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Microsoft's Satya Nadella says if OEMs don't make Windows phones they will

Satya Nadella
Satya Nadella (Image credit: Windows Central)

Microsoft had a rather significant event yesterday with their keynote at their Worldwide Partner Conference down in Florida. After the keynote, ZDNet's Mary Jo Foley was able to speak with Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella about Microsoft's strategy – and more importantly – plans for mobile.

The 30-minute transcribed interview is truly fascinating to read in its entirety. Nadella is very precise in his language, and it is clear he certainly has an impressive albeit abstract vision of the company and Windows 10 and Windows 10 Mobile. Although you should read the interview yourself, for now we are just focusing on one area that Foley focused on for a few questions: Windows Phone.

Much has been made of Microsoft's decision last week to cut back on Lumia models and to seemingly scale back investment on the consumer side of mobile. Some pundits are claiming that this is the beginning of the end while others like myself see this as a smart – and necessary – shift in strategy (see also my #AskDanWindows Episode 2).

'We'll build them'

Microsoft's strategy appears to be the one I have put forth: let their OEMs build devices for Windows Phone. Foley asks about the highly interesting letter by Microsoft COO Kevin Turner, which mentions a Surface strategy being applied to mobile. Nadella's response is thought-provoking:

"If no OEM stands up to build Windows devices we'll build them. There will be Lumia devices. So I'm not afraid of saying, okay, it's all about the OEMs, or it's all about the ecosystem. It's about Windows. It is about the overall health of Windows and being grounded in any given day's reality, but having ambition of where the market is going versus being bound by current definitions."

Nadella reiterates the message later on:

"If there are a lot of OEMs, we'll have one strategy. If there are no OEMs, we'll have one strategy. We are committed to having the phones in these three segments. And I think the operational details will become clear to people as they see it."

Those three segments are Enterprise, budget phones, and flagship devices. My reading of Nadella's response is that Microsoft is committed to having Windows Phones now and in the future. Ideally, Microsoft's OEM partners build the bulk of those devices. However, if they do not step up, Microsoft fills that gap.

This mobile approach is the very same as the Surface one to bootstrap PC and two-in-one device manufacturing and sales. I think at this time, this is the right approach too.

Universal apps and a 'path dependent' strategy

Later in the interview, Foley raises the issue in downplaying Windows Phone, and how it could affect Microsoft's Universal Windows Apps plans for Windows 10. Without a phone story, Windows 10 becomes a lot less attractive. Foley gets right to the point:

Q:"Why as a developer do I now want to build an app that runs on Windows Phone if there's going to be even fewer Windows Phones?"

Nadella answers with a not obvious but well thought out response. In short, developers do not want to build apps for Windows Phone , that is the point. However, they may wish to build an app for the millions of Windows desktop users. Once they commit to that, however, they are now on a path since they can easily add that app to Xbox, HoloLens or even Windows Phone:

"Universal Windows apps are going to be written because you want to have those apps used on the desktop. The reason why anybody would want to write universal apps is not because of our three percent share in phones. It's because a billion consumers are going to have a Start Menu, which is going to have your app. You start the journey there and take them to multiple places. Their app can go to the phone. They can go to HoloLens. They can go to Xbox. You talk to somebody like Airbnb. It might be more attractive, given our three percent share on phone, for them to actually build something for the desktop and for the Xbox.""And by the way, when we hook them on that, we have a phone app. This strategy is path dependent, which is a term I use that means where you start is not where you end up. And therein lies a lot of the nuance. The fundamental truth for developers is they will build if there are users. And in our case the truth is we have users on desktop."

This point is exactly what I mentioned on Friday. Developers still won't want to make apps for Windows Phone, but that is okay since they can go for millions of users on the desktop. Since the Universal Windows app tools allow a one app package, companies can just as easily publish their app to Windows Phone. After all, why not? It costs them nothing, and they can grab a few million more users.

Mind you, this is still a big risk. Microsoft is assuming that developers want to make apps for Windows 10. This desire has yet to be demonstrated, and it all hinges on that point. If companies still do not see a value in making Windows 10 apps, then the phone is very much dead. The bet here is on millions of Windows 7 and Windows 8 users taking Microsoft up on that free Windows 10 update, which is just a means to an end: the Windows 10 Store.

Is that chancy? You bet. However, leveraging Microsoft's strongest point – the desktop OS – is the smartest path to success. Stop trying to win on the phone directly when you can do it indirectly.

Nadella clarifies and reinforces this strategy as Foley presses him more:

"Because all of this comes down to how are you going to get developers to come to Windows. If you come to Windows, you are going to be on the phone, too. Even if you want to come to Windows because of HoloLens, you want to come to it because of Xbox, you want to come to the desktop, all those get you to the phone. It's not about let's do head-on competition. That will never work. You have to have a differentiated point of view."

When I hear from developers now that the outreach budgets to make Windows Phones apps has been slashed, which is true, by the way, it makes sense in this context. Why bother sinking money in getting Windows Phone specific apps when you are betting on all of Windows 10? It is about the big picture here.

"When I think about our Windows Phone, I want it to stand for something like Continuum."

Finally, Nadella also brings up Continuum, something that he claims is his favorite part of Windows 10 and Windows Mobile (and mobile, with a lowercase). Nadella does not see Microsoft competing head on with Apple or Android for smartphones. In that sense, yes, Microsoft is giving up at least on the traditional model.

Nadella though is focusing on the next era, what comes after smartphones. His vision and answer to this is Continuum, or broadly speaking the idea that your device adjusts to your environment. For PCs, this is the ability to remove a keyboard and switch to tablet mode. For a phone, this is the capacity to attach a mouse, keyboard and display to make it run Universal apps like a computer. Here is how Nadella talks about it:

"Therefore, we have to be on the hunt for what's the next bend in the curve. That's what, quite frankly, anyone has to do to be relevant in the future. In our case, we are doing that. We're doing that with our innovation in Windows. We're doing that with features like Continuum. Even the phone, I just don't want to build another phone, a copycat phone operating system, even.""So when I think about our Windows Phone, I want it to stand for something like Continuum. When I say, wow, that's an interesting approach where you can have a phone and that same phone, because of our universal platform with Continuum, and can, in fact, be a desktop. That is not something any other phone operating system or device can do. And that's what I want our devices and device innovation to stand for."

The Intel Windows Phone gambit

We have already seen what Continuum for phones brings when Microsoft's next flagships launch this fall. However, what about going further? Someone asked me about "Intel-powered phones" and if I thought they were coming.

I can now answer you: yes , early next year. Microsoft does have an Intel plan in the works. Would that make a good use of the Surface brand once you have an x86 phone that can be a true computer?

Perhaps it would, perhaps it would.

Source: All About Microsoft (ZDNet)

Daniel Rubino
Daniel Rubino

Daniel Rubino is the Executive Editor of Windows Central, head reviewer, podcast co-host, and analyst. He has been covering Microsoft here since 2007, back when this site was called WMExperts (and later Windows Phone Central). His interests include Windows, Microsoft Surface, laptops, next-gen computing, and arguing with people on the internet.

