Microsoft slams Apple over unfair App Store policy as antitrust looms large

iPhone X
iPhone X (Image credit: Al Sacco | Windows Central)

Microsoft has spoken out against challenges facing Project xCloud for iOS, criticizing Apple over its handling of its integrated App Store, and stringent regulations on content. It comes as the Xbox streaming service eyes its Android debut on September 15, joining its Xbox Game Pass Ultimate subscription, bundling over 100 titles included within its library. Microsoft's comments provide a direct response to Apple's recent decision to double down on its own policies this Wednesday.

The spotlight falls on Apple after several stagnant months for Project xCloud iOS, with restrictions hindering Microsoft from delivering its cloud-powered streaming tech to iPhone and iPad. Developer guidelines saw Redmond unable to iterate, tied up with just one playable game, Halo: The Master Chief Collection, while locked down to just 10,000 participants. Microsoft recently confirmed plans to halt testing, pushing ahead on its Android debut instead.

Apple spoke out on Wednesday, upholding its App Store policies with Microsoft's new cloud streaming endeavor. The company's primary concern centers around its inability to review Project xCloud content, mandating that Microsoft lists all Xbox One games individually, with a manual review process for approval. That conflicts with the nature of any on-demand streaming platform and established non-gaming subscriptions like Netflix or Spotify.

Xbox Project xCloud

Source: Microsoft (Image credit: Source: Microsoft)

Microsoft issued a response hours later, calling out Apple for its gatekeeping on App Store content. The company claims "no path" to bring Project xCloud to one of the world's top portable platforms, despite consumer demand.

"Our testing period for the Project xCloud preview app for iOS has expired. Unfortunately, we do not have a path to bring our vision of cloud gaming with Xbox Game Pass Ultimate to gamers on iOS via the Apple App Store," Microsoft tells Windows Central. "Apple stands alone as the only general purpose platform to deny consumers from cloud gaming and game subscription services like Xbox Game Pass. And it consistently treats gaming apps differently, applying more lenient rules to non-gaming apps even when they include interactive content."

"Apple stands alone as the only general purpose platform to deny consumers from cloud gaming and game subscription services like Xbox Game Pass." — Microsoft spokesperson

"All games available in the Xbox Game Pass catalog are rated for content by independent industry ratings bodies such as the ESRB and regional equivalents. We are committed to finding a path to bring cloud gaming with Xbox Game Pass Ultimate to the iOS platform. We believe that the customer should be at the heart of the gaming experience and gamers tell us they want to play, connect and share anywhere, no matter where they are. We agree."

Microsoft's hard-hitting statement comes mere days after a recent antitrust hearing, which saw CEOs from Amazon, Apple, Facebook, and Google questioned over alleged anti-competitive business practices. For Apple, that included questioning over the App Store and its policies. Microsoft's concerns raise similar discussions around Apple's role in what makes it to the storefront.

Microsoft isn't happy and Apple is unwilling to compromise — exacerbated by documents detailing its Amazon deal in 2016. Cupertino is under close watch and it's unlikely to change without major App Store reforms. Until then, xCloud for iOS isn't looking healthy.

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Matt Brown

Matt Brown was formerly a Windows Central's Senior Editor, Xbox & PC, at Future. Following over seven years of professional consumer technology and gaming coverage, he’s focused on the world of Microsoft's gaming efforts. You can follow him on Twitter @mattjbrown.

