Windows Central Podcast 96: Andromedead?

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We're back with another exciting episode of the Windows Central Podcast. This week, editors Daniel Rubino and Zac Bowden talk Andromeda, Andromeda, and more Andromeda. The last week has seen a few reports come out about Andromeda, the first of which was a leaked internal email detailing what the product is, and another saying the project may have been canceled. So, what's going on? We try to shed some light.

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Zac Bowden
Senior Editor

Zac Bowden is a Senior Editor at Windows Central. Bringing you exclusive coverage into the world of Windows on PCs, tablets, phones, and more. Also an avid collector of rare Microsoft prototype devices! Keep in touch on Twitter: @zacbowden.

  • OMG
  • The fact is that every other OEM/company can get their software and hardware ready in time for consistent releases.. Did it take Apple 5 years to develop the iPhone? IDK.
    I guess my point is that if Samsung, or Apple, started working on this same device it would be ready for show time, and would be good - great. Why does MS need so much more time than it's competitors? What is going on different with MS development, and engineering, than with it's competitors? Why does MS always get a pass for being insufficient? MS doesn't have anymore time for this device category because they are about to lose AGAIN to thier competitors. They need to release this device ASAP, and it needs to be great. WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT A START UP COMPANY HERE!
  • Google didn't get it right when they first released Android. The android we have today is WAY different than the android they first released in the past. I don't even think they initially developed it. I think they bought it from a few guys. It takes years to build something new that could compete with what's already been out for years.
  • Of course. But the point is that you have to start somewhere. Even if not perfection at first you must continue to try your best to make it better, and do so as quickly as you can. MS has a history of not giving their all on specific products, and giving up way too fast. Even if you give up after 6 years (like WP) you are giving up too fast if you never tried as hard as you should've. Like I said, this is not a startup company, and MS is not Google in 2007... I expect more, better, faster, and greater with success from them. Anything less than that is pathetic. They need people like me, with that kind of attitude, running their company. Failure is strictly unacceptable. Another example; what's happening with Cortana is atrocious, to say the least.
  • This is where 'andromeda isn't a smartphone' is kind of misleading. I suspect it will be competing against smartphones, not all of them, but certainly top tier phablets. Why they need to work hard with it is because it needs to be perfect. They've failed their previous attempts, and WP8 was a really good attempt, so, anything short of perfection is dead on arrival. Lastly, the hardware is probably not the issue. They probably could have that wrapped up in no time. I think the software is what really needs to get polished, worked on and figured out ahead of launch. Users need to feel confident that the phone won't be an orphan.
  • True true true
  • I think it's time to move from *smart*phone to *intelligent* phone ...loaded with AI and Mixed reality capabilities :) Andromeda could be a great platform to showcase their AI and MR capabilities, revive Cortana in the consumer market, boost Micorosft's brand as an exciting company... I think instead of waiting for the software to mature...releasing something now and then quickly evolving it would be the best strategy... Anyway, I have given up on Microsoft to come up with anything exciting for the consumer market! I'm going to get Note 9...
  • This ^^^^^
    If this 'not a phone' doesn't bring the goods immediately, it's DOA
  • Agreed, rodneyej. Look at Surface. It took them 3 tries to get it right ad now it's a successful product for them. And they had plenty of opportunity to get Cortana right. Cortana should be where Alexa is!
  • MS have no choice, they simply can not afford to make another mistake in the mobile space. They aren't calling it a phone and WC are hard selling the 'it's not a phone' corporate line because they're all way to scared of another fubar....and it's completely understandable. If this thing ends up anything but a trend setting game changer it's D.O.A.
    This not a phone needs to be a ball tearing screamer from day dot, any half baked, half ripe, half as sed effort will have everyone screaming this is just another Windows Phone disaster from the roof tops. If MS ever has any hope of getting back into the mobile space, this not a phone simply must belt it out of the park from the very beginning or its fkd
  • That's because products evolve over time. The iOS we have today is way different than what we had in 2009 as well, regardless of the visual consistency over the years. This is normal. Microsoft has had a decade to build something that will compete with what's already been out for years. In fact, Microsoft was out for years before those "new players" entered the market. The reason why they're irrelevant in the smartphone market is precisely the issue the person you're responding to pointed out. They are dog slow to react to market changes.
  • Google still hasn't got it right. Android is still a ugly mess outperformed by any buggy fast ring windows insider preview we ever had.
  • Use an android phone first them come here and bark nonsense..pfff, pathetic fanboy
  • You're a joke, and even worse a pathetic troll. What's your interest here?
  • "Boldy go where no one has gone before." If only it was practical with Microsoft. If Windows phone and W10M had to be out in the market, then Andromeda with CoreOS deserves release...
  • Lol. I see what you're saying, and although funny, it doesn't work that way. Basically, you're saying "Well, Windows Phone sucked, so how bad can Andromeda be? F it. Just release it" 😂😂😂
  • Are you really advocating for Microsoft to just go ahead and release it now
    then have every issue small or otherwise be Eviscerated by the media.
  • No. It's a joke. Of course not.
  • I think they should...low volume, high price and label it as preview/beta/development device/ etc. Similar to what was done with google glass, hololense, occulus dk1, etc. Only have a 'fast ring' style build. No guarantee it will ever become a 'typical consumer' device. If they feel it's a year out; just throw it out there and let those that don't mind rough edges experience the device, provide feedback, build apps, etc.
