Microsoft sold only 5.8M Lumia Windows Phones last quarter. Now what?

Today's FY15 Q1 financial report from Microsoft, believe it or not, contains a lot of positive news. In fact, Microsoft stock is trading higher in after-hours trading pushing it to the $48 mark for the first time in a long time. Investors are happy over Microsoft's future.

The reason for the Wall Street exuberance is many of Microsoft's businesses are doing well, to wit:

  • Bing is up 29%
  • Office 365 commercial seats up 66%
  • Consumer licenses up 157%
  • Total commercial bookings up 10%
  • Servers up 9%
  • Azure up 135%

Those almost all fall under the new "Intelligent Cloud" grouping with an overall 8 percent growth for $5.9 billion in revenue. An analyst at FBR Capital Markets, Daniel Ives, is quoted by the New York Times as saying that "…the company "hit it out of the park" with its profits. "Cloud is the epicenter of the growth story".

The bad news, although hardly surprising is the Lumia line of Windows Phones. Microsoft got pulverized with a 54% decline in phone revenue compared to the same quarter last year. That translates into just 5.8 million Lumias sold last quarter versus 9.3 million the year earlier.

The previous quarter's numbers had Microsoft at 8.4 million Lumias sold, which was up for at time from the same period in 2014. Going back even earlier to holiday 2014 and Microsoft peaked at 10.5 million Lumias.

It is not surprising to see the steady drift of declining Lumia sales when you look back at the last year. The Lumia 830 and Lumia 735 did little to woo new customers, and US carriers are abandoning Lumias and Windows Phones as interest – and new devices – wane.

Seeing that 5.8 million number puts things in perspective and when combined with losing Mint today and things are dire.

Looking forward

There are a few ways out of this for Microsoft going forward:

  • Successful launch of the Lumia 950 and Lumia 950 XL that garners renewed interest from consumers
  • Halo effect from the rest of Microsoft's successes
  • Universal Windows apps and Windows Bridges stopping the app hemorrhaging

A succesful launch of the Lumia 950 and Lumia 950 XL is crucial for a rebound even if to steady things. If those phones are reviewed poorly – and the app-gap will be a factor for reviewers – and if customers treat it like the next BlackBerry or Fire Phone, then Windows Phone as we know may be over.

Besides the Acer Jade Primo and Alcatel OneTouch there are not many other OEMs who are supporting Microsoft anymore. HTC is fighting to stay alive with Android and Samsung is busy with the Galaxy S series. Neither appears to have any plans for Windows 10 Mobile.

The low-cost emerging market strategy kept Windows Phone in the game for a while, but those demographics do not turn into money. Those users spend less on apps and hardware with razor-thin profit margins. Microsoft needs premium phones with high consumer appeal. I am not sure these new Lumias fit the bill.

Above and beyond the Lumia 950 and Lumia 950 XL there is the lackluster Lumia 550 and as-yet unannounced Lumia 'Saana'. That latter phone I'm told sports a 5-inch AMOLED display has a 5 MP front-facing camera and packs a Snapdragon 410 processor. It targets the Lumia 640 price range and is unlikely to be a very exciting release (planned, right now, for February).

After that - "Surface phone"? Maybe. If Windows 10 Mobile survives that long. Great projects are canceled all the time at Microsoft if they don't make sense.

Momentum and UWP

Luckily, after today's report Microsoft has a lot of positive energy. In plain English, everything else they are doing is working and turning a profit. Sure, Windows 10 and PC sales are down, but expectations for the Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book are high amidst positive reviews and word-of-mouth.

Expectations are high that Windows 10 will see a turnaround in the PC business in this next quarter. This shift could result in a halo-effect where positive Windows 10 momentum helps prop up the phone business.

However, this is a long shot in a world dominated by iPhones and Androids. Still, in many ways it works for Apple and their hardware ecosystem. And PCs are dominant in the world. Will new Surface owners yearn for a Windows 10 Mobile?

The final piece in the puzzle is Universal apps and the Bridges – Astoria, Islandwood, Centennial, Westminster – are all positioned to make bringing over apps easier. Out of those Bridges, only Westminster is active (universal web-apps). Astoria (Android) and Islandwood (iOS) are still in development and Centennial (Win32 apps) is not expected until early 2016. The question is once devs have access to those supposedly simple porting tools will the use them? Would devs bother to 'tick the box' during Store deployment to target phones?

Although Windows Continuum is interesting for mobile, I am not yet convinced it will push Lumia sales for consumers. I'd love to be proven wrong on that.

Microsoft is in an odd position in late 2015. Everything about the company is looking great. Premium hardware abounds with the new Surfaces, HoloLens, Elite Controller, Xbox One lineup, and Band 2. Windows 10 is looking to be a big success, and Microsoft's cloud business is doing gangbusters.

Even Bing is now profitable with $1 billion in revenue with 20 percent of that coming from Windows 10 devices! And the tech industry and investors are rallying for Redmond for once.

…And yet Lumia is there limping along. So, does Microsoft use its new success to help prop up their mobile business or do they get rid of it? Dumping Windows 10 Mobile removes much of the Universal Windows Platform (UWP) raison d'etre. I have yet to see an argument how Microsoft can abandon Windows 10 Mobile and keep UWP a thing for Windows 10.

I have no idea what Microsoft will do. I've already noted how Microsoft didn't seem that enthused with those new Lumias and the lack of US carrier support is going to be a big deal. On the other hand, this week's Insider release of build 10572 has me excited.

As always with Microsoft the next six months is going to be very interesting.

Daniel Rubino

Daniel Rubino is the Editor-in-chief of Windows Central, head reviewer, podcast co-host, and analyst. He has been covering Microsoft since 2007 when this site was called WMExperts (and later Windows Phone Central). His interests include Windows, laptops, next-gen computing, and for some reason, watches. Before all this tech stuff, he worked on a Ph.D. in linguistics, watched people sleep (for medical purposes!), and ran the projectors at movie theaters because it was fun.

