Specs of next generation Xbox supposedly leaked, includes everything and the kitchen sink

Specifications have been leaked for the 360's successor.

With E3 approaching closer as each day passes, there's going to be more and more salt being thrown at consumers from sources who wish to either leak valid details about Microsoft's next generation Xbox console, or stir up false rumour. The latest information comes from VGleaks, who doesn't have a significant track record, but has published detailed articles surrounding the Playstation 4, WiiU and Xbox.

So what's been said about the next Xbox that's believed to succeed the current generation of hardware - the Xbox 360? Well, to cut it short, we'll be looking at an 8-core X64 chip running at 1.6GHz, 8GB DDR RAM, USB 3.0 and a 50GB 6x Blu-ray player to leave DVD behind.


The specifications are actually detailed at some length:

CPU - using the x64 Architecture, 8 CPU cores, each running at 1.6 gigahertz (GHz), will be powering the best games available with each thread sporting 32KB L1 instruction and data caches. Each individual module of four CPU cores has a 2MB L2 cache (with a total of 4MB L2 between them). If that wasn't enough, each core has one fully independent hardware thread with no shared execution process and all threads can issue two instructions per clock.

GPU - Utilising a custom D3D11.1 class 800MHz graphics processor, the next generation Xbox would boast 12 shader cores, providing a total of 768 threads. Each thread can perform a single scalar multiplication and addition operation (MADD) per clock cycle. When at peak performance, the GPU can effectively issue 1.2 trillion floating-point operations per second. Pretty neat, eh? Lastly, High-fidelity Natural User Interface (NUI) sensor is always present. 

Storage / Memory - 8GB of DDR3 RAM will be available on-board with 32MB of embedded SRAM (with a combined total peak bandwidth output of 170GB/sec). Hard drive for multimedia and other content, and of course the 50GB 6x Blu-ray player. 

Networking - As expected, Gigabit Ethernet and WiFi as standard.

The following will aso be sported by the console, should information in the leak be accurate:

  • Move engines
  • Image, video, and audio codecs
  • Kinect multichannel echo cancellation (MEC) hardware
  • Cryptography engines for encryption and decryption, and hashing

If the above specifications are true and the leak is accurate, Microsoft will be packing some serious gear in the next generation of its console. The Xbox 360 has enjoyed a healthy lifecycle (excluding the teething issues and RRODs), which the company will undoubtedly hope to replicate with the next refresh.

The inclusion of an NUI sensor sounds as though Kinect will be implemented deeper into the console, which is to be expected with Microsoft pushing more into sensor technology (with its Research division trialing projector visual experiences). This should also open up Kinect gameplay to all potential consumers who will pick one of these beauties up, potentially leading to more games being produced.

The leak will also please those who make use of a WiFi network at home (or in the office). Connecting the video game console to the Internet with built-in wireless should provide a more stable experience online, especially since the current adapters perform poorly. The gigabit interface will enable those who enjoy streaming media to make the most of available bandwidth.

We're pretty excited to see just what Microsoft has to announce at E3, and we're sure you all are too. How the next Xbox will further integrate with both Windows and Windows Phone will reveal just where the company is planning to take its three-screens vision.

Source: VGleaks, via: Neowin

Rich Edmonds
Senior Editor, PC Build

Rich Edmonds is Senior Editor of PC hardware at Windows Central, covering everything related to PC components and NAS. He's been involved in technology for more than a decade and knows a thing or two about the magic inside a PC chassis. You can follow him over on Twitter at @RichEdmonds.

