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Microsoft's universal take on 'touch' tech makes Apple's look terrible

Touchscreens are so integral to modern technology that my toddler daughter used to touch the television screen expecting the Netflix icons to respond.

I even sometimes touch old PCs thinking they'll register the input. Sadly not all PCs, not even modern MacBooks and iMacs, are created equal. Apple's CEO Tim Cook adamantly asserts that bringing touch to its PC platform is like merging a refrigerator and toaster.

Still, while touch is common on tablets, smartphones, Windows PCs and many modern computing UIs, Apple's touch philosophy seems paradoxically rooted in the past. Particularly since Apple's iPhone mainstreamed touch mobile computing.

Can't touch this

Apple's Chief Design Officer Jony Ive said, that the company explored putting touch into a Mac but rejected that idea "many, many years ago." Apple execs further assert "it doesn't feel natural to reach out to touch a computer screen." The argument is that one's arm would get tired due to frequently interacting with the display.

This is an odd stance since Apple's touch-centric, iOS-powered iPad Pro paired with a keyboard is aggressively positioned against Windows PCs as the computer redefined. Ironically, Apple doesn't apply its "arm getting tired" concern to the mouseless, iPad Pro which demands to be touched while it pretends to be a "computer."

In fact, iPad Pro users must use touch more frequently than Windows 10 users, who can choose between touch or mouse and trackpad to navigate the OS. Guess whose arm is more likely to tire?

When it comes to cognitive dissonance, Apple is "touched"

Former Apple CEO Steve Jobs introduces the iPhone with a focus on touch.

There's a fundamental conflict in Apple's touch philosophy. For Mac and MacBook, Apple claims touch in desktop scenarios isn't ideal. For touch-centric iPad Pros in the same context, the purported shortcomings of touch are ignored as iPad Pro with a keyboard is pushed as a superior "computer" to a Windows PC.

For the company whose former CEO, Steve Jobs, lauded the benefits of touch as a natural way of interacting with technology, Apple's conflicting positions on touch are confusing.

Apple's Phil Schiller, senior vice president of worldwide marketing, provided the following context for what some consider a woefully inadequate concession by Apple to bring touch to MacBook Pro, via a touch strip:

What we wanted to do was bring all this advanced technology of multitouch and Retina displays down to where your hands can take advantage of them on a laptop.

The "convenience" of a narrow strip on the keyboard introduces the inconvenience of requiring that users look away from the display and at the keyboard to get things done. Reaching out to the screen one is already looking at is less disruptive to one's workflow and a more natural experience. It's also consistent with the touch philosophy that helped propel iPhone's success.

For Microsoft, touch is natural and immersive

We naturally interact with the physical world through fine and gross motor movements. Companies have sought to seamlessly weave those innate skills into our interactions with digital content.

From fingers on our touchscreens to broad movements that help us navigate virtual and augmented reality, the future of computing is touch. Microsoft's OneCore enables touch across all Windows 10 form factors from the diminutive Surface Go, to the wall-dominating Surface Hub and the future-focused HoloLens. Touch and inking (and voice and gaze) are integrated across Microsoft's context-conforming device family. This is a very different approach than Apple's polarized touch philosophy.

Microsoft's implementation, though unique and ambitious, is also imperfect. Windows 10's touch-focused Tablet Mode leaves much to be desired. This imperfect execution allows Apple to leverage a strategy for which it is infamous and which Ive referenced:

Doing something that's different is actually relatively easy and relatively fast, and that's tempting ... We take a very different approach in that we genuinely want to make something that's better.

Apple is out of touch

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Apple is notorious for criticizing other company's risks, claiming disinterest, until it debuts a "better" take on the tech. Large-screen smartphones, a stylus called an Apple Pencil, and mini-tablets are some examples. It seems inevitable that Apple's goal is to join the rest of the world by bringing touch to Macs and MacBooks. But Apple won't do that until it feels it can do touch on PC better than Microsoft.

With Mac and MacBook refreshes rumored for September 12, 2018, now seems a good time for Apple to join the touch revolution it started. If not, Apple may forever remain out of touch while Microsoft's touch-centric philosophy leads us into the future.

Jason L Ward is a columnist at Windows Central. He provides unique big picture analysis of the complex world of Microsoft. Jason takes the small clues and gives you an insightful big picture perspective through storytelling that you won't find *anywhere* else. Seriously, this dude thinks outside the box. Follow him on Twitter at @JLTechWord. He's doing the "write" thing!

