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LG Incite Hits AT&T

Engadget told us it was coming, AT&T tells us that, yes, it's here (opens in new tab). Don't tell Malatesta, but we've got another basic slab phone on the block: the LG Incite. We've seen non-US WM phones from LG before, so we'll be interested to see how they build one up for the States. Here's how:

  • 4.21 x 2.2 x 0.55 inches
  • 256 mb ROM / 128 RAM / MicroSD
  • Tri-Band 3G, Quad-Band EDGE
  • GPS
  • Accelerometer
  • WiFi and Bluetooth (corrected)
  • Wacky 240x400 screen resolution on a 3“ screen
  • Windows Mobile Pro 6.1
  • Touchscreen Only, just send & and, no d-pad
  • XM and Pandora streaming radio(!)
  • 3mp camera
  • 1300 mAh battery good for 8.7 hours of talk(?!)
  • What looks to be some custom Today Screen plugins

All this can be yours for $500 off-contract or $199 with 2 years and mail-in rebates and suchlike. What say you, folks, interested?

WC Staff
WC Staff
79 Comments
  • Just in case you haven't noticed, the beta drivers are available for download from the Celio site... :)
  • I was elated to find the updated drivers on yesteday.
    I was unable to use my Redfly since switching from the Treo800w to the Sprint HTC Pro.
    The only problem I've experienced thus far is inability to maintain a bluetooth connection betweenthe Redfly and the HTC Touch Pro. Did not have that problem with the Treo800. But cable is fine for now - just glad to be able to use the Redfly again.
  • OK, The Sprint Pro is back on the shelves, the 'FLY β driver is available. It's decision time!
    Do I want the smaller lighter Diamond or do I want the fatter heavier Pro with a keyboard and removable memory card? I?ve had both a Mogul and a Touch, and I like the Touch better, mostly because of size, but also the adequate amount of RAM. I guess that is an indication of what is more important to me.
    Ahhh! I guess I can procrastinate a little longer by asking you guys how well the Diamond/Pro β driver works. Is it as good as the Touch WM 6.1 β?
    What about TouchFlo 3D? Do I need to disable that? Or does the driver do that when I plug it into the 'FLY? If it doesn't, it would seem to me that it should!
  • The driver turns off TouchFLO when it loads. This beta driver works pretty well given the caveats I posted on the beta page on our website. I will have a new build with a few performance tweaks up in less than a week. Then, we will attempt to share a new build every other week or so til it is where we want it. Ultimately we want to support TouchFLO turned on, but I don't have an ETA on that currently.
    I did hope that posting the beta drivers would make some of you happy. But I know the way it works, everyone always wants more. ;-)
    The cool thing is we want to give you all more and if you can stick with us (ie trust us) hopefully we will make it worth your while. :D
    -Laurie
    Director of Engineering
    [COLOR="Red">Celio Corp | REDFLY [/COLOR]
  • I was able to download the beta driver. I had to temporarily change the security settings in IE to get the download to work properly.
    Many things are working nicely with the Touch Pro.
    As mentioned in #4 "known issues", I get no dial pad or screen info on incoming calls.
  • I've had some major problems with the new driver on my ATT Fuze. I will post here (someone from Celio let me know if I should relay feedback through a different channel).
    - after install and reboot, I got lots of red popup 'toasts' about DLLs not loading because they were not signed. It appears that the installer lowered my trust level very low and almost nothing would run without a prompt until I ran a CAB I have to disable security on CABs and DLLs (no prompt).
    - After disconnecting from a Redfly session, TF3D does not alwaysturn back on, and it appears that my menus, email, and today screen are stuck in a different DPI mode. They are too small to use on the device now. Unless someone knows of a way to fix this, I smell a hard reset coming. I can turn on TF3d, but email and menues still require reading glasses on the phone.
    - while on a phone call (using BT headset) and using email, clicking the mouse in the body of a new email kept changing me to the Phone app
    UPDATE: Removing the Redfly software did not fix the odd DPI issue with Todday, Inbox mail list, and context menus.
  • The driver turns off TouchFLO when it loads. This beta driver works pretty well given the caveats I posted on the beta page on our website. I will have a new build with a few performance tweaks up in less than a week. Then, we will attempt to share a new build every other week or so til it is where we want it. Ultimately we want to support TouchFLO turned on, but I don't have an ETA on that currently.
    I did hope that posting the beta drivers would make some of you happy. But I know the way it works, everyone always wants more. ;-)
    The cool thing is we want to give you all more and if you can stick with us (ie trust us) hopefully we will make it worth your while. :D
    -Laurie
    Director of Engineering
    [COLOR="Red">Celio Corp | REDFLY [/COLOR]
    I'm happy, thanks Laurie! :)
    I just need to decide which VGA touch to buy. :rolleyes:
  • It is good to have the Redfly back again as others have mentioned. I have experienced some similar issues with my Sprint Touch Pro, but wanted to raise a few others.
    The font issues are strange, but have been reported previously- if my phone is untethered, then it is a very very small DPI font- barely readable. But when it IS connected, the Redfly displays a giant font and menu bars. Someone referred to it as the Fischer Price look...that takes away a lot of screen real estate, unfortunately. I tried switching themes to no avail- wondering if there is a good tweak utility to adjust the display?
    I only have my 700W to compare, but the display/menu refresh seems slower, even though the Touch Pro is orders of magnitude more powerful. I also feel like the fonts are not very smooth, perhaps since everything is so big? I checked the "Enable Cleartype Support" but that didn't appear to do anything.
    Another question I had is the display of motion video? I have read the disclaimers about how different phones will be more supportable than others...considering that HTC makes a special dongle for video out, is that something that we'll eventually need to buy? Is the Touch Pro / Redfly going to be a good candidate to show off the video streaming capabilities?
    Please take all the questions in stride, and know that I am really excited about the idea of leaving my laptop at home most of the time. User forums tend to focus on mostly negative/constructive feedback, but I want you to know that this has the potential to be revolutionary for me.
