WhartonBrooks' CEO Greg Murphy is conducting an experiment

sorry tyler....I am NOT at all a loser even though I own both an IPHONE and Apple watch. I was using windows phone before that but the negatives far outweighed the positives when it comes to mobile. I was using windows phones LONG LONG ago. like in 2007 LONG AGO with my HTC S640 device. We could not get a palm treo on our system so I went with that and loved it. I still have it actually, even though it does not work anymore since its CDMA and my networks ditched that archaic technology years ago. My last windows phone was 2 1020s. WE loved them and saw growth and apps coming to the platform until windows 10 mobile arrived. then the bottom fell out and our needs were not being met by the windows mobile devices. So, if you want to play with words....the REAL losers are the fanboys like you not trying another device because of blind hatred and fanboy'ism. I still use windows 10 on all my computing devices, but for mobile APPLE MOPS up MS. Sorry to burst your fanboy bubble. Let the downvotes commence for the truth yet again!. BTW, if apple lies, the MS are right up there. how about "ALL WINDOWS 8 DEVICES on DENIM WILL RECIEVE WINDOWS 10 MOBILE....or.....WE ARE BUILDING PROJECT ASTORIA TO BRING MORE APPS TO WINDOWS 10 MOBILE, or WINDOWS 8 IS BUILT ON WINDOWS NT KERNAL NOW SO THERE WILL BE NO FUTHER NEED TO UPGRADE HARDWARE GOING FORWARD, or WINDOWS PHONE 7 IS THE WAY FORWARD, SO THERE WILL BE NO NEED TO UPGRADE GOING FOWARD. Dude, check your facts and keep the BS spewing to yourself.

Truth has been spoken ! I am anti Apple but I have to admit that you are right here. I gave windows phone a chance with the Lumia 920 and microsoft betrayed me as much as everybody who believed in them. But unlike some blind fanboys, I still have respect for myself and moved on to Android. I don't regret it at all. I am even trying Sailfish OS which is far better than Windows mobile.

They did not betray you, you purchased a product, that product has a lifecycle. The lifecycle runs its course and then you either stay where you are or you buy a new product. As an Android user do you feel that Google has betrayed the 75.9% (from Android studio this second) that are still using Android Lolipop 5.1 because they can't move on to Marshmallow never mind Nougat?

For android, It's not google to blame here but the other OEM. All the nexus phones that google has more or less control over were up to date on time. And yes Microsoft betrayed us by their non kept promises and lies (We will show up in the next Build some features that will "turn tables" in the OS game, We are "retranching" to let the other OEM get into the windows phone/mobile Market,...)

That was the same for Windows phone for a while until MS de-coupled the requirement for the OEMs to do the update. I don't see Google doing that. But at the end of the day its the same thing, just a different target. Does everyone out there that has a phone through an OEM that fails to update to the latest OS hate that OEM the same way they seem to hate MS? No they stick with what they have or they go buy a new phone.. One good thing to say about MS is that they do at least try to and make the situation better, they vertainly didn't set out to lie about updating older phones. The only real mistake they made was mentioning it to everyone, if they hadn't done that no one would be any the wiser and the update hate would be non-existant. Its no wonder they generally stick to not releasing any info about anything when the backlash is so strong if they try and fail

Because with android Google made it clear that they are responsible only for the OS and if people thinks that OEM are slow to deliver latest updates, either they change the brand while keeping all the advantages of Android or flash custom roms (which is easy process). While with Microsoft who failed to deliver a hardware/OS as good as they were promising with the Lumia 950, people are stuck and they started to dream already about the surface phone.

I find the Lumia 950XL to be a great device with very little issues at all. There are just some apps out there that I would like to use but aren't a necessity for me, that's it.
Google making clear they are responsible only for the OS is a cop out. I am sure they could do the same as MS did and de-couple if they wanted to. Yes you can install custom roms but that's one of the things that keeps me on windows, lack of security and the worry that one of these apps will contain malware or spyware of some sort.
As for Ms failing to deliver good devices, erm Samsung anyone, apple: you are holding it wrong!
Have a look at the reports on the Pixel XL which shuts down for no reason, same as the issue on the nexus 6P plus many more.
They are all just as bad as each rushing to market but MS seems to get a very special dose of hate for some reason..
And as Deaconclgi said. He has a nexus device capable of nougat but will be left behind,that's not an own device..

Security issues, unless you are the president or minister of a country why would you care about somebody that you don't know and who doesn't care neither about you sees which porn are you watching. This private life argument is totally irrelevent. And still, if you want security on android, there is the Blackphone.

Seriously, I am talking spyware that can gain enough knowledge about you that then be used to defraud you in any number of ways. Just today there is an article about how google have removed 25,000, yes 25 thousand apps that are trying some form of work around to steal your info. That is the main reason I am still in windows..

http://thenextweb.com/google/2017/01/18/google-reveals-how-it-flagged-25...

Simply because not many users are on windows mobile. It's the same reason why there are many malwares on Windows pc and not on Mac OS. And thanks to microsoft strategy of one core you will have as much spywares as on windows desktop soon.

This is entirely not true, these days Windows 10 has the smallest attack surface of all the OSs. You are talking about older OSs such as Windows 7. Edge is also the most secure browser currently available. And these days Mac OS has more than its fair share of vulnerabilities. As for One Core, this is one of the reasons why it is so secure not one of the reasons it is not. Androids security issues exist because of its open source nature. If you actually read that article posted you will see why Android is the least secure of the three. It has nothing to do with the number of users at all.

well at least MS finally fixed things for the 950 and even added features xd 

Pixel is so great btw xD 

Nothing but an empty black void on w10m. Can't see any text

Landscape the phone and the text appears, for me at least.

I see ill check that out thanks dude

Yet my Nexus 5, with a more than capable Snapdragon 800, will never get Android Nougat. Every OS has devices that get left behind, some by factual limitations, others by corporate decisions.

I also have a Nexus 5 and I have Nougat on it + I installed sailfish OS too. So it's not really left behind as windows phone/mobile devices.

And yet people out there with 512MB memory machines are also installing Windows 10 via workarounds. Plus I have seen Windows hacked on to Android machines and even custom roms created for Android devices. But we are talking legitimate upgrades direct from the OS developer through proper chanels.

You were officially left behind just like everyone else that has a Nexus 5, you just found a way around it and that is not the same as not being left behind and you should know that. My 1020 and HTC One M8 for Windows have Windows 10 Mobile on them but I would be misleading and plain lying to say those devices were not left behind. The fact of the matter is, the Nexus 5, along with multiple other Android devices have been left behind. Certain capable iOS devices have been left behind and Windows devices have been left behind as well. This will continue due to the two reasons mentioned, some factual hardware dependencies not being met and other times it is simply a corporate decision to not support upgrading a device.

Tell me frankly, Doesn windows 10 work really as it should be on your Lumia and HTC ? because I also have it on my L920...

It works perfectly on my HTC as it has the Snapdragon 801 processor, a more powerful processor than the one that powers the Lumia 1520 (Snapdragon 800). The HTC fell victim to corporate decisions not to upgrade the phone to Windows 10 Mobile. Windows 10 Mobile is horribly sluggish on my 1020 as it has the same incredibly old Snapdragon S4 processor that your L920 has plus the 41MP camera. The 2GB RAM helps a little but it is still an unsatisfactory Windows 10 Mobile experience when compared to newer low end Windows 10 Mobile phones or even older phones running the more efficient Snapdragon 400 series processor such as the Lumia 830 and Lumia 640. With that said, no, Windows 10 Mobile doesn't run as it should on the 1020.

So in Nexus 5, Android Nougat is running with no problem at all. That what is all about... ;)
 

Firstly "That what is all about..." huh..? Secondly, missed the point, the Nexus 5 is perfectly capable of receiving and running Nougat and yet Google have not deployed the OS to it. They have left it behind and this is the exact same situation MS phone users found themselves in, no official update from MS but can get Win 10 through other means. And yet with MS you say users were betrayed but with Google you are all smiles and roses. Thank you for helping explain my point about the odd vitriol MS receives for daring to try something and failing.

Difference between Android and MS situations is Nexus 5 already had a capable OS, but WP was lagging in basic features n hence ppl looked forward to updates n they were royally screwed.

