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Microsoft reveals 'Always Connected PCs' from HP and ASUS with Windows 10 on ARM

Terry Myerson on stage at Build 2017
Terry Myerson on stage at Build 2017 (Image credit: Windows Central)

It was nearly one year ago at WinHEC in China that Microsoft dropped a doozy on the tech world. The company announced a new partnership with mobile chip maker Qualcomm to bring the full Windows 10 OS to Snapdragon ARM processors – the very same silicon used in today's smartphones.

Fast forward to today at the Qualcomm Snapdragon Tech Summit in Hawaii, and Microsoft is ready to reveal the first consumer products featuring an "Always Connected" experience.

Two of these new devices from HP and ASUS will go on sale in early 2018 and will be sold through traditional retailers and Microsoft. Lenovo will also have a product in early 2018.

HP Envy x2 and Asus NovaGo

The HP Envy x2 is an ultra-thin Surface-like PC running the Snapdragon 835, with 4G LTE2, Wi-Fi and up to 20 hours of active battery use. The Envy x2 also reportedly supports Windows Hello facial recognition and an active pen for inking. That tablet, with dual front-facing speakers, is removable from the keyboard. No pricing details were as yet available. It is just 6.9mm thin and weighs 1.5lbs (680g).

The forthcoming HP Envy x2 with a Snapdragon processor.

The forthcoming HP Envy x2 with a Snapdragon processor.

The ASUS NovaGo is "the world's first Gigabit LTE laptop" and can reportedly download a two-hour movie in just 10 seconds (under ideal conditions, which rarely exist). The NovaGo is more of a traditional laptop with a hinge to flip the display into tablet, presentation, or tent modes. Battery life is pegged at 22 hours of active use and 30 days standby. It will cost $599 for a 4GB NovaGo with 64GB of storage, and $799 for 8GB and 256GB.

Related: ASUS NovaGo hands-on

The new ASUS NovaGo Gigabit laptop with Windows 10 on ARM.

The new ASUS NovaGo Gigabit laptop with Windows 10 on ARM.

Both the HP Envy x2 and ASUS NovaGo ship with Windows 10 S on board, but like the Surface Laptop, owners can "unlock" that OS for a free Windows 10 Pro upgrade at any time.

Always Connected as a category

In a significant shift in how Microsoft and partners will be positioning these new devices, the branding "Always Connected" will be used to refer to devices running Windows 10 on ARM. That means in retail stores when a customer walks in there will be desktops, gaming laptops, business laptops, Ultrabooks, and now a new option: Always Connected.

The distinction between Always Connected PCs and standard laptops is significant, yet there is a lot of overlap, too.

Always Connected PCs run full Windows 10 – whether it is Windows 10 S, Windows 10 Home, or Windows 10 Pro – and can run all Win32 applications, whether from the Windows Store (bridged Centennial apps) or installed through traditional means.

Of course, devices with Windows 10 S will be limited to just Windows Store apps, but like the Surface Laptop those devices can unlock Windows 10 Pro in less than two-minutes at any time.

The main benefits of Windows 10 on ARM and Always Connected PCs comes down to three main features:

  • Instant on — Like your smartphone, Always Connected PCs don't hibernate; instead, they just turn on instantly even after hours of being on standby.
  • Always connected — Again, like a smartphone, there is no need for either the Wi-Fi or LTE network to disconnect with Windows 10 on ARM; these PCs will get notifications, alerts, and pull data without ever disconnecting.
  • Battery life — Smartphones already get all-day battery life, but an Always Connected PC is at least four times the size, meaning larger batteries to match the same hardware. so pushing a whole week of usage without recharging is likely not out of the question.

The big concern relates to performance. Matt Barlow, Microsoft Corporate Vice President of Windows and Devices told me, however, that Windows 10 on ARM is completely recompiled for Qualcomm's hardware, and many of the apps – including an optimized version of Office 365 – are very responsive and quick. We'll have to put these new devices through rigorous testing to see how good they are for running everyday applications, but so far things sound promising.

At first, Always Connected PCs will be aimed primarily at the mass consumer market, but Microsoft sees a lot of potential for enterprise as well. With lower costs, better security (especially through Windows 10 S), and ultra-thin portability and very long battery life, Microsoft thinks the Always Connected PC "enables a new culture of work."

Always Connected looks promising

Until we get our hands-on these new HP and ASUS devices, it is difficult to call any of this a success. Nonetheless, the idea that I can carry a PC and tablet that is as thin as a magazine around with me while on 4G LTE and getting a week's worth of active battery life is intriguing.

Toss in Windows Hello, instant on, and inking abilities, and a device like the HP Envy x2 looks like the ideal everyday computer that you take everywhere.

What I find more interesting is that with the new smaller logic boards for ARM processors (compared to traditional x86) and long battery life manufacturers are free to create all sorts of new PC experiences and designs. Seeing as these devices run full Windows 10 – instead of a permanently hobbled Windows RT from years ago – there are no compromises for consumers and no confusion.

Always Connected PCs look like the answer to the ongoing challenge posed by Apple and its iPad line, which while dwindling, is still an essential part of the consumer and even business culture. At least for 2018, consumers will undoubtedly have even more choices, and that's always a good thing.

Further reading

Daniel Rubino
Daniel Rubino

Daniel Rubino is the Executive Editor of Windows Central, head reviewer, podcast co-host, and analyst. He has been covering Microsoft here since 2007, back when this site was called WMExperts (and later Windows Phone Central). His interests include Windows, Microsoft Surface, laptops, next-gen computing, and arguing with people on the internet.

