Skip to main content

AT&T removed Qi wireless charging in the Lumia 1520 to make room for PMA

We recently reported on AT&T's launch page for the Nokia Lumia 1520 and how built-in wireless charging was absent. We noted how this decision would have not been to save cost or a few milometers on the device, but possibly affected by AT&T's involvement with Qi rival PMA (Power Matters Alliance). The company appears to have opted for wireless charging shells instead.

While the PMA group itself sounds like a group of superheroes from a Duracell advertisement, it's saddening to see the US mobile operator go down the route of removing the established Qi standard. Especially since it's the standard Nokia has adopted. Here's what Don Mooers, Director of Device Product Marketing at AT&T had to say in an email response to a Windows Phone Central reader:

"In an effort to move toward making this a reality for consumers worldwide, we’ve placed our support for the public ecosystem roll out led by Power Matters Alliance (PMA). The PMA continues to expand membership and is building a strong ecosystem for wireless charging. The PMA solution is already installed at leading coffee shops, airports, stadiums, restaurants, gyms and more, which enables customers to wirelessly charge their phone while on the go."

Lumia 1520 Battery

The AT&T Lumia 1520 product page

That's essentially the situation wrapped up in a nutshell. AT&T removed the built-in Qi wireless charging in favour of PMA with optional accessories. AT&T does note that they're working with device suppliers to embed PMA capabilities into the hardware beginning in 2014, but until then you'll be stuck with a PMA solution should you pick up a Lumia 1520 on AT&T.

So what does this mean for consumers? Qi and PMA will continue to battle it out and compete for world dominance. Until then, consumers will be stuck in the middle deciding which bandwagon they'd like to hop onto. Both continue to drum up support for either side of the fence. Think VHS versus Betamax all over again.

Head on over to our forum to join in the discussion. Thanks, darth_furious, for the heads up!

Rich Edmonds is a word conjurer at Windows Central, covering everything related to Windows, gaming, and hardware. He's been involved in technology for more than a decade and knows a thing or two about the magic inside a device chassis. You can follow him over on Twitter at @RichEdmonds.

345 Comments
  • BS! I imagine that AT&T is in talks with Apple and Apple is planning on using PMA. Also, what's their excuse for downgrading to 16gb? To save on the weight of the phone?
  • I can't imagine that Apple will go with an actual standard... typically they would "invent" their own to lock you into their hardware.
  • ^This!
  • Just makes me so angry. They are crippling something good on purpose. Politics have no place in the tech industry.
  • I totally agree with you. My recommendation is to let it flop... no one should buy this phone from AT&T. 
    then maybe nokia and microsoft will chose better partners or have stricter rules regarding AT&T leaving the features the phone has.
    I am so pissed that if i would get this phone from at&t it would not be able to fully utilize all its capabilities 
  • ^^ 100% with you on this. They broke the standard, I'm certainly not going to get a phone where I have to pitch my wireless charger. Also, 16Gb is too small, 32gb should be a MINIMUM. Att should be worried about releasing gdr 3 and 8.1, not this " power conservation wireless something" crap.
  • I dont even know how to respond to this comment, its so full of fail...
  • You don't have to respond if its just to condemn a old comment. Was just frustrated knowing Att would be the last to update, but switching standards is not great considering most (maybe one PMA) plates I've seen use Qi.
  • I love that at&t is trying to avoid selling a product that is already in use by multiple manufacturers on multiple platforms because they got in bed with a competing standard that is almost vaporware at this point. How do cell companies avoid the evil eye of antitrust??
  • With 1/2 the storage removed and wireless charging ripped out as far as I'm concerned the Lumia 1520 has been cancelled for the US market. The next thing to be cancelled will be my contract with AT&T. AT&T has been a terrible partner. They've locked up every flagship Nokia exclusive, delayed OS updates or prevented them from being released and done such a poor job selling Windows Phones in stores and on phone that Verizon is already the top Windows Phone carrier in the US. If any carrier wants to release the real Lumia 1520 or something equal to it they will get my money and a new 2 year contract. Shame that once again Windows Phone chance of success in the US has been torpedoed by AT&T.
  • All of these kind of antics by ATT are why I left them a couple of months ago and went back to Verizon. I had been with Verizon since I first got a cell phone and always had good experiences with their customer service and their cell signal coverage is hands down better than everyone else. ATT drove the nail in their own coffin as far as me ever considering coming back to them in the future by not pro-rating my final bill. Verizon did this without me asking on my final bill when I switched to ATT, but when I switched back to Verizon I had gone 7 days into a new month and was responsible for paying for a full month. 
    ATT is 100% focused on profits and 0% focused on customer service and it reflects in all of their decisions/policies.
  • The problem is, I don't like what Verizon does to the Nokia phones either.  No colors, and they make them more angular and ugly in my opinion.  And of course they then stick a HUGE awful looking Verizon check mark on there... the worst looking logo in history.
     
    I will say their service was definitely better for me, and I don't feel like I'm saving any money at AT&T. 
  • Dont forget that Verizon also removes features from WP8. I was with them for a few weeks, long enough to notice that they removed group messaging and visual voicemail integration. The visual voicemail they want you to download their own shitty app and pay a large fee to use it. To me it is more important that I can use a phone purchased directly from the manufacturer and not ruined by the cell provider. Remember a phone purchased directly from Nokia with Qi will work at AT&T but not on Verizon.
  • Absolutely correct. I can buy an international version of most phones and use them on AT&T. If I could buy one and use it on Verizon they would still charge me an extra $25 month versus AT&T on a data plan. Left Verizon and not looking back.
  • well said totally agree. 
  • Unfortunately AT&T has only 16Gb of internl memory.Its not a problem because it has a microSD card slot.But wireless charging feature is missing. I saw some dots on this pic ,it should be having WC http://goo.gl/kF8w1y
  • It's still a problem because you can't put maps, apps or app data on the storage device. If MS changed THIS, it would make my wife's 8S a totally new phone.
     
    Come on, MS. Just a little code tweak. Not hard.
  • Not this time. I'm pretty sure they'll go PMA. AT&T is just giving them a hand by getting the foundation set early, therefore getting any kickbacks this industry can offer due to the volume of units that use PMA with them.
  • Apple doesn't always invent their own. They will buy something or implement and idea and pretend it's their own.
  • That's probably why he put quotation marks around "invent."
  • Yup, you caught me!
  • I remember watching a video things that people think apple invented, and every single thing for traced back to someone else. So apple really doesn't invent anything
  • +1520
  • Choosing the best standard shouldn't be a Mobile-Phone Service Provider's business. Qi/PMA are nothing but a chip that goes inside the devices/smartphones, so sorting out which is the BEST is a process that is better suited for DEVICE/Smartphone makers than the CEO of AT&T. For better or worse, AT&T has just killed Qi-Wireless standard as we know it, and here is why: AT&T not only is the most dominant GSM Mobile Service Provider in the US, it is the second largest Mobile-Phone service provider in US, just behind Verizon. The pending merger with the Leap/Cricket Wireless, should make AT&T ever closer to becoming the largest M.Phone Provider in US, surpassing 100 Million subscribers. Furthermore, AT&T is almost always the first to launch new Smartphones into the market and some reason that is unknown to me; if a Smartphone is successful with AT&T, it also becomes successful with other carriers. Therefore, NO Smartphone/Device maker can afford not appeasing AT&T's demands. So, it is not a cost effective for Nokia or Samsung to continue making (if they still are?) a same smartphone model with PMA just for AT&T and then one with Qi for T-Mobile; Nokia somewhat tried that with its new Lumia 1520 - and - now, Nokia has changed its mind rather quickly. Nokia's global online is no-longer showing the Wireless Charger capability of its Lumia1520 global-version. In order to see the original hardware specification of Lumia 1520 (global version) with Wireless Charger which Nokia decided to delete, search "Lumia 1520" in www.archive.org (it might be too late, but try it). However, Phone/device makers always want ways to reduce the final cost of their smartphone/device after the engineering, product testing and later supporting it. Now, the war of standards (Qi vs. PMA), for the Smartphone/Device makers it is no longer about choosing the superior standard, it is just about the bottom-line $$$/FINAL COST, ---and between the Qi and PMA, it is about; if you KNOW someone in the higher-ups, son, you are in!!! Due to the AT&T's anti Qi-Wireless and paternal love for PMA standard (AT&T might have already notified their device/smartphone makers about the AT&T's PMA only policy), we should see more PMA products in the CES 2014 Las Vegas, NV JANUARY 7-10. - I will be there... In the meantime if you don't like what AT&T has done (Qi vs. PMA) sign the following petition or create a new one from the scratch - You will have my support :-) Remember, Freedom of Speech -- After all, this U.S.A - GB!!! http://www.change.org/petition... via change.org
  • They will change thier stance when the iPhone 6s begins supporting Qi or any other stupid Apple propietary BS!
  • Lol people always finding ways to blame Apple
  • Lol but can you really blame them?
  • It's an educated guess when you look at their market share and power they have over the carrier. Apple gets to call the shots and AT&T has to follow suit. Look at the bloatware on apple, android, WP and blackberry and tell me Apple doesn't have their hand in carrier politics.
  • If you ask me, a 1520 without wireless charging and 16GB of storage should make it an entirely different device. Can't they just call the neutered AT&T version of the 1520 the 1521 or something like that?
  • I think 1519 would be more appropriate....
  • You beat me to it!
  • Let's call it the AT&T Lumia 1420.  It's definitely not a true 1520, but better (and a lot more expensive) than a 1320. The bad part is that Nokia has let AT&T now blocked the real 1520 from the entire U.S. market.  So Nokia goes into this years holiday season battle without their flagship phone in the US, nice.   I have a Lumia 920 with AT&T, and yes I bought QI chargers from them, so I'm getting it twice from my buddies at AT&T.  I guess this is their definition of "loving customers".  I'd probably use a different term, but pretty mucht he same thing.   Nokia Keeps Making a Bad Bet on AT&T: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2426085,00.asp
     
