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Windows Phone sales dip in the US, but passes 10% in France and growing in Europe

According to Kantar WorldPanel sales of Windows Phone devices continue to grow at a moderate pace across Europe, especially the big five countries (UK, Germany, France, Italy and Spain).

However in the United States Samsung’s Galaxy S5 looks to be hurting Windows Phone and the iPhone.

Europe rising

The latest numbers were just released this morning by Kantar, who monitor sales channels of various smartphones. Today’s stats account for sales for the three months to April 2014. The trajectory of sales for Windows Phone looks to be the same with Europe being its strongest market, including France, passing 10% and the UK with 9.5% in sales. Spain also had a big jump to 4.6% (up from 1.7% the year earlier).

Kantar France

The total Windows Phone market share of sales across the big five European markets is at 8.4%, with Android leading with 72.4% and Apple at 17.5%.

Kantar Big5

Those numbers signal what Kantar refers to as “increased handset fragmentation across the European smartphone market”, which in this case is a good thing for Microsoft’s Windows Phone since they are the ones doing most of the fragmenting.

US drops for Windows Phone sales

The course in the United States though is also similar, that is Windows Phone continues to struggle. Sales of Windows Phones have dropped to 4.7%, down from 5.6% one year earlier. Two factors can possibly be attributed to those numbers:

  1. The hype and launch of the Samsung Galaxy S5
  2. One major Windows Phone launch with the Verizon Lumia Icon (Samsung ATIV SE came later in April)

The Galaxy S5 launched at the end of March with preorders, but the hype around its announcement – and later the HTC One (M8) – seems to have impacted sales of all other mobile operating systems. It was no secret that HTC and Samsung had new flagship devices coming out, and it looks like many were taking a ‘wait and see’ approach.

Kantar US

On the flipside, Windows Phone did not have much for new devices in the first part of the year. The Lumia Icon launched on Verizon, but AT&T, T-Mobile and Sprint did not see the addition of any new devices. The Nokia Lumia Icon has received solid reviews, but there are no sales numbers to indicate how well it is doing. One thing is obvious, however well it is selling it is not enough to offset the continued strength of Android (and Samsung in particular).

Indeed, Samsung is so strong in the US that its sales rival that of Apple (34.1% versus 34.6%, respectively).

China and Android dominate

Low-cost Android devices are continuing increase in popularity in China with a 7.9% increase in sales year-over-year and a nearly 80% dominance in device sales. That has come at the expense of Windows Phone, which has dropped from a poor 2.2% in 2013 to an even worse 0.8% in early 2014. Ironically, the Android-based Nokia X may be playing into that decline, though, with no solid sales numbers on that device, it’s hard to know for sure.

Cortana

No '8.1effect' just yet

Windows Phone 8.1 was not announced in time for these sales numbers, so there will be little impact to marketshare.

In the US there are no official Windows Phone 8.1 handsets available today, with the 8.1 update likely this summer for existing devices. For AT&T, we are expecting a re-launch of the Nokia Lumia 1520 in Green for a June/July timeframe, but no new major Windows Phone device until November. Likewise, AT&T and T-Mobile are expected to get the Nokia Lumia 630 in July as well.

We don’t have high hopes for any US or worldwide bump for Windows Phone for the next few months as the 8.1 update may not push sales too much higher. It will be interesting to see how adoption of the Lumia 630 and later the Lumia 930 affect sales.

Source: Kantar Worldpanel

Daniel Rubino is the Executive Editor of Windows Central, head reviewer, podcast co-host, and analyst. He has been covering Microsoft here since 2007, back when this site was called WMExperts (and later Windows Phone Central). His interests include Windows, Microsoft Surface, laptops, next-gen computing, and arguing with people on the internet.

