Chris Capossela, Chief Marketing Officer for Microsoft, appeared on the TWiT network's Windows Weekly this week where he gave his thoughts on how the company needs to move forward to make Windows Phone competitive, hinting at a Surface-like path.
As reported by GeekWire, Capossela referenced the success of Microsoft's approach to the Surface line of tablets, acknowledging the company's earlier misfires with the lineup, but noting their eventual "breakthrough" with customers in terms of their hardware design and flexibility to be both a tablet and PC. Speaking further, Caposella said that Windows Phones need a sort of "spiritual equivalent" to the Surface tablet, giving a hint of what the future may hold:
"We need some sort of spiritual equivalent on the phone side that doesn't just feel like it's a phone for people who love Windows," he said. "It's got to be a phone where it's like, 'Wow, that's a real shock or that's a real breakthrough, and (for an Apple customer) that's going to make me pause before I buy my 17th iPhone.' And we need time to actually go build that."
Keep in mind that this doesn't really confirm the oft-rumored Surface Phone, but it certainly sheds some light on where Microsoft may be headed with the platform. And while Caposella may not have outright confirmed a Surface Phone, he did somewhat confirm the existence of a Lumia 650 during the interview.
In any case, you can check out the full interview (and it's well worth it) at the link below. And let us know what you'd want out of a potential Surface Phone given Caposella's comments.
Watch Chris Caposella on Windows Weekly 445
For a more nuanced discussion check out our thought piece 'The future of Windows Mobile – Does Microsoft want to reboot the concept of a phone?' for what Microsoft is trying to do.
Source: GeekWire
Reader comments
Windows Phone needs 'spiritual equivalent' to Surface, says Microsoft's marketing head
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Please release the Surface Phone, I have been supporting the new Windows phone since the Nokia Lumia 828. I have had the Lumia Icon 1 month shy of 2 years and somehow Verizon needs to update their line........ I refuse to give up on the Windows phone, as a former iPhone and Mac person, I am all Windows, including my Surface Pro 3...........
The key to the successful Surface Phone would be a Microsoft invention that enables you to switch processors when docked in various forms. As a SmartPhone, it'll utilize say an Atom processor, a Core i5U as a Tablet when docked to some continuum-tablet dock that converts it into a full Surface Pro. The Surface Pro has already merged the gap between the Tablet, Laptop and Desktop PC form-factors, the Surface Phone would just be taking that further.
I will be back on on WM10 once this comes out... can't wait....
The phone is not going to be a game changer. I repeat it's not going to be a gamer changer until you somehow strike a deal with android or apple to port some of there apps over to Microsoft. Only then will that put microsoft in the same playing field. Also microsoft needs to team up with Samsung to create a metal high end phone for Windows. This is common sense. You don't need a masters or education to realize this or to come up with idea.
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I am a windows phone fan and want MS to succeed with it. I want to draw analogy from the Surface line itself which was major failure in its first two avatars and forced MS to bear huge losses. However, with Surface-3 and more significantly with Surface-4, they have indeed turendd the corner. I am hoping despearately that they do so with the surface phone as well. They have incurred huge looses with Lumia series so far, but if they could really come up with something that is truly revolutionary with Surface Phone, I am sure that despite the app gap, windows phones will succeed eventually. I am OK if it does not become the no.1 mobile OS in the world, but it needs to be atleast a respectable no.3
Time to try out Android while MS gets house in order. Been here since Trophy, tired of waiting.
No one is arguing about specs vur for WP specs don't really effect your experience and therefore the look and feel of the phone is the most important aspect. These new 950s look like garbage compared to the 920/1020/830/930. I can be picky if the looks when MS is charging premium flagship prices
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XMNgfEVk8oo
I set my Icon back to 8.1 today. 10 is still terribly unstable. I was with Microsoft and their devices from Zune. They really had something then. I looked for the Zune phone, then came the HTC Surround, then the Lumia 900. Immediately Microsoft released Windows phone 8 which wouldn't work on the 900. I had to buy a 920, I bought 5 for my family. Microsoft came out with 8.1 but we couldn't get it for ages. Eventually I bought my son and I Icons and after what seemed like a lifetime 8.1 came to Verizon. I was so angry about the dreadful roll out and delay of 8.1 that the announcement of 10 made me ill to think of the process. Now 10 is released on the 950/950xl, but the same version on my Icon is terrible! I was a fan but Microsoft have made themselves a nuisance to me and they really don't care. They make businesses deals on One drive then change their minds? I don't like where Microsoft is going. They are churning out turds after telling all their secrets two years in advance so that Android can release that same hardware months sooner. There is STILL an atrocious app gap, their software (once the best in the world) is now the equivalent of middle school programming projects. If you say that they are ******** up then they give pat media answers. Surface phone? Now? And you need two years to build it? Android will have a holographic AI that does your grocery shopping and walks the dog by then! Microsoft, you can't get my hopes up anymore. That two years after the Icon that there were no flagships, that's when you should have built the Surface Phone. Phones are your stepchild that you think about after the fact. You can't innovate from the *** end. Waiting until everyone releases better, more stable phones and then releasing sub-par, unfinished products is a sham. I don't know what my next phone will be, but it won't be a Windows phone and it won't be on Verizon.
We need a reworked Windows Phone 7, running all the Android Apps. WP7 was a great OS that performed better than all the competing OSs. (c.f. Smoked by Windows Phone). WP8.X and WM10 lack ambition.
Close the App gap first, then consumers may show some interest. Killing off Astoria was the death of Windows Phone. We need to get consumers introduced to the superior WP user experience,, But without running Android apps this will never happen.
So much hate for the 950. Wierd. I wonder if they actually have a 950 or 950xl? I personally love the phone. I am not disappointed in the slightest by it. Qi, fast charging, great camera, continuum, office, storage capacity (I have 96 GB), the screen is gorgeous.
Mine does not creak. It is light. People complain about the look of it, I have a case on it. So I have no idea what it looks like. I just don't understand...if it is that upsetting to some...leave head to iPhone or Android...I almost went iPhone, I am glad I didnt.
