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From the Forums: BlackBerry 10, Win Phone experiences

Howdy, folks! Welcome to a relatively quiet From the Forums. We hope you've all had a superb day with family and friends. Fortunately, activity on our community forum doesn't appear to show signs of decrease, even up and around the festive holiday. So what's been happening on our forum, while the news has been taking a short break?

BlackBerry 10. It's not long until RIM unleashes the next version of its mobile platform, but what will the impact be for Windows Phone? Will Microsoft suffer from RIM's already established brand, or is it simply too late for BlackBerry to update itself and catch up with the rest?

Windows Phone Central forum member brmiller1976 took time to test drive BlackBerry 10 and published a number of points that he feels could damage Windows Phone.

"RIM took its time to 'get everything right.' They've ramped up hardware production, they have every major carrier in the US and worldwide supporting their launch (unlike WP) and there are unlikely to be device shortages, regardless of demand. They also spent time to fix and tweak every element of the software experience."

While it's a valid worry (among other reasons supplied), BlackBerry 10 is still yet to arrive and until RIM releases new hardware, it'll continue to hang in the balance just what prospects are for the newly refreshed version. With what hardware Nokia is producing to-date, namely the Lumia 920 (wireless charging, PureView, etc.), RIM does have its work cut out.

Do you believe RIM has a chance to advance through third spot and beyond to take down Google / Apple, or is Microsoft in a comfortable position? Be sure to head on over to the "Could BlackBerry 10 kill Windows Phone?" thread.

1 week experience with Windows Phone

Spirited has posted a one week experience write-up after ditching iPhone for Windows Phone (Lumia 920) to see what all the fuss is about. Unlike some stories that are full of princesses and knights, this one isn't overly positive - which is great as the platform has to get everything right for new adopters.

So what are the niggles? One covers the notification system:

"Notification system: it shows only 1 msg at once on the top. iPhone shows all new messages on the home screen and I do not have to unlock the phone to read these messages... But WP8 does not do this way. After I unlock the phone, i always have to look at individual app to see if i have any new messages!!! considering so many tiles on the phone, this is not efficient."

Unfortunately, there are still some parts of Windows PHone that could be upgraded or improved, even vetaren users believe such actions should take place. The only issue is how to improve functionality without complicating the simple user experience, or bloating a section of the OS up whic hthen makes it more difficult to use.

Do you agree with the experiences and feedback provided? Head on over to the "" thread to add your opinion.

Do remember that it's free to register an account with us to join in the conversion. See you over on the forums!

Rich Edmonds
Senior Editor, PC Build

Rich Edmonds is Senior Editor of PC hardware at Windows Central, covering everything related to PC components and NAS. He's been involved in technology for more than a decade and knows a thing or two about the magic inside a PC chassis. You can follow him over on Twitter at @RichEdmonds.

