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Xbox a 'multi-billion dollar' profitable business, more first-party investment on the way

We've heard rumors for years about Microsoft "selling off" the Xbox business, usually started by investors or firms with an agenda, who'd rather Microsoft focus on less volatile, less risky sectors instead. Thankfully, those investors ignorant of Xbox's importance won't be getting their way.

In a financial presentation, Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella and Xbox head Phil Spencer explained how their gaming business is critical to the company's future.

Nadella defended Xbox to Microsoft's Wall Street investment block (via Dualshockers), who seemingly lack an understanding about how Xbox, Windows 10, and the Universal Windows Platform are converging as a centralized entertainment offering.

"Most of you view gaming as 'Microsoft has ...an Xbox business.' I think you understand the console economics. But it's a much broader thing for us."

Microsoft's Chief Financial Officer Amy Hood described how Xbox is a multi-billion dollar profitable business, and is positioned well to grow further (also via Dualshockers.)

Phil Spencer went on to discuss how being at the forefront of gaming helped the company's understanding of the next wave of computing solutions, namely mixed reality and holograms, which make extensive use of 3D assets.

Microsoft detailed how Xbox Live is also the most prolific gaming social network on the web. Critically, Xbox Live is also the most profitable gaming social network on the web, where gamers remain subscribed to Xbox Live, will make use of upcoming subscription features like the Xbox Game Pass, and purchase goods from Microsoft's various service-driven games, like Gears of War 4 and Halo 5.

Phil Spencer stated an intent to invest in first-party exclusive games to accelerate Xbox adoption, including the announcement of the "next big hits" at E3 in June.

Spencer also discussed a world where Xbox Live could be a virtual space, where gamers meet and even couch co-op on a shared virtual screen. The company demonstrated this using a slide we saw at Build this week, during the mixed reality presentations.

It's encouraging to hear how intrinsic Xbox has become to Microsoft's strategy for platform engagement, as a deeply integrated aspect of Windows, rather than a separate side-project.

Sony might be leading the race in terms of console units sold, but there are tens of millions more Xbox Live subscribers out there, in a world where platform engagement is becoming increasingly important. Things like PlayStation Now and Xbox's Game Pass are likely to disrupt the industry further in the future, and Xbox is well-placed to weather the storm. E3 2017 is going to be a special one.

Jez Corden is a Senior Editor for Windows Central, focusing primarily on all things Xbox and gaming. Jez is known for breaking exclusive news and analysis as relates to the Microsoft ecosystem while being powered by caffeine. Follow on Twitter @JezCorden and listen to his Xbox Two podcast, all about, you guessed it, Xbox!

93 Comments
  • I think they once said mobile was critical to their future. Look how that's going currently. Look, when the goal is long-term, then literally anything can happen in the short term. Changes can be made at any time.
    So in that sense, you can't trust these statements with respect to any decisions you make with your money.
  • Dude you are smart 👌🏾
  • Mobile is still critical to their future, they're just using other mobile platforms instead of their own. Xbox has games on iOS and Android, FYI.
  • And when was the last time one of those was published?
  • That won't get big numbers
  • Exactly, They never said they gave up on Mobile, just take a look a Build, there's many things about Mobile, they just don't say it's for Mobile for now. But if you're not blind and completly stupid, you will see it's relate to their futur Mobile Devices... The futur of Mobile Devices for Microsoft, it's no matter which devices you will use, Android or iOS or Win 10, there's always a Microsoft App for you. We will be able to start reading something on an iPhone and finish it later on a destop running Windows or why not Linux? This is a far more interesting futur than the actual Smartphones, peoples don't understand Smartphones are going to die and Mobile doesn't mean Smartphones anymore... Move on guys, if you're not happy with what's Microsoft doing, just go to Apple or Android, nobody blames you...
  • "Smartphones are going to die and mobile doesn't mean smartphones anymore". O.o
    Couple of billion android and apple phone fans don't agree.
    I'm an avid WP fan but that is just blind fanboy BS.
  • It's naive to think smartphones are going to remain forever. They're not.
  • Smartphones are likely just a stepping stone.  But MS isn't ignoring them and is repositioning Windows 10 to be a hub for devices that can make all the devices be better for the user.   I doubt that there are a couple billion smartphone fans.  Most have them out of necessity at this point and most Android users aren't fans.  In fact, very few Android phones are even run on quality hardware.  Android controls around 25% of the premium phone market while Apple is over 70% and the most popular Android phone on the planet is the Samsung Galaxy Core Prime running a Snapdragon 410 with 1GB of RAM and only 8GB onboard storage that will never be upgraded beyond Lollipop.   Most people using Android are not blown away by it because their hardware stinks and you need better specs to run it due to its nature.   iPhones are definitely a different story.  I've played musical phones and moved from W10M to Android (Nexus 6P) to iPhone (7 Plus).  Android is frustrating, even in its pure Google form.  It slows down quickly.  Battery life is unpredictable. It's hard to get a hold on rogue apps that are eating up your battery.  I know a lot of Android users, but very few of them love it.  Most tolerate it.  
  • "they're just using other mobile platforms instead of their own" So what?, The same could be said if Xbox was sold and MS Studios creates games for other platforms instead. Not a very strong rationale.
  • I do think mobile is actually doing ok. Not great but not bad. If you think mobile is just phones then its horrible. But mobile is more than phones and more than hardware for Microsoft. But xbox and xbox live has actually been a huge success for Microsoft and they have to have it to move into the living room. So I am 95% sold that they wont sell xbox at all. That said, 5% of me always wonders this time of year if this is just a play to pump up the value of xbox so they can sell it ;).
