Windows 10 Mobile might be on the ropes, but Microsoft clearly isn't finished with the platform.
Microsoft observer h0x0d recently noticed two job listings for Windows Mobile careers, and they both highlight Microsoft's continued interest in the mobile space.
More notable than the job listings is the language Microsoft used to describe Windows Mobile's position and value to the company, providing further evidence of its long-term strategy.
The job listings include two program manager positions and a senior program manager role within the Windows Mobile division. In one of the listings, Microsoft describes the importance of mobile in its wider strategy, noting that consumers form part of the agenda.
A new "agile" organization is being created within the Windows and Devices Group (WDG) to build out features such as Continuum and to focus on "cutting-edge long-term investments" in the mobile space.
"In the mobile-first, cloud-first world Windows Mobile remains an important and strategic piece for Microsoft. We are uniquely positioned to support our Enterprise customers, OEM and Mobile partners who continue to invest in our platform and the consumers who are adapting connectivity scenarios like Continuum. An agile and nimble organization is being created in the Windows and Devices Group (WDG) to support this charter and deliver on the security, manageability features for Enterprises and consumers and be part of the cutting-edge long-term investments in Mobile."
We talk a lot about "retrenchment" around here, but the situation for Windows 10 Mobile is dire. With almost no marketing, few consumer-facing handsets, and a near-total communication blackout from Redmond, it's no surprise that high-profile services, developers, and OEMs have abandoned the platform.
With the Windows 10 Creators Update ready to ship, all eyes will be on the Build 2017 conference to see if Microsoft shifts gears towards Mobile again. This will likely include features such as CShell, a new design language in Project NEON, and new handsets running full Windows 10, thanks to the upcoming ARM version of the OS. Oh, hey, there's also always the mythical Surface Phone ...
Take a look at the job listings below, and then share your thoughts in the comments.
Reader comments
Windows Mobile job listings confirm Microsoft's continued support of the platform
Two jobs after they sacked (fired) half of Finland don't demonstrate anything. They just need two more people to keep the 10 million remaining users circus 🎪 running. That is all Nadella worries about... Losing followers for mobile at a pace that doesn't affect the stock and does not disturb the bottom line of immediate earnings.
Nadella is the CEO of Microsoft, not Windows 10 or Windows 10 Mobile. Think of this, what native search engine does the iPhone use......... It's Bing for those who didn't know. Why haven't they switched to Google?? What makes Microsoft unique is that although Apple is their primary rival, they are also one of their biggest consumers. The friend of my enemy...right. Most people who use the Apple ecosystem still prefer to use the Office suite offered by Windows. That's money in the bank for Microsoft, though we look at it through a tunneled prism, I can't fault Nadella for it. MSFT's stock has grown more in the last three years then Apples has....and I know because I am a share holder. I would love for MSFT to go all in on Mobile, but what has stabelized the ship is Nadellas vision, and his discipline to maintain that vision. Right now MSFT is focused on cloud expansion, and outside of Amazon, they lead the pack. They are focused on the Scorpion which I can't wait for next year. Xbox sales are now beating out PS4 sales. The Surface has cemented itself as the top tablet 2 in 1 and everyone is salivating over the release of the SP 5. Although I would like to see the Surface Phone as much as the next person, I like their calculated approach. They have lost OEM's but I'd rather have HP, then HTC, Lenovo, and Motorola combined because with HP you have an infinite realm of possibilities with Continuum. I loved the multi colored Lumias, but what was the intent behind so many? the 550, 650, 720, 920, 920, 1020, 1520, 830...there as no method to the madness. At least now there is something. MSFT will manufacture medium to high end devices and let the OEM's build the low end. Look at what happened when the Surface Pro 3 was released. How many OEMs make 2-in-1's now? MSFT knows they need to knock this out of the park, and they are making sure that's exactly what will happen.
With the next iPhone rumored to carry a price tag close to $1000, people will be looking for an alternative with the security that many are skeptical about when it comes to Android devices. If Apple starts loosing consumers from their iPhone, that will be a big issue. MSFT is already at the bottom when it comes to phones. The writting is on the wall for them. The question is can they cash in on what might be their last attempt at making a splash in the mobile industry. We will see.
So, why would Nadella use an iPhone instead of a windows phone....because his audience is iOS users too.
Am glad to see that MSFT remains committed to Windows 10 mobile , it not only concerns phone but tablets as well . Hope for more much needed marketing and advertising .
These people's main role will be struggling to prevent big corporate Windows Phone byers from suing Microsoft for breaking long-term agreements and dropping support for the devices they bought in large quantites.