  • Well I don't know I think blackberry has a fair chance to beat windows phone. The thing that is a plus for WP8 is availability in almost all price range where as blackberry N and L seems pretty costly by the looks of it. And ya WP desperately needs a notification centre.
  • BB10 will cover all the price ranges from low to high. The price for them is yet to be revealed
  • Your second sentence contradicted your first.
  • I just mentioned the upper hand that WP has over BB10.
  • How do you know the price range if they haven't been revealed?
  • My thought is that BB10 will NOT fail, atleast not right out of the bat for the following reasons: BB has 79m subs, they only need to sell 18m phones over the next year - year and a half to break even (Analysts sad that.. I think Topeka). With that the stock will jump to about $36-38. That will give them enough cash to survive for a very long time. So I do think they have a chance for success.   While their ecosystem might be impacted, they do have some good apps on the Playbook (yes,  I do have one coz work gave it to me for free :) ) With the enterprise server/ Fusion, they can support most OSs in the workplace..It will be interesting to see how the BYOD managers like Mobile Iron etc. react to that. No matter how much I have loved all my WP phones, I am going to buy the BB10 the day it launches... just for some respect. It was "the" smartphone that made me like and use smartphones (I have had Siemens SX56, Sony Eriscon P900 before those).
  • Blackberry doesn't have an ecosystem. That is less important on the business front, but in a BYOD world it will hurt significantly.
  • honestly windows phones are making a pretty good run despite the shortages. the phone is pretty amazing. I agree that maybe something like a notification centre would be a good addition. however, the lock screen already shows what alerts you have at the bottom, which in a way acts as a notification centre even though it only shows the mainstream apps. but I guess that's what live tiles are for.
  • Only works live when pinned to start screen. What you don't pin, you won't know unless cartch at the instant. Big issue! Allowing only 5 notifications on lock screen is poor execution. Should be of infinite choice.
  • Infinite, huh? Can you imagine how inefficient, ugly, and cluttered that would be?? WP needs to add a notifications panel to the "Me" hub/tile, with live tile notifications.
    But infinite on the lock screen is just insane, and it speaks to the lack of productivity you find in other OS's.
  • I have converted 4 people to windows phone and none of those people have even mentioned lack of a notification centre, only how fast and fluid it is, i think that speaks volumes personally
  • ^This!!! My conversion count is 6 total two of which were from apple, every complaint they had was just them being unaware of how to do it on a windows phone. When people give it a honest try without bias they love it!!!
  • Great, but we want to capture a larger market and to do so we'll need to incorporate features that users want or are used to. I'm used to the way WP handles notifications but I think a notification center would be a welcome addition.
  • The thing I don't understand is... If you're loyal to the old BB, why do you have to choose BB10 when it looks nothing like the old BB that you love?
  • ^this they may have an established brand, but this is an entirely new os we are talking about. wouldn't that mean they have to reestablish developer base? As well as a consumer base that seems happy with the decisions they made when leaving the platform to begin with?
  • Your last point makes sense but they've been spending the last several months getting the BB faithful among the dev community to make apps. They should be launching with around 70,000 (I've heard) but who knows what quality those'll be in. They apparently have an extremely easy way to port Android apps over to their platform but from what I've read they run like shit. Also, devs won't want to take the hit on their reputation if it means their apps won't run well.
  • on that note didnt microsoft say they had a very easy way to port apps as well. im not trying to paint doom and gloom but it seems to me that though the bb10 platform will be very solid but they will suffer the same thing wp8 is suffering from and that is a lack of the important apps. Even if they launch with 70,000 apps are they going to be defined? are they gonna be bug free? are they even gonna be good? we have very good apps for specific things but even as a devoted wp fan i cannot deny we lack very essential apps that are trending currently on rival platforms, and the devs for said apps are being dicks about making one (which i still dont understand why they wouldnt wanna maximize profits) that bullcrap excuse about userbase not being big enough to justify it is tired. because they would have a united userbase for everyone using that app. Those apps are cross platform, they're free, and they're heavily heavily used, all that would do is generate awareness for their product so i see it as nonsensical. 
  • I think blackberry has a number of advantages over WP8 but im not necessarily sure that it will translate to success. If anything two major players at the bottom will continue to spur innovation for everyone and I can't see a downside to that. I love my windows phone, but I also love gadgets. If bb becomes a viable threat to the success of wp, hopefully it will speed up MS efforts to evolve the os. Coming out the gate with support from all major players is no small feat and shouldn't be overlooked. Seems like everyday I check tech news my platform is shedding developers I wish I knew what was going on behind the scenes but bb could make WP the red headed stepchild of the platforms even more than it currently is.