Depends on your personal requirements, I wouldn't say KitKat was a decent OS at all having used it on the wifes tablet at the time. I also wouldn't say that Windows Phones were that lagging, yes they had some things missing that should really have been there but they also had other features that iOS and Android are only just catching up on today. And as for screwed, the same argument exists, you buy a phone, it has a lifecycle, all phones miss out on OS upgrades eventually. Older phones did not get upgraded, newer ones did. Its the same on every platform and it always will be..

By "that what is all about..." I meant that in both cases you can have a way arround to update your phone but with android it's much simpler and the phone still works as good as it was an official update. While with windows phone it's not the case at all. And secondly, Google never claimed that nexus will receive the nougat then changed their mind like what microsoft did. from the begining google gives a list of phones that will receive it's updates and sticks to it unlike microsoft which promises things and delivers less than half of it.
 

If you own a Nexus 5 and haven't flashed a custom ROM to it, you're doing it wrong. There are hundreds out there. That's the great thing about Android, you can make it your own.

What's great to you may not be great to another person. I've been flashing ROMs since the Symbian days, flashed Android, Maemo, Flashed Android/Maemo 5 dualboot for the Nokia N900 as one of the testers, flashed Windows Phone 7 on Windows Mobile 6.5 phones, even jail broke iOS and more. I can flash a Nougat ROM but that doesn't change the fact that the Nexus 5 has been left behind by Google. Anyone may come up with a workaround for something but that doesn't solve the inherent problem, it just works around the problem while the problem still exists.

Again, Google said from the begining that they won't release Nougat for Nexus 5 so there was nothing to expect unlike Microsoft who promised that all the phones with Windows phone 8.1 can be upgraded to windows 10. And you know what happened next. False hopes and deception.

I have a NOTE 1 on 4.0....I think it is, and guess what there are probably on 3 apps that need something newer...That's not bad considering the age of the device....

total different situation PYROBRI.....Microsoft came out when w10m was being cooked up and said to all phone users....anyone using windows 8 denim will 100 % get the w10m update....then 2 months later turn around and axe a bunch of devices that worked totally fine with w10m off their upgrade list. My 1020 was running developer 10 and it was fast, had great battery life and after 2 updates the camera worked as it did in 8....but they axed it from official updates and a way forward....so that killed a much needed user base to keep the mobile OS moving forward. ALOT of these people using the windows phone 8 devices were the same ones burned by Microsoft with the 7 to 8 transition. ME being one of them.....SO.....yeah they screwed me over more than once...I cannot see myself going back to MS mobile phones any more. not worth the risk....Also, with android, all the apps for the most part still work and get updated on older verisons....but on windows phone...they are either 1. not updated and therefore become terrible over time....or 2. just axed all together and just don't work. you are forced to use half baked 3rd party crap apps on windows just to try to manage along. It was a breath of fresh air when my wife and I got our new iphones last year and have all these apps and accessories that we had no access to before. Like being able to just unlock our hotel rooms with our phone instead of digging around for those stupid keys that dont' work a lot of the times, or just scan our apple watches with our boarding passes....or just scan our phone or watch at the rental car lot and get in and go....NOTHING of the sort was possible using windows mobile. Most of the apps were just web directors. SOOOOO yes things have a product life cycle...but even with my old galaxy note 1, I can do many more things NOW, than I can on a windows mobile device. Continuum is silly...it lacks power etc, and if you are traveling you still need a lapdock...so might as well have a cheaper more powerful notebook with you....etc.

It's a different world on IOS and Android that we enjoy...fanboys here will never understand no matter how much you try to explain. MS made the same mistake 3 times, fcking up users, because it seems they enjoy doing it.

I think because every brand every model of android phone has different build,  evey phone get different build at different buid, most of them will never get update except those major brand and latest released, and also lots of user choose not to update or never care about update because there is not difference between android 1.0  and 7.1.1.   windows phone 7 may have too old hardware so update to windows mobile 10, if you force it, then the phone will be slow.  I think this is right theory.  Most users would buy latest product to follow the trend. New products introduced every day.   Windows phone lost balance in market because the what users think not the windows sytem or microsoft.  

@Steve Adams The down vote was the return of the loser comment, no one is a loser for the OS they use, people like different things for different reasons and should not be vilified for their choice. I for one like Apples OS but do not like their business practices or the way 'I feel' they massively overcharge for their devices and seem to copy ideas claiming they are their own among other things. 'I' choose not to use Android because I don't trust the open source OS and the need for anti-malware/virus software among other things. At the moment I am very disappointed with Windows Mobile but I still see it as the best choice for my personal situation right now. I am more frustrated that I don't see any one of them as a clear winner and wish they would all step up their game. At the moment I feel Android is making the greatest strides, just not quite their yet 'for me'. But the point is, you are not a loser for going to Apple, I am not a loser staying with MS, you pays your money, you makes your choice...

NO, I called HIM a loser for being blind to other things....if you are great with windows phone fine, however, its dropping way to much to be viable anymore...that's why I jumped ship!

your caps lock is broken.

haha

Sorry, but you're a loser. Not because you own an iPhone and an Apple watch, I also have an iPad lying around. But because all you do is trolling and writing negative sh*t to spread scepticism, hate and doubt... And you like it...

I am on this site because I use windows devices everyday....RANDOM DS.....Just not windows 10 mobile because its ruined now with lack of support from all sides....I just sounds like I am trolling but that's what happenens when a fanboy reads what I type....I am not trolling I am providing first hand experience that I have had with Windows 10 mobile/windows phone 8/windows phone 7/windows mobile 6.0/android of various versions and Iphones of various editions. I was probably selling and using mobile phones before you were born....no, I take that back I KNOW I was using mobile technology before you were born. JUST BECAUSE I say that windows mobile is tanked....does not mean I am trolling.....Its true...look at the sales figures, market share etc. Because a blind fanboy like yourself does not want to hear the truth, automatically makes me a troll. very very funny imo. I LOVE WINDOWS 10. I did NOT at first because of its many problems, and MS's total abandonment of windows 10 mobile, as well as killing any amount of traction they had with windows phone 8 (which was awesome btw). But they decided to "retrench" and destroy ANY hope they had of keeping happy users like my wife and I in the ecosystem. Once 10 mobile came online and MS lied about keeping ALL WINDOWS 8 DEVICES with DENIM updated to windows 10....that was the last straw for us...we saw it happen 3 times and that's enough. Apple still updates the iPhone 4 with security patches etc....they are not forcing anyone to buy new iphones at every revision of IOS. So before you open your fanboy mouth....you should read once in a while...yeah yeah you work a vodaphone now....wow. you are an EXPERT!

You sound like an Apple fan boy. Funny how people get emotional over an electronic device and defend it to the end. It's only a phone for crying out loud.

No apple fanboy here.  I hate their desktop and laptop computers.   They are crap.   I sold mine after 2 months.   W10 in desktop space is so far ahead with features it's not even comparable.  So there goes that thought barstow

Got an iphone 6+ for a month went right back to a win mobile.... Terrible GUI, XP on a phone.... And horrible hardware for the pricetag.... If android wasn't an even shittier OS there would be absolutely no reason to get an iPhone other than brand recognition.... Yeah we know MS is missing apps and that's a deal breaker for some... But if like me you have all you need on it there is absolutely nothing in favor of an iPhone when you put the matching generation windows device next to it...

The fanboys you find on this site...smh. Apple makes quality hardware. If you prefer Windows Mobile, that's your perogative. No one is going to believe your fanboy lies. I feel bad for you, you sound like a bitter person.

Tyler.. You're immature.
I bet all those "losers" have enjoyed all those Apple products for years..
.......
I bet your mom has an iPhone..

He's not comparing them to Apple, he's just saying that he's not gonna invest too much emotionally into this until more concrete facts emerge.. Which is what we all should be doing.. That means, at this point, nobody should be super critical, or overly enthusiastic... Only interested, or not interested.... Personally, I think anyone should at least be interested in what's happening here, whether "WP" fan, or not... Heck, I'm not interested in Android, but if some Android fan decided he was gonna make his own devices I think it would be interesting to see how far he got with that. The point is to just be realistic, fair, and reasonable.. Sad we even have to discuss this. Lol

Well said jason.. Me too a windows fan and feel like app gap is the main part we are lagging behind compared to Android or ios.. Something should be there soon to fill this app gap. Wharton's please do the best for app gap too..