  • Lol, so launch a half baked product at >$1000 and hope a bunch of idiots would pay money to be guinea pigs for them? You are either joking or forgot about windows 10 mobile and how MS launched that JUNK OS.
  • > hope a bunch of idiots would pay money to be guinea pigs for them YES! Exactly. As long as the thing can take phone calls, I'll pay to beta test for them. Literally the same thing done with hololense, dk1, google glass, etc. Windows Mobile was just another phone. Nothing special there outside of continuum...and that wasn't enough to warrant people switching from android. They were trying to go the same route as any other phone release while trying to catch up with the other devices. With this thing, there is enough buzz for some to buy it along side of their normal phones. A lot of people here want to compare everything to an iPhone. If it doesn't sell iphone numbers, it's a failure. I say throw the thing up on kickstarter and say, "If you guys want this, put your money where your mouth is. No guarantee we'll take it any further than the current functionality and we may break it. If you're looking for just another phone, this is not for you...yet". Then let people use it. No review units. If enough people are willing to fund it, make it happen. If the users like it, put up a second kickstarter. If you can do that 3-4 times...and sell out, then go into full production. Take a different approach to bringing it to the market. 50k units. Bump the price up to cover the lower volume. Doesn't really matter what the price is (to an extent). You're not paying for marketing. No commercials. Just a few blog posts. Maybe a little pop up for current insiders. Find some business partners and give them 100 units to get their feedback. Maybe throw in 5 years of skype and Office365 for normal users that buy it.
  • Let the media say what they want. Even if the item is perfect some will still find fault. New hardware with new software always seems to have glitches. Glitches happen and always will. The question and answer is how long will it take to fix those glitches? Those of us who read sites like this might be disappointed if this device is canceled. But do you realize 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the other people in the world don't even know or give a crap about Andromeda. So if Microsoft cancels it's not even a blip on the radar. They'll go right back updating Office or whatever.
  • "What is going on different with MS development, and engineering, than with it's competitors?" Because it is MS and a mobile/consumer device. MS is clearly still clueless/not interested when it comes to mobile/consumer.
  • Maybe if people would stop buying Office Licesnes/Subscriptions they don't even need, Microsoft would get the point. The people who complain about Microsoft not taking Mobile/Consumer seriously are actually part of the problem, and don't seem to realize it. They have made Office 365 the next default Cash Cow for Microsoft, which in turn has allowed Microsoft to completely ignore them because they're getting (probably) more money from your subscription than they would from a device sale (especially those not manufactured by them, and more so when if you aren't upgrading devices every year [or more] like clockwork). Businesses don't take internet anger that seriously, especially when their profits are growing. Stop paying for software services you don't even need, and suddenly they will realize that they need something to offer to those markets to make up the gaps (or maybe they will just release a new version of Windows and make you pay for it :-P ). Money Talks, and Microsoft's "fandom" seems to be completely clueless that they are perpetuating the very things they're complaining about. Microsoft is laughing to the bank, whispering "cry moar..."
  • You have to realize that Android is based on Linux which was released in the beginning of the 90's. Android itself started development around 2001 and still isn't good today 17 years later. Ios is based on UNIX which was released in the 70's and is good. CoreOS is an entirely new endeavor with experiences gathered from other projects but is a completely rebuilt base for the future OS. It will take time. This is why Microsoft is taking it's time. CoreOS will be the base for all future devices and it has to be good while also having a lot of backwards compatibility. Ios has about 4 years and Android has about 4 minutes of backwards compatibility.
  • Android apps are compatible with devices all the way back to 2012 (4.0) and Google is still updating those devices with new APIs. That is great support. Over 6 years now!
  • ha ha ha , yeah right, do you even wiki let alone check the google support years per product? through google themselves, you shouldn't drink so much of bleach..
  • "Google Play Services is automatically updated through Google Play on devices with that application installed that are running Android 4.0 or newer.[7] This means Google can do fast, silent rollouts of updates, providing new functionality to older devices without manufacturers having to update the Android firmware itself, working around the fragmentation of the platform for which it had become infamous.[23" From the Wiki...
  • Microsoft as a company are on the way out. This was a bill gates family business. And like all family businesses, they begin to die when the founder is no longer active in the company.
    In the coming decade Microsoft will be the new IBM.
    Smart devices, including televisions don't need Windows. Why do they take long to release hardware? Incompetent.
    Same reason, why they feel the need for a significant market share for a product to be viable...
    They've forgotten how bill gates built the monopoly in the first place.
    You don't put your product on a competitor's platform.
  • The 3rd most valuable company is on the way out? That's such a moronic statement to make.
  • their cash cow is short term..their complete ignorance towards decent quality is starting to get back on them...but you can keep praising them and that imbecile running it.
  • Lol their cash cow is the cloud and office, that isnt short term... the only imbecile here is you
  • @darkness690, you really think money makes you valuable?
    Did you read what i said?
    Is IBM not making money?
  • "Microsoft aren't doing anything for me personally, thus they are worthless and making money hand over fist just like IBM is irrelevant" Gotcha 👍🏻
  • Samsung did start working on the same type of device around the same time and there's some rumors that apple did as well. Nobody has released yet. Same goes for AR.
  • Apple and Samsung are in no hurry. They have a strong mobile product already. I haven't heard of Samsung designing a dual screen device, only a folding single screen.
  • So if they are not, it just simply makes good sense for Microsoft to postpone its own. You cannot be so naive not to believe that these decisions are partly made based on industry espionage. Not to mention that Microsoft had really not said anything about this device officially loud and clear, neither about its existence, nor its cancellation.