  • There were no phones to buy. Technically right now few choices. We have the 950, 950XL, and 550 but this don't come out for another month.
  • Many people buy low/mid devices. The 640 has been out for a while.
  • That's exactly the point. No new phones to buy all quarter.
  • And in the US, trying to find a 640 was like pulling teeth. Wonderful marketing job on that one.
    That said. I think the 640 was released as a stop gap phone. Something to fill in while the W10M devices were being developed.
  • I don't think it was a stop gap phone. The 520/521 generated a lot of interest in 2013 and Microsoft seemed to be constantly looking for a replacement but never finding one. The 5xx phones introduced in 2014 were not very good, the 635 ho hum. The 640/640 XL was ok but the flood of new low- and mid-range Android phones overwhelmed those phones.
  • Man, just the flood of bio-identical Lumia was a problem.  I mean, how would you explain the differences between the Lumia 640, 730, 735, and 830?  Snapdragon 400, 1GB RAM, 720p screen, SD card slot, replacebale battery. WHY DID THEY KEEP REMAKING THE SAME DAMN PHONE???
  • All I can say is, AT&T had better bloody deliver in its "exclusive" period.
  • It's crazy how many similar models were released. The stupid increments of 5 i.e. 635, 640; 530, 535 etc does not do them any favours.     
  • and no flagships!
  • oh wait, you forgot the 435!!!
  • So much this, it's so confusing to customers doing this. Just have a few models that are the same all over the world, like this:
    Lumia 150 - 4" 720p Low-budget phone with 1GB ram, maybe 16GB storage and SD Card slot ~80$
    Lumia 550 and 550 XL - 4.8-5" and 5.8-6" for XL 1080p Mid-range with 2GB ram, 32GB storage, SD Card slot ~ 180$
    Lumia 950 and 950 XL - Soon to be released.
    Surface Phone - 5.5" 1440p 4GB ram, 64-128GB storage x64 Intel cpu, real fucking epic high-end phone. Maybe add a tougher version for active people This would make a range of 6-7 phones, that are the same all over the world, from low-end (but still really good) to high-end magensium Surface phone. It would make sense to customers instead of like the trillion different weird models that has been. And MS should co-lab with some celebs like Apple did, sending out free phones to them, maybe even sponsor a huge event like the Oscar's or Teen Choice Awards and give out cool new high-end phones to make the kids start talking about them. Microsofts advertising for the Lumia phones has been shit to be honest and they need to be more aggressive in their marketing.
  • Dont be stupid.. There's no surface phone.. Stop talking bs
  • You miss one device: A 4.5" (max) mid-range - flagship. Like the 820 was. Only reason I turned to Windows Phone. Only problem for MS: It still runs like hell ;-)
  • Because Nokia left them a load of unused parts. So Ms thought they'd sell them. It's marketing, renaming something to make it seem different
  • Misdirection / Desperation
  • Those phones at all markedly different in their user experience, no one thinks about specs when using the phone. They are all so different 640 is a great larger screen mid range phone with sleek body. 730/735 are just old fashioned phone with a Lumia 800 design, Amoled screen and no NFC. Where the 830 had a nice weighted quality feel to it and had good user experience. I still have 830 and 640 both are great devices still.
  • I know I followed the 640 from the day it was announced. I knew I liked Windows and the 530 wouldn't do it. So, while waiting for someone to make up their mind about when and where, I got a 635. Now the 640, on my carrier but.....IF you can find a WalMart that has one (3 of the 5 in my area didn't have a clue what I was talking about). But I got it.
    I think what I mean about stop gap is that it was marketed as being W10M ready. It seems to have been a teaser, more than 635 but not really a Windows 10 phone. It met the minimum requirements for the new system, the 5" screen, 1Gig of Ram.
    Maybe "Transitional Phone" would be more accurate.
  • And charging between $50 and $450 for it.
  • You said it! They all had the same bloody specs on different form factors with different cameras. Hopefully 2016 will wipe the slate clean. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Actually there were changes in size, looks and camera which is one of the major pricing points, which you conviniently went around. I dont know what people expect? Nokia like experimentation in form factor of each phone? Well, as crazy as it may seem, but even Samsung had similar phones in mid range with A, E and what not. So even they were pretty much similar in specs and infact more confusing than the Lumia series in terms of remebering model names!  Infact most of the Samsung even looked the same which was even more confusing! Hence I dont blame MS fully for this. It is also due to something called "low brand awareness" from customers plus inertia to move to a new OS.  Also the major reason for  hiatus (or loss of focus) from MS was because it was totally involved in Surface and Windows 10. Hence it didnt have the time to keep pushing some junk phone for every 2 months like Samsung does.
  • Because had the Nokia logo not the Microsoft logo that is why and also was decent the 520 camera a thing that the 530 camera is pure garbage and without flash when now even the Moto E with same price tag offer flash camera and frontal camera plus LTE out of box , in fact I believe the 530 is in reality an nokia Asha with Windows phone loaded as accident
  • Yeah technically the 640 probably was for sale in the US. Just not anywhere in places where people actually buy phones. Going to be the same with the 950/XL.
    I assume that nobody at Microsoft is surprised that their phones aren't selling when nobody can buy the darn things.
  • yeah exactly. Microsoft should focus on countries that people actually buy Windows Phones like Canada, UK, Eastern European countries, Russian Federation, India.
  • And the rest of the countries don't care a damn that is your idea roham?
  • I think MS should focus on releasing Devices/apps/services to countries/regions where it is/was selling better... Work on getting cortana released to those countries so that users do not have to change the Region to get that... Release their apps sooner and with similar functionality/polish as on iOS/Android, unless the WP platform/api is not robust enough to support the same features/performance which means that WP is dead anyway...
  • That would mean I have to move there and I don't wanna do that, sorry... =[
  • Plenty of places to get them-ATT store, ATT online, Bestbuy, Wal-Mart..
  • Yes they have a few 635 hanging on the prepaid racks at those places. In the last year I've not seen a single Windows Phone at the carrier carts in malls, at the Best Buy, Target or Walmart contract phone displays, at Costco, at carrier stores other than AT&T... In other words, most places where people buy phones.
  • Don't try my local WalMart, MetroPCS as of last week "Don't carry them anymore, oh wait I think there's one in the back", AT&T, I'd rather not. T-Mobile, well we know how that one went. BestBuy, at&t again.
    So yes, you have to hunt for one. The carriers have control. And they don't care.
  • are these in Canada? nope except for Walmart that doesn't really have any phone selection beside Apple and Samsung
  • Most of us aren't on AT&T
  • I wish more of us were on T-Mobile. At least as more of the OEM's we might see carrier interest rise. Apparently the new Alcatel will see T-Mobile's shelves. Who knows? Maybe even a 950...
  • and the pricing between Canada and US really got people. I saw ads by Microsoft offering the Lumia 640 for $129 but when I went to the store (and other retail companies), they were selling them for $250. Such a rip-off
  • Only the XL was ever $250+. The regular 640 has always been $79 in the US for the AT&T model (go phone), which you can easily get unlocked for free.
  • What? No it isn't. The 640 is easily found in any Best Buy, Target or Microsoft store. I bought one for myself, my father in law, and another for a friend. The problem wasn't availability at all. The problem is that it's been a *year and a half* since Microsoft put in ANY effort on its phone business. Low end Lumias and modest updates to Windows Phone 8 are not and were not enough, as many of us have said all along. It isn't iPhone or Android that's killing Windows Phone, it's MICROSOFT.
  • Maybe it's a regional thing. I have never seen a 640 for sale in any store except the Microsoft store. Based on sales, I'd say my experience is common.
  • I bought my 640 at a T-Mobile store here in Port Orchard, WA  Aug. 2015. Loaded Windows 10 on it a couple months back. Works great. Love the platform. It just seems that there is no future for it if Microsoft continues this lackluster and half assed support.
  • I believe the 640 was never sold in Best Buy stores, only online, and only the AT&T variant.  No T-Mo, and nothing on shelves.  The only people buying phones in that scenario are people who already plan to get it.  It does nothing for growth. Wal-Mart, on the other hand, does carry the 640.  I got one there just two weeks ago.
  • I bought my 640 at a Best Buy store. It is the AT&T variant, yes.
  • As long as you want to use AT&T. BestBuy, Target, the Microsoft Store, all AT&T phones. You've got the T-Mobile at WalMart if you can find it, or a store that even stocks it. So, thanks to T-Mobile, Verizon and Sprint. They gave AT&T an "Exclusive" on that one too.
    And they wonder why Microsoft doesn't trust them with the 950.
  • It is not that Lumia doesn't sell.  It is that MS doesn't sell.  MS has pulled most of the mid to high end phones during the last quarter.  L640 is probably the only one that is doing something in US.  MS seems to be putting WP phones on hold while waiting for W10M and re-tooling their factories for L950/L950XL. Microsoft store should resell unlocked Acer Jade Primo as the affordable flagship side by side with L950/L950XL. It will help boosting the Continuum awareness for W10M phones.  
  • That's, that's just not true. As this very article said, MS killed it this quarter in everything but Lumia. What are you talking about?
  • Our local AT&T stores don't have Windows phones for sale for the past whole quarter.  Even L1520 has disappeared.  The no-show of flagship L930 at AT&T or McLaren in 2014 has really hurted the US market.  The WP momentum generated since L920 and L1020 have gradually vaporized. During the last two years, iPhone and Samsung have launched two generations of flagships while WP is basically standing still and rely on L830 and L1520 to fight the battle.  Now we see the result.  There is nobody else to blame besides Nokia/MS. Now right before we see a glimmer of light before the W10M launch, MS dropped bomb about their WP restructuring and refocusing plans.  The market and users were so confused and started losing confidence in WP's future.  At the same time, MS has been hard at work to beef up the support for iPhone and Android phones. That has further encouraged WP users to switch platform.  It is like shooting yourself with your own gun.  These things have all been happening during the last quarter.  Are you surprised to learn the decreased units sold?  Who should we blame?  
  • Ya I am pretty done waiting.
  • I could have waited, but seeing the price of the unit I want costs ... well... 200 euros MORE than what I paid for my G4 when it came out, I don't think I'm going to invest in it sadly. I'd love to buy back into WP but at that price, and knowing the problems with the "app gap" which I experienced on my 1520 and 930 this very year... I can understand why people are opting for other devices. I really hope MS lowers the price. They NEED to get these awesome phones into people's hands. WP as a UI is superior, in my opinion, to Android and iOS. I love how it works! But ... It's far too expensive for a flagship that's from a declining company with a less than optimum app ecosystem which is also getting less support... :(  I won't be paying 700 euros for ANY flagship device; it's a phone.... and 700 euros is a lot of buying power around the house and for gadgets. hehe. 
  • I dont understand the issue.  You can get an Android device and get all the Microsoft Apps inlcuding Cortana plus all the apps you need from google play store. The only thing missing is live tiles and the smooth OS. That is all we are talking about.  And to be frank that is what MS is doing strategically. THe phones are around to keep the story going of whats on your phone is on your PC is on your tablet story.  That wont sell phones.  MS has already decided what they are doing about phones we just refuse to accept it because we love the OS and live tiles!
  • But I like the live tile and the feel of the OS. My cheap Moto E is an excellent little phone and Android 5.0 is a good OS. But Windows Phone 8.1, and even Windows 10 Mobile in its unfinished state, is BETTER. I love the live tiles. I can't get something similar and as well done easily on Android. I want WP! :(
  • My feelings exactly. I have the IP 6P, but I love my L830 more b/c of the OS.
  • While all apps of Windows phone are in IOS and android even sway is on IOS while haven't done anything to Windows phone 8.1 and sway started to show up on September October 2014 an whole year without anything to offer to their customers, plus an instagram beta and which don't worked and Even Skype get in Android periodically upgraded? That way wants Microsoft sell their product? even Cortana Is in Android and to people don't care if can dial out won't dial for you numbers, and also nobody will be purchasing a Windows phone by continuum so won't expect that will save to Microsoft that thing if were incorporated within the phone and just with an easy connection and without an accessories
  • MS is soley to blame. NOKIA's enthusiasm with all their phones, especially L1020 were killed upon the purchase of NOKIA devices from MS. Can't understand MS's stradegy upon acquiring the latter. MS litterary halted the production and killed all NOKIA's enthusiasm for WP. F***ing MS - what the hell is wrong with them? They've been battling over this issue from WM times - why can't they get this right?   Actually they were busy this year - in producing IOS and ANDRIOD apps - some exclusive and all better then on their own OS. Can you blame ppl in not getting a WP?
  • It's not Microsoft, let's put the real name to it, Satya Nadella. Since he took over, Microsoft Mobile has become nothing more than lip service. Microsoft under Nadella has led the charge to iOS and Android for all apps including theirs. How can anyone argue that BoA, Chase or Mint should make their apps for WP when Microsoft (since Nadella) doesn't?
    The only hope is Android apps on Windows Mobile at this point, meaning C# and Microsoft dev tools is the next abandonment by Nadella.
    Nadella has done some good, but he is obviously no friend of Windows 10 Mobile OS or devices.
  • I totally agree. Nadella's head is in the cloud because he is a cloud guy.  He never liked WP and he never will.  Letting WP die will put MS at the mercies of Apple and Google. A healthy WP platform can only benefit MS.  Nadella is pruning away at WP until there is nothing left. Big mistake...
  • I disagree. As CEO he's doing the right thing and focused on what it's more profitable for the company. WP has been a problem from day one and I have no idea why they can't figure this out. Android and iOS has so many more features and it works. I have the Lumia 1020 (which I LLLLOOOOVVEEEE) but running the latest update, still sucks. Groove Music sucks! Spotify crashes all the time. Messaging crashes all the time and I can't change my ringtone to my favorite music, really!!!! I wish I could put android on my L1020, but I will give 950XL one last chance.
  • Look at the result for Microsoft. Clearly, for the company, Nadella's strategy is the right one and it's working. It sucks for WP, but it's the right path for the company to focus on where the big money is.  
  • And then we consider... ....perhaps they are doing more and better than we think!
  • The big money is in mobile phones. About 60%of Apples income is from iPhones and mobile web browsing has overtook desktop web browsing. Microsoft would be foolish to let Windows mobile disappear. The reason sales are down is because Microsoft is taking far too long to get Windows 10 for mobile out. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Microsoft got broad sided by Apple with iPhone and Google with their services and their consumer focus. Microsoft arrogantly believed their enterprise dominance would carry over to the consumer market...NOPE. Microsoft made ALOT of mistakes with their mobile strategy and it will be a miracle if Windows 10 Mobile survives. I give them two years to turn their mobile situation around or else they should throw in the towel: This from a Windows Phone fan, gotta be realistic. I DO NOT RELISH CHOOSING iPhone or Android as my next mobile platform: I ***HATE*** THEM BOTH.
  • Well, maybe..... ....or who knows what Amazon may produce? But, I would say I've seen all this before with Xbox, Surface and Bing.....they were all dead at one point and lost money, but Microsoft just continued until they made profits. I see Lumia being the same?
  • Well ms is not selling.true.. the gave up selling lumia in lebanon Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Definitely agree here,since Acer is a partner making Windows 10 Phones and we see from their presentation that it's awesome phone like the 950,sell unlocked in Msft store
  • i tihnk your right i think the 950 wasnt pushed heavily by microsoft casure they want to do a surfasce phone and they only want to do it when windiows 10 is more mature, Also giveds them some much needed space to develope a great phone, its just a shame they couldnt have just added a bit of premium to the budget loooks of the 950 lineup.
  • I can't believe this is such a hot topic! It's so obvious that pulling back for now is their strategy to grow moving forward.
  • Pulling back is their strategy to cust their losses short and then get rid of it later so that shreholders don't ask them why they are not in mobile... They can say they tried and failed... I think MS might start producing Android phones by 2017...
  • I don't. MS has enough money to stick it out for the long con. They can afford to lose money on mobile for quite awhile. How many years did Bing lose money?
  • If that were the case, they would have abandonded universal apps, and wouldnt be taking losses on Windows 10 to get it on devices as quickly as possible. They know they will not have success selling phones without apps. They tried, it didnt work. BUT, if they can get apps by selling tablets and PCs with Windows 10, they can come back and promote a phone that has apps. It just flushing money to try to push it now.
  • Exactly. They've already built a lock screen and notifications for Android. They need to go where their customers are, and unfortunately, that's not Windows phone. I could stomach Android again if it looked and ran like WP. And if Microsoft actually controlled the updates, it could even be fairly secure...
  • If Microsoft made a skinned Android, I'd be OK with that. It would suck to have to use the Google apps though.
  • Yep. They are cutting the losses on phones and pushing tablets, where they can see success - tablets that have the same apps store as phones. If the tablet/PC market can grow the store, they will be set for a real push on phones that actually has a chance at success.
  • And I really do not understand how an article for "the most read windows related site" can say absolute numbers and base all on that. I mean, has marketshare changed? As far as I know it did not change at all so the situation is stable at around 3% worldwide with many EU countries with as many iOS as WP at around 10-15%. Nothing has changed and it is a good result since the little effort put in new lumias till today. Now MS will deliver two good phones and a great OS. Two good phones from other manifacturers coming in the next months too. Universal apps. In other words this article looks completely wrong to me, nothing changed at all and that number does not mean any news.
  • Agree
  • Sorry but your statement does not compute when all I see out there is $800 iphones and Galaxy S6 edge +
  • That's a good point, LG is the 4th (maybe the 5th or 6th today with Chinese companies) carrier regarding global marketshare behind Samsung, Apple and Xiaomi and LG only got about $US100 million in profit, which tells that only profitable companies making cellphones today are Apple, Sony and Xiaomi.
  • Huawei is even bigger than Xiaomi.
  • Just about to say that. Huawei is officially a larger manufacturer than Xiaomi.
  • It does. Over here hardly anyone buys 800 dollar phones.
  • Also there is a price factor nobody would purchase an Windows phone by 800 dollars and an platform which are uncertain that will mature and grew up in such case people prefers an iPhone or s6 instead of, the problem on here that Microsoft is comfortable that the Lumia brands is a niche brands not an universal brands there is a marketing department problem
  • Yes, in fact uncertainty point is very important. I already spent money on Surface RT which was abandoned by Microsoft. It is risky to buy Windows Phone now....
  • Its not a risk at all
  • and thats Microsofts point moving forward, they will not cater to this low end market anymore.
  • You think it's the lack of? Hell no it's MS, they had an opportunity when Apple was stale and Samsung released an inferior product about 2 years ago. The fact they keep doing exclusive crap is hurting them. Pay up, offer sales associate incentives (extra kick back for offering their phones) damn it, you have the money use it. Sales associate don't recommend it because the lack of apps give it a higher chance of a charge back which hurt their pockets. At the end of the day it's all about $$$.
  • Sales associates make most of their money through commissions of accessories.  They basically only recommend Samsung Galaxy S and iPhones so that they can sell accessories.  Even if you tell them that you already have a bunch at home, they will tell you that you need these new ones, because the phone is new and might not work with what you have at home.  I've been through it more than once. This is why I only buy unlocked phones.  I think pretty soon Apple is probably going to only offer unlocked devices online, instead of making SKUs for the specific carriers. On the Android side, the Nexus line has been this way since inception.
  • Apple at least in Chile offers in their physical stores unlocked phones , so are both choices or an unlocked phone direct from Apple or the direct to carrier one I'm Chile we won't use CDMA so don't get special versions, CDMA got dump by their awful ability of offer multimedia the carrier which used it just shut down the CDMA 1X and uses only GSM,WCDMA 3G, LTE
  • The issue isnt the 640, the issue is 1) No one knows Microsoft Lumia 2) MS has made absolutely bo effort to sell in international markets. Countries and stores that used to hold Nokia Lumias suddenly had zero.
    My dad wanted a 640 next to his Note, it wasnt available in Beirut but Lumias have had a decent presence in countries like Kuwait, so I tried getting hold of one in Kuwait, every shop was like whats a Lumia 640? It doesnt exist.
    Even Carrefour in the middle east doesn't hold Lumias anymore. The middle east used to be one of Nokia's stronghold but ever since MS took over Lumia they have had practically zero presence here. Im not sure if the situation is similar in countries other than the US and Europe but obviously their sales are going to decrease if they are not putting the slightest effort to make their devices available across international markets.
  • Funny you mentioned this. As Android manufacturers don't have a dedicated store over here in Bangladesh, but we have a ton of Microsoft stores on the same floor.
  • Then youre really lucky and Im glad for you, as it's been a mission to get hold of a 6 around these areas.
  • Woah yea man.. can't find any lumia in lebanon too... Chi bi ya22iss Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Yea 3anjad it's a shame and the worst part of it all is we actually have an official Microsoft HQ here based in Downtown.
  • Eh 3anjad. Hope the situation change Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • In Chile only find in certain places the 530-535-and that is all asked in Claro Chile and told me that haven't got any Lumia phone to their stores since May
  • An 840 with slightly better camera and SD600 would have been good if they wanted to maintain sales. People want new phones and just the 640 isn't going to do that by itself. Just like Apple fans do not complain about having a new generation just to add one or two features or to change the chipset, MS should have released something with more value until the 950 and 950XL were out with W10
  • But if you're looking at the difference here: From 9.3 to 5.8 that's huge. Blame Satiya for that. He doesn't care about Windows phone. His whole family has iPhones I bet
