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Apple's new iPhones suggest the time is right for 'Surface Andromeda'

I've long asserted that slate-shaped smartphones are not phones, but powerful mini tablet PCs that have telephony as just one of their many functions. What we call "smartphones" are consistently used as touch-centric tablet computers and are today's most frequently used "PCs".

Apple's 2007 iPhone started this phenomenon and introduced mere iterative advances until, arguably, 2017's bezel-less, home button-less iPhone X redesign. This iPhone boasted more advanced silicon, A.I., machine learning (ML) and more, and it introduced "the future of the smartphone." (Apple's wording.) Though heaped in marketing bluster, this 10-year milestone device may represent a transition point between what we categorically accept (or what history will define) as "smartphones" and the beginning of something else.

Admittedly, 2018's iPhone X S is an iterative step for iPhone X. But iPhone's "slow and steady" progression from a 3.5-inch phone-internet device-iPod in 2007, to a 6.5-inch "mini-tablet" with PC-like processing power, impressive storage and RAM and advanced A.I., suggest Apple is evolving iPhone into the pocket PC Microsoft failed to launch. If the market embraces the powerful and expensive iPhone's X S and X S Max, perhaps Microsoft should think very hard on how to bring "Surface Andromeda" (though not yet officially confirmed) to market sooner than later.

Smartphones are dead

10 years and shift

Every 10 years, computing paradigms shift. The 80s: IBM and computer hardware. The 90s: Microsoft's software and productivity. The 00s: Google and search. The 10s: Apple with mobile and apps. Eleven years after the iPhone-induced mobile revolution, we're at the beginning the next shift.

According to analysts like Microsoft Technology Evangelist James Whittaker (above video) IoT powered by the intelligent edge on 5G networks is next. If true, billions of devices will eventually comprise a ubiquitous computing environment that will perceive and interact with us via A.I.-powered cognitive services. At the beginning of this ambient computing shift, mobile devices with more advanced A.I., more powerful processors and greater capacity to "perceive" environments and discern user intent via ML may segue between "smartphones" and whatever personal device we may carry or wear. Apple's iPhone X S with Bionic 12 processor may be that device. Or Surface Andromeda could be if Microsoft plays its cards right.

The iPhone X S's eight-core Neural Engine is capable of five trillion calculations per second, making Apple's Core ML nine times faster than iPhone X's. This enables real-time ML tasks like pattern recognition, behavior prediction, advanced facial recognition for biometric security (Face ID) and playful AR Memojis, environment mapping (AR) and a range of A.I.-supported imaging tech. Many Android phones rival this tech but iPhone's tailored synergy of hardware and software coupled with a refined implementation of "old" and new features deliver an impactful future-focused package.

Convergence

The original iPhone introduced a shift by creating synergy between emerging and important tech of its day: the mobile web, cellular connectivity, multi-touch displays, and MP3 players and app models. Apple's 2017 iPhone X stressed a synergy of today's emerging tech: advanced A.I., ML, AR, high-speed broadband and advanced security. The iPhone X S iterates on that.

Apple's problem is that these advances are constrained by a slate form-factor that has not changed since 2007 and a mobile OS that is limited in its ability to accommodate certain computing scenarios that Windows handles with ease. Additionally, from A.I. to ML, AR and biometric security, all of the iPhone X S's defining tech is within Microsoft's ability to implement in Surface Andromeda.

Coupled with the $999 to $1,499 price range for the least expensive iPhone X S to the most expensive iPhone X S Max, users may not be getting as much bang for their buck a similarly priced Surface Andromeda could potentially offer.

Folding phones: The beginning of the end of slate-shaped phones

Time for a change

Technology's evolution is influenced by the tech and how it's used. Since iPhone's 2007 introduction, web-surfing, messaging, gaming, music and now photography, have dominated how these slates are used. Despite how fast, big or expensive they've become, usage patterns have remained virtually unchanged in 11 years. The unchanging form factor, and limited mobile OS, despite convergence of modern tech, doesn't promote new usage scenarios.

As a modern edge device, Surface Andromeda may, like iPhone, create a synergy between emerging tech but deploy it through a context-conforming form factor that encourages diverse use cases. It could potentially by unfolded as a tablet (with limited apps and tablet mode) and digital journal, folded as a phone and docked via Continuum as a PC. Additionally, Windows Mixed Reality and Paint 3D, combined with a mobile 3D scanning app Microsoft introduced in 2016 but has been MIA since, may (according to sources) add unique functionality to Surface Andromeda.

Sometimes, like with the first iPhone, people don't know what they want until they're told. People seem content jumping between phones, tablets to PCs for different tasks. If Microsoft figures out a way to position, push and leverage the unique context-conforming features of rumored Surface Andromeda and Windows Core OS, and the synergy of A.I., machine learning, and mixed reality, it may convince people that one device for all scenarios is what they want.

Let's be honest, no one really needs a $1000 smartphone

Jason L Ward is a columnist at Windows Central. He provides unique big picture analysis of the complex world of Microsoft. Jason takes the small clues and gives you an insightful big picture perspective through storytelling that you won't find *anywhere* else. Seriously, this dude thinks outside the box. Follow him on Twitter at @JLTechWord. He's doing the "write" thing!