  • Once word, Awesome!!!
  • Once???
  • Haha..
  • Damn
  • I'm really looking foward to the next generation of consoles. The next X-Box and Playstation look like they're shaping up really well. Lets see if they both release in a decent time frame. Having to wait a year for the PS3 was tough. But I really thing this time around Sony will release first.
  • Sony made a statement that they will wait till MS make first move so...
  • I'm surprised Sony are releasing another PS after the piece of junk that is the PS3.
  • To be fair, it has now overtaken the Xbox in world wide sales despite being released a year later. This leaves the 360 behind Nintendo and Sony for the second generation in a row. But don't let facts get in the way of your bullshit. Fanboys gonna fanboy.
    Needless to say the 360 has still been a massive success, rrod issues aside, and I look forward to the release of the next one.
  • Sorry, but that's shipped, not sold. XBox is way ahead in US and close enough to PS3 in the UK. It never had a chance in Japan. And game sales reflect that the 360 is console of choice. I have both, but I definitely prefer my 360. It has consistently been the better platform for multi-plat titles, and performance is what really counts in the end.... #fanboyrantdone
  • Agreed.
  • Specs don't matter. The only thing that matters hardware wise is what's standard in every SKU, ie - hard drives, maybe a Kinect? What really matters is the UI, services, and launch window games.
  • I agree.  MS, Sony, and Nintendo know by now that specs alone won't push people to upgrade anymore.  MS needs to deliver something that really differentiates this from the 360.  My hope is that it involves taking SmartGlass to a new level with the new hardware.
  • I would love for them to make use of Bluetooth. It would be awesome to turn on and off Xbox with my phone through smartglass.
  • Agreed. I need my phone to replicate all functions, including power on.
  • Microsoft already uses a form of bluetooth for the controllers. If you can wake up the console with them then it should already be capable of starting with smartglass. What I would prefer is powering and shutting down the console with voice using Kinect. Also give us the ability to use the xbox to control the rest of our components by having it communicate to IR repeaters. Essentially what I am looking for is the xBox to replicate what the Harmony remotes can do to control everything. Like Harmony, you would configure xBox by inputting the make and model number of your AV receiver, TV, cable box, etc and all the remote commands would be loaded for each device. For instance, say xBox, watch television. xBox would power up, then fire a command to the TV to turn it on, fire a command to the audio receiver and select the source of TV, fire a command to turn on the cable box. Then you could change channels by voice commands. Xbox - Channel FOX, ESPN, NBC, etc. How awesome would it be to say xbox, goodnight and have it power everything down as you head off to bed? I am sure this will only be a dream but this is what I want.
  • Well, thanks for the description. Now if the next Xbox doesn't do that, I'm going to be severely disappointed. Lol.
  • Unfortunately you can't control power with smartglass which was my complaint. I honestly could care less about voice commands. That said it should be an option because I'm sure a lot of people do. As far as ir controls, that can be done with an app and after market sensor as its available for iPhone just needs someone to do the same for WP. Again having said things built in would be great. Giving all the dif manufacturers it would be up to them most likely to add those features themselves. Or Microsoft could in a surface phone. Either way I'm excited to see exactly what the new system will bring!
  • Right now u can turn of the Xbox thru Kinect, say "Xbox settings" and while in the settings say "Xbox turn off" it's kinda odd why they put that command there
  • Specs do matter, if specs stay the same games stay the same. You'll be eating your words when they release crysis 16 or whatever.
  • this is fantastic if true and am looking forward to upgrading.
  • We need to catch up to the hardcore PC Gaming world! Go Nextbox! Day 1 buyer here.
  • Ahahahahahahahahah
    The day the new Xbox Will be out, the new nVidia GK110 GPUs will be out, and a single VGA with one of those GPU will be almost as powerful as a GTX690.
    PCs will always be hundreds of times more faster than a console :)
  • Yep which is why I would love a console that had function and customizations of a PC. To be able to play all my PC games and switch over to Xbox would be amazing! I however will not be holding my breathe for that lol!
  • This specs are worse than mid-en PC bought today ;].
  • It may have the same specs a mid range PC but a console is built for very specific purposes allowing it to use the hardware to its full potential. Meaning it can play any game that the a very high end gaming PC can play, without issue.
  • Damn didnt know mid level computers had 8 cores....
  • Haaa
