Some people may not know, but I have been writing on Windows Phone here since 2007 back when it was just called Windows Mobile (and the site was just WMExperts). Funny how things come around again, and I'm not just talking about names.
There is little doubt that over the last few months, fans of Microsoft's mobile OS have had some trials to face and indeed, I expect we're at the lowest point right now. The tone today from many is dire. No one is happy with the Cityman and Talkman leaks, Windows 10 Mobile still feels rough and incomplete, and Microsoft looks to be miles from the competition. Throw in things like certain Lumia apps being retired and the relative success yesterday of Apple's big press event and it is hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel. In fact, at times, there is barely a glimmer of light.
Yes, Microsoft has brought a lot of this on themselves.
Having said all of that, I do find it a bit disheartening to see so many not only turn on Microsoft but each other and this community. I do get it too, and I am certainly not here to say "It'll all be okay, just you wait!" because even I am tired of repeating that. However, there a few things to consider that I would like to discuss.

Incomplete picture
Although many of us are using Windows 10 Mobile as part of the Insider program, in some ways, this is creating more perception problems rather than fixing them.
In the past, when Microsoft was releasing a new OS we had to rely on well-placed sources to verify easily-faked screenshots and we only saw the OS through static images. Today, we are doing something unprecedented: seeing how an OS is made. As it turns out, it is not very pretty if you are just a consumer and not an engineer or software developer. Since we do not know what the final product is supposed to be like, we only see what is in front of us and being developed. This scenario is normal for those who make the OS, but strange to those used to a complete and finished system.
On the one hand, I think the Insider program is great. It lets us see how the OS is being developed, we can influence some aspects of it, and Microsoft can (hopefully) build a better OS in the long run.
Then again, since we do not know what Microsoft's criteria is for success, and you cannot help but wonder if they will ever have a stable platform. Windows 10 Mobile being the third OS reboot in so many years certainly does not help the situation.
How we got here
Windows Mobile 6.x based off of Windows CE was great except for the fact that it was built on a legacy core. This core crippled Microsoft who could not do much with it going forward. Faced with the iPhone and Android, Microsoft had to hit the reset button. Ideally, Microsoft would have gone to the Windows NT core, but development would have taken much longer than bootstrapping a new OS onto CE. So Windows Phone 7 was pushed out but it still faced the same limitations of Mobile 6.5.
Windows Phone 8 happened because Microsoft needed to get the NT kernel into the OS. However, doing so is like replacing the foundation of a building. It is rather hard to change out the base when the structure is already in place. But the promise of NT is too alluring. With it, Microsoft could add more APIs, extend feature sets and set the groundwork for their 'three screens and a cloud' strategy of a unified OS.
Windows 10 Mobile is yet another reboot because now that the foundation is the same as Windows desktop, the outside structure needs to match too. You cannot have a unified OS if the UI is completely different from the desktop one, so here we are again seeing another OS being rebuilt.
I mentioned all of this more depth in an older article aptly called 'This is why Microsoft keeps 'starting over' with Windows Phone'. I encourage you read it for more background on this complicated topic.
Keep in mind, I am not justifying Microsoft's history here so much as just explaining why they did what they did.

The real criticism for the mess we are in goes back to Steve Ballmer, who did not prioritize mobile back in 2006 when they should have. Combined with weird tangents like Courier, Kin, Zune and Windows RT and Microsoft is, in my opinion, finally on the right track with Windows 10. The problem now is they are clearly behind Apple and Google in terms of OS and smartphone maturity. It is what it is.
When Windows 10 Mobile does finally hit the market, it will be once again seen as New instead of a continuation. Part of this is very accurate, but obviously there is a lot more going on. How to rectify perception though with reality is not an easy solution.
Is it that bad?
So here we are going into late 2015. There has been no flagship Windows Phones in nearly 18 months, the OS is being rebooted, and Samsung and Apple are hitting their stride. So far, the leaks for Cityman and Talkman have failed to inspire people too.
For the record, I am not sure Cityman and Talkman are the flagship phones we deserve. I hear from sources who have seen and used them that they are phones you need to see and hold to appreciate really. I am willing to believe that but let's be honest, that is a tough way to sell a phone on TV. Conversely, you have the Galaxy S6 Edge. That phone looks phenomenal in ads, but in real life it is less than fantastic (awkward to hold and the 'edge' is gimmicky at best). But it looks awesome. Cityman and Talkman? They look a ho-hum solid.

The problem for Microsoft is everything is down the road. The promise of Universal apps? Coming soon. The promise of ported apps through Bridges from Android, iOS, Win32 and web apps? On the way. New exciting Windows Phone hardware? Just around the corner! A stable and mature OS that can compete with Android and iOS and even surpass them? It's almost here!
However, as mentioned above I still see Windows 10 as being just damn awesome – even if on paper. The desktop OS is doing very well so far with mass adoption and – let's face it – very little blowback in acceptance. Xbox One is still gaining and adding Windows 10 to it should be exciting. The Surface Pro is doing so well Apple is now copying it. HoloLens is still some crazy technology that is hard to believe exists. Now add Continuum and yeah, there is still some spark left in Windows Mobile.
So things are bad. We are in the pits right now at the lowest point, but what else is there to do? If you want Android or iOS, go ahead. If Windows Phone becomes great, just come back. Switching phones has never been easier especially since apps and services are abundant and even more convenient with 'the cloud'.
You don't criticize enough
Another thing we hear a lot here at Windows Central is we as staff are not critical enough. Admittedly, we are not sour on Microsoft for a few reasons, including:
- My personality – I'm more of a 'the glass is half full' then empty kind of person
- Critical Mass – If you want people slamming Microsoft you do not have to venture too far on the internet to find it, even amongst friendly sites and those sympathetic.
- We're brand champions – I think it would be odd as the top Windows site in the world (raw traffic, forums, and our quality) not to believe in the products we cover
The issue here is when I don't agree with criticisms or defend a company it must because we are getting paid by them. I have gone on record in the past and will so again: we do not take money from companies. If we did, you would see 'sponsored post' everywhere to let you know that someone besides us was footing the bill. In those rare cases, we still maintain editorial control over the content. Case in point: Hidden Gems as we chose and approved of all of those apps. Even our ads are handled by an outside company called Purch. We don't know who is advertising with us and do not handpick our sponsors.

When it comes to laptops from Lenovo, HP, or Dell, we have never even been given a review unit, let alone been paid to write anything. Yeah, I'm not proud that Dell does not send us laptops, or Lenovo cannot be bothered to let us borrow a tablet. But it is what it is. (By the way, feel free to hound them on social media to get their attention if you want us to review hardware; otherwise, we pay for it out of pocket, which gets pricey fast).
Be happy
Although we all love our jobs here at Windows Central and are privileged to do what we do, it is a hard job at times. We try to give you the best reviews, the best in-depth coverage, and the most reliable insider information we can. Because of that, it's rather tough to see all of you bickering and fighting all the time in comments. It gets even worse when you turn on us because we just don't agree with your point of view, and we get accused of being sellouts.
Let's all step back, take a deep breath, and wait to see what happens over the next few months. We already see momentum with universal Windows apps for Windows 10, some movement with OEMs for new phones, and I even bet Cityman and Talkman are not nearly as terrible as you may think. At the very least, let us wait for Microsoft to tell their story and then judge. Fair?
Finally, remember, these are just phones, folks. There is a lot more to Microsoft and the Windows world, and there has never been a more exciting time for mobile technology than today. Cool gizmos constantly surround us, and it can only get better. Right?
So cheer up. You're part of something bigger and more exciting.
Reader comments
From the Editor's Desk: Is the Windows Phone community imploding?
