Microsoft-Nokia deal complicated with recent $571 million ruling from Indian court

There are a few hurdles left for Microsoft to clear they can acquire Nokia’s handset unit. Recently we’ve seen some complaints from Korean companies and interest groups over potential patent abuse that could result from the deal. One little tangle in Microsoft and Nokia’s plans revolves around a manufacturing plant in Chennai, India currently involved in a legal battle with the Indian government. The plant is to be transferred to Microsoft as part of the $7.3 billion USD deal to acquire Nokia’s phone business. However, that manufacturing plant may now be shut down and not transferred to Microsoft. 

On Friday, India’s Supreme Court ruled that Nokia must deposit $571 million into an escrow account before the Chennai factory can be transferred to Microsoft. This is an increase from the $339 million a lower court asked Nokia to set aside last month.

Nokia’s tax troubles in India started in January 2013 when Indian tax authorities raided the company’s offices and facilities in Chennai. Indian tax officials say that Nokia allegedly owed $545 million in back taxes. Those back taxes are allegedly on income from downloads on phones made in India. Nokia didn’t want to pay those taxes because of a bilateral tax treaty between India and Finland.

Nokia was previously cleared to transfer the factory to Microsoft. At the time, the Dehli High Court ruled that Nokia could transfer the Chennai factory to Microsoft if they set aside $339 million into an escrow account for those back taxes. Nokia agreed, but continued to challenge the ruling.

That challenge came to an end on Friday when the Supreme Court ruled that Nokia would need to put $571 into an escrow account before the factory could be transferred to Microsoft. Now, Nokia is reconsidering its options surrounding the manufacturing plant.

The Chennai plant employs over 8,000 people and is by far one of Nokia’s largest factories for making phones. Those 8,000 people may be out of a job when the dust settles from this Indian tax debacle. The Indian tax courts are currently filled with companies like IBM, Vodafone, BMW and Royal Dutch Shell fighting similar back tax claims.

A few possible outcomes now exist for Nokia. If they don’t transfer the plant to Microsoft, Nokia could run the plant as a contractor on behalf of Microsoft. Though Nokia’s laywers say it would be temporary and wouldn’t last long. Nokia could also shut the plant down. Of course, that means 8,000 people in Chennai are now jobless, Microsoft is left without a major phone manufacturing site and Nokia ends up with less money from the deal.

Microsoft and Nokia are working hard to close the deal within the month. However, this ruling from the Indian Supreme Court might be a minor setback.

Source: Reuters Via: Quartz

Sam Sabri
  • Total bullshit.
  • Exactly
  • ..because we shouldn't pay taxes to the govt?
  • I'm all for paying taxes, except in this case their was a deal between Finland and India that took care of those taxes under their double taxation avoidance agreement, and India is basically going back on that deal.
  • Really? India is a democratic country. Courts are not ruled by kings/queens here...there are laws, there are lawyers from both the sides in this case....whoever can prove their side, wins.
  • When a court is corrupt, the side that the corruption is in favor of wins, regardless of the law or evidence.
  • wow. very nice. court is corrupt? prove it. This is not a local court we talking about, do you have copy of the hearing? prove it.
  • Judicial system corruption is well known in India reaching up to the supreme court level, but i'm not going to go to much further into it since this is not the forum for that topic.  There are various areas you can research this, but I will leave one link and you can draw your own conclusions from that.
  • There may be corruption but that's during criminal trials involving rich and famous..
    I think there is this gray area in the treaty between India and Finland that leads different interpretations. And ofcourse Nokia interprets it as no tax and India interprets it with a $500miltax
  • Yeah, I see no reason for corruption here. Then again, multiple countries have these agreements, and Finland has them with multiple countries as well, so far India is the only one where there is trouble. Now Nokia needs to negotiate with Finnish and Indian officials, and get the paid tax-money to go to the right country.
  • Courts are corrupt in cases involving 2 parties none of which is a government... Govt doesnt pay bribe to judges !! Don't malign india for no reason. Its fine, companies do evade taxes at times....
    P.s. Just for info of our us friends, i dont suppose our judges have anything to do with political parties...
  • Before you conclude something it would have been good if you had tried to research what the case was about, see below, in one of my comments I have mentioned the summary of the case.
  • If you say Indian Judicial system is corrupt and well known that means Nokia can easy bribe the judges and win the case..isn't it ?? btw India ranks 94th in the list of corrput countries in the world out of some 177 countries, and all sorts of negative things are "well known" because the media in this part of the world is dam powerful.
  • You're Indian. Can't blame you for being on the defensive. But what wapoz commented is true. India is one of the Asian countries that has some kind of corruption in every level of its society.
  • but not at the level people think it is we live here , we know better its not a land of snake charmers or something neither does everyone only say namaste its the most underrated and exaggerated country ive travelled nearly every popular country and they all have corruption to some extent just that the corruption in some countries isnt as visible as ours plus supreme court and a few courts a bit lower have zero corruption , too much security
  • Supreme Courts do not have zero corruption in India. They are less corrupt than other courts. That said, I don't know if this issue is about corruption or about extortion. India has pretty low personal income tax rates and a huge majority of Indians do not file or pay taxes; among the ones that do, only those in the service sector actually pay the right amount. The government makes money mainly by taxing companies, specifically multinational ones that can be bullied by listing arcane laws. 
  • The funny thing about corruption, is that it happens in every country.  The USA is no different from India in this regard.  The only difference is that the USA pretends that it is not corrupt.  (And no, I don't live in India.  I live in Canada)
  • Ow come on. Every court has chances to be corrupted. It's human nature. Look. If they take the drastic measure and close down the factory (and take the risk of Microsoft loosing one of big factory but less payment to Nokia, and Nokia themselves take less payment since they don't sell that factory), India will have to think about those unemployment issue. Sudden 8000 unemployed is not small thing to look away from.
  • How can a freaking SUPREME court be corrupt? That is totally uneducated statement. Are you saying the supreme court judges are corrupt? You do realise that this is the point just below Presidential ruling for India? So everyone in the administration is corrupt? That's bullshit.
  • The U.S. Supreme Court, once upon a time, ruled segregation legal. Courts can be corrupt.
  • Money corrupts, and this sounds like a judge, or even the country, wanting more money from either Microsoft or Nokia...
  • Even the U.S. supreme court is corrupted. Everyone knows how the judges will rule. Those appointed by repubs vote one way, those appointed by Dems the other + one swing vote. Could it be any more clear that rulings are made based on political affiliation, rather than what would be just or in the spirit of the law? Just the citizens united ruling has screwed up the U.S. political system beyond what most thought was possible. No, supreme courts are just as corruptable as any other court.
  • The US Supreme Court is political, of course. These people were appointed by various presidents. The difference is that the background checks conducted on judges and cabinet members is pretty stringent and so are the disclosure requirements. It's not easy to get away with taking money or gifts. Also, the press in the US is much more powerful. Notice how quickly Bob Mcdonnell was charged after he left office? Something like Watergate would be a temporary embarrassment for the Indian PM, but got the President impeached in the US.
  • Political - yes. Decisions based on their perception of the morals of the day and by their read of previous decisions - yes. Occasionally corrupted by money and influence - possible but not as likely. And there are a few on the US court currently who fail to recuse themselves where they have previously stated or involved positions (by themselves or their wives) - inexcusable!. Going back to the Indian Court decision - it doesn't seem like "corruption" so much as a financially biased decision without regard for the entire consequence for the decision, especially in a world of multinational companies who are themselves financially driven.
  • Unless Supreme court is composed with Angels, the chances for corruption always exist. :3
  • supreme court is the level just before the president , if there is even a hint of corruption,the people involved get screwed immediately so yeah no chance of corruption there
  • Lol. Next. Your going to say your leader is an infallible angel.
  • Why you so mad? Are you from India or what? Chill's just a third world country, that wants some money after 8000 people will lose their jobs.
    Who cares if they are corrupted or not, that is not the point.
  • im from india and will not stand bullshit about it from other people like u  u idiots dont know sh*t
  • If this is indeed unfair or corrupt in some way, then neither Microsoft nor Nokia will want to do business there in the future and will simply pull out.  If however Microsoft and/or Nokia makes an effort to settle this and continue to do business in India,then they must not fear the business/political climate there.
  • India is crap
  • Agree! It's a corrupt shit hole! The whole system is corrupt. Nokia / Microsoft should give them the finger!
  • They ll take it if its worth 571 million :D
  • Lol... Yeah xD
  • u sirs are dumb idiots , stereotypic people who believe everything from the internet
  • Agree. These idiots don't even bother knowing some basic facts about a nation before smoking off that produces nothing but offensive and racism comments... Such retards, never believed I would meet them in a decent place of tech-talks like WPC.
  • lol nigga, just guess where you're also from for us... just who I should believe, a thousand internet guys saying india is hopelessly corrupt or one internet guy claiming otherwise...
  • I get thousands of news about Aliens detected in US over the internet as if they have a special interest there, so should I believe that or judge by some common sense that the largest search engine belongs to US? And stop saying India corrupt, it is the government and political parties but not in this case. Every nation's government is corrupt, only the degree of corruption varies. If you can't agree then at least comment some sense.
  • I'll "comment some sense" then:
  • And where's your comment?????
    Your reply is not even a reply to my comment.
