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Does Microsoft still care about Windows phone loyalists?

Though Redmond's mobile efforts never met with the widespread consumer success the company would have hoped, what Redmond did achieve is respectable market share in some regions, and that was an admirable accomplishment.

After a late reentry into the mobile space with Windows Phone 7 in 2010, Microsoft began its mobile offensive from a daunting zero-percent market share. By that time, Apple had built up three years of momentum in impassioned consumer and third-party accessory support and two years of third-party developer support for the iPhone. Android had two years of the same by the time Microsoft rejoined the fray. Even a company with Microsoft's resources would find a springboard of zero-percent market share a difficult starting point from which to achieve any affection for its unique approach to mobile. But it still did.

Microsoft and carrier partners began promotional efforts with a slew of marketing that started to advance Windows Phone mindshare ever so slightly in the crowded mobile space. Though global share never exceeded three percent, a combination of early marketing efforts and a push of low-end devices ultimately propelled Windows Phone (the OS) to double-digit market share in some regions.

Fans in these now-abandoned and other areas still bemoan Microsoft's retrenchment strategy that saw a seemingly illogical withdrawal of first-party devices from markets where Windows phones were arguably a success. A fan base that had clearly shown interest in Windows phones now finds it very difficult, or impossible, to find them.

Redmond's current complete reliance on an OEM-partner strategy (as it presumably commits to developing a category-defining ultimate mobile device), with the cessation of first-party Lumias, has left many Lumia-loving fans feeling deserted by Microsoft. This feeling is exasperated by Microsoft's sparse and cryptic communications about its mobile strategy.

Many fans of the platform who have invested time, money and even deliberately-vocal efforts to convert others to the platform feel that Microsoft reaped the benefits of their passion and has now left them hanging. Though most fans want a great first-party device from Microsoft now, others would be content with simply knowing Microsoft's intentions. They might wonder: Does Redmond even care?

Is this a breakup?

Communication is the key to any relationship. It is the bedrock that supports it, as well as the conveyor of intentions when the relationship is coming to an end. Microsoft has been clear that the company is continuing its investments in Windows 10 Mobile. New job postings further confirm that commitment.

Partnerships with HP, Alcatel and other OEMs reflect the company's commitment in that regard as well. The end of the Lumia line was also not surprising to those who have kept an ear to the ground. We knew that was coming. Windows 10 on ARM speculatively points to an evolution of Windows 10 on a mobile device that will push the PC into the smartphone space. Presumably, this pocketable ultramobile Surface PC will retain all of its strengths as a Windows 10 PC while acquiring attributes of a phone.

That all sounds good. But that's the fan side of the relationship trying to read the "body language" and limited dialogue (along with other clues such as industry trends and technology advancements) from a company that has been decidedly mum on the subject.

In a romantic relationship, one party who wants to break up but doesn't want to say it still often "says it" without actually saying anything until the invested party finally leaves. It seems that is the message many fans that have left the platform have received when interpreting Microsoft's reluctance to communicate its full vision for mobile.

Growing together or growing apart?

Microsoft is a multi-billion dollar company with a global footprint and many businesses. Mobile, though a very critical business, is just one area where Microsoft is invested. Many Windows phone fans, particularly those who read Windows Phone Central, ahem, I mean Windows Central, are phone-focused. This site has an enduring legacy. All original Mobile Nations sites, including Windows Central, were founded on a mobile-phone focus. Many of our members (I was one before becoming a writer here) became part of this community because of Windows phones.

Consequently, when it comes to the larger perspective of what Microsoft is, what it may be doing, and where its interests may lie beyond phone (but that effect phone), some folks are simply not interested. And that's OK.

Like high school sweethearts who continue a relationship through college, early adulthood and the beginning of a career, things change. The jovial meetings at a local diner talking about juvenile things, such as a touchdown the football team scored, eventually transition to conversations about 401K investments to ensure adequate funds for retirement. As one matures, ensuring a stable future becomes of much greater importance than what might excite in the present. I think this is where Microsoft is in its "relationship" with Windows phone fans.

Microsoft is committed to broad business efficiency, not empathy for a tiny fan base.

Redmond is focused on preparing for a stable future in mobile, which consequently leaves the present experience for fans less exciting and with unmet interests.

Many fans may feel that Microsoft should be better at communicating its intentions to reflect a little appreciation for the fans who embraced Windows phones. Like a stoic partner, Microsoft is a business, however, and is committed to efficiency, not empathy.

Microsoft: It's not you ... it's me

Microsoft's Windows-on-phone goal has always been to put Windows on a pocketable device. The company's utter defeat in the smartphone space has, from Redmond's perspective, necessitated the pursuit of that goal with the absence of a first-party smartphone as it develops a next-generation ultimate mobile device.

Many fans want Microsoft to deliver CEO Satya Nadella's ultimate mobile device now. That's what would excite. If that's too much to ask, some would be content with a comprehensive view of Microsoft's mobile vision. I can't blame them, because not knowing leaves the "relationship" up in the air for many. Is Microsoft simply going to dump its fans or is the company going to deliver a product that satisfies? Fans, like a party in a relationship, want to know the other's intent so that they can decide what they are going to do.

Microsoft's intent is future-focused. Gone are the dreamy "high school" days where Microsoft provided fans with an annual smartphone they could compare to rival phones. Gone are the ritualistic annual incremental improvements to a first-party device that became the talk of the community. Those moments, akin to the conversation spurring new hairdo on the head cheerleader or new jacket on the high school basketball star, are in the past.

Microsoft has moved from the smartphone war (because it lost) and is targeting something that it is uniquely positioned to execute by way of an ultimate mobile device. Many Windows phone fans are, however, nostalgic of the past, and they're still pining for Microsoft to play by the old rules. Sometimes, a third party has to break the news to a love-struck soul. I'll be that third-party.

Microsoft has moved on, folks.

Microsoft isn't playing by the old smartphone rules

Intellectually, I know many fans "understand" Microsoft is not playing by the old smartphone rules, but I'm not confident that everyone really understands what that means.

On the surface, it means that Microsoft is not bringing a smartphone to market when it reenters the pocketable device space. Consequently, the expectations many may have for how and when Microsoft communicates its intentions for this space may need to be adjusted. Redmond is positioning a category-defining device to redefine an approach to the mobile space. The pattern of annual device releases, announcements and leaks that we have grown accustomed to, to satisfy our curiosity, have been replaced with virtual silence.

Communication between Microsoft and fans has changed because the relationship has changed. Microsoft is no longer in a smartphone-maker-and-fan relationship with Windows phone fans. Microsoft knows this, but many fans do not.

Microsoft is no longer in a smartphone-maker-and-fan relationship with Windows phone fans.

Like a man that continues to bring his love interest to the local diner they enjoyed in high school, not realizing she now has more refined tastes, many fans continue to frame Microsoft in the smartphone paradigm perspective. Thus, the frustration many endure.

As Microsoft shrouded all of its category-defining devices, HoloLens, the Surface, Surface Book and Surface Studio in secrecy, an ultramobile Surface PC is presumably being treated the same way. Moreover, this ultramobile Surface PC, if my analysis is correct, will fit within Microsoft's broader personal computing strategy that is being propelled by the Surface family, Windows Mixed Reality, digital inking, and the cloud. As such, telephony will be a part of all this but not the focus. Microsoft (I believe) knows this, but many Windows phone fans do not.

Collateral damage

Microsoft's enterprise legacy and entrenched IT infrastructure have led to its decision to focus Windows 10 Mobile on the enterprise as it shifted from the smartphone space. As the company refines and develops the OS, through continued cellular and ARM investments, per Windows Devices Chief Terry Myerson, fans reap the benefits of the company's broader vision.

Don't mistake Microsoft's moves as totally altruistic, however. Like someone who agrees to the requests for a date simply so that they won't be alone, Microsoft's inclusion of fans in the Insider Program is self-serving, though mutually beneficial.

Microsoft receives tremendous feedback from fans who hold to the platform, as it evolves Windows on phone into what it wants it to be. If the next step is full Windows on an ultramobile PC, the portion of the one percent of Windows phone users who will have helped Microsoft get there will likely not be taken along for the ride, because devices with new minimum spec requirements will be the new standard. There is a precedence for this after all.

Still, Redmond is likely counting on a passionate portion of the fan base to eagerly embrace what's next, as those fans cut the losses of earlier investments and Microsoft cuts the losses of those who don't advance with its vision. The full Windows-on-an-ultramobile PC vision will ultimately target a much broader market than the one percent served by the current iteration of the Windows-on-phone vision, after all.

Does Microsoft care about Windows phone fans?

Microsoft is a multi-billion company with many businesses, and mobile is a part of the entire picture. The less than one percent of us who hold on to Windows 10 Mobile represent a minuscule fraction of the market Microsoft is targeting as it evolves Windows on phone.

Does, Microsoft care about Windows phone fans? Maybe not. I don't think the company is evil, but I understand that it is a business. I do believe there are some people within the company who have empathy for long-time Windows phone fans.

Still, as a business, I think Microsoft cares about Windows phone fans to the extent that we are valuable variables that help the company develop and advance its vision.

I can't really complain, though, because like all Windows phone fans if I wanted to move on, I would.

Maybe a better question would be, "Do Windows phone fans care about Microsoft?"

Jason L Ward is a columnist at Windows Central. He provides unique big picture analysis of the complex world of Microsoft. Jason takes the small clues and gives you an insightful big picture perspective through storytelling that you won't find *anywhere* else. Seriously, this dude thinks outside the box. Follow him on Twitter at @JLTechWord. He's doing the "write" thing!

