Nokia posts somewhat disappointing Q4 2013 results, avoids revealing Lumia sales

By Rich Edmonds
last updated

Nokia releases its financial report for Q4 2013, showing a decline in Lumia sales before passing the baton to Microsoft

While both the media and consumers wait patiently for Microsoft to inevitably absorb Nokia's devices and services division, the Finnish company today published its Q4 2013 financial report. This latest report paints a rather bleak image of its Lumia family of Windows Phones. Simply put, Nokia (and Microsoft as both the operating system developer and financial partner) had a bad period to close off 2013. That said, it's not all negative and the Nokia we should see after the Microsoft deal will be a profitable company.

Unfortunately, the report doesn't share the exact number of Windows Phone units sold worldwide, joining Lumia hardware with other mobile devices sold with the Nokia brand (hello, Asha). Nokia does – however – note that smart device sales were up from the same quarter back in 2012, but suffered a fall compared to Q3 2013. Looking back at last year's Q4 report, Nokia shipped 4.4 million Lumia Windows Phones, while 8.8 million were shipped in the previous quarter of 2013. You can attempt to draw your own estimate from those two values.

How ever many Windows Phones Nokia managed to sell last quarter (we're back to Q4 2013), the company managed to more than double its results from 2012 – a positive outlook on progress made with Microsoft and its mobile platform, but this fails to mask the slight dip Nokia has experienced over the important holiday period. Fancy some figures? 2012 saw Nokia sell 13.3 million mobile devices running Windows Phone, while annual sales for 2013 would be at least 27.8 million. It's an improvement, but the division still sits as a loss and burden on Nokia as a whole.

The combined total of both feature phones and smartphones sold in 2013 plummeted, resulting in a 29 percent drop in revenue to 2.63 billion euros ($3.57 billion) compared to the previous year. It would be difficult to point the finger at just what may be the root cause of this turn of events rounding off 2013 since we're looking at both feature and smartphones. Nokia announced the Lumia 1520 and Lumia 1320, the first two phablet devices running the Windows Phone OS. Not only that, but we also saw Nokia's first Windows tablet, the Lumia 2520 hit stores.

What we can take from this report is that Microsoft has some way to go to simply maintain the growth Nokia brought to the mobile platform – 2014 will be an interesting year for Windows Phone.

Nokia

HERE, there, everywhere

Honestly, it's not all doom and gloom. As well as the "discontinued operations", how Nokia now chooses to refer to its hardware division, the company has other properties up and running. These include HERE, NSN (Nokia Solutions & Networks), as well as healthy portfolio management and Advanced Technologies (innovation and development). We're certainly going to see a different Nokia post-Microsoft acquisition, but if recent reports are anything to go by, Nokia should remain profitable with operations and licensing.

Today, the company also confirmed that an extension to a patent license has been signed with Samsung for a further five years.

NSN and HERE are both providing a solid turnaround for Nokia, leaving its handsets side of the business as the rotten apple. NSN itself achieved underlying operating profitability with a Q4 2013 non-IFRS operating margin of 11.2 percent, compared to 8.4 percent in Q3 of the same year. Nokia's HERE platform and services is where the growth is at, however. External net sales grew to 225 million euros ($306 million), an increase of 10 percent year-on-year and 28 percent sequentially. 

Looking forward, not only is Nokia working with Microsoft to further integrate its HERE services and snatch up important licensing fees, but the Finnish company has also partnered up with numerous automobile companies and manufacturers. We've covered the progress made with the likes of Continental and are excited to see just how Nokia can work with said companies to further advance the overall driving experience. While the sales of Nokia Lumia hardware certainly isn't going to turn heads, it would be wise to keep an eye on HERE, NSN and other Nokia ventures.

Check out the full report over on the Nokia website.

Update: Nokia has gone on record to confirm that 8.2 million Lumia Windows Phones were sold in Q4 2013, down from 8.8 million in Q3.

Source: Nokia

Rich Edmonds
Rich Edmonds
Senior Editor, PC Build

Rich Edmonds was formerly a Senior Editor of PC hardware at Windows Central, covering everything related to PC components and NAS. He's been involved in technology for more than a decade and knows a thing or two about the magic inside a PC chassis. You can follow him on Twitter at @RichEdmonds.

