If there was any question today about what Microsoft thinks about the Nokia X and its Android phone, their public line is that they’re fine with it. During Nokia Developer Day, John Shewchuk, a Microsoft technical fellow responsible for “strategy for cloud platform services”, took to the stage to demonstrate Microsoft services running on the Nokia X, noting that they’re a ‘devices and services company’ first and don’t consider Nokia’s choice to be against their interests.
Before the session even officially kicked off, Shewchuk chose to address the elephant in the room by talking about Nokia X and Microsoft. Their stance, at least overtly, was that they knew about Nokia’s Android work going into the deal (to acquire Nokia’s hardware division) and that there were “no surprises” here this week. Instead, Microsoft’s focus on services, specifically OneDrive, Outlook.com and Skype, were considered to be just as important business for Microsoft as Windows Phone.
The session then focused on the benefits of developing services on Nokia X and Lumia phones, with Microsoft’s services being front and center. Nokia then later returned to the stage to discuss their imaging SDKs and development work.
We spoke with Shewchuk briefly after the session regarding his statement. He was forthright in stating that Windows Phone, as a developer platform, is still superior for many companies out there whom are making apps. The idea here is yes, Android is popular, but Windows Phone has momentum now and things like the web developer tools offer a great alternative.
Microsoft clearly has two business here to consider. More, actually. It’s not about just Windows Phone, but about Skype, OneDrive, Bing and even Azure. While to Windows Phone users, prioritizing that OS seems very obvious, Microsoft is taking a different approach. At least in this regard, publicly, they are on board with Nokia X and do it see it as an opportunity to grow Microsoft’s services in emerging markets.
Will Nokia X remain after the sale? We’re leaning towards yes, that this is a long term strategy by Microsoft. We’ll just have to wait and see. But for now, Nokia and Microsoft are acting like everything is business as usual.
Reader comments
Microsoft: ‘no surprises’ regarding Nokia X, knew about Android work, okay with it
i want to request nokia to creat a new phone for new generation we want 1Gb ram or 1.5Gb ram,camera Hd recording 8mp, Quard core 1.5Ghz pro.
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i want to request nokia to creat a new phone for new generation we want 1Gb ram or 1.5Gb ram,camera Hd recording 8mp, Quard core 1.5Ghz processer
That's all
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I don't think it'll work but it's a fleet of faith
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It's all good.
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Of course they're "fine" with it. But what's that saying about the word "fine"?
Listen, this is really quite easy. Nokia had a Skunkworks kind of team working on an Android replacement for their Asha line. It was mostly (supposed to be) centered around not having to pay a license per device setup like they do (did) with Windows Phone. Of course the Lumia 5xx comes along, but prior to that they were still working on their Android phone (by all accounts). So they rush the X out to the market because Microsoft CAN'T tell them not to (at least not with violating antitrust regulations). But what they CAN do is influence the device itself, i.e. tell them to use Nokia and Microsoft services.
Either way, I'm sure Microsoft isn't happy about it. And with Windows Phone having lowered requirements (software and hardware) upcoming...along with non-existent Windows Phone license restraints after the Nokia deal is done...the X line has absolutely zero place at Microsoft.
It'll be gone within a year. It'll only stick around for support reasons, then I fully sense we'll see an entire lineup of Microsoft Lumia phones across the board: 2xx, 3xx, 5xx, 6xx, 7xx, 8xx, 9xx, 1xxx lineups.
If Nokia already has the 520 which sells in the range of $75 to $99, what is the value of these Nokia X phones, which sells in the same price range?? Especially since it will also be possible to download Google apps also. Microsoft should stay loyal to the Lumia brand and push cheaper phones that rival the Asha price range. It's not a question of services alone, but of also selling an ecosystem. That's where the bigger profits are. Asha phones already have Skype and Office apps and Nokia sells approximately 200 million feature phones a year inemerging markets. Why not try to make Asha/feature phones compatible with WP apps which would be a speedier, quick solution that retains or grows market share and increases the use of Microsoft services instantaniously. A missed chance to exploit the excisting userbase of Nokia feature phones (Asha etc).
Good! Bring much better high end devices for Nokia X series then. Maybe a 41MP PureView on Nokia XXL? Let the fun begin!
I'm confused! Is the X line of device supposed to replace the asha OS? If so, why would a skinned version of android go on the 230 and others like it? So Nokia is going to have 2 low-end OS'es? Asha & Android??
Android sells better! And as Microsoft plan is to become a better Google with the enterprise/part of the Corporate Market at their feet, thid move is logical! They will sell more phones with an OS that is heavily consisted of their Technology (look at android patent fees), attract people to Windows Phone by the UI, profiting and gradually extendind wp marketshare. Its a smart long term move.
What's next, a fork of Linux with a Microsoft name?
MSLINUX maybe?
Sure is MS fine with it. Never forget that MS gets a few bucks of license royalties for each Android phone sold.
From whom in this case?
WP is absolutely the best phone OS, far above the rest on the world market. With version 8.1 will be practically unattainable. Destroy something like that, it would be a real crime.
Not a completed windows phone OS and started new kind of nonsense
No one said that it is a Windows Phone, please. And is not nonsense but a good move by Nokia. Don't ever put all the eggs in one basket.
CAN SOMEONE PLEASE CLARIFY IF WP OS CAN OR CANNOT RUN ON LOW END PHONES LIKE THIS.
It can. And WP 8.1 should be able to be installed on this device. Perhaps that ability is the planned apeal of this device. The first phone that can use either OS. It would be nice to hear that announcement at Build in April.
No shit Sherlock!
Not to be an ass about it, but the cat is out of the bag already.
What's Microsoft going to say?
No, we're totally against it, in fact it's one of the reasons why we bought Nokia in the first place?
Don't buy it, we don't want any profits from it!
Don't develop for it, we don't want people using forked Android with our apps!
Thank you Nokia, we love that you took a shit on WP and it's apparent incapability of producing an OS that works on lower end devices!
