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This is why Microsoft keeps 'starting over' with Windows Phone

Over the weekend, an article appeared on Digital Trends entitled "Microsoft needs to stop starting over with Windows Phone". The commentary in question put forth the idea that Microsoft is rebooting Windows Phone a third time with Windows 10 in 2015 and that this is an issue. The odd reasons cited for this being a problem span from the OS being inconsistent to "driving app developers and users crazy".

The Digital Trends article is flawed in many ways, but I believe this is, once again, a perception issue that is probably not uncommon in tech media, especially ones that do not live and breathe Microsoft news. For that reason, I would like to articulate a more accurate position on the changes Microsoft has gone through in the last few years.

Windows Phone – Photon versus Windows Phone 7

Back in 2010, Microsoft did reboot Windows Phone 6.5 to Windows Phone 7. This shift remains one of the largest breaks in terms of overall OS design and app implementation in the history of Windows Mobile. Even the naming convention was in flux at this time, as Microsoft was using Windows Mobile and Windows Phone interchangeably during the 6 and 6.5 years.

The alternative for Microsoft was 'Photon', the next iteration of Windows Phone 6.5 that would have likely gone to the 7.x marker. Photon was a continuation of the design philosophy of Windows Mobile, with new improvements and a legacy of development issues (references for it go back to 2005). Not too much is known about Photon, although it was revealed in its early form under NDA to various people in the press.

This is the short of it. Microsoft faced two paths: Go the safe route with 'Photon' or ditch everything and go with Windows Phone 7. They daringly chose the latter, nuking all of their previous Windows Mobile efforts.

Windows Phone 7 as we now know it borrowed heavily from the Zune HD menu system, which itself grew out of Windows Media Center. This text-driven and minimalist design philosophy would eventually take over many of Microsoft's products, including Windows itself. At the time, it was referred to as Metro, though due to a trademark claim, most people just call it Modern.

The point being: If there were a time where you could point your finger at Microsoft for a radical change in the OS, it would be a shift from Windows Mobile 6.5.3 to Windows Phone 7. However, due to the success of the iPhone, the rise of Android, and the inability for Windows Mobile to hold market share, a fundamental departure was needed for Microsoft.

As far as I know, this decision is uncontroversial and in hindsight considered to be the right one given Microsoft's management at the time.

Windows Phone 7 to Windows Phone 8 – The rise of the NT kernel

Another shift came when Microsoft introduced Windows Phone 8 in June 2012. The change here though was more about the underlying bits of the OS, referred to as the kernel. Going all the way back to Pocket PC 2000 through Windows Mobile and Windows Phone 7, the kernel driving the OS was Windows CE (now known as Windows Embedded Compact). Windows CE was the foundation that Microsoft could build upon for Windows Mobile Classic, Windows Mobile Standard, and Windows Mobile Professional.

The reason Microsoft swapped the kernel from Windows CE to Windows NT is two-fold: Windows CE was old, limited, and made for another time. Much like how Skype was not built to be a mobile VOIP or messaging system, Windows CE has some severe limitations limiting its potential for Windows Phone.

The second reason Microsoft shifted from the CE to NT kernel for Windows Phone is more compelling than it just being archaic. Microsoft had already set in motion the "three screens and a cloud" vision back in 2011. In order to get Windows Phone on the same page as Windows desktop, they needed to share an underlying support structure, which is the NT kernel. In other words, this shift was purely strategic and preparatory for what we now know as Windows 10.

None of those reasons match with what Sherman claims in his Digital Trends article, specifically "Due to Windows Phone 7's limited success, Microsoft essentially started over for its app developers and users alike…" This claim is just false. It was purely strategic.

However, this chronology of events does raise the question: Why did Microsoft not switch to the NT kernel for Windows Phone 7 and instead wait two years? On the face of it, this does seem like shortsightedness but the reality is banaler: time. Working on OS kernels and replacing it in the OS is not something that one does overnight. From APIs to extensions, wiping out the foundation of the OS while keeping its façade is intricate work. Back when Windows Phone 7 was taking shape, the CE foundation was the quickest route to market. Presumably had Microsoft wanted to go right to NT, Windows Phone 7 would have been delayed by a year or two, ceding even more market and mindshare to Microsoft's competitors. Ship now fix later.

Interestingly, for users, the UI experience was nearly identical during this time, regardless of Sherman claiming in his Digital Trends article "Microsoft seems unable to decide what its mobile experience should be like." Any changes in the OS design was to continue evolving the experience, no different than how the iOS design has evolved. If there is one thing you can credit Microsoft with it is being extremely consistent with its Modern UI since 2010.

Apps on Windows Phone 8 were backwards compatible with Windows Phone 7 versions, though not the other way around. This limitation is perhaps the one sticking point: if you had a Windows Phone 7 or 7.5 phone, you are unable to get newer 8.0-only apps. The flipside to this is a bit cruel but accurate: Microsoft's market share was so small, that the ripple effect would be minimal.

In a perfect world, the transition from Windows Phone 7 to Windows Phone 8 would have been more continuous. However, the new developer tools, flexibility, and potential of Windows Phone OS made it worth it.

Going to Windows 10 for phone

Windows 10 is the next iteration of Microsoft's operating system, and it spans from PC to tablet to phones. The current upgrade path for Windows Phone 8 users is currently unknown, but modern devices should be upgradable. The only reason Windows Phone 7 devices could not be upgraded to Windows Phone 8 back in 2012 is that it is an entirely new OS that needed flashing to the phone (that kernel thing again). Although technically possible, the risks involved were greater than keeping the current OS and updating bits of it.

Windows 10 though is a tremendous accomplishment for Microsoft. It represents the first time their operating systems is unified across all devices. Everything from the app Store to the developer tools work across all of these systems, giving consumers one-shared experience.

Why this is not a problem

Assuming you agree with Microsoft's philosophy of uniting their operating systems, the path they took to get there was likely unavoidable. Much criticism can be hurled at Microsoft for their past mobile strategy but given the situation in 2009-2010, Windows Phone 7 was the best they could do.

Is this confusing to customers? I do not believe it is. Most of the technical gobbledygook outlined here is for those who follow OS development. For consumers, Windows Phone 7 looks a lot like Windows Phone 8.1 and even Windows 10. Sure, the UI has evolved based on how people use their phones but the core UI experience is the same as it was four years ago.

When it comes to apps and compatibility, the issue has been older devices cannot run newer apps. This limitation, however, stopped with the Windows Phone 7 to 8 transition. The latest estimates put Windows Phone 7 at just 15% of users left on the platform, with the remaining 85% on Windows Phone 8 or 8.1. The problem has never been the newer phones could not run older apps, which would be more devastating to the app catalog, users and developers.

What about developers? Many changes occurred over the years for developers on Windows Phone, especially with the 8.0 shift in 2012. Windows 10 also brings more deviations. However, change in and of itself is not automatically a bad thing. Windows 10 makes coding for developers easier with universal apps that can run anywhere.

In the Digital Trends article, Joshua Sherman laments "Unfortunately, Microsoft has done little in its Windows Store to prove it can effectively build apps across such a great scale." The problem here is that developers can already share upwards of 80 to 90 percent of their code for Windows Phone 8.1 and Windows 8.1 apps. Microsoft's goal is to get that to 100 percent with scaling for platforms done on their back end during app submissions. Microsoft has already built a platform to build apps across scale, and it is here today. Windows 10 just takes it further.

The worst condemnation by Sherman is near the end of the article where he notes:

"At worst, Windows smartphone owners will yet again be left behind as developers focus on the far more popular desktop version of the OS. Along the way Microsoft will certainly anger users and developers looking for a consistent OS experience."

This complaint is completely antithetical to the goals of Windows 10. There is no reason to believe that an app developer will make an app for PCs but skip over one for phone. The developer tools for Windows 10 make it an option to spit out an app for Windows Phone with barely any extra work to make it happen. The only reason a developer would not make an app for the phone would be out of spite at this point. I do not understand the last bit from Sherman about people looking for a consistent OS experience—this is exactly what Windows 10 does on all levels. Users of Android or iOS certainly do not have a consistent OS experience when jumping to desktop.

Finally, Sherman finishes with this doozy:

"This move from Windows Phone to Windows 10 may simply reverse its efforts to win over developers and users to its mobile OS. We'll have to wait and see what Microsoft announces in the coming weeks to see the true extent of this merger between Windows and Windows Phone. Whatever happens, Microsoft needs to decide once and for all the future of its mobile platform, or it may alienate the few loyal users it still has."

Microsoft decided years ago the future of their mobile platform with "three screens and a cloud". Windows 10 is the realization of that mantra. Switching to the NT kernel in 2012 laid out the groundwork for Windows 10 to happen on the phone. Everything Microsoft is doing is to make development ridiculously easy on Windows 10 for phone, PC, tablet, laptop, even Xbox One. This benefit already exists with Windows RT apps for Windows Phone 8.1 e.g. the Tweetium app for Twitter. It gets better with Windows 10.

I do concede that Microsoft's strategy needs to be proved in the real world. However, the path leading up to Windows 10 has been very deliberate starting with Windows Phone 8 in 2012 and its NT kernel base. Microsoft could have certainly been more aggressive in the early days of mobile, perhaps attenuating some of these changes, but it is not clear that these shifts could be completely avoided either. Should Google or Apple decided to go down this path of OS unification, they too will face many challenges but with greater risks due to larger market share.

Change is never easy, but Windows 10 represents the culmination of a fascinating philosophy for technology in which users share the same experience across all of their devices, regardless of the medium. How Microsoft executes this strategy in 2015 will be exciting to watch, but Windows 10 is not something to scold them over just yet.

Daniel Rubino is the Executive Editor of Windows Central, head reviewer, podcast co-host, and analyst. He has been covering Microsoft here since 2007, back when this site was called WMExperts (and later Windows Phone Central). His interests include Windows, Microsoft Surface, laptops, next-gen computing, and arguing with people on the internet.

646 Comments
  • If they don't upgrade current phones then I'm out...
  • Lumia 935 please
  • Dude you must have a lot of cash huh.. Lumia 935??.... Well i hope you get one when it comes
  • A truly rich person can and will buy a new AMG Mercedes to his/her cousins,
    not just some cheap Lumia phones...well...a prototype could involve some extra payments oiling...
  • I see.. Is that so??
  • I donno...me not rich...could be...perhaps not ...on the other hand maybe so
    are you asking for my old model?
  • Oh yeah i am..... Perhaps.. Maybe so... Lol :-)
  • "A truly rich person" Doesn't drive a Mercedes.
  • A wise answer. You're right. There is already available example: An arab from the royal family wanted to show off his wealth, then ordered an unique built car named Lotec to a car designer, spend over 12M $ for establishment the designing garage. many part are borrowed from other manufacturer but that guy upgraded its car with more logical engine department and the designer made so called Sirius model for Lotec. A person who is not wealthy, in most cases his brain is not vaster thinking,so: There is Vertu Smartphone, that guy prefer iPhone, There is Rolls-Royce, that guy prefer S Class Mercedes,  There is Diamond jewelry, that guy prefer sapphire, ruby, etc. There is garden covered houses, that guy prefer pent house, There is real collection of cars, that guy prefer Forza motorsport 5 or Gran Turismo 6 ;) There are laboratories full of tools to develop or create or even learn something, that guy prefer Virtual Machines or Simulations. There is space tour, that guy prefer cambodia, Finally there are lakes in garden of houses, that guy prefer to fishing on a pond! he he ;)
  • "A truly rich person" doesn't drive. Its chauffeur does.
     