  • The difference is that Xbox has been a success for all the many years its been available and actually has a large userbase. Each console (from either 3), fails one generation and wins another ...its part of competition, you cant be on top all the time. Comparing it to Windows Mobile is like comparing apples and oranges ...regardless of whether they own one or not, everyone knows what an Xbox is ..Windows Mobile on the other hand is like a myth, where only WM users talk of this amazing platform.
  • No, Xbox was not successful at all. Userbase is not important in this case, because they were sold below cost. And then they have large hardware problems in the past. Only Ballmer's persistence saved Xbox from fail. If Nadella was there he would abandon Xbox long time ago...
  • Actually your wrong. The 360 finished profitable. And the Xbox one is profitable already. The original Xbox wasn't. Sony on the other hand lost every single piece of profit the PS2 made with the PS3 launch. The PS4 is selling at a profit though. But PSVR is apparently losing money. The R&D cost way to much and just isn't selling nearly fast enough.
  • WRONG. It was a money pit, but they threw more money at it and actually tried their hardest to move II forward. You have no clue what you are talking about
  • The 360 pit your referring to was rrod. That was in the first year batch. The 360 had an 8 year life cycle and slim made a massive profit as well.
  • Only the first year batch? lol
  • Hate to say it but it was more likely up till 08 consoles that had the falcon boards. Anything before that was more than likely to fail. And even then the falcons did have a bit of a failure rate but not as bad. By 2009-10 Jasper came out (before the looks of the console changed) and that ended the who issue with red light.
  • Mobile is still critical to Microsoft's future, but your limited mindset only understands mobile to be cellphones. Microsoft has positioned themselves well in mobility by simply disrupting the iPad and Galaxy Tab business.  They remain top ten in much of the software that people download on their mobile devices. In terms of success, their phones from a hardware standpoint was not the failure, it was lack of developer support.  But in case you are missing it, Microsoft hasn't given up on the cellphone market. They've merely paused it and are regrouping to bring about something... possibly wonderfully next level.. Their mobile game is taking shape YOU just can't see it.
  • Oh my, the level of ignorance
  • Mobile isn't a multi-billion dollar profitable business. At least not the mobile people in the comments here talk of.
  • I'm a Nexus user but I think win10 ARM is a thing.
    Full win10 on a 5" tablet + sim support will make me jump. (simply, more useful) WinPhone couldn't take off because it was a separate ecosystem imo. Now everything is full Win10... I carry New Xbox Wireless Controller and Surface Pro 4 (sometimes Alienware) with me all the time. A 5" surface? Why not? A lotta easier to dock it on my controller and enjoy my XPA games~
  • 5" is to small.
  • Way Google does the os on tablets yah Microsoft has them beat by a long shot
  • You are right to a point but at least with Xbox they have a strong market sales and users and windows never had that at any point so your statement is only true for mobile phones
  • Not to forget serious gaming, amongst others for education!
  • If Nadella was there in the beginning of Xbox, it would be long gone...
    And if Ballmer was still here, he would make Windows Mobile successful to date.
  • Lol, Have you seen the stock lately...
  • The same Ballmer that ignored and mocked the iPhone until it became a missed opportunity for MS? Ballmer had his time to fix mobile and he didn't or couldn't though I admit that he tried what he could but it was already a difficult task at that point; at least Nadella doesn't ignore emerging trends, you should give him credit for identifying major growth areas - cloud, opening up MS services to all possible and potential users on any platform. It is safe to say Nadella has practically secured and grows MSs position as the number one office productivity suite anywhere you are on any major platform. Cloud is also growing rapidly which is where the mobile first world is headed. He is doubling down on where their strengths are, covering their bases so to speak. Though it's hard to accept the WM situation, I think we must admit that Nadella's mobile strategy of embracing while working to leap ahead is the only real chance MS has at mobile today. They need to change the game and make their own rules Surface-style with mobile, it's the only way.
  • Ballmer did not mock the iPhone, that quote is an excellent example of how words can be yanked out of context. His comments were with regards to the pricing model Apple intended to apply for their phones which at the time certainly was not realistic. Apple proceeded to negociate a clever and at the time very new model with carriers and even then, the first two iPhone models were really not great nor were they ever going to be profitable. Only after Apple opened up iOS to 3rd parties and adopted the store model in a similar wasy to what Nokia was doing at that time did the phone truly take off and only after two more models did the phone actually becomes usable (iPhone 4)   The words Ballmer spoke in the context they were spoken were at the time certainly true and valid.  
  • If ballmer wasn't tone deaf he would of had the chance for mobile phone to become awesome. However he blew it more than once. I mean heck I've had a windows 6.5 device and I think it was 5 before that. Very handy almost did everything a PC could do at the time. However when Apple released the iPhone ballmer just blew it off as if nothing was gonna happen.
  • If you combine PC and xbox, MS has over half of gaming marketshare. Clearly the scorpio intend to merge those more intimately. Gaming is a HUGE industry. And AR/VR while nascent is very rapidly growing.
  • Very smart observation.
  • I'm a game programmer in a major firm. Don't think VR is meant for home entertainment. MR and AR is. VR is better in amusement park environment. (e.g. Sega's Joypolis). Arcade... and you will have hygiene problems to consider.
  • Holograms and vr is two different things. Vr no doubt prob isn't gonna be very useful in the home however holograms could end up replacing the tv if not more.