341 Comments
  • As a Windows phone fan, I quite happy about this development. Perhaps this is what Microsoft needs
    in order to realize that they're not doing something right. It's been over 2 years since 
    Windows phone had a major update ( ie. Mango). Once in a while they come up if small incremental updates 
    amidst fanfare and chest thumbing .. they need to wake up !!   
  • Amen. WP is behind and not making any progress. Not even mango was unequivocally better than NoDo and 8 was assuredly a big step backwards in many ways. MS had a great foundation two two years ago, but has let it languish. If Blue isn't an absolutely massive upgrade, I'm afraid it's curtains for WP. We shall see.
  • No. Mango was an important step forwards and so was 8.0. They haven't done enough to keep up, but to suggest that they have regressed is just stupid.
  • To be fair, in some ways they did regress with 8.0. Many of my WP7 apps wouldn't work on 8 without being updated. At least initially, I noticed more crashes. Nokia maps UI was not as good as Bing maps. Didn't Zune video work with WP7 where as Xbox video didn't work with 8? Overall I still thought 8 was a great upgrade. But it has been almost two years and no major update.
  • I see WP8.0 as more of a transition than an upgrade. 
  • There were some regressions, but it was a very important update nonetheless. Quick examples I can give: background VoIP, background navigation, new tiles, fast app resume (resume from tiles), IAPs, native code.
  • How has it almost been two years since a major update? It is nowhere near November.... Now, by the time current devices start to get WP8.1 it might be 1.75 years at that point...
    Nevertheless, I can see blaming 4th quarter Lumia sales on not launching enough new devices, with new software, around Christmas time.. I'm sure Microkia knew what they were doing, and like MS said,, once they release WP8.1 they will return back to the regular update cycle.. So, to me that sounds like we might see two major updates in 2014.. Well, that's what it sounds like, at least..
  • I agree with the idea that 4th quarter Lumia sales went down because there was zero new devices offered, and the biggest complaint for N.A. is Nokia devices are really only on one major carrier. Yes, Verizon has a nokia device which provides little to no choices if you are inside an area where Verizon or Sprint are the only networks with decent service.  I moved away from AT&T because I had way too many dead zones. Our family would have purchased a new Lumia phablet if they branched out from AT&T.  I am not alone with this and Nokia's persistance to keep devices exclusive probably hurts sales in N.A.  Four new devices in our home the last couple months and none of them Lumia.
  • Well, I suspect that once MS takes over then Lumia devices will be on every shelf... MS has a way of getting there products on every shelf.. This purchase was so that something big could happen with WP.. So that something big that hasn't yet happened with WP can finally happen.. Nokia might not have the power to do so but MS can get Lumia devices EVERYWHERE!... The same as other MS products.. A year from now it will be a whole other story..
  • The features gap between iOS 7/Kit Kat and WP8 is larger than it was between iOS 5 / Gingerbread and Mango.
  • That's not regression of the platform, that's not keeping pace.
  • Even with the missing features and apps, I still find myself switching my sim cards to my windows phones because the other platforms have too many annoyances. I have many Android, iOS and WP phones. I enjoy the beautifully intergrated simplicity, and no lags and crashes. I just hope Sony becomes a partner and introduces WP to their waterproof lineup, then I won't have to switch to Android when I need something waterproof. Love the Sony, but would love it so much more with WP.
  • MS absolutely regressed WP in many ways.  Of course, they also moved things forward.  But when I upgraded from an Arrive to an L920, I immediately noticed more things that I suddenly couldn't do than that I now could.  For example, both Zune and wireless syncing were gone.  Not to mention all the applications and Web pages that just stopped working.  Indeed, nearly all the major changes were under the hood, and all the visible changes, with the exception of the new start page, were negative ones. Now, the app situation has improved somewhat (but there are still so many missing things it is hard to imagine sticking it out with this platform) and that had largely to do with WP 8's better APIs.  So you are right, WP8 did make major strides, albeit invisible to me, the end user.  But there is sooooo much left undone it is no wonder WPs aren't selling.  It isn't the hardware, it's that the OS is simply not competitive with even lowly iOS, let alone Android.  MS needs to blow the platform wide open so that 3rd party developers can fix the holes -- there's no way MS can do it themselves.  Thus, Blue needs to majorly overhaul the front end for us users so that we get absolutely vital features (like a way to know what that toast I just missed was) and so that missing functionality can be added by 3rd parties -- like improvements to the keyboard or Internet sharing via Bluetooth (just to name a couple).
  • The big changes are not transparent to you. HERE Drive can track your location and give you instructions when in the background. You can actually get calls and IMs when Skype is in the background. Tapping the myTube tile takes you immediately to where you left off. You can see the new tile sizes and templates by pressing the Windows key. Native code means we were able to get many cross platform games.
    There were regressions, I miss Zune and wireless sync as much as anyone else. Blue needs to set many things straight for me as well, but summing up Mango or 8.0 as steps backwards is just not right.
  • How can I see the change that was made to enable HERE Drive to work in the backround?  You are making my point for me.  This was a background change to the APIs that enabled apps to use some new functionality.  Same with myTube -- it was made possible by an API change.  But upgrading to WP8 didn't suddenly make myTube better.  I had to go and download myTube. On the other hand, the new Start Screen was something visible to the user.  And it was just about the only thing of note. As I said, there are lots of things that I can now do that I couldn't do on WP7, mostly due to the improving app situation which, as I also noted, is mostly due to the improved APIs.  But the APIs still lag faaaaaaaar behind what is possible on iOS, and are simply not even in the same conversation as Android.  Android apps can do...well...anything.  And the gap is widening, not narrowing. Blue.  Must.  Be.  Huge. If the amount of "progress" made between 7.x and 8 is anything to go by, it wont be nearly huge enough. This is my worry.
  • They translate to functional benefits that you see by using the apps and features that rely on them. Sorry, you are clearly giving off the impression that such features are somehow less important to you as the end user than immediate user facing features added to the OS. This is plainly incorrect. If you want a half reasonable Skype experience, you need 8.0. That is no less important than adding a feature like text messaging drafts.
  • "They translate to functional benefits that you see by using the apps and features that rely on them." Yes.  Of course they do.  That's why I said as much.   "clearly giving off the impression" I don't think I came off that way at all.  But I will say that in the early days of WP8 (and I was a week one adopter), Skype was an even bigger disaster than it currently is (and it is still pretty horrid on WP8...much worse than on iOS or Android).  What I noticed mostly was the things that were worse about WP, and those far outnumbered the things that were better.  There was nothing to make me say, "Wow, this is so new and so great." In order to ignite sales, an early adopter of WP8.1 has to say, "Yeah, this is better.  I gotta tell my friends."  That's how sales are generated. Take, for example, the Windows Vista to 7 and 7 to 8 transitions.  As far as I can tell, while Vista was not nearly as bad an OS as it was made out to be, 7 was nevertheless better in every single way.  I cannot think of one thing I could do on Vista that I can't do just as well or better on 7.  There were zero regressions, only improvements. Now, compare that to Windows 8.  Under the hood, W8 is unequivocally superior to W7.  It is much more secure, it boots faster, it multitasks better, in manages multiple monitors with aplomb, etc.  It also has some nicer forward-facing features: the task manager is nicer, the file transfer dialog is better, etc.  But it also has a Start Screen instead of a Start Menu, which is a step backwards for users who rely mostly on the desktop, but was a tradeoff made to provide a really nice interface for those who use it on tablets.  But, for "power users" there is nothing about the tile-world that offers anything of value, since there are superior desktop versions available for almost every Windows Store App.  Thus, for some Windows 8 is great.  For others (like me) I think of it as hit and miss, with some features I like and others I dislike, and for yet others -- maybe most, I don't know -- it is viewed as mostly a step backwards. I think most of the people who fall in the latter group, once they become comfortable with tile-world popping up now and again, will find Windows 8 less and less bothersome.  But perception matters, especially early perception. So, I say again, if Microsoft wants to have any hope of salvaging WP -- which may be impossible at this point -- they are going to have to hit it out of the park with Blue...and they are going to have to do it out of the gate.  That means not just waiting for applications to come along, but to also fix core problems in the OS (WP8 simply didn't do that, focusing almost entirely on the back end).  W7 hit it out of the park by taking something that was okay (Vista) and sanding down all the rough edges into a real gem that worked as well or better than the competition at almost any task you can think of.  Many people still think that W7 is the finest PC operating system ever released by any company.  That's what Blue has to do, or, I am afraid, WP is dead. Enough already of two steps forward, one step back.  Blue must be only forward.  If I lose even one capability I currently rely on when I hit the upgrade button, that'll be it for me.  And I doubt I'll be alone.  The limitations of WP are simply too great as it is to give even an inch more.  The upgrade from WP8 to WP8.1 must be leaps and bounds bigger than the upgrade from WP7 to WP8 was, in terms of user facing features.
  • This.
  • the reboot time is much longer than mango.the Chinese input are much more lag than mango and the keyboard manage become unreasonable，the homescreen is not as smooth as mango.and the homescreen become mess.buch too busy .I can never say it become beautiful
  • While I generally believe that WP8 was a big step forward, it is indeed true that some great things were suddenly missing. The zune software was nothing short of beautiful, both in terms of functionality and syncing features. The ability to easily sync playlists back and forth was phenomenal. Now? I am essentially forced to drag and drop. It is a shame, but I like to believe that these companies are listening.
  • 2nd april come soon after jan ends. Screw Feb and March.
  • What happens on 2nd April?
  • windows phone 8.1
  • Mango was a great update ! They went to sleep afterwards. 
  • I agree.  Mango was the only upgrade that actually felt like one.  WP8 was a major dissapointment.
  • Per Engadget Nokia has gone on the record to say that it sold 8.2 million Lumia handsets in the quarter, a small dip compared to the 8.8 million sold in Q3.
  • Why is this news a surprise to everyone? It is not surprise to MSFT. This is a wake up call for MSFT enthusiasts who are eagerly and inpatient for a quick turn around. Simply put by MSFT the year that things will turn around just to be completive is 2017. That means we have to wait and see 2014, 2015, 2016, and the end of 2017. Don't go anywhere everyone. The show is just beginning. As for me I will hold my ground until 2018 and just patient wait and watch MSFT take over this market.
  • I have been using a nokia since my first device....a nokia 3220 to a nokia 7210 to a nokia e5 to a Lumia 520....i wont going nowhere...only thing I wanna see right now is high end Lumias being picked up by a network carrier...in India thats a dream but a man can dream heh
  • I'll wait. Just wake me up when it's here, lol.
  • 4 YEARS!!! 4 LONG YEARS!!!!?? I'm a hardcore MSFT fan but that's just beyond rediculous! I might as well switch to Android till MSFT gets the head out of thier ___!!! IOS? I'm not touching that one.
  • Oh wait, the only reason I never made the swtich was because every Android device has at least one major draw back I can't get over. Guess I'll just have to shut my eyes till WP9.1.
  • iOS7 is much better than anything google have come up with so far.. so you should at least give a tickle
  • IOS7 is good but Apple is just too restrictive e.g screen size, NFC, whatever users want. Android on the other hand allows for more freedom, maybe too much. And Android will evolve much faster than IOS, its execution may not always be the best though. Therefore in my book I would go Android and not IOS. But I just bought my L521 so it'll be awhile before I go Android if ever, If MSFT can just get it done already.
  • It does not mean you have to have WP only.  I have three platforms and just bought the Lumia 925 at Christmas.  It is not my daily driver but I like carrying it and the camera.  I will continue to stay interested in WP until I have all the apps I need when I travel etc.  
  • I would love to try out an Android and not have to jump ship completely. Alas my wife stands in the way of me trying out tech. Something about money and bills I dunno.
  • Amen.WP8 is a work in progress,its buggy with all the random battery drain and stuff and those who say something else should pick up a WP7 device and see for themselves. By the way,the sales numbers don`t come as a surprise to me.The momentum becoz of the L520 isn`t going to last forever.Other than the camera in the Nokias,what does WP do better in comparison to the other platforms?NOTHING.As for MSFT,they don`t seem to do anything to change things around.Even the few big app releases won`t do much.I know a lot of people who have switched back to the iPhones/androids after giving WP a go, the slow largely insignificant  updates aren`t helping either.
  • To ur comment...i can say dat I have just 100mb space left on my phone and yet..it runs smoother than an android that has gb's of space left...so thats a diff...also...nowadays I see more Lumia handsets in peoples hands than say last year...when windows phone users were very rare...so it is gaining but it needs some time...
  • so the sales should be going up,but that doesn`t seem to be what i stated in the article. About the minor lags in android,don`t keep bringing that up,pick up a Moto X when it gets released and compare.Not everyone cares about this  minor lag if they need to wait years for features or apps PERIOD
  • The key issue is that there is nothing -- not one single thing -- that WP does better than its competion.  iOS can claim rapid, easy updates that fix problems, and a melding of hardware and software that is unrivaled.  Android can claim the ability to do everything that can be done. What can WP claim?
  • The battery life on my 1020 is better than my Quantum.
  • Yep, been using a l520, l920 and l1020 so far. I don't know what they did to the last one (same battery as l920) but it definitly lasts longer !
  • I think Windows is great. But I think you're totally right. We shouldn't have to show off our new gadgets and say "we don't have this yet....but dammit, it is coming!"
  • This is still the remaining biggest issue.   Can only be helped by marketshare though... hope it'll get there.
  • Its definitely MS fault where are the basic features we have been waiting years for, its not even possible to search sms text. We need these basic functions, miracast etc are all a must.. No excuses for dragging their heels like this.
  • yes.they really need to wake up.I hate the homescreen but I still bought a lumia cause it's made by nokia and I still believe in Microsoft.but it made me disappointed time by time.and the system update is so slowly that I cannot believe it's from a company like Microsoft!things like volume control still not come.it's the basic need of an opera system.what shit are Microsoft doing?
  • Mobile has been an afterthought all along for Microsoft and continues to be at their own detriment here in 2014. Afterall, actions speak louder than words.The article headline of "somewhat" is misleading. Lumia saw 8 straight quarters of at least 20% growth then in the year's biggest critical holiday quarter Lumia numbers tanked by -7%. That's awful. And I seriously doubt Microsoft will be ready to hit the ground running when the deal closes either. It will be the typical 6-9 month lag time so by the time they announce anything any momentum they could of had using the acquisition's closing announcment will be lost.  
  • Samsung is reporting a 18% decrease in their profit for the fourth quarter of last year. So it looks like its not just Nokia that was down in sales from quarter three. I hate to say it; but good news. If they were down then its a global thing.
  • Cue nokia bashers' response in 3...2...1..
  • Wrong site for such shenanigans :P
  • How about AT$T bashers?
  • Sold!!!! Running off with tiny bit of profit! However, I will remain a supporter of Nokia. As far as investments, Blackberry, I have my eys on you hehehe!
  • Oh, come on everyone stop being melodramatic, the flagship phones were phablets, which are a niche device in the first place. Nokia needs a 920 successor to have nice sale figures. Remember, this time last year is when the 920 came out, so its been a year since an average, everyday smartphone has released.
  • I'm honestly thinking the same, release an updated 920, and sales will go right back up.
  • The problem isn't with Nokia. The problem is MSFT and their slow Windows Phone iteration. Sure Nokia could have launched a sucessor for the 920 and the 1020 but it would have no appeal to people using iOS or Android since the OS is almost 15 months old and still lacks a bunch of basic features.
  • It's both of them. The 920 was one of the best selling WP of all time, yet Nokia waits over a year for its successor, that's a bad business decision. Yes, Microsoft could update faster, but seeing how I have like 4 friends on WP and I've never heard a single complaint about the OS, I don't think that's the only problem.
  • yes, I am sure results would get better after WP8.1 release but it wont be NOKIA then. MICROSOFT would have those gains.
  • Well said.
  • I think microsoft has to add a lot of things to the OS. Many of my friends do not switch to windows phone because of the OS. Live wallpapers, wifi direct, a better music player because the default one sucks. Closing apps swiping, the video player sucks, internet explorer sucks compared to chrome and others, in general windows phone sucks. Im switching to apple.
  • You right on that internet explorer does suck.
  • Mixed experience here.
  • Explain how it sucks. Because in my experiences, I have had ZERO issues with IE. Not on my computer, nor on any version of WP I've had. So don't be yet another flapping mouth, anti-everythng-microsoft-puts-out, explain how it sucks.
  • I cas notice that you have never used chrome in a phone. It has o lot of features that IE doesn't have. What about incognito tabs? Or to be able to go back on a website? I have been an android and apple users for many years and I know the pros and cons of windows phone.
  • Not everything you see on other devices can, nor should be considered a "feature".