Duh
Can someone tell me why X owners get 10GB of One drive but Windows phone 8 owners get 7GB? Why the hell is this right?
There you go. That's exactly my point about MS putting more importance into X than WP.
Screw it. After being with WM and WP for years, im going Android on my next upgrade, since MS obviously puts more importance there. I'll go where there's more support.
How did Microsoft put more importance into X phones if it's Nokia releasing these devices?
You obviously have not been following why MS supports Nokia's decision to release the X.
Gosh, there are a lot of typos in this article! Any jobs going as publications reviewer over at WPC?
Hopefully they make an even lower priced 320 or 420 phone...
Uphill climb and I guess that is where Microsoft has chosen to go this route, the people who can't be persuaded. Get them on a "device" with their services and hope for them to convert eventually. Its not full proof but in the end its a win win as long as they increase users of their services. Microsoft is a big company and the bottom line is revenue especially through their software.
There's no denying apps are important but androids low budget devices are the main reason for there dominant market share. Most people(not tech savvy) still just choose a functional cellphone at an affordable price unless its been subsidized by a carrier. I've been trying to persuade customers to WP for awhile and its a tough sell for grandma, teenagers, kids getting their first smartphone, etc when there's at least 4 androids sitting next to it at half the price. They may not hold a candle to the WP equivalents but people don't know that. I've converted a good amount of people by showing the functionality and ease of use but I'm one of very few, I find myself at odds with most coworkers(in front of customers no less) about what their preference's should be lol. Starting to really feel like everyone is brainwashed or just groomed into android(mindshare/marketing).
I'm in america and can't tell you when the last time I saw a windows phone commercial....I guess it was verizon's 928 camera commerical, it was an in dangered species back then too.
Funny how no one cared for the phone but loved the wedding commercial. People rave about their Androids hardware and usually have no clue what the phone is actually capable of. Might as well be a really big feature phone to most consumers.
1) By the time WP8.1 comes to allow cheap hardware, you will be probably looking at time frame nearing the last quarter, Nokia X next week.
2) Nokia X is to combat a segment that the 520 cannot compete in, a segment that prefer to be able to side load apps that a WP can never do, a segment that filled with local cheap android phone probably even unbranded one without Google services.
3) Nokia is banging on their familiar brand name among the feature phone, which seems more attractive than the Microsoft name painted doom and gloom by the bias.
4) This opens up a can of whopass for Google. Microsoft is showing all the OEMs that you do not need to be a slave for Google if you want to go Android. You can have your own stores (Nokia store) your own service if you have any (Here Map) and then Microsoft services. Better still, forgo Android and load WP on your hardware.
How can Android apps be installed with no Google Play?
Sigh...
If anything cannot be more obvious its that this android interface has something resembling tiles and that present and future low priced lumias like the 525,630,725 will have better specs.this is like telling the customers of the x and xl that...look youve done good buying the android but theres a better superior device with the same services on windows phone.come get it.
But they won't because they're too expensive. That's why the X and XL exist right? Even the similarly priced 520 is still too high. Those developing countries are so dumb, they won't know that the 520 is better at the same price.
basically: guys expect the apps on iOS to remain better. we don't care about you.
Every Nokia X sold is one less Android device using Google services and one more using Microsoft services. So long as it draws more Android users than it cannibalizes the Lumia 520/525, this will be a net gain for Microsoft. And this is likely to be the case, given the far bigger Android user base. Not to mention the free induction into live tiles, and Microsoft/Nokia services to hook them on for their future upgrade path.
ofcouse they are okay with it they can't do anything about it the bigger goal is the acquistion
Skype important? Talk about Skype and windows phone then....
Maybe there is another twist to this,
Maybe, just maybe.... MS/Nokia will offer an os upgrade/change from Android to WP8.1 if they want more advanced features on their Nokia X devices since WP8.1 can run on most Android devices right now.
Why not just make low cost WP devices running on android hardware then?
Maybe the Nokia X serie will keep running on Android until MS can offer an similarly priced WP alternative.
I would have stripped WP8 (or 7) to the bone into some sort of smart/feature in-between.
Just make a phone like moto g with WP and make it cheaper and advertise ,no need to spend on R&D on X series..
Just a quickie, There was a rumor recently that HTC was working on a 'dual-boot' phone, both WP and Android compatible, selectable while booting (or before or maybe during a restart).
Any thoughts about this one?
Will we be able to download from other store's with the Lumia models or is it only for the x models?
Go ask Nokia, Rubino and co. The only thing we know is you can't download from the Google Play Store neither from the Windows Phone store.
This is neither Google Android neither Windows Phone. it's Frankenstein.
Are you just here to troll, it certainly looks like it from the rest of your posts. Year of Linux, ROFLOL!!!
Dumbest idea ever. MS services on WP like Skype already lag behind in updates compared to its iOS and Android counterparts. Probably gets worse now with this new strategy. WP is slowly being killed off by its own creator.
neglected to death. what a shame. but true. WP is basically dead. They may as well just fork android. but even so, MSFT is so slow at developing that even starting with android 4.4, they'd lag behind after 2 years.
I really don't think you understand how long it takes to develop something significant. Android didn't have to come up with anything new, just follow the iPhone playbook, yet it took several years to catch up in features. WP is actually marching along more quickly than Android did. Furthermore, WP is evolving in a different environment.
I've got a L520. It works fine for me. Over 200,000 apps. Even if it took 5 minutes to try each one out, I'd take 694 days to check them all out. How many apps do you need?
WP users have to start championing great apps in the WP ecosystem that can't be got in iOS or Android; we need to generate some WP envy instead of looking over the fence and wringing our hands over what we don't have.
No matter how much WP evolved, it will only be on par with Android if that's even possible. Look at how WP8.1 trying to squeeze a notificaiton center into the OS? I thought live tiles is what MS so proud of, and yet, it is going to have a notification center due to high demands? Connectivity toggle switches? All the upcoming features are what Android already having. TBH, even Apple copies Android pull down notification center.
