Treo 800w Will Not Arrive Until Summer, Possibly Late Summer

Colligan has got to be the most incompetent CEO in the country. The private equity investors in the company are being snowed and are novice PE investors. The performance of Palm shows and the whole board should be shot for bringing Palm to the brink of irrelevance. Worst descruction of a consumer electronics company in quite a while.
That guy is a complete joker...

I listened to the call also, man that means most likely july.
July? Boy that is wishful thinking...I would say more like mid-September...

If this is true, I for one will not be "waiting"
These days the choices are numerous.

If this is true, I for one will not be "waiting"
These days the choices are numerous.
If Android is the perfect Treo, Then Palm is in real trouble (has been in trouble). Somewhere I saw that the Android will sell more phones than the Iphone. I am disappointed in Palm. I glad I got the Motorola Q9C in the interim. I was so hoping for June 1, guess I will say my new date as July 15 (no the 19th My Mom's BD)
Sorry guys. ED should resign! Maybe put Jon R in charge and roll the dice!

If this is true, I for one will not be "waiting"
These days the choices are numerous.
Does anyone have the email for Roger Mcnamee over at elevation partners? i for one have had it with this CEO. When you think about it--all the innovation from palm in terms of new products came from other people. This guy is killing this company.
Seems like an email campaign to get rid of this Colligen and get some new products out of Palm would be in irder.

Does anyone have the email for Roger Mcnamee over at elevation partners? i for one have had it with this CEO. When you think about it--all the innovation from palm in terms of new products came from other people. This guy is killing this company.
Seems like an email campaign to get rid of this Colligen and get some new products out of Palm would be in irder.
Dumb kids.
Anyhow just because your frustrated Palm wont pump out a shiny treo fast enough for you doesnt mean the CEO is incompetent.
Actually he sounded like he is executing his plan and they are well on their way back to profitablility...
Some people have no hope.

> *Those products are not coming out this quarter.*
Ouch. Earlier in the call Colligan said new Windows Mobile Treos would be released “before the end of summer.” If you're currently entered in our Treo 800w Rumortastic Giveaway, it's time to go update your guess.[/URL]
Funny enough, back in Jan I guessed 11 Aug 08. Palm is spacing their products out... as I said before the linux version will not be seen at a carrier until at least apr 09. At least then... more than likely later, if at all.
Palm is hoping on Android being a flop, which it won't. Access is moving forward with their offerings... WM is going to play catch up with Apple... Android is trying to catch up with apple and MS.
Sucks for palm right now... things are REALLY hard at that company. Hopefully they can convince shareholders that "the future" will be bring glory back to Palm. Right. And the South will rise again.
Whatever....

Even though it sounds way too optimistic now, I gotta stick with my cause. June 20th is the first day of summer, and it hasn't passed yet.
For the cause!

Can't decide which sarcastic reply best fits:
a) What it is is that this baby will be rocking a whole new OS - CairoMob, and Cairo is just running a *tiny* bit behind schedule.
b) C'mon, you know anything demo'd at a Gatesnote doesn't hit market for at *least* a year (hi, media extenders, surface!)
c) Jayzus, Bono has to personally test every foo-ken device personally now, right? Ya got no foo-ken idea what that adds to the QA cycle, now do ya?

We better at least get WM 6.1 (maybe 6.2 or 7 by the time its actually released? ;) ) for our waiting.

Dumb kids.
Anyhow just because your frustrated Palm wont pump out a shiny treo fast enough for you doesnt mean the CEO is incompetent.
Actually he sounded like he is executing his plan and they are well on their way back to profitablility...
Some people have no hope.
Let's see there was the Foleo-
And now long have peopel who bought 700s and 755s been waiting for the 800? Let's see we had launch guess of last summer, then fall, then winter, and prety much every 3 months they push it back to just around the corner. Since they acquired handspring (which got them the Treo) they really have not been able to launch anything market leading. They fired their entire Wi-fi team because they were supposedly incompetent....come on, if you are shaking up the organization and firing people and it doesn't seem to be working and can't get a product out..
or the procuts you can get out -like the foleo --are so bad you have to cancel it because its so bad it embarasses the company and several directors..then yeah--it might be a good idea to look at putting in a new Ceo that can launch products.
Put in Jeff hawkins--or someone with a track record of being able to launch products on time.
Oh and if all of that isn't enough for ya--then go ahead and check out the stock price...its like 4.5 in after hours.
You'd think Palm was selling mortgages not smartphones.

Dumb kids.
Anyhow just because your frustrated Palm wont pump out a shiny treo fast enough for you doesnt mean the CEO is incompetent.
Actually he sounded like he is executing his plan and they are well on their way back to profitablility...
Some people have no hope.
let me count; how many years with the same operating system? The Centro and the 755p with basically no new ehancements

Palm does it again. Delay, delay, and more delay. That's what they are good at now. Can they even survive the summer without a new product?

I don't know why anyone is surprised it's "Late Summer." I'm not. I was really not expecting this until say October 1-ish.
Too bad it'll probably only be for Verizon / Sprint, and not AT&T. :(

If A CEO has to repeat over and over on a conference call his company "has a future"...and "I'm confident we have a bright future"....they pretty much don't. Palm's best bet is to get some profressional management in there and try and turn it around.

Dumb kids.
Anyhow just because your frustrated Palm wont pump out a shiny treo fast enough for you doesnt mean the CEO is incompetent.
Actually he sounded like he is executing his plan and they are well on their way back to profitablility...
Some people have no hope.
[COLOR="Navy">No they are right on the money!! Palm needs a wow factor breakthrough device NOW. Other companies are way ahead of them![/COLOR]

In 3Q we should have the successor to the Tilt, Mogul, Touch, and new WM Standard devices. That doesn't even include new Android devices. The rumors would lead you to believe that the 800w is comparable in specs to the Tilt, which would be a winner TODAY but likely a disappointment in September.
If they end up releasing this anywhere close to the Xperia they should really forget a GSM version or price it at a deep discount to the Sony product.

If A CEO has to repeat over and over on a conference call his company "has a future"...and "I'm confident we have a bright future"....they pretty much don't. Palm's best bet is to get some profressional management in there and try and turn it around.
They did and have... you can only turn a large ship but so fast. edit: I think you are talking an entire new team... sorry did not read your post correctly first time... I agree... 100%. I was thinking the recent management hires...
Yes, they do have a future... if google, MS and access go under... today.:D

Listening to the full call, I don't think that the Colligan bashing is warranted. Sure, Palm's in a tight spot, but they *knew* this would be a tight spot, they *planned* for it by inking the deal with elevation. Palm made a conscious choice to stop putting out the same old stuff and go back to formula. Going back to formula takes a long time.
...all of that said, I do think that August is at least 3 months later than what it ought to be.

Listening to the full call, I don't think that the Colligan bashing is warranted. Sure, Palm's in a tight spot, but they *knew* this would be a tight spot, they *planned* for it by inking the deal with elevation. Palm made a conscious choice to stop putting out the same old stuff and go back to formula. Going back to formula takes a long time.
...all of that said, I do think that August is at least 3 months later than what it ought to be.
I'm not sure what gives you so much confidence it will be August or with the stock at 4.50 after that horrible earnings call they can even last without getting rolled into some other entity.
Oh and it's not bashing Colligan--its recognizing this guy has a fatal flaw. Palm, just like Apple and Rimm is about all about executing and getting out new and innovative products.
Colligan does not have a track record of putting out any new phones. All the new products and ideas came from Hawkins etc. The Centro is really not a step forward--while it does sell well on Sprint--its not the kind of new products that will save Palm. They need to replace him with someone who has done so--either bring back the old guard like Jeff Hawkins or someone from HTC who has lapped Palm in terms of putting out 2-3 generations of WM phones while Palm worked super hard on the Foleo.
Remember when Apple was just about to come out with the Iphone and Colligan publically scoffed at them saying "It takes multiple years to get this right--all this excitement is misplaced"
And how did that work out? This guy fundamentally is not a guy who will bring out and execute new products. We've got Androidm next gen HTC, next gen Iphone (Iphone was developed and now close to lapping Palm a generation on its next iteration this june if not sooner)
People in the lower ranks lose their jobs all the time, Colligan has not been shy about firing entire teams to "clean house". But at this point given he's tried everything, it's time to look at getting a guy who has experience and is comfortable launching new products. AFter all isn't that what Palm was good at before? Isn't that what we've been wanting from them for years?
It's not bashing, it's common sense.
The guy does not even have to have been a CEO as far as I am concerned to get the top spot at Palm --there are senior guys who have a lot of experience designing and launching new products who might be able to save Palm.

I'm not sure what gives you so much confidence it will be August or with the stock at 4.50 after that horrible earnings call they can even last without getting rolled into some other entity.
Oh and it's not bashing Colligan--its recognizing this guy has a fatal flaw. Palm, just like Apple and Rimm is about all about executing and getting out new and innovative products.
Colligan does not have a track record of putting out any new phones. All the new products and ideas came from Hawkins etc. The Centro is really not a step forward--while it does sell well on Sprint--its not the kind of new products that will save Palm. They need to replace him with someone who has done so--either bring back the old guard like Jeff Hawkins or someone from HTC who has lapped Palm in terms of putting out 2-3 generations of WM phones while Palm worked super hard on the Foleo.
Remember when Apple was just about to come out with the Iphone and Colligan publically scoffed at them saying "It takes multiple years to get this right--all this excitement is misplaced"
And how did that work out? This guy fundamentally is not a guy who will bring out and execute new products. We've got Androidm next gen HTC, next gen Iphone (Iphone was developed and now close to lapping Palm a generation on its next iteration this june if not sooner)
People in the lower ranks lose their jobs all the time, Colligan has not been shy about firing entire teams to "clean house". But at this point given he's tried everything, it's time to look at getting a guy who has experience and is comfortable launching new products. AFter all isn't that what Palm was good at before? Isn't that what we've been wanting from them for years?
It's not bashing, it's common sense.
The guy does not even have to have been a CEO as far as I am concerned to get the top spot at Palm --there are senior guys who have a lot of experience designing and launching new products who might be able to save Palm.
Good post... 100% on point....

I think you all need to step back. There's NOTHING out there that is a wow form factor (over the Centro) or even a breakthrough phone with must have features possibly other than the browser.
The CEO was correct about Apple. At this point, we're still waiting for "updates" to get basic standard functions that already exist in Treo or Centros. Apple doesn't nearly have it right. Yet, we do see them in progress, what they do have right is pretty impressive eye candy, and Apple is very very smart about marketing. Anything they do these days is golden for them and they got fans writing glorious blogs the next morning. Palm can't compete with that and they shouldn't try. Best to let it die down on its own and concentrate on what they do best.
Palm is still suffering from actions taken years ago. Not developing a better OS, the focus on the failed Foleo, problems supporting the 700p etc.
They know they can't rip out another 700w with windows 6 plastered on it. The Centro is still a good sign that palm can be innovative given what they had at the time to work with. It's a very nice little phone.
I've no doubt they know they need to wow people with the 800w (and get a foothold back into the BB market) and that their OS and their next much awaited palm (non-qwerty) device needs to be able to compete with the iphone and allow for all the features we've been seeing or hearing from others.

I'm sorry but Palm is done. Their fate was sealed as soon as they decided to develop the Foleo. Who green lights something that out of sync? Anyone who buys one of their products is taking a risk and is making a mistake.

I got a Centro. How risky was that? lol
For many, the treo is the only thing worth having WM on.
Give em time before announcing the death sentence.

seems obvious to me Palm doesn't know how to fix what is broken on the 800w since they still haven't fixed the broken 700wx.
I would like to have one of my expensive phones once just work right from the start.I can hang on a little longer if they get it right the first time.
The unreliable bluetooth on my 700wx is horrible. I need to find a bt headset that works with it and am unwilling to spend big money on one until proven to work.

seems obvious to me Palm doesn't know how to fix what is broken on the 800w since they still haven't fixed the broken 700wx.
Glad it's obvious to you because there are no facts on the ground as of today about the delay.
Some Sprint employees, independent of each other on another forum, stated that a few months ago the 800w was listed in Sprint's database and that Sprint's marketing team was looking for a good time for a release date/how to market the device.
Then poof. The 800w info was pulled and all went silent.
Why that is we don't know. It's either
[LIST]
[*]The device was close to certification but was pulled
[*]The device is being reworked: new feature, new tech, or newer OS
[/LIST]Until the device comes out though, no one knows the reason e.g. is this Palm's choice, Palm's screw up, or carrier change in the order....
The unreliable bluetooth on my 700wx is horrible. I need to find a bt headset that works with it and am unwilling to spend big money on one until proven to work.
There are plenty of reviews and threads in the 700wx forum on this issue and all my BT headset reviews mention experience on the 700wx.

