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Did Microsoft know Windows Phone 7 would be superceded prior to its launch?

Not great news today from the Windows Phone camp. It would appear that CNET have been chatting with Greg Sullivan from Microsoft and what he has said isn't what Windows Phone users wanted to hear.

It seems that Microsoft has know for a long time that Windows Phone 7 would be replaced by Windows Phone 8.

"It was right after Windows Phone 7," Sullivan said, speaking in an interview with CNET UK. The team that developed the 7.5 release actually was working in parallel with the core team that was already beginning [Windows Phone 8]. In fact some of that work was already initiated before Windows Phone 7 was even available -- so this goes back a little bit."

"It is true that this is a generational shift -- that is a rare occurrence, but it's something we don't expect to have happen again in the foreseeable future because of the headspace that the new architecture gives us."

While I would imagine that the majority of blogs that write about this will just complain about Microsoft keeping us in the dark, I on the other hand am looking at this realistically. How many operating systems are there that get a big software upgrade that will then work on all older hardware? As far as I can see there is only one that seems to have nailed it and that is iOS. While Android tries to update as many devices from the past 18 months or so they are quite often at the mercy of the carriers and manufacturers. At least Apple seem to have a good track record of keeping older hardware up to date. RIM has been guilty of the same. Many OS 5.0 handsets were not upgradable to BlackBerry 6 and none of those were ever going to see BlackBerry 7.

What I am getting at here is that this is just the way the mobile industry works. Sure, if you have bought a Windows Phone in the last 6 months or so it may have been nice to know an update was coming and the hardware would not be compatible. But that is never going to happen as manufactures need to sell phones.

At least it is encouraging to know that we shouldn't see this scenario again for some time with Windows Phone.

The whole thing isn't ideal but ideal but that's how the business seems to work.

Source: CNET

306 Comments
  • Serious question: How much does Microsoft pay you to make excuses for them?
  • This just an opinion dude, which last I checked everyone is entitled to, even people like you...
  •  
    The problem is, that no, this does not happen with other operating systems. RIM has been very upfront about their OS 10 and that older devices will not geti it. And Apple and Google ALWAYS provide updates for the older phones. Of course this applies to the Nexus brand of Android, but even for other phones you can always go with a custom ROM because Android is open source. With WP you are at the mercy of Microsoft.
    So this is NOT the same and Microsoft has really screwed the WP users. Please make no excuses for them.
  • Updates that cause your phone to run like crap...
  • You mind supporting this with some facts? Or are you just talking crap?
  • Some Android phones runs like crap with ICS. Some iPhones runs like crap with the latest iOS. Please don't start forcing your opinion on everyone else in here. Ours are as legit as yours.
  • The Nexus S is a single core 1 GHz device with 512 MB RAM. It will get Jelly Bean in a few days.
     
    So no, your opinion is not legit in this case, because you are wrong.
  • Not sure where you got the single CPU and 512MB of RAM for the Nexus S, but that is completely wrong.  The Nexus S is a 1.2Ghz dual-core with 1GB of RAM.  The original Nexus will NOT get ICS or JB update, as it doesn't have the necessary hardware to run.
  • That's the Galaxy Nexus's specs you quoted, not the Nexus S.  It's correct that the device is a single core...
  • Well, that's embarrassing.  That's the last time I go to Google's site and believe what they say.
  • Please check facts before making stupid statements like that again. You don't know what you are talking about.
  • YOU obviously have no idea what you're talking about - the Nexus S is a single core with 512 RAM.  Check the facts next time before making stupid comments:  http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_google_nexus_s-3620.php 
  • Well my mistake I mistakenly thought he was talking about the newer Nexus. I apologize for that. Sorry.
     
    My statement still stands though that some phones that are getting ICS will run slow and laggy.
     
    Sony Ericsson did the right thing with their Xperia play for example taking back their ICS update as they said it would be too slow. And they actually officially went out warning all of their users of other phones in their 2011 lineup that the update to ICS would be a compromise in performance in regards to Gingerbread.
  • Successfully trolled :P
  • Jellybean androids phones names stupid sweets. Lol
  • Look at android, I had android for like 5 years and every update males your phone super slow unless you buy a new device, I am super excited with wp8 and will buy a new device because im a huge WP supporter and think WP is the best operating system out there, so for WP to be even better they can't run everything on these basic devices, and one of the beer things about WP is that it runs sooooo smooth you dont want to jepordize that
  • I agree with you, and I had an Android Samsung Vibrant and it's an okay device. Once I upgraded to froyo my phone went to crap and it's already crap with all the thing you can think off. It lags, freezes and crashes. At least I have the OS I dreamed off but the phone is useless. I rather stick to my windows phone money well spent.
  • Oh come on, you must buy the new iPhone every two years then, cause running the latest OS on a phone older than that runs like crap. I have an iPad that runs much slower with the latest OS too.
  • pot calling the kettle black
  • I really think you need to step back and look at this a bit subjectively.  I mean, would I love the WP8 update?  Sure.  But most of the improvements are hardware related.  No software update is going to add a piece of hardware to your phone.  So, they are giving us the 7.8 update which will include the start screen and such that doesn't make use of newer hardware.  I think it's a fair compromise for the customers.  Most of what WP8 would bring appears that it would end up disabled anyway because the hardware just wouldn't be there.
     
    AND they can now focus on making WP8 the best it can be without trying to pretend hardware is there or check constantly for this or for that...  I mean, really.  If it had been more software features it would be one thing, but it's really not.
  • Microsoft has said the sneak peak they had in SF was all for the developers and was pretty much all hardware and things most users dont get excited about they will have more leaks to come, I think there are going to be HUGE software improvements
  •  
    I am sorry to say this, but you are completely clueless. The most important thing about WP8 is the software, not the hardware. Nobody cares about NFC, dual cores or high res screens. They are nice, but you do not NEED them. But what you will very soon find out is that you NEED the software improvements that WP8 brings – new APIs, native code support and all this backend stuff that you obviously have no clue about.
     
    So please stop with the “WP8 will not give you new hardware” nonsense. It is irrelevant.
  • "Nobody cares about NFC, dual cores or high res screens."
     
    Apparently Steve Jobs has risen from the dead. I guess we can discount all of the excitement over quad cores and HD screens.
     
    Software and hardware are equally important for WP8 because it must fight the admittedly idiotic battle over specs for the general consumer. No you do not need them, but for hardware parity, they are needed.
  • I said that those things are nice. But they are not essential. And the point that I was making was that the hardware is not the most important part of WP8 - the software is. Please don't mix up two completely different topics.
  • They are different but intertwined topics that are both of equal importance. WP8 devices can't come out with the latest single core chip sets and low res screens or they'd get chewed up. You can't just disregard hardware because YOU don't view it to be important.
  • Wait till you see the low spec WP8 devices that will be designed for the developing countries.
  • Hardware is essential in Microsoft's roadmap for Windows Phone and consumer perception: they add capabilities and value to the platform since MS has expanded their sensor support. Also, WP8 has the same minimum system requirements as a PC: 1GB RAM is new for WP AFAIK, display resolution is covered, and increased storage capacity has been addressed. It's not just nice to have these new hardware capabilities. There is synergy among the WP8 OS and the hardware it runs on. And their combined capabilities enhance the UX. IMO ;-)
  • pot calling the kettle black again
  • People do care about NFC and bigger screens and more cores. It was tough to sell Windows Phones in my store when they had a quad core phones available. People wanna think that their phone is fast and the best, and even though windows phone doesn't really need more cores, there software is baked into the hardware, people still want that feeling that they have to have the best beefier phone. Remember Windows Phone is playing catch up with only a 5% gain in the market. They need to have these hardware upgrades to make customers/ oems happy.
  • The sales associates can be blamed for this false perception they perpetuate that we need multicore. As far as I'm concerned the vast majority of sales associates feed into the advertising Kool-Aid. The current single core WPs provide a superior UX in responsiveness compared to the multicore Android and iPhone. I still don't see the necessity for multicore on a smartphone at the current state of the art in low power chips and battery technology *** for consumers ***: how many of you need to do serious number crunching on your smartphone?
  • Not to developers... They want to know what new things they can take advantage of in their apps due to hardware upgrades...
  • Yeah, I think people want windows phone to be what windows desktop OS was. And we all know though flexible every incarnation of windows should not have been allowed to be backwards compatible with old hardware. Microsoft finally ditched 32bit support in server and desktop and we will reap benefit from that. Apple ditched RISC, etc. This stuff happens and needs to happen lest an ecosystem be held back the way windows was for a decade. To think otherwise is simply silly. I am not angry, this is life in electronics.
  • 32-bit OS support is still in MS's roadmap for the desktop. Maybe it'll be dropped finally for W9...hoping.
  • 7.5 technically will get updated to 7.8.  WP8 is incredibly hardware dependent.  Given the small marketshare, this is the absolute best time to do it and do it right.  I think WP8 would have to be hacked and slashed to work on current gen phones.  I'd rather them bolster it for newer hardware than neuter it for current handsets.
     
    Now, the best thing for them and carriers would be a deal to upgrade devices early and have MS just eat the cost.  It's the right thing to do for people who are adopting the platform right NOW.  Myself? I bought a focus on day 1 so I'm going to upgrade anyway.  But someone who bought a 900 yesterday? Yeah, highly discounted upgrade is what they should have an option for.
  • RIM was NOT upfront about OS 5 phones not being upgradeable to OS 6 and the same with 6.1 to 7. You must stop talking in generalities because Apple & Google do not always provide updates for older phones. You don't remember the outcry from Iphone 3G users when it was announced only the 3GS & 4 were getting updates? Also, average users don't even know what a ROM is, so when their EVO 3D doesn't get updated, who are they going to blame?
     