Nothing more, don't be too exited.
Nadella is not interested in anything consumer - oriented (desktop too).
3 people ? Wow...
thats all thats needed to turn off the lights and lock the doors venetasoft.
Hmm I think I smell a new brand of Windows 10 mobile smart phones or a smart phone tablet hybrid devices coming Later this year. since Microsoft has been giving out new Windows 10 mobile insider bills I did not doubt Microsoft was still working on improving the Windows 10 Mobile OS but am wondering if Microsoft will have made and sell new Windows 10 mobile smart phones and small tablets. Now i think they are coming because Microsoft CEO Nadella is building the cadre to improve them and sell them better than before. I wish them success!
He's beginning to believe...
Project Android coming? Microsoft apps and launcher on Android OS.
Yes, support is what this platform really needs!
What people forget is about this whole retrenchment thing is that the only reason they had to do a "retrenchment" was because they spent the year prior to that doing and releasing absolutely nothing. They had momentum and more importantly positive press with the 1020, 1520, and even the Icon. Then they did nothing to follow them up.
Think about this. At 1 point they were between 3 and 4% global marketshare. They were doing well in smaller countries and while 3-4% doesn't sound impressive, at that point, there were roughly as many people using Windows Phone in the world as there are using Macs in the world. Funny how we don't see every tech site writing about what a complete failure Macs are. Also funny how Apple never gave up on Macs despite never gaining any real ground.
If you were to read tech sites or watch TV or movies, they make it seem like Macs are a roaring success and yet, there were the same amount of Windows Phone users in the world less than 3 years ago. And then there was Nadella and well now we see where we are thanks to his "vision". Either way, they are done now. I hope they keep theplatform around because I can't stand the others but they last chance they had at success with it died 2 years ago. Nadella has no interest in any consumer product.
the promises of politics.
The only thing that can confirm they are serious about win10 mobile is for their CEO and their sr mgmt team to use windows Phone as their primary phone. Anything less is lying. Would you think the CEO of apple or google not using their own mobile device? For msft, too many strategy resets and unfulfilled promises plus the silly retrenchment.
I just want to know how much money will Windows 10 on ARM cost, so I know if its going to be cost effective for replacing an aged Netbook with Windows XP.
BTW I hope on Build they provide a status on iOS Bridge, I hope this project is going great and soon we can have apps like Super Mario Run on Windows 10 Mobile, hopefully iOS Bridge also works on Windows 10 on x64 so fans of this game like me can also play Mario on our desktops.
Both Balmer and Nedlla made bad decision. Balmer killed WM6 and pushed halfbaked Wp7 which is huge mistake, the direct impact is making Wp market share starting from 0. Give up Wp7 user upgrading to wp8 is another huge mistake .
It's all about money. Do you know what is going to ms's stock when they announce officialy that they exitinig mobiles business/devices? That stock will take a good hit and will dive in abyss. Everybody, even people who do not know if ms had mobile phones will draw a picture that this copmany is only for desktop and office. First of all
I don't believe they are hiring to expand but to disolve what remained. Maybe these guys are going to sell old times windows mobile to candidate buyers like their competitors or telecomuniaction companies.
This horrible CEO may have brought some good figures right now which make shareholders and investors happy, however the name microsoft has evaporated from stores. Ok he hates microsoft mobile efforts and appraises the other platforms by having all his mobile app devs working on android/ios , but what was wrong with other mobile products like smartwatches and activity trackers and tablets?
There is something completely wrong with the bosses of this company. Shrinking the name in the eyes of customers does not making profits. What is IoT and have you ever seen a device except laptop and desktops/servers something Windows? Android like virus is everywhere.
I insist windows mobile is already dead, as is this company in our minds. Operator billing in India is dropping and we talk about hopes? No, mobile as we know and as we use it is not something that this administration can understand. So as good defeatists they try to create a new category and sell patents. These patents which the earn some dollars for each android phone.
So why are we angry? We had something we liked and they decided to take it back. Not to make it better, but to humble it and make fun of as with jokes like UWP, Cshell, single OS, Surface Phone and other fairy tales. We did not chose Windows mobile because it was gift in Pringles. Yes we are hardcores and have a lot of fun with but your decisions show low perception of our needs and punitive behavior for our choices.
As for Windows on ARM it is good to support them but for what? Do you imagine your laptop / desktop in your pocket? A nightmare. Winodws desktop apps in a screen les than 10' is parody.If we talk about devices who run two profiles (one mobile and one desktop through continuum) of Windows then ok. Everything else is para-literature.
they do support all the apps Windows Phone had in both Android and iOS, so the only difference between a phone having all Microsoft apps and Windows Phone is just the GUI, the functionality is the same.