  • Breathes sigh of relief.
  • Either way ms should build one phone and it must be premium surface phone
  • Satya is really ready up with roadmap where to turn .!! I pretty much have a good sense windows10 for phone will really come up with something on its launch at IFA which can really get more devs to give it a chance .!! And hoping really for best
    !! "Quality over Quantity" is wht it sounds like at the moment and very much welcoming ;)
  • I understand what Nadella is saying regarding the desktop attracting developers to Universal apps--the problem is that most Mobile/Universal apps are not functional enough & so desktop users don't want to use them. A perfect example is the Xbox Music app. That was a golden opportunity for Microsoft to create a Metro app that was powerful enough that you'd WANT to use it on the desktop... INSTEAD OF iTunes, or WMP, or Zune software... but it's not anywhere close to any of those. And THAT'S the problem. Give us Universal apps that are as powerful & useful as desktop apps. That shape-shift with Continuum, and all the features of desktop apps. THEN desktop users will use them.
  • Totally agree they would have been better at finding a way to get their desktop apps into modern apps which is probably what's next
  • I believe that is the point Nadella is making here. Provide a compelling and widespread OS (Windows 10) that developers will flock to because of the vast number of users. These are the guys that are going to be making the full blown apps equivalent to the traditional desktop apps. I think we'll all get a much better view of this idea when the App version of Office is released. This will demonstrate to the developers what kind of rich experience can come out of a "Metro" app. I expect Adobe and other major SW suppliers are already working in that direction. Now to get the little guy on board.
  • Exactly. And with Skype and other Microsoft Apps, they aren't following the path of Universal Apps themselves.
  • I think in the Build 2015 conference Microsoft said that you could cover a Win32app into a Universal Windows app with little tweaking. My thinking is that Nadella may do the unthinkable and actually ditch ARM and go Intel for its phone line. Maybe this might provide the differentiation Windows Phone needs from the competition and it would simplify the idea of Continuum plus you could backdoor Win32 apps under an x86_64 platform and have these enabled only on Continuum mode.
  • I think that a CoreM phone would be pretty neat with Continuum but this will have limited appeal beyond IT people.    They need a suite for Personal APPS like iLife (not an Office suite) for consumers for phone and tablet.   Microsoft should give a sh!t load of money to Scott Forestal to build one for them.(yes he would need a whole team).
  • I agree. But they will have to keep the ARMs for the OEMs but the Lumias can be on the Adam chip and have a good continuum.
  • You obviously haven't read up on universal apps they will be the Same on both windows desktop and phones or tablets it will just scale up and down.
  • True. They should try to make those "apps" powerful. In three years since Windows 8 release, they could have done wonders to the Music app but look what they did! They failed to live up to the expectations of so many users. They can't blame third party developers if they fail. They seem equally uninterested in developing (quality) apps for their own platform.
  • This
  • Yeah, but the only thing is that now companies will be more comfortable with declining to manufacturer a device with Windows Phone on it since Microsoft is obliged to do so themselves.
  • Yep.!! After this time past if manufacturers cant get to promote windowsphone thru them .! We can since wht the hardware acquisiton decision was done for ;)
  • I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say.
  • I read it ten times, then had my daughter come over and read it. No clue in this home what he meant to say.
  • Rough translation... Yes!! after this, time will tell if manufactures can promote windows phone.  we can actually see if Microsoft made the right decision in purchasing Nokia...    My guess is your trying to say that you hope manufactures are going to step up and make quality phones and that Microsoft made the right move in actually purchasing Nokia.  I hope i can inturpret your wording  correctly.  The joy of someone trying to convey their words in English.  Exp when its not your native tongue. 
  • Companies are comfortable declining to manufacturer wp devices now. What this strategy means is that if the ecosystem does improve, with delvelopers making universal that run on wp, developers can feel comfortable knowing they can invest in the platform and microsoft will get out of their way. The current situation, with Lumias owning 90% of the wp market, isn't ideal to get more manufacturers onboard.
  • If Microsot's strategy works (and I hope it does) the developers will show up, the phone will become more popular, and OEMs will be jumping on the bandwagon. And meanwhile, if Mocrosoft makes a crap load of money off of Surface phones, all the better.
  • Downvote for "Surface phones".
  • There have always been OEMs building Windows phones in addition to Microsoft.  Nokia did really well before selling, but MS is very new to the smartphone device portion of the market.  If Samsung puts Windows 10 on an S6, then I could see a lot more people paying attention to the OS.  However, saying MS committing to make phones will make others care less isn't true.  MS makes the Surface tablet line, and there are a plethora of other tablets and 2-in-1 devices on the market from OEMs.  I do expect MS to retain the majority of the Windows phone market, but others will continue to join once Windwos 10 takes off.
  • @shrxyx86:
    Can haz ATIV S6 edge phone, pleeze?!
  • Why should Samsung expend any resources putting Windows Mobile on a an S6.  Sales will be minimal and any profits probably would cover the cost of development and who would carry it.  Other than ATT none of the carriers have been particularly interested in supporting Windows Phone.
  • I personally dont care if the OEMS do or not....because the other OEMs are largely irrelevant.
  • No, this is incorrect. The opposite is true, in fact, if MS is willing to bring high-quality, affordable phones to market at no profit, then why should Samsung or HTC get in the game just to be undercut by MS? Add that to the fact that they can't tweak the OS to differentiate their product, and it's a really hard sell to get OEMs to make Windows phones.
  • People need to get off the Surface phone thing. You don't pay millions for a name and then not use it. They bought Lumia, they are going to use Lumia.
  • That's a good point.
  • Surface devices are great for Enterprise and Education, but for the consumer market there are not a lot of options with a Pen so accurate, I think te Lumia brand can be used for consumer and the Surface phone can be used  for enterprise guys which want to run Intel software on their phones, Just my2 cents.
  • you mean like how they paid billions for Nokia and are now offloading a lot of it.  :).  I love WP, but they are clearly willing to write down bad purchases and that means maybe launching a surface phone given that for them now surface=full OS.  Where that leaves my Surface 2, i dont know...
  • Write-downs are typically reflected in a company's income statement as an above-the-line expense, thereby reducing net income. This, however, IS NOT ALWAYS A BAD THING, since a write-down is simply a paper loss, which, since it lowers net income, will reduce a firm's tax burden. Companies will usually attempt to time large write-downs together, so they can "take a bath" in one reporting period with the hope of quickly recovering in the next period. Offloading Nokia? I think not, as least not in the sense you seem to think of it. Ballmer may have been a fun guy to have at a backyard barbeque and was quite a salesman, but I would never consider him to be one of the smartest guys in the room. Not stupid, mind you, not in the least. But you take a look at who is in the room running things these days, and you'll see what I mean. They are looking at things the rest of us aren't privvy to on a day-to-day basis. They are looking way beyond such short-sightedness that quite frankly, I see OTHER pundits miss completely. Hah! Xbox this, Halolens that ... indeed! They are missing the boat. If you think Microsoft is the same old beat'em and beat'em forcefully company they may have been in the past, that ship has sailed. I don't buy Apple, but I have to admit none of those guys are stupid either. Tim Cook knows the bottom line; look at which field he comes from. But don't think that Satya Nadella doesn't know his shit, too.  
  • This write-down doesn't affect their Tax liability at all... Its a charge on their Balance Sheet, not Profit&Loss (Income) statement
  • Why can't Lumia and Surface co-exist like galaxies co-exist with other Android; the only difference is that they will be manufactured by the same company. Manny OEM's make multiples devices.
  • This was the sentiment a year ago. Now the Lumia line has pretty much had it's chance. I think it's more important that Lumias stick with lower to mid range phones. Keep the premium Surface phone to be their flagship. As we see what's going on now, it kinda points in that direction. And I think you meant billion 
  • Ditto!
  • So it warms you up that the premium or flagship device is called a surface phone or a lumia phone? It's still the same manufacturer so what it counts is the quality of the device
  • I didn't say it would, but they sure make it seem that way. In the end, I really won't care because I will be buying their largest display flagship phone regardless. What I am saying though, is that their recent moves point in this direction. I could be wrong, but this is the impression they're giving me. You can say it all you want, but Microsoft has been trying to deal with the brand Windows since the beginning of their time, and in the past 10 years, a large majority of people don't trust the name anymore. Any time you give people a chance to say what they think about windows phones or tablets, they'll probably tell you they don't like it and it's probably full of viruses. Whether this is true or not, the brand has been damaged. The Lumia line is not any better. BUT, the Surface brand has taken a great path to success. Why not leverage from that and use it to sell your premium phone. Think of it from a business perspective rather than from your heart. I think it makes sense, from a business perspective.
  • So far all the best Windows phone devices have been Lumia or HTC branded. Sure, there have been low cost devices with the Lumia name, but even many of those were high quality. I won't say that a new premium brand would hurt, but Surface is not it. Borrowing the name of the large, notebook-replacement tablets with attached keyboards for a flagship phone would be a really poor idea.
  • jeddic, those have been pretty much the only windows phones... I say leverage off a high selling brand, rather than from a struggling one.
  • This makes a lot of sense. Which means it probably won't happen.
  • Exactly, and Surface isn't a worldwide brand.
  • You're right, and I think that the Lumia name will continue. However, with the higher end devices coming with continuum and Intel processors,I think that the Surface branding will be used. Don't see see this as a problem really.
  • Great, they'll have attached keyboards and 12" displays? Also will it have enough storage for my Steam library?
  • totally agree.Lumia is purely phone.Dan's last paragraph however, suggests a hybrid phablet/PC, something that would truly be fitting for the Surface brand. ​ ​ ​ ​
  • A Surface phone would be Intel powered and would be able to run win32 apps. I.e. a 5 inch Surface that can make calls. 
  • I agree.  Let Surface stand for tablets and Lumia be associated with phones.  However, having a phone in the similar design style as a Surface would be interesting.
  • Call me stupid, but can't you buy a Surface 3 with LTE connectivity?  Is there such a thing as a Skype call?  Is Skype integrated into Outlook? 
  • A Lumia family and and a Surface family, any contradiction?
  • Seriously, I don't understand why people are so obsessed with a name. They can make Lumia's look like the Surface phone people imagine in their heads. Heck, I think phones like the Lumia 925 already do this.
  • That brings about confusion I think
  • No, they bought Nokia and I doubt they bought it for Lumia brand.
  • You couldn't be more wrong. Microsoft did NOT buy Nokia, they bought the mobile phones division as well as the Lumia name.
  • Lumia should be your flagship and budget phones. Surface phone should be x86.
  • You use the Lumia name for mid range devices they could use the Asha name for the low end and the surface name for high end
  • Brand Marketing is critical.  This is about the Windows ecosystem.  If anything it shoul be Windows Phone.  But ideally you want a brand name that builds on an experieince.  How does Lumia, Surface, Windows 10, XBox, Hololens tie together?   The great consumer products companies have a clear brand ID.  iPhone, iPad, iOS all ties together.  Coca-Cola, the iconic glass bottle, the ribbon, the bubbles all tie together to provide a unique Coca-Cola ID.    MSFT rpoblem is there brand ID, the Windows Logo is all tied to the desktop and software.  That world is changing rapidily to a mobile always connected mobile world.  Windows did not keep up with this transition.  Now they are behiind and need to expand the brand.  So Office 365, Azure, Windows 10, Skype, Surface, Lumia.  How do you tie this together.  Difficult.
  • Dont they just put the Word Microsoft infront of them all. So Microsoft Office 365, Microsoft Skype, Microsoft Windows 10, Microsoft Surface, Microsoft Lumis, Microsoft Azuere, Microsoft Grove, Microsoft Xbox ect but I do see what you are saying but Apple are not all I devices you still have Mac, AppleTV, Apple Watch outside of Ipad, Iphone, Itunes but I do see where you are coming from. Microsoft are in the middle of a rebranding as a company at the moment and they are also in the middle of makinging all their services and software work togehter as this has been the biggest issue minrosoft have had for a long time in that every service the offered was never connected now OneDrve, Grove, Xbox, Windows, Office 365 and more will all be linked in one way or another.
  • Actually you are also completly wrong, the only reason why MS purchased Nokia was to keep phones coming thru the pipeline until they were ready to do WM10. As you can tell from last weeks write down and layoffs, they dont need Nokia anymore.
  • Hey, sunk costs are sunk costs. They shouldn't play a role in decision making. They will (or at least, they should) use whatever name they feel best markets the device.
  • We have been telling this to MS for long. I would say, here on make two midrange Lumia phones and make one highend surface phone every year.Period. Leave rest to OEMs.
  • Take Samsung's moto, they only have 3 models now...people are still going to get their phones on contract cause that's what the market says with over 150 Million people on contracts in the USA.
  • I'm pretty sure Samsung has more than 3 models...they have at least have 15 model ranging from feature phone to smartphone
  • But a billion phone users overseas that don't have contracts.  They pay cash for their phones.  The US and Chinese market (which happen to be the two largest) will be the last two that MSFT finds success.
  • There won't be a Surface phone as long as Microsoft owns rights to the Lumia name. Lumia is what's it right now. No need for "Surface."
  • Low-end and flagship models: Lumia
    Enterprise model: x86-based Surface phone with Continuum, sounds exciting!
  • I hope for desktop apps support in x86/x64 Continuum!
  • I believe MS recently posted a video on one of their YouTube channels that says for now Continum only works with apps from the App Store for now.
  • Continuum on mobile will only support "store" apps.  Don't forget that they showed at Build how easy it was for Adobe to package one of their programs to be distributed on the store.
  • They already said that repackaged apps like that won't run on phones.
  • On ARM based devices..There's nothing stopping them from running on Windows Mobile devices compatible with the intel instruction set.
  • I hope "Continuum" means more than just "use your phone as a desktop".  That would mean only Snapdragon 800+ devices.   The meaning should be more broad, such as "use and sync your phone from your tablet/laptop/desktop".  For example, making calls and text messages from your PC (like macs).  Or, instantly listen to your phone's music library from your PC.  Or, instantly broadcast a video to your PC (like Chromecast).  Or, use your phone's sensors from your PC (phone's mic for Cortana on PC, camera as webcam, GPS for Edge/Maps, or phone's touchscreen as trackpad/keyboard on a tablet).  Too easy, and something that would differentiate WP from the competition.
  • INTC has the best technology.  But they have the uncompetetive designs.  I am certain that Intel will release a smartphone chip that can compete against Qualcomm.  Is the chip released 3rd qtr, 4th qtr, or 1st qtr 2016.  Later?
  • Best news of the year.
  • Well... Flagship late this year and another with intel early next year? Buy or wait... And Nadella address the app point really well though just because someone has an easy choice to make an app doesn't mean they will: The lack of apps is predicated on perception and business and a whole lot more. Take snap chat: They may make a pc app, they may not - but wp looks like a no no... And then there are banks, share trading platforms etc that still don't have windows apps - use a browser or buy a tablet (one GIVES YOU iPad air 2 for free per account!!!)... Will this change? I don't know but I hope so because I don't need social networks personally but professional and Enterprise apps are a must!!! Here's hoping!!!
  • Well Rangeley & cherrytrail just aren't ready for really intensive tasks(maybe some kind of water-cooled solution) and will it use gpt instead of mbr. Also anyone who's used a hitron docsis modem know it was not meant to house a intel cpu