    My point is, it is a VERY valid comparison and it isn't excusing them.
  • No it is not. The iPhone 3G was a 3 generations old phone when it was no longer updated. The Lumia is a FEW MONTHS old. Please stop with the bias.
  • Bias? Last I looked this was WPCentral. I come for and expect bias! Go to bloody CNET if you want impartiality. (yes the sarcasm was intentional)
  • Bias is never a good thing. Regardless where it comes from.
  • Mr burrns leave off. I had an iPhone 3G, and when 3GS came out there were some features not possible on the 3G - and besides, it ran like cr4p - so I offloaded my iPhone 3G. Microsoft are a huge company, who will have dev teams finalising or bug fixing one prodocut, and already starting new projects.
    Lumia was not a Microsoft phone, it was a Noklia phone as Nokia decided to jump ship to Windows. The Lumia phones won't stop working, in fact I have a Lumia 710 that got 3 updates only yesterday. 7.8 will also come to it. I'm very happy I will get new functionality on the 2 WP7 phones I have.
    But I will also rush out and buy a v8 phone when they come out.
    I won't any longer buy a Blackberry, as I hardly ever get a guaranteed update, and I have a Blackberry for work (although thats under review).
    Andoird is a fragmented mess. I won't go there. The only viable place it to go back to iPhone, its still the most supported.
    But as  Hotmail (moved off GMAIL, and GApps) Skydrive, Xbox, OneNote, Windows 7 users I still think Windows Phone 8 will be the best experience.
    Microsoft have provided me with the most solid phone experience I've ever had, and I reckon 8 might be a truly sweety deal.
  • The iPhone 3G was sold and supported by Apple for 2 years between June08 to June10. In June10 it was still considered by Apple to be a current gen phone as it was being activity sold on-contract as their budget option. 3 months after it was discontinued a new version of IOS was released that wasn't supported on the 3G. What point are you trying to make here?
  • You may want to check your facts.  iOS 5 in June 2011 was the first time iPhone 3G was unsupported by Apple's latest software revision.  Three years after the phone launched.  One year after the phone was discontinued.  The Lumia 900, the current flagship Windows Phone, will be 7 months old when it becomes fragmented from future revisions of the OS.  That is the point being made here...
  • It will get 7.8.
    WHen IOS cmae out for 3GS, some features did not work on the 3G model:
    "When running on iPhone 3G, iOS 4 disables multitasking, background wallpapers, Bluetooth keyboard support, and a "data protection" feature"
    Not only that, it ran like cr4p - and my battery lasted much less. I offloaded my iPhone 3G at that point, it was knobbled. So take the Apple tinted glasses off. Windows Phone is no better or no worse in this respect.
    Its still much better than the "maybe you will" "maybe you won't" Android or Blackberry updates. And this is coming from someone who has owned all phones, and not talking from "talk" but experience.
     
  • I say the Lumia 900 is a great WP and will serve its owners well. I'd also like to add, pay up or shut up about 1st and 2nd Gen WPs not being upgradeable to WP8 to anyone complaining about this decision.
  • I dont know I have an iPad that cannot play a ton of applications because the new update features dont work on my existing iPad. Either way, nobody buys there phone or computer thinking the company OWES them more. I bought my phone and iPad with what it could do then, not if they will get an update and possibilities later. There are more important things in life. The phones were probably free or heavily discounted. Just silly
  • Exactly. I think the Android and iPhone fanboys come here and whinge cos they are intimidated by the mighty WP7. Very insecure. ;)
     
  • So now companies need to stop innovating to make their product better. Every iOS device does not get all the features included in the next iteration of their operating system, they only receive specific features......this is a fact, because I also have several the 3GS and 4, which didn't get all the features the 4s has. So with that said, MS is following suite with apple by providing an update that gives its older devices limited features of the new OS.
  • Apple phones are two years old before this happens...
  • Wrong the iPhone 4 was just one year old when it didn't get all iOS5 included (siri).
  • Apple and Google always provide updates? What delusional fantasy are you living in?
  • And yet only 10% of Android phones are even using ICS. Even if what you're saying is true, the average consumer clearly doesn't actually care.
  • Bro! We've know for more than a year that WP8 would be running a NT core. You don't go from CE to NT without having to cut the cord in some manner. Maybe you didn't know this, but the  media tech blogs are patently ignoring this fact just to have stories to write and, of course, make it seem like MS is doing something that's never been done before. Okay, MS just officially confirmed it 100% at their developer conference, but we've all known. Hell, Nokia has known, but no one is going to run around talking about it until the very last minute.
    The older iPhones are not going to get the full v5 update and features. They can't Android is the same way. Not every device is going to support ICS, so the point you're trying to make is false. And the majority of WP8 features wouldn't be supported on existing hardware anyway, because these devices don't have the built in chips, slots, GPUs, etc to support the big features that Apollo is bringing. So again, everyone is making a big to do about nothing. That's a fact.
  • for me i think its a good thing that ms are coming up with so many ideas that they are finding a need to develop different operating systems to house them. however what is less obvious is whether ms are balancing thier commercial interests with thier moral interets. to ms: please ms before you take our hard earned money of us bear in mind thier are big fans of your products out there especially on forums like these. and people will continue to buy your products so long as theyre good. however i think they couldnt say anything (commercially) because they needed people to buy wp7 and start playing catch up to apple, would you say anything given this position? but thats the crux of it isnt it you are not giving people the choice to do what they want with thier money! so i think what im trying to say is i understand it. but i dont agree with it.
  • for me i think its a good thing that ms are coming up with so many ideas that they are finding a need to develop different operating systems to house them. however what is stinks is whether ms are being open and honest with us and letting customers choose the product they want and are ms balancing thier commercial interests with thier moral interets. to ms: please ms before you take our hard earned money of us bear in mind thier are big fans of your products out there especially on forums like these. and people will continue to buy your products so long as theyre good and offer the things people want. however i think they couldnt say anything (commercially) because they needed people to buy wp7 and start playing catch up to apple, would you say anything given this position? but thats the crux of it isnt it you are not giving people the choice to do what they want with thier money! so i think what im trying to say is i understand it. but i dont agree with it.
  • @MrBurrrns - if you understood how the software industry works, you would have expected this. Anyone who has a clue about developing software (not only mobile) should be well aware that major projects like operating systems are not thrown together in six months. Therefore, pretty much by definition, those working on 7.5 (or 7) would be able to have an idea of what will come some time later. Not every detail, but the basic idea. You think Microsoft cooked Win 8 up sometime early in 2012? They've been making plans for this for a long time (note that they worked on the surface for 3 years - it's meant to provide hardware for an operating system). When you dream up Win8, you also think about how that touches mobile - for your developer community, and your own code base to maintain. It's not like Microsoft hasn't tried to bring together two disparate OSes before (Win NT and Win 95 families in Win XP).
  • Seriously, this is pissing me off even more. I was promised up to 10 years of updates and now this? Making me want to go back to Android...
  • I hope you are being sarcastic, as no mobile device provider will promise 10 years of updates period, let alone support a product for 10 years.
  • Rofl +100 humor
  • I believe where they are shooting themselves in the foot is that the biggest marketing campaign they had for a Windows Phone happened moments before they stopped development for it. I bought a Lumia 900 a few weeks ago, and was quite surprised for there to be no Windows Phone 8 support. I hadn't heard that the platform was changing in any of the updates about the new OS, which would hae likely kept me from upgrading from my iPhone 4 until after the new ones come out. Hopefully we will continue to have support on the Win 7 side, because its going to be really tough for all these new people with W7P if we stop having apps made for our devices in 4 months.
  • You have an account here and this possibility didn't cross your mind? I was up for an upgrade and I waited to hear the details on wp8. Plus, I really didn't get the hoopla about the 900, Focus S seems better. I'll stick with my focus until there is some better options.
  • I know I'm deviating from the primary conversation, but the Focus S PALES in comparison to the Lumia 900.  I own a Focus S, and while it is extremely light, it's build quality is not up to the same as any Lumia (610, 710, 800 or 900.)
     
    I do agree that some Lumia owners will feel like they have been left behind, especially those in the US as they couldn't upgrade for another 18-20 months.
  • Pales in comparison?? I think not. The build on my Focus S is amazing and has held up phenomonally, countless drops onto tile and concrete, traveling all over the world, and being used to its fullest every single day for business and pleasure, its been a dream owning this sleek, slim super amoled plus beast and specs wise, its the same phone as yours minus lte so aside from getting it done 10 seconds before my S, ill stick with my better camera and purer windows phone experience. (does your even say its a WP on the outside?) After the Tango update, the Focus S feels like a finely tuned athlete..and its more than capable of making me happy until upgrade time...seems like no one is feeling the same for the 900...interesting...
  • Yes, pales in comparison.  The Focus S has a nice build but the Lumia 900 is a solid unibody device with an even nicer screen.  There is absolutely nothing more pure about the Focus S windows phone experience, that's just nonsense.  The less written on a phone, the better - the home button is the only logo these phones need.  As for being happy with the phones, you seem to mentally train yourself to ignore phones that are better than yours...some of us prefer to actually own a better phone.
  • Better is subjective so what's better to you isn't better period just because you say so. We are in the same boat, 7.8 in our future, we have the same processor , same storage, and screen quality is also subjective as I prefer to vibrant Samsung displays over the darkened Nokia ones so again, better how? I've had plenty of hands on time with the 900 and its not an upgrade to the Focus S, and that's the facts. The Nokia 900 is a mango device and it was supposed to be released around the same time as the focus, but Nokia couldn't pump out distribution to the states yet...its the trophy of the mango releases, late to the party but sold as brand new...
  • Again, I OWN A FOCUS S and a Lumia 900, so yes I know what I'm talking about, and this is my opinion.  THe Focus S's screen is worse than the Lumia 900's, both in clarity and color saturation.  The ClearBlack tech Nokia uses is just fantastic.  The Focus S is too plasticky to my liking.  When I bought it, yes I liked it over my original Focus.  The Lumia 900 is heavier, but it's not a huge difference.  Plus, the Lumia 900 just feels great in the hand.  I also didn't like the fact Samsung just regurgitated the Galaxy hardware design, and didn't come up with something original or to separate it from the Slutdroid army.
  • So basically you weren't a fan of the focus s when you bought it then? Plasticky, same android design, color saturation, so then you were looking for something different to begin with. Look, im glad you love your lumia but no need to bash the focus s when it just isn't your cup o tea. To me, the focus s feels much better in my hand with its rounded corners, its so thin and lite, its a dream to carry in a pocket, and its been uber reliable and a workhorse. I understand its your opinion but that means i can also have mine, and mine is that the lumia is a mild upgrade for those looking for lte, but that's it. Otherwise, they are the same phone, with only personal preference separating the two...
  • No, I did like the Focus S at first, knowing full well I would be getting the Lumia 900 when it was released.  When I first got the Focus S, I loved the screen.  When I went to the local AT&T store, I compared them, and could immediately tell the Lumia was better designed.  To reciprocate, I'm glad you like your Focus S, but I wouldn't recommend it over the Lumia to anyone.  The screen alone is evidence enough Samsung can't design a good or decent phone compared to the Lumia series.
     
    "mine is that the lumia is a mild upgrade for those looking for lte, but that's it"
    That's your opinion, and it couldn't be more wrong.  But yeah, you're going to reply "nuh, uh. The Focus S is better, blah, blah, blah."  And I'll reply with "you're opinion is dumb, blah, blah, blah."  We can go around in circles.  You love the Focus S.  I like the Focus S, and believe the Lumia 900 is light years better.  I'll leave it at that.
  • Lol, of course they knew, why are you surprised?!
     
