Microsoft responds in detail to Google’s blocking of YouTube; cites HTML5 and unfair treatment
Last night, Windows Phone Central broke the news about the new Microsoft branded YouTube app essentially breaking. We investigated the problem and concluded that it was due to a revoked developer key. Such a scenario could only happen if Microsoft forgot to update it or if Google yanked it.
That latter situation implies that Google did not authorize the app and was taking direct action of their own by disabling the video player on all Windows Phones. Indeed, just a few hours ago this was confirmed when Microsoft said as much in a note to the press.
Now, David Howard, Corporate Vice President & Deputy General Counsel at Microsoft, has taken to TechNet, Microsoft’s blog on legal and public policy. Needless to say, the nearly 1000 word statement is chock full of information and more details on the matter, making an excellent read.
HTML5, branding and unfair requests
Presenting Microsoft’s side, which of course is expected to be biased towards themselves, Howard finally gives the details behind the current situation with Google.
It’s noted that for a few years now, Microsoft has been striving for a comparable YouTube experience that is found on the iPhone and Android—something for which we see as reasonable. Redmond reiterated that claim earlier this year soon after Windows Phone 8 launched. Google, however, was reportedly not willing to share certain data with Microsoft on to make that happen. As a result, up until April 2013, Microsoft had a much inferior YouTube experience.
This past spring, Microsoft released their version of a YouTube app and it was very well received by the community. However, Google took issue with it and asked that it be removed. Microsoft obliged with the condition that they can work with Google to release an app of comparative performance with their competitors (iOS and Android).
Microsoft agreed to Google’s terms and in version 3.2 of the YouTube app, released earlier this week, they had enabled Google’s advertisements, disabled video downloads and eliminated the ability for users to view reserved videos.
But there was evidently one more thing Google wanted: the app to be coded in HTML5.
Microsoft notes that this was an unusual request since iOS and Android are currently not encoded in HTML5 and moreover, after investigating whether it could be done both companies agreed that making an HTML5 app would be technically difficult and time consuming (and perhaps that was Google’s intent).
This was the breaking point as Microsoft decided to release the non-HTML5 version of the app with the intention of returning to the matter later with Google.
Other lingering issues
Other problems that Google cites are ads “based on conditions imposed by content creators” aren’t always displayed. Microsoft claims that they need more data for this, something for which Google reportedly won’t share.
Finally, Google evidently now has a problem with the branding i.e. it seems like an official Google app when it’s made by Microsoft. Another reason is that according to Google, this new app provides a “degraded experience”, something for which most users have not objected too, making it vacuous.
Where to next?
It is clear Microsoft is ratcheting up the PR war by releasing this statement. From their perspective, Google has set prejudicial requirements for Windows Phone that iOS and Android are not obliged to meet. To that end, especially the request for the app to be in HTML5, it does seem that Google here is behaving rather dishonestly.
However, we should note that Google has yet to go into as much detail and surely they have their side as well. Regardless, this dispute has clearly crossed a line and Windows Phone users are suffering at their expense.
Source: TechNet (opens in new tab)
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Daniel Rubino is the Editor-in-chief of Windows Central, head reviewer, podcast co-host, and analyst. He has been covering Microsoft since 2007 when this site was called WMExperts (and later Windows Phone Central). His interests include Windows, laptops, next-gen computing, and for some reason, watches. Before all this tech stuff, he worked on a Ph.D. in linguistics, watched people sleep (for medical purposes!), and ran the projectors at movie theaters because it was fun.
FUCK GOOGLE THEY FREAKING SUCK. :)
Not MetroTube,Tube Pro or whatever. Google are just be an ass about this.
FUCK GOOGLE THEY ARE FREAKING SUCK!
GOOGLE .......YOU NEVER HAD ANY QUALITY.....NOW YOU DONT EVEN HAVE REPUTATION...!
At least there is MyTube and MetroTube
Both company hate each other. Microsoft always bully Google services(e.g.- Privacy)
I don't know why Microsoft come-up with those apps which always violates Google terms and condition and give them chance to block. and where as Google just need a reason to do this.
Google is not going to make apps unless WP get resonable market shares.
So, I see this is fault from both Microsoft and Google for this mess.
and we as WP users have to suffer.