186 Comments
  • The main thing I'm noticing with the talk surrounding the latest iPhones is that people seem to be done with the minor updates. A lot of people I talk to, YouTube videos I see, and social media posts I read say that the new iPhones are nice, but where's the new must-have feature? By and large, there isn't one and there hasn't been one for some time with Apple. It's constant spec improvements. The same goes for Samsung. That's cool and all, but it seems like Apple and Google's grip on the smartphone market is decreasing. I feel that a hunger is growing for something new. Andromeda could be that something new. But it's going to require solid execution and marketing from Microsoft. The question is if they have the willingness to pull it off.
  • "...it seems like Apple's and Samsung's grip on the smartphone market is decreasing"... Quite the contrary; it's getting harder and harder to find an android alternative to Samsung, and Apple are selling more iPhones than ever. The thing is, the market may be ready to switch away from the traditional smartphone completely...
  • Microsoft needs to just acknowledge Andromeda is in the works, even if they can’t deliver a developer edition until 2019. Samsung will steal their thunder, and Microsoft will be seen as a follower once again. It’s time to sh*t or get off the pot! The Surface Hub 2 is the most interesting thing Microsoft has announced this year, and it won’t be available to consumers until 2019.
  • Satya has clearly stated that he doesn't see the need for a third mobile ecosystem, and with Satya's cloud only vision and with the Robin phone cloud failure 4-5yrs ago, I don't see andromeda being successful with not enough progressive web apps just like WP didn't have enough traditional apps. Good luck, but I wouldn't bet or bank on it.
  • Even if MS announces it first it most likely won't matter.... MS can make Andromeda the most useable, awesome device, and it wouldn't matter because MS has trouble with three things.
    1. Marketing
    2. Persistence
    3. Taking bold in your consumer face chances.
    And, another reason why it won't matter is because MS gives up too damn easy....
    MS needs to change these 4 things before we can even dream about Surface Andromeda making waves.
  • Yepers
  • you said 4 that's only 3, just saying
  • Totally agree with the marketing problem, Microsoft is horrible at marketing.
  • Are you suggesting that Panos Panay’s pathetic ‘teases’ on Twitter are insufficient for Microsoft’s attempt at marketing? <sarcasm>
  • 😆
  • mdeffran, three of Rodney's reasons are numbered, the forth follows the word "And" in his comment after number 3, being, Microsoft gives up too easily. 😉
  • Exactly. Lol. I see you agree.
  • Except that #2 and the last reason are essentially the same thing (lack of persistence and "giving up easily" So i agree there are three things on the list. Semantics at this point but i figure it was worth pointing out ;-)
  • No, I said 4. Read closer.
  • You had four points, but you only numbered three of them. Also, your fourth point was essentially just a repeat of the second.
  • yay someone else saw it too! lol. At the end of the day, Microsoft does not hammer away at any projects long enough for them to have relevance. MS Band was a wonderful product that they could have kept forging ahead and chose to cancel it. Nadella could have still taken the same approach with cloud computing while pouring more resources into Windows Mobile, Band, Cortana, and so on. They have huge war chest of money. I think Developers would have appreciated MSFT to STOP changing course every six months and actually stick to a plan. Thus developers woudn't jump ship so quickly.
  • You missed number 5 .... Satya Nadella ... the fellow who only thinks something's a good idea if he thought of it first. The MS board needs to get rid of him, gather up their courage and get MS following through on innovation rather than just let people speculate about a bunch of nothings.
  • What are you talking about? There are plenty of alternatives to Samsung (oneplus, xiaomi, LG, etc) and with regards to Apple yeah, isheep will be isheep, but even many Apple users are waking up to alternatives in the Android world.
  • With regard to camera chops, the only other competitor seems to be Google and Apple... Maybe upcoming Nokia 9 by hmd will change this?
  • You could slot Huawei and Sony into that list too.
  • You are right, it is really hard to find a company to make the terrible Android experience even worse, nobody i've found is better at making it worse than Samsung. Maybe Oppo which the non-exchangable launcher. Huawai is bad too, but still only slightly worse than Stock.
  • There is only so much you can do to a phone hardware wise now a days. The biggest improvements for phones the last few years have been on the software side which is where Microsoft failed. It's no secret that big improvements to hardware are coming. The problem is that Apple/Samsung/Google will not sit back and watch Microsoft take it. I just don't think that Microsoft has what it takes to do it right especially since they have become more enterprise oriented the last few years. Also, Microsoft really has no mobile presence. This is where Apple/Samsung/Google have an advantage because they already have the developer support and brand name in the mobile space, whereas Microsoft has to start from zero yet again.
  • This is so true. Microsoft needs a killer software experience beyond the interface. They need Microsoft exclusive software that will make people want to buy the phone just to use it. It needs to be what everyone is talking about. Hardware alone won't cut it.
  • In other articles it was discussed that Andromeda should be marketed as a Surface device (mobile PC) that also does phone. They'll never make it if it's marketed as a mobile phone. Sell it as a new kind of tablet, or mobile device within the Surface genre. Capitalize on their PC and software strengths, and the existing infrastructure. Sell it at the stores, and retailers as an always on tablet/PC, and tell them, Oh, you can also make mobile calls and have mobile connectivity. You gotta figure it should have 5G, and the latest version of Continuum.
  • MisterBear, you've been paying attention😉
  • Surface isn’t that attractive a brand to consumers. It’s mostly enterprise. And Samsung did continuum. You don’t need Surface for that, or even a new device. UWP is such an awful ecosystem compared to iOS and Android... I think you just wishfully thinking.
  • N8ter#AC, thanks for jumping in. To your comments: Surface isn’t that attractive a brand to consumers. It’s mostly *enterprise: Don't forget Surface is an aspirational Microsoft branded hardware brand meant primarily as a model for OEMs to emulate. Sure Microsoft would love for consumers (who are becoming more aware of it) to buy it in droves, but the business model is one that Microsoft intentionally positions it as a high-end expensive brand meant to inspire OEMs to emulate. Which they have done, and with 2-in-1s having been the only growing segment of the PC market fora long time, among consumers and businesses, the model worked. And Samsung did continuum. You don’t need Surface for that, or even a new device. Yes Samsung, one OEM in the vast ocean that uses Android did something similar to Continuum. But unlike Continuum it is not a platform wide solution for ANY OEM to adopt based on a single Core for all form factors. UWP is such an awful ecosystem compared to iOS and Android... I think you just wishfully thinking. Microsoft did what no other company has yet done with creating a single core universal platform. Still UWP does need a lot of work.😉
  • I agree. Normally when things get to this point where features are not wowing anymore, a device has hit it's plateau. Whoever comes up with the next breakthrough, whether it be Apple, Google, or Microsoft, will win the future market. The smartphone needs to evolve. Those of us who adopted Windows Phone hoped that the evolution would have been for a universal OS, but no one has successfully pulled it off. Here we are in 2018, soon 2019, and I still need several devices to get work done.
  • Several devices? A phone and a computer. Not sure what else you would need.
  • Maybe others are different, I have a computer for my CAD, a phone for on the go, and a tablet for marking up drawings in the field, taking notes, editing docs, responding to emails, and other general use stuff on the go. Yes, something like the Surface Book can work as two of those devices, but it is terrible at being a tablet in the field. Using a phone that turned into a tablet that had the full capability of a computer for most things besides CAD would allow me to buy a 700 tower instead of a 2000 laptop potentially... but I always see the need for at least two devices... having one less device might be really nice.
  • Buy a Galaxy Note. They’ve been on the market since 2011... specifically for people like you. You don’t need a tablet. The $2,000 laptop has a screen built in, and a $700 PC isn’t going to be great for CAD. It won’t have anything better than a 3GB 1060 or an even worse RX GPU. Also will need an external display, anyways. It depends on whether you like being able to use a “mobile workstation” that can easily be moved from place to place or not - which really depends on how much you travel around and need to bring computing power with you. The obsession with one OS to rule them all is pretty extreme, as is the obsession with one device to rule them all. Microsoft has an awful mobile and UWP app ecosystem, and I don’t see that changing anytime soon. This wouldn’t be a great UX from that end, anyways. This was exactly the problem they had with Windows Phone and Mobile. Platforms need an ecosystem, and software to hold them up.