One thing I will say...I have not seen a single add yet...maybe they are waiting for final software?
Microsoft don't do marketing or advertising for phones, period!
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Wrong, they just need to do stop ******* off the current customers of windows phone. Windows 10 mobile is still not stable, MS needs to stabilize this quickly and 10.0.x should come out. Marketing at MS still has some of legacy of Balmer :-(
I am a 100% windows phone man, but I feel like no matter what phone Microsoft puts out next, if they don't make a big push to bring the apps that people want to the app store then the results are going to be the same as this year and they will become the new blackberry.
Think they've become complete idiots. With Lumia 950 and 950 XL they have the best hardware available. Just hit that clown Panay with something hard and get all in on supporting and advertising them.
Such clowns...
Wee need apps and a great OS. The existing phones are not the biggest problem.
Really? And they came up with this idea all by themselves?
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I'm not sure what he means by "spiritual equivalent," but to me, it means a device that is inspiring--not just to consumers, but to OEM partners. Software issues aside, part of the challenge with Windows 8 was that OEMs didn't know what to create. Should they create 2-in-1 convertible laptops/tablets? Tablets with detachable keyboards? Typical laptops? Microsoft told them they can create any of those, but the OEMs had no idea which ones would be successful and resonate with consumers and businesses. And they weren't about to tool up for a massive production effort in order to throw a bunch of formfactors against the wall to see which ones stick.
And while the 1st-gen Surfaces were largely sales flops, they were a tangible sign of Microsoft's vision and sparked interest among enthusiasts--partly because they were made by Microsoft, but also because they were well-built. But most importantly, despite the lack of sales success, Microsoft didn't give up on Surface. It continued making and releasing new models, each one successively better and more successful than the previous. And OEMs took notice.
It's not about a specific device, it's about commitment. Commitment is what Microsoft has shown with the Surface and what has been lacking with WIndows Phone. Microsoft has to accept that there will be "losses" before there will be wins and to remain committed. If it takes a device to demonstrate this, then so be it. But it has to be one that causes folks--especially the press--to take notice. Yes, there will still be the app gap, and the accessory gap, and potentially a bunch of other reasons why critics cannot recommend it to most users--just like with the 1st-gen Surfaces. But if the device causes critics to stop and evaluate it seriously, then Microsoft has done something right.
They need time huh? Boy it seems they've had plenty of that.
Indeed...
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This seems interesting...
Samsung is suppose to be working on a foldable/bendable phone.
I hope we hear more news about Google's project Ara, I wonder how the market will react to a modular phone.
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And then how about speed and battery life ? can't put an I5 or I7 into a phone battery needed too big , must be an Atom which mean the speed will be sub par .
MS has unfortunately established a track record of too little, way too late. I'm still on the Icon. I wanted a new flagship but MS talked about it for nearly two years and waited for Android and ios to release new phones. 950/950xl have better hardware specs than Apple but not Android. Both Apple and Android are nearly twice as fast at most functions as either Windows phone. I understand that a unified ecosystem will eventually pay dividends in the app gap area. The problem that I see is that MS is not taking phones seriously. They have NOT dedicated the people or resources to Windows mobile that they have to their other ventures. That is just another reason why app writers and companies like Verizon are not taking them seriously. When you wait nearly two years to release new flagships that have the same hardware as previously released Android phones and release it with incomplete software then you are not serious! Get the os together and release state of the art hardware with it, that's how you compete. You cannot lead from behind! If you won't get out front, no one will have confidence in you.
The Lumia line failed in terms of market share only because of the lack of apps , rest is good .So Microsoft came up with continuum as a first step to bridge the gap between phone and desktop , and now the surface phone that will run on x86 will be capable to use Win10. Very clever . I see two issues , first a way to reduce cost and second will people sacrify mobility ( bigger monitor needed) to run legacy software ? If only used in mobile, how good a software designed for 12 inch or bigger will be on a 5 or 6 inch display . Or will it run the current set of app which the market don't buy +desktop software designed for much bigger monitor ? Will the phone be huge ? Anything more then 5" am not interested. Many unknown here .
No way I'm getting a 950 or 950xl when I have my 1520. Note enough upgrades for me to upgrade sorry lol
Wow they realized it soooooooo sooooooooooon!!!
I think the next step of evolution will be to get rid of mobile altogether and by that I don't mean giving up on windows phone. We complain so much about apps, but let's face it: Many apps are nothing but glorified web wrappers. I'm talking about the next page in the Windows 10 book: The broad adoption of having one full OS on all devices. My choice of applications shouldn't be determined by the device I use. Ever tried to run all your iOS apps on a MacBook? I believe Windows 10 Is the next big thing. Yes it needs polishing, but I believe one of the reasons everyone is moaning and groaning about it is simply due to the fact that MSFT is ahead of the game on this one and consumers just don't see it yet. I believe once windows is truly unified across devices without any compromise and works flawless, no matter the device, Windows will see huge adoption in what we call the mobile segment. Just look at what they did on the surface pro. I can't count how often I have read "iPad is good, but surface runs a full desktop OS". This is, IMO, where we need to head.
Finally someone talking sense around here!
Microsoft is not competing with Apple and Google in this smartphone game, they are bending the rules in their favor by leveraging the power of Windows 10. What they have set to accomplish will take time. This is just the beginning. Once Windows 10 is mature enough and the Surface Phone is out, the game will change.
The problem is people have become impatient. To wait for anything more than a month is an issue. Or a year...I personally am not a fan of yearly release cycles. It basically puts the consumer (us) in a keeping up the Jones' position. People buy into it...I like having money though.
The problem with Win 10 and Win 10 Mobile everyone expects them to be perfect from the start and to have every single app available for it. To have the ecosystem perfectly set and to not have any issues. It is implausible.
There are also quite a few people who have disdain for MS still...so that baggage is still lingering. I personally think the innovation from MS the past couple of years is amazing...the media has everyone believing Google and Apple are the innovators. Which is very sad.
