response 1: As the serious vets may recall, there was controversy involving the program manager between Windows 3.0 and 95... now what people fussed about is a norm. The "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mindset is the type that assures that stagnance is the way to go. That kind of thought process put in the wrong hands could kill very important advances such as Stem Cell Research, and would have resulted in old coots having VHS live forever instead of moving on to better formats... hence why companies do risky, radical things to our mediums/standards. People will go ape****, piss and moan... then slowly, but gradually learn. We even see that in this article as every month until this one was a gain in marketshare.

Being in the industry, I'd hope you saw what happened to Kodak (or what's happening to Nintendo right now), and from that gathered exactly why Microsoft realized modernization is the only way to not get swept away if the fabled post-PC era analysts keep talking about actually happens. In a nutshell, yeah, I think it was a good idea... the other side of this coin is that (as we discussed yesterday) this idea was executed HORRIBLY on Microsoft's end as they created a superior way of doing things that they didn't teach people how to use.

Response 2: I kinda already covered this, but Windows 7 is still outselling 8 because Microsoft didn't give people the knowledge the need to appreciate what Windows 8 brings to the table. As for facts? Look at all the people who *think* Windows 8 has nothing substantial to offer to business customers, look at the people who take "Microsoft Account" as a way for Microsoft to spy on them instead of the integral piece that makes the Windows Store work, look at all the people who (prior to 8.1.1) didn't even know how to shut down their damn W8 computer, look at all the people who don't know about compatibility mode; therefore don't know their old software still works... and look at how many people have no idea just how usable the "modern" interface can be even for users with no touch screen. All these instances speak volumes as to what can make a good product have poor adoption.

Now we've shared some snarky, mean remarks back and forth... but we've also established that my key point is one you agree with.

The grapevine is a powerful, powerful thing... and Microsoft's learned nothing from Apple about controlling the grapevine with good PR. If they time an effective ad campaign just right (as in, the time when $199 laptops and $99 tablets hit stores) then they can turn this all around.

Again, I hope they're reading.

So let me summarize what you said because it was a lot of words


Question 1: Yes you believe removing the Startmenu "was a good idea".  The problem is that the rollout was "executed HORRIBLY" by Microsoft, thus causing people to not realize the "superior way of doing things" with the Start Screen instead of the Start Menu for the desktop tasks.


Question 2: Windows 7 is outselling Win 8 because, as stated above, Microsoft didn't provide the training, which would have given them the knowledge, to "appreciate what Windows 8 brings to the table" for the desktop user.


So basically you are saying that removing the Start Menu is not the root of the problem, and you are still correct.  The real problem is some varying degrees of ignorance by Microsoft and all the user in the world who just fail to see the superiority of the product for desktop users


Hear what you said, phrased with my words.   I'm pretty sure I summarized it correctly.  


If so, let me summarize it even more for you.  You are saying there is nothing wrong with removing the Start Menu.  Instead it was EVERYONE elses fault for being ignorant to its superiority.   And YOU see that superiority because you are somehow better more intelligent, and/or received better training.


And you don't think you are narcissistic?   Dude, if that answer is legit and you are not just messing with us now, then please make an appt to see a doctor.


Fact is, you do not operate at some higher level of conciousness than the rest of us.  You are not enlightened and see things the rest are missing.  No matter what the reason for making a decision, the customer is correct. Microsoft did plenty of marketing.   People are not that stupid.  


On the flip side, I (and most reasonable people) would think it through something more like this:

1) if I don't sell my new product better/faster than the last version, then they must not like it as much. 

2) If they don't like it as much, then it must not be as good for them.  

3) If it s not as good for them, then I must have made a mistake and better rethink this.


There's really no further analysis needed.  This isn't that complicated to draw a reasonable conclusion and move forward with corrective action.   But for some reason, you don't see that.   The customer just needs more training.


Hey, wouldn't be the first time I've been called loquacious... but that's besides the point.

The verdict's in, and I got bad news for ya... your summary and your assertion were wrong again.

First off, I never claimed to be on some other landscape of understanding... as you may recall, that was actually you boasting your superiority over people, and you that's far more guilty of this narcissism claim so you desperately want to pawn off on me (there's a word for that... ah, right - projection!).

I never even claimed to have any professional teaching above than what I learned from field experience and reseaching the OS, nor do I claim exclusive knowledge. I'm very aware I'm not the first, the hundredth or within the ten-thousandth to know the things I know because there's like-minded people in droves here that could likely even teach me things I don't know about Windows 8... the thing is; I don't expect people to go through what I did to learn the OS, and I shouldn't be answering the same ten-ish basic operational questions I get asked hundreds of times a week by my clients - Microsoft made it, and Microsoft released it - which is why they should have been far more proactive about teaching people how to use it because if they had even done as little as baked a 2 minute introduction video in (and asked people whether they wanted to view it or not when they perform the initial setup) there would be substantially less confusion.