  • The chauffor may drive the Rolls or Bentley
    but he certainly does not drive the Ferrari!!
  • The OS plans seem solid, waiting to hear more details, but the hardware plans are pissing me off right now. To anyone in the US who bought a Lumia 900/920, two years ago, the lack of a 2014 flagship phone (on AT&T/Tmobile/Sprint) is a giant kick in the nuts. There is no excuse for the lack of high end product on 3 of the major carriers. Yes major plans for one high end phone fell through, but there should have been 2 or 3 high end phones planned for the last half of this year. Why wasn't there a new phablet (1530), a new camera phone (1030) and an either a plan to bring the 930 to every US carrier or offer an updated model (935) on every major US carrier. The focus on the low end market is smart and I understand it's reasoning, but it doesn't mean abandoning the high end users of your platform. You abandon the high end users (900, 1000, 1500 users) and you risk losing all the most vocal supporters of your platform.    When McLaren got cancelled I heard Daniel Rubino say that Microsoft/Nokia had other high end phones coming later this year. It seemed reasonable at the time, but now he says there's nothing other than the One M8. They took a risk with one phone (Mclaren) and it didn't work out; understood. But to not have any additional plans beyond that one phone makes the decision to cancel it unacceptable to me; it makes the poor planning unacceptable to me.
  • I agree that a 1020 successor is well overdue, but with that being said, Lumia Denim should bring improvements to the 1020 that will make it flagship-like long enough to hold off on another successor. In terms of the 1520, it's not even a year old yet. The hardware in that phone still surpasses many of the high end flagship phablets on the market and is still a strong contender in its respective market. The specs are the same as the 930/Icon, which is a new flagship...why would they release another so soon? I really don't see them adding much to the successors of either phones aside from the latest processors, but it's anything but necessary, especially for how well Windows runs on any system. Heck, even the 920 has better specs than the iPhone 6 and still works like a charm...they have plenty of time to make a new flagship. You can't rush perfection.
  • I guess MSFT is also waiting to see how windows 10 actually turns out when it is finally out. And if W10 turns out to be what they have planned then we would soon see the 1030s and the 1530s. May be as early as April2015:-)
  • Actually the 1020 wasn't on the list I saw that was getting Denim which is why I ditched it (gave it to my folks) and got a 930.
  • Just be patient and wait.... Why do you guys always want something new from something that just came out..... You keep on buying every thing that catches your eye... Then you got some serious balls man.... If you don't stop this....ii want Lumia 935 and all that.. You'll buy any new windows phone which is a flagship for the rest of your life
  • Denim is coming to all windows 8.1 handsets
  • Actually, according to Juha Alakarhu,  Lumia Denim will bring only minimalist improvements to Lumia 1020. This happens because the hardware inside Lumia 1020,  especially the microprocessor, is too old for Lumia Denim. So,  right now,  Nokia by Microsoft is in an awkward position. Their camera phone,  the best camera phone on the market,  can't use the improvements from a firmware update that is targeted mainly on photography functionalities. Sad,  but true. 
  • The 1020 will still get camera improvements, it just isn't capable of doing anything in 4K resolution, which is fine.  People expect too much. Things move on. By the time Windows 10 arrives for full release I'd expect there to be a successor to the 1020 anyway and most people will be due a new phone too.
  • That is the problem of not updating or actually refreshing the phone.The 1020 is a true flagship phone that deserves refreshing with newer processors, upgraded memory and storage. The 1020 could be an example of what is wrong with carrier exclusives.
  • They don't have a lot of time.  They need something now to compete with the iPhone 6 Plus and Note 4.  It doens't matter if the 1520 is comparable.  You can only by it directly from one major carrier in the U.S.  I have T-Mobile.  Most T-Mobile customers will buy their phone from a T-Mobile store.  Not many of them will buy a Lumia 635 if they're shopping for a high-end Phablet.  In fact, no one will buy a Lumia 635 if they're looking for a high end phone.   Apple is like Pac Man eating up the high end market right now.  If MS doens't hurry, there won't be any ghosts left to stop Pac Man. Good luck trying to make a decent profit on the low end with all the competition.      
  • They have all the time in the world. Who says they have to follow Apple and Samsung's release times for new phones? I know they messed up by not making the 1520 available on multiple carriers which is probably why it seems "obsolete", but there isn't really much they can improve on at this point...maybe just the design of the phone but that's it...the phone is still perfect.
  • But the 1020 can be refreshed and should have been.
  • What's wrong with 1520 though? All it needs are software/firmware upgrades.
  • Nothing is wrong with it.  But, I agree.  It's over-due for the next gen, along with other Lumia lines.  1520 is only available at 16 gig on ATT.  Shameful.  It could use a resolution upgrade, processor and video capturing enhancements and a diet (lose some weight), Stylus? Sony has done 6 month incements with it's Xperia Z line.  I think the Xperia Z3 will be very successful.
  • Thats interesting, my ATT branded 1520 is a 32 gig model. I didnt know it was never offered...  
  • My 1520 isn't on att, and its 32gig. Att doesn't exist here. There is more to the world than America, my friend. Make use of that, buy an unlocked phone. Also I do not understand your eagerness to make phones obsolete. New lineup once a year is fine. The 930/1520 hardware is still fresh and super snappy.
  • If you guys are worried about that... Then your phones from places with no carrier networks....i use a 520....n no carrier network... Gets every update released once it's on the list
  • Well that's just AT&T. Here in the UK we have 32gb with built in wireless charging. The phone is slim. The screen is fantastic. The processor is more than good enough and the video/photo enhancements will come with Denim and further firmware tweaking. Sony aren't doing very well. The Z3 is a great phone but like HTC they should consider doing a WP version as it would be easy to do. Even if it's just the Z3 Compact which is a great phone.  Overall it won't sell that well or not as well as they'd want.
  • Most people with a 2 year contract don't want to re-up their contract on a year old phone. If it was up to me I would put out a Lumia 1430 with a 5.5" screen and Snapdragon 801 processor by December. Many people complained the Lumia 1520 was a little too big for them, so why not give them an alternative a year later. At the very least bring the Lumia 1520 to more carriers in the US. The lack of choice in the US market drives me insane. The Windows Phone selection on T-mobile and Sprint is horrendous and even AT&T is starting to get bad with no good Windows Phones released in the last year. The only carrier that has gotten any support from Windows Phone in 2014 is Verizon. This is a disgraceful effort on the part of Microsoft in 2014 to provide anything other than the cheapest most disposable phones to most carriers.
  • Hey even the cheapest and most disposable WP is better then the cheapest disposable android phone just saying
  • I don't get why people want a successor to a phone every year, exactly why I didn't bother looking at Android and minor increments in hardware/ not optimizing IOS to run just as well on older generation phones as it does on the latest model is the reason why I got away from Apple.
    I don't mind waiting 3 years for a phone that's gonna run better than 3 iterations of ifail devices.
    I do understand where you're coming from , waiting too long to release flagships makes some feel neglected, and even more so in the US with carrier locked devices and such. Out of curiosity how easy it hard is it to get an unlocked device? I live in NZ where you pretty much but a device outright and throw in whatever SIM you want.
  • Exactly dude.. Tell them. Tell them to use what they have
  • The waiting game, trademarked by Microsoft. Instead of waiting, I switched to the iPhone, and will probably switch back to WP10. I just didn't want to keep my 920 any longer...
  • Waiting is annoying...i get it... But changing phones anyhow.... C'mon
  • I like to try new things. Besides, I like all oses.
  • Enjoy your iBend tech... Lol
  • I have the 6, not the 6 plus. Mine hasn't bent yet and no scratches. Even with my case on the phone, it's still thinner and lighter than my 920. 
  • I agree completely about the need to get a flagship to market soon.  My wife and I were looking forward to upgrading our L920s to McLarens, but they're off the table now (hopefully MS will resurrect McLaren with Win10).  The Icon/930 would be nice, if they had only offered it with a display that supports Glance (an app that I use more than just about any other, allowing me to instantly monitor my top e-mail accounts and apps without even touching the phone).  They shouldn't have marketed it as a flagship device, since it couldn't perform everything that 2 year old Lumias, even economy models could perform, especially for a minor cost impact, which flagship buyers are not sensitive to.
  • Some of those outdated phones would be a welcome arrival on my carrier. Sprint's only option is the Samsung ativ s. 
  • My God, man. Don't be such a dumbass. Why would they release a 1530 now when there has been no major new processors released since the 1520 was launched? Do you want them to just slap the numbers 1530 on a 1520 so they can take your money? The 1520 is as state of the art as any phone on the market, regardless of when it was released. No phone outperforms it. Now granted, they could pop a 801 SD in a 1020 replacement and that would be nice. They will either do that prior to the holidays, our wait till the next Snap Dragon is released.
  • Tell them!!
  • What are you talking about, no major processor has been released? The Qualcomm Snapdragon 808 and 810 processors were released in April, with more power, efficiency and full support for cameras up to 55mp(1030 anyone?). The first phone utilizing these chips are expected as soon as early 2015. We may even see one by December.
  • I agree, I will be holding on to my Lumia 925 until a true flagship phone comes out. Waiting this long, is also killing me. :(
  • This is exactly correct.   Why can't MSFT just do three lines of phones:
    Small: 830 4" screen Medium: 1030  5" Screen Large: 1530 6" Screen Make them each with the same internals (except battery), great optics, and UPDATE THE SOFTWARE TWICE A YEAR.   I want to upgrade from my 1520 and there is nothing on the market except, well another 1520.   Great.  And the recent news that MSN is back makes me want to get out of the Windows ecosystem and just go with Mac for everything.   The only consistency is inconsistency, and what seems to be "flavor of the year" mentality.  I've been with Windows mobile since 5.0 and I'm still stuck in the perpertual "wait until the next release".   And frankly I'm tired of waiting and trying to be a brand ambassador for a company that seems to defeat only themselves.
  • In my opinion, Microsoft is currently on the right track. They only need max 5 phones:
    1) medium sized low-end phone
    2) medium sized mid-range niche phone
    3) medium high-end niche phone
    4) medium high-end flagship
    5) large high-end flagship
    As of right now, these would be the 735, 830, 1020, 930, and 1520. I agree that we're overdue for a 1520 successor but only because it was only released on ATT and it's too far in its life to be re-released on other carriers. I'm in Canada so we don't have any of these phones lol, but I just buy off contract so to me it doesn't seem like anything is needed, but I know Microsoft's in trouble.
  • This is why I sent a tweet to @Windows asking for what's ahead with the Windows Phone hardware.  The software is great but, they need to get on par and not just catching up with Apple in terms of hardware.  Send tweets and ask your Windows Phone friends to do the same.  Microsoft needs to get this message across that there are high-end Windows Phone users who are loyal and being very patient for them to deliver.  Enough with the beauty of software, let's have the greatest hardware design this time.
  • Yeah, me too. Getting sick of undeveloped apps and getting stabbed in the back by Microsoft itself (Skype sucks, office no updates, first microsoft apps published on android first)
  • Agree with Skype. It's horrible.
  • its horrible plus they deleted some feature from it
  • Totally agree
  • yup Microsoft rly should keep their eye on their own platform, not competitors platform... i heard rumors that microsoft want android but not the google android... like nokia did with their Nokia X phones
  • That is 100% false.
  • Right.  That's why Microsoft announced they were discontinuing Nokia X back in July, after their purchase of Nokia is complete.   In other words, the rumors you heard were wrong.
  • This! I agree wholeheartedly and I think they are genuinely pissing off both developers and users by looking after iOS and Android first
  • They recently announced that they will no longer be doing that, and will focus on the Windows platform as having the best experience.  It was stated at the press conference in Germany that launched the 830.
  • You're a rube.
  • The new Microsoft Office Sway will have an iPhone app first with Android and Windows Phone to come in the following months. Mobile first. Cloud first. Windows Phone, whenever we get to it...maybe.
  • *Windows Phone SOON...
  • Lol, pretty much.
  • you do realise, right, that when windows 10 comes out we'll get app updates likely before the competition?  Because simply put any time they update the desktop software they'll be able to easily update the phone version.
  • I do not count on that.
  • If it will have desktop software. In reverse of the mobile space, many consumer services are moving more to the web instead of apps. E-mail, Bing search, map, Facebook (the website is better than the apps) Oh, and if Office will take 700+ MB on both desktop and mobile, I'm not so sure I want to install it in my phone.
  • Desktop metro app situation is much-much worse then on WP. WP Music get 10 updates this year and W8 Music looks just like when it was released in 2012.
  • You really don't understand Microsoft do you? Do you ever read any articles or do you just guess at what is happening and form your own opinion from that?
  • Yep totally agree...
  • If you like MS' apps the best solution is to move to iOS or Android. They get much better support than on WP.
  • No, no really they don't.
  • You've got to be kidding.
  • This is nothing but a market strategy. All they want is to get the attention of iOS and Android users to Windows phone.
  • It's because MS is primarily focused on software as a service (Office 365, OneDrive, Skype - though they don't seem to give 2 shits about this)... The best way to make money off of software as a service is to provide it to the largest market of people possible: iOS and Android users.   Getting people to switch to WP is just a possible byproduct of this strategy.
  • Yeah they're really gonna get iOS users attention to WP by making iOS apps better than WP, that's just ridiculous. MS doesn't seem to know what they want!
  • How are they going to lure anyone off a platform that has apps by MS that their very own mobile OS doesnt have? Sheesh. Just type and press enter is how it goes i guess.  
  • LOL you're funny cause the only good Microsoft app that works good on Android is Xbox glass. Office is online and doesn't make sense to download on Android or IOS, other than that you're lying about all the Microsoft apps on them. I got over almost 50 apps on my WP, over 30 of them are Microsoft including games. I dare you to find 30 Microsoft apps on Android or IOS!
  • Baloney.
  • What? I've tried Skype on Android, the WP's app is far better!!
  • I've tried skype on android. Could barely underst***nd what other part is saying. Crazy latency. Almost given up on skype until I tried it on WP again.  
  • I would never stick with someone who stabs me in the back. You're odd for doing so.
  • You mean you want to be stabbed FRONT and back?
  • The worst thing is that Skype somehow manages to be better on other platforms. What really annoys me is that they make it obscenely difficult install actual desktop skype on actual desktop win 8.1. The 'modern' experience is lacking, certainly a regression.
  • They have given updates to all lumias which android wouldn't have been able to give to their devices. Think about it.
  • Yahhh they gave cyan update to almost 2 year old lumias. I don't think android gives update to a year old also.
  • This. My two year old 920 runs the latest and greatest and on android unless you have a Nexus device, you're not running the latest Android.
  • My Samsung Galaxy S3 is running the latest version of Kit Kat, so you can't say Android doesn't support updating their older phones.
  • Ahem, Lumia 810.
  • Blame Tmobile for not giving us any udpates.
  • That phone was custom made for T-mobile's network and then T-mobile dropped support for it.  Blame T-mobile, not MS.  MS can't just go around updating carrier locked (i.e. carrier owned) phones without the carrier's permission.  Unfortunately, this is what happens to us in the USA because most people's phones are actually owned by their carrier by contract. 
  • USA: "Live free or die!"
  • That was Tmobile, not Nokia if my memory serves me.
  • That was a carrier's choice, but in the same time frame, the Lumia 920 got the update. ;)
  • The 8.1 and Cyan update is available for the 810. It is available for all WP8 devices (Cyan is firmware specifically for Nokia devices). It is the carriers (Tmobile in this case) that ultimately decide whether or not to release it on your specific device (and then the OEM has to release the firmware). You can always risk going the developer's route. It has its risks but you don't have to worry about the carrier deciding what you can and can't get.
  • You're forgetting the Verizon Icon and 928.
  • You're forgetting that the updates are ready and being held back by Verizon, not Microsoft 
  • At the end, do you have updates ready to be installed or not? Blame this blame that, oh there moves one more person to iOS...
  • Android is waiting for you my friend.
  • Bye
  • Bye anyway ;-)
  • I don't have feelings online ;)
    If switching to Android looks good, go do it... Why post it here? Not sure about others here but I prefer constructive criticism. I would have rather read about why you think it looks good, or hear why after the barrage of updates we are getting on WP, that you think it is going nowhere...
  • it's pretty obvious you're trolling.  You complain.  Someone says bye.  You make a snarky remark.  Seriously, why are you staying if the platform annoys you so much?  I can scroll around the comments here and you're at numerous places complaining about the phones.  Do you have ANYTHING positive to say or are you just a negative person overlal?
  • You seem to have missed the word "constructive" in my comment?
  • Well said! ;)
  • You didn't hurt my feeling. You see I would have to care about what you think for you to hurt mu feeling. As I don't give a damn what any troll android fan boy thinks my feeling is fine. You wanna know the truth of the matter. Is like you most of the us population is ignorant to the fact that android is not only the most insecure Os out there. But also the most buggy and laggy of all the big three.thats the problem with America we are willing to settle for inferior products then to give quality products a chance. Look at all the junk car Americans buy now days made of plastic and glue. Not like the cars from the old days that were made from steel. So yeah America settles for cheaper products for higher prices. So like car people pay good money for android phone that are inferior to there WP counterparts in eveyway. But people will just keep settleing for the inferior os just because there friends got one and they don't wanna be different not because its a better OS.and there's the problem WP as far as a OS standpoint is far superior then android but since everyone like to settle for the inferior products and in turn so does everybody else so they don't look different so they stick with android and that's why android has more market share and that's what's pulls in the developers.its not that android is better os then WP its not it called ignorance.I mean look WP was made from the ground up but a company that's been in business twice as long as google has been.all google did was take Linux add the android skin and market it as there own. When the fact of the matter is Linux was created by thousand of developers over a long period of time then google sweeps in changes it a tad a pawns it off to the American public who just once again settle
  • If you Android make sure you use Cyanogenmod
  • Agreed. Then your phone can randomly freeze, reboot itself and get sporadic battery drain giving you that authentic Android experience.
  • ahaa...
  • update for OPO released today to fix all those issues and more.
  • My friend just got an htc M8 android, moved from iphone. It keeps bringing the calculator to the main screen, half baked stuff. I had a look, my other friend who uses android had a look as well. No idea what goes on. Will something so basic go wrong on Windows phone? NO.  And should we talk about freezing, chopiness even in the latest models with 4 cores? ok i may not have all the apps, but who cares, i consistently use 5-6 apps and that's all. Go to Android!
  • It's not WP10. It's Windows10. It's ACTUAL Windows 10. There'll be no more WP, just W. That's the idea. Have one universal platform from phone to 80" screen. Be able to support consumers up to enterprise. That, my friend, is something android does not and probably will not do.
  • Me too. +1520
  • What would be current for you? Do you go back to wp8 launch phones like the 920 or we thinking newer like a 930? In my case, i'm probably ok with my 920 being obsolete by mid-next year so long as app compatibility doesn't become an issue (aka, what I've paid for still works in 10). I'm technically due for an upgrade come late winter, I can wait a few months longer to get a new phone. If i had a 930, I'd be in a different boat and would be considerably upset. 
  • That's precisely what this article was about: There's no reason for them not to. Windows Phone 7 COULDN'T be updated to WP8 without technical knowhow the layman doesn't have. Giving everyone WP7.8 was much safer than risking a bunch of people who don't know how to flash roms accidentally bricking their devices. Not to mention that the older chipsets in WP7 handsets PROBABLY wouldn't have been able to handle WP8 very well (it was only after a few updates that we saw support for 512MB handsets and lower end chipsets, after all). This time around, we're all on the NT kernal and we've got the efficiency afforded by the patches since WP8 first came out. We've got nothing to worry about :)
     