  • Its not the number of cores that matter. Especially seeing as this an entry level cpu.
  • It's not the size that matters, it's the way you use it. ;)
  • It's just the AMD bulldozer architecture where the cores are broken in two, and individual "cores" are therefore pretty weak. Also it has no L3 chache and its clocked low, so yeah expect mid range performance.
  • Yeah, exactly. No L3 cache, but the most important thing is: 1.6Ghz? Really?
    Also, every benchmark can confirm that a good quad core CPU, like an i5 or even better an i7 (which has 8 logic cores due to the hyperthreading) with an higher clock speed (3.8-4.2Ghz) is waaaaay more powerful than a 8 cores with such a low clock :)
    The GPU in the rumors isn't so good, either...
  • They dont, but they run between 2-5 times faster on each core.
    1.6 Ghz is an absolute joke, thats the same speed as the old pentium 4s...
  • And here I thought I would be able to resist buying the new Xbox and hang on to my 360 a bit longer. But if these rumours are true, then I'll have no choice but to upgrade. I want all those new features! (especially the Blu-Ray player)
  • Seems like both Sony and Microsoft are backing the big guns for this new console race!
  • I really hate that Microsoft uses x64 as their architecture designation. If these slides are to be believed, than what they will actually be using ix x86_64 as the 64-bit is just the amd64 extension set added to x86.
    The only x64 would be Itanium which is designated as ia64. I know it's a bit pedantic, but it's sitll always annoyed me. Calling an OS x64/64bit is fine, but there is actually a big difference between x64 and x86_64. One runs Windows, and the other doesn't, for starters.
  • Except Itanium is totally irrelevant.  x64 is synonymous with x86_64 now and it's well past time to get used to it.
  • It play game good. Me like.
  • x64 is a standard now (AMD64 and Intel's 64 bt externsions are now cross licensed) Itanium is IA64...so x64 is correct terminology
  • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64
    Read up - should help within the first 2 paras
  • That doesn't actually say anything that I already didn't, mainly that despite being called x64 by several companies, it's still x86_64. That doesn't change facts.
  • I know what you mean. I have the same thing about "4G LTE" when it's fact that anything 4G has to be 100Mbps+ and LTE means Long Term Evolution, in other words long term evolution of 3G because you can't evolve something that doesn't exist yet. Stupid marketing /rant
  • Every couple of months another "definitive" rumor. Just ignore these until E3, please.
  • I agree.  Everyone should have learned their lesson with the pre-Wii U "leaks".  
  • Its called a "Definite Maybe"
  • Supposedly the ps4 will have similar specs but the gpu will be higher end and the ps4 will have 4gigs of ddr 5 I believe that's what I read.
  • And the ps4 shoots lazers at your neighbors and does your homework and walks your dog and folds laundry
  • But I have two cats, not a dog. Am I screwed? Should I get an Xbox instead?
  • But of course!! As the American adverts put it, "It only does everything."
  • I read somewhere... think it was europegamer... They were both basically idential in spec, except for the memory, Xbox has 8gb with 3gb dedicated to the system @ DDR3. PS3 has 4GB with 512MB reserved for the system @DDR5.
    They both will have the same 1.6ghz 8 core cpu, however according to EUgamer the xbox will dedicate two cores to system tasks.
    Both will be using a graphics chip that is basically a 7970m
  • No such thing as DDR5. DDR4 has barely been released, they obviously can't use a DDR specification that hasn't been finalized, much less released yet.
    And no, GDDR5 is not DDR5.
  • I love my PS3 but I wonder if Sony will promote a new storage technology with their PS4.
  • I remember the cell chip featured in the ps3 was TEH FUTURE and a thousand times more advanced than anything in existence and yadda yadda. Several years later, you still haven't learned a single thing about marketing, fanboyism and other retarded claims.
  • All I care about is that Microsoft starts making some high quality games and that they let rare be rare. We need killer instinct, banjo kazooie, conker. We need rare to wow us again.
  • Killer Instinct would be killer
  • Unfortunately Rare of today has nothing to do with Rare of before. You can't and should not expect anything from them. 
    The core team had already left before Xbox Perfect Dark and now the Rare has zero to do with the Rare that made the N64 games. 
  • killer instinct, the title, was taken be some lame tv show years ago and rare, ms, was denied the ability to use it. Yeah, just wrong. I know the systems will be great, but it is exclusives and great titles that will make or break it. Xbox has a lot of exclusives, but recently they are mostly Kinect titles.... ;-)
    I would like to see more exclusives that are not just Kinect. I own all systems just for exclusives, but this next go round i may only own the wii-u and one other.