  • Only hope is that they get flayed by the senate once the hearings are complete. Unlikely unfortunately.
  • Hopefully there will be criminal referrals over Tim Cook's fibs to Congress.
  • Apple considers gaming a strategic business area as evidenced by Apple Arcade service and having Microsoft show up in Apple App Store with its Project xCloud is the last thing they want. My thinking is Apple has studied the impact Project xCloud would have on the growth of Apple Arcade decided not to cede a dime of revenue or a single percentage point of market share to Microsoft. Of course, Apple can't just ban Microsoft, especially with the heightened anti-trust scrutiny aimed at them because of their app store business practices. What to do? Dot every "i" and cross every "t" in the app store submittal rules, interpret every rule in the least favorable light to Microsoft, drag their feet leaving canyons behind and then come up a cockamamie notion that Project xCloud, a service first and foremost, must follow the rules for single apps instead of those enjoyed by other service providers such as Netflix, Spotify, and of course Amazon which got treated preferentially by Apple. This whole dustup is a transparent attempt to ban Project xCloud while riding their white horse of virtue by claiming it just wants a level playing field for everyone. Forcing Microsoft to submit every game individually a is a clever tactical move on Apple's part. The number of the dead i's and t's will number in the tens of thousands and I shudder to think about the damage to the environment from all the foot dragging. Next up on the argument stack will be Apple arguing they are doing it for the children. Using the Microsoft anti-trust prosecution as precedent, the time to share the love with Apple over their app store tactics has come. That is a predatory monopoly, given the draconian rake and convoluted rules they define and apply. Of course, depending on one's perspective, Apple's tactics are those of simply what happens when you're doing business. Especially if they are doing it for the children. And from Microsoft's perspective they are looking out for the consumer especially on a platform that is a desert for gaming options. Especially if they are doing it for the children. It is a ruthless game these technology companies play.
  • Also fun is that you are required to submit games individually, but even in the test, they were using TMCC, which in itself is a collection of games... I welcome the sight of good-guy Microsoft vs. bad-guy Apple, the cat's finally out of the bag. I hope Apple has to bend over and take it after these proceedings, as I feel that would be best for their users.
  • The appeal of Apple's walled garden, and why millions around the world flock to it, is that it's a beautiful garden. If they don't strictly police it than any riff-raff could be allowed to come in and trash the place. I think Apple's legit on this one. Sure gaming is business to them, but in all sincerity Apple, as a company, has always been about producing a quality (albeit expensive) product. Steve Jobs was notorious for ripping engineers to shreds in the pursuit of perfection. It goes to the very core of the company. The ability to review each game, to make sure it adheres to their strict standards, is a sound argument.
  • But why not just review all those games within Xcloud instead of necessarily for each title separate? Why should this be any different than Netflix? Or heck even to remote pc software? I can only think of Apple trying to protect its grip on iOS's gaming market.
  • Seriously. MS brought a great point. Netflix is not having to review every show/movie of their streaming content. That's what the MPA does and whatever the TV standards are.
  • The games or software on xCloud or any other streaming subscription service don't have to go through what a normal Apple developer would have to go through to get their software on iOS, and thereby Apple loses the licensing fee. Same general policy as Microsoft has for Xbox.
  • Huh? Apple isn't entitled to a licensing fee. Microsoft is selling a service, not content. Content is accessible via the service... Just like any other streaming service for movies, TV, etc. Apple doesn't get a cut on every piece of content available on any other service.
  • Microsoft's app violates the term of Apple's policy for software by trying to provide a way around licensing, quality control, etc. "Apple doesn't get a cut on every piece of content available on any other service." They don't for music and video but they could if they wanted to. Not sure what the point is. Its no different on Xbox hardware. I'm not sure what your point is... Microsoft is being treated just like the rest of the game streamers. Valve had similar problems.... Sony only provide Remote Play via iOS, not PS Now.
  • That _is_ literally the point. They apply the rules inconsistently and that makes you think hmmm I wonder why, and the obvious reason is anti competition. I love my Apple gear, but they are too greedy and closed when it comes to external ecosystems and services. (Like you have to buy books and videos from Amazon outside on the web and only consume on the device)
    Apple are on sticky ground on this one. They booted off parental control ISVs for their own controls rather than open the API. Tim Cook looked weak when being probed by Congress on many areas. He just kept rattling off sales figures. His argument is basically we make lots of other people lots of money, harm us and you harm them. It’s a pathetic argument/position to take.
  • Actually they appear to apply the rule just like they have every other company that has tried to directly by pass the store for software (games), not sure what you are talking about. Microsoft isn't going to allow me to open my own store up on Xbox to try and by pass the Microsoft Store and Xbox Live. This really isn't difficult.
  • Bingo. It's likey this is about money. Apple doesn't want Microsoft to have Xbox revenue without a cut. The argument about quality doesn't hold water. This is not some kid in their basement messing around with a new app concept
  • They had this rule well before XCloud become a thing. It isn't a new rule.