  • Apple will only do this by putting in a protected chip to make sure only their double-price chargers cam be used. Just like their Lightnin cables.
  • Will an unlocked version of the 1520 work on, T Mobile US? 3g, 4g and there LTE?
  • If Rogers gets one, then its unlocked version will
  • That's what I'm going to do. Hopefully it's the full international version. I just looked on their website and there is no info on it so far. Screw ATT. I will probably still use their service because a get a major discount because of where I work, but I don't have to buy it from them. Besides, depending on how much either one is sold for it may cheaper to by it from Rogers due of the exchange rate.
  • Crossing my fingers Rogers gets this phone... We need options like this in Canada!
  • if history repeats itself, then unlocked version will be showing up at expansys-usa.com, similar to how you can get an unlocked 1020/925/etc now. I'm going to wait for that one, since I really am tired of ATT's BS.
  • I agree with this, but what annoys me is that you then end up paying the subsidy to AT&T for a phone you're not buying from them.  I very much like the way T-Mobile have gone where the phone purchase has been separated out from the contract, but AT&T's version (as expected) just screws you over even more and isn't what it claims to be.  I hate AT&T.  The only reason I'm with them is because my company gets 17% discount - It's Bitter-sweet (shimmer, haha)
  • I have att, because I'm grandfathered into an unlimited data plan, and we have a 17% corporate discount. I'm going to be switching to T-Mobile because they offer a cheaper unlimited data plan with 2.5gb of tethering before any corporate discount. And free international roaming( I live in Seattle, so going to Canada makes this a useful feature). Basically, cost wise I have no reason to stay with att.
  • You could get your discounted phone from them anyway and sell it to offset the cost of the unlocked phone you prefer.
  • People could use AT&T's GoPhone prepaid brand. You get LTE for significantly lower. For example, for $60/mo you can get unlimited calling, texting and 2GB data. The best thing is that the tax is only 50 cents more, not $10 more like on contract plans.
  • Or Straight talk or AIO or Net10.  They all sell sims that use AT&T towers for a nice price.
  • Will an unlocked version purchased from expansys.com work on ATT, including tethering?
  • It would be nice to know that customers in the US can buy phones and use it on every carrier like we can here in Belgium. 
     
    Very sad especcially those ugly logo's ...
  • Lol I know right (Dutch)
  • Yeah, luckilly ... To bad Proximus, Mobistar and Base doesn't offer cheap 4G-options right now :( only 40+ Euro's per month, too expensive for me ...
  • It's more than sad.
    Luckily the only logo on my 1020 is NOKIA :)
  • Its really sad that the US user are having this problem, compare in Asia in which we can get it as what Nokia presented it.
  • Yeah i'm happy that we also get how Nokia presented it, very happy for that !
  • You can, but it costs .99 cents per min for calling, too expensive unless traveling abroad.
  • Lolll way tooooooo expensive !! 
  • And thats why AT&T is not a good partner for Nokia. Wonder when they will ever realise !
  • Exactly. Is not like AT&T has to spend $ on R&D or manufacture wireless chargers. They're just helping Windows phones less attractive by not having wire charging built in and in pretty sure that magically Apple will use PMA
  • I don't even understand why would AT&T have a word on the specifications of the phone. Nokia should sell it to them and that's it. Now there is 1520 with wireless charging and others doesnt have it. 
    Why can't USA telecomunication companies be like every other company in the world ? They always have to have special phones for them, special specifications.. Such a mess.
  • Ever wonder why Sony smartphone chose to stay away from us market?
  • Exactly, the Nokia stock is already going down because investors know that units will no be sold in high #'s due to the missing built in wireless. Nokia should include a free wireless charger to give AT&T the finger.
  • Does this mean the AT&T 1520 wireless charging won't work with my existing charging pads for my 920 and 1020?
  • It should still be ok
  • So you want to go and buy something with your hard earned money that is just OK. that is why AT&T gets away with things like this... We as consumers accept the watered down crap they give us then justify it as ok... I think we should demand the most for our money when we buy a product and not always accept what they think they should give us...
  • I don't think he meant he was OK with it, just that the existing wireless charger should still work...
  • you are right... sorry... i am just a little charged 
  • Hahaha, need a snickers?
  • Not if ATT provides a PMA standard charging cover for it. The Nokia chargers that we have now are the QI standard. Hopefully Nokia will offer one of their own like they did for the 925 and 1020.
  • That's the thing... It doesn't sound like they will even have a pma option for the 1520. They just removed Qi to block further adoption of a competing standard. Sure, they'll sell it to you separately for another $50... But they know almost nobody will pay that. Assholes.
  • It means that 1st your phone will not wireless charge at all and second that if wireless charging will ever be world wide acceppted you can be sure that your old charging pads either work or if not. if they work not due to AT&Ts help
  • It means that wireless chaging is not built into the ATT 1520.  If you want to use your existing charging pads on your 1520, you will need to buy an external snap on plate to add that function.
  • It sounds like the QI shell will work fine.  It appears they are working on having a PMA shell as well, although not sure about that.
  • Actually, I just went to the AT&T store today to purchase a wireless charging case for my Lumia 925. I came home, and realized that it was not Qi!! So it wouldn’t work with my old wireless charger I had left over from my 920.  I went back to the store, and it turns out that ALL of their wireless cases are PMA! They then tried to upsell me one of their own wireless chargers that support PMA! Not only did I spend $50 on a wireless charging case BECAUSE they forced Nokia to get rid of Qi, but I ALSO have to purchase a new charger. This is ridiculous.
  • The headline makes it sound like they added something in exchange for removing Qi. They did not. This is just us getting screwed over politics. Welcome to America. Bastards. I am planning on potentially moving my three family accounts at the end of my contract if they don't stop this nonsense.
  • I feel you. If our operators did such business over here we'd have riots in the streets.
  • America is too civilized for that. We bitch on the internet. Lolzz!
  • Oh don't get me wrong, by rioting I mean drinking tea and playing cricket :-)
  • Lol
  • You mean like they did in london 3 years ago :) 
  • Ah, no that's a common misconception. See, those rioters were actually complaining they couldn't get a spot on Jeremy Kyle! :-)
  • Lol
  • xD
  • I think being too lazy is more accurate than being too civilized. There are so many things we don't like that is being done to us; we just don't bother to do anything about it.
  • "planning on potentially", "at the end of my contract", huh? Strong words there, fella. I'm sure AT&T is shaking in their boots. If you even remember why you were pissed off when that time rolls around.
  • I wasn't planning on purchasing this phone anyway.  I still have a year left on contract, and it's just too damn big.  I want whatever follows in the 1020's footsteps.  But if it doesn't have built-in wireless charging, 32GB+, and SD card due to AT&T then I won't be renewing my contract  when the time comes.  Wouldn't make a lot of sense for me to declare now that I won't, would it?  A lot can change in a year.  And that would also be why I stated "if they don't stop this nonsense".
     
    I just don't like the precident being set here.
     