Just let HTC design everything and rebag it a Treo.

But I still have some faith that treo 800w will turn the company around. And the current treo users are stubborn enough to keep the company going for a while.

In this Betanews article Colligan states
It will be Q1 of fiscal 2009 -- between June and August -- when the company is due to bring out its next line of Windows Mobile-based Treos. That introduction, Colligan told analysts, will help stabilize margins mostly because it will be businesses that invest in the product, not general consumers.

I'm not sure what gives you so much confidence it will be August or with the stock at 4.50 after that horrible earnings call they can even last without getting rolled into some other entity.
Oh and it's not bashing Colligan--its recognizing this guy has a fatal flaw. Palm, just like Apple and Rimm is about all about executing and getting out new and innovative products.
Colligan does not have a track record of putting out any new phones. All the new products and ideas came from Hawkins etc. The Centro is really not a step forward--while it does sell well on Sprint--its not the kind of new products that will save Palm. They need to replace him with someone who has done so--either bring back the old guard like Jeff Hawkins or someone from HTC who has lapped Palm in terms of putting out 2-3 generations of WM phones while Palm worked super hard on the Foleo.
Remember when Apple was just about to come out with the Iphone and Colligan publically scoffed at them saying "It takes multiple years to get this right--all this excitement is misplaced"
And how did that work out? This guy fundamentally is not a guy who will bring out and execute new products. We've got Androidm next gen HTC, next gen Iphone (Iphone was developed and now close to lapping Palm a generation on its next iteration this june if not sooner)
People in the lower ranks lose their jobs all the time, Colligan has not been shy about firing entire teams to "clean house". But at this point given he's tried everything, it's time to look at getting a guy who has experience and is comfortable launching new products. AFter all isn't that what Palm was good at before? Isn't that what we've been wanting from them for years?
It's not bashing, it's common sense.
The guy does not even have to have been a CEO as far as I am concerned to get the top spot at Palm --there are senior guys who have a lot of experience designing and launching new products who might be able to save Palm.
I agree with your statements about Ed, but I am not so sure about Jeff H. He kept us on the edge for for 3 years on his mystery device we could not live without, dumped a whole lot of R&D for basically nothing. Yes he and Donna gave us the Treo but here we stand in line waiting. Many of the "Treo Faithful" are using or at least looking at other devices. Dieter is disappointed as well for this long delay. Perry is looking at a Windows Treo. This would not have happened if Palm would have focused on the Treo 900 which they could have delivered last year when Apple released the Iphone. Just my thoughts (fire away)

I TRIED waiting for a Treo 800w. I do like to be an early adoopter and grab the gadgets right away, and I would have had no trouble sticking with the 700wx, but the cronic issues with it were becoming so bad, it was impossible to use. These include
- PIM database getting completely wiped out randomly for no reason (happens every few months)
- Not enough memory for even a month of company emails
- None of the Mobile 6 features
- BAD Bluetooth which would hardly pair with my car, and never gave battery and signal indicators
- A BUZZ on bluetooth,, which others I know with the same phone have
I figured I would try the HTC touch after going back and forth between that and the Q9C for a bit.
Granted, the touch does have some small issues (the psrint music store doesnt work with hi capacity microsd cards - not the TOUCHs fault- there is an issue with attatchments on the memory card) they will be cleaned up with a revision coming SECOND QUARTER which INCLUDES activating the GPS features.
Having no hard keyboard DOES want to make you throw it out the window when you go from a Treo.. But in a few days, it is second hat, and the predictive onscreen keyboard lets you do things with much less presses.
As far as the other features... DOUBLE the memory... A Big huge screen... Sprint TV... No weird database issues... Perfect and solid Bluetooth pairing... The toughfloo interface is more than just a fun skin app... You can scroll throuugh everything in any app with your fingers easily.
It is SO light and small, that when I pick up the 700wx now it feels like something from 1989.
The battery life with the Seido extended battery is great. It has little other features like taking simple tone ringtones and making them polyphonic.
I can go on and on.
I have had a Treo since the 300. I bought it after coming here and readying all about it. I loved it back then. What a great device. From there to the 600, 650, 700wx.
I am not one to "bash" on a company. But for god sakes. I like the Treo devices and features and form factor. This company has not put out a Winmobile for CDMA for 2 YEARS which in tech is like 10 years in the real world.
These other people like HTC put out innovative phones.
Yes, I miss the keyboard. Maybe a few other things. But the pros sue outweigh the cons.
Again, this isn't a rant.. or an ad... but just my opinion. If you want to ask me anything about the touch feel free to do so or PM.
I was going to sell it once the 800w came out, which I thought mught be in May or so... Now it is July... August or who knows. By that time, I will surely be used to The Touch, and whoever said it better come out "fixed".. well no way.... nothing does especially from palm.
How often do you see the most popular restuarant in town go from hours or weights to out of business... Or the same with a new club... or even a company like Poloroid who changed the way peopel take pictures years ago.
Palm, even though it was many incarnations agio, was the first and ONLY truly integrated perfect form factor smartphone. I had one while everyone else was juggling around a PDA (like a Wizard) a cell phone and then later a Blackberry too. They had the lock on this and the lock on innovation.
Now it has become a joke. At least the Centro is around to keep those basic people happy.

I TRIED waiting for a Treo 800w. I do like to be an early adoopter and grab the gadgets right away, and I would have had no trouble sticking with the 700wx, but the cronic issues with it were becoming so bad, it was impossible to use. These include
- PIM database getting completely wiped out randomly for no reason (happens every few months)
- Not enough memory for even a month of company emails
- None of the Mobile 6 features
- BAD Bluetooth which would hardly pair with my car, and never gave battery and signal indicators
- A BUZZ on bluetooth,, which others I know with the same phone have
I figured I would try the HTC touch after going back and forth between that and the Q9C for a bit.
Granted, the touch does have some small issues (the psrint music store doesnt work with hi capacity microsd cards - not the TOUCHs fault- there is an issue with attatchments on the memory card) they will be cleaned up with a revision coming SECOND QUARTER which INCLUDES activating the GPS features.
Having no hard keyboard DOES want to make you throw it out the window when you go from a Treo.. But in a few days, it is second hat, and the predictive onscreen keyboard lets you do things with much less presses.
As far as the other features... DOUBLE the memory... A Big huge screen... Sprint TV... No weird database issues... Perfect and solid Bluetooth pairing... The toughfloo interface is more than just a fun skin app... You can scroll throuugh everything in any app with your fingers easily.
It is SO light and small, that when I pick up the 700wx now it feels like something from 1989.
The battery life with the Seido extended battery is great. It has little other features like taking simple tone ringtones and making them polyphonic.
I can go on and on.
I have had a Treo since the 300. I bought it after coming here and readying all about it. I loved it back then. What a great device. From there to the 600, 650, 700wx.
I am not one to "bash" on a company. But for god sakes. I like the Treo devices and features and form factor. This company has not put out a Winmobile for CDMA for 2 YEARS which in tech is like 10 years in the real world.
These other people like HTC put out innovative phones.
Yes, I miss the keyboard. Maybe a few other things. But the pros sue outweigh the cons.
Again, this isn't a rant.. or an ad... but just my opinion. If you want to ask me anything about the touch feel free to do so or PM.
I was going to sell it once the 800w came out, which I thought mught be in May or so... Now it is July... August or who knows. By that time, I will surely be used to The Touch, and whoever said it better come out "fixed".. well no way.... nothing does especially from palm.
How often do you see the most popular restuarant in town go from hours or weights to out of business... Or the same with a new club... or even a company like Poloroid who changed the way peopel take pictures years ago.
Palm, even though it was many incarnations agio, was the first and ONLY truly integrated perfect form factor smartphone. I had one while everyone else was juggling around a PDA (like a Wizard) a cell phone and then later a Blackberry too. They had the lock on this and the lock on innovation.
Now it has become a joke. At least the Centro is around to keep those basic people happy.
I got the touch for my son and he loves it. did 4000 texts last month, I could not do that without the keyboard (even with a keyboard) I am on the Q9C and will use that until the 800 is released. Left Palm last June with the BB 8830 and just got the Q last month. Palm always disappoints it's faithful.

I'm wanting to see what it's going to look like.. if it's anything similar to the Centro, i'll have to take a pass... I've been debating if I should switch over to the BB Curve when it hits Sprint next month, but I don't like their trackball. I love WM and the touch screen on my 700wx.

I'm wanting to see what it's going to look like.. if it's anything similar to the Centro, i'll have to take a pass... I've been debating if I should switch over to the BB Curve when it hits Sprint next month, but I don't like their trackball. I love WM and the touch screen on my 700wx.
With what you like and don't like, your in a tight spot eh? :)

I think you all need to step back. There's NOTHING out there that is a wow form factor (over the Centro) or even a breakthrough phone with must have features possibly other than the browser.
I'm going to have to disagree with you here. The problem with this is that there ARE, and will be very very soon, if not already. Palm states how they will come out with this cool 800w, and guess what? They will already be 6 months behind the competition. By the time it is out and going, it will be old news.
Take for instance the LG-LH2300 Touch Web phone in Korea.
the LH2300 features a new "Hello UI" riding atop 800 x 480 pixels spread across a 3-inch touchscreen LCD. LG didn't stop with the web though as the LH2300 also packs T-DMB mobile TV, Bluetooth 2.0, microSD memory, and a jog wheel for easy page scrolling. Its 3 megapixel camera sports face recognition and anti-shake tech.
I'd say that's pretty cool.
How about the Nokia N96? I know we dont have it in the US, but look at its specs...
* 16GB internal flash memory, plus microSD memory card slot (hot swappable) for expandability and flexibility
* Approximate dynamic memory capacity indication with 16GB storage:
o Video: 40 hours**
o Music: 12,000 tracks***
* 128MB RAM, 256MB system memory (operating system plus dynamic user data area)
Display and User Interface
* 2.8" QVGA (240 x 320 pixels) LCD TFT display with up to 16 million colors
* User Interface: S60 3rd edition, feature pack 2
* Active standby screen, Multimedia menu
Data Transfer*
* WCDMA HSDPA 900/2100 MHz with simultaneous voice and packet data (PS max speed DL/UL= 3.6Mbps/384kbps, CS max speed 64kbps)
* Dual Transfer Mode (DTM) support for simultaneous voice and packet data connection in GSM/EDGE networks. Simple class A, multi slot class 11, max speed DL/UL: 177.6/118.4kbps
* EGPRS class B, multi slot class 32, max speed DL/UL= 296/177.6kbps
* GPRS class B, multi slot class 32, max speed DL/UL= 107/64.2kbps
Video Codecs and Formats
* MPEG-4 Part 2 (H.263/SP), up to VGA 30 fps, hardware-accelerated codec, scaled to max QVGA on device screen, or max SDTV on TV-out
* MPEG-4 Part 10 (H.264/AVC), up to VGA 30 fps, hardware-accelerated codec, scaled to max QVGA on device screen, or SDTV on TV-out
* Windows Media Video (WMV9), up to CIF/QVGA 30 fps, hardware-accelerated codec, scaled to max QVGA on device screen, or SDTV on TV-out
* RealVideo QCIF at 30 fps
* Flash video support in browser
* DRM support: OMA DRM 1, OMA DRM 2, WM DRM
Live TV
* Broadcast Television (DVB-H) capable
o DVB-H based mobile TV with internal antenna
o DVB-H Class C, 470-750 MHz
Browser-based video access
* Support for download, streaming and progressive download
* Support for Flash video
Radio*
* Stereo FM radio (87.5-108MHz, 76-90MHz) with support for RDS, Visual RadioT and use of FM radio in offline mode
* Nokia Internet Radio
Support for RDS? Now that's cool.
Main camera
* Up to 5 megapixel (2592 x 1944 pixels)
* Carl Zeiss Optics: Tessar™ lens
* Auto-focus, auto-exposure
* F-number/aperture: F2.8
* Focal length: 5.2 mm
* Focus range 10 cm to infinity
* Dual-LED camera flash, video light, recording indicator, auto-focus assist light
Secondary camera
* VGA (640 x 480 pixels) sensor
I'd say those camera specs are pretty awesome. Carl Zeiss!!....What do we have on our Palm? NOT THAT.
Maps and Navigation
* Built-in GPS receiver, with support for assisted GPS (A-GPS)*
* Nokia Maps application
* Free downloadable maps of over 150 countries, millions of locations, location details and satellite imagery**
* Upgrades available for purchase: Multimedia city guides and Navigation services: Drive - voice guided car navigation, or Walk - pedestrian-optimized turn-by turn guidance
* A-GPS is a network dependant feature that requires a data plan. Additional charges may apply.
** Downloading satellite images may involve the transmission of large amounts of data through your service provider's network. Contact your service provider for information about data transmission charges.
E-mail and Messaging
* Easy-to-use email client with attachment support for images, videos, music and documents
* Support for SMTP, IMAP4, POP3, MMS, SMS. Unified SMS/MMS editor
* Compatible with Nokia Wireless Keyboard SU-8W (sold separately)
Browsing and Internet
* Nokia Web Browser with Mini Map, visual history, HTML and JavaScript support, Flash Lite 3.0 and Flash video support
* RSS reader
Connectivity
* WLAN - IEEE802.11 g/b with UPnP support
* Hi-Speed USB 2.0 with Micro USB type B interface
* 3.5mm stereo headset plug , TV-out support (PAL/NTSC)
* Bluetooth 2.0 with A2DP stereo audio and Enhanced Data Rates (EDR)
* Nokia Nseries PC Suite connectivity with USB and Bluetooth wireless technology
So with that said... I'd probably buy that thing.
The point being, is that look what things already have, or are close to having. What do you think some phones will have in the next 6 months?
Palm HAS to step it up. I used to say how I would be fine if it had 4GB of memory built in, a 2MP camera, Wifi, and a few other goodies. But with something like the specs of the N96, I dont think buying the Palm will be worth it down the road.
Palm IS behind, and if devices keep coming out now with specs like that above, or close, Palm wont be selling many 800w or what ever it will be called.
My whole beef with Palm, is that they claim they'll have something that will amaze us, but I doubt it will. The N96 for the most part amazes me.
We know it wont be anywhere near something like the above, but it better not be garbage.
Oh yeah, the N96 only weighs like .3g more than the AT&T Centro.