  • What about the fact that it needs to load the page again when i try to go back to the previous page? what about certain sites not working well?(soundcloud) ?what about the fact that every single time the cache needs to be cleared whenever i have any annoyance with the fluidity of the phone?Don`t tell me that because something does basic stuff,you can`t make it a little better,feature wise unless you want are not competing with the other platforms
  • 100% with elmacho
  • You're right but the things I mentioned are features and there are even more!!!
  • Who cares, you're on person
  • The "closing apps swiping" complaint is the most laughable to me. Nobody cares whether you have to click X or swipe to close an app. If you complain about that, you're nitpicking.
  • That is called user-friendly my friend, if you don't care about that, that's fine but I do because it's faster and easier. Also it should have where to close all apps.
  • Swiping to close apps is less user friendly for me. I have to be very deliberate in my swipe or I just end up scrolling thru open apps. Sure, you might not have this problem but for me a tap will be easier than a swipe.
  • Just remember that windows phone is competing with other platforms,so there are plenty of things that people wanna see in windows phones that you can already find in android and iOS.
  • But if it comes out as a MS Lumia I doubt it
  • Well the 925/928 are updated 920's. The 1020 replaced them as the flagship. The 1520 joined it as the LSD flagship. So it's not like they've not brought out sucessors to the 920. They just haven't been good enough. I have a 920 and have been itching to replace it for most of 2013. But I prefer the design language of the 920 to the 925, and other than weight and slightly better camera didn't feel it was good enough to update. The 1020 was too bulky for me. Now there's the rumoured Icon, which seems to have everything, but with 8.1 and the MS takeover coming shortly again I feel like waiting yet again for the next thing. Which is all fair enough, Apple haven't changed the iPhone since the 4 (bigger, faster, but much the same). So Nokia at least have provided far more updates and options and it is unrealistic to think they'd have something revolutionary better every 6 months; other than fantics like us on here people just don't change their phones that often. I hope with WP8.1 (or 9 hopefully) I don't expect sales will change much in 2014. They need a revamp, brand new range of phones and major software updates to entice a bigger percentage of people into the WP system (and to get people to upgrade).
  • You're missing the point. The 1020 is a niche device and is its own thing, not a 920 successor. The 1520 is the same thing. Yes, you could say its the flagship, but that still means nothing. The Note 3 is Samsung's flagship, yet the S4 outsells it. The 925 isn't available everywhere and the 928 is only on Verizon, so I hardly think those would matter.
  • Actually you can use Lumia 928 anywhere, it's unlocked. I used it in Russia (Megafon) and using it with T-Mobiles sim. Just don't have LTE, WiFi calling, can't send pics (attach to txt message) -and none of them I need, except sending pics, well I use whatsapp for it and problem solved.
  • Having to ship an unlocked device from another country is not exactly what I call being a successor. Regarding the l925 specs are pretty much the same as l920 except for more ram... But same processor, half storage space of the l920 (and still no sd slot).. not quite the deal of the year...
  • I don't think I've missed the point at all, I've got a 920 and want something to replace it, I've just been let down by the sucessors Nokia have released. They exist, they just haven't been what many people have required. The 1020 is only niche in that it's a bit expensive. (Hell ALL WP phones are niche in a way...). If it was released at the same price point as the 920; would you have bought it then? The 1520, like the Note are a different line. I never claimed it was a successor, just the flagship LSD. In most regions you can get a 925 or 928 - as easily as you can get a 920 give or take; so I think it's fair to call them sucessors. And even if it wasn't on your carrier/country that is indicative of other issues with WP; but doesn't make it any less a successor. The point is, no successor has been good enough for you (or me and many others) to upgrade. But then as I said if you had an iPhone 4, you'd probably skip the 4S, maybe even the 5 and 5S wouldn't be enough. You could be waiting years for a "successor". If it wasn't for Apple making them redundant by making the newer versions of their OS run horribly way more people would not have upgraded. So slow as Nokia are, they're faster than many others.
  • The 1020 is an upgrade to the 920. I had a 920 and picked up the 1020 for the camera but I got more than double the battery life, it doesn't heat up when talking on the phone, it doesn't heat up to the level of the 920 when playing games and even with the camera it is thinner and feels less bulky which was a surprise. Good upgrade for me.
  • Totally agee with you there. I also own a L920, and none of the newer phones released by Nokia has made me scream, "I want that one!" Just like I did when the L920 was released.
  • Just because only ifanboys do that.
  • The 925 is not an updated 920 its more of an updated 820 its still less then the 920 and the 928 well they just made it squared not updated either.
  • Wow, you serious with this?? The 925 has everything the 920 does, plus several improvements, and it's not an update??  
  • Half the memory.... Subjective  indeed but I prefer the design of the 920 and I hate the hump on the back.
  • Half the memory... Dude, they are trying to sell people on using SkyDrive. Just like everyone else is trying to convince people to use thier "cloud" services. You may not like it, but that's the truth.
    Your design preferences have nothing to do with improvements. Because in actuallity, the 925 addressed something that (way too many crybaby) people were "compaining" about... the size and weight of the 920.
    Personally I would have LOVED for the 920 to come to T-Mobile
  • Not everything half the memory plus no wireless charging and they still charge the same. I got my 920 for 100 +wireless charger.
  • Couldn't agree more. I bought and returned a 920 in January LAST YEAR. With no inklings of an upgrade to the 920 I am out of the WinPhone market until I see one.
  • Yep, those phablets were dumb. Still no 920 successor and they are looking pretty complacent on the low to mid range.
  • Complacent on top-end too... Still nothing with microSD & capped at 32 GB. FML.
  • Why would you need or want mSD on high-end? they suck up more battery (yes the card does that just being idle). they are slow. they are unsafe (people can steal data and  you can't remotely wipe mSD) mSD is stupid and I agree with Nokia, HTC, and Apple decision to exclude it in high-end
  • I don't notice any lack of speed running Here Maps off the SD card. If the 820 supported class 10 cards there would be no speed issue at all. The safety issue is one that MS has to address - the phone should give you the option to encrypt the mSD card, and thereby also add it to the pool for apps. My phone has got 40Gb of space, but 20Gb is unused while I had to uninstall things to get Black to load. They absolutely do need to give us expandable storage, it's a major reason to buy vs. an iPhone where Apple charges you a significant amount of money for a RAM upgrade.
  • You simply can't beat the access speed of microSD. I can preload one with music, another with videos, another with ebooks etc and switch them out at a moments notice. This is great for commuting or travelling overseas. It takes a few seconds to "transfer" 32-64 GB of data from my pocket to the phone - there is nothing else that can beat that!
    Also, when I'm travelling I use my phone as a camera a lot of the time... so when it gets full it's easier to swap out a microSD card, instead of taking my laptop with me on holiday. I can easily buy new ones, and I don't have to hang around the hotel waiting for my files to transfer.
  • Disappointed with holiday sales? Release something for a carrier other than ATT. Lots of us over on Verizon were ready to pull the trigger.
  • +929
  • ^This
  • Yep. I've been dying to get my hands on the 929, but we've heard rumors of this phone for how long now? Now, I'm torn between getting it and just waiting for the next gen hardware that comes out after 8.1 is released. Of course, with Verizon, that could be in 2015.
  • And its not like my experience with att sales is good either! Seems like att sales reps hate WP. They always question me on why WP! They have always either tried to lead me either towards iPhones or androids...always! So bad sales for Nokia? Do some mystery shops at these att locations and you will see why sales are down . I'm very techy and I get itchy for new devices every year but still waiting on a device to replace my 920 but att likes to butcher phones so I'm just going to wait so see what else they do ...carriers have some blame!
  • @paulxxwall
    Precisely!!!
    AT$T seems not to really care about training their sales staff to understand the subtle differences in devices, as they can provide an educated sales experience - which seems odd considering they claim to hold sway to device manufacturing specs. Gutting the 1520, and opting away from QI (oh, and where are these cases and chargers you are so explicitly behind, huh?!?) were TERRIBLE ideas! All they seem to care about are strategic product sales numbers, not providing solid devices for their consumers.
  • My friend works for T-Mobile and says they get a higher commission for selling android and iPhones, not so much for WP. Lumia 822 owner here!
  • I didn't know that TMobile had the 822. If it's from another source you still can't tether with it.  This is one of my major issues with MS phones.  You can't tether with 3rd party MVNOs (effectively, I know about Tether-X and it only works for the browser and not email or client apps). For me to have tethering with my 820 I would have to drop my $45 Net 10 plan and join ATTs $90 plan. And no, Att will not let you tether on a GoPhone plan.
  • I'm with Verizon for my 822...I was just saying that my friend who works at t-mobile mentioned a higher commission for android or ios. I think you could use an 822 on t-mobile!
  • The carrier exclusivity is clearly not working in nokia/wp's favor no matter what financial perks they get.
  • Doesn't help releasing products near the end of December. And the icon? How about the 1320? Not even released yet. Carrier and distribution problems!
  • +1 hopmedic. They would've sold me on the 1520 if it was for Verizon. And if it was 32GB, which it probably would've been had at&t not gutted it.
  • You seem to assume that this is a US only site. It isn't.
  • You seem to assume that I should speak from someone else's perspective.  I don't.
  • Its 8.2 million lumias as per the verge. That's not sounding very good. I hope 2014 is better
  • It won't be until they have a new range of phones running 8.1 (or whatever comes next) and I guess that will be MS, not Nokia.
  • I swear, if the Icon doesn't launch on February 5th, Nokia will be losing a sale from me.
  • This⬆
  • Well now that Nokia has shifted the dead weight to Microsoft my confidence in WP succeeding has plummeted. Microsoft has no clout in the consumer space. I mean the lumia 520 is like $40 bucks and they still can't shift 10 million a quarter. No one wants Windows Phones or Windows tablets. No one will touch Windows RT. I really hope Build has some interesting developments else its going to be a tough 2014 for Microsoft.
  • The 520 is $100 in the US, and more expensive elsewhere. That $40 was a one time thing from Amazon. Don't be a drama queen.
  • Right. In fact, it's $140 in ebay and flipkart here in India. And $150 in nokia stores
  • People want windows tablets. The Surface 2 has been sold out everywhere I live as well as on Microsoft's online store.
  • Still in comparison to the Android tablets and iPad sales are small. MS have brand issues. I think the next CEO has to be someone personable who will make some sweeping changes for things to improve for them. I mean if people honestly can choose anything Google over MS you can see how messed up the world is. Trusting an advertising firm over a software firm just is amazing to me, yet that's what's going on.
  • Actually, except for Amazon, Microsoft already passed all other actual Google Play compatible tablets in market share already.  (I seperate out Amazon since it's a non-google play device).
  • Yeah but the mere thought that there could be as many Android tablets as Windows ones is wrong. Your figure is just by dint of people buying Windows machines as they always have and doesn't really have anything to do with the new tablet (6-10" craze). The new tablet market should be Microsofts, they pretty much invented it. Ok they slept, but in the same way they overtook the netbook market they should have caught up by now. Nobody should be interested in Android tablets anymore, they should realise that they can get a far more advanced and feature friendly Windows tablet for the same money. Yet the 8" Windows tablets have only just started to appear and they are still fatter & more expensive and not as well optimised for the size. Until we have WP9 (WP & RT mashup + new coolness) the reality is people are still going to go elsewhere except for the few educated consumers.
  • Actually, the numbers only count tablets as devices without keyboards attached.  So things like the Surface count.  Gartner has defined it that way since June 12.  I believe (I'll look later), that Gartner is the one who put that statistic out as well about Tablets sales.  Apple #1, Amazon #2, MS #3, then every other vendor with a google play tablet.
  • Small supply. MS learned from the Gen 1 debacle. I've never seen a Surface RT or Surface 2 in the wild and I live in a major metro area.
  • I've seen 3 and I live in a small town. Anecdotes mean nothing, sales do.
  • It's been known for a while that they sold 8.2 million Lumias. Please update the post. That's not too bad actually since they didn't release many phones for the Holiday season and most of the low/mid-end phones available were more than 6 months older.
  • With Verizon releasing so few Windows Phones, this is to be expected. Verizon is all in with Android and when you go to their stores, they push customers to their high end Android phones, even when a Windows Phone is the better choice. I, for one, am sick of the poor choices on VZ for WP. I really wanted the 1020 and it is clear it won't happen.
  • These are worldwide sales. Are you blaming Nokia sales performance around the globe on one US carrier?
  • Verizon is the largest US carrier and a thought leader in their industry. Other carriers follow their lead.
  • Nobody outside the US has even heard of Verizon, let alone cares about them. That's almost as sweeping a generalisation as thinking Verizon not having the 1020 has had any impact on sales. The 1020 is an expensive and niche device, it was never going to effect sales greatly (on Verizon, the US or the world at large).
  • I never said Lumia sales were bad because VZ does not have the 1020, but when you go into a VZ store, you get one choice of an upper tier WP, the 9238, wehich is OLD NEWS. Verizon, isn't alone, Sprint has no high end Windows Phone. My point was that until you get other carriers, besides At&T to buy into Windows Phone, you can expect mixed results. As loing as carriers don't carry phones with the latest technologies and best displays, and their employees contuinue to  push other platforms, Windows Phones sales will lag. It's not rocket science, Sherlock.  
  • You're missing the point. As far as the global market is concerned, Verizon, or any othe US network provider is extremely small fry in a masive global market. I don't want to seem like I'm belittling the US market but there are other continental markets that generate far more revenue than the US.
  • Yeah he is
  • The tekeover announcement destroyed nokia's sales! People in all over the wolrd dont like it! I hope tha the takeover will stop! I believe it, because China looks again the takeover!!!
  • Who cares about China?
  • You mean arguably the biggest cell phone buying country China? Don't be asinine
  • People who run companies surely do; clearly you are not one of them....
  • yes many people hate the deal between Microsoft and nokia.feel disappointed for nokia.many are nokia fans hope nokia could raise
  • Maybe if they stopped releasing flagship devices as carrier exclusives, their sales would rise. The last 3 flagship Lumia devices were Att exclusive (1520,1020,925black). Ditching the carrier exclusive and selling across all major carriers (t-mobile included) then I believe that would be a fair start. Sending flagship devices to one carrier, and low end, barely smart phones to the others, isn't helping sales.
  • Its not the hardware. The hardware is excellent. Microsoft has major holes in its Windows Phone branding.
  • +1520
  • +1
  • The hardware is missing microSD for flagship devices. I'm STILL waiting for a goddamn WP8 flagship with microSD. We've only had the ATIV with it in all this time... truly unbelievable! Low-end get it, mid-range get it, even those ridiculous phablets get it... flagship? top-of-the-line model? nope!
  • Uh, the 1520 is (supposedly) a flagship device, and it has microSD...
  • The point is 1520 is ACTUALLY not a flagship device even if it's meant to be. Phablet is not what most people want. Nokia should have got that point.
  • Yeah that's a phablet... I don't consider them top-end / flag-ship, but in a separate niche category. There is a distinct gap in Lumia devices - 920 / 925 / 928 / 1020 all missing microSD. If they released the 1520 in 5" or less it would be perfect.
  • +520 And I guess these are the "Basic functions" they call in iOS and 'Droid...
  • Like MicroSD and NFC in iPhone or USB3 in iPad? Do you know that the USB support in Android tabs ONLY detect USB stick, not even external drives, camera and other millions of removable devices?   These are the basic charms of Windows.
  • That's foolish. 100% foolish to be exact. Most people, and by most people I really do mean MOST people who go into stores looking for "smartphones" don't care about 90% of the crap all of you are crying about. Picture the people you see using smartphone devices... the people you SEE, not the ones you think you know nor the ones you imagine.
    Now picture those same people going into a store and saying, "Well I can't switch apps, nor is there a notification center so I thinnk I better look elsewhere.
    You can attempt to argue it all you want, but most people don't know nor do they care about that stuff. If it mattered there wouldn't be so many shitty, buggy, laggy android devicesin so many people's pockets right now.
  • Thank God someone finally typed what I was thinking. Reading these comments about missing features or other things is mind blowing if people really think this is why Nokia sold fewer phones last quarter. Wow.
  • You are right, they dont ask specifically, for a notification centre, or to be able to actually search their own text messages. However, your reasoning is flawed, they dont ask because they reasonably expect such basic and necessary features would already be included.
  • Most people don't even know that stuff exists. Sorry, but it's true.
  • Well dear friend,you must be living in 2010,when there were shittybuggy laggy androids around,it ain`t the case now.About bugs,there are a lot of them in WP8 as well.
  • Umm, on the contrary really, I dare say most people don't even know those stuff even exist. I, a WP user, sometimes have to point out to these iOS and Android users about some of the features that their phones have, and they would be like, "Wooow, cool!"
     
