Windows Phone sales drop slightly across markets during summer 2014 Lumia lull

New stats from Kantar WorldPanel reveal that Windows Phone sales have seen a slight decline for the three months to September 2014.

The Kantar numbers, while not dramatic, reflect two aspects of the current Windows Phone ecosystem: lack of new phones and a substantial portfolio from the competition, including new iPhones.

United States

According to Kantar, sales in the US for Windows Phone has dropped from 4.7 percent in August to a lower 4.3 percent in September. Likewise, going back one year and the sales are 4.6 percent in 2013 compared to the slightly lower 4.3 percent last month.

Overall, sales of Windows Phone are holding steadily as a relative percentage of overall smartphone purchases. That is the good news, if you were to look for the positive side. The negative is obvious: Windows Phone is still failing to break past any significant sales barriers in the US.

Europe

Heading to Europe and the 'big five', which includes UK, Germany, France, Italy, and Spain and Windows Phone is also holding steady at around 9 percent of overall smartphone sales. This number has dropped slightly from one year ago (9.4 percent versus 9.2).

Drops in Windows Phone purchases occurred in four of the 'big five' European countries with Italy being the exception. There, Windows Phone sales increased from 13.7 percent in September 2013 to 15.2 percent last month, well ahead of iOS, which stands at just 10.4 percent of smartphone purchases in that country.

iPhone growing but declining as a percent of sales

Indeed, perhaps the bigger story is how iPhone sales are also holding steady in Europe, with Windows Phone often within striking distance in overtaking Cupertino. It is only in Japan and the United States where the iPhone is above 30 percent, well out of the European range of 15 percent. However, for Japan and the US, both countries are seeing a decline in iPhone sales (47.2 to 31.3 percent for Japan; 35.9 to 32.6 percent, year-over-year in the US), even as the market grows as a whole.

Additionally, the full-impact of the new iPhone 6 and 6 Plus is not realized in these numbers as we head into the holiday season.

Analysis

It is worth noting that sales of the Lumia 730, Lumia 735, and Lumia 830 are not reflected in this latest batch of numbers from Kantar. Those phones were not made available until the very end of September, with a launch in the US market not set until next week for the Lumia 830. It is clearly too early to tell if those phones will make any impact. Although, due to their positive reviews and affordable price points, they certainly stand a chance.

Lumia phones, now under the auspices of Microsoft, are still in a state of flux. The Lumia 930 is the only flagship Windows Phone for 2014 and reception to that device has been soft, to say the least. Low-cost phones like the Lumia 530 and Lumia 630/635 are also having a sustaining but limited effect on overall sales for Microsoft.

With no releases from major partners like HTC or Samsung in Europe for all of 2014, the burden for Windows Phone sales falls onto the Lumia. The problem is there has not been a perceived 'hit' for the Lumia line this year to cause a stir in mass adoption of Windows Phone.

Will the Lumia 73x and Lumia 830 series change any of that? The good news there is reviews so far have been very bullish, which we hope is reflected in future sales. Under Microsoft, the Lumia 73x and Lumia 830 have seen a fast turnaround from announcement to direct channel sales and stock at retailers. This quickness to market is unlike previous Lumia releases which often spanned months, losing the luster of 'new' by the time they were available in shops.

Lack of a flagship Windows Phone

However, despite the positive reaction to the new Lumias, Microsoft still needs a 'wow' device to woo the tech media and new potential customers. That phone was supposed to be 'McLaren' (aka 'Goldfinger') but as we reported back in July, the device was cancelled in its last stages of development. Clearly, that decision was not ideal, although we have to assume Microsoft had valid reasons for canning their one Lumia flagship going into the holiday season.

The other lingering concern is Windows 10. The new converged OS is set to debut in mid-2015 with likely hardware announcements in late April during the Build conference. A new, united OS with universal apps is a tantalizing launch-partner for new, high-end hardware. Nonetheless, in terms of marketing, that is a lifetime away.

Windows Phones, especially those with the latest Snapdragon chipsets, are likely to get the Windows 10 upgrade. So the question for Microsoft is should they launch something in early 2015 or go all out with a Windows 10 OS and hardware co-launch? If they were to release a high-end phone too early in 2015, Microsoft could blow their wad for an impactful OS launch by mid-year. Releasing two 'flagship' Lumias within six months of each other could anger early-adopters (just look back at the Lumia 925 announcement).

Microsoft has some tough choices ahead. The rest of 2014 and early 2015 appear to be a transition phase as the Lumia team's full integration into Microsoft results in the first "pure" Microsoft Lumia device. This true Microsoft Lumia is about as close as we will get to a fabled 'Surface Phone', for what it is worth. Likewise, for the OS, which is on the cusp of an awe-inspiring unification with significant potential to increase sales. The problem for Microsoft is most of that is still months away from becoming a reality.

There may be some respite ahead as early next week AT&T and Microsoft will announce the Lumia 830 and HTC One for Windows. According to our sources those phones go on sale just four days later for Friday, November 7.

Source: Kantar WorldPanel; via TechCrunch

Daniel Rubino is the Editor-in-chief of Windows Central, head reviewer, podcast co-host, and analyst. He has been covering Microsoft since 2007 when this site was called WMExperts (and later Windows Phone Central). His interests include Windows, laptops, next-gen computing, and for some reason, watches. Before all this tech stuff, he worked on a Ph.D. in linguistics, watched people sleep (for medical purposes!), and ran the projectors at movie theaters because it was fun.