I would not be surprised if we don't see the 800w until Q4. The chances of Palm "wowing" anyone is pretty slim.
I would not be surprised if we do not see the 800w until Q4. As for Colligan, he couldn't run a lemonade stand. Do you realize the iPhone has had more updates in 8 months than than the Palm OS has had in the past 6 years?

I'm wanting to see what it's going to look like.. if it's anything similar to the Centro, i'll have to take a pass... I've been debating if I should switch over to the BB Curve when it hits Sprint next month, but I don't like their trackball. I love WM and the touch screen on my 700wx.
Hopefully they have done some design changes that are different from the Centro. Hopefully it will have the flat screen like the Motorola Q9c and I hope a little better designed phone than the one that appeared on Gates screen on his presentation.

Just let HTC design everything and rebag it a Treo.
true that!!! palm sucks! here's to hoping that the 800w can compete with my 8525---what happened ed??????? to you and palm:censored: :cry:

Glad it's obvious to you because there are no facts on the ground as of today about the delay.
Some Sprint employees, independent of each other on another forum, stated that a few months ago the 800w was listed in Sprint's database and that Sprint's marketing team was looking for a good time for a release date/how to market the device.
Then poof. The 800w info was pulled and all went silent.
Why that is we don't know. It's either
[LIST]
[*]The device was close to certification but was pulled
[*]The device is being reworked: new feature, new tech, or newer OS
[/LIST]Until the device comes out though, no one knows the reason e.g. is this Palm's choice, Palm's screw up, or carrier change in the order....
There are plenty of reviews and threads in the 700wx forum on this issue and all my BT headset reviews mention experience on the 700wx.
My simple point was that Palm has been unable to fix it's devices, wheather palm os or windows mobile. The 700P I had was the worst phone I have ever owned and the Hitachhi G1000 was pretty bad.. The 700P crashed all the time (no I did not have it loaded with 3rd party apps.) The Bluetooth did not work reliably with any of the four headsets I tried and when they finally posted a maintenance update, that crashed plus didnot fix any thing on my phone. My 700WX has been much better stability wise (no flakier than any other WM phone) but the Bluetooth is almost as bad as the 700P. I have looked at the numerous reviews of BT headsets, but I can't find one that has a majority ruling that it works well. I have found that with the numorous headsets I have tried that some donot work right a way but a few worked ok for up to a week or so before giving problems.
When they show me the 700WX can be fixed, I will be more excited about the 800w, and believe me I would like one for the better screen and wifi compared to the 700Wx I have been using for a year.
Sorry for the rant, but I am about to go back to a dumb phone teathered to a HP Ipaq210 with a readable 4" VGA screen.:(

My simple point was that Palm has been unable to fix it's devices, wheather palm os or windows mobile. The 700P I had was the worst phone I have ever owned and the Hitachhi G1000 was pretty bad.. The 700P crashed all the time (no I did not have it loaded with 3rd party apps.) The Bluetooth did not work reliably with any of the four headsets I tried and when they finally posted a maintenance update, that crashed plus didnot fix any thing on my phone. My 700WX has been much better stability wise (no flakier than any other WM phone) but the Bluetooth is almost as bad as the 700P. I have looked at the numerous reviews of BT headsets, but I can't find one that has a majority ruling that it works well. I have found that with the numorous headsets I have tried that some donot work right a way but a few worked ok for up to a week or so before giving problems.
When they show me the 700WX can be fixed, I will be more excited about the 800w, and believe me I would like one for the better screen and wifi compared to the 700Wx I have been using for a year.
Sorry for the rant, but I am about to go back to a dumb phone teathered to a HP Ipaq210 with a readable 4" VGA screen.:(
Absolutely agree 100%. Blaming this on Sprint is just ridiculous especially when all the carriers are opening up their networks--even Verizon. I can see a 1-2 month delay because of testing say for a Verizon, but Sprint has no record of holding devices up that long. And now most carriers are letting any device on their network even if it isn't purchased for that specific network thus tested for it.
So conspiracy theories blaming bad management and execution, ultimately the responsibility of Palm's CEO on anyone other than Palm is misplaced and logically unsound. Malesta's conspiracy theories have been going for what seems like a year now and it just simply has nothing to do with Sprint, or Verizon or reality. It's a Palm issue period.
The CEO is not the kind of guy that is comfortable launching new products--he is a better Finance or stay the course guy rather than someone who has any experience launching new products or putting out new devices. Palm needs someone, male or female, from HTC or some other organization that has a track record of putting out new products.

Just let HTC design everything and rebag it a Treo.
Yikes, I don't know about that. I know I'm probably in the minority, but I think HTC's "design prowess" is highly overrated - especially when it comes to software. (some of their hardware designs are decent) The difference in performance, stability, and usability between my old 6700 and Treo 700wx was astonishing. For UI responsiveness the 700wx/750 is still quicker than most (all?) current WM6 devices. (despite having less ram and a slower proc)
Palm does a great job of smoothing out the roughness in WM, but I don't think HTC really gets it yet.

Absolutely agree 100%. Blaming this on Sprint is just ridiculous especially when all the carriers are opening up their networks--even Verizon. I can see a 1-2 month delay because of testing say for a Verizon, but Sprint has no record of holding devices up that long.
The most recent I can think of is...
[COLOR="Red">HTC 6800/Mogul[/COLOR]
There are pictures of branded Verizon versions i.e. it was in testing in Dec 2006 (here are some "real" shots from Feb 2007)--it finally launched [URL="http://www.wmexperts.com/articles/verizon_xv6800_kinda_sorta_rel.html">nearly 12 months later[/URL].
Ironically, Verizon had the 800w listed for an "August 2007" launch. Now it's looking like another 12 months--same story, different device.
Sprint said (in their Buzz forums) that they held up the release of their own 6800 to put WM6 on it (guess they forgot it needed more mem though, eh?). Both carriers repeatedly missed and moved up launch windows for that device. They also royally screwed up BT, had not enough memory, did not have Rev A or GPS enabled (GPS is still wonky, btw).4) Why was the Mogul not provided with more memory?
The amount of standard memory on the Mogul was consistent with standard memory allocations for devices at the time it was developed. However, the development timeline was extended when the OS was changed from Windows Mobile 5.0 to Windows Mobile 6 and during that time memory standards increased. We understand the demand for additional memory and have started to increase the amount of RAM in newer devices. The Touch by HTC was recently launched and includes 128MB RAM and 256MB ROM.
So you are very incorrect with the above statement.
How about the Nokia N96?
..........
Palm IS behind, and if devices keep coming out now with specs like that above, or close, Palm wont be selling many 800w or what ever it will be called.
My whole beef with Palm, is that they claim they'll have something that will amaze us, but I doubt it will. The N96 for the most part amazes me.
We know it wont be anywhere near something like the above, but it better not be garbage.
Oh yeah, the N96 only weighs like .3g more than the AT&T Centro.
Here's your issue: You're comparing a N96 to a Treo
Different class of devices, you'll always be dissapointed with Palm. The N96 is a consumer-media fun akin to the iPhone.
Palm WM Treos, have been and always will be for Enterprise, corporations and comapnies running Exchange.
It is not for "prosumers" which is what the N96 is marketed towards. Technically speaking, if you are not a "business person" you should not really be looking towards the Treo 800w.
Should Palm release a "prosumer" device? Sure, but that's a different argument than trying to make the Treo 800w something it's not.
Again, this isn't a rant.. or an ad... but just my opinion. If you want to ask me anything about the Touch feel free to do so or PM.
I can summarize you're entire post:
A new WM device is better than an old one.
That'll almost always be the case with technology.
At least the Centro is around to keep those basic people happy.
Entertain me for a second. Beside mutlitasking (a somewhat over-rated feature, imo), what exactly does the HTC Touch do that the Palm Centro does not?
Pretend I never used either platform (but prepare for my counter as I'm very proficient in both).My simple point was that Palm has been unable to fix it's devices, wheather palm os or windows mobile.
Sorry to hear you are dissapointed. I enjoy my 700wx (though it is old) and it works well with
[LIST]
[*]Plantronics 640
[*]BlueAnt z9
[*]Motorola S9, S805, H500
[/LIST]
And my new Samsung (review coming soon).
I have no problem admitting BT is lacking on the 700wx, but for me it works quite well. It appears they cannot "do" anymore if it's a hardware limitation.
FWIW, the Centro's BT works very well and Palm fixed a lot on that device (compared to the 700p, 755p) so you're above statement is no longer correct, imo, but it was certainly "too little, too late" for many. No argument there.
Also, note what Sprint/HTC say about the Mogul and BT:5) Are all Bluetooth Headsets compatible with the Mogul?
No, Bluetooth headsets are not universally compatible with all handsets. Therefore, issues a user may encounter with a Bluetooth headset may not be attributable to the handset.