141 Comments
  • Great article! I have been saying this for years.
  • I was thinking the same thing about iPad Pros when he made the comment about reaching up the screen not being ergonomic and being tiresome and a poor experience. It's interesting that they are so against a form factor that they have been pushing so hard in another one of their products.
  • iOS touch > Windows 10 touch Windows 10 touch > MacOS
  • Well put Jason.
  • Thanks a lot Nate👍🏿
  • Jason, why the title change? The original was more accurate. Did Rene corner you?
  • Mere opinions. I'd never want a touch laptop. And Windows itself isn't that great for touch, either.
  • The Surface Hub there and the Surface Studio are great examples of devices that really benefit from touch that are not laptops. The world is not made for just one kind of device.
  • And tens of people bought those.....
  • Nope. The Surface Hub sells so fast they can barely make them quick enough
  • It's not that they sell fast (they don't), it's that they don't make a lot.
  • Not agreeing or disagreeing with either one of you, but do you have sales numbers and manufacturing numbers to back up your claim or are you just saying what fits the narrative?
  • There were numbers back in 2016 for the first Surface Hub.
    2000 customers with an average deal size of 50 units, so about 100,000 units in 2016. With a price of $8,999 for the 55-inch version and $21,999 for the 84-inch Surface Hub, I'd say it's pretty impressive numbers. https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/microsoft-surface/86620/microsoft-clarif... With cheaper price points for the new version, I'm sure it is going to do well too.
  • They made enough for many who could afford it and it sold out very fast.
  • You know they sold more than 100,000 units of the old version right?
    No of course you don't. Else you wouldn't have made this "smart" comment.
  • I was going to say saint4eva should click on the link in your comment. When you sell 100,000 units of a conservative $12,500 for a giant PC = $1.25B 2 years ago sale, that is a whole lot for one unique form factor.
  • I didn't want one either, but when I went to buy a laptop "last minute" the best deal was on a laptop that had a touchscreen. Didn't use it a lot, but I did use it. When I upgraded from that to a Surface, it was for the inking and note taking, but I started using touch more and more. I still mostly use keyboard and mouse, but it's nice to have the touch option to complement the whole experience when using a device. I'm not sure you would have the same experience I did, but I did have the same opinion/attitude as you and it has changed once I started actually using a device that had the option. I liken it to "fast charging" on tech devices (phone, tablet, bluetooth speaker, etc). I didn't know how good it was until I had fast charging devices, and now I get frustrated with devices that don't have it.
  • What a silly thing to say... Touch laptops and more importantly convertibles are and will continue to be the norm as more form factors take shape in the years to come. To be stuck uma touch less world is just dumb
  • And, the fact you do not have, nor ever will have, any concrete experience means YOU have only an opinion? I'll rely on my personal experience in actually using both kinds of devices and say touch is contagious.
  • ! :-)
    I want a Surface Go and Studio 2.
  • If you can afford a studio 2, can't you get a pro?
  • it's just weird that apple really kicked off the idea of touch and UI that supports it with iPhone, then purposely left their mac os in the stone ages.
  • My Lenovo has a touch screen and I literally never use it though. It doesn’t feel natural to me
  • that's odd, on Surface Book the touch screen works great and feels totally natural
  • I frequently use touch on my Surface Pro. To me, it just fits my workflow. I suppose we're all different and we do what best fits us. I will say, that there is no requirement to use touch even when its available, such as on most modern Windows 10 PCs. But I think that in the long run its advantageous to at least provide the option and let users simply choose how or whether they'll use touch.
  • I have a SP4 and only use the type cover to fresh install Windows 10. Touch on Windows 10 is natural to me.
  • This particular description is actually in line with Apple's Johnny Ive. You should be fine with touch if you hold the device, but as soon as you mostly work on the keyboard you've got the problem, you'll want to command from the keyboard, not from the screen. I don't think there's anything strange in that.
  • So then the TouchBar, being a secondary touch area after the Touchpad contradicts this!
  • right, so things you can't just easily command from the keyboard, you simply touch on the screen instead of scrolling a pointer around from a trackpad
  • In macOS, one of Apple's focus areas has been to subsume control items that you would normally "click" in favor of trackpad gestures and multitouch. Just the basic window control boxes would need to be completely redesigned - they're barely accessible with a mouse/trackpad.
  • yeah, apple needs to make those windows control boxes bigger. if MS can do it in Win 10 I'm sure Apple can
  • Apple's stubborn stance on not including touch into their desktop OS is reminiscent their stubborn insistence on a 1 button mouse.
  • Except you’re wrong. Their mouse is two button with multitouch gestures. It makes sense to have it that way on a desktop. They were also far earlier then Microsoft in creating a usable multi touch Trackpad experience. Touch simply doesn’t make sense on a desktop or laptop form factor. It’s incredibly niche. And as a platform UWP isn’t capable of delivering both powerful apps and touch centric usability. The apps are worse than iPad apps due to API gaps and the form factors are often worse for touch on top of that.
  • Uh, yeah, but Apple insisted on a one-button mouse for years and years ... It was completely stupid ...
  • And yet it works. So it means something right?
  • No it does not work, if it did why did Apple got rid of that solution?
  • Wrong. It's not niche at all. It's the present and future of all computing. But as an isheep you follow the herd.
  • @Steve Adams. Congratulations you are the ONLY person in this entire thread to resort to the childish language of 'isheep'. That actually encourages me because it means that Jason is speaking to a thoughtful audience rather than just some mindless Microsoft fanbois. I'm thinking Godwin's law needs to be refined for discussions surrounding Apple. Eventually someone will resort to that schoolyard insult.
  • Hi Ed, I use all platforms, he comes in stating apple is the be all end all in here quite regularly. He is an isheep. I can call him much worse actually, but chose not to.
  • "Touch simply doesn’t make sense on a desktop or laptop form factor. It’s incredibly niche."
    Not sure I entirely disagree, but there are numerous examples of laptops that can be used in other configurations, tent, tablet, and even desktop monitors that support touch making kiosks and Surface Studio-like devices. A laptop without a touch screen is perfectly usable with either Win 10 or MocOS of course, but the fact the Win OS has the capability offers more possibilities to be realized in the hardware. You won't find Apple making a convertible or 2-1 Macbook because it would be useless in those configurations. So all you get is a basic laptop, albeit a beautiful one, and that is just fine without touch. I have Surfaces, touch screen HPs and MacBooks. I do use the touch on the Win 10 devices when appropriate or convenient, but I don't miss it on the Mac's. The OS neither lends itself to it nor cries out for it. What I find more interesting is my Chromebook in which the hardware sports a touch screen, but the OS really wasn't designed for it. It is reminiscent of the early days of XP Tablet Edition where touch was largely using your finger or stylus as if it were the mouse.