454 Comments
  • can't help the feeling that there was very little excitement about the last Nokia Lumia announcement. Lumia 930 is nowhere as groundbraking as 1020 or 1520 was... waiting for the next phone before I upgrade my Lumia 925!
  • People will love Lumia more after they see the next iPhone and galaxy sux
  • I wonder when will the next Iphone and Galaxy suck.
  • "Don't wait for error from others but correct the mistakes and build on your strength." Your policy will only hurt WP
  • I would like to see the 1020's successor - the 1030. With Snapdragon 805, LTE, microSD slot, 3GB RAM, 5 inch screen with 2K resolution, and the most important thig: a slightly convex Pelican array of 4x4 20MP PureView cameras, which can take pictures of almost 180 degrees. Uh, it has Qi as well :)
  • +1020  
  • Why would you want a 2k display? It's a waste.
  • I want the device to be future-proof, for at least 1.5 to 2 years...
  • efektos  I was going to say that's a pretty deep deep thought out spec on your earlier comment, but once I read why on your later response, I can't help but to be on your side and that you got me there, considering your definition of "future proof" is a very realistic smart phone life span. Thanks for cracking me up. Lol
  • I'm sold!!
  • ...  
  • Suckers couldn't release one good phone for the US market. And plus, they keep the Lumia 1520 under att's evil arms.
  • only suckers buy carrier-branded phones
  • But that's exactly the problem.  You know, we all know, when the next iPhone or Galaxy will be released (approximately).  We know these are "hero" phones.  But we have no idea what or which Lumia is truly the next "hero" phone.  It's absolutely stupid.  Make one dang "hero" phone and come out with and updated version every year.  And yes carry it on all carriers (US).  Yes, budget phones are great.  But my main interest are in the high end brands and I wish there was a consistant cycle knowing when they would be released instead of always waiting around guessing when that might happen.
  • This is where a Surface Phone could fit nicely. Nadella has stated that the Surface line is not meant to compete with MS's manufacturers, but to create new divices to inspire them. We see this perfectly with the Surface 3 Pro. A SP could indeed be made to align with this position. If they've been paying attention, they know what the hero phone market wants. Start with a phone like the one Efectos describes. 
  • I hear you loud and clear and Me likey that idea.
  • Nokia's release schedule for the 930 has been slow and vague. I'm still not sure if and when it is coming to the US on ATT.
  • It's been established since it was announced: 930 is not coming to AT&T or any US carrier as Verizon has a lock on the Icon (930).
  • This is why I got a Note 3 on Tmobile. I didn't have a option to get a nice W8Phone on Tmobile :(
    I know there's a 1520.3 version but I got burned on a ROGERS 920. Nokia will not fix it if it breaks. Microsoft needs to kill this exclusive B.S. and get a high end 5 and 6 inch screen phone on all US carriers. Posted via the WPC App for Android!
  • I'm in the same boat. I also got a note 3 on T-Mobile because there are no flagship windows phones on T-Mobile.
  • Dude same here, due to the lack of a WP flafship phone on tmo, I end up choosing the N3.
  • I got an iPhone and I am very happy with it. Exclusivity is BS
  • That's one of the real reasons why Windows Phone isn't seeing stronger growth. They keep releasing exclusives. IDK how little WP market share is,Microsoft needs to do something about it. They are big enough to take it there with the carriers. It's hurting growth. IPhones and Galaxies are on damn near all carriers big and small. Especially the Galaxy. Before someone argues that the carriers will site market share,HTC releases to multiple carriers. There problem is (HTC) is showing that The One is at least on par,if not better than the Galaxy. I could go one with other things,such as Microsoft's marketing and release timetable,but I won't. I have been pleased with my 920 and 1520 and have seen more Windows Phones in the US. I remain optimistic.
  • I was going to say the same thing; exclusives are killing Windows Phone in the US. It's idiocy!
  • Yep, exclusives and the pace has suddenly screeched to a halt. I'm sure a lot of this has to do with the Nokia/MS switchover, but they cant afford a lull like this. They need some fresh 8.1 hardware out for EVERY carrier right now.  Sadly, end of the year is probably optimistic.
  • And this is exactly why windows phone isn't doing well in the US. How can n new logon breeds possibly compete if they are only presenting themselves to a subset of buyers.
  • If even that subset were buying them, then they would increase their presence. Obviously that is not happening.
  • Carrier loyalty can be as powerful as brand loyalty, some people would perhaps love a particular phone but will refuse it on the basis of which carrier it is with. Apple and Samsung don't have to worry about this because they saturate the market with their products, no matter where you go you will see iphone and the galaxy. If Microsoft want any chance of penetrating further than they have then they need to also take this approach, expecting word of mouth or whatever bizarre marketing approach they are doing simply won't cut it.
  • Its not so much that I'm loyal to my carrier, but I have 6 family member on a single plan. I cant just jump ship to another carrier because I like a phone they have.
  • Or there is that, whether it be your friends and family are on the same network, or that you have all your services with one company, both make a shift just as difficult.
  • "some people would perhaps love a particular phone but will refuse it on the basis of which carrier it is with." This doesn't describe carrier loyalty; it describes choosing a lesser of evils.
  • I guess the carrier situation I'd very different here in Australia. People are almost carrier fanboys here, someone on Telstra will never switch to Optus, for good knows what reason, or vice versa. Not everyone is like that but there are a lot.
  • The carrier exclusivity in US is the main reason that is killing WP in US.  L930 is wonderful, but so what.  MS/Nokia is making sure that people on AT&T, Spring and T-mobile can't get it no matter how badly they want it.  L1520 and L1020 are great.  But Nokia is making sure that people on Verizon, Spring and T-Mobile can't get those phones no matter how badly they want them.  Now MS has bought Nokia, but Steve Elop is still there.  Don't expect to see any changes to the carrier exclusivity policy anytime soon.  The WP phone sluggish sales will certainly continue.
  • That's alright. As a 920 owner, the 930 seemed like a compromise. As a fan of the platform, what's missing now is presence. Walk into any store and what do you see? Android, Android, Android, Android, and if you look hard enough you might see a WP, but not on carriers like US Cellular, Boost, cricket, etc.
    Hopefully the new policies will motivate OEM to also release a WP to match all the Android devices to slow this problem down.
  • Cant agree on the 930. My kids have 920 and my wife has a 930. I think the 930 is a solid move forward. The improved screen alone makes it a worthwhile upgrade IMO. Its not monumental though, and I prefer the style of the 920.  
  • Every new Lumia they release is a great phone, but it always comes with some type of frustrating deficiency, like the lack of Glance on Icon.
  • I agree. No new devices on att the largest WP carrier. That's not helpful especially since the 1530 was always identified as niche. That leaves 92x as mainstream flagship material and while they were for awhile not anymore. 930 needs to come out of exclusivity soon or other devices brought to market.
  • Like I said, if AT&T wants a new high end Lumia, they will ask Nokia for it. If you think Nokia would say 'no' to such a request or not bend over backwards to fulfill it, well...remember what happened with Qi (vs PMA), they ripped that out to please ATT.
  • Yeah, but AT&T is full of brain-washed reps.
  • Wut?
  • My mom went into an ATT store to get a 1520. She needs a big phone due to her vision and already has a Surface tablet and likes the live tile thing. The rep kept pulling out other phones - the Samsung, LG and others trying to talk her into an Android phone. We kept having to insist that she wanted a 1520. With friends like that, who needs enemies?
  • AT&T certainly has issues, but they have been the biggest carrier and supporter of Windows Phone since day one with WP7. They get every single major phone (and even the minor ones) and they will even snatch ones from other carriers (Lumia 925).
  • Hence why ATT got the 1020 exclusively!
  • Hmm what is the definition of biggest W8Phone carrier? Most phone choices or most W8Phone users? I know Att has the widest phone selection but doesn't Tmobile have the most W8Phone users? I could gave sworn John Lagere said Tmo had the most users. Which is crazy because they don't even have a current high end phone. Posted via the WPC App for Android!
  • Get a Windows Phone.
  • +920
  • Not crazy when you consider the 520 and 521 have the biggest share of the WP market by miles.
  • Until 2016 Nokia will say "no". Microsoft Mobile may say yes, though. ;P (just nit picking)
  • The Latin on your photo always intrigues me. Makes me want to reply to you in Latin!
  • Nokia doesn't produce phones anymore; they'd have to call Microsoft... ;)
  • They shouldn't have to though. Nokia should just contact all carriers and say " we have this new model coming out we can provide you with x units will that be enough" or something to that effect. Don't ask, tell; it's called sales. Agreeing to exclusivity with one carrier on a flagship is financial suicide, plain and simple.
  • And what do you say when the reply is "no thanks, we dont sell enough of your phones to make it worthwhile. We will only buy some if you can give us an exclusive."
  • Work for it, mention x advertising campaign, whatever. Carriers want money, they are not going to neglect a huge name in the business, maybe if they were some up and comer, but Nokia is a huge name, they have pull. Hell, they can still offer sweeteners to anyone willing to pay but don't neuter potential buyers it is terrible. There is a reason why there is a McDonalds/Starbucks/7 eleven on every street corner, saturation.
  • I wonder whether AT&T have to "ask" Apple or samsung or anyone to make a phone for them........
  • Why on Earth would At&t "ask" for a non seller? They won't, they wait until MS/Nokia sh**s out a new phone then surround it with a fence. The qi thing, that was MS being thrashed by AT&T. MS needs AT&T more than AT&T needs MS.
  • UNLEASH THE KRACKEN....AKA THE SURFACE PHONE ALREADY AND DONT MAKE IT CARRIER EXCLUSIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;-)
  • This. They should definitely have something like Nexus phones. Carrier-free, good price/features ratio.
  • I've been waiting for this as well. Or how about an Xbox phone
  • And make it a full blown hero phone that rules them all. They can do this while they also work the low end with Nokia phones. 
  • See when Nokia included that free white flag with the sale of every Lumia the French bought them like crazy!
  • Liberty. Equality. Nokia. 
  • Rather curious if the ATIV SE is exclusive or if any carrier can get it for themselves. WP doesn't have to make consumer inroads on just Nokias.
  • They are going to have a tough time making inroads with Nokia considering Nokia doesn't make phones any longer. Windows Phone brought the end of Nokia.
  • MS is still making them regardless of what you want to call them.
  • Nokia was on life support before MS stepped in to rescue them. 
  • You can only break ground once. Well not quite, but it's harder to come up with something groundbreaking every time, they are just building on their solid foundations. The 930 has 20mp camera, better screen & other stuff I can't be bothered looking up (more memory, better processor, etc). It's a solid if not super exciting upgrade. I am not upgrading either, all the good stuff is being reserved for 8.1 and the MS/Nokia merger, let's see what they come out with now they're finally under one roof. As for these stats, who cares? There's going to be 17+ manufacturers coming out with Windows Phone over the summer months, the picture for the second half of this year is going to be remarkably different, Q1 & Q2 is just treading water.
  • Well tell Nokia/Microsoft to make their phones available on more carriers.:) Hope the new OEMs bring some fantastic hardware. Anyhow, this is Windows Phone and we will overcome.
  • I mean, they want their phones on as many carriers as possible. It's not for lack of trying ;)
  • Not the good ones though & its a mishmash across each carrier. They really need to release the 930 already. It's the best WP yet & the only way to get it is through Verizon under the Icon. So its either switch to VZ, or buy it outright for big bucks & then lose LTE. Both ATT & Tmo dont really have a premier device that people want. The 1520 is nice, but its huge. And I love my 1020, but lets be real. While still a great device, its hardware is pretty long in the tooth. And its more of a niche device showing what a camera like that is capable of, but is large & cumbersome. The 930 would solve all this if they'd get off the pot already.
  • "The 930 would solve all this if they'd get off the pot already."
    Lumia 930/Icon is exclusive to Verizon. That was the deal. It will never come to another carrier, so they simply can't offer it. Mind you, AT&T could ask for it's own custom 930-ish device, but they have not. If the carriers are not asking for the device to sell, how can Microsoft/Nokia get off the pot to sell it? Unless you really believe ATT is knocking on Nokia's door asking for a high-end phone and Nokia is like 'meh, not today'?
  • Do we know that AT&T hasn't? Even if they did, would it matter? I mean, if its exclusive then its exclusive. We don't know the exact inner workings of these deals & who asked for what, but exclusivities like these are probably a big problem. How can you make a device like the Icon (which is the definitive next gen Lumia that trumps all) & offer it on one carrier?   Does Samsung offer the S5 on one? Apple's iPhone? No, they don't. Because it would be suicide. Not to mention tick off a huge segment of their userbase.