  • I'd be shocked if this was true, and the main reason is the RAM spec.  I mean, sure, RAM isn't that expensive right now, but jumping up to 8GB would be literally 4 times that of the just released Wii U.  That makes it seem like overkill to me (unless the device's dashboard / OS has drastically jumped up in footprint), and so I think it's just wishful thinking.
  • Shocked? Why is that? On PC, x64 allows for full use of more than the 4GB limit of 32bit, and by extension all software and games built for x64 can too. It's not necessarily the dashboard that makes use of that but the games that will make use of that over the lifespan of the console.
  • The 360 has 512 MB of RAM.  The whole idea behind a console is standardized hardware that games are directly optimized for.  Besides that, the 'OS' has a much smaller footprint than something like Windows, so that smaller amount goes a longer way.
    If you've got a console game that needs 8GB of RAM, there's something wrong with your development process.
  • I'm betting the next console lets you run apps like Xbox Music in the background.
  • Playing games is maybe 50% of what I use my Xbox for. There are plenty of things that suffer from it having so little memory. Especially streaming video. Not to mention that one of the biggest complaints of developers is the lack of memory. Games like Skyrim have to split areas up more, and that means more time watching a loading screen. There are plenty of reasons to significantly increase the amount of memory on the new system.
  • Even on the PC, where you can get 32GB these days for dirt cheap, Skyrim can't use more than 4GB of RAM.
  • Becouse its a 32bit console port ?
  • Marcin is correct, a 32bit port is not going to be able to use more than 4GB, the games have to be written specifically for 64bit, how this has worked up to this point is a separate executable is compiled and on a 64bit Windows OS it launches that second executable. Crysis 2 is one such game that does this. Crysis has had this all the way back to 2007. Heck a patch for the original Far Cry (2004) added support for 64bit systems. And then there is that mention from EA that certain Frostbite titles of 2013 will have 64bit systems as a minimum requirement. The more resources you have available the better you're game can look. And when you're likely to be stuck with a console for 5-7 years you kind of want to future proof it as best you can.
  • I'm aware of the difference between 32 and 64-bit systems, but the point is that if one of the Tier 1 games doesn't even use more than 4GB on a PC, where the sheer number of configurations makes optimization for specific hardware very difficult, it seems even less likely that a console will have or need 4GB.
    Like I said, all of these specs just reek of wishful thinking.
  • I disagree. If you give developers 4 or 5 Gigs of RAM to work with, and all users are guaranteed to have that same amount of RAM, the devs will use it. This reported RAM amount is future proofing the console.
  • remember that 8 years ago when the 360 was still in finishing stages of developement if not already in production (in a couple months will be the 8 year aniversy of the 360 announcement at the MTV music awards) that 512mb of ram was fairly standard in mid to high end pcs. right now they don't need it. in 8-10 years, they probably will.
  • The 360 has 512 MB of RAM.  The whole idea behind a console is standardized hardware that games are directly optimized for.  Besides that, the 'OS' has a much smaller footprint than something like Windows, so that smaller amount goes a longer way.
    My understanding is that the new Xbox will be based on the Windows 8 kernel.   There's a good chance that the Xbox will be part of the larger unified MS application ecosystem shared between the Windows 8/Windows Phone 8 stores.
  • Keeping in mind we could be seeing a lot more multitasking.. They are trying to make it do everything after all, not just gaming..
  • More memory = more/bigger textures = MOAR EYE CANDY. Win. :)
  • What I'm interested in is the PC specs in this thing... x64? Assuming it's true, maybe this is an attempt to deliver on that promise made to PC gamers back in 2010/2011, an increased focus on PC gaming which has so far been a flop. If both console and pc share the same architecture and hardware there's no reason not to deliver a better product to PC. And just maybe we'll get some of those console exclusives.
  • Hahahaha I was thinking the exact opposite maybe now we will get some of those PC exclusives. Particularly a lot of those mmo's
  • That too, lol. Let's see how Microsofts contol is asserted. I was hoping for another Halo. Or a Read Dead 3... or a.... whatever else.
  • Next Xbox might be my next PC gaming rig with keyboard and mouse hehe.
  • Yeah, but will it cut my grass?
  • Want! but will it have deaper Windows Phone Intergration with both 7.5/7.8 and WP8?
  • Very doubtful. They seem to be slowly doing the opposite. Hopefully they prove me wrong and are preparing something good. But I doubt it.
  • Will this get jelly bean?
  • Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the worst question of 2013! (so far)
  • Awww c'mon. Not worth a chuckle?