441 Comments
  • Thanks for reading folks! I know that a commitment to Windows phone has been an emotional roller coaster for many fans. It may seem for many that a commitment of time, many, energy and enthusiasm has not been reciprocated by Microsoft. There are many companies that seek to reward customers for their dedication. And I do believe, based in part on an interview I conducted with three Microsoft employees here, that Redmond is returning to a more cunstomer focused mentality: http://www.windowscentral.com/microsofts-chris-pratley-mike-tholfsen-and-chris-yu-give-their-take-redmonds-cultural-shift That said Microsoft is a multi-billion dollar global business. Its mobile phone business is a tiny portion of all that they do. And the tiny portion of users, we one percent who are hanging on to a passing (failing) phase of the company's broader personal computing and mobile vision represent a tiny fragment of the company's mobile and personal target. The ultramobile Surface PC which we presume will be the Nadella's ultimate mobile device is where Microsoft is focused, and the target market for that device will be much larger than we few hold outs. If we move on or not Microsoft is forging ahead. Does Microsoft care about us. Some within the company I am confident do. But overall, their mission is not propelled or based upon any sentimentality for we fans. Its business for them, as fans grasp this, they will be far less stressed about why Microsoft isn't doing certain things to appease them (right or wrong). The company's motivations are geared to establishing a sound foundation for its mobile efforts (whether you agree with the merits of the strategy or not) not the passions of a fan base. What are your thoughts about this? Do you agree or disagree. LET'S TALK!!!
  • At the moment I'm curios if RS3 for W10M will be just bug fixes or if it will bring any actual features (besides Edge 16).
  • I will be very happy with bug fixes. Bluetooth wobble-ness is plaguing my Lumia 950 XL... and, looking around the web, I don't seem to be the only one. Features wise, I'm quite happy with phone. Sure, we want more apps... but that does not depend on Microsoft. Besides, mobile web portals work fine for me where there's no app (like IMDB and such). To a degree I'm happy not to have quadrillion apps, each for individual little task. I'm using browser on my PC and tablet, so I'm finding it logical to do the same with phone, as long as performance is fine (and with hardware such as Lumia 950 XL is, performance of mobile web portals is fine). Ironing out bugs in Windows 10 Mobile, IMHO, is more important than bringing new features, some of them likely to be buggy just as well. 
  • Is this a rhetorical question? The answer is clear AF
  • It was a beautiful obituary.
  • 😂😂😂😂
    Actually reads more like a birth, IMO... Basically, saying it's time to move on, and on to three choices. Android, iOS, or shut up, and wait for MS to bring a device to market... But, leave the idea of MS bringing a smartphone to market in the past.... And, I'm fine with that. I would rather MS bring something new to the table, even if I have to wait long, than another boring smartphone with no apps, and hope... If it can't have apps then it needs to do something special. Personally, I love my Surface. I wish I could use it all the time, carry it with me everywhere. That would be my ideal mobile device going forward, not some incrementally 1520 upgrade. The idea of just a smartphone sounds boring to me now. I'm more excited about what MS is thinking, and I'm onboard with that idea... The problem is that MS hasn't confirmed anything, in which I don't blame them, but I could be holding out for nothing... Either way, I have no reason to complain ( but, it's not like I have been)..
  • Ditto. But please this year....please
  • Man,, is late 2017 possible?... Yes, it literally is possible from a speculators standpoint because MS has been so damn tight lipped about "whatever" we have no clue how long It's been in development... This year might be possible, but might not be likely... Nevertheless, I'm with you.
  • Also... It doesn't matter what MS calls this thing, what the technical term ends up being... If this form factor takes off, like the smartphones did in the mid 00s, slang will always take over, and the average consumer will refer to it simply is a PCPhone... People are gonna call this thing a PCPhone...
    But, I'm calling it a "SmarterPhone"🖤
  • Can you read minds? I feel EXACTLY the same!!
  • Rodney, I'm with you. I'm already bored with the smartphone. To the point that I went back to a 1520 because I was happier with it than the 950 and i7. So I'm more interested in a paradigm shift product than a run of the mill product. All the apps I need are available so I can wait for MS next thing. Just give me my live tiles. 😃
  • Exactly.
  • If the 1520 had Continuum, my life would be complete. That was/is the best phone I have owned. I like it more than my Elite x3.
  • To date, the 1520 was the best, most fun, phone I ever owned. It had a 6" screen, powerful processor, the platform was growing, and it was RED!...... If it had the camera of my 950 it would have been even better.
    I need a Surface device to top both the 1520, and the 950, in total device satisfaction,, which shouldn't be too hard in 2017-18-19... Regardless, the CAMERA, of whatever mobile device MS is up to, must be amazing.
  • Precisely. I'm thinking about getting a red one. I'm currently rocking the green with a clear hard plastic cover and it gets noticed. But a shiny red will be even more dramatic.
  • Just leave that phone in the past.. Lol.. As much as I hate to say this, if you just HAVE to get another WP device, go for the 950XL, Alcatel, or the HP X3.
  • You're basically in love with the idea that Microsoft may be doing something. Though in reality there is no sign that they are doing anything.
  • I am in love with the idea that they may be doing something... That's entirely correct, and justified, considering what they have done with hardware in recent years, why would I not be?.....
    But, I'm also no fool. I know that at this point ALL of this is pure speculation based on a few hints found by enthusiast, and that MS hasn't commented on anything official yet....
    Nevertheless, it's not fair to say that there are NO signs MS may be doing something...
    MS has said in the past, and in the present, that they are interested in mobile. MS continues to develop a mobile OS. I doubt that MS continues to develop an entire mobile OS for just a handful of OEM's. Two very definitive patents, outlining pretty much exactly what "inside sources" have described what MS may be working on, have surfaced... And, those sources, the ones connected to Rubino, and others at WC in general, have proven to be very accurate in the past... I think anyone, at the very least, would have some bit of faith that MS might very well indeed be coming with another Surface branded product, and a more mobile centric one, at that. When the Surface Studio came out it was said that more innovative Surface products are coming, and Satya said he would not make just another smartphone. Is all that concrete evidence? No. Is that enough to speculate logically on? I think so. My viewpoint is that it may happen, or it may not happen, but as important as mobile is I think it's very possible. I'm hoping it happens. Luckily for me this 950 still has a lot of life, so I can play the waiting / hoping / dreaming / guessing game. Besides, I've been with a losing platform for almost 10 years; a little while longer isn't gonna hurt. 😂😂😂😂
  • There, actually, doesn't have to be sign that anyone sees in order for MS to be working on something to be relased. They could just be very good at keeping it under wraps. No known sign doesn't mean something's not happening. It just means, we are not privy to it, making it unknown to us or anyone outside of MS.
  • The fact of whether they are, or not, is a stupid argument... Whether it's likely, or not, makes more sense...
    ......
    For a software company who actively develops a fully capable mobile OS, has made hardware in the past, is interested in mobile, literally has designers at the very least working on mobile concepts, as we've seen from patents, is officially working to bring Windows to ARM in a mobile context, and already has a successful hardware business, and brand, in which to produce some type of pocketable device,,,,, I don't think it's off the wall crazy to speculate they may be working on a mobile device.... That's not all official confirmation from MS, but it is reasonable evidence something may happen.... For anyone who disagrees, I'd like to see just as much evidence that something is more likely not to happen.. I'm not saying a "Surface Phone" is coming for sure, I'm just saying it's not crazy for fans to believe one is in the works.
  • I love it. Your a genius!!
  • Considering all of the apps that lost support and were removed from the Store --and Microsoft doing absolutely nothing to prevent this from happening-- I think Microsoft just threw in the towel. Meaning they don't care anymore about the users. I, as a die-hard Windows Phone/Mobile fan, am beginning to get more and more dissappointed. When only a relative short time ago, WP had about 20% market share in certain countries here in Europe, they totally destroyed any chance to gain that share by ignoring the European market. Which is a kick in the nuts for WP/W10M users- and fans here. Some of my favorite apps are gone now and my hope for a great future where Windows 10 Mobile is a significant player next to Android and iOS is totally gone. It's a shame and I can only enjoy my Lumia 950XL till it lasts. And I think that won't be long...
  • Since going back to android I just charged my 950xl and man it is smooth and buttery compare to nougat 7.1.1 on a axon 7..miss w10m
  • An Axon 7... Poor representation of Android. Good budget phone but not fair comparison of the premium android market space...if you said One plus 3...I'm with you but thw Axon 7 is a Really good budget phone not to be compared with premium Windows devices
  • Maybe because my Lumia 950XL didn't make it to the first major update to Windows 10 before crapping out, I have a different perspective, but I think the Axon 7 is an incredible phone. If it just had a camera that was a little better in low light and moving objects it would suit me 100%. My 950XL struggled in those situations, too so I really didn't feel any step back on a much cheaper phone.
  • Axon 7 has the same specification as OP3, same S820 cipset, it's actualy a decent flagship.
  • My Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge lags considerably now. The same Android behavior that I have experienced since the first release of Android: the phone was buttery smooth within the first month, now it is slow as molasses. I have had the S7 Edge for 2 months and I always have to run the built in device maintenance app to try and improve performance. Even after closing all apps, cleaning/optimizing via the app, there is only 1.3 GB RAM available out of 4GB and software stutters, even with Performance Mode turned on. What a waste of hardware. Don't get me started on the "This app isn't compatible with your version of Android" for apps that I paid money for and used on my Nexus 5. Oh well, I can complain about my 950XL, iPhone 7 and the rest but hey, I'll just be quiet and wait for the ultimate mobile device running Windows 10. P.S., I am typing this from my 950 XL, via Continuum while running the device optimizer on my GS7 Edge, while hoping the latest iOS update doesn't hard reset my phone, causing a need to restore it again from a backup. Good times......yawn....  
  • The apps being removed are windows 8/8.1 apps. And they do need to be removed. The ultimate solution would be to provide windows 10 UWP replacements but companies are still not sure about ms. Still, there must be some performance hit when running the backwards compatibility layer since these apps do run in the background too.
  • What to say...
    My band2 battery is dead 2 days ago and is irreplaceable... One and half year already gone...
    Yes, in this moment i feel frauded by ms and i wish to see satya into jail...
    The same for having retrenched from the smartphone market
    I don't believe about small numbers, i believe ms did that just to help his customer apple
  • "My band2 battery is dead 2 gays ago." How often do you date other people? D:
  • I returned mine. And since Microsoft discontinued it. The store gave me a full refund in store credit. The guy hinted : Save it for the next one coming out or Xbox Scorpio. *wink wink*
  • I returned my Band 2 after the second one having the Band tearing issues. I got a full refund and went and bout Forza Horizon 3 Ultimate edition and have been enjoying the game on my PC and Xbox One since launch.
  • I have had trhee Band 2 devices.  The first one died, and the second one fizzled after the screen was cracked.  In my experience with the third one, I've noticed that if I charge it with my Surface 3, the battery works fine every time, and charges super fast. Considering what the device is designed to do and the environments that it is around, a year and a half is not bad.  I have two Band 2's now just in case one fails.  I would love to go to a fitbit, or garmin, or another wearable, but none of them do what the Band 2 does.
  • I truly believe they care, unfortuantely it is not profiable enough to show it. I am hopeful for the future. I am not sure what the future is for ths platform, but like you, it sure seems with the HP Elite x3 experiment and x86 on ARM, the next phase or evolution of the utlimate mobile experience is upon us.  Does that equate to competing with Droid and iOS on the consumer market? No. But what about Business? Yes! Making Windows Phone and Continuum a better platform for the Teleworker and Raod Warrior would a better way of making use of Microsoft cloud offerings as well as stand-alone on-site offerings.  Microsoft just announced a XenApp and XenDesktop offering on Azure, From a marketing stand point it would make sense to make the Continuum platform the best way of accessing a Remote App/Desktop environment. And yet, still no UWP Citrix Client. If Microsoft does end up buying Citrix, incoroprating their products into Microsoft's, Continuum is the perfect fit. Again, for Businesses, not consumers. And the Surface Phone, paired with a LapDock, wow, what Road Warrior/Teleworker would not be happy. I am replying to this article using my Lumia 950, connected to my on-site XenDesktop Windows 10 VM, using Continuum and the HTML5 Citrix Client. I know, I know, the typical consumer would not do this, but a business user most definitely would. I am patiently waiting for the next step in this evolution, unless it is only consumer focused. Microsoft needs to seperate the 10 million Windows Insiders into Businesses and Consumers categories. They also need to seperate the Microsft Certified Professionals out of the 10 million as well.
  • What road warrior/telecommuter would be happy giving up their iPhone and all the travel apps for a Windows phone only so they can replace their Surface Pro with a lapdock that has performance issues and requires the phone to work? Sounds like a lose-lose to me. Normal people are not going to be happy with that. Really, what benefit does that give them anyways?
  • MS obviously will not be targeting your Snapchat junkie for the foreseeable future.. And, it doesn't look like MS has any intent to make a "Windows Phone", as you mentioned... MS's UltraMobile isn't meant to kill off iDroid, the same way boots aren't meant to replace sneakers.. These are the ideas that Jason is trying to get through to a lot a you guys.... Apple, and Samsung, are making apples, and oranges. MS is looking to make a peach.... Buy MS's ultramobile, buy a smartphone, get a flip phone, or get a pager, use a pay phone, two cans tied together with a string, or summon the pony express .. it's your choice. But, you can't blame ANY company for thinking outside the box. Why would we not encouraged innovation?
  • Rodney, That was nice creative writing. Seriously. I enjoyed it. Peter
  • 😆😆😆
  • I was looking forward to the Ciruelean phone from WornOut Boots... I mean WhartonBrooks.
  • Lol, but now the idea of an ultramobile device has killed my interest for WB's "Smartphone".... Who knows, maybe WB is working with MS to be one of the first OEM's to emulate MS's Ultramobile. That's kinda fun to ponder.
  • That ultra mobile has best chance, to come as a reality, by next year end. Just saying :-)
    In the mean time, I have to hold on to my Lumia 950XL as careful as possible.
  • Why do you have to hold on to it as carefully as possible?
  • Because no where I can find the spare parts. When my battery died down, it took me 3 weeks to find an original. When the glass was broken, the new screen(I repair smaller problems myself with the help of YouTube), it took me nearly 2 weeks to find an original screen that does not cost another phone's price. So got to hold on to it carefully ;-)
  • Aw man, don't tell me that! I just dropped my 950xl last wee and have a major crack going down the middle of the screen and several smaller ones on the top corner. A repair place charges me $195 to fix my 1520 over 3 years ago. I was gonna try to buy the part figuring O could fi the 950 xl much cheaper than that
  • my screen is broke...could you point me in the correct direction?
  • I back to the BlackBerry passport with Android dream.
  • Well said Rodneye. Though, I bet there will be Android peaches too, probably even before Microsoft's. I have a feeling the GS8 is basically what the Surface "phone" was destined to be.
  • Yes, I agree, but they will run Android, so they would be glorified Notes.... MS might pull off full Windows... once again, no apps, but MS's Ultramobile isn't a smartphone, rather a truly functional mobile PC. You have to admit, with W10 MS has the advantage here.
  • the so called utramobile is still a far fetched concept just like continuum was supposed to be a desktop killer. surface mobile looks rosy in theory but in practice it may be just an increment over current continuum devices but not equivalent to a PC, power and performance considerations cant be ignore, I see many ppl discussing theoritical possibilities about how amazing it would be to do certain things(gaming, photoshop etc) on mobile but they forget that snapdragon 835 or higher would still not be close enough to even match performance of a 300$ laptop.
  • Why would a SD, say, 840, 45, or 50, not match the power of at most, but at least, a low end core chip?
  • That's the point. If they match the performance of low end core chip, they might take a hit at battery. If they conserve more battery, they might take a hit at performance.
    Let's see whether qualcomm can pull off something far more interesting...
  • Looks to me that Qualcomm has already pulled it off... WOA was running just fine, as we saw earlier this year. Technology is advancing as usual, so a ARM chip powerful enough as a x86 chip doesn't surprise me... By years end? maybe, but in the near future, I would think it's coming... And, ARM is definitely more efficient at crunching relative amounts of data than 86, so the Chicken/Egg theory is non relative..
  • A closed demo doesn't tell us anything performance wise.
  • So, you're saying MS, and Qualcomm, are lying about technology?
    ......
    If this was Google's demo would you be making the same comment?... Answer those two questions in that order.
  • @techiez, just to avoid the false strawman -- no one said that Continuum would be a desktop killer. The highest hopes for Continuum were that it would replace netbook-type computers and smartphones for very specific segments of users -- sales people and other highly-mobile users who lived on their phones or internal employees or consultants who rarely had a fixed desk and would just work at whatever touchdown station (shared desk equipped with monitor, keyboard, etc.) they landed at that day. This would apply to fields beyond sales like auditors and on-site consultants and internally for roaming employees. And HP has had significant success in some of those specific segments with the Elite X3. And that was the highest hope. The competition MS wanted to beat with Continuum obviously wasn't the desktop PC -- those are much higher margin sales for MS than a Windows Phone license. No, MS wanted to leverage its strength with the only viable desktop OS and professional apps to take win back some specific segments of users away from Android and iOS.
  • Hi techiez, the shift is evolutionary...it will improve with time and tech..Continuum came before the ultramobie PC, the ultramobile PC will introduce and define a category...Like all first generation products, it will take advantage of current tech, and as time goes on that category will evolve with the tech, becoming more powerful and more defined. Dismissing the notion out of hand because of the limitations of a first gen product isn't looking far enough. Everything, even the cell phone, remember Zac Morris' (from Saved by the Bell) forearm long cell phone that he had to carry in a backpack, (it definitely wasn't pocketable, and sure wasn't 'smart') had to start somewhere. And there we even more cumbersome models before that beast! But suppose someone dismissed cell phones when they were first introduced because of limitations like poor battery, poor portability, cost etc?
    Manufactures accepted the concept of this new category of communication, utilized then current tech, iterated with advancements in technology and now we have literal touch screen computers, with gigabytes worth of storage and RAM, built in cameras, and more that weigh ounces and can slip with ease into a pocket. I'm confident MS will press on with Continuum and what I believe will be a telephony capable ulltramobile Surface PC, and will define a category. It won't be all that the potential of the concept sets it up for out of the gates, but just as I think of Zach Morris' cell phone as I type this on the smartphone in my hand, years from now, as you use an ultramobile PC you'll likely look back at smartphones and ponder, "I remember when.."
  • An "Ultramobile PC" is about to be introduced tomorrow. Microsoft is going to be at least a year behind. If the Samsung catches on, Microsoft is going to have a hard time catching up. Again.
  • So, it turns out the S8 isn't the "ultra mobile" PC some were guessing, rather another incremental upgrade... But, isn't still has impressive specifications, and FINALLY a 6'2" screen, which is what I've been hoping for in a Lumia device for years...
    """Depending on your location the Galaxy S8/S8+ will be powered by Samsung’s own Exynos processor or the new Qualcomm Snapdragon 835 SoC. The Galaxy S8 will be 5.8-inch while the Plus is expected to come in at 6.2-inch, both Super AMOLED with QHD+ display resolutions (2400 x 2960) and 18:9 aspect ratio. Other specs include 4GB or 6GB of RAM, a 12-megapixel dual pixel rear camera, and an 8-megapixel front camera, IP68 waterproofing, wireless charging, and 3000mAh / 3500mAh batteries. The devices will run Android 7.0 Nougat..."""" Tight!
  • Not really. Any Windows 10 app you would run on phone hardware is going to have an Android equivalent. Office being one of the big ones. Even Office can bring my Surface Pro 3 to a crawl. Anything heavier than that and you will want a powerful laptop at least.
  • If you have no faith in anything here, why are you here wasting your time in a Windows community? Answer this..... ❓❓❓❓❓
  • I have been in the Windows community for years. I just want to see them release something new that has a chance. I would prefer to not see them continue down this failed path they are on. It won't be long before this website has to change its name again. "Microsoft Cloud Services Central"...
  • If people can do anything by android or ios why they will need pc. It's about user experience they put on other platform, not a monster Windows 10. Windows 10 mobile is limited to developer creativity. Android taking over all because their app development cost, they dont need to buy windows os and then buy visual studio to play with their creative minds. Google encourage developers because at the end they are the most creative persons of the eco system. 😀
  • Just had to read this comment again with the voice of Mark "Rent-boy" Renton (aka Ewan McGregor) giving his "Choose Life" monologue ;-)
  • Unless this new Surface Phone will cost $600 or less, it's not a replacement for Lumia. It will be a a modern version of the ancient Windows Mobile 6.5- running a desktop OS on a phone screen. And that wasn't really a success. Haven't they realized by now that people don't want a full desktop OS on a mobile platform? I don't even use my Continuum dock, because I always have something easier around me (my desktop, laptop, tablet). A Surface Phone... Seriously, what do they think its' use-case will be? Take it to lunch with co-workers and say "lemme whip out my Surface Phone so I can load up Adobe Photoshop real quick, while I play Halo 5 without a controller on this tiny screen". That's awkward even on the Surface Pro, and they want to pack that into a phone?
  • soylent writes: "Haven't they realized by now that people don't want a full desktop OS on a mobile platform? "   Even more relevant from my point of view is the question "Haven't they realised by now that people don't want a mobile OS on a full desktop?" I intensely dislike the enormous user interface elements working their way into every corner of W10.  They are totally inappropriate for a professional-level, dual-screen workstation with mouse and keyboard, and *no* touchscreen.  I think my mouse mileage has probably tripled as I navigate through these gigantic windows.  Compare the new Settings window with the old-style Control Panel.  It's about four times the area and surfaces a subset of the features. Don't misunderstand me: I love the new touch-friendly UI on my tablet and my Windows phone.  But on my workstation, no thank you!
     