    The article in the link is probably written by another inhuman racist like you. Every nation has their dark sides, no one is perfect. Wisdom lies in being optimistic and see the brighter side. Tell me the country you belong to and see what I can discover from the junk...
  • That's an incredibly stupid thing to say. India is corrupt, yes. So are most other countries in the region. Well, guess what? None of these multinationals went and setup base in india not knowing that. In fact, the whole reason is to exploit low wages etc. in these developing countries. They're playing in the same filth and tend to be just as corrupt as India and other countries. We don't know the entire story here.
  • Sadly I must agree. They are always gambling when they work in other countries.
  • U from Brazzers or what?I get serious when someone says things abt something which he doesn't know.Agree India is deeply corrupted but so is every other country.And the world already where the crazy maniac criminals live.U call ur country better and civilized than India.If yes FCK U N UR COUNTRY.Just look at the present situation of ur cntry.Crime rates are increasing day by day.We are better without your bullshit.It is because of ur western culture that India is getting worse.Sorry if i hurt ur citizens but i wont keep quiet if somebody abuses my country.Jai Hind.
  • You take that finger and stick it up your own arse!!!
  • I can also say your country is crap too. Its very easy to abuse.
  • exactly stupid racist people here
  • Injecting racism into nationalism... You appear to be the stupid one.
  • Oh come on. Even the Indians overstay their student visas and never leave the USA. Corrupt even as a child. They also buy blankets at Walmart when they have a visitor then return it the next day. How is that honest?
  • ^these are the types of stereotypical comments that get you Banned on WPC. I hope you were being sarcastic.
  • Lets  calm down everyone. I've lived in America the beautiful for 40 years. Thanks to my school St. Vincent's High & Technical, Asansol, India. After watching many western movies at the Durand Cinema, I was determined to get out of the corrupt country. Especially when I tried to get my nephews birth certificate from the municipal office and the clerk wanted a bribe. My father said its not his fault, he has a family and dosent make enough money. So, the problem is over population, women not educated which should be the first priority. I can go on......but just to tell the brothers online, if you come to America and join the celebration, you will never go back. Guaranteed.
  • yeah thats why i love the way they spy on me and stuff i mean wow ur also indian but such a naive comment,come on , matru bhoomi ko aap kaise thukra sakte ho jab yeh log uske baree mein galat baat karte hai aapko sharm aani chahiye ki aap galat logo ki taareef kar rahe hai
  • If you think everything is someone else 's fault, then you will suffer a lot.
    - Dalai Lama
  • India is not crap and many of us are not insulting it. Your views on its politics are fairly ignorant though. It happens even here in the US.
  • Kind of like ruling Formula One is entertainment only and not a sport which effectively killed the Indian GP all over a tax grab. So you're right, no corruption at all. Nokia is not alone is this scheme.
  • India tried to tax retrospecively.  In other words they lied about their tax policies and then changed the rules so that revenues from previous years were now subject to higher taxes.  Many, many foreign companies were caught in this net. Frankly, this will drive a LOT of business out of India, specially Chennai, which is one of the most corrupt places I've ever seen.  And I live in Beijing. I'm sure by now you'll have heard the joke doing the rounds all over Asia:  Why are there so many Indians in Singapore?  To make the Chinese look good.  India is now the most corrupt nation in Asia.
  • yeah right we believe u our dear forum troll 
  • Have you seen the details of the treaty?  OR just basing your argument based on what is reported on tech blogs or news sites?
  • ^^ this. I dont get these people. Why are people getting mad at Indian Govt? If Nokia owe taxes, they need to pay...Period.
  • Except that there is a tax agreement between Finland and India that Nokia were abiding by. So they were doing what they believed to be right.
  • yes, there is but this case is out of tht agreement. please again check ur fects and for more details or the actual legal thing go here
  • If they don't owe taxes, they don't need to pay anything. Period.
  • Guys stop abusing the Indian judicial system without knowing the fact. Legal battle is a lengthy process in India. Nokia wanted to complete the Microsoft deal as soon as possible. So the court has asked Nokia to wait till the final judgment or deposit $571M in an escrow account before completing the deal. If Nokia wins the case, it will get back its money, if not Govt will. I know you all love Nokia (me too), but that doesn't mean you can abuse something without knowing the facts.
  • I have a feeling that omkar n's statement is an accurate representation of what is happening.  
  • +2520*1520*1020*920*820*720*620*520
  • Omkar is Correct. It is an interim arrangement till the case is finally closed. People who are calling the judiciary corrupt are ignorant and know nothing about law and legal process. People should refrain from making derogatory comments on topics they have no knowledge of . Pity these morons.
  • yeah his comment is the most sensible so far
  • Maybe not corrupt but completely insane. Ignorant you say. What about those accepting that there's rape going on every day. I call that ignorant, cavemanlike, lowlife men with NO HONOR!!
  • once again dont generalise about stuff u dont know
  • 683,000 adult American women un U.S.A. are forcibly raped each year. This equals 56,916 per month; 1,871 per day; 78 per hour; and 1.3 per minute. Now what? Where's HONOUR? And once again I would agree with Karthik, don't dig into things you know nothing about... BTW rape cases has nothing to do in this case...
  • exactly atleast in our country everythings reported unlike his 'perfect' saintly country where they treat women with 'respect   right thats why we have lesser divorce rates and thats why we dont have to deal with 7-8 exes look at ur own country first
  • True. We hardly hear of 2nd wife or 2nd husband here. Perhaps only one in thousands of marriages or so...But in his country, changing wives and husbands are like changing clothes. Everytime they quarrel, get bored of or just because can't enjoy enough liberty....
  • His country... Don't talk if you know nothing about it ;)
    I'm not living in the US.
    BTW, a man committing rape have no honor whatever country he lives in.
    It's the insane verdict's in India I'm referring to... If you support that there's got to be something wrong with you. And why should we believe that the rest of court system is any different?
  • umm are u retarded?? READ before u post bull rapists are a55holes but that has nothing to do with this and the rates of rape are equal in ur country too so stfu  Have u heard of taxes?? u pay them u see
  • Man u got me wrong. It was against the honour and respect I meant, not for. Read above comment again... Why won't you believe in the first place??? You don't live in India and don't have any idea how long law procedure takes here (which obviously is something even I would stand against its the reality) Nokia was in hurry so encountering this problem. Other makers had met the same fate before too (like Vodafone IN) but it was solved pretty soon. If you go deeper in the matter, you'll realize Nokia too had a major fault this time.
  • exactly its so sad to see racist idiots try and judge our country while sitiing behind a computer and reading bs on the internet
  • Karthik
    Racist idiots? Are you mentally disabled? Any court in any country that's not taking proper and right action to protect the people are not worthy of respect.
    At least Gautam makes sense, you don't. Take off your blindfolds.
    And... I don't care if the color of someone's skin is black, white, brown, yellow or whatever.
    It's what's inside that matters to me, not outside looks.
  • have u even read ur own comments??? ur mentally disabled not me , ur the one being racist not me, ur following stereotypes not me as for ur remark- "Any court in any country that's not taking proper and right action to protect the people are not worthy of respect." who are u to judge?? u dont even live here , its a totally different circumstance get ur facts right and learn to READ and stop being racist READ ur own comment and tell me u dont find it racist and misleading  get a life and get ur facts right or stop using the internet and dont mislead and talk bs
  • why the fk are u trying to judge him , xaphoon? u have no right to say such things,he is talking sense unlike u  
  • ahahaha, you "forgot" to put the indian statistics so we could compare (hint: they're way worse)
  • I already told it has nothing to do with the topic but mind you its not worse, anyway since you're so interested, here it goes- Congrats my American friend for winning the 1st trophy. Don't forget to close the door when leaving.
  • guess which country is flooded with immigrants from the place ranked in second... how does it feels to live in a rapist-exporting superpower?
  • Guess which country was founded by immigrants and stole the country from the local people (hint-ur country)
    As for the rapist thing , ur women sleep with at least 20-30 ppl in their lifetime and not all Indians do that only 1-2 in a million
  • Bro are you blind or mentally disabled? Or just born a jerk? How does it feel to be in a rapist importing country with highest degree of rapes per day already done by their own citizens? We don't have those pubs and clubs for people who look "civilised" and "decent" having another face during nights. Whatever is done here,is reported. Unlike yours where hardly any reports are made by the traumatized victims. And for the feeling part, yes it does feel proud to live in the country with best culture (you may not know what it is), innovation and amongst one of the ultimate IT power in tech world.
  • Of course its bull shit and at the end of it only the 8000 poor workers will gets screwed by their own goverment when the plant is shut down. WTF is "back taxes allegedly on income from downloads on phones made in India" that is the biggest pile of made up crap I have heard. If I was Nokia I would tell them to fuck off with these bullshit claims.  
  • All of those want the deal not to happen, what would you think of your beloved Nokia if they shut the plant down leaving 8,000 people jobless? Or are you guys so heartless that it doesn't matter?
  • Do you want the harsh truth? The one I bet many will be too coward to speak? Here it is: I couldn't care less. Those 8000 jobs were created at the expenses of European workers losing their jobs just because in India Nokia could pay less for the work. I'm sorry if I have no sympathy for it. Even less when they might lose the jobs because of their own Government. "cheap always comes at a cost". (post scriptum - please, spare me the hypocritical self-righteous comments...I have no patience for false moralism)
  • ^^this!!!!
  • People aren't too "coward" to speak that, they just aren't as stupidly insane as you.