    Full steam ahead! (and please look at my questions above!)
  • Hi all,
    I've been playing with my sprint touch pro and redfly drivers for a bit... here are my findings so far:
    -BT connection is hard to maintain (but very cool when it works)
    -When BT connection dies, touch flo doesn't come back. Haven't tried to get it back yet... I've been rebooting.
    -Fonts are huge, but fonts on the touch pro are tiny. This is painful when touch flo 3d doesn't start
    -It is very slow, but I know that will change
    Overall, I'm happy I can show the proof of concept, and I'm looking forward to seeing the improvements. I have also installed the live mesh client, so I'm looking forward to having documents edited on the redfly shared between my work mac, linux desktop and laptops... That's a dream :)
  • Sorry if I came across a bit defensive in my previous post - it's my/our job to make you guys happy--not look for strokes. :o
    @mskovrinskie:
    What you are describing is not normal and we need to investigate what you are seeing with your Fuze. The only thing we do of a "security" nature is to install our cert and there should be nothing we do directly that would cause apps to behave the way you describe. However, we did have one customer on a completely different phone and build have a somewhat similar issue a while ago.
    What we discovered ultimately is that there was another root cause to the signing errors he was getting from apps installed on his phone, but he never saw this behavior until he installed the REDFLY driver. Fundamentally we do a soft reset of the phone to load our video driver and the user in question had never done that before. So when the phone came back up after our install he got many errors as the apps reloaded and checked their own security settings. They were already "bad" before we came along but that was "hidden" until the phone was reset - so it seemed like our install had caused the problem.
    We have a diagnostic app that can go through these settings, enumerate them to an output file so we can review what is going one, as well as put them "back" to what they should be if you haven't already fixed them. But I would like to speak with you about whether what I described is possibly your scenario (how much do you tweak your phone and do you ever reset it?) and what we can do about trying to duplicate your environment to figure this out in the event that our install somehow caused this (as unlikely as I think that is). Please email me directly if you are willing to help us look into this a little deeper.
    -Laurie
    Director of Engineering
    [COLOR="Red">Celio Corp | REDFLY [/COLOR]Laurie@celiocorp.com
  • I've had some major problems with the new driver on my ATT Fuze. I will post here (someone from Celio let me know if I should relay feedback through a different channel).
    - after install and reboot, I got lots of red popup 'toasts' about DLLs not loading because they were not signed. It appears that the installer lowered my trust level very low and almost nothing would run without a prompt until I ran a CAB I have to disable security on CABs and DLLs (no prompt).
    - After disconnecting from a Redfly session, TF3D does not alwaysturn back on, and it appears that my menus, email, and today screen are stuck in a different DPI mode. They are too small to use on the device now. Unless someone knows of a way to fix this, I smell a hard reset coming. I can turn on TF3d, but email and menues still require reading glasses on the phone.
    - while on a phone call (using BT headset) and using email, clicking the mouse in the body of a new email kept changing me to the Phone app
    UPDATE: Removing the Redfly software did not fix the odd DPI issue with Todday, Inbox mail list, and context menus.
    2nd UPDATE: I realized that the odd DPI issue (in other words, small text in email, menus) was due to adjusted text size in Start | Settings | System | Screen | Text Size. It looks like the Redfly Installer adjusted this to Smallest. The default on the Fuze is one notch to the left of Largest.
    Request: Celio developers, please make sure that this is adjusted as you made it to Smallest when the Redfly is connected and that it reverts to the previous setting when disconnected.
  • I also have the font issues, the phone pad no show, and the BT connection problems mentioned in earlier posts.
    Another thing I observed is my phone's performance. It seems to have slowed down a bit even on its own.
    Really like the cleartype support now available under the advanced setting tap.
  • Also getting the small menu font but it doesn't bother me much
    The Redfly will randomly disconnect from blue tooth with an "Invalid Sequence" error message on my Sprint branded Touch Pro
  • Things look pretty good on my end. Aside from the known, I noticed that TouchFlow (TF) did not come back on after disconnecting from BT (works when disconnecting USB). One question: It seems that when the Fly turns off TF at connect, it turns on certain Today features (date, mail, etc.) that are disabled when TF is on. These are then turned off when TF is re-enabled (I think TF does that by itself?). Is it possible to modify the list of features to automatically turn others on? Currently, others can be enabled after connection, but this has to be done every time.
    Thanks and keep up the great work!
  • Hmmmm... a bit of a waste of time. It makes the Today screen fonts smaller (but not the title bar or menu bar fonts), but since the icons don't get smaller, you don't get any more information on the screen.
    Nothing works better than before.
    My menu fonts are now the wrong weight (they don't match the menu bar). I've set them back by hand. (Registry: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\system\gwe\menu\popfnt... set Wt to 800).
    Resco File Explorer has become very confused about column widths... this is the main problem. I've had to re-install Resco to fix this.
    I can't use this if it messes up file explorer. I need to switch back to the old drivers, but they don't seem to be available.
  • I am assuming the Alltel Touch Pro will work with the Sprint beta the same as the Sprint version based on the fact the keyboard layout is the same. The Verizon version has a different keyboard with five rows of ten keys while the pictures I've seen of Sprint and Alltel appear to have the same 5 rows of 12 keys.
    I don't like TouchFlo and don't plan to use it at all if I upgrade prefering to use SPB Pocket Plus as my Today Screen launcher add in since it adds some other nice features to WM 6.1. If I leave Touch Flo off at all times will I likely escape the font change issues that others are experiencing that happen when the Redfly driver turns TF off and then back on again or are they still going to be an issue?
    The Redfly works perfectly with my Alltel 6800 and I'm just a little iffy about upgrading to something that hurts my Redfly experience. But the 64 meg limit on the 6800 limits me to using Opera Mini when browsing so the Touch Pro with tons of memory is tempting to let me use PIE, Opera or Netfront. Cuz
  • Ahhh... I had the old driver... all is well again! I can't downgrade the firmware, but it seems OK.