  • Good points.
  • If BB10 can be released with the beat hardware it can offer on all Major Carriers, then WP will be in trouble. I'm still one to believe Nokia should release THREE phones on all Major Carriers. Lumia 9XX (high end, pure view + motion 720P screen 32GB+, Sensitive Screen, Lumia 8XX (mid end, pure view, 720P screen 16GB + Expandable, Sensitive Screen), Lumia 7XX (low end, 8-16GB + Expandable, Non HD Screen, Sensitive Screen) and then release mid end and some even lower end 6XX on pay as you go and boost mobile etc.
  • The question is, will there be many apps in their market?
  • Apps are the end all, be all for hardware in this day and age. WP8 is slowly catching up and bb10 could take its place if the right devs come on board sooner than later. Same with wp8 they need more devs with mainstream appeal. I hope wp8 goes far cuz I was never a fan of bb when they big and android is only slightly more bearable than apple.
  • And that right there is a damn shame about this mobile device game. When people get too involved in apps, they ignore the OS it's self. And IMO WP stomps all the rest the OS department by a long shot.
    Also I don't see a point of the weird app number d*ck measuring thats going on because:
    1). You're not going to install nor use 500,000 apps (besides games you MIGHT install 50).
    2). How many of the apps available for all OS's are really worth a damn let alone worth installing and worth bragging about? Seriously, can someone PLEASE tell me hoa many true, high quality apps are available ofr iOS, and android??
  • I was a die hard fan of BB. Not to forget a certified BB engineer, last was 9900 which came as a disappointment as they had no apps which i use an widely available else where. My wishes goes to BB, though i cant leave my 920
  • BB should not be under estimated, its last chance saloon for MS, 2013 will define WP's future. I will not be averse to jumping ship if things don't improve by 2014, will go Android and get an iPhone for the wife.
  • What we need to remember is mobile phones became mini computers, and most important are ecosystems now not just about having a nice phone, Microsoft offers, windows desktop, windows tablets, Xbox with music, Skype, office, etc.. All people app is awesome on all. The one thing blackberry did nice is the work node and the personal use mode that will do well with corp world. WP as advantage also because the can make midrange phones through Nokia and HTC to get more market share and its already out. Microsoft does have a Facebook app problem, and we will see if blackberry has the same. Overall as for now WP is way ahead of the game, blackberry phone system is not a game changer device
  • As a long time RIM BB user, I can assure you RIM has never been one to make sure everything is done correctly before releasing a device or OS update. It was always a running joke if RIM was finally going to fix nagging issues in the next release or not. So to see someone say they got it right this time, you can color me unimpressed.
  • Different management this time. I won't be underestimating them.
  • My boss is on an HTC 8x but he will be jumping ship when bb10 is released. Personally I'd like to see both bb and wp succeed. I still love my 920.
  • MS, Apple and google need only worry about "fence sitters". Those that buy smart phones but have NO real brand loyality to speak of. There are millions of them.  Having said that, should Blackberry 10 have a good launch, somebody is going to feel it...especially if it drops WITH notification in tow.
  • Actually it's the other way around. "Fence sitters" can be conviced to at least try another device. It's the die-hard fan boys who blindly ignore every other device on the market and see theirs as the superior product.
  • I guess I'm not familiar enough with iPhone, because all I remember is the bar at the top of the screen after unlocking. WP8 has the lock screen notifications, plus lock screen assignments, then the live tiles. Can't understand how it could be more comprehensive. RIM/Blackberry has always been the pride of the business sector. If it's true that MS/Nokia will be stepping up the business sector marketing attack, RIM may have a major challenge. With native Office 2013 and Office 365 integrated, the new 8 culture-PC/tablet/WP8-and 128 bit encryption, MS and its OEM partners are going to challenge that RIM establishment. Still, I think MS can't sit on their hands on this and should be ramping up that enterprise marketing more than they already are imho.
  • Just so everyone knows, BB 10 can run Android apps. But Android has a Malware issue with apps so I don't know how people will react. And before someone says malware isn't an issue, I ask one question: Why do antivirus companies offer antivirus security for Android ONLY? BB was awful before BB 10 so I am interested to see what they cook up, but people are so invested in Android and Apple that they won't switch to spend more money for 1 extra software feature when Apple or Google/devs will modify to match that software feature in their next release. And I think those who stay with Windows Phone are invested. But Google, Microsoft, and Apple have something RIM doesn't have- an ecosystem.
  • Malware will definitely be an issue to the enterprise sector.
  • I've asked everyone what notifications they need that bad that the cant get to and they can't tell me...for me my ME tile gives me my facebook, twitter, linkedin and hotmail, there color don't change until I look at them the ME live tile will tell me how many i have. Then all my tech sites arecall in he same location on my start screen wit live tiles and toast notification...WPcentral live tile tells me how many post I have not read so I don't get the notification center problem....