    But thanks for making snap judgements with no information and being a jerk and all.
  • The title makes it seem like PMA is built-in and Qi is optional. But it was a political decision by AT&T to "go with PMA."
  • That's what I was trying to say... I think the title of the article is very misleading... sounds like they removed Qi to make PHYSICAL space in the phone and put PMA charging in there. Very odd choice of title.
  • Disappointing, but there's always a way around obstacles....
  • Exactly the alternative is get the phone unlocked with everything originally included. It my not be able to apply to everyone but for the ones that can. I assume they will.
  • I don't understand why carriers in the US have so much power compared to anywhere else in the world.
  • Money.
  • Money for whom?
  • Exactly - how did they get in the position to command so much power & control?
  • I had a look on Yahoo, if you mean market-capitalization, then:
    Telstra - TLS: 62.95B
    SingTel - SGT: 50.18B
    Deutsche  (T-Mo): 49.15B
    Voda: 180.95B
    Vz: 144.50B
    ATT: 183.92B
    Telefonica: 80.10B
    So if the rest of the world have similar market cap, how come the competition landscape is different? Also, the market-cap is only one measure, but if you look at earnings ... it's even more of a level playing field.
  • It's more because the subsidies wireless carriers give to customers so that we're not paying $699 for the newest phone. Carriers are hellbent on not becoming dumbpipes and will pull these stunts to trap customers into no-win sitatutions. If you want the phone for $500 less & want to support your favorite OEM/ecosystem, then you'll buy it; but if you don't, or you buy it yourself unlocked, then we'll claim it's not selling/popular so we won't sell it anymore.
  • I understand it from that point of view, but the fact that you are forced to enter into a contract for me seems rather ridiculous. I mean, they can price it such that it makes more financial sense to enter into contract with them, but if you have no option to buy unfettered, unadulted phone outright ... I mean, if you wanted a 32Gb with Qi built in 1520 in the USA, it's just not possible right? Not even if you're willing to pay for it. It's this lack of option that hurts the consumer. It's anti-competitive.
  • I agree, but it always seems like these carriers are in collusion (although to public evidence exist) to keep these lack of options in place. It's possible to get a 32GB with Qi from places like Expansys, but again, there aren't many who are going to pony up $699, even if they can afford it AND you may not be able to take advantage of AT&T's LTE bands.
  • That doesn't make sense. In Europe, you would still get the phone at the $200-$250 price if it's on contract like here in the US.
  • Because the consumers got hooked on subsidized phones.  No one wants to pay full price for a phone.  
  • Money spent to place their minions on Capitol Hill, supposedly acting as " People representatives" /s......
  • You have to ask yourself also, how the NSA still exist and continue to do what they do despite all those leaks.
  • Same can be said for banks, pharmaceutical companies.....
  • Because the most powerful ones can hold a phone maker hostage (potentially make the phone flop) if they aren't No.1 in US. Its unbelievable and idiotic. Att stripping datasense after moths for gdr 2, still exclusive for 1520, and now they have stripped it to 16 gb and no built in WC, while collaborating with the enemy. Unreal.
  • One of the MANY reasons AT&T will lose me as a customer in the beginning part of next year.
  • And they couldn't care less. Because WP customers will leave, they'll claim WP is not selling and therefore, they don't need to carry the newest phones. It's a no win for us. I remember a time when the carriers would at least have the illusion of serving their customers...
  • At least att will stop hogging Nokia high end phones
  • Well, after next year, they'll technically be 'Microsoft' brand phones, not Nokia....as soon as the buy-out deal is completed at the beginning of next year.
  • Can those carriers just fucking stop messing with devices. They should just fucking sell them.
  • That's a future these carriers will make sure will never happen. They will fight tooth and nail with all of their money, legal powers and lobbyist to not be relegated to dumb pipes. They have too much money in this game and they fear that turning into a more European style carrier will eat away at their profits.
  • Nailed it. They control the Politicians, and thereby, the ecosystem. See it as a glaring example of how effectively $ has taken control over the US 'democracy'.
  • You're more correct than you know. YouTube or Netflix:
    Zeitgeist: The Movie (first release)
    Zeitgeist: Addendum (second release)
    Zeitgeist: Moving Forward (latest release) Watch them all, or at least one of them.
  • Is there any phone that supports PMA out of the box at the moment?
  • As far as I know, no. I could be wrong, tho. Bit there are plenty of phones out there that have QI built in. It seems like AT&T is making sure no one puts wireless charging built in, while Verizon is making sure that they do. Carriers have too much say in phone manufacturing. They shouldn't have any at all. They're salesmen, not engineers.
  • "they're salesmen, not engineers" How simply put. Can't agree more
  • Why do people insist on staying with their carriers? Is it because they have a monopoly in your area in terms of coverage / service? I really don't understand. If they have a monopoly, why isn't there any competition? Is the barrier of entry for other carriers so high in those areas?
  • For me at least, the only other option with good coverage around me is Verizon, and I would have no problem switching if it wasnt a CDMA network and I could use unlocked ATT/GSM phones on it. But because its very limited, and Tmobile in my area sucks Im sorta stuck.
     
    Looks like Im buying the international version... Hmm Whats the eta for that?
  • So why wouldn't T Mobile want to improve their coaverage in that area so they have more customers? That's the bit I don't understand.
  • Unlike in Europe, there are parts of the US with very few people in them (e.g., a little place called Nebraska where I am from). At one time these places were only served by a single, small carrier (again, e.g., in Nebraska where that carrier was called AllTel). What has happened is these smaller carriers and their coverage areas were purchased by a larger carrier (usually Verizon) so that only that larger carrier has "good" coverage in the state. I no longer live there and am on ATT, but my parents still live there. If you look at a map of Nebraska, there are 2 cities (or large towns if you will). In Lincoln and Omaha and along interstate highways, most carriers have decent coverage. My parents live 15 miles outside of Lincoln, and I get 0 (zero) bars of service for all carriers except Verizon. The rest of the state is much the same.
    Nebraska is just an example. Kansas, South Dakota, North Dakota, Wyoming, Montana, Colorado, Nevada, Utah, etc., etc. are much the same. Even some states in the relatively populous "East" and "South East" like Kentucky and Tennessee have terrible coverage for large stretches.
  • My point being that for T Mobile there is little benefit to building out massive infrastructure to reach these people. All together it is a lot of customers, but we're talking about an area of land roughly the size of Europe as a whole.
  • So basically, you have pretty much zero competition, shit coverage outside of large cities, you pay 4x what we do in europe and the carriers dick around with the specifications of the hardware before you get a chance to use it.
     
    HA! HA! HA! It sounds really crap. Your government needs to step in and regulate. The market isn't working for you there. Unbridled market forces isn't always the correct way forward and regulation doesn't have to mean Marxism. The problem is your 'Public Servants'; they serve big business, not the public. Governments allowed global corporations to make massive profits thinking they'd be able to take a cut in taxes, but those corporations just hived it all off into off-shore accounts. This is why we have a global fuel crisis and inflation out-stripping wage increases too. It's the same in nearly every 'democracy' these days. We did it to ourselves.
  • Yup. In the US, the Supreme Court created out of thin air the law that money=speech, and that Corporations=Citizens. Add to that that all US Politicians have to spend about half of their time raising $ in order to get (re)elected, and that's really all you need to know to understand why Corporations can do whatever they want here and screw the Public's interest.
  • Corporations are just figments of legal imagination. A designtion for a group of people, that own shares in a business.
     
    I don't believe Corporations are Citizens, and should have protected free speech. They don't even exist, just try to touch one.  You have to touch a building, or an employee, but you can't touch a corporation.  Maybe the closest you can get is touching the paperwork that describes them.
     
    That said too, they should not pay taxes either.  They have no production, can make no money, and it is impossible for them to pay taxes.  People, and only ever people, pay taxes.  If you try and charge taxes to a corporation (literally a legal figment), either the share holders pay the taxes (people), or the people that buy their services pay the taxes (people).  Why?  Because something that doesn't exist can't pay taxes.
     
    Additionally, then I'm off my soapbox, corporations can't be evil, greedy, good, bad or indifferent.  Again, they are a legal figment.  Their leaders can be, but to say Big Oil is greedy is like saying Santa is good.  Both are impossible. (I hope that didn't burst anyones bubble).
     
    We should all stop trying to anthropomorphize corporations.
     
    Finally, and lastly, AT&T is evil, greedy, and sucks.  :)
  • That, and the way a certain party completely unnecessarily shutdown our government, this back and fourth has been going for years. Some high fives even. The government is not going to step in. no reply necessary
  • Depending on how rural the area is, it may not make fiscal sense to invest in new cell towers there. Companies like AT&T and Verizon already have large infrastructure investments in certain areas that pre-date cell phone usage.
  • Geography and cost.  The US is a huge nation. From your posts, it appears you are in the UK.  Look at the size of the US vs the UK.
     