  • Windows phone has got to have a million apps or more by now; last count months ago OR even late last year was 750k which is not than enough for me.
  • App count doesn't matter.  Having quality apps and the current "it" app does matter.  iOS has a lot of dupluicate apps (they no longer approve fart apps), and Android has a lot of copy cat apps with malware.
  • Snapchat still might not make an app since it was really designed to run on a phone and their users probably won't use it on a pc or xbox. The social apps will only come if the phone market share can climb to around 10%. However, most adult  phone users don't really use many of these social apps. It's mostly a service teenagers and college kids use.  With the ability to wrap websites into apps that can access notifications and hardware, there really isn't much excuse for a bank to not make an app. All they have to do is make some adjustments to their current websites and package into a universal app. I think the professional and enterprise apps will definitely be there because what company doesn't want their app to be on windows? How big does your deposit have to be for a bank to give away a $400 tablet?
  • Yeah, I had the exact same thought: Lumia flagships are coming in months, but then an Intel phone is coming "early next year"? Well, what the heck do I do about that? Is it worth the wait for the Intel phone?
  • As a Windows user and fan I'm not nearly as optimistic as Dan thinking this being a win for the phone part of Windows. I like the strategy and agree this is the best way to expand and improve the user experience and adopters to the phone part of Windows. The problem is so many of these developers simply HATE the platform and refuse to make an app even when guaranteed profits and extreme high demand are there. See Snapchat. This generation is a Google/Apple generation doing everything they can to not empower Windows. They design and create and refuse to include and if they have a choice to not include the phone version, I suspect they won't, no matter how easy it is. The other part of this story is media coverage and perception. Today's media in general falls in line with the developers view. Every move Microsoft makes is usually lambasted or given a negative slant while Google and Apple are given positive props and adulations. This translates to low consumer confidence in the Windows brand overall with even less for the phone sector.
    As the resident half nerd at work people always ask which phone, etc... to get. I always say Windows phone. It's actually the easiest to use when you first pick it up. My 12 year olds' friends prefer her Lumia 630 to their iPhones and Androids, but none of them convince their parents to buy them one. Even the ones that want it can't find them at Sprint, TMobile and are very limited at Verizon. Also, the sales reps push them towards the Galaxies and iPhones.
    Point being, this battle Microsoft has is way deeper than Universal apps. That's a great starting battle to win. Public perception for the phones is bad. I can see why with the things people usually use not being a brand staple. I'm talking music and video and social media. The music part of the mobile division is straight jacked up. Nothing on Video says - USE ME! I'm talking straight out the box when you fire it up. People want music, videos and social media on their phones. Us nerds want office, Continuum, etc... Reality is 6tag and Kik are the saviors of Windows mobile. Google knows how important video is and that is why they cripple the Windows version for mobile Youtube.
    The 12 year old got a Dell tablet running 8.1 for $79 and basically abandoned her Kindle Fire HD. That's her school savior. She writes reports, watches YouTube and reads her books on it. She loves it and her friends love it. That sector of Windows is safe.
    Before her soccer games she and her friends and the people they play against are all on their phones. That is the reality. These kids don't sit in front of computers unless they have to. They use tablets and phones. Tablets are for working, phones are for life. Life is music, social media and videos.
    If Microsoft wants phones to fly off the shelf give free music download subscriptions for two years to match the contract the parents are on. Make phones with 16gb-32gb internal storage standard along with expandable memory. Now you get them hooked. Nearly every kid with an iPhone is running around with full memory and no way to grow it. The cloud kills the cell phone bill because of high data usage while on the go even with every places free but slow WiFi.
    People want entertainment and Windows Phone says work.
  • I think they should listen to you - to the point at least.
    Perception is a real problem - and frankly I'm not sure what MS can do about it, I don't understand it myself (and I'm living it), it's total nonsense and business counter-intuitive, yet it is. IMO, world is yet to catch the "wave" and all that is happening is just moving too fast, developers and blogers have more power and say than politicians these days.
    And the kids are the ultimate users - everything runs and everything is targetting young population. Frank Sinatra Jr. (his "kid") said recently that Jazz is being produced for 16-to-25 target group ? : ) that says it all IMO.
    You're right, MS should use some money to offer free services to hook the kids into using it - not just Office and biz. Instead of buying companies that's probably smarter investment.
    Interesting read (y)
  • This is the outlook that I love hearing...why go after competition directly when you can go indirectly..use PC as a launching platform..springboard off it for a shared 8 took its time to get a user will windows 10...but its no can be seen from the preview pumped up for the future of windows...
  • Finally, some language I can understand. Clearly, Paul Thurrott pulled Satya aside and said, "You need to clean this mess up." lol Anyway, it's good news for sure... but they still need to fix the Music app. After three years, it still effs up the playlists I made in WMP & still doesn't load all songs, etc. I'm still stuck using an old WP7 as a media player because Xbox Music app is so bad. Microsoft REALLY needs to fix this or I'm leaving the platform.
  • Thurott is a clown. He isn't even involved in anything important. All he does anymore is whine and complain
  • Paul Thurrott seems to have pulled a T. Warren and bashes windows phone frequently. He's pushed me away from his site. It's one thing to point out areas that need improving, critiquing, the OS, but to joint all the anti Microsoft Tech sites and join in on the windows phone is dead parade when your site is supposedly dedicated to Microsoft news. I wouldn't mind him saying it if he got it from a reliable source inside of Microsoft, but to simply join in on unsubstantiated hear say is simply garbage.
  • Yeah, he's been spending the past week proclaiming Windows Phone to be dead, and saying the two flagships coming this year are going to be the last and are just "gestures for fans". I told him it seems like a pretty expensive gesture to develop and release two flagships while also developing and releasing Windows 10 Mobile. He responded by saying Satya's email last week was clear as day. I told him nothing Satya says is ever clear. It's always cryptic. Now it seems like he is wrong, which is good. That said, I don't like what Satya said about relying on OEMs and then, if they don't step up, Microsoft will. If that happens, it'll be too late. You can't take a year or two off and then try to relaunch a brand of phones. You have to build continuously. The OEMs have already failed Microsoft. They need to do this themselves and force the OEMs to jump in (just like they did with the Surface).
  • Even if the OEMs don't step up as MS expects them, the Lumia brand will have plenty of models for the users to choose from. And even if they step up, the Lumia phones will still make most of the WP share.
  • I think you misinterpreted what he said. Microsoft is making these phone anyway. They are just narrowing they offerings down to three categories: Budget phones, enterprise phones, and flagship phones with two sizes in each category: L & XL which calculates to six devices/year. Is OEM's join in, their will be more, if not, there will be the base offering of six by Microsoft plain and simple!
  • Exactly... How are those Band OEM's doing...
  • It will not be "too late". If Google and Apple can take 90% of the market with basically 2 devices then why can't MS just make 2-3 of their own devices? Far better than Nokia and their 20 different Lumias and the idiotic numbering system..
  • What are you talking about? Google don't have 80% share only with two phones. They have 1000+ phones. Apple has 13% share with 4/5 phones
  • I understood what MSFT was doing.  I also know they can screw it up.  We shall see how well Windows 10 rolls out.  We will see how well Windows Mobile rolls out.  We will see if the new phones are compelling.  Will will see If INTC can get its act together and release a chip that can power a flagship smartphone.  The language is to some extent meaningless unless the execution is good.
  • OEMs are too much into differentiation and bloatwares with different UI and hard to remove bloatwares. While Microsoft wants one unified and consistent UI. Microsoft does not want the corporate users to be confused with all these different UI that Android phones are currently offering. Hopefully Microsoft can beat these OEMs if it is too hard for the OEMs to join Windows mobile.
  • Last week I felt like to become trash to be dumped.  Now I feel like climbing to the top of the world.  If Satya had made these statement last week or even yesterday in WPC, things would be much less confusing.  Now I think that all the flagship phone owners should feel specially upbeat.  MS's strategy is shifting back to premium phones and focusing on W10 ecosystem and uniqueness.  W10 ecosystem, Continuum, Interactive Live Tiles and the cross platform Cortana would be the features that compatitors could never copy.  The four porting bridges will boost UW apps development tremendously.  The new strategy focus can boost the WP volume more efftectively than the old volume focused strategy which only produces whole bunch of cheap and boring phones.  You now know clearly why you are getting a W10M phone - UI efficiency, productivity, W10 compatibility and enhanced security.  You are virtually getting a pocket W10 PC with cell capability.
  • I understand how all the news and clickbait stuff could get you down. However I don't understand where people got all the gloomy headlines from last week's announcement.
  • Hey I feel you, but really this is all nerd talk. Seriously. People want to have their entertainment in their hands. Lunchtime, people watch their shows and movies. Break time, people walk with friends or listen to music and podcasts. Friend time (all day) people play games, go on Facebook, Instagram, texts, etc.... The solution is simple. Don't make a phone all about work. People fucking hate work!!!! Should Office, OneNote and all that be there HELL YEAH, but entertainment and connectivity are what people want from mobile. Pick it up, open the app, press play/post pic/comment, smile. Heck even the phone part is secondary on phones.
  • @twistedpopo:
    I still fail to see, where Nadella committed fully to Windows on phones. It does look like the next wave of Lumia devices will be announced around September/October 2015, but I for one never expected them to drop out of the mobile devices segment say maybe this year. But I always feared they might drop out starting a year from now, if their expectations aren't met and I couldn't find anything in Nadella's statements that's a mid- to longterm promise to keep Windows on phones.
    (And while I don't EXPECT them to drop out of Windows on phones in the coming weeks one should never forget that under Nadella's reign everything (negative) is possible. Please keep in mind that he gave the axe to highly anticipated devices right before their announcement (Lumia 1020 successor, Surface Mini).)
  • If the future is in mobile, why would they drop out..... Makes no sense because he knows Microsoft can't depend on OEM's like Samsung, Dell, HP, acer, etc because all of them are no longer putting all of their eggs in one basket (Windows); each of them have several Chromebooks, Android tablets, Linux boxes, etc. Although Microsoft is a software company, they cannot depend on that alone due to the free licensing model Google has;b if you haven't noticed Microsoft has also adopted an instance of free licensing which dramatically reduces their overall profits, so they have to invest in alternates hardware now to ensure new areas of income down the road; surface was the first hardware product of its kind because it was a computer made directly by Microsoft. He finally said what I've been saying and said it boldly to the point of calling out Google directly dating they wouldn't exist without Microsoft! I love it
  • Small correction.  If you make an android phone, you pay MSFT $5.  If you install Office on the phone you pay MSFT $4.  If you make a Windows Phone you pay MSFT$0.  Google may not get any money from OEMs.  However, they get a bunch of customers using Google apps.  MSFt has the correct business model for building a stronger presence in Mobile.  Now they just need a better product.  Maybe Windows 10 will be that product.
  • Honestly it's not mobile, it's phones. The company gets it on tablets, but I don't think they do on phones. Us nerds want to create and use and have a phone allow us to develop awesomeness from music to art to apps. The other 99.8% of the world wants to be entertained and for their devices to make that easier for them.
  • lol . me too
  • MSFT only needs 3 Lumia's a Budget, midrange, flagship thats it. and the flagship could be a Surface phone with intel.
  • Just step in now and don't wait for your OEMs to build them while you lose even more customer and dev support. Step in now, give us that Surface moment for phones. By the time you step in iOS and Android will gain even more market share.
  • It's tit for tat. Microsoft talks to LG, Samsung, HTC, etc. all the time about making devices. It's not "well stop making them, let's wait 12 months and see what happens." How much you want to bet that discussions have been held for months with these companies and making Windows 10 mobile devices already?
  • Of course they have. Good to hear that your sources (yes, reading between the lines more than I should probably :P ) indicate other major OEMs are already committed to releasing  W10M phones.
  • Daniel, I value your opinions, articles, etc, but if the discussion aren't around building quality devices, supporting them, and helping to encourage developers to bring their apps over then Microsoft doesn't have the luxury of waiting on the same companies that didn't care the first time around.
  • FWIW EVleaks tweeted last week he knows of already 6 new Windows phones. Since MS will have 2 flagship phones the other 4 should be OEM Windows phones...
  • He made that in reference to Nadella's announcments and comments, so that's probably number of Lumias in the pipeline he is aware of. But Nadella may decide to kill some of them, of course.
  • The question is why did they say that they are committed to making for the next 2 years making it sound like after 2 years it is a crap shoot if windows phone will exist. They really need to work on their communications. They should have made this statement from the beginning. We are committed to the one windows vision and the windows phone platform and will work aggressivley to get OEMs to make window phone devices so that we can eventually exit the handset market. If that doesn't happen we will continue the beautiful, quality devices that is associated with the Lumia name. If they did that, that wouldn't be getting all this negative press that they have been receiving for the last few days. How many people have read those articles and have now completely discounted windows phones because they think it is a dead platform?
  • Because currently they have phones planned out to release over the next two years. If the OEMs start making good WP devices available within the next year, then MS can start rolling back their device plans for 2018 to just build whatever is necessary to fill gaps in distribution, price tiers, or form factor.
  • They are releasing phones. There are 2 that will be launching soon. They are not stopping manufacturing them now, just scaling back so that others have a chance as well.
  • And possibly Intel phones next year.....yeah, that sounds like MS are giving up on phones lol
  • Ima gonna hold out for that x86 continuum phone, so I can finally replace my laptop. ;)  Give me an 8" or 10" Surface 3 type setup as a shell (just keyboard, touchpad, and screen with a big battery), and I can use continuum with it. Without the shell needing it's own processor and RAM and other circuitry, they can focus on putting in a much bigger battery that can also recharge the phone as it runs. I'm so ready for that scenario. I'm all about that one. Giving up on "what a smartphone currently means" is what Microsoft is really doing. They are going to completely replace the smartphone with something else. That's the next big thing. Talk about changing the game. Aim big, Microsoft, aim big. I like it.
  • You Sir/Madam articulate the article message perfectly.
  • so, essentially the asus padfone? don't think that sold very well, but if msoft can reinvent that idea and take it off, it could be successful. 
  • It probably didn't work too well because it was running an OS and apps that are designed for phone only.  Therefore, the bigger screen dock and keyboard end up being very limited by the software.  Windows 10 won't have those limitations.  Even the mobile version of Windows 10 and universal apps are designed for that type of useage.
  • @eeisner512 - Off topic...I went to Russian River Brewing Company a few weeks back and got the 20+ sampler, damn good! Took home a case of Pliny's, went thru them in a week. Definitely going back.
