Photography site 500px abandoning Windows Phone and Windows 8.1 apps

Another day and another blow to Microsoft's struggling platform. This afternoon, popular photography site 500px sent out an email to members announcing that they were discontinuing support for their Windows Phone and Windows 8.1 apps at the end of April (Chrome OS was also listed).

Indeed, the 500px Windows 8.1 app is already unavailable, although the Windows Phone one – last updated in January – is still listed.

The email, entitled 'Reevaluating our 500px Apps', explained the reasoning behind the move:

"As the 500px community grows, we're faced with the ongoing challenge of reevaluating our product lineup. This ensures our team can focus on the products that will enable and reward visual creativity for the most people at the highest standards of quality.""With that in mind, I'm writing to share that our Windows Phone, Windows 8 and Google Chrome OS applications will be discontinued at the end of April. Members using these devices are encouraged to use our website at"

Luckily for users, there are plenty of well-reviewed third-party 500px apps to use on both platforms. Nonetheless, it is yet another chink in Microsoft's armor and more bad press as they head into next week's Build developers event in San Francisco.

Thanks, René G, and others for the tips!

Daniel Rubino

Daniel Rubino is the Editor-in-chief of Windows Central, head reviewer, podcast co-host, and analyst. He has been here covering Microsoft since 2007 when this site was called WMExperts (and later Windows Phone Central). His interests include Windows, Microsoft Surface, laptops, next-gen computing, and for some reason, watches. Before all this tech stuff, he worked on a Ph.D. in linguistics and ran the projectors at movie theaters, which has done absolutely nothing for his career.

  • Long live the NADELA
  • I was a big Nadella supporter - but now I am not that sure. Under Satya's leadership, Microsoft is too busy rolling out all WP exclusive crown-jewel apps to other platforms - heck iOS versions are even better than our WP versions (office, outlook etc). Now unless you are a blind fanboy - or run a Win/WP blog, you have zero reson to buy a windows phone. This guy Satya is taking Microsoft the Yahoo way - be content / software provider to all platforms. Some may say MS is headging its bets. To me, this indicates they have already accepted defeat. There is something seriously wrong with your priorities when Microsoft team has no time to update apps like Lockscreen (which Belfore even promoted on stage) but has enough time to develop 4-5 apps for Apple watch -which hardly anybody uses yet! Nobody wants to stay on with a losing platform - and if you don't support your own platform (or at least be seen supporting) - no third party will support it either.
  • Their strategy is Mobile First.  They don't say which mobile, however. They've either 1) lost the opportunity for WP or 2) it will take many, MANY more years for WP to be regarded in the same level as iOS and Android.  In either scenario, MS would be missing a larger opportunity to ignore the other platforms.  For me, the fact that I can now get my must-have apps on iOS has me seriously considering iOS when I am T-Mo JUMP elligible.  I NEVER thought I would say that.
  • +1 I am in the same boat. After being with WP forever - Samsung Focus, Lumia 710, 810, 925 and now 1520. I never thought I would say that, but it is very difficult to resist moving on to iPhone 6+ or even 6. I will not miss anything from MS ecosystem - iOS has better versions of almost all things I want, plus other apps (banks etc) I may need. I don't get how MS profits by all these ad-free, FREE apps on iOS and Android - not a single iphone or Android person I know uses Outlook, onedrive or any MS service even after all these apps - forget about them being tied to MS ecosystem. It is a sad state for WP and coming from one of the biggest fanboys of WP that I consider myself, it says a lot. One thing holding me back is how will I face those 5-6 friends and family members who I have converted to WP in all those years :(
  • You obviously are not a windows fanboy if you're leaving. My phone is still 10x better than any iPhone or android. Long live windows and windows 10 will prove to everyone.
  • +630
  • Why does the world still buy an iPhone and not up precious Windows phone Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • They don't know about WP, WP is not as cool or bad rumors. Pick one.
  • We know about WP. I used it for a couple years. Now I'm on the other side of the fence and the grass really is greener in either the iOS or Android farms.
  • One must remember it was not always like this. When WP7 was rolling out many people where hot on it. When it came out missing a function that every device had C&P from that point on the OS took a bath. Heck it took Microsoft 4months to issue that update.