     
     If you're a carrier and you don't have the existing infrastructure to cover a large geographic area, the cost of entry is prohibitive.  Verizon & AT&T have existing infrastructures and lots of money to expand them based off their historical businesses.  TMobile does not.  TMo focuses on covering as many actual people though by improving their infrastructure in large urban areas.  If you live in one of these areas, for the most part, TMo is great.  If you don't, you probably aren't going to be using TMo any time soon.
  • WYSIWYG editor is being wacky, here's the link I tried to put in original reply
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-EjBzwFddmUk/ThND7soIfMI/AAAAAAAAALQ/FfBm2IrkAr...
  • Yes, I am in the UK, but Australia has a similar geographic distribution profile as the US, if not more sparse, yet it doesn't suffer the same issue, at least not to the same extent. I mean, in Australia, Telstra is equivalent to ATT, they have the best coverage, both in terms of speed and area, especially in rural areas. But, they don't have the same amount of power ATT has in the US.
    I mean, yes, it cost a lot to put up infrustructure in areas where there might not be much demand, but if you amortized the cost including urban areas,
  • ^^this. Also VZW nickel and dimes you to a ridiculous degree.
  • So does AT&T. More so in some areas (text messaging for instance). They're both absurdly expensive with shitty customer service. If Sprint picked up some good hardware, I'd be back there in a second. They're service is equally just as good as VZ and AT&T in my area (Central New Jersey), they just have low end phones.
  • This, my only other option is Verizon or Sprint. I already left Verizon once, I'm not planning on going back. T-Mobile would be great except I would have 2g service pretty much everywhere I frequent( rural South Jersey). So sprint would be a good option, but they have pretty much the worst hardware, and they are CDMA so it isn't like I could bring an unlocked GSM phone. So AT&T it is, at least for the forseeable future.
  • Verizon's 4GLTE network is GSM based, my friend ;)
  • I guess I should have been more specific with the "But its very limited" that was refering to their LTE because It has not reached my area yet, except where I work, but a cell phone that only works is few places around me is useless. :/
  • Well if 4g service is spotty, then ur screwed. Besides...i believe that's just data. Voice and text ate still cdma.
  • I work for AT&T so I get a great discount
  • I wouldn't say that out loud in these here parts mister. It could get 'ya kilt!
  • Haha! I don't work on the wireless side so I have nothing to do with this lol
  • Hahahaha! Let's see some ID partner.
  • Sneak in, burn att 1520 version blueprint, replace with Nokia version. Thx in advance!
  • The general rule is the more expensive the carrier, the better coverage you get. But the US is such a big country that you have to evaluate coverage where you live and where you travel to and see which carrier works best for you. For most people, this is either Verizon or AT&T. However, those people are primarily stay in one area and T-Mobile happens to have good coverage there, they can save some money by going with T-Mobile. T-Mobile has been adding a significant amount of LTE coverage, city by city, but it's just not in their budget to expand as much as AT&T and Verizon. The other major thing is spectrum and the number of towers. Verizon and AT&T has far more than the smaller carriers and they aren't usually willing to sell them. In some places, especially rural areas, T-Mobile roams on AT&Ts network but those cities that T-Mobile already has coverage, this is usually not the case.
    Another thing to consider is if T-Mobile did manage to grab more spectrum and had to raise prices to expand, a lot of people on a low budget would move to prepaid options on AT&T (or Aio Wireless) or other carriers.
  • @the person from Australia, Australia may have the same kind of profile, but its much smaller. So again, its easier to cover the whole area with fewer towers, which is less expensive. Ironically, Verizon's coverage is much better for me than AT&T. Their LTE is insanely better than everyone else combined. I pretty much have LTE everywhere I go unless I'm driving through country in Texas. AT&T's 3G hspa is better, but you have so much LTE coverage that it doesn't matter. The only thing I'm hoping is that windows phone becomes more easily available for us in the next year. As far as service goes though, Verizon is best for me. And customer service in my town at both carriers tends to be great, so I generally just go in to the store to get help or warranty.
  • AT&T works best for me. In my area, the coverage is equivalent to Verizon and the LTE speeds are slightly faster on AT&T, plus AT&T has a better Windows Phone selection. However, in many areas 50 miles away from my city, for example, AT&T may have good HSPA coverage but lacks LTE while Verizon has LTE almost everywhere now.
    People in other countries assume AT&T has the best coverage though. It does in some areas and is tied with Verizon on others, but overall in the country, Verizon has more extensive coverage than AT&T, especially in rural areas.
  • This is RIDICULOUS. Nokia needs to get out of bed with AT&T and offer more devices on T-Mobile or give us more opportunities for unlocked, unbranded devices.
  • T-mobile doesn't have the money or coverage. The reason that Nokia is with AT&T is that it was the least expensive, or the most profitable, when they had to choose one carrier. I'm seriously hoping that Microsoft's influence (read: money) will help with wider carrier availability.
  • Nokia has developed battered wife syndrome. She knows it should leave but just can't. Who else would want her?
  • Preach it! i am right there with you.
  • Wow Nokia this Alliance with AT&T is possibly the worst decision you have ever made and that includes symbian^3. AT&T molesting great phones and stalling updates since 1998
  • Eh, there is truth in PMA being much more widely adopted in the installed charger realm, where Qi seems to be bigger for handsets themselves. Nokia's gotten Qi charging in a few places, but most of the announcements I see seem to be PMA-driven.
    The sooner a standard is adopted, the better. Hopefully this is a move in that direction.
  • And which device supports PMA out of the box that their would be a reason to use PMA?
  • None, as far as I know. But you could buy a case/back. They crazy thing is, if there aren't any PMA phones, but there are dozens of QI,, the places installing these stations would us QI. I don't get it.
  • lmao exactly! you see how dumb that cycle is lol most OEM's are using Qi, most locations are deploying PMA... who's going to use those stations if they have Qi... the cycle of dumbasses lol Just like the article states, we're back to VHS vs. Betamax and until one wins, we the consumers, all lose -_-
  • Sorry, this story sounds like BS.  Surprised WPC would post this. 
     
    First, who is "Don Moorers".   I Binged him and there is no such person with a LinkedIn account or any search results with that name from that location for Microsoft.  There is a Don Moorers who is a politician in the Maryland area, but that was about it.    Even if I Bing/Google my name I will find several hits.   So that's red flag #1
     
    Second, why in the world would "Don" reveal such a backroom strategy like that to a customer who was sending a complaint letter.  I think, if AT&T wanted to admit such a position, they would do it in a more formal way.   I suppose Don could just be an employee who went rogue and decided to talk straight to a total stranger via email, but highly unlikely.   Flag #2
     
    Third, why in the world would AT&T even take such a position.  Why would they care what inductive power strategy was adopted.  Why would they want to alienate one of the top 3 phone manufacturers in the world, soon to be part of Microsoft.  Why?    Flag #3
     
    I am still pretty sure they are stripping it out for the same reasons they are stripping out RAM.  Cost.  Unless there is a conspiracy to cause a colapse of memory chip manufacturers too :)
     
     
  • Why they care about what standard wins? because they are member of the PMA and not of the QI Wireless alliance.. thats why. they pump the money into PMA and support Qi afterwards.. i dont think so
  • You are really bad at internet searching. #1 I found news about him albiet working for a different department in ATT dated back in 2009. #2 There is a Don Mooers in LinkedIn listed under Tele Comm. #3 Vadofone got a 32G 925 and everyone else got the 16G. Its called a "Deal".
  • Thanks for clarifying.  I still don't see who you are referencing on LinkedIn but I'll take your word for it.
     
    I still find it hard to believe this info would come out this way at this time.  It's just my opinion, but I'm sure all the angry attacks will come questiioning my inteligence, and mothers character. :)
     