  • "It is reminiscent of the early days of XP Tablet Edition where touch was largely using your finger or stylus as if it were the mouse." When I see people using touch on Windows devices it is as a glorified mouse. That's me. I suspect I'd find a touch Chrome book just as useful as my Windows touch laptop. Of course I spend 95% of my time in Chrome on Windows so it wouldn't be any different anyway :) Microsoft doesn't provide useful gestures so there isn't much added value. On the few occasions that I use Apple computers I do not really miss touch at all because their touchpads are so amazing. But, I have found myself wanting to touch an Apple screen.
  • Uau dude you are completely lost... Touch works very well in windows 10 except if you are using a very old x86 program. Even then touch works very well for snapping programs/apps. Maximizing, minimizing, switching apps, etc. Oh and it's much better for web browsing.
  • Lol did you just call touch laptops and convertibles niche? Hilarious
  • My guess is your not a programmer, because UWP is absolutely powerful enough to deliver the apps, it just doesn't have strong developer mindshare to see many of them yet. You can write an entire program in C if you wanted to. UWP strength isn't the problem, developer interest is.
  • "Touch simply doesn’t make sense on a desktop or laptop form factor." Kool-Aid anyone? Niche? Gazillions of happy touchscreen laptop owners make your "niche" assertion sound comedic. But hey, different strokes. Keep on worshiping at the altar of the fruit ;-)
  • Doesn't make sense... yeah, right. I continually use touch to make selections/choices on a laptop that are just a pain to have to do on a touch pad; scrolling and the like. It's also a lot more natural to point towards a screen and return to a keyboard than to hope you get to the right place on a touch pad and then try to locate the cursor and then try and do what would already have been completed with that simple touch.
  • "is reminiscent their stubborn insistence on a 1 button mouse" Apple's Mac operating system has supported two button mice since the introduction of USB in 1998 and maybe even before (I can't remember). Apple's mice themselves have all been TWO BUTTONS since the mid (or was that early?) 2000's... However, a one button mouse is easier to use which is why the default has been one button operation. I've seen my elderly parents struggle with two button mice. I even put a one button Apple mouse on my mother's Windows laptop and it made her very happy!
  • "I even put a one button Apple mouse on my mother's Windows laptop and it made her very happy!" And, I frequently see teenagers struggle with the concept of right click on Windows desktops. Some of them don't really get what the right click is for and it confuses them to no end.
  • And these same teenagers can manage a 37 button game controller..bizarre.
  • And, some people can't deal with computers at all, so we all go back to land lines and semaphores? Don't see much point in just doing what some money machine like Apple decides is best for you when I don't see anything innovative coming out of their laptop or desktop lines that would justify such 'faith'.
  • Apple was the first to bring an ultrabook not too long ago. That was a bigger innovation than touchscreens.
  • Apple says "If you want touch then You aren't using it right!"
  • Apple says if you want to touch it, buy an iPad.
  • I have both SP4 and iPad Pro, I use them in the laptop form 99.99% of the times. The only time I use touchscreen 99% of the times is the smaller smartphones such as iPhone and Android, bigger than that, I default to keyboard/trackpad. I barely ever use the touchscreen on the SP4, only the trackpad. If Apple could just support trackpad on iPad Pro keyboard, I'd be happier. SP4 is the last Windows laptop I'd ever buy, I'll go regular laptops from now on. Frankly, touchscreens in regular laptop use-cases doesn't work at all for me. Now, switch to tablet, iPad beats the crap out of SP4 for me. The apps are designed for it and it works well. It's just when I need to work, SP4 beats the crap out of iPad Pro in keyboard/mouse form. It is all about the form factor. Laptops and desktops, touchscreen doesn't work well. Whiteboard, yes, smartphone, tablet, yes.
  • "SP4 is the last Windows laptop I'd ever buy, I'll go regular laptops from now on."
    What does that mean? A regular laptop is not a Windows laptop? Or are you saying you would opt for non-touch if you are buying a laptop?
  • He meant Microsoft laptop, I suspect. Otherwise, his experience matches mine to a t. Touch on my Windows devices has been a gimmick at best or downright atrocious for the tablet only devices. However, I do use the touch occasionally and appreciate its existence. But, if I had to choose between absolutely great touchpad and great touch screen I'd go with touchpad. It would see far more use than a touch screen. Apple is 100% right to devote THEIR Mac R&D resources to conventional desktops. Microsoft's Windows is facing a faster decline into irrelevance than is Apple's Mac because Apple has iOS, the most profitable mobile OS by a wide margin. When Microsoft lost the low end mobile OS market to Android through inertia and the high end to Apple through hubris Microsoft was forced to touchify Windows. Sadly they tried to keep a foot in the mobile door rather than accept defeat and focus on creating a great touch desktop experience. For me touch on Windows is an exercise in frustration. The edge gestures are all useless. There is no good gesture based way to switch apps. Touch keyboard was really really really bad until last year and still is just plain bad. By comparison, I can type all of this whole post on my AOSP Lineage OS phone with Google's gesture typing. I really wish Apple would get its act together on desktop touch because it would then give Microsoft something to copy so they could finally make Windows touch good! Since Windows is my platform of choice finally getting good touch support on the desktop would make me happy.
  • "The edge gestures are all useless. There is no good gesture based way to switch apps."
    Doing a lot of edge gestures brings out the discoverability nay-sayers. In any case swiping in from the left brings up essentially alt-tab and a tap on the desired app focuses it. Works for me, though you may not characterize it as good. You can still close apps by swiping from the top to the bottom. That's more functional in a tablet/2-1 than a desktop as most such gestures are. In from the right has promise, but I think it could benefit from more user customization. I don't use the settings that much, but might like the calendar or the ink workspace when I swipe in rather than settings and notifications.
  • MS needs to improve the tablet experience but it is good so far. I do believe some think touch on Windows is a gimmick because of preference but also I believe some of it is related to how MS executed it, which is good right now but it can be better, especially if it is to compete with the iPad and iOS experience.
  • I find myself reaching up reflexively to touch the screen on some of my older laptops all the damn time LOL. ...as for "Microsoft's implementation, though unique and ambitious, is also imperfect. Windows 10's touch-focused Tablet Mode leaves much to be desired." Microsoft already has a very nice touch screen UI. W8.1. I miss the Charms bar all the stinkin' time in my updated-to-W10 Surface Pro 2. W10 desktop mode is brilliant. But W10 tablet mode was a huge step back.
  • "Microsoft already has a very nice touch screen UI. W8.1." Correction. Microsoft already HAD a very nice touch screen UI.
  • Please elaborate what did Windows 8.1 UI make you think it was better than Windows 10 tablet mode. I think Windows 8.1 was a schizophrenic design, going to desktop mode to Start Menu was the worst thing on a non touch laptop.
    On the other side, Windows 10 tablet mode gets triggered on/off depending on your device if you have a keyboard or if you don't.
