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Xbox One: Details emerge on licensing, online connectivity, and privacy

Xbox One

On May 21st, when Microsoft officially announced the Xbox One a lot of questions still remained. Will I be able to sell my games? Share my games? Do I need an internet connection once a day or once a month? These were questions we did not expect answered until E3, but Microsoft has decided to attack these concerns head-on and has shared their plans on all these fronts and more. That leaves E3 to be focused on games (a good call in our book). Details on the Xbox One after the break.

To connect or not to connect

Forza

The earliest (and biggest) rumor about the next Xbox has been whether or not it would require a constant internet connection to play games or use. That rumor started months before the official unveil and details remained murky after the event.

It’s not surprise that Microsoft is pushing for online connections with the next Xbox. After all, next generation games will be literally powered by both your Xbox and servers thousands of miles from your home. It’s actually a clever trick to combat the Wii U and PlayStation 4. Your Xbox One will actually get more powerful over time.

The following are examples that Microsoft has listed on their site as benefits for using the cloud:

  • Because every Xbox One owner has a broadband connection, developers can create massive, persistent worlds that evolve even when you’re not playing.
  • Xbox One is designed to run in a low-powered, connected state. This means your system, games and apps are always current and ready to play—no more waiting for updates.
  • Never miss an opportunity to play games with your friends or to catch up with family on Skype. Use Skype in Snap mode to chat while you play games or watch TV.  Or enjoy group video Skype calls with people around the world, all from the comfort of your living room.
  • After signing in and installing, you can play any of your games from any Xbox One because a digital copy of your game is stored on your console and in the cloud.  So, for example, while you are logged in at your friend’s house, you can play your games.
  • You’ll be able to buy disc-based games at traditional retailers or online through Xbox Live, on day of release.

Those sound like fairly good reasons for connecting your Xbox One to the internet. However, there are some potential cons to this approach. A persistent connection is apparently not required. However, if you want to game offline you can only do so for 24 hours or one hour from a console that isn’t your own. Offline gaming won’t be possible until you re-establish a connection (you can watch live TV or disc-based movies though). The reason? The Xbox One is designed (and required) to verify if your system, application, or games need updates or if you’ve acquired new games. Additionally checking if you’ve resold, traded in, or shared a game with a friend.

Licensing on the Xbox One

Dashboard

Needing to connect your Xbox One to the internet once in a 24 hour period to game may seem like con to a lot of people, but there are some pluses to this approach. You’ll benefit from this semi-constant connection when playing games. Here’s how licensing will work on the next generation Xbox.

Again from the Microsoft/Xbox One site:

  • You’ll be able to buy disc-based games at traditional retailers or online through Xbox Live, on day of release. Discs will continue to be a great way to install your games quickly.
  • After signing in and installing, you can play any of your games from any Xbox One because a digital copy of your game is stored on your console and in the cloud.  So, for example, while you are logged in at your friend’s house, you can play your games.
  • Your friends and family, your guests and acquaintances get unlimited access to all of your games.  Anyone can play your games on your console--regardless of whether you are logged in or their relationship to you.
  • Xbox One will enable new forms of access for families. Up to ten members of your family can log in and play from your shared games library on any Xbox One. Just like today, a family member can play your copy of Forza Motorsport at a friend’s house. Only now, they will see not just Forza, but all of your shared games.  You can always play your games, and any one of your family members can be playing from your shared library at a given time.
  • Today, some gamers choose to sell their old disc-based games back for cash and credit. We designed Xbox One so game publishers can enable you to trade in your games at participating retailers.  Microsoft does not charge a platform fee to retailers, publishers, or consumers for enabling transfer of these games.
  • Xbox One is designed so game publishers can enable you to give your disc-based games to your friends. There are no fees charged as part of these transfers. There are two requirements: you can only give them to people who have been on your friends list for at least 30 days and each game can only be given once.

Something most of us have wanted for a long time is the ability to buy and download games the same day on our Xbox 360s. Now you can with the Xbox One. Whether you get your game through the cloud or a disc you’ll be able to access it anywhere you go through your Microsoft/Xbox account.

Your physical Xbox One will allow up to ten members of your “family” to log in with their accounts and play games you’ve installed.

Now for some cons. Microsoft has implement a system that allows you to sell your disc games to participating retailers. The issue is that publishers can enable or disable this for a specific game. So in some dark dystopian (near) future companies like Activision and EA may say you can resell your copies of Madden, but not Call of Duty. It’s also worth pointing out, that this system only mentions “participating retailers” but not individuals. Does this mean you can’t give your friend Halo 5 for ten bucks? No. You can give a disc-based game to a friend, without fees, so long as they’ve been on your friends list for at least 30 days. This move should stifle direct sales between two individuals. This also dependent on game publishers.

Privacy: Is your Kinect going to listen to your 24 hours a day?  