  • But the Note is ****, I tried to write on it last year, it sucks... Why the **** would you want a paper that has stupid round edges? It makes ZERO sense, its rubbish... A flat screen (like a flat paper), is easy to write on, a round screen however, is not... There is definetely some space left for another OS, Microsoft needs to look at Apple for marketing and take their technological skill to make it into a success... They've got the money, they just need to use it in a proper way ;)
  • Not so much willingness as the ability. Real bang-pow consumer success has eluded them for over a decade.
  • Your theory only applies if you're someone zealously upgrades every year. 85% of Apple's iPhone user base is using an iPhone 7 series or older iPhone. That's who these iPhones are aimed at. " With an iPhone installed base of approximately 750M users, less than 15% of the iPhone installed base bought a new flagship iPhone over the last nine months. " https://www.aboveavalon.com/notes/2018/8/15/apples-growth-story
  • ...one of the things that made windows phone to fail was immitating Apple closed system paradigm without the clout of executing it as perfect as Apple. If you are immitating, you have to offer something better than what you are immitating. Besides, even though people around here including myself have come to appreciate the efficiency of the Windows Mobile skin, but it was a turn off to the absolute majority of people. If Microsoft comes back to mobile, please do make the skin adaptable. Having to deal with square tiles is suffocatingly unappetizing.
  • The Windows Phone failed because it had no developer support. Look at iOS and Android. You could barely get a decent app on Microsoft’s platform - including UWP. They’re now on PWAs, throwing everything out there to try to get developers to pay any attention to it. Windows Phone was basically a glorified feature phone for social media mavens. Windows Mobile was very poorly executed (worse than BB10) and both of those failed fue to mediocre app support. BB ended up just going full Android. Nokia is doing the same, now. I don’t think there is room for another mobile platform. Developers will not allow themselves to be stretched that thin. With Windows basically resetting with UWP and letting other APIs stagnate, it isn’t even looking like a premiere platform for desktop development. The ecosystem is filled with “legacy software” that doesn’t even run optimally on the latest hardware (high DPI screens, multi core, GPUs, etc.). Apple was a lot more diligent with macOS, and have not self-sabotaged their platform so much. MacOS really is looking good, there, especially with the ecosystem and iOS tie-ins coming. Microsoft just has bad execution and product rollout timing. They move too slow, IMO.
  • Frankly, I don't trust Microsoft's commitment anymore. Cortana was ahead of the competition, and they let it become irrelevant. The only unique feature now is asking you if you want to have a text read aloud. Microsoft bought Nokia's phone division with promises of great things to come, and they didn't do anything but release what Nokia already had in production. There was a similar situation with the Band. Microsoft has a problem of getting 80% of the way there and then moving onto something else. The Surface line and Xbox seem like the only physical products they care about, but even Xbox is starting to feel like an after thought. I loved my Lumias and Windows Mobile is still my favorite mobile OS. However, I don't have faith in Microsoft's long term commitment.
  • A sentiment shared by many, unfortunately, and sadly with good reason; they need to nail it with the Andromeda, and keep on backing it with all their might, through thick and thin!
  • Agreed. I, probably like many others who are on this site, were burned by Microsoft with Surface RT, Windows Phone 7 --> 8, 8 --> 10, Microsoft Band... I had invested in the whole ecosystem with Surface RT, multiple WPs, the Band 2, Surface Pro 3, Xbox, and Groove Music but MSFT decided it wasn't worth it to invest further with a majority of those products. If they come out with another mobile product, whether it be a phone, tablet, band, watch or whatever... this time I think I'll watch from the sidelines.
  • Exactly this. I've been a champion for many Microsoft projects over the years -- usually at the expense of great (perhaps justifiable) derision from my colleagues -- but now I kind of don't care what they do because as soon as I commit, whatever "it" is disappears. My beloved Windows Phone? Dead. Groove Music? Dead. Cortana? Dead. I like my Surface Pro, but it could die tomorrow. Who knows.
  • I believe Microsoft always have the tools needed to became a leader in the consumer space. They choose not to go this path, though, being tempted by the lucrative enterprise market. However, the more I see the new generation that is growing with Google software and how different it is from Microsoft, especially because it is simpler to use and relay most of the complex functions to the AI, I am afraid Microsoft is loosing track of the future of computing. Once again, they have the tech and the human talent to compete but they don't see to be focused in what I think it is a big thread. Perhaps I am the fool that doesn't realize Microsoft's big picture but it seems like my daughter will rather have a Chromebook than a Windows laptop.
  • They could have done well in both consumer and enterprise. But for big plans you need a competent CEO, that does not only care about costs $$$, one that does not fire experienced engineers and replaces them with guinea pig insiders, because they are free to use.
    Yes, MS could have done many things, but Nadella happened. You are not a fool, because the is NO big picture, only MS's delusional dreams. They are irrelevant, yet another behemoth corporation that is meh...
  • Indeed, in some ways their brand is tarnished beyond repair.
  • How is a dual screen folding phone going to compete when competitors are about to release single folding screen devices? Won't the Andromeda form factor be viewed as obsolete? Also, Andromeda cannot match, let alone beat, iPhone or Android when it comes to bang for buck. They do not have a mobile ecosystem or even platform at this point. It will take them years to build these things. Until then, they will need to compete on price if they hope to compete at all.
  • Single folding screen devices... That remains to be seen!
  • I believe Samsung has an event in November where they will show off a folding screen phone. Although I don't think it will be consumer ready yet.
  • Huawei and Samsung are both about to announce folding phones that will ship in 2019. These devices will have full, modern, touch ecosystems at launch. Not only will Andromeda be behind on hardware, it will also have a software and services gap. No one is going to buy a small touch device so they can run old legacy keyboard and mouse software.
  • Official link...? I for one have no immediate use for a foldable android smartphone, but I could easily use a foldable windows pc in several professional and private situations.
  • A foldable Windows PC would be terrible. Microsoft has no Windows interface or software fit for a 7" screen. That device would be a guaranteed failure. Android would be perfect for such a device. The apps already exist and they even scale according to screen size. It would useful even when not docked to a larger screen.
  • https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2018/08/16/samsung-galaxy-f-gal...
  • We don't really know the exact form factor for Microsoft's rumored device. The only thing we've seen are patent pics and fan videos. We don't know what tech will be used. Whatever it is, it won't matter, if Microsoft can't commit and follow through. Unfortunately, Microsoft has adopted Satya's attention span, when it comes to devices. IF they produce a mobile Surface pocket PC with telephony, it will need to grab attention and consumer interest out the box. If not, it will end up being another garage project hopeful. As much as I want to support such a device, I just don't feel like Microsoft will commit to the long haul. The Band was actually starting to gain a little market. If they had continued progress, I believe the Band would actually be one of the best fitness trackers, with smart watch features available.
  • Everything pointed to a pocketable, dual screen, mobile device with a 360° hinge. It certainly didn't have a single folding screen.
  • it may have two screens but it's not dual screen. dual screen implies that the two. screens won't work together based off the patents that's not the case they can either be combined into one screen and work seamlessly together or you can use them singularly.
  • You really want to bring "bang for buck" to the discussion here where Apple and Samsung come in at at least 750 €?
  • What is Microsoft going to offer for €750? You know Surface isn't going to be any cheaper.
  • This is true. The device won't be cheap. What it will be is something different, and it'll be Microsofts big responsibility to make it something desirable...
  • No bleached, Surface certainly won't be cheaper, but like Surface Pro, it will be an aspirational device meant to be emulated by OEM partners. As such, it will be a first gen device representing a device category not a one-off device. Consequently, partner devices within the category, just as with 2-in-1s, will be meant to come in a variety of shapes, sizes and various price points from accessible and affordable to high-end and expensive. I think this is one of the most important parts of this discussion that is often forgotten (or overlooked) that I find myself interjecting every now and then. 🙂 We can't forget (if it ever launches😉) that Surface Andromeda represents the beginning of a pocket PC category, so we can't limit discussion of this topic to the costs or factors that may be limited to or specific to t an MS.
