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Microsoft 'Surface Andromeda:' Everything we know about the rumored foldable device

Surface logo
Surface logo (Image credit: Windows Central)

Andromeda is here! Now known as the Surface Duo, and runs Android instead of Windows

Back in October, I wrote an article detailing Microsoft's foldable tablet codenamed Andromeda, and talked about it featuring digital ink and telephony capabilities as well as running a new version of Windows 10 built on Windows Core OS. More information from various sources all over the web has since popped up, so here's a consolidated list of everything we know so far, updated August 2018.

Andromeda: What is it?

Microsoft's Surface Andromeda project is both a software and hardware effort. On the software side, Microsoft is building a new version of Windows 10 that's designed to bring the OS to a new category of mobile devices. This version of Windows 10 is codenamed Andromeda OS, and is part of Microsoft's Windows Core OS effort internally. On the hardware side, Microsoft is building its own Andromeda-based device too.

This is widely expected to be Microsoft "re-entry" into the mobile market. However, rumors suggest Microsoft will not be positioning this device as a smartphone. Instead, Microsoft is going to try and carve out a new, low-volume market for the enterprise, schools, and prosumers/creators. Microsoft did a similar thing with the Surface Studio and original Surface Pro, where it built new device categories for markets that were, at the time, low-volume or non-existent.

Andromeda: Hardware

According to my sources, Microsoft's own Andromeda device is an ARM-based foldable tablet that features two displays joined together by a hinge mechanism in the center of the device. Its primary input method is touch but will feature pen support for note-taking and inking experiences. I'm told the device will resemble that of a pocket journal, with its foldable form-factor allowing it to be opened and closed like a real notebook and fit in a pocket.

The handset will feature telephony capabilities, meaning you will be able to make calls and send texts using the device. Sources say the device will feature a Snapdragon processor and likely come in the usual 64GB or 128GB configurations. Because this device is ARM powered, sources say the Andromeda device should last a full day at least on a single charge. That, along with the fact that this device will be running Windows Core OS, means battery life should be very good.

A leaked internal email described the device as a "new and disruptive" device category that "blurs the lines between mobile and stationary computing ... bring(ing) together innovative new hardware and software experiences to create a truly personal and versatile computing experience."

It is likely that Andromeda will end up being released under the Surface moniker, Microsoft's premium line of devices that are designed to showcase the best of Windows 10. Latest rumors have suggested that Microsoft is pushing Andromeda's release date back to give itself more time to improve the software and hardware.

Andromeda: Software

Photo credit: Engadget

Photo credit: Engadget

Andromeda OS is the first iteration of Windows 10 that will ship under Microsoft's Windows Core OS effort. It will feature CShell, Microsoft's upcoming adaptable UI that will allow the shell to adjust itself depending on the folded position or scenario the device is being used in. This new shell is being designed specifically for dual-screened experiences and is unlike any Windows Shell on the market currently. It's gesture-based and is designed in a way that allows the shell to get out of your way when within an app.

Microsoft is also building a dedicated Journal experience that spans across both displays when in use that features OneNote and Windows Ink integration. My sources tell me that Microsoft is also looking at implementing the same collaborative tech found in the Microsoft Whiteboard app, allowing multiple people to ink within the same Journal together. Other apps may also be able to share snippets and other things directly to the Journal for safekeeping or annotating on.

The device will also feature multitasking that allows the user to snap apps side by side just like you would expect to be able to do on a dual-screen device.

Microsoft is also working on a Continuum mode for Andromeda that will provide a familiar desktop experience when extended to a large screen or connected to a dock. Powered by CShell, this Continuum will allow apps from the Microsoft Store to run in a windowed mode, along with other enhancements that make sense in a desktop environment. We have already showcased an early build of the new CShell Continuum environment, so make sure you check that out.

Internally, Microsoft refers to this improved Continuum mode as "Productivity Mode," and is being positioned as a feature that turns your pocket-device into a full PC when docked up to a large screen. Microsoft really wants to bring back the "pocket-PC" idea, but do it properly this time.

Andromeda: Pricing and release date

Our sources suggest that Andromeda will be a premium device, with pricing to reflect this. No specific price is known at this time, but it is believed the device would cost around or even upwards of $1000.

In regards to a release date, the original plan involved it being announced October of this year. Our sources now suggest that Microsoft has delayed its launch into 2019 due to not being able to complete the OS to a good standard in time. So, the delay allows Microsoft more time to finish up the OS and fine-tune the hardware.

Still more the come

We will continue to update this article with new information as it becomes available, so check back periodically! What are you most looking forward to with this rumored Andromeda device? Let us know in the comments.

Updated August 3rd 2018: We updated this post with the latest infomation we have about Microsoft's Andromeda project.

Zac Bowden
Zac Bowden

Zac Bowden is a Senior Editor at Windows Central. Bringing you exclusive coverage into the world of Windows 10 on PCs, tablets, phones, and more. Also an avid collector of rare Microsoft prototype devices! Keep in touch on Twitter: @zacbowden.