It is my huge hope, that from the last article where the Windows Phone 7/8 software developers are involved, that they have created some sort of emulator that will run android apps. The Astoria bridge would still require a developer to port the App but an emulator that can access the Google store or install apk files would go a long long way.. I am sure I am dreaming though :/

Wharton can do NOTHING about the app gap. That is Microsofts baby.

that's developer's choice

Exactly...Rollindice. And the developers choose to stay away because Microsoft takes more royalties than the others, and have less users than the others.

This is incorrect on both counts. First off all of the app stores charge 30%. This i something I have campaigned for in the past to try and get developers back to MS. Reduce the royalty fee to say 15% and it would become more attractive. And as for less users, UWP Apps on Windows 10 work on phone as well as desktop, desktop user count is massive. What it requires is developers to move their apps to UWP, then they have the existing windows 10 desktop and xbox base. Making the app then phone friendly is trivial. A reduced royalty would go a long way here..

@thepyrobri...that is the exact same thing I said.....even the UWP apps that are being developed are not being bothered with for mobile.....Microsoft wants mobile to gain some traction give a 1 year 0% royalties kickback for developers....you have from Feb 1, 2017 to Feb 1, 2018.....all royalty free, then make it the same as apple and google stores.....DONE...instant ingress of quality and mainstream apps!

you are completely uninformed! Apple and Google take less than 30%...pfff fanboy

Back it up with facts then..!!!
This is from Apples own current developer page:
https://developer.apple.com/programs/whats-included/
"You get 70% of sales revenue. 85% for qualifying subscriptions." To get 85% you have to have an app that people subscribe to not pay once apps, and even then you only get 85% of that subscription after the users first year. From Googles developer page:
https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answer/112622?hl...
For applications and in-app products that you sell on Google Play, the transaction fee is equivalent to 30% of the price. You receive 70% of the payment. The remaining 30% goes to the distribution partner and operating fees. On top of these percentages Apple charge a $99 per year membership fee and Google charge a $25 one off registration fee. MS has no such fee any more meaning that the MS store is the cheapest overall. Call me a fanboy all you like, I am a Windows fan and I am male so technically true, However I also am also correct!!

yes and developers(MS) decide that its not worth to upgrade the linkedin app or minecraft PE, or the port the dozens of Apps that MS has only on ios/android

MS have only just taken over LinkedIn so that is far too soon. Minecraft I don't know enough about yet to be fair. What are the other apps? Obviously all the launchers are no good. Then there are the garage app which are not MS apps, they are by MS emplyees outside of their every day work. So which ones are left? I really am asking out of interest, its not rhetorical?

Well I'm not talking abt garage apps but business apps. for example Sway. outlook app on ios/ Android is more functional, fellow users have reported more apps as well, all business relevant

Outlook does exist though and I use it for work perfectly well. Feature  parity is a different beast and it has to be understood that work started on the other OSs before so they will be ahead until the terams catch up. Sway yep, that is not on phone, personally dont have any need for it but it really should be on the platform yes. But that is one item, it hardly equates to dozons of apps..? For business use myself I would always whip out the surface anyway to be honest no matter which mobile I had..

But with islandwood, all MS has to do is shoot the "ios app" through the bridge and from what MS has said, it should be very very easy to get the features from IOS into a UWP app....is that NOT how the bridge works?

Wharton can make its own apps where feasible and to fill feature gaps, just like Nokia did and exactly as Alcatel and HP are doing now.

Wharton can make its own apps where feasible and to fill feature gaps, just like Nokia did and exactly as Alcatel and HP are doing now.

Wharton can make its own apps where feasible and to fill feature gaps, just like Nokia did and exactly as Alcatel and HP are doing now.

Wharton can make its own apps where feasible and to fill feature gaps, just like Nokia did and exactly as Alcatel and HP are doing now.

The very last thing anyone on the planet should do is take marketing advice from Microsoft
Whatever MS suggest, they should do the exact opposite.

All I know is the guy lives in my neighborhood and I will support the product as much as I can.

I'm on board. Looking forward to the product.

He hasn't really shared much info now has he? That was just a tease. Damn you!

No one could hit anything in the G.I. Joe cartoon. Super elite soldiers firing 4000 blasts per minute couldn't hit a wall 20 feet away.  It was like the A-Team of cartoons only not funny.  Now you know....

Who messed up your childhood to dislike G.I. Joe? That was my favorite cartoon back then.

I liked Transformers way more.  At least they hit each other with their guns lol

Yeah but in G.I. Joe they were not trying to kill anybody and that as we all know is much harder and takes more skill.  And now you know.

I am still waiting eagerly for more news on this. It has just been such a long time since the cancelled September greet and the Autumn release. In that time my 930 needed replacing and with no other options in the UK other than the underpowered 650 I went with a 950XL. I like the phone but am fairly non-plussed really and have been on the fence with Android for the past month, only the stories of malware and general insecurity of the OS that is holding me off really. I really hope that these guys have some sort of ace up their sleeve that will reignite my passion for Windows Phone as the flame is really struggling right now. Wish you all the best for the new sample and hope to hear from you soon :) == please don't take MS's totally hard line on not releasing any details at all, that would be fine if you hadn't stepped forward but now the genie is out it is an all too familiar MS feeling of not wanting to invest much hope as too many things have been snatched back ==

i recently sold my L925 as it was just getting slow and the battery was draining fast then bought a L650 which I enjoy using and it works very well for light use plus it only cost me 50 euro, I am hoping to buy a premium windows phone device soon but I don't know which one to buy, will Whartonbrooks Cerulean only be available in the U.S or also here in the E.U?

They have been slated as coming to Europe but still unknown right now. I was personally waiting for the Alcatel but after nearly a year of waiting I gave up, even now it is released in US only with no date for Europe. So annoying that by the time we get hold of these flagships something new has been released and the phone is now mid-range..

thanks..

Get a HP or Alcatel or the WB when it comes. I think the Acer sells in Europe. Or if that fails fond a 950xl somewhere until Surface comes out.

The 950/XL are back in stock on the U.S. MS website.

Between Microsoft and WhartonBrooks, it must be a "strategically placed pawn" to improve the future of Windows Phone. Thus, they're waiting for the right moment. I don't know. I've read your earlier pieces on WhartonBrooks, and even then I don't know what they're doing.

I couldn't agree more. I've been hearing the odd bit of news about this company for over a year and I'm still totally in the dark about what they do or how they play a part in Microsoft's mobile strategy. This Greg dude is so secret squirrel he may as well be working for the NSA

I don't get it?? What information is he on about. All I hit from this is that he's going to be testing a new phone shortly.

It has given a time frame, before that we were wondering if anything would happen this year never mind this month..

Yeah!  Instead of "End of January", we now know that it's within 7-10 days of the 19th, so it definately WON'T be Jan 30 or 31!  

What don't you get from this? It's a delivery of a test phone that will tell if the sims work with different networks. He obviously wants things to be right. I love what they are doing and how they are doing it. Put yourself in their shoes.
Also, obviously they are trying to change things for WP's with not only the hardware but the software, of which is cool as others have just gone with stock standard WM OS. Cool idea. Only a fan would do this. I'm more concerned that the phone doesn't look like a rehashed Samsung. Hate Samesung. Anyway Greg, awesome news, keep us all posted.

Exactly. This is some important information. I really hope that the test goes well.

It is going to be a rebadged Chinese phone. It will not look like a GS7, it will probably be much worse looking.

I'm excited for what they come up with. And I am in the camp that any information helps keep my interest flowing. But I can't totally predict how I'll feel if it's a failed test and back to the grindstone. Perhaps that's the leap of faith but I feel optimistic of what's to come.

It's all just hot air until we see a product. This is going to be a hard market. But I wish them well.

Why are the comments full of big black boxes on the w10m Windows central app?

Yea I noticed that yesterday, there seems to be a character limit that gets breached and then the empty box is rendered. At least now I know its not just me...

Roger that, I've experienced that glitch as well

duel boot windriod would be they only way they could sell anything at this point. I bought the moto z recently and that phone would be prime for dual boot. Slap on a windows mod and ala duel phone.....hopfully at mwc lenovo makes that happen or someone else makes the mod.

Why would ever buy into Windows then? To stare at Live Tiles? It would be pointless.

No I would use Windows 90% of the time and then when I wanted to do something like banking or something else I dont have an app for I would switch. There is about 3 apps I would relaly like access to and that is it.