As for apps, is not about how much one can use, but about how much choices are there for one to use. Look at how pathetic Windows Phone stores is. And not to mentioned that there are lots of free apps (with ads of course) on Google Play, while lots of similar ones on Windows Phone require purchasing.
In fact, I'm very happy that Nokia is coming out with the X series. Finally I get to enjoy a very sturdy built phone from Nokia, as well as excellent apps compatible with Android. At least, I will be having a much better Facebook app than the crap made by MS for windows phone.
Some would argue that Android's really only last benefit is the integration with Google's services. I think Windows Phone has reached parity for 95% of users with Windows Phone 8.
Personally I think Android apps are still lacking in quality. And it may always be the case.
Lot of boo hooing going on. Lol
WP is getting iPhone users because ios is boring and hasn't changed much since inception. Android is cheap knock off. Apps are excuses and almost mute point. WP is going in the right direction...live tiles,etc.
WP is absolutely the best phone OS, far above the rest on the world market. With version 8.1 will be practically unattainable. Destroy something like that, it would be a real crime.
Nokia X? I've got just two words for that. "Kin..." oh dang I got cancelled before I could finish.
Of course MS suports the Nokia X. They are offering 1 month free skype min to landlines/mobiles. That does not happen unless they supported the device.
MS services are in the play store, but Googles services are front and center pre loaded on devices, which discourages searching for MS alternatives. Why do you think Google started preloading their office alternative in Kit Kat? They wanted to encourage increased usage! This will be the exact same effect with MS services on the Nokia X.
You people need to remember. Skype has 500M+ users, Outlook has 400M+ users, Onedrive has 250M+ users, Bing has 18% search marketshare... growing these services by any means neccessary is as important to MS as Windows Phone if not more!
Asha line currently retails 60-90
The 520 unlocked retails for 140-170 in all markets including the US!!!!
The 525 unlocked retails for 170-200
If presented a choice a large % of feature phone users would step to an equal or slightly more expensive Nokia branded smartphone reguardless of OS. The X will be $100 shortly 1 Qtr or so after launch. MS is loosening the hardware requirements in WP8.1 for cheaper devices, but those devices wont show up until Q3 at best. Nokia needed cheaper smartphones RIGHT NOW to fill the <140 price points that WP currently cant reach. They are currently handing that segment over to Samsung, Coolpad, Xolo, Karbon, Micromax, ZTE & Huawei in emerging markets unchecked by Nokia, even though they have huge brand preference in their favor from their feature phone buisness.
Yeah... no. There is this little site called Amazon.com, maybe check it out before you post next time.
The unlocked Lumia 520 starts at $106. The unlocked X will start at EUR 89, that`s $120.
The Nokia X makes absolutley no sense at all.
Actually it makes perfect sense as it's for emerging markets not established markets. You're only thinking in Dollars and Euros, start thinking in terms of Indian Rupees for example and look at the difference in price!!!
You want Rupees? Fine.
Nokia X EUR 89 = 7570 Rs
Lumia 520 = 7400 Rs
In the UK the 520 retails for £79.99, so not ALL markets. I agree with the rest of your post though.
News Media and Web Headlines should read, "Microsoft Is Willing To Do Anything To Please Its Customers", but I'm not seeing thay anywhere....Could this be a media stunt gone bad???
This is not the droid I'm looking for...
Anyone else every feel like they gave the keys to complete idiots, while we are just all watching them drive the whole thing off a cliff?
Exactly.
Lunatics are definitely running this asylum.
Yep
Well It is time i start spending time on imore :)
Introducing Nokia X in the developing world is the only first solution to neutralize the Single Mobile Platforms (Android) lead (Single OEM's or any BIG fish's lead) iPhone can never help doing this job, as well X might play a role of introducing MS's services to legendary Android users (Here MS has to play Trogon horse on Android platform with full of MS and Nokia's goodies). What MS and Nokia together should do is to make all necessary apps available so that X users don't switchback to Google's services. To achieve this, MS and Nokia should have "agility" in their though process and delivering the stuff. Can MS and Nokia have guts to do it, then keep X.
Do that, and then Windows Phone is redundant: i.e. surplus to requirements. All this means is that independent developers are betrayed once again. If I was a developer, I would just keep on developing for Android and iOS. The risk of wasting your time on learning the WP platform for very little incremental gain is too high.
Dan... them typos bro.
Nothing about this is good for WP, I don't care how WPC paints it.
Agreed: http://techcrunch.com/2014/02/24/nandroid/?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000591
I don't really like techcrunch's coverage of anything MS related but in this instance they seem way more clear sighted on this all business.
I for one prefer this quote from Paul Thurrott "So, aside from the bizarre nature of watching a company that is about to be subsumed by Microsoft extend a giant middle finger towards Redmond" http://winsupersite.com/windows-phone/nokia-provides-few-crumbs-windows-windows-phone-users
This point seems to be lost on Nokia, there is no upgrade path to WP from Nokia x.
Don't you think there are too many Lumias and alot cheap ones, so why make another cheaper version of Lumia 500's? Personally I don't think its bad idea Nokia being on Android, I know alot ppl were waiting for Nokia -Android device. This (forked) might not be what's they were looking for, but at least they get durable Nokia and Nokia get some money from it. I don't like Android -call it garbage- but if Nokia didn't focus only on WP and had some competition with Samsung, HTC on android as well they would have been in better financial position. MS paid 7B for whole* Nokia, FB paid 16B (or 19) for just ONE application (whatsapp)
Right... I guess your definition of a flop is to be the fastest growing mobile OS in the world....
iPhone with huge screen can't come soon enough....nothing beside Achievements on Xbox games is stoping me from jumping ship besides the stupid price Apple will ask for their phone and converting these Zune era WMAs to AAC.
