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I won't support the Cerulean Moment, and neither should you — but Microsoft ought to

Having passion in this world is respectable, but it can be tough.

It's even harder when a company has that passion and is trying to do good, but you have to take them down a peg. The WhartonBrooks Cerulean Moment is such an example. The initiative is spearheaded by a company with the right intentions: to give fans a new phone with Windows 10 Mobile. But it's struggling against significant odds.

As of now, the Indiegogo funded Windows phone is stalled at less than $30K of a needed million dollars. With a month left in the campaign, the chances of the Cerulean Moment being successful are very low, making my little advice column here moot. But hear me out.

I think it's important to point out a few reasons why Cerulean Moment is destined to fail. Also, WhartonBrooks is taking the lead on this project, but it shouldn't have had to.

Confused messaging

It's accurate that WhartonBrooks slightly overpromised and under-delivered with the Cerulean Moment. Some of that falls on Windows Central as a site, too, and our editors have had some important internal discussion about that.

For clarity, the Cerulean Moment is based on the nimble and well-built Coship Moly W5 (not the Moly X1).

The Moly W5 is a phone of much higher quality than its original $199 price point suggests. Our Cerulean article confused the Moment with the Moly X1' specifications, and the design is the slightly newer Moly W5.

Regardless of the phone's origins, it's still just over a year old if the Indiegogo campaign succeeds. Luckily, WhartonBrooks updated the specifications, and I mostly agree with those choices. They're quite significant. Here is how the two compare.

Moly W5 vs. Cerulean Moment

CategoryMoly W5(New) Cerulean Moment
Display Size5.0-inch LTPS Display5.0-inch LTPS Display
ResolutionHD (1280 x 720)HD (1280 x 720)
CPU1.1 GHz Snapdragon 2101.5GHz Snapdragon 617
CoresQuad coreOcta core
Peak download150 Mbps300 Mbps
RAM1GB3GB
ContinuumNoYes
Internal Storage8GB32GB
microSD expansionYesYes
Chargingmicro USBmicro USB
Camera8MP rear
2MP front
13MP rear
5MP front
FlashYesYes
Battery2250 mAh2250mAh
Bluetooth4.04.1
Thickness7.3mm7.3mm

The Cerulean Moment with the Moly W5 as its base and the new specifications is honestly a tempting phone. I would have preferred USB Type-C and a fingerprint reader in 2017, but the metal and glass Moly W5 / Cerulean Moment is like the Alcatel Idol 4S in quality and feel. It even is reminiscent of an Apple iPhone 4 with less bezel and more display.

I've had a Moly W5 for months, so I know exactly how it compares to other Windows phones and even the Moly X1. I never reviewed it due to low interest. The original specifications also made it hard to love.

Nonetheless, it is a phone I've used myself (well, on occasion, I'm not entirely giving up an HP Elite x3). The size, build quality, and specifications make it a compelling entry-level phone. It fills a gap for Windows phone users.

I'm a bit upset that such a phone with that newer hardware won't be happening. A small, nimble, glass and metal phone with a five-inch display is desirable. Banging out text messages or listening to Groove would be like the good old days.

Besides the messaging, the Moment's branding and even its name did this project no favors. The whole way this was sold to the Windows phone fan base was just wrong and misleading.

What bothers me the most is had the Cerulean Moment been presented in a different manner with less hype, more of you would want this phone and would be willing to fund it.

That, however, leads me to my next point.

Crowdsourcing is lame (for phones)

When it comes to crowdfunding projects, I have mixed feelings on the topic. I contribute $200 every year to RiffTrax through its Kickstarter campaigns. I've invested in a few bits of technology, even the Purple Pillow (opens in new tab).

The issue is risk. It's there for the project leaders, it's there for those who invest, and it just seems odd for things like phones, which need ongoing support.

People do not like to buy phones sight-unseen. There's a big reason why, especially in the U.S.: people buy phones in stores still and not only online. Without a presence in physical stores and no carrier connections, any such project is a hard sell. Whether it is BLU, Funker, Coship, Alcatel, or even Acer, people want to see the phone first.

I still fondly recall walking into a Sprint store exactly ten years ago to mock the Palm Centro, only to walk out with one twenty minutes later. That was a surprise. In fact, the Palm Centro and the Cerulean Moment have a lot in common.

Despite how terrible things are for Windows 10 Mobile — and they are bad — it should not be left to the fans to fund such a project. It's admirable that someone would lead this charge for the fans, but it's also a bit insane.

Desperation is never flattering. It says a lot if Microsoft can't even support this project, or, rather that they let the ecosystem get so sad it has to come to this.

Microsoft should fund the Moment

All of this leads me to a weird conclusion.

I like the Moly W5, but not enough to tell you to buy one. However, putting in a modern octa-core processor, bumping the RAM to 3GB, and making it Continuum-enabled is much more enticing. In fact, I wish I had one. It'd be the first small, high-quality Windows phone since the Lumia 730, but metal and glass.

It'd be like the iPhone SE, but you know, fewer apps and more social stigma.

Kidding aside, I don't think consumers should have to risk buying this phone, nor do I believe that it even has a chance of hitting a million dollars to be funded. That makes any rationalization here silly.

Instead, Microsoft should step up and give WhartonBrooks and Coship (or whoever the ODM is) a million dollars to fund the project. Then let whoever wants to buy one order it for $175 with some of the original $290 cost subsidized by that million bucks. Remaining phones and inventory can be sold through the Microsoft Store online and maybe even a few stores.

Of course, in no sane world will that happen, and I'm saying this mostly in jest.

There would be no point except for doing the fans a solid, which makes zero business sense for Microsoft. But whatever, it's not my theoretical million dollars, so I'm going to tell Microsoft to grab it from their $113 billion offshore surpluses and fund it. Maybe Microsoft can write it off as a charity?

On a more serious note, this phone may simply be coming at the wrong time.

Coship Moly W5

The Coship Moly W5, a.k.a. Cerulean Moment, is actually a really nice phone.

Rumors are picking up that Windows 10 Mobile is winding down as Microsoft replaces it with Windows 10 on mobile, or Windows 10 for ARM. I've already written how if that is the case, Microsoft needs to be upfront with everyone, so noble but ultimately ill-fated endeavors like this don't happen.

See Cerulean Moment at Indiegogo

The Cerulean Moment at another time could have been a novel device for a distinctive phone OS. But we don't live in that world anymore, and the chances of the Moment being anything more than a fantasy is nil. If Microsoft doesn't help its phone fans neither can WhartonBrooks, despite all the best intentions.

As a long-time fan of Windows phone, I would take a Cerulean Moment with those specs at the right price. It's just a shame that this is where things are for Microsoft in 2017.

Daniel Rubino is the Executive Editor of Windows Central, head reviewer, podcast co-host, and analyst. He has been covering Microsoft here since 2007, back when this site was called WMExperts (and later Windows Phone Central). His interests include Windows, Microsoft Surface, laptops, next-gen computing, and arguing with people on the internet.