New Kinect

Another concern that the internet had after the unveil of the Xbox One centered on privacy and the Kinect. So Microsoft has given consumers control over their privacy and date. Again, from the Xbox site here is how you can control that data:

  • By design, you will determine how responsive and personalized your Xbox One is to you and your family during setup. The system will navigate you through key privacy options, like automatic or manual sign in, privacy settings, and clear notifications about how data is used. When Xbox One is on and you’re simply having a conversation in your living room, your conversation is not being recorded or uploaded.
  • If you don’t want the Kinect sensor on while playing games or enjoying your entertainment, you can pause Kinect. To turn off your Xbox One, just say “Xbox Off.” When the system is off, it’s only listening for the single voice command -- “Xbox On,” and you can even turn that feature off too. Some apps and games may require Kinect functionality to operate, so you’ll need to turn it back on for these experiences.
  • You can play games or enjoy applications that use data, such as videos, photos, facial expressions, heart rate and more, but this data will not leave your Xbox One without your explicit permission. Here are a few examples of potential future scenarios: A fitness game could measure heart rate data to provide you with improved feedback on your workout, allow you to track your progress, or even measure calories burned. Or a card game could allow you to bluff your virtual opponent using your facial expressions.
  • While it’s faster to find what you’re looking for using your voice and gesture commands with Kinect, you can use a controller, your remote controls or your smart devices instead. And you can use all of these devices when Kinect is paused.

A lot of people feared that the Kinect would be able to listen to you when the Xbox One was off. Apparently, when off, the Xbox One is only listening for one command in its low-power state: “Xbox On”. It’s nice to know that you’re in control when the Kinect is on, off or paused. Some games though will require Kinect functionality (again, at the discretion of the game developers/publisher). That’s up to you to play or not play those games.

Holy guacamole Batman! Information overload! Hit up the source links below to read the info. Don’t forget to share your thoughts, questions, and concerns below in the comments. We’ll do our best to answer.

Source: Xbox Connection, Xbox Licensing, Xbox Privacy

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Reader comments

Xbox One: Details emerge on licensing, online connectivity, and privacy

533 Comments

Why dont people get it. NOTHING HAS CHANGED. If you use your own xbox that one gets tied to you live account. You can play all games offline as long as you want. However if you use a second xbox that one you will have to be connected to the internet to download license every 24h.
 
This is the same in the 360 now.

Nope, reread this: "However, if you want to game offline you can only do so for 24 hours or one hour from a console that isn’t your own."
It says offline play on YOUR console is enabled for up to 24 hours, but on any other console it's only available for 1 hour.
I've been without internet this week because some tool put a pnumatic drill through Virgins' main line that supplies my area on Monday, and I hadn't been home that weekend.  If i had an Xbox One i wouldn't have been able to use it until last night when Virgin replace the cable.

But your WP should have internet sharing right? Its only for authentication etc so should be light on data.

This article confirms that I won't be buying the new Xbox. I'm fine with my 360 for a few more years. Might go PS4, depending on how they handle some of these things.

Yup fully agree with you on this one.  Can't go offline for more than 24 hours are you serious..... can't sell my game on ebay..... I love wp central, and I have a pretty deep microsoft ecosystem at home ( Surface pro, Server 2012, 360, desktop, thinking of a winphone), but no amount of positive spin in the world can make these draconian measures acceptable. I'll most likely buy a PS4 or nothing at all. 
In an industry in which you only have two real dominant forces ( Sony, Microsoft [ninetendo a distant third these days]), its likely that such plans have been decided between them, I pray for the sake of the gaming industry that Sony do not follow.  They really could have a bonanza on there hands if they dont.... I hope Microsoft really get burned for this stupidity.

By your own statement, you have no internet at all regularly.  48 hours = 2 days.  2 days x 3 or 4 times a week = 7 or 8 days a week.  If you are paying for this, I would recommend you start holding your provider responsible, file complaints with the BBB, etc.
 
Honestly, it sounds like you're full of it and just whining.

I'm not full of it...it is my only option. Only cable company, and I live surrounded by nature preserves, which eliminates dish. So back off, jack hole.

In this scenario the Xbox One is definitely a fail. I can't believe they didn't consider this use case.

Right, the use case of not ever having any internet or even a smart phone with internet.
 
Certainly a niche case for someone who can afford an XB1 and games to begin with...

LOL. You're so ignorant.  Living in an area with no cell reception or unreliable internet doesn't have anything to do with being able to afford an Xbox.  Shit, I live in an upper-middle class neighborhood in the hills and my cell reception is crap.  I have to go down the hill amongst all of you cretins to be able to use my cell phone.  When I go to my summer home in the mountains the cell reception is also crap and the Internet is slow and unreliable.

No need for name calling their buddy.

Your cell reception may be crap but what about you internet? Is it down for more than 24hrs on a REGULAR basis? In an "upper-middle class neighborhood"? Really?

We all get that connectiviey in the boonies is spotty. But how many people live in the boonies? People living their have a resonable expectation of not having the same level of access as people closer to major population centers.

More entertainment is going to require internet, iTunes, Netflix, Hulu, etc. Physical media and totally offline devices are going to become more niche as internet become more pervasive and even in "hard to reach" places. You still have the option to buy offline only content and platforms (while they last at least) and XB1 will not be one of them.
 

I think that's his point though, isn't it? He's going to take that option.
 
And so will I.

In Baghdad, Iraq i get internet 24/7. okay few minute outages here and there but come on, so much bullshit here. Who doesnt have access to the net within 2 days? but i do love how you have internet for this message, sod off fanboy, don't hate for no reason.
 
Everyone is doing this anyway but as soon as they say hey you gotta be active people run around with their hands up crying like babies!

Translation:  "He/she has Charter as their provider.  His/her internet is down for periods in excess of forty-eight hours, three to four times every week.  Aw, shucks!"

Thank you very much! I was about to get insane trying to understand that comment.
I've read it more than 10 times. Tryed to translate each word separately to my own language. Tryed Bing Translator. And I still was unable to understand it.
I was starting to question if I could really say I speak English... xD

Maybe he just whines so loud his words imprint themselves right onto the WPCentral servers' hard drives...

