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Do Windows Phone users need to become as haughty as Apple fans to win the battle?

You've seen the proclamations: "Windows Phone is doomed." "…a distant third." "No chance to catch up." Anyone who follows technology sites these days, especially the mainstream US-based ones, have seen those quotes used in news articles and often even in comments. It reflects the slow, but middling growth of Windows Phone, which has never taken off in the US, hovering at just 4% (Kantar, August 2014).

Sure, worldwide Windows Phone fares better, with Italy at 13% and the UK nearly at 10%, but I am not here to sugarcoat the stats. They speak for themselves, and I am not taking issue here with their accuracy or what they mean.

I am more interested in perception, the way people talk about these things because although Windows Phone market share is comparatively small, it says nothing of user satisfaction, which consistently ranks very high, if not the highest, amongst all the operating systems. Although not many people are using Windows Phone, comparatively, those who do are enjoying the experience, both for hardware and software. That is something not easily dismissed. Now, if Microsoft had little market share and the users hated the devices and the OS experience that I think would be worthy of media Schadenfreude, but I digress.

Apple users react to lower market numbers

One of the more interesting stories in 2014 is Android's continued dominance in the smartphone world, which is undeniable at nearly 80%, according to a recent IDC report. Android is doing so well, especially in emerging markets that it is eating into Apple's share, which IDC thinks will drop from 14.9% in 2014 to 13.7% in 2018 (IDC predicts Windows Phone to almost double in the same time to a still low 6.4%). This prediction is hardly "the sky is falling" but still, the once mighty iPhone is slowly becoming – wait for it – a distant second to Android.

Why do I bring this up? Perception, the way people talk about things.

I came across an old article on MacDailyNews reacting to those IDC numbers. In it, I found the single most arrogant, pretentious, and elitist reaction to Android's continued growth, and Apple's decline:

"Apple does not chase market share. Apple develops world-class products that delight users. One Apple customer is worth more than a gaggle of those who settle for poor imitations of Apple products." – MacDailyNews, 5/28/2014


Evidently, market share is not significant to Apple. Therefore, if you were to offer Apple's CEO Tim Cook 15% of the smartphone market or 40%, he would shrug his shoulders in indifference. That is awesome. Now, in fairness, Apple does make an enormous amount of money off that 15% market and apparently, after the media fawning this week at the iPhone 6 reveal, they still have the US media licking their boots.

Nevertheless, remember, I am less interested in what Apple wants versus perception, the way people react.

Did you see how MacDailyNews turned a slowly losing battle against Android into a win for them? It does not matter what the market numbers are because Apple does not "chase market share." Instead, they make "world-class products that delight users" and "One Apple customer is worth more than a gaggle" of Android fans.

That, my friends, is some hubris. Mind you, this is not a defense only for the iPhone. Even after years of successful MacBook sales, OS X still only commands around 8% of the PC market (NetMarketShare, 2014), and there too you hear the same rhetoric: "market share does not matter; Apple products are just better."

(Mind you, I am not saying all Apple users think or feel this way, far from it, and I don't mean to demean Apple, whom I think make excellent products. But that attitude expressed above is the stereotype that I feel often applies, at least when discussing the age old debate "which is better?", to some of the most adherent Apple fans. Maybe I am wrong, but this is all besides the point.)

This leads me to…

Windows Phone users need to adopt this strategy

If you noticed above, I called the quote from MacDailyNews "the single most arrogant, pretentious, and elitist reaction." I stand by that, but I also see the genius in it. It's fine, my brain can handle the cognitive dissonance.

However, if Apple users can take that position, why not Windows Phone users?

I am not necessarily calling for a grassroots movement here, but it would be tongue-in-cheek enjoyable to see the following in comments for news articles on Windows Phones. You know, the kind where the reviewer begrudgingly enjoys the evaluation Windows Phone unit but bemoans the app-gap and market share, telling users to pass. Just imagine seeing this as a reaction:

"Microsoft does not chase market share. Microsoft develops world-class products that delight users. One Microsoft customer is worth more than a gaggle of those who settle for poor imitations of Microsoft products."

Is it ridiculous? Absolutely. However, in many ways, it does reflect how Windows Phone users feel about their experience, and if Apple fans can use the strategy to defend low-performing market share, I see no reason those with a Windows Phone cannot say the same in response. Moreover, I mean, it is somewhat funny to turn the tables, no?

Don't worry though, you do not have to buy a turtleneck sweater now or shop at Whole Foods Market.

Daniel Rubino is the Executive Editor of Windows Central, head reviewer, podcast co-host, and analyst. He has been covering Microsoft here since 2007, back when this site was called WMExperts (and later Windows Phone Central). His interests include Windows, Microsoft Surface, laptops, next-gen computing, and arguing with people on the internet.