Ohhh...that Lumia 1520 is looking amazing everyday as a collector item...I'll try to buy two or something.
I already see they will destroy the Nokia Devices division as much as they did with Zune, Kin, Danger et all.
Are you an idiot or just trolling? No one is stupid enough to believe anything of what you just said.
This is the same guy who believes this is the year of Linux so that kinda shows his mentality!!
Lol, love the anger, the rage, the emotions...over a phone. I do this a job and don't have that much emotional attachment in this debate.
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It is not simply the phone itself, it is the strategy behind the device, it is not a sound one. Why would you risk cannibalizing the potential market share of your bread and butter device, with no gaurantee of the result that you desire? What are the chances of this paying off? What is the time frame that we are looking at? How do you know that people would not simply desire a true Android experience after using this device?
There are alot of variables to consider, and people are just pointing those out.
It's not about being "Emotionally attached". That is a bit arrogant, Daniel. My phone is not an extension of my life considering I am not one to keep a phone for too long. However, it is about my opinion of a company who obviously does not have full confidence in their own OS that they would even go use a forked version of their compteitor... a competitor they have been bashing for years now.
If this is indicative of Androdi Apps coming to windows Phone(high end) like rumors have stated recently, it's not about being "EMOTIONALLY ATTACHED", i will happily drop Windows phone because I and most of the people here on this site aka your readers/visitors are here for windows phone and if i wanted Android apps, I would have an android phone. Most of us here realize this could be good for MICROSOFT SERVICES which is mostly what you guys at Wpcentral keep preaching with your 10+ Articles on this device but we are also concenred what this means for US as windows phone users and the future.
When you say android apps, do you mean Google Services or the actual apps running on android? Google Services fair play, but android apps you have to be insane to say that WP doesn't need android apps. But that leads to the debate on what you mean by android apps. Do you mean apps that run on Android or apps that are ported over from Android? If its the latter, why the hell are you opposed to it? One of the major complaints of WP is the lack of apps. The more apps there is to bridge the gap between Android and Windows, the easier the transition to WP is going to be. WP8.1 addresses the vast majority of the functionality concerns of WP, but the app space is still going to be slim. I understand that apps shouldnt speak to how good a platform is, BUT to most people out there, more specifically on the US market, the number of apps is where it is at. Most people wouldn't even consider switching to WP because the app space is abysmal. So if this is leading to Android apps being ported over, that would probably lead to an increase in WP users, whether it is small or large number but an increase nonetheless, as now there is more incentives to try out Windows Phone as the apps they used on Android would be present in WP meaning that all they're getting is a new experience and a new ecosystem without missing any of the apps.
Also, if you think about it, the move in WP to not require face buttons is a further push in this direction, yes it allows Android hardware to easily run WP but it also easily allows Android software (or apps, not specifically OS) to run under Windows.
I'm all for it, I have no issues with running Android versions on Windows Phone, a) it means we will no longer be playing third fiddle, and b) it's so much better for developers, why FORCE them to have to make three versions of an app, and c) it will have absolutely NO baring on how the programs run on your phone, they will just be normal apps doing their normal thing, it's not suddenly going to introduce the phone to malware, or make it "ultra super mega laggy" or suddenly morph your amazing Lumia 1020 into a Galaxy S4. It's just going to let you access a shitload more apps.
This is all just speculation anyway, and is likely not to happen, the only situation currently happening is that Nokia were designing Android devices in case Microsoft didn't pan out, instead of dumping them they got them to market, sure it might benefit Microsoft down the track, it might not benefit Microsoft down the track, Hell, it might just not make one iota of difference either way.
Yeah its mostly speculation at this point, but i think that this is the "correct" reason for it if it were true. The people who are saying "We don't need anymore apps!" really need to step back and look at the grand scheme of things.
Lets look at Apple vs Google back in the day (full disclosure i am no expert). When the 3G came out, there were no true compelling reason to go to android. Functionality wise they were identicle at the time in terms of functionality except android appeared to be more complex and laggy. Because of that reason, more people flocked to iOS. At the time, the app store for Apple didn't allow ads to be played on their free apps. Right around when the release of the 3Gs came Galaxy S phones with Froyo which made android insanely smoother and more functional making it grow bigger in the market. Now on android, you can have ads on your apps which was good for developers because now they didn't have to put a price on the aps as long as they have ads they will make some money back. All they needed was for someone to boot up the ap once and they gained money and since free stuff is super popular, it was almost a no brainer. This made Android come up to what it is today. More functionality than iOS and roughly the same app store.
Let's take a look at Windows Phone (do not take it as bashing WP i really love WP over any OS right now). It had LESS functionality on release than even iOS. It has significantly less apps than iOS more importantly, it lacked Google apps. Sure argue all you want about Google, but you can't deny that a good portion (80%-90%) of people who own a smart use Google over Hotmail. 80% of the people on this website will say they dont use Google, all i have to say is good luck looking for an alternative to YouTube. Of course there are third party apps (and google being a butt head against microsoft) but a lot of people, myself included, would rather have an official app over a third party app where i need to sign in. So because of thsoe factors, a lot of people strayed away from WP and the developers walked with them. It makes sense. Why develop for a market that has ~10% market share when i have an app on the other guys and they control like 40%.
So if this phone is going to act as that bridge, even if its only on the very low end, im all for it. More users its just good,.
Maybe they want people who clamour for Android handsets to see for themselves how bad it actually is and then probably encourage them to switch to lumia ;)
This is a brilliant move by Microsoft. If the X does poorly, oh that is because it ran on Google's Android here use a windows phone, if it ran great, and people want to keep their Android apps, there is no reason why they can't add Android excluding Google to higher end Windows Phones. This is very coy by Microsoft they are willing to piss off Google in a big way. Very risky strategy but if it pays off very profitable as well.
No, Samsung would point to this laggy WP interface running on a Nokia/MS phone. End of story.