231 Comments
  • We are very close to the new category...hint hint Surface Mobile!!! Jason Ward....time for you to say I told you so! :)
  • Exactly, these units are basically large mobile phones with a full blown Windows 10 on ARM. All we need now is a phone sized unit with an adaptive UI...  oh wait, we have already seen CShell.... ;) All pieces in the jigsaw puzzle are already here, now MS need to put them all together and sell them to us!
  • I still have an old Surface with ARM sitting here in my shelf gathering dust. It never has been of much use for me. Now Microsoft offers a similar product, still lacking apps. Please go ahead and buy one of those, I won't. Definitely.
  • "Now Microsoft offers a similar product, still lacking apps."
    This is full Windows and runs full Win32 apps whether from the Store or installed via .exe. These devices can run Windows 10 Pro, not your hobbled Windows RT. So either you failed to read the article where I highlight this, or you missed the "why this isn't Windows RT all over again" article link at the end, or you're being obstinate. Whichever it is, you're just wrong.
  • In this day and age 32 bit program support does not eclipse the useage and utility of a fleshed out real app store like Google play or itunes. 4 years ago? yea sure but today 32 but pgorams are often legacy based and what devs are focusing on is IOS and google play apps.
  • You really don't do anything productive on a computer do you? Apps are all nice to toy around with this and that but most of the real work still happens on win32 stuff...
  • We already have plenty of choices for a Windows PC that gets great battery life and has great performance. Is 20 hours of battery life instead of 10 really going to make a difference when it comes to PCs? How often is 10 hours of battery not enough for your laptop? I really don't think battery life is the weak link. Performance is much more important when it comes down to being productive with Windows.
  • From Anandtech's live blog of the event: 
    In the two largest economies, China and US, what features would you like if you could build your own PC? : In the US, 65% want faster connectivity anywhere anytime, 51% wanted battery life In China, 50% want faster connectivity, 61% wanted battery life
    So yeah, I think a lot of people do want more battery life. 
  • Are they willing to sacrifice performance on a device that already gets 10 hours? Do you have link to the study they did? What was the question they used?
  • I copy and pasted from the live blog, so no I do not have that information. However, for the layman I don't even think performance will be sacrificed much, or even noticed. Obviously this will be subject to actual reviews and benchmarks, my personal opinion is the 835 will provide perfectly adequate performance especially in native apps for the majority of customers. Desktop CPU performance has long been enough for most people, several years at least, the biggest PC speed improvement people receive is finally getting a SSD, and mobile SoC performance are reaching that point of 'good-enough'. As long as these SD 835 devices use UFS 2.0+ for storage (the Asus one definitely is) they won't feel dog slow like eMMC used in Atom devices or 2.5" HDDs in budget and lower-midrange devices.
  • What kind of productivity? There are many jobs who rely on win32 apps which doesn't require high performance devices. Apps like accounting, office suites, etc are some of them. So twice longer battery live by sacrificing a little bit of performance are acceptable. If your job are graphic designer, movie editor, app developer, etc which require powerful machine, then this kind of devices is not for you. As simple as that.
  • So, I think you may be operating from a false totality, "bleached". Are performance hits worth battery and connectivity gains and on really slim, light devices? For some people? Absolutely not. For others, depending on how much of a hit we're talking (which is all still TBD at this point), sure it is. You're acting like these Always Connected devices are bad, so that implies you're in the former group. That's fine. But you're also acting like everybody else is in your camp as well, when it seems that based on the polls and anecdote that the latter group is actually the bigger group than the group you find yourself in. Now, how much of that group gets sucked away into iPad or Chromebook (and how many would still be left behind that'd be interested in Windows on ARM) is an interesting and worthwhile question, but beyond the immediate scope of the point I'm trying to make. That point is that these devices will be great for a portion of the market, and not great for another portion of the market. My tongue-in-cheek immediate reaction to these was "Will it play Crysis?" Of course we know it won't. But that's okay! It brings the benefits of a tablet (or maybe someday even phone) to a device that also brings the benefits of a Windows laptop to the party, and presuming that performance is adequately solid could make these things an absolute game changer in the right corners of the market. If you aren't a part of that corner of the market, then don't get one. But maybe quit your [ahem] "beaching" about one of the most potentially exciting developments in Windows computing in quite some time. Something that has the potential to shape the future and possibly even eventually lead us to that coveted long-lost mobile space. You're also kinda acting like this ARM thing is gonna take over everything - so more false totality. If all X86 / X64 were going away because of this, then yes, ---THEN--- you'd have room to complain. But it's not. There will always be higher performance devices (if more old-fashioned in their feature sets and use-cases) that will cater to the crowds who need, or really want it - like you. So I say that until such a day comes where ARM just sorta consumes everything, maybe you just quit dumping on something that wasn't even made for you in the first place, and perhaps even join in in the celebration of a splash of real excitement and optimism and hope in a Windows space that's been kinda dominated by sad news and long-term worry lately. As for me, I have a gaming PC that is a little bit more powerful than XB1X, and I game on it. So on that machine, I need power, I need performance, I need X86/X64. And conversely, I don't need the benefits of always on. BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, I've never been a fan of gaming laptops, and have little to no need for high performance productivity out of a laptop. Instead, LTE, endless battery, never-mitigated connections and slim, sexy form-factors are just what the doctor ordered - and yet, I still want full Windows and access to Win32 when I need it, as well as things like the Jackbox games or other lower-end Steam games or PC-caliber quality in old-school console gaming emulation. These devices are the first thing in the world to offer both. That's HUGE! So I have a foot in both worlds. But unlike what appears to be the case with you, I'm not blinded by totality, by 1-dimensional thinking. Yes, I need big power....but I've got a desktop for that. And yet, I don't want the expense and heft and impracticality of carrying that around with me, and I also prize the idea of how this thing meets my laptop and phone in the middle without making the kinds of sacrifices that iOS or Chrome do to get there. So, as soon as I find one that strikes the right balance of price to performance / quality, and am afforded the opportunity to do so, I'm getting on board....with The Future! :-D Cheers!
  • I still think they don´t. Probably those people want more battery life on their core i7 laptop.  Ask them again if they would trade their i7 for a Cherry Trail PC with lots of battery and they will not.
  • Always On.
    Instant On. And if it can play the games I get on a phone using the same processor, I dont see the issue.
    How many people use photoshop to its limits or do high end audio design? Barely any. For the rest of the world, being able to use their computers in an airport without connecting to horribly slow airport WIFI, is an amazing proposition.
    Or in an UBER/taxi. Or on a family car trip. Or.. or.. Or... This is a new category, not another gaming or art-creation laptop. Think Differently.
  • Open your pocket, grab 50 bucks and buy an external battery.  Now you can use your phone connection, 1 less chip to pay, a lot more processing power and you can run 64 bit programs. Done
  • When a always connected 7.9" tablet device arrives and that 20 hours of battery life shifts to 30 hrs.. then yes battery life makes a difference.  When SD 845 Always Connected Devices arrive, and the battery life keeps improving and gets even better, yes it matters.
  • So you want next smartwatch to run Visual Studio better even if it has a bad battery life? You're looking at it with a wrong perspective. The big achievement with these products is the possibility of running Windows 10 on ARM.