I guess you would need to know what version of Windows Mobile they need these employees for. Most don't realize but if you ever go into a retail environment and see handhelds being used, they are mostly run some Windows Mobile (PPC) Version. That segment of buisness doesn't really have much choice right now other then Windows Mobile. The business I am in using these types of handhelds for mulbtible things. So, this could have nothing to do with phones.
They need some scapegoats to shoot before finally announcing WM as a failure.
Nice, we need hope ☝🏼
Bring Steve Ballmer back!!!!!
So he can continue to beat a dead horse?!
We have you to continue beating a non dead horse.
By now this horse's meat is so beaten it could be used for IKEA burgers.
Come on DJCBS, everyone knows it's the meatballs, not the burgers.
They had already fired everyone. They need to hire new people to fire.
Windows Phone / 10 Mobile is still dead though.
But hey, you want to believe in unicorns, you believe in unicorns.
They need to hire people to shut it down
Microsoft has abandoned the Lumia brand, and will eventually abandon the platform altogether due to the fact that the costs have already overridden the necessity. The decision to discontinue the Lumia brand was supposed to be a sign to other manufacturers that there's now more room for competition; however, the smart ones have already seen the writing on the wall, that there's no way to make a profit with less than 1% market share. I'm done with smart phones once my Icon dies. I love the way the author describes the Surface phone as mythical, because that's exactly what it is, a make believe product that the bloggers have made out of nothing.
Surface phone have been mythical for a year now already, and how far have we come? Nowhere!! Keeps me wondering if it ever will hit the market😂
hahaha! spare me.
Microsoft employees are using Windows Phone or iPhone??? I think Mr. Satya Nadella is also using iPhone only, that's why they are not worried about the app gap in windows phone.....
Irrelevant.
Nutella using an iphone is irrelevant? WOW....you need to lay off those cheap drugs. If that were my CEO, and I was selling a product and he was using a competitors, I would fire him point blank! no questions....BYE!
adjective
not relevant; not applicable or pertinent:
His lectures often stray to interesting but irrelevant subjects.
Here is what irrelevant means, if you didn't know.
It is entirely irrelevant. Because their personal device they're using has nothing to do with what they are developing or building. Nothing.
It is relevant because symbolism counts. It matters when the CEO shows no love or confidence in his own OS.
You obviously have never been in charge of any business etc. Let's say my foreman on my construction team, built a building for himself and used my competitors building instead of buying mine......FIRED! No questions. You think that Nutella is fine using an iphone when he is employed by microsoft who was selling phones when he was using the iphone? thats just mental. Bad business tactics and lack of character!
Look, that is a entirely different scenario than someone using a different device. Your foreman went with a wrong company to build a building. The CEO of Microsoft uses an iPhone to make phone calls and checks email. That device doesn't run the company, it's an aid. It is more for the image that he is presenting, that us few fans will take note of, but it doesn't change how he will build Microsoft as a whole. Believe it or not, but I think Bill Gates uses an iPhone as well.
Bill Gates is not the current CEO. YOU have no idea on how business works etc.......let;'s put it in EASY terms...I dont care if its a phone, car, wig, clothes or ass scratchers. If you are running a company....that sells something...Using a competing product shows lack of commitment, faith etc to the general public. SIMPLE....If you were the CEO of Mercedes and drove a bmw to work every day there is 100% chance your fired. it's just a tool...it gets you where you need to go. but the other ******* tool called a mercedes....or in this case microsoft lumia, pays your ******* bills! SInce I guess your just an employee and make no business decisions, you would not understand, or care to understand BUSINESS 101.
No... If Mr. Nutella uses a windows phone, he will surely understand what the os is lacking in. So that he will force his team to fix that and concentrate. If all the employees of Microsoft use windows Phone, their contribution of ideas will help develop the os and many of them will develop apps according to necessity. Mr. Nutella and his management team using Windows phone will surely create a change.
Not worried about app gap? Guess the billions they funelled into UWP/developer tools/xamarin and even adding linux and other support for windows 10 just to get more developers onboard is not a worry. Mobile as we know it is dead for MS. It's the future that they need to worry about. You can't compete with two titans. Just like no one could compete with Microsoft in the PC industry.
I sincerely believe that windows mobile has the bright future, because I have been using three android phones (updated to 6.0 )but something is definitely different which keep me interested on windows phone always.