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264 Comments

This is what happens when you have no flagship decent flagship and the overall flagships are the retired icon and the five months later android rehash HTC one.
Edit: There needs to be a flagship on all the carriers(sigh, if it is the one then so be it as well as there needs to be a mid range and low end as well).
It's getting to the point where idk what to think anymore and I'm growing restless with this lack of what appears to be poor choices in regards to selling the phone. I don't even like the one but there is no point in that phone being nearly 3 months older and finally getting a release on att as if that is going to help anything especially since Verizon sucks. The momentum and excitement for that phone has quieted down vs it's original release.
Hopefully it and the 830 can do some good.
Agreed, give me an 838 or 938 for Verizon and take my money...
Can't deal with WP anymore... The new Sony Z3v Verizon just got looks tasty though.
Wow! Android sales just never drop. WP is getting so outdated. Time to switch.
Flip mate I felt like that to. So I preordered it , got it. After a week I was fed up with it and remembered why I moved away from android to start with. So I'm back with my 930 again bit really ready for a phablet. Waiting till 1525 comes out
Only reasons I got off Android were A: Google, B: Their mobile browsers sucked compared to IE, C: Was working towards an all MS ecosystem.
Still not happy about Google, browser was still better than Safari, and ditching MS as a viable one solution ecosystem. It's not remotely viable.
Android did do everything I asked of it, however, and OEM's at least maintain their apps. A phone like the Xperia is pretty much the hardware grail of phones. I really don't see that it's missing anything in any category.
Yup.. I myself is also eyeing on ditching out WP for a lil over 2 years of use. Thinking of getting the Xperia Z3 as well as it has everything that I want from a phone.
I ditched the Sonyz3 after 3 weeks . Sold on ebay. Its like a toy. Same as Samsung and apple. . But out of all of them Sony is best. However I decided to take a chance on blackberry passport. Its a real nice . Well built phone with blackberry world, amazon and snap sideload for google play store. . So I'm playing about with it now. The sound is simply amazing on passport, slightly better or as good as htc m8.
So I'm real happy at mo with it. But I was happy with Sony z3 for week also.lol.
I just wish Microsoft would get its finger out and get the new flagships out for xmas
I moved from a very viable os and apps store the iphone to a win 8 930 and guess what, no apps missing, a few games missing but no apps so its completely viable for me.
It's Microsoft, and their total lack of Marketing for WP!.. They rely on the OEM's, and carriers to market WP devices, and it's just not good enough...
..............
MS needs it's own HUGE marketing campaign featuring WP as an OS itself! They can market the Lumia brand aside using just as strong a campaign.... Google has Android specific commercials, and Apple has always taken care of it's business..... MS appears to be doing NOTHING itself to boost market share for WP....
............
New devices will help, but they aren't entirely the awnswer... Nobody will buy them because MS is horrific at creating awareness, and hype around those new devices.... MARKETING is WP's BIGGEST issue, and has always been the ROOT Cause for All of WP's issues that hold it back as a third viable OS... With the 930/Icon, 1520, and 520/521 out during these months that was enough for MS to had increased market share.. Apple won't release another device for a year from now, but they will market the iP6 to death, and do whatever it takes to sell as many possible, before the iP6s gets here... That's because Apple is smart.. Obviously a lot better at being good salesman than MS!
..................
MARKETING MARKETING MARKETING MARKETING❗❗❗
Blame MS everytime until they finally get it right❗
Microsoft has got to get it's partners to build phones and then put them on store shelves for consumers to touch and get a feeling of the os and device. There is no such thing in the US market that you cannot compete simply because players are already there. Toyota proof this.
Exactly! Great point!...
+1000000 You def nailed this one bro.
Lol!... Im sick of the same thing year, after year.. MS makes a totally terrific product, but refuses to market it, leaving it to just rot in the backrooms of stores.. Totally pathetic..
microsoft need to make sure that shops sell their phones, shopes promote their phones when in store as a viable option, They need to release phones on multiple carrieers and not just 1 and they need to get updates to phones through alot quicker than 2 months waiting. Then theyll have a chance, cause the phones ready its quite amazing and fun to use. Its like their tablets, i coulnd find a single tablet in my town in any retailers, thats prety awful marketing. Strasgly there were plenty of ipds and android pads lol. ps microsoft your the 3rd eco system far behind the 2nd so includ a sd slot ans min 128g on your phone and watch them sell like hotcakes, Glance on a oled like the 930 would be cool if its possible.
These numbers suck.
Indeed they do!
I agree. For the US, the carrier exclusives have been the absolute worst idea ever. Originally ATT had the exclusive which effectively excluded all customers from other carriers (congrats Nokia). But, Windows Phone did build up a small but faithful following with ATT. Then some genius (who has hopefully been fired) decided to give the next "flagship" phone as an exclusive to Verizon effectively excluding nearly ALL of the existing Windows Phone customers. Idiots!
If Microsoft agrees to another carrier exclusive, then somebody else needs to get fired and a top level exec needs to get put on the spot in a public forum and asked to justify the idiotic decision. I'm sure any fan of WP could shoot holes in whatever "reason" is given when compared to "reality".
Problem is they don't seem to care anymore. If Microsoft had got off their butts and pushed the OS years ago, pushed its unique qualities they could have built up a larger user base but they sat on their hands and now are sucking up to apple and google. No one else to blame but themselves.
Thank you❗ You are exactly right❗ It's because of MS's total lack of marketing WP, lack if sense of urgency, and excitement for their own platform...
................
WP will never break 10% market share if it is never marketed properly... Blame MS for ALL of WP's issues.. Blaming other OEM's, carriers, consumers, and store associates, is a waste of time... How can we expect them to care before we expect for MS to care❓
.............
Go to USERVOICE and demand that MS get serious about marketing❗ Go on your device in settings, and complain about marketing in feedback! Give MS bad reviews on all of their apps for horribly, lazy marketing efforts!... Whatever it takes for them to understand that we need to see WP commercial's everywhere, all the time, and all day long... We need to see WP posters all over the mall. We need to see WP featured on the sides of busses, at sporting events, taking up permanent advertising space on billboards.... ALL carriers need to have a lineup of no less than 4 devices! Airports, malls, arenas, park..... I'll be back.
Agreed. Depressing.
I have a friend who works at Microsoft P.R. And she told me that a friend of hers who works in the states told her that the Nokia made flagship phone was cancelled cause of its components were gonna be outdated when it arrived. I believe her cause she's the 1 who told me about the surface and the 920 months before rumors started appearing.
Maybe you misunderstood because that is so false...
Those were her words, anyways I dont doubt it Nokia was probably gonna use a snapdragon 801 and Microsoft wanted something higher.
I can believe that!!.. But, as we're finishing the spec race I don't think that would've been as big a issue in consumers eyes... After all, it's never stopped them from buying iPhones❗❗
yeh for iphone users or android id agree, but when you mention a windows phone like the 930 runing win 8.1, , it doesnt mater that it is super smooth, it doesnt mater that batery life is exellent or that it has prety much one of the best screens on the market, because youll still get all the apple and android people saying wow they are using last years snapdragon 800, they are crap they are always behind. Truth is people cant open their eyes and try new things so they slat it. compared to my 5 years on all the iphones the 930 8.1 win is my favorite phone and experience. I loved my iphone, i loves siri, now i have cortana and im very happy cause she just works like 90% of the time even outside, siri didnt outside.
I suspect neither Nokia nor Microsoft wanted carrier exclusive deals - but that is what you get when you have a weak bargaining position. Don't forget that when it was the newcomer the iPhone was also a carrier exclusive in the US. The difference was that Apple was able to build it into a desirable brand and wrest control from the carriers.
Back before the iPhone was release; Windows Mobile had 40% of the smartphone market in the U.S. Now it close to the opposite with Apple approaching 40% and WP8 having 4%!
They don't need to keep releasing phones, they just need their phone available across all carriers... Even if they have to sell them straight out their own Microsoft Store.
They do need to keep releasing phones to keep capturing customers
You're both right.. They need to hit WP from every angle!! And, hit it as hard as humanly possible... If you're at the mall taking a shit then their should be WP ads right inside the stall!.. Lol!
It's a lot of the same problems we've been complaining about for four years: Carrier exclusives
Salespeople actively push customers away from WP
Lack of flagship
App gap It's amazing that Windows Phone is still around at all. Does Microsoft even want it to succeed?
Judging by the state of their media handling both desktop and on WP... Nope, they don't give a shit.
Lol! You might be right... I hope they are reading this!
And, all of those issues can be solved with proper Marketing!! Im serious❗ We can't say proper marketing isn't the root cause until we see MS do it right, and it still doesn't work❗❗
............
Every opportunity we get, and this is a good one, we should be slamming MS for not properly MARKETING WP for years... Then maybe they will start doing it right.. One good thing is that they do listen, and are open minded... They just have to be told what to do for some reason.... It's our job as WP fans, because fans of other platforms don't have to,, to tell MS how to manage WP... Now, that the hardware is tight, the features are there,,, we need to insist that they create massive amounts of awareness, and hype, around WP... Apple now has a commercial featuring OIS, and their six lenses in blown up veiw... Microkia has never bragged about this feature in years, and Apple makes the public believe they invented it in weeks... That's good marketing, and awareness, on Apples part, and I have to give Apple a hand for once again bitch slapping MS in the face.... At what point is MS going to get tired of just sitting in the corner and loosing to Google, and Apple, as far as mobile is concerned?.... Why won't they show what WP has, and what it does, on a scale at least as big as it's competitors do? I can't believe it's been four years, and I'm still sitting here asking the same questions... It's like they are intentionally making WP fail... There is no excuse for MS to not show gains, but instead they are showing losses.... This is unacceptable, and we should demand more from MS.