Another concept worth correcting you on is the fact that they did "plenty of marketing" because it notes a quantity without any assessment of quality. Microsoft spent somewhere in the neighborhood of $2bil on ad campaigns... does that mean it was effective? No. The dollar amount spent has no correlation with effectiveness of the ads if they're no good.

The last mistake I'll call you on for now was assuming I don't put this entirely on Microsoft's shoulders. The consumer is not ignorant because they weren't given anything to ignore (sans a "Help & Tips" app that; while somewhat helpful, is easy to pass over). A better word would be oblivious - and they have every right to be so as Microsoft made little attempt to make them otherwise.

If you are going to insult someone, at least spell correctly, otherwise the insult is yours. Btw...it's faggot not faget.

Faggot is hardly a word I spell out in a sentence every day.   I hardly feel "insulted" because I misspelled it.  But thanks for letting me know how to spell it my friend.. 

While you may not know of it, there actually is value in business for metro apps. You greatly underestimate the value of a system that works on an easily unfied account.

For example, just last week I was assigned to a cite where I was to create a network of computers that can easily access the same software and the same databases. Since they followed my suggestion to go with Windows 8 instead of Windows 7, they were able to simply sign in with the same account on all computers, go to the Windows Store and have their company apps available to everyone within the account without having to buy multiple licenses of the same software... and when they asked how they would share a database of modified files, the answer was a very simple OneDrive - which was already set up because of the company Microsoft account. I even got to learn some things about restrictions that put administrative users in power.

The equivalent on a system running W7 or any previous version of Windows would not have the equivalent setup with that level of ease, control or cost efficiency.

You don't have to convince me.  I use all the features of WIn8.1 as well.  I develop software and sell it to the business world all day long.  I try and convince people to upgrade to WIn8x whenever I can because it makes deployment of our software easier.  But I'm here to tell you.   They ain't buying it!!!   It's a big fail.   


MSFT needs to get Threshold here yesterday so people can feel comfortable again with what THEYARE USED TO.   With that, then MSFT can slowly introduce them and transition them to the new world.   But the customer can do it on their own time and at their own pace.  


That's how you evolve a product and bring your customers along with you.   What MSFT did was a mistake they teach you to avoid in Business 101 in college.

Microsoft already allowed people to be comfortable what they're used to when 8.1 was released... and even moreso with 8.1.1

The problem is that Microsoft did nothing to eliminate the stigma against everything bearing "Windows 8" in the title.

You can beat that drum all day. The corporate world is buying Windows 7, these numbers show it. They don't want to spend money on a operating system where there will need to be new training. In the long term it's not cost productive.

The point that you and your (sole) partner-in-crime here are missing is that no training has to be required.

Users that simply want to reap the benefits of a faster, more stable, more resource-efficient and more secure operating system can do so without even ever seeing the new interface (which btw, requires all of 3 minutes of learning with an effective teacher).

Refer to the sales numbers.   Doesn't sound like Jim and I are the only ones my friend.


Listen, I understand that Dan's wonderful site, and many other sites like this (be it for cars, guitars, etc.) serve two purposes and have two types of people here;

1) The fanboy who is here to feel good and share their experiences with other likeminded people

2) Business people that are trying to keep in touch with the product and the people who use it so they can make better decisions for making money.


I am the later.  I am not here to ruin your day, but I just call'em like I see'em.   I'm not here to convince you of anything.   I do it because I am what my wife calls an "over engager" who likes to debate.  Also, I hope MSFT reads some of this stuff.



And that's a part I'd have to agree with you on... it is my one true hope that someone in Microsoft's PR team is taking notes so they can stop with the stupid-ass dancing Surface commercials and starting taking notes from Apple's book.


All it takes is a couple well-constructed commercials that attack people's dispositions about Windows 8 in a clever, funny way.

They can even play their crappy grapevine situation to their favor with 30 second quip involving (for example) a Windows 8 hater that heard W8 is too different, and a user on the opposite end who demonstrates the classic interface (or even compatibility mode, for the people paranoid that their old software won't work).

I mentioned this in another post but I wonder if MSFT has simply written it off by now.  The engineering side of MSFT made a big mistake. But maybe the marketing side is telling them to forget it because it's too expensive to change perceptions.   Instead come out with Windows 9 and sell it as a new product with the start menu back.  It will still be Windows 8 for the most part, but a different name makes a difference.


That's really all they did with Windows 7.   Windows 7 was basicaly Windows Vista Service Pack 3.   There was virtually nothing significantly different between the final maintenance release of Vista and the first release of 7.   Yet, everyone hated Vista and everyone generally liked 7.   


Human nature is funny.  Which is even more the reason what MSFT did was such a screw up.  They should have just let Win 7 continue for another 2 years on the desktop and released the tile metro interface only for tablets, or, as an addon to Windows 7.    Then when they had the integration fully thought out, introduce Windows 8 to much wow and excitement.