Still Google search engine is loved by everyone holding approx 90% market share. Google beat Microsoft almost in every service which provided by both companies.....Smartphone OS, Search Engine, browser etc..... I am still saying that its both companies fault. Both companies hate each other so much that they don't want to see there existence. Microsoft always build app which violates Google terms and conditions and Google always going to ban for this.
And we as WP users have to suffer for this
I've switched Bing, good for 90% of my searches, the more in the weeds technical searches I still use google.
They aren't better or worse, but for my needs I don't have a pressing NEED for google services. I still use the email, but I never was a big personal email user, so I can take or leave what ever free email I can get.
Google Search engine is far better than Bing, I used Bing and leave it. Because search results aren't good as Google search engine neither the presentation of data.
Lets take other services like
YouTube vs. Bing Video
Gmap vs. Bing Map
Android vs. Window Phone
All above services Google beat Microsoft by very large margin.
Because Microsoft have a habit of not listening to customers and they provide what they want not what the user want and they are very slow on that too.
And MS "not listening to customers"? Are you kidding? I have never seen a company be as responsive to customers as MS has been recently with the XBox One, basically, reversing position on many of their initial plans due to customer feedback.
In contrast, Google makes money from advertisers, not from paying users, which means they don't give a crap about us as end-users, as long as the experience isn't so bad that we stop using them completely. Google is a vile company.
Unfortunately, YouTube, Google Earth, and a few other apps have no equal (at least that I know about), so we go to Google for those. I hope this babyish behavior of rejecting the app and refusing to offer their own causes MS to offer than own alternative to YouTube or some other company to step into the gap.
All I am saying about market shares .
Sorry, to say but Microsoft don't listen to customer......I said this specially for WP.
GDR2 and 3 are full of craps features. We as WP users need basic features which are missing on WP.(Auto-rotate screen on/off option, better brightness control(since battery back-up isn't good), centralised notication etc)
Where as what did microsoft provide -data sense..totally crap.
I don' t know how it is more useful that those basic features.
They might provide some feature in WP blue but ......wait is too long. Microsft intentionally launch half baked OS and they have habbit of provideing those features very slow or might not provide at all.
I would prefer Microsoft work on certain things, but they know best where they are heading and how they can get there. It would be a fools arrand to attempt to appease everyone and as the XBox One fiasco has shown, listening to customers isn't always the proper course of action.
This has all been well-covered on this site.
Therefore, I don't believe it's reasonable to conclude that MS is not working as hard or fast as it can, albeit slower than many of us would like, to add key features to is fledgling OS that address the needs of its customers, even its current customers (more scale means more apps).
I'm honestly asking because I don't know for sure.
Google is making BS excuses to cover up the truth, otherwise they would be blocking those other OS' because they don't use HTML5 either.
Never did, never will.
Yes, I said that for all to read.
Your "never did, never will" is just so a-hole!
Yes, I said that for all to read.
After all, I just took his troll comment and turned against him, 'cause someone who uses Windows Phone really doesn't have much moral to talk about Linux desktop market share....
All users can access it through browsers, and it's not an 'essential' part of any OS/mobile OS.
over that there are dozens of unofficial youtube client already in WP market. google didn't stop them even though most of them are violating google's TOS.
It's not an essential part of the OS and there is Explorer and Firefox to replace it. But if that were to happen, what do you think Google would say?
Unfortunately, Google can easily afford whatever they would be ordered to pay if a judge found them guilty, and they know it. In the meantime they are hurting the winphone platform which is much more valuable to them in the long run.
2). FUD... Really?? Like Samsung paying people to scour other non-samsung device forums and troll people?
And before you take that particular stance look up google's patent violations and why Microsoft and Apple (mainly Steve Jobs) were gunning for them so hard.
Google will pay a HUGE penalty because of breaking the antitrust laws
I think US of A should pay special notice on the privacy issues, too.
Privacy should be only broken by CIA, not a private co.
That should be constitutional
They may be violating anti-trust laws by blocking MS like this (not clear on the facts with this yet), but that's a whole different issue.