  • Did these people even read the article? lol
  • Lol i don't think so
  • Plenty of people doesn't read the article they just glance, presume and whine.
  • Xbox music isn't loading fast enough for me.
  • i see what you did there... 
  • You brain is not thinking fast enough.
  • This is not true... the thing missing were drivers, nobody wanted to develop drivers for the chipsets in market at the time, given their limited budget for wp7, most manufacturers wanted to focus on android and the little they had left on wp8. wp8 would have run faster on the phones then wp7 because of the NT architecture... see video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjrIKVNScDQ Kind regards sir :)
  • Read the article again dude, if you have windows 8 you are good to continue sailing....
  • Tho guys an annoying hater. Go back to your LGs and Samsungs home boy.
  • Which android phone do you have?  
  • Ever consider that a golden shower might help wash the douche out of you?
  • Haters going to hate but let me ask you something. Why are you here on wpcentral and not on her sister android site if you love android go bye dont let the door hit you were the good lord split you but don't come on here hate are you that insecure about your OS of choice that you have to bash others
  • Seriously, you have to wonder whether people read before they comment.
  • This isn't confirmed anywhere. Everything says you SHOULD be able to upgrade your WP8 to 10. I'm not trusting Microsoft here. I'll be happy to be wrong, but have a feeling VERY few will be upgradeable, if any.
  • I have a feeling you are rarely happy, half glass empty man.
  • I'm unhappy because my glass is empty.
    As a Developer I'm happy with the new upcoming Visual Studio
    as well as the possibilities of the WIndows 10 for Modern/Phones
    e.g. the Universal Apps
    I hope the UI development could be more automated between screen sizes
    Just make it happen Microsoft and my glass is full!
  • I could have sworn part of the Windows 10 announcement was that Windows 10 would be backward compatible on Windows 8 phones. Then I found this on an article elsewhere. "It was confirmed by Microsoft during the Q&A at the announcement that Windows Phone 8.1, Windows 8.1, and Windows RT 8.1 will all have an upgrade path to Windows 10, be it ARM or x86 depending on the current architecture of the device. Also, Windows 8.1, Windows RT 8.1, and Windows Phone 8.1 all share the same core APIs and Kernel. Windows RT 8(.1) and Windows 8(.1) are the same Operating System. One is just compiled for x86 and the other for ARM."  
  • I have a 6 year old Macbook that can run Windows 8.1 but hasn't been able to run the last three OSX iterations. If I trust anyone for legacy support, its MS
  • Totally agree!koodos
  • Can you tell us which other platform updates its 2 year old devices?
  • So instead you'll go with iOS on a phone and tablet, MacOS on the Mac, Sony playstation 4? Or maybe iOS, Windows 10, Xbox One? Android, Windows 10, Xbox One? There's a ton of combinations, but other than the full windows experience across all platforms, you'll be forced to buy multpile versions of Apps, and have to deal with different UIs across the multiple platforms. And who says you necessarily need to buy a new phone? Windows 8.1 is excellent and provides the same UI on the phone,or close enough, to Windows 10 that there is no reason to upgrade until you need/want a new phone.
  • I don't think so. The first platform you got your device bent for a waste of money. The second one, you got a lot of malware and fragmentation, even though I'd buy a Moto X or HTC.
  • Exactly! if I as windowsphone 8 user can't update my phone to windows 10, I'm giving up on windowsphone and Microsoft. ps Farwell Nokia!
  • Seriously. My L1020 is pretty much as slow as the original Google Nexus phone after updating to Cyan
  • 1020 is just kind of slow in general with that processor. I have a 630 that runs app just as quick.
  • Developer Preview & never did a Hard Reset - right?
    I wonder if your battery last s less, too?
  • A hard reset shouldn't be necessary on a modern smartphone. The fact it is shows how poorly WP8.1 is coded.
  • It can be on a Developer Preview.  It was allowed, but not intended for general consumption.  When you deal with previews you know that it most likely has bugs and may need to do a full reset on your device to get it back to a "production"/ normal state in order to go forward.  If it was an issue with the final released and pushed version, with the device having always been on released versions, then it would be a different issue.
  • You are a liar
  • Try reading the article, then comment
  • I don't blame you at all. Me too.
  • L820 needs the update too. It's the same hardware as the L920
  • Wow....read the article and really got scared anyway. What if it is true and this article is false? I mean those of us from WM6.5 day up to WP8 know Microsoft's trend and what if this is another deja vu....a third one ofcourse?? Cuz we read simiar articles during WM6.5 and WP7 days and truely we got stabbed in the back although they keep on saying their decisions is right for the platform. Gosh.....my love for Windows Phone is fading. And what of Xbox One? Are there gonna be a Windows 10 version of Xbox Ones making our current consoles obsolete?....Jesus Christ....Microsoft can do anything and is bound to repeat history for countless times. Think I must jump ship :-(
  • I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not...
  • At one point, I read that wp8 didn't have exactly the same kernel at windows 8, but a variation from it.  If they want to use the same OS, they would have to use the same kernel, of course. But lets say we can upgrade to windows 10, great, but what then?  Windows has changed kernels as needed without issue, you can install any windows version on any machine without a problem, but if this is not the same for phones then we have a problem. Lets hope windows 10 is a success, and the phone market share goes up to 10%, we are getting closer to windows 11 and Microsoft decides to change to kernel to allow for new futuristic features or whatever.  At that point, unless there is a way to upgrade the kernel on windows phones, Microsoft would be rebooting yet again, and again... For those short sighted, I'm not saying, will my L920 be upgradable forever, I'm saying will my Microsoft X phone that came out 2.5 years into Windows 10, but 3 months before Windows 11 is realeased with a new kernel, will that be upgradable? And being realistic, no matter how good the current kernel is, there is alwasy room for improvement, and undiscovered technology
  • Yeah they better do.
  • Completely agree I'm considering leaving any way but that will push me over the edge Posted via the Windows Phone Central App for Android
  • Seems like you already did leave since you are using the WPC android app, ;)
  • Bye Felicia!
  • If you're threatening to leave THEN LEAVE. Stop commenting "threatening" Microsoft to step away from their platform. No. One. Cares. If. You. Go. Your negativity can be had elsewhere.
  • Thank you.
  • Your name describes you well bro...smfh
  • Just zibit, Ken!
  • For me, just make WP8 apps available to W10 app store, then I'll be convinced that they're not starting over.
  • Yea totaly agree.
    I gave MS a chance after letting me behind with my HTC radar (WP 7.x) and bought a lumia 920 (WP8)
    I have the phone almost 1 year and if MS will leave us (WP 8 users) behind again by not upgrading our devices to W10 then i will be forced to switch back to iOS
  • MS have already stated that newer 8.1 phone will be upgraded to Win10...why wouldnt it? Its the same Kernel. NOT every phone will be upgradeable though and your 920 is almost 3 years old (I also have a Lumia 920 btw) so dont be too shocked or pissed that your 920 is at its EOL. Try and upgrade a 3 year old android phone and see well that goes for you.
  • Some of you are a total disgrace here and to Microsoft. If you don't like MS, get the hell out. This article is meant to educate you but still you don't get it. I truly wonder. You can head to cockroach(android) or Suarez(apple) but for me I'm sticking with MS for life, I know its better than getting infested.
  • Hey man... I agree with you. I love Microsoft too. And it really doesn't matter if my phone updates to 10 or not. I am really happy about what m.s. Is trying here... Love the concept. And you know, most of the people here comment without even reading the post. They just read the previous comments and comment. Lol. Stupid people.
    Anyways... Guys like herbertsnow, please leave windows and Microsoft if you dint like it. Coz there are millions who are accepting what Ms. Is doing here. If you wanna cry like babies then please go back to android or ios.
    I wonder if you are such an intellectual person, then why did you end up buying windows phone.
    Lol.
    You suck. And yes... What exactly do you mean by you will feel betrayed? Why I mean... If windows 10 comes, will your phone be unable to call? Or will it be unable to run the millions of apps on the store currently available? Huh?
    Dude... You own a phone. Its a machine. Not a magical box. It has limitations. Its like I would say if i buy a phone, it should be upgradable for the lifetime. Lol... That's what you think.
    You are just being selfish. You just want yourself to be upgraded. You don't see that you are holding the development of technology by criticizing windows 10. So again...
    YOU SUCK. Go back to your android or ios.
  • That was hilarious but I enjoyed it. Lol
  • There's literally 0 reason why they wouldn't.
  • Yeah, I love windows phone, but if they don't upgrade current phones, I'm hopping onto the Android train. After all, Android has most of the Microsoft apps anyway--most more up to date than their WP counterparts. 
  • I can't so nothing but laugh at people saying they are leaving to android I'd their 2 years old phone is not updated... Do you people realize that android is even worse in that department ? If I get a w10 on my Lumia 920 I sure hope it will run smoothly like now, if not, it will be time for a new phone anyway, so Microsoft please give me a flagship in spring 2015 ;)
  • This article goes out of its way to explain "WHY" the reboots happened as if that justifies the wasted hours of development for Windows Mobile before and Windows Phone 7, or the wasted money and painful contracts consumers endured 
      The fact is the constant reboots "undeniably" contributed to developers/users leaving the ecosystem all together.    Nokia have always been excellent at enabling everyday users to "Flash" their phones, we already flash our phones using Nokia software updater and even downgrade our OS with it too without a hitch, but suddenly Microsoft wanted people not to endure a complicated procedure but instead endure the feeling of betrayal the Lumia 900 gave them. 
      
     
    Every decision Microsoft made with Windows Phone seemed to be "Money grabbing", the fact that they wanted devs to pay for the privilege to develop apps for them with a yearly fee too was also down right crazy in the first place and alienated so many indie devs that created miracles on other platforms. 
      Reboots increase investment for companies who want a little app that does a little thing ( Multiplexer companies for example) 
      When a company develops an app for Android they almost always use Android 2.X or higher at the very worst to describe its compatibility that's around 2009-2010, meaning the initial investment in the app had it being programmed for Android Éclair would have lasted 4 damn years. 
      EVEN AT WORST CASE SCENARIO where an app needed modern APIs they state Android 4.0 a two years old OS 
      Whilst an app created for Windows Phone 7 would not work on 8 without heavy modifications, meaning it took less that 2 years for an app to be out of date and useless with a customer base that was left in the dark. 
      Not to mention that with every update to WP8  developers also needed adjustments here and there to keep up. 
      Not all developers are "DEVELOPERS" who'd you expect to keep up with your updates and reboots and listen to user feedback., Most apps people miss on Windows Phone are small apps made by small companies who don't want to pay lots of money on development but want to give extra value to their products (I'll use the multiplexer argument once again also Philips Hue is another good example). 
      Apps are NOT backward compatible, sure there are few that ARE, but any MODERN app will never run on Windows Phone 7 mainly due to the god awful limited APIs on that thing. 
       
    It is in NO WAY the fault of the CUSTOMER that Microsoft NEEDED to reboot, this is why its hard to be a fan of Microsoft any cool thing they have gets shackled by the most greedy executive decisions bullshit that are so transparent it basically begs fans to hate them.  
       