How would this help Windows 10 mobile as a whole then? Would this bridge the app gap? I never liked the idea of dual boot with Windows. I just don't think it'll help. Maybe help Android, but definitely not Windows.

No I don't like the idea of dual boot either, it would be a work around that allowed me to use Android apps here and there without having to buy a seperate Android phone, that's it. Personally I would rather they have some sort of Emulator that can run android apps in Windows itself. Something akin to Bluestacks on desktop does now. Actually both of these would mean that people could buy windows phones safe in the knowledge that they will not have to miss out on any apps. Hopefully then in time the user base would grown enough that the app developers would create native apps.

It would just be a pacifier. Three apps turns to four, then five, etc. Soon you can't remember the last time you used Windows. Why would you use it at all anyway? There is nothing you can do in Windows that isn't just as easy in Android. It would just be a matter of time before you took off the training wheels.

That's not the point, I don't like using using Android and I can do everything I NEED to on Windows, there is a tiny amount of things I cannot do which I get by just going to the website versions instead. There are plenty of things that are not as easy on Android. I hate the fact I need virus/spyware/malware checkers and memory managers etc. I don't like the way I haveto scroll through pages of apps to find the one I want and then have to click it to see what the new notification is etc etc. Its personal preference. And as for people leaking over to Android, the leak would go both ways. I know plenty of people that would love to use Windows phone, "if it wasn't for that one missing killer app"...

You do not need memory managers or virus protection on Android. It handles memory management just fine on its own. People just get OCD and think they need to be constantly killing apps. Unless you are installing random apps from Chinese app stores or side loading sketchy and pirated apps then 3rd party virus protection also isn't needed. It automatically scans any new apps too, you would really need to try to install malware. You have a fully featured notifications center. You don't need to open the app or leave your current app to see a detailed notification. You can even swipe down again to expand notifications further. You can then see each individual email or message and even reply directly from the notification or open the message directly if you want. No need to enter the app drawer at all. The notification center gives you more functionality than a Live Tile even without leaving your current app.

Thats not true though is it, the browser has security issues and there are plenty of issues with the Google Play store. I have read many time about malware in the official store. Just today there is news about how they got rid of 25 thousand apps containing malware of some sort. http://thenextweb.com/google/2017/01/18/google-reveals-how-it-flagged-25... The simple fact is Android is inherantly not secure, at least it is the most insecure of the 3 main OSs. As for memory. I have an Android phone from when I was learning to write Android Apps for work and it was forever slowing down after hours of use so yes I do need a memory manager on it. Notifications is the same, not sure if you were on the insider rings but I can do all that directly in the notificaton centre too. Respond to texts etc, can even reply to Windows Central notifications there. And it still dosn't get around the fact I simply do not like having to swipe multiple home pages to find the app I want. Much prefer being able to arrange tiles where I want and resize them as I want, Everything I want to use is visible right there in one screen. For me, I find Windows OS much simpler and more efficient day to day.

Anything you can fit on one screen in Windows Mobile is easily fit on one screen in Android. Wether you have a vertical or horizontal scrolling homescreen doesn't change that. You have the option for either in Android. Your homescreen can be anything you want, including tiled. You are grasping at straws to justify using a dead platform. Even Microsoft has started killing app support for W10M and isn't using UWP. Why would you continue supporting a company that isn't supporting you?

Don't waste your breath.

That will never happen.

Thanks for the heads-up Greg. I am interested in what you plan to show, but will only be excited after I have seen some sort of product announcement. As a consumer I am not currently deterred by the lack of communication thus far, and I feel these multi-part articles by Jason are premature and fully admit to lightly skimming them. I wish your business the best, and have some money saved up just in case!

@sudokode If you follow thier Whartonbrooks Soundcloud podcast you will see that my articles are not out of line with what the company is releasing themselves.

I'm supporting you all on this, I believe that this will happen, if this phone really happens, I think that all the major development companies will then look into the platform. I’ve also been a long supporter of windows phones, from the early days with my HP Windows Mobile 5 PDAs and now with my Lumia 650. I owned a lot of windows phones; from budgets from Blu to flagships 1520s, but now, this all hinges on will this product be a successful launch. If it is then we are in business, but who knows, WB may be making and doing all the testing for the new generation (category) of windows devices.

I'm proud to say I'm a windows user since almost the first Windows. I've used all you can name it. One thing that always made me want to buy a
new PC, Laptop, and Mobile (since 6.5) was the enthusiasm of the new features, the refreshed look and that marvelous sensation of getting a finished software. Since windows 8 and wp 8.0 I have the strange feeling of being a lab mouse. The OS is never finished, they manage to correct one thing and they mess another, it stopped being fun to use Windows or windows mobile. I'm tired of not be able to have a phone that works in a decent way, not even my laptops and PC work as it should. I paid for it. Stop playing with us. Release when it's tested and finished, there you'll see people buying and using Windows Phones, using all the Windows ecossystem. It's a matter of satisfaction. Normal people are not satisfied with the windows based products. End of story.

Without App support, Its NOT going to work.. You can make the Best phone in the world. And lets assume this one is.!!! BUT without Apps no one will come back to this platform. It's a catch 22, no Apps no users- no users no apps. Sorry but Microsoft has every App made for Android , that is/was on Windows phone.. That is what REALLY killed the phone...In my opinon.

Article No. 5 now, and STILL nothing about what this miracle phone is going to do. I think article 10 by Jason will be titled "WhartonBrooks, unfortunately it was vapourware." 

Just keep coming back and well see what unfolds. Glad you're still here🙂

I can't to see what Microsoft has up their sleeve to help boost Windows 10 mobile. I'm still waiting for the developers to make apps for Windows. I also wait to see what you, and Windows Central, will say to keep me interested. I'm still waiting. Maybe //Build will have something great for Developers in the works this year.

I believe this tad bit of information strengthens my resolve for this company. My complain with Microsoft is that they don't even give a shred of hope lately where as this information at least gives you hope that something is closer to finished! Hope that we could have news in 2 - 3 weeks if everything goes well and if not then at least we know about it. I'm glad they decided to share at least some information and I for one will be keeping a closer eye on their projects! As for those complaining about the pitfalls of the Windows Mobile OS then the OS is just not for you at this time. This is a phone for fans by a fan and all fans should know that the store isn't as bountiful as Android. We get it already. True fans accept this and move passed it out of pure love for the OS. Some of us love the simplicity of the start screen that also keeps you informed. Some of us love being able to be a part of the testing phases from the Insider program. Hell, some may even love it being the underdog! Moral is, lets stop judging someone for their support of an OS. If you're on this OS then you're in the same boat as we are anyway. Microsoft sure as hell knows by this point. If they were pulling like this CEO they would place some more hope in their fans with information as well. Let us see how it goes!

Awesome news Greg, I think its fantastic that you're committed to doing something awesome with W10 on mobile (phrasing deliberate) I don't usually comment but felt the need to in this instance as I can feel your frustration with the responses of loud, angry windows mobile fans. I've only been using w10 mobile for just over a year (from iPhone), and I love where its headed with the continuum vision. I respect what you're doing and the passion that you've put into this project. The massive and expanding mobile device (deliberate again) market need more players to shake things up because the big G and A are stuck in a rut. More information / transparency is great, but it also bites you in the A$$ when things change or deliveries get delayed, I completely get that (as a product manager at a software company). I feel the frustration though after seeing some of the comments posted here and on other WB articles by Jason. Anyway, FWIW, and entirely IMHO, as hard as it is sometimes, I think MS's advice to stick to hard facts is probably sound advice. Dave from Oz

Also, I realised that I didn't wish you the very best of luck with the imminent round of prototype testing, I hope it arrives on time and everything works out awesome!

...so they have exactly one test unit? That doesn't inspire confidence...

Actually they have multiple samples.

"Murphy says that they are expecting their next round of samples before the end of January. If all goes well he'll then 'announce everything'"  Round of samples...

More power to them, but I don't see how they could even hope to make a quality, cutting edge device when we see billion dollar companies fail all the time.