  • @Gabriel Hernandez5 I was no fan of either 8 or 8.1 (and that's me being polite) but do quite like 10 in desktop mode. The few times I used Windows 8 or 8.1 on a touch device I didn't mind it for the actual touch experience. The OS itself was terrible. Windows 10 touch is a completely different story. I really dislike using touch on my Windows devices other than in the classic sense as being an alternate to a mouse. If you've ever used an interactive whiteboard you'll understand how I use Windows 10 touch... It's a glorified mouse. Nothing special. I'd rather have a good touchpad than a touch screen to be honest (luckily I do even if Microsoft's gestures aren't quite as good as Apple's). I would LOVE to use Windows 10 screen edge touch gestures but the problem is that Microsoft doesn't provide any useful ones (Blackberry Playbook app switching, I'm looking at you :( and Microsoft refuses to let us users customize them to make them useful. This leaves us with three useless ones. App switcher that's poorly designed and doesn't support virtual desktops in touch mode. A completely useless notifications area. And a way to snap or close apps that's almost as useless as the notifications area.
  • Interesting. I don't feel near as disappointed by the edge gestures. I noted that earlier. I noted one interesting point on virtual desktops. Didn't notice I couldn't get there via touch. That said, I don't use that much. That is a fairly new feature in Windows for mainstream Windows users, though Mac has had it for years. Ignoring that, a feature I haven't made great use of, I find app/task switching just fine via touch. Just conjecture. I imagine Macs tend/tended to be predominantly laptops, so virtual desktops made a lot of sense. (I use them to segregate Parrallels VMs)Windows machines were historically more desktop based so multiple, 2/3, monitors were common and multiple desktops were less commonly used.
  • Read Zac Bowden article about this. He's of the same opinion.
  • @brdavis9 "W10 desktop mode is brilliant. But W10 tablet mode was a huge step back." 100% agreement!
  • Microsoft's Tablet Mode leaves EVERYTHING to be desired. Windows 8 was infinitely better for touch devices. Windows 10 is, without question, USER-SPITEFUL. And I knew it would be, once the old desktop-centric Neanderthals got their way.
  • So just curious, what's different from tablet mode than Windows 8.1 ? I've had both OS and I like much more Windows 10.
    If you're talking about Windows Phone UI, then that's a different story
  • Being able to quickly switch apps by swiping from the left. I wish they'd bring that back. Other than that windows 10 is better
  • While DRDiver is a big proponent of Windows 8.0, he is correct. Windows 8.0 was/is a good tablet/touch OS. Lots of gestures that don't exist in Windows 10. Windows 8.1 was great. W10M has about caught up to 8.1.
  • Crystal Clear. :)
  • I disagree. Apples' approach is the correct one. There is little or no benefit from a touch screen on a laptop or desktop. From an ergonomic perspective, moving back and forth from the keyboard to the screen is way less efficient than a keyboard and mouse. I personally would not want to smear my laptop or desktop screen with my fingers. Microsoft's attempts to implement touch in Windows has had little success. They had to drop out of the smartphone market and I would bet that the majority of Surface Pro owners use them as laptops and not as tablets. iOS and Android were designed from the ground up to support touch and focus on traditional smartphone/tablet features and content consumption. Windows was designed for mouse and keyboard with a focus on productivity/content creation. While both OS types can operate outside of their focus areas, they are generally not good at doing so. I believe that is why Apple continues to maintain separate OSs (touch and non-touch) for smartphones/tablets and laptop/desktops. They want to be the best in each focus area.
  • I use touch screen all the time on surface book with Win 10 and Office 2016. it's pretty nice and convenient. just tapping something rather than having to move the mouse pointer to it with the trackpad. mac os should start doing that
  • "moving back and forth from the keyboard to the screen is way less efficient than a keyboard and mouse"
    Do you really think it is that significantly different, moving my hand from the keyboard to a screen within inches of it on a laptop, or between the keyboard and a mouse that is off to the left or right of the keyboard. In that scenario, I actually find it more efficient to use the track pad, and love having a decent one. Until recently, decent ones, were found on Macs. Windows OEMs have really stepped up of late.
  • Well, it depends. The thing is: Microsoft let us choose which i/o to use. For Apple, it's chosen for you.
  • They do have 2 out of three, touchpad and mouse. Arguably great ones too. Touch/pen is relatively new to Windows and still divisive. (if you ignore the vestigile XP Tablet edition legacy)
  • OK, so it's just 'moral superiority' arguments at this point for the Apple laptop crowd, I see. Got both, and I prefer the MS/HP with touch as an option, instead of the huge markup on the Apple with a lagging the power curve performance history over the last several years. The one Apple laptop I like is the old Air, which gives me all the ports I want instead of only the 'perfect design'/'buy OUR dongles/buy our EarPods' ports. However, as others have observed, the day Apple brings out a touch screen computer it will be greeted as if it were The Second Coming of Stevie for metaphysical purity in all things computing.
  • I have seen this story repeated several times in the past. One person commented that the MacOS is based on an old "system" that makes it quite difficult to integrate touch. I don't know if that is true. Maybe the cost of integrating Touch into OSX would be high and the impact on the existing application ecosystem for OSX would be severe. Who knows.
  • Windows should come to the cars and smart tv
  • Umm no. Let the pros do it.
  • Windows on a stick is thousands better than a SmartTV, you just need to plug-in a USB webcam and you can have video calls using your TV.
    The problem with Microsoft always has been marketing, but they have smartest people in the tech industry.
  • They had some of the smartest people...until that imbecile fired them to cut costs.
  • Nice article. Windows 10 definitely needs to polish its touch and gesture experience, but the fact that it even exists makes MacOS look like the Stone Age. I reflexively touch the screen. So does my septugenerian mother - and she doesn't even have a touchscreen on her Chrome-based desktop (she does have an Android tablet).
    Of course, at some point Apple will "invent" the mouse for a tablet, and we'll have a "revolution" "for the first time ever" etc.
  • "For Microsoft, touch is natural and immersive". LOL, dream on. Windows 10 tablet mode is a joke. "Apple's CEO Tim Cook adamantly asserts that bringing touch to its PC platform is like merging a refrigerator and toaster." He is correct. I don't see anyone but Jason proclaiming that computing needs to "merge". Have Toyotas and 18 wheel trucks "merged? Have 1,000 degree brick pizza ovens "merged" with microwave ovens? Have Caterpillar D9 crawler dozers "merged" with a hand shovel? Have IBM mainframes "merged" with Apple watches? Of course not. Different tools for different jobs. The Mac line is doing just fine. iPads are the standard of the tablet world. iPhones are the most-wanted devices on the planet. Why you think this all needs to "merge" is beyond rational. Just because Microsoft is desperately trying (and failing, BTW) to "merge" phones and Windows PCs - in a last ditch attempt to remain relevant in a mobile world - is no reason for Apple to crawl into the same hole. Apple "out of touch"? Dream on again.
  • OMG have oranges and airliners merged? Have asteroids and my pinky finger? Beagles and skyscrapers???? Preposterous!!!!! Inconceivable!!!!!!
  • If you think Windows tablet mode is a joke I want to make an easy challenge or if you prefer a money bet, try installing Bluestacks on a Surface Pro and measure the gaming performance of Fortnite on best Android tablet of 2018 and on the Surface Pro, and you'll see its faster on Surface Pro.
    The clue here is that Intel architecture is able to emulate light games like Fortnite which were made for tiny phones.
  • Holy, what's the point? That Surface tablet mode is stronger than a tablet? A full desktop processor compared to a mobile processor? And for gaming, nonetheless? I really, really, really failed to get your point here. The OP is right, Windows tablet mode is terrible. And I'm not even talking about your average off the mill device. It is a Surface Book 2 15", the strongest Surface Book yet, which costs you USD2,500++. The tablet and touch experience suck, bar none. Everything is slow, laggy and not usable. I have stopped using the tablet mode, aside from the ink, which is why I moved from an iPad Pro in the first place, for work entirely after the first month. It says something for a device this expensive.
