Microsoft unveils Windows Phone 7.8 update for current hardware

Microsoft's Windows Phone 7.8

The question of what Microsoft would do for those current Windows Phone users who have generation 1 and generation 1.5 devices like the HTC Titan or the highly popular Nokia Lumia 900 for Windows Phone 8 has finally been answered.

Windows Phone 8’s main features involve new hardware like multi-core processors, NFC and higher resolution displays. Phones like the Lumia 900 cannot take advantage of these new features but Windows Phone 8 also brings additional changes to the Start screen which current users can take advantage of.

In able to ensure that current customers have the best and latest from Microsoft, the company is officially offering Windows Phone 7.8 as an OS upgrade. Windows Phone 7.8 will still be based on the CE kernel and won’t enable advanced Windows Phone 8 features like app and games that use native programming, but it will give current users the new Start screen and appearance of Windows Phone 8.

The new Start screen in Windows Phone 8 has three new elements, including

  • Variable tile sizes, including user customizable selection between small, medium and so-called “double wide” tiles
  • Removal of the “gutter” aka “the gap” known as the off-centered space to the right of the Start screen. The gutter was a carry-over from the Zune days but now Tiles will be evenly distributed on the Start screen
  • New tile colors – yes, while the 10 + 1 model of Accent colors for Windows Phone carried us for nearly two years, Windows Phone 8 and Windows Phone 7.8 will offer a wider selection of colors

Although not being able to directly upgrade to the new NT kernel of Windows Phone 8 may be a bit of a letdown for current users, the Windows Phone 7.8 upgrade should offer new Windows Phone users nearly the same experience considering their lack of advanced hardware.

Update: Nokia just announced Play To DLNA support, Counters for data information, Nokia Music 3.0 and Camera Extras for all current Lumia phones

Do you think it’s a fair compromise and are you satisfied? Let us know in comments.

Daniel Rubino
Editor-in-chief

Daniel Rubino is the Editor-in-chief of Windows Central, head reviewer, podcast co-host, and analyst. He has been covering Microsoft since 2007 when this site was called WMExperts (and later Windows Phone Central). His interests include Windows, laptops, next-gen computing, and for some reason, watches. Before all this tech stuff, he worked on a Ph.D. in linguistics, watched people sleep (for medical purposes!), and ran the projectors at movie theaters because it was fun.

551 Comments
  • I mean kind of idk
  • Reskinning the UI, BFD.  We need Wallet sans the Tap to Pay NFC stuff (hell bring even that to the 610!)  We need the in app purchasing capability via Wallet so it will spur existing developers to keep updating 7.8 apps.
    I'd like the VOIP capabilities but I suspect they are offloading the call to the other core.
    Basically if it doesn't require dual cores, give it to us!
  • Well I do believe in the keynote they said there's some other things coming in the 7.8 update. But mane I miss understood that part.
  •  
    So Microsoft announce another product that won't be available for months. But worse, they announce that none of the current products will be compatible with it. The nascent Windows Phone market is already tiny in comparison with iOS and Android. This is just going to stop it in its tracks until October. Who in their right minds will buy a WinPho now?
     
    Does Microsoft have ANY commercial acumen at the top at all?
  • Incidentally, I actually quite like the 'gutter'. Removing it makes the WinPho look much more akin to an iOS device.
  • Dude, you always complain about the most retarded things! Go learn a trade and quitcherbitchin... =/
  • Wow.. Relax....
  • A common reason for announcing a product before it's ready, in spite of the negative impact to near-term sales, is the long-term impact on market share. MS has, as you point out, sacrificed the near-term sales in older to generate buzz and keep some current customers from moving to iOS or Android when existing contracts expire, by letting them know there's an updated Windows Phone model for them "coming soon."
     
    Whether this is better or worse in the long-run for MS is unclear, but I'm sure they weighed the pros and cons. I suspect they considered this and concluded that at their current market share, they have the luxury of having little to lose. They also seem to have gone out of their way to show that current hardware will get the updates that make sense (the non-hardware oriented updates) with Windows Phone 7.8 and still run future software. This will take some of the bite out of the announcement for Nokia and the other hardware vendors who are counting on their Windows Phone revenue between now and Windows Phone 8 and still have existing inventory to sell.
     
    Lastly, I don't think there's anything shocking in this announcement. We all knew that Windows Phone 8 was coming this fall, so bringing some clarity to the fuzzy future is reasonable and helpful to the consumer side of the marketplace. This may also be the beginning of a steady drumbeat of new information leading up to the release. That's also a standard approach to keep the product in the news for max publicity and market awareness by the time of release.
  • Comments like yours should not be allowed. It was well thought out, reasoned, good grammar and punctuation, informed, and a pleasure to read. Only comments that appear to be written by someone whose head has been slammed repeatedly by his knee can post here.
  • But will it run Crysis?
  • No
  • At least we weren't forgotten
  • Exactly. Im satisfied now
  • Exactly.  I have owned my phone for almost 2 years so I cannot complain as tech/phones change constantly and would hinder the growth of WP's if they had to continue to cater to older, my phone, in general.  I am more than happy to get the new start screen! 
     
    Give me data/memory transfer so when I buy a new phone I can continue my games...that is what I care about most.
  • Yep. My 900 is only 2 months old, and I am ok with this. It would be nice to have wallet, and VOIP, but I understand that it may have limitations on current hardware.
  • Nice job Microsoft! This is still a nice way to offer costumers a Windows Phone 8 experience!
  • I will be selling my 900 considering it sounds like we are gonna be left out of some apps....color me disappointed...
  • Make that two
  • Make that three
  • Make that four. (waiting til September then getting rid of it)
  • umm... Five.. But yeah tech industry.. I don't really care too much though until I start getting messages like "umm.. Dude you need two cores for this" When that times comes color me disappointed but if that time is when my contract is up I won't mind at all :D
  •  
    For those Nokia Lumia 900 owners, who just have decided to sell your Lumia 900 because of this announcement, I am more than happy to buy the Lumia 900 from you. Let me know, when you are ready to sell.
    Of course, one lucky winner.
  • Yeah, I mean, I figured that the single-core Lumia 900 using an old Snapdragon wasn't going to be able to run a lot of the new stuff... but I'm still disappointed at the reality of it.  Oh well.
  • You knew when the 900 came out that Windows 8 was coming in the fall. Don't be disappointed when you could have very easily held out a little longer for what's coming. I like the 900's myself but held back so I could take advantage and get the OS upgrade and a new Nokia when they become available.
    ......and maybe one of those new Surface Tablets as well
  • I agree.  I understand being bummed out, but it was known wp8 was going to be introduced and there is no way current tech would on par with 'all' of wp8.  Lumia 900 is a sweet phone and the update to 7.8 is great, imo.  Shoot, I have an ipad2 and I knew apple will shoot out another ipad every year and I will miss out on applications because of this.  This is how tech world moves.  Shoot, I have some games on my ipad that I cannot update because the update uses tech for the new ipad3. 
    I guess what I am saying is each year we should expect changes and not all of them will coexist with our current hardware.
  • Selling my five months old Omnia W. Doubt I will be getting another WP.
  • Of course they just de-valued it, whose gonna buy a device that can't di everything
  • Considering you're not that smart, LOTS of new stuff is coming for the current Lumias, you're whining for nothing at all! Stuff a sock in it... =p
  • Make that six
  • Not exactly happy considering the fact that developers will jump on the native code bandwagon to take advantage of the performance, so there's a problem IMO.
    Still, it's the best they can get now.
  • Now tell me how this is gonna play out. As a developer you want to write an app and make money from it. Are you gonna write it such that at least 20 million people give or take has access to or just, well, zero?. Trust me most apps are still gonna work with current devices for at least another year.
  • Exactly.
    People are so damn stupid sometimes.
    Do you REALLY think developers are all going to run right out and make a bunch of apps that only run on WP8 when WP7 apps will run on BOTH WP7 AND WP8 and the installed base of WP7 phones is 20 million plus and WP8 will take YEARS to reach that?
    It makes absolutely no sense. 
    It will be at LEAST a year before you see any significant number of WP8 only apps and even then it will be a slow start. 
    So by all means, race out and sell your WP7 phones and buy new ones and hurry up and wait for that avalanche of WP8 apps which is going to take a minimum 12-18 months to arrive. Or sell your WP7 phone in protest and go buy a buggy Android. Whatever.
    Some of you are a bunch of impatient, immature children. It's ridiculous. Only an idiot who doesn't have the slightest understanding of how software development works would think WP7 phones are going to magically be left high and dry the day after the first WP8 phone goes on sale. Bunch of overreacting jackasses. 
  • Legacy?  You mean the devices that are selling TODAY for $99/$199 with a 24-month contract?
     
    Yikes MSFT.  As a Titan II owner, I guess I understand but am disappointed that my phone is already "Legacy."
  • That's very true. You can walk in to At&T and get a brand new Lumia and already be a legacy device? That's not right.
  • "Right" or not, Legacy is a technical term, meaning -- in this context -- "hardware that we built to in our last generation." From the standpoint of WP8, which is still being developed, and is being developed to a new hardware spec, *everything* currently on the market would be considered "legacy."
    This is not a new concept: in every software domain, the moment anyone starts developing against a new standard, the current standard becomes "legacy." It's not meant to be an insult.
  • As someone in the software world, this is very difficult to make a consumer understand..
    just like a car losing value as soon as you drive it off the lot, the phone you walk out the store with is worth less and on a OS that is outdated..
    People expect too much and make alot of demands...
     
  • I think AT&T is still selling the 3G iPhone if you're looking for an up-to-date phone.
  • You nailed it. Wonder if there will be buyback programs similar to iPhone
  • When did apple have a buy back program for the iPhone?? I work for ATT and I dont remember ever having an iPhone buyback program because a new model came out. AT&T does have a buy back program but that's for any type of phone, not just iPhone.
  • I was just about to say that and doesn't it cost $150? I do know that the apple store direct wants $150 to exchange the iphone 4 to 4s
  • Well it's better than nothing. Too bad I'm stuck in a 2 year contract before I can upgrade. That's ages in technology years!
  • If you haggle w/ your provider, you can prob upgrade after 1yr or 18 months... I do it all the time w/ at&t
  • T-Mo lets you upgrade after 21 but you can argue 19. 
     
    Good to know I have options now though.  7.8 will carry my DVP until I get a WP 8 device.  I'm cool with that.  Had a good run.  Pre-Nodo, No-do, Mango, 8107, 7.8 is respectable. 
  • I can understand that current hardware doesn't have dual-core SOC's or NFC, but is a DC SOC really needed for Windows 8 kernel/core?  That's something I would love to know.  I hope all of the Windows 8 features they have shown (minus NFC) are coming to Windows Phone 7.8.
  • The answer to that is yes, its hard. Kernels and chipsets are messy business.
  • Well, assume for a minute that Microsoft is so full of awesome that they'd spare no expense to modify the Win8 kernel and all of their code so it can run on older devices. You'd still be screwed, because the OEMs would never agree to rewrite ALL of their chipset drivers to switch from the WinCE driver model to the Win8 driver model. It's just a fundamental incompatibility issue that's not feasible to solve. So I think the fact that Microsoft is committing resources to bring a good chunk of Apollo functionality back to Mango shows how much they do care about their "legacy" customers, and that they are in fact pretty full of awesome. They totally didn't have to do that.
  • Exactly! I am very pleased with what MS has done here.
  • I'm happy for any update MS will give me to look like Windows Phone 8 with customizable tiles and some.
  • Wrong. They had to do that our risk alienating every single customer who's bought into the platform in the last 8 months. I can't imagine how that would register on the Richter scale of nerdrage across the internets.
  • While I understand hardware limitations, I am very disappointed that I will not be running 8 on my Gen 1 device.
  • If wishes were crackers, my daughter would be fed... =/
  • LMAO!
  • What I am disappointed about is that good ole AT&T withheld my 8107 update thus not giving me a back up point since Mango, In that amount of time I was doomed to loose the messages concerning birth of grandchild with the videos and back and forth on that event. Now don't get me wrong I really have loved my phone, but there is another "but" as when my "Legacy" device had a hardware problem and needed to be replaced under warranty, that is when I found what that 8107 update cost me in not only unrecoverable memory loss but I also found that Microsoft had no regular back up or recovery through Zune I had mistakingly assumed each time I synced to Zune on my computer restore points were being made (thanks to Skdrive and Snapcrowd )I had backed up all photos and music.Now I am unable to reinstall any pre-paid apps and what ever personalization in those apps, but am also out of luck on any of the hundreds of personalizations we all put hours into our phones making lists etc. etc. . The replacement phone is identical to original but there being no recovery or backup I have lost any data such as assigned ring tones groupings text msg strings and on and on, the replacement phone is effectively a do over the day I first walked out of AT&T. You just can not believe how much "tweaking" this involves over many months of using your phone, what have all of the people who have upgraded their phones done about having to start over each time they have bought a new or replacement phone ? Guess I should have figured a way to back all of this up before my device failure, did MSFT provide a way to migrate I was just too stupid to find?
    Truly sorry for the rant but venting some how makes me feel a little less screwed for never getting the 8107 that I think would have saved or at least lessened my data losses.
  • I think this is the biggest flaw in the current Windows Phone implementation. However, one of your concerns - access to paid apps -- is possible. Just go back to the app you bought in the Marketplace and go to purchase it again. The system knows from your Windows Live ID (assuming you're still using the same one) that you've already bought the apps and will not require you to pay again.
     
    Pictures and music should be backed up in Zune. All your pictures will be in a sub folder in your "My Pictures" folder. They will not automatically be copied back over to your phone, but you can do this in Zune by dragging them back onto the phone.
     
    But you're right about everything else. All other data, phone and text history, customization, game progress/scores, etc. is lost and needs to be rebuilt from scratch. I had 3 stars on every level of Angry Birds (already repeated from having done that on my previous Palm Pre), and now after re-installing the app (for free at least), all the levels are locked again as if I've never played the game.
     