Lets see if we can get their attention with this:
What Google did is a perfect analogy of what Microsoft could’ve done but not allowed to do due to antitrust regulation. Google, in order to sabotage the wp platform, it leverages one of its monopoly product (youtube web service), and intentionally create a sub-par youtube experience on wp platform (by not developing a youtube app for wp, AND not publishing necessary API’s to allow Microsoft create a substitute app). It doesn’t matter what excuse google uses, the intention is loud and clear: Google would do whatever it takes, whether it’s unethical or even illegal, to stop wp, or any Microsoft platform, from having a youtube experience on-par with any other platform can offer. It’s clear that Google doesn’t care the consumer experience of the wp users, and they don’t even care their youtube content creator’s value.
Or, Microsoft can take a simpler approach. What if MS offers an OS level ad blocker that blocks all Google ads, or all online ads? Would that pretty much kill Google all together? OK, Microsoft may also lose their own ads business, but if they go into a full-fledged war, which seems to be what Google wants, it’s not a bad deal for Microsoft. I know what you’re thinking. No, it doesn’t necessarily trigger antitrust law suit, as 1) Microsoft doesn’t really block Google service. Users can still use google search, youtube, gmail, most likely with a better experience. And 2) Microsoft can make it user configurable. But I’m not sure, other than the diehard google fan boys, how many users would be willing to unblock the ads.
We then went a head and setup some windows 8 pc's that the company wanted and they bought office 2013 with them and we could not get the Google sync installed and again the said that the software dose not work with outlook 2013 and they don't have a way of fixing the issue but they have said if the customer upgrades to 2013 office pro it will work. Now I can't work out why that would make a difference. In the end we ended up moving them over to office 365 and since then we have not had any issues. For me Microsoft get a lot of stick on the web but I have tried all the other Systems out there and every time I've fond my self falling back to Microsoft Systems as the support is always good and for me anyway there devices just work and work well together for what I need them for. I hope Microsoft and Google can get this sorted out but I am starting to find my self using YouTube less and less and it would be funny if someone managed to take the market away from them over the next few years but I don't see it happening.
Calling Google anticompetitive for not making a YouTube app for Windows Phone is like calling Microsoft anticompetitive for not making a SkyDrive sync tool for Linux. Both companies chose not to support operating systems that have a small marketshare. It sucks for users of those operating systems, but it's not anticompetitive. There's no law that says you have to make software for every platform out there.
If was just Google did not wanting to do an app, it was fine, but Google does not let Microsoft creates and YouTube app.
Just imagine Microsoft blocking the Google Chrome in Windows because it was not done using Delphi.
Or someone doing an SkyDrive for Linux and Microsoft ban it because the app wasn't pretty.
This treatment of Google is a lost-lost deal, but Microsoft lost more on this. Google prefers to have less Ad than lost users of Android to Microsoft.
And, for the last, it can be an antitrust action because Google is using a service to monopoly another one. And just remember, there is no “Low range” IOS, but there are plenty of “Low range” Windows Phone.
Thanks for calling me stupid though. It really added a lot to the conversation.
You think if Google wrote a program for Chrome that worked just like Office and named it "Office" Microsoft wouldn't get upset and demand it be shut down?
That said, I think MS has intentionally engaged in this battle to highlight issues with Google. They do something for their customers that Google refuses to do and Google lashes out. Google's chief also has lashed out at MS for including Google Talk capability in Outlook, even though they made the API public and encouraged it.
One problem is Bing, which has been growing its search share. Another is Outlook.com, an equal to Gmail, and the big one is Office, the juggernaut that Google is trying to make inroads against (Forbes reported at the beginning of this year that Office still controlled 95% of the productivity market). Truth is, Google isn't all that good at converting things from Office and wants greater access to that market because it'll give them more data to sell to advertizers since that is pretty much what Google does.
So they lash out where they can.
I expect them to also lash out at Samsung when they ditch Android for Tizen and attempt to break Google apps for Android's functionality on Tizen.
I can tell you from sources inside the industry, everyone HATES Google, but they need them for now. However, they see a time coming when Google will get theirs.
So why specifically lash out at Windows Phone beyond the other issues? Because you want to thwart growth. Samsung will abandon Android, but not WP. A growing WP8 user base may move more manufacturers over, limiting Android's own growth (actually, Samsung leaving guarantees a massive implosion). You can bet that MS would like to aggressively woo others to the platform. A problem for now is the benefits that Nokia reaps, but those benefits are necessary for the platform to grow. Even so, Android without Samsung, without the bleed effect from them, will be a shrinking platform, not a growing one. Eventually only Moto might be left if the cards can be played right.