  • I'm having a real problem caring about racking up more mouse mileage. It's really doesn't feel like all that much more work to me. I do feel like the UI should conform to how you use it better but I think the touch components suffer more from the desktop usage patterns than vice versa.
  • @Steve Thackery, I'm a dual screen user (an older 30" 2560x1600 display and a new 40" 4k model), so I should be in the same boat as you, but I don't understand your criticism. With Windows 8, I absolutely agreed -- it was nice on a tablet but annoying for the desktop user (and I HATED the separate Start Screen), but with Windows 10, I think it's better in just about every way than Windows 7 for desktop users. What takes extra work? Windows 10 has even added many more keyboard shortcuts over Windows 7, has added the Virtual Desktops where I keep some rarely used Windows for easy access with a keypress, Live Tiles give me a lot of information with a click on Start (and unlike Windows 8, that doesn't take away my desktop). And because it does also support touch seamlessly, it enables truly hybrid work modes on touch-enabled laptops, to the point that I could never revert to a non-touch laptop now (and alawys find myself touching the screens on them when I use someone else's). In fact, I find things like touch scrolling and zooming in e-mail, web browsing, Word, and Excel to be such a performance boost, I'm eager to buy the Dell Canvas when it comes out to add a third screen to my desktop PC so I can still gain those benefits when at my desk too. It's that last part where I can see that Windows on mobile/phone device could be amazing, if executed well. Imagine a tablet, 6" - 9" that you can put in your pocket, bag, or just carry around. You don't ever put it to your ear -- too big for that -- but it includes a great speakerphone and bluetooth headset. When you want to talk, just use one of those (depending on whether or not you need privacy), and when you want to do some work or play a game, you have a full Windows tablet with you. As you pointed out, Windows 10 is pretty good with touch. It's not a phone that can do some computer stuff. It's a computer and tablet that eliminates the need for a separate phone. At the very least, this could be dominant among current tablet users -- not an insignificant market segment. And, if you don't have a problem with a larger device, no reason you couldn't get it in a laptop form factor with a built-in keyboard. @rodneyej, is that about what you had in mind?
  • You've missed the point - No one should know or care it's a desktop OS. The problem with the old 6.5 mobile OS is that they tried to shoehorn the desktop experience on to a 3" screen. No one wanted that! ​The point of a "composable shell" (CShell) is that no matter what device you are on, the experience will be appropriate - who cares what's under the hood as far as the OS is concerned? We've already seen the "cloud" will remove support for non-store apps. That right there is a composable experience. As to the argument of a "mobile OS on a desktop" - it's what Apple are pushing right now with the "different type of computer" campaign citing an iPad Pro as a true alternative to a laptop or Mac Book. Really...? Even if that argument could be substantiated (beyond their huge plug for Microsoft Office) their lack of a composable shell is even more glaringly obvious than the "mouse milage" concerns raised here. Everyone is trying to do the same thing: Chromebook running Android apps, the iPad "Pro"... Only Microsoft has gone back to the drawing board and taken a look at experience over function. Granted iOS and the iPhone kick started this, but they never addressed the problems of upscaling a mobile experience properly. Even the iPad doesn't do it. It just spaces the icons out further to fil the screen! This has taken a lot of planning which goes way back before we even realised. This may seem like a long time to us as consumers, but Microsoft have been on this for far far longer. So to them another year means much less to a programme that started 10 or so years ago...
  • I got this HP 7" tablet running Win 10 Home. I find myself reaching for it over my 950 for a lot of full OS abilities, not least of which is apps. A Surface Pro like phone would kill two birds for me so I'm hanging for that, and wonder how many others will be doing the same. BTW had to use my Bluetooth.keyboard on my 950 so I could type this.
  • Exactly. I agree.. I've been wishing my Surface was my phone for a long time. The only thing my Surface can't do is make phone calls, and send text. It's browser is more powerful than WinMo10's, and without apps you need a fully capable browser... My Surface belongs in my pocket, and MS knows this.
  • I agree. However if the "phone" runs full W10 and UWP, then it is a pocketable desktop pc hard drive that has a touchscreen and stylus. It also makes calls too. That being said, the Adobe/Halo multitasking would be unlocked by a "continuum" brick that contains media in/out ports, mini RAM modules that are swappable, processor booster ( adds to phones ability) and graphics module. Plug it in to a TV and phone is the base processor and hard drive and the upgradeable module allows for full screen X86 ability etc. Both devices should fit in pockets. Then MS can beat android and iOS. Then why have an app when you can have the full program? Mobile mode on phone and PC mode when hooked to continuum and TV?
  • Stop thinking this is about "beating iDroid"... Seriously read these articles. MS is past that. If MS wanted to beat iDriod they would build another smartphone, but they aren't, and frankly aren't concerned with that. (supposedly) MS is looking to secure a mobile future for themselves by creating a Ultramobile category of their own. Will others copy MS? Yes, of course..... But, it won't be with a smartphone. W10 is MS's advantage here because it already supports this idea.. Forget mobile based iDroid.
  • But it's arguable that if they got over beating idroid, then they could have kept on doing what they were doing, obviously that strategy wasn't going to win, but it had some promise of at least being a respectable third alternative, rather than what it is now; irrelevant...
  • But, it a good long-term investment, and WP/Lumia doesn't fit into MS current device, and one core/W10, strategy..... MS is looking beyond the smartphone, and in order to make that product happen they needed to focus their hardware efforts on Surface, and their software efforts on these newer, more scalable, versions of W10.
  • I've commented on that elsewhere; UWP seemed promising, but hasn't really done much. There's heaps of desktop users, but MS app store pales in comparison to Google's or Apple's respective stores. I am somewhat sceptical now that the device 'beyond the smartphone' will actually see the success MS would like.
  • You're talking as if this is all fact and constantly correcting people for being wrong.
    Hopefully u are right but please remember you might just be blowing lots of smoke up lots of orifice's.
  • Only a fool would actually read my comments and spew nonsense about me talking facts.... I point out NUMEROUS times how nobody knows, and this is purely speculation on all of our parts.. Only a troll would read only what he wants to see, just to make a falsely negative comment as the one you just made... My comments are based on hope, and if you have a problem with me hoping for what I want,,, then you gotta problem. 😂😂😂
    Now, explain yourself🤔
  • Then u reply by calling me a fool, a troll and telling me "I" have a problem. My observation is really you are being a bully but I didn't say that, then your classy reply.
    Nice.
    I made a polite observation and that tirade is your response. You're all class.
    I hope what you are envisioning is correct, but you are talking as if this is done and is about to sweep the world. Neither you or I know that.
    Im not fighting against you at all so perhaps try a little humility?
    Hope what your saying comes off.
  • "You are talking as if this is done, and about to sweep the world".... Ummmm, where am speaking like this? See, you're still doing it. I'm not saying anything is definite, I've mentioned numerous times that It's all speculation... I'm saying its a possibility.. But, I see how you perceive things, and frankly I could care less about the way you go about comprehending things.. You're wasting my time, so done.
  • Your all class.
    How great it must be to be you. Clearly everything you say is right and I, and everyone else, are wrong.
    All heil the great man.
  • What kind of device do you use?
  • A Nokia 930 running WM10.....and I'm a huge (tho sometimes frustrated)MS/WP fan.
    Hate Android, dislike Apple.
    Shoots that troll theory.
  • Well, sir,,, don't let others ideas, hopes, and definitely they're guesses, and speculation, get to you. Just move on.
  • And same to you.
    FYI, I usually enjoy and agree with most of what u say.
  • I think what Microsoft is doing is crazy.  How many devices will people be willing to carry around?  What could be better than a phone with all the Microsoft bells and whistles?  Everyone needs a phone and practically everyone I know already owns a tablet. If you had to carry around just one most people are going to choose the phone. Sounds like what Microsoft is doing will be as popular as the smartwatch.
  • I have a suspicion that what you're saying is going to happen. The strategy idea makes sense (that is the abstract concept of category creation). The problem is, what can they possibly do to create a new category in the mobile space? Too many apps live in app world and don't exist on the PC or a browser. Leveraging desktop will only go so far and it hasn't really worked for the UWP, so why would it work now? I think apple and google have MS snookered. MS probably would have fared far better by going for the long hard slog than actually rebooting all the time, irritating users and developers alike.
  • @Mandy Fox, you just said it -- many people already carry both a tablet and a phone. For that user, what purpose does the phone serve? Why not combine them. MS can't win as a phone -- app gap too severe. But it does have strength when you get to larger form factors, including even tablet size devices. Why carry a phone when your tablet is also your phone? And if you happen to use a PC sometimes, wouldn't it by nice if your tablet could also perform some of those PC tasks and run the same apps (already set up so you buy once through the Store, and it's available on all your devices). I don't think MS is looking to create a new category as in an additional device for people to carry. I think they're planning on creating a new category that combines and eliminates existing categories, chiefly the independent, 6" and smaller smartphone. Keep in mind they've also been working on near-seamless folding screens, which would let you fit an 8" tablet in a pocket in your jeans. And wouldn't it be nice if that bluetooth headset were actually integrated into your tablet/phone, instead of a separate device with its own charger? Not really an option for a small phone, but becomes possible with something larger.
  • Since when has a phone really been a phone? They only hang on to that category because they support cellular capabilities and have a form factor that resembles a phone. We actualy already carry around computers that make phone calls via the use of an app. The phone app simply taps in to that cellular capability. But I can make phone calls from my tablet and PC using Skype, WhatsApp, Messenger and others. Does that make them a phone? No? It's too big to be a phone right? But put a bluetooth headset on and the experience is identical to having that same headset connected to your phone - I mean, small form factor tablet with cellular connectivity... Wait till eSIMs take off. Every motherboard/chipset will start to add the capability. Mainly to keep us always connected from a data perspective, butwhen that happens, every eSIM enabled device will be able to make/receve calls and send/receive text messages. The tru battle is moving to form factor and what you can do with that - not the apps you run on it!
  • It definitely would not be for everyone, at first... Then again, neither were smartphones.... Your comment reads like those stubborn who wouldn't give up their Blackberries for an iPhone... (coming from a man who won't give up his Windows Phone😂😂).....But, we all need to open our minds, and accept change.
  • They have lost all mind share in the space -- they have nothing left.  There are few developers who care, the wireless companies do not care, the way they have executred shows they do not care and there a few fans left to care.   Nobody cares.  It is too late.  From a business perspective, pump-up the volume on Azure in the business space and be ready to destroy Sony on the console side.  The phone is lost, just let it die and give the resources to the Surface group to make better hybid laptop/tablet.
  • MS's only real play to get any usage would be to create rom images for popular phones. Then they wouldn't have to sell devices just load the custom rom onto your galaxy or HTC device. If they also added the ability to use android apps running sandboxed then they would have some kind of direction that made sense but I've not seen any kind of movement in that direction.
  • The android app sandbox/emulation/runtime option would make the difference. Processors are powerful enough now. I got an android smartphone for the apps i want to use to make life easier, but i still prefer most of what i have with my 950xl
  • They actually DID do that, right before when Windows 10 Mobile was close to be a final 10 release (Windows 10 Build 10240). It was released in the Chinese market for an Android device. I think the device originally was made for Cyanogen Android, but could be I remember it wrong. In any case, Joe Belifiore announced it back in the day, that I do remember.
  • Agree with the need to retain mind-share. Not for profit in the space now, but for leverage, and later.
  • @NutmegState, you're talking about the PHONE space. Jason's whole point with this and other articles is that Microsoft's approach in mobile is not to sell a phone, but to bring phone capabilities to your tablet and computer so a phone becomes a waste of money. Microsoft is completely dominant with PC's and decent (albeit not at all dominant) in the tablet space. That's the market they'll build from. Not with a new smartphone, but with a small mobile PC that includes phone capabilities. Maybe you'll never be expected to put it your ear like a phone. Maybe you will only talk via BlueTooth devices or speakerphone. But whatever it is, it almost certainly won't be a phone.
  • I still feel like the industry is sending and receiving mixed signals. Microsoft is mum, but HP seems pretty dedicated to supporting their Elite X3 (how many firmware updates has it been since launch now?), and then we recently got news that the seemingly half-hearted effort of the Alcatel Idol 4S wasn't so half-hearted and is preparing for a European release, and who knows what's really going on at WhartonBrooks. Granted, there isn't much other hardware-related news in recent days, but the "writing on the wall" doesn't fully match up with what we have heard. To use Jason's metaphor, I think it would be better if we were even partially informed of the current plans instead of being strung along with (possibly) false hopes. Even if the plans change, we need to hear more than a short MS executive quote once every few months reiterating their "continued support for mobile". If mobile really is going away, it's not going to hurt the "tiny" one percent of us with working devices. If it's not going away, tell us and show us something a little more concrete. Communication is the key. Yes, we are a minority one percent, but that still adds up to millions of people actively using a Windows-powered mobile device. Anyone that is willing to support us will surely have a captive audience and plenty of genuine fans willing to engage--this is directed at all app developers and hardware manufacturers too. Just talk to us, Microsoft!
  • Agree.
  • i agree.. communication is the key. and sorry i accidently reported your comment.
  • 😂😂😂😂
  • @dandrayan, I share your sentiment, but I may disagree on communication. Yes, I want to know what MS is doing, but that might be really bad business for MS. If they are planning something different, maybe even different than all the things we imagine they might be planning, and they told us anything that could let their competitors forecast their plans. That would be very bad for MS. I think they have to keep their mouths shut, even thought it puts us Windows Phone users in a painful position. It doesn't take much in the way a few words from MS to signal smart competitors to their plans. Even something cryptic, which probably wouldn't help us much anyway, would be carefully parsed and dissected to determine what direction MS is going. Samsung, Apple, Google -- they have some smart people who would act on that. So, when MS fails to communicate, don't lose heart, take it as evidence (based on the Surface and Surface Book and Surface Studio) that they are working on something interesting. But for it to come out ready, not-rushed, and still be category defining, they MUST keep quiet about it until they're close to launch.
  • That's a great point, and another frustration many--including myself--have with Microsoft. They have a tendency to over-promise and under-deliver (WP8 Apollo update, W10M, Continuum), or deliver too late (WP7, Windows phones in general, GATT support), or kill the project when it was finally gaining some momentum and desirability (MS Band, the Lumia line of phones, Project Astoria). Every 6-12 months, we see a great new batch of features cranked out from the walls of Apple HQ and Google HQ. Nine months after the Anniversary Update, the W10M Creator's Update basically gets a new Share icon, a redesigned wifi settings page, and GATT support for smartwatches. Hopefully, as you said, they're working on something interesting that isn't complete and can't be shown yet, because the number of high-profile features in this update is extremely disappointing after an early promise from Dona Sarkar herself that RS2 would be focused on mobile and also looking at the much larger list of new features (especially Night Light and floating windows in Groove and Movies & TV) that only the desktop SKUs of Windows 10 is getting. This disappointment could have been mitigated if, once again, Microsoft would have just communicated clearly with us about the changes in direction.
  • Jason.. One angry customer is all it takes to take a small company down. Microsoft has 100 million of them. The companys downfall is in full motion..
  • Except the only thing ignored more than Windows mobile are Windows Mobile fans. Ignored by everybody. You know that right?
  • What?🤔🤔🤔🤔
  • While that comment was inelegent, I see his point. I tried jumping all in with Microsoft. I bought a Dell Venue 11 Pro when it first came out believing in the detachable tablet hybrid future of Windows 8 and all I got was an expensive, heavy tablet that never has been very good (for example, stylus has never worked and I had two, so I gave up on that "feature") when I could have bought a midrange laptop and iPad for the same money. Then I stuck it out with my 920 when they skipped the 94x generation on AT&T. I get the 950XL and Band 2 when they both first come out. I'm on my third Band (Microsoft did replace) and my 950XL crapped out in 9 months and the retailer gave me store credit. So last October I jumped off the sinking boat. All this to say, I can tell you I will be very, very hesitent to ever buy a non-PC Windows/Microsoft product again (what I assume was meant by the 100 million angy fans). Yet in this relationship analogy, I'm like the ex who was abused then dumped but still love the ex. For some reason I keep checking their Facebook page (Windows Central) and long after them even though I know they are no good for me. If it wasn't for my love for my ex's hot body (my beautiful red 920 hardware) I would have bought a midrange laptop and been happy with it (and not still using my Venue 11 Pro to try to justify the high cost), had bought a OnePlus 2 (I was longing after it even as I was waiting for the 950XL to be announced) and had a nice Fitbit that doesn't break every 4 months. Wow, maybe I need to go to counseling to get over my ex!
  • So,,,,,, you're a banker, and you were born in 1985??? Is that what you're trying to tell us?
  • To be honest, it became clear to me early on that this was going to be a one sided relationship.
    Remember back when Windows Phone 7 launched and Microsoft promised they'd do things differently than Google by providing the upgrades themselves and not orphaning devices on outdated version of the OS?
    Then remember just 2 short years later when they changed their minds and abandoned Windows Phone 7 devices with the release of Windows Phone 8?
    Sure, there were excuses about performance, but my Dell Venue Pro was at least on par with low-mid range WP8 launch devices, so that was total BS.
    Don't get me wrong, I love Windows Phone, I just know that Microsoft doesn't care about me.
  • While WP8 and then WP8.1 brought some much needed features, yea, I agree. The big one was when Nokia entered midway with the Lumia 800 and 900, that's when a lot of people jumped over, and they only got a year out of it. The outcry was huge at the time, had they let those users go with natural attrition, rather than making it clear that it's dead, it probably would have turned out quite differently. Especially rebooting with W10M, WP8 definitely should have been updates on WP7 rather than a new OS.
  • Communication is key and Microsoft has sucked big time at that in the past. I was a Lumia 800 user until they gave me that ridiculous 7.8 update. Later, I got the Lumia 925, great phone, loved it. Became W10 insider (also due to their promises at the Build conference that we would get the W10m update) and was let down again. That was the point for me to jump ship. You can give me the "middle finger" once, but not twice, I'm not a *********.
  • Hey Jason, As a dinosaur (I'm 60) living in this brave new world, it is refreshing to hear someone just "tell-it-like-it-is". My generation misses that. Thanks man. By the way, I don't form my opinion on your articles based on if they are good news or bad news. (for me, that is) Instead, I just want to hear a well though out viewpoint that is based on the evidence. You are reliable source for just that! From a still happy carrier of the SP4, L2520, and my beloved 950XL. Cheers Jason
  • Hi Jason,   Thanks for writing such an incredibly thoughtful article as a journalist! I am impressed how you tied the real to life situations akin to the business perspectives. It was an article that expressed a true business viewpoint, while still allowing for the love of a product that the 1% still respect. Yes, Microsoft is a business above all and sometimes you have to make decisions that will not please everyone. Zune is an example - how sad. The Band 2 is another, although I have my hopes that when the Surface Phone comes out, there will be a glimmer of hope for this wonderful band which the rubber wrist portion has cracked.   Users don't understand that for MS to continue on the path of another smart phone, it would be making a phone for that 1%. No sensible company regardless of size would envision or support that. The new Mobile Phone when it comes out will likely have a consumer version, but the focus I am sure will be enterprise and that makes business sense - entering an area that MS has a lot of experience and users can afford to pay for top technology. The average consumer user is looking for that Android Bargain phone and will shy away from the Windows phone since it is an unknown entity to them.   It sure is great that finally MS will be controlling the updates like Apple does. I know the apps were a problem, but the updates contributed to it also, especially when an AT&T sales person tries to divert you from a Windows phone to an Android or Apple due to commission.   So yes, we should understand as you indicate, even though it might not be a pleasant pill to swallow. MS has to keep things close to it’s vest cause the competition who already has a strong hold on their market share and easily pop out phones at a moment’s notice to defuse what MS is trying to accomplish. Hopefully they will WOW! Us all with what the Windows Phone platform could and should be and maybe we can get our fair share of that 10-20% of the market that we could get. After all Apple does not own it all, Android has the largest share – a huge difference between the two of them in market share..   Again awesome article –really enjoyed reading!   Roger  