    Interestingly, some apps do seem to maintain their data, like the destination list in the GPS directional software. I think this means that the apps themselves could also do something to save your data on their own servers, if they wanted. It's just that almost none of them seem to do that, and they shouldn't have to. MS should do what you said - backup everything each time you sync, especially since that is done by connecting to your own personal computer anyway (it's not like it's taking up space on their servers or eating up carrier bandwidth).
  • Completely fair.  Excited for the update.
  • I agree.
  • Me too.
  • Fair!
  • People whine too much. This is fair by a long shot seeing as how we can't upgrade the hardware. And they'll continue to develop apps for us.
  • I agree. And many people seem upset at HTC and Nokia for releasing phones which so soon are "Legacy", but 1. Nokia needed the money and 2. would you rather we only had our first-gen devices for the year or two that many of us have? It was the logical move, and Windows Phone 8 is going to rock.
  • +1. The reality is most people don't care that their phone doesn't get upgraded so long as it still works fine. What percent of current Android and iOS devices will NOT be able to run the full version of Jelly Bean (assuming this comes out this fall as I would expect) and iOS? I know plenty of people that have said they were waiting for Windows Phone 8 before getting one. Actually, I know more people that were waiting for WP8 than WP7.5 users.
    I bought my Lumia 710 off contract and, until PureView comes to Windows Phone, I see no reason to buy a Windows Phone 8 device. Only the truly die-hard users ever buy all the latest devices. Since most of the world is far from being a die-hard user, I don't think 7.8 vs 8.0 is really going to cause much more than a blip of a fraction of a percent in marketshare with people that refuse to buy a Windows Phone again vs. how many people are going to buy a Windows Phone 8 because it's what they were waiting for or because they were so happy with their Windows Phone 7.5.
  • +1
  • Well said.
  • I agree also.  I am glad they didn't forget us.  Very excited for the update.  My Lumia 900 is the best phone I have ever had, so I am excited about extending it's life.
  • Damn
  • As expected..
     
    tbh, expecting WP8 to run on  current devices would be much like iPhone running OS X
  • Glad I didn't upgrade... hello windows phone 8.
  • I'm fine with this.  I was going to buy an new WP8 device anyway.  Hopefully with Pureview. 
  • Exactly my thought when I preordered Lumia 900. Plus wp8 update is still months away. I guess I'll be fine for the time being.
  • Yeah by the time it's out I probably want a new phone. I'm never on contracts they are evil.
  • Microsoft had to do something like this otherwise they would be undoing all the good work they have built with WP7. The 7.8 update is a compromise, but im thinking of a the Lumia 900 owners here, they've kind of been cheated in a way.
  • As a Lumia 900 owner, I'm not sure I'm dissapointed.  I would really need to see what features will be available in 7.8 versus 8 (minus all of the hardware features that would require newer devices.)
  • I'm a little disappointed, yet happy.
  • I don't think so. They also showed some nice Nokia-exclusive app upgrades that will be coming in 7.8. Under the circumstances, I think MS really did well with this. It could have been a nightmare disaster (I'm looking at you, Android ICS.) In fact, I'm tempted to pick up a gently used 900 off eBay for cheap when the WP8 devices start rolling out. 
  • You can pick mine up now if you like! Just reply to this message with a means of contact. Mine is very gently used! l
  • I'm a little disappointed that the most recent phones aren't going to support WP8.  Not having native games is a bit of a bummer.  At the same time, I get it.  The hard part is the original WP7 customers will be able to upgrade, but the newest customers get hosed in the long run.
  • So glad I held off from buying the lumia. Took everything I had to keep using this focus.
  • Yes, good job Dickhole! =D
  • i would think that the lack of NT kernel means a halt in new app development? If this is true, then this really sucks because no more new apps will be released
     
     
  • But we were expecting native gaming on current handsets
  • exactly!!! :(
  • Guys, lets not blame MS for this flop; I too am a Lumia 900 owner yet I don't blame them. The manufacturers knew all about Apollo and chose to put the L900 & Titan II out with lower specs/screens than Apollo requires (We should pressure them to implement a buy back or something). They knew all about Apollo's Kernel, etc before release these lated devices.
  • I agree about not blaming MS but I wouldn't expect oems to put money into hardware the OS didnt support. Image having a dual core WP7 with HD display and NFC, but never being able to use the features (or if this was able to upgrade to wp8, doubtful, you'd have to wait a while). In the world of technology this makes no sense.
  • I agree it was very short sighted of Nokia to release the 900 with legacy hardware... How cool would it have been if the Nokia guy came out and said and buy the way any 900 user qualify cause we put a DC chip in ;). Oh well, its mostly a good phone. And that start screen look cool.
  • "Fools! That would NEVER work!." ...My name IS...
  • As an HTC Arrive user waiting on a new Windows Phone option on Sprint, I am excited that we will be getting some of the features of WP8 to tide us over. Its not a perfect solution as initially there will be some fragmenting of the market, but it is better than just leaving us legacy users behind. Very excited about the future of WP!
  • I have an Arrive as well. You're right, assuming that Sprint will bother pushing out this update.
  • I think Sprint has abandoned ship, which is too bad since I love the Arrive.  7.8 will be a nice hold over, but as soon as I'm off contract in the Spring I'm grabbing the first WP8 Nokia with a keyboard.
  • I agree.  Not sure why sprint even carried the device since they did ZERO in the way of selling, pushing, or training their employees about the device. 
  • Paul Thurrott is claiming that WP 7.8 will be pushed to all customers by Microsoft -- not the carriers.  Of course, this is the same Paul Thurrott that was adamant that there would be no such upgrade at all, so who knows.
  • Casting my "me too!" in here. It's great we're getting a little something. Can't wait to see it!
  • Just another Sprint Arrive user chiming in. I say, something is better than nothing at all. I'm good with this. I think they're kinda meeting us halfway, and that is a fair shake and then some. But yes, here is hoping SPRINT gets on the ball and pushes this update to us, if at all!!! (not to mention pick up three or four WP8 handsets)
  • Same thing. I've been wanting to switch to AT&T, but by the time my contract ends, Sprint may have WP8 devices out.
  • Eh. Not really excited. I've only had my phone since last November. Now I'm stuck with a phone that's going to miss out on alot of new and exciting apps unless I fork over another 500 - 600 off contract. /sigh
  • Sell it then buy a new one.
  • Yeah that's probably what I'll end up doing. I think my first purchase is going to be a surface tablet though. :)
  • Your wp7 handsets are frickin worthless now, there will be a boat load of suppliers trying to off load them, who the feck is gunna sign up for a two year contract on a dead platform.
  • Not sure how my handset is worthless...I am using it now...seems ok.
  • YOU'RE a freaking dead platform nablor!!! =P Sorry, I couldn't resist...
  • If I remember correctly, cant you buy out of a contract for like $150???
  • They are giving us as much as they can with hardware limitations.  The new layout and other built in features are exactly what we needed. Hardware required things like Native support (New Kernel), NFC ect I wasn't expecting.
  • Agreed.
  • Exactly! I wish more people would understand this!
  • What about migration/backup support for current phones?
  • I doubt there will be any (as much as I would like to see it)
  • I think the compromise is just fine (: im still going to be getting me some new hardware but in the mean time while I save up for a new phone. I still get enjoy some of windows phone 8 features on my titian. :D
  • Its fair, thanks Microsoft..next time I'll be more patient. Just like retina mac pro..waiting for 13inch instead of spending 2k. I'll get a wp8 device next year ;)
  • Dunno what I think till we see what the 7.8 fully includes other then start
  • Perfectly fair, I'm satisfied with this compromise.
  • Hopefully Microsoft will still try get games pushed out to WP7 when it comes to LIVE Enabled Titles either way I'm fine with my Phone in the future I think I want to get a Microsoft Surface :P My current HTC Trophy does a fine job right now for when I'm out and about or fancy playing a game!
     
    Phone Screens are not just big enough to play anything that tries to use Virtual Analog Sticks anyways its a awful experiance!
  • When was this announced? I have been watching the Windows Phone Summit and didn't hear this mentioned. 
    As a Lumia 800 owner I am annoyed.
  • Today... Right now. http://channel9.msdn.com/
  • The press was briefed on this bit of detail prior to the event. The embargo was lifted at 10am so they're sharing this with the world now.
  • I hope you're directing that at Nokia and HTC because both of them knew about Apollo prior to releasing the 900 & Titan II. I appreciate MS making and effort to provide us with an upgrade but hoping cellular carrier offer a trade-in. We as users also know multi-cores and betters screen were coming but we couldn't display a little patience....That a fact, so blame yourself as well!
  • Its a good thing I got my trophy free from that ms store challenge offer or I would be pissed. Hello fragmentation!
  • You're missing the point,we get everything WP8 gets except for native code apps. Can't say the same for Android
  • All we know is we get that new start screen. Native coded programs won't run. It's not clear if important features like the direct skype integration will come (don't think so). They will use a little paint to make Windows 7 look like Windows 8 and then abandon it.
  • Define Fragmentation for me thks
  • Yeah! Define fragmentation for me, too. I keep seeing that word bandied about and after I finish reading their post I'm left with the thought that I didn't know a lobotomy was elective surgery.
  • So MS should freeze their capabilities circa 2010?  This isn't fragmentation, it's evolution.  It seems like non-hardware dependendant WP8 features will appear on ALL WP7 devices.  I can show you Android devices sold less than 6 months ago still rocking Froyo.  This is the opposite of fragmentation, it's the rollout of a new OS, and oh by the way a SECOND OS to give legacy users as close to the new experience as hardware allows.  Google only wishes they could keep their ecosystem this integrated.
  • +1
  • Precisely.
    It's refreshing to see there is at least one person here who knows what the word fragmentation means when it comes to OS's. There are too many clueless idiots throwing that word lately. 
  • I think this is a very fair compromise. Knowing that many of the new features of Appollo are hardware related (i.e. resolution, NFC, multicore support), at least they're giving early adopters some sort of Appollo love and not much of a fragmentation issue.
    Cool! Way cool!
  • Early Adopters..?
    I got my L710 in January and now its old.....
    We are cheated.. :'(
  • Don't feel that way until you see what all you get with the upgrade. We knew going in that WP8 would have hardware upgrades that the current and older models wouldn't be able to get.
    So you're technically crying over spilled milk. Nothing you can do about it now.
  • Seriously its not any different then buying an iPhone4s right now. come this fall it will probably me legacy too and more than likely not get all the new advancements just like how the iPhone4 didnt get siri. I'm just happy Microsoft is taking apples route instead of androids. We still get an update but only stuff our current hardware can handle.
  • Don't care....
  • Now that's out the way, which carriers/OEMs will have WP8 AND actually promote it?
  • So glad I bought used Gen 1 device. I would be pissed if I just signed a contract for a lumia 900
  • Me too. I'm glad I can't upgrade until the end of the year.
  • Would you be just as pissed if you bought any of the other 2nd generation WP handsets (i.e. Titan, Titan II, HTC Radar, etc.)?
  • Thats fine by me, I have no problem understanding that I can't have features that my cellphone doesn't support (Lumia 800). I will see in autumn what cellphone I will buy ( of course a WP 8).
     
  • The Smartphone Beta test is over :D Yeah right Ben...
    With Android I could now flash a custom ROM, I can't with WP7, still the fanboys are happy :D
  • Good for you.  Now give yourself a pat on the back.  Consumers won't know how to do this, and they just expect things to work.
  • What are you taking about? There are plenty of custom roms out there for WP.
  • You can flash a custom Android ROM that has functionality centering around NFC into a phone that does not have NFC hardware and have that ROM work?  Wow.  Android is MAGICAL!
  • So that explains why Android is so together... Oh wait no it doesn't...
  • Been there and done that on an xperia. Call volume all over the place, crashes and no camera. I personally found ICS custom roms a waste of time.
  • Yeah but androids custom rom almost always have tons of bug
  • Does this include focus flash ?????
  • Yeah. Nothing that is out in the field right now will take WP8.
  • I'm really sad....even if we get the nice looks, there would be no new apps for us.
  • Exactly, i dont care about NFC, resolutions and what not - but there will be a lot of apps that will simply not be available for 7.x phones. 
     
    I have only a cheap 710 - but i can see how someone with a new expensive phone he bought recently would be pissed off by this.
     
    P.S. this will fk over nokia sales for the next months too
  • :) im happy with that
  • I got my Focus for free on 3yr contract. After 1 yr, I upgraded to Lumia for only $35 after rebates, and only extend my contract by 1 yr. Hopefully by the time WP8 comes out, I can upgrade again spring 2013! :D
  • I can see deals like this, contract extensions happen all the time.  Not sure why anyone would fret. 
  • I think it's fair. I'm glad the left a gap for a 7.9 version too :P
  • Lol my gf has been dying to upgrade but i told her no because of wp8 coming. I kne we would only get some of the wp8 experience hince being smart and waiting
  • my brand new phone outdated just like that <Sighs> o well i love my lumia and as long as i get some taste of wp8 its better than no taste at all but i will deffinately be buying a new wp8 device and a surface i hope they get bundled :)
  • Hopefully 7.8 is not something that only looks like wp8. I didn't buy lumia 900 for looks!!.. Might have to sell my phone!!
  • Well I guess most people did just that and bought the 900 and the 800 on looks and they have not changed. Obviously we need to know what 7.8 and 8 means in everyday use but this on the face of it sounds like a fair compromise especially considering the difference in OS.
  • Why are some of you disappointed?... We all knew Apollo was coming... Did you not expect hardware upgrades. I was afraid their wouldn't be. Looking fwd to WP8!
  • A lot of people don't read blogs about phones, so they didn't (probably still don't) know what Apollo is, but still bought new WP7 phones recently due to the hyping of the 900s. They don't even know yet that their new phone is now EOL'd.
  • I guess you're right. But folks that's do read blogs and are true to WP are crying like they got raped... Hilarious!
  • I'm on my 2nd WP now (NL900) and was hoping with the update the screen resolution would be addressed - I thought surely this feature-packed phone had the ability for better video playback resolution than what it has. I read that it was limited by the OS so with an OS upgrade I was SURE that while some things wouldn't be possible this would. So, just got new phone and now for 2 years I get to watch everyone else have the good stuff. Thanks WP.
  • Resolution is a physical property of the display. You can't magically increase resolution through software updates.
  • Exactly. It's like buying a new car one year and the next year a newer model comes out with a better feature.
    Firmware upgrades/updates is software, but hardware updates just isn't possible. And for those who don't read phone blogs, then this really won't matter to them, now will it?
    They'll receive an update and think it's the best thing in the world.
  • Don't mean to pile on, but that's the same thing as being disappointed because the upgrade won't turn your black 900 into a magenta 900. A software update cannot change the hardware into something it isn't.
  • stopped watching stream.
    Had a HD7 since launch in UK, then upgraded (upgraded is a joke word in this instance) to a lumia 900
    absolutely shafted, Lumia 900, 1 month old, now a legacy device, waste of fu(king money (2 year contract, MS should be hung up for pushing lumias onto people when they are outdated within a month).
     