i totally agree, ever since win 8 released on desktop almost every pr move has been a negative from microsoft. From stoping suport on win 7 phone(big mistake) to insisting you had to be online for a xboxone to work but its for a good reason, so you can play for a max of 1 hour at a friends lol. But you can always buy a 360 instead cause you dont have to be online there lol. I think 2013-2014 will be used in universitys as a prime example of how not to market you product the microsoft way. I really hope they sort it cause their phone is awsome.
I couldn't agree more. My L920 contract is up, and not a flagship insight until next year. I could get a 1520, but I'd loose QI. I could get a 1020, but I doubt that will get W10. It's not worth getting the 830. So I'm stuck, and might end up dropping WP if my phone dies.
theyve already said all windows 8 phones will get windows 10. My old iphone 4s got 8.1 even though it made it unusable, it still got it lol and i couldnt reverse it.
I do think a lot of this is due to lack of Lumia flagships. I never expected the HTC phone to be a particularly good seller. Most people prefer Lumias when it comes to Windows.
Yeah I try and tell people that most people want Lumia windows over others and with there being no compelling Lumia releases and within the us, the 735 being delayed for Verizon, I wonder will q4 be worse. HTC never was going to be anything substantial or interesting when it comes to sales but it may at least do decent for a windows phone.
"I wonder will q4 be worse" With new iPhones, Notes, and a Nexus I suspect the it will be.
Agree, lack of flagships must affect sales. Try telling a Note 4 or iPhone 6 fan to move to WP! Yes WP has a great os but with lack of apps AND lack of, as Mr Rubino says, a wow flagship, why move? The os is becoming too Android like i.e. OneDrive. The hubs have gone and it seems from comments on this site that Microsoft apps work better on other os's. I'm still fully Surface and Lumia, but watch in wonder as Microsoft don't produce the killer flagship needed.
If ATT releases the HTC One M8 Eye for Windows next week, I might bite. But HTC killed my desire for the HTC One M8 with the release of the Android M8 Eye. I then realized that the HTC Windows Phone version was always going to be behind the latest Android version. Eh, I lose interest. I would do better with a HTC 8X...at least I would have a 8mp camera, wireless charging, and a dedicate camera button.
Why are they giving Verizon exclusives for ANYTHING?!? When has Verizon ever shown any sincere interest in Windows Phone?!? Microsoft wasted the Icon on Verizon. And now they've wasted the M8 on Verizon. How many flagships do they have to sacrifice to the big red monster?
I would love to see HTC succeed, but when you are offering hand-me-downs as your flagship, it's not very compelling. Here is what potential customers are getting "you can get a fancy new iPhone 6, Note 4, or (fill in the blank for an Android flagship), or you can come over to Windows phone and get Bobby's hand-me-down HTC or a Lumia 'flagship' phone that is missing features of its lower tiered brothers". Gee, it's such a compelling statement, I wonder why more people aren't flocking to WP? /s
HTC, I'm glad to see you in the WP scene again, but if you are not going to release a WP phone at the same time as your Android phone, but rather months and months later, then make it better than the old phone and name it differently. I would prefer you release your flagships on both platforms at the same time though... Then it still has buzz and draw.
Exactly what I've told people. But if you mention the fact it is a hand me down they get all defensive.
iPhone 6/+ is very old technology in terms of iOS and partly the hardware, too.
Comparison to Android is ok - just remember LAG & power eating batteries
Maybe 5.x is better in power...?
"Lumia lull". Somehow that made me grin.
Alliteration FTW ;)
Me too!! Great wording and as usual clever writing. Looking forward to what is next.
"blow their wad" made me chuckle.
Seems slower
Seems smaller
only seems...
Need another high end phone with looks of either the 925 or 830 with great cam, replaceable battery and SD slot
I agree on the SD card. I can't believe that most low tiered phones have a slot now, but not the "flagship" 930. Huh?
So many of us have been saying THIS for two years now and Microsoft/Nokia still has yet to listen. Hmm... no wonder they're still under 5%. When you keep ignoring your most devoted fans, eventually they move on to something else.
a 930 with sd and glance would do me
What's Microsoft Italy's secret?
Duh, my last name is Rubino :P (Honestly, no idea. Perhaps marketing. There is also a good fan site (WindowsBlogItalia). Maybe it's the fashion aspect.)
Microsoft partnered with Fiat 10 years ago to integrate in their cars infotainment systems optimized for Windows Mobile, including a Windows button on the steering wheel. That may have helped.
More info here: http://news.microsoft.com/2004/07/15/fiat-auto-and-microsoft-team-up-for....
Ahhhhhh, so you admit that Marketing for WP is lacking, and is the cause of low market share?
.............
Nist! Look... Didn't I just say this yesterday? Remember, I said that WP was going to show a loss across the board.
Would you mind changing your name to "Smith" so Windows Phone might finally get some love in the US? lol
Huge discounts probably, i bought 3 WP devices in Mediaworld and i'm from Croatia and just happend to be there. They were selling 925 for 279 euros, 920s for 179, some really funny prices and that was beginning of the year all the way through summer.
I'm Italian, I can't speak for everyone in my country of course, but for me one of the biggest selling points WP has over the competition is the styling. Android's UI looks terrible, especially on Samsungs and iOS has never been particularly attractive to me, while Lumias have a great style, minimal, clear and simple. No chlidish icons, no overcomplicated and dull menus. Then there is the fact that in Italy Nokia was, and to a certain extent still is, a synonym for quality phones. Since wp8 sales have grown also because of good devices like the 920, which was quite innovative back at its launch and perceived as a real flagship unlike the 930. Oh, and in Italy Lumias are on every carrier, so it's way easier to get them.
it's the carrier thing...
ive read so many stories about no windows phones on show or sales assistents saying bad things, thats a big issue. And the carrier
Spot on!
We love WP. Microsoft Italia is doing a really great job on the whole territory of our country (especially in the business sector and universities)
Rubbish. I purchased a 1320, 930 and 735 is on order to be delivered this Friday. Who hasn't been buying recently? Sam??
So three phones out of how many? How does your anecdote of a drop in the bucket (compared to millions) make this rubbish?
Ian, meet Humor and Sarcasm. You three get to know eachother, then you can come back to the Internets. It'll be a whole new experience.
Oh, that's right... It's hard to convey sarcasm in plain text. It's almost like there should be a better way to convey it across the "Internets," as you call it. /s?
And Apple can keep releasing the same 2 models. Silliness. I love my 930 and consider it a flagship. Apple swore they were going to put out affordable phones and we wound up with the 5c, waste of time. Those of you concerned about this and planning to jump ship. You are part of the problem. Ding your carriers for not giving you choices. Adding up the usual suspects here I can see the next.5% drop in market share. So go grab those Androids, and leave those of us supporting the MS ecosystem to our devices.
Right, Windows Phone definitely needs one or more flagship devices. Release the HTC One globally! And I hope the 1030 and 1530 aren't far...
I'm not going to upgrade until I'm sure my next phone will run 10 with no issues. Same thing happened when 7 expired and we found out that new hardware was needed for 8.
Yup. Bought the Lumia 900... then WP8 came out. Bought the Icon, thinking with the most high end specs of all WP phones, it would be early to get the new WP8.1... still hasn't seen an update. I'm not doing that again...
not the same thing, but I don't blame you much....
all win 8m phones are gona get win 10 microsoft have already confirmed it.
And, Android keeps on increasing.
That slight change is dramatic for WP ones again proves people just don't like the tile OS . Hope W10 changes this trend so we can get app developers and company giving us updateds on a regular basis
Well, remember, these are sales, not market share numbers. They change greatly each month, often depending on new device releases.
Like we aren't getting updates in a regular basis? I've never seen so many updates in a year, not even when Android was maturing. Hoping Windows 10 solves all the minor gaps there is in this great OS.
Or no apps?
The tiles are what make windows phone different. If they take away the tiles its just another phone
People like the tiles. People like Windows Phone. But they're not in stores, and have no mindshare due to lack of apps. I think it's as simple as that.
Yes, lets get the start menu back like in Windows Mobile 5!
I would trade the long, vertical list of apps available in WP with the Honeycomb structure I had in in WM.
Not even. Bad idea. Using the alphabetized list and search is so much nicer. I do wish the WP task list were a bit more like Android.
plse dont i beg you
As was said already these are not market share stats.... And this stats change depending if tere is new devices or not... But Imagine someone like me... That likes WP and own an Lumia 920, I'm very happy with my phone it's working so damm well... Why buy a new one? So far recieved all the OS updates (that's what's important to me) Why buy another device... Even though I thought in trade mine for a L930 I rather wait for new Lumias to show up when the Windows 10 comes... If my phone does not get upgraded well... It will replace my Almost DEAD Samsung Galaxy Ace (Secondary phone) and then I will get a new High End Phone with Windows 10 I think I'm not the only one thinking like this... But yes... There is a lack of flashship devices... In portugal the L920 was nowhere to be found neither locked or unlocked... mine came from France
Most UK carriers have Lumia models but not the wanted color and too long after launch. I got my 1520 from Hong Kong. The root cause has been stated many times already... It's the carriers. MS could spend billions on marketing, but if the carriers don't carry them, people can't act on the marketing to obtain one. This was exactly the same issue I saw with Surface.. There were quite a lot of ads on TV, but was only available in one retail store (John Lewis). MS is not completely off the hook though, they seem not to have grasped how this channel works for consumer electronics despite being very successful with Xbox. They probably need to hire a new guru who understands this channel and they need to learn how to execute hardware launch across many markets simultaneously (or as close as can be).. And they need to do this soon.