Hm. So, a phone you basically can't buy at any of the major carriers, in which people are not invested in the eco-system, for which there are no new products, nor anything new that the compettiors don't have, and coming from a company that basically doesn't use the product themselves or even communicate what is going on... has a bright future?
My guess, MS will have a hard time holding a 1% market share by years end.
You forgot the apps...well so did Microsoft so I'll let you off lol
1%? How do you see them quintupling their current market share in 8 months time?
They don't have a 1% market share now mako. They will be lucky to have a .000001% market share by year end.
Sales share is expectedly minuscule as they have nothing on the shelves to sell.
Don't care. Given many chances, not going to give another.
I totally agree with you👍
agreed....I gave them 3 and they failed each time. 6.0 - 7. 7-8....8-10...bailed on each of their devices/OS platforms....BUH BYE to windows mobile. I bailed on everything microsoft for awhile...but I HATE MacOS. That OS is pure *****! So, windows for my computing and IOS for my mobile....happy happy camper!
they could of kept windows mobile afloat by reassuring the oems and consumers promoting there existing phones while secretly planning there under hood strategies with the platform. But they treat windows phone like a unwanted step child. Microsoft is a big company they can afford to keep things on a loss if it means a greater profit will come in the future.
Greater profits were not coming. Every iteration had failed miserably. Microsoft needs to kill it completely and change their strategy. This one has failed enough times.
I'm glad they don't agree with you.
You will be happy to see them fail miserably again? Why do you hate Microsoft so much?
Windows phones are a dead end. 6 years and they have had no adoption. How long should they beat this horse?
Sounds like they have a couple H1-B visa favors to cash in. They couldn't have re-hired one of the thousands of American citizens laid off recently?
I think this is the end guys, CU is probably the last update for Windows 10 Mobile. These hiring's are just for exceptional inconsistences or problems in the OS.
So they increase the size of the team for no further updates. OK.....
Totally logical I'd say 😆 just like Microsoft is all the time.
BonzeUk, the needed a few people to turn off all the computers/lights of the thousands of Lumia employees they have let go over the last couple of year, literally they have buildings full of computers that are still on waiting on someone to turn them off.
When you use words like agile, that means you're downsizing or expecting a few people to perform multiple jobs duties. I would think the size of the "team" is either shrinking or at best staying the same.
Call me crazy, but I still think that Windows will be at like 30% on the phone market in a few years. Obviously, this "few" isn't 1 or 2 years, I'm talking about a 3 to 5 years prospective. I think, that in 2020 or 2022, it will be like 60% android, 30% Windows and 10% iOS. But only time can tell.
"Call me crazy, but I still think that Windows will be at like 30% on the phone market in a few years."
This is what we said in 2011.
I used android in 2011 😁 Switched in October 2015, because I had enough of it. So I don't know what you said in 2011 😂 But I still believe in this.
Yes, you are crazy! Most of us would love to see just 3% again!
Aim at the moon, and the worst that can happen to you is landing between the starts 😉
I think Microsoft is currently between the "starts"
Oh, did I screw up the spelling? Sorry, I didn't notice that 😁
Its actually quite a true statement...Use windows moible/phone and you will always land between STARTS!
Unless Microsoft can bring something revolutionary that no one has ever seen before, they won't even bother trying. Microsoft is too hung up on Windows to get it done though.
Not sure about crazy, but most definitely hilarious. (Sounds like someone from 2010-12) Its really been over since about 2006 when Ballmer was unable to see the market was in the beginning phrase of a shift... its over.
"It's dead, Jim" - Bones from Star Trek
In fairness other phones existed before the first iphone, it was a fancy cloud connected calculator... with zero apps. Windows Mobile back then had various OEMs, it was running on PDAs and other handled devices. You could really tinker with it and load custom .cab files it was way more open than android. You just need to look at the xda roms that were cooked up back then.
So Ballmer didn't "fail" per say infact he was hesitant and understandably so... would you risk antagonising a large revenue stream for something that may or may not take off. We all know the "history" but many do not know the actual story and presume to know because they read some article somewhere lol.
Ballmer was correct in that people were probably not willing to buy a $600 phone, what he was wrong about is not forseeing the carriers would sub the cost of the phones. He failed to recongize a major shift in the industry and in turn doomed Windows presence in the mobile market. Its not a huge knock on him because I actually agreed with him... the problem is not forseeing the sub by the carriers. But its all over now... as you said its history... the shift was completed a long time ago. Unless Apple/Google mess up or another shift of the market... its over.