  • I was just toying with the Touch Pro, didn't really want to spend a fortune with a year left on my 6800 contract to buy it out but since our company uses a lot of phones Alltel decided to throw me a bone and they are sending me a TouchPro as a free upgrade to the PPC 6800. That's good customer service for sure so I am glad there is progress going on with the driver for the Redfly. The TouchPro looks sweet but only if it will work well with the Redfly.
  • This may be a known issue, but I have found that when I am connected to WiFi I can only connect to the internet through Opera once (if I am lucky) and then no more--this is ON THE PHONE W/O REDFLY (it is a known problem when connected to the RedFly--I know). A soft reset may let me connect once B4 a new reset. PIE works fine. If I remove the driver, the phone connects fine through Opera.
  • OK, my bad. :o This is not just a problem with WiFi. I have the problem all around. The driver does not play nice with Opera; whether connected to the redfly or not. This is regardless of WiFi or radio connection.
  • Well, after a few more hours of using the Redfly and Touch Pro, it's definitely usable via USB cable, but currently not usable at all via BlueTooth. In addition to the continuous stream of "Invalid Sequence" errors, the combination of Bluetooth and S2U2 is just not workable.
    If you connect the Touch Pro to the Redfly (or a computer) via USB, S2U2 is disabled automatically (which is what you want), but when you connect via Bluetooth, S2U2 is still active, so you end up with the Redfly screen seemingly locking up, when in fact S2U2 is kicking in (in fact you can see "S2U2" in the upper left corner). S2U2 is waiting for you to swipe the screen on the Touch, but since the touchscreen is turned off when connected to the Redfly, you cannot get past the swipe screen; you have to kill the Bluetooth connection with the Redfly... lather, rinse, repeat.
    In the same way that the Redfly driver knows how to disable Touchflo3D when connecting, and then re-enabling upon exit, it needs to do the same with S2U2.
  • I have been checking the driver site like a psycho for any updates for the Touch Pro. Today I notice that the filename has incremented to RFP6_01040062.CAB...
    ????????????????
    Anybody know if this is new? I'm gonna try here in a few...
    EDIT: I guess if I was *that* much of a psycho, I would have noticed that the ...62 version came out a week ago. LOL! Well, I do notice some differences that TouchFlo somewhat works even when the Fly is plugged in.
    Maybe the bluetooth connectivity is better...time will tell.
  • Hi,
    Are we getting new drivers today? :)
    Anyways, I've started to run into a major issue... if the connection is disconnected in such a way that touchflo3d doesn't come back up, the phone appears ok. The problem is that when I get incomming calls, I can't answer them on the phone. I press the button, but it won't recognize them.
    I also have noticed a few more lockups...
    has anyone seen these issues with the beta drivers?
  • I think I found a solution, in that the S2U2 registry settings allow you to set exceptions, in other words do NOT lock the Touch Pro if a particular .exe is running.
    I believe, if I set the following it should work, but of course I cannot test it. I'm at the point where I am getting Bluetooth disconnects within seconds of the connection with the Redfly, every single [CENSORED] time.
    (Sorry, this Bluetooth issue is frustrating the heck out of me).
    \HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\A_C\S2U2
    ExceptionEXE4=RFP6_01040061.exe
  • Hi,
    Are we getting new drivers today? :)
    Anyways, I've started to run into a major issue... if the connection is disconnected in such a way that touchflo3d doesn't come back up, the phone appears ok. The problem is that when I get incomming calls, I can't answer them on the phone. I press the button, but it won't recognize them.
    I also have noticed a few more lockups...
    has anyone seen these issues with the beta drivers?
    Yes, there are new drivers available. I have not noticed issues with incoming calls--just with Opera Mobile (with or without RedFly). I have had trouble with the phone completely locking up at night (while charging)--to the point of having to remove the battery to get the phone back up (that was with the old driver, don't know about the new one yet).
    I can't say that I am enamored with the TouchFlo on the RedFly (at least not yet); I preferred the Fly turning off TouchFlo; it would be nice if this were a user option in the driver (with the option of what Today screen plugins were turned on by the Fly).
  • I installed the new drivers and it seems faster, but the touchflo3d needs to go or be a lot faster. There should be an option to disable touchflo when connected. I don't really see a need to get the touchflo view when connected. I would not mind the screen that comes up when you open the keyboard... at least that's the right aspect and it is not animated.
    My phone has been locking up at night after charging, so I'm glad I'm not the only one suffering :)
  • You know, the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of having the landscape touchflo view instead of the 3d on when the redfly connects... it is clean and still gives you access to the start menu. Going to the today screen is also an option, so I'll live with either....
    Being able to select the option would be great too, though this is becoming a dedicated driver which I'm assuming celio hates doing for only one phone type.
    I don't see how the touchflo3d is going to work. It's not the right aspect and seems to be a pain in the processor.
  • Being able to select the option would be great too, though this is becoming a dedicated driver which I'm assuming celio hates doing for only one phone type.
    The way these things are flying off the shelves, I'm thinking Celio could survive on just the TP!
    Every time the local store get's any, they sell out the same day! If that's going on nationwide, these could very well be the fabled iPhone killer! :thumbsup:
  • Just a personal observation - I couldn't care less about touchflo with the Redfly. What I do care about a great deal is getting full 800x480 resolution. I hope the driver developers are focused more on that than touchflo. I can disable touchflo myself, but I can't change the resolution.
  • Just a personal observation - I couldn't care less about touchflo with the Redfly. What I do care about a great deal is getting full 800x480 resolution. I hope the driver developers are focused more on that than touchflo. I can disable touchflo myself, but I can't change the resolution.
    Agreed. Right now the Touch Pro/Redfly combination isn't very usable (to be expected, I know, as the drivers are still in Beta, but having experienced the Redfly with my Treo 700wx, I know what it *can* do... just waiting to get there...)