The most recent I can think of is...
[COLOR="Red">HTC 6800/Mogul[/COLOR]
There are pictures of branded Verizon versions i.e. it was in testing in Dec 2006 (here are some "real" shots from Feb 2007)--it finally launched [URL="http://www.wmexperts.com/articles/verizon_xv6800_kinda_sorta_rel.html">nearly 12 months later[/URL].
Sprint said (in their Buzz forums) that they held up the release of their own 6800 to put WM6 on it (guess they forgot it needed more mem though, eh?). Both carriers repeatedly missed and moved up launch windows for that device. They also royally screwed up BT, had not enough memory, did not have Rev A or GPS enabled (GPS is still wonky, btw).
So you are very incorrect with the above statement.
Here's your issue: You're comparing a N96 to a Treo
Different class of devices, you'll always be dissapointed with Palm. The N96 is a consumer-media fun akin to the iPhone.
Palm WM Treos, have been and always will be for Enterprise, corporations and comapnies running Exchange.
It is not for "prosumers" which is what the N96 is marketed towards. Technically speaking, if you are not a "business person" you should not really be looking towards the Treo 800w.
Should Palm release a "prosumer" device? Sure, but that's a different argument than trying to make the Treo 800w something it's not.
I can summarize you're entire post:
A new WM device is better than an old one.
That'll almost always be the case with technology.
Entertain me for a second. Beside mutlitasking (a somewhat over-rated feature, imo), what exactly does the HTC Touch do that the Palm Centro does not?
Pretend I never used either platform (but prepare for my counter as I'm very proficient in both).
Sorry to hear you are dissapointed. I enjoy my 700wx (though it is old) and it works well with
[LIST]
[*]Plantronics 640
[*]BlueAnt z9
[*]Motorola S9, S805, H500
[/LIST]
And my new Samsung (review coming soon).
I have no problem admitting BT is lacking on the 700wx, but for me it works quite well. It appears they cannot "do" anymore if it's a hardware limitation.
FWIW, the Centro's BT works very well and Palm fixed a lot on that device (compared to the 700p, 755p) so you're above statement is no longer correct, imo, but it was certainly "too little, too late" for many. No argument there.
Thanks, good points.
I use my Treo for all the same things I use my laptop for, therefore the multitasking is a big issue for me. The 5 months I used the 700P were a real pain.
Lets just hope they get it right at launch and that they launch it sooner than latter.;)

Thanks, good points.
I use my Treo for all the same things I use my laptop for, therefore the multitasking is a big issue for me. The 5 months I used the 700P were a real pain.
Lets just hope they get it right at launch and that they launch it sooner than latter.;)
thx and np.
When you need multi-tasking, you definitely need it and WM is fantastic for that function (I love Slingbox, a2dp while doing RSS and email checks during commericals myself ;) ).
Options are great.

Oh boy, Here Malatesta goes again with the conspiracy theories and downright making stuff up about it being the carriers fault--
Even if HTC 6800 was delayed a few months it didn't stop HTC from launching corresponding models on other carriers well before Sprint. Same as nothing stopping Palm from launching either with any other carrier in existence.
So it stands to reason, your big theory then is ALL the carriers on the entire planet must be conspiring to stop Palm with unreasonable holdups. I am sure Palm has had the Treo 800 ready for this past year, but its just caught up in testing while Rimm, Apple and nokia launch product after product? Palm must get an extra year of testing then while Apple that entered the market with ZERO experiene in cell phones just sailed right through AT&T.
Maybe they just don't like Palm? Maybe they have interpersonal conflicts with all the business developement teams at ever single carrer? Maybe it has to do with the Sunni /Shia conflict in Iraq? This would be remotely plausible if Palm was even a factor in the mobile PDA handset business, a segment it created b but now is in non factor status under Ed.
Or maybe Occam's Razor applies here. Maybe a reasonable sane, non wanna be excuse of a board troll might come to a simpler conclusion? When you remove all of Molesters conspiracy theories and ideas totally lacking any grasp on reality, the simplest answer is correct. Palm has bad management and is incompetent and its their fault not every carrier in the planet holding back the Treo 800.
Palm does not have the leadership in place to launch new products nor the experience base any longer in the company to lead and launch new products which is why we've seen no innovation from the company in years.

Oh boy, Here Malatesta goes again... ...Molesters conspiracy theories and ideas...
Why are you resorting to name-calling?

Oh boy, Here Malatesta goes again... ...Malatesta conspiracy theories and ideas...QUOTE]
Why are you resorting to name-calling?
I have repeatedly said his ideas were ill founded, naive, based on nutty conspiracy theories that were just plain dumb-- not that he himself was.

Please question the theory but don't resort to name calling.

If HTC make a phone that doesnt have the slider keyboard and look like the Treo, then what will happen to Palm?
It seem like HTC come out with their phone quicker.

If HTC make a phone that doesnt have the slider keyboard and look like the Treo, then what will happen to Palm?
It seem like HTC come out with their phone quicker.
i think that palm has some agreement with htc not to design a palm like device because htc manufactures the palm devices for palm. i believe that is the only reason palm is alive still.

Hopefully they have done some design changes that are different from the Centro. Hopefully it will have the flat screen like the Motorola Q9c and I hope a little better designed phone than the one that appeared on Gates screen on his presentation.
I hope that it DOESN'T have a flat screen like the Q9c or the Touch. Too many accidental presses when on the phone. Unless they can build in a PalmOS-like dialer with the option to disable the touchscreen while on a call, keep the screen recessed.

...Different class of devices, you'll always be dissapointed with Palm. The N96 is a consumer-media fun akin to the iPhone.
Palm WM Treos, have been and always will be for Enterprise, corporations and comapnies running Exchange.
It is not for "prosumers" which is what the N96 is marketed towards. Technically speaking, if you are not a "business person" you should not really be looking towards the Treo 800w.
I definitely agree with your last two statements, but not necessarily with the first. I think the iPhone is really starting to bridge the gap. It certainly isn't as capable a business device as even the 700w, but that is almost exclusively due to lack of available software. With the release of the SDK I think you will see this gap close rapidly.
In terms of Hardware the iPhone exceeds almost every device available today, even those considered "enterprise" devices. It's two main drawbacks from an enterprise standpoint, IMO, are lack of hardware keyboard and non user-replaceable battery. The latter is certainly easy enough to remedy. The former...not so much, but not a deal breaker for everyone.
In fact, I think the iPhone's biggest drawback is AT&T! :)
In any case, Palm or whomever keeps pushing the release of this phone back is killing it. It will have bugs, no matter what. There has to be another reason. Judging by past experience there is no way this thing hits the street before Q4...IF we're lucky.

Ok, let me restate that PALM in general and not just the WM version.
I am a business person, and in fact run a small business. Exchange is NOT important to me, and I dont use WM.
My concern is with the new Palm OS if that happens before the Linux system, or what ever Palm claims to release.
Personally, maybe the N96 is NOT a so called business device, but if it can do what Agendus can on the palm, and have POP3 (which it does) that's all I need. I guess Adobe reader, or a way to read PDF files.
Besides that, everything else is just frosting on the cake.
I personally think I could get by just fine as a business owner with an N96
Right now I get such a good deal with Sprint, that I stick with it, and phones they carry.
All I can say is that though I dont need everything the N96 has, my point to my post was how FAR BEHIND Palm will be. Regardless of Enterprise or not.
Look at what is going to be released soon, and look what is not even close to being released. N96 close. Palm whatever...... Not close. The problem is, if Palm doesn't step up their game, people WILL be buying things like the N96 and they will get the job done and then some.

I definitely agree with your last two statements, but not necessarily with the first. I think the iPhone is really starting to bridge the gap.
...
In any case, Palm or whomever keeps pushing the release of this phone back is killing it. It will have bugs, no matter what. There has to be another reason. Judging by past experience there is no way this thing hits the street before Q4...IF we're lucky.
This is certainly true and always welcomed (MS wouldn't have licensed Exchange to Apple if they had thought otherwise ;) ) but I was more or less referring to how Palm views the 800w and marketing of it = Enterprise."...will be the most competitive enterprise solution in the marketplace."
Combined with Palm expects companies not indivduals to buythe 800w tells you they are really aiming at for revenue. This is very different than iPhone, N96, etc. which sort of "throw a bone" towards enterprise, but I highly doubt you'll see companies rolling out en masse those devices to their employees, lol.
It'll be certainly interesting to see if/when it comes out if it has anything that was worth waiting for e.g. QChat, WM 6.1 (or higher), etc. If it has just WM 6.0 and nothing really "wow" then I think we can certainly attribute any delays to Palm. OTOTH, if it has say...the oft-rumored "WM 6.5" which is some hybrid of WM6 and WM7, then we know it was for "other" reasons and was purposefully delayed, much like the HTC 6800 was delayed for 6-12 months on Sprint and Verizon, respectively.I hope that it DOESN'T have a flat screen like the Q9c or the Touch. Too many accidental presses when on the phone. Unless they can build in a PalmOS-like dialer with the option to disable the touchscreen while on a call, keep the screen recessed.
I heard from a very reliable source that Palm has toyed with "flush screens" as recently as the Centro and had working tester versions.
Evidently, their testers did not like the idea as they were constantly worried about scratching the screen. OTOH, "Drucker" was listed to have a flush screen whereas early mockups of the 800w did not--makes me think a re-design may be in the works.
Like I said, if it comes out and has
[LIST]
[*]a recessed screen
[*]no Qchat
[*]no WM6.1+
[*]no new "underlying technology" e.g. chipset, etc
[/LIST]
Then I definitely think we can get the angry mob together...lol.
If it does have something like WM6.5 or QChat and that caused the delay, then we all have to rationalize whether we think that was a good move or not...
I dunno, was the HTC 6800 delay of 6-12 months worth it for WM6 (and the following 8 month delay for GPS/RevA)? Pretty personal choice I suppose (especially with those "downgraders" at ppcgeeks who put WM5 back on :p )
Look at what is going to be released soon, and look what is not even close to being released. N96 close. Palm whatever...... Not close. The problem is, if Palm doesn't step up their game, people WILL be buying things like the N96 and they will get the job done and then some.
No argument there. But Palm knows that 2008 is not their time to compete with Nokia and those prosumer devices--that's just the reality of the situation. At least they are still saying Nova is "on track". If they make it to 2009 and have a new OS--that's when you'll see those devices, suposedly.

Why are you resorting to name-calling?
I can't believe I recall this, but gadgetfreaky has called Mal this before:http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=1366873&postcount=14
Perhaps it's merely a cute nickname between friends. :thumbsup:

I can't believe I recall this, but gadgetfreaky has called Mal this before:http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=1366873&postcount=14
Perhaps it's merely a cute nickname between friends. :thumbsup:
lmao...errr...no :p

...This is very different than iPhone, N96, etc. which sort of "throw a bone" towards enterprise, but I highly doubt you'll see companies rolling out en masse those devices to their employees, lol.
While this is true for now I see things rapidly changing as you might be able to judge from some of the Cisco branded screen shots posted at BGR & Engadget. My brother is a Cisco rep and has told me Cisco has really been on Apple's case to get their Exchange/Security act together so they can roll the iPhone out to their employees nationwide. THAT is some serious revenue. All it takes is one large, respected (and more importantly, embedded in the IT depts of HUGE enterprises worldwide) tech company like Cisco to put that kind of faith in Apple and others will soon follow suit. It is no accident that Apple is allowing Cisco that kind of access.
I swear I'm not an Apple fan boy, just trying to make a point. I would have been first in line to get an 800w when my contract was up in January. I really, REALLY wanted to avoid getting an iPhone. But if the Touch is my only WM alternative with decent specs on VZW I'm afraid that will be the easiest choice I've ever made.

