Thurrott on WP7 'Mango' update this year: "near impossibility"

Paul Thurrott has written a nice overview of the whole NoDo/pre-NoDo update situation that has been going on for the last two weeks. While the article mostly covers old ground for our readers, there were a few bits of information that he mentioned in the story, specifically not all good things:

  • Carriers blocked the 'NoDo update' - Thurrott has mentioned this previously that MS finished NoDo back in December but "several wireless carriers unceremoniously blocked the update, creating an embarrassing situation for the software giant."
  • Verizon will announce the Trophy this month - we've heard this before, but is that the launch date too? Sometimes people use "announce" interchangeably with "launch" and we're not sure which Thurrott means here. We've heard an unconfirmed and skeptical rumor that the Trophy may be pushed back.
  • Mango by end of 2011? Doubtful. -  Microsoft themselves have stated that 'Mango' is scheduled for "later this year", with most thinking by Fall, 2011. Heck, even the leaked Dell roadmap hints at "next gen" WP7 as early as July. Thurrott is hearing it could be pushed back: "Mango will be finalized by the end of 2011, and while Microsoft recently promised to ship this release to customers by the end of the year as well, my sources tell me that schedule is a near impossibility."

All in all, two of three of those are not good news for the platform (and the Verizon bit was already known). Did a few carriers block 'NoDo'? We haven't heard that from anywhere else but it could be a possibility. We know we've heard that Dell was delaying things a bit with their hardware issues, but this is the first we've heard that some carriers blocked it. Everyone is rooting for Microsoft here to get these updates our and get the OS up to speed, but so far these updates are not progressing too well.

Update: Mary Jo Foley still thinks Mango will ship this year.

Source: Windows IT Pro

Daniel Rubino

Daniel Rubino is the Editor-in-chief of Windows Central, head reviewer, podcast co-host, and analyst. He has been covering Microsoft since 2007 when this site was called WMExperts (and later Windows Phone Central). His interests include Windows, laptops, next-gen computing, and for some reason, watches. Before all this tech stuff, he worked on a Ph.D. in linguistics, watched people sleep (for medical purposes!), and ran the projectors at movie theaters because it was fun.