  • Please keep in mind, this is an editorial that I am having some fun with. There is a point here, but let's not take it too seriously ;) Now, discuss!
  • I am calling for grassroots! Let's do this! haha. Good read :)
  • grassroots?! AHOO! AHOO! AHOO!
  • AHUUUUUULULULULULULULUL... grassroots here!
  • The last thing I want to do is imitate the insecurity-disguised-as-arrogance attitude of iPhone users! They're annoying. Part of the reason Samsung has done so well is because they mocked the iSheep. The best way to pass iOS is for Microsoft to keep making great phones and to not give up.  In spite of the market share, I absolutely LOVE Windows Phone... and I love this website.  The genuine enthusiasm of the commenters and writers at WPCentral is award enough. I'd rather be the good-natured underdog in this contest, then a pretentious fop! :)
  • Thank you for saying what I wanted to say so early in the comments. Now I can relax and enjoy the rest of the comments without looking for a place to add my two cents. :)
  • I think your comment sums it up the best
  • WP users are part the biggest problem with the platform. There are many WP users , you guys come and comment here within the sanctity of this site but you don't go and make the change where it matters, you guys don't organize online and go after carriers like ATT, Verizon, T-mobile, Sprint, you don't call them out on their employees bias towards WP. You don't organize a petition and go after Google and other app developers who are withholding their apps from the platform, you don't call out the tech media for their institutionalized bias against WP. You guys just complain. So many WP users online who can organize and form a movement for change. You guys prefer to stay quiet and express your feelings here not where it truly matters.
  • If what they release next year is truly worth crowing about, I'm talking about actual uniform integration across the spectrum of MS products, I predict that people will become bolder in their proclamations about their platform. BTW, I think Daniel spends more time pointing out flaws than backers of other platforms do. And that last line of the article made me look at his photo. A turtleneck is mild in comparison.
  • Mild in comparison, indeed! +1
  • You have a few points. Let me just say that ATT users really got frustrated and gave ATT a bit if not alot of headache, they kept on pressuring them for Cyan update on twitter (while we along with many parts of the world got it)
    Petition wise, you should help us especially if you have the know how, im sure there are things we as users can work out too.
  • Dear sir, what about user voice... I think it is the best place to say or demand, when the entire list on user voice is cleaned as an implementation (feature suggestions that are available worth other is) we will fight for every bit of our windows phone devices (though I still do that)... More polish needed on WP...
  • I agree to an extent. I wouldn't say that WP users complain but I do think that we should make our voices heard where it matters. For example: I was recently looking to open a new bank account in the UK. One of my first bank qualifying questions was: "Do you have a mobile banking app for Windows Phone" no?, Thank you. I'll go somewhere else. Another example: Vodafone UK offered me a really good tariff upgrade (which I accepted). They then called me with their usual follow-up, asking-for-feedback automated call. Towards the end of the call, I heard the following: "In your own words, can you explain why you rated us the way you did and what is it that we can do to improve" My answer: "Release a Vodafone app for Windows Phone like the one available from o2".   I guess the conclusion here is: be a proud WP user and don't shy away from talking about it just because you're outnumbered by iSheep and LagDroids.
  • That's what I did! A few months ago, I was shopping for security company, time warner, AT&T, or Protect America which the advertised claimed compatible with smart phone.  When I asked the company if they have apps for window phone, they said no.  I know of one called "Vivint" and they have apps for Window phone and it worked great.  I told those other company when I showed interest but refuse to close the deal because of the only reason that "Vivint" has window phone apps.  I got a serious kick all the time.
  • I agree with you dude! People blame Microsoft and Nokia for not having clash of clans in there phone. I laugh all night by reading hidious comments made on Nokia India facebook page. We really need to change peoples mind on the OS and Microsoft should also make things better like the Music Hub earlier was great, the new app is also good but not upto the grade of old hub. WP is the platform which is developing faster and faster day by day. That's why I check this site 20 times a day. I love this site and the OS.
  • Indians buying cheap lagdroids are dumb. Indians buying Lumias, not reading WPCentral and commenting on Nokia India Facebook page are Dumber.
  • I played the copied "space version" (forgot the official name). I stopped playing because one I got bored, two it was way too easy, three it's a ridiculous time waster. People in my school whip their androids and iphones so they could check their status and such..... Don't fall for the trap!
  • Not exactly true, I contacted many developers over a year before I hopped over to Windows Phone [fitbit, credit card, library, social media apps], because I want to see the platform I use succeed. Most respond saying they have something in the works, but no date as of yet. Even if I don't use a major app, i make sure to download it so they know I appricate it when I see such thing. I was at a VZ store recently, I had pitched a WP to the rep who was given one to use for work [selling my android phone to someone else], they were quite impressed. As the article says perhaps more people just need to take the same attitude as iPhone users.
  • Actually, I do get on the tech media's cases.  And I do the other stuff as time allows.   But very good point.  We are a passive lot, in general. Uh oh, I hear Twisted Sister coming from somewhere.
  • Anyone who resonates with this, check out WP-bashing articles/journalists -Preston Gralla would make a good starting point- and let yourselves be heard. People over there actually think WP should die (literal quote).
  • 1) A lot of those customer service reps are paid a very low base salary + commission on sales. They are under pressure to sell phones that sell well. No matter what the WP community says to those incompetent idiots, nothing will ever get done. On top of selling bias, you have personal bias. Even if an agent was trained and motivated to sell Windows Phone they would always throw their 2 cents in and talk about how great iOS/Android is.    2) Google does not support the Windows Phone platform not because its a limited market but strictly because they want them to code the app in HTML5. Microsoft stated that while it is possible to develop in HTML5, the app would not have full access to the underlying APIs in Windows Phone. In addition all Windows Phone apps have to conform to a design langauge (aka Metro) which the HTML5 app just couldnt do. Microsoft and Google could never come to an agreement and has thus why there is literally no support outside of lesser powerful 3rd party apps that are really nothing more than specialized web wrappers for google web services.    3) Regarding the carriers not supporting Windows Phone - The OS updates are controlled by them. You cannot blame the Windows Phone community at all. Verizon for example refuses to update the Lumia Icon to Cyan strictly because it doesn't work perfectly with their retarded proprietary apps.    4) I have ripped the tech industry apart on several occasions for their lack of knowledge/support on Windows Phone most recently Tom Warren and his pathetic attempt at convincing the community he was a daily WP user. When I presented a ton of evidence suggesting his love relationship toward iPhone, they banned me on The Verge LMAO.     
  • I would love to do something like this. I'm tired of the bias opinions against Windows Phone. But to a point I can't get hardly anybody to switch to a Windows Phone because of the fact that there aren't as many Official Apps to places, social networks or companies that come on Android or iOS devices. So it's kind of hard to win them over. I've tried everything I could. Even going after these companies for stuff like this, it's still not going to change their opinions on switching until all of these Companies give in and start making Windows Phone apps. Unless you have tips for me to help win them over, that would be great too.
  • I think the best way to pass iOS is by being more like Samsung, than Apple. No more unibody phones; they emit a foul stench-like ulterior motive of one being pushed into Cloud Services (16gig iPhone 6? Really?).  In addtion to the already awesome features of the Lumia line (Glance, Camera, etc), make sure the flagship phones copy two important featues of Samsung's devices.  Give users the flexibility of expandable memory and replaceable battery.    This article does make a great point, though.  Think about how close "The Fappening" was to iPhone 6 announcement.  I thought for sure Apple was going to take some significant un-timely heat (kind of like xbox one's dlc and always on kinect blunders), but noone seemed to care anymore.  They just moved on as if it never happened.
  • The average user doesn't give a hoot about replaceable batteries; they do like nice designs, though, and a unibody certainly has better design potential...!
    And the 1520 has expandable memory.
  • I really wish my L925 had an additional memory slot - this is why I even considered for a while to switch to L830. battery is not that important bcs I think I will replace the phone faster than battery becomes less efficient dual sim - the 2nd great selling point for me. I have my private and work phone - I would like to have it as ONE device.  
  • Fappening - a new addition to my limited vocabulary! That was hilarious :D
  • I think you nailed it and I do agree with you.
  • Well said, man. Excellent post.
  • Very true.....
  • We are not haughty but we are proud.  People going with WP genuinely like the OS based on the LIve Tiles.  Otherwise, they are already iPhone owners.  Going with WP is more than just buying a phone.  It is a strategic move that users can appreciate the seamless syncing across entire Windows platforms.   You operate everything around you with ONE experience.  WP is simple, fluid and solid.  It is growing in harmony with Windows PC.  As long as Windows can retain its 90% OS market share domination, WP can only go up over time.  When the Universal app movement is in full force, the app development will be greatly accelerated.   I didn't see anything earth shaking with iPhone 6.  They are playing catch-up with larger size displays.  So that's what their fans are getting haughty about.  :-)
  • I was amused at another site where android users were trolling Applers about catching up/copying with the new larger size. An iPhone fan actually replied that they were not following Android to a larger phone, they were providing phone capabilities to a smaller iPad. In fact,larger Android phones were only a response to the success of the iPads. Really.
  • There are some speculations that iPhone 6 Plus could potentially impact the sales of iPad Mini. 
  • Preach! Posted via the Windows Phone Central App for Android
  • Okay perhaps they are feeling insecure, however there is no denying that Apple does make
    premium products (which is why consumers stay) how is that so? Look at them staying or 
    going head over heels about the newly launched iPhone 6 with NFC(which is at least 2 years late)
    They make their own processors and their ecosystem although might get boring at times is in 
    my opinion is stable, eg: multitasking even on only 1GB of RAM. Android might strugle at even 2GBs.
    Windows so far gives a resuming screen (which is okay considering that there are bugs here and there and apps need to be optimised. We are growing. I do hope we make it too. We have the pottential 
    eg: look at the Lumia 920, destroying it took quite a bit of work (put aside how other users have broken it by just droping it on the floor) 
  • +1 for Cybersaurus Rex. You are my favourite species of dinosaur.
  • 2nd
  • Great response, it's exactly what all WP users think,eat,sleep and breathe each day we LOOK at OUR devices!!!!
  • I jumped on Samsung bandwagon and calling iPhone "Wall Hugger".  Most ppl realized it and laugh it off, the rest have no clue what that means.
  • Lovely, I have no more to add other than I am very proud of my phone, the company that make it and the man that founded it...The one and only, Mr. Gate. When you look at the two companies and how each man led their path, who you rather follow...Bill Gate or Steve Job. Look all what Mr. Gate is doing humanity and well, what do you know Job did. Job didn't even gave an apple a day to humanity to easy its struggle if our goal as human is to leave this world better than how we found it.
  • First of all, it's Gates. Jobs is dead. Can't really say what we would have done had he left his company for other persuits. Nothing against Gates, but in his time at MS, he was as business oriented as Jobs was. Gates had a bit more freedom as MS was on the top. Jobs was dragging a company that had nearly disappeared back to what it is today. I have enormous respect for what each accomplished, but have no delusions that either did it to further humanity. What Gates is doing now with the Foundation is amazing, but has little to do with WP.
  • The other thing you missed is Nokia. Most of designs on WP are great because of Nokia. When MS and Nokia Merged, Nokia took up the work for making the platform awesome by bringing in photography, mapping, navigation, market research, manufacturing etc... into the platform. I would go further to say, if not for Nokia windows phone would have not seen the success (still getting there) it has today.
  • Can't argue with that at all. I did like my HTC devices, but they didn't have the breadth or backing of Nokia's devices. Hopefully MS can keep moving forward. I'm not really crazy about the concept, and option, of recycling an Android device with a WP soul. The M8 does make a nice device, and does highlight the efficiency of WP OS over Android. I just can't reconcile it's pedigree. That's a personal problem. Hopefully it does well. Might prompt others to try something. Imagine a Note 4 with WP on it, with working pen in OneNote, and Qi. I can get a Qi back for a Note (again, damn you AT&T)
  • I would say exactly the same. Great comment :^)
  • You picked my brain in my sleep? Agree to all you've said! 
  • Concordo Plenamente!
  • That was a good read Daniel. Thanks. ;)
  • Ireland has now a 10% market share with WP but continued bad press, negativity by media doesn't help, also forced sale of Samsung/Apple is another problem here, WP has doubled it's market share here within 18 months it's growing.
  • Well, UK is similar in market share to Ireland and I think it is hitting a kind of critical mass. I've just come back from the pub and loads of people were waving around their WPs and extolling their virtues. The Apple guy looked a bit sick (he was rather pissed though). I have just been using my Toshiba Encore tablet to run an incident room (needs must when business hardware fails) and had people asking about it and wanting to get one. Seriously, we don't need to 'chase market share' or evangelise. WPs will explode once they hit the right numbers, and I'm guessing it's not far off the 10% mark. US have always been a bit slow to catch up in the mobile phone arena. Look how long it took for mobile phones to become popular at all over there. When we were all getting Nokias in the 80s and early 90s the US was just not on the scene. It'll change.
  • Lol I like your point but there's this one thing, americans been using cell phones around those same times.
  • I like your point.  The difference is that in the US the carriers dictate which phones and what features can be on a phone.  Ex: (No Qi charging on the 1520 on AT&T).  I would much rather buy the phone from the manufacturer and then shop my phone plan from the carriers.  Too much concentrated power at the cell companies and congress is making it worse.  I love the windows phone platform and really pissed that I am not able to get the version of the 930 on att. 
  • I agree!! Still not one single banking app and yet you have the likes of Barclay's Bank releasing their second or third app for WP8!! Contacted AIB over 2 years ago, and still nothing!!! I love my Samsung Ativ S with WP8 but cant wait for my next windows phone and next OS release!! Great to hear it's growing in Ireland but to have any significance, it needs to grow like this worldwide!! I truly home it will!
  • Even in Malaysia, during the announcement of any new Micrsoft Device (Lumia 830, 730, 735), the media didn't even care to introduce it. However, during the announcement of the iPhone 6, 6 Plus and Apple Watch, it was all the buzz on the media... And my friends and family
  • There is no such thing as a phablet anymore... Its a BIGger phone, or a small tablet. !!!
  • I vote to keep phablet alive... Isn Asus working on a 10 inch?
  • In south Africa, the biggest problem is the Nokia reps. Great example was when I went with my sister for an upgrade. The MTN store that we visited had both a Samsung rep and a Nokia rep trying to sell their brand. But to my surprise, the Nokia rep was more occupied with trying to sell the new 630 then comparing what she had in her hand ( which was a lumia 820) to something new. The Samsung rep tried to convince her to get a new S5 instead of the Lumia 1520, I had to argue about perception and how windows phone is a far better platform. For nearly an hour the Samsung rep and i argued. Well the point is the Nokia rep was really not interest in getting great phones to the people, that day I sold two Lumia 520's and a 1320 and of obviously the Lumia 1520 to my sister. Most of those customers were going to take Samsung phones
  • ^^^ this...
  • Microsoft need to make a flagship phone!!!! Stop flooding the market with repeated phones!!
    And for God's sake ..stop using numbers to name the phones ...its damn confusing.... Btw I'm windows phone user
  • They absolutely need a flagship phone. I'm sitting on my 1020 waiting to upgrade and right now the iPhone 6 and Sony Xperia Z3 Compact look mighty good. Sure being confident and proud would be nice, but first I need a regular stream of devices that back up my hubris.  The 1020 was that. Since then we've seen the 1520 (which was good, but not my thing) and nothing.  The 930 is great, but not enough imo. The M8 is another good phone, but comes out just in time to see rumors of an Android M9, the iPhone 6 and the new Notes from Samsung.  I need another ground breaker that I can carry. MS needs to have one out every year at minimum. When that happens I'll carry my Windows phone and brag and brag and brag isntead of looking at the competition and considering it.
  • That's another problem.. People not being patient. Microsoft needs to do this,Microsoft needs to do that. The iPhone is starting to look mighty tempting.. IPhone users have been mostly loyal for years. It took Apple years to from 3.5 to 4 inches,yet though they may have lost some. The vast majority of their users remained put. You'll see millions of them soaking up the new iPhones do to pinned up frustration. Besides.. Why the hell would you want to go backwards? There's nothing really "high end" about the new iPhones that you haven't been able to get on a Windows Phone. Even when compared to most Android phones,it's the same case mostly. Yes Microsoft needs a new flagship in some ways. Personally the 1520 is plenty flagship for maybe not everyone. However it will come soon enough.
  • We have been patient. Microsoft or another OEM needs to get their shit together and make something that isn't low/mid range bullshit. The 1020 needs a successor in the baddest way possible.
  • The 1520,Icon/930 are far from low/mid range bullshit! There above the iPhone 6 in just about every way,and above,even,or slightly less (spec wise) high end Android phones. Just because they may not be what you want,doesn't make them less of a high end device. The phone like the 1020 doesn't just happen overnight. So if they're going to take the next version to new heights I'd rather them get it right! I'd love to see it too.. BTW the One M8 for Windows isn't nowhere near low/midrange buddy..
  • Too bad nobody can get these things. I'm on Sprint and they have had the same TWO crappy Windows Phones for a year now and are the only ones that haven't said anything about the M8 for Windows. The reason Android is doing so well is because they flooded the market with cheap phones and after people started buying them, they realized it was just as good as the iPhone. WP will never take off sitting in the back room of carrier stores. A few years ago, you walked into a store and saw one iPhone and a whole row of Androids and people wonder why it got so popular.