  • I'd be curious to have an MS employee in Redmond take notice of what phone Nadella uses and report back.  I really wonder if it'd be a WP phone...
  • Nadella cares about WP. He's the one that even stated if everyone stops, they'll keep making 'em. It's the whole crux of the *universal* apps. No one cares if an app will run on both a PC and an Xbox. I'd blame Ballmer for the poor state of Windows Phone right now. Windows 10 and Windows 10 Mobile should have happened back when Windows 8 occurred. 
  • But, as was said, those types of customers don't spend much on apps and they don't translate to customers upgrading to more premium devices.
  • I have a 521 that I bought as a temp phone because I was expecting a 1030 & 1530 refreshes a year ago. There have been no phone options. If Sony put out a Windows version of their flagship I'd jump in a heart beat. I will be buying a 950 XL and eventually a Band 2.
  • And they won't be on America's largest carrier, so I'll be keeping my Icon.
  • Icon will be my last WP since VZ wont carry the 950. End of Windows Phone is already here for me
  • I'd never restrict myself to just my carrier's handsets. It's so much better to go BYOD, in most cases. And I'd not be inclined to restrict myself to a carrier that doesn't let me bring my own handsets. It'd have to be the only carrier that had coverage in my town.
  • That's all well and good for you, but if Verizon is the only carrier with acceptable service in your area, you use a Verizon phone.
  • My 928 is on its last legs and I can't leave Verizon due to coverage issues.  Unfortunately, looks like the IPhone for me.  
  • What's wrong with your 928? I got mine on launch day in May 2013 and it's still running like a gem. I'll keep rocking it as long as I can, and then when I can't anymore, I'll replace it with an Icon. I'll never give up Windows Phone--at least, not for iOS or Android. Never will I go back to those two. Anyway, it's been a frust​rating ride, for sure. I think Windows Phone had a lot of upside around the summer of 2013. But they didn't advertise anywhere near as much as they needed to, and the carrier exclusivity in the U.S. always killed their chances. It's a shame they didn't go all in back then. I think they'd be hovering around 6% market share right now instead of 2.7%.  
  • Having issues with the on/off button - sometimes it doesn't work.  Also, I have some screen burn that is annoying.  I would like to get something with a bigger screen.  Would like to stick with Windows but I can't switch carriers due to coverage issue. At this point I will probably go with Apple, although I'm not very happy about it.  
  • Go on EBay and get yourself an Icon. My family has three and it's an amazing phone. I also just replaced my sister's 928 with a new Icon found on EBay for less than $300. If you really don't want to switch to iPhone, this will at least buy you another year to see if MS can make any headway with Verizon.
  • Agree 100% ill do the same never wanna use those two platforms again only to help friends who don't know how to use them!!
  • I also got the 928 on launch day. Since Verizon no longer is going to have Windows Phones I just upgraded to an iPhone. The speed difference is amazing. I didn't even realize how slow the 928 was until I started using the iPhone. The battery life of the iPhone is much better as well. The only thing I miss on the 928 is the camera. The 928's camera was really good. Other then that, Microsoft just waited way to long to get new "higher end" phones out. Well, technically they still aren't out. I disagree on the advertising in 2013 as well. They did advertise quite a bit, at least in my area. Remeber this one Still one of my favorite commercials.
  • EBay. They have 930s, 928s and whatever else you can think of galore.
  • I'm actually switching to a network that has zero coverage where I work simply because I'm fed up with Verizon and how they treat their customers. I'll take the inconvenience over being pushed around. And in any case, your reply completely ignores MassDeduction's last sentence. He already stated that the only way he'd go Verizon is if it was the only carrier with coverage.
  • I think you are correct. I am struggling with the decision to leave the platform...I left ATT for Verizon, for the Icon! N Microsoft leaves me behind by not working it out with Verizon. Microsoft will fail completely in mobil if they don't get serious...Hand Verizon a fat stack of cash to get the phone on their network or watch sales continue downhill.
  • Many sources have said that MS put the bands in the phone for VZW but that VZW wouldn't work with them
  • Yes, I heard that on Windows Weekly. But what it boils down to is that it doesn't matter whose fault it is - I can't get it on Verizon, so I can't use it. Now, if someone manages to get it working, I'll be all ears, but for now I'm resigned to hanging on to the Icon as long as I need to.
  • Those sources are incorrect.  If Microsoft had included CDMA bands then you could at least put an already-activated Verizon SIM into the phone and use it, but they didn't.
  • Because nobody in the world than the USA and Canada uses CDMA almost the 99% of the world dumped to CDMA signal by economic reasons and lack of manufacturers of devices in CDMA 1x RTT,EVDOetc variant
  • Since it is on the chip, your statement doesn't make sense.
  • @trwrt: You can't put an unapproved phone on Verizon's network. that's not how CDMA works. Verizon has to approve the MEID to allow it on the network. The radio chip within the 950/950XL can support the correct bands, but MS disabled it, most likely to stop people from doing exactly what you're saying and then getting mad at Microsoft for 'misleading' them by saying it works on that band.
  • Yet the icon on Verizon didn't do shit to help
  • verizon doesnt push at all lumias so its no wonder things are gong south with verizon
  • Well them having the newest flagship pushed me to switch to their network. Microsoft not letting me update to specific insider builds on demand kills the phone...With the insider program Microsoft has the power to update phones without the need for Verizon and they still don't do it. Microsoft didn't care to release the 930 for ATT and they don't care about mobile at all anymore. They are not taking this seriously anymore and they don't deserve my money for their now inferior products.
  • Isn't carrier exclusivity illegal or at least shouldn't it be? The way I see it the carriers killed WP in America. MS is just between the hammer and the anvil in it's home market and has to choose one or the other
  • Yeah..... I don't know if it should be illegal or not, but it isn't. On one hand, customers would benefit. On the other, there's the "free" market (so much for that working out). But you've nailed the real kicker, as far as I'm concerned. Home market. Microsoft is an American company. Yeah, they're global, but at their heart, it is a US company. And they can't succeed at home. To me that's a black eye no matter whose fault it is.
  • I would change carrier, but I guess we like our phones differently. Did you even try the new build? If you doubt you gotta make sure. Try, your out of windows anyway
  • I'll admit, I complained about coverage and service from other providers, then I got the feeling that MS and VZW would f*ck up on windows 10. I switched to TMO. Faster LTE, and now I can get any GSM phone I want...bigger selection... Plus, TMO has covered me whereever I have been traveling...
  • This is the biggest problem.   Carriers have way to much control, and any customer should be able to bring what phone they want to that carrier as long as it's capatible.   The US Carriers need to change the way things are done, but they are too greedy.
  • Because we let them.... I would not stay with verizon (or any carrier) and buy unlocked from MS, you pay more when you jump or go att, an unlocked phone works everywhere.
  • Some of us don't have a choice because of coverage.
  • I understand some of you
  • The situation with carriers In the US always comes across as a huge mess to me (I live in the UK where they aren't perfect, but it's easy enough to switch between them and use the phone you want)
  • Looking at it feels like the US carriers made deals to cover or not cover different areas or states
  • Trust me - it's a huge mess to those of us who have to deal with it, too.
  • It seems like an even bigger mess because Verizon and Sprint use CDMA instead of GSM like pretty much everyone else. Compound that with Verizon being assholes in general.
  • They won't be in Canada either. Pity.
  • Verizon is marginally larger than AT&T this quarter.  Don't be an ass and pretend they are so much bigger than AT&T, they're almost exactly the same size.
  • By your own admission, I stated a fact. Take the holier-than-thou name-calling to your mommy.
  • What does how large they are have to do with whether or not they provide coverage in your area...Terrible logic
  • Where did I say that their size had anything to do with coverage in my area? I didn't. I simply used an identifying characteristic - America's largest carrier - instead of their name. It worked, as everyone knew who I was talking about. The only terrible logic is the logic that put words into my mouth.
  • What hopmedic said is spot on.  I'm in the exact same boat.  Verizon has, by far, the best coverage in my neck of the woods.  AT&T coverage blows, as does TMobile and Sprint.  I too have an Icon.  It's been great and I'd love to stay with MS, but the fact that Verizon and MS can't seem to work things out is simply MADDENING.  So I'll be staying with my Icon until the day it croaks.  And to those who say the app gap is a myth, I say pfffft.  It's absolutely real.  Neither my bank nor my investment house offer apps that even remotely provide the functionality given by Android and iOS.  I don't see this changing without some momentum in Win10 Mobile.
  • Yup.
  • I believe the only reason VZN got bigger than ATT is they bought out another carrier?
  • (VZN > ATT) != matters. What matters is that by blocking out CDMA, roughly half of America is alienated.
  • Even if you max that out, you are talking of 150 million customers (it isn't that much, but let's be generous) in a marketplace of billions. Microsoft is thinking globally. Why deal with VZW horrible history, crappy product support and onerous demands?
  • just remember, its most likely Verizon's fault that CDMA is blocked out. Many people aren't aware that you can't bring just any unlocked phone onto Verizon's network. Verizon has to OK that phone. So, if they didn't disable CDMA on the radio chip, many people would have purchsed the phone and then got mad (most likely incorrectly at MS) when the phone still wouldn't work on Verizon's network. Just remember, Verizon is the one that is blocking the phone, not Microsoft. And who knows what Verizon wanted in exchange. You can't assume that Microsoft could afford simply any request.
  • I'll be using my Icon and my wife will keep using hers while I transition over to Tmo or ATT on a 950XL. Already doing some testing on Tmo with a L930 to see how well they work in my area. Once I see which is better, I'll move my wife's acct, too. Verizon can go F themselves.
  • Yeah I agree... everyone is waiting for the 950s
  • everyone that wants a windows phone may be waiting for the 950, that isn't a lot ofpe ople. 
  • You should check the /r/windowsphone subreddit.  There's a fair amount of iPhone and Android users asking about Windows Phone and Windows 10 in that subreddit.  Microsoft could defintely have a halo effect from their Surface line, it seems to already have people interested.
  • Absolutely correct. There's no surprise to this news at all. It should have been expected given that the proiduct available has been out for some time, and that many WP users have been waiting for a flagship. I find it surprising that they sold that many when there  hasn't been a flagship release for a long time.
  • So if this -54% sales decline was "expected" then how much do you expect Windows Phone revenues to change this quarter with the 950/950 XL/550 on sale soon? 54% higher? :/
  • Because of no Lumia 950xl on Verizon, I've already, reluctantly, moved on to a Note 5. I was ready to pre-order a 950xl too. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • They're not worse because in emerging markets these low-mid phones still sell quite a bit, I live in Brazil and here WP is doing really well in terms of market share 5.9% vs 3.5% of iOS, it's small compared to Android, but still. Also, if they manage to relase the 950/950XL here with a good price I'm pretty sure it would sell quite a lot considering the prices of other companies' flagships, and since carrier avaibality is not very important here (90% of the people use pre-paid SIM-cards) they wouldn't have problems with that either, so they can still grow, but not necessaraly in the US.
  • The price is the single biggest issue I have with the 950/950XL's. In Australia they will be the same, if not more, than a Surface Pro 3. That is an insane amount of money for a phone. I was expecting to pay around AU$800, but it looks like it will be AU$1100-1200 (950/950XL). My i5 SP3 cost me AU$900 + KB. Granted the exchange rate is much worse now, but still they should be able to subsidise it or at least bring it in at the same level as the exchange rate (it's about $250 too expensive, even with 10% tax included)
  • I really want the 950XL but the $1200 their asking for it is steep. I don't know if I should buy it or just hold onto my Lumia 920 and see where Windows 10 Mobile is heading. I don't want to be in a position where I've bought a you-beaut phone and Microsoft drop Mobile.
  • I definitely don't see them dropping it in the next couple of years... I'm willing to jump on board, but I don't see the average user picking a Windows Phone over an iPhone or Android device at that price. Sure there are cheaper mid-range and low-end devices, but many people want the best phone they can get.
  • You are either insane or blind, no one is asking for $1200 it's a <$700 device as they announced it
  • I guess that makes you blind. If you read my post you'll see we're talking about AU$ (Australian dollars) and $1200 is for the 950XL For reference that's more expensive than the i5 128GB SP3 on sale for $1188 (I paid AU$900 for SP3 in January when exchange rate was better)
  • FYI AU$1200 converts back to US$865 which is far more than "<$700" (even taking into account the 10% tax included in the Aussie price)
  • Hey Schlubadub - How much is an IPhone in Australia ?
  • For iPhone 6 it's AU$ 929 for 16 GB or $1079 for 64 GB. 6s is $1079 and 6s+ is $1,229. So the 950 is priced higher than all but the most expensive iPhone :\ I'm just hoping the retail pricing is a bit cheaper, as I've only seen pricing on the Microsoft store so far.
  • But the world isn't made by USA,INDIA, BRAZIL AND RUSSIA, in Chile just Microsoft don't care a damn by my country, in Chile is 22 millons mobiles activates versus 17 minions of people so why Microsoft ignore us? I know it's an small market and country so don't care a damn compared with India or Brazil but I feel Microsoft treat to their customers as if were a prostitute I use and then forget
  • Things are not that great in Brazil either Brazil may have Lumias, but so far we have no Surface (Surface 1, 2, 3, 4...) if you want one, you have to go to USA. Last month i saw the first windows tablet selling in Brazil: Lenovo Thinkpad 8.3inch  I got one just like it more than a year ago in USA. We have no Microsoft Band too, our laptops are usually old models, Intel Core M for example is only found in Macbooks. I dont even know how they are selling any Lumias here, because you have no ecosystem to work with. You can find iMacs + Macbooks + iPads + iPhones + iWatch (Expensive but at least you have Apple store selling them) You can find Chromebooks + Android tablets + Android phones + Moto 360 or another android watch And you can find Desktops + old model ultrabooks or cheap laptops + Lumias... OneDrive is around 20% of GoogleDrive speed here making it almost useless. I hope they start to improve their services soon because Lumias will not survive here much longer this way.  
  • This. There have only been a few mid and several low range devices for a while now. Not surprising sales were low.
  •   And in the meantime... consumers bought into iOS or Android. Do you expect people to wait for nonexistent tech from MS? It's a small window and folks don't just go out and buy new phones every quarter. I really don't know who to blame for the failure of Win Mobile other than Microsoft themselves. I think MS truly knows it's a lost cause and is just trying to stave off massive stock decreases and even more negative press by killing their mobile division off slowly. Death by a thousand cuts if you will.
  • Not having any devices to buy is a POOR MARKETING STRATEGY, if I've ever seen one...
    So, our destiny hinges on the 950/XL, and a possible Surface phone?....
    .... I've said it before, and I'll say it again, and again... No matter how great a product is,, it doesn't matter if nobody knows about it... It's a waste of time, and resources...
    Looks as though the deciding factor of whether you will be using, or not be using, a Windows Mobile Phone this time next year is down to if MS pulls their heads out their ass, and finally decides to market these devices properly...
    A potential surface phone could have the most advanced hardware, beautiful design, better features than droid, and even every app known to mankind, but it will never sell a single unit if nobody (the average consumer) knows about it........ Say what you want, believe what you wanna believe, but this is the dead truth about WM10's fate.....
  • Agreed.
  • Well said. I think they will launch an all out campaign when the phones are good enough. Right now the software is"getting there". It would also be a wasted effort to market it in it's current state.
  • Sadly, even if MS markets appropriately, MS will fuck it up with a stupid message such as dancing, babies, or some other nonsense that does nothing to demonstrate the device...
  • iPhones are marketed a ridiculous amount. All Apple products are.
  • And, Apple reaps the benefits.... It works.
  • BS!... Don't make me laugh! Ten times more?... Never..
    It's all about consistency. Those commercials you mentioned ran for only several weeks, and barley had any follow up to them.. They only aired during prime time... Surface marketing has been way more consistent.. On a bigger scale, all day, everyday, all year, everywhere... With the NFL? Huge. That's what it takes... Sounds a bit like Apples marketing, and it works.....
    Obviously, you don't remember those huge Droid marketing campaigns between Verizon, Motorola, and Google.. Huge!.. The same with Apple.. They both started small, but it's marketing that accelerated their growth...
    No, offence, and with all due respect, but what you just wrote is completely backwards...
    Besides... In 2015, and with no apps, MS isn't going to be able to rely on that... MS's biggest chance at making WP relative is to seriously market the he'll out if what they do good... That's what they have never done... Sure, cameras are nice, but is that all Nokiasoft claimed was good about WP8.1 Lumia devices? Yes... That's the entire wrong message.... Samsung & Apple brag about anything, and everything they can,, RELENTLESSLY! That attracts attention.. You can't base your marketing on only one aspect... Bad idea... But, back to your main point... A big fat N.O. WP has never been properly marketed, in the US, and elsewhere, where it really counts.
  • Funny thing is that if it was marketed wider without the goods to show, switchers burned by the inadequancies will unlikely look back unless it comes back with features that substantially blows away the competition (And given the life of WP, it has had a hard enough time keeping pace.)
  • Apple and Samsung advertise the features of their phones. Like something they just created or something never have been done before. Haven't seen much from Microsoft.
  • In Australia, Samsung ads are everywhere (at least where I am). Apple are similarly represented. I don't see much HTC, Huawei, Motorola ads here. They're on the sides buses and bus shelters, train stations, on large posters at phone and electronics retailers and TV. Microsoft ran some Windows 10 commercials about not having to remember passwords for a couple of weeks. Surface had some students dancing on outdoor furniture. There's never any Windows Phone ads on TV or anywhere. They need big posters in stores, they need buses to carry ads, billboards, stuff like that. Put the product on the poster and just have a simple example of how it works better than the others. Run these as a series for a few months rather than a single one-off campaign. Lastly, the apps - yes, they need to get medium developers on board, like Weight Watchers, Australia Post (which did have an app), CUA, IMB, and other banks, Medibank Private, Roads and Maritime Service, etc. and the telcos. Vodafone's app doesn't work and I don't think Optus has one. The MNVO's don't have apps (Woolworths Connect, Boost, Aldi). Provide incentives for these guys. I know it's not a long-term strategy but at the moment, they need to get Windows Mobile 10 in people's minds and they need to be sure the apps people use are available. But, to be honest, I don't know why the big guys won't get on board like Snap Chat and the like. Windows Phone simply works better and the people that have bought them on my recommendation have stuck to them. One guy got a Lumia 920 after I got mine and recently got a work iPhone. He didn't like it and gave it back and work got him a Lumia 635 instead.
  • You're kind of all over the place man. Also confusing as you say his comment is outdated meanwhile he replied to your point about WP8 marketing. Secondly, you can't just discredit the NFL's SP marketing because "not everyone watches the NFL". The NFL has been marketing the Surface Pro line since it came out and still are. They have commercials, sponsor shout outs and have clearly marked Surface Tablets on their desks. That is a long term, active marketing run. Tens (maybe hundreds, i dont know) of millions of people all over the world watch the NFL and the Superbowl is one of the single most watched events, every year. You can't just marginalize that... Ads are always catered to what the channels show or the specific audience. What if I never watched a channel that played that Gwen Steffani commercial you mentioned? What if I only watch sports? Posted via the Note 4/Nexus 7 (2013)/Lumia 1020/Lumia 2520
  • So you're asking if I skipped the exact part of your post I replied to? Hmm. ;). Maybe you missed my point, which goes back a few comments now about when you said WP marketing was so much more present than SP. I haven't seen a WP commercial since those Lumia 1020 ads. I see Surface marketing via the NFL and also Surface commercials all the time, to this day. Posted via the Note 4/Nexus 7 (2013)/Lumia 1020/Lumia 2520
  • Same here. Haven't seen a commercial for Lumia in a while. 95% of the time it's Samsung or Apple.
  • And yet, I still love it, when stupid announcers keeps saying: "Oh, and there he is just sitting and studying with his iPad"...
  • And those ads were working! Windows Phone was growing. Had they only continued doing that (and also eschewed carrier exclusivity), Windows Phone would likely be at 6% and growing now instead of 2.7% and shrinking.
  • ^This! All of this! 100%
  • We can't even compare then to now. The products are totally different. The 9XX series and 1020 were actually phones that people would notice and pay premium prices for. The 520 was an extremely popular low end device. What do we have now? Regurgitated liw end devices offering next to nothing new or unique and zero flagship devices in the last 1-1.5yrs. Marketing won't make up for the fact that their products are either non existent or not really offering anything that people want. Microsoft is going through exactly what BlackBerry went through, as far as their devices go, back in the BBOS5/6/7 days. Everyone hoped BB10 would bring customers back, hardware would be up to date and the OS would be new and refreshing. Now, we all hope the next Flagships will be cutting edge, offer newer features Android and iOS can't offer through W10 integration and will bring interest back. Microsoft is obviously in a much better position than BlackBerry, as a whole. They have $ to burn on WP/W10M until the world ends, but heaven forbid Windows for PC's ever became the #2 or #3 OS for consumer, WP would be in serious hurt. Posted via the Note 4/Nexus 7 (2013)/Lumia 1020/Lumia 2520
  • Perhaps in the US, but I haven't seen a single Windows Phone advert, ever! I've seen iPhone ads and Samsung ads... I've even seen Surface ads, but MS doesn't give a rats arse about promoting their product outside the US
  • Not only that Lumia phones are expensive outside of US and in many cases they are pricier than moto series. And I don't see why people buy Lumia over moto with higher price and low apps. mSFT is totally doomed in wp
