Did Microsoft know Windows Phone 7 would be superceded prior to its launch?
Not great news today from the Windows Phone camp. It would appear that CNET have been chatting with Greg Sullivan from Microsoft and what he has said isn't what Windows Phone users wanted to hear.
It seems that Microsoft has know for a long time that Windows Phone 7 would be replaced by Windows Phone 8.
While I would imagine that the majority of blogs that write about this will just complain about Microsoft keeping us in the dark, I on the other hand am looking at this realistically. How many operating systems are there that get a big software upgrade that will then work on all older hardware? As far as I can see there is only one that seems to have nailed it and that is iOS. While Android tries to update as many devices from the past 18 months or so they are quite often at the mercy of the carriers and manufacturers. At least Apple seem to have a good track record of keeping older hardware up to date. RIM has been guilty of the same. Many OS 5.0 handsets were not upgradable to BlackBerry 6 and none of those were ever going to see BlackBerry 7.
What I am getting at here is that this is just the way the mobile industry works. Sure, if you have bought a Windows Phone in the last 6 months or so it may have been nice to know an update was coming and the hardware would not be compatible. But that is never going to happen as manufactures need to sell phones.
At least it is encouraging to know that we shouldn't see this scenario again for some time with Windows Phone.
The whole thing isn't ideal but ideal but that's how the business seems to work.
Windows Central Newsletter
Get the best of Windows Central in your inbox, every day!
The problem is, that no, this does not happen with other operating systems. RIM has been very upfront about their OS 10 and that older devices will not geti it. And Apple and Google ALWAYS provide updates for the older phones. Of course this applies to the Nexus brand of Android, but even for other phones you can always go with a custom ROM because Android is open source. With WP you are at the mercy of Microsoft.
So this is NOT the same and Microsoft has really screwed the WP users. Please make no excuses for them.
So no, your opinion is not legit in this case, because you are wrong.
My statement still stands though that some phones that are getting ICS will run slow and laggy.
Sony Ericsson did the right thing with their Xperia play for example taking back their ICS update as they said it would be too slow. And they actually officially went out warning all of their users of other phones in their 2011 lineup that the update to ICS would be a compromise in performance in regards to Gingerbread.
AND they can now focus on making WP8 the best it can be without trying to pretend hardware is there or check constantly for this or for that... I mean, really. If it had been more software features it would be one thing, but it's really not.
I am sorry to say this, but you are completely clueless. The most important thing about WP8 is the software, not the hardware. Nobody cares about NFC, dual cores or high res screens. They are nice, but you do not NEED them. But what you will very soon find out is that you NEED the software improvements that WP8 brings – new APIs, native code support and all this backend stuff that you obviously have no clue about.
So please stop with the “WP8 will not give you new hardware” nonsense. It is irrelevant.
Apparently Steve Jobs has risen from the dead. I guess we can discount all of the excitement over quad cores and HD screens.
Software and hardware are equally important for WP8 because it must fight the admittedly idiotic battle over specs for the general consumer. No you do not need them, but for hardware parity, they are needed.
Now, the best thing for them and carriers would be a deal to upgrade devices early and have MS just eat the cost. It's the right thing to do for people who are adopting the platform right NOW. Myself? I bought a focus on day 1 so I'm going to upgrade anyway. But someone who bought a 900 yesterday? Yeah, highly discounted upgrade is what they should have an option for.
My point is, it is a VERY valid comparison and it isn't excusing them.
Lumia was not a Microsoft phone, it was a Noklia phone as Nokia decided to jump ship to Windows. The Lumia phones won't stop working, in fact I have a Lumia 710 that got 3 updates only yesterday. 7.8 will also come to it. I'm very happy I will get new functionality on the 2 WP7 phones I have.
But I will also rush out and buy a v8 phone when they come out.
I won't any longer buy a Blackberry, as I hardly ever get a guaranteed update, and I have a Blackberry for work (although thats under review).
Andoird is a fragmented mess. I won't go there. The only viable place it to go back to iPhone, its still the most supported.
But as Hotmail (moved off GMAIL, and GApps) Skydrive, Xbox, OneNote, Windows 7 users I still think Windows Phone 8 will be the best experience.
Microsoft have provided me with the most solid phone experience I've ever had, and I reckon 8 might be a truly sweety deal.