Forget about a spirtual successor to the Surface. How about taking the time and effort and releasing devices and an OS that are actually finished and not half-assed embarrassements. That would be a good step.
Exactly this.
the problem isn't with those who's going to buy 17th iphone the problem with you Microsoft you are not working hard for your Mobile OS you are not giving people premium phones you are not making your mobile OS a poriority.
How about: 40mp camera , 6" display And classy lumia edgy design like the 1520 has, also I would mind having color options like yellow and red. Simply a 1520 upgrade, which is stunning. I want an upgrade to the best window 8.1 phone not downgrading to a smaller one which is round and boring and mainstream.
Really have to say, most plebs by phones not because they are faster, but because they look amazing and have a unique touch. Windows phone started the trend with colorful phones and brought the edgy design back. What brought the new 950 ? No colors, round as ****, boring looking , mainstream. Not getting it
It's Windows 10 Mobile, not Windows Phone! Windows Phone is dead. Get it? Windows 10 Mobile resonates better with consumers and fanboys.
LOL we worked so hard to erase the momoeries of the word "mobile" from people's mind becasue even when it was called "Windows Phone" people responded "Windows Mobile is no good!"
And you proclaim "Windows Mobile resonates better..." ha.
Agreed but drop Windows too. Call it Surface Mobile so its role is clear in the Surface lineup but also is a step a away from Windows Phone.
Windows needs a phone...thats all.
Surface phone may help yet no apps = no customers..
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Apps are not too much of a problem for most people. almost all the apps are available. and more apps and updates are comming everyday. sure apps are not going to be a problem as W10 grows bigger and better everyday. apps would be all equal on all 3 platforms soon. what would be important is a stable and userfriendly OS with great security. in that regards sure w10m will be on the top followed by apple and android will be the last with its fragmented and messy OS.
Apps is THE PROBLEM. I do not hear people really complaining about the OS , if talking about mobile 8.1 as mobile 10 still new . Apps is the issue . Of course not for me . For the average Joe , I mean .
Yes apps is huge problem Josh, Android & ios have quality apps updated daily, I had windows for 5 years they were lucky to be updated once a year, also half the apps o have now still aren't available, I have app comparison app and it compares what you have to what's available, half are missing
.. Or are second teir apps.
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i.e. a surface phone.
I have a 950 and my wife a 950xl. We came from a 930 and 1520, and 1020 and 920 before that. Also had a 830 to mess with preview builds of wm10. I'm sick and tired of the whining and crying. These 950 devices are hands down the best windows phones ever made. Camera on the 1020 just wins at MP count, which is useless when compared to every other advantage of the 950s camera.
Yes they need to replace snapdragon processors on Lumias with Intel atom processors and install full Windows 10 OS on it. They can have the 3rd mode namely "The mobile mode" in addition to the tablet mode and the desktop mode. Besides improving the continuum experience, it will enable Microsoft to launch common updates for all the devices. If a 7" Windows tablet can run full Win 10, so can a 6" Windows phone. Just think about it! It's time to go for the final kill....
Intel Processor and able to run Win32 apps
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Why not build a mobile os that will work on all hardware and be done with this? Take hardware out of the picture completely....
Think Nokia.
Daniel, I cannot even buy the 950xl ... Microsoft do not have the phone... How they want to be a success?
Why is not on best buy in Canada for example? Or Microsoft website in US?
No, the problem is on OS and app, not the hardware
Jop.
So true.
Regarding Microsoft being late to the party: They are writing the next chapter of the human machine interface book, single interface for all forms of hardware. No time for parties.
I'm happy with the 950XL and it gets better daily. The Windows Mobile OS is on it's way out and will be replaced by 10. This is what they have as the target and it is spot on to make our work while using tablets, phones and cloud based software and storage easier. Google is right behind them.
I just wish I could afford the 950xl or be available att.
Well done Microsoft. I send meant others have been shouting this since the first Surface, and Flip gave us nothing but slightly upgraded Nokia designs. I looked them, but they were never going to inspire a mass migration from Android.
As usual though, Microsoft's management is so late to the party that the thought now is for relevancy and survival, unsteady of leadership and vision.
Sigh...
The surface is literally the last chance I will give MS in the mobile space before moving back to Apple. But somehow I have a feeling they are going to knock it out of the park.
Wonder if apple and Android consumers complain as much? Have both at work and the os got a Lot of bugs. And on droid you got sveral different versions etc. Egen im back to work i will buy an 950xl and have my cheapo windows phone 8.1 as backup if some essential 8.1 ap has not landed yet. Totally boring to read people here who have changed and so on wtf are you doing here go to your site! Totally funny to read about suggestions for improvement and so on that existing users write. Big diff there!
My first generation Surface was mediorce at best. My 1020 was an amazing device and the best phone there was at that time. What Windows Phone needed was the sucession of it, now it may be too late.
Windows Phone needs to suck it's own d***k. I gave it up. Chose Apple. No big deal, just everything i dreamed about is in my hand. So goodbye MS, and hello Apple
Make lumia in surface design line. It would help ms with mire premium looks on there handsets.
Type Cover! If they could figure out a way to make one for the Surface Phone, then that would be in the spirit of the Surface line. W32 app compat would bring a lot more apps to the platform. A Surface Mini would help build a bridge between bigger and smaller screens, make sure they cover the full spectrum and support the Universal Platform promise.
Ecosystem, ecosystem, ecosystem. They talk about it in the interview. Leverage Windows on the desktop, for IoT, XBox, etc. Make phones citizens of a whole universe that works great together and facilitates a digital lifestyle and work life. Home automation, screen- and media casting, remote control, seemless transitions between devices, experiences enhanced by owning multiple devices that can supplement each other.
Make an Xbox Mini, the size of an Apple TV. Make an Xbox Stick, the size of a Chromecast. For media consumption and streaming as well as streaming of games.
It is the whole deal really, IMHO. Software, hardware, ecosystem. It all needs to play together.