211 Comments
  • Oh dear.... :/
    Why can't things happen in a good way in 2017, at least?
    .
    Daniel does make a good point but deep down, I wouldn't have wanted to read this article nor would have wanted Daniel to write it!!
  • I figured that this was coming, his and Zac's commentary in last week's podcast about this tells it all. 
  • https://youtu.be/Icng5MHp7T4?t=11m29s
  • At least in part, the Cerulean Moment seems to be a victim of Microsoft's terrible messaging on the future of W10M.
  • Completely agree with you on that one, Jez!! I wish Dan and Zac ask Dona Sarkar, *something* related to Mobile in today's podcast but there's very less chance.
  • This is really scary
    .
    "Rumors are picking up that Windows 10 Mobile is winding down as Microsoft replaces it with Windows 10 on mobile, or Windows 10 for ARM. I've already written how if that is the case, Microsoft needs to be UPFRONT with everyone, so noble but ultimately ill-fated endeavors like this don't happen.".
    .
    They've never been upfront with *anyone* regarding mobile.
  • IMHO, W10ARM is going to take at least 2-3 generations to make it into mass appeal affordability. W10M "should" still have a place filling that gap. UWP gives it a viable store. Even in Maintenance Mode after RS3 it couild live that long.
  • What makes it unaffordable? I'm not critiquing, I'm just curious. Snapdragon 835 might be a higher than avg priced arm processor but that would change in 6-12months. Are there other requirements that would make it unaffordable? Possibly, a full W10 install??
  • There very well might be licensing for Windows 10 on such devices... But look at Surface 2-in-1. They are costly still and we are in the 4th gen. Surface Book in 1st gen cost plenty. And Surface Studio starts at $3000. Surface Mobile or whatever is going to be the 1st gen W10ARM and I'll bet dollars to donuts that it comes with a hefty price tag. Other OEMs jumping in for second gen would be designing their own 1st gen (for them) lines. 1st gen is always costly in tech. History has proven the lesson over and over again. Early adopters help defray the R&D costs, then production ramps up and lessons learned help reduce costs down the line. But 1st gen always costs. New players (imitators) can bring cost down, but only slightly when they first jump in. Getting new tech within reach of average consumers always takes time.
  • LOL But that's the truth. After my 950xl, ain't gonna buy another w10m until the ARM is out. That would be a waste of money.
  • LOL But that's the truth. After my 950xl, ain't gonna buy another w10m until the ARM is out. That would be a waste of money.
  • LOL But that's the truth. After my 950xl, ain't gonna buy another w10m until the ARM is out. That would be a waste of money.
  • LOL But that's the truth. After my 950xl, ain't gonna buy another w10m until the ARM is out. That would be a waste of money.
  • LOL But that's the truth. After my 950xl, ain't gonna buy another w10m until the ARM is out. That would be a waste of money.
  • LOL But that's the truth. After my 950xl, ain't gonna buy another w10m until the ARM is out. That would be a waste of money.
  • Damn man?
  • Victim...more like a casualty I think.  Confusion and bitterness are pretty rampant these days.
  • So true. You would think that Microsoft would be giving tremendous support to a company which has publically announced it is 100% devoted to Windows 10 Mobile and making it succeed. If there really is a future in W10M, or Windows 10 on ARM, or both, THIS is the company with whom Microsoft should be collaborating. Or at least let Greg the CEO know (under NDA, of course) that his plans are destined to fail because of Microsoft's undisclosed battle plan to kill the platform. Point is... COMMUNICATION, COMMUNICATION, COMMUNICATION!
  • They pissed away $7 billion on the Nokia aquisistion, what's a million to help these guys out? Yea, I already know there is no demand for WP.. ''
  • Yup. Exactly. Unfortunately, there are a million things that have suffered as a result of Microsoft's terrible messaging.
  • They are victims of bad business decision to invest in dying OS. No matter how good or "not so good" hardware part of the device is.
  • Great article Dan, I do agree with the great points here. The timing isn't great and Microsoft is very far from operating in the red. If I'm not mistaken, wouldn't this be cheaper to do over what they did with buying the Lumia branding and assets a few years back?
  • The author says it doesn't make business sense for Microsoft and is correct. End.
  • Yes, it doesn't make business sense, but at the same time, does it make a lot of sense to expect a very small base of users to support this 100%? Not knocking their campaign or MS, just generally acknowleging this.
  • No. It makes sense to no one except perhaps Coship as they probably got paid. Bro's wife will probably leave him over this too...
  • The market has spoken, and unfortunately there aren't enough users who want Windows 10 Mobile, no matter how it's funded or which OEM produces it. NuAns tried and failed also. 
  • There are users! But with that price tag it is silly. In Poland for that money you can buy a new 950 on auction. So I really don't know what they expect from this Kickstarter.
  • The market hasn't spoken. The market has no attractive choices to speak of. I *reluctantly* pre-ordered a GS8. There's nothing on the shelves that's new for WinMob. There's no communication from MS about the platform or any hardware. The market wants applications and content and that's what is lacking in the OS. Using sales data without any deeper data doesn't provide enough information as to the "why".
  • I kinda think that the market has been speaking since 2010.  It's been an uphill battle for a very long time.  Even with a pretty steady flow of really nice Windows Phone devices from 2010 to 2015, unfortunately, not enough people bought into the ecosystem.  A lot of people did buy Windows Phones, but we are where we are today because there simply weren't enough sales to keep phone manufacturers intersted in producing more Windows Phones.  A combination of lack of sales, lack of interest from manufacturers, and an odd lack of promotion/interest from Microsoft, itself, made it simply impossible to get those needed applications and content.  It's a bummer for sure, but a situation that has direct explanations as to why we are here.
  • It doesn´t, but only if you look at this specific product.  If we look at the big picture what Microsoft is doing makes even less sense.  The "End" you are pointing is not about Cerulean, it is at Microsoft Windows as a whole.  Microsoft will be the next Amazon in the future, no OS, only working as a background cloud service.
  • Amazon does have an os, which is a customized Android. With that said, Windows still thrives in the desktop and laptop world.
  • @lippidp. Yes, in certain regards it makes zero business sense. But in regards to retaining some sort of foot hold on the mobile space and telling developers and OEMs that they are committed to Windows 10 Mobile would speak volumes. Granter it would be a temporary "band-aid" or "plaster" but it would go along way in saying "we believe in UWP, so should you". There is no UWP play without smartphones. No matter how much you dice it. People don't use many apps on a desktop. We're solely app centric on smartphones. So you need to look beyond the box and at the bigger picture.
  • Say what you will about HP, when they killed webOS they took it out back and put a bullet in it. Microsoft seems to be a fan of starving W10M to death. One more week ...
  • This is their typical MO, launch a product with lots of hype, under invest in it then radio silence when they decide to kill it and let it slowly slide into oblivion leaving everyone guessing before the next "huge" announcement which all the fan sites will jump on, conveniently forgetting the abandoned product. Just watch, by the time build is over no one will be talking about W10M, all the "buzz" will be about the next big thing aka distraction that Microsoft will announce....
  • Actually pretty accurate. We will all be excited, it will take them too long to get to market with it and we will then have to wait while the abandon that and come up with another idea. Rinse, repeat.
  • I guess all those updates we've been getting this year were part of my imagination. They might not be adding features but they are supporting and doing something.
  • WebOS is not dead. It was bought by LG and is used as their Smart TV OS. It works pretty well, a few missing apps aside. It and its apps do manage to get updates. 
  • Lol
  • Lol so true
  • They are probably not gonna update old Lumia's to the Creators Update BUT it's finally started to work well now!! Solid build.
    .
    Creators Update IS THE NEW THRESHOLD.
  • If MSFT could get 10 on ARM working on a sd820, I bet they could offer it as an optional download or via WDRT for sd810 on 950XL when the time comes, even if full windows takes up half of the 32Gb storage, sd card could hold most apps, photos and videos.
  • I seem to recall making a comment along these lines last week. I think the key to understanding whether or not W10M in it's current form is going to continue lies in those large police contracts.  MS can't make commitments like those if they plan on outright killing W10M as those are measured in years.  But they certainly need to remove the uncertainy surrounding the platform.  Awfully hard support something like the Moment (and I did) if there is a possibility that devices running W10M might be orphaned completely in a year.  