Oh well, hindsight is a wonderful thing

I agree.  What's even more stunning is we try to remind customers that Windows 7 enters extended support in December.  We try to tell them they are buying an old OS and to just go with 8.1.   We try to tell them it's not as bad as the original Win8 and they can avoid the tiles completely.


Doesn't matter.  The damage is done.  The word is out.   The publics impression of Win 8 was sealed in the first 6 months it was released before they could come out with 8.1.  

"I can't believe there are people who stil don't accept that Windows 8 is a bad product and a failure for business desktop users"


Get a clue before you open your mouth and certainly do not blindly parrot what some other d*mb***k is blabbing.. Also learn about what you can do deploying Windows in a business environment so your users see what YOU want them to see. You do know you can both disable start srcreen, force boot into Desktop AND have a star menu available by default right? You know anything on deployment of Windows in an enterprise environment?

I could say the same to you my friend.  Get a clue and listen to the customers before you open your mouth and certainly do not blindly parrot what some other d*mb**s is babbling.


To answer your question: Yes, I know all the tricks to customize my desktop experience with WIn 8.1.   I have become quite efficient with it now.  For that reason, I rarely go to the tile side for much of anything.   When I want to check the weather, news, etc., I just reach for my phone, or I go to the website in IE on the desktop.  I don't switch over to the Start Screen and click on Bing News, etc.  It's a waste of time and the "immersive" format prevents me from keeping an eye on what I am doing with work as I quickly browse the headlines.   

But again, doesn't matter what you or I think.  All that matters is the acceptance rate and sales.  Based on that, the argument is settled.  Windows 8 was a failure.  Now MSFT needs to move fast to fix it.  And fanboys need to stop defending it.



"Get a clue and listen to the customers" 

And now we reach the eple of this immaturity; the "fanboys" argument. Finding a thousand customers that don't even understand the Windows 8 they're judging is a trial far easier than the one person who does. That's like letting ten-thousand people who have no calulator convince the one person who does that the square root of 100 is 312.

It's cool though... nothing more needs to be said; ad-hominem attacks are the quickest admittal of defeat.

Keep telling yourself that if it somehow makes you feel better.   I just hope MSFT under Nadella are going to listen to the customer

Exactly. When you have an OS that is designed for the mass market the one thing that determines it's success (or failure) is it's performance in the mass market.

And Microsoft should know that.  maybe the engineers went crazy and never consulted sales or marketing :)


This isn't a new version of XBox targeting generally teens and 20 something gamers.   This is a product that is being used by a middle aged florist who owns a store in Erie, Pennsylvania, or a small legal firm in Orlando with 15 lawyers who really could give a shit less about the efficient use of "negative space" and the flat visual scheme of the new metro design. 


All most costemers know is this is a tool for them to get their job done.  And if this causes them to spend 1 second longer than before, they are going to hate it.


On the other hand, most of us on here see this as an end in itself and cum in our pants whenever MSFT releases an update to the platform.  


We ain't the average user.

i think u are oversimplying...there are alot more factors than 'people hate win8'.  everyone knows that enterprise is harder to change due to training costs and all....doesnt mean people hate it

Doesn't matter how you categorize it or what word you use.  It's not accepted, liked, preferred, desired, over Win 7.   And yes, there are many reasons.  All of which MSFT should have anticipated.

Good for you.  I preferr it too. 


I'm referring to the average PC buyer.   That's what this article seems to indicate quite clearly.  That is what this discussion is all about.  

Consider the possibility that you, and most of the people on here, are not the average Windows user.   If you accept that premise, you'll realize it doesn't matter what you, or the majority of WPC users, prefer.  As a total, people who visit WPC or WMPUser, etc, are like a pimple on an elephants ass compared to the total user base.     



Very true, our opinions aren't nearly as widespread. I think most of the dislike of Windows 8/8.1 comes more from word-of-mouth than firsthand usage though.

That's true also.  Preception is a hard thing to change once someone has it in their mind.   Thus, you don't introduce something that isn't done.  You don't get a second chance to make a first impression.  


Maybe that's why MSFT decided to move the start menu into Win9.  Forget WIn8.x.   Lick your wounds and introduce a new product next year.  Won't matter that Win9 is 99.9% just WIndows 8.1 Update 2 with a menu added back.  It will be MUCH easier to sell it than try to convince Win 8.x was made better.


That's just human nature.  Apple always seemed to get that.  MSFT never did.  Put your best foot forward right out of the gate.  Wow them with something exciting and they will come back for more.   Disappoint them and they will move on to other things.

I do alot of business on our, and I love the diversity. I like to save instant access files to the desktop, and have ready to use programs pinned on the start screen. And I don't have to have a cluttered taskbar. And there are so many apps that serve different functionalities. To say it is a failure for business is an overstatement. It just seems more diverse than previous offerings, which I think it's a great thing.
Not to mention, I am often going between my desktop and my touch tablet, and find the consistency in platforms awesome. You pick up one to the other with no transition time. Hopefully more people will open their eyes to the possibilities.