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This is the point where fan speculation ends and the slow tease begins and its giving me all kinds of feels.
Surface Pro 4 has an M3 variant. Why don't they make Surface 4 a phablet then?
Windows phones need finished win10 for mobile. Polished and usable. There is nothing spiritual in that. Plain stuff . Simple. Story about Surface phone is for suckers. Name is irrelevant. They just need more excuses. Win 10 is stuck. Looks like they don't now what to do with it.
Windows phones need software that doesn't suck.
Daniel...you were arguing hardware yet you said if we had android apps we would just buy android..I garrentee you if the hardware was duel boot I and many others would buy Windows Hardware over samsung ect. I choose sony over all androids for hardware same as some choose samsung ect. Ms needs to decide if they want software or hardware. It probly to late for both unless duel boot
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Manage your buggy w10m first then start talking
About the 650.....worthless I know people say it's for enterprise but I have an iPhone for work and guess what at the end of day it sits in my truck. I use it only for work and nothing else. I have no interest in using it for personal like no one will either the 650 either.
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MS needs first stay a way from goofy numbers and names! Keep in logic order as surface 3, surface 4...
Everytime someone sees my phone that isn't an iPhone they quickly say "you poor thing" and I respond with no I actually really like it. Then they see it for real and say that actually looks nice. Can I see what the home screen looks like? I show them the start menu and they say"that actually looks pretty good." The OS is fine. It just needs a piece of hardware and the rigorous marketing to push it into peoples minds and hands.
Windows Phone needs 'Better marketing head', says Microsoft's marketing head.
Yeah. Lovin my 950. Once ms iron out the bugs, I got all I need.
Wow, like the Nokia 808 did? That was a WOW, but media wrote it off due to legacy operating system. Lumia 1020 was a WOW. How about new Surface phone has Micro HDMI so can plug straight into TV/monitor? Why steps backward with separate continuum dock?
Microsoft should make the Windows Phones branding and naming more simple and get away from lumia 950-1020-930 etc.
There should be a full restart and less but better and high end devices.And ways to attract people making apps for windows phone.
Building the best phone is not enough,it should attract companies build apps also for Windows Phones.
I t is a shame most apps are for ios or android.
Exactly, hope they ll be fast, competitors don t sleep...
The title is spot on! The Surface Phone will undoubtedly draw attention, but it needs something unexpected.
I truly wish MS makes a "Courier" mini. Up to date specs, with a gpu that can play pc games, even if the graphics are low resolution. Material has to be top notch, with a build quality similar or surpassing the Surface line.
2016 could prove a very successful year for Microsoft, especially as he public is losing interest in Apple, with analysts predicting decline... And the fact they lost 21% or $160bn of their share value in one day. Microsoft is becoming the new Apple, without the arrogance, and desirable hardware inspires developer confidence in the platform.
You'd have to be one blind "fan" to not see what's going on, and think Microsoft is going to have any success doing what they do today.
Count me in. Though happy with 950 hardware, some refinements would be welcome.
They need to look at the old SGH-i760 if mine didn't brick itself I'd still be using it WinMo and all today. Stylus, keypad (easily used for calculator functions,) d-pad, touch screen, sliding keyboard...that folks right there is the dream phone.
I'm on the 928 and have not had a reason to leave. I do want a Surface Phone though. It pains me to say this but I would be drawn to the brand name, making me no better than an iPhone user. I don't mind the app hap though. Only app I care about is SnapChat and I've simply come to acceptance of the absence.
Really? Your fan base has been saying this for three years and you walk on stage like you have come up with this ingenuous notion. Your companies whole leadership has its head in the sand and refuses to listen to what we tell you, no matter how much we yell it to you. This goes all the way back to Zune. We didn't want you to tear it apart to pieces and spit it back out as what we have today. But you kept saying "we are listening" and did it anyway. Get rid of your egos, STFU, and start actually doing what we tell you to do, and you might actually succeed. Or keep saying you are listening, do whatever you want, try and convince us it is what we want, then look around confused as to why you're failing.
+930
The OS needs to be a 'spiritual equivalent' to other platforms. No more catching up and rebooting BS! Give us fully functional working non-BETA apps & features!!!
Microsoft should take the time and read the comments on this site. You have loyal Windows phone owners who are totally, disappointed, disgusted, and upset with Microsoft's approach to the Windows Phone platform. Years ago when Microsoft announced the Windows Phone. There were articles talking about how Windows Phone was going to take market share from Apple and Android by 2015 and 2016. Well here we are, still waiting for that bus to arrive and guess what folks. You may be waiting much more longer or it may never come. Windows Phone central. Make it a suggestion. Have Microsoft people take the time to read these comments, so they can read the frustration from their loyal fans. DANIEL, this site by far has kept is very well informed with everything Windows, and the support you give for Microsoft is great, but they have not given us Windows phone fans what we crave for, it would be great if you guys would sit someone down at Microsoft for a one on one interview about the future fo Windows phone, then take some of the comments on here and ask them, what do you say to your loyal Windows phone fans when that say this, or they feel like this, and how do you get those loyal windows phone fans to stay, what's in it for them to stay. Why give away Cortana, why give away SmartGlass, why give away apps.
There was a reason MS rebooted wp to Windows 10 mobile. It was not meant for the fanboys. The change was twofold: universal apps and the hope of attracting Android users with the hamburger, circles, and all BSs. It hasn't worked and is not going to work. Why? There is nothing to talk about regarding w10m besides the live tiles. Why would an Android or iPhone user switch when they can get all those features and more on their device, plus MSs ecosystem. Wp8.1 probably is the best and most stable OS where MS actually listened to their fanbase.
In other news, sky is blue
It need the essential apps to be present and continues support for them, not just release a beta app and forget about it like Instagram, before everybody wants new OS, then new flagship, now new devices like surface.
No need for all of that, the only things need to are apps, good marketing, attract the companies and the Developers to develop for your OS, let them want to bring their apps to windows, otherwise Microsoft need to quit this game and stay in the shadow.