  • "There would be no point except for doing the fans a solid, which makes zero business sense for Microsoft." Actually, doing your fans a solid can make a lot of business sense, for those companies that know how to think long-term.
  • True and I thought about that as well, but being honest here the chances of that being justified to accounting is pretty low.
  • Especially after an $8 billion write down. The amount of money that MS has burned on mobile is really staggering when you take a second to think about it.
  • I think MS not stepping in would tell you all you need to know about W10M. They have almost no partners left (T-Mobile apparently just dropped the 4S). If they had any interest in keeping W10M going, they would probably look for a way to throw any company using the OS a lifeline. The sad reality is, changing it to Windows 10 for mobile won't fix anything. Consumer and developer confidence couldn't be any lower. Well, I guess it could be about $30k lower. 
  • agreed
  • "Microsoft should fund the Moment" I thought the exact same thing
  • Why? The HP and Alcatel phones are already out there, neither has sold. I don't understand the point of funding another OEM to make another phone that won't be profitable either. What's the point?
  • It'd be just for the fans, but yeah, it doesn't make much sense.
  • I actually asked Greg about Microsoft funding the this effort some time ago. The answer as you can imagine was a "no" because MS is supporting HP and Alcatel.
  • Even if MS brings the new mobile device next year, there will still be phones for some time and even for Android or iOS the smartphones will still be the thing, even if they are the same every year currently. So considering the billions you mentioned MS having offshore, they could have helped WB in their W10M efforts if they are not doing that themselves
  • To us it does not.  To Cerulean it does.  I asked this in the forums, and want to know why any OEM would release anything at all.  WB/Cerulean apparently have plans for more already released out in another Article.
  • Agreed. This was doomed to fail from the start, and I thought it would never even see the light of day. If HP, Alcatel, and all the other phone makers can't sell WP's then how on earth would WhartonBrooks? While I admire this guys enthusiasm, it just won't work if MS continues to be so apathetic towards mobile.
  • Ya.  Somehow someone knows something.  Between them and Microsoft.  WB is a startup company.  A startup for Windows and Windows Mobile.  So, if you were to do a startup company, would you pick Windows 10 mobile as one of the focuses.  Maybe not, unless you know of the potential down the road. It is an investment, and I hope more news surfaces soon on what these investments mean long term.
  • Unfortunately it is an investment, and the investor backed out. MS has not had a great track record as of late in mobile, so why would anyone have faith in them now? It may be that there is potential down the road (I really hope there is), but when is the last time MS delivered on "potential" in mobile? The same could be said as to why Samsung, or any other phone maker doesn't make WP's anymore, maybe they saw that potential and said thanks but no thanks. While I hope MS has some tricks up their sleave that will change the future of their mobile efforts, I'll believe it when I see it. And unless its something absolutely amazing windows mobile is done.
  • Well, I am not sure how I could get HP x3, Idol 4s and even if I could I am not sure if I would have that budget. WB resolves those problems. On the other hand, they need just 3000 users. I am pretty sure that there are at least few hundred people that claim that they are 'fans' just on this site. But somehow they don't want to vote with their money.
  • It depends. I need numbers but the store I know in Salt Lake said they have business people come and buy the HP pretty often. I bought the HP. It is divine.
  • Which store, the Microsoft one?
  • Yes sir. At least by what a rep said a couple weeks ago. Maybe just her experience, maybe she spoke relatively buy she did mention it when I said that she might be surprised I'm buying one. And she replied , "oh, you have a business on the side? Business guys actually come pretty often for one.
  • Ok, well, the couple dozen guys in Utah demographic seems to be strong... The phone has gained zero traction in over a year since it was first announced with enterprise or business customers
  • @bub78
    "People do not like to buy phones sight-unseen. There's a big reason why, especially in the U.S.: people buy phones in stores still and not only online. Without a presence in physical stores and no carrier connections, any such project is a hard sell. Whether it is BLU, Funker, Coship, Alcatel, or even Acer, people want to see the phone first." Microsoft products will most likely never sell well if those who work in carrier stores don't sing its praises.  That's where it begins and ends.  From day one that has been my complaint.  Go into a carrier store, ask for a Windows Phone, carrier employee tries to sell you an Android or iPhone.  Even if there is a Windows device to sell.  The IDOL is not even in all TMobile stores in the town I live in.  Out of 4 stores only one of them carry that phone for Windows.  And it doesn't even have it out on display.  No matter what Microsoft does if they cannot fix that issue the results will continue to be the same.  IMO.  :(
  • Maybe you can call it a vicious cycle, but carrier stores aren't going to keep phones on the shelf that aren't selling. And honestly at this point how would you sell someone on a W10M device? What benefits are there over iOS and Android? For the average consumer a W10M phone has reduced functionality compared to the competition; there's no incentive to buy one.
  • Well, that's not a 'problem' any longer, since there literally isn't new hardware available running W10 Mobile.  Even HPs device was only purchasable either directly through HP online or Microsoft stores, and even the Microsoft retail stores recently stopped selling the x3.
  • Actually, Alcatel 4S was pulled from T-Mobile store yesterday. So.....
    I'm praying to all almighty Lumia gods that my 640XL lasts till next year, because my $288 backup plan was just euthanized. Despite that roadblock, I'm not sure I agree MSFT should have funded this. They should have been honest and told WhartonBrooks not to do make this device and provided them a solid reason as to why. MSFT clearly has completely different plans with mobile.
  • 1) Majority of Windows mobile fans are once nokia fans. 2) Be it low end or mid or high nokia devices are far superior than this odm unenthusiastic device. i mean if this company is passion as you say they would have designed their own device. 3) Right now MS or Windows fans doesn't care about windows mobile they are migrating to ios and android. some are stuck with windows mobile. 4) Windows mobile is dieing. slow death, upon new release devices which run windows 10 have been decreasing. 5) MS is slow. continuum is irrelavent infact windows mobile 10 doesnt have any feature by which it can distinguish. samsung have glance screen(even more modified one), wireless charging(fast support), excellent camera( okay lumia software have good features that said many buyers are happy with what samsung provide), iris unlock, dex( right now fine compare to continuum). apart from all those it have more than what MS can provide. 6) MS embrace android or ios. even they dont use xamirn or port their apps to windows 10 (ha port). 7) chinese xiaomi, huawei, oneplus, leco, coldplay, gionee good luck with competing with them. 8) Should MS must invest ya when they believe in their product. right now no one think MS believe it. 9) if Samsung provided more mp camera, stereo sound, dual camera, different fingerprint placement, more ram, no bixby button i would have bought one which replace my unwanted L950xl with display dock. 10) i suggest all MS fans, Windows fans, Nokia fans, please dont invest on mobile or accessories which run windows 10 mobile. buy android install all MS apps which are better than windows mobile, buy ios install more MS apps than android or windows mobile. if you really want continuum which i doubth you guys will use as i used once or twice for 5min from past 1yr buy dex from samsung yup all MS office apps works same as they are on continuum.   Windows central app is available for android but android central,crackberry etc are not available for windows. So, ya buy android install windows central app.
  • "9) if Samsung provided more mp camera, stereo sound, dual camera, different fingerprint placement, more ram, no bixby button i would have bought one which replace my unwanted L950xl with display dock."   The placement of the fingerprint scanner on the S8 is the result of a last minute decision. They intended the tech to go underneeth the screen on the front but the folks at Samsung responsible for developing that tech didn't deliver it on time. On the Note 8 (assuming Samsung is daft enough to continue the Note line) at the very least but for sure on the S9 that fingerprint scanner will be gone from the back.   I agree on the more MP for the camera but not because it needs it. Because it would help a lot with zooming after-shot (and obviously would help compose sharper pictures). Dual cameras are a gimmick.