  • Valid points but Satya but with progressive web apps or whatever new term for apps they come to with, or won't matter without them unless your can show me some actual data reflecting the decline in app usage on devices 7" or less. Also can a real IT professional like myself really routinely work on a device 10" or less daily? I championed Microsoft for the 5-7yrs with WP, band, harmon kardon, but Satya, Joe and crew clearly doesn't have that same commitment to its supporters. Despite that, I still have my HK, surface pro 4, surface laptop (2), surface 3, office 365, sharepoint, dynamics 365 premier, and use several of their apps on my Android mobile (MS launcher, next, office, outlook, BC, mile IQ, and SharePoint). If others are like me, can you tell me why Satya would invest in a pocket PC with cellular (Andromeda)? Honestly, we all know that using a 7" or less device for work is not a long term solution. And to all of these "Andriod would be better" champion fans (bleached), some I use and Android mobile device and own some tablets, I cannot routinely use those for work either, I always go back to my laptop or desktop to do real work as cheesy as that may sound so does Satya really have it wrong here? Despite me wishing they had a good mobile option, I have to thing about how I really function on a daily basis! Unfortunately, android devices are media consumption and app playing units. Chromebooks are still limited by not supporting the same legacy applications you frown at and until the developers of those applications covert then to modern apps or PWA's which both android and MS support, chromebooks are essentially stuck in suspended animation. When and if these legacy aplication get converted to PWA's Microsoft will be on equal footing and have a chance at mobile.
  • For a handheld device truly to be in the pocket PC category it needs to be fully functional as a PC in its own right. Projecting screen and keyboard. Hardware is nowhere near that yet so this Andromeda is just another fall short device.
  • An aspirational device without a proper ecosystem, a mediocre buggy OS, and a zero commitment company behind it. Wow! I am not sure how many OEMs would trust this move...again, after the Elte X3 failure and Harman's Shittana speaker failure. I doubt HP is that dumb to yet again go ahead with a DOA device, especially after their X2 ARM Tablet caught NO meaningful sales :)).
    This andromeda of your dreams, has nothing special...windows on a 7" screen :)))) Wow! I am sure the mouse will have a special cursor for this Honestly I do hope those imbeciles launch this. Maybe when you'll see it FAIL miserably, you'll stop with this fanboy nonsense.
  • Mmgn I'm simply providing analysis for what Microsoft is doing. Sure I and many other people hope to see it launch. And your persistent presence here suggests a level of dedication as well. Let's see what happens. 😉
  • You can get a Galaxy S with DEX dock for dirt cheap. Note only needs a dongle. Some Smart TVs are shipping with screen mirroring that works natively with Android, but not Windows (I have one). I doubt most OEMs will produce hardware as good as Samsung and Apple flagships, with an ecosystem to match. The device, itself, is no longer enough. Microsoft still doesn’t have a Photos app for mobile, FFS.
  • Why are we talking about this and Microsoft in the same sentence when we already know it isn't going to happen? This is not a debate or reality for a Microsoft lead by Satya Nadella and as long as their stock is trading at over $100/per share the board isn't going to call for his head. Azure and cloud services are his only focus and is the Microsoft reality.
  • This drove me to Windows Phone initially (2011) - smooth clean os on low power devices, nice hardware (Lumia 500 series) and a cutting edge AI all unlocked and around $100! It blew my mind back then. Then Lumia 950 with amazing camera... Then years of languishing. Very disappointed.
  • Not that I think microsoft will even make a phone Andromeda or not, but a single folding phone is a rebirth of a flip phone with a hidden hinged mechanism which doesn't excite me at all. All of the renders so far are ugly even the alleged flexible folding screen ones.
  • Yawn...
  • Microsoft doesn't think so
  • Andromeda sounds like a PC with telephony, not a phone. A folding screen allows for a lot more screen real estate than phones used as tablets allow. Battery life is a good draw as well. If marketed as a business device then a lot of the chatter in these opinions may be pointless. Let's at least wait to see one before writing it off.
  • That's fair (that it might be marketed as a business device) but then again, they marketed the HP Elite x3 as a business device and how did that go? I agree with a few others above that MSFT lacks a vibrant ecosystem which would be needed to make this successful, first and foremost. Secondly, I think MSFT has burned bridges with many of those who once espoused their services and products. A lot of businesses use Windows PCs because that's what runs their LOB applications, which in my experience, aren't written as UWP apps and probably won't be useable on a smaller form factor.
  • No apps. Microsoft is doomed and this thing is DoA. Lame and pathetic company destined to fail at everything because of their ignorance and missing the mobile turning point. Andromeda, bla bla get real and get with times. Noone even cares about MS anymore and Surface is a joke honestly. Nobody is taking Surface seriously besides a few fanatic fans and sites like this. Noone even knows what Surface is. Just look around - everything is Macs
  • What are you doing here...?
  • Retard! the Surface is a huge success
  • Ok, where are the units sold numbers?
  • Just look arround you. In Germany it seems like following on premium convertibles/tablets/ultrabooks:
    30% Surface, 20% Dell, 20% HP, 10% others (Mostly Asus), 15% Macbooks and 5% iPads.
  • I like those numbers. Where are they from?
  • If you're gonna be a troll, it's "No one" not "Noone". Mac OS is still only about 25% of the total market. Now begone. You have no power here.
  • That is purely because Mac OS runs ONLY on Macs which are high end expensive devices. Apple do not produce low end budget junk full of compromises ****** materials and retarded built quality. That being said in their categories and in these 25% they are the number 1 selling devices on the planet outselling everyone and making the biggest pile of money ever. Troll that!
  • "Mac OS is still only about 25% of the total market"? I remember when it was 5%. Macs are doing VERY well.
  • Indeed. Apple is increasing its market share with laughably high prices and the iOS, Watch, TV and services (Music, iTunes, etc.) ecosystem is making the macs worth the compromise for millions. The people here don’t have a clue what they’re talking about. Get an iPhone, and macOS instantly becomes more attractive than Windows unless you’re a gamer or professional for specific app needs (which aren’t available on macOS).
  • Jason Ward reappears!
    Let me make myself a cuppa and read this Warditorial. Unfortunately for MS I'm already committed this year: my Lumia 950XL died so I got a Huawei P20 Pro as my main and will be getting a BlackBerry Key2 LE as my side phone. So IF a Surface phone comes out, its a no for me until next year!
    🤗
  • 🙂 Reappears!???😃 I've haven't gone anywhere! I've been writing ✍🏽 regularly: www.windowscentral.com/author/jason-ward 😉
  • It's unlikely to be available this year. Also, good luck with terrible Huawai Android GUI "Improvements" - it's quite hard to make Android worse - they and Samsung still manage.
  • I have been using a Huawei P20 pro for about a month now. Not sure what your prior experience was with them if any, but so far so good for me. It's a beast of a phone.
  • Unfortunately Microsoft still lack of the right operating system with adaptive shell. That's all
  • The notch... Just can't understand the thinking behind it. Will never buy that design as it's beyond pointless. Dont wanna buy ios or android but guess i have too as MS ****** up and gave up on something that had no issues for those who used it. Another phone that's windows based... I'm sold already but then what. No home speakers, no home screen and the internet of things with windows core and Cortana core. It's not happening is it MS. Gonna sit back for a few years, see who wins and then buy in. Same issue with hdDVD and BluRay, BetaMax and VHS but this time its google vs apple vs Amazon. Ios vs android. Who will win?
  • This isn't the same as VHS vs Betamax. There doesn't have to be winners. They will all be around in a couple years. Google will probably have the majority of the market but Amazon will also be strong and Apple will also have their loyal users.
  • Yeah, story repeats itself. The best system seems to loose always .
  • That's because "best" is highly subjective. VHS vs Betamax -story is famous and incorrect, as it was far from "duhh, Betamax was better". HDDVD was inferior to BluRay, WP OS + ecosystem was inferior to its competitors, both from consumer, but also OEM and developer points of view, and it had a less focused owner. * https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2003/jan/25/comment.comment
  • Thinking is simple. People want phones with larger screens at smaller sizes. That’s hard to do with 1/3-1/2 inch bezels on the top and bottom; never mind the sides. Same thinking with those awful Infinity Screens on Damsung devices that people “rave” about. iPhone X’s Max is basically the same size as the 8 Plus, with a much larger screen. The thinking, and rationale, is flawless. Apple just had the balls to go there first. Now most OEMs are following because they can just point back to Apple and say “Worked for them, so why not” when anyone complains. The notch doesn’t matter. It’s more the screen cutting into the bezel than the opposite, in an attempt to keep the design as symmetrical as possible and not waste any space on the front of the phone. The only time I have issues with the notch, is if it’s on a design like the “alleged” Pixel 3 XL. The notch on that phone is way too deep, and it has a bottom Bezel, resulting in a design that lacks symmetry and simply looks stupid/unattractive. Have no issue with the Notch on most phones, though, iPhones included.