    These are the first set of products. With time ARM chips will improve, and alongside, MS will decouple Windows functionalities to make it modular. All of which can further lead to lighter devices and creative form factors.
    Instant on and better battery life is part of the 'Mobility' we expect from all devices now-a-days.
    And about the performance? The more mobile a device is, the less is expected from it. And keep in mind that even now these devices can run UWP apps smoothly. So for a device which is to run only UWP, it's already acheived quiet a lot.
  • Troll Logic:
    Windows 10 on desktop - why would people want an App Store when they can run full 32 bit programs?
    Windows 10 on ARM - why would people want to run full 32 bit programs and not Apps?
  • PWAs will go a long way towards bridging the app gap. And the timing of this new category of devices is dovetailing perfectly with the momentum towards PWAs.
  • Soo wrong.
  • I think the better question is really can you compile native Arm Win32 software, if no then we will never be able to extract the full performance from the hardware unless you go with UWP and UWP is barely used any anyone these days. With emulation only Arm PC's will be useful but only for light duties and certain scenarios.
  • You can compile for both UWP and Win32 apps with ARM64 as target with Visual Studio 2017. Here is hope that we are seeing quite a few Win32 apps being recompiled soon - for most open source programs this should not be a big challenge. 
  • And that's what 90% of consumers do... light duty.   Very light duty.   Professionals and gamers are the ones who need power.  And they wouldn't buy this in the first place.  
  • @AccentAE86 yes, those 90% of users need APPS! You know, they have that folder on another partition called Kits where they have their favourite apps like CHROME, Firefox, VLC (spare me with the store version which is a total junk) and many others ready to install. Nice try, but this is going to fail like many other MS's projects.
  • But Windows is lacking apps. "Full blown" windows less so than UWP store only Windows, but the gap is still there and growing every day. Just looking at my phone, I have a popular fitness app, a popular grocery shopping app, a popular game or two, none of which are available on Windows (32 or UWP). Then there is local parking app, local pay for your coffee app, local transport app, which are very important for my day to day existence. Again, not there. On top of that, my employer has used a popular enterprise remote access solution by old MS partners and market leadrs in the field, and this is incredibly also not available on Windows. So, even in enterpise space windows is lacking. So much for "always connected". The second issue is that these devices are not phones. They are just laptops with better battery life. Which is great, but hardly a game changer. This is an attempt to fight against chromebooks which are becoming a serious challenge to Microsoft's "keyboard device" dominance. This is obviously going to do nothing for their pocket touch screen device problems. If this came out a few years ago, this could have been an incentive for developers to develop for Windows phone, but is way too late now.
  • If you're talking about how you have those apps on your phone,,, why are you worried about NOT having them on your PC, where you're least likely to use them anyways???
    ............
    Wait a minute... Please don't admit that you perceived you're expected to replace your smartphone with one of these PC's... That would be sad.
  • No matter how many times people are told these devices or the rumoured Pocket Surface/foldable device are going to have telephony but are not phones, they will still bury their heads in the sand and look forward to buying one to use as their sole mobile device and think they'll be Galaxy Note etc beaters in that regard.
  • Web apps are the future, apps are dead
  • Thier is no hail mary that negates all the APPS and development resources being poored into goolge play and Itunes.
  • Actually apps are alive and well.  Future web apps are not even born yet, maybe our kids will play with them.
  • Installing an app for every store and service you use is just redic. PWA's are the future we will see them flooding the MS store in the spring update.
  • "So either you failed to read the article where I highlight this, or you missed the "why this isn't Windows RT all over again" article link at the end, or you're being obstinate." It is because your site has been overtaken by the trolls. These people go into articles and write the same type of thing over and over and over again in an attempt to prop up their favorite product (which is not a Microsoft product), and then move onto the next article and do it all over again. And when people complain about it, the "we have been getting more hits than ever!" or "those Razer articles were a hit!" claims are trotted out. Congrats, you sold out your site and proud that the hits are at an all time high because of the trolls. Meanwhile, us, the fans, are being squeezed out. This same pattern has repeated on countless web sites, and this one is the latest victim. Dan fiddled while WC burned.
  • I know exactly who you're talking about.....
  • Does this potentially mean Windows for ARM can be installed on RT devices?
  • Daniel any info on minimum requirements for the ACPC? Wondering it the HP x3 could potentially upgrade to it.
  • You must be a professional Snapchater for your after school tree house club, because my Surface 3 with an LTE chip gets at least 40 hours of use a week.
    ........
    That's more use than your Power Rangers app gets on your $30 Android tablet that the back probably just fell off on.
  • I totally agree with you. This will go nowhere.  All of the pluses, like "20-hour battery life", are only if you stick with Windows 10 S and Windows Store apps... but who is going to do that?  Nearly no one.  Once you do what most people will do--upgrade to real Windows 10 Pro--you have an underpowered laptop.  What's the point? Sorry, I'll pass.
  • I totally agree. This is useless and pointless.  As Satya Nadella already said... we've already got two mobile OSes... there's no need for more.  This will fail the same way that RT, Windows Phone, and Windows 10 S have failed--no apps.  Once you install Windows 10 Pro on it to run real programs, all of the other value propositions for this thing go out the window (no pun intended). Sorry, I'll pass.
  • (facepalm)
  • i think these devices should get phone capability, so you can answer phone calls using a Bluetooth microphone speakers, I know Skype is there, but many of us don't have Skype and still use the phone to make voice calls over the cellular grid
  • They definitely will.
  • Agree 1000%. Include telephony options in these devices like they do for Apple Watch and Samsung Gear 3. Use Skype as the contacts/dialer. This wouldn't require the PC to be your only phone, but give you an option to answer/make phone calls from the PC anywhere. And why isn't Skype capable of being the default phone/SMS on Android?
  • I know the telephony portion within windows 10 was removed some time ago, but i would imagine that it will get added back in at some point.
  • That still doesn't help the horrible Windows store and Apps gap, running 32 bit programs doesn't make that up.
  • Sorry for being rude. But you really are a moron!
  • 😂😂😂😂😂😂
    Yeah, I'm sure GM finance is looking at this event thinking "our entire IT department can run server side executions on these devices, but WHERE IS PINTEREST!!!!"" 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭...
    .......
    And, I'm sure every consumer with a iPhone X is so turned off by the fact they won't be able to unlock their Cadillac using the OnStar app, and their shiny new 10" WOA machine they bought to do business on.🤓🤓🤓🤓
    What the hell are you talking about?
  • Sorry, you mean the program gap that Chromebooks have?
  • Lol. Right. That's exactly what he means.
  • Web apps are the future, forget an app. Windows is trying to prepare for the future
  • LOL swanlee, delusional fanboys downvoted you for telling the truth :)))
  • Yea pretty riridculous. MS hardware was always really good but the reason none of their mobile efforts caught on was their inability to get dev resources behind them. These devices don;t fix that issue.
  • +1 To further this experience: Have a Display Dock for this device in 13 or 14" device looking like Dell XPS or so. This is what i imagined when i started with Win8 + WInPhone8. Even when back then it was total SiFi, today it's technically possible, just need someone to do it.
  • The biggest piece of the puzzle and what killed mobile is still not fixed, App gap is real and Win32 support isn't going to fix that for this class of device. A Surface Phone isn't going to be any better than a dead Windows Mobile Phone at this point
  • > adaptive UI