  • Having latest smartphone is a global trend and more of a fashion. Similarly, comparing phone platforms is an effective way to fill the void (mine is better than yours). Very few care about what's inside. They keep telling themselves and people around them that whatever is inside is helping making their lives better, which is highly subjective. For the rest, who are not even interested in learning about the device they own, its merely waste of money and plastic.
  • This is a US problem only, but could be one reason why Nokia sells not to much there...
  • This ^
  • 2014 is the year. the bell is ringing and the lady is starting to sing....Microsoft better get the message now or never.
  • This.
  • +920
  • Microsoft needs to loosen up restrictions on the OS to make it more easy to work with and customize. They also need to make sure that the toolsets used to make ios and android apps also accommodate Windows Phone, they need to make sure the Windows Phone store logo gets included alongside apple app store, and google play store, they need to ensure Xbox music is included alongside iTunes and Amazon as a resource to get music. My list goes on and on, but this is a good start.
  • Excellent points.
  • Very appropriate points indeed!
  • +720.
  • I agree. I see tv ads for companies that have a WP app but the ad only shows play store and apple app store logo
  • Case in point go to the Shazam site. A major app, WP is barely mentioned and mentioned incorrectly on their site. Who at Microsoft is even monitoring these business relationships?
  • Huh??? I just went to Shazam.com and everything looks fine. They mention WP8 and have a different slot for W8. Wtf is the problem there?
  • 1) fair point, but not one that would drive sales.
    2) some of those are out of Microsoft's hands
    3) I don't think you realize how commercials work. Even adding small details costs money.
    4) they do. A couple of months ago, I bought a sweet tea from mcdonalds and they were advertising The Wolverine movie and the only thing it said was "now on Xbox video" with no mention of iTunes or Google Play.
  • This is the only way MS will get this thing to take off - ease restrictions, and advertise more, get companies to recognize it.  You never see the windows store icon, only itunes, and google play / Amazon..........get the branding out there.  Whoever does the branding needs a fire lighted on their a$$
  • Also get involved with companies like this who offer easy application development tools. Easily ports app to ios and android but Windows Phone is absent. http://mobile.conduit.com/
  • Agreed
  • To summarise, they need to make sure what people complain in uservoice.com are not neglected and take years to implement them
  • Its really all about perception and brand awareness. Some things seem to be implemented but not followed through. With the Shazam service, tag a song through the client and post it to Facebook or Twitter. Now click on it, as any of your friends might. Hey that song is apparently only available through iTunes and Amazon. What? Little things like that show a lack of detail and follow through. Microsoft should be all over that. Act like a major player, insist that they also include a picture of a Windows Phone anytime you also carry that app and the company shows an android and iPhone. Are we seriously competing here or what?
  • Oh yeah, because loose restrictions on the OS has benefited Apple for so long.
  • This isn't about apple. Its about what can be done to further interest in the WP platform.
  • You make an excellent argument in so many ways but the biggrst issue I can envisage with opening the code is that it will then be as prone to abuse and malware coding as Android has proven to be. As limited as it might seem, the strength of WP is its resistance to malware.
  • Well, what comes to developer support Microsoft actually took a major step backwards with Windows Phone 8. While you could run Windows Phone 7 emulator on any somewhat decent hardware, the Windows Phone 8 emulator requires Hyper-V and works only on Windows 8. So for example an iOS developer who's been maintaing also a Windows Phone 7 version of their app on a Windows 7 virtual machine on their MacBook Pro suddenly finds out that in order to develop for Windows Phone 8 and not having to do all debugging and testing on a live device, they'd actually need to purchase Windows 8 (this wasn't actually that much of an issue back when MS had the rather reasonable introductory pricing), possibly switch their virtualization solution (e.g. Parallels didn't support Hyper-V back when I checked), hack the new virtualization solution a little bit (even VMware doesn't support Hyper-V out of the box), and get used to Windows 8 (not a great experience on a virtual machine). In addition to that, a new test device would also have to be purchased since even a flagship purchased less than a year ago wouldn't be getting Windows Phone 8. At that point it would be hard to blame the developer if their reaction was "Well screw you too, Microsoft. I'm abandoning WP development." Having to jump through extra hurdles just to continue not having that impressive sales figures doesn't sound too enticing.  
  • Nice Golf.
  • Was a quiet cruise!
  • The downfall of sell of Lumia phone is due to late update of features in OS & less apps.Several things have to be done before thinking about sell , why people sacrifice money for the betterment of Microsoft. & Nokia
  • Totally right! They should not go through carriers to release updates!
  • I registered just to write this I am a Windows Phone fan since it was Windows Mobile, I owned serveral WP phones, HD7, Lumia900, 920 and 1520, I owned serveral Android phones too The problem is with Microsoft! Period! They really need to redesign the home screen or open it to developers and see what they come up with. People fall in love with my 1520, but when they try it, they always put off by the home screen design! people like wallpapers and icons, the Metro homescreen looks OK first, then it becomes boring!
  • + 1520 God, I don't even want to talk about the titles color palette.
  • I'll say it again. Microsoft needs to release theme packs for Windows Phone and/or need to make the home screen similar to the Photos tile section where icons or live tiles sit over a selected background picture.
  • Make it closer to Windows 8 style with background images, groups, incentive every app to pick its on color instead of a bunch of same color titles. It gets boring after 6 months seeing the same thing in your homescreen. The app list is awful as well. So much scrolling.
  • If you don't like scrolling, don't do it.  Tap the "a" at the top of the list, then the letter you want to skip to.  And, if you're spending that much time scrolling in the app list, you're not managing your homescreen properly. If you get bored looking at the same homescreen after 6 months, change it.  Change your theme color.  Move the icons around.
  • Bring in interactive tiles at least. Not ones that update in an hour. If facebook app can bring real time notifications, why can't the rest? And the colour scheme looks really stupid at times - the tiles look like a box of crayons with different colours. Please make them interactive. Plus themes are a must! Phew! And yes, app list needs to be different, maybe more arranged. The 'list' kind sucks!
  • You do realize that the tiles are only as interactive as the app's developer makes them, right?
  • The idea of tiles "widgets" just don't work. They tried it with windows and people don't even know it is there. 
  • Emad, you're basically saying MS should copy or keep using everything already exists. Doesn't sound very exciting.
  • Nor does it sound smart.
  • NO. If there is ONE DAMN THING that microsoft did well, it is the live tiles acting like widgets. It is simple sober and elegant. One of the reason people switch from android to windows phone: the idea of having harmonized widgets that fit just right in the home screen layout.
  • I hate icons Emad, they are so 10 years ago.
  • People don't think mine is boring - they are overwhelmed by how much is going on. An android or iphone has like 16 icons maximum? then you have to change to a new screen. I have 28 icons on one screen size and that just scrolls and scrolls and scrolls into around 80 more. It's even worse with quite a few live tiles all flipping and changing. I keep a lot of my apps as the smallest icon just to turn off the live-tile madness. There really should be an option when you pin a tile to choose if you want it to flip and do cart-wheels, or if you just want a static icon with a counter.
  • Agreed
  • It sounds like you'd prefer Android, so why don't you buy an Android phone? Seriously, you have that choice. I, for one, switched to WP7 back in the day because it was something different. If Microsoft went back to the old, "trusty" icon/desktop interface, then what kind of choice would that leave us?
  • I for one have never been bored with my homescreen have had it almost the same since wp7
  • Why in the world is there no color picker yet?
  • really!I hate the homescreen of WP8.even badder than wp7.really mess.too busy.and the gap between the tiles and gap to screen border are not the same really bother me.I think 3 tiles like 1320 in phones like 925 looks much better cause of 3 tiles!I don't know what's on the homescreen designs's mind .can we buy a phone with such an ugly homescreen?can't we have twe homescreen?can't we have more personality?as I know many people in china hate the homescreen of WP8
  • I for one am happy with my 1020 & the 920 i had before that
  • If Verizon had released the 929/Icon around Thanksgiving or even Christmas I most likely would have bought one.
  • Amen to that. Now it will be obselete in 3 months. Who wants that? The need to release new devices on all carriers now. The technology is already there with the icon and close with the 1820, but the carrier contracts and the looming aquisition are an absolute mess. Heads should be rolling at the top, but the urgency just does not seem to be there. 2014 will mark the death of the WP if they don't do something soon. We all know the fall will bring a slew of new Applle and Android goodies for the masses and they have been trained to wait for is with dull options from Nokia and BB. (The 1020 would have been a winner without the ATT exclusive)
  • Just read about the same info on Cnet and they were clearly biased against windows phones. My understanding it is the loss of Symbian based phones that are causing the number drops for Nokia, not the WP8 phones. I do really hope Microsoft gets their act together soon with WP 8.1.
  • No, Symbian sales are not shown on year to year anymore. Lumia sales actually declined quarter on quarter. That's even more horrible when sales actually declined on the Holiday season.
  • ATT ruining Lumia sales... Seriously..
  • ^This
  • Speaking as someone living in the UK, who are ATT? I actually know the answer to this question but the point I'm trying to make is that this is a global site and your argument means little or nothing to many users here, so your point is best aimed at the company in question, not this site. Personally speaking, I buy my phones then choose the network. That way I'm in the driving seat.
  • 8.2Million is pretty decent.  Iam somewhat disspointed in these figures.  Nokia really missed the ball this holdiday Season with only launching a 6" flagship on one Carrier in one Country pretty much.  I widh the 1020 would of sold better.  Next quarter has to be an increase or the media will be all over this with Windows phone doom and glom articles.  Weve been seeing alot of positive momentum upto this point.  Iphone 5s and the Galaxy Note 3 laucnhed on all carriers around the world for god sakes.  What did Nokia have to compete with these phones?  Nothing except a super exclusive Lumia 1020 which you cant find anywhere.  Here in Canada its seriously hard to find.  Best Buy doesnt even have it on display.  Its pathetic.  The 1020 is the best phone ever created and should be advertised everywhere, and be available everywhere.  Nokia and Microsoft really messed up with the 1020 and its avialability.  There probably isnt going to be a phone like that compared to the competition again.  Apple and Samsung will up therye game next time around.  Im still optimistic and I think Microsoft can turn it around next year.  They have to break the 10% barrier in the US  
  • This quarter they aren`t even offering anything new.WP8.1 has been slated for April release.Expecting anything better in terms of sales is a joke.
  • Nothing like sales down to motivate a company to push harder. Let's face it, Windows Phone OS while it has some leading features (family things), is on a catchup with Android and iOS.  8.1 will hopefully bring some feature parity (VPN/notification center etc.) which should help though. The fact that platforms like Unity now support WP is also great as apps can come out on all platforms which reduces the app issue.  So far Microsoft and Nokia have been doing the right things... more phones, more apps, more features.   But they do need to speed up the changes delivered on each release, especially given the time it takes to push these through carrier certification and testing.
  • Must be the awful number of defective units they shipped.
  • I think the recipe for success boils down to a few simple take homes - 1. Do NOT lock your device to a carrier or network. Flood the market with your phones and let them be available to everyone who wants one. Push pre-paid devices in the US. The 520 would do so well if people could just purchase for under a ton and not have to worry about contracts and all that bullshit. 2. Since MS jumped back into the mobile space with both feet, it surprises me that their response time to market change and consumer demand has been sluggish. Updates are too few and far between and contain only minor features. Bypass these carriers and update swiftly and fluidly. If you cant do that, carve a way through them. Youre Microsoft, you can make it happen. 3. We need more ads like the ones Nokia has been airing. But broadcast them EVERYWHERE, not just Youtube. It sounds expensive, but that's better than sinking billions into your platform, then having it flop because you weren't quick and clever enough to market it right. 4. Really sell the platforms aesthetics and USPs. You've got all the major apps, now focus on making them more unique and capable than your competitors. I love WP, but the heads at the top frustrate the piss out of me. Too slow to act, too much red tape, they need someone to take this bull by the horns and shake the ever loving crap out of it
  • They just refuse to offer a single phone that brings it all together. Why no built in wireless charging on some high end phones? Why Gorilla glass 2 in some phones still? Verizon SIM slot fantastic... Others medieval. Largest Nokia phone nano SIM.. All others micro. This phone has SD this one doesn't. Make a really great phone and sell it hard. Then release a mini version. Is that so hard?
  • Why is Windows phone sales not growing to a extent that it had shoud been. Main reason( ppls mentality.... Why u need a Windows phone?? pc is enough. Go buy android where apps r free. Go buy status (iPhone).
  • Main reason: WP doesn't offer anything worth the switch (to many at least). WP is easy to use no doubt, but it is pretty much a downgrade in every other area. Even SoC-support lags android at least 6 months, which kind of puts a damper on any new flagship. For my use-cases, I get as much, or more, out of my Jolla than I do out of my 720.
  • +1
  • +1
  • Status? LOL! Maybe in your country. An iPhone doesn't mean shit anywhere else. Even poor students will have one
  • Yeah, WP8 needs some fresh life in it like new features and new mid sized phones for every price point (High end 4.5 inch, mid phone, low end w/ff camera etc...). Like a previous commentor said, the smaller phones have been out for 6 months or more. I love my Lumia 1520 but most ppl would be turned off by the size. Why they came out with that size as the phone to tackle the holidays is beyond me.
  • Exclusivity is killing them. I jumped to a ATIV S on T-Mobile. There wasn't no high end Lumia option.
  • Just few basic things will get back on track..like download videos directly to music+videos,much more user friendly music player,basic games like tr2,ss,..for all lumias..512mbs are bit slow with resuming and loading screens...etc etc...just remove some of restrictions its done...waiting for 8.1...
  • 92X are updates, not successors to the 920. They all have almost identical internal specs, but with slightly different cameras and bodies. Nokia definitely needs a proper 930 to replace the 1.5 year old 920.
  • Nokia slumped in the US because people not buying that are on ATT because ATT neuter there phones! They would have had a sale from me if ATT wouldn't have downed the memory or taken out QI charging on the 1520. I know I can't be alone either. Damn ATT.
  • Of course they will have disappointing Q4 results because they refuse to sell their phones in all countries. They never learn from their mistakes.
  • Microsoft needs to sort the devices global avaiability ASAP, or it will never work. Devices are anounced but only hit the store months after the anouncement, and only in very few countries. The 1520 is still not avaiable in portugal. I can pre-order it with a deliver date somewhere in February for 789 euros!!! ARE THEY ON DRUGS?!?! The 1520 costs how much in the US, 600 dollars?  
  • RIP Nokia. Thanks for nothing mS. I'm switching back to low end phones after Nokia stops making Windows Phones.
  • There's a bunch of ex-Nokia engineers starting a new company called (embarassingly) Newkia that are developing Android handsets  These are the people who designed the Nokia Lumia phone you probably already own, so keep your eyes open in the coming months.
  • This is disappointing, but time will improve the WP situation. It goes to show that it still has a lot more ground to cover in the smartphone world. I had a job interview for a freelance writing gig on Tuesday that involves writing about "how to - smartphone" topics and I told the guy about my Lumia 920 and pulled it out of my bag to show it to him. He said they just cover what the majority wants and knows, which is Android and iOS, so those are the platforms I would have to focus on if I got the job. I was disappointed, to say the least. Well, if I get that job, I'll still get a few WP articles out regardless. I think in a year from now, the situation will be different and WP will have a more solid third place behind those two platforms.
  • Q4 2013 was a pretty dry quarter as far as Nokia was concerned. In the UK/Europe there has been very little activity in new devices either being launched or making it to store in months, most operators haven't yet launched the 1520 widely and are still peddling the 925, 1020, 625 and 520. Nokia need to start updating their core range properly and quickly, instead of just launching niche devices all the time.