    iOS and android owners will be pi$$ing themselves at WP early adopters
     
  • Just upgrade after 1year... If you haggle w/ your provider Im sure you'll fine. Apollo was announced since last year... People should have waited a few months.
  • Would you rather not get an update at all? hijo de la puta vieja gorda malagradecido
  • I didn't realize that the minute something new was announced it automatically made all existing products outdated.
  • I know right?
    Didn't you know that something you loved yesterday suddenly sucks and is a piece of junk if something new is announced? 
    It's hilarious to watch the idiot consumer sheep getting all worked up in a lather about this. All the entitlement and personal offense. Like Nokia insulted their mothers. So ridiculous. It's business people, get over it. Stuff has to be updated sometime. No one owes you endless update compatibility. The line has to be drawn somewhere. I have a Lumia 900 and I'm not crying like a little baby with a full diaper over this. My phone is just as awesome as it was the day before the announcement. It's not a big deal.
    I have a phone I love, which was FREE in my case, thanks to Nokia's generous refund, but was still a bargain at $99. Now I just found out I'm getting a really nice software update with a cooler start screen. I'm super happy about that. The world is not going to end just because I can't upgrade this phone to WP8. It's going to take the length of my contract before there are even a significant number of WP8 apps out to take advantage of anyway.
    So I'll enjoy the phone I have until then. Let them work the bugs out of WP8 and let the developers start to get their feet wet. By the time my contact is up, WP8 will be well vetted and there will actually be some apps for it and Nokia will probably have had time to make a pureview Lumia by then.
    Until then, excuse me if I don't join the whining baby parade, I'm too busy enjoying what I've already got. 
  • You're a fucking idiot.
  • Amen brother feel your pain
  • Chillax. The phone is just announced. Nobody can buy it yet. So enjoy the Lumia and all the Nokia apps. By the time WP8 comes out, you won't have long to wait before you can renegotiate with your carrier.
  • My upgrade i think is Summer 2013, but not in a rush to get wp8 phone until i see what Nokia is putting out. 
  • Believe it not, I liked the off center "gutter" look, but no biggie. What I am worries about, is what is going to happen to those of us with phones from companies that sold us lemons and ran and hid because they didn't want to deal with it, aka The Dell Venue Pro. So, since Dell is no longer selling or supporting the Venue Pro, does that mean no 7.8?
  • Yeah, I liked the gutter too.
  • Gutter always bothered me, OCD in me I guess. Why would anyone like it though? I don't understand. Why not maximize available screen space?
  • It does a lot for the tiles. If you remove it and scale the columns to fill the space there would only be room for about 3⅓ rows, and I think cutting that much off the bottom row would have looked really bad.
  • Off-centering and slight asymmetry are very aesthetically pleasing believe it or not.Take a random picture of somebody's face, cut one half  off and mirror the other half so you get a perfectly symmetrical face. You will see that that face looks just weird. That being said, eventhough I like the gutter, I like the new homescreen as well, it does a better job at conveying the illusion that there is a wall of information and you just focus on some part of it through your screen.
  • Does 7.8 include a screen orientation lock?!  I will not be happy with Windows Phone until I get that "feature".
    Part of me is fine with the 7.8 update and part of me thinks that it's crazy that a phone that came out in April 2012 is given "legacy" status in June 2012.  Even Android hardware is current for longer than two months.
  • The update seems okay, but I had been somewhat hopeful of them bringing at least some more sophisticated networking options to the device. I figured the update might allow me to access my corporate network (EAPS-TTLS that can be accessed by every other mobile os on the market) and the way it looks I might have to look for a different phone for that reason :-(.
  • I hope DFT or someone on xda can port wp8 to our 2nd Gen wp7.5. Either way 7.8 is good for now. I would rather have a phone with multiple cores flying on wp8 than a sluggish Android on multiple cores.
  • Legacy is April 2012.  Selling my phone asap. 
  • Selling it for what?
  • You in the market for a Cyan blue Nokia 900?  I will probably go crawling back to iOS or Android.  Who knows.
  • And you do realise your iPhone or Android will be legacy once they announce their new OS version? This is how the smartphone world works. It moves fast. If you want to keep up you have dish the cash, otherwise be happy with what you got and when you can upgrade you get the latest and greatest at that time.
  • I have  mixed feelings about this, I love the new start screen UI, and am happy were getting that, I'm a little upset  about not getting the new kernel so the windows phone 8 apps won't work. Then again I don't really use apps that often so I don't care that much. 
    Its a good compromise, and by the time I start caring about new apps not working I'll be able to upgrade.
  • What sense does it make to be upset that you're not getting the Win8 kernel? It won't run on existing WP7 devices anyway. MS can't give you something in an update that your hardware cannot run.
    Overall, I agree that this is a very good compromise. It's more than I was expecting, that's for sure.
  • I'm still holding out for more memory, or flexible memory like I have in the original Focus. To me storage is the most important feature; no need to upgrade until a new model offers parity with what I have today. Or despite my other issues with it, my next phone could be Android after all.
  • They do have flex memory. They just announced all phones will have miniSD capability...
  • SKYPE????
  • Yes... w/ multitasking...no more drop calls while using Skype... Sweet!
  • I WANT A VIDEO OF THE PRESS CONFERENCE!
  • http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Windows-Phone/Summit
  • They could just as easily have not bothered calling it 7.8 and just said 8 minus certain features and this would have been a non-issue. It's really no different than older iPhones not getting features in a new iOS release. The 4 doesn't have Siri and that wasn't even due to a hardware limitation.
  • You forget about the lack of app development. All iPhones can run apps assuming that there are no hardware requirements because the kernel is the same
     
  • This is more about the SDK used. iPhone apps written with, say, the 5.0 SDK won't run on an iPhone 3G (iOS 4.1.2 is the last version available for it). But, developers can use XCode to make an app for 4.1.2 (or earlier), to ensure a wider audience, so long as they don't need any new features the newer SDK affords (often providing access to new hardware or software features).
    The same thing applies here - Visual Studio will still let developers build apps for WP7.5 (and 7.8) - and Microsoft said at the conference they recommend most apps should continue to be built with XML & C#. If a developer doesn't have to use a new hardware feature, there's no real harm in compiling for last-gen devices, and they'd be smart to do that as they'll have a wider audience to consume their product.
    Granted, we'll probably not see the same influx of games for WP7.8 due to the lack of C/C++ support, but many games are developed in XNA and will still support current devices.
    Semi-related example: The developer of SpellTower on iOS released it using the 5.0 SDK - I couldn't install it on my iPhone 3G, and contacted him (along with others) - and he was nice enough to update the app (which didn't rely on anything special in iOS5) so I could buy it and run it on my older device. I'd think a similar situation would apply to existing WinPhone devices.
  • now that's a good explanation :) I also think the situation is not as bad as most people make it out to be. They have said that there will probably be other things included in 7.8 so I'm guessing it will bring everything from 8 that our current hardware is capable of.
  • Yeah, a spiffy new interface, new Maps, and (maybe) the Wallet sans NFC. What we're not getting: New apps. How many new apps do you think will be written for WP7 once WP8 comes out? Not many is my prediction. I'm sure there will be some but the vast majority are going to be written to WP8 (how many new WP6.x apps were written when WP7 came out?). Sorry guys. I hope everyone likes the apps they have because within a few months they won't be getting any new ones. Really sucks. We'll have to sit there and watch while our iPhone, Android, Windows Phone, AND BB users get to play with cool new apps while we sit here playing with a 3 year old version of Angry Birds.
     
  • Not just new apps. No doubt MS will help the big name ones (through support or raw cash) switch over to RT to create a showcase of great brand-name apps for WP8.
  • Sorry but the situation with WM6 was completely different. As long as you don't use native code or any special new hardware (e.g. a specific nfc app) will be able to run on WP7.8. Haven't you read one of the other articles? It litteraly states: "applications for Windows Phone 7.x will automatically run on Windows Phone 8 with little or no changes to the code of the app.  Apps coded on Windows Phone 8 will conversely run on Windows Phone 7.x as well so long as they don’t use native coding" (- Daniel Rubino) so what you are saying is just not correct.
  • Gutted, just purchased a Lumia 900 on a 24-month contract!! #Rage
  • If you're still in the 30 day return period, just take it back. Problem solved.
  • Obviously the lack of hardware support means some features would be impossible on current devices. The lack of ability to run native apps/games is a pretty big blow since they used native development as a way to justify why big name apps/games haven't come out yet. Now we won't get them anyway until we get a new phone.
     
    I don't like the gutterless Start screen. The numbers on small tiles run into the right-side edge of the tile (there was an image of an outlook tile with 80 messages). The normal-sized tiles appear larger now to fill in the gutter which means you can't fit as many normal-sized tiles height-wise on the screen at once.
     
    I understand why they're making these changes, but it's happening at the cost of damaging the design aesthetic. It just looks sloppy.
  • You dnt have to have the small tiles if you don't like them... You can customize it anyway you like... Or keep it the way it is... No worries there!
  • Very Nice, Thank You Microsoft! I'm happy to get a little more life out of my Trophy.
  • I'd be really happy with that but... I haven't upgraded yet! :D
  • I was itching to buy a new WP over the last couple of months glade I waited and didn't buy.
  • I doubt the trophy even gets 7.8. I wonder how much I can get to sell this. I'd rather go back to android. At least I can root my way to ice cream sandwich
  • Lol did you even read the article? Gen 1 and Gen 1.5 get the 7.8 update, also if your going to downgrade to android go do it, instead of bringing your problems here, good day to you sir I look forward to you inevitable return to WP :P
  • LOL? The article says the update will be "offered". It doesn't say carriers will have to push it out. I wonder what resources carriers will put into upgrading these old phones?
  • Shut up stupid idiot
  • I wasn't aware you could root ICS ROMs onto 1st gen Android devices. Or even 2nd gen Android devices, for that matter. Hmmm, IIRC, even some 3rd gen Android devices can't get ICS. What was your point again?
  • Satisfied :D but I don't count I bought my lumia 900 outright and still have my upgrade coming at the end of the year but I won't upgrade till next April to keep the 2 year mark from my Samsung focus phone so Dan I'm pleased with windows/Microsoft ideas and support :D keep up the flawless work wer keepn up on the reading
  • Im excited for the changes and I think its definately fair. I just love my phone and missing out on a few games is the least of my worries.  Cant wait to resize tiles, more color options, and Im sure optimised code that will only make my device that much better!
  • Except it won't be a few games, it will be pretty much ALL games and likely the vast majority of other apps too. You see that Chase app in the demonstration? Yeah, you probably won't be getting that either.
  • No way - non CPU intensive apps will be written in .net. You've got to really need performance to write in C++. Games aside I doubt anything will use native C++ other than to reuse current code.
  • exactly
  • Precisely why I have not upgraded my V1 WP7 Focus to this point. I suspected based on the fact that they would not come out and say they would upgrade all phones that they would not be completing a full upgrade to the current line of users.
    Anyone who is disappointed though to me should probably check those emotions because WP7.5 is already sexy and smooth and what we saw this morning looks awesome for the start screen etc in WP8. I bet there will still be tons of apps for current handset users who eventually upgrade to 7.8.
    Enjoy the ride everyone!!!
  • Will the dvp get the update? I highly doubt it.
  • Haha my 2year contract runs out november-October some time so I think it works out well for me :P sorry other people! And it was obviously going to be something like this we all knew duel core ect. Was coming so obviously we weren't going to be able to run everything WP8 could so im happy that they at least gave us that new awesome home screen among other things no doubt and don't forget people its still more love than people that have bought apple products receive when an upgrade is released haha :P
  • How do you figure this?  When the iPhone 4S came out with iOS 5, the iPhone 4 and 3GS were able to update to iOS 5, as well.  True, the older hardware didn't get Siri, but there was a 16 month gap between the iPhone 4 and the iPhone 4S.  Estimates are that there will be a seven month gap between the Lumia 900/Titan II and a Windows Phone 8. 
    To me, it seems like Apple users get the love while Windows users got the door with a nice wave (home-screen change, really?!) bye-bye.
  • Like you said, older hardware didn't get everything out of the update. And the reason iPhone 4 didn't get Siri wasn't even hardware related! The only thing current phones will be missing out on (excluding support for new hardware features, duh) are apps written using native code but that's actually also a hardware problem so there is not much anybody can do about it. Yes it sucks but it would always suck, no matter when they would have done it. What did you expect, that they wouldn't release or even sell any phones for a year so that no people feel left out? No matter when they had done it, there would alwas have been people who would have just bought a phone, just like there probably are people you will buy an iPhone 4s a month before the iPhone 5 is released. They had to do it sometime, better to do it now than later.
  • Yes bc the goal is to have the best experience on there OS
  • I think I'm comfortable with 7.8. My main issue was hearing what was to come from the horses mouth. I have that now and my Lumia 900 still rocks. Did I miss if either platform is getting notification?
  • What features do we get exactly? Do we get ye new maps and turn by turn at least? I really feel shafted. Probably get an iPhone next time seeing how ios 6 still supports all the way up to the 3GS, apple has better legacy support than MS. I think Microsoft should offer a 100$ credit to recent purchasers of Windows Phone for sticking them in this situation.
  • Do you know how to read? We get everything WP8 is getting except for NFC and native code apps.
  • That's not what's being reported by Paul Thurrott today (one of the original people who reported months ago that no existing devices will get the upgrade)... He's specifically saying only new Start Screen, tile sizes, and Windows Update (no more carrier blocking updates) will come to WP7.8.
     
  • Sounds good to me. We will still be able to run WP8 apps so long as they don't use native code, and of course we can't take advantage of new features based on new hardware.
    Nobody should be disappointed really. They've brought WP 7.x devices up to par as much as possible to WP8.
  • I think you're underestimating what apps can't run in WP7.8. In addition to DirectX games written in native code, apps that are written for the WinRT API (the API for Metro apps) will also not run on WP7.8. This means most new apps will not run on WP7.8 because developers will choose the newer API which supports code sharing between WP8 and Win8, vs the legacy Silverlight API which only runs on WP7.x.
    A good portion of existing WP7.x apps will likely update to take advantage of new tile sizes. But IMO the devs will soon focus development on WinRT.
  • Is this definitely the case? I would have expected 7.8 will include support for apps written in .net using the later environment, just excluding specific featured and native code. Just postulating though.
  • http://www.wpcentral.com/microsoft-officially-announces-windows-phone-8   Daniel Rubino clearly writes (and I quote) "Moreover, applications for Windows Phone 7.x will automatically run on Windows Phone 8 with little or no changes to the code of the app.  Apps coded on Windows Phone 8 will conversely run on Windows Phone 7.x as well so long as they don’t use native coding"
  • The only biG problem I see, is current users not being able to run native apps. When the big name apps start showing up, people who bought their phone today (2yr) contract, will not be able to play those games four/five months from now when they are released. This is the only big problem I see. All the new big games will keep showing "your device is not supported" on phones they buy today and up until wp8 is released.
  • This is fine I was planning to pay full retail for my next phone anyway so I can keep my unlimited data anyway hopefully by the fall Verizon releases something
    New
  • From my understanding current Windows Phoners get the new Start Screen only? No other new features of Windows Phone 8?
  • Just because you CAN upgrad to WP7.8 doesn't necessarily mean AT&T is going to LET you upgrade to it!  I know they're no longer supporting a LOT of WP7 devices, so it's just a matter of months before the Titan II and Lumia are tossed aside by them.
    Sounds like the long-time WP users are getting a little screwed over on this deal.
  • According to one of Paul Thurrott's posts, MS will push 7.8 directly to devices - totally bypassing carriers (about time).
  • @paschott - that's brilliant!
  • I don't care what Paul says.  The carriers will NEVER allow that to happen.
  • They already do allow it -- for iOS. Apple pushes updates whenever they want to. Is Microsoft not big enough to work out the same deal?
  • I think it makes sense. I was always going to upgrade anyway for NFC, high res display etc.
  • It's ok. I would have liked to have WP8, but 7.8 still seems pretty good. I just wish it will have Smart Glass to connect to my XBOX and my future Surface Pro!!!
  • I think MSFT can go a long way by pushing 7.8 much sooner than WP8 since it doesn't require the hardware upgrades/changes.  This will probably make current users (myself included) happier and if I really like what I see I'll bite the bullet (who am I kidding, I'm doing it anyway...) and upgrade contract free for a WP8 device.
    I do however find it a terrible marketing strategy to push the Lumia 900 as heavy as Nokia, MSFT and AT&T did while also stating it will be obsolete in less than 8 months time.  A flagship phone should be a phone that performs optimally for the length of a contract.
  • can't upgrade from my L900 until spring 2014 (!) *sigh* WP9, maybe
  • The solution that nobody wants to hear is to not take the discounted price and subsidize the cost of your phone over a 24 month contract.  Your $199 (now $99) Lumia 900 was/is really a $600 or $700 device.  It's not MS's fault the entire cost model for purchasing cell phones was botched from the start...blame the carriers for that.
  • Are those non-US prices? I paid $449 no-commitment from AT&T.
  • man, some of you are hillarious.  we get an update...a major one, and you are still pissed.  I have a lumia 900, and yes, i wish i could get all the bits, i am still excited about WP7.8.
     