Windows Phone needs an effin' functional operating system with a soul. Windows 10 Mobile ain't that.
The name itself "Windows 10 mobile" is enough to to deter new users.
Nothing will change the general public's view of windows phone until something is done about the lack of Applications when compared to Android or iOS. Microsoft was going to convert Android applications directly to Windows 10 Mobile use, then suddenly shelved that program, without explanation. Obviously put into the " TO HARD BASKET "!!!!!
It was a terrible idea and coming out saying it was a terrible idea looks weird. Astoria would have undercut their own UWP program and long-term vision for W10.
There's no real reason to buy a Windows Phone running Android apps when you can just buy an Android phone running Android apps.
Plus there were performance issues, since it was essentially an emulation. It was an interesting idea that was flawed.
There's no reason for anyone to buy Windows 10 mobile period. You also own an iPhone and an Android phone. You know why. Apps and MSs ecosystem are all there!
The same can be said of ported iOS apps. At this point an iPhone is looking really good. You get better MS apps too.
So, if that "spiritual equivalent" is meant to stop an iPhone user before (s)he buys their 17th iPhone...
HURRAH, WP-fans! If my maths serves me right, the "Surface Phone" that will finally be Microsoft's breakthrough will arrive at the same time as the iPhone 10S.
Which should be released in September 2023. It's coming soon™!
At least we can pretend they'll have the OS sorted by then
Majority of fanboys are doing just that.
Or with a 2 year iPhone upgrade cycle, in about 2040. Yay!
I haven't heard much in the way of ideas about what could be a killer surface phone. Personally i think if you take a blackberry priv, give it the specs of the 950xl but with an x86 capable processor, that'd be super. The kicker... Replace that physical keyboard with yet another screen that can pull triple duty as a keyboard, or track pad, or second screen to run split screen on your phone. Just imagining a hand held like that makes me weak in the knees
I have to see it the believe it. They been saying this time and time again. In my opinion, in order for people to say wow, Microsoft would have to make it be more impressive than any Candy version of Android or iOS out there. The feel, the function, the look, the style and most of all, app development support which has been soooooo lacking, and media recognition. I seen apps being advertised on tv showing "out now for iOS and Android", but not Windows phone even if the app is available on all three. So, I'm not holding my breath, I just about come to the realization that I'm never going to own a windows phone that matters, I'll never get any apps that I want or would want. I have come sooooo close to throwing in the towel and getting a flagship Android phone, mainly a Galaxy phone since Samsung is pretty much the gold standard of Android phones. Why not, I get to keep Cortana, all the Microsoft apps since they managed to feel like it's a good idea to be friendly with the competition and give apps away. Why should I stay with Windows phone. What's in it for me??? One of my good friends after so many years, he through in the towel and got a Galaxy note. So what is the incentive for me to keep Windows phone? I can't even get mh hands on new Lumia with out having to shell down over $600. No carrier is supplementing the phone. How's that?, it's the failure of Microsoft. Where is my credit card pay, where is my finger print scanner? Where are the apps? I know, you gotta go where the parties at, Android or Apple because the party on Windows phone is lame. Call me Mr. Disappointed Windows phone consumer.
You should do it. I switched to the Galaxy S5 after Windows Phone 8.1 got released. I was getting tired of still being behind. Now i own my Note 4 for a little over a year and i don't have 1 regret. Not looking to switch back. Microsoft really are amateurs when it comes to their own mobile OS. Their services on Android work so flawlessy.
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I switched to the iPhone. Did not realize how much I missed out those past 5 years. I can't see myself going back to Windows 10 mobile. The reason I switched was not the OS fault. I just couldn't tolerate MSs incompetence any longer!
Every recent performance comparison Between Lumia 950xl with iPhone 6s and/or Nexus 6P. Lumia 950xl unable to impress people even if it has best in class hardware with 2x specification.
I think I'm loosing hope on Lumia and Finger crossed for the Surface phone (Last hope). O:)
Here are the Comparison Video Links
> Lumia 950xl vs iPhone 6s plus vs nexus 6P
"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtBHW5Nn2zI"
>Lumia 950xl vs iPhone 6s plus
"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ7mhIUZJlE"
The problem is Windows Phone has always been super slow when it comes to app launches and doing everyday work. What is really annoying is that the response time of Cortana is way too long compared to Google now and Siri. While Cortana is still "calculating" the other digital assistents are already replying. No wonder the AAA published a study which showed that Cortana is distracting drivers more than Siri or Google Now does.
WP needs decent FB, Twitter, Instagram and Snapchat. Nothing more
I think if they can produce a phone that will be embraced by the business community then that will eventually spill over into personal phone choices. That's how it happened with blackberry.
We need banking apps and a few more apps. We have Essentials already.
FB, Twitter and Instagram are on their way for W10M.
It's already in the 950/XL. MS should forget about iphones, but focus on Android phones.
In essense we just need apps and apps...
I hate to say it, but I would not be surprised if Microsoft kills WinMo and switches to a custom version of Android. Numerous signs in the direction Visual Studio is going point to this.
That doesn't fit the "One OS" strategy. Microsoft doesn't care about phones unless they are running Windows. They would rather get out of the phone business because if it isn't about expanding the software, it is about nothing; certainly not about selling hardware.
Just look at the phone field: who, besides Apple and Samsung, is making substantial profit? Sony? HTC? Why would Microsoft want to get into that mess of a market with yet another version of something numerous veteran manufacturers have tried and failed?
If VS includes tools for Android, it's for VS's sake; not for Android's sake.
Very well said AgentTheGreat.
I don't understand why people are so obsessed with this Surface Phone idea. I think, Lumia 950/XL is pretty good in terms of hardware. Is it the design? Is it the ability to run Win32 apps? What is it that makes people look forward to this Surface Phone?
I think it's the "premium" tag that's been missing.
You just answered you own question.
Lumia 950/XL have room for improvements but I am certain those improvements wouldn't do much to sales, since the core problem with current situation is the software and not the hardware. And Lumia 950/XL will -hopefully- get all the love in the upcoming years as well as any other Windows Phone.