[COLOR="Navy">In defense of Malatesta, AT&T changes and works over so many phones they aren't even the same when they come out!! Plus due to all that, the phones are often delayed. So it's not entirely far-fetched that the carriers are holding things up.
But Palm itself is just as slow IMO. The two together make a bad combination. *It's like Slow and Slower.[/COLOR]

I can't believe I recall this, but gadgetfreaky has called Mal this before:http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=1366873&postcount=14
Perhaps it's merely a cute nickname between friends. :thumbsup:
LMAO

[quote=Malatesta;1424707]Entertain me for a second. Beside mutlitasking (a somewhat over-rated feature, imo), what exactly does the HTC Touch do that the Palm Centro does not?
Pretend I never used either platform (but prepare for my counter as I'm very proficient in both).
I'm all for entertainment. :D
OK... one of the things I've been wanting to do is to use LogMeIn, but I can't do that with my Treo 650... Blazer just doesn't seem to care for it, and from what I've read across the Internet, there is no support whatsoever for LogMeIn on a Palm platform, but there is for Windows.
In fact, it's things like this that have me interested in moving from PalmOS to Windows Mobile... so the HTC Touch has Windows Mobile, and the Palm Centro does not. ;)

[quote=gadgetfreaky;1424719]Oh boy, Here Malatesta goes again with the conspiracy theories and downright making stuff up
I'd be thoroughly disappointed (and not addicted to this board) if we didn't have people theorizing and speculating here. Quite frankly, most of us don't actually know what's going on (and the few that do, if any, probably can't talk about what we want to know), but at least we don't know together.
I suppose that doesn't exactly differentiate our group from any other group of people. :D

[quote=Malatesta;1424805]It'll be certainly interesting to see if/when it comes out if it has anything that was worth waiting for e.g. QChat, WM 6.1 (or higher), etc. If it has just WM 6.0 and nothing really "wow" then I think we can certainly attribute any delays to Palm. OTOTH, if it has say...the oft-rumored "WM 6.5" which is some hybrid of WM6 and WM7, then we know it was for "other" reasons and was purposefully delayed, much like the HTC 6800 was delayed for 6-12 months on Sprint and Verizon, respectively.
I can't quite imagine how you'd justify how to attribute the delays for that criteria. There's just too many variables for me to think that it would absolutely be Palm's fault for a delay if the device has just WM 6.0 and nothing really "wow", for example.
[quote=Malatesta;1424805]I heard from a very reliable source that Palm has toyed with "flush screens" as recently as the Centro and had working tester versions.
Evidently, their testers did not like the idea as they were constantly worried about scratching the screen.
I wonder if they've been using more-easily-scratchable screen materials... haven't many manufacturers gotten over this hurdle?
[quote=Malatesta;1424805]Like I said, if it comes out and has[LIST]
[*]a recessed screen
[*]no Qchat
[*]no WM6.1+
[*]no new "underlying technology" e.g. chipset, etc[/LIST]Then I definitely think we can get the angry mob together...lol. One big mob aw yea aw yea
One big mob aw yea aw yea
Eh bara mala aw yea aw yea
Eh bara mala aw yea aw yea
Red Hot Chili Peppers, anyone? :cool:
[quote=Malatesta;1424805]I dunno, was the HTC 6800 delay of 6-12 months worth it for WM6 (and the following 8 month delay for GPS/RevA)? Pretty personal choice I suppose (especially with those "downgraders" at ppcgeeks who put WM5 back on :p )
I'd say if they put the additional memory in to support WM6, then it would've been unquestionably worth it. Otherwise, gray area.
[quote=Malatesta;1424805] No argument there. But Palm knows that 2008 is not their time to compete with Nokia and those prosumer devices--that's just the reality of the situation. At least they are still saying Nova is "on track". If they make it to 2009 and have a new OS--that's when you'll see those devices, suposedly.
I've read a lot about people's predictions for Palm's survivability, and now I'll share my own. [INDENT][COLOR=DarkGreen]Disclaimer to gadgetfreaky: I'm theorizing and making this up.[/COLOR] ;):D
[/INDENT]Palm won't die for at least another two years, though it certainly could be acquired and shrunk in that timeframe.
Palm's biggest potential appears to exist in the Centro (yeah, tight margins, but it sells) and in their future WM Treos. As much as I've loved PalmOS in the past, it's just not a growing platform. The fact that it's well-established suits it pretty well for the cheap Centro. The PalmOS Treos, on the other hand, are too expensive and not differentiated-enough from the Centro. That, combined with the non-growing platform, is practically a death sentence for those devices.
The next PalmOS (linux-based) is a huge risk. I'd bet that if Palm were acquired before it launches, we'd never see it appear.
The future WM Treos have much more potential than any PalmOS Treo, because they can come out much more soon than the next PalmOS, and because Palm could deliver enhancements on the WM platform that make it a bit more desireable (much like they did back when the launched the 700w initially). Palm could position themselves as a worthy competitor in the WM interface innovation space to HTC, though I really wonder if they have the chutzpah to do it.

I'd be thoroughly disappointed (and not addicted to this board) if we didn't have people theorizing and speculating here. Quite frankly, most of us don't actually know what's going on (and the few that do, if any, probably can't talk about what we want to know), but at least we don't know together.
I suppose that doesn't exactly differentiate our group from any other group of people. :D
True but the theories have to be at least somewhat supported by reality. Using false sources, using factually incorrect statements, bringing up ideas from 2-3 years ago that don't represent current trends in wireless, in fact quite the opposite is not in fact constructive.

[COLOR="Navy">In defense of Malatesta, AT&T changes and works over so many phones they aren't even the same when they come out!! Plus due to all that, the phones are often delayed. So it's not entirely far-fetched that the carriers are holding things up.
But Palm itself is just as slow IMO. The two together make a bad combination. *It's like Slow and Slower.[/COLOR]
He's been grinding that axe against the carriers based on "inside sources" for what a year? How true has it turned out to be? Is it possible for a handset manufacturer to run into problems with one carrier in one country that slows a model down? Sure absolutely--it happens all the time and frequently. VZ tends to hold up phones the phones the most, others not so much.
How possible is it then to run into delays at ALL the carriers across the Planet...for 2-3 years?....Sprint Maybe, but every other carrier on the planet is just holding palm back and preventing it from innovating for 3 years. Is that a plausible thought even though he claims to have all these inside sources?
Let's pause on this idea for just a second. How likely is that to be the true problem here rather than just being a misleading idea that has no grounding in any reality?
This theory as an excuse for why Palm can't get an innovative product out for 3 years not only strains credulity but its a relatively stupid theory.
Just be very careful when you read stuff from this guy. He likes to frequently quote "inside sources" and they often tend to be false or just very imagintative creative "theories". If it's a theory it should be couched otherwise. There is no reason people can't theorize, but they should be supported by facts, rather than imaginary people inside wireless companies telling him things.
For example, I've seen him make up inside sources at HTC telling him something that I for a 100% fact know are not true. I called him on it and he backed off so quick it was obvious he had talked to nobody and had made the entire story up much like this theory on it all being Sprint's fault.
Additionally his theory that Carriers are stopping handset manufacturers does not hold water given many if not all of the carriers are opening their networks to any device that will work on them. Verizon, which has been the worst offender opened its network up.
It creates a vibrant and interesting discussion when people exchange ideas and theories, but not when the sources are made up and one claims special insights when its fake.
I can understand people getting overly excited and wanting to look like they are "in the know" But making up inside sources is not credible and saying it's all "just for fun" is not appropriate. This is supposed to be a forum where we try and figure out what's really occurring in the marketplace..if you want "fun" go to myspace and make stuff up there.
In short, don't make up inside sources just to make yourself look like something you are not.

[quote=gadgetfreaky;1424945]but every other carrier on the planet is just holding palm back and preventing it from innovating for 3 years.
Palm's lack of timely innovation has sucked, in my opinion. I sure couldn't place all the blame for the time between handset launches from Palm on the carriers. I could certainly believe the following:[LIST]
[*]Palm appears to have taken some misguided steps, resulting in a lack of focus on the handset business in ways that have made it less competitive.
[*]For all manufacturers, some carriers are a pain in the :censored: when a timely launch is desired, and I do recall (hopefully correctly) some delays being blamed on "testing", yet even after delivery some of those products didn't appear to be tested well-enough.
[*]I suspect that Palm either doesn't do a good job marketing their products to all carriers, or that many carriers are hesitant to get too involved with Palm, as it's a relatively small manufacturer, and their future certainly isn't obviously fabulous (understatement).[/LIST][quote=gadgetfreaky;1424945]Just be very careful when you read stuff from this guy. He likes to frequently quote "inside sources" and they often tend to be false or just very imagintative creative "theories".
Gosh, aren't all sources codswallop until we hear something from one of the companies involved? Not saying I don't get excited by some of the stuff I hear via "theories", "inside sources", and rumors, but I really ought to reconsider what I'm eating for breakfast if I start counting on those things. :D
[quote=gadgetfreaky;1424945]Additionally his theory that Carriers are stopping handset manufacturers does not hold water given many if not all of the carriers are opening their networks to any device that will work on them. Verizon, which has been the worst offender opened its network up.
Ah... speaking of theories that don't hold water (in my opinion)... please explain (or provide the link where you already explained it) how the fact that the recent opening up of networks to any device would impact phones that entered the pipeline before the network has been opened up. I just don't understand this theory.
[quote=gadgetfreaky;1424945]This is supposed to be a forum where we try and figure out what's really occurring in the marketplace..if you want "fun" go to myspace and make stuff up there.Well, since you're taking the T-Bird away, I'd better get back to work...;)
P.S. Completely off-topic... but I'm very pleased I used the word "codswallop". It's a recent fave... thought I'd share. :D

Yes, my bad everyone.
It is with great displeasure for me to introduce GadgetFreaky...my very own online anti-fan who like to follow all my posts, make incoherent arguments, offer no evidence and joke around how he "used to be" some upper employee of some off the shelf cell company.
Take a gander at his post history and you'll see an overwhelming % are all about me :D, which I have to say makes me very happy...
Enjoy his show! (I can't respond just because he's be "plonked" a long time ago).PS
For those curious about carriers, innovation, etc. and my shady "insider sources" I encourage you to look at such radical readings as the
[LIST]
[*]New York Times (Mossberg)
[*]Wall Street Journal (Vascellaro)
[/LIST]
and senior counsel for the Consumers Union (aka Consumer Reports) and on behalf of Free Press, Chris Murray, who gave testimony before Congress last summer on this issue (warning: pdf).
I should also note, Sprint currently has the Samsung "Ace" GSM locked, so they're still putting themselves ahead of the customer.[COLOR="Navy">In defense of Malatesta, AT&T changes and works over so many phones they aren't even the same when they come out!! Plus due to all that, the phones are often delayed. So it's not entirely far-fetched that the carriers are holding things up.[/COLOR]
They did sorta kill the UI on the Tilt, eh? lol Luckily people can tweak their way around it.[COLOR="Navy">
But Palm itself is just as slow IMO. The two together make a bad combination. *It's like Slow and Slower.[/COLOR]
No doubt.
The 800w should have come out at least a year ago. There should have been a 320x320 750 released as soon as WM 6 came out and we should have many more devices to choose from.
We just have to attribute a lot of this to poor management, bad decision making in the past and the current "transition" process with Elevation (which is "ahead of schedule", whatever that means).
As for "rest of the world" and Palm, considering the US makes up 82% of their sales, getting it right here in the U.S. is critical.
Luckily, unlike GSM here, Sprint and Verizon have a pretty limited and shoddy WM lineup :p . It'd be cool to try the Asus m536 if that's ever released...

[quote=Malatesta;1424994]As for "rest of the world" and Palm, considering the US makes up 82% of their sales, getting it right here in the U.S. is critical.
I keep hearing that, and I keep seeing phones from other manufacturers launched outside the U.S. that many of us wishes we had, and I think, why is it that getting it right here in the U.S. is critical? It seems to me that companies like Nokia and HTC are doing pretty well overseas, such that the U.S. isn't as critical.
Sure, I'd like to see more success on U.S. soil, but I would think that if the U.S. is such a tough market, Palm would work that much harder on what appear to be much easier markets outside the U.S... unless what I perceive is wrong, of course.

I keep hearing that, and I keep seeing phones from other manufacturers launched outside the U.S. that many of us wishes we had, and I think, why is it that getting it right here in the U.S. is critical? It seems to me that companies like Nokia and HTC are doing pretty well overseas, such that the U.S. isn't as critical.
Sure, I'd like to see more success on U.S. soil, but I would think that if the U.S. is such a tough market, Palm would work that much harder on what appear to be much easier markets outside the U.S... unless what I perceive is wrong, of course.
No, it's a good point. I think the issue is for Palm it's "less competition" in the US and they have more cozy carrier relationships.
Euro-land is very competitive and they'd get walloped pretty quickly if they went all out in the shape they are in right now.
Euro = easier to innovate/launch but much tougher competition
US = harder to launch and get innovation through, easier competition

[quote=Malatesta;1425010]Euro-land is very competitive and they'd get walloped pretty quickly if they went all out in the shape they are in right now.
They certainly seem to be in worse shape now than they have been in the past, and such an effort now may be beyond their reach.
Then again, perhaps it's telling of Palm's 'thirst', if I may speculate. After all, wouldn't the level of competition in Europe drive innovation... and then wouldn't that innovation work well when trying to improve their position in the U.S. market?
Who knows... I'm not in Ed's shoes (plus, I doubt he's a size 13), and I can't see all the strings that control the company (should I also mention that I've never worked for a cell phone company? ;))... but I'm a firm believer that if you're going to go out and do something, do it well and make it worth it... don't do it half-:censored:ed.