  • I have been an Windows Phone user since the beginning with Samsung Focus, Lumia 810, and now Lumia 650.  Being a retired IT National Consultant for corporations, I see the Microsoft big picture and the logic behind it.  Especially a single source code across multiple devices, much like 4GL database lanuages have done for decades.  My and my spouse's changing of phones was always prompted by changes in the Windows OS that required hardware changes.  This time around I chose an inexpensive phone, Lumia 650, rather than the Lumina 950  to get me back into an OS Update process that I lost with the loss of support for the 810, but it kept my invenstment minimal and in effect was done to buy time while Microsoft makes it's next move, however long that may take.  I also am still using a non-touch screen i7 laptop, upgraded since Windows 7, until  what might happen in the mobil areana, (possibly a combination of the Laptop and Phone development)  that Microsoft may offer in the future.  Thus in my case, not a lot of money has been invested, I can suffer the slowness of the 650, but I am comfortable in a "wait and see" position.  As you implied, my upgrade to a new future replacing my laptop and phone may be a combined solution into perhaps a single device with some external supplimental devices..  Fine by me.  I've always liked the way Windows Phones functioned.  I still consider Android and Apple as "ToyRus" glorified iPods.  App count was always a stupid issue to me, how many Fart apps do you need?  I am happy being a 1%'er pending the future, because what Microsoft is doing makes total sense when you look at the big picture and puts them into a much better position to grow both business' and consumer's computing abilities than Google or Apple.  All consumer's work for a business or own one, which will probably be using Windows, so the consumer benefit will happen as more of a by-product supporting their work.
  • I believe you already said almost anything about this MS- Windows phone fan relationship. I would rather call it consumer and producer relationship. And, YES, most of us if not all are frustrated with what's happening. Many consumers are loyal especially those with Lumias BUT, Microsoft isnt just as loyal to us. Think about a Big Brother leaving a hopeful of siblings or a party or a group. That is how us consumers feel. But then again, it's bussiness world- going where the money is. As we can see MS provide better support for Other OS who becomes interested with thier stuff but never...and even leave hanging thier own turf. Maybe Microsoft bigwig thinks that if they leave these guys on OS they stopped supporting consumers will be forced to jump to the new stuff. But, that is unlikely, TRUST IS THE ISSUE HERE. Most will probably jump to other OS. Everybody feels that if Microsoft have done this to us in the past, it is Likely that that is how Microsoft would treat thier consumers again and again. Leave them hanging and keep them hopeful. ( with lies maybe????)
  • Hey, Rubino! Give this man a raise.
  • Daniel Rubino Boss???? Hahahaha😂😂😂😂😂.... Go higher.
  • So the question is; "Does Microsoft still care about Windows phone loyalists?" The short answer is no. In many ways Windowsphone was an anomaly. The promise of a "new device category", what is called "SurfacePhone", is also not really true if we mean a mobile pocket sized computer that can make calls. Up until 2006 such devices existed as part of the Microsoft ecosystem. The PocketPc running Windows CE looked like Windows, had a stylus, was an expensive device for the enterprise. One of the most popular was the iPaq. No one pretended it was for consumers. The Windows Mobile operating system, again Windows CE, got us devices like the Palm Treo. It was an enterprise device focussed on Exchange integration using ActiveSync. if you had one it was provided as a business tool. At launch the iphone couldn't do Exchange Activesync and was useless for business users, as Steve Balmer explained at the time.  What changed was that Apple added in key business features and came in to the enterprise as a guerilla device that had to then be supported. At this point Windowsphone went in the opposite direction. Windowsphone was the "most personal device ever", removed it's Windows look and feel intiallly (Windows 8 hadn't been launched) and ditched enterprise features such as supporting VPN for outside secure connection. Microsoft entered it's Apple envy stage where Windowsphone was full customer device. However it had no track record in that market, no carrier backing and a US centric view of a global mobile market. After 3 reboots of the OS from 7 to 8 to 10 we are on the cusp of reboot 4. Reboot 4 will, according to speculation, be something that looks like "real Windows 10", be a PC in your pocket and make calls. Welcome back 2006! Maybe call it the Surface iPaq to bring back the old name (assuming HP dont want to re-use it). The consumer Windowsphone years were out of place. The fan of Windowsphone was not something an enterprise company could handle. Making exciting and compelling consumer devices is really the Xbox Team. The fourth reboot is going to be the CShell with a device that hasn't spoken its name. Undoubtably existing Lumia devices will not be upgradable. This is the story of Windowsphone reboots.  The new Surface iPaq Pocket PC Windows 10 cshell 64 bit will be the exciting tool that will be able to connect to line of business apps, access cloud services on Azure, read barcodes on warehouse boxes and be skillfully used for productivity. Everyone who has one in the enterprise will be carrying their personal iphone or Android device in their other pocket. 
  • I think your "third party" service is on the money. I'm curious about how UWP and W10M figure into W10ARM's development.
  • That last line was my first thought reading the headline. Mic drop and a great read thanks.
  • Microsoft doesn't listen and doesn't care. IMO windows mobile is perpetually on the back burner
  • I think it a massive shame the way this appears to be going as the concept of Windows mobile is by far a better and more versatile manner of utulisement than IOS, Andriod or anything else. The real problem why it has not taken off suffficiently is the lack of advertising, most people are not willing to change by nature and do not know what the system is capable off and hence lays the real problem.
  • if you like hand me over the resources for advertising Windows mobiles and I will turn it around big time.
  • I loved your plays and contextual changing titles. It was quite an entertaining read :)
  • Presumably, this pocketable ultramobile Surface PC will retain all of its strengths as a Windows 10 PC while acquiring attributes of a phone. That all sounds good.
    No it doesn't. Quite the opposite, in fact. It sounds dreadful. Its sounds boring. It sounds desperate. Desperate in that it's trying to steer the conversation away from smartphones without actually offering anything compelling in its place. We all instinctively feel that the current smartphone will eventually evolve into something that can do much more. In its current format it's just getting stale. However, that evolution will start from the current smartphone and not from a PC.  What you are describing is something that will attempt to pretend that smartphones never happened. "Acquiring attributes of a phone" sounds like it's enough to simply add to be ability to make a phone call to a PC and then we can call it day. That is completely missing the point of what makes smartphones so popular in the first place. Put in another way: how do you think the reaction would be if Apple were to announce that their next device iDevice would be running macOS with "attributes of a phone" instead of iOS? Do you expect the world to go "yes, that's what we always wanted" or rather "uh, have they completely lost it"? You may point out that Windows 10 (as opposed to macOS) has been made much more flexible in that it can run on a lot of different form factors. But to this I say: it doesn't matter. The mobile parts of Windows 10 are nothing more then academic in nature. As a platform that is actively used by consumers and supported by developers, it's a wasteland. It might just as well not exist.
    ...and the target market for that device will be much larger than we few hold outs.
    Couldn't disagree more. Because you are going to end up with a PC in a small form factor in which consumers will miss most of what they currently enjoy in their smartphone. To who other then some businesses will this appeal? This doesn't sound like MS glorious re-entry in the mobile space. It sounds like another Surface Studio of which they can sell in the thousands instead of in the millions. Each time you mention "ultramobile Surface PC" in your articles I feel a sense of dread. I do not get a feeling of "Yes, that's it. I can't wait until it gets here". I don't get that AT ALL. I simply don't get your (and Microsoft's ?) enthusiasm for this ultra-whatever-thing.  
  • I'd like to say yes, but the fact that I literally can't buy any Windows Phones from either local retailers or from the Microsoft Store itself says otherwise (Note: in Australia). Ok, not quite true as I can buy the HP Elite x3 from the latter but at AU$1,099 I'm not going to be in a hurry to do so (the 6" is too big as well). The entire Lumia line has disappeared, despite me wanting to buy a 550 for my Dad and for my mum to upgrade her 920 to a 950. As much as I hate to admit it, we may all be forced to move to Android (Apple isn't even a consideration)
  • You can still buy a 950/950xl for your mum. You can also get a 650 and 640. Have you looked around? Companies will deliver to Australia. I know because I live in Australia. Yes, it's frustrating not having a choice, but our house has an X3, 950xl, 650 and 2 640xl's. I am waiting patiently for the Cerulean, and wondering if the Idol 4S or newer version will come to Aus. (and the Surface device as well!!)
  • Yeah, I am aware of the online options - it's just sad that there are literally no retail options available anymore. Having to resolve warranty issues with online retailers, besides MS, are more painful and can cost money to resolve. I've always preferred to buy mobiles from physical stores for an easy place of return, if necessary. If MS want us to believe they're still in the game they have to give us something to buy! You would think that the MS store would at least be the one place we could count on to buy MS products.
  • Some stores still have stock and even have them out on display here in Sth Aust
  • Do you know which stores? I'm in Perth and none of the phone carriers have them anymore. The usual stores don't stock them either (JB, Officeworks, GoodGuys, Harvey etc)
  • I am sure Microsoft cares but it just stops there.
  • Loyalist? Hmm. These so called loyalists don't give a hoot about how the original 7.x has been destroyed so Microsoft should feel good that they can put out any crap and these loyalist will eat 🍴 it up as if they are given something special. I root for MS but what they've done to the beautiful Metro design is ungodly and shameful.
  • I agree. Historically, I've been both the biggest cheerleader (having convinced quite a few people over the years to switch) and biggest critic (attacking MS ever time they ruined one of the capabilities that attracted me to the platform to begin with).  I think it's clear they're done.  There IS NO ultimately mobile device because there's no device at all.  There aren't any plans for such a thing and no OEM is lining up to get on that bandwagon. We see absolutely NO evidence of the kind.  Expect no hardware from MS.  Those of us who have been grasping for the last thread of the existence of Windows Phone/Mobile will probably keep our current devices until either they don't function anymore or MS pulls the plug on the last app.  I vehemently disagree with anyone who believes W10M is better than WP8 was.  They only think that because it's closer to Android with a skin.  The worst thing to happen to MS was that idiot Satya Nadella, and I would gladly tell that to his face.
  • Absolutely AGREE!  I have seen NOTHING in WP10 that's remotely close to being better than 8.X.  You are so right.  Just because WP10 has tiles doesn't mean it's really a "Windows Phone".  It's something else.  Reminds me of the movie "Invasion of the Body Snatchers.".  It looks the same but something isn't quite right. It's missing something - a soul.  This iteration (WP10) is soul-less.  Unlike some I still have a running 7.X device running in my household.  And that version of WPhone is gorgeous. 
  • If we're talking about the original vision, it peaked at WP8.0.3
  • I agree, too.  WP8.1 is better in almost every way than W10M.  "Almost" because the Settings page in WP8.1 is a mess and is much better in W10M. I feel it was a dreadful mistake to abandon the sublime and beautiful UI elements and animations of WP8.1.  They did so because it was making it harder for Android and iOS developers to port their apps to Windows phones.   Now, sadly, we've had those clunky hamburgers and triple-dots foisted upon us (I *still* can't remember when to use which), which means, as ScubaDog says, that W10M is pretty much like Android-with-live-tiles.   Honestly, they had the most innovative and exciting new UI concepts for years with WP8.1.  It made iOS and Android look like clunking hangovers from the last century.  And then they went and flushed the whole lot down the toilet!  
  • I'm okay with that metro design that they did that on WP8; since I didn't use it. ​But the fact that they also pushed it to Windows 8 on desktop was horrendous. I hated how it looked and how it worked. Luckily they came to their senses before they dragged their whole Windows on desktop brand down as well. ​Since the creators update they finally removed the last thing that irrated me so much, the share menu on the sides. On PC the original metro design was the worst design I've ever used since I used computers.
  • The devices have been lackluster for the past few years. I still miss my Lumia 720 and 925 designs.
    The 950 XL is horrible, better than the 930 but still horrible.
  • 950xl is DEFINITELY not horrible. Not sure what universe you live in. It's a great device.
  • It's horrible. That's why it sits in my drawer. I even got a Mozo case to make it look better. That's just talking about aesthetics. The software was what really disenchanted me with the device. The first three months was bad software all the way. Who releases a phone that can't be a daily driver on release day and takes three months to address that?
    Microsoft does.
    So no, ever since MS took over from Nokia - the phone design has been crap and the OS has been bug ridden.
    Major fails.
  • You can have officially W10M on the Lumia 730, which has the same design as the 720/920.
  • W10M on 730 (and 640) is horrible. Switched to Android about a year ago. After hard reset, removing all the junk and just 2 apps (WhatsApp & Telegram) it runs smooth for a while then everything goes downhill. Sluggish UI, freezing settings and notification centre, cellular and battery icons disappear etc. Gave away my 730 to grandma but I still have 640 with me. I keep it up to date but there's no difference. Waiting for the update. If it's good then I will switch back to Windows. Even my friend's 950XL is sluggish as hell. 
  • @spazzmeister Put a sweet case on it
  • Agree with only the last part, the only place where satya should stay is into jail If satya will become a ceo of a bank i will NEVER put my money into that bank
  • He would "retrench" your money!!! :)
  • Exactly! Doh
  • lmao
  • Yep. Nutella has been God awful and his hypocritical ass should have been thrown to the street a long time ago. The fact that Microsoft has kept him this long after making his views know, is alarming.
  • Well all that matters to a CEO these days is the company's stock price. It's their job to get it up. It had gone from the 40's to the 60's and that also means bigger bonus at the end the year.. If it means closing money losing divisions they will do it.
  • What you are saying is totally true...the CEO name was directly tied to the company and they were more worried about their image and the company's image than their stock options. That said, I wasn't really referring to that. I was talking about his comments about women making less in the workforce. Any of us in this comments section make those comments and we are all fired and on the street in the blink of an eye. Yet, Nutella, gets to blow it off as a cultural thing it that is suppose to make all right. The board should be disgusted with itself for not canning him the minute that crap left his mouth.
  • Nutella, it says it. I think he doesn't understand user interface. He's experience is in the cloud. He can't appreciate Windows interface. Aside from that, what kind of CEO would crush over 10% market share in some countries and ignore the fact that it would be very difficult to get people come back to it's Mobile "most ultimate" devices?
    I spent my money on Band 1 and Band 2 and he even removes the Health app that I need to work with the data. A part time developer/student can keep an app successfully going, but this behemoth of corporation was loosing it's shirt on the Health app!?
    It looks like he's hired by a competitor but they they told him just sit in that MS Office cause you can do more damage from high up and inside.
  • Not only health app. They have so many apps where almost nothing happens. One single developer could maintenance probably 10 apps and giving some features once in a while. But nothing happens. The bad thing is, that it's not only affecting mobile also the desktop version, so what happens here?
  • Yep, Nutella and his cloud BS. Cloud is going to be a non-profitable crap-shot. Eventually there will be so many players trying to grab customers that they will keep undercutting each other, and eventually we will be paying $5 a year for 10TB. Again, short-sighted idiot.
  • Ignorance is bliss.
  • I've been listening to your comments about Nadella for some time now.... All I gather is that you love this man, and applaud him for being the best CEO in history... I could be reading you wrong, though.
  • Yep. I love him like the clap and herpes.
  • Oh. Good. That's pretty much what I gathered. Cool!
  • I hear reference to people getting other people to switch but where I am I see none of that.   Out of 2 local computer groups when asking if anybody has a Windows phone, out of 50 people in one audience, we had 1 (one) person.   I tried to find people with a Windows phone who is not ( a ) a Microsoft or Microsoft Store employee and ( b ) not an  MPV. Basically to find somebody who purchased it by choice.  I found one... in Sweden... on a Linux forum. All that marketing and talking just didn't reach the East Coast even when this tiny state has 2 Microsoft Stores. So for intent and purposes, the Windows Phone was not marketed well, or marketed to consumers.  There was little to no opportunity to convince people to move from their precious iPhone/Android and it shows. It was a fail.. before it failed.  Phones were tucked into the back corner of the store where one would not run across them unless they were looking for it.  I don't think 1/2 of the population around here even knows Microsoft makes a phone, even after all this time.
  • @ScubaDog, while we can't know the secrets behind what's visible, there is definitely evidence we can look to: huge investments into UWP, Windows 10 on ARM, the Store, Continuum, ads to hire mobile OS developers, etc. All of those only make sense if there's to be a mobile version of Windows, whatever that may be. Different people can reach different conclusions about what that evidence means and what MS intends to do in the mobile space, but I don't think you can say there's "NO evidence" that Microsoft has further plans for its own mobile OS.
  • In a way, I was at least glad WP7.x apps could work on WP8.x and W10M.
  • This is the sad thing; there still are many apps from WP7 in the store. There was genuine good will for it with developer support. MS flushed it all down the toilet with the OS reboots. WP8 and WP8.1 brought some much needed features. Problem is, it spurned a lot of good will, at a critical time when they needed it most as well, from developers and users alike.
  • Windows phone is for geeks and Microsoft fans only. Just like that. So not interested for most of the world.
  • If apps are same like other platform Windows 10 mobile also will catch their own market place same like android and iOS.Windows 10 mobile is a perfect and beautiful os that's why.
  • It's not perfect and no longer beautiful. It was beautiful as WP8.
    It's too late for them now. Samsung and Apple have really choked MS out of the market.
  • I thought I liked WP8 better as well but then I tried using WP8 again recently, it was not easy going back from W10M. Don't understand the "soul of OS" someone mentioned in comments earlier, but W10M can do do so much more.
  • true.you have to install app for qr code.wp8 had it in it. sooo much more :D
  • Can it?  Like what? It can also do so much less.  You can't automatically silence on calendar events any more - you can in WP8.1.
  • Samsung should partner with MS on phones to decrease it's dependence on Google. Apple should bring its apps and services to W10 and W10M because Apple is losing the mobile war in terms of market share.
  • "Apple is losing the mobile war in terms of market share" They actually been pretty stable, and continued to sell the bulk of premium handsets (where the profits are).
  • "Samsung should partner with MS on phones to decrease it's dependence on Google" If Samsung wanted to ditch android they wouldn't go Windows. Tizen is where is at for Samsung. 
  • For "if" conditions there is no place. Nice OS without app support from developers is dead OS.
  • We can use Windows 10 mobile fully enjoy as a daily driver with third party apps.
  • They are just committed to WM but not a true competitor in consumer and even in enterprise market
  • I wish the answer has yes, but obviously not. If they even had "me too" Windows Phones in the market that kept a 5%-6% fan base, we would have a bit better app base and give UWP a bit of hope. When I meet with folks from MS and they don't even have Windows Phones......
  • That is one thing that annoys me, is the fact that MS folks don't use WM! Disgrace.
  • They do care but
    Many App Developers don't care Microsoft's efforts...
  • What efforts should developers care about, completely decimating their mobile audience and thus potential revenue? Yeah, right.
  • Developers were f***ed so many times just by changing whole guidelines for WP. WP 7.x, than you had to rewrite app for 8.0, 8.1 was again completley different and finally W10 with UWP is a great hope but at this point everybody is gone.