I have Charter, never off, get consistent 40 to 50 down and 4 to 5 up. At all times. You need to contact them and find out what the issue is.

I work for Charter and I can tell you I have never heard of such an issue. Best to call me, we can fix it. Complain, complain, complain but ask for a supervisor or senior tech and they will fix it.

While I can see the requirement to be connected to be an issue for some, I don't like the Kinect requirement. I game at a computer desk and I share the monitor with the PC, there's no place for the Kinect. My other Xbox is 10 feet away from the screen, but needs 20 feet of cable to be run neatly. Since there's no extension, I only plugin when we play a Kinect game.

This new licensing model does solve a forever problem for me, however. Now my kids can play the games I buy without me having to sign in on the other console. I have no problem with these changes, for the most part they are for the better.

I would prefer the option to not use Kinect at all, or at least have some cabling options.

Your problem is so little man.. below is the future problems of Xbox users:
 
User: Xbox ON (nothing happend)
User: Xbox ON (mothing on my TV Screen)
User: Xbox WTF is wrong with you.. "Xbox ON" .... uhhuuuuuuu!!
Xbox: "I am on you a' hole" , Turn your F TV ON.... press the remote button.
User: .. oh sorry Xbox..

i think the need to connect every 24hr will be removed after a year or two, i've had issues connecting to Xbox live several times for the past two years, eventually "i think" they are just going to give in

Have you ever thought it might be your provider?  I have yet to have any issues logging into Xbox Live that wasn't a mass outage (which nothing has been reported over the past few weeks.)  And you do know about the Xbox Live Service Status Dashboard, right?  If not, go here:  http://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-live-status
 
This whole "Wah, wah, xbox connection required" is mostly crap.  I certainly feel for those in a horrible location where broadband services are lacking. 

I would love to agree with you but unfortunately can't.
I live in Porto (the biggest city in Portugal after the capital) where internet is great: up to 360 Mb/sec and I don't remember it to fail even once since I came here last year so XBox Connection wouldn't represent a problem at all.
By the other hand, my parents live in a small village (about 500 inhabitants) in the center of Portugal. They do have internet connection (like almost everyone in Portugal) but the village is small so they can't get over 2 Mb/sec. The biggest problem is the internet is provided by cable which is made of copper and goes throw some unpopulated areas in the woods. That means large portions of cable are stolen about once every two/three months. Again, the village is small, so getting the cables back and reestablish the connection isn't exactly an emergency for the internet provider, resulting in one or two weeks without phone (except mobile phones), television (except satellite) and internet (except mobile internet that is slow, expensive and all the plans have limited data).
A lot of people live in big cities and has a god, fast and stable internet connection but there are also lots of people incapable of get it. Saying "XBox One Live Connection sucks because I can't afford to have a good internet connection" is very stupid. If someone can't afford it, shouldn't even think about spending 600€ in a XBox. But some people can't really have a reliable internet connection despite how much they pay and those people are the ones who can complain.
I love my Lumia and my Windows PC so I'll probably buy a XBox One anyway but it's hard to recommend it to someone in that conditions.

exactly what i mean, it's not that MS's service going down, it's when our end of the provider fails we take the hit and we can't blame our provider either, at least in the sense that  they are not responsible for our Xbox (im still getting it btw :) )

Well, in my opinion, it is your provider's responsibility to provide you with the service you are paying for. So when it goes out, they are completely at fault / responsible for fixing it or refunding you.

My internet is better than ever but connecting to X Box live gets more difficult by the month.

The only way that will be true is if the system dies so completely that nobody even remembers it. Otherwise it will dog the console for the rest of its lifespan.

No. It won't. This is the future, we are slowly moving to a digital download only type of environment where you will need to be online to get your games anyway so all the crying about preowned this and that needs to stop. Can you sell your steam games preowned? No. Who cares if you can't sell your game in eBay. Quit trying to rip off publishers. The only part of Xbox one that I actually agree is an issue is the 24h connection check which I'm sure MS will eventually pull a backflip on.

"Quit trying to rip off publishers" ...?!

If you buy a game, you pay the publisher for the game, in a sense, because they get a portion of all sales. When you buy anything, that object, whether it be game, food or other, becomes your property to do with as you please.

You can sell your personal property, or should be able to at least. No different with games you have legally purchased. Don't confuse game resale with piracy.

That's not how that works with media like software, music, movies, TV, etc. You may buy the physical disc, but you never (unless expressly granted in the license) own the content on the disk. So yes, it's your choice to resell the physical disc and packaging, but the owner of the digital content, the publisher, has the choice of whether to allow anyone to access said content after resale without additional fees.

exactly. people are complaining about nothing really... who cares if you can't play a video game offline after 48 hours of no connectivity. who even does this in the first place?
i think this looks like a sweet system to replace my ps3 (though all i play is fifa... online of course)

I'm thinking the publishers are making it more difficult not MS. Publishers are struggling and want to eliminate pirating. MS Probably would like to eliminate the heartbeat thing, but the publishers are probably not budging. I'd be surprised if the PS4 doesn't do something similar.

^This

Why do people try to pretend that the publishers aren't sick of not getting of that used game money and having their games stolen by pirates?

So it MS holding back the publishers from releasing free, DRM free bits to the masses? Give it a rest people!