  • Think you have problems? At least you guys/gals can connect! I can't get Redfly to connect to the Fuze at all - keeps telling me to turn on "Advanced Network Settings", which it is. I've tried Beta 61 and 62 - neither work. Actually, I can't even DL either version of the firmware b/c the Redfly won't connect. The Redfly settings (red) button on the unit does nothing - no settings screen - all I ever see on the unit is the splash screen and that blasted erroneous "Can't recognize device - Please turn on Advanced Network Settings" popup.
    Am I the only one here who's seen this problem? I'm all for helping to work out Beta problems being a lifelong early adopter, but not even getting to first base with this thing is frustrating. Been working with Laurie and Troy on this issue, but haven't heard from anyone in a few days, so I came here for help.
    Thinking about returning this brand new C8 and wait for the C8N to drop enough so I can have the video feature to mate with the Fuze.
  • I hope Celio will keep in mind that just making the Redfly play nice with the Touch Pro using tf3d is not quite enough. Please also make sure the drivers work with people that strip TF3D out and just use either WM 6.1 or use another shell such as SPB Mobile Shell or Pocket Plus or many other options. In the pressure to make TF3D please remember that a lot of us are former Mogul/6800 owners that needed more memory and speed but didn't need a friendlier shell. I'll speak for "us" for a second. We need the BT fixed, it drops over and over, rarely did that on the Mogul/6800 but does on the Touch even with TF3D turned off. We need the fonts to switch to very small when the Redfly is on and back to where they were when we disconnect. That's all, basically the drivers work well enough now to be fine, but if those two things were fixed they'd be nearly perfect. Thanks for listening, the Redfly is such a fine device, thanks for making it. Cuz
  • cuzX2
  • My phone has been locking up at night after charging, so I'm glad I'm not the only one suffering :)
    From posts on xda-developers.com, this is a common problem with the TouchPro out of the box, without Redfly drivers installed. I got the same problem. I switched Touchflo off, and the problem stopped. I believe this is a problem with Touchflo.
    I'd recommend anyone with a TouchPro (Redfly attached or otherwise) to switch Touchflo off. It's a bit buggy, and it doesn't add much functionality. You'll lose the weather screen, but you can fall back on the "looking out of the window" technique. :)
  • Think you have problems? At least you guys/gals can connect! I can't get Redfly to connect to the Fuze at all - keeps telling me to turn on "Advanced Network Settings", which it is. I've tried Beta 61 and 62 - neither work. Actually, I can't even DL either version of the firmware b/c the Redfly won't connect. The Redfly settings (red) button on the unit does nothing - no settings screen - all I ever see on the unit is the splash screen and that blasted erroneous "Can't recognize device - Please turn on Advanced Network Settings" popup.
    Am I the only one here who's seen this problem? I'm all for helping to work out Beta problems being a lifelong early adopter, but not even getting to first base with this thing is frustrating. Been working with Laurie and Troy on this issue, but haven't heard from anyone in a few days, so I came here for help.
    Thinking about returning this brand new C8 and wait for the C8N to drop enough so I can have the video feature to mate with the Fuze.
    Just nod if you can here me! (Pink Floyd)
  • Too much turkey...
  • OK, turkey is no longer a valid excuse. My Redfly gets made usable today or it goes back tomorrow. And I never even got a chance to eval it - it could have been a great device for all I know!
  • OK, turkey is no longer a valid excuse. My Redfly gets made usable today or it goes back tomorrow. And I never even got a chance to eval it - it could have been a great device for all I know!
    I'm not sure where you are going with this. Driver development teams are usually not susceptible to ultimatums. I know these guys are working hard and will get the kinks out in time.
    If you believe in the device and trust the development team, you should hang onto hope and wait it out.
  • phildro,
    Wasn't trying to come off harsh. My device does NOTHING - won't connect, won't even pull up it's own settings screen - basically a nice looking brick with a corporate splash screen. I didn't throw out an ultimatum so much as a plea for response from Celio on this dead unit as they had been quiet on this for several days (not including the holiday). They have in fact replied and are shipping out a replacement today, after which I can only hope I will be at the same sticking points as everyone else here and help out with the Beta testing. Laurie and Troy have been very professional through all this, so I hope that level of support continues. Cheers.
    - Ed K.
  • While I really like the Opera 9 version that ships w/ the Sprint phones, it does not yet work with the RedFly drivers (I know, a known issue). My problem is that the default browser on the Sprint phones is Opera, so any time you click on a link it opens Opera. This is not a good thing when using the Fly (and can even cause problems when not connected with the current driver). Does anyone know how to set PIE as the default? There is not an option (that I can find) in the Opera tools menu to "unset" it as the default browser; I guess Sprint removed that (for whatever reason).
  • It's not a Sprint thing... that's how TouchPros come.
    You can change it, but I'm not aware of a standard setting. It involves some registry editing.
    Here's one thread to "Disable opera as default browser".
  • Boy, I sure am Jonesing for a new driver.
  • A new driver was posted today.
    The driver installed fine but I can't get the firmware to update. When connected to my Fuze and I run the firmware CAB, it gets to the next screen and then it disconnects, reconnects, and leaves the RF with the RF white screen and my device with a black screen. I need to soft-reset the phone.
    Anyone else have success with the .64 firmware?
    UPDATE: I could only get the firmware update to work through another phone, an HTC Tytn II. The upgrade went as expected with that device connected.
    I also noticed how much better the RF drivers work on this device as compared to the Fuze/TouchPro. The VGA drivers have a long way to go in terms of video performance and usability. The menu keys and title bar area are normal sized on this older qVGA device as opposed to the Fisher-Price look on the Fuze with the RF.
  • I'm still having trouble connecting on my second RF unit, even after trying Beta .64, so there must be a config issue somewhere. Let me get the obvious out of the way...
    1. YES, I have Advanced Network turned on
    2. YES, my USB cables are working (I have 4), and sync works fine (I got the driver and FW files onto the Fuze and the driver installed on the phone).
    After the FW cab installs on the phone, it then asks you to connect to the RF so it can transfer the FW to it. But the RF never sees the Fuze - it always indicates "Unknown Device - Make sure Advanced Network setting is enabled".