  • Exactly.  The world of "apps" is about to close out.  The devices are becoming powerful enough that cheapo games, dumbed down versions of desktop applications, and a variety of subdivisions of messaging are beneath them.  Sure, there are people for whom their whole experience of the 'net is through a phone, but right now it's the play-school (just to turn the usual slight against the tiled approach around) version.  The mobile device that's just as good as a netbook or laptop is coming, followed not long after by the mobile device that's nearly as good as a current gaming machine.  (Nearly because of limitations in heat dissipation and power consumption, mostly). I don't doubt Google and Apple sense this too, but to their credit, MS has been working on it for a while.
  • Since Asus uses Intel powered chips will they be interested in windows 10 mobile??
  • Read!
  • not gonna happen
    who cares,we just need Surface,Lumia,Xiaomi(currently have a rom for Mi4 beta testers) and One Plus(was a rumour earlier,hope it happens) to support the platform
  • I'm sure Microsoft's Surface phone could be launched in 2016 with Intel CPU and all the benefits of running x86 software. The only thing I'm worried about running an Intel CPU on a phone are all the new emerging sensors for IoT industry which are used to get better GPS accuracy, detect pollution on food, health sensors, etc. I'm sure Microsoft has a plan for all these IoT developers to get working in Windows phone using new Android/iOS compilers, but about being cross platform is what I still not 100% sure.
  • Have you even read the interview, the mail Nadella sent out?   Microsoft _is_ stepping in and stepping up IMO.   They cut the strategy of building the (cheap) phones they can afford to build (like Nokia was doing in the end) and replaced it with a very clean and clear strategy which makes sense. Define your markets (consumer, prosumer and enterprise) and build a phone in each segment, possibly in a 'regular' and 'XL' variant for each with same electronics, but different screen size.   This all makes perfect sense, set out and define your markets and provide 'leading' or 'flagship' phones for each. Then let OEMs fill in the blanks. It worked very well for tablets with Surface and I think it will work as well with phones, which really are smaller tablets that can make calls.   IMO the Windows 10 strategy comes together quite nicely right about now, I just hope Microsoft will not drop the ball on their weakest link, which is tell their story and sell their ideas.
  • Windows 10 was always the end game and with it on PC, Xbox, tablets, phones etc, what an awesome potential for Microsoft :)
  • I think he made it quite clear that they're not trying to get iOS and Android market share. They're not trying to copy anyone or beat anyone, they're aiming to become something else entirely.
  • MSFT wants to crush iOS and android.  That was very clear.  Why?  Because MSFT is talking about the health of the Windows Ecosystem.  If you build the strongest ecosystem you win by default.    In my opinion, Android is the weaker competitor.
  • Both iOS apps and Android apps can now be compiled in Windows phones, this is huge since means that all those emerging Internet of Things (IoT) apps can work on Microsoft's platform but better they can also be enhanced to work on HoloLens, Xbox One or PC (tablet, laptop, deskop, stick)
  • I agree they should make a Surface phone but it should be that intel phone coming next year
  • I like the spirit ...
  • I prefer Coca-Cola
  • He said spirit, not sprite.
  • This is why Microsoft is killing the Windows Phone. Yes... THIS VERY SPIRIT vs SPRITE CONVERSATION.
  • You guys are dead funny
  • Smells like a teen spirit.
  • Smells like teen sprite.
  • Tastes like teen Coca-Cola.
  • Da
  • yes, that's what we need to ear... those rats out there claming windows phone are dead should shut their mouth now!!! go for it MSFT.
  • +630, a hard slap on those idiots
  • F*** the naysayers and their conclusions, Microsoft knows what to do and they're doing it well. They're providing us with the awesomeness of Windows 10; if developers and OEMs don't come on board, that's their own problem and not Microsoft's.
  • "if developers and OEMs don't come on board, that's their own problem and not Microsoft's."... Errm.. well, this will actually be a problem on Microsoft's part too. But I don't see any reason why the developers shouldnt come up. If you ask me, the most important thing right now to do is to upgrade users from Windows 7 to 10 as much and as fast as possible. I really believe Windows 10 is luring enough to have people make the upgrade. Many developers still release Win32 apps instead of Windows/Universal apps because they know Windows 7/desktop users share the biggest pie of the market. Win32 apps can never be dead because they're the most powerful ones with rich APIs and capabilities, but with Windows 10 releasing, we should see much more Windows apps joining in.
  • There have been more than 200 million Windows 8 licenses purchased.  If that hasn't persuaded developers, why would 200+ million Windows 10 licenses persuade them.  That is the real question that needs to be asked.  
  • Windows 8 licenses refers to the desktop OS with its own store. Windows Phone 8 has a seeperate store, and that is the current problem.  Give all devices the same core to build apps on and the problem of development goes away.  Than it becomes developers seeing that it takes no additional effort to make that desktop app available on phones.  Take all of the desktops, laptops, and Lumia phones out there and tell me one developer who hasn't had a talk about supporting the platform.  They'd be stupid not to.
  • You are still running on the assumption that the a large userbase will draw developers in and of itself, and the empty Windows 8 store disproves it.  Look, I don't get it either.  It makes no sense that developers blame Windows Phone's small user base for ignoring it, while Windows 8 desktop user base is huge, and is still ignored by developers.  Until Microsoft gives a compelling reason to develop for W10, there won't be much to trickle down to W10 mobile. Lets not forget that the Windows Phone app store already has more apps than W8 desktop store. The big draw of Universal Apps is a larger user base, which Windows already had with Windows 8.  So what's different Now?  
  • That is not entirely correct.  A desktop App should have greater capabilities.  If your phone app does not need all the power of a desktop, why windows?  Maybe you could argue that with Windows, you can always expand the apps capabilities by allowing the user the greater power of the desktop.  Do you really want to setup and customize an app on the phone screen.  Or would you rather do this on your laptop/desktop?  Now most people do this through a web page.  Now windows allows you to do this on a app that you can configure specifically to your needs to provide a unified experience from desktop to mobile to phone.    Will app users pay more for the app for this better experience.  will you sell more Pro services?  Can you sell more ads with a Windows Universal App.  In short, does Windows 10 provide the app developer a road to greater revenue for less work?
  • What "capabilities" do today's most profitable apps need? Spotify needs speakers, user input interface, and an internet connection. Most of the most important software launched in the last 5 years have very few hardware demands. And that's a good thing. The draw of desktop should be users, not a faster CPU, as that is only beneficial for very few things.  
  • English pleeeease.....what on earth is an API
  • "API, an abbreviation of application program interface, is a set of routines, protocols, and tools for building software applications. The API specifies how software components should interact and APIs are used when programming graphical user interface (GUI) components." -Wikipedia I hope that clears what API is.  
  • A more crude expalnation is all cars and trucks must be no more than 12 feet wide and 18 feet tall.  Why, because if your truck is taller, you will hit a bridge.  If your truck is wider, it will run off the edge of the road.  The API tells the app develper how to communicate with the operating system, which in turn talks to the hardware.  You want the software to know that if the hardware senses a touch on the screen, that means my end call button was pushed.
  • Windows Phone is dead outside the states. Here in Europe they almost don't sell windows phones anymore.
  • You forgot the "/s".
  • Except if anything, it's the other way round? Windows Phones are at around 10% marketshare in Europe, which is much higher than the US. Please get your facts right.
  • Yeap, if they manage to get at least 9/10 percent at the US with this Windows 10 approach then its done.
  • Igge pronounced Ugh
  • what??? they never sell as much as now in europe... get your facts right mate! maybe you should say wp does not sell in the US, that is true
  • Oh really troll, wp has above 10% market share in Europe
  • Maybe it's just in Scandinavia then. I have been searching for a 930 or 830 for very long time now but the stores here don't sell them anymore because it's to low demand. Sure, I can go to a regular store and buy a 530 but more advanced then so it don't gets. I have been to Mediamarkt, Elgiganten, The phone house, Comviq, Halebop, telia all I can find is Lumia 530.
  • You might want to try online stores then.  I am using a 930 in the US, and I bought it off of Ebay.
  • Then you need glasses. For example  
  • This should tell you that the OEMs and MSFT are burning off inventory of "old" phone designs and building inventory of "new" phone designs that will be released in the next month or so.  They did not fire Elop because he was do a great job.  He was fired because he was not executing the plan.
  • They are beating iphone in several European markets. you have iot backwards. In the state, the phones are subsidized or the price of the phone is wrapped into the monthly plans. People don't really realize how much extra they are actually paying for the previledge of owning an iphone. In europe, people buy their phones up front and the can see that windows phone offer an excellent value proposition.
  • Those 2 years contract plans in US will end up paying more than buying the phone at full price and pay for monthly service for 2 years. People don't see that.
  • My son and wife are complaining that their 2 1/2 year old iPhone 5 are not working well (battery freezing etc...).  I told my son that I was not renewing my contract with Verizon.  But he said he could not afford to buy a new iPhone retail?  I said then buy a different phone.  He did not like my response.
  • Did the guy at your carrier's store tell you that? Windows phone is more popular over all in Europe, though that doesn't mean you can find them in every store, or that the salesperson is as well incentivised to sell one versus an iPhone or Samsung.
  • So if OEMs build Windows Phones, Microsoft won't. Basically what he says is that Microsoft is not committed to Windows Phones but to mobile computing only. Burning platform.  
  • Wow you really tend to focus on the negatives
  • No, Microsoft will make, but they will make five/six phones per year
  • Ummm... How many phones Google makes a year?
  • "Basically what he says is that Microsoft is not committed to Windows Phones but to mobile computing only. Burning platform."
    Guessing you don't know how the PC business works or what Microsoft did with the Surface. It's okay, you can read up on it sometime.
  • Yeah. I know how the PC business works: PC sales are - once again - 16% down year over year. And Microsoft had a brilliant 8% adaption rate for Windows 8.1 within 1.5 years. Seems like it's really going well!
  • Windows is still the most popular OS on any computer by a long stretch, and Windows 10 is free, so the adoption rate will be way stronger and faster than any previous Windows OS. Windows phones will still be made, with premium ones to go along with it. Stop your crying and jump onboard. Posted from the Nexus 6, Nexus 5, or Surface Pro 3
  • You should check your numbers again. Microsoft is currently in third spot when you combine PC sales, tablet sales and smartphones sales when it comes to OS marketshare. To put it into more perspective: In Q2/2015 about 65 million PCs were sold worldwide (and that number even includes more than five million Mac). But 500 million Android and iOS devices got sold during the same period of time. So iOS and Android devices are outselling Windows computers and smartphones by a factor 7 currently. As I said: Burning platform.
  • You are conflating things and smarpthones are not the end-all, be all in computing. People still do use desktop and laptop computers. They have not gone away, there are just more computing options. Fact is, iOS is not a computing or enterprise platform, it does not compete with Windows 10. You also make no mention of enterprise and business, which Microsoft still has a massive presence, something for which Apple does not. Regardless, how is Microsoft merging across all platforms (mobile, PC, gaming, holographic) a bad thing or signs of a burning platform? Android has no desktop, not really with Chrome and OSX and iOS are still too far apart. What happens when you combine Xbox One, Windows 7/8 pcs, new tablets, new phones, new PCs into the mix?
  • It's a well known fact that the PC business is collapsing rapidly. On the other hand Apple (with OS X) is the only PC brand that is currently heavily gaining marketshare (more than 15% year over year in Q2/15). And if you want to include all other Windows devices: Okay, let's do it: * 60 million Windows PCs (in Q2/15)
    * 60 million Windows tablets (in Q2/15, unrealisitic but let's be fair because there is no real data available)
    * 15 million Xbox One/Xbox 360 sales (lifetime! But hey: let's be fair and assume they're selling that per quarter)
    * 10 million Windows Phones (in Q2/15)
    * 20 million Halo Lense (ok, not available, but again: let's be fair!) >>>Total number of "Windows devices": 165 million per quarter iOS and Android devices per quarter: 500 million So even when you include unrealistic tablet numbers and not even released products: Android and iOS are still outselling the Windows platform by a factor of 3. BTW: Microsoft is aiming for one billion Windows 10 devices within 2-3 years. That's about 500 million each year or 125 million devices each quarter. So the 165 million devices that we just calculated above are already more than the number of devices that Microsoft is actually aiming for. But hey: "It's okay. You can read up on it sometimes.
  • Ha ha troll, good try but you are not smart.
  • Can't tell if you're delusional or just really bad at trolling. Let's look at some real numbers.
    According to Gartner 68.4 million PCs sold in Q2 2015. Minus the 4.5 million Macs sold during the period, that leaves 63.9M PCs.
    That's a drop of 9.5% not your claimed 16% YoY
    Apple sold 61 Million iPhones in Q2 along with 12.6M iPads (down 22%) and 4.5M Macs for a totla of 78.1M devices. Compare that to Windows device totals: 63.9M PC + 10.5M Lumias + ~1.7M OEM WPs (based on 10.5M Lumias @90% marketshare) and you get 76.1 Million devices in the same categories.  This equates to little more than a rounding error. Now add in 6 Million XBoxes and countless numbers of PoS systems, ATMs, medical devices, etc. and the only thing that is burning is your irrational hate of Microsoft. (Show me on the doll where Satya touched you). Now Android is a little more complicated to calculate, but to get to the 500 Million iOS/Android number that you pulled out of your crack pipe it would need to be more than 420 Million units or 6.5 times iPhones, iPads & Macs combined. (and considering IDC estimated about 320M smartphones shipped in Q2, not possible) But if we look at the Lumia of the Android world; Samsung, while they haven't reported Q2 earnings yet, in Q1 they reported 81M smartphone sales. Their Q2 guidence is ~4% down which would be ~78 million. Looks like a three horse race to an objective viewer.      
  • UPDATE: Using your number from below. ~5M tablets/quarter need to be added to the Windows side. That puts us at: Windows: 63.9M PC + 10.5M Lumias + ~1.7M OEM WPs + 5M Tablets = 81.1 million/quarter Apple: iPhone, iPad, Mac 78.1 million/quarter Samsung Android: ~78-80 million/quarter. Windows install base (PCs in the wild running Windows) is estimated to be over 1.6 billion or 18.75 quarters worth (4.7 years) of Apple or Samsung's Andriod sales. Free upgrades are being offered to over 50% of that billion and-a-half market. If half of those people take advantage of the offer (~400 million PCs) in the first year, that puts Windows 10 (and devices that can run Universal Apps) at ~180 million devices/quarter. You read that right: The number of people that developers could sell Windows 10 Universal Apps to, could be more than double that of iOS or Samsung's Android devices over the next year.  
  • Data without meaning or context is irrelevant - Fact remains that Apple have no intention of going after the 95% domination of Windows OS in the business environment.  Enterprise updates hardware at a slow pace, with the launch of W10 the sales of PC's will take a big jump over the next 12 months (be they desktop, laptop, hybrid, tablet) as companies running old hardware and XP/Windows 7 jump on board, why would they do this? well W10 is everthing Enterprise has been wanting, MS have listened and they didnt do the stupid thing they did with Windows 8 which completely alienated Windows 7 users even though 8.1 is like useing a different OS, the damage had been done.  I own a company and used to be all in with Apple, then tried Android (i was one of the 'hate MS' crowd) and then finally switched to MS and life is good, everything works and works well, W10 will be even better.  With no W11 its only a matter of time before the 95% are using W10- that means 95% of enterprise favouring and promotng Windows devices to thier employees (BYOD works to a degree but IT departments want an easy life) laptops, hybrids and phones.
  • "You also make no mention of enterprise and business, which Microsoft still has a massive presence, something for which Apple does not" If we talk about mobile devices in enterprise though, Apple completely dominates that segment. 