  • Time to buy Note 9 rather than waiting for Cancelsoft to release anything :) As I said before, they don't have the will, desire or capability to launch any new exciting product for consumers! I was hoping they would prove me wrong ...but didn't happen :)
  • yes omg indeed, you know whats worse, that this clickbait article is the stage for trolls to come out on, now we have the trolls talking nonsense shiet as if it makes sense and people are trying to argue with trolls who are always going to be the nay saying party cause they are afraid of this device being released, but this website wants the users to do this kind of time wasting arguments on their website so that they get traffic .. well done guys .. well done. either way Windows Central wins, by burning Microsoft credibility even before Microsoft makes a move, but you know what ? who cares right ? cause this isn't a Windows "loving" fan page, its just a website that wants to make off from anything that Microsoft does, even if it happens or not , who cares, except for real Microsoft/Tech fans who want to see the world improve in such ways, that it makes life easier for the everyday tasking. Apple or Android websites on the other hand, would do anything to show some reasons or excuses even though its not rational at times, no ones asking for stupid excuses though, half-baked news is the reason why trolls exist and right now, this website feels like a troll dungeon to me.
  • Well said. :) Only it's not WC's fault here that people are morons. Info about leaked emails are gonna be out anyways. It's only a matter of responsible journalism to make the most sense of it. I don't see any problem in how WC is handling it. They should address the info, and this is the way to do it. I mayself was expecting Andormeda to come with Redstone 5 eversince realising what features had been included with Redstone 4. My only problem is with the Fall release is that I just can't see an ecosystem being ready, although there have been some signs of product updates in the last couple of weeks. Nevertheless I can't accept the Fall release without receiving some kind of result of an ongoing effort behind the curtain that would reveal a great set of features, progress in CShell, and a dozen of design elements spread out along the platform and its products.
  • I know this whole "troll" movement is in vogue right now. But I honestly have no use for it. I've never felt the urge to urge to call someone who disagrees with me a "troll", as if I have the answers to everything. I'm not saying there are folks out there who are iOS and Android fans disguised in Windows fan clothing. But I think the whole "troll" nonsense is over prescribed.
  • True that anon. Disagree and someone scream trrrrroooooolllllll!!!!!
  • :))) feeling sad, fanboy?
  • Andromedead... I think Thurrott's 'Andromeduh?' headline is better, but only marginally.
  • MS has let me down so many times on the hardware front I will never again invest my time or money on any future MS kit.
  • And that is pretty much what they have been feeling all along. Hence the lack of effort in the hardware. No use to waste money and effort into something that does not give back.
  • I kind of see the concept of Andromeda the same way as I see Nintendo Switch. Nintendo Switch is a gaming console you can use with a TV/monitor and take with you. Andromeda will be a PC you can take with you. I can see it being extremely useful to students. Especially if it uses an ARM processor with a good battery. I really hope they make this thing. I don't see any reason why they would scrap it.
  • Students, loan officers, real estate agents, day traders, artists, authors, anyone who works in banking that currently has a desktop in their office, a laptop for working at home or on the road, and a company provided phone, auditors, insurance estimators, home install and repair technicians, appraisers. Not to mention us fans, you know the normal consumer that MS doesn't give a crap about anymore. The list goes on and on. Which is why in their eyes there isn't enough interest and not enough use cases for it. They are clueless and anyone else who can't see the huge potential market for this device is clueless too. And of course, it will never happen.
  • But, they make other great Surface device for the business consumer...
    Surface Pro is not for enterprise.
  • Since Andromeda is not capable of running legacy software, it is much less productive than a Galaxy Note with DeX.
  • How can this Andromeda device replace a student's laptop? A student uses a laptop to take notes in class, do research in the library, and write papers just about anywhere. It's going to be a pain in the butt to have to do extensive typing in Word or OneNote on a device with two 6-inch screens. How do you imagine that use case working with this Andromeda device?
  • It's not supposed to replace anything. Where are you getting that from?
  • The person I was replying to was talking about the Nintendo switch. The whole idea behind that form factor was that it could serve as both your TV gaming console and portable gaming console. I inferred from their comment they were talking about the Andromeda serving both as a desktop when docked and a portable productivity device for on-the-go. As to your point, if Andromeda is not intended to replace any existing devices, then I understand Microsoft's seeming reluctance to bring it to market. They would be asking consumers to add what's likely to be a very expensive ($1200-1300) device to their existing computer / Electronics portfolio. Something like that would only succeed if it were a revolutionary new product which enabled truly original computing experiences. Microsoft probably understands that this Andromeda device does not meet that criteria in its current state and hence its postponement.
  • Then there is no point at it. It does not bring anything new that users do not already have, and better.
  • Can a flip phone replace your smartphone? IDK, depends on the user. Why do some of you have problems with options?
  • I write more papers with word on my Lumia 950 than anything. Office mobile has voice dictation, after that I perfect them on my Surface 3. Get with the times.
  • You must be a *********! I know the Surface keyboard isn't great for heavy typing, but it isn't so bad that a 950 is better for text input!
  • He will claim anything to make it seem as good as possible. Unless you are new around here, you probably don't know this. He's an unapologetic super fan, and doesn't hide it well at all. All of the Mobile Nation sites have at least one of these people, who camp the site and respond to anything they perceive as negative towards the brand/product with some off the wall retort that makes very little sense.