  • Jason good article. Do you know if folks at MSFT read articles like this or do they just stay in their PPT presentation bubbles and miss potentially next wave. I know MSFT does not want to do me too stuff, but you have to be willing to fail to succeed, there is huge penalty in this ever changing technological world for not trying. For MSFT, it is even more painful because the ingredients are there for them. The consumer base are there because they MSFT embraced other platforms by making sure android and iOS get the best polished apps of their offerings meaning users know them, and still depend on them, they did not let another startup or aggressive developer summon the boldness to offer MSFT's bread and butter on these competing devices. So, I agree with you, this is the time for MSFT put up and stop all this dilly dallying.
  • Thanks. Yes, I got word some time ago that my articles were read and passed around internally. Particularly my mobile analysis "what Microsoft is doing." Though some readers here who couldn't/wouldn't see what I "saw" and shared as Microsoft's mobile strategy regarding a transition from Windows-on -phone to windows-on-mobile via a pocket PC as I began explaining it years ago (2015) during the height of Windows phones struggles, it seems internally I was hitting the nail on the head and my work was passed "subtly" by those "in the know" to those "not in the know". That, along with just being raised to be confident and to stick to my convictions beyond opposition or popular opinion was one of the reasons why I was I unmoved when naysayers would say Microsoft was not working on anything beyond Windows-on-phone. As time progressed, and WC began getting leaks of things like the "Andromeda" name, Core OS, folding device patents, and such, those details began filling in the lines to the analysis I had long been presenting about Microsoft's pocket PC with an inking focus. I would then intentionally write pieces, incorporating the "new details" that emerged, into the narrative I began in 2015, (though to many it seemed I was simply repeating the same thing,) to ensure that I provided that new data (or other relevant news) with the context of that years-long narrative. Ironically, now at this point, given the various Andromeda info that has emerged, and even the "reversal" in position of some other sites that claimed MS was done with mobile and was not working on anything else beyond phones, some of those here who also adamantly opposed my analysis that MS was working on a post-smartphone Pocket PC with telephony have shifted there dialogue from "no there is no such pocketable PC project at Microsoft", to now a silent acknowledgement that I was right by now arguing "Surface Andromeda will never launch, or if it does it won't succeed." And that's fine. Because the core purpose of my pieces wasn't to say Microsoft would definitely succeed. It was to explain to audiences, what Microsoft was doing and what the intended outcome was. It was doing Andromeda, a pocket PC, just as I said. Succeed or fail. Make it to market or not. Microsoft was doing Andromeda. And yes, internally, MS read my stuff, and as I said passed it around.😉 And from where I'm sitting, I think WC was the only site that pressed a consistent unwavering narrative, on Microsoft's windows-on-phone strategy being part of a larger windows-on-mobile strategy, that didn't shift with the news and always pointed to the pocket PC strategy that turned out to be Andromeda, which was "confirmed" by the internal email the Verge wrote about on June 20th 2018 that convinced a lot of people that Microsoft was indeed doing what I have been saying they were doing all along.😉
  • Yeh, yeh, yeh Jason, I get it, you were only reporting what you get when you connect the dots. That's fine, but ultimately not of great import given MS' track record of not following through. You were probably, possibly, right about what was going on but so far it has come to nothing. Of more interest, to me anyway, is why MS has not delivered in this area and for the life of me I cannot think of a credible reason except that Nadella does not want progress here. Is that something that you and WC can comment on?
  • That's why you're posting delusional crap? If you would be serious for a moment you would hold MS accountable for their catastrophic failures, extremely buggy and mediocre wincrap10 OS and their lack of commitment...knowing that your articles are read within MS! How delusional can you be to think that praising their @$$ for every crap they do will bring a better future for MS?? Seriously?
  • Hi mmgn: Thank you for being a faithful reader of my work, which as my previous post to which you are commenting highlights, was an accurate assessment of what Microsoft is doing which is the goal of my analysis. To your comment: "If you would be serious for a moment you would hold MS accountable for their catastrophic failures, extremely buggy and mediocre wincrap10 OS and their lack of commitment...knowing that your articles are read within MS! How delusional can you be to think that praising their …. for every crap they do will bring a better future for MS?? Seriously? ...I simply say perhaps you are not as familiar with my work as you think. At the link below you will find ALL of my articles dating back to 2015 when I began writing for Windows Central. Among those pieces you will find me holding Microsoft accountable for its abandonment of consumers, the mistake of focusing Windows Mobile on the enterprise (in a series of articles), its refocusing and losing ground with Cortana, not building mindshare for HoloLens and AR (allowing Apple and Google to dominate mindshare), suggestion for a consumer-focused, less expensive HoloLens, failure with a range of consumer-focused devices, lack of marketing, and suggestions for marketing, failure to use resources it posses to aggressively push toward closing the app gap, a poor tablet OS experience, a failure to market Paint 3D when it introduced and pushed 3D as being for everyone, an article pushing them to build/address its ecosystem before Build 2017 to prep for what was then a possible 2018 Surface Andromeda and more: https://www.windowscentral.com/author/jason-ward The articles are there, forever etched in the ether of the internet, accessible and visbile for all to see at any time. 😉
  • It doesn't really matter if the time is right for Andromeda, when MS appears to still not be ready, app gap is still very much a problem, and there's very little certainty that they'd nail the launch anyway.
  • App gap? This isn't a smartphone...
  • You can say that all day, but a pocketable mobile device with telephony is going to be expected to have apps.
  • As bleached said, it's a pocket device with telephony. People are going to expect apps, and the windows store does not compare.
  • Does not matter how MS or you fanboys call it. A pocket device WILL compete with smartphones and it will fail without a proper ecosystem behind it, which BTW, it does NOT have anymore...and no apps optimized for MOBILE USE!!
  • Pretty sure a computer that lacks apps is even worse.
  • I disagree with the whole app gap thing. They simply missed the smartphone market. Developers are not going to write apps for a platform that has no users. Google had android while apple had iOS and google succeeded where Microsoft should have. They where simply to late.
  • My concern would be Andromeda being an operating system that can be fully used by finger touch, where Windows 10 tablet mode is not so user friendly , not everyone is comfortable using a pen/stylus.
  • Windows 10 needs touching up on the touch interface, that's for sure. But then again, that is supposed to be the reason the device is delayed...
  • How pathetic can they be to struggle at making their OS touch friendly :)))))))) while the big guys in mobile bother with innovation and new stuff, MS is stuck at making their OS touch optimized :))))) FAIL!!
  • They’ve been struggling since Windows XP with this.
  • The time will only be right for Andromeda when it's completely finished -- not even any minor bugs -- it's relatively affordable and it has a content ecosystem (apps/PWAs/whatever) to support it. Without ALL of those things it will be dead before arrival.
  • If Andromeda does come out, you better believe it won't be affordable out of the gate. I would even go as far as to say it'll be more expensive than the iPhone XS Max. And I don't mean that in a negative way simply because it won't be a device for the masses.
  • If it isn't for the masses, why bother?
  • You and I don't agree on much, bleached, but we're on the same page here. This HAS to be a *relatively* affordable device intended for consumers. Otherwise we're looking at another HP Elite X3. If they want to release a business version as well that's fine but they need to come out at the same time. Microsoft has to show the consumer space that they are going to stick with this device like they've stuck with Xbox and the Surface line or the WP faithful won't come back and the iOS and Android crowd won't give them the time of day.
  • Why would I go back to rebuy $3-500 worth of content, Apps, iAPs, eBooks, AudioBooks, etc. on their platform. Not to mention an new Console, STB, etc. since I went Pas4 instead of XBox - and then there’s the Games and iAP there. That’s the cost of taking yourself out of the market for years and treating your users like black sheep. You literally remove yourself from consideration because people can’t wait around for years without investing and actually benefiting from the tech they’re purchasing. Have to move on and live life. Microsoft isn’t that important to me in my daily life. Other platforms and device do exist, and will continue to do so.
  • "Many Android phones rival this tech but iPhone's tailored synergy of hardware and software coupled with a refined implementation of "old" and new features deliver an impactful future-focused package." That is incorrect. There is not an Android device out there that has anywhere near the AI / ML / AR processing power of Apple's A12 Neural Engine. And if you're referring to Google Assistant, the benefits of that are due to Google's Cloud and not any Android on-device processing.