  • The truth bothers your hypocritical little mind doesn't it? Try to be a little bit self-righteous.
  • This comment doesn't even make any sense as a reply to mine, you are definitely insane.
    I view Europeans and Indians alike as humans. You don't deserve these jobs any more than Indians do. It sucks when humans lose their jobs. Now, continue with your own self-righteousness behind a computer in your comfortable home.
  • There's little point in explaining things to someone who is determined to not understand them. Yes, Indians are people just like Europeans. And precisely because of that, because they are EQUALS, they are subject to the same problems as others. Europeans lost their jobs when factories moved to India. Now Indians lose their jobs in favour of other people elsewhere. It's because they are equals that they don't deserve a special pity for this. Even less when it's their government that is breaking treaties to try to extort money from foreign companies.
  • And where did I say that it didn't suck when Europeans lost their jobs? It sucked then, it sucks now. Don't try to wave around this false dichotomy. These workers obtained jobs that cost others their jobs, but how is that not applicable in a multitude of scenarios? If someone works hard at their job and replaces their boss, does that mean I am not allowed to care if they lose their job? These people have done no wrong, they are in their situation because of external circumstances – actions of their government and Nokia. Oh, and Mr Lawyer On The Internet? Go look up a dictionary sometime, since you clearly don't understand words like hypocritical and self-righteous. No pressure, big words are for grown-ups!
  • Those people who lost their job in Europe (and anywhere) also because of external circumstances. So what's the point?
  • Nowhere did I say that it was exclusive to the Indian workers. The point is that it is insane to attribute external circumstances to the workers, which is what you are doing when you are discrediting the sympathy of others. Try to actually comprehend arguments in future, instead of failing to nitpick.
  • For once I agree with you... But you're still a douche...
    Also stop telling people you're a lawyer it doesn't add to your credibility.
  • +1520 ^this^ but Indians aren't equal, they're below and backwards.
  • Wow, you're one dumb ass. Who brought you to the 21st century?
  • Goodness gracious it was a freaking attention seeking comment to stir things up hahahah you guys are so ready to call someone out! Its too cute to watch
  • Dafug did i just read?!
  • Looks like MicrosoftWinPho has some sorta special enmity with India. Maybe doing a degree in Raciology and India is their current topic LMAO!
  • And what made you think so? Get back to 2014 bro and get a life out off racism too.
  • Racist
  • How do you know who is breaking the treaty?
  • Insane? Is the world insane then? We're on a large rock that is just circling a large ball of fire, and what do we do? Put an irregular price on everything we can possibly think of. One worker costs more than another one, just because of location of that same rock I mentioned earlier. Due to that though, a "treaty" if you may, was forged between Finland and India to subsidize the taxes to make more jobs. Nice gesture, but it looks like India is pulling out, not on the better-half of the workers' jobs, but because they want more money. The real ironic part is, if Nokia does close the plant down, well, doesn't that mean they get less money due to 8,000 people not being able to pay their own taxes? I'm not sure how it is over there, but here in the States, we can get money for something like this from the government itself... Can I get a glass of irony?
  • Why are you talking about the Indian government and Nokia? I am talking about how insane it is to dismiss sympathy towards workers losing their jobs because of some screwed up narrative you have built in your head. And no, a severance package or welfare is not the same as having a job. I am not Indian nor do I live in India.
  • Yeah we get that. It just that this sympathy does not need to be special to the point we need to express that. It happens when it happens. Sympathy? Sure. But that not what we discussed here at the first place.
  • Q: Or are you guys so heartless that it doesn't matter?
    A: I couldn't care less. This is the exchange that started this comment thread. It pretty clear from the answer above that DJCBS believes they don't deserve any sympathy, and he goes on to consider any such feelings to be either "false moralism" or "special pity".
  • Well said... harsh but true.
  • Now I know why you're called a douche!
  • around here.
  • I couldn't care less for what self-righteous people and fanactic-fanboys call me, as you may imagine. Specially when they never ever present counter arguments. Just insults. ;)
  • You're such a liar. Last time we argued. Not only did I counter your argument. But I won with facts..
  • So, are you admitting to being self-righteous or fanatic-fanboy?
  • judiciary is independant in India n keep ur bs with urself, if battery of best lawyers is not able convince the court then it means nokia were at fault. if u had studied the case u wud hv known whats the issue abt, but then its all bit technical, u wont understand anyways
  • I'm a lawyer my friend. I very very likely understand this case much better than you. Specially judging by your poor command of the English language.
    Division of powers doesn't really work the way you think it does, you know? Next thing you're going to tell me North Korean courts are independent. Not even American courts are. There's always politics behind everything, specially the judicial systems. Be it in India, Europe or America. You'll learn that one day if you bother to actually study law and political science ;)
  • LOL, so what you have written is english? I wont stoop to ur level n indulge in personal attack.
      understand this then, or if you are a lawyer better go n fight the case for Nokia or advise the counsel of Nokia since they seem to be struggling to convince the courts. "Section 115A of the Income-tax Act, 1961 obliges an Indian resident to deduct a 10 per cent tax from royalty payments to a foreign company. Nokia India has been paying Nokia Finland royalty for software downloaded into the handsets made in India. Nokia India is admittedly a resident of India. Unlike in case of import of goods, including machinery, where the Indian tax authorities have to establish a business connection in India in order to be able to tax a foreign company, there is no such onus as far as import of technology, borne out by payment of royalty or fees for technical services, are concerned. The very fact that the royalty is related to use of technology for manufacturing goods or services in India for earning income in India is sufficient to make the foreign company cough up tax in India --- no matter where it is located or where the technology was passed on to the Indian resident. It is immaterial how the technology, the handset software, was imported. The Indo-Finnish double taxation avoidance agreement does not help Nokia either. It also concedes that a 10 per cent withholding tax can be deducted. The only point of contention is whether Nokia Finland passed on the technology in India. But then this is immaterial, given the overarching provision in the Indian law that presumes a foreigner’s connection with India as far as royalty earnings are concerned. Nokia cannot invoke the mutual agreement procedure to sort out the dispute, because that procedure is available only for business income of a Finnish resident in India, whereas the present dispute is about royalty.
    but if, for such downloading, royalty is to be paid, the Indian government will demand its share. How can the Indian government put its shovels into what apparently is foreign income? To this the Indian tax laws’ answer is the connection with India ---- Indian companies are downloading the software and thereby making their products marketable and enhancing their profits, aren’t they? And this stance of the Indian tax law derives sustenance from the UN model which swears by the source rule of taxation. India says the source of the MNC’s income is in India."
  • interesting, I've not seen any details on the issue.
  • i suspect if a real lawyer will defend or argue based on the wpcentral article.
  • @DJCBS ur a lawyer of some other country where the laws are totally different so dont talk crap  if ur that qualified why dont u come to india and fight for them and then talk dont get me wrong i love my country , i love nokia and microsoft and i hate corruption but when someone talks bs i must correct it
  • Absolutely, I agree with you. But this is called business and every company works in a direction to gain more profit. "cheap always comes at a cost"??? really??? Indian Govt is right here, why should they give tax benefit to Nokia???? How are they different then other companies who paying their taxes on time????
  • Go read the article.
  • Read the article????? Why? Is Sam Sabri Nokia's lawyer or the article is publishing the hearing or the article is mentioning the actual link that describes the fin-india deal??? You go and check your facts first.
  • "Why should India give a Tax benefit to Nokia"... hmmm I am not really sure if you read the god damn article. It states clearly India and Finland agreed on a tax treaty. Taxes are payed bi-anually for finnish companies. You want no tax benefits for companies? Do not sign an agreement. End of story.
  • Why you guys are mentioning what article states? Does the author of this article has court's ruling? Does the author is Nokia's legal representative? Does Nokia is saying that they are getting the illegal treatment in India? Only morons like you can believe on these kind of articles and make conclusion that a company not paying taxes is right... they transferring the ownership and it is no brainer that all past dues need to be clear before this can be happen. You can keep reading these articles BUT Indian Govt is correct and every company need to pay taxes they owe.
  • So not paying taxes is the right thing to do? No multi billion dollar company has any ethical grounds or morality to talk about if they want to make money by not paying what they owe. They agreed on paying relevant taxes at the start of business and that is what they must do and keep those 8000 people in jobs too. If Nokia is as good a company as your comments have tried to tell over few months in pas, they will pay what they owe and close the deal.
  • This is not a question of not paying taxes. It's a question of the Indian Government breaking unilaterally international treaties with countries (in this case with Finland) and trying to take unlawfully money from those companies.
    Neither Nokia nor any other company should pay taxes that aren't due. If the Indian government insists on breaking international treaties - which they can - then they should also accept that the companies start refusing to obey posterior laws they come up with and eventually close factories. If the Indian government wants the money, they can take over the factory. But they can't force neither Nokia nor any other company to pay every single new tax they create to suck money from them after breaking an international treaty.
  • Thank god there's someone else here who understands what's going on.  
  • And highly paid qualified lawyers of Nokia are not able to put this simple point forward :) they should hire dcjbs now as their counsel, isnt it ;) Nokia actually has to pay, issue of contention is how much, thats what Nokia n tax authorities are fighting over.  
  • Your right.  Those 8,000 workers may have to feel the pain that so many workers in the U.S. and Europe felt over the last 30 years as factories jobs were shipped to lower wage countries.