420 Comments
  • Can I put it in my pocket?
    Make telephone calls on Verizon?
    Will it be good with voice input?
    As much as I would love a device that defines a new category, this may be"just another tablet" unless there are other surprises
  • You will be surprised!
  • I just need something to replace my Lumia 930.
  • Same here, except I need to replace a 950 XL  I don't think I want or need a folding tablet that also makes phone calls.  I just want a phone. I may be wrong, and somebody might be able to show me that I need this object that has never been available to me in the past.  So I reserve judgement and will wait and watch ... quite skeptically.
  • I really don't think it'll be a "phone" even if it can make phone calls. I also believe that, if it runs Windows, it's DOA.  Windows is kaput as anything but a legacy platform in the enterprise.
  • That's not true😎 Windows PC sales actually grew last holiday season and Surface-inspired 2-in-1s have been doing well in the market.
  • Sure, people still buy PCs.  But they're only used for work, excepting a few niche PC gamers.  And while PC sales were relatively flat in 2017 compared to 2016, that's because enterprises are still buying them.  If anyone buys a laptop for home use, these days, it's a Chromebook, because that's what the kids are using at school and that's the platform with all the apps. No one sits around the house doing anything on a PC anymore, except for working from home.  They have their phones, or their smart TVs, or their smart speakers, etc. I spend probably 8 hours a day on a super high-end PC.  I use it for programming, MS Office, email, research, and data analysis (I'm a scientist).  For these things, there is currently no replacement.  And when I get home, I often take out my laptop to keep working on those things.  But these things aren't new: I did all of them 20 years ago.  And when I do anything else, I do it on a different device.  I think my situation is normal. Except for the nacent category of VR which, for now, is used entirely for gaming and which undoubtedly wil be dominated by phone-holsters, I can't think of one new thing that's come to the PC in the last 10 years, whereas innovation in the mobile space is frenetic.  And I mean that literally.  Can you think of even one, tiny thing that exists on PC today that didn't in 2008?
  • X I'm TC,  you are WAY WAY WAY off the mark.  Most people still do most of their home computing on their PC.   Tablets are used for reading a magazine or something like that.   Their phones are to check Social media.   I use my computer many hours at a time, as does my wife.  She could use her ipad but finds the screen and keyboard on her dell better.  Plus,  having some real software is a huge bonus. 
  • I am genuinely curious what "home computing" you do on a PC.  I will occasionally check a Web page for something if I am already on the PC, and I will certainly use it to do things work-related (like check documents or emails), but I can't think of anything recreational that still works best (and very often at all) on a PC. From streaming music or movies to following a recipe online to sharing photos of the kids to controlling smart appliances to playing with Furby to--well, you name it--it is (almost?) always done quicker and easier on some other device. More than that, I am in no way "WAY WAY WAY" off the mark.  Even if you still use your PC for lots of stuff at home, you're the outlier.  Most people don't, I assure you.
  • Why are you even on this board?
  • Did you miss the part where I said I spend 8 hours a day on a PC?
  • There's nothing my wife and I can't and don't do on our Surface Book and Pro.
  • Same here: Surface Pro4, (Pluggable Dock when needed to larger monitors)Surface 3, Dell Venue 8 Pro, Lumia 950XL Dual SIM. I use all of them the same way, all day long, for business and personal needs. I select which one I use based on the size that best fits where I am and what I am doing. But they are all the same - I only use Start, never Desktop, and each Start is set up the same way.
  • Seems like I’m not so off the mark x I’m tc
  • Not far off the mark at all...
  • PC GAMING is a 33 billion dollar business, so there's that. Many games are best played on a PC because they require the processing/graphics power that consoles can't provide, and a keyboard and mouse to play them to their full capacity.
  • I work on my desktop/laptop/tablet PCs, I play on them as well, they're my media consumption device for Plex, when the Roku TV is in us - a wife and 2 children means the one TV often isn't enought. Most importantly of all, my PCs all talk to every other piece of tech in the house, the NAS, the cameras, the home automation and perhaps the thing that's the biggest fail on iOS and Chromebooks, the printer. By far the hardest and most painful thing I've had in a none PC ecosystem is getting printouts where I need them, it's always some half bake cloud solution, whereas the PC can print over the network, or if all else fails a cable from the PC to the printer, and there you go. Even my wife who isn't particularly interested in tech. would rather use her Dell XPS13 than go back to the nightmare that was a Macbook. PCs just work, the main apps I use on my Android phone (I love my lumia, but you have to face facts when you can't get the apps) are for banking and managing flights, these really need to be available on any portable device. If Andromeda is to exceed I think it needs to either emulate Android or MS has to get buy in from the Android app writers for the banks, airlines and social media companies. In my world, I'd love the Andromeda to run old windows apps, then I could leave at home my surface, but I suspect I'll need to carry the Andromeda and get a surface go for my ultimate travelling solution.
  • You assure him....oh God!!! Please help this fella.
  • My PC is my main computing device. I have it through a 40 inch TV from my sofa. I game, watch youtube, I watch media via kodi, I write music. I do occasionally work it on as well, but its primarily an entertainment platform. Same with my windows tablet - I use it to game, check social media, write music - I don't use it for work. One thing I deeply enjoy about the most basic experiences on windows is the feature richness. Edge on windows 10 beats the hell out of mobile browser apps. VLC has hardware acceleration for music listening, kodi for video listening. I can access my whole catalogue of video on kodi nicely on the nice screen. Current pillars of eternity deadfire and trine 2 on the touch tablet also make nice distrations. And in the facebook app, or youtube I get full screen pictures, at a big size, and nice large readable text. Mobiles are for when you don't have anything better. They are a secondary back up device. Or a primary device for poor people.
  • Yea, agreed, I dont use anything but Windows Platforms, In fact my family of 4 (which include my 2 teenage children 17 and 19) all use their desktops, surface tablets and Windows Phones and do just fine with keeping up with all their own activities and their friends activities too. But I guess we arent the cool kids who have to keep up with the latest tech because ours keep working just as well as it did when we bought it. In fact my son who is a programmer has no desire to be on anything else, even though he doesnt mind the idea that he can make money developing apps for others. Just he prefers the Windows and Linux environments for himself. I don't think you realize how many people like having real control over their system. I am sure there are a lot of people who like having things simple at first, but as they become more adept there is a lot of people who want more than what is being fed to them through the limited platforms that keep control out of the hands of users.
  • x I'm tc is just trying to take his/her world and inflict it on the rest of us. My kids are begging for a Windows Notebook for school because the Chromebooks suck so bad!
  • I use all of my Win10 devices for work and personal. That they are all the same and fully integrated is essential. There is no need for any other OS. Business will always be the primary driver. (everyone must work, most workers use PCs)
  • I guess I don't count as a 'real' person then.
    Or perhaps maybe you should realise your use case is not the same as millions of other people out there...
  • I love the idea that someone makes a statement as though they're the only person in the world, this strikes me as typical of iOS users - my Dad is one, until he wants a backup making or a printout :-)
  • Re: X I'm TC,
    Smart TVs rely on apps and apps are transient. These apps are available for a while on the television, and then are gone. Is it on purpose to try to get you to buy a new TV? Maybe the app developers aren't paid enough to put in the effort to keep the apps running? The Xbox and Roku are far better solutions to use with the TV. Hey, I have software from many years ago that still runs on our computers.
    Just my thoughts.
    Best Wishes
  • Everyone I know amongst my friends, family and co-workers still use a PC (including Mac) at home. No one but poor students use a Chromebook only. Just about everything is easier and better to do on a PC than a little internet device.
  • I do, and I know many others who still use a Windows laptop. You exaggerate greatly - quite a talent you have there.
  • Actually the biggest market in PCs currently is consumer laptops. The fastest growing is 2 in 1 hybrids, followed by "a few niche gamers" (lol, gaming is bigger than movies profitwise). So no, that's wrong, empirically. Mobile phones in developed countries are actually on a downturn at the same time. You need to read more about actual market trends before you go claiming things about said market trends. As for innovation in phones - there is none. Dual camera's and other widgets don't count as anything actually useful. Running what is a stripped down equivilant of a webpage isn't innovation either. Mobile phones haven't been innovated at all outside of QUALCOMM chips for ages. Whereas something like VR on the PC, AI on servers - that might have real market legs in the coming years. I wouldn't say something exaggerated, and IMO foolish, like smartphones are irrelevant. But to me they appear extremely stagnant, both technologically (hardware and software), and at a consumer level. I suspect they are essentially a transitional device - the thing that comes before the thing we will carry around with us all the time. As such, I'm fairly sure that neither iOS nor android will form any dominant part of the distant future. That said, I'm not saying apple or google won't, and windows has been planned to change - quite a bit into the 3d one OS vision. But I think people who are super confident in smartphones being "the it technology" are usually boomers, or people in developing countries, who haven't gotten over the initial buzz like everyone else has. And it's likely they have short memories and have forgotten the feature phone, the Walkman, the record player, the pager and so on.
  • I would argue that the mobile space has not shown the level of development you attribute it with in terms of functionality. My Nokia N95 had video calling, GPS with applications to track activity, could play video, music, had a camera, full HTML internet access, applications for productivity such as spreadsheets and word processors and even applications that allowed me to access content from my PC over a network. Speeds and interfaces have improved but I would challenge you to find a function in a modern smartphone that the N95 or early Windows mobile devices lacked. The only function I can think of is the fairly recent addition of NFC allowing payments, but even then with NFC debit/credit cards that has limited appeal. The PC has also been focused on improvements to interface and ease of use. I personally use my service far more than my ipad. The ipad comes with me only if I am off out for the day and am 90% sure I will not need to use it, if I anticipate a need to use a device then my SP goes in my bag, the ipad mini is an emergency device. Web browsing social media usage (outside of a quick post check), photo editing, music streaming to my in home stack, gaming, and of course work. The Surface always my first choice for these things. Since I have a skype number for work it even gets more time on calls than my phone. I know you could argue that I am an outlier however remember that ipad shipments fell -49% between Q4 2013 and Q4 2017 with comparative Q3 to Q4 growth falling from 84% to 3% so it is easy to argue the appeal of the most dominant tablet has fallen somewhat.
  • Dude, this idea that the average person is buying a Chromebook for personal use is comical. Most are buying smaller laptops, like the 13" MacBook Pro, Dell XPS, or HP Spectre series, but make no mistake that most people are definitely still buying full-function laptops, not Chromebooks. The Chromebook sales are mostly schools and younger kids to do basic web research and homework, but the kids reaching college age, as well as any adult with an intention of using the computer to do anything at all useful are going with Windows or Mac. This is helped by consumers' lack of knowledge, the massive in-store selection of PCs, and the fact that any Best Buy employee will talk a user out of a Chromebook because it's "not a full-OS" and "can't even install basic software like Office".
  • Yes but the UWP has not been doing well. For this device to do well, we need more developers porting their x86 software to native ARM. Otherwise its just going to be running x86 software that is poorly optimized for small screen devices. Also virtualized x86 apps are only going to perform "alright" compared to UWP apps.
  • I believe that with PWA's the Microsoft Store will become a lot better than it currently is. I also believe that once PWA's arrive on the Microsoft store, that will open up the ability and usefulness of the Andromeda device. Now I could definitely be wrong, but it seems to me that that is one of the only reasons that we have not seen the Andromeda yet. It just would not make sense when no one has decided to go the UWP route, but all major players have approved of PWA's. The other thing holding back the Andromeda "phone" is the Qualcomm Chips. The current chips are obviously not powerful enough to actually run full Windows 10 OS, as we have seen from the current laptops that have tried using ARM chips. I hope both of those issues will be solved soon, because when my phone contract is done, I hope to be able to get the Andromeda and for it to replace my phone. That is if they build the device I hope they do. The current trajectory of the Surface line is definitely positive and they just need to keep it up.
  • I am patiently waiting. I'll continue to use my Lumia 959XL Dual SIM until the new architecture arrives. I have a backup 950XL Dual in its box in my office in case this one dies, is dropped. I WILL NOT go back to an Android or IOS phone while there are ANY synapses left!!
  • I've been thinking our pocketable devices will become our primary processors, network connectors, local storage, peripheral drivers used wherever we go. As we walk into our offices, it will connect to our work network devices and peripherals such as monitors, keyboards, mice. Same thing for our homes, the offices there, family rooms, where ever we are. Instead of my Pro4 in my office, my "phone" will just connect to a dock, same in my home office and for my family room use, the device there, instead of my Surface 3, it will just be a connectable display, mouse and keyboard. All of the processing, network, internet, cloud connections, offline storage, will be through the small tablet that is also a phone.
    As that size gets more powerful, there will be no need to duplicate it all in every device in the home or office.
  • Exactly what I have been waiting for, a scaleable device that depending on what hardware it is docked to becomes more powerful and unlocks added features of the OS. A docking station with extra CPU and GPU as well as Memory ect ect, making our productivity and everyday life seamless. Like instant upgrades.
  • Legacy platform in the enterprise? Which enterprise runs their business on a phone OS?
  • Will when the new Surface Phone arrives.
  • Sure, keep dreaming, like companies are imbeciles to trust their money again on another MS junk pocket device after their catastrophic failures with the phones.
  • It may not be called Surface Phone, but it better be a Surface Phone like device. Otherwise, I won't touch it. The CShell will be a big selling point for Andromeda. The CShell based Continuum PC will be attractive to all the W10 users. So Andromeda will become a multifunction mobile device - a phone, a folding tablet, a Continuum PC, a Collaborating device, a casual gaming machine, a journal, or a VR/AR Viewer. With the arrival of 5G and more advanced ARM chips, Andromeda could be a very interesting and useful device. It is good that MS will market it as a low volume premium 'productivity' mobile device. The lower expectation would actually help increasing its success potential. It is reserved for the prosumers and the enterprise W10 users. Consumers go to get consumer phones.
  • That's hilarious. PC is on a market growth uptick, smartphones are on a market growth shrink. Anyone that believes smartphones can do everything probably lives in india, and can't afford a PC.
  • What we call a smartphone today could become the primary device to drive all other devices in our offices and homes. Connectivity to networks, monitors, keyboards, mice would happen as we walk into the environment where we need it. As they become more powerful there will be no need to duplicate the processing, connectivity power in the other devices we use today (Phone, Pro 4, Surface 3, Dell Venue 8 Pro).
  • Really? What OS are most businesses running at work now?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems#Desktop_a...
    Even if the number was half, that represents a HUGE number.
    Windows 10m is gone...but Windows?
    Explain your thinking - perhaps I misunderstoond.
    Thanks,
    Mr. V
  • Disagree. There is no need for any other OS than Windows 10 for business and personal use. Better for ease of use, training, and best for full integration.
  • Full integration with what? Stop being a pathetic fanboy at least. Come on, integration with what? MS's ecosystem is a joke. Their entire ecosystem is severely lacking: apps, mobile presence, smart home and appliance integration, car MM integration and Cortana is less than a mediocre joke. But a desperate fanboy like you can dream on
  • Why the hostility man? If you dont like Windows don't use it, why try to dump on people who want more?
  • Why? Windows sales are holding and in some cases increasing while both Android and Apple are in steep decline (-20%).
  • The 950XL is already a small tablet and fits in the stable of Windows 10 devices I have sized for various needs.
    I want a single OS for all my devices. As my business needs (Win10) are my drivers, there is no need for ANY other OS.
    I will always want another device to be small enough to be a phone and big enough to do tablet work when I need it.
    I have a backup 950XL Dual SIM waiting to be used if this one dies or is dropped before the new device is ready.
    While I've tried them, I don't want Android or IOS on ANYTHING! Ever!!
  • I need to replace my Lumia 810! Still rocks on Windows 10!
  • Everything he said. Also, if it is Carrier dependant then I'm afraid this will not be an easy road. I have worked close to all the major US carriers and EVERY associate  I spoke to said that they were told to push IOS and Android and not to even try to sell windows!...and if someone asked about Windows, discourage their choice and push the other aformentioned platforms. They will deny that this was their agenda but they are lying. I have witnessed this myself. If Carrier involvement can be avoided, then it will be successful. Period!
  • This was my concern I expressed in one of Jason's last articles but he didn't respond to it. Instead, he said that carrier support was a positive sign. Sure, they will say yes, have it in stores, but the actual staff selling the devices are so entrenched in other systems that I doubt they will have the knowledge, swagger, and encouragement to push a new category of "not phones"
  • Exactly my experience when I bought my Windows Phone long ago...