  • Agreed!
  • This is hardly a major update.  This is cosmetic config file changes, sorry support a lot of Unix machines at work,  to wp7.5 to just look like wp8.  There is absolutely no under the hood work for CE.  Titan 1&  2, Lumia 710,800, 900 and the current Samsung phones are dead ends. 
  • I imagine now we can watch all the momentum with the Lumias fall off a cliff until WP8 hits. I wasnt expecting a full upgrade for my Lumia but was hoping for everything that wasnt hardware dependent. Oh well I was planning on getting a new phone once WP8 hit anyway.
    I agree could have still called it WP8 lite or something for the upgrade.
  • No one EVER said the 1st & 2nd Gen devices were getting the upgrade.  if you ae pissed off because you bought a Lumia 900 "hoping" it would get WP8, then you are a fool.  I bought one, knowing it wouldnt get WP8, but its a great phone, and when my contract renews, guess what, i will get the latest and greatest WP phone at that time...
    Just be glad that we are getting an upgrade, we could be like Android and take a year to roll it out, or not get it at all.
  • What it seemingly comes down to is the single processor. In theory, 7.8 would be fair for 1st gen devices such as my Omnia7 but not for 2nd gen such as the Lumia range. Sadly this won't be the case. I will buy a new WP8 but it is nice to know whoever I give my Omnia7 to will get a good experience; those who have 2nd gen phones, I think you're right to feel a little aggrieved.
  • Meh. As an omnia 7 user I am not too upset. Had I taken the plunge on a lumia 900 I might feel a bit more aggrieved. But then this was to be expected right? I will wait for next gen windows phones before upgrading.
  • I think it's a fair traid Great Job MS keep it comming.
    Cheers.
     
  • Satisfied? Not really. With the exception of the screen size there's not really anything in the hardware requirements for Window 8 on ARM that isn't in my HTC HD7 or Lumia 800. So why WP8 needs new hardware's a bit of a mystery. As a developer I've now got two different Windows Phone platforms to support. Since WinRT and Silverlight have less in common than MS would have you think. I think the current updates in work for my apps will be the last on WP7 & I'll focus on W8 & WP8.
  • I totally agree. I'll upgrade existing apps to support new tile sizes, then probably not much more than that. Effort will then be focused on porting them to WinRT.
  • Seems fair enough.  Existing hardware can't support more than the Start Screen.  Only fear is if app development for 7 will stall, as 8 has more native code, etc.
  • Unless they come up with a way for my Lumia 900 to keep getting new apps,  no I'm not satisfied.  I've been using WP7 since the day the HD7 launched on T-Mobile, and now my Lumia 900, which will be approx. 6 months old when WP8 comes out, will likely not get any additional updates beyond 7.8 and will see few new apps.  Why did I leave Android again?  
  • Would you rather not get an update at all? Stop being an entitled brat
  • This isn't being an entitled brat.  This is watching the "ecosystem" getting splintered into people with a robust app selection to a dead end ecosystem.  That screeching halt you heard, was development for Windows CE/7.5 apps.  Micrsoft could always compound their mistake by throwing good money after bad money to try to keep 7.5's ecosystem on life support but what company is stupid enough to do that? 
  • The ecosystem will be fine, who cares about apps? Integrated features are better
  • Why did you buy a lumia so soon? I've had my HD7 since launch and still have it. Know why? Because I know the hardware our phones have can only do so much and I knew by the time WP8 came out that I would want a device that could support everything it had to offer.
  • +1
  • Man!!! MS should have supported at least 2nd Gen WP devices with 1.4+GHz processors.
    Also so far no mention of some kind of notification center, so all missed notifications of not tiled apps can be seen.
    MS, listen to the users!!!
    // chall3ng3r //
  • This is bad for existing customers. You will get a bit of window dressing but the core feature which is native code is missing. So apps will be easier to be ported from other systems but you won't be able to run them. The excuse that existing devices can't run win8 is BS. The iPhone 3GS can run iOS5 and thats single core with 256mb of memory. Microsoft has shafted it's customers again.
     
  • We are not shafted, would you rather not get an update at all?
  • Nope. You fail to realize that WP8 has a new kernel, while iOS 1-6 have never changed the kernel
  • Exactly. The only thing you can say is that it is unfortunate that they chose to change the kernel but if it has to be done, I'd rather have it sooner than later. No matter at which point they did it, changing the kernel would always be a pita but all in all I think current users are off just fine.
  • They need to pay for peoples with 2nd gen devices upgrades fees $200 would be a nice start
  • This is fine by me. At least some apps for wp8 will also run on Wp7.8. You can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs. Really looking forward to the update hitting mu NL800 :)
  • This is not technically correct. WP7 apps written in Silverlight/XNA will also run on WP8. Apps written for WP8 are written in WinRT/DirectX, which won't run on WP7.8. While it's true that developers can target Silverlight/XNA when they write new apps, chances are they will target WinRT instead to get a common code base between Win8 and WP8. New apps support on WP7.8 looks bleak, IMHO as a developer.
  • Lumia 900 owner and pissed. If there wasn't a complete divide of app support id be fine with just not being able to install apps that use NFC and so on. But no, this screws us.
  • You'll be fine. Nokia will still be updating their phones to get as much as the wp8 experience as possible.
  • I have a Lumia 900, and I think this approach is fair by Microsoft. So im not upset, but will be selling my phone for an Apollo device. Cheer up guys. This was the only way! At least they acknowledged us. They didn't have to do anything.
  • It's exaclty what I expected. I wanted to buy an unlocked cyan Lumia 900 to run on Bell knowing that it would likely not get the full WP8 but I was not able to get one. I guess I'll wait for WP8 now but I still wouldn't rule out buying an unlocked Lumia 900 in cyan to do me becuase that is how much I want to move on from my HD7.
  • I think it's fair. It would be nice to get everything on the current phones, but some is better than nothing.
  • I'm ready for a bit of a conspiracy since I love them...WP8 gets a ton of press in the next few days with the caveat that current phones can't upgrade but will get 7.8.  In a week or so Nokia announces that the upgrade will work (just not NFC) with the 900 giving their sales a shot in the arm.  Now if I only had a magic bullet...
  • If only that turns out to be the case.... Would definitly make Lumia owners a bit happier and I could totally do without NFC support right now.  I can deal with missing the hardware security for wallet, too. Wait and see for several months down the road, I guess. :(
  • Before I spend on a new device, I will invest in a new Surface tablet. My phone provides me with more than enough data and features. Anything else is a bonus.
  • The new WP8 apps won't work on current devices, right? So we are left out of the ecosystem from now on?
  • Yes, it is a burning platform now.
    And what's worse it's not only bout new apps but also about updates for existing apps.
    Because lets face it: Most developers will port their existing WP7 apps to WP8 RT framework which is inompatible with WP7's silverlight framework but works on WP8 as well as WindowsRT 8 and Windows 8. So porting to RT framework makes lots of sense for developers. And then the developers basically have to maintain two different platforms for updates: silverlight and RT. And silverlight only has about 2% marketshare but RT is the future.
    So I'm pretty sure that after maybe 6 months developers will just quit supporting also the silverlight framework with updates as this is a lot of more work but generates very little income compared to the RT framework.
    So future updates for poular apps (like WhatsApp for example) will only appear for WP8.
  • http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Windows-Phone/Summit for the video, someone was asking
     
  • I hope 7.8 gets the Nokia maps too :O
  • i think it's fair. I understand that new technology that works with new hardware is not going to completely work for my phone. The hardware is not there, but I'm glad quite a bit of features including the new start screen will be part of older phones. 
    Most people are stuck with contracts but I'm pretty sure deals will rise. 
    I'm actually very excited about windows 8 now. Time to start saving.
  • I can see why this has come about, after all current windows phones dont have the hardware thats needed for Windows Phne 8 many new features. Its ok for many early adopters, but not good for people in the last 6 months have purchased a new Lumia device for example...Though the OS will get upgraded and look and feel like Windows 8, you will soon find that you are not getting the apps that will become more available, nor VOIP stuff....
     
    Oh well, my upgrade is November, perfect timing... 
  • This is fine with me. We can't expect an updated OS to take advantage of hardware that our phones simply don't have.
  • So we won't be able to download new apps made for wp8 when it's released later this year on our current handsets?
  • Lumia 900 owner as well and pretty disappointed. Seeing the multitasking feature now and knowing that there's no native code support in this partial upgrade makes me think that this is a pretty limited upgrade. Even their casual game from Big Fish seemed to require the new code support so what does that say about existing users?
    I completely understand not being able to support the hardware dependent features, but losing the things that are really software dependent hurts quite a bit. Definitely will hold off on upgrading my wife's phone as she'll love some of those new features. For me, my next phone will likely be bought at full price because MS isn't quite giving us everything we need for existing customers.
    I do appreciate that the update will supposedly be pushed in a way that bypasses the carriers, though. That's a nice touch.
  • Kind of a drag to not get new apps when devs start using the new SDK, but I install a new app on average once every few weeks. This is a much better solution than what Palm/HP did to original Pre owners. In that situation, the company went public saying that all legacy devices would get the next OS version. A few months later, they reversed and said there would be no upgrade path for legacy devices. They really screwed a lot of people and they knew it, which is why they tried to "make it right" by offering a $50 credit on the TouchPad.
     
    I think most people know full well that when they buy a phone there's a good chance it will lose support at some point. Look at Android for an example. Most users are still on an operating system that is 2 versions old. There is now talk about version 5 being released while version 4 is only available to a few handsets. I'll gladly take this scenario over waiting a year for an update only to hear that the OEM or carrier won't push the update. As long as Nokia keeps improving the firmware for the 900, I'll be happy.
  • This is a fine compromise. A large part of the commenters on this thread and over at The Verge need to stop their whinning. Did you really expect to get full WP8 when they are making massive HARDWARE changes? we will get the software changes for the most part, which is better then nothing at ALL, which is exactly what most android phones get. 
    I don't hear all the bitching and whinning going on with android when they release a phone, that is outdated in a few months when a OS upgrade comes out that they won't get.
  • I bought my 900 fully expecting not to get WP8. I plan to buy a WP8 phone right when they come out too! I'll give my 900 to the woman or my daughter.
     
    I knew Microsoft wouldn't abandon the platform either. Honestly if upgrading existing phones to WP8 would hold the platform back I would be much less happy than how it turned out.
  • Good point and in all honesty I will be getting the WP8 when it comes out also...
  • When I broke my contract ($180). I switch from Sprint (HTC Arrive) to AT&T for the Lumia. I knew then I would get a WP8. I'll just wait for what ever Nokia comes out with. It will probably come after Christmas anyway. Shot...I wasted more money on stuff that I can't show. At least this something I will carry around everyday.
  • And who says there won't be custom wp8 roms for the Legacy devices?
  • Bad for me...i just got my phone and it is now a legacy device... Hard to wait 18 more months for the new OS. Guess wp7 device sales will now plummet due to this announcement.
  • Well, this is a huge let down. Lets face it. Lumia 900 users should be disappointed...
  • Why? Did the specs of the L900 promise multicore support or higher resolution support or the ability to change kernels? I don't think so.
    Hardware upgrades come with new capabilities. I think people were expecting too much from their current devices which were never mentioned or promised.
    Nokia has been "johnny on the spot" in addressing problems with their current devices by acknowledging the concerns of the user and issuing fixes for them as soon as they were able. How many iOS or Android users can claim that?
    My significant other is still waiting for ICS for their Galaxy Note and Xoom tablet. Even after writing Google a number of times.
    This compromise is suitable for me right now until I'm able to upgrade to a newer device. And depending on what other features I'll receive OTA, I may hold off altogether.
    It's not like you all have buyer's remorse because none of the older models are receiving any type of update. Let's just wait to see what the update brings before issuing condemnations for MS & Nokia.
  • So, what's better?  Being offered an update that is numbered slightly different from the next big upgrade (WP7.8) or being offered an updated titled WP8 that doesn't get you all the 'goodies' of WP8?  Basically one route is what Microsoft is doing, the other is what Apple does (if I'm understanding their update philosophy).
     
    I prefer being given AN update for my almost 2 year old Focus, that doesn't tout itself to be 'all' of what WP8 does, as opposed to being given a WP8 'update' with a bunch of asterisks of what my phone cannot do.
     
    Stinks for L900 users though....
  • For me, i knew the risk going in, so i am not bothered so much.  I just hope we get ScreenShot. 
  • Totally agree with this summary although as a brand new l800 owner I am still happy.
  • How can any WP7 user recommend their Lumia to any user (other than to try sell it on),
    Nokia and MS have wasted a ton of advertising money on the Lumia range, I wonder if it was to shift a warehouse full of shite legacy handsets that no-one will want to buy as the support will stop when WP8 comes out
  • For me, i didnt recommend the phone to my friends.  I told them to wait for wp8. 
    No need to recommend a phone that i know may not get fully supported with an upgrade, i'd be lying to them.  I like my lumia and that is good enough for me.  My friends asked about my phone and was consdiering getting one.  I said if you want, but i told them to wait. 
     
     
  • Easy. The Lumia 900 is still a great phone. Win 8 may be better, but that doesn't diminish my excellent experience. At this point, I'd probably say to hold off as long as they can for 8, but if they must upgrade NOW due to a broken phone or what have you, I still would pick my Lumia 900 over Android or iOS. 
  • No. Just no.
    Nokia/MS are building a brand. They have gotten nothing but good press from the Lumia line. If you think a new Lumia that runs WP8 won't be there at launch you are crazy.
    It's just like Verizon did with the Droid line. Do you think they tell customers when they walk in the store that a new phone in the Droid line is only 3-6 months away? No, they don't.
    Even iphones keep selling after the yearly announcement of a new hardware revision. Why? Because people always need phones and may not be able to wait for a certain time frame, or they don't keep up with tech news (Which is most people).
  • No problem guys..we still have xda-developers ;-)
    Remember the old htc hd2? Our legacy phone will get the apollo xda-dev way. :)
  • I have no problem with not having 8 if 7.8 looks the same and the vast majority of apps will work. I might miss out on the latest and greatest games but that is progress. The .net apps will work just fine so I'm happy. It's a very big task running two different versions so hats off to MS for the update but I suppose it is what they are very good at. The appeal of a shared kernal between tablets, pcs and phones is very appealing!
  • I'm ok with it.  It used to be you had to buy a whole new phone to get any new features.  Upgradable phones are a fairly recent phenomena.  Plus, my current HTC Trophy does everything I need it to right now.  Waiting another year to upgrade to a Windows 8 phone just doesn't bother me.  I have a great phone right now that will get me though the wait.
  • Genuine decision made by Microsoft for legacy devices
  • Hey Nokia!!!! How is this different from Symbian??? Ecosystem with no apps in the future. If i lived in Espoo I'd be throwing my lumia to Nokia Headquarters. Don't buy lumia should be trending topic. No matter what everybody says I feel deeply betrayed and I'm sure I'm not the only one. 
  • I disagree - .net apps will be compatible and thus the majority of apps will work.
  • "majority of the apps" Should I feel o.k. with majority with a brand new phone? And don't tell me I'm an idiot because I didn't wait, here in Europe when your contract is over it's over and you get a new phone (at least in spain), Ooops did I say a new phone, I meant a "legacy" phone. Yes I'm pissed and hope nokia goes bankruptcy. To be honest, all I wanted is a decent whatsapp, skype, IM+ or any other instant messagin' experience and with no native support I'm not gonna get it. If I was ugly and with no GF, I'd be cryin'. It's symbian all over again.
  • I doubt windows8/wp8 apps will run on 7.8, since its altogether a different kernel. The 7.8 update may still be a CE kernal, unlike w8/wp8's NT kernel.
     