  • This sounds like sour grapes. European fat asses asking for more pay for less work is what created this migration of jobs to India and China in the first place, where billions are ready to do more work for less money. This is globalization, my friend! No use bitching about it in forums, grow up and learn to work harder and faster in the globalized world before you become obsolete. And for sympathy for the workers part, don't you worry, Nokia can't just let go of 8000 people without a real good severance package, due to the pretty tight labor laws in India.
  • You know, the difference between "European fat asses" and some people in India, is that we "European fat asses" have a thing called "Human Rights". Something that India (like China) is in no place to give lectures about.
    We "European fat asses" don't see nor treat people like tools. We don't force people to work on a almost-slave regime. We've long evolved from those barbaric times. And India will too, one day. One day the people of India will start to reclaim their basic human right of being treated by their employees as people with the right to be justly compensated for their hard work. When that time comes - at it will come - just like in Europe, those who exploit others will be the ones with their asses burnt. And believe me, India does not want to go through a French Revolution.
  • I wonder who will make iPhones from that day onwards. You are on borderline racism btw.
  • iPhones are all made in China, not India, so they'll likely continue to be made in China.
  • Can I ask how? Have you been to India? Unless you've seen it first hand you can't compare. I have. And its quite sad aand a little embarrassing. Competition is high there and people are willing to do something for compensation when other won't. Its a privilege. On one hand westerners are "pampered" to a high level of dignity in labor and other countries fight for the chance to work a torturous and unsafe/healthy job
  • I agree with this point. Cheap labor, long working hours without overtime is very cmn in India.
  • Where does KFC, Adidas, Nike, Pepsico, etc. get all those fancy resources from? Apart from the branding, who makes those products they sell at sky-high prices across the world? It is people from places like India, China or Africa who work their ass out yet don't get sufficient credit from USA or Europe (depending in the company). If it is an Indian company, the workers work in a much better manner than in a foreign company. Please do some basic research.
  • @DJCBS yeah right u are A SAINT thats what u guys are, go back to that shell u came out from read some history between certain countries and ours then ull see ur own comment and groan with past ignorance ull are more barbaric than us and dont talk about humanity bro u lack that
  • That was a racist comment dude.. I apologize on behalf of this guy to my European buddies..
    Regarding the ruling, all I can say is Indian judiciary system is not much corrupted yet..The Indian govt- completely corrupt and screwed..that's why we Indians are trying to get rid of this moronic govt. (General elections in 2 months )
    I hope the new Indian govt. Is less corrupt and takes care of this mess.
    Peace :) Posted via the WPC App for Android!
  • There's an old saying that goes "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."  I wish you good luck in getting the government you want, but as we have experienced in America, once a government gets too well-established (and I'm not talking the people so much as the institution), it becomes impossible to affect change with a change in leadership. Real change requires revolution, and even then, it doesn't always work, as fear and uncertainty often drive the people back into a system they'd grown comfortable with, no matter how much they hated it.
  • Unless you chopped out every one in current generation, I don't think the election will do any good. We in Indonesia already trying that couple of times, and while the corrupt people leave, the corrupt governance system stay. But nevertheless, I pray for our success (we too will held elections next month).
  • Now its the Indians that are getting fat. Look around. India is #1 for new cases of diabetes. Everyone get off your asses and start walking. And yes, I believe IT is asking for a $500 million in bribe. To be split amongst now fat ass Indians.
  • Not everyone are getting fat buddy, its just the politicians. And as far as the statement 'India is #1 in diabetes' goes, you do realize that the population of India is second only to China, right? More people = More cases of diabetes. Please refrain from using the word 'Indians' (i'd be more comfortable if you used 'Politicians' or 'Government of India') i get the feeling that you are cursing the entire population of India for the mistakes that the Indian politicians make.
  • The Indian government is not for the people or even by the people. Unless there are big changes Im afraid things are not looking good. Nokia is not the only company being blackmailed. You can't change tax laws on the fly. I apologize for the rant, being an Indian myself.
  • Yes, i admit that the government of India is corrupt. I feel that Our laws are kind of discriminatory in nature and not to mention are outdated. We need a total overhaul (of the judicial, constitutional and governmental system)
  • You speak the truth...dolts can't see it, but then, they're dolts.
  • As cold as it sounds... You have a point... It's just the way the world works... They really should be blaming there own government.. It seems as though India is trying to shaft other companies as well...
  • we blame wherever necessary and support wherever necessary man,ur points are valid and stuff but here the ruling is clear and not corrupt otherwise believe me even we would have blamed them im not saying theres no corruption at all but its just overrated... dont take my comment in a wrong way i know ur not a forum troll unlike a few others :)
  • Is it not the common goal of businesses to minimize expenses and maximize profits? If so, Nokia didn't do anything Apple or Google isn't already doing to save money. Honestly, your statement really show what Nokias bottom line was, and it wasn't the Finnish community having jobs provided to the community,so don't blame Indian's for Nokias choices.
  • While I take your point, of course indian workers deserve our sympathy. If workers in Europe had been less parochal then they would've exported the trades union movement and indian workers would've have been less ripe for exploitation - and now abandonment - by business. This is an important reminder of the profit motive and what it does to human beings.
  • +920 IWW
  • Though you are right, I believe there is no motive behind this but the government trying to mint money from foriegn companies. Don't you see, they have them cornered. They either pay them or risk loosing a manufacturing site.
  • Isn't it the objective of big companies like Apple, Android, and Google to save money by subjecting the chosen group of people, Indians in the case to lower wages, less benefits, and receive tax incentives as well by moving their plant from Finland to India in the first place? We could argue this point forever, but the fact is that Nokia knows they owe some dollar amount in taxes and could have paid the 300+million some time ago, but chose to fight it and they are now facing 578m tax bill instead.
  • I never said Nokia did not owe them money. I don't know much about that, but the thing is this is common practice here and Nokia's issues with the government arose to this international level only because so many are following the story. 
  • I totally agree with you, may be those 8000 people did not have to loose their jobs, maybe they went on to do something more productive and the work remaining came to India because some things must done by people, that which India has a lot. :)
  • Ummm. It is a multinational company. There will be outsourcing of Jobs. According your argument, nobody outside of Finland should work for Nokia. After all Finland first, European second
  • Well
    A) a person who is middle aged now, if you take away his job, that is worse than keeping a youth jobless, the youth can find something to do, can somehow sustain himself, but a middle aged man has to sustain a whole family.... You destroy a family if you take his job
    B) the same work in Europe/usa would take less men, more machines.
    C) how would you cater to Indian markey demands from a European/american factory ? Import phones all the way and double their price ?
    Believe me man, it isn't that easy...
  • yeah true that
  • Well said. While many feel sorry for foreign workers, nobody speaks of the ones that lost those jobs first in the company's homeland.  
  • Yey yey! I fully agree with you.
  • @morpheus coz u ppl are fat idiots who sit around trolling and insulting countries for no reason get a life fatso
  • +1320
  • It doesn't matter! If the trade agreement with Finland and India says they did not have to pay the tax and now are trying to change the agreement. The Indian government is going to be responsible. We know the deal is not as good for Microsoft if they do not have a well established location and employees to invest in. The point is everyone is worried about the jobs of these,people and not paying attention to the fact the government is putting thoughts jobs in jeopardy. Not Nokia ir Microsoft! 500 million dollars is tons of money and they want to continue to tax them after this is over!
  • Well .. If they did, why not blame the government? They are the one who drove the company to do that :(
  • Honestly, as a former programmer who lost not just one job, but THREE jobs to Indian programmers because it was so much cheaper to pay them than someone in the US, I could care less if 8,000 Indian workers lose their jobs. Besides which, what do they need with Nokia, when Vonage is trying so hard to get all their business.  :)
  • Well .. I have the opposite from you. I get my current job because my employers unsatisfied with Indian programmers they hired (just ones that they hired, so don't generalized that Indian programmers are bad). It just about supply and demand. Don't hate them for that.
  • I appreciate you as a programmer, but I have a simple statement for you: when Toyota move its automobile manufacturing plant from over seas to San Antonio TX, do you think residents of SA, wanted those people to lose their jobs? No, they were just glad to have the opportunity to get descent paying jobs in their communities. The same is true everywhere. I don't think anyone wishes that others lose their employment.
  • Maybe it's coz we are more efficient and much more skilled and don't demand much
  • I would think that, as all companies in a similar situation, they made a decision that benefits the company as a whole, thus better preserving the remaining jobs.
  • What a mess.
  • Nokia should have paid their taxes or disputed it much earlier. Taxes are paid annually, not bi-annually.
  • There were no taxes to pay because of the tax agreement between Finland and India. Now it seems India's going back on the agreement (as it is with the countries the other manufacturers in dispute are from) and trying to claim that there is owed tax.
  • Link?
  • This article?
  • First of all article is not saying tht the court is treating Nokia differently. For more specific legal facts check this
  • Why dont you defend Nokia in the court if you know better thn the Nokia's own lawyers who couldn't defend the case????
  • I applaud you, you won the dumbest idiot on the planet award. May I remember you that india is corrupt as fuck? How would you defend a company in a corrupt case started by a corrupt greedy government? Stop being that patriotic dumbass and start thinking for a sec.
  • You are making perfect sense and only smart ass alive...all the other multinational companies are dumbest idiot as well...not sure why these companies want to do their business in a corrupt country. Corruption, politics and business, not sure how well you understand these concepts. But I believe you should reach out to all these dumb companies and explain them how right you me you will get a real applaud :)
  • May I ask you how old you are? 12? Your comments do not make any kind of sense.