  • I personally couldn't care if a Verizon/carrier store stocks or sell this as we always buy direct from the manufacturer or Microsoft store. It's NOT going to be a "consumer" product ... this is enterprise, mobile business users, researchers/scientists, education, etc. That's an enormous market!
  • Every single one of those business employees are consumers as well, and unless this device does something that no other device can do, they'll want what they're used to and comfortable with. There is no such thing as a business market outside of extremely specialised equipment...
  • It's a small size, low spec PC...
    1. I'll use it for portable gaming (gamepad should work fine since it's a Windows), some light weight XPA should run fine.
    2. PC version Edge supports extension. I'll be syncing my code to do automation, stop vid autoplay, hide things I don't want or enhancement, etc.
    3. Inking, quick sketch, occasional Photoshop
    4. OneDrive on Demand so that I can carry more files than a HDD can hold.
    5. Don't think I can run a Unreal or Dx+Havok but I can certainly install VisualStudio for some light UWP programming.
    Not possible on phone.
  • It will be Windows Core, not full Windows. It is rumored to only install apps from the store with no option to upgrade to Windows Pro. No games, no Photoshop and no Visual Studio.
  • honestly, at this point, i feel like its premature to assume it won't run anything outside the store. that's *always* failed. Windows 10 Mobile failed and Windows RT failed. The only reason Windows 10 Cloud is expected to not do the same is the ability to upgrade it. Now, with Windows on ARM coming, it seems even more likely they'll try for full Windows. But, this all comes with the caveat that Microsoft has done stupid things before, so they may do so again.
  • There aren't many rumors about Windows Core at this point, but the most detailed I could find say it won't have any legacy menus and as such won't be upgradeable to Windows 10 Pro.
  • From a business perspective, everything Windows 10 just works and works. The new phone will be aimed at the business environment, which will drive personal use for those people, just as Windows has always done.
  • Sure, I can already see people dumping their Galaxy phones, Lgs, One+s, iphones...for this junk. Sure...keep dreaming moron.
  • I remember reading somewhere, saying exe is possible but certainly not games. Even without VS (I'm sure there will be a UWP version) or PS, XPA gaming and other points I made is enough for me to drop Nexus.
    Beside those work tool, there's nothing else I need from exe format. And I can certainly install VS or PS on my Surface Pro. * WinCore
    OEMs can choose what components they want to include in a device.
  • Why would they do this? They already have the complete code for emulation of win32 on arm, and it features a continuum mode. This makes no sense.
  • There will be business apps in corp envirinments.
  • And those users will use Windows 10 devices when they leave work based on simplicity, common ease of use, and full integration alone.
  • A market that won't give a damn about another pocket device that will be useless compared to the existing smartphones that do an excellent job as pocket devices.
    Only desperate fanboys can think of running win32 desktop apps on a 6" screen...
    Honestly I wish MS does launch this junk only to see them FAIL monumentally again, so I can laugh in you koolaid faces.
  • Pairadyce, of couse I responded to you, and I said far more than, "Carrier choice is a positive thing." Come on man! Everyone knows I'm more verbose than that😃Lol I'll paste that initial response below, but the gist of my response was that first I acknowledged the reality of sales associates as a barrier. I've seen it myself. Now with Windows phones, that scenario was "fluid" in that associates could just "flow" seamlessly from Windows PHONES and direct customers to iPHONEs and Android PHONES. 🙂 There's an inherent difference with this new category of pocketable PC which potentially will not have a competing device in that category on OTHER platforms that associates can just "fluidly" direct a customer to as an alternative. Will there be challenges, yes. But the dynamic would be changed to some degree. Now, in addition to this are the points I put forth in the piece that the virtual "on the fly" carrier choice consumers will have on these devices directly from Windows anywhere they are, gives carriers an incentive to push the devices in thier stores since selling data/voice will be very competitive with this model shift. Thus, it would be imperative that carriers push associates to be both versed and trained to sell these devices, the model for which begins with Always Connected PCs this year. --------------------
    Now here's the response I originally gave you in the "How cellular PCs will change carriers in Microsoft's favor: "I hear you and I know and expressed those same anecdotal experiences about WP. But what I'm presenting here is the strategy, not saying it is without challenges.
    That said, Always Connected PCs will be hitting retail the market and Carrier stores this year.
    In regards to a desktop 💻 computing alternative, with full PC power on ARM, sales associates won't really have to much to show customers as a comparable alternative to Always Connected PCs, with eSIM.
    Now, play that forward a few years when pocketable inking focused Always Connected PCs with full Windows are also in carrier stores. Will Android and Chrome and iOS and macOS be merged and caught up to the work MS has done to make a single OS, down the modular Core OS and UI sensitive CShell that Microsoft has achieved with Windows 10; and what that means on a pocketable device that can be a PC 💻 (Continuum), tablet and has telephony.
    If Google and Apple will not have achieved that by the time Microsoft's pocketable PCs are on the shelves in carrier stores (having also benefited from the work MS and Google along with Apple and Mozilla will have dome to popularize PWAs) these devices will occupy a unique position as Windows 10 PCs, again, with little alternative in that category for sales associates to point customers to.
    There are a LOT of variables and things can play out in a myriad of different ways. Let's wait and see.🙂"
  • Must've have missed this several times then. I'm skeptical but watching. Wait and see is all we can really do, I'm over the anticipatory excitement of Windows (hardware) releases. If it comes, I'll get it but hopefully it will arrive before my x3 goes kaput
  • Jason I have always liked the way you respond intelligently and in a positive tone.
  • The Andromeda devices will come with eSIM that Carriers can be bypassed.
  • Except Verizon requires devices to pass certifications to be allowed on their network. Verizon still needs to allow it at the very least.
  • I can personally attest to this.  Over the course of 8 years I purchased 4 "Windows" phones from AT&T.  In 2007 (before the iPhone), I told an AT&T store employee I would like to buy a Samsung BlackJack.  The employee did everything she could think of to persuade me to buy a BlackBerry instead.  I literally had to ask her 4+ times for a BlackJack before she relented.  If I had not researched & decided on exactly what I wanted before I walked into that AT&T store, I would have walked out of there with a BlackBerry. There are 3 official (not "authorized") AT&T stores in my city.  I had the same experience with all of them, every time. When I bought my Samsung Focus, they told me to buy an iPhone. When I bought my Lumia 1520 over the phone with AT&T because they didn't have it in stock locally, the phone rep tried to convince me to buy a Galaxy Note. A couple months later when my 1520 suffered the "phantom touch" issue, I took it into my local AT&T store to initiate a replacement, the store employee told me "I've never seen this kind of phone before."  20 feet from where we were standing, there was an identical 1520 on display. I remember seeing a healthy push from AT&T corporate for the "Windows" brand a few years ago.  Local stores and their employees just never really got the memo, I guess.
  • Especially  Verizon...if Verizon deosn't like you then you're dead in the US market... After Microsoft Kin I don't think they sold any Microsoft phones...
  • Yes, they did. They sold the Nokia Lumia Icon. I know because I had one from Verizon. The problem came when I wanted to upgrade to the 950XL. That they didn't have. I now have a Note 8, but I sure miss the Windows interface. I think they sold the 680, or something like that too, but why would I downgrade to that from the Icon?
  • I walked into my local ATT Store with my just purchased, unlocked 950XL Dual and asked them to install my SIM. No muss, no fuss.
  • That's what I always do with my whole family's windows phones. I buy them outright and unlocked online. If nobody carries what I want, I don't sell out and compromise my principles. I get what I know I need and make them add it, if any carrier won't then they wont get my business, they work for me in that they are selling me a service, I don't buy things that don't work for me.
  • the Icon was a Verizon exclusive. Beyond that, they had a few other Lumias. And now you can get the Elite X3. Only a few of those were available *from* Verizon themselves as opposed to simply being allowed on their network.
  • Surely the answer to Verizon is to buy elsewhere. If they don't want to play in the eSIM world, then surely they'll get left behind.
  • Because Microsoft killed windows smart phones so fast I can understad carriers not wanting to activate the Andromeda's device's phone. but however The FCC has rules.carrier must OBEY. Microsoft will sell this device as a dual screen mini tablet not a smart phone. this a new category device because it's a PC with a built  cell phone. Microsoft shoudl not have killed windows 10 mobile until Andromed was layunced . AT & T may be the only one to carry the andromeda device. or Microsoft will sell the device and the purchasers will have to have the carrier give them an Account, sim card and phone number
  • How long before delusional fanboys like you understand MS is in no position of forcing anything to anyone in this matter?
  • Works for me, I would rather not buy the device on a plan and pay 2 to 3 times the price in the end anyway.
  • I managed a T-Mobile store between 2013-2014. Never once were we handed this edict and never did I tell my people to do this. This wasn't something we heard at coporate meetings or manager trainings or any such thing. We sold people whatever they asked for. We also recommended and sold many Windows Phones as well. Unless, of course you believe that my store was the sole exception to this rule and the hundreds of other stores out there were doing this. 
  • AT&T stores everywhere pushed other products over Windows. For every purchase but the last (more on that in a minute), I was stongly encouraged to chose another device other than Windows. I think it was more of "what you know" and since all the store associates had either Android or iPhone, they naturally pushed people to those products. Plus I think the makers of Droid phones offered cash incentives for each device sold. Microsoft attempted an insentive program for the last round of phones and that certainly helped but it was short lived. They even had a Microsoft rep in the store so this is the only time I was not pushed towards a non-windows device. When I went back to AT&T because I was having sim card issues, the girl behind the desk picked up my phone and asked what it was. When I told her she said "Oh we have lots of problems with those. You should switch phones". The new SIM card fixed everything but that shows you that at least in AT&T stores, there was very little support behind Microsoft devices and OS. 
  • A few years ago, when you could purchase a Windows Phone, my mother called me while she was at an AT&T store. She asked me which phone to get. I told her she'd be fine with a 640. She said OK. A little while later she calls me back and tells me how the AT&T employee(read idiot) did everything in her power to convince my mother not to purchase the 640. The girl kept telling her to get an iPhone or whatever. My mom said, no, I want the 640. Then the girl started talking about how hard it is to use a Windows Phone. She asked my mother, "So how do you open your email?", as if my mother is an idiot. Mother said, "I click the email icon right here, just like I do on my Windows PC." The AT&T idiot finally gave my mother the 640. Most people would have given in and purchased whatever the store idiot told them to buy. This was not an isolated incident.
  • The AT&T sales person did well in recommending something else. It's their job to recommend the best option first to all customers, no matter what Microcrap fanboys think. If Windows Phones would have been that good, they would have recommended these instead.
  • Yea right, all carrier sales reps sell what they are told to sell, their not trying to save the world. I have been watching your comments and a couple of others, you all sew discord wherever you go. Your actions suggest you feel you have been really hurt by Microsoft or you have some financial interest in sabotaging people's interest in them. It's a tough pill to swallow that you guys actually are trying to help educate people with the level of insults and troll tactics you employ.
    So there has to be some other motivation otherwise why would anyone be so vindictive in their postings?
  • Microsoft couldnt advertise their way out of a wet paper bag. Carriers discouraging the purchase of windows phones is just the cherry on top of the microsoft failure cake.
  • That is the future. Buy your phone device outright, then carrier provides just a SIM. This has been my model for the last three years. I ain't taking ant provider hardware!
  • I have seen the same thing, they even lie and say stuff like its hard to use and not intuitive.
  • Don't expect any huge surprises... It's just a nice, extremely portable PC for those who want one... Just because a new type device is coming doesn't mean that it's initial goal is to dominate the market. It's just different. Take it, or leave it.
  • What I'm looking forward to most with this Andromeda device?
    1. Powerful REAL multitasking
    2. An expanded application catalogue over what WM currently has to offer.
    Dual screen, and pen support, in my pocket.
    3. Finally, the first true Windows pocket PC.
    4. Support, which has been missing from pocketable Windows devices for some time now.
    5. The exclusive (for now) Journal applications packet for this device.
    6. The chance, once again, to have a growing fan base, possible up tic in developer support, and the chance for MS to get it right, as they have with ALL Surface devices to date.
    7.... THE MOST EXCITING THING TO PONDER ABOUT ANDROMEDA IS VERSIONS 2, AND 3, OF THIS ANDROMEDA DEVICE... That's when the device will really begin to take shape.
    ...................
    If MS can just get this first device to market, fans, and enthusiast, will be in business. Can't wait.
  • 1. We don't know what the multitasking abilities of Windows Core will be on a smartphone interface. Certainly won't match full Windows or even Andoid.
    2. ‎The application catalog will actually be smaller than WM. Silverlight has been cut out and it likely will not run any apps outside the store.
    3. ‎It isn't "true Windows". It will be a cutdown version with all the legacy stuff cut out. No legacy menus, Win32 apps, etc. Store only and no upgrade to "Pro" if rumors are true.
    4. ‎Support? They certainly aren't supporting it by releasing UWP apps today. We will see, but they don't seem too dedicated to UWP today.
    5. ‎It will have some exclusive apps for sure.
    6. ‎We will see. Doesn't sound like it will be a big seller, just like all the other niche Surface devices.
    7. ‎If Microsoft doesn't kill it a month into the first edition.
    .....................
    It better be more than amazing. Another "me too" touch tablet thing isn't going to turn any heads.
  • The Surface Pro isn't a big seller?
  • Not really. They do ok, but they are still below 1 million per quarter for all Surface devices combined.
  • Who gives a **** what you think?
    ......
    Stop following me around just to disagree. If you know I don't care to chat with you why do you continue? Stop harassing people here.
  • Not what I think. Rumors are Windows Core will not have the legacy parts of Windows. It is "Windows Core" not full Windows.
  • As I understand it bleached windows core is supposed to be code common to all of windows. The cshell component, then adapts to the Ui environment that it's presented with. As such, I don't actually see why andromeda would be incapable of win32. It might not run those apps in "tablet mode" perhaps, or maybe it will, maybe it won't have win32 on release, or maybe it will, but if the "windows core" is to be the new core code to all the new forms of windows, including polaris, the new desktop, windows based on windows core, and all the others that will come (the new IoT, the new enterprise, the new xbox, the new HoloLens, the new hub etc etc) then this should not be seen as merely a kind of distribution version, but rather as a 'module' of a greater jigsaw they are building for a single average consumer version of the OS. And as such, even if it doesn't do so on release, the plan would be that if it has the hardware chops, and you plug it in to a hub, it should run exactly like windows for desktop (or rather polaris). likewise you should be able to put it into a "game mode" and use it like a console (if it has the chops). Or stream a desktop, onto a phone, and use the desktops OS, in a phone UI. That's the whole idea between this "One OS" concept. It's not building hundreds of detached and non-relating versions of windows. It's ending that - one OS core code on every form of hardware platform used, and every type of input and output. That's the entire repeated mantra of windows 10, and UWP. The long game Microsoft has been talking like a nagging wife about since they released windows 10. Arguably the biggest software project in the history of operating systems, and hence the delays, but that's the whole goal - the windows this device runs, will have at the heart of it, the same operating system that drives everything on a Microsoft device. The only thing that is supposed to be different, is supposed to be able to adapt to conform to the form. And perhaps this will be a halfway step, so maybe it won't have win32 on release. But I think all this bears mentioning - windows core, or andromeda, or any other windows core project, such as the hub 2, or polaris, are not supposed to be independent products. They are supposed to be slight manifestation and device based variations with an identical "heart". A singular OS, not many. Peices of a jigsaw puzzle building a singular beast - where a line of code goes "is this currently a phone = if yes, display phone UI", etc.
  • Feeling sick fanboy? Had too much koolaid? I honestly wish this junk Andromeda device is released so I can laugh in you F face rodney, when it FAILS.
  • MS is not positioning this device as a smartphone.  Because it is not.  It is a pocket cellular PC with a foldable display which you can see more and do more.  It is a phone when folded, a tablet when unfolded, a desktop with Continuum, a notebook/Journal with Ink/Pen, a MR Viewer, and a collaborative tool with Whiteboard.  It will leapfrog beyond the smartphone in terms of functionality and productivity support.  It may not be called smartphone, but it could turn out to be a monster mobile device later.
  • Exactly... IDK what's so hard to understand about this.
  • Because it will be a smartphone first and foremost. It will be folded and in your pocket ready to ring. Unfolding into a tiny tablet doesn't change that and neither does Continuum. If it is bigger than 7" and doesn't fit in your pocket, then it won't be a smartphone. It will be a folding tablet and then it won't compete with smartphones.
  • if it's successful it could change the definition of what smartphone is. Palm Devices were smartphones at one time.  Then blackberries were smartphones.Now we consider iPhones and Androids to be smartphones and the previously mentioned we consider dumb phones If the new Andromeda is successful it should redefine what a smartphone is.
  • True..
  • dumb phones
     ↓
    new OS (not Win nor Mac) running on ARM that can make calls, we call'em smart phone