WHen IOS cmae out for 3GS, some features did not work on the 3G model:
"When running on iPhone 3G, iOS 4 disables multitasking, background wallpapers, Bluetooth keyboard support, and a "data protection" feature"
Not only that, it ran like cr4p - and my battery lasted much less. I offloaded my iPhone 3G at that point, it was knobbled. So take the Apple tinted glasses off. Windows Phone is no better or no worse in this respect.
Its still much better than the "maybe you will" "maybe you won't" Android or Blackberry updates. And this is coming from someone who has owned all phones, and not talking from "talk" but experience.
The older iPhones are not going to get the full v5 update and features. They can't Android is the same way. Not every device is going to support ICS, so the point you're trying to make is false. And the majority of WP8 features wouldn't be supported on existing hardware anyway, because these devices don't have the built in chips, slots, GPUs, etc to support the big features that Apollo is bringing. So again, everyone is making a big to do about nothing. That's a fact.
I do agree that some Lumia owners will feel like they have been left behind, especially those in the US as they couldn't upgrade for another 18-20 months.
"mine is that the lumia is a mild upgrade for those looking for lte, but that's it"
That's your opinion, and it couldn't be more wrong. But yeah, you're going to reply "nuh, uh. The Focus S is better, blah, blah, blah." And I'll reply with "you're opinion is dumb, blah, blah, blah." We can go around in circles. You love the Focus S. I like the Focus S, and believe the Lumia 900 is light years better. I'll leave it at that.
They needed SOMETHING on the market right away, and they new W8 based system would not be ready for two more years.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but you just seem to always be using words wrong.
EOL = End of life = When a OEM stops producing phones = clearly not whats happening here.
Its like saying all the none Upgradedble Android Phoens are EOL, yet they are the once that sale the most and get manifacturted the most by OEMs.....
the word your looking for is Obsolete but it isnt cause it still works...
it was YOUR choice to get a lumia 900 knowing there would be a new version with SO MANY changes. it would have been nice if 7.5 got 8. but it wont happen deal with it because YOU KNEW ABOUT IT, and you STILL BOUGHT IT. if you wanted a wp8, buying a 7.5 well... then its your own fault. also the phone will not stop working, do you buy it and you like it? then, thats good because nothing will change (7.8 a little) how it works now.
* Oh you edited out the "im leaving" flounce LOL good for you. Seriosuly, everyone knew an update was imminent.
(Unless you lived under a rock)
I didn't get a Lumia 800 or 900 - even though I wanted one - as I wanted to wait for the WP8 announcement, well now they made it.
The Lumia 800 and 900 will be a great phone with 7.8 on it for a long time.
(So you will get paired down v8, it will be called 7.8 you numpty :) )
Still better than any pikey Android device in my opinion, or Blackberry. So why hate?
Just wait for another few months a get a shiney WP8 phones in all its beauty.
This is was technology ownership is like, we upgrade in cycles. Sometimes hardware makes us miss an upgrade. Better get used to it, every platform PC, Console, Phones, iPads, Tablets all have this link of hardware to software issue.
So much childish hate, for a phone :) It will still make phone calls, still browse the web and thats still what most people "need" to do. Having the latest "version" is just fashion. Anyway good luck on your next platform.
Now you know, and knowing is half the battle.
People have the right to complain. If Microsoft had been honest with their users and said from the start "this is what you get and you will NOT get WP8" then you would be right. But they did not. They knew and didn't say anything, because they knew that nobody would buy the phones. So basically, they lied to us.
No one lied, Microsoft did not announce anything until last month.
They have made a new OS for a new target platform, simple.
WP 7 device will get 7.8.
So whats the problem? Its much cleaner/ clearer than Apple or Android or Blackberry.
Blackberry orphan hardware all the time.
Android, you're left to your carrier or manufcaturer (I Will not get another Android phone for this reason alone, let along privacy issues, and the whole ugliness of Android)
Apple _never_ tell anyone their intention until announcement day. ITs a consumer focused company. Microsoft are streets out ahead in terms of its postion on both new and current devices.
I've been much better served by Microsoft than any other platform.
Same for Windows Phone 7 and 8. When WP8 drops, there are still going to be a huge amount of 7.x users for some time before WP8 surpasses it, hopefully not too long though. The point is, most developers will continue to target their apps for 7.x and they will run fine for WP8 users.
Who now can guarantee that next phones will receive significant updates? No one.