My guess... MS will have a hard time holding onto a 1% market share by the end of the year. There is no reason for developers and companies to even consider it as a platform... but that is kind of history... its been over for a long time.
They are well before 1% already. Currently they are at .3% and dropping.
Quarterly sales, yes. As expected. You're not offering any insight. When you have nothing to sell...nothjng sells.
If quarterly sales are bad, which they have always been for Windows phones, then usage numbers are also going to be bad. You don't seem to understand. People need to buy the devices before they can use them. Not many people have ever bought Windows phones so not many people are going to be using them when compared to the competition.
The math isn't that hard. If you maxed out at 3% of quarterly sales, then your usage % can't be any higher. For example, if you sell 3 phones every quarter and I sell 97, after 2 years if you assume life span is the same for each device, when you add up numbers your usage is still only going to be 3% because I have also been selling phones. You seem to think you can add those sales up each quarter and the percentage somehow stacks.
When you have been at 1% or less for over a year, then your usage stats are going to also drop significantly. You can't actually post usage stats because Microsoft doesn't disclose them because they are embarrassing. All we have to go off are quarterly sales. Quarterly sales are terrible and always have been, so usage is also going to be terrible.
@MakoDaniels. Actually Apple and Google have missed the next shift. Too many operating systems. Sure there are real world merits for this but with advent of connected devices, one single operating system is key. But that also makes it the biggest target. Because there are no redundancies if it becomes compromised. Which is why security must be at it's core. However Microsoft clearly knows that, otherwise the military wouldn't be picking up W10 tablets lol.
I agree there are probably too many operating system, Windows Mobile whether 7,8, and 10 have been selected by the market for elimination, kind of like the dinosaurs. What does the military have to do with anything? DOD has millions of Windows machines... very few of them are mobile devices. The primary mobile devices for government for mobile will continue to be iOS/Android. Obviously if you need to run naive Win32 those are not really an option. Interesting, I have been looking for a replacement for my 8 inch Dell Venue Pro... well almost none on the market now in the 8 inch space but most of them are cheap quality builds.. .most of the major third parties have really stopped/slowed with Windows tablets.
@bleached I didn't hear it was that low, saw about 1% market share at the end of last year... either way.... dead and buried platform... which is what I think you are suggesting.
@Mako Daniels, you need to look beyond what you see. The military will only use software and hardware that they deem as secure. Why do you think they have been slow to upgrade certain things. The fact they are taking W10 on the field speaks volumes. They could easily fund their o/s and use that broadly should they wish :)
Tech, I worked in tech for DOD for nine years in IT, that is not really how it works. DOD runs all the major OSs, not sure what you are getting at.. and if you want to see IT waste.. go work for DOD. If one has to run Win32 there is limited options... so I fail to see what your point is... DOD has millions of Windows PC so? DOD has had Windows machines in the field since basically Windows was released... nothing new there. Either way I agree too many operating systems... it was obvious 5 years ago that Windows Mobile with Blackberry have been targeted for eliminated by the market..
I was getting at they were rolling out W10 tablets in the field, by your statement they could have easily used ios or droid devices.
I doubt they would be upgrading mission critical devices like field devices readily to W10 without proper assessments on security.
Tech, you really aren't saying anything. Its very obvious you have no experience in the matter, when I worked for DOD, all major OSs were being used including multiple distros of Linux. Of course Windows is being used, what else are they going to put a Win32 app on? I actually don't know what you point is.... does DOD use Windows machines, yup, they have been since Windows came out. If you have a Windows 32 program what else are they going install it on... an iPhone? I know you are trying to make a point, but I fail to even have a clue as to what that might be.
I am aware that all operating systems are being used, I was refering to the recent article - this: http://www.windowscentral.com/us-army-deploying-nearly-10000-rugged-geta...
It's apparent that you have not read that :) or aware of my general reference to this transaction with Getac.
@Tech Again, what is your point?
The article you reference has nothing to do with anything other than DOD placed an order for 10,000 Windows tablets, so? I was at a location that had 10,000 windows devices at ONE base, again, so? Normally yearly rotation was around 3,000 devices a year. They apparently need a device to run a Win32 program. Again, not sure what your point is... DOD has millions of Windows devices and has had millions since the early 90s and these have been used in forward locations as well... nothing has changed there.
As far as Windows Mobile, dead. As far as Windows on tablet, pretty much dead. As far as Windows on 2n1... well just a conversion of some normal laptops/desktops to 2n1s. Mostly there is no or negative growth in Windows OS although some people/business are converting to 2n1s.