  • Biggest problem here is not HW... that got updates...biggest problem is LACK OF REASON to get new HW... Case in point? Why in a world you'd get different phone when your current Nokia runs everything just fine? 1020 sold well because it gave people a reason to upgrade: amazing camera... But now what? The only thing a NOKIA can think of in terms of upgrade is to give people bigger screen. Yes, they can update 920 with 500 GB or RAM and 1 TB of flash (pun intended) but does that change anything? Nope. Experience is pretty much the same as it's always been. Every other company (apple, samsung) releases something new in iOS to give people reason for upgrading (regardless if those features are actually usefull or not). Look at Samsung S5... they're changing UI agian. Why? If they try to sell S5 with vanilla Android it just woudn't sell... Biggest MS problem this year is Windows Phone 8.1. Other than Cortana (and let's be real here, does anyone actually uses Siri? Of course not... same will happen with Cortana... it will be a coolest new feature that no one will ever use...) If MS wants to sell more phones UI needs a refresh regardless if it's actually needed or not. It has to be flashy and full of new and easily accesable features. And no, Cortana and another live tile called "notification center" will not cut it in this day and age... seeing these 2 features most people will simply "skip it and wait for next gen". So sales will tank this year as most windows phone users will have no reason to upgrade...  
  • This.A 6 inch screen on the L1520 which can`t even support multiple windows,thanks to MSFT.I saw the CES 2014 Qualcomm videos and i do appreciate what Nokia is doing in terms of camera software ,most of the features in the Snapdragon 805 have already been implemented by Nokia,but what about Microsoft,they are finally bringing quick settings and notification center in April...There is no way to change the way the homescreen looks than accents,not even a wallpaper and they expect to contend with the other OS,really?
  • When I go to any big electronic store I see ppl more ppl looking for iPhone and Android and less ppl for Windows store. Might be the reason that there arent many Windows phone devices except a Lumia. We need companies like lenovo and micromax to gain,more profit. Nokia cannot handle all stuff alone.
  • It's matter or perception... People look at iOS and Android because they're heard of it. People skip Windows phone because they've heard that it lack apps + they've heard that OS lack usefull features (regardless of the fact that most people can't name a single one that's missing). None of this is Nokia fault per say. SIDENOTE: I'm in IT and I work with geeks... every single one of my co-workers have asked me "how bad is the lack of apps". They tend to be baffled when I tell them that I got everything I need and more. App situation is just not out there... And than they ask me about notification centre... and this is when I show them that live tiles really work as well if not better than android notification centre... On Android: unlock phone, swipe down, you're up to date... on Win Phone? Unlock the phone. Done. You're up to date. But of course people have no idea... (I use wide tiles for e-mail and text so I don't have to open the app to see most recent missed text or e-mail and missed phone calls with detail of who called is on lock screen anyways)
  • Totally agree about the notification centre. I've always been baffled by people crying out for this supposedly show-stopping missing feature, when the entire home screen is one big notification centre. I honestly believe half the people who comment on this site would be better off with Android, as they seem totally to miss the point of WP.
  • Yeah, we definitely don't need a notification center, maybe something that shows that there's an unread message
  • Maybe notification center is not the issue..But what about the quick settings to use bluetooth,wifi etc..Dont you think its a neccessary thing to implement on a smart phone..Ios didnt have at first but they brought it with Ios 7.. P.S.. Please dont say there are lot of apps which can do it..They dont serve the purpose as we need to do lot of clicking to finally use the settings..
  • I wonder if those numbers are even accurate. What I mean is that there might be an advantage to downplaying the numbers while the transition is being made from Nokia to Microsoft, and then making the numbers seem infalted in the next quarter, after the transition is complete. It wouldn't be the first time a big company skewed their quarterly numbers. I bought a 1020 in November. Love it.
  • Nobody wants to buy a Phone from a company that is soon to disappear. Honestly of i has to buy a Phone for the holidays that had just pased i wouldn't buy a Lumia because L1520 wasn't available in my country(is not available yet) and the other lumias well are not as good as my920(1020 is a 920 with a monstrous camera and 1 gb+) besides Nokia is a horrible brand with costumers in México we always have updates after everyone else it is impossible to get original accessories or unlocked phones. When you reach out for explanations they find a politically correct way to mask the lack of answers. There was no strong marketing behind the devices at least in México. Still i am in love with the phone i own. I think this situation is the same in many many countries so no wonder sales were down.
  • Disappointing to hear. I had hoped they could grow despite not having a new flagship model. It would have ment great things in 2014.   But they really need a new flagship device. Right now its still the 92X line of devices and those came out in 2012! The L1020 is a niche device just like their phablets. Nokia has greatly improved their technology and is able to create thin devices. Imagine a thin and light Lumia with great specs and a 4.5 or 4.7 inch screen as well as a great camera and other unique tech build in.
  • I don't see this as bad news. Especially now that Microsoft will be taking over. However Microsoft really needs to end this carrier exclusive bullsh!t,and market effectively. Also they need to be consistent with launches and launch immediately in markets in the US and abroad,stop taking so long to launch in certain markets giving competition a helping hand,and making potential buyers impatient by doing so.
  • I don't understand this. WP improved constantly, the marketplace is better than ever and even Instagram is there, they provide a phone for every price range, update policy is very good (even my first generation WP8 still receives big updates whereas my friend's newer Android phones stopped receiving updates). And in result they sold less Windows Phones during holiday season than regular months?!?! This does not make any sense. I would expect WP to sell less than Android or iPhone but I totally didn't expect the sales to drop after all the improvements.
  • Its because Samsung and the android army has dumb prices, making mid end devices as the same price as a Lumia 520 and selling Low end devices much cheaper than Lumia 520. "The decline in discontinued operations net sales in 2013 was primarily due to lower Mobile Phones net sales and, to a lesser extent, lower Smart Devices net sales. The decline in Mobile Phones net sales was due to lower volumes and ASPs, affected by competitive industry dynamics, including intense smartphone competition at increasingly lower price points and intense competition at the low end of our product portfolio. The decline in Smart Devices net sales was due to lower volumes, affected by competitive industry dynamics including the strong momentum of competing smartphone platforms, as well as our portfolio transition from Symbian products to Lumia products." Nokia Q4/13 repport     
  • Wp8 seriously need some basic features like background download, file manager,browser download and notification center. Than only people will consider windows operating system.
  • We also need a way to select what app will be allowed to permanetly run in the background. The way it is proper smart device support is impossible...
  • Dude, you are lost.
  • Most of the comments and the article in general are so negative. Nokia sold more than double Lumia's than last year. 30m Lumias in 2013 than 13.3m Lumias in 2012. That's pretty good news to me. In our office, before November there's only 2 persons who owns a Lumia device. Now we're 9 and also drawing a lot of interests from others.
  • Pretty much. People are interpreting Q4 as the equivalent to the entirety of 2013. Meanwhile, there was also a report stating that they sold more WP devices this Christmas than in 2012. SIx of one, half dozen of the other...
  • If WP doesn't even approach profitability for OEMs, it is unlikely to take off. Also sales dropping in holiday season isn't really a good thing. I guess, those are the reasons for negativity.
  • Don't get me wrong, it's good news that the company managed to sell double what they did in 2012. The issue here is they sold less Lumia Windows Phones in Q4 (arguably the more important quarter of the year) than in Q3. Not by much mind you, but that's still a significant fall.
  • Fair point. There is cause for concern, but there's no reason to burn down the barn just yet.
  • Funny how so many now are crying WP lacks features when all we heard before was "1520, best phone ever!". It was always obvious that WP was uncompetitive, lacking basic features like creating playlists yet Microsoft wants to charge for their music service. Been saying it for a long time, the OS is far behind other platforms so no wonder sales aren't that impressive when the fire sales on the 520 stopped. Remember when Joe B said they aren't adding features but concentrating on just lowering prices, this is the result. Maybe now MS will get a move on but somehow I doubt it.
  • As long as they make enough money to continue producing new phones I'm happy. I can't wait for the successor to the 1020! Even more zoom, more storage, and more processing!
  • Nokia didn't make enough money, at this rate neither will MS.
  • Nokia never made any profits on WP...
  • carrier exclusivity is a huge impediment to sales volume  in the nokia/windows scenario.
  • This person gets it.
  • its just one of the reasons
  • It is the major reason for myself, and family.  In my state AT&T is poor so that leaves us with no choice in Lumia devices.
  • This, absolutely. If you limit availability for consumers, you limit your sales.
  • We're all praying for change. If MS continues the same route for the last 3 years, consider WP moving to the death route.
  • Ultimately the lack of availability is hurting WP sales not just in the U.S. but worldwide. The 925 would sell well but gets very little availability. The 1520 is a great device but its niche. The Lumia Icon is something that would fair well worldwide. Lets see how much Microsoft understands the importance of availability.
  • This is what happens when u release 1 new phone only on 1 carrier that is a niche product. I said this a few months ago. For the 1st time ever I felt Nokia was dropping the ball and thought this is a huge fail on their part. This was an important holiday season, they had momentum and some attention. Could end up being the nail in the coffin for their chances in the U.S. And China. Pathetic effort on trying to capitalize on the little momentum they had and they r lucky they sold what they did. Probably 90% of the sales were from a 6 month old 50 buck phone.
  • I doubt they care. They got the money and profitable business. They can leave declining phone business for MS.
  • Very dumb decision to NOT release a 4.5-5", FHD, LTE, SD800 equipped Lumia.
  • Can someone explain what great features the Windows phone does not have compared to Android Kit Kat and also IOS.  I have a 920 and I really like it, but I read so many people complain about the lack of features.  I am looking for actually useful features that are across all the android phones not specific to what the OEMS do to it.  I am serious.
  • Sacrilege! How dare you appreciate your phone for what it is and not obsess over the minutiae of "features" that you'd probably never use anyway!
  • I'd upvote this to the moon if I could! +1 to you kind sir!
  • I may just screen grab this and send it to numerous consumers who complain about Windows Phone's lack of features - see if they'd provide valid features they so desperately require.
  • Well here's one - how about the ability to have your own custom alert sounds? Something which I had on my android phone years ago. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if I had it prior to that on my HTC Touch HD (Windows Mobile). This is a shocking absence in this day & age. Then how about assigning different ones to different contacts?  Here's another - how about having the ability to adjust the volume of your music without it affecting the volume of the ringtone? Another absolutely basic feature which Microsoft haven't been bothered to put in. Over two years ago, when got my shiny new phone (L800) with it's shiny new OS, only to find out I was some way behind the curve compared to all my friends phones (including my previous HTC Desire), it was difficult not to feel a bit let down. I stuck around though in the hope that these things would be swiftly corrected. I now have a L920 but I'm still waiting. It seems that Microsoft is akin to a giant oil tanker. Once it's gone off in one direction, it's almost impossible to turn it around. A corporation the size of MS should have hit the ground running with this OS. It should have been amazing from the off but it wasn't and that's because they were dipping their toes in the water & never applied the resources needed. Now it may be too late. Some things have improved but others haven't and momentum is slipping. Anyone who thinks the MS purchase of Nokia is a good thing is crazy. It was only Nokia who had the energy to make this thing work. Unfortunately, thanks to Microsofts totally lacklustre perfomance, they were working with one hand tied behind their back. How peed off must they have been that they were locked into this relationship with a behemoth which moved at the pace of a sloth. For instance, when was support for 1080p finally shoehorned in? Had MS not heard of it when they were creating WP? Why were the initial screen resolutions so limited? Finally I give you the playground test. How many kids are taking their Windows Phone into school and coming away thinking that they are better off than their IOS or Android owning mates. The answer is not many. This is partly because of the restrictive nature of the OS, but mainly because three years on, the apps they want are still missing. Sure enough this has improved greatly, but when they do turn up, a lot of these apps are basic versions of the IOS & Android versions, lacking many of their features. On top of this they often don't work as well either. Whatsapp on WP is still flakier than the others. And finally they don't work together as well either. This is either due to poor multi tasking in WP or poor coding by the development teams who are no doubt putting out rushed apps to get Nokia and WP users off their backs.  Last year I gave my 15 year old son my old L800. It's still working fine but he's fed up with it. He tells me it hasn't got the apps & the ones it has got are not as good as his friend's. He wants a new one. I'm looking at a Moto G. And if it's any good I may move back to Android myself. Call me when WP has caught up with, or, heaven forbid, overtaken the others. 
  • From a practical point? VPN. No VPN, no adoption by business and government. Hell the DOD is almost single-handedly responsible for the remaining blackberry usage. The USG would love native office support, but won't go with WP without VPN. That's almost 5 million devices that could be WP that are still BB and likely will go to Android if WP doesn't get their act together.
  • there are few hundred important features missing and nobody have time to list it down. soon, you will realize what are missing. 
  • I have had my L920 for over a year now, and before that I had the Samsung Focus.  I notice a diffrence between 7.8 and 8.0.  Before that I had an iPhone, and I have helped peopel with their Andriod.  So I know what I have and what is different.  I jsut do not know what the big features that are missing.  So far only one person has stated about a specific feature which was vpn.  Although I do not see a huge demand for vpn it is a valid point if companies do require it to access email and the odd app, besides that vpn is a limited product.     Another way to look at things, instead of what is missing in WP what does WP have over android and iPhone.  until version 7, iphone txt messages would not keep the time that the txt was sent if your phone was not on.  I was shocked to learn that.
  • As a WP fan what pisses me off is the crappy music app, how effing hard is it to just rebrand Zune??? Also look at the phones they released lately, 1020 @ $299 and a six inch phablet, utterly ignorant moves. Why not copy Samsungs game plan? They have all kinds of screen sizes for tjier galaxy line. I mean why can't they release the 1320 ,the 620 & all the other phones they release over seas here?? Oh and these exclusivity deals are killing them as well nit to mention that thier "Exclusive" partners dont even try to sell WP phones, complete mess.
  • ZUNE PC music player is still great! The crappy 8.1 Xbox app added back a simple version of the ZUNE visualizations recently. A step in the right direction toward ZUNE. Maybe we can hope the same for future WP updates?
  • I'm not surprised. Walk into any American retailer, even some carrier stores, and good luck finding a Windows Phone on display. You're lucky if you find an outdated model. I can't speak to the situation in other countries. I feel like there's been considerable growth, but I don't think Microsoft is pushing the platform like they need to. They seem fully invested in the Xbox One, and Windows to a lesser extent, and instead of tying Windows Phone to all that it remains neglected.
  • Microsoft and Nokia are doing their part. Except with the ATT exclusives. Because it doesn't matter how many times I see a 1020 on a billboard (and yes, here in the Northern Cal, Bay Area there has been A LOT of Windows Phone billboard) if I can't go to T-Mobile, Sprint, Verizon to buy it.
  • These exclusives are killing WP8. People have too many choices on Android. Not so much on Windows Phone. WP8 licenses should be cheaper so more OEMs can start bringing more WP8 devices.
  • Looks like Nokia did quite a amazing deal by taking the money and focusing on its porfitable business, while leaving the heavily declining business for MS.  Amazing that Lumia sales declined even in Holiday season compared to Q3. 
  • Bad. Very bad indeed.
  • I am going to copy and paste my forum post in here. I don't think the people with negative comments tried to analyze the situation before posting...  
    Of all the sites I've been, I wasn't expecting WPCentral to post an article that is discouraging to most users. Just look at the reaction in the comments, most are very negative responses.  I think we should encourage people. Q4 sales is #2 this year. That's far from bad. Moreover Nokia releases Lumia products that are not intended for a majority of people. The WPCentral 1520 review summarized that it is not for everyone. Even the 1320. And let's face it guys the 2520 is not that good because of RT. Lumia sales were more than doubled last year. That is very encouraging. Nokia hasn't release a true 920 successor yet, nor the the successor to the whole 92x series. The 1020 I believe is performing well. Cheer up guys. Windows Phone has a very bright future. If not then why Sony is considering Windows Phone? Why Huawei keeps on releasing new Windows Phone? Why there's a bluebird phone? Why do we read rumors Samsung is releasing a high-end Windows Phone? Why Windows Phone has 200k plus apps. Why Asphalt 8 has become free? And so on...
       