...and there were have the most ignorant comment of the lot. You know why people have issues with Windows 8? The same reason beef advertises itself as gluten-free... Because people are sheep, and the media is predisposed against Microsoft.

Humans do like to be told what to do BigData.  We like to do what others do.  We want to be with the crowd.   It's our nature.  

It's why you are probably on this site.  Because you want to get together with like minded people and talk about the great decision you made to get a WIndows Phone, and feel good about that decision.  It's also why admitting there are problems is so hard to discuss on a site like this.  It's not why most people come here.  They don't want to be associated with a bad decision.  They want to be with a winner.   This is raining on their parade.

So knowing that, why would Microsoft take away what everyone was comfortable with KNOWING the majority would not be able to handle it?   That it would generate bad press, and the negative momentum that would create, which they would not be able to stop.  It's stunning to me.

I wonder if 8.1.1 is being counted under "other" and thus throwing the numbers off... time to go dig in a bit into their numbers... hmmm... that's not it...
Well, at best we can say that maybe the marketshare has flatted out. NetMarketshare and similar stat providers use techniques that can be called an inexact science at best. For example, NetMarketShare puts IE usage (all versions combined) on desktop a bit north of 50%, while StatCounter pegs it around 20%. Like holy crap!

The way they get the numbers for these sorts of user numbers is inherently flawed anyway, considering they base them on website views by unique users . And considering its summer time and the fact that people like to take vacations, or, I don't know, go outside instead of be on the computer all day, I would say that could easily count for the temporary downturn in numbers of people using a desktop OS.

The fact that it is summertime should effect all the numbers more or less equally. They're talking share, not absolute numbers.

I completely like Windows 8.1, and no I don't use touch screen and no I don't find any problems with using a mouse. And neither I don't find start button so needed while you can do things much faster with new tools. COME ON!?

One of the most profound lectures I had in college was listening to my Macroeconomics professor talk about his ventures in Angola, trying to teach them new ways to avoid their crop disasters and help out their economy. He'd present all kinds of more efficient ways to arrange their farming so that there would be more fruition... and you know what they did?

...went back to doing what they were used to doing.

While that was extremely abridged, the overall lecture taught me a lot about human nature. Nine times out of ten, humankind will take familiarity over efficiency even if it hurts them in the long run. We see a lot of that with Windows 8. Yeah I have a Surface Pro, but I've also got a desktop PC (my custom built gaming rig) that has no touch input whatsoever... and I use Metro all the time simply because it's faster to get to things. It's not the labyrinth of menus I've been using since way back when, but it's better.

For those using mouse and keyboard, the Modern interface is horrendous.  It just gets in the way of trying to get things done.

Aside from that, the laptop I bought with Windows 8 is the most unstable computer I've ever owned.  It normally locks up after closing the lid, and no matter how many times I reinstall Windows to fix it, the problem always comes back, even with no other software installed.  I SO wish I could have gotten Windows 7 on this machine.

Dell won't replace it because after a reinstall it is fine for a while.  So in their minds it isn't a problem with the hardware so it isn't their responsibility.

I have literally spent days on the phone with them trying to get this resolved.  It works okay if they disable all of the power management features, but what good is a laptop if you have to shut it down every time you want to take it anywhere?

I work as a technology consultant at a very busy staples store. And everyone is all "blah blah blah I hate windows 8 it is horrible blah blah blah" yet they have never tried it. Its because they don't care to take the 5 minutes for us to show them its not awful or a big learning curve. Its just that heard from a friend of a friend that they didn't like it. It drives me mad

The problem is that amongst others mr Callaham is joining the bandwagon on spinning numbers to make WIN8.x look bad.Many 'journalists' anjoy the Apple trick of finding problems where there really arený.

The number of user running WIN* actually went UP, it's just the number of users with WIN7 went up more and the combined number seem to indicate that what happened is that more people switched from XP to 7 than to WIN8.x

No need to spend energy and time to update 8.1 when we will get a new Treshold (9) I like my 8.1, it's a great system, but understand those people who complain about it and doesn't like it.
Most old people and people who only use a PC for a minimum - with XP or 7 - they had big problems, and it's a lot of people globally.
It's the same about companies, it's a big and expensive change for them, before all employees find the way around in the Windows 8 system.
I'm sure it will be much more easy and interesting for everyone with Treshold, and people can choose.

Changes this small are akin to a rounding error. The headline's a bit sensational, IMO. And Windows 9 will probably be hugely popular while still having most of the things we like about Win8. So long term everything is good, I think.

Not really. If Windows 8 were successful we would expect to be seeing solid growth. Instead things are basically flat - not good, not good at all.