  • In some respects, yes, I agree that there were "money grabs" going on.  But in the larger picture, I think that the real issue was this (fake) Microsoft org chart http://usingapple.com/2011/06/funny-organizational-chart-for-apple-facebook-google-amazon-microsoft-oracle/ Here's another blog post post that I think offers a valuable insight: http://www.riagenic.com/archives/960
    One quote:
    ...but the more I think about Windows and it’s Phone counterpart the more I start to think what has really happened is a clean reboot to WPF/Silverlight has occurred for the greater good.
    The downside is that we’ve all been preoccupied with the new UI of Windows 8 and lastly the community wanted to know what the future of the brand Silverlight/WPF was per say (this is awkward). Instead of getting actual answers they were given deafening silence and finally, to this day the overall developer relations overall from Microsoft has been both lazy and poorly executed.
    What we are seeing is Microsoft power brokers asleep at the helm, specifically their evangelism is dead and lastly their messaging around the transition for Silverlight/WPF has been fumbled to the point where it’s easier now to believe Microsoft has hit “Shift+Delete” on these two products rather than to read the above (too much carnage on the roadmap now).
    If Microsoft had of come out and said something to the effect – “Look you asked us to fix WPF and Silverlight. We did that, we came up with a way now that lets you develop for our platform in three ways. The first is C++ if you want deeper access to Windows then we’ve tided up our Com++ API’s to a way that C# developers have found palatable. If you don’t want to do native code then you can build applications like you have done with Silverlight in the past, but the difference is it will now  Windows only (sorry). If you then want to build apps that are cross-platform then again we’ve got HTML5 and Internet Explorer story brewing, whilst it’s important to understand that we will not be looking to expand our developer story beyond Windows anymore (there is a certain amount of control HTML5 will give but we still believe Internet Explorer is a better bet overall).
    Then they show a few slides on how you can write-once deploy to both Desktop, Tablet and Mobile via the XAML/HTML5 and C++/C# story then it becomes a bit of a consolidation discussion vs. a “they’ve killed my favourite toy” discussion we see today.
    They didn’t do that. That would require actually someone in the company with a backbone or marketing muscle that goes beyond ass kissing to Sinofsky. The problem we have right now ladies in and gents is we are all suffering from Microsoft’s internal bickering and as a result companies are looking to seek alternative to Microsoft for fear that this petty squabbling will continue to spread from not  only the mobility market share losses but to potentially the operating system as well."
    It's unbelievable to me how badly mismanaged the transition was to WinRT.  A lot of the wpcentral community is focused on the issue of the WP7 to WP8 kernel change since that killed their ability to upgrade, but the far more important change was the API transition from Silverlight to WinRT.  (It's entirely possible to keep APIs mostly  in sync across two kernels.  Remember Windows 95/98/Me vs NT 3.1/3.5/4.0/2000.  Not saying it's ideal, but it's possible.)  That said, the the Digital Trends article referred to in the wpcentral post is at this point, imho, hilariously obsolete.  These concerns were certainly present in the whole WP7/WP8/Win7 timeframe (e.g. the past two years or so), but since Windows 8.1/WP8.1 came out, it seems that MS finally has it's plans together.  
  • ridiculous that this had downvotes.... completely agree.
  • Anything with 512mb of ram should work
  • Bye!... Lol.
  • Really? This is how I see things: The phone ready version of Windows 10 will not even be out until late 2015 / early 2016. Are you telling me that you will still be rocking whatever phone you currently have right now for that long? I would bet that if your current phone is new enough to warrant keeping it until then, it would be included in the Windows 10 upgrade anyway. Only the older models such as the L620 that I have could be left out. But I will in all likely hood upgrade my phone by then anyway even if Windows 10 is never released, because by then my phone will be about 3-4 years old. Maybe I'm way off, but I don't see the need to start making plans to leave the platform just yet.  
  • same here. i felt stupid having a wp7 then a week aftr wp8 was announced. i was new to the platform, so im not familiar to any wp news that time. if they do that same thing too soon, i might as well leave and go bck to apple. damn msft... wp has so much potential, and all you do is smudge it w/ shit. until now, wp isnt that as solid compared to android and iOS. disappointing. really. please dont do it too soon. i hope old wp8 would still be upgradable.
  • I guess you can't read, all NT kernel phones are upgradeable.  The issue is wether your carrier is will to update your phone or will MS provide a different route for updates.
  • As long as current phones get the updates/upgrades then its fine. I know a few people who will never come back to windows phone bcos their lumia 900/800 became outdated/obsolete in less than a year.
  • Personally, I'd stick wtih WP because the alternatives suck (iOS and Android), but I can't say I blame them. I'd be peeved too.
  • remember to try Jolla Phones with Sailfish OS (aka MeeGo OS)
  • After the hotfix it's almost secure.
  • Microsoft is already dogfooding Windows 10 on Lumia 630 and Lumia 930s. Not sure why upgrades could not happen. They are not changing the core of the OS this time, which is the reason for the 7 to 8 split.
  • Microsoft should look at apple... new iOS can be installed on 2-3 years old phones but Microsoft doesnt make new updates to their own products... x20, x25 and 1x20 are like 1-2 years old phones and i rly hope they still make it possible to put Win10 to those phones too... especially into those 82x, 92x and 1x20
  • "but Microsoft doesnt make new updates to their own products..."
    This is an unfair statement that ignores all the context I spelled out in this article.
  • It is only PARTIALLY unfair because of MS's lack of market share power to force carriers to push updates ...says the guy with the HD2, Radar, and now 925 that have failed to stay updated as MS provides these supposed"everyone gets the update" updates! Been only MS since smartphones started, but if we don't get this one, I'M OUT!
  • I never get an operator locked phone
    I buy them cash and have no problem upgrading.
    W10 will surely work - just wait.
    On Android I recommend Nexus devices
    The old iPhones are slow on new OS - better not upgrade 1-core=4 The article tries to correct the W7 -> W8 NO-GO fiasco,
    but people just keep on hating, complaining
    spreading false information to the point of law suit (*) the referenced article I hope this will stop during summer 2015 when the upgrades arrive.
     
  • I thought every one could get get updates through the developers preview program. That's what I've been doing and am happy with the pace of updates that they have been pushing through that program.
  • The 925 got updated.
  • sry i didnt mean x00 and x10 phones koz i understand wp7 and wp8 was different so i can understand this situation but i wouldnt understand at all if they not giving windows 10 to these x20, x25 and 1x20
  • The problem is perception, people hear Windows10 and immediately think: New OS, when in fact it is no different than jellyBean 4.x.x. being updated to KitKat 4.x.x., I think starting from now further updates should start with 10.1 10.2 and so on,
  • Daniel that is because they don't read...they must have taken the Eveyln Wood Speed Reading Course...lol  
  • But the Iphones are highend products, and the 520 is a low end. Feel the difference
  • Okay but still they release these products. Their goal is to get a great experience but on a budget. I'm pretty sure low end devices such as the 630 or 530 will still get the update because I believe they have not yet ditched this philosophy. However I do agree that it needs to be more consistent with users of both high and low-end. At times I smell a bit of favoritism towards the high end(which isn't a problem at all) but I feel if you are going to be like that then just pull the plug on low end devices all together. No sense in making a phone just to make one and then supporting very lighly.
  • If you call two year old technology high end its funny how apple can release a phone with two year old technology or older and everybody call it high end but if MS does it its called cheap yah your paying 800 dollars off contracts or you get it free if you sell your sole for two years and end up paying twice as much for a phone that more people buy cuz they think of it as a status symbol then cuz they know even what a high end phone is
  • it's not just that
    It's the stone-ages OS with no Live Tiles or Widgets
    Apple is left far-far behind
    like a broken LP-player when even CD is getting old...
  • Are you that stupid? WP8 Does run on 3yo phones!
  • Unless you are talking about the HD2, WP8 came out with the 920 &others in 2012. It's been 2years.
  • Yes, and they lagged more and more with subsequent updates. I don't think apple is a good example for successful OS updates on more than a year-old phones. Microsoft on the other hand had not yet been given the chance to prove themselves on the first major OS update that doesn't involve kernel and major UI changes and you're already giving them flak. How about we watch what happens first before concluding that "Microsoft doesn't make new updates to their own products."
  • Actually, Apple doesn't do that at all.  When Apple releases a new version of iOS it is usually cippled in some way when installed on previous generation hardware.  They give it the same version number, but half of the new functionality is usually missing/disabled if you don't buy the new hardware.  That situation is really no different than MS releasing WP 7.8 for older hardware and 8.0 for new hardware.  MS is just more honest with their version numbers.  However, many consumers are so clueless about technology that they think Apple is hooking them up with the latest and greatest OS (even though it's missing some of the new features) because the version number is the same as the latest version.
  • This is Internet - please, don't make sense
    - just give a vague argument with sentimental icing...ok?
  • My bad.  I meant to say "Whatever.  Apple is sux."
  • >new iOS can be installed on 2-3 years old phones And they don't respond well to it.  Owners do it and then complain about performance every update.
  • Apple doesn't allow carriers to install their bloatware on iPhones.  Thus, the quick updates.  Android handsets are also notorious for not getting updates due to OEM android skins and customization.  Really wished Microsoft would just do updates via the Store if that was possible.  Thought I read about that a while ago.
  • Did you read the article? Have your ever read an article on this topic?
  • Easy explanation why it might not happen. Carriers want to sell phones. Verizon and the Cyan holdout is a case in point. My problem is apps. I'll probably be running an iPhone in a couple months if MS can't get 3rd party development support fast tracked.
  • I think there should be a poll for apps people want, personally I am set on apps actually took many. Or they need an actual time used tracker for apps.
  • 1. DP program should help you bypass the carriers, it was pretty much introduced for that. Granted they really need to improve things in it, such as the bitlocker issue that held a number of users back that didn't have bitlocker. 2. If you have to design one app for all devices you'd think you'd get more developer buy-in. WP marketshare is tiny, so the developers are reluctant to spend resources on it; however if you take WP and Windows together that share is now much much bigger and therefore makes alot more sense for devs to develop for. 3. If you expect the app situation to be resolved in the next couple of months you are hoping for too much.  That likely won't happen until Windows 10 platform wide release.
  • >DP program should help you bypass the carriers, it was pretty much introduced for that. Kinda. The DP can get you OS updates but the phone firmware is still at the mercy of the carriers because that's where the interaction with their network takes place.
  • That's true, but we are currently talking about the OS and not the firmware, older phones are very unlikely to benefit from newer firmware releases. I currently am using NL920 and I expect very little of Denim to be relevant to my phone.
  • interaction with carrier network - on firmware??? Huh?!
  • I have no idea what you're saying or asking, sorry
  • You will probably need to wait until W10 comes out to see a big difference. Apps are coming, but we probably won't see exponential growth within the next 3 months. iOS or android is the way to go if you need apps NOW.
  • Windows 10 uses NT kernel just like WP devices... So I see no reason why they couldn't update the device.
  • Daniel.  I haven't heard a whole lot of what Microsoft plans to do with the 1020 going forward. About the only thing I have seen is it will get Denim but will have most new features removed in favor of the Icon,  930, and 1520. It seems even camera improvements will be minimal.  Have you heard anything more or from your perspective or does it seem like Microsoft is putting minimal effort into the 1020 to let it fade away? 
  • Man if the 920 is still supported I'm sure the 1020 will be...
  • It's not that I'm saying it won't be supported but the 1020 was never fully polished.  I still have problems with poor white balance and blurry shots.  The pictures are really hit and miss.  When they hit they are great but that is about 1/4 of the time.  There have been promises to fix it but it has barely changed. It would be great if they could have an option of choose shot speed priority or quality but from everything I have read is denim won't address camera speed on the 1020 but only the 1520 and newer.  I for one would be happy if they could have a fast shot option for where speed is more important.  At this point though I would just fist be happy with shot to shot consistency. 
  • I'm not saying you are at fault or that the 1020 has issues but my father reported similar inconsistencies with his 1020 shots... But I found the issues he had to usually be caused by a fingerprint on the lens or the fact that he didn't tap the object on the screen that he wants in focus before shooting... It would be nice if the camera app launched faster but that seems to be a limitation of processing power, as the 930 launches it much faster... I think you may have to just grab a 1030 when it's released for that resolve. ;)
  • Although I agree with you fully, but I wonder how Apple could produce such a darn fast camera. The iPhone 6 takes picture literally the millisecond you touch the screen. And they are using an "underpowered" processor. I guess the 41MP doesn't help though so it is an achievement itself to have 41MP on phones.
  • On if you replace the 2-core to 4-core yourself
    The same goes with your laptop/console/PC/car engine
    You can't do much to speed it up.
    The 1520/930 use Snapdragon 800 which is fast enough to do some backgroud processing while also keeping the UI updated for faster response.
    This time you really need Snapdragon 805 and hopefully 3GB RAM. About the Image Qualty issues:
    MS Mobile really ough to do one more upgrade to the old lady
     