  • wow Forc3 you're kinda of a jerk....  rahul.sharma's points make perfect sense and you really don't have to be so freaking insulting.
  • Whoa whoa whoa. Corrupt I agree. Corrupt than most I agree. But corrupt as fuck? Thats an overatatement. FYI, its not like Court has vendetta against MNC. even indian companies like Kimgfisher and Sahara are in Court over disputes. Do u have a copy of Indian Finnish Tax agreement or the Court Ruling. If not, please refrain from making such drastic comments
  • This article itself refers to the bilateral tax agreement between Finland and India that prevents companies from being taxed twice on the same income. This is what the Indian government has gone back on and is now trying to sue for.
  • Why don't you read this article?
  • Judge: after hearing nokias defence lawyers (nik rolls and others) points i am ready to declare my judgement.. Nokia will pay 571 million for the time being.
    nokia: what?
    judge: 600
    nokia: but??
    nokia: whoa!!
    judge: 800
    nokia: hmm
    judge: one thous....
    nokia: okay okay we ll pay.
    judge: case closed.
  • ... ok?
  • What if the final answer be ... "OK. We'll .... Close the factory." ?
    I'm curious to know what will the judge and the government say. Neither side of the outcome affect me. So just my curiosity.
  • No one wants to see Microsoft succeeded and that's BS!
  • Well, if I were Nokia I would pay.
  • No you wouldn't.
  • Geez...
  • So transfer some money and move on. Lets go.
  • Half a billion man. Where is Nokia going to get this money from? They can't just go around throwing half a billion considering they're in a whole right now. WP didn't pay off like they imagined it would so they needed to sell.
  • What you talking about? Paying taxes is not throwing money.
  • Except that in this case, the taxes in question are unlawful.
  • umm no
  • @nik rolls unlawful was when ur country stole our countries riches and plundered it for 2 centuries so stfu
  • I already said I was not from the UK. Learn to read.
  • we still dont care sh*t abt ur racist remarks
  • When did I ever make a racist remark? I was stating how media in any country will favour home ground when it comes to international issues.
  • Secure the deal, borrow it from Microsoft from the agreed amount. Microsoft pays that much less money from the total price. Call urgent investors meeting, re vote.
  • Money rules everything.
  • If they search for clemency, they might still keep their jobs and work under another company.
  • The Indian tax courts are currently filled with companies like IBM, Vodafone, BMW and Royal Dutch Shell  India Goverment , greedy much ? 
  • Corrupt, and greedy I suspect. Don't ge me wrong, I have not looked in to the details of the Nokia spat, but from the article, it seemed to concern taxes "due" on money mad from downloads to phones that were built in India. Cheeky as hell. If I was running any of those companies, I would get together with the others and threaten to pull out. If, that is, the tax requests were for some less than appropriate reason.
  • If it was that easy they would have won. The fact that it went all the way to supreme court and not one lawyer could prove it to be unfair tax, means it is real and unpaid. Laws are written and open for all to know. So not much grey about this.
  • If there was rule of law in India , this wouldn't have been to court in the first place . There's an agreement between Finland and Nokia that precludes Nokia from paying the so called taxes , the Indian government wants to sidestep that agreement
  • I hope you have a copy of court ruling or copy of the agreement that clearly states this kind of business is tax free? I am on your side and not sure who hired those idiot Nokia lawyers. Man, Indian govt is corrupt and ignoring the law in front of evryone... where all the other companies are watching this as well....India is in trouble man.
  • As far as I know, this amount being put to escrow (571M) is just a guarantee so when the case is over and IF India IT department won, then they can collect the amount afterwards. Also, if Nokia agrees to put up this amount in escrow, then the Nokia to Microsoft turnover can proceeed while the case is still being heard. The case has NOT been decided yet and therefore India IT do not own this escrowed money. The problem is Nokia doesnt have that much money to put in escrow. They actually agreed before to put in escrow 370M (around this amount), while appealing this amount to the supreme court. But the Supreme court made matter worse for Nokia, instead of 370M they increased it to 571M. Again this is only an amount to be set aside and NOT as a payment to India IT since India IT has not won the case yet.
  • yup, I believe this is accurate
  • I'm curious... Does Micromax and any local manufacturers also pay the very same taxes? Or does Google did pay the taxes? Their devices (Android) is able to download software. Pretty much the same situation with Nokia where Micromax equal with Nokia, and Google equal with Microsoft who provided the store.
    And if not, what kind of download tax is this? Can someone enlighten me?
  • umm micromax is a local company not foreign
  • Both sides need to come up with a compromise instead of trying to strangle each other.
  • Well, when one side keeps changing their desires for a compromise, its pretty hard for the other side to compromise. It's like you agreeing to buy a car from a buddy for $500. So you pay him the $500. But before he gives you the keys, he says you actually home him $200 more. You agree, but before he gives you the title, he says you another $200 again. See where this is going? The agreement/compromise was $500. Anything beyond that is extortion.
  • 8,000 people jobless, thanks to the government, because the logic gonna be shut down the plant!
  • So? I dont know where you from but if you are in a business you need to pay taxes...whats new here?
  • Read. The. Article.
  • It is not about paying taxes.  The Indian government changes their mind at every turn. They want Nokia to put money in escrow for taxes.
  • I have a feeling. Maybe this tussle has been on for several months and the 370M amounted to 571M after increased interest on the principal amount. Had they paid it earlier, they might have had to pay 371M ONLY. But since they delayed, the amount increased to 571M and it will continue to increase with passing time. Maybe that's the case. I am not sure.
  • I don't know where you are from, but randomly changing tax requirements and asking a company to put supposed back taxes in an escrow account is called CORRUPTION.
  • Yeah CORRUPTION in bold!
  • Here in the UK it's what we call "Creative Accounting" :P
  • @spaulagain and so is illegal spying 
  • You always bring this over and over again. Can you provide a link that states that Micromax and any other local manufacturer pay this so called "download taxes"? I'm curious as hell here.
  • I dont know whats your point here. But Nokia found guilty and need to pay what is due on cannot argue that you want to see other business's paper if they are doing the same when court lawyer proved you guilty. This is not an excuse at all. for more legal details read here
  • Well ... The thing is, both argues that each side is right. So both must prove that. The govt said Nokia is not paying the said tax. And since this is not a unique business, this tax surely applied to other who did the same business. That's the logic. The same logic like if my govt want to tax my income, this should be based on the rules. And since the rules say so, then others should also pay their income taxes.
    If Nokia have to pay something that others don't have to, doesn't this sounds like an extortion from the govt side? Does this looks like the govt DID give special case in Nokia?
    Btw, I'm not saying any excuses as this not affect me at all. I'm asking about the tax itself for my own curiosity.
  • Dude , micromax is a LOCAL company , taxes are different for both
  • Micromax is an Indian company vs. Nokia is a foriegn....they both doing buisness in India but under different laws. for example, I am also working in US but it doesnt give me same rights as a US citizen. I hope this helps.
  • If Microsoft really wants the factory, they can pay for it. But chances are, Microsoft already has another factory in another third world country in mind as a backup plan. And Microsoft shareholders aren't likely to want to sink more money into a deal they didn't really want in the first place.
  • ^This! Yeah, go to the Philippines!
  • Why are you so racist? Can you kindly not use terms like "third world country" every now and then. That is not so good of you. You might be very knowledgeable but using such words just subtract from your knowledge. Use better words please. @mrvhin1216 That is so sinister and racist as well. You seem to be willing to victimize any other country but yours.
  • That's not racist, lol.
  • Then what? Three dimensional gratitude morpher?
  • How do you know about mrvhin? What if he did from Philippines and like it if Microsoft built factories in his country? You're the one who generalize that all people here either from India or western countries.
  • Pay everyone of the 8000 employees a $20000 severence pay, fly the bird to the government.
  • There are a few hurdles left for Microsoft to clear "before" they can acquire... Missing word.
  • Growing pains. Specially when taking over an existing business. Oh well MSFT just have to pick up the tab. What the hell what is 571 million to MSFT? Bill Gates should pay it from his personal bank account.
  • You kidding right?
  • No. I am serious. Didn't Gates give away 30 billion to charity a few years ago. He may as well give Nokia a small bail out.
  • Yeah. Bill would totally give half a billion in cash to a corrupt government, just because he is such a polite, nice and handsome guy... /s
  • unlike u who doesnt understand the term - not ur country 
  • If it were me I would have already shut down the plant and told the court that if they want to put people back to work they'll play nice.
  • I dont understand why people accusing Indian government here. Why should Nokia be given that tax benefit???? If they owe the tax, they need to pay...if you doing business in a country, you need to follow the rules... Is it that hard to understand for the people going nuts here????
  • Can't you read???? Is that too hard to understand????
  • First of, why should nokia pay? There is an agreement between india and finland. Both parties agreed that tax is going to be payed bi-anually. Nokia plays by the rules India is not. You want those People to have jobs? Stop being that greedy POS, srsly.
  • According to my friends from India, they tell me the government is corrupt and underhanded.  They'll do anything to bring big business ventures into the country, and then penalize them with huge dollar amounts to get lots of money out of them immediately.  All that will happen is that all big business will stop doing business in India, making it much more hurtful in the long term.   I'm not from India, I live in Canada, so I'm just going by what my Indian friends here are telling me.  They said stupid things like this are the reasons why they left India and have no desire to live there ever again, despite loving many things about "back home".  