  • Galaxy S, iPhone, One and G sell like crazy so they have the leverage to get on all the carriers. Windows Phone does not sell well so they are forced to have these exclusive deals as no one is really looking for their devices. 
  • iPhone began as an AT&T exclusive
  • I would respectfully say that exclusivity must seriously restrict WP sales. Here in the UK you can walk into any carrier shop and see every iPhone and Galaxy. They even have separate displays with the phones switched on. Compare this to WP, maybe one top end device in one colour. Seriously, this must have an effect on sales.
  • Not to mention the fact the reps will try to move you away from WP. That's quite a bottleneck!
  • Are you kidding me? The size is the only drawback of the 1520 for some people(and ATT stripping Qi charging). It's the ONLY high end Lumia with expandable storage.
  • I sure hope you are right Daniel cause I get tired of seeing "will be a Verizon, AT&T exclusive" and in the next breath "T-Mobile is set to get the next low budget phone". I would buy unlocked but I can't justify spending upwards of $600 for a phone in one lump payment. That's why I love T-Mobile's new plans. It makes upgrading very easy.
  • I have to disagree with both sentences.  The only unlocked Windows Phone sold in the US Msft Store is the 520/521 and even then its still carrier specific.  When you look at the competitors, you can easily pick up an unlocked iPhone at the Apple Store or an unlocked Nexus 5 from Google Play store.  Where is the Msft unlocked phone?  The day after the Nokia/Msft deal was finalized Msft should have released an unlocked high end Nokia phone in the Msft Store but they didn't.  In my opinion and as a consumer the carrier locked phone is dead, Thank You Tmobile.  I could never recommend a carrier locked phone to a friend or family member going forward.  Hopefully Msft realizes this sooner or later.
  • Look at the Nexus sales. They're very, very low. Not saying they shouldn't do the same, I'm just saying don't overplay the importance of it on actual sales.
  • I would be curious to see where the Nexus 5 as a stand alone compares to Windows Phone (excluding the 520/521) in the US.  If you have numbers please share.  Not looking at sales dollars but volume sold. Googe still gives you other options with unlocked versions of the S4, HTC One 2013 and M8, Moto G, Sony Z Ultra, and soon to be S5. Msft gives us nothing.    
  • They could at least get a high end Surface phone out that is unlocked that they sell through their stores, that way it's available to everyone including here in Canada where WPs are virtually non existent.
  • Or just sell them unlocked through the Microsoft Store (brick-and-mortar, and online)! No carrier in Canada has picked up the 1520 yet, but I'd gladly buy it factory unlocked directly from Microsoft.
  • Order an unlocked 1520 from omega cell in Edmonton- I did. Shipped here to Calgary the next day. www.omegacell.com
  • Thanks for the link. That's tempting. Not as crazy expensive as I feared, either.
  • This!! PLEASE!!! We need the option to buy unlocked from the MS store in Canada. It's nearly impossible to get the devices that we need. No 925, no 1520, no 930, and Rogers' exclusivity limited sales of the 920.
  • Microsoft loses enough money on Surface. They are not selling them directly for a reason I am sure.
  • I think they don't sell them directly to appease carriers. And maybe they're right to. Until they try it, how do they, or we, know if their reasons are valid or not? I'd try it with a couple of models and see what happens. Apple has success doing it.
  • I agree! Microsoft makes it difficult to support Windows Phone outside of the US. They need to embrace the rest of the world first if they want to be popular at home.
  • This is not true, as a matter of fact the US is one of only a hand full of countries that have the carrier exclusive locked bullsh#t. Most countries around the world including here in South Africa do not have that! All our carriers get the complete Lumia line and they are all unlocked and unbranded, the only exclusive between carrier's will be colour (I could only get a black 1020 on mine) and sometimes accessories. If the US used this same model Lumia sales would undoubtedly soar, here in South Africa Lumia windows phones outsell the Iphone 4 to 1 (thanks to the 520)
  • I asked a Microsoft Rep 2 weeks ago at a Nokia Developer event in front of the Rogers Rep this very same question and the Microsoft guy gave me the corporate BS answer about how happy they are with what Rogers was doing. At that moment I realized that this platform isn't going to go anywhere in Canada because Microsoft doesn't have the balls to make it happen. I love Windows phone, but at this rate I may as well try Android for my next phone and see what all the fuss is about.
  • Or maybe when they sale them from the MS store they make them affordable by getting some sort of payment plan also.
  • Looks like WP will never be able to caputure the US market. MS needs to start getting WP8.1 out for all devices and keep pushing for the big apps. Only then we would see a change. Just having a great OS without decent apps is not going to help at all.
  • The good thing is that Apple is really, really losing ground. Any time I see a friend post to facebook whether to get an iPhone or Android, almost everyone said Android (and I chime in with windows phone lol)
  • +Icon
  • Lol I do the same xD
  • Maybe in Europe not in the US,and don't forget that next iphone is to be launched in a few months,unfortunately for WP no flagship coming soon,more than that no Nokia phone from 2015 only microsfot lumia phones.Put in the ecuation HTC one,LG G3,I am not so optimistic for the next year  
  • All apple fans that's y. Microsoft should now concentrate on those where their goodwill is good and can be good enough. Forget US atleast for now.
  • Apps is the key, too many rubbish apps like skype and facebook, I know updates are coming but at a slow pace. The only decent windows app I use is the WPCentral app, may be you should advise Microsoft.
  • I know that a lot of peoples care about apps but other than a faster experience from FB or Skype; I don't know what else to ask. I won't buy a new phone until next year since I don't see anything appealing from the current line of phones (WP, android, ios).
  • Actually I see that the Moto G is a great device for money. At 200 bucks and fluid experience and updates.. Don't get me wrong here but I use all Microsoft services have Windows 8.1 and Windows Phone 8.1. But that phone from Motorola is a threat. (Nokia vs Motorola days were the best)
  • It probably doesn't help that outside of the larger carrier owned stores, you can't even find a WP device. In April, I had to go to three Verizon stores to find the Icon here - the first two smaller stores didn't carry it, only the main, large store did. And forget about seeing ANY mall cart of any carrier having a WP, or Best Buy - this is where lots of people go to buy cell phones, and WP has literally zero presence there. Doesn't matter how much they advertise or how many apps the are if there are no phones for sale when people go to buy one.
  • Best buy, Costco, and Fry's in my area have no WP. Only Walmart has the Lumia 521 on display.
  • Same here. Target has the 521 as a PAYG phone offer, but no display model.
  • I live in France, and I can assure you that Microsoft France is doing a nice effort on showing windows phone. In any phone shop, you'll find a WP device. And in any tech shop too.
  • This is indeed the problem. If you want to sell a product, you have to make it easy for people to buy. WP has bad public perception to begin with and is only furthered by making it virtually impossible to find and purchase. Incentivize retailers/salespeople to sell WP! Money talks. MS should just sell WP's in their stores and thru Amazon!
  • What big apps are you missing?
  • Seriously? I don't think this needs to be rehashed any longer.
  • MS should do 30-50% off for the launch week -deals (off-contract). They'd likely get bigger and bigger lines for each release, and more more and more "free" media coverage, and consumer interest. It would also be a nice gesture to support the ones that are most enthusiastic about your products instead of bleeding them.
  • Until we see WINPHONE , alongside iPhone & Android icons. Whenever apps are being advertised. It's going to be a challenge to take more market, plain and simple.
  • I have to confess that I don't understand their strategy in US.. Here in France we have quite the advertisment in the subway, shopping centers etc.. I mean, it's not as visible as iPhone or Galaxy's advertisement, but still; I've seen big 1020, 820 (presented as the "4g affordable device")  and 920 displayed on the walls of the metro. From what I can see and hear, most of high school students who don't have a lot of money are owning a 520 and a many people are eager to buy the 930 as soon as it is out. I'm not quite sure what the reasons for the fail in US are, but it looks like perhaps US customers do not like to own a low end device ? Whereas here, people just want an affordable and smooth device which WP provides way better than android throught it's lumia 520 & 525. 
  • And they keep releasing features for US only. A country where they barely use WP SMH!!
  • Microsoft is a US based company with 50K employees based in Washington state. Do you really think it's weird that they release and test things here first? Because I sure don't.
  • Testing is fine..but the problem is when these features are never really released outside of US..like the bing rewards..
  • Well I do disagree with you. A business could also identify its successful markets and invest more in them. Nothing wrong with that way of thinking.
  • Europe Windows Phone marketshare is growing. That's a fact. It's doing well there. So you want Microsoft to invest more to do what? Make sure it grows...but it's already growing, which suggests that's what they're doing. Here's a question: Let's worry less about Europe/India and more about the US where sales are actually lagging. See to me, that's a priority. Not Europe. Not India. Here's why the US market is more or a priority: the tech media is all here. If something becomes big here, it gets bigger in the rest of the world due to positive and cyclical media coverage.
  • You are sooooo wrong. That's the way business was made in the 90s.
  • Yes the market in india and europe for wp is definitely growing no doubt in that..but it still has a long way to go android and apple are still more popular..wouldn't it be nice to get these features outside US so that at least wp can compete with them..
  • While I  agree that MS shouldnt ignore WP in the US just because they are "lagging" in that market, it doesnt make it a valid reason to give the EU the back seat, just because WP is growing in those markets.  If anything, the fact that it's growing in the EU/elsewhere, launching features such as Cortana, bing rewards etc. in those markets as well, could potentiatly further increase interest in WP devices as word of mouth spreads, especially since the EU sales are mostly driven by low-cost devices and as we all know with WP 8.1, users are practically getting the full OS experience on those low-cost devices, which is a lot to brag about to family and friends; word of mouth is actually one of the best form of advertising.  While people do check out what the tech media in the US has to say, they also do follow local  news and tech media's locally as well. The general person who is buying a phone, usually asks a family/friend or salesperson for a recommendation. So while I agree with you @Daniel that MS should obviously continue to invest in the US, I also agree with @crise that they should invest more in the countries where it is actually doing well, as they can build on that momentum to further increase market share.  The US might be where all the tech media is but not everyone spends time reading tech articles and I'm certain the majority actually go for what people are enjoying using and talking about. 
  • The problem here: US is 1 country (English). We say "Europe" but we mean 45 countries; 5 if you just want the "big" ones. Which do you think it's easier for MS to prioritize or at least get things out first?
  • Since when is anything that's not easy, not doable? Making and managing an OS like WP is not easy either. We are talking about one of the biggest companies in the world here. With practicaly unlimited capabillities. On the topic of difficulty, it really is not that difficult. It is the same routine you can repeat in every country to localize services and make things available. About the topic of the US being the start point in the world from where all the tech hype starts, abduz makes a very good point. Most regular people read local tech sites in their own language.
    Also, I think this era is gone. Because of Twitter, Facebook and everything else on the internet, a tech hype can start anywhere on the planet. On the internet everyone is basicly equal and hypes can start anywhere.
  • @daniel, I dunno bout that, in Miami they speak more spanish than english ;) jk...I agree that the US pretty much has 1 Language but in cortana's case, they could easily release a beta in English for Europe and follow up with other languages, better to put some investment towards that then to leave the OS feeling like it's missing something.  So while cortana does take a bit more work due to languages, I'm sure people would much prefer having it in English as beta than to have nothing, knowing eventually their language will come.  English is pretty univeral accross the world including the EU. Let's ignore Cortana for a sec. I remember local scout and such being built into Windows Phone and I travel a lot for work between Africa, EU, Middle-East and occasionally to the US but Local Scout was pretty much useless practically everywhere, yet Foursquare would do a brilliant job anywhere I went.  So it would have been nice to be able to use something like Local Scout since it was baked into the phone but resources weren't invested there, which is a shame. Don't get me wrong, I clearly see your point but I do also believe growing markets deserve similar or atleast a bit more attention. Yes the US is easier for MS to get things out first but there's definitely ways to work around such issues, especially for a company of their size and it would surely do more good for WP than harm.
     