    I tried resizing FB Messenger, Windows Central win10 app to a small window the other day. They seem to scale / work fine (2 pages mode into 1 page mode). Then you prob can use Start Screen to launch apps... (the very same Start Screen is on the legacy WinPhone I think). Besides, you can tune a lotta UI elements in the Setting since win95.
  • I am not Jason, but if it's ok for me to temporarily be his assistant, YES, He told us so... Let's wait ans see. The $799 for 8GB and 256GB will be interesting (When we have QSD 845) because it MUST be compared to SP4 M3 or i3 performance wise considering both will be jokeying at around same price point. (I know the SP4 in question has no LTE and not Always on, not light etc etc... I KNOW!). I see QComm investing in GPU and more performance SD845 on forward, that might be bad for intel when it comes to their i5 downward.
  • I highly doubt Microsoft will bring Surface Phone to market soon. They will bring a successor to the Surface 3 first.
  • I really hope 845 is comparable to an m3 or even i5.
  • Saying "Jason told us so" is admitting to being an idiot... Jason didn't have to tell us anything.. Any fool could see what was about to happen... Same as MS working on a Ultramoble Surface device. Pretty ****** obvious.
    .......
    What's even more sad is the fact that a bunch of even more idiotic trolls disagreed with Jason when MS told us what the hell they were doing the whole dam time.... How stupid can these trolls be❓❓❓❓
    Answer that? How stupid?
  • Extremely, very, totally, [insert additional descriptors here] stupid.
  • Surface Scribe 📖
  • WoA + SD845 + Foldable Screen + Phone Dialer + 5G = Surface Mobile
  • It will certainly be an interesting product, but its not getting MS back into the mobile/consumer game. This still wont have snapchat, my local city parking meter app, wont connect to your new smart thing, watch, etc, and wont get whatever new apps come along. Sure, docked like a desktop or running as a laptop with desktop software, it will be nice. As a touch mobile device this category brings nothing to the table without software written for use as a touch mobile device. This is a modernized legacy device. Its not the future of anything. 
  • Pallentx - "Sure, docked like a desktop or running as a laptop with desktop software, it will be nice. As a touch mobile device this category brings nothing to the table without software written for use as a touch mobile device. This is a modernized legacy device. Its not the future of anything. " You should go back and re-read the article.  It clearly states the benefits. (always connected, battery life, portability..)
  • Don't we have smartphones for that?... What's the worry?
  • Wow. Barring evidence of significantly reduced performance this feels like a major breakthrough for Microsoft and PC makers.
  • Yeah the performance is what I'm curious about. They seem like pretty cool devices and I work with a lot of people that could use something like this (especially with the all day battery life)
  • Benchmarks already exist showing them to perform significantly slower. Probably due to lack optimization or overhead added by x86 emulation. But for the average Joe concerned about an average performing windows device with great battery life this is probably a non issue. https://liliputing.com/2017/11/arm-powered-windows-laptops-show-benchmark-results.html
  • The Benchmarks are for emulated apps since there is not native benchmark existing yet. Besides only degrading by 50% due to emulation is a big achievement of the emulation technology. This essentially means, that even emulated apps will be as fast as on the Cherrytrail Atom (e.g. Surface 3) and in many cases much faster.
  • As long as it performs at least to the level of my m3 powered Surface Pro 4, I'll be more than happy.
  • This seems awesome. Really need to see the performance for this, but this kind of device seems very tempting.
  • Sweet!
    A major step in the right direction and now we need Microsoft to throw their weight behind UWP now.
    Otherwise... we're not going to see much UWP app development momentum... PWA needs a transitional phase and UWP will give Microsoft so many more pathways and one of them will be PWA.
    Now I'm going to go watch the Qualcomm Keynote from the beginning whilst I relax :).
  • Loved the music in the video!
    I hope they make budget versions as well. Because as compared to ipads in the article, these are still very expansive and right in line with M3 processors price range. and I was hoping for even more battery life;")
  • True, any OEMs that can fill the $250 - $350 price bracket will surely do well. From what I read a while back, QSD 835 LTE package is less that $80, maybe licence QComm's circuitboard and fill in the rest with desent plastic ans it can be built for less $200, create margin with bigger storage and RAM, no PEN and should cost less than $270 to build and sell for $350. But, at $599, competes well with top iPad. Just look at the spec. Comes with keyboard, LTE, PEN, 4GB RAM.
  • I totally want the Asus one.  But I thought they'd be like uh... cheaper.
  • I mean, it's not like smartphones are cheap either. Though no reason why a lower cost device can't be made. There are still limits, but in a world where $1k smartphones are now here, $599 is not crazy expensive.
  • The Asus one looks like a rebrand of the C302CA Chromebook.  Which has a much more powerful and expensive mCore CPU.  I expect savings from that standpoint.
  • I amm assuming the C302CA Chromebook does not have an LTE package or quickcharge 3 or USB-C rev1 or inking capability. But, I still believe a $300 - $400 price windows can be built.
  • It's better not to start with cheap low-end laptops especially with this new set of devices running Windows 10 on ARM otherwise we'll see the same fate as those ill-conceived WinXP Netbooks.
  • Dismissing the digitizer for inking, pen, and what I assume is Windows Hello is not really making a fair comparison.
  • Tbh they showed lower prices as one of the arguments for Win10ARM today.
  • I think it's time to cut the "in a world where $1k smartphones" crap. The market has already shown that it will NOT tolerate 1000€ smartphones. Proof of that is that it has immediately lowered their retail prices shortly after launch. So yeah, 600€ is still expensive for many people. Sure, for a laptop it's the price of an upper mid-ranger. And we still don't know if these ARM devices perform better than low end Intel devices. But let's stop trying to excuse price hickes with the fact that Apple and Apple alone is selling an overpriced piece of garbage to their iSheep. ;)
  • Anyone think these are similar to netbooks? I hope these always connected PCs are better than they were in terms of performance
  • No
  • Well, both have keyboards and screens, yeah.
  • Very close to the tiny PC with telephony...
  • i really hope these lightweight laptops van substitute a smartphone, otherwise you would end up having 2 data plans one for your phone and another for the laptop
  • Yepers.
  • Just a little of market.
  • What I woud like to see is MS having their own wireless service.  They then can allow sims to be copied and shared bewteen the phone and PC. Offer an unlimited plan for $50-60 a month. The next step would be to have an unlimted anything MS plan (Gold, Skype, (Grove extinct --> Spotify, Movie (compete with Netflix), Office 365, etc) along with the unlimted data plan for $75/month. Have an unlimted everything plan for a family of 4 for $250/month. Eventually with the next generation of wireless speeds and bandwidth, it may be possible to get rid of home internet all together.  
  • Xerostomia, you are a trouble maker... You laid out so juicy and I almost believe it is real, that will be a dream package. So, please stop making me drool that it can happen.
  • That's US problem I believe. In my country, I can have unlimited LTE with multiple sims. The monthly cost is now as low as $30-40.
  • Lobbyists and corporate greed is THE problem in the US.
  • @TechFreak1, lobbyists maybe, but "corporate greed" is what drives investment in innovation. If not for attainable profit and positive ROI, companies wouldn't spend any money on R&D, and we'd still have small tube TV's, use corded phones, and computers would only be used by the government and the largest corporations. Or maybe we'd still be limited to horse and buggies and not even have phones. The quest for profit, because people want to be able to get the things they want, provide for their families, and take that vacation to wherever they want to go, is responsible for almost every (there are some exceptions) technical and standard-of-living advance in the past few hundred years.
  • and the large amount of military investment ;-)
  • @GraniteStateColin, you and I have different opinions when it comes to corporate greed.
  • Just please make a 6inch device! Maybe next year?! MAYBE?!!
  • 6.5-7... Please
  • 5-5½... Please
  • That's not gonna happen,,,, yet.