And it is easy enough to push out an update to the latest Android version. Wonder if it runs great with no lag? Then people might say wow Windows Phone is even better. From Microsoft's view more people using their services is better.
If people have a bad experience, the opposite could also happen. People who are ignorant about the platform running on their phone(90% of phone users) would possibly associate this with WP, because the Nokia X interface resembles WP. This could be a huge negative impact for WP.
That's also what I thinking. Almost every hands on I've seen of this line of phone have talked about how laggy it feels... by making it look like WP you're really not doing any favor for future low end WP phones
@inside man 55 - So uninformed, it is running on aosp android hence no google ties.
Thank you tech freak, did not Google develop and promote Android?
How many more times does this have to be said. This runs on AOSP Android not, I repeat NOT, Google Android!!
Shenanigans.
I love windows phone so much but all you windows fan boys need to open your eyes. Android apps on windows phone would make the ultimate phone. It would be amazing....and MS was behind it this whole time. Nokia would need permission from MS to use their services. So how would the Bot be okay with it? Its all about MS not WP.
Exactly... Those developers would then go on to develop WP specific apps once the user base increase.. It's all about getting their attention..
You argument rest on the hypothesis that this phone for some miracle reason will increase WP marketshare, which is ... let's say doutfull at best
Why would you by a device running apps from a third party. Why not just get a device with the apps running natively, which would provide a better user experience? How is this strategy working out for Blackberry?
Wrong, those developers would stick to building Android Apps because they would cover both platforms by doing that. Why do something twice that you could do once?
all devices run third party apps. Has google, microsoft, or apple made all the app in their app stores? Please thing before you speak!
Let me clarify, third party apps built for another platform. Those apps will not run natively on WP, thus the potential for a bad user experience.
If WP gets an Android virtual machine for apps it would be EXACTLY the same as running the apps on an android phone, which is simply running the Android VM over an incredibly basic version of Linux (which is why phones like the Nokia N9 or Jolla can be used to run Android apps, becuase they are Linux, so the fundamentals are in place).
Get a clue, kid.
IBM tried the same bullcrap with OS/2 back in the day. They got destroyed by Microsoft and its Windows OS.
Yeah but this is a different "kettle of fish", due to Android being free -- that is if you are referring to the Android/Microsoft fight. As far as I'm aware Microsoft developed OS/2, and charged IBM royalties. And at one point, IBM underpaid those royalties to the tune of nearly $17m. And IBM didn't want to pay it, and offered $10m. However, in the end, IBM settled with Microsoft with a figure in-between. Also, at some point Microsoft tripled IBM license fees. So yeah, I don't blame Microsoft for destroying OS/2 -- IBM was a giant compared to Microsoft at the time, but yet tried screwing them out of money. Therefore, IBM got everything they deserved in my eyes! ;)
That's different, if you knew what you were talking about then you would know that Microsoft worked with IBM on OS/2!!
Why would anyone buy a Windows Phone for android apps when you can just buy an android phone? What kind of roundabout reasoning are people using here?
The concept is simple... Grow all of the services, that WP provides, on the most popular platform, and it won't be a hard transition for people to make to a WP device..
Instead of waiting for Google to provide WP with its services MS is trying to get these users accustomed to their services.. WP is the most feature rich platform for MS services, so it's a no brainer if those users want to upgrade to a better device....... This will work as long as MS keeps it's services on low end hardware...
...........................
I swear, I like the whole idea of the NX more, and more, everyday...
WP services already exist on Android.
What Nokia and Microsoft are doing is the strategy that Google used to grow their business, by flooding windows with their services. The problem with the Nokia/Microsoft strategy is that in the process they are increasing the market share of their competitor, by introducing new hardware running the competitor's OS; so they are basically chopping off their own heads by making it more difficult for their own platform to compete. A low cost wp device with Nokia branding would do just as well as any Android(Pretending to be WP) device running those same services. This WP look alike will only serve to create brand confusion, and prove to be an hinderance to the growth and perception of WP.
Not exactly, this is not running Google's android. Its running the aosp variant.
The association suggests that Android equals Google. Perception is reality in alot of cases.
It runs android apps so to the users it makes no difference.
Even if it were going to increase Androids market share then it would be so small that it wouldn't be very impactful.. These aren't global devices, and MS seems to be not so worried with the shirt term affect, rather the long term affect of pushing it's services further in these emerging markets.. It's just not all about WP at the time... It's really about changing the perception of MS as a whole.. Then WP devices will sell themselves once people are onboard with everything MS, like a lot if people are with Google, and Apple... That's the bottom line..
If it is not going to be impactful then, why bother?
This statement is why I miss you rodneyej.....Good to see you back!
Microsoft is a big company with 130000 employees. This is bound to happen. Large departments have their own budgets. The one selling services do not give shit if they push it to WP or something else. We have seen this all the way with games, Xbox and so on. Lets hope the new CEO cleans up and gets the crew pulling in the same direction.
If Microsoft was really serious about this, they should made a low end WP with a Dalvik runtime.
And, they still might be developing a supper low end OS to replace this one, but they needed this now... You know how long it takes MS, and Nokia already had begun work.... I have faith that this will pan out well... Heck, it already has added popularity to WP the past few days... As a result of WP has received just as much attention as the NX... MS just better push Lumia beside NX in these markets..
Yup, its a marathon albeit a very slow and long winded one not 10 second flat out sprint. People by nature always think short term hence the common phrase "in hindsight I should've done this instead".
Dumb decision.
They were better-off not telling anyone that is based off of Android.
This way, people will simply be thinking that is only a knock-off version of Windows with a fine quality of Nokia.
Users knowing that this is Android will surely open them to explore Android as an alternative and MIcrosoft will lose users.
Worse-off is that Microsoft is fine with it, more insulting.
I hope Build will me more amazing than MWC
It is shaping up to be, cant wait to see the webcast and wp8.1 in all its glory as I have not been reading all the wp8.1 articles - only read about 3. I don't want to read no spoilers :p lol.
