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Will jilted Windows phone fans buy into Microsoft's mobile vision — or care?

Trust is the foundation for any relationship. Trust is built on mutual respect and predictability, trust can be hard to earn, and trust can be nearly impossible to restore when lost. Trust is key, in both personal relationships and those between a business and a customer. Like Microsoft and the forever-jilted Windows phone user.

Sadly, Microsoft has lost the confidence of many, if not most, current and former Windows phone users. Though there is skepticism about Microsoft's potential return to mobile, many ex-Windows phone users have already resolved never to embrace anything Microsoft brings to the mobile space.

The trust is gone. And that's bad news for Microsoft.

The Disconnect

Microsoft is a company with a history of in-fighting and poor team interaction.

This began to change under the "One Microsoft" initiative led by former CEO Steve Ballmer. Current CEO Satya Nadella has also worked to transform the company's culture from one plagued with fear of failure to one that embraces taking chances and learning from mistakes. During a recent Facebook Live broadcast one Microsoft employee called this idea "failing forward."

In fact, in a 2016 interview about Microsoft's cultural shift General Manager of Office Labs Chris Pratley, told Windows Central:

Now we're back to catering to the actual people who use our stuff, the goal is "customer love" and it is quite refreshing.

Given this apparently sound foundation, Microsoft's failure in mobile is exceedingly profound; but not because Windows phones failed in the market. Products fail. It is the manner in which Microsoft mishandled its dedicated customer base which did not reflect the consumer-focused mission to which the company claims to be espoused.

Building Trust

In 2010 Microsoft's Windows Phone 7 brought something unique to the mobile space. The bold marketing which accompanied the product's introduction conveyed Microsoft was serious about mobile. Consumers (though in small numbers) began passionately embracing Microsoft's take on mobile which was drastically different than Apple's and Google's.

The fluid Live Tile-based UI, deeply integrated social networks that merged with the OS and Photo's Hub, Rooms, hubs and more won over many users. Windows Phone was so impressive that the company's Ben Rudolph ran the popular "Smoked by Windows Phone" campaign where random people's iPhone's and Android phones were beaten by Windows phone's at various tasks. Rudolph even replaced the losers "inferior" phones with Windows phones. Was there really once that much pride and confidence in Windows phone?

With Microsoft's apparent full commitment to mobile backing our zeal, fans evangelized the platform and convinced others to try it. We endured the platforms shortcomings and lack of developer support confident that "the next update" or "next flagship" would perhaps level the playing field. We trusted Microsoft.

Losing Trust

We knew that Microsoft couldn't make the market and developers accept Windows phone, but we believed (or hoped) Microsoft would do all that it could to help it succeed. That expectation began fading from view as the reality of Microsoft's weak commitment became apparent.

Though we remained hopeful fans started giving voice to their discontent when they perceived early "betrayals" from Microsoft. Windows Phone's 7.5's leap to Windows Phone 8 stranded fans on devices that could not be upgraded. Windows Phone 7.8, which provided Windows Phone 8 features like resizable tiles, was a bone Microsoft tossed these abandoned users. Sadly, my HTC Titan on ATT never got the 7.8 upgrade.

We understand that Microsoft's move to Windows Phone 8 was a step toward OneCore and hardware requirements necessitated leaving some folks behind. Fans were angered nonetheless, and things didn't get better from there.

Windows Phone 8.1 removed most of the unique aspects of Windows Phone that won users over. For many, Microsoft's "progress" felt either like a bait-and-switch or an abandonment of its own vision. Users complained that Microsoft hooked us with a unique platform only to make it more like iPhone and Android over time.

Paradise Lost

Two casualties of change were the unique social network-integrated People and Photo's Hubs which became more like the functional, but aesthetically bland Contacts and Picture apps for iPhone and Android phones. Microsoft even made systemic UI changes (like hamburger menus) to accommodate app developers that never came.

Technically the eradication of Hubs and other features made updating separate apps easier but made Windows phones less "Windows phone." Enthusiast's feelings of betrayal are rooted in a perception that Microsoft abandoned its unique approach to mobile, and by default, those of us who embraced it.

If Microsoft couldn't stay true to its own unique approach to mobile, how could users remain confident in Microsoft's mobile efforts?

No Microsoft, we're not interested

Confidence inspires trust and people will follow those they trust. As Microsoft began exhibiting behavior that could be interpreted as lack of confidence in its own mobile platform the Windows phone fanbase became more vocal with its discontent.

Windows 10 Mobile and the Lumia's 950 and 950XL were poorly received.

Windows 10 Mobile and the Lumia's 950 and 950XL were poorly received.

As the OS became less fluid and less aesthetically "Windows phone" as it became more one OS on its way to OneCore, fans were also wondering where the flagships were. Rivals continued their yearly cadence of flagship releases while Microsoft seemed irrationally (to some) committed to flooding the market with low-end devices.

The long-term effect of Microsoft's low-end strategy

Where was the commitment to go head-to-head with high-end hardware? Did Microsoft doubt its own ability to compete? We must remember that for a time the Windows on phone didn't support the hardware rivals platforms supported. But what about when it did?

A Windows phone fan scorned

The lack of flagships resulted in Windows phones being ignored when it came time to compare the latest flagships.

With Windows phones (and its fans) increasingly becoming the joke of the industry and Microsoft's apparent lack of interest in combating the stigma, many users resolved that if Microsoft didn't care neither should they.

Where was the consumer love Microsoft boasted about? Why wasn't Microsoft putting its billons where its mouth is? The app Bridges were built, but Microsoft has done little to encourage their use. The retrenchment strategy left fans, particularly those in regions where Windows phones had respectable share, with little to no options.

Microsoft's focusing of Windows Mobile on the enterprise was a slap in the face to consumers who still loved the platform. Fan's wanted a phone. Microsoft responded, "No phone for you," with little effort to communicate a commitment to a committed base.

Microsoft: Where is everybody?

I've long advocated that Microsoft has a mobile strategy. Microsoft's Andromeda OS, one Windows platform, on a pocketable telephony-enabled PC with CSHell may be what's next. Here's the problem. Even if this device checks all the boxes, creates new boxes and checks those too, Microsoft has lost the trust of its vocal fanbase.

Does Microsoft still care about Windows phone fans?

Goodwill and word of mouth are more powerful and organic than structured marketing. A product endorsed by family or friends is more likely to be adopted than one that has only the one-sided support of a marketing campaign. Conversely a product condemned by family and friends receives a mark that is hard to erase. The condemnation that fans have laid on Microsoft and its smartphone efforts is bad not only for its future mobile efforts but for the company as a whole. These fans have lost trust in Microsoft.

If Microsoft reenters mobile, it will have to work hard to prove its commitment to its own mobile vision and the consumers it has spurned. A cutting-edge device won't suffice, a relationship is key. I'm reminded of Steve Urkel's persistent pursuit of Laura Winslow from the popular sitcom Family Matters. Urkel's unrelenting persistence and commitment finally won Laura's heart. Can Microsoft do the same for its former fans?

Or does the company's leadership consider the profoundly tiny market represented by Windows phone fans inconsequential to its future in mobile? If so, are they right?

Jason L Ward is a columnist at Windows Central. He provides unique big picture analysis of the complex world of Microsoft. Jason takes the small clues and gives you an insightful big picture perspective through storytelling that you won't find *anywhere* else. Seriously, this dude thinks outside the box. Follow him on Twitter at @JLTechWord. He's doing the "write" thing!