  • I can't do nothing but agree with you there. When Microsoft comes out with the next version of the 1020 needs to be on EVERY carrier simultaneously or very close. From AT&T,T-Mobile,Sprint,Verizon,Virgin Mobile,Cricket,Boost Mobile. Basically just like the Galaxy S5. That will get Windows Phone market share to dramatically increase. They also should do the 830 the same way,along with the 730/35. Along with the other phones from other manufacturers will get stream rolling!
  • Hopefully they don't play the ATT exclusive bull again. There is a reason why people didn't know the 1020 existed. Out of the 4 major US carriers, one was privileged to have it. All new Windows Phones need to be released to all 4 major carriers simultaneously and then also made available to the smaller ones. They want market share but Nokia was playing favorites with carriers instead if making a Windows Phone and releasing it to everyone. If a carrier wants a custom one, let them but don't screw consumers and force them to one carrier.
  • I wonder how much that exclusivity was a result of Nokia not having any leverage because of their financial situation. Microsoft is in a much better position to beat the carrier exclusivity. They just need to push the issue.
  • Yes, ^
  • They did a good job with Lumia 920 and 925 on major US carriers but then the Lumia Icon (Lumia 930) got stuck on Verizon. That is going backward.
  • The problem with Microsoft going against carrier exclusives is that carriers are willing to contribute extra marketing dollars to a phone that's an exclusive, so it's a double-edged sword.
  • Definitely they are mid range but where is the SD card support or if not where is the 64 GB option. MS is trying to be the best in camera tech give much importance to their games, music and video apps but where is the storage capacity to support it. 1520 is just too big. Many I have considered it but always didn't wanted to buy because of the size. So yes MS needs a complete phone, a flagship, a slim and sexy one too
  • Just upgraded from L1020 to 930. Was nervous as i loved the 1020 but after a year i had worn it out the power button was starting to fail. Love the 930 so much FASTER at everything including Skype. Loving the new phone, this is my 6th Windows Phone
  • 1520 is phablet, not flagship. 930 is top-end but missing microSD and therefore laughable as a flagship - high-end, yes; flagship, no. These days a flagship needs to have ALL the features, microSD, IR blaster, great camera etc. You can't have a flagship missing basic features because 1) WP is not Apple (they don't mind missing features) and 2) we need to wow the shit out of everyone not just shrug and repeatedly say "no, it doesn't have that", "no, we can't do that"
  • Well that just sounds stupid. The 1520 is very much so a flagship phone. Just because you don't like it,doesn't make it any less of a flagship phone. The 830 is a flagship compared to the iPhone 6. We need more informed and educated buyers,we don't have to be Apple.
  • 1520 is a phablet, and it's a flagship. Heck for me, its a freakin' REVELATION. Absolutely the best phone I've ever used.
  • I agree that it's a flagship phablet. But we want flagship top-end mobiles i.e. flagship 900 series & flagship 1000 series.
  • I don't consider phablets to even be in the same realm as high-end / flagship phones - we might as well say the 2520 is the "true flagship" if we're just going to pick any old product range. IMO "flagships" should be the best in their field (not ALL fields), and basically be desirable to anyone if they had the money to spend. There is no way I would ever use a phablet as a phone - I can see myself using it on the couch at home, but never lugging it around in my pocket or using it in public to be laughed at (just look at anyone holding a phablet to their head, it's hilarious!). It's true that phablets have great specs, but their ridiculous screen-size means their desirability will remain as niche-appeal only. Side note: It is rather amusing how well the mid-range 830 stacks up against the iPhone 6! :)
  • I think it looks weirder someone holding a tiny phone you can't even see in their hands to their ear, but hey opinions and all that. The 1520 is almost perfect. The only issue is the sensitive touch screen, they release a 1525 exactly the same without that problem and I would drop another 750 on it in a heartbeat. And keep it until it died, the phone is, imo, perfect. I don't even have big hands (Scottish ancestry means stubby fingers) and yet it feels right. Everything else is too small.
  • Opinions count, and the vast majority of devices are non-phablets. We need flagship models that appeal to the masses, not the niche-markets that like to carry bricks in their pockets ;) I've tried the 1520 and while it was a very nice device, it looked and felt stupidly-sized. I have long fingers, so it wasn't about reachability, but it was about having a tombstone in my pocket. I could only ever use it if kept it in a jacket pocket (not so great with Summer 2 months away) and with a bluetooth headset - but those headset guys look even more douchey that the people holding up comedy-sized phones to their face :P :P
  • I don't know man, with the popularity in the Galaxy Note series and phones getting larger in general, I would say phablets are definitely more than a niche market. Don't get me wrong, I don't think I could use a 1520 (prefer something 5" or less as my 1020 is 4.5"), but I have to admit people like their big phones.
  • My 152 is a heck of a flagship phone! It looks stupid when people are holding a device so small up to their head. Trying to keep it from slipping out.
  • "Side note: It is rather amusing how well the mid-range 830 stacks up against the iPhone 6! :)" You said it yourself. Look at the 930/Icon as well. So what makes a 'flagship' phone? The price? How recently it was released? The incorporation of every top end feature/spec that is current, resolution, processor speed, memory? Camera quality? I assume everyone would agree that the iPhone 6 and 6+ are flagships. Their specs are eclipsed by numerous models by numerous vendors that have been out for some time. With Apple you only have the option of buying 'flagships', at flagship prices. In Android, IMHO, the flagships highlight the capability of the OS and OEM, but they are not their best sellers. Same is true of WP. The difference is the 'flagship' features in WP can be had at mid range prices. Maybe that tends to devalue the brand some. "If I can get that on an 830, maybe it isn't that desireable." I would like a 1030, if that means a lighter 1020 with a faster processor, more RAM, more storage and/or an SD slot, with Qi (damn you AT&T), and that same or slightly improved 41Mp camera. I expect that might not be a big seller though, in the markets that are snapping up $70 no contract phones, pushing the market share into a position devlopers take notice.
  • I guess "flagship" products are those with the highest specs from the Manufacturer in that product category. I'd take that 1020 successor that you speak of please. :)
  • I agree with your statements. WP needs to stop the carrier exclusive crap though, that way At&t users could have a 5" flagship option.
  • You nailed it, irvin! For all of T-Mobile's great data plans, they condescendingly throw an occasional low-end crumb of a WP phone out once in a while (although I give them credit for at least issuing the 925) - 920, 1020, etc - all ATT. That said, I am ecstatic over HTC being on the list for T-Mobile. Aside from the camera, the rest of the phone looks fantastic. As much as I love Nokia and MS, I am glad to see HTC giving them a run for their money. Maybe that competition will spur some good development..
  • The problem is many people, like myself love WP (Read Lumias) for the cameras. I had a 920, wanted a 1020, but wanted the processor upgrade, everyone in my boat is waiting for a 1020 with up to date specs. (I have a 1520 right now but I am dying for a 1030 to be released) I think many people are waiting for that. MS should really play on the camera side of the phones, the Lumia brand already has the mind share of the best in class with cameras, keep pushing that Microsoft.
  • I agree with that no doubt. I want it also. For me it was between the 1020 or 1520 to replace my 920. I wanted a bigger phone with better specs and a badass camera so I went with the 1520. I am definitely looking forward to the 1020's successor.
  • I wish Lumia camera had all the modes built in (cinemagraph, panorama, foundbite, ect.) like the camera on the Note 3. I hate having to have such a long ass app list, or give us options for folders in the app list
  • I use lenses in the camera app, and the folder option on the Start Screen for that sort of thing. You have to select what you want to do somehow. I agree the app list isn't the best way, but those others are alternatives for a lot of it. I've always thought it would be nice to allow changing an apps name/title, so it would sort the way I wanted. My N section is rediculous, Nokia everything. Thank goodness soon it will all be Lumia everything ;)
  • Seems you have a problem mate ! Sleep over it,!
  • Be patient. Still I don't think iPhone 6 is better even than 830. The true is that iPhone was a crap device for long time and now they are just launching a device that we have plenty in the market. The only difference is that apple users are loyal is the hardest way possible. I don't get it... Apple launch some features like image stabilization that was launch by Nokia in 2012
  • Ahh yes but Apple won the marketing battle.
  • True that (about the marketing battle), but then again there's a lot of apple customers as arrogant, and pretentious (much like their god, apple), and with an 'elitist' attitude they wouldn't get anything else. Not because their device is better or works floorlessly but they know how much ridicule they would receive by their 'perceived peers' because they would now be out of the 'cult' of apple. If you've studied cults you'd see there is one right under that fruit symbol. I've been involved in IT for 3 decades and it's funny watching people trying to decide what phone they want to use. Really, the only reason that iphone has the share it has is because celebrities jumped on board. I'm happy to be a windows phone user. And I'm pleased microsoft is not up themselves like apple is. So now, can we get off the apple thread and get back to Windows Phones and bits?  
  • Yeah,but Nokia was going bankrupt and Apple not.
  • HTC one m8 windows is a flag ship phone it don't matter if it is exclusive or not it a flagship phone exclusively don't make a phone a flagship specs do and it has the specs and don't worry in a few months its coming to att and tmobile so it will get there or buy it straight out and have it unlocked to work for your carrier of choice
  • It's too late for soon enough. It's already been over a year. I have two lines, one is a 1520 the other was a 1020 which I broke. I thought it was insured, but it wasn't. I've been waiting since May for the 1020 replacement, but I'm going to get an iPhone 6 Plus. MS could've kept me a double WP customer, but now they're going to miss a sale. I guess I'll wait to replace my 1520 with a 1030... if it ever comes.
  • and you would just be downgrading then. Why the iphone 6 Plus? can't you think of other Android phones that are so much better?
  • I actually bought an android phone and played with it for about a month then sold it on ebay. Just didn't like the UI and pther aspects.
  • Hey asphaltpotato, totally off topic, but I have to ask where you got your user name... That's the name of an animated character I've had kicking around for a long time. :)
  • haha, just a mix of something from my early teens and what sounds like my surname. Animated character eh? what type?
  • Name them ?
  • That doesnt make any sense. If you are willing to get another big screen device, you could just buy another 1520.  It still take better pictures than iPhone 6 plus and its a high end device AND it would keep you in the same ecosystem. Now if you are willing to get a phone that is not part of your ecosystem just because its the new kid on the block then you were never a good WP customer anyways... probably the double WP you had was a matter of luck, maybe they were the new devices when you felt the urge to buy another phone just to empty your pocket! If i had to replace my 1020 today, i would still go fot the 1520. almost half the price, better picures, bigger screen, way better batery life, works better with my other devices, a bit slower but if i want speed i go to my desktop anyways.
  • +1520
  • +1520, a phone is a phone is a phone... Stop using the term phablet, sounds queer, and there is no other Lumia that offers a comprehensive package as the 1520, the real FLAGSHIP!
  • I've been on WP since the HTC Surround, then the Samsung Focus, HTC Titan, Lumia 900, 920, 1020 and 1520. It's no avcident. I'd get the iPhone for fitness apps and the watch. I bike 100-150 miles a week and the best cycling app that uploads to Strava is Cyclometer, but I have issues with it stopping in the middle of rides and I lose miles. My wife has the 5s so I also get app jealousy. I figure one of each and I'll have the best of both worlds.
  • I like Cyclometer too but have had the same problem with it crashing and loosing miles too, never a whole ride but several miles.
  • Yes, it gets very annoying. I dont know if it's the app or a problem with the way WP handles apps running in the background or under lock screen. At the very least they could make it announce when it pauses the ride so we'd have an indication that it stopped tracking.
  • Have you sent feedback to the developer?
  • What's wrong with just buying another 1020? You still get the best camera in a smartphone, and still enjoying the bulk of the WP updates.And it's cheaper than the iPhone 6.
  • Exactly!
  • Well I'm sorry but that would just be a dumb thing to do. Why would you go get an iPhone 6 Plus when you come just get another 1520? You'd do better getting a One for Windows, but let me guess. The camera is inferior right? Well so will most likely be the case with the iPhone 6. Smh..
  • I think by this point, we really strayed off topic regarding Daniel's questions...
  • Agreed.
  • Or like I said I'll replace the 1520 with the 1030.. why buy a 1020 when a replacement will eventually (hopefully) be here? I'll have my big screen with the iphone 6 plus and a camera with the Lumia. As much as I love the 1020 it really needs better processing and a micro SD card. It got old having to dump my photos every hour when I went out on photo shoots, and the time between shots was too long.
  • Still doesn't make much sense to me,but to each his or her own. Don't see what the iPhone 6 Plus has over the 1520 unless you're that concerned with apps. Being that you've had 6 Windows Phones I'd guess that wouldn't be the case..
  • The articleI read said there is no 32 gig iPhone 6 and I don't think iPhones will ever have micro SD. It's a BIG price jump from 16 to 64 Gig.
  • It's funny you complain that Microsoft don't release phones fast enough so your going to switch to a company like apple that use tech from two years ago and. Release phone maybe every other year if you don't count on the ipone the add a letter to so stupid people will buy it cuz they think its better even though they only raised the processor 1 point higher dont make much sense to me but go ahead tell me how it goes
  • yeah and your 1520 is still being supported try having a 1020 that isn't being supported and your contract is up and the only new phone available on AT&T doesn't support the apps I use
  • I'm guessing that you think the 1520 is too big? Well me and my gf both have 920s and 1520s. Once you've had the 1520 for a week or so,you'll find that it's not bad. And you'd wonder how you got by with a smaller phone in the first place.
  • I go back and forth on 1520.3 (wireless charging, sd, and camera) and 6 plus (apps - fitness & banking, fingerprint reader & payment system). No one phone has gotten it right.
  • Totally agree. I held of buying a 1520 because of the size. But after using it for a week, I don't think it's that big anymore. You get used t it really fast & it's a pleasure looking at picture on this gorgeous screen.
  • How does the iphone 6 look good if you have a lumia 1020? I don't understand since the phone that you have is just as good or better in specs than the iphone 6. How is the 930 not enough? What else would you like? I have the lumia 920 since it first came and still going quite strong, despite it's age. I don't understand how the 930 isnt enough
  • Exactly! I was going to ask the same thing?!
  • yes, just moved from L1020 to 930 - great phone.
  • So you bought the "brick" phone
  • For some people the only way it would be "Enough" if it had better spec's then every single phone out. problem is, cant do that and have a competitvly priced phone. I went from a 920 to an Icon and I love it. Some people just want too much
  • A guy at work who is an iPhone user asked me if a was going to get an iPhone now since the 6 was out. Owning a 1020 I told him I couldn't possibly downgrade to an iPhone. He just looked at me and I said, seriously. Then I rattled off a bunch of high end features nowhere to be found on the new iPhone. Pretty much ended that foolish conversation.
  • nicely done. it's logically a step backward and why would you pay a premium for it?
  • The key is not to react and act out like an ahole. But to act genuinely bewildered as if you have a Surface Pro and someone asks if you'll trade it in for a Chromebook. What?
    I mean really what are we doing? If you're an iPhone person cool, at least now you've got a decent sized phone to choose finally, if you're not then you're not. So what. Nobody wants to be preached at or coerced into some sort of brand conversion. While there are differences between the various phones most people only know about 10% of what they're phone is capable of doing. And all phones are 9000% better than what was available 10 years ago. So really if you're got an iPhone an Android phone or a Windows Phone I really don't care. Just don't try to convert me to what you like because I'm more than capable of making my own decisions and I absolutely love my Windows Phone. If that should change, well then I'll ask you for your opinion. And if you want to play that spec war crap, I don't buy shit. I know exactly what my phone can do and probably know much more about your phone than you do. Much like karate, just knowing I can beat your ass is satisfaction enough.
  • NIST, makes a valid point
  • Win! This is how people should be.
  • This is what is needed. Make the iPhone and android superiority complexes to rest when your 2 year old phone trumps the new one.
  • Hi. Can you tell me some of the high end features that the iPhone 6 doesn't have that the 1020 has? I'm a WP only user, but am unaware of what you are referring to. Thanks.
  • Well, for one, the amazing camera. The iphone doesnt have that and it has been improved with 8.1. 2gb ram, altought that's considered the standard among the higher end. despite Apple's Retina Display, all the Nokia high end phones have a bigger ppi than the iphone 6. Wireless charging, which is a standard now among the higher end android and windows phones. Well, it has micro usb, which to me is still better at least having the flexibility and the option even if no one else has nokia, you can still charge your phone with other brands no need for itunes or any specific program. To me that's a huge plus
  • @Asphaltpotato: Thanks. I have heard that the iPhone's camera is not that good. Wireless charging is nice too. I gave that up with the One M8, but that's no biggie to me. I love the micro SD card option though. Having to use iTunes was an immediate turn off for me to iPhones. Thanks,again!
  • iPhones never need to be connected to iTunes anymore unless you somehow manage to destroy the operating system during updates. 
  • so if you wanna transfer files from the phone to the computer you don't need iTunes anymore? Really?
  • The only files you would be transferring are photos and video, those haven't required iTunes for a while now. You could also just use iCloud, Onedrive, Google Drive, Dropbox, Flickr etc to back up photos and video.  The only thing that iTunes is needed for is music that was not bought directly from Apple.  They do have the option of Wifi Syncing iPhones music collection as well as iTunes Match for $25 a year you get up to 25,000 songs bought outside of iTunes (Songs bought from the iTunes store don't count against the limit and don't require iTunes match to be streamed).
  • Well, screw that still. I love how Windows Phone just allows you to connect to the computer as if it were another removable device. Simple and concise, no other BS of a dedicated program.
  • Sure you can start with a full mechanical OIS system, the 41MP Zeiss 5 element camera lens, HAAC microphones, ability to record in 5.1 Dolby surround, Hey Cortana, free cloud storage, Native Office, a camera button in most instances, transparent live tiles even in folders, being able to message friends on their Xbox, DSLR camera controls, wireless charging, SD card support.... There is so much more but you can start there.
  • And this my friends is what Daniel is talking about in the editorial. It was a petulant, arrogant, and IMO honest response to why not switching to iPhone. I do think that we need more of this same attitude.