    They needed SOMETHING on the market right away, and they new W8 based system would not be ready for two more years.
  • Seriously? Are we going to cry some more over this? Get over it already. smdh
  • If it that does not bother you then fine, please enjoy your EOL-ed phone. But do not take away the people their right to express their opinions. Everybody is entitled to have one.
  • You keep using phrases that I don't think you know the meaning of. The term "EOL" does not apply to this situation as current devices: #1. are still being manufacturered and sold & #2. will receive an update within (hopefully) the next 6 months.
     
    Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but you just seem to always be using words wrong.
  • Yes, an update that will not make it possible to run the WP8 apps. Hence, your device is EOL. Please be real, what are you working for Microsoft?
  • Ey mr STFU
  • What are you working for apple ,  Probly nto cause you dotn know what EOL means :)
    EOL = End of life  = When a OEM stops producing phones = clearly not whats happening here.
    Its like saying all the none Upgradedble Android Phoens are EOL,  yet they are the once that sale the most and get manifacturted the most by OEMs.....
    the word your looking for is Obsolete but it isnt cause it still works...
     
     
  • I think the acronym he means is F'd in the A - which is how many of us Lumia 900 owners are feeling.
  • uh? Windows Phone 8 rumors about it being closer to Windows 8 like NT kernel, its been for like a YEAR. (or well, since last year before nokia released nokia lumia 900)
    it was YOUR choice to get a lumia 900 knowing there would be a new version with SO MANY changes. it would have been nice if 7.5 got 8. but it wont happen deal with it because YOU KNEW ABOUT IT, and you STILL BOUGHT IT. if you wanted a wp8, buying a 7.5 well... then its your own fault. also the phone will not stop working, do you buy it and you like it? then, thats good because nothing will change (7.8 a little) how it works now.
  • Rumors are rumors, FYI.  What I expected was a pared down WP8 for the Lumia phones, not a complete fragmentation.  Yes, it was MY choice to buy a new phone because my previous two Windows Phone 7 phones sucked and died.  Nokia has already had to replace two faulty Lumia 900's that I've owned (smartphone beta test is over?). Yes, I'm going to deal with this - by leaving the platform for good.  I'm sure I won't be alone and it's Microsoft that will need to deal with it in the end, followed by the remaining userbase such as yourself.  If I were to stay with WP7.8 until April 2014, you can be sure more will have changed than what you're leading on...such as apps that are truly backgrounded.  And no, I'm NOT happy with the way things currently work and could spend all day explaining where things have been half assed.
  • Good, don't let the door hit you on the way out ;)
    * Oh you edited out the "im leaving" flounce LOL good for you. Seriosuly, everyone knew an update was imminent.
    (Unless you lived under a rock)
    I didn't get a Lumia 800 or 900 - even though I wanted one - as I wanted to wait for the WP8 announcement, well now they made it.
     
    The Lumia 800 and 900 will be a great phone with 7.8 on it for a long time.
    (So you will get  paired down v8, it will be called 7.8 you numpty :) )
    Still better than any pikey Android device in my opinion, or Blackberry. So why hate?
    Just wait for another few months a get a shiney WP8 phones in all its beauty.
    This is was technology ownership is like, we upgrade in cycles. Sometimes hardware makes us miss an upgrade. Better get used to it, every platform PC, Console, Phones, iPads, Tablets all have this link of hardware to software issue.
    So much childish hate, for a phone :) It will still make phone calls, still browse the web and thats still what most people "need" to do. Having the latest "version" is just fashion. Anyway good luck on your next platform.
  • *double post*
  • Really? The term "End of life" for devices literally means manufacturing stops and no more devices will be created. This has nothing to do MS, running apps or the price of tea in China; it's simply a manufacturing term.
     
    Now you know, and knowing is half the battle.
  • Yo, my Omnia 7 was EOL when it got Mango goodness.
  • This is a non story, people need to buy phones today with the understanding they are a feature set for TODAY, not an upgrade path for the future. Be happy with what you have today, not upset with what you might not have in the future. Although, this was about as stupid as Nokia telling the world plan B. Something are just better left unsaid. Parallel development is not an uncommon practice.
  • Sure, this would not be a problem if WP was working as it should. But it's not and there are too many open issues. So please stop with the fanboyism.
     
    People have the right to complain. If Microsoft had been honest with their users and said from the start "this is what you get and you will NOT get WP8" then you would be right. But they did not. They knew and didn't say anything, because they knew that nobody would buy the phones. So basically, they lied to us.
  • Omg you are a MORON if they told us about wp8 nobody would buy wp7 and how the f##k would have they made money,im glad they came our w wp7 it has been a pleasure using it for 2 years now, and if they came out w wp8 first there wouldn't be thing big hoopla about it because nobody would know about it as much they do now I agree w Microsoft 100% w what they are doing and have been doing, tour just an annoying cry baby
  • Dude seriously you complain too much,we haven't heard anything about 7.8 yet...u don't know what's in wp8!! what's up with all the be HONEST....no body does that..
  • You're complaining too much. 7.8 is not yet fully detailed for you to bash around now. When 7.8 is released, WP8 would only start its adoption. I think by then there would still be 6 months of life of the current WP7 before needing to switch to WP8. Btw, I hope you stick to WP. I get it you don't like lying people. This is probably the least lying platform available at the moment.
  • Oh MR Brusn pls f off to Engadget with all the other d1ck heads.
    No one lied, Microsoft did not announce anything until last month.
    They have made a new OS for a new target platform, simple.
     
    WP 7 device will get 7.8.
    So whats the problem? Its much cleaner/ clearer than Apple or Android or Blackberry.
    Blackberry orphan hardware all the time.
    Android, you're left to your carrier or manufcaturer (I Will not get another Android phone for this reason alone, let along privacy issues, and the whole ugliness of Android)
    Apple _never_ tell anyone their intention until announcement day. ITs a consumer focused company. Microsoft are streets out ahead in terms of its postion on both new and current devices.
    I've been much better served by Microsoft than any other platform.
  • So you are also okay if with the introduction of Windows 8 all software (application) development for Windows 7 is stopped and you are stuck with an desktop where non of the software can run on? Even worse, the software you run now will not receive any bugfixes or updates? In my opinion your dekstop then has become useless. 
  • You really don't know how this stuff works do you?  Traditional desktop software development is not going to suddenly stop once Windows 8 is released.  In fact, Windows 8 still has a desktop for such software and your current software will be updated in the same manner as before.  The desktop does not become useless, it becomes even more powerful and robust with a whole new market of applications, new features and improvements, and the best cloud back-end services (opinion).
     
    Same for Windows Phone 7 and 8.  When WP8 drops, there are still going to be a huge amount of 7.x users for some time before WP8 surpasses it, hopefully not too long though.  The point is, most developers will continue to target their apps for 7.x and they will run fine for WP8 users.
  • You are comparing apples and oranges. The difference is that Windows 7 is a complete system, with all features and APIs that a modern system should have. WP7 is not. So you can't compare those.
  • I wasn't comparing Windows to Windows Phone, I was merely saying development for those OSs will jot just stop because of the next version. Eventually yes, more quickly with WP7, but not right off the bat.
  • If Windows 7 is a complete system as you say, then there wouldn't be a need for Windows 8, would there? Looks like you just shot your own foot there.
  • Hey, this is not car or TV. Which you buy by expecting it just to do its main goals. Smartphones are like computers! You buying it thinking that it will be future proof. If you need just phone, buy cheep NOKIA with hard keys and 1.5" display and use it. But we are talking about SMART phones. Everyone who bought WP7 in this year expected them to be upgraded to WP8, because currently WP7 is useless OS in the whole mobile world.  NOKIA knew it, MS knew it. They just sold phones, took money and said - f$%ck off, we will sell you new phones.
    Who now can guarantee that next phones will receive significant updates? No one.
  • You can all continue to complain about a future that you don't even know will happen, or, you can just enjoy your phone now. If you don't, then leave the platform, easy as that. I recommend enjoying what you have, it feels better at the end of the day.
  • I will leave the platform...unfortunately, that's going to cost a lot of money to do.  Which makes it even less likely that I'll ever be back.
  • Then stop posting here,no one wants to read your nonsense
  • Ha, this is exactly what the likes of you were saying before they announced that the wp7 phones will not be upgraded - we don't know yet wait and see. Ya, let's do this again, right? Beta-testers ;)
  • Hi Ray, welcome to WP Central - I see you just joined several hours ago.
    Using "computers" and "future proof" in the same sentence doesn't make sense.   These days, smart phones ARE consumer electronics, and will likely have a refresh cycle of 18 months (funny, the same amount of time MS says they'll support WP8).
    Frankly, with 7.8 coming this "Fall" that's going to be 2 years since WP7 devices first hit the market (Nov 2010).  
    What's making this all such a "big deal" is the timing of WP8 relative to very large marketing push of the Lumia 900 back in April.   But WP7 will have been supported by MS for 2+ years when all is said and done.
    And it's simply not true that "Everyone who bought WP7 in this year expected them to be upgraded to WP8" - there was so much press and forum debate about this that you'd have to have bought your lumia 900 with your eyes closed and ears plugged to not be aware.
    And "currently WP7 is useless OS in the whole mobile world" - well ,that just makes you sound like a troll.
     
    -C
  • If phones weren't subsidized on 2 year carrier contracts, this would be a reasonable mindset for purchasing new smartphones.  Microsoft's move here has caused me to lose faith in Windows Phone for good.
  • You know their working on WP9 already right?
  • That's it, dethzilla has convinced me, I'm done with this platform!!!! I'm going back to blackberry! Lol
  • I'm so pissed, I'm going back to WebOS!!!!  Screw you Micro$$$$oft!!!! [/sarcasm]
  • I work in development and it is quite normal that we'd start projects knowing that there are other projects that are going to replace the current one a couple of years later. Companies need a constant stream of products. If they don't then they'd fail.
  • Exactly
  • Ugh, people are stubborn. Why even bother to explain to them with this article.
  • Your point being?
  • The main problem is app's that for wp8 does not support wp 7. Marketplace for wp7 will not grow further after wp8. Thats all my mistake to buy a prototype phone from nokia. M$ is finished for me. Apple wait for me.
  • Why? Wrong on all counts re app development.
  • Why wrong? He's dead on, as far as i can tell. App development will grind to a halt for WP7.X after the release of WP8, if it hasn't already. There's no reason on earth to keep coding apps for WP7.X once WP8 is released. Who's going to waste their time coding apps and updates for a market that no longer grows?
  • The people who want to sell apps to several million users as opposed to zero users, that's who.
    Just like most Android apps are written for compatibility with 2.2, until WP8 gains more share than WP7, devs would be foolish to code exclusively for it. Unless of course they're using native code or new hardware specific features.
    In fact the WP7-to-Wp8  coding transition will be much easier to cope with as Android apps not only have to deal with OD compatibility issues, but hardware as well. Netflix and Instagram are perfect examples.
  • Windows Phone has at most 10 million users globally. That's a tiny, tiny drop in the bucket. In fact, that's as many users total as Android adds in about 11 days. And if you have to divide your time between a dead platform and a growing platform where your apps will be compatible with phones and tablets, are you really going to? No, of course not. You're going to code for W8/WP8. Because that is a rational expenditure of your effort. 
     