425 Comments
  • They have no mobile vision. For them to drop support Windows Phone so quickly doesn't sit well with me. I don't know much about "Andromeda" and I don't really see many articles about it. If it has the app support, I'd still give it a shot.
  • Andromeda is W10 baed so it would run all the Windows Store apps, web apps as well as progressive web apps which can only grow.  The rumored new pocket PC device will be targeting at the whole W10 user base rather than just the WP users.  It will probably be marketed as an 'always connected' All-in-One pocket PC rather than a smartphone.  If it comes with CShell, SD845, foldable screen, support for Windows Ink & pen, MR and phone features, it could be an attractive device for all the W10 users who can only grow.  OEMs should also be interested in building such a new W10 form factor which is far more versatile and convenient.
  • Yeah, the OEM's are just waiting with baited breath.
  • And this is also still years away from reality. By the time Microsoft actually executes, everyone else will have leap frogged way further ahead. People need to face it, this is just talk, and there will not be execution behind it.
  • That should be bated breath. Unless they're going fishing with their mouths.
  • Well, they should. An opportunity to open new product lines is always good for business.
  • Your assertion that the apps and the W10 users 'can only grow' is taking a lot for granted.
  • I don't know. A foldable phone just doesn't sound appealing to me. And OEMs will not be interested. Microsoft can make their own phone, but if they expect the OEMs to follow suit that doesn't seem like it will happen.
  • Whatever happened to Microsoft's claim they would reduce the number of phones to three per year (low/mid/high).  That simply fell off the earth and was never discussed again.  If I recall that came from Satya himself at a Spring conference.  Maybe Build?
  • "drop support windows phone so quickly"... The word "quickly" hardly applies here, as it's been a long, slow amd painful demise. 
  • "so quickly"?
    Please.
    Many years, many reboots and literally billions of dollars invested with little return. Do you know the definition of insanity? Because they demonstrated it for years. This is a business, not a hobby. Continuing down the some old road was asinine.
  • This is indeed a business and one that is moving inexorably towards the mobile arena. That's where Microsoft should have continued to invest, because without a presence in mobile they will be left with nothing but the dead end of the shrinking and increasingly irrelevent desktop/laptop market.
  • Are you aware that the app market is going to be 100 billion market very soon? So what's the problem in throwing few billions in that if you want to participate? Again, your comment would make a perfect sense if Microsoft gave up, but they haven't, they just pretend they can cut the cost and run the game, which is even more insane. Insanity has a lot of levels.
  • I love Surface products, and I trust the Surface line running Windows. I have a Lenovo laptop running Windows 10, and it works terrifically.. I have a Surface 3 running Windows 10, and if it fit in my pocket, made phone calls, and text, it would replace my 950...
    If MS aims to put a Surface PC in my pocket then I would trust it to be a great product, as Surface has always been.... This I can only say if MS were to make a pocketable mobile device under Surface branding, and developed by the Surface team. It's just good sense.
  • Personally I want to see MS produce something worth my while, but whatever they come out with the only sane approach has got to be 'wait and see'. 'Buy and trust' would be complete madness with Microsoft's history. If MS make it and don't trash it or keep removing features rather than completing them or try to support the competition rather than their own devices or try 'retrenching' anything or rework the concept every 5 minutes whilst excluding the current customer base or aggressively destroy their hardware manufacturing partners, once they prove they've turned over a new leaf, then and only then buy in to it. I want MS mixed reality for example, but I fully expect MS to pull another Nadella on it at some point so I'll have to wait and see. No way I'm paying to see promising stuff Nadellad to death before the year is out, and no way I'll recommend anyone else fall for the same old tricks. Not until MS prove their commitment FIRST. I used to foolishly trust and recommend Microsoft without the need for proof, but I've retrenched.
  • I think Microsoft's big future  Surface device will be a 7.9 inch screen "Surface Mini Tablet cell phone hybrid. That runs Wimdows 10 on ARM CPU software. This New "Surface Mini" will run Windows 10 store apps which are incresing in number. It will have  'Contiuum-2 software"  so you can hook it up to a larger screen.  This is the logical Surface device for Microsoft to make because it's sales strength  in the Mobile world is in Tablet 2 in 1 devices and the new Surface Laptop (which will get better) not smart phones. this device wont be for everyone but enough of them will be bought for Microsoft to make a profit off of selling them
  • I wonder how many would agree to look completely like idiots with a 7.9" device at their ears talking to someone, with no MOBILE APPS!!! MOBILE, fanboy, you know what that means?? touch friendly...? those that devs do not give a damn for the windows store?
  • Your mindset is stuck in 2010..
    Nobody even holds their 5.5" phones to thier ears anymore, and nobody complains about not having mobile apps on thier PC.... Expand your thinking.
  • And that's why you don't work in the product development team at Microsoft :D
  • yeah... make a call with an 8 inch Tablet and the people will think you are crazy
  • "people will think you're crazy" SMDH
    Right. And, I guess all those people making calls with thier Apple supplied ear pods are bat **** crazy.🙄🙄🙄
  • No but the option to having my deivce to my ear and not look like a total ****** with a book held to your head is what is needed.
  • 1. It must fit in a standard shirt or jeans pocket 2. People use an ipad as a camera. Yes they look ridiculous, but they do it 3. I make 5 calls a month, but I type / message and browse all day   Allowing for all that, I still think there's a 6 inch size limit to a "pocket" device. Anything bigger becomes too big to carry, and it then becomes snappable unless cared for. How are you supposed to carry an 8 inch device into a nightclub, which is needed so that you can catch an uber home afterwards?  They MUST get android apps running, seamlessly, on Windows Phone. Otherwise, when my 950XL dies I'm moving to Android on Nokia.
  • Logical, to say the least... More so, besides turning a huge profit, a device as the one you mentioned would convince other OEM'S to take a shot as well. It's all about keeping Windows relevant in the future. MS has no choice but to put Windows on a mobile device. They have no choice but to make your device. No other choice, period.
  • I for one would definitely welcome a pocket size windows PC with full windows functionality.  I can do anything I want on my windows laptop,  banking,  graphics, video,  ALL!  I never need any app to find my files or do any functions. Both iOS and android do not have basic OS functionality.  All the apps available for android and apple are repetitive and produced by sources I cannot trust- I cannot allow some "developer " to have access to my banking,  files,  contacts,  etc. I want a trusted OS manufacturer to provide me with environment that I can trust.  If I could have a full windows device with telephone functionality including LTE for all bands and ready for gigabit - I would immediately go for it!  Hope this device and OS is coming soon.   
  • I have a Windows 10 mobile and it regularly gets updated, takes wonderful pictures and does everything I expect of it.  How long do Android mobiles get updated however expensive?  The fact is android and iphone have become boring as the iphone x looks more like a Samsung.  If a new Windows mobile comes along I will be happy to upgrade given the service my current mobile has given me.
  • True. These supposedly "dead" phones still get a lot of support, more than most Android phones (not to speak of iPhones with their literal programmed obsolescence).
  • How does a phone supported for 5 years fall under anything related to obsolescence?
  • What´s the obsession with updates? My Moto X2 was lastly updated like a year ago and runs perfect, I don´t need upates that may ruin it. I had a working Lumia 950 but one of the latest updates a couple of months ago left it resetting continuously
  • Why don't we wait to see of something will even come up from them before we start caring?
  • For How long???! Until 2020?!!!
  • Yeah, it makes sense that way than day dreaming and wishful thinking.
  • The waiting part... is the day dreaming!
  • That soon? :)
  • MS could have the best phone, the best mobile OS, and big ticket apps. But if there's no mass marketing, it's destined to fail.
  • I'm of the same opinion as netmann here... 'For how long???!' There are those of us deeply invested in the ecosystem and don't see a future with competitor devices no matter if Microsoft (I still don't believe I saw this), recommend Android or iOS as phones to go with.  I want and need a Windows based phone device I can trust in, can go to an online or retails store and buy, and recommend to family and friends as the alternative device to go with if you want a simple to use, synched device with features that surpass other flagships or devices from the others. We had this and then as Jason brought up somewhat in the article we lost our uniqueness and exclusive features that had the potential to draw consumers to the device. Now there is nothing. I have a brother-in-law that has had his most recent 650 screen die on him, and what is he able to buy? Nothing Windows related unless he gets one on eBay or similar. If Microsoft get serious about a mobile solution they HAVE to move quicker than what they have been in innovation and implementation, bring uniqueness back to the fold, quality components (not just 'that will do'), devices that we can be proud of using and know that these new devices are unique and bring alternative to the big 2 for those that really could not be concerned with Google monopoly, or Apple's massive pricepoints. Do I want a cheap device? No. I want a reliable device, with quality of which I'm prepared to realistically pay, but I also want an ecosystem that will endure and grow in unique features and outstanding services as it moves forward to improve.  
  • Actually, what you need is to get out a bit and enjoy life. Microsoft ain't coming back with a phone any time soon so get yourself an Android and move on. Enjoy what's available now. Then one day in the future, if Microsoft ever does come up with a viable alternative to the big two, you can buy one. In the end they're only phones. It's not exactly life and death is it? People here need to get some perspective.
  • They need to move quick, sure. But they also need to hit hard with their comeback. Personally I wouldn't dislike if they come with something else before the Surface Phone, something that's in the middle of the next step after Lumias and before the whole new paradigm of SP. I'm thinking they might release a non-foldable screen device, more traditional and less expensive, but with new software developments powering it, like CShell and Andromeda and whatnot. VR might play a big role into this too, and TBH, I have a hunch that they might announce something VR AND mobile related on the october event. Wouldn't that be a great placement for the holiday season? But I wonder whether this would be detrimental to Microsoft's strategy. And it's a hard balance to reach. I believe MS do know they're hurting their fan base by delaying the coming of their savior device, which WILL come, but timing is also a problem. I'll wait, sure, I have no problem in hunting another W10M device if this one dies, but most people won't wait, can't wait.
  • They're too late to the party. And I don't trust them anymore.
  • I had to switch, although I don't like Android and iOS. The bad thing for MS is that I hardly use MS services anymore. By keeping complete silence former fans are getting very very angry. I really think Ms should show some understanding for those customers.  
  • It's a similar story for me. I switched from a Lumia 950 XL to a Sony Xperia XZ Premium just last week. There are no Microsoft Maps so I've gone back to Here. It's tough to really integrate Microsoft services and I've tried as much as I could. Cortana is set as the default assistant. I've got Word and its friends and Arrow Launcher. But I'm tempted to start using Google Assistant as the notifications it does provide seem really in-tune with what I'm doing. I honestly don't care what their next mobile device is; I'll wait and see how it takes off before considering it. Microsoft has a difficult task ahead. As they bleed Windows Phone users, those users'll start moving away from Microsoft's services. I had devices like the Compaq iPaq and then an HTC HD2, HD7, Titan, Lumia 920, 640, 830, and 950 XL. With each interation, Microsoft removed things that made Windows Phone 7 so good. Hubs, panorama menus, Zune, etc. I no longer have the inclination to bother with Microsoft.
  • I'm in this boat.  In fact, I reckon I've worked through the same list of MS devices as well.  Later today my pre-ordered Note 8 is arriving, at which stage I'm officially in the Android camp.  As a dedicated MS developer, this really smarts.  I feel incredibly let down.  But with tools like Xamarin allowing simple cross-platform development, I can't justify staying with a failing mobile ecosystem.  This bites Microsoft on 3 fronts: they lose a Windows Phone advocate, they lose a UWP developer, and there's a fair chance I'll now investigate other offerings, e.g. Google Drive, Calendar etc. as well, whereas I previously wouldn't have imagined moving away from the integration offered by OneDrive etc. Got the "would you recommend this version to friends and collegues" message on my phone again this morning.  I'm usually really positive with my answer ... but I think that's probably going to change, as my 950XL is relegated to "dust it off, charge it up and test that web app on the mobile Edge browser" status.
  • Cortana still isn't available in the Netherlands, that's where Jan comes from too. Siri is, and google assistant is in English. Only Microsoft is being frantic about the EU borders...
  • I'm using Cortana set to en-GB while my region is set to Belgium. I think you have to manage to turn her on first, but then in the settings you can set the region seperately from your device settings.
  • Sure but I want my settings in my own language not in english
  • Cortana compared to Google Assistent is simply crap! a piece of crap...
  • They think they will throw their own party... Well, good luck to them, but unless they will have free exchange of old failed WPs to that new great device, I ain't coming... 4 WPs is enough for me. Also, it is hillarious how this website doesnt work on Edge and the UWP app comment section doesnt post comments... I'm just sayin, website about WIndows doesnt work on Windows default browser, the irony!
  • Heck, the OneDrive website isn't working right with Edge for me today. Slowly moving on to Chrome which isn't having any problems with it. Do I want another phone made by MS?? Probably not anymore. Fool me once shame on you, Fool me twice shame on me, Fool me three times, I'm beginning to feel like an idiot. 
  • I'm big on MS, but the last couple months has been such a burn. I went back to the iPhone 6 when my 950XL had an issue with text notifications and last week I ordered the iPhone 8 Plus. Even if they release a Surface Phone next year, I may have trouble coming back - I've lost trust. Still the better platform, but without app support and committment from MS, it'll likely end up failing.
  • I think Android and iOS party is already Over, i dont see any invoation in Google's OS or Apple's, THIS is the right time for MSFT to throw their party, but they wont, they just wont, ANDROMEDA OS is the new innovation but MSFT is taking too much time, what if Apple or Google comes up with somthing like that sooner. WHAT THEN!!!  ----Dissappointed MSFT FAN----
  • True... This model is showing it's age, and only those with vision can see that.
  • Nasir, agreed. Look at VR/AR... Microsoft arguably hit the ground running when they surprised all by showing off Hololens, but what is going on with that reality... Android, Apple and others have made significant inroads into this technology and what is happening to this cutting edge Microsoft product ... it is flailing around not doing much at all and again being surpassed by others - very quickly! Microsoft needs to get rid of some of their beaurocracy or whatever it is slowing this innovation to implementation process down to slower than a snail pace. I'm still hoping for a sound mobile strategy but I'm afraid I'll be long gone dead by the time the Microsoft cogs get their act in gear.
  • The difference with VR/AR is that while Google and especially Apple have taken the quicker path to users, that's the shallowest implementation too. Gimmicky, a toy. Meanwhile MS did have the guts to build what is a prototype of how the future is going to be, the Hololens, backed by a system wide framework, and is siding with the industries to create a true revolution. Sure, anyone can create an app that lets you superimpose 3D models to the camera footage, and to be frank it's been around for some time. Microsoft are doing something deeper. As an example, just today in my twitter feed one guys was showing some game or fun gimmick in their ARKit thing, while Microsoft was promoting their colaboration in car design with freakin' FORD, using the Hololens. That's the difference.
  • you obviously havent noticed Asus, Acer, Dell, HP and Lenovo are releasing headsets for MS Mixed Reality
  • You can't be late with technology... The TV was around 50 years before Samsung got in the mix, and Sony used to rule that market 10 years ago... Only a fool would think that times don't change, and iDroid is the end when it comes to mobile technology from here on out. You never know who will have the market in the future. You can't rule anyone out. Could be HTC, or Red DC, or even Nokia. Could be a new company that doesn't exist yet. Could be MS, or Sony. Could be Amazon, Ford, GM, Toyota. Open your mind. MS only missed out on the tip of the iceberg, a tip that will be irrelevant in the future; smartphones with tiny screens, and their proprietary, limited, mobile apps. If you think that will always be the way then think again. MS isn't late. Nobody is late, and there's always a chance for anyone to bring something different to consumers. Saying MS is too late is to claim you know what the future holds, and I seriously doubt if you do.
  • They might develop the best system in the future, but who will pay €800+ for anything that might not be supported a year later? I bought a droid a month ago, and i'm amazed that even theor own apps actually work better with more features on this platform. I for one am not likely to switch back!
  • It doesn't matter if you don't trust Microsoft. It doesn't matter if any of us never buy a MS product ever again.... We all add up to just a fraction of a drop in the bucket of potential customers. MS can wipe the slate clean with us, and the relative few average consumers who had a negative experience with WP, and move on... As a matter of fact, that's exactly what they're doing, and nobody significant will hold MS accountable for WP.
    Retrenchment sucks in many ways, but overall it's probably the most necessary move MS has to do so they can have a mobile future, and sell a great product without bad perception of it. In order for MS to get anything failed close to the Surface line they must separate the name as far away as possible, and separating pissed customers is part of that process. I know this, and that's why I never boast about how I never gonna trust MS again. What does it matter?
  • I like what you say. It's true, nobody can predict the future, and also dinosaurs won't live forever. It's just the way it is.
  • I like tacos😃😃😃
  • You can be late in a specific market. Sadly, Microsoft has lost in smartphone market and they won't be able to make a comeback, however hard they try. But, what MS is  doing incredibly well lately is introducing new form-factors or setting the propper standatrs for existing ones. They can pioner in something new or comepletly reinvent the concepts of a certain devices.
    Whatever they are going to do, I hope they will market the sh*t out of it, because as of now, having a Surface Something equals being one of a few hardcore MS fans, at least where I live in. For e.g., Pixels in android world are not making any success, when compared to rival Samsung or, well, Apple. A regular folk won't even know about it, when asked.
    And that's just a very, very, very clean, beautiful and simply working-whatever-what phone I wish more people, including myself, had. There are no innovations in this device, it is made by a famous, trusted brand and no one buys it (well, relatively). And now imagine investing so much money in something nobody would buy, even if this device is not just "cool and nerdy", but a total gamechanger in how people do their jobs, communicate, entertain themselves.
    My point is that Microsoft has to invent something new, something people would want and let those people know, that they want it badly.
  • Actually, the smartphone market isn't a done deal between Apple and Google.. Smartphones aren't going anywhere for the foreseeable future. That means that 5-10-20 years from now many companies will rise, and fall, in the literal smartphone market. iDroid, just as any other company, is not guaranteed dominance for eternity. It would be foolish to think so. But, even MS has a chance at selling a relevant smartphone in the (not near) future. Some of you guys sound like you're young, and haven't been around long enough to see major shifts in industry. Never say never with technology, and politics.... There's a chance a Ultramoble Surface device, if well received, could be MS's way back into the smartphone (segment) market... I'm still not totally convinced MS is done with the smartphone segment indefinitely. I think they have long-term plans.
    ......
    But, the thing I think most funny is iDroid fans foolishly believe that in 2067 the world is still gonna be waiting on the next Galaxy, and the next iPhone... 😂😂😂 Times change. Open your minds.
  • There are different types of technology. Microsoft dominates the desktop technologies for almost 40 years, and there is no sign for it to end up anytime soon, so yes many competitors came too late and had no chance. While TVs and desktops are probably on the opposiste spectrum regarding this, I would say that mobile is more like the desktop than TV when you talk about this.
  • There's no vision.
  • Ummm, that's not proven to be true... If Jason is indeed right about MS's lengthy mobile tactic,,, then that would prove great vision. We just need him to be right... Fortunately, this guy knows more than he admits. The entire WC staff does. That's why they let these articles play out. Think about it.
  • Think about it. They allow these articles because Microsoft and Windows do not generate news anymore. They need something to fill the page. And one thing Jason Ward does well is fill a page with hopes and dreams. 
  • Lol. That made me laugh. Lol. And, I'm in public, so that was funny. 😂😂😂
  • Ever heard the expression "you can't prove a negative?" Well, this is just about as close as can be.
  • Still got a 1520 and 950xl, the latter's build quality and performance is way worse than my 1520's which is enough to tell how little Microsoft focused on quality on its recent flagships.
    The 8.x aesthetics are gone, everything uses simple animations and somehow still manages to hang and crash
    It's just sad
  • I agree fully 👍my best, so far, phone was 1520 then came the plastic crap 950 XL expensive as all other flagships leading to the big flop. Then came the nosupport vision and silence. MS is so drunk right now when talking about mobile that there are no consumer base to talk about left. A pricy surface phone will kill it completely off. I'm so happy with my Nokia 6 and android right now so there is a minimal chance returning back after 7 years with windows phones.
  • Man you are so right, L1520 was truely the BEST WP. MSFT has made us Fans a joke among android/iOS users. i have switched too but miss my L1520.