  • That's what you are basing your reasoning on? Windows is a burning platform because other companies have sold more (not to mention your comparison is ridiculous and outlandish. Your combining 3 product categories that shouldn't even compared to determine that the company is "burning away")? Here's what your not understanding: the Windows platform is still strong regardless if they have had a rough couple years. Windows 10 is without a doubt going to make the platform even stronger.
    Nadella just promised all you people new Windows phones. The best days of Microsoft are ahead, and yet, you still find a reason to cry and complain! If you don't like it, go get you an iPhone, and live happily ever after. Posted from the Nexus 6, Nexus 5, or Surface Pro 3
  • Yea, like the Nokia Symbian platform was still strong (with about 35% smartphone marketshare) in 2011 "regardless if they have had a rough couple years". /s
  • Your touting off numbers trying to sound smart to everyone and the reality is, you're just another armchair analyst that's just as much a dumbass as the last.
  • and you are comparing windows to android+ios , fare comparision.
  • In addition to what Dan mentioned, you're also forgetting that sales =/= use. I bought one pc four years ago for my wife, and one for me. Since then, between us, we've purchased maybe eight or nine smartphones? And I'll probably buy another one in a few months. Maybe one for the wife as well.
    Meanwhile, I currently use one smartphone, as does my wife, the rest are in boxes somewhere. The same is true for most people, smartphones are bought, replaced and thrown away, if they're not crushed, lost, or dropped in the toilet first.
  • Windows isn't the most popular OS.  It's the most prolific, and that comes through partnering through OEMs and the fact that their competitors, like Apple, do not license out thier OS - at all.  Most people do not care enough about what OS their PC is running for it to be "popular," and among those people who care about these things - other options are more popular; just not as prolific. Prolific != popular. I sent an old Windows laptop back to my Mom with Ubuntu installed on it.  She used it, and basically never really thought about it because she never really cared or even noticed what the PC was running before hand.  She just used it.  She didn't realize it was Linux until I told her I changed the OS!
  • PC figures tend to not include tablets like the Surface so they do not represent what is truly happening in the market place. Windows 8/8.1 and Windows 7 users will move to Windows 10 and the picture will look totally different then. Also, Windows 10 will come to the Xbox, phones and tablets which will result in so many users that only a fool would ignore!
  • Ok, let's assume that PC sales don't include tablet numbers. So let's just double the PC sales numbers to also include the Windows tablets (of course that's totally unrealistic). Then we don't have 60 million Windows PCs but 120 million Windows PCs each quarter. So even when you double the PC sales: Android and iOS are still outstelling Windows by a factor of 4.
  • I did not mention Microsoft competing with iOS and Android. I said that Windows across PC's, Tablets, Phones, Xbox etc will be a market that can not be ignored by OEM's and developers etc.
  • You're throing numbers out without any rational explination. A person doesn't buy a PC as often as they buy a cell phone. PC sales means nothing about the actual install base of the product you're talking about. a million people could buy iPhones tomorrow, that doesn't mean there are 1 million more people using iOS.
  • Ah, people are not buying PCs as often as phones... So why is Apple the only PC vendor then that is currently heavily gaining marketshare (more than 15% year over year in Q2/15). And we're speaking about ultra-expensive Macs in the >1000USD range here. So obviously people are still interested in desktop-computers. Shouldn't Asus or Acer be successfull with their much cheaper Windows-PCs then? But hey, Asus is down 10% and Acer is even down 20% year over year. Oh, and if we're talking about install-base: Then developers should only do Win32 programs because undoubtly there are a lot more Win32 compatible PCs out there than "Windows Universal Apps" compatible ones.
  • Because, people's are waiting for windows 10
  • I believe that Apple has 4% market share in PC users. So 15% growth is still a tiny amount compared to the 91% of PC users on Windows. Again, PC sales are declining but tablet and even laptop sales are excluded in by analysis of market share, so without quoting the exact figures and what they include/exclude is misleading.
  • Apple has 8% marketshare worldwide and 13% marketshare in the US.  But because you're still pretending that the 60-million-PCs-number is totally wrong: Let's have a closer look at the IDC numbers. From the press release: "PCs include Desktops, Portables, Ultraslim Notebooks, Chromebooks, and Workstations and do not include handhelds and Tablets". Phones (handhelds) are not included, but we all know that number for Windows: 10 million. So only tablets are excluded but as I calculated above: Even if you assume that 60 million Windows tablets get sold (same amount as total PCs!) then Microsoft still gets outsold by a factor of 4.
  • Try this site for OS usage, just select it at the top...
  • trolling. u r comparing sale no of iphones+android  to pcs. and when it  comes to mac os u r taking about percentage. why don't u tell actuall no of macs being sold. 
  • they are buying macs and installing windows in it.
  • As i pointed out in reply to one of your posts above, your numbers are way off. Mac sales are up by 10% YoY not 15%. Also:
    Oh, and if we're talking about install-base: Then developers should only do Win32 programs because undoubtly there are a lot more Win32 compatible PCs out there than "Windows Universal Apps" compatible ones.
    This was one of the major problems with Windows 8/8.1. Low adoption made it more lucritive for developers to make Win32 programs than "Modern" apps. MS is trying to solve the chicken/egg problem with free "chickens" so the "eggs" finally will be produced. Which in turn enhanced future adoption. MS's gamble is enough people opting for the free upgrade, which puts Universal Apps in front of potentially more users. If it goes well (30% adoptopn in first 18 month) The apps will come. If it goes like Win 8, well not so much.  
  • Why are people buying expensive Macs? Macs are like new sneakers or jewelry. They're great for impressing your friends, and letting everyone know that you have more money (or at least spend more) than they do. But they're not so useful. So yeah, people with Macs buy them more often than people who have Windows, because Windows just works, and isn't as much of a fashion statement. Those of us who own Windows machines can save our money to buy sneakers, or sports cars, or jewelry, if we want to make an obnoxious statement.
  • True, I have like 10 phones. Does that make me 10 users?
  • 60% of all net usage is still on PCs. Ask facebook, google, amazon, yahoo, aol ect. what their revenues would look like if every PC didn't turn on for 2-3 weeks. PCs are a replacement market like TVs and microwaves, you replace one when it breaks. Unless your a hardcore PC gamer or do video/audio editing why do you need to replace your pc <5-8 years? Meanwhile phones get replaced every 2 years. BTW. IDC expects traditional PC sales to decline 10-15M, while they expect 2 in 1s to double to 20M in sales this year. They both run full Windows but are counted in different categories.
  • And there we finally have a number: 20 million tablets need to be included (per year). So about 5 million tablets each quarter. Let's calculate the total number of sold Windows PCs, Windows tablets and Windows Phones per quarter: 60M+5M+10M = 75M. So Microsoft gets outsold by a factor of 6.6. Every quarter. Burning platform.
  • Just give it up guy. You're making up numbers at this point.
  • I pray to god that you quit smoking whatever shit you smoked up before posting such ridiculously funny comments. Died laughing at your analysis.
  • The old mistake of separating computer form factors into separate, incompatible markets.
  • What is considered a Pc is changing these days.  I would call a Surface a PC because it stand for Personal Computer, and Surface tablets run dekstop CPUs.  The market is evolving, but yes traditional desktop sales are declining right now.
  • Im not following your logic. Why would Microsoft make phones if their OEMs are going to? Please explain.
  • Following the Surface strategy they will not cover all requirements in the mobile arena but make high profile reference models only.
  • Off course they will but less frequent, as they want to give space to other OEMs az well.
  • He's saying Microsoft will make their phones either way.
  • "if there are a lot of OEMs, we'll have one strategy. If there are no OEMs, we'll have one strategy." Seems pretty clear from that quote they will keep making phones no matter what
  • If OEM build windows phone, Microsoft doesn't have to. Does microsoft have to build PCs? No it doesn't. They only made the surface because the OEMs weren't committed to making the type of hybrid devices that windows 8 was designed to run on. Does google need to make android phones? no it doesn't. They just outsource the manufacture of Nexus devices to show case what pure android look like. What he said is that they are committed to the windows phone platform. If OEMs don't show up, they will continue making phones. Simple fact is that they need phones to make their one windows vision work.
  • If then, no need.
  • You deserve to be slapped. I will slap you silly if no one else comes to slap you. If others also find that you need to be slapped silly as well, that's cool with me. I'll still slap you for not understanding, while the others will also have ample opportunity to slap you in between my slaps. I won't stop slapping you regardless if there are a hundred other people wanting to slap you. I will just slap you less and let everyone else take the lead in this slap-fest. That's the analogy.
  • Of course they will :)
  • Yup, this interview is somewhat comforting. Hope MS has already secured a few OEM deals. Hmm. Not sure about having Surface branded phones AND Lumia branded ones. I personally tend to think they should stick to the Lumia brand. His response on the business segment seems to imply they may not be specific devices/hardware - more about apps/security etc. Much like I had assumed it would be (more than e..g some specific form factor for business). "This mobile approach is the very same as the Surface one to bootstrap PC and two-in-one device manufacturing and sales. I think at this time, this is the right approach too." As Foley points out, the situation is somewhat different though in that in tablets there are and were many other OEMs in the market and MS's share was/remains fairly small. In phones, there basically are no OEM majors in the game and MS is almost 100% of the market. Fortunately MS has a wide portfolio of Lumias and global presence - I just hope Nadella does not pair that down too quickly/drastically before other OEMs start to pick up.
  • OEMs and developers better step up. Also, great answer from Nadella about continuum. They're not trying to go after Android and iOS, they're innovating on their own terms. Which is great!
  • Yes
  • Surface phone confirmed 2016
  • Yes! That's what I got out of that last lil bit also.
  • They will again take negatives from it... What if that happens.. this happens..
  • Preach.
  • The verge website has said windows 10 was made free to help windows phone... But comments were not opened up.. For "Is it the end of windows phone" article comments were opened ..
  • They write articles and headlines like that on purpose. They are called click bait and attracts more users to their sites increasing revenue. Who cares about the affect it'll have on public perception. That's media for you and unfortunately that's the world we live in.
  • Like a Boss!!! They Have to and They Need to Make smartphones.
  • No, they aren't going to make "smartphones". They're making "Smarter Phones" with Windows 10 and Continuum. ;) It's the "next big thing after smart phones" which is the market they are going to corner. I'd say in 3 to 5 years, smart phones are going to be looked at the way a flip phone is today. It will still have a place, but will be on the low end of sales and used by the few who refuse to embrace newer tech. Give it 20 years, and we'll have something to use for computing and communication that we haven't even thought of yet. I think whatever it is, it will use the same type of idea that is Windows 10, where you have a single OS for everything. Look at Star Trek. All the ships in the federation run on the same OS, as do all their little tablets, workstations, holodecks, communicators, everything. The OS running a space station is the same one running a personal tablet or workstation, and the same one running the ship wide computer. We'll have an OS that runs our home automation, communications, TV/movie entertainment system (whatever that will be in 20 years), workstations (whatever form that takes), etc. Constantly predicting what the next big thing is will make Microsoft strong in the long run. Apple isn't innovating, they are just trying to polish up an existing product into something more fashionable - Apple Watch. While the watch is nice, it looks nice, it performs well (except for the battery), it doesn't really bring anything new. The scroll wheel came on a IBM watch 14 years ago with the same circular icons, except that one was a black and white LED only, and larger.  
  • A much needed speech to shut the mouth of naive writers writing articles like "WP is dead" on various blogs these days. And of course, they won't publish this.
  • It is dead whether Microsoft makes phones or not. With >3% market share and declining, it is basically dead. When the new phones launch, it will be at the same time as the Note 5 and iPhone 6S which will massively overshadow them. There is a reason Nokia stopped making high end phones. Windows cannot compete in the segment. This new strategy will certainly decrease market share even further. The only reason they even get 2% is the current selling phones cost $500? Sales are not going to increase. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Um.. Nokia stopped making phones because Microsoft had begun the acquisition process. They're re-entering the smartphone business now, but back then they had no plans for mobile when Microsoft had started buying them. They didn't quit because they thought Windows couldn't compete.
  • Choosing Windows as the Os was the biggest mistake of Nokia..If they chose Android, we could have seen different stories..
  • Well you'd better hop into my new time machine and go back to just before Elop took charge!!! I mean with your knowledge, you must be CEO-material or something... Right....?
  • You don't have to be a Ceo for an assumption..Samsung took the place of Nokia only because they have gone android and it is the most popular OS..Windows phone is dead anyway, otherwise even after 5 years it wont stuck at 3%..
  • Microsoft is doing great job. W10m is really awesome. But Microsoft need to focus on their marketing strategy
  • Excellent interview. The right questions and the right answers. Let's see what Microsoft has in store for Windows Mobile. This time we won't have to wait too long.
  • I smells Surface phone....
  • I always wanted those freaking apps on a desktop so you better bring them on developers, developers, developers !
  • Intel Powered Windows 10 Mobile? Fuck yeah.. Hope it has the same specs as the Lumia 940XL(except for the chipset of course) and with pen support hopefully. Since the 940XL doesn't seem to have it.
  • Hope to see continuum incorporated into the enterprise (mid range) devices, for those that need the functionality without fancy image processing etc etc.
  • I'm hoping for that too. Maybe Lumia 840?
  • Holy crap!! Intel phone with continuum? Put a 1020 class camera in there and im 100% in!!!
  • Yeah, Intel phone with continuum, 1020 class camera, pen support, 6" screen, and Desktop mode for running my old 32-bit x86 programs! Like some GOG games. That could be nice.
  • *heavy breathing*
  • Pen!  Yes!  Totally forgot about that feature.  Though the surface pro 3 pen does work on my 1020.  But native support with pressure would be much nicer.  I guess Force Touch is Apple's answer to MS's pen strategy.
  • He said some very interesting things in that interview and most of them makes sense. But focusing too much on Continuum will be a huge mistake. There is still not a single benefit of having Continuum on a phone. You need 1) a more expensive premium phone 2) a monitor and input peripherals 3) adapters wired or wireless and what you get is a single device that can't run full desktop apps (yet?). Now that everything is in the cloud and synchronized it makes more sense for large enterprises to simply have dedicated desktops where the user can log in and take all his apps and files with them. Continuum is a cool technology looking for a problem.
  • Honestly, for now my guess is Continuum will be (a) premium and power users and (b) for Enterprise. That's fine, that is how all cutting edge tech starts before it trickles down. Still, the idea of transformative computing is interesting, exciting and possibly the one big area in which Microsoft can truly differentiate from the pack. Remains to be seen, of course. But better than just "making another smartphone".