there is a few things it needs to improve like being able to chose the size of a photo your sending through email, or changing alarm default permenantly, 8.1 dopes alot of things right especialy the very hard stuff like cortana, but some of the small obvious stuff isnt being sorted and to take people away from iphone or android they really need to cover those small things.
lull?
Lull: to cause to sleep or rest ; to cause to relax vigilance Diciontaries are fun.
He thought you misspelled "lol." Damn millennials.
lol, I mean lull :P
How do you spell LOL? Like "What's the number for 911! Quick!"
I can't find "Diciontaries" anywhere :/
Sales should come roaring back for Lumia. MS is working on something....I still want to see MS producing high end phones because high end phones ARE the norm.
Maybe Microsoft should focus on markets where they have have more than 5% market share and grow from there. With a 3% market share the local app availability is practically zero. This is almost impossible to crack. Ms has to come with a bitching phone to break open those markets. With the current products they are not even keeping up with android phones, let alone beat them. By the time they hit the shelves huawei and Samsung have phones in the stores with better hw and software at a lower price. Ms really needs to be more aggressive with the hw and marketing to break open the android market. The windows os is ok for now. But it still needs continuous improvement to catch up to ios and android. We can't afford to wait for windows 10 and do nothing in the meantime.
...which will never happen. There I finished the sentence for you.
Microsoft deserves decrease market share in phones. Look at Xbox and window's and surface over the last 3 years. Now think about how much WP has changed on the surface (( which is all people really care about (((
no idea what your talking about, sounded like blah blah blah.
Cuz they didn't come out with compelling enough phones
Japan hates iPhones apparently. Like, a lot.
At least Windows phone had some growth there as well as Italy.
iPhone has been dominating in Japan, this is just the expected slow-down in anticipation of the iPhone 6. http://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2014/09/25/iphone-6-is-blowing-aw...
They need to release a Microsoft surface phone or Lumia 1530 with stylus support, for office , word , excel , PowerPoint, one note and pop out menu like in the note. Also wireless printing .Microsoft is not in touch with what the consumer wants, windows 10 needs to be more customizable especially for phablets Samsung will keep dominating with android and apple with ios, because Microsoft cannot think outside the box and be innovative. They have all the tools, even an entire gaming division and they still can't deliver. Give me a productive phone that I can also play with.
Breathe brother...-_-
What about India? 730 running crazy here..
Hey Daniel rub. What do you think it would seriously take for WP to crack 10% ? Personal I think weekly like Xbox1 update's.
It's not one thing, but many. Change in tech culture from misfit to coveted; carriers; marketing; compelling hardware; tie in with Windows 10, etc. Hard to pin it on just a single cause.
I agree Daniel. You need a great OS and hardware to market well. The OS has matured a lot lately and looks to be going in an exciting direction with convergence. Hardware is lacking right now, which makes marketing more challenging. Carriers have been an absolute nightmare in the US. The tech culture is going to be a tough one for WP. There won't be many favors given to WP. The tech "journalists" tend to love their Apple products unabashedly and only started giving Android the credit it deserved after it was crushing iOS in worldwide market share.
We need a flagship... 1530 perhaps?
Microsoft should start doing what Google did with the Nexus 6. Make one version of each Lumia device that works on all four US Carriers.
That would be great. Give me a pureview camera of the 830 quality and I'm sold
Android made up 60% of smartphone sales for summer 2014. It has leverage with carriers. Windows Phone at <5% does not have that same kind of advantage. Carriers still want 'unique' when they can get it. When it is 'hot' they take what they can get.
Agreed. This is pure economics. Maybe MS needs to go pure economics... Forget about making a profit for 2-3 years. Give big incentives to the sales people at the store level. Sell all WP at cost. Support developers at all levels with guaranteed profit for 2 years. Release flagships every 6 month...?(Not sure about tis one :) I mean do something out of the ordinary. Make Carriers and (more importantly) sales people happy, coz they are the ones selling the phone. Honestly....... please do SOMETHING Microsoft...... Grrrr.... I am guessing they are planning to co-inside the big push with W10.... I just hope its not too late
I still don't see why that matters, what is stopping Microsoft from building a high end device that is unlocked and selling it in their stores. Let the consumer worry about which carrier they want to use it on.
Really hope it's a major hardware/software Launch like windows phone 8 I have a first batch Lumia 820 I would love get a windows 10 launch device
But somehow MS thought that it didn't need a high-end phone??
When some of my friends ask me what windows phone to buy (in the u.s.), I tell them to wait a bit for a new phone to be announced - maybe a 1030 or 930 (no one I know is on Verizon). But the announcement never comes. I don't want to recommend a 1020 or 920 as they are bound to feel outdated soon.
Q4 (Christmas / holidays) will probably be worse that Q3 without a Lumia flagship. I would love a 1020 replacement.
Well hopefully kids getting new phones for Christmas and whose parents don't want to buy them something expensive will note the low end Lumia line like 530 & 630 and that will help out.
The problem is mom and dad will probably be replacing their 920s with iPhones, Note 4 or Nexus around the same time.
I can't see may 10-12 years old rocking notes and nexus lol. IPhone maybe but Lumia 530/630 are likely
I'm referring to AT&T customers in the US. Even if they buy 635 for their kids, they themselves have contracts ending if they got 920 at release date. The parents probably would get iPhone, Note or Nexus if they are upgrading to another flagship device on contract.
Pretty sure they needed to get the brand change from Nokia Lumia to Microsoft Lumia before they were ever gonna push a new flagship.
Why waste all of the marketing for a premium product that will have a different brand a month later?
They could've possibly done it quicker, but it might've been too jarring and people would've been all "YOU'RE KILLING THE NOKIA WE LOVE!" Microsoft needed to prove they could keep/improve the pace before the brand change, and now that we have a brand change, we can get a flagship.
(I could be completely wrong and everyone at Microsoft is just jumping around like monkeys with no idea what they're doing , but I might be on the right track.)
What you say is logical. I think this combined with the Windows 10 unification are the reasons for the delay in new (Microsoft) hardware. People thumb and click around this site like they're worried, scared and or angry. I'm not worried at all. I believe in Microsoft and think they'll drop some crazy hot hardware in 2015 with the rollout of Windows 10. I just don't understand why people are so eager to consume new hardware when what they already have is massively powerful let alone fully functional. It's like an addiction to consume just for the sake of consuming. Whatever. I'm still happy with my Lumia 920 as the day I got it.
I fail to understand how a flagship phone will generate more sales? The volume of the sales come from cheap/mid range phones. I know a flagship somewhat creates a halo effect that draws buyers to the brand but still I think its just people not interested. The mid-range models are good phones.
While high end Lumia don't sell more than low end, the lack of hero devices is what is causing a lot of users not to upgrade. Some people are still sticking with their two year old 920 despite the fact that they could get a 930/icon or 1520. Or worse they just move to other platforms which increases their marketshare as well. So a hero/flagship is definitely needed
This. I'm on a 920 and the xperia Z3 looks very compiling...
LOL. It looks what? You might want to check the spelling on that last word. This is a compelling case for the use of auto correct and/or spell checkers.
What Superboy said. My wife and I are on 1020s and my parents are on 920s. There is no Windows phone that is compelling us to buy it right now. So, either we don't buy anything, or we buy an Android or iOS device.
Windows 10 will be available for windows phones using the latest snapdragon chipsets.....so is the Lumia 625 supported (it has qualcom snapdragon s4) ....i am confused please help
Nope.. 625 has snapdragon 400 dual core. Not much we knw abt win 10 supporting old chipset or just latest ones.
Really need new high end hardware, but is there any point with windows 10 right around the corner?
Why do people seem to believe a flagship is going to solve all of these issues? Nobody wants to pay iphone/Galaxy prices for a windows phone. A flagship device will once again flop and do nothing noticeable for overall marketshare. Windows phone has found success in ONE sector of the smartphone buying crowd, the low/mid range buyers. Microsoft needs more devices like the 5xx, 6xx, 7xx, 8xx and 13xx series devices. Until they can fix their app market and catch up to the others, nobody looking at a $600+ phone is going to sacrifice their app portfolio to switch to a Lumia.
While high end Lumia don't sell more than low end, the lack of hero devices is what is causing a lot of users not to upgrade. Some people are still sticking with their two year old 920 despite the fact that they could get a 930/icon or 1520.
Or worse they just move to other platforms which increases their marketshare as well. So a hero/flagship is definitely needed..
Not really, what is actually needed is devices that large amounts of people will buy, the non windows phone enthusiasts. A solid offering of low/mid range devices will do 100x more for advancing and growing the platform that another flop "flagship" would. Microsoft can't beat Samsung and Apple by playing their game, our App Store is a joke
"Hero" devices aren't cheap to make, nor design. Unless there is very clear market research that they will make money indirectly or directly, I don't see the point at the moment. Windows Phone has bigger problems. Right now, as a WP fan, I wouldn't pay flagship prices for a Windows Phone. I lose too much from not being on Android or iOS to pay that much. It's all well and good having super high specs, but if you can't download the apps everyone else is using, why did you pay the premium?