I can't use it as a Media Center since the only extender it supports is the 360. As far as I'm concerned they betrayed their most loyal fans with this decision.

You call this news? That small dip will disappear when folks start up shopping for back to school and will continue into the holidays. That's going to the extreme like fishing for salmon and hooking gold fish.

Yeah, it's a fad to hate Windows 8

There's even groups for the hate bandwagon "I hate Windows 8".

I've become used to calling it the new "world is flat," because that's the last time we've charted so many people being wrong about the same thing.

Drilling deep enough, the bottom reason could be that it is cool to hate Microsoft. It really is weird that in almost every tech website, they bash Microsoft. They have built up the picture that Windows is not safe, it's buggy as hell and no one likes it. And if you use it, you are idiot. None of this is true. Yes, sure, Microsoft could do things better in many aspects, but I don't understand the hate towards MS that many people have. MS has been and will be innovator in IT business. Some people are ignorant, some are sheeps, some really does not like Windows 8 for real. I sure like it. ;)

THat's starting to change.  I can only say that I have noticed trends seem to start in places like Reddit and Imgur and there is not only alot of Apple Hate going on there but some serious Windows Love, especially for Windows Phones....

The people that bash Windows for not being safe and being buggy oddly often seem to be the same people that refuse to upgrade from XP because it's so great. Go figure.

Ha, yep... the same crowd that lets Apple sell them underwhelming hardware setups for $1399 because someone in the grapevine told them MacOSX never gets infected.

A lot of them haven't even tried it... I only know this because my job exposes me to hundreds of people every day that come in saying the same things. It's never what they "experienced" it's what they "heard" from sources that are typically misinformed.

...when dealing with the Windows 8 hate bandwagon, you just have to consider the base sources. A lot of 'em spew all kinds of poorly-researched nonsense without even knowing the desktop is one click away.

This is exactly the reason. The cool factor and tech pundits bashing Win8 to sound cool and informed and lazy tech writers who don't do their own research.

I test drived Win 8.1 Pro on a VM on a laptop and although i like the fact that it boots to desktop. Its a very Difficult os to use. If you want control pannel Charmbar>Search>Control Pannel(desktop) although the metro one is listed first. W7 was so easy. Start>Control Panel and thats it 2 clicks. I dont have to search for it. And so on. And what about ie. I want to launch ie(desktop) from start I dont want a million icons on my desktop or the bar. It also feels like metro apps are like a child version of the real productivity ones. Microsoft really needs to get their ideas right. Or they spit the os or they tweek metro "modern now" and give it more value.

People aren't wrong. They either like something, or they don't. It's presumptuous to think that just because we prefer something everybody else should too.

Posted via Windows Phone Central App

When I say people are wrong, I'm referring to the people who come out of the woodworks taking about all the things Windows 8 can't do... and it's hilarious because with the job I have, I'm sitting there demonstrating the purported incapabilities right in front of them.

From my experience you are one ppl who's wrong. I know quite a few ppl who sneer at WP, but have never so much as held one, same goes for Win8, my boss even uses an iMac secretly running Win 8.1 just to improve his image.

Or god forbid, people have different taste and opinions...I mean, why does it have to be a wrong or right deal? Maybe some just don't like it because they don't.

Its not a fad for me I just dislike the dual interface...that's all..literally knowing both exist annoys me and my family to no end. Explaining it to my mom who is older is just exhausting. I bought a new laptop and returned it because I really disliked how it felt, it felt disjointed to me. I will wait for windows 9 and try again. That's just me and my opinion not to say its bad but for me it was not something I enjoyed.

I can respect the people who, instead of saying it's bad just dislike it... at the same time though why pretend that something just being present has to bother you?

Every blue moon, I'll simply get a customer (usually female) that just thinks the tiles are ugly... in which I'll show them how to just ignore the start screen interface completely and just use the desktop. It can be ignored entirely just by checking a couple boxes in the navigation menu and for the people who too habitually used to the labyrinthine start menu to try out something that's faster and more efficient, they can download Classic Shell for FREE and have windows looking, acting and feeling just like they're used to... while taking advantage of the better security, faster operation and better resource efficiency that W8 has over W7, Vista, XP and the like.

I showed my 60+ year old mother how to use Win8 in a couple of hours, no problem. She was fine with her new laptop, until a tech guy came in and had to put the start button on it to "help" her. Tech guy was there helping my dad with his Win XP computer. Win8 isn't perfect, but it isn't difficult either. Could it do things better, yes. Could 7 do things better, yes. But 7 was familiar. I just want 9 to be customizable so that I can decide to have the start screen instead of the desktop for tablet and laptop, like I have 8.1.1 on laptop.

Awesome with a touchscreen, less so with non touch monitors/laptops despite MS's best efforts to correct the arrogance of Sinofsky. Also for business users there is virtually nothing of value in the use of Modern apps so few are going to bother updating their Win 7 machines as they did with Vista.

