O2 Germany reportedly plans to combine Lumia Cyan and Denim over-the-air updates

Exactly❗❗❗❗ .... So, your device will start with Cyan, and you will start the process all over again with Denim... MS doesn't allow us to literally skip an update with WP...

MS doesn't, but our carriers do.

No... Even the carriers cant❗ ... The only way for them to give you Denim is to give you Cyan first.. Your device just will not allow for it to work any other way..

Surely denim is firmware that overwrites previous firmware.

Yes❗ It does overwrite current firmware... Bit, we have to understand that the Denim features are coded into the OS... The Denim firmware unlocks features, and provides the necessary drivers for specific devices.. In this case Lumia specific devices.. The actual new features lie within the OS updates like WP8.1, GDR1, and GDR2.... Pretty simple.

Not to be semantic but in reality if an OEM or a carrier withhold the release of a firmware until the next one is available.... it is skipping it. In technical terms no, they are not skipping it because the unreleased one is propaedeutic to the installation of the latest but it is just a segment of the update process. In other words as a user for a certain period of time you would miss what others are already using.  

Ha ha, that's exactly what I was trying to say. Thanks Fritzly

That's true, and relevant on a certain level, but for the sake of not confusing people it's easier to stick with the technical aspect of the situation than any perceptual way of thinking about it...
........
These guys are just asking whether it's coding mixed together, or not..

Yes, I agree on that. I meant skip as in they will not release the current until the new one comes out. So in a way, they are skipping release to their customers.

Updates are accumulative, so downloading all the updates for Denim will just toss Cyan and 8.1 improvements in there too.

Yess you are right

Another question in mind, will lower end Lumias get denim updates??? Like 520,620,720

Yes

It's funny how such a simple article can turn into this... Lol!

They will not likely put them together in a single update, but they will probably serve them up in a single OTA push.

Exactly❗

Cumulative is the operative word here.

Yes❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗ .. I couldn't remember that.. Thanks

You will get 2 (cyan + denim) updates in the background but to the user it will look like they only got 1 (Denim)

Well nice

That sucks so much! C'mon O2, release the Cyan update already!!!

Someone didn't read the article.

Indeed but I wonder who did not? Requesting the carrier to release the available firmware seems a legit request to me...

Legit request yes, but asking where it will never be seen by the askee is pointless.

And the askee doesn't understand what they have read.

rhe·tor·i·cal adjective \ri-ˈtȯr-i-kəl, -ˈtär-\ : of, relating to, or concerned with the art of speaking or writing formally and effectively especially as a way to persuade or influence people of a question : asked in order to make a statement rather than to get an answer

Lol!!!!!❗❗❗❗❗❗

Hehe first tip, u guys are fast!!

I didn't get it.. So it will merge both updates? Meaning, users on o2 are still o Lumia black, right?
So they will jump from black to denim in one update? Is that correct?

No.. The updates will just be sequential on your device... One after another in the same sitting...
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CUMULATIVE❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗

Yup. Has happened many times before. They just try and give "We'll delay Cyan until Denim is available" a more positive-sounding spin...

Right..

Interesting it sort of contridicting Nokia Conversations where it states you need Cyan in order to get Denim, http://conversations.nokia.com/2014/09/16/lumia-cyan-denim-feature-bursting-upgrade-path/

To get your hands on the Lumia Denim Update and enjoy the many improvements, you must first update to Lumia Cyan.

I believe there is no contradiction at all. They will just release both firmware at once but your phone will definitely install Cyan first.

That would interesting if if can be pulled off without any problems.  Now if VerizonWireless can get on board with this.

You will update to Cyan first.. Whenever you get the official update notification your device will do a complete Cyan update, reboot, and migration, then you will get another notification for Denim starting the process all over again..
..........
A lot of yall are thinking that O2 is literally going to merge the two updates... No.

Makes more sense now.

It's really nothing new.... I think we did this with WP7.5 on some devices... Remember the fix for the "disappearing keyboard".. Some of us got two updates with WP7.8....

But was that a firmware update or OS update?  Reason I ask is firmware updates normally need carrier signoff.

No, I'm sure that was an OS level bug fix because it affected devices on multiple carriers... But, the theory still remains.. Two updates at a time..

Multiple OS updates in specific order I can understand.  Firmware is new to me but i guess lower version numbering gets selected first.  It will be a looong upgrade process though :D

Yeah, about as long as the WP7.5 update... That took forever.. Taking consideration the processing power of our WP hardware at the time....

So denim isn't a full firmware, just a patch.

Its a full frimware hence the 'D' in Denim.  If it was patch it still will be Cyan.