  • None of Neural Engine matters since the tech is still fairly infant and Apple doesn’t backport most software innovations. So you’ll need a new phone if you want to stay on top of things. I’d refrain from caring too much about benchmarks and marketing hyperbole, especially as it pertains to A.I. and VR on mobile.
  • I love the optimism of J Ward and hope there is a chance of this 'Surface Andromeda' (a phone) coming to fruition, my faith in MS as a tech leader is gone. I actually trust Google, Apple, Amazon (yes), Samsung - to lead a new consumer super product. MS always misses the boat. Sometimes too soon. The 1520 was 6". Almost 5 years later...Apple has a iPhablet. But I still hope MS stays in the consumer hardware game....
  • Honestly even I don't care anymore about whether Microsoft is going to drop another device.
    Even if they did chances are it's a piece of crap software-wise that instead of enjoying, you'll have to tolerate it as usual.
    I mean look at Windows 10 on PC, where Microsoft supposedly excels. It's been a number of builds and they haven't fixed the popup for notification area icons, where the popup goes under the taskbar and you can't fully see it. What do we expect from these people anyway?
  • Stop thinking of it as a smartphone. Microsoft is going to market Andromeda as a compact always connected pc. Comparisons to android or iPhones will be difficult. They want it to be (pardon the pun) apples and oranges. I think Jason is right, most people seem to be looking for a compelling reason as to why they should buy the new IPhone and not finding it. The market may be looking for something new.
  • Exactly. Give me a folding tablet w/ a stylus & at least LTE that fits in a big pocket & I'm a happy camper.
  • Just let the "Andromeda" thing die already, damn
  • ONly one problem. Intel does not deliver a processor that can compete with the iPhone's processor. Snapdragon 850? probably not either. Yeah, I like the fact that Win10 allows, inking, keyboard, and mouse But iOSstill is a stiff competitor with small devices where keyboard and mouse are inconvenient to carry along. Surface Go? Now you are approaching the minimum size where keyboard and mouse become convenient to carry along. There is a lot more software improvement before Win10 can compete against iOS at smartphone size form factors. I think it has alot to do with inking. A stylus is far more accurate than your finger. If you have top notice inking and character conversion, where apps can move from small screens to big screens, then you have a case for Andromeda.
  • 845 is still worse than the A11 Bionic, by a fairly large margin. I honestly would be surprised is SD 850 beat that CPU. Maybe 855.... maybe, but they’re competing with Apple’s 2017 silicon... ... not the A12. Apples GPU is much, much, much better than QC’s as well.
  • Bring it on. I for one would love to see this come to market. I am again sick of using either iOS or Android. I have pre-ordered the purism phone just because I need an alternative and am willing to take whichever comes first. Or both. I think I could still deal with the app gap if the browser is somewhat improved and has adblock plus.
  • So if they finally come out with Andromeda and I buy one, will I have to re-purchase all the apps I bought for my Windows Phone before MS abandoned Windows Phone?
  • :)) if you can find them, yes.
  • NO MS allows the apps to be installed on 10 devices only if you exceed the 10 devices limit it will tell you you need to remove a device from the list.
  • We need to all realize that the phone OS and the app ecosystem that goes with it is just a temporary stepping stone. The phone OS is not the ideal solution, but back 11 years ago, given the power of computing that could fit in your pocket, something watered down had to be offered. With todays phones, simplifying the OS and the apps is no longer necessary. The problem though is the form factor of a phone. A phone is just too small for a lot of different type of tasks, though it has the computing power to deal with these tasks. If you pay $1499 for a phone, it seems really dumb to also pay $1499 for a laptop just so you can have a bigger screen and keyboard. The most revolutionary thing about Andromeda will not be that it folds, but that it can be a desktop computer, using the same app ecosystem (e.g. UWP and PWA) for phone, tablet, and desktop. If you look at the specs of Thunderbolt 3, there is no reason why you couldn't power your phone and hook up two monitors, a camera, keyboard, mouse, and some other USB device, all running from a single Thunderbolt 3 connection off the phone. Now I don't know if Andromeda will have a Thunderbolt 3 jack, but that type of tech will easily make a pocketable device become so much more.
  • Thanks Jeff. You get it😉 The main thing is the ability to be a PC and a pocketable device. The power is there and the unified Core is there. Now if MS could just get the accompanying universal app ecosystem filled, proving the ability to move across multiple form factors with a single device/OS/apps would we'd be cooking. But yes, you hit it. Computing on mobile is getting to where we need more. MS with Windows is coming from the opposite direction iOS and Android are coming from though mobile computing is moving toward where Windows is, a more power and capable OS. The challenge is making Windows more streamline for mobile scenarios while retaining its power when in "desktop mode" via Continuum, ir even in "tablet mode." Thus, Windows Core OS. None if this is easy and without challenges. But yes, getting to where a mobile device via hardware and software can be a PC is the goal.
  • It also needs to replace my phone. It really should. Otherwise, I'm still stuck moving around with two devices when i really have to work, although possibly then two pocketable ones. Give it a first class camera and telephony, I'm sold.
  • Thank you Jason for the feedback. When Microsoft announced last October that they were not continuing with Window 10 Mobile, I was in shock. Computing getting smaller, connected, and intelligent is where the future is. How could Microsoft abandon mobile I asked. That is when I started to search the internet for answers on Microsoft's long range plan. And that is when I started to run into your articles. Your articles has had a significant influence on my understanding and thinking about Microsoft's long range, big picture plans. What you lay out makes sense. It is not IF pocket PCs will be common place in the future, but WHEN. It seems the hardware is very close now from the looks of the power of the iPhone X S. I believe that people that like Windows 10 desktops will want a Windows 10 pocket PC, because when used in desktop mode, they will want the Windows 10 desktop experience.
  • So, a pocket device that will be a junk because no proper OS for touch, no mobile apps besides a few garbage PWAs maybe, and also a garbage PC because of the poor performance as a PC. You fanboys should stop being ok with half baked crap from Microjunk...maybe this way they will actually deliver something good.
  • Smartphones are PCs, running form factor-appropriate platforms. I find it oddly hypocritical to suggest that smartphone platforms are good enough, simply because Microsoft has failed there. Windows has more legacy cruft than the average Linux district, and certainly macOS. Enterprise focus has really chained Microsoft down. They should have skipped he Windows branding and developed a mobile OS whose success didn’t hinge on them bastardizing their desktop UX. Apple did well at that, last I checked. This seems like a bias-appropriate argument to make. And it’s not like companies like Samsung aren’t already going there (DEX)... We might see phones that go from Android to Chromebooks when plugged into a display soon. The competition is already moving to this point, without destroying products in their wake the way Microsoft has. Apple is porting AppKit to macOS. Samsung has DEX. ChromeOS will have the entire Android app ecosystem at its disposal. Apps like Affinity Photo/Designer are impossible on UWP, but are on iPad with almost complete parity with the Windows and macOS versions. Microsoft is behind the 8 ball. This device is still a hypothesis, as far as we know.
  • I'm so sick of Androids I came to within a hair's breadth of doing something I swore I would never do. If it weren't for the fact that the iphone's can't multi-task I would have gone down to best buy and bought my first ever apple product today. We need a real alternative to Apple and big(oogle) brother for those of us who want to get real work done without having to trade our privacy to do it.
  • Two things MS need to do.
    1) get a Win 10 mobile root kit into the wild for popular android models. This will keep other options open. Or simple commission a full MS phone from a mainstream Android manufacturer, much like Google does with Pixel
    2) get a device, any powerful processor, that can host all the software MS is developing. It does not have to be a phone format but must be mobile. Getting back to the office you just link to a screen, keyboard and mouse. Gee wiz maybe they have even done that before.
    They have to get their hands dirty with hardware to get proof of concept out there
  • I wish MS was as active and enthusiastic as you describe above doing something with the stagnant Win10 mobile. But being mainly a software company it seems the company takes their hardware division as a hobby....Also hardware leasing has high risk that MS wants to avoid getting into...Perhaps, MS still lives in the past....of memories of failed Nokia phone... But business has risks, ups and downs, profit and loss...MS basically needs to kill its fear, operate in the present time, and be free...
  • Andromeda represents a series of high risks and gambles for both Microsoft and the surface brand. As much as I'd love to see this device, I just get the feeling that Microsoft don't have the appetite for more hardware gambles.