  • Just know your device and don't be a sheep.
  • Can you name them ? As I've only seen the iphone in streaming for the presentations,you are so well informed,did you make a direct comparison,like side by side ?
  • Look above.
  • The majority of people don't want specs because they really need them,but only to show off to friends that they have something more,ore to walk in a place holding the phone glued to their ears to show off.
  • I just want microSD. It wasn't a cost decision but a design decision to leave it off the 920. Every top-end Lumia has missed this basic feature.
  • 1520 has it
  • it doesn't sound like the phone is the issue.. it's the carrier.. if he's using a 1520 and a 1020, i'm guessing he's with ATT.. so, a 930/Icon isn't an option.. i'm on the same boat.. have a 920 and if 930/Icon was available for att, i would have that now.. heck, i'm even thinking about getting the HTC One m8 (even with it's crappy camera).. and moving to verizon isn't an option, so i'm stuck.. MS needs to make their current high end phone available to everybody.. 
  • I blame this on the carriers not MS. Microsoft is desperate for the carriers in the US (whose sales reps are the gatekeepers for closing the deal on phones). Let me make a 99.99999999% accurate satirical conversation between Windows Phone and the US carriers. WP Team: "Please sell this super awesome phone we know the majority of you subscribe base will love."
    AT&T "Ok we'll sell it if we get it first and have exclusives for X time"
    Verizon: "Only if we can make it exclusive, lock it down and you slightly modify it from the rest after att gets it so we can price gouge our customers on accessories they can't find anywhere else"
    T-Mobile, cricket and every bargain carrier : "Only the dirt cheap ones"
    Sprint: "What's a win does pho one-ay? Is it some kind of Vietnamese soup?" Then the sales reps don't sell it anyways or recommend it and deter someone who already wants it from buying it
  • I lost it when I read the sprint comment... its literally so true...i have an 8XT, waiting for them to finally give us the firmware so I can update to 8.1 GDR1, and its so fun reading the support forum posts about people asking for the update. The customer care reps are so clueless its hilarious
  • Exactly. I went to a VZW store here in Phoenix right after the launch of the W8 and asked to see "the new HTC One M8 Windows Phone 8.1 device that came out exclusively to Verizon this week" (verbatim to the sales rep) in a cocky attitude "Windows Phone sucks and the M8 only runs android"... REALLY!!!???? so I showed him on my phone with an image of the phone and he went to ask his manager. Not a third party VZW store mind you, a corporate location. All morons... I used to train them and part of why I quit VZW was because I love MS stuff and phones and there was blatant disregard when it came to support and training and it seemed like I was the only one trying to advance the line.
  • I agree. I move from one carrier to the other (Verizon to AT&T and back) to get the phone I want, because one carrier doesn't have it when I want it. 
  • Save a few pennies and buy an 830 outright and have an upgrade available when one comes along that you like in early '15 maybe. Or just go ahead and get a 1520. Can't go wrong with one.
  • It's not the specs alone. Also the app selection, app quality and support for peripherals are factors for me. I currently have a Lumia 925 and a Nexus 5 after giving my iPhone 5 to my wife a few months back, but I'm still considering an iPhone 6 despite the somewhat disappointing specs. This is because the iPhone has the necessary apps and necessary functionality to do what I need. Just yesterday I tried watching hockey on my Nexus 5 + Chromecast combination, only to get frustrated with the choppy playback and return to Apple TV. I'd like to try how my Lumia would handle the same scenario, but there are still two relevant components missing. First the service would need to get their app up to par with iOS/Android versions and support live sports streams (this in a country with double-digit WP market share). Secondly the recently announced HD-10 receiver needs to become available in Finland. If the previous Nokia accessories are any kind of an indicator, this will happen around May 2015 when the season is already over. Posted via Windows Phone Central App
  • You say the 1520 is not your thing, then point out the new Notes. Why worry about those when we still have the 1520? I put the 1520 up against the Note 4 any day of the week.
  • Couple of things: 1. I was trying to point out how other companies are iteratively progressing each year. The Note 3 came out in September 2013 and the Note 4 and Note Edge in September of 2014. The consistent release of updated phones per product line is what gets people (the fan boys). I have Apple friends and some were on the # cycle while the others on the 's' cycle. Now they're going to lose their minds with 2 6s and no more 'c'... Point is I would like to expect that if teh 1020 come out in July of '13 a new iteration would come out roughly 12 months later. So the 1520 should be getting a 1530 (or something) in November/Decmber. Just like the 920 got the 930. 2. The only reason I'd take a Note 4 over the 1520 is the stylus. For most people that's probably dumb, but I have a Note 10.1 and love the handwriting recognition. I'm also a designer and use it for most of my starting sketches. It makes me consider the Note for a phone, but for me the size is too big.  So in reality I wasn't trying to say I was considering at Note, but more that the iterative and consistent releases were good and that for those people who like big phones the Note is maybe a possibility?
  • I agree that the Lumia naming scheme is terrible and really tells nothing about the device. There should really only be 3, maybe 4 tiers of devices. So the idea of 5xx, 6xx, 7xx, 8xx, 9xx & 1xxx is just ridiculous. And having carrier variants its just bad for business as users on certian carriers often have no equivalent available.
  • Your argument about the naming scheme telling nothing of the device, how is it different from the iphone, which has been 4, 4s, 5, 5c,5s and Galaxy s3, s4, s5? I don't understand because we know nothing of those devices from their name but we have to look it up to see what they're all about
  • @asphaltexactly--- Exactly! (lol)...but seriously, your point is spot on. Reading through these comments, it's clear most people haven't given much thought to their "complaints" they just want/like to complain about something --anything!. Its a horrible mindset to carry around your entire life. Its a shame it took me 35 yrs to realize this but at the same time, Im happy I eventually did realize it bcuz most people never "get it"
  • I think the naming is fine as long as it stays consistent. 10XX = best camera line, 9XX = high end with cutting edge design and still good photos, 15XX = High end large screen, 8XX = mid range without cutting too many corners... you get my point. It's all about MS building consistency in the brand. The Galaxy line didn't really go crazy in name recognition until between the S2 and S3. I think their fanboys realized at that point they would be consistenly updating that line. I think a lot of it has to do with trust. Do you trust that MS/Nokia is going to consistently put out a newer version of the device you love or do you worry you might have to sacrifice in some area (compared to your current WP device) with the next launch? The OS is there now. In my mind MS has done everything right with the OS. It's now about consistently launching better devices in each of their chose product lines. The same goes for HTC. If they launch the M8 will they launch the M9 soon after the Android version? If they do they'll build trust in that line and help gain loyal followers. 
  • Yes, releasing good if not great hardware, is very important. Software may overall be OK, yet it is certainly not done. We need to avoid 1020's with no SD Card slot and 930's without Glance, or dumping all games into the menu without the ability to toggle them back to the Games hub.
  • Thats True. Even I have 1020. Wait for another kickass phone with more
  • Same... 1020 owner here... I see all these new Windows phones coming out but they keep losing to the 1020 in the camera department... I use take pictures and videos all the time at clubs and raves... My friends don't even use their phones anymore to take photos... They ask for my phone... Want to upgrade phone to phone that has equal or better camera...
  • You do realize that the 1520 or 930 cameras are a very close call to 1020 in picture quality, right ? The 1020 could zoom the picture a little more, but the 1520/930 can take photos faster, can record sound better, will be able to record 4k now and probably will get some new functions due to its processor capacity. 930 is a huge upgrade from 1020, waiting for a 1030 is like waiting for the iPhone 7 starting now...
  • What exactly is "flagship" when the OS runs just fine on any model phone. Yes great hardware, specs, etc are great but don't forget the OS pretty much runs the same on any phone..
  • I ask this with complete sincerity since I too own the 1020. What is lacking in the 1020 that the iPhone 6 or Sony Xperia Z3 has that would cause you to switch? I've had the 1020 since day one and have yet to see a phone worthy enough to drop the 41 megapixel camera the 1020 has. When Microsoft comes out with the successor to the 1020, I'll be al over it, but for now I'm quite content, and that's saying a lot for me because I am the ultimate gadget geek.
  • I probably won't switch to the iPhone 6. It looks nice, but you're correct in saying there aren't many advantages. I would consider switching (but probably won't) because the agency I work at does a lot of iOS and Android development and design. It would be nice to use some of the apps help work on. The one game changing feature for me on the Xperia Z3 is the remote streaming from my PS4. I don't have an xbox one (and sadly won't be getting one), so please don't comment and tell me I should wait until MS does that with WP. Plus I like the newer UI on Android. Was a webOS fan and see a lot of that in what Matias has brought to Android. My point was really that if MS had started on an iterative release schedule I'd have more confidence and know that my next phone would be the update to the 1020 line. My only complaint is that the Nokia Camera is slow in snapping photos (am I doing it wrong?) and with a 2 year old that won't sit still my wife ends up getting the good photos on her iPhone. When I do get a good shot it's way better than her iPhone 5, but half the time he's run away before I can capture the moment.
  • I hear you on the slow camera. My kids these days are my dogs and I've missed plenty of shots. I can see it being a bigger deal with your child. Those are moments you can never get back. I'm just hoping its sooner than later that a 1030 our equivalent comes out.
  • Yeah it takes great still shots, but it's slow. I never realized how much I wanted a great camera on my phone until I had a child, but now it's a must have. Even with that though I'm now the go to guy at work to take photos of events. To people here (and to everyone when the 1020 first came out) I was the guy with "that phone that has an insane camera". It was cool and I still brag about it, but the lag is an issue for me (and one I keep to myself.
  • I read an article that recommending prefocusing to reduce the 1020's lag. There's still a slight lag, but not as bad as waiting for it to focus, then take the picture. Its helped me get some really good pictures of my kids. You either manually focus at the correct distance or half press the camera button to set the focus (a circle will appear when the focus is set). Then keep half pressing until you're ready to take the shot. It's easier to do the latter if you don't have a cover or you cut off the part of your cover that covers the camera button.
  • Thanks for the tip. I'll give that a try.
  • Lumia 1520 and 930 have continuous focus wich greatly improve the time to take a picture.   Also in your Lumia 1020 you could set the focus to manual to take some photos of your kid.  You will not miss a moment doing that.
  • Those phones have nothing on the 1520; quite the opposite, in fact, and the 1520 is pushing 1 year...! B-)
  • Bringing a new device out every year would probably cause phone makers to do what Apple is doing,making small increments and negligible changes.
  • I'm so sick and tired of hearing "flagship" on this site. It doesn't have any clear meaning. It's like asking for the phone that has everything you want. The harsh reality is that Windows phone had made much more progress on the low end so your flagship phone, whatever the hell that is, is a lot less important to all of these OEMs. The bigger issues plaguing WP are brand identity, messaging, and positioning, which is why this article was written. Can anyone tell me what Windows Phone is all about? They need to somehow distill what makes this OS distinctive into a consistent message. The one thing you hear everywhere is that it runs well on bird seed and ginger ale. Marketing needs to be able to communicate that. There need to be more reasons to buy the top shelf phones, then. McLaren and its features was that reason and I wouldn't expect to see a cutting edge phone until that device comes out. At most, they will release a phone with an array camera, but don't hold your breath. The right kind of snobbery that Daniel is speaking of goes something like, "I can't believe you spent $700 on an iPhone when you could've had a great experience for $150 without committing to a carrier!"
  • They have put out "flagship" devices. Bu for whatever reason when it comes to WP's that's a relative term and a moving target. Could literally have more features, highers specs (two more things I'm tired of hearing about) as their competitors and somebody will always come here and question whether or not it's a "flagship" because of some inane reason.  Iphones are considered "flagships", yet now we see that the new 830 matches it in specs... yet nobody here is willing to call the 830 anything special. Maybe if you regarded these devices as 'special' MS would see your comittmentand actually offer something more high end. 
  • Flagship need to be the best among its peers, something the company (be it Microsoft/Apple/Google or among manufacturers or carriers) can use to represent themselves against the competition. iPhone only have a single line most of the time, so naturally their flagship is their latest model. It still has the most feature among the iPhone. And although it lost by specs, it still has other values such as it's still being respected by the world developers and brands who would even develop for iPhone and not Android. Windows Phone and Android have many manufacturers and that pushes the bar high, including buyer's expectation. With so many Windows Phone and Android devices, they need to tell their loyalists how one device stand out high among its lowly peers. Also since both Android and Windows Phone wants to be one that rules them all, they need to fight it out with each others. Think of it like nationalism. Are you proud of your nationality because of what it does (e.g: your nationality made you bona fide to the immigration, you have faith that your country will stand by your side when trouble arise abroad, you know your country still has respect and influence despite how it's often spitted by its own peoples) or you just feel "proud" because it's what they say you have to do (added with empty words like "here's where I'm born")
  • Apple also only releases one (now, two) phones. And, given the reception and reputation that iPhones have, it's not unorthodox to call it a flagship device. With devices like the 830, there's nothing about it that stands out from the competition. Period. Even if the specs are better than the iPhone, no one (speaking relatively) is probably going to go crazy over it or give notice. I see nothing special about it, and I never will. Granted, it's not a device that's being marketed towards me, anyway. Here's the definition of flagship: "the best or most important thing owned or produced by a particular organization." You can't sit here with a straight face and say that devices like the 830 are flagship devices. You'd be lying to yourself. How does this device stand out? Microsoft has a 530/5, a 630/5, a 730/5, and an 830 just released this year. What makes these devices special? Truth be told, I don't even consider my 1520 a flagship device. High-end? Yes. Flagship? No, not at all. In my opinion, specs don't "necessarily" make a flagship. Unfortunately, with the exception of iOS, the public has come to expect the latest specs in flagship devices. Or, some stand-out feature that the competition doesn't necessarily have. For example, the Moto X last year launched as a fully-customizable device that had a one-of-a-kind voice assistant (Google Now). Now, the Moto X didn't have the latest specs or the biggest scree. But, it brought things to the market that didn't exist in other products. Also, take the Note line: the only device that has pen-input completely integrated into the UI. My point is this: Microsoft needs a flagship device. It's ok to release devices for all price-points, a la Samsung. But, a clear flagship device (or devices) would really strengthen the brand. /end rant
  • I completely agree with you.  I think if MS launched a 10XX and a 15XX every year with others beneath it they'd be fine. The 10XX could be launched every June/July and the 15XX every Nov-Jan. It would be 2 flagships. One big (like the Note that launches every september) and one a touch more 'normal'(like Galaxy S launching at CES right?). That establishes a buying cycle for the consumer who loves that device. That makes me look forward to every June/July when I know MS will announce the new 10XX. Then I tell people it's coming, then I brag about the new features... then it achieves fandom like the Sammies and Apples of the world. Its the consistency and anticipation that they lack right now. I'm always left guessing at when the next grounding breaking WP phone will come out and if it's time to buy a new phone and I don't know if I'll have to wait 2 months, 10 months or forever for a new 10XX I'm more likely to consider something else.
  • This is not the first time Apple releases two phones. Remember 5C? Guess nobody does. :p
  • Iphone 6 plus preorders update!
    All sold out in USA,eat your balls WP users,oops,me to,I have WP :)
  • Completely nonsense.   For what youre saying then Lumia 1020 is still a flaghship device. Lumia 1520 and 930 would also be flagship devices.  Tell me another phone that has the same audio recording capablity, 1520 is still the biggest phone in the market, after 1020 they are also way ahead the competitiion in photography... What exactly would be a flagship device for you in Windows Phone ??
  • Right there is tue biggest difference between iPhone and WP. We, as tech oriented people, the majority of us anyway, want "flagship" phones. We want the best specs, the best camera and the best features. That's fine. But when was the last time you heard an iPhone user talk about specs? Do you even know what kind of processor is in an iPhone without looking it up? Or how many megapixels its camera has? No, you know why? Because they don't sell specs. They sell features, which in this day and age are lacking, and we cab all agree their product may have been ground breaking in the past, but by today's standards it is far lacking. However, they gathered their fan base early, and until now they have pretty much kept it. Granted they are starting to lose ground simple because not much has changed on an iPhone since it was released, mainly only screen size and the phones sequential numbers.. Beyond that the experience is pretty much the same today as it was years ago. The point is that today, even though we as WP users k ow what makes it stand out from the rest, its not being sold that way. They are getting there with the Cortana commercials, but that is only one aspect of what makes WP so much better than the rest of the playing field. I've used everything, and the moment I got my WP I said I was never going back, and I mean it now more than ever, even though I'm using an 810 on T-Mobile that hasn't seen an update in a while and wont ever again. That's ok, that's where the tech oriented part says Preview woot! Still get the features I want. I will be upgrading to the HTC One M8 when T-Mobile releases it on their network. I would prefer a new Flagship Lumia, but that wont be happening on T-Mobile. I've waited and waited.... But there we are on the flagship thing again. I want the best specs, the best features, the best LUMIA, but unfortunately my carrier doesn't seem to be fond of WP. That's ok, they are getting the M8 and that's close enough for me. I've gotten wat of my point, but also stayed with it..... My rant is over...
  • Completely agree, brother! (Next time, use breaks between paragraphs, please and thank you. Paragraphs are your FRIEND, lol).
  • As for that,you don't even know what's under the hood of a Rolls Royce !