  • Microsoft has no software for devices smaller than 10" and they haven't been putting effort into attracting developers. Actually, they have been actively discouraging developers with their treatment of W10M and UWP. No way they build smaller devices for at least a few years. Their actions do not indicate a strategy for anything other than traditional PCs. Any smaller device released in this climate will undoubtedly fail.
  • S u r f a c e  P h o n e   incoming !!!
  • Well, It'll land in the Scribe category, rather Phone... Windows is more suitable for a Scribe than a Smartphone.
  • S u r f a c e S c r i b e incoming !!! FTFY
  • Scribe is the most logical name.... Even looks good paired up with Surface because the S
  • what the heck is a scribe and where did the name come from?
  • Silly name for a tablet. It won't be a smartphone at all. Just a slightly different take on a tablet. Current rumors do not point towards the revolutionary device Microsoft needs. Just another tablet with pen capabilities.
  • The only thing that can ruin this is limited data plans. If you have an Always Connected PC, but your data plan has run out, no more connectivity outside WiFi or Hotspots. Luckily, around here in the Netherlands, unlimited Data starts emerging as a downright cheap (25 euro a month) option.
  • Well here is an idea, if Microsoft can restrict OS and app updates Ober WiFi only this can work the same as your smartphone, so you just need to monitor every week how much Gigabytes you have used
  • With the availability of free wifi at alot of coffeeshops, stores and restaurants, i rarely use all of my Data.  The only time I find myself using it is streaming music in the car.
  • How is that any different than what we currently deal with with smartphones?❓❓❓ 🤔🤔🤔
  • There's no such thing as "unlimited Data" plans. Specially at 25€ a month. You might want to double check the fine print in your contract. I bet you will find tiny lettering telling you that your data usage is limited to "fair data consumption by an average person".
  • To be honest, all 'unlimited' data plans come with the caveat of a fair usage policy. After all the data packets still need to passthrough physical infrastructure :).
  • These are just netbooks with a Cellular Connection. I sure hope performance is worth it. Otherwise I'm sticking with my 2 and 1 Ultrabook and tethering on my smartphone.
  • The news about AMD/Qualcomm really sounds like win win for users powerful plus always connected.
  • What news? I never heard or read that, can you kindly share a link or something.
  • @asoyemi, AMD presented this during the event yesterday. It was a suprise, at least to me. I don't think it was as exciting as the Windows on ARM pieces, but interesting notheless.
  • Powerful? Probably not. Leaked benchmarks aren't that promising, especially for the price.
  • Daniel, just a thought, do you think MSFT could have been a true contender if this was released the year they released the first surface RT? Remeber performance then would have been comparable to any other ARM or Atom SOC then, but full Windows (in S blanket, openable to pro) would have made a difference you think?
  • I sure hope the performance isn't like Atom SoC's.
  • I hope someone will test Visual Studio on one of these to see if they are a viable companion for me when I travel. :)
  • Visual Studio itself is only available as x86 app - this means that it would need to run emulated. Another issues is, that if you chose ARM64 as compilation target there is (at least currently) no local debug option available.  In theory you could chose x86 as target and try to debug the emulated code :p
  • That sounds pasinful. Guess I'll stick with my i7 Surface Pro. :D
  • That would be make for a interestimg test case, debugging emulated code lol.
  • If only these devices made calls. If only the Phone app supported modems.
  • That would be great, I think it would also bring a boom to Carrier data plan industry which is not growing as in previous years 😁😁😁
  • Based on how well Visual Studio performs on this, I might jump on to these devices. Visual Studio might be too much to ask for at this first release, so I may have to wait for one or two iterations.
  • See Cruncher04's note above. Sounds to me like it's not worth it yet.
  • I would like to see a replacement for the Surface 3 with this kind of battery life.
  • This is fantastic news. Amazing work to get a full OS on a device running these. And that battery life. I mean Jesus. It dwarfs all other mobile devices for battery. Literally. Surely ultra mobile PCs are but a breath away. All in all, I'm glad I waited to upgrade. Will definitely get an Arm cellular PC for myself and my Wife. It's perfect for her business as she goes to clients houses and needs to access the internet everywhere. 
  • Sounds great, can't wait to see how CrystalDiskMark performance benchmark goes with these new always on devices and also want to see teardown review to see which RAM memory is used and also checking the Io ports available on a motherboard with this Qualcomm hardware. EXCITING TIMES WE LIVE IN
  • I always thought one of the reasons Intel let the Atom line lanquish was because Baytrail was too successful on the PC side in 2013/14. An Atom SOC that costs <$50 and had to be upgraded 20-30% in performance annually to keep up with the arm competition would have been A massive threat to the higher revenue pentium/celeron/core M/core i3 lines. Even if the 835 has a 50% perforance hit running win32 apps, it will still be faster than the Cherrytrail Atom and much cheaper than the $230-330 (per tray of 1000) Core M/Y, then next year the 845 will likely be 25% faster and the next year the 855 will be 25% faster again.
  • Indeed, ARM is planning with a 20-30% annual performance uplift for the next 2 generation after Cortex A75.
  •   Well: Those ARM devices all run Window 10 S. So you will depend on the Microsoft Store. Which is quite funny:
    W10M was killed citing a lack of apps. Now they start all over again, and again "with no apps". Well, that's Microsoft logic in its pure form. OK.
    Now what exactly is the difference
    between such a W10 S ARM device and a Samsung Smartphone with a huge battery and a dock? Different form factor (Microsoft: huge display, huge battery)
    and a different app universe (Android has apps, Microsoft has ... ah well ... not so many ...yet).
  • I really feel your posts here are just, weird. Yes, and Surface Laptop runs Windows 10 S. But, as mentioned, you can unlock Windows 10 Pro for free. We even have a video demoing it on the Surface Laptop. So anything that is written after the "which is quite funny" is out the door and I'll just ignore. How can you purposefully, and willingly make your argument while not even mentioning the free upgrade to Windows 10 Pro? You're being dishonest here. Also, for the record, my Surface Laptop runs Windows 10 S and I'm just fine with it, also shooting down your silly point. It's up to the customer to decide what experience they want. Imagine that.
  • You haven't figured out yet that you're wasting your time on people like this? It's hard to imagine when you have a life, job, hobbies, and actual friends, but there are actually people who run from one site to another to spread ignorance. 
  • Lol 😂
  • Dan knows his rationale is wasted on Fred. He points out the idiocy to ensure less-savvy readers understand his comments are nothing but FUD.
  • Having access to desktop software is nice, but it doesnt do anything to get MS back into the mobile/consumer game like a lot of commenters here seem to think. This is a cool laptop for running desktop software that can be always connected, which is great. Its nothing like the "Surface Phone" people here are dreaming of that will being back Windows Phone as a contender again. 
  • Why do you think this is Microsoft's attempt to get back into the mobile game?  Because someone is releasing a 2in1 and a laptop with a mobile SoC?  This is just another step in the evolution of laptops.
  • @pallentx, it's always a chicken and egg problem -- app developers don't want to create apps if no one will buy/use them. Customers don't want a device with no apps. Among many other factors, this serves, in part, as a bridge. People won't buy it for the Store apps at this point (obviously), but hopefully will for the reasons MS is touting -- the first Always Connected PC with massive battery life. But with some of those out there, and some running only 10S, that creates a greater incentive for developers, helping better populate the Store, which in turn makes it more attractive to consumers, etc. A virtuous circle, at least conceptually. Whether this succeeds or not is impossible to know for sure, but it seems like it's pretty much the best play from a strategy perspective (and because MS screwed up and alienated a lot of its users and UWP developers and fans by pushing them out of Windows Phone with no direct transition plan to this device). Keep in mind that we've not seen the reference device for this tech yet from MS. Probably something like Rodneyej's "Surface Scribe" which sounds right in line with the reports we've been reading from Daniel, Zac, and Jason Ward.