  • As for why other OEMs are "considering" jumping on board, it's called "support payments", i.e. bribes from Microsoft.  Without that, making a Windows Phone device is an almost guaranteed money-loser.
  • We as WP aficionado’s who do want to spread the word need to keep doing so, you are correct in that.  And if someone asks me about mine I’m quick to hand it to them so they can give it a go and say positive things.  Everybody who is complaining here are complaining about things we have no control over.  We continue to give ample feedback to MS/Nokia.  It’s all up to MS/Nokia marketing and Management.  It’s actually all about MS because Nokia has done more for WP (it appears) in 2013 than MS has.
  • Thank you "monzki". Nokia sold more than double in 2013 over 2012. We shouldn't panic over statics from one quarter not being greater than the prior. At least, not yet?
  • Well said mate.
  • So many smart people here and so little in Nokia and MS. :D
  • LOL! 
  • it ain`t about smartness and leave Nokia alone,they try doing whatever possible unlike M$
  • So this is the end..
  • Stop Exclusives.  Period.
  • Iv used both wp7 and now wp8 tbh wp8 is a hole lot better the new awesome features are coming just gotta be patient
  • 8.2 million is not that bad. Sure, it's less than the previous quarter, but it's a hell of a lot more year over year. After reading some of the comments I could have sworn they sold less than 2 million.
  • Samsung Phone Sales Down, Nokia Phone Sales down.... Apple sales probably up as they launch new stuff at xmas
  • If T Mo continues to do better, expect Nokia to continue to do worse.  WP should be considered a non-partner with T Mo at this point.  I have yet to see a functional floor model of the 925 at a T Mo store, its specs are already out of date anyhow, and its floor space is always in a worse location than accessories for low end android models. 
  • I can at least point at one reason why the sales declined- 'coz they released some phones going with some ridiculous prices to boot. The 1020 and the 1520 havnt moved enough units as the 920, 720 and 620 did the quarters before. I say Nokia was lucky to even get to this figure based on the a supposed surge in 520 (which already was strong even in previous quarters) sales during the holiday season. There simply were no new compelling phones that could take the other slightly higher price points.
  • I read somewhere they shipped 30 million in the year. That's pretty good coming from the wp7 days. Nothing to stress about. Its a growing platform. You'll occasionally see a dip. It happens. As long as there is still growth its good. Next quarter we may see a better result but one bad quarter shouldn't get all the nay sayers into a frenzy. Settle down peeps.
  • This isnt surprising considering how many low end offerings they had produced over this last year & i assume most cant easily upgrade. If MS wants their hardware/entertainment division to not take as many losses id see them sticking to a 3 handsets a year model(low mid high range) or a 2 hanset(low high range) based on what Qualcomm is offering during that year aside from bending to Verizon or sprint(not that they need to since they have lte anyway) aside from high repair rates it wont be as simple as what zune was
  • Things over at MS need to change ASAP! 1. No more carrier exclusives for Windows Phones!  Release them to all carriers. 2. Push the phone updates out faster and bypass slow carrier testing. 3. Train the sales reps to actually offer Windows Phones to customers and not lie about features and apps on the platform. Why is this so hard?
  • I can fathom a couple of reasons for this: 1 - The Nokia L525 isn't widely available yet.
    2 - The Nokia L2520 is nowhere to be seen in Europe or the rest of the World except for 2 countries.
    3 - The announced devices are as niche as you can get: the L1350 and the L1520 with their monstrous screens are most definitely a no-no for many buyers. 4 - and most importantly: the deal with MS. As I've said over and over, people DON'T buy a "Windows Phone". They buy "a Nokia". Well, thanks to the lack of jornalistic accuracy seen accross the web (WPCentral included) and traditional media, the message that got out was "Microsoft buys Nokia".
    You know what that tells people? That Nokia is gone and Microsoft bought them. And you know what? People don't really LIKE Microsoft. We've been over the brand problem of MS over and over again.
    So, obviously, people will avoid buying Nokia phones. Because they feel they're not buying a Nokia anymore, even if the phones currently on the market are still true Nokias. This is also a nice wake-up call for those who believe that people will flock to buy "Surface phones" or "MicroPhones".   As a Nokia fan and an opposer to the stupid deal with MS, I am very happy to see this decline in sales. And I'll be equaly happy to see the sales of WP continue to drop as Nokia slowly moves away from the mobile market. That ought to teach the idiots at Redmond a lesson. And hopefully Microsoft's next CEO won't be a moron like Ballmer and will either whip into shape the WP team (firing slobs like Belfiore and friends would be a good start) or refocus the company in what they're good at: software. Windows and Office. And maybe Xbox.
     