  • Differenciation is good. But people refered to Windows Phone as a platform that tried to be too different already. I think you did write about this earlier as well regarding the UI design. I work for different companies (small and large) and as much as I love new technology, I can't think of any scenario where Continuum makes sense from a business perspective. Buying monitors and peripherels that are useless without a compatible phone makes no sense if you can get a x86 tablet for $99 already that can do the same and more already *additionally* to my phone and has input and output built-in or the ability to use external monitors. Two devices for less money with more capabilities. As I said, Continuum does not offer one single advantage. What Microsoft needs is not another niche product for Windows Phone. It did not worked out well with their "low only" strategy and it will not work with a focused business strategy IMO. They need one or two Lumia devices for "real people", for everyone. Current models have too many compromises, you still can't get every feature in one single Lumia device.
  • If I walked in to a room that has a TV utilizing miracast all I would need to do is pull out my fold up bluetooth keyboard and connect to the display wirelessly.  Boom!  I can do whatever I want and the room can still be utilized for other function with a dedicated computer always attached to the monitor.  It's nice that you work for large and small business, but I work for a university and it already has rooms that would make this technology work right now.  And why spend money on tablets, phones, and laptops for your employess when you cand spend a single amount on one device, presumably the size of a phablet, that will have all the functionality?   I agree with Daniel.  This may not be for everyone right out of the gate, but this is the one truly differentiating factor that MS has to make them stand out from the big two.
  • What you mean with "all the functionality"? We are far from having phones that could run complex x86 programs. The demoed early version of Continuum can't even run 2 apps side by side. Yes, there will be single senarios where this may work, but more than 3% of the phone market? No. But to be clear, I'm not against Continuum. I'm against a strategy that seems to almost only focus on that, according to the interview with Nadella.
  • I totally agree with you. I believe that there may be a time, in the future, where the idea that commenters have of "C********" (I can't even type it, so sick of seeing it) is realistic, but right now there is no need. It would be cheaper/easier to have an actual keyboard and small PC attached to my TV, than to have a phone and inputs to screencast. Not to mentiont that with separate devices I can use the TV and phone separately. I'm honestly so sick of hearing about that feature that I just downvote any comments that focus on it as some type of savior of WP. It's neat. But it's not needed. What WP needs to thrive is mostly feature parity to Android and iPhone, better keyboard across apps, better notifications, etc. It also needs OEMs and developers to get on board, and MS to fully support all the functionality that WP has, instead of dropping features with every new update.
  • Ultrabooks can not run complex x86 programs. They can not run games either. But business doesn't care about those...
  • I think the key is keep working on continuum as wireless display technologies evolve. Like we have seen in Microsoft concepts before if your phone was aware of displays around it and apps could seamlessly transfer between them we could see some amazing features.
  • Do you have any idea how big the market is for a device which is a phone but when you add KVM it basically becomes a full blown PC..   HUGE   And so far untapped, Windows is first to market here and if they play this right they will grab the whole thing before anyone else can get their hands on it. It took Apple THREE years to copy split screen as it was introduced in Windows 8. The screen mirroring which you get with iOS or Android is nothing like what Continuum offers. The potential here is gigantic. I think Microsoft has found their killer application and tech and now need to play this right to leapfrog ahead using this technology.
  • I don't think this is the case at all. Development and web design is moving toward mobile devices, resolutions, and functionality. People want mobility and convenience, not going backwards to being tethered to a desktop usage scenario.    How is Continuum going to make a difference to a kid that chats, texts, and video calls constantly? Or to anyone wondering why their using a keyboard and mouse to navigate a touchscreen app that was easier to use on their large screen phone?
  • Of course Continuum does not apply to "kids that chat, text, and video call..."  That is not the point of it.  Continuum is for people that need to get real work done and require a desktop experience with tons of screen real estate and input/output options.  The prospect of being able to get this combined with the portability of a mobile phone is HUGE.   Continuum + Universal Apps = The Future.
  • To get 'real work done', one needs to be able to run real(x86) applications.
  • You think that kid doesn't want to play a game on big screen with real controler chat is snapped to the right and accept voice input? Think again...
  • You really seem to get blinded by the technology. How would you sell a large company the idea that they would have to buy peripherals that can't be used without compatible (and maybe expenside) phone hardware and adapters? And as of now, Continuum does not offer any additional features. It only offers different in- and outfut. The universal apps already run on the phone. It is basivally just a larger monitor and maybe a more effective UI but the CPU is the same, battery is the same and so on.
  • "Imagine, all the convenience of a phone, except you're tethered to the wall, with a full-sized keyboard and the added luxury of a touchpad or mouse. Oh, and you'll need to ditch your old phone for this to work. Also you'll be limited to just using office for now, but more apps are coming!*" *More apps may not be coming.
  • "There is still not a single benefit of having Continuum on a phone. You need 1) a more expensive premium phone 2) a monitor and input peripherals 3) adapters wired or wireless and what you get is a single device that can't run full desktop apps (yet?)." Here's the thing: The Intel powered phones are coming next year, according to Satya Nadella. It's an easy choice for a person who has to have a good computer for school. A Flagship Intel phone, monitor, and input peripherals can very easily fall into the same price range as a desktop system, except now you have a phone as well, and with that, portability that we've never had before. When people have to make the choice between shelling out for a computer and settling for a lower end phone, or getting the flagship with continuum, the choice will be easy. I think Microsoft has done a good job of thinking this through.
  • I don't know that Satya said intel phones are coming as there is nothing in the actual interview transcript about Intel chips.
  • Satya never said Intel. Also Intel mobile offers a poorer experience overall vs. ARM with mobile OSes. Continuum will only work with limited 'universal' apps that have compatibility built in. No one wants Continuum. There is no market push for it. For the developed world, and increasingly for the developing world, buying a higher-perfomance notebook or desktop with a built-in keyboard and monitor is easy. Also, you get the benefit of software compatibility and having two separate devices. When people have to choose either using a phone with poorer battery life and a desktop with terrible performance, very limited software support, and only using one or the other, or buying a cheaper, better phone, and a cheaper, better desktop/notebook, the choice will continue to be easy. I think Microsoft is not betting too heavily on Continuum being something people want.
  • There is still not a single benefit of having Continuum on a phone.
    This is your opinion.  I would pay premium for a phone that doubles as a PC.  A lot of people would.  And it would save money and space to boot.
  • Here are a couple where I think Conitnuum would come in handy: -The guy that flys all over the place giving presentations. Having PowerPoint in the phone, he can edit there, edit when docked to a larger monitor, and present with the Miracast-enabled projector (or cabled with micro HDMI). -The guy that lives on email. You know that guy, the bulkload of his work is via email. Docked in the office, undocked on the road. -Video conferencing, by connecting to a Miracast enabled TV/projector at a client site. -Excel is much easier to work with in a traditional computing sense with keybaord, mouse and monitor. -Field data collectors would punch in data with photos on the field and complete their reports when docked. Bonus for field guys is that they're already carrying a phone for contact and it has GPS for navigation and geotagging photos. -Conference call in a group setting with the speakerphone while being connected to a screen displaying a group whiteboard/notes. Well, that's what I've got so far. It won't replace people's computers for sure, but there's a good chance it can replace those ultra-light notebooks some are carrying around.
  • Intel powered phone that's gonna be great!
  • Nice article.  Nadella certainly has a vision of what will differeniate the Windows ecosystem from others. I think the real juicy part is at the end with the Intel-powered phones tidbit.
  • I have to wait until early next year to upgrade my pocket wants a Surface Phone in it please!!
  • Should be a good windows weekly today
  • Still they won't be convinced.. They are all iZombies..
  • I thought WW was on Wednesdays? Did they change something?
  • No idea
  • You are correct. Wednesdays.
  • What happens inside should not concern consumers, what matters is the end products.They know exactly what they are doing and in a way better than us.Long live Windows.Future is Windows.Hololens,Surface,Lumia and Xbox .
  • And band
  • I read the interview and the t made me felt like i was at the back of mj foley crying and satya was answering those questions while looking at me.
  • So that does that mean phones like the 735 are going to be stopped being made?
  • If MSFT builds for the budget sector, then hopefully they will be similar devices to 735 / 640 / 830. They can't be really really low end, can they?
  • Use Surface brand for Enterprise/Flagship phones, Lumia for low end.
  • Noh. It going to be Surface for high-end Enterprise(with X86 chips) and Lumia for Consumer Flagship and Lower end devices. Otherwise there will be some confusion as to which device runs Desktop apps and which won't.
  • Great analysis Daniel. And loved that news about Intel based phones. Surface phone. It is happening. It is happening.
  • Of course, what Nadella didn't mention was Microsoft shareholders and their will to keep wasting money on Windows Phone devices. If - as expected - OEMs still don't build WP devices, how long will Microsoft shareholders allow Nadella to waste money on first party devices that no one wants anyway?   What I take from this interview is nothing more than what's been said in the last weeks. Microsoft is giving Windows Phone one last chance with Windows Phone 10. When (or "if" if you believe in miracles) this again fails, Microsoft will just drop Windows Phone once and for all and concentrate on their software and services on the 2 major platforms.   As for "Universal apps"...yeah, it will depend a lot on developers. And it will still not at all guarantee that WP will have any of the apps consumers actually demand. Because the apps people want - Snapchat, Periscope, Instagram etc - are made with mobile-only in mind. They're not meant to be used on a PC or Xbox. And therefore developers will still have no reason to develop them for Windows 10. As it stands, I think Universal apps - and Windows Phone's - chances are within the enterprise. Not the consumer market. On enterprise Microsoft might stand a chance with Universal apps, Continuum etc. But on the consumer front, the battle was lost over a year ago. Which is why they might start actually thinking in ditching the entire Lumia line and branding enterprise phones with the Surface brand to go along the Surface hub and Surface tablets.
  • They can't really drop Windows Phone at this point because Windows as we know it will be a single OS that is scalable across all devices. It wouldn't make much sense to pull the plug on it now or in the future, especially when they themselves realize and actively promote mobile technology, which is heavily driven by smartphones.
  • They don't have to formally drop Windows Phone. Market obsolescence will do it for them. 
  • Yeah, Windows Phone and all smartphones will become obsolete. They will be replaced by Windows 10 Mobile devices. It's the future.
  • Except it won't. The Windows you'll be running on your PC will not be the same as the one on your phone until the moment you get phones with x64 and x84 constructions. And even so, the things you do on your phone, no matter how hard you may want to convince yourself of it, are not the same things you would do on a PC. There are core actions you do cross platform, sure, but the main PC experience simply can't be replicated on phones.
  • Well, if these Intel powered smartphones come to fruition, then that may change sooner than later. AMD has also been actively working on combining x86 and ARM architecture along with its APU designs. Whether or not MS chooses to stop producing smartphone hardware, I think Windows Phone, or rather Windows 10 Mobile, is here to stay.
  • "As for "Universal apps"...yeah, it will depend a lot on developers. And it will still not at all guarantee that WP will have any of the apps consumers actually demand. Because the apps people want - Snapchat, Periscope, Instagram etc - are made with mobile-only in mind. They're not meant to be used on a PC or Xbox. And therefore developers will still have no reason to develop them for Windows 10."   DING! DING! Exactly. So much development is mobile focused that trying to leverage a desktop app is pointless. I work for a huge home improvement retailer. The whole point of our Android and iOS apps are to bring the store experience to your phone. You can find what aisle and specific section of that aisle any product is on. There are also neat value-adds like a virtual level for quick DIY help and things like that. Our Windows Phone app is snickered at (internally, mind you), and is little more than a wrapper for our mobile web site. Why dedicate the resources to bring it to parity when there are so few WP users? Why would our developers care about HoloLens or being on a version of Windows we will likely not even update to in the near future? Nobody is bringing a laptop into our stores to shop. This is a disastrous strategy for consumer applications.   
  • "This is a disastrous strategy for consumer applications. "
    Disastrous is heavy-handed. Does it have weaknesses? Sure, as you point out, not all mobile apps will work on desktop. However, there are two points to this (1) it's about bootstrapping: it still can work for a lot of other apps, which will boost Windows Phone regardless, maybe not as much, but it will help (2) Companies can change their approach, especially since it is not crazy to think smartphones and PCs are merging You also left out, what is noted below Centennial (to convert existing Win32 applications into windows apps), Westminster (to convert web apps into windows apps), Islandwood (to convert iOS apps) and Astoria (to convert android apps) and the role they play. It's not all about UWP on its own.
  • The "Universal Bridge" technologies you mention may get developers to relent to "converting" some or even most of their apps to Windows 10 once. That's not the hard part. The hard part is keeping them engaged after that. Google and iOS have the sales momentum and active users in their stores to merit it. Windows 8.1 does not. Lumping Xbox and Phone and HoloLens users in there will not change this. That's why so many apps are rarely updated. There's barely any engagement. Windows 8.1 users are downloading less than a tenth of the number of apps per license that Android and iOS users are. Less than a TENTH of the competition! So we get a number of converted apps moved over, and they become the new "Comixology". Anything that breaks or APIs that stop working.....they have little to no incentive to fix them with so little engagement. Abandonware galore. 
  • In Windows 8.1 users don't use the store as much. That is the reason why they move the Start Menu back in Windows 10. Satya actually mentioned that in the interview. The Start screen in Windows 8 alienates the mouse/keyboard users. Windows 10 is fixing that.
  • Your app is a great example of having a universal app is a good thing. You create the app once for Windows 10 and you will reach far more users, since people tend to use their computers more often when they are home so they will use the app for online shopping. Best thing for your team is they develop the app once and it reaches multiple platforms and users. Now apps like Periscope and Snapchat are a different story, they thrive on a mobile device. I would like to use Instagram on my laptop at home since I can see my feed on a big screen.
  • I am also sceptical if developers see the Universal App Platform as something to reach more users. If they really care about the amount of users on desktop, they will build web apps for desktop and mobile apps for iOS and Android additionally so they can reach all of the desktop users (not just Windows 10) and reach 97% of the mobile users. But I think the UAP is the best Microsoft can do at this point.
  • "Nobody is bringing a laptop into our stores to shop." No, but I know of few stores that plan on keeping their doors open very long that don't want people to shop on their laptop from home.  Except for groceries, I do 90% of my shopping on line, from home, as do many people. "I work for a huge home improvement retailer." Obviously not for the app programming department, nor as an executive. If you did, I'd feel bad that this retailer has such bad foresight. I've got news for you. People don't show up at your store and then check to see if you've got something in stock using the phone app. They are going to check to see if you have it in stock before they leave home, and use a PC to check multiple stores to see who has the best pricing. That's just how it is. Your mobile app just keeps you from having to tell the shoppers, "It's on aisle 7" when they arrive. Otherwise, you'd have more customers interrupt your stocking of the shelves, etc. Haters gonna hate.