  • I thought the free upgrade of Windows 10 S to Windows 10 Pro was due to finish December 31st this year, have they extended this offer to Spring/Winter/Fall(Autumn) 2018 now?
  • Honest question. Will the performance of these always connected devices be diminished in anyway by upgrading to Windows 10 Pro? Have you guys done any internal testing with the Surface Laptop with both 10S and 10 Pro that can address this question?
  • For a start Win 32 programs will be in the MS store for w10s devices. So it will have alot of actual programs not ever available on Android ever. Because Android can't do Win32 apps. It's not the same app store found on Win mobile. You can run full Steam program for example with thousands more games than Android could dream of. You can even get an app which means to can physically download Android apps from the Play store and run the apps right there on tour Win 10s device. I have been using Android apps that I wanted on my Surface Pro for over a year now. 
  • The just said it will be upgradable to Pro from S. Also, according to the Windows Update packages found, there will be an ARM version of every existing PC Windows variant
  • I'm waiting for a special device...
  • I'm thinking there will be more than one.
  • Is this really the problem with Windows? I have never heard anyone complain they can't use a Windows device because of battery life. Performance is much more important when you can already purchase a powerful machine with 10+ hours of battery. These aren't any cheaper than a XPS13 and will certainly not be in the ballpark performance wise. Again, Microsoft is behind. Releasing SD835 devices while SD845 is available. Why bother with SD835 in spring 2018?!
  • " Again, Microsoft is behind. Releasing SD835 devices while SD845 is available. Why bother with SD835 in spring 2018?! " It is possible the work to make full windows 10 viable was done on that SoC (835) and it usually takes time, including the circuitboard etc firmware and a whole lot when SoC 845 was still in develpment and not viable yet. So, how could they have today's announcement or this Win10 On Arm with a SoC that is not on the market yet, SoC 845 is as of today, just an announcement.
  • XPS 13 starts at $799; so yes, this is cheaper. XPS 13 also doesn't have an LTE modem, is not instant on, doesn't support pen, and needs to be recharged at the end of the day. Not really seeing the similarities here.
    "Again, Microsoft is behind. Releasing SD835 devices while SD845 is available."
    False. SD845 was announced with no release date yet. Second, there will be PCs with SD845 as well- these are just the first two, and will likely be out before SD845, which is expected to have a Samsung exclusive launch with GS9 in 1Q 2018.
  • 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
    Idiot trolls always "trying".. Pathetic. As if these, and more products, won't get updated with even more powerful chips in 6 months from now. SMDH
  • You have to understand that bleached spends all of his time at lagdroid central so he comes here just to troll the Microsoft users, not sure why but my guess is lack of any other life?!
  • He is Paul Thurrott in disguise.
  • I have been listening to Thurrot for a long time. Very true.
  • What's more pathetic is you fanboys being delusional over this DOA winonarm. I can hardly expect the reviews that will probably smash down this mediocre experience on these devices.
  • That is in the price range. These need to be ~$300 or I bet the performance trade off won't be worth it. It will be interesting how these perform, especially after they are upgraded to Windows 10 Pro.
  • Because of mobility workers, not everybody works inside an office with Wi-Fi Internet, you need a cellular data connection without having to use tethering with your phone, the only thing that makes me keep a phone is Whatsapp and voice calls over cellular grid, but if Microsoft adds this capability many users might replace a smartphone with a product like this
  • Lol, what a stupid argument. There is no x86 device with remotely comparable battery life at that form factor. In addition XPS13 has no LTE, no pen support and is only usable via hibernate as standyby option - so forget about always on. On top of this we are looking at native performance levels of 2-3x of Atom....more than enough for many people and close to core M.
  • "On top of this we are looking at native performance levels of 2-3x of Atom....more than enough for many people and close to core M." I'll be first in line if this is indeed true.
  • @Bleached, it's really a fundamentally different UX. It's not just "longer battery life," but instant on and always connected like a phone. I don't think anyone can say with certainty how that will play in the market, because the use cases for phones and PC's have remained largely distinct (even when the functions being performed are the same). I suspect, if adopted at all, it will change how we think about using our computers. There have been studies I read (not sure if they're public and I apologize for not having a link) that showed dramatic gains and changes in use cases as response times decreased in certain applications from 1 minute to 10 seconds or from 10 seconds to 1 second and from 1 second to .1 second. At each change, things that were impossible or uncomfortable before, became necessities at the new speed. It's easy to see that from 1 minute to 10 seconds or even from 10s to 1s, but the last one was the surprise to the testers. It turned out that instant responsiveness made things much more usable and approachable. It's not hard to imagine that "always on" could have a similar effect on PC usage, and in ways that we can't entirely predict.
  • Waste of time, I'm SOOOOOOO Tired of 12-14 inch 2 in 1's. For the love of god can we get some different form factors and screen sizes please? Maybe a return to 7-8 inch tablets? I recently shevled my Surface 3 and got an 8 inch Galaxy Tablet cause I want a small form factor tablet and since MS and Windows OEM's weren't going to give that to me I went else where.
  • What Gabriel said!
  • Promising is when the devices are in the price range they should be and not 600$....another missed opportunity.
  • You can't even get a high end Windows Phone (of all phones) for less than $600.. You expect for a newly engineered, 10" quality device with a pen to be less?..... Huh?
  • Yeah, and people will never pay $500 for a game console either, right?
  • Eh, it's always nice to have more options for devices so I don't see this as a bad thing. However, I also don't see this as a game changer like some people here are making it out to be. Let's take a look at the advertised benefits: Instant On - This is a nice feature, but I haven't heard people complaining lately that their newer laptops take too long to resume from sleep. With an SSD and Windows 10, I almost always get to the login screen in 5 seconds or less after pressing the button. Always Connected - Again, this is nice to have, but I don't think the vast majority of the consumer market will take advantage of it. LTE data is too expensive right now for most people to want to shell out $50/month (for the unlimited plan that would be needed) to have backup internet when they don't have access to WiFi. Of course there are use cases for the self-employed types that do much of their work at various client locations who would appreciate this feature. It's not exactly a new thing since mobile hotspots have been around for years, but I am sure some will appreciate the built-in capability that this offers. Battery Life - This is definitely a good addition. Can't get enough of that battery life. All told, I think these new devices are a welcome addition, but they are not in any way revolutionary. I see these as more of a "Celeron"-level performance option that OEMs can provide for their various laptop/tablet models. As long as the ARM models are generally $100-$150 dollars lower than their m3 counterparts, I think they will have a place in the market. Note this assessment is regarding the devices that were announced today; it could change if/when new form factors are enabled by this technology.
  • @bj2386, longer battery life may be the least of these. That's the kind of incremental improvement customers can easily understand and request, but going from 10 hours to 20 hours is not total game changer. However, those other 2 could be. You can't say that because people aren't asking for those things that they are not vital to the future direction of computing. Computer users also weren't clamoring for a mouse prior to the Mac or phone users for touch screens. Innovation and technical advancement can often create new use cases and needs that didn't previously exist. On the data cost issue, just before Qualcomm introduced the ACPC (Always Connected PC), they were talking about their new 5G chips and technology with dramatically higher speeds and lower cost per bit. And according to Qualcomm, they're testing it in several countries now. The ACPC fits really nicely into that model.