Who knows... I'm not in Ed's shoes (plus, I doubt he's a size 13), and I can't see all the strings that control the company (should I also mention that I've never worked for a cell phone company? ;))... but I'm a firm believer that if you're going to go out and do something, do it well and make it worth it... don't do it half-:censored:ed.
Agree 100%
That's why I'm not that thrilled with "blame Palm/management/Ed", not because they don't deserve the criticism or because it's not their responsibility (they do and it is), but it evades the real answer--why did they decide to do "X".
Dieter and I often discuss why Palm didn't do a 320x320 Treo 750. Obviously you can just go "Palm is terrible, that's why" but I'm more interested in the real answer, the one that was given presumably during a meeting: too expensive? AT&T not interested? Need to refocus? Tight supply chain?
Who knows. But it would be nice to have some more transparency with the OEMs and the carriers. It'd be kinda nice if Palm just popped on their blog and discuss this stuff but obviously there are things we are not privy too. Then again, a lot can be said for Sprint/Verizon not mentioning the 800w officially...because officially there is no delay, there is no disappointment. Financially, it's obviously a different story.
Hopefully when the 800w comes out, some Palm or leaked info will come out about why it took them so long (that's without judging the reason).
Re: earlier about the flush screens
The material is pretty scratch resistant these days, but from what I was told it was more or less the perception that such a pocketable device would be prone to scratches. Good enough reason? Probably not, but I don't know if its such a big deal on the Centro anyway..

i think the reason palm had done so well in the past was because there was no open market and the competition was very small. after htc, moto, eten, and many others joined the smart phone revolution, palm just rested on their name. though the name was strong, the product showed its age fast because of the rapid acceleration of tech. i was a die hard fan of palm since the 650 days, but palm, in my eyes, has done nothing to hold on to their customer base. many people have said here that the 8525/8925 are very difficult to use and they are not very good to use one handed. i listen to that and agree but laugh at the same time. though i can not use my 8525 with one hand, i have a device which makes the 750 look like a cave man's cell phone---do you have wifi, more memory, a better all around device. and if you have the tilt, go ahead and add gps. if the 800 does not show up soon or it shows up handicapped, the blind followers, which at one time included me, can say good bye to palm

Mal;
In a nutshell and in your humble opinion, why did we not see a 320x320 WM6 755w sometime in '07?
No carrier demand for such a beast? Or was Palm being arrogant/cheap/lazy/complacent etc? I think that a CDMA 755w would've been a natural follow-up to the rapidly aging 700w/wx. Palm did all of the heavy-lifting, formfactor & innards-wise, for the 700p/w/wx/755p, so you'd think a 755w would've been a no-brainer and a nice WM6 stopgap device until the 800w arrived sometime in '08.

We're listening in on the Palm Quarterly Results Conference call and we have some bad news to report. CEO Ed Colligan just confirmed our worst fear, with regard to ?new Windows Mobile Treos,? he said this:
> *Those products are not coming out this quarter.*
Ouch. Earlier in the call Colligan said new Windows Mobile Treos would be released ?before the end of summer.? If you're currently entered in our Treo 800w Rumortastic Giveaway, it's time to go update your guess.
That giveaway, if you didn't know, is that we are going to give away a Treo 800w plus some great extras to a lucky commenter who can guess the release date.
Read more at http://www.wmexperts.com/articles/treo_800w_will_not_arrive_unti.html
On the bright side, Colligan is also saying that the new Treo (which he didn't name, but come on!) ?will be the most competitive enterprise solution in the marketplace.?
Is this the same conference call on which he announced that revenues are down 24%. Do you suppose they will get rid of this clown while there is still some Palm left. This guy is not a founder. He is a caretaker who has not taken care.

A real 800 would be POS and GSM. (We should all live so long.) Who even cares about an 800w/CDMA?
Perry, where are you?

[quote=whmurray;1425237]A real 800 would be POS and GSM. (We should all live so long.) Who even cares about an 800w/CDMA?
Perry, where are you?
I do, and I'm the one who counts to me. :D Seriously, though... once you get a bit of distance outside of Boston GSM is much less available compared to CDMA where I need it. That, and while I really did love PalmOS, well... let's just say I didn't feel loved. :oEven Perry seems tempted.
Follow the happy avatar and watch as the dark side appears to take over... ;)
Hey... what's that pink thing in the sky?

I do, and I'm the one who counts to me. :D Seriously, though... once you get a bit of distance outside of Boston GSM is much less available compared to CDMA where I need it. That, and while I really did love PalmOS, well... let's just say I didn't feel loved. :oEven Perry seems tempted.
Follow the happy avatar and watch as the dark side appears to take over... ;)
Hey... what's that pink thing in the sky?
lol

Mal;
In a nutshell and in your humble opinion, why did we not see a 320x320 WM6 755w sometime in '07?
Honestly, I have noooo idea. Not even a possible rumor on that one.
If I had to guess, it would be this: Old Palm (pre-Elevation) may have had such a device in the works; [COLOR="Red">New Palm[/COLOR] (post-Elevation/restructuring) such a device was nixed by the new team, much like the Foleo and what other "side projects" they had going and which were alluded to in the WSJ article w/Rubenstein.
Such a move would be plausible to make Palm focus on two core areas:
[LIST]
[*]Nova
[*]Total revamp of their WM line (wifi, gps, thinner)
[/LIST]
Centro was kept on just b/c it was probably way too late in the development phase (For the record: Palm was ahead of schedule on that release), but even Rubenstein changed the design a bit. A Treo 755w would have been received as "more of the same" from Palm.
But...I don't think they planned on it taking this long!
I think that a CDMA 755w would've been a natural follow-up to the rapidly aging 700w/wx. Palm did all of the heavy-lifting, formfactor & innards-wise, for the 700p/w/wx/755p, so you'd think a 755w would've been a no-brainer and a nice WM6 stopgap device until the 800w arrived sometime in '08.
Yup, totally agree which is why I find it dumbfounding as well. But, if you look at the "original" slated release dates for the 800w (August 2007 on Verizon; Q4 for Sprint) at the point, they were just updating the 750 to WM6 and a 800w would have over-lapped the "755w" by a 2-3 months--too close for a release.
But, like I said I don't think the 800w was supposed to take this long so now it seems in hindsight that a "755w" would have had a nice 10-12 month run.
That's why I'm real curious as to what happened with the 800w.
[[COLOR="Red">Warning[/COLOR]: Mal theory alert for those too sensitive] :rolleyes:
My gut tells me this: Redesign + Problems (maybe) + WM 6.1 (Read: "Windows Mobile 6.1 to Arrive April 1st?"
Palm is aiming the WM Treo line straight at Enterprise and 6.1 has some essential features for such a group. Much like HTC and the Mogul, Palm may have received the "gold" version of WM 6.1 very recently (Sony and Moto already have; Moto had betas since at least [URL="http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2007/12/07/windows-mobile-61-video-walkth...">[COLOR="Blue">Dec 2007[/COLOR][/URL]...) and had it as an option for the carriers: lets us do WM 6.1 now or "ROM update" later. ROM updating a fleet of 800ws is no joy for IT departments.
Sprint and Verizon could have done a WM5 Mogul (in fact, see it here with WM5 for Verizon) and had it out 6 months earlier, but they held out for WM6 for somewhat obvious reasons.
Normally after MS announces a new version of the OS, there's at least a 2-3 month lag between the announcement and a device is actually released with it. So April--> May, June, July, (August) = "late summer".
That's the only reason I can think of why we so much about the 800w late last year, people testing it, release dates being discussed and then...it was pulled/almost no more info. It's virtually the same pattern as the Mogul.
Now if the 800w comes out and only has 6.0, I'll eat crow and be very disappointed :o But if it does have WM 6.1, then you can be 100% certain that was at the very least part of the reason for the delay.

well someone over on the sprintusers forums posted this... take it for what its worth

Doesn't bring any new information to the table. It's just a poorly put together slide.
--James

Well its a slide that kinda shows how sparse things are for Sprint PDA wise, an area when 1) they used to be the leader and 2) when they were the leader they their company was not hemorrhaging cash. Not a coincidence imo.
If the 3giphone w/ gps is coming out in june (my guess is we'll know for sure at CTIA) then that's a good alternative for the large majority of treo users who value internet browsing and simple but well executed apps. I am pretty sure I will unless the Treo is out before then and/or visible in the supply channel somewhere. I hate to leave Sprint's cheap prices--- even when I was an employee at a wireless carrier in 96-99 I used Sprint...but man they got no good phones these days. More broadly it appears GSM will win the tech war given the utter lack of phone porn coming out for CDMA.

Story is up!http://www.wmexperts.com/articles/rumors/treo_800w_watch_july_on_sprint.html
The slide is from 2/18 so is technically not current, but word is there has not been an "updated" slide either.
Also, since this pre-dates any official acknowledgment[COLOR="Red">*[/COLOR] of WM 6.1, there is still a chance it might be on there.
Confirm/refute anyone?[COLOR="Red">*[/COLOR] Officially, only the BJII and Treo 750 have been publicly named for WM 6.1, although info on Xperia leaked that it would have 6.1 for it's rumored October release as well as BGR's Moto Q9h with 6.1 as well.

[quote=gadgetfreaky;1425892]More broadly it appears GSM will win the tech war given the utter lack of phone porn coming out for CDMA.
I've got no problem with that as long as coverage for GSM catches up to coverage for CDMA in my area. Until then, I'd say that there's probably a significant part of the New England market (based on the few people I know, but that includes taking into account where they try to use their service) that'll lean towards CDMA... whatever weight that has.

I've got no problem with that as long as coverage for GSM catches up to coverage for CDMA in my area. Until then, I'd say that there's probably a significant part of the New England market (based on the few people I know, but that includes taking into account where they try to use their service) that'll lean towards CDMA... whatever weight that has.
I'll kinda go with that, from NYC, to Long Island, Albany, all of CT, Boston and Massachusetts, CDMA is pretty great up here.
And hey, for $1,500 you can get the HTC Shift on Sprint ;)

[quote=Malatesta;1425906]And hey, for $1,500 you can get the HTC Shift on Sprint ;)
I'll get the what for $1500? Oh... that's an 'i', not an 'a'.
Can't be too careful with news from NY these days. :D

I'll get the what for $1500? Oh... that's an 'i', not an 'a'.
Can't be too careful with news from NY these days. :D
:D

I've got no problem with that as long as coverage for GSM catches up to coverage for CDMA in my area. Until then, I'd say that there's probably a significant part of the New England market (based on the few people I know, but that includes taking into account where they try to use their service) that'll lean towards CDMA... whatever weight that has.
ATT should have the best coverage (GSM) because its an older network wth more cell sites on average using GSM..then prolly Verizon altho its a patchwork...then Sprint.......with tmobile the worst.
tmobile is only the worst cuz its the newest..designed essentially from scratch since the late 90s. the rest are mostly legacy.
so surprised your area has spotty att coverage.