  • Did you use Bing or Google?
  • Bing    I use it by choice, not because I am trying to support Microsoft (or get my Bing points) but because I do a lot of microsoft technical searches related to SQL Server, Azure, Visual Studio, etc.  Understandably Bing is far superior in the finds on those subjects.   But I wouldn't doubt if Google would have been better in this case.  Should have tried that also.  Regardless, not that big of a deal.  I'll take Huime's word for it that this "Don" guy exists
  • Why choose either when you can choose both! http://www.bingiton.com/
  • Haha, not a bad idea :)   Bing's search challenge page could indeed be used the way you suggest.  It would get annoying if you wanted to do multiple searches in a row, but none the less, its a valid suggestion!
  • Do you know how to use a search engine? That's a serious question.
  • OK here it comes. Thanks Rich for questioning my intelligence. Yes, I am a moron who barely can figure out how to put on my pants in the morning, find the front door, and type a name into a search box. You are correct. have a nice day.
  • Lol, I'm just messing, dude. It's Friday, we all have one of those days when the mind just wants to shut down ;-)
  • Thanks Rich.  We're cool.  It's just some people on here are always ready to go to the mats over things.  We're just talking off the top of our heads giving random thoughts.   Lets everyone remember that.
  • This is how adults play. Good on 'ya lads!
  • Lol, my favorite kind of sarcasm.
  • Lol
  • This is ridiculous. I have 3 Nokia qi chargers at home and office. Planning to get the car holder installed in my car when available. Luckily I am not in the states, but I am afraid this is the sign of things to come... Mess of a fight where consumers get screwed.
  • Well good that AT&T is just a US Carrier. Just hope that Nokia learned and put the Wireless charging in ALL their Phones not just the 920 so far
  • Car holder with qi is great, have two, one in car and one on wall next to bed
  • Verizon supports Qi, I would suggest as many as possible switch to them. Tmo unfortunately seems to have no interest in WP so they're not a viable option. Or just import a device and go prepaid. There really isn't a reason why anyone should be stuck with such a lousy carrier as at&t. Vote with your wallets and boycott the at&t 1520!
  • This. It's the only thing that matters.
  • would we need to unlock a European devise or do they come unlocked?
  • I wasn't going to get it anyway, but if they gimp the 920's successor I won't get it. I'll even switch carriers so I can have actual wireless charging, not vaporware supported by some coffeeshop chain I never go to.
  • Are those all Nokia Music pinned tiles in the picture? Looks good!
  • This sucks. Who the hell uses PMA right now?
  • Thank goodness the uk model is 32gb with the wireless charging
  • I wish there was enough choice in the marketplace for people to catch on and switch en masse away from AT&T.  We are seeing the reemergence of Bell Telephone.
  • We need to shift the power by just saying NO, and everyone move to another provider, which in turn would give them instant control of the cell industry, then we the consumers can say what we want from a provider, but since a mass movement of consumers is so unlikely due to contracts and provider hype that would be tough to do, basically give us what we want or we're outta here.....lets do it.....
  • Very disappointing. I've already invested in various Qi chargers for my 920 and 1020. Does this mean no future Qi implementation at all on any phone released on ATT? [Big sigh].
  • I hate AT&T with a passion........
  • Any chance I can get a European model and use it on AT&T network. I can't believe that they are allowed to cannibalize the hardware.
  • Im looking to go the same route.  I cant believe they would drop the devices internal storage to 16gb and I use my wireless changing matt quiet frequently and am upset about at&t changing over to pma.
  • PMA should give up, Qi has way more market presence internationally. PMA is fighting a losing battle.
  • Doesn't Samsung use Qi?!?! How can they possibly think a different standard has a chance? I believe the new Nexus 7 uses Qi as well. Between Google and Samsung, that is a good chunk of the android market.
  • Yup, LG, Samsung, HTC, Nokia & Sony are all apart of the WPC which push Qi BUT...and this is a big BUT...LG, Samsung, HTC & Sony are ALSO apart of the PMA. The split here is that Verizon is with the WPC but AT&T is with the PMA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_Power_Consortium#Wireless_Power_Co...
    http://www.powermatters.org/members?sort=link_name&cf29=&cf33=&cf30=&lin...
  • The ONLY reason I stay with ATT is that for whatever reason Verizon has almost no signal where my work location is in Boston. This crap they keep pulling is just killing these great Nokia phones. 16GB, are u kidding me? This phone better be no more than $199 on contract or they are going to have a hard time selling this over the Note 3. Actually $149 would be a better price so we can say it ks half the cost of the Note 3. I truly have you ATT!
  • So why is it that there are no alternatives to ATT? As in, why do they have a monopoly in coverage?
  • For any Windows Phone on AT&T, all you have to do is wait 1-2 months, and it is almost free. Just don't be a part of the I have to get it day 1, and you will get an amazing deal. Everyone wants the cameras on the Nokia phones, but nobody wants the lack of apps that comes with it.
    I'm on my 3rd windows phone (a Lumia 1020 because of the camera), but I carry an HTC One around because I truly prefer the way the apps run (the selection of good apps is key too) and how much better of a job it does on my WiFi than my Lumia...an HTC One based windows phone would be just about the best thing ever.
    I too was totally excited about the 1520 until I saw how AT&T gimped it. I guess they did me a favor. I'll just stick to my 1020/HTC One wonder twin combo!
  • Anyone know how bulky these charging shells are?
  • It will obviously add bulk.
  • Government is supposed to work the same way, give us what we want or You're outta there
  • Lolzz! You're kidding yourself. I haven't seen any of those government cronies leave office since I was born. They bitch about those government officials but never vote them out or they vote in a clone. Like ATT customers, they never leave despite the fact.
  • I tried, but was only allowed one vote per office...
  • Will there be two different charging shells offered:  one for Qi and one for PMA?
  • Here in Uk never heard of PMA. Never heard of Qi before Nokia. Just use qi because I got a free charger with my phone.
  • America sounds like an awesome place.
  • Wish I had money to move to Europe.
  • So does Qi work with pma charging at all? Or can pma cases work with my current Nokia charger? Why is pma so much better over Qi which has been great so far? I'm mad that it doesn't have wireless charging, but it isn't a deal breaker. They should have made the device have it built in for day one! Maybe amazon will sell an unbranded phone that you can then tie to att if you need/want their service.
  • They aren't compatible.
    PMA devices more-or-less don't really exist.  It's a standard with almost no products using it.  It seems more like a bunch of companies trying to get together to create a brand new standard rather than adopt the one that the most consumers are actually using.
    Qi has been available, at least as an option, if not included out of the box, on many high end phones for at least a couple of years.  As far as I know PMA hasn't actually been included in any phones to date.  So at this point it is more of a theoretical standard rather than a practical one.
    My guess is that PMA is gaining partners because industry heavyweight Duracell is behind it.  Qi, on the other hand, is backed by a much smaller organization.  So even though Qi had appeared to have emerged as a common standard that was being used by real devices by real consumers, Duracell has somehow managed to convince manufacturers and carriers that their standard is better even though nobody is actually using it.
  • Forget AT&T. Verizon all the way once my contract is up. Too slow on updates, too many dead zones, no NFL mobile
  • The problem with Verizon is that you can't use that phone on a GSM network which is lets face it the whole Europe uses. So no Verizon for me.
  • Seems to me PMA has already won...the fact that AT&T are pushing for it here, means it will be the new standard
  • How do you figure? I don't know anybody who uses PMA. I mean when the PowerMat first came out yrs ago, sure. But nobody since. Nobody wants those ugly shells on their phone. But I know plenty of people (Wp and Android) who use QI. I'm gonna have to disagree.
  • I don't get it. How in the world ATT can control what components phone manufacturers can use in the phone. It is like your ISP is saying they won't provide service if your PC does have ram from Samsung. BS, this is bullying and no one can do anything in here???
    Can someone explain if this is even legal what ATT is doing?
  • +1...agreed
  • It should be on MS/Nokia to offer an alternative. Sell the proper uncrippled devices through the MS stores and act as a 3rd party dealer that signs people up to At&t... but also offering the same contractual discounts. I think they do this now... but you don't get the discounts and have to pay full price... which not everyone is willing to do. They need to figure out a way to give that subsidy through their stores.
  • Sure it's legal! Nokia is still making it, just a variant. Look at all the horrid android phone from Verizon!
  • You analogy doesn't quite work. ISPs don't buy thousands of Samsung PCs then sell them to you at a discount. Like it or not, AT&T has input because they are Nokia's customers, not you directly. They are going to put in the largest order of Lumia 1520s and subsidize it for you so you're not paying $699 or $799 when it first comes out. I don't agree with it, but that's how it is.
  • That is ridiculous. What a terrible move by att...... I'm glad to have my good old 920, with update 3 software and built in wireless charging. Who wants to add on a charging shell to their phone? It adds thickness, weight and detracts from the phones original good looks. Bad move att!
  • ^This
  •  
    At least they could make the battery removable and have the battery cover be the part that can be optionally replaced for wireless charging.  I miss removable batteries...
  • +1 Absolutely
  • Will the global version work with att lte bands? I am pissed and can't even consider the 1520 without wireless charge inside. Most annoying thing about my 1020 is the stupid shell I gotta have on it.
  • I guess I won't be buying it then. Unless there's an unlock version that'll work with at&t.
  • I will never buy another phone that requires a charging jacket for wireless charging. I'm the sort of person that never uses cases. They destroy the beauty and feel of a phone. If you are prone to dropping things, then a jacket is just fine for you.
    I have the charging shell for my 1020 and hate the way the phone feels with this jacket on it. If there had been a charging sticker option like how they do for the Galaxy phones, then that would be fine because it is added internally to to the phone.
    But what kind of respect does a company like AT&T have for the environment when people like me already have 5 wireless charging pads laying around the house for our various Qi charging phones and then they want to force some other standard. Either put the "standard" into the phone or leave Nokia's design alone.
    It makes it impossible for companies like Nokia to even build an ecosystem of accessories because they designed them assuming wireless charging baked into the phone and now I can't use them and charge my phone wirelessly at the same time.
    I also seem to have more trouble with my wireless charging on my 1020 than I did my 920 that had it baked in.
  • Its the latest VHS v BetaMax battle
  • No, it's HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray all over again.
  • yep!  I didn't see your comment before I posted mine.
  • Ohh! Good one. I forgot about that actually until last week when I saw a xbox360 hd-DVD drive in a pawn shop lol
  • I gotta say tho, that wasn't much of a battle. VHS and Betamax duked it out for years.
  • That's a good one!
  • Horrible. *shakes head in shame* AT&T is honestly trying their hardest to get me to move my 5 line family plan elsewhere. However, they seem to be getting away with murder with these ridiculous exclusive deals as other carriers don't have the phones we want. I'm going to blame Nokia equally here for allowing this bullshit to happen. They need to start offering their phones on all carriers or their going to start losing sales as I'm not supporting this nonsense.
  • More like bluray vs hd-dvd
  • Glad my employer is moving to Verizon, screw AT&T.
  • smh.  HDDVD vs Blu-ray all over again.  No one really bought into either until there was a clear 'winner'.
     
    PMA vs Qi stands to repeat this and will cripple adoption.  Imagine someone having a PMA device (which is unicorn right now) and going into Corporate Coffee Cafe and feeling like a a-hole because the Cafe has Qi.
    Imagine someone buying a new car with a PMA charger but has a Qi phone.  How pissed would they be?
     