  • Well, even without ignoring Cortana, I can assure you that here in France, a LOT of people would love to give a shot a Cortana in English without having to set all the damn settings to US... I mean, Cortana is not available in another language than english, fine, but why preventing us to try it ?
  • I do not believe they should prioritize any countries at all. If only the fact that it makes it sound that you see the other countries as lesser. The fact that you are doing good in certain areas means you should keep it because it isn't going to last forever. Also MSFT has the manpower to do so, even more then apple and their stores are everywhere all over the world.
  • This is where Nokia was much better than Microsoft and other companies, Europe does have many countries with many languages and you need an organisation able to sell into that. The US should not be ignored, a falling user base is very disappointing, but with WP knocking on 10% user share in Europe there is a chance to get to the point where everyone is looking to support WP because it has the numbers and people buy because of the support. Some other US companies are pretty crummy at selling into Europe, e.g. with computer games part of WoW's success is how good they were at selling to non-English markets, Sony online entertainment have similar games for example, but due to poor marketting and sales they could not translate the user numbers of the US into Europe while Blizzard could.  I suspect that Apple and Google have the same US focus but are lacking real competitors, using Nokia's local knowledge right could be a key advantage to unseating one of them in this market. To me that makes perfect sense to then base some of the work (localisation should be treated seriously) in Europe, e.g. Cortina, with a small user base it is hard to get good feedback.  Microsoft have a lot of money and can easily afford to do both markets right, e.g. 8.1 should be in beta in many countries, not just the US with the hope that the translation will work okay...  
  • You couldn't be more wrong Daniel. Yes it is growing, but not much, and it could stop growing any moment. It is still light-years away from Android. Why not grab this chance, invest and accelerate growth? Besides, it is not like MS has limited cash or resources to do both. So I really do not see why there is less invested outside the US. WhatsApp for example beamed outside the US, and the popularity is catching on in the US now. So it is not a general fact that growth and worldwide success cannot start outside the US. Yes, I know you are American, and from your point of view it appears you are a typical American who thinks the US is the center of the universe.  
  • Yes, I know you are American, and from your point of view it appears you are a typical American who thinks the US is the center of the universe.
    I know, right?   I mean, why would he think that, considering that Android (American), iOS (American) and Windows Phone (American) are the only three significant mobile OSes, while the non-US choices like Symbian, Sailfish, Meego/Maemo and BlackBerry are largely defunct?   For all the complaining about the "typical Americans," it seems the world wants American technology and doesn't have much of an appetite for "the rest of the world's" efforts. 
  • If you think that those top 3 OS'es are purely made by Americans then think again
  • iOS took what's existing and just polished it up, Android is a blatant rip-off of Symbian, WP needed Nokia to succeed and don't forget Nokia's input to improve the OS ...at the end of the day, always remember that everytime you press call or hang up on your mobile, that is finnish/Nokia tech, all that hardware tech is made in china and alot of the mind behind these products are a mix of everyone ;)  Anyways that's besides the point what @crise is practically  saying is that the rest of the world shouldn't be given the backseat when it comes to WP, especially since it is doing better outside the US and I couldn't agree more. While whatsapp is an app, that's still a good example of how it's been popular around the world for years and only just started catching on in the US, so much that FB ate them up for $20 billion ;)  There's lots more examples but i think the message was pretty clear.  It wasn't bashing on Americans, it was just saying the ball needs to be rolling everywhere... just cuz it's lagging in tthe US doesnt make it alright for the rest of the world (where WP is succeeding) to take the back seat.
  • Hahahahahahahahahaha.. Typical..
  • Did google's android become big in the US or world wide?
  • WP is not used/sold in the US only. It a used/sold in various other countries. Apple doesn't release features for the US only, I see no reason why WP can't be the same.
  • "I see no reason why WP can't be the same."
    Of course not, because you don't have to actually worry about doing the work ;)
  • That's no excuse for not bringing these features to other countries..I mean then why does MS hire people..
  • As part of Microsoft's entire business, how much do you think Windows Phone currently accounts for? Serious question. I think when WP and RT merge and mobile grows to be more significant for MS, we will see more focus on this product. For now, they're not putting all their money there because frankly, they have budgets too.
  • For now, they're not putting all their money there because frankly, they have budgets too
    Yeah, trust me it shows. Especially here in Canada. Problem is Microsoft doesn't talk as if WP is a 2nd class citizen at Microsoft. But it clearly is and I can honestly say for the first time since I switched from the iPhone 3g to a Samsung Focus (now a 1020), I'm thinking about trying a different OS. With the renewed focus on services working on other platforms, In some ways Microsoft is making it much easier to switch away from WP than to stay.
  • Really? So WP is just a backseat product? Then you have led us on a wild goose chase, Daniel. Maybe we should all forget about WP and switch to other platforms till we "see more focus on this product". This confirms what others have been saying the past few days that Whatsapp has been missing from the store that Microsoft doesn't give a damn about non-US WP users. Not to have WA in the store for over 9 days is the most terrible thing that can happen to WP in places like India, Phillipines, Indonesia, EU, Brazil, South Africa, etc. Most people will not buy the Lumia 630 in these places until WA is back in the store, assuming WP's reputation is not in tatters by then. SMH.
  • ' For now, they're not putting all their money there ...' Well, that's been pretty evident so far.   For all the WP rah-rah, Micosoft themselves very obviously give mobile a back seat priority.
  • "Of course not, because you don't have to actually worry about doing the work " Isn't that exactly what a business is for...doing the work? If you don't do the work, your competitor certainly will!
  • And that's why windows phone is losing in countries where it finally got things going like Italy, China and the Philippines.. :D
    I've been waiting for that Bing rewards for since forever. :)
  • Over Here in Ecuador its sales are rising, I see more and more people with Windows phones, the bad thing is its services arent all available here :(
  • Does Google or Apple offer all their products such as Now or Siri there?
  • Does it matter?
  • Siri and Google Now are available to anyone in the world... But its not multilingual (Google Now has some languages BTW) but still everyone in the world is learning English so...
  • Yep ! And that's the major difference, MS assumes that if the main language of your country ISNT english, then you shouldn't access the feature... It's almost insulting.
  • Well if you take it that way.... then it is insulting.....
  • Well, it still is a shame to what extend Microsoft does it. It takes ages for features to come to outside US markets ...
  • You may not consider it to be weird, but you must surely consider it to be foolish...?
    Microsoft have a real chance to actually catch iOS in other markets. They are sacrificing that chance by focussing so much of their R&D and marketing on the American consumer.
    Nokia was so loved by Europeans because they actually supported our markets. They weren't some distant company.
    MS really should be more 'Google' in the way they do international business....i.e., releasing products into multiple markets at the same time (Cortana & Bing Rewards - I'm looking at you!)
  • That's one good reason why WP development is so sluggishness. Testing the OS in region's where market share is so minor and give priority to it is never a good policy. It does not manner where your company is based but you should look, test, innovate and invest where your product has stronger sales. All companies act like that, where do you think Ferrari looks first, Italy?
  • Dotcompt is right, MS is a global, not local company, same as 3M. 3M always pays attention to the world. Dust and pollution kicks up in China, 3M starts making more masks to meet demand. Wife works there, meetings express this type is analytics all the time.
  • Or they could do like Samsung and sell their crap everywhere, advertise the heck of it everywhere (did anyone NOT see the new galaxy S5 publicity with Ronaldo, Messi and others, or the airport terminal in London???) Or maybe Samsung should follow Microsoft logic and "test" first in Korea...
  • Samsung is very, very good at regionalization. No argument there. Samsung is also the worlds largest information technology company and employs nearly 400K people worldwide. I'm just saying, they have a lot of resources :)
  • Yeah I don't think people realize the resources Samsung have, especially when it comes to manufacturing. Their decision to only halfheartedly support WP is a problem too.
  • Samesung is also 1 of the largest shipbuilders in the world and one of the "Big Three" shipbuilders of South Korea.
  • I'm actually pretty sure that Korean companies often release stuff first in Korea.
  • It's not weird at all, but it's frustrating that many of those cool things never get to other countries. Let's take the colourful Lumias as an example... I live in Brazil and I only have a yellow 920 because I was in Australia at its release, all ohter Brazilians have to go for black or white handsets. Brazilians love to look different from each other, so it's HUGE lack of awareness from MS Brazil not to realise this. Another very cool thing that only you guys have is those promotional times that you can take an old rival device to a MS store and you get a discount on a new Windows based one... The majority of Brazilians, six months after buying a device, they think it's old already! The day MS Brazil realise this, they will start making huge money!!! And what about advertising? Apart from one or two very poor translated TV commercials, we have had neraly nothing! It really seems that MS Brazil is full of dumb and blind people working at it! Their only luck is that the 520 is one of the cheapest devices on store shelves... But, as soon as people have money to buy a new one, they get rid of it cause thanks to MS Brazil, having a Windows based device doesn't look cool :( I hope it gets better one day :)
  • Geographical location has nothing to do with markets; plenty of companies have their best sales in foreign markets and, correctly, focus on them.
    WP biggest marks was Italy, now Apple regained the second place there while WP keep declining.
  • If Google and Apple can then so can Microsoft. Stop being an apologist. How long did it take Apple to roll out basic Siri functionality globally? Microsoft has no plans for Cortana till at least 2015. How many Google Android features do you know of have remained US exclusive for 3-4 years? How long have Bing rewards or the Local Scout feature in WP remained exclusive to a handful of countries?
  • Well in the Philippines I haven't seen even a single WP commercial ever since I bought my 720 last year. People here only buy WP because of the Nokia name on it. Sadly sales might go down when the Nokia name is not on the phone anymore.
  • Yeah, about that...630 is just plain bad..
  • "630 is plain bad".
    Couldn't agree more.
    In my view the explanation is very simple. It's called Nokia failure. Despite millions invested by MS.
    Simple fact is that there isn't flagship phone having all musts: 5' screen, SD support, slim and light with minimum bezel, stylish colors. Instead Lumia line is complete mess. Nothing to shout about (excluding niche devices). NONE!!!
    That's way many customers don't even look at Nokia phones. Hence, US operators are not interested.
    Hope for Surface phone with SP3 design soon. Until then WP market share will go down.
  • ...and yet all the promos, discounts and freebies are "us only"...
  • This..
  • Yes, and why do you think that is, besides MS being a US based company? Promos are there to push sales not reward people for something they are already buying.
  • Well,I don't think you can call the European market a strong market when it comes to windows phone. It may sell best here but compared to android and IOS it's still quite weak ...
    Some sort of promo would be great and it would also give you a feeling of Microsoft caring for their outside US customers
  • We just covered an awesome sneaker promo in Poland. There are lots of promos in Europe and especially India.
  • Haven't seen any WP promo in Norway for the last year...
    Even though 1020 and 1520 got really good reviews. Still getting asked if my yellow 1020 is an iPhone, yak. When not even the 1020 is recognized as a Nokia/WP, someone is doing a "not to good" job marketing...
    Even got an answer from MS Norway (e-mail) that I had to contact Nokia about a question I asked about WP 8.1 since Nokia was the one handling Windows phone... Really impressive ;)
  • Yes, that's working great for Windows phone, isn't it?! Just wait until the Nokia branding is removed from the Lumia line and then you will see how many phones Microsoft is gonna sell in Europe... Give it another year..
  • ^^ 100% Correct. In Serbia people have grown to respect Nokia for quality and support. In the recent years Android has reached about 99% of smartphone market, however. This is mostly because there are lots of free apps and games. Social apps are important too. There is sort of a cult following of Windows Phones among IT & technology students, but carriers ask for an arm & a leg for a decent Windows Phone under contract and this is not helping. Nokia is a respected brand, Microsoft not so much. I'm not saying MS products are bad, but the majority of desktop Windows users are using pirated and/or outdated software, such as XP, loaded with adware and viruses. So constant crashes, slowdowns and erratic behavior has created an unfavorable aura around the MS brand. My guess is, when the Nokia name is replaced with Microsoft, this will not at all help boost sales in Serbia. I love my Lumia 820, and I especially love that it is a Nokia.
  • And yet how many 'perks' did those in the EU get with the Xbox One that US customers didn't... You push perks and incentives into weak markets - not markets that appear to be buying your product regardless
  • What perks?!?! The Xbox one is not even available in most European markets!
  • In the places it has released... People got what - 2 free games at launch for buying the One? Some in Europe got plenty of perks to encourage a purchase that others around the world did not.
  • +820
  • What about in India?
  • Dan that clock on your desktop is really nice, which app are you using ?
  • Analog Clock Tile. Search our site for more info or the Store.
  • Mistakenly installed analog clock live tile. And sucks like hell.
    Now installing the right one.
  • Lol yes.. They don't seem to mind the numbers... Bah! If they are releasing a new phone in Nov then they're hoping sales will carry over to Dec.. Holidays holidays holidays lol
  • Get major apps ...stop this us exclusivity and make everything for everyone and let US come behind WP...not to go behind them....
  • Microsoft needs to get carriers to promote Windows Phone in their adds, and in stores. When I walk into a carrier's store, I see way more Blackberry devices than Windows Phone. WP is often way in the back corner of the store behind every other platform. This needs to change or no one will ever know that Windows Phone is even an option when they are ready for a new phone. If Microsoft has bought Blackberry when they had the chance, they could leverage the deals already in place with the carriers to promote Windows Phone as strongly as Blackberry promoted their devices. Not to mention be on the fast track to make Windows Phone the default platform for the enterprise.
  • Couldn't agree more! +Icon
  • "Microsoft needs to get carriers to promote Windows Phone in their adds, and in stores."
    They want to. They try. Remember when Nokia trained AT&T reps on the 920/1020? But ultimately the guy who sells you the phone in the store has his own opinions and pushes what he/she thinks is the best. Until Windows Phone is perceived as hip/cool/must have, that will never change. Microsoft can't force carriers to do anything. They can ask (they do), they can sweeten the deal (the do), but they can't just "get them" to do anything. Even when AT&T features Windows Phone (see our previous coverage of the 1020 launch), if the device still doesn't sell, it doesn't matter.
  • So you're saying that Microsoft has no way of convincing carriers to stock and promote Windows Phone.
    I think it's more that they simply don't want to pay that kind of money.
    Microsoft could subsidize Windows Phone to the point that the carrier would forget what an iPhone even is. Or buy companies like Blackberry and use the carrier deal already I place.
    I'm sure if Microsoft really wanted too, they could get carriers to support Windows Phone as strongly as they support iPhone.
  • Sales people would change their tune if MS gave them financial incentive to sell WP.  Money talks. 
  • I'm on Sprint, which has two WP choices. I opted for the Samsung. Its quite a nice phone actually. Anyways, I go into the store, and ask the rep about Windows phones. He confusedly searched the store, and finally had to ask someone else. They were located in the display case with basic phones. Basic freakin phones. I get them to let me play with the Samsung, and the guy starts rattling on about how Windows phones are crap, nobody likes them, he's only sold 3 and two were returned, and maybe I might be more interested in the S5 (which was still a few days from release at the time) or an iPhone. So, I bought the phone new in box on eBay. Until things like that change, we won't see much growth. I was an early adopter of android, and was excited to see its growth. I feel the same with WP. And actually, I'm working on apps now, something I was never inclined to do on android for some reason.
  • Lol. I had the same experience in a mobile shop. I asked for a Lumia. The guy said Windows Mobile (!) was crap, which I agree to, but that was not what I was asking. Anyway, as I pulled out my 820, he immediately changed his stance and said something like "... they are improving recently, but they are still complicated to use". Obviously sales reps need to be educated. I had decided on Lumia when I entered the store and yet felt as if I was doing something wrong, because my question was brushed off harshly. Now imagine what an average Joe might decide when he asks for a Windows Phone and receives the same treatment? He'll go for Samsung.
  • Could Nokia/Microsoft can the idiocy of exclusive phones on specific carriers. Logically, this doesn't make sense and one could surmise the awful sales numbers in the US. Acquiring a Lumia phone in Canada is brutal. No wonder sales suck. Drop exclusive carrier agreements and start inventing sales to push Phone 8.1 when it arrives
  • Not going to happen and I think you misunderstand market dynamics here. For one, Microsoft and Nokia don't like carrier exclusives anymore than you do. But it's a reality. When you have 4-5% marketshare, you can't go to all four carriers and say "all of you, take this same awesome phone and promote the hell out of it". They will all turn it down and no one will get the phone. Carriers either want (a) a phone that everyone wants and is selling so much they can't say no or (b) an awesome phone that only they can sell. They much prefer (b), by the way. It's called the iPhone effect. Once there is a hit Windows Phone that everyone wants, things will change. I can also say things will be better this November with 'Goldfinger', because that phone is redonk.
  • The difference between the iPhone effect and the current world is there is plenty of great choices for phones. I understand market dynamics very well. When a products isn't available (Canada) its not going to sell very well. I have to go out of my way, and spend plenty of money doing it, to get the Windows Phone I want. I stopped trying to convince others to get a Windows Phone because a) the carrier doesn't offer any windows phones or b) you can't get the phone you want. Still waiting for the 930 and 1520 in Canada.