  • Hi this is a great conversation. I think there is a LOT of passion that we Windows Phone users have about our platform of choice, and a great deal of pride. My friends and family are witnesses of my own commitment and passion about the platform. It is often a topic of conversation, and my local ATT store knows me as well. I'm sure MANY of you have similar stories. I have been successful at covering about nine people in my circle to Windows Phone,. I'm sure it doesn't do much for our barely 4% but we're a passionate bunch. This is what we do. I think what really drew many of us in was Windiws Phones distint identity. There is NO WAY IN THE WORLD Apple will be bringing Microsoft to
  • ".. to"   To what? Don't leave us hanging!
  • Hi this is a great conversation. I think there is a LOT of passion that we Windows Phone users have about our platform of choice, and a great deal of pride. My friends and family are witnesses of my own commitment and passion about the platform. It is often a topic of conversation, and my local ATT store knows me as well. I'm sure MANY of you have similar stories. I have been successful at converting about (9) nine people in my circle to Windows Phone. I'm sure it doesn't do much for our barely 4% market share but we're a passionate bunch. This is what we do. I think what really drew many of us in was Windows Phones distinct identity. There is NO WAY IN THE WORLD Apple will be bringing Microsoft to court for mimicking its OS or UI. That's what's ironic about the comment from the writer Daniel has highlighted. Windows Phone has NEVER tried to be LIKE Apple, it is the furthest thing from an imitation product one will find on the market. So much so that the horde of iOS and Android users find it awkward, a tad confusion, at first blush, until they play around with it a bit to learn it’s unique UI and navigation properties. iOS and Android’s UI with side scrolling pages of static icons are so similar that some may confuse moving effortlessly between those two platforms as inherent intuitiveness of those OS’ users interfaces and the slight learning curve associated with using something as unique, yet simple as Windows Phone as unintuitive. At any rate I’m sure the “cheap imitations” the writer was referring to most certainly must be Android devices. Ok, back to what drew us in. I know I’m preaching to the choir here but, our passion and love for this platform for MOST if not ALL of us is because of the UNIQUENESS of the platform. Live Tiles: No UI does it like Windows Phone! Graphically minimalistic tiles that deliver up the data/info that is the most important reason we interact with our devices. “Glance-and-Go” was the early mantra. You guys remember that. Yes, Live Tiles, we love them, show them off and compare their dynamic, lively, efficient purposeful beauty PROUDLY against those DEAD, STOIC wallpaper of icons on iOS and android devices. Sure Android has widgets but they are not as elegant, graceful or as smoothly integrated into a phones UI as Live Tiles are on Windows Phones. Yeah we LOVE our Windows Phones. Social Network Integration Ok sticky point! If you’ve been around for a while in the Windows Phone camp this of course was ONE of THE most loved aspects of the platform. I admit that I have two Windows Phones, a 1520 which I upgraded to Windows Phone 8.1 Update1 and a 1020 with WP8 which I refuse to update. One I would like to do a comparison between the two OS’s, TWO I prefer the ORIGINAL implementation of social integration that originally drew in my passionate dedication. But this is where things get sticky with for Windows Phone fans who want to REALLY talk up the platform firmly footed in the WP camp, and confident that they have a cohesive consistent message to hurl out to the world. WINDOW’s PHONE IS GREAT BECAUSE OF….. Live Tiles, and Tightly Integrated Social Networking….hmmmm...ok it’s kind of still there with extensibility but it’s different. The previous implementation made the phone itself like a seamless portal to our social networking world. We integrated with our friends on FACEBOOK, LINKEDIN and TWITTER without ever SEEING those apps.  It was powerful because it was a really all graceful implementation of the PEOPLE-CENTIC, vs the APP centric method employed by Apple and iOS. How many of you are like me and absolutely hate when a friend messages you on Facebook and instead of going to that PERSON you have to get to the Facebook massager app to communicate with them. This is what is sticky. The DEEP SOCIAL NETWORK integration on the OS level that made the social network APPs invisible as we interacted with PEOPLE, messaging that was centralized allowing communication with one person via one portal rather than requiring multiple apps; an aesthetically pleasing Photos Hub that had a personalization touch allowing ones images to occupy the background, and ALSO integrated images from social networks, a ME tile that served as the Control Center that delivered up notifications when someone liked a Facebook status, tweeted me, and allowed us to post to multiple networks simultaneously. (Thank God for developers who created apps like ShareIT and MultiShare but the native implementation was awesome). What am I saying here? One I certainly understand to some extent the reason for pulling certain functionality out of the OS to allow more efficient updates. I also recognize ALL OF the INCREDIBLE things that came with Windows Phone 8.1. But I think there’s a point of acknowledgment that needs to be made and I think it rings well with Daniels question about our passionate stand as Windows Phone fans. We don’t have a consistent message; we’ve lost some of the core things that drew us in, some of the things you, me and Ben the PC Guy adamantly used to promote the platform. Deep social network integration, Hubs, the power of the Me Tile, the People Centric of the OS evidenced in various areas such as messaging. We were drawn in by these messages, embraced them, and promoted them to friends and families and well, now those things are gone or changed. Please don’t get me wrong. I LOVE Windows Phone. Look at my Avatar. My wife and I are wearing Cortana T-Shirts. J We’re all in. What I am talking about here is the shifting of a core message that most of us embraced, which we can no longer use to promote the platform. It makes it a cognitive challenge when certain elements of the platform which were PURELY and ENTIRELY unique are now gone, and the visible thing that replace what was lost as collateral damage were much desired and needed functionality which simply brought the platform on par with the competition  like the Notification Center. It used to be easier to RATTLE off a bunch of unique features found only on Window Phone. Granted there are still many, but the conversation has changed, it’s not as WAM-BAM WINDOWS MAN easy to pitch and demo quick unique features. Not only has our message become a tad bit more difficult to deliver but the emotional aspect and disappointment many of us accepted as we moved forward with 8.1 and sacrificed some core functionality we previously embraced was also real. It’s pretty tough but, it is what it is. But… Apple has a message. They belong to an elite group that prides themselves on belonging to one of THE most esteemed brands on the planet; a group led by a man that changed the world before he passed. Yes, they belong to a group that receives constant validation from the media, tech reviewers, bloggers that they are indeed who they believe they are. This message doesn’t change. They’re message is not necessarily founded on the tech – but the brand. That’s why even when the iPhone lags behind the competition technically the followers FOLLOW. The first iPhone was far less capable than any Windows Mobile device on the market at the time, but the UI and Jobs (you have to give it to him) AWESOME presentation sold the world on the – BRAND. And it’s only gotten bigger (the brand) since. Android camp has a message too. Yes the tech dudes love the open OS (a lot of Windows Mobile guys like myself who loved the Openness of that platform defected to Android) but at 80% of the market share MOST of those users are not techies. So what’s the deal with android user’s dedication to the platform? I think its reaches down to that fundamental characteristic about all of us. Here’s an example. You’re walking down the street and suddenly everyone begins running in the opposite direction. YOU have no idea WHY but if EVERYONE else is doing it can they be wrong? The ubiquity of android from the very LOW QUALITY virtually give away phones that are given away to the high quality flagships like the Galaxies puts Android phones in EVERYONES view. Even to the non-techies they see Android everywhere, are pushed android devices, even phones given to low income citizens are given android devices (maybe WP should get the 530s as part of that program).  Anyway, stats such as the glaring 80% OF THE GLOBAL MARKET is indeed a validation to those committed to the platform that yep, this is the place to be. Ok so Apple has the elite luxury branding message, Android the sheer vastness of their dominance/platform openness (of course we techies see thing like specs and stuff). So what’s Windows Phone message.  One that works for all Windows Phone users. What message rings united across us all. Does the people centric message still work? Does the social network integration still apply (technically yes, but you hit the app icon to get there, you “see” the app)? What about live tiles? Is that enough of a differentiator? Cortana, I posit is a powerful selling point. She’s different and she has the entire halo brand behind her, and with the release of Halo: The Master Chief Collection, Nightfall, and Halo: 5 and the Showtime Steven Spielberg Halo TV Show – Microsoft has the opportunity propel her and Windows Phone into the collective consciousness. Shortcoming, she’s not in every region. But the challenge in making a cohesive statement like : "Apple does not chase market share. Apple develops world-class products that delight users. One Apple customer is worth more than a gaggle of those who settle for poor imitations of Apple products." (This statement is consistent with the message of a dedication and embracing of the BRAND) For Windows Phone it is a bit of a challenge, I believe that some of the core elements of Windows Phone have changed, the identity I believe has altered. Maybe a regrouping is in order, a concise message devised around what is strictly unique and then a concerted onlslaught! This statement wouldn’t work for us. "Microsoft does not chase market share.(our camp is madly chasing share) Microsoft develops world-class products that delight users(they absolutely do, however because the platform is trusted to other OEM’s WP users may not buy experience the WP product on a Microsoft device). One Microsoft customer is worth more than a gaggle of those who settle for poor imitations of Microsoft products.(One thing about Apple is that their margins are REALLY high. They make more profit than OEMs with larger share."   Maybe a statement centered around personalization ranging from the UI to the Assistant can be a battle cry around which we can all rally! Long comment I know. Sorry
  • Edit: With Smartphones actING more and more as extensions of our person maybe the common message can center around a core experience that we all DO love about Windows Phone and also what Microsoft pushes as part of the platform; How Personal it Is.  Maybe a statement centered around how personal windows Phone is ranging from the UI to Cortana, the Assistant, can be a battle cry around which we can all rally! What makes someone more satisifeid than something made JUST FOR THEM. Windows phone is the MOST PERSONAL MOBILE PLATFORM.
  • Only that Apple products are made in sweat shops in China and Android being open source is really an illusion.
  • Wow, but indeed quite long. I hope the integrated approach will be back some day - as an optional hub in which you can link/unlink social accounts.
  • I agree, the numbers have to go.
  • i think microsoft should rethink their branding. Lumia for low/mid-range tablets and phones (lumia 5xx-8xx and surface 2(3)) and surface for their world-class.. aaah what am i tellin?- universe-class products like the best tablet as the surface pro 3 and the best cam-phones(10xx), best phablet(15xx) and the best compromise you could ever make (9xx).   and by the way.. sorry for my bad - german style - english.. yeah here are some Windows Phone Phone (Phone Phone) oweners too :p
  • Wish I would have read your comment before replying to some above. THIS is what I'm talking about.
  • Well Said.. *claps
  • Fully agree the Surface branding should have been adopted.  The Surface name is already recognized as a quality product so why not continue.
  • Agreed, the Lumia models are the numerical version of 2011 Android's indistinguishable hyperboles ("HTC Pretense" "Samsung Astound" "LG Really cool" etc.). And all the downgradey upgrades are a problem. You don't see iPhone 6 users giving up iPhone 5 features t upgrade. If it was in the Lumia 920, it should be in anything else you want to call a flagship. Don't give me "upgrades" with no glance, pentile screens, missing Qi, etc. The only full upgrades (nothing downgraded or lost) to the two-year-old 920 are the 830 and the international 1520. That's a problem.
  • You hit the nail on the head...
  • Microsoft's biggest problem: It wants its hands in every cookie jar, but has no idea why people like the cookies. Windows Phone wasn't made to solve a consumer problem. It was made to solve a MICROSOFT problem! There was no real consumer need to fulfill...except for maybe having the flexibility of Android with the stability of iOS, but Microsoft decided to copy the iOS closed system, so there was no Android-like flexibility. Microsoft doesn't have the clout to strong arm carriers like Apple does. The carriers didn't want a second iPhone unless it sold like a second iPhone.
  • I agree.  You want to be REALLY good at one or two things...not average at all of them.
  • Yes...
  • Agree. "Icon" was a great name for a phone!
  • I placing a good bet that they are waiting for Windows 9
  • Yes, we need catchy names, like Icon. Now imagine Icon, Icon 4, Icon 4s, Icon 5 etc. Just kidding, as suggested by Daniel.
  • No,I'd say...Defcon,1,2,3,and so on :)
  • So, should Billy be the top of the line model or Andy? Or should they call it Urhines? Just asking.
  • The number make sense the big numbers are better speced and more expensive and makes the name shorter.   Samsung are just stupid they have names that might as well be samsung galaxy S vagina S-i1337 4G Y-Yfakey edition here is an actual name Samsung Galaxy S4 Active LTE-A SHV-E470S 32GB or Samsung Galaxy S4 TDD LTE GT-I9507 16GB instead of Nokia Lumia 930 Any ways 1500 series is Phablet flagship 1000 series is photography flagship 900 series is nomal sized flagship 700 series budget photagrpy focussed 1300 series budget phablet 600 series budget normal sized  500 seies entry level. and the 800 series makes no sense.
  • @Wonginist - exactly right with that list! It's just a shame that both the 900 and 1000 series are both missing microSD to make them truly appealing to everyone! Even if they offered 32/64/128 models it would be a start (especially on the 1020)
  • 800 Series: Affordable flagship..
  • I repeat you. I own an L820. What more do i need. May be a better camera? not more than that. All i need like a flagship phone is there in it and no point of looking other platforms. We are way faar bettterr in comparison in most ways. And 800 series is affordable flagship. Truely.   A Proud WP user.
  • Its a great article. Its exactly how I feel about windows phone. My friends always make fun of the "app gap" and try to make me switch to android or apple. Yet people are always interested when they see those tiles flipping around on my phone.
  • I would like to see there "laugh" if you had Vertu phone, which is even less "popular")
  • Nothing like downloading a video with metrotube and watching whenever I want independent of the network. Android and iPhone can't do that;)
  • Are you saying Android and iOS don't offer third-party YouTube apps? Mctube and a host of other apps will disagree with you.
  • Not what I'm saying at all. I've had androids and the google guidelines say you can't have an app that can download videos. None of the third party utube apps can do what the third party utube apps on WP can do.
  • I should clarify, I'm not talking about streaming, but downloading for off line viewing-video is stored on the phone.
  •     I guess you just glossed over the app I mentioned.  Mctube does all of this. There are a ton of others.   
  • HEY HEY HEY.  No fair, we're talking, you know, Android and iOS circa 2011 or thereabouts  You know, since the last time I personally used an Android handset and have not further knowledge after that point.   WAIT WAIT WAIT.  I'm an WP user and I really should be perptuating lies about competing OS's... that's what Daniels telling me to do, right?    Uhhh...
  • Sorry, but Android and iOS have had third-party YouTube clients that could download videos for years now. 
  • @BenJAMIn: Love your comment. WPhones, definitely, have a different and better look, IMHO, than other phones. And with 8.1 (if a user has it yet), it makes them look even more alluring, IMHO. 
  • Yes exactly.. Because our OS is very different in terms of appearance.. And it's very beautiful.. I've never seen a person complaining about the UI of the OS..
  • Well,next time ask your "friends" what apps according to them that you should have on your phone.
  • Nice article, I'm more I don't care what ios, android has to offer cause I can already do everything I need.  Won't really go as far and blindly say we don't need the market share though!
  • I personally DO agree with this position. Why Apple-lovers ALLOW themselves to say that things, and WP users not? They call it elite? Well of course, Vertu is even less spread and is Elite) So do the Microsoft's products.
  • If it were me, I take the position that Apple is the Elite high end of the spectrum, Microsoft can follow very closely on the shores of their golden utopia for the rest of us and I would sooner leave Android to the dregs of society since its open, free and a hive of scum and villainy in certain areas lol =P As in real life the middle class (Microsoft) is in the minority... O.o
  • Uh, no, the position of elite goes to WP. Hardware craps all over iPhone in any version. They got the most apps, but a sucky, boring interface with neither tiles, nor widgets. IPhone sucks iMonkeys.
  • I don't think I want to even give that ground away.  To many, it would imply that Apple really is the better product. And like automobile companies, Microsoft has models for each price range.  I don't think MS wants to give up buyers of the expensive phones to Apple.
  • I am a WP user and I think Windows Phone users CAN do that kind of elitist comment, because of the product quality they are getting. No exaggaration. 
  • Awesome... I love my Windows Phone. Thanks
  • A seller of t mobile in my country sad to me we won't sell any Nokia/Windows phone, we will not promote it because we are not getting any bonuses?!! It doesn't matter how great the phone is. Soooooo Microsoft needs to give some candy to the stores
  • Why does it have to be a fight? There are pluses and minuses to all of the OSes. Buy what you works best for you. IOS isn't for me, and Google's hunger for all my personal details scares me from Android. Windows works for me, but I have no problem if one of the others works better for you.
  • So you do not think WIndows Phone is unfairly criticized in US tech media? You are fine with it? That's ok, but I am not and neither are many Windows Phone users, who despite a high satisfaction rate, are treated like they have the pox.
  • Agreed. Windows is by far the most compatible and extensible PC OS available to people, but that didn't stop Mac users from loving their MacBooks. There's something about WP - e.g. its distinct design, the consistently *good* hardware, the far-reaching Microsoft ecosystem, Cortana and in the case of some Lumias, PureView - that make it a solid option for most people. For goodness sake, people don't have their noses buried in apps, they take photos, they chat with friends, they have *lives*. A Lumia 830 or 735 would be great for them, but you'll never see the media or carriers push it. It's ridiculous.  
  • Also the lack of Google apps is perceived as a big thing in tech circles. I don't think most people care, honestly, because the MS equivalents are great. But read an article in a tech publication, and they will just basically call it a non-starter because it doesn't integrate with Google.
  • That's where being haughty comes when someone says, "but none of Google's services are available on Windows Phone" we respond with "yeah and good riddance."
  • Fortunately there are 3rd party apps that give people like me that leave utube comments an option for using google +.
  • Easy for you to say. I use GMail, Outlook, and my iCloud email on a daily basis. Having integrated GMail support (the built-in email client IS lacking) would be a major plus. Hell, if I couldn't get my GMail to work on my 1520, arguably, I wouldn't have even thought to consider a WP.
  • The swift response is 'I don't want google apps on my phone'. That's one of the reasons for WP instead of Android.
  • You have no problem there man,google isn't developing anything for WP,as an example follow the "you tube" issues.