  • Argument 1: Because people are obsessed with apps like retrica that are not available on windows phone Argument 2 : how will buy a phone with ms apps that he already can download it on this phone  ............. and many other , i am so tired ....
  • Carrier reps. They bash WP all the time.
  • I had similar reaction to you when Tom Warren from the verge decided to go iPhone. From traitor to good for nothing .... hurled all abuses on him on his blog and twitter! Unfortunately I see where he came from now. Sad part is, its going downhill instead of things inproving for guys like Tom to come back or even continue using WP. I may still wait till Win10 comes out and if things improve after that launch - but if its still bad, I will give up after 5+ years of supporting WP (brought my focus holidays 2010 if I remember correctly .. good days, high hopes!)
  • Fanboy or not he has a completely valid point. I was once a "screw that buy a windows phone" as I do love alot of the integration between the eco system but I had to retire my hat (and my wifes) about two months ago and bow down to the iPhone 6+ (from the Lumia 1520) and I am sorry but the iOS versions of even Microsoft's app's work very damn well on iOS and their just is flat out tons of developer support on these other platforms. I also have written app's on Windows 8 and Windows Phone 7 and 8 and wish it would have gotten more traction but it just has not and it flat out sucks. Windows 10 may be its saving grace but until then we can only wait and see. As a side note I will say the auto-correction (texting) and lack of Cortona support is a HUGE sore thumb on iOS. Siri does not do alot of stuff I used to do with my Windows Phones. So I will be happily waiting for Cortona to be available on iOS :]
  • About Cortana, one problem is that it's not available in many non-English countries and there's no indication that it will be in a near future either. Siri, or Google Now for that matter, may not be as good, but they're available at least.
  • Only thing worse than a fanboy is a delusional fanboy.
  • Prove what? That even with a new shiny OS, there's still an app gap the size of Kim K's ass? I love Microsoft, and 90% of the products they put out. I have 2 Windows 8.1 machines, a 8.1 tablet, and an Xbox One, but there's no way I can live without some apps such as Google Hangouts and my banking apps when I'm on the go. I wish my iPhone 6 had live tiles though, thats for sure  - It's quite the boring grid of icons. 
  • It's easy to get best of both worlds. I've got long live Lumia 920, SP2, Xbox1, and Galaxy Note 8. (best 8" tablet and access to enjoy Android apps not on windows). Looking forward to #lumia1041
  • I'm sure some people will downvote you but you're spot on. I love WP and have a bunch of their devices but recently moved to iPhone 6+. It is so nice in comparison to the WP app experience. Most of the MS apps work better on iOS than on WP, Office is a prime example of this, the WP app has always been a joke. I know that will change in Windows 10, but why wait for an app that isn't ready when you can use a well tested and used version of Office right now. Most of the things I loved about WP are being removed anyways. MS seems doomed to repeat the same mistake of tearing everything down and rebuilding with every major update. As a developer I can completely understand why major app developers no longer want to support WP, Windows 10 will be at least the 4th major change do the SDK, you'd have to be crazy to want to invest so much time having to adapt to Microsoft's lack of direction.
  • Same here, i'll be moving to Android or iOS soon. My first windows phone was the amaizing LG Optimus 7,i've been with WP ever since it was launched but enough is enough, i'm not going to invest in another WP Device, at this point its not worth it anymore.
  • I highly recommend the iPhone 6+ it has been super fast and now with Apple pay being supported all over it has been pretty nice so far. But by all means that Note 4 and Galaxy S6 are pretty damn sexy also.
  • Everything you said is true. There are some beautiful new flagships on iOS and Android right now. It' doesn't make sense to wait around for Microsoft to throw us some table scraps. 
  • iOS lacks LIVE TILES and the simplicity of Win OS and I cannot live without either of the two. FULL STOP...
  • Same. I even tried an iphone 6 for a week. Hated it.
  • I know what you mean, I like having a quick glance at my start screen to get a quick view of my texts,emails,flipboard ect.. The only thing I keep my iPhone5 around for is 1 banking app (the others are available). As for my one plus one, the only thing that gets used for is random ricing and that's about it.
  • How profitable is a service limited to a platform that barely exists?