  • Rogers passed on the 1520 because they got screwed by Samsung on some phablets. That's a fact. If you want to blame someone for not having that device, blame the gatekeepers: your carrier. Nokia offered it to them and they said 'no'. Why aren't carriers held to any level of responsibility here? They're the ones who ask for devices, they're the ones who says 'yes' when Nokia comes around and offers them their portfolio. It's not like Nokia forgot to stop by Rogers with their new devices. They're sales people, that's what they do.
  • Therein lies the rub Daniel. I am not, and never will be a Rogers customer. So if Rogers didn't want the phone did Microsoft try to deal with TELUS or Bell? Bell, who carry NO Nokia phones. At the very least Microsoft has the ability to offer the 1520 from its own store for those of us who buy our phones.
  • Oh I'm sure they have. Look, that's what happens on MWC, those deals. Nokia sits down and takes meetings with all of those carriers and go 'here's what we got' and tries to sell them to the carrier. Then the carriers say yay or nay, or , they ask for a custom device and talks go from there. It's the carriers though who are the gatekeepers. I have never heard of Nokia forgetting to try to sell to a carrier, that's what they do. But ultimately, Nokia sells phones to carriers, not to customers. People here tend to think carries are just 'stores' to sell your goods. They are certainly not.
  • I have a strong aversion towards brand stores. I would rather walk into a "Lumia store" or "iPhone store" that a "Microsoft store" or an "Apple store". Companies need to put products and services above company identity. People want Lumias, not Microsoft.
  • You should write an article about how it is the carriers fault if they don't have the phone that one wants.
  • Here's a thought. Start selling current Windows Phones from the Windows Store in Canada. Don't tell me, based on these sales numbers, manufacturing can't keep up. Somehow Samsung managed to overcome being #4 or lower. I'm sure Microsoft can do it. Just stop with the excuses.
  • That's certainly a valid idea and I don't know why they haven't done as much. Do a significant number of people buy off-contract/unlocked phones in Canada? Because I'm wondering if there's a value input/output disparity here (e.g. they may "only" sell a few hundred $600 phones versus the amount of money taken to get that all going).
  • Everyone I know with a windows phone does because that's the easiest way to get the phone we want on our carrier of choice. I had to buy the 1020 from TELUS, wait 3 months for the unlock code, to get it onto my BELL account. As for the market in general I know I'm an outlier but I also know many more people that would switch to Windows Phone if they could just get the device they want, contract or not. I prefer to buy my phones because I want a new one every year. Offer devices on the Microsoft store, sell additional support and upgrade options like Surface, and they will come
  • I would say most people probably don't buy their phones out right. Problem is if you want the latest and greatest Windows Phone here in Canada, don't hold your breath for any of the local carriers to have it and heaven forbid that give us the same color choices if they do carry it. Apparently Canadian carriers think Canadians are color blind when it comes to Windows Phones! I've purchased all my phones outright and I even had to go across the border to purchase my 1020 because nobody at Rogers could even tell me if they were going to carry it once it came out in the states. Windows Phone in Canada has been a joke. I check the local flyers every weekend and I see more feature phones advertised in the Best Buy and Future Shop flyers than Windows Phones.  
  • Redonk...haha! I look forward to hearing about it!
  • Then why doesn’t Nokia (under MS’s fat pockets now) start going around the carriers like Google does (with Nexus & Motos) & offer phones off contract through their site & in their corporate stores (which Google doesn’t have) at an affordable price? Sure, they wouldn’t get rich off of phones selling them just over cost, but they’d at least get more market penetration & break down the walls of carrier locks & exclusives (which is killing them). Consumers don’t really tolerate exclusives anymore & its an old practice thats dying (thank God).   They simply don’t have the luxury of waiting for the “iPhone effect” because they’d be waiting for something that isn’t going to happen. Those times have come & gone. It was an era when smartphones were just getting good & Apple could afford to do that. In 2014, MS cannot. And they can’t play the “Apple card” & catchup like they always seem to do (like they did with the iPod & Zune, iPad & Surface, etc). You see how that’s worked out for them so far. MS is always that one dude showing up late to the party trying to hook up when everyone’s already drunk/getting laid. It ain’t gonna happen.
  • @Daniel Rubino I can also say things will be better this November with 'Goldfinger', because that phone is redonk. you seem to know something about the 'Goldfinger' that we don't. Spill it man ;)  
  • This is a self-defeating position. How can carriers expect there to be a phone that everyone wants when there is very little product awareness of that product and to which the carriers themselves are in no small way responsible for that situation because they don't stock or promote it? It seems the carrier expect to be spoon fed. 
  • If there was one good reason for a Surface phone that would be it. Same device across US carriers and massive marketing. The US is a tricky market, a weird one I should say.
  • They bought Nokia. There will be no 'surface phone', whatever that is.
  • I know they bought Nokia, I don't live in a hole. But they can still release a flagship phone, sort of Nexus of WP available contract free or equally with every carrier. I used "Surface" to make it simpler, same way I would use "Nexus", no need to be condescending.
  • Unfortunately, there's no real evidence such a strategy would work. See the actual Surface and its (non) effect on sales.
  • The Surface name is irreparably tarnished by the stupid Windows RT. They failed to convey to the customers what it really was and why should anyone choose an RT over iPad. Heck, iPad has become a genericized name for a tablet, something like Xerox for photocopy.
  • New better phones. Problem solved. I've been waiting to replace my L925. Not sure what the hold up is. I pay TMO for the next plan and there's no next if Nokia doesn't put out another phone. LOL. Wtf 5" SD card. All I want
  • The only way MS can break into the US market is stoping the exclusivity with (AT&T and Verizon), they have to release features and afordable phones, all at the same time and with all carriers.   For example; I love my 925 but I'm stock on T-mobile so, I dont have the option to move and get the phone/s I really like [Icon & 1520] can I get them unclocked on 'eBay'? yes, but they won't have of the network features.  I have a unlocked 920 so I know....
  • Yeah pretty bad, not one new phone outside the icon, i will be waiting for a while to update my device it seems, like holidays or something
  • better apps first of all ... a great system , a great smartphone , lotta colors but where are the quality of the apps like we see when it comes to android and ios ... The gap is not so big , but man the devs dont give a #$%% about us . Its not just microsoft's fault , but they can do better to push the devs
  • Would you care that much about 4% of the market if it was your money on the line? You would be wasting time that could be used improving an app that has access to 40% or more of the market.
  • Why are so many people turned off by windows phone? Its between the Galaxy or iPhone in every case. Dare you mention Windows Phone to somebody and they usually instantly say no. What makes the everyday customer think that? Too me the Galaxy is very bland. The only android phone I like is the HTC One.
  • Branding. Samsung has a lot of clout (and marketing dollars). Apple too. Microsoft doesn't have as much consumer branding success and 'Nokia' means nothing in the States as a brand.
  • Yeah ur right. Microsoft doesn't do lot of branding like others. Their main income is from enterprises. Businessmen
  • God what a nonsense. MS could spend just as much on marketing, but they just don't, because they are stupid.
  • This is one of the main reasons that carrier exclusivity hurts WP.  Nokia has tried to brand their Lumia devices but that doesn't help much.  You can't effectively advertise a 930 and an Icon at the same time (not to mention a 930 and 630 and 520).  MS/Nokia spend a fair amount of money on advertising.  Unfortunately, that advertising is segmented due to carrier exclusivity.  Wow, that Lumia Icon lookes awesome. I want one.  Nope, you are on AT&T.  You can get a different Lumia, though.  How about the 1520?  Is it the same as the Icon?  No but how about the 1020?  Is it the same as the Icon?  Nope.  Oh, never mind.   You can't do a good job of branding with so much fragmentation of your product.  That is a big advantage for Apple and Samsung.    Microsoft's problem isn't just carrier exclusivity.  It isn't just the teenage fanbois pushing their favorite OS.  It isn't just lack of good branding.  It isn't getting short changed by tech writers (in fact many tech sites praise WP devices - though some are stil clearly biased). It is all of those things combined.   The real reason they need to sell devices that work on any US carrier is that then, they can advertise the Icon and people can actually buy it.  The Galaxy and Iphone are marketed to everyone as the same phone.  It's not a Galaxy S5 for Verizon and a Galaxy A5 for ATT. It is just the S5.  Marketing different versions of phones, even if they are the exact same phone, is less effective and more costly than marketing one phone to everyone.   If MS sold phones in stores and online at least they could get people excited about a phone and give them a welcoming place to purchase the phone they are interested in.  Many people don't have a welcoming experience going into a Verizon or ATT store to buy a Windows Phone.  People on Sprint/T-Mobile don't even really have an option to buy a high-end windows phone.  Sprint doesn't even carry a Lumia phone.  At least then the people who got excited about the phone from the ad would be able to go into a store, look at the device, get helpful advice from someone who was a fan of WP8, and actually purchase the device for their carrier.  As it is now, there are so many road blocks to buying a WP8 device in the US it's a wonder anyone ever gets one.
  • Apps my friend, all due respect, I came from Android and I like my Windows phone now, but it wasn't easy, much apps are not official, you have to pay in most of cases. (which I agree, but in Android you can find many quality apps for free). Other thing is app quality, look the problem with WhatsApp now, twitter app is average at most and so on. Anyway it's my opinion.
  • Agreed. I actually left WP for Android (I have an HTC One M7). MSFT has taken big steps towards improving the app situation, but they've got a long way to go. Not everyone uses just "big name" apps. Android and iOS tend to have ALL apps, their success didn't happen because they have the top 50 or top 75 big name apps. I personnally use apps for Captial One, my local credit union, Swag Bucks and Toyota Entune (links to Toyota's infotainment system that was developed by MSFT!) to name a few. Apps that have features you can't access on mobile websites. I also find it silly many of the official apps, are in friccin beta. Posted via the WPC App for Android!
  • I love swag bucks!
  • I don't understand how Microsoft still make all new feature first only in the US and then take months to get to Europe(these things should be global or a large part of the world at launch but that's another argument)
  • I said above, it's a US based company with 50k employees here. While WP doesn't do well in the States, guess what? WP is only a teeny party of their portfolio and they're not going to reorg their company to launch stuff outside of the US just for Windows Phone.
  • Probably time to contemplate failure then...
    They are selling a platform that has its greatest successes at the lower end....yet put all their focus into selling their platform to a high end led market such as the US.
    Microsoft should be thinking about the next billion smartphone users in emerging markets who have yet to move from their (Nokia) feature phones....
    I must say, since Nokia were bought out, I haven't felt much impetus behind the platform. Nokia created all the buzz in the early years...they plugged the software gaps with their own novel solutions (Nokia Camera/Storage Beta/Glance Screen/navigation/MixRadio). They also put on all sorts of novel PR stunts & promotions (#2instawithlove etc)
    Microsoft are reverting to type and dropping the ball. A real shame, as I love the platform.
  • "They are selling a platform that has its greatest successes at the lower end....yet put all their focus into selling their platform to a high end led market such as the US."
    Couple of things, clearly they're not put all of their focus in the US, since Europe and India are growing at a steady clip. Two, you're right they originally did focus mostly on highend. That's where the money is and that's where they thought they could compete. The rise of India and emerging markets came out of no where. Go back and read the tech press and no one saw that WP (and the 520) would take upwards of 40% of the WP marketshare. As as result, MS did have to readjust their plans and focus of the OS, including better 512 MB support and even Dual-SIM. MS planned on one thing, but had to do the other. Not ideal, but not many were predicting that that's what would happen. Also, while sales of the 520 and lower cost devices are high, their profit margins are very slim. Ideally, you spread it out all over and actually make money. For all it's success with the 520, Nokia was still losing money.
  • WP success in Europe & India is no thanks to Microsoft. Its all due to nokia and their brand. HTC & samsung were selling WP handsets before nokia but they wer not of good quality. While the API position has improved since 8.1 which should help developers build compelling apps, that was not possible before. That is why developers refrained from creating quality apps on WP. Many app developers/companies that created app for WP were doing it so that they could say that they are everywhere. Developers interest increased because of the way nokia interacted with the developer community and reached out to them. If MS continues with what they are doing, WP will always remain 3rd ecosystem. It has been so many years but local scout is still unavailable outside handful of companies. Is it so difficult to get POI data and make it available to majority of markets. They have access to Here Maps and foursquare data, why not use it. And the way they think that people don't travel & that all the people in that country only speak the official language and can't speak english is flawed. I use WP and love it, have a Nokia 920. But MS has better features/apps in either US or on Android/IOS. If it was to me, I wish people in EU/India would stop buying WP unless there was feature and MS apps parity. 
  • With your reasoning, what the hell are you thinking? Are you honestly admitting here that MS doesn't give a damn about WP as it is just a toy? Then they better quit it now. When you want to compete with android and ios you have to go all the way or stay out of the game. Nevertheless, I see bo reason why you are always saying that MS has limited resources. Are you seriously not aware that MS practically has an endless money stream of income? They can easily hire 5000 people extra and pay them. They can spend billions on buying a single app like Skype, but they can't spend such money on extra workforce?
    Do you keep defending MS at all costs Daniel?
  • You go in stores in the U.S. and dont' have Windows Phone handsets for sale. How do you expect to sales?
  • Crappy Facebook app, crappy WhatsApp app, what do you expect? Of course WP can't succeed this way. All the crucial apps lack quality.
  • This +1000. My point exactly.
  • Microsoft should make more of it services available outside the US to make windows phone more awesome. They should prioritise europe more .
  • So wait, Windows Phone is doing really well in Europe, but no so much in the US, so they should prioritize Europe? It's already growing. It's the US that needs the help, no?
  • Your right it does need help!!! But no matter what Ms comes up with..... Doesn't work! And obviously it's there so called strategies! Ok lesson in insanity 101,same action and expecting different results! ( cough) Microsoft! And if we have to reiterate the issues within carriers then its time for them to hang it up! I get it android and IOS need not to advertise they have the market locked down... But we don't! On the contrary .......were doing worse!
  • It's growing because people love Nokia over here! I bought into the platform because I wanted Nokia to have a resurgence. Now that Nokia are no more, we are left with a fairly unimaginative US company that seems fairly slow to grasp the opportunities presented to it.
    SE Asia, Latin America & Europe...Microsoft should try and win those given that they actually have a chance. Get those marketa to 20% plus, & you have a platform that cannot be ignored...
    Alternatively, keep annoying people in those successful markets by releasing things to the US first...
    I appreciate you're a US editor --- BUT, the US doesn't need to be won. There is a whole world out there waiting to be smartphone connected...
  • "I appreciate you're a US editor --- BUT, the US doesn't need to be won. There is a whole world out there waiting to be smartphone connected..."
    I think differently because if you cover this beat, you know WP does pretty well outside of the US (10+% in some countries), but the media still does not cover that. All talk of WP sales in the media are US centric. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying..that's the way it is (find some major media outlets that say otherwise). WP could be huuuge in India (80% of sales) and you'd still see major tech sites ignore it. That's the sad reality.
  • I said it wrong I meant they should do the same stuff they do in the us like local scout, bing rewards etc. outside the US too. It I important to give us Europeans the same level of features as you guys in the US have.
  • So true and the situation is worst for Latin America, let me tell you.
  • Yeah, but they stop promoting Windows Phone in Europe, they're gonna lose everything.
  • I repeat: You couldn't be more wrong Daniel. Yes it is growing, but not much, and it could stop growing any moment. It is still light-years away from Android. Why not grab this chance, invest and accelerate growth? Besides, it is not like MS has limited cash or resources to do both. So I really do not see why there is less invested outside the US. WhatsApp for example beamed outside the US, and the popularity is catching on in the US now. So it is not a general fact that growth and worldwide success cannot start outside the US. Yes, I know you are American, and from your point of view it appears you are a typical American who thinks the US is the center of the universe.
  • "Yes, I know you are American, and from your point of view it appears you are a typical American who thinks the US is the center of the universe."
    Wow. Thanks. I have been to college and traveled the world a bit, ya know? Should I interject some anti-European slurs now too? I will say this though: the center of the tech world is here and not in Europe, so there is some truth to that statement, as much as you'd hate to admit it. WP is but one small area of Microsoft. Until it starts growing, the company is not going to sink all of its resources into it. Having said that, I think it's clear that MS is undergoing a major shift and Nadella sees the value in mobile more than the previous leadership (you can also blame Sinofsky for sucking up all the resources and focus of the company).
  • Funny how you first 'WOW', and then admit that my statement was true. So in your opinion the US with its 17 trillion in debt (not exaggerating) is the ‘tech center’ of the world. I’m glad you’re just referring to the tech part, because there are many ways to look at the importance of a region for the sake of the planet. Times are changing. China and all the other countries around it are catching up to the western ‘lifestyle’, and with the internet available to everyone eventually, I doubt the US will remain the ‘tech center’ of the planet. Anyone who runs a successful business knows that when you see chances, you should embrace them, and grow on them. Investing in mainly the US for WP is like beating a dead horse. A worldwide success is out there, it can be grabbed, but seemingly MS is blind to this. They think, oh, out there in the world they will buy our stuff anyway, since according to American magazines we are so cool here. If the success outside the US would become a reality, more and better phones would be made by various OEMS. Through the internet, the US would easily spot the greatness out there and catch on.