I for one do feel somewhat abandoned & neglected by the level of importance meeted out against the windows phone community. The pain is more intensified when I see Microsoft giving first preference to other platforms ( Yes I get it, it's a business decision !). How can we evangilize on Microsft's behalf when we aren't afforded parity of our own apps & also seeing our prised app (CORTANA) transcending to other platforms.
@ Windows Central & Daniel by extension, continue doing your jobs as this site is very informative. I'd be most dissapointed if you provided us with anything less. Please to remember you can't please all the people, all the time.
Pages
My 1020 froze yesterday. Would not power off, not buttons worked, nothing. I was thinking now what to get? Hell all my Microsoft services are available on any phone. Started to look at Galaxies and iPhones. The 1020 finally ran out of battery which rebooted it and all is fine now but.....
I wonder if a soft reset would have worked (if you didn't already try). Holding volume up + volume down + power for around 10-15 seconds.
Yes, it works. Time ago it happend the same thing to my Lumia 920 and I tried a soft reset and worked as charm, so keep it in mind @NIST the next time it happen to you. Thanks @SolunaKitty , however I just used Volume Down + Power.
No buttons worked at all on the phone.
1.Press and hold the Volume down Volume down button and Power Power button buttons at the same time until you feel a vibration (about 10–15 seconds).
2.When you feel the vibration, immediately press and hold the Volume down button until you see a large exclamation mark.
3.Once the exclamation mark appears, press the following four buttons in this order: Volume up Volume up button, Volume down , Power , Volume down . Your phone should now reset and restart itself. (It might take a while for the reset to finish.)
Also, if your phone acting weird do a back up then do the above and do clean OS installation. When the installation completed do a hard reset again but this time from the phone setting and install the back up.
You'd hate me and thank me later
Yeah had that on my L920 and L1520 too. Most of the time the reset works others not - shit OS. I have been on WP since the first phones launch and frankly tired of beeing screwed over and over and over and over again!!! Are the people at MS really that stupid or are they just have a bet on who can make the most idiotic decisions!
My L1520 is falling a part and as much as I think City- Talkman are ugly shit looking phones.... being the stupid sheep I am, I am going to get one....
Sorry for the rant Daniel. Keep up the good work you guys do!
I taught high school for 11 years. One thing I learned is that students always call anything they don't understand stupid. Why? Because they don't take the time to ask questions and get the facts. I feel this is the same thing some people on this site are doing--calling Microsoft's decisions stupid when they don't have a clue why the decisions are made. I'm assuming none of us attended any of the high level meetings at Microsoft when Windows Phone/Mobile was discussed. And really, do you think those people sat around in the meetings and said, "Hey, let's see what we can do to create the worst experience possible for our users?" Microsoft can't afford to fail in mobile, so I feel pretty confident they will get it right in the end. I'm just enjoying the ride. I think Microsoft has done what they've done to try to succeed in mobile. Yes, they've had to reboot a few times. But it was necessary in order try to become relevant. And I think they finally got it right. I don't know if Windows 10 Mobile will catch on. But I think it should. It's an amazing concept--the same OS on every device, universal apps, etc.
I, for one, (pats self on back) have not been critical of Microsoft. I have thoroughly enjoyed using Windows Phone. It's been a nice change from iOS and Android. And I've appreciated the way Microsoft has changed--where they now listen to user input. And if they haven't instituted every change that has been recommended, there's probably a good reason--either technical or time involved.
Sure, there are other options. But let's put it into perspective. Do you really want to become an Apple user? I've seen what that does to people. It somehow makes them feel superior...and act that way towards anyone else that doesn't have an iPhone/MacBook/iPad. For example, the Surface is an amazing product. Even the Microsoft-hating tech press has been forced to recognize it. But I've seen Apple fans turn their noses up at it because it didn't have an Apple logo on it. Now they have a Surface look-a-like they will claim is much better than a Surface. Or worse yet they will claim Microsoft somehow copied the iPad Pro when they made the Surface. And Android? If you haven't seen lag on your phone, just give it some time. If you install a number of apps it's inevitable. And do you really want Google monetizing your data? I, for one, got sick of Google stretching its tentacles into every aspect of my life. I'll never go back there, I don't care how many apps are available on Android. At least with Microsoft I can choose to keep my data private.
I'm using my Lumia 1520 and enjoying it every day. If Microsoft somehow improves it with firmware or software, well, that's a bonus. They don't owe me anything. They aren't required to take my advice on features, and they certainly don't have to make a phone that meets my standards for a flagship device. And if I decide somebody else is making a device that will give me a better experience I'm free to leave at any time. So please, stop whining about Microsoft and calling them stupid. Do some research. Ask questions. Make suggestions. Be patient. Otherwise, just buy an iPhone and stop making yourself miserable. LIfe's too short for that.
Finally someone else with my same frame of mind! I've been enjoying every new revision of Windows Phone that has come out, me still being on my first and only windows phone to date - Lumia 920. I've had it for 3 years and it has been a champion. I've seen looots of other phones from android and apple that never lasted this long - android because of software, and iphones because if they are dropped once the screen is just toast. I've dropped my 920 lots (never extremely far though, thankfully) and it has held up well. I'm personally finding it really interesting running preview software on my phone, and i've sent in my fair share of tips and opinions to Microsoft, and who knows if they are listening to it at all. But who cares? We are getting a glimpse of how an OS is made, and that is really cool. I always do try to show my android and iphone friends why Windows Phone is worth a look, especially my wife, cause it would be nice to both be on the same OS, but if people aren't swayed, no big deal. People can choose what they like, no one is forcing anyone to stay on board, but I for one LOVE the idea of what Microsoft is planning for in the near future. I'm enjoying the ride, and I don't think theres a need to get bent out of shape. Maybe that's my opinion because I'm not one that needs a new flagship every year. I buy my phone based on it lasting for a long time, that's why i bought the best phone Microsoft offered at the time of my 920 purchase.
I think this article has the most comments I've seen of all WC articles.
WM = Poo
I was listening to a speech some day and the speaker said "A smart phone is only as smart as the user".That said, I am never explaining to anyone else why I'll keep on choosing Windows Phone.
This would also perfectly explain the iphone's popularity. Lol.
I think it's volume - (down) and power at the same time for soft reset.
The exact same thing happens to Android and iOS users.
Missing his point!
That's what I'm thinking, lol!
What exactly is the point? That an older phone should never have problems? I've got news for you, the older galaxy phones i've used in the past have been just as buggy. The grass is not always greener.
His point was that when put into a position thinking he might need to get a new phone, there was nothing keeping him in the Windows ecosystem. Not that the same thing doesn't happen to other phones - that was irrelevant.
shoot my galaxy tab just got lollipop a bit ago, while they have discontued my tab s pro which was up to date on everything and the latest model at the time i still have issues with my android software. some have gotten worse since i updated the OS.
my screen sharing option seems to always have a unstable conntection and needs to be connected everytime i start a new task, my lock screen will half the time pop up with a static screen before correcting itself. my battery life still sucks, it lags like crazy, it full of bloatware that cannot be turned off even if i dont use it which can cause the lag and battery issue. its unresponsive at times and now for some unknow reason it will kick me out of applications for no reason.
my husbands iphone 6 which hes switched out twice was because it had battery issues and major connectivity problems, which is a problem because he uses it for work. this last one seems to be much better though. apparently his issues are a common problem among the iphone 6 line which they have mainly ironed out now that theyve gotten out these later batches.