    I've tried everything I can think of to get these two devices to connect - it just ain't happening! Before I give up and ship back to Celio as a lost cause, is there anything anyone here can think of that would prevent a USB connection? I obviously can't connect via BT b/c you need to connect via USB to configure BT. I've spent a huge amount of time just trying to get to first base with this thing. Any constructive suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.Update 12/11: Got the two devices connected finally. Turns out that one or more of the tweaks that I had used (which most of you have used/recommended), had corrupted something in the RNDIS area of the USB port driver. We had to do a master reset to finally determine this vs. a bad USB port. Now the hard part - adding the CABs and tweaks back on one at a time and seeing which one or combination affected this setting (USB-to-PC Advance Network setting, or RNDIS network layer - both related).
  • Installed fine for me on my Sprint TP. Still want a way to disable TF3D upon connecting (and select specific items on the start menu instead).
    Seems better, but some fonts still look like they could be smaller. It's too late to really test, but I like where this is going :)
  • I'm still having trouble connecting on my second RF unit, even after trying Beta .64, so there must be a config issue somewhere. Let me get the obvious out of the way...
    1. YES, I have Advanced Network turned on
    2. YES, my USB cables are working (I have 4), and sync works fine (I got the driver and FW files onto the Fuze and the driver installed on the phone).
    After the FW cab installs on the phone, it then asks you to connect to the RF so it can transfer the FW to it. But the RF never sees the Fuze - it always indicates "Unknown Device - Make sure Advanced Network setting is enabled".
    Are you using the USB cable that came with your Fuze? I've had trouble getting my Sprint TP to connect with a "normal" USB cable. Just a thought.
  • Installed fine for me on my Sprint TP. Still want a way to disable TF3D upon connecting (and select specific items on the start menu instead).
    Seems better, but some fonts still look like they could be bigger. It's too late to really test, but I like where this is going :)
    It would be nice if they would post a revision history so that we could better evaluate the changes (i.e., even know what to look for). The post on the web has not changed from the 61 version...
  • It's not a Sprint thing... that's how TouchPros come.
    You can change it, but I'm not aware of a standard setting. It involves some registry editing.
    Here's one thread to "Disable opera as default browser".
    I have tried a couple of different things and none seem to work. I have read that if I install another version of Opera and then uninstall it, it will set PIE as the default--but then there is no way to get Opera reset as default when the driver (finally) works with 9.5. (I know I can backup and restore or hard reset, but there really seems like there should be an easier option...)
  • It's not a Sprint thing... that's how TouchPros come.
    You can change it, but I'm not aware of a standard setting. It involves some registry editing.
    Here's one thread to "Disable opera as default browser".
    This was not completely satisfying (at least what I tried did not really work--Opera still took over). I read in some of material that if you install another version of Opera (older or the newer beta) that you have two versions on the phone. When you then uninstall the second Opera, it will reset PIE as the default. This is irreversible though--you have to back-up/restore or hard reset to get Opera back as the default (and I think we all are hoping that 9.5 will finally work...) There HAS to be an easier short-term solution...
  • Tested out the new driver on my touchpro. I use PocketBreeze on my today (after removing all other standard MS today stuff) but every time I connect, this driver spends a few seconds to add back calendar, message, clock and task back to my Today which I needed to waste time to remove.
    After connection, it feels quite stable. But the connection time is too long and apparently this new driver has conflicts with other add-ons like Pocketbreeze. Looks like I need to stay with the original old driver a little longer... :(
  • Hmmm... yes, messing about with the today screen is a problem. Better if they left it alone, unless you're running TouchFlo, in which case replace it with some kind of "RedFlo" (something like the landscape TouchFlo).
  • Being a developer myself, I know better than to trivialize a software/firmware task, but I'm wondering what the issue is with getting full resolution with the RedFly and Touch Pro. Windows Mobile supports the 800 x 480 res, so I wonder what makes the Touch Pro so difficult. I say this in a curious developer way, not a derogatory, sarcastic way.
  • Tested out the new driver on my touchpro. I use PocketBreeze on my today (after removing all other standard MS today stuff) but every time I connect, this driver spends a few seconds to add back calendar, message, clock and task back to my Today which I needed to waste time to remove.
    After connection, it feels quite stable. But the connection time is too long and apparently this new driver has conflicts with other add-ons like Pocketbreeze. Looks like I need to stay with the original old driver a little longer... :(
    I have TouchFlo disabled and run SPB mobile shell. I don't seem to have the problem with Today.
  • In reference to setting PIE as default:
    This has not resulted in a satisfactory solution, yet. I read in some further posts that one can install the new 9.5 beta (or an older version of Opera) and then uninstall it--this then sets the default back to PIE. BUT it is irreversible--you have to either do a backup/restore or hard reset to get Opera back as the default (which will hopefully be necessary soon when the Fly works with Opera 9.5;) ). It really seems like there should be an easier solution.
  • BTW, although cable connection is rock stable, the USB connections are still dropping. It seems to take longer to drop, but that may just be wishful thinking.
    Regarding the interface, there really is no need to use touchflo on the redfly... but it has to automatically change back when disconnected (and hopefully remember the previous settings). Since I'm a newbie to windows mobile, I still feel lost without tf3d on the phone, so it is useful to have it, but I always disable when using the redfly. At least make the phone think it's on landscape, then it would automatically switch to the more useful view without the animations...
    Finally, I Agree, changelog would be great.
  • Tested out the new driver on my touchpro. I use PocketBreeze on my today (after removing all other standard MS today stuff) but every time I connect, this driver spends a few seconds to add back calendar, message, clock and task back to my Today which I needed to waste time to remove.