    The only sure thing right now is that you'll get to resize tiles in 7.8.
  • WTF! What about those of us who want to upgrade our Android devices to WP8? Is that going to be WP 7.9? Ha,ha.
  • Very idiotic thing to say
  • Thank you. Coming from you that means a lot. How's your Swype keyboard doing?
  • Don't need it dumbfuçk
  • Windowsphone has to move on fast & this is what's happening now. They can't wait until new customers contracts run out before moving forward. That would just not make sense in the dog eat dog mobility world. For those of you who bought the Lumia, why didn't you do as I did & patiently await WP8 & the new devices that will come with it. I know Lumia owners will be pissed but don't say you are not being catered for. I too would have liked a Lumia but it was too big a gamble. It appears now my patience has been rewarded. Bring on WP8!
  • Honestly, I didn't wait as I simply couldn't stand my horribly broken (and not rooted) Android. Too many updates killed the device and I couldn't take it anymore. However, I rarely get new apps for my phone now anyway and I'm not a bandwagon app guy, so I really don't mind.
    I'm very happy with my Lumia 900 purchase, and still will be when this finally releases. By the time I'm able to upgrade to 8, It'll have all the kinks worked out and most likely be a second or third gen 8 phone, possibly up to 9. I agree with their decision to move forward, I think it's a great move to have Win 8, Xbox Smartglass, and Win Phone 8 all coming around the same time (right in time for the holidays, no less), and am happy they are still going to throw current Win Phone customer a bone. I just hope this bone doesn't ruin our phones either. :) 
  • Quite good. What about the wi-fi auto sleep.?
  • Think the biggest problem for current owners is missing out on more app support, especially those that can run in background. I don't see why Microsoft can't invest a little more and put the kernel on existing devices even if we can't take advantage of multicore and NFC at least we could have the same apps, or at least some of the apps; like what they did with Tango. It is really annoying to think that next year WP8 users may have popular apps like Instagram while WP7.8 users can't even run it because of the kernel and what that brings over. That's what bugs me the most. I think Microsoft should seriously think it through and at least offer 50$ credit or something to recent purchasers. I think with this news out there were going to see a drop of app support and also sales. Who in their right mind would offer a WP7.5 device now when WP8 is around the corner, definitely no sales associate would advocate that. The 7.8 update is nice, buy it just isn't the right solution.
  • FU Microsoft you just lost a loyal follower, you have just made all current WP handsets ffing worthless , just got my titan and seriously pissed off fu fu fu.
  • Be quiet cry baby has go ahead leave and go for other crappy phones. What you worried you will get same windows phone look
  • The same ffing look won't make the ffing apps for wp8 work will they .
  • With 7.8, you're really getting all of the features that are non-hardware related. The stuff left out are things that wouldn't work on your phone anyway. Hope this helps make you feel a little better.
  • Glad I didn't upgrade I had a feeling this was going to happen.
  • I'm very okay with it. It sounds like they're doing everything they possibly can without ruining the phone, which is a lot more than I can say about Apple and Android.
    I had an Android Galaxy S that started with Eclair. It ran fine. They threw it an upgrade to Froyo, that slowed it down considerably and made the OS more unstable. They threw an upgrade to Gingerbread, and it essentially killed the device, only 20 months after I had it.
    To be honest, I never expected them to throw an OS designed for better hardware onto older phones. They want Everyone's experience to be great, and MS just seems to KNOW better than that. I would much rather prefer this than Apple's "latest upgrade now says your phone is 4G, when it still has a 3G radio installed and we don't offer a 4G phone yet" shenanigans.
    In this day and age, as I've learned from experience, never expect and be very wary of upgrades. If your phone isn't desgined for it, it may behoove you to stick with your current version. If they offer an upgrade that works perfectly with your phone, well thats just a bonus, not an expectation. 
    MS - Please don't have this update mess with how slick my 900 is. I really enjoy it and don't want to see it messed up. 
  • So my hd7 is fucking useless then pissing Microsoft again fuckwits
  • Calm down, you get the same features, what's your problem
  • You'll get to enjoy all the features your phone can support. Anything left out is stuff that won't run anyway.
  • Really? You're complaining that your HD7 which isn't even made by HTC anymore is not getting brand new hardware features and software? Your phone is far from useless and there's no way you can have an HD7 without being pretty close to an upgrade because the phone has been on life support for awhile now.
  • Boohoo you've only got 2 years of enjoyment out of it, and it will continue to work for years to come. It may not get all the awesomeness of WP8, but it will still work as a phone, still connect to the internet and still have 100,000+ apps available to it.
  • I'd say this is sufficient. I mean, there will obviously be hardware limitations, so it's nice to see they're trying to bring as much as possible to the older devices.
  • When is it available Dan? Any word from MS?
  • It's fair enough.  I think people buying 1.5 phones should get a major discount or ability to upgrade for free though.  I'd be pissed if I'm a 900 buyer knowing that in 3 or so months, it's that badly dated.  Will be waiting for a full on WP8 device for sure.
  • U mean I am stock in a 2yr contract and not be able to upgrade and take advantage. I am really pissed at MS. They are just being greedy. Knowing that the phones would need dual core it should have been installed long before
  • Oh oh, I see an ocean of windows 7 devices on Craigslist!
  • Yes I agree and can't wait for wp 7.8 upgrade
  • I am excited about WP again, finally. I think giving us 7.8 for current devices is a good enough way of killing off WP7 devices, and most likely they won't have to do this again since this new architecture is more modern and flexible and should hopefully lead to an upgrade system more similar to Apple's for the iPhone.
    I will be happy to upgrade my HTC Radar to 7.8 and live on that for a while until a really nice WP8 phone is available - one I'll be happy with for a year or two.
  • That is it!
    I will be glad too to upgrade my Radar to 7.8 and wait for a great WP8.
  • Slap in the balls really, cheers for the 7.8 offer how about ram it and give me WP8 can't believe my brand spanking new Lumia is already classed as a legacy device. But hell im stuck with this on contract. So might as well get on with it. Anyway how about a mobile version of surface device?
  • everyone here Mad be quiet at least Microsoft has not forgotten current users. Also at least we will get same new look of windows 8
  • Hate!!! Microsoft: U r doing ur best to loose me as a loyal customer..
  • It's just fair enough, the company has to move forward Os wise, hardware wise and resolution wise. We too just have to upgrade either now or sometimes in future.
    Overall, I am impressed with what Microsoft is doing lately.
  • I, being a gen 1 Focus owner,  think this is a good compromise because there are certain things that are just not possible with older gen hardware. However, I can also understand the frustration from the Lumia and other newer gen owners because only a few months into owning the product, they now have a device that cannot fully upgrade to WP8. I think most of the frustration will be resolved if they manage to offer natively written apps in a format that's compatible with current phones. I truly feel this would appease the masses.
  • Well put fellow sooner fan
  • Boomer Sooner! :)
  • Any tech blog/site should revise their reviews of current WP7 devices and caution consumers to not buy them.  While its silly for poeple like original Samsung Galaxy Tab owners to cry about not getting ICS,  it isn't unreasonable for people to expect their newly launched device to work with a 6 month software update.  Microsoft just created an ecosystem that leaves current WP7 users out (Sorry leaves them with a new Launcher).  So most of the marketshare gained by new WP7 users can be potentionally lost when their phone contract is up.  I don't know who this is worse for, new lumia 900/ Titan II buyers or Microsoft.  
    If one doesn't buy a Windows 8 tablet or computer before their phone contract is up, what is holding them back from switching platforms?  For the record, I own a Lumia 900 that I purchased from ebay, and am due for a phone upgrade through my carrier in January.
     
  • So The Nokia Comercials were right... The SmartPhone Beta test is over... Anyone who uses a Windows Phone 7.5 Device was just beta testing for Windows Phone 8...!!!
    I was planning on getting a WP8 Device anyways....
  • Knew this was going to happen and I'm not upset about it and plan to buy a WP8 anyway but everyone else needs to shut the fúck up and be glad you're at least getting an update.
  • Goodbye MicroSOFT. I'm definitely going to Iphone after I brick my lumia 800. You guys disappoint me once again.
  • Yes, because Apple's support for old hardware is SOOOO much better. Just because they say you get iOS5 doesn't actually mean you get all of iOS5.
  • I know how you feel. I was upset too when Apple told me that my iPhone 3G couldn't support voice control or record video with iOS 3.0. That's why I'm a WP7 user now actually. Unfortunately, I've come to the realization that this is the new normal when it comes to technology. Shelf lives of phones and tablets are going to eventually shrink from years to months. And it's probably only going to get worse as the market gets more competitive. Probably means that the carrier industry needs to rethink the subsidization model as well.
  • I do feel sorry for people that have only just bought their Windows Phone 7.... This is a hard blow for people that have only had their phone for a few months and have a two year contract.
    I do hope Microsoft ensure that the apps dont dry up for the Windows Phone 7. 
    Still... ensuring there is an update for phone so thats is really good. It means many people can ride out . I am exciting for the update. 
    These Windows 8 Phone are still a fair way off. Nokia have wroked hard to bring more to the phone and I am sure they will continue to support WP7 for some time.
    Good to know the future will be stable on Windows Phone 8. No fragmentation on Windows Phone 8 :P
  • The caveat is apps developed specifically for WP8 won't run on WP7.8. I bet unless it really needs to leverage the new hardware, most of the apps will be made to be compatible with WP7.8. This shouldn't be as big an issue as we're making it right now.
  • Usually they let you upgrade a little pass one year. I got my 900 at launch....so by the time WP8 launched I only have to wait a few months...no big deal!
  • I think it's great. I get a mini update on my HTC Trophy before deciding what Apollo handset I go for.
  • Personally I use HD7 and don't feel upset about not getting WP8 update. But it definitely hurts Lumia users and Windows Phone's future sale.
    It will stop Windows Phone's momentum from now on, and MSFT has to build up the momentum again for WP8 in a more unfriendly market. Furthermore, current users will distrust MSFT with regard to WP's update path. How many people who purchase WP7.5 devices recently with 2-yr contract will believe they won't be screwed again when WP9 is released and happily buy WP8 devices?
  • Thank goodness we don't have a contract system in India.
  • 7.8 is useless if WP8 apps won't run on it.
  • Maybe there won't be so many WP8-exclusive apps at least for a while. As long as developers still want the legacy (I hate to use this term) userbase, they will avoid using native code as possible.
    However, if Windows 8's strategy suceed (i.e., users do use Metro for most of the time instead of always going back to desktop immediately), WP7.8 userbase will be negligible comparing to billions of Windows Run Time users. At the time, WP7.8 will be completely crippled.
  • I really can't say I'm satisfied until we get the whole list of features legacy device owners aren't getting. A new start screen? Ehh. I'm not going to throw a tantrum like some on here because I'm smart and realized we were probably not getting WP 8. I do sort of kind of feel bad for those who bought a lumia expecting it would be upgradeable but then again you should be diligent in your research when buying a new product. There were so many stories involving the upgrade status of current Gen devices it should have been a red flag. Regardless, I feel that Microsoft is going to run into some hate for this. And probably for the surface rt/pro confusion that is inevitably to follow.
  • Extremely happy with today's announcement. Hello dual core Windows Phone 8!!!!
  • I wish they'd have said more about what we will and won't be getting in 7.8. I thought Kevin Shields was going to enlighten us, but instead he crapped on about Nokia some more. Yes, I know he's from Nokia but I wanted to hear how it will affect the vast majority of us NOT on Nokia phones.
  • Multi-core, microSD, and NFC are obviously limited by hardware - but will we get IE10, Nokia Maps integration (for non-Nokia phones), and native code apps?
  • The article says native code apps aren't coming... but I didn't hear that in the presentation?
  • I'm going to be honest, as big of a fan that I am of WindowsPhone(Currently rocking the Cyan Nokia Lumia 900), I am not liking this "new" home screen at all.
  • That's fine - you can keep it looking exactly the same as WP7. It won't affect you at all.
  • agreed. i want my off-centre and arrow back
  • Simple solution to that. after you update, Make all icons size "LARGE".
    You will feel like you never updated as far as the home screen layout goes.
  • Lumia 900 owners! Did we really expect an upgrade to Apollo after reading the device specs? Yes and no, but it's still a solid device. Glad I bought mine off contract but after having all those issues w the capacitive buttons, purple hue I have learned my lesson to wait before adoption. Sigh..
  • This announcment means nothing for AT&T customers.  We all know AT&T will not deliver any updates on their Windows phone.  My HTC Titan is missing 3 updates since January that AT&T will not release.
  • I believe this update will be a combo one? :D
  • According to Engadget - "The update will be delivered directly to users, sidestepping carriers, and can be done over WiFi.".
    Link: http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/20/microsoft-unveils-windows-phone-7-8-f...
  • That's it Microsoft. I have defended this plattform long enough. You forced all manufactures to stick to one processor for what? Nothing. I bought an Optimus 7 in 2010, I bought an Lumia 800 in 2011. Guess what I will get next? An iPhone. At least Apple get their updates right and I know I invest money in a phone that won't be outdated in a few months. 
    I don't care about the 7.8 update, I just read that new apps may not be backwards compatible. I can't believe they are so stupid to create a new plattform just to throw over everything with the next version. I thought otherwise but this company is really directed by monkeys.
  • Seeya! Don't let the door hit your arse on the way out!
  • I'm not a hater: I like Windows Phone, I like my Lumia and I defended this plattform again and again. I rant because I think it's stupid to build up a new plattform like they did with Windows Phone 7 and then change everthing again (under the hood) with the next version. Do they really know what they do in the long term?
  • I think the reality is that they did know this 3 years ago, when they wanted to do WP7. The problem was that W8 was still 3 years away and they needed to get their WP platform up and running sooner than later. They only had Windows CE to work with and so that's what they launched a year later. All of the advanced features, even multi-core CPU's, would have to wait until W8 kernel was ready. Now 2 more years on the W8 platform is finally ready to be rolled out across the board - mobiles, tablets, PC's, Xbox's all unified on one platform. 
    I want WP8 because I want it to work with everything else that I have, or will own (Xbox, PC, possibly tablet). I will never own a Mac or an iPad, so the iPhone has absolutely no appeal to me.
    It's an exciting time - the amount of apps available that will be available has absolutely exploded. The transition for a developer between Xbox and PC has been around for years - but now it's Xbox + PC + Tablet + Mobile. iOS & Android developers can port their existing apps to all of them at the same time... it's going to be VERY hard for developers to ignore and not to do everything they can to get on board.
  • You should understand that developers are more than likely going to support WP 7.8 and WP 8. Let's wait for more details to come through before jumping to conclusions.
  • Good luck getting a fully functional iOS update. Have fun with the same tired grid of icons and bland looking apps
  • You can please everyone... Looking forward to WP7.8 & WP8... Awesomeness!
  • My brand new Lumia 900 will be old and useless soon!! A big thanks to Microsoft and Nokia!! With love, soon to be former windows phone user
  • It won't be useless at all. If you're worried about app support, you can bet that developers will support WP 7.8 and WP 8. Besides, WP8 won't be released till the end of the year, with WP8 apps mostly likely hitting MarketPlace the year after. By then, your Lumia is already over a year old and nearing upgrade anyway.
  • Not sure why the software can't run on older hardware I mean if the chip ain't there it can't use some function should be scaleable plus why not let me do a clean install
  • I am very happy with my HTC HD7. Just wish Microsoft would detail what features are coming in the 7.8 update besides start screen.
  •  
    I don't think it is that fair, especially as they are still selling current devices at full price, under contract, and leaving most customers unaware. They are still releasing new handsets (like the 610) with no regard for consumers. They are hurting the OEM's and the customers.
    Those who purchased a 900 on contract won't be eligible for an upgrade until this time next year, which is ridiculous. Looking back at all the leaked stuff that came out in April regarding this they obviously knew this was their plan yet they decided to sell and market the 900. Either that or they did not tell their OEM's about this and let them spend money and time developing current devices. 
    This is either really poor planning by MS or just a dis-regard for their customers, either way those who support the platform the most (get new handsets when they come out) are the ones who are hurt by this.
    The proposed compromise is horrible, it puts Dev's in an awkward position and it stifles the growth of the current marketplace. Most developers will switch to the new SDK and will develop for the NT kernels, which means that either app functionality on 7.8 devices will be hit or miss, or those apps just won't exist for us.  
    I myself feel cheated, by all this, I am now locked in a 2 year contract, because I wanted to support Nokia and MSFT, won't get many new apps, and look like a jackass to all the people I’ve been convincing to try WP. So thanks MSFT. Unless they offer a hardware upgrade path for customers of phones bought this year(early renewal, discounted renewal price, or something similar), I don't know if I will support them going forward. 
    *rant over
  • Maybe I should be glad Verizon did not get the Lumia 900....because I would be stuck with a outdated phone.
     