  • I purchased the Nokia Lumia Icon the minute it was available in early 2014 and I have been using it happily ever since.  It has been upgraded from Windows 8 to 8.1 to 10.  The one issue I have with it is that the orientation flip doesn't work consistently for photos and videos but that is not a major concern for me.  When I need that feature to work, I do a shutdown and restart and the problem is usually solved.  That said, it's clear that I will have to change my phone...eventually. That will be a sad day for me if there is no Microsoft option to pick from.
  • To me, it all comes down to the big reveal. If MS shows up and reveals a concise compelling plan that they "just couldn't tell" us. And sells it with confidence, then I'm in. If the continue to prove themselves in committed, and keep mobile on the back burner, then I'll look elsewhere when my Elite x3 dies.
  • The big silence from MS continues like it did 1,5 years ago when Mr Myerson decleared "no support for phones"
  • I've been using Windows Phone from the beginning, but I just ordered my first Android phone. It's over. Microsoft has definitely lost loyalty from me, I'll keep using their services which I'm deeply entrenched in (oultook, onedrive, office, etc), but if MS services start compromising my experience I'll switch completely over to the google ecosystem. I used to despise google, but at least their stuff works and they are improving it.
  • Same with me. My new android phone (oneplus 5) arrived last week.
  • Microsoft did not really "lose" Windows Phone users/customers. Microsoft kicked them out. That's what it is, practically.
    A kick in the back side, plain and simple. .  
  • Exactly what my comments would be. I went from Lumia 521, 810, 925, 735 to my Icon. Finally went to Motorola Moto Z Play and have been pleased with the massive selection of quality third party apps. Microsoft will have to do something groundbreaking for me to come back. I'll continue to use their services as I am also deeply entrenched and my employer insists on it. Since they are paying I'll go along. That might be the only thing that holds me to any Microsoft products at all. Google devices and services are looking better and better everyday. I don't feel abandoned like I did with the Lumia 810 fiasco and the dearth of any decent third-party apps. Microsoft if you're bringing something it better be damn spectacular.
  • "Surface Phone" in 2025.
  • Lol, you are optimistic
  • It'll be on an actual surface. Lol
  • IT"S NOT A PHONE! it's a pocketable device with telephony. So in otherwords. It sounds like a duck, looks like a duck, and walks like a duck... but it's not a duck, it's a... What are we talking about again? Oh a phone... i mean, what's a more awkward way of saying phone so i can finish this thought? It's like Microsoft can't say voldemorte because of all the bad that has happened. 
  • I haven't lost the faith, yet. Still rockin' my 950xl without issue.
  •   After some update (insider fast) my Lumia 950 does not focus any more.    
  • I had to drop out... My 1520 couldn't handle the strain of almost daily updates. I finally bought the 950XL.. Disappointed with it compared to the 1520.
  • Lumia 950 is like new.. Boy, if I only had a few apps the experience would be flawless now that WM10 works well.
  • I remember back in WP7/8 days.  There was the best Facebook app ever created.  It was fluid, fast and awesome.  Metro design was great. http://blogswin.blob.core.windows.net/win/sites/2/2012/02/6114.FacebookFakePano10_5F00_551517FF.png Fire or demote upper management.  They are the problem.
  • Yes, I still remember the original WP Facebook app, working so smooth and so fine on my Lumia 520, while the official FB app lag like hell on Android with the same specs. Then Microsoft kill it with the stupid new Facebook app, and the music app, and the photo app, and almost any app that make WP outstanding.
  • Not reading the same article for the hundredth time.  Just dropping in to say "nope", to answer the headline.  I'll be sticking with Android now.  Though I do miss proper Cortana integration.
  • I used to work for Micrsoft. I embraced their Windows Phone platform being an early adoter. Am I still on Windows Phone? No, on Android now. Will I try it again? Yes. My home is a Microsoft Eco-System. The only saving grace now for Android, for me, was the Creators Update that allows me to get phone notifications on my PC's (thanks Cortana too). If they do this RIGHT, this shift will be a HUGE move to getting people to come back and new people to try again. Now, I did say they had to do this RIGHT. There are many suggestions as to what would be the right move, but I think the key factor in this will be tying all of the Microsoft Windows Platform Devices into one big interconnected system. Mobile Phone rings, I am playing on my XBox One, I have my headset on, let me answer my phone on my XBox without having to pause and reach for my phone (or in some situations, you cannot pause). Same with PC. If you TRUELY want to tie it all together, have the same code base, the aim for the fences and DO IT!! They MUST hit it out of the part from the get-go to really get their place back in the market and then grow from there. Skype for Business is a perfect example when companies embrace the enitrety of the platform. Right now, my work phone is a "Skype Enabled" phone. This means that I have a desk phone that is tied into my SfB login as well as a headset for my laptop because I can use the app and a headset to make/get calls on my work laptop. Oh, I also have it on my cell phone (you can have simultaneous rings or forwarding turned on, or answer in the app) that allows me to take work calls with me everywhere. This is great if you are not at your desk, but are watiing for an important call. Did MS Screw up with the way they treated Windows Phone adopters? Yes, there is nodoubt about it. Are they worth giving another hot? Well, I'll reserve judgement, for now, based on what they are bringing to the table.
  • Don't know what your job was at MS, but how do you estimate the chances of them getting it right this time?
  • I remember you from way back helping out in the forums when Cortana was just getting started. You were so helpful and excited (like many of us im sure at the time) about the things that were coming. Sucks (but is understandable) to hear you using an Android now. 
  • Sadly, however, Skype for Business on Windows 10 Mobile is still NOT a UWP app, so you cannot use it in Continuum.
  • MS made phones for americans but the market were in Europe with over 10% marketshare recieving much less feature like cortana, many region specific apps and so on. There were the first kill. You just dont mess with loyal people that saw potential in windows phone. People including me have "invested" several thousand of euros to just see MS killing it completely off. So satisfied what Nokia 6 delivers
  • Indeed. WP was quite successful in Europe, but Microsoft only cared about the US... Pretty much like Bing.
  • "Success" in Europe didn't translate into large sales numbers and involved only low end devices. It wasn't sustainable. A slight increase in sales quickly peaked after the L520 and dropped immediately when those buyers weren't interested in upgrading to the new Windows phones. There was no future in Europe. Nokia ran for a reason.
  • @hellstrm_robert, @Sargon_Aelther As a WP user here in the U.S., Microsoft didn't care about us here much either. We might have not had any regional software restrictions, but the biggest carrier here in the U.S. (with about 1/3 the U.S. population) never got any phones past the Lumia Icon (929). So A LOT of us didn't have any access to hardware either.
  • Same with South America, they were BIG around here, you still see a lot of Lumias, 635s and 640s mainly, a lot of 1020s too, around here. But they're mostly people who don't change their phones too often. The 950 and XL were supposed to be released domestically, but I'm sure that the platform deflation scared them away. That was the worst sign of the state of the platform back when the 950 was released. I had to buy mine as an import.
  • Before Microsoft brings anything to the table that is worth discussing
    the market has moved on beyond recognition. Microsoft is a lame horse in certain areas.
    Just look at Cortana. Nowhere to be seen or used.
    The world uses Alexa.  Speakers with Cortana?
    Before Microsoft even gets going 
    the competition is already EOLing a product generation. Competition is running circles around a smug Microsoft. .  
  •  thank you for your insight. Your vision is similar to mine, just annoyed how long it takes. Those complaining about losing trust, maybe you're just using the wrong platform, expecting it to be something else it isn't.  it's far from perfect, but I'm getting plenty done on my 950XL and 650. Apps I need for work are only used once a week or two on my company iphone6s and it's not for productive work stuff, the apps are more just for administrative items that take away from my productive time.  The live tiles really help my day. Give me a large vertical tile already! Also give me a foldable that closes to the size like a 950xl please :)  what annoys me more is that this Windows site is unable to deliver a good Edge experience on mobile nor is the app all that great  
  • If they come out with something that will improve my life day to day over other options then yes they have a chance. They obviously won't win on having unique integration within their ecosystem as they've extended that out to Apple and Android already... so it would have to be a game changer
  • Totally not interested in whatever they want to do in mobile. I hung on for too long (about 2 years to the day since I switched, after a long series of Windows phones going back to WM 6.0). I don't care even if a Surface Phone came with an unicorn delivery. Well OK I'd have to get one then just so my daughter can see an unicorn. And then return the phone.
  • Very funny, funny guy. You know you'd be all over a Surface Phone if one came out. Lol. So many nay sayer here would.
  • My trust problem really isnt with Microsoft. They have put out some great products and I bought them because they were great products.  My problem is that I dont think the market cares about anything Microsoft does, or worse the distrust MS to the point that they will not give any mobile product MS comes out with a shot. They could create a mobile device that cures cancer and generated cash into your bank account and everyone would just wait for Google and Apple to do it. Nothing MS tries in mobile will sell, and thus will not get developer support. I feel like the market has clearly spoken. You dominate our desktops and we will never let you do the same with our phones - we dont care how good it is, we're not buying it.  I would love for them to prove me wrong and make something everyone gets excited about enough to buy and generate developer interest. Until I see those kinds of results, I'm out. 
  • I think this might be the biggest issue. They really need to rebrand and distance themselves from the past.
  • NONONONONONONO... REBRANDING DOESN'T WORK.  Look at Edge, better than Explorer but still losing Market Share.  They need to be consistant and build off what they have rather than keep re-booting.  The problem is that each iteration of windows phone dropped support for alot of customers.  Some had pretty new phones.  Unless it was completely impossible, they should have brought old phones forward as long as physically possible.  Even if that meant some features wouldn't be supported in older handsets.  They need to embrace and extend thier ecosystem.  Windows should be EVERYWHERE.  They should be in cars, smart homes, tvs beyond xbox, smart speakers, watches, glasses, everywhere.  They should support as much as possible.  They need to embrace bridges from iOS, MacOS, Android, x86, x64, Linux, Web, and everywhere with very little to no rework required, but they also need to make it stupid easy to convert it to a native UWP by supporting Java and Swift as languages for the CLR and creating a truly universal app platform that can use Java, Swift, C#, F# Visual Basic, C, C++, Objective C, Javascript, WebAssembly, HTML/CSS, XAML.  Developers and Users couldn't ignore a platform like that.  It wouldn't happen overnight but they would gain enough market share to be a strong competitor.
  • If you think someone would trust their car or home to run windows tech you are clearly dreaming...maybe the 0.1% fanboys would do it...as long as Nadella and his zero quality plans are in place...no thanks MS
  • I think you would be amazed to see how many cars actually run on a propietary MS developed system......
  • I agree, rebranding doesnt work. Everyone still knows its Microsoft. You cant just change the name. 
    Being consistent is good, but it also doesnt work. If the market isnt buying what you're putting out, you have to be nible, switch it up and keep trying different angles to find something that gains traction. I do think they erred too far on the nible side - constantly reinventing hurt more than it helped in hindsight.  I just dont see a path forward for them. I hope they can figure it out, but the bias is strong in the market. People just dont want anything Microsoft on their phone. 
  • This article tooks some of the words from my conversation this morning!!! We had an impromptu IT conversation about Microsoft this morning as a coworker just discovered Groove music, OneDrive's Music folder, using Continuum and more and thinks they are amazing. After I ranted for about 15 minutes, basically about everything in this article, without seeing this article, I ended with saying "Well...if Microsoft doesn't care, I have to learn not to care." Ridiculous. Jason, you are absolutely correct. I am still going to the Ignite conference and will be at the Insider Roundtables as well but I am less enthused at this point, than I have ever been in my entire life. It definitely feels like one huge bait and switch. I've always had Android and iOS phones but Windows Phone as an OS was truly a unique user experience that has been stripped away into a former shell of itself and a lesser version of Windows 10. Either way, I still prefer it to Android and iOS which makes the lack of care from Microsoft all the more painful. I almost wish that they would have let their phone aspirations die with Windows Mobile and never created Windows Phone 7 and everything afterwards than to get in a, as you say, relationship with the Microsoft Account, Live Tiles and UWP dreams. Oh well....I'll try not to be "that guy" asking Windows 10 Mobile and Windows for phones quesitons every day in every session at Ignite.  
  • I was a loyal and loud Microsoft mobile fan since my days with the L920, then the L950. I don't trust Microsoft anymore after my Windows mobile experience over the years. IF they release something I will be curious, but I won't be taking the plunge into a new mobile device.
  • Exactly. For at least 2 years I will not buy anything MSFT will come up in mobile landscape, cause we all know that in 2 years they will "retrench" from it :-) If the new vision will be surviving for more than 3 years I will begin considering it, CAUTIOUSLY.
  • I trust microsoft even more now, so its the opposite. I ONLY buy microsoft products,surface, xbox 360, computers with windows 10 (even though its not that great).   for me windows 7.8 phones always worked, and i saw no point in going to apple or android which are much worse choices, as they don't offer the features or work in any kind of intuitive manner.
  • Clicking on icons with squares around them is so much more intuitive.
  • A year ago every windows phone fan has made up his/her own windows phone vision and by now given up on it;")
  • That's so sad!
  • not me. still using windows phone 7.8 later -1
  • Not me. I'm using my Lumia 950XL and loving every minute! Others just can't compete.
  • Hi Jason, Nice article, yes I'll care and buy into it probably.  You'll notice I left you a very nice lengthy reply on your phone situation the other day too :)
  • Yes you did!😉👍🏿 Thanks. I noticed your comment. I'll likely be around for what Microsft bring next as well. I've been burned like everyone else, but given what they can do with thier resources, platform ecosystem I'd really like to see things comw together. We'll see😎
  • i haven't been burned in the least. for me things have improved. so i don't see the point in switching. later -1
  • Surface is a great product, and we ALREADY buy those happily. Why would MS adding telephony capabilities to a Surface product all of the sudden turn us away????🤔🤔🤔🤔
    Lol. Case closed.
  • Next article needs to be..
    " We Already Love Surface Products. What Would Having A Mobile Surface Device Bring, Or Leave US Without, In 2018, With MS's Current Ecosystem?""
    .......
    I bet an analysis of this would show many more pros, than cons.
    Pros: 1k, and counting.
    Cons: No Mobile apps.
  • Even if they come out with a great vision and a great device, it won't win me over. Neither will its successor. I need to see a third device, demonstrating their commitment to continue and improve the product line, and then I'll consider going back to them.
  • I'm happy with my L950 :) Haven't lost my faith in Windows Phone.
  • I will.
  • We have been down this road before. Microsoft promised us that they were building a road we could travel to a better future and we followed. But Microsoft bailed on us and on that future; They didn't close the road they had sent us down; they just stopped building the road when they came to a ravine. And then they didn't tell the travellers for the longest time. Instead, they were silent or made conflicting or ambiguous statements. Was it too much to expect to be told that a bridge is out ahead and it will not be rebuilt? And when customers complained and asked to hold Microsoft to its promises, they were answered with condescension, eye-rolling and ridicule as if they were problem and dim for insisting on an accountability. So when Microsoft next asks its customer to follow down this new road?
  • Just came here for the comments 🤨
  • "Paraise Lost" "Two casualties of change were the unique social network-integrated People and Photo's Hubs which became more like the functional, but aesthetically bland Contacts and Picture apps for iPhone and Android phones. Microsoft even made systemic UI changes (like hamburger menus) to accommodate app developers that never came. Technically the eradication of Hubs and other features made updating separate apps easier but made Windows phones less "Windows phone." Enthusiast's feelings of betrayal are rooted in a perception that Microsoft abandoned its unique approach to mobile, and by default, those of us who embraced it." ^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^ What was so beautiful and unique about Windows Phone has basically been torn out!  Microsoft took the soul out of their mobile OS.  The result a bland still somewhat unique OS just to appease Android users.  There's nothing to abandon.  Where is there to go?  Worst (iPhone) and Crappier (Android).  I'll sit patiently until Microsoft expressly says they will no longer support a mobile phone. 
  • The way I see it, if iDroid fans aren't going to switch to your mobile OS then why not make it completely unique, while still having a synergetic design with W10. You can still have hamburger menus with a panoramic OS.
  • Precisely!  If those other fans aren't going to move to your OS you might as well make it unique.  The panoramic feature was just beautiful to me.  Also, don't you miss the Nokia apps?  I'm telling you, it's as if Microsoft is truely trying to kill their own product.  I don't give me that "insider" crap.  That is just a huge beta system.  And really nothing to show from it.  I mean, I visited a Microsoft Store last week in Oklahoma and not one, I mean not one phone to see.  SMDH!  Sad!
  • Drop me a like if you could use a PC in the pocket 🤗
  • That sounds kinda funny
  • I have a computer I can see in my pocket now  Lumia950XL Reinstitute it    
  • Welcome to the WWWV - Ward's Weekly Windows Vision 😉
  • Like many others here, I would really want to wait a generation or two to see how Microsoft would support anything thing new they threw out there no matter how good they made something. Ironically, if most of us waited a while to see how Microsoft would support thier new product, it would just show Microsoft that there isnt any support and it would be cancelled again. Microsoft, this is why you have to keep your core fans happy, they are the ones that will buy your first run products and let you improve on them for the second run where the general population will adopt it after they see improvement and support. No core fans=no first run product demand=low sales=microsoft "retrechment"  
  • They stopped caring, so I stopped caring. It's that simple. I've moved on and probably won't be back.
  • That was thier plan. Mission accomplished. Thanks for your service.
  • I'm really hoping that Microsoft comes up with something truly revolutionary.  I love my Lumia 950, and I really dislike iOS and Android.
  • That's the bottom line for fans of Windows on mobile devices.
    This is really the only comment here that matters.
  • I've dumped thousands into the MS ecosystem: Xboxes, multiple w8 and 10 tablets, surface pro, laptops, multiple WP's, onedrive, office 360, dozens of Groove purchases, zune, band 2's, etc... I've been a vocal supporter for all things MS; from the Lumia Blink feature to Windows Hello to ellipses to cortana to the Flickr.com pureview photo group. MS lack of commitment, execution, parity, and enthusiasm drove me away. * soon * I'm done, and I'm very angry about it. It's like meeting the perfect girl: intelligent, beautiful, funny, outgoing, athletic, and charismatic....but she has a drug habit and you commit yourself to helping her, only to keep failing time after time. She doesn't care and you're forced to move on.
  • Lol, well written, f...k that girl
  • I have also, but i see no point in changing. windows phone 'just works' for me. later -1
  • Microsoft's Mobile strategy was good with Ballmer, Nadella scrapped everything.  What kind of idea it is to writeoff Nokia's purchase so soon after its acquisition?  The deal was signed just before Ballmer left and Nokia's Windows Phones were selling well.  If Ballmer had stayed Windows Phone would be in a much better place today...
  • If it was good, why did it fail and cause Balmer to be fired? It had already failed before he was replaced. Nadella is just doing the job he was sent in to do.
  • That was all because of Nokias efforts. Let's not forget that.
  • Ballmer is the reason they stuck with 6.5 after iOS and Android quickly locked up the market. They never recovered from that. They couldnt, no matter what they may have done. 
  • There is some strange presumption on the part of the author. Having owned several Win phones since the 7.0 days and having recently switched from my 950XL to a Samsung S8 - I can honestly say I haven't lost trust in Microsoft. I never saw the switch of hardware from 7.x to 8 as a betrayal - I saw it for what is was, the same as iOS and Android drop support or at least run like **** on older hardware. Plus people upgrade there phone every couple of years, some every year. So that switch was never a problem to me, nor the W10 switch. The social integration thing was a problem for me, but basically this was down to Facebook and the like dropping support for various APIs that MS was using - what could MS do about this? Nothing. Did it suck, it sure did, is the Win Moble FB app as good as the others, no it isn't. I still trust MS with my data more than Google any day of the week. I still use Onedrive, Office 365, Windows 10, Surface Pro, XB1 and will continue to do so. I'm not sure how MS can close the app gap. But if they come out with an all purpose, constantly updated ultra mobile PC that can fold out to a bigger screen and that can take calls they might be able to start down the very long road to gaining some mobile mindset back, even if it starts with the enterprise and slowly seaps out to consumers. MS has been all about open sourcing there software within the last few years, even making it available on other platforms (.NET and SQL Server both on Mac/Linux and VS Code) and making and support apps and services on other platforms. Contrast that with Apple and Google who are both very much closed source and unsharing. That's a massive change to the MS over 10 years ago.  As Win Phone fans we may want it to have fought it's way to a bigger piece of the pie, we might want it now etc... but frankly with all the other stuff MS is doing I'm not willing to count them out. Even if they never make it back to mobile, Microsoft is about so much more than just that (Azure, consoles, productivity software) stuff that you don't do on a phone or tablet.  