    After connection, it feels quite stable. But the connection time is too long and apparently this new driver has conflicts with other add-ons like Pocketbreeze. Looks like I need to stay with the original old driver a little longer... :(
    UPDATE: I found the reason... it was because I used a custom rom version without Manila (i.e. rom does not have touchflo3D). Now I refreshed the rom with a Manila version and I disabled the touchflo3D and everything seems to be fine. The problem with today seems to have gone away. BT reconnection is a lot more stable and the reconnection is very fast but I need to test it for a few more days to report back. So far so good... :)
  • Being a developer myself, I know better than to trivialize a software/firmware task, but I'm wondering what the issue is with getting full resolution with the RedFly and Touch Pro. Windows Mobile supports the 800 x 480 res, so I wonder what makes the Touch Pro so difficult. I say this in a curious developer way, not a derogatory, sarcastic way.
    The TouchPro is not really a problem... in the sense that, I am using a TouchPro with a RedFly, and they work perfectly together.
    Opera 9.5 is a problem, because it draws directly to the screen. It by-passes the operating system and, in doing so, by-passes the RedFly driver.
    The problem with huge fonts... applications are just not built to cope with font-sizes suddenly changing. Especially applications that are already running (like the Today screen). Even if they could cope, all the artwork for icons is too big (like the Windows logo for the start-menu, for example). Hence you get the "Fisher Price" look.
    If I understand right, the Sprint branded variant doesn't work at all with the old drivers. Why that is, I have no idea. But Celio seem to have that fixed.
    I'm afraid that solving the "Fisher Price" issue, without reducing application compatibility, will be extremely difficult (and might not be possible).
  • Did a bunch of testing of .64 drivers on my touch pro during my 3 hour drive today (i wasn't driving)...
    Anyways, other than the wasted space because of large fonts, the cable connection worked fairly well. I was not able to properly use google maps with gps enabled, but I assume that's because of all the redraws. Google maps worked fine without the gps functionality.
    On the other hand, the bluetooth connection sucked. It dropped all the time and even refused to come back once...
    Looking forward to a driver update sometime this week :)
    Art
  • Are you using the USB cable that came with your Fuze? I've had trouble getting my Sprint TP to connect with a "normal" USB cable. Just a thought.
    Lynn,
    Alas, yes - I have about 6 USB cables now, and none of them allow a connection to the RF. The OEM cable is weak at the connector, doesn't always allow a sync. My new ones are nice and solid, perfect syncs. I wasn't aware that there might be anything special abou the OEM cable. But, to rule it out, I'll retry again with the OEM cable.
    Anyone have a better idea just what that "Advanced Network" setting is on the USB connection page? That is the RF's complaint, though the RF doesn't seems to work regardless of that setting. Just wondering (can't test now), if the RF doesn't work, I wonder if the cellular modem will work - it uses RNDIS, which is part of the Advanced Network setting, and if there are special pins on that connector for such connections, it may not work either, even though Sync does. Just a thought - I'm beaten senseless by this thing and am about to give up.
    I've been waiting for a tweaker out there to give me a tip that some setting may be wrong on the Fuze, but nothing comes, either from Celio support or this forum! It looks like my best course of action a this point is to return both units for a refund and try again later. :-(
    - Ed K.
  • The revision notes for HTC regarding the v.64 beta driver on the Celio site state:
    The dialpad display on incoming phone calls does not render properly the first time it is loaded, and on subsequent uses has some visual anomalies. (Note: This was resolved with build 64.)
    However, I've been using the .64 updates on my sprint touch pro. With incoming calls, I notice the dialpad screen no longer becomes garbled, but it doesn't show anything. The display doesn't change other than the Left Soft button changing to "Send Text".
    If I manually lauch the Phone application during an incoming call, the dialpad does display, but showing only half of the dialpad.
    Bluetooth still seems to drop frequently.
  • The TouchPro is not really a problem... in the sense that, I am using a TouchPro with a RedFly, and they work perfectly together.
    Opera 9.5 is a problem, because it draws directly to the screen. It by-passes the operating system and, in doing so, by-passes the RedFly driver.
    The problem with huge fonts... applications are just not built to cope with font-sizes suddenly changing. Especially applications that are already running (like the Today screen). Even if they could cope, all the artwork for icons is too big (like the Windows logo for the start-menu, for example). Hence you get the "Fisher Price" look.
    If I understand right, the Sprint branded variant doesn't work at all with the old drivers. Why that is, I have no idea. But Celio seem to have that fixed.
    I'm afraid that solving the "Fisher Price" issue, without reducing application compatibility, will be extremely difficult (and might not be possible).
    I still don't get why my HTC Titan on WM 6.1 worked perfectly without the Fisher Price issue, but the Touch Pro proves to be so different. It can't be a problem inherent in the OS or the applications since the "same OS" and same applications worked fine with the RedFly and Titan. I know WM is heavily customized for each device with all sorts of complicated drivers, so saying the same OS is a bit of an exaggeration.
  • Both suggestions on this thread:http://forums.wmexperts.com/showthread.php?t=174469
    work well. The realVGA seems to work better since it also gives you correct icons. Only downside is a soft reset it required to switch to the higher res.
  • I picked up the HTC Touch Pro (Verizon Model) on Saturday. I had emailed Celio before I picked up the phone and they said to try the Sprint model beta drivers on it.
    I downloaded the Sprint drivers, flashed my RedFly (everything successful), went to connect the phone for the first time and nutt'n. It gets hung on the "waiting for phone" and times out.
    I did have it paired with my old Treo 700w (VZW model) before this and it worked perfectly.
    Anyone have any thoughts?
  • OK, I have the latest driver on my TouchPro, Alltel version, same as Sprint's. Also I have TF3D turned off, always. I use Pocket Plus as my Today Screen add in. I also use S2U2 but turn it off manually before connecting the Redfly.
    Here are the remaining issues:
    1) Bluetooth will not stay connected for more than a few seconds at worst to a few minutes at best, it is basically so flakey at maintaining a connection as to be unusable. The cable works fine though.
    2) WiFi keeps turning itself off when the Redfly is connected. It is very random and unrepeatable but I will have to go to the comm mgr and turn the wifi radio back on four or five times in an hour session when I am on wifi rather than 3G(which is at home in my case).
    3)My contextual menus keep getting the font reset which requires me to use a registry editor to put them back large enough to see well when the Redfly is not in use and I am using the phone's screen.