I disagree. Whether appropriate or not, it is the flagship devices that shift perception of an OS. If all WP ever offers is low budget phones, then the perception of WP is that it is "low budget" and inferior to Android and iOS. That won't drive sales because competitors will always have low budget phones to sell too, and if the competing platform is seen as superior, then well... WP won't sell. However, if WP shows it is a serious contender, then perception of WP is stronger which correlates to public mind share through media, which is likely to impact sales.
Take the reception of the Lumia 1020 for instance. I don't believe it sold real well. But, it also was not received well by tech media or journalists because pretty much everything WP released up to that point was arguably inferior to the best Android and iOS devices. It was pegged a niche device that is clunky and runs WP. But, in time, this phone has earned the respect of reviewers. It is still considered a best in class camera. Perspective shifted toward the device over time because of how good it is and IF Microsoft ever releases a true upgrade for that phone, I think it will be much more likely to get the credit it deserves. A lot of people go into stores knowing about a flagship phone but decide to buy the phone that gives them "most" of the same features for $400 less.
I totally agree with you. The other thing i think that needs to be looked at is the EBB and FLOW of market share....I think this quarter MS did an exceptional job of keeping is user base despite not having much in the lineup of new devices to choose from. MS' also has officially taken control of all things NOKIA ( in the MS world) while juggling all of its other businesses and despite that has managed to basically be flat on sales. Everyone seems to think its easy for MS just to say NOPE we are not giving anyone exclusives in the US but the reality is they dont have that leverage yet- though coming under the MS umbrellla the Lumia Line might have a better chance. MS cant compete with Android and its many partners who are churning out android phones like we change underwear......so i think their approach up to now has been admirable. IMHO they need a few High End devices to elevate the brand in the eyes of the percieved elite( Media, Tech, Celebs and every day people...etc) this will in turn make the platform desireable. The lack of APPS to me are a non issue because we have the majority of apps that are on other platforms and are getting new ones everyday . I Think tech is starting to realize that MS is a contender that is not going away no matter how they may ignore MS right now. MS must also break through to the resellers to ensure they are driving people to our platform That is the real barrier. Going to a Store and seeing no MS displays...or asking someone for a WP and them trying to seel you an Iphone or Android phone and then giving you ten different reasons why IPHONE or ANDROID is better...has got to stop. That is one of the major things that rob people of testing a windows phone and realizing that there is little difference in features between IOS ..ANDROID vs WP but a major difference in Useablitity between WP vs IOS and Android
Part of the reason flagships are important is the enthusiast crowd who friends and family look to for tech advice. I have a number of family members who would be candidates for low- to mid-range Windows Phones but without a decent upgrade for my Ativ S in Canada, it is hard for me to be excited enough to get people to switch. Without upgrades at ALL levels, how can people who have tried on a low model phone move up?
@steveyayo
Well said bro. Personally I don't think flagship is going to solve this issue.WP Appstore/App/update is f**ked up, reason why no one is ready to pay $600+ for windows phone.
Meh.
When is Microsoft going to figure out that they have to sell a flagship on all major carriers? The exclusivity stuff clearly doesn't work. I'm really just beating a dead horse here.
It is not about "figuring out". Microsoft (and previously Nokia) have to 'sell' their phone to the carriers who then sell it to you. Why would a carrier want to take a phone that their competition is getting? Can you point to sales numbers that show this item is so hot, such a must have that customers will do anything to get it? Nope, not yet. Carriers are the middleman. You have to go through them to get to the customer. When you command a large percentage of market share or sales, then (and only then) can you tell all four carriers to take your phone (or leave it). I think the problem is you are seeing this issue as a consumer, and not someone who actually has to sell the phone to the carrier first. I mean, does Sprint even want a high-end Lumia phone? Show me the evidence that they do.
It's hard for any carrier to validate their need or want of any WP when their own sales staff actively, deliberately, ignorantly, and stubbornly steer customers away from WP even when those customers specifically ask for a WP. It's happened to me twice, and combing the forums reveals that it happens a LOT.
European carriers dont seem to have a problem carrying a device their competitors do, seems its the egocentric US carriers that have this problem. Which is another reason why Microsoft should concentrate on regions where WP actually does sell and not this US-centric approach which has not worked.
I don't entirely disagree, although the tech media (and tech zeitgeist) clearly starts in the US. Until popular media outlets are on board with Windows Phone, it won't trickle down to the rest of the world. I hate to put emphasis on anything being US-centric, but I think there is some truth in it for technology and trends.
Conclusion: Microsoft should put more effort to Finland, Italy, Brazil, etc
or go and buy of the major carriers in the US
or
DO BOTH
MSFT need to hold their nerve and wait till the win 10 announcement.
Windows 10 is no guarantee of anything, what exactly about it will help WP if its still not promoted or held back by biased reps in stores?
I mean in the sense that msft can have a renewed push for a new product hopefully free of the "coming soon" stigmas wp is currently burdened with.
Though you're spot on, if carriers and sales reps are apathetic, wp will never sell well
A flagship is not a flagship unless it has widespread distribution potential and marketing clout from Microsoft. In Canada, Rogers and Telus carried the 1020 but it did not get a fair shake and sales ceased several months ago. As for the 920, only Rogers had it and, again, no fair shake at the point of sale. The 930 is awesome right now but, again, no wide-spread distribution. What about a 1020 successor? The "1030" has the potential to BE that flagship but, to date, it's a pipedream. And, if past treatment of so-called flagship phones holds true, we'll only be able to pick up these flagships from a fraction of the carriers available. The flagship should be in front of everyone, everywhere. Not just from a select carrier or two on a back shelf behind the Galaxy and iPhone flagships that are featured at the front of every carrier store in North America. I can wait until Windows 10... I love my 1020!!! But, for the sake of the platform, Microsoft must be far more aggressive. It's been nice to see the Lumia830 announced by every major carrier in Canada... and, I am hoping for more of the same with the next flagship!!
Sad to see the decrease in China even with Cortana, or is it not available yet?
Yeah, that was surprising to me too. That is a big drop off. Not good. How does Japan see an increase all of a sudden, though? I'm pretty sure a new Windows Phone hasn't been released there since 2011...
Maybe its because Verizon won't release the dam update and making people steer away from WP
You have a valid point. No one at Verizon has a single clue what's happening.
Yeah, I remember when their official Twitter account acknolwedged that they were prematurely retiring the Lumia Icon and some customers replied asking when we were going to get "the update" and Verizon responded with "What update are you referring to?", to which they received a slew of "CYAN!!!!" replies. The fact that their official Twitter account doesn't even know that we've been waitinf for effing forever for them to roll out WP8.1 is proof enough that they don't give a crap about WP. Most amusingly, though, is that the AT&T twitter account then jumped in on the thread and said it was the perfect time to switch to AT&T, lol.
Windows Phone has two problems. The first is the lack of cutting edge phones that attract attention. The second is a lack of popular apps and more importantly updates to popular apps it does have to keep them on par with iOS or Android equivalents.
My local Best Buy only carries the Lumia 521. 3/4 of the phones are some version off a Gallaxy
My local bestbuy wont even carry windows phones. They have pretty good Windows PC section, but i have never seen windows phone in wireless section..!!
Bundle the Xbox one with a phone
Exactly! like a lumia 520 and all xbox one owners get the chance to try out wp and maybe convert. Plus wp market will be helped out by xbox.
This would work But there would have to be a consistent pipeline of Xbox games for the mobile market.
That's another 'funny' way out!!
Y cant they just have one phone like apple and shit
they will when Lumia gets more reputation.
during summer we didnt had any devices. except 630. thsts bound to happen. they bought nokia devices divison and go new CEO which is shuffling things and management a lot so bound to happen.
US market would increase if Americans actually knew what an unsubsidized phone actually was. Many parents give their kids their old iPhones and get new ones on contract. Kids are where the future is when it comes to setting trends. Look at how many high school kids and college students want a Mac,IPad,IPod,Xbox, just because...cool factor.
"The rest of 2014 and early 2015 appear to be a transition phase"
It was for WP8.1... WP8.0...
And for Nodo, and for Mango... And for the whole time...
The Icon is a good phone, Verizon is trash for not updating it. No matter what anyone says or does, no Lumia can prosper on this network with Verizon going out of their way to make it suck. Whoever is responsible for this needs to be canned for willful incompetence.
i think i read that verizon was owned by vodaphonee, and in the uk im with vodaphone waiting for my update. With apple it was like couple of days, here now update is feeling long time away still. Hey update lol
Not really sure what to do anymore. I have the 1520 and love it however it is already an older device. My husband has the 925 and is now able to upgrade. He is 90% positive he is going back to iphone since there is literally nothing except the 1520 on AT&T that is worth a damn. VERY stupid of MS not to release a solid phone for the holidays. I really could care less about them changing the name. They need to give the people what they want, when they want it or they will have no one left. Especially since you can upgrade every year with AT&T next. Come next July, Windows 10 or not, if there is not a full fledged flagship to knock our socks I will be saying farewell after having a WP since my gen 1 Samsung Focus. I will not continue to talk up WP in hopes friends and family will switch. Why should I? If MS doesn't care, why should we???