  • Well back when Balmer declared open source to be a cancer no developer could support such a company.
  • Disagree, if they really cared they'd be doing more to keep what few main stream apps are left. BBC UK pulling their apps, sky and virgin never supported and others leaving slowly. Imho MS support their apps on other platforms more than they do on their own platform. Sad times but sadly true. I've been to several Build shows in the UK and they had some great plans, many haven't happened, like any windows 8.1 compatible phones will be get windows 10. This didn't happen with them killing all xx0 models. A large chunk of their user base gone. I've always been a loyal MS user even when they purchased and killed the Nokia brand of windows phone. I would say like with most companies they don't show loyalty to customers once they have your money. Microsoft is no difference. My opinion.
  • ..dupe.post..
  • Nokia killed itself. Full stop. Microsoft used what it could of the carcass and now Android has what's left.
  • exactly.
  • the ceo doesnt, the current ceo use iphones, the last one used windows phone for him its out out sight out of mind the olny reason hes even a little interested is the stock holders, and hp.
  • They care about mobile only enough to prepare for a possible future in which Apple or another competitor finally gets the "mobile computer" device released. Then, MS will play catch up for a couple of years before folding their cards again and leaving their most loyal of fans in the dust and dark...again. Until then, we can only assume there is zero interest in supporting existing users.
  • I use to have a windows phone, outlook, office 365 the whole thing... Its not that the hardware is bad its that there are no apps plain and simple!!! I have work apps I absolutely need and then other apps that are convenient...  Gsuite as well has advantages over outlook etc.  Unless Windows can solve the app issue yes it is a dead ecosystem.. I love my android phone and Blackberry saw the light and just came out with a nice Android keyboard phone.... Using the Pixel Xl is a pleasure.. Sorry Windows guys there will be no flagship windows phones until the apps are in place and that is a problem no one seems to have solved
  • Yes I agree the lack of support from app developers is very frustrating.  One work around is to use the mobile web version of an app.  Generally some features are missing on the web version but often it is good enough.  Considering the number of Surface notebooks and other Windows 10 PC's out there I am surprised that developers continue to ignore Windows apps.  Perhaps the dev tools need another overhaul.
  • Yes I agree the lack of support from app developers is very frustrating.  One work around is to use the mobile web version of an app.  Generally some features are missing on the web version but often it is good enough.  Considering the number of Surface notebooks and other Windows 10 PC's out there I am surprised that developers continue to ignore Windows apps.  Perhaps the dev tools need another overhaul.  
  • My biggest problem is random blank screen bug while unlocking the phone. Please help me to resolve this issue so many people are affected to this bug still it's not in a priority to be fixed.
  • Good luck.  MS has had an issue, for whatever reason, with unlocking procedures they can't seem to fix.  Unlock/Power On issues on Surface RT, Surface Pro, Lumia Phones, etc.
  • Didn't think we had bugs or so the hard core fans who kiss MS ass say.
  • Why do you say sweet things to a girl just to sleep with her and later tell her you no longer interested cuz you came late? This is what Microsoft is telling us....they don't really care cuz even the few of us left will leave when they emerge with the Windows on ARM thing cuz there will be no OTA OS update for current devices making someone like me experience this 4 times with Microsoft alone. The moment I hear no upgrade plans for my beloved L950 I'm done. Already S8 is calling me, after all it's also coming with DeX (it's continuum experience).
  • Your Lumia 950 will get Creators Update, Redstone 3 etc. These are upgrades. So, your Lumia is fully supported.
  • I think there is a contradiction here... MS cares about fans, but hasn't done anything to show it; or MS doesn't care about fans, BUT is using them as guinea pigs to test builds to release the final version to the business client (insider program). One of this sentences is correct, but which one...?
  • Well, the Lumia 950 was "for the fans". It was a **** of a phone on release. The release software was atrocious. The January update made it useable. That was the worst phone released by MS. That homage to fans should tell you how much Microsoft cares.
  • I've been saying for a while now it's the latter argument.  But it seems some people don't want to hear that they are being used as guinea pigs.  They actually think they are helping or providng Microsoft with some uber informtion and they are ground zero in this "beta" scheme Microsoft has unleased.  I'm going to say it once again.  All these beta test builds takes Microsoft off the hook for actually developing something faster to provide to the public.  There is no sense of urgency when these "loyalist" are clamouring for the next build or ring or whatever.  Instead of demanding or clamouring for the next "real" OS update.  I still believe its a ruse being played.  But it also seemed to me the Android folks have taken over Windows developement because the current iteration doesn't resemble the beautiful Metro design at all.  Other than the tiles.
  • The thing I don't get is that WP did reach double digit share in some countries, at one point even 15 or even 18%. And this was back in 2013 or 2014. The other thing that held back the platform was Microsoft adding hardware support. In a world of 2-3 GB phones we had 1 GB maximum. In a world of 4+ core CPUs we were limited to dual core 1.5 GHz and so on. I mean, W10M does support SD820, 821 and 835, but what about midrange and low end chips? SD430? SD625, 652?
  • Those double digit market share numbers were built on the Nokia name and the cheap price of the L520. Nothing more. Microsoft and Nokia hoped those buyers would then upgrade to the new devices, but it didn't happen. Android caught up performance wise on the low end and as a result the new phones didn't sell(530, 730, 830, 930, Ativ S, HTC M8, etc). Nokia was leaving and Microsoft was forced to buy them out. They realized it hopeless soon after that and retrenched.
  • And by this point, people either don't care or are annoying by the OS. They should just push W10M to literally everyone so people could a) enjoy a modern platform and b) be motivated to get a faster phone? You know, like how the competition does it.
    And given W10M RS2 is finally great in design, features and reliability, now is the best time to do so. TH1 was a joke on phones, TH2 was decent and RS1 was where it really hit its stride. RS2 is just further polish on RS1.
  • You mentioned "great design, features...".  What great features does WP10 have?  And I am being serious.  What great features does WP10 have that WP8.X or WP7.X didn't have?  And yes and know there are a few.  But I just want to hear it from someone who thinks WP10 is great. 
  • Incoming "Continuum". Never used it, not interested.
  • I have used it... it's kinda cool, but I'm not interested. I got the dock for free with my 950 and it's been sitting in my drawer ever since. At least I got an extra charger and another USB-C cable...
  • cool i can trey and help you there.  I loved 8.1 mobile and think its the best os on a mobile ever but truth is in 2016 i moved my 930 to window s10.  Yeh it was worst on battery, i missed the pivoting, the facebook photo albums intigration to my photos, bigest still was gestures beta that let me plave a ongoing call on table and speakerphone just came on, their all missing and more from windows 10 yet windows 10 had enough good things to get me to install it.  It had a gorgeos tiled personlised method,  here maps was great on it, notifiction panel improved loads, setting menu is so sos o much better and easyer, remember the really long constant list.  Still The past features should have been brought to windows 10, and alot did after about 12 months lol but alot still havent.   but after here maps was abandoned on windows 10 and paypal and myfitnesspal left windows 10 recently, i too left, i now have a worst os on a equally premium feeling s7 edge(i loved my 930 lumia and still do) and all working apps i could want, nearly, android does not have as many apps as iphone, thats just a lie.  But still i have all the apps windows was missing like, santander bank app, myfitnesspal, paypal, here go, pokimon(yeh i went there lol).  I have a vodaphone app, google you tube app, even though i loved metrotube and tubecast, both of which became unstable and broke alot doring windows 10 upgrade.  Hell watching live you tube stream on my phone is somehting my 930 with windows never did, even netflix can stream to my samsung tv yet my windows mobile 930 never could and still cant.  I miss windows mobile 8.1 and 10 shame microsft couldnt suport it and developers properly.
  • In-line response, proper responsive design apps, landscape everywhere, wallpaper for Start, 4 tile Start, more complex apps, dynamic memory allocation, 15 apps open at any given time, better standards support in Edge, better Settings (lol), Continuum, better core OS apps, hero images in notifications, actionable buttons in notifications, Reachability, HOPEFULLY picture in picture and Night Light, Groove is better than Xbox Music/Zune, proper app scaling instead or fixed resolutions
  • @Cryio I rest my case.  Thx!
  • I think WM10 is great... but that doesn't mean I think it had more features than WP7 or WP8. They have removed a few good things, but overall they have refined the mobile experience. Even if you just look at the Settings area... what a mess that was until WM10! I find WM10 a joy to use on a daily basis, and I can't say I felt the same about previous iterations. That may be unduly unfair to WP8 as I only ever used it on my spare device, while I kept my WP7 device as my daily driver
  • th1 never released on phones..lol it was for pc only.
  • Satya Nadella must be sitting and laughing somewhere.
  • With his iPhone or may be Android......XD
  • Buying Nokia seems to have been a bad move.  Nokia was selling TONS of low end and mid range phones around the world running windows phone.  That was what was keeping windows phone's market share up.  Then Nokia was bought out, phones discontinued, and people who had them didn't have any windows phone options for replacements or upgrades.  Now, MS has stopped making phones altogether, leaving it up to other manufacturers.  So even if you WANT a windows phone, it is very difficult to get one with the features you want.  Look at AT&T for example, it only lists the 640XL.  If you really want a high end windows phone, you have to go buy one from somewhere other than your carrier, and that doesn't help anything.  Microsoft may be leaving the manufacturing to other companies now, but the other companies are not manufacturing the phones, and the carriers then have nothing to offer.  I understand it is all about business decisions, but it seems to me that keeping the Lumia line with a bunch of low and midrange phones for most of the world would have been a good decision.  It would have kept market share at a higher level, and would have kept developers interested in the platform.  Even with UWP now, a lot of developers still don't want to touch the windows platform, and as a software developer I think those guys are idiots.  So anyway, I'm eager to see what direction Microsoft is really going to go with mobile, and I'm holding on to my Lumia 950 for now as it is a phone I really enjoy.    
  • I never understood this either, what did they?? Wasn't the patents which is the only reason i would have purchased.
  • Tons of untaxed money in Europe, MS had to spend it here. When Nutella showed up he made few big acquisitions in Europe with that money to show something in front of board. Biggest acquisition then was Minecraft, Nokia just few moments later.
  • Nokia was going broke.
  • I agree that dumping the low end phone business was a mistake.  MS got where they are by starting at the low end (ie MS Office, Windows desktop), and working up to their server range and the monolith they are today.  Trying to get market share by starting at the top with a premium phone will never give you market share.  
  • Good article. I clearly love my 950 more than Microsoft do. I just hope there is a nice new device available on the platform to upgrade my 950 next year.
  • I agree. I think MS should put a 950/950xl replacement out soon as the 'device' won't be ready for ages. This coupled with the Cerulean, HP('s) and new version of Alcatel Idol 4s should do the trick.
  • There is the HP X3 and Alcatel Idos 4S
  • I don't think the Idol 4s is available for UK. Looks nice but it's not enough of an upgrade on my 950 to tempt me
  • I think the problem is lack of information for the general public. I am sure that MS has a plan, but they are not letting the 'fans' know what that is. There probably are strategic reasons to do so, and the lack of information becomes disheartening. For example, I will use my experiences with cameras. My 1st camera was a Minolta (Maxxum 5000). One of the 1st autofocus SLR's to be produced. Minolta was slow to makes DSLR's and I was tempted to jump ship to Canon or Nikon, but stuck around. They eventually made the 7D but along the way lost many many customers because they were late, and not open about their plans. The 7D was an awsome camera and had some really inovative features like in body image stbilization. Sony bought Minolta, so many of us thought the 'A' mount was saved. But Sony has been just as bad as Minolta in not updating fans. As years have gone by, there has been attrition, any more people ended up in the Canon/Nikon camps. They pump out cameras frequently, make marginial improvememts, make great lenses, have hi end suppost for proffesionals, have great advertisment campaigns etc etc (sounds like Apple and Android, doesn't it?). Well Sony has kept inovating. They make the best sensors in the world, and have continued to introduce new designs (like full frame mirrorless camers). Though they have miniscule market share in the 'A' mount (SLR), they pretty much dominate the mirrorless market. 'A' mount users are frustrated, as all R&D seems to go toward the 'E' mount, and there is continuous attrition (or so it seems). All fans keep posting 'A' mount is dead, jump ship, etc. Well, Sony just released the A99ii. Not only is it another 'A' mount camera, it pretty much trumps anything Nikon or Canon has at the same price point. Though not a proffessional camera, it is comparable to the proffesional offerings of Canon and Nikon. I doubt Sony will gain market share in the A mount. People are too entrenched in Nikon and Canon to ever change. However, Sony is leading innovation, and the future is mirrorless. The A99ii is just a product placement in the overall big picture. MS is in the same boat. Mobile as we currenlty know it will not be the same in a few years. The Surface phone probably will be like the A99ii, better than everything out there, but no body will care. The 'phone' will eventually just be the interface. The real mobile strategy is to have people seemlessly connected with all devices, and the limitation will be bandwidth, and computing power. If they can get full windows 10 on a mobile device (and somehow suppliment processing power with Azure servers), then there will be no need for 'apps'. All they have to do is re-adjust for screen size and device interface (phone, tablet, PC, Xbox, etc).
  • I still love to use WP but I don't care about it anymore. I don't develop for it anymore and my family are all complaining about not having an iPhone or an Android phone. If Microsoft does not release a phone size device that runs full Windows that can also make phone calls, I will have no good reason to hang around anymore. Microsoft is moving on to the cloud and without a serious mobile device to entice future developers, sadly Windows Mobile won't be the last casualty of the new Microsoft.
  • I gave up. I didn't leave Windows Phone, Windows Phone left me. So now I have this S7 thing. I hate it. But it works. And has apps. Meh.
  • so so true, wmost of us didnt leave windows mobile, microsft pushed us out :))  i have a s7 edge, love the phone hate the os, i miss windows 8.1 so much, but like you i need it to work and all the apps here do.
  • Same here. Loved my L930 and WP, but apps basically disappeared. Only apps remained, which, where MS own apps or apps doesn't need any care or because their simplicity. Now I'm on S7 edge as well. HW is great, OS isn't. Especially Outlook integration is a joke. Even in Outlook app.
  • Your articles are very very well written. Lots of emotion and clarity. I enjoy reading all your pieces and look forward to them. As far as msft, I gave up on the phone but will be one of the first in line for the alleged surface device with telephony as the main focus. Cheers. 
  • Thanks so much Marcin!😎
  • Yes.
  • Just pc, laptops, tablets and gaming. Mobile is just dust in the wind.
  • At this moment I think it's safe to say that Microsoft is planning to reboot the mobile OS. It could be the reason why it's retrenching everything from the mobile market.
  • Compare with wp8 or 8.1 more features are available in windows 10.
  • They care enough to use W10M users as test subjects in whatever project they're working on next.  The writing is on the wall, and the ceiling, and the floor, Microsoft is out of the "phone" market.  However, they're not out of the mobile market.  As the article points out, the recent job postings shows that MS is gearing up for another mobile run.  And that mobile device might even have enough features to use as your phone.  Still, it won't be a true competitor to iOS and Android.  IMO, those days are done. 
  • I bought my 950 xl recently because I thought it may be the last one I would be able to get. It would be a shame if I was right, it is so much better than my previous top of the line phone I had on another OS. MS seem to have a track record of developing technology throwing it out in the market struggling cos they don't include the advantages of it, then backing out at tipping point. While someone else picks it up and markets not the technology but how the features are going to change.your life, takes all the innovation credit and steals the market opportunity.
  • I started with a Nokia Lumia 800 and bought some more devices after that. But for mobile my daily driver is now android (Sony Xperia XZ). Got a low budget Lumia 550 as a extra phone that I use sometimes. But the app gap is now to big, and not many interesting high end devices with Windows 10 Mobile is avaible. The HP Elite are to big for my taste to. I am on Windows 10 on desktop PC.s of course, but I doubt I will go back to Windows on mobile full time as before. Maybe if some superinteresting Surface Phone might arrive. But I have not see any signs, leaks or rumours about it lately.
  • Yes, in the sense that you're free testers for a largely ignored SKU. No, they're a business -- and they've moved on.
  • Not since 2014 I'd say.
  • Searching option for settings is more useful than 8.1 s' long list settings. Notification bar is super with detailed information and quick response etc...etc..
  • "After a late reentry into the mobile space with Windows Phone 7 in 2010..."  Microsoft is always accused of late entry to the smartphone and tablet markets, when in fact they led both with the previous iterations of Windows Mobile and the tablets of the early 2000s.  What they didn't do with smartphones was adapt quickly enough.  They missed the move to touch and that was their downfall. The tablets of the early 2000s were just ahead of their times. Microsoft has made a great comeback in the tablet market.  I think they will stick around in the smartphone market, they have to, but may never compete consumer market again. Let's hope I am wrong.
  • Hi toph36 thanks for your contribution, but if you read the excerpt carefully you will see that I use the word "reentry" not "entry." Meaning that I acknowledge thier previous position, but Window Phone 7, was a reentry after Window Mobiles, exit.🙂
  • I read a lot of MSFT does not c​are about the fans, and a lot of reading body language . . . and then the VP does notwan allow any information escapes. From my perspective it seems like nobody really knows anything for sure because MS is mum about everything. From my perspective it is still a lot of speculation about everything because those that know are not saying anything. I am just like the rest of you, I am dedicated to this platform as much as the next fan. The challenge as I see (I am not always the sharpest tool in the shed) it getting MS to say anything about their plans for the smart phone market, and until they are ready to tell us to either pound sand, or we ​ ​
  • You got me there with the "re"... but my commentary still stands, not directed at you. Microsoft was asleep at the wheel, but they did have the wheel! They just didn't deliver what the market (didn't know) they wanted. Microsoft was the market leader in smartphones (OS wise) at one point, albeit a much smaller market at the time.
  • We are at their mercy because they have all of the cards. They know that the dedicated fans will wait for a long time and take almost anything that they want to give us. Most businesses cannot stay in business that way, but MS is the 5,000 lbs gorilla that can do pretty much anything they want because there are very few equal alternatives, at least not w/o significant investment. So we wait I agree that the body language would suggest that we are expendable, I hope that I am wrong. The only way we the fans can make any decision is to convince someone on the inside to give up something about the marketing plan. I hope someone can, because there will be a lot of unhappy fans that may have the resources to dump all MS products and go to Mac. If enough people do that, and make a lot of noise about it, they might get a following that
  • On this latest failure, I don't think Microsoft can use the "late to market" excuse.  Just take a look at the technology that they took the lead with.
    With a device such as the Lumia 920, Microsoft was way ahead of the competition with features like high sensitivity screens, OIS, PureView cameras, Wireless charging and a fresh new design for the OS.  When you consider, that some of these technologies are still missing from Apple's latest offering of the iPhone, there is no excuse for Microsoft. They didn't invest enough or believe enough in their products, so they didn't use them personally or even market them well. 
    Only we as users, saw the potential, but apparently our voices were not loud enough, so they ignored the needs of the users.
  • When apple first came out with the iphone there weren't many apps. You bought it for it being new and exciting. Today, you don't buy something because you see it on tv or has great hardware. You buy it because it has what you need. That means people just won't buy it. It doesn't have what they need. There's no way around this except to fold and be ready for the next technological paradigm.
  • Sold my HP Elite x3 yesterday at a considerable loss and started using my iPhone 6s+ as my daily driver. What does that say about my belief in MS now or for the foreseeable future?
  • See I just dislike the massive bezels on the iphones. They are nice looking phones but the most important feature of any phone is the screen. From a hardware perspective. It's what you look at all day. It should be the most important. And I like where the s8 is going with this as well as iphone 8 may be something I consider.