     ↓
    Windows + ARM
    The bigger one with long BAT life, light weight, e-sim ready, you can throw it in your bag and use it as a pocket wifi when you travel or send people oversease. It might looks like a NB or 2-1 but it's still different...
    The smaller or dual screen... sure, it's also an OS running on ARM that can make calls but it's not a smart phone cause it can do more. Maybe we should call it... ultrasmart phone or exceptional phone?
  • Can Windows Core do more than Android?
  • Yes. Eventually at least. Windows core is the shared code of every single future manifestation of a Microsoft operating system - from smart devices, up to virtual reality and gaming. The whole idea is that it can do A LOT more. That it's not bound by input method, output method, or system hardware. Whether andromeda will do that I release or not, well I very much doubt it. They need to build each iteration of the 'variants' individually - desktop, xbox, hub, HoloLens, mixed reality headset, IoT. Hub 2 will likely be the first. Then andromeda, and then polaris. When we get to that point, we might start to see the form of the unified beast.
  • You must've thought that time you might get me to agree with your BS.
    ........
    Sorry, time number 345,567,981 didn't work either... Maybe next time?😭😭😭😭
  • It won't matter what they call it! A pocket device WILL compete with smartphones, no matter what imbeciles from MS and fanboys think. And it will FAIL because it will have NOTHING, no ecosystem, no pocket apps, nothing better that the competition. Folded as a tablet? :)) With what UI and what tablet apps? Wincrap 10's tablet mode? :))) Be serious.
  • Microsoft would need to submit the device for certification on Verizon Wireless's network and enable the network's data bands. Given how Microsoft has stayed away from CDMA carriers since the retrenchment, I suspect that any new devices will first be offered to GSM carries like at&t and T-Mobile.
  • Verizon is a launch partner for the Always Connected PCs, so no reason to believe Andromeda won't be on Verizon too. I think Andromeda will be treated like a successor to the ACPC -- a PC first, just always on and with a smaller form factor so that if people want, they can stop also carrying a phone. Ironically, to get carrier sales support (not just running on the network), it will either need to be sold as an additional item to a phone or have a more expensive data plan so that Verizon et. al. see a finincial benefit to pushing sales. Or, I suppose MS could incent sales financially, but that doesn't seem like something they would do. Seems more likely MS is not expecting much carrier sales support for this device and plans to sell it like a PC through those channels.
  • Can I put it in my pocket? Yes. Will it make telephone calls on Verizon? Yes, technically, US phone company weird decisions not withstanding. Will it be good with voice input? No. It'll be OK with voice in the US and all appalling with voice outside the US.
  • Did you read the article or the previous rumor article?  It said it will be able to make calls and send texts like a phone. It also said it would be foldable and fit in a pocket.... If this all turns out to be true and the size is right then I'm in.  I'm sick of google, they have strayed far from their do no evil path and I want out of that eco system as much as possible. Problem is aside from disliking the iPhone I trust apple even less than google.  They recently handed all user data over to the Chinese government as part of a deal with datacenters located in China.  That means every apple user worldwide not just those in China. I tried windows phone on an HTC one m8 and while the phone itself was one of the best I've ever used (I also had the Android version) the OS and apps we're god awful. I tested 15 simple RSS feed apps and found only 1 that worked and even then it was only about 1/4 of the time plus the GUI on that app as well as most others was horrifying. I have a surface pro 4 and love it, I also am quite fond of Win10.  If they could shrink that basic experience down to something like a phone, even one that folds I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
  • What's the updated information?
  • If it's as good as the Lumia 950XL, Dual SIM, it will be a super device.
  • Now LG has joined the foldable device club! MS needs to hurry up!
  • MS isn't making another smartphone... Foldable is only a fraction of the equation.
    LG's device will run Android, and be a smartphone.
    .........................
    Andromeda is a PC. End of story.
  • More importantly, Andromeda will be heavily about inking and the only smartphone OEM that remotely invests in that is Samsung. LG's device is not a threat.
  • If "Inking" was an important market, then more smartphones would have it and Microsoft would have continued bundling the pen with their Surface devices. Obviously it is very niche, otherwise Microsoft would have kept it bundled.
  • Thing is, you bought a SP3 with pen and keyboard, years later, do you need another set of pens and keyboard when you are going to buy a new Surface? If you really want the new gen pen, you prob got it long before your next Surface upgrade. If you really want to buy a bundle... wait for the campaign... It's called OPTIONS.
  • Referring to the foldability only...which comes to consumer mind between choices!
  • You're right.. The consumer will see them the same "IF" MS doesn't do an EXTREMELY god job of properly marketing the device.... That's what's scary.
  • God help Microsoft!
    The marketing of Surface Fold is more challenging than making the device itself!
  • How do you make the argument that a small touchscreen slab that makes calls and takes a sim card and replaces your iPhone isn't a phone? Can you argue the Lumia 950 isn't a phone because of Continuum? Not convincingly. If each screen is any smaller than 7", then it is a phone and competes with phones. Semantics won't change its competition.
  • More of the same stupid questions.. Do some research🙄
  • Some research into how to market a phone as not a phone? What? Do you have any actual argument? You could at least say "It is a PC because Continuum!" Or " It is a PC because Inking!" or maybe "It is a PC because it unfolds!". You won't make those arguments though because they don't hold water. A device with a ~6" touchscreen is a phone in 2018. Windows Central knows a Windows phone has no chance so they are trying to say it isn't a phone. I doubt Microsoft will go down that path. If they release a device with a ~6" touchscreen, they will call it Surface Phone. Even their engineers have recently slipped and called it that and the codename is a phone number. IF Microsoft releases it, they will call it Surface Phone.
  • Samsung Note series - supports inking, has cellular connection, Continuun like Dex... and it's still considered a phone...  However, If the device is more like the Courier..a device that functions like a digital notebook...they just might be able to market it as a different category  
  • I'm not reading your unnecessary BS, so I will say the same thing I did before... Stop asking stupid questions, and do some research of your own...
  • That will never happen bleached likes to just shoot from the hip without researching anything. I'm sure bleached believes that Apple was the one that "made it first" on the plethora of features in their iPhones that someone else introduced and apple just used and rebranded. 😞
  • Do you know what people like him are called?
  • Realistic people, that's what they are called. Not delusional morons like you.
  • What research? Your delusional comments show how desperate you really are. Besides you desperate fanbabies, no one would ever replace a perfectly working and capable smartphone, with an expensive device with no apps from a company well know for lies and product abandonment. You can scream all you want, the facts are the facts. MS screwed up badly and their catastrophic history won't be easily forgotten.
    A phone size device that makes calls, but it's not a phone - do you honestly hear this nonsense? :))) name it how you want, it won't matter.
  • Maybe you should stop dreaming and stop embarrass yourself as a desperate moron, rodney.
  • Semantics did change the competition though. Surface was marketed as a tablet remember? The result Windows won out and Android tablet ecosystem severely suffered.
  • Don't you mean "wasn't" marketed as a tablet?
  • What? Microsoft didn't penetrate the tablet market at all. They literally have less than 0.5% of the tablet market in the US. Tablets are kinda useless when you already have a large phone. Convertibles didn't effect tablet sales, phablets did. If you want to see the numbers: http://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/tablet/worldwide
  • Because those are slate tablets. Slate tablets have largely died off and have been replaced by 2 in 1 convertibles and detachable. It's semantics at this point. No large OEM makes Android tablets anymore. 
  • Don't entertain his unnecessary negativity.
  • Sorry, Microsoft's reality is not positive unless you are talking about cloud servers. That isn't my fault.
  • Do you even know what a "cloud server" is?
  • Lol!😂😂😂😂
  • I meant Azure or whatever.
  • Furthermore do you even know what MS's roadmap is? Do you know what they are doing for a model in anything? If you can't answer those questions accurately how can you say what MS's reality is if you don't even know...
  • Surface Pro and the like are convertible laptops. Even Microsoft calls it a laptop. It competes with laptops, it takes sales from traditional laptops. Nobody goes looking for a tablet and decides to buy a $1000 laptop instead. The $1000 Surface Pro doesn't compete with the $300 Galaxy Tab. Totally different devices. The decrease in tablet sales is due to large phones. Why bother with a new tablet when you have an always connected, large screen phone with you all the time? The iPhone+ killed tablets.
  • A large screen phone and a tablet are different things. I admit that phablets have played a role. But in terms of OEM interest 2 in 1s have  pretty much replaced tablets and therefore Android.  If you didn't know we already see cheap Windows Tablets that cost $300.  
  • You're right.... Microsoft never said it was "the device that can replace your laptop"..... SMDH 🙄
  • By the time you get to a high end Android tablet, you're competing directly on capabilities and price. I bought a surface because I wanted the tablet, ironically, the keyboard is rarely used, but protects the screen. I think tablet sales are flat because people buy one Android tablet, realise they can't do anything useful, so don't upgrade, I bet a higher percentage of windows OS tablet users upgrade, but that's my opinion, I don't think any of us know the real reason - I've got 5 windows tablets in the house, 1 dual boot Android & Windows, 2 HP touchpads converted to Android, it's the windows tablets that get used for real work, the Androids pretty much occasional sufing and Plex for Chromecast. My sons prefer windows on their tablets, maybe this is a reflection of the demand in 10 year, who knows. The biggest problem I have, is often to get tech to work you need an Android app, but once setup works fine with Windows, hence the need for the dual boot.
  • Only Samsung and Huawei..but those are not large OEMs right? by your desperate fanboy thinking...
  • Market share isn't everything stop being a stat monkey. Show some actual numbers of devices in users hands that will be the real count.
  • You have to sell them before they can be in users hands. 0.3% will tell you everything you need to know about Windows tablets.
  • since you like "Statistics" so much why don't u look at multiple sources: https://netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?options=%7... https://analytics.usa.gov/ your one jaded source isn't the best statistic. if you look at those results you'll see that Windows isn't going anywhere so a mobile device leveraging a full OS that has telephony is not a horrible idea.
  • I think that says the exact opposite. Look at the trend. Android is increasing steadily and Windows is dropping steadily. What will that look like in a year?
  • That's not what the long term view shows, expand to 2 years and you see a meteoric rise in Android, a drop in Windows, but both level off towards the end. There's a complete stagnation in all OSes. I'm not sure how much we can look at specific tablet data, do we know if they're treating the surface as a tablet or a laptop, in reality it's neither, so if the company producing stats doesn't say how they call it. The problem is the water is being seriously muddied by these convertibles, and I suspect the Andromeda will just add another complication. This is where the user is allowed to define the device's purpose. We all know an iPad is a tablet, even if you add a keyboard it's still a tablet, but the surface is a tablet to some and laptop to others. At the end of the day getting hung up on device naming semantics is a waste of time, if the device works for me, you can call it what you like, it works. I don't call my Surface a tablet, it's know as a Surface, this is where you want to be, defining the category of device by your copyrighted name, that's good business, so long as the category takes off.
  • They actually usually treat it as a laptop, sadly. The metrics I have read say that hybrids are the fastest growing form of tablet, and the fastest growing form of laptop - and laptops are the fastest growing form of PC. Also Samsung android tablets, and ipad sales have been dropping predictably for about 5 years (hence why they released the budget version). Now that doesn't say windows is taking over, ipad is undoubtably king, and budget androids still get some sales, but it does show, unlike premium android and ios devices, and the tablet market in general, windows tablets and hybrids has the potential for growth, rather than shrinkage. That's significant, but we really can't predict the future.
  • Android is about 34% of the tablet market.   Windows is about 0.3%.   Try again. BTW, iOS is 65% of the tablet market.   Doesn’t look to me like Windows did anything to the tablet market.  
  • Tablet sales are way down, but that isn't due to convertibles. They are just kinda useless, especially when you have a large phone in your pocket already.
  • Tell that to Apple.  They are still selling 40-50 million iPads each year.   That is nothing to sneeze at.   If Microsoft had sold 50 million windows phones each year, Windows Phones would still be around.  As it is, there were about 110 million windows phones sold over the life of the products, about 7 years.    
  • Apple doesn't make money on volume. The iPhone is about to be surpassed by a feature phone OS, KaiOS. Apple makes money on charging the bejesus out of their consumers and spending billions on avdertsiing.
  • The only issue with what you're saying is the fact that all those Surface "tablets" don't get counted as tablets at all, and MS could care less if they do..... They count as PC, which is an entirely more important metric.
  • Is it? It is important for Microsoft to undermine their OEMs?
  • Is it? It is important for Microsoft to undermine their OEMs?
  • Is it? Is it important for Microsoft to undermine their OEMs?
  • Do you know whether they've put the surface in the tablet category or laptop category?
  • They bucked the trend and ctreated a product that is actually growing, not shrinking in market size. Look at samsungs and apples sales of their tablets for the past five years. It goes one way, and that's down every year. Hybrids are actually growing quite fast, which is why both apple and Samsung are trying (and failing, the ipad pro has sold dismally) to cash in on the trend.
  • What exactly did MS win in the tablet market?? :)))
    Read the fact first before being delusional:
    http://gs.statcounter.com/vendor-market-share/tablet/worldwide/#monthly-...
  • @bleached, this is really simple -- the form factor alone does not dictate the device type. It's certainly a factor and there may be many who refer to it as a phone (which is fine, that expands the market), but if MS sells it as a smaller Always Connected PC through traditional PC channels and promotes it in places where people look for PC info, then it will be perceived, at LEAST BY THOSE CUSTOMERS as a small ultra-portable PC. I'm also pretty sure your mistaken that it will only run Store apps (maybe by default, or in a lower priced model that can be upgraded (like Windows 10 S), but not exclusively). I don't know that and maybe I'm the one who's wrong, but I believe the entire point is that it's a PC and everything MS has done over the past year has been to say if it's Windows, it will at least run Win32 apps. So it probably won't run 64-bit applications, but at least everything we think of us conventional 32-bit apps should run. Again, I don't have an inside source on this, just stating my expectation. I would agree with you that if it doesn't, that's a serious blow and does make it harder to claim to be a PC.
  • netmann, I think we’ve already settled this. SURFACE SCRIBE!
  • according to the insider leaks... SURFACE JOURNAL  j/k
  • 😂😂😂😂
  • Don't you mean "Surface Scribe"?? 😆
  • Oh man if were relying on ms to market something then were in trouble... I'm still finding out about really awesome ms products that I had no idea about. It's like going to a restaurant with a huge menu you don't know what is good and what you want because the menu is so big. Marketing isn't MS's strong point and it shows so bad.
  • Yep..
  • Something we can all agree on :-)
  • "The tablet that can replace your phone"
  • Lol.
  • I'm not sure whether your "god job" was a typo or not, but it's fitting either way 😁
  • Microsofts past efforts at advertising leave me pessimistic about this new device's chances.
  • PC--personal computer.  Smartphone=pc that you can talk on.  Skype=telephony service owned by MS available on desktops, laptops, smartphones, tablets, etc. If it has microphone Skype makes what ever it is on a telephone!
  • Honestly, who (besides the crazy troll Bleached) gives a 💩 what It's called?
    ..........
    Either buy one, or not. If you have no interest in the device then leave it alone, and go away. Lol
  • MS, Google and Apple are reportedly the early customers of LG foldable screens.  MS will probably use its own hinge design. https://mspoweruser.com/microsoft-said-one-lgs-first-customers-new-folda...
  • Andromeda won't have a folding screen. It will be dual screens that fold together and it looks like it will fold both ways.
  • I think the phrase you're looking for is "may not" not won't because there haven't been any actual device leaks only patent filings.
  • Where is Microsoft going to get a folding screen? They do not build screens. LG and Samsung build screens. Samsung's will be available soon but they are going to keep it for their own devices. LG is supposed to have theirs available, but it must be at least a year out. All the recent patents show two screens with curved edges that almost butt against each other and a hinge that rotates 360°. At this point, it is kinda obvious what they plan on releasing from patents and leaks. The size of the screens and the UI are the big questions. If Andomeda is coming soon, it certainly won't have a folding screen.
  • True but there could be patents we haven't seen or to your point ms has found a way to make the screens appear as one without the need for a folding screen piece with some crazy projection or syncing or something.
  • I have heard projection rumors, but not in regards to the screen gap. That is an interesting thought.
  • There are MS patents around creating the optical illusion of a single screen. Two curved edges that meet at the hinge, and use a graphical processor to make the surface look flat. We'll see how convincing it is, but you still won't be able to draw a line with your pen across it, or use that part of the screen for effective touch input, so far as I can reason. This sort of mode will be more like for watching Netflix, or a presentation than interaction IMO.
  • I THINK I've seen that tech. It's good, but it's not exactly the same concept. It uses two folding screens yes - but one of them is a special e-paper than has friction like a paper writing surface. That writing surface acts as a "keyboard" to the OS on the other paper. It's intended more explicitly as a notepad type of experience, and is thus, less flexible, but potentially better for some use cases. Certainly it'll be interesting to see what comes out of it.