  • @Gabriel Hernandez5 "If you think Windows tablet mode is a joke I want to make an easy challenge" Umm. Umm. Ummm. Huh? What does your challenge have to do with WINDOWS touch? You're installing an ANDROID emulator and using the performance of ANDROID to imply that touch on WINDOWS is anything but mediocre?
  • He is barking about bluestacks that is a half baked solution of having proper apps on a touch suck experience OS with no proper touch apps :)). The experience using bluestacks is at most half baked, but he seems pretty comfortable with that. Then I question why isn't MS even trying to deliver something good; it's obvious, when users like him are ok with half baked crap
  • Do you even know iPad pro is a 2-in-1?
  • Yea, much like most cell phones these days are 2 in 1s. You can connect BT keyboards to them, and mice in the case of Android (and Windows Phone). You can even send all their screens to bigger displays. The Pro moniker is pretty meaningless in reality, for iOS or Windows devices. If you make your living doing something, you are a professional. If you do it with a workstation, iPad or pencil and paper, those are 'pro' tools. Those are all marketing terms to imply something.
  • :)) get ready to be bashed by ms fanboys, for just telling the truth...that hurts :)
  • My current laptop has a touchscreen. Any time I have used the touchscreen functionality has been by accident. I hate it and to make it worse I cannot easily turn it off. Options are a good thing and manufacturers seem to be forgetting that. I'm totally cool with people liking touchscreens, I am also totally cool with people not liking them. I wish that computers that come with them would also include with an easy way to toggle the functionality on and off so the user could decide for themselves if they want it or not.
  • "I hate it and to make it worse I cannot easily turn it off. " Have you tried removing the driver or disabling the hardware in the Device Manager? You may be able to disable touch that way.
  • ...and so Microsoft dumped their brilliant Nokia Lumia tablets & smartphones!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The mind boggles.
  • Lumia tablets suck, they're just a tablet with Windows RT, you want an OS that can have it all, then use Windows 10. I have a 2 in 1 and is great for playing Android games thanks to Bluestacks 3 which is really impressive how fast it is and how good it uses the Windows 10 OS resources that makes your tablet feel like you're using a flagship Samsung Android tablet (Snapdragon 845)
  • "Lumia tablets suck, they're just a tablet with Windows RT"
    They were, but that was what there was. They could have advanced (morphed) along with Windows. I can imagine my Lumia 2520 with Surface Go or HP Envy X2 guts today and it would be a very nice device. The keyboard/battery cover could have stayed the same. It's not super different than Apple's iPad Pro keyboard cover, but with extra battery and two USB ports.
  • You keep talking about bluestacks, when it's obvious it is a half baked solution with half baked performance. Windows 10 SUCKS at touch, big time! Using bluestacks does not even come close to using a real tablet with Android...but then again, MS fanboys are used to half baked crap.
  • I personally like having touch on my laptops. I don't use it a lot, but enough to miss it when it's not there.
  • Apple is worried about people's arms getting tired using a touch-screen? Every person I have ever met who uses an iPad has a dock that stands it up in front of a Bluetooth keyboard, but it makes for a poor and expensive PC experience. Apple says we are in the post-PC age. Yet their iPad gets used as a PC, and they continue to deny this. Sadly, Apple could sell a bucket with a hole in the bottom by calling it an iBucket and tying it in to their ridiculous propaganda machine, which preys on those who can't see through it and have too much money to spend.
  • Yes, and that's the advantage of 2 in 1 devices, that you can use them both as a tablet or as a laptop and you don't have to pay twice like in Apple.
    If you're one of those guys that wishes iOS or Android games could be played on Windows, you can do that with Bluestacks. I recommend version 3 which allows really fast performance and full screen support, nobody will notice you're using Windows.
  • "Yet their iPad gets used as a PC, and they continue to deny this."
    Deny this? Have you missed their marketing? They are embracing it. They in fact have an iPad Pro line just for this. They in fact make a pretty compelling argument, especially when MS helps them out with cloud services, Office, OneDrive, Skype, Teams, et al. that make an iPad pretty viable for a significant segment of even business users.
  • It took Microsoft time to adapt Windows to touch. This goes at least as far back as Windows 7. That being so, is there any sign of incremental progress by Apple towards a touch solution in Mac OS? I doubt they could introduce it overnight despite their secrecy, because of the time that the public takes exploring successive iterations until something workable comes about, as Microsoft found.
  • I do agree with some people on this thread that Windows 10 touch mode offers no good alternative vs the iPad which has much larger ecosystem, so my advice is to get Bluestacks. All you need is a decent consumer CPU like the Pentium N4200, 4GB of RAM and a large hard drive and you can install dozens of Android games on your 2 in 1 device.
  • Windows 7? Not old enough to recall XP tablet edition? They've been pushing this noodle since 2002.
  • I recently installed Bluestacks 3 on my Windows 2 in 1 (Surface Go similar Pentium CPU) , 4 GB of RAM and 500GB hard drive.
    I found I was able to use my Windows 10 device as an Android tablet and play some games that occupy a lot of storage space.
    Bluestacks 3 is really great stuff and a good way to use your 2 in 1 both as an Android tablet and as a Windows device.
  • "Microsoft's implementation, though unique and ambitious, is also imperfect. Windows 10's touch-focused Tablet Mode leaves much to be desired." Jason, you drive me nuts. You mix great insight like the paragraph above with a full paragraph of gratuitous click bait Apple bashing. While there is much to commend touch Microsoft's version of it on Windows 10 is NOT great. Apple is 100% right to not bring touch to their desktop computers YET. Microsoft's is not taking the world by storm. It's little more than a gimmick. There are many things that would make touch with MUCH better for me on Windows 10 and they all involve adopting behaviors from other touch OSes and ditching many that are integral to Windows 10. For example, lose the AWFUL notifications pane. It sucks rocks and I've never found a use for it. Early on I used to put those little settings widgets on there and kind of used them. Now I find that I've forgotten about them because I'VE STOPPED USING MY WINDOWS TABLETS because my Android tablets are so much nicer to use for touch! Instead, adopt the app switching behavior of BlackBerry's Playbook. I seem to remember it was swipe down to activate app switcher and left or right to switch apps. Windows has too many edge gestures and they're not logical or related. Pull all the way down to close (unimportant... apps should be put to sleep if not used). Useless. Swipe right for app switcher? Not particularly useful but it is perhaps the best of really bad. Swipe left for notifications? Really? My desktop is NOT my communication device so stop pretending it is! I HATE the notifications area and I can't turn it off. Anyway, the point of my rant is that Jason full well understands that Apple is right to not fear Microsoft's half baked implementation of desktop touch. Apple is also right to sit out this experiment. Sure, Microsoft isn't afraid of an experiment but its customers are! Windows 8 was better than 10 for touch but was completely rejected by the market.