  • just need some device that will last for a good number of years even if not strongly supported so I don't have to get Android or iOS...
  • Microsoft faces a unique dilemma as they are still look at as the dominant software provider for most of the corporate contingent. We talk about how Skype should be a lot better, yet you turn on any news station if they are video teleconferencing going on, it's more than likely being done so via Skype. We talk about the missteps that Satya has made, yet Microsoft shares are the highest they've ever been. So you're looking at a conflicting dynamic that has on one side the consumer point of view, which is more Windows mobile centric wanting Microsoft to deploy more resources, and more attention to engineering a turn of the century device, and you have metric managers on the other side showing the market growth and implying to continue on the course currently moving forward. Apples paradigm has always been to give the consumers what they want. Google seems to be give the consumers a combination of what they need and what they want. Microsoft needs to assume an identity and project from that. What is their paradigm? I would say it's give you want you need to be productive give you what you want to stay connected. I like the idea of Andromeda, but I don't know if Microsoft is as sold on the idea as they once were. Personally, whatever form factor is presented, I just would like to see Microsoft push a portable device that provides the interface that Windows mobile does, because as outdated as it is, it's still the best out there.
  • Yep. It’s done via Skype. And always looks terrible and often has issues with drop outs and disconnects, audio not coming through, etc. Skype is used cause Skype runs everywhere, so it’s an easy solution. They could use Discord and get better quality video calls, to be frank. In any case, the issue with Skype had more to do with the overbearing UI and then iterating that forever while basic features like Delivery and Read Receipts took forever to come. They also updated their mobile clients out of lockstep, which causes all sorts of interoperability across platforms with things like file transfers (when iOS used the new Cloud sharing hit Android and Windows we’re still limited to P2P file sharing, and therefore wouldn’t work with it), etc. Yes, it works well enough on a basic level for video and VOIP calling, but the messaging is most important; and that’s where it was failing hard. I chat with a lot of people in Europe, so I’m about to ditch it for WhatsApp, anyways. Those are the only people I use Skype with...
  • How long are you guys gonna hope for a windows/surface/andromeda phone..... ITS NOT GONNA HAPPEN
  • So stay far away from this site. Beye.
  • Aaah! I got my much-needed ray of Jason-Sunshine! With all of that negativity out there, it is much appreciated! I keep hoping that he is right, and that someday soon we will see this Andromeda. I gave up my much-loved Lumia Icon at Christmas, and bought a Pixel 2 (which is a damn fine machine), as I felt like I couldn't wait any longer for MS to bring out the fabled Andromeda. As soon as MS DOES bring it out, I will happily buy it ... I truly love the Windows OS. Even though I no longer have a Windows Phone, I keep coming back to Windows Central to read Jason's articles, and to look forward to a future something-computing-telephony-device! Keep up the good work!
  • "Apple's new iPhones suggest that all things must have notches. Windows laptops. Actual windows. Contact lenses. Jeans. Pets. All things."
  • Issue is the same as always, apps. Although Andromeda would at least give it real differentiation it's still all about the apps now more than ever. It's a messed up situation but it's the reality.
  • "One device for all scenarios" that will only work with a hololens type device, if ever, and even then you will need local/online "cloud" assistance for compute intensive tasks like gaming and video editing among other things, not to mention the accompanying I/O devices namely kb-mouse-joysticks for each task but in the end I think thats where we will be sooner or later
  • Microsoft has always been in the mobile PC business, and they continue to be so. What ever the technology of the time, Microsoft was there. Lunch box and portable computers. Greyscale tablets running DOS and Windows 3.1. Pocket PCs. The products on the market today. Just because Microsoft doesn't currently push a smartphone device, doesn't take them out of the mobile technology game. They're just not in the currently uninspiring mobile phone game. Every glimpse of the near future that Microsoft has promoted has had a handheld device with phone capability. The competition has been mobile phones with some computing capability; smartphones. Microsoft is correct to pursue mobile computers with phone capability. Do you spend more time talking on the phone with your smartphone, or are you mostly using it's other features?
  • Peoples take on this goes far beyond “do they have a new flagship out this year.” You’re being quite disingenuous.
  • Hmmm..... no thanks! I think the time for open source handheld devices has come.
  • From your keyboard to Microsoft's ears. My current fear is that since Microsoft has been trying to see around the bend to a revolutionary instead of evolutionary device and is taking so long to get there that they may be beaten to the punch. Again. With a rumored folding Galaxy device in the near future (in spite of the advantages a Microsoft device would have over an Android) will they feel the need to "retrench" again and give up on Andromeda?
  • Not a big deal if that folding Galaxy device still has a crippled OS that can only run a zillion Mickey Mouse apps. I want the real stuff on my pocketable mobile computer, a real OS, so only MS comes in the equation, they are at least 10 years ahead of Google and Apple on that matter.
  • Since you continue with the same fanboy pathetic attitude, and suggest others seek medical treatment, bring some proof where MS is 10 years ahead. Come on..if you can bark crap I am sure you can find some evidence to whatever you dream of.
  • Android in DEX feels like Windows 7 compared to the UWP app ecosystem. Cause no one wants to run Win32 apps on a phone, never mind many of those don’t even utilize modern Windows APIs/SDKs and are quite legacy in Design, UX, and operation. A phone trying to run Premiere Pro will throttle down and become useless. What do you expect to do on that device? Run Microsoft Office? A version that’s literally weaker than Apple’s mobile iWork apps? And for high end workloads you’re still going to be limited to Qualcomm silicon, which is much weaker than what Apple is putting in iPhones and iPads; while still having a far weaker ecosystem than both Google and Samsung. But... Xbox... right?
  • wrong. The new form factor with phone capabilities will have sufficient processing power once docked and hooked upon a large display to offer a true PC experience in terms of speed, responsiveness and capabilities. Undocked you will have a scaled down interface but still with all needed functionality. In a not too far future you will have workstation processing power on a credit card sized device so why wouldn't they be able to put that in a pocket device the size of a smartphone?
  • Unless a new device runs Android or iOS, 99% of the market won't be interested. Whatever MS may come up with (nothing has been confirmed yet) is already obsolete
  • Who said that Microsoft would focus on the consumer market? The will focus on corporate and prosumers first. Any consumer adherence would be a unexpected but welcomed side-effect but not seen as a necessity to success.
  • "Apple's new iPhone" and increasing popularity and acceptance of Surface Go creates new niches for mobile form factors that sit between iPhone and Surface Go: a family of Andromeda devices.
  • I don’t know anyone who even knows a Surface go is an actual object on this planet. You need to get off the blogs, sometimes.
  • The key word is not one Andromeda but a new family of OEM driven Andromeda devices. WoA has 3 OEMs pushing same old 2in1 form factor. Andromeda is WinCoreOS comes in 3in1: a whole new plateform for the best of the best OEMs to differentiate and stands up by winning in blue ocean strategy.
  • We could expect Lenovo 2 screens yoga C930 comes in Andromeda Form factor with telephony and always on LTE. Since yoga Andromeda is WinCoreOS instead of old Win10, we expect to see Surface hub 2 like collaboration driven UI not found in the recent release yoga C930.
  • "Apple's new iPhone" confirms it is time for Microsoft to bring out Andromeda. "Apple's new iPhone" confirms Apple is running out of creativity, growing by locking customers and forcing to pay for expansive additionals e.g. Additional Ram with no SD card support....
  • All platforms and devices are fairly stagnant; including Windows 10 and Surface. Not sure what your point is. Technology is basically waiting on other market areas (A.I., VR, etc.) and software to catch up to the hardware, at this point. It’s a lot easier to bump up the specs and put faster/better chips in the device. Also, competitors are building out their ecosystems. It isn’t just about the one smartphone device. It’s about the Smart Speaker, the Smart Watch, the Smart Appliances, the Set Too box, the Smart TV, the Fitness Trackers, Health Services, the Messaging Market, the Payments Market, and areas of media (like Music) that Microsoft has completely dropped out of. Platforms and singular flagship devices are no longer good enough. The market, and competition, is now looking way beyond that. If your smart devices do not work with Microsoft’s platform, then it significantly eroded at the platform’s viability. This ecosystem advantage is what has carried Apple and made it the first 1T company with the highest customer satisfaction. Samsung is going there, as is Google. Microsoft is very laggard, and missing key components of this. Tapping on about SD cards and RAM is worthless. 64, 256 and 512GB devices ensures no one needs them. And iOS runs fine with the RAM it has - more than fine, clearly. A nice thing about iOS is that you don’t really have to look up a spec list because you know the device will “just work, amazingly.” Also, macOS Mojave Dark Mode can really teach Microsoft a thing or two, as well as their dynamic wallpaper.