  • Yes, and how many WP8 users are there? As of general availability ZERO. Even then it will take some time to gather momentum. After that it will take more time for WP7 devices to exit the market.
    So, and please correct my if you think I'm wrong, you think people who want to sell apps for money will immediately develop for zero users over 10 million? And after that feel that the equation : #ofWP8 devices + 10 million <  #ofWP8 devices alone?
    Please do not EVER apply for a job in marketing or finance.
  • Think about it rationally in terms of resource allocation.
    If you can be the first to the W8/WP8 market with an app, the potential payoff is massively higher than continuing to code for WP7.X. Allocating your assets (time) is a zero-sum game, so you have two options. You can code for a dead ecosystem with 10 million users, or you can be first to market in a market that has the chance to grow to 100 million+ very quickly. It seems like a pretty easy choice, doesn't it? Any expenditure of assests is a gamble, but this one seems quite good, doesn't it? If you have spare time, you might continue to code for WP7.X, but it seems like a pretty simple cost/benefit analysis to conclude that the payoff of working on W8/WP8 is much higher potentially than continuing to code for a dead, dwindling ecosystem, while the risks are about the same. 
    PM me and I'll send you my real-life details, and let's make a bet. I bet that fewer than 5,000 new applications are released after W8/WP8 is released. How many do you wanna bet are released? 
  • Thank you, I am so happy that there are still some intelligent people here.
  • Another clueless ignorant.
  • Still no PM. Guess no one wants to put their money where their mouth is. Oh well. 
     
  • Your info is false. People don't bet on false info. I bet that you don't even know which part of your info is false. That's what clueless ignorant means.
  • The point you seem to be missing is that on the phone you can code for both with no extra "asset allocation" and for the tablet/desktop with very little extra. Would it be worth an extra day for you to include 10 million potential sales? Maybe even two.
    Read here & here for details on how to port.
    Here's the real kicker. If you code for WP7 your app just runs on WP8 & extra work is required for W8.
    If you code for WP8 you loose 10 million users and still have to re-work your app for W8.
    Again, unless you're developing a native code game or using new hardware features, devs would be extreemly short sighted to coe for WP8 only.
    If you're not coding in C++ (which most devs aren't) the XAML + C#(or VB method will be very similar whether you're targeting WP7/W8 or WP8/W8.
    And I'll take your bet because if needed I can easily whip up 5000+ spam apps in under a year
    :-)
     
  • "Thank you, I am so happy that there are still some intelligent people here."
     
    There MrBurrrns - helped you properly locate your comment.
  • You're talking nonsense (sorry Mr Burns, you also fail again) see Robbcat's post below on WP7 development - it explains why you example is stupidity itself. Basically you can code once and target either version.
  • Oh and spending 9 extra hours to have an app that runs on 3 platforms instead of two (especially if one of those has 10 million users), seems like a completely "rational expenditure".
     
    http://www.japf.fr/2012/04/porting-a-silverlight-windows-phone-app-to-winrt-in-9hours/
  • That's if you want to take advantage of the newer API's available to Compact WinRT in WP8.  WP7 apps will be supported in WP8, which Microsoft made a point to say numerous times at the Windows Phone Developer Summit.  Remember when they said that all of the existing apps will be recompiled "in the cloud" by Microsoft to be ready for WP8?  So, developers should have an interest to develop for both platforms, knowing that it's relatively easy to port it to Compact WinRT.
  • I don't give a rats ass about all of this. I buy a new phone about once a year like so many others.
  • That's great for you. But most people are stuck in contracts.
  • I knew someone was gonna say thay. Well lesson learned stay away from contracts if you can and if you want the latest. Everyone know that being on a contract often ends in dissapointment.
  • So what do you say to the people that bought a Lumia a month ago? Buy a new phone in 3 months? Maybe you do not mind throwing money out of the window, but not everybody is like you.
  • What to say to people who just bought a Lumia? A quick Bing search before purchasing the phone and you would have known WP8 was being released before the years out. You should really take responsibility for not being smarter consumers!
  • It is perfectly reasonable to have expected WP8 to run on phones that are less than a year old.  Why do you think Microsoft waited until June to announce this?
  • Will their Lumia's stop working all of a sudden when WP8 and WP7.8 is released? Anyone with interest makes research before buying. The other ones don't care as much or at all about updates they buy the phone because they like what came with it.
     
    I bought a Lumia 2 months ago. Still happy with it.
  • Lumia owners will also be getting a number of exclusive apps and games from Nokia in the coming months. Something that no one seems to mention when they are speaking on behalf of us "poor" Lumia users.
  • stop acting like your phone is Obsolete , its not , so it wont get some new features and some new apps , - does it still use e-mails? - make phone calls? - tweet? -use facebook? -have  contacts? - have maps / GPS? - can you still txt? - can you still get your fav news - can you still surf the WEB - can you STFU......  
     
     
     
     
  • I had no idea that the phones were going to suddenly stop working as soon as WP8 is released.  I would have thought that they'd still have the product that they walked out of the store with and be happy with it, just like the 90% of Android users who never upgrade the OS.
  • I'd say when your contract is up for renewal, get a new WP8 phone.
    Oh, and BTW, if you care about getting updates quicker, get the shortest contract you can.
     
    I knew WP8 was coming, didn't "upgrade" when my current contract ran out.
    I bought a Lumia 710 for 120 UK pounds, and using that until WP8 devices come out. Either do your research, or wait. Simple choice. No one fault but your own, certainly not Microsofts as you keep insinuating.
     
    Are you really this thick in the head Burns?
  • Sounds like your problem is with the contract, not Microsoft.
  • Even AT&T allows subsidized upgrades after one year while under a two year agreement.
  • exCtly, and then people complain for their free phone! freeeeeee. I bought my phone for 100, happy to use it 18months and then upgrade to win8. I am less concerned about update to win8 and more about game saves to transfer to my next phone. :s
  • It would seem that all these people who are upset are so broke they can't afford to buy a phone off contract. Go to college, get a real job, and you can fulfill your mobile tech wishes. Or find a hobby that is less expensive than mobile tech. I bought a lumia 900 in april but i have the $$ to be a content mobile tech enthusiast.
  • They are always working on the next OS in parallel with to be released system and they are planning the release after that. All OS's do this. Sometimes you have to make difficult decisions for the future. See Apple when they switched to OS 10 and switched hardware. These are not last minute decisions. Do you want to be stuck with Windows CE forever?
  • It's not that simple. The problem is that there was (and still is) a big fight going on between the different MS divisions. At some point Sinosky decided that his division 'can also do mobile and phones' and at the end he got the OK from Ballmer. However that pissed off most people in the Windows Phone team as they had their own roadmap which was simply thrown away after the Sinosky takeover. That's why about 2/3 of the Windows Phone team just quit their jobs (remember all the news here about the resigns of the WP managers? Yea...) as they didn't want to work with Sinosky who ignored everything these guys had achieved with the WP7 design. Well at the end Sinosky won, but he doesn't want to have anything to do with the old ideas. That's why there won't be any WP8 for current devices as that doesn't fit into his personal agenda. Though the former WP team was gently allowed to develop a 7.8 update that at least includes some new stuff. However if WP8 or Win8 flops then Ballmer for sure wouldn't backup Sinosky anymore as his own job would be in danger then. This might result again in big changes and shifts.
  • Now this is an interesting post. Thanks for the inside baseball. I've read things about workers being unhappy with SInosky somewhere else before as well.
  • First of all it's Sinofsky. Secondly, get used to him, he'll be your new CEO within 5 years.
    Oh, and please explain how running a new kernel on old hardware doesn't fit in to his "personal agenda". Does he have a bias just against phones? Because I seem to be running his flagship product on a Pentimum D 1.8gHz machine just fine.
  • As I wrote it's all about personal agendas here. There are many people that are very unhappy with recent decisions and they all have a story to tell and will tell it. Then there are business partners that are very pissed with recent decisions especially as they were presented a roadmap when they signed a special deal with MS. They then started to develop phones/products in regard of that specific roadmap. Some of these phones even made it to market and, oh wonder, the whole roadmap was thrown over. These people are very pissed at the moment. To make it short: there will be more fights being fought and it won't be in private anymore.
  • I think timing is the suspect here. Having a huge marketing campaign around a phone and then kill its development path 3 months later is ridiculous. It would matter less if we weren't in the world of contracts and lock-in, but we are. No one expects a phone to work forever, and I've been really happy with the WIndows Phone OS and love my Titan II, but knowing that WP8 apps likely won't work on WP7 is really irritating given the newness and the big marketing push.
  • I really think this being blown out of proportion. The only apps that won't be compatible will be the native code ones as I understand it. This means that 99.9% of the apps for the next year or so will work. You technically won't have 8, but you will probably not notice until your contract is up.
  • No, it's not just apps with native code. There will be a whole bunch of new APIs that WP8 developers can use that will not be available on WP7. So you can be sure that you will notice. And very soon.
  • Phones that work today will continue to work tomorrow.
    Anybody upset that their phone wasn't 100% future proof is demanding the impossible. Its not like there won't be a market to sell WP7 phones and recover some cost to upgrade to WP8 if that's what's important to you.  
  • Yeah, you tell them! How dare they buy a $700 device and expect it to last for at least a couple of years without having to run apps that will not be upgradeable for a year. Cannot buy a new $700 every year? MS doesn't care about you then.
  • I think it's safe to say that most people who don't read tech blogs couldn't care less about their phones being upgraded as long as they still work fine. If that wasn't true, Google would have been out of business a long time ago with android.
  • I just bought a Lumia 900. I perfectly know it will not be upgradeable to wp8, and so ?
    It is amazing, fast and fluid.
    When wp8 will come in october, I will pass my 900 to some friend of mine and will buy one. Where's the problem ?
  • +1.
  • +2
  • Plus 3. (Where's the plus sign on the WP keyboard?)
  • Press the "&123" button, then the giant right arrow above that key, and it will be right above the space bar.
  • +3
  • + ~
  • + infinity
  • Couldn't agree more
  • -1. It's your choice to be giving MS money every time they ask for it and ditch their existing customers.
  • Lol, iOS didn't nail it. I have an iPhone 2g laying around thats running iOS 3.2 and thats as high as Apple will let it go. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, when software will not run on hardware exactly as intended, it should not be put on there. Just sayin that this is how all software works, Apple isn't excempt.
  • Sorry, but they did "nail it". The 2G was over three years old when iOS4 was released. The iPhone 4 was out by then. How many people would think that full support for a device that's one year out of contract ins't nailing it?
  • Nope, they didn't nail it. 3G wasn't that old when Apple dropped support for it to move to 3GS and 4.
  • 3G was released July 2008. Support stopped after iOS 4.2.1 in November 2010. Which carried it to the iOS5 release in 2011 You're looking at 3 years & 3 months. Now please stop making me defend Apple as it makes my throw up in my mouth a little bit.
  • Thank you RobbCab for a single voice of reason in this ridiculous see of fanboys.
  • Wow you can't even spell, just stop you're making a fool of yourself
  • Haha! That's awesome.
  • iOS 4.2.1 for the 3G only had limited features for the 3G compared to the 3GS and shoddy performance. IMO, that's not really nailing it.
  • Sure....the latest ios will run on older iPhone. My wife got an iPhone 4 & she is holding off to get the iPhone 5. Each ios upgrade made her iPhone 4 more & more sluggisher. Now to a point it freezes on her 4-5 time a day. Is this what u rather have?
  • It's not the same as Android. Even if you' re stuck at Android 2.3 and you won't get any updates. You still will be able to download new apps. New apps are still being developed for Android 2.3. Because of the kernell shift in WP8, as soon as the WP8 SDK comes out, WP7 app developement stops and the phone becames EOL... I will say it again, EOL. This has nothing to do with getting updates but with developement.
  • Why would people who don't need WP8 APIs develop WP8 apps? It makes sense to continue developing WP7 apps while there are WP7 devices out there to cover widest customer base.
  • Simple, WP7 < WP8 + W8 + Xbox
  • This doesn't make sense. WP8 apps are not directly portable to Windows 8 nor Xbox and XNA works on WP7, WP8, desktop Windows (whatever version) and Xbox. While we have not seen the actual SDK from the presentation I am under the impression that the UI framework itself will not change in WP8, nor will most of the old APIs.
  • WP8 apps will be using different APIs. For WP8 apps, you use WinRT + DirectX where in WP7 apps, you use Silverlight + XNA. However WP8 devices can still run WP7 apps. Because Silverlight and the WinRT Metro UI system is very similar, porting Silverlight WP7 apps to WP8 will be quite simple. However porting WP7 XNA apps to DirectX on WP8 will take more time. But since WP8 devices can run existing WP7 apps, there is no need to port them unless you want to use the new APIs or require access to hardware that WP7 phones do not have.
  • WinRT is only backend API and only a subset will be in WP8. Where did you get the info that WP8 will use Windows 8 XAML system? If you are correct it would make sense for devs to abandon WP7 but I did not hear/read any such announcement and for some reason I was left with the impression that this is not the case.
     