  • I agree with you. Too many people take things personally, and have no patience. Also, they don't realize that businesses go through transitions all the time.   later -1
  • Android and iPhone have never dropped support for their platform. New apps are still compatible with devices from 2011! When was the last time a new app was available on WP7?
  • Okay let me see an iPhone 3GS running iOS 11? Oh wait you can't even install it. What about 4? 5? Mihgt install but runs like ****. With Android depending on the phone it's a case of will I ever get the new version of Android? Who knows. You talk about app compatibility but then say when was the last time you saw a new app for WP7 - that doesn't make any sense what so ever. Apps from WP7/8 still work on W10M, so your point was?  
  • Because your Windows phone didn't get updated, apps stop working and you can't even install Microsoft's replacement. Updates are much more important on Windows phone because Microsoft quickly stops supporting apps on older devices. Google doesn't do this. Even if you have an Android phone that never received a version updated, it will still run most new apps. It won't run all new apps or they might be lacking some features, but support isn't cut off across the board. That is the point. Google's system of device updates through the Play Store makes sure devices are supported for several years.
  • Tell this to people who bought Windows Phone 7.5 just before they dropped the support. Microsoft told us, they will always provide updates. And then 7.8... Ok, there were some techincal issues. People could understand as they liked WP7 and bought a WP8. With OneCore, and promise to always get updates. Oh and Windows 10? Dropped support for a lot devices, that were working perfectly with Insider builds. And developers were frustrated as well. All the efforts to create WP7 apps, gone. WP8 apps... gone. Now I beg you to create UWP apps. Even Microsoft did not create everything for UWP or "forgot" some features (think about LinkedIn UWP app, I am still missing lockscreen image in wheather app, ..). So badly, most third party apps did never get an update. Microsoft sure has more stuff than phone or tablet. But would I ever use OneDrive on Android, where Google Drive works much better? Should I use Cortana (in Germany) where all competitors gain features instead of losing them? Try "bring me [anywhere]" did not work over last weeks. As developer, why should I use Azure? Yes, it's personal, but Snapchat did not come to Windows, because the team personally did not like Microsoft at all. Now they are worth $29bn and more people are moving away. Of course Phil Spencer and the Xbox team is doing a great job and I personally will buy an One X (my first console). But this is probably the upside of Microsofts internal team problems. I'm still open for Windows Phones, but Microsoft has to clean up so much right now, they will have harder times than in 2010 with Windows Phone 7.
  • Aren't you guys tired of puting out stuff like this? 
  • Ya, it seems like Jason cranks out these click bait articles at least once a week just to get a lot of comments. 
  • These articles seem like another variation on a theme. I'm sure people would appreciate something different, instead of always circling around 'Windows Phone' and regurgitating the same information.
  • I can go damn near anywhere else, to any other site to get negative, and often untrue info about all things Microsoft. I've been very limited on where I can go to get honest real info that can benefit me. This used to be the site for that.
  • Hi Sean: I think providing a balance of hopeful vision and candid accountability and constructive criticism is important for readers and Microsoft. My collection of work provides both. Furthermore, my conversation with Microsoft and info from colleague assure me that Microsoft is appreciative of candid feedback. It doesn't take away from a spirit or position of support. As a matter of fact it enhances it. No person or company perfect. I would not appreciate it if a person who claimed to be a friend allowed me to walk around with food in my teeth, a stain on my shirt or my fly open just because they say they are my friend. A friend doesn't just tell you what you want to hear, they tell you what you need to hear as well in an effort to make you better. I want Microsoft to do better in areas that I and many others, and I would argue they themselves would agree they can improve in. Again if you follow my work you will see a balance of hope, candid criticism,and objective analysis. As a matter of fact I'm one of the few writers anywhere that vocally expresses a belief that Microsoft has a mobile strategy that it is positioning. Hopefully you understand that the content we provide won't just blindly praise everything MS does. That wouldn't be honest nor helpful to Microsoft or the users who want to see MS do better in areas where it can improve.
  • I rather see them take on AR and try to do to smart phones that smart phones did to PDA's. No microsoft mobile phone has a future. not unless it runs android and what's the point? let google invest in the dead horse that is the smartphone while the next big thing happens outside android
  • Microsoft in the next 10 years will make billions of dollars less because of they way the kept half-heartedly tried to develope the mobile ecosystem.  Which by the way the continue to do at a snails pase.  However, once Andromida comes out in another year or so, first to Windows 10 based computers (those running home, pro, enterprise, education, hub, IOT, server etc.), then to more consumer centric like Xbox, they will likely try mobile again. They will try an push Windows on mobile with all of the 365 cloud and Xbox capabilities (that they will have well established on other mobile plateforms).  By then how much smb and enterprise cababilities will Android and iOS have?  What could Microsoft offer a consumer outside of what they give them on Android and iOS?  Continuum? Xbox? Win32? Better security?  Is that enough value add to have consumers switch?  Will Microsoft actually have a great Win10 based mobile OS for business that smb and enterprises will embrace so that consumers will see the phones and want one? Hard to say, but they will have a hard time of it now.  They failed to require teams within Microsoft to support Windows 10 Mobile over and above other plateforms, that makes it a hard sale even for businesses.  Microsoft could have forced market share by playing the long game and only having all of the Microsoft Apps that are on Android and iOS available on Win 10 Mobile.  They should have done this, Google did that to all Windows mobile OSes (7.x, 8.x, and 10..x).  Then they would have a solid foothold on a low 5 to 10% marketshare by now, but they also would be getting business developers to support and built UWP apps instead of seeing them as extra work for now reason.  This would have improved the Windows store by a lot!  That is Microsofts biggest failure in mobile.
  • MS makes billions every year off of patent licensing to Android OEMs. I agree with your comment, but they've made way more $ from android than they ever made from Windows phones.
  • And Google is not standing still. Here's a recent article on their "Zero Touch" initiative to make it easier for enterprises to roll out Android mobile devices to their employees: https://www.blog.google/products/android-enterprise/android-zero-touch-enrollment-seamless-and-secure-enterprise-deployment/
  • To be honest everyone I know is sick of all mobile phones. Whether its Android, IPhone or what's left of WP10. The need to upgrade all the time is gone. It's pathetic. Take the Iphone X. its the same bloody phone as before. Galaxy S8 is the sane as the S7. Oh wait it had no bezzels!!!! Woooohooooo!!! I've had the same Lumia 950 now for 2 years. Absolutely no need to upgrade at all. I use a handful of apps. I don't know anyone anymore that spends time on their phone. And we are all more likely to use a tablet or a PC to do most tasks. I'm not really interested in phone upgrades unless its a significant change or my handset dies. I'd be interested in seeing the new Ultra mobile PCs if they are fully featured. But I'm much more interested in getting a new Surface Pro or Surface Book over a £900 phone (yes looking at you Iphone X). Maybe 7 years ago my circle of friends were all excited about new phones. But now no one cares anymore. We are shifting back to proper devices with bigger screens. Contracts (loans) for devices that do nothing more than the one i already have is for the weak and quite frankly silly consumer these days. It really is a terrible business plan the phone industry is built upon. 
  • You haven't been in public lately if you think people don't spend time on their phones. That is a crazy claim.
  • Indeed everyone in the street is always staring at their phones. My sister is always staring at her phone. During lunch break at my workpalce, everyone is always staring at their phones... This claim that "Everyone's sick of phones" is a desperate lie a Windows Phone fan tells to himself to justify sticking to a dying OS. I'm sorry, but it's dead. Took me a long time to admit it too, but it really is. Moved to Droid and couldn't be happier. Yes, moving from iPhone 7 to iPhone 8/10 or S7 to S8 might not be a big upgrade, but moving from WP to ANY OTHER PHONE is the biggest upgrade one's ever going to get.
  • Bleached...Richard is one of the crazyass fanboys here who thinks that the entire mobile scene is the same as windows 10 moible since window 10 mobile is tanked!  Its a wacky unrealistic view...but fanboys have rose colored windows blinds on.
  • Jason, seems like you have bipolar disorder when it comes to Microsoft. Seems like some times it is "they know exactly what they are doing" and other times "they have no clue".
  • Hi Maookin: Lol...Read a little cloaer. Even in pieces where I lay out my analysis of rhe comapnies mobile vision I acknowledge areas of failure. The focus in thoae pieces is not the failure but the strategy so less time is committes to extapolating on those acknowledgments. In this piece its more of a focus on the failures that (I again frequently in other works) may affect the repsonse of current or former Windows phone users. So i spend the time detailing those failures. You'll note that both acknowledge my belief in the strategy they have and breifly decribe it in the end. The situaion is not black and white nor is my coverage or analysis of it. So, if you read my work closely you will see that it is not as simplistically one way one day and another as you put forth.😉
  • Jason.  seriously...get an android phone and be set free from this sewage that is windows 10 mobile.  Lie after lie drove me away...and many others.
  • Yeah but can't both of those things be true. Yes they're planning on releasing a new mobile device, but they've done it so slowly they're undermining their own product.   
  • I seriously dont see myself with an Android or iOS device. Dont know how I could go back and not feel disappointed every single the screen came on. Might carry a small 4G tablet even though I would loose out on camera quality and performance in general. So sad if they dont get back in the game with a great pc-phone 😿
  • Its not end users like me windows fans that the problem is, its developers that they have abandonded they are the ones that really would need to come back, I think Microsoft thorught if they dropped windows phone that the developers would move their apps to the windows store and use t hem on the PC they are dropping their apps not even trying to move to the windows store, if they convince developers to write apps for windows 10 peroid. than I would come back. I can't beleave there is not apps on windows 10 STILL.
  • Nope. I'm done. Suck a dog ****, Nadella.
  • The whole Verizon fiasco said it all about Microsoft's existential commitment to mobile. Sure, VZW was a small market compared to the world, but it was likely the most important market in an affluent country that is also MS's home country. Mobile needed a little of the 'ol "we're Microsoft, dammit" attitude, and a lot less of the "sorry, don't mind us, pardon the interruption." There has been a whole phone company born and releasing an open device on VZW - Essential - in about the same time HP & MS have been dealing with the X3 and a will they/won't they uncertainty on VZW. Again, they're mf'ng Microsoft. If they really wanted to be in mobile, they could/would. Even with W10 for mobile stuck on feature2, at least there would have been devices and users out there. That they haven't and there aren't says way too much. "Do, or do not. There is no try."
  • I'll be more interseted in a new device Microsoft puts out, if they give it to Windows Phone users for free! ;)
  • That would make my anger go away! :)
  • I have lost Faith for sure, I have on my desk ,my old SAMSUNG Windows Mobile 2002...It was a great phone , I keep my Lumia 950 Updated on Insider , just to see what happens.. If there were Home automation apps , I would use it, But My Samsung S7 has everything...ALMOST, Is there some covert Reason why Microsoft wonf Bring the Edge browser over to Android ??? I would really like to Sync my Favorites!!... well , that's all I have,
    Dave
  • You can say this again! "Windows Phone 8.1 removed most of the unique aspects of Windows Phone that won users over."
    i think its not well researched, of the research in one part of the world yet a feature that may not be useful in one country may be 'a must' in other countries. 
  • I started using Windows Phone around the time it was released in my country, in 2011. Ever since then, until last year, I used every platform they released, and was an early adopter. And because of that, I really don’t trust them anymore, and I will not adopt an early product from them, for many years to come.  I entirely switched platform to Apple, because of the longevity. I don’t wanna buy stuff, from a company I don’t trust to support my newly purchased products for more than a few years. However, I am far more excited for the future of Microsoft than Apple, with all the stuff going on there, and I still visit this site daily. But it has to be very attractive to make me switch back, or early adopt. I do however still use my Windows desktop from time to time, and Microsoft services like Office and OneDrive, as these services are vastly superior to Apple's.
  • jason, we all know window phone is dead and thats what MS want, dead. Why? Because, if i remember correctly. MS is looking at the next evolution of mobile phone. we havent see it yet, but historicly speaking, MS is very tight lip.  Can you blame them. i am still using my lumia 950xl. i dont twit, FB, snapchat or gaming on phone. i talked and text a lot on my phone and it last me whole day. i guess i am different. by the way, i am typing this on android table and its horrible. why do i have to suffer thru this
  • 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
  • Nope...Im gone.  Apps, accessories, wearables and support win out over loyalty to a sole company.  I will keep using windows 10 on my computers,  but as for my tablets and phones...NOPE.  
  • I've been voicing concerns as to what damage Nadellas strategy is inflicting upon trust for ages. Whilst the numbers of consumers burned by retrenchment are few, but it'll be a vocal few that Microsoft can I'll afford during a self imposed standing start for anything they try and bring to market.
    I'll watch with interest what MS do, but I'll not buy in until I see years of commitment and success. I have a feeling too many people will fall into this wait and see category and that MS will just pull the plug as they fail to penetrate the market.
  • The numbers of direct consumers burned by Nadella may be few, but absolutely everyone (even Android and iOS users) saw what Nadella did to people that bought Microsoft. The damage he's done to Microsoft's trust with consumers and developers would need to be measured in the tens of billions of dollars, if not hundreds of billions.
    .
    For example: Google, Apple and Microsoft all launch a new category consumer product at the same time. Who the hell would buy the Microsoft version now? Heck, even if Nadella ever launches his stupid "ultimate mobile device", people will just ask Google and Apple to build something like it. No one trusts that guy, or the company he represents, nor should they. He will cut and run at the first sign of a fight. He has no balls.
  • The only thing Nadella brought was more money, because he laid off the expensive experienced engineers. And those that he decided to replace are nothing but interns, good guys maybe, but with no experience yet. And so, the quality in most of their services and products is mediocre! What Nadella managed to do, that no other company ever did in the whole IT industry, not even IBM, was to make MS lose all the trust the world had in MS, or, not all, but at least 90% of it! A small dent in a window can result in a shattered glass! Besides my outlook.com email account, I have stopped using any other MS services. Besides my Xbox One at home, I am not using any other MS products because I've grown tired of their lack of commitment, pure mediocre quality and support and lack of respect!
  • MMGM,  Interns?   No,  he's using sucker.....i mean insiders to do the work!  Not engineers.  Most suckers...i mean insiders are to blind to see what they really are.   Free labour for Nadella.
  • Tough question. I've had a phone that ran some variant of Windows since 2003, and loved them all: HP iPAQ h6315, HTC 7, Nokia Lumia 925, Microsoft Lumia 950XL. But I think I am about done. Microsoft can pretend the age of the smartphone is over today. The reality is that the age of the smartphone is over for Microsoft only. Microsoft is in full denial mode that everyone else is using a smartphone and will continue to do so for at least another decade. Thanks for the memories, Microsoft. Now if only I can figure out how to get my photos out of wherever OneDrive has them hidden away.
  • Looking at the other comments, I realize the main reason I've kind of had it is the way the entire Microsoft consumer ecosystem has been handled. Xbox. We love our 360. One brought nothing new I wanted, and removed the option of everything we had (ability to play 360 games). Years later it finally became a suitable replacement for our 360. But for now we are still running our 360. Band. No one else had that stellar combination of features. It wasn't the most comfy fit, but I got used to it. The rubber on the strap was a disaster, which was not fixed suitably on version 2. I was all set to move on to version 3, but that was yanked away. I dropped the entire Microsoft health and fitness ecosystem for Garmin. (Incidentally, Microsoft's health ecosystem was also used at major medical centers. But they've all pretty much dumped that as well, as Microsoft apparently stopped showing the interest the market required.) Mobile AR/MR/VR. The closest I had was the Lens series of apps that Nokia provided. That was FIVE years ago. Now the competition is delivering Lens-like AR apps, while Microsoft continues to waste that opportunity. Even without their own mobile platform, they could have released dozens of AR apps on the competing platforms as another way to keep consumers engaged. Will there ever be a consumer version of HoloLens? Maybe when that mythical ultramobile, always connected PC that everyone will use like a smartphone anyway appears. Apps. The Office Mobile apps are great. But many of their daily driver apps (People, Mail, Calendar, Photos, to name a few) still have glaring issues and missing features. When these work they are great. When they don't, and you find yourself performing ridiculous workarounds to accomplish a task, you just want to scream.
  • You are completely wrong about xbox 360 compatibiity on the one. It runs hundreds of games. By the way i have a 360 and would never get the xbox one for different reasons. So what if it wasnt there when it first came out. Thats no reason to avoid it. It's cheaper now and does more. later -1
  • I suppose I wasn't entirely clear. When One launched it couldn't run a single 360 game. That finally started changing well over a year later. Incidentally, the XBLive account management is a disaster ever since the family plan was eliminated before the One's launch. Meanwhile, there is an issue with my wife's XBLive account, and due to the 30-day change restriction we are unable to correct the issue on our own, and Microsoft flat out refuses to be of any help.
  • There were plenty of AR apps on Android and iPhone well before lenses. Yelp was one of the first. Now they have platforms to make those apps easier to create. They have always been possible.
  • Then that only further proves my point that Microsoft is totally [*ing expletive of your choice] away the opportunity.
  • So few people used windows phones that Microsoft doesn't care if existing fans are still on board (and they shouldn't). They need new fans and new evangelists or a new product won't sell. We are not their target market.
  • The problem is the target market they need might not even be born yet. What they need is a market that has little to no memory of the last seven years' worth of Microsoft consumer products. Given what my high school daughter tells me, this market will have to be younger than high school age.
  • They already have that. It's called the average consumer.. Nobody lived through the **** but us. MS is extremely safe with a new product as long as it's appealing, and can prove to be highly functional away from mobile applications. People are already buying that today.
  • Where will these new fans and evangelists come from? It's a pipedream.
  • They might not need old fans, the problem is those that have been screwed before are now actively against Microsoft, so screwing so many people in the past will definitely not help them when they try to push their new crap onto new people, as those new people will have plenty of warnings to hear from the old.
  • All I meant was that if they ever get new people to buy Windows phones, those new purchasers are statistically unlikely to know anyone who has used one in the past. Even if we all shouted at the top of our lungs, we wouldn't be heard unless we are the only ones buying.
  • We've been shafted, no doubt about it. I have an HTC 7 trophy, a Lumia 800 and a Lumia 1520 sitting in my drawer. Don't get me wrong, its not like I was ever expecting a Lumia 800 to be a fully supported device running windows 10, but they way MS cut windows phone 7 support and just walked away was the first red flag. With all that said my daily phone is a Lumia 950, I use continuum for 6-8 hours a day and I'd be the first in the queue if/when a surface phone came out. Basically I'm an idiot  
  • Many were caught by surprise by the 7-8 upgrade. Especially since 7 had so much promise and was rock solid. 8 maintained most of that stability, but 10 is akin to android where apps and the OS will randomly crash. Add to that the lack of hardware and the fact that the excellent Nokia devices are no longer being made, there is no compelling reason to even look at Windows in the mobile space... And I write this on a 950xl, struggling through the quirks of the edge browser.
  • Yep that twatwaffle in the first photo screwed windows phones!
  • Agreed.
  • Microsoft sold me on purchasing an iPhone8.
  • Not the X? But you are right. They sold me into my current SE.  
  • Yeah...I was all balls to the wall on the X,  but after looking at it,  i am getting the 8 as well.  I need touchID not faceID.
  • I was thinking about getting an iPhone 8, but they should have updated the design at least alittle. It is the same giant bezel with 2011 style home button that was feeling like an antique in 2015! Just cutting down the bezels would be nice.
  • I give two ***** how it looks...it is how it works that I care about.  screw this bezel **** ****.  my 6s works great...but I do like the fact I can get wireless charging on the 8.   
  • Support what you like.  Be true to what you like and show your support. No matter what that is.  That is all you can do. Best Wishes.
  • Agreed Kevin.  I really wanted windows 10 mobile to succeed.  I was all in,,  but as soon as they bailed on their All denim phones upgrading to 10 I was out.  I saw alot of user base leaving, then the few devs and apps that were coming,  now left.   I hope they can come up with something compelling,  just don't see it!