If your point is that Windows on tablet is going to be a player.... well, lets put in perspective... Apple isn't selling as many tablets... matter of fact the market is saturated.... last quarter they still sold 145,000 per day.... of course Android tablets sell more. https://www.statista.com/statistics/276651/global-media-tablet-shipments... https://www.statista.com/statistics/276635/market-share-held-by-tablet-v...
MS is not even in the ballpark let alone playing the mobile game...
1. Mobile phone dead
2. Tablet pretty much dead
3. Customers converting desktops/laptops to 2n1s... sure but no real growth in the PC market which these still are... if not negative growth.
Yeah, you're definitely in another universe. The overall tablet market shrunk by 9% in the last financial quarter, and Windows tablets were the only ones that managed to grow. I'll link the article about this from OnMSFT if I find it.
I think your lack of experience and strange perdictions are from another universe. Tablets have been in declined because there is limited reasons to upgrade... as far as Windows tablets, not 2n1s... they are basically disappearing from the market... not that there was ever a ton of them. I can tell you the 8-inch Windows tablet market is basically gone and WIndows 10-inch market is pretty much there as well... the PC market as far 2n1s seem okay... no real growth in PCs but many of the PCs are being upgraded to 2n1. As far as a pure Windows tablet... well... not sure I know anyone else that has one but me.
I was using as surface 3 as a tablet/desktop/notebook device. It worked OK for 2 out of the three. Trying to be a tablet without software/apps is its downfall. Windows in any sort of mobile space is crap. desktop and notebook useage its awesome. apps are what kills the experience.....Sold my surfaces...got 2 ipad air 2s for tablet use, and two new dell 2 in 1 notebooks for desktop/notebook use. The ipad is WAY better than the surface as a tablet...and what you would use a tablet device for, as is the dell computers are way better than the surface as a desktop/notebook device.
No, what YOU would use a tablet for. The Surface is far superior for those that need a real computer in a small form factor.
NO...what MOST people use a Tablet for, consumption of media....a real computer needs to be a computer..not a tablet running full windows. and with out great apps, the surface / windows tablet lineup fails. Apps rein supreme in mobile space...always will. If the surface lineup was upgradeable, then I would have said they are as good as a "real computer"....you cannot upgrade the HD, ram etc....
You are not most people... The market of Windows tablets is the only one that manages to grow, while the overall tablet market shrinks...
I have an iPad air 2. And it's just crap compared to a Surface 😂 Man, it doesn't even have a kickstand, so it's a pain in the ass to use it for watching movies (the biggest purpose of its existence)... Right now, my wall is holding it in place while I watch HBO GO on it (because my Lenovo 2in1 is still at repair, faulty battery, sad story). And it can barely do anything... So you are just biased towards apple 😝
OHHHHH a kick stand....wow..... and NO i am not bias towards apple you are bias'ed towards windows and thinks everything else is garbage. sorry bud.....MAN. I am typing this on my 2.in 1 WINDOWS computer. If I was so biased towards apple don't you think i would be using a ****** macbook? Exactly! I use was works. MS does not have the apps to make the surface work as a tablet. Sales show it. The ipad outsells windows tablets by a fiar margin....why? not because the windows devices are bad hardware....its because they don't have the apps for people on the move....JUST LIKE THE PHONE.
At times timing is everything. Even though a decision is made to make a shift, it does not mean everyone agrees. Makes me wonder from Microsoft's corporate persepctive, who really sees the mapping laid out. I think that is the part for folks like me or maybe you, who know and only see bits or pieces of what is really going on. The hard part is keeping people, corporate players, and just consumers confident. Even Lenovo put words out there about it's lack of confidence in Windows 10 mobile, but for some reason still came with the Softbank device...There many more pieces to the puzzle, and sometimes it seems the number pieces keeps growing. For those of us that can tolerate everything we read, we will stick around for the long haul :).
Yeah and the Palm Pilot will make a comeback too.
Or HP's mobile OS....
Makes me wonder, "How long has Mobile been without Program Management"!!??
Oh it was being taken care of by the Janitor till now.
All I saw now was Janitor from Scrubs when we posed as Doctor!
Since about 2013 I'd guess.
When is #Build2017?
http://build.microsoft.com/
How's your Idol 4s going?
10-12 May
What's the point? That supposedly mobile and productivity focused update has become a creators update. May be good for long term but nothing in short term is just killing it.
"Windwos Mobile" does not necessarily mean (only) the "Windows 10 Mobile" OS we currently know.
But mobile is definitely part of mobile.
Right, it probably means working on iOS & android offerings.