  • "Why should this be any different than Netflix?" Why? 1) Because movie encoding is very different from engineering an interactive video game. There is basically a 0% chance of the quality of the product not meeting Apple standards once Apple sees the first encoded movie works fine. But there are tons of quality issues in some games. Apple has high standards for quality, and should be allowed to continue to expect that from third party developers. Quality is the primary reason why people love Apple. 2) The interactive and often "mature" nature of many core games make them troublesome to many parents already. It's the reason why Nintendo appeals to some parents over other gaming consoles.
    Apple has every right to decide what types of content is appropriate for its ecosystem image. If it wants to be a family friendly Nintendo then it has that right. Why should it be force to allow Microsoft, Google, and Facebook make those decisions for them? For that matter, what's so wrong with forcing Microsoft, Google, Facebook and others to wrap these streamed games as individual titles, so that Apple can approve/deny on a game-by-game basis? That's completely reasonable. 3) It's Microsoft's own fault for getting out of mobile. And letting their own ecosystem (the MS Store) rot on the vine. They made those decisions. If they want to push subscription based gaming, then do through so Android, or come out with a phone themselves again.
  • So you think it's OK for Apple to demand re rating games that have already been rated by each country and their respective ratings boards anyway. And why not treat Gamepass the same way they treat Netflix for example? Netflix don't have to submit each movie for rating by Apple. This is Apple scared of Xcloud. And they should be. But underhanded practices are poor form. I'll just watch Apples 25% WW marketshare drop over the next 12 months. It will hurt them. There is alot of people who have I phones stating they will switch. Let's see if those aims come to actuality.
  • Each game or piece of software has to go through Apple procedures, same thing that happens on Xbox, Playstation, Nintendo, TVs, mobile devices, voice speakers, etc. "I'll just watch Apples 25% WW marketshare drop over the next 12 months. " A good portion of the closed systems won't let xCloud on them either or have already rejected it i.e. Playstation, Nintendo, iOS, etc. You guys act like all this is new. LOL
  • I know it's android but I hope Microsoft now look at brining xcloud to the Huawei app store now apple are out of the picture for the moment.
  • "Cupertino is under close watch and it's unlikely to change without major App Store reforms. Until then, xCloud for iOS isn't looking healthy."
    xCloud will look healthy, Mobile phone gamers just need to dump iPhone for Android based phones and they will be able to game.
  • And they will. A lot of them will. We'll see how Apple likes losing numbers in their main business. They really don't have that much else. Of course, they musrt be making BILLIONS off Apple Arcade. /s Guys, I can't stress this enough. Open your eyes. Apple doesn't care about what tou want. They want to force their view onto their users. They want to close your head and shut your eyes to the real world, to what you could do with a smartphone. Don't be a willing hostage. Get out of there as soon as you can. You'll be fine. People do it all the time.
  • This will have minimal to no impact to Apple. The amount of people that would change mobile device over this, I assume, is very little. The tactics being used are BS and the walled gardens that most major tech companies are pursuing is not consumer friendly. But let's be honest, this will not change and I can't see governments doing anything that will actually make a difference.
  • Where I think it's going to hurt is their growth strategy. They need to make inroads in the China/India/Korea markets. These are were mobile gaming is king. xCloud/Stadia/Facebook gaming are all what these markets are looking for. Western gamers have staked their positions in the platform wars and I doubt there will be much shifting between PS/XBox because of cloud. It's areas where that extra box isn't feasable or long communutes on public transport that the cloud services are really going to gain traction.
  • Nobody gives a crap about game streaming. Which is why nobody is up in arms that the Google Stadia app, Sony Playstation Now app, Nvidia GeForce app, etc. aren't available on iOS. Game streaming was never alive to kill off.
  • I think right now you are right about streaming but as it matures and 5g get better I think it will be a major player in all gaming
  • Latency will not be improved with 5g generally speaking, bandwidth will be improved but latency is number of bounces and speed of light restricted. Which is why you will have latency even on a super high speed internet connection which is hardwired. 5g doesn't really change anything, or at least I fail to see why it would. The issues with game streaming will exist even after 5g is rolled out.
  • Latency is generally only an issue for competitive games. Every singleplayer game or more casual multiplayer games will be playable. Similar to how Netflix is good enough for most.
  • Well, just answering the guys question, I actually kind of agree with you. But game streaming hasn't been a failure for 10+ year just because of latency, people enjoy ownership, people don't want a service, whatever... latency is potentially only one reason. I was just answering him as far as 5g.
  • You really haven't tried XCloud have you? Latency isn't an issue.
  • You really don't understand Speed of Light or network hops do you?
  • You continue to say this on every game streaming article, Daisy. You obviously care.
  • Care about discussion sure, but nobody really cares about game streaming as a product.
  • Said Blockbuster in 2007 when Netflix introduced movie/TV streaming. Now who exists and who doesn't.