  • Sounds like my Windows RT tablet, best keep using that then now its in vogue again :) 
  • Except the RT is much heavier, or at least my first gen RT is, maybe it is that coating of dust...
  • I think Microsoft has taken a bold step with windows 10 on ARM with ASUS and HP. It was my impression Nadella's pitch was a new mobility experience on new devices. But laptops are ubiquitous and decades old. I don't see it fit that pitch. I'm therefor a bit unimpressed. But maybe I'm spoiled by the Surface;) I truly worried about performance of these devices with windows 10 on ARM. I think, and hope, performance will be at least as good or better than surface pro first gen i5 performance on the 835. Telemetry might warrant office performance as the benchmark for pc performance, but with ARM I do think personal third party apps will become just as relevant as the lines between smartphone and pc blur. I think windows 10 on ARM has a lot to show for itself. It will also be an interesting exercise to question in what way windows 10 on ARM devices can be compared to smartphone hardware and software. Anything less, and windows 10 on ARM could be a disappointment from the start, whichever pitch is given for the OS. Interesting times!
  • Exciting, but as reported by The Verge (https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/5/16737288/microsoft-windows-10-qualcom...), "64-bit Windows apps aren’t supported yet (developers will be able to recompile them in the future), and Microsoft isn’t supporting apps that use kernel mode drivers. That means most third-party antivirus software won’t be compatible, and the vast majority of games that use anti-cheat software will also not work correctly."
  • I don't know how you can claim there are no compromises when Windows 10 S is itself a compromise. Being able to upgrade to full Windows is no excuse. In order to have absolutely no compromises these machines should always come with full Windows.
  • Well that depends on your definition. It may be a compromise for you if you need something like windows pro to run win32 programs. If someone just needs to check email and browse the internet, then what's the compromise here? It just means a particular device isn't the right fit for you. Plus you could argue the no compromise part of it is the fact you can freely upgrade it without having to buy new hardware in order to use win32 programs.
  • @wshwe, I'm glad they come with Windows 10 S. Some users won't ever bother to upgrade to Pro. That's the single best incentive for developers to create UWP or other Store apps, and more apps makes the Store more attractive to users, which makes it more attractive to developers, etc. That's a benefit to all of us.
  • I'm interested to know whether any of these "Always Connected" PCs would support Windows Mixed Reality, either as Windows Mixed Reality PCs, or even better, as Windows Mixed Reality Ultra PCs.
  • The form factor (in terms of specs) seem counter what *I* would consider "ultra," but I suppose it depends on one's standards.  But, if we look at what Mixed Reality looks like now - I don't see why not.
  • We need a Msft organized competition for the best user experience and use case for Always Connected
  • :)  We are now in the two-steps forward phase.  Anxiously awaiting more news on partnerships, products, positioning, and reception.
  • Awesome! Will be looking out for more choices. I would love to see ARM versions of XPS 13, Surface Laptop, and LG Gram 13.
  • Cool idea, but I can't see them being as useful in the major cities here in Oz where wifi is literally everywhere. Still, I guess it's useful for some people who want a barebones machine for general office work or facebooking.
  • I hadn't even thought of that aspect.  The benefit of significantly better battery life coupled with virtually ubiquitous wifi in big cities kind of makes the LTE aspect even less useful.  Out here on the TX/MX border, it would be more useful but, as I posted earlier, our phones both have mobile hotspots, so we don't have to purchase a third or fourth cell line to get our Surface Pro devices online.  So, again, LTE built-in is non-value-added.
  • If windows 10S and Pro on ARM can only work on win32, does it also mean there is a limit on RAM use? I still have a quad 2 core device that is win32 and win64 compatible. Win32 was always limited to 4 Gb RAM use max. Is this still a thing on 2017 hardware and ARM? Or can current pcs run win32 apps/programs and use more than 4 Gb of RAM? Curious because of the ASUS 8Gb offer.
  • In this case win32 isn't referring to hardware, it's kinda programmer slag for a set of apis. ,
  • This is an interesting question, you're right, it's a point that needs to be clarified.
  • It's a 64 bit architecture...so yes it can use more than 4 GB ram if present in the device.
  • Win32 is the term for the classic style libraries for writing applications, and is analagous to other terms like .NET, WPF, or UWP. It does not mean that it is limited to 32 bit memory addressing. There are many "Win32" apps that are compiled for 64 bit architectures and use more than 4 GB of RAM.
  • @Wevenhuis, the devices can have more than 4GB RAM (and in the case of the Asus device announced yesterday already do). Individual Win32 programs, however, are limited to only using 4GB of RAM. But that's not really a problem. With the exception of some massive database applications and newer graphicly intense applications (even there, swapping wouldn't be too bad), individual apps rarely need that much RAM. It's the multitasking that creates the need for more RAM, because even if every app only needs .5GB, if you have a few dozen running, you need more than 4GB total. Indivdiual 32bit apps runninng in a 64bit OS is fine. The default version of full MS Office on Windows remains a set of 32 bit applications, for example, even when running on 64 bit Windows 10.
  • I am expecting the Microsoft marketing campaign to start any time now... 
  • This is gonna be big.
  • Finally after all these years, Pentium is dead. 
  • Looks good. Need a hero device. Panos get it done!
  • Panos Panay...take it AWAY !
  • So, someone explain to me why I should get excited over this?  My SP is already instant-on.  The one thing that IS attractive is the possibility of dramatically better battery life on one of these devices.  But how is the "always connected" aspect attractive to most people?  Let's be honest, businesses are probably the biggest market potential for this.  Them, and those individual consumers with a lot more disposable cash to afford ANOTHER cell line on their plan.  I certainly can't afford that.  With both my wife and I having a shared plan, it's still RIDICULOUSLY expensive in order to have the number of GBs we need.  And we use a LOT.  Our phones have mobile hotspots, which are as easy to activate as saying "Hey, Cortana".  Of the two of us, I'm the only one who drags his SP almost everywhere, and even I don't see the benefit of spending a LOT more money for virtually no added convenience.   So, ASSUMING these devices could perform at least as well as my SP at all the functions I use mine for, what's the real value-added for me aside from potentially much better battery life (which is a good plus, I'll admit)?
  • You don't have to get excited over this. Your needs vary to others. Certainly, for me it is an exciting tech, taking into account all the things Dan has mentioned. I am thinking it is a fanless architecture, which if it is true, is beneficial. And it isn't that expensive. Definitely cheaper than most high end smartphones. Oh, and it is light weight.
  • The battery life will not be long if you ever been able to run win32 apps on these devices.
  • The real value is having windows 10S with NO APPS...you are getting the honour of being a guinea pig for MS.
  • @ScubaDog, I don't think we know yet the impact of "always on" and "always connected" for a PC. We are all so set in our minds of thinking when you close a laptop it goes to sleep, then when you re-open it, it has to catch the WiFi, download or sync, and then after several seconds, it's ready to go. That's not a big hurdle, but it's still a hurdle. If everything is really always on, like on a phone, then as fast as you can pull out your computer you have everything there at your fingertips, that changes how you can use it. It also means it's easier and safer to close it without needing to stop to think if you are done, because there's no risk of delay in re-opening. None of these sound important, and individually they're not, but taken together, they all subtly affect the user experience and may change how we use computers over time. Also keep in mind that these are still all traditional devices. We haven't seen the new reference design from Panay and MS yet.