I have win 8.1 on my gaming desktop and I love it. Boots so much faster than win 7, more system resource efficient, quicker access to games (via live tiles - single click instead of double click for win 7 shortcut) there's literally no downside for me.

While you may not know of it, there actually is value in business for metro apps. You greatly underestimate the value of a system that works on an easily unfied account.

For example, just last week I was assigned to a cite where I was to create a network of computers that can easily access the same software and the same databases. Since they followed my suggestion to go with Windows 8 instead of Windows 7, they were able to simply sign in with the same account on all computers, go to the Windows Store and have their company apps available to everyone within the account without having to buy multiple licenses of the same software... and when they asked how they would share a database of modified files, the answer was a very simple OneDrive - which was already set up because of the company Microsoft account. I even got to learn some things about restrictions that put administrative users in power.

The equivalent on a system running W7 or any previous version of Windows would not have the equivalent setup with that level of ease, control or cost efficiency.

Thing is, I've been using Windows 8 since the developer preview, and Windows Phone since November 2010. I LOVE the universal/tile style, I really do. But the fact of the matter is, Microsoft was arrogant and told people what they need. They force fed mouse/keys users a touch-first interface. That didn't concern me, as I'm used to tinkering with and experimenting in new interfaces. But for the lay-person it was a nightmare.

EVERYONE I know who isn't an avid computer user struggled with Windows 8 and even Windows 8.1 until I gave them thorough demonstrations, and even then they still had difficulty unlearning the few things Microsoft has been hammering into them since 1995.

Then there's the problem of the mish-mash of interfaces in stock Windows 8 which is off-putting...
MS needs to rebrand Threshold, because Windows 8 as a brand has a lot of well-deserved stink.

Edit: I use Windows 8.1 Update 1 on all my devices and would never go back to 7, incidentally.

Maybe when they bring the start menu back, it will go back up. But since Microsoft delayed it till 2015, that's gonna suck for W8 marketshare...

Windows seem to be aping the old Star Trek movies, alternating between decent releases and broken ones. Windows Me? Rubbish. XP? Ace (mostly). Vista? Awful. 7? Brillo! 8? Mostly hated. And so on.

I think this comes down to Microsoft trying new things and experimenting with current designs. One release attempts something new and the following release perfects and/or expands on that idea.

If you want Windows to shine, make larger buttons for the desktop... Make it touch-friendly. Touch is over-rated on the desktop and in tablets, it's downright difficult to use for average finger sizes. There is a reason IOS doesn't have tiny icons... Microsoft needs to fix that ASAP or at least a 3rd party needs to mod it.

Um you can change the sizes of the live tiles. You can also adjust the size of the desktop icons.. You can also adjust the font size. There is no settings non customizable on Windows 8..

I know you mean well... but we are talking about the functional controls for windows on the desktop. Try to minimize, close or scale a window... still tiny buttons. They are not customizable. That's my point.

When somebody buys a windows tablet, the front end is nice but if you are trying to use the desktop, without a mouse, your finger must select tiny (based on resolution) objects like control buttons. Those don't change.


You can make everything large scale in the settings. And holding control while scrolling up makes icons as big as you want them to be.

No, you cannot. Make your browser full screen... then look up at the top right of your screen. Those three little minimize/windows/close buttons are resolution-dependant... and too small to manipulate easily. Same goes for many other buttons on the desktop interface. 

THAT is what makes the desktop portion of Windows 8.x difficult to utilize. 

I've been using Windows since the late 80's, (2.x) so I'm familiar with the subject. 

My simple point is this... make the desktop experience as easy to use and the front-end and you will win people over.

You can change the title bars' size for desktop apps in Control Panel > Appearance and Personalization > Display > Change only the text size.

One of the harder things for non savy techs is the fact you have to dig into the advanced settings to change the native scale... And it doesn't auto change when you plug in a big monitor (I prefer tiny icons in desktop mode with my surface). But yes, you can change it... Plus the scaling zoom makes some of the popup ("ok/cancel") windows clipped and look odd when at 150-200% on the desktop.

I think this would be helpful for tablet users but would that also mean the whole bar across the top becomes bigger? If so I would not like.

Ideal for me is menu's that swipe down or from the side, therefore leaving more screen estate.

Or maybe it depends by how the "change" will affect you?
Monday you will be promoted: bigger office and salary increase...
Monday you will be fired...
Both are still changes, aren't they?

I am commenting about your statement asserting that people do not like change and arguing tha the issue could be more articulate and involve what such "CHANGE" will do...
It is quite straightforward....

You have to understand I was talking about a change in OS, I didn't think I had to be more specific giving that this article is about Windows 8, no one ever mentioned getting fired?

Even 12 years from now? So you're going to be like the people that are still on Windows XP today? Cool I get "Comfort Zone"

I didn't have much to begin with either. Microsoft shouldn't worry anyways cause it'll probably have a great increase in the holidays.