  • Why should I market a device segment with less than 3% market? - MS thinking.
  • Maybe no one watches TV anymore? I've seen a fair number of 640 ads, Cortana ads, I see Microsoft product placements all the time in US televsion (most recently on "Ray Donovan.' Where I'm thinking "no way his daughter would really use a Lumia. No Snapchat." ;) ) I'm not sure what people are expecting, Apple marketing? Like those ridiculous watch commercials? (which I can't believe anyone could watch with a straight face) It would help to get carrier marketing in the US, but that's not going to happen.
  • 950XL waiting to take my money.
  • To be honest.... You really don't matter.
    The only way we'd matter is if we all bought 5,000 phones each... Lol
  • We need 5,000 Bill Gates to buy out all the stock.
  • That'll work as well...
  • Why would anyone do that? Out of charity to Microsoft? How stupid would that be? Answer: 100% stupid.
  • Answer: Someone doesn't understand jokes.
  • Waiting for a 950XL too...Oh, yea, I am on Verizon, I want to give Microsoft my money but, they wont take it.... and we wonder why they are losing money...
  • Agree, our company is committed to Lumia phones and we're happy to upgrade almost all new flagships assuming they are worth switching to and realistically we've not had a new flagship since Lumia 1520 which offered more than 930 with the MicroSD card slot being included. In UK most people like to have elegant mobiles and Lumia 950 with the leather cases is started people talking again as it offers everything more or less (despite the apps which should improve in coming months with Windows 10 Mobile and universal apps also porting options for developers) also one needs to note that when the next flagship comes out many that are in the position to do so will pass their handset to friend/family members and so on therefore the numbers will keep growing as it has done for Apple and Samsung handsets. Lets just hope Microsoft starts to build bridge with those who have anti Microsoft attitude including Snapchat, Xero and Google because once few big names come over that's the platform/ecosystem in safe place assuming that they actually update their apps regularly and offer similar features as other platforms.
  • Yup, seems expected. No good devices in a long time. No marketing, nothing. Hope it all changes with the Lumia 950 release.
  • No, you're just too dumb to understand that a 54% drop in already low sales is a DISASTER.
  • 9 million was a problem, but not a disaster. That it shrank by 54% is the disaster. By no means was 9 million great, but it could be seen as progress. And had they put in the effort to deliver flagships and advertising the past two years, it could have grown. Microsoft is completely clueless about succeeding in phones. That was understandable in 2010 when wp7 launched, but today it's just plain unacceptable.
  • WP isn't nothing to Microsoft though. I'm sure they don't see the drop as "nothing". They've repeatedly said their future is in mobile. Their cloud and software service may keep them rolling in $ but they really need their mobile segment to take off. They wouldn't continue to throw money at it if they didn't. Posted via the Note 4/Nexus 7 (2013)/Lumia 1020/Lumia 2520
  • >Microsoft is completely clueless about succeeding in phones. That was understandable in 2010 when wp7 launched, >but today it's just plain unacceptable. Read the history of Microsoft, They have tons of money sure but, they have a history of pushing well designed products and just backign down on it... They have done it over the years many times. I have seen it, I have been using Microsoft products from WIndows 3.1 and as being in IT, I watch the trends very well. This is the start of the end of Windows Phone, they are doing the same thign they have done in the past, they will release a few devices but, with no marketing, it will fail or will not inpress in sales, they they will just drop it...If it does not grow, give it 2-3 years and it will be gone. When you talk about a gobal multi-billion dollar company like Microsoft, Windows Phone could be just a big tax right off...
  • + 950XL He now thinks he is ducking important.
  • They should cancel the 950's and walk away. It's clear they have no plan and no clue how to succeed in mobile. Windows phone is dead.
  • True that... going back on a classic Microsoft trend...
  • Drop the Lumia brand or demote it to low end only. Roll with the Surface brand. Lumia is dead.
  • Agreed
  • You are right! Lets get the phone on the market! Then you can sell them! You can not sell what you do not have!
  • They have like 50 Android phones on every carrier. Windows Phone has one or two, or even none. If Microsoft can't get OEMs to make more phones, it will be around 3% for long time.
  • As far as where they are mobile-wise Microsoft only has themselves to blame. They have ALWAYS treated mobile as the red headed step child BY THEIR ACTIONS. They have never shown by their actions that they 'get it' and that they understand that mobile "matters".  And oh boy does it matter even more so now than ever and still we hear from the CEO of the company just weeks ago, no less, that his focus is on what the next device is. How about being concerned with what really matters to consumers -- the present.            
  • There were PLENTY of phones to buy. Microsoft launched a bunch of Microsoft Lumias. 4xx, 5xx, 6xx series. Maybe not in the US, but then again, the US also NEVER meant anything for WP sales. And spare us the "flagship" talk. Flagship devices were NEVER the bulk of sales for Windows Phone. People simple were interested in Microsoft phones. I've said it for ages, people bought the Nokia brand. No one believed. Now the numbers speak for themselves.   Don't worry, Microsoft will live on quite well without the failed mobile OS that is Windows Phone. Their services on Android (and I assume iOS) are excellent and in the end of the day, that matters more than a specific OS.
  • and none of the released phones were drool worthy. the same boring design with the same old processor in a dozen variants. so yeah they were entirely to blame
  • No budget phone was ever drool worthy. That's why they're budget. And since it was the budget phones that kept WP a's clearly rather irrelevant for the people who bought them that they weren't "drool worthy". People were looking for a cheap phone and they knew Nokia's were reliable even on cheaper models. Remove the brand-trust from the equation and here you have it: 54% less sales. 
  • Yep, Sony will be bankrupted soon. My guess is 2017. Regarding Windows phone: as long as we can keep enjoying Windows on our phones that's a success to me. No matter how someone calls it :)
  • Sony won't be bankrupted, don't worry. Sony Mobile on the other hand...and they now decided to open a plant of their own to produce Xperias instead of having Foxconn build them. And we all know how good of an idea having your own plants is, right? At any rate, not my concern anymore. After the disappointment the Z5 family was I jumped ship to LG lol Will LG also go bankrupt? I *highly* doubt it ;P   As for "enjoying Windows on our phones"...well, you can do that on Android and iOS. I've pretty much maintained Microsoft's entire ecosystem when I moved to Android. Email, cloud,'s all on Android. Even Cortana. You basically have zero reasons to use a Windows Phone apart from liking the way the OS looks. And even that can be somewhat emulated on Android. Microsoft - now more than ever - is about the services more than the OS. So as long as you can have a good Microsoft experience on a phone, they won't care if it runs Android or iOS or Windows Phone.
  • On first sentence, it should be FY16 Q1...  ; )
  • The problem is that their center of attention on mobile phones is the us market, where people think that mobile phones are called wanna be shallow people that think owning and iPhone makes them cool and not owning one makes them nerds and don't even care to compare phones when they buy one because they just want what everyone have... Forget about the US market and win everywhere else in Europe you get lots of people with that set of mind about iPhones but don't seem to bother people now compare to two years back since the iPhone 6 i don't see people put much attention on iPhones not even t the press and see my friends actually looking at other options or saying they just going to keep the iPhone 6 they have until something better comes up... That means iPhone 7 because none wants to change an iPhone that looks exactly like the previous model so Microsoft forget about US and win people over in Europe.
  • Oi, don't forget about other countries like Australia, New Zealand, Canada etc.
  • without proper APP support, they never gonna win  
  • amen, need say anything else
  •   I really don't get why Daniel has such a negative slant on the Lumia situation. Let's be real here...MS just had another WP7 to WP8 transition type period. You have a combination of no new flagships (until a couple of weeks ago), a slimming availability on the old flagships and mid-range devices, and a shift in waiting to go from WP8 to W10M. Seriously...who couldn't have predicted this type of quarter? I suspect we will see a bounce in Q4 Lumia phone sales back up to around 8 million as the new phones come out, assuming availability is there. The 950/950XL have gotten quite a bit of press tied in with the Surface line. That's going to help. The bulk of the sales, however, is going to be where the momentum is; across the Atlantic in Europe, primarily. The US market will grow because, even though these phones are only on AT&T, they can be used on T-Mobile, and MS hasn't had a new flagship available in almost 2 years, so these are fresh and a LOT of 920 owners have been sitting there waiting for something, anything, to move them up. Most didn't want the 1520 due to size, nor the 930 since it wasn't officially available on the network. In my opinion, we are only see a blip (sort of a calm before the storm kind of thing). So let's stop all the doom and gloom. Heck there are a lot of Verizon folks, like myself, with phones like the Icon, who are going to change carriers to get the new phones. I really don't think a negative outlook is totally warranted. The fact they still sold over 8 million Lumias last quarter, with THAT line up, and W10M only a quarter or so away, tells me the same thing. People were simply waiting for the new phones and OS. We'll see if I'm right in 3 months.  
  • He's never like Nokia or the Lumia line unlike most of us on this. It's almost like he's started rallying for the Surface Phone to be the only phone MS makes.
  • I suspect that many of the 920 and 1520 users in the US have already moved on to Android or iOS, largely due to the app gap. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • The 950 series is doa. Look at the competition and see what style of phones people are buying. The looks of the phone is just a important aspect in buying as what os it's running and people here forget this. It's not all about apps because WP has plenty of good apps and you can be productive with it if you want. Flagships have to be released that out do the competition, and not be a rehash of the multitude of early low-end models. The time to strike has passed for Microsoft and they know it, especially when Daniel post a article like this. Microsoft has screwed over their phone customers and the carriers don't want to sell their phones. The only thing that will turn this around (and even this is doubtful) is for Microsoft to release 3 surface phones, high, medium and low just like the other surfaces and be rid of the Nokia influence once and for all. While this won't set well with many it's a reality that is staring everyone in the face. They really don't have any other choice if they want enough people to buy their phones. For the longest time folks downplayed true flagship devices and now look at the situation at hand. Same thing with whoever the hell is in charge of marketing. Fire the idiots working there and get Apples or Samsung's marketing firm. 3 Surface phones, look at the iPhone, Note 5,Moto X....... They either do this or this time next year I am afraid that it will be all over because the fat lady is warming up in the wings . Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • I actually quite like the 950XL (even if boring to look at) however I totally agree with you.  Well said.  They also need to market the hell out of the Surface Phones.  Another thing that astounds me is the lack of a flagship store in the other Alpha ++ City London.
  • Exactly. No flagships for years, and certainly none worth buying as they all lacked microSD. I don't want a low/mid device and I don't want a phablet... so I keep my money in my pocket and keep waiting. 950/950XL are the first glimmer of hope in the entire history of WP - but of course they've priced it incredibly high (AU$1100-1200 which is more than I paid for a SP3) *sigh*
  • If you wanted to buy a Windows Phone ATT or Verizon (640XL and 735) you could only do so on-line, guess what when people walk into a store they want it then! Also, if you are a 830 user and need a case or screen ATT has none in the shops you need to go on-line. The support from the carriers is horrible and I think they are using their leverage to bring MS to their terms and that is the sad part because the employees of those companies are clueless as to the quality of the OS and phones for that matter. The issue that remaind fotr MS is apps and accessories for the phones, they still have not gotten over this hurdle.
  • You're bang on - almost - there were no phones 'worth' buying. Almost everyone already on the platform (mostly techies/geeks/windows users who would be aware of Windows 10 "coming" or complete beginners with no interest/need/desire to upgrade) were aware Windows 10 was "coming soon" and that there were no flagships in the near horizon. The early leaks of the 950/XL "coming soon" further made people sit and wait (just read back on here for 9+ months of comments to this extent) - why buy mutton now when the Lamb is coming soon?! Those who did went low cost as temporary tide-me-overs (6xx/7xx series - as per my 735 when I accidentally damaged my loved 920). You ​could argue that Microsoft shouldn't have allowed these leaks (or 'leaked them intentionally') OR should have rushed out some decent phones... BUT would you want new adopters to take on a half-finished ecosystem, have to go through upgrades, bugs and deal with a poor app choice? Doing that would have only further damaged MS-phone reputation and made it even more of a joke by the tech-press. Their best, and only real, chance of engaging and inspiring new users was to FIRST get a decent platform AND engage developers... therefore, I'd say, the absence of any real phone launches was their best bet... Windows 10 Desktop has had a solid launch, XAML development has been made incredibly easy, incredible recent devices event that has spurned excitement and interest across a range of tech platforms - including largely Android or iOS biased networks - setting a very good platform for a Mobile "relaunch"! (Though, it's a real shame that the 950/XL are rather uninspiring really! Yes, this is a matter of opinion and 'beauty is in the eye...' and all that - but, be serious, they're not going to win any design awards - regardless of the phenomenal specs and incredibly innovative new features that actually see them leapfrog rival phones!) Effectively, they needed to wait for "the perfect storm" (or the right conditions and environment) to stand any chance with Mobile. Unfortunately, in my opinion, I feel November/December is still too premature for this - but, having missed the big launch periods for Android and Apple, I can understand they don't ALSO want to miss the Christmas gadget frenzy. Latest mobile builds are incredible improvements... lets hope the 950 get good reviews as Dan's noted... and fingers crossed they have a real crowd-pleaser up their sleeves, as they did with the Surface Book - a true flagship would give them a good chance (as would the recent app/developer partnership announcements assuming we start seeing some goods).
  • I was thinking the same do they sell when the shelves are bare.  "Most people" buy low to mid, some say? Well iPhone and Galaxy sales, show that a significant number of people buy high end phones, too.  In fact, high-end hype helps the down line products as well.
  • As of today MSFT doesn't even have a release date for both 950's lumias...... they don't show respect nor interest in their few (including me) customer base. At least they could say "Coming in 2016", because october is almost gone and if they had any lumias in production they had a clue on when they could be shipping them..... Shame on MSFT.
  •   Yes, the mainproblem is we are waiting and wating for Windows 10 and new phones. For one year the phones was not intersting - and the never ending talk about new phones push us in waiting position.Microsoft need to finish all this talk and instead make some action. Windows 10 for phones is amazing and the new 950 also, but it´s 6 months too late.  But the future will make it, the market will grow, Wp and new phones will make it.   
  • Great good news.... Hope is near
  • But not good news for mobile.
  • He didn't read the entire article......
  • That's was a sarcastic comment look bad now for windows mobile but just wait and watch
  • You know Windows Phone is in trouble when Daniel, who is usually a glass half full type person, starts posting negative articles. It also makes me think that Joe Belfiore won't be returning to Microsoft after his leave of absence.
  • The way I see it, if Windows 10 Mobile fails, Windows 10 fails. Then the PC ceases to exist. Then it will be a world where everyone only uses mobile OS's. That is a nightmare. You can't create a game or program using iOS/Android. Or create movie special effects. How will creators create if the PC dies?
  • Tell that to the 6 million plus users using Steam daily to play PC gaming...The PC isn't anywhere near death and Windows 10 as a desktop operating system can survive without mobile.
  • I should have elaborated. If Windows 10 Mobile dies, the Windows 10 store dies with it. That will take all the incentive to make 2in1 devices away from the OEMs and Microsoft themselves. That means no more Surface. No more Yoga Pro. The PC will devolve back into a mouse and keyboard only interface. Who will buy the same apps and games on their PC that they can get on their phone if there's no universal connectivity. The end of the Windows 10 store will make the PC old and archaic. Only graphics designers, game developers, and movie makers will buy a PC. Everyone else will move on to mobile.
  • Definitely the last hurrah for windows phone.
  • Relax this is not the last hurray in the end will prevail for sure just need to the release of windows 10 and boom you will see how this growth
  • Just need the release of Windows 8.... Just need the release of Windows 8.1.... Just need the release of Windows 10... and it keeps going and going.....
  • AfterMango......
  • This is how I feel.  I've been championing Windows Phone since my HTC HD7 on T-Mobile back in the day.  I love Windows Phone but whenever we start talking about these hurdles, all I think is Mango. I know it's a semi joke, but it's the truth. After the 950's announcement and after all of this Verizon business, I told myself I was going to sit on my upgrade and just keep my 928 until the wheels fall off. It vibrated off of my dishwasher last night, landed just right, and my screen spider-webbed. Now what do I do? I'm seriously considering either looking into a Galaxy S6 or just saying, "Screw it.  What's a little glass in my fingers?" Because honestly, I can use it like this.  LMAO.
  • I like your enthusiasm...... We pray you're right.
  • People have said this for years now...... Someone may finally be right eventually, but I doubt it's you.
  • Lol...
  • should have elaborated. If Windows 10 Mobile dies, the Windows 10 store dies with it. That will take all the incentive to make 2in1 devices away from the OEMs and Microsoft themselves. That means no more Surface. No more Yoga Pro. The PC will devolve back into a mouse and keyboard only interface. Who will buy the same apps and games on their PC that they can get on their phone if there's no universal connectivity. The end of the Windows 10 store will make the PC old and archaic. Only graphics designers, game developers, and movie makers will buy a PC. Everyone else will move on to mobile.
  • no it aint, Im with metro, the  640 isnt available anymore, niether at  tmobile, I for one been wnating  a windows phone but at my store they never even put one out, Sabatoge is what it was, I  was just there the other day and she said they dont sell it, even though you probally can get it at walmart? Atleast wit  att though they wont push it they will have it for you  to by if you  want it. Though im ok with my phone service im not okay with my phone will not be with tmobile/metro if they dont  get the 950/950xl
  • Remember Windows 1 or 2 ?
  • Last for Lumia. Not the phone software itself.
  • Who's surprised? The fired all the people with passion from Nokia, this is what you get. Funny how now the 950 phones are being seen as they really are, plain and boring and again we're back to Windows 10 saving the day. Nice thought but I'm pretty sure no one believes in the slightest that will help. Its now 5 years since WP launched and it was neglected and ignored by it's own parent company from day one, that it's failed really shouldn't surprise anyone.
  • Maybe but with third party back covers the phones look quite dashing actually
  • Uh you realize the 950 and all are basically Nokia leftovers right?
    Way to contradict yourself.
    So much for Nokia being "passionate", their phones are boring apparently. No wonder they got laid off, right?
    Because that's what your logic speaks right meow.
  • Unless you work for Nokia you have nothing to back up you statement and besides, it goes beyond the phone design. Nokia had developer outreach programs, snazzy ads, remember the colours you cant get any more? Nokia PUSHES the OS and their phones, Microsoft just releases a device then runs off back to their ios and android apps. Huge difference in support.
  • Nokia Lumia felt like it was run more like a smaller company even though they were part of a multi-billion Euro multinational corporation. I wonder if that was one of the reasons why Lumias were much more popular in Europe than in the U.S. Anyway it will be interesting to see if the new flagships affect the Windows Phone market share stats in European countries over the next few quarters.
  • yup these phones were definatly already in the planning stages with Nokia. Now that the Surface team has taken over designing and making the next high end phones you will see the difference between the now 950/XL and the new designs that will be coming next year. They will be cutting edge and pushing the bounderies just as the current surface devices do.
  • Microsoft fans = Always looking at the non-existent tomorrow which will be coming 'soon' ! Don't get me wrong, i love windows phone OS. I started using Lumias because of Nokia and fell in love with it. But MS don't give a F**K about their phones. Then why should we waste our money on it.. If they are doing the long term plans then let's all come back when those stupid plans make WP a huge success. They should work for today and for mobile. Not for Day after tomorrow and 'cloud first'..LOL!
  • Nokia is passionate. These phones are NOT Nokias. No matter where the people came from, only at Nokia can you produce a Nokia phone. Because there's a completely different business environement and corporate spirit. That's what people adhere to at Nokia that made Nokia phones memorable.
  • That's funny considering these seem to be the best "Nokia" phones yet.
  • Spot on. The most disappointing thing with all of this is that it is completely self inflicted. They had an OS that had the potential to be a game changer but failed to market it or invest enough to change the app gap. They purchased arguably one of the best phone hardware companies in Nokia, and then proceeded to lay off most of their employees within short order, and particularly the ones who were passionate about WP, their development evangelists from Nokia. Then they have a 2.x year gap with no flagship, and come out with 2 new phones that hardware wise are 2 years behind the competition. This could have been a very different story. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • How are the 950/XL two years behind the competition?
    Tell me the name of ONE phone that has better specs than them. Just one. All you people like to say how Nokia was so great but one of their worst aspects when it came to Windows Phone was how even their flagships were so weak in specs compared to their Android competitors at the time.
    I am waiting by the way for when you find out the name of one phone with better specs than 950/XL. I will even concede that the Zenfone 2 has 4GB of RAM but that's it. You can't do any better than 950/XL in terms of specs.