Fine
This strategy is garbage. If this is indicative of Android apps on WP, then that means that I will be dumping my 925 for an iPhone. I do not see how this benefits Windows Phone.
You don't work at Nokia or MS for a reason...
I don't have the skills, knowledge or expertise to work for either, however I do have the right to an opinion, and a possible course of action as a consumer.
They had to say this, what else could they do until the acquisition is done? They cannot influenced Nokia in any way until they take ownership and this X line was already in production before the acquisition was proposed. Do you really think the going to ruffle any feathers at this stage of the deal? Besides, who in this forum wouldn't side load their favorite apps if they could? How many of unlocked our phone when the opportunity arose with the chevron unlock key?
Bullshit. For one, hey could say nothing. Two, they don't have to share the stage with Nokia, use a Nokia X and talk about how they are fine with it. Microsoft could have snubbed Nokia and the X and their developer day. The embraced it. Accept this.
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First, we don't have to accept anything. We are the customers, and in more than one product category. Why can't these people realize the obvious? WP fails, because it is not competitive. Just as this is about to change in one haul, they communicate pro Android. There is zero chance, that these devices will generate enough sales. If they do, WP is done, effectively. Prepare for Nodroid Central.
What you don't understand is that you as a consumer - don't mean shit to Microsoft. You're irrelevant as far as they're concerned.
They built their corporation on enterprise applications, Hell the sale of Windows was only so business people could continue working from home.
When you can actually buy 5000 copies of Windows, Office, and Exchange Server packages, then Microsoft will listen to what you say. Until then, you'll either take what they give you, or you won't. But it doesn't mean anyting to them.
Look at the featureset of Windows 8.1 . Did you get what you wanted ? Because the companies that complaines got what they wanted. (Start menu, default to desktop mode, limiting touch screen use)
Look at Windows Phone 8.1 ? Did you get what you wanted as a consumer ? Because the companies got what they wanted. (VPN, Certificates, file manager)
You (and I) mean nothing to Microsoft's balance sheet. In fact, many shareholders want them to ditch WP altogether because it's not showing good profit margins in the US. Just like they want to sell out of Bing and Xbox. It's all about ROI, and in the US - it's not there. They're too little too late to the party. Not including VPN was a horrible choice and stalled any real growth in the US that they could've had. And before you say "There's more than the US" I know that , but Silicone Valley with their hedgefund managers and venture capitalists could care less. And they're the ones that bring the capital to the game. So what they say - goes.
Microsoft is an enterprise company. The rest is merely pennies to them.
@Daniel Rubino
Then they should stop their Scroogled BS...their diss of ChromeOS and accept that Android will overtake Windows on laptops, tablets and PCs someday in the future...
The year of Linux is upon us...brace yourself people
Linux <> Unix but still you get the grip.
Ok, now that's not going to happen anytime soon... Be realistic.
It's been the year of Linux for about 100 years now and it still hasn't happened!!
Its smart business to embrace than to outright snub their business partner. I'm just surprised that wpc is literally so positive about this crap as it is usually more objective than falling on "oh this idea is amazing" without looking at negatives. At the same time I'm also surprised at how many articles wpcentral has done for this.
When you say snubbed, do you mean killed the proposed aquisition? As for sharing the stage, why wouldn't they? They're about to own Nokia. I personally think Microsoft is looking at this as an opportunity to bring developers onboard with WP via this product just like they're saying it will potentially lure people to the Lumia line.
Actually, from reading the article and the quotes, it sounds more like Microsoft "accepted it" than "embraced it", and it's only in the comments where people's views become more polarized where it's turning into an either-or situation.
Until there's some evidence either way, I'm leaning towards a "they're so far into the production cycle they might as well get it out there" situation for when MS takes over. I'd also suggest that MS is holding their cards very close when it comes to how they'll handle X in the long term.
Embraced it? Hardly. Nothing I have seen indicates that they have "embraced" it. Accepted it for now, is more likely. Suggesting that they could have snubbed Nokia on their developer day is crazy talk. That would look terrible. Imagine the news reports of "Nokia releases 3 android phones, while MS is nowhere to be found"...Yeah, that would go over well.
Sorry, absolutely no one has detailed how this will benefit Windows Phone as a platform apart from some pie in the sky notion that Nokia x users will be so enthralled with Microsoft services and a knockoff WP UI that they will come running to real WP devices, abandoning their apps, data and other content in the hurry to switch so I find it hard to accept this is a strategy endorsed by Microsoft. And if we are to believe that Microsoft is ok with this then that right there tells us that Windows Phone as far as Microsoft is concerned is nothing but a side project that can be tossed aside the moment something better comes along. Good luck to them with their impending failure.
Well said.
I agree. Why doesn't our favorite Devices and Services company release a Surface with Android, then? Why do they even bother with operating systems anymore?
As i thought. Microsoft is already behind project X. To make people using microsoft service. Becausr it is "android" the most popular OS in the world. We have to admit it.
Lets start with who will buy this phone, l doubt it will be any Android fans. This is just to get Google to play nice in the sandbox;
Many older people with dump phones who want a new phone and trust Nokia's quality and they don't care or know about what is an OS.
There are plenty of people out there with that mindset. As there so many elderly that have not even gone online in their lives and are still using dumb phones. My dad had his Nokia 3310 for years until he lost it. I can tell you he was pretty darn upset. The 520 is to much for him tech wise so i got him the Nokia 101.
And before that they would choose the 520 and now they'll take the X... not exactly a win for MS
They wouldn't choose the 520, because in the markets for the X the 520 is much more expensive. Only in the US is the 520 as cheap as the android garbage phones. Emerging markets see the 520 up around 200 dollars, way more than 100€
It is a win. They prevented that person from going into Google's ecosystem. Instead they pull them into the MS ecosystem. Remember, they still bought a handset and they are now using MS services. Doesn't matter that it isn't a WP - it robbed Google of revenue....which is the real goal of the X.