  • It would have to show a good measure of success for me to even consider it. No matter how good it is, I would be afraid to invest money and time into it because the tech press will poop on it, developers will ignore it and Microsoft will not put any real effort into it.
  • Ever since the Surface Pro 3 all Surface devices have been met with acclaim from the press. This device will surely benefit from the Surface brand as far as press coverage is concerned. There will probably be comparisons with smartphones and tech journalists will wonder if a device like this could replace your smartphone, which may damage sales of the device because of the app gap (though how big its impact will be noticed on this kind of device remains to be seen, of course) but it's not an unwarranted comparison. In any case, I wouldn't expect the tech press to treat this device particularly unfairly.
  • Well if you consider Consumer Reports as part of the "press", then not all press outlets gave it a raving review. 
  • No one should consider consumber reports as part of the "press". 
  • Because they mention an issue Microsoft themselves documented? It was well known the Surface line has suffered from launch issues, especially the SP4 and Surfacebook. There is no denying they had quality issues, but you blame Consumer Reports?
  • Agreed. However 2017 devices had no such problems though. 
  • It is perfectly fair to "blame" Consumer Reports for their conclusion about an entire product line based in the non-scientific survey they conduct each year. Their conclusion was not based on their testing of the products. The annual survey of their subscribers- who are not a representative sample of the US population- is entirely self-selected and does not include any confirmation of proof of ownership or use of the products. The only conclusion that the survey accurately reports is that a subset of wealthier than average Americans who are more likely to be owners of Apple products may or may not have actually used a Surface device but nevertheless reported issues with them in the past. Consumer Reports does a fine job with its product testing. It really needs to stick to that.  
  • Their "non-scientific" study matched Microsoft's own report. You still doubt it?
  • Don't blame Consumer Reports and don't discount the survey.  They only highlighted the issues some people had with the Surface Product.  If the results were stellar then this site would be hailing the results.  But because some poeple didn't like the results they want to discount it.  I've never had any real issue with my SP3, but I won't discount other people's experiences.  Good for Microsoft!  What Consumers Report should have told them is that they needed to step up their game and make solid devices.  Get some quality control in the game and then they wouldn't have to worry about negative feedback.
  • Whodaboss,  the exact same thing happend when CR reported that the macbook pro was getting crappy battery life.   All the apple fanboys were carrying the pitchforks for CR.   But some other device apple has gets a glowing review,  and CR are 100% credible.   Fanboys are fanboys no matter what color their koolaid.  CR has credibility.   Simple.  Even Panos stated they gave the surface a 25% failure rate internally!  
  • Why? because they are not delusional fanbabies and speak the real facts?
  • I don't think they count as a press outlet. Anyway, "raving" is too strong of a word. Most reviewers have praised Surface devices for the many things they do right but they do point out the unfortunate issues as well.
  • The challenge will be to get people to buy in at that price point. Many of the Microsoft faithful have been burned too often and too recently to jump in at roughly $1000. There's the high possibility based on recent experience that Microsoft will bail on it. Others will be hesitant to invest because they're already invested in Android or iOS in the mobile space and they'll need to see how the device can function in a day in the life scenario. I'd like to see this device be successful, but Microsoft has an uphill battle. We'll see if they can make it work. 
  • This is what I know....
    1. Can't come soon enough
    2. My pocket is ready
    3. My other pocket is ready
    4. And, my bag is ready to hold my new Android device.
  • hope CancelSoft doesn't disappoint :)
  • Lol
  • I am in. Just let me know when they want my Order. Been waiting way too long for this.
  • Agreed. Obviously, Microsoft should not release anything until it’s ready. But, if it is ready, an announcement soon would be perfect timing.
  • usually thye anounce 6 months before the product is ready ...so that the competitors can deliver on their counter startegy before Microsoft's actual launch :)
  • I think their actual goal is so their OEM partners can release something similar but it does give the competition and edge in getting a similar device to market also but that's the nature of free market capitalism.
  • If it's marketed as a pen-first device, they have a problem. A screen has to be quite a bit bigger than 6" to be properly usable with a pen, and two 6" displays with a physical seam down the middle simply won't work. You can't write or draw across a physical gap. As a pen-first device, it HAS to have a seamless, bendable display if they want it to fold to a 6" form factor!
  • galaxy note is only 6.5 or so?
  • And it's not properly useful with a pen, or even pen-centric for that matter. And doesn't have a crease down the middle. We're talking about a device here that puts pen interaction at the forefront, not just as a gimmick. A device where the pen is supposed to be the primary input device. The device will have to display graphics across both screens, and if there's a big old crease in the middle where your pen physically won't have access to, the device will fail. The only other solution is to have two screens with no graphics crossing from screen to screen, in which case it'll also fail.
  • Any device with pen as the primary input will fail. It will be like the Note, touch primary but pen capable. No way Microsoft makes that mistake. If they do go that route, it will be a severely niche product.
  • That's a valid opinion, although not one I agree with. There's nothing stopping such a device from being usable, just like regular pen and paper has been popular for centuries and still are... As long as it's actually functional for the usage envisioned, it could succeed; with a crease down the middle, it won't be.
  • Especially given that they have literally made that mistake already!  People forget that MS was one of the first players in mobile devices, but they just got it all wrong, but in many ways they were way ahead of the curve.  If they haven't learned from those times then yeah, this will fail miserably... but assuming they have, and I have to believe they have learned from that experience, then this has a shot.
  • I am sure they learned as well. I just hope they don't market this as running Windows. I hope they pivot and rebrand though. Windows has too much baggage. They should leave it to legacy form factors.
  • I remember seeing a Microsoft patent that makes the bezels in the middle almost disappear...not sure if this is the one...  
  • Got to agree, I rarely use the surface pen, it's clever, works well and you can see plenty of valid situations where it would be good, but I still use a fountain pen and paper, it's quicker, but a pain in the butt to backup and index - I scan all my work notes, put them on onedrive. Maybe I've just justified to myself the 'need' for a go, to replace the paper and pen on my desk.
  • When unfolded the device WILL be bigger than 6", the idea with Andromeda is that the interface will scale to fit, so, when folded, the interface may look a little like Windows 10 Mobile which makes sense and when unfolded it will have a tablet style interface but will probably lack the traditional desktop until connected to an external display.
  • If you look at the Axon M, each screen is 5.2" but they only unfold to become a 6.75"screen. That hardly requires much of a change in UI. It certainly doesn't allow a good experience with legacy Windows. The screens need to be big on this device and even then they want unfold much bigger. Each screen needs to be 8" if they really want to differentiate.
  • 6'' will unfold to 8.5'', which is fine for even typical desktop apps.  So I'd say 6" folded would be about perfect.
  • 10" is small for desktop apps. 8.5" is not productive. You can't buy an 8.5" laptop for a reason. It is hard to even find a 10" laptop. It likely won't run desktop apps anyways unless they are in the store.
  • Depends on how wide the device is. Hard to take a 6" device now and say it would reach 8.5" diagonal. The Elite x3 wouldn't even have a visible range that size unless you include the bezel. I kinda agree with a 7-8" estimation for each half, especially if bezel-less
  • Right, you would need a 14:10 aspect ratio in order to go from 6" to 8.5"  when unfolded. 14:10 also is the only aspect ration that stays 14:10 when unfolding.
  • Yes, as I pointed out. As I also pointed out, the joined screen will have a crease down the middle, judging from the patent fillings. This will not work out for a pen-first device; you can't draw or write across a crease, let alone select or activate icons and such which happen to be located in said crease.
  • Irrelevant.  If you ever had a paper-based notebook did (or would) you ever have written from one side of the opened notebook to the other across the central spine?  Of course not.  You write down the left-hand page, then down the right-hand page.  There is no reason to expect that the inking (writing) user experience with such a device would (need to) be any different than with its old-school analogue counterpart. As a tablet, the drawing experience on a foldable mobile device may be somewhat limited by the hinge but that would be a minor issue.  If you are going to be a user for whom drawing with a pen is important, maybe this device is not intended for you.  That does not mean the device couldn't be successful, with an inking experience, for most other users who are potentially interested in using it.
  • I wouldn't, no. That's the point. If all you did was jot down to-do's, you'd get a small notebook (A6). If you wanted to take notes or doodle, you'd get a medium notebook (A5). If you wanted to make larger diagrams or do any sort of serious drawing, you'd get a larger notebook (A4+). With this device, you're probably stuck with the A6 version, and this is serious overkill for writing down to-do's...!
  • I think it will be possible more than likely they have devised a way for you to run the pen across the hinge without it catching or hanging in it. As long as the physical action doesn't get stuck the experience between the two screens should be the same as running your mouse across two bezelless monitors that are butted up against each other it should be pretty much seamless. It's not that the technology isn't there because a pen input to the OS is very similar to a mouse input just with actual pressure sensitivity.
  • If this comes to market and, given past experience, that is a big if then you can bet good money that MS will sell the pen separately.
  • I'm afraid that's not possible. Graphene screen technology exists, Samsung and Microsoft co-own the patent, but it's far too difficult to manufacture graphene on commercial scales for it to be affordable to anyone. Think 10k USD for a device. Any foldable screen released this year, next year, or the year after will have a seam. It'll be visually minimised, but it likely won't be able to receive smooth t touch or pen. You'd be drawing on one screen. However it could be 6.5 inches per screen It could be wider on each panel than a typical smartphone, more like a xiaomi mi max might of width. At that size, fractions make a difference, so we don't know. They might also find a way to make the pen work on smaller surfaces by adding paper like friction
  • I'm cautiously optimistic. I think if MS can get a good grip on the fundamentals of telephony and SMS (i.e., don't let Skype ruin it) it can be a real smartphone replacement. If they can't differentiate enough to compel users to ditch the smartphone, it'll be hard to market as a companion device. That's my non-expert opinion anyway.   
  • Ok, sounds awesome. But it will need to get the party soon - not last. And it will need to actually work right out the box (no half-baked OS, random reboots, etc) . And it will need to work on AT&T and Verizon. And it will need a huge marketing campaign. And it will need MS to stick with it. And the app store... Sorry, but I just don't have faith in MS anymore.
  • They could launch it outside the US first; much less hassle with carriers and subsidising and a much more positive customer base! If it caught on, they'd then have a much better position for an effective US launch...
  • Tiny customer base for this hug priced product and realistically, developers are attracted to the US. Not launching it in the US would be a huge mistake.
  • Me too.. Heart broken..
  • "Microsoft can cancel or change plan anytime" 😅
  • Do you think that Apple, Google, or any other company doesn't develop products, then cancel them before they come to market?
    ........
    Has MS officially announced this device?
  • They didn't cancel the Pixel, Nexus 7, Android Wear, etc. They did cancel the Nexus Q though. The important things get released.
  • Google glass? Fuschia? Companies cancel projects before release all the time.
  • MS will have a long uphill battle with this but I'm very curious how this will turn out and wish them the best. If it becomes successful, in a few years we may all wonder how we could walk around with one-screen phones when you could have two screens (of course, even if this happens there is no guarantee that it will be accompanied by a success of this particular device).
  • I don't have much interest in the device. I'm not going to carry this and an Android around, and if they're done trying to be a smartphone, Android will win. In theory I can imagine how it would be useful to carry both, but in my use cases it would not justify the price. I'm optimistic there are enough business users who would benefit from this enough to pay up, but I'm not one of them. Maybe after a couple iterations it will fall more into the category of lightweight laptop replacement rather than phone replacement, and that will probably interest me more. I am really curious to see how well the software works, though, since that is an indicator of much more than just one not-quite-a-phone, not-quite-a-tablet device. If full Windows on ARM seamlessly transitioning to different screen sizes is a thing, that says a lot about the potential for Windows going forward.
  • Merely curious... What does your android phone do for you that this device won't be able to?
  • A mature app store with dedicated developers. A touch first interface that doesn't require a pen, keyboard or mouse. Compatibility with wearables and other IOT devices. We know it will not have a decent app store. Even Microsoft barely supports their store. We haven't see the interface yet and we can be quite sure it will have compatibility issues that Android does not. It will have a questionable future and a creator with a poor track record in this space.
  • I didn't ask you, and you didn't even answer the question... Precisely what can you do on your android phone that you can't do on this? I can come up with one thing; public transport via an app. That won't work from a pc. That's pretty much it for me...
  • We'll, in order to answer your question we just have to wait for this device to be announced. At that time we will know what it does and what not.
  • Pretty much no one uses IoT or wearables in the consumer sector, unless its a fitbit. Outside of basic functions on a wearable IoT is just a hobbtist realm/novelty. Most of it has very little in terms of practical value and thus return on investment. It's a very slow smouldering industry. 99.9% of users don't use 99.9% of those apps either. Like the google playstore looks great at first. And then you use it. It's full of crud. Now, there are some more quality apps in certain areas than windows - true, but once you remove all the crud, it's not as dramatic as an android fan might like to pretend. Windows has an interface that doesn't require a pen or a keyboard. Plenty of people use their windows devices touch only full time. The only thing that WAS missing was shape writing. Sure, _some_ legacy power apps (which you don't need), scale poorly. Like if it was writing 7 years ago with no updates, lol. Or by someone with really sloppy programming design. But you can't run then on android or ios either, so just don't run them. Doing so is like trying to get into a Linux command prompt in android. It's silly. Everything you need is there, including loads of stuff that's touch useable and no other touch platform can do - so don't mess with that decade old windows 95 stuff. You're being very general, and very exaggerated here in a way that doesn't help your case. Especially because you have no idea what andromeda is going to be like (it's the first puzzle peice of a new universal OS, so it'll have it's own UI elements, it's own engines). You don't know what it will run, what the UI will be like, or even the size of the device. I think if you weren't so melodramatic and hyperbolic you could probably make quite some sound points. But the way you make these sweeping, cynical overstated statements makes anything valid you might happen to be saying seem invalid.
  • Depends on the future. Developers are increasingly moving to PWA instead of native support. Windows 10 Redstone 4 already supports PWA, Microsoft will automatically add them into the Store in the future.   Native development will likely continue for more complex scenarios, however I expect majority of the development going forward to be PWA based. 
  • The much whinged-about "app gap" will be less of an issue going forward as the way users consume software changes.  PWAs are rising in popularity (particularly with software developers).  It is also possible that, in a similar manner to how W10M is able to run old-school Windows Phone Silverlight apps, the new Windows Core OS target platform for UWP apps may also be able to run existing UWP apps that target PCs as a form of backwards compatibility.  Microsoft has more recently been targetting PC-oriented apps for the Microsoft Store, and have managed to get some big/popular names on-board.
  • Show me at least 10 PWAs, good ones that are on par with their native counterparts, that are more than just some basic junk web wrappers...Twitter gets close, but that's it. So your statement that pwas are increasing in popularity has no backup at all.
  • Well there aren't many big PWA's. Google has a few. Ubers one is pretty much the same as there app. I think you make a fair point, in an overstated way. PWA apps aren't somehow worse quality on the whole than android apps (which themselves are often pretty terrible), but there are very few. It's early days. It's success will be more dependant on big players getting involved initially. Should that happen though, and I personally think it will, the vast majority of the app ecosystem on mobile operating systems will be made redundant. Which will indeed be interesting days.
  • Outside of smartbands like fitbit, wearables and IoT devices, at the consumer rather than enterprise level, are niche, hobbyist products. Like really most people don't see the financial point in a robot lady who tells you the weather and orders Chinese nicknaks at higher prices than direct from china, or lightbulbs that turn purple on command. It's a really slow growing market. I think the most powerful consumer application so far is environmental control personally, and that is going to be a slow uptake, because it'll be somewhat dependant on new house builds and rennovations. VR is the bigger new tech, by a large margin. I'm not saying that some people don't find that useful, or that any of your other comments are 100 percent inaccurate (they might be exaggerated for effect but not entirely inaccurate) - but this particular issue, it's really a non-issue for majority of consumers. They don't care about IoT beyond the novelty, and they don't care about wearables beyond something basic like a fitbit. I can see why they don't want slower smaller, lower battery life smartphones that are hard to control, bulky and don't even make calls on their own, myself. They really aren't "there yet" and probably won't be for some time. They are empirically significantly more interested in being jumpscared by high res VR zombies, or titillated by high res VR porn. Which, tbh, is kind of logical.