  • Stupid people somehow expect these phones to be loaded with hardware that doesn't exist yet.
  • The Nokia WP flagships were weak compared to competitors because they didn't need to bulk up RAM or something to work flawlessly. The OS did the job. But MS just advertised the hardware specs of 950/950XL instead of UI. Now you can't even download a universal app on your W10 PC free that you purchased on your WP8.1. So much for universal apps, store support and live spirit of a company.
  • The HTC A9 already got the brand new Snapdragon 817 CPU (rest of the specs are basically the same like the Lumia 950XL) and only costs $399.
  • Err.. The HTC A9 uses a MSM8952 Snapdragon 617 SOC with quadcore A53 and dual core A57 CPUs. So no, they are not better than 810 but more comparable to the 800/801.
  • HTC is a dead man walking.  At least MS has the $$$ to stay in the mobile game if they so choose, profit or no profit.  As nice as HTC's devices are, I wouldn't got near one for fear of lack of support in the near future.
  • It has a lower end Snapdragon 617. Not 817. It can't even record 4k video. LMAO!!!
  • LOL maybe you missed the last 20 days since the real devices were shown. 950 and 950XL have been received positively by almost everyone, consumers and tech sites alike. And you also missed the part where w10m latest build is fantastic. And you also missed the part where many universal apps are finally coming or in development. I'm not saying that w10m will gain marketshare but if it doesn't it really is not due to 950 and 950XL or w10m, they will be fantastic phones.
  • I think Lumia sales are down right now because people are waiting to get one pre-loaded with Windows 10 Mobile.
  • I also believe that. I kept my Lumia 920 an extra year waiting for a flagship with Windows 10.
  • I'm still rocking the 920. Reserved my 950XL last week. Can't wait.
  • My son and myself also still have our 920s, but will soon have 950s.
  • Me too, I'm enjoying W10M on my 920 but I'll get a 950 XL ASAP. I0m really glad they finaly came out :)
  • Same here with my red 920... Red​920
  • not many people are waiting for anything windows phone, that is reality.  Same people over the years saying people were waitnig to buy a black berry smartphone with physical key, noobdy actually cared.  The 950 wont be a seller. 
  • Shut up I'll buy it and so a lot of other people so even if its the last phone with windows I'll buy it because i come from ios and never want to go back out even worse android every time i use android i hate it
  • Sure, the average consumer is waiting in line to get a device with finished WM10..... Sure.
  • No one cares about the avg consumer
  • Said basically no business ever
  • I'm one of them.
  • I stopped waiting a year ago, and many of my friends who were also fan boys did the same. I doubt that many people outside of users of this site have waited. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Hahaha
  • I agree and I cant wait to get my 950 XL. I preordered mine the day they showed up at the MS store.
  • Been said before.
  • The average consumer is waiting for whatever apple churns out every 6 months
  • Apple has about 17% of the worldwide smartphone market share and do not really sell to the average consumer worldwide - that would be Android!
  • Not me.  I love WP7 and WP8.  I've been testing W10M and I hate it, period.  The ONLY thing that could pull me off of my still-great Lumia 1020 would be a REAL flagship that is so far advanced compared to the competition that there IS no competition.  And the 950 and 950XL don't even come close.  A new device would to have a camera that's obviously and inarguably better than anything else out to make me put up with how much I hate Windows 10.  The also-ran camera on the 950 devices plus the obviously boring design of the devices don't entice me at all.
  • It's not going to get any better releasing phones on one carrier
  • As i have said somewhere in these comments, MS does not really care about the carrier thing anymore, they are targeting the phones from now on at business and enterprise customers and just the diehard that wants a nice high end device. Soon the days will be gone for any low end windows mobile devices. Microsoft will sell the devices unlocked via their store for consumers that want them and make a market within business and enterprise to push and sell the devices there.
  • You're completely wrong bout all that.
  • Yep, he is.... How can one be so dense?
  • This is a direct result of not providing premium phones for cheerleaders of the platform and choosing to focus on the low-end instead.
  • 100 x YEP!
  • Yups that was the rehash of what lumia phone.....!
  • I'm finally ready to admit, the end is near. And it makes me sad....
  • Windows 10 mobile devices are not going away, so relax. All the low end crap and mid range crap will be gone soon though. Microsoft will be focusing on devices that are high end and cater to enterprise and business along with unlocked devices at their stores for consumers that want a high end device.
  • Enterprise is the only thing that could get Microsoft out of this. They better find a way to work it out with Verizon though, so many enterprise Verizon users and you will not find huge corporations switching carriers anytime soon.
  • And yet Microsoft sold 20 million Asha Feature phones, 6 x number of low end Lumias, which are some 10 x the number of high end 'flagship' Lumias. If you give up on Asha and Low end Lumias, you have given up on mobile.
  • Could be.... Now, we'll see if MS finally does what needs to be done.....
    The biggest marketing campaign in the history of the universe... A 1 billion dollar budget..
  • That's how much Samsung spend on marketing their phones every year.
  • I doubt the end is near though. For the 950s to sell I fully expect a halo effect because of the similarities with Windows 10.
  • Microsoft says: One system for all devices. WM10 is not that system: W10 is. Surface phone is the one phone that is going to be x64 and runs on W10. Attach a monitor and mouse and you'll have a real PC.
  • Wish HTC would make a WM10 Device
  • Same. I would love if they made a HTC one and a desire with Windows 10 Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • From what has been said in the media, HTC may be near the end.
  • I love HTC, Hopefully HTC and WP will survive Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • HTC were flying when they were producing Windows Mobile 6.x phones, Diamond, HD, HD2, Touch, Touch Pro, etc...if they're losing the Android war to Samsung and the Chinese manufacturers, I'll happily consider another HTC Windows Mobile device since the HD2 was so good to me :-)
  • This is so true. Samsung was also making phones back in the WM days. Back then, Android was very immature and iPhone was hot. WM was the best alternative. By the time MS reset for Win 7, it was too late. All the OEMs jumped on the now-mature Android platform and never looked back.
  • HTC were working with MS to bring a windows 10 mobile device to market, but with the current situation HTC find themselves in, it may have been put on hold or cancelled.
  • Agreed but I wouldn't make a WM10 phone if I was them....HTC M8 didn't sell worth crap.
  • Many people were holding off on buying windows phones knowing new ones were on the way. However, you can't see these announced phone in their own stores?? I say we wait and see how they do when these phones become a in-person reality.
  • RIP Windows Phone/Mobile.
  • I'm eager to try in one of our local stores here in PH. No annoucement of launch yet.
  • I'm eager to try in one of our local stores here in PHIL. No annoucement of launch yet.
  • I'm eager to try in one of our local stores here in PH. No annoucement of launch yet.
  • Damn, you definitely are eager, lmao.
  • Lol Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • LOL
  • Ha ha
  • Ya pretty interesting that Microsoft stores don't even have their own devices...shows just how not serious Microsoft is with mobil its a sick joke.
  • Whoa.  If you're speaking of the 950 and xl, they've only been announced - not made available yet.  Cool your jets.
  • They do have them in their own stores, at least the 2 I've been two since the announcement, but yeah, there's no sign or any indication that they're there. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Like the public was aware that Microsoft was supposed to announce (and release) new phones at the end of this year... Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • What's going on with Verizon and 950 and 950XL. I am getting the 950 or XL with or without Verizon
  • They won't work on Verizon. Verizon is blocking authorization for the phones on their network.
  • Source?
  • Verizon needs to enable the network for devices.
  • It wouldn't be the first time. Verizon did the same thing with any Nexus 6 that wasn't purchased directly from them even though the whole point of the Nexus is network unlocked and latest Google OS. Verizon has always had a terrible relationship with MS (well at least since the Kin fiasco). Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • lies. it's technically ILLEGAL for verizon to "block" a phone due to government regulation.MS has to pay for certification, and then they can work. MS didn't want to bother paying for certification, that's not verizons fault:
  • Maybe Satya trying to save money for the stock holders.
  • Yes, we are buying 950 or 950XL, with or without Verizon. ATT want our business and is less cost.
  • Let's be honest people, Microsoft is just too late to the party. Even with Windows 10 and more high end Lumia phones, little traction will occur. The iOS/Android ecosystem and support are just too strong for customers and phone carriers to care about Windows Phones. It's sad that they're selling even less than they did a few years ago. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Did everyone forget they're releasing an SDK to convert all those iOS and Android apps to Windows? Between that and universal apps that people will actually have a device for (Windows 10 PC is being installed way faster than 8 ever was), there seems little reason to expect that there won't be a lot of porting soon.
  • But will developers actually bring them over? Doubtful for most, if we're being honest.
  • If porting will be as easy and simple as claims are, there is only a small chance of devs not porting. Unless it's Google.
  • That's what Blackberry fans thought.  There it wasn't even a port, just a repackaging, and yet hardly any developers took them up on it. You still have to test and support it.
  • True, ease isn't enough. I think the hope is that a real port would have superior performance (I wouldn't want to release a bad, laggy version of my app) and the fact that it can run on all the PCs for increased market share will make a difference.
  • We Developers are that interested in money. We like the challenges though. The investors & owners on the other hand... Yeah! Anything extra from the porting buys bigger yacht for the share holders 
  • Did you forget that there are over 100 million devices on Windows 10 already? WP's market share is irrelevant now that the universal apps are actually universal.
  • What universal apps have you had trouble with? My universal apps are working great. Audible for instance finally works very well across all platforms.
  • too many apps use google services. astoria sucks. wm10doa
  • Astoria isn't even out yet, and besides, iOS apps are the ones that matter. Android's app selection is actually kind of lousy compared to iOS. The apps I got an iPad for are on not on Android either. Without seeing how well that works it's way to soon to declare the bridges a failure.
  • Mint never made a windows 10 app. 8.1 "universal" is not the same at all. The actual windows 10 universal apps are working very well. I haven't tried HERE since Maps replaced it as the main nav app, but is that even a win 10 univesal app either?
  • Not sure what your point is about universal apps. Windows 10's API is not the same as 8.1's. 8.1's implementation only shared some of the code and made developers redo a lot of it between versions, unlike 10. So yes, the universal apps are very different now. Look up the SDK.
  • LOL Just change your name to iKev already!
  • Universal apps work on WP10 and Windows 10.   I don't think you get how this work.s 
  • Sure, apps on Windows 10 might move to W10M. But the real question is, why would there be an app for Windows 10 in the first place? What new & hot mainstream app was made for Windows in recent years? That's NOT a browser? Did we already forget how Windows Presentation Foundation / Silverlight apps that debut with Windows Vista gained no traction? A substantial amount of mobile apps don't make sense for a PC/tablet/Xbox. Snapchat? Starbucks? Any other store/loyalty/restaurant related app? Event/conference based apps?
  • Good point about apps that only make sense on a phone. Those will be trickier. But we're already getting better universal apps now with things like Audible, readit, the core MS apps, etc. I'm not sure if that's motivated by the PC install base or not though.
  • Did you forget there are 1.5 billion Windows PCs (slightly higher than Android at recently announced 1.4 billion)? Do you honestly believe any developer should ignore 1.5 billion Windows computers that includes Windows 10 too and just focus on the comparatively tiny 100 million Windows 10 devices or the even tinier Windows Phone users? Especially when the Universal Windows APIs simply suck on PCs. You people need to realize developing crippled Universal apps means ignoring a much much larger market that would include those on Windows 10 too.
  • That's apples and oranges. We're not talking about win32 devs changing to making apps instead, we're talking about the companies who make apps already for iOS and Android bringing their apps to Windows 10. There's no win32 desktop application for instagram, netflix, hulu, twitch, etc., so while it's not really a meaningful comparison, app developers are ignoring 1.5 billion Windows PCs if you really want to look at it that way.
  • "Do you honestly believe any developer should ignore 1.5 billion Windows computers that includes Windows 10" Mobile (iOS, Android) developers already *are* ignoring Windows desktop. 
  • in enterprise/ business Lumias are selling, the consumer side they are not selling. that is why MS has started to change the way they do thing with mobile. gone are the days of cheap devices, gone are the days of carriers having these phones, Microsoft will concentrate on high end business devices going forward and sell the same device via their store for us who want that device. Microsoft dont care about these trying to catch up with ios or android on the consumer side of things. so yes windows mobile is in for a big change going forward but its not going to vanish.
  • Yeah it doesn't look good at all.... Lol. These phones don't look poised to do well. If the OS is stable the reviews will all knock them for the app gap, and dismiss continuum as 'cool but niche'. Honestly I couldn't recommend W10 to anyone right now and that's a problem. I wouldn't even buy a new phone myself unless it was a cheap model. Ugh man.. Balmer WTF.
  • Microsoft needs to get these phones everywhere! Seriously.....the hardware is good! Now people need to get these in their now what? Lumia 950, 950 XL, 550 Win10 mobile Apps?
  • The phone they need to get everywhere is the phone MS actually makes themselves.  Not a leftover from nokia. 
  • they are coming next year with the next major update to windows 10.
  • I don't get this leftover from Nokia business, come on Microsoft needs to own up their faults and shortcomings only then we will see some great commitment and technology, anyway Nokia is already releasing an android tablet,which got great reviews and most of the traction in gain of windows phone sale was during Nokia's period. Also I think Microsoft had enough time to do whatever they wanted with Lumia.
  • 2016 will be an interesting year to compare sales, with Nokia returning with Google Android phones.
  • Yeah, assuming Jolla doesn't release a new phone, and Nokia brings the device to Europe this time, I'll be moving to Android. With the (still) growing smartphone market, I'd expect MS to get back to ~10M sales /Q at some point again, but I doubt they will ever sell more than that, they just moved too slow when entering the market.
  • Jolla already announced they wouldn't be releasing a new phone. They splitted their hardware division and are now focused only on the development of Sailfish OS for other OEMs.   And yes, you should expect to see Nokia smartphones coming to Europe. It's their strongest market after all. It's worth remembering the N1 is a proof of concept. It's a test device to try out the new business model and it apparently went pretty well for just a test.   I don't share your optimism about Microsoft returning to those amounts of sales. You'd need WP10 to survive for that to happen and I somehow doubt that'll happen.
  • Umm.. I really don't think Jolla will survive for long, but then I would be happy if proven wrong. Nokia...Ozo really had me excited even if I know I will never buy a VR camera. Microsoft needs to get their act together, show that they are serious about Windows phone. Come on, Office apps for Android and iOS, while windows phone is stuck with a crippled Office, Skype works better in iOS, where is the Xbox live games support(exclusive)? Why are so many good official apps discontinued?where the hell did you send all the hubs? , and why is WM10 taking so long? No wonder everyone is afraid of buying a windows phone, I
  • All I can say is how about MS stops dooming their own phones in the USA by pulling both bs carrier exclusive moves and poor marketing.
    I want a Lumia 950 XL, but on TMobile... But if that doesn't happen soon im ditching WP
  • Why, so that Tmobile can release it and then drop it in a couple of months without ever having promoted it and actually javing reps discoraging people from buying one? Every time I've purchased a WP from Tmo they have tried to talk me out of it. When I bought my 925 I had to threaten to walk out to get them to sell it to me. I'm glad that MS is selling them unlocked . No carrier garbage to deal with.
  • You're experience sounds like mine every time I walk into an AT&T store asking about Windows Phone.
  • I only go to AT&T in the hopes of hooking up with Lillie Adams.  I have fantasies about her. 
  • Same here. They poke their noses up just when you inquire about their Windows Phone selection. It happened back in Philly. It's happening out here in Phoenix. Their bias is strong for iOS and Android and, truthfully, it's terrible selling techniques.
  • Who cares what T Mobile is saying about the phone if you can't buy the phone for your network then it surely won't sell. If the phone is good enough it will sell itself. Stop blaming the carriers, Microsoft is behind and they have to stop screwing around and reach into those deep pockets if they want mobile to work. They did it with the Xbox and they did it with Windows 10. Their mobile OS is a clown show right now and the only way to make it work now is to take losses to get market share. Pay the carriers to take your phone if you have to. Google did it with Android... 
  • windows 10? windows 10 has slowed DRASTICALLY in uptake. it's not a success yet. win 7 will rule for years to come. 
  • Absolutely correct!!! We have been have a $39 640 sitting around here because tmobile thought they could get away with it as an insurance "replacement" for my 928 that they sold for a hot minute. Yes, I accidentally drove a car over it (gorilla glass isn't completely indestructible - who knew?). My husband chose an HTC one when he was up for a new phone, but I couldn't get over the missing camera hardware button, so I waited and saved and bought an unlocked 830. We are a home of 5 premium phones. 2 kids have gone over to iphones because of apps, but the college kid uses OneNote and wouldn't dream of switching from WP.
  • You want T-mobile to advance you the phone. As long as US customers in general will continue to rely on carrier to subsidise their phone for them the carriers will uphold their stranglehold on the market and do as they please. IMO Microsoft should offer a buy now, pay over 24months achene to satisfy the US customer requirement to buy on credit
  • Agreed. Whine about carrier stranglehold on US market all you want but that's the game and if Microsoft isn't willing to play then they won't exist in mobile in the US...
  • In Finland the consumers would ditch the T-Mobile!
  • I sure don't want to see Windows phone disappear. I hope Microsoft develops their own phone (Surface brand name), and tries one more time. I do fear Windows 10 Mobile may disappear in the next two years.
  • windows 10 mobile is not going anywhere, but it will be changing from a consumer to more business/ enterprise os, which really is not a bad thing, Yes you will have surface branded phones next year and NO you will not have Lumia branded phones next year.
  • That hasn't exactly worked out well for BlackBerry. They went down to 1% market share by catering to enterprise. Now they're releasing an Android device. If it sells, bye-bye BlackBerry 10; if it doesn't sell, bye-bye to any BlackBerry handsets.
  • As a company, Blackberry are not comparable to Microsoft. They are however comparable to Nokia, as their main financial strength is Phone manufacturing. Now Microsoft are very strong on the Enterprise side, Azure, Cloud, Office etc - this puts Microsoft in a significantly stronger financial situation. And the addition of Enterprise friendly phones, like the Surface, may be a success due to the "halo" effect.
  • The majority of enterprise users also want to use apps that have nothing to do with work. In a BYOD environment, the majority of those enterprise users won't pick Windows Phone. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Microsoft has money to keep Windows 10 mobile going for long time. Their vision of Universal apps won't look too good if Windows 10 mobile does not exist.
  • Yeah just like how google is doing with google +. it sucks but they still u cant fully disable that application. Wonder y that app shows 1 billion downloads. No one is less in this industry to force applications to be used and stimulate demand and fuck privacy.
  • Buy a carrier. ;-)
  • "A succesful launch of the Lumia 950 and Lumia 950 XL is crucial for a rebound even if to steady things. " ...they're offering it in the US on a single carrier, and in the MSFT Store (where they don't have subsidies or EIP). Victory is assured! ( :
  • This was pretty funny
  • I am pretty sure at this stage that the 950 and 950 XL will be the last consumer type of phone, Next phones will be developed by the surface teams and sold and pushed to market the same as all other surface devices.
  • The problem is and always will be the app gap. Yes, 10 will change it. Are you ready to bet on it though? This IS the last push for Windows Mobile. Next 12 months will decide everything. If they don't fix the app gap by this time next year, WM will be dead.
  • Windows 10 as far as a consumer mobile os will be changing over the next year, MS needs the mobile side of things, it will be changing though to more of a business/ enterprise device of which they don pretty good with. Dont expect any more market gains on the consumer side of things for windows 10 mobile.
  • Theoretically there is a chance, with the bridges lowering the porting barrier and 6 digit figures on the install base of devices that can run the universal apps. Things could certainly go wrong, but if porting apps works and desktop app usage gets a decent amount of traction, they could have found a good way around the chicken-egg problem. We'll see what happens. The nice thing is that when the ecosystem doesn't depend on mobile's market share, we can stop worrying about it. A single-digit market share worked for Macs; Apple fans enjoyed them despite having less software, and Apple went with it. Windows phones could be like that as long as the PC versions keep devs interested. There's a bit of an app gap still, but it wouldn't be as big and MS would only need to sell enough phones to not lose money, as opposed to needing to take over a huge percentage of the market in order to get dev support. tl;dr: too early to declare success or doom, there's a real (but not guaranteed) chance for things to work now.
  • I found it hard to believe when I was on Windows Phone but the app gap is indeed critical to its failure. Since I moved to Android, it has been night and day. Not only all applications are available on Google Play, but they are also extensively supported and regularly updated. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • But a Lumia 950 release date seems like it will never come!
  • Lets wait after the release of W10 and the holiday season is over.  
  • "Let's wait" is quickly becoming the official motto of Windows Mobile. Apparently, people are tired of waiting.