  • Nadella has dug the hole so deep that i see little likelyhood that MS can ever climb out.
  • Its not a hole...its a trench...6ft deep...i.e.  GRAVE!
  • It's a retrench!
  • so it was trenched,  they are RE trenching it further. got it.  Making sure it does not zombie back to life.
  • Microsoft can dream on if they think after so many lies and broken promises anyone will again buy into their future Mobile platform, if there ever is one. Especially not if Nadella is still in charge, as he simply can't be trusted when it comes to consumer products and consumer privacy protection.  
  • It all depends on whether you're a person bowled over by a phone which brings you tomorrow's features today or one whose best features seem to be emojis and pirate language.
  • I don't use emojis or pirate language.  The iphone however is miles ahead of the windows mobile deivces that can be purchased today,  or tomorrow since there is little app support for them or wanting to have support going forward.  So I have no idea what you are talking about Brett.  I guess "tomorrows features" means FEATURE PHONE?  ahhhhh got it.  
  • By features I mean all the great things you can do with a phone which are ALWAYS being crowed about in the media every time a ruinously expensive Android or iPhone is released. During the same week, it seems that a Windows phone's biggest new feature is an emoji resembling a hemorrhoid. I love my 640xl but I had to get an android for use at work. Now my Windows phone is basically a mp3 player and camera.
  • sorry Brett,  misunderstood the first comment...thanks for clearing it up....I agree one hundred percent...green mushroom for you!  1 up!
  • Windows Mobile 6.5 Professional also lost a lot of power users to Android when WP7 was released.
    Yes WP7 had fancy social network integration and whatnot (which also means that updates are a pain in the butt... never been a fan of integration), but it lost like 90% of the features that Windows Mobile had. Forget FIle explorers and default app settings. WP7 couldn't even copy-paste text on launch! I jumped from WM6.5.5 Pro to WP8.1 when they finally release a (super basic) File Explorer! With W10M things seemed to be getting brighter (for power users) but then after releasing Lumia 950, Microsoft just seemed to have lost all interest. In some European countries Windows phone had double digit market share! And Microsoft's lack of interest in producing new handsets has ensured the destruction of this marketshare. So there we go. They rebooted too many times and betrayed their blindly-loyal fans too many times. I have now purchased a Note 8, running Square Home 2 with Whicons and I'm loving it. I finally have a consistent Start Screen too! No more begging of Microsoft: "Oh would you please make use OF YOUR OWN FEATURE and give App N a transparent tile already?" How hard is it to make a back groundless png?
  • Oh, please.  I started with the iPaq 3630, moved to the Dell Axim X5 then the X3i.  I gave up on PocketPC/Windows Mobile at that point because you HAD to do so much flipping customization just to make it half way decent.  I despise a system that requires a bunch of tweaking I want it to just WORK.  Which WP7 absolutely DID.  I was GLAD to say goodbye to the original WM.
  • Scuba,  just get an iphone.  it's not bad at all.  I was reluctant too when I gave up my 1020s...but they are really good...**** customization of android etc,  Iphones work out of the box,  have EVERYTHING you could want in a TRUE mobile device. 
  • Scuba is an Apple fan in denial. I commented on this the other day. He would fit perfectly in their ecosytem.
  • That's cause you're not a power user, nor a nerd, nor a tweaker. I loved going to XDA to see what cool tricks will they come up with next. Then of course Microsoft pushed them away to Android with that iOS-Wannabe WP7. Heck you had to sync the bloody thing via Zune. How is that not an iOS wannabe? If I wanted things to "Just work" (The way OEM intended), I would have bought a console and an iPhone. Instead I built my own PC, bought an Android and picked a ridiculously over-complicated launcher (There's Launcher 10 for those who want it to look like W10M "out of the box"). Windows Phone in its current state is the worst of both worlds. Too locked down and simple for power users, while lacking all the snapchats and other social medias for casual users.
  • I build all my own desktop pcs.  and most of my notebooks.  A power user is a "relative" term....I use my phone for LOTS of stuff.  I consider myself a power user,  and there was NO POWER on windows mobile.  android is just a pain in the ass,  **** messing around all the time with launchers and ****...im to old and busy for that crap.  I want to pick up my phone,  do what I need it to do,  which is ALOT....and be done.  
  • Power to me is the control of my own device and my files. I'm sorry, but until iOS 11, there wasn't even a File manager on that joke of an OS. I cannot take ANY OS seriously that hides everything away from its users. Not only does it complicate stuff, but it takes away the control from user's own device. I have that Power in (Desktop) Windows. I HAD that Power in Windows Mobile. I have a very limited power in Windows 10 Mobile. However there is no power whatsoever in iOS. Android, on the other hand, gives me the very same power that (Desktop) Windows does. I expect to use my phone the same way I use my PC. That is what continuum should be. The same user experiecne on every device, and frankly, Android is far more Windows-Like than Windows Phone 7+ has ever been. Anyway I shouldn't be surprised that fans of a locked down Windows Phone would be praising a locked down iOS. I remember three or four years ago this site used to become incredibly toxic whenever anyone mentioned that Windows Phone needed a File Manager... <s>Fans<\s> Yes-Men rejecting all feature requests and telling the requesters to shut up and go to Droid, because WP was "Perfect the way it was". Yup... no wonder WP failed.
  • IOS I know where every "file" is.  I want photos,  it's in the photos app.  I want documents they are either in onedrive,  or in pages etc.  I don't care about "finding out where my files are, as long as they are in the app i need them to be in.  I always find that funny.  Jesus in android you save a photo you have to hunt through about 20 different places that effing photo could be.  It's a garbled mess.  No thanks.   Power means efficency,  NOT how many places do i need to look for something I saved etc.   Its obviously not a joke of an os since it's well outselling windows mobile.
  • You Sir, are LYING! The thing about powerful features is that they are there for those that need them and they are not forced onto anybody. If you want to use a phone like Steve Jobs intended be my guest. Open your "Photos" app on Android and they'll show up there just the same. This whole "20 different places" thing is a pure lie. Now I personally hate this idea of each file within its own app. It's like saying all cups must be in the cupboard and all forks should be in the drawer. Be damned if you want to have both on a table at the same time! I may want various files grouped in the same folder if they are related to a single project. I treat files as real object, which means I can put them wherever I want and arrange them however I want. Mr Jibs isn’t there to haunt me whenever I don’t put my cups back in the cupboard. I want to organise all my files in folders because that makes it easy for me. Don’t want to? Don’t do it. It’s THAT simple. And also don’t try to claim that it’s inefficient. Mixed files in one place is how people have been working on computers for years. To hell with Jobs idiotic ideas. I’m glad that even Apple is throwing them away one by one.
  • You sir,  are a WACK JOB...
  • < Comment Omitted >
  • @Kevin Rush The People I'm talking to know that I'm talking to them.
    Sorry for lack of "@s", I'm still getting used to this absolutely PATHETIC commenting system that Mobilenations use.
    It really does look confusing out of context, especially since the replies to my original post seem to have been split between 2 pages lol. Go back to page 1 and look for my original post at the end.
  • Same thing I was saying for months about WP fanboys: they ate every crap MS fed them and never had the guts to complain...
  • Syncing to Zune was AWESOME!  I could download all my music or any music you could find in Zune and then sync it to any of the phones in my household!  Didn't need no fancy "family" plan.  The only caveat was that any phone that downloaded music from Zune needed to be attached to Zune at least once per month or 30 days.  And that was simple enough.  Only one plan that could support all the devices in my home.  It worked!  At least for me!  Miss those days!
  • I should be able to plug in a phone to a PC and have it reveal its folder to me, so I could add whatever I want however I want, instead of using a MUSIC PLAYER for that. That’s how smartphones have always behaved and they, thankfully, still do. Let’s leave the music player nonsense to apple. That also doesn’t mean you can’t sync music via a music player if you REALLY WANT TO! The point is that you don’t HAVE TO.
  • @Sargon Did I forget to mention you could do so wirelessly.  :)
  • Cough. What vision? I have a 950 sitting on my desk that I would LOVE to use but it's missing some key apps. Want to get back in the game somewhat? Run Android apps on Windows. I prefer Windows as a platform, and just need the apps -- I don't care whose store I get them from.
  • Alphaswift wrote:
    Run Android apps on Windows. I prefer Windows as a platform, and just need the apps -- I don't care whose store I get them from.
    It sounds like a good idea on the surface (har har), but IBM tried the same thing when their perceived-as-superior OS/2 failed to get the application support from third party devs that Windows had.  They made OS/2 compatible with Windows programs, but this just ensured that there never would be any support for OS/2 natively, and OS/2 failed spectacularly.  Even if OS/2 was better than Windows, it seems that few people wanted to run an OS that couldn't stand on its own and had to use the other guy's programs (although that "other guy" was supposed to have been an IBM partner cooperating with them instead of quietly creating their own competing project, but that's a story for another time).  That strategy had worked quite well, on the other hand, with PC compatibles, though then the compatibility was at a hardware level, not an OS level.  The cost savings was also greater than it ever could be with Windows, since that cost savings was more than the cost of Windows itself. 
  • Let's put it this way, only recently I moved to an iPhone.  I'm not sure what Microsoft could produce that would bring me back as the level of refinement is incredible.  Still all in at every other level, but even if they produce another phone, it would always feel a step back now as you get used to apps or app quality.  Their mistake was giving up 4 years ago instead of commiting 100%.  Sadly their focus has to be Office and Azure now as they are the most unique things left.
  • It's pretty pathetic when their only solution to Edge mobile continuously crashing is "create a new account."
  • Has anyone read Satya Nadella book?  Pretty much, if it is niche, he does not want to be involved.  If it is not going to make a lot of money, he does not want to be involved.  I don't see a new phone happening nor do they need a phone.  We are more likely to see tablets of every shape form and size with maybe a phone option before we see a phone.  If there is a mobile strategy, it will be with Tablets where they can leverage the surface division.
  • Nadella seems to be the problem.  He just does not want Microsoft to build hardware, instead the grand vision seems to be renting the software instead of selling it, I hate that idea with a passion. He had a chance with the Nokia division and blew it, now they really need a new head with a grander vision, building shareholder "value" seems to be todays exciting lead...
  • The chance was blown before he took over. The mobile market was decided by 2014, hence balmer getting ****-canned. Obviously Nadella wasn't brought in to fight the mobile platform wars. He was brought in to find another source of income for Microsoft.
  • ****...i have to run to barnes and noble,  search the 80% off bin for his book...I did not even know he actually released it...I thought he retrenched that too!.
  • It will be release next week Sept 26 (Hit Refresh: The Quest to Rediscover Microsoft's Soul and Imagine a Better Future for Everyone)  -- I have family who works for the publisher and just like some of the news source was able to read an advanced copy.
  • Should have been called,  hit retrench!  how to bury MS in the ground!
  • The article is spot on as far as following my trek with Windows phones and even Windows 8.  I LOVED WP7 and even WP8 (8.1 less so) and LOVED Windows 8 (I tolerate W10 and W10M).  But your last paragraph is key.  I am absolutely convinced that is doing ANYTHING BUT RELENTLESSLY PURSUING US.  They could not care less about us, Insider Program notwithstanding.  There are certain earmarks that would be present if they actually were PURSUING us.  No, they are pursuing Android and iPhone users more than anything.
  • If you had a radio station and had the option to broadcast to 2 million listeners or 2 billion, which would you choose?
  • Like people who have swapped to android or iphone it'll be apps that could bring me back but it'll be a hard sell
  • I've said it before, Microsoft may have a "mobile" strategy, but I don't believe for a second it involves an actual device MOST REASONABLE PEOPLE COULD USE AS A PHONE.  It involves tablets/laptops and iPhone and Android.
  • I agree with most of what you said . I think Microsoft's next big device will be a 7.9 inch Surface Mini Tablet that runs Windows 10 on ARM CPU software that has a model with a built in Cell phone. It will be a Tablet smart phone Hybrid it's Apps will be "Windows 10 store Apps". Windows 10 store has all the apps I want now so that wont be a let down at all for me. Hell I like working with a bigger screen than tinny weeny smart phone has anyhow
  • And it will fail if that is what they release as their mobile deivce.   I would rather take a suface pro LTE with me than a 7" surface "phone".   
  • Why would someone want this?  Why not just get Surface?  I think people will want a phone sooner than a tablet.  Phones fit in pocket and purses, and they can be used with one hand.  So you want a 7.9 tablet and a phone?
  • Exactly.  Veep Peep.   The fanboys here have this vision that everyone wants a huge phone to do power work on.  Which is not what anyone wants.   What people want is a phone from MS that can do what you can do on android and IOS,  with the same apps etc.   SIMPLE.  I don't do very much on my phone with word, etc.   BUT I don't pay for my things I purchased with my laptop in a store either!
  • Not me. After convincing more than a dozen friends and relatives to switch to Windows Phone, I'm done. The premature demise of my L950 in late October of '16 was the proverbial "straw that broke the camel's back". I switched to a Galaxy S7 and was pretty happy with it. The UI is as stale as IOS but that's nothing that Launcher 10 couldn't fix.  I used MS products at home and at work, but mobile is no longer one of them and likely won't be in the future.   
  • If it weren't for Windows Phone UI, Live tiles and my Lumia Glance, I'd switch to Android. Those are the only things keeping using a W10m phone. Yup, Live Tiles and Glance are the two surviving features. WP7 was the best phone OS I ever experienced. Fluid user experience and People Hub was beyond awesome.
  • Its not just that people lost trust but people had to switch because there are are no compelling WIndowsphones to buy. They could have refreshed their hardware annually and had product on the shelf. They could have committed to produce all their apps as UWP so they would run well on Windowsphone. They could have even introduced new features and used their products in demos. They could even have some of their staff use WIndowsphones. What else. Unlimited photo storage on Onedrive for Windowsphones. Youtube videos of the latest Windowsphones. Promoting Windowsphones so it had brand awareness. The Lumia 950/950XL was pretty much the first Microsoft phone in 10 years because Nokia had done the heavy lifting of brand awareness. How about an actual articulated strategy instead of speculation from others. Biggest thing. Microsoft have to love mobile. Apple and Google obviously do. Microsoft approach mobile as just another SKU. They are no more excited about pushing mobile than using a restroom. Without love for the platform they wont generate enthusiastic consumer advocates.
  • Mobile vision?  You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. hehehe
  • Windows Phone is a joke in India. People rely upon Android because of apps, fluid UI.
  • India still have a HUGE growing mobile market....who knows?  Maybe?
  • I've never lost trust in microsoft, when it comes to phones, not once.   why? because windows phone 7.8 is still perfect for me: ------------ zune music hardware keyboard easily replaceable battery hubs   I have no intention of ever switching away from it. i might consider a wndows 10 phone if it had those features, but no chance of that happening.   later -1
  • Some of us like technology more recent than 2012, but hey man you keep rocking that Tango
  • It works fine for me, and thats what counts. How is that so called modern phones don't come with these features. Newer doesn't mean better. later -1
  • Sadly i doubt that i can trust them anynmore. I've had 4+ WPs and their total slap in the face to us and leaving us to rot on Android or iOS is just terrible. On top of that problems with win10 desktop at work and on my surface have me largely thinking that nobody knows what is going on and that there is no truly shared vision.
  • Well written article. I hope that MS reads it daily for a few weeks; goes out on the street and see what the real attitude is toward Windows Phones. Most on the street know little or nothing for MS past ventures into WP's..Those are the end buyers that MS needs to cultivate and support. Us screwed long term users dont have the numbers or the attitude to impress MS.
  • I never switched to Windows phones because I was worried about the lack of support and lack of options. I was seriously at one time contemplating the change. Now, 4 years later I am here wishing there was an alternative to Android besides iOS. I will never go to Apple, just as I'm sure there are quite a few Apple folks who will never go to Android. For all of those people on both sides, if a clever device came along and had app support, then many would switch despite MS's track history with mobile. I can tell you firsthand that the way they have given up on those phones will not affect my decision to choose between another Android vs a Surface phone or whatever the hell they call it. Bring it, but bring it good and give people a decent option to switch to. 
  • As usual, a well written piece that get to the core of issues surrounding windows mobile. I have still have my l920 with a wish of using it to it's potential but with the continuing lack of support in apps for it's ecosystem. I made the switch to Apple and now Android. Microsoft truly needs to show commitment to hardware and the software consumers use. Not just band-aid solutions. Even a lack of support for hardware. I couldn't find a spare battery for when I did use my L950.
  • "I couldn't find a spare battery for when I did use my L950." StayClassy101: Well, that is a phone from 2012. You should probably look for a used Lumia 950XL, which is a great phone, with easy to replace battery, and memorycard for extending the storage. I have one, but I have resently brought a OnePlus 5 - do to the lack of some nessesary apps in Norway. While Lumia 950 XL has been reliable and very easy to use for the last + year, the OnePlus is much more cumersome (in my opion). Since we live half the year in Norway and rest of the year in Spain, I will probably go back to Lumia when we go away from Norway for the winter. (No I will not sell my Lumia, but maybe my OnePlus.)
  • Windows phone was making progress until Nadella took over, dumped most of the Nokia staff, then dumped most of the products and managed to release two well spec'd phones with cheap finishes (just needed a better case) at top prices with no advertising or Nokia flare for stylish touches. It was a great phone, should have been sold at £250-£300 in the UK market to totally hammer the market share. Instead Nadella went for short term fixes to improve the share price - hatchet man stuff. I do love my Lumia 950, its the best phone I've used and does everything I want.  What I really want though is a mini-PC.  Give me something with a Intel Atom, ram and a foldable display maybe with a keyboard cover and the journey will be complete, just not interested in apps or any of the other Apple/Google fluff, a web browser can adapt fine to the form factor for the tasks I use.    
  • Does microsoft still care about windows phone fans? Hard to tell. They are clear they are more focused on cloud and business, but it doesn't say much about mobility and windows phone users, business or personal. I'm still surprised we're still getting regular app and IS updates. For me the phones (1520 and 950xl) still improve over time. So they do care? Can microsoft do the same for its former fans? Satya Nadella mentioned dedication to windows and mobility and that it would be a long road in build 2015. Donna Sarkar, to me, seems to advocate the personality if that mission statement. But microsofts track record of the past 7 years with mobile doesn't give me much hope to look out for. And Microsoft says the have a mobile strategy, but not a "mobile phone" strategy. Mobile can mean many many things at this point in time. does the company's leadership consider the profoundly tiny market represented by Windows phone fans inconsequential to its future in mobile? I think leadership does consider the windows phone users a valuable study group. The data collection is a valuable commodity. But I think microsoft made it clear their ficus is more on business and the cloud, the method hardware tooling for end users in general us less relevant, what works best with the least resistance. I think there is also a larger philanthropic behind their whole retrenchment programs. Quite noble really, but to a degree frustrating. In a way it feels like we're restarting all over, losing progress, but once the philantropy is in full effect, we might see an unexpected explosion in development. But it is going to test our patience. If they're right or wrong feels like a test of selfishness and first world problem semantics.Even so it feels like a wasted potential by acquiring philanthropic progress, but kicking their end result efforts in the dust, is one thought, that leaves a bitter taste.     
  • Interesting post! MS cares about money, not fans - they are a business. MS lacks vision if they want to drop out of mobile, because mobile has surpassed desktops.  Mobile is the way of the future...or present.  They were on to something with Continuum. But MS is unable to focus.  They brought out a smart watch and despite being awesome, it failed - it was not Apple Watch.   Zune was no Ipod. Even with the branding of Nokia  they failed.  They are not good end user people.  I think their dominance of Windows made them lazy.  They dictated, not collaborated.    But at one time everyone used Windows at home AND work. Apple was always end user consumer focused and they came back.  MS does not have this ability.  Well, unless they get a kickass marketing team and some differernt vision. They are doing well with Xbox.  There is still hope!    
  • I will not, and I shall try to dissuade anyone and everyone who gives my opinion any value from doing so. And when the Microsoft guy tells you not to buy a Microsoft product, you should listen. -Former Lumia 900, 920, 930 user.
  • Don't worry milkybuet,  I would bet a billion dollars that NO one will ask you about windows mobile/phone.  
  • Unfortunately, I doubt if I'll be back. In fact, since I've switched to Android I'm using far fewer Microsoft products. I cancelled Groove, and now I'm dropping Office 365 Home for Office 365 Personal. Perhaps by next year, I'll replace Office 365 entirely with Google Docs. I'm using so many Android apps that either were never available for Windows Phone or were lacking features for Windows Phone, that I wouldn't be able go back to a phone that would be so much harder to use. (No, these aren't games.) Even now, I'm posting this comment using the Windows Central Android app, which works, unlike the Windows Central app for Windows Phone.