  • My roommate is currently on his 3rd new iPhone, their durability is severely lacking
  • They had your money, next please!!
  • TL;DR is there anything new(info) in the article? if so, I'll go back and read.
  • I will ask you this way: Does MS care about fans? The answer is NO, MS don't care about fans. Why? COMMUNICATION! When, why, what, how. We deserve that kind of answers. And MS has not give it to us then and now. With W10m in pocket not abandoned yet but many WP fans yes by all means. In SE Europe don't have a chance to get HP or Alcatel, so my L950xl will be my companion in future. Desire still a glow but silence of fear is louder and louder.
  • In Greece (SE Europe), there are stores already offering HP Elite x3 
  • While the article provides a fun analogy it seems to miss the one important and needed takeaway. What does that 401K discussing relationship look like?
  • The only thing I didn't get :P
  • As a fan of the mobile OS, I certainly hope so. I have been with MS since pocket PC, WM5-8.1 and now Windows Phone 10. The last cumulative update was a disaster for many, leading one to believe that Microsoft doesn't have the respect for their fans and users as they should, but I think we are all dreading the day we have to switch to Android or iPhone. I am just so accustomed and comfortable with Windows Phone.
  • This is stupid, having 2 OS ruling the smartphone market is just stupid. Microsoft don't get it, the World is not the USA, just because WP didn't sell good on USA, they had a good market in other places (not today, but in the near past), I'm a die hard fan of W10M, I had many WPhones and I'm not giving up on W10M but I wanna a smartphone not a PC on my pocket, I wanna a consumer high end W10M device not something from the business market like the Elite X3.
  • No Microsoft doesnt care about us. Since becoming an insider I have downloaded 20 or 21 os updates. My phone runs somewhat better than when I bought it but most of those many many updates brought no noticeable improvement. The os still isn't perfect. Not even close. The whole pony show seems designed to frustrate users and drive them away.
  • All windows smart phone users who use the Wndows insider update builds know that Microsoft is working to improve the Windows 10 mobile OS. Microsoft is now hiring 2 new people to do some important work for windows 10 mobile. These actions indicate that Windows 10 mobile is not DEAD. Now as far as Microsoft making a Personal new product line of Windows 10 mobile smart phones is concerned that is a MYSTERY. On Windows weekly a big Microsoft sales VP rep said that Microsoft is trying to make a revolutionary new mobile device but dodged the question wherther it would be a smart phone. Microsoft devices development VP Panos was "Angry" that information was leaked out about the luma 950 and 950 XL when he debuts them at the last "Surface" devices event. Folks MS VP "PANOS" is the CIA NSA guy at Microsoft. He puts the Walls of Silence up about any new device Microsoft has in development SO DONOT EXPECT TO HEAR ANTHING ABOUT -ANY-DEVICES THAT MICROSOFT IS DEVELOPING, TESTING AND WILL SELL SOON come to THE MARKET PLACE. Panos wont let anybody say anything. FOLKS the last thing I read of cocequence was a Chinese group said that a company in their country that made Microsoft devices was making a test run on the manufacturing of the "Surface " smart phone. No further information has come to the th WORLD . FOLKS REMEMBER ! before the "SURFACE STUDIO" came out we saw images of Mcrosoft patents on a all in one PC, THEREFORE SINCE WE HAVE SEEN  2 SETS OF MICROSOFT  PATENTS ON A HAND HELD DUAL SCREEN TABLET I WILL GAMBLE AND SAY IT WILL DEBUT AT THE NEXT "SURFACE" EVENT THIS SPRING. I donot know if this hand held tablet will have a "Windows 10 mobile smart phone" in it but a NEW small Microsoft Tablet is coming soon.  I think we will see a new Surface traditional type laptop debut there too       
  • i used to be on insider but to many desktops and phones had to restored all the time and even though it would be same software same patch with no apps it would have different bugs in different retries.  Never saw this kinda wired install issue still windows 10.  But worst than that microsft keep taking things rebooting or replaceing them with new but leaving out the features we all used.  You might get some of those features back liked linked email, drag and droping photoes or videos, or we might even be able to have a workable edge, but only after 12 months and sometimes longer after origional official launches.  Hell i dont use edge because of 1 thing, i cant  open a new tab to my default home page, thats right microsft has taken that ability away from the user.  Internet explorer still hase it, chrome has it, firefox has it even opera has it but microsft in their incredible lack of wisdom took it away with edge.  Still at least after 2 lears we might get camera and audio settings back in skype but lets hope they dont keep releasing updates that keep breaking my skype, even shared screen doesnt work properly like it used too only 3 months ago, well without shareing any audio that is lol. I remember the day the surface book came out, i thought it was the truning pouint for microsft, they kinda built up over months to it.  they made me feel they learned their lessons and now they were gona be a good company, yet week or 2 later they release a plastice no frils 950 and xl and that was just after telling everyone that their free one drive storage was going.  Even worst, the people to blame were actual subscribers and not free users yet microsft blamed everyone but themselfves.  This is not looking like a consumer friendly company.  Try calling the customer service in the uk, i tell you wehoever i get are imbasiles mostly.  and they dont even have the relative computer experience past basic. im not saying this to be a trol cause i actuall love windows 10 mostly and love the windows mobile too but any other company whoi would do as many mistakes as microsoft has dont and keep doing would not last long in business. Yet they are flourishing... The world is a strange place.
  • Sorry to say, the Microsoft culture now reflects Satya's first memo about corporate goals - create and innovate, let your imagination run wild. This removed all accountability from the development team, and we see a steady stream of releases not ready for prime time. To go along with this, there has been a huge disconnect for any support services. Try calling your local MSFT Store to see if they have an item in stock. It takes 30 minutes being routed through interrogators to finally get the local phone to ring, and maybe they will answer. The original person who answered the phone offsite cannot tell you if the item is in stock at the local store. If a update downloads to your device, and there is a problem, you will find NO documentation by Microsoft, and no answers to your question. I recently posted a question on the proper support site, only to receive a response ( to a lockup problem ) that I should post it in the FEEDBACK space. I did, just like many others who did not receive a response, but that site tells me to get answers I need to post it on the Support page. Yes, I can assure you that execs at MSFT know about this, and have for a long time, but it just gets worse. So, does Microsoft care about and respect all of us who work with their systems day in and day out ? Absolutely not in reality. They only claim to care in their ads. What is the end result ? In my experience, my clients would much rather hold on to older hardware and software that works rather than spend the funds to buy newer equipment with dubious reliability and no support. I've been a developer for 35 years, and exhaust all online ( knowledge base ) resources before even asking a question. In the "old days" it was possible to reach out to tech support and speak with someone who could actually communicate with us, and had the skill to understand the issues, suggesting appropriate solutions. Those days are gone ! The people do work for the company, but to get them, you have to contact the CEO's office, and they start the communication ( hopefully ). Yes ... it is a business ... but alienating clients does not entice them to invest more resources on your products. Ultimately it's a formula for harming a business, and perhaps all the cost cutting at MSFT indicates they are reaping what they have sown.
  • Question tho what sort of deal did microsoft give the new yourk police and german police to get them to use wp....last remaining stock of phones for free?. Thats the only albatros in the room.
  • Gotta hand it to Jason... no matter what happens to the ship, he's decided he's going down with it. I do think he's kind of playing himself at this point, but I seriously admire his loyalty. I guess by now he's been so committed to this retrenching narrative that he's kind of stuck. I personally felt abandoned by Microsoft - and more so by Windows Phone developers - after beeing a diehard since the Lumia 800 days. Windows Phone essentially died with the Lumia rebranding for me. The uninspired hardware of the Lumia 950/950XL was the nail in the coffin. I've owned beautiful offerings from Sony and Samsung since (I could never relegate myself to Apple's generic offering) and I very much look forward to whatever Android flagship Nokia has in store.  
  • Based on all the above posts; I too am of the mindset that this L950 will be used until it is dead 3 yrs from now. I hope not, but this pessimism is warranted.
  • Great, Jason!
  • I have pushed Windows Phone upon friends in the past and convinced 10-15 to switch. The current state of affairs has me more upset with looking like an idiot while friends can't do in some cases basic things that other smartphones can, all because I rooted so hard for it. Worse yet, it's things and apps that used to work, but no longer do due to apps being pulled, features yanked, etc. It's one thing if one could go, "yeah, but why'd they switch if it didn't do <blah>." But when it did, and now that is gone, there is really no defense. I'll live with the smartphone situation, a 950 XL, that I've personally dug myself into. That's on me. But it bothers me that after championing the platform, now I look like a dingdong for it.
  • yeh a familiar tail, sounds like me too.  Shame cause  back when i owned a lumia 930 it felt like  microsft was finally there.  What a masive turnaround for the worst.
  • That's just it. I remember when the "app gap" was about the only issue to be concerned about, and slowly, that was getting better. It was easy to see how it might take years, but with enough effort, it could become a strong alternative to other platforms. Now, even if they turned the ship around completely, many Windows fans have been burned and those who aren't, aren't about to become ones if they haven't back in the Windows Phone 7/8 days. They've done a good job of alienating the group of users that were supporting them. If the numbers were bigger, they'd think twice about such a thing. But with numbers already so low, we could just disappear and it would be a footnote in their budget.
  • It wasn't getting better. The stats were boosted up by cheap phones taking in shares. Developers who took chances got nothing out of it because cheap phones produce no ecosystem engagement. This is also why Google Pixel phones are insanely priced. You need the premium users to boost your ecosystem. Google needs a backup for if Samsung decides to leave. Apple figured it out ages ago and continues to reep the benefits of keeping cheap people out.
  • I disagree. Android phones were the poor man's iPhone in the beginning.
    Today, mid range android phones will do pretty much anything most users want at a fraction of the price of a Galaxy phone.
  • Android were cheaper than iphone sure but they were their only competitor and as such grew into the alternative. Windows phones were the first to come out with non-flip phone smartphone class phones that were dirt cheap. The entire share as has always been shown was lumia 520 followed by 640. It wasn't till the chinese manufacturers stepped in that Android started selling much cheaper phones that could even compete with the windows phone prices. No one wanted to pony up big money for better windows phones because they knew that for the same money they could get an OS that had apps and everything needed. The only reason they sold was the price. The more expensive units were purchased by the hardcore fans. Most of these same fans remain loyal today while the others either continue using their phones cheaply or have moved over to a cheap android alternative.
  • Good point.
    The 640 was the bomb.
    Also, anything less than an android flagship was a dog of a phone.
    Android definitely rode the iPhone's coattails to success. Too bad Windows phone wasn't in a position to take advantage.
  • Ditto. The interesting thing is that I still love my 950XL and feel no shortcomings. I use almost no apps though. I struggled with Android (on a premium device) for 2 months while my 950XL was being RMA'd by BHPhoto. Lord help us when Windows Phone dies. Android is garbage and iPhone is far behind in simple tech (wireless charging, OLED, etc) 
  • Microsoft don't give a **** for customers, fist Windows Phone 7 left in the limbo, later 8, soon will be the 10.I use Windows Phone since 7.0, I come from HTC HD7, HTC Ultimate, Lumia 920 and Lumia 1520. The 1520 is my last Windows smartphone, because I am tired of the company. We can't trust Microsoft promisses. I converted around 25 people to Windows Phone and I feel ashamed by this.
  • You can place some of this blame on Google too... They bought a lot of popular apps and then pulled them or killed development on Windows Phone. Petty crybabies. It's a shame that Microsoft can't (or didn't even try to) convince developers to develop for Windows Phone. I don't know a single person that doesn't prefer the Windows Mobile UI to all the others.   
  • I agree, the UI on WP10 is really good but Launcher 10, an android app is a very very good attempt at replicating the WP10 UI and frankly I am so sick of being burned by MS that I decided to jump ship before the water reached my nose and got a very nice Samsung Edge 6, put launcher 10 on it and don't miss the 950 one bit.  Its just so nice not finding that an app I want isn't available or is being dropped, not having to reboot the phone every few days because the phone history fails to update, not having to keep switching Bluetooth back on because it switches off all by itself. Not having a poxy USBC socket on it that sucks so badly the stupid plug barely makes contact properly and wont connect to my PC reliably like my Samsung does. I could go on............  MS don't give a damn about the fans in my opinion. They have strung us along telling us what we want to hear. Some fans with their heads in the sand, ostrich like, will no doubt mark down my post but really wake up folks! WP is over and people can either sink with the ship and drown or move on. Android with launcher 10 on it is better that an all but dead OS and no support not even from MS's own studios.  
  • Youch. Are you on the Windows Insider program? I have the Lumia 950XL and have none of these problems you mention. I supposed I'd have the apps issue if I cared about apps but I don't so i don't really know what I'm missing. Do have frequent freezing and bogging down issues with the Android devices I have used (and do use occasionally)
  • No I was always on the release version, not the insider program. The whole app thing was just the icing really. If the USB socket was reliable and the OS was stable I, as a mostly enterprise user, would have stuck with it. But really, not being able to see an up to date call history from customers! Having to email images of products to my own PC because the USBC socket was useless! Having to switch the phone to standby then back on again because the answer slider didn't work every time! This is inexcusable for a phone I was using in a professional capacity.  
  • You really should have RMA'd it. That is not normal. I've never had any of those issues with any of my Lumias. The USB-C on the 950XL is an awesome (and welcome) update to Micro-USC, though I must admit to charge I use the built in wireless charging, unless I'm traveling.
  • I am commenting not so much to the content of this essay, but the essay by Jason itself. Well written. Thanks, 
  • Yes, very true. Sad that many people don't see Google for what it is. I try to stay as far away from them as I can. Microsoft I think is trying to free us from Google's push for a dictatorship.
  • You cant have a future when you have no present foundation to build on, and again the premise that people actually want Windows on their mobile device is nothing more than an assumption. They will have to break the rules of space and time to get any interest in their supposed "surface phone".
  • and not to mention, overcome their history of not being able to produce bug free prodcution release versions, I'm sure first gen surface phone will be buggy as hell just as 950s and then WSheep will come up with excuses such as wait for 3rd gen.
  • For Nadella Microsoft is just work. When Xbox 1 had the first problems, Steve believed in it and invested billions of dollars. If Steve would have been like Nadella, Steve would have said "Gaming first" and published "Age of Empires" for Playstation. He should have stay for cloud services.
  • It depends upon whom within MS you ask, but unfortunately the shareholders don't give a rip and therefore the answer is No.
  • Shareholders are, totally, amoral.  They only care if the company makes money and not how they make it.
  • Come on. Does any company really care about? Or do they care about themselves?
  • Of course MS does not care. Management is only interested in what gives them status, appreciation and money. Windows phone does not give them any of that. Now they desperately are trying to get the MS sw on the apple devices they use., so they can at least defend why they prefer an iPhone and imac over MS its own products. I would sack the lot for not using MS products.
  • I believe that part of the problem is that even Microsoft is not certain where they want to go with Windows 10 Mobile. I will snap if I hear "retrenching" one more time. I think that even inside Microsoft, the word is like a fart in a mitten. It keeps bouncing around and no-one really knows what it means, even internally.
  • For all the Windows Phone fans it must be clear. Microsoft abandoned you. That MS now wants to re-enter the market with a new class of device furthers my case. Your promised ever upgrading of the phone will be broken, again!
    Will MS try to enter the market again? Sure. But to even compare the new class of device with a phone, is pure ignorance. Sorry!
  • i dont think microsft even care about windows app users.  you cant get groove to read a sd card on a s7 edge a very popular phone and series, the ipad air doesnt even have a groove app, so if your using and likeing groove on windows 10 desktop your screwed.  Im now forced to use play and it is not fun.  Also gestures beta was released in 2015 and then sortly later disapeared from being usable in windows 10.  Even now the touch menu sits all alone with the solitude mute function.  What about the very usefull speakerphone option?, then thers the second reboot of skype thats finally goten some of the settings and features we have been used to but strangley shared screen no longer shares audio if your for example watching a you tube vid with a friend.  Still outlook has got linked inboxes even if it came 12 months after its launch, drag and drop photos to skype now work, god knows how long that was, wasnt drag and drop something even windows 95 had?  hum see where im going with this microsft(nope they dont).  I dont think microsft care about windows mobile users cause their letting developers leave like paypal, they get rid of here maps which was a phone seller to me, and in 2015 when they could have lead in wireless mobile paying they instead dont exist in my shops here in the uk, but my android works nearly everywhere.  Still they have onedrive and if the article i read the other day is correct then microsft is the only cloud service that can index and share your personal cloud info if asked for it.  At least we still have some free storage even if microsft tried to get rid of it, supose if they did we could just pay double for onedrive storeage while apple double users capacity for free.  im wondering if microsft has any life left in it at this time cause the trust seems to keep being ringed out of users, still why not force me to update to windows 10 or buy a kabylake processor and make sure i upgrade. Im not sure it its they dont care or simply they dont know how to creat good software with the features we all use and love in  timely manner, maybe thwey simply dont have the staff.  Not being able to adjust camera settings or audio settings in both built in skype and the now preview skype is nothing short of a big joke.  Tell me am i wrong in thinking this way?  And i love windows 10 desktop and modile mostly.
  • After abandoning my L900 on WP7.8, and abandoning my L1020 on 8.1, and abandoning my Band 1, I have not had any question for some time that MS has zero interest in its customer base. They have used their loyal fans as Guinea pigs for a long time, then dropped them when things warranted. But they are a corporation, not a girlfriend, so it isn't unexpected...just disappointing. They just shouldn't expect any more money from me any time soon. Which, again, doesn't matter, because they've already gotten more out of me than most people...sigh
  • Nadella was such a disaster for windows phone, killed off all of the exciting things that were up and comming.  He basically changed this website from WPcentral to windowscentral.  Balmer had faith and vision, including surface...Nadella gets all kinds of love by non WP fans as the guy who "Saved microsoft" and that Balmer was a nutjob.  The last thing I want is a PC in my phone, windows phone was nothing of the sort.  Still have my L1520, i didnt like the 950 line, you could just sense things going downhill with their cheap look and w10 so raw at the time.  I miss 8.1 actually, but going with the flow for now.  
  • How long before this website becomes "Microsoft Cloud Services Central"?
  • About the time you leave here. :-)
  • Microsoft doesn't care enough to make major improvements to the software and we all know what happened to the hardware. I was patient for years, giving them chance after chance to at least communicate a vision for the platform. When there was only silence and the updates made the devices worst, I knew it was time to move on. Right now, my Lumia 950 is used as a standalone camera, but I have moved on to OnePlus 2 and thinking about upgrading to 3T this year. If they don't believe in their products, why should we?!
  • Maybe we should create a thunderclap https://www.thunderclap.it/howitworks for Windows Mobile
  • Why would you sell your HP? Just for a few apps? The HP is awesome.
  • Did they ever care? The only reason people use android is because of all the apps they have. By all accounts it is a garbage OS with a garbage UI. People settle for Adroid because of the number of apps (and frequency of which they are updated), and because (like Windows Phone) you can have a bargain basement Android device, or an expensive flagship. Microsoft should have never given Android the office suite, our keyboard, or Cortana. Why on earth would they think that giving up all the most desired exclusives would be a sound strategy? Clearly they never cared about Windows Phone.