The overwhelming majority of the games that will be released on XB1 and PS4 are going to come from these publishers which means MS/Sony have to make concessions whether we like it or not.

I've thought a bit more about this, and this 24 hr thing is short sighted. There's tons of military folk and others that take their console with them, where there is no internet. There just needs to be some reasonable restrictions when offline for an extended period.

The 24 hour period to verify games and ownership baffles me. This seems like it could be fixed by requiring an internet connection when you trade games. If you're not online to invalidate your local copy, you cannot trade or sell.

From what I understand (and I could be wrong) , they will require an internet connection to do the sell, which is how it's registered to the new person, and the reason for the online check on the hardware is to wipe the game from the system memory and not just the cloud. In theory, you could have a lot of games, plan to never be online and sell them while keeping them all for offline use. I understand the need, but I agree that the 24 hour period was not well thought out. I would make it that in order to sell the game you have to do it from the original system that it was installed in and require an internet connection at that time, which would force the wipe of the internal memory of the system. My 2 cents MSFT

SO is it the 24 hour time frame that has people upset - or is everyone trying to scam the system?  Would once every 72 periods be okay - once a week?

This makes 1000x more sense at a glance, but imagine for a minute how *very* screwed (and pissed off) you would be if your console breaks. Your games would be lost forever.

Agreed. If everything is stored on a cloud and your entire library is available when you log into another Xbox One then it would be easy to repair/purchase a new console and designate it as your new one. 
I had to do this with a PS3 that gave up the ghost then got repaired.

The online verification is needed to help combat the game console modders out there.  Do you not remember Halo 4, CoD Black Ops and Madden 2012 all released on bittorrent days before the official release?

I have exactly ZERO problem with online verification to play online.
Play a hacked copy of Halo4 all you want offline.

And that's where game developers are going to seriously disagree with you, and Microsoft appears to agree.  Sony would be nuts not to follow in the same footsteps.

Alright. How about won't work until you go online, it gets DRMd and locked to console. To sell/transfer, you have to be online.

And that is what this article is referring to.  You must be online for the DRM to reset it's watchdog timer, and to be able to sell/transfer a game to a friend.

Yeah surly they could of made it once a week.. What's the harm in the user being able to access that game for the week then its removed? No issues for me personally, I'm connected every time my 360 is on.

Imnot getting one.. Fuck ms and their ads.. I got netflix and spotify because they are add free

So that little adtile in your home screen bothers you? Then don't stare at the home screen, go play a game or go on Netflix. What's the problem!?

It's all become about the used games situation. All sides should just ink a deal with GameStop that allows them a cut from used sales instead of gouging the consumer. But I have to agree with a few that the internet connection situation will fizzle out a bit fast. Broadband is still pricey for most homes at $50. And then there are providers who gouge their customers with data caps. No fucking wonder we're #30 in terms of broadband around the world...

So they assume that Xbox one owners have internet? How ? I know a few of my buddys that don't have internet but still want the Xbox one how will this work for them or is the Xbox one aming
towards online hammers only?

I think the assume it because they require it. Its like when you see an * on a game and down below it says (requires internet connection). It will probably say that Xbox one requires broadband connection

You have the software pirates to thank for it.  Then again it's also the publisher's fault for over charging.  They could have potentially sold the game at $29.99 through larger volume instead of $60.00.

Definitely the rising costs of development and over pricing. The late Kenji Eno had it right: some games, while very good, don't have the ability to sell well...

If no one bought the games at $60... do you think they would still charge $60?

You can always wait until the prices come down in price.  You can buy Assassin's Creed III now for around $30.  Tomb Raider came out three months ago and you can get it for about $35 now.  Bioshock Infinite came out only two months ago and it's now $40.

If you want the games as soon as they are released... well, you have to pay extra for that.  Same with phones or computers or televisions or movies or clothes.  Money buys the things you want sooner.

BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT!!!  Piracy on the 360 has been virtually nil because Microsoft can detect tampered systems and ban the entire machine off of XBL.  This doesn't stop people from hacking and playing offline images of games, but how many games do you know that are actually fun single player offline games?  I can count them on my fingers.  And you have to be really REALLY motivated to pirate.  This isn't like casual mp3 piracy.  Your argument is complete and utter horse shit. 
This is all about mongers like EA and Activision.  They can't protect their over inflated profits because the used market competes with them so now they are going to kill the ability to resell games so they can keep the price of new unsed copies inflated forever.  This is outright anticompetitive and anti-consumer behavior and before it is all over with you will see the government getting in on this and investigating. 

What happens when someone comes out with another stinker like Aliens Colonial Marines and you shell $60 fucking bucks on it? Well tough shit they can restrict resell and simply run with your money and you never recoup the value. But it gets better! What if they come out with Aliens Colonial Marines 2, and you don't want to buy it, but want to rent it first cause you got juked the first time....TOO BAD you can't! Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me!

Microsoft is fucking up!

Ya, this system by Microsoft and the publishers seems to kill Gamefly's business model, which sucks because I've been using Gamefly for two years now. I hope Gamefly has a contingency plan!

Did you read the article, you can still sell your disk....there is a feature that might allow publishers to block it - but then that is on the publisher at that point, simply don'y buy their games.
 
Also - I will be very suprised if the sony system is not similar.