IOS is the same as Android the way they fix them is a minor patch depending on the issue and to fix it in the next OS build and that brings other weird problems as well. IOS will update all their devices though, android will fragment it and remove older devices that dont have compatible hardware which is usually about 2 years or older, or devices that have been discontinued.
its a never ending cycle on all platforms, IOS and Android just do their own internal testing and get a focus group to mash out major issues if they find any. the only difference MS does these beta testings to get customer feedback which is great and horrible at the same time. theres some people you cant please no matter the changes you make and that just tells me people are spoiled especially since their fine with spending tons of money every year for the latest gadets.
im quite happy with my windows phone though and have no issues other than my 930 is a battery sucker at times though its been alot better since i installed update 2.
But when will we get thumbs up for comments? Or use emojis? These are the real problems bringing us all down. :-(
Lol
You know , the android and IOS communities are even worse, point bring noted about us too, but we are the only community on earth that are helping a company to build something to our taste. I really proud of that fact. And I still vote ours as the best community, sure Microsoft can be unnerving sometimes, and sometimes we lose a nerve, but I think its all for the greater part. So, peace y'all... WINDOWS :D
@buddy007 Agreed! I wouldn't trade it for anything...
Uninspired by Talkman and Cityman, I have upgraded from my ageing L920 to an inexpensive, second hand L930.
The difference is amazing. This phone is like lighting in comparison! Highly recommend this move if you are in the same situation.
This should see me out until Windows 10 mobile is ready for me to upgrade the software, and later the hardware when a REAL flagship is available!
Surface Phone anyone?
Why is everyone down on the 950 and 950XL. I think the specs are great. What are the shortcomings, so I know? Thank you.
I'd like to know this as well. Some of my coworkers have really nice looking Android phones... Gorgeous display, super thin, and light. I hope Microsoft's new ones are like this. I want my coworkers to be envious of mine for a change, and not just say "that's pretty nice". I'm an avid Microsoft fan (and shareholder), so I'll be one to buy regardless, but they have so much competition in this space.
Spec wise they are really really great. Awesome. Wonderful...
However, the design seems kind of a mid range phone. To be put blunt, the 950XL looks very very similar to my 640XL. Which is a mid ranger. In my opinion, high end phone should show some differentiation to the naked eye rather than the internals.
And another rumour is that they are going to come in black and white only. That really puts me off and pushes me to the verge. Why in the world I buy a Lumia which is either black or white? There are gazillion phones comes in black and white. Bold colour will differentiate a Lumia in a sea of Android and iPhone. Even though Android does indeed comes in various colours, the exterior of Lumia seems a lot better than them.
When I read news like that, I really missed Nokia right away. It seems that Microsoft is trying to put an example of what a real Windows 10 mobile can do for other OEMs and trying(hoping) their level best to get others on board rather than set themselves apart from the competition. I guess If it's Nokia, a company whose profit mostly depends on device and not services, is in the game, we might have gotten some phones that are also camera friendly.
When I flaunt my Lumia 920, others know that it is a flagship even before I open my mouth about the internals. If I flaunt my Lumia 640XL, others like it the best when they know the price. And if the renders come to reality just the same, others will ask me why the phone looks cheap for sure. They look premium for a mid ranger but look plain for a high end.
Nokia got out of that game, because we saw making Windows Phones is a losing proposition
Yeah, I dont get the hate either - I like what we've seen so far of the hardware. I'm more concerned with things like no wiresless payments, messaging that seems to be forever in limbo, and of course, the lack of real progress on the app front (which I expect to start picking up some in 2016).
The design is uninspired, the specs are comparable to phones more than a year old, and there is no killer feature - nothing to make this phone stand out amoung other phones.
They are nice phones, sure, just not quite flagship phones in my opinion. I really hope that there is a "surface" flagship phone around the corner, otherwise the competition is starting to look nice right about now.
They look like the cheap Lumia phones Nokia made earlier and I'm not a fan of the speaker on the back of the phone. That's my take on it.
People think the 950 and 950xl look boring. But let's consider the 920 for example. It's not especially flashy, it just had some colour options. Curved-ish screen at the edges of the glass. I doubt the 950 is going to have straight as a bone glass, so it'll likely have the same curved at the edges screen as the 920, but you just can't see it in the leaked renders because they are just elevations. I think the 950 and 950xl will be really nice looking phones. Well, the only point against the 950 i have is the back camera looks a little cheap, with that thick metal ring around it. The 950xl looks spot on though.
Agreed, for the most part. However, it just goes to show you how subjective "styling" is, I've seen many people who think that the 950 looks slicker than the XL "because of" the camera (more metal = better looking...no matter where the metal is.) That's why I say just wait until you have phones in hand because renders and photos often don't tell the whole story (I hated the Icon's renders/photos then when I saw the actual phones I was stunned at how great looking the white one was...I bought it right away.)
Have you seen the s6 pics that show a straight on front view and back view,People re crazy about it, but those views looks boring too....lol..Its just that it's a render.
@mildmanneredjanitor - Definitely one of the better phones out there. I would not even think about upgrading if it had LTE in the states.
@mildmanneredjanitor That is my thought. I am considering a 930 too. Still, my L1020 has only a year and I spent what I consider a lot of money on it to just ditch it.. .on the other hand, the ageing is showing.
I think I will get a 930 when I decide to replace the phone.
Windows Central can help mitigating some negativism by separating out the 'General Discussions' posts from the news articles. I'm sick of reading the "Do you honestly plan to buy another WP?" post everyday.
Yeah, I agree, and it's also annoying that they are made to look so much like news items, that I've been "tricked" by them a few times.
They are trending threads, the more active a thread is it will appear on front page. I doubt they are being manually put there.
Excatly. Thats how most pages work.
Indeed! Even we here in the community does have some disagreements, positive or negative comments about Microsoft and its products. Its really because we just simply care about the platform and in Microsoft things in general, we want to make it best if not the best. In the very end, we all want Microsoft efforts to be successful and not waste those. We just want a platform we've invested in to be satisfying and something we can be proud of. I don't think we intent to put someone (Microsoft) down, but we just want to point out the mistakes needs to be fixed and highlight great things needs to continue and spread it out.
I just want the damn site and the app to work. Since the redesign, it has been like Windows 10 (on any device): looks good but LOTS of rough edges. The site is especially bad on WP8.1 Mobile IE. And really, it's not much better on IE11, especially the comment editor. By extension, this just adds to my frustration with the whole situation with Windows 10 (on any device) Daniel was talking about. Forget spending money on a laptop to use/review. Spend that money on fixing the site and app.
Nist, Nist, Nist.... Is the WP community imploding❔❔❔❔
........
For the past year, or so, I've been warning you guys that MS just isn't doing enough.... Originally it was MARKETING, but that quickly became overshadowed by a lack OF NEW HIGH END DEVICES....... Nevertheless, the WP sheep here didn't take me seriously.. I knew the situation was critical a long time ago....
....
THIS ARTICLE IS LATE.. IT SHOULD'VE BEEN PUBLISHED A YEAR AGO..... SMDH..
I believe it's Tsk.Tsk.Tsk.
& all valid points.
WP's only hope is Enterprise with the assurance of always up-to-date secure devices. Speaking of which... somebody taking applicants?
Yeah... WM10 is the Blackberry of Blackberry... Lol.
- Tupac
The blacker the berry the sweeter the juice?
Yeah, well, she blacker than a MoFo too....
And, another thing..... I understand that we need to stay positive, and I admit to being hard on Daniel, myself.... But, the fact that these City/Talk leaks are already disappointing is seriously bad news!!! The only thing that could be good about these leaks is if they are an intentionally leak by MS meant to divert attention from something possibly appealing....
............
