Would you want Windows 11 on a Surface Duo?

The poll lacks that option on purpose. We want to know if you want Windows 11 on the Duo.

I figured that was by design. :-) In its current state, I would not want Windows 11 as my mobile OS. But a few more tweaks to improve touch control and more seamless integration with running Android apps and I would. MS has shown it can make a mobile OS I prefer over Android and iOS.

Android app integration is not going to work at all. Hate to burst ya bubble lol. I use Sailfish X as a daily driver with android apps. 1)Microsoft already has a full fledge android device running GMS. 2)Android app integration requires access at a deep level and on smartphones you can't run something like virtualized TPM to safeguard against zero day exploits for example without significantly impacting battery life. So, you have to lock down the apps completely which breaks fair amount of functionality. On Sailfish X, The Microsoft authenticator app doesn't work completely as it cannot receive tokens. Microsoft can fix that yes but the same issue applies to other authenticator apps. Furthermore a total lock out also means locking out aosp settings (apparently) - you can't access aosp android settings unless you use some obscure loop hole in some apps, the settings page only lets you assign permissions, clear cache, uninstall and not much else. 3)No GMS means no access to the playstore. Banks aren't going to create another aosp version of their apps - otherwise we would have seen apps created for Amazon's store. Furthermore, Microsoft will have to create android apis for their aosp android to hook into - but why would they? They already have a device running android. Microsoft's bean counters seriously didn't think it through when they axed the mobile division. So, the only thing that Microsoft can do now, is go back and reuse the codebase from previous mobile o/ses and revamp them. It's not like the code for andromeda has disappeared for example. I thought android app integration could work but the more i delved into it - it doesn't lol. There are two ways to make it work is to have both GMS apis and Windows mobile based Apis running at the same time or dual boot Windows and Android.

Thanks, TechFreak1. There is a bunch there I didn't know. I take your points. Great information.

Support for developing apps with great user experiences on small form-factor devices in Windows 8 and 10 and the runtime frameworks the apps were based on was not (generally) the problem with Microsoft's phone efforts. Microsoft screwed up the execution such that they ended up running into the classic chicken/egg conundrum: not enough users to interest "big name" app developers in supporting the platform, and not enough "big name" apps to interest users in adopting and sticking with Windows phones. Yet another case of Microsoft creating some promising (or even great, depending on your POV) tech but failing to secure the close.

Android didn’t have apps either when WP launched, and some apps like Netflix were on WP first. Apps weren’t the issue. WP just sucked. It was half-baked and Microsoft’s strategy of emulating iOS prevented them from competing successfully with Android.

It is a fun project, but Windows 11 as it is? Well nah. Thing is Windows 11 Shell isn't really optimized for such a small screen, not even meant for dual-screen type of devices either. Each screen is basically treated as two monitors on regular PC, not like how it behaves on Surface Duo or Neo was. Just too many things won't work on small display using regular Windows 11 OS meant for desktop use.

True, W11 as it is does need alot of work for small screens. However, Microsoft already has multiple forms of mobile uxs and code which they can leverage.

Well they had but those projects are long gone sadly. C-Shell project were meant to address that, but since they abandoned Andromeda, that development is now shelved. Current Windows 11 shell isn't seems to be good either below 10 inch display either, which makes it using on portable gaming console like Steam Deck feels a bit a chore, mouse-centric navigation will be still a thing there. Auto-snapping isn't even here anymore in Windows 11 which was a thing on Windows 10 Tablet Mode. You have to manually snap the app on tablet use. I think those Tablet Mode behaviour from Windows 8 and Windows 10 Tablet Mode made way for Surface Duo and Neo dual-screen multitasking behaviour.

I voted yes but not because I would actually want to run W11 on a daily basis. I just think the whole project is a fun novelty and I hope a useable, stable version comes from this. Maybe one day, as people begin to sunset their Duos, they'll install W11 just as a geeky thing to do.

Yeah, it's a fun project. It's a thing we somehow slowly loosing these days nodding our smartphones. If there is more community nodding Duo, there might be a better chance for somebody make a custom ROM extending the life of the device after MS stopped supporting and pushing updates on it.