Exactly thats fricking ridiculous. Seriously Xbone is dead to me... im so frustrated, I though it would be the final piece in the puzzle.  How could they get it so wrong!  Its one thing not uderstanding what the consumer wants to a certain extent, but with the outcry that has occured over this, I can't believe they would get this so wrong... I'm shocked, i really didn't think Microsoft could be so insensitive to the feelings of theyre consumers.... They will be punished for this I can feel it, it was only the other day when the playstation 2 dominated, but the high price as well as coming to market late with the ps4 allowed the xbox 360 to establish significant momentum, and erode the near complete dominance of Sony.  That was in 1 generation. Things change quickly in gaming.
The only thing I'm excited about with regards to gaming right now.... Oculus Rift...

Well, you can sell to a "friend" if they are on your friend's list on xbox live for more than 30 days....
 
Still BS...nothing has changed from the rumors

And it is because of modders who play offline why the X1 will require access to the internet every 24 hours, to disable people like that. 

If you don't like their policies then don't buy it, there will be others that will. 

Wrong, Microsoft can only detect certain modified consoles. There are thousands of consoles online modified and not banned who will never be banned. ;)

Been gaming since original Xbox and one thing I learnt early on was trawl the internet for game reviews.i was interested in colonial marines the internet saved me 40.00 quid.never rented games.personally I don't see what all the fuss is about. I'm in :-D

100% agree with in eller. I haven't hacked my 360 because i am happy buying a game (when the price comes down) and playing a bit of multi player and a bit of campaign (offline!!). This new online check stuff would give me a very good reason to hack it!!!

I do lend games to my "friends" once-in-a-while, so no problems here. My 360 is always "connected" via WiFi currently, so no problem.

I'm still gonna buy my games from my local retailer though.

I'm already looking to see which games to buy day one.

I'm glad this clarification regarding privacy and Kinect was issued. Though, sure, I'm still a bit suspicious on how exactly do they assure that the Kinect can only listen to the "Xbox on" command. I would very much like them to specify that, regardless of how technic the explanation can be.

And I still find pretty stupid that system regarding games. If I buy a game, it's my property. If I want to then sell it on eBay I should be able to do so as I have every right to do it. These limitations based on greed and desire of sucking money out of people don't work well with me. And I bet they won't work well with many others.
Still, let us see what Sony will do with PS4 regarding this exact same subject...and if they will capitalize on Microsoft's terrible move here or just play along with it.

My thoughts exactly. All I buy is used games. And that stupid Kinect. Eh. Plus always online connection is crap. At least now I can enjoy the outside more.

Actually you buy the right to Play the media in the disc. The media is never yours, so they can do this kind of things

Uhhh no when you buy the disc it is your property. Your logic means that I only bought the right to sit on my couch. Or only bought the right to use my phone, or only bought the right to watch my bluray. Based on what you say nothing we buy is our own and we have no right to use or resale any way we see fit.

No, he is right, and you can thank Apple and Sony for that. Just because you have physical property does not mean you own the content on that property. This is why Apple can disallow jailbreaking and Sony can remove the linux OS ability, among other things.

I'm not familiar with Sony but apple is same as my couch analogy. I can jailbreak anything I want but I lose all quality assurances from apple like the warranty. Just like I can modify my lazy boy but if it breaks they want fix it.

According to Apples EULA/TOS you own the device itself, but the content on the device is only  licensed to you.
 
Your analogy is at false. One is an electronic device, the other is a peice of furnature. There are no similarites between the products to substantiate an accurate analogy. An analogy is noting shared properties of two things, on the basis that there are further share other properties.

Yes the similarities is product ownership. The uela states I have no right to sale there os however I can buy sale and resell as many iPhones as I want without owing apple a dime outside the original purchase. Because when I purchase the product it became mine. Same with the game and the furniture.

The fact that you own them does not imply they are similar. I own a banana, and I own a car and they are no similiarities between the two. Either way, selling your used game is up to the publisher, MS already said that Microsoft Studios will allow it. Sony also announced similar policies, that they will be up to the publisher to enable them.

You are trying to sound clever but you are completely wrong in regards to analogies. You just end up sounding ridiculous. The two subjects of the analogy don't need to be the same, doofus. We just need to infer some similarities in a certain respect. His analogy between an iPhone and couch are perfectly valid as he had identified similarities; each product can be purchased, owned, and used. Therefore a valid analogy can of course be made. If you are going to try and be a smartass at least do it right.

Sorry but no, you cannot make a valid analogy through things that are used in two different ways.  There needs to be relevance in the similarities to make a valid analogy in an argument. A couch doesn't contain digital media, it is a peice of furniture. You do not agree to TOS or EULA by purchasing and using a couch. Just because you own them, or use them are not relevant similarities for analogy. 

Perhaps you should read what John Stuart Mill had to say about this, and the fallacy of false analogy.

It is a valid argument as with everything that is made has a patent that cannot be pirated. So when I purchase the game I purchase the right to use all the media content in that game as its my license through the purchase. That however doesn't give me the right to pirate the software, but it does give me the right to sell my license that I purchase to someone else without any interference from the manufacturer. Thus the exact same principle applies to the couch when I purchase the couch which has patented technology I cannot pirate that and make my own and sell it. However through the purchase I bought the rights to that specific couch thus allowing my to resell to anyone without manufacturers consent.

You're comparing apples and oranges. A couch has nothing to do with a video game.  There are not sufficient similarities between those two products to provide a strong argument from analogy,  and it is weakened because the similiarties you are choosing are not relevant.