  • If "a few carriers" blocked NoDo, then the other carriers should have gotten it. If an entire update can be blocked for everybody based on a few carriers objections, then all you need is for a different few carriers to object at each release, and we will get no updates whatsoever.Not a happy camper. At all.
  • Thats exactly whats going to happen since MS wants to have updates go out to all users at the same time. Once even 1 carrier blocks an update its delayed for everyone. MS had no guts, were forced, who knows but they have basically conceded control of WP7 updates to the carriers and they are not going to use that power to the benefit of WP7, more likely they will use it to cripple WP7 to the benefit of android and ios. Makes a complete mockery of claims that these carriers are "partners" or that the Nokia/MS deal is something carriers want, if you want a viable alternative to apple and google to prevent the alleged duopoly, why cripple the OS that will supposedly allow you to do that? Seems the reality is carriers want to kill WP7 rather than help it thrive, for their own unknown reasons.
  • I should clarify that I don't think there's some sort of carrier conspiracy going on. But if MS is so weak-kneed that they'll halt NoDo for everyone because *some* of the carriers said no, then it doesn't even take a conspiracy to prevent us from ever seeing an update.Microsoft should have pushed NoDo out to the customers that weren't blocked, which would have least identified what was going on instead of leaving us in the dark these last three months. This would have allowed us to put pressure on recalcitrant carriers to relent -- which is probably why Microsoft wimped out. But that's not an encouraging way to kick off WP7.An additional concern is that the current botched set of updates is supposedly necessary in order to install future updates. IOW this isn't a normal "upgrade the OS" kind of update. If the two carriers in the US have blocked this update (as it appears) then they don't even need to block the future updates - our phones won't have the basic functionality in place to install them.
  • An important part of Microsoft's business strategy is to deliver a constant user experience regardless of carrier and phone manufacturer. If Microsoft succeeds, it could pull even with Apple and ahead oh Google in this regard. However, revelations about the Nokia deal and the problems with the recent update indicate Microsoft still has away to go to achieve its goal.As to the second bullet, Microsoft desperately needs more and better phones in the marketplace. What's out there is getting stale rapidly.As for the third, Microsoft needs to establish a track record with intermediate updates and be less concerned with major updates.
  • I don't think it is as bad as Paul is making it out to be. I don't put much weight into what he says anymore. Since the launch of WP7, all of his comments have been negative toward M$. I'm not sure why all of sudden he has it in for WP7 and M$.
  • Negative toward Microsoft like still referring to them as "M$"? Is that the kind of negative that you're talking about?
  • Sounds like a good reason to be able to leave your contract if the carrier refuses to support the OS.Given that it will be baked into the OS by the time it lands on Sprint at least that won't be an issue.
  • Yes, but what happens when 'NoCandy' is intended for release in June? (Just making this up.) ... and they won't release it to new Sprint users? Then we'll be right back in the same position once again.
  • Full Mango or not. Microsoft needs to ship third-party socket support as soon as humanly possible.Many of us need Skype and other VOIP clients for work. Plus there are countless other *classes* of programs that won't work until that gets done.
  • They way **** bricking Samsung phones, I see why carriers block updates. They the one who have to deal with customers complaining about their phones in the end, not MS. After the failures seen with the pre-NoDo update, I sorta understand why carrier block updates sometimes. I just hope things don't get as bad with WM updates being delayed by years.
  • That just shows poor planning. This contingency should have been accounted for, there is no way you can expect to update millions of devices without a few hiccups, there should have been a plan in place to deal with failures. The fact is the carriers blocked the update before any devices saw it so that is no excuse. And prior to all that should have been extensive testing so that carriers would not have this as an excuse to block updates, because this wont be the last time such things happen and if they intend to block every update that produces problems then they should just can WP7 now.
  • This is a Samsung problem. They're known for having firmware/rom issue. same thing happens with Android Samsung phones.
  • Even worse than the carriers is their hardware "partners". Seriously... the devices they are putting out are **** I seriously doubt I can make the jump to WP7 until 2012 at this point.
  • Surely there was some form of contractual agreementsaying that carriers can't reject updates?
  • They don't do it to Apple ... now do they? I'd love to know what negotions and deals go on with these carriers. It seems rediculous that they can play these games. Microsoft needs to rule with an iron thumb and not let them dictate terms as they promised would happen when the product was launched at MWC last year!