IzaacJ on XDA/Twitter/WPStore/everywhere else so... Yeah, MetroTube DOES work.
But maybe it is time to try again? Integrate the 360 and One DVR, WP, surface, and iOS with it. Maybe it will get traction on attempt 2.
That said, yes, it's time for them to make a competing service again. I think it could work if they bought out Vimeo and gave it a new paint job (and a new Terms of Service).
- Typed in Google Chrome.
For the time being FUCK YOU BUNCH OF BASTARDS AT GOOGLE, FACEBOOK & INSTAGRAM for not creating or not letting create an offical WP8 apps. However, Unofficial apps of all 3(FB, Instagram & Youtube) are better than official as they allow us to *Download* the videos or images! So in a double meaning Fuck you!!
Update: just tested the download feature and its working as well, so ya, as of this posting supertube seems to be fully functional, which is good since its my favorite you tube app Update2 my mytube app will only play 1 vid, then error after that
I use Gmail. A lot. I like Gmail. A lot. I also use and like YouTube a lot. However, I also like Microsoft and Nokia a lot. Google has set it up so that I can't properly use Google services on Microsoft's operating system or the phones that Nokia makes for that operating system.
I can, however, use a lot of Microsoft services on Google's mobile operating system Android. Microsoft is currently supporting Android in a way that would let me switch to Android and keep using a lot of the Microsoft services that I love (Skype, SkyDrive, etc.)
I love WP. I really do. But Google's tactics are working on me and I think my next phone may be an Android phone. I don't want to switch to Outlook.com. I don't want to miss out on YouTube and other Google apps. I want my phone to work properly and I want services like Gmail and YouTube to work properly on that phone.
Honestly, the only things keeping me on Windows Phone right now are Xbox Music Pass and Nokia. However, it's starting to look like the Nokia phone that I really want (the Lumia 1020) might not even come to Canada any time soon. That's yet another issue for me.
There are just so many roadblocks and difficulties that I'm facing as a Windows Phone user right now. Switching to Android just seems so much easier. I'm sick of battling.
Sorry for the long comment.
Sadly, my workplace only allows searching with google, all sites related to work (gsmarena, retail stores, manufacturers) and wikipedia + google are allowed, everything else is blocked by proxy. Sadly, bing is included in all that blocked stuff.
Only "basic" thing I want MSFT to improve now is desktop IE (ModernUI works fine). At work, our main system (Oracle Siebel) crashes 90% of the time, works fine in all other browsers except Chrome.
That is all...
Get your friends and family on board. Start a Facebook / Twitter / Instagram movement. Use Firefox, IE Opera, Safari on the desktop ANYTHING but google chrome.
Remove all the office,skype and other support from android and chrome os
Dont need to remove office and Skype... but give error while installing chrome, while using gmail, and google services.. just say it is OS bug. lets seee what happens.
The answer is to create a better platform than youTube. It's so over. It looks and smells like it was designed in the MySpace. era. It demands replacement.
So if we all have to choose, there's no point in choosing Google. RIP.
What is their incentive to stop using YouTube? Why would they NOT watch all the content that is on YouTube? Why would they even TRY something else, when all the content is on YouTube already?
I don't specifically know the situation in China you are talking about, but it wouldn't surprise me if the government had a hand in it one way or another... but in the US I don't see any way to stop YouTube unless they introduce something that is so unpaletable to the average viewer that it drives them to alternatives.
The only FACT here is that Google is clearly biased against Microsoft...kinda nice to see that Google views Windows Phone as a big enough threat to resort to such shameless tricks...
You can only set up a Google account.
#pureevil needs to be started as a label for Scroogle. Just like Larry Ellison said they were.
But this just makes it plainly retarded.
I really wish there was an alternative to Youtube. A GOOD alternative.
1. Buy up some up and coming EA and Gameloft titles, I'm thinking, the most hyped up games -- e.g. Asphalt 8, Modern Combat 5, Real Racing 4, etc. Release them on Windows Phone, Windows, iOS, Xbox One -- skip out Android.