Also, it isn't the patent that doesnt allow pirating, its the copyright that doesn't. A patent is just a set of rights given to an inventor for a limited period of time so that no one else can reproduce his/her product. So your couch has a patent, you cannot reproduce the couch and try to sell it for profit. Patents have nothing to do with reselling the existing product.

Now your just arguing to argue. I apologize for the misuse of the term patent. That however doesn't change the validity of the argument. I purchase the right to the license therefore I can resell without interference from the company. Same with the couch I purchase the couch through and through same as the game I can use and sell both as I see fit as I purchase the ownership of the content. I did not purchase the right to make either one and sell my own but I own the one I purchased period.

My argument is that your's has no validity. Your analogy was irrelevent for the products, and as others have also pointed out the EULA of the game states that you own the disc, you license the software. They have every legal right to prevent you from selling it to a retailer if they so wish. Doesn't make it a good thing, but it is their right, and by purchasing/using the product you have agreed to that, whether  you read the EULA or not.  

If you want to make a strong analogy, use another product of digital media; using a couch is not relevant, they are completely different and it does not help to prove your point. 

The only thing you own is the disc. The content on the disc is owned by the copyright holder and you have a licence to use it.

Well hey I can't say I completely disagree with people who don't like the used game setup. I'll still buy a One but I think the best thing someone who doesn't like the DRM setup can do is vote with your dollar. And if the PS4 had a better drm system then support that one instead. MS will take notice if enough people do this instead of just accepting it.

Actually, the End User License Agreement you agree to when opening the package says otherwise that you DO NOT OWN the game, just the right to play it. The same goes for software. You have the right to install it and use it, but you cannot resell it legally.

No not true at all. You can't take that property duplicate it and sale more than the original copy. Piracy laws are in place so that your not stealing the software again I.e you make multiple copies and give/sell them.

Looks like someone doesn't understand what EULA's are for.  You have the RIGHT to make a BACKUP copy for yourself.  This is what the US Law of the land provides.  YOU do NOT have the right to then turn around and sell that copy you just made, no matter how many times you make a "backup copy."

Wow did you even read what I wrote. You just said exactly what I said to begin with the original copy is yours no ifs and or buts about it. You cannot duplicate it and sell for profit. Next time read/listen before you type/talk. Another thing fix your keyboard cap lock keeps turning itself on.

Piracy laws are in place so that your not stealing the software again I.e you make multiple copies and give/sell them. 

 
Please read the quote from you verbatim.  How is that saying exactly the same as what I said?  You comment says that there are piracy laws to protect you from making a copy and then giving them away or sell them.  There are no such laws that protect you from giving or selling legitimate backup copies of software.
 
And my caps lock is NOT broken.  I use it for emphasis, just like BOLD font style is used.

How in the hell did you get that I said that from any of my comments? Especially when I specifically said you cannot copy and sell those copies. For crying out loud think before you speak! Second you don't need to do that for emphasis.

Look, I know you are now agreeing, but what you are saying now isn't what you wrote above.  You said:

"You can't take that property duplicate it and sale more than the original copy"

 
You are saying that I can make a backup and sell it no more than one time.  That is not true.  You cannot sell software again once you have purchased it, as EULA's state that in almost every single piece of commerical software.
And then the last part of your comment:

"you make multiple copies and give/sell them."

You are implying that you can make multiple copies and give or sell them, which is just re-wording of what you said prior.
 
Again, not disagreeing with you now, but simply pointing out what you said prior that started this chain of comments.  I'm going to leave it at that.
 

What part of can't take that property and duplicate it can you not understand?
Piacy laws are in place so that your not stealing the software again I.e you make multiple copies and give/sell them

there's the whole quote so your not pulling part out making it something it wasn't. Like it says the laws are in place so you don't make multiple copies and sell them. Damn how many times must I repeat myself before you stop misquoting me!

Wow Sam one of the saddest news I've heard sucks its about the Xbox one this could be the end if Xbox or are there some out there that agree 100% on this Xbox one connection debacle

Unfortunately its not the end not enough people will have enough patience not to buy, until companies see we want put up with this stuff. Not to mention those that aren't affected by this and will buy because its "not there problem"

Yes I am if we stand by and allow this to happen then we open the door for ever industry to claim that they deserve second hand profit as well. Before someone else comes along and says something about ps4 if they follow suite don't buy that either.

You do know who Microsoft is right? and how much capital they have? They can fund loses on the Xbox One for many many years until it becomes popular/profitable. Just like they did with the 360, and what they are doing with Windows Phone.

I wouldn't be surprised when Sony announces an "always on" requirement for the PS4 as well.  Think about it from a publishers perspective.  Where would you release the game?  Where you get control, or lose control?

The have said straight up that if you want to go offline completely and plaay then you're free to do that. With that said, I'm still expecting some kind of system to block used games.

Nope. Mandatory 24 hour check-in ONLINE to make sure your game is legit. So regardless if you are playing solo, the system will require you to go online for verification purposes.

That article didn't provide bullet-proof confirmation that Sony isn't going to have similar restrictions to the XBox One.
 
"Oh yeah you can go offline totally" could just mean yeah, you don't have to be online ALL the time... but PS4 may still have a periodic checkin requirement similar to the XBox One 24 hour offline limit.
 
And the second quote addressing used games was total PR-Speak for "We don't want to share details now, but trust us". 
 