  • What's really great that Microsoft understands better than any company, is that their ecosystem is symbiotic. One MSA account can attach you to multiple services like Skype, Office, Xbox, etc. Gaming with Xbox is a great spectrum of services. I can see the direction headed with Xbox right now where investing heavily into 3rd party titles is a great move to improve social status, console adoption, and revenue. I believe that Xbox is dominating the gaming social network, because it's so heavily intergrated with software on not just the console, but website, iOS and Android apps, and even PC. I personally don't use the Xbox app as a main source of connecting to other players on my PC, as Discord handles that much easier, but I think Microsoft knows that. They've really pushed social connectivity with the Social Feed by allowing users to view their own gameplay and others. They host weekly "top player" posts which is a great way to highlight your own community. I created a fairly decent Minecraft world, and the Minecraft page shared that video. I roughly got around 3k likes and 100 shares with the video, with so many people (mainly kids) who wanted to play MC with me to help them build. This kind of social connectivity is a great service to provide users that showcase that Xbox LIVE is no longer just a matchmaking service. It's much broader than that. I'm really stoked for what the VR space has to hold. I think that it will really bring together a much more connected player space with VR actually telling users that it's not just an immersive experience, but a social one too. Facebook is doing this right now, but only for business. Xbox VR "where gamers meet and even couch co-op on a shared virtual screen." That's comparable to the PlayStation Home experience where you can customize your avatar, and walk around to talk to people. Gamers love to interact, but in a world where I'm hours, miles, states, and even countries apart, this is possibly the next revolution of game connectivity since Xbox LIVE. Can't wait for E3. I'm always excited to hear about games, but I want to see Below make a release date, and as well as Sea of Thieves and Cuphead! Xbox needs more games like The Last of Us, and platformers like Mario! Bring back, Conker!
  • If only Nadella defended the phone side of things as he is with Xbox. It isn't that hard if they just get the WinOnARM and create a decent device or two, then market it correctly. Not hard at all really.
  • That's exactly what is possible but that's probably for next year as there is no CShell yet.
  • "Isn't that hard." Except yes, it is that hard. Clearly. Xbox is a multi-billion dollar profitable business for Microsoft. Mobile has cost them probably as much.
  • Even if they sell their Xbox business, who will buy it? Sony, Steam? If they want to sell it, they won't buy Beam and Minecraft, Microsoft is in the game Industry and they will stay untill it really doesn't make sense anymore for them to hold such business, for now it integrates perfectly in their futur plan. Xbox has always been pretty successful and they make money with it now, it's moving into something bigger, VR. Now it will be interesting if Microsoft buy Steam... Investors are just morons looking for money, they don't care what is the business they invest in, they only see graphics. They manipulate the market because they have money, if you listen to investors we won't have anything interestings anymore.
  • Over at VGChartz some Sony fans a crying about how MS are lying that Xbox Live is the biggest most profitable gaming service. Claiming the monthly active userbase is some made up figure. The reality is these are official Financial numbers. And its been widely known for years for whatever reason Sony won't confirm their active monthly userbase. ( I wonder why not ). And in financial reports PSN always makes less profit than Xbox Live. You can buy 360 games, original Xbox games and Xbox One games on Xbox live. You can buy PC games on Xbox live and PC, 360 and Xbox One users all converge on Live together. Whereas with PSN every console you buy from Sony you lose your previous digitally bought games. So no wonder people don't spend money on PSN digital games. The fact is Xbox Live and its catalog of games is much more consumer friendly. And means we can all take our entire digital catalog forward with is forever like PC players do.
  • Sony fanboys are funny.
  • The sad thing is I used to be a part of VGC. And check in every now and then. The community there always take the piss out of Windows Central editors. Claiming they get dodgy information etc etc. That site has turned into a massive Sony jerk circle. With the forums full of so much unfactual information its crazy. Even when WC predictions etc come true they sweep it under the carpet into the " we didn't say a thing ". They also completely did miss Digital sales. It's gone downhill since 2012 that site.
  • 1) MS used to communicate about sales number. But started communicating on active Xbox live users when they started including win 10 + mobile users. So it went from 28m to around 50 when MS provided the "free" Win10 update.
    All these numbers are coming of MS's FY press release. 2) You must also understand whats the meaning of "active users". From the definition I got from MS, that figure includes the number of users that have logged in to Microsoft's service at least once within the last month of the quarter. When I tried out solitaire on my Win10 PC I was probably counted as a XBL active user for that quarter. 3) You can't use the word "fact" when you are making subjective statements.
  • Alot misinformation here. MS have been stating monthly active users since 2007. Way before Windows 10. They haven't made comments on console sales since 2011. Because shareholders don't care for units sold. They care for profit margins and active users purchasing stuff monthly on their service. Barely any money is made from console sales of any manufacturer. Sales of a console only fuel console wars. Fanboys fighting over a number of units. Before the Xbox one even came out their was 32 million monthly active users on just the 360 alone in 2012. So where tour getting this false information on Windows 10 making some big difference from 28 million is total and utter rubbish. Another fact certain people like to throw around is Halo 5 has sold poorly. Based on physical sales numbers. This generation MS confirmed Halo 5 had a 50% digital buy rate. Allowing for some drop off on that at let's say its gone down 10% to 40. That means Halo 5 has sold 8 million + copies. Halo isn't dying at all. More people are invested in buying from MS digitally. They have great sales like steam and as an Xbox gamer you know buying a digital game any gen means you will still be able to play that game on a newer console as opposed to a Sony machine.
  • This. ^
  • Good to see people that have done their homework!
  • Thanks guys. It just frustrates me sometimes in the internet that literally anything MS related Xbox or Windows is attacked by false info across the board by fanboys. Don't get me wrong I am a fan of MS. And enjoy their services and products. But I don't go around onto others websites spouting unfactual info to make myself feel better about products I like. That's just sad.
  • Don't be an hypocrite. You're one of the biggest fanboy & liar here. You have been caught lying so often, it's unbelievable...
  • I'm talking about this generation. Everything is in the FY press release by MS. They used to communicate a lot on the number of consoles sold and sometimes added a positive PR spin. The last time they communicated about sales was the FY15 Q2 (which covered the end of 2014).