    Bixby is that sort of thing that by the S9 will likely be dead just like S voice. Not only it's not launching with the phone, 99% of people worldwide won't even have access to it. If you want to replace the L950, get the S7. It's now half the price of the S8 and if we exclude DeX and the processor, it's a nicer phone overall (better battery, better one hand usability). Then when the Note 8 or S9 come out you can re-evaluate the offerings on the market.
  • i'm sure i8 will have fingerprint under display, i think they will continue note line, ya Bixby is unwanted add on hope it die soon alteast they remove that button. i taught dual camera was more than gimmick by apple implementation which can be used for zoom and bokesh shots. No man i'm not going to buy S7 because if i manage to use L950Xl for another 4months which i think i can i8,note8 will be released. anyways i will wait and watch till i get excited to buy new device.
  • I believe I read that iP8 is having trouble getting that fingerprint reader in the optimal place, too. Bixby has potential. I particularly am intrigued with the Vision portion. Nokia was doing some of this in Windows. It won't die as tgey have bigger plans for Bixby than being a phone search engine. They want it to bring their products together. Fir now they want it to do tasks on the hardware. I can see using it to say, "send this picture to mom" and it just does it. Hopefully, they will work with Googje to manage the confusion of overlapping functionality.
  • S8 vs S7??? S8 for that screen. S8 because it has tge radio for Gigabit wireless before we can even use it. S8 because its the first phone with Bluetooth 5. S8 will have better battery life than S7. S8 has more RAM. S8 camera has same lens, but newer sensor and processing. S8 will be more durable with newer Gorilla Glass. Really though...that screen! Give yourself some short-term future proofing with the S8.
  • Sorry, but I'm already dependant on fluid computing offered by Windows 10 and Continuum.
  • good for you.
  • Screw Nokia, they almost singlehandedly destroyed the future of WP/WM. MS needed a strong dedicated hardware partner and instead they ended up with a desperate basket case who pretty much extorted them into a buyout. In hindsight MS should have let Nokia go to Android (briefly, before going to the wall), spent that $8B on WM instead, and trusted that better partners like HP would step up.
  • What are you talking about? Nokia were the most dedicated hardware partner for Microsoft, in fact the only one. And they put more effort into WM than Microsoft did. Their devices, prior to MS buying them out were compelling. MS are the ones which screwed up be acquiring them.
  • I loved my 920 too, but great devices is not enough to make a great partner. WP was a Hail Mary for Nokia, it didn't complete and they ended up dominating a platform they couldn't make any money from. I don't think they planned it, but they ended up in a position where their best option was to use their market share to force a buyout. $8B is a heck of an opportunity cost, MS could have developed multiple iterations of surface phone with that money.
  • Megapixels don't make the camera. Camera on the Galaxy S7 is one of the best in mobile right now.
  • Megapixels **alone** don't make the camera. I think processing is at a point where they can and should have bumped the S8 up from 12. There's no downfalls in noise at 20MP now and they could have boosted the lossless zoom range.
  • All i want before anything is Microsoft to hold an event and bring up mobile... See them explain what their plan is or if there is a plan to begin with. Negativity around MS mobile went very quick even tho I'm happy with my MS phones. But now even i am starting to look on if i should get away from Windows mobile and head for iOS or android maybe next year or so, Something i don't want to do at all. But if MS keeps up by not bringing new phones with better stuff over the upcoming years. I just have to. Phone tech keeps getting better and that's something i want too.
  • I dont only want to hear the plan,I want Nutella to stand up and explain while he knowingly played a word game with the term "Mobile" in order to get us to continue throwing money at a product he knew he was trying to kill. That's the real question.
  • People heard "mobile" and expected something as a new device to hold in their hands. Not "mobile" as in like driving a car or riding a bike going places aka being "mobile". So yeah i agree. We need something fixed and honest on mobile devices.
  • He knew what people would think. And he definitely knew what was being said after he said it and did nothing to correct the perception. He deceived intentionally, knew people saw that, and hid. Real stand up guy.
  • Well.. We can only see what happens in this year. Tbh I'm not expecting much to none for mobile.
  • Exactly. There really isnt much to expect since we all know he decieved everyone. He will now come out and clarify what he "actually means" a year later, after he has poached money and backing from us all.
  • From very early on Nadella specifically spelled out that mobile was not about the device, but about the user.  It was also clear that from the beginning, he invested heavily in getting top-notch Microsoft apps running on iOS and Android.  It's not his fault that people believe what they want to believe, rather than what is being plainly said and done.  
  • It was also very clear, that he said MS was going to continue developing phones for consumer, business, and Enthusiasts. There is a way to be clear, and Nadella was not. It was wordplay. I have been a fan, and have really enjoyed MS products. I visit the MS Store just to see if there is something else there I want. I am very disappointed in Nadella and how he has killed Windows Mobile. I have never said that in the past, but today, it is evident. And now, mine and a whole bunch of other users have frequent random restarts on the Lumia 950xl....all of our batteries suddenly went bad LOL...I am now officially jumping on the "Dump Nadella bandwagon"
  • Two issues.  First, mobile-first was never primarily about devices, it was about use.  Nadella was very clear about this, no "wordplay". Secondly, Microsoft DID release four phones around the W10M launch -- 550, 650, 950 and 950XL.  That was delivered on.  So, again, no "wordplay" or deception. Now, what DID happen was that the hardware, especially the 950 XL, had serious quality control issues.  Also, what happened, is that W10M was nowhere near ready for prime time.  Even here amongst fans, the general concensus is that it was a year until W10M was approaching reliability. So, Microsoft horribly biffed the execution of W10M and at least the 950 XL hardware, especially the former.  It's not for nothing that Joe Belifiore went on long-term gardening leave right around the time of the W10M release; it was a disaster.   So, after yet another failed OS reset (the third in six years!), and massive hardware issues, and continued market share and money losses, Microsoft decided that phone hardware was not a business they should be in.  I agree.  And the stock market agrees.  
  • I still the message needs to be clear...as it stands today, there isn't just joe and suzzies that didn't get that message....many many industry followers have been very confused with the message of to Phone or not to Phone. MS never provided a clear message. "will you do phones?" they say "Microsoft is committed to the future of mobile"......and then they go silent. I don't think they have been clear....the industry followers don't think they have been clear. Even if you can go back and read there "crypted" messages, today, the only thing clear is that they were never really clear. They have gone silent. If they are done with it....just say it. This relationships stinks!
  • A number of messages are crystal clear.  Microsoft is all-in on succeeding as a software and cloud company in a mobile market utterly owned by Android and iOS.  Microsoft is not a phone hardware manufacturer.  Microsoft does not see itself being competitive at the OS level in the current smartphone market.  These three points are clear as a bell, and have been for some time. What's unknown is what Microsoft's next mobile OS move will be, given the above.  We have hints.  Windows on ARM.  Windows 10 Cloud.  It's a very important thing for Microsoft to get right, given the past failings (almost exclusively due to Ballmer) and the increasing competitive threat that Android especially presents to Windows desktop.  In due time, we'll know.   BTW, it's a fair distance from claiming that Nadella has been deceptive (he hasn't) to "the message isn't clear".  
  • Nothing is clear, because many of us see this clown being canned in the next year. At which point im sure they will back off this cloud crap that is going to be a dime a dozen and not worth a penny. If they dont figure out a way to get Windows more into the Mobile sector they will be extinct in the next 7-10 years.
  • Exactly. If he is being so clear as the poster above thinks, then he has to know no one got his message...comeback out and say you are OUT....even though you knowingly implied the opposite.