It's thanks to the modding community WM6.x became as big as it was... If only Microsoft included that philosphy with Wp7.x as opposed to going all draconian (i.e. the HD2 couldn't run Wp7.0 because it didn't have the buttons for a "consistent experience", which Microsoft dumped later and they became too relaxed about it... lol) and Applesque (i.e. - refusing to give basic functionality i.e. notification centre until later) things would be hell of a lot different.

No, not really. What I want is for Microsoft to continue working on connecting my Duo more effectively to my Windows devices. My Phone is great when on Wi-Fi. Make it work just as well over LTE and I'm good.

Microsoft can do both.... come on man, stop being so selfish 😋🙃.

One thing does not exclude the other; actually, the opposite: they are complementary to each other.

Hell yeah...bring in r Kelly and tell him to stay away from my eyes

When duo was being developed it originally ran windows, with continuum to also be a desktop pc. That's what sold me on buying one one day. Don't get me wrong, android is great, but a three in one device was more appealing. I know I'm in a minority, but I daily drove my Lumia 950 as a phone and pc, complete with an hp laodock for on the go. Really slowed the potention of UWP changing form factors.

I would love to see continuum or something like it be available so the Duo could run a full windows version connected to a dock, but only when docked

Continumm would be even more capable with ARM64EC.

I find myself using my Duo1 w/ a keyboard/mouse & connected to a spare monitor a lot when I'm at home. It would be even better if my Thunderbolt dock would allow the Duo to connect through it.

Hell Yes! I want a duo running W11 or 10X or whatever as it's running Windows that would be a good start as at least then there's ARM64EC and I'd finally be heck load more productive on my phone.

If those apps worked well on a phone and would make you more productive, why don’t they make them for Android and iOS?

I miss Windows Phone OS a lot, I even miss Windows Mobile, but less. Nevertheless there's still nothing quite like so out there. Two years ago I would have said yes to this question no thinking. But with every single day passing by, I want to run Windows on less and less of things.

iOS is Windows phone, especially since they added their own version “Live Tiles”.

iOS widgets are nothing like Live Tiles. They are way more an early version of Android widgets. Less flexibility and functionality at this point. Live Tiles were app shortcuts with features.

So they are even better than Live Tiles. What Live Tiles strived to be. Same thing either way.

Why does Microsoft need to support Surface Duo or Neo running Windows? There are still many out there programming in visual basic. Microsoft needs to survey how many of them would like to write e.g. Winform applications and see that running in a Surface Duo or Neo? Once the Torch and LTE are working, the price of Surface Duo Generation 1 would increase. Now, WIFI, wireless mouse and keyboard seem to work. I would not underestimate the demand for Surface DUO generation 1 running Windows 11. If there is a clear demand for this, Surface Neo is next. Hopefully, with Windows 11, it is possible to run an Android app on one screen and a Windows app on the other screen.

There is no demand for the Duo with any operating system, let alone a super heavy desktop OS.

There is demand for competition, massive demand so I suggest you look up Vollaphone. There needs to be a 3rd mobile ecosystem to stop Google and Apple from engaging in monopolistic and anti-consumer practices. Google right now, is pushing full steam ahead in usurping all data connections just so they can mine more data using the Google Amp. Sure, the software maybe "open source" but all traffic will be running through Google's servers. The internet only exists as it does because data is not siloed within one company or provider. Apple on the other hand has been banning anything that doesn't line their bottom line.

It seems that this "massive demand" for a third ecosystem is not worth the challenge and the risks; btw there was a third OS, called WM and then WP but....
Actually I would further argue two, and not three, is the magic number the market seems to be able to support: we had Blackberry and WM, both of the companies behind them messed up and two new entries supplanted them: iOS and Android.
I loved WM, I had hopes for WP and I wished it had succeeded but, as it often happens, the best not necessarily wins.

Don’t forget Nokia’s offerings, and Palm. Ubuntu had a mobile offering for a while, so did Firefox. There is no demand for a third platform. The best did win. The last thing we needed was Microsoft’s iOS clone. The world needed a powerful and open mobile operating system, and that is why Android won. Google did it right and Microsoft certainly didn’t.