    The issue with DirectX is of course true but I doubt devs would just switch from XNA do DirectX. XNA devs don't want to develop in native code because it is so different. For example ARMED! (best mobile game ever!) devs went for MonoGame (implementation of XNA APIs that also runs on iOS) instead of DirectX for their Windows 8 port. I guess MS will just trade one pack of game devs for another.
  • Wrong. WP 7.x development will continue until WP 8 approaches critical mass (similar number of units as WP7). When the WP8 SDK hits there will be zero customers for months for WP8 apps and several million for WP7. Remember, if you code for WP7, you're also coding for WP8. So  there will be a lot of crossover in the beginning.
    This is of course with the exception of native code games and NFC apps and a few other scenarios, but if MS brings a few of the new features (the new TellMe API for one), I can see no reason to code for WP8 exclusively out of the box. 
    Also, there a lot of apps for older Andriod phones that let you know "your phone is not compatible". Just like WP you can code for Froyo and run on Jellybean, but the other way around is a lot tougher. And with 2.3.3 still holding over 60% of the userbase, that's what most devs are doing.
     
    So in essence it's very much like Android.
  • thank you. The trolls are scarying people in here. There will be apps for the phones after win8 is released, and you explained why. I hope everyone reads this
  • It's not the same but it's very similar. New apps are being developed for 2.3 that work with 4.0 just like new apps will be developed for WP7 since WP7 apps will work on WP8.
     
    Also, there are A LOT of new apps that you can't download on 2.3, 2 big ones being Chrome & native Firefox.
     
    Also the term EOL has nothing to do with development.
  • New apps that are developed for WP8 will be backwards compatible with WP7 EXCEPT where the new app needs to access new hardware that isn't available in WP7x anyway! No they dont have to be, but which dev is going to needlessly cut out a portion of his customers unless he has to? I am so sick of repeating this I shall copy and paste into bloody word!
  • No its forward compatible, not backwards compatible. Only apps that target WP7 will run on WP7 and WP8. WP8 apps uses a different API that does not exist on WP7 so its not about the hardware only. Its up to the developers choice. For me I still have two WP7 projects in progress and unless I see any significant reason why my applications or games require WP8, I would continue with WP7 because that gives me a wider market. Plus I have already invested time and money in WP7 games engines and libraries that would not work in WP8.
  • So as soon as WP8 SDK is released and still new WP7 apps continues to appear on the Marketplace, will you come back and admit that you are a liar?
  • The reason iOS has "nailed it" is exactly the reason Windows Phone is not likely to have this problem in the forseeable future. iOS is based on the OSX kernel just as WP8 will be based on the the Windows 8 (NT) kernel. Those core technologies evolve very slowly over time,
    That said I'm still on the fence about MS's upgrade path (or lack thereof). On the one hand, I would bet dollars-to-doughnuts WP8 could run on single-core ARM processors and feel MS didn't want to invest the time to optimize the OS for so few devices. On the other, WP's strongest point is the sense of speed & fluidity you get when using it. If that would be compromised with the new OS I can why they passed us over. WP8 is already Android-like enough with it's hideous new start screen to have it start lagging now. Add to that the risk of non computer-savvy users "bricking" their devices with a complete re-flash and I can see why they skipped WP 7.x devices.
    Here's to hoping 7.8 adds more than just the start screen (read XBox music, new speech APIs, nokia turn-by-turn, etc) as Devs will code apps for 7.x until WP8 hits critical mass.
  • Word.  And thank god I'm not the only one who thinks the new start screen is hideous.
  • The start screen customisation isn't compulsory.... If you don't like it, keep it the same layout for 7.5
  • Let's not start this discussion again, because it IS compulsory. There is NO way to keep the same layout as the resizing of the tiles subtracts a row vertically.
     
     
  • It hasn't even been released, so you don't have a clue what is and isn't compulsory. Maybe you'll be able to switch the side gutter on & off. We'll find out soon enough.
  • Damn Microsoft.....have I been cursed for using your smartphones? First WM 6.5.3 screwed me then WP 7 screwed me again, now what shows that WP 8 wont screw me again? No motivation to buy a WP anymore...feel sad about all these.....hmmm...smh.
  • The difference is that WM 6.5 was burnt to the ground (all functionality and apps cast aside in WP7) while WP8 is more of an evolution bringing everything from WP7 with it.
  • I need to know if I buy a wp8 it will support wp9!
  • "It is true that this is a generational shift -- that is a rare occurrence, but it's something we don't expect to have happen again in the foreseeable future because of the headspace that the new architecture gives us."
  • If you assume it will, you're an idiot.
  • calling me and Idiot for Quoting Microsoft?
    - check your PM infraction for Insulting
  • All of these people need infractions or bans
  • I bet you got everything you wanted growing up and threw a tantrum if not. So pathetic.
  • Considering to buy a Android, i know it will not give me updates but atleast it has BFT and is open source
  • I dont understand why this is such a big topic? Tech heads love to jump on this like my phone is suddenly going to stop working and become obsolete . Everything that the phone does now, it will still do., and to be honest, smartphones do alot and the core of what we use it for. Since when are we entitled to free upgrades? Enjoy your Lumia and Titan for what it is, great phones, works great. That's what matter. Enjoy it today because you will never be happy if your always looking for the "next thing". Hell with that mentality, I should get pissed when the auto makers produce a new body style the following year , right after I just bought the latest one. We except this, and sometimes doing your research you know when the next body style comes out. Its innovation. Enjoy what you got. It won't be obselete in 18 months.
  • Microsoft should've be more supportive of 7.x, or at least more upfront about its support - i.e. assuring people that features of WP8 not-reliant on hardware or NT will be on offer in 7.8. Sorry, but as much as I like MS, the idea of abandoning your only userbase is not a good strategy. Firstly, you have absolutely no guarantee that WP8 will do well despite how well it may perform or the nice features it may offer... WP7 in Fall 2010 was every bit up there - if not ahead - of its Froyo and Gingerbread counterparts, yet we saw where the market went (much to the probable surprise of some OEMs too). Nokia with all of its 'all-in' support' managed to help MS gain .1% marketshare, and that too with the help of Samsung and HTC no less... Does this mean Nokia phones failed to sell? No, they sold well, but they didn't slam through the market enough to make a real difference. Now you're going to go for zero % share again, and deal with a mixed marketshare change (with users like me switching to WP8, or other platforms) again? There is a way out of this, and that is to make 7.x a parallel strategy for lower-end handsets while 8.x for high-end super/ultra/Optimus Prime phones. What this means is that MS supports 7.x in as far as improving the browser, replacing Zune with Xbox Music+Videos, more robust integration with social services, etc. In addition, pull 7.x prices to $150-$250, even if it means just producing Lumia 710/Focus 2/Radar like devices, and flood those in the emerging markets as real feature phone replacements. Flood them hard. This way you will assure us that app development (especially in emerging markets) will continue for 7.x phones, and that big vendors (e.g. news agencies) will support both 7.x and 8.x given the expansiveness of the market.   
  • Yes, they knew.  The right thing to do for people adopting the platform recently (900, Focus S, etc) is to offer a huge upgrade discount when WP8 comes out.   It would paint MS in a much better light saying "Hey, sorry about that, look we'll help you get the latest since the current latest wasn't actually the latest at all..." :P
  • They don't have to please brats
  • This is mainly an issue for the folks who jumped on the Mango bandwagon. I *do* feel badly for them.
    For first-gen adopters in the U.S. like myself, this barely raises an eyebrow. My 2-year contract will expire not long after WP8 is rolled out. From a purely selfish perspective, there's nothing at all to be concerned about.
  • i actually see this as a good thing that they expected this from the get-go. Better then 2-years in and they going "oops oh well".
  • Where is this EOL announcement people are be talking about? 7.8 has been announced, and I think I remember OTA update functionality being included there. Microsoft must know they have to make this transition as smooth as possible to keep what they have gained, and to me it seems they are planning continued support for current devices for some time to come.
  • You know trolls will be trolls. In fact we have people announcing EOL for planet Earth this year. So possibly we will all be obsolete by next year. Then people will start complaining in heaven why GOD did not inform us earlier even though he knows we're about be obliterated.
  • I completely understand and I'm all for the break happening with WP8, my biggest issue is that Microsoft should have switched to NT with WP7. Breaking Windows Mobile with an OS using the same kernel as a stop gap was just insulting. I held off on Windows Phone, but apparently not long enough. I just hope they do right for their user base and include all of the non-hardware dependent WP8 features in WP7.8, but I'm not hopeful.
  • I absolutely agree with @dormamu, which upset people is the langage dev shift: no more apps....which turns your smartphone in few months into simple outdated phone. I am sorry I bought a phone that will value nothing in few months even on the second hand market....
  • Our phones only need to work until December 21, 2012, so what's the big deal?
     