  • I wouldn't call it removed features, rather they're just unsupported feature on the Lumia 1020 hardware. It was already a miracle that Nokia could make a 41mp camera work on a processor that doesn't support it, to ask for features such as 4K recording is too much.
  • 4K recording is only possible on those Qualcomm CPU's that support it.
    No OS change can change this fact.
    Buy a new phone every year is the trend... :-/
  • Daniel, how can they dogfood 930? It's a technical spec beast!
    My main concern is Lumia 620 owners. Belfiore, kept on saying for Windows 10: "IOT & devices from 4 inch screens, up to 80 inch". Lumia 620 has 3.8 inch screen. I know, it's just an 0.2 detail but it just doesn't sound good in my ear... Even though I could never understand why the 620 was made with this screen size in the 1st place. 625 should have been the 620 from the start. Less than 4" smartphones shouldn't exist imo.
  • Dogfooding mean they are using their own products internally..."testing them out". What you mean how can they dogfood the 930?
  • My bad. Where I'm from, "dogfooding" (or at least a rough translation of it) is perceived more as/common to mean "going to abandon"... Thank you for telling me this! :)
  • This worries me a little. Those phones are new, what about the *20 series, like the 1020, 920, 820 and the like :/ I would not move to another plataform, I just don't like thos other (and I have tried them), but it will be a little disappointing if the update does not come th the not-that-old phones.
  • If they do this in a L520 it's fine ;)
  • Apparently the marketing strategy to distance Windows 10 from Windows 8 is working it's magic even on WPCentral readers.  They are thinking "major OS revolution" rather than evolution.
  • Dogfooding?
  • Well, probably, but I'd bet that the majority of WP devices in the wild are the x20 devices: the 920, 820and 1020. Due to the switch to Win10 now (a lack of availability of other, newer hardware doesn't help), most of these folks are probably hanging onto those devices until next year to see how this all plays out. If those 920 owners don't see a modicum of W10 upgrades, those users are probably out the door.
  • I don't think the from 8.1 to 10 itself will be a problem. I my question is: Would the update be iterative enough to have it done ota?.
  • Upgrade from* can't edit
  • Congratulations Dan, for a well written and an eye opening article on Windows 10. I was listening to you yesterday on the TechInformist podcast and I was proud of you.
  • I'm one of them... i hate WP since then
  • I'd bet if you went into a Microsoft Store and explained the situation and your dedication to the platform, they might have thrown you a bone.   But rigid thinking frequently leads to rigid results. JW, Which platform did you wind up switching to?
  • I did. Even I had just used 800 for 3 months .. N win phone 8 launched. I felt bad for being left behind. But look now m playing with both 920 n 1520.
  • Unfortunately that is too true of the mindset of the average consumer. They simply don't understand technology and expect more than what is actually possible.
    My Android phone will never see the KitKat update but that doesn't mean I will never bother with an Android phone ever again. I might be pissed off about it but that is all. However, I'm in the minority of people who do understand how things work but as good as this article is at describing the state of play, the average user still doesn't get it.
  • I'm sure 900/800 users are holding a serious grudge against Microsoft
  • They should instead buy a new phone!
    :-D
  • You can't be. It isn't that their phone stopped working. In fact, 2 guys I know that got a L900 4 months before WP8 came, both got a new Lumia (L1520 and L930) You forgot people get a new phone every year/2 year anyway. So I'm sorry, even when you're sure, you're wrong ;)
  • Ha! I've read that Digital Trends article indeed, Cortana fetched this article for me in my interests :) Thanks for your insight Daniel! Good read!
  • If they F*** Again I'm out WP is the only phone and smartphone OS I ever owned and got used too.
  • They can't pull a move like that again as they know their customers will walk.
  • The majority is going to put down a phone with windows phone 8 and walk away because they hear windows 10 is a different OS? Most wont even know what that means. They could change the whole developer program to Java and most users wouldn't just leave. Most people stick with what they know or what their friends tell them. Microsoft can do what they want. They may lose some, but they wont lose all. Most people just don't know any better.
  • THe same applies to any OS...most users don't understand - or don't care
  • I'm scared, stranger! :(
    Really scared.
    What if they do that!?
    I wish I had never read this article.......
  • That's understandable but I truly hope windows phone 10 has true compatibility with Windows 10 and Xbox one. Please bridge Xbox music and Xbox video into one app on Xbox, phone, and PC
  • There is no Windows Phone 10, it's the same OS that will run on everything: Phones, tablets, desktops.
  • Not really.  it's based on the same OS, but all of the unneeded components and subsystems (a lot) will be removed for the phone version.
  • Yeah, but they are going to have to differentiate it someway.... Externally there most likely will be WP10...
    ..............
    Unless they use a new name... Naaaaa W10 is good.
  • Agreed. Call it Xbox Media and bring back the STILL missing features from WP 8 that, for whatever pitiful reasons, they still can't seem to get right and add back in the 8.1OS app version
  • Doesn't "same OS across all devices" kind of clear that up for you?
  • Although it is early for WinRT on phone, it is a great option to choose when you want to use shared code for 300+ million devices with minimal effort for differentiating devices. I think this will be much easier when we see Windows 10 APIs in action.
  • In an otherwise excellent article, a note on WinRT at the same level of detail would have been a nice touch.  Will my 2520 get a WinRT 10 upgrade?
  • Slightly different things...Bing it:
    "WinRT"
    then "Windows RT"
  • Nicely written
  • What phone do you have?
  • I don't think its a problem.. It's great to see new devices and fresh OS for Windows. Security is important right now.
  • Quite nice to see there is only one comment on this article right now. Meaning that people are reading the article thoroughly just like I did.Well done! You nailed it. All this hatred and biased opinions are actually coming from people/websites who have never bothered to know about the Windows world and this should change. It's brainwashing people and articles like this one are really nice to read and eye-opening for such people. Well done once again! :) EDIT: By the time I typed out this long comment, there are almost 10 comments
  • "The problem has never been the newer phones could not run older apps, which would be more devastating to the app catalog, users and developers." Umm, didn't that happen? There are a ton of WP7 Xbox games that I can't play on my WP8 device.
  • "Umm, didn't that happen? There are a ton of WP7 Xbox games that I can't play on my WP8 device."
    That is actually a different reason. Many Xbox games came back a few months ago to WP8. It had nothing to do with the OS itself but (1) screen resolution changes/scaling to higher resolution phones (2) developers not updating their apps
  • Wasn't that because of internal policies related to Xbox qualifications? I think they were trying to clear up any games with provocative subject matter.
  • Yep it happened, it was hardly a big problem though was it? At most, a slight inconvenience.
  • Like Sid Meyer's Pirates for instance. Oh, and definitely not forgetting the Music experience, which still isn't anywhere near where it was back on windows 7.
  • Exactly Simon.
  • Yep, still a lot of games are MIA
  • Simple logic, 730-830 is being launched in different markets, they will not ditch phones which are brand new
  • They ditched the L800 3 months after launch. Albeit for different reasons, they did it. Posted via the Windows Phone Central App for Android
  • The Digital Trends Article = Click bait for site traffic. Not worth the time, your better off learning to bake a cookie or something lol.
  • Thank you Daniel for this article.. I was so pissed off when I read the Digital Trends article yesterday. It had nothing but misinformation. Only saving grace was the number of comments against the misinformation in the article. I'm so glad you brought out your point of view in response. Thanks again, keep up the good work.
  • Sure thing. Figured many novices might assume that information was accurate, so it was time to set the record for posterity.
  • Feeling better now, i was pissed off reading that article, and makeuseof.com's. Thanks mate. I see future on this os.
  • Isn't spreading false information IN PURPOSE TO HARM
    a felony?
  • Daniel, did you tweet your article to the author of the Digital Trends one?
  • It's like reading a story about Microsoft on The Motley Fool. Just awful. 
  • Same with the Verge and Cnet. Most are all Apple loving writers on those tech sites.  It's entertaining reading the comments saying their articles are biased.  I enjoy PocketNow as there are some writers that understand and appreciate Windows. 
  • CNET is just iNET or WhatWeHateAboutWindowsPhoneNET... I hate that website.
  • i though 6.5 and olders are windows mobile, not windows phone
  • At the time, Microsoft went back and forth. I was even told for 6.5 they wanted to ditch "numbers" and just call it Windows Phone. Their mobile strategy was messy back then.
  • you mean the naming was messy??
  • Please consider 512 MB device's.......
  • I'm hoping they consider 512 MB devices too. but i guess i'll be ready to switch to a more powerful lumia if the need arises
  • isn't that an issue that exists since the beginning of computers...? most other platforms have the same issue (iphone is an exception and I'm pretty sure people know why)   EDIT: ooohhh, you mean to upgrade to Win10, my bad, please ignore
  • Well said Dan, media perception is probably a real issue for Microsoft at the moment rather then technical.
  • Agreed. Some people write off Windows Phone just because of bias tech journalist
  • I am sure windows 10 for only wp8.1 devices ,, nopsss ,, there are only 30 series ,,
  • This guy Daniel gets it.
  • Windows 9 will be released for actual WPs handsets. :P
  • Plot twist! lol
  • That what they said,until you realize that...THERE IS NO WINDOWS 9!!!
    You just got punked!!!fool!!
  • I mean if Windows 10 is on NT Kernel, then why can't the current crop of devices run Windows 10?
  • Exactly. Plus, Microsoft is already running Windows 10 on current hardware.
  • not all of them and the software is ...slightly unfinished...
  • I don't seem to recall any record of any body saying current device can't upgrade to it.... yet
  • Lumia 520 and 920 should get Windows 10 too! The 920 ist faster than an 530 or 630. If this happen, MS is an Angel! :)
  • Exactly!!
  • This
  • 520 is one of their best selling phones so hopefully it gets WP10.
  • I'm hoping too..
  • Waiting for the next OS iteration... This is the WP users mantra since, let me think, the begin... wait for it...ning!!
  • and then YOU change? For real?
  • Fingers crossed for my Lumia 920 :-)
  • Double finger cross for my 930
  • I'm holding off purchasing a phone until 10. Current lot seems more stop gap that anything.
  • I'm doing the same. As my upgrade date is Nov 11th, I feel nothing great and flagship style will be released till win10 is out. I hope its not to far into next year. I'm ok with spring time but....
  • Me and my brothers are doing the same
    I have a Lumia 925 but had WP since WP7
    He has a Lumia 635
    And my other brother has Lumia 520
  • Good read.
  • I'm pretty sure the newer models will get Windows 10, while older models (ex. Lumia 520) won't get it.
  • Preview of Developers loop hole?
  • Daniel The DP is the loophole as you well know, and I firmly believe that it will be used to keep all of the WP8's updated. Power users know full well that firmware, kernels, even different radios can be updated OTA and I am also sure that you know this as well. Most power users would rather have the needed files downloaded and push them to the phones via a pic though. The fly in the soup is the issues that comes with doing this for some people. The mechanism isn't perfect nor available everywhere. It's a bit of a sticky mess for them and will raise concerns about the carriers as well and their bloat they insist that gets loaded My questions are will Microsoft risk alienating more of it's users or pass for fear of upsetting the carriers for not only it's older devices but it's newer models? Are they willing to face all the issues that came with the Developer Preview on a much larger scale? If there isn't hardware restrictions on the device to keep all functions of the phones from working, then it should be available to all provided Microsoft makes the path available to be utilized either OTA or from their servers for downloading. Posted via Windows Phone Central App
  • It's their best-selling model, so it pretty much *has* to, along with the 920, otherwise, there'll be a lot of egg on their faces.
  • I think the main concern is if we get a repeat of the Windows 7 to 8 jump, with existing phones getting left behind in the move to Windows 10. I think that would gut the marketshare Microsoft has been slowly building. Imagine owning a 930, or something newer and being locked out of future updates by the middle of next year. If the transition goes smoothly, however I think this will be a great thing for the OS in general.
  • This and technical reasons (they are not shifting the kernel) make them cutting off current phones very unlikely.
  • Didn't they already do just that with one of the HTC Windows Phones? 
  • That was more on HTC's end, not Microsoft
  • Define 'current phones' though.   The 930? Sure. The 1520? Probably. The 1020? Remember it was released in 2013, so only just becoming a two year old device come this time next year. And then you have the majority of Windows Phone users on both the Lumias 520 and 920.    You have to appease them, otherwise, there goes the majority of the platform marketshare.
  • Good read, Dan
  • High end flagships will make some difference , Lumia 935 , 1030 ,1530 1525 just give anyone of it idc about the name just a real flagship !
  • I hope they upgrade my phone. Otherwise I'm leaving WP this time
  • What phone do you have?
  • Windows Phone
  • Back to Nokia 3310...?
  • As a developer, I believe the DT article isn't flawed nor do I believe it's a perception issue.
    MSFT have removed most of the DNA that made Windows Phone unique in order to have a more "Android-esque" experience at the expense of their users. MSFT need to make up their minds as to the direction they want Windows Phone to take. And stick with it. App experiences are far worse on WP than on iOS or Android. Instagram and Flipboard being prominent examples.
  • And can you explain what Instagram and Flipboard (companies with far more resources than our top developers) putting out poorly done apps have to do with MS?
  • I think similar. The jump from 8.0 to 8.1 is still impossible for me due to limitations of the background agent in 8.1 so my app will stick with 8.0 till MS gives us the chance to update to 8.1 but leave all mechanisms in the back the same. I dont want to code my app again like a new app. And i fear what will happen with the universal app on 10. What if in mid 2015. we devs still have not all options we have right now with 8.0?! I wont update my ap. Because an update would break its functions and this is a no go for me. My biggest concern is the background agent for 8.1 apps (later 10 apps). On 8.0 we had more CPU time and more freedom do execute our codes then on 8.1 projects.
  • The API will expand later
    The January edition is not the Final
    The BG processing...I really don't know...re-coding is a pain
    No Silver Clouds - all xapped, restricted appx  - a lot of re-thinking to make it Univ <sigh>
  • I know what you mean. Except if continuing the Silverlight 8.1 app from 8.0 you actually have more freedom in the background agent. I am able to use a Png converter in my 8.1 live tile... Not enough memory for that in 8.0 agent. But my suspicion is they will remove the Silverlight model in 10 and go with the Universal only (makes sense). My issues with that are: 1. I need to essentially rewrite my apps and also learn a new bunch of APIs for achieving the same or similar tasks, 2. You have no real freedom with live tiles... Live tiles are templates if you are not using Silverlight, and all the rich layout users got with them are now basically gone, allowing only restricted layouts of text and images. That is a step backwards. If there is no option to keep a rich layout in 10, and keep within the CPU limit of the background agent, I doubt I will bother. It has been hard enough getting the background agents working as it is, and I've spent a lot of time getting them stable. It is the worst, most fragile part of WP development.
  • Same with me. Spent a lot of time to learn how ti make middle, middle back, wide, wide back and lockscreen pictures for the live tiles and now in 8.1 (even silverlight) the memory is smaller that we have. And like you say they will remove silverlight and then we have like you said no custom live tiles.
  • I'm merely curious, but as a non-dev I can't help but wonder what kind of changes did they make to alienate devs. Can you elaborate a bit on that?
  • Silverlight, xap, etc more stricted API = missing Features on appx
    hard to explain when tired and wires crossed
    BUT the W10 will partly correct this 8->8.1 transitional pain
  • I'm not seeing your point.  Even if they have removed most of the unique DNA, does it make it more difficult, more confusing, or more redundant for you as a developer to write apps for WP? And the examples you gave aren't ones seemingly showing the weakness or problems of WP, but rather the lack of attention or desire to build apps propery.
  • People asked for Andoid-esque features and Microsoft delivered it. It is a tough thing for developers to recode, I agree. But devs make their apps for "those" people only so it depends on the devs solely that whether they're ready to work a little more again or leave. Just my two-cents.
  • *Android
  • On the other hand, Twitter is better on Windows Phone and there are apps that WP has that Android doesn't (example: Videobrary and Collecto). Posted via the Windows Phone Central App for Android
  • Great read.
  • Don't read attack pieces; I'll keep reading here. I'm committed to WP.
  • I appreciate this article for a number of reasons, but the main one is due to the lack of ignorance so many tech pundits include in their articles. Bias and preference aside this article is factual above all us. Thank you for being observant in an industry with Android and iOS blinders on.
  • Thank you finally someone gets it!!!!
  • +930
  • What's funny is that I get asked a lot for what phone I have every single day. Anyone seeing my Lumia 930 gets intrigued and asks about it.
    We need to spread the word about Windows phone. I'm stunned that people don't even know what Lumia is...but the most interesting part is that THEY LIKE IT.
  • Anyone else flash back to Therman Murmon, the child from Bad Santa, when the name Sherman is brought up?
  • Great article. I've been feeling down about Windows phone lately.... That was a good pick me up, thanks Daniel!
  • I simply wish MS confidence. It's the most amazing software company, and they have a huge experience, but sometimes it seems to me they don't have enough confidence. Thanks for the article!   P.S. Inb4 "When ween ten in India?!?!?11111"
  • Digital Trend kept removing my comment when I cited this article.
  • Joshua Sherman - learn what research is, jesus!  
  • Forget Jesus, only Therman Murmon can save Sherman
  • Windows is the future, tiles are the future (although they need to be improved). Microsoft has the greatest vision of all the platforms because they are the biggest OS company in the world, period. Microsoft for the win; haters gonna hate.
  • A brilliant brilliant response! These dumb heads need some kind of treatment for spewing out such nasty words without heavy full knowledge of it!
  • Sherman seems like he has no clue. If you want to write about something extensively, then research it extensively...
  • Microsoft always have a bunch of great ideas but never any direction. It's like they get into a car and drive with no destination, just hoping to pick up hitchhikers on the way.
  • Naysayers at it again. Its true Windows ecosystem does not get the same love from developers as compared to Droid or iOs but its past its nascent stage. Hoping, With windows 10, it will fly.
  • I really appreciate this article. As someone who was not only a fan of both Zune and Windows Mobile but who knew back in 2011 what MS was trying to accomplish, I'm super happy to see where WP is going. Even if my 920 doesn't get updated it has given me nearly two years worth of enjoyment and there is no other OS I love as much as WP. 2015 is going to be another great year. :-)
  • I want to change my 1520 but until now there is no new model to choose from.
  • Well honestly if you guys think when you purchase a new car. A year later a new model with a few new things and new technology and you cannot bi*** to the manufacture yo upgrade your car to the latest. So a car is worth more than a phone. If Microsoft is doing this kind of strategies is because probably they were testing to see if WP were good and now they are making one os for every thing. If we consider is a good thing but the problem comes when people wants a new os in a old device. Lets hope Microsoft doesn't continue doing this kind of strategies. I am willing to give wp another change and let hope for the next os after 10 it wont face the same issues as some of the readers suggest here. Microsoft third new os
  • That was a very good and informative article. Thnx :)
  • How I love it when you go into detail. This article is excellent read.
  • I have no problem with OS updates as long as the apps are completely compatible giving both developers and users an easy time.
  • Article from The Gadget Show which hints Windows 10 won't work on current ARM handsets: http://gadgetshow.channel5.com/news/what-windows-10-means-smartphones
  • Joe B. said himself that "most ARM devices" will be updated to Win10. Wtf hints are in that article?
  • And what is their source for this info? Especially since MS hasn't released an preview version for people on ARM devices?
  • AFAIK, they are already running Windows 10 on current phones.
  • This is good to know. I thought it might be interesting to repost that article - it's from a big TV show in the UK. Good to have it debunked
  • O_O Current phones? Can you name a few? Please?
  • 630, 930
  • This is pretty meaningless. They ran windows phone 7 on HTC HD2 before, but then...
  • There is no way they are ditching ARM. Their strategy is largely based around being able to run Windows on any device that runs Android. And Universal apps are agnostic to the processor type since they're not native. The guy who wrote that article doesn't know what he's talking about.
  •   http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/10/03/what-does-windows-10-mean-for-intel-and-smartphone.aspx Comment from linked article: "It was confirmed by Microsoft during the Q&A at the announcement that Windows Phone 8.1, Windows 8.1, and Windows RT 8.1 will all have an upgrade path to Windows 10, be it ARM or x86 depending on the current architecture of the device. Also, Windows 8.1, Windows RT 8.1, and Windows Phone 8.1 all share the same core APIs and Kernel. Windows RT 8(.1) and Windows 8(.1) are the same Operating System. One is just compiled for x86 and the other for ARM."
  • That is about switching to x86 & EXE for phones making them small PC devices.
  • I read the digital trends article too. I wonder if any of these "writers" have actually used a Windows phone since WP7...I have. I gave up my Droid for the HTC Trophy, which was a good seller for WP on Verizon! I've had two 822's and currently on a 928 and plan on staying with WP. Cheers to all!
  • Article too long a.d.d kicked in, what ever happened to windows 9... Wasnt that supposed to be a thing?
  • Great article, Daniel. I, for one, am excited about what lies ahead for Microsoft and Windows devices. If they can pull this off successfully, Microsoft will have a very attractive and competitive user experience/set of devices to offer consumers. Exciting times.
  • Love a good editorial. This is my favourite of all time, solely due to the use of the word 'goobledygook'
  • Wait guys...android took the same trend...from 1.0, 2.0 then 2.3 froyo...then 3.0 etc. On each tier, one wasn't able to upgrade the phone to the newer one! But....At least .....8.1 devices shld be able to upgrade to 10 ;-)
  • Great article, Daniel. Thank you. And thank you for using gobbledygook in it too. :-)
  • Windows phone is still lacking in the API department. It's pretty evident with all the gimped apps like instagram and whatnot, I doubt most of these developers released their apps in this condition intentionally (however I wont completely rule that theory out.)
  • Are you a WP developer sir..?
  • Whether I am or not doesn't change the basis of my statement, something needs to be done to not only make WP apps more effective and stable, but the OS itself as well.
  • In other words you are making assumptions about why companies are not putting forth effort in their apps. The question is and continues to be, why is it that one-man teams can put together a decent app and big companies with millions of dollars can't?
  • I'm asking because I want to understand what's your statement based on (the lack of API). If you are a developer (or at least familiar with WP development) - can you please tell what API are lacking..? If you are not - then it might be some subjective speculation, based on personal impressions. I'm not accusing, I want to understand.
  • My apologies, I don't really understand what the problem stems from, I'm not a developer. I'm just a little frustrated with the constant *resuming* screens and the degraded apps is all. I have high hopes that the next update will fix some of these problems though. And ladydias, I dont understand it either, that's why I say at the end of my comment that I wouldn't rule out the original developers purposely half-assing their apps.
  • sounds like a ½GB RAM device...
  • I have the Lumia 1020.
  • The only thing they need to do is get up front and tell people what's going to happen. If current phones will be upgradable, say it. If not, say it. All the speculation is for the birds. I've had several WP devices and plan on going back to WP once I tire of my Nexus. I know what to expect when I get a iPhone or an Android phone, as far as upgrades go. MS leaving people guessing on what phones will be upgradable is for the birds. 
  • Birds don't get the WIndows 10 - they still run on DNA
  • I hope Microsoft will optimize Windows 10 for bigger phones (phablets).
  • Btw, excellent article, Daniel! We need more great writers like yourself! Well done!
  • +1520
  • Why did Microsoft not switch to the NT kernel for Windows Phone 7 and instead wait two years? This is a legitimate question, even if I admit that this is a very biased article, the answer is quite too biased. WP8 arrived to the market Less than a year after WP7, if they didnt have wasted time with WP7 they would have been perfectly able to release W8 at least 6 months earlier... making the wait  less than 6 months.
  • Yes this is something I am also thinking they should not have done wp7 simply make wp8 better.
  • and maybe wake up earlier than three years after Apple, and two after Google
  • I don't think you understand how software development works....
  • You might want to re-read the article. WP7 was out for far longer than a year by the time 8 came along. In fact, didn't 8 come out at the end of 2012? Also, how do you know they were perfectly capable of releasing 8 six month earlier? Where you working for MS at the time?
  • yeah almost two years and an half like cool8man says... too bad no one noticed:) Do you think that developing WP7 has taken resources and time or not? Do you think that piss off all the idiots (me included) who wasted their money on a lumia 800 has been a good idea? Let's see... as of now the market share in the high end is not so good... 
  • WP8 came out 2.5 years after WP7 was unveiled. If they had waited until Fall 2012 to release an update to Windows Mobile things would have been far worse than they are right now. In the two years that WP7/7.5 Mango were on the market the Windows app store accumulated over 100,000 apps which made the transition to WP8 app store. It would have been a terrible mistake to wait for the Windows NT kernel to be ready for phones. 
  • I don't think so, I think that WP7 was a waste of time.... waste of time that could have been prevented and that (if prevented) would have led to WP8 release ahead of fall 2012, far ahead. They where 3 years behind Apple... rush out a "development" OS just to say "I have something" has been at least silly
  • The platform is the app store. Any delay to getting the app store out there for developers and consumers is bad (regardless if it is 1.5 years or 2 years). The app store made the transition from WP7 to WP8 and that is what mattered more than anything. The people who had WP7 devices either updated to WP7.8 or bought a new WP8 device and they got to keep their apps regardless of which way they went. This is absolutely no different than what Apple does with iOS devices. The Windows Phone store went from 100,000 to over 300,000 apps now. They would not be over 300,000 apps right now if they had waited for Windows Phone 8 to be ready.   It is not just about development time. Phone hardware (ARM) was not ready to handle the NT kernel in 2010. The timing would have been wrong to try to bring NT to phones back then. 2010 was already too late to get to market for Windows Phone 7, and you're suggesting they should have delayed it even further by at least a year. Ideally Windows Phone 7 should have been on the market by 2009 with free licensing to effectively compete against Android before it could take off.
  • How can you not see that there is NO strategy, they rushed out an old platform, then they rushed out the app store, then they changed everything with 8 and now again with 10. Of course I could keep my apps from WP7 to WP8, it's not a nice gesture it's the least they could do! I doubt that arm wasn't able to handle NT kernet in 2010, but sure it was in 2011... and when you are 3 years kate... 1 year make no difference. 300.000 apps.... oooohhhh should I be impressed? how many in the App store, and in the Play store?
  • Windows 10 will be compatible with windows phone maybe not all but ones released in 2013 or 2014 will mostly be compatible. I am happy Microsoft has been pushing updates to everyone not like android where only few devices get update
  • Interesting read and insights from Daniel.
  • We can only hope for the best as we know Micorsoft is a lost soul
  • Well they're doing a lot better than Samsung, Nokia, and Sony. I'd rather be running Microsoft than any of those hardware companies. For a lost soul they sure do have a lot of successful and stable busineses.
  • Well say!!! Good article!!!
  • For me to leave wp it would mean that ms had fucked up the entire OS making it loose its simplicity... I dont believe thats whats gonna happen...
    I can not wait to have Windows 10 on all platforms... (PC, Tablet, Phone and my home server)
  • Typo mistake Windows mobile 6 was changed to Windows phone 7.
  • I switched to iphone 6+, been windows for the last four years.  Right now, dont think wp8.1 is ready although the OS i think itself is just as good as others, but the apps arent.    Hopefully wp10 is the answer, get not just the relevenant apps,but also the apps that are just good quality as other platforms.  The OS needs some tweaking to make it faster, fluid and less resuming/loading.  The camera is slow too.   If they can fix that, i think with universal apps, things can change for wp.  Untiil then, we'll see. 
  • The problem with Microsoft is that they misrepresent whatever they say is planned.
  • Why is it that Daniel Rubino, a person who tends to write very non-technical articles as far as tech-sites go, is one of the only ones who understands the technical reasoning behind MS' moves? Good work Dan! I wish more people actually knew what they were talking about before taking to their blogs. It's a rare things these days :-/
  • Thanks! And it's true, I'm not even a developer (wish I were, it would make things easier, lol)
  • +820
  • After all said and done, the current wp8/8.1 phones need to be upgradeable. If not
  • I really wish android will start over so that I wont need Ram cleaner and memory booster on a MOBILE PHONE but do Google have the gut? Hun? Ask your self.
  • And it has flaws... And I don't think they have any intention of correcting them...
  • What apps crybaby? Instagram (non beta), free games and apps or your personal bank app?
  • I am a WP fan but all the people I met recently with WP have come from Android and Apple. They either got bored of the dead Apple icons or found Android too complicated. Be interesting for you to show proof only die-hards use WP.
  • I came from android. Internal storage amount was poop, cyanogenmod isn't as great as it used to be, ram probs, and the only camera I consider "good" from an android phone is the Sony z3. I still use my nexus 7 (1st gen) tablet though 
  • I see more of Windows Phone moving to Windows rather than the other way, so as for restarting on WP... that's quite a joke!
  • Well, They have no excuses now. The problem with Windows Phone 7 was the "kernel". Now the kernel is the same for Windows 8 and Windows 10. So there are no excuses. THEY HAVE to upgrade the current phones. If they don't, I will swith to Android :)
  • I personally see devices right from 520 getting updated, be it partial or certain features not coming because that is where the major chunk of market share is coming from.
  • Yeah, because another .5 release would be wonderful.
  • Great work Daniel... Glad we have such a great writer among us...
  • Sometimes these people forget how big windows Is, at the end of the day iOS will only matter in the US. And Windows 10 ?
  • Android, iOS, then Windows 10 [for phones]. That order will not change, I don't care what MS does. 
  • I don't think that you've read the article here properly. Windows 10 is unified. So you cannot differentiate Windows 10 [for phones] from Windows 10 [for PCs & tabs]. Considering this fact, Michael99uk is right. Windows is huuuuuuge compared to iOS & Android.
  • I know what windows 10 is. And if you think they'll classify windows laptops, tablets, desktops as phone sales, I feel you are deeply confused.  Everyone knows windows is huge, and windows 10 on PCs will always crush rivials, on phones, it'll be in their place. 
  • Are you drunk? You can absolutely differentiate between phones, tablets and PCs.
     