Using "computers" and "future proof" in the same sentence doesn't make sense. These days, smart phones ARE consumer electronics, and will likely have a refresh cycle of 18 months (funny, the same amount of time MS says they'll support WP8).
Frankly, with 7.8 coming this "Fall" that's going to be 2 years since WP7 devices first hit the market (Nov 2010).
What's making this all such a "big deal" is the timing of WP8 relative to very large marketing push of the Lumia 900 back in April. But WP7 will have been supported by MS for 2+ years when all is said and done.
And it's simply not true that "Everyone who bought WP7 in this year expected them to be upgraded to WP8" - there was so much press and forum debate about this that you'd have to have bought your lumia 900 with your eyes closed and ears plugged to not be aware.
And "currently WP7 is useless OS in the whole mobile world" - well ,that just makes you sound like a troll.
Just like most Android apps are written for compatibility with 2.2, until WP8 gains more share than WP7, devs would be foolish to code exclusively for it. Unless of course they're using native code or new hardware specific features.
In fact the WP7-to-Wp8 coding transition will be much easier to cope with as Android apps not only have to deal with OD compatibility issues, but hardware as well. Netflix and Instagram are perfect examples.
So, and please correct my if you think I'm wrong, you think people who want to sell apps for money will immediately develop for zero users over 10 million? And after that feel that the equation : #ofWP8 devices + 10 million < #ofWP8 devices alone?
Please do not EVER apply for a job in marketing or finance.
If you can be the first to the W8/WP8 market with an app, the potential payoff is massively higher than continuing to code for WP7.X. Allocating your assets (time) is a zero-sum game, so you have two options. You can code for a dead ecosystem with 10 million users, or you can be first to market in a market that has the chance to grow to 100 million+ very quickly. It seems like a pretty easy choice, doesn't it? Any expenditure of assests is a gamble, but this one seems quite good, doesn't it? If you have spare time, you might continue to code for WP7.X, but it seems like a pretty simple cost/benefit analysis to conclude that the payoff of working on W8/WP8 is much higher potentially than continuing to code for a dead, dwindling ecosystem, while the risks are about the same.
PM me and I'll send you my real-life details, and let's make a bet. I bet that fewer than 5,000 new applications are released after W8/WP8 is released. How many do you wanna bet are released?
Read here & here for details on how to port.
Here's the real kicker. If you code for WP7 your app just runs on WP8 & extra work is required for W8.
If you code for WP8 you loose 10 million users and still have to re-work your app for W8.
Again, unless you're developing a native code game or using new hardware features, devs would be extreemly short sighted to coe for WP8 only.
If you're not coding in C++ (which most devs aren't) the XAML + C#(or VB method will be very similar whether you're targeting WP7/W8 or WP8/W8.
And I'll take your bet because if needed I can easily whip up 5000+ spam apps in under a year
There MrBurrrns - helped you properly locate your comment.
I bought a Lumia 2 months ago. Still happy with it.
Oh, and BTW, if you care about getting updates quicker, get the shortest contract you can.
I knew WP8 was coming, didn't "upgrade" when my current contract ran out.
I bought a Lumia 710 for 120 UK pounds, and using that until WP8 devices come out. Either do your research, or wait. Simple choice. No one fault but your own, certainly not Microsofts as you keep insinuating.
Are you really this thick in the head Burns?
Oh, and please explain how running a new kernel on old hardware doesn't fit in to his "personal agenda". Does he have a bias just against phones? Because I seem to be running his flagship product on a Pentimum D 1.8gHz machine just fine.
Anybody upset that their phone wasn't 100% future proof is demanding the impossible. Its not like there won't be a market to sell WP7 phones and recover some cost to upgrade to WP8 if that's what's important to you.
It is amazing, fast and fluid.
When wp8 will come in october, I will pass my 900 to some friend of mine and will buy one. Where's the problem ?
The issue with DirectX is of course true but I doubt devs would just switch from XNA do DirectX. XNA devs don't want to develop in native code because it is so different. For example ARMED! (best mobile game ever!) devs went for MonoGame (implementation of XNA APIs that also runs on iOS) instead of DirectX for their Windows 8 port. I guess MS will just trade one pack of game devs for another.
This is of course with the exception of native code games and NFC apps and a few other scenarios, but if MS brings a few of the new features (the new TellMe API for one), I can see no reason to code for WP8 exclusively out of the box.