    Getting a 7.8 update will be nice and will hold off most users for a while but at it's core, Window Phone 7.8 update is NOT Windows Phone 8.
     
    I am glad I got my HTC Trophy off contract.....
  • Something along the lines of 7.8 is what a lot of people (myself included) thought would happen. Although I dediced to hang on and not upgrade until WP8, I wouldn't be upset owning a Lumia 800/900/Titan II right now. It's a fair deal considering they'll essentially get the WP8 experience. . .
  • Excellent news I like my 900 and giving it the WP8 experience commensurate with current hardware is perfect until I update my phone later once I see Nokia WP8 phones as well as the other oems I will I will determine what device meets my needs
  • I think what they've done is a great compromise.  Microsoft needs to keep pushing Windows Phone forward to catch up to iOS/Android, so I don't want them expending a large amount of effort to get all the new features on phones that don't have what they need to take advantage of them.  Having the new Start screen is certainly something.  I bought my WP7 phone off of eBay so that if/when Verizon got better Windows Phones this year, I could do my contract at that point.  Verizon seems very interested in Windows Phone 8, so I'm happy about my choice.  I wonder if Santa will be able to fit both a Surface and a WP8 phone in his sack for me this year!
    Eric
  • The actual problem is with the TPM chip. someone told me about that issue a few months back but I thought Microsoft will be able to work around it. 
    This means the security features mentioned today (mainly for enterprises) are the real reason existing devices won't support WP8. 
    They could've released a version without the TPM related features or the NFC features that still delivered all the other additions. just like the release that added support for front facing cameras was released to all devices when most didn't have one
  • Exactly
  • I think its fair.. they did the same thing with the last IOS ( more or less) but do we have a launch date yet?!?!?!?!  
  • This is such a bad move by Microsoft. This platform is just starting to get momentum and you just screwed all existing users and made sure no one buys your devices in the next few months.
    At least they announced it early enough to save those people some money.
    Forget 7.8 with the start screen. Forget 18 months of updates for thw WP8 device I don't have. If I just got the Lumia 900 you were pushing so hard and I'm stuck with a 2 year contract, why would I stay with you when Apple's ios6 will run on the 3GS? that phone was out before you announced WP7...
    What existing users will want is a solution for upgrading, for cheap/or free, to a comparable WP8 device. Otherwise those great ratings on Amazon might start dropping (great phone, but 1 star because it's already obsolete)
    With Android, the lack of updates is usually the hardware company's fault. The fragementation there is caused by Google not forcing them to release updates for a window after launch. Here it's Microsoft itself. 
    And sure, all the new features will hide that fact since most of the stories on the web will be about the new stuff, but the reality is that for the second time in two years, MS is doing a reboot that hurts existing customers (only difference here is that the marketplace doesn't go back down to 0 apps)
    I hope the folks at XDA will help us with some WP8 ROMs for existing devices
     
  • "..when Apple's ios6 will run on the 3GS?" - only features that are compatible with the 3gs hardware will run, and I guarantee you the experience will be less than stellar. And this is coming from personal experience when I owned a 3GS and upgraded to iOS 4. The lack of new features didn't matter, the lagginess was unbearable.
    Similarly, in this case, all the features will will work on current gen devices are being packaged as WP 7.8. Except in this case, the user experience is also taken into consideration to make sure it looks and feels like WP8.
    If you're worried about lack of backward compatibility of apps, now that's a fairly legitimate concern. However, WP8 isn't being released till the end of the year. Even then, you can be sure that developers will support 7.8 and 8, unless they're only trying to leverage new hardware. Even that won't realistically happen until next year. By then, most current Lumia owners will only be months away from an upgrade.
    So, bottomline is it shouldn't be as big a deal as we're all making right now.
  • Maybe MS should have just called it 8.0 and then people would be happy.  Or maybe they could have done what Apple does and "upgrade" the old phones so they're so slow that they become unbearable.  I bought the 900 in April knowing that this was the likely scenario.  I do not understand the gritting and gnashing of teeth.  AT&T upgrades after 18 months or so and that will put me right in line for the WP9 phones next year.  For now, I have a phone that I love so much more than I ever loved my iPhone.  I would say the childish ranting is irrelevant, but in this case, MS actually does want the younger, less mature people to stay on board.
  • Wow, last month I decided Windows Phone would be a great development platform.  I paid an early renewal fee and purchased what I thought would be a great investment towards the Microsoft Platform, the Lumia 900.
    Now I'm paired with an obsolete phone that I can't even test native WP8 applications on for two years.  I'll be stuck with the simulator when the development environment is released.
    Thanks for nothing Microsoft.  I've already put the device on Amazon so I can try to make my early contract termination fee back.  Can't believe I had faith in your support for early adopters.
  • The lumia 900 isn't really early adopter. it's a 2nd gen device. which makes it being obsolete even worse.
    If you're still in the 30 day window, return the phone ASAP...
  • I'm on day 45 : (
  • Think about it this way - WP8 won't be released until towards the end of the year. That means it's perfectly realistic to expect developers to support WP 7.8 and WP 8 for quite a while. By the time WP8 specific apps start to gain traction, we should be well into next year. By then, most current new owners will be nearing their upgrade cycle. So, hopefully, this isn't as big a deal as it seems right now because there'll be a long period of time when apps will support WP 7.8 and WP 8. It may offer little consolation, but hope it makes sense!
  • @ousooner314...Been reading your comments - very reasonable, rational, and logical - wish there were even more comments like yours on every site regarding Windows Phone 8!
     
    I really hope that Daniel and Team weigh in on this in an editorial and echo your sentiments.
  • It's not just about the cosmetics, it's about the kernel, the core.
  • I'm kinda in a weird spot at the moment. I upgarded my phone to a Lumia 900 last week and cans till return it. The thing is I really love the phone and while it stinks that I may miss out on new apps and better resolutions, I also don't want to give up my Lumia. I just don't know if I should return it and wait and see if Nokia comes out with a phone that is similar to the way the Lumia 900 looks. 
  • You should return it. the new phones will be out in the fall, it's only a few months away.
    Nokia's design was a success, I'm pretty sure their WP8 will continue in that same design and this things usually get better, not worse...
  • Yeah I probably will end up returning and using my iPhone 4 for a little while longer. This really sucks I love Windows Phone btu now I'll have to wait to use it again. 
  • But you already accepted the resolution 'as is' when you purchased the phone.  Why is it a concern now?
  • I think it really depends on how quickly application developers move to building apps with Windows Phone 8 SDK.  From some peoples point of view that is the logical thing to due, but in reality isnt the most logical thing to do is to create Windows Phone 7.5 apps and let them run on Windows Phone 8 until thier are enough Windows Phone 8 devices in the market?
  • It depends more on the new APIs. If you want to use them, you'll create a WP8 app.
    The same thing happened with android, if you don't need the newer features you better target the older platform since no one updates (with ios, almost all devices are on ios5, according to some stats released)
    The best solution will be to put most of the code in a separate library that can be used by both platforms (some are already doing this for cross platform dev with MonoTouch) and just have different UI projects. 
    I'm sure MS will allow devs to release different versions of the app for the different platforms.
  • There is only minor coding involved to make apps cross over??? I fail to see how apps won't be developed for both systems unless the developer is lazy in which case I don't see Microsoft allowing at least not for two years from the day 7.8 / 8 is released. Im totally shit grin happy with my titan over my old android.. Great battery life and its so much more functional. Oh and as far as iphail supporting legacy devices.. IOS 6 seems to be burning through batteries and locking up the 3gs that try to run it.... And the mango update on the focus and hd7 still are handling good from what I've read right?
  • iPhail?? You mean the OS and Phones which are spanking Microsoft to pieces are rubbish in your eyes and a failure. You fool, another mindless drone trying to justify his purchase and be 'different'. Go back to your hole.
  • Does that mean that with every major WP OS release, current phones are gonna get 'phased' out just like it is now?
  • even if they did do wp8 for older phones, none of it would work. at least we old phone users get something.
  • The current situation Nokia is in, I'm surprised they aren't complaining yet.
  • Well, it will be hard for them to sell the current Lumia devices now, so the stock might drop even lower and at some point, Microsoft will have to buy them (because if someone else does, it might be just for patents and the lumia line might die)
  • I'm sure they're aware of what's going on. I find it hard to believe that OEMs weren't aware of this product timeline for months. I have a feeling Nokia may have some sort of strategy to handle this. We'll know for sure in the coming months.
  • When is it expected to arrive???
  • I was a little dissapointed to hear this news as I have not had my HD7 for a year yet and to find out that its not getting updated to WP8, maybe if I had it since launch, I might not be so bothered. Not everyone is going to be able to upgrade to WP8 due to various reason (price being mine).
    I have to say I am glad in the way that we are not being totally left out, at least we are getting something in relation to WP8, I am not too bothered about WP8 to Win8 native support apps and games for 2 reasons, I don't use my phone to play games, just the odd one thats current on WP7 and the other is I will not be upgrading to Win8 due to the fact that I am not willing to to upgrade all my hardware in my house to accomadate the touch screen etc. I also do not have the funds for a purchase a Win8 tablet.
    I do agree with a previous poster, I too would also like to know what current gen users are getting in regards to features other than the start screen etc.
  • I'm very excited that my HTC Titan and all of the other devices didn't get left behind.
  • Awesome. Nokia is awesome
  • According to Paul Thurrott 7.8 will include:
    "Start screen. The Windows Phone 7.8 Starts screen will be changed to look like that of Windows Phone 8. It will fill the entry screen with tiles, and not leave a strange “white space” gutter on the right side, as does Windows Phone 7.x. (This was apparently the source of some great number of user complaints, the theme being that Windows Phone doesn’t completely take advantage of its onscreen real estate. Commoners.)
    Tile customization. Windows Phone 7.8 will now support three tile sizes, just like Windows Phone 8, and not two like the current version. And apps can be written to support any of the three sizes, giving the user the ability to choose between them (as is done with Windows 8’s live tiles). In addition to the current Small (square) and Large (rectangular) sizes, Windows Phone 7.8 and 8 will also support a new Smaller size, which is a fingertip-sized square that is one-fourth the size of a small Tile. Mix and match as you please.
    Windows Update. Windows Phone 7.8 will be delivered directly to all Windows Phone users, bypassing the carriers. You will be able to download and install Windows Phone 7.8 over Wi-Fi, at home or wherever else, and install this update. This type of updating will be made available in Windows Phone 8, as well, as given my long, loud, and lengthy complaining about the lack of such updating in Windows Phone 7.x, you won’t be surprised, maybe, to discover that Microsoft jokingly calls this “the Paul Thurrott feature” internally."
    This is very fair when you look at the fact that current phones do not have multi core processors, higher ram, higher res screens, etc.
     
  • Those first two are the same one - the new start screen. Thurrott always gets confused though, so not surprising...
  • Well this is b.s. :( My lumia 900 is an archaic pos now!!!! I could careless about NFC...I only care about not getting good games for my for my lumia 900...i'm totally pissed right now.
  • i think what MS did was fair. i think it is better than being left out in the cold. i dont own a WP device yet almost pulled the trigger a couple of times but i just wanted to see what wp8 will bring. now that i have my answer i will be picking up a wp8 device when they do come out
  • Wow.  You sound like my 12 year old.  Very grown up.  I love the logic of a person who says a 2 month old phone is archaic simply because something newer is coming in 4 or 5 months. 
  • What the Fnck!!!  I just heard that Dodge is coming out with a new Caravan?!?!  The Caravan I'm currently driving is worthless!  The wheels are probably going to fall off!  It will cease doing everything that it's done for me up to this point!  It'll probably quit driving!  It was awesome and now this!
     
    Thanks a lot Dodge, screw you, you just lost a loyal customer! 
  • LOL!  Right to the point!!!!
  • that's exactly what I am hearing from the complainers.. well said...
  • They needed to pull an Apple and get AT&T to offer early upgrades for Lumia 900 and Titan II purchasers.  I think that would assauge anybody else who still feels burned by the limited scope of the 7.8 update, unless the consumer features of 7.8 include IE10 and the non-NFC parts of the Wallet Hub.
  • If I could upgrade to a WP8 phone at the fully-subsidized upgrade price, then I'd be very satisfied.  Doubt it'll happen, though.  Sigh.
  • I'm happy with that.
  • I'm actually really upset now. I just got my phone and now i have to go through the process of returning it and praying Nokia release a W8P that looks like the Nokia Lumia. Until then I have to use my shitty iphone. 
  • I guess its fair.. I just expected more exciting features... :/ Only Thing really amazing was Skype and the start screen.
  • I believe they stated that they were not going to talk about end-user features....this was more for devs than it was for the end-user.
  • Well this was expected... or what? people complaining expected microsoft to upgrade your phone hardware with an update? well... lol at you.
     
    Im glad they will bring the new start screen to windows phone 7.x users,  anyway windows phone 8 sounds really good, and hopefully i can have money for it. too many good stuff announced today.
  • I wasn't expecting my screen to suddenly display in 720P. I was expecting my Lumia 900 which I bought last week to be able to use Apps and features that would be released for the next two years until I could upgrade again. 
  • If you got it last week and really want WP8 you may still have time to return it... just saying...
  • So what "features" are you not going to be able to use?  You don't have a NFC chip in your phone and the screen is 720p as you noted, so what are you not going to be able to use?
  • Current users wont be able to use any apps that target new WinRT apis or native code - which will be the majority of the new apps. Welcome to a deadend ecosystem.
     
    I would call this worse than not getting any singular feature from wp8.
  • I get what you are saying and I understand the forward thinking but you then, are complaining about something that has not happened and may not happen.  I'm just looking at it from the other side.  Also just to point something out...not all apps on an iphone are availble to an ipad and vise versa....the same goes with android or blackberry if you want to throw that in there.
  • I'm looking at it from this side: Microsoft had a choice here - it would have been perfectly possible to come up with a WP8 kernel for current devices. They said in the presentation it is highly scalable (to the up- and to the downside). There will likely be WP8 phones with worse specs than some of the current phones. There will likely be WP8 phones w/o NFC, on low resolution, w/o SD-card and so on.
     
    They just chose not to do it and not to invest the ressources neccessary for this. Alienating existing high-end users, fking over Nokia's current lineup, killing the 7.x marketplace perspective, and bringing devs in an unpossible situation. Microsoft may have saved some money with this decision, but strategically it is a terrible choice in my opinion.
     