  • What if I don't want to have large size icons? Small ones aren't displaying notifications until they're updated. What if I miss a notification and don't have it pinned? Also I've heard that the CNN app has issues with notifications and that if you don't click on the toast notification when it displays that you can't access the Breaking News section without it. My point is if they do it in an unobtrusive way then you don't have to use it. Why not make future users of the platform unhappy? We should understand that WP is a paradigm far off from the familiarity that most users have had since they started using computers. Adding a notification center can help new users feel more comfortable since its familiar. I don't know, I'm just trying to imagine what a new user who's computer illiterate but has some familiarity with phones might be thinking when they use a WP.
  • The only way I would accept a notification center in WP, its if they do it differently than he other guys. Windows phone caught my eye because of the fluidity, live tiles, simplicity, integration and most importantly how DIFFERENT it is to iPhone and Android.
  • It'll still be different if we have the notification center iOS/Android does. Why make things overly complicated just to be different. You notice we have a very similar copy and paste system to iOS? The only difference is that we have to have the keyboard up to paste. Be reasonable.
  • That's why Live tiles are so important! They notify you of anything that comes up to the phone. You also have the notifications part on the ME tile maybe they can add more integration to that.
  • I've been a WP supporter since it's initial release but I am going to be getting a BB10 device as soon as my contract is up. My biggest decision in doing jumping ship is MS's complete neglect of WP7.5 users. People are upset about that. I have stated that it is one thing to promote the newest while still supporting the older, but they have done nothing to show that support. We'll have to see what happens with the ongoing BB7 support that RIM has stated they will give. That is going to be a variable in the equation that I haven't seen mentioned yet. Support is a huge factor in loyalty when you're unestablished and WP is not established. Long time BB users may be able to look past the non-BB10 update for BB7 devices because they know and understand BB's need to recreate/reimage itself to become competative again in the consumer market. WP hasn't been around long enough to generate that loyal fanbase that would look past being left behind/ignored. I also am very impressed with the way BB10 looks and since I already own a Playbook, I'm familiar with their gesture controls. Plus BB was my first smartphone and it has a special place in my heart.
  • You know, you could have chopped out the entire first half of your post and just said you would consider jumping to BB10 because BB has a special place in your heart. I'm trying to figure out exactly how much more support you and others with your same complaint are expecting out of MS for WP7. If your idea of support is that they should just give you an upgrade to WP8, that is not practical. What else do you think they should do for early adopters besides the 7.8 update?
  • I am assuming you are a WP8 user that either just got your first WP or were at your renewal date so you got a discounted phone. At any rate, how many times have you heard MS make an official announcement about WP7.8? I can count on one hand minus a few fingers. Haven't given a date, haven't even given details beyond the start screen really. That isn't getting support that is completely ignoring something and, possibly, hoping enough time will go by that people might just hit early upgrade and get a WP8 device. Why is it that there are 6-8 different ROMS on XDA with WP7.8 features just for the Titan 1, yet MS who wrote the software can't get an official one out? Even if it is just the start screen with more to come. That's what they did with NoDo. Only thing that did really was bring copy and paste, amongst a couple of bug fixes. And yes my Titan 1 does have one of those ROMs but that does nothing for my wife's Titan II. Any person who looks at it plainly can see MS isn't making this a priority at all and don't seem to be ever. They knew before the Lumia 900 that WP8 needed new hardware. This is about as blatant as you can get. Nokia is working hard for their WP7.8 update because they can't afford to lose their customers.
  • Actually I am neither. I am currently on a 900 and before that I had an LG Quantum. I buy my phones outright and quite often used for a lot less. This means i have to wait for the latest and greatest but since these aren't iPhones the price comes down quickly in a matter of months. Also, i didn't get my first windows phone until earlier this year. So yes, i actually came late to the party. However, i treat updates and the like as what they truly are, a bonus because what in the world were we doing when we were all still using flip phones? If we wanted new features we had to buy a new one because hardware gets old and companies have to make money. It's not that i don't see where you're coming from, but the fact remains that what you are asking if them is not exactly realistic either. I'm not going to list out why they can't/shouldn't give us an upgrade to WP8 but I am going to say that patience is a virtue. If the promises MS have given are too nebulous for you then you are within your rights to switch but I've found that if I just wait a few months, either my software will get the update I'm looking for (WP Mango) or someone will get tired of their shiny new phone and sell for dirt cheap trying to get the latest and greatest instead. I've already seen 920s show up for as cheap as $250 on Craigslist.