I really liked that Palm Pre's WebOS. To this day, I think that was the best mobile OS (in its time, obviously today's versions have transcended many of its advantages, though still haven't matched all of its strengths). Palm just didn't have the financial resources to compete with Apple and Google, could only get Sprint to carry their devices early-on, and then MS introduced another competitor, which obviously ultimately failed, but at the time, it was another nail in Palm's coffin.

Volla Phone runs Android and has sold 0 units with only 167 backers for their Kickstarter. What is your point? There is ZERO demand for a third platform.

I just want a Windows-esque version of OneNote, not this nerfed b.s. Android version

OneNote for Android is pathetic to say the least...

I wished there will be more massive improvements on OneNote for Android since Surface Duo release, but seems like not much changed since then. Heck they have yet to address better pen UX for Surface Duo to begin with. For now Galaxy Note (now Galaxy S22 Ultra) and Fold3 has a better pen UX on a smartphone-size device. Samsung somehow nailed the pen experience for smartphones, while Microsoft who has a long pedigree of taking advantage of digital pen were lackluster on Duo.

OneNote is terrible everywhere. Never bothered with it on Android as the desktop version is bad enough.

I would say that OneNote is by far the greatest note taking application every written. It works spectacularly with pen and Ink on Windows or with mouse and keyboard. The tagging and flagging features are beyond genius in the way they implemented them and integrated with Outlook and ToDo. Search looks in handwritten notes and images as well as on typed text. There is nothing else on the market that even approaches the power and utility of OneNote for its intended purpose. It's much less powerful on Android, but still the best note taking app there too.

I had a little 7in Win10 tablet, loved the thing until the screen broke, perfect size for a tablet. I've yet to hear anything good about Win11, so that doesn't hold any appeal. Also, Surface Duo? Going to have to look into what that is, that's a new one for me.

For tablet use, Windows 11 will be better than 10. It has much better touch support. Not as good as 8, but better than 10.

Remember, I am a Windows and Surface nutcase (a step above fanboy) and would love my Duo 2 (3, 4, 5) to run a version of Windows. I loved my 950XL and only battery issues were negative for me. You could make the two screens bigger by a bit, include a pen (a smaller, magnetic version of the Slim Pen 2) and work it so that both screens open as the desktop and each screen is an openable app space. On-screen buttons or edge of screen buttons (a la Galaxy s22ultra) would work for app navigation, open/close, one-button phone operations, and such. Yes, it would have to a be a Windows Lite of some sort, for a few years, but with new Intel, NVIDIA, and Qualcomm CPU/GPU offerings and memory still fairly inexpensive (per cubic bit) a Windows Surface product would be one I would buy for 2.5k in a heartbeat. Especially if end-to-end encryption (a la Signal) and satellite phone access were available through this machine. In fact, didn't Elon's latest launch include 40+ more satellites or CubeSats? And you'd get Twitter for free. But it would not ever be the full Windows 11 Professional code, at least not for a while. You could call the Duo 2 version Windows Panes - but too many folks would pun it to death calling it a pain, etc.

Starlink is constantly adding satellites. That's what I'm using for Intent access now. But note that it requires clear line of site, meaning clear view of the sky to an overhead satellite. It wouldn't work in a building (without a signal booster or transceiver), under a tree, etc.

What a dumb question. Of course not. At this point, it should be clear to all that MS has given up on mobile. Windows 11 is not now - and never will be - a mobile OS. Not to mention that there are no mobile apps for Desktop Windows. This is why the Duo - turkey that it is - is running Android. iOS was not an option, so Android was the only choice. The fact is, only hard core Windows Geeks want a phone that is running “Windows”. All for the same reason. So they can plug into a dock/monitor/mouse/keyboard (all of which will be provided by others) to avoid carrying a laptop. The vast majority of the planet want no such thing. Not to mention that hotels/restaurants/cafes have no interest in supplying docks/monitors/mice/keyboards/cables/power supplies for the small number of people carrying “windows phones”. 🙄

It's a "dumb" question but over 80% of people who voted disagree with you. And before you argue that this is an enthusiast site, we know that when we make the polls. We want to know what enthusiasts want.