  • Well, now that I am in Android, don't affect me much but sad to see this Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Lol me too. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • The sad truth is that the windows central app on Android is much better with more functionality and it's free Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Lol thought the same thing when I made the jump from my L1020 to S4. Everything is better over here I'm afraid. Except the camera. Long live that beast :'| Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Actually, the Android OS is complete shit. The only things better on your Android device is the app store. Everything else is worse, from the OS to the camera.
  • Not to mention that shitty android keyboard.
  • Which Android keyboard are you referring to? The stock one that could simply be exchanged for Swiftkey or any other of the great third party keyboards?
  • There are Android phones with bad cameras and great ones. And let's not be to so blind as to say that the OS just plain sucks. Take off your blinders, they all provide a different and unique experience that's good in their own ways.
  • Surprised to see this comment because my business partner was just telling me yesterday that he thought the Android app is worse. He couldn't find a way to get notifications as articles are posted and that means he can't get the notifications on his Moto360. I've not used it personally but that's what he told me, possible we couldn't find the appropriate setting though.
  • Nadella has to keep the business running. And that means they have to support the more profitable platforms. They know WP is not gonna reap much harvest. People need to understand that Nadella is the CEO of Microsoft, and not of Windows Phone. WP is just a small part of their business and if its not profitable then they have to offer their services on other platforms otherwise they'll be dead as a company.
  • Windows phone is just a time pass hobby for them, they have nothing to loose Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Unfortunatly you are right, MS is a Much bigger company than just WP; WP ist just a samll part of the pie and lest be honest iOS and Android have the most part of it, I'n not giving up to the plataform, but at this rate, It's gonna take years to WP to grow, I read lot of people saying; W10 is gonna change thing's up, and probably will, but every day more and more developers are leaving  the plataform, ok, might be small developers or so, but the thing is they are leaving, and I'm not liking that, for the good of us all, I hope WP could become third force on OS, otherwise we'r facing a Duopoly and that's no good
  • Well said.
  • Nadella has to keep the business running. And that means they have to support the more profitable platforms. Just how much does MSFT make from publishing Office, Outlook, OneNote, etc on Android and iOS? Oh, that's right, none because MSFT GIVES THEM AWAY! Microsoft missed the boat, and can't swim fast enough to grab hold of the life belt. It's slowly sinking into irrelevance. And that's a huge shame, as the company is no longer the FUDding beast it once was.
  • This has been said a million times but it bears repeating. 1. There is no point in developing the current crop of office-centric apps and services on Windows Phone. Windows 10 is coming out so the ONLY sensible thing to do is work on the apps on that platform to ensure a stellar if not superior experience than on competing platforms. 2. The long exclusivity of Office on Windows Phone has not managed to move the needle in MSFT's favour. People are not buying their phones JUST because of Microsoft services. And if the phone of their choice doesn't have the services provided by Microsoft, Microsoft loses these people to competing platforms and services. It's bad enough that they're not buying Microsoft's phones. To give them a chance to move away from Microsoft in enterprise and on the desktop (especially when exclusivity has not made them come to mobile) would be plain stupid. 3. Microsoft makes money on their apps on other platforms, though not directly. Office on iOS/Android is only feature complete for 365 subscribers, and looking at their earnings Office 365 is remarkably profitably and has been growing very well since it was debuted. Also companies with iOS/Android mobile business phones get integration with mobile office that encourages them to use Office on the desktop, which has been making Microsoft money for 3 decades. It's all about money people. Microsoft is not abandoning us. They just need to be sure they'll stay afloat even if Windows Phone goes no where.
  • This all makes complete sense. Keeping office on phones as a windows exclusive would have been a dumb move. For me there is still plenty of value in Windows on phones, for one I want to be able to purchase apps and games once and have them across my PC, Phone and Xbox where applicable. I can see why people are attracted to Android but iOS, even though it has the widest range of apps feels very stagnant in terms of changes and I don't have any interest in it. I may be the odd one out but I don't use a massive range of different apps and have all the core ones I need on my phone right now. I've asked people before why the Facebook app is so much better on Android and iOS because I genuinely want to know - as a light facebook user I cant find any performance or feature issues. At the end of the day people should just switch if they really are tired of Windows Phone, but for me it still is the most exciting OS which is changing the most (Which could be it's downfall or it's making considering it feels like the third version of the OS that's had major rewrites now)
  • Oh look, somebody with some common sense commenting on this article.........the camera I my Icon is too good to give up, I also love the interface, I could care less about 500px, snap chat, Delta Airlines, etc.....bring on Android App support, that's what will come of all this.......I for one, welcome it with open arms
  • @EBUK I don't have an idea about their earnings, but they are surely making money through these apps. But look, these apps on Android/iOS are making people use Microsoft apps. It's their strategy to engage users on other platforms and tempt them to get on Microsoft platforms. I don't know how viable that is, but having Universal apps will make some Android and iOS users think about a W10 phone. After all, there would be continuity in using the apps, their design and the device would work cohesively with other W10 devices in a manner that the Android and iOS devices can't. Look at this entire thing from a business point of view. If Microsoft doesn't offer their services on Android, which has the largest user base, they will become irrelevant in the mobile world.