  • It's also perception. It's become an easy way to make a joke, like a few years ago making jokes about LA Clippers or the Kardashians. I was listening to "Wait, wait don't tell me" the other day and they were talking about the lines to the Apple store to get the new phone. Someone mentioned that in NYC it was hard to tell who was in line and who was just homeless. Someone quipped "Well, the homeless are the ones with Windows Phones." Which gave me a chuckle, but it's things like that which create an impression. Then again, at least someone mentioned Windows Phone in a mainstream show. So, maybe it's getting better? :)
  • ...and as Bart Simpson would say, "you're all think you're cool because you bought a $600 phone with a picture of a fruit on it? Those cost $10 to make and I peed on every one!"
  • Not to mention that lots of people see Microsoft as joke. I've read lots of comments saying that the cross-platform is awful, Microsoft is slow and blah blah blah. I believe people have a bad perception of Microsoft because of IE and Windows XP, idk. It's like hating on Microsoft has become a trend of some sort. Ridiculous!
  • I agree, sometimes I'd rather share my faith than share my phone choice... No one knows anything about windows phone, but they know your weird for having one. Frustrates the crap out of me...
  • This is absolutely to the point, sales staff support and media bias border on the criminal!!
    I am absolutely appalled at the vicious attitudes towards anything Microsoft Windows and PARTICULARLY against windows phone.
    I love mine but would like to see at least a level playing field with regard to media in particular!
  • yeah, me too. Sickens me to talk to a sales rep in store or on the phone and all they know is Android.  I make it my business to give them a good learn'n! :)
  • Owning a windows phone is like being an outcast . :')
  • Not outcast - more like Elite -  In the know before the rest of the world.  Just wish the damn devs would get the word.   It's not perfect but, damn if it isn't the most fluid interface out there. I can't use a phone without Live Tiles.  Information at your fingertips.  Glance, if not on glance, Lockscreen, If not on Lock, on Live tile.  Important info instantly.
  • And IOS fans are treated that way by Android fans and vice versa. Why perpetuate the hate and lack of civility among fans of the competing platforms?
  • I agree. When I got my note 2 early last year I was discouraged from WP, but thanks to a friend that pushed it HARD, I eventually got the 521. The only thing is MS screwed up bad by deemphasizing the people hub with 8.1. People hub is what got me to get it, then they took out the portion that allowed you to post to social networks directly from the hub. WTF??? They make a video destroying iPhone with people hub, then take that away. Great move Ms0_o They also were too slow on fixing Xbox Music, and now they are dragging their feet in announcing successors to the 1020 and other WPs. They are only marketing low end phones real hard and neglecting higher end users. To top that off, is it really that much more rxpensive to put 1 gb of ram in the 635? I guess I can see why iPhone is 2nd and WP is 3rd. All that being said, the OS itself is a brilliant piece of work by MS. The hardware is great. Lumia phones are great. Even the camera in my 521 without flash managed to take some excellent pics of the Batmobile at the Star Cars Museum in Gatlinburg, and that car was dimly lit. I never could get great photos of that car with the Note 2. My girlfriend did with her s3 because she used the flash on the camera, but the photo still looked better on my lumia's shooter because the batmobile wasn't lit with a flash. It retained its dark look without looking too dark to show up on my screen. I love WP, and will stand for the platform any day of the week, but on these forums, I gotta vent about its shortcomings. Great article.
  • Well said Daniel, my personal favorite is when people look at me like I'm crazy when I say I uses a Windows Phone.
  • This is a very well written piece. We have allowed antagonists to frame the discussion by conceding to their perception of value. As a result, we have given them the permission to treat the platform, and its users, like a second class citizen. We only have ourselves to blame for that. Personally, I have taken it onto myself to call out developers and companies that I do business with to tell them that it is not acceptable. Recently, I sent a letter to my local news station where I railed them for failing to provide an equal measure of coverage for Windows products. They responded by including Lumia devices in their coverage for latest event in Germany. Every time I'm prompted to install an Android app through a mobile site, I screenshot it and tweet them. I actually have a OneNote where I document these activities. I check them once a week and send them a follow up tweet with an updated screenshot. I've been using a number of hash tags but one that comes to mind is #FixTheMobileWeb. If no more than 1% of all the people who use the platform were to do the same, results would follow and the nature of the discussion would as well.
  • So much this! ^^^
  • I agree and I wonder if the bad stigma is caused by the name "windows", I have this strange feeling if it were made more cool and associated with another name like "Xbox phone" sales would instantly increase. For what it is worth I am a windows user and wp user who happens to love 8.1 on both my ThinkPad and my nokia nut I am also realistic and know that (especially living in California) windows isnt cool and the name is seen as less than. If I were CEO of Microsoft for a day I would rename windows "oneOS" this makes sense because MS is moving towards a centralized OS for all platforms from desktop, to phone to laptop to Xbox and many of the features are labeled one - Onedrive, OneNote, etc. So I would have XboxOne powered by oneOS, Xbox phone powered by oneOS, and PC powered by oneOS.
  • I like the ring to that, nice view.
  • Ever since apple ran those mac ads bashing PC guys, i've had an attitude towards people who use their products. And lets face the facts, most people who use apple are not very smart at tech. So I do tend to look down at them as small people.
  • Ok now your comment made me really laugh. Little people, eh? haha
  • "...most people who use apple are not very smart at tech."   I LOVE generalizations. Absolutely fuckin lov'em.
  • Gotta say this. I work the front desk at an inn and the majority of people who can't figure out how to turn on the wifi for their phone are apple folks.
  • Ok, that's nice and all; but, let's not pretend that every WP user is some kind of Dexter-style boy genius. After seeing some of the drivel posted here by some of the die-hards, they're the last ones that should be insulting the intellect of other people or groups of people.
  • Isn't it crazy how you become cool in an instant when you buy an Apple product? It's like a religion, supplementing lack of self esteem in people. But buying WP is viewed as throwing your money away on, say what? phone?
  • iPhones strike me as an old looking phone, no matter how much bigger they make it. It's the front of the phone and it's start screen that I don't like. If there was an iPhone with Windows Phone's software built in, I would, truly, consider getting it. Wishful thinkin, I know:)
  • God bless Apple !
  • Hey now ;) I'm a mac user and so are a ton of web development shops that make and run a ton of really good software. I love my Mac. I'll never use a PC as my main development machine. I do however love Windows 8 and Windows Phone and would love a Surface Pro 3. Maybe, just maybe, I'd replace my mac with that. But let's not call the people who make up a huge portion of commercial agency and creative work 'not very smart at tech'
  • Great, another person who thinks Macs make them creative or productive. This is like some construction worker claiming superior work because they drove a ford to the job site. Odds are you're using Adobe products that work just the same on PC or Mac. I happen to be a creative professional that uses a PC. I realize i'm an odd ball in the field, but I won't let others dictate what I should or shouldn't be using.
  • Whoa whoa whoa. I love the perception you have of me. I don't think I'm creative because I use a Mac. I think I'm creative because the firm I'm a director at wins awards for the work I do and our clients love working with us because of the results we get. I hope you weren't referring to me and saying that I'm actually not creative. I am not the best out there, but I think the work I do is pretty good and I just happen to use a Mac because that's what my parents had and I stuck with it. Like I said... I love Windows 8 and Windows Phone and a Surface would almost make me switch. I also had a smiley face up there, cause I took minor offense to you generalizing most Apple users as 'not very tech smart' when I find that there are plenty of us who are. By your standards my wife (a social worker) must know more about tech that I do just because she has a Surface 2.  I'm sure your work is plenty creative as well. I didn't mean to say that it wasn't just because you use a PC. I was just saying that personally I can't see myself moving from my Mac for my primary development or design work... and yes Creative Suite runs pretty much the same no matter what platform you're on.
  • That's a lot of words. I just read the fist line. Anyway, you were the one going on about your work and how you use a mac. I didn't write that.
  • Cool
  • Well it seems that you are trying to do it !
  • My next phone is also going to be a Windows Phone
  • Yes I agree with you,as a Lumia 925 owner my next phone will be an Iphone 6.
  • I really enjoyed this article Mr Rubino. Posted via Windows Phone Central App
  • Bingo. Most the articles you note do read more like an op ed than a product review. Your site does a good job of the supposed "we report, you decide." You nearly always finish up with, "Now. Tell us what YOU think." And part of that is the fact that while you have adherents to all the competitors, you treat that relationship with care and kindness. Many of these other sites have no such thing. It is almost always an Apple user or Android user telling us of their experiences with WP. They are no more interested in giving a fair critique than would Cook of saying, "Well, despite our reservations, here's a big phone."
    Part of that is the belief that Apple products have always featured everything from the beginning. I had an iPhone when there were no folders, no copy and paste. I am sure the AppStore sprang from nowhere. I remember when there were no books and now Apple is slapped on the wrist for trying to manipulate the eBook market to maximize their profit and control.
    I have often said Apple could take a dump in a box. TELL everyone they took a dump in a box. And people would still get out their lawn chairs and hibachi to camp outside the nearest Apple store for a week to be the first to have one. This percentage, whatever the real number, is where Apple's numbers will finally rest. The PC market reflects this. My guess is that number is somewhere around 15%. Those who will never consider anything else. I don't begrudge them their choice. But like you I am tired of their constant chirping that they are right and the rest of the world be damned.
  • The Lumia line of phones is great.  That bad thing is that if I want and iPhone every carrier carries each model.  The exclusive deals really suck.  An AT&T customer may want the 5" Icon but can't get it and either has to settle with a older phone or the 1520.  I belive that customer most likely passes by Windows Phone if they can't get the model they want on their carrier.  As great as I think Windows Phone is there are other options and most people aren't really that loyal to a particular OS they want a phone with paticular features.  Microsoft must make sure each of the major carriers are distributing the latest and wide variety of current phones. 
  • Good article!!! But practically for WP it's not same thing that Apple deals. I convinced my close friend to drop iPhone 6 and have Lumia 930. She is interested in photography and die hard fan of instagram. But finally she will go for iPhone 6 just because no time lapse feature in WP's Instagram. Here in this case, not number of apps matters, but quality of apps matters. Android and iOS ppl have many reasons to sideline WP.
  • I have said this since the beginning.  I had nothing to compare to.  WP8 was/is my 1st smartphone.  It does everything I ask it to do.  I don't get jealous of what others have.  Mine does what I ask of it.  Period.  I love it for that reason.  I also love it because it is NOT an Android and especially an iPhone.  Both (especially iPhone) are great products.  Android is in the lead for one reason.  As an OS, it was free at the rise of the industry.  Coming late to the party isn't bad as long as it is done right.  I don't see a shift in market share much.  Each needs to be comfortable where they are and just build great products.
  • Good point, Daniel.
  • I prefer quiet elitism over the loud apple flavour.
  • Daniel, While I can see where some of the merit could be, the problem is many WP enthusiasts already do this to the extreme and to the detrement of the brand.  Case in point is nearly everytime someone brings up a gripe they have with their personal WP, these people with that "single most arrogant, pretentious, and elitist reaction" chime in and verbally abuse the person with the gripe.  "Learn to use your phone", "you are an idiot, the phone is fine", "how can you compare that camera with a WP camera, you must be a moron", "You say you are having problems with your phone, but it's never happened to me, so you are a liar", "You don't like how long it takes to turn airport mode off/on, you suck and deal with it.  3-5 seconds isn't a big deal". With such a small market share, and a community that seemingly devours it's own, I don't see how this would really be a good strategy.  Too many nerd-rage fan boys already.    Why would someone continue to choose WP when the community is so negative and unhelpful.  Just my thoughts.  And before anyone accuses me of it, yes I have a WP (the first 928 sold in my town, to be precise).
  • I have to agree with you... for the most part. Every group has it arrogant and condescending fanboys. I will say that I most often run into "you're stupid" on WP groups and Android groups (I'd say they're about even). When I'm going through iPhone (or Apple in general) groups they are pretty welcoming. Sure I find snarky comments about other platforms, but they welcome new users in with open arms compared to what I find elsewhere. ^could be statistically inaccurate, just my personal feelings and observations.
  • Oh please no! Just NO!
    We already have some OneSheep and we really don't need more. I remember how OneSheep used to chase everyone, who even mentioned File Manager, out with torches and pitchforks right here on WPCentral. I really don't want WP users to be another brainless army that blindly loves everything their divine corporation does and despises any feature suggestions, that would actually improve the system. I hate iSheep and I hate OneSheep.
  • We can be critical both inside and to those outside, no need to be critical inside only.
  • I don't think he means sheep; he just means we should be proud of our phones, even if we are aware of issues we'd like to have a word or two with the MS team about, because we think they are better. We don't have to ring a bell and cry "unclean! unclean!" as we walk down the street, ashamed of our low market share.
  • We can be proud, but not too proud.
    WP has serious issues and the only way make WP popular is to slap the sleeping guys at Microsoft really hard and make them wake up. Almost all Microsoft's applications are better on competing platforms, especially on Android and especially OneNote and Skype.
    Those apps being multi-platform is great, however them being so incredibly outdated in terms of features on WP will not make WP more popular. We need to keep telling Microsoft to wake up and do something about this, instead of just sitting here and being ignorantly proud about our decent, but really not that great OS. We also need the ability to select default applications (including browsers).
    We already have some functions, like that, but only for camera and a few other things. We need a default app option for each file type, so we wouldn't need to see that app selection window every time we open a file that's supported by multiple apps. Why doesn't cortana have a shortcut to bing vision after all this time? We should not claim that WP is terrible, because it is not true, but we should also not try to be so mindless and claim that features like that are "not needed", because it is "just a phone". I am NOT complaining here, because I hate WP. I want nothing more than to see WP succeed. However to succeed WP needs to improve, instead of obtaining some more "proud" users.
  • "We can be proud, but not too proud." Yeah, good luck with telling people here that. One mention of something the competition is doing right or an improvement that could be made to WP or even venting about something that went wrong with your WP and you're greeted by the "GOGOLE IZ EBIL, LAGDROID SUKZ, iCRAP IZ STOOPID, NUTHNG WRUNG WIT WP" fanboys.
  • +1020
  • +(930+630)
  • You're right, but there are two issues with WP perception. You are talking about improving the phone, and Daniel's talking more about improving the perception of the phone. They are not independent; of course the phone's quality will affect the perception, except in the case of sheep. You are absolutely right that the phone needs improvements, which will also improve perception. WP's problems cause a level of deserved lack of good perception. But there's also an undeserved lack of good perception, which is the dismissive way people regard WP with the current prevailing attitude. In fact, most of the people there who snub WP don't know about any of the issues you brought up. This article is more about showing the high satisfaction levels through pride in the device, so the attitude would be: "WP needs default app selection, better flagships, and competitive MS apps...but at least it's not iOS or Android."
  • @DalekSnare Oh trust me, with WP 8.1 out I already keep telling my friends: "WP needs default app selection, better flagships, and competitive MS apps...but at least it's not iOS"... Without the Android part though...
    For me to honestly add "Android" to that sentance WP9 / Threshold will need to bring back a lot of features from the old-school Windows Mobile that are still Missing in WP8.1.
  • Windows Phone needs to stand out and be different which I think it is. It's a hard slog from now on but people will buy into it. I think it's the perception of Windows and Microsoft that needs to change then everything else will fall into place.
  • Unfortunately most complaints WP users have seem to be that it's not similar enough to other platforms, as a lot of new features are just copied from other OSes, to ease the transition to WP (like notification center helps those who don't get live tiles yet; and even occasionally useful, but not nearly as needed as it is on the other platforms).  We still have exclusive live tiles, but we need more stuff like that: awesome things iOS and Android totally lack. But it's hard, since we need to match the other platforms' features (as all the people begging for NC showed) even though, for some reason, people on other platforms don't seem to care that they are stuck with static icons.
  • What if I already shop a whole foods? Am I now compelled to buy a turtle neck? I've tried it once and I don't look good. Any suggestions on alternate choices? ;-)
  • I am so doing this. The phandroids and iDiots will totally freak out!
  • I doubt they'll care about it as much as you do. But, please, don't let me stop you: LET THA PHANBOY FLOW THRU U! 
  • LMFAO! I know, I was just joking. I actually try to avoid those vicious fanboys. They tend to be highly aggressive!
  • Haha It's all good. Trust me, I've seen my fair share all over Mobile Nations. 
  • I really enjoyed reading this. But I act like a Microsoft fan boy all the time. I've convinced so many of my friends that the iPhone is a joke(I'm 15 by the way).
  • I AGREE LETS ALL GET TOGETHER AND FIGHT FOR OUR AWESOME DEVICES!!! In all seriousness I have never been happy with my windows 920 I have convinced many die hard iPhone users to WP and they haven't looked back they like the products as I do and the amount of attention and reliability that you can get with a phone. I work at a call center for an unspecified large carrier and WP users are the least calls I get BUT when they do call on they are the most satisfied phone users of all the systems they are proud that they are on windows and get super excited when I tell them I have one too they are more die hard than iPhone and Android users and never do they have an issue, except calling in about their spouses Android, iPhone or even a BlackBerry! We should all adopt this mentality of our phones are better no matter what maybe then we won't be seen as a minority that does not know their phones.
    Tl:dr Lets be bigger fans than iPhone and Android users!!!