  • I lol'd
  • OK, if it was a joke, then cheers. You should really put in some kind of emoticon that separates funny from stupid. Seen way too much of the latter in forums.
  • Lol
  • Freaking funny! I got the joke.
  • I also thought it was funny.
  • Sounds great but what is under the hood of the PS4? IJS
  • Interaction with my Windows 8 PCs and phone is what's making me jump from a long history (16 years) in PlayStation's camp. Microsoft is building one hell of an ecosystem and I'm really looking forward to seeing the final specs.
  • After the XBLA service for Windows Phone - I don't have any plan to buy it )))
  • Good point!
  • Sounds about in line with what I was expecting. What I'm more interested in is the software side of things. Moving from Windows CE to NT will open up a lot of new capabilities, especially if it shares the entire core with Windows 8 and WP. The extra ram is probably less for individual game performance but rather multitasking. It'll be nice to finally have things like XBM streaming running in the background.
  • They throwing everything at Xbox is why it succeeds. Then Windows Phone gets an amazing effort for a few weeks and then half arse efforts for 4 months. The back to looking promising for two weeks, then back to status quo. Show this effort in WP and it won't be just us enthusiast touting this amazing OS.
  • Agreed. This is my main complaint right now. If Microsoft doesn't have faith in Windows Phone, why should we?
  • Why aren't they going with a slightly better gpu like Sony seems to be doing?
  • It's still going to have better graphics and better functioning apps.
  • Yeah Im guessing the same thing. :/ why ?
  • Wireless AC?
  • With a bluray player, looks like I won't be getting a ps4 anytime soon. I've greatly preferred my Xbox 360 to my ps3. Both are good systems, but I won't jump into the ps4 until it goes to its inevitable slim model.
  • I don't think these specs are real or at the very least, they (hopefully) aren't complete. Bluetooth? And I was really hoping to see zigbee.
  • I hope it will be silent !!!!
  • 1
  • The current one is silent
  • The slim models perhaps... the original 360's were like helicopters lifting off when the DVD drive was spinning like crazy during the game. The noise would get worse over time and I'd have to put weights on it, or wedge bits of paper in places to stop the rattling noises. The best thing MS every did was to allow us to copy the game to the HDD so that we no longer had to listen to the noise!
  • Maybe compatible with wp8 Apps ... :P ?
  • DAMN!
  • If it does come with the Blu-ray player I might have to finally drop my PS3.. I'd really like to take advantage of smartglass on my Surface.
  • Seconded, blu ray is the only reason I keep my ps3 around. Can't remember the last time I played a game on it.
  • Nice Nice!
  • Excellence!!!
  • I really hope they don't use Bluray on the next Xbox for games. Bluray is an absolute failure for playing games with. Instead, we should use something like flashdrives or SD cards.
  • That's why you can install games to memory from the bluray.
  • Why exactly is it an absolute failure? Its a vast improvement over the current media that Xbox games use if only for the fact that I don't have to swap discs several times while playing.
  • Not true at all. Note that this BR drive is much faster than the PS3's as the tech has improved significantly since 2007.
  • Shame 1.2 TFLOPS is even less than a Radeon 7770... I dont know why, but I was expecting more.
    I know specs in consoles dont really mean anything though... You only have to look at Forza 4, then consider thans running on 8 year old hardware, you would dream of running anything that looked that good on 8 year old PC hardware, even the cutting edge of PC hardware at the time.
  • what about Bluetooth? Im so tired of crappy wired and rf headsets.
  • I wonder if this new Xbox would actually run the Windows 8 kernel then, or if they'll keep it on its own Windows Embedded platform. I was previously thinking it might end up getting Windows RT, but the x64 processor rules that out.
    Honestly, it would almost be foolish of them NOT to use the Windows 8 kernel. If they do, it would open up a whole new world of cross-compatible gaming options between PC and console games. Same is true for apps.
    Guess we'll find out soon!
  • Only if the blu-ray player is as fast as the DVD will I be okay with that as the replacement. I don't want to be forced to install all my Xbox games before I play them like the PS3. My understanding was that had to be done because blu-ray reads slower than DVD (despite the much larger capacity).
  • They should add nfc
  • To serve what purpose? No point in adding a cost to it just to have another bit of tech. They have to sell it for under $400 otherwise people will say it costs too much.
  • No mention of storage space, I'm guessing much of it will be cloud, and maybe even streaming games become the norm, capable of streaming to console or PC/tablet running windows 8, once you buy the license or rent it, you can log into X amount of devices to stream to it. That would be a huge leap forward.