    Unless someone decides to be able to make a single charger that could have both standards... if that's possible, then maybe not so dire.
  • This isn't new, people. This is the same reason we (AT&T users for one) can't use the NFC feature (wallet) on our phones for mobile payments. There are competing techs and the carriers won't allow use of the tech already available because it's not the method they have hitched their wagons too. It's all about the money and everybody wants a cut.
  • Well, no 1520 for me. I'll buy off contract from someone else. Fuck u ATT.
  • Lol little harsh there huh? It's called corporate America! Go buy a shit bloated Verizon device instead! I can't believe how upset people are getting
  • Same here, will be buying unlocked from wherever the hell, but not fking atnt
  • Are we able to buy unlocked and unbranded phone in order to get the charging feature?
  • As if the wireless charging standards weren't already too many, and just when the Qi platform was seemingly emerging victorious with handsets like the Lumia 920 and Galaxy S4 support, now we have a new alliance - the Power Matters Alliance (PMA). This one is promising to be big, as it just got joined by none other than Samsung, but also HTC and LG, in addition to the previous members like BlackBerry, ZTE, Huawei and the other industry stalwarts like Google, AT&T, Duracell and so on. Devices with the tech are expected to hit shelves next year, and some charging stations, like the Starbucks pilot program, are already in place, while the Powerkiss places in Europe are switching from Qi to the PMA standard. Oh, well, as long as this is the last standard they can agree with, and things are kept interoperable, we are fine with the switcheroo. AT&T is pledging PMA devices support for 2014, meaning it will be nudging makers to integrate the standard in their handsets offered to the carrier, so this thing has all the prerequisites to take off in a big way. This kinda explains it!
  • Thanks AT&T I DONT WANT A CASE ON MY PHONE!!!!!!! Pissed me off with the 1020 not having wireless charging built in and now the 1520 as well unless I use some POS CASE!!!
  • Not to defend AT&T by any stretch of the imagination. However, Qi is far from being an accepted standard. Some big players backed out of the standard a few years back and set the push for a single standard back. In fact, if you compare the two PMA has more members. But oddly, there are companies like HTC, that are part of both. Perhaps not coincidentally, Verizon is a member of Qi. The FCC is behind PMA, so the whole thing already stinks right there. And given AT&T's propensity for going with terrible implementations, I woudn't be surprised to see that anything produced by the PMA consortium turns out to be garbage. What's really frustrating is that Microsoft and Nokia tolerate this crap from a "premier" partner.
  • More like HD-DVD bs Blu-ray lol
    In all seriousness who cares! It seems a majority of the public could care less about the wireless charging! Everyone or everything I read people say it doesn't charge all the way through or you have to lay the phone a certain way. Plus with that battery it shouldn't be a huge issue! My LG g2 can lost a whole day on heavy use and that's android! People relax.... My o e gripe is us carriers like att delaying updates! Ugh!
  • I don't see the HDDVD vs. Bluray analogy.  However, if a company touts wireless charging as a main feature only to remove it for later iterations then I'll wait until it comes back.  It sounds like you've never used it so I suppose you wouldn't understand what you are speaking of.  I have wireless charging and I find it to be fantastic, convenient, and have not experienced any of the issues that the people you've read about have had.
    And you have a gripe of AT&T delaying updates eventhough you know you'll never get them but have no gripe with a hardware feature being removed?
  • No I haven't used it... No reason for it to be honest... I have a three outlet USB port in my cube charges my phones anywhere from 15 to 10 min.... My car same thing.... I was going to try it with the 1020 but heard too many negatives about it! If I had the 920 I may try it but again I think people are overreacting that's all... If you love it... Great! I'm sorry att is screwing everyone around but that's life. We have choices, if anything the 16gb sorta ticks me off! But again I'll live! Maybe once everyone sees the phone people's minds will change who knows.... I'm more pissed nokia couldn't make a 5" or 5"2 device!
  • I hear you.  That's what I am waiting for from Nokia to be honest.  I want a successor to the 920.  The phablets don't appeal to me.  I am guessing MS is holding out until they've taken over the devices division from Nokia.  Then we'll see the main-market 5" devices that appeal to a larger audience - hopefully with an upgraded camera than the 920 without a hump and wireless charging.
  • Sorry for the blu ray comparison lol just saw how many said that too! But is there any word an unlocked model with LTE will be available here in the states?
  • F... at&t THEY SUCK!!!
    I would recommend that NO ONE BUYS THIS PHONE FROM THEM! This will also teach nokia not to partner with such and @$$hole company.
    at&t is not a true partner when will companies like nokia and microsoft realize this???
    This company water down their products and sell them to a few gullible people. Microsoft and Nokia WAKE UP!!!
    Do you ever pull your collective heads out of your asses for a moment to see that your products are not selling as well. HEY IDIOTS, this is the reason why... AT&T screws up your product by taking out things that people want and leaves the S#!t that is not unique... and give you things that everybody has and nobody wants. Things thats so F...ing yesterday.
    My recomendation is DO NOT BUY THIS PHONE FROM AT&T... let it flop, until they leave the features in the phone that most people want... 
    We as consumers need to dictate this... not f...ing AT&f...ing T
  • Here's the flipside, and there's precident for this. Suppose no one buys the 1520 from AT&T. AT&T then comes out and declares it a massive failure and they see no reason to push any more WP8 devices at this time. Adoption of WP8 plummets because people don't want to leave AT&T for Verizon or T-Mo AND they've wanted this new Samsung Galaxy thingy (their words) they've seen on the TV anyway.
     
    That's most likely the future. The precident is the Sprint HTC 7 Pro disaster. Sprint gets HTC to create a subpar device and when very few buy it, Sprint declares WP to be a failure and wait 3 years before they get a new one in the Ativ Neo.
     
    AT&T has us by the balls.
  • Or, people such as myself, leave AT&T and purchase a WP through another carrier or unlocked.  AT&T see's the growth of the platform outside of their prickish hands and has a "Damn, we messed that up" scenario.  
  • Glad the country I live in doesn't get a half baked 1520, such a shame the same phones cant be released in the US as the rest of the word.
  • This might be the straw that breaks the camels back for me. Have had family plans with ATT since before they were Cingular wireless but to see them cannibalizing devices based on things they want to do in the future is complete bs as far as I am concerned. My contract is not up for about another 10 months but wife's is soon and we will be making a switch at that time to a new provider f*** you very much ATT...
  • This thing better be priced right!
  • it may be possible install qi wireless charging into the device by taking it apart. if all the hardware except the coil is there I don't see why this wouldn't work...
  • Ugh, I always hate these kinds of things...which is why sometimes it's better to avoid the whole dance altogether until it gets sorted. Attached to an idea just to watch it die...no thank you. =[
  • Nice, AT&T. Nice...*rolls eyes
  • Yeah... And Beta lost even though it was better....
  • Which standard is better? Does ATT have any PMA devices yet?
  • AT&T You suck!!  I thought Qi was the more popular of the 2 standards.  I guess with AT&T behind PMA they stand to get some kind of a push.  WOW!  Too bad the international version would be priced out of this world.
  • God. I hate the things at&t does
  • Will wait on the international version. Ass clowns!
  • My question is, why did AT&T allow (AND SELL!) the 920 WITH the power pad and it's Qi wireless charging? They joined the PMA around the same time they released the 920 but they had to have known they were joining the PMA while they were signing contracts to sell the 920. What happened between then and now that they now won't support any Qi devices? What if Samsung decides to go with Qi for the GS5 & Note 4? What if LG goes with Qi for their G3? What does AT&T do if that happens?
  • Obvious question.  Since the charging case AT&T is referring to for the 1520 is for a different standard than Qi.  Will there even be a wireless charging case that works for Qi users?  Why would Nokia even produce one if it is only going to disrupt its relationship with AT&T.  At this point anyone who intends to use Qi charging for their phones should probably forget about the 1520 as anything but a USB charging phone.  Get the case if you spend a lot of time in Starbucks but stop worrying about how a charging case will look on your phone otherwise because there probably won't be a Qi case anyway.
  • Nokia should label the ATT 1520 as a Lumia 1519 as a public service
  • Reason #143 why I would never switch from Verizon to AT&T, and reason number #2453 why Nokia needs to end this ridulous exclusivity relationship with AT&T.  The AT&T stink is likely to rub off on Nokia at some point.  With the Microsoft purchase of Nokia, maybe the exclusivity deal (which was almost certainly done for the money) will no longer be necessary.
  • Translation: They wanted another accessory to sell you. Thanks, dicks!
  • I'm not even from the US, but this is maddening! And what the fuck is PMA?!
  • The really sad thing is that AT&T made this new phone incompatible with other Nokia accessories designed for the phone. Really, really dumb.
    For now, I'm sticking with my 920. I've got wireless charging pads on my desk at work and by my bedside, and I've got a wireless charging stand hooked up to my car. (Which, by the way, is really sweet to hop in the car, drop the car in the holder, let it connect to the stereo via Bluetooth, stream audio books during my commute, offer great up-to-date GPS, etc. -- all without any wires dangling about! Woot!)
    Oh, AT&T. If you keep this up, you'll make me choose between my sweet "grandfathered" data plan or jumping ship to get the phones that I want without your interference.
  • I don't understand how Att is being allowed to change a product they didn't create. Why didn't this phone come to T-mobile.
  • This would actually make the 1520 on att lighter wouldnt it ? Also possibly thinner?
  • Who are they to change the build of a product? if I want something Nokia has made and they offer it with Qi good for me. Att should just be a pass through.
    ATT YOU SUCK!!!!!!!!!!
  • Since the 1520 is so big they could implement both standards in and we could use both wherever we go !
  • How do contact att for a complaint? looking on thier web site and of course its just like a run around.
  • Tweet the hell out of them at @ATT. This way the whole world can see your complaint too.
  • So, there IS confirmation of the wireless feature removal, but not of the 16Gb storage reduction? That would be good news, if the phone was 32Gb. I can live with a Qi shell, but not 16 gigs. Not in 2013...
  • Why? When you have Skydrive cloud storage (7 GB, and 25 GB for legacy windows phone owners), and 64GB expandable (which at the end of the day relatively speaking, is not that much $$). Apple requires you spend $100 to go from 16 to 32 and and another $100 from 32 to 64 (so $200 to go from 16 to 64), and when you can expand 64GB to 80GB total with a micro sD card for around $50.
  • Except you're limited in what you can put on the SD card. It is not the same as having the full internal memory.
  • North American cariers are such boneheads. Oh I wish some euro carriers would come in and wipe them all off the map.
  • They're losing me as a customer as a result of never ending BS and hostility toward their loyal customers who happen to be on the Windows Phone platform.
  • Just purchased another L920 off eBay because of the lack of built in wireless charging in 1520.  Done with ATT, one year left on contract, then going prepaid.  I will remember, been think this for a long time the hold up with the Amber update, etc.  Please Nokia/Microsoft produce and sell a Surface phone off contract.
  • Ah, AT&T...f*****g over customers just the way they like for more than a century...
  • Wouldn't it be possible to remove AT&T housing and install housing from the international version?
  • The decisions AT$T make ate constantly against MS and NOKIAs vision. I left AT&T a year ago because this is obvious. Microsoft really needs to get on board with Verizon to save MS time with this one-sided collaboration.
  • Read: With PMA you have yet another accessory that can be hocked at our stores if you want access to wireless charging awesomeness.
     