  • You hit the nail on the head.  I used Windows Phone for the past 4 years, bought the 920 and 1520 they day each came out.  Loved my 1520, saw the 950 and got tired of waiting for new flagship phones, waiting for the app gap to get fixed, waiting for the platform to reach a critical mass.  In the meantime, most Microsoft services have become available on iOS and Android. So I bought an iPhone 6S Plus.  While there are things about WP I miss, I can actually do the things most people can do with their Android or iPhones, like pay with my phone or use better versions (compared to WP) of whatever app is out there.  It's really sad Windows Phobe never took off, and I had fun while it lasted, but I got tired of waiting for the platform to really take off with app developers.  Sorry, but I gave up :(
  • Getting very close to giving up myself. Switched to Verizon to support the Icon and now I get stabbed in the back by Microsoft with the 950 not working with Verizon...That bullshit of Verizon not supporting windows phone blahblah. I don't want to hear it. Write Verizon a check to sell your phones and stop screwing around. The 950 will flop in the US without a Verizon deal...
  • I did the same thing, @jackalneck.
  • Sadly I am more than likely doing the same tomorrow. I'm picking up an iPhone 6s Plus to replace my 3 year old Lumia 920. There's nothing wrong with the Windows Phone OS, the UI is awesome, the live tiles are fun, all the essential features I think are on par with iOS and Android. Unfortunately there's also nothing exciting for me, with regards to the new 950/950 XL phones or even Windows 10 Mobile. When the Lumia 920 came out, it had a new for me OS, a distinctive design and awesome camera. (I dismissed the app situation at that time thinking that it improve over time.) For some reason, I just don't find myself excited to get a 950 XL. I waited for the app situation to improve as well, but looks like it won't be improving anytime soon. The universal apps are coming, but we will have to wait and see how it will affect the app situation. Maybe sometime in the future, I will get back to Windows Phone, but it is a sad goodbye for me when tomorrow comes.
  • Well, 830 was a bummer with fake promises and was surely overpriced. The Indian Market hated that model more than anything. Lets hope the prices in India for 950 & 950xl stay at par with their Dollar digits' value otherwise, Lumia is going down for good.
  • Oh you mean that terrible stop gap phone because Microsoft couldn't release a presentable option after buying Nokia?
  • Can't dump the future
  • I think this is the last Lumia, left over from Nokia. Next year I think they drop a surface phone th same way they announced surface book after letting the UWP apps grow due to Surface.
  • Microsoft had Nokia left overs for two years! Man MSFT sure is not making any progress, fire all those lazy people who just reused Nokia old rejected ideas and made a phone and while you are at it stop trying to blame Nokia for your troubles, you had it coming with all the Android and iOS apps, lacklustre promotions, developers apathy and uninspired phone designs.
  • They need to speed up the Surface phone and bring it ASAP. If the rest of the surface line is any indication, the design will be top of the line. Heck, the internals of the 950 with a surface like design would probably be enough to move units. After 10/6, Surface is finally a name people know and it creates excitement. MSFT should do everything possible to have the phone segment benefit from that name.
  • im pretty sure it will be releasing at the same time as the next major update to windows 10, so probably around springtime 2016.
  • How does a Surface phone change anything? For a PC, it makes sense since an existing Windows user (mainstream customer) will still get all the best in class features (i.e., apps) in a new sleek package with more features (e.g., tablet, pen) in a Surface Pro/Book. For a phone, an iOS or Android (mainstream customer) will find what exactly in a "Surface phone"?
  • The Surface Phone will come with a fancy hinge.
  • Seriously.  Even if it had top-notch innards, like the 950s', and they pulled off the first ever all-metal phone with wireless charging and stamped the Surface name on it, that's not going to cause people to run out to buy it, let alone cause developers to swarm to W10M. I don't get why people think a Surface Phone is going to be the savior, or what they expect it to do that'll be revolutionary.  I'm not saying the Surface team wouldn't design a nice phone, but pragmatically I don't think it's going to make a difference in W10M's big picture.
  • Yeah, I don't get why people think a Surface phone will fare any better in the market than the Lumia line already does, either. Sure, it may be better designed than the upcoming Lumia 950 devices, but platform wise, it will have the same inherent weakness:  no developer interest.
  • Because the typical consumer doesn't think. It is all about perception. If phones would get the same press as the surface devices currently are getting, consumer interest would go up. And that would start pulling developers in. Lumia stands for cheap phones and emerging market. The average consumer never knee about flagship Lumia's or has forgotten about them. You need to make a name to sell stuff.
  • Lots of reviewers are raving about the surface book, saying MS has hit it out of the park with their first 'laptop' - I'm really excited to see what panos does with the phone. I was going to get an iPhone but now I'm thinking I'll see how long I can make this 928 last. If the apps start crossing over and V gets their act together, maybe I'll have a surface phone this time next year.
  • Unless Surface Phone has revolutionary features, it can't overcome the dual killer of ugly live flat tiles + app gap.
  • Lumia is what brought me to Microsoft :(
  • Yes, me too....
  • Dump the Lumia branding and ride on the success of the Surface - bring out a high-end Surface Phone asap or Lumia will be the next Zune.
  • Thats what will be happening next year, Surface brand in Lumia brand gone.
  • Forgive me but I don't see how a change in name is going to work miracles to the sales of the phone. Remember when The Original Surface was released, it was a dud. By the time Surface 3 was released the device shut the critics up. What was changed? definitely it was not the brand.
  • Give 1 away with every Xbox surface. Hell give a phone away with a phone.
  • Not surprising. Imagine Samsung only offered a Galaxy phone every few yrs. Or if 95% of Apple's phones were low to mid tier products. Microsoft has little potential for a comeback but they need to ride on their momentum and success from the Surface branding. I know a Surface phone is still just a rumor at this point but it's their only chance now at seeing some potential sales. But it may end up like they Surface tablet. Slow sales for a few yrs then once the 3rd/4th model hits it's a winner. Microsoft will have to win over more than skeptics now with phones. And that "app gap" is now more important than ever. Sure, lots of great 3rd party alternatives for things but that won't make people switch from their iPhone they've had the last 4 yrs or the person who's been upgrading their Galaxy phone every year. I love where things are heading now for MS but they need to start getting aggressive and capitalize on this momentum.
  • One of my Windows Phone converts replaced their Icon with a S6 Edge plus today, I do have to say, that phone is beautiful and how the software just floats off that curved screen like an infinity pool is pretty awesome.......Microsoft needs wow factor like that to help get the average consumer excited.....that and apps. Ive been with windows phone since 2010 and sadly it's not looking good, any momentum it seemed to have has died
  • I have to agree there's little touches within the Android OS that is very pretty. While I love the minimalistic feel of WP in many ways it's a little too minimalistic. Just something as simple as watching my gf charge her S5 while it's powered off is memorizing.
  • Agree with you both - a friend bought the S6 Edge in gold and it does look really impressive - one thing I really liked about the Nokia models was the curved screen giving that floating effect, and what I expected from the 950's. However, I can not bring myself to go Android - I have looked at the Z5 and Note too, but cannot leave WP, especially as I have an SP3 and Lumia 930, both on W10. Damn it Microsoft, make a stylish and innovative design please so I can stop looking around for something that is aesthetically and functionally pleasing lol
  • Microsoft develops fantastic hardware, fact. They also develop amazing software, fact. But what they don't do is create the 'buzz' & 'appeal' to sell Lumia phones. I have been with Microsoft since the HTC HD 7, bought on the first day that Windows Phone came out, I've gone over to Android & OIS a couple of times over the years and the experience for me just didn't compare to Windows. I think Microsoft needs to get really serious about the marketing and to be fair that is such a difficult task when other OSes dominate the market, I wish consumers would realise just how amazing Win10M is and is going to be, but MSFT needs to do something special to revitalise the Lumia range otherwise it really is game over!
  • How much Windows 10 advertising do you see today? Seriously? Not even 90 days later and I have NOT seen a TV spot specific to Windows 10, nor see pop-ups, nor see any print ads anywhere recently. The SAME thing I saw with Windows Phone ads - first 60 days or so after launch, yeah good. After that? Not much. Very similar to Windows Phone ads when they first came out, when the 1520 came out, when the Icon came out. The first few weeks is great, but that's it. After that, it goes mostly silent. You might see a banner ad online, but that's it. No TV spots, no radio spots, no spotlight products in the weekly mailer ads in the mailbox. Nothing. Crickets. Yes, Win10M has some great features (running it on a Lumia 640 myself), but MS is letting the carriers snuff it out. They need to step up, take control of marketing, and keep it coming. And not be cheap. Stop letting carriers shove their WP device ads to lesser watched shows and let Apple take all the primo spots. Have those weekly mailers be all WP devices every now and then, put 10 second spots on youtube and other ad-sponsored video streaming services. It's just one of my personal pet peeves. Today moves pretty fast so if you aren't out there with some ongoing repetitive visibility, people forget about you. And if you rely solely on word of mouth in today's digital era then the fanboys of competitor products will do you more of a disservice to crush more interest than positive word of mouth can gain. We all know we har negative things 10 times more often than positive. So if you aren't marketing to the masses consistently for a while, you will never get ahead. This is why many great products fail. MS has the ability to change the game and thrust WP to a much larger worldwide marketshare, but it remains to be seen if they actually will. 90 days after launch, lets see how many tv and radio spots we see for W10M devices.
  • I hear Nadella is really keen to cut marketing expenses, so that's why you don't see any ads for Windows 10.
  • What Microsoft need to do is advertise and show off the single most dynamic and unique thing about Windows phone that NOBODY has..... THE FUCKIN LIVE TILES!! Show off how our home screen show live info in real time and not just a static icon! God dammit Microsoft, im rooting for you but YOU JUST DON'T HAVE A MARKETING TEAM THAT'S HALF GOOD
  • Surprisingly, here in Australia (where Microsoft typically never markets anything) MS has been running W10 pre-movie adverts in every single cinema nationwide. Its working too. The number of non-techie friends I've seen with w10 on their laptops now is impressive.
  • HTC HD 7 was my first WP and been WP since....... and not moving to Android/iOS. But I would love to see better designed phones - the 950 looks the same as the $79 dollar phones and lets be honest, design matters, that's why corporations spend $billions on design! W10 on my SP3 and Lumia 930 is a delight and getting better each day :)
  • Amazing that they even sold that many. Would like a breakdown of where/what country they were sold in..
  • This news just makes me want to consider getting an iPhone even more so. Disappointing to say the least.
  • You won't be disappointed if you do. I still have my 1520, but my 6+ is the one that gets the most use, for obvious reasons.
  • While app gap exists it will be like that.
  • They need to do advertising campaigns, get MS stores in more places like the UK and get carriers by their side. Above all make Lumia's that catches the consumers eye.
  • I hope these new phones are a hit. I couldn't be happier with Windows 10 after the last update. It's super smooth and fluid. It like floats on my Nokia Lumia icon. Can't wait for the official release.
  • Yeah, it's so nice I have it on my main device, M8. Really enjoying it now and it's just a preview. I can't wait to buy the 950.
  • Waiting for Surface Phone...
  • That might be a problem. If the 950s don't sell, there might not be a surface phone. After all, the current phones are the ones showing how well W10Mobile can do...
  • This is a HUGE problem. With the looming rumor of a Surface phone, many potential buyers of the 950/XL will hold off, and in turn hurt W10 growth. It's MS fault though. It's not the customers job to carry your platform.
  • There will be a suface phone. The surface division has just not too long ago taken over the development of the mobile side of things too, these will not be consumer oriented devices, they will be full blown enterprise/ business devices and also will be sold unlocked via ms stores to consumers that want that device also. Gone are the days of cheap windows phone devices being flooded onto the market and ms losing money on them. They are all about making a device that will sell and a high price and make a good return. so to put it bluntly windows mobile 10 will be done for the normal consumer soon, no more cheap devices, no more carriers selling devices, MS are not interested in trying to make up market share in the consumer side of the business anymore, they want it to actually turn a profit for them. Hence they will be focusing windows 10 mobile on enterprise and making a name for themselves there.
  • If everyoe does that, there will never be a Surface phone.
  • At this point, it's almost guaranted there won't be a Surface phone;  if all the dedicated fanboys hold off for the next mythical phones, and the new Lumias are an embarrasing flop for Microsoft, it's lights out for the division.   Nadella won't hesitate to shut it down. And the thing is,  Microsoft doesn't need to make some grand announcement that they're getting out of phones. The company can quietly cease further development, stripping the division of resources, and a couple of years from now, folks will look around and wonder what ever happened.
  • What do they expect? If you can't walk into your chosen carrier and see Windows phones on the shelf, then you're going to buy a phone that is. Also, with all the Microsoft services available on iOS and Android, there is no reason to go looking for a Windows Phone on another carrier, or directly from Microsoft. And to top if off, not one carrier in Canada is going to stock (or more importantly advertise) Windows Phones. So unless you are a Windows Phone enthusiast, you will not even know Windows Phones are an option in Canada. I was in a TELUS store looking at their TV offerings, when someone actually came in looking for a new Windows Phone to replace the one she had dropped. She was told that "they don't make Windows Phone anymore". What the....? I told her that's wrong, they are still made, but TELUS is not going to carry them. You have to get them directly from Microsoft now. She bought an Samsung... Microsoft needs to dump every last dime into developing apps, and advertising Windows Phones, or it's all over.
  • Microsoft doesn't have the OS ready to go, so they're not in any position to work on apps. Moreover, it's not within Microsoft's power to close the app gap. 3rd party developers have to do that, but they have little incentive to do that when the potential reach of a WP app is so small.
  • That's why UWP PC + Mobile together.
  • Unfortunately that's not working either. Why would anyone bother with UWP when they could just build web apps that will run on Windows, Mac, ChromeOS, Linux, anything with a browser?
  • Why should 3rd party developers be interested when MS can't make their own 1st party apps killer?
  • Wow.  They actually told her they don't make them anymore?  That's bizarre and stupid. I tweeted Telus to ask if they would carry the 950 or XL and they responded with "no news yet, but stay tuned".  Not sure what that means, but sometimes it takes a while for carriers to make a decision.
  • I thought Mobile Syrup asked all the Canadian carriers and each of team said no. I was hoping for the 950XL on telus to replace my 830 but if not I'll buy unlocked direct from a Microsoft store.
  • Interesting. It's not quite the outright "no" I received from Rogers when I inquired. So that's somewhat promising I guess. I think limiting these phones to people that can afford to buy them outright is only going to reduce that Canadian market share from 0.5% to 0.02%.
  • They won't: it's already been discussed that Microsoft will be *scaling back* the advertising for the Lumia line, and Windows phone in general.   There won't be a giant marketing campaign for the launch, like Nokia did for the initial Lumia 920 devices a few years ago.
  • Really bummed out about this. I've been with WP since the beginning. It has been my one and only smartphone OS and now is the only time I've felt it's looking like a lost cause.
  • Yeah, WP is dead.......just like Bing, Xbox and Surface was.....dont believe the hype.....Lumia will remain until successful.....just like Bing, Xbox and Surface :)
  • Apps is the key to success and it starts with making current apps like Facebook on par with other platforms at least. Otherwise WM/wP be dead.
  • Every time I tell a friend, a family member, or one of my students than I'm a WP enthusiast, I get an apology.  My students, in particular, find it almost laughable as a platform. I'm 99% sure I'm going to pick up a 950XL, but what evidence is there that Microsoft actually has a clear vision for mobile when it's so glaringly obvious that, from a financial standpoint, it seems to be a fairly reasonable option to simply cut their losses?
  • Microsoft is willing to lose money in one branch, if it indirectly supports another branch.  Perhaps it's important enough for Microsoft to be able to offer a complete eco-system, even if one part of that eco-system is a money pit.
  • Nadella, the CEO of Microsoft says something like that. 
  • The future doesn't look so good for Windows Mobile, which is such a shame. I am one of those long-time Windows Phone guys who got tired of waiting and went over to the competition.  I always thought that I would come back when the new Windows 10 phones were released, but there isn't anything compelling enough in the 950/950XL to get me to switch back.  I even find myself visiting Windows Central less and less than I used to.  Sadly, I'm sure there are others who would tell the same story.  I wish I had the same enthusiasm about their phones as I do about every other part of the ecosystem.  It's been a long and disappointing wait for this one-time Windows Phone fanboy.
  • I'm in the same boat everyone likes to hate the HTC One M9 , but I'm loving it. Had they put Windows Phone on this like they did the M8 I would have stayed with Windows, but the lack of a proper flagship on Att since the 1520 or M8 ruined it for me Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Compare the time i got my first windows phone!? Now im spending a little time playing andoid phones.
  • I think this mean not drop of lumia sale but drop of lumia sale amount because very cheap lumia are selling in market.
  • I had the opportunity to get a new phone through insurance and instead of buy a year and a half old flagship, I went Android and will make an assessment on coming back to WM10, or whatever they are calling it now, when the 950xl gets cheaper. I am just burnt out on all the course changes, it's windows windows phone, no mobile again..... It just seems every couple years Microsoft changes the course too much, I'm tired of waiting for "coming soon" when the Soon lasts 5 years Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Your avatar reminded me that HP is launching a Star Wars laptop, and I know this is an article for smartphones, but I don't see Microsoft taking any advantage of Episode 7, IMO they should launch a Lumia 950XL with Star Wars branded, as Samsung did with their Galaxy S6 themed with Iron Man
  • And everyone is suddenly turned into an expert. Chill out People.
  • Yes.
  • I will write hate mail to Google and Apple and all the US carriers every day for the rest of my life if Lumia dies. I'll ask them to kill themselves, and it'll go way further than a letter about a mobile OS should ever go. It'll be disturbingly over the line. So, at least I'm self aware?
  • Well, my honest opinion is that they eventually makes Android devices loaded with Microsoft apps. I can see it coming from a mile away.
  • I'm using Android with Microsoft apps that are integrated nicely, cortana is my default search app and onedrive syncs perfectly. Even using a Microsoft made launcher, Arrow Launcher Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Same here. Went from a 640 to a G3 with the Microsoft Suite of apps, and life is good. The sooner MSFT realizes that WP is destined to end up next to the Zune and the Kin, the sooner they can focus more on delivering more and better iOS and Android apps (you know, the succesful phones).
  • Dream on....the same was said about Bing, Surface and the Xbox.....yet they now generate profit for Microsoft. Lumia will continue until success is we don't have to suffer boring iOS and data stealing Lagdroid.
  • Um, both Bing and Xbox (the console hardware) are actually huge money drains for Microsoft and are market laggards. Microsoft is doing very well in other divisions, which represent the future of the company (Office and cloud services), but Bing, Lumia and Xbox are not part of that.
  • Surface revenue grew 117% to $888 million, driven by Surface Pro 3 and launch of the Surface 3 · Total Xbox revenue grew 27% based on strong growth in consoles, Xbox Live transactions and first party games · Search advertising revenue grew 21% with Bing U.S. market share at 20.3%, up 110 basis points over the prior year At the end of the day everything is UP and although there are only assumptions and rumours (no official MS released figures) on individual hardware. But it seems to be an accepted conclusion that Sony and Microsoft sell their consoles at a loss and make their profits from licencing and sales of games. In effect Xbox therefore makes a profit as a business.
  • Nice, it looks like Microsoft is having profits on all their departments and only mobile is in red numbers Is this bad? Not really. Microsoft announced project Astoria, that will change the relationship with carriers forever since they will start having confidence again on this platform once that is finished. Never carriers will hear again complaints on their users on where is Instagram, Snapchat, Facebook, and any other app that is not supported officially in Windows Mobile today.
  • I can only hope that this is how it turns out .....been waiting on the delivery of these optimistic outlooks for 5 years Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • That is IMO actually more important than the flagships Microsoft launched. Those flagships with limited # of apps is not going to be enough to beat iPhone 6S or Galaxy Note 5 sales. Hopefully Microsoft can sell more Lumia 950/950XL than Nexus 2015 devices, they look horrible, and that chinese brand Huawei really makes ugly phones, I hope next year Nexus picks Samsung again since Samsung hardware is looking really good on every iteration.
  • Astoria will not solve anything. If it were to solve anything, we wouldn't be hearing about major apps leaving at least once a week. But yet, we hear companies backing out every few days, even though they all know about win 10 and Astoria and universal apps idea and bla bla bla.
  • If major apps are leaving is because they're waiting for project Astoria to be launched officially, since the Android apk application will work without any code changes, that will be epic since Software developers don't have to mess up with complex app migration from 1 platform to another, so all those bug fixes, enhancements will only need to be done on the Android version and it will work on Windows Phone too.
  • Everyone needs to relax. Windows phone isn't going anywhere
  • Lol!
  • Yes relax, keep in mind that this is only a dream. Tomorrow when we wakeup everything is different.