  • Sure, but there is one big fundamental flaw in your thinking. Data caps. There are hidden costs to streaming as a primary means of gaming. That's why MS is making xCloud a value add rather than their primary means to offer their product. Don't get me wrong 5G should improve things like latency and offer a smoother experience similar to WiFi, but that doesn't solve the data issue
  • Datacaps was the same argument made then too.
  • Maybe Apple is planning for their own streaming platform.
  • They already have their own software distribution platform. They don't want people going around that. Kinda simple really. Gonna be tough changing their mind.
  • You don't seem to understand how game streaming works, it's not a software distribution platform.
  • Yes it can be, its not running natively but you are still running software remotely. Its still distributing software.
  • It absolutely is. XCloud is basically a UI that lets you choose what software to stream. You don't get that?
  • Tech wars: Microsoft strikes back
  • "We have to let go of this notion that for Apple to win, Microsoft has to lose."
    -- Steve Jobs
  • I'm not sure what the issue is. iOS is a closed system just like Xbox hardware/software, Microsoft isn't going to allow me or Apple to setup a competing store or to by pass licensing without a special agreement and probably large amount of money. Sony won't let Microsoft install it on Playstation and Nintendo won't allow them to install it on Switch without a special partnership either. Apple won't let Sony put their Playstation Now app on the store either, same thing, or the full Steam streaming app, or the GeForce Nvadia app, or the Google Stadia app. What does seem like they will allow is non-competing streaming/remote software i.e. Playstation Remote Play and the Steam app which only streams from individuals own hardware/software library - not through a paid subscription from a companies own cloud services. Playstation Now - Not Okay
    Playstation Remote Play - Okay Seems pretty easy to figure out.
  • Now I understand why you're keep saying that no one cares, you're a blind Apple defender. Apple is treating video and game streaming differently for absolutely no valid reason. Netflix, Audible and other subscription services are perfectly okay on iOS and can even get around Apple getting a cut.
  • Its no different than what Microsoft is doing on the close Xbox hardware, you clearly didn't read or can't comprehend what I wrote. Microsoft allows Neftlix on Xbox but they're not going allow me to put in my own store or app to by pass the Microsoft Store for games/software purchases or rentals. This really isn't difficult.
  • The problem is, Microsoft do allow competing platforms in their ecosystem. EA Access on Xbox has been a thing for longer than Gamepass. On the pc you have all sorts of them too. So Apple really should be more flexible in this manner. Be open to compromises in their rules as long as their is a reasonable alternative. Even if that means they get less revenue. Drawing users to Apple because popular services are there has its own value. It really isn't that difficult.
  • Microsoft will not allow me to put my own digital store to sell and purchases software and games on Xbox. EA Access gives money to microsoft for the rights to the hardware, matter of fact, EA Access was denied access to Playstation for years until an agreement was reached. Windows, Linux, Mac, etc. are open systems and are not impacted. As your last point, if anything Apple probably couldn't make a deal as than all the other companies would complain about unfair practices i.e. Sony, Nvidia, Facebook, Google, etc. Microsoft is being treated the same as everyone else, but if you don't like Apple as a consumer I get that... just don't buy their hardware. They're not doing anything different than what Microsoft is doing with Xbox. Basically, if you allow this... without huge money in return its the end of the Apple Store as you can visualize or stream software/games. How about this, I make a digital store and Microsoft implements it into xCloud for streaming, I sell and rent games through xCloud... Microsoft pays for the streaming... I pay Microsoft nothing? Same thing.
  • stick to the subject.
    Apple mentioned the need to verify all the games on x cloud to conform to apple standard. The issue is not about putting store. EA access or steam are irrelevant for this discussion. If you plan to put your store similar to EA store, Microsoft and you would negotiate and probably charge a percentage just like Apple, Play store, Steam. In this case, Apple simply won't allow it.
  • There is no subject to stick too, its very easy... streaming virtualization via subscription probably isn't going to be allowed by Apple or the vast majority of closed system manufacturers including Microsoft on Xbox. The issue is clearly about the store as they are attempting to by pass the store and store policies and procedures. Apple isn't going to allow it, just like they wouldn't allow subscription streaming models like PS Now, Nvidia GeForce, and Stadia. There is nothing complex about this.
  • "The issue is clearly about the store as they are attempting to by pass the store and store policies and procedures." Vudu won't be allowed? "Apple isn't going to allow it, just like they wouldn't allow subscription streaming models like PS Now, Nvidia GeForce, and Stadia." Spotify, Netflix? Just like subscription model showed? If Apple were to release their gaming subscription, it's ok because it's their store, so Apple could shut everyone off. Your defense on this is? Not to use it? What difference between apple as monopoly and you defending apple?
  • Those are not software(games). Its not a defense, its common sense... same policy as Microsoft has on Xbox. They allow Spotify, Youtube, Netflix... Microsoft isn't going to allow my digital store on Xbox, or on xCloud.... and by pass the Microsoft Store. How does one as a developer release software on the Xbox One, or Xbox 360 without going through Microsoft procedures? Oh yeah, you can't. "If Apple were to release their gaming subscription, it's ok because it's their store, so Apple could shut everyone off. " Of course, same thing as Xbox or xCloud, one digital store. Clearly everyone has an issue with this... as this is generally how it works on all the close systems. I'm still confused about the confusion.