TL:DR or BLUF: I've had other phones and OS's, Windows is my favorite. Need all major carriers to support it. Needs more apps to be viable for typical consumers. When it comes to mobile technology for the typical consumer, if it doesn't have the apps/games, they aren't going to buy it. I personally don't play a lot of games or use a lot of social media on my phone. I don't feel the need to waste time playing games and I don't feel the need to be connected at all times. What few I actually would use already exist on Windows. There is the odd app that would be nice to have (apps for my daughter's school, home automation, etc.), but nothing I absolutely need. In some cases a suitable alternative exists, but in others it's completely absent. I purchased my Lumia Icon knowing full well that the 'app gap' existed. The sales person even tried to convince me to get an Android and didn't even want to talk about the Windows phones. I'd had Android before and was disappointed to find that I wouldn't be able to run certain apps on it after a time, update the OS to the latest and greatest so I could continue to run those apps, and that the OS basically self destructed after a year and a half. I had to root the phone and run Cyanogen just to get it to function and it still didn't function well. A year and a half and my phone was basically unsupported and useless, which I found to be absolutely ridiculous especially considering I bought it the week it was released so it wasn't that old. I'd had an iOS device before as well, but didn't view those any different than Android. The interfaces were similar and the OS updates were almost just as limiting. I'd also had a Blackberry before and that thing was a disaster. I'd heard of Windows phones and knew a couple people who had one, so I checked them out. The UI looked great, it was intuitive and user friendly, and it had most of the apps that I actually NEEDED. It also seemed to be geared more toward productivity than social connectivity. That's when I made up my mind to switch to Windows. Three years later, I'm still rockin' that Lumia Icon and it hasn't missed a beat. I haven't had anywhere near the trouble I had with my Android or iOS devices. It still runs like the day I got it (minus a little battery life), I'm able to get the latest OS updates (running Insider), I don't get debilitating lockups, I have yet to have to factory reset my phone, it doesn't randomly reboot on me, the apps I use on it continue to get better, and I'm more productive being on one OS ecosystem (Surface Pro 4, desktop, work laptop, and my phone all running Win10). It's (functionally) the best phone I've ever owned and the best OS (user friendly and most productive) I've ever used. This is why I choose Windows Phone over any other. My problem going forward is going to be support from Verizon. I've said it before in other posts, regardless of what the coverage maps say, all the other carriers have terrible service in my area. Verizon is the best, but still not great. At home, it's fantastic, where I work not so much. It's difficult to get coverage at my work place given what's in the surrounding area for any carrier. But some is better than none, which is what you get with the other carriers even in areas where they claim great 4G LTE coverage. Even at my house in the middle of town I have full coverage and my friend on T-mobile is lucky to get two bars even though their map shows their best coverage in that area. Verizon is pretty much the only choice for consistent service in this area. If I can get a Windows phone on Verizon that's better than what I currently have, I'll snap it up. Otherwise, I'll have to switch OS's or hope carriers get better when this phone eventually gives up the ghost.

Wish we get to see something in India :)
From the last article I get a feeling that they will try to add custom software similar to what Nokia has done in the past with Double Tap To Wake, Glance, Mix Radio, Maps, Equalizer etc (though Whartonbrooks would probably have their own set of custom softwares). It's the little touches that matter! Very good of them to not present anything without cold hard facts. People automatically assume this as lack of trying, but taking into consideration the many failed Kickstarter campaigns with/without products to show, anything can happen.

Definitely not a cakewalk to get up and decide to do what they are

Word of advice. Don't come here with a thin skin. These people have been disappointed and disenfranchised, they can be a bit sensitive.

Really hopeful, and excited about the wharton brooks project, its great that a passionate fan of the windows mobile is trying to create the device he'd love to see. I have a Lumia 950 and its brilliant, however id buy an additional device from wb to help this vision succeed. Which would be my daily driver is unknown. Best wishes guys and hopefully you will succeed.

Microsoft isn't supporting Windows Mobile any longer, why would they make a phone now? Until Microsoft finishes this new reboot, it is really risky buying a current device let alone creating a new one. With Microsoft even dropping support for Minecraft on Windows Mobile, it isn't a great sign they will be continuing support. If they were serious about it and UWP they should have already had a UWP app to replace the current one. It would then be ready for WOA phones. In the meantime they should make an Android phone for Windows fans. Either use Microsoft's Arrow launcher and bundle their services or create a Windows Mobile launcher for the device. At least it would have definite support from developers and especially Microsoft. That makes way more sense then creating a phone on a platform Microsoft is killing.

What do you get out of constantly lying on this site?

Where are the lies Darkness?

Let's give this company a chance. If they fail then they fail. If they succeed then all the better for this platform.
For an entrepreneur looking to do something for an OS that he loves and for the fans is a huge undertaking and kudos to him and his partners for even trying. Thank you no matter what happens !
How many other people are willing to take a gamble on an mobile OS with less the 1% market share ? At least someone is trying and that should mean more than the constant negative tongue wagging these forums produce.
It's better to try and fail than to never try at all. How much worse can it get ?
We're already at the bottom. It's time to look up.
I understand the frustration, but let's give Whartonbrooks a chance to get things right. We really don't have much choice. Other than Alcatel who else is bringing something to the OS ?
My hope and wish for this new company is that they will succeed in their venture. Go for it guys!

Kudos on your post. Alcatel's Win phone is slamming 👍🏽

I wish them the best of luck and am still looking forward to what they will bring.

Effectively WB cannot announce too much before MWC and/or BUILD 2016.  Also, testing a prototype with various SIM cards from different providers is a first step only. Devices like these need to be tested with super-expensive test-equipment from Rhode & Schwarz etc.. As WB never ever will be able to buy or operate such an equipment, they will need to use service companies who own such equipment. Even that is very expensive. Ever test round is a small fortune. And than, WB is acting according to internal strategic directions of Microsoft, which of course are under NDA. And they are probably bound by several other, more hardware-related NDAs etc. etc.  So WB pretty much have to stay mum 
and there is almost nothing they can discuss publicly 
other than they are working on a product.  I do not expect too much concrete information 
before Microsoft made some strategic announcements re W10M / W10oA. I also would guess that Jason himself has an NDA with WB. 
So he knows more, but has to shut up in order not jeopardize the whole thing.  All in all, its a walk on a tightrope.   

Really good to see Greg responding on here and helping manage potential customers expectations. Really not sure MS are the best people to take advice from though, they've hardly covered themselves in glory with regards WP/W10m and managing the message.

The skepticism isn't really about Whartonbrooks and more about how they are simply another OEM that is being played by MS. If you think about all the directions MS is taking you realize that windows 10 mobile is simply a transitional OS. The bottom line is that windows 10 on ARM with an adaptive UI will likely be the future. So what does that leave for those who invested in windows 10 mobile which will be missing crucial features within a year or two if MS's plans do speed up. What is the upgrade path like for these phones? Unlike android/iphone, Windows phones are typically purchased at full price not subsidized by carriers in which you can change it quite often. All my windows phones have been full purchases. Heck I spent over $1k on the 950xl in Canada at the time of release and it quickly dropped in price. All I did was deal with nothing but problems and when the problems were finally fixed the price was way lower. And how can they possibly fix all the issues with windows 10 mobile like stability and other random quirks while MS is just not focusing on it. The app gap problem is big too. You can get popular by creating an android subsystem in Windows that runs android apps, sure. But then you pretty much are a windows fan that is dooming the windows ecosystem. There's really nothing that can be done without MS. MS pushed 2-in-1's and this is why OEMS did well with 2-in-1's. MS is seen as the leader and a leader to the whole world. What MS does reflects every company that works with them.

It all depends on your carrier of choice. I never pay full price for my Win Phones at Tmobile because of their Jump plan. Although they slowly adopt the handsets for less that they do Android devices, and there is only one new IPhone device out at a time. I still love the plan. Plus the price gap between the Wp, iPhone, and Android devices usually leaves Apple's and Google's consumers pockets empty quite often.

If it doesn't work on Verizon, it's of no use to me.

+1...if a new W10 phone works on the Verizon network, and is better than the 735, I am keenly interested. The "app gap" is a non-issue for me.

Verizon Windows users I feel need this the most...

I truly wish them the best. It'll be a tough, uphill battle with Microsoft still scorching the Mobile earth around them. More vendors and choice is always good. We need a viable 3rd platform to keep Apple and Google honest. It was bemusing last year to see the tech press pull a reverse Mark Antony and come to praise Windows Phone/Mobile after burying it. Being dependent on Verizon because of coverage, my general optimism is tempered by Microsoft's disdain and setting of the bar low for OEM support of their network. As to the WB radio silence - I'm sure they have a lot of outside investment. Any type of public statement, official, leak, otherwise, can have lasting legal implications.