Since Microsoft never had any mobile aspirations when creating Windows 11, it was designed first and foremost to be an operating system that provided a great user experience on traditional form-factor (PC) devices. That your poll is framed in a way as to put the idea of "Windows" on the Surface Duo as an option of (specifically) Windows 11 or nothing already does the whole idea a disservice right from the start. Windows 10, while (arguably) not the best Windows on mobile experience, is at least still more "mobile-like" than Windows 11. If your poll had been put either as an option of having "Windows" (no specific version) on the Duo or not, or having any of Windows 10/Windows 10X/Windows 11 on the Duo or not, then you'd be more likely to get a useful result. I, for one, probably wouldn't be much interested in Windows 11 (specifically) on the Duo (unless Microsoft came up with a much more suitable shell and other mobile-first refinements) - Windows 11 is, after all, still a "desktop" OS - but some other version of Windows on that device might be more interesting. Otherwise, great job guys in devising a poll to engineer a result that doesn't really tell you much of anything.

The poll is about if people want Windows 11 on a Surface Duo because a developer recently got Windows 11 to run (with limits) on a Surface Duo. If we wanted to do a poll about a hypothetical version of Windows on a Surface Duo we would have made it. If the developer gets Andromeda to run on the Duo, we'll probably have another poll :) to see what people think.

It may be that many do want a Continuum feature, but keep in mind the usage data for Windows Phone. I belive market share peaked BEFORE they added Continuum in Windows 10. That would suggest Continuum is not the core appeal. The appeal for a mobile Windows to me is in the OS itself, not eliminating a separate station at my desk (I already use a desktop as my power station and 2 different laptops in addition to my Duo). Windows Phone/Mobile fixed many problems with both Android and iOS. I would admit Your Phone on Duo and Samsung, improvements to Office and OneDrive on Android, and the presumably permanent loss of Groove Music and Cortana as services eliminate many of those advantages.

The market share “peak”, if you can even call it that, was do to the cheap price of the L520. Those sales didn’t turn into repeat buyers as the operating system was so bad. Microsoft never put adequate effort into making it competitive. Even Gates admitted that.

Yeah, that's probably true. But market share is still the strongest indicator we have for overall appeal and price is one of the core P's in marketing strategy, so I don't think those points are mutually exclusive.

Short answer... Yes, it would be great. I don't think a mobile version of Windows is even on Microsoft's radar. Too many obstacles... The app gap. Oldest reason why we don't have Windows mobile today. The problem started over a decade ago and persists to this day. Mobile payment services. Microsoft began experimenting with a mobile wallet a few years ago, but stopped. Mobile payment services are complex and go beyond creating an app to store card details. You need to get major banks and payment services on board. Bing maps is not nearly as good as Google maps. Microsoft would have to throw everything they had at mapping to convince people they can do without Google maps. It would be hard to imagine that Microsoft is spending $ Billions trying to solve these issues, when they've adopted an OS that has already made the investment.

"The app gap. Oldest reason why we don't have Windows mobile today. The problem started over a decade ago and persists to this day. " Not, quite, Windows Mobile 6.x had plenty of apps (.cab files) but these were siloed within a phone manufacturers own store like Nokia's Ovi store for example. There were few key sites that were bursting with apps back in the day like freewarepocketpc and the like. However, Microsoft messed up the transition between WM6.x and Wp7.0 however that did not start the app gap. Microsoft's stubbornness is what started the app gap and I won't go into much detail about the other factors as they have been re-hashed adnauseam. Right now, things are different. Why? ARM64EC and containerisation of Win32 apps as well as none containerised Win32 in the store now. Microsoft can easily have devs re-package the none containerised win32 apps as long they automate the process and make it extremely easy to transition. Not to mention, UWA does still exist in one shape or form as it has to - as to enable a completely untethered experience Hololens must run UWAs both to reduce the amount of processing cycles (so no emulation) and prolong battery life. As there is a lot of limitations due to ergonomics, ease of use, health and safety when it comes to integrating batteries into a untethered headmounted device be it AR or VR or both. Reduced processing cycles means less heat whilst being more comfortable for the user as well as longer battery life at lower capacities. Which is why Hololens must run ARM for the foreseeable future - AMD nor Intel are nowhere near a complete x64 SOC. Things would have been different if Zilog or Mos Technology was around.. but that's another topic. In regards to apps, Microsoft is in a much better place now and all they need to is keep going in regards to Win32 containerisation and adding APIs to UWA so over time the WIn32 applications would be modernised to latest UWA APIs. This would be infinitely faster than the slow slog with android apps and trying to get them to scale for anything beyond the size of a tablet screen as UWP was built with scalability in mind.