But, if not then WM10 is already a failure... MS is already loosing money as they tool up assembly lines... SMDH.... And, we can already see it down the line, right now!!..... I have faith that the OS will be fine.. I mean, MS hasn't ever really failed us in that department, and we have no reason to think they will with WM10.......
But, there's just no exciting hardware in site for it to run on, so what are we supposed to think???..... As much as I love WP/WM we really are all a bunch of fools to believe things will be different this time around.... But, like Daniel said,, it's our choice to stick around....
.......
Well, I'm a GD fool, because I'm going to wait it out, and see what happens...... I guess the good news is that I still have my 1520 (The best WP device to date, and in the foreseeable future).. That's the best I can do, besides pray one day that Nokia rises from it's ashes, makes an Android device, and then decides to make WM10 devices..... Because, MS has definitely killed the essence of Lumia.... At least, for now, it appears they have...
But Rodneyej, I get the hohum on the Wphones but then I have looked at the others and I get the same hohum feeling? The new iphones were nothing .... a liitle bit of garnish for an old dish and not even new garnish just borrowed. The fact is there is not much going on anywhere...
But, the iPhone 6 was hot when it came out.. It's a great device.... The difference between Apple, and MS is that Apple stuck with a good thing, and MS digressed.
I've got one, and no, it's not really that great. If you've seen one iPhone, you've seen them all. Boring as hell. Bring on the Cityman!
If you've seen a Lumia phone, you've seen them all ...
Apple has incrementally built on a stable platform year after year adding features, ironing out the kinks. MS started over with WP7, then started over with WP8, WP8.1 was the first iterative improvement on a "stable" platform and was probably the best mobile OS we've seen. Now, they're starting over again with a brand new OS again. It will be a bit buggy, missing features and have to grow. I'm sure it will be fantastic in a couple of years. The question is, will anyone care any more?
@ pallentx
This times 1000 - I am sticking with Windows Mobile as I just dont like iOS or Android (have had an iPhone and have an Android Phone as well as my Nokia) but its not a mature OS, it will take time to mature and hopefully now they are stopped reinventing the wheel we can get the nice stuff. I am just hoping they keep at it rather than just giving up I would hate to loose Windows Mobile (Phone)
So what I'm getting from all this is that the only thing that matters about a device is looks. I guess you're right. We really just are shallow people who are just the by-products of a lifestyle obsession. The only that matters about a phone is how cool it makes us look. Samsung obvisiously figured it out. The S6 is a prime example of that. Hell, look what they did to the Note 5. Took all the stuff that hardcore users love about that phone and threw it out just for the sake of looks. So you're right. This is all for not. For no other reason than the Cityman and Talkman phones aren't going to make me look cool.
That's way too cynical... Nobody said that the only thing that matters is looks... See, this is exactly what I'm talking about when I say that a lot of WP fans are nothing but sheep.. No offense, but your comment is a poor excuse to try and Justify a shortcoming... Justifying short comings is pathetic....
.......
Now, looks aren't everything, but they are a lot... Are you not aware of the market share situation Lumia devices are in? Not aware of the app situation?... Really? Come on, man.... The average consumer wants what's appealing on the surface... WM can't survive with just us... You know what?? Ok, looks are everything. Ok? They are... We need market share, we need the average consumer to buy Lumia devices, we need developer support, so these devices better be damn good on the surface... I mean, they are going up against some pretty tough competition, competition that's virtually impossible to beat at this point... And, you question whether looks are everything❔❔❔
What everyone, including MS, fails to realize is that every aspect of their devices are everything.. Everything to be perfect in every area, there's no room for faults, or mistakes.... And, especially looks! We are talking about store shelves here! Lol! SMDH... Wow! Everything has to be amazing...... And, we should expect no less.
How am I trying to justify a short coming? I'm pointing out that we are nothing but shallow people and care more about looks than anything else. I wasn't being sarcastic.
You're right, everything needs to be amazing. I have a Note 4 and it is AMAZING. It's amazing how Google Now thinks my home address is my work address and vice versa even though I have it inputted correctly into the app. It's also amazing that I have looked and found no way to fix that. It's also amazing the keyboard crashes on regular basis. It's also amazing that I've had more text fail to send this past month then the whole 3 years I used WP. But you know what is really the most amazing about this phone? What's most amazing is that the Note 4 isn't even a year old and Samsung has pretty much stopped giving a crap about it. All those new awesome software features built into the Note 5 and S6, which include better battery life and camera functionality, well those are part of the new version of TouchWiz and Samsung has made no signs that they are going to bring those over to the Note 4. Actually, you know what, now I get it. The Note 4 isn't pretty enough to update.
Man, you've made my day!
Me too, my wife has a tab 3 and she got it after I got my Acer tab, it is now on her bedside table gathering dust while my tab is now her go to device running as fast as it was when I got it!
Man, your focus is in the wrong place... Pointing out iDroids shortcomings is useless... The fact is that for whatever iDroid devices are their developers have found a way to make them popular.... That's the bottom line...
......
You can sit hear and talk about how WP is better till you're blue in the face, and it doesn't matter.. Nobody hears you..... Remember all that talk I did about Marketing❔ Well, look at what you're saying now... Your comment sounds as if you're complaining about awareness, and that I would have to agree with you on.... But, that's MS job to fix... Who are you really gonna convince that WP is better than iDroid, the average consumer?? Good luck with that... The only thing that's gonna convince the majority is a seriously relentless marketing campaign that overshadows EVERYTHING! There's just no point telling WP fans, in a Windows website, how iDroid is less desirable.. Lol..
If you believe that people don't buy clothes, cars, houses, watches, phones etc partially due to what they offer, but also how they look, you live in a strange world.
The Surface Pro line is the perfect example. Here we have a great device that is also stylish and it sells.
Rubbish designed phones won't sell. Simple as that!
I'm saying that's obviously the only reason to buy anything. Who cares how clothes fit as long as they make me look cool. Who cares how a car drives or how reliable it is as long as it makes me look cool. Who cares if the house is a money pit as long as it makes me seem cool. Who cares how a guitar sounds or plays as long as it makes me look cool. Now if Apple could make a house, car, clothes, and guitar so we know what cool looks like my life would be so much easier.
But, who in this world ever said that looks only matter??? That's you're own personal generalization... People just think looks are just as important, so for MS to gain traction they have to be there as well.... There is no room for error when you're playing catchup for five years, going on six........ Why do you argue that?. Lol.
I'm going off the assumption that you are saying looks are the only thing that matters since all we have with the City/Talkman leaks is just images. You seem to think that they are really disappointing, so if you aren't going off looks then what are you basing this on?
You are the only one here saying only looks matter..... read the comments and see.
We are saying that part of peoples buying choice relates to how things look..... like I want a red car or a blue car....... like I want a phone with a keyboard or not....... like I want a phone with a particular design.
No one is being shallow, they are making choices based on what they like. It's not being shallow, it's called consumer choice.
No, I went thru and Rod mentions looks several times.
You're right.. The device has to be firing on all 8 cylinders. Everything has to be perfect.
Your prayers will be answered Rod. Well...up to the point of "decides to make WM10 devices". Nokia is not run my masochists anymore ;P But I'll be here (or there) to welcome you to the Android family and help you out setting your Microsoft services on your future Nokia Android device ;)
Maybe so... Who knows. I can only go on being a pathetic sheep for so long..
You know you're one of the worst people on here for talking things down. Now going as far as calling us all sheep if we happen to disagree with your point of view. I happen to like Cityman. In person it will look better and I'm going to be far happier with its feature set. I wouldn't say the design has digressed, just that MS has gone for practicality and usability. Samsung are the ones digressing especially with their Note as they've made it into something it shouldn't be.