  • I wouldn't get your hopes up. We thought much the same thing when they put Win 8 on the Xbox. Only took a year to get a barely functional DLNA player and another half year to get Miracast on it.
  • yes you are right (y) , MS goal is making money and if Windows phone revenu continu in this way , they will abondon it .MONEY is the first priority 
  • Then WP should just be discontinued and the division folded, so that MS can focus on the note important and profitable parts of their business. Just let WP die!!! Posted via the Windows Phone Central App for Android
  • Absolutely. It's not like MS is a software company, right? Oh wait...
  • Nadella I'd actually doing well. You must dominate all platforms with your software .
  • You seem to be misunderstanding why MS is in buinsess. They are, first and foremost, a software company, not a Windows company. MS has to do everything they can to remain relevant in a climate that is moving away from them very quickly. MS also has to keep stakeholders happy and interested in sticking with them thru a very difficult transition to a mobile/cloud first company. MS knows that their own platform (WP) is marginally above dead, so developing for WP first would hurt the company more then it would have helped it. The only way MS is going to survive is by getting thier apps in front of users on the two major platforms, coax them into using thier services, and potentially converting them to thier own platform.
  • I think Microsoft have more important business than WP, like Azure.
  • That is true, but Azure is not in the consumer space - even then it's a relatively small slice of MS revenue.
  • "Windows Phone is marginally above dead, so developing for WP first would hurt the company more..." The problem with this statement is that MS has money to burn... It's not like they can't afford to have multiple teams developing projects at the same time... They can afford not to have to focus on any one or two things, and offer the same level of quality for Windows as they do good competing platforms, even if only to upkeep a positive perception... If you put makeup on the pig then you might just attract Kermit... Problem is not what they are doing (Windows 10, universal apps, giving OS for free, ect.)... But what they are not doing (Developing and giving away superior experiences on competing platforms, hardware bundles)... If your argument for giving away your OS and software for free is that you'll make money on the back end with MS services, then giving away a Windows Phone with an Xbox or PC should be a no brainer... Somebody will activate that free phone and become a potential customer for MS services and possible repeat customer to the Windows Phone platform... Instead of looking at Windows phone as a hole that swallows money, look at it as a lake from which to fish
  • "Windows Phone is marginally above dead, so developing for WP first would hurt the company more..." The problem with this statement is that MS has money to burn... It's not like they can't afford to have multiple teams developing projects at the same time... They can afford not to have to focus on any one or two things, and offer the same level of quality for Windows as they do on competing platforms, even if only to upkeep a positive perception... If you put makeup on the pig then you might just attract Kermit... Problem is not what they are doing (Windows 10, universal apps, giving OS for free, ect.)... But what they are not doing (Developing for Windows phone the same quality apps, at the same time that they giving away superior experiences on competing platforms, hardware bundles)... If your argument for giving away your OS and software for free is that you'll make money on the back end with MS services, then giving away a Windows Phone with an Xbox or PC should be a no brainer... Somebody will activate that free phone and become a potential customer for MS services and possible repeat customer to the Windows Phone platform... Instead of looking at Windows phone as a hole that swallows money, look at it as a lake from which to fish!
  • True that.... They should make all Microsoft apps exclusive to WP. Actually, don't give them to Android. Maybe that's better. B'cos that's what Google is doing.
  • MS Is not consumer oriented. They are better at enterprise market where still google or apple is struggling. Hence, can't expect much from MS on consumer products like Wp.