Finally the one guy left working on W10M will get some much needed help :D.
In all seriousness though, this is good. It gives a reassuring message to the people still using W10M that are losing faith in the platform, which I'd imagine is a lot of people.
Maybe they'll get around to fixing the gps/navigation issue. Or not. I'm about fed up. This is a basic function for phones today and I can't rely on it. It's unacceptable
MS is hiring two new employees for windows mobile because that one developer was lonely :D
LOL
legendary comment!!! hahaha. made my day.
Crazy article title, excellent comment Lpneo. I about spit out my ceral. :) I will note that they are changing the name of "Build" as everything is always delay till the next Build... so the went ahead and changed the name to "Next Build".
Three managers bossing poor developer around, just the solution he/she was waiting for ;)
Hahahahahaha!!!!
Best comment ever :)
This is very interesting. It's reassuring.
I agree it is, I just I hope they pick up the pace with more hirings...
I couldn't agree more with you on that. Hopefully this equals to doing things better.
Better late than I never I suppose. Logic and Microsoft don't really go together at all. They had so many talented people with the D&S acquisition..... It's almost past the 12th hour now. They better double down on mobile pronto if their are to have any hopes of rekindling anything.
Even though they flipped and flopped from WM 6.x to WM 7.x to WM 8.x to WM10 there were always active development from developers, partners and good reasons.
But WM10 -> ??
No good reason at all, they had so much momentum and were almost at that pivotal point in a few key markets.... If they maintained that momentum it would have been so much easier to engage developers on UWP apps as it's really forward thinking then onto Ai and beyond the curve computing. But Microsoft being Microsoft, always knee-jerk reacting.
They need to get out of that engineers bubble where people become stats and numbers.
This bubble is why they always get leapfrogged even when they are first to the game.
But I don't know if they ever will get out of it.
Selling some $30 phones in price conscious markets isn't momentum. Continuing Windows Mobile is a mistake. Microsoft needs something new, not the same failed platform and strategy. They are wasting their time.
@Bleached Look in the UK, Nokia Lumia was everywhere. In some markets Windows Phone had a higher market than ios. User engagement numbers were over the roof when Nokia was pushing Windows Phone. Just because you saw $30 dollar hands sets in your region. Plus unlike the US, carriers were happy to push Windows Phone, their reps however were not so eager. Regardless, in the EU where carriers are just dumb pipes, they don't have much hold on what devices people use. Plus we don't have to deal with carrier specific models suchas the lumia icon let alone the CDMA nonsense :P.
Plus there are so many things that added together to bring Windows Mobile where it is today, you may not see them however others do. I could cite my background here but that's just being petty in trying to provide a reference point.
They sold a few L520 and then those people didn't upgrade to the higher end LX30 devices. Motorola and others released really good low end devices and stole that market as well. Nokia was frustrated and left. Doesn't sound like they had much momentum at all.
You can't really compare sales between the L520 and the iPhone. It is like comparing sales between the Ford Focus and Ferrari California. If the Focus was barely beating the Ferrari in a price conscious market, Ford wouldn't be happy either.
A few L520s?
You sure like to look everything with negative connotations and things that only appeal to your bubble :P.
True Microsoft could have put more resources into it back then but they wanted to play nice with the US carriers i.e secure sim - mobile wallets. But that got them shafted. Then there was the architectural issue, where a simple facebook backend changed required an o/s level update. As response they developed the social extensibility framework because apparently the social networks wanted to utilise their UX instead of the integrated solution that Microsoft was pushing. But again they got shafted, so you see the return back to the hub model. Which is why I said they are always knee-jerk reacting. Then you had people clamouring for the UX to be ios and android like. But they never really "picked it up" claiming it looked no different and didn't want to switch. Meanwhile they left the UX and experience sullied for those who saw the merits and potential of Windows Phone. That is what happened in a nut shell.
The L520 was the only device that Nokia was able to move.
I agree with your other points. Windows Phone was mediocre and didn't resonate with anyone but Microsoft fanboys. Microsoft failed to create a universally loved platform so it failed.
they had higher market because Lumia was cheap and Android 2 - 4 had worse performance then WP 8/8.1... but thats the history. Nowadays cheap Android phones have decent OS speed with minimum lag + China offers good HW for fair prices like Xiaomi
Exactly. A $100 Android phone is amazing these days. It is crazy how far they have come.
I'd love to see which $100 Android phones you feel are amazing. All the ones I have seen are poor on specs and features.