  • the cloud should only complete the experience, not remove physical storage. there still are people who don't have fast internet, or who just don't want to play online. for that you still need a big capacity harddrive, the bigger the better to make it future proof cause games will become bigger and bigger
  • I heard the PS4 has a higher spec Bluray drive. And how come nobody has mentioned the hard drive capacity? Anyone know much about RAM? How does the lower spec RAM compare to the PS4 ddr 4?
  • DDR4? Doesn't exist yet. The Hard Drive capacities are likely to vary between models.
  • although i was hopping they go all digital...
    but if they managed to make it some how compact and silent, i am in
  • Lets hope they continue to support the 360 and that people will still make games for it.
  • I am a PC gamer so there is only one thing that would convince me to give the Xbox a try, and that is full native Keyboard and mouse support.
    This will also enable cross platform multiplayer without the Xbox fanboys crying that FPS PC gamers have an advantage over them because they are stuck with a controller.
  • Not going to happen.
  • They did this allready and it failed. As a ex hardcore pc gamer i can tell you i will never go back to the pc, too expensive, too many hackers and glitchers screw that. At least on the console games load nd play fast have terrific support and voice chat built in. Once you get used to the controller you'l be fine cus i thought the same thing. My recomendation, start with a COD game andlay it for a week or two you'l get the hang of ot quick.
  • Seeing as I really can't olay with a playstation controller anymore, whatever Microsoft releases for the nextbox I will buy
  • The inclusion of WiFi is not exciting unless its going to support 8.11ad.
  • IDC the specs I just wanna know what they are going to call it.
  • So when will we be able to get it? Will be among the first to preorder from Microsoft Store.
  • It's too bad really. As far as I'm concerned video game developers haven't even pushed the current 360 to it's limits. There are games being released now that still look amazing on the console. It's going to be a tough decision for me to upgrade to new '360' or jump onto the Steam console bandwagon if/when that's released.
  • You're kidding right? Developers are often quoted saying how they reached the limits of the consoles. Plus just take at the difference in games like BF3 and crysis 2 on pc and consoles and tell me your xbox games look amazing.
  • I agree with maximumGPU. I bought Assasins Creed 3 for my xbox and I thought it looked spectacular. Then my roommate built his own desktop with a GeForce 660Ti. The card came with a free copy of AC3 for PC. I was absolutely blown away by how fantastic it looked on his PC. Everything was smoother, terrain was visible at much farther distance, and the details were staggering. Xbox games look good, but their PC counterparts look noticibly better.
  • MS are going to have to do something pretty special when it comes to the next Xbox. I put mine away as it simply doesn't meet my needs any more. Why am I forced to pay to play online and access services that are free everywhere else? Where are the day 1 digital releases? Where are the exclusive titles that I can only play on this machine? People complain about exclusive games but it's those games that often justify and purchase and make playing on that console a special experience. If a PS3 or Xbox 360 only had the same games, why would you use one over the other? My current gaming preference is my PC. Steam just allows me to get on with what I want to do without having to jump through hoops and with regular sales and sites like GreenManGaming, I can get these games for huge discounts, something that the Xbox doesn't really offer on full price games. The PS3 also offers PS+ which is a service that's getting better all the time with sometimes serveral high profile games a month at no additional cost along with a bunch of other free crap and discounts (seeing upcoming 13 for 13 promo). I'm highly suspect that this will have a blu-ray player though. It makes sense as the standard format and MS do want to dominate the living space but they'd have to pay a fee to Sony and MS usually try to avoid doing something like that.
  • I hope you know that the free stuff on Playstation+ goes away if you ever cancel the service. I have it, and enjoy it, but that sux as a catch. I also have Live, had it for over 7yrs now. It's still been the best offering IMHO. Xbox feels more complete; I feel like my PS3 is still playing catch up. I used my PS3 solely for it's exclusives, Plus, and internet browser on my tv (IE on Xbox doesn't play well with flash videos). Everything else my Xbox has in spades, plus it's exclusives. PC gaming is just too expensive for me. Consoles level the playing field the best in my eyes.
  • not sure how anybody can be excitied about these specs if you have at all have been following all the durango rumors.....
    microsoft DID have a powerful console in the pipeline...seems like they ch