  • People bought Android before it had apps. You think Android had apps in 2010? They were sitting on the shelf next to WP7 devices and people overwhelmingly chose the "garbage UI" while neither one had apps. That is why Android has apps today. Unlike Windows phones, people liked and bought Android devices and continued to buy them.
  • lol. Nice try buddy.  Android devices got their start because they were offered at every price point originally. Knock-off chinese devices abound. By the way, since you have no memory. Android came out before Windows Phone. I had an Android device when it came out. I loved all the apps, it was a buggy crappy OS but I had nothing better with which to compare it. Android came out TWO YEARS before Windows Phone. TWO F*CKING YEARS. And you have the gall to say that it sat side-by-side with Windows phone? I have news for you, people don't tend to switch Operating Systems. Most people who bought androids went from a dumb-phone straight to android. It's all they've ever known. This is the problem with Microsoft coming late to the party (really taking an extended absence after Windows Mobile 6.5) people had already bought their new devices and like I said, most people don't switch unless they had a reason to. Android is a garbage OS that is a total resource hog, very buggy, and poorly designed.
  • It was side by side on the shelf with Windows Phone in late 2010. The market certainly hadn't been decided yet, but you are right, Android was off to a strong start. Google really brought what the market was looking for. Microsoft had a chance though, especially since Android's performance was very rough compared to WP7 and that is an understatement. Microsoft just didn't bring what the market needed. A locked down platform was a tough sell to manufacturers who saw Android's openness as a great benefit. They could differentiate their devices with a wider range of hardware, custom features and their own UI. As such, they pushed their Android offerings harder. Samsung couldn't have made the GS2 running Windows. Android gave them the power to make that device and it blew up. Windows Phone had a chance, but Microsoft just didn't get it right. Instead of fixing their deficiencies, they updated the kernel like that was the issue with WP7. WP8 shared the same fate. Their only chance now is opening up Windows Mobile so manufacturers would be more compelled to give it a chance. Create the composable shell on Windows Mobile so that the OEM can create the UI while mobile and it turns into W10 when docked. No reason they couldn't do that. Otherwise, they will be solely responsible for the creation, marketing and sales of Windows phones. Manufacturers are not going to take on that burden for a locked down platform they have no control over and only benefits Microsoft.
  • I have used lumina 720 and lumina 930. Recently I switched to HTC 10, and I did not think I would like Android as I do now. The OS is very smooth and stable. You haven't used a decent Android phone recently otherwise you wouldn't call the OS buggy.
  • 1. Windows mobile was there before any mobile OS... 2 beauty is a VERY subjective thing visiting over wc forums would open your hating heart on how many win guys find android after moving... 3 today android is even beautiful than iOS let alone windows are the direction many websites are taking? Well that's android effect. 4 android did not have apps as well as windows but why the hell it's 8x% of the world market share todAy? Don't say Chinese knock off there weren't no Chinese knock off until android 3 originally we had Samsung HTC lg etc but not these Chinese brands we see these days.. Huawei and brothers were niche Samsung just lost the leader in the Chinese market share I think 2 years ago and what does that tell you? Bottom line TILES ARE UGLY WINDOWS PHONE IS UGLY BIG FONTS BLACKNESS EVERYWHERE etc these are things that killed it apps is just an excuse
  • You don't need to look at tiles if you don't want to. Just use the transparency slider at 100%. Try that on Android. It seems like Windows 10 Mobile has to many options and people are too lazy to figure out all W10M can do.
  • I think, giving up on Windows Mobile would also giving up on Windows 10 desktop app store. My apps are mostly bought on Mobile even I have the matching desktop app. There is no need for a desktop app, you must download in a store, when you have no advantages. And having no store would actually mean having no "free" Windows 10 at the end.
  • Ugh, whenever I get emotionally involved with a product, it dumps me. This doesn't bode well for Windows Phone/s. I still like Microsoft and their products. My Nokia 1020 still works fine and seems to be in it for the long haul. It's just that, as a consumer, I have been ready for the latest greatest Win Phone for years now. My release date Surface RT still works and is still supported. Too slow for many functions. My Surface Pro 3 is the best PC decision I've ever made. It does everything except high end games. My Xbox Live and Xbox One experiences are so good I'm getting a Scorpio. If MS had a matching TV, I'd get that too.
  • I am praying that my 950 XL does not die before Microsoft unveils whatever it's latest plan is. It's entirely possible that being more business-focused, it's going to be too far from consumer-grade to be desirable, much like a Blackberry user pushing their device as a daily driver. Can you do it? Sure. Should you? Probably not. (And this is coming from someone who loves Blackberry. I sure know how to pick 'em!) But I'd at least like to see what their next phase looks like because if my phone died right now, I'd be hard pressed to run out and buy another Windows 10 Mobile device. After switching completely from the Apple ecosystem to the Microsoft ecosystem, doing the yearly upgrade cycle because it was (at the time) exciting, now I just feel as **** on by Microsoft as I did by Apple. But at least Apple did what I needed it to do.
  • I dont care if they care about "fans" - probably not. My question is, do they care about Windows in the mobile space? Do they still want to compete there, or have they given up and ceded that market to iOS and Android?
  • They are given up and they are focusing in SaaS. Look at MS apps in android and apple OS. Much more powerful.
  • I switchup btween my green Lumia 1520 and my Hp Elite X3 iPhone 7 plus and nexus 6p so im good i wont give up on w10 mobile ill keep it going until Ms stop making the software then ill just keep em long live windows mobile.
  • Well.... I made up my mind that I wouldn't get another windows phone after MS refused updating my Lumia 720 with win 10..... But my decision didn't last long... I ended up getting the Lumia 950. Despite all the great things this phone do and my friends think they are awesome, something still hurts me when I can't get the apps I need. When all the great apps were coming during the Nokia days and the windows phone market share was on the rise, MS made a big mistake by not updating the older phones with win 10 and not making new Lumias.
  • Microsoft already caused alot of damage. You have no idea how hard is it to hold on to a platform that you dearly love and hoping one day things will get better and they will invade the smartphone world and apps will come flowing into the windows store. 
    ​But, uf Microsoft is going to go ahead and "redefine the future" with their new "ultraphone", here is whats gonna happen to the windows phone fan base. theyll be split into two. Half of us will ride the wave and buy their new products and the other half (me included) will pass on it. Unless I see the that that new device have actually caused a paradigm shift and that people (outside the fan base) started buying the device and apps started flowing into the store (Snapchat is at the top of the list). Unless all of this happens Ill throw away my lumia 920 and lumia 950 XL (wont even sell them because ill be too embarrassed) and be like the rest of these robots out there holding iphones and androids
  • Apps. When it comes to Microsoft's app store, it's eco system and platform apps are the focal point more than anything. It's the thing that everyone keeps coming back to with regards to the Windows Phone platform. ​Its true too, we don't get the same level of apps in the Microsoft app ecosystem. Short of paying and begging those companies to support a platform that has <5% user population, with the subset of those probably making up less then 0.5% of their (the app developers) entire userbase across all platforms, there isn't much Microsoft can do to fix it lack of 'theres and app for that'.
    ​And to be fair, it's a big ask for any developer to support a Windows Phone OS that's depreciated. I see Microsoft being one step a head. It's probably why we're seeing such a hard push from them with the adoption of Windows 10 on the PC.
    When they've got a large enough user base with Windows 10, on the PC, it'll rival Android and iOS's user base. While this doesn't immediately seem to satisify the requirements for a mobile handset, when the handset is running Windows 10 as well, be that a full ARM based, x86 or even Windows 10 Mobile OS, the applications should be able to run as a universal app. This will be when Microsoft is able to leverage the Windows 10 userbase as a whole, pushing UWP apps across the entire Microsoft ecosystem. ​From there, they can step forward and say to developers, Windows 10 isn't a small platform, we have X amount of users that span the Windows 10, PC, mobile, xbox etc platforms and you can access them all by developing a UWP app. From that point on, it won't matter if the developers take issue with Windows mobile only having a couple of handsets, or or less then 1% mobile userbase, but they'll gain the majority share from the desktop users as a end result. This is key. Microsoft can then say to the likes of Nintendo who haven't yet bought Mario Bros runner to Windows mobile, or tablets. You can target 1 UWP app, and push it to all our platforms. Windows 10 on the PC, Windows 10 on the mobile, Windows 10 on the Xbox, you can even push it to holens for mixed reality headsets... and we'll give you an Xbox arcade tag.
      When the platform becomes less about the fundamental hardware that it's running on, and more about the platform itself you access, you're just left looking at the amount of users you're able to target. The PC platform makes that extreamly easy for Microsoft to get a huge amount of users onboard, and the end game is to give developers access to those users via UWP apps. ​It may take Microsoft a little longer, but they're on track and developers won't be able to ignore it for much longer. Once that happens we'll see a paradigm shift in the way hardware venders perceive the platform, and that intern will give end users access to mobile devices.
  • Geez, we don't even get the same apps from Microsoft!!  They are far more likely to release new stuff for the other platforms... No wonder people are going away!
  • Microsoft employees make fun of me that I'm still using WP where none of them (who I work with) use MS phone! I dont think MS cares about us. For me, time to change
  • That says it all!
  • I think Nutella never really used a Windows Phone. He only knows it has some live tiles.
  • I think they recognise that the platform is dead from a consumer perspective and their upkeep efforts are solely for the limited business market. I've been using WP exclusively for the last 6 years or so and now I'm preparing to jump ship to Android. I'd like to stay with WP, but the app situation worsens daily and I can't justify spending more money on a ecosystem that Microsoft has failed to sustain. I'll stick with Microsoft services, just on a more viable mobile platform. I plan to reevaluate things once the Surface phone is out, as I assume there will be a full court press from Microsoft behind that platform when it is launched. Until then, I'm bailing out.
  • I've lost faith in Windows Phone which is sad because it's a wonderful OS.  When I can afford to, I'll move to either iOS or Android, neither or which are nice as the Live Tile interface on Windows Phone.  In regards to Surface Phone, if it happens, it will be very expensive!  One thing I liked a lot about Windows Phone was the cheaper models that placed a powerful smart phone in the hands of folks who coldn't afford an iPhone (like me!).  A Surface Phone won't have cheaper models.  It will be very expensive and with the Windows Phone market decaying, it will be a big undertaking on Microsoft's part to put out a Surface Phone in the hope of it being a success.
  • I would hope they still care about Windows Phone fans, but this procject has like remain behind or something like... WP isn't also entirely gone, it still lives, but certainly, many users, maybe even all, want to see updates and upgrades, more customizable and adaptability OS , what are currently offering rivals like iOS and Android more. But still, regardless in which condition WP currently is, I still like it, it seems for me very handy, easy to use, runs great even on low-end devices and somehow very different from main rivals, in a good way, course.
  • No.
  • No, they don't. Corporations don't care about consumers unless they impact in some way their revenue. Period. The fact that Microsoft KILLED Windows Phone/phone/mobile (call it whatever you want) and put it on life-support should already make stubborn Windows Phone fans happy as they can continue to use their dead OS. Meanwhile Microsoft moved on and because they don't want to continue to play by the smartphone market rules (they played and lost) they killed their OS. Don't expect investment in it. And don't expect unicorn phones like the "Surface Phone". Windows on phones was an investment that failed. Several times now. Microsoft is fortunately not run by an idiot anymore. Both Nadella and Gates realised that WP was dead and they won't allow the company to continue to lose money with it unnecessarily. The OEMs putting out Windows Phones are either using spares (TCL) or trying to get a bail-out from Microsoft, like Nokia did, when their phone hardware fails because it uses a dead OS that no one, not even enterprise wants (HP). Fortunately Windows Phone misery is about to be shot dead. The leaving of Facebook will push the remaining WP users out of the corpse and into living OSs and Microsoft can finally put it all behind them.
    Sure some stubborn people (mainly on this site) will cling to WP. And they're absolutely free to do it. Some people are still using BB10 and other deas OSs. Meanwhile the rest of us moved on and are now enjoying Microsoft's services on other mobile platforms. Oh and by the way: "Many of our members (I was one before becoming a writer here) became part of this community because of Windows phones." It would be cool to have numbers about this. I've been here since Nokia released the L800. I stayed because the site wisely dropped the "Phone" part and now offers info on Windows and Xbox. But I NEVER came because of Windows Phone. I came because that was the OS on Nokia phones. And I bet like me, many others.
  • DJCBS, Your right about the part that the OS came on nokia phones. i had symbian on my 2nd nokia phone, then switched to win 7 on my third nokia and loved the OS ever since. To be fair though My wifes Alcatel Idol 4s with Win 10 mobile is amazing and on par or better than my 950XL except for the camera and no wirless charging.
  • NO, MS don't care.  And the vision is just day dream, why would other user switch to PC on phone?  1. x86 don't matter to most, ios/andriold user have apps for everything.  2. camera, W10m don't have repectable camera after 950s.  Do you know what people use to take pic now?  phone, not p/s or dslr.  3. eco system, does w10m even have selfie stick app?  car play?  EV app(Tesla, Volt or whatever)?  If they care, they did offer rebate for 800/900 user back in the day.
  • Windows 10 mobile its great OS. Beter then android, like system, not app. Glance, tap to wake, tap to lock, live titles, best camera app, black or light UI. love windows. Very sad for us, ms anymore dosent car for phone market.
  • Doesn't matter either way. This clown of a CEO doesnt figure something out with the Mobile market and this company will be in a slow downward spiral for a painful while.
  • Right now? I don't care. Microsoft's unending silence is irritating. When the competition stays quiet, like Apple and all the Android OEMs, it doesn't matter because those hardware releases are predictable and consistent. On the MS side, It's all over the place and unreliable, so you never know if it makes more sense to jump elsewhere or wait for the next attempt. I want a new phone soon, and MS has said nothing. I don't want to buy something else on Android, then have a new device follow on W10-insert-phone-OS-moniker. I also don't want to sit on this half-baked 950 in perpetual hope (a.k.a. perpetual disappointment in MS). The other options also don't have a site like this. Yes, iMore and Android Central exist. What I mean is this site really feeds the lack of faith and constant uncertainty. Telling folks Spring 2017 would save mobile and bring a Surface Phone, then coming with "2018, actually," really adds to the frustration. The newly mentioned delays on SB2 and SP5 add to that, because even the "flagship" of the MS hardware endeavor now seems to have uncertainty that makes all the lesser stuff feel that much less reliable.
  • If Microsoft actually cared, or knew how to show users they care, they would make sure that either they or a third party would keep making phones for users.  You use a relationship analogy so let me stick with that.  If you don't let the other party know you are interested or care or communcate properly, what usually happens?  They move on to someone else.  Microsoft loses because they let their partner stray somewhere else.  We fans have been loyal partners and they are opening the door for us to move on with Apple or Google.  That's not how you develop and strengthen a relationship.  The least they could have done, and could still do quickly, is give us a modifired 950 and 950XL with newer/faster specs with the newest Win10 build.  Otherwise, some of us are still using old phones and having to replace them via Amazon or something while waiting...or the majority are becoming loyal to other suitors.  Microsoft has something really great on their hands and as usual has no idea how to market it.  The Zune was the superior product and they squandered their opportunity by not marketing properly.  I'm hanging on by a thread because I don't see another suitable suitor.  But Microsoft better move fast or I'm moving on, too, and like most people, not interested in coming back to the ex.
  • I actually think that there are people at Microsoft who care about us, just NOT Nadella.  I have had several devices that due to MS decisions turned into unsupported, obsolete devices.  From what I hear from Microsoft, the phone will go the way of the original tablet PC (remember those), Pocket PC, SPOT watch, Surface RT, Band, etc....  You may say that it was all market driven, but I don't think the MS did anything to really push the issue.  I saw virtually no push back on the devices that died -- and I see the same thing with Windows mobile. That said, I hate the alternatives so much that I will hold onto mine (I now have the 950) until the bitter end.  :(  
  • I too hate the alternatives. It would really suck to have only two choices. (I don't know where BB stands)...
  • I too hate the alternatives. It would really suck to have only two choices. (I don't know where BB stands)...
  • Well I do think they care, but I'm with you on the 950, ill even look to buy a hp elite x3 before I give in.
  • Me too richard. Hope my new 950XL lasts til the surface phone arrives. :-)
  • My children have iPhones and do no more on those than I do on my Lumia 640. Status is everything. Microsoft has none. There is no point releasing an MS phone to compete with the big guns. The market is bloated to obesity with phones. They'd need the equivalent of an atomic phone recharging with photo cell technology to even stand a chance. MS are still designing and sending updates to mobile...what's the problem? So what if the their mobile collapses? It's not like its a screaming success. Maybe it has to die to be reborn in another form?
  • I don't think Windows knows which way they are heading, and thus they don't really "care about Windows phone loyalists".   I'm sure Microsoft is happy they have a core group of loyalists, but like so much, I don't think Microsoft really knows what to do with them. Seriously I see computing, getting smaller and smaller.  Many people I know never or only as a small percentage of their time, get on a Laptop or a desk-top PC.  Their computing experience is through a phone or a tablet.  And Microsoft has no idea how to handle this change in the world.  They half-assed tried a phone, and failed.  But they haven't called it quits officially because they know that mobility is the future, not the desk-top.  So Microsoft says it's a "software company" and pushes software to the phones.  Or MS says they are "Enterprise" company.  I have no idea what that even means.  Most people I know in businss and the work enironment have iphones and Androids.......like the rest of the world.  They use their phones like everyone else, with maybe a need for a specific app or two, which is on those platforms...because that's where the people are.  Does Microsoft expect people to carry two phones one for work and one for personal use?  That's not going to happen.  Do they think business will make their employees use a Windows phone for ONE specific purpose that only the Windows phone can do?  Heck no..."make me an app" is what the CEO will say. Microsoft is clueless on how to move from the desk to your pocket. And their half-hearted and then discarded attempts show this. The WM loyalists, are just part of the discarded assets.
  • I love Windows Phone, but in the end... its just a phone. I use my 830 to make phone calls, listen to music, send text messages, etc. I've used WP because I like the interface over the "rows of icons" of Android or iOS. My 830 still works and I'm not in any rush to change it. In a couple of years if my 830 isn't cutting it... I'll do what I'd do when replacing my microwave, toaster, or headphones... I'll look around, see what is out there, look at the features, and decide then. If Microsoft has a never WP10 release and new devices... sure I'll look. If it has a Windows on ARM Surface-like device... I'll look at that. If not... I'll look at Android or iOS. Should Microsoft care about me... no. They've already given me good WP products for the past seven years. They've made them, I've bought them. Done. If they can make a better mousetrap... I'll move. If not, I'll move elsewhere. I hope they don't think I'm going to stick with WP just because of nostalgia or brand loyalty. Likewise, I don't expect them to stick with WP if they have something "better".
  • I totally understand Ms stance on the windows Mobil and can't wait for it to come to full fruition, the 950 gives a nice view of what could be, but I think it was wrong to abandon the smartphone market especially outside the us, it would have given a solid user base to build on.
  • As a developer, I can see the API of Windows platform is very very limited compared to Android and iOS. Sure there are some security issues while exposing the system settings. But still, that's not enough for convincing the developers at this stage.
  • Very very limited? What features are you missing? I think the API is pretty good now. Sure, parts are missing, but most important stuff can be achieved. I think it is worse that you have like 4 different APIs (7.x and 8.0 for silverlight, 8.1 and 10) where they changed stuff. And here you have choice of either reach all users or going up to date with W10. Since there are too many changes it's not really fun supporting both. That's one reason I did not a lot of development the last 3 years. Because I never knew if I should support WP8 or W8.1/10.