  • Windows Mobile had the thing where iOS 5 copied. There is a text or email or whatever in the lock screen, you slide it, and it opens it. IDK why Windows Phone got rid of this.
  • you have to press the notification then slide up the screen and it will open the app/message/email/w.e
  • I know. But when the notification goes away, there is no getting it back unless you go to the messaging app.
  • It's going to be a back and forth battle. BB10 releases WP 8.1 releases shortly after lets see what happens. Two things about BB10
    1. We don't know how much its going to cost
    2. HW, SW, Service ecosystem is pretty weak compared to Windows
  • Not knowing costs beforehand has historically been bad for large-scale launches...
  • I've been convinced WP is better than anything else since I got my HTC Arrive with NoDo. I haven't been convinced that WP was solidified as "another platform". Finally, though, that appears to be changing. The battle for market between WP and BB is going to be the real test to see if this trend continues. It's certainly going to be an issue for WP if previous BB users attracted to something that they've had before. That said, lots of people have or have seen Windows 8; I think that familiarity is a key factor. BB10 will be nice and all, but, once again, there is not the ecosystem. If it's simply going to be tagging along with Android apps, I don't think the average person will look at it as an equal. Further, as nice as BB will inevitably be for enterprise users, the BYOD scenario is far more common than it used to be. For most, though, I think this simply means a BB device plus another personal device (whether WP, Android, or iPhone). It could get rough, but I don't think WP can any longer be classified as entirely unestablished, either. I've talked to a number of family this Christmas who, in talking about smartphones, mentioned that WP8 devices "look pretty good" or "aren't that bad". After promptly agreeing and encouraging them, I realized just how much more WP has become known. Ad campaigns are being seen by lots of consumers for WP8 and Win8. I firmly believe Win8 exposure is excellent for WP8 exposure, too. WP8 is in a place WP7.5 never could have come close to. It may take the marketshare a couple quarters to catch up, or a while for the figures to come out, but the anticipation which has been built, even with somewhat poorly planned launches (Nokia!), has got WP an interested base of people. For now, we don't have to have loyalty from every user. As long as there's interest, we'll get enough consumers to use WP and to be impressed and then to increase WP's popularity further. WP, I believe, is finally on the right track.
  • Over the holidays I was talking to a BB user and he wanted out once his contract was up. He's just has had to wait to long he was finally get his iPhone/Siii. He wasn't thinking about a windows phone but it shows that all the past and current BB users don't think kindly of BB anymore it just took them to long. On the windows phone front I was the only one with one but everyone new what it was and were interested. Also the iPhone fans seemed much less excited about their new phones. Just another iPhone nothing to get excited about. WP8 seems to be really capturing mindshare. As for expanding I am a new user 8x. I'm really liking it.
  • The blackberry brand will hurt windows , i think a lot of people will check them out..
  • I believe that blackberry has waited too long for bb10. I went to my att store to pay the bill, and WP is front and center. Another one I went to on 86th and Lexington in NYC had the same display. The big carriers in the us feel that WP is the next big thing. Microsoft has more funds available next year when they unleash their ad explosion, whereas blackberry won't be able to compete with that. WP is becoming an established brand in its own right and with good sales and word of mouth continuing to grow, things continue to look up for windows and company.
  • Ok , i got that the new blackberry OS is good but the problem is gonna be how they can beat WP8 right now is growing fast and not only that two of the biggest cellphone makers Samsung and Nokia are making cellphones with WP8 adding that and the fact that WP8  is improving a lot with new upgrades and a lot of people has recognized that WP8 is a good OS i think is gonna be really hard for RIM to make a come back so easy .
  • Each OS has their advantages. The thing is that since BB10 hasn't been released yet we don't fully know the problems it will have. We can only guess at what issues it has. The only thing we know about it is what RIM lets us see;therefore, it will only be positive stuff that we know of BB10. Of the bat I can guess there will be issues with the porting of android apps; whether it is security or apps that won't run well. Another thing is the lack of variety in hardware. Android and WP will have a major advantage in that regard against BB10. Finally there is that ugly row of static icon that looks just like ios only with bigger icons. Reminds me of regular not-smartphones OSs.
    Only time will tell what happens. One thing is for sure Microsoft will have to be united rather than divisive to keep the momentum it currently has going, in 2013.
  • Between the lock screen and the tile notification I don't see an issue with WP. If you care that much about being notified you'll pin the app near the top. All the fuss is by people looking for flaws.
    One guy talks about if you don't pin. Why wouldn't you, if you needed to be notified. It's stupid.
    BB will get initial push from loyalists for sure, but the Microsoft money machine will churn on and the OS and ecosystem will continue to get better, it's amazing now, & will continue to hold #3 and eventually get near the top.
  • ^^
    "All the fuss is by people looking for flaws." Quoted for 100% TROOF!