  • I have been using WP since HTC titan, including lumia 920, lumia 1020, lumia icon and lumia 1520. The only phone I missed is the 1020 for its camera. Is there any thing we can brag about windows phone OS or lumia hardward? Which part of OS or hardward is industry best?
  • That definitely brightened up my day and saddened me because most of my friends are so engrained into believing such rhetoric that all day long I hear stories of how fantastic the iPhone is. I'm not so closed minded, despite how entrenched I currently am into Microsoft's ecosystems, that I am unable to see the merits of what Apple has accomplished. If nothing else their marketing team deserves just as much of the accolades as the engineering and development teams. They have so many devout fans drinking the koolaid that it can often be sickening to watch as an outsider. "My screen broke again... oh well, I guess I have one more reason to buy the new iPhone." Whereas when I drop my 920, which admittedly has been an unsettling number of times, I don't even flinch anymore. Not because it's outlived its usefulness or because the newer Lumia's are too tantalizing to pass on but because I'm so confident in its build quality. This is not to say that I cannot find fault in its design, quite the contrary and finally coming back to address the article - the phone itself is huge and noticeably heavy, to which the Lumia/Nokia/Microsoft devout would reply with, "do you even lift?" So, we're not as blameless but maybe a little less extreme in absurdity.
  • I am starting to be dissatisfied with my windows phone experience. After a year, i look at an s3 or at a nexus 4(i have an ativ s, so it's a fair comparison) and i see that they do more, they are faster, especially in areas like multitasking/opening up apps. i'm on the latest updates( wp 8.1.1) and the speed difference is devastating. I'm actually considering, after investing in the platform, of going back to android- the few perks(synchronization between pc and phone one of those) are not enough to make me stay. I'm starting to find it frustrating when i can't play a song on youtube on either ie or metrotube in the background while answering a friend on whatsapp. Or the fact that when i press a contact  the phone instantly calls him instead of going into the details(for reasons, i very often have to send over contact information- but i can't do that over whatsapp, so i have to manually copy and paste it, calling the person in the process) Or the very long waiting times between switching between apps, sometimes they have to reopen themselves even if there are only 2 apps currently open. Or the fact that even after several factory resets i've been experiencing lag on the interface that was not there before 8.1; i thought it was a driver issue that was going to be resolved rapidly, but nothing changed since. I even thought it was cortana and went back to my native language- to no avail. So if they can't take out a way more optimized experience for my phone, i might just sell it and buy some used nexus 4 and have my way with it.
  • In reality it probably is how a lot of people here feel like. Personally I have a 920 and I have an iPhone 4 for work and I don't even feel like I want to try to do anything more with the iphone than use it for work even though I could. iOS frankly is just boring to me yes more apps and higher quality apps but I really don't care, my windows phone does everything I need and more and i personally enjoy the experience.
  • This piece was the highlight of my evening, had to chuckle when I came to the ending. nice touch with the turtle nec reference.  
  • I think you definitely have a point, and we should take it seriously. The apple distortion field (perpetuated by main stream media) continues to buzz at levels as high as they've ever been, their ignorance of the realities of the market increasing even as their share of said market decreases, and it doesn't look like that will change anytime soon. And as much as it iritates me, perhaps it's worth adopting. I'm tired of hearing the daily doom and gloom prognostications about windows phone, spewed mostly by people who haven't spent any appreciable time with a Windows phone device. Screw 'em, who cares. The one thing that does need to improve is the availability of devices worldwide. Other than that I'm more than happy to be in the minority. I'm not going to bend over backwards trying to convince somebody they should love my phone. Posted via the WPC App for Android!
  • While I understand certain irritations, the constant MS hating has become ridiculous.
    It seems to have become an involuntary, stereotypical response - no matter the topic or the affect it has on them.
    I mean, this is Windows Phone Central... are you not fans? What are you doing wasting your time here then?
    If these are the "fans", what do expect out of the pundits?
  • Daniel, just to many comments to go through. Great job I would say if I was your boss. But, you tell the truth man. Windows phone lost some market share the past quarter that we all expected and "your" "colleagues" are almost celebrating. Apple loses market share and it's all about the low cost android devices (not even windows). The truth is that apples loss of market share is FAR more then windows even could have got. The opposite is true, windows is growing slowly and BOY do "they" hate to be wrong!!!!! Really nice piece, one of your best
  • I already shop at whole foods though.
  • Apple right now is in blackberry's condition of 5years ago... Huge fan base and media supported high end tech. Just think what happened to blackberry after this same situation.. As because they were close echo system... That they made both software and hardware they soon loose there innovation... And saturated.. Then there flagship device gave very low facilities than any mid range android... Thats why they gradually loose their market share... I think same story is going to happen for apple.. They r already loosing market share in immerging markets... Now if microsoft let their oem partners to make their own devices together with full features beautifully design windows os they will gradually blow apple from 2nd place..
    1. Ms should upgrade their os more stable more open than now... But not as open as android. So they should think how much they can give their oem partners for customization. But should not allow viruses and malwares..
    2. Continue developing there own lumia line flagships... I think they should change the brand name from lumia to surface.. Or otheres..
    3. Need at least 50oem and atleast 5 windows phone from each oem in different price range...
    Beside these i think microsoft is doing very well in very less time comparatively android and apple.. They started journey from zero 3 years ago... And crossed blackberry and captured third place.. Its amazing...
  • Last line of your article...pure awesome.
  • I'm proud of being windowsphone and windows user, but the apps development in WP is very slow, like instagram, BBM,path, etc. They all crap. Why this is happening to WP ?
  • The problem is that Windows users are the exact opposite personality of Apple users. They are glass half empty type of people who always look for the knock in the engine. In many ways I respect Windows people for being more critical and demanding more than Apple fans are willing to accept, but the consequence of that is an unfairly negative perception of Microsoft and Windows. The consequence of the Apple fans behavior is that they are stuck with a platform that is woefully behind the technology curve getting features in iPhone 2-3 years late and at a premium price. They had the same attitude towards Mac and would pretend that PowerPC was competitive with Intel, they've carried this willful ignorance over to the iPhone now.   By most measures the Mac OS and it's app store have been complete and total failures. In some respects Chrome OS and Chromebooks are far worse. Yet I do not see the negativity towards those platforms that I constantly hear about Windows 8 app store and Windows Phone. If Chromebooks grab .1% of PC sales it will be held up by the media as a massive success, if Windows 8 only reaches 20% market share in 3 years it will be talked about as the worst flop of all time. The media always relishes in the negative spin regarding Microsoft and downplays the positive for whatever reason. If there is one thing I would like to see the new CEO accomplish under his tenure it is to repair the relationship between Microsoft and the tech media so that I can feel like they're at least being judged fairly. Microsoft stock is at it's highest in over a decade and yet this story is barely being discussed amongst the tech media.
  • What I tend to do is point out a few things: 1. That I came from iPhone to Windows Phone, and wouldn't be willing to go back because I prefer the WP experience.
    2. That there are a number of things you simply cannot do on an iPhone that you can with a Windows Phone thanks to innovations like Live Tiles and Live Folders, Deep Linking to content inside of apps (for example, I can easily monitor my important mail folders simply by pinning tiles for each folder inside of a folder on my start screen. Alerts pass through and a single tap lets me see the "lay of the land")
    3. Universal Apps, which are finally starting to reveal their promise thanks to cutting edge developers like those building Tweetium, allow me to buy once and *configure* once for both my PC (Surface Pro 3) and my phone (Lumia 1020).
    4. In general, Windows Phone updates tend to be heavily optimized such that newer editions usually perform better than earlier versions, all while adding new features. Exactly the opposite of iPhone, which gets slower after each and every update (I experienced this for three straight years, across iPhone, ipad, and Macbook Pro. It's systemic to the way Apple makes its products).
    5. Because WP puts much of its data (and more all the time) into your OneDrive account by default, there's almost no risk of losing important data in the event of a phone loss or destruction, even if you've never once synced it to a PC. There are lots of good reasons to go with Windows Phone over iPhone :).
  • hi daniel...iam from india when will expect 830 in india and price...
  • Bring a 935... No SD, 64 Gb internal memory should be enough, and 2 Gb RAM... Keep the form factor, or make it even thinner... Put a full HD screen with glance and 4k video recording... 20mpx camera and 5mpx for the ffc... Make it water proof... There's your flagship
  • Good news guys,
    Apple just sold out the whole stock that has yet to be delivered of the Iphone 6 plus.Apple,one step ahead !
  • Take it nice and slow. developping a good OS doesn't happen overnight. When WP9 is coming on all devices a lot of users will slowly discover the advantage of using a WP-phone next to a pc or tablet with the same OS. Microsoft is leading in OS for PC so the markets will slowly come together. when the world starts to notice, the problem of not enough local apps will solve as more events and businesses become aware of the importance of a WP-app next to Android and iOS I enjoy my windowsphone every day. I enroll the devices within the company I work and some users allready changed form Iphone and Android to WP
  • Bazinga !
  • Serious or not, I'm going for it...
  • I've been grass roots since WP7..proceed.  
  • Most Apple fan-atics have such a warped logic.
    "iPhone outsells WP which can only mean that it's the best."
    Windows outsells Mac, "huh?"
    I think that sums it up. When I fall on product reviews (on Apple worshiping websites), they usually come up with the silliest things to find fault with the item. For instance, in a review of the HTC M8 WP version, one of the cons is that it has "only one color option". That was never an issue with the iPhone though and it will never be an issue with future Apple products, lol. Just like signal strength, call quality, build quality (crackable phones) were never an issue. Double standards.. Amateurish at best.
  • You forgot the corny question that typically close WP Central articles. "So, will you be haughty over Windows Phone?"
  • Maybe it's just because it's 4 in the morning, but the last sentence really killed me XD As for the article itself, I think you make some very good points, but personally I think the "meek shall inherit the Earth" attitude of the WP population is one of the things that makes them so special. And personally I think there is already that attitude of "sales don't matter". WP users just aren't as vocal of their pride in their devices.
  • Apple doesn't care as much about market share as they do about revenue. That's what the Apple defender/fanboy crowd should say and that's the truth. For years, Apple has been unable to get to 10% market share in the PC market, yet they're revenues were better than most PC manufacturers. The only companies that competed with them in revenues were those who modeled their buesiness after Apple's (high end laptops with high margins).   Apple refused to create cheap products to compete with the low end PCs and it refuses to do so with the iPhone as well. A year ago, everyone thought Apple will finally introduce a low end iPhone to compete with the many low end Androids. It didn't. Instead it added a device that was still more expensive than all WPs and most Androids but just a little more affordable for those who really want an iPhone. Their margins were still high (that price difference was offset with the cheaper manufacturing of a plastic phone)   As far as Windows Phone is concerened, the only issue for those who enjoy the OS is Microsoft deciding to ditch it. That won't happen. Microsoft has patience, they also need that form factor as part of their story. Now that their merging WP with Windows there will be even less of a reason to stop supporting it.  It is so important for Microsoft that they've dropped the license fee for WP to 0. The result can already be seen with more OEM support.   So the real question is why do we keep looking at these numbers so much? Is it develooper support? if so, it's the wrong number to look at. Revenue numbers are more important (revenue per user and revenue per app). It's the main reason apps are still iPhone first (there's more money to be made there, even with Android commanding 80% of the market). 
  • Already converted two of three nephews aged 13-15 as I gave them the benfit of how the phone ties into their xbox and Windows 8.1 they'll share with two friends and so on. 
  • Baba
  • Sphincter tickle
  • I've never had trouble shutting up apple and android fanboys with plain facts.
  • It is less about users than the media's perception I am concerned with here. In other words, despite Apple's smaller market share, they command much more favorable attention in the media inspite of the facts. Often, the logic quoted above is used in defense. My question is how do we change that?
  • We're essentially repeating the history of the PC, except Google is in place of Microsoft. MS missed the ball. The only way WP can catch up is to offer something no one else has.
  • Fluid user experience and quality hardware at a low price. Done. But really the truth is you don't need to have 1 massive unique feature to be successful, you need to be good enough at enough things that enough people consider your product as an option. The truth is, WP needs to offer almost everything that everyone else has. Then if the price is right, and it looks good, people will buy it. But this is much more difficult to get right than having one thing that no one else has (42 megapixel camera anyone?).  
  • Yeah. But in the meantime, phones like the MotoG are lauching. Affordable phones with a newer version of Android without the OS-slowing-down launchers.. And MS is doing NOTHING. Exclusive deals don't help either. Hell, I live in Europe. I don't think Microsoft even acknowledges that Europe even exists. Windows Phone DESPERATELY needs an USP. Especially with the app gap that *still* exists. Thank god we got rid of most of the feature gap with 8.1. (although i'm still running the beta over here, so technically still an older product..) Windows Phone does everything any other mobile OS does, but does not really shine in any way significantly. The speed/value for money used to be a pro for the OS but this advantage is shrinking rapidly.  The thing that set it somewhat apart. the "hubs" integration, is something MS is tearing down faster than they develop newer things for the OS. Also, since the article puts Windows Phone next to IOS, think of the (i)sheep mentality. People will generally buy what other people buy and will like/accept something they see more often, faster. Since u hardly ever see Windows Phone on the streets, people don't know what it is (esp. here in Eurpoe where there is no advertising campain regarding WIndows Phone what so ever) and will therefor not but it. MS really needs to step up their game to have those numbers change. And not only in the US of A.
  • Didn't think I needed to add "that everyone wants"
  • Answer: We can't. Apple's fans are a symptom of its success, not the other way around. The fact that Apple pulls in record sales every quarter on their platform feeds this. The fact that Apple's platform is actually very good also contributes to this. Microsoft is chasing marketshare; Microsoft is not a powerful force in mobile. No amount of self-deception amongst fans is going to change that.
  • Answer: we allready do in many parts of the world. It's the US press/media Daniel is talking about. Step outside of the US and you'll see lousy Apple sales compared to Windows (desktop/laptops) and Android (phones and tablets) Record sales? Look at Microsoft sales. Record sales each month, each year. Really only in the US and Japan Apple has a proper share. Everywhere else Android is crushing iOS in mobile and Microsoft is crushing OSX on desktop and laptop. That why it is so stupid, even more for me as a European, to read some articles on US Media sites. Even beyond credible.
  • Microsoft is a very profitable company, there is no doubt about that. But they're profitable in the boring stuff. Enterprise, business, etc. The area driving growth in consumer tech today is mobile, and Apple has soundly trounced Microsoft in that department. It's no contest. And the US is still the most profitable market in mobile. Sure Apple has 11% of the worldwide market, but they're raking in 50% of the profits. Their tools are actually good and very well designed. And they were FIRST. Windows 8 has been poorly recieved; Windows Phone, while excellent was simply too late. In fact with the way Apple operates, it'd be a shame and a sign of a terrible market if they had good marketshare. They are a single company with a small range of products. Microsoft and Google have tens of partners. There is no way Apple will ever have more marketshare than either of them in a mature market. But their plan of owning the experience from top to bottom makes the most money, and garners the most fans. That cannot be denied.
  • In order for WP to get the sort of media/perceptual Midas touch that Apple has, Microsoft is going to have to come up with something as impressive and innovative as the original iPhone was. And, by the way, I hated to type that. lol
  • I agree and it isn't just WP. Look at the deal with NFL using Surfaces. I watched the announcers call the tablets iPad like tablets and have seen on twitter that other games the announcers were literally calling them ipads.
  • I agree with most of your points, but if the media pereption was a fact than people would have never purchased android phones.
  • For that you have to go back and look at the history of Mac VS PC and you will see the origins of the "Apple is cooler than a hipsters suspenders" myth. Macs were seen as being for sophisticated creatives and Microsoft for the everyman. To this day some still believe Macs to be better for graphic design etc. Apple capitalized on this and rubbed that "aura" all over their iPhone. After all would you have rather got the Windows Mobile with Excel and be reminded of work all the time or buy the little slice of promised heaven aka iPhone? Methinks Microsoft needs to find one compelling feature that appeals to the more human side *ahem Cortana* and then proceed to mind screw people with that. Stop pushing the whole Windows thing because all you do is remind me of work when all we would rather be doing is taking cute pictures of our babies on vacation. Give us fans that one thing to harp on about and we will. Apple has sophistication, sell me the concept of an easy life *ahem Cortana again* and people will fawn over it. Be relentless with it because quite frankly when someone says pop you immediately see a Coke (not RC Cola) but when you say Windows Phone... well I don't really see anything. At least Surface had that click thing going for better or worse.