  • You talking to me?
    I was commenting in reference to the OP. I wasn't talking about sales. I was talking of Windows 10 as a whole.
  • Haters gonna hate
  • Well put
  • "The only reason Windows Phone 7 devices could not be upgraded to Windows Phone 8 back in 2012 is that it is an entirely new OS that needed flashing to the phone (that kernel thing again). Although technically possible, the risks involved were greater than keeping the current OS and updating bits of it."
    This is just plain BS, Daniel. Every single Windows Phone 7 update required reflashing. It's the normal procedure for installing phone OS updates and is still how it works on Windows Phone 8 (and iOS / Android). Albeit that nowadays the updates can be more granular. The real reason was that Windows Phone 7 era hardware didn't have a Trusted Platform Module (TPM). The presence of a TPM is a requirement for Windows Phone 8 and is what makes the platform secure.
  • I'll concede the TPM part plays a role, but the way to distribute and update the 'update' was also problematic. Also, we do not 'reflash' our phones in the traditional bootloader sense, which also changed from wp7 to wp8. There are a lot of differences between the two but not insurmountable, just problematic.
  • Nice article, Daniel. I was hoping someone would write a rebuttal to that awful piece.
  • Excellent article Daniel Rubino! It takes courage to call out these so-called tech experts who are completely ignorant on the facts. They only serve to spread FUD - Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.