I have a Samsung Galaxy Grand Prime that literally cost $30. Lag is minimal and it runs all the apps I need. Sure, it doesn't have waterproofing, NFC, or a high end processor but the screen is decent and so is the camera. It runs everything we have thrown at it and I would prefer it to any Windows phone.
There are so many $100 Android phones these days. I am sure almost all are better than flagships from a few years ago.
I remember seeing the Grand Prime. Retail cost was around $200, but most prepaid carriers had it down under $100 with a signup offer. Sounds like you got a decent deal.
I could say the same things about my L640. And it does have NFC.
I also have an L640. It is trash next to the Galaxy. NFC doesn't make up for all the shortcomings in Windows 10M. It is laggy, apps take forever to open. There are no customization options, no decent apps and the interface makes everything a chore. Waiting for long, slow animations and plodding through that inane app drawer is so frustrating.
The Galaxy doesn't have those issues. The interface is quick and the app drawer fits much more on the screen. You aren't spending forever trying to find that random app. There actually are apps available and they open when you click on them. Then, the apps are even far superior. Everything on the Lumia is outdated, it feels like using Android in 2011.
We're all entitled to our opinions. I have an L640 as well, which I used when I was on TMo, and I miss it now that I'm back with Verizon. I picked up a Moto Z Play and have not enjoyed the experience or issues that Android has to offer.
The app drawer/app list is a matter of opinion. On my L640, I just pinned all my regular apps to the Start screen. Half of them, I simply relied on the live tile for info, and never had to open it. I knew where everything was, and could get to it within a second. And, I never had the performance issues you mention. Performance was on-par with my iPhone that I have for work.
So, we each have our experiences and opinions based on them.
Agree with DragonPoo . I have a L640 and it works fine for the price I paid , less then $100 unlocked , lots of apps , dual sim , lag is minimum , almost never hangs . I much prefer WM10 to Android but that's a question of personal taste
Agree with DragonPoo . I have a L640 and it works fine for the price I paid , less then $100 unlocked , lots of apps , dual sim , lag is minimum , almost never hangs . I much prefer WM10 to Android but that's a question of personal taste
I'm a big Windows fan, but I love my $100 Moto G4 Play.
Moto g4 can be had for $160 new these days. Snapdragon 617, 2GB Ram, 16ROM with SDXC, decent camera, runs nougat. Faster in everyday use compared to my 950, gets better battery, camera is no comparison to the lumia though.
The only reason Lumias sold in Europe was because they were Nokias. Nothing else.
That really is clutching at straws. That just isn't how it works in a big company. Low level positive messages and recruitment will continue whilst the Board is discussing exit from a market and mass redundancies. These adverts say nothing about corporate strategy.
So you think hirings can happen without the upper management's approval? Got it! 😏
And senior hirings at that! Not just some junior engineer. This will get to the board.
Naaah, you're rather clutching at straws ;)
Oh wow, I'm so not excited. I'm not on any insider build, but my phone randomly restarts, lock screen is acting weird, and sometime my phone won't play music until I restart it.
Do a full reset.
Great news , hope the best to grow up and be on the top 👍
I still think the retrenchment was a dumb idea. Had they kept promoting their phones we probably could've gotten more phones from more oems like LG. But once Microsoft themselves stopped promoting their phones and os it self what makes them think other oems are going to be interested in making a phone. Now we have only a handful of phones now, and only 2 with the 820 processor that's only available on gsm.
Me and Zac fight over this. I agree with you that they shouldn't have retrenched, they surely could've afforded whatever investments to keep it afloat, they let Bing go on loss making for years in order to keep it in a position to make a comeback. Even if W10M is ready for a comeback, it's gonna be extra hard cus of the way they've treated consumers and developers over the last few years.
Yea that's my point. With their lack of communication from Microsoft, no kind of hope (at this moment) for new hardware, things have been looking kind of gloom and doom around here. The lack of support from Facebook on keeping their fb and messenger apps isn't up to date either it's making the OS look abandoned in consumer and developer eyes. The only phone that has helped a little on the consumer level is the affordable flagship Alcatel idol 4s. They need to partner with one plus one or Huawei at least to get a couple more phones or even get roms released to run on some of the android phones out there.
There were always a few consumers. The other 90% never used W10M. So, there is a world to win. Let's see what happens next...
Before Microsoft got rid of the Nokia branded phones they were actually getting promoted and had phones on almost every carrier at least. Now there's 0 promotion, 0 hardware, and apps are leaving or being abandoned by developers with alot citing their uncertain about Microsoft seriousness of the platform and Microsoft hasn't taken the hint and done anything to address the doubt from consumers and developers