Exactly.. So you can jump straight from black to denim :)

It would appear so to the untrained eye, but NO!... Your device would have to install Cyan first then Denim.... In other words.. MS hasn't coded Denim with Cyan features.. If you did what you're suggesting your device would be missing Cyan features, and some features of Denim possibly wouldn't be possible to work, or make sense.....
.................
You have to crawl before you walk......

No, the patches come with GDR updates, like update 1, and 2..

Yes. Windows 8.1 for phone is an update gdr 1 a patch.so 8.1,with lumia firmware is cyan. Gdr 1 with lumia firmware is denim and so on

I wonder if Verizon is planning the same thing?

Im thinking they are. So I guess if they give Cyan earlier it will be a nice surprise for me.

I bet they are doing the same thing

Considering devices like icon & m8 can handle volte(which may not be available in all markets) I could see them doing just that

Lol keep dreaming.

How, when so when are we expecting 8.1.1 update. And then denim,on the way. We are too late then I guess. In fall 2015 we will introducing new version of windows and that is rumoured to availabe to all the device. How are we gonna manage and get the pending updates!

LOL what a sad provider

This is weird

Maybe that's the same plan MS has for DP users

-920 :(

Yeah, I mentioned that yesterday... Because we don't have our Denim firmware yet, but there is already speak of update2 which will have its own firmware... That's weird because DP users will be two firmware updates behind if we don't get Denim before the DP to update 2.....
.................
They could combine Denim with update 2DP for DP users.... IDK how that's going to pan out..

I hope so

O2 Germany is stupid. They are not able to deliver cyan... that's the only reason for this stupid decision. This statement is only to calm down their customers.

Long wait for an update I guess.. In other words, late but latest...

It is a good idea. If they focus on upgrading other OSes now they can focus on Windows Phone with Denim. Really Microsoft and other Windows OEMs should move on from this carrier approval process and do updates as the iPhone does.

Apple DOES have a carrier approval process. The difference is that Apple has the clout to give a deadline. Microsoft and WP do not :/

Well given the debacle that the Cyan update process has been, I think it's not that bad to have them combined. At any rate, Denim brings nothing to devices not launched by Microsoft Mobile (which means, basically all the x20 series with the exception of the 1520) so they might as well launch them all together instead of having the trouble of later testing a useless update for 90% of their WP offerings.

Yep!

I think Bluetooth 4.0 LE is a big deal, especially for those of us trying to sync things like fitbit trackers.

Oh don't worry, that won't stop some 520 users clamouring in the comments sections of every news site and to Microsoft asking where their Denim update is because they desperately (!!!?!!?!) need it.

Please tell us when Lumia cyan is coming for dp

I need that too. I don't have access to the Nokia recovery tool.

download it on pc of u have a pc.

Sadly, I am still in XP. And may not buy a new PC until next year.

Oh yeah, you guys have to wait, haha~ microsoft has done a good job delaying updates

You may have to do some more research to know who is on delay. I believe MS is very much improved on releasing updates that carriers have a hard time keeping up.

Not at all a Microsoft delay. This is a carrier dragging their feet, pure and simple.

no, at least here in Hong Kong, carriers have little power over Phone updates, but we are often one of the few last places to get updates.

When exactly Microsoft plans on releasing update denim for Lumia 520

Tomorrow. (/sarcasm)

I got no problem with that ... Since most of Cyan features are dedicated to the 930 & 1520.

Does this mean o2 uk and other country's?

No only O2 Germany Lumias have to wait other countries are not concerned with this.

What a BS stunt. They are not combining anything. It is firmware, one replaces the other (with previous changes included). They are just skipping Cyan.   To clarify... What annoys me more is not that they would skip one. It's that they try to cover it with BS.

Exactly what I said above. If it was merely a patch you could simply get and apply and not lose your data via oc. :)

Do we have to download each firmware updates to have all its features? Or you can just download the latest (like the denim) and you already have everything?

Most likely the update package will contain both so they can send out in a single OTA push but they will install in a sequential manner, meaning cyan will install first then denim.

No you won't have to. It's firmware. The latest will include all features from previous firmwares. Once you get Denim you will have what you are supposed to have.

In theory you could install denim straight from black, as its firmware that overwrite pervious version.

I figured this might happen, sounds better than saying "that the cyan update is delayed until further notice", :P.

Not even got cyan on my 920 with EE

This is horrible news. I mean, it's good that the customers are going to eventually get Denim but who knows how long it will be before they finish testing. 8.1 has already been out for six months and the GDR1 update has been out for a month. Denim is coming out next month so that means more additional tests. Before it's all said and Threshold will be out and people will still be waiting for Cyan. Ridiculous. I really wish Microsoft would just bypass carrier testing altogether.