They're releasing the 830 in November, well before holidays. Targeting a much larger market than the 1030/930/1530 would. As for Microsoft not caring, that's a joke and comes solely from an undeserved sense of entitlement you seem to have over how a massive corporation is supposed to conduct business. Maybe they decided releasing another high end flopship would be damaging to the brand, how many high end flops is one company allowed?
If you would have read my post before interjecting your BS you would have seen that I said a solid phone for the holidays. The 830 is not that device. As far as my entitlement, I am just as entitled to my opinion as you are entitled to post your nonsense. I have 5 past WP devices and windows tablets. So yeah I get to have an opinion on the matter. The fact is not everyone is looking for a cheap phone. Some of us would like to have a solid contender. They could have slightly upgraded the 1520 and given it a smaller screen and released that for the holidays. That at least would have given people something.
I would never hire you....and you don't have a glue why...
This situation is like Windows vs Mac. Both have loyal users and cater to different people. These people, they are satisfied with their platform of choice so they don't see the need to migrate to another platform. I honestly can't see WP's market share breaking the 15% point for at least a few years, unless Android or iOS flop. I don't think bombarding the market with high end phones will help much too. Bare in mind, that the average consumer don't read too much on specs. They follow the crowd. Besides, its the midrange and low-end Lumias that are selling well.
Great read on the current state of affair.
I think its not about new models....its about quality of apps that withdraw lot of people from WP....whatsapp can't send audios,instagm in beta etc....app switching not that much optimised...from fb app to messenger there's always 4-5 secnds of resuming screen .... Hope wp10 Correct them all...
lol really, My whats app sends audio, i use 6tag cause its way beter than instgram, The only problem with apps is gameing apps theres a huge gap there, but normal apps are mostly there, you can check the windows phone store and see if all your apps are there if your thinking about win phone, either way it isnt a issue if your living in windows eco system, much like a iphone user or a android user does, bifference is we got cortana, live tiles and look sexy all at the same time. PS you have a b4roken phone, my facebook is instant
Microsoft are doing this to themselves, they only have TWO issues to resolve but for some idiotic reason, they don't have the balls to do it: 1. SUPPLY
- Too many models; confusing, limits manufacturing capacity; have only a HIGH, MID and BUDGET model
- Have the balls to COMMIT to RELEASE DATES; None of this "Coming Soon" crap 2. DISTRIBUTION
- Make all models available on most bands for most carriers; ditch the "Carrier Exclusive" crap. It annoys the end-customer. The priority should be to grow and sustain the INSTALLED BASE, not some short sighted goal of device sales. You might sell a lot to AT&T but Windows phone will DIE if those devices aren't being sold. I don't know why you don't get this when the Windows and Office product teams have been doing this for YEARS.
- Expand your sales and distribution network. I see a damn Galaxy/Nexus/iPhone in every electronics store, but for some idiotic reason, I can't say the same for Windows Phone. You did it with Windows and Office, you can do it with Lumia if you pulled your finger out. You're welcome.
We need a flagship device asap. The buzz that a flagship generates helps drive people to move to WP.
Who is really buzzing over mid range cheap devices when the competition has such strong flagships.
Too pricey, have to undersell a champion to be a champion, not enough amazing flagship phones, to little, not soon enough, even the entry level phones are being seriously overpriced compared to other windows budget phones. It's as if Microsoft is trying to lose out. Btw still looking for my 10X 6"screen micro SD expandable full featured 1020 successor. SERIOUSLY, yes, 10X pureview zoom, 6 inc screen.
Lack of flagships, or even strategic leaks of upcoming flagships is a serious downer for WP. The Sony Z3c is immense bang for buck and currently has my eye. However, with Sony iterating every six months and hopefully next windows phones coming out April, ill be sticking to my L925. Especially as duolingo is finally coming to wp!
the 930 is their flagship phone, the fact they dont includ a sd slot is stupid, but 32gig compared to the 16 most others give you is not a bad trade of, For me 64 would have been beter, and i dont include one drives free 15 gig you get. Personally you should get the smae space on your phone on the onecloud so you can save the phone on onecload aas a whole.
Would it be safe to say that it's likely that no new big Windows Phones will be launched until late next year? Working as an indirect retailer for Verizon, occasionally I get fellow Windows Phone fans come in asking for the Lumia Icon (which is discontinued) or if there's anything new on the horizon, and I just can't picture anything coming anytime soon with a big push from MS. Seems like the best opportunity for them will be with the launch of Windows 10, and it might make a bigger splash if they hold off on R&D for a phone release this year or early next year, if it will be better put toward a good phone for end of next year, instead. Totally understandable, but the lull in Windows Phones now on Verizon really brings me down, with no Windows Phones to really tout to customers looking for a fresh take on a phone OS. Icon is discontinued, 928 is limited but also fading, and 822 I believe is no longer stocked in stores. My store stopped stocking all Windows Phone devices, entirely. The only one we offer at this point is the HTC One M8, but only through special order if a customer asks for it, and we don't have a demo or dummy unit. So no one buys it. I can absolutely understand MS wants to make a big splash in late 2015. And medicre/failed launches for WP 8.1 are silly from a business perspective. Doing the same thing each quarter expecting different results. But in order to avoid marketshare dropping even further, they need something to sell. I guess the low end phones will suffice, but I don't think Verizon will bite at anything other than non-colorful high end phones that are guaranteed to sell. And if it's a Windows Phone, they won't promote it, maybe offer a flyer for a week, and then give up and say they "tried." Which is what usually happens at our stores. No demo unit, no mention, reps are not knowledgeable so they never offer WP, no ads, the usual.
i tiohnk 8.1 made the windows phone viable and thats taken 4 years, really the win 8.1 is where microsoft should have been starting from 4 years ago, thats the real issue. My worry is now they have a exellent phone will they stay with it or change it largely, cause it doesnt need huge changes it needs refinements, together with improved app stare games in particular and of course make it available everywhere on multiple carriers, then in another 2-3 yeasrs youll have 20-30% of the market world wide, that im sure of.
technically ATT announced the 830 in September and is going to release it in november... on the flip side of the opinion... why cant microsoft lumia (ex-nokia) release ONE flagship per calendar year... like most other comnpanies?
I think if they released just one each year, they would be in a worse position. Sure, they would have more money to market and spend on R&D and such for a reallyyyy good phone, but they also have multiple phones in order to hit multiple price points, particularly the low end market. If they only made one high end phone, they would lose the low end market, entirely, which is where MS is thriving right now. They could probably do without so many devices. Instead of like 5 price points to hit, they should just do 3 or so. Low end, mid-range, and high end. So I think you're right, to an extent. But maybe not just one phone. 3 feels like the sweet spot (for now).
if they had 1 model theyd be gone by now, they need to sell multiple models to try and break into markets, eg 520 is the cheapest and best selling windows phone its also made win phones sell more than iphones in some countries.
It's so frustrating to see numbers like this!. I'm on WP community since the beginning and year after year I have hopes that growth will be higher, but the years go by and the growth is always small, sometimes even decreases!! I don't know if I believe that there is a solution to this problem!! Definitely Windows 10 won't change that.
This is why I just bought the 830 (off ebay) as soon as it was available. I wanted a new phone to replace my 920 and was close to just getting a 1020 cheap but knew I would regret this. I bought it knowing it was a stop gap or sidegrade as people are calling it. I was considering waiting for the HTC One but then I would have lots of Qi charges just sitting around that only my Nexus 7 could use, go figure. I fully anticipate upgrading to a "flagship" phone when it comes out (preferably with Qi and SD an card slot). Until then I will be quite happy with the 830.
I have used iphone and android in the past but i am currently using lumia 1520 from the past 10months. As far as the windows phone experience goes, i have to admit i am pretty satisfied. It pretty much has all utility and common apps you need. But among my friends circle I am the only one with a windows phone - and when ever i hang out with my friends, people use my phone for taking photos because of best camera quality. I use Office too in my phone, Here maps (very useful), here transit are handy too at times. I recommended buying windows phones to my frens, but they always reply saying Win phone is some kind of complication to use or say its lacks in apps. I believe its the awareness among consumers that MS need to address. MS needs to do lot of things to up there market - more robust marketing, catchy features doesnot have to be block bustering but more of day to day use to reach masses, release of flagship phones in the market as a consumer take point. When it comes to carriers, MS need to sell phones to carriers, which case carriers in US are not ready to take up the MS phone as they dont see it overcoming the other ecosystems. MS itself need to be transperant and there main point of business is not selling phones. To me MS is slowly evolving to the mobile trends and they themselves are not caring of the market share (as per Nadella's comments) of Win phones, but its a work in progress for them because of there mobility strategy (company as whole). Market share is not a overnight thing, MS is rightly in the market (overall 4-4.5% market share), they need to focus on Ads as they did for Surface rightly during recent times.
If you read various forums and sites about Windows Phone you will notice that many people complain that they can't find a certain WP smartphone that they are looking for. MS needs to do a better job making sure their phones are more widely available, even if it means selling them unlocked online.
A lot of people like to walk into a shop, choose a phone and go home with it. Microsoft needs ALL their phones in ALL the stores. I mean, that's what Apple and Samsung do.
It's hard to find Microsoft product in Thailand full stop so most go for Apple or Android. Microsoft should have a big store in Bangkok. Apple are in every second shopping center.