  • I am an Indian and all I can say is whatever you have been told is 100% true...This current govt. Is corrupt as shit.. Posted via the WPC App for Android!
  • I left India in 1974. Boy am I glad.
  • we are glad u left , dont need ppl like u here
  • umm no 90% NRIs leave here only coz they couldnt make it big here but thats not my point  my point is the govt may be corrupt but the judiciary in India is separate from the govt which means corruption isnt prevailing here atleast in this case otherwise it would have been an uproar here believe me
  • Can't Supreme court see what's coming next?? Is that hard to understand?
    Its about 8000 people, and N number of indirectly employed people.
  • Law enforcement cant be done with emotions
  • What it seems like is happening is that the government isn't playing nice. They don't want the deal to go through so they are putting more taxes on top of what they owed without proper justification. But I don't know the details, that's just how i see it
  • You must not know how to read. Nokia was abiding their tax responsibilities according to the treaty between India and Finland. The Indian government then decided that wasn't enough and requested they magically owe some 300m+ taxes. And now, just a month later, that amount has suddenly grown by 200m. Magic. The corrupt Indian government is creating a moving target and expecting Nokia to pay taxes based on the random number of the day. That is the Indian government being assholes, not Nokia evading taxes. India can take those 8,000 jobs and shove them up their ass! :)
  • I should read article? Why you guys are mentioning what article states? Does the author of this article has court's ruling? Does the author is Nokia's legal representative? Does Nokia is saying that they are getting the illegal treatment in India? Does the article mentioned the actual link that describes the fin-india deal? Does that deal describes this kind of business is tax free? Only morons like you can believe on these kind of articles and make conclusion that a company not paying taxes is right. You can keep reading these articles and make your baseless conclusions.
    I believe all the other multinational companies are dumbest idiot doing business with India...not sure why these companies want to do their business in a corrupt country. I am on your side and not sure who hired those idiot Nokia lawyers. Man, Indian govt is corrupt and ignoring the law in front of evryone... where all the other companies are watching this as well....India is in trouble man. I believe you should reach out to all these dumb companies and explain them how right you guys are.
  • *facepalm*
  • I don't know what's wrong with this dude, but he seem doesn't understand English...
  • atleast he makes sense compared to the other idiots on this page (not u)
  • You could try following the source links, that's what they're there for. Also the links in this comment:
  • i think you should read the actual legal facts and what happened in the court.
  • Which is an Indian publication and therefore has the potential for a lot of bias.
  • And why should we follows Niks dear USA publications?? They will write bullsh*t anyways
  • I'm not from the USA and have no US publications. I'm just saying that if from the perspective of India there is a higher potential for bias, because when it comes to international issues papers tend to back their own country.
  • bullshit bro,whatever , uk usa whatever country u are from , fact is uk no longer rules india so yeah pretty much doesnt have a say in this u troll
  • I'm not from the UK either. When did I ever say the UK has a say in this? And how am I trolling? Maybe you should look up the definition of the word. Let me break it down for you. Use my country as an example. In New Zealand, the main readership of our papers is (surprise) New Zealanders. So if one of our publications ever sided against New Zealand, they would be alienating their readers. So the potential for bias on international issues involving New Zealand is high, partly because the paper wants to keep their readers happy and also because of the patriotism of the writers. Now take that last paragraph and replace 'New Zealand' with 'India', and any non-troll will see the logic of my argument.
  • Although I believe Supreme Court being fair here as all the big houses, media houses are watching the case and chances are very slim that they will do something out of the laws. And like it should be clear by now that the amount is just being put aside and will be dealt in correct way once the court order is out...if nokia wins they will get this amount back. I agree with you, like any other country, media can be biased, no doubt here. And yup, you are not troll :) all intelligent discussions are welcome.
  • alright fair enough but ur other comments are still racist and bs
  • I never once made a racist comment. I was stating how media in any country will favour home ground when it comes to international issues.
  • How do you know Nokia was abiding their tax responsibilities? Do you have any proof? Nokia has accepted in the lower court that they owe 300m+ taxes. Indian Govt is not Google. They don't care who buys Nokia. They just want Nokia to pay their dues before completing the sale. And about those 8000 jobs, I am pretty sure the regional govt will take care of them.
  • The regional government? you mean the TamilNadu Government? Hell No !!! The lady that governs my state is as corrupt as any other politician in India. She would definitely not take care of the 8000 people who lost jobs. She even has two or three "Land Grabbing" cases slapped on her.
  • No. They not accept it yet. That 300 was an escrows. Not tax payment. But right when Nokia agreed to provide that much escrow, the court raise it to 500 while the case is not even concluded yet. What kind of decision is that?
  • To kurotsuki,
    I will explain it to you in a simple way...
    Tax dept raided Nokia office and based on the documents found it filed a case that Nokia owes 500m+ tax.
    Nokia approached High court and pleaded to let it finish the Microsoft deal.
    The court told Nokia to wait till final judgment or put 300m+ in an escrow to which Nokia agreed.
    Not satisfied with the lower court, tax dept approached Supreme court and argued that Nokia owes more than 500m.
    Nokia wanted the MS deal to finish as soon as possible. But the Supreme court ordered Nokia to wait till final judgment or secure 500m+ in an escrow.
    Supreme court didn't fix the escrow amount on its own. The amount is based on the documents submitted by the tax dept.
  • Nokia didn't agree to anything like that, they just put money aside until the end of the case, so they could move on, the case still isn't settled, the supreme court now just wants Nokia to put even more money aside, to be held until a ruling can be made.
  • Supreme court didn't raised the escrow amount on its own. The amount is based on the documents submitted by the tax dept.
  • Did anyone notice UC browser lets you type Bing in without going to the built in app.
  • Lol.
  • My country is corrupt alright fellow friends...... But what a treaty means is what it means to u not us that really concerns you...... So for whatever diligence u might have of us, or of our negotiations irrelevant of price or quality of results we both gain...... We honestly believe we are both fucked.....
  • What?
  • Man, people need to read the article again.
  • I say shut it down. Fuck India. They can lose those 8,000 jobs for corrupt bullshit. Its sucks for Microsoft and Nokia, but ultimately they should just give India the finger.
  • Microsoft will have to way the fallout this will create. Like the gov't keeping Microsoft from selling wp's there in the future. But I'm sure if the gov't gets the tax dollars, then they will exepct it in the future, which Microsoft won't like.
  • Don't generalize. Say "Indian govt is the biggest shithole", not "India is....". That's obnoxious.
  • Well said. India is the biggest shithole, there ever is!
  • @spaulagain fk u and should give nerds like u the finger or no wait two fingers on the hands of every indian to u , u dumb racist troll
  • "one little tangle" is a bit of an understatement.   But the deal will move on nevertheless. 
  • This sort of thing will keep other companies from building or keeping factories in India. Huge mistake on the gov'ts part. Tough road ahead for the Indian people if this isn't stopped. Any business transaction these days has verbage in it that deals about outstanding debts.
  • The Indian government knows Nokia and Microsoft wants this deal to be over asap so they're using all kinds of shady tactics to extort money out Nokia . This isn't the fist time, a few years back they wanted to use the same tactics to extort money out of Vodafone. The Indian government has some of the worst anti-business measures of any country. Lots of Non-Indian companies are,learning from how Nokia is been treated.
  • Is it Indian Congress leading the charge of corruption then?
  • There three arms of government ( judiciary, legislature and executive ) , judging from the level of corruption in India it could be any of the three or a combination.
  • When the corruption is widespread. It usually plagued all three arms. At least that what happen in my country.
  • no the judiciary is SEPARATE from other govt agencies and the supreme court is highly secured
  • Typical Indians. Corrupt to the core. The Indian legal/justice system is a joke.
  • ^this^
  • Not "typical Indians". I accept that the judiciary and administration in India is a farce, but not India as a whole. There are many great things about this country that many of the Americans and Europeans would like to envy.
  • yeah plus their own governments dont trust them and love spying on them and they call our india names
  • Im sure that MS has plants already in place that are capable o manufacturing phones. So I would just tell the Indian government to take the plant and shove it.
  • MS will not let this ruin their acquisition
  • the deal will be completed with or without this factory, it does not complicate the ms/nokia deal in any way. Nokia will just close the factory and move on. There are other factories to use for making devices.
  • Nokia should not pay the taxes.
  • Ready to pay $1000 for Lumia made by European workers?
  • They already cost that much here in Australia (almost) ha
  • I'm sure half of Microsoft's board are upset about these hurdles.
  • escrow account..... why? sounds corrupt to me I say shut it down and sell it for scraps how dare india try to extort half a billion dollars from anybody i am sorry to say this but this should backfire... big time if i were on the board of microsoft i would weigh cheap labour vs half a billion dollars and give up on cheap labour.... people get decent wage, nokia-microsft deal get closed
    win win in my book
  • ...then why is the Finnish government keeping mum now ? They should step forward to clarify matters up.
  • there is a double taxation treaty between india and finland because of this nokia bruhaha... finland is actually trying to renegotiate it
  • this is out of question here....just so that you know whats happeneing here
  • Thts a 620 ..ohoooo...