    After that they stopped talking of sales numbers The first time they started talking about Xbox Live monthly active users was in FY 2016 Q1 which covered July-September of 2015, just when Win 10 was released. And for 3 quarters they talked about year-to-year growth.
    FY 2016 Q1 (July-September of 2015)
    Xbox Live monthly active users grew 28% to 39 million. So it went from 28m to 39m probably thanks to Win 10 users. FY 2016 Q2 (October-December of 2015)
    Xbox Live monthly active users grew 30% year-over-year to a record 48 million. FY 2016 Q3 (January-March of 2016)
    Xbox Live monthly active users grew 26% year-over-year to 46 million FY 2016 Q4 (April-June of 2016)
    Xbox Live monthly active users grew 33% year-over-year to 49 million FY 2017 Q1 (July-September of 2016)
    47 million FY 2017 Q2 (October-December of 2016)
    55 million FY 2017 Q3 (January-March of 2017)
    52 million We can clearly see the rise during the year they had the "free" windows 10 update. It went from 28m to 49m during that time. It's been around 50m ever since. Hardware numbers are important because hardware numbers and the number of games/exclusives mostly linked. Bigger installed base mostly means more games/exclusives, content...  I have NO idea why you are talking about Halo 5 here. What you wrote is irrelevant here. But I'm curious do you have actual link where MS said 50% of copies of Halo 5 sold were digital? Or are you again making something up? "They have great sales like steam and as an Xbox gamer you know buying a digital game any gen means you will still be able to play that game on a newer console as opposed to a Sony machine." You are overselling XB1 BC. It is limmited to about 20-25% of mostly arcade XB 360 games.  
  • Your falsifying numbers and reasons for increase. Firstly in 2015 the active userbase monthly was 30m. Not 28m. Your claim it was due to Windows 10 that it jumped to 39m is incorrect. It correleated exactly with Xbox One high profile launches Halo 5, Forza 6. In fact MS announced so. Also you fail to mention that the actual total gold subscriber amount in the same period was over 50 million paid subscribers. *NOTE - WINDOWS 10 USERS DO NOT PAY FOR XBOX LIVE. So you would do well to not cherrypick information. The active userbase is regular usage of Live more than 3 times throughout a month. And there were more than 50 million paying gold members in the months where 39 million active users were recorded. None of those 50 million gold subscribers were anything to do with Windows 10 PCs. As I said Windows 10 users don't pay a subscription fee. Going back to the announcement. Xbox Love makes more revenue than any other Gaming Social service. It's bigger in revenue than Steam and PSN. Officially. Just check the revenue data supplied yearly by MS, Sony and Valve.
  • Wow can you STOP MAKING STUFF UP? I'm providing actual information from MS itself. The Earnings Release FY16 Q1 are available for everyone to see: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Investor/earnings/FY-2016-Q1/press-relea... FY 2016 Q1 (July-September of 2015)
    Xbox Live monthly active users grew 28% to 39 million. So it went from 28m to 39m. What's 28% of 39? 10.92 So 39m - 10.92m is aroundf 28m. So it did go from 28 to 39. And what happened between July and September 2015? Windows 10 was released. You come and make A LOT of wild statements out of nowhere. You NEVER provided a link. Provide a link to the 50m paid gold members in July 2015.  Also, you're all over the place. I'm not talking of other service like PSN or steam. I'm talking of MS here.   
  • He winds up, he winds up, swings and knocks the VGC user RIGHT OUT THE PARK!!!!! OH I LOVE THE SMELL OF NAPALM IN THE MORNING!!!!! https://www.geekwire.com/2015/microsoft-stops-reporting-xbox-console-uni...
  • As expected, you couldn't provide a link to the 50m paid gold members in July 2015. 
  • You didn't ask for that. I provided a link to 30m. Bit you ignored it. Right so let's go back to the very beginning. MS have announced Xbox Live is the biggest profitting revenue gaming network in the world. It currently has at last count 55 million active users / month. So what evidence are YOU going to bring here to PROVE MS are lying. YOU are saying MS are BS shareholders and the world. So YOU bring proof that they aren't the biggest in the world.
  • "You didn't ask for that. I provided a link to 30m." And the lies continue. Lokk what I posted 2 post back "Provide a link to the 50m paid gold members in July 2015." It can't be more clear than that. It's clear that you made that stuff up so now you are going to put words in my mouth saying that I'm saying MS are lying. When have I said they are lying? Read back the comments instead of continuously lying about stuff...
  • You are as bad as all the other VGC users. The amount of times in the past you tried to accuse me of lying to ask for proof, then I provide a link and you never ever answer back because you have been proved wrong is ridiculous. Literally on like 10 articles you've gone tails away. And then come back like here acting like you know nothing about my replies and claim I'm making stuff up. Yes your the one who accused MS that these numbers are plucked from thin air. It's in your first comment. Your claiming with NO basis that its somehow down to Windows 10 people just logging on. We'll ill follow this post with proof that there are 50million. We'll to be honest its 49 but I rounded up. So sue me. But yes as usual you will provide not a single shred of proof as to your claims MS live numbers are due to random logins on Windows 10. And further no proof as to these numbers not be straight honest Live numbers. We are all still waiting.