offering alot more space and a sd on everyphone would help, they definatly need to offer a product with more specs at a cheaper price that the competition to start eating away at that piece of the pie, the 930 is brilliant but ive spoken to alot of people that didnt get it and wanted to because it onld have 32gig and because there was no sd and no glance. As much as i love my 930 and its screen, if i knew what glance was when picking phone and new 930 didnt have it, i think id have bought the 830 reluctantly. I use my phone all the time to tell time lol.
See no reason to upgrade my 920... Might have done if the 930 had a memory card slot... Was contemplating an upgrade to the 1520 as that had a memory card slot but that has been discontinued now...!
Go for Lumia 830. Seriously, it is an upgrade to 920. I really enjoyed using my friends 830. Performance much better than 920 using 8.1.1
Did Dan just write, " blow their wad"? What literally school did you go to?
Dan's a freakin Mark Twain.
It is also a reflection of Microsoft's complete incompetence at marketing consumer products. Now that Nokia is off the job, Microsoft has got to pick it up, but they lack the knowledge and/or willingness to do what has to be done. Man, Australia and China really cratered! On the plus side, Windows Phone sales are not fallling nearly as fast as Other.
Dude these numbers are quarterly sales figures, not market share numbers. These sales figures fluctuate all the time. Sometimes dramatically. Relax a little. Breathe.
And what happens to your market share when you sell a smaller percentage of total phones sales this year than you did last year, and your two main competitors sell more this year than last year? It goes down. When Windows Phone market share hits 10% in the US, I'll breathe. I may never breathe again.
"Overall, sales of Windows Phone are holding steadily as a relative percentage of overall smartphone purchases." Don't be so negative.
I tend to think they should launch a high end device as soon as they can. I suspect Windows 10 will not LOOK dramatically different from Windows 8.1, and marketing messages can be fuzzied as needed. Given the relativel smaller important of WP (relative to Windows desktop/laptop and perhaps even tablets in the US and perhaps UK). On the latest numbers, disappointing that the impact of the slew of lower end WPs from other OEMs has had no impact but I am hoping that's mosltly because they had not yet rolled out properly (nor had 630/635 in all markets, AFAIK).
I'm waiting for a flagship too. Love my 920, but I'm looking forward to a new flagship here in Canada.
Where is the 1520 competitor, Microsoft?! We need it! And I can't understand why they call 930 as flagman. 1520 has better display, it has sdcard etc. I think 1520 is still the best.
to me the 930 is the flagship, the reson is the 1520 is more a phablet and most people want a 5in phone not a phablet so to me thats where you stick the term flagship. Apart from missing a sd card it is a great phone, the quality to me is near perfect, exept for the sim tray, i liked the using tool method. But i have never had a phone run so smoothly and on such a gorgeos phone, i simply look at the 930 and think flagship. The 1520 is a great phone but its also got a limited market.
What we really really need is:
1- apps, updated apps
2- better support from retailers + accessories.
Ask anyone why not a WP, he or she will give you one of the above reasons.
BTW taking about 2 months to release a phone is BS
So happy I wanted a big screen phone. My 1520 is the the best Lumia I used so far (Though I miss my 1020 cameras sometimes). It feels like that the performance of this phone is so strong it can smooth out the somewhat heavy, and not optimal Windows Phone 8.1. If it wasn't for this phone I might have given up on WP, wich is not the wanted situation.
I think once Win 10 is out, MS share starts improving. A same app developed for desktop windows should be working even for Win phone, if Iam not wrong. A developer tends to develop app for Win 10 because of vast market share of PC as whole, and so making accessible to win phone as well....
It's 6 months, WP will be dead then
They will be called Windows phones (in lower case) Still Windows phones..
it needs more than win 10 it need alot of things as mentioned by many people here, mainly it needs to change perseption people have about the phone and the app store, it needs to market the product beter and it needs to start listening to the customer. sd cards on all your phones why, cause your far behind android and apple, stick 64-128 space too and watch peoples eyes pop, make google supoort you if you want those apple and android fans to leave.. Give us great batery life,ops you have with the lumia 930, 1520 and 830, probably more.
I work to sell Nokia phones (volunteer) , finally one of my teachers decided to get the 730 but wait MS still walking to SA to bring it.
One word WTF
Desperately in need of new flagship. 930 isn't a flagship , it was a lazy excuse . No flagships and sales drop. It's the blunt end of it.. Other companies are chucking flagships out like an estate teen. And the money is rolling in
Yup I had to get the developer preview
Here's some ideas - 1) Advertise... So people know the 930 is better than the iPhone 6 in a bunch if ways
2) Advertise... So people know the 930 exists
3) Make it available across more carriers
4) Advertise... Just freaking advertise
5) Release an updated 1030 - it's a super phone not a flagship so there's no clash with holding back on a flagship until W10 then and at least there is a wow phone in the meantime. Make it a 4.7" screen, with glance, sensorcore tech and tweak the 41MP camera - then it'll crap all over the iPhone 6 and give the media something to talk about until a new flagship (930 replacement) gets released with W10 - also release an updated 1520 with W10 as well.
Well, they could hold back and use any hype around Windows 10 to market any new Phone alongside it. Trouble is, that people will see it and think 'Ugh, is that Windows on a Phone? NO THANKS!', which has been part of the problem from the start. And now of course people say 'And it kinda looks like Windows 8. Who'd want that?!'. Poor branding and poor marketing is a lot of the reason for resulting poor market share.
Look at Italy. Smart people. And Japan. They are abandonning the ios ship. Mmm, that's going to hurt.(Duke Nukem voiceover) Also looking at the WindowsCentral Lumia 730/735 forum, it's doing great in India. Also overhere the Lumia 735 has started higher in pricing and has still not dropped to Nokia's estimated retail pricing. Should be a good sign.
Advertise!!?? The UI ! this is its strongest asset! Its fresh new and current! Full tv screen of a flagship say 930.
Show home screen,
Show tiles updating,
Show popular apps on screen,
Press tiles, allon the full tv screen
Show the slide keyboard in use
Show email outlook!
Show whatapp etc..
Its a superb system with fantastic hardware too, poorly advertised!!
Cone on ms get it sorted!!!!
Peter
Needs a 1030 with killer specs, and SD...
"Releasing two 'flagship' Lumias within six months of each other could anger early-adopters (just look back at the Lumia 925 announcement)." I personally think a new flagship phone should be released every 6-9 months. People just need to realize you can only own the latest and greatest electronics for so long, and it doesn't mean the phone you bought 6 months ago is any less great than when you originally bought it.
I absolutely believe a major player in the slowdown is the lack of a flagship. Sure, they're kicking out cheapie after cheapie to draw from the Android crowd, but there's been no truly "wow" device. I'm holding on to my Lumia 1020 until a real replacement comes out. At this point, I don't believe we'll see a new flagship until Q3 next year.
The 1520, while a great phone, is not the flagship phone they need. It's too big for the average user. If Microsoft could develop a Microsoft phone like Apple has the Iphone, they might have a chance. I hate to be a negative, but even though I love the WP OS, it's just not looking good. I was with the Palm the whole time and sadly, this WP trend reminds me of Palm.
WP needs the buzz/hype/drones of an iphone but the specs of the 1520/Icon are in most respects better than the iphone 6/plus. Apple's devices just got NFC which WP has had for years, and still has less ram, lower memory, no expandable storage, lower screen resolution, etc. See for yourself. http://www.windowscentral.com/spec-fight-new-iphone-6-vs-best-new-windows-phones
I am satisfied with lumia but the customer support for them here in Germany is terible.
Low end no excitement devices
Average person sees Cortana ad during the Monday Night Football game. "Huh, I'm in the market for a new phone. That looks cool!" Next day, goes to Best Buy to check out the Cortana phone and see what they have. No phones anywhere on display. They ask the salesperson. Salesperson: "Oh haha... yeah... we have the prepaid windows GoPhone over there for $70... but really, Cortana is just like Siri or OK Google... which carrier do you have? We have some great deals on the new Samsung and iPhones right now, let me show you..." There. That's why Windows Phone is like it is in the US.
No suprise
Its hard to buy windows phone down under. Could not get a decent replacement for the NL 625, whose electronic switch failed under warranty! Had to downgrade to NL 630; a major downgrade and I have to wait at least a month to get the phone. My contacts a sitting somewhere in the cloud while I am using the trusted nokia 2630 (which has a VGA camera button). The NL 730 is nowhere to be seen, whom do I blame, idk! The phones are just not there for people to purchase, food for thought. Now the NL 630 does not have a PDF user manual that's a problem for a no worlder! Everything is going to be worse with this cloud first thingy.
Microsoft, please make a flagship. It is really needed. :(
It's hard to advise any friends to buy a Windows Phone if they are on Verizon. The "flagship" phone is the Icon, and is not being supported. The Icon should have had Cyan months ago
Microsoft, we need / want new high-end phones, and also in Canada!!!!
Given Microsoft's track record an April announcment will likely mean a release some time between September and November. That's far too long to wait for a new flagship. Trying to sync a launch with Apple or Samsung's big releases is a lost cause, specifically because it takes Microsoft far too long to get a new phone on the market after they've announced it. They need something a lot sooner. Of course, I also don't want to see a Lumia 935 that gets obsoleted late in the year. Really, the best possible scenario for Microsoft would be to take a page from Apple's book. Announce the new flagship running the new OS and -- surprise! -- you'll be able to buy one of your very own in a few weeks. Unfortatunately, we all know that's not going to happen.
Why do we never get to see any sales data for Brazil or India, or Indonisa when they are three very large markets while they show Australia which has about 14 people in the whole country. Don't get me wrong I served with a combined Black Ops operation in Vietnam many years ago and our partner unit was from the land down under. Have the greatest respect for the Ausie people. But not the biggest smartphone market.