  • "Apple mentioned the need to verify all the games on x cloud to conform to apple standard. The issue is not about putting store." I put it there again. You are obviously stating store waled gardn whatever. Who's confused
  • I don't know what this means. Apple statement is pretty clear, Microsoft is trying to make software (games) accessible outside of the Apple Store. Said developer is than not conforming to Apple's Store policies and agreements, furthermore Apple doesn't receive a cut or control. Its no different than if I tried to by pass the Microsoft Store on Xbox.
  • You said Apple's statement as if you are actually the representative of Apple, or you just plain apple fan. I have no idea what you are trying to prove as what you said totally irrelevant.
  • I'm not trying to prove anything. LOL Its not my fault you are confused.
  • All digital content is software anymore, especially movies and shows on Netflix. Or do you think there is an army of people shoving DVDs into players for every Netflix movie and show?
  • You mean all digital content is digital content. Software to me are things that can be executed by a computer. A mp3 is not an executable like a computer program, but you can make a computer program play a mp3 file... .or even play music.
  • And game streaming is digital content. There are no computer instructions sent to the device, they are just receiving a video/audio stream, just like netflix. Can just like netflix, you can send inputs to change the data sent, such as picking a different audio language or sending/not sending subtitles. Game streaming is the same; just that ability to send more inputs and have more control over the audio/video being sent. My SteamLink box is the same thing; the software (game) runs on my computer; only the video/audio data is sent to the Link, and the link relays inputs back. Apple also allows Remote Desktop applications in their store, do they not? Do they also demand to review ever piece of software available on the remote computer?
  • Game streaming is not the same because you are distributing software, you might not like it... but it is software. Yes, Apple does allow remote play but not to companies distributing software to customers which is why PS Remote Play and Steam client are allowed but PS Now and xCloud are not. Its not hard to understand.
  • The very fact Netflix doesn't have to submit each movie tells you Apple is playing funny buggers. Xcloud and Netflix are the same thing. Streaming content to your device. But it seems Apple is concerned it's alot more popular than Apple Arcade. People underestimated Xcloud. And MS best the rest to a service for games that is amazing out the gate.
  • Netflix and XCloud aren't the same. One streams video and the other software. Apple doesn't allow software distribution platforms on their devices. XCloud is really no different than an app store.
  • Exactly. Under Microsoft's strange theory, I should be able to put my application on xCloud, this application than can shuffle any applications/software/game in and out through a library on my backend, I collect a subscription fee from end users through the web. I than sign up developers to put their software/games on my platform and Microsoft is obligated to stream my application with no fees, control, agreements, etc from the end developer. Same thing. LOL
  • Why do they let Spotify, HULU, Netflix etc. in the app store. They all compete with iTunes and Apple TV. They don't require every individual song, movie a d TV show be validated. This is strictly a money play. They don't want you to be able to switch between Destiny2, HALO, some indy game, and Kingdom Hearts without getting their 30% cut from each game.
  • They're not going to allow a third party to sell or rent software while by passing the Apple Store. Its no different than on Xbox, Microsoft allows Netflix, Spotify, etc. but they're not going allow me the ability to setup my own digital store and sell games on it. The policy is pretty easy to understand.
  • They already are, dummy. Also, xCloud isn't a digital store, it's a service.
  • The service allows third party to buy/rent software/games and by pass the Apple Store, I'm not sure why you have to resort to insults.
  • Why is Xcloud different than Netflix here? Both are just an abbo for content.
  • Well, ask Microsoft why they allow Netflix on Xbox, but than ask them how I can put my own digital store on Xbox for selling software/games without them getting a cut or having control. My next step as a developer would be, how do we by pass Xbox Live and implement our own connection service without Microsoft. Same thing. The line in the sand seems to be selling/renting software.
  • They aren't selling any games. It's a subscription service. On Google you can't make purchases for games. All that is included is Gamepass Xcloud. It's exactly the same as Netflix. A subscription to get a select amount of games. They aren't purchasing any games at all.
  • They are attempting to by pass the requirements of the store with software distribution. All Microsoft has to do is change the client to remote play.
  • I really think you need to read up on what xCloud and game streaming is, I think it might surprise you 😉
  • I'm sorry, but you are misunderstanding what xCloud is. They are not selling/renting games to be installed on the devices. If that's what they were doing, you would have a legitimate point. Just like Spotify, Netflix, Hulu, et. al. all have their libraries of content with licenses to stream those libraries to subscribers, so does Microsoft with their games on xCloud. You argument is specious.
  • Its just a subscription based game streaming service i.e. PS Now. LOL Its nothing new.... we all know it is. I don't really have an argument, I have facts, you don't like the facts of why its being rejected from the Apple Store.... duh... everyone told MS it wouldn't be allowed on other closed system.... Sony and Nintendo already rejected them too.. DUHHHHHHHH.
  • XCloud isn't selling games. It's just like Spotify or Netflix. If you decide you want to buy the game for another platform fine, go there and buy it. Most of tbese games couldn't run on an iPhone it takes the lower of the cloud. Why would they even be available in the App Store.