  • Apple has become a factual one trick pony (smartphones) very successful and extremely rich but entirely dependent upon the success of their smartphone division. As a shareholder with a long term vision there's for sure risk in their business model. There is nothing "amazing" about iOS whenever I use my corporate iPhone I feel catapulted back to 1992 - windows. The market is stagnant since the introduction of the iPhone, WP was a truly innovative mobile OS, but the market has chosen for iOS and Android. Microsoft has decided to bet on Azure, underlying services and OS/platform agnostic software including a zillion of corporate services b2b solutions and corporate support tools. None of this is on the radar screen but it for sure makes all that underlying (legacy) systems and intertwined subsystems work. If you look at their earnings they are also doing the right thing, and no it is not as sexy as the next permutation of the same iPhone or Android phone (bigger more processing power - same boring or dull interface) but as the inner crowd knows they are working on the real stuff....
  • Thx for your holistic comment, we need more here..
  • Next month, Microsoft will release Surface Hub2 and Surface Go with LTE. It is time to discuss "what if" there is a marriage between Surface Hub 2 friendly on the Go device smaller than Surface Go but operate in the same WinCoreOS as Surface hub 2...
  • Surface Hub 2 Go?
  • Not bad!!! Two vertical surface Go running WCOS 2020 = Surface Hub To GO
  • In 2 years from May 2016, Microsoft has changed from the enermy no 1 by retrenching Win10M to => a vehicle of change by providing a glimpse of what to come next ... disrupt soon to be obsolute ARM-based smartphone OS to ARM-based mobile desktop OS based on WinCoreOS with telephony
  • :)) your pathetic delusion is quite funny.
  • Dear mmgn "pathetic" and "delusional" are your middle names. Your only contribution to this site is.. well there is no contribution whatsoever apart from an endless stream of pointless vinegar rants against MS. So what is your background, have you been working for MS and then been fired because of your underperformance or no performance at all? Don't tell me that you stroll and troll around here with an intention to share real information or ideas. If you assume that your rants equate to "opinions" that would be uber-pathetic on your side. So either stay away here or seek medical treatment....
  • Oops, the truth hurts fanboy? If you think that opinion means being delusional and sustaining the same crap idea that everyone else is junk and MS is the best, then I would seriously think twice about who needs medical assistance. Just looking at MS's catastrophic failures and it's clear as daylight that they are unable to disrupt anything. Sorry that I cannot be the same delusional blind fanboy like you and enjoy to simply make fun of your pink pony dreams.
  • How can you hurt with empty thoughts? There is about 171k English words, you only seem to master "crap, fanboy, delusional, catastrophic, failure, junk" . So enlighten me, what is your contribution to mankind? What have you accomplished, which software have you developed? what is the market cap of the company that you own? And how does it compare to MS? so please I will be happy to listen but you will need to bring real arguments not the same old vinegar barking about how bad MS is doing (wake-up call: they are doing extremely well)
  • U are obviously new here, are u capable of writing your own opinion without just repeating the typical remarks from mindless idiots
  • I, like so many others would love to see Andromeda. However like everyone else, I've had the Surface RT, almost every Lumia phone and am now in the process of selling what I would consider one of the best phones ever made: the 950 xl.
    I have an average android phone, LG Q6 and yes it is a good phone, no where near as good as the 950xl. But the Google App store is the killer feature tbh.
    I cannot see the Surface Andromeda ever seeing the light of day for the masses and even if it did we all know what will happen.
    Mobile carriers such as EE, Sprint, Vodafone, etc won't promote them. Their sales staff all have iPhones or Android and from experience they all encourage the public to these phones.
    The iPhone, I personally think is nothing special and hideously overpriced for what it is.
    Microsoft is unable to advertise and market to save itself and has a death wish when it comes to the mobile phone market. I've had MS based phones with fingerprint recognition, iris recognition, all before Android and Apple but the marketing from Samsung and Apple would have you think this is new technology, never before seen, etc, etc. But this appeals to so many sheep
    MS has had some amazing products, but failed to deliver time after time and unfortunately will probably continue to do so.
    Yes I would love to see the Andromeda but without a decent App Store, connectivity to devices (Alexa).
    Instead of telling the world about what amazing products you have that will arrive in x yrs time, say they're available NOW just like Apple and Samsung rather than giving the competition time to take on MS ideas.
    Overall, I think we could all rant for hours on this topic, but will anyone at MS pay attention? Probably not....
  • Surface Andy is not a phone! Not comparable with iPhone or aPhones...
  • Correct, those are two products that actually exist.
  • As do Surface
  • Why are we pretending Nutella has any vision for anything that is not (1) Enterprise focused that takes little to no effort, has small risk and thus hugely profitable or (2) some feel good nonsense for 0.04% of the population that will never sell because he has way too much empathy to act like an actual cutthroat business General?
  • I wish the tech press would stop having a collective wet dream over this pie in the sky concept. Microsoft has demonstrated no ability whatsoever to release a product like this and carry it to the end zone for a 7-pointer. Their typical, "build it and they will come" approach won't work.
  • The short answer is no. Mobile devices are all about ecosystems. Microsoft has no consumer ecosystem except Minecraft and Xbox. It has destroyed it's consumer offering and talks vaguely about consumer productivity. On the business side, a closely aligned offering to Office 365 could be a good thing. Cortana, from a "retail" consumer perspective, is also on it's way out. In fact, with Apple having a small PC market share, being a player in mobile, not competing with Microsoft in the enterprise, there is a good argument to point Microsoft customers to Apple for consumer/mobile offerings. Google is much more a Microsoft competitor.
  • https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WUL7q8eyig8#
    Substitute surface phone for TV show. I mean, it's been yeeeaaars of the same same stuff, I don't know how anyone can have the continued patience...
    Whatever makes you happy I guess.
  • I'm pretty sure even Mr Fantastic is reading this and thinking, "damn, that's quite a stretch."
  • Just because Apple blew it with their latest iphones, you think anyone would rush to buy another junk ms mobile product? :))) How delusional can you be seriously? The phone that is not a phone, that has no apps, a mediocre JUNK OS and a more imbecile ecosystem behind: the new andromeda :))) lol, be serious...
  • just read a story about how Apple really hurt women with their new phones being bigger than ever for smaller hands and their new watch looking too big on slim wristed people. why doesn't Apple like their women customers?
  • When did they stop calling it a horseless carriage? Andromeda is not a mobile phone though you will be able to make calls with it. How are so many of you not seeing where Microsoft is going? Yes, MS made mobile phones that were brilliant, but too late to the game, and suffered from lack of focus by MS. Andromeda has been years in development as far as concepts go. In the last couple of years the technological bricks are being laid: e-sims, Windows on ARM, 5G, up and coming Qualcomm processors. Andromeda is only the beginning of the next big thing. It's not a mobile phone. Start thinking long term, and how personal computing continues to morph. Stop calling it a horseless carriage.
  • They are going nowhere! Think long term?:)) With Microsoon is kinda' hard to do so when they tend to abandon stuff. There is nothing about Andromeda that will make anyone but desperate fans to buy it. It will have nothing but a mediocre buggy OS, no mobile apps and in continuum mode a terrible performance. Bark all you want..or Roar :)) in your case, nothing's gonna change the reality, that this device is gonna be DOA because of, well, why does the world need another mobile device..like that imbecile CEO used to say.
  • Nobody is desperate here, but I am confident you did not take your medication today. Look in the mirror, why do you continue to stroll and troll on this site? We get-it, you hate MS. Good for you now piss-off and leave this site to the adults. Thanks and good-bye.
  • I am so sorry u sound as u had a difficult childhood growing up - desperate for attention, pls go somewhere else to play.. We are adults here...
  • You live in a bleak future, Chicken Little.
  • Not gonna buy another windows phone or mobile thing. Last time I forked out around $600 for my pretty decent Lumia 950 XL phone I burnt my hands. Win 10 mobile got cancelled way too fast. I will use my Samsung galaxy S8 for some time and if I need another phone in the future it will also be some Samsung phone. Sorry but windows phone is sadly dead and that is pretty much it. Android is alive and evolving.