    Of course Microsoft said nothing about WP8 not being able to run on WP7 devices. Is there a single person alive who seriously believes announcing this fact two years ago would not have hurt WP?
     
    OTOH, I do think this article needs to be updated on iOS's nailing of it. Not entirely true, based on the experiences of iCoworkers.
  • I faced the same bad influence buying 3 years ago the HTCHD2...running wm 6.5 promising fro. Microsoft to run wp7....but didn't. Now I can't even use wp6.5 even if I would so cause Microsoft close Down old marketplace....i had to go illegal and thanks to XDA I have final rom of WP 7.5 tango .the device works fine but for Microsoft was not good to update also for Htc...but the phone still rocks. I had the same disappointment then....now I can fully understand Nokia lumia customers and how they have fucked them....no devices with a 6000-700 euro reserves the best and companies should care for them and their owners. I personally think I will not buy another WP device
    .
  • In my eyes wp7 is the same as windows vista. It was thrown out there to keep us occupied while they finish the real deal wp8 or like windows 7 for pc
  • I certainly understand and agree that this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone with remotely any knowledge of how technology works. On the other hand, I can also see why this would anger some or rub them the wrong way. The Lumia 900 was, at the very least in tech circles, hyped as this next great thing. Couple that with the really silly ads about the "beta test being over" and you can see why some would be disappointed. For me, one of the things that has been a bit annoying is the "wait til the next update" mantra in promising things. Again, I understand these guys are in the business of selling as many phones as possible and that technology changes so fast and often.
  • I was always happy from the onset, while I did enjoy the new features and capabilities when they were introduced, I never felt WP7 was ever lacking. Do I EVER loathe the toads who kept trying to bring it down all these years...new leaps are always being provided and I have YET to be disappointed! Windows Phone Forever!!! =O
  • I think I might be the only one that thinks this is a good thing, and wish that iPhone and Android would do a major shift in their OS's. Imagine if apple announce in the next couple months, "this is iOS 6 and is available on iPhone 5 only," completely abandoning the grid of icons they've been too lazy to update since they first made it 5-6 years ago. Innovation in the mobile market has come to a grinding halt since apple introduced is to a path where everyone gets the newer OS updates, on hardware that was never intended for it.
  • That will happen, apple can't ride those dull square icons for all the apps for ever.
  • The change from windows mobile to the new windows phone platform is huge. I for one can understand the need for a stepping stone to get there. Apple and Google never had such a legacy issue to deal with (although they probably will at some future point now to be able to get to where wp8 can go). I wish that ms had the nerve to do the same thing in the desktop space years ago.
  •  
    Lots of interesting comments, but lets face it MOST of the people on this forum are enthusiasts and will no doubt be wanting all the latest updates that a platform or vendor can offer.
    However, I would suggest that the majority of WP7 users are NOT enthusiasts or on these forums and probably don’t know / care about what’s coming out in 6 months or so.  It doesn’t detract from the fact these are pretty decent devices and very under-rated in the industry.
    I do accept, however, that as the date approaches there should be some transparency from MS communicated to its potential customers about something new.  But lets face it, it’s a business and they have to operate profitably and respectful of its (loyal) customer-base but look forward to increasing that with better products to increase market-share.
    I bought a Titan end of last year – locked into it now for 18m.  Am I upset I cant upgrade to WP8 – hell yeah.  Who knows whats going to be on WP7.8???  Being an enthusiast I will probably sell it and get a Zenith or something.
    But, I am really happy there is a decent leap forward in hardware / functions rather than a gradual trickle!
    There is ALWAYS something new coming out.  ALWAYS!  What should MS do re Win 8?  Current Win 7 hardware doesn’t support NFC and most PC’s don’t have touchscreens so I cant use that function.
    Even when VW launch a new Golf – there is the next version on the drawing board.
    xBox 720… PSP.. list goes on.
    And with the new core, this clearly enables MS to forge forward with business and home apps and synchronisation.
    There are now likely to be several versions of Win 8 / WP8 – I do think that instead of a WP7.8 there should be a WP8 ‘lite’ version that simply doesn’t expose the functionality of the new hardware if its not present.  Maybe the issue there would have been app compatibility though.
     
     
  • Microsoft shouldn't have made a big deal about androids supposed fragmentation and boasting that they always provide updates when they knew jolly well they were going to do the same thing android does. Saying it won't happen again anytime soon doesn't make new owners any happier.
  • "Microsoft shouldn't have made a big deal about androids supposed fragmentation and boasting that they always provide updates"
     
    Except MS is providing updates...
  • I think he means that WP7 gets exactly 1 more update before being thrown to the wolves.
  • He said that they were not going to provide updates.  Which we already know is false.  Include Tango in there with WP7.8 and users got at LEAST 2 updates.  And it is certainly pretty likely that there will be some sort of update after that as well (bug fixes, etc).  So making an argument that intentionally gives the illusion that MS is abandoning current phones, is not supported by reality.
  • If they knew or didn't know is irrelevant, I as a consumer want the best out of the platform I chose, so wp8 getting me closer to what I expect from Microsoft. I just paid full price for my HTC Titan II and was fully aware of the Apollo upgrade that's was around the corner. MS felt an urgency to compete in the mobile space and launched prematurely, WP8 is the OS we should have been introduced to. My opinion
  • Again we still don't know what's in 8
  • Am I the only one using a windows phone 7 I got through the smoked by win phone challenge. As long as there is win 8 challenge, I'll be fine. High five to my fellow cheapskates out there!!
  • **-- that is a rare occurrence, but it's something we don't expect to have happen again in the foreseeable future because of the headspace that the new architecture gives us.**
    that’s all I care about.   and is much more then any other Company can say.
    and if you think other companies don’t hide Dirty secrets like MS then your kidding your self’s.  
  • *Cough*WM 6.5*Cough*
  • The wife has always had a iPhone that we last Gen, iPhone 4 right now, and I can confirm that every touch response is slower then it was when it was new. And I am one of those that actually setups up the phone as a new phone when a big update comes out so no junk is pulled in from restoring it from a back up. At the rate we are moving, it won't be long before there is no support for an OS after 12 months.
  • I am not at all sad about not getting WP8. I am happy with what my phone does.. The announcement of WP8 did not brick my awesome lumia 900. Its still is an awesome phone.
  • Off subject question. When I type lumia on my lumia 900 , why is it underlined in red like I am spelling it wrong? Shouldn't the name of the phone be built into the dictionary? Its the little things that make the big difference.
  • Very true sir.
  • That's funny :)
  • You have to either capitalize the word or +Lumia after highlighting it =P
  • Its not a word dude...
  • actually it is ,  the Art of lights.
  • In English?
  • I don't care. I still love my HTC Titan. I'll get a Windows 8 phone when the time is right.
  • This is only a big deal because us WP users are a passionate bunch. Nobody with an Android is complaining about the non-upgradeability of most of their devices.
  • Yes, because they just head to XDA and get a custom ROM. But we have nothing left but to complain.
  • Actually everyone does and they should..borg phones are wrong on SO many levels =p
  • Dude, everyone can say what they want and complain but at the end of the day THEY aren't the ones actually making this stuff happen, bridging the gaps between mobile and desktop OS...whatever crybabies! =/
  • Who buys a phone for what it might get the in the future rather than what it can do today?  That's all I ask.  
     
    When you purchase any electronic device, you're taking a gamble that it may or may not be updated in the future.  That's why if there's something you can't live with about a device unless it gets updated, you shouldn't buy it.  
     
    I'm new to the WP7 scene as I just bought last week a HTC Trophy off contract from ebay.  I had a Droid X which served me well, but was borked by the OTA GB release that was pushed to it a year ago.  If the Trophy gets no further update that what it already has, I'm fine with that and knew going in that this may be it since it is a much older device.  Technology and software changes at lightning pace and it's not fair (for a lack of better term) to expect an older EOL device to consistently be updated fore more than a couple of years.  
     
    Oh, and my original iPad runs like crap since all the iOs revisions have been updated.  It's slow (not my internet which is cable 20mbps) and not nearly as smooth as it once was.  
  • Honestly my phone does what i need it to do SkyDrive calendar phone and email i use my lumia mainly for work and i plan on getting a surface and a wp8 from Nokia in the future all this talk about non complete os' is dumb in the end its a phone just like apples iPhone and googles android and rims bberry and hps webos they are used to keep you organized if i wanted my phone for games I'd have gotten a PS vita im aware people have different uses for their phones but by no means is wp7 incomplete and anyone in here complaining is entitled to their opinion but honestly If they are so unhappy why not just get a different phone instead of making such a big deal about everything
  • I don't feel like reading the sea of complaints just to see if mine has been mentioned, and the chances of it being noticed are equally slim. But I want to make light of something.
    I can purchase a Nokia Lumia 900 right now,  and it will not be upgraded to the newest milestone Windows Phone software that releases later this year.
    I could purchase an iPhone 4S at the same AT&T store, with a GUARANTEE that it will run the next milestone iOS 6, and likely iOS 7.
    This certainly bothers me.
    It seems Microsoft is using the same approach it did with the red-ringed Xbox 360: Release a half-baked product to get on store shelves, and worry about it later when sh*t hits the fan.
  • I can understand what you're saying, but what you can also do is add on 2 more lines and buy an iPhone 3GS & HTC Status while you're getting the Lumia & iPhone 4S and 3 out of those 4 phones won't get the next milestone BUT the Lumia will at least get a footstone in 7.8 (that joke won't make any sense to those using the metric system).
     