  • Agreed n8ter, I thought you were one but was mistaken. So on Imore we have dannyjjk, here with Rodney, and I have been introduced to the android central version of the fan baby, but cannot remember his name atm. He was a turncoat too, he trained Danny in the ways of apple fanbabyism, then switched to android.
  • Do you even know what voice dictation is, Forest?
    Once again, STFU
  • Of course I know what voice dictation is and I know it is an extremely awkward input method.
  • The sky is blue
  • Are you really asking me how a device that has been described as a "note taking device" is going to be used by students for note taking? That's the main function we've been told this will be used for. As far as typing, it would be a hell of a lot better than a phone and there are foldable Bluetooth keyboards that fit in your pocket. I have 1 that folds in 3, fits in my pocket and extends out to 12 inches. I take it with me to use along with my Kangaroo whenever traveling to family or vacation. Then there's the pen, for notes, artists, designers, blueprints. Running Windows, Office, the ability to create, edit and sign legal docs and contracts. A device like this with telephony capabilities is a game changer for thousands of professions.
  • LOL, the fact that Andromeda would be better at typing out a paper than a smartphone is an extremely low bar. I don't care even if you have a Bluetooth keyboard, typing a significant amount of text onto two 6-inch screens would be a relatively frustrating experience compared to a laptop. That's the beauty of existing two-in-one form factors these days. You can take notes with a pen on a big screen and then flip that same screen around and type a paper comfortably. I don't see Andromeda being able to surpass these devices when it comes to students. As far as signing legal docs go, you can already do that with a pen on a tablet (Windows or iPad) or a smartphone. Not sure what's so groundbreaking about that...
  • Microsoft was selling a few million phones a quarter and Android sells something like two million PER DAY. Thousands will not cut out. Developers certainly won't pay any attention.
  • Not to mention they were selling a few million bargain basement < $100 phones, for the most part... Those are not the types of people who will fuel developer support. There's a reason why Apple refuses to get into that market; and there's a reason why Google got out of it with the Pixel devices. That part of the market is nice to get into to say "we had 1 million App Store downloads last month" (of freeware/adware, primarily) or "we sold 2 million devices last quarter." It's not nice when you have to show developers the numbers so that they can feel convinced that it's worth investing in your platform (Apple's token "We paid out $X Billion to Developers" talking point).
  • Actually… Android had a lower ASP... But that's a fact, which isn't used in conversation here.
  • Link?
  • It's not the number of sold devices for developers, that's for hardware manufacturers. Developers are interested in market share. And trust me there are people out there with Lumia 520s still. MS people don't and have never felt the urge to switch their devices every year. MS had a market share well above 15% with Lumias in many countries. Comparing a 15% market share to your numbers of a multitude of 60? gives a striking warning to wrong analysis. And if Andromeda would be manufactured by Microsoft, and would be aimed at enterprise as it is said to be, Microsoft SHOULD not have any problem developing its own platform and ecosystem for it. So developers should not matter. They are in house. Nonetheless I said SHOULD, because obviously it is Microsoft developers themselves, or whatever process flow that hey are bound by that makes the bottleneck here. Microsoft pipeline have been failing to deliver for years now.
  • All those things those people can already do on their 2in1s, tablets or smartphones.
  • Note taking with surface pen in class, prop it up and use a Bluetooth foldable keyboard if you want. I hate carrying a big laptop with a cord. I'd rather carry two small things than one big thing with a cord.
  • U are Andromeda target group - thx for feedback..
  • you could voice record the lecture from OneNote on Screen 1, take a picture of the whiteboard, dictate notes verbally and/or with a pen from Onenote on Screen 2.
  • We need a user website to start gathering plenty of use cases for Andromeda
  • Continuum? in the original post you are answering.
  • - Subject line - "Andromeda 2018 or bust!"
  • Thank you for the podcast guys. I have to say ZDNet Article Did making any sense.
  • Didn't?
  • lol yes lol
  • You're having too much mushrooms...slow down and let your brain recover...if there is anything to recover there.
  • What didn't make sense? Accoridng to MJF's sources: Microsoft doesn't see a use a case for the device, it doesn't run x86 software, and the operating system is buggy and will not be ready for launch this fall and possibly not next spring either. Microsoft is going back to the drawing board and people in the company are leaking details to try and get some excitement for the device so executives might change their mind. What again doesn't make sense? Like they said in the podcast, if OEMs have been working on devices too, this makes Microsoft look bad and leaves them with wasted R&D. That is rough and might not make much sense, but if the experience isn't good, it is better to kill it now.
  • Lol, you do know MJF sources do not exist. And we will know in 3 months anyway.
  • How would I know that? MJF is very reliable. I wouldn't discount what she says for sure. It could be Microsoft leaking false information though.
  • I was going to say, MJF is one of the more unbias online news reporters in the world of tech.
  • Lack of apps is bad but not a reason to cancel or delay as it's less a problem with the bigger screen. We could pin websites if necessary, while waiting for PWA apps.
  • Ooorrr, this device could be a purpose made device AT FIRST with all the great MS apps, and some new device specific apps made by MS, that make it shine....
    I guarantee you that if I had this device right now OneNote would be my most used app. OneNote is a terrific app, and it is available now.
  • Totally with you on that. OneNote is my most used app today. The Microsoft Store is not great yeah but it's got most of the major apps. It is missing banking, credit cards, airlines, Starbucks, Mint, and Voxer and that needs to be fixed. But all those can be run from a browser on a larger screen while they're evangelizing PWA! Apps are not a reason to cancel or delay on this form factor.