  • LOL at the thought that not catering to Windows 10/Continuum will in any way impact our bottom line.  If you're shopping at home, you use your desktop or laptop BROWSER, not an app. There's no advantage to a touchscreen app on a laptop or desktop environment, where people are more familiar with keyboard/mouse navigation. As there are (comparatively) few Windows mobile devices in active usage, it's no material impact to us or anyone else if we treat the platform like a red-headed stepchild.  There's plenty of foresight in our development planning. We have lots of backend stuff coming down the pike for full site, mobile, and apps. None of it is dependent on or specific to Windows 10. There's no reason it should be.   
  • ^^This. I have no use for apps from stores when I'm at home on the desktop PC shopping online. The browser is all I need. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Ditto..I always use the browser and not any app while using my laptop..
  • Saying there is no advantage of a touchscreen app is foolish.  I love browsing the web on my surface with the keyboard flipped back. Sites like home depot just plain suck for touch.  I'm FORCED to use a desktop or laptop to use the site, great way to skew perception of users :) I'm not a regular user. I have a very highend desktop multi monitor setup, a solid ultrabook, a surface pro 3, hp stream and multiple windows phones.  If i'm on my sofa, I want a good experience while shopping at home using whatever device is in my hands. Guess which device is in my hands most of the time, the SP3 with no keyboard!.  Not desiging a website that is responsive for screen size and touch friendly is just plain dumb at this point.  But what do I know, i'm just a web developer.  Focus on a good responsive web and not on platform specific apps.  I don't want your stupid app.  
  • You have a lot to say based upon a simple assumption that Windows phone will fail as a component of Windows 10.  That stands in stark contrast to your well-documented, equally simple assumption that Nokia will rise like a phoenix to recapture its former glory.   As a result, your "analysis" has a credibility gap stemming from your hateboy and fanboy perspectives.  Not that I'm really saying anything that hasn't already been said about your posts, but spouting negative assumptions is more commonly known as FUD.
  • Windows Phone has already failed, mate. I don't need to assume that. What I can assume is that Windows 10 will NOT ressurect it. We've been this path before. Windows Phone 8 would be the salvation. Windows Phone 8.1 would be it! And now it's Windows Phone 10 (or Windows 10 Mobile whatever you want to call it, the results don't change). There are a couple of things in Windows Phone 10 that may entice more developers in like Universal apps. But then there's a lot of things that simply won't justify it. Like the decreasing marketshare.   As for Nokia rising like a phoenix...well, that's not hard. I never said they would recapture their former glory, though, and I defy you to find a place where I did. I do think they can be a lot more successful than they were on WP. And I do think that had they gone Android in 2009 they wouldn't be where they are today. But I don't have any illusions of them going back to number 1. I sure *hope* they do. But then again, so do Windows Phone fans hope that the OS becomes popular.
  • You know, the last time I commented on your post..I think it was on Androidcentral, you left a bad taste in my mouth in regards to your hate of WP. Now, I kinda agree with you. What got me there was Microsoft closing down some of their apps because of "lack of users." That was the nail in the coffin for WP to me. It made me think...Gee if Microsoft isn't worried about keeping some really great apps for their phone, why should others be bombarded with hate because they don't have apps or close due to the same reasons stated by Microsoft.
  • None of us truly knows what will happen, but you present things as a fait accompli when it comes to Windows phone.  Instead of addressing the merits of Nadella's vision directly, you just say that WP has been a failure in previous iterations; therefore, it will continue be a failure.  Not very illuminating.  Most observers can understand the basic distinction between Windows 8 and Windows 10 and how the latter might dramatically impact the ecosystem.  Most can also understand that the concept of universal apps is more dynamic than "it will fail because Snapchat." We will of course see, but if you are going to use such a simplistic analysis, you should also project that Nokia is doomed to future failure as well.  Unless you believe in Nokia and don't believe in Microsoft, which appears to be the case.  That just reduces your analysis to fanboy-speak though, which was my primary point.
  • There is a core distinction between Nokia and Microsoft. Nokia, even when they know something will likely fail, always do their best to try and make it succeed. That's what they did with Windows Phone. Microsoft on the other hand, as soon as they know something won't work, they just don't bother anymore. And that happened with Windows Phone 7 when it failed to immediately recoupe some of Windows Mobile's popularity. And so they just relegated Windows Phone to the back seat. It became an afterthought. And with Nadella, it became a stone in his shoe. Had Ballmer not purchased Nokia's D&S division, Nadella would probably be shutting it down now instead of downplaying it until it dies.   Microsoft CAN do great things when they commit themselves to it. They haven't committed themselves to Windows Phone. They never did and I'm pretty sure it won't start now. Actually, just look at what Nadella said. When he thinks on "Mobile" he clearly says he's thinking beyond Windows Phone. Which means Microsoft can even kill Windows Phone without killing a mobile strategy. You just need to see the term "mobile" beyond "mobile phones".
  • Phones are part of mobiles. They are not going to kill it. Windows 10 was made to run on all screen size. Why not phones? Devices are getting more powerful everyday. Soon you'll have something like Intel i7 process on 5in phone. What will it run? Windows 10.
  • Like you say, he thinks Nokia will return..... but its a new market now with Nokia going to Android they are taking on Samsung, HTC, Sony, LG etc as well as all the new OEM's jumping on Android. I do not see Nokia being successful in this market place. They were not successful when they had such an upper hand either.
  • The shareholders are probably the biggest reason for all of this. They want to send a message to people that they're changing. They're not trying to revive Nokia's legacy, they're not continuing to blindly chase after phone share, they're not trying to become Apple, none of which the shareholders want. All people can think of is iPhone, Android, and that other thing nobody wants, and they're showing that such a setup is not what they have in mind. They're building for a new era of mobile computing.
  • " long will Microsoft shareholders allow Nadella to..." Depends on the shareholders I suppose. Time for some of us who appreciate and love the platform, and have money left over (after saving up for that new Continuum device of course) to buy some shares so we have some input on questions like that.
  • In regard to wasting money producing phones; do you think its possible to cut the cost of the production through the various employee cuts as well as minimizing number of handsets so that a 3% market share can actually still make money? Isn't it about money in/money out? This is an actual question, not bitter sarcasm
  • The strategy has worked for the Xbox and Surface so they plan to do the same for Windows Mobile. A loss and journalists proclaiming failure seems to result in success for Microsoft. No guarantees of course, but following the Xbox and Surface 'failures', success is possible for WP.
  • It will depend a lot on the amount of money they lost per phone and the amount of money each employee costs. But one thing is certain: you don't achieve better results with less people and demotivated employees. These job cuts may be financially justified (and well, the entire shut down of Microsoft Mobile would be financially justifiable). However, this also has an impact on the employees that stay. It creates in them a sense of "I will be next, no matter what I do". That's not a very good working environment. As for the marketshare part...the only way you can make money on phones without having huge marketshare is if you're selling only premium phones. Take Apple or Vertu for example. Their phones sell for a hell of a lot more than they ever costed to produce. Which means you get a profit everytime you sell a phone. And if, like Apple, you manage to sell a sh*t ton of cheap phones for premium prices, you make a ton of profit. Microsoft on the other hand intends to focus, among other things, on affordable phones. Well, the problem is affordable phones never make anyone money. The One Plus One was a good example. They tried to offer the phone near the price it took them to produce it (often for less). And they got in trouble so much that they ended up putting up the price and the One Plus Two will already be more expensive than the first one. Unless Microsoft starts to only sell overpriced phones (following the Surface strategy), they'll still be losing money because they're trying to make and sell phones for a segment that not only has a lot of competition (Chinese OEMs gallore) but doesn't make them any money. Minimizing the number of handsets and firing people is the easy way out of things. It's also what Eflop did on Nokia when he arrived. I think we all know how well that went.
  • The OnePlus Two will have many upgraded feature..almost a new phone. It should therefore come as now surprise that the selling price would be more. The important consideration is not necessarily the selling price, but the value received for the price paid. Compare the features of the OPT phone @ $450 to anything else...especially Apple.
  • The One Plus One brought all the top-notch features the flagships of its time had. The OPT will bring the features of current flagships. The strategy is exactly the same. The pricing scheme changes though. As for the "value received for the price paid"...that is more of a consumer concern. Phone makers think in the money they can make on phone X versus the costs they have producing it. And they think "what is it that we can cut but that will make this phone still appealing for consumers to pay X, so that we can maximize our profit and minimize our costs". That's why you don't have - and very likely will never have - the perfect phone with everything in it. OEMs aren't interested in that, otherwise you wouldn't "need" to buy a new phone the next year.
  • Considering their stock keeps rising, I'd say it isn't an issue for shareholders.
  • Question is: how much more would it rise if they actually axed Windows Phone? If you noticed, the moment they announced the practical demise of Microsoft Mobile with more job cuts the stocks went up.
  • "I can now answer you: yes , early next year. Microsoft does have an Intel plan in the works. Would that make a good use of the Surface brand once you have an x86 phone that can be a true computer?" Lumia 940 maybe...
  • Lumia 940 is coming much sooner, like this fall.
  • Daniel, that seems to mean that there will be a 940 this fall and an x86 phone next spring.  Does that mean the 940 is MS's flagship category and the x86 is the enterpise category?
  • "Does that mean the 940 is MS's flagship category and the x86 is the enterpise category?"
    I think that is a safe assumption, yes.
  • I tought x86 could be the very best MS can make. If stays in the Enterprise Category they could use the 7xx and 8xx for that purpose.
  • Daniel has already quite clearly confirmed that 940 and 940 XL are coming this autumn. These x86 phones will have (or at least currently - internally has) something to do with Surface branding. To be honest, so many things are falling into place now regarding their Mobile strategy. Exciting times ahead. And you can call me a fanboy if you want.
  • Fanboy :P.. Jk
  • Now bring us an AMD powered phone, so we can also use an AMD exclusive feature, a hand warmer.
  • Yeah it would be a antitrust nightmare if they didn't let amd in but so far only they arm(server class) processors would be viable in sucha small form factor
  • Nah, just play Solitaire on an Snapdragon 810.
  • Amd doesn't produce smartphone processors.
  • Suface phone here we come Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • A key takeaway is, no more being that 3% smartphone OS nobody wants and tech bloggers hate (which will always be true). It was never their place to chase after innovators in places they didn't belong after all the game changing was done. And if they continue to have that mindset (3 smartphones), then they'll be stuck there, with no success, in that mindset with everyone else until someone else comes along and changes the game again. What was mistaken was that the abadonment of such a goal meant everything was done, as if the only way mobile computing can exist is in the form of an iPhone. As Nadella says, they have a much bigger strategy.
  • This is welcomed information... Good. Cause they would've had to pry my Lumia from my cold dead hands, if Microsoft existed the phone business. #WP4Lyf lol
  • That's how an awesome CEO talks.
  • Gave me chills. Love this guy.
  • The Engadget and The Verge of the world will pan Continuum.. and in a few years when Apple allows for something like that on their iDevices... they will say: INNOVATION, BABY! Nadella...tell your marketing department to sell Continuum...they don't have a single CLUE!
  • Clearly, Nadella and MS see 10 as a turning point for the entire Windows ecosystem - including phones.   Hopefully, we'll also get a 1020 replacement as a super halo phone. 
  • Sooooo....everything rests on the strength of the Windows 10 App Store?   (gulps)   The 8.1 app store is hardly a world beater, and that's with hundreds of millions of 8.1 sold. A lot of the apps are virtual abandonware (e.g. Comixology). This isn't very reassuring.
  • True, but let's be honest, they fixed a lot of what consumers saw as "wrong" with 8.1. Same for Enterprise. Combined with a free upgrade for all modern devices, it's hard to see how Windows 10 could flop, but crazier things have happened.
  • Desktop users hated full screen all the time modern apps that were not keyboard/mouse friendly. Alot of desktop users completely ignored the modern side of Win 8 along with the store full of those apps. The other problem with the store was visability & uptake. Win 8 has about 250M users, but due to the above only 15-20% or so users actively used the store, that is only 40-50M users! If Win 10 eventually has 1B users on the desktop, even if the store usage remains low @ 15-20% that would be a potential 150-200M userbase for developers to target. Win 10 will have popular 1st party universal apps Outlook, Edge, Touch Office, Photos, Onedrive, Skpe, MSN ect. that work like traditional Windowed desktop apps. These apps will be routinely updated via the store, which will increase awareness that there is a store. 
  • You're talking bulk numbers of licenses. Maybe half of them are active, so cut that down to 75-150 million. Of those active licenses, the majority would be on non-touch devlces (Xbox, older PCs, etc.), so pretty much of little value to mobile developers.  So if they get to "1 billion" Windows 10 licenses that are "sold", maybe...MAYBE 40-50 million of them will be active touchscreen users that have customer value to today's developers. Trust me...developers are and have been doing this math already, hence the sorry state of the WIndows 8 app store. 
  • There are 1.5-1.6B pcs in daily use. Win 8/8.1 has daily net usage of 16-18%.
  • Meh! Believing is holding. Fingers crossed! +L1520
  • OMG thank GOD Satya has Baaaallllllllssssss, I have always wanted Microsoft to have a Badass Asshole CEO nice I'll settles for a Man with Balls. what he said that made my day is "If they don't build Windows devices, We will build them.
  • Yeah, Satya Nadella is probably one of the best CEOs Microsoft has ever had in my opinion!
  • Ballmer had balls too tbh. He didn't give a flying fuck what shareholders had to say when Xbox was failing. He is one of the main reasons it's still here alive and well. Same with Bing.
  • Thank you Dan for passing this along.  It makes me happy that I won't have to consider another platform anytime soon.
  • Microsoft knows what to do. This is one of them. Keeping Windows as a service which will be healthy and alive. I like that idea.
  • So Daniel, what you're saying is that I should pass on the upcoming 940 & 940XL and wait for the intel based Surface phone : )
  • He didn't say that but I'd guess it's worth waiting for more info to see what is best for you. There will be differences.
  • No. Based on Intel's forays into mobile so far, my advice is to go for the phone we have, rather than waiting for a rumored future device.
  • So is that Yes an opinion about the Intel powered phone? Or is that from sources?
  • I wouldn't say it so emphatically if it were just an opinion ;)
  • So if partners step up will they stop making the Lumia devices?  So far the Lumia phones are, by far, the best ones out there.  I'd hate to see them go away.
  • Doubtful, they will be like the Surface and represent the brand in an ideal, pure form. Regardless, we are still a long, long way from such a scenario, so no need to ponder on it just yet.
  • How about the quality? Is it standard Lumia style like now, or will the designs change a bit to be more slim and eye catching. I know in loving the customization of WM10 build 10166. Posted some of my screen layouts on the forum you guys hosted sunday
  • Daniel in twitter said to someone that he did see those new flagships and it doesn't look like the concept made by @PhoneDesigner ;)
  • It couldn't be because that just a Lumia 830, do I don't know what @phonedesigner was trying to pull, but he didn't design anything new there
  • Yeah are right.. But you missed the main point.. Daniel saw those flagships.. And I was like :-0