  • I think what Microsoft needs to do is start upgrading phones per carrier and create bragging rights between users on different carriers. I realize they want to keep the same experience on every phone but I simply don't think that will be possible. If one carrier upgrades and another does not then the pressure is on the carriers from their customers to get on the ball. Plus then Microsoft wouldn't look like the 'bad guy' and the carriers WOULD. I think the carriers spend so much time on Android because of the many complexities and fragmentation issues that they don't have time for anything else is what it really amounts to. Or perhaps there is a grand carrier-level plan to smash MS into the ground as mentioned in previous comments (but I doubt that). I read and listen to Paul's website/pod casts all the time and he has been very negative as of late. But I think with good reason. He had so much hope and promise that MS would keep to their original intentions of quick updates, fast hardware release cycles, etc. and they have all but re-negged on nearly everything they promised. I personally have a LOT of hope this platform goes well and totally intend to get the HTC Arrive on Sprint later this month. But I hope I don't end up like I have with webOS sitting on a platform that is going nowhere (or no where in any reasonable amount of time).
  • A) the carriers are not partners, they control everything and like mobster you need to go to them for everything and pay a high cost to do business as they are the only game in town. Carriers have zero incentive for customer service, you want to leave they hold the ETF over your head. I hate AT&T btw!B) Samsung sucks! From past posts, there seems to be at least 6 different ROMs, really, WTF. Also, see how some of their Android hardware has taken 1yr to get an update -- joke!C) Motorola's CEO has expressed the fact that the Android updates "Humbiled" the company. The carriers DO NOT make it easy. Apple has the benefit of its own phone under its own standards, this 3rd party **** getting everyone to play nice sucks. Google took a different tack, we give you the OS the rest of the BS is all yours OEMs. which is why so many phones are behind the update.D) Nokia will benefit Microsoft, they are battle hardened with this update **** I blame the SD issue and the update issue on Samsung. With the next phone after my contract is up, will most assured will not be a Samsung phone. This also takes the Galaxy Tab off my list too. No more Samsung for me.What I do not get is this....if they backup your phone, why do they not wipe everything so that they users having the issue updating with less than 4gb will not have a problem.
  • Seems to me that Microsoft needs to build and market their own hardware. If only they had a partner that could pull this off....
  • Agree SilverRubicon. From your post to Microsoft/Nokia's ears.....
  • I hate speculation bloggers... just report the truth. Paul Thurrott, has no idea when NoDo's is coming nor does he know when Mango is coming. All the anti WP7 blog writers just want attention and they know negative articles gets shared faster than positive one. Dell's roundmap has nothing to do when the "next gen" WP device will come out. Dell couldn't even get there own WP7 to work right till 3 months after the launch.Microsoft hasn't even finished pushing out the pre-install fix yet. NoDo hasn't even been released yet so to say a few carries blocked it is to say that ALL carriers blocked it which is FALSE. Why even help promote this guy, wasn't this the same guy saying the NoDo was coming in Feb 7 or 8? Seriously why bother reposting his stuff
  • Thurrott is such a clown.
  • I can't wait any longer, March 20th, is a sunday, the is 3 sundays from now. Sprint Arrive is going to be so awesome. I had some of my android friends download the launcher7 app to turn their phones the wp7 lookalike, and it looks cool. and they love it, they are also looking to jump ship from android, all they do is complain about their phones, and they are not techies at all. 16 days til I get my phone, hopefully they release it on the friday before. or as soon as NODO is released.
  • MS is seriously testing my patience.
  • I'm selling my Samsung Omnia 7 phone and going back to iPhone. MS promised swift update cycle and therefore I was willing to overlook some quite major shortcomings and overall "unfinished" feeling of the OS. Instead, we'll be waiting over a year to get the basic functionality. In the mean time, Apple is polishing their OS.I really regret my decision to be an early adopter. I can't buy the few paid apps in the Marketplace, because my country "is not supported" (that didn't stopped them to sell me phone for $680...). Everything "Bing" is worthless piece of **** - perhaps it works in the US/UK, but everywhere else it's useless and there is no Google Maps option or possibility to change default search engine.Perhaps in two years the system will "grow" (can't use the word "mature", because it's still in an embryonic state in my opinion) but until then I have a very expensive dumb-phone with only basic functionality. And after that the phone will be totally obsolete....As I said, I'm trying to sell mine. Bought it for $680. Selling less than 3 months later (selling for a month already) in excellent shape for $375. The problem is - NOBODY wants it. :-(
  • I'll take it off your hands for $100 :D
  • I really hope we dont end up having to buy new devices to get these updates
  • That is certainly the way it used to be w/ WM. Scary, ey?
  • My take on carriers and updates. I sign a contract for two years and make a monthly payment, part of which is a subsidy for the device I purchased. In exchange for that monthly payment I expect reasonable cellular coverage along with support for the device I continue to pay for. That support includes timely updates to correct system bugs and offer user enhancements. Those updates would be expected to continue for two years from date of device launch, basically a device life cycle and the length of said contract. Anything less than that stated above is a breach of contract, regardless of what I signed when I purchased my phone. I don't have the know how to initiate a class action lawsuit, but I would be interested in joining one. Any takers.