Great news for O2 Germany users. Would be better news if this was annouced for DP users that haven't received Cyan yet like myself.

MS Joe what's his face, says cyan isn't blocked. Think he was high when he said that.

Great to hear update one is coming soon...thanks nokia conversions

Don't like the idea. I hope this never happens to me :\

Is O2 and Verizon related? I'm wondering if Verizon is doing this.

That's great news, been waiting on cyan from my carrier for months now. Seems like it's taking forever and just bout everyone is getting cyan... Now denim. Hopefully soon, soon, soon Verizon, soon.

Sounds like marketting BS. I mean the firmwares don't exist side by side in a phone. Each new one includes everything in the prior ones (minus any deletes). Isn't this just some spin that sounds better than "we put Cyan updates off so long the next version is here"?

At least they are getting it. 620 in India is yet to receive the update.
Getting both the updates together is a good idea if not delayed.

It's a nothing article really.

I know first hand, German carriers are RIDICULOUSLY SLOW. it took about 9 months for telekom to approve Black... So this is just an excuse for further delay. They simply suck. Not to mention that i had The WORST 3G/4G experience, EVER, in Germany, right in the center of cities like Berlin, Hamburg, Munich... It was even worse in the suburbs and among The most expensive data contracts in Europa. 40€ a month for 6GB on LTE with an iPad... and ridiculous surcharge Over contract. Not to mention roaming charges. Let me repeat that once More. German carriers SUCK!

Some of us don't have the Cyan and then this! Duh.

Wouldn't surprise me if Verizon did this too. Considering that we still don't have Cyan.

Two firmware updates at a time? Put a month between it then you can enjoy cyan and later denim

There is no problem to enjoy both.

They are basically saying they are not going to update to cyan because they are too fucking lazy

when 8.1 gdr 1 ,gdr 2 and gdr3 ,,will come , anyone having idea ????

Let's hope Verizon does the same...

John, Please consider NOT ending every article with "what do you think".  It's annoying IMO. TIA

Well I been waiting on cyan so long I opt for the DP, if it wasn't for that I sorta would not have known what features to look forward too. I'm at the point where I'm thinking bout n my next upgrade being an iPhone 6 plus which at up to next year, soooooooo come Verizon

nice job!

Ok, a lot of replies. I haven't read all BUT... CYAN ist available on O2 in Germany! I got a Lumia 820 and Cyan on O2 germany. No, Carrier branded device, and yes, I was registered dev on MS, but the subscription was ... 3 years ago - I guess. So... about 1 week ago my phone told me that there was an update and... voila... cyan. Strange that this shouldn't be... as fas as O2 Germany tells us ;-)

O2 does not control which devices that are logged in they network get an update or not. They control which devices with there branding get an update our not. Since your 820 is not branded with O2 you got the update. It's the same with my Lumia Phones the got cyan already because they are the country varant versions and I am on a O2 plan also.

Genius! Maybe T-Mobile and Verizon will adopt this strategy; one can only hope

They certainly shouldn't. Isn't getting Cyan now and getting Denim in December better than getting both in December? One would be completely losing out using 8.1 for almost 3 months

Jeez I wish we all had this!

T-Mobile's waiting on the Corduroy update before they release anything, haha

That is messed up and they better be one of the first carriers to release it over there since they're pulling this on their WP customers.

This is exactly what Verizon is doing. When a carrier skips a release and a second one comes out, both updates are forced through over the air. The carriers are not doing anyone a favor, they are sitting on their hands refusing to do anything because Microsoft will push both updates when Denim is released. O2 and Verizon don't care about their customers, they care about not paying anyone to work on this.

Lets hope Verizon follows suit!

I don't understand why you guys have carriers meddling with the firmware updates? I live in taiwan and indonesia and it never happened to me before, i use 1520 dev preview but 1020 on normal updates, and i never have difficulty with black and cyan updates like you guys..

Great news, I also installed the developer preview especially because I want to get all the updates at once, and possibly 6 months late.

So happy, that O2 didn't had my 1520 and I got it somewhereelse ... For everybody out there thinking about having O2 ... Don't do it, they are horrible and I can't wait to end my contract with them.

No contracts no living on mercy of carriers...enjoying my cyan update
..i think I would get denim even before some of you reach cyan...

Will Denima update be avaible for Lumia 625?

There not that many carriers that have done nothing at all. 60% of users upgraded and there are just a couple of regions that are lagging behind on this now. Look at europe most countries have 1 or none left to approve or cyan availability. O2 has 4 phones not tested. Germany and the US seem to be the laggards.