  • Your statement was a sweeping generalization and slur against Americans, and even though I'm an anarchist and far from a nationalist, it's still offensive since you generalized my views on the world without even knowing me. You're above that. I did, however, qualify your statement. That's different than agreeing with you and I'm more than happy to point out that difference ;) Regarding the rest, Silicon Valley is still Silicon Valley. On the West coast we have Microsoft, Intel, Google, Facebook, Apple, IBM, and virtually every popular service or startup too. When those companies aren't the biggest in the world dominating our OSs and services, then I'll alter my view. Likewise with the Verges, Engadgets, NYTs, etc. of the mediascape.
  • It is clear that the US now has leading companies, and there is a tech center, but giants like MS should not be limited by this current perception. The long-term success of such a company is guaranteed by looking at the future. 10 to 20 years ahead. MS should envision this. Anyone can build a multibillion company from his garage right now, as long as he/she has access to the internet. The tech future will be worldwide and independent of region. Oh, and let’s not forget that most of the hardware is made outside the US. Think Samsung, HTC and so on… But this discussion is totally not necessary. MS could easily focus on the US, AND outside the US in the most enthusiastic countries. They have all capabillities.
  • I saw that quote mentioning anarchism some time ago and was curious.   There are many different types of anarchist and I will refrain from asking you.   Personally I wouldn't call myself an anarchist, but that's simply because of my personal history.    I started on the left interested in and peripherally involved in groups that emphasize worker self management and came out of the Trotskyist tradition.    That said most of my adult life has been centered around an interest in parecon and worker co-operatives.   It's my feeling there is significant overlap between such and some forms of anachism. enough politics....   back to Windows Phone.
  • Daniel, Prioritising europe doesn't mean forget about US. and WP is not doing very well in Europe, it still has single digit marketshare. I would agree with your commets if it was the market leader (or close second), but that is not the case. Prioritising means that make available all features in Europe/Asia which are available in US. Put equal focus on bringing services globally rather than US alone. 
  • Just look how SMS developed first in Europe and Asia then US catch up on it.
    MS should focus on emerging/hot market to build and keep that momentum so the rest of the world and the US will take notice. You create excitement where the party is. If MS loses her gain in Europe, MS will lose everywhere.
  • Do "in the US" include Canada?
    or ONLY the United States?
  • Only the US. Just like we don't include Mexico.
  • Oh who would have imagined, an exclusive phone not carrying the weight...
  • High time Microsoft shifted the Windows Phone focus from US to other countries that actually care about it. So many nice services tied with the platform, but they won't work properly is most countries.
  • And STILL all the cool stuff is u.s only. Nuts.
  • "High time Microsoft shifted the Windows Phone focus from US to other countries that actually care about it."
    I have to disagree. You're suggesting Microsoft give up on its home base in the US. Why? Windows Phone is doing well in Europe/India (or at least growing), it's the US that needs help in sales. How is that a sound strategy, by abandoning what is considered the leading market for technology in the world? (Sorry, the world does not follow what sells in India or even Europe).
  • Other companies dossent seem to have problems supporting international features ;)
  • Amen
  • Tell me about it... got a Windows Phone, a XBOX ONE and thought i would be awesome recording movies in the phone and watching it later in XBOX directly from OneDrive. But here in brazil you cant watch anything from OneDrive for more than 10 seconds without xbox stopping for buffering for another 5-10 seconds. Google Drive downloads are about 5x faster than OneDrive, thats really a shame...    
  • I get the same experience. I don't have any movies at all on OneDrive. Simply because it is so darn slow.
  • I cannot play any movies from one drive in Australia. It is a joke.
  • Europeans are more design and aesthetics conscious.
  • Sweeping generalization alert. Last I checked, Apple is pretty huge in the US.
  • Yeah, its not like Google, Apple & MS (and basically the entire tech industry) are all American companies. Wait...
  • 1520 should have been released on all 4 US carriers at same time..
  • Could this be the beginning of the end for WP here in the us? And you don't see it getting any better? I wonder at what market share will Ms axe the WP program? And with no sweet phones to come out anytime soon.....yeah maybe Ms should start taking still notes from android..... They obviously know what there doing!
  • Ahh shiznits; you gonna anger everyone here!
  • It's obviously the truth or the article would be about growth not decline! What ever Ms got in store for WP... it's not working! Ok maybe its.....kinda working ....kinda! And maybe kinda doing ok is what Ms is looking for because that's exactly what there getting no more or less...teams in the NFL get rid of people when there team is only doing kinda good !!!!!!!!
  • Lol but you said Microsoft should takes notes from android. I don't think many people like that. But I do agree with you! Don't get me wrong.
  • Off topic, what's the name of the clock app on daniel screen?
  • Analog Clock Tile.
  • They dip, because these $10 an hour workers at the providers locations practically refuse to sell you the damn things. I've been on board since forever and know that is what I want when I go in, and pretty much have to fight with the a'holes to buy what I want.
  • Yup, that's our reality. ☹
  • When I bought my phone, I just told them I know what I want and that is what I'm here to purchase. I don't need somebody I have never met telling me what phone best suits my needs.
  • Only thing that holds windows phone back is the quality of the apps I mean even Microsoft own skype is shit! At least they seen to have fixed the music and video apps for 8.1 so I am hopefull if they fix skype what's app Il have no need to go to android
  • I still can't imagine how one could buy a phone as ugly as the Galaxy S5
  • Agreed
  • If not that more users would attract more apps, I really don't care if I'm the only one using windows phone in the world. I actually went for it, cos not every one had it.
  • More users = more apps because devs want to make more money. If you are the only user to WP I doubt that even Microsoft itself will even develop for WP.
  • Why are they gonna re-launch the 1520 again they have been ignoring it since day 1.
  • Yeap, that Us centric Microsoft policy is really paying off hey? If it weren't for Europe there won't even be a windows phone anymore. Food for thought Mr. Satya Nadella.
  • Wait so they are only gonna re-launch the 1520 in summer for at&t??? No real new flagship?!?! NOOOO m y contract is up in July! I seriously wanted to upgrade my 920 to an amazing 8.1 flagship!
  • Well, I'd suggest waiting until November.
  • Ok.... :(
  • Stop this all sh*t Daniel, where is WhatsApp? ;)
  • Hi Daniel. Sorry about asking here, but I'd like to know where do you get all these tiles background?
    Thanks
  • If lumia 930 or 1520 were already available everywhere maybe things would've been different. I sm tired of waiting for a truly replacement for my lumia 920 nokia in my country offers as an upgrade the 925 (16gb storage) and the 1020 ( great camera but still the same )
  • Another major factor Is the lack of OEM's on our windows phone ship.
    All the companies except nokia and apple make android phones.
    But with new partners our share in every market should grow.
    Especially with Sony,LG,micromax etc. Coming soon in the market with windows phones should be a boost for the market shares.
  • I don't think that's true, I can't see my self ever wanting a WP device not developed by Nokia/Microsoft. They've pretty much painted the picture of what a Windows Phone device is, anything else seems like a ripoff. Posted via the WPC App for Android!
  • I feel the same, but who is to say that other companies won't be able to match the quality of Nokia one day? And anyway, it's not so much about the people here who buy the top of the line phones, it's about growing the lower and mid level segments that all these new OEMs will accomplish.
  • That US carrier exclusivity seems to be working wonders for WP..../s
  • I've said it before, MS/Nokia don't like it either. But when you command 4-5% market share, trying to get all the carriers to take the same phone is a hard, hard sell. Having said that, I'm hearing good things about 'Goldfinger' later this year to possibly do just that.
  • 3rd time you mention Goldfinger. Would you like to elaborate a bit as yuo seem to know more?
  • It doesn't help that every Best Buy, WalMart, and every other store I've been to this year just display a sea of crappy, cheap Androids, a few "high end" Androids, and iPhone. Very rare to even see a Windows Phone and when I do, it's the 520 in a box in the pay-as-you-go section. I guess I'll just keep using my lovely 8X. Honestly, I still love it and to switch is going to be tough. Although the developer preview release slowed it down a bit which is making me wish for a little more horsepower.
  • Yes, this is the normal WP experience in the US retailers showcases. I know that more can be done to change this very quickly, but I sense that the carrier are running the show rather than the OEMs.
  • Microsoft should pay all retail employees a little more an hour to promote WP more than any os and and when customers buy a phone they HAVE to say wheather the employee at least tried to sell the Lumia and if they didn't or get caught lying they will get demoted back go the original salary
  • You're saying one company should go to another company, and somehow pay its employees to promote their phone? When, has that ever happened? Also, wouldn't that be seen as exploitative by the media? And how would you verify that they're even pushing the right OS? It just sounds like...cheating.
  • If there was more unlocked versions of top models in the us, could it help?
  • Micky will have to get there finger out. That's all there is to it. Nokia did most of that work to get it to where it is now.
  • Its really a shame that probably one of the hardest working and most innovative companies in history is where its at
  • I do believe that the things are going to be better for WP market share. MS is acquiring (slowly and surely) the consumer interest for their products, and I do think that MS are trying to do their best to increase WP market share, but unfortunately the things are not changing immediately. The drop in US market share is not that bad, because it will be affected in the future (increased) due to the increasing popularity of WP in Europe. P.S. I still don't understand this 'US only stuff' like Cortana (well, at least there are plans to release it in other countries), full Bing functionality (AFAIK in US it's very similar to scroogle).
  • No new device on AT&T until Nov. That makes me very sad. My 920 is getting rather long in the tooth, slow and laggy. The only option for an upgrade is the 1520 and it is just way too big. IPhone, even with the bigger screen, isn't an option because Apple.
  • Thats what im saying i really hope the november flagship is groundbreaking
  • me too.... They need to release a flagship that hits the major points many people are looking for.   The 930 was close but lacks a SD Card Slot and is not Glance capable.   I am assuming that such a phone will lack capacitive buttons.   While I am torn about having no capacitive buttons, lacking such and having a minimal bezel will maximize the display as well as adding to a sleek aesthetic. Really my main question is what will be the overal aethetic of the phone.  I really do like metalic phones and so I like the mockup that was done of a Surface Phone some time ago. http://jonas-daehnert.deviantart.com/art/Microsoft-Surface-Phone-Details-310468416?lapid=540m94975b18c0b1582ad141cd5c61d8d2dd
  • For a switch, I feel like Microsoft has done great this quarter and given us a fantastic software update, while Nokia has decided to sit it out for a while and do hardly anything hardware wise. Of course sales are down on the US... unless you're on Verizon, there is literally noting new to buy. And the 630 looks really weak to me.
  • +920
  • Nokia decided to sit it out forever...
  • I've said it before. Dump the US and concentrate on Europe, that's where the interest and money is. Seems to me the carrier is king in the States with silly unique models and that's crippling WP's freedom to grow.
  • Precisely! Invest more in the markets that are growing now. Then you make m-o-n-e-y.
    Next up; the world ;)
  • Actually Carriers make it a pain to upgrade to newer phones. Actually I know someone who wanted to upgrade from a feature phone and didn't because paying for internet on the smartphone is obligatory.
  • Europe is a small market and now Motorola has really good, cheap phones there to compete with the 520/630. The 520/630 has no real advantage compared to the Moto E/G. Only selling phones in Europe would mean Windows Phone is inches from death.
  • What steps need to be taken to improve WP U.S. market share?
  • Eliminate carrier exclusivity. Posted via the WPC App for Android!
  • My proposal is to move the Windows Phone base to the old Nokia base in Finland. Nokia didn't grow in the U.S. and it was number 1 phone manufacturer without having to use the US at all.
  • They seriously need to bring the Windows Phone marketing team from Europe to the US.
  • And Microsoft can brace themselves and get ready to lose A LOT of the European market. Don't believe it?! Just wait for the day Nokia branding is removed from the Lumia line.
  • Agree, Nokia is still our favorite company :)
  • ..and ironically, we have the opposite problem, 'Nokia' means nothing here in the US, which is probably why it's not doing well (the name sure doesn't help). Honestly, Microsoft branded phones would sell better than 'Nokia' here. That raises all sorts of interesting problems if you're in charge of sales for WP, ones that I'm glad I don't have to grapple with ;)
  • Interesting point, but I find that Nokia is still well known in the US. Many people had at one time a Nokia phone. The issue I find with the Nokia name in the US is relevance. Their marketing offers no sense of relevance to the wants of the US market, but they do have good name recognition. The question is when will they use it to their benefit.
  • Actually I see that'll make it bad overseas. I mean now they'll look at iPhone vs Android vs some new guy
  • Which is one of the main points why I was (and still am though now...wel...) against the deal. It was a very short-sighted move from Ballmer (and lets say "Ballmer" 'cause this was his whim and will). Ballmer acted American. He completely failed to see that the World outside the US works the other way around. And they were stupid enough (or Nokia refused...) to don't license the Nokia brand for smartphones at all. They didn't even need to use the Nokia brand in the US, as long as they used it internationally, the problem would be solved. Now they'll be trying to impose American solutions on international problems. Which generaly lead to failure.   Let's see.
  • yeah like the way Surface is selling like hot cake... right?
  • Good one, i also like DJCBS comment.. implementing US solution to international product, like introducing left hand drive cars globally :)
  • Maybe it is just a question of rebadging (Microsoft in the US, Nokia in Europe) as carmakers do. Basic and cheap marketing. I can not agree with you in the defense of the US centric strategy of MS. Despite the obvious problems, Europe is still capable of setting tendencies around the world. Of course not always and not in everything (not even the US can do that). So concentrating the efforts in an influential market that has good growth prospects makes sense for a global company like MS that should not give a damn (and surely doesn't) about where is based (except for taxes and labour costs) In the mid term it would benefit the MS strategy for the US. Anyway thank you for your active participation in this thread, it is refreshing and something that others should imitate, even in wpcentral. 
  • Removing a distinct feature like wireless charging was a bad move. I love my 1520 but lacks the wireless charging that my 920 had.
  • If the 1520 ever comes to Verizon then I'm on board. Anyone have any idea if that might happen? Looked all over for info on it and I get is stuff on the Icon. This exclusive to AT&T crap needs to stop! Posted via the WPC App for Android!
  • A very troublesome move by ATT...not sure what to expect for the L920 replacement when the 2year renewals comes beginning November. But since the L930 isn't coming to ATT, I'm hoping for something better with wireless charging.
  • But you only have AT&T to blame for that.
  • Wp will continue to lose market share in the us because Microsoft does not realise how important apps and games are to the success of a smartphone. Its been a week and we still have not gotten any word on what's app return to the marketplace, they don't seem to care about priority of apps. That is a huge deal breaker for some people, Games take months sometimes even a year when android and ios gets it 1 week apart from one another. Kids ask their parents for an iphone because of all the apps and games, there is no reason for kids or teens to be excited about windows phone
  • Agreed, apps and games are the MUST HAVES on a phone. Even if Microsoft is trying to promote Windows phone...we to do something too. You see, users are the soul of an OS users are the people that keep an OS alive. So we have to try to promote it by our selves. I heard so many times from my friends " Android is better" "Get an iPhone" etc these are users that they trying to promote their OS too.
  • Agreed.
  • THATS true.
    No response or action with whatsapp situation... Its better a regular product or app that no one at all. From Colombia, were WP is 2nd platform used. No Cortana or Bing rewards, but hey lets prepare Cortana for China because we are that smart... From my L925
  • "No response or action with whatsapp situation"
    Belfiore just tweeted about it a few days ago. I think you can argue it's not fast enough on the response, but they certainly have responded.
  • Actually I am a teenager.... call me a nerd but the only thing that's making me excited about WP is the idea of growing with the OS and what new things they give us every day and day. I mean things here on WP are getting better. The updates and such. They are building and want market share. So you see direct improvements. On Android and iOS you don't see anything new except on announcements and year after year improvements. That's less exciting for me. I guess that's the only thing that let me switch to WP. The only thing interesting on other platforms is the apps... which don't get new enhancements that much.
  • Not sure about iPhone, but on Android, the Google apps are constantly being updated. Every week one of the apps or even the framework is being updated with new features. Since it is tough to push out updates to Android itself, they have been updating it through the apps and Google Play Services. For example, not long ago a completely new camera app was released that added lens blur and an improved UI. Then last week the photos app was updated with more auto awesomes and gave you manual control. The new "Stories" feature is also really cool! If updates are your priority, then Android is definitely the strongest in that regard. Google is working constantly updating its already stellar services.
  • Well I do have another Android phone but... the updates you talk about are not CORE updates. I mean look at Cortana for instance. It can do things Google Now doesn't do(the reminders) and core features are added constantly. I mean the action center, even the Xbox music app. They provide a core change. On Android the updates are meh because there isn't anything changed. I mean Windows Phone is more prone to change to gain market share. (updates I talk about are whole OS changes, new(totally new) features that no one yet had come to yet) those are the updates I'm talking about. I mean the camera app and stories aren't a great feature. Nokia has an app that already has lens blur (Nokia refocus) and stories ain't a big deal either. I want REAL features. The ones like when action center came to Windows Phone. I know it IS tiresome but that's an OS that'll suit me . (although it is impossible as I would have to try new phone OSes as they come out and I doubt there will ever be another OS that doesn't support apks)
  • I think we need a serious hardware boost to go along with the OS advances. Stay the course!
  • One more comment. I can still get Blackberry's latest phone on any carrier yet their sales are worse than Microsoft's. What dynamic is taking place in the Canadian market that allows Blackberry to reach multiple carriers with their latest devices but not Microsoft/Nokia?
  • You know Blackberry is a Canadian company, right? That's the reason you still has a lot of Blackberry on any of your carriers even if the sales is terrible.
     