No disrespect, but Nokia couldn't survive by relying on the Finn's only and the quality of this device is subpar. I hope Nokia is ready for lots of returns. If they aren't returned, it will only be a result of people being locked in to contracts.
Signed by: a current Nokia customer
This phone will get people to Windows Phone. They buy it, use Microsoft's services, and when they're looking for an upgrade they see that the (more expensive) Windows Phones are what they have right now, just better. It's like a trial version of WP. It looks like it, it has it's services, but you can clearly tell that it isnt WP.
+720
Stupid assessment...all Microsoft services are on Google Android.
Why would I buy a Google phone to use Microsoft's services instead of a Microsoft oriented phone?
Why would you take less (MS only) when you can get more (MS+Google)
Because you can't afford the google phone yet.... It's all about MS providing the best experience for the best price... That will eventually win over time..
Micromax phones are between $20 and $30 cheaper, featuring better cameras.
Where you been rodneyej? Haven't seen you "around these here parts in a while"
Because you can get MS services + google services + all the apps you've already been using on your Nokia x.
Finally, someone who gets it.
Sorry rich in still not getting it. People who support this idea are obviously not getting why this is bad lmao.
... and people like you, who don't get it, fail to see the bigger picture!!
So how come there arent more people jumping to Windows Phone which has all the Microsoft services already if they're so attractive?
Might want to do some fact checking before running your mouth; outside the US WP is growing steadily.
Again what's the real benefit in introducing a Android phone if your going to spend days apologizing for it. These devices serve one purpose now. They were going to be the future of Nokia they are now the legacy of a company that Microsoft was forced to buy.
What people don't seem to get, is that this is actually a pretty good move for Microsoft. Its like a car dealership, you don't buy all the Ford dealerships in the city, you buy a Ford, Chevy and even a Dodge. That way your main client who likes Ford will buy from you, but also maybe that big client who likes the Chevy and Dodge side will as well. Because if they were going to buy the Chevy or Dodge no matter how cheap you make your Ford, then it might as well be you who sells them the others.
Or you plan to sell a Dodge, but since you don't have the services consumers don't trust you. Wishful thinking, nothing more. In the end, you will get problems selling Fords, because you helped finding arguments pro Dodge.
Or, since you are selling the stock Dodge Dart (Lumia X) with none of the features of the normal Dodge line (Android), but most of the features that your real money maker the Ford (WP) has, then when it comes time to trade in the Charger you'll pick up something you are now used to and even splurge a bit and get a GT (the WP lumia)
Pretty much to a T, you cant simply survive with just one product, you need different products to appeal to a wide variety audiences. Sure there are overheads but look at blackberry and where they ended up in comparison to MS they have services that generate billions of dollars. It is all about finding that right balance - spend to much - you might not recoup your costs and spend to little you might not get the exposure to sell (everything has an associated risk), therefore finding a monetization model that works is key. On the flip side, said model needs to be constantly evaluated to ensure its still relevant. From reading the comments it is apparent some people here I don't think have worked at all in business or marketing :p. Regardless everyone is entitled to their opinion.
They don't just have one product though. Windows phone is one of many and if Microsoft hadn't drug their feet as they did we could hav probably see even faster growth.
Using your competitors os while undermining your own is stupid.
They are doing a bit of both. Yes, they are making it looks as if they don't have the best faith in their own is by doing such a thing, but that's also being realistic and knowing your business. But they are also using Android against Google by doing this. Google can't do anything to stop them and Microsoft can basically make it how ever they want. They will turn it into a very cheap WP knock off and then people will get used to it, like how the services and everything syncs with all their other stuff, then when it's upgrade time go for the real deal.
Nothing about this strategy will get people to move to WP later on, nothing. The reason we know this is because its whats happening now, practically no one is jumping to WP despite it having cheap devices and all the services people are touting as enticements on the Nokia x. The real winner will be google when all these users upgrade to higher specced androids that have all the apps (including the vaunted MS services) theyve been using for years.
Very true, most people seem to think that if you release your product on a competitors product and such, that you've simply given up. But reality is that most of the time you just can't do that anymore. Everyone in the tech business at one point or another, has one of their products on a competitors platform.
Surely this abomination before god will be axed as soon as the deal is complete.
Or they'll dump Windows Phone on it and say ooh look OEMs, case study for converting a sh!tty slow laggy android into something that actually performs well.
My WP (Lumia 920) lags like buggery, it ran fine with nothing on it, now that I actually have apps installed it runs like balls (and while I hate the fact that I can have sweet F.A. apps, less than half the apps I actually use on a regular basis, running in the background, I imagine it would be even worse if there was no cap), I can't wait to upgrade to a snapdragon 800.
I'd hate to see what some of the lower spec WP's perform like after owning them for a good few months (and actually installing stuff on them).
Oh, and it's always fun when some random program arses up the live tiles, people can say it's a fault of the programs as much as they like but when it's a Bing app that caused it most recently, that argument doesn't hold much weight.
I'm still a fan of WP and what it's TRYING to do, but it is so far from being the go to OS and needs a HELL of a lot of work.
I own 2 L920's, 3 HTC 8X's, and 1 L822; None of them lag, I haven't had any issues outside of apps.
Great, so all I have to do is not run programs and my phone will be jitter free, thanks for your help in rectifying my problem, now I will never see those little horizontal dots again or have my phone jitter on the home screen (which would happen after exiting an app).
Dude, my chauffeur has 920 jam packed with games and random apps. its been over a year of use. It runs as smooth as ever. My 2.5 year old HTC Titan has 18 games and about 60 apps everything runs fine. Its so smooth that even the tech support who repaired my screen at a 3rd party store, were SHOCKED to find out its a single core phone. I kid not. My current baby is a Lumia 1520, 2 months old so I cannot vouch for its 'lag-free' abilities as yet but I will comment in the future, but so far lag free.