  • Come on people. Who uses this 6tag app... In fact I am hearing about it for the first time. May be they are suffering huge loses and this is a way of COST CUTTING. It had nothing to do with the popularity of Windows phones which is rising every day.
  • A lot of people use 6tag cause' its more reliable and has all the features
  • You almost made me cry, but I'm very happy with Windows Phone, even if Plan B is implemented by Microsoft in a few years if they cannot increase a marketshare of more than 5% globally at end of 2015, its now at 2.7%. Plan B means Microsoft will purchase a company like Cyanogenmod and begin a custom Android launcher without Google's Play services and Google services.  Just like Amazon does with FireOS which you can use to install APK apps. WIth that said, Microsoft is spending millions on advertising Windows Phone on Mexico where I live and they appear on prime time TV shows for Lumia 535 commercials, so I think at least Microsoft is going to give Windows Phone 1 or 2 more years before switching to plan B which is OK to me.     
  • Totally agree
  • Office for iOS/iPad was ready and Steve Ballmer would not let them release it until WIndows Touch Office was ready and out. It was Nadela who made them release it. This is Nadela's vision for Microsoft. Though i believe Ballmer was right in this instance. It sends a certain message when you bring out Office (your bread and butter) for others and take 1-2 years to even get it on your own platform.
  • I quote krayziehustler, this other platforms first is one of the reasons of wp not good marketshare, Nadella is removing all reasons to buy Windows and wp
    In the long term is Killing ms itself since it will become like ibm is now
    ...who's ibm nowadays nobody still know they exist too
  • Ms was successful well before Windows phone ever came out, this shit platform means nothing to them Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • I would be careful about what you call shit considering you are using android.
  • Nah, no need to be careful. Android is ten times more functional and over a thousand times more popular than WP.
  • It is smart business to have their apps on ask platforms, especially if profits from IOS and Android can find further WP development. However, the apps on the other systems should never be as feature rich as they are on Windows Phone, so there will be more of an incentive for people to make the switch in the future. Hopefully the apps for Windows Phone will address this.
  • ios/adroid first, Windows last - Suckma Nutella
  • Nadella is a turd!
  • Yep
  • I'm currently looking for a mid range ($300-$400) phone, and Windows Phones are not even in my radar.
  • Mobile and the cloud! On IOS and Android that is..
  • solution? carry a budget Android device for all those app needs.
  • Why would stay in WP ecosystem where Nadella himself is not loyal to his own?
  • Meh I mean it wasn't a big deal even if Lumia 1020 was a big camera phone. Cool community but there are others.
  • They'll be back.......
  • I've never said this before here, but 500px was one of my favorite apps. I upload all of my photos there, and I even pay for extra storage. This absolutely sucks.
  • Damn... That sucks.. That's why market share is so important.
  • I had never used it, but that does suck. Hope their website at least has good functions for managing the pictures you have on there already.
  • Damn that sucks!
  • Never knew we had this. Lol
  • If all companies proactively advertise "available in Windows Store" along side itunes and google play they might have some exposure. Yes, the marketshare is low but if people are not informed what do companies expect? Now I dont know if 500px were advertising. but I sure haven't seen it. Infact I have not seen find our app of Windows Store from any company in their magazine ad, billboard ad, even their own site. It's a very sad affair. I hope Microsoft will do more and hope Windows 10 universal app is the answer to this. Windows 10 is really be a make or break for Microsoft in terms of OS. It hasn't been more apparent than now.
  • Here in Europe, dunno why, some spot on tv show app for ios and android, while there is the app for wp too on the store
    It seems again an MS fault (i believe that ms has to pay to have the app shown on tv spot, but with this new terrible ceo....)
  • I'm not too sure that's correct. MS shouldn't have to pay to have the for an app spot on tv, its up to the devs/owners to decide what is advertised. How much would it take to add another logo??? If you have an app on all 3 platforms and only advertise it for 2 then you don't care about the 3rd and ultimately stemming any potential revenue that could be gained. Also, I really don't thing Apple/Google pay to have their respective brands in an ad its probably the other way around if not free.
  • A high end device release might have kept apps like this from going away... Oh, well.