  • Yeah, they are renting games (software), see my post, "allow a third party to sell or rent software". Microsoft isn't going to allow me to stand up my own store to rent games on Xbox, duh. Neither is Sony, Nintendo, Amazon, etc. without a piece of the pie.
  • Wrong, EA Access Regardless, Apple is in the wrong for treating video and audio subscription services differently than gaming. It must be a level playing field. I don't care what company it is, they should all follow that.
  • Microsoft reached an agreement with EA Access and probably get a cut of subscription money. It took EA years to get that with Sony. If no, than were are the rules/policies if I want to setup my own store and by pass the Microsoft Store and Xbox Live on Xbox? Oh yeah, those don't exist. Microsoft doesn't just allow free access to Xbox hardware. Imo, Xbox is actually less fair as they treating EA different than they would me. In this case, Microsoft is being treated the same as everyone else i.e. Sony Playstation Now, Google Stadia, Nvidia GeForce, etc. Apple does allow remote software into ones own equipment like PS Remote Play and the Steam app.
  • So you are "renting" movies, songs, tv shows from Spotify and Netflix? I don't want to be insulting but I really am begining to think you have no idea what xCloud or Stadia for that matter is.
  • Go ahead. Daisy is trolling big-time
  • I wouldn't even know what to troll about.... most of my comments are factual. LOL If Microsoft want to fix they're app, they can.... all they have do is what Sony/Vavle did.... do Remote Play instead. Everyone told Microsoft this years ago, same reason you probably won't see Stadia or Steam on Xbox. duhhhh
  • Then explain why Netflix, Hulu and Spotify are available on iOS as the subscription to those is the same thing as for xCloud. Not only that do Apple vet every game on Stadia seeing as the iOS Stadia app only allows game purchases?
  • Netflix is video subscription not game or software.
  • Microsoft should pull Office and all their apps from the App Store until Apple changes policies. Google and Facebook should do the same.
  • Then everyone will switch to Linux distros or approach to open source applications.
  • People are going to use Linux instead of an iPhone? I don't understand what you saying. It doesn't seem to make sense.
  • How about just punish apple the easy way..dont buy an Iphone! Get an android phone
  • That's not easy as you wrote. Apple Phones are social symbol for most people. All thing is upto an individual's taste.
  • Apple can see this is going to be big for MS so they want to be the middleman on all money traveling between the customer and MS (JUST TAKING A SMALL 30% SLICE TO WET MY BEAK)
  • Its actually much simpler than if I can implement a client to stream/virtualize a software packages than you by pass the Apple store, you by pass the store policies and procedures for getting on the device. Not only does Apple not receive a percentage (and control) but this puts the developers that are natively developing for iOS at a disadvantage. Game streaming is basically a failure product/service, which is why nobody is screaming because PS Now, GeForce, Stadia, etc apps are not allowed. Like Microsoft other consumer products/services, this will probably not end well.
  • Most predictions so far is that game streaming is gonna be huge looking forward. Game Pass on xCloud is pretty fantastic deal and the first real subscription service for gaming (everyone else requires you to buy the games). The game selection is really good. One payment and you have access to all games instantly without upgrading hardware. So far this "streaming will be dead" sounds just as viable as the "no one will use Netflix" or "I still buy physical CDs" that echoes pretty thin now. Not saying it's better, just that it's gonna be huge.
  • What people have been saying for 10+ years. Game streaming isn't new, its actually quite mature technology, Microsoft is very late and there is no real demand. Why do you think nobody is upset all the other streaming clients aren't on iOS? Nobody really cares.
  • Streaming isn't new but if you compare what we had 10 or 5 years ago it's not anything like xCloud. This is pure subscription and you get a fantastic game selection. Never had that before in any service since MS has the power to do it. For me this has that game changer feeling when using it and I am basically PS and PC gamer. Stadia, GeForce now etc. is to niche. We will see I guess but I can't wrap my head around defending the apple position here since you loose a really cool service.
  • Actually you can do it on PS Now years ago. The service itself is the same, video is compressed and sent to the destination, input controls are sent to the host server. "We will see I guess but I can't wrap my head around defending the apple position here since you loose a really cool service." It has nothing to do with defending Apple, this is how licensing and closed systems work.... exactly the same thing on Xbox hardware.
  • PS Now sadly don't work that well. Tried a while back and the streaming was barely ok. The overall experience is so so but given time maybe can become something good. Don't is however the one possible competitor to MS in regards to the game library. In regards to Apple I don't care much about what others do. Ofc everyone understands Apple draw the line here since it's competing directly with their own push in gaming. This is a power move. Having the biggest app store and a ruleset that works in Apple's favor can't be a good ruleset for competition. If apple wants apps on Xbox let's critique and take that discussion then and how much or little it makes sense then but comparing doesn't help me much to be honest. Streaming will take time but the timing is good and the tech and game selection there. A good prediction is that streaming will be about 6.3% in 2024 ( It's very possible after testing xCloud I would say. I didn't think that one year ago.