    We can't sell you more crap with Qi because you don't actually have to by something else to make wireless charging work. We didn't like that idea so we changed it to sell you more crap.
  • And the same can also be said for the reduced storage on the device. By cutting the 1520 to 16gb vs. 32gb it gives the consumer another reason to by an SD card via the AT&T store. Granted, most folks are smart enough to go to Amazon and get one on the cheap. However, a large portion of the public don't know that you can do this and will gleefully pay extra markup for the covenience of buying an SD card to upgrade the crippled storage on the AT&T 1520.
     
  • While I can live without wireless charging built in, the fact that AT&T cut memory in half poses much more of a problem to me. Yes, you can add an SD card, but that does not mean you can install apps on it... I plan on using a potential 1520 for my business and I will use tons of apps on it. Maybe I will not bust the 16 GB, but since I am not planning to switch my phone very year, I might. And this makes it a potential non starter.
  • Thanks AT&T. You made my decision to buy this phone or not so much easier.
  • Wait, so does this mean all the standard chargers with Qi support. Especially the great ones from Nokia won't charge this phone?
  • That's exactly what it means.
  • AT&T never ceases to surprise me.  How can one company be so evil?
  • Carriers shouldn't be allowed to change hard of a device. Its bad enough they can restrict and remove stock software features.
  • Sigh.  As a former gadget junkie, I'll have to say that this really does make the decision to abandon my perfectly functional 920 for an 1520 much harder of a decision.  The Qi is remarkably convenient NOW, not tomorrow.  I haven't even seen any public notifications posted anywhere supporting one standard over another.  So, frankly, all I care about is what I get to do at home and in my car.  Right now, the answer for 1520 seems is a "shell" which adds weight and girth - totally defeating the whole point of the aesthetic I'd opt for.  Anyhow, I guess I'm really disappointed.  Neverind the decision to reduce the amount of installed memory.
  • My thoughts exactly, and if this becomes a trend it may drive me away from wp all together as I cannot afford a phone for full price, I want to upgrade to a phone that is on par and upgrading areas, not actually downgrading some features
  • Even with a charging plate, you only need to have it when charging.  For normal use, it is useless, so take it off and not have to worry about added girth.
  • Perhaps i'm cynical, but in this case appropriately so.
     
    My interpretation of this is that somewhere inside AT&T the following conversation occurred:
    Person 1:  "If we take this out of the phone, we can sell 2 different $50 accessories to give people choice.  Choice is good, right? (evil laughter)."
    Darth Person 2: "Consumers should accept this.  They already accept our use of the Death Star as our logo - we've warned them."
     
  • More like Duracell v. Energizer. Maybe we'll have battery wars on cable soon!
  • Man am I glad i live in Finland, my 4g@50Mbps costs me 15€/month and I don't have a gimped phone. Feel sorry to you guys. :)
  • If AT&T is serious about this. They should at least give the Qi Shell for free. That way, they can still support their PAM using anothing shell but don't remove features form the phone.
     
    Personally, I think this is bad for them as they are pushing away a lot of people who are upgrading from other Nokia phones!
  • ^This
  • I hope apple chooses qi. This, even though we hate it will be the deciding factor. Although I bet its absent from their next phone, and the next phone S after that.
  • Why would we hate it? We would instantly get thousands of accessories.
  • Yes to accessories, hate it that apple is the deciding factor. What if they go PMA.
  • I fail to understand why so many people are complaining about the lack of  on board Qi charging (buy the shell then), only 16GB of internal storage, and a "laughable only" 20 MP camera.   I have only found the Qi charging to be a cool feature, but not necessary or a convenience, as you still have to plug in the wireless charging pad into a wall just like you plug your normal charger into the wall.   With regards to 16 GB, there is reason to complain as there is expandable card support (64 GB) and the cloud (7 GB); an extra 71 GB.    I have owned 4 Windows phones and do not find those supposed controversial missing things to be a big deal.    For the 20 MP camera, 2x lossless zoom, and Nokia imaging HW and SW expertise (which is still far superior to everyone else in the world), Nokia is and will still be the benchmark upon which phone cameras are compared to.
    I just think some people like to have excuses to complain.   
  • Do you know how stupid you sound in this! This is corporate war! Where you don't care, we as consumers do care. Get off your at&t lovefest and join us. A 16 Gb. hard drive will kill this device, if the wireless charger hasn't killed it already! Nuff' said!
  • There has been absolutely no statement, anywhere, from any source that a wireless charging cover that works with the Qi standard will ever be made available for the Nokia 1520.  At this point it appears that the ONLY wireless shell on the horizon is a PMA shell.  Please let me know if I have missed something. 
    There is no way most of us will ever scrap our current wireless charging investment to satisfy AT&T.  Nokia customers bought those chargers with the expectation that they would work on future generations of Nokia phones.  Nokia would be wise to issue a Qi shell for the 1520 even if it doesn't make independent business sense because the alternative would be a betrayal of the customer base they have cultivated for their Lumia phones.  Unfortunately, I don't trust anyone involved in this at this point.  The week of the big Nokia event is ending and we are still waiting for some straight answers.
  • Yeah my bad on the Qi shell, but I do know that some kind of external shell will be available for wireless charging.    I don't really care any which way.
  • The shell sold for the 925 use the Qi standard.  You would think Nokia could just crank those out to fit the 1520.  I imagine they will produce both, allowing customers to choose which ever standard they prefer.  In the long run, this may be the best option from a design standpoint.  If PMA truly becomes ubiquitous here in the states, we buy PMA shells.  If traveling to Europe and Qi is the most common there, we pick up a Qi shell and swap them out.
    Just give us our missing 16GB back AT&T, you rat bastards.
  • I left at$t long time ago for their business practices, bleeding their customers for everything they can think off.
  • I don't care when the phone is ready now and should keep the qi in it. Then in 2014 if need be use the pma. I'm not buying a device that needs a shell to wirelessly charge with. Screw you att. Besides I'm sure qi is in about as many places.
  • This is so messed up, what has a carrier to do with the phone specs...
    One should be able to buy phones in any eletronics store, unlocked and unbranded and the go to the carrier for a line or just buy a SIM card in the first newsstand one stubles upon. Or use the SIM from the old phone, logically.
    That's what I do here in Brasil. But Nokia keeps delaying everything here. I'm still waiting to be able to buy a yellow 1020...
  • I'm just sooo utterly disgusted! I truly had my heart set on this device until AT&T cannibalized it. My wife and I both have the 920 and between the 2 of us have 5 Qi chargers... Ughgh!
  • Now there is absolutely no chance I'll get the AT&T 1520... good thing the L920 is still a solid phone... if only Microsoft would fix GDR3 and my call quality issues...
  • This explains the Lumia 1020 not having Qi
  • Why did they let the 920 have it then? Shame on Nokia for being bullied by such a corporate monster.
  • Shame on the corporate monster for bullying.
  • Yes, the L920 got away.
  • I think this is a very good time for TMobile to swing a lot of Att customers to their side. I believe there will be a variant of the 1520 that will cover all LTE bands in the US. Nokia needs to make that variant widely available and at a good price point. Tmo then needs to push their "Bring your own phone" plan with an attractive data plan such as their $50 unlimited call, text, and web plan.
    You buy ur phone sim free, take it to Tmo, get the $10 nanosim kit, and choose ur data plan. You have all the features of the phone and you get rid of ATT.
    I know that this is not as simple as it sounds because of difference of call quality and range of service between Tmo and ATT.
    If this happens, its going to be a slap in the face to Att and Nokia might just offer more devices through Tmo in the future.
  • Screw you AT&T for neutering a great device.
  • ...and nothing we can do even if we cooperate? 
  • ...and nothing we can do even if we cooperate? 
  • Nokia is also to blame. They shouldn't have agreed to allow AT&T to do this.
  • I suppose, but they aren't Apple, so they don't really have a lot of leverage here. 
  • From http://voltnow.com/qi-vs-pma-vs-a4wp.html
    August 24, 2013
     
    "Each of these standards is approaching adoption of their format differently. Qi has been utilizing a push strategy and trying to get as many manufacturers to adopt their standard. Simply getting numerous devices in the market place will leader to greater adoption of the standard. They have been quite successful at this approach compared to the other two. If we had to place a bet on a single standard winning, we would choose Qi at this stage.
     