HidingTrouble I agree with your point completely too. I have a Note 4 (plus other Android phones) and the amount of crashing, errors and lag just makes me go back to my 1520. Note 4 wasn't bad until it received Lollipop. Slow as hell now.
You say it looks great, but the majority says otherwise.... OK. Ok, you expect for MS to sell devices that way? Lol. Come on man. Wake up.
See. Im right. It all comes down to looks and what the majority thinks.
Nah, Rodneyej is one of the best people on here. He is very entertaining. He says it's not about looks then says it is. He brings up marketing so much I have to assume he works at an ad firm that has Microsoft as a client. His marketing rants also don't take into consideration that perhaps that MS has done the math and decided that the billions that they would need to spend wouldn't be worth the gamble. Or that marketing doesn't change the zeitgeist. He talks about growing market share when Microsoft has said they are done trying to grow their smartphone business. He calls us sheep but you and I have moved on and others as well because I keep seeing "posted from Windows Central for Android" more and more in the comments.
Every good drama needs conflict and Rodneyej brings it. Do you ever see him comment on positive stories? Nope. He only comes to complain and I enjoy reading it(and egging it on).
Side note, yeah Lollipop ruined the Note 4. The hilarity about that is that I've read that Samsung seems to have ironed out the kinks in the new version of TouchWiz and 5.1.1 and of course the Note 4 doesn't seem to be getting it.
Dj should I go Note 5 or wait for the Z5 premium? I've always stuck to Samsung but Sony looks to have stepped up this year.
I'll check on windows late 2016 I think.
Posted via the WC App for Galaxy S6
If you are use to Samsung then I suggest you go into a phone shop, turn up the brightness on a Sony and Samsung phone to high, then compare the brightness, vibrancy etc.
Sony makes great phones but the screen always disappoints me. But that's personal taste.
I doubt that as the screen on the Z3 outclasses just about everything on the market in terms of screen brightness. Why you ask? I own one. :)
Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
I am thinking the same. How is it MS is able to keep the surface pro 4 and the band 2 and whatever else they will come out with a secret?? but the phones keep getting leaked.... So much that we already know everything about these phones......
At least that's what I am hoping.
It does make sense.... MS is intentionally leaking trash... Lol.. But, seriously.
It's the carriers. The marketing campaigns are organized in good time and the renders are shared with the carriers, and they leak like <fill in the empty slot>.
I sure hope you're wrong.. Lol.. Because these leaks don't look nowhere near final.
Once again, looks
Sit tight, Surface phone is coming (maybe first half of 2016), MS has shown it (or rather early renders) and it's everything you'd expect. Think surface pro design style, beefy specs and probably matching price tag.
We've been sitting here since 2010-11 waiting on a surface phone when the rumors started back then. By now, we should be on the third iteration.... Like the surface pro 3 is! We've lost some die hard Windows phone users, not because of the OS or app shortcomings, but because they were simply tired of waiting for the flagship phones we've been told were coming soon. I honestly think if Balmer was still in charge at Microsoft, we would have the flagships, Office would have been on WP first or simultaneously with other platforms. Satya seems to have put WP last on his to do list. His current actions show his displeasure with Balmer's decision to purchase Nokia(d & s). Balmer knew how important mobile was, that's why he approved the purchase. I like Satya's Cloud vision, but I don't think he has a mobile hardware vision at all; I remember almost two years ago, Microsoft had plan b Surface phone prototypes. Where are they? Answer, "Satya canned them". Has said he axed the surface mini because it wasn't a game changer and wouldn't compete well against competing devices, yet we get these renderings of talkman/cityman that also don't compete, especially when they're late to the party. You're supposed to learn from your processors mistakes! We were late to the mobile party once under Balmer. Well Balmer purchased a capable mobile division in Nokia and what has Satya done with it? We all know the answer to that question. Sound off on it guys!
You're exactly right... I completely agree.
You cannot build a Surface Phone until you have an x86 mobile chip from Intel. That will arrive in early (cross my fingers) 2016. the chip is called boxtron. It will probbly run at 2 watts and compete well against qualcomm. Intel's 14 nm process is superior to TSMC or Samsung. But the design process is taking for ever with Intel.
Your departure is late, Should have happened a year ago...
Lolololollololollolololololl....... Good one. Almost laughed so hard.....
.........
We should've both left a year ago,,,, especially seeing what we're seeing now.. Hahaha!!
It hurts everytime I read your comments. Stop using those dots and you are telling anything new.
You aren't
Lol!!!!!!!!! You mean to tell me you don't like this...............................................................................................................................................................................................-....---------.........-----._______________ .
Be like Tim. Acknowledge and carry on )))
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Keep using those dots!! I like how you break up your thoughts rather some long bunch of words!
This guys says it hurts his eyes......
I'm trying to give his beady little eyes a break... Lol.
Its not "this guy" its every guy. We all find your childish formating, and juvenile view of the world most tedious.
Leaving is easy... There's not even a door. Bye!
LOL
Well I can fix it. Ms I think does not want it fixed. They should cut their end users lose or hire me to fix it.
BTW Samsung is not doing that great.
Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
doing better than WP.
To be a WP fan, and say "Samsung is not doing great",,,, is EXACTLY like saying nothing at all.......
Really Rodney?
Really.
At least the article is there.
#Be#Happy
Why should you make it about YOU ?
You're not the only one waiting for high end devices.. I don't understand the "me me me me, I told you" argument. Totally pointless.
Maybe you don't understand it, but you damn well better believe it, son.
,
Yeah MS are masters of screwing up but you can't blame them for not releasing a flagship right b4 WP10 launch. Imagine the media storm they would get. That being said yes it suck big time.
What sucks big time❔❔❔❔❔❔❔❔
OH MY F'ING GODD STOP SAYING "SMDH" !!!! It makes you look irrelevant and no one is going to take you seriously if you sound like a wimpy 5 year old.
I'm supposed to care if you don't take my point seriously... Lolollololololol!!!!
......
Are you kidding me?.. SMDH.
Good one!
LOL, you were warning everyone? Oh shiz, we totally should have jumped ship because rodneyej tol' all uh us that MS no doin' enuff, shucks.
The real question then is if you knew this and it's nothing but WP sheep here, what are you doing here?
OK, Rodney - Let's put it in your lap and see how you would change things? How many High-End devices would you have Microsoft put out into the Retail pipeline? 2? 4? 14? Pick a number? Are you a Marketing Analyst? How many combined years of Marketing experience do you have versus the ENTIRE Marketing staff of Microsoft?
How about Product Design? What's your experience there? Software Development? Sales?
One does not simply bolster sales by putting more, only slightly different brands of "Product Design X" when other companies that design & build harware that runs on very similar hardware platforms that your "Product Design X" does.
There is a "Tipping Point" that will happen very soon concerning "SillyValley" phones - since there has been nearly ZERO innovation from Cupertino or Mountain View over the last 2 years: iOS and Android still look the same, function still the same, with minimal innovation. Apple's newest innovation is something that Steve Jobs originally said that nobody wanted for an Apple product. That's their "innovation". Touch Point/Pressure causing a pseudo-pageflip for apps? Ooh, how innovative!
Give the community something in this thread that shows us that we should take your thinking any more seriously than people that have had DECADES of experience.
(from a former Software Test Engineer and MSFix Team memeber, and a memeber of the WindowsNT 3.1 DevTeam)
Would you happen to be running beta software that is still a work in progress?
Just saying because we have to keep in mind that the Windows Insider program is nothing any other mobile OS has given us the opportunity to help them TEST.
next time that happens hold all 4 buttons (volume is two buttons) at the same time and it will reboot
You're missing the point. Exclusive apps are bad. You want and need the best windows apps to be in the hands of everybody to lessen the barriers of switching. If Cortana and office etc are so good then let it compete.