  • Microsoft's re-entry strategy will - as you correctly point out - need to fulfill two sets of demands. First, it must blow the competition away. Not difficult. Second it needs to move to the BOTTOM of the market. No high-priced, Mac-copying, Surface strategy. It must be lower cost than the cheapest alternative. Microsoft's punishment is they need to forego revenues if they want to be invited back in. Not difficult.
  • Sorry major plonquer,  It will be extremely difficult to "blow away" the competition as you put it.   The competition both andorid and Apple are So far ahead in every sense of the mobile side of things that even taking a little chip out of their armour will be EXTREMELY DIFFICULT.   If you think otherwise,  there is a place called fanboy fantasy land for you!.
  • Still remember tapping away at that awesome keyboard on my LG Quantum  WP. When it got the Mango update shortly after purchase, I was hooked on WP. Followed by Samsung Focus, Samsung Ativ S, Nokia 930, Nokia 1520 and the 950xl.  Several forays into the Android world during that time, but kept coming back to WP.  Using and enjoying Android full time now.  Having said that, even if my head tells me not to get sucked in again, I would  likely buy into Microsoft mobile if it ever resurfaces as a viable platform.  Microsoft has given me no reason to trust them, but what can I say? Just a sucker for WP.  Thanks Jason for sharing all of your insights into the whole Microsoft mobile debacle over the years. Nobody could ever doubt your  passion, that's for sure.   
  • PS... Still have my $30 lumia 640 in a desk drawer that I trot out occasionally for old times sake. (smile) 
  • Keep Posting this **** about Windows phones
  • I would only support Microsoft's next mobile vision if it's a full Windows 10 device with phone capability that when connected to a dock, I get 100% full PC functionality. Otherwise, very unfortunately my next phone will be an iPhone.
  • Hey Jason, Do you know if anyone from Microsoft ever visits this website and reads the postings? I'm just curious if anyone out there is hearing our concerns.
  • Microsoft hasn't lost me. I barely even notice there is a problem. I sold my 1520 at the right time, and got the 950XL. Now I wait for it to get old, while I save up for Surface phone, or any Microsoft device with a SIM that can make phone calls. Windows 10 on the desktop does everything my Windows 7 used to. My moms CHUWI 10 and my CHUWI 12 tablets give us Windows 10 creators with dual boot to android for that odd app. As long as I have BankofAmerica and 5 other apps I'm ok til Surface phone.
  • No trust no moh'... :) 
  • The answer to your article's question, is based solely on how long Microsoft makes us wait to know what's going on. If you want to show "customer love" then tell us something.
  • Android or nothing..... Samsung seems to listen far more than Microsoft. That's coming from someone who bought a Lumia 900,950,1520,820 & 950XL all which were left in the cold. The only thing I see Microsoft doing to using us the customers to beta test there services. Come on man not even a blue light filter at night time for mobile? Like seriously? I will continue to invest in Samsung and Android and the S8 will be my next upgrade from the S7 Edge.
  • I'm enjoying my Galaxy S8 while my Lumia 950 collects dust. However, if they produce a compelling Surface branded device, I'll be the first to preorder.
  • I have been a windows phone fan for a long time. Satya Nadella has completely destroyed any hope I have of MS putting out a new phone that will be worth buying.Personally I think Satya Nadella should go as CEO. As a share holder and customer he has not competed in a market worth billions. He has completely ignored the mobile market and not gained any profits from it. This alone should be reason enough to boot him as CEO. I have no faith that he will ever release and compete in the mobile market. It is time for him to go and replace hime with somebody that knows how to compete in the mobile market.
  • My problem with Microsoft has always been the fact that it didn't do enough to bring developers to the platform. How about a phone with stylus support like the Galaxy Note series and apps that supported that?. A notification center was a fine idea but the hamburger button was way off for the look of the OS. Why is it that Microsoft went from a vibrant OS to a literal black and white one. Those have been my problems with their mobile efforts and unfortunately it looks like they don't want to change.
  • I feel that Microsoft abandoned the enthusiasts that have been using the OS since it's inception.  The enterprise customer seems to be the only customer that Microsoft cares about.  I don't have to be kicked too many times to get the message. I made a decision about six months ago to transition away from Microsoft.  I will use my windows phone for as long as it serves my purposes.  Then, I will return to Android.  I have purchase a ChromeBox to start my desktop transition away from Microsoft.    
  • But what happens whem employees demand mobile products they are familiar with ie.  Android and Apple for the tablets, phones and laptops. Can MS surive alone with servers and Azure?
  • 18 months ago I had my L950 and a Band 2 and I was all in the Microsoft ecosystem, after my band split for the second time and band 3 cancelled plus the "retrenchment " I now have a Huawei P9 and a Garmin Vivoactive HR, I would have bought the Band 3 and the Next Lumia but the message I was getting from Microsoft was that it didn't care if I was a customer or not, I will not trust them in the mobile space again.
  • “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times, shame on both of us.”   Microsoft not only (insert swear word) the phone, also the tablet.  Have a tablet that can run full desktop Windows 10, nice, Oh! wait, there are almost none, go into a store, where are they?? All we hear is Surface, Surface, Surface at $$$$.  Microsoft needs a new CEO, with vision, aggression to take on the other players, at the moment it has become a dying Dinosaur, they should not be too comfortable with the desktop either, a once Loyal MS fan, now very disgruntled.
  • Smoked was such a great campaign. I loved how they had hubs. Messaging was the best. Instantly switch between sms, msn, facebook without actually needing to us an "app". I've said this before, but incidentally, w10m in many ways gets smoked by wp 7. It's a shame.
  • Build me a killer piece of hardware with Windows 10 running smooth, and make sure all the apps I need (or anyone needs because we all need or want different ones) are available and I will be back quick. I read a few people above still pull out the old phones every now and again well, so do I.
  • Microsoft is losing consumers.
    They know that and at the same time they don't care. Microsoft's business is corpororate. Microsoft is the "new IBM". 
    It has its place in the market and the market likes it as well. "Mobile" is just nothing that furthers Microsoft's business
    so they simply neglect it as much as they can afford to. HP Elite X3 ?
    Who cares, scrap that one,
    go and use an Windows-on-ARM device with eSIM. 
    Its like a surface device with LTE connectivity, just with a smaller form factor. .
  • Sadly, true. I agree they are doing more of a corporate focus, but with mobile, you blur personal and corporate.  People take work phones home and want to have one device.  Or they put access work through their personal device.  As Apple and Andoid dominate these areas, what is left, the corporate world, where people demand what they already own.... Thoughts on that?
  • Any re-entry into the mobile market NEEDs to have android apps to fill the massive gaps.  Without that, any re-entry will not gain significant traction.
  • If you want to run Android apps, why wouldn't you just buy an Android?
  • The question is valid, but why limit it to the phone. Microsoft has no clear vision, no determination to succeed in so many areas. They come out with a great product, people get excited, and suddenly it's gone. The developer community invests time and money into building applications for the various products only to have them disappear, as does the income stream for a dedicated group of people. We see this in every aspect of the company's offerings, not just phone. When Nadella took over, he presented his vision of a company where everyone was free to create, to follow their own ideas, and to essentially step away from the real world where those creations must result in products people can use in their personal, and business, lives. There is no future in the mobile market for MSFT. None of the carriers are willing to invest in any new offerings from this company. It is done, finished. The same may be true in the corporate world where the lack of support and solid reliability are making the IT Pros evaluate other options. I've been a MSFT supporter since the very early 80's, but we do need to be honest. So many reviews are about the "cool" factor of new developments, but that is irrelevant to the people who spend the dollars consistently.
  • With such consistency in discontinuity of MS mobile OSes, am not being pessimistic...but MS would probably discontinue the Andromeda OS after two yrs of use or less n move on to their next mobile OS. The saddest part is where ur device is barely a yr old n an update of the OS arrives where u find out that ur device is not enlisted among the compatible devices😭...pathetic! MS ignores ur device...app developers ignore apps for ur device(NoMoreUpdates)...so u'd probably ignore ur device n look else where. The device becomes a souvenir or... precisely a trophy🏆to collect dust as my NL 930 has become.
    With Andromeda, MS should build on the UI n UX to top notch standard... integrating all the unique features from WP7.X, WP8, WP8.1 n the less fluidy buggy half baked W10M to attract the crème de la crème of app developers on other platforms. The hardware to optimize this Andromeda OS should b the latest [High-end SoC, High-end display w/ best PPI, Higher W/D IP Rating, Premium Build Quality(NO POLYCARBONATE), Best Audio, Best Biometrics, Best Cameras, Expandable Storage, USB-C FAST Charging/FWC, 5G LTE, Bluetooth 5.x, Moderate PRICING]...or MS should forget about mobile n focus on Xbox/CloudComputing/AI/MR/PC. May b that could bring some tiny trust n teeny % of WP Fans back...but "Hey Microsoft"...never ever disappoint or abandon WP Fans...we r the only shot back into the smartphone competition else u(MS) r TOAST!!!!!
  • Andromeda is not a mobile OS nor is mobile focused.
  • I really don't freaking care. Going to Android and trying to pick from Note 8 or U11. No way I'm doing Apple even though the rest of the family have.
  • Funny even the Windows Central app sucks on my 950.
  • Can't agree more with this article as a die hard windows mobile fan since windows mobile 6.5 with my trusty HTC touch pro, I'm trading my Lumia 950xl in today for a galaxy s8+, over the constant issues and the uncertain future. I've also gone through 3 Ms band 2s as they just kept failing. Windows will always be my choice for desktop and the ever reliable surface lone
  • only when the apps i need available and more but not the first or second generation of the mobile maybe theird or fourth 
  • Here Is what I am having an issue with, I have had a Windows phone since it first came out. I currently have the 950 XL, which having Multiple Sclerosis the icon size and ease of typing has left me with no other choice.  I have tried iPhone and Android, with no success, I really wish MIcrosoft would work harder to support this platform or release a supported line.
  • We're continuing to look at this merely from a mobile perspective.  As much as people are saying that the laptop/desktop space is no more, they are still a major aspect of our daily lives.  MSFT still owns that consumer space.  If MSFT can deliver a message that gives people the notion of a Surface device in their pocket, I think that will be a start, since the Surface name has some credibility.  The other name that has credibility that if MSFT can some how bridge to the mobile space will help sell it considerably is Xbox.  A mobile device that acts like a Surface device, and gives you the ability to play Xbox games will provide something unique and something that a lot of consumers own already.
  • Well folks Microsoft's Exec's including Microsoft CEO Nadlla have said they will make a phone that does not look like any out there today. since Microsoft's strength in the mobiles world is in the Surface pro Tablets, the Surface book and the New Surface Laptop not smart phones, it makes sense to me that Microsoft will make a 7 or 8 inch dual screen Tablet similar to the old Courier Microsoft made years ago. it had fantastic software ,Pen support, and was a nice size to carry around. This device with a bulit in cell phone would be right for the Surface line of products which are supposed to be inovative & not exactly the same as what Microsoft's OEM partners sell to show them how they can use Microsoft's software in a good hardware design. I would love to own a 7 or 8 inch -Surface Mini- Tablet that has a built in cell phone that  runs full Windows 10. Folks  Windows 10's store has all the Apps I want now and more are coming. i do mind carrying  around a small leather shoulder bag with a 8 inch Tablet smart phone hybrid device in it
  • How do you talk with a 7-8" device to your ear?? Do you hear yourself talking this crap? Oh, wait, I'm just supposed to use another thing called BT headset?? :)) For real? LOL, my friend you are more delusional than I really thought a fanboy can be...
  • No mobile - No MS.   When MS has 10% market share in some areas in Europe - what where they doing?  Where was the client support?
    Android will become the business and end user OS. All Google has to do is play cloud catch up. MS could hold on to their servers and dbs....but they would be out of the consumer market. Get back into Mobile and support your user base..... Is there anything to take from Nokia? I still love my Nokia 930 on W10m.  I will use it till it needs to rest.  If MS comes out with another device - I will consider it.   @Jason Ward - I like your articles - keep'em coming!  You are helping with change!
  • How many devices does 10% in some European markets add up to? It certainly wasn't enough to move the total sales needle.
  • Agreed but 10% is better than where it's at and this market is growing.  Desktops - saturated.  They could have used they desktop cred for mobiles.  They didn't. MS marketing is poor.  They owned Nokia - which owned the dumb phone market and was still HUGE in Asia.  They could have leveraged that better.
  • Wait, who's Urkel in this case, us or MSFT?
  • Up til now i've only been in the Microsoft Ecosystem. Seven years with Windows Phones. Have had Band 1 & 2 but split too many times however Microsoft refunded me $199 bucks (I must admit they have a great warranty return service big thumbs up) . Have had Surface 1, 3 and currently on 5, they are by far the best all round tablet laptop will keep buying newer versions (they blow iPads out of the water). Have an Xbox One and S and will get the X, great entertainment devices will keep buying newer versions. Shame the same can't be said for Windows Phones, as in lack of app support and why is that ? because of Microsoft Windows API's. PWA's (Progressive Web Apps) is the future and will be present in the Windows Store in Build 1803 for Windows 10. So will this finally get them there for mobile or will be too late. I'll be getting the iPhone X because in some ways it's simiar to my old Lumia 930 such as has a bumper (good for drops) , OLED screen, tap to open, facial recognition (good for glancing while driving) and the big win 4k 60p.
  • They DO have a mobile vision, it just doesn't include mobile phones.  It is, instead, all your stuff in the cloud so YOU can be mobile and access it from anywhere on any device...just that, while the device in the slim leather folio tucked under your arm may run Windows like the device on your desktop, the device in the palm of your hand won't...but it WILL be able to access and edit all your Microsoft stuff.  So, it's a vision. A mobile vision even. Just one that doesn't include a mobile phone.   I wonder what the carmera is like on the new Nokia 8.
  • Will Windows Central ever fix their W10/M app?
  • I don't trust MS anymore, so I'll go to ... Google? Apple? Man ... I don't trust nobody ...
  • I would pick apple just because of the refinement of the entire IOS platform.  It's faster, smoother,  easier, better than android whatever....
  • For the record? Yes....I'll always check out new technology to see if it fits what I need. I love Windows Phone, and have used Windows Mobile since the beginning days of CE, and I love technology that Microsoft lays out. I won't lie: I was VERY bummed to see WM10 go by the wayside, and I've switched back to Android (which was evil!) and then to iPhone waiting for the next idea Microsoft comes into play. And yes, I feel a bit distraught and betrayed...but I also know Microsoft. They bounce back; they always do. This will be no different.
  • I loved windows phone when it first came out. Had the lumia 1020. Then became frustrated with bugs, and lack of apps. No true flag ship for years, while they played the emerging market game. Making cheap phones and leaving enthusiasts stranded. On android now, using the pixel. Never coming back. 
  • Bill Gates still has all his hair.
  • I remember having a WP, Xbox 360, Surface RT and Windows 7. i thought I was legit. As soon as my Xbox Gold sub runs out in November I won't have anything MS related anymore. i was sad about it but I'm getting over it slowly.
  • I'm currently working for the State and they are using Windows 7 enterprise edition.  Most of our Management team are given iPhone 6 for business usage.  According to our IT personnel , we will be upgrading to Windows 10 soon.  If(so call SurfacePhone is in the making), imagine Surfacephone with continuum will achieve and will definitely a win/win potential for Microsoft.
  • delusional like other fans here...You fail to see no sane business will ever trust a surfacephone with a broken half baked continuum crap. No one will buy a phone size device without APPS!!!! and from a company known to lie and sh*t all over users and devs.
  • Well written Jason Ward.  And thank you for speaking clearly to this. I can never say never to a Microsoft phone. I still believe it is a natural extenstion of the desktop But since Satya was elevated to CEO, he truly hasn't have much of an appotite for anything but what he was originally hired to do, the cloud. It is what he knows and what is is most comfortable with. But mobile is something he is least interested in.
  • And still, I trust them. I don't remember the last time they did a stupid desicion. I had several Windows Phones in the past and since Windows 10 Mobile Anniversary Update, I've moved to a Moto G³ with Android. Even though I am writing this from my Moto, I'm using it temporarily. Microsoft made a mess with Windows Phone/10 Mobile and I politely sit and wait until it's cleaned up, so I use a Moto for now. Do you know how much I hate Android? iOS is not my favorite, too. There is no other ecosystem that I love more than the Windows one. That seamless integration with my Windows 10 PC, the sleek UI and Cortana are the things that make Windows 10/10 Mobile awesome. I never cared about the app gap that much - the bare essentials are available and other necessary have unofficial clients. I'm kinda sad that Microsoft killed Project Astoria which had the ability to fix the app gap issue. Therefore, Windows on Phones was and will always be a good idea.
  • I have stopped reading any articles that includes the words "Windows Phone". I still use Lumia 720 as my primary device. Unlike Microsoft, I do know how to honour a commitment. Also, I am saving environment by not adding to the digital waste. I think big companies should support devices for longer time periods if they claim to support environment protection. 2 year is way too less. We need to leave something for our future generations who will have to survive on earth for at least another 300 years before we will have the capability to leave this planet.
  • Jason bro you take long time to post such type of topic. Ya we really loss faith and trust on W10M. We already accept that Microsoft dnt have ability to make such Smooth & Clean OS for Mobile. Hardware are always superb by Microsoft as compare to other manufacture (especially APPLE), but OS is became worst day by day. No new update in UI & Interface.
    They just stick with PC always. But they will have to pay for this. As they are not serious about mobile so they will loss a complete ecosystem. On other hand Apple & Android are developing in such type of field and Microsoft is going worst.
    Now a days customers are moving towards high end phones of Android & Apple. And Microsoft is also providing a new updates of there APPS & CORTANA on it rather than on its own MOBILE. So we can feel that If Microsoft dnt be serious about there mobile development then why we should. From last 2 years we are with them but no new improvement. Before 2 years what was the condition is as it is.
    Its shameful for Microsoft that they cant able to make a perfect W10M.
  • Very good article Jason! The days with WP8/8.1 were the good old days before Nutella came with his ZERO quality and layoffs policy. The problem MS has is not only that fans and users all over the world: 99% of them have lost interest and trust in their mobile plans, but so many lost trust in MS as a company indeed. Where is the quality that we used to have in the windows OS? And fanboys, please keep your feet on the ground, not on Mars or Jupiter, windows 10 is far from a good quality product! How much time did it take for MS to admit that CU has gaming problems?? How many times KB updates managed to break so many things? Windows 7 did not had these kind of problems! LOL, even Windows 8/8.1 were more stable than windows 10. Using insiders as test subjects without having a dedicated!!!! team for testing is purely pathetic and wrong!! And yes, MS has no more dedicated testers. Some time ago they said it themselves and this information was all over the web. A coder is NOT a tester and will never be, a coder is a coder and does his basic checkups!! He writes CODE!! not test scenarios. Besides the Xbox which is the only thing MS still hasn't managed to screw over, I have no trust in any of their products! no other! No trust in this company at all because all these years, all they did was to LIE! Always lies lies lies, even recently about the Storey Remix 3D features that they have said on stage, in public at Build 2017 that this stuff is gonna come with the fall CU, and recently some MS idiot came out on a social network and said soimething like: We never said that fall CU will bring these features. We ever said that. The fact that MS thinks that they can take both users: consumers and business users, and devs for fools is their last mistake, and they keep making it.
  • I got my whole family into windowsphone and watched them slowly one by one go to android or iphone because of one issue or another.  Fortunately there's no bad blood about it and I'm kinda relieved that I'm no longer the family fixit guy for phones. Though I doubt they'll ever buy another windowsphone again if I recommended it in the future. Recently I had a conversation with my mom and during the conversation she recalled that I'm still using my lumia 640 which I'm using as a replacement for my shattered 1520, she said that "isn't windowsphone dead?" felt sorry for me and THEN offered to buy me a new samsung phone which she is now sporting ( and obviously enjoying).  Ouch.  also Hilarious as Hell, I'm still chuckling inside. I'm still going to buy a windowsphone with andromeda when it comes out.  I really like the onecore concept.  If my 640 shatters before it comes out though, I'm going to get a samsung galaxy or gasp, an iphone.    
  • " I'm still going to buy a windowsphone with andromeda when it comes out. " If it comes out, my issue with WC's coverage of CSHELL and Andromeda is that it directly links it with mobile as target while its not, MS is preparing itself to cater to various devices such as bands and tvs and whatnot, but definitely mobile is not on its priority as WC articles portray.