But this Surface Phone rumors concern me. Should I not get Lumia 950, because Panos considers them some kind of stepchild and Microsoft won't update them as well as this upcoming Surface Phones with Intel processor inside them? Like what happened to Surface RT?
People look at the surface pro 4 and the surface book and somehow think the surface phone will do the same thing. When in reality, the 950 and 950 XL are stellar devices, has the specs,has the hardware, Has pretty good software it's just a little tuning up & We all know that's possible because it's software.
I paid $650 for my 950xl, thats a premium price for a highend phone. You guys hate when ms makes the Lumia act like a iOS or android device yet this constant moaning about "premium" being defined by metal on the side of the phone is getting ridiculous.
It's just the way it is. Metal implies premium. The 950 family might be powerful and high-end but certainly not premium looking. It's like putting a V12 in a Prius and selling it alongside a Rolls Royce. Sure the Prius will become a beast, but people who want a premium car will still prefer a Rolls Royce, right?
Yes, it s the boring design and poor looking materials mainly.... WP10 is a beast but needs some more time to be optimized on many aspects (app start time, app page navigation, app to app communication (just try to share something via outlook...), etc.
Definitively an error to sell a mediocre looking phone with an unfinished os, in my opinion.... Lumia brand is ruined, just asks to the average user, probably does not know wp, if he does, he ll say "my friends say it is not good". We need a a rebranding, "Surface Phone" could be the last chance to change the situation, as it inspires high quality.
But it MUST be a really "wow" device or it is the end of any dream to be the n.1 in next 10 years :(
The reason we look forward to the Surface Phone is because it will be a real Microsoft flagship and not a Nokia that is just branded as Microsoft. We saw that Panos and his team is capable of 'reinventing categories' and that's what Microsoft needs at this point to succeed in the smartphone game. They cannot win against iOS, let alone Android, so they have to really redefine what a phone is and bend the rules in their favor. And I don't think there is anyone more capable of doing this other than Panos Panay and his team.
The ever illusional "light at the end of the never-ending tunnel"...
And the 950xl rocks despite all the bad press. Continuum is good for now and if they both get an upgrade next year to a surface standard device with all the trimmings then great! But a first gen device... Nope. My Surface pro 3 has no bugs but the devices before certainly did. Please release it next year MS so my upgrade in two years time will be something way way better.
Who cares about 650. It does absolutely nothing to revive downtrodden WP enthusiasts.
The 650 is likely geared to businesses for employees
IMO What MS needs to ******* do is what Google & Apple do.... SELL THE ******* PHONES UNLOCKED ON DAY ONE, and **** AT&T only BULLSHIT.
Exactly. I held onto my burnt up busted 928 for almost a year past contract just to learn 950 is a ATT only.
They do sell all their phones unlocked.
Everything is sold out from day 1. They actually never released for new customers. Only pre ordered people.. I want to buy but they say it's sold out from past two months.
The fact that the phones are sold out from day one is a good problem to have...if ms looks at demand and comes up with say 100 phones per store, and demand from day one is 300... What do you expect them to do other than make more 950s.
You are not getting my point. I want to buy the phone unlocked but can't. They never made phones for in store stock.. May 10 per store.. Because I went to store on day one and they didn't have it..
I agree they should be easier to get. They're always sold out, which means people are going to get other phones that are actually available.
I'm normally not a Microsoft appologist...but in this case, BLAME THE US MARKET. Only in the USA is that a problem. The phones are being sold around the World unlocked and carrier-free since day one...So...you see where the problem is, right?
For once I agree. In iPhone country the market is pretty iPhone messed up.
Outside the US it's Android all over the place with a proper 10% in Europe for Windows phone.
Plus here in PH, the 950/xl are bundled with mozo cases. So I think it's just the US market suffering from this.
16 iPhones... Did I read that right? One mobile every two years does me.
Move to suburbia. Lol
They've released two or three per year since it all began.
Uh, no.
Same here Jay. Rocking my 520 since September 2013 :)
Same, but I really want to get a Lumia 830
The issue is that yeah they need awesome new hardware with software that matches it (no bugs). The fact is people still won't want one due to the lack of apps. Until we start seeing commercials with "get our app on the App Store, Google Play, and Windows Store!" I wouldn't hold my breath. Yeah an awesome phone may generate interest and get us to at least 5% market share in the US, but I just don't see anything big happening until they get apps. Which sucks cause WP hands down has the best **** mobile keyboard ever.
I suppose they could have some top secret plan with like the top 100 or whatever apps on iOS to be ported over with a new Surface phone using their new software that no one knows about yet.
Yeah, well those top 100 iOS apps, just need to be ported over, you don't need to wait for the surface phone for launch to support , get them over now, once we get developers supporting we're good to go to 950 and 950. XL are quite good devices. No questions about that, we have good cameras. We got expandable storage, we have windows hello, what's more there to ask, just the apps.
The biggest problem in terms of apps is the lack of local apps. Like the local mall or taxi company. Also product apps, like thermostat controls, remote car starters, security camera controls.
Yeah, the old app gap. Personally I get a bit annoyed when I go to a conference and no app for it, but not actually missing anything. Happy to support 3rd party for others like Strava. I am fortunate that my bank here in new Zealand has an app and air new Zealand also. Might be better support her than in the US from local devs perhaps. If any of you come here to do some back country adventure get NZ Topo Maps - another example of good local support, it free and better than the ios similar app.
What alternative are you using for Strava. Happens to be the one app I wish was natively available on WP. Im currently using Striver but it really isn't a proper alternative. Apparently Strava isn't very forthcoming allowing 3rd parties access to proper APIs.
"commercials with "get our app on the App Store, Google Play, and Windows Store!"". I just got an email from MS about Groove after i signed up. And it lists Apple and Google store, and for Windows it says "Coming soon". Big WTF.
Lol. And that is the story of Windows Phone.