    But I understand your complaint.
  • I not only read your complaint but agree completely. And this is why no one will be buying a windows phone until windows phone 8.
  • Its apparently the MrBurrns bitch show.
    you need a flip phone sir. Technology is not for you.
  • You do not know me. Please don't make judgements about people you know nothing about.
  • pot calling the kettle black
  • My snarky response would be "duh, of course they knew". I reckon it was decided when 6.5 was slated for destruction. W8 was years away but they needed to do an OS reboot... So they just used the same defunct CE kernel and built WP7 on top of it. WP8 is the true OS reboot.
  • It is hard to understand why people are getting so worked up about this.  If you like how Apple is doing things, then get an iPhone and be happy.  Otherwise, realize that Microsoft is still doing a much better job at this than Android.  You can still choose hardware that best suits your needs, but you also still get an OS that runs well no matter which handset you choose!  Not to mention that Microsoft is making sure us gen1 and gen2 handset owners will still get some of the WP8 goodies in the form of WP7.8.  I don't see Android making an effort to bring some of the Ice Cream Sandwich enhancements to older non-compatible handsets.  Just be patient, ride out your contract and get the next latest and greatest when it comes out.
  • Technically, I got my Lumia 900 for free.... so, if I feel the need to run out and buy a WP8 device... it won't hurt as much. Odds are... I will most likely wait as long as possible, to see the second generation WP8 phones. Those will probably work better than the first.
  • Hey guys, I attended an windows phone VIP event in san Francisco the day of the event and we were told that 2/3 of the team that built wp7, shifted to working to transform the kernel to the new wp8 kernel. So yes Microsoft did know about the changes. We were told that has soon as WP was released, that's when MS started working on the shift. There is not doubt MS knew about this when they released WP.
  • Ultimately, it was the only play they could make. Enough press to get Metro into the public, but not a large enough base to sweat backwards compatibility. If Microsoft had waited until Holiday 2012 to release it's first modern device, the delay would have been worse. At least this wp7 trial has given some positive press and lots of feedback.
  • Geez you'd think people would be grateful for what ms is trying to do in unifying platforms...
  • It's better to to change architecture now than later anyway.
  • When someone buys a new tv and 6 months later a new model comes out, no one seems to complain or say their tv is EOL. It's funny how entitled we feel when it comes to phones about receiving updates. I suppose we can "blame" it on Apple. If Android had come out first, maybe the collective mindset would feel different about fragmentation. I definitely feel like MSFT messed up when it comes to the L900 campaign knowing it wouldn't have an upgrade path to 8. I would hope they offer some kind of buy back program, but if not, the phone still works and does what it needs to do. Those owners will have to take what 7.8 offers and bide their time until they can upgrade.
  • The hilarious part of your post is that in 6 months, that TV you bought might literally be EOL (as in Samsung stopped making the TV you bought last January), but you'd never know and so there are no complaints.
     
    Your post is spot on.
  • I will get the surface,and wp8 phone. PERIOD.. People complain cuz MSFT waited too long to do something,now they are doing something and still people complain.. Dudes this is technology,there will be something new all the time..on the business side MSFT has to do this....$$$$ don't worry about Nokia,they will keep using the 7.8 for emerging markets that doesn't really need all the high end features that wp8 has..
  • I'm not going to read all the complaints.  I'm just going to put in my 2 cents.
     
    Does no one remember how long WP7 was in development?  When it launched, for better or worse, it was already behind the curve.  And while it's been a great OS so far, it did lack some of the features that Google and Apple had already implemented or were in the process of implimenting.  Fortunately, the updates haven't slowed it down in the least and the apps have been slowly building on the marketplace.  
     
    So while you're all butthurt because Microsoft didn't invite you to their planning meeting for WP8, maybe you should realize that planning a mobile OS is a monumental effort that requires a lot of time and coordination to bring to market.  And realize that even if you just bought your new Lumia 900, you're still using a fantastic phone.
     
    Damn, I hate the entitled bitches.
  • Dont bother me none. MS could have been working on WP8 since 1995 for all i care. Good product is good product. They did what they needed or wanted. Either I'm going to by good product or I'm not. I don't think this is bad as makeing phones in sweat shops or selling consumers personal information etc. If it comes out that MS has business practices that are opposed to my moral beliefs, then I would consider changing my opinion. But until then..their business practices to seem to be worse than the competitors...so I'll stick with the better product.
  • jumping from one platform to another, this is a bummer for early adopters. Should've done the math
  • Fooling the customers it may seem like. But since i got onboard from the start, here in Sweden there were channels indicating that we as early adopter could feel some what exclusive to use WP, we would be in from the start, and that was really the thing. We was promised great things and, i dont know, i was a little suprised that we wouldnt get this at all, and in the same time, the "great things" now feel like, this is what they were talking about. Wierd feeling.
  • Everybody should know that every os has secrets to make more $ in the future. Of course they did this, they want to sell more phones.
  • Sure, the phones wont stop working...
    But if you buy a decent computer, dont you expect it to run new OS updates and software for a couple of years?
    If you bought the Xbox 360 when it was new, didnt you expect it to get updates and games for a couple of years?
     
    I guess the people who say that the Lumia 900 and Titan is as good as when we bought them and that we should be happy with that, they run an outdated an insecure Win PC and just uses Paint and Notes? And just play NHL 2K6 on their 360?
    My 360 costed 450 USD and has been supported for 7 years.
    My HTC Titan costed 900 USD and will be supported for not even 1 year.
    The WP smartphones are small computer/entertainment devices, so there why am I an idiot who expect it to be supported for a couple of years?
  • +1
  • Why do people keep acting like the current phones won't be getting any updates?  Not getting WP8 is not the same thing as not getting any updates...SMH
  • gmlongo, because its suits their bias. They are probably iPhone boys trolling away.
    Phone always get major OS revs. Comparing a Console to a Phone it like company my Bike to my Car - plainly stupid.
    Consoles always last years, phones rarely do.
    Such over inflated expectation is insane. People have an agenda, Mr Burns is to troll this thread.
  • I'm not going to think about this anymore. Right now is bottom line, I don't what else is coming on 7.8 and why they only left it at 7.8. Could there be a 7.9? That will be mean that an original device will have gone through 3-4 upgrade cycles. And the newer ones maybe 2 which is what usually happens. My iPad is almost unusable after the last update. And my jetstream doesn't even get an update past its shipped ROM. And that was supposed to get everything.
  • I think it's called 7.8 because of the 8 ... to demonstrate that's its close to what you get with the real wp8 ;)
  • I truly believe that if Microsoft had another year to work on WP7... There would have been no CE. Right from day one in parallel they were developing the NT Kernal stuff...
  • This is exactly why I hedged my bets with the Lumia 710 in April..  I wanted the WP experience, couldn't wait any longer (getting hammered by overage charges by Bell and my dumbphone), so I bit the bullet, paid $235 for a Rogers upgrade that someone didn't want off of Kijiji. I've thoroughly enjoyed it ever since.
     
    WP8 was a big question mark back then, so I couldn't consider a $500-600 phone, even subsidized, when a $235 unit with the same specs (less a bit of storage) did just fine for now until the dust settled. 1700/2100 support for Wind Mobile just happened to help the decision for me to take the 710 to Wind over Rogers.
     
    I figure if I'm going to get a subsidy for my phone, it had better be a good one (multi-core, higher res screen) that can compare to the Galaxy or One series, even though at this point the WP environment doesn't need it, WP8 certainly will start to. I'm looking forward to the 2nd gen of Nokia phones later this year, knowing I can sell my 710 at much less of a loss than a $500 or $600 Lumia 800/900 or Titan.
     
    "The Beta-test is Over!".. hah.. didn't realize until recently how true that statement was. It seems that WP7 was one big Beta test for WP8. Unfortunately some people invested into the current system more than others.
  • When I bought my car I assume they would come out with a newer car. Tech items are the same. New today, obsolete tomorrow...
  • Well, lets not be naive. What would have been the alternative? Not develop wp7 and wait for wp8 after MS already missed a cycle with windows mobile? Of course not. Tell everybody not to bother buying wp7 devices because they won't get wp8? No way. Don't get me wrong, I would rather have wp8 on my lumia 800. But I have no problem understanding the circumstances which forced MS to do it the way they did. Because I would've done the same, no doubt.
  • Obviously they knew. It's a business. But Microsoft is really putting themselves in a less than perfect spot with this bad pr. I know we think they are too big to fail here but that is also a bad way to think.... Another thing, ppl don't buy their phones for the right now. I'm sorry but using that as an argument is dumb. Ppl pay a lot of money for their phones and expect them to get major updates nowadays. Just saying...
  • The fact that phones are PCs now and MS feels this way is terrible, even worse is that so many in the community except it. I might go the android route now, then it's really mine. I can search for porn by hitting search, my voice to text won't sensor me. A new start screen with new colors, a personalization does not make.
  • Dude seriously? That's what dailymotion is for, no censoring.
  • I think they should keep the 7.8 's out for budget users, and sell W8 for the more serious users.
  • I can't realise why is everybody pissed with Microsoft.
    When Windows Phone 7.5 and even Windows Phone 7 have been released, the phones with this OS could only have single core CPUs and a not so high screen resolution and were competing with Android phones with Dual Core and 720p resolution and iPhones, also with Dual Core and even higher resolution. It was obvious that, at some point, there would need to be created Windows Phones with more powerfull hardware.
    At least, Microsoft didn't acted like Apple fooling people, saying iOS5 and iOS6 is exactly the same in iPhone 4S or iPhone 5 and iPhone 3GS. It is not, and Windows Phone 8 would also not be the same in first or second generation Windows Phones and Third Generation.
    It was obvious that, at some point, first and second generation Windows Phones would not be able to be updated because releasing Windows Phone 8 to first gen Windows Phones and even second gen would only slow down the Windows Phone Ecossistem.
    I knew that and, even so, I bought a Lumia 800 less than two months ago. At the time, I already knew I would need to buy a new phone in one year or less. I just got a Lumia because  Windows Phone is best OS ever. It is a OS that changed the XBox and even the Windows and the Microsoft Office, and I'm proud of having one in the top of my desk while I write this. I'm proud of being one of the people who told Nokia they are going in the right way with Microsoft and Windows Phone instead of Android...
    I know it is a pain for people who got a new Lumia 90 or 800, or a Titan or Titan II, or a Focus S or a Focus LTE and I agree we should get more stuff from Windows Phone 8 than the Start Screen, like XBox Music and the new Game Hub. But Windows Phone 7.8 is more than any Andoid user will ever get and it doesn't feel like if Microsoft was trying to fool us like Apple, so: I could not have more proud of my almost outdated Nokia Lumia 800!
  • Don't see the problem, the phones will still work (and work good) and we will still get apps as developers will still make them and use the current tools so they can release them for both marketplaces so the the most users possible will have access to them.
    Lumia owner since November
  • I love how they said the Smart Phone beta test is over. Lol We were also teat dummies for the Zune Hd, we were testing the metro interface.
  • You bought a working device that presumably you were pleased with.  The product line ending changes that not one bit.  The Zune I own still seems to do everything it ever did.
  • Did anyone here consider that Microsoft is now working on Windows 9. I mean come on people, that's why they put numbers on these platforms cause they move forward. So move along people. Can't wait for WP9.
  • Exactly. Blizzard were probably working on Starcraft 3 long before the shipped Starcarft 2.
    (Well, Heart of the Swarm, maybe not 3)
    But point being, large companies making software will always be starting the next project long before the current one even ships.
    Amazes me this is even news. A very provacative news post that didn't need to be "out there".
    Its not a surprise, its no unsual, and it only fans the andy Lumia owner people (who are angry as they didn't read before they put their dollars down, and will still get updates anyway)
    Oh well :)
     