  • Yeah...then tell Daniel and the rest of them that, because they thought the same thing. Keep apologizing for his dud.
  • Keep misunderstanding actual data and projecting your bitterness onto others.  
  • Lmao. What does data have to do with Nutella's double talk? Lmao. Nice try...using big words doesnt always make you look smarter.
  • Shame.  Repeated use of Lmao does wonders for you.  
  • Hey...if what you are saying is comical, you should expect a "LMAO".
  • I think Nadella was VERY clear about devices:
    "If no OEM stands up to build Windows devices we'll build them. There will be Lumia devices. So I'm not afraid of saying, okay, it's all about the OEMs, or it's all about the ecosystem. It's about Windows. It is about the overall health of Windows and being grounded in any given day's reality, but having ambition of where the market is going versus being bound by current definitions."
    Nadella reiterates the message later on:
    "If there are a lot of OEMs, we'll have one strategy. If there are no OEMs, we'll have one strategy. We are committed to having the phones in these three segments. And I think the operational details will become clear to people as they see it."
  • Tell that to the guys writing for Windows Central. Many have made it pretty clear that Nutella was very deceptive.
  • So where are these Phones?
  • Yes, that was the plan.  And four devices were released, and failed miserably.  So, new plan.  Or are you saying that a company can't change plans in the face of massive failure?   BTW, there have been at least three OEM's that have released since W10M, in addition to Microsoft: Acer, Alcatel and HP.  So, again, nothing deceptive.
  • Not "plainly"....very coded and vague.
  • Clear as a bell to those actually paying attention.  
  • He is a rat, through and through.
  • No.  He did'nt....SOME people were just not keen enough to pick up on what was going on.  Thats why I ditched after windows 10 was offically released, and the backpedaling began with the 1020 and other denim phones being left off the w10 upgrade path,  as well as the projects being cancelled one by one.   People who suck around were either, A. To jaded to see what was happening (when Nadella himself was using iphone),  or B. To big of a fanboy to admit that windows 10 mobile was tanked.   which it is...Nadella never said mobile on MICROSOFT OS.....He said Microsoft and mobile....meaning MS services on mobile devices...which is exactly what we have.   
  • Really? You dont think with today's world that he didnt know most people think "phone" when you say "Mobile"? What are you? His lawyer? Lol
  • QED
  • I agree....if Nadella/MS were clear, they would have said "Mobile means this and that and then that and them.....and NOT REALLY PHONES"
  • Nope...not at all...Just smart enough to see what was happening LONG AGO....thats all!
  • Yep, you're a genius...
  • I have been ******* right so far!  Have I not?
  • Right about what? I have been saying Nutella is lying he whole time. So I guess I have been right also. So your arguing for me. Thank you.
  • Unfortunately, you've been right so far. People confuse mobile and mobility of experience, which is what Nadella was talking about all along. My gut tells me that this year's Build will tell us a lot what will be / will not be happening in 2018.
    If this Build turns out to be UWP reboot 3.0, we may be looking to have lots of Android phones on MSFT store shelves next year, because they've tried (failed in) everything else. The more and more I think about it, I start to agree with Thurrott about MSFT porting UWP to Android and not the other way around, even if that would mean the death of W10 destop for consumers. That way, UWP apps could run on 80% of worldwide mobile devices and give the devs an incentive to use Visual studio. You can kind of see the sign already - support for Linux, Bash, Xamarin, they are building the VS framework to be more platform agnostic.
  • Let's be honest....no consumer really knew unless they had a crystal ball. There were always signs of an uphill battle, but MS also delivered signs that gave us Fan(boys) hope they were mounting a big comeback. For you to make it so grand that you ditched windows mobile isn't that big a deal....there were only two options, go with Windows Mobile or go somewhere else.....it wasnt like you developed some complex algorithm to calculate a conclusion. Heck if I was like you, I would not have owned a Surface Pro 3 and 4.....the writings were written all over those walls as well.
  • Yes,  shitcanning the entire mobile divison, CEO using Apple phones, Dropping support for needed phones to keep the system running, ditching the "projects" needed to bring apps to the ecosystem....ALL SIGNS that MS were mounting a comeback....Retrenchment...another massive positive sign.  Come on SeeVuPlay.   All the signs pointed to microsoft saying EFF IT to phones for mobile.  
  • Really? You expect most people to do research into what phone the CEO is using, looking into what "projects" are getting what funds? Get real...
  • It was common knowledge.....By the time they decided this,  there was only fans left for users...writing is on the wall.  SIMPLE.  Too bad fanboys have the windows blinds closed and live in their little bubble of denial! It was common knowledge that Nadella was using iphones and that they announced the shitcanning of the app projects.   Common users were already LONG GONE.  
  • It will never be common knowledge what brand of phone any given CEO is using...
  • He has been on stage at microsoft events with his iphones.   WOW people...
  • I dont thing that means (necessarily at the time) that windows phones were not being developed. I bet he uses google search too, but bing is still being developed. You could have easily been on the other side of the coin.....MS had phones that they cancelled, which showed there were still phones being worked on. You couple that with Nadella saying he wanted to launch innovative devices and being committed to mobile....and so there was no clear path that to lead one conclusively to arrive at today and the state of windows phone. After all, Nadella cancelled the Surface Mini because it wasnt good enough....and then Bam! Surface Pro 3. I bet he was using an Ipad at the time too, but that didnt stop them from sinking billions more into the money oit know as Surface. Everyone was calling for MS to give it up......same as they have with WINDOWS PHONE.
  • Again...I go back to the Car analogy.  Its exactly like the CEO of BMW driving a Mercedes to work....SIMPLE....he would be fired!  Canned, bye bye!
  • @missionsparta Meh, you haven't been following MS either long or closely enough if you find this surprising. I've been pointing out for years in the forums how MS' corporate speak must be analyzed. Basically, anything you think may be implied, no matter how reasonable it seems, must be ignored. Anything that isn't 100% explicit is meaningless. The term "mobile" means nothing. Certainly not W10M. I'd love to agree with you. I don't think you are unreasonable. It's just that at no time during the last 10 years could any comment made by MS be interpreted in a simple, intuitive, casual, non-analytical way. That has never worked. I'm not hopeful it ever will.
  • Meh, nothing.
  • I'm in the same boat pal, I just love my Lumia 650, albeit being a little too underpowered, it's just great. The other day I was talking with my GF, which she has a Lumia 640, and tell her the actual situation with Windows 10 Mobile and she says "oh, so sad, I like my phone very much". I have invest so many time with this platform (not only Windows 10 Mobile, but Windows Phone overall), and I don't know if there is a way to migrate everything from W10M to iOS or Android (like contacts and stuff). In the end is just sad to see something you really like being in this bad shape, and you can only expect to see if things get better or just wait to see it's death.
  • Federico, I went iOS for my primary phone some time ago.  All my emails, contacts and calendar items were in my live.com account.  Everything migrated automatically when I entered the credentials into the iOS mail app.  Seamless.  
  • Really? Thanks! That's really good to know; I believe I'm going to wait a little longer to see what MS has to say about W10M (or not say anything) and if there is no apparent light in the end, I'm gonna buy an iPhone 6 or something.
  • Cheers.  That's what I'm running, an iPhone 6, and I've been very happy with it.  I'm pretty sure that the Apple store has a 14-day, no restocking fee, money back policy, so it's pretty easy to check it out with no commitment.  Support is also very good; my wife shattered the screen on her 6, and Apple replaced it in-store, in about one hour, for $100.  
  • I believe we don't have an 100% Apple Store here in Mexico, there are some official retailers, but who knows, I'm going to go and see what they have. Thanks pal.
  • Each day it becomes more and more difficult to be optimistic about the platform that we all love.
    I was so optimistic a year ago, and now I'm struggling to stay optimistic. I still use my Lumia 950 as my daily driver though, and I love it- just wished Microsoft was the same (in loving their platform).