  • Mobile apps. Stable OS. Supported platform. No guinea pig insiders.
  • "the category of lightweight laptop replacement rather than phone replacement, and that will probably interest me more." - isn't pretty much the whole point in many ways that it's both - a phone, a tablet, a laptop, and if you dock it a PC? What exactly would be different about andromeda if it was "more into the catergory of a lightweight laptop replacement"? It's already got one screen you can use as a touch keyboard, and position it in a laptop types position (along with, tent, tablet, and phone modes).
  • For a standard current PC or Tablet, I would say the minimum storage for an enjoyable experience is 64GB. I remember hearing that the Win32 stuff is a majority of the used space for W10, because it's so heavy. How will the space difference be with emulated Win32 and the Core OS? Would someone with the 64GB variant need to constantly be worried about storage after they install a few heavy apps and start taking pictures? This the current case for 64GB tablets, hopefully it won't be for this device.
  • There will probably be a Micro SD slot for pictures but I don't think this is the kind of device you'd install many heavy apps on, so I don't think that's a worry for now.
  • I actually think this device is meant to install heavier apps on than say your average smartphone, especially if they can get the Continuum experience where it needs to be. Why carry a laptop if you have a full PC with you? Granted this still requires carrying a keyboard, mouse, and USB C to HDMI to hook to a TV with you if you want to do real work on it, but the ability is there. Much more there than with the old 950s. I can see a SD card, but I don't think it will have one, and perhaps even eSIM only (though currently this wouldn't work) as this is what they are trying to push. I am probably wrong, but I can see it being a USB C only port only on it. Maybe not even a headphone jack.
  • Heavier than on a smartphone perhaps, but not as heavy as on a PC or laptop. You could have a few heavy Win32 programs installed for the special occasion but generally I don't think this could replace your PC (nor is it supposed to), so I don't think you would install that many old programs on it. All Surface devices so far have had an SD slot, so let's wait and see.
  • It is rumored this device will be limited to the app store only. No legacy Windows menus and no upgrade to Pro.
  • Where did that rumor start? That wouldn't be consistent with MS' behavior and directions with Windows. I expect it to run Windows on ARM with emulation support for Win32. No inside info, so maybe I'm wrong on that, but that certainly seems to be the direction they're taking.
  • By initially saying heavy, I really meant large space apps (big mobile games), not resource intensive. Though both are good to consider.
  • With the amount of hardware device space available (twice that of a smartphone), only some of which will be the larger battery, and considering the small size of arm SoC, and the given price, I can't really see why they wouldn't have large storage. If the include win32 emulation, it might be as an optional module. IDK. But personally I should think if the pricepoint is 1000 USD+, given the amount of space in the device, they'd do better than 64GB as a top spec model.
  • The real question here is..Will Microsoft get behind this product 100%, will they push the boat out and spend $$$$$$$ on Marketing OR will they do a tentative 'let's see what happens' approach and 'retrench' for the millionth time. They have lost me, will wait at least 12 months before buying any Microsoft product, just to see if they have the balls to support what they make. As for getting everyone talking LOL. Who!!!  only the few people on this forum and the editors who make a living pushing the dwindling consumer offerings by MS.  No one outside of this has heard nor cares about Andromeda, the devs certainly dont.
  • As I've said a million times before.... Marketing was the root cause of WP's failure.. Chicken egg crap is BS.
    ......
    Proper marketing will determine if you fail, or succeed, no matter what you are selling.
  • I also blame Google somewhat for the failure of WP by not bringing their apps to the platform, especially when Microsoft were bringing their apps to Android.
  • While I can understand your logic, I won't endorse it.
    ..........
    MS is a big enough corporation to be held TOTALLY responsible for the success of everything they do.. NO IFS ANDS OR BUTS ABOUT IT.
    If I thought MS did absolutely everything in their power to make Zune, WP, Band, Socl, Groove, and other projects, work,, I would then begin to look for alternative excuses.
    Ask yourself 5 questions:
    1. Has Apple done absolutely everything they could do to make iOS a success?
    2. Has Google done absolutely everything than could do to make Android a success ?
    3. Has Samsung done absolutely everything they could do to make Galaxy a success?
    4. Did Nokia do absolutely everything they could do to help make WP a success?
    5. Has MS done absolutely everything they could do to make WP a success?
  • I never said that Google was solely to blame though, did I?
    What I'm saying is that without popular apps no amount of advertising is going to matter, consumers go where the apps are. So, while the lack of advertising is down to Microsoft and Microsoft alone if the apps aren't there then consumers aren't going to be worried and carriers aren't going to push it either. MS is responsible for the platform but NOT the apps that's down to the developers, in this case Google. Why do I feel like I've stated that about a billion times before!!!!
  • Whoever said you said Google was solely to blame?🤔
    ..........
    And, I can't believe...
    1. A year later you're still talking about a PC not having apps, as if it were supposed to be a smartphone, or replace a smartphone.
    2. A year later you're still saying It's supposed to attract masses of consumers, compete with smartphones, and even be sold through carriers?
    Yes, we know you have said these things a billion times. That's what the problem is. It's a PC, just like a Surface Pro, or desktop, or laptop, or PC stick, or tablet... Damn man. Why is it so hard for some of you guys to wrap your brain around the fact that this device most likely will not follow the "mobile app, carrier, competition" smartphone model?
    Why? Why can't you separate the two? After all this time, and all the explanations from Windows Central, fans, and enthusiast alike, why won't it finally sink into your head.... THIS IS NOT A SMARTPHONE FOR LITTLE JOHNNY TO BUT AT VERIZON, AND PLAY GAMES ON. THIS IS NOT A SMARTPHONE AT ALL. THIS IS A PC!
    How many PC'S were sold around the world last year without the apps, and carrier support, guys like you keep panicking about? What makes this device any different? It's a specific PC form factor. No consumer needs every PC form factor. Some will buy it, some will not, and the majority most likely will not. That's typical. But, it is not supposed to sit on a shelf next to an iPhone, perform as an iPhone, and be expected to sale in iPhone numbers. Tell me, why are you still, after all this time, thinking that it is?
    .........
    The only person remotely foolish enough to continue to say what you're saying is Bleached.. We expect more from you neo158. You're a smart guy. Do not allow yourself to be categorized with him.
  • It does not matter rodney! You keep barking the same crap over and over. A pocket device, no matter if desperate fanbabies like you or MS call it pocket pc, phone etc, without pocket apps, it's DEAD!! Get it through your thick skull already. A pocket device needs mobile functionality FIRST, which MS no longer has because some imbecile decided to retrench.
    But what am I trying to convince a delusional fanboy...I will wait the day when this mythical device will come and FAIL just to laugh out loud in your fanboy face and see you rip your nails off in despair that your favourite crap company failed once more.
  • Microsoft wasn't bringing their apps to Android until fairly recently. You certainly couldn't get Office in 2011. It Microsoft's services weren't capable of competing with Google's, that isn't Google's fault. Google isn't responsible for Microsoft's competing platform. What a crazy statement.
  • Agreed,  Google not putting their apps and the total lack of marketing or caring by MS is what did in phone. 
  • As a former (Nokia) Windows Phone Developer evangelist, I second that assessment.  Lack of marketing combined with lackluster support.  At tech events attendees constantly asked me where Microsoft was and why they weren't strongly promoting WP.
  • I give a big fat EXACTLY to that.
  • Obviously they knew Windows phones were bad and no amount of marketing would fix them. Marketing wasn't the answer and it takes a ton of time to rewite an OS.
  • Who gives a **** what you think?
    ......
    Stop following me around just to disagree. If you know I don't care to chat with you why do you continue? Stop harassing people here.
  • No. Marketing only gets your product in the door. Then the product has to stand on its own. People who bought Windows phones didn't buy more and didn't recommend them to friends. Marketing wasn't the issue. A poorly designed platform was the issue. Marketing is just your scapegoat so you don't have to admit Windows phones just sucked.
  • Depends what is meant by "marketing." If that just means promotion, then I agree with @bleached. If it's the full span of marketing, including all the P's, then I agree with @rodneyej. I'm a marketing guy, and promotion is just a small part of it. Product development and setting the strategic partnerships and channel distribution strategy needed for overall market success are much larger parts of the marketing mix.
  • Yeah!! That's what i thought.. "everyone is talking about"?? What the hell man!!
  • They have already said it will be an enterprise device. Which means it will be marketed very little if any. So I guess we'll see what happens.
  • Considering their proven bad history, all the lies they spilled all over, etc etc, not even $100 billion marketing would ever matter now. Some desperate fanbabies like rodney would eat up any crap they come up with, but the rest of the world would simply do not give a damn.
  • As soon as Microsoft releases the specs and release date can you just right a bonafied article about it then, please?
  • You don't think they will?
  • I think he's asking them to save it till then...
  • #condescendanc
  • Alright, we will.
  • Excited, yet I still need more actual use cases. To have a $1000+ note taking devices will not cut it. I am in the IT field and would welcome the dilemma of "should I take my SP4 with me or not" and just have an Andromeda device.
  • Will all the W10m apps be able to run on it? It would be useless without whatsapp for example
  • Might I suggest Telegram or some other messenger that also works on desktop?
  • Silverlight/Windows 8 apps are not compatible. I think that includes WhatsApp. I am not sure though.
  • I work on highways and have been looking for a digital replacement for for clipboard and pen. This way I don't have to transcribe my reports from Pen to Digital, I can just use one medium and that's digital. Looking forward to more details.
  • Note 8 if you need something pocketable.
  • Why on earth are you guys waiting for a useless device from a company that has a proven catastrophic history..it's beyond my understanding. Have you tried a Note 8 for example? You have a mature OS, all the apps you want, excellent pen support and a company behind that won't abandon it after a few months, or deliver you guinea pig insider tested updates.
  • This rumored device will "leverage" off the already announced "Windows on ARM" 2-in-1's from HP, Lenovo, etc. The carrier battle appear to be resolved as MOST carriers - especially for us,Verizon - will support the WoA devices with their eSIM. Supposedly they are "Spring" ship dates (April/May?) and the SD 845 is heavily tied to the Samsung Galaxy 9 launch and rumored available mid-March. I would buy this TODAY ... and it's a Satya Nadella "announcement of a new category", so I'd bet Microsoft will pitch this heavily going into Build and Inspire. I agree with the others ... this will be an uphill battle but Microsoft knows how to pitch and market the Surface line !
  • The Surface line is low volume. They don't sell that well at all.
  • That's a misleading statement. If you factor in the OEM devices that it inspired and that are intended as the high-volume devices based on the intentioally aspiration price point of the main Surface devices, they sell VERY VERY well. Think about all the convertibles and 2-in-1s. Those move significant volumes.
  • Is there any indication that MS will choose to launch this type of device before there are PWAs to run on it? I doubt it would stand a chance with only UWPs. And with Google postponing the launch of PWA (strangely timed, as the postponement came just after all the patents of MS's foldable device were released), very late in 2018 or even in early 2019 seems appropriate/likely.
  • PWA support is currently in the Insider Builds with Services Worker support for Edge. So PWAs would come when Redstone 4 releases. It's likely that MS will automatically add PWAs themselves to the Store. Doubt Developers would mind it though. 
  • Service Workers isn't restricted to the Insider Previews, it's an experimental Edge feature which means that it's on the production ring as well.
  • Fall is more likely, esp if they will use SD845, and red stone 4 or 5?
  • I hope Microsoft has enough sense not to release this hardware in its current form. This dual display device with hinge has been done before by Sony in early 2010s and as recently as 2017 by ZTE in axom M. Though, the form factor is intriguing, it is far from perfect in its current form. The kind of foldable device Samsung rumored to be prototyping seems closer to the mark than Microsoft's andromeda device. What Microsoft needs is a single foldable flexible piece of glass for such a device. Now I get that the core technology may be out of Microsoft's hand since it is a domain of Display Groups like that of Samsung's, LG's, Sharp's, Japan Display and the likes of other display glass vendors. And that is okay. Better late to the market than wrongly executed firsts. I've been so excited by LG's foldable TV. Not because of TV itself but what it may mean for foldable phones. I hope Microsoft's hardware division is in on the foldable R&D projects of Samsung's, LG Display's and the likes and get to be the first licensee for such technologies. Until then, I hope Microsoft keeps its cards closer to its chest. Surface was on to something, and so can this device, if, Microsoft can execute it with the right hardware with single flexible foldable display glass in a seamless manner. Coupled with an adaptable CShell on top of Windows Core OS with telephony stack, great camera capabilities, ARM benefits of power efficiency with power, and ability to run full Win32 programs through Windows on ARM and Microsoft may as well be onto something. Until then, fingers crossed. Oh and I love the inking, journal note taking aspect of it. I hope this angle makes the cut in the final product.
  • What current form? There is no leak of the screen design at all. They have various hinge patents, and even those don't shown how well it will work as a tablet.
  • By current form I mean the rumors. From article: "According to my sources, Microsoft's own Andromeda device is an ARM-based foldable tablet that features two displays joined together by a hinge mechanism in the center of the device."
  • Which will probably make use of a flexible display as well, so no bezels down the centre splitting the two screens.
  • Where are they going to get a flexible display in 2018? No one is making one yet and they are at least a year out. No way it has a flexible screen. Maybe version 3 if they get that far.
  • But also keep in mind Microsoft has filed a few different parents about folding devices so we really have no idea how it'll work and I would think regardless of the design of the hinge itself you could incorporate a foldable screen
  • Samsung's device isn't Andromeda style whatsoever. Currently all patents and leaks lead to a flip phone style foldable.  Single piece of glass is almost impossible, since glass can't bend well, you'll need to use plastic screens, which gives the feel of cheap, easy to scratch and terrible for stylus and pens.  
  • someday, graphene ;)
  • Even if they put out a device that isn't what you were hoping for, Microsoft will then be able to get feedback from actual users to improve the device.  So getting the device out early won't hurt anying.  Obviously, the software needs to be ready and nearly bug free at release, no exceptions there.
  • I'll be honest, I'll only remain mildly interested in this device. It's not a tablet, but it's not a phone. It's certainly not going to replace my desktop, or MacBook. It's enterprise focused, but we don't know what special traits that entails other than a stylus, which something like the Samsung Note series already has. It's not consumer focused, so it presumably doesn't have the most outstanding traits that consumers look for. There's only one device (phone) that I'm finding truly exciting this year, and it's not coming from any of the normal phone manufacturers...
  • I'd say I'm interested, but extremely wary. One of my main questions is when I fold it out, do the screens actually meet, making it appear basically like one large screen, or is there a gap between them, like appears to be the case in that Engadget mockup?  The patent picture looks like maybe there's no gap (a very small one anyway), so that's what my curious... hehe... HINGES on.  I don't want a Nintendo DS... but make it look, feel and function like a single screen?  Yeah, you've got me interested.
  • you should see the 3D concepts that were recently released.
  • Fzammetti, you should be more worried about Nadella's committment.
  • I would bet it will launch just before the Holidays and not early on in 2018. Developers may get an early take.
  • I'm really hoping that this thing will run the desktop version of MS Outlook. I have +/- 5000 contacts in my address book all of which are custom categorized and color coded to correlate with my calendar. I travel extensively, and would love to have access to this system (which I've developed over several years) without having to pull out a laptop or a tablet when I jump into a rental car.
  • "depending on whether Microsoft can get the software ready in time" - so what you are saying is it never will happen? Cause Windows is now in a perpetual insider build mode for the general public, just not as buggy as fast insider ring.
  • "....what are you most looking forward too..."     Owning one!
  • I own a phone, tablet and a laptop. I carry to work, a phone and laptop. When I go out, I just take a phone. I can't speak for everyone, but I would like to carry as little as possible when possible. My tablet only used for play at home, and rarely turned on. I hope Andromeda is amazing, with many apps available for more productivity and FUN. Otherwise, I can't see the point of the platform. If that is so, that it is amazing, would be nice if this OS can be load on the Lumia to breath life into the mobile devices.
  • So you would like to loose your one device that has everything and cost like 1200€  when you go out? Good luck with that.
  • Agreed - I want to carry as little as possible.  That means one device - my personal device that I can use for work as well.  Segregate the data somehow.  I also one one experience (hmm...one common OS). Yes, I share the fear of this device or concept coming out - then being abandoned....
  • +1 for the one device to rule them all. If this elusive device is the jack-of-all-trades(phone/tablet/laptop) then sign me up.