  • From htc 8x, 930 en the 950 i had faith about Windows Phone when everbody said it's gonna fail...Now 2 month ago I switch to an iphone 7...It's nog perfect but it's a relief to work with.. Everything works likes it should be. Okay hardware and camera is nothing like the 930/950..so be it If i'll ever come back it better be good and then I still be skeptic about it.. because Microsoft.. It will die again sooner or later.
  • Nope, they won't. 
  • Let's be honest here.  It's not just about mobile.  It's about the big picture. Unfortunately tho vs like forcing edge onto internet explorer or even Skype working great on day and then not the next, the way their updates turned the awesome windows 10 and defender reliability into my most unreliable windows experi2nce and I'm talking official released builds only.  I haven't had this kind of unreliability ever I. Windows and I've been a user on windows since 98 as in 1998 99.  Add these issues to the can't open edge new tabs to my default home page and add the complexity it can be to change search engine from Bing to google then m8crisft still is showing they are slow unreliable and untrustworthy.  He'll they abandoned my lumia 930 after 2 years and even my iPhone experience was closer to 4.  Great if your passing older devices to fam8ly members. M8crisft haven't even started to go. My trust.  Yeh if windows 10 mobile had all the apps,  gestures beta speakerphone option and wireless android apple pay then I would try again cause live tiles beats both my iphonè and s7 edge nougat static icon expert.  But no apps is no apps. And we'll now there's even more missing than in 2015. I don't mean to sound horiblle.  I want a windows world but even now I'd happily change desktop is just cause of m8crisft forced engine search and edge button on ie.  
  • Who or what is "M8crisft"?
  • I dont think MS has a mobile strategy. its all smoke and mirrors, everytime someones asks about mobile they delibrately leave room for speculation. They do this so as to not announce the death of windows mobile and buy time to figure out what they want to do.
  • It was inevitable, I like the idea of one W10. I expect a lot, not just new phone, a lot more kind of devices. Also hope one day their store will be nearby.
  • 4 Windows computers and laptops, tablet, 3 windows Phones. Paid MS subscription. Since 2010 i Invested countless hours and money in MS products. Being an insider, providing feedback. What i got in return. -Buy an Iphone if you want app or to simplify your life. I did and i am not going back. My 950XL is the most powerfull paper weight i have.  
  • I miss my lumia 930 as far as the startscreen and solid performance. But since I switched to the Oneplus 5 I really see no reson to come back and frankly would not trust MSFT to not again burn their platform 2 years after YA reboot.. So thanks but no thanks, ship sailed.. 
  • Of corse we will come back and buy when Microsoft releases something we all wont to have. (Like something seen in the Netflix serie Greenhouse Academy.) But they need to come up with something quite groundbreaking, and I think they know that. When they have figured out what it should be, and when they may have it ready for sale, is someplace in th future. (But if you have a timemachine - take a trip an see - :-) )
  • Msft is Done with Mobile as far as phones go. Now let's wait for that next bend in the curve.....a phone is a no go for me unless it can do everything the top.....well scrap that it's a no go
  • If they have a good product I'd likely end up with one. Not because I'm particuarly passionate one way or another about Windows Mobile but because my company buys the phones I use now. We're a Windows company with plenty of Surface products and Microsoft cloud services in use so I imagine we'd get a better deal on their phones then we would on more iPhones.  Maybe that's what Microsoft is banking on? That they can make a phone for their corporate partners that gets handed out to their employees and the user base will come from there. I don't know about other users on this site but as recently as a couple years ago in Canada your phone costs were entirely hidden from you. Now with new rules you ultimately have to directly pay for that phone... Makes me wonder how many teenagers and lower income households will continue to have iPhones and flagship Android devices in a few more years. I have a good professional salary and not paying that cost anymore made a notable difference in my financial life. When I look across the street and see the lower middle class single income household with 3 kids and the mother poking away at her iPhone I wonder what the realistic chances are of her getting another one. 
  • Windows 8.1 was my favorite mobile OS. The Lumia 920 was awesome. Now using Android 7. I have played with Andriod since Gingerbread and its never been great. Android 7 is really polished. Don't think I can ever go back. I was a hard core Windows Phone user and advocate. Love it, and belived it was a far superior OS that just didn't have the app support. And then Microsoft gave up on us. It's over and I'm not coming back.
  • I'm still using my 920 because it a Nokia phone.  Physically a superior product.  I love the 8.1 OS, but the 3rd party apps I was using are no longer being supported.  I've recently started shopping around for a replacement and it will probably be an Android.  Kinda boring, but what can one do when MS doesn't care?  Trust is earned, not granted.
  • Promising and not delivering.
    MIcrosoft has no pulse for the consumer market at all. Let's talk about Edge: it was promised as a separated store app in order to offer more indipendent, frequent and smooth upgrades. This, sadly, has not happened. Edge is still part of the OS as Office was on Windows Phone 7/8 and this prevent frequent updating in a always mutating environment such as the internet is. Further more, there is NO aggressive market strategy whatsoever. In fact Edge is missing in all the major OS platforms stores: there is no OSX app, no iOS app and no Android app. Beyond that, Edge is becoming clutchy, lagged and broken while other browsers do not even on low end notebooks and devices: this means killing a necessary app and casuing web developers to drop support and, NO, inking is not an interesting or useful feature.
    We read a lot about how Microsoft is "strategically" developing apps for competitors OS but it still misses the consumer point. For example: on Android there is only ONE app for contacts, mail and calendar preventing Android users to use Calendar and People app in substitution for the stock Android apps (which are frankly horrible, by the way). It would be easy, if there was A strategy of some sort, putting in the store separate MS apps for messaging, contacts, calendar and outlook mail. The result is messy and drives people to simply abandon MS apps and services when using other platforms. Let's talk about Arrow Launcher: a very smart launcher from the Garage group but it lacks personality and lacks ther MS "clean" mobile stile that we still see through Windows OS: it doesn't integrates Cortana (we are still waiting for other languages and we know it is NOT a translation problem), it does not provide the fresh simplicity of Windows flat white icons and tiles and it's not a "mission impossible" to deliver that, thus the question is more simply they don't want to, an absence of strategy that drive customers trust away day by day. I'm not fascinated by sporadic news about Andromeda OS: it's simply a waste of money and time as it was Windows RT before and as it IS Windows S now. The problem with actual Microsoft is that is run by mindless millenials and by a CEO that has no feeling for consumer market.
    It means NOTHING, for a big company as MS WAS, a positive income with a tiny market. Nothing. It's not a grocery, Satya, sorry.
  • I reluctantly moved to android about a year ago. Too many biz apps that I use every day left windows phone. I miss my Windows phone. Still have a 550 and 650 on my office desk. They are updated regularly via WiFi and man, I really miss using Windows phone OS. So much cleaner and efficient than Android. Bummer. Would I go back to Windows phone? Maybe, if the apps are there.
  • One thing people keep saying is google is better than cortana.  They obviously don't use Fontana alot.  Something Fontana does that google assistant and also can't is remind me to get milk when I drive past a particular Tesco.  These location reminders have been with contana since the start.  I miss cortana and live tiles and i love the s7 edge and the apps.  Shame i dont have both.
  • Could care less about being "gilted". They are a corporation trying to make money. I don't take it personal that they stopped throwing money at a failed platform and decided to pivot. If they make compelling hardware delivering a compelling experience then I'm in. MS didn't kill their mobile platform, the free market did so blame the people who scooped up androids and iphones in the billions.
  • While I agree that the free market ultimately decided Microsofts mobile fate, I wouldn't be so quick to let them off the hook for having as much blame in driving the market to that ultimate fate. Their shortsighted views way back when iOS and Android were in their infancy insured that they were up against it pretty much with little to no chance of gathering the steam they needed to survive a 3 horse race. Any other company with lesser resources would have given up on mobile long before Microsoft though. I feel less sympathy though for those who stuck with Microsoft even when it was obvious that Lumia was going nowhere and that it was a losing battle against Apple and Google for mobile existence much less dominance.  For years they couldn't get more than  a handful of common apps and Google made sure no first party apps were ever released in Windows Phone.
  • No. Gave up on Microsoft Mobile. Not having most apps I needed. Even the one they had I needed, developer s were pulling out and not updating apps. Mobile payments expecially. Only 2 Banks ? Comon Microsoft. I am still paying for that dang 950. I've been on Android for months now. Sorry Microsoft. No trust in you on Mobile. Only thing I really miss from Windows phone... Voice texting interactions. " You got a text.... would you like to answer or ignore... I loved that feature...Android has not figured that out yet....
  • I've been on their side for many years now, on mobile specifically. I feel the perceived abandonment, and while I stick to my guns, I fear that people with less dedication to the platform would easily leave it behind. I trust MS has a plan, and that they've learned from their mistakes. I believe we will soon have something that's concrete proof of this. Meanwhile, the wait is a bit unnerving, really. But hey, we're always one leak or event reveal away from having our minds blown. If it even isn't the fabled Surface Phone, something will come that we can jump to. Probably soonish.  
  • At this point, I don't much care what Microsoft does with Windoes Phone.  I stuck with them since the earliest days and listened to all the bs about where they were heading and frankly, I just don't care any longer.  I can do everything I need to with android.  I already have enough drama in my life I sure as hell don't need the BS Brigade from MickeySoft to add to it.
  • Will jilted Windows phone fans buy into Microsoft's mobile vision — or care?   No
  • If Microsoft provides for a "no cost" trade in of my Nokia Lumia 1520 I would give them another chance.
  • Get rid off this limited vision IT guy Satya. He is not a creative person and afraid to push for a bigger vision for Microsoft. IT folks are real bad leaders as they are so one sighted. Bring back the Microsoft phones and a new brand of marketing, not the current idiots at Microsoft and let MS fly. Satya has simply grounded MS with his little foresight.
  • Not a chance. In his book he clearly says he cares nothing about stuff that do not make him a lot of money. He is nothing but a visionless, money obsessed guy with no care for quality, commitment and confidence in the company he is leading. Well guess what, Nutella, some of us had enough of your pathetic quality and broken products. Get your own guinea pigs to test your mediocre stuff.
  • well honestly I left Android and IOS for Windows phone. I think we underestimate how hard it is to keep windows phone going with so few sales. Catch 22
  • Same here... I never got into iOS and I was a Day 1 Android user until the beginning of 2016, when I got my 1520. I'm still on board as I care nothing about the plethora of apps everyone else offers (yeah, I know, the minority who only uses the phone for talking, text, email, and light browsing.) but with direction that Microsoft is apparently going with mobile, I just don't know. I might look into Jolla. 
  • Am disappointed.  They won me back on the PC with Windows 10 experience and always loved my Windows Phone 8 Tiles.  Bumbed out I don't have any upgrade options although I still love my Lumia 830 on AT&T.  Wish the 1520 worked on LTE (hard to get used to less speed).   Tend to agree with comments above -- not sure who said it, but "Look after the customer and the business will follow".   A Lumia 830 with a fall-proof casing would be idea - I'd convert all the folks in my social network with iPhones.
  • this article actually made me feel sleepy :) thanks writer. I'm a realist Microsoft fan. What i see to this moment is not distrust for Microsoft phones. I see people in a dilemma that they don't like but they are forced to accept. I have long experience with phone OS market and it never was a stable or productive platform. The thing is that people always asked for something to change this horrible experience. but Microsoft came to rescue little bit too late. and I believe MR.Balmer whome I Think never got the massage of Microsoft. Empowering people with functionalities that helps them improving life problems. What he was Thinking was, Force something like windows in phones, Force something like windows in watches, Force something like windows in spoons. he never got That these will never live up to windows desktop. This article asks if fans will trust again. I asnwer they already do. the last of the people supporting win phones are already doing it. These are the real fans. they believe in something others can't understand. And that's the problem. There is not that many real fans for any company. Companies must act fast and come first. and force others to help them grow. they come late and SORRY ...rap loading companies like google load their ...rap down our throughts. as time passes it becomes hard to escape that pile getting in your face. I'm really happy Microsoft is taking new and better steps today. and all that bad phone stuff is finally going far behind our minds. good thing is the new plans for the future are not far from people minds and also they don't make people look like cavemen like IOS and android phones did to them today. we went far from civilization. but we are coming back to our senses fast.
  • Even though Microsoft has not released any new flagship phones does not necessarily mean windows mobile is dying. The fact that there are still software updates from time to time does show that they believe it exists. Thing is no app support many which are falling off the marketplace, is whats killing the windows mobile business. They need to get in the present not think of the future. I believe once microsoft gets the windows on arm (which will have bugs) and make that into a surface phone, will turn heads. Microsoft needs to get more people on board in terms of apps especially the ones people use daily. I hate my iphone and am waiting for that surface phone, but I cannot be patient forever. Microsoft should show us something to where they are making progress to get us hyped for the next mobile generation. 
  • Not only was a I Windows Phone fan, I bought into the MS services... And I cannot think of anything I regret more. I was a loyal One Driver until they did away with placeholders and/or anything unique about One Drive and turned it into a less relaible Dropbox. I was a Groove music subscriber until I realized that Spotify offered far more. And so on... I don't just not trust MS with Win Phone, I don't trust in their vision at all.
  • I don't think I will ever buy a Window's Phone again. I switched to Android recently with a Samsung Galaxy S8 and now I'm hooked on that OS. Sadly MS blew it with me and probably a lot of other people. They are going to have a hard time convincing anyone to drop hundreds of dollars on their phones in the future. They squandered all of their good will, from a very loyal group of people. I feel embarressed for sticking with them for as long as I did, and I will never make that mistake again.
  • This Web site:  Why wihen I click on thumbs up, on a comment that has say 3 thumbs up, does it change to one thumbs up?  No matter if i click on thumbs up or thumbs down, the number change never makes sense.  When I start a new comment at the very bottom of the web site, the comment is indented and put under the previous comment? Very odd website behavior. Best Wishes
  • Not only they burned their user base, they also burned their partners over and over. 
  • Where do I start? I was on WP since day 1 of WP7, until early this year, I still miss some things about WP, like Office, Outlook, calendar, etc. I use now an iPhone, and I still use OneDrive over iCloud, but I will never forget the frustrations I had with WP. For instance, the day I couldn’t record my kid’s graduation because the phone crashed and died for hours. Or the days that I couldn’t take any pics during a trip to Mexico because my Lumia 1020 decided to stop working. Also I couldn’t meet some friends because I was unreachable. I have had the iphone for over 6 months and it’s not perfect, but it works, period, if you are to trust a plattform definitely IOS is a plattform to trust. If I think of an App that I need, It will definitely exist, because, who the hell would pin a web site to their home screen? Noone, it is ineficiente. Buttom line is: I would only get back to a WP if it is an amazing flagship and its given to me for free.
  • My $.02, YMMV... As much as MS hit a home run with the Surface brand of products, it's the software that has made them a giant. they're going to want other companies make the devices. So when HP decided to stick with WP/WM, that was a bold and gutsy move. It also showed to MS that they were willing to work on a productivity device. I, for one, still feel that those six dots on the back of the Elite X3 are made for swappable 'shells' that will carry their own hardware to merge with the X3. That's thinking outside the box. I'm thinking Andromeda will be released by Q2 of 2018, and we'll have hints of a mobile device running it, but it won't be MS that will come out with the first device. I think that'll be HP. It may be foldable, but that idea probably won't come down the pike before it's been beta tested like nobody's business. Even if it's a 7-8" mini-Surface with telephony, I don't think that will be a problem for the public - I believe the larger iPhones are outselling the smaller ones, and I see people with phones larger than my 1520. Also, I think bluetooth will be paramount to the device's success, whether it's commands from a headset or a watch or maybe even a wearable (shades of the TNG communicator!). I had to upgrade to a 15" HP Envy, which I like, but I saw no need for my Surface 3, so I sold it. But a mobile device that could connect to my work PC (with an adapter, either by a dock or wirelessly) would be a gamechanger. And MS thinks for productivity - Apple and Android are more than happy to shill their tablets, but the phones are entertainment and communication devices.
  • Don't care anymore. I'm happy with my Samsung Galaxy s8+ after years of poor hardware and false promises from Microsoft.
  • It is obvious that Microsoft of Nadella is focused at the product/services that bring value to the company. Financial analysts and markets are quite satisfied with the results MS is achieving. In my opinion the big question is: which will be the impact at medium and long term to MS of abandoning of consumers? Are we staying commited to the MS Services or slowly we will find at other suppliers the ones we were ignoring by our loyalty to MS? I still have my 1520, unfortunately with broken glass that limits a little the navigation, because is the OS that pleases me more! I also have an app that makes me stay with it - Flash Sports - that I cannot find at Android OS or similar app that has such a simple interface (out of question IPhone elitist approach for me) and of course the MS Services I still use! Till when I don't know and it is true that I am looking at Android smartphones but never with the high price I would pay for a Windows Phone! (Not an english native, sorry)
  • No, Windows phone uses should not buy into Microsoft's vision. Yes they should care about Microsoft's vision. It is beginning to looks like MS is close to defineing that vision, at least internally.. When MS or their OEMs come out with devices that are based on the MS vision, everyone can evaluate wether the devices are worth buying. Based on past experience, the devices need to be good and the operating system needs to be complete. Users should assume that the devices they purchase are all that they will ever get. If an app is missing, they should assume that it will never come. It a feature does not work, they should assume that it will never be fixed. If MS talks abut future enhancements, they should assume that they will not come to current devices. This does not mean that the MS vision cannot be successfully implemented. It does mean that MS and the OEMS need to perform better that they even had in the past. Ms needs to lock down features and APIs well in advance and entice/bribe/buy critical developers to assure that critical programs are available tested and have glowing reviews the day the devices are announced and released. (THIS SHOULD HE SAME DAY!) MS can ameliorate some of this with rigorous public beta testing and lots of transparency. MS should say noting, but have tech bloggers beta test with no NDA gag order. These devices need to stand on their own. MS cannot rely on wowing a rightfully skeptical audience with an Apple-like extravaganza. The initial audience for these devices will be doubting Thomas that need to be convinced. They will be astute and will decide based on features, performance and value. Their acceptance will drive the me too acceptance of others. This initial audience may not universally=sally be demand a flagship. device. A flagship phone will typically have an extremely high resolution display that drives up cost and battery usage. A discerning user might prefer a lesser display at lower cost with better battery life. MS and OEMs need to provision these devices carefully. Using the phone model as an example, I could envision Mid level and High end Devices in large and small sizes. Do not repeat th mistakes of the past: In a high end device the difference in in large screen vs small screen should be limited to screen and possibly battery size. Best camera and most memory should no be limited to the larger display. A mid range device should not be crippled with have a poor quality camera. MS can not count on customer loyalty. Customers (people) should not be loyal to companies. Companies are not people and cannot be loyal. Customers can make decisions based on their previous treatment by a company, and current offering by the company. As far as phones go MS has a pretty bad reputation. They could throw in a wild card, like offering a discount based on turning in an old windows phone. Say 50% of the originally offered price. They could even accept multiple phone, up to say 50% of the new device. I don't see MS doing this, but they certainly could afford to. Its not like there are many Windows phones out there. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. I do not intend to be fooled again. It is up to you to prove yourself.
  • This article seems a bit repetitive. I will believe something when MS officially announces the Surface Phone. Until then, I will continue to use my 950XL until it no.longer works.  If here is ni MS device to use, I will.return to Android.  
  • I still trust Microsoft. I didn't leave Windows Phone because I didn't like it. Of course I liked it. I love the design and simplicity of the OS. The reason I left is apps. Especially because of new apps and games never coming to Windows Phone, first person apps that I used getting updated less and less frequently, third party apps getting less and less frequently updated. I would have left earlier, but the decision was very hard as I'm a developer and I absolutely love UWP. I didn't want to leave. Even now, that I'm on Android I still miss Windows Phone so much, especially the amazing camera. If Microsoft released the Surface Phone and developers started gaining interest in it, I would gladly switch back.