Also, there a lot of apps for older Andriod phones that let you know "your phone is not compatible". Just like WP you can code for Froyo and run on Jellybean, but the other way around is a lot tougher. And with 2.3.3 still holding over 60% of the userbase, that's what most devs are doing.
So in essence it's very much like Android.
Also, there are A LOT of new apps that you can't download on 2.3, 2 big ones being Chrome & native Firefox.
Also the term EOL has nothing to do with development.
That said I'm still on the fence about MS's upgrade path (or lack thereof). On the one hand, I would bet dollars-to-doughnuts WP8 could run on single-core ARM processors and feel MS didn't want to invest the time to optimize the OS for so few devices. On the other, WP's strongest point is the sense of speed & fluidity you get when using it. If that would be compromised with the new OS I can why they passed us over. WP8 is already Android-like enough with it's hideous new start screen to have it start lagging now. Add to that the risk of non computer-savvy users "bricking" their devices with a complete re-flash and I can see why they skipped WP 7.x devices.
Here's to hoping 7.8 adds more than just the start screen (read XBox music, new speech APIs, nokia turn-by-turn, etc) as Devs will code apps for 7.x until WP8 hits critical mass.
- check your PM infraction for Insulting
For first-gen adopters in the U.S. like myself, this barely raises an eyebrow. My 2-year contract will expire not long after WP8 is rolled out. From a purely selfish perspective, there's nothing at all to be concerned about.
Of course Microsoft said nothing about WP8 not being able to run on WP7 devices. Is there a single person alive who seriously believes announcing this fact two years ago would not have hurt WP?
OTOH, I do think this article needs to be updated on iOS's nailing of it. Not entirely true, based on the experiences of iCoworkers.
Lots of interesting comments, but lets face it MOST of the people on this forum are enthusiasts and will no doubt be wanting all the latest updates that a platform or vendor can offer.
However, I would suggest that the majority of WP7 users are NOT enthusiasts or on these forums and probably don’t know / care about what’s coming out in 6 months or so. It doesn’t detract from the fact these are pretty decent devices and very under-rated in the industry.
I do accept, however, that as the date approaches there should be some transparency from MS communicated to its potential customers about something new. But lets face it, it’s a business and they have to operate profitably and respectful of its (loyal) customer-base but look forward to increasing that with better products to increase market-share.
I bought a Titan end of last year – locked into it now for 18m. Am I upset I cant upgrade to WP8 – hell yeah. Who knows whats going to be on WP7.8??? Being an enthusiast I will probably sell it and get a Zenith or something.
But, I am really happy there is a decent leap forward in hardware / functions rather than a gradual trickle!
There is ALWAYS something new coming out. ALWAYS! What should MS do re Win 8? Current Win 7 hardware doesn’t support NFC and most PC’s don’t have touchscreens so I cant use that function.
Even when VW launch a new Golf – there is the next version on the drawing board.
xBox 720… PSP.. list goes on.
And with the new core, this clearly enables MS to forge forward with business and home apps and synchronisation.
There are now likely to be several versions of Win 8 / WP8 – I do think that instead of a WP7.8 there should be a WP8 ‘lite’ version that simply doesn’t expose the functionality of the new hardware if its not present. Maybe the issue there would have been app compatibility though.
Except MS is providing updates...
that’s all I care about. and is much more then any other Company can say.
and if you think other companies don’t hide Dirty secrets like MS then your kidding your self’s.
When you purchase any electronic device, you're taking a gamble that it may or may not be updated in the future. That's why if there's something you can't live with about a device unless it gets updated, you shouldn't buy it.
I'm new to the WP7 scene as I just bought last week a HTC Trophy off contract from ebay. I had a Droid X which served me well, but was borked by the OTA GB release that was pushed to it a year ago. If the Trophy gets no further update that what it already has, I'm fine with that and knew going in that this may be it since it is a much older device. Technology and software changes at lightning pace and it's not fair (for a lack of better term) to expect an older EOL device to consistently be updated fore more than a couple of years.
Oh, and my original iPad runs like crap since all the iOs revisions have been updated. It's slow (not my internet which is cable 20mbps) and not nearly as smooth as it once was.
I can purchase a Nokia Lumia 900 right now, and it will not be upgraded to the newest milestone Windows Phone software that releases later this year.
I could purchase an iPhone 4S at the same AT&T store, with a GUARANTEE that it will run the next milestone iOS 6, and likely iOS 7.
This certainly bothers me.