  • The only thing we do not seem to know is when Nadella will terminate the project. He terminates most everything but the cloud so why should this be any different. Cynical? Yep, but fool me once, fool on me, fool me twice, fool on you. In MS' case they have fooled us many more times than twice.
  • To be honest this is probably the most relevant comment on this article. I have some optimism the device will make it into fruition, regardless of whether or not it'll be any good. I don't have any faith it'll be pushed and supported in the long term because, well, Nadella.
  • More discussions about vapourware...meanwhile the fruit compnay will release their new "me too" device in February.... Hello Homepod.
  • Apple's brand is powerful with the consumers...so Homepod will be a hit!
  • Ricardo, how do I explain this, but you're not using "vaporware" correctly. Vaporware are products officially announced by a company that are late to market, or face multiple delays. What we are talking about here is a product leak, not vaporware. Ironically, you mention "the fruit company" and their new "me too device", which at this point IS vaporware. (1) officially announced (2) delayed multiple times. (3) currently not available. Look it up.
  • "The fruit company" why don't you just call it Apple. Why trying to make yourself interesting? This is pathetic, Ricardo
  • Like some other folk, I hope this new device will not have any or significant carrier uptake, at least in the initial period.  Based in the UK and working in some foreign climes, I want to stick with my PAYG arrangement.
  • My only fear for this device is that it may have 2 individual screens with a huge black bar down the middle where it hinges. Personally I'm hoping for the 2 screens to fold into a larger screen and be as seamless as humanly possible. The inking as a primary input doesn't worry me. I've been trying to use my Surface Pro with just the pen for the past week just to see how I would get along with it and I've been pleasantly surprised. The handwriting recognition in particular is top notch and even leaves my Note 8 in the shade there.
  • Sooo...will this come true!?! I hope so. Can someone give me a practical use for this device that a current phone can't do.  Ok, folding..got it...but beyond this. It looks bigger than a mobile device (fit in a pocket) or is that the plan - bigger than a phone? Very interesting - I just hope MS follows through.... Mr. V
  • I suspect they will have no problem at all in achieving the "low volume" goal.
  • In six months: "Microsoft to drop Core OS and traditional shell efforts, next release to use GNOME desktop by default" j/k More likely: "EN-US only"
  • I look forward to a time that my mobile device can do everything my current desktop can do. That way if I need to I can dock it to whatever I want, lapdock, desk dock and even a dock that can give extra GPU power via thunderbolt type setup.
  • Nah, after windows phone, band and everything I bought from MS in the past I will not trust in this unless it is branched as "surface" or "book"
  • Of course it'll be under the surface brand.
  • I'm excited about a device like this.  I love Windows.  I'm not excited by how Microsoft has been moving away from consumers.  I think they need at least some of the consumer market in order to get enough units out there to make it relevant.  Without consumer support they will never get enough support from developers or manufacturers to keep it going and they will end up dropping it like they've done to almost ever other product they launched that they failed to support.
  • Call me when Nutella is gone....until then; nope.
  • By the time it will come there will be plenty of foldable phones around I think.
  • This sounds like the device that will eventually replace my Lumia 950. I'm happy with Windows 10 Mobile until then.
  • This will work for me if: - The OS loses those legacy elements that just don't work at that size screen
    - Office apps are optimised for the form factor
    - Touch and pen use is smooth and lag free
    - I can plug it in an external display and use a mouse and keyboard (Continuum)
    - I can run Chrome or Firefox
    - It fits in my pocket Given my work is not that resource intensive, I'd be happy with a device like this to replace my phone, laptop and tablet. If it does, I think it has a lot of potential.
  • Slow news day, WC? Let's rewrite the same article over and over again with almost 0 additional value, but write for Andromeda because it's hyped here..
  • Had to step out of W10M and loving my OnePlus5T but I cannot wait to go back to a Microsoft mobile solution. Far too much of my personal and work life is intrinsically linked to MS through OneDrive, office 365, movies, Xbox, etc. Trying to move and mask that experience on an android device has been somewhat successful, but there's no question that Microsoft services work way better on Windows
  • I can definetely agree with others in that companies almost NEVER take up new technology out of fear of change or taking a risk. Look at Kodak and the digital camera for example. Look at Atari declining to become the biggest shareholder in Apple. Look at landline services and the internet itself. If there is one thing that is true, it's that you could have the whole world against you, but still be a hit int he end. Unlikely it would happen with something not as significant (even Windows Core OS), but it is definetely possible.
  • I can see it working for boring Office 365 business users maybe, but take up will be tricky unless there is a shift away from reliance on apps. The MS store hasn't even got a Kindle app. The web version of their reader is a clunky version of the Windows .exe. I have installed AMIDuOS on my SP4 to get decent apps. Maybe if that could be installed on this device, I might be interested. Also, if there are some Uber cool applications or games that have a wow factor only available on such a device, there might be a ripple of interest.
  • I don't even need a phone. I have a Samsung Gear 3 with LTE and make phone calls via a BT headset paired to it. Texts are a pain in the rear though. Have this thing work with my Gear and I will happily ditch the phone.
  • The fabled foldable not-phone Surface Unicorn.  Hugely expensive niche device that will be mobile and a "sort of" tablet that you can, if you really want to, make phone calls. However, don't call it a phone. Will it join the Surface Mini in a warehouse or actually be built? I can't see the market. It's standing on an island surrounded by burnt bridges. Right now the Surface brand is very successful but compared to Lenovo, HP and the like it has a tiny market. Some estimates say 2 to 2.5%. The Microsoft advocates who would spend money on this device, show it to friends around the water cooler, bring up the purchase in a company meeting all used to have a Windowsphone. Some even had a Groove subscription and a Band. They also now have Android personal devices now.  My feeling is that even if this fourth reboot of mobile in 10 years is a really excellent product there are few people out there that will not be thinking - how long will this device really exist? Most everyone else will say "what I really want is a phone, not a tablet".  If the Surface Unicorn creates a new category and the rest of the industry scrambles to catch up it will be great and I might even be able to afford the Lenovo or Dell clone. However, Microsoft has no consumer ecosystem anymore, and this will be down to the enterprise. In all the technology I don't see the business case for buying the Surface Unicorn for $1000 instead of a Note 8 (for example) with it's rich app ecosystem.
  • I have been in a MSFT ecosystem for over 30 years and have been using high-end WM/WP phones from inception...due to MSFT's abandonment of the mobile space, I recently replaced my Lumia 950 with a Galaxy S8 and haven't regretted it...I am using the MSFT overlay software on the S8...what I find most curious is that MSFT's apps and services are much superior on the Android platform than it was on WP...also I have all the apps to my heart's content at my fingertips...I do miss Live Tiles and hope MSFT can add it to its overlay one day... '
  • I've considered this device for use as a digital notebook because I'd read in some articles that the device might use epaper for one of the screens. I've tried to go fully into OneNote or Evernote and I've always abandoned it for a Moleskine because the feel just wasn't "right" and often neither was the accuracy. (Although I haven't used the newest version of the Surface Pen or the Apple Pencil, which might provide the feel I'm looking for.)  I really wish that Microsoft would use e-paper for one of the two screens instead of (allegedly) OLED for both. If a second version of the ReMarkable tablet makes it to market I'd probably choose that over this device even at an equal price point. If Sony ever releases a 10" version of their newest epaper device I think I'd choose that over this too at an equal price point. 
  • I think that some of you need to expand your thinking. As the saying goes, "think outside of the box".  I know that it is also said that past performance does not guarantee future results. But, I think Microsoft may be heading in the right direction. I've never owned a Windows phone and now I am certainly glad that I didn't. Yet, with the Surface line I think that they can re-enter the consumer market. If I ran a company then I would listen to my fans. Take some of what they say and build my business. But, like all businesses. I would have to run it in the end to be profitable and fans have their own interests at heart. I at times don't like change. Though change is necessary to keep up with an ever evolving marketplace. Microsoft could stay ahead of this curve by creating a market for a product. Apple has done this and are now falling slightly behind. Apple seems to have gotten gun shy so to speak when it comes to innovation. Microsoft has had some missteps. But, man is not Microsoft coming out and have come out with some cool stuff? Maybe they have learned from those mistakes. Only time will tell. I would think that many fans of Microsoft would be excited about what may come from their labs. I know that to a degree I am...
  • Slow news days, WC? Let's rewrite the same article over and over again with almost 0 additional value, but write for Andromeda because it is hyped topic here.
  • Microsoft  should make a Verizon enabled Surface Andromeda device. but make a deal with Verizon that Microsoft will sell the device online & at it's Physical stores because if Verizon sales Personell will not sell their Andromeda folding pocket able PC tablets then Microsoft will. the Folks who buy the Andromeda device  then gets a sim or it's activated over the imternet or by telephone call to Verizon with a service plan. Microsoft can also have third party sellers like best buy also sell the Andromeda PC foldable tablets also.
  • So much potential, so much hope it will be good. However, given the past few years of Surface, I doubt I end up getting the thing. Microsoft has increasingly turned their hardware division into a brand known for its price tags more than its features. I would buy this at the price of a typical smartphone--say, $700-800. I wouldn't dream of touching it at $1,000. It's probably going to end up punching users in the wallets over 4 figures, given the way they've done Surface since the Surface Book and Studio and Laptop and overpriced Pro refresh, but I really wish Microsoft would build a market through competitive pricing, like they originally did with Surface and Surface Pro. Price will be the biggest point for me with this, not because of what I can afford, but because Microsoft has done such a poor job of offering customers good value of late. I don't like feeling ripped off when I purchase a product. Things like the Lumia 920, pro-2016 Surface Pro, Band, non-Samsung WMR HMDs, and Xbox One X have shown great value from Microsoft products. However, the XB1X is more an outlier these days, as the New Surface Pro, Surface Laptop, Surface Studio, Surface Pen, and this Surface Laptop with REAL Windows 10 stuff has me rethinking Microsoft hardware as a good idea for buyers. If this thing isn't priced competitively with high-end smartphones ($800 or less), it won't take long for the market to either starve or be met with competitors who steal the concept, polish and iterate, then beat it in price.
  • It could be priced at 500$ at still no one but fanboys would give a damn about it. Spending money on another half baked MS device that will probably be abandoned in a less than a year is plain nonsense. Their monumental failures and simply imbecile behavior are enough of a proof.
  • "What are you most looking forward to with this rumored Andromeda device? " The return of seamless mobile synergy between devices which was lost with the end of development with Windows 10 Mobile. So many syncing issues was created because of that disconnect in OS and app API development for Windows 10 Mobile 😔
  • Im upto galaxy s8
  • This Andromeda should be given in affordable price for those who still holds the windows phone device till the date, people should agree with me. A $1000 for such device is like market rates down ⬇⬇⬇⬇
  • "Summer" is not a date. Summer means June, July, August, December, January and February. The same for "Fall". That is also not a date. #fail
  • Zac??? What's the deal? Is Andromeda a done idea for you, and WC? No mention at all of it lately.
    What happened?
  • Can we stop talking about this mythical thing until something concrete comes out of Microsoft on the issue?
  • Just skip the article!
  • It is my job to talk about unannounced projects.
  • I'm extremely interested in Andromeda. But I keep hearing people wanting a Windows Phone, and I don't think this will make them happy. I'm starting to think that this device will cater to a very specific group of people. Those who aren't too big on using a phone other than a tool, but needs a compact device that can replace it as well as give a decent work space that phablets / tablets don't quite fill.
  • "Our sources now suggest that Microsoft has delayed its launch into 2019 due to not being able to complete the OS to a good standard in time. So, the delay allows Microsoft more time to finish up the OS and fine-tune the hardware." This is a way to look at it. What is positive in this is that Microsoft makes itself primarily responsible for the performance issues they still encounter. The phrase "complete the OS to a good standard" I read as dealing with these performance issues. If this interpretation is justified I am not sure to be honest. Tests with currently available ARM devices (like this recent test from the HP Envy x2 https://www.techspot.com/review/1599-windows-on-arm-performance/page2.html) with Snapdragon 835 SoC, the current flagship from Qualcomm, do indicate these performance issues however. Unclear is if conclusions drawn for the current Windows 10 OS can be held against the upcoming Windows Core OS iteration Andromeda OS. In these conclusions the performance of the x86 emulation on ARM not on the desired level yet. The Qualcomm 835 falls short of the Atom based Celeron N3450 (what isn't quite a powerhouse itself). Again, it is difficult to judge if this connection between the current W10 OS and the Andromeda OS is made too bluntly. Positive aspects could be mentioned as well when using a Snapdragon 835 SoC. The battery life is awesome, Browsing with Explorer and Edge is fast. The ARM device wakes up very quickly as well. As I understood it Microsoft did delay the Surface Andromeda to be able to incorporate the Qualcomm Snapdragon 1000 SoC, that is told to offer better perfomance on the x86 emulation part. About if this new SoC is making the difference we have to be critical however(https://www.extremetech.com/mobile/272186-new-details-leak-on-pc-focused...).
  • Who else would Ms blame for performance issues? They are the OEM and os creator lol
  • They are OEM when the device exists ;)
  • Double post can be removed
  • Double post can be removed
  • *triple
  • I can't disagree...
  • I feel sorry for all you Americans. In the UK the carrier has zero input into what phones are allowed on the network. I can buy a phone sim-free from Amazon or wherever put in a sim-card from any carrier and it will work fine. The only thing that has never not worked has been visual voice mail - big deal don't care. So if this thing comes out and it can be used as a phone then I can run it on any of the UK networks.
  • Yep I think anti-competition laws here protect us in this regard. No way would EE be able to ban Samsung (for example) from working on their network.
  • We have many consumer protection laws which have been pulled back in the US and carriers here are treated more like a utility company, whereas in the US they are not. Furthermore, they have alot more private money and lobbyists influencing politics whereas in the UK it's really subtle and not so evident.
  • Thanks for your sympathies. It's only one company, Verizon, and it's because they use a different format than almost everyone else. And you get similar results... no visual voicemail, carrier specific apps, etc.
  • Why? I've been going that with my phone on the us for years. Do more research
  • A month or two ago, after the Verge posted an article similar to this one, Mary Jo Foley at ZDNet reported that she had word from Redmond that Andromeda has been cancelled. There's no mention of this in this article and no indication as to exactly what is new in Aug 2018. So what's new and what's the project status? I admit I skimmed it because after a while, it's all blah, blah, blah. This just looks like recycled blog content to me.
  • Please read this article https://www.windowscentral.com/whats-going-microsofts-surface-andromeda-device
  • It's been updated as per the date at the end of the article and it's not been cancelled. If anything it's just conflicting reports (polite phrasing for petty office politics). Furthermore that ZDnet article saying Andromeda was cancelled was published before Surface Go was released as well.
  • Zdnet article did not say it's cancelled. And since you won't read the article bc blah blah what exactly do you want ANYONE here to do but tell you exactly what the article you won't read says considering you'll have to read our responses. Laziness at it's purest form...but you won't read this either
  • I've seen this constant reassurance that the "Surface Andromeda" will be foldable, pocketable, and run all day [whatever "all day" means]. OK -- the 2-3 Windows-on-Arm PCs that have come out, have promised some 20 hours of battery life. But they weigh in at some 1.2 kg or so, I think. Meaning they have big batteries. I understand that a smaller screen will use less battery power, but to get "all day" battery, I'd guess...
    * either the "Andromeda" needs a big battery = big, heavy
    * runs really slowly, and/or
    * uses new, low power technology for screens, etc. [didn't Intel promise new screen technology with 50% of energy consumption? There is probably a catch, though...]
    So -- I'm curious: will the "Andromeda" be really slow so that running x86 programs in emulation mode is totally unrealistic?
  • Use woa device. Gather your own opinion. I think you'll be surprised