Huge fan of Windows Mobile, but this is just vaporware (at this point).  I see a lot of PR mumbo jumbo from the company and little substance.

With all due respects to Mr. WhartonBrooks & Co...isn't anything that is produced today a guaranteed dead end product like WP7 devices to WP8?  Unless it uses the Snapdragon 835 processor (or better)...this will be orphaned by MS in 12 mos. no?  (Not to mention the 3 apps that will be left by then...)

I think you missed his point. It's not that he's trying to go back to reinvent WP7 or WP8, but instead he sees there were great features/aspects of WP7/8 that Microsoft totally abandoned in W10M.  He would like to find a way to modernize those and bring them into W10M, along with coming out with hardware that does a better job of hitting the mark with consumers than, say, that horrible Lumia 950 does.

That's great.  Doesn't work as a business model...any hardware that comes out today, w/o the 835 is dead.

Exactly. "All phones that shipped with W10M" becomes "all phones with a SD820" before they backtrack again to "only 6" phones with the SD835". We have been down this road many times before. Can't trust what Microsoft says, we just have to wait and see what they actually do.

How so? Because it won't run x86 apps in continuum? Most people buying a smartphone have no interest in doing that.

All the other Mobile device makers (Apple, Google/Android, and Third-Party) all iterate hardware in 12 month cycles, so why shouldn't Microsoft and their Third-Party makers benefit from those sales trends as well?

I'm open to this. I've been looking for an affordable replacement for my 640.

I appreciate the extra info.  As someone who is rocking the 950XL, I am looking towards the next.  The only thing is that Android users have their leaks.  The Note 8 is supposed to steal Microsoft's Continuum, etc, etc.  Some Windows fans may see that and start researching the Note 8.  So I think we need some 'unofficial' leaks of the next Windows powered phone.  Also, if WhartonBrooks is not making the Surface Phone then why should I look at this Celurean when the SP is on the horizon?  And Jason, please stop quoting the CEO starting as "Murphy says ".  I can't keep from thinking you are having some take at Murphy's law when you do this!

Surface Phone is even more vapor than this right now, and will probably 2x the price.

I will chip in $10 for them to upgrade shipping from ? to NBD AIR from China just so we can have an update on Monday, anyone else want to chip in? 

I thought the same thing! Just fly there and fly back with that s#%t. What's it on, a C-container on a boat? It's good to hear from him their continued optimism. I appreciate it and hope the best. I'll never leave Windows. To me it is in my blood of how I get things done, business and personal use, mobile and PC. I'm using an HP Elite x3. Just got my wife the Alcatel Idol now that it's sold unlocked and works on ATT. Beautiful phones that run Win 10 and look and feel great doing it. Wish I never had to go through the bs of the 950 & 950xl. Anyway, I'm waiting..

Probably Customs. I had a Moto-Maker DT2 from VZW a year ago that took 36 hours from clicking "Buy" on the web site to make I from Hong Kong to Memphis (Fed-Ex), and then spent 3 days waiting for Customs release. And that was for an established volume supply chain. I could easily see a one-off shipment taking a bit longer.

His comments are appreciated. While we still don't know much in way of specs for this phone (phones?) he has now given us a relatively specific timetable in which we should expect information. Saturday is 1/21/17. Ten days after that is 1/31/17. They'll need to do at least minimal testing to make sure the phone(s) works on the various carrier, so that puts us in the second or third week of February we should expect some news. That's my benchmark.

I look forward to hearing more after next week. I'll reserve judgement and at the same time I'm hoping for the best damn phone ever made.

I think Greg is correct in his approach.  Having said that, I think being just a little bit more proactive communicating what's driving delays would help reduce (although not eliminate) the anxiety the potential customer base might be expressing.  Obviously, when you're dealing with second and third parties for aspects of a product, particularly when they're in other countries, there's lag in test-to-results processes.  And, it is encouraging while at the same time discouraging that Microsoft is providing guidance.  It's encouraging in that, depending on the consultation, it would seem they are supportive of a new OEM effort the makes a point of recognizing Microsoft made a mistake in abandoning certain aspects of their OS.  It's discouraging, too, because I have so little faith in Microsoft as a company now that they could be undermining -- intentionally or unintentionally -- WhartonBrooks' effort.  I desperately want to see a device take over the mantle from the Lumia 1020, because there's no universe where Microsoft makes this happen--they have proven to me they are not capable of it. 

Microsoft is more than capable of creating a new L1020. They don't bother because people didn't buy it the first time. Sales were pathetic.

One thing that caught my eye was when he said they would testing sims from "several US carriers".  That make me wonder if this phone may be a "universal" phone, with both GSM and CDMA radios on board.  Granted, it would raise the costs of the chipset some, but imagine having a phone that works ANYWHERE in the world base on the SIM card it sees?  Talk about the perfect business phone.  Only thing better would having a dual-SIM slot, PLUS a micro-SD card slot seperate.  Now just have an added model with a BlackBerry-type physical keyboard and it would be perfect.  I would be one of the first to put money down on a phone like that.

You don't have to imagine that, because universal phones have been available for years now. My 3 year old Nexus 6 will recognize any SIM I put in.

Considering WhartonBrooks hasn't updated their Twitter, Facebook, podcasts, Stitcher or corporate sites for months, it's really hard to see their progress. I, for one, have been looking forward to their progress and would like to be a customer, but if so far, I've gone from optimistic to less than.

That's kind of the point in the article. MS recommended they didn't update until they had something concrete to update with. Hence the experiment. He gave some info in the comments and I guess we will all see how his experiment works. With this community, I assume it will backfire on him. Unfortunately.

+1...WB should not allow MS to dictate what is communicated.

I mean, we know this community, quite well. You don't meet an expectation or timeline you set, this community will rip them apart. We are not a forgetful community either. No reason to ruin a brand before it even launches. I tend to agree with MS here.

They don't need to make promises to keep us updated. Since they hadn't updated anything in months (that I could find,) I was wondering if they just went out of business.

Jason, I am still in the same position. It is hard to see plans Microsoft has at times. Needing support from device makers and companies is just not there anymore. WhartonBrooks/Cerulean are doing what Microsoft is needing from an OEM/ODM company. They just so happen to be a brand new start up. I do not think we have ever seen this from a Windows Mobile platform. They are popping up like weeds over the Android OS. Where excitement and hype can hurt even the biggest it is just as easy or more so for WB to get hurt. In that, just in what they are doing here, I am planning to buy the product even if it is to support their initial efforts. I am settled on using Windows 10 mobile anyway, so it won't hurt me at all to wait until they come with their best effort device.

Thanks Jason, I'm super pumped to see what they have going on.

Ignored the security issues then which is the biggest actual reason I don't want to move the android. That is hardly grasping at straws. Have you checked every one of the apps you have against that list because I certainly would be!
You hit the nail on the head. My android phone has 16 apps and then you need to scroll. I have 48 without the need to scroll and some of those are full sized tiles.
Exactly how is it dead? It's windows 10. It will be going as long as windows 10 is going and MS have stated numerous times they will not drop it. Please cite proof otherwise. Why so angry if you don't care..??

Sounds to me like they are TRUE fans of the platform. Anyone who has been around since the WP7S days knows the feeling of being promised grand plans, only to have the rug pulled out from under them multiple times ("sorry, your device can't upgrade to the new version") or have those plans under-delivered ("just wait until you see the features in the next version!"). I appreciate that they are keeping quiet until something definitive is ready to announce and sincerely hope that Cerulean becomes the next Lumia and much more. The obvious passion and talent gathering in the company is making me hopeful, but there is a very sobering reality that most people won't want a Windows 10 phone because of the numerous articles that have been published over the last year about the app gap and the alleged "death" of the platform. It's a major uphill battle, but with their singular focus and goal of being the biggest and best Windows phone manufacturer, they have the best chance out of any manufacturer at this point.

Must be unlocked. Must be faster than my L650. Must be lower cost than the Alcatel. Thanks.

So you want a flagship phone for a budget phone price. I would recommend not holding your breath waiting for that.

No, a mid range at a good price for me please.

W10m platform is imo very nice and fluid and fast. Some apps love Grover Pro are really high quality. The basics are there, if only the support was better from Microsoft.