  • I was in on the PS Now beta, Stadia beta, and OnLive beta back in 2011... I've used various other services for streaming your own computer or consoles and even PS Remote Play. The all work the same way, not sure what you mean by doesn't work. "Ofc everyone understands Apple draw the line here since it's competing directly with their own push in gaming. This is a power move." Its competing against their software in the Apple Store and by passes the Apple store i.e. control, licensing, and fees. Duhh. Same thing as the Xbox.
  • Not really much different than Android. Microsoft also partnered with Samsung to avoid this as a work around to the Google Play Store. I don't see this in particular playing out well for Microsoft to be honest. Microsoft wants to push their own service on other platforms but doesn't want to pay the store tax. It's pretty sad when you see how Microsoft is pushing it's services Samsung phones as an exclusive, I particularly won't use the UI that comes on a Samsung device, I'm not saying it's bad, just don't care for it. Especially when Microsoft is using a Google API to do this. I hope Apple fights this through and I don't care for iPhone products for other reasons.
  • I don't think you're entirely correct. I could download the Game Pass app from the Play Store now if I wanted to. The Samsung version just has some extra functionality.
  • Interesting, I'll have to look into it. Doesn't really add up with why they won't allow on Apple, must be something I'm missing. I would never use it regardless, I would never play these games on my phone, that's what a console/PC and a TV/monitor are for.
  • Dradzk, Generally speaking if a person signs up for subscription via an apple app, Apple could get their bite either way. The way I am taking Apple with PS Now, Stadia, Geforce, xCloud, etc. is they really don't want them because they can by pass the store with any type of software. Sony has the Playstation Remote Play app on iOS, but there is no subscription and a person is basically streaming from their own hardware, same goes for the Steam app. Microsoft is being treated the same as everyone else. Remote play is probably fine, but not streaming/virtualization tool to cloud provider.
  • Remote play is not the same as Xcloud or Netflix. You don't need an Xbox to stream from to play Xcloud. Xcloud is exactly the same as Netflix. But with games instead. Exactly the same. You pay a subscription to access a catalog of content. You don't own them. You don't rent them. You don't rent Netflix movies. You don't rent Games on Xcloud. They are exactly the same thing. Apple are protecting Apple Arcade. And they know Xcloud is big. I hope Apple get brought to their knees in the courts currently.
  • Remote Play is the same tech, remote play streams from individual box. Yes, xCloud is like PS Now, Apple won't allow PS Now in the Apple Store either. This really isn't that tough. "Apple are protecting Apple Arcade." No, they are protecting the Apple Store. "And they know Xcloud is big. " All it is... is game streaming tech that's been around for 15 years nothing new. All the Google fans thought Stadia was going to be big. They were wrong.
  • If Google would have followed xCloud's lead and charged a single monthly fee for you to play the available games, they probably would have done as well as Google fans thought they would. But since Google made the decision that you had to pay full price for a game before you could play it on their service, well that pretty much tanked all the enthusiasm from the initial announcement. With that policy in place, Google pretty much blasted a hole in their Stadia boat.
  • Wait so you honestly believe game streaming tech has not improved over 15 years? Have you missed the bit where billions and billions of dollars has been invested by MS, Amazon and Google into cloud based servers and streaming software? Here's a quick test, look up videoconferencing tech from 15 years ago, compare it to the simplicity, efficiency and effectiveness of apps like Zoom, MS Teams and even Apple's facetime. They are worlds apart. The quality of Apple's store will not be affected by xCloud (which is what they're claiming). Also if you believe the service will fail, then why are they/you so reluctant to let it on iOS? If it the technology/service is no good then it will suck on both Android and Apple. Microsoft will be held accountable and it will fade away. I'm curious, does Spotify on iOS let you buy songs and albums?
  • "Wait so you honestly believe game streaming tech has not improved over 15 years? Have you missed the bit where billions and billions of dollars has been invested by MS, Amazon and Google into cloud based servers and streaming software?" Actually, it really hasn't, there has been been better compression but that is basically meaningless as well because bandwidth is many times what it was 15 years ago. Compression helps but at the end of the day its still bound and restricted by hops and speed of light. "cloud based servers" is a marketing term, 15 years ago they were just distributing computer servers. The limitations to game streaming still exist i.e. latency. Game streaming works the same way it worked during testing on the PS3 to PSP in 2006. "Here's a quick test, look up videoconferencing tech from 15 years ago, compare it to the simplicity, efficiency and effectiveness of apps like Zoom, MS Teams and even Apple's facetime. They are worlds apart." Oh, the ability for one to capture high quality video is better but that isn't a game streaming problem, game streaming was always limited by GPU. That's a normal limiting factor, the issue with game streaming is latency and artifacts, and really long term the costs will be more as you are actually paying someone to manage your hardware or leasing. (generally speaking) "The quality of Apple's store will not be affected by xCloud (which is what they're claiming). Also if you believe the service will fail, then why are they/you so reluctant to let it on iOS? If it the technology/service is no good then it will suck on both Android and Apple. Microsoft will be held accountable and it will fade away. " Well, if one can by pass the requirements of the Apple store their agreements, control, and fees than it could seriously