  • I have not yet seen anyone with a Lumia 930 or 830 but just low end Lumia devices. I'm the only one with a Lumia 830 at school and people just love the design. Some girl came up to me and said that looks better than the iphone I was like geez really? If Microsoft wanted to they could easily make a beautiful designed phone to catch someone's eye but they can't really put the effort in. :(
  • You sure "that's better than an iPhone" was not a chat up line ;)
  • The 830 is a beauty.i am not surprised she said that
  • When Microsoft launched the Surface lots of folks said it would not take off. It did.  They seem to be saying the same about Continuum, but I think it will fly.  Sure it may take a year or two, the cost of the hard ware will have to come down a bit but in the end I think it will work well.  Ever since I got my first laptop in the '90s I though how cool if all this could be in my phone.  Well phones are now way more powerful than my laptop was back then.  Lets face it for many people a phone already has all the computing power they need.  They only problem is the screen size limits the experiance and simply projecting that to a larger screen does nothing to improve the experiance.  But with apps that scale to the screen size? - I think Microsoft are on to a winner.  I could see that most days I would get home form work and just use my phone, TV and a keyboard like the all in one media keyboard from MS. ( do my e-mails, facebook, news, netflix, etc etc. then do what ever else I want to do with the rest of the evening.  No start up shut down, no rubbish half baked mobile experiance (currently using iOS and Android and while they are both great the experiance is no where near as good as a full PC).  I think continuum is a real game changer people just have to see it in action and eventually it will take off.
  • RIP Lumia :/
  • Not yet, I really hope Satya Nadella keeps puting Windows Mobile on the top of priorities so that Project Astoria can be done ASAP and finally users and carriers are happy with Windows on a phone.
  • I think the comment above yours is more realistic :)
  • Calm down everyone, the sky isn't falling... Yet!... For the first time, both 950's will launch all over the world so that'll equate to some success... it isn't over yet. Unfortunately, USA isn't the best market for lumias, so it'll still suffer here at home.... UNTIL they release a surface phone. When that happens I think we'll finally get support from all carriers in the US because it'll be a name that relates to "success". This isn't gonna stop me from getting TWO 950XL's.... Whenever its available lol. I'm a fan till the fat lady sings.... Hopefully never
  • The Surface phone will become something like the iPhone or Galaxy series in terms of popularity
  • But from the rumored specs of the surface phone, it won't be high end.
  • Believe me, the surface team will not release a surface phone unless its a top of the line product, so those rumors are just that. AND AGAIN EVERYONE, I THINK MICROSOFT NEEDS TO ADVERTISE THEIR BEST FEATURE... LIVE TILES!! ITS UNIQUE, ITS DYNAMIC, AND ITS NOT STATIC LIKE THE OTHER GUYS... I think then, we'll probably get some attention. They just put out phones with no fanfare and I think they should start and go hard with W10M and the 950's with iris scanners.
  • What? A "Surface Phone" will still be a dud if it doesn't have the mainstream first party apps both in terms of presence and feature parity. Windows phone cannot succeed unless it checks every mark:
    - competitive pricing
    - app parity/superiority
    - hardware design
    - branding/marketing/lifestyle
    - OS feature parity/superiority
    - broad compatibility with 3rd party hardware (smart devices, cars, accessories)
    - "X factor" --- the more the better --- why someone that gets all of the above from iPhone/Android should switch. Whatever these are, they can't be gimmicky or niche applications.
  • Unfortunately I live in Mexico (the back yard of USA) and Lumia 950 and 950XL haven't been announced as available on any carrier. I live in a poor country (emerging market) but here lives Carlos Slim, the riches man on planet Earth, he owns America Movil a LATAM cellphone company carrier and he sells iPhone 6S and Samsung Galaxy S6 Edge+ or Galaxy Note 5 but for some reason he does not sell flagship Lumia's on Mexico.
  • I think long term promises also breaks them down.
  • 1. Drop the Lumia name as soon as possible. It is reminding people of a slowly dying brand of phones. 2. Release a Surface Phone...ONLY release a Surface Phone. No low end. It has to have the bells and whistles, no compromises. 3. Microsoft needs to stop acting like they're just going through the motions with phones. If they're so damn deflated by this sector, it isn't giving people the confidence to commit to their product. They have to remember that people have to on average commit two years to a contract when they buy a phone. I don't even know if I get a contract for a 950 that in a years time they wont just give up on it. 4. Market properly, this is an art Microsoft has not wrapped its head around. Again, the one big chance they have to market their phones is to make a Surface Phone. They have a brand name there which people now associate with premium, well made, established, confident, and innovative products. Ride the success of it. If you're unifying the software ecosystem, unify the hardware brand names too. It was clear from the conference in October that they seemed deflated about this product. The presenter was passion about the Surface line, it was almost tangible. None of that passion was there for the phone. It was kind of insulting, being a windows phone user since the HTC HD One.
  • that is what will be happening and happening next year with the release of the next major update to windows 10. Microsoft are very good at hiding all things related to the surface line. they are working on a phone and it will be released next year, it wont be a consumer device though, those are pretty much done with, i think the 950 and 950XL will be the last devices of this nature.
  • To me, Continuum will not be a device seller.  it is a nice feature, but will not result in people buying these devices for that specific feature.  Again, it all comes down to apps.  people cant continue to ask "what apps do you use that is not on windows phone?" or "how many apps do you need"?  Itisnt about volume, it is about quality.  WP do not get the obsure apps, do not get the all ofa  sudden popular apps and the apps they do have that are popular which end up coming much later not probably not on par in terms of quality.  Isn't instagram still in beta?  Universal app this and that, ok great, doesnt mean much until it happens.    Wp platform is sinking ship, i am not sure what can help it.  We know a nice camera a good design will not, apps will, it is that simple.  You get the apps on here, then it becomes about the OS itself and its ecosystem and that is where MS wouldn have an advantage over android.  Ios will continue to flourish.  Lumia branding needs to die, a surface or a new phone branding needs to be the next flagship and the 950s are hold overs from nokia, i am not speaking about thos.  A legit MS win10 mobile device needs to come out with a legitimate library of apps would be the only way to succeed.    FYI, i received an email that MINT has discontinued WP support.  that is the story of WP life. 
  • What is mint?
  • Financial "app" (light weight cloud application, not really local software) that didn't try very hard to prove it's value. I was always hoping for the ability to sync locally with the Microsoft Money software and many other financial institutions via the internet, but no.
  • I'm surprised, I was expecting worse numbers than this.
    Microsoft is in a transitional phase, they have been working on W10m for quite some time now & I think after the Denim cluster**** (at&t) they realized anything they release would be dead in the water & "Windows 10 Ready" would only hurt W10 Reputation (I.e. Carrier decides not to release the update) so they decided to bite the bullet on this one & take the hit
  • Exactly.
  • I don't think they will drop windows mobile. MS wants the complete package. Sorry, we have a solution for everything except mobile.
  • I think yall trippin there are logical and simple reasons as to why theres a fall off in windows phone sells, 1. lumia 950/xl was just announced  but is not available yet. 2. windows 10 ain't ready yet. Fix those 2 things and were back on track. Even if it at only one carrier att it still wont stop growth as it will be sold unlocked at Microsoft stores and others.  All the past phone had something that would hold them back, whether lacking a front cam, or being to big, or not having a removable battery and expandable memory. MS has hit just  about everything be it safely but has done it, the only real complaint  was looks, though I did agree even that  has been solved with removable backs, might actually be the coolest phone out. Beside who knows what ms is up to there might be announcement regarding apps etc that coming, take a deep breath and exhale slowly, (unless your a hater, then keep hold your breath till I tell you to stop)
  • And here i am thinking of buying an iphone because ive been waiting 3 years with my 920 for windows phone to grow. No 950 carriers in canada... Oh well
  • just go buy it unlocked from ms store.
  • The 950 and 950XL will do nothing for the US market. The only hope is outside of the US. I don't think Microsoft will give up on mobile, because it's part of the core of Windows 10. More than likely, as Microsoft previously stated, mobile will be for businesses (that will write their own apps or business oriented apps like Uber) and enthusiasts (those that will use Windows Mobile regardless of app availability). With the poor showing of Microsoft mobile lately, developers have little reason to shift gears and do anything at all for Windows 10. Universal apps are a great idea, but without a revamped mobile strategy the whole concept falls on its face. And with Microsoft keeping silent on 950 and 950XL availability in the US I just don't see momentum picking up anytime soon. That said, the market outside the US is multiples larger, so there is great hope there. But I live in the US, so banking apps from Europe don't do me much good. Get it together Microsoft.
  • MS are not expecting anything huge to happen with these 2 phones, that is pretty much written in stone now. They will not be catering to the consumer market for much longer. That does not mean windows mobile is dead, it just means it is changing and ms are changing what devices they make and how they are sold. Gone are carriers, Gone are cheap devives, Welcome Surface Phone or Surface Mobile or whatever catchy name they give it, full blown high end enterprise device. That is the market MS will be targeting these devices at, as a consumer you will be able to buy the device unlocked via MS.
  • Today i went at a customer's place, an employee asked me to set up his new 640xl :-) What a surprise :)
  • Everybody has said it: how do you expect to increase the sale numbers when you have nothing to sell?
  • Call it rw-invented and stick the word "Pro" on the end :-/
  • 5.8 M happy customers
  • Daniel, where did you come up with the 5.8 million phones? Did MS release that figure? I've searched and can't find any hard numbers for phone sales.  If you were using the 54% decline to figure that, it's most likely considerably off the mark. We know that almost all of the phones being sold now are low budget phones. That being the case, it would lead to a large decline in revenues, even if the number of phones sold was close to (or maybe more than)previous sales figures.
  • It was in the investor call. 54% is just the decline in phone revenue, not sales of phones.
  • What was the profit? $ or ($)?
  • Don't think that figure will be publically revealed - sure you will get internet rumours, but nothing official.
  • I dont think the 950 and 950XL will do much. Continuum will mean more when it's coupled with an Intel CPU.
  • Intel or Arm it doesn't matter. The Universal Apps is what phones run off of. The Universal Apps run 40 percent quicker and are tailored to the device. Why use win32 when Universal run so much quicker? Tools are being given to devs and MS has really reached out to devs. 110 million plus Windows 10 users currently and growing.   MS has 1.5 billion Windows users curently. So once most of the user base switches over and new phones are released the devs know where the money is.  
  • Universal apps run quicker than WinRT or Silverlight apps, but not quicker than Win32 apps. Also there are millions of Win32 apps out there and only a handful of Universal apps. Not that I expect Continuum to ever directly support Win32.
  • What Win32 apps are so valuable to the mainstream user? Browser + Office is pretty much everything of relevance today. The professional stuff (Adobe, et al) will be next to useless on such a low powered device.
  • Edge and Office use Univeral already.  Why support old software that doesn't harness new hardware? I swear tech people are the most adverse to change. It's so weird.
  • An easy example would be games.
  • Its not about the phones and apps. Its about the UI and some minor tweaks in it. Grid instead of list app drawer, real time notifications, dock icons (its like start menu in windows desktops), icons to be presented with their original design not by sterile color scheme....
  • It's simple for me as I feel I've paid my dues buying at least five unlocked WP flagships to use on T-Mobile with the Lumia 1020 bring the last and the Lumia 920 being the only one I still own. Unless I land a job paying more money,I will stick with a carrier first, mobile second strategy as it pertains to obtaining phones. Currently owning the Xperia Z3, I plan on getting a flagship Windows Phone only if T-Mobile carries it. If not I will continue on with Android until the iPhone comes with a 32gb base model,a flagship WP does become available, or I can afford to comfortably buy my W10M phone of choice unlocked.
  • Start saving 10 to 5 dollars etc a week. Perfectly doable.
  • Well the writing seems to be on the wall. 1. First, the lack luster presentation of the Lumia 950, 950XL. Panos was reaching and you can tell he just wanted to get through with the presentation to move on to more important products, while trying to sound excited about the product. But there didn't seem to be a genuine ethusiasm or great expectation for the phones. 2. AT&T Exclusive or non-exclusive deal for the new phones and T-mobile stating that they were interested in the phones but Microsoft seem to want to keep the amount of phones limited. 3. Joe Belfiore's extended leave. 4. Companies dropping app support left and right and it doesn't appear that Microsoft is doing much to stop it or convince us that they are working on app gains. 5. Microsoft's mobile resources are more concentrated and concerned with Android and IOS than its own platform.
  • Well Windows Phone will be either 0-16 Detroit Lions bad or this is about to be the greatest comeback story of all time. Seriously, any positive progress and growth would pretty much be a miracle at this point.
  • My poor Motor City kitties......
  • haha, you can't sell an outdated OS that's behind even WebOS in core functionality cause I bet if the phone had Android they would sell. I don't think they will make any strides with the new OS. Still limited, still behind and don't give me that it's not finished crap.
  • Only sold 6.8 million phones in a quarter?
    How many xboxes were sold?
    HTC phones?
    Did ms make a profit?
    Perspective. Reminds me of the old Nintendo is doomed articles that pop up eBay year even though they sell, have fans, and most every quarter turn a profit.
  • "The previous quarter's numbers had Microsoft at 8.4 million Lumias sold, which was up for at time from the same period in 2014. Going back even earlier to holiday 2014 and Microsoft peaked at 10.5 million Lumias." There's your perspective. The ship is sinking fast, and the MSFT faithful are reaching into the Blackberry "It's not over yet" playbook to avoid facing reality.
  • 54% drop in revenue for phone is not trivial in one-quarter. Microsoft sold 5.8 million Lumias in three months. Apple sold 13 million iphones in 3 days.
  • The sad part is I know several people who are interested in the platform but are worried about their google services or the big name apps.    As for UWP, you don't think Xbox, IoT and Hololens are a good enough reason to keep it around?
  • The best selling car is about 500,000 a year, Camry usually (not the 1 mil + of all the f series trucks).
    Seems simple compare phones to phones but how long did apple sit at 5% PC marketshare? How many quarters did that fluctuate? Why are we now pandering to the doomsayers?
    MS fucked up because they wanted to be everything but unlike Android put too many restrictions on hardware too soon, and then reset shit. Apple stayed with one demographic the w time, only a few c models... Anyway... They'll flop or fly out stay the same. I won't die either way.
  • " 54% drop in revenue for phone is not trivial in one-quarter. Microsoft sold 5.8 million Lumias in three months. Apple sold 13 million iphones in 3 days." And Android sells 3 million (average) every day.
  • Windows OS experience on a cell phone is 10x better than anything Google or Apple is offering.  Androids get slower with every update and Apple? Haha, you wanna talk about outdated?  They haven't changed much of anything since Jobs died.
  • It gets slower also on Windows phone sometimes. I mean loading snd resuming issue.
  • its not finished yet...
  • Exactly!
  • There is no way they would give up on Mobile.  If anything they release Windows Mobile with an Android AOSP compliant kernel,  that also happens to support UWP and Microsoft services.  And then *shudder* get a Google Services license for the apps that are using Google services.  I dont see anything in the Google compliant certification documents that would forbid Microsoft from doing this,  but i think it would lead to a legal battle if Google tried to throw a wrench into Microsoft's plan,  which Google would lose because they have enough mobile marketshare to not be able to do it. That way you can run every single Android app without modification,  and every single UWP app.  But Microsoft might have a longer term plan,  one they are willing to fight for as long as it takes,  without "giving in" and taking the easy route.    
  • Since Project Astoria is coming soon, that's not needed anymore, all Android apps will run smoothly on Windows Phone 10, so no Microsoft does not need to sell their soul to Google to make OEMs, Carriers and Users happy with all their favorite apps on this platform. And in case you want any Google app running on his platform it may be sideloaded since I don't think Google publishes their APK on Windows mobile appstore.
  • This isn't surprising. Or necessarily a problem. First, Surface's success and popularity *will* have a nice halo effect. Second, MS had to have been well aware of the effect ​not releasing phones would have on sales (i.e. you don't get any). Third, who exactly is doing WELL in mobile right now? Apple. And...uhh...Samsung, sort of? Ish? Everyone else struggles to breathe. MS, however, isn't HTC or LG or Sony or any other hardware manufacturer that lives and dies (mostly dies) by its hardware sales. MS is a cloud company now that has the ability to make hardware. I'm not ready to write off Windows 10 Mobile--who would do that before the first devices are even released? Given that mobile sucks unless you are Apple, I don't think it's true that MS is too late to the party. The party only has one really happy player right now. Momentum can swing any time and MS has the resources to keep trying until they get it right (see, e.g. Surface Pro 3). Have faith! Or don't...MS won't tank their Mobile line unless they are willing to give up on the UWP.    
  • All very valid points. Thank you for looking over the tall bushes and realizing there's more going on out there.
  • All I know, is my matte white 640XL has a certain "sex appeal" because there isn't a day that passes where someone is asking what my phone is. I've even had a few folks approach and ask if it's a 640XL! So there is a growing interest in Windows devices, which hopefully the 950 series will finally woo some folks over.
  • Unless you have your phone on display with a thousand people walking past it everyday, there's no way people are asking you about it.  The 640 is about as plain as a phone can get and cheap looking to boot.  You can imagine there's a growing interest in Windows devices, but the numbers don't lie.
  • Microsoft has their selves to blame when you cancelled a highly anticipated phone like the "McLaren" with 3d touch there is nothing to fill that flagship gap, see Apple took that idea and ran with it and make millions and now I heard the 950s are going to be an exclusive and not sold unlocked come on Microsoft I have an unlocked Samsung ativ se and I don't it's going to get windows 10
  • I agree with Dan that, if the Lumia 950 and 950XL devices either sell poorly and are perceived badly, or not all, in the market and the press, there may likely not *be* a Surface phone.
    The McLaren and the alleged Surface mini experience should be indicative that Microsoft won't hesitate to cancel a product if it's perceived to be going South.
    And the current trajectory is definitely not good....
  • Microsoft are putting themselves in the position to cater more to a business and enterprise market with Win 10 mobile, they will not continue with the cheapo crap for much longer as Nokia did for many years. Their strategy is to release higher end models that will cater more for poeple in Business and people that want a $800 Windows device to compliment the rest of their windows 10 devices. Thats it, dont expect them to grow too uch in the consumer market anymore. Windows Mobile will be a niche market to just cater to those in business and certain consumers that want a nice high end windows mobile device.
  • Satya even said this during one of his recent speeches.
  • Too many low end phones and the 830 was a disaster with that 500 dollar price tag at launch. Finally high end Lumia's are announce but no launch date because the os is not ready, it's been too long please hurry the hell up.
  • Honestly I think the app bridges from iOS/Android are the only hope.  I just don't see the 950s doing well past the diehard fans.  Your standard user buys an iPhone or Android because that's all they know, and they don't have to worry about their apps. I'm sure most on this site agree that WP is a good OS. It looks good and is distinct from iOS/Android.  But what's the key competitive advantage over iOS or Android?  Cortana is cool but there's Siri and Google Now.  Live tiles look awesome, but there isn't one for Snapchat.   Continuum has potential especially in emerging markets but I still think it's a feature that maybe 20% of all smartphone users would use frequently.  Integration with Windows 10 could help also, since desktop OS is still so dominant. But the full features of this are still in development. The only other thing I can see that blows people away is the possible Surface phone which rumors here and elsewhere say will be Intel based and run win32 apps when hooked up via Continuum.  This is an advantage that nobody else could possibly have.   But I think it all boils down to getting the apps, combined with Win10 features, plus key Windows only features such as running win32 apps.
  • It's hard to say they are losing with mobile when it hardly seems they are trying.   Some say they don't care about mobile.  I don't subscribe to that idea.  Maybe they DO care but are just being beat badly and out manuevered.  In every fight there has to be a winner and a loser.  Life is a usually a zero sum game.  Maybe MSFT is the loser in this arena.   One thing is for sure.  They won't keep losing at it forever.  Shareholders won't let them.   They will take their best shot over this next year (maybe two).   If they have no success and are losing money, they will need to think about playing ball with the big guys.  In a way, they all ready are.  Developing software for IOS and Android is called "hedging your bets"  
  • Whatever, MS experts probably already seen this coming, hence the change in their device strategy. I don't know, but this article won't get me down, worried nor cause me to buy an iPhone or Android. I'm still 100% buying the Lumia 950 next month through AT&T. Who knows what will happen, but Im still optimistic Microsoft is going to keep going with Windows Mobile. Yeah, technically Windows phone has been around since 2010, but after using the last preview build on my main device I see it as they only just begun.
  • I am sure the Mastermind has it all figured out. After all, MS is ahead of the curve on mobile, we are told.  ;) RIP Lumia? Nadella needs to finally come out STRONG and say W10M and Lumias are here to stay, and put his pocketbook where his mouth is this time, instead of only cutting at the knees all the time. Market the hell out of it. Be willing to to eat losses for real strategic long term gain. Do not alienate carriers when you most need them. Do not abandon markets when you most need them. :)