  • Yes. But, I don't think anyone has said that the device may be delayed, or canceled, because of apps.
  • Ecosystem was definitely one of the reasons. Andromeda wasn't going to be able to run x86 software.
  • Indeed, they just have to slap WoA on Andromeda, add a phone tool and be done. Instead it looks like they trying to remove the Win32 subsystem - what a stupid idea to be honest.
    And when the Win32 subsystem is removed, Centennial apps will not run either.
  • Even with that capability added, a pocket device would need proper apps, not desktop apps on that screen. If they come with this device with continuum as primary use, then it's worse than with it being a pocket contender.
  • MS just needs to market this device properly. But, as it was mentioned in the podcast, they have done a good job marketing Surface, so that might not be an issue with Andromeda.
  • If they did a good job marketing Surface, why are sales so low? Marketing might help, but without a killer experience, one that is far superior to Android or iOS, it won't matter. Marketing won't make up for a mediocre or even comparable experience. In 2018, with no ecosystem, it needs to be mind blowing.
  • You seriously type all this crap thinking I'm gonna read it? I see your name, and just reply the same thing everytime. Be quiet pathetic troll. Are you hard of understand? Are you?
  • No backup for what you say. Must be nice being able to just type stuff without any regards for reality. Has Microsoft marketed Surface well? I haven't seen much in the way of ads or anything. It is just a good product. A good product sells itself.
  • bottles are in isle 3 Rodney!
  • I couldn't find the video version on the mixer app or website.. Can someone help?
  • It could also be delayed because of manufacturing reasons.. Let's not fail to realize that if this device is to be on store shelves no later than even December 31 2018 assembly facilities have to be tooling up for that task as we speak. If MS doesn't hit that stage in time there will likely be a delay. I'm not making up excuses, rather stating what could be a reality.
  • Which brings up the question; where are Surface devices made, and by who?
  • Pegatron is the primary manufacturer.
  • They had a US manufacturing plant at one point but shuttered that & moved everything to China in like 2015ish.
  • Right. I heard of Pegatron back in the day... See, if we could get a leak out of Pegatron that would tell all. Image what the executives up there know about.
  • You would have to hire someone trick them and tell them the next iDevice or hot Huawei device is incoming from their plant. Otherwise Windows/Microsoft is not important enough or is overshadowed by the underwhelming Androids and iDevices. ;)
  • . _ . Huawei ? wait Huawei matters ? lmao ... since when did apple do more sales in quantity over Microsoft pc's ? , go home trolls. you guys are so scared about this device coming out that you gotta scream out every time when u see that name : D .. I laugh at pathetic trolls like you.
  • You and Rodney clearly need to come back to reality. Huawei DOES matter, idiot. Check the facts first.
  • I see you calling me out, but I don't see you saying what you disagree with. What have I said that you disagree with? Tell me.
  • You realize Huawei is #3 is smartphone sales, right? Apple outsells all Windows devices combined, easily. Just the iPhone itself does some quarters. Where have you been? It isn't 2006 anymore.
  • Area 51
  • Lol. I see what you did there, Mr. with the negative pants on.. 👖
  • 😏
  • News is news. "Andromeda" got a ton of attention this week whether it comes today tomorrow or never. News about it regardless stirs the public, no news at all...well is no news at all...
  • News of cancellation of a product that hasn't been announced is not news, good or bad. This stuff just makes the trolls trollier and the people who want this more anxious. I think it's just better if Dan and Zac keep it in the pocket until there is more concrete news.
  • trollier
    Becoming more and more troll-like
  • Yes, as in trollier than thou. 😁
  • More Busy Talk... As if it was ever a go.
  • Also, Samsung software is great. Instead of ******** on software that works half ok with Windows 10 without W10M having a future, maybe Zac should think of ways that it could be productive to use Samsung and Windows 10. Hmm?
  • Am really looking forward to the Andromeda.
    However I wonder why Microsoft find it so hard to stick to deadlines. If the projects in my current role were as poorly planned/tested/implemented/released as Microsoft's projects I would be fired. Seems like they cannot keep to any timeline. This device has a lot of buzz around it, and delays will only open the door for the competition to catch up. I see patents from other companies lately for dual screen devices. If Microsoft have the solution then start sprinting for the finish line!
  • "This device has a lot of buzz around it". Not really. Its not like the general population is waiting on a new mobile device from Microsoft. MS and Windows are completely off the radar of the phone/tablet buying consumer. People are wondering about the next iPhone and the next Samsung Galaxy. Maybe the next iPad or Google Pixel. That's it. There were around 1.5 billion phones and tablets sold last year, and 240 million Windows PCs (7th straight year of declining Windows PC sales). That tells you all you need to know about buzz.
  • Agree. Windows doesn't have a mobile platform hat integrates with it the way Apple devices do, so I'll continue to buy one power laptop for gaming and Media Editing (Video, Audio, Graphics Design) and an iMac for literally everything else - to go along with my iPhone. Cause I like not having to handle my phone when I'm sitting on my desk. Can Text, Place/Answer Calls, FaceTime/iMessage, Sync my Credentials Securely, etc. without having to junk up my Phone or iMac with tons of third party software. Last time I installed Cortana on my iPhone and put the Today Widget up, I was getting battery life comparable to Android Phones in 2010. Problem went away when I removed it. Those are not user experience and risks that are worth my time. This product is going to be dead on arrival. It will be a play thing like Google's smart glasses (can't even remember the name anymore); and probably cost even more. Just waiting to see what the next Galaxy Note or Pixel is going to be like. I'm almost willing to switch to that, but I rode dirty with both Windows Mobile 6 and Windows Phone 7. I'm not getting burned again. At some point, you have to stop crying about Microsoft and start asking yourself if you are making wise/smart decisions on what technology to invest in.