It seems Microsoft is using the same approach it did with the red-ringed Xbox 360: Release a half-baked product to get on store shelves, and worry about it later when sh*t hits the fan.
But I understand your complaint.
you need a flip phone sir. Technology is not for you.
Your post is spot on.
Does no one remember how long WP7 was in development? When it launched, for better or worse, it was already behind the curve. And while it's been a great OS so far, it did lack some of the features that Google and Apple had already implemented or were in the process of implimenting. Fortunately, the updates haven't slowed it down in the least and the apps have been slowly building on the marketplace.
So while you're all butthurt because Microsoft didn't invite you to their planning meeting for WP8, maybe you should realize that planning a mobile OS is a monumental effort that requires a lot of time and coordination to bring to market. And realize that even if you just bought your new Lumia 900, you're still using a fantastic phone.
Damn, I hate the entitled bitches.
But if you buy a decent computer, dont you expect it to run new OS updates and software for a couple of years?
If you bought the Xbox 360 when it was new, didnt you expect it to get updates and games for a couple of years?
I guess the people who say that the Lumia 900 and Titan is as good as when we bought them and that we should be happy with that, they run an outdated an insecure Win PC and just uses Paint and Notes? And just play NHL 2K6 on their 360?
My 360 costed 450 USD and has been supported for 7 years.
My HTC Titan costed 900 USD and will be supported for not even 1 year.
The WP smartphones are small computer/entertainment devices, so there why am I an idiot who expect it to be supported for a couple of years?
Phone always get major OS revs. Comparing a Console to a Phone it like company my Bike to my Car - plainly stupid.
Consoles always last years, phones rarely do.
Such over inflated expectation is insane. People have an agenda, Mr Burns is to troll this thread.
WP8 was a big question mark back then, so I couldn't consider a $500-600 phone, even subsidized, when a $235 unit with the same specs (less a bit of storage) did just fine for now until the dust settled. 1700/2100 support for Wind Mobile just happened to help the decision for me to take the 710 to Wind over Rogers.
I figure if I'm going to get a subsidy for my phone, it had better be a good one (multi-core, higher res screen) that can compare to the Galaxy or One series, even though at this point the WP environment doesn't need it, WP8 certainly will start to. I'm looking forward to the 2nd gen of Nokia phones later this year, knowing I can sell my 710 at much less of a loss than a $500 or $600 Lumia 800/900 or Titan.
"The Beta-test is Over!".. hah.. didn't realize until recently how true that statement was. It seems that WP7 was one big Beta test for WP8. Unfortunately some people invested into the current system more than others.
When Windows Phone 7.5 and even Windows Phone 7 have been released, the phones with this OS could only have single core CPUs and a not so high screen resolution and were competing with Android phones with Dual Core and 720p resolution and iPhones, also with Dual Core and even higher resolution. It was obvious that, at some point, there would need to be created Windows Phones with more powerfull hardware.
At least, Microsoft didn't acted like Apple fooling people, saying iOS5 and iOS6 is exactly the same in iPhone 4S or iPhone 5 and iPhone 3GS. It is not, and Windows Phone 8 would also not be the same in first or second generation Windows Phones and Third Generation.
It was obvious that, at some point, first and second generation Windows Phones would not be able to be updated because releasing Windows Phone 8 to first gen Windows Phones and even second gen would only slow down the Windows Phone Ecossistem.
I knew that and, even so, I bought a Lumia 800 less than two months ago. At the time, I already knew I would need to buy a new phone in one year or less. I just got a Lumia because Windows Phone is best OS ever. It is a OS that changed the XBox and even the Windows and the Microsoft Office, and I'm proud of having one in the top of my desk while I write this. I'm proud of being one of the people who told Nokia they are going in the right way with Microsoft and Windows Phone instead of Android...
I know it is a pain for people who got a new Lumia 90 or 800, or a Titan or Titan II, or a Focus S or a Focus LTE and I agree we should get more stuff from Windows Phone 8 than the Start Screen, like XBox Music and the new Game Hub. But Windows Phone 7.8 is more than any Andoid user will ever get and it doesn't feel like if Microsoft was trying to fool us like Apple, so: I could not have more proud of my almost outdated Nokia Lumia 800!
Lumia owner since November
(Well, Heart of the Swarm, maybe not 3)
But point being, large companies making software will always be starting the next project long before the current one even ships.
Amazes me this is even news. A very provacative news post that didn't need to be "out there".