Personally, I think the XBox One has an interesting mix of positives with the possible negatives.  Having a 10-person family plan is pretty sweet when you combine it with the roaming capabilities of what is effectively a digital game locker in the cloud... Isn't this pretty much what Steam is?

" Having a 10-person family plan is pretty sweet when you combine it with the roaming capabilities of what is effectively a digital game locker in the cloud"
 
I am so friggin excited about this! I go over a friends house almost every weekend to game, it is going to be great to just sign in and have all of my games there. The "negatives" of the xbox one are pretty much non-events for me. My internet is up 99.9% of the time, I love the ability to walk in and say "Xbox on", and I haven't traded in/sold a game since I owned a SNES. Also, for people complaining about the kinect, MS has specifically said that one of the reasons they require it, is so that developers can count on it being there. That may be BS, but if it results in good games, then I'm all in.

Yes, but I bet you a copy of CoD2 that publishers will build in the cost of offline play into the price. $58 on XB1, $69 on ps4. Sorry but I'm into saving money. And I've only ever played my Xbox once without an internet connection in six years.

Just because their reveal was centered on games does not mean it is a games first console. Sony is doing as much in regards to Media functionality as MS is. And some of these policies are coming about by pressures by publishers, if you think Sony is invulnerable to those pressures then you are delusional. Sony may hold out for a while but eventually they will do what the publishers want. The publishers have the power essentially.

I don't have a problem with any of these items but my feeling is this round of the console battle is going to be won by Sony. Those restrictions on lending, potential of that being blocked completely by game companies, online every 24 hours, this is enough to give Sony the edge. I think they've blown it this gen with the hardcore gamer.

I have the bad feeling that Sony did something very similar with DRM.  The difference is we know nothing about PS4 DRM changes yet, and now we start seeing how it is with the xbox one side of the story.

I always have my console connected to the internet. That isn't a problem for me. I typically by my games brand new for the most part. Looking forward to day 1 digital downloads. Also I want to know more about the sharing of games with up to 10 family members on any Xbox one. For example can you all play a copy of one game and play with everyone online? Sounds too good of a deal to be true.

I'd look forward to day 1 digital downloads if they're cheaper than their physical counterparts. Also, I'm a bit nervous about buying any digital games off XBL anymore seeing as how the 360's arcade games aren't gonna be backwards compatible (correct me if I'm wrong). I didn't expect regular games to be B/C but I did expect my XBLA games to be redownloadable and playable on the One, just as an app I bought on, say, an iPhone 4 is ready to go when you upgrade to iPhone 5.

The reason why the arcade games do not work is part of the reason why other games are not going to work. The processor for the xbox one is a different architecture than the xbox 360. The games are not compatible. Your example from the iphone 4 to iphone5 the processors architecture are the same that's why they work.

I imagine that they'll have checks on this just as they do for when you want to sell a game (i.e. You can only transfer the rights (sell/give away the game) to someone if they've been on your friends list for 30 days).
 
Maybe not though. If anything, it could be like the old Xbox Gold Family Plan... you have to add someone to the family by having their gamertag on your system to add, then you have the freedom to use the gamertags anywhere else after being added.

Yeah. That's what consoles were founded on. I enjoyed the implementation the 360 added mid lifecycle, where you can install for better performance and no spinning of disc, but you can play immediately without install! That gave the 360 even more value to me over the PS3. Now, PS4 and Xbox One are on equal grounds since they both require installs :(
 
To be fair, both consoles will allow you to play while the game is installing, but I know there will be restrictions (i.e. Maybe you can only play multiplayer - which most people will be fine with - since they need to install the single player campaign...). Ah well. Kinda sucks, but we'll get used to it, and tell stories to our grandkids one day about how we could play games in consoles immediately just by inserting the disc.
 
"Oh grandpa/great grandpa" they'll say, "What about VR glasses and gloves? My history teacher told me discs were flawed anyway. You're so old"

I don't know if you missed it but it still works that way...the whole installation thing does not happen first, but "during" meaning its near "instantaneous" and you can play right away without the game play suffering at all. ;)

Whatever happened to putting the CD in and playing the music?
Whatever happened to putting the floppies in and installing the software?
Whatever happened to putting the tape in and watching the movie?
Only the video game industry is so far behind the curve on digital distribution.  It's bad news for GameStop and GameFly, but nobody shed a tear when Blockbuster died.  The holy grail would be Microsoft's running their own video game streaming service and making everything ever released available with a monthly fee.

I can't agree more, its the way technology goes and Microsoft is making the painful step to be first in the Gaming industry. I have a strong feeling that Microsoft is trying to create something similar to Steam on PC. If this is true then when Sony follows suit in a few years then Microsoft will reap the benefits of an already  established effective working system. This is why companies like Apple are so entrenched in Tablets and Music Players, because they made the first tough steps to the way the industry was heading to.

So is every Xbox 360 sold to date has/had Xbox live? Because this just sounds like MS is blatantly telling people like say in some parts of Europe to not get a X1 because you dont have the internet or am I missing something?

Please fill me in? Thats why I ask because from my understanding it doesn't sound like you can just buy an X1 and play locally if you have no internet connection.

EVeryone do release sony just announced the same drm as xbox one so either was ps4 and xbox one are the same outside of games

It was linked in kotaku to a playstation website confirming sony stated all drm is up to the publishers we will bring exact details  in the near future but they are very much saying in the article that publisher can block used games or do what they want we will implement the used game feature *unless they mean adding online passes to ever game but that wasn't the tone most are taking from the article*
 
good news with this though is if you have more then one xbox 1 you can basically share one game for say 2 brothers which would save a bit of money on the end

I'm a little confused on what you said, Do you have a link?