    PMA on the other hand has been focusing on branding and developing a pull strategy by trying to build momentum through consumers. They recently gained significant traction when they partnered with Starbucks on launching a test for PMA chargers in numerous stores. With virtually no devices actually developed that will work on PMA chargers, we're not sure how successful this will be. There are some limited offerings of cell phone cases that work with PMA. In addition, most major manufacturers such as Samsung have joined all the standards boards to cover themselves. They have yet to launch product offering with PMA though. Starbucks also serves on the board so this relationship should likely grow.
     
    We haven't ruled out A4WP yet but they are well behind Qi and PMA in terms of adoption. Intel recently joined which gives the organization body significant credibility and greater resources."
  • WOW ATT are even bigger idiots than I though, and that is really hard to achieve.
    On the other hand Nokia has lost my respect for selling out to a fucking carrier like this. Elop should be ashamed for allowing someone to cripple his devices like this.
     
  • But PMA doesn't sound cool or catchy The ONLY reason why Apple products sell is because of the cool, catchy, simplistic names they give them.
  • OK - so I'm just going to ask the obvious question here.  Why can't Nokia just pump out a version of the 1520 with PMA recharging built in for AT&T.  Why are they locked into Qi?  They should offer whichever one a carrier wants.
    And then stick the other 16GB back in the phone.  That's the change that has me really pissed.
  • Creating a phone requires month of design, pototyping, and menafacturing. They can't just will into existance. Also, to date, there is no real support for PMA in terms of accessories and other phones. Why would they move from Qi which they have experience in creating and have a bunch of accessories already rolled out to PAM? It just does not make sense for Nokia to jump ships now. The best they can do now is to create their own shell with PAM if they want to. But integration takes time and money.
    I think the 16GB issue is all about money. Maybe they couldn't sell them to AT&T at the right price (which translates to profits) so they both agreed to go with 16GB instead of 32GB. They both get more profit and consumers get screwed over! Perfect scenario?
     
       
  • Come on AT&T. Wake up and listen to your consumers. At the very least dont remove standard features. Instead add features that you support on top of the standard. Your approach will hurt you in the long run.
  • I don't think you can have both standards in one phone. They will interfere with each other. On the other hand, not having anything means that you can create shells for both standards. Personally, just give me Qi for my already available accessories.
  • Unfortunately ATT is hellbent on using these types of anti-competive tactics. All we can really do is try to regulate them, or at least threaten them with regulation that would prevent it. That seems to be the only thing that gets their attention these days. 
     
    There isn't much Nokia or MS can do at this time. Nokia and MS really have to establish more marketshare so they are no longer at the mercy of ATT ruining their flagship devices. The other option would be to go the Nexus Phone route. But even then, ATT could and probably would try to punish them for it.
  • http://www.nokiapoweruser.com/2013/10/23/nokia-developer-att-listings-gi...
    This may help as I mentioned in my previous comment.
  • Good catch!  This will help a lot, especially if T-Mobile introduces it with the full 32 GB of memory.  That would be really smart if they did.  AT&T customers who try out T-Mobile with unlocked AT&T phones will then have an incentive to get a T-Mobile phone with unique features like wifi calling and data sense.  Right now the 925 isn't enough of an upgrade over the unlocked 920, especially with wifi calling available on the budget 521.  It also fits in with T-Mobile's recently announced tablet strategy to have a premier windows phone phablet in their lineup.  If T-Mobile can get its network fully built it is the natural carrier to drain customers from AT&T because its network uses essentially the same phones.  I will definitely wait to see what T-Mobile comes out with now. 
  • Well, that made my mind up. Not going to buy it....ATT, why?....just why. Was really looking forward to this phone, my Lumia 920 just upgraded.
  • I know.. This is a huge letdown.. What a slap in the face... I feel like we waited forever to finally see this awesome phone, and at&t ruined it.. How can Nokia stand buy a company that pisses its fans off❓❓❓..
  • ^+920
    This carrier segregation is only detrimental to consumers. Here in Brasil we have been in Europe like freedom for like 5 to 10 years, everybody is GSM and most phones sold are pays as you go, so no difference in the prices for branded vs unbranded handsets.
  • Total BS. ATT is just saving their own money.
  • Now if this phone was on Verizon, it would probably be built it, right?
    Isn't Verizon with like Qi instead of PMA.
    Huh, only if Verizon carried WPs like ATT does.
  • I would actually switch to Verizon if they had the 1520 stock version... Let's wait, and see if they get a version..
  • I'm so pissed off about this❕ AT&T just turned what would've been the absolute perfect device into less.. I mean this seriously pisses me off.. So, basically if I stay with att my current charging pad is trash❔ It really pisses me off because we waited for months to see the most powerful WP just to find out that att would fuck with it, and make it less than what it could be... I'm sick of these carrier exclusives, but I don't think we can do anything about it.. If it ain't broke don't fuck with it, att❕
  • They will probably create a Qi shell for it so you can use your current charging pad (just like the Lumia 1020). However, this means that you cans use other cases on your phone if you want the wireless charging (since they are designed to be put on the phone directly).
  • No, they said they are going to only make PMA accessories.. BS❕.. I want my damn charging embedded❕❕❕❕❕❕
  • Doubt if ATT will ever make anything. They are carrier, not device manufacturer. I'm counting on Nokia to make one like the 1020 one.
     
  • Hell, maybe we can get a mod kit off eBay, and add it our damn selves...
  • Where's all those 3D printing wizards when you need them?
  • Man, I loathe AT&T
  • Great, no now my fleet of wireless chargers at home and at the office won't be usable should I decide to swap my 920 in favor of the 1520? That's just great...
  • There needs to be a law preventing all of this. Devices should be uncoupled from carriers. Would you buy a laptop that your ISP would decide what software you could run, and change up the hardware? But really, this hurts Microsoft the most. I am already disappointed by the state of WP8 in general, but there is no way I am going to "upgrade" my phone to this. Clearly AT&T has some back deal to hamper WP8. Poor support, slow update releases, removing phone features and cutting specs. But then, these Telco companies are really messed up right now. We need more regulation on them if not just breaking them up again. It's nearly a monopoly situation.
  • So it's about money. If Qi is part of the phone AT&T cannot sell a bulky charging case at astronomical markup.
  • Can we get a hashtag or something to blast att and get awareness of how unhappy we are about this.  I was going to drop 3-400 for this phone but now I will wait for maybe an unlocked version or a Surface Phone built by Nokia that carriers have no control over.
  • If ATT continues with this BS, they are going to have a lot of inventory on hand and the prices will probably drop down to $0 on contract.   I'm guessing by March 2014.  
  • Wireless charging built into the phone would be really nice to have but I can live without that if I have to. Taking the internal memory from a not overly impressive 32GB down to 16GB is disastrous. It renders the phone borderline useless for those of us who use lots of apps. I have to assume that AT&T somehow feel they have to make sure this phone won't sell. I would consider buying an unlocked phone as long as it comes with all bands and LTE.
    I've been looking forward to buying the 1520 to finally replace my outdated iPhone.My iPhone has 64GB memory and I'm almost always at about 9GB free memory so I didn't buy the 1020 because it only has 32GB memory and no SD slot.
    I usually don't get emotional about things like this but I have to admit that I'm frustrated and angry. At the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter to AT&T if some of us actually follow thru and switch carriers, even if the number was in the thousands.
    I will just wait and see how this plays out. Timing is probably not favorable and who knows what the contractual situation is but if Microsoft decided to sell the full featured version thru its store I'd buy.
  • Customers are stuck in the middle but really don't have much choice in the matter since most are locked into plans or regions that dictate their provider. This battle is being waged at an industry/carrier level and consumer have little choice in the matter. Just look at the iPhone when it launched, a much bigger selling point to many customers than wireless charging, yet even its exclusivity did little to change the landscape of the big three.
  • I have no problem with this I just wish they sold a wireless charging stand with the plate built into it.....16gb is ok because we have 64gb upgradeable sd card.
  • Lets all be honest here. Why are people staying with AT&T whatever!! if they are not happy with what they do to the phones they have exclusivity to?
    We live in a global market. You can buy the international version from Ebay.
    It is now the perfect time for a new phone company to come on the scene and clean up the market.
  • Only reason I am with them is because of grandfathered unlimited plan (even though I have to unlock devices to enable tethering).  And they are the only one that have coverage in the US for me (the places I travel).  Tmobile not a good fit for me and they treat me well ok because I ahve been with them since college (12yrs ago).  I just really really don't want to pay that much for the device when there is really no reason for me to change from my L920 except to give it to my wife and change our household ecosystem (better for me).
  • It means I'll be buying the international unlocked version and then paying an ETF fee to wave goodbye to AT&T and go right back to T-Mobile after a year with my 920.
  • I hope everyone is pummeling AT&T on Facebook and Twitter, repeatedly and often.  The more voices we have, and the louder they are, the better our chances are of getting notices.
     
    Seriously folks, hit them hard on social media, let them know you're not happy.
  • As stated we need a # or something to build up momentum on this
     
  • Get it an unlocked version and go to T-Mobile and get service from them. Why pay AT&T's ridiculous rates and play by their rules when you don't have to? Life is too short to put up with their bs.