  • So on one hand market dynamics are working against Microsoft forcing exclusivity agreements but if its in Canada its telecom collusion to favour a phone nobody wants? Telecoms are publicly traded companies that care about their profits. It seems Blackberry maybe has better insight into how to deal with telecoms (something that has been written about by others that know more than I do).
  • Maybe by supporting Blacberry even though it doesn't have the market share that it used to be will help the only Canadian Cell phone company to go under. We can't really tell what's going on with Canadian carriers why they have more Blackberry's on their shelves compare to Windows Phone except them.
  • This carrier exclusivity is really hurting them
  • Microsoft/Nokia need to get some new phones out quick and so do the other manufacturers. Get WP8.1 out there and try to get some more big apps on the platform (and others updated). Need some top class advertisements too. Hope the US falls out of love with Apple/Samsung soon... Don't want this to always be a two horse race, pretty boring...
  • I think it is the local apps that are hitting windows phones. The big apps will always come eventually. Get the little apps that people use and then you will get more customers.
  • The sales dipped in the US because the Icon is only on Verizon, you idiots!
  • AT&T or T-Mobile could ask Nokia for their own unique 930, no? They have not. So, who's really to blame here?
  • I think that these carrier variants are bad for business and growth. I personally prefer the looks of the international and AT&T Lumia devices...aka Tue REAL version. The variants alwaysblose their personality and color. Posted via the WPC App for Android!
  • Maybe, but in BlackBerry's heyday that's what they did with great success.
  • Times have changed....Apple also dominated with carrier exclusivity.....how's that working for MSFT years later? Posted via the WPC App for Android!
  • The lack of demand is to blame, hence AT&T and T-Mo not asking Nokia-Microsoft for their own version of the 930. But it's very much a chicken and egg thing:  is the OS not popular due to a lack of devices for sale, or are a lack of devices for sale due to low demand? I like the OS, but this was always an uphill, likely losing battle for Microsoft.  By the time WP is combined with Windows 8 RT, and they share the same app store, it may be way too late to save.
  • Problem with Nokia is they keep doing exclusives. They need to sell the range to everyone not just one or two stores. Starting to bug me now. Used to be excited about Nokia but not lately. Maybe now they are focused rather than merger taking we see something good cone out.
  • Agreed, remove all of the variant confusion and introduce a universal 3-4 tier line up with new progressive models annually.
    Posted via the WPC App for Android!
  • The problem is not with Nokia. The problem is with the American market. There's no such thing as exclusives in Europe, nor anywhere else in the World. Only in the US do consumers allow such power to carriers.
  • If only Microsoft employees could read the numbers and increase support for more countries in Europe.
  • Also in this day and age of selfies they introduce low end phones with no front facing cameras. You want to reel those customers in by providing them with the complete experience no matter low end or high end.
  • I can't wait until Microsoft gets to the point of being able to decline the exclusive carrier rights for their mobile devices. Sure know it's nice to get a huge chunk of change up front, but they're limiting their growth by doing so. If they can continue to take a hit with the Surface, hopefully they'll begin to try the same with the Zuma lineup as well. I honestly feel the Lumia brand has a better chance at survival than the Surface brand.
    Posted via the WPC App for Android!
  • I an really having frustration to understamd Americans!!! Americans, what's your wrong with you? Don't tell me carrier exlcusivity bullsh*t, because you can buy it as international version.  Also Cortana comes for Americans, Bing Search was working great for Americans.  However, outside the US, the world is not perfect.  We cannot use Cortama, find my phone feature without changing region to US, Bing Search doesn't work. Only web page of bing.com comes without bing vision. You can buy Lumia 1520 around 450 US dollars, while we pay almost 750-1000 US dollars to buy it including VAT.  If that baby is sold in our country with a US price, it would be sold out just within a few hours!!!
  • I'm personally with T-Mobile, and without a version specifically released to them....I lose Wi Fi calling. A feature I'm not ready to give up. Not to mention l, international versions don't always have the proper specs to get the fastest available speeds with T-Mobile.
    Posted via the WPC App for Android!
  • Not to mention, carrier exclusivity is hurting sales. Average users in the US won't switch carriers for a phone, doesn't know about international versions or isn't willing or able to drop the up front cash for the international versions. I'm sure people have seen a friend who has a Lumia Icon or Lumia 1520 and wanted one....but when you go to T-Mobile or Sprint to get it, your only Windows Phone options are the Lumia 925 or 521 at T-Mobile, or a Samsung Ativ at Sprint. I personally wouldn't be caught with any of those 3 WP devices. The 925 is the best option, but the specs are dated.
    Posted via the WPC App for Android!
  • "Don't tell me carrier exlcusivity bullsh*t, because you can buy it as international version. "
    Um, no we can't. People buy phones on contracts and don't pay $600 for a new phone. You have to order it online and very few actually do that (most phones are still bought in the store). Also, we have unique LTE spectrum here so your 'international' phones are almost worthless (no LTE, in most cases). Factor in that 2 out of the 4 major carriers use a thing called CDMA for voice, and you have a bigger problem. Look, we have different markets and dynamics. We're also a single country of 320 million people, covering 2,200 miles. It's just different here. I don't agree with it, but the things that drove us to this point are different than what drove a country with 30 million who is the size of Texas. Just saying.
  • Just put the Bing vision icon on the top of the Cortana page. Easy fix! Come on Microsoft..
  • I just realized that there is weak weakest and poor marketing of windows phone. Further more, these people at Microsoft not taking the power of windowsphone seriously.
  • It doesn't help that Microsoft stupidly only released the ICON on Verizon.  
  • Umm...Verizon put their money where their mouth is and asked for that device. AT&T did not. AT&T could ask for a "931", couldn't they and play the same game? Just saying, carriers here are the ones who actually order the phones. You, the customer are second in line.
  • Another reason to start cattering to us Europeans first and foremost; we're the ones buying the bloody phones!
  • Windows phone has so much potential. It's so awesome I'm in love with it. Android really sucks arse. Microsoft needs to be faster to surpass iOS.
  • Attitude!
    Well what do you think from an organisation whose CEO once said, “There’s no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance. It’s a $500 subsidized item.” There you have it, attitude is what is lacking at MS. File explorer, FM radio, dual sim, otg, apps deemed essential (WA and others), the list goes on. If you are a late comer its good to get on with the program. Should have and need to embrace Google services, yes outlook is good but not as polished as... Why MS thought it was a good thing to loose functionality from Symbian os to it beats me. The Boston model!?
  • Yeah that sucks for WP in the US !!
  • Windows Phone will be successful eventually. It doesn't have to be 2nd, it just has to be a strong 3rd. With at least 10% market share worldwide but most importantly in the US. Its attainable and I believe that when this whole transition of Nokia is complete and Microsoft starts to push hard since Windows RT and phone will he merging, that things will turn around. And as far as developers go, I'm optimistic as Microsoft is changing Windows and merging the desktop and metro environments to allow for the use of metro styled apps on desktop. More people will eventually use these apps and since windows had such a large user base, this will help with the development of Windows Phone. By the end of next year Microsoft should be at 10% of sales in the US with Windows Phone. Im confident in that happening
  • I agree with everything you've said, but I don't know if WP will be at 10% here in the US by the end of next year.   With luck it will.
  • There's always the "but" word when I read about WP market share, never a "WP is growing" period, I'm starting to consider an xperia or anything else
  • Part of the reason is the stupid "carrier exclusive" phones, and that SIM lock is legal in the US....
  • Lack of sales and basic phone training in stores, there is no enthusiasm from the reps.
  • The US numbers don't surprise me. I don't know about Verizon, but the staff at AT&T will not sell you a Windows Phone unless you ask. Right now if you ask a ATT rep what is the best phone they will tell you the iPhone 5s...and if you ask for an Android phone they will tell you to get a Galaxy S5 or S4 with the Galaxy 10.1 pad special. A friend of mine just got a S5 Saturday, but while she was waiting for a rep she stumbled on the L1520. She loved the screen and asked the rep about the phone. The rep told her that Candy Crush wasn't available on it and she would be unhappy with it...the end result was the S5 because the iPhone screen was too small. The sad part is that my friend never heard of Candy Crush, so it wasn't important to her. Unfortunately as long as ATT is discouraging sales of WPs it's going to be a while before WP starts seeing sales...new phones or not.
  • They're going to keep dipping until they stop with the carrier exclusive BULLSHIT. No one switches carriers for a phone anymore. 
  • True, but carriers are the ones who buy the phones (and ask for them). Customers are the second in line. Just wishing that will change won't change things.
  • A new color and a "point one" update aren't going to do anything for sales in the US. Microsoft need since new exciting flagship devices to get hype and compete with the new iPhone, and solid low priced ones to compete with Android.
    Where is the hype for their new devices? Everyone knows about the next Samsung Galaxy and iPhone six months before they arrive. Where's the successor to the L1020? For that matter, anyone seem an Ad for the L1520 lately? Do potential Note buyers even know it exists?
    Step up MS! Don't let the Europeans have all the fun! They already get the best food! (well, perhaps not in the UK) :D
  • The next big device will be in November and it's a big deal device, imo. Bigger than anything we've seen so far.
  • Can you please share some details? 
  • Ooooh. Well of course we all want to know the secrets you do! How many free shots will it take to get you to spill the beans?
    Here's a little question you may be able to answer: November release or November announcement? Hoping the former as they really need to get those holiday sales!
  • What the heck Daniel? November. November. November. How many times have you replied to people on this post, telling people to wait for Goldfinger in November becasue it's going to be so awesome it'll make you shoot rainbows out your arse? Seems to me like you have a big tin of beans that you're waiting to spill, so spill them already! (At least let one or two drop to the floor... NDA be dammed). I'm going to be very disapponted if I finally replce my L800 with a L930 (when/if it finally lands here in Australia around August), only to learn that if I'd just waitedd a three months more I could've got whatever Goldfinger is going to be. C'mon Daniel, drop a hint... 1030 maybe? 
  • Must be US exclusive.
  • AT&T exclusive no doubt
  • Thank you for the confirmation.   I really hope it hits the most significant features people are looking for, if not we are talking about yet another Goldilocks where the porridge is not quite right.
  • My contract is up end of October. It best have a micro SD slot or i may jump ship back to Android and also keep my 1020
  • Better cameras system than on the 1020 (hey, they've had a year to improve, right), quad core, dedicated graphics processor, removable storage, and available in normal and 1520 sized versions. That's all I need :D
  • People know WP lacks quality apps....so that's one huge reason there is never any hype, aside from fans like ourselves. Galaxy and iPhone have proven success and Samsung has the best marketing team in the mobile space --- I almost find my self wanting a Galaxy after seeing ads, then I remember that TouchWiz will make your device run like a single core with 512 MB RAM. Posted via the WPC App for Android!
  • How long do you think it will take Satya to poach Samsung's Marketing Team and broom the US Windows Phone marketing group?
  • I am on an Android and these apps looks like shit compared to Windows. Posted via Windows Phone Central App
  • I have to agree, the quality of Apps on Android is very hot and miss. Even some of the much lauded ' Official' Apps are pretty bad compared to the rather tasty look of a Metro styled App
  • They need to finally start releasing their high end phones on all the carriers at the same time and cut this exclusivity crap out.
  • Yes the exclusivity is just stupid. The market share is too low for it.
  • The low market share in the US means Carriers can demand exclusives or not offer the phones. Chicken and egg problem.
  • Microsoft failed. Pay snapchat to release an app. And pay some others to release real apps. Young people are the target market. Young people want apps
  • Here in the USA Windows Phone will never grow if new phones don't come out on every major carrier. I have an upgrade next month on Sprint, unfortunately I can't choose a WP because they only carry and HTC and Samsung, a to of the line or midrange Lumia writing have had me.
  • The choices with Sprint suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks!
  • Microsoft needs to unveil something groundbreaking. Otherwise in mobile they will always be third best.
  • I really don't think it has to be groundbreaking, that can wait for another iteration.   What I want to see for this next iteration is a phone that really checks of the majority of the desired features.   And for me that is a 930 type phone with a SD Card Slot and a Glance capable display...
  • I will definitely be picking up a 635 from Telus :)
  • And we don't have bing 100%, nor cortana in other languages (Spanish for example) or the half of things that in the USA, where its market is waning...
  • A question for americans. Are there exclusivities for Galaxy S5 and others??
  • Not the S5 or any of the iPhones
  • No, because those phones actually sell. iPhone started out as an exclusive and people liked it so it sold really well. This prompted the other carriers to pursue iPhone. Galaxy S started similarly with different phones on each carrier they did well enough to have the same phone on all. Windows Phone doesn't sell at all, so they haven't been able to leverage their way into the carriers. Carriers are not going to waste shelf space on something that doesn't sell.
  • I see, so the Windows Phone needs make first at At&t for other carriers to sell it. Well, I think for actual scenario will not work for WP. Maybe a good solution would Microsoft sell unlocked phones. I don't know if it's possible in US. But I think this is the real reason to the fail.
  • The Windows brand has a stigma in the US. It has a monopoly on desktops so it is basically the only choice in that segment for customers with legacy software. There is a ton of competition in mobile, so the Windows name becomes a liability. People hear Windows and think blue sceens and viruses even if that isn't reality these days. It just isn't cool, there is no getting around it. Without rebranding, Microsoft is going to have a tough time in mobile. Windows should stick to desktops while Mobile needs to distance itself with a new brand and feel.
  • Oke, The Netherlands: MS, can we get a XboxONe? MS: No, not yet.
    MS, can we get Cortana in Dutch? MS: No
    MS, can we get a docking station for the Surface PRO 2? MS: Well, NO.
    MS, can we get a powercover for the Surface PRO 2? MS: Again, we say No to you in The Netherlands.
    MS, when do we get WhatsApp back in the store?, MS, hello MS .... I am about to think only fools and horses buy MS products.
  • I fail to see why anyone would buy one of Samsung's butt-ugly phones. It's the mobile phone equivalent of a pine tree air freshener. Sure, I suppose it does the job, but it ain't pretty.
  • *highfive*
  • Obviously people don't think it is ugly. I am not a huge fan of the plastic or UI, but the bezels are minimal and the screens are great. Not to mention that they do everything Windows Phone does and more. Much more. Also, it has a full app store. You would not be missing any apps with a Galaxy S and you would be confident that next months hot app will be available. The downsides to Windows Phone are too great and the stigma behind Windows is strong. Unless Microsoft rebrands, they will have a tough time cracking the consumer market.
  • They do everything that Windows Phone does and more because they're running Android; Samsung has very little to do with it. IMHO, the S3 was the peak of the Galaxy S line! It was original, thin, light weight, etc. The most recent versions are too big to put in a pocket, have a horrible soft touch coating that feels cheap, horrid , half-baked fingerprint reader that should have been excluded, and whomever picked out the pattern and colors for the new back covers should be tried at The Hague. I do wish that more manufacturers would build water resistant hardware, so I'll give them that one. The HTC One M8 is by far more attractive and equal on most other qualities. Hell, Samsung spends more on marketing and advertising (at least for 2013) than Apple and Microsoft spend combined, times four.
  • Of course Sales will dip.  Hell the U.S doesnt even  Have a new windows phone.  Espeically with the whole 8,1 thing in motion.   Everytime we get a speculated release date.. it gets pushed back.  first it was may, then june.  now they are talking  july to end of 2014 for some OEMs.  I love the platform but not enough to continue using this 7.8 mango focus 2.  Im ready to upgrade or be done with windows phone. 