  • Hi Ed🙂 A rant indeed. You simply itemized my general statement about Microsoft's implementation of touch. In fact I said before and will say again, I preferred Windows 8.1 touch over most of how Windows 10 implements touch. You grabbed the follow excerpt and stated: "Microsoft's implementation, though unique and ambitious, is also imperfect. Windows 10's touch-focused Tablet Mode leaves much to be desired." Jason, you drive me nuts. You mix great insight like the paragraph above with a full paragraph of gratuitous click bait Apple bashing. While there is much to commend touch Microsoft's version of it on Windows 10 is NOT great. Now, I wouldn't qualify my arguments as gratuitous Apple bashing. It is absolutely true that Apple condemns touch in a desktop/laptop scenario, but aggressively positions touch-centric, mousless, iPad Pro in the same scenario as a laptop competitor. I also shared a very valid and undeniable point that Apple publically critizes the pioneering risks others take until they feel they can do it better. They slammed Samsung for large-screen phablets, touting the benefits of tiny iPhones, while they secretly developed a larger iPhone to bring to market. They critized the stylus/pen until the debuted thier eraserless Pencil ✏. They critcied mini tablets, while they developed iPad mini. So the precedent here isn't that Apple somehow has a philosophically opposing stance against the tech it criticizes and pretends to oppose. It simply puts on a public show of stating various tech ideas are inferior or impractical until they're ready to implement the same idea thier way. So again, the precedent isn't that Apple opposes ideas it publically criticizes like touch in a desktop/laptop, it just pretends they're bad ideas until they can implement the same idea in a way they feel is better.
  • Agreed 100% Jason. I use iOS for my mobile platform. Until apple can give me a 2 in 1 Macbook Pro with full touch and pencil support I am not going to even look at them. Oh, a 27 Imac with folding stand and pencil/touch support as well.
  • I loved my Surface Pro 3 when it ran Windows 8.1 - Microsoft got touch perfect then (if not everything else). Windows 10 ruined that experience, and I'm afraid I lost interest in the hybrid vision. I'm now a MacBook Pro driver, and I think Apple have got the laptop touch interface just right, by putting it in the excellent touchpad, not the screen. For example, I constantly swipe between desktops with gestures, as I would have done with full screen apps in Windows 8.1 on the Surface. Meanwhile, sliding in from the right edge on the touchpad, pulls out the notification centre. Sliding back closes it again. Just how it used to be with the Charms bar in Windows 8.1 (it's still broken in Windows 10). Only a few Windows laptops like the Surface Book and Surface laptop have a comparable trackpad experience, so I think it's something you really have to experience to appreciate fully. The MacBook Pro's touchpad really provides everything I need from a touch interface (minus pen input, which I used heavily on the Surface Pro in Windows 8.1), without the smeary screen. All that said, this MacBook Pro is equipped with a touchbar as well, about which the opposite is true. It doesn't offer any added value, and is basically a gimmick.
  • Pretty much all those gestures are on Windows 10. Three finger slide left/right toggles between apps, three figure swipe up brings up timeline, three finger down minimises the app. Four finger tap opens up the action center. Also you are dismissing all the occasions where a touch screen is a million times better than a trackpad such as using websites - probably the most common activity for most people
  • Thanks. Sure wish there was a way for MSFT to teach people these helpful gestures. I wonder as the young kids (20 and younger) use new technology, they may not worry about using gestures to interact with technology. I watch my mother in law, and she is worried that if she touches something on a computer, she will break it.
  • I was going to say as well, everything you can do on Macbook touchpad, you can do on any Windows based notebook.
  • Yes, I acknowledged those gestures in Windows 10, available on laptops with precision trackpad, like Surface Book and Surface Laptop. And that's a good thing, because Windows 10 is not a touch-optimised OS, and that's my point. I was a Surface nut in the days of Win 8.1, constantly talking up its superiority to iOS and Android to my bemused colleagues. Windows 8.1 on a touch-first device like a Surface was seriously well thought out, everything accessible without having to lift your fingers from the screen. e.g. Charm Bar under your thumb to share an article, replaced in Windows 10 with a hamburger menu in top left corner in some apps, and elsewhere in others. In short, Microsoft has jettisoned all the features that made it so great for touch, in order to win back the ordinary desktop users they alienated with Windows 8. I still have my Surface Pro 3, but have to attach the Type Cover whenever I need to do anything other than browsing the web. Apple has taken an altogether different approach to touch on laptops, which works extremely well. The fact that Microsoft is working so hard to improve the touchpad experience on Windows laptops is perhaps confirmation that Apple is onto something,
  • Agree with touch bar is an expensive gimmick. Also, agree that Apple's touchpad can emulate the touch experience due to how smooth and good their trackpad is. I have never used an external mouse with my [then] MacBook, even wor a heavy load word processing, spreadsheet or powerpoint. With Windows, even with the Windows precision touchpad, it is still a long way to Apple's touchpad UX. And not even a Surface Book is comparable in my book. I have the 15" SB2, and I kept using my Logitech MX mouse for a decent working experience. As for touch experience? Windows tablet mode is terrible. And I'm not even talking about an average device. It is a Surface Book 2 15", the strongest Surface Book yet, which costs me USD2,500++. The tablet and touch experience suck, bar none. Everything is slow, laggy and not usable. I have stopped using the tablet mode, aside from the ink, which is why I moved from an iPad Pro in the first place, for work entirely after the first month. It says something for a device this expensive. Before purchasing the SB 2, I thought I would be plagued by the usual issues that many people in the forum have been talking about, battery drain, yadda yadda yadda. But when I have purchased it, the worst experience is not something that I have ever imagined before, the touch UX. For a device that sells its hybrid device, for a premium, it is unacceptable. What could be a solution for this? Microsoft needs to work their asses to fix the high-DPI issue in a high-resolution laptop, and other performance fixes, especially for their flagship Surface Book device. It IS horrible...
  • They need to bring Steven Sinofsky back.
  • Apple can't improve the UX beyond icons, so they berated it and seek to undermine it. Yet, at the same time force touch on users with their nonsensical ipad "pro". The fact of the matter is that Microsoft got the touch UX spot on with live tiles. Nor Apple or Google can improve on it without directly copying the UX. So to move forward in terms of interaction, it has to be a conversational form of interaction. If my 40" TV was touch screen, I'd have no qualms in using a full screen start menu (screen) but it's not. So therefore it's more efficient for me to use the task bar with a mouse and occasionally use the start menu. I was having a discussion with a family member and he is all in with Apple. Simply because it's "simple" and "you don't need much to do your work". That sort of mentality is pervasive and is why Apple sells countless devices; in a closed garden, the lack of choice really mean's most don't have to think beyond what's offered. Which is an alarming precedent as it removes foresight and causes critical thinking to atrophy. Loss of linguistic skills (why something like grammarly exists) and with the reduction of face to face conversation, loss of emotional intelligence and empathic abilities which in turn draws a person's thoughts without a filter (current political climate has been a catalyst on this point). Empathy and understanding becomes replaced by projection of bias and self entitlement. Hence the