  • When MS showed off the bridge tools to port apps, the initial continuum announcement, etc. it seemed like they were really going to make a push into mobile and some exciting things were coming. Nothing came of those announcements. The bridge tools are hardly used, continuum is lackluster and hasn't had any meaningful updates in 18 months.
  • Sorry, but Microsoft doesn't back the phones it directly produces...im going to be a little pissed off if they start dumping support into this project while my 950XL lemon is being butchered by the warranty work they passed off onto B2X.
  • Take into account that in Brazil, we don't have any windows 10 mobile phone being sold. The Cerulean moment will have an exclusive campaing on indiegogo for Brazil, and it's really important for it to succeed, since a lot of people can't just import a 950/xl.
  • When will that happen?  If this current one fails, I will jump into that one if I can...
  • They posted a lot of info this week on their brazilian facebook page. I expect the campaign to go live this next week, but it's jsut speculation of my part.
  • This!
  • You are hitting a point here Dan.  It would make sense for the Cerulean Moment to have made a different entrance. I agree with the points made on choosing a device, being able to see, and use it before we buy it.  Reviews are key!  I think they chose this model for a reason, but unfortunately you cannot find a hands on much anywhere.  @RumoredNow has one review, and I really appreciate the pictures shared here.  Thanks.  However, with the given scenario I wonder where they will go from here...
  • Good to see Daniel has had change of heart towards Windows mobile lately.
  • Forget about all this depressing Windows Phone blah... Tell how do you like the Purple Pillow? seriously.
  • Still using it. I like it a lot and would recommend.
  • sweet, even for side sleepers? I'm thinking about the purple matress as well.
  • @Daniel Rubino... I don't get nearly as many phones as you do. LOL I did do a full write up on the Moly W5. I agree, it is a solid and pleasing piece of kit. Interested readers can check it out here: http://forums.windowscentral.com/coship-moly-w5/433404-%5Buser-reviews%5...
  • The Alcatel Idol is $400 unlocked and it's a much better phone than this. Unless you're chasing market share, what is the point of putting out cheap low-spec phones? In my opinion, if any new phone coming out can't be upgraded to full Windows 10 then it shouldn't be released.  I honestly don't know what this company is thinking. The only people who would buy this low end phone don't care that much about phones. The only people who would crowd fund a phone would be enthusiasts who want the best phone possible. If this phone was  running Snapdragon 835 and a camera that put the Lumia 950 to shame then I probably would give them some money. Given where Windows 10 on ARM is going it makes no sense to release phones that can't advance to the full OS. This whole project makes no sense.
  • It's $285 unlocked on Amazon. Sold officially by Alcatel, dumping inventory.
  • I've got a question from the opposite perspective.  Win10M by all appearances looks to be near EOL.  Dan, you note the rumors picking up.that this is the case, and the supported chipsets listed for the CU show no newer chipsets being supported for new production (hence this phone using the old SD 617 processor rather than a newer one in the SD 6XX). So if that's the case, why is Microsoft even allowing for the possible release of new Win10M hardware? Why don't they refuse to license Win10M for any new handsets including the Cerulean Moment?  Of course, that would require Microsoft to be clear about their plans.  And maybe since this phone has been in development for so long, maybe WhartonBrooks already has a license.  In that case, Microsoft is probably hoping that this kickstarter crashes and burns.
  • I often thought that MS were so terribly short sighted and US centric with their mobile approach. Rather than buy Nokia, they ought to have heavily subsidised some solid low and mid level phones. Banged them out in Southern America and India and Eastern Europe. Then brought some more high end stuff to Europe. Damn, Satya could have sold no end to India, surely. Flooding the populous, less affluent, areas of the world could have had a huge impact on the number of users. Europe had some decent user percentages, and I used to see them quite often over in UK. How they managed to lose that is almost beyond me. MS could have even made their own flagship too. I'm sure my plan would have cost less than 8billion.
  • Agreed.  Not for nothing that Ballmer's pushing through of the Nokia acquisition, against the wishes of a number of board members, including Gates, is considered by some to be the final nail in the coffin of his tenure.  
  • In 2017 a screen that size should be minimum full HD 1920x1080
  • Maybe, but at 5" you don't/won't notice. I'm using it and think it's fine, plus it's about hitting a price point. You don't get FHD for free.
  • It's accurate that WhartonBrooks slightly overpromised and under-delivered with the Cerulean Moment. Some of that falls on Windows Central as a site, too, and our editors have had some important internal discussion about that.
    Glad to hear that you're discussing this.  The astounding frequency and unabashed cheerleading for this piece of vaporware did not do your credibility any favors.  Naïveté is perhaps the best possible motive to ascribe to Jason and this series of articles.  One wonders if there aren't other, less above-board ones.   It also seemed, from the beginning, that this was going to end with a plea for money.  And so it did.  Shameful.  
  • I didn't want to say that but I agree, Jason is a great addition to WC but I wouldn't have shared his enthusiasm so much on this product.
  • Some skepticism would have been appropriate from the beginning. I understand it's a fan/enthusiast website, but those articles came off as sacharin puff pieces.
  • I've been pointing to Jason that he is overhyping Cerulean n would be bad for them but he just refuses to accept n responds by saying he is optimistic. Optimism n overhype are different. His articles seem like fan concepts.
  • WM is a great daily product. This item is well measured. Thank you for the team's hard work.
    It's been a rare WM slip-up to give too much space to this venture. The tone being uncharacteristically too cosy and unquestioning.
    No harm done though. Thanks all.
  • Ok @Jason ward fight back article in 3... This was definitely an unexpected article by Dan. Well measured and thought out though. I still want more phones!
  • ^
  • It amazes me how people have become hardware snobs with all of the advances made over the past few years in the mobile space. The Cerulean would have been a great mid range option if only it were available right now.
  • Got an iPhone 7 last week after waiting endlessly for good news on windows mobile front. Microsoft apps work beautifully on iOS. Good job Nadella!
  • Got an iPhone 7 last week after waiting endlessly for good news on windows mobile front. Microsoft apps work beautifully on iOS. Good job Nadella!
  • Here is my full and in-depth review of the Moly W5. http://forums.windowscentral.com/coship-moly-w5/433404-%5Buser-reviews%5...
  • I agree with the post above about low end devices in emerging markets. I think Microsoft is now getting the right idea with Windows on ARM. My biggest concern about Windows and Windows Mobile is that the devices that Microsoft has made to demonstrate the platforms, such as the Surface Book and the Lumia 950xl, are so high end that hardly any of the market can afford them. That leaves most OEMs nowhere to go but downmarket. This means the choice is between a device that operates the way Microsoft wants it to operate that is very expensive or a cheaper device that provides a sub-standard experience. I think it would be a much better tactic of Microsoft to produce software platforms (i.e. Windows in its various forms) that are designed to operate on the lowest possible spec hardware and still provide the experience Microsoft want users to have. They could then make low end devices that people really like and take the lion share of that end of the market and then leave OEMs/ODMs to produce higher end devices with higher profit margins. I think one of the reasons Microsoft has struggled to compete with other Mobile OSs is because they failed to understand that to be successful they would have needed to aim their product at mobile network providers, who would then sell the devices on to consumers/businesses.
    While the business market is a bit different, many businesses still go through network providers for mobile device purchases.
    The article alludes to this by mentioning T-Mobile's withdrawal from Windows 10 Mobile. My concern is that while reducing the overall hardware requirements for Windows 10 (i.e. Windows 10 Cloud and Windows on ARM), is the right direction to travel, we will end up with even higher hardware requirements for (ultra)mobile devices (i.e. phones) running Windows on Arm that the prices will be prohibitive, e.g. $1,000+.
    The reality is, of course, that it is quite possible Microsoft has already committed to a completely different course of action via long range planning and won't be producing any hardware, or even device operating systems in the long run. I agree with the poster above who suggests this. I think Microsoft may only be developing cloud-based software.