With cross platform penetration you back door the app problem and hope hardware comes through. Yes you can switch to them happily but the goal is to ensure the same is true for their users looking at us.
The app problem is a cycle that must be broken proactively. If the apps flop over there or the hardware doesn't catch up then there was never any hope
Microsoft sells software, get Apple users to use Microsoft software and you get potential software customers. I'm not too sure its to bring them to WP.
If i were in your place waiting for a flagship and my daily driver dies on me i'd pick a 640 or even a 540 as a stopgap and then grab the flagship once available. Bith these devices are quite capable and will perform well compared to the 1020.
My 8X just cracked coming off a 3yr contract here in Canada. Don't want to waste an upgrade on the 830 but that's really all we have half decent on my carrier. Was debating between blu win hd lte and 640 since the former is actually sold here unlocked on MS store while the later isn't. Think im gonna snag an unlocked 640 from the US on eBay though since it'll still he about $40-50cdn cheaper
Or buy an unlocked 1520 or 930 off of eBay. They're pretty cheap these days and still excellent phones. Whatever you do, don't get a carrier subsidized phone. Check out BYOD plans, and you can get $15 off your monthly plan without a contract... that adds up quickly.
Well I have a budget limit at the moment and in Canada we have the import charges and pay like 30c extra on the dollar due to the exchange rate. I' m keeping an eye out for a good deal on top phones still though.
Right now I just got off Bell and the wife's contract with Rogers just ended. Her bill dropped and she doesn't want to waste her upgrade on an 830 so close to new announcements. Right now I'm going to jump on her plan with a new phone for like $15 extra and work Rogers to give her a new upgrade later without seeing a price increase albiet we'll probably lock in for 2yrs.
I am hoping MS copies a bit from Apples upgrade program. I like the idea of paying a monthly for a new phone annually without locking into a carrier contract.
Yeah, the exchange rate is killer right now. I'm in Canada, as well, on Virgin. Any reason you went with Bell and Rogers instead of one of the budget carriers? I've found you pay far less for the same plans on the same network. I jumped on a deal with Virgin in June, and am paying just $44 a month for unlimited talk and text and 1GB data (which probably isn't a good deal anywhere but Canada), but even now the same plan is only $55/month which would save you $5/month over the exact same plans from the big three.
Proceed with cation... Specifically if you are referring to Groove Music. I dragged my wife with me on WIndows Phones from HTC Radar to 920 to 1020... Once her 1020 took a dump she wouldn't bite on an 830 jumped ship to iPhone and has been pinning on pinterest like a bot since. Most of the services are good and for someone like my wife who had lived in Windows Phone ecosystem for years, that in fact became THE KEY to her making the decision she did. Specifically the tipping point being the fact that her camera roll could STILL be thrown up to OneDrive. Groove is still a nightmare, crashes like a beta. This is where MSFT is in between a rock and a hard place. They have become so irrelavent in the mobile space that Satya was forced to push their services onto platforms that matter, making it extremely easy for fans who have lost their patience to jump ship, casualties no doubt that MSFT saw coming and could do nothing about. I hate when people claim they don't get it and didn't realize that this was going to happen. Of course they did, but they have no choice: they must stay relavent in the mobile space. I hope they continue to improve the services, if they do not then it is all for nothing. That being said, I also believe this is why we may see a Surface Phone soon, the ONLY momentum they have in Mobile is Surface, as Daniel stated, even Apple copied them due to the success it's having. And because of THIS SP POSIBILITY, all of this gloom, this dark place we have been in the last year (seems like an eternity) a light may finally be at the end of the VERY LONG tunnel. The sad part is how many more people will really leave after cityman talkman release is lackluster and we must wait yet again until spring or early summer for a PREMIUM surface phone.
Agree with you that MS needed to move their services to competing platform to stay relevent in Mobile space... Heck I can even agree that they needed to release apps/services on rival platforms earlier than windows as it made business sense... What I don't get is that they have not been able to make half-decent apps on their own platform (WP8.1 & Win10) compared to iOS... Skype is bad, Modern Office on even Win10 is not looking as great as what was demoed on iPad Pro... Sway only launched with Win10... more than a year after debuting on iOS...
This is unacceptable and the doom of WP has been brought about by MS themselves...
I would switch to iPhone if I could afford... and I am not going to buy Cityman/Talkman unless its half the price of iPhone.... I know people would call me a troll or whatever... but I see my friends using iPhone and they are very happy... The only thing I would miss is the Offline Maps & routing from Here and the great keyboard.... But with Here launching on iOS/Android... Offline routing can't be faroff....
Here is already here, at least on Android so far as I'm concerned, and it works beautifully
If only MS could get their s*** together and make the OS great at launch and their own services on par with what they offer on Android and IOS.Now if they could pair that with a SurfacePhone in the same quality as the SP4 (vaporrmag, great finish etc) wouldn't that be something great to show the world???
It will be good at launch, but I dont expect "great" until some time next year. They started from scratch with a brand new OS. They'll be lucky to get all the major bugs out and have it stable by launch.
Coming Soon ©
The real issue in your story is that the hardware wasn't good enough. Forcing people to stay artificially through app restrictions is a terrible long term strategy nonetheless. If WP had an enticing phone she probably would have stayed.
I did say if the hardware doesn't keep up the ecosystem has no chance
As far as pinterest, you'll have to count me as one who believes universal apps will address the windows app problem and we'll see that by this time next year
hmm, happened to me too yesterday, 1020 - all fine now - wondering is there any greater cosmic significance to this : )))
Mine froze also -
Power button / volume button down
Fixed
My 1020 is getting old and I am excited to see these new developments for Windows phone
Where does this perception that MS care more about other platforms come from? Seriously, compile me a list please of where Android or Apple MS apps are better. Occasionally first, mostly not by much - but you guys hang on to it and believe it like its some kind of religeon. Its a myth we need to dispell. Did Windows 10 just come out for Mac? Is the Xbox Win 10 OS going onto iPad this year? MS are painfully slow sometimes, but this "they love other platforms more" nonsense has to stop. Put up a list, or let this myth dispell.
Personally i think its fine if MS releases there apps first on ios and android, that way they can collect data and feed back to give winows phone users a better app.
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Hwangeruk nadella released office 2016 before to mac than Windows, this man is doing interests of their competitors and want to change ms into an internet service provider (cloud) with a lot of big data mining Services...
I don't trust this man, it recalls me ceo that destroyed sw division in ibm Like Palmisano did
Ms releasing better apps or apps before on other competitors'os is just destroying it's own brand and loosing credibility in the Long time..
Now all big applause to Satya momentum...
But the troubles will come later
I'm not a ms shareholder so at a certain moment.. Who cares?
I still love wp, i still love all my lumia, don't love anymore ms and don't trust anymore on them
Thanks Satya!
Hope the board will kick you out before it's too late
As a MSFT shareholder, I do like Nadella's vision. Forget about Office for mac... The last version for mac was 2011, and they were pain to use. And seeing now office is making money using office 365 subscription... I don't see any points that they can't release before they do on windows, as long as they are ready...
He know what he is doing.
Actually, I feel that it is other way around. If you are choosing a CEO, you should really hope that he has a statistics background or engineering background.
If Steve Ballmer had either of those in his background, I feel that he would have not messed up with the whole mobile thing. Satya Nadella on the other hand had an engineering background and he knew what he is doing - however, that does not pleases everyone.