  • Is sad for me as a developer to rewrite the windows phone applications of my company for Android now. I already threw the towel a few months ago. I enjoyed making that applications for windows phone, but something have to be done when your favorite plattform is abandoned. 
  • NO they dont, they dont give a **** about phones anymore, and the apps is more to Android more and more
  • How many ways are you going to try and slice the same story?  I feel stupid for reading these editorials (or "Certified Warditorials") hoping that there might be at least one small nugget of actual information...only to be disappointed each and every time.  Does Windows Phone Have A Future?  Is Windows Phone Dead? Microsoft's Long Game!  Does Microsoft Care About Windows Phone Fans?  Seriously...these articles can all just copy and paste between them.  You're covering Microsoft so closely that you're starting to act/write like them too.  Lots of copy, not a lot of substance. Fact of the matter is nothing has changed and it seems like the average joe has about as much an inkling of what is going on in Redmond as you guys do.  I wish it was more Energize and Revolutionize....but for the past nearly two years it has been Eulogize and Euthanize. Just the .02 of a cranky Windows fan.
  • Guys, I have say it before and will say it again. I work in the app development business and I see no progress on both devs and designer willing to work on apps for Windows 10 and mobile. The UI design for windows is like second class for designers, they call it just awful. Just try to remember how many well designed apps are currently available for Windows? I can think Poki and Groove Music. Now with devs, they say they like Apple and Google development platforms instead even with Visual Studio and C# making a lot of efforts to improve. People just don't like Windows, no matter if it  is devs, designers and consumers. Most of you and me, like it but we are such a small number that is no profitable. I can't remember how many times people ask me why I use a WP device with that ugly interface. All black background and huge letters (Segoe is a terrible font for a user interface btw). And looking back even If i like it, just when Zune HD was a thing, they are right. Windows interface is ugly for most of the people. They like Apple/Android approach for good.  So Windows Phone/Mobile will never be #1 OS for phones, if they can't even make a interface that people like. Devs and designers don't want to make ugly apps for Windows. You can tell how much love both put in their apps for Mac and iPhone, why? because they are gonna use them. Design for a platform you don't wanna use and even hate is terrible. Look at the apps from MS Garage.  So, again, if I could become MS CEO, I will keep what Natya is doing with enterprise, but make something like what Xiaomi did with Yi, Mija and Amazfit. Create sub companies with freedom to develop amazing products conected with MS ecosystem. Why? Microsoft and Windows still are brands that are equal to work. That's boring. People hate that. Just like Xbox was popular, because people didn't feel that it was a MS product. They should stop putting Windows or MS on everything they do for consumer market, is bad, killing the products when they even aren't in the market yet. Independence and innovation with sub companies and startups is my bet.
  • Hope the project neon changes the designers' mind! And wish the team behind it makes a great work. I'm a designer too and I get what you're talking about. Thumbs up!
  • Me too! Looking forward to see what MS can show about UI with Project Neon. I even want to know what interface will be used on Project Scorpio as several rumors point out. Cheers fellow designer!
  • Yeah, Project Scorpio, too! Cheers mate!
  • Whatever these other platform doing is working great, because they know if Windows 10 mobile get full support from developers they are out of business...
  • Great article. This, among many articles I've read about the Death of Windows Mobile, should bring some perspective to those that have not understood that MS is a business first company. Microsoft's Board will not focus on fans, if it means continuing bleeding money out, with no REAL return on their efforts. Nedella understands this and does what is necessary to move the company in the right direction. Focusing on an already established market (enterprise) is, from a business perspective, the right move. I'm a fan of the current Windows 10 Mobile, but I understand it is about business. This wasn't always the case, because I was one of those unrealistic fans in the early days of Windows Phone 7. All I cared about was having a great phone and wanted MS to produce. In all fairness, I believe Ballmer helped motivate this mindset among the faithful fans. It was a great mindset, it just didn't fit into the growth pattern MS was looking for. MS, in my opinion, did not think long term, when it came to Windows Phone 7, 7.5, 8 and 8.1. With constant reboots of the OS that did not carry over to MS's long-term strategy that appeared to be lacking, assuming there was one, at that time. I honestly think the frequent reboots indicated a lack of one. I enjoy Windows 10 Mobile and I enjoy being an Insider. However, I, and I believe many others, understand that MS is a business. Despite my investment into the OS, I do not feel like I have been abandoned, because I can still access purchased movie content, music, Office apps, and some games on other devices. If MS had not made this content available on other devices and restricted to mobile phones, I would feel some kind of way about that. If I decided that I want to switch to Android or iOS, I can still access this content and that keeps me from feeling like I've been abandoned...completely. I will stay on Microsoft's Mobile strategy until it no longer makes sense to do so, for me. Being a fan, I'm hoping for that ultra-mobile device that will redefine the mobile space. I want it to be everything I and many fans hope it will be. If things do not happen that way, as much as I will not like it, I will have to decide which of the big two I will have to choose.
  • >Does Microsoft still care about Windows phone loyalists? ROTFLMAO. They could care less  
  • I've discovered that a large part of the problem is the telcos, at least in NZ.  Here one of the key telcos refuses to certify any Windows phones on its network even though the phone manufacturer was willing to pay for the certification.  In this instance i am specifically referring to the HP Elite X3 but it highlights a major problem for Microsoft.  If the telcos are actively blocking sales of Windows phones then Microsooft needs to change the game.  And in this case redefining the Windows Phone as a pocket sized tablet (ie Surface), with an optional phone app may just work.  I'd be interested to know if this is just a problem in NZ or if other countries have telcos refusing to work with Microsoft.  Perhaps they are scared of Skype.
  • It's a really sad story to be honest.  There we had Nokia with quite a thriving app store, and then once Microsoft got hold of it the numbers just dwindled and dwindled, and to be honest, once my favorite apps were no longer updated and stores had specials that were only available with Android or Apple apps (like Target), that was clearly the sign that it was best to throw in the towel. Whoever is working on the next phone, rumored to be a "Surface phone", I hope that you have other employment prospects, and if not, I would seriously think about transferring out of the Windows phone area.  Unfortunately the phone is doomed unless Microsoft is willing to pour a lot of money into new app development, which I doubt, given its much more rosy prospects in other areas. It's a sad story as well, because with the failure of the Blackberry phone, and the slow and steady decline of the Windows phone, there are really only 2 decent ecosystems out there now - Android and the iPhone.  I'm sorry to say it, but also I think the Jolla phone is doomed too, as it's too small for the component suppliers to worry about, and so it will not be able to remain competitive.   And yes, having loved my Windows phone, I am glad now I made the switch to Android - it's like having been away in a very remote place, and then suddenly being back in civilization again, with all the apps I could possibly need.  
  • I think maybe a more appropriate article to write would be the psychology of, for lack of a better word, a "fanboy." I don't mean to name call, because I am totally in this boat as well. But why is it supporters/fans of a particular company are willing to ignore so many obvious signs that a product is no longer the product we fell in love with and the company has no intentions of reversing course. I mean seriously, Jason I am right there with you, but the last two lines of your piece seem to make a logical step I can't comprehend. If we believe the Earth is flat but then someone proves to us why our beliefs our wrong and the earth is actually round, what kind of people would we be if at the end of that we said, "I understand your points and agree
    with them, but I'm still going to believe it is flat. I mean, you don't have to believe with me, but I'm happy believing things are the way I always have?"
  • Three letters and one word U W P and Continuum. Lets be real, a handful of passionate users are something to care about, but in the grand scheme of things there are far bigger fish to fry so Microsoft is spending their time getting ready for the next battle as this one is clearly lost, but ultimately the war itself has changed such that the next battle is going to look different and that is what Satya ​(I'm personally not a Satya ​fan) understands so Microsoft is arming up for this new direction.  Clearly folks are looking for something and I don't think its available from any vendor right now, so what do you want your phone to do and how do you want your phone to do it is the question. I don't think that Microsoft mobile marketshare could get much smallers so really they don't have much to lose there and even if it did go to 0 with UWP they won't stop working on it as mobile is just a component of UWP.  The third party developer thing is a concern, but right now they don't have a story for them, but that might change when Microsoft is ready to change it.  That said I'm still building UWP apps as I think there is a story coming and I want to be in position to maximize my returns on that when it happens as UWP development has become large and powerful, so lots to learn and do.
  • Of course not, they took away my onedrive storage!
  • that WP is dead is a fact, the ****** thing is that here isn't a real alternative.
  • My 2012 Galaxy Note 2 had seen better days and I wanted a replacement. As I was pleased with my Surface 3, I liked the idea of a Surface Phone. So in April 2016 I bought my unlocked dual sim-free MS Lumia. It suits me as I work abroad a lot, and I wanted to get used to Windows 10 Mobile. I have most apps that I need, I don't play games. My biggest frustrations are (1) the size of the screen (at my age) and (2) I seem to have lost both predictive text and Swype on WhatsApp.
    My dilemma is that I want to get a larger device, such as the 950XL, but maybe the Surface Phone/Pad isn't far away.
    On the other hand, as a 69 year-old one-man business, I won't need most of what a Surface Phone will bring (I miss the pen on the Note 2).
    Last week on my project in Bosnia, three of us (non-Bosnian) went out for supper. Windows Mobile (8.1 and 10) accounted for 2/3, the other was a Galaxy S5.
    So I will wait a bit and see, an Android would be considered as an alternative, never the iPhone.
  • Thanks for the relationship advice.
  • Ahhhhhh WP THERAPY ..........
  • Is this a question? The answer is no. Actions speak louder than words and the occasional "We will continue to support and develop Windows Mo..." speak from MS should be taken very lightly. Are they still technically developing the mobile platform, yes. Why, because it moves other product visions forward and because it's all the same core anyway, so why not. If you are standing around waiting for MS to release another super-phone or even low-end phone, you might be waiting a while. Microsoft has long since abandoined WinMo and to my suprise, there are still users holding onto hope that their might be another push on MS' part.
  • The root cause of each of Microsoft's product failures is very poor MARKETING.  They fail to market their "good" products in any meaningful way.  For decades, Microsoft has missed the boat on consumer marketing.  When we do see an add, its like a bad nightmare.  Poor marking = few sales.  The solution is simple but the solution seems to evade them.
  • Spot on. And I bet at least 85% of people that have a Android/iOS smarphone don't even know that Windows Mobile exists!
  • And yet they most likely have a Win PC at home..
  • There are no viable alternatives for me to leave WP. On principal I refuse to use any Apple product.  I've tried using Android and I hate their UI. For me the only advantage is Android is the apps. If I want Android apps, I have a cheap Android tablet to run them off of. As far as my phone I only use a handful of apps on a daily basis so the app gap is not a huge issue to me. I stick with WP because of the intuitive functionally of the design. When I'm using that Android tablet, I can't tell you the number of WTF times I have had. I always think, this is a lot easier on WP or Windows 10.  For me switching to Android would be a step backwards. 
  • Same here, but running out of options...
  • Not seating around any more for M.S
  • "Do Windows phone fans care about Microsoft?" Not any more. A relationship works both ways. MS took told all their 6.1/6.5 customers that they were dumped and that 7 required a fresh new start. Many users understood. Then MS told all their 7 customers that 8 required a fresh new start. Users were annoyed. Then MS told all their customers that actually this time they were really sure and 10 required a fresh new start. Patience wore out. In the couple of YEARS since MS ditched all their customers for the 3rd time, they've failed to release any innovative device to market. No one's watching any more. We've moved on. To better things. To platforms who want to take their users on a journey of new hardware and software. With manufacturers who aren't in the habit of dumping their customers. Repeatedly.
  • At least the WP7 customers also understood. But there was a huge problem: MS did not communicate well. So even advanced developers could not tell, why there was no upgrade path. Instead of announce cleary what problems they had, there was nothing. On 8 to 10 they broke their own promise. But I haven't seen an excuse or something. Also there were no alternatives for the phones. Especially the 1020 is still the only phone with a great camera in this family - the digital zoom was great. My reason why I stick on my 950XL is, because I still are unlike to use Android and iOS (I have both for development and testing, so not meaningless bashing)
  • If they are actually committed, the silence and lack of news for the platform is killing things for both devs and users. Apps are dropping off all the time and users have been leaving for Android and iOS. Can't see the future strategy as the current strategy is killing the argument and even necessity for UWP...
  • Kind of feel that they tricked us to become beta testers...and pay for it.
  • Seems pretty clear to me that MS is going to roll out full W10 on the surface pocket or whatever, and Windows on ARM for the rest, which only runs store apps. So both sides continue to exist.
  • authors of articles please differentiate windows phone from windows 10 mobile this confuses many readers including myself with exactly what you were talking about
  • Bingo. If only MS could stop changing the name...
  • All I have to say is that I'm impressed. 200+ comments..this show how many of us care...
  • Panos and the Surface team might have the Phone division working under them, sure, but remember how the Surface line started out? They needed to iterate on it and it wasn't until the 3rd gen or so until it became really profitable. Expecting the "Surface Phone" to be an instant success is a dream at best. Not only is the app-gap still present (it might not matter to some of us, but it's a dealbreaker for many). And if the rumors are true and this will be a new device category, it's bound to have a slower adoption rate. You can make the most revolutionary device on the planet, but if you can't convince the customers that they want it... well, you're repeating the windows phone drama all over again. And let's face it, the marketing side of WP was crappy at best.
  • spot on, ppl seems to forget surface struggles, also devices such as 950 didnt struggle due to hardwarem but due to software issues, so how do ppl expect WoA to be an instant success.
  • I end up switching, wasn't happy about it. I truly hope MS can bring out something amazing or someone can make something amazing.
  • Does Microsoft care (about W10M or phones)?
    No new Lumias, but people don't seem to see:
    Alcatel Idol 4S & HP Elite x3 are out there.
    You want to show that you truly are a fan?
    Stop whining and by both.
    AND
    it looks like my x20 series phone just got another update in the Fast Ring.
    Yes, the (Real™) Nokia Lumia 1520 now runs presumably the official Windows 10 Mobile Creators Update. My conclusion (the "fans" may disagree) is that Microsoft DOES care and continues to care - in all possible ways. Haters: please, don't reply. I can already read your hatred everywhere. Go and play with daemons or something... The real loyal royal fans: thumbs up!
  • Time to move on folks. I'm just waiting for the next MS mobile device. I ' M A L L I N ! ! !
  • When I moved to Smart Phones I did it for 3 things, the camera, a mobile phone and the ability to do a number of tasks that would function on a mobile device. Those are still my goals, so if Microsoft never made another "Phone" but gave me a pocketable mobile PC, with a camera, and the ability to make phone calls. I would be more than happy. In fact I would consider it the perfect choice. I am tied to MS with all my computers, Surface Pros, etc. so I still want to be tied to their ecosystem.
  • 2003 called, they want their iPaq back http://www.dcviews.com/press/HP-Photosmart-Mobile-Camera.htm :-)
  • I actually considered buying one of those at the time. 
  • Good luck for Microsoft to have success in Mexico on Windows Mobile, I've seen in the past 6 months 0 support, their Microsoft web page has removed the Lumia devices and Surface devices, so Microsoft where I live is just here to sell Office 365 licenses, too bad that Apple is a company that cares about Mexican customers and Microsoft isn't. As a Microsoft fan I feel so dissapointed they're not investing in marketing of hardware outside US.  Good luck Satya Nadella outside the US, you'll need it.
  • no. if microsoft were committed to windows phones loyalists, they would have made it easier for WP loyalists to upgrade. I was happy with my apps, few as there were, but i wanted to upgrade to W10. ATT refused. I bought a Pixel. I don't need apps for my desktop. I needed to be able to have the apps that work on the desktop, few as they may be, to work on the phone. maybe i should have simply unlocked the phone. Most users just can't do that. Now I'm free from ATT.
  • hmm FOLKS in the mobile device world Microsoft is strong in PC Tablets not smart phones. so it would make sense for them to build a small ARMS CPU Tablet that has a Windows 10 mobile smart phone in it and runs windows 10 mobile OS and use the Microsoft x86 emulation software to run desktop PC programs best run in it's "Continuum" mode. This would make sense although a mini dual screen 7 or 8 inch tablet may not be very pocket able, enough folks and businesses would buy them on a world wide basis to make manufacturing and selling them Profitable.
  • There's a few issues there though. x86 apps on ARM is difficult on a software level and power-hungry on a hardware one. And a 7-8inch device would be a hard sell - too big for a phone, too small to be useful on the move. And no one's buying Continuum - the only units I've seen have been curios or were bundled free.
  • I think it's lame when you listen to Mary J and Paul T bash Microsoft and how they have all abandoned the platform. Suddenly there podcast dont seem to be about Windows anymore. And if it is, all negative.
  • MS deserves it and they are being honest, while WC here is inventing folk tales to keep their readership and promote the myth i.e surface mobile.
  • Why is it that people want all sorts of gadgets doing the same thing?  One device bigger than a smartphone but fits in the pocket that you can do anythign you want to with it is where Microsoft is trying to move the market hence the fact that mobile is still a very much part of Microsoft.  Instead of having just a smartphone with a small screen that you can talk on how about a device that has a larger screen that you can also talk on while doing other things at the same time.  Could be something like a small tablet that folds and when you want to talk you remove the ear device from it's holder just like a stylus that is attached to the side of it would be in order to make your calls while holding your device right in front of you the whole time.  Would be great for business and consumers as well.  Imagine being able to not only order your pizza but actually talking face to face with the pizza place to make sure they understand what you want.  That is the sort of vision I see with Microsoft combining it all into one device for consumers and a device for business people to take with them so they can be in almost constant contact with the office.  I know that some devices can do some of this right now but just imagine the screen being bigger when fully used.  Throw into the mix something like HoloLens and you have it all with one device!  Let your imagination run wild and see where it takes you with this.    
  • "One device bigger than a smartphone but fits in the pocket that you can do anythign you want to with it is where Microsoft is trying to move the market" But everyone else is already there with >5.5inch devices. There's no innovation there. And MS aren't trying to move the market there (when was the last time they released ANY device?), they're not doing ANYTHING.
  • Problem is you constantly hear people think 6" is too big for phone. To me its the perfect size. And they did it-Nokia that is-with the 1520 3 1/2 years ago.
  • I'm glad, I'm a person who doesn't care about apps. If I were, I'd, probably, have gotten another device outside of a Windows Phone. But, as it is, I'm not an apps guy and I love my Windows Phone, regardless of the negativitiy I read about or hear. The majority is just what I read online. No one has really said anything to me about getting another phone, other than my dad on occasion, but he knows I like what I like and I, normally, stay with what I like. I mean, what's the point of having something you don't like?
  • Same here. I just bought the HP Elite x3 when the price dropped by $200.  I don't care about apps and I wouldn't even if the ecosystem had them.  I read news, send emails, send texts, take pictures, make calls, get directions, etc.  Windows Phone is beautiful for all of that. I will buy them for as long as they make them.  
  • Dito, with all of what you said.
  • At a recent .Net Meetup, maybe 100+ attendees, we were doing Microsoft bot framework, so pretty much all C# on VS folks. The speaker, myself and one other had Windows Phones. The three Microsoft employees and two or three MVP's in attendance, all had IPhones, LOL