    Hope you send a copy of your article (and a selection of these comments) to the pseudo-tech-expert... and there boss!
  • Nice write-up Daniel, but I think the problem this time around is not of hardward compatibility (or rather incompatibility) like with WP7 to WP8, bt API incompatibility.   So for developers who have gotten used to and learnt and used the Windows Phone API's for app development, now will they have to make a switch to the RT based API's for Universal apps ?  THAT is the big question which might , if it happens, irk a lot of developers. Learning a whole platform and then using it to develop and deliver your apps is a time consuming work - and no developer likes to keep switching API's and have to re-work the old apps to reuse the new API's for better fiunctionality across the 3 screens paradigm again.  
  • All Anti-MS.
    Nothing else.
    Just give them an apple device and they'll love it.
    The 6 inch 1520 was a very device but the 5.5 inch iPhone 6 + is revolutionizing.
    The 4 mpx is very shitty on HTC one m8 which is from 2 years but the 4 year old 8 mpx is one hell of a camera.
    I mean, why bother with theses articles and especially with these ppl who even declare that MS skipped Windows 9 and announced iOS 10 then latter apologize.
    Let them enjoy their fanboynism. Everyone hates MS. Writes against them and tell them what to do like you seriously know how to code and write an OS.
    I remember that past week a guy just bended an iPhone 6 + on a live tv show and guess what? Apple sent them a letter telling them that you have embarrassed them and you'll not be invited to the further apple events.
    I have yet to see an article about the 2 billion loss of Apple 6 which nobody is doing it. Why? Simple apple will screw them.
    All hail Apple the God.
  • The guy's a dick.... Like so many of the self claimed "tech experts" at the present, they have no idea about Windows phone but continue to write articles about it! From what I read most of the time, I see blinding arrogance to the point they are content with their own bs.
  • Exactly!
  • This was such a refreshing read Daniel and good article to clear up that false perception of what Microsoft is doing. Yes the jump from WP7.5 to 8 was a little jarring and misunderstood at the time but we now see that it was worth it. The next thing Microsoft really needs to tackle(in the US at least) is making their mobile offerings available across multiple carriers. And before anyone starts with the whole "it's up to the carriers" argument the HTC One for Windows in a way puts that argument to rest. You can't tell me that ATT. Verizon, and T-Mobile(does Sprint even count anymore) CHOSE to carry the One for Windows but only ATT chose to carry the Lumia 1520 while only Verizon chose to carry the Lumia Icon. I don't even want to hear that in 2015. They need to quit bragging about their best phones (and they have good reason to brag; I owned the Lumia 1020) and products if in the end the consumers have to make decisions about the best way to actually get it when their carrier doesn't have it. And with T-Mobile's Jump plan it makes it so much easier to get new phones twice a year if the consumer chooses to do so without spending $600-700 out of the gate. That is one issue that I know is alienating more users than the reboot of WP8 and further.
  • Agreed. Good Job Daniel. Windows will be the underdog and will win back its loyal users with a unified platform. Please remember that Intel is now making phone chips vs (ARM). Windows 10 is positioned for that, too. 
  • Upgrade or be deleted
  • I believe Microsoft needs to work more on the marketing side. Many of Ms's products are great, yet people know too little about them or even worse, they have a bad perception of them due to flawed articles like the one Daniel is talking about here. When I was an android user a couple of years ago, I remember knowing almost nothing about WP. Then I decided to give it a try when Wp8 came out and I'm glad I did. Ok, it wasn't perfect and I can't say Ms has been blazing fast in introducing new features, but they worked a lot and with 8.1 now we have a great Os. But the average user tends to avoid WP cause all he heard of it is bad comments, maybe from friends that were unsatisfied with Wp7 or W8 for desktop, and most of all from employees in tech shops. I heard myself things like "WP? It has fewer apps than Android, for example I'm pretty sure it hasn't got Skype". I think Microsoft is going the right way with W10 and I hope it'll change people's perception the way win7 did after Vista or even more.
  • Glad I didn't read the quoted article as it seems biased. Daniel your response certainly shed light on the WP progression and clarified the reasons for the changes to date. Very interesting, thank you.
  • Welcome! Thanks for reading.
  • Great Article Daniel! Sadly, some bozos just misunderstand/misinterpret the vision and strategic plans of Microsoft.
  • Some of YOU PEOPLE... I just don't have the words.
  • Change is good, but it will be a rubbish move if Windows/Phone10 wont be available for existing Windows Phone 8 users!
  • So many people complain about Windows Phone.. I don't get it really.. I used wp7,wp8 and just updated to 8.1 it keeps getting better imo.. Not worse. I'm looking forward to Windows 10 as well as a new "hero" phone device that can also run Windows 10 as well. Windows phone has it's issues.. Mostly lack of developer support which would bring more apps onboard that are on other mobile OS's, but I can't say I've ever been totally unhappy with Windows Phone. It does its job and keeps getting better. iOS and Android were first to market and we've been playing catch up ever since. Having a unified front and less fragmentation across Windows is a good strategy and a very different direction for Microsoft. I think this is a smart move by them and in the end I think we will end up happier for it. Time will tell.
  • Listen, (speaking as a developer) as long as microsoft implements all the api's that are in SL 8.1 into Windows Runtime for win 10, then i dont have a problem. Its things like NOT supporting run under lock screen and UserSettings being completely wiped out which requires entire app re-writes or not even being able to support it at all which bothers developers. (yes im aware there is a hack to get around run under lock screen, it should be implemented identical to the phone api. Currently its obvious they were just trying to force a way to make universal apps work even if in a limited kind of way).
  • yeah, this pisses me off as a user - All the sleep (white noise) apps can't run while using the phone.
     