  • Windows mobile has been there since 2003. Now it's windows phone, they got no reason yet to drop the mobile business.
  • Yet, 10 years after and they put out an OS as limited as WP? If anything that should reinforce MS's continued disbelief in their mobile offerings.
  • u are right my friend!!! +920
  • Good reply. 2014 is the year to break or fail on the mobile market for those idiots at Redmond
  • What an idiot hate comment but it says all about the argument and truly there 10 in a dozen of commenters like u. Like parrots saying the same things over and over. u showed for once that some stupid numbers make u feel right now. Enjoy your happy moment while it last hater.
  • Heeeey! My man, DJCBS! I almost wanted to cry when I couldn't find a single of your comments on the first page! Anyway, I guess the "make or break" moment for Windows Phones begins here. We will see the sale either consistently dropping to zero, or steadily climb up and regain its momentum.
  • IMO sales were probably down because there's only one OEM, Nokia in WP and It hasn't updated most of the phones which are more than 6 months old. If there were more OEMs then this update schedule of 12 months would have worked for WP & Nokia. But not in the present scenario.
  • I'm no expert on this, but I really do feel like the vast majority of you all and your lemming, hive-minded mentality is not only dead wrong, but also what is ruining Windows Phone. So many of you think and speak (post) with tunnel vision, it's scary. The UI is the UI, get over it or get something else. They should not adopt anything that anybody else is doing, period. They got away from doing most of that stuff with Windows MOBILE. No need to go back. Those who think they should, really need to go buy other devices and be happy. It has very little, if anything, to do with "slow updates". If you really think that then consider the numbers of older version android and/or ios devices there are out there. Hint, Gingerbread still accounts for over 20% of android devices out there... so yeah, update cycles... riiiiiight. Along with that, consider just how many people are still using their old, beat-to-crap, buggy, laggy devices regardless of whatever new is out now. It's ALL about mind share. And that has less to do with Microsoft or Nokia. The exclusivity with ATT, who is also simultaneously selling their souls to iphones, and android is hurting things in the US. Period. Most people aren't coming to sites like this to find the latest news on smartphones. But they do go into their carrier (that they are chained to). And when they do that, their needs/requirements are often pretty simple... can I text, go online, use facebook? Then they get steered toward whatever device the sales person feels like selling. Now again, I am talking about the AVERAGE buyer... not the "power user". They account for most of the sales, and that is who's driving the numbers up or down. If Microsoft/Nokia can do what HTC and Samsung do and not only put their best devices on all carriers, but also (somehow) convince them to sell the damn devices things will be a lot different. Androids success has NOTHING to do with android, "kit-kat", notification centers, independent volume control, or whatever else BS you all piss and moan about. It's market saturation. You can't go into a carrier store (or kiosk for that matter) without being eye-raped by android stuff. People are convinced to buy it with little to no effort at all. And if a Lumia fails on ATT, then ATT will place the blame squarely on MS's shoulders, not on their own shitty, biased sales people.   Sorry this is so long, but I think there needs to be less crying about what some of you see as "features" that will sell, and do more to get someone other than ATT to sell the best Windows Phones. That is the key. If you all think you can harass, or "shame" Microsoft into giving you BS "features" that will quell your silly fits of app envy, then why not use that energy to try and get Microsoft, and Nokia to put ALL their devices on ALL carriers...?  
  • You're making far too much sense for this discussion.
  • My bad... :-/
  • It's okay. Just include a rant about technical minutiae being the death of WP and pepper it with shots against the MS/Nokia deal and you should fit in. ;-)
  • Gotcha! I'll make those adjustments in my next rant.  :-)
  • Mainly true although there IS a non negligeable "geek" community that is growing and growing everywhere in the world, and those people I meet/work with/chat with everyday AREN'T biased by sales people. So there might be other parameters to take in account, that are definitely in some way linked to the features the OS can/cannot offer (yet). You cannot simply put the smartphone users in two blocks: 1. A big one filled with basics users who just want to facebook 2. A second tiny one made of "power users". This is just untrue, it might have been realistic 5 years ago, but not anymore. I know a bunch of girls talking about jailbreaking their iphone to get rid of itunes synchronization, I have a mother who wants to install her apps on the sd card of the l520 I bought her just like she used to do it on her galaxy s2 so that she can keep memory for her music and videos, etc.. 
  • Facebook app and the outdated people hub both suck on WP, quit saying about that
  • Maybe if Nokia had offered a new WP device in Canada sometime in the last 6 months perhaps we couldv'e helped their sales. The last phone to release here was the 1020 and even that one showed up 2-3 months after everyone else. But honestly, I'm just getting exhausted of complaining about their poor marketing and sales strategies. I tired of venting about how new WP devices don't get sold here in Canada. I'm tired of venting about how the ones we do get hardly see any marketing from carriers. I've already gotten used to being the blacksheep of everywhere I go with my Lumia. People still ask "What kind of phone is that?". "Windows makes phones?". Maybe one day Nokia/MS will start caring and try to become a real contender.
  • Even though I like my Lumia! Its the simple easily sorted things that MS can't. be bothered sorting!
    The music player is terrible its layout is barren and misses many features that where standard in 2007 for example why can't we create or edit playlists on the phone! this is so basic as to beggar belief likewise why can't we just touch the progress bar to get to a particular point on a song instead of long pressing the fwd button and hoping ditto the video player.
    What about the gallery this is the first camera phone that I have ever owned where I cannot at least view some basic info on the photo ie size and date and time.
    And then it gets nonsensical If I move videos from my computer to my phone they end up in Xbox videos but the ones taken with my phone end up in the gallery the ones downloaded via an app eg Metrotube stay within the confines of the app. Which means I have three different places on my phone for videos with no easy way to merge them.
    Like I said some things should be basic and have been Standard within other OS for yearsI
  • I don't think these sales figures are all that disappointing. Windows Phone hardly gets any exposure here in Canada. Releases of new hardware is met with little-to-no announcement. Even Microsoft's "Premium Partner" (Rogers) barely mentions that they carry WPs. Despite that, the Microsoft/Nokia deal was a major story, capturing headlines and airtime. Even if DJCBS is right that there has been misreporting of the specifics of the deal, the idea that Nokia is getting out of the phone production business (for the forseeable future) was widely disseminated. Add the first-party app gap into the mix--and up here it is very real--and you get a pretty bleak picture of the platform. I assume that the hand-wringing about the lack of apps is consistent across countries, as is the idea that Nokia is getting out of the phone business. Given the general aversion that the average consumer has to buying products from companies that won't be around to support that product, I find the sales encouraging. Despite the public perception and despite not releasing a 920-type flagship (straightforward, no gimmicks) or other phone with mass appeal, they still managed to sell a lot of phones. That's good!
  • To propel the OS & handset Microsoft & Nokia have to add file manager,apps to be installed on sd card ,native video calling ,apps like window media player or vlc or real player, line video calling, frung,seen,tango, Vonage, oovoo,and feature like android must have to be developed
  • *epic facepalm*
  • Haha, I feel the same way. Yeah those things will turn sales around :-\
  • The problem with Nokia is that they don't make their devices available all over the world when launched. It is available only in certain places then after sometime in another location, then on another. Some places wont even get other devices. Another problem is their exclusivity to one or two telecom company/ies only. Why don't let it be available to all? The ultimate problem is that, when a new device is announced or launched, it takes forever before it actually sold in the market. My excitement when the Nokia Lumia 1020 was announced has subside to zero long before the 1020 became available. Until now, I don't have the 1020. I am still with my 920 and don't know if I will go with 1520 or wait for the Icon. My money is still kept in my purse.
  • These results should be no surprise with Nokia's aging/lackluster lineup. Nokia needs to bring in a successor for the Lumia 520 instead of just reducing the 520's price... a smartphone that can compete in the important 100 - 150 USD price bracket. The Lumia 520 needs an updated processor. Also, Nokia needs to bring in a new 4.7" to 5" phone to replace the ancient 920 as well. Two new 6" phones and a 520 with added RAM is not going to cut it.
     