impact Apple as than anyone can virtualize or stream software into one app, charge zero for it on the Apple Store and than charge on the backend. I actually think virtualization or streaming software actually does work, just doesn't work good (i.e. latency) with games... so in theory Microsoft could than just stream Office via a streaming client or any other software a third party may want to stream. (get it yet?) "I'm curious, does Spotify on iOS let you buy songs and albums?" I'm not a spotify user or an iOS user, I actually don't know the answer to that question that. Apple doesn't want developers to have the ability to go around the Store, and for obvious reasons... they would have no business. Its no different than Xbox. You probably will never see Stadia, PS Now, GeForce, etc on Xbox. Same thing. MS can just change their client to remote play, there are several remote software clients on iOS and specifically to gaming i.e. PS Remote Play, Steam Link, Shadow, etc. I'm still baffled by the confusion. This would provide the backdoor for any software to by pass the Apple Store, or the PS Store on PS, or Nintendo Store on the Switch... etc. How about this, I create a program.... Microsoft puts it on xCloud service... I than run my own subscription of games and software that I want from third parties, pay Microsoft zero.... not only that but MS has no say so as to quality, agreements, control, etc. Same thing.
  • So let's be clear, you dispute that a service, which is actively being used and tested both internally at MS and by the tech industry, can work? That's an interesting stance to take. Also you keep getting the comparisons wrong. Gamepass/xCloud is not a store. The App purely allows you to log in access content you've already subscribed to. The direct comparison to make would be if Apple were to place the Apple Arcade app on the MS store and seek to have it run on both Windows PC's and the xbox. That would be an interesting test. But I doubt Apple would do that, as it would allow people to access pay-walled content without the need to buy Apple hardware. Funny thing did you know the iTunes app is available on the MS Store? This seems pretty contrary to everything you just argued against. It's a rival store in a store, it has a subscription service, it allows for purchases of content (including movie and TV shows that the MS store also sells) for which MS gets no revenue and the content is curated by Apple's ToCs not by MS. Also the reason MS are pushing to have xcloud stream content directly from the cloud, is so people that are not inclined to invest in gaming hardware (either PC or Console) can still access a library of new and old games for a monthly fee. Maybe they purchase hardware later. Maybe some people that can't justify the expense of upgrading to a next gen console/graphics card have a reason to maintain their Gamepass sub. I think it's odd when people support practices which are obviously anti-consumer. It's fair enough to know when a company is acting in its own interests and that they exist to make profits. It is something else entirely to be a cheerleader for it. A solution was found on Apple's main competitor in the mobile market. I would expect iPhone users to want Apple to also find a solution.
  • 1. Never said it didn't work, it just doesn't work well for games i.e. latency - same goes for all the present and past game streaming services. 2. Yes, GamePass and xCloud are a store, just because, a store is where you buy things, Blockbuster was still a store because you bought a rental. 3. Don't know what you mean about Apple Arcade on Xbox, if Apple put in a streaming application where they can replace the software with out going through the MS Store. Well, good luck with all that.... which is why you don't see any of the streaming services on Xbox. 4. I never said iTunes or Spotify or Netflix are not allowed on the closed system, not sure what your point is... none of them are going to allow software that doesn't go through process, fees, agreementss, etc without huge money and probably some type of process. Duh. 5. Of course MS is streaming from servers, just like every other game streaming service that has existed. Not sure what that has to do with my comments. MS is simply following in the foot steps of everyone else. 6. "I think it's odd when people support practices which are obviously anti-consumer. " Well than, you just described basically every close hardware system and service system.... you're going to be very upset if you produce software that can go on xCloud and think you're not going to give Microsoft a percentage. Same thing, same thing for xCloud, Xbox, Windows Phone, Windows RT, etc. i.e. Windows Store. Game Pass, xCloud, MIcrosoft Store, etc are all close systems... you either agree with Microsoft and follow their process... or off with the head. Still not sure what the confusion is, but I can see you are confused on how licensing works. Generally, I would say you're not going any of the streaming subscriptions on other closed systems (whether software or hardware systems) as that by passes the requirements of the store, licensing, policies, agreements, control, etc. .... i.e. that is how they make money.
  • Actually pretty different situation on Android. Google's hold has always been the Play Store. If you wanted any google service it had to be through the play store and Chrome was the big draw. You have always been able to load apps on Android devices from other than the Play Store they just scared people into believing it was unsafe. With Apple this isn't possible. Samsung and Amazon have both created pretty good app stores but Google doesnt put up to much fight because their revenue stream is advertising not app sales like Apple.
  • Bottom line here is Apple doesn't want to change the mobile game dynamic. They make a mint on Pay-to-Win mobile games. The last thing they want is folks realizing they can play full AAA games for $15/month and buy any cosmetics ect. they may want elsewhere. And play them anywhere anytime and have all the extra content follow them around.
  • The bottom line is you don't understand licensing, same thing Microsoft does on the Xbox. duhhhhh