  • nope , a high end device is not the solution to every problem
  • Of course it's not, but as far as the US is concerned it could help a lot... That's why I said "might"
  • Maybe, maybe not.  But 500 version of the same crappy phone is clearly not a solution to any problem.  There is empirical evidence to back that up.  100s of junk phones is a losing strategy. 
  • True........... We just can't leave marketing out of the equation.
  • Photo sharing apps and communities should be doing well on Windows Phone, the cameras are one of the best features of these devices. I don't understand why 500px would be seeing such low numbers that they would pull their app.
  • Have you seen the numbers on flagship WP's? The 930+Icon+1520 together hasn't passed the 920 in market share.
  • Ugggghhhh... That doesn't matter...
    Granted market share pushes everything, in the US popular devices like the 1040, and 1520, make waves.. They keep people talking. High end devices in the US are necessary. No, it's not the complete solution to everything, and nobody ever said it was.... But, the US drives apps... That's why a high end device, with good marketing, could've helped WP keep a lot of apps that we've lost recently.. Im not saying that it's the main issue, rather it's part of the equation.... Nevertheless, you're free to disagree if you like.
  • Won't be long before they develop Windows 10 app
  • Yep.
  • They said we can revisit the windows platform in the future
  • thats just wishful thinking
  • Yeah, but it's practical.
  • But.... Windows 8 was supposed to be the answer to everything....
  • Shhh.. Don't let the others hear that. Go back to your corner and resume the squatting position.
    Let MS take care of their stuff.
  • It's different though with Windows 10, more customizable things etc... Heck it almost does everything that Android can do.. They will be back quote me; I can see the future.. :)
  • I think it was assumed that Windows 8 will be having a lot of traction to the Windows platform, but it did not.
  • Actually, when Windows 8, and WP8, came around apps came in boat loads.... Developers had faith again, and the same will happen with W10....
    MS's issue is keeping the momentum going...
  • No they weren't. WP 7 had momentum. WP 8 invalidated the entire App Store and told the Dev's to come back when And if MS ever got their shit together.  They still haven't.
  • What??? No... Remember 2013❓❓❓ Best year WP had ever in sales, and in app submission...
    That was WP8.0 we had to thank.... Well, that, and some nice devices by Nokia.. You don't think we can do it again❓
  • That depends on how long MS is going to pay to keep floating it and how long the stockholders will put up with it. WP8 was released in Oct, 2012. Almost 2.5 years and they show no signs of catching up to the competition in market share or OS functionality. Nor, do they show any real desire to do either.
  • SMH.... That's sad. What a waste.
  • They're just too slow and plagued with incompetent design heads. They released one major OS update to WP 8 and all they accomplished was tile grouping, some eye candy transparency, and an inadequate quick launcher. Then they proceeded to rip out apps embedded in the OS and replace them with apps that were half as capable as the ones they ripped out. About the only step forward they actually accomplished was Cortana. On the hardware side, they kept releasing high end phones and then took almost a year to make the hardware on those phones actually usable. Christ the 1520 was about to be discontinued before the sensor core hardware was ever enabled in it. The U.S. Version of the 930 took almost a year to get flipping 8.1 and then it was discontinued about a month later. 
  • Goooood, damn... Man, that's depressing to hear.... Then, I start thinking about marketing in the US, but market what❓
  • It wasn't.
  • i hope   
  • Crap app anyway. Installed it for 5min a while a go
  • Bullshit, It was a beautiful app that I really loved. I guess the trend here now is to say that every app that leaves WP was crap anyways. It definitely wasn't true in this case.
  • You mad bro?
  • Ok ok, maybe it wasn't crap, but I couldn't find a way to save the pics and so I uninstalled it. The UI was nice. Baffled that they've stopped it on windows and chrome. And nope, I don't follow a trend to dislike something just coz others might do so :-)
  • Just like you I don't care about these unknown apps haha... what does the app do?
  • It's not an unknown app, it's extremely popular. Just not on WP I guess, which is why it was discontinued. 
  • i spend hours a day on that app , please dont insult it 
  • I don't care for the apps that abandon WP. I think it is justified. Microsoft has treated Windows Phone 8 as nothing more than an alien OS themselves. The day when Microsoft will provide better support for its own mobile OS, is the day we can all mourne when apps leave the platform. Till then, it is a given, that no third party developer in their right mind should invest time on Windows Phone more than what Xbox Music team has done so far.