  • I personally know a Microsoft rep who saw it and from his description, it's the same old Lumia... Maybe the I internals have changed, but that's it. I'm probably tired of the same old design and think they should something different
  • I like that attitude! Stop relying on others to get things done!
  • Word
  • Excel
  • Lol! You guys are something else.
  • Only the last line is good.
  • I had a Lumia 928 for 2 years, and my upgrade came up last month. I knew cityman was a season away, and I had a big ol' crack in my 928. So I upgraded, back to iPhone... Yup, the guilt was there. But as a power user, I do have to say the deluge of apps was extremely refreshing. I have not ruled out a return to Windows Phone, but I sincerely hope that by 2 years time Microsoft's Windows Phone will be a major player. Fingers crossed!
  • Excellent, I'm tired of waiting OEM companies like HTC and Samsung to build Windows Phone devices, if they can't give me what I want, then I'll find someone else who can, in this case, Microsoft.
  • As usual all talk and no devices
  • So once again all current windows phones will be obsolete. I doubt my 830 will have all the features that he talks about here
  • What features? And don't say Continuum, it is a party trick that no one will use and no apps will be compatible.
  • Microsoft and Nadella, that man is sure leading Microsoft to success and as Nadella says: It's all about developers and Innovation!
  • Also, there is something no tech analyst is pointing out and that is Universal Windows Platform UWP which will serve to grow the next generation of Microsft's/Windows' ecosystem. With bridging projects like Centennial(to convert existing Win32 applications into windows apps), Westminster(to convert web apps into windows apps), Islandwood(to convert iOS apps) and Astoria(to convert android apps), it is apparent that UWP application development model is the future. I don't know how many years it will take Microsoft to achieve the same level of ecosystem as its existing Win32 applications, but I know that Microsoft will get there. And by virtue of true universal apps being available across all windows device types, it makes Windows on mobile the WILD CARD horse in mobile marathon race for the next decade or so until such times as OEMs realize that windows platform offer the most complete of integrated hardware experience by being available on every device types. Imagine Samsung, LG, Lenovo and other OEMs who make PCs, Tablets and Phones flooding the market with windows based devices and you may realize maybe Microsoft's approach isn't that bad after all.
  • After reading the interview I'd like to point out the things I really liked about it. 1) He kept bringing up how Microsoft can't focus on creating the computers of today, they have to look to the future. I like this because this feels a lot nicer than Balmer's way of just focusing on what worked. Nadella is willing to take risks, and I like it. 2) He also said "We are windows" or pointed out how just because you go from a laptop to a phone, that doesn't mean your core experience has to change. I like this because a mobile operatign system is no longer just phones, and he gets that.
  • That means I will upgrade one line to a flagship this year and the other line to an intel based phone next year. Good times...
  • I think MS should take a lesson from Google, use the Lumia brand name like how Google uses nexus, pick a different manufacturer each year to produce a Lumia phone, mean while, MS can produce a surface line of phone.
  • Thanks Satya to raise the confidence. I see bright future ahead of Win Mobile platform. Bilions of Win10 desktops is something any developer can't resist. Keep em coming!
  • 24th September it is.. 3 - 6 new Lumias
  • That's a bullshit rumor, imo, which is why we are not repeating it.
  • Ha burn.
  • Same as the rumor the New Flagship lumias will cost more than an iphone 6 and s6? lol
  • Best news I have heard in a long time.
  • Between the universal app model and the new porting tools (for iOS and Android specific apps) should at least get the bigger developers to consider support. I can't imagine how someone like Supercell (Clash of CLans) can continue justifying no support honestly, they make more money than God and these new tools make it pretty straight forward.
  • To me the greatest support for universal apps will be game developers. The carrot of the Xbox & the potential  massive install base of the desktop app store is huge. If King announces revenue boosts in their quarterly earnings due to Win 10 pre installation, that will be a big signal to the entire industry. In my opinion, mobile first social apps will remain the big issue unless WP starts to growing >60% y/y again.
  • Oh that's it, I'm skipping the Fall 2015 phones and waiting for the Intel-based successor to the 1020.
  • This all sounds great and like a good plan, but I'm a little concerned about companies not building apps for Windows Desktop either.  Like Chase Bank for example.  The website will work fine, what good is an app?  If everybody is using Windows as a desktop with a mouse and keyboard, why make the app?   Hoping they don't think that way...
  • I like the integration of Universal apps between smartphones + HoloLens + XboxOne + PC Nadella talks about. What this means is that Microsoft's Internet of Things approach will be universal, there will be one device with the IoT new sensors but the software will work everywhere at your house, office or on when you're outside in the street. The clue here is communications unified platform which is that technology that will let you stream Xbox One games to HoloLens or your flagship smartphone, but which would also server for many smart home applications. I think Microsoft's next aquisition could be a company like Libelium which already has the patents for all these new sensors that power the IoT industry.  
  • Thanks Dan. I'll utilize my brand-new and fully functional 640XL til that "Intel-whatever" comes out early next year. I can hold out, even if the 940 brothers are tugging at my wallet.
  • A Windows Phone will not run desktop x86 software, so it does not really matter to the user if the phone runs on an Intel x86 CPU or on an ARM CPU. The only things important here are performance and efficiency. And until now, ARM has always beaten Intel on efficiency. Maybe this will change, but right now I wouldn't be too excited about Intel CPUs on a WP device...
  • Yet.
  • Who says they won't allow running legacy x86 apps when docked to a monitor? A phone that could theoretically run full photoshop? Given enough processing power down the line, it's totally feasible. If and when things like that are possible, it will finally make more sense what their mobile strategy is. Also the ARM architechure isn't more efficient by a long shot. It is historically less power hungry in practice, but an x86 even at half the clock speed as an ARM is not even comparable in performance. And Intel has been working hard on being more mobile. I figured x86 on the go was on the horizon, this confirms it.
  • I think it most definitely would run x86 desktop software, there's no reason it couldn't and they have made it very clear that they are playing their strengths. It would make no sense for it not to run, even if only in continuum mode. But they can easily do a "legacy" type of mode where you can control the applications similar to using TeamViewer or another remote desktop app on your phone. It's all very possible, and very likely.
  • When used as a phone no, but when docked? Open question.
  • Not really an open question, as MS has made no claims that this is intended to ever be included functionality, and it would require a new version of Windows on your mobile device. Since Windows 10 is the last version of Windows, this new version will probably never arrive.
  • "Why as a developer do I now want to build an app that runs on Windows Phone if there's going to be even fewer Windows Phones?" is a pretty moronic question. If 1000 people are going to buy windows phones, less models doens't mean less phones, it means less fragmentation.
  • It's a completely logical question. It is likely Lumia sales will fall but they're banking on a different strategy. Mary J Foley doesn't ask moronic questions.
  • No it isn't a completely logical question. There is nothing that says there will be less phones. 
  • You mean apart from them saying they'll be reducing the number of models? That likely means less phones overall as they said they wouldn't sell in markets that weren't responding to the devices in any way.
  • No, less models does not directly correlate to less sold. Look at iPhone or Samsung, they have less models than Lumia every year, yet they sell a ton. Less models means less fragmentation, and that's it.
  • But there are only two iPhones, and that only happened this year, which means that there are roughly 1.8% as many iPhone apps and developers as Android apps. Right? Did I logic right?
  • You mean they could actually sell the same amount of phones in the value segment offering just the 535 & 640 instead of the insanity that was the 430, 435, 530, 532, 535, 540, 635, 638 & 640? Who knew! lol
  • Sometimes Satya still say something good This is talking!
  • I don't think Satya Nadella is banking on Windows Phone success, not even a bit. If there was any hope on Windows Phone, he would not write off Nokia, he would not lay off 1000s of mobile division staffs and he would not say 'we will build phones if OEMs don't.' He is so naive if he seriously means it, which I know he doesn't. If they had trust that making phones will make them money, why wouldn't they do it themselves? And how come OEMs make windows phone if Microsoft is hopeless about wp? Nadella has one strategy- having MS services in as many devices as possible regardless of OSes. The scope of windows OS on desktops is also crunching. My best hope is Microsoft is looking beyond Windows and on to various services we may need in our tech dominated future to develop and deploy their solutions before others do. Saying that Nadella seriously cares about windows phone is no more than a wishful thinking. CEOs care about money making, nothing else! Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • How did you get that "we don't want own factories and would rather outsource to Foxconn"???
  • His name says everything.. Not gonna waste time on this comment anyways ;)
  • Herds choose to follow their types and wander around in darkness. Luminaries think and act different! Watch how Nadella will steer Microsoft away from the money drowning windows phone making business in the next two years. It's beggars belief that a business leader of Nadella's stature would keep throwing hundreds of millions at a business with next to nill hope of any ROI.
  • Imagine if 1/5 of the people just on this site were developers.  I am going to spend some time after my cert test and concentrate on building for this platform.
  • "IF OEMs don't build phones, we'll make our own, with blackjack and Nokia! Know what? Forget the blackjack."
  • I guess I have been around long enough that I understand Microsoft and Satya. What he said in this interview is exactly what was my interpretation of last week's news. Not the short sighted doom and gloom. Satya sees the future.
  • Snap. The perfect leader for Microsoft I have no doubt.
  • Agree with you both. I kept an open mind at first but the more I see the more I like and respect Satya.
  • Many companies will want to have users pinning their app to the new PC start screen.
  • Most don't use the start screen/menu often.
  • Yeah, I still use desktop icons, it's just faster, imo.
  • Sounds good, hope it works
  • Can someone explain what an Enterprise phone is? Is that going to be sold in Microsoft stores alongside flagship and budget phones? Is it better than a flagship? How does it fit into a BYOD world? I don't see people giving up their iPhones and Androids because the company is issuing Windows Enterprise Phones.
  • Enterprise phones are the communication devices the away team carry when they beam down to an alien planet. Sorry. You asked.
  • I feel like the Intel phones are going to be marketed towards the enterprise sector, I could be wrong but it seems logical to me.
  • Ive never been a fan of this guy but maybe he isn't so bad. If the OEMs dont make it Microsoft will. Makes me feel better. I much prefer a Lumia or Ms branded phone to other possible choices. I never thought Windows phone would just disappear.
  • Oh Nadella you are just a genius!!! I believe you will succeed 100%!!! ​ ​
  • What folly! What makes MSFT think that phone hardware vendors, will build new phones now, after dropping them for Android just a few years ago. Nokia was the primary vendor that you bought and castrated in a short two years, now just building the low-end. You slapped your users in the face by developing apps for Android/IOS before Windows. You should have had a touch capable Office product out 2 years ago. Whose brilliant idea was Windows RT? MSFT failed and now blames the market.
  • They're not expecting this to happen overnight. They're signaling to the world that this phone business isn't what they're in, they have different goals. Leadership into a new mobile era, no more of this fruitless smartphone war.
  • Hi, guys I have one super plan for MS, but I can only share with. Satya Nadella anyone in contact with him then pass him this message
  • I just passed him your message and guess what? He doesn't give a flying fuck to your 'super plan', plus he thinks you've got a weird name.
  • Yippee, wooohoooo, Yee haw, etc, etc. In a nutshell, thank goodness MS have cleared up where they stand on this how about giving us a couple of new phones to actually look at
  • Omg yes yes and yes. Good job Mary my questions answered
  • My thoughts   1)  Surface phone for business segment powered by intel 2)  Lumia phones to fill the gap until OEM starts to launch great phones. After that, i think that there will be only 2-3 Microsoft phones per year.
  • This is all very simple and really should have never gotten to this point. People totally lost sight of the fact that the memo from Nadella was not a public statement, it was an internal memo to MS employees explaining the layoffs and the vision. He was explaining the reason for the layoffs. Windows Phone as an OS is dead, this is true. The new WP is just Windows which is why he made the statement that they are no longer pursuing a standalone smartphone platform. The platform he was referring too was Windows Phone, which was a standalone, specific OS for phones. Instead they are pursuing mobile through Windows. Everyone got that wrong, including people such as Thurrott, who completely misinterpreted it and literally shoved the WP is dead, MS gives up message down our throats last week. I expect some sites like Cnet to act that way and run with it, I expect more from smart folks like Thurrott and others on more respectable sites.
  • Dan, you're blowing my mind over here. Are you really saying that there will, without a doubt, be an Intel based Windows phone in the near future?! I really don't want to wait any longer for a WP flagship device but I just may have to now.
  • Then you will be waiting for some serious amount of time
  • Really? Because I don't consider waiting less than a year "some serious amount of time"
  • Intel based phone won't see light until Q3 2016 at least .. Better go with upcoming flagship and later move to intel based phones if you wish to.. And it sounds like an enterprise based phone and you won't be having fancy features as a flagship I think..
  • And you know that how? We've waited all this time for a new flagship I don't think waiting another 6months or so is that big a deal.
  • That was my guess.. That's why there is two words at the end " I think " ..
  • IEhrgeizl gets it. 
  • No. Since when has Microsoft launched a product without announcing it a year or so ahead of time? If they're planning anything big, they'll announce it too far ahead. That is their way. So maybe they have an announcement planned within 6 months, but you won't see the device until maybe Q3. Source: Every MSFT product.
  • Satya Nadella himself said to MJ Foley, "I can answer you now: Yes, early next year." The question was about "intel-powered phones".
  • Staya Nadella Rocks !!!
  • This is all I need to hear.  I'm in for life.
  • the main point is MS is never going to leave Windows Phone OS anytime soon or may be not even in future as well.. I don't care about market share.. I don't care about fancy apps ( even though MS and WP users do care about market share and apps - it's just my opinion) .. I'll stay in WP.. I'm so much invested in Windows platform and there is no going back.. This is real good news... Nice interview.. And Nice article as well..
  • Good read. I'm personally hoping for a very highend Lumia / Surface phone with FULL Windows 10. Think of the possibilities!
  • Less is More, and I'm glad Microsoft had taken a simpler route with Lumia-Windows devices. I am honestly looking forward to all their tiers, not just the premium. I plan on getting the Medium Range 5'' device to compliment my 435.
  • x86 phone?  OMG too awesome.  I'm so happy.
  • Wow, u guys are super pasionate here. I am too but damn. Microsoft is in a strange place. Being the inventers of smart phones in the 1st place & having the ability, desire & need to take on apple and google in every aspect of their respective businesses. MS is the only company on earth with the capability to pull off such a thing and stick with it thru the good and the bad times. If you think about it, Its not MS going after apple and google, its more the othe way around. Apple and Google know that Microsofts Windows OS is a beast. Cortana/Bing search can and will take on siri and google search, They are trying to kill MS products because They want to take over the office suite customers and the cloud customers along with. MS has to fight back on all fronts or loose all of their business on all fronts. Its really kinda healthy competition but I think that MS will win out in the end. As for developers, they are stupid for not building on windows 8-8.1, But they should loose their jobs if they don't develop on Windows 10. IJS!