  • The one benefit I see of them funding this (besides doing fans a favor) is that it would signal Microsoft's commitment to some mobile solution running Windows without showing their hand. Is this Windows on Mobile thing happening? I have no idea? Is Microsoft just conceding the mobile device space? I don't know. But they could signal some sort of commitment to mobile by funding this. I would argue that nothing is hurting Windows mobile right now more than FUD.
  • As much as pleasing the fans is a noble goal, there simply isn't any economic reason to back this phone. Sorry for the bad news folks, but MS is a publicly traded business that needs to clarify its investments to shareholders. Who ever sanctions this investment, will be/should be fired on the spot.
    Be patient folks, am sure MS would love to get back into the mobile space, but it has to make sense; in terms of a viable product and economically
  • I have to agree with this segment in order to get developer support you have to have devices in hand to consumers.  People are all the time looking for a device reasonably priced.  You don't know how many people break a $700 phone and pick up a cheper one because they can't afford a new one.  This with the basis being in mulitple countries would help push a bit and relieve some of the old devices in the wild.  
  • Distant but fond memories.      
  • Wow, people didn't like when I said the same thing a few days ago in the forums. My point was simple, here is a company that is doing and will continue to do all the work, all MS has to do is give them a million bucks. My following point was that if MS won't even do that, then it's clear that there is no future for Win 10 mobile and none of us should be expected to support something that is already dead. As I said before, only 1 million bucks and MS still won't do it. That tells you all you need to know.
  • If MS wants to give me a $1 million I'll import a couple Chinese handsets and talk about category disruption too.
  • And you would still lose money.
  • Sad to say, but this device / startup was off putting since the beginning from the branding and buzzwords to the cryptic teasers and device descriptions alleging new innovations; a redefined device. Is this that device? Regardless, their marketing has been confusing at minimum and slightly deceiving.
  • How does it support Continuum if it doesn't have an USB Type-C port?
  • Wirelessly with a device like the actiontec screenbeam. Works well with the 4s but wired is better.
  • This phone for $290? No. $175, I'll take a look 🙂
  • Maybe if it was $75.
  • If everyone with three year old phones dusted the cobwebs off their wallets and actually updated and financially supported someone for a 'moment' this phone would be a roaring success.
  • For the same money I can buy a brand new 950, with a guaranteed warranty from Microsoft and 24 hour support. While I applaud the effort to bring the phone to market I'm not willing to buy something so risky I.e. One that may never get future updates, one that won't provide local support, one that I'll have to pay a fortune to send back if there's any warranty issues (MS is 100% free) assuming a warranty is honoured and/or he doesn't take the money and run. Nope, I'm not backing it unless it's backed by a major company.
  • If MS has no intention of proceeding with Windows Mobile, the Moment should just die in peace. Perhaps with some official MS recognition. If they're hoping to keep it alive until some future Surface mobile device, I think this idea of Dan's isn't half bad! A million can't make much of a dent in their budget, surely...!
  • I don't think there's a reality this thing would find proper success. At this point, much of the WP fan base has to be limited to a primary pair of demographics, I would think. The first is those wanting a successor to the Lumia 500 seris, those who were pleased with relatively strong budget devices from Nokia. The Moment overshoots those people in price and specs. The other big group would be those like myself, users with higher-end Windows Phones that want a successor there. If you want a successor to a 950, like I do, what's going to a SD617 and a mediocre set of support specs (camera storage, display) going to do? Even if this were at the MS-supported $175, it just doesn't give me anything I don't have already. It's dated, mid-range hardware that won't entice the high-end fans. So, the biggest mistakes are expecting too many supporters and basically sitting in the middle of the biggest fan bases. The budget fans can't afford this and the enthusiats have something better already. Then you have the actual design, which I personally scoff heavily at. I don't live on this platform in a mindset that begs for an iPhone clone. I abhor iPhone designs. I don't like metal and glass as a focal point of design--too brittle and smudge-prone, and I simply hate the glossy effect of it. I don't care for metal shells because they tend to be lighter metals, which I find unappealing on a piece of tech (always like the original SP design and the 16 GB Zune HD more than the newer SPs and the Zune HD 32, as examples). I want either a dark metal (with no glass) or the Nokia concept of colurful polycarbonate. So, what good are they doing by splitting the difference of two fan bases and trying to copy the designs many of us here are trying to avoid? That's why I won't support the Moment, on top of the deal-breaking disaster of crowdunding. Even if I could go get this at AT&T, why would I take a hardware downgrade and go to iPhone aesthetics? That's where the project goes from "I understand the desperation of crowdfunding, even if I reject it" to "do you even realize what Windows fans like?" Then again, I'm not known for being on-point with the public's aesthetic preferences, so maybe the latter part is more a "me problem," but I can't say I recall this site's commenters begging for an iPhone-looking device on Windows. We've long been fans of plastics and the ability to show individuality with design practices.
  • Great article. This needed to be said. The company are never going to crowdfund what they need and surely must have realised this before they started. They have massively over hyped the device and made themselves​ look like a bunch of amateurs and certainly not a professional company with any long term aspirations.
  • Part of me still wonders if they were given the greenlight to go ahead with this so MS could prove there is no interest in Windows phones and validate killing them off. Yes, that's how little I think of MS these days. I have zero faith in their ability and intentions and no belief in anything they say.
  • Good to see you "discussing this internally".  I hope it involved grabbing J-Words and shaking him violently for 10 minutes while shouting "STOP WRITING FLUFF PIECES!"
  • I just want the article where Jason follows Greg to the job interviews at Best Buy and Staples!   
  • savage
  • Its just the truth,  If I was a company that was looking to get cloud services etc setup,  I would not use them.  Their website alone looks like it was organized by a 5 year old.  They are supposedly a tech company,  the most basic of things....a website,  looks terrible.   Not a good kick off.
  • Couldn't agree more Dan. This is a massive flop in more ways than one. The thing that bugs me most is the misrepresentation from WB and the bad communication from MS and WB. They somehow think they don't have to communicate to their customers because of some wild dream state they are in, sort of a hallucinogenic trip they're on but nobody knows what's in their head. They need to employ people to REALLY communicate rather than spin doctors, marketing ***** an dead beats who bat off to their own ideas. This entire affair has pissed me off. At first I felt sorry for Greg of WB but after he released that smelly 🐽 poo of a phone (in relation to HIS hype) I now don't give a ****. He got into it knowing what was happening, so has to live with poor decisions. Meanwhile, MS really needs to tell people WTF is going on, very soon.
  • Agreed, it's a real shame that Microsoft aren't gonna help make this phone happen, they should. And then the phone would hopefully be cheaper too, it's a lot to expect people to pay for something that's OS and app store are really nothing compared to what you can get with a Moto G5 for example. Wharton Brooks need to really change the design on the back of the phone though - that Cerulean logo is too big and not ideal - the Moly looks classy on the back - this one doesn't. The Windows logo is also far too oversized and the text saying "Windows" isn't needed. If they were just available at a decent price point - or through carriers here in the UK, ideally - at least four or five friends/family who are currently on Windows (a lot of Lumia 735s and 830s) would pick one up in a heartbeat as they genuinely want to stay using Windows and aren't tempted away by the more comprehensive ecosystems on iOS and Android. It's such a shame, but I guess Microsoft have just given up and genuinely don't care about keeping their loyal fanbase using their current mobile OS - and aren't interested in anyone else providing us with a consumer option either. Wharton Brooks didn't help themselves here though - the delays are fine, but the hype they built around the device and the secrecy just made the reveal a real let down when in fact the device is pretty good. The cluelessness in the messaging from both companies hasn't helped and hasn't built confidence.