  • W10 API is expanding, but I'm afraid not enough :-/ 
    We'll see...
  • I think as long as the consumer doesnt need to change hardware to take advantage of most features then it is a good deal. The jump from wp7.5 to wp8 left a lot of hardware not compatible and a lot of software unsupported.
  • I don't think we have to worry about another WP7-WP8 issue with Windows 10. What we should worry about is how well the new OS will run on older WP8 phones especially those with dual core procs and 512 MB Ram.
  • Since the Lumoa 520/521 has such a big chunk of WPs market share, Microsoft has to make sure Windows 10 works great on that device. It is the same kernel as WP8 so even though we don't know what changes will be made to the UI and other phone features the performance shouldn't change that much 
  • This. The 520 (and the 920) are the best selling Windows Phone 8 devices, so they basically absolutely have to get updated to Windows 10.
  • Great article, Dan. I can't wait to see what 2015 brings!
  • I just bitched about this. STOP STARTING EVERYTHING OVER. Look at Windows Phone. Look at Zune to Xbox Music and Video. You think devs are sick of it? Get in line...im.about done with this circus. As I've stated a million times, they have until my next phone to get Xbox Video and Music back on par with Zune or I'm done.
    The thing that drives me nuts, is the starting over is never moving forward, it is giving us five features and removing seven. Go ahead and start over, but stopping making two steps forward, three back. I know they are mainly speaking OS in the article, but when it comes to Microsoft this has applied to every last thing they do.
  • May as well pack your bags now. Doubt they'll get it to Zune level. That boat sailed for me already. I'm on iTunes now. Still getting the just of it. But I think I'm almost there. I still LOVE XM as a service. Just hate all the apps sans the Xbox one.
  • How do your get your music, tv shows, and movie over to your phone using iTunes?
  • I have an iPod Touch. Bought for the purpose of better managing my music. As for TV Shows and Movies, uh..can you even do that, legally I mean, with any service? I use UtraViolet. Anyways, like you, I'd like for MS to make a semi-usable app to manage my music. Right now, I use three. I use Zune to download my 10 songs, iTunes to sync those songs to my iPod Touch, and XBOX Music app to add songs to my collection, although not downloaded, only in the cloud.
  • The problem with Microsoft is that for every article like the one Dan posted here, there are ten more all over the internet that says Microsoft sucks. That's got nothing to do with favoring Apple or Android, its about Microsoft doing a terrible job of representing itself to the public and it's loyal user base.
  • Nice read Dan.
  • I wonder if MS might have been better served to make the jump from 7 to 10 all at once rather than making several big jumps from 7 to 8 then 8.1 and than to 10. Should they have kept the 7 backend and worked with that until 10 was ready? Then when 10 came out make a huge ad campaign to push this new radical change. Now they have people who are confused by all these minor changes and gotten a bad rap because of it.
  • and only NOW you tell us all - including Microsoft! 
    It's all your fault!" You didn't warn Bill Gates early enough!!
  • Lets not blame media completely. Microsoft has also problem in communicating properly. It's shocking that WP apps are much capable than other OS, and I know many blame developer. Can anybody tell me why Skype on WP is not capable sending text while ios version is ? It's just shocking , and shame on MS. I like Nokia hence still with WP, but if Microsoft itself denies its own platform, then we stupid should do the same. No maps , no google voice substitute. Why they don't do something with Skype, it can easily be made capable like google voice and imessage, but shockingly they are not doing so. Only 15 percent ever used Siri, means Cortana is not deal breaker for apple fans. I used all three platform and still love WP, but we have to admit that maps, email experience, file explorer issue, lack of VoIP service like google voice service is huge deal.breaker for many, and few cares about digital assistant. And a fresh start with confusion will make.everything bad, if Lumia 1520 is not capable to update 10, i am out !
  • When I interviewed with Microsoft last year,  most of the people I met with had Windows Phones.
  • apple started on the right foot with their motto in mind. simplicity. but microsoft didn't but it is now getting there! hope windows 10 is a success!
  • Lol I read the article your referring to and even with my limited knowledge about the WP environment before 7x series I knew that the writer had a biased opinion! This clearly cane from someone that has never held a wp8/8.1 device or not long enough anyways
  • Wow there is a lot of fapping going on here. Nothing worse than the fan boy response... In all honesty, the article was over done, but it HAS been a poor experience as a WP user since 7. It's almost a requirement to follow a site like Wpcentral to keep your phone current/relevant. Think about all the people still using 8.0-scary. And hell, my phone doesn't even have cyan yet. That's all a bunch of bullsh1t that should be handled by MS in a much, much better way.
  • Excellent article Daniel, and I love the passion of your arguments against Sherman's ill informed "put-downs" of the OS as a whole, one of the only things that I've never understood though, is why the humongous Skype user base was never treat to a whatsapp-esque experience and that they have let other instant messengers take over where Skype could have prevailed effortlessly, other than this one facility, Windows is a brilliant place to be at the minute, not only are we being heard by the likes of Nadella and his team, but they are exposing where we will all be regarding updated and technology well into 2015, which is something I've never been informed of by any other company/OS. Put briefly, our mobile phones can do everything that android and IOS phones can do, but we know that they are on the precipice of doing so much more, and for this, I thank Microsoft (and of course Nokia :) for my experiences so far.
  • The only thing they have to make sure is that majority of WP8 devices would be upgraded to Windows 10, everything else the average user overlooks until it's either highly obvious or written about a lot
  • "Despite trademark claim, most people still refer to it as Metro"* fixed.
  • Excuses.
  • Brilliantly written article. I've tried explaining this to others before, but you have done so quite eloquently.
  • I really can't see ms not providing the update to wp8.1 and windows 8.1 especially after giving the os away I'm not sure if the update will be free or just very affordable.
    Were in a new era of ms and windows which is all about services and the current platform supports this beautifully. One Microsoft
  • Thank you Daniel. I saw that article and thought they were way off.
  • Message hub back. K thanks bye
  • This seems to be a well written article. Well done. To put things in perspective for some who don't get it, I had an iPhone 4S. Not more than 6 months after I got the phone... there was an update... iOS 7. After installing that, my phone ran like a turd through a tar pit. There was no going back... Just deal with it, or buy a new iPhone 5. My wife who hates iOS 7 and doesn't want a new phone is now stuck carefully picking app updates as some of them no longer support iOS 6. Does Apple get crap for this? No way, its time to upgrade. There are even now features in iOS 8 that require or will eventually require a new iPhone 6. Once again... Does Apple get crap for that? Or how about some Android phones can't run whatever the candy named OS is today? Microsoft's phone OS is growing to compete, so if you need a new phone to get that new feature.... Go do what the other iSheep and Doid-a-holics do and get a new phone... There's a new one out every 6 months to a year.... I don't regret the day my iPhones battery died on me again half way through the day... I just went and got a new Phone... My 1520, and will remain happy with my decision, at least till the 1525 comes out. Yes, other OS's have more apps and better email clients, etc. but I am looking forward to what Microsoft will do in the future. And if it doesn't pan out then I guess I will chose the right phone for me at that time. In other words... Haters just quit Hatin' and start reporting some unbiased tech news, or change your name to something else more befitting of your tech slant. Again, thanks fore the great article. It was a good lunchtime read.
  • I love Windows Phone. Period.
  • That's what she said! ;-)
  • First, you really shouldn't respond to an article written by someone clueless. I know plenty of developers that kept using the 7.5 app platform for a while (at least a year after 8.0 was released) and the changes with 8.0 for developers were small. It's still C# and XAML, there was no real issue for developers with the platform itself. (most mobile devs weren't building apps for Windows Mobile, it had no store and the platform was a mess).  We don't know what changes the Windows 10 will bring to developers. Universal apps are already available and it's still .Net and XAML just in the Windows 8 flavor. Windows 10 will probably stay with that and maybe include a better solution for dealing with different screen sizes (now that apps are resizable windows on the desktop)   Not letting users upgrade from 7.x to 8.0 was a perception problem more than anything else. Abandoning the 7.x users back then (I heard it had to do with the missing TPM chip) is the main reason WP users are questioning the upgrade to 10 now. iOS users know they'll get the update if their phone is three years old or newer. Android users know they probably won't get the new big update unless they're running a vanilla version. Windows Phone users look at Microsoft's track record and are justifiably worried. Microsoft could have solved it back then, especially for those who bought one of the just released phones (like the Lumia 900) with a trade-in program that made sense. When Apple lowered the original iPhone's price a few weeks after it's release it ended up giving everyone $100 Apple store credit to calm the upset people down, Microsoft just ignored the 7.x users' cries online
  • Old iPhones do *not* run the latest iOS well.
    The phones are just a few.
    If you want to go out of Live Tiles you can have Widgets
    iOS has nothing, but marketing is good...old fart sold as parfume!
  • People are never happy??? If you hate Microsoft then move on, that's why people have options. Besides, if 30 different car companies (exaggeration) can coexist, then why not 3 platforms!!! Go with what works for you!!! As for myself and my family, its Microsoft all the way!!! Go MS!!!
  • Eventhough i've left WP for Android recently, I do agree with Daniel here...well written article and nice clarifications in comparison to the DT article. MY CONCERN as a highly probable user hoping to return to WP in the future, is how much support MS will get with Windows 10 all together. I really hope this is MS's homerun and it takes off faster than WP8 did.
  • The one App that would've made me leave Windows Phone is now here.... Flipboard. I have all the Apps is regularly use on my Android GSIII, namely Facebook, Twitter, Vine, Chase Bank, Red box, Vevo, Hulu+, Netflix.
    I love the Windows Phone Live Tile system and don't see myself going back... I was never interested in the latest and greatest games since I have a Xbox One. So, it would be sad to see some of you jump ship but we want only true believers here. Peace.
  • Well said. Windows phone 7 to 8 was troubling. Even 8 to 8.1 is a problem since some apps require 8.1 and I'm still waiting for the update
  • Nicely written Daniel. I seem to have this love hate relationship with Windows phone. Used it for about 18 months. Switched to a nexus for 4, couldn't tolerate it for long, switched back to WP with a Lumia 925. Getting bored again so bought an iPhone 5s, should be coming in tomorrow. I think I'll now stick to this combination of the iPhone and 925 till the next Gen Lumia phones by Microsoft Mobile. Mid-2015 I am looking at you.
  • Perfectly articulated Daniel. My only quibble is that the phrase 'starting over' should have quotes around it in your headline. As it is, it sort of feeds onto the misinformation for those who don't take the time to read your piece.
  • Thanks and I agree and I'll change it now ;)
  • Microsoft is alienating its users, but not because of WP8 or Windows 10.  They are alienating me because they are doing such little marketing to drive market share to levels that would encourage app development.  When I go to Verizon and I have to buy a Windows Phone off of a kiosk that is advertising the Moto X, there is a problem.  When folks going into AT&T or Verizon looking to get a Windows Phone and the staff says, "Are you sure you want to do that?", there is a problem.  When I show the manager of a Chick-Fil-A my Windows Phone and she says, "What is a Windows Phone?  Is that a Samsung phone?" there is a problem.  When a Windows Phone comes out, but it is carrier-exclusive to AT&T or Verizon, there is a problem. Windows Phone does not have a technology problem or a developer tools problem.  It has a marketing problem.  It's about time Microsoft demonstrated that they are as committed to Windows Phone as I am (I have never owned a smartphone that was not a Windows Phone) by embarking on the types and levels of marketing required to drive the platform to 20% market share.  
  • Thanks Daniel for the fight back. I read that article through Cortana and was feeling bad for it. But now you have cleared my queries. Thnx.
  • I hope they ditch that phone variant thing. With little exception, the phones are identical. It would really streamline the update process and reduce the time needed for testing and delivering. I actually flashed my Taiwan CV Lumia 820, which I bought in Romania, to a UK CV, with no problems, to get firmware updates faster...
  • You want all the great features and OS... but you only want to pay 100 dollars for a low-end device.. please stop!! buy high-end phones and please understand that sometimes you need to upgrade to better hardware to get the new features... so if my 920 doest not work for windows 10.. I will buy the one that does...
  • Windows 10 will decide for me whether I stay or go to Android. I've gone from 920 to 930, and so far kind of impressed by the growth but still waiting for that explosion in OS features and quality. My fingers are crossed for Windows 10 being the gem they are promising it to be. Don't let me down MS, I've stuck it this far.
  • Relax guys windows 10 will only make things easier by opening up windows phone for more hardware support but not a shift in hardware. All windows phone 8.1 devices can run windows 10. MS wants to take advantage of the low smart phone market therefore the company will optimise windows 10 for effective low hardware support.
  • It's hard to have a solid opinion on this next transition without knowing any of the details or seeing the execution of it. Will the existing apps be compatible? If not then obviously this is a bad transition for users. Will most phones get the update? The plan is they will and hopefully they will execute on that plan with the lowest end Windows Phones. Will we lose any major functionality from this transition? When we made the transition to WP7 we lost basic essential features like copy and paste. I don't anticipate anything that major again, but you never know. In my experience major updates tend to be 2 steps forward, 1 step back. Meaning overall things may improve, but some of our favorite functions of OS may not survive the transition. At this point I have not heard anything bad regarding the next update on Windows Phone to "Windows 10" (other than the move to an incredibly stupid name.)
  • I have come to know Windows Phone only in 2012 during the launch of Windows Phone 8 and my very first Windows phone was the Nokia Lumia 920. Before that, I had already used iPhone though it was just a prize I won from a game. I also had Samsung smartphones, and Sony Xperia (Sola to be exact). So, pretty much I have used iOS and Android before I found Windows Phone. Since then, I only used my Nokia Lumia 920 and my new Nokia Lumia 930 and planned of using only phones with Windows OS. I am not particular to brand such as Nokia, but I know how Windows Phone works, how fast, smooth, and I can be sure that whenever a new version of OS or firmware will come, my phone will get updated without forcing me to buy a new one at least in a year or two.
  • Sooo, did anyone else notice in the picture that has all the devices together you can see that there is a small tablet that is suppose to have the "windows phone OS" on it? I just noticed that, and yes I know its just a render aka picture but that's interesting. The rumors must be true.
  • If there is one problem I see with Windows phone it's the lack of support for Google's services. I know a lot of you will say that why do you need google, switch to outlook and what not, in fact I did the same too, but not everybody is willing to do that. Done people are so deep invested into Google's services that its just not possible to step back. Heck, until recently all my passwords were stored by chrome too and considering that it is one of the few internet explorers available across platforms, it's really convenient.
    The point is, if somehow this support for Google's services can be brought about, it will do a lot for the platform. I realize the problem is at Google's end but it's hurting Microsoft more.
  • I completely agree the lack of Google services is hurting Microsoft.  I use alternatives like MetroMail, MetroTube, but there's not one for Google Voice unfortunately.  For me I like Here Maps better than Google Maps. 
  • Here's the three issues for Microsoft and Windows 10. 1. It better look and feel a lot like Windows Phone 8.1, because nobody wants something completely different that they have to relearn. Going with a completely different UI paradigm will also turn off the people who do love WP8. 2. Windows 10 better support all 300,000 plus WP8.1 apps natively. If it doesn't, they're effectively starting over, which is a death knell considering how far behind they are. 3. Windows Phone 8 devices better be upgradeable. If they abandon WP owners a second time, they are absolutely finished in smart phones.
  • Yep, agree on every point.
  • Agreed!
  • As long as the advertise it right, Windows 10 will rock our world!
  • Windows 8/8.1 established a successful app store on Windows. Something they failed to achieve with all previous versions of Windows. The reason why people forget about failures like the previous Windows stores, Media Center apps, Gadgets (vista), etc. is because it was so easy to turn them off and forget they ever existed. Windows 8 didn't let you turn it off and so it succeeded as an official app store. For all the talk by the tech bloggers of Windows 8 as a failure, about the mistake of forcing the new UI, it succeeded in the very most important aspect which was establishing the Windows store with modern mobile apps. Windows Store is not failing like the Mac OS store or Blackberry app store or like all previous app stores from Microsoft on Windows. After failing for generations they finally built an OS that is credible on touch screen devices and a a very competent official app store that is for once not being completely ignored by developers.
  • So i guess since developers were waiting to upgrade their apps till WP8.1 is on more devices, now they'll wait again and update when Windows10 comes (and spreads enough)?
  • I can't wait for Windows 10.  To me it sounds like even my Lumia 920 has a chance at getting the update.  This has to be one of the best articles I have read on WPC.  It is very linear (a must for this type of article), and each point is explained clearly.  I'm glad I jumped from my iPhone 4 to the 920, and I've swtched several other people. My biggest fear right now is that MS is holding off on releasing new flagship phones until Windows 10 is ready.  The 930/Icon is great in regards to its specs, but it doesn't have that premium look/feel a flagship device is expected to have.  Give me an updated version of the 925 with 32GB internal storage, built-in Qi charging, a micro-SD slot, and the 930 specs.  I will gladly upgrade to that device.
  • I'm even pretty sure that phones like the Lumia 520 will be able to upgrade. It's by far the most popular phone they have and leaving all those people in the cold would be a big mistake. You might not get all the features because of HW restrictions but they will be able to upgrade
  • I think Windows 10 will come with a new set of recommended specs for devices. Earlier WP8 devices will still function, such as 520 or 920, but a quad core processor should be the new normal.
  • Excellent article. Let me preface this by saying I'm no tech genius. I was a long time android fan/user(still am actually). I've just recently switched to WP in the last few months and am loving it. Yes I still use android but I do prefer the windows experience more. Now,I don't play any games on my phones mostly because I hate on screen buttons. So for me the "app gap" isn't as big of a problem. Yes,the devs on WP really need to do a better job of designing and updating their apps,but as far as consistency i see no issues with WP. I'm glad I made the move.
  • Agree completely Daniel and thanks for the trip down memory lane for this long-time Windows Mobile enthusiast. The easiest way to catch your competitor in a race where they are nearing the finish line and you just heard the gun is to change both the location of the finish line and the track required to get there... Effectively changing the "rules" of the game. I feel really good about this, should they pull it off effectively and efficiently... And they must beat people over the head on the marketing front. That message needs to scream "There's a wolf in the woods iSheep and an old lady handling out poison apples that blind your senses and logic! Come over to the shelter of the kinder, gentler, Microsoft ecosystem. We have cake and it's easy as pie to switch! One OS to rule them all!" ;-)
  • Well,let me just put it that way: I am just starting a software developing business and having the prospect of windows 10 as a unified OS is why my business will develop for Windows only (at least for the foreseeable future). I want my applications to be on every device. In fact, some of the applications I am planning only make sense when used on every device. Yes, I might not make as much money as on other platforms, but I will reach my customers on their phone, their tablet and their desktop without having to build and maintain 3 different application structures. For my business, windows is the future and I am confident I am making the right bet.
  • Daniel, this article is a masterpiece. Very thoughtful and will laid out explanation of the path to where we are. And I didn't even catch any grammatical errors! Thank you so much for the write up, this is worth saving in the permanent links file!
  • What do you guys think?: https://windowsphone.uservoice.com/forums/101801-feature-suggestions/suggestions/6534225-you-should-reward-users-of-wp7-because-they-could
  • Of course Windows 10 Apps will suffer from developers focusing on PC. I can't imagine any automatical system that creates phone apps from pc apps, which are well optimized foe small screens. It will be a sort of scaling, what is not what a mobile app should be like. They need totally different layouts. This will be another step decreasing windows phones app quality. See what what WP 8.1 did: action center integration is totally broken as long as the apps aren't updated (WhatsApp). Devs won't update so fast. In the time I'm having the lumia930 WhatsApp had gotten not a single update while the android version got 10 or 15. They are adopting it to android wear much faster than to on windows phone. Although the androidwear base is nowhere near to windows phone. But as long as Microsoft shits on market share and YOU shit on App quality cause you are in love with Microsoft, nothing will ever change.
  • The way I see the Digital Trends Sherman article is a pat on the back for Apple & iOS lack of progress. iOS stagnates and only makes superificial style changes over the past several years. The OS design itself feels archaic to anyone coming from Windows or Andriod. But from his perspective iOS is stable, it does not confuse users by doing such "terrible" things as updating the functionality of the OS. Maybe he is right that this is what most consumers and developers want, but I certainly do not want that. I want progress and advancements and the snails pace that Apple iOS is moving at makes it a joke to anyone accustomed to things like live tiles/folder and a voice control API that extends out to all 3rd party applications. When I pick up an iPhone and navigate the Springboard I think "wow this feels so old and outdated, how can anyone still settle for this?"
  • Its funny you say that... as I just see a symbian phone when I look at IOS. Note: Symbian in its day(tech available) had a very good reason to be a grid if icons.
  • Do wp8.1 apps require a rewrite from wp8? I don't understand why Rudy had not released an 8.1 version of 6tag yet with video selection...
  • Require it? No. But there are benefits to doing so, including making it universal. It is what we are doing for our WPCentral app right now.
  • I love this kind of editorial articles. I really think this is the way to do things, Windows 10 is really promising and it could change the way things are done in every device (tablet, phone, smartwatch?) and every platform, opposing to Apple's and Google's philosophy to have a computer OS (Chrome OS, Mac OS) and a mobile OS (Android, iOS). They just need to make it fully customizable for every device.
  • I have some hopes BUT I'm tired of beta OS's and starting over
  • Awesome article!
  • thanks for copy n pasting the article.  we dont need to give them hits for advertising purposes.
  • Your wrong about ios. IPhone 4 can not run ios8
  • I wont switch permanently but I have been going back and forth between WP and android and the apps for windows phone especially MS own just don't stack up against androids. Its ridiculous, how does Microsoft expect developers to take their OS serious when they don't even put out quality apps themselves. The official apps that do get released are incomplete just like the MS apps. I have been with windows phone from day one and really would like to see it get taken serious. I am a little worried but also excited at the same time about windows 10 tho. I dont want to lose to much of what i love about windows phone to windows RT.
  • Best article Dan has written kudos to you windows 10 for president
  • Where is the 100megapixel phone
  • Great article, Daniel. Thanks. Would love to see it updated with your thoughts about the changes from 8.0 to 8.1 which seem to have stopped a lot of development dead in the water as companies/devs wait for a majority of users to switch over to 8.1. I could see this being incredibly frustrating for people who are already trying to develop for a tiny (if dedicated!) pool of users. 
  • About the reason WP7 used CE and not NT: the reason is exactly the one you stated JoeB said it during its keynote at the event where they unveiled WP8 for the first time ("Windows Phone Developer Summit")
  • I'll stick to WP. I am really satisfied.
  • Microsoft really needs to release a pure Windows 10 handset (i.e. Surface Phone) that is unlocked and affordable, sold at the Microsoft Store. Most of us would here would buy it.
  • Forgive me if someone already pointed this out, and not to detract from this very interesting article but "banaler"is my new favorite non-existent word!
  • That article was dumb. I wrote an app in 2010 for WP 7.0, and without any modifications, it still runs on Windows phone 8.1. That being said... Windows Phone needs three components to make any kind of appreciable in-roads to mind /market share (in the US). A compelling dev story - Windows 8.1 solved this, but 10 will be much better. Scaling true desktop apps up (xbox) and down (WP) should be a huge selling point for apps like Spotify, Instagram, etc. A phone for normal humans - No more fat, no more phablet... give me a sleek and modern 925. Camera humps are in. Enterprise - Execute for their constituants. Broken Lumia's are cheaper to replace than broken iPhones and they still have a more fluid UI than Android. They need to make the enterprise experience seamless. They still need to execute on all the things that have given them any kind of clout... Camera, UI, durability, Cortana, Maps. If they can do this, they may have a shot.
  • Speak for yourself... I have to have a phablet. After experiencing the Nokia 1520, nothing else will do.
  • They forgot to mention its up to carriers and OEMs.
  • I don't get why everyone is convinced WP8.1 devices won't be upgradable to Windows 10. The kernel won't be changing again, I see no reason why it won't work (even if some features are removed on older hardware).
  • Indeed. Another argument is that a desktop OS cant possibly run on phone hardware. But do these people think MS is really going to give up on the low-end? Of course Windows 10 will run on cheap phones.
  • An hater reversing facts to create confusion, nothing new under the sun. Clearly he is aware of Microsoft's strategy and likes it but hates MS. So he accuses them of not doing the very thing they are doing. Must be terrible to be locked in an ecosystem and seeing another ecosystem do what you'd wish your own was doing.
  • I am pretty sure that WP 8 handsets will get the upgrade to W10. We had heard rumors about the unified OS going back to last year IIRC. At that time we were told that WP 8 handsets would be upgradeable to Windows 9. I am sure Windows 9 (now called Windows 10) was already in the pipeline at the time (since something like an OS takes a long time to code) so this Windows 10 we are seeing now isn't something they just made up last month.
  • Well written, Daniel. Here in Sweden, the perception issue is overwhelming. Most refer to Windows Phone as Windows Mobile, and often think of the old 6.0 UX or something Windows 98/ME-like, or they don't know it at all, or they simply refer to it as Windows; they also don't get the difference between Windows Phone apps and Windows 8 apps. Apps on a desktop OS seems to be incomprehensible. I think Universal Apps couldn't have come soon enough, and Windows 10 will help even further. Not to mention the adv