    4)Not a defect but a "feature". The fonts appropriate in WM and the zoom level in PIE appropriate for a 2.8 inch VGA screen are not appropriate for an 8 inch 800 by 450 res screen. I find myself opening the Screen settings everytime I hook up my Redfly and then adjusting the zoom settings on PIE everytime I browse with it on the Redfly. It would be jiffy keen if the Redfly driver let you save some Redfly preferences on fonts and zoom levels for when the Redfly was hooked up and then restored the original or some set of user default preferences when the Redfly was disconnected. Seems fairly simple and in keeping with the rest of Celio's philosophy.
    Even with these issues the Redfly is a dream, if you could fix the Bluetooth that's the main thing. If you address 2,3 or 4 above even better but Bluetooth is great in airports where you don't have a good place to set both a phone and a Redfly that are tethered together. And having that leash between them is just a good way to get either the shiny shiny expensive phone or the Redfly dropped onto a hard floor. My Bluetooth worked awesomely well on my Mogul so surely this can be done, all my other BT headsets and gadgets work just as well on the TP as they did on the Mogul? Cuz.
  • I still don't get why my HTC Titan on WM 6.1 worked perfectly without the Fisher Price issue, but the Touch Pro proves to be so different. It can't be a problem inherent in the OS or the applications since the "same OS" and same applications worked fine with the RedFly and Titan. I know WM is heavily customized for each device with all sorts of complicated drivers, so saying the same OS is a bit of an exaggeration.
    Titan is a QVGA device, right? Because QVGA and VGA screens are about the same (3") size, pixels on the QVGA screen are larger. This is the DPI issue that RealVGA attempts to fix.
    A QVGA screen (and a RedFly screen) are about 96dpi... the Redfly just has more pixels. So everything looks fine.
    A VGA screen is about 192dpi. Because the dpi is double, the phone has to draw fonts twice the size. The phone doesn't know that the dpi drops when you plug the RedFly in, so it carries on drawing huge fonts.
    This fix would be to change the dpi setting, like RealVGA does. The downside, as you know from using RealVGA, is that applications will not handle this mid-session, and the device needs to be rebooted.
    Possibly, some bright spark will figure out how to re-start just enough of what's running, without re-starting the entire operating system. If it's possible, this might be faster, but not seamless. And you would lose some application compatibility, because applications would not necessarily have image resources of the right size (with RealVGA, you have to install a resource pack, so that standard apps like Outlook work properly).
  • New drivers/firmware are up again at http://www.celiocorp.com/install/beta/ bringing the version to 1.4.0.67. I'm afraid to try it because the past few versions have changed the font sizes permanently in my menus. Has anyone tried this version on a VGA device?
  • So far so good with .67
    Bluetooth was way stable. Was not able to crash it in my short testing (~10 min)(but I could usually crash the other versions within 30 secs). TF3D is now disabled again, but I think that's the better decision. This won't be much of a problem if it doesn't crash as much, since the drivers re-enable it after a disconnect.
    Was not able to use the camera while connected, but I guess that's expected. Would have been cool to take self-pics while looking at the redfly screen :)
  • I tried out the new .67 driver on a touch pro. Haven't noticed any difference so far... other than the reconnection time becomes very long. Now it takes 15-20 secs to reconnect once BT is lost and the cleartype selection no longer seems to do anything.
    It is really sad that Celio does not know how to manage all these new driver development and they don't even log and inform us the changes. Mskovrinskie's comment clearly reflects how the redfly community feels at this point: lack of confidence. Not sure how long Celio can hold on to the current group of users before they throw in the towel... :(
  • I'm pleased with the update. I agree that BT is much more reliable- in fact this is the first driver with a workable bluetooth stack.
    But in the quest for continuous improvement, I have some feedback:
    * Incoming calls display now, but the screen takes a long time to draw, so its tough to screen callers since I can't see who's calling.
    * Screen drawing is slow in a number of ways, like typing emails and text messages. I am usually typing ahead of what I can see on the screen.
    * Still hoping to see an update from Opera Mobile to make it work. Does anyone have a date when Opera 9.5 goes GA? I am experimenting with Netfront and like that much better than PIE, although I'm looking for the scroll bar.
    * Wondering if Celio plans to bring the TF3D back eventually? If so, I hope that the landscape version of the home screen with the eight square buttons could be used, instead of the portrait/clock screen. It is much better sized to the aspect of the Fly's screen. Thoughts?
    * I've been experimenting with getting more from the Today landing page, and put in the desktop background. I also found the "Task" utility from HTC so that I can kill apps directly from the home screen without TF3D enabled.
    The enable/disable procedure for TF3D is still pretty unreliable. Hope this gets better.
    As always, thanks for all the hard work in driver development.
  • In one word, terrific. The font thing seems totally fixed. Every app has the tiniest fonts automatically set when the Redfly is connected then goes back to the default ones when you disconnect, that's very sweet. Bluetooth is much better, seems perfect as long as you stay in one app, like Opera Mini on the Fly but still flakey if you are jumping around multiple apps, much better and probably usable now though.
    One word of caution. I COULD NOT INSTALL following instructions. My Alltel TouchPro locked up five times in a row. The only way I could get it to work was to reinstall 64, then install the 67 phone driver, then install the 67 firmware with the phone DISCONNECTED from the Redfly and then not connecting until that second "NEXT" screen came up that asks to be sure your phone is really connected, if I waited until then to connect my phone it worked. If doing it connected from the start locks up your phone like it did mine then try this as an alternate plan, worked for me. This driver is sweet, thanks Celio guys, could still use a little Bluetooth tweaking but this is very close to the Mogul driver now. Cuz
  • Just downloaded the 67 drivers for my HTC Diamond and did not notice much of a difference.
    I have two main issues at the moment.
    1. Font on the today screen is so big it does not show all of the options in the drop down Start menu. Specifically can't select Programs or Settings.