  • My dear foreign friends, first get your facts right. Then start arguing. I am from India and i agree that government and politicians in my country are totally corrupt. But judiciary is not so. Maybe because of your limited knowledge about my country, you are talking such bull shit. Ignorance is forgivable. But try to get your facts right before continuing the meaningless arguments. In India, it is not as easy as you think for the judiciary go play such a spoilsport only to support corrupt government. Specially when the whole international community is watching. With due respect to all my friends here, let me say you have no idea about our judiciary.
  • +520 +720
  • I'm really saddened by anti India comments here.. Calling court system corrupt, if judgement isn't in favor of you is silly. I'm sure nokia is well represented by top professional lawyers and matter is complex than some people think here it is. Even we would love to see MS Nokia deal go through..
  • I just made a comment about this very topic and it does seem offensive. Keep in mind however that I did work for an Indian company for over 2 years and I've seen a lot of bad practices in that time. Its very subjective and limited in nature I know but it seems all too common there.
  • Its a problem but that government seems to be looking out for working families. Hard to get mad at that. Unlike the US, where people are treated to be as disposable as a used AOL floppy disk. The crap google got Korea to complicate the deal with is just some scroggle crap.
  • I applaud that analogy, AOL disks were a dime a dozen back then! Lol sad but true
  • Guys stop abusing the Indian judicial system without knowing the fact. Legal battle is a lengthy process in India. Nokia wanted to complete the Microsoft deal as soon as possible. So the court has asked Nokia to wait till the final judgment or deposit $571M in an escrow account before completing the deal. If Nokia wins the case, it will get back its money, if not Govt will. I know you all love Nokia (me too), but that doesn't mean you can abuse something without knowing the facts. .
  • Absolutely.. Problem here is that people don't know complete picture and are jumping with their abusive comments..
  • And why is the previous sum that already agreed by both party suddenly rose nearly half of it?
  • The plant itself likely isn't worth more than $250M with about $100M more for added expenses, which is why Nokia readily paid the escrew of $339M, upping it to $571M makes the risk - reward -ratio quite different.
  • How did the ruling jump up by 200 million?  That's a pretty hefty sum to suddenly show up. 
  • Call me evil and shortsighted, but from a business perspective including as complicated as this deal I'm not convinced keeping the plant and its employees would be that good for Microsoft. If MS played its cards rights with less manufacturing plants and more concentration on the other less "troublesome" plants they could both avoid bloat AND possible overstock issues if keeping it meant a set manufactured unit number. I'm all for creating jobs, and companies are always envious to save money but from first hand working experience with one of the biggest IT companies in the world based in India I can say the motives seem great but end up leading to problems not just with service and manufacturing but with the corrupt government it all comes with. I'm trying to stay civil about it and I know it may be offensive to some but its just an opinion. What are some thoughts on that? (I'm opened minded and always ready to admit I'm wrong so lets discuss)
  • Thank goodness we don't live in a shithole like india. Half of india has left by emmigrating to the west or the more civilised parts of the world.
  • Thank goodness I am not "civilised" like you...
  • +920 Oh, by the way omkar n, welcome to Windows Phone Central.  You've not been here too long and haven't posted much.  I hope your overall experience is much more pleasant that this rather unfortunate thread is showing itself to be....
  • Thank you, WPC rocks. My day starts with it.
  • +920 welcome aboard!!  unfortunately some people are really being jerks...
  • You cant call a country a shithole. Every country has got its own problems and they are dealing with it. India deals with corruption I agree and Finland deals with the worlds largest depressed and suicidal cases. And mind it Indians are working as high ranked in major countries. Talk about ms CEO or talk about Obama's head of his personal medical team. So think before you say.
  • Hey shit Eater. .which country you belong to?? Get educated, get a life you moron.. Posted via the WPC App for Android!
  • I dont even feel like replying to people like you.. _|_
  • @ak_r7 u mentioned ur indian above , i think not and ur some weird a55 forum troll
  • The population of Indoa is 1 billion. So unless ur saying 500 million have emmigrated, uv got ur facts wrong
  • Okay, Mr. MicrosoftWinPho seems to be going over the top now. Initially I thought DJCBS was the most pathetic out here but you seem worse. At least he talks sense and listens to what people have to say, which deserves respect. But you, Mister, need to be slaughtered straight away for such ominous statements.
  • Dont' take it that serious bro. He's just a troll wondering all around and making comments without sense...
  • I usually like eating pho for dinner but you are already a POS.
  • Its not complicated...just pay the money and be done already...or don't and close it.
  • But they keep changing the amount that is owed. When will it stop? When the Indian government has decided they've padded their wallets enough?
  • Nokia did agree on the first escrow on 300++. The problem is that now it's nearly doubled to 500++. I wonder who cause the problem here.
  • The documents submitted by the tax dept.
  • dup
  • Why is the account Escrow? If Nokia has to pay tax it has to go to go to the tax authorities, the tax authorities can refund with interest later. This escrow account looks suspicious :(
  • Why suspicious? Escrow option is safe for both parties. Whoever wins the case gets the money.
  • It is in escrow because India IT has not won the case yet. It is just a money to be set aside in order for the Microsoft-Nokia deal to proceeed. The problem is Nokia India do not have that much money (571M) to put in escrow.
  • First off, yes I agree that Indian government is corrupt and this is just wrong but to those retards up there saying Indian people are below and backwards (you know who you are), an average Indian is most likely more educated and smarter than you. If that's you're definition of backwards, than fuck yes we are backwards. Get your shit together now.
  • "The dispute with Indian authorities dates back to a €250 million ($346 million) tax claim against Nokia, mainly relating to taxes that the authority said the Finnish company avoided by wrongfully claiming an exemption on software exports. The total tax bill also includes claims that the tax authority has not yet made. On Friday, the Supreme Court asked Nokia to pay the earlier tax demand and provide a deposit on its guarantee for future tax liabilities of 35 billion rupees ($570 million), although liabilities could be higher. Nokia needs to make the payments to get the factory unfrozen."
    Nokia didn't appeal to rule out the tax claim of $346 million but only to exclude the guarantee deposit of $570 million for future tax liabilities. It just proves Nokia to be guilty in first place. Am I missing anything here?  
  • You are missing everything. Go read before you comment. This is not the tax case.. The Tax case will take 10 years. Nokia wants to sell the deviced building center to MS but the tax guys are not allowing. Nokia even told tht i have other assets and that they will pay taxes if required but they dont want to allow the sale till Nokia puts the money in Escrow. The govenment is bad.. I am indian and like congress but they have to lose elections and all deposits for all seats. Nokia tried to get the release for the factory to be transfered to MS. that is all this is about. Not the exact tax case..
  • This is essentially government-sanctioned extortion; they're pretty-much saying, if you want to move on with your sale, give us more money, or else we'll block it.  Yes, the money would be going to escrow, but WHO would be holding that escrow?  Would the financial institution be under the rule of the Finnish government, the Indian government, or the WTO? If the money is being held by an institution under the Finnish government or the WTO, then at least Nokia has some confidence in the fair rule of law, because either of those regulating bodies will make sure things are above board before releasing any monies. If, however, the funds are to reside in an Indian financial institution, then Nokia might as well kiss the money goodbye, because no matter what, that Institution, backed by the Indian government, can always refuse to release those monies, or so substantially delay the release of those funds, that they have plenty of time to profit from the capital influx. If I were Nokia, I would be demanding the funds be held by a neutral third party, and that litigation be transferred to the World Court, since this appears to be a case regarding international trade agreements.
  • Finally, some intelligent discussion!
    I agree that the disputed payment needs to be put into 3rd party escrow. It could be a long tail risk.
    None of this should hold up the MS deal. It is an outstanding litigation, and therefore should already be factored into Nokia's accounting with suitable associated provisions. Similarly, it should therefore also be part of Microsoft's existing due diligence valuation. Moving the cash to an escrow asset shouldn't be a major task. This asset would transfer with the deal if relevant (ie. if the potential liability is part of the scope). If, for any reason, it isn't yet reported or provisioned by Nokia (I haven't bothered looking up their last accounting disclosure, and its not necessarily representative of their current accounts) then it would now need to be anyway, irrespective of the MS deal, because its good accounting practice and Nokia is a publicly listed stock.
  • And people like you can abuse countries because it shows your mindset and your upbringing. We Indians treat humans as humans not on the basis of a country or something. I think people like you actually are backward and illiterate.
  • Can I get that phone?
  • Are you mad bro?
  • //That challenge came to an end on Friday when the Supreme Court ruled that Nokia would need to put $571 into an escrow account before the factory could be transferred to Microsoft. Now, Nokia is reconsidering its options surrounding the manufacturing plant.// Nokia would happily do that... --- $571 ONLY :D
  • Yay
  • Anyone who can comment is an Expert, they know every detail of a legal dispute and can say any nonsense.
    Welcome to the internet.
  • It's time for Nokia to appeal this to the World Courts (WTO), and perhaps file a counter-suit of their own against the Indian government/tax authority for damages resulting from the inability to conclude their sale to Microsoft, as it would appear these Escrow demands are placing an undue burden on Nokia and are directly interfering with their ability to transfer their legally-owned property to another entity. Some would even call it "extortion..."
  • Agreed, I'd go nuclear if I were Nokia or MS. Or whisper, "do you really want us as enemies?". Scare the crap out em.
  • India is a mix of capitalist and communist ideology. So finally no one gets the benefit. Neither the big companies nor the poor. Tax evasion issues are now being brought about daily in India. Accountability is improving.