Not going to pile on the obvious, but please just give us a new flagship already. We are dying here waiting way too long. Been sitting on an upgrade for 6 months now waiting for McLaren, now I have nothing to buy thanks to their total incompetence. When is MS going to learn that sitting out market cycles has long term consequences?
Hey daniel, this sale share, not overall sales. Infact, msft has sold the most lumia it has sold ever. There is a difference, so the headline is totally wrong. And windows are full of whinners.
Microsoft next year with Windows 10 sell it everywhere "available for everyone!" big marketing campaign all year round! Using up to date hardware! Not like "Lumia 930" with one year old hardware. Oh and Everyone gets update's! My WP8 NEVER got an update to WP8.1 for my ATIV S
To increase its market share, I believe Microsoft has to win the OEMs back. Back in the early stages of wp7, Microsoft had devices from HTC, Samsung and LG and the also had agreements with other OEMs such as Sony and Dell. What happened to them? IMO, Microsoft's deal with Nokia happened and it pissed off the OEMs, who deserted the platform leaving Nokia as the dominant player to advance the OS. I am not knocking Nokia, as my first windows phone was the L900, which I liked so much that I upgraded to my current smartphone, the L920. Nokia made some nice devices, but let’s face it their forte was in feature phones. They made high-quality and reliable hardware, however innovation often legged behind the competition. Hence, they were probably not the best manufacturer to rely on for a flagship device. That’s where Microsoft needed the OEMs, and that is most likely the reason behind them purchasing the company, which I believe was the right move. I speculate that Microsoft killed the McLaren as means to lure other OEM’s, while also lowering the Lumia’s market share dominance of the WP platform.
why am i not surprised.....
Ms doesn't advertise wp in Australia ever.. As in ever... Why would people buy something no ones knows of?? Combine that with their overpriced 2yo tech in their "affordable flagships" and why on earth would people jump ship to wp? Ms needs to actually employ at least 1 sales rep because currently we have to assume there isn't one..
POOR MARKETING ADVERTISING STRATEGY, LACK OF FLAGSHIPS!!..... ARE YOU READING THIS MICROSOFT!?..... WAKE UP!!!!.... the only way that I see WP will get traction upward on market share is if they release FLAGSHIPS OFF CONTRACT every 6-9 months!..also, keep support of low end devices and constant updates!! PUMP OUT MORE APPS!... ADVERTISE MORE!...
I have been waiting since the Lumia 920 for a true flagship phone sitting on an LG G2 at the moment and its Battery life is far better then any windows phone i owned . Getting towards the point of me never returning to a windows phone if they don't give a high end option soon. and that would be a shame as my SP3 is looking for an ideal partner.
MS really needs to think about the future of its smartphones. What to do with Windows 10 on phones etc. In my opinion they should focus their offer on 5 devices. With the lowest 2 having the optional dual SIM versions. I know I'm not the expert but, in my opinion, Lumia new line with Windows 10 should consist of widely available non-exclusive models, as follows: 540 - 4.3" 480x800 OLED, basically current 530 as the entry low-cost model, 5MP camera with some tweaks, shutter button, without LTE 640 - 4.5 720p OLED, basically slightly smaller version of current 730, shutter button, screen resolution in 630 is pitiful, 840 - 4.7 - 720p to FHD(depends on the cost, preferably FHD) OLED, Snapdragon 6xx(highest possible), if 720p then 4xx(highest possible), improved camera from current 830, shutter button 1040 - 5-5.2" FHD or QHD OLED, Snapdragon 8xx(highest possible), improved camera from current 930 or totally revamped from 1020(withouth the hump to keep it slick), shutter button, true flagship, premium materials etc, smaller version of 1640 with the same internals, 1640 - 6" FHD or QHD OLED, Snapdragon 8xx(highest possible), improved camera from current 930 or totally revamped from 1020(withouth the hump to keep it slick), shutter button, bigger version of 1040 with the same internals, All, beside 540, have LTE, front facing 5MP cams, 540 2MP, That way the line would consist of 3 SoC's(if 840 would use Snapdragon 4xx with 720p screen) and 3 screen resolutions, perfect for every programmer, for keeping the experience consistent across the platform, for maintaining future updates. MS really needs to fight for every user and every phone sold, The prices should be lowest possible, barely profitable, because MS is not in position to argue that its platform is better or has more apps. It is lacking in some areas. MS needs user, a lot of them, fast.
Go apply for a job in Ms, you might be the only smart person in marketing..
"blow their wad"... Nice!
Waiting until mid 2015 for a new flagship will be one more nail in their coffin. The fact is that the last widely available flagship they have launched is the 1020. Which is ridiculous. Icon, 930, and 1520 have all been been limited releases in some way. In Canada the current 'flagship' is the 1020. Simply inexcusable. I am entering the last 4 months of my 3 yr contract with my Lumia 900 and really will likely be moving to Android or IOS when its up and Microsoft has no one to blame but themselves.
Normally, I would say that they need to release a flagship as soon as possible but considering how long it takes carriers to release updates, they shouldn't release anything until WP10 is ready to roll. And they need to release a FLAGSHIP! They need to take the specs of all the high-end Droids (Galaxy Note, S5, LG G3, M8, Droid Turbo) and use them as a starting point.
Good. Now WP users can feel much MORE UNIQUE when standing among the crowds as the adoption is getting lesser and lesser, and evetually dies off. With the Nokia branding no longer around, WP is so "special" now.
Yes you can see the lull. If you look at adduplex data for Aug? for Italy and AU you see a very different selection of phones in the wild. Italy has predominately MID/LOW end phones in the top listed used phones so it makes sense their sales are OK as thats whats currently available in new handsets. In AU I would say many are waiting for the new flagship devices. I wonder whether the new Microsoft Lumia has stalled the release as I am sure MS want some premium devices for their rebadged launch.
^^correct in au are waiting for something worth swapping too.. I see no reason to go from a 925with glance to a 930 without.. If the htc had a better camera maybe but honestly I want a flagship phablet!
Giving WP til the end of this year or early next year before moving back to android. Given it 2 full year of use and a chance to show what it can offer but sadly it ain't cutting it. MS seriously need to treat WP more seriously if they wanna gain market share.
Its dead Jim. At least until Summer 2015 and that is the last chance they have to hit it out of the park. I loved my Palm Treo too, but the day came when I had to face reality and move on. I've mostly moved on from WP for now. I'll hang around, but they wont get 1 dime from me until they get their crap together. Oh and news flash...just make pure unlocked phones and screw the carrier specific phones.
Yeah the US carrier thing is what kills it... in AU I can basically use any new phone on any carrier. Hopefully MS just do a global US version and sell it out of MS Stores if they have too.
What about in India?
First, let me get it out there...I am jumping back to iOS with a 6+. I jumped to WP with a 720 and then the 920 and finally the 1020. I enjoyed the change in OS. It was refreshing and different. Everything was OK until two things happened. The first was when I bought my wife her iPhone 6 (upgrade from 4s) and was setting it up for her. The OS had the apps for the services we have (SiriusXM, TAGG (pet tracker)) as well as all of the MS apps/services like OneDrive and Office and XBOX music that we also use. I have been making excuses to myself for the lack of apps like there are workarounds and such but I finally asked myself why am I making excuses and finding workarounds.
Second was the 8.1 update. Some of the changes were great even if the other OS choices had them for years (folders anyone). But the change in direction of the OS bothered me. No more hubs and direct social media integration...the main marketing point of WP in the beginning. The XBOX music app on 8.1.x is horrible and not getting better IMO. I have never seen an app that just does the strangest things for no reason. Shuffle to not shuffle, warn me in the middle of an album that loud noises might damage my hearing and then automatically adjust the volume down. Lately, my 1020 has been both slow (...resuming) and absolutely eating battery life. The only new app I have is Flipboard or one of the other app updates might be causing the battery issue. I have done a hard reset after each update but that gets...annoying. So...after about 3 years I am moving back to Apple with a 6 plus. Despite the tech being middling, it is what I have been looking for in a phone-big but not too big, apps and accessories and every service that I use from MS. Yes, WP needs a splashy flagship phone. Not because they sell in large amounts but because they are props for marketing. Samsung doesn't market its low end phones. It markets its latest Galaxy and Note lines and relies on that marketing to sell the older phones to the masses. All of the adds for the 1020 were great. Not many people bought the 1020 but it got the name out there. It's funny how many WP you see in TV shows and movies. I guess that is the MS way now...subliminal marketing.
Have to disagree. WP xbox music app is best of all the alternative OS xbox music apps
I don't think we'll see a new flagship phone untill 64bit chipsets from qualcom become available and the 64bit version of windows is complete. Windows Phone 8.1 is a dead end for Microsoft. By far the biggest issue for the platform though is the APP GAP. There is little interest from third party developers to either update apps and bring them up to speed with their Android and iOS counterparts or create/port new ones. Microsoft is also to blame here. First party apps are just terrible! They are either in prolonged beta or abandoned. Cortana was anounced over 6 months ago and it's nowhere to be seen. Office lacks print functionality! Skype is slow and unresponsive (always resuming) on the vast majority of WP8.1 devices. Facebook lacks functionality that the other platforms have had for years! The list is long... Here maps and Blue&Me integration are the two reasons I'm holding on to my Lumia 625. For everything else I'll be getting an iPhone 6 Plus. Sorry Microsoft... I tried
Microsoft need to hire a new advertising agency. It's adverts have never really been inspiring, and are more a turn off than a turn on. Maybe hire Apple ad agency?! There are too many models of Lumia available at the moment. Microsoft should focus on just three handsets - one at the entry level; one at the mid level; and one high-end flaghip device. These should trump the Android alternatives in all regards.

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