  • No
  • I have gone from being a long time fan to complete lack of trust and it has become much worse under Nadella!
  • Nope, Microsoft has no interest in consumer market (apart from Xbox). I have been burned twice (band and phone)... Won't be a 3rd time...
    I was a MS fan boy since the Wince and PocketPC days, but MS let down forced me to move on.
    When my 950XL died, I move to Android with the excellent xperia XZ Premium and will move to Garmin next month when the vivoactive 3 is released... My second band 2 teared again...
    Andromeda OS is great on paper but will probably be release in 3 years etc and most likely a device for enterprise...
    I have been forced to move on...
  • I love the smoked by Windows Phone clip - those were certainly better days.  And Microsoft marketing their products?!?  They did that?  Perhaps the platform didn't go anywhere because nobody knew about it.  I personally became aware of WP7 from some guy I sat next to on a plane.  Not by MS.  Right after that, I excitedly went to my closest T-Mobile store and proudly walked out with my Lumia 810.  Well, let's not discuss how that story ended.  Anyway, I am mostly here to complain about windowscentral.com.  Like others have mentioned already, how can this site be about windows when I can't even post comments from my W10M phone.  How can WC bemoan the failures of MS when they can't even get comments working on that platform.  Pot calling the kettle black.  While I do enjoy Jason's and Zak's articles (what happened to Dan?), the content has taken a nose dive.  I have since been going to allaboutwindowsphone.com.  Now there is a guy who gets down to some interesting stuff - learning how the maps, cameras, etc work on the devices and such.  In fact, one of the most recent articles convinced me that iPhone X 2017 really equates to W10M 2015.  Now that is content!  This will be my last comment for awhile - not because I am bitter.  Its rare that I can get on to a PC just to right a comment on WC.
  • Hi Squib thanks foe being a faithful reader. We definitely appreciate your support! Believe me when I tell you, the situation is a sore spot for us as well and we are working on it. I know that may be little consolation but we definitely empathize with those of you who have expressed concerns about the app. Please hold tight😉 Thanks again! www.windowscentral.com/author/jason-ward
  • Hold tight till when Jaon?! It's been more than two months! The thing is there is not even an acknowlegement from WC about their broken apps!!! No communication! Is it a cia thing?! By the way I totally agree with suibcakes comments.
  • Seeing those pics of Windows Phone 7.5 etc, it looked so cool and different. What an utter balls up MS. Sacrificed innovative for blandness
  • I was a huge Windows phone fan and I get them for my employees of my small company. The lack of Apps for systems that many of us use (such as ADT, apps for our cars, functional apps for smartphones Etc) was a big issue but when it was time to get new phones and we realized that our carrier (Verizon) did not offer new Windows phones and we had to go to old, lesser models we became discouraged. When our Microsoft bands were discontinued we got angry. One thing led to another and we just went to Galaxy 8 Note phones.
    Would I come back? Perhaps as I am not thrilled with the droid OS but first MS will have to prove that they are committed to the product and not expect us to accept a lesser ecosystem and devices. If they come out with a new phone and then come out with a next generation a year or two later and if many of the popular apps are available then we MIGHT try again. The longer it takes however the less likely it is that we would come back.
  • "Conversely a product condemned by family and friends receives a mark that is hard to erase. The condemnation that fans have laid on Microsoft and its smartphone efforts is bad not only for its future mobile efforts but for the company as a whole. These fans have lost trust in Microsoft. You couldn't have said it better. For every actual microsoft phone user, there are probably 20-30 others who have forever turned off from Microsoft's devices after watching the experience of those of us who stayed loyal. I nearly had my parents and a co-worker on windows phone. All that held them back was windows lacked a flagship phone. Now, they all laugh at me and my windows phone. I even converted several co-workers over to Edge browser. They have since all returned to Chrome and they chide me for still using Edge.  I now find myself returning to Chrome after swearing it off forever when Edge came out. I find Chrome (to use a phrase I have hated) it just works. It is much more stable than edge. No more page reloads. Things load when I click a button. Videos play the first time. Case in point, I tried to log in on windowscentral to write this comment in the edge browser. When I hit login. Nothing happened. several more hits, nothing happened. I opened Chrome. I hit sign in, and i was suddenly signed in, without entering anything. Makes me wonder why I still use Edge. I've lost faith in Microsoft, not just their phones.  I found myself at Bestbuy a week ago seeking to enter the other world of phones. I found myself for the first time perusing the Iphone and frankly I was very impressed as it was quite intuitive. I learned it's functions quite quickly. Android still seems a disjointed boondoogle, although it's state is better than Windows Phone. I was so impressed with the Iphone that I found myself wondering why I struggled along with Windows phone's half baked features for so long. Apple seems to release features when they are fully complete. At least that is my perception. They may be late, but they are complete. I found myself desiring an Iphone for the first time ever. (then I looked down and saw the price and thought, well it better be better!) My hatred for Apple is waning and slowly turning on Microsoft. And this article states Microsoft's trust problem perfectly. For after I played with the Iphone, I found myself playing with all of Apple's offerings. And I left very impressed. (Now I just need to go get a second job.) If I jump, good luck winning me back. Microsoft offers all their best products on competitors devices. Apple has a strong reputation of serving their clients needs, whereas Microsoft has just talked about it, but has done everything to disprove it. So why am I still holding on so tightly to Microsoft products? I've determined it must be Stockholm syndrome. 
  • taynjack writes:
    My hatred for Apple is waning and slowly turning on Microsoft.
    As a PC guy, the same is happening to me.  Apple has always been the bad guy for me, from the Apple II days to the Mac vs. PC days until the present.  It took the release of Windows 10 to change all of this.  Now, there's just no way I would ever recommend anything Microsoft, including on a desktop or laptop.  For the complete beginner who doesn't want to understand anything technical, but use it as one would use an appliance, iOS gets the nod. As a MS customer and supporter from the MS-DOS days forward, it's a disappointing turn.  I know to the chronically ignored and neglected Windows mobile market, it may seem like PC customers are getting all of the "love," but it's not really that at all.  The PC is certainly getting the attention, but it's not the kind that benefits the platform.  The biannual "feature updates" require enterprise customers to plan for two rollouts a year rather than one rollout every three years, and they get some nutty story from MS about how "it's a necessity in today's world" to have such a frenetic update cycle.  Well, it's not... security updates can be and are being rolled out in between the big "feature" updates, and those customers on Windows 7 don't seem to be suffering from their lack of major platform overhauls.  Their last one was SP1, fully eight years ago! Windows 7 has one major attribute that Windows 10 can never have in the current update regime, and that's stability.  Not so much day-to-day lack of crashing (although that is a part of it; the constant code churn will necessarily introduce many new bugs, and with the elimination of most of the QA department, these bugs are making it out into the wild regularly), but of the platform itself.  It's about knowing that the things that work now will keep working for the foreseeable future, and that the people who know how to perform a given task will not have to interrupt their work flow to figure out why the thing they did that always worked one way no longer does.  With Windows 10, all of this churn and instability is being sold as a benefit, but it's not.  The features they're adding are not worth the regressions and the extra work that comes with six times more rollouts per unit time.  The value of a mature code base that requires few bug or security fixes can't be overlooked, but that's been tossed away while Microsoft continues to roll out new features that may be at times marginally interesting, but they don't address the key issues people have had with 10 since its introduction two years ago.  In short, Microsoft's vision for the PC platform is no better than for mobile.  Many of us in the PC Windows arena of interest wonder if Microsoft is in fact executing an exit strategy, intentionally destroying the PC Windows platform in the long term as it milks it for all its worth in the short term.  It's the only thing that makes any sense.  Someone noted in this thread that Nadella indicates in his book that he's not interested in anything that's not making "a pile of money."  Windows on the PC isn't making "a pile of money" anymore.  It's a small slice of their total profits now, and while it is still a profitable endeavor, it has a relatively low return on the resource investment MS puts in, and no doubt the MS forecasts have this getting even worse in the future.  If it's not making a pile of money, and it probably isn't going to in the future, it doesn't appear to have a place in Nadella's Microsoft. 
  • Such gloom. Yes Microsoft is taking their time to make sure it is as good as it can be. Yes they did kind of drop the ball on the phones but the promise of something better is worth the wait. Only impatience would make people decide to not continue with Microsoft at this time but they always come back to it in hopes that it will be the exciting thing they want. If that was not so then you would not have so many comments from people saying they are not going to trust Microsoft again.
    People are curious and will look at something new to see if they think it is what they want and many will not take the plunge until it has been in use for a while and they start hearing how much better that new thing is compared to what they have today.
    Microsoft has many of the things that people want to use to do the writing they need to do such as Office. Sure there are office suites out there that are pretty good to use but they are not Office with the things that many people use all the time in their work and are familiar with. Learning to use a new office suite is like the people who had iPhone or Android and did not like Windows Phone because it was so different in it's use to them. It is called being in the comfort zone.
    Microsoft has their fans of their products that would use something that is much like what they use all the time already and when more enterprises switch to 10 it will then encourage more people to move to a mobile device that has 10 to work on when needed plus talk on when necessary and if it is integrated right it will happen much sooner than later.
  • Finally gave up after my X3 continually froze and had hardware issues with 2 different units. HP refused to replace and said it was a Microsoft problem that was being worked on. Without a functional phone, I made the switch I said I would never do.... And bought a Galaxy S8.
    Great hardware and a plethora of apps have eased the transition.
    I miss the native Cortana as the Android app is sadly lacking.
    I'm so invested in MS services and am still using most of them including Groove Music. It's not a great experience as you can't purchase music through the App on Android.
    As long as the next Ms telephony device will fit in my picket, I'll likely give it a try just because I'm in so deep with the Ms service's. However, it had been so nice having all the apps that I use regularly on Android.
  • I no longer read the windows news rss feeds, I've given up on the negative echo chamber of the windows News sites. It's pointless and going nowhere.
    I have a friend who was killed by msofts lack of the earlier windows phone version in the noughties, he has always been vocal ever since and has been a happy Google customer since then. I have gone through l800, l925, l2520, l950and sp4. And can honestly say that I se no future for Microsoft as an operating system producer be it mobile or desktop. There future lots in cloud and patents revenues.
    No, I will not be buying another windows based machine.
  • Answering the headline: no. But given that MS seemingly -has- no mobile vision and nothing in the way of new products or a roadmap for me, I guess the longer answer is 'does it matter?'
  • Im not going to buy surface's product, it service always going into trash
  • I am currently waiting on delivery of a Galaxy Note8 that will be replacing my Lumia 950XL. The ambiguity from Microsoft on the future of Windows 10 Mobile, the lack of new handsets, and the continuing flight of apps has gotten unacceptable. I love the UI, but enough is enough.
    Also, as I leave Windows Mobile, I will also be leaving Groove (been a subscriber since the good old Zune player days) for Amazon Music, Office/OneDrive subsciption for Prime photos, etc. By not having an upgrade path for users, Microsoft will be losing subscribers also.
  • "Will jilted Windows phone fans buy into Microsoft's mobile vision?" What, exactly, IS this alledged mobile vision?   Was buying Nokia and then shutting it down after 2 years their mobile vision?  Was releasing the 950 phones with a horribly buggy Win10 mobile OS their mobile vision?  Is the latest version of Visual Studio, with the ability to create iOS and Android apps but NOT Win10 mobile apps, their mobile vision? Its 2017, folks.   That Microsoft is STILL trying to communicate their "mobile vision" is absurd.  It's way too late, and no one cares anymore.   I personally sold off my Windows phones (an Icon, a 1520 and a dual sim 950XL) and used the money to help buy an iPad Pro and an iPhone. The fabled "ultimate mobile device with a folding screen running Windows 10 and Win 32 apps" is a pointless pipe dream.   Who wants such a device?   It STILL won't have any MOBILE apps.    
  • In the tech world a strange emotional relationship develops between the software (or hardware) creation company & the user base. For some reason Microsoft and their users have tended to be chronically out if step. Occasionally almost at war! Even enthusiastic users basically distrust Microsoft. It has been that way since at least Windows 95. On top of this; Microsoft tends to buy companies with a preexisting dedicated user base; and then basically destroy them. The Nokia+Microsoft story was one of those. Microsoft Windows is still dominant on Computers and Laptops. But in mobile the relationship between users & creation company got really, REALLY bad. In the end support never really recovered after 7.5 - 8.1 it's a long and rather tragic story Today iOS and Android are so dominant in mobile; that even most techy people hardly realise that Windows Phone even exists! This is a pity. Because the OS has some very good ideas in it. However App development virtually desolved a few years ago. Universal Apps could have helped. But by then the user base had become microscopic, compared to iOS snd Android. It really isn't commercially viable for Microsoft to support the small, but quite enthusiastic, user base. Also the hardware to support the platform has almost vanished as well. Microsoft may be able to revive things technically and launch new hardware. But AT WHAT GIGANTIC COST? Can it ever win back a viable user base; prepared to support it again? I think Microsoft has missed the boat years ago. Its a shame for the tiny enthusiast user base. But one has to ask why did they bother. It's like a Shakespeare tragedy. Where EVERYBODY DIED.
  • You never mentioned a BIG killer for Windows Phones - NO VERIZON!! I switched to AT&T so I could use my Windows Phone and Continuum, but I think it's time to switch to Android. I love my 950XL, but Microsoft doesn't want me to use it any more.
  •  my problem here is while we are waiting to see where they go with mobile... We are losing Support for everyday app like bank applications...we need a working phone in our hands...i am a super big fan of windows phone and i don't se the date e will have something new in our hand ... I don't want to go with IOS or android but sadly i will have to! Unless we hear very good news from Microsoft soon! I can wait!
  • So much time has passed that waiting on the next great Windows phone has fallen off the radar for most. In not having any differentiated experience most consumers will just pick up a modern Android or iPhone. Microsoft didn't prove itself loyal to who they are, a software and services company. I will choose hardware from hardware focused & dependent companies moving forward.
  • Speak for yourself. I don't feel scorned. My Lumia 950XL is performing well and I have everything I need. I will continue using itas long as the OS is being maintained. There is way too much hype in all of this. I do not use Apple or Google products because I intensely dislike their business model (Apple) and their tentacles getting into every aspect of their customers' lives (Google). Using Google products and services is like the digital equivalent of a permanent colonoscopy.
  • Yet you have no problem with a company that lowers themselves to blatant deceit and trickery to force their desktop OS (red X means yes) or promises "all wp8 devices" will be able to get wp10 or brazenly looks at your onedrive personal files because they think some users are storing "entire movie collections" etc etc
  • Microsoft should release an Android phone with a custom launcher styled after Windows phone 7.8. Include live tile support and update all first party Microsoft apps to take advantage of them. Port the uwp framework and the Windows store. Boom, app gap solved.
  • Boom, it's an Android phone.  The Windows store  - with its 25 apps - would no longer be needed.
  • BTW, Microsoft is already selling Android phones.  They are selling the Galaxy S8.  
  • I realize you're kind of dumb, as evidenced by the 25 apps comment, but let's be honest here: There are a bunch of apps on WP that are better than their Android counterparts. For just one example, 6Tag is a better app than the official Instagram app for certain things. Not everything, but enough things, and there's no Android app that does the things it does. And yes, we all know Microsoft sells the S8 in their stores. That's fine. But they still haven't provided a Windows Live Tile capable launcher, which obviously also means they haven't integrated the existing Microsoft apps with it. You may not believe this (trolls like you never do), but Live Tiles are actually really useful in some contexts. I recently switched to Android (after switching from Win10 Mobile to iPhone 7+, which sucked), the LG G6, and it's a great device, arguably one of the best Android phones on the market. But live tiles make my life easier in a lot of ways that widgets just can't.
  • Bring android apps, make windows store apps have urls so we can run them through the web browser then uwp won bring mobile extensions bring win32 gadgets back and all things will be solve make a windows watch and windows car solutions like car play and  android auto let it run wild don't complain and watch it grows and improve complain and we end up with a empty souless dead operating system that's already gone I don't even know why I come to this website anymore....
  • Hint: the period is your friend.   The above is one long sentence.  
  • Ha! Trust a company that makes the best platform then abandons it? Trust a company that outsources the support of a flagship to a company lime B2X, ( "I'm sorry,but there is no way we will work on your very expensive 950XL")  Eff MS! I am looking to Android, (which I hate just slightly less than IOS).
  • I too love my 950XL. But MS does NOT support it. They have outsourced all Lumia support to B2X. Those worthies are happy to charge you for support for issues that appear to be widespread.  Nah, I'm just effing done with ut.
  • I started with a Compaq iPaq's, then Lumia 800, Lumia 925 and now Lumia 950.  I even talked family into getting Windows phones (Lumia 530 & 640).  Out of all the phones none are truely supported by Mircosoft or companies encouraged to support them. All the phones apart from Windows 10 phones get updates or new software (might be the odd company still updating software, instead of changing to Windows 10 software development)  Main companies stopped updates for anything not windows 10, like Facebook, messenger, instagram and lots more.  I purchased my Lumia 950 on a Vodafone UK contract and even they will not create a MyVodafone app and to use their website, you have to alter your phone to use desktop sites, because they don't support Windows mobiles on their site. HSBC, Sky, Vodafone, Flixter (no UV playback, only basics), Talktalk TV (Now online viewing, unlike other OS's) either have never supported Windows phone, stopped support ot now only provide the very basics and Microsoft sit there and do nothing at all. I suppored the Windows phone OS's, because I liked the system and kept getting promises from Microsoft.  I don't think any Windows phone user and supporter can say they like the way Microsoft have dumped loyal users year after year.  As far as I'm concerned we have 4 Microsoft bricks and a half brick in our home.  I have also wasted time and money on apps that no longer work.  My Lumia 950 was even sold at the start with an FM radio, but Mircosoft disabled it in the UK without notice. Vodafone even advertised it with a dock, but then stopped the offer, blaming Microsoft (Who didn't want to know). I am due to renew my contract soon and it will not be a Windows and if Microsoft want me back, they can provide me with a free phone or swap my useless phones for a new version.  On top of that they can pay for all the apps I currently have working on my phone, to be on the new phone.  Other than them doing this, then I will be moving to Android or iPhones and not because I want to, but because I'm being forced.
  • How can I trust them to not leave me stranded in the future, they have reneged on soo many things.  Lifes too short, I wish you well MS but you're not getting any more money from me on the mobile device front.  I think MS are too large for small changes, a major shift, say becoming employee owned, will move the mindset to where it needs to be.
  • Will not be moving back to Windows phone any time soon, Had they had some sort of intrim model after the 950 range I would of stayed the course, Really not interested in purchasing all the games and apps I use again.
  • Your experience and complaints are similar to mine. The useful, innovative features and UI are now gone (kids corner anyone?) instead we have the failed attempt to bring a full Windows experience onto a handheld device. A strategy that sounds good in theory, but in practice is a very bad idea for a variety of reasons. The touted benefit of legacy windows applications isn't really a benefit for mobile devices as users will tend to favor small, single purpose app in the mobile space. We see it time and again as other companies offer useful, single purpose apps for the mobile space and full featured heavyweight apps for the desktop. I feel as if we are headed back to the Windows phone 6.x days and that failed strategy. I believe it will be the same result.
  • Hey WC, After seeing a few people here talking about how they're still on a Lumia, I'd love to see a deep profile of what it's like to actually use a Windows Phone in late 2017. I can sort of imagine it given how any and all apps were being abandoned when I last used WP (probably 2012?) and I gather it's gotten much worse since, but that could be an interesting article!
  • I use the Alctel idol 4s as my daily driver and I'm happy with it.  I have no desire to switch and get updates fairly regularly on fast ring   
  • I'm still using my L