Getting Office 2016 first on a Mac is the only one thing that I can approve with him having to release it first on that platform. If you have ever used Office for Mac 2011, you would know that it is more inferior compared to the Office 2013 for PC. If us PC users are pretty content with Office 2013, but Mac users aren't with the really outdated version, what would be a better priority? Of course the one where more people are not content. Also, getting an Office for Mac was long overdue,
Now regarding having apps updated first on competing platforms - that I do not agree with. Taking my statement above, they should be prioritizing the platform where the apps are more inferior.
And the Mac Office version still includes only the 5 basic application: Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook and OneNote. Only on Windows can you get the full Office suite (Access, Publisher, Visio, Project, etc.). Sounds like they still give preferential treatment to their own platform to me...
its a lot of little things that Microsoft has not been able to build upon. It does suck that it seems they cannot keep up with the other platforms. Go no further than skype and groove music. Skype works so much better on other platforms, and since WP8, the music app has been second rate to other offerings.
Wait WP has a music app??? /S
I think a lot of it comes from the fact that MSFT promotes their apps (like Office) on other platforms (iOS/Android) but doesn't do such a stellar job promoting it on Windows 10 or Windows 10 mobile. I mean all they needed to say when they introduced the Office apps for the iPad Pro was "these are AMAZING apps on the iPad Pro, and you can do some truly great things on with them on the iPad Pro, but they're ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE on a Surface or on a phone running Windows 10".
You seem to be comparing Modern/Touch version of Office to Desktop one... If you compare the the Touch version on both... iPad Pro version seems better than Win10...
The two that I personally use the most that I miss on Windows Mobile & even Windows 10 are:
1. Outlook email
2. Sunrise calendar
Are you seriously gonna sit here, and ask this question in front of thousands who already know this to be FACT❔
There's no point in retorting to everyone about this Rodney. The few who deny the fact that MS likes to take precedence over their own are either new to the platform or having some serious cognitive dissonance problems right now.
-I've been here since 2007 too. I feel more alienated on this platform than ever because of this. Which is probably why I use Android and WP equally now. Sadly I was a such a fanboy of this OS for years after 7 released. That perspective changes soon enough if you stay on the platform long enough.
Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
I too bought the very first WP 7 LG phone (with a slide out keyboard), fell in love with the OS immediately.
Bought 3 Nokia 1520s for wife, self, and duaghter. Loved them. but. no market share, no apps. no apps, no market share.
I still would prefer to have WP OS over android and apple, but I gave up. I have an iPhone 6 and Samsung S6 Edge.
Wife and daughter went iPhone 6.
Got tired of waiting for MS to get somewhere. Here it is years later, and it's no better. No phones, broken OS, some of the apps I did have, geico, dropped all support for WP and removed their app from the app store...
There is a time when you must stick a fork in it and call it done.
I still have a nokia 1520. haven't even turned it on is 4 months now. Done. New MS phones. ugly. no sale. Done.
Uhhh.... Outlook email and smart glass are both better on android and ios
Office is better on Android / IOS. Onenote on Windows Phone is essentially the same app it was on WP7! Wunderlist (now a Microsoft app) is better. Sunrise Calendar (purchased by MS) still isn't even available for Windows Phone. That's where the perception comes from
Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
I think they are waiting on the 2 new bridges to go Live.... then they would build all the apps natively for iOS and then just port them for Win10/Mobile.. /s
You are on point, I also would like to see a list of Microsoft apps whose experience is better on other platforms.
I firmly believe Microsoft and Nedella could change all this with a little love and attention. Windows phones just seem like an annoying afterthought to Microsoft. Why is mobile still not out? How can it be taking so long to produce feature phones? Why is there no cool integration planned between Windows PCs and Windows phones? If Nedella gives a crap about phones, say something exciting about them. Show some passion for them. Something. Satya, your silence is killing your biggest fans. Say something!
Building a phone is hard. In Microsoft's case it's even harder because all phone components come with Linux (Android) drivers and it takes MS more time and effort to bring up every new hardware component into the WinNT environment
First I heard of that. If true, it also means BlackBerry would run into the same problem with BlackBerry 10.
Don't make excuses for them!
This... is BS
I agree 100%. It's hard to be convinced that Nadella truly cares about Windows Phone. I think he totally wanted to abandon it, but was afraid that the Windows community would've went ape sh*t crazy and he didn't want that to muddy the Windows 10 launch... so he hasn't pulled the plug yet. But it's pretty clear he doesn't care.
I just want a Windows Phone I can brag about. 1020 and 1520 were masterpieces. OS will get better in time. Apps still is a big problem.
"I just want a Windows Phone I can brag about".
That's pretty sad.
Why is it sad? People brag about things they purchase all the time. People brag about cars, watches, computers, etc. When they like somethink, people will tell otheres about it. That is why word of mouth is a lot more powerful than any advertisement. Praise from someone you know will get you to buy something much faster than watching an ad on tv.
Some people brag about their stuff, not all. People like that are annoying.
Similiarily, the same comment could be said about people like yourself :P.
True. But "people bragging" has been the main reason behind Apple's auccess. We can't deny that. Bragging is "free advertisement" of a product in a way.
Have you thought for a second that people that brag, such as apple fans, do so because they like a product so much they can't help but share their experience with those cose to them?
Nope. It is because it is expensive and designer bla bla bla. Just the same as people going around bragging about how much they have spent on a pair of pants. Sad fact but thats how the world works man
My 1020 was awesome. My 1520 seemed rather bland in comparison.
I completely agree. The Apps will come if Microsoft can deliever better product. My first laptop was a PowerBook G4, finding programs that worked on OS X was horrible, but eventually making a superior product (software and hardware) brings customers. It just takes a time. My only worry is that by the time everyone realizes how much better Windows 10 is than iOS, mobile OS will be left with two players... An aging iOS and it's clone.
Yes and today OS X has a massive 5% marketshare.... I love WP but if they fuck this one up (2016 cycle) then WP is dead.
Just read this everybody to get the complete picture. http://seekingalpha.com/article/3503146-intel-and-microsoft-will-penetra...
fly_branch
This is just wishful thinking that Wintel domination will somehow transfer to mobile. It was Win32 that kept this going on the desktop.
On Mobile, all prior tries by Intel to present a low consumption CPU failed, good GPUs+drivers too. I would be looking at AMD for better results, now that the Athlon guy is back.
Legacy programs are not suitable for touch and are power hungry.
ARM on the other hand has big.LITTLE that can handle all scenarios.
Even if Intel/amd manage to present a mobile CPU for phone, android could adapt too. Intel support for android will be better than for win10.
The only reasons to have an wiltel phone would be to context it to tv keyboard and run older windows programs / games. This goes against the new Microsoft that wants you to replace your programs with apps from the store.
Well it's hard to stay positive when we can't see the whole picture and it takes forever to develop while things and products are actually happening all around us. I feel like we're the guys on the Titanic playing our instruments in the face of an eventual death. We know it's coming but we want to go out with one last song. Not saying that's how this story will end but it does feel similar.
You may be the guy who play instryments, I on the otherhand am stuck inside the ship. I see the water comming but the door is stuck!
Agree.. Well said.
To be frank this article should have come an year back
What's sad is that he could've written it a year ago... and yet... nothing has changed. We're still waiting...
Fully replacing pocket ie was a bad idea right now as edge feels like using ie5.5/6 impossible to use on most sites & has yet to show performance gains
There is another story here. One about timing. One that Microsoft can never tell us, as to do so would be damning to the platform.
It takes place when Microsoft inked the deal to purchase Nokia's phone arm just over two years ago. Two years without promising new flagship hardware. What did make its way out of Nokia after that was quickly neutered in the form of the rapidly EOL'ed Icon/930, or the euthanized McLaren.