2. Stop updating the Android Skype app, beyond basic repairs.
3. Try buying up Flipboard Inc, and take it off Android (except for Kindle, let's just F with them).
4. Stop licensing Windows Phone, make it free to all OEMs, but be extra aggressive about patent fees on Android.
5. Identify start-ups with lots and lots of potential and promise, buy them up, the next FB/Twitter/Flipboard/Vine/Instagram will be among them.
Or, preferably, Microsoft could totally continue doing it this way and make a statement that says "THIS is how you treat your users! Not the Scroogle way!"
That would hopefully do some difference if that would spread to all major techsites.
Google has no reason to insist Microsoft develops the app in HTML5, when their apps are native. No HTML5 app on any platform that supports it has comparable performance to a native code version, a point proven by Facebook last year when they ditched their HTML5-based app on Android and replaced it with a native code version. I used Android at the time and, needless to say, the performance difference was night and day.
The advertising issues are beyond Microsoft's control. They've had to reverse engineer the APIs as it is, if Google just gave them the data it would be fine. Plus bear in mind that even in its incomplete state, Google are receiving ad revenue via the WP app, something which Microsoft implemented at their own expense!
As for the trademark complaint and performance... the old web bookmark with vastly inferior performance was okay, then?
Bye bye google.
I think ms figured the app would be ready to go weeks after, but google pretty much just bait and switched them and forced their hand to release.
I dont think google had any intentions to make this easy for MS at all.
Still, I agree, Google is evil and we really need a Microsoft replacement.
Google = #pureevil
Did a fellow welsh man write this?
That would learn them. People can still use it on Chrome books (all .000000000000000001 % of people out there) Seriously MS should throw their weight around. Block Chrome from windows, block gmail, youtube from IE because it isn't written in HTML 5. Just cut that crappy advertising company out.
LOL this must be a joke. Everyone knows, that Google itself is a dishonest company. It is a thief and spy. It uses "a stolen product" and offers it for free. Not everyone knows that Google tracks everything you do. Your whole life in internet will be saved and sold for anyone who is willing to pay for that information.
There is one fresh statement Google brainfarted out recently:
"Google: Email Users Can't Legitimately Expect Privacy When Emailing Someone On Gmail "
As of right now Google could easily pull all their official YouTube apps and make it Android exclussive and Apple already is doing something like that with iTunes.
Started moving my Google App accounts to Microsoft today... they finally pushed me over the edge. All the changes to gmail, adding promotion tabs etc. just add to the desire to leave.
Once a Google evangelist, now a Google antagonist.
Good job Google, you were my default search engine for >10 years!! (previous was altavista), thnaks for making me make the switch to bing.
Android is a big joke, so no questions theere... I love WP, but with all these tirades from competition, the pains of being an early adopter is becoming more and more manifest. iOS suddenly become even more stable than it already is. Congrats, Tim Cook!
Lets make a scene.
I mean, Microsoft products are now way better than the Google products we all had in the past (take Outlook.com's premium-feeling webmail to Gmail for instance).
Unfortunately the users suffer, but ms crying fowl is pure hypocrisy. MS has always bent the rules, threw out standards, and played hardball with competitors. This is nothing more than a song and dance.
If a Microsoft product isn't working well on another platform then its probably that platforms fault.
Microsoft apps are often better with more features on iPhone & Android, case in point - Skype.
You would have to be blind or ignorant to not see Google's fault in this situation.
As important as Goog is to tech advancements / R&D, etc., there is LOTS OF LIFE TO BE HAD WITHOUT THEM.
I have also seen folks comment that there is even a YouTube app for BB10. Just curious - anyone know if it is just a port of the Android app?
Anyway, BOO GOOGLE, and please MSFT - PLEASE - keep your head. Don't retaliate and get into a PR nightmare with the general public. There are still sooo many tech consumers that have no clue - they just know / use what they hear is good or they can get for cheap, and I gotta say - there is waaay too much anti-Microsoft press out there.
Let's go MSFT... don't lose momentum with the WP platform!
I'll stop to use Chrome, Internet Explorer is now good enough for use.
And in the 8.1 IE8 has synchrony of favorites, so it's enough for me, I don't use extensions, so it simply.
block outlook.com to all chrome broswer... ask google to make a lot of change to there broswer and then, ask for more...
and why not, blocking all android device form using skyp...
if Microsoft play the same game, Scroogle mith understand some day..