  • The interview doesn't say MS knew the phones wouldn't upgrade, just that Windows 8 was being worked on in parallel.
  • Yeah, thinking of the "The smartphone beta test is over" campaign makes me smile every time. Not only because the Lumia 900 had several problems at the launch. Mostly because there must have been so many people at MS and Nokia that knew that in a month or so they would announce WP8 and phase out the real beta test; WP7...
  • Wow what a bunch of idiotic entitled crybaby losers. There are soo many more things to be concerned about than a phone.
  • Wp7 apps will work on wp8. What R U beefing about.
    Shock horror windows 8 team was working on it b4 windows 7 was released. And vista/win 7 and etc.
    Its just a phone. They are amazing. I don't want my trophy slowed down on newer stuff
    my iPhone 3g is rubbish after IOS upgrades slowed it down.
    Its better go us.
  • Sure, on a much older hardware the new OS might be slow but if Apple or Google released a new phone today knowing that in 3 months they'll announce a new OS that won't work on that phone, they'll get the same treatment.
     
    The problem here isn't so much that the update won't come to a gen1 device, it's that it won't come to a phone that was just released three months ago.
     
    And it's more of a perception problem. I don't know how many of the lumia 900 owners would care about the update. Android users don't really care, iphone users want the latest OS as soon as it's released. 
  • Microsoft did not announce a phone 3 months ago. Nokia did.
    This is the bit most people are confused about.
    I bought a Macbook from Apple the day before a new one came out.
    I bought an iPhone 3G, that months later was superceded by the 3GS (and iOS 4 ran cr4p on the 3G)
    Technology moves on. Gets update, better get used to that people!
  • How many big software upgrades work on the older hardware? that's too generic. most big software upgrades work on older hardware. you want to limit that to OS? windows always works on existing hardware, so does OSX.
    you want to just talk about mobile? sure, ios is the only one, but this was the big issue with Android and when Microsoft came out with WP7 they were talking big about the updates. You can claim it as a differentiator and do the same crap.
    If you want to know when Microsoft knew about it, it was probably a little before their partners. If you were wondering why Verizon didn't want to release a wp7.5 device when the LTE Nokia phone was available to them, now you know. There's a reason they kept saying they'll get more phones when WP8 comes out, they didn't want angry customers (something AT&T never cared about)
  • Wp7.5 is NOT beta
    The essence and spirit of the phone is still the real thing.
  • Wow reading updates to this post... I have one more contribution to make... Were all WP7 fans (or trolls that love to hate the product so much they follow and comment on WP news). Lets not get too rude with each other lest we become as rabid as the members of other forums might be.
  • I hope MS will offer a trade in scheme when WP8 comes out. That would take a lot of the heat out of the 'bad' publicity and would be a great pr.
  • I believe all that is Nokia fault and not Microsoft's. Ms did whatever they have to do to improve the is. Nokia announce lumia 900 out of timing. They had lumia 800 it was enough for WP 7,5 they should have the 900 as wp8 device and not fucked up their customers 4 months before the updated os cause except the selling marketing the devices price is high to play such games......
  • Exactly. I had my WP7 18 months ago. In 6 months time that will be 2 years!
     
    The only people with a beef are Lumia owners. They should have read up, plain and simple.
    They will STILL get 7.8 and updates, and their phone will run perfectly until their next upgrade.
     
    Pointless post on WP Central. Should take it down IMHO :)
  • All I have to say is "Well, duh." WP8 has been in development for months, and there's no way they could have gone into it NOT knowing what the hardware specs needed to be to support it's planned features. I can't even begin to fathom that anyone would even be remotely naive enough to believe otherwise.
  • Sure it sucks but there is not any electronic device that you buy today that is not obsolete tomorrow. I applaud ms for taking the plunge. They were simply putting their foot in the door before it locked them out.
  • I love my Lumia 900 and it is state of the art. When the Lumia 1000 comes out in May 2013, I will buy it too. It is naive to believe any WP8 phones will be out before then. Also, why can't we have the same experience of the Apple fanboys and get a new device every year. I am excited!
  • Wp8 launches in the fall of 2012. Idk where you are at but in the USA we will be having phones when it launches.
  • Dan again you are feeding the trolls with this article. I understand you are just reporting but you know what you're doing when you do it. Its almost up to 300 comments.
  • I'd say of course they did. WP7 was a stop gap: Windows Mobile death was imminent when the iPhone hit the market. MS needed to test their new user experience on the market and time to develop what we know now as WP8.
  • Some articles should have disabled comments like what WMPU does.
  • I've said this on a number of other threads and I've yet to see someone provide a reasonable answer. The hardware to make a WP8 compatible device was available (dual core, NFC, LTE, etc.) and MS chose not to allow the OEMs to make it - WHY NOT?
  • Holy snaps!  Who knew there was going to be an upgrade to WP7?  Man I feel robbed!!!  Shucks!  I was robbed by Canon because I just bought a new S260 and damn Canon will be making a S270 next year!  Shucks!  I was robbed by Nissan!  I just bought a new Altima!  Damn now I hear Nissan will be coming out with a better version of the Altima next year!  Damn!  I just bought a new XBox 360! Now I hear there will be a new Xbox 720 next year!  Everytime I purchase something new there is something new and better coming out from the same manufactuer!  I always thought once I purchased an item there would NEVER be another iteration of it made!  Who knew that wasn't the case?!!!  IDIOTS!
  • No regrets, I think. MS had to make a move and risk totally loosing on market because of a delay
  • If anything, it says alot about how great the OS is considering it was not even their ultimate goal... No regrets being part of this.... Can't wait for wp8!
  • If this is all true, it goes to cooberate my inital feelings abotu WP7 from teh beginning.  With the lack of real push for the design and OS, I felt like it was a neglected platform.   If they were working on WP8 at teh same time they were working on WP7, why?  Why wasn't WP8 brought out and broght in as WP7 instead?  I didn't jump right in and held on to my WM6.5 for awhile and didn't move into WP7 until just before Mango so I didn't suffer the limited OS that othersdid initially.  It didn't look like WP7 was finished when it was 1st released.  Now they are starting from scratch again.  This is horrible marketing on the part of Microsoft.  Whether they let original, early adopters, upgrade or notis really irrelevent.  They annouced a hardware platform standard that they apparently knew was going to change since they were instilling the ability to accept things like scalability for cheaper devices, SD Card acceptance, etc.
    In some ways it just sounds like irty marketing.  They were pushing WP7 out like Used Car Salesmen.  Selling a system with an already out of date OS that is just barely going past it's typical 2-4 year usable life cycle.
    Will I move up to a WP8 device?  Most likely.  Maybe.
    I just hope they figure it out before they go belly up in this market and leave us with nothing more than Apple, Google and eventually Mozilla, I guess.
  • Or that WP8 is based on W8 - which is not even out.
    Seriously dude, get a grip.
    MS used what they had for WP7, and had a longer term strategy to use the W8 kernel on PHONE, TABLET and PC
    One OS across all platforms. One set of development targets.
    Apps can be targetted for both 7 and 8. 8 can now also port native C code from other OSes.
    Its genius.
    No one "actually" cares about this, unless your a recent owner who is miffed you won't get an upgrade. Well, you WILL to 7.8. (And who knows if more will come out)
    End of the year, well spec'd hardware to match Android and iPhone will be out. With a brilliant OS.
    Its a great time to be a WP owner.
     
  • "There's an old saying in Tennessee—I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee—that says, 'Fool me once, shame on, shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again.'" Pres. George W. Bush; September 17, 2002.
    That's what this is about pure and simple.  When MS dumped its entire base of loyal Windows Mobile users in 2010 it claimed WP7 was absolutely necessary because of new hardware requirements, but fret not, not only would WM 6.x be kept alive and supported as a parallel platform for enterprise use, and lower end phones in poor countries (as "Windows Phone Classic") but that the new model for WP7 would be the Apple model, where all handsets, within reason, would be upgraded by MS, not the carriers, to the most current OS available.  Regardless, thousands of WinMo users still fled to Apple or Android.  That's a lot of customers switching over.
     
    Now, near 1.5 years on, its the same old story.  MS lied, handsets died.  Again the same story of disposable handsets, a dumped platform getting a one-off token update and then being  wound down, and, soon the apps will be all written for 8 and will not work on 7.  It will take time but will happen.  Probably within the two years this bunch of Lumia 900 people have on their new contracts.
     
    At least as a WM 6.5 user, I got a free Lumia 900 during the WP challenge promotion with no contract.  Hopefully MS will do the same deal to entice new users once the WP8 models come out.
    This is all about marketing.  People don't care about justifications why this is happening they just, rightly or wrongly, feel burned.  And consumers who feel slighted tend to go away and not come back.  And they tell their friends the same.  And those people tend to go out an buy an iPhone, where, at least they can have faith in the manufacturer fully supporting their phones for a longer period than 18 months....
    MS would be very wise to give rebates to existing WP7 users wanting to upgrade to WP8.  Even if they lose money, it buys them back some very important consumer good will that will last longer than 18 months.
  • >And those people tend to go out an buy an iPhone
    Oh please. I got no gaurantee with my iPhone 3G when the 3GS and iOS 4 came out.
    My phone ran like a dog, I had missing features. Battery lasted half as long. I sold my iPhone.
    Citing the iPhone as the gold standard is hilarious. Think (or at least Bing) before you post, theres a good boy.
     
  • It's time for MS to stand up and take responsibility for this screw job. Also provides a low cost process for upgrading to WP8 phones. Unfortunately the assholes at apple will come out the better for this screw job!
  • xbox got the same treatment, but then xbox360succeeded anyway.  i doubt this shift will cause any problems.  im already seeing teens embracing metro style phones.