It takes time to develop new hardware. Phones we get today were put into the pipeline months or years ago, and with the changeover and terminated development programs, there would be an inevitable dead-spot in new product until the new/current/MS development cycle began bearing fruit. To truly understand what was happening at that juncture, let us fast forward to today, to recognize what must have been in development back then.
Microsoft today has a lot on its plate with Windows 10, its bread-and-butter, rolling out to the masses--to say nothing of developing the Surface Pro 3, Surface 3, and coming Surface Pro 4, plus systems such as Xbox, Surface Hub, HoloLens, and who-knows-what-else. And that's just hardware. We must not forget critical apps such as the coming 2016 Office Suite, Cortana, Grove, and Bing and all of its associated services. Quite a lot on its plate, indeed.
Knowing that this past year or two has likely been one of the busiest in Microsoft's history, you might wonder why Microsoft would choose to take on the task of reinventing their mobile device in-house. Why now?
Here is the answer: Microsoft didn't choose to do this now. It had no other options. Nokia had put all of their eggs in the Windows Phone basket. It was becoming increasingly clear to the Finnish corporation that had they gone with Android, they would have ultimately been in much better shape. But they did not. They took a risk on Microsoft, and it didn't pay off. So Nokia decided it was time to cut their losses.
They didn't consult with Microsoft's timeline, they simply made the decision. If you will recall, Nokia controls some 97% of all Windows Phones these days. Clearly, the loss of Nokia would mean an instant end to Windows Phone. Even Nokia falling into the wrong hands could have been disastrous for Microsoft, potentially losing technology to competing platforms, or more likely, mismanaged to a slow death and negative PR for Microsoft.
Microsoft's only viable option was to buy out Nokia--ready, or not.
That's not an excuse for what has transpired, but I believe it to be an accurate depiction. Given the total reboot of both hardware AND software for Microsoft's phones, the prolonged delay seems to make more sense. From the marketing side of the equation, however, the longer Microsoft coasts [downhill] without fresh fruit on the vine, the more arduous their journey back up to viability will be. Microsoft's internal timelines and development aren't the concern of the buying public. The question then is, when Microsoft finally does have a product to offer that public, will they still care? Will they even notice?
That right now is old news, what really did not help was cutting almost all the windows phone division out of the blue. After the acquisition there was a re-org and just under a year later another but on the phone side. It would be impossible to stay on or accelerate any sort of development with massively reduced testing, coding and re-iteration hours available. You either increase the staff available or just cut, package and readjust the entire project or division line to match resources available thus pushing back projects by months or closing them indefinitely.
A person can only do so much.
What happened with Google's purchase of Motorola?
Google sold Motorola to Lenovo.http://www.androidcentral.com/lenovo-acquire-motorola-mobility-google-29...
The lion's share of the Nokia staff that were let go from Microsoft post-acquisition were Marketing, Sales & Sales Support Staff...or, didn't you get the memo?
"We must not forget critical apps such as the coming 2016 Office Suite, Cortana, Grove, and Bing and all of its associated services. Quite a lot on its plate, indeed."
This is exactly what's wrong:
Microsoft keeps working on things noone needs. But
So many things, ah, and don't forget that we were given week-view in calendar only in 2014!
Well, the purpose of the Raspberry Pi is to be tinkered with. So if you want an app to remote control it, write one :)
...or I'll just buy an android device...
Well, It doesn't help that most moderators and enthusiest in the forums do become incredibly stuck up explaining things from a non existent ivory tower, I completely felt shocked when I got a warning for using asterisks with the moderators claiming that it was profanity while a newscaster would say words like "F'ing" on live tv with no problem nowadays, and couldn't help but feel that because my comments were negative to MS images that I was being prosecuted, it didn't help when an article I wrote which made complete sense was rediculed as senseless by moderators or members.
The forums are becoming something like one guy is complaining about lack of water and the other people in the room are telling him, you don't know how water works, we must allow our landlord to conserve water or else he will die, let's just not get him upset.
A news caster and a forum are not even comparible... each forum on the web has it's own policy.
Thanks for taking the time to explain this, still I actually have used this many times in the forums before, this why I was startled me when it suddenly became a big deal.
It's hard to take Microsoft seriously in mobile when they move so damn slow. I mean, seriously... we waited 18 months for these generic-looking phones? It's pretty obvious that Microsoft doesn't really give a rat's ass about mobile, and the only reason Nadella didn't abandon it completely is because the Microsoft fanboys would've went ape sh*t crazy about it... and he didn't want that muddying the launch of Windows 10.
But when you look at these phones, it's hard to be convinced that Nadella cares about mobile hardware or Windows Phone at all. They're not ugly--they're just meh. Nadella's apathy for mobile is as obvious of the blue in those images.
People you must watch Apple's show of the new Iphone 6s. They're presenting Live Images as their new groundbreaking TECHNOLOGY, and they will sell it for almost 1000 euros without contract! Microsoft is gonna be eaten by Apple and the others, 'cause they don't have marketing at all. Lumia + win10 may be the best product in the world, but that's irrelevant if you don't know how to sell it.
WC Community: The Glass is half empty.
Daniel: The Glass is half full.
Microsoft: The Glass is coming soon.
Hilarious!!!
© Coming Soon
One of the things that I have noted, over time, is that Apple users pretty much wait for Apple to tell them what they want. They may read rumours and have expectations, but, when the devices come out, and they do not meet those expectations, they seem to just go "oh, well" and start talking about next year's devices.
Whereas, MS users hear rumours and see Phototshopped renditions of someones fururistic design and they set their expectations, accordingly. But, when the device does not meet those expectations, however outlandish they may be, they go ballistic.
Game Over Champ time to set your sights on a new device and just watch this boat keep sinking They have neglected the platform for too long and people will not believe the lies of watch what Microsoft has coming soon I hope they drop the terrible devices they have been building get them out so everyone can go ahead and move to a phone that is complete and will make them happy
Exactly. My analogy would be: say you're a kid, and your friends (other fanboys) ridicule you for the choice you make, constantly. You maybe can still endure that. But what hurtful is when your parents start neglecting you and, worse, take side with the bullies instead. No wonder some WP fans can be so unruly.
If there's something we can learn from this is: it does NOT pay to be a fanboy of a tech industry (especially Microsoft). I've been recently embracing the other two mobile OSes, it feels better that way; no frustration, no heartache. The best of three worlds. Like Daniel said, I am venturing out, but I'm ready to come back.
I agree with this entirely, this site is very informative and I think we need to see the potential in Windows. Every platform has it's issues. Microsoft has a great software backing though and, if not for Ballmer, Microsoft would be up there. Alas, lets give it a chance.
I just wish, like said above, that for apps like Skype we would begiven the better version. Why shouldn't we get the type of Skype, like on Android, where we can Skype and use another app at the same time and let the person see our face. Or other non-Microsoft apps like FB Messenger, why don't we get video chat or calling?
The big four - Phones, apps, users, OS. A royal catch-22 for us right now. The new OS is okay in a iOS meh way, the two flagship phones are early 2012 cool and even basic apps are lacking so new users are uninterested and current users have Palpatines number on speed dial. Phone makers are uninterested until users are interested. Etc. Where will that spark to ignite the pilot light come from? I saw a person with a Blackberry yesterday for the first time in years and didn't know whether to laugh or be sad. I then noticed a suggested app in mt WP10 store was to show me the new WP7 and I kept my mouth shut. Still hoping!!!
Whatever flagship is it gonna be, just as long as they put in a hifi sound chip, then I'll go for it!
Sometimes it feels that bad. Idk if its just general internet culture, but things have gotten so bad around here.
"omg!!!! Windows 10 only has 80 million in a month?!?! #FLOPPPPP"