    Personally im not that affected, i got a cheapass 710. But people who bought a $500+ WP recently? Wont probably be the most loyal of customers..
  • First I LOVE Windows phone 8 and some of the integration and possibilities of integration with Windows 8. Second, if you are a fan of this site most of this stuff is not a suprise. We knew dual core was coming as well as NFC and Nokia Maps integration. So, since we knew hardware was going to get faster and better, I really didn't hink we were going to get 8. Particulalely if Microsoft really  moved the software forward. 
    I'm not happy that we didn't get WP8 but happy we were not forgotten. Most of all I LOVE where all this is going.
  • This is fair enough with the hardware restrictions on legacy phones. I am happy :-)
  • everytime these kiddy discussion about legacy phones, that won't get real Phone 8 update. jus wanna ask whether SIRI is working on 3GS or 4 devices? Same issue...no discussion.
  • What if the iPhone 4 is unable to run newer games because it's written in a different code & not because of outdated hardware? Siri is just one app.
  • I don't understand the people whinging about buying a Lumia on a 24 month contract. We ALL knew Apollo was coming and most likely would get a crippled experience. Why lock yourself into a 24 month contract at a time when Apollo was less than 6 months away from release (now 3 months)? I do feel sorry for people new to WP who would'nt know that, but for those who upgraded you've only got yourself to blame. My phone will be 18 months old when WP8 phones come out in 3 months. I'll either give my phone to a family member, or use it to test custom ROMs. I don't see any point in selling it... it's served me well! But then again I don't sell any devices - I still have my original C64, Amiga, Xbox, numerous PC's, and 3 mobile phones :)
  • Uh. Does my Gen 1 focus qualify for Wp7.8? I watched the summit and they said updates supported for 18months from LAUNCH. It will be longer than that when 7.8 gets released
  • That's for WP8 devices... they will continue to get updates for 18 months from their launch. 7.8 is a different kettle of fish and we should all get it. It's still not clear if the carriers still have to push it out, or if this will be completely up to MS.
  • Right, and they actually said "at least" 18 months.  More than likely wp8 phones will be supported for 2 years.  I think saying "at least 18 months" is a way of them protecting themself incase they can not do so for 2 years (which is the life of a new phone).
  • Thanks. I hope your right!
  • I just bought my Lumia 900 last month on a 2 year contract. I will get stuck with it with no updates for 2 years. Why couldn't they give us all the software updates? I don't need hardware specific features like NFC etc. Just give us all the updates that can run on current hardware. Also, they could've allowed the WP8 apps on current handsets. Going forward, when new WP8 will start to appear, we will be stuck with backdated apps. Is this how Microsoft treats their loyal and enthusiast early adopters? Good luck with attracting new users then. I had expected much better from them, seeing as they are underdogs in the smartphone market.
  • My sentiments exactly.
  • Not being able to group tiles will be a deal breaker for me
  • Of course it's fair. People expect Microsoft to offer the same experience on old phones as their new phones... what would be the point in that? People would just stick to their old phones. This is a good compromise - the start screen is a good (and iconic) feature of WP8 and I'll be happy with it for the first few months until I can get my hands on a new WP8 phone. Nokia or HTC, which should I go for?
  • http://olivermills6.wordpress.com/2012/06/20/windows-phone-8-announced/ Here's my blog on the big release.
  • I'd sleep better if MS confirmed that the new start screen is not the only new user feature in 7.8.
    I.e. the current lack contact sharing in wp7.5 is laughable. The could at least give us the sharing menu minus the "tap" method.
  • IE10 would also be nice. With some usability improvements. IE9 is fast but that's like the only good thing about it. Doesn't even have autocomplete for forms or login.
  • Only the app situation upsets me.
    It will suck never being able to get a new app after WP8 is released. No one will code WP7.8 apps anymore.
  • Yes that's my biggest worry also. No developer will do double work to release apps for WP7.8, so we'll be forever stuck with current backdated apps. Microsoft could've easily supported just the WP8 app APIs on current devices. But they couldn't care less about us. I'm sure they will regret this decision in the future. You can't anger your most loyal customers and get away with it.
  • Why would developers build apps that can only run on the new platform with far fewer potential customers. Release Windows Phone 7.X apps first and move development to Windows Phone 8 SDK when the deployed device count is higher and people have retired older phones.
  • Thats a little optimistic. I would rather think devs would stop NOW to put work into 7.x apps (except those who are sponsored by MS or Nokia), wait for WinRT and then start again. Why would they maintain what is in essence 2 separate apps (almost 2x workload) for an OS with 3 or 4 months expiry on it, no future and 2% marketshare? Seems to me that would be the dumber choice.
  • I'm not satisfy! What about IE10, new maps etc... I hope that this new screen isn't all in WP7.8...
  • This was a conference for developers, to show what they will be able to do with there apps and how they will look on Wp8. We'll see more closer to consumer release
  • That's true...I'm little bit afraid of the list of apps that was not seen (no right arrow) is still there? :-/ .....sorry english is not my mother tongue
  • Nokia will support us.
  • How come a phone launched 3 months ago like the lumia 900 is considered "limited hardware"?
    Why doesn't Microsoft make the effort to put the kernel on existing devices? Windows runs on single core chips, why is NFC and multicore needed to have the WP8 kernel?
     
  • Nigga please
  • I dont understand it either. They probably save money and ressources with this choice. Then, on the other hand, we are talking about MSFT, who bought Skype for $8.5 Billion and that other app-maker for $1 billion recently. And they dont have money for THIS? Seems so ridiculous.
  • I think it's all about drivers (firmware) for devices and Samsung etc. don't want make an effort to develop it again for "old" devices...  I understand this for 1.gen of devices but for Lumia 800,900... it's sad..:-/ 
  • Any idea as to when the 7.8 update will roll out for consumers?
  • Wondering the same, answer our questions WPCentral!
  • This update seems all well and good, but are they going to fix the WiFi issue?
  • I like it all. Forget the old phones bring on the new ones. New everything, step up Microsoft. You can take my money. I need a surface and winPhone8.. Can't wait..
  • I will take the update, simply because I didn't think WP7.x devices were going to get anything, but it sorta sucks that the phone that pretty much put WP back on the map (NL900) is getting shafted. I understand why, so I can't complain too much, but still.
    NowI have to wait for some WP8 goodness for 16 more months.
  • They should have done what iOS, does. Call it WP8 for everyone but not all features available to all models of phones.
  • This is truth. Apple takes the better strategy on this kind of thing.
  • I bought my HTC Surround when they first came out. I will upgrade to 7.8 and since my contract us up at the end of the year, an upgrade to WP8 is a no brainer. I'm happy.
  • Disappointed, very disappointed with Microsoft.
  • I'm psyched for this update, when should we expect it? And im assuming this will be in conjunction with the Refresh aka Tango update?
  • So reading most all the comments on here tells me that most of you don't understand that getting full WP8 still wouldn't give you any of the other capabilities that new phones will have because the phone you have now doesn't have the hardware. So it is great that they are doing what they can for existing phones. If you need the new capabilities then buy a new phone when they come out.
  • I'm not upset at all. I bought my HTC HD7 in January of 2011 and knew not to upgrade until Windows Phone 8 came out. Now my patience will be rewarded. In the mean time I won't feel jilted by getting served up 7.8 as I know it offers the best my current phone can support.
  • Couldn't be happier with this news.
  • This is the best anyone could have hoped for. Seriously what did people expect? To suddenly grow a second core on the phones so that they can run more processor demanding apps? With the exceptions of a few games and apps that require native code we will still be able to do anything that a windows phone 8 will ( not count NFC but that is irrelevant to 90% of the world anyway) I'm getting my lumia 900 next week and 4 or 5 months from now I will sell it and get an ever more awesome Nokia windows 8 phone with pureview ;)
  • Heys guys! I'm late to the party here. But I just read an article at wired.com that developers will be developing apps for WP-7.8 and WP-8. So it 's not AS bad is it seems. Believe me, I was pissed as well after learning that my New Lumia 900 was only going to get a new start screen! But there will be apps coming as well. 
     
    http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/06/windows-phones-to-get-new-start-s...
     
  • All positives aside, this will kill sales of WinPhones until WP8 arrives.
  • Same could be said of every phone. Galaxy S3 will kill the sales of S2, Iphone5 will kill sales of iphone 4s. Its just a part of the cylcles.
  • I think it is great. I look forward to having it until I can take advantage of upgrade prices at the end of my two year contract.
  •  
    You cannot improve hardware via software. But does that  mean you've to make software which cannot run on previous devices? Creating drivers for new kernel is generally the hard part. But WP could have had done that quite easily since most of their smartphones have almost idential hardware, thanks to no-fragmentation:
     
    Gen1: Qualcomm 1ghz, 512mb, 800*480
    Gen2: Qualcomm 1.4ghz, 512mb, 800*480
    Low-end: Qualcomm 800mhz, 256mb, 800*480
     
    They just had to support these configurations. Now wp8 marketshare will again rise from 0. Heck, iPhone 4 runs at 800mhz (underclocked) and will be able to run iOS6. Other than true multitasking, wp8 is no way more demanding than iOS6. 
     
    Microsoft is rather now supporting new reolutions. How significant is the difference between 768p and 720p? Rather just stay with a single aspect ratio at 15:9 (800*480 and 1280*768) and apps will continue to look good.
     
    And the 7.8 users may not be able to install any windows8/wp8 metro apps, since the kernel is different from windows phone 7.8.
  • Uhm. So some of our phones are equipped with NFC ... supposedly for some future wallet service. If it's built into the device wouldn't it be nice if we were able to use it? I'd like to see wallet service as well as better skyDrive integration and a less restrictive zune.
  • It's understandable because of the necessary hardware, but it does suck a lil. Time to save up.
  • Despite having a Titan for only a month now, I gotta say it really puts me off, but then again I could always buy a new one since mobile technology here in NZ is so late, I'm talking about a year late. So if there's a new this and that in EU or US, it'll come a year later here in NZ where it will be marketed as brand new when really its almost a legacy device. So yeah, I guess I can stick with my titan for a year more and half before buying a full pledge Apollo phone.
  • Is this update going to be on the first Gen Samsung focus as well? Im on custom flashed rom 7.10.8773.98 wonder if we first Gen wp7 users will see the update?!
  • Probably still plenty to come before release. Besides the start screen I'm sure there will be lots of new features in the hubs, and I'm thinking MS are trying not to tip off the competition too soon. Most of it should be hardware-independent, and will probably be in 7.8 as well.
  • It is a huge mistake by Microsoft. The right way would be to continue wp7.x as a parallel branch. They could rename it WP CE and release WP CE 8.0. The number 7.8 is very close to 8.0 and leaves little space for subsequent updates. They might release 7.9 update someday but that's it. It has upper limit and expiration date written all over it
  • It's a phone - and a good phone at that  (lumia 900).  WP7, WP8 - what the heck does it matter.  The OS works great.  The new OS (skin) will be great.  If the upgrade cycle is 2 years anyway - who cares.  Apple doesn't give all of the bells and whistles to from their new OS to the old phones - why should MS.
  • Not fair at all. I just gave up my upgrade for a Lumia 900. It is completely unacceptable that a phone that is currently being hyped out the yinyang is going to get only a dumbed down version of the updated OS. Time to start saving pennies to go back to Apple...
  • Given that the hardware requirements have changed and in order to make it work smoothly this makes sense. It is a good compromise and gives current users an opportunity to take win 8 for a ride. Also early adopters are ready or will be for an upgrade by time the phones are released,  with apps from win 7.5 operating on 8 makes for an interesting transition. Can't wait for my upgrade.
  • holy crap some of you guys are a bunch of cry babies...the Nokia 900 will be, and will continue to be a great phone for 2 years..then you can get another. If you want vanilla stick with apple. if you want to be lied to about a phone that will have huge delays in updates becuase of manufacturers and service providers get android. If your always gonna cry when something newer and greater comes out don't ever buy a phone cause something bigger is going to come out every six months.
     
  • As a Lumia 800 owner I'm really excited for 7.8 and all the other additional updates Nokia will be bringing. Of course I'd of loved to have Windows Phone 8 on my device, but it'd be naive of me to believe it would ever really happen. For current gen devices to have WP8, then the OS would of had to of been seriously handicapped and I don't want to see that. I want WP8 to be as good as can be so that it can succeed in the marketplace. I'll happily take 7.8 and then no doubt do an early upgrade to a WP8 device asap. For those who love WP, but are complaining, think of it this way: Handicapped WP8 = Market Fail = no more Windows Phone = go get a Droid or iPhone :)
  • Thats something that has not been addressed anywhere yet. Its getting said about the 7.8 update, coming in the coming months, aren't we supposed to get Tango first? I am sure I read somewhere on this site that some where starting to ge that update as of today?
     
    As for apps, if you heard them talking, all apps on 7.5 will work on 8, when they did the example for the word game, they had to do a minor change. So I am sure they will still make the apps for WP7.8 if its only a small change to get it to work on 8.
     
    Why all the complaints? rumors have been running around on this site for a while now about the chance of no upgrade to WP8 because of hardware limitations, so if you knew, why get a current gen phone now, then complain when the truth came out?
    I personally am looking forward to my HD7 to get upgraded to 7.8, I just hope we get some other features that are in WP8 apart from the core things which aren't obviously compatible.
     
    Update: Ok so just read that WP8 apps won't be backwards compatible, well I hope they make them for the WP7.8 phones first if they are easy ported to WP8
     