[quote=gadgetfreaky;1425973]ATT should have the best coverage (GSM) because its an older network wth more cell sites on average using GSM..then prolly Verizon altho its a patchwork...then Sprint.......with tmobile the worst.
tmobile is only the worst cuz its the newest..designed essentially from scratch since the late 90s. the rest are mostly legacy.
so surprised your area has spotty att coverage.
At the risk of continuing off-topic for this thread...
If I stayed close to Boston, it probably wouldn't matter so much. But I've got a long commute away from Boston, I've got friends all over the area, and that's where AT&T falls on its face. I even used to think that if it would reach the highways consistently it would be OK, but then I talked with a colleague who jumped over to AT&T and travels around the same area a lot. He had found that he loses service on the major highways around here.
I was so very much tempted to jump over to AT&T prior to talking to him. I hadn't heard of AT&T having coverage that matched Verizon's around here, but his experience with his whole family's phones was finally enough detail for me to decide not to even bother trying AT&T.
Verizon always gave me perfect coverage around here, but I found them to be too expensive (not that AT&T's service is any cheaper, but their phones are and recently I wanted a Tilt), so when I upgraded to a Treo 650 I moved to Sprint. Until this past month, I had thought that Sprint's coverage wasn't quite as good as Verizon's, but then I grabbed my old Sprint Treo 600 (I had 'Verionized' it before, then never got around to selling it) and re-activated it, only to find that the coverage is just fine, but my 650 isn't.
I don't know many people on T-Mobile around here... and from what I've heard from the people that have used it, I can understand why.
Verizon, and its predecessor (when I joined) Bell Atlantic Mobile, has been well-known in this area amongst people I know who really needed to be in touch on the road as providing the best coverage.
But I really do wish GSM coverage was widespread in New England. The greater availability of interesting phones, the common technology with Europe (not that I travel much, but wouldn't it be nice?) and many other parts of the world (yes, I know some countries are primarily CDMA), and the ability to specify a call transfer when the phone itself can't be reached are all my reasons for wishing for greater GSM coverage. I'm really hoping that LTE brings about these kinds of changes, but we'll see how it all goes.

yeah I guess I should revise my thinking--
Wherever the carrier had LEC properties it's gonna have the best coverage. So VZ would be best in the east coast given they had all that time to build their network. ATT would be best in the west coast and the south cuz that's where all its Lec properties are.At the risk of continuing off-topic for this thread...
If I stayed close to Boston, it probably wouldn't matter so much. But I've got a long commute away from Boston, I've got friends all over the area, and that's where AT&T falls on its face. I even used to think that if it would reach the highways consistently it would be OK, but then I talked with a colleague who jumped over to AT&T and travels around the same area a lot. He had found that he loses service on the major highways around here.
I was so very much tempted to jump over to AT&T prior to talking to him. I hadn't heard of AT&T having coverage that matched Verizon's around here, but his experience with his whole family's phones was finally enough detail for me to decide not to even bother trying AT&T.
Verizon always gave me perfect coverage around here, but I found them to be too expensive (not that AT&T's service is any cheaper, but their phones are and recently I wanted a Tilt), so when I upgraded to a Treo 650 I moved to Sprint. Until this past month, I had thought that Sprint's coverage wasn't quite as good as Verizon's, but then I grabbed my old Sprint Treo 600 (I had 'Verionized' it before, then never got around to selling it) and re-activated it, only to find that the coverage is just fine, but my 650 isn't.
I don't know many people on T-Mobile around here... and from what I've heard from the people that have used it, I can understand why.
Verizon, and its predecessor (when I joined) Bell Atlantic Mobile, has been well-known in this area amongst people I know who really needed to be in touch on the road as providing the best coverage.
But I really do wish GSM coverage was widespread in New England. The greater availability of interesting phones, the common technology with Europe (not that I travel much, but wouldn't it be nice?) and many other parts of the world (yes, I know some countries are primarily CDMA), and the ability to specify a call transfer when the phone itself can't be reached are all my reasons for wishing for greater GSM coverage. I'm really hoping that LTE brings about these kinds of changes, but we'll see how it all goes.

:D
hahha just saw that you recognized me!:D hahah thats awesome...
Im gonna dig a littler deeper into the 800w mystery, ill report more next week when i find out some more info

Vyruz Reaper, oh I'll be anxiously awaiting for that :-)
just be careful. ..not worth risking you're job for (and I can alaways be contacted via PM)
-mal

Vyruz Reaper, oh I'll be anxiously awaiting for that :-)
just be careful. ..not worth risking you're job for (and I can alaways be contacted via PM)
-mal
Malatesta,
Can you give us a link to check our dates that we indicate the launch date we think it will be?(say for myself; how do we easily find our last post for our estimated date of launch?
2nd, off topic, do you think that Apple will release a treo like iphone to compete with Palm and Android. (I guess android will carry several different designs)

Malatesta,
Can you give us a link to check our dates that we indicate the launch date we think it will be?(say for myself; how do we easily find our last post for our estimated date of launch?
lol, no idea on that one, but whatever was your last post in the thread is the one that counts. So if you were to go and post the "correct" date right now and not add any more guesses/posts, that's what would win (assuming no one got it before you).
2nd, off topic, do you think that Apple will release a treo like iphone to compete with Palm and Android. (I guess android will carry several different designs)
It's hard enough cracking Palm's secret circle--Apple is way beyond my capabilities for guessing.
But seeing as they have had such a success with the current iteration, it would seem silly for them not to consider other options for designs--though adding a keyboard would undercut their earlier arguments for removing it in the first place, so...no front-qwerty, imo.

...so...no front-qwerty, imo.
I agree. I think we will gradually move away from hardware keyboards (although sliders will become thinner first) as other methods of input become available. Thin, foldable/rollup/?holgraphic? screens will proliferate. There is even mobile software being developed to read lips via the onboard camera and convert to text. Keyboards waste a lot of space that could be devoted to the precious screen (or add thickness in sliders).

I agree. I think we will gradually move away from hardware keyboards (although sliders will become thinner first) as other methods of input become available........
And the lack of a hardware keyboard is what leads to a lot of innovation in keyboards, like the Tengo. See tengo.net, winner of pocket pc magazine's award for soft keyboards. They have videos of people doing 75 words a minute. Though with all that repeated tapping, the owner better well have a good screen protector. I've had a Tungsten T3 for some years now, which I use constantly at work. It becomes second nature to push in the spring loaded stylus (which pops it out) when I open the thing. Often I'll use pens which have a stylus at the other end instead. Or a toothpick I just happened to be using....(just kidding!) Touchpal is a good first, but I anticipate more and more finger-tip touch keyboards which won't need a stylus.
Roger

You know, now that Apple has entered the market, what is there really left for Palm to innovate in the smart phone segment. Once the treo 800 is out, what is the cool technology they can intergrate in. It will have GPS, Wifi, hopeully more battery and good battery life. What next? I think once these technologies are integrated in, it will all be battles around power, memory, form factor speed, and maybe interface. Perhaps some OS battles but what else can be done here?

[quote=gadgetfreaky;1426879]You know, now that Apple has entered the market, what is there really left for Palm to innovate in the smart phone segment. Once the treo 800 is out, what is the cool technology they can intergrate in. It will have GPS, Wifi, hopeully more battery and good battery life. What next? I think once these technologies are integrated in, it will all be battles around power, memory, form factor speed, and maybe interface. Perhaps some OS battles but what else can be done here?
Are you saying that it's 'game over' just 'cause Apple has entered the market? I figure that Hooligan[COLOR=Red]*[/COLOR] and company might be more interested in competing on margins, cost-effectiveness, etc, but if they (or any other company) choose to get ambitious, we could see more interesting products. I mean, who thought that sliders would get any more interesting before the Xperia1 was unveiled?
Heck... maybe someone will come up with a flexible phone... one that could survive being placed in a pocket better than a rigid phone. Or maybe they'll put in a TV output or a picoprojector so you can share presentations or photos with others. Or, perhaps they'll concentrate on the PIM apps and make them more smoothly and intuitively integrate with multiple calendars.
A little imagination, and a bunch of money, and hopefully we don't end up with something as poorly received as a Foleo. ;)
[COLOR=Red]*[/COLOR] I just couldn't resist the urge to call him Hooligan... it popped into my head and, well, I usually frown at name-calling and that sort of thing (but I'm all for constructive criticism), but I was just too amused. Come on... doesn't "Hooligan and Co." sound like it should be some company's name anyway? :) Ah, well... I offer my admittedly half-hearted apologies to any offended.
[disclaimer: I spent half the time on this post on the above footnote.]
[disclaimer to the disclaimer: I've apparently given up on sounding serious.]

Are you saying that it's 'game over' just 'cause Apple has entered the market? I figure that Hooligan[COLOR=Red]*[/COLOR] and company might be more interested in competing on margins, cost-effectiveness, etc, but if they (or any other company) choose to get ambitious, we could see more interesting products. I mean, who thought that sliders would get any more interesting before the Xperia1 was unveiled?
Heck... maybe someone will come up with a flexible phone... one that could survive being placed in a pocket better than a rigid phone. Or maybe they'll put in a TV output or a picoprojector so you can share presentations or photos with others. Or, perhaps they'll concentrate on the PIM apps and make them more smoothly and intuitively integrate with multiple calendars.
A little imagination, and a bunch of money, and hopefully we don't end up with something as poorly received as a Foleo. ;)
[COLOR=Red]*[/COLOR] I just couldn't resist the urge to call him Hooligan... it popped into my head and, well, I usually frown at name-calling and that sort of thing (but I'm all for constructive criticism), but I was just too amused. Come on... doesn't "Hooligan and Co." sound like it should be some company's name anyway? :) Ah, well... I offer my admittedly half-hearted apologies to any offended.
[disclaimer: I spent half the time on this post on the above footnote.]
[disclaimer to the disclaimer: I've apparently given up on sounding serious.]
Well I'm sort of saying that yeah--mostly because there were about 3-4 major things that needed doing in the cell phone market and Apple broke a lot of that apart with the Iphone. Is there more stuff? yeah. But once GPS, improved screens, higher battery life etc are all out, then the segment is sort of out of really exiting things that I desperately crave. It'll be incremental improvements in things like connectivity, power, applications, memory, etc...some cross platform products that are part phone/PC etc.. That's my guess at least.

Well I'm sort of saying that yeah--mostly because there were about 3-4 major things that needed doing in the cell phone market and Apple broke a lot of that apart with the Iphone. Is there more stuff? yeah. But once GPS, improved screens, higher battery life etc are all out, then the segment is sort of out of really exiting things that I desperately crave. It'll be incremental improvements in things like connectivity, power, applications, memory, etc...some cross platform products that are part phone/PC etc.. That's my guess at least.
I think we will see two kinds of improvements (other than things like battery life, and such) into the future:
Form factor (one can only guess, but there will be changes as time goes on).
Integration. Integration with, well, everything! Making the phone ever more capable as a mini-PC (or mini-MAC, if you like). Eventually, we may actually see a device that runs an OS sufficiently robust that all normal browser plug-ins (FLASH, etc., etc.) all function normally on the mobile device. There is a long way to go yet in this space.

Remember the story Ronald Reagan used, about the Director of the Patent Office writing to suggest that we could save money by closing the Patent Office because everything that could be invented - had been...........
This letter was written in the late 1800's..............:o

Remember the story Ronald Reagan used, about the Director of the Patent Office writing to suggest that we could save money by closing the Patent Office because everything that could be invented - had been...........
This letter was written in the late 1800's..............:o
I had not run across that. Nice story. I just have been looking for these innovations for a long time and I myself can't imagine what I will need other than GPS, big screens, VGA etc and GPS in the next couple years.
and i think once this latest crop gets out there, most of the innovations for this space seem incremental. One thing I have been tyring to figure out after reading about all the new devices slated for the summer, specifically the iphone 3g, the blackberry 9000 etc is why is battery power still such an issue. Specifically, how do we have a treo 700/755 with 3g on CDMA carriers but its so hard for apple and blackberry to get battery life up for their devices.

Don't forget the vast difference in processor speed (624 vs 412) & creen size between the iPhone & a Treo. The iphone's baterry life, even w/o 3g is quite impressive.

Sorry, meant "screen size." stupid "s" button sticks. Gee I wish I had a new Treo to upgrade...

...I myself can't imagine what I will need other than GPS, big screens, VGA etc and GPS in the next couple years.
and i think once this latest crop gets out there, most of the innovations for this space seem incremental.
I recall thinking very similar thoughts many years ago when I had a Nokia 8290 on Cingular. That phone had an IR port and I subscribed to a per-minute data package that allowed me to put the phone on the table next to my 8-lb. laptop and get on the Internet at some ludicrously slow speed (9600 baud?). I thought, "this little phone is all I will ever need for total connectivity" (leave the Cingular reception / total connectivity jokes aside for a moment). Fast forward to my Treo 700wx with Exchange 2007 integration and it's pretty hard to imagine how I could have thought I was "set" many years ago. I haven't carried a laptop anywhere in about 2 years.

Well, lookee here... Engadget Mobile, who has turned their background (and the main site's background) magenta in what looks like an attempt to thumb their nose at TMobile, reports that Microsoft has announced Windows Mobile 6.1 officially, beginning this quarter.
Possibly more interesting... the list of carriers' devices, which includes:
Sprint: A new Palm Treo and updates for the Mogul by HTC, Touch by HTC, MOTO Q 9c, Samsung ACE

Well, lookee here... Engadget Mobile, who has turned their background (and the main site's background) magenta in what looks like an attempt to thumb their nose at TMobile, reports that Microsoft has announced Windows Mobile 6.1 officially, beginning this quarter.
Possibly more interesting... the list of carriers' devices, which includes:
Sprint: A new Palm Treo and updates for the Mogul by HTC, Touch by HTC, MOTO Q 9c, Samsung ACE
Yea I noticed that too interesting.