  • It's just so ugly though. Like I considered it until I saw it. It's like an iPhone from 7 years aho
  • imagine how much they spent on creating the business and getting prototypes for it to come up with nothing. ms didn't say a word. savages lol
  • Well who built the hype WB or Jason Ward
  • I think we all know the answer to that techiez.   I am betting 90% of the indiegogo backers are from this site.  I have not seen mention of this anywhere else on the net....
  • So WC now agrees that they played a part in overhyping this oem/devices.
    Now same goes for surface phone Jason has already projected a surface phone to be a foldable one. Of course it is his own fan vision but it does no good as it raises expectation while in reality the foldable screen devices may be atleast 2yrs away. So if MS were to launch a mobile device alongside W10 on Arm which isnt a foldable ultra PC then fans are going to ve disappointed and will be very vocal about it. May be WC editors should talk amongst themselves abt the narrative that they are going to set for the fans going forward.
  • I think everyone is free to believe what they want . WC provides editorials and they arent perfect. Maybe come off your high horse?
  • Let's all be REALLY honest here, we all knew in the back of our minds that WP/WM was screwed from the beginning. And that was purely down to one fatal mistake. Microsoft was slow. Simple as that. And it is ironic that Nokia were their hardware partner, because they too were slow at reading the shift in mobile space. Apple and Google were faster. Apple took incredible advantage of the momentum iPods gave it. And Google took advantage of their search engine, maps, etc. All the services which were wowing people at the time. I know there are die hard WP fans on here. I still like Windows Phone and there is a reason i still visit this site even though i have a One Plus. Take the market share out of the equation for a moment. If you used Android or iOS right now, their OS's are so far ahead of WM mobile....Tbh...It should be a hugely embarrassing for Microsoft at this stage. If we bring the market share in, then we talk about apps which are WAY ahead of what is available for WM10. And by this I mean even the apps which both WM10 and the other OS's have. The same apps which are on WM10 (including Microsoft ones) run better on the other OS's. I think, honestly, i know we are all fans, but Microsoft screwed us on this one, and alot of us let them because we are loyal. Time to walk away.
  • IMHO, this is a really important point.  MSFT has not executed well at all.  The state of W10M, live tiles and smoothness notwithstanding, is a disaster compared to Android and iOS.  Three total OS resets in six years will tend to do that.  
  • my live tiles on my samsung s7 edge running a launcher outperform live tiles on windows 10 mobile.
  • Yep, even W10M's supposed few strengths don't actually bear out in reality.  
  • I honestly think, when i got the HTC HAD with Wp7 on it. Were Microsoft being different for the sake of being different? Aside from hey have more live tiles on the screen, folders, transparent tiles, and an extra size. They haven't built on tiles in a meaningful way. At all. And tiles + functionality of widgets would've been ideal. But it seems MS lacks imagination. Generally i think, MS needs an overhaul on tiles across all devices. That stuff is old as it stands. Even if Microsoft polished the OS, the apps started to come, imagine if they still kept the tiles the way they are....I know many people would walk on by. And let's face it, we can't rely on Microsoft's marketing to relay the message that WM has changed for the better.
  • I wouldn't say Apple and Google being faster was a problem. It was more that Microsoft while being late to the party and not offering anything new aside from the UI still thought they could be successful with Apple pricing. Had they just accepted to not make any money on devices themselfs they could have had a winner. Once they realized the high priced devices did not sell they thought they could fix it by releasing an onslaught of cheap Windows Phones. Which were still supposed to make money, instead of just selling a high end phone at cost for 299 vs. Apple's 799. This created confusion and ultimately killed Windows Phone. Microsoft doesn't understand that against the competition they are facing the only course of action is to be at the same quality level but vastly cheaper. People won't just leave their app library behind.
  • if indeed MS decides to pay an OEM to develop WPs it should be XIAOMI, get a Mi MIX with WP
  • Couldn't agree more with you on this Daniel!
  • OK, this is probably a dumb question, but if Microsoft does abandon Windows 10 Mobile in favor of much speculated about "Windows 10 on mobile for ARM" (Presuming that it does indeed exist), is there any chance at all that any phone currently on the market will receive the new version as an ipdate, or will it likely only be available on new handsets as yet to be released?
  • there will be a final bug fix update (like 7.8) and the platform will be dead. remaining bugs won't be patched. 
  • Nope. Any devices, even the scant ones that are barely available now, including the HP x3, don't have the hardware to run Windows 10 on ARM.   A device like that is *at least* 3 years out.
  • Microsoft does not fund, Satya only want money enters his pocket.
  • Looks like somebody made a 180 degree turn and can't hide the truth anymore :)
  • I kind of like the phone. Yes not a flagship device, But I like the size and look of it. And I think Microsoft should support the project. Acer and the other companys focus are android, so they are not dedicated to Windows 10 Mobile. But we of course not know if Microsoft will continue with it, or pull out the plug on Windows 10 Mobile. I hope they will speak out about their mobile plans in the build conference.  
  • Build or Bust. RS 2 was supposed to be a shining moment for W10m but this is not the case. Well known apps are dropping like flies (reducing functionality beyond email, text, phone, browsing). So what is the point? If PC UI/UX looked great but apps (we used to call them programs) that were on other OSs weren't available or didn't work as well who would use it? MS has done a crap job of marketing and incentives for developers/OEMs, so here we are. What was once a promising platform being treated like a wed in a garden.
  • Anyone buying a phone right now, when it sounds like redstone 3 won't have any new features and essentially just be a final bug fix to the platform is a dumby (7.8 all over again). I recently bought a lumia 950 and 950xl. I hope they do finally fix some of the MANY SERIOUS bugs with the platform on this final patch. I'll never buy another windows phone based device again. after 7, 8, and now 10m they've totally broken every single concept of reasonable updating. 
  • Microsoft has absolutly no interest in supporting or advancing windows 10 mobile at this point, they have once again changed paths, current windows phones have gone into maintenance mode to fullfil whatever outstanding obligations MS have. They are currently pulling another windows phone 7.5 with the latest insider fast ring release to mobile devices. I really doubt that any device(including the x3 or 4s) will receive RS3. I have dropped MS now from my personal phone devices.
  • I thought by now that everyone knew that this was the clone/remake of the Lenovo SoftBank 503LV. Why are people still comparing it to the Moly? I know that point is moot also. I think the real story here is how much frustration is evident in Daniel's story. I am "all in" on Windows Phone, or whatever you want to call it now. I know my 950 will be upgraded for at least a little while longer. But its starting to get difficult to walk standing up straight and I can see the rats running past my feet. All we need now is a band playing while we wait.
  • Better to spend that money on a touch based xbox controller software for UWP, or funding fully scalable UWP versions of adobe illustrator, fruity loops, oracle database, call of duty etc. Spend a few million on that, and you have a platform with draw, mobile, tablet or desktop - something to actually show off windows hybrid capabilities and make the rest look like toys. 
  • Looking at w10 on arm (snapdragon 835) is promising but would die .💀
  • Honestly I repeat it seems Microsoft is pushing people off of windows 10 mobile for a complete reboot again. Honestly I see it happening with Windows on arm and windows cloud. This company should just make a heavily skinned Android and be done with mobile
  • Cerulean Moment will never make it, and franklin Microsoft wants it to fail. Windows 10 Mobile bleeds Microsoft's resources, and they clearly wants to focus all efforts on Windows 10 (Cloud?) for the Surface Messias
  • I was going to support WB because of the Ground-breaking and disruptive technologies WB was going to bring to the Mobile market. The only thing that is ground-breaking and disruptive, is the mediocre specs that they have brought to the table and it is not their original work even. Honestly, to over advertise and under deliver is a total turn off . Good luck to WB.