  • https://www.engadget.com/2015/10/22/xbox-live-monthly-active-q1/
  • HA HA HA! Did you even read what I posted earlier? The proof is RIGHT THERE. This is the link to Mircrosoft site: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Investor/earnings/FY-2016-Q1/press-relea... I hope you know that MS allowed free update to Win 10 from Win7 or Win8 between July 2015 to July 2016 During that time the "fxbox live active user" rose from around 28-30m to around 50m
    FY 2016 Q1 (July-September of 2015)
    Xbox Live monthly active users grew 28% to 39 million.  FY 2016 Q2 (October-December of 2015)
    Xbox Live monthly active users grew 30% year-over-year to a record 48 million. FY 2016 Q3 (January-March of 2016)
    Xbox Live monthly active users grew 26% year-over-year to 46 million FY 2016 Q4 (April-June of 2016)
    Xbox Live monthly active users grew 33% year-over-year to 49 million
    After that it kinda of stablilized around 50m
    FY 2017 Q1 (July-September of 2016)
    47 million FY 2017 Q2 (October-December of 2016)
    55 million FY 2017 Q3 (January-March of 2017)
    52 million
    All these numbers are from MS's site. And YES, these number include people connecting from Win 10.   Now YOU said:
    "the actual total gold subscriber amount in the same period was over 50 million paid subscribers"
    Post the link to THAT. And just to be clear "Active Xbox live user" is NOT the same as gold  paid subscribers. It's really funny and ironic that you say I run away and don't provide proof when YOU are the one doing that all the time. LOL You're such a liar it's becoming funny now. And unlike you, I'll actually prove it by posting the last time you did it: http://www.windowscentral.com/thimbleweed-park-now-available-windows-10-... You said "The Witcher 3 sold more than 7 million more than PC version" But you ran away when I posted proof that you were lying. You even lied few post back when you said "You didn't ask for that." and that is LITERALLY the only thing I asked you in the previous post. So, what is it going to be? 1) Are you going to make another post of while baseless accusations? 2) Are you FINALLY going to post the link that says there were 50m paid gold members in July 2015? Or are you going to post the link showing there are more than 7m people who bought Witcher 3 on console vs PC? 3) Or are you going to run away as usual? 
  • You know why they don't post sales numbers of xboxs cause investors would hate it, it's about as clear as it can get, yet both of y'all start a fued on the internet. It's not rocket science and it's not screwing investors either. If you don't like it and your a investors or potential one go else where. You know that saying (you have choice in a free market you like to spew we'll take it and be with it).
  • YOU HAVE PROVIDED NOT A SINGLE SHRED OF PROOF???!!!!! ARE YOU A BOT OR SOMETHING!!! You are still claiming assumptions of your own. Putting your own thoughts into some figures you have no clue about. Claiming MS don't tell us how they get there numbers. It's now 2017. Right??! I'll make this very easy. Even for a Sony VGC user like yourself. Last count 55 million active monthly users at the last report. Over 70 million subscribers. Those numbers are on their last quaterly revenue earnings. Now the Monthly users are across Windows 10, Xbox One. I would say phone but that's all but non existent anymore as everyone already knows. Now 3 years after your claimed Windows 10 jump. What is your new explanation of this new record of Active users? I and everyone else know there's not a single shred of evidence to support your claim that MS fluff these numbers up. Let's be honest whilst everyone is laughing at you ( It is funny how your trying to desperately protect your PSN ) MS are making MORE REVENUE than PSN. That you can Officially are from Sonys own Financial reports. So if people are just playing Solitaire on the Windows 10 PC as you say then that makes no revenue. Then explain how such a small number don't spend a dime on Live but yet MS wipe the floor with Steam PSN and Nintendo with revenue and profit??? PROOF now please. I'll say again. Posting the same numbers followed by your complete and utter unsubstantiated claims are not PROOF. Mate I tell you Sony fans from VGC are the worst.
  • LOL so it was option 1. More BS coming from you. And YET AGAIN MORE BS lies. And as expected ZERO links, just bs statements... 1st let's clear the fist lie when you say:
    "Last count 55 million active monthly users at the last report."
    The last count was 52m.
    https://mspoweruser.com/microsoft-reports-52-million-active-xbox-live-us... The "70 million subscribers" is something you invented as it's not in the report. If you have prove POST IT, or else it'll just mean that you're lyong ONCE AGAIN. When you say "your claim that MS fluff these numbers up". Just where the f*ck did I say they fluffed the numbers? After making up stuff, you're putting words in my mouth. QUOTE ME and show where I said that. Also when you say this "It is funny how your trying to desperately protect your PSN", you are lying again. QUOTE ME and show where I protected PSN. Here is a link for you. Please educate yourself:
    "Spencer said Monthly Active Users (MAU) are a bigger indicator of performance."
    "The number of people in the last 30 days that have engaged with an Xbox Live game on either Windows or Xbox 360 or Xbox One"
    https://www.vg247.com/2016/03/01/spencer-monthly-active-users-determines... "MS are making MORE REVENUE than PSN." 
    Looks like you're celebrating that. I can understand an investor celebrating but a gamer? Oh wait, you aren't one. You're just a MS fanboy or cheerleader. LOL "PROOF now please."
    Like I said earlier we have no idea how it was calculated and the details of the statement. 
    It can be anything. I NEVER said they lied, that's you thinking I said it.
    But if you want my guess here it is:
    Most of MS's games are games as a service. They focus A LOT more than Sony and Nintendo on these type of games. Games where you pay full price for it + pay more in the form of microtransactions, DLC, premium bundles to play the game early, season pass... Also gold is mostly the most expensive service between other services available out there. Req packs, Gear packs, Forza tokens or whatever else. 
    There that's my opinion. "Also the article from Eurogamer I linked said if you bothered to read it 39m active users. Then it says 49 million live subscribers."
    You posted an engadget link where it says: "total amount of people on Xbox Live".
    CAN'T YOU READ!!
    THESE ARE NOT GOLD SUBSCRIBERS, but TOTAL AMOUNT OF PEOPLE ON XBOX LIVE. Gee! smh... If you have OFFICIAL number of paid gold subscribers please post here as I don't see MS communicating on this anymore. Now if you have PROPER PROOF, post them and stop wasting my time with your lies and bs... PS: Will you post the link that shows that The Witcher 3 sold 7 million more console or are you going to keep ducking that lie. LOL It's not too late to admit that you were wrong or lied there.