It has been for a long time though. I have been ridiculed as a Microsoft fan for more years than I care to share.

Well to be fair, Microsoft really fubar'd this whether 8 is better or not. It's not simply cool to hate Microsoft, they have just been greedy and always trying to deliver the opposite of what people wanted. And I'm actually referring to the Xbox One scandal with DRM.

It's not just Windows 8 is my point, they've been screwing up for years. IE had been garbage for far too long among other overpriced software. Look at Xbox Music and Video... Trying too hard to be Apple it seemed.

Windows 8.1 and more importantly it's subsequent upgrades which also significantly improved 8.1 over time since its inception, is what people are overlooking now. It was justified to hate Microsoft and people probably have yet to return any faith to Microsoft. If Microsoft wants adoption, it has a pretty good looking system with Threshold. They just have to do a good job now at making everyone believe they aren't just being f'd in a new different way.

Not everyone hates it though, I don't... don't get me wrong, it (windows) can be improved, but I love the vision of what 8 represented. As well, I preferred the original plans for Xbox.

Sure, you can argue people don't like 8. Not us, that pay attention, but common consumers. Though, I know something is wrong when my aunt asked me how to buy a laptop that is not windows 8. I asked, "Why don't you want windows 8?" "The IT guy at work said it was bad and I should buy a windows 7 laptop." It's not that people don't like it, it's people that people trust don't like it. Which is funny because those two types of customers use windows in a completely different way from each other.

Lastly, to describe the original Xbox plans as a "scandal" is ridiculous. It was a policy that was highly hated (partially due to misinformation and mob mentality), but not a scandal. They weren't doing anything illegal, immoral or in my opinion anti-consumer. I truly believed the new/old policies were much more consumer friendly than the archaic way we continue to purchase content on a console.

That's pretty much it. Microsoft's the new Family Guy. Anything that gets too popular is going to get hated regardless of quality... and it'll get hated to an extent that nothing they do can help them recover. Look at Apple... iPhone is where the BlackBerry used to be, and iPad numbers have not beaten all tablet numbers combined for a very long time now.

We can see this happening in real time all day... no matter how many incredible apps Windows Phone gets, it's always the one with "no apps"... Microsoft can integrate the "Metro" environment so well that mouse & keyboard users can use all the same shortcuts and gestures to get around as if there weren't two environments... and you'll still hear derp-tards talking about "it doesn't work on desktops!"

The blind get led by the dumb...

I think the focus should be more on retail efforts to try to train and rid the brick and mortar's of their " windows 8 sucks" frame of mind. Word of mouth travels faster than any ad campaign. When I show people what my Windows 8 devices do they are in awe. If we show people the good and teach people that change may indeed be a good thing it will grow. Plant the seeds and demand will grow. There is just to much negative word on the street's. I love my windows 8 devices. Approach with an open mind friends, or take one from Mr. Jobs and "think different" because Microsoft seems to be the only one doing that now.

Well said, people hate it because it is worlds apart from what they were used to, this was especially true for mouse and keyboard users on windows 8. The recent updates have made it much easier for the said group of users. Multitasking was a pain as you had to go way out of the screen to get too zones on the top left or bottom left corners. Also Some one most had a proper zombie moment to decide hiding the shut down button in the settings charm was a terrific idea lol.

Ppl don't understand. We have many dumbs in the world. Demand is going the favour of all dumbs. Really pathetic this time. In talking about the world.

I could not agree more, in fact I say this just about eveyday as it applies to so much more than an OS. I try to go back and help friends and family still on XP, Vista, and 7, and it is a nightmare to fix things compared to 8.

Crazy. It's sad that something new and fresh, and yes, innovative can be so negatively covered and misunderstood. They've been paving the way...in my opinion, and it shows now that Apple, Google and Samsung are picking up stuff they developed first W8 and WP8.

Posted via the WPC App for Android!

Yep... and Microsoft kinda blows at it.


I went and checked out the YouTube channels for Windows 8 and Windows Phone... some of which are really good... but don't get used in a way that's effective.

Just watch the shows "The Mindy Project" or "The Following", almost every episode has someone using a Windows Phone or some kind of Surface in both.

It's pretty unrealistic in my opinion.

What is market share anyway but a percentage number. If you and I both sell 100 widgets this month, and next month I sell 200 while you sell 201, technically I lost market share but made twice as much money. Statistics can mean anything you want.

I feel that some WP users were getting tired of waiting for 8.1 and Cyan update and left. I am really on the fence right now waiting for my Lumia Icon to get its update..

This is about windows, not WP. But... You are so impatient that your are on the fence, possibly leaving the platform because an update, that you know is being rolled out had not gotten to you yet? That pretty much sums up our society.

First world problems jeez, "argh I can't take it anymore.. Where is the damn update! If its not here by tomorrow imma jump off a bridge!".
The people who throw tantrums over updates that are rolling out need to be thrown into an ice bath or something to cool them down lol. It would be a different matter when it is confirmed no update is forthcoming.