    Internet Explorer is pretty bad as well. Between the Start Bar, the URL entry bar and the bottom menu bar, I probably lose 1/3 of the screen real estate.
    2. Responsiveness is quite slow. If I hover the mouse over one of the entries in the Start menu and then move to the next entry, it takes almost 2 seconds to highlight the next entry.
    How are other people finding these two issues on their Diamonds?
    Thanks,
    Michael
  • A lot of folks have complained about losing screen real estate with the "Fisher Price" effect. I have been playing with RealVGA and have had good results with it.
    I encourage you to check it out for yourselves, but I recommend getting the modules built for the Epix, else your contacts and other things will not work properly.http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=327830&page=63
    The upside is that when tethered, my Fly renders the Touch Pro menus in a much better proportion to the screen, giving you lots more room to browse, edit, whatever. I would even say that the connection *FEELS* quicker when connecting the Fly, perhaps because it is easier to render the 96DPI?
    Maybe I'm dreaming. Oh well, now for the downside:
    When you disconnect from the Fly and just use the phone directly, the menus are so small that you can barely see them. A lot of finger action goes away and it even becomes tough to poke things accurately with the stylus-- so small.
    The good news is that most things can be done via TF3D and that is the same size. Its only when you get into WinMo proper that you feel like Ralph in The Mouse and the Motorcycle.
    I can live with a quick soft reset to restore the regular font size if I'm going untethered for a while.
    Try it for yourself-- for those who are complaining of huge menus, you'll like RealVGA (with the EPIX settings)...
    Good luck!
  • .7 is out but seems the same as .67. I can't find anything that changed. Bluetooth is just as flakey and unusable. Opera and Skyfire still won't run. Fonts are still working better but .67 already had that working. And for some reason my wifi turns itself off when I switch apps or just at random, not just lose the connection but the radio turns itself off, all by itself. Very irritating and never happens when the Redfly is disconnected, am I alone in having the problem? I live in a fringe area so I use wifi at home, pretty much use the Evdo or RevA everywhere else. Cuz
  • When you disconnect from the Fly and just use the phone directly, the menus are so small that you can barely see them. A lot of finger action goes away and it even becomes tough to poke things accurately with the stylus-- so small.
    Good luck!
    How do you get the menu sizes back? I removed the Redfly driver and reset my device and the menus are still miniature.
  • Anyone else here running Herg's excellent modified HTC Black theme with Landscape TF3D (yes, Landscape TF3D!!!)? Awesome look and feel if you like TF3D (I know some here don't - that's cool too).
    Anyway, with the theme loaded, the home screen on RF shows the icons on the left as usual, but no text (either white on white or invisible). The hot spots are still there, so the functions still work, and appear properly with the select highlight when tapped. Just on the Home screen - all others seem fine.
    Also, the white text on light grey legend bars at the bottom are very hard to read, and this is on all relevant screens (not an artifact of the theme I - I believe this was like this before).
    Other than that, all functions seem to work fine with this theme loaded. If you liked the original HTC Black theme and gave it up due to misc. problems, Herg and friends (over at XDA) have done an outstanding job on this theme - much work went into making it work and look good, with quite a few user suggested features added and beta tests run to most everyone's satisfaction before GA.
    C'mon Celio - pony up and do the same!
    (still running Beta .64)
    - Ed K.
  • Ed K.,
    Can you post a link to that theme? I'll give it a shot. A cursory Google search isn't giving me much.
    Thanks,
    Lynn
  • Lynn,
    The link to the topic is on the XDA Developers forum - you 'll need to set up a login (free). http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=447056
    If the link doesn't work, it is thread "xda-developers > Raphael > Raphael software > [THEME]12/23/08 Fuze Flip Clock V7 (Including Landscape TF3D)" on http://forum.xda-developers.com.
    There are currently 51 pages in this thread - a very popular theme and active user group. Link to the actual file by hitting the "FOUND HERE on Mediafire" link in Blue. there are a few lingering issues that they are working on, even today, but the theme rocks.
    Good luck and hope you like it.
    - Ed K.
  • What a nice Christmas present from the Redfly driver team, finally after weeks of not being able to use bluetooth with my Alltel (CDMA) Touch Pro and the Redfly it now seems rock solid. How solid? Well, I have been on almost 30 minutes and checked email, clicked through to web links, surfed and waded into WMExperts forum to post this on PIE which is not a good browser for this site on this phone, molasses speed, but not one invalid sequence, dropped link, stutter, freeze, it is just as solid or more so than my old Mogul was, sweet.....
    Now I assume this is due solely to the driver but someone else will need to confirm, I have also tweaked the living daylights out of this phone over the holidays and it is possible I suppose that one of the many registry changes got rid of something that was my problem, but my guess is this will solve everyone's BT connection issues, sure hope so anyway. My other pet peeve is that the Redfly driver used to kick me off wifi, actually turn the radio off somehow, every few minutes. That is a problem at home where my cell signal stinks but not anywhere else since Rev A is just as fast and is available most everywhere in the world it seems except in my home. I will test that feature tonight, with any luck they got that one too. Great job Redfly techs, Happy New Year! Cuz
  • Fortunately this isn't a deal breaker but I still have a problem with the wifi radio on the touch pro turning itself off constantly when the RedFly is connected via bluetooth to the phone. When I use the usb cable it seems to maybe have gone away with the .72 driver or at least it is infrequent but since I can only use wifi at home due to my rural address I will have to cable up to Redfly. I tried several things, like locking my phone to 1X instead of letting it switch to evdo. It gets a lousy signal at my home so it is constantly seeking and the wifi would drop when the phone would switch radios I noticed. Well it stopped that of course when I locked it to 1X but no help cause when I would launch any app or even switch web sites it would also turn off the wifi radio. I have never had it happen unless the Redfly is connected, and now only seems to be frequent when the Redfly is Bluetooth connected to the Touch Pro. At least when I am in a hotel or airport now and want to check a quick email or website I won't have to cable up and at home it isn't a big deal but is a slight nuisance, help Redfly techs, surely there is an easy fix? Cuz