  • I am personally a huge and persistent fan of this Andromeda device and "new pocketable device category". During Satya Nadella's book tour, there was a loud drumbeat, as I recall about Satya Nadella's belief in a new device category. Since then there have been a few reports, as best I recall, proclaiming Panos Panay's targeted functionality like a digital Moleskin . I could be wrong, but this stuff just takes TIME to get it right and implement! IMHO too much emphasis has been on the "foldable hardware" and too little on the "new functionality and productivity" of this new category of device. I also read - would be terrific if true - that Microsoft will produce both a "reference design" for OEMs like HP, Dell, Lenovo, etc. as well a Microsoft Surface branded variant. An total PC ecosystem supported "new device category" would provide the best chance of success! Microsoft has a great example of how they first championed the 2-in-1 category that now is producing some absolutely amazing devices - not just the Surface Pro, Surface Go, etc. However, for this new category of "Pocketable PC", and to get the inherent long battery life and telephony capabilities of the ARM architecture, there is and must be a ramp up of a lot of changes to the PC is Intel. Intel, for all of there resources and talent, just can't get to 10 nm technology - after many years of effort - and have FAILED (so far) with a mobile SoC. My conclusion is that too much of the Andromeda story is about "folding screen hardware and Cshell" and NOT enough about the incredible amount of technological change required to create this new device category. Personally, I remain patient but sure wish that the whole Andromeda story could be told from a NEW device category perspective … rather than another Microsoft attempt to TRY for perhaps the 5th time to sell against the smartphone market of iPhones and Androids devices. Oh yes, as another example, my company is very excited about the Microsoft HoloLens and the whole AR/VR mixed reality efforts. We have tracked, read, evaluated the HoloLens for over 18 months now but have not purchased any. Like Panos Panay, the father of the HoloLens is another genius by the name of Alex Kipman. Microsoft has been working on the HoloLens 2.0 for years now - you think waiting for the Andromeda has been a long time coming - but at both Microsoft Build 2018 in May and Microsoft Inspire in July, there was an extensive demo as part of Satya Nadella's keynote. Recently, Microsoft has added HoloLens "demo units" to our local Microsoft stores and I finally went to try it out. What I found was, yes the "Field of View" was quite limiting at the current 35 degrees … but, WOW could I immediately see the possibilities of this "new category of device". In summary, the whole Andromeda "new device category" is so disruptive and innovative that we just must be patient. Like a big jigsaw puzzle, I can now clearly see how Andromeda dovetails into the whole Satya Nadella "vision" that he has been consistently talking about. Andromeda is a powerful "business productivity device" and NOT a smartphone. When Satya Nadella starts adding Andromeda to his "keynotes" - a big IGNITE 208 coming on September 24-28 in Orlando, Fla - THEN we will know more.
  • How is a folding, dual screen device new or disruptive? We already have them. The form factor kinda sucks and is pointless. Have you used an Axon M? I don't think refining the design will fix it's issues.
  • A business oriented Windows 10 device that you can also do all the things a smartphone can do including putting it in your pocket. If you are not looking at this from a business perspective, you are blind.
  • I'm failing to see the 'new' information here.
  • Yes, what is new??!! The new info should be in a different color text....
  • Near field Holographic images projected from Skype.
    If it's always on, a smoke detector.
    Water & drop resistant.
    A pen that has a camera, speaker and can act as a stand alone phone, using Cortana, or a watch.
    But more realistically, a device....now.
  • We know it's been delayed and possibly cancelled; why continue to talk about something that's at the moment about as rare as the mystical "unicorn". News must be slow!
  • People asked us to update this article with info about the delay, so I did. I also added a couple of additional bits of info regarding the OS. Please skip the article next time you see it and decide that "news must be slow!"
  • Too many people here have Social Media ******** Disease. All too common, all too useless. Thanks for ignoring them and keeping up the good work, Zac.
  • I pray that it has a good camera too. I use my phone's camera more than any other app/feature/anything. Sending photos through WhatsApp or posting them on Instagram/facebook/twitter is a must nowadays. Can't wait to see Andromeda!
  • Even if it nothing more than the 950XL 20mp camera, it will be awesome!! Apple is just catching up to it. I'm sure it will be even better.
  • Would you just LET THIS THING DIE? Stick a fork in it. Once the horse is dead you DISMOUNT.
  • It's not dead. Please, try to keep up. I even mention this in the article above, and in more detail in this article https://www.windowscentral.com/whats-going-microsofts-surface-andromeda-device
  • What happens to it when Galaxy X is released?
  • Shows how much you know.
  • This is Clickbait for something that doesn't even exist. I am tired of waiting for some excitement from Microsoft. Andromeda, again. Yawn. Wasn't Panos supposed to be the Saviour of This Project? A Device with no purpose and no clear added value. Awesome.
  • Just because you see no purpose doesn't mean it doesn't have purpose. It has an insane array of usecases.
  • :)) More delusional news about this junk device that no one will ever buy.
  • I will and many others will do so the presumption of no one will buy the andromeda device is profoundly naive.
  • Sales will be minimal for a new Microsoft phone (don't kid yourself, it is a phone). Relative to other phones, no one will buy it. The ecosystem is non-existent and the price is likely to be exuberant. I wouldn't be surprised if it nearly $1500. Throw in the Galaxy X launching first, it will have no chance.
  • Wrong, it will be a Windows pocketable tablet that has telephony. The Windows ecosystem is non-existent. It will be a business device. Business (Windows) has always been a driver into the personal market. With this device, MS can finally do it.
  • Like back when I knew before the editors of this website that andromeda was a thing, and what it was roughly (no credit to me, thanks to that twitter user who spotted the code), I'm just going to float this out there. Samsung and Microsoft co-own the patent to a flexbile graphene based screen technology that is years, probably a decade off affordable manufacture. They made a serious investment developing it, and it's pretty much a given that will be a popular future form factor of mobile device. This product DOES NOT NEED TO BE SUCCESSFUL. It can run at a loss. It doesn't need to change the world. There are two purposes to this device. 1) It needs is a small number of pilot users ala hololens, and some ethusiastic hobbyist developers. The entire point of this product is to slowly wedge it's way into a niche market, big enough to sustain ongoing development of the app system, and the OS. It doesn't need to even turn a profit. No, really, it doesn't. It needs to generate enough interest to justify a version 2. Not commercially, but in terms of a niche userbase. 2) It's part of microsoft's attempt to 'scale windows outside of the conventional desktop', and generate interest in UWP, different input methods, and output methods. In that it sits along side mixed reality, hololens, the hub, the surface studio etc. Likewise for this, it doesn't need to make a profit, change the world, or impress anyone outside of a small niche userbase that can sustain some level of development. Ideally, this group would be those with enough money to afford the first graphene based devices - enterprise, and creatives. People like illustrators, musicians, movie editors, CEO's, consultants etc. Not because that's who the foldable screen will always be used by, but because when the ecosystem is limited, the applications sometimes in house, and the product expensive, these are the only people that will buy. I'll also add something that you missed - that codes showed the OS is screen angle context sensitive - to both screens. Now that at least means that not only will the OS scale and adapt to single or dual screen, but it will also adapt to tent mode, laptop mode and other physical configurations automatically. The hinge will operate as a kind of "gesture" to summon various UI (beyond that of single or dual screen). Like if you place one screen on a desk, and the other up likely it will summon a touch keyboard. It's quite likely these will be configurable.
  • What does that do that you cannot do with any number of modern phones? How is it going to differentiate? Folding isn't going to be enough. Galaxy X is going to make Andromeda's folding look primitive.
  • Any number of other modern phones are NOT Windows.
  • Andromeda = the HoloLens "alpha" of foldable tablets. It's not intended to be a market success. It's intended to be a "start", as we eventually inevitably move towards graphene flexible screens in about a decade or more. It's like building the first touch screen smartphones with an app system, before the iPhone is released. It's attempting to be ahead. It's NOT an attempt to make money, or the change the world.
  • Samsung is going to have a folding screen early next year. That will be a tablet. Dual smartphone screens doesn't make a tablet. Axon M isn't a tablet.
  • The fold is not the essential feature. The OS is, business integration is.
  • it has to be able to dock a stylus
  • I have to say nice write-up.
  • Windows Central, I'm never a fan of republishing old articles and dressing them up as new. Please just write a new article if there's something new to say. Otherwise, most of this is old news.
  • I was going to write the same thing, this is a rehash of articles on WC. Either the writer is bored, or he knows something about a announcement that we don't. I have money on the former.
  • My biggest concerns? Will MrMobile's review be favorable and will it stand up to the JerryRigEverything durability test. :D
    In all seriousness, I can't wait to see how this is fleshed out. I truly hope that this device will be able to avoid the first-device-of-its-kind issues. I want this to be successful. I'm rather tired of only having 2 OS choices for my pocetable telephony devices.
  • What is this device's future if Samsung releases a true folding screen early next year as rumoured? It will be very tough to compete with a Galaxy X. Dual screens will look archaic next to a true folding screen. Any chance this isn't going to be cancelled when Samsung beats them to the punch with a far superior device?
  • The fact that it will be a business device that Android and IOS cannot be is the device's future.
  • Was this not cancelled? I think I would like a Google Pixel 3 instead. I mean with all the many reboots of Win phones I kind of had enough. I still look at my Lumia 950 XL win 10 mobile with biiiig wet eyes dreaming about it was all an evil nightmare and that we will see Win 10 mobile become big and that it was not doomed to be end of support in December 2019 which made all the many app devs run away....
  • Still using and loving my 950XL. Have another in the box just in case. They will continue to be useful beyond 12/19 if the new device is not ready.
    The new device will be a business machine, which is the MS niche (niche is too small a word). Business has always driven the personal use world. Will again.
  • Yeah I do actually still use my Lumia 950 XL as the main phone as well. Can't seem to retire it. It is just too awesome.
  • I agree with many of Drael646464's comments. I have two questions. 1) When in duel screen mode, will it support opening multiple instances of the same app provided that app supports multiple instances? I can see the usefulness of opening two Word documents side-by-side. Windows 10 Mobile will only allow you to have a single instance of an app, which makes sense for a little phone with one little screen. But Andromeda will have duel screens, so I don't see the point of limiting only one instance of apps. 2) When in Continuum mode hooked up to a dock, will it support two full size monitors? Or will you be limited to only one full size monitor? Oh and I guess I have a third question. 3) Will UWP apps that currently target PC form factor be runnable on Andromeda with doing nothing more than the Store cross-compiling and deploying ARM exe and dlls?
  • My feeling is that it only needs to be taken up by just ONE niche market - just one area where people like it. Could be creative. Could be media, notetakers, meeting holders. Could be salesmen. Could be anything - but it only needs that in order to have the testbed it's intended to create to sustain a product until the arrival of graphene screens. So what it needs is - a small set of inhouse, very polished software, and a partnership with one other entity - adobe would be EXCELLENT, but also someone involved in accounting might be great. And that's what I hope they are working on, a core set of software that is enough to get the ball rolling for that small set of niche consumers. For myself? I may not actually care. I'm thinking about getting some kind of feature phone and smartwatch combination on my next phone, if that's possible. Something with qwerty would be ideal. KaiOS now does google maps, facebook, all that. I'd only really miss the camera. But I could use the simplicity, and true smartwatches are taking too long to arrive. Would I enjoy a foldable windows device? Yeah, I think I would and if it was good enough, i'd go for it, but I'm thinking personally I'd prefer something like a surface go with a few iteration advancements. Small enough for a bag. I just don't travel enough right now to justify a folding device, especially at that price. Certainly if I was a creative, or in that part of business, or a wealthy individual who commuted a lot - absolutely. But I'm more likely to use a tablet at a mates place, or on my coffee table, so folding isn't a lot of an advantage for me. I actually already hate carrying around my phone. Big arse fragile glass thing, another weight in the pocket. It's like a ball and chain. But voice hasn't advanced enough to make smartwatches viable, nor has the hardware evolved enough that it can replicate phones without being bulky and slow. I really do only run about 6 apps most of the time, TBH, smartphones seem wasted on 95percent of the population - your running this high end processor, chewing up battery, just so you can run essentially what are web pages that a feature phone with 256mb of ram could run. Honestly, whole thing seems weird to me - if it can't run proper programs like a PC, and people generally don't use power applications - why not make a lighter version, on a simpler peice of hardware. The thing is, hobbyists are not enough to anchor an "alpha" product like this, so it can get it's development secured over time. You need some niche market - like the mac had, like the HoloLens has, like cellphone originally had. And this, not profitability, nor market success, not changing the world - this is all the device needs to serve its purpose - one niche market that finds use in it, takes it up, and provides a platform to continue slowly expanding from, and improving the development from. Sales might be something to consider as a market. Accounting programs and sales and inventory programs. Something like this would be far better than an iPhone or ipad, for lugging around as a small business owner, or during inventory checks, or door to door sales pitches. People might think that boring, but it's the boring people you want. People who do micro-video editing on the go. People who do design sketches on the go. People who take minutes in meetings. People who do their accountancy by photographing receipts. These are the sorts of people you can create enough value for, that they will reliably buy a 1,000 dollar device with a slightly subpar consumer ecosystem (I mean, windows store is still actually fine for most users, but the glitter and glam isn't there because apple has more quality apps, and google has a touch more with a store padded with dross)
  • If this device does not support Win32 apps out of the box its DOA. Of course if Microsoft is stupid enough it will restrict CoreOS to Store only.
  • I just thought about this, if the Andromeda is in a laptop position where the lower section is a keyboard, they should have a key on a corner that well temporarily replace the keyboard with a trackpad complete with gestures.
  • Another delusional article about this junk useless mythical device...with no apps.
  • Can't wait to see what can be done. This is all very exciting!
  • Hi all with all due respect to those who are sceptical, I'm not quite they are seeing what a cellular or foldable tablet or fully functional Pocket PC can or will mean - if done well as a final (except for a surface based wristwatch) piece of hardware or software. Having the same ecosystem across all computers and devices is very attractive to many, many people. Currently many people have PCs (more than 1.5 billion of them globally) for their main computing productivity device or computer then either an Android or Apple mobile (or cellular) phone or tablet. The market is dominated by Apple (iOS) and Google et al (Android devices) that have the long standing single slab of glass type of mobile devices but a maximum of 6" screens are not big enough for a lot of important productivity and life management tasks. For the longest time these devices have been relatively mediocre in terms of productivity and connectivity within a single ecosystem. MS wants to change this, in the same way that they have with other Surface branded devices. Most recently the Surface Go is an example of a lower cost solution within the smaller tablets too. For all intents and purposes MS is poised to do that again. MS builds platforms such as Windows, Office 365, Azure and other applications and services. It makes a lot of sense for them to build high quality (Surface) hardware to showcase the functionality of Andromeda as an evolutionary even revolutionary version of Windows 10 and other platforms and services in the MS portfolio. Whether or not this will happen is yet to be seen but I am confident that at least 20, 000+ (that are interested in such a device) people are interested in a pocketable PC and have signed a petition on change.org to this end...
  • I haven't been following this much lately because it just hard to wait patiently while some people just badmouth the efforts and optimism that many of us have. I am starting to realize why Microsoft hesitates to call this a Smart-Phone, because most "Smart Phone Users" don't really care about being able to use their Phone like a computer, they just want social media, games, streaming video and to order their Starbucks Coffee. But for those of us who want more, like stylus input, docking with a keyboard and mouse as well as a larger touchscreen display for bigger projects, study and research. I don't care what they want to categorize it as, just as long as I can get it. A single device that can handle all of this and be portable for mobile mounting as well as docking to a permanent immobile station when you get home or to the office. That's what we have been waiting for since the beginning in the 80's.
    Microsoft I hope you are listening, you have one shot at this, do not cut corners here, do not hold back from giving this build everything it requires. You may have to make some sacrifices AT FIRST to get your foot back in the door. Also do not pay any attention to Nay Sayers and iFanboys posing as Customers. You need to make this work right and the profits will come again, but for now you are paying the price for trying to compromise and trying to play the iGame, but eventually you will find your true customers, those who want to keep control of their systems, never wanted that anyway. Just be Microsoft and make your own molds, push ahead and forget the metered release of technology that others are using to maximize profits. It's time to pull out the stops and utilize all your R&D that we all know you have held in reserve and put it into a practical powerful device.
  • I am interested in the 'folded' phablet phone format for other reason. I have moved to Asia where I need to teach and use short clips video and a lot of OneNote. That's why I bought at the time an iPhone 7+. I did not want to carry a phone and a tablet. And my Surface is too big to carry around for my purpose. However, the sound on the iPhone is not loud enough (yes I have a Bluetooth speaker but that means yet another device to carry around) and the screen not quite big enough. A phablet with Pen input would be ideal for my purpose and I would readily buy something like that. As some comments pointed out, if it was powerful enough to dock at home and become my home PC so much the better. However, whatever Andromeda is; like all new product category it will have to go through a few iterations in order to smooth out the rough edges. Early adopters might be disappointed by the glitches which by version 3 or 4 should be perfected. (a la Surface template). Give it 4-5 years
  • What guarantees will microsoft offer that they will not abandon their uses yet again making their devices useless? I still own a Lumia 950, useless device since MS stabbed me in the back and stopped supporting it. That is fraud! I want my money back or at the very least get a Surface Andromeda for free.