  • As usual. You don't read a single link provided for you. What's the point providing links to someone who can't read. Someone like you so fixed on a company like Sony isn't worth the air. Your embarrassing yourself and Sony fans. It might work on VGC with your Sony crew, but not elsewhere. Someone could show you the colour blue and you would call it red. You still refuse to provide any factual information to your claims Xbox live isn't biggest and making more revenue. I have provided 4 different links to answer your questions. And dismiss everything. So there is no point returning this thread. Xbox Live is bigger and better than PSN. Making alot more money. And has a higher Active userbase. Nothing you have said or link provided has changed that.
  • HA HA HA I know that you were only trolling. It's clear that I exposed you for the MANY lies that you come up with, but you'll still go in circles with the same bs and as usual ZERO evidence or proof and more accusation. You're putting words in my mouth but you can't even quote me. The difference between the 2 of us is 
    1) I QUOTE WHAT YOU SAY, (you only say I said this or that even though I never sais it)
    2) I PROVIDE LINKS tor prove myself. (You posted 2 links (not 4 another lie LOL) that had nothing to do with what you were claiming as you don't even know to read or understand what's in the links)
    3) I EXPOSED YOUR LIES. (You have been exposed at least 10 TIMES in this very comment section LOL) I know you may think you're trollin me of with your trolling and lies, but you know what I actually like exposing liars and company fanboys. This is a MS site, so I understand many people here are fan of the company. They will own, support or defend MS products from Surface to the latest version of windows to xbox to Windows phone lumina or whatever that phone is called. Me? I'm just a gamer here looking got news on games from MS. Unlike you my priority isn't a company but it's gaming. ofc exposing liars is also something I do. It's understandable that many people on this site will support your posts because you are defending MS. ofc it doesn't matter if you're continuously lying, as long as you support that MS, you're cool to them... LOL Anyway I won't waste more time with you unless you actually post non existant proof to all your lies. LOL
    As a gamer, I got better things to do. Keep playing the fanboy and defend a company, I'm off...
  • Also the article from Eurogamer I linked said if you bothered to read it 39m active users. Then it says 49 million live subscribers. Or did you think everyone who pays for it yearly plays every month? Loads of casuals pay yearly but probably don't get on it every month. I have casual friends who just occasionally use their box. Not everyone is a hardcore gamer.
  • I try to buy all my games digitally now, so much better and I use the store for movie rentals and purchases all the time.
    I love the ability to play anywhere, watch anywhere simply by logging into my account.
    Doesn't matter where I might be, I can just log on from anywhere, watch or play without carrying the discs.
    Simply awesome.
  • I think a big part of why Xbox most certainly has a bigger active online community is because the majority of Xbox sales are in North America, followed by Europe and Australia then the rest of the world making up a relatively tiny portion of the Xbox community. Fact is, these are pretty much the most prosperous regions of the world (considering both population and GDP), where subscription services, broadband internet etc. are common place things which the average household can afford. Contrast with PS on the other hand which has a customer base much more widely spread worldwide that might account for more console sales, but in many countries, things like annual subscriptions, cheap accessible broadband internet and such are not as common or affordable, so it naturally translates to smaller online engagement in those parts. Also factor in the foundation of core Xbox titles was built to be network community based unlike the more traditional solo or local co-op gaming of the typical Nintendo and pre-PS3 (and majority of PS4 exclusive) titles and it is easy to see why Xbox live is bigger and more profitable - the core audience and games (as well as more mature online infrastructure to a lesser degree) is more gaming service oriented on Xbox.
  • You're saying this, BUT the PS4 is outselling the XB1 in the US and all other developed countries. In Europe the PS4 is totally dominating the XB1. The statement about it being more monetized is something to the investors. We have no idea how this was calculated and the details of the statement...  
  • Selling more units does NOT mean the PSN service is larger or makes more money. People won't invest in PSN digital sales of games if they are unsure too can take tour games to the next Playstation. Ps3 digital bought games won't work on PS4.
  • lol when did I say it did?  And when will you stop selling XB1's BC feature? People buy new gen consoles to play new gen games. Playing old mostly arcade game is a nice feature but many of you bought XB1 prior to June 2015 bought it even though it didn't have BC. It looks like that feature became crucial after E3 2015... LOL
  • Your bringing up sales of the console. Which has nothing to do with Xbox live being vastly superior, bigger and making more revenue than PSN. I talk about Backward compatibility because its MASSIVE. Why? Because no one on their right mind is going to spend revenue money on the PSN digital store if they can't take that digital game with them on the next console. Sonya track record so far with playing bought digital games from PS3 on your PS4 is terrible. Anti consumer. So yes this directly affects the revenue made by PSN and XBox Live. In the words of Maui from Moanna. " well what can I say except your welcome, for taking the clouds away from your eyes. Yes what can I say except your welcome!!!! Wait please revert to your online Sony lies!!! Your welcome, sour welcome " sung to the tune of Disney's Moanna.
  • I think he's talking about forwards comp? As for now, there's no doubt that Scorpio (and even Scorpio 2) can run 360 and xb1, and it encourages people to buy games from XboxStore. * Backwards / forwards comp
    I value my collections and prefer to have'em in one bucket * Active-free-unlimited-cloud-sync
    if you value your data, this is important * XPA
    I carry New Xbox Wireless Controller and Surface Pro 4 (sometimes Alienware) with me all the time * Instant-On
    On Xbox: power on -> press A -> back to exactly where you left your game session 3 days ago.