We're getting there. It's not the hardware, it's nowhere close to the hardware. It's the software we already got the Lumia 950 on the 950 XL. And many persons like it, it has all the features most of our Windows users world is asking for. It's just the software little Jitters here little jitters there, but the overall it's pretty good. We're getting there.
Rollindice, that's my point as well, my 950xl is very near to becoming "my smartphone" nothing more, nothing less. My 950xl will become a commodity style phone like android and ios. Do any of you guys really think the majority of iOS and android users oh and awe every time they pickup their smartphones?
Well at least surface phone should be released like iPhone on same date all around globe. So that it grabs the headlines all over and people jus start speak abt it.
Yup. A little bit of hype goes a long way.
^ This. Worldwide near immediate post-launch availability is a must. Anything longer than 14 days max is a waste of effort. If the carriers won't play, then release unlocked but compatible. Pay the extra certification fees as necessary to enable functionality on all carriers. I get it that doing this is not without numerous challenges, but Microsoft needs to do it if they truly are serious about mobile.
Here's a toast to hoping they get that done! I'm not sure what it would take for that dream to come true but I'm certainly optimistic.
It is not even so much the hardware. Foe the most part, the hardware has always been great. But they need to better refine the software as well as providing compelling reasons to choose Lumia phones.
Start releasing these phones globally at the same time and not months' after announcement and for once actually guerilla market your devices and their features. There is your key to success.
That's because they produced so few of them, not because it's selling so well, dude. The 950 line isn't, and won't be, more than a blip on the radar.
Marketing could increase the demand for the device, justifying the expense to make more. But, like you said, it is just more dissatisfied customers due to the mediocre software, bugs and lack of apps. They have been able to move some low end devices over the years, but those people didn't upgrade to higher end Windows Phones as Micrsoft had hoped. The mediocre experience just made then switch to Android or iOS when the time came.
Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
The whole point Chris makes in that quote is providing compelling reasons and yes, it is about the hardware. It's about pushing beyond.
It's the software Daniel. It has always been the software.
The reviews on 950/950xl are laughable cause the software is so half baked. And I'm a WP/WM fan. Reviews are basically telling consumers to stay away til the software gets worked out. Not WinCentral obviously. Haha.
MS cant win, ATM. We all screamed for new hardware and now we are annoyed the software isn't ready.
Posted via the Note 4/Nexus 7 (2013)/Lumia 1020/Lumia 2520
The fact that they should have had a flagship every year is obvious and shouldn't require screaming. ****, that's the minimum you should have: something to showcase the software on.
But I've always screamed about the software here. I was there when these so called "fans" didn't want the 8.1 notification center (as a side note I'd really love a poll asking who isn't using the notification center on 8.1) and I was there when they brought in the "hamburger menu" (as a symbol of the direction things were headed) to practically kill what WP stood for.
It's not just that the software isn't ready; the fact that the software has no identity, that it goes a long way to be a half-implementation of Android and has Continnum as such a big deal when any Android device connected to a big screen, stretching its apps just like it does on tablets is practically the same thing...these are all shortcomings - to put it mildly - on top of releasing beta software on $750 devices and expecting people to keep waiting.
The first time this so called "agile" development came into existence no one could have thought we'd be faced with half functional software released to public use. I remember the days when we argued whether Mac did it better or Windows: the placement of buttons, the feel of the software, whether a top screen menu makes more sense or menus inside windows...and now, maybe 8 years later, we're given this amalgamation of cr@p as a phone OS and expected to wait until it reaches the potential that honestly, it could have on 8.1 and was destroyed on 10.
Daniel says the idea of project Astoria to bring in Android apps was terrible because "why would we not get an Android device if apps are the same?" Well, he is right. But I ask now: why wouldn't we get an Android device if Windows now lacks design, and still has no apps on top of the design thing? We stuck around for the design. And now we don't even have that.
This guy explains it best:
http://wmpoweruser.com/goodbye-windows-phone-you-will-be-missed/
I agree partly. Design has took a step backwards but I do not think they lost all of their identity. They are slowly vetting some coherence and I for one life their new iconography. Also they are doing away with these uber sharp contrasts. While they may have looked cool, they were not easy on the eye and it normally is a no-go in design to do something like that.
Apps fo not get stretched out with continuum. This is the main difference and why continuum is so interesting (although it very much is a proof of concept right now): Apps do adapt to another way of input with mouse and keyboard. And are therefore optimised to work with this input other than just being stretched out.
Windows 10 is definitely not ready yet. They know that the experience in the 950 is subpar. Therefore it is not getting marketed a lot. I actually do not know what to think of the 950.
Developers didn't bother creating Android apps that scaled with screen size. What will make them not only start making apps for Windows, but make them responsive? Micrsoft doesn't have an answer for that. They didn't even have any big app launches to go with the release of Windows 10.
Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
Well, according to Microsoft it should be very easy to create responsive apps with the tools provided. I am no developer, so I cannot tell whether that is true or not. But I know that most of my favourite apps already have gone universal, so I would consider it a success.
Also I am not sure if windows phone will get any love from windows 10 developers, but I am pretty sure that at least the desktop will see lots of apps coming in the future, simply because the platform is so big and convertibles are getting more and more common and desktop-applications as well as websites can only do so much to be touchfriendly.
True. It's always been about the software. Winmo10 is so convoluted and takes way too many extra steps to do the simplest things it's ridiculous. In each winmo revision it gets worse. The whole vision in WinPhone7 and 8 is completely lost or terribly broken. I have no idea how they are making Winmo10 publically available. It's a mess.
Software is a major issue. W10mobile is a step back in features (I like the design choices but Microsoft just can't help but keep removing features competitors have and it's just embarrassing)
It's as if in some instances they just did things backwards for the sake of change. There is literally no additional features or advantage for many of the things they've changed. It is soooo odd. Many parts of the OS feels like it was designed in silos by completely different groups. Worst project management ever.