  • Yup. No new products= no sales.  It's not exactly genius business insight, but then you'd think Microsoft would be cracking with phone releases (given that they own the Nokia phone division now).
  • We need regular release dates. Right now its near impossible to predict when the next iteration of any of the models will take place. We also haven't had anything really good since the 1020, and there hasn't been a flagship device that has everything since the 920 (930 loses glance and isn't even available in the US. Basically its been too quiet on the flagship side of WP for it to keep breaking through the ice.
  • so true, so very true
    (although I wonder when the 1520 was released)
  • I really hope Microsoft in general starts seeing the world as not just US, and Americans can only benefit of that too.
    Btw lots of phones you cant get in some countries actually are bought from US stores, so don't think is all internal market
  • In all honesty, sad but true, it comes down to accessories. Not only are Android and iPhone accessories EVERYWHERE, you can't find WP accessories anywhere but Amazon or the Microsoft Store. I walk into Best Buy all the time, I take a stroll through their mobile department, and all you see is accessories for iPhones, EVERYWHERE. They have four groups of shelving dedicated to the iPhone. Android has one group of shelving. (Now, keep in mind, the one shelf they have for Android, is a mix for all crappy phones to the more higher end Android.) Not a single accessory for WP. I even ask everytime I visit if I could be pointed in the right direction, they all just kind of look at each other and shrug their shoulders. Even going into a random Dollar Store in the middle of no where in Ohio (visiting family, I live in Chicago) had iPhone accessories!! SERIOUSLY. This is FREE marketing. Don't get me started on the At&t stores. I happen to live near one of the biggest flagship stores, right on Michigan Ave. They have one case for maybe two WP's. If you walk around this huge store, iPhone accessories are so vast, I keep bumping my knees on them. It's ridiculous! I found the mophie iPhone case under the display model of the Nokia 925
  • Another dip?  US had a dip last month too.  3 successive dips is a recession.
  • or a very good guacamole... We've hardly had much in the way of new releases, so these dips don't surprise me much at all and apparently we're not due for a big release until November. cue crying....
  • It doesn't help when everyone who sells phones to the common customer heavily advises against buying WP.
  • That's probably why some features are only available in U.S. Good thinking MS.
  • There is a lot of talk her about the market in Europe, India and the poor sale in the USA. Has anyone considered the one Market thats crucial in order to boost sales of WP? Yes I'm speaking about the Middle east/ GCC. The only two phones sold here are Samsung and iPhone. Except for the UAE (United Arab Emirates) there has been a really poor marketing stratergy when it comes to Qatar, Oman, Saudi and Kuwait. Until a few years ago even after the release of Android and iOS people here prefered a Nokia (Symbion) phone or a Blackberry over Samsung. Samsung used to be considered inferior, toy and a joke as the ranks started to change and everyone who could afford one started to carry a iphone. Samsung thrusted them selves into agressive marketing, demos, TV adds, offers and add education. There were other android phones on the market like Sony, Motorolla but they lacked the marketing of Samsung. This changed the heirarchy now its Samsung, iphone (if you can afford one), Blackberry (Because BBM is what fules communication here) and finally Nokia. People sometimes dont even know what windows phone is. This is dude to non existant marketing here in the GCC. P.S. People are sometimes amazed when I show them my phone (Lumia 925) and especially when I do a little Cortana demo.  
  • mispost 
  • I agree with the carrier exclusivity being BS. I've been wanting to get a new Windows phone but have been holding out because my carrier only has two and compared to the rest of the Windows phone lineup they are substantially"low end".
  • I really do agree on the whole MSFT unlocked phone idea, I mean look at apple's online store.
    It's the second largest online web shop in the world, is so incredibly easy and simple that I might buy by accident if I was drunk.
    I do get that all those countries and laws make it difficult to push out at the same time but they should start ahead.
    Get things ready before you announce or mass produce any phone and if you got most of them settled announce and release within the month; catching the hype better.
  • Daniel, where can i find the wallpaper of the Lumia 1520? I love it!
  • US is so weird. It's the only place where people actually bought BlackBerry lol
  • Apparently that's not the case.   BlackBerry is making a push in Indonesia with a Jakarta version.   It seems BlackBerry was HUGE there and BB has hopes of rekindling interest there and spreading from Indonesia into east Asia.
  • Hey exclusive hurt.always new and exciting Android devices but WP. Only a few that stand out. State side its all AT&T
  • I'm going to hit a few demographics with this post... First off, let me (Jewish, m, 25) just say that it wasn't until Janruary 2013 that I got my first smartphone. That's a whopping six years since the first iPhone was released. My devices of choice on Verizon were a Lumia 822 or an HTC 8x. I opted for the latter based on a forum discussion which took place on this site. An almost-there repair, an insurance refurb replacement which shattered within three days, and a brand new insurance replacement resulted in my local Microsoft Store exchanging the brand new 8x for an Icon. Before somebody gets hoity-toity, I have many Microsoft products and subscriptions including Xbox Live since about 2004, two Office 365s, Xbox Music Pass... I was on the fence about the Xbox One and this "exchange" forced my hand. I am a fan of Microsoft. So that's me. I got a Jamaican friend (f, 24) a 520 for Christmas. I got my mother (Jewish, 60) a 521 when her iPhone was stolen. Both have remained on the platform but for aesthetic and superficial reasons, specifically software design and price (it did cost me though). It would be difficult to explain to many people what the benefits of WP8.1's closed system vs. the feeble security of Android. Or i could chime in on the ability to remove almost all carrier bloat (the exception being their metric background processes) like iOS. I could then relay the effect that has on the device's battery usage. But at the end of the day, the fact stands, most people could give two shits bout the efficiency and security of a closed platform. So long as it looks good. So where did Windows phone really win? PRICE I say did because prior to the release of the Moto G, a dual-core full equipped modern OS with a questionable but acceptable screen at $40-60 is simply Wow! Even a 4 year old iPhone would go for over $100. That changed with the Moto G. When my father (Jewish, 67) dropped his phone in the pool today, I immediately offered up my Icon. He didn't want it. He has grown accustomed to Android. The Moto G with a quad core processor and a 720p was more than acceptable at $70. Dare say it was good deal even with the absence of LTE. Which brings up the next most important selling point on these devices? THE SCREEN Even the less techy savvy are beginning to pickup on the importance of resoltion. Or in 18th century terms, not all screens are created equal. 480p just doesn''t cut it anymore. The 630 was an underwhelming announcement, as was the 635. The whole 8.1 line is a microcosm of the US socio-economic situation. With pun intended, I see no resolution in sight. And without real insight as to the demographics of users, it is difficult to form an honest opinion as to what's going on. In any case, vive le france! With a huge shoutout to Rudy Huyn!
  • Yes, I do agree that it is too bad the 521 no longer has the lower end of the market almost to itself.    And of course that is where the majority of WP's share increases came from....
  • Of course... but the device class is only half the picture. What I left out in the original comment is that my mother had her iPhone for a total of 1 month before  she switched to WP. Hardly enough time to form a connection to the OS. While my friend is also on her first  "smartphone" with WP. In both instances... new users. Why try to convince users to switch? It just seems so much easier to grab first-time smartphone buyers. Most of the younger segment (our demographic) got "smartphones" long ago. Most of the new users are in the older demographics and toddlerhood. So how can these prospective users be allured? Dunno, but it seems MS France is doing a fine job at connecting to the population at large. If I'm not mistaken, Sony had an amazing PS2 marketing campaign in France. So the marketing in the States might need improving. Problem with such a young country, it's cultural identity is so varied making it difficult to reach everybody. I've started seeing some mullato NFL quarterback talking about his surface pro 2 at the barbershop. On the safeside, but it fails to evoke any real connection to the product. No motion, no emotion, just blah blah. MS should really get a new marketing firm and seriously rethink their startegy. Perhaps it could go on a negative campaign. No, not scroogled. Don't go after the company, but the product. Android is insecure and bloated. iOS is overpriced. Or take the intellectual route. Think a serious commercial headlined by Satya Nadella expressing the strengths of Windows Phone. Security, Sharing internet, Cortana. I mean how often does the CEO of one of the world's most valuable companies take time out of his day to talk to you? You better listen. He's just a genuinely amazing speaker with a presence that exudes class. But I get the feeling MS will screw the pooch AGAIN and totally emphasize Cortana in lambasted fashion. Balmer infected the company with so many people that think commercially. I digress because unless Microsoft wants to hire me to conduct marketing research, my opinions evaporate into the clouds. But thanks for the shared sentiment b23h. I suggest you take a look at the Sony's French marketing. http://kotaku.com/youll-never-unsee-this-gallery-of-grotesque-playstatio-1554417734  
  • That French marketing quite something.   I'd have to see it, but it seems a bit much.   As far as the states, I've seen that ad with the quarterback and as I've not watched football in years I don't know who he is, however it's a better ad than I've seen in a while.   The ad with the woman at the coffee house is also ok.   They are certainly much better than the dancing surface ads.    Yes, Microsoft often messes up their messaging campaigns, it is very unfortunate. There's a particular premise in behavior modification that I think of often, if you want to change someone's behavior you cannot just rely on a critique, you must also point out a potential solution.   So if MS was to critique the other OS's they also need to present WP as a reasonable alternative (which I think by-in-large means emphasizing the major apps that WP has in its' store). Personally I am not sure the critiques you've used are compelling enough to base a campaign around, I think to some degree MS really needs to hammer home the positive points about WP taking into account the typical critique.
  • speaking of sh*tty MS messaging... Microsoft Windows 95 Video Guide with Jennifer Aniston and Matthew Perry
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGYcNcFhctc#t=1243
  • Ha. lol. More proof to their innefiective pudding... My fam skipped 95... the folks switched the house PC from Windows 3.1 to Windows 98 R2.  
  • Not me, I bought 3.1, 3.11 and a upgrade version of 95.   Then I found newsgroup warez and the Agent program and being a poor student proceded to hit every bump that was a MS release.   That included hideous releases like Windows ME...   Windows 98 SE was certainly a good release, the best till Windows XP.   All my OS from XP on are all legit, although early XP Pro I had more than a few blue list, I think they were called.
  • You must be going bald old man.
  • no baldness
  • lol
  • Also like with WPC 90% it more do not have WP8.1 as of yet but every article is about apps and such that most can not have yet or the low to mid range offer. WP is still very exclusive as in the high end range. If a large screen iPhone came to T-MO US I would give it a strong look at.WP devices of high quality are pretty much locked in exclusives. That hurt overall growth.
  • I'm very disappointed that Microsoft/Nokia did not have a stable of phones ready to go with the release of 8.1.   Much of 2014 will be dead on arrival here in the US when instead it could have been timed with the release of 8.1. The timing of the aquisition, the fact that the 930 does not have an SD Card Slot or Glance and is still a Verizon exclusive in the US means that 2014 is by in large a wasted opportunity.   WP 8.1 is a significant enough release with Cortana and a Notification Center to have provided a catalyst for sales of a new stable of phones.... It looks as if the US is now waiting for November!      WTF!!!!!1
  • I am a part of that US dip. My 1020 broke. Dropped it on concrete. So I picked up a cheap Android until we get a 1020 successor. Then back to WP for me.
    Posted via Windows Phone Central App
  • My 1020 was great before. But since the 8.1 update it is now astounding. Camera burst mode is superb now. I am poised to become a. Wireless sales agent for Rogers in Canada. I'll single handedly bring up the market share. :)
  • Its disappointing to see WP sales dip, but it's not surprising at all.  They released only two new devices and were both exclusive to a single carrier, not to mention WP 8.1 was not offered out of the box, a lot of people probably don't know about the developer preview, I probably wouldn't have if I didnt follow WP news, which I dont believe a lot of people in general do.  They need a carrier wide device that has WP 8.1 on it. Along with proper advertisement to emphasize the changes.
  • very true...
  • My 925 broke so I got a s4. It actually has a good case. And let me tell you - this phone has a lot of features that Windows Phone is missing. They have been looking at the iPhone too much. That's part of the dip. Then comes the carrier. Next, the people. No one knows about Windows phone and will only listen to the hype. If these problems are solved they would do better. Posted via Windows Phone Central App
  • What's the name of the weather app of Daniel Rubino??
  • Can't believe it's almost June and we haven't seen more variety. There's no time to lay low. I'm ready to see the next wave of 8.1 devices with Micro SD capability
  • I have a feeling that once the 'Nokia' branding is removed, those European sales figures are going to fall through the floor.  The brand, even while down in the dumps, was always very strong in Europe. Microsoft doesn't hire stupid people; they must know that that's coming.
  • UNTIL THEY START SPENDING MONEY ON WINDOWSPHONE IN THE USA..WP WILL NEVER BE SUCCESSFUL... Facebook,vine etc will not do it..
  • No product, no decent advertising, no sale.
  • Ever since the launch of Nokia Lumia 1520, WP launches have slowed down considerably. No wonder sales are going down. I miss those times when Nokia was releasing so many phones at many different price ranges. It seems to me the momentum Nokia managed to build back then is already lost by now.
  • I am not surprised that windows phone sales are not doing well. Microsoft needs to take a really hard look at how they are marketing the Windows phones. 1. I have not found any carriers and their sales staff pushing or offering windows phones at any locations except the one close to me in North Bergen, NJ. That was T-mobile, but other than that store no other tmobile store has offered a windows phone on less i specifically asked for one. when i asked about the latest offering for windows phone the clerk told me that windows phone sucked. If i didn't know better and listened to his narrow advice that would have been one less customer. 2. The whole thing about carrier exclusivity is really killing WP sales. I used to have Verizon and ATT and i went to t-mobile a few years back. Even though I want a 1520 really bad it is not enough for me to go back to any of the mentioned carriers. Why do i have to chose my phone by carrier and not by the model i like. It is beyond me. I would have upgraded to a 1520 a long time if i had the chance. I am currently stuck with my 925 which I really like. But if i could i would have paid full price for a 1520. One less sale for MS/Nokia, what a shame. I guess i have to wait till TM will get their 1520 variant.
  • So reading Daniel's posts and plumbing my intution I would say that the US carriers that will be able to get 'Goldfinger' are waiting for it and those that cannot are likely waiting for Verizon's exclusive hold on the 930 to end.      Is AT&T the only US carrier to get Goldfinger?? Edit: apparently Daniel thinks that it is possible Goldfinger will come out on all/most US carriers! Hosanna!!  
  • Now i have Lumia 630 WP8.1 and the only perfect is Cortana. Guys the platform Windows phone is not good enough. Do you see Windows phone store? is awful. Without good apps. Now only scroogle android for me. This only my choice. iphone sucks. MICROSOFT CHANGE UI and SUPPORT DEVELOPERS FOR APPSSSSSS. This is so difficult? Bye for now. Maybe back with Windows phone 9. Give us Cortana for Windows 8.1. Finally i will buy Amazing machine SURFACE PRO 3 (this is perfect from Microsoft)
  • Off topic, what is the clock/calendar app on Daniels phone?
  • If you hop over to the forums you'll find a thread completely disproving your statement. Small market? WP in the EU5 is outselling the US 2:1.
  • If windows phones stopped coming out as carrier exclusives they'd sell better.
  • Well you know the answer: make more Microsoft stores in the US for no one to go to and leave us here in the UK in the dark.
  • MS gets no love in US. People are just afraid of new sophisticated thing. 
  • Glad that India doesn't has these carrier problems.