     
  • I am okay with it, I knew it going in getting the lumia 900
  • While im due for an upgrade in the "Fall" ill be happy to pass on my 7.8 Omnia 7 to the kids to play with! Ill be upgrading to Nokia by the way, maybe the Lumia 2!!
  • Oh and my Xmas present off my missus will be a Surface RT.....HAPPY DAYS :)
  • It is a huge mistake by Microsoft. The right way would be to continue wp7.x as a parallel branch. They could rename it WP CE and release WP CE 8.0. The number 7.8 is very close to 8.0 and leaves little space for subsequent updates. They might release 7.9 update someday but that's it. It has upper limit and expiration date written all over it
  • So my loyalty gets me a tweaked UI, hm? I think we're done here.
  • Windows is making a fool of its users. They could have easily done a strip down port (removing the extra features which will not work like NFC, Dual Core etc) of the WP 8 to old WP 7.5 mobiles (man these devices have every minimal requirement Processor, RAM, Graphics accelerator). They won't do, cause new features are not that cool which may insist old users to buy new WP. I don't know how good is Microsoft's marketing strategy, when it is competing with Android, iOS, and nevertheless new Blackberry 10 OS. I don't see a single chance for Microsoft nor nokia. Alas! I wasted money on buying Lumia 800. However I can atleast play with my old Galaxy S II, and thanks to the opensource  android project, I can install any version of android on my device even if the phone manufactirer decided to stop providing. :)
  • Its not like anyone will scroll this far down but you can color me disappointed (it closely resembles cyan, hint hint). The hardware limitations are obviously not anything they can change, but it is possible to write a new Win 8 Kernel for recent devices, they have simply chosen not to. With device integration being so key to the future of WinPhone and Win 8, dead-ending the current crop of phones is u wise and disappointing. Think of how this contrasts with Nokia's actions to address the initial problems with the L900? In less than 2 years MSoft will have deadended my brand new and expensive HTC HD2, HD7, and L900. That's a very poor way to treat the few Customers you have.
    If WP7.8 devices will have App integration with the Surface RT and Win8 PCs than this is less of an issue, but as they were silent on this it seems unlikely. If I were MSoft, I would take a leaf from Nokia's playbook and give a voucher to everyone who bought a WinPhone in the 12 months before WP8 is released. That would by them Brand Loyalty others would envy.
  • i scrolled here.
  • This is so true. I've been touting my phone since I got it and have been such a loyal fan, but this move is horrid.  I feel betrayed and ripped off that a premier piece of hardware is launched this close to a new OS upgrade and won't be able to update.  I can't tell if it's laziness, terrible market strategy, piss poor PR, or all of the above.
    Oh well, learned my lesson.
  • I'm gonna be on a Lumia 900 shopping spree this fall! =oD
  • I'm fine with the changes. My user experience with WP7 has been great so far, especially considering that with every update (esp. Mango) my device go even more smoother/faster when using it (I got an Optimus 7=gen1 device a year ago) and no crashes/reboots.
    I just hope the future apps made for wp8 will run on wp7.8 too. Overall I like the way where wp8 and w8rt (on tablets) and the windows live ecosystem is headed. I have my (big) doubts however on non-tough devices and w8.
  • For the love of all that's Holy WHEN are they going to introduce a phone backup!  I mean ALL of the phone, so you can do a factory reset and then restore.  I have had one complete Factory reset happen on my HD7 and I was rightfully P@##ed off that I had to manually re-install and re-configure everything.  There's no excuse for this.  Not EVERYTHING is saved to the Cloud!
    grrrrrrrrr
  • Well im truly satisfied with this news. I can't complain about anything. I knew from the get go that current phone won't support much feature. At least they thought about us and say hey we can't forget about you guys so here's WP7.8 and that will hold me off until im due for an upgrade from ATT. I still love my lumia 900. By the time I upgrade there should be a bunch of cool new WP8 devices with all the good specs mentioned
  • Well we all knew Apollo was coming, its a new phone OS tbh, and is keeping up android and ios by having dual-core, multi-core and even 64 core. Also NFC. None of the 7.5 mango phones have these capabilities, so why are people so butthurt that they won'tbe getting this new OS? it would be like putting a bugatti engine in a camry. But Microsoft have given everything they can give into 7.8. I think thats very fair and is alot better then just mango forever. Im looking forward to having it on my Omnia 7!
  • Its a better update for old phones than I expected actually. I thought it was obvious that older phones wouldnt be able to run wp 8. Ive been holding on to my Focus and waiting (patiently?...well no) for wp8 before upgrading. Hopefully a Pureview phone will be in the first batch of wp8 phones or I will keep waiting and make do with 7.8 for a while.
  • Being the owner of a Lumia 900, I can understand why they went this route. Im still not happy about the soon to be sudden lack of app support as i rely on apps and love picking up new games. Though i dont feel bad because my Lumia was free. Everyone who bought a Lumia during the first month it was out got reinbursed by Nokia for that signal drop. So in that respect, getting a brand new phone that is still nice to use for free Im ok with 7.8. I just feel that the Lumia being so new is now a legacy device is kinda upsetting. Come Win Phone 8 time Ill see what i want to do.
  • I think it is fair and great. However, when might we see it?  Bigger questions, how about the Tango refresh as when asked about my HTC Radar phone, I can almost say it is a perfect experience. I cannot due to: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/winphone/forum/wp7-wppics/wp75-chooses-data-connection-over-wifi/9a618d7b-6ac9-4c43-8181-28482fb207b6
  • Will we also get the new browser with the 7.8 update?
  • I m happy that hv not bought new device.
    So I will be waiting for the updates.
    The question is when the updates will available?.
  • I'm in the acceptance phase now. I'm honestly thinking about just keeping my Lumia even though I just bought it and could return it. I love this phone and even if it will be running an old OS in the fall its still a tremendous phone. 
  • My wife and I both have Lumia 900's...
    No disappointment here... I had an HTC Arrive prior to this and am more than happy with the Lumia 900 and it's improvements.
    The 7.8 Update will get us by until our contract is up at which point Gen 2.5/3 devices will be coming to market and we will be ready to make the jump to much improved devices.
    What makes this even easier is that I will have my Surface device to fill that void. :-P
  • Totally cool by me. I just want to make sure I'll have some kind of connectivity with windows 8. Like push to phone stuff.
  • Releasing WP7.8 for Lumia 900 and all other WP7 is much appreciated. Big THANKS to Microsoft and Nokia.
  • I've got mixed emotions (Tu)
  • This seems a fair and conscientious approach by MS. As someone who's been in from the start I'd say in satisfied (to be fair though, I might be singing a different tune if I'd just bought a L900). Will be curious to learn details of full extent / content of the 7.8 update. I'm really not convinced about the start screen changes (mainly loss of the gutter), even though I like the customisability & extra functions. May be a tough call for me whether to upgrade or not if 7.8 is primarily just the UI changes. Anyway fair play to you MS for the continued innovation - just don't forget the unique foundations of WP as you charge ahead. Onwards & upwards!
  • So glad i waited and didnt get a 900. it was rough.
     
    so does that mean people will stop buying lumina's? does that also mean that the current lumina's price will drop like a brick? I still have my 2010 HTC WP, it might be worth getting a lumina for a few months until WP8 comes out.
  • I got my Titan (I) for 99 cents on the Saturday after Black Friday, and haven't looked back.  I'll take 7.8, and when I can I'll upgrade to the latest after Apollo has been on devices for a while.  And a PureView WP8 device sounds like it'll be great.
    It happens on other platforms as others have pointed out.  My sister's original Galaxy S was the flagship at release, and now it barely works.  My old iPhone 4 was given to my oldest daughter as a glorified iPod touch, cause my wife wanted Siri.  My Titan's design is so elegantly simplistic, I'll probably pass it down to one of my younger girls once I ween them off our old beater 3GS fruit-phones they use for iPod Touches now as well.  They have to grow up sometime!
  • I see it this way: I jumped the gun early KNOWING WP8 was around the corner, but I wanted the Lumia 900. Is this still pretty bad? Yes it's disheartening and in some ways surprising, but I think people should wait and actually see what will and won't be supported at the time of release. To mention, if I'm so upset with what's happening with the current gen of devices, I'm more than sure that the low-end WP8 devices will be reasonable enough to buy off contract if I so badly want the WP8 full experience. But again, I'll wait and see what's all that is missing in 7.8 versus pouting and packing up my phone
  • Purchased my HTC TItan in December.
    Not long after it was obsoleted by the HTC Titan II.
    On the carrier side, AT&T has yet to release visual voicemail, and no OS updates, including a fix for the disappearing keyboard or a patch for the SMS security problem reported earlier this year.
    ... and now this.
    I've enjoyed using the WP operating system, but the overall owner experience has been unacceptable in such a competitive market. I'm returning to Apple and will stay there permanently. iOS 6 will support the 3+ generation old 3GS; at least there I will not be abandoned 6 months into a new contract. Shame on Microsoft, HTC, and AT&T.
     
  • I think it's fair. I knew that WP8 was coming when I bought my Lumia. I've had several months of a great phone, and with the 7.8 upgrade I'll be happy until my contract comes up for renewal. I wouldn't have missed out on my Lumia for anything. I think we will continue to see apps and updates come out for the Windows 7.5 devices, at least long enough to hold me over until I can get a WP8. Besides, I'm pretty doggone happy with the apps I have. Oh - and happy with Words with Friends and Draw Something coming out for WP soon. They talked about those during the "Legacy" section of the program, so I'm pretty sure that it'll run on my phone. I know Win 8 devices are coming out; I knew that when I bought my Samsung Series 7 Slate, and I'm going to put Win 8 on it and I won't be sorry I bought that either.
  • I'm ok with this, I think Microsoft aren't leaving us behind...it's fine
  • Goodbye WP, goodbye MS. Definitely won't buy a new WP8 device just to find out that WP9 or new apps will not run it in less than one year time. Will moving to an eco system which has a roadmap that doesn't change every two minutes.
  • You should remember. If Microsoft didnt make this move, we would be running on limited hardware forever. Windows Phone 8 hardware gives us more power to do the things we complained it didnt do.
  • I dont think that will happen again. WP7 runs on the ancient Windows CE kernel. With Windows 8 ecosystem (desktop, tablet, phone) everyting will be using the same core Windows NT kernel. This also means the DirectX will be coming to WP for gaming and how cool is that!
    Source: http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/21/3105314/windows-phone-8-directx-mobile-gaming
    So cheer up, it's not all bad!
  • If people want portable gaming they would buy a Nintendo DS. The WP software lacks support from corporations designed to be a toy with Office 365, SkyDrive, XBox, locked down design, no VPn support, and no confidence from IT depatments who happen to recommend hardware for both work and personal use. Don't get me wrong the gaming and social networking is cute, but there is a reason why Android stepped back from that type of design and opened up the doors for third parties. Since then the Android market has grown and this Titan II I bought, because I wanted to give WP a chance is never going to be anything more than a toy that gets tossed to the side. I am just glad on bought the phone rather than got it with a contract.
  • I've got a DVP. So I knew that Windows 8 would be a no go upgrade for me. To have Windows 7.8 as an alternative is all good for me. I'm sure the ones who have bought new WP7s within the past 6 months may feel robbed. However, this is the industry. All the other os's do the same. At least there is something....
  • I want it all of course, but I'm very satisfied with my purchase of the l900 the way it is, so all updates and new apps just adds to my happiness. Thanks yall!
  • Just now i shifted to android again.this stupid ms provide benefit only new customers it doesn't care about old one's.in our 7.5mango no pure multitasking is there.it is a waste os.if we buy apollo also with in less time they provide another 9 version.apps wil not perform background in this stupid mango.android is far better than this ms.
  • I am already feeling regret of supporting MS
  • I am already feeling regret of supporting MS
  • Will Zune be removed with WP 7.8?
  • 3GS will run iOS 6, that's been on the market for 3+ years.
     
    'nuff said.
  • Microsoft made a huge marketing blunder.  They should have told people they were receiving Windows 8, but that all features would not be accessible due to hardware limitations.  Why call it Windows 7.8? 
  • I'm excited for 7.8. It will make my phone seem new again. I knew there would be a really good chance that WP8 wouldn't be available for my HTC Trophy considering all the new tech the new OS is bringing. I think offering the 7.8 upgrade for legacy phones is a great solution for us ealry adopters and shows MS does have us in mind. Heck, they could have offered nothing and left us high and dry.
    Two thumbs up for MS!
  • Это полная шляпа!Зачем надо было парить мозги об апгрейде до 8 при продаже 900 нокии.Уроды!
  • I wish people would stop complaining about what their phones only being upgradeable to WP 7.8. I was a little upset for Lumia 900 owners (I still have my HD7) at first but then I realized that there are hundreds of features that MS has yet to unveil that will probably make it into WP 7.8. The only limitations are hardware so far. So Xbox music, Xbox Smart Glass, new messaging and email abilities, new people hub functions, new marketplace abilities, picture hub, etc. may all be included in your update. MS hasn't even announce all the changes they've made. From NODO to MANGO was about 500 updated features. Why should this be anything different? What we saw at the summit yesterday was geared more towards developers than consumers. The big "feature unveiling" will come soon and with it, the knowledge as to what 7.8 will include. If your Lumia 900 doesn't have certain features, its only because it requires the newest hardware to run the latest OS. Give it a chance.
  • I'm not reading all the hundreds of replies, but only saw ONE person mention this so far - 
     
    This is all very well, but AT&T has already skipped the 8107 update, AND stated they will NOT be providing any more updates to legacy devices such as the Samsung Focus etc. So this whole thing is moot. No matter MSFT is putting out 7.8 - if your carrier can't be f***ing bothered to action the update, you aren't getting it anyway. This whole discussion is pointless. 
     
    Already absolutely committed to leaving AT&T as soon as the contracts expire. They are way more expensive than the competition, their customer service is awful, they have no interest in their customers past the initial purchase/contract, and clearly favor iFluff devices over WP and always have. And now because it effectively prohibits them from selling me another device right away, something I don't want or need, they're going to keep a useful update from me AGAIN. 
     
     
  • The 7.8 update bypasses carriers m8.
  • I'm glad MS hasn't forgotten the 1st generation users. I'm quite happy with the 7.8 idea. If I needed the the full WP8 OS I would buy the new ones.
  • Anyone that doesn't get that WP8 is a whole different OS, should do some more reading. MS simply can't keep developing 2 OSes at the same time. They needed to move to a Win NT  Kernel now because they're trying to unify PC / Tabs / Phone apps.
    That's brilliant if you ask me!
    So stop complaining, and read to understand what's happening..
     
    Now there's something that I can't seem to find an answer to anywhere.. If the WP7 "gap" on the right is gone, is the app list still accessible with a swipe to the the left??
    anyone know anything about that?
  • Yes, the app list is still there.
  • Makes no difference to me. I will Love it on the Nokia Lumia 900 but was going to get one of their new Windows Phone 8 phones regardless. 
  • Hi all,
    I'm excited by the recent announcement coming out of MS. WP8 and W8 are welcome additions to this user. I am a user that purchased an HTC HD 7 the day it came out. I'd love a full upgrade to WP8 so I'm slightly disappointed but still very happy with my current phone and its performance.
    I realize my device may not support WP8 in its current form and I look forward to getting the new Start Screen. Hopefully we will see other features such as the wallet that, minus the use of NFC could centralize some of my current finance and reward card app or even transmit data by current means. In addition, I hope some of the popular titles will still arrive on the older phones. Based on past experiences I am probably 18 - 2 years away from upgrading. But then, perhaps somehow, "fortune" will find me and damage will come to my phone. In that case, I'll definitely upgrade sooner.
    Have they confirmed that 7.8 only gets a new start screen? There are absolutely no new features? There is no cut and paste? There is no MS Wallet of any sort? No browser upgrade?
  • Common people, what is all the bitching about not getting wp8 update! Do cars get replaced when a new model of an exciting car is updated to a new model? Does android update all of their exciting phones to 4.0? Will Samsung replace my 60inch 3D LED TV with the new model next year or update it with their new software? I doubt it! Is a natural cycle, new ones get build and old one get replaced by the new ones, common, stop crying and buy a new phone when it comes out if not than get the latest greatest phone now and the heck with wp8 update. Lets not forget that MSF has been around for a long time and has been making more money than all of us here put together. If this move is to fail, they don’t really care as all of their other products drive the company to higher and higher levels. Also, at the end of the day MSF just buys Nokia and uses its patents to make ever more money, MSF will make money. Don’t get me wrong, I love wp7 and it would have been great to get the wp8 into my Nokia but I get it, its just not compatible. WP7 is beautiful and I will buy a new one in December and that is that
  • Very unsatisfied
  • I'm actually a LONG time Apple Mac user. Never thought I'd be excited about a Windows product, but I actually love the start screen on 7.8!
    Coming to the WinMo game kinda late, I'm cool with having the new upgrade, cause 7 and 7.5 were a bit anemic. Just bought the Focus with the 32Gb Sandisc so we'll see how happy I am in a few months.
  • So this will run on my Lumia 710?
  • I recently bought a HTC Titan II and really want to like the WP operating system, but it is only a toy. The OS is not reasonably open to third party developement so you are pigeon holed into the little locked down marketplace. The Office 365 and SkyDrive have a very long way to go and should only be an option not a requirement for accessing files. Cellular service is to spotty and unreliable to not have your files stored locally on the device or only accessible through the Zune software rather than being able to use it like a flash drive. I really want to like this WP, but it is just a toy with Facebook, XBox being a high priority, no VPN support, the locked down carrier butt kissing design and limited avenues for allowing third parties to build on it. Based upon my present experience with WP7.5 I might have to consider a Android Desktop OS if this is a sign of things to come from Microsoft.
  • Where is the update we were promised this month?  Why announce release dates you can't live up to.  Just one more misrepresentation from MS
  • Sir My Phone HTC Orange Window Phone This is Not Update But I need update so Please Tell Me to Updation