    On PC: many minutes and might not be where you left it days ago. * Hot swap regions
    I'm now living in Japan, self explanatory. * No billions of hardware, software, driver, user-installed-background-service combinations. Simpler OS in comparison. Both HW/OS are supported by 1st party. Easier for consumers, easier for devs, easier for platform provider. * No need to fumble around graphic settings before gaming. * No, I'm not leaving my "personal" computer in the public space (e.g. living room). Reasons I gave up (buying movie from) Google's PlayStore, gave up on Steam and PS store.
  • Therefore, the statement made by the Xbox team is untrue??? Console sales do not equal active online subscribers. My point about the core audience was to emphasize that Xbox owners are typically more aligned with an active online subscription model, given the origins and history of the console and service; I pointed out that they are also almost exclusively focused in developed countries to highlight why this may be so or why it is logical. The audience of the PS is historically much more geographically diverse, with core focus on solo and local co-op than on online community play. As a result, there is greater likelihood that an Xbox customer is more willing to be a participant in a subscription based online community because Xbox and Xbox live are practically synonymous. After all, you would ordinarily expect that console numbers = active online subscribers, but for the Xbox team to make this claim and also reveal actual numbers, it is reasonable to assume they have done their research. The only alternative is to claim the statement is untrue.
  • No, I didn't say that. I'm trying to counter your point of geographical location of it's users. We don't know exactly how they came up with this statement. There can be many reasons. XBL being overall more expensive than PS+. Besides PS+ and Gold you don't need to pay monthly subscription. Also XB1's main games have been a lot more focused on stuff like Microtransaction and DLC. Req packs, Gear packs, Forza tokens or whatever else. They even manage to add microtransaction in a old re-release Phantom Dust version. This is great news for investors and fans of MS, but I as a gamer wouldn't celebrate about a service making more money. For me it's not great news and reason to celebrate... 
  • it's great news if you want games and game services to continue to be viable and attract investment so you can keep having a top notch gaming experience.  if you don't like those things then you won't care about Live continuing to be great and profitable. i think ps+ isn't actually more expensive.  they are both $60 a year now.  
  • The problem though is they are selling games as a service. XB1's main games have been a lot more focused on stuff like Microtransaction and DLC. Req packs, Gear packs, Forza tokens or whatever else.  Should focus of a game be on microtransaction and work on how much more money you spend after paying 60-90 bucks? If this strategy works than I'm sorry, I don't think this is great for gaming as more and more companies will focus on this FEE-TO-PAY games. (for more info on that type "fee to pay Jimquisition" on google) In Europe, PS+ is cheaper so overall it is cheaper.  
  • Here they are speaking to investors. They are trying to sell "XBox brand" and try to make it profitable for them.  The worrying thing for me is that Spencer talked of Halo, Minecraft and Forza when it came to first party games. We know the annual Forza. We know they constantly provide Halo stuff and now looks like they will be trying to push Minecraft on AR as a new "big thing".
    ofc I'll wait for E3 in the hope that there is a LOT more first party games but for me it doesn't look good as far as re-investing whatever profit they make back into first party game development. When they say stuff like "provides a foundation to further business models like subscriptions" and when Spencer talks of game as a service. It just doesn't sound good to me. I really don't like the direction they are taking. This is probably to tell investors "don't worry there will be a constant flow of cash in" but it also probably means they are looking at more and more ways to squeeze out money out of gamers without necessarily making major investments in game development.
    I think these service-driven games are bad news for gaming and gamers as a whole. Also looks like they are pushing AR, which is ok. They have spent a lot on getting Minecraft, I think they need to show investors that they are going to use it soon. 
    I'll be looking at it from a distance (like I did with VR).  Again, they were talking to investors so there was a lot of marketing, and PR talk. I (as a gamer, and not as an investor or a "company fan") will be waiting for E3 to get the whole picture.
  • MS have quite clearly been pulling back from funding outside games. Remedy seem to have a free reign to make multiplatform games now. Cleary due to MS no longer funding their projects. It would seem MS are putting money into their own studios. Maybe even some new studios. We also already know 343 are not showing anything at all related to Halo 6 this E3. Also Mixed reality headsets can do both VR and AR. So its not just AR. The difference being though the headsets aren't stunted to a single room set up. Minecraft is paying for itself. They could do nothing with it and it would be profitable. So shareholders aren't worried about that in the slightest. Game service is the future. Some may not like it. Even Sony realise this with the services they are trying to set up. But unfortunately it would seem Sony are way behind on this. Like MS were with Windows Phone. It's going to be interesting through 2018. Because in terms of business Sony Imo really need to revamp their entire backward compatibility policies. As well as there services. Why would any PS4 owner purchase digitally when there's a highly likely chance they can't play that game on Sonys next machine?????
  • Your commentary here has been helpful and informative in keeping this comment thread from descending into the fanboy rants that are increasingly common on Windows Central. Thanks for that. The presentation Microsoft made to financial analysts was about the numbers and the wisdom of the gaming investment. I wasn't there so I don't know if this point was mentioned, but it is also important: Xbox gives Microsoft its aguably best consumer facing product. Some analysts believe Microsoft needs to focus strictly on enterprise, but that is the typical flaw in analyst thinkging: quarterly and yearly numbers growth. Microsoft leadership thankfully focuses longer term knowing that consumer products like Xbox (consumer Windows, and now Surface) are the ways you grow new customers in other segments like enterprise. That is also why the education initiaitive (Windows 10 S and the Surface Laptop) is important, and why the mixed reality effort is important even if it never becomes a really big thing. A company that focuses strictly on enterprise winds up like IBM, a company no one thinks of any more as an innovator and an also ran in the enterprise.  Dell has become a large enterprise company but retains its consumer facing origins. HP split it self in two (enterprise and consumer)  but both halves have HP in the name. Consumer facing products will always be part of what Microsoft does as a way to develop fans and loyalists in one market that can help when it comes to decisions on which tech to employ in the other. 