subconcious thought and now widely term of "isheep". I am starting to see many, many kids who have grown up being nurtured with smartphones as opposed to conversations and tactile toys such as rattles, toy keyboards etc have slower development in terms of communication skills as well as reduced concentration levels. This doesn't mean they have diminished intelligence, it means they are ill equiped to deal with conflicting views and unable to form associative barriers when it comes to right and wrong (hence the mini tantrums and addictive behaviour to fortnite for example). However, due to children's innate ability to see good in people that is counter balanced and centres their ability back to be able to form complex opinions and conflict resolution. It is that which enables them to grow as a person when they go to school. As they are in an environment where conflict resolution is a must to ensure they make friends, get to play with other kid's toys and share happy moments. This enables then to be more empathic and understanding of others. In short, a smartphone is a tool to enable you to be productive just like a tablet like an ipad, but it's not a replacement from parenting. There are far reaching consequences of any operating system depending on how they are utilised. Over simplification leads to regression, complexity and critical thinking leads to progression. The loom, automation, the transistor, capacitors, electricity etc are all complex. People may say I am looking to much into this, perhaps but one cannot simply bury their heads in the sand like an ostrich and pretend nothing is interconnected. Everything and anything is interconnected. Nothing is truly free there is always a cost in some shape or form.
  • The original vision behind the Live Tiles was simplicity - remember those "Really?" Windows Phone ads in 2010, which took aim at early smartphone addiction / distraction. Simplicity was also key to Windows 8, with the ubiquitous Charms Bar always under your thumb, for oh-so easy access to all your common tasks. The reason this vision of simplicity didn't take off was purely because Microsoft was late to the game with their touch-first interface, meaning that the masses had already learnt how a touch interface "should" behave.... i.e. rows of icons and a home button. Ironically, while Microsoft has jettisoned most of those features that made Windows 8 great for touch, similar features have begun appearing in iOS and Android. Alas, many of us former Windows Phone users seem to be waiting in vain for Microsoft to produce a Live Tiles Android launcher (Microsoft Launcher doesn't come close). Simplification doesn't have to lead to regression. I'd much rather scribble a note with a Biro than etch cuneiform records into a tablet of clay. I'd much rather put my clothes in a washing machine than use a washing board and a mangle. But completely agree: a smartphone is no substitute for parenting, and tends to be a counter-productive pacifier in the long run. Still, you are right: everything is indeed interconnected.
  • I read recently where a BBC broadcaster argument against supposedly rumored Samsung bendable or folding phone is whether Samsung is forcing this form factor or idea on consumers to see if it catches on or is it consumer demand driven? Apple have historically forced their will on their consumers. They remove features (headphone jack from iphone , etc) or adamantly late in introducing features/form factors, (wireless charging, no sdcard slots, No mouse support for iPad, phablet makes no sense, 2 in 1 devices are evil, etc)… Interestingly when all these happens, their fans / customer base defends Apple (vigorously I might add), when others, other than Apple do these kind of things hell breaks loose just like the BBC guy. Apple even sometimes join in bashing these OEMs until they later start making these offering they had just bashed like iPad pro with keyboard and Pencil, Massive phablets. It begs the question, What is Apple bedrock of? when it comes with features and form factors that are good for consumers? Maybe if it is offered by Apple, it is value added, if offered my others it is useless. I'll wait until the day Apple sneaks in touch input on their Mac line.
  • We all know that what Apple claims is complete crap. Touch on a laptop is not for everyone and for even fewer on a desktop I would think, but there are still plenty of people who want it and, I'm sure, many who don't realise they want it but would if they had the opportunity to use it. I think the real reason that Apple won't put touch on Macs is that they don't think that they could easily adapt OS X to work well with touch. That's a legitimate concern. The Windows UI was redesigned to be touch-friendly and it still leaves something to be desired. It's just annoying that Apple have to make these bullshit excuses and falsely criticise others who are making genuine advances rather than just admit that it would be too big a job to redesign their OS to still look the way they want and also work well with touch. It about aesthetics but they continue to insist that they actually know what we want better than we do.
  • I think you probably have something there. MS didn't just wake up and put touch in Win 10. They started this in 2002 with XP Tablet edition. It had good points and possibilities but didn't real click or catch on. Touch has been in Windows since but never focused on until Win 8. I cynically wonder if MS didn't force that extreme shift on consumers to be heroic in backing off and giving us back our Win 7. The side benefit was getting people thinking about touch on Windows and OEMs to building decent touch hardware. Not sure a company he size of MS could or would be as devious, but it's fun to think about. Apple would be starting basically from scratch, although with the benefit of MSs experiences and their own with iOS.
  • I use touch on my laptop everyday in combination with my keyboard and mouse. When I want to read smaller text, I simply pinch and zoom using my left hand. I am so used to a touch screen laptop that I wouldn't want anything else. My work laptop doesn't have a touchscreen and frankly I wish it did. While reading this article and responding I used my touchscreen at least a half dozen times. During the course of a day I use it hundreds and sometimes thousands of times. I don't think its suitable for a lot of repetitive tasks, but for casual usage touch is awesome. Here's a specific use case for touch: Using the Control + key combination to zoom in a browser is really clunky. If you're at the age where you need reading glasses touch is really indispensable on a laptop to make text easier to read at a desired size.
  • In my view the real issue Apple is avoiding is merging the App store with the traditional apple ecosystem. We all know the merge of UWA and x86 has not always been smooth. If Apple launch a touch capable OSX the next question will be: "Where are my IOS apps?" and so Apple will have to bring IOS apps to the OSX environment and will likely be expected by consumers to extend the handoff experience to 3rd party apps: "What do you mean I cannot see my unposted Instagram post on my Mac Book, I took it 30seconds ago on my iPhone". Personally I think this is what they are avoiding.
  • Seems to me they need to keep both distinct to preserve the cashflow from both. Pure business case, nothing to do with the metaphysics of computers Even though both have or are stagnating, added together they still provide the cash needed.