  • As I want to agree with you, you need to "read" the contract you sort of signed by buying the phone. The phone has a warranty, that is it, they are pretty good about supporting you but, at any time after the 1 year warranty (HTCs warranty), they can say no. You can, like I do, pay the $3 (ext warranty) $6 (full damage coverage) per month and you will get everything you want. All you have to do is drop one of these phones 1 time and the $6 a month will pay for itself.Microsoft has said that all WP7 models will be updated. At this point with Microsoft, they do not want ANY bad press about WP7. I will bet at least for the next 2-3 years or at least all current WP7 models will be updated, till the next WP model (WP8 ?)comes out. Microsoft has always been good at this.It's all going to come down to the carriers to allow you to take the update but, it would be in the best interest for them to do so. Some might get it later than others (due to testing methods) but, you will get it.I really would not worry about getting a Windows phone update from MS...unless there is a major problem with it.
  • Understood. But it is a reasonable expectation for bug fixes to be released timely and not held back for any reason. Are you suggesting I take out insurance and then drive over my phone each time an update is held back so I can get a new (probably reconditioned) device with an updated ROM.And if the carriers motivation to hold back updates is to encourage me to purchase a new phone before my 2 year contract expires, isn't that a deceptive practice, meaning I should be allowed to walk away from any unfulfilled contract with no penalty.And what are the carriers testing. If I purchase an unlocked, unbranded phone, and used it with said carrier month to month, I wouldn't have to wait for anything. Same phone, same features, minus bloat.
  • I said I agreed with you, but, it's not totaly resonable for a carrier to have to fix every bug, a bug that effects you and me, might not effect another user. When you sign a 2 year contract, you pay to get a great deal on hardware to inturn you agree to use that (or another branded)device on their network for a minium time frame, in this case, a 2 year contract. They will release a update when they have tested it and confirm that it will not give them a support nightmare, some carriers take longer than others, some just don't care. See the problem that happens here is everyone's configuration is different, some hardware might not work, other is apps that cause the problem. It takes a while to test everything and that is why you have to wait.Sure, you can run over your phone with your car, and pay the balance to get a replacement phone and MIGHT get the update. Why ? Because the software was tested on a new, fresh software with no apps or config. If the software just started testing or they give you a phone from older stock, then guess what, you got a refurbed phone with the same update you had.If your on a CDMA network, no can do... Verizon or Sprint, you can not buy a HTC phone from HTC, they will not sell it to you. GSM phones are a diffeent story but, once you are on the carrers network, you might be limited to their upgrade path, unless HTC releases it.
  • Will there be a way to get NoDo and future updates via jailbreaking the phone if AT&T will not give us the update?
  • Well my phone isn't carrier locked, paid full price for it, and I got this patch on day 1 without an problems. Jailbreaking doesn't change your carrier status though, I don't think so anyways. If you're hardwareID or w/e is marked as one of the devices from a carrier it'll get blocked in the end.
  • I think the deal MS has in place with updates still holds, carriers can block one per cycle and can't stop the next one that comes. That is if this patch is blocked then NoDo will go through regardless. Maybe this is why the patch was done in the first place since it's so small MS could've just added it to the bigger NoDo update anyways.It also makes no sense to start selling a Sprint WP7 device with the NoDo update already and keeping the others behind, MS wants everyone on the same build so it's reasonible to think NoDo will go out before Sprint has it's phone up for sale on the 20th.As for Mango and so on, or other updates between NoDo and Mango, we'll have to wait for MiX to get details, this has always been the case and unless MS gives us an official date all anyone is doing is guessing.
  • Have you people not read the article? NoDo has been done since December and the carriers pressured Microsoft to hold off on it. The carriers will do the same on every update that follows, Mango and beyond.
  • I would be shocked if it was actually done in December. I think it's BS because if it was done, CDMA carriers would of wanted phones sonner for testing and it would not be late march before we saw them.
  • Who said CDMA carriers were clamouring for WP7? Verizon certainly wasnt, we've had no info on what Sprint's thinking was but they at least seem open to the idea. But considering the amount of testing US carriers do December for the update to have been ready for a March release doesnt seem far fetched.
  • ms needs to ditch other OEMs and announce full partnership with nokia... AND MAKE WP7 LIBERTE AS MUCH AS IT CAN...Or maybe thats the plan for xmass 2012(when the end will be near??) :-P
  • Paul is full **** ....
  • Hey you bunch of excited people who want to leave and go see elsewhere. You're welcome! Just remembre that it took much longer for the iphone to get an equivalent update. I don't get why everyone is so excited/ on fire. Damn gve it a little time.
  • I could care less about the update at this point...All I care about is getting a Windows Phone 7 model on Verizon wireless...