I guess WM10 was built from the ground up an a lot of things were scrapped (if not 8.1 in complete was scrapped). So a lot of features have to get re-implemented. They will probably be added again, but they now are busy getting their platform to a usable state so I guess we will have to play the waiting game. The biggest new feature is, that it goes hand in hand with Windows10 desktop and since Microsoft does care about their desktop platform we might just get some updates in time from now on!
A certain amount of it is about the hardware, I agree. But without quality software to back it up, even the best, most innovative hardware in the world is just a paperweight. Windows 10 Mobile is a travesty of bad design, its UX inferior to its predecessor in nearly every way. Yes, it has some improved technical underpinnings, but it's harder to use, less fluid than 8x was, and is riddled with bugs. It crashes, it freezes, it lags, and even on the identical processor with identical RAM and storage capacities, Android devices *smoke* it.
Remember the days of the "Smoked by Windows Phone" campaign? Yeah, that isn't happening anymore, because WP is less user friendly, less optimized and poorly designed.
Absolutely agree with your software statement. They're already running good ads here in India for the new Lumias.
I think at launch we all accept W10 mobile was rough. I had terrible battery drain. Now on .36 inside build and it's very nice.
Was .36 pulled? I bought my wife 640 and upgraded it to W10M. Fast Track offered .29 not .36.
BTW, her 640 easily outperforms my 925, but I'm going to limp along and maybe go for a 650... Or 950 if I can swing that.
Open the Insider app, select Fast ring again and let it reboot, then check for updates. You'll get .36 as an update to .29.
The only phone I would buy is a Surface Phone. Especially since nothing I see seems to be a step forward than my Lumia 1020.
Except it says nothing of the sort.
Mate, shhhh.
Yeah, I have to agree with you. I've been a windows mobile fan since the beginning, but im beginning to feel like they've list track/touch with the mobile side of things.
We all were hoping for miraculous things when MS bought Nokia, yet that seems to have been their biggest mistake yet! There has been little notable to come out of Redmond since this acquisition, nor dis the even remotely capitalize on the momentum they had prior. No 1020 spin up, nothing from the 1520, and the current lineup clearly fails to impress - even with solid specs.
Im afraid that MS realization to these facts has come way too late. Not only has the ship sailed, its made its destination port, and is on the way back. They talk about a "surface" phone for late 2016? By then the market will be looking at windows mobile the same way it does blackberry - if they're not already.
Look, im eyeballs deepin the mobile industry, and what I see is a lack of support from MS on all fronts, and consumers respond to that lack with disinterest. I see the potential, but its not being pushed with any vigor by MS, and its a shame.
Not been to look at a Lumia 950xl yet then? It's a game changer a truly superb piece of kit..
That ugly thing you mean? L930 has a better design than that crap. I wish I could get a L930 design with the 950 specs :/
Slap a case / cover on it. Problem solved. The phone is good. It's the software that's the current problem. Unified by clumsily tacking everything together throughout the ecosystem is far different than unified it terms of style, function and purpose. The failure of W10M is having a mishmash of everything mixed together rather than something with any sense of refinement. I know that many will say that will be coming soon. Sadly, that is now the joke. Common themes, styles, functions and placements of things is now needed. Without that, it looks like an unplanned mess. Without stability, it looks unready and unworthy of respect.
I personally like the design of the 950 series, though not as much as the 830/930 design, but "slap a case on it" is NOT "problem solved" for somebody who thinks a phone is ugly.. Ugly is ugly, and nobody wants to go home with ugly.
Yeah. One can clearly see that Windows 10 in general (even on desktop) just is not finished yet ...
L930 is a thick brick. You need to find a better example if you want to talk about design. And I'm glad that the new phones, as ordinary as they look, do not look like a 930.
Sorry, but the material on that device where way better. Also, while it might not was to everyone's liking, it had a certain distinctive design to it. The 950 looks so bland. They did away with all the colour and went with white and black. This saddens me. I don't think this phone is a failure though. And at least these mozo cases do something about it
Unless you are a Verizon customer in the US. Then is isn't much more than a $600 paper weight.
The 950 XL a game changer? Don't know at what game, but certainly not at the smartphone-game.
A phone that feels like a Nexus 5 with unfinished mediocre software is a game changer? Your expectations are very low!
Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
Its no different to go from 2% marketshare to relevance than it is to go from 0%. At least unlike Blackberry, Windows Phone doesn't have to make money.
So true Trev.
+1..
We've known about Surface branding for years, but its honestly only gained major traction this last year or two. It's not as overdue as we'd like to think.
Posted via the Note 4/Nexus 7 (2013)/Lumia 1020/Lumia 2520
No what he's implicitly saying is, that when it comes to what phone os's do today, with the app-centric model that has been established, there is nothing they can do, they can't compete. So they keep looking for the next paradigm, but no one knows exactly what that will even look like yet. So in his words to me they are clearly saying, they have to find that before they'll be serious about competing for broad mass market appeal again. The facts are the facts, I don't think there's any real secret here other than, none o usf know what will be the next big shift. But for this one, they know they can prod along to keep in the game, so their options and toolbox (ie, carrier relationsships, broad technical ability, a place in the industry, etc) are open for when/if that time comes.
Maybe you should actually listen to what he says before making conjecture based on a single quote. The way he spoke made it seem like they actually do know where they are going next. I'm thinking you're a troll or thick or ignorant.
You are reading into the article the troll-like thoughts you have right inside your head.
You are such a moron.
The Windows cell phone hardware 'spiritual equivalent' to Surface would obviously be the Surface Phone that they are obviously working on. How is this difficult for you to comprehend? It's clear that Microsoft's new direction is all about innovating and making really inspired high end computing devices. Looks to me like they're willing to take the time to do the upcoming Surface Phone right, and I'm glad.
Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
Exactly. If that's what's necessary, then why wasnt the 950 that phone? What else are they going to forget for the next flagship? Contrary to their marketing, the Windows smartphone beta is still very much in progress (in many ways, even regress)
You choosing a dead lion over a living dog. The 950 and 950 XL a quite good devices on I'm coming from a Lumia 1020 myself.
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