  • You're completely right Jason. Apple is "out of touch". And Microsoft is killing them with their keyboard, keyboard accelerators, multi-button mouse with mouse wheel, touchpad gestures, touch, and pen input operating system. I can kinda see their point though. My former company spent millions of R&D dollars on a pen input based radiology reporting system. The idea was to let the radiologist annotate the medical images with a symbol based language to indicate findings. This would be a radical change to how radiologist dictate reports with just their voice. After about a year into the project, it was canned. The reason; the radiologist couldn't make it through an 8 hour day doing pen input. Their arms got too tired. Radiologists typically use two to four very large 5 MP monitors. The monitors surround them in an arc like fashion and are rotated to be taller than wide. The total screen surface area they work with is huge. This project made me realize a reality about touch and pen input. As screen size goes up, touch input usefulness goes down as duration goes up. So touch works great for small screens. It works great even for larger screens provided duration of use is short. So Apple does have a point, but where they get it wrong is that they don't allow a range of multiple input modes on a single device. Windows can do this and totally rocks for this reason. I once had to supervise software engineers all around the world. I find that I think visually and can communicate things visually. In other words, I would love to be their with my team members with a white board. But I couldn't. I resorted to using a Wacom pen input tablet so I could draw and write. Pen input is a separate type of input over touch because it utilizes fine control from the fingers on the pen. Try free writing with a mouse. It will look like crap. Windows inking now is vastly superior to a pen tablet because their is no dissonance with the pen being displaced from the screen. Pen input has many use cases where it is the best form of input mode. You are starting to see music notation software that takes pen input. If you have ever tried notating sheet music with keyboard and mouse, you know this is tedious. I saw some Microsoft conference where they showed some super cool pen input music notation software. I want that. Also, drawing pictures is super cool on a Windows 2-in-1 device. With behind the times Apple, you have put down your Mac book, then then pick up your iPad to do pen input. Very dumb. I love Windows for this very reason; they can take a wide range of input modes in a single device. Some users have commented that touch is not ergonomic. It depends on what you are doing. I program all day, and I tend toward using the keyboard as much as possible, because I consider the mouse slow. In other words, I am a keyboard accelerator junkie, and I am super fast for this reason. If you ever watch data entry people, they just use the keyboard. Information workers use keyboard and mouse. The mouse is great because it leverages a very small movement to cover the entire screen. Information workers are not going away from mouse and keyboard simply because it is the only input mode that can be sustained in an 8 hour day of information handling. Microsoft kinda of lost sight of this and maybe got swept away with touch in Windows 8. They had to come back to their mouse and keyboard roots with Windows 10, finding a balance by making the tablet and desktop modes more obvious on how to use. Steve Jobs was a complete genius and the world would be a better place if he was still alive. Apple without Steve Jobs is lost now and are not really innovating. When it comes to supporting input modes, Microsoft has now completely kicked their a**.
  • I wonder how much `Touch` will cost on a MacBook Pro?
  • An extra ten-thousand dollars since they have to "BOLT ON A REFRIGERATOR"!
  • I hope Apple keeps ignoring touch for a long time to come. As a Microsoft share holder I really enjoy that fact!
  • I think it ultimately depends on what you're using the devices for and where. If you're not going to have to deal with space as an issue when utilizing your laptop then you have no reason not to only use it in the traditional laptop sense. The reality is not everyone has the luxury of space not being an issue. Try using a laptop on a Navy Ship when you're in your rack (bed for those who don't know the lingo) You simply don't have the space. How about an airplane or train or bus for those of use who travel a lot? This is why the concept of a 2-in-1 was created. If you want the resource of a full desktop OS device with a screen of at least 9inches, but want to have the flexibility to adjust how they interface with it what options does Apple give them? Now a desktop again in the traditional sense wouldn't really have a purpose as a touch screen. However you take the same desktop and now use it as a presentation reference to a group of people, it gives you options of how you want to present the information. It's all about flexibility. MSFT gives you more. Whether you choose to use it, is up to you.
  • Ive: "We take a very different approach in that we genuinely want to make something that's better." Translated: We wait until someone else does the hard work of finding the right solution, then we grab it, slap some apple gloss on it and pretend it's innovative.
  • > merging a refrigerator and toaster.
    Let see how long they can resist. It took... god know how many years (win95 had the feature) for Apple to finally implement resize-window-from-any-corner for Mac OS in 2012. Maybe the same reason why they don't want to implement touch for their Macs (cause Windows did it, so we want to do the opposite). > ATMs, beverage dispensers
    Never thought of it and now that you've mentioned it... Win10 (esp IOT and PC) supporting touch screen make real sense! > I even sometimes touch old PCs thinking they'll register the input
    I have that impulse too. Sometimes the UI's just right there and you can just reach it... touch, drag, pinch, scroll...
  • Yea, Apple look so terrible to people and almost didn't hit 1T being the most valuable company in the universe sitting on a pile of cash bigger than Uncle Scrooge. Oh wait... MS fanboys and MS itself are pathetic as usual
  • LOL :))) make an article like this when Ms decides to offer a proper Touch UI and UX in windows 10...then we'll talk about how their "touch" stuff is immersive and intuitive. How on earth do you consider wincrap 10 mediocre touch experience immersive is beyond me...
  • Works for me sheep. I spent all day yesterday doing graphics and web design for a company here, I was using touch the entire time. Please. Don't speak about what you do not know about.
  • and I spend all day everyday doing that and touch is for people who are not serious (if you are doing programming work) otherwise you will never use it
  • And if you are designing a stage production lighting cuelist then touch is imperative and mouse and keyboard are secondary. Anyone can choose an individual career and provide basis for or against a specific input method, the point is, having more options is generally better than less.
  • Nah, I will never buy a laptop with touch on it. What is it for? Buy an iPad if that's what you want otherwise it's un natural to use a touch screen on a laptop, the reason I stick with MacBook Pros
  • Apple runs circles around Microsoft when it comes to touch. Touch is just grafted on, it isn't native to Windows and is an auxiliary input at best. It is nice to have at times, but it also can be frustrating since Windows wasn't designed for touch. iOS shows what touch can and should be while outselling Windows by itself. MacOS doesn't have touch on purpose and all Apple would have to do is add a touchscreen to their devices. Touch on MacOS would work just as well as Windows as is. This is all strategy on Apple's part and so far, they are winning. Microsoft has now dropped to the third most popular computing platform.
  • Why would I need a touch screen when I have a mouse and a great keyboard? No I am not using a Mac or a Surface. I am using a real highend laptop.
  • I must admit, before actually owning a touch screen laptop I never really saw the appeal, but they are incredibly useful, I don't use touch often but occasionally I will reach over and utilise the function and just having that extra freedom is very liberating.
  • I have been using a Lenovo Tablet as a desktop laptop and tablet for over a year and agree touch is essential for all three. Even when it is a desktop I still use the screen to take notes. I use touch constantly when in laptop mode preferring it to a track pad. With a 12" screen it makes perfect sense to use it in touch. I'm always trying to use non touch laptops with my finger too!
  • Touch is inevitable in the os that targets multiple form factors. But I use touch even in notebook mode whenever hands happens to be placed closer to the screen then touch
    pad. Most common scenario is scrolling, zooming. I used to think that I would never touch a screen but now no touch screen is showstopper to me.