  • Nadella already did it. He said even of noone will produce windows phones, MS will do is themselves. WM is here to stay. That is enought.
  • Sorry, takes a lot more than that. Like I sai, he needs to market them, be willing to take futher losses, not alianate major carriers etc. Hope he will do all that but not yet convinced he will.
  • They have chosen the other way - to not be afraid to alienate carriers with skype deeper integration and not providing them with exclusive phone models they demand but then don't actually sell. I like this strategy better, it is more agressive.    
  • I don't think there is any direct evidence that this (especially the Skype part) is why they have stepped away from some carriers. I am not saying they need to pander to all of them, but I think they should try to get to most of them. And obviously I am not only talking about the US here.
  • You don't khow big is the pain in carriers asess produced by Skype. In 2013 they were losing ​100$ millions a day form its operation, now even more. They didn't stepp away, it is a wrong impression.
  • Well, first of all, Skype has been, is and will be available on all OS platforms already and carriers are fine with that by now - a bit more integration into the W10M probably doesn't make much of a qualitative difference. Second, the much bigger revenue hog is probably Whatsapp and other such services. Third, like Elop used to say, MS could also turn it into a selling point, sharing some of the action with the carrier (e.g. again, against the likes of Whatsapp and FB messenger). Btw, where did you get that $100 millions a day figure? Assuming hundredS implies it was at least $200m/day, that would mean $73 BILLION a year.. really?
  • Now what? Easy, launch and release a Surface Phone asap.
  • The mythical Surface phone.. while it should of course help, I am yet to be convinced how it would magically turn fortunes around. Smartphone business is not the same as the PCs/tablets business.
  • It's a Windows phone thing for a while now, among the really gone-native fanboys: when your current line up seems lackluster, place your bets on something that's over the hill and yet to arrive, hence a rumoured non-existant Surface phone. It's more of the same 'soon' nonsense.
  • I hope that Microsoft has a plan after 950s (surface phone maybe). It's just interesting that the most major carriers won't have the new phones. But as far as I know, that's kinda house it has been in the past. Especially with flagships.
  • I hope that Microsoft has a plan after 950s (surface phone maybe). It's just interesting that the most major carriers won't have the new phones. But as far as I know, that's kinda how it has been in the past. Especially with flagships.
  • I don't see them dropping moble at all cause there's no point to.Gabe said its the same code as desktop. Once feature parity is there and the bugs squashed (next couple months); from a dev standpoint any new features will be easily applied to both. Now what I can see them doing it's making a badass phone and getting people to come to them like the surface.
  • No hardware can be badass without apps. The power of surface tablets is in software. Noone wanted ARM Surface 1 and 2 that lacked apps. MS knows it and there will be no Surface Phone before the end of 2016, when bridges will be functional and there will be a volume of universal apps, maybe even later. Don't know how Daniel don't understand it. But it is good that MS now understands it and have a clear vision for 2016-2017.
  • Thanks Daniel. That's just what we needed. More doom and gloom.
  • I refuse to be so pessimistic. Windows Phone faithful have been waiting for new devices for over a year. Let's see what the next two quarters bring.
  • This is what you get when you don't offer good phones on every carrier. The 950/XL could be pretty successful, but it won't since it's only going to be offered by AT&T and Microsoft.
  • This pains me. It really does. I've been using Microsoft mobile OS's since the HtC Dash to the Dash Pro, Touch Pro 2, HD2, HTC Radar4G, to finally the Lumia 925. You get the idea., and honestly, I'm tired. It really started with the removal of the Chase Banking app. That was a huge blow to me and the way I use my phone. Not w with mint being gone, my last straw will be waze. It already doesn't get updated. If Waze leaves then I will have to leave Windows Phone. Not because I want to but because I'll have to. Windows Phones plain and simple is juat better than Android and iOS. With the lack of specific apps that is need it is force ng my hand. The new Somy Xperia Z5 compact is really appealing to me with the best camera out there. sadly we are living in a world that i'll have to choose a phone becaise i havento rather tham becaise i want to.
  • Look again next quarter after the release of the 950XL. There is always some nitwit writing articles like this that just doesn't get it! Phone sales cannot increase if everyone is waiting on the new phones to be released.
  • The 950XL is being sold (at least in the US) in exactly *one* place; Microsoft Stores. Sure, it'll sell well to the "I only buy unbranded" minority, but that's it. No one else will want to give up the convenience of having a phone already tied to thier carrier, and even fewer will be willing to drop close to $700 for it.
  • Exactly. Microsoft has no base to begin with.  How do they think they are going to get people to buy the 950 when it runs around the same price as an iPhone or top end Android?  The general public wants apps and stable browsing.  Windows Phone offers neither.  Such a shame.
  • "There is always some nitwit writing articles like this that just doesn't get it! "
    I've been writing on Windows Mobile since 2007. I know a thing or two when I see it in this biz.
  • Everybody fails sometimes in their subjective perceptions.
  • If MS has no mobile OS strategy then I'm done with Windows. I would go to Android and stop buying Windows PCs. I want one OS across my devices, not buying the same apps repeatedly on 3 different platforms. I want a consistent cloud synced experience across my devices.
  • Why would you stop buying Windows PCs?  You can buy an Android and still have One Drive work on a Windows PC and surface.  And if you were in it for apps, you would have left Windows Phone a long time ago, so...
  • This is why my next phone isn't going to be Windows. My L1520 is going to be my last WP and I'll just install and use WP10 on it until it breaks.
  • I wish I have the luxury of that decision but sadly win10 mobile just runs too slowly and laggy on my L920, so I desperately need this upgrade to 950Xl
  • They absolutely HAVE to release a Surface phone. And it needs to be premium and high-end. A Surface Phone would sell better than high-end lumias because Surface is already known for its premium quality. Lumias are losing their appeal quickly.
  • This is probably true, but I cant wait any longer for them to release the Surface Phone, I will have to get the lumia 950XL and if the Surface phone does come out I'll have to sell it I guess
  • Surface phone will be like Surface 1 or 2 on ARM that nobody wanted because lack of apps. MS know it. They surely wont release it soon. They even postponed Surface Mini for that reason.  
  • The writing is on the wall. The upside is that we all know that a Microsoft phone with android on it will sell a TON. I see on the android forums everybody saying "if the new phones came with android I would buy them in a heart beat."
  • Microsoft's positions is far better than Apple's was back in the 90s, I am sure Microsoft can turn this around if they want to.  To be honist I think they need to if they want to stay in the OS business otherwise they will eventually be displaced by a different unified OS.
  • Now every developer pulls their apps from the store.
  • Seeing that no Canadian carriers carry Lumias anymore, I'm not surprised. I can't get a replacement for my current phone unless I buy directly from Microsoft.
  • You Canadians are like Americans, only nicer, some speak French.
  • Ok.....thanks? Anyways I agree it's pretty upsetting that none of them will carry the new phones but I'm going to give MS a shot with this long-awaited WP10 flagship
  • I'm definitely not going doom and gloom on this. Microsoft already indicated that they are tightening their focus to fewer device categories. I doubt that they didn't fully expect these numbers given their change in focus. They've already been attacking the low end. The 950 & 950XL are just the beginning for enthusiast devices and the last remnants of the Nokia design language. With the Surface team now involved I expect to see some devices in 2016 that can really drive excitement, especially if there is a Surface phone.
  • We absolutely need the Surface Phone for Xmas.... Panos make the miracle !!!!
  • Sure, Xmas 2016 should be possible.
  • Sad but true.....hope Windows 10 mobile will survive
  • Lets keep in mind that Windows PC sales are also crashing and burning. Microsoft should be viewing any sales whether it is tablet, phone, 2-in-1, laptop, all-in-one as Windows devices. The platform is the app store and every device sold expands that platform. If they stopped selling phones they hurt the app store for all Windows devices.
  • Without a mobile strategy, the whole Windows 10 ecosystem is in danger (the business side too, of course) :S
    I hope Microsoft will understand they have to engage indie developers more, and change all marketing people the have now....
  • Keep in mind though that in today's time more and more people are building or having PC machines being built for them. These numbers aren't counted. But somehow they should be worked into the figures. A lot of people are tired of the junk these big companies are providing. And also not every PC needs upgraded every 1,2,3 years. Esp nowadays when a decent machine from back then still pumps with the new machines in today's time. So PC sales is not a gloom number.
  • 1) PC sales are not crashing anywhere near 54% annually 2) smartphone market is, albeit at a slower rate, growing.
  • Why is everyone so negative. These are just sales figures for one quarter. Hope isn't up for win10m. Microsoft has a vision for the uwp and it isn't just gonna drop that. Despite having to fire a few people, microsoft still has lots of money, so it will keep supporting win10m at least for another few years, and although it has been said many times before about wp8 an wp8.1, with win10m I truly believe it's gonna change for the better.
  • Why would anyone expect sales to increase she it's been more than A YEAR since MS released a high-end phone? If anything, I would expect there's as bit of pent up demand. We'll know for sure when next quarter's results are released...
  • Why is everyone so negative?....well, perhaps it's because although we love Windows Phone- we have waited too long for a true flagship device and continue to lose key apps. It's depressing because we really want to stay on board - but we seem to lose ground every day.  I made the decision a few months ago to resist upgrading my 920 until the new WP10 phones are actually released - but I am finding less and less reason to not switch to iphone 6s - at least until Microsoft comes up with a compelling reasons to come back to their phones.  I am a patient man - but waiting any longer to upgrade doesn't make any sense in such a quickly changing industry.
  • They need to release the new phones asap, and not only in USA but worldwide. I'm sure that's not gonna happen. Is sad, very, very sad, but this could be the beginning of the end for Microsoft mobile.
  • Frankly I'm done with VZ. I'm buying my next Windows Phone unlocked and direct from the Microsoft store and switching to a carrier in my coverage with a GSM network. I hope everyone does this.
  • I saw an ATT commercial on tv tonight saying they're offering $300 credit to people who switch carriers. Check it out!
  • After watching the 950/XL presentation by MS I'm estatic.  MS dumped its failed phone division and revamped itself.  The changing of Microsoft on it phones is a great first step.  It's new leader gets it and has the energy for the rebirth. Doom and gloom?  Before the 950/XL I would agree, but now no way.  MS products are years ahead of the competition. The only thing I hope is that MS can get big chain stores like Walmart/Target/Etc with big displays. Carrier contract phones are loosing huge marketshare and will continue to in the USA. Big Box, big online retailers and its own internal advertising is where MS has the best chances.  Not having a carier push a phone isn't as big of deal as it used to be.   
  • I don't understand what's the big deal about WP being the most popular phone. I don't mind. Actually I feel proud of being different to most of my friends who have Androids and IPhone. I'm not part of the crowd. The only thing that I care about it's Microsoft building new phones and keep supporting them. I've been happy with WP 5 years now and my next phone will be a WP as long they are on the market.
  • I think people underestimate the potential numbers of people who are simply sick of the familiar iPhone after 6 or 7 years. I was one of those people about a year ago and I chose WP over the maddening world of Android. I seriously believe that a 5-10% market share increase is feasible for the windows mobile platform is possible if they develop and advertise it correctly. It's not that far off.
  • Been using an iPhone for 5 years now... you are right, I am bored stiff of iOS.  It is the most dull OS ever. I prefer my Android tablet (although it is not so stable as iOS) but far prefer my Pa's windows phone and windows tablet!
  • I agree being different is nice but you still need important apps with mint being pulled from the store likely some big name app will follow
  • Haha! At this point I don't even know what tech media means by "windows phone is dead" anymore. Because for something to die, it has to take off first and it never really did take off. So yes, if by dead they mean that not most people/developers/OEMs are not interested in it then that's right, it's dead. It was dead the minute it was born. But if they mean that Microsoft is going to kill it I don't really get the point. I mean will they stop developing the platform that's supposed to run on less than 8" of devices. Will they kill its developer platform? All these bridges that they have been working on? I mean Microsoft got to great lengths to unify its operating system and its developer platform for all screen sizes. The Universal Platform. 7-8 years and ongoing in development. Billions of dollar spent. I think if they were gonna kill it, they would have done a long time ago. They are too much in for it to let go now. Not to mention having their own platform in play is core to survival of their other services. Yes, what they will do is reduce the costs on its mobile SKU development and 1st party phone operations maybe. But it will limp. Along with Chrome OS and Mac OS. And no one ever mention those two.
  • This!!! It's alive but we don't have new phone right now. Just wait and it will grow up again.
  • They probably won't kill it. But they can sell it especially if the other Microsoft segment is profitable in order to claim some loses. The UWP will live while msft cuts the loses. You think it's unthinkable? This is nothing compared to laying off 20k employees.
  • I get all conspiracy theorist when big companies claim they can't manage to make a Windows universal (phone) app. How resource constrained are they? Especially when cross-plat has never had more tooling. Who is making it "worth their while" to look like dopes? "How's about you just don't support that phone, eh? Think you can do that? Good. I knew we understood each other."
  • Why do folks want to pay three to six hundred dollars for a phone when they could get one for fifty bucks? Or is it just me?
  • I have my cyan coloured Telus Lumia 435.  And pretty pleased. The handsets are pretty boring.  They all look-a-like.  Too many models (550, 650, 950, 950XL, etc...)  Very few models get to all markets. One mass market model.  One flagship model.  The market doesn't need 8 models.  It only creates confusion and upsets people when the model they want isn't available in their country. The momentum is good.  It's good to see Microsoft in conquering mode again.  Now get me a small 7"/8" tablet with W10M and I will be happy...  For a while.
  • "Although Windows Continuum is interesting for mobile, I am not yet convinced it will push Lumia sales for consumers. I'd love to be proven wrong on that." My G/F does want a Continuum phone because she doesn't want to have to switch from a smartphone to a PC or a tablet anymore. She's a nurse not needing tremendous computing power at home to use Skype, check news on the web and write the occasional letter and she says she wants one device to rule them all! :D
  • If they are hanging their hopes on the 950 and 950XL, good luck. These idiots have still not taken OFFICIAL preorders and even worse have given no actual date. All hype is gone at this point.
  • I show my phone off, cause I love windows phone, but it embarrassing when I see a crappy lg android phone running apps this beautiful machine (m8) doesn't have. Microsoft needs to go in hard on ads, and drop a little something in the piggy of the app devs to get these app balls Rolling.
  • As long as they make 'em, I'll buy 'em. Just don't care for the alternatives.
  • Painful to say, but I think we are done here.  If the 950/950XL could have been announced as being able to run Android apps or some kind of concrete app gap solution was in place, that might have helped, but that didn't happen.  Plus it's been weeks since they were announced and even rabid WM fans like me don't actually know when or if they can even buy a 950 or 950XL, depending on their carrier or's depressingly confusing for us and we're the only ones lined up and asking for them to take our money.   I actually decided today to hold off on a 950 until I see some kind of movement on Android apps getting onto WM phones, because if that doesn't happen, it's over and quickly, and why buy a $500+ phone that I will probably have to refer to as my Zune 950? This is truly depressing.     
  • I really disagree about the apps. Its fine that there are tools to port them, but the selling point for the phone shouldn't be its ability to "run android apps". Thats even more depressing.
  • It's not that I must have Android apps on my WM phone, it's that I think WM devices have to have them to sell the phones to people besides true believers.  I think sales are going to continue to slip and it just won't make sense for Microsoft to keep aloft a division that's a money pit...and so WM goes away. 
  • Lumia 950 was not a successful launch. Maybe for ATT consumers.
  • Windows Phone 8.1 is a good os, but we are still waiting for:
    - Windows Phone 10
    - Universal app platform for W10/WM10 (W10 released but the app platform is not fully ready/documented/supported in dev tools)
    - Android conversion One there are in place in a few months' time the platform will be on a very good footing. In addition I hope Microsoft buys Xamarin and integrates it properly into visual studio. There is virtually no cost to maintaining the Windows Phone OS after W10 as it is just W10 minus desktop plus phone calls.
  • Well whatever happens with windows mobile, I will not be going to Apple or Android ever. I will do a cheap flip phone again if I have too.
  • Lol
  • Thats tge spirit boy!
  • This is the most depressing piece I've read from Daniel. But what can you do when you're faced with reality?
  • Click bait.
  • His 1Q 2016 Surface Phone dreams has nothing to do with reality. He knows it and is trying to put pressure on MS to do what he wants using influence. Not going to happen.
  • I think now is the time to leverage the Surface name for phones (at least x86 phones). Once these phones are ready (probably next year) they should target the high and mid ranges of the market. Microsoft can then also keep the Lumia name around for mid and lower range phones running arm. As much as I love my Lumia and see the name as an asset most others do not and it is time we as a community recognize that. The Surface name now commands tremendous weight and positive associations. I work in graphic design in an office over-run with Apple fans and even they are noticing the power of Microsoft's new premium hardware. It is time we use the Surface name to indicate a turning point in phone hardware just as we have seen in PC hardware. It's time to face it - Surface is the future.
  • Why do people rely so much on carrier support. Can't you just make all phones unlocked and then purchase a SIM from your fave carrier and use it in the phone? Sorry I'm not American.
  • I'm not American either. This behavior baffles me. Carriers in my country are only for people who can afford. If you don't have money, you have to buy unlocked. Even if you can afford monthly billing, many people still prefer to buy iPhones unlocked. I'm guessing Lumia will still be more successful outside United States.
  • Because carriers can control what devices they allow on their network.
    Q: Can I use my Verizon Wireless 4G SIM card in a 4G LTE device not purchased from Verizon Wireless? A: Yes. You may activate any 4G LTE device that has been certified by Verizon Wireless to be compatible with our 4G LTE network[emphasis added], including devices not purchased directly from Verizon Wireless. Simply activate your 4G SIM card on a Verizon Wireless price plan.
    Also until more recently, majority of phones didn't work as well (e.g., no LTE, no WiFi calling) or at all unless it was a carrier sanctioned device.
  • Not surprised with crap phones and no advertising. Not to mention store sales clerks that push apple droids at you.
  • Seriously!
  • MS closed the only customer service department for repair in my city. Unbelievable!
  • The end is coming, the end is coming read all about it....
  • I'll carry a WP it until it becomes unusable. I'm glad there's a medium between overpriced iPhones and the terrible OS that is Android. I was recently reminded when the wife switched to a high end Android. She's so frustrated with it. There are problems with every platform. If the problem with WP is apps, screw it; I'll use the web. Snapchat? Keep it.
  • "I'll carry a WP until it becomes unusable."    This is my current strategy with my 640 as well, lol.        
  • Currently using 640 which works like magic...I am not a human machine who can get trapped in those shit lagdroids....will buy a new windows phone when needed may be after a year...and I have firm believe that they will exist at that time..#proudwindowsphoneowner
  • Just to put things into perspective. Blackberry only sold 800,000 phones (in the previous year) and needs to sell at least 5 million handsets in order to stay in the hardware business...
  • Hardly surprising.  There hasn't been s**t out.  I picked up the 640 a few months ago.  It's a very capible phone for the money but it's still a plastic phone with mediocre resolution.  If Microsoft can put out a Lumia similar in quality to the new HTC A9 between $249 ~ $299 I think it would sell well. Maybe $399 with continuum and high pixel ensity. I'm personally very tempted to pickup the A9 though.  Nice price point.  Nice specs.  Not an iPhone 6s but its price reflects that. As far as the 640 and lower end phones, I think MS would be wise to team up with 3rd party MFGS like Mozo for premium backs and cases.  There could be a real market around making sh**y plastic phones into phones that feel premium.  I'd LOVE a 950 quality Mozo back for my 640.  
  • There was nothing major available, which is why... You can have all the cheap phones you want, but everyone aspires to owning that flagship. At least they can still differentiate themselves from Apple and Android offerings :)
  • #Lumia 640 is not sold out on showrooms in India. It's available for only through online shopping.
  • Epic fail
  • Microsoft dropped the ball with phones. The Lumia name needs to be put down. We got Surface, Surface Pro, Surface Book, release a Surface Phone and watch the preorder button get destroyed.... No more Lumia.
  • Windows has the best OS in the cell phone market. It's a real shame that they can't build off that and make Windows Phone a success.  While I'm not an app fan, that's what it comes down to right now in the cell phone market and is why MS is failing miserably.  Great OS, nice cameras, wireless charging.  However, lack of apps and being stuck with IE (really my only complaint abour Windows Phone), turns off most users.  It's a shame that one day in the near future I'll have to decide on Android or Apple.  I've tried and hated both experiences in the past, so I'm not looking forward to going back again, but quite frankly, it seems inevitable. 
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