#colormeCerulean I think the expanded mission is worth the wait. Looking forward to a successful test and wishing Greg and everyone at Wharton Brooks the best of luck. @GregMurphyCEOvisionary Any chance you guys will be at MWC in Barcelona no matter what? @LumiaDieHardFans The old days of Nokia Domination are gone from this platform. Give the Cerulean crew a break and wait to see if this deserves vitriol or praise. If you follow this carefully (and that does not mean reading all the comments from the peanut gallery in blog comments) you will find that these guys get it. Greg understands what you want/expect/deserve in a phone. I see more promise here for a tailored experience than any of the other 3rd party OEMs who are taking a cookie cutter approach. IMHO, only HP has shown much true initiative and their focus is business. #CeruleanForThePeople Peace.

Ok, I see a lot of people in this conversation talking about facts that they think they know about Apple or Google's Android Mobile OSs. It's quite ridiculous that most of their research is based on articles. They have really not done any fact checking. First, this conversation was introduced to discuss whether or not WhartonBrooks new offering of information was enough to keep and build interest in their up and coming product that will be coupled with the win 10 Mobile OS. I see rants about how we are MS fanboys and gals when we comment on the devices we love that run the Windows Mobile OSs. Everyone is due their opinion but in my opinion Apple can't be compared to Microsoft because of one key fact. Apple only has one Mobile device that they produce for their customers and I guess they are fine with the limitations their company of choice provides them, but that's not the case with Microsoft. They not only have their own devices but there are third-party devices as well. Google has this set up as well and is added Plus to It's Android Mobile OS equaling freedom of choice. Where i believe both companies fail (Apple and Google) is that Apple set a trend of less innovation and more hardware up grades that look like my PDA interface (UI) from the past. No matter what they add to them in the lines of features they are falling behind in those regards. Then there's Microsoft Mobile OS that is actually ahead of It's time. Plus without a lot of applications that Microsoft expands to the other Mobile OS makers they would be nothing but a PDA with the exception of Android which is coupled with Google doc, Drive, and other services that come and go with the wind. As for Apples Cloud ☁ services (iCloud) sucks and is just for small storage as such a need of a PDA. To bring my long statment to a close I am surrounded by people that have IPhones and Android devices that ultimately rely on Microsoft applications to get their daily jobs done, so why not have a device that has all of that baked in. It takes courage to step away from the pack and do research before consuming. I would say if my trend following was in danger of being debunk because of stagnant innovation I would try to stamp it out so i would not be exposed as just being a follower (a sheep). I'm interested to see how WhartonBrooks devices pan out and will remain a Windows Mobile OS to the End. P.s. I'm a Alcatel Idol 4s owner and loving 😍 it!!!

How is Windows Mobile's interface innovative? It is nearly identical to WP7 that was launched 6 years ago! Putting squares around icons is innovation? A single column app drawer is innovative? Randomly flipping information with no interactivity is innovative? The answer is no, Windows Mobile is not innovative. Its interface was not innovative 6 years ago when they launched it and now, 6 years later with minimal changes and complete failure in the market, it certainly can't be called innovative. Microsoft's Arrow launcher is much more innovative compared to Windows Mobile and the platform that allows the flexibility to easily change the interface on a billion plus devices is really innovative.

The live tile start screen is what is innovative on WP. Still is, always will be. Get it? It is completely different than the other 2. Something wrong with that?
Single column app drawer? Far better than page after page of apps like the other 2.
So what do you want MS to do? Make it exactly like Android?
You hate WP so much, why are you even here?

Agreed

It is literally the exactly same as the other two platforms but the icons are forced into being resizable squares. Where again is the innovation in that? Live Tiles are just gimped, square widgets. No innovation there. If this is what is innovative about Windows phones, no wonder they failed. The app drawer in Windows phone is an endless vertical page with minimal icons on screen. The Android app drawer can be anything you want. Not much more to say about that. iPhone fits way more apps on screen. The space inefficiency of Windows phone app drawer is insane and there is no way to fix it.

Horses for courses, you like one thing, we like another, you can never force someone to change their mind. But do please go and look up the definition of literally!!

Obviously you don't know how to use the app list. Did you know that you tap on a letter on the list which brings up all of the letters of the apps on the phone which from there you go directly to the app you want to launch? Fast and efficient. No scrolling through long list of apps. Whatever, you don't like WP, no use dabating anything with you..

If you know the name of the app you would just type it into the search bar and have it immediately. If you don't know the name you are scrolling forever. I have Windows Phones. I am ready for Microsoft to make something compelling. More of the same is getting old.

Contextual search would be great. Devs can put tags for their app. If you want a photo app but the name doesn't have photo, search photo and you should get a list with name listed first and then tags.

You can do the same thing with Windows Mobile OS. Smh. It's obvious you have not tired a Windows phone. Plus it gives you other choices not on your phone in the store.

I find the app list to be easier for quick scanning as to much at once like android takes me longer to find the apps. nor the start screen can also become too carried of you're pulling all these different colored tiles and have lots of folders. I stick to very clean translucent designs. Also would prefer the text was center justified like the icon, again easier on the mind to process. I get ms did it because of live tile information but that's not a live tile, it's the icon, represent it correctly. Small things like that really weren't thought out well. I need to do a Photoshop on my start screen to center text to see how it looks and show ms. Hehe

Re: scdkaf,
Agreed. Chicklet icons look so outdated to me.

Wake up and wipe the sleep 💤 from your eyes. You definitely don't get it. Ok here's the Non-Win OS offerings in an analogy. I'm going to keep give you the same shirt to buy every time you shop, but I'll just change the color and the way I stich it together. I'm sure you won't notice.

You are describing Windows phone. iPhone: this is the shirt, it is available in three colors and three sizes and doesn't have a left arm hole. Hopefully you are right handed. Windows Phone: this is the shirt, it is available in several colors, sizes and you can even choose the stitching. The manufacturer doesn't make them anymore though, so good luck finding one, especially the one you want. Android: there are hundreds of different style shirts in any color or size or style you want. The options are endless, but it might spontaneously combust and/or send your data to China.

Miss understood your post

What did I say about the keyboard?!

But you can do a lot of what you do on android with wm. Check out the start screen thread. You can even replace with android icons. There's an app that has icon packs. I was debating making one for myself. You can put images over multiple tiles, make them transparent. Folders work better. Looks amazing with translucency. It's the best looking os no doubt. Android is nice now with nougat but they are following a similar flat design to ms and even cards which were around forever on Windows. Look at ios following Windows with the rich notifications. I like to have a pretty start as I look at it all day. I don't really care too much for live tiles. Only useful for some apps. Interactive would definitely be a step up. Spending more time on the stay screen instead on inside apps when needing to do things quickly.

Yes, and we could talk for hours about the looks and appearance.  Windows 10 Mobile is not a knock out of the park as far as design and looks, but it is getting there...and keeps improving. This I like.  For ME Microsoft has some how nailed it with a balance between simplicity and functionality in all the apps I use. For me I have found no other mobile OS to be like this.  iOS comes pretty close, and the AOSP android phones do an OK job...This keeps me always interested and on top of my daily stuff with ease.  I do not have to dig through 5 sub windows to find items, or figure out how to tweak my keyboard in 15 different ways so that I can fluidly use that. All this before I even see what the phone itself can do.  Functionality-wise I have found WP8 started me onto this path, with W10M it does an awesome job and is currently my favorite.

The entire WM interface is old, slow and poorly designed for 2017. Yes, the iphone has a boring homescreen, but it can afford to have one as it is not on the edge of doom like winmo.

Two pieces of advice:
1) Grow thick skin and ignore the critics and the haters here.
2) Either be even more transparent or just shut down the PR machine and keep quiet until launch. Expounding your "vision" or "mission" just raises questions you can't or won't answer. You need to help set expectations. At this point you should have a good idea about the design, the specs, key features and target price points. This is what people want to know.