  • Who knows, may be google and samsung is playing behind all this bullshit to destroy nokia. I hope Nokia wins the case. It is not gonna make much difference if india govt get that 576 million $, that money is gona go to some retard politicians pocket. hmm... :/
  • i see nokia did not send mpnthly bribe to officials
  • Troll alert
  • India is corrupt i agree and i am an indian!! I don't know how many of u know but a similar thing happened with Vodafone case where the amount was 2-3 times more and the government changed the tax laws with retrospective effect forcing Vodafone to pay the taxes.....and yes India is corrupt #peace
  • bro a thing u should google first is that the Judiciary of India is separate from the govt get ur facts right
  • lol. Seems I joined at the wrong time. 
  • I don't understand why I see so much racism in this place. An artcile stating a hurdle how soon got converted into a sensation of racism, sadly, by educated and civilised people only. First of all, read the article again (for those commenting without having an idea about the topic) and then also realize, its not the whole thing which looks ugly to you. I too believe, Indian government is corrupt, not to mention most of the governments are, they only differ by how much they are in so. But stop confusing it with Law courts!!! It's not yet clear (even from the article) why they almost doubled the amount. Isn't that obvious a corruption can't be done so easily when the deal is international and everyone over the glabe have their eyes on it? I also don't see why Finnish government is so calm about the matter. You can't clap with just one hand, remember.
  • yeah exactly dont forget their system is different than ours as well something they dont seem to understand
  • Agree, they are judging indian government by the policies they follow in their countries...
  • Retroactive taxation is an evil and corrupt way to act towards companies, anywhere. I have little reason to think this goes beyond that very simple fact. I'd drop everything in India rather than pay 1rupee of this bogus 'debt'. India does not deserve tax on APPS BOUGHT ON PHONES MADE IN INDIA. Case closed. Plant too apparently.
  • Proud indian always doing ungaali baazi how I Dont want nokia to be absorbed by MicroWsoft like company
  • Woah, there is a full scale comment war going on. These back tax cases will drive away alot of employment from India. As they are not asking for a trivial amount of money. Also every one has a price under which they will buckle, its human nature thus corruption will always exist. Furthermore to increase the amount to almost 600 million from 339 million which had already been agreed by Nokia is just taking the liberty. At the very most they should have been happy with 339 million.... now they will have no money and 8,000 unemployed. Bravo, what a stupendous move #sarcasm.
  • I guess you didn't even read the comments. If you had, you may not include "At the very most they should have been happy with 339 million....". And mind you, nothing like unemployment of 8000 people is going to happen.
  • I did but not all, however comments are opinions of others not hard facts. The fact is if Nokia chooses to shut down the plant then that will become a reality. As far I can see that is the cheapest option on the table at present as it doesn't complicate the deal and Nokia don't have to shell out 571 million to put in an escrow account to transfer the plant in the immediate future as this is not a paltry sum of cash and I'm not saying this issue will go away either (it will most likely continue for a long time). Also they have a factory, they have workers but if they cannot manufacture anything in essence the factory is already shut down but will be costing them money so a complete shut down would occur as there will be no ROI.
  • Quote seriously guys, you don't need to insult the Indian authorities like this.Corrupt or not, a country is a country, and insulting an entire country while sitting on your easy chair makes you seem like....never mind.
  • india. pfff.... -.-
  • I hope the masses don't elect another Gandhi to the office. Corruption will double. And Nokia's taxes will double. Wake up India! Stop knitting socks for the Russian army. And buying their outdated military hardware. Order the new F35s......and yea there is tax on top of $800 million price tag.
  • Whats your take on this wpcentral? We want to know ur opinion.
  • Agree, i too want to hear something from the editors. They must have seen more cases similar to these than us...
  • all i can say this, they just wanted to sit in front seat and watch the world burn. PS:they need mods to control these kinda situations
  • Wow, things escalated quickly. Too many people commented on the headline, rather than the actual merit of the taxes, causing inflammatory comments about culture and corruption. Reality of the matter is, it was an unfair taxation, compounded on top of a negotiated treaty. Basically using local tax law to supercede a mutually agreed upon tax shelter setup between Finland and India. Indian tax dept. wants taxes from sales that occurred on Indian hardware for sales of Nokia software in and out of India. To which Nokia already pays taxes to Finland for those sales on it's hardware/software. Nokia is willing to pay taxes, but not on the grounds set forth by the Indian taxation department. They instead are abiding by the treaty. So the Indian tax dept. froze Nokias Indian assets and asked for an assessed tax holding to be placed in escrow in waiting of a judicial decision. Later a raid of the Nokia offices in India was conducted in order to assess Nokias reported versus actual sales, which then produced the $500+ mill figure. Again, this is also a good lesson on crappy tax law, and overreaching. This is very similar to how many states in the US are taxing out of state companies taxes on sales to residents of their states. The real loser is the residents, as companies end up not doing business there. I would say the Indian government should step in and oversee things, but appears they've taken the side of the tax dept. Hopefully MS just discounts the factory from the sale.
  • What does this plant do exactly? Assembly?, parts??? Can they out sources it?....8,000 employees that's alot.....does apple own any plants
  • I see Indian tax hounds are just as bad as their American counterparts. The tax man will scorch the entire world to get their money
  • Wow for a sec I thought I was on appleinsider by mistake....
  • much hate and fanboyism to this news. The point for taxation is the royalties earned from software downloads in India. If the software was developeed in India and used in Indian handsets or outsourced to other makers, then its liable for taxation under Indian tax laws. Whether this software or other related technologies were from Nokia Finland is a different issue and to a great extent is immaterial. The Indo-Finnish double taxation avoidance agreement actually agrees that a 10 percent tax on such royalties can be levied. I actually have a feeling this would drag on till the elections are done and it would be on the new government to intervene and pacify both the parties involved in this case. Its better people atleast try to educate themselves before passing on lewd statements against an entire country. And to all my supposedly educated Western friends here passing on discriminatory comments...I am sure things aren't that transparent in the West either. Remember that the Indian economy stood strong even though markets around the world were suffering from recession and loss of pay and jobs. And for people who call India a shithole etc listen up. A lot of the so called Western innovations that you guys brag about were stolen from Indian manuscripts simply because our ancestors didn't have a lousy system of patenting things that were in humanity's larger interest. They have visualized the origins of the Universe and Time when most the West were rubbing stones to generate fire. Has India lost much of its ancient vibrancy? Yes. Is the current government corrupt? Definitely. But that doesn't mean you can call my country indecently. I invite you guys to come and experience India for yourself. If you cannot, then please shut up.
  • +520 +720
    finally a sensible comment...
  • much hate and fanboyism to this news. The point for taxation is the royalties earned from software downloads in India. If the software was developeed in India and used in Indian handsets or outsourced to other makers, then its liable for taxation under Indian tax laws. Whether this software or other related technologies were from Nokia Finland is a different issue and to a great extent is immaterial. The Indo-Finnish double taxation avoidance agreement actually agrees that a 10 percent tax on such royalties can be levied. I actually have a feeling this would drag on till the elections are done and it would be on the new government to intervene and pacify both the parties involved in this case. Its better people atleast try to educate themselves before passing on lewd statements against an entire country. And to all my supposedly educated Western friends here passing on discriminatory comments...I am sure things aren't that transparent in the West either. Remember that the Indian economy stood strong even though markets around the world were suffering from recession and loss of pay and jobs. And for people who call India a shithole etc listen up. A lot of the so called Western innovations that you guys brag about were stolen from Indian manuscripts simply because our ancestors didn't have a lousy system of patenting things that were in humanity's larger interest. They have visualized the origins of the Universe and Time when most the West were rubbing stones to generate fire. Has India lost much of its ancient vibrancy? Yes. Is the current government corrupt? Definitely. But that doesn't mean you can call my country indecently. I invite you guys to come and experience India for yourself. If you cannot, then please shut up.
  • Wow! This sounds totally F'ed up. I'll make the assumption corporations aren't going to want to do business in India for much longer. They have so many cases against giant companies. Again, wow.
  • Wow! For a second I thought I was on Appleinsider by mistake......
  • Figures...typical of indian govt to go back on agreements.  Corruption knows no limits and anything to make a buck and rip others off.
  • I simply applaud the kind of comments given by my friends in this article. This website is supposed to be a place for windows phone lovers disregarding the fact where they are from. But seeing this kind of hate comments from a lot of users only made me realize that when it comes to a particular country, people show their true nature and they forget that we come here for one purpose only: windows phone. And WPCentral has tolerated this drama to a huge extent. Kudos to WPCentral and to all the users for their derogatory comments.
  • Its seems like corruption to me since many top reputable companies seem to be caught in the crosshairs. In a place where a woman can be raped by nine men only to be placed in hands of law enforcement and be raped again and left unconscious to die that says a lot. In the long run the Indian people will suffer because these big corporations will be adamant about conducting business in India that has a population of over 1 billion people.
  • How about a harsher truth? An European started the plant there so that he/she can make more money. Not an Indian. Those 8000 jobs were created not just because of cheap labor but also that geographically that area is ideal for connecting to other Asian countries as well. I could give 10 different reasons other than cheap labor. But what's the point? No use in explaining a painting to blind. I really pity you for not understanding what is an MNC, reducing operating costs besides a cheap labor, etc. Nokia is a company that do business and not to promote European civilization.