  • Dell computers do everything a Mac does with iPhone now, with mobile connect.
  • What deadline? Did they say it's going to be out by a specific date? No. Have they even announced it? No.
  • I started a petition to resurrect MS Money back in 2015, after Intuit pulled Mint from the App Store, and got about 1000 signatures without even advertising. I wonder how many would sign a petition for Nadella to not cancel a device that is perhaps not even real? 😉
  • Interesting, just looked... 2,118 people signed the biggest of about 20 petitions to not kill MS Paint. 1,870 signed a petition to block MS from buying GitHub. 15,641 to opt out of telemetry. There's a lot of enraged Softies out there! But nothing for "Save Surface Andromeda!"
  • Less than 1,000, because no one but geeks (those of us who read sites like this) even know about this rumored/cancelled device. Everyone else is busy using their phones and tablets, not caring AT ALL what Microsoft is doing.
  • Whoever leaked the "new and disruptive" story to the Verge... if you're reading... I formally challenge you to start said petition! 😁
  • Microsoft - time to follow through... make us more curious, create a short movie around it... perhaps cheaper than brute force marketing... . let us blog about it, let us inspire the press to write about it... while the software is getting ready...
  • Hey! Maybe the guy actually did it! See this... I signed!
  • Here's what I learned from this podcast: Andomedead is a super niche device focused on being an electronic version of a notepad & pen. Its software is rough/not ready & has no ecosystem in place, but Microsoft needs to go all in on marketing (to it's niche audience?) Uses Continuum, again (even Samsung can't get traction with that feature, but yeah sure whatever). It'll be expensive & not expected to sell in any significant volume, but is also Microsoft's last chance at mobile.
    This reminds me of the Simpson's episode where Homer's automaker half brother let him design a car. It's from 1991 but worth a viewing.
  • "The Homer" Ya a classic episode, lol.
  • is it possible Intel was correct and that Microsoft didn't have the rights to emulate x86 so MS had to work around it?
  • WoA has been available for a couple months now. I don't think we have heard anything from Intel.
  • being Lumia XL 950 user, buying Pixel Android right now... Oh and also my firm and I switched fully to G Suite 5 months ago. 84% of our employees are on Macs, the rest are to follow. Easy setup, clean interface all the software available, no problems at all for our admin board. Literally don't need Microsoft for nothing. Never been more satisfied with the results (btw we're operating in the software/financial sector building solutions for the financial institutions in Denmark - 150 employees). Just realized how Microsoft are like dinosaurs, up for extinction. First from schools, like the next gen kids don't even know what Microsoft is, and steadily from business too. I am here because I've been following MS from a tech standpoint as this is my job and I remember the days when Windows XP was the sh*t. Now the whole company is just laughable and irrelevant. Azure is just laughable compared to AWS and we are using almost every Google Cloud service out there like Firebase, Fabric for our apps and the Machine Learning tools that Google provides are on a whole another level. Personally tried a few times using Azure and its ML suite for personal projects - big fail. Azure AI is so pathetic compared to what Google has.. Good lord MS still has money to spent on building data centers on more locations than Google, because that's the only thing that pushes Azure, but obviously less and less people care, compared to Amazon and Google. They just have better solutions. Had Surface Book 1 for like 2 months. Now I am on a MacBook Pro. This is a symbiosis between hardware/software and ecosystem. Surface is just fine shell with sh*t software and problems. Won't even mention the legacy UI having elements dating back to Win95... Microsoft are one pathetic and sad company. Why do you even stick around anymore waiting for your unicorn Andromeda? The world is just beautiful outside these lame MS efforts. :)
  • Two sentences would've sufficed you know.
  • Not for the newly converted Mac fanboy.
  • Thx for sharing, the low budget Surface is an acknowledgement of what u said. Let the new generation aware of old brand. Surface studio is real head turner for this new generation, price of 1st generation needs to go frown further for wide adoption. Microsoft still exist for the decades as one of key main enterprise solutions players. Microsoft tries hard to evolve to new trends, chasing new technologies while defending old grounds. Microsoft will remain competitive as long as other old-timer enterprise players with huge big corporate customers like oracles, SAP, are non competitive in clouds. This is the borrow time Microsoft has to compete in consumer space. Between W10M and Andromeda OS, the future of later is much more worth investing and risking huge investment loss in the beginning.. Treat Andromeda like hololens, let Startups find new business use cases. Control the loss of investment for a few years. Andromeda fits well among Microsoft enterprise customers. The borrow time does not last forever.. Let loose the Andromeda... Let us from bottom up explore the untapped potential of Andromeda.. In creative institutions and startup incubators, hackathons...
  • The guy who lacks paragraphs is back!
  • If somebody would need 331 words to explain why he does not like - say cheese, I would have serious doubts about that person's cheese preference. So why don't you just say "I do not like MS". 5 words.
  • Because I on the other side, don't like people that don't have arguments for their statements.