Great points and insight. I'm not sure MS is following that strategy, but they could. I love your post here, TechFreak1!

Imagine, someone pull out Surface Duo from pocket running winform or WPF desktop apps on demand I still think there is market for such use case

I don’t even know what those are and I have been following tech for decades. That market doesn’t exist. After Googling them, you are crazy. There is very little market for Windows developers, let alone devices built specifically for Windows developers. This is one of the worst ideas ever.

There isn't or at least within 2 years this will be a thing of the past. With MAUI + Blazor folks will write native apps using web frameworks + .NET to target the current OS.

How about a new poll..Surface Duo running Android and Windows apps side by side...no more app gaps... I do not play or use GPU intensive apps. I do not need performance optimized Android apps.

I think Google will pull another spoilt toddler tantrum like they did when Microsoft created a Youtube app for WM but at a larger scale as Microsoft is now effectively just another android OEM. Especially, since they put a stop to dual booting and mind you Microsoft was in concert in stopping that effort too. If one was to speculate, perhaps it was to appease Google in allowing the Youtube app created by Microsoft to run without hindrance. But yeah, running Android and Windows apps side by side would only work if Google didn't get in the way. The way round that would be to run GMS apis and Windows apis side by side... but that would result in horrible battery life.

Good point. If Microsoft doesn't want to work for Google and develop a Windows Subsystem for Android, perhaps a viable approach would be to rely on streaming and optimize the existing Remote Desktop on Android so that it can take advantage of Duo's hardware features.

Not dual-booting, simply one screen Android App running on top of Windows 11, while another screen is a Windows App (e.g. WinForm, WPF, Blazor hybrid app etc.)

"I think Google will pull another spoilt toddler tantrum like they did when Microsoft created a Youtube app for WM but at a larger scale as Microsoft is now effectively just another android OEM" I totally disagree because Google is neither evil nor maniacal.
Now, If you say Google will release a feature update that ACCIDENTALLY kill / sabotage that effort....
I will say YES. for 2 reasons
1) It was a feature enhancement update.
2) Accidently is the key word and will not be fixed due to shortage of resources.

not on the duo, but definitely on a bigger, Neo type device

If Neo was Surface Go sized, it could work. Neo is too small for Windows.

In fact, you can now stream the full Windows experience to Duo using software like Remote Desktop and Moonlight.
I now stream my Laptop Studio to my Duo 2. The screen resolution, microphone, speakers, etc. all work fine, you can share storage and clipboard, and latency on the LAN is very low. However, it is in this experience that I find Windows to be less useful in a device like the Duo. Small screen touch devices are not suitable for full Windows because Windows productivity is highly dependent on the keyboard and mouse/touchpad. The Duo can of course be connected to keyboards and docking stations, but this almost cancels out its advantages for laptops. My point is that if Microsoft does intend to go ahead with the Duo 3 and make it a uniquely competitive product line like the Surface Pro, it does desperately need to gain a core competency in software to win a user base for the product. In terms of hardware, it already does: Surface pen, dual wide screens, and so on. But software-wise, what we've got so far is just a crippled version of Microsoft Launcher, and there are still many bugs. The Microsoft launcher on the Duo deserves more exclusive features than a normal Android phone, not less. So I hope Duo will continue to be Android based, but Microsoft should add features to the launcher it runs to take advantage of its hardware features. It could be something that allows a choice between Android and Windows at launch, or it could be something that allows Windows apps to run through a deeply customized Android OS (similar to the reverse of WSA, or call it ASW?). Or, just like we have Phone Link on Windows, optimize Remote Desktop for Duo's dual screens and become PC Link. The Duo's special hardware form factor would protect these exclusive features from being an easy gimmick for other phone manufacturers. Of course, as the comments above point out, as an Android OEM, Microsoft has to be concerned about Google, and dual-booting might not make Google happy. Relying on streaming is probably the simplest way around.