  • Single player: Enter the Gungeon, Ori, Fru, Middle Earth, The Surge and many more.
    But I only play'em once (or half way) and after that? Halo, Gears or Forza Horizon (the Hot Wheels expansion is great fun!) or some 360 games that I've never played.
  • it doesn't sound like they have to try and make it profitable for them.  It is already profitable and growing.
  • "But unfortunately it would seem Sony are way behind on this." I would say fortunately Sony isn't thinking of games as a service. They are not thinking of how much can a full price $60 game bring in more money, or at least that's not their main strategy as of now. A gae should not be design with DLC, microtransactions, fee to pay.. in mind.  I hope renting service is not the norm. I want to buy and own the game. You are talking about playing old games again, well with renting service you may not be able to. I always said that even though it's a small percentage of mostly arcade games, MS has one up on Sony when it came to BC. Having said that most of you guys bought the XB1 knowing fully well that it wasn't BC. You didn't mind it then, but it seems that playing old arcade games almost became the most thing for a console. I mean, I have my Xbox 360, and PS3. I can easily play my old games and recently bought few PS3 games. Yes, I can't play them on my PS4 but it's not such a big deal. The feature would be nice, but I rather have huge amount of new content for PS4 and needing to connect my PS3 to play the odd old game, than having just one system that lacks in exclusive new content  but allows us to play old mostly arcade games. About Minecraft, it does make money but it is far from covering up the initial investment. They bought it for a reason and its probably because they had AR in mind. About investment in first party studios, ofc I would love that to be true. I guess we'll see in one month at E3. I hope it's true, but I doubt it, MS has disappointed me so often in the last few E3s...
  • How about PS5 won't run any PS4 games VS Scorpio (even Scorpio2) will run any 360 and xb1 games? Why would I invest into PS4 games knowing PS5 won't run them? (As for now. But, I've already gave up PlayStore for movies, gave up PSStore and Steam for games. I would gave up PlayStore for music because MS has Groove integrated into XB1 games, but I kept it. Because my wedding day song list's on their server and my wife's sharing my subscription) I know for a fact that Middle Earth Shadow of Wars runs on XB1, Scorpio and PC with free-active-unlimited-cloud-sync enabled. And that's the version I'll buy.
  • BC is a just a FEATURE. When did you buy your XB1? Why are most of XB fans suddenly making BC the crucial feature after E3 2015?   I bought Master system games to play it on master system. I bought Xbox 360 to play on my 360. and so on. I'm not buying my PS4 games to play on the future PS5. You guys are making it sound like these games are totally useless once the new gen comes. All it means is that IF I want to play an older game I JUST need to connect my old console and play them. That's it. Getting up and connecting few cables may be a HUGE deal since E32015 for some people, but that is not a big deal from the 90s to now.
  • I think your missing the point. It wasn't a big deal in the 90s because Digital content didn't exist. People including myself are talking about purchasing digital content from PSN or Xbox Live. It's important that we look at the companies track record for BC and forward compatibility to. The point is buying digital on Xbox Live you get a confidence that the £40 you spend on your game is forever. Because you can still play that game on future consoles. You claim the majority of BC games are arcade games on Xbox. How wrong you are. In fact its like you haven't even been on there. There's hundreds of full proper Xbox 360 titles. Including Lost Odyssey, Mass Effect trilogy, Halo Wars, Forza, Black Ops 2, Alan Wake, and many many more. Difference is anyone who bought Digital titles on PS3 can't play on PS4. And then what about PS5? Do we really have to keep 5 different consoles under our telly to play digital games we buy on PSN??? What if our old hardware dies??? It's anti consumer. And its just not practical in most households. No wonder less people buy off the PSN store. And in turn PSN makes less Revenue than Live.
  • " You claim the majority of BC games are arcade games on Xbox. How wrong you are. " LOL ANOTHER LIE Richard Liar!!! 239 arcade games out of 378. https://majornelson.com/blog/xbox-one-backward-compatibility/
  • I can stream Xbox one games live to my L650 or SP4, plug my Turtle Beach headphones into the Xbox one controller and play a game anywhere in my house! That's mobile! the next step is to access this outside of the local network.
  • I could do that with my Wii U and Vita years ago, but I'm glad XB join the party...
  • Play anywhere is even better. And something no one else does. You can play a game natively NOT streamed anywhere in the world via a Laptop, PC, Surface Pro Tablet or Xbox all with 1 price. No lag, no bottlenecks.
  • "something no one else does"  Welcome to 2012!!! :) Cross-buy 
    Sony introduced 'cross-buy' in 2012, whereby a game available for multiple PlayStation devices needs only to be purchased once. Players who download the PlayStation 3 version of a game can also transfer to the PlayStation Vita or PlayStation 4 version, at no extra cost, and vice versa. Users have immediate access to supported titles in their digital game library, even when they upgrade to the newest system
  • Oh fantastic. So all my games I bought on my PS3 digitally I can get completely free of charge for a PS4 if I bought one tomorrow? I had no idea. If I buy PS4 games can I get a free PC version????
  • Why? because ALL Xbox 360 I bought  digitally I can play free of charge on a XB1 I buy tomorrow (or on my Win10)? If I buy Xbox games I can play them on my vita or wii U?  Cross-buy and Play anywhere is kinda of the same. Purchase once to play on Sony devices for cross-play, or purchase once to play on MS's XB1 or MS's Win10 for play anywhere.   It's funny how you move the goalpost. But anyway, welcome to 2012.. :)
  • Not long ago Nadella had more or less the same words for Windows Mobile hardware. In the end the investors will always get the last say at MSFT and if they want Xbox gone it will be sold of, regardless how much the company may want to keep it or even sees its value. Nadella is not the person to stand u against investors, he will just bend over just like he did for mobile once the investors got Ballmer out of the way.