  • You mix "arguments" with personal preference" and "preconceived / biased view" But OK let's give it a try:
    1)"Microsoft is laughable and irrelevant" : 90 - 94% of global personal computers are still on MS software. Ms Office has had no competition in the corporate world the last 25 years. . Azur is the fastest growing cloud service ever. Have a look at MS stock performance the last 30 years and you might want to re-think your "arguments".
    2) MS software (Window / Office) still is de de-facto standard since 1990ies
    3) Happy for you you are happy with Google cloud services. Just for your reference as you turn out to be a real pro: 85% of the Fortune 500 companies are on Azure (more than Google and Amazon combined) 4) Congrats with your MBPro, the dinosaur computer and dinosaur OS that after 30 years still has a single digit <5 % market share despite billions of Apple marketing budget spend. Just for fun go to and assemble a Dell Precision mobile workstation 7730 and evaluate the sheer endless configuration options you have compared to your MBPro. A mobile workstation for real professionals, not for Starbucks visitors...
    5) "laughable", "pathetic", "sad", "lame", "sh*t software", "extinction" : yeah your arguments are so intellectually overwhelming that you blow away all the facts. But despite your rants the facts still remain facts you know and wishful thinking is not the same as reality. Now back to work I would say.
  • 1) 2) Less and less people are computing on Desktop/Laptop machines nowadays in their own time. At work they don't have a choice. Give them a choice and 99% would not pick Windows. Situation with Office is absolutely the same - give people a choice and noone will pick the MS suite over the elegance of Google Docs and even simplicity of Libre Office, and yes functionally they cover almost every possible aspect of work. Matter of fact the only Office program that is somehow more advanced in terms of functionality (that almost noone uses) is Excel. Powerpoint and Word have long been matched. Also Windows and Office are crappy products from a technological standpoint compared to every possible competitive solution out there - Libre, Open office, Google Docs and iWork suite. Absolute rubbish of a software full of bugs, problems and sh*ty UI.
    3) Out of these F500 companies that MS news are flooding us with this bs, I bet my everything that almost all of them are using AWS and Google Cloud services in parallels with Azure. Also what exactly matters 500 companies when the other 5 billion are on AWS. They are in the made up chart Forbes 500 by some random stats, so what? Azure is a distant second no matter how much growth it has. Just like XBox is a distant second. The ratio is like 2:1 in favour of AWS/Sony. Laughable.
    4)I am confused - you compare actual hardware products or OSes? Because I don't find mixing them fair. Let's compare the hardware MBPro has a single digit market share because it doesn't target the majority of people. It's a premium product for people with money and quality standards. Always has been, always will be and in it's price range it is the #1 Computer since it's creation. Lets compare the marketshare of Dell's high range offerings against MBP, come on! Come on! Let's do the same with HP's. Not so edgy now uh? That's because you are conveniently comparing incomparable things, but do it right, I dare you! Let's see the actual meaningful results? Truth hurts right? Apple just don't sell crap. Speaking of Apple though, every category Apple has ever released is the absolute total #1 winner in its premium price range. Every. Single. Product. Like Steve Jobs says in one interview - Microsoft is like McDonalds, market is flooded with it, but the quality... oh the quality... Apple on the other hand is a symbol of quality over quantity and rightfully the most successful company in history of humanity. Everything they make is a massive success, and they win in every possible economical measurement. On the OSes side, you want me to compare desktop OSes with desktop OSes? But have you forgotten the little fact that by design MacOS is made specifically and exclusively to this single digit market share computer? You know why? Because Apple create an out of this world seamless symbiosis between software and hardware with insane optimization and perfection and are not interested in giving MacOS to OEMs like Microsoft to tarnish their brand, voice and vision. Unlike Surface though, because Microsoft pathetically desperately want to be like Apple, creating their own software and hardware, but they can't, because they are mediocre and have no culture and eye for detail like Apple (just take a look at Windows 10's UI.. look at it! oh yes - the excuse "Fluent Design" is a "journey" that will continue forever hiding mediocracy). Surface is just a fine design hardware shell with slapped sh*tty Windows on it, just like any other OEM, nothing exclusive like with Apple.
    Interesting how you consider my company full of engineers developers and solid workforce overall - "Starbucks visitors", cause almost all of them are on Macs now and more productive as ever, without thinking of anything. The code just flows.. I am a happy Apple and Google user now, never looking back for MS. Things simply work and also are beautifully crafted hardware and software-wise (on the software part - with very very very few tiny exceptions that don't even matter). Disclaimer: My job is to monitor ecosystems in the industry and pick the best for my company and that's why I'm here, no trolling or fanboyism, just sharing the reality that Microsoft is pathetic company that is fading to irrelevance
    Disclaimer 2: Truth hurts.
  • "I am a happy Apple and Google user now" So why are you still trolling on WC?
  • See disclaimer 1, noob. And then see Disclaimer 2 again.
  • macOS is *****
  • The maturity of "One Core" needs to pre-exist in Windows 10. It doesn't as to why the executives put it on the shelf. I have said before Windows 10 is used more as a glorified Windows 7. The store, UWP and even PWA is simply garbage and does not appeal to "Mainstream Development". The promise of the store and ecosystem was greater around the launch of Windows 10 then it is now. It is moving in the direction of 6 feet under. Honesty, until that outlook regarding the ecosystem turns to something Andromeda device will never come. We will have the Galaxy X running Android with Dex capabilities before Andromeda. This game is over folks!