Windows 11 on this? For God's sake not! If it was Windows 10, I would jump for joy, but this premature Windows 11?
In fact, everything was lost by changing the management of Microsoft, and then changing the strategy by redirecting to Android applications, instead of using the code of applications written for iOS. Day by day I watch where the operating system is developing and day by day my desire to buy a MacBook increases, as heretical as it sounds. A few years ago, what dreams did I have ...

Windows 11 is empirically better than Windows 10 for touch (11 does everything 10 does for touch and more), which would presumably be important for a small device without a physical keyboard and mouse always attached. I have my criticisms of Windows 11, but for a small device, it's clearly stronger than 10.

Dual Boot Windows and Android? Yes.

+1 this needs to be in the options. or it needs to be powerful enough to run android apps.

In fact, I never want a Surface Duo. If someone gave it to me, I'd do the same thing with it that I did with an iPad Air that I won in some random drawing...I took it on a dive with me to the bottom of the lake and buried it.

If you get something free you don't want, you are allowed to give it away or sell it.

"If you get something free you don't want, you are allowed to give it away or sell it."
Why?
Just so you could kill his DRAMA, that's no fun.

reposted someone elses

If it works and is more stable than Android yes I would.
Windows is already implementing android apps on Windows (via the amazon store) and I think it will work.

Voted yes. If I could have a single telephony device that runs Android apps (through Windows 11) while on the go, but productivity full Windows applications while docked to mouse/keyboard/monitor, that would be my dream device.

Star Trek: Enterprise Theme Lyrics
https://youtu.be/cyyH4hnBavc It's been a long road
Getting from there to here
It's been a long time
But my time is finally near https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Courier
2009 https://youtu.be/pFQWc79TYcU 2019 Panos Panay: Surface Duo/Neo are examples of "industry pushing technology and technology pushing possibilities" 2022 Windows 11 & Andromeda OS? on Surface Duo 1 (Gustave Monce's DuoWOA github)
Jan2022 Andromeda demo => https://youtu.be/MmfsHI_NSwc Given TechFreak1 comments: "ARM64EC and containerisation of Win32 apps as well as none containerised Win32 in the store now." I choose to believe the possibilities of the 2009 vision of Microsoft Courier are finally near. References:
[1] Feb2020 What is Windows Core OS (WCOS)? https://beebom.com/windows-core-os-wcos-explained
[2] Sep2020 The secret history of Windows on Surface Duo https://www.windowscentral.com/surface-duo-andromeda-windows-core-o

The real poll should be Would you want Windows without Registry after 40 years

What apps do Android actually have. Google Play store with a lot apps no one really wants. Why not have to do is just rebrand Windows 10x cell it Windows 11x

What small touchscreen apps would Windows 11 bring that Android doesn’t have?

android is not good OS.

You have no answer? What apps would Windows bring to a small touchscreen that aren’t available on Android? That was the whole point of your comment, you cannot back it up?

That’s why I haven’t bought it. I don’t like android, I’ve use plenty, just pref iOS… AND Windows. :) If they made a duo windows version and then eventually brought out a single screen version many Windows Phone fans would be in Heaven. With dual screen or folding screen phones already multiple years of existence and still not popular, a single screen window phone still would be ideal for MORE people than just the duo would be. Definitely see the purpose of duo it’s just not for as many people as a single screen device is.

Not popular? The Fold 3 pre-order was near a million devices and Samsung is preparing for Fold 4 to be a huge launch. They are just getting started. I agree Microsoft should make a single screen phone. I think a stylish Surface phone could actually be a decent seller. I think there is potential for a premium Android device to seller in decent numbers, especially with the Surface name.

Only if it was dual boot, Android and Windows.

Why would you ever use Windows? There is nothing on Windows worth running on a 6” touchscreen that Android doesn’t have.

After a few days following the Win11onDuo It seems not trivial to get Windows 11 subsystem android running on surface duo.