Its not a surprise, its no unsual, and it only fans the andy Lumia owner people (who are angry as they didn't read before they put their dollars down, and will still get updates anyway)
Oh well :)
Shock horror windows 8 team was working on it b4 windows 7 was released. And vista/win 7 and etc.
Its just a phone. They are amazing. I don't want my trophy slowed down on newer stuff
my iPhone 3g is rubbish after IOS upgrades slowed it down.
Its better go us.
The problem here isn't so much that the update won't come to a gen1 device, it's that it won't come to a phone that was just released three months ago.
And it's more of a perception problem. I don't know how many of the lumia 900 owners would care about the update. Android users don't really care, iphone users want the latest OS as soon as it's released.
This is the bit most people are confused about.
I bought a Macbook from Apple the day before a new one came out.
I bought an iPhone 3G, that months later was superceded by the 3GS (and iOS 4 ran cr4p on the 3G)
Technology moves on. Gets update, better get used to that people!
you want to just talk about mobile? sure, ios is the only one, but this was the big issue with Android and when Microsoft came out with WP7 they were talking big about the updates. You can claim it as a differentiator and do the same crap.
If you want to know when Microsoft knew about it, it was probably a little before their partners. If you were wondering why Verizon didn't want to release a wp7.5 device when the LTE Nokia phone was available to them, now you know. There's a reason they kept saying they'll get more phones when WP8 comes out, they didn't want angry customers (something AT&T never cared about)
The essence and spirit of the phone is still the real thing.
The only people with a beef are Lumia owners. They should have read up, plain and simple.
They will STILL get 7.8 and updates, and their phone will run perfectly until their next upgrade.
Pointless post on WP Central. Should take it down IMHO :)
In some ways it just sounds like irty marketing. They were pushing WP7 out like Used Car Salesmen. Selling a system with an already out of date OS that is just barely going past it's typical 2-4 year usable life cycle.
Will I move up to a WP8 device? Most likely. Maybe.
I just hope they figure it out before they go belly up in this market and leave us with nothing more than Apple, Google and eventually Mozilla, I guess.
Seriously dude, get a grip.
MS used what they had for WP7, and had a longer term strategy to use the W8 kernel on PHONE, TABLET and PC
One OS across all platforms. One set of development targets.
Apps can be targetted for both 7 and 8. 8 can now also port native C code from other OSes.
No one "actually" cares about this, unless your a recent owner who is miffed you won't get an upgrade. Well, you WILL to 7.8. (And who knows if more will come out)
End of the year, well spec'd hardware to match Android and iPhone will be out. With a brilliant OS.
Its a great time to be a WP owner.
That's what this is about pure and simple. When MS dumped its entire base of loyal Windows Mobile users in 2010 it claimed WP7 was absolutely necessary because of new hardware requirements, but fret not, not only would WM 6.x be kept alive and supported as a parallel platform for enterprise use, and lower end phones in poor countries (as "Windows Phone Classic") but that the new model for WP7 would be the Apple model, where all handsets, within reason, would be upgraded by MS, not the carriers, to the most current OS available. Regardless, thousands of WinMo users still fled to Apple or Android. That's a lot of customers switching over.
Now, near 1.5 years on, its the same old story. MS lied, handsets died. Again the same story of disposable handsets, a dumped platform getting a one-off token update and then being wound down, and, soon the apps will be all written for 8 and will not work on 7. It will take time but will happen. Probably within the two years this bunch of Lumia 900 people have on their new contracts.
At least as a WM 6.5 user, I got a free Lumia 900 during the WP challenge promotion with no contract. Hopefully MS will do the same deal to entice new users once the WP8 models come out.
This is all about marketing. People don't care about justifications why this is happening they just, rightly or wrongly, feel burned. And consumers who feel slighted tend to go away and not come back. And they tell their friends the same. And those people tend to go out an buy an iPhone, where, at least they can have faith in the manufacturer fully supporting their phones for a longer period than 18 months....
MS would be very wise to give rebates to existing WP7 users wanting to upgrade to WP8. Even if they lose money, it buys them back some very important consumer good will that will last longer than 18 months.
Oh please. I got no gaurantee with my iPhone 3G when the 3GS and iOS 4 came out.
My phone ran like a dog, I had missing features. Battery lasted half as long. I sold my iPhone.
Citing the iPhone as the gold standard is hilarious. Think (or at least Bing) before you post, theres a good boy.