I was a raving windows fan up until about 3 months ago. I wanted this Wharton thing to succeed, I wanted to see a surface phone. I believed in the oneCore future. Lately as yet another app I use disappeared from windows, I have become much more silent in my ravings. The constant loss of good apps, in a currently app filled world is disheartening. Yes bots and web apps may be the future, but I'm tired of waiting for the future with little in the here and now on windows phone. Apps are now. You need to maintain the status quo, until you have the paradigm shift device actually shipping to customers. I feel the longer it takes for windows to produce something compelling, the greater the paradigm shift they will have to make to get people excited. A little better than the status quo won't be enough. Especially if it can be intergrated on other platforms within a year. Windows has been completely written off my so many people in the phone world for so long, windows is going to have to produce something unbelievably extrordinary, that has years on other manufacturers to make a dent in the status quo. The longer they wait, the higher they will have to aim. I'll keep my 640XL for now, but when it is time to upgrade, if there isn't anything incredibly earth shattering from Windows, I'll probably try apple. Although their walled garden really turns me off, but I see it as the next best thing in the market. Android seems like just a fragmented mess with a worse problem than windows. The apps are available, just not for your preferred device.

I have not seen an app that's not available for new android phones. The only problem comes using very old phones like my note 1, and then, you STILL have all the main apps that most people use. I think the only app that won't work on my note 1, that I use on my iPhone 6s is Texture. That could be because they only write it for tablets on android. But The note 1 still skips along and is pretty fast using arrow launcher. I use it for work and taking square payments and using the note pen to sign for the work! My ONLY issue with windows mobile/phone/windows on devices which are mobile smaller than 7" is the total lack of apps. that's it. ONLY THING! That ONLY THING is a HUGE thing however. Just like there are a big group of features left off macOS that are on windows 10....touchscreen, ink, edge browser, I could go on and on. Apple has a lot of catching up to do with MacOS, but it is the flip side in mobile. MS shot themselves in the foot with the latest retrench. Should have kept trucking.....

He definitely has my attention. I'm skeptical as to whether I'll be able to use his phone or not, since Verizon is the only option in the area I live, and Verizon is the carrier that is least likely to work with him. I certainly hope that he is successful, and if he gets his phone on Verizon and it is as good as it sounds like he wants it to be, I'll definitely be looking closer. My Icon is more than two and a half years old, and it would be nice to be able to move up, but it's got to have a camera at least as good as the Icon's. I'd love to be a part of his team in developing this, but alas, no way could I move to CT from GA. ;)

What @hopmedic said. If it has a camera at least as good as Icon (and presumably by now a faster processer) and runs on Verizon, I will look seriously with a likelihood of being a customer. And if it's decent, I'll buy at least one for my wife and one for me. I WANT to support the platform. I'll happily buy direct -- don't need or particularly care about carrier subsidy. But, I'm obviously not going to downgrade to a lesser model. I'm only interested in a phone I can be proud of, presumably that means a flagship, but I'm open minded on that. And at this point, I'd really expect Continuum support too. I suspect Verizon is going to be the kicker. Even if @Jason Ward and Greg Murphy can't reveal other details, why can't they disclose if it's possible to put a new phone on Verizon's network? My Icon runs Windows 10 well on Verizon. What's stopping new Windows 10 phones from working on Verizon? Maybe that's not a permitted disclosure. If so, fair enough, but that's the most frustrating part for me. And in case it helps, I'd point out again: Verizon would be a great market for a startup like Wharton Brooks, because there is no competition. All of the other phones are fighting over the handful of Windows Phone users on TMobile and AT&T. Sprint and Verizon (CDMA carriers) have nothing newer than the Icon. I'm sure many have already move on, but for those of us who still have Icons, I suspect many of us are holding out hope for a new option, and will eagerly jump on the first viable choice that comes along. That's the perfect beachhead market opportunity for WB.

What keeps a new phone from working on Verizon is two things. First, it has to have CDMA radios in it, because Verizon's (and Sprint's) network doesn't use the GSM that the rest of the world is on. Then, whether the phone has CDMA radios or not, Verizon has the last word. Even though Verizon's LTE phones have a SIM card, it's not as simple as just popping in a sim. The phone has to have an IMEI that they have in their database, or the phone will never connect. The biggest hurdle in all of this is getting the phones' IDs into Verizon's database - and that's where Verizon's testing and approval process comes in, whatever that is.

@Jason Ward, yeah, I'm glad for the info. I like that Wharton Bros gets to stay in the public eye with these stories and their announcements. As done here, just be honest about the risk and uncertainty, so we know things could be further delayed or fall thorough. But main thing for me is that the phone must be technically superior to the Lumia Icon and work on Verizon. I wish we could at least learn from Greg Murphy what's the story with trying to put out a phone on Verizon. There must be something interesting going on there that seems to be stopping everyone from doing this in spite of the complete lack of competition and pent up demand among those of us on Verizon ready to jump on the first good new Windows Phone that runs on our CDMA network. Tell us that story!

good luck for WhartonBrooks  

I wish the best for WB, but i really don't hear or see anything to really get excited over anymore. If it happens it happens, I'm already looking toward android. I'm not a fan boy and only been using windows since 2014, my first WP being a Lumia 1520. Best phone I ever had next to my LG G2. I'm on my second L1520 ( my son cracked my first one ) I had the 640, 650 and 950. The 950 was the worst, just to many problems with heating up and battery drain. So anyways went back to my 1520. I said all that to say I have enjoyed WPs but when compared to others , let's say I'm tired of looking forward to the next Messiah of windows phones while other are making things happen. Or waiting around for the fine tuning of the W10 OS on mobile, I do hope WB can achieve what they set out for. But I won't be waiting.

I hope they will succeed. Will wait and see what they can do as a startup. I doubt I will see flagship level phones, so I won't be interested personally in terms of buying for myself. But if they succeed in getting WM more popular and grow the ecosystem, I fully support them, and perhaps buy one for family members.

Sorry, this is basic stakeholder management: 1) Update regularly 2) Don't be vague 3) When updating, ensure the stakeholders can see ~progress~ (two steps forward, one step back is fine; no steps forward or one step forward, two steps back, is NOT).  And I'm sorry, band management in GSM/UMTS/LTE is not a black box anymore, it's a mature science and all the Chinese ODM's have it down pat with all the mature SOC product lines, so no, I don't buy the "testing the bands" line.  Now, if Greg is referring to testing because he's not sure of the -quality- of the pilot product, that's something different, but once again, he's only bothered to explain that now.  And so I think Jason, the best thing to have us on board is to stop writing about this company, give them the time to develop and release a market ready phone, and THEN they can announce something.  Those who do don't talk, and those who talk don't do, as the saying goes.

Good to know. Even something a simple as this is nice to know that they are still working. I am excited to see what they come up with.

I wish WhartonBrooks all the best of luck. I'm interested.

Can't wait to see what they come up with. Am a huge fan of Windows Phone and will never be skeptical about it. Hv used Apple and Android phones in the past but they do not inspire me. Do not find anything new in them. WP is a different story...been using it for good time and it still feels new. As a platform, it is already well differentiated.

who the F cares! Windows 10 mobile is dead meat..no apps, poor performance, mediocre design and totally LACK of support and trust from MS.

Well you seem to care for one, if you don't care why are you so angry. Then there is the fact MS have repeatedly said it isn't dead so that is just your opinion. No apps is quite clearly wrong, just open the store. It doesn't say "nothing to see here" so that is just over exaggeration. Poor performance. Debatable and depends on hardware, my 950XL beats the crap out of my developer Android phone in all tasks. Mediocre design, that's just personal preference, I for one like iOS but really don't like Android, but I prefer Windows. Lack of support, erm, Insider releases (with the exception of Christmas) come out almost every two weeks, bit weird for that to happen on a dead platform with no support wouldn't you say. Now if you don't have any actual facts to add or intelligent insight to offer then all you are doing here is being a small child getting angry for no reason at all..

Got served ?

deleted

I hope the samples works! I'm looking very hard at an android device now to replace my L1020.

I am looking to upgrade from my 640. If WhartonBrooks can release a phone this year that works on the AT&T network, I will very likely buy one.

https://twitter.com/ceruleanmobile/status/823019627240443904

Yeah, that fay guy together with Jason are conducting an experiment. How many articles could be written about something that doesn't exist.
Religions are doing it for centuries after all. You just have to BELIEVE.

http://www.whartonbrooks.com/new-episode-to-our-story-on-stitcher-and-more/

Interesting approach this company has. But hey, ANY news is good news at this point. If they can get a decent device to Verizon (before Surface Phone) I'm in...no questions asked. Here I am talking about two mythical devices again.............. It's hard to tell which one is more real at times. Doesn't matter. If they keep making Windows Phones, I'll keep buying.