Nice catch guys on the 6.1/Treo thing...trying to get dieter to confirm.
gearlog has the same, with a larger quote:Sprint "also plans to launch a Palm Treo with Windows Mobile 6.1 software later this year."
:)

Nice catch guys on the 6.1/Treo thing...trying to get dieter to confirm.
gearlog has the same, with a larger quote:
:)
Mal... check MS press release (near the bottom)http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2008/apr08/04-01WM61PR.mspx

Mal... check MS press release (near the bottom)http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2008/apr08/04-01WM61PR.mspx
Ah! Great :thumbsup:
Well, it's official as that is an announcement of "new phones" and ones getting the upgrade.
Treo 800w = WM 6.1

Ah! Great :thumbsup:
Well, it's official as that is an announcement of "new phones" and ones getting the upgrade.
Treo 800w = WM 6.1
I don't use this word very often as I find it stupid, but WOOOOT!

Official press release regarding WM 6.1 from Sprint also mentions a new Treo. Just more of the same stuff that's been reported by Engadget, I thought it was interesting that Sprint specifically mentioned a new Palm device as nothing has been officially announced yet. I'm actually surprised they even acknowledged it lol.In addition, all of Sprint's new Windows Mobile smartphones launching in the second half of 2008 will offer Windows Mobile 6.1 software, including a new Palm Treo launching later this year. Additional details will be announced upon commercial availability.http://newsreleases.sprint.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=127149&p=irol-newsArticle_newsroom&ID=1124415&highlight=

I was at a Verizon Corporate store today and they didn't have the 700wx in stock. The employee noted that they were not going to be getting more. One could only think that they are ridding their stock of 700wx to make room for a new model?
Any new word out there regarding Verizon's 800w?

I was at a Verizon Corporate store today and they didn't have the 700wx in stock. The employee noted that they were not going to be getting more. One could only think that they are ridding their stock of 700wx to make room for a new model?
Any new word out there regarding Verizon's 800w?
They will be getting more in... or dumping palm altogether.
bottom line is that the treo 800w (or whatever it will be called) will not be available until at least Aug '08, no matter what anyone says.

Well if Mossberg is correct....and the new 3g Iphone is coming out in less than 60 days I gotta figure out if I'm bolting from sprint after a decade with them and a good bulk of that with Treos. What to do what to do.

Well if Mossberg is correct....and the new 3g Iphone is coming out in less than 60 days I gotta figure out if I'm bolting from sprint after a decade with them and a good bulk of that with Treos. What to do what to do.
I can't leave sprint due to sero... they have me bent over a barrel... lol

I love Sprint with my SERO. Save me tons of money! ATT suck!

As someone that uses a somewhat bulky LCD projector all the time, the picoprojector is something I really look forward to them integratingAre you saying that it's 'game over' just 'cause Apple has entered the market? I figure that Hooligan[COLOR=Red]*[/COLOR] and company might be more interested in competing on margins, cost-effectiveness, etc, but if they (or any other company) choose to get ambitious, we could see more interesting products. I mean, who thought that sliders would get any more interesting before the Xperia1 was unveiled?
Heck... maybe someone will come up with a flexible phone... one that could survive being placed in a pocket better than a rigid phone. Or maybe they'll put in a TV output or a picoprojector so you can share presentations or photos with others. Or, perhaps they'll concentrate on the PIM apps and make them more smoothly and intuitively integrate with multiple calendars.
A little imagination, and a bunch of money, and hopefully we don't end up with something as poorly received as a Foleo. ;)
[COLOR=Red]*[/COLOR] I just couldn't resist the urge to call him Hooligan... it popped into my head and, well, I usually frown at name-calling and that sort of thing (but I'm all for constructive criticism), but I was just too amused. Come on... doesn't "Hooligan and Co." sound like it should be some company's name anyway? :) Ah, well... I offer my admittedly half-hearted apologies to any offended.
[disclaimer: I spent half the time on this post on the above footnote.]
[disclaimer to the disclaimer: I've apparently given up on sounding serious.]

I love Sprint with my SERO. Save me tons of money! ATT suck!
yeah I know att sucks. but a 3g iphone with GPS and maybe even an OLED screen with that crazy nice resolution.
all out probably in 30-60 days or sooner.....i can't resist.

If they would only just at least announce the 800w I would be much happier to wait. At least when they showed off the 700w I knew it was going to happen and it made it easier. I have now been eligible for my Verizon phone upgrade discount for 5 months now and still Palm has not released this. I want to give them my money but they aren't giving me anything to buy! In over 2 years too! The 800w better be awesome and live up to the rumored specs (and Verizon better not kills those features either).

yeah I know att sucks. but a 3g iphone with GPS and maybe even an OLED screen with that crazy nice resolution.
all out probably in 30-60 days or sooner.....i can't resist.
you would be crazy to leave sprint's sero plan just for the iphone. You are gonna have to pay at least double maybe even triple what you payon sprint for the iphone. Not to mention drop another 6 bills for the iphone all together

hey guys could u explain to me what exactly the sero plan is and how do u get it?

There are many sites about sero plan if you do google search and here is one:http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=8879&t=716694&highlight=sero

Yes, let's not turn this into yet another SERO hijack thread.

you would be crazy to leave sprint's sero plan just for the iphone. You are gonna have to pay at least double maybe even triple what you payon sprint for the iphone. Not to mention drop another 6 bills for the iphone all together
Probably 20 bucks more a month...but I get an Iphone.
Sprint has nothing that's comparable and hasn't had a treo upgrade in 2 years + and there aint no guarantee we'll get one any time soon boys.
Like what's the average life expectancy then compare that with Palms product life cycles. Life is short, the decision seems clear.

Yes, let's not turn this into yet another SERO hijack thread.
Eh, that's what we get for being Treo fanatics. CTIA has come and gone and all we hear about Palm is crickets chirping. It's no wonder threads about the 800w are sailing off-topic.
The Sony Ericsson Xperia is looking really interesting. If they pull it off, I might consider going back to a slider phone. And it'll probably be released on a GSM carrier before the 800w comes out for Verizon anyway!

I briefly left Sprint for ATT and the Tilt. I loved the Tilt but ended up going back to Sprint because the ATT HSDPA network was nowhere near as extensive as Sprint's EVDO network in the areas I used it in. It also didn't help that the ATT service cost a little more than double than what Sprint was charging me and ATT didn't offer any insurance for the phone either. For anyone that is going to switch, I would recommend opening up a new line of service first (with a new number) and testing out the ATT network by taking advantage of the 30 day guarantee. If you decide the network offers sufficient coverage and you want to make the switch, you can port your number then, no need to do it immediately. That way, in the event you decided you wanted to stay with Sprint, you would still have your plan and wouldnt have to start a new contract.

Eh, that's what we get for being Treo fanatics. CTIA has come and gone and all we hear about Palm is crickets chirping. It's no wonder threads about the 800w are sailing off-topic.
The Sony Ericsson Xperia is looking really interesting. If they pull it off, I might consider going back to a slider phone. And it'll probably be released on a GSM carrier before the 800w comes out for Verizon anyway!
i really thought we would have a 800 sighting from somewhere. well, the news is getting worse for palm as we speak.http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/04/08/palm-announces-larger-than-expected-q3-losses/

I briefly left Sprint for ATT and the Tilt. I loved the Tilt but ended up going back to Sprint because the ATT HSDPA network was nowhere near as extensive as Sprint's EVDO network in the areas I used it in. It also didn't help that the ATT service cost a little more than double than what Sprint was charging me and ATT didn't offer any insurance for the phone either. For anyone that is going to switch, I would recommend opening up a new line of service first (with a new number) and testing out the ATT network by taking advantage of the 30 day guarantee. If you decide the network offers sufficient coverage and you want to make the switch, you can port your number then, no need to do it immediately. That way, in the event you decided you wanted to stay with Sprint, you would still have your plan and wouldnt have to start a new contract.
Well I actually am not on a SERO plan, SERO is far better than my current pricing- prolly by 10-20 bucks. But that's a good strategy I think. I am not under contract.
Supposedly they are turning on large amounts of their 3g network...hence the big deal around all their phones being 3g within a couple months. But yeah I should really check and see how their network is in San Francisco/northern cali where I use it.
Apple is just innovating so much on the software side around the things I care about web browsing/email, GPS and overall integration of information. I am not a fan of not having a keyboard but it seems like if this thing is out in 60 days..there is no guarantee there will be a TREO 800 any time soon. things get delayed etc. and Palm just doesn't come out with products on an acceptable cycle. once a year or at least once every 2 years. Apple seems to be on the ball.
I could unlock it and go over to T-mobile but the truth is Sprints network is perfect for how I use phones. Always has been. Just they got no good phones.
Plus the topper on the cost savings issue is I see a lot of 16 yo kids with Iphones--if they can afford it so can I. lol.

i really thought we would have a 800 sighting from somewhere. well, the news is getting worse for palm as we speak.http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/04/08/palm-announces-larger-than-expected-q3-losses/
Oh, God...
now a 57 million loss? Maybe this is how they planned it. :D

I think I'm gonna cry.... Although I'd be absolutely thrilled with the 700wx with wm6...... :sigh:
btw - theog - 01000011 01100001 01101110 00100000 01000010 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01010100 01110010 01100001 01110000 01110000 01100101 01110010 01110011 00100001
:)

I briefly left Sprint for ATT and the Tilt. I loved the Tilt but ended up going back to Sprint because the ATT HSDPA network was nowhere near as extensive as Sprint's EVDO network in the areas I used it in. It also didn't help that the ATT service cost a little more than double than what Sprint was charging me and ATT didn't offer any insurance for the phone either. For anyone that is going to switch, I would recommend opening up a new line of service first (with a new number) and testing out the ATT network by taking advantage of the 30 day guarantee. If you decide the network offers sufficient coverage and you want to make the switch, you can port your number then, no need to do it immediately. That way, in the event you decided you wanted to stay with Sprint, you would still have your plan and wouldnt have to start a new contract.
I did the same with VZW but sent the Tilt back after I discovered it could not/would not render a web page I need in a readable form. Tried a number of browsers as well. No Joy. Great handset, loved the 128MB of RAM, but poor network service where I live. HSDPA was great where you find it, but it seems to be in only bigger cities right now.
If the Titan/Mogul had 128MB of RAM, I would still have one. Too bad the TILT is GSM only.
RMD

I briefly left Sprint for ATT and the Tilt. I loved the Tilt but ended up going back to Sprint because the ATT HSDPA network was nowhere near as extensive as Sprint's EVDO network in the areas I used it in. It also didn't help that the ATT service cost a little more than double than what Sprint was charging me and ATT didn't offer any insurance for the phone either. For anyone that is going to switch, I would recommend opening up a new line of service first (with a new number) and testing out the ATT network by taking advantage of the 30 day guarantee. If you decide the network offers sufficient coverage and you want to make the switch, you can port your number then, no need to do it immediately. That way, in the event you decided you wanted to stay with Sprint, you would still have your plan and wouldnt have to start a new contract.
I recently left Sprint for AT&T to. I agree that HSDPA isn't quite as extensive as Sprints EVDO network. Sprints EVDO netwok is almost everywhere the PCS network occupies. I had to leave because my voice coverage where I live now was becomming unbearable with dropped calls. AT&T seems to be better than Verizon where I am and further north. I do get awesome HSDPA speeds near the city when I am at work. AT&T 3G coverage is spreading outward more toward the suburbs where I live because my BJ II picks up 3G in the southern areas of my area as I head to work.

Why is that Palm lost money?
All you have to do is come up with innovative product quicker.
If HTC is making their own PPC, then why would they be any quicker to help Palm?

[quote=Malatesta;1427685]Ah! Great :thumbsup:
Well, it's official as that is an announcement of "new phones" and ones getting the upgrade.
Treo 800w = WM 6.1
I guess this means you've officially avoided eating crow. :D

I guess this means you've officially avoided eating crow. :D
I'm pretty close I think...:D