  • I partially agree with you. I think there is a market for the 520/5. However if they could get something bumped up a little to compete with the Moto G. The price point on the Moto G is great for what you get.
  • Coming from att 7.8 900
    Finally upgrading to 1520, the first mistake they made was the pricing of the Lumia 1020 was RIDICULOUS!!, the release of ip6,galaxy note 3 and the availability of the Lumia phones to one carrier alone on release dates,I'm talking about USA.. This is expected,the 2014 will be a positive number for msft/nokia..
  • WP7 - you can install apps or OS updates OTA OR simply connecting the phone to computer and launching Zune. WP8 -  you can install apps or OS updates (if they finally reach you) ONLY OTA That's what I call regress.  
  • This was in late 2012, but when I went into a Vodafone shop asking for a Lumia 800 the girl working there started asking me about them. She said she might be buying one for someone and asked me the reasons for buying one and which was the best
  • The problem is that, aside from live tiles (and dat 41MP camera on the Lumia 1020), there are no "must have" features that make Windows Phone stick out head and shoulders above the rest. The problem with "me too" products is that the consumer may as well just buy the product that's being "me too'd."
  • Take, for example, Blockbuster Video. Because they laughed off the business models of Netflix and Redbox, continuing with their antiquated practices, they were left in the dust. Blockbuster then decided to join the DVD-by-mail, kiosk, and streaming parties late with their own "me too" products. Was there a good, consistent reason to use Blockbuster over Netflix, Redbox, Amazon Plus, etc.? Not really. Now look where they are: virtually dead. If Microsoft doesn't -quickly- make Windows Phone clearly and markedly above and beyond iOS and Android, they're going to be the next Blockbuster Video...
  • ...and this raises another point: what was the primary drive behind Windows Phone? It seems like it exists to fix Microsoft problems moreso than consumer problems. The same went for Blockbuster: their kiosks and streaming services were more of a "we have to do this to stay relevant" than a "wouldn't it be neat if we do this--I know a lot of people who would benefit from this".
  • I am not saying that this in not bad news. But it isn't just Nokia having down sales.  Galaxy sales are disappointing too. http://phandroid.com/2013/06/07/samsung-stock-drops-galaxy-s4-sales/ We have to remember that new iPhones came out in the quarter and probably impacted Nokia AND Galaxy sales. My hope is that when there is a major product line refresh, which is sorely needed, that it will stir up interest again.
  • Nokia doesn't sell its handsets on all carriers.   It foolishly provided "exclusives" to particular US carriers, while its competitors like Samsung and Motorola made their handsets available to all the carriers.   I can buy Motorola's high-end handset, the X, for Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, and T-Mobile.  I can buy it unlocked and run it on prepaid carriers like MetroPCS or another MVNO as well.  That represents 100% of the major carrier market.  What Motorola is saying is "we want to sell to EVERY US customer who wants an X, regardless of network."   I can only buy Nokia's high-end handset, the 1520, for AT&T.  I cannot buy it unlocked.  I cannot buy it for a prepaid carrier.  What Nokia is saying is "we want to exclude 70% of Americans and sell only to the small minority of customers willing to sign a new 2-year agreement with just one of the major US carriers."   It's no wonder that sales suck.   Windows Phones are still too hard to buy... Apple, Samsung, Motorola and others make it easy to buy their best handsets on any carrier or arrangement you want.   This must be fixed, and it must be fixed IMMEDIATELY.
  • Exactly! Now, more people need to make THIS their focus. Stop crying over "apps" and blaming Microsoft that dvelopers aren't making whichever "app 'o the month" you're crying about. Stop wasting time trying to "shame" microsoft into adding "features" to make you feel better about your device.  Do whatever is needed, contact whoever will listen, make as many long-winded rants (Hello, Sean D.) as necessary to get them to offer all devices on all carriers. 
  • Yes! Well said!
  • My 2 cents is WP8 works great for me. Absolutely love my 520 on ATT. No major complaints about WP7.5 vs 8.
  • WP as a platform is struggling not only for relevance, but survival. Our marketshare is negligible, and you only have to look at Blackberry to see how one misstep can spell the end. To attract meaningful numbers of consumers from Apple and Android, WP has to offer, AT MINIMUM, a superior product. I love WP8, but frankly, there's no reason for an avg consumer to even consider WP8 until it's obviously better than Android and iOS, and thats simply not the case, and the gap doesnt seem to be narrowing.
  • They do update Windows Phone 8. GDR1, GDR2 and most recently Update 3 (GDR3) and the Lumia Black. My Nokia Lumia 920 (in Sweden) recived all of those. And I guess Windows Phone 8.1 is not so far away.
  • I. Want. Numbers.
    EDIT: 8.2 million. A small decrease in sales. Not horrible but not good either. I'm so sick of this. I feel we give 100% to Nokia and they only give 50% because of Microsoft. Where's my other 50%????
  • And now why hate MS ? The only platform that runs my soft and hardware ...why??  
  • I've been a loyal WP user since the HTC Trophy on Verizon...loved it! I've been so patient waiting for the Lumia 929...will it ever surface(pun intended!) The lack of support for WP just stuns me. I have the Lumia 822 because I couldn't wait for the 928...I almost considered the 928 recently, figuring the 929 won't be released. Funny to me, because the 822 was a great seller for Verizon and what do they do? Pull the 822 after 1 year! Where's the support? I don't get it. I don't want to go to AT&T, but they seem to have a better selection of WPs. What to do? Ideas?
  • It is not surprising. Nokia are really bad at fixing hardware/software issues of the phone.
  • I've been a Nokia dedicated supporter for the good 10 years. When wp7 came out, i dropped Android (donut back then) and moved to the windows camp. After that, it's been wp7.5 win 8, nokia n9 and n8 in between (i told ya, I like my toys). There's been ativ, lumia 800 (thank you microsoft for the free model I won), lumia 900, lumia 920 and perhaps one or two more that i don;t even remember.   Then, BAM- Nexus 5, with polished Android kitkat came out (it was exactly Android jelly bean and other versions that looked like turd that made me switch to wp7) Bought 3 nexus online (sold out in 10 minutes) and sold my last win 8 phone (had black on it, dev unlocked) the next day.   Until Nokia, Microsoft get their shit together, I am back in the Android camp. No more skydrive (gdrive instead), hotmail=>gmail switch, explorer=> chrome browser etc.   Right now, I and my girlfriend are rocking nexus 5 (mine black, hers white), wireless qi charger for our nexus phones (the orbit), Chromecast to watch netflix youtube (which is google btw), ...u got the idea...  
  • Can't say I blame you
  • Good choice. At least you are able to play YouTube videos well and better than on Windows Phone. Because the 3rd party YouTube apps actually has the need to depend on carrier networks! I can't play anything at all once I switched away from my previous provider. What the hell....
  • i'm not quite sure where all the complaints about the OS are coming from.  before WP8 i had an HTC Tilt as my only other Windows Mobile experience.  after that i had a CrackBerry Curve 8900 while everyone had iPhones.  when i saw all the fun people were having with their Android Phones i picked up an HTC Aria then the Inspire, then the One X.  Mindlessly upgrading for no apparent reason and but getting the use out of what i needed from a smartphone.  then  before my vacation last year, i wanted to pick up an iPod Touch-like device.  wanted portability, occasional web-browsing and something that can carry all my music.  was considering an Xperia Walkman (dk if thats what its called) or a Galaxy Player.  this was right when Windows Phone 8 marketing was in full swing.  that's when i picked up my Lumia 620.  for the same price as those two media players, it did the same thing but with the added benefit of having a cellular radio to make calls.  needless to say i was intrigued by the platform.  to the point when i got back from vacation and just left the One X at home.  fast forward a year, i sold the One X on ebay and picked up a used Lumia 920 for my "daily." with every passing month, the app-gap is becoming thinner and thinner.  there is absolutely nothing that i miss from convoluted Android and its wire-frame drag-and-drop homescreens.  i don't care for a central notification center.  I get the point of Live Tiles and Toasts.  WP8 is geared for people who aren't glued to their phones constantly checking for notifications.  to me, it's for people that get shit done and love the minimalist approach to the GUI. Having said all that,  except for a couple apps that i keep my fingers crossed for, i can't think of a single thing that i could want MORE from my Windows Phone.  i've completely removed myself from the Google Diaspora/Zeitgest whatever-you-wanna-call-it and i'm not looking back... except to keep in touch with friends on Hangouts. ...and YouTube. freakin YouTube. =)
  •   Two things that I think really hurt Lumia device sales were the two largest cell phone providers in North America (AT&T and Verizon). First, AT&T releases the latest flagship (1520) but does everything in its power to undermine it by removing the wireless charging and only giving it half the storage space of international version and then Verizon simply puts their flagship model (929/Icon) in limbo and causes it to miss the biggest shopping season of the year. Sprint and T-Mobile didn't really help matters with Sprint releasing two phones that are essentially last year's models and I don't think T-Mobile released a new WP8 in the fourth quarter.
  • I don't know about other countries, but in Australia, I believe the state of retail displays must have a part to play in poor retail sales. What I mean is - if you visit a shop and it has a device not working properly, then it is, more often than not, a Windows device - phone, tablet or notebook. Too often, I see a sample windows phone not operative due to a corrupted system or a broken charger cord. Same applies to Microsoft Surface Displays - with demonstration models often stuck in a system restore loop. This must be a turn off to prospective buyers. On the other hand, Samsung Android stands are well maintained and dominate the display space. So it is logical that buyers are drawn to the pretty display with demonstration devices that work. In my view, the various windows device suppliers (Nokia, MS) need to pick up their game in relation to retailer support.   
  • this is what happen when they move too slow.
  • People love to tinker their phone. MS should give users more freedom to customize their WP. WP8 is moving in the right direction. By giving developers to access lock screen has been a success. Recent access to volume has given birth to profile apps like quiet hours. How about more access to skin the launcher/live tiles? Would be best if developers are allowed to access the home button and create alternative launchers. Or ability to add additional pages to the default launcher for notifications/plugins?
  • Thumbs up!