Judgmental in what way? There are many reasons to leave a platform; because you are tired of waiting for an update that just started rolling out is ridiculous.

Not baiting, but why is 8 so good? What advantages does it have over 7 and XP? If it is just shine and polish, then I could see why some may criticise. Is there a functional advantage? Oh, and I should advise, I think 8 looks lovely, but only seen bits.

It is much faster than windows 7 when it comes to actually doing work, and the start up and shut down times are also much faster. There are also some small things that go unnoticed but also make it much better to use a computer.

Boots faster on the same hardware, it's more efficient on system resources (RAM, GPU etc), it had imported the task manager UI, based on preference, live tiles are arguably superior to start menu in many ways, different authentication methods are supported out of the box ( Pin, picture password), better for touch devices, and iirc better support for high resolution displays (maybe not?)

Aside from the aforementioned points, the small things include some conveniences. For example, W8 allows you to mount ISOs to virtual drives without any third party programs

For touch screens is is far superior, faster and with live tiles far more informative.

So many swipe actions makes it delightful to use and then you can just connect in a keyboard and or mouse.

In my opinion, other than the pretteir asthetics and access to a Windows Store, I have experienced a much better desktop experience on my older hardware with Windows 8/8.1. I had an XP laptop and a Win 7 laptop, both of which were performing worse and wore over the years. When I upgraded them both to 8.1 they felt brand new! So most of the advantages are really under the hood. Performance, stability, that sort of thing. I will say the biggest improvement for me over 7 is the new Task Manager. It's a lot more useful by including a lot more data regarding how your system is handling memory and running applications, as well as (my favorite) the "start up" tab, that shows which programs start running when you power on the machine and the ability to disable whichever ones you deem unimportant so the PC can "get going" after a boot faster. But...these can all be seen as subtle differences that, depending on what your priorities are, as well as experience with your current copy of Windows, may not seem worth the two-hundred dollar investment, or the time and the problems one is likely to run into when upgrading a Windows machine. (Granted, my upgrade from Vista to 7 was a nightmare, but my 7 to 8 was fairly painless.)

Those saying they hate it, drive me nuts, because a great majority of those same people would be singing it praises if it had a rotten piece of fruit stamped on the box it came in. I prefer Microsoft products but when they mess up (Xbox Music, Video, abandoning Zune, etc) most of us will blast them for it. Yet for some reason, people who use Apple products would find an excuse as to why it is a good thing if the next iPhone gave them gonorrhea.

Then we have those people crying the blues about the stupid start button. The exact same things can be performed at the same speed on Windows 8 without it. You remind me of my 76 year old mother, who when she got a new car and found out she no longer started it with the key, by by a button. She complained up and down she didn't like it and couldn't get use to it. Get use to what??? Pushing a button ¼" instead of turning a key ½"?

Most half-ass backwards comment ever. Your the problem with the Windows 8 hate. You dont even know what your talking about, but you have decided you hate it based on made up notions derived in your head.

Market share doesn't necessarily tell the story, as W8/8.1 are consumer OS's at the movement and consumer is growing slower than corporate sales on XP replacement. Likely the whole pie grew and 7 is growing faster, so 8/8.1 market share dropped

I am struggling to believe this. Intel and Lenovo had great numbers and said PC sales continued to be strong.

Tell the effin MS board "we'll bring the sales back up "soon" and watch shareholders rip MS another shiat hole, but they can lie to us, drop shiat (products that we all knew about) like a hot potato, balls I tell you.

Cause it wont show up proper or I'll get booted
Do you know how many aliases I had to make over a 6 month period?

Why because old pcs wont be supporting new 8.1 and even drivers cant be updated....may be it was the reason and also many windows phone users also with lots of frustration about cyan update making this loss..what i think so?

This is about windows 8 not windows phone. Although they both run the same kernel they are nowhere near the same thing in terms of functionality.

Appreciating windows 8 series is like admitting that windowsphone 8 series is cool. Lots of android and iOS fans done want to admit that truth. The first time I saw the windows 8 UI, I fell in love with it, and I went to a shop and bought it. I was also considering buying galaxy note then, but when used my new windows 8 laptop, I even fell in love with it more, that I went to buy a windows phone instead. It's the android army and the iOS squads that are beefing.

I really feel like people try to knock Windows to pieces (PC based OS and the Mobile versions) because they already have so much invested in Apple crap, that they are afraid if the trend goes to another OS and they want to stay "in touch" with their piers, they are going to have $1000 in hardware, accessories, and apps that they will have to replace or buy over. If this wasn't the case, they wouldn't become complete combative when they here someone is buying a Windows Phone. They act like someone is breaking into their home and get so damn vocal about it. Just a weird customer base - almost more anti-anything-non-Apple than they are pro-Apple.