  • One more post. To completely retrench.. I think the focus should be be on simply creating a device to bring Office365 mobile and more portable... PERIOD. Interest for other apps, 3rd party UWP development and PWA should be secondary and perhaps can come along after a the new "Mobile Office365" takes off. The driving force for Marketing such a new device category should now be what more you can do with Office365!
  • I thought that was the plan already!! Why else would anyone buy this rumoured device?
  • Office360 unique and unprecedented user experience is what makes Microsoft to sale it as premium price
  • My wife still has a spellchecker DEDICATED device too. Do you think that would sell today? C'mon, O365 dedicated?
  • Release an Emulator for Andromeda OS for developers to start presenting use cases.... Outsourcing the marketing to us.... Low risk... But keep the interest going.... Let us have beta version of Emulator.... Stating the first release will come in RS6... Let us be the insiders to keep refining the OS...
  • There is no need for 3rd ecosystem, they can keep using Windows Mobile 10, since PWA only need web technology, that means that a PWA will run the same on iOS, Android or Windows Mobile.
    What Uber show yesterday in the Uber Windows 10 app is a proof that if a team put efforts on developing using web tech, it can be done.
    So at the end we just need more companies like Uber to move their apps to PWA instead of having to maintain 2 teams 1 for iOS and 1 for Android.
  • I would take 5G next gen HoloLens, if it was also camera centric and with pen support instead, if thats what it would be about. They need however more of portable products, fitness trackers, action cameras, game controllers and such. One device is just not enough anymore, after all that fails, we not need just another device, we miss that great hw that even if using similar or inferior specs, were great as they were original with Microsoft way, "-feeling" in them.
  • Andromedajunk was DOA anyway. Vapourware for desperate fanbabies to dream about.
  • So, what MS products are you interested in?
  • After seeing his comment history, he looks like he's only interested on Android mobile devices, but I would say mmgn would be surprised to know that PWA apps are going to make Microsoft a big player again in the mobile consumer space after the big app players transition from closed app standards to open sourced PWA apps
  • He's another pathetic troll.
  • Dreaming was a few months ago, now patiently waiting.. Do u have something worth waiting??? or a walking zombie just repeat what other said faithfully???
  • To be honest, after knowing that PWA apps only need Chrome to Run on Android or Edge on Windows 10, the future of this device depends on how fast big mobile app players like Facebook, Uber, Banks, Airlines, Amazon, etc move from mobile apps build with Cocoa (iOS) and C++/Java (Android) to web technologies
    So at the end, Microsoft doesn't need a new mobile OS, it just need to have state of the art web html5 standards that take advantage of hardware acceleration feature sin ARM processors.
  • All i want is a handheld device that I can talk and text on and if docked/continuumed, I can use to run X86 programs (x64 if possible). I dont need a journal, but wouldnt mind it if the device does the first thing I mentioned. I have been hoping for 1 device to do enterprise work and talk/text.
  • Andromenotdead
  • is there a reason WC deletes my honest comments?
  • Well tbh I've a hard time seeing its use case in its current form (to my understanding) and yet part of me does.
    I think the best use of a pen focused dual screen device would be in an education environment. To me it would make a perfect companion to yet unannounced Surface 4. Other even smaller use cases maybe for journos, writers and anyone who likes to jot down notes and sketch ideas on the go. One thing Microsoft has got it right with this is pocketable. I've been advocating this category for like 3-4 years now. So what else can they do to make it useful. Well, remember Surface Hub 2 (concept), tiled set up, collaboration for board room? Andromeda could just be that but for classroom. A pocketable, inking enabled learning and collaborative tool for educational market. With windows core OS, C Shell, ARM, exceptional stand by battery life and always connectivity, Skype conferencing Calls, One Note for education, Microsoft Teams, One Drive, Microsoft Whiteboard with real time collaboration, EBooks on Microsoft Edge- and you could see how this could be useful in educational market. Throw in Office suite, Full Edge Browser with desktop web platform, PDF books and editing capabilities, Photos and Editing App, Office lens scanning, screen casting, Microsoft To do, Dual Screen Multi tasking, Store apps and last but not least telephony capability- and this could be a really useful device for this specific market.
  • ^ Now that I'm done thinking about how the device in its existing prototype according to my understanding could be brought to market, let's think about how such a device could be made to appeal to us windows phone fans. 1) Pocketable. To replace our ageing Lumia 950s. Thankfully Microsoft already seems to have acknowledged that.
    2) Camera beast. A pocketable device should also double as a leading point and shoot.
    3) Telephony. Duh!
    4) Great display. For such a device to succeed, it should nail aspect ratio for both closed (phone) and opened (tablet) modes. Then the display needs to be a single, flexible, seamless one. OLED preferably. Active display with inking support. Pen included.
    5) Full Windows 10 experience that we have on desktop/laptops today for opened (tablet mode). Continuum closed (phone) mode. UI Scalability for fully featured desktop apps like office suite, Microsoft edge, photos app and other store apps during closed (phone) mode. Invent hybrid x86/64-ARM64 SoC with laptop grade SSD, RAM and GPU.
    6) Exceptional battery life by switching to ARM during standby mode or on ARM compiled software like 1st party software, store apps etc.
    7) XBox platform certified as a handheld XBox console with Nintendo Switch's Joy-con like accessories and 1st party gaming line-up support. That's all I can think of right now. Plus the ideas I mentioned in above comment for a collaborative educational device.
    One can hope. Perhaps one day.
  • Chicken-egg paradox has been broken many times before. Apple did it 2007 when they dethroned BB & Nokia. So it is possible provided you think straight and act with conviction.