  • For one the apple media perception is great because of 3 things imo. 1: The apps and not only the ones in the app store but all the ones they get before even android! 2: The general public and the media both perceive Apple products as a luxury item. That can be debated to death but there's no denying that's how apple is viewed. 3: "It just works" I asked a few of my friends who use iPhones to sum up why they use them and will continue to use them. 9 out of 10 said their phone just works as it should for them. Now I'm sure iPhones have their software issues like the rest but for the most part there's no major problem. For example can you imagine if iTunes music player had the issues Xbox music had/has? Or if iPhone didn't have an official YouTube or Facebook app? In my opinion the combination of those 3 things has the iPhone being perceived the way it is. For WP to have a chance at that success it needs just 1 feature that no one else even comes close to. Then the users will come followed by the developers. Sounds simple but it will take at least a year after they build something that neither apple nor google has an answer for.
  • News about Apple's iPhone 6 are everywhere. Almost each Croatian website published news about iphone 6, but none of them hasn't published the news about new Lumia device or Windows Phone. Every citizen is amazed with "new technology" but most of them never heard for WP. I think Microsoft should apply much more aggressive advertising campaign.. big billboards, TV advertisement or something like that. Potential customers must be much more informed about WP OS
  • See Apple didn't pay for any of that. Once again people are mixing cause and effect. There's no point in aggressively marketing something that no one wants or needs. The reason the iPhone 6 is all over the news is because people want it. People don't want it because it's all over the news. Microsoft offerings are not sufficiently novel, nor are they sufficiently cool, to garner that kind of response. Honestly Microsoft's problem is one of image, and it's not the fans that are going to change that; it's the company.
  • I don't necessarily think we can take that stance when there are now vendors selling bargain basement WPs. WPCentral reviewed one vendor recently who made a pretty crappy windows phone. I actually do believe that Apple doesn't chase market share. They however do chase profitability. If market share comes with it then so be it but profitability is their goal as it should be. Your chart which shows the hugely successful mac book series still under 10% after all these year supports that. Apple understands that they are the Ferrari of phones with an amazing aura about them. Meanwhile android is the Toyota of phones, high volume with some luxury items (Lexus). I'd settle for Microsoft fitting nicely between them which would mean higher volume than apple but less than android while maintaining a solid quality brand. But let's be honest with ourselves, when we hear Microsoft, we don't immediately think design. Microsoft has always gone after volume while maintaining a solid quality brand. I see them as a company who produces products that allow me to both work and play. More play products these days and I'm loving it. I have no desired for WP to be viewed in the same light as apple as it relates to design but I do want it to be known for having an amazing ecosystem for those folks who want to get shit done and have fun while doing it. This is just my view boys and girls.
  • I agree with your Apple car analogy!  Android - they are more akin to Kia and Hyundai (various models and price points, with their version of a couple of luxury models), in my opinion.
  • No analogy needed, they are simply what Microsoft was 20 years ago. Except, Apple is in the same spot.
  • Exactly, Daniel... That is so frustrating.
  • Maybe we should just start talking to the media? What I'm doing regularly is tweet to magazines and newspapers that I am a happy Lumia 930 customer and ask when they can review my phone. If we don't let them know we exist, they won't recognize us! Reaching out in person is worth more than stats. Don't forget the absolute numbers! We are talking about millions of Windows Phone users out there! Anyone arguing or ignoring these number should read Paul O'Shea on Denialism And don't forget, tweet to them!       What are you waiting for?     Do it now!   Yes, now!       Hello... You will forget it, if you don't do it now... Ok, thank you
  • Well for starters, a race to the bottom was not the best idea. Windows phone is trying to imitate Android not iPhone. I can't remember who said it but someone even said that they were trying to be a better Android. What I'm saying is you can't have your cake and eat it too. Now it mostly needs a second branding like Samsung. But for that to happen it needs a company who puts all the eggs in the same basket. That was Nokia and MS will kill it. I know people are not going to believe that but Nokia would've never launched a new generation of phones without a truly unique feature. Which suspiciously what MS intended to at first but quit later on with McLaren. At best we're looking at a Motorola like success story. But everyone knows it's the Samsung and countless others who drive market share and WP doesn't have that many strong, devout partners.
  • I think we need a "strength in numbers" strategy to get ourselves (and or beloved phone manufacturer or OS noticed by others/media, this is why I am going to be commenting with a new hashtag that hopefully incites a loving or family-like message to all that see it, I would love Microsoft to take notice too, my message to all that look on, is that we should become.... #winbros :)
  • Daniel, would mass emails from upset fans of media and all kinds of technology to the editor and their employees of spoken offending websites? Just like politics, it's no longer fun when everything becomes how much dirt or how bad you can make someone look. I say we take a stand and make a voice against sheer pride and bias to prevent tarnishing the enjoyment of new and beautiful technology and ideas. What about something like that?
  • Daniel, I am with you on this whole thing. From day one, the OS felt logical and fantastic. But, somehow Microsoft is missing the emotional factor. Think of it, Apple released a newer phone, from a building that was kept secret, purposefully created so much hype and then opened the cloth, like a magician bringing out a rabbit. May be thats what human brains favor. If there is anything that MS can do to fix this, is to stop coming with some ridiculous name for a product/service and then re brand it and then re brand it again.... Seriously, who cares if its Windows Phone 8.1 Update 1? Why not simply call it Windows Phone 8.2?
  • Ok my last post certainly showed my passion for WP. But improving awareness and appreciation largely has to been done by the OS as seen by others. My kids have had to make their choice of phones based on what their friends have Most males have WP cos it functions well for them. But girls always have I Phone for IM, face time etc etc. WP must have those features if you are too gain equality. Yes WP excels in other ways, but if you can't directly replace the I Phone features then its hard to take it out of the hands of users. Same with Android, where apps drive kids to have it. All this is because word of mouth sells any OS, Were needed to be able to show others we can match their phones abilities. We raise awareness add users, not the advertisers. The Lumia520 sales are solid, but it is irrelevant because because its only occupying a sector of the market where iPhone is missing anyway and equivalent Android phone are nothing special at this price point. Three middle is where we need to concentrate, and ms breeds to give us the tools to do it
  • Teach me master.
  • Neither have I, in fact I have been able to convert many die hard android fans from my friends circle to try Windows Phone, they go from "it has not many apps" to "the apps are better than iOS or Android" and then to iPhone and Android cannot compete" In fact I believe that Android numbers are only showing part of the story; I live in Pakistan, all the craze here is Q mobile because in $40 people get android 4.4 and most have no clue what it is. Saying 80% market share is only part of the story I look only at number of high mid range and flagships (even though there are those with S5 with no clu of what android is) The android community is using the 80% share to their benefit and keep on increasing the number. What I want from the researchers is which platforms has higher number of flagships of the latest models. I know android would still fare better, but this would give a bleak picture of which platform has how many followers.
  • The new iphone 6 is ridiculous and the white lines on the back looks like a tennis court or it could be iphone 5 clone from China :O
  • Lol!!!.. It is the worst looking iPhone, from the back, yet...
  • Yes,but up to the end of the year it will sell about 80 million pieces,that's about what WP will do in the next five ore six years if it survives.
  • Yeah, we know it's gonna sell like hot cakes, and it's a terrific device.... But, it does look funny.. That's all we're saying.
  • Well to me it looks better than the brick (930) that Microsoft came out with.
  • Just read the news,Iphone 6 Plus are all sold out for this month in USA.
  • Bruno.. You're obviously a huge Apple fan.. But, nobody here cares about if the iPhone sales a lot.. And, nobody here is saying that it's a bad phone at all.. iPhones are awesome, and we all know that.... Now, why are you being so defensive❓
  • Did some one force you to buy it?
  • Did you ever think why Chinese companies clone Apple and not other brands,?
  • Don't you mean naughty instead of haughty ?  .°
  • No, haughty is exactly what I meant. Why are they naughty?
  • Chris Farley flashback....
  • An intelligent, literate american. Hats off to you sir, that was a damned fine article. The problem is clearly mere perception, nothing more. The issue is, as you ask, how do you go about shifting that perception? And of course, the margins on Windows Phones phones with Windows are miniscule compared to Apple's limited range.
  • By getting those who sell the phones to have the attitude that Windows Phones are awesome.  Right now they are far and few between.  They'll try to sell you an Android and/or an iPhone and convince you the WP doesn't live up to the other brands/OS.
  • Its a new word for some people.
  • Not enough of us windows phone users.
  • No.. I am worth more to Microsoft than 20,000 Android users using imitations of high quality Lumia devices...
  • Windows Phone 8+ is the best Smartphone OS ever created, we just need to be proud ;-)
  • Hell yeah
  • Yeah,praise the lord !
  • Microsoft need to make a flagship phone!!!! Stop flooding the market with repeated phones!! And for God's sake ..stop using numbers to name the phones ...its damn confusing.... Btw I'm windows phone user
  • Ding ding ding! Yes...that is what I am waiting on...the Lumia came close...I want at least 5", 64GB base storage with expandabe MicroSD, the camera on the 1020...give me!
  • This. This is basically all I want in a flagship Lumia. And I can't stress having MicroSD enough. If they could fit all that tech in one sleek 5" device that would be perfect.
  • Dont forget Qi, and glance.  I was interested in the 1020 until it didnt have qi and a micro sd or 64gb option. And a qi back cover isnt the same as it being built in.  Then Im forced to use that case.
  • Flagships don't sell in large volume, unless they have a half bitten Apple on the back.
  • LOL. Android flagship phones sell a lot better. Step outside the US bubble.
  • Actually, I reside in the UK, and while your statement is true, high end Android is doing better, the low end segment is what accounts for the majority of their market share. Same with Windows Phone. Apple doesn't even compete in the low end segment, yet they have ~15%. My point is that budget devices are what's going to increase the WP market share.
  • I consider WP as the best one of all. I love the UI&UX and I'd never go back to android nor ios. As for the market share.. Who cares if McLaren has almost no market share it's fast and it's top notch. I own one and it's called Lumia 1020 :)
  • I'll back you up on this one. The best doesn't always go to most of the population.
    But we still should stand up to educate the world on WP
  • Yeah,now you can throw it in the "John" and flush the water,the 930 is out and the 1020 will dye in the next few months.
  • Wife loves her 1020, the camera and zoom on it is insane!! I have the 920 and think it runs great even with Cyan updated, I am very happy with the Lumia's and with the OS...I couldn't think to leave it...I have an Android tablet and hardly use it because Cortana can find everything I need in seconds :)
  • Good,si you speak often with Cortana,do you ever speak with your wife ?
  • I'm happy to root for windows phone, but I also like android albeit not for my daily driver. Arrogance is what makes apple fans hated. Arrogance is what makes apple hated by those not within the apple distortion field. I'm happy that I don't behave that way. Similar to how ps4 fans have also behaved the last few months
    Sheep follow sheep and apple is currently the shepherd. But its been said for a while that its wearing off. But slowly....
  • "Similar to how ps4 fans have also behaved the last few months" Let's not sit here and pretend that Xbox One fans weren't being just as belligerent, lol.
  • No, it needs more apps.
  • Which ones?
  • Every one
  • OK. Now I understand.
  • Yeah,faster ones !
  • @ Daniel - You should write at the end of the editorial that the real question is "How can Microsoft change the media's perception on the company and its products?", we can't do much.
    And imitating Apple fans' attitude is not the right thing to do.
    I think we should point out the unique features of Windows Phone and how the OS syncs well with other Microsoft products.
    As for how to change the media's perception, Microsoft needs to innovate. The Surface made some noise back in 2012 as the first hybrid laptop. Some ideas are: a Windows Phone with a battery life of one week, a foldable Surface that turns into a Windows Phone, a device with a built-in smell and/or texture synthesizer.
    I'm tired of seeing commercials from Samsung or Microsoft comparing their devices to Apple products because it keeps reminding people that Apple exists, that Apple devices are "references" and that competitors have to mention Apple to gain some attention. That's some free advertising for them.
    It's all about marketing. People who own Apple products always refer to them by their names because Apple never said the iPhone was a smartphone or the iPad a tablet - they have created "new" product categories.
  • I agree with this. Daniel admits that taking on such an approach is tongue-in-cheek, and like he said, we shouldn't take his request all that seriously. But his question is an important one: how do we go about changing the inherent negative publicity that Windows Phone gets, despite its high ratings of customer satisfaction? Imitating Apple fans really isn't the option because they, in the very least, have something to boast about. We may talk about lean and responsive the WP operating system is, and how the high-end Lumia phones take the best pictures of any smartphone, but the problem of platform support from OEMs and the dreaded "app gap" both still exist. WP is gaining ground, but still isn't being taken seriously. Using "it's getting better" doesn't sound as impressive of a selling point. We still have a long, long way to go.
  • I liked the article.. Kinda true in many aspects :)
  • You gave me some good laughs with this, Daniel. I'm resurrecting my turtlenecks and ditching my hipster/rectangle glasses for round ones.
  • :)
  • I never liked the attitude of apple fans, they don't accept anything unless its from apple. I don't want to be like them, windows users are reasonable users and always will be.
  • Have to disagree with that assessment of WP users. Lately they seem to be mostly obsessed with specs, wanting top notch hardware for little cost and have forgotten how to actually enjoy the WP experience.
  • This Posted via Windows Phone Central App
  • That's why windows phone is having a hard time. Where's their flagship? Every other one has one. But Windows Phone has the 930? I don't even know.
  • You don't even know? Check out the Lumia 1520 man. It seems like many people forget that it exists wtf
  • Specs are fine; we don't care about those, unless they affect the WP experience. No one cares about the slight speed difference between the HTC One and the Lumia 930. It's the features that make up the experience that matter. Like glance, Qi, sdcard, camera button, and other things that lots of new models don't have, that are integral to the experience.
  • I can't tell that around here. Posted via Windows Phone Central App
  • I was very much a Apple user, I had all the phones right up to the Iphone 5 I switched to Windows because of the size of the phone and the awesome 41 megapixel camera, my eye doctor believes my eyesight improved due to the larger screen but because there is no flagship to match the 1020 I am looking elsewhere and when I can get my hands on the iPhone 6 plus it will be put into the decision as to what to get. I am not writing off Windows entirely I still have my 2520 which is much better than the iPad and of course my lap top and my desk top but I will weigh all options - one thing I am worried about is when I do make a decision Windows will finally have the flagship phone. I could go with the Next Plan on AT&T but I have unlimited data and I am so not ready to give that up
  • Whats wrong with your 1020 to make you want to get rid of it already? I just bought my wife a new 1020 not long ago and she loves it...the iPhone camera won't even come close to the 1020, even sure its not close to the 1520 if you wanted a bigger screen...
  • Does it make phone calls too ?
  • Is your 1020 broken? If not, why not keep using it until a phone you like better is released?
  • If you want to stop an Apple biggot in their tracks, show them the percentage of world wide numbers then tell them WP is much closer to iPhones and closing in than iPhones are to Androids which are pulling away.
  • And when these phones drop, they'll sell in one day what it takes 2-3 qtrs of MS OEMs to sell. Posted via Windows Phone Central App
  • And their market share will still go down compared to Android which leads to WP getting closer.
  • Yeah because that whole .1 gain from WP will kill iPhone market share in 15 years... Posted via Windows Phone Central App
  • Yoiu're ignoring the point I was making but that's fine. :)
  • Their marketshare is only loss in Android gain. Not WP. So no im not ignoring your point. The real point is nothing will be gained from WP. Android destroyed Apples marketshare because it was gained drastically in the low markets. Something Apple underestimated. Apple shares may be lower but sales remains the same. The average joe cares 0 about shares as long as they know they are the highest selling phone, Shares are irrelevant.
  • Look at the numbers. Android went up, Apple went down and WP, albeit very small, went up. So, you are incorrect with your first and second rebuttal. Android destroyed Apple not only because of the low price market but because it's highly configurable and had many more makes and models to fit an individual’s needs as well as other reasons. It wasn't something Apple underestimated, it was something Apple wasn't willing to compete with until the iPhone 5c and that was a huge flop by Apple's standards. So, if we take your suggestion of "shares may be lower but sales remain the same", then Apple would still be losing market share. I agree, typically, the average Joe doesn't care about market share when buying a specific model of smartphone, but consumer perception is a huge factor. Besides you just contradicted yourself in your last sentence...the highest selling phone would be the phone with the highest market share. I can't tell if you are trolling or if you are trying to make a good argument for your case.
  • no, because we have too many models and providers. they have "low" market share, but only like 10 different hardwares (for phones) from the begining... that cuts down on cost... sadly :/
  • Going to replace my Lumia 720 with iPhone 6.
  • We don't give a fuck
  • You obviously do, since you cared to comment lol.
  • I think he was kidding.
  • Seems faster,
  • That sucks, I feel sorry for you
  • It's a fucking phone, relax bro. 
  • You buy a cheap phone and complain about 512 MB ram games and apps and say WP sucks all that talk.
    When you buy the iPhone its the best thing just happened to the world.
    Seriously, stop being cheap!
  • In the WP world, you get what you pay but in the apple crap, it's not like this. Off contract iphone6+ 128 GB costs 1500$ in turkey (our president loves to fuck his people with taxes :\ ) but 1520 ,930 and 1020 costs 1000$. 830 has better specs than iphone and it costs 700$
  • I would never pay $700 for an 830. EVER. That's hardly getting your money's worth.   "...but in the apple crap..."    It's comments like these that make me shake my head violently, lol. You people put so much energy into hating a phone. Hell, some people probably come across this community, see how fuckin rabid the fanboys are, and then choose to avoid WP altogether.
  • I pay 500$ for my new 1320 and I think the half of the price is taxes. Apple is fucking crap because the crappy phones they made cost themselves 75-100$ and they sell it from $700 in America.
  • So if Apple sold for lower prices then you will buy it ?