I read the AndroidCentral post about this hoping they'd have something on Google's reply (I got nada). Then I scrolled through the comments section and could not contain myself, so I JUST HAD TO COMMENT TOO. Now, I feel as if I have opened the gates to hell.
#notetoself: NEVER POST ON ANDROIDCENTRAL AGAIN.
Ok I know that most people are aware of YouTube app problem on WP, but that shouldn't stop people from buying a WP.. Hahahaha
Download metro tube its a lot better than the MSFT created.. Ad free
I hope this influences people to decide whether to use Google's software at home, school and office. Seems to me they just plain can't be trusted. Then again, we all already knew that.
In Windows XP it will be installed in
C:\Documents and Settings\UserName\Local Settings\Application Data\Google\Chrome
Local Settings folder is a hidden folder, to see hidden folder go to tools -> Folder Options -> View tab -> and make sure show hidden files and folders is checked.
In Windows Vista it will be installed in C:\Users\UserName\AppDataLocal\Google\Chrome
AppDataLocal folder is a hidden folder, to see hidden folder go to tools -> Folder Options -> View tab -> and make sure show hidden files, folders and drives is checked.
In Windows 7 it will be installed in
AppData folder is a hidden folder, to see hidden folder go to tools -> Folder Options -> View tab -> and make sure show hidden files, folders and drives is checked.
Remember when Microsoft and Bill Gates were the bane of the world? Now Microsoft allows and even encourages "hacking" of Windows smartphones, while Google and Apple sue anyone and everyone. Bill Gates is now one of the world's greatest philanthropists. Apple and Google are now the shameless greedy bastards.
Wasn't it Microsoft who went after *every single* Android OEM with patent infringement suits, like the neighborhood mob enforcer visiting a local business establishment?
No more using Google from now on, only Bing. This is war people.
Going after Android OEMS with patent infringement suits?
I mean, really, come on. For Microsoft to cry now about unfair tactics is a bit absurd and hypocritical.
Microsoft are far from perfect but Google are just plain evil.
What if you created a software product and someone else used patents you abandoned and claimed that you no longer used them? Of course you'll sue that someone to pay for these abandoned patents! Patents, whether they're used or abandoned always belongs to the patent owners (in that case Microsoft) and nobody or no other company can use them without permission or payment.
So it's not truly Google taking revenge against Microsoft, but Google going against Microsoft and us the Windows Phone users and don't think that Google can patent the name YouTube and the associated app, YouTube is a public video service and cannot be patented.
The best thing to do is stop bitching here and voice your displease at google; be it Twitter, Facebook, email support, blogs, whatever. If YOU use a google service, tell Google to stop the immaturity. YOU are the customer.
In the mean time, stop using YouTube and use services like DailyMotion, Blip.TV, Vimeo, ZippCast, or Metacafe.
In the meantime... I'd like to see the Youtube unblocked by Google immediately or I will most certainly move away from there services and won't be recommending them to anyone. Alternatively, most quality videos these days tend to be on Vevo anyway - and there's an app for that already.
I haven't searched on google in over 3 years.
Haven't used google docs, email or any other offering of theirs.
As Cartman would say "How would you like to suck my balls Mr Garrison?!"
This was a cheap shot with the app. But it doesn't stop there for me.
Many changes with Gmail I absolutely despise, and I find the mail is now worse.
The new/future Google maps is brutal. The current/original one is IMO perfect.
The last batch of changes with YouTube have me going there far less.
Laziness is keeping me from switching my blog over to WP.
Chrome updates are hit and miss. Some are great, some have me using Firefox.
I actually like Google+ (mainly because I hate Facebook).
The lack of a Google Drive app for Windows Phone has me using Skydrive on my Lumia 520, Nexus 7 and PC.
And lastly the search, which I didn't truly realize until today. I was searching for a product and simply couldn't find it on Google. When I went to Bing, they didn't find it initially, however had a suggestion on the side of alternative search terms, which found it instantly. When I tried Google again with Bing's suggested term, they still couldn't find what I was looking for.
Google will always try to make things hard for Windows Phone users.
Don't be evil
If you block 1 platform due to regulations.....let at least 2 others continue whilst all 3 are using html5....is beyond my comprehension!!!
Bring google to court for discrimination.....!!!!!!
ms should yank the skype app on android