Im sorry but I dont think you own a 920. im calling horse shit on this one bcs bullshit is useful to millions of people, its even used to create incense :-D
My mum and sister owns a 620, her fiancee a 520, my dad a 925. Nothing has lagged so far, im talking about a year old devices here, unlike my 1520.
Peace
Of course, I couldn't possibly own a 920, becuase I'm only using myself as evidence, see I need to spout about 30 family members who also own Windows Phones PLUS a whole bunch of hyperbole about random store owners before anyone would even THINK to believe I own a Windows Phone.
Nothing is perfect buddy, it's a fact. Am I saying that the slowdown in my phone is agonising and the end of the World? No, because it's not, it's a very minor issue, but I don't simply stick my head in the sand and cry bloody murder if any cries foul of Nokia, they are the only reason I own a Windows Phone, and I'm sure that things will improve especially, as I've said elsewhere, once I snap up a Snapdragon 800 phone I'll be laughing. However I'm not going to pretend that my phone is perfect because it isn't, if it was I would never have a need to upgrade devices ever again.
So feel free to shove your head firmly into that sand (or whereever else you feel like putting it) and I will continue to criticise my favourite companies so that tomorrow, they can be even better.
Typed on my non-existant Windows Phone.
Sure you're using a WP and not a Nokia x?
Weird as both my parents went to 520 as temp phones until they can get a better phone on contract as their iPhone and ace 2 died on them and the only issue they tell me is how do they get songza working. Besides that they say its amazingly fast. And I'm on a 1020 so I can't complain with the 2gb. I had the 520 for 6 months so something is up with ur phone then bud
Exactly my thought!!!
Of course they would say that they're ok with it. They wouldn't exactly trash talk the company that they're about to buy. They're killing this phone off, I'm calling it.
I really hope you are right. It seems logical for MS not to speak badly of Nokia. I truly hope the X devices never do enter the market. That may be possible if the acquisition is complete before launch date.
Just because they knew about it doesn't mean they're ok with it. Hence the "less than exciting" statement and the repetition of Nokia still being a separate entity until the deal closes. Its all Nokias decision right now imo, not Microsoft.
The excuse is, the X will bolster developing countries to acquaint users with MS's services. I thought the 520 was doing just that. With w8.1, WP devices can be made even cheaper! So how does the X factor into the equation? It doesn't! It underscores the 520 and all the would be cheaper WPs. I'd kill it too as it is a waste! Asha is a waste. Dumb phones are a waste. Developing countries doesn't mean people don't know what an iPhone is.
Nokia certainly stole the spotlight with this announcement. No one seems to talk about the Galaxy S5 or Gear watch. Newsites, blogs and forums are all about WP, Nokia and Microsoft.
Last time I checked, they were talking only about the Galaxy S5.
And how ugly it is.
GOOD ONE!!!!
While hardcore WP people are upset with Nokia X, I think the fact the MS is ok with it is a great thing. As you mentioned, its not just about WP here, which is only at 1-3% marketshare world-wide (if that). This is about the Microsoft ecosystem of services, OneDrive, Azure, Skype, 365, et al.
If these features don't exist on the user's platform of choice, they can and will find alternatives. This means less people using their platform and services overall. Less revenue.
They are clearly not okay with it. But should they say the different thing and produce a phone dead on arrival? They cant not say it is okay because it is part of the deal with Nokia and Microsoft
Define "clearly"?
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even You, Brutus? ;)
You getting assimilated by the Borg...already!
Enough with the nonsense about how WP has failed and holds no market share! Yes, they do have a problem in the US, but luckily there are 6.7 billion people living outside the states.
WP is already the 2nd OS in South America and many European countries. We now have stabile double digits in most of the EU, and are about to overtake iOS in some of the biggest European markets (Germany, UK, Italy..). AFAIK India is picking up, while Asia in general needs more work.
I completley expect WP to overtake iOS in all markets outside the US/Canada in the next 1-2 years or so.
This Normandy strategy is sending the wrong message to devs (MS loosing faith in WP), confusing customers, may drive people to Android as their next upgrade and is alienating the WP power user community (check out the comments on our usual sites...).
As a former 900 and 920 user respectively I like the platform. There is no way with MS buying Nokia they did not know this was in the works. They do not love this, but I think they are ok as this will bring more people to the Microsoft ecosystem as a whole. While giving the consumer the choice of android. As far as market share, I think that is relevant. They are indeed picking up steam in other countries, but it still has a ways to go. Nokia had to continue business as usual, after the MS purchase, and this was their plan. Perhaps the low end market familiarity of android to some users, coupled with lots of MS services, they thought was a gateway to the Lumia platform and full MS. IDK
The X familiy is a bold chance and risk. If it work it will have a huge payout if it fails it will drag down especially the low end Lumia market with it.
yes, or: "If it work it will have a huge payout if it fails (...)" they may just kill it at any time?
These MS services pretty much already exists on other platforms and for those that don't will be coming before the year is out. It is not a complete ecosystem on the X because there will be Android apps. If I'm looking to move from the X to another platform it would be to a higher end Android device that would have the same services and still run the apps I've purchased already. Also it would be fairly easy to change services to Google.
You are wrong. If history told us anything, especially from the PC world, is that non-tech people tend to stick with the default apps (which is why IE still rules the desktop browser market share, despite people keep shitting on how crap it is for many many years). This happened with iOS as well with the crappy Apple Map which was inferior to Gmaps which it replaced but people stuck with it simply because it is the default app. The fact of the matter is non-tech people are lazy and don't look for alternatives, so it doesn't matter that MS service apps exists on Android - because it is not a default app! But they can achieve this with the Nokia X here by forking and shoving the MS service in people's face and when people use them, they will choose their next, better phone based on what comes as default, and that would be Lumia, not another Google blessed Android phone from Samsung or whatever.
If MS continues with Nokia X even after the acquisition is complete, it will be sad. I don't like it.
It indicates, they will also be okay with android apps on WP.
I hope not.