It seems like from what you said that Sony will have the same, or similar, policies in place regarding used games, and trading/reselling games, that Microsoft has.

Also, Microsoft said that up to 10 users can access the online digital library, that is a huge step up if Sony doesn't have something similar.

I guess when you come back from your holiday you can update instantly once you get it online straight away. What I want to know is are they really shrugging off people that wants to play games one X1 but have no internet connection? Can they just not play a simple single player game or local multiplayer game?

Actually, no it does not. I've had my steam profile signed out for over a week, rebooted into two different OS's, played Steam games on both and haven't had a single issue. They work perfectly well without having an idiotic 24 hour lock on them. Have you even used Steam, or do you just say the first thing that pops in your head and think it is reality?

It may not be 24-hours, but Steam does require you login to your account once every 2 weeks or offline mode stops working, you also must be online and launch the game once on your PC before you can play it offline.
Less restrictive than the XBO, but it still does have a time limit.

No it doesn't. I've gone far longer than two weeks not conencting online with Steam and it's never once stopped me from playing any of my games. When you download a game, you're already online. Two clicks and you can play for much longer than two weeks without ever connecting to Steam again. There is no hard limit.

What happens if you want to take your console with you that's the thing, i wouldn't do that now im angaged but i used to several times a year when i was a kid, take the PlayStations to France or to the caravan site in wales for two weeks. Or even play in the car on the journey. None of this can be done now. Ok doesn't effect me now but it will effectt a lot of kids. I dont think I'll get an X1.

I smell a lawsuit. What you choose to do with a game after you purchase it. ( at a retail store ) is your business. Who says you can't sell or give it away as you see fit. Look at the music movie industries. You buy a CD or DVD you can share or sell them it is your right.

How can there be a lawsuit if the rules are in place before it's even released?

If you don't like it... don't buy it.

They are going to change the Eula. You are not buying the game, you will by a license to play the game. It is the same route digital music went.

Right but, if your buying a physical disk, even with Music, it is different. With a music CD your allowed to give it away or sell it as long as you dont keep a copy of it. AKA Selling a used game to someone you dont know or buying one.
 
Right, you buy the disk, you own the disk, just not the content on the disk. It's aways been this way but, with other media, you have had a right what to do what you want with your media as you choise. Microsoft is stopping your rights here.
 
It will end up in court, I would bet on it.

It'll be sad to see game trading go away. I mean to say, me and some online friends would trade games and play them, then pass them on again to another in the group who hadn't played it. Also, limiting direct person-to-person sales seems a bit stupid. I can see trying to limit the scope of what gamestop/redbox can do, but not good ol' regular used game selling and trading from one gamer to another.

If you regularly do it, add your whole group to your friends list (which will have space for 1000 people). After 30 days, you'll all be able to trade games for no fee. Right there in the article :)
 
Well, I guess unless publishers go all draconian one day and lock that down :/ The game industry really is changing... publishers have gotten fed up with not profiting as much as they could. Still, I don't imagine that will take place in the beginning of this console's lifecycle.

Give your games to friends: Xbox One is designed so game publishers can enable you to give your disc-based games to your friends. There are no fees charged as part of these transfers. There are two requirements: you can only give them to people who have been on your friends list for at least 30 days and each game can only be given once.
 
Source: http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license

Three hours before you posted this, and about a couple inches below my post you're replying to, I wrote a followup reply acknowledging what you just posted. I found what is there in that source that wasn't mentioned in this article, as well as the possibility of it still being fine for groups of online friends that share games due to the "up to 10 members of your family" thing - depending on how it works. Scroll down a bit if you want to read it.

As a followup to my first reply, and not mentioned in the above article (I checked the source), each game can only be traded/transferred once to your friends. So it wouldn't work more than once to "give" away your games...
But, and we don't all know exactly how it will work, but what about how you can share all your games with up to 10 members of your family? It could work like the old Xbox Gold Family subscription, where you could only add a family member from the console of the "leader", but then you were free to take the gamertag for that family member anywhere you wanted. They already have specified that family members could access your game library from any console. You probably couldn't play the same game at the same time, but that isn't your issue now anyway :)

Will be interesting to see how the policies are futher developed. I think that there will be one main account with up to 10 users able to be underneath it. They would all have access to the digital library. I don't mind not being able to play the same game at the same time, that is understandable.. you can't do that now. 

It seems that Microsoft is trying to transition to a Steam like service for consoles, which I think is where the industry will head eventually anyways.

I'll stick with my ps3 and 360 and just buy a ps4. Its my game and I should be allowed to do as I please. Also no using gamefly with Xbox one! And we don't have broadband in the area I live in and I am stuck with a 10gb a month plan on a hotspot!

Its not your game lol. Its not like buying your tv or a computer. You are essentially more or less buying a license to have the right to play the game.

Fact of the matter is we dint all have no metered broadband and not all of us can afford to buy multiple games each month. Not to mention if you end up not liking the game you are stuck with it.

I think this will hurt innovation because people will not be as willing to buy a game and give it a shot unless its something they know for a fact they will like.

Wrong! Once I purchase it, its mine. Same as my cds DVDs and blurays. Now I cannot mass produce any of those products and sell/give them away. But I have all the right to play or sell that game as much as I want and so does the next person that buys it from me.

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