  • This is a great new category...again.. Windows wins with CHOICE ! Personally getting a $1000ish gaming laptop but this is a great choice for many others.
  • This is HUGE !!!👏👍💪
  • these just seem like the next evolution of laptops to me, not revolution. my dell xps10 had 18hrs battery life with 8.1 rt, I had the keyboard with it so for me the battery life isn't that impressive but it should be lighter. can't see people rushing out to buy these, chromebooks have 12 to 15 hr battery life at less cost and now with play store a lot more apps, these may have back catalogue of win32 but people just want to go to a store and download and go
  • So has Microsoft ever said what the support cycle is going to be for these WoA devices?  I've read that Qualcomm doesn't support their SOCs very long, which is part of the reason that even Android devices from Google have relatively short periods of update support (2-3 years) compared to iOS.  ARM based Windows phones haven't really done better than 2-3 years of supported updates either.  So are these new WoA devices going to just have a 2-3 year window after which they'll stop getting updates, or will there be longer term support?
  • Companies don't want long-term support, why would you buy a new one otherwise.
  • That is a good question, one which I too would like the answer to. My BLU WIN HD LTE Windows phone stopped getting updates after the Anniversary Update, forcing me to buy a new phone to get security updates. I bought an iPhone instead of an Android phone because of Apple's track record of supporting iOS devices for a long time with software updates. Of course, Project Treble will help Android devices, but that wasn't out yet when I needed a new phone.
  • I imagine this whole Windows on ARM experiment will be cancelled and not supported after a year or two. I like the idea of the HP Envy x2, but I won't touch it, Microsoft has a terrible track record with supporting their own products. After having owned the Surface 1 & 2, I have lost all trust.
  • Can we know the detail of "Optimized version of Office365"? Does it mean the recompiled one for the ARM?
  • Fun thing, this looks very much like the exact thing i am currently looking for. But please, let there be performance!
  • Now if these devices can natively run all of the Apps in the Google App Store (move them to our App Store of course) this will actually be a big deal. Google is slowly chipping away at Microsoft's market share, and we need more apps and mobile back ASAP! In a nutshell Microsoft needs to: Go all in on the Cortana speaker and quit doing half baked attempts Natively run Android apps on the Windows platform Actually start competively advertisting its products Return to mobile  Recommitt 9000% to the fan base or else just quit! I know Microsoft have a huge enterprise base, but fans grow up to become CEO's and ultimately choose companies to run their clouds.
  • “Natively run Android apps on the Windows platform”. I dont think you understand what “natively” means.  
  • My body is ready for a new non-pro Surface!  
  • I'm sure you can run Bluestacks on these devices if you really want your Snapchat...
  • I just realized this is a Trojan Horse to a pocketable Windows/ARM PC/Phone that does it all and runs Windows.
  • DOA.
  • These initial devices look great.  I'm hoping performance is good enough.  I'm also looking forward to 10 and 8 inch devices that have been domnated by Android and iOS.
  • Where's the price? That's the only thing that matters. 
  • :))) with windows 10S junk and no apps :))). Another DOA project of Microsoon
  • 13 million true programs + 350.000 store apps. Right.
  • 350.000 store apps :)))) what apps? web wrappers with no functionality over even the website? :)) dream all you want, no one's gonna buy this junk...MS failed to many times, monumentaly, to ever be trusted with anything
  • 1 week usage without recharging? did I read correclty? that will be great
  • glad to see some real pc with arm and not just toys like ipad, android and chrome os
  • As of 2017 the amount of modern and useable Apps on Google play and Itunes eclipses the amount of modern and useable programs/Apps on Windows store/Win32. Dev focus is apps on app stores not win 32 or Windows Store apps. These devices don't fix that issue.
  • Someone explain to me what is the deal with "always connected"? All my computers are already always connected. How is this any different from current?
  • Most computer will go into Sleep/Hibernate mode to conserve power consumption and that will cut off the connections, unless you set your computers to be constantly on but that will be illogical for a mobile computers. While the 'Always Connected' categories will be just like your mobile phones.
  • How much money is Qualcomm & Microsoft  burning in MDF (Market Development Funds)?  This will be a big loser - Windows RT with an expensive cellular connection.  Nothing that new.  Corporate guys can get an x86 laptop or 2:1 with mobile broadband.  Consumers don't want to pay any extra and can use their phones as a hotspot. This will be killed in two years.
  • Kind of sounds like the very limited and failed Chromebooks???
  • except for not sounding anything like them
  • can't wait for the 6" screen variation with LTE, messaging and "phone" skin
  • But will it play Crysis? ;-) J/K! To be completely honest, I'm really excited by the prospect of what this could offer. The benefits of an LTE tablet, mated with the benefits of a conventional Windows laptop! That's really hard to argue with! I'm really starting to feel more and more of a need for something in the Chromebook space in my life. But something like this might be an even better solution if I can find one at a satisfactory confluence of price and performance/quality. After the experiences I've had running a Nextbook Flexx 11, I'm wary of going TOO cheap. Sometimes the least expensive devices are the most overpriced of all. However, too expensive, and I won't be able to justify it. I'll be watching this space with great interest! :-D
  • I feel like I'm the only one seeing that the emperor has no clothes! This is an underpowered device running no applications worth mentioning and even those that it runs it will run slowly. First, it's not Intel. As such, it needs emulation to run Win32 applications. Second, the devices may be cheap but their use is not. They all require data subscriptions. This requires data plans, especially in jursidictions like the USA (Microsoft's most lucrative market). How this is going to be the savior of some mythical mobile Microsoft device is beyond me. It's not an iOS killer. It's not an Android killer. All it does is open up the market to cheaper devices running on non-Intel processors. Windows laptops with mobile data connectivity already exist. While people may claim they want on-the-go connectivity the reality is that mobile laptops are not in high demand because, with few exceptions, most people are already in near constant wifi connectivity at work, at home or in a coffee shop. What it does open up as an opportunity is for Apple or Samsung to provide the SoCs to run Windows on low power devices, thus bypassing Intel. PS it's fascinating watching the people who are True Believers in Microsoft. It's like they have something personally invested in the company. It's for profit people. They go where the money is and they cut losing propositions loose. They may stick with losing propositions longer than companies without deep pockets but they do throw in the towel--Windows Mobile anyone.
  • Obviously you're extremely jaded. And rightly so. But they are marketing this as basically uber battery lower power. And I can certainly see how some people would find that attractive.
  • Ah. I see ...and I think with this, it's finally time to consider saying goodbye to my LTE data-connected (AT&T), 16GB Ram, 250GB SSD, ultralight (ha: when I bought it, way before most of the final hw upgrades, 3½ lbs was still considered an ultralight) Dell laptop, and plan on a laptop tech change. So. I'm provisionally in at this point. This is a business machine for me, so I'm already the target market. And I certainly do see multiple advantages here. On my wish list is a folder though. One where the touch screen folds vertically in two (and you can OPTIONALLY use the fold line as separate, dual displays). AND the keyboard folds in two.  So a travel size of say 1½ lbs and folded dimensions of say 8x8 (let's say the travel dimensions of a Fire HD8 tablet, just thicker)? Oh hell yes. OEM's take notice here. Please. Heck, I'll almost forgive Nadella for cancelling W10 Mobile at that point. Want.
  • Oh. And: Intel hardest hit. ...watch the stock markets on this. These things sell (as I expect them too), and the blow to Intel will be huge going forward. ...took me a couple of minutes to think it through lol.
  • Apple's iPad sales are dwindling not because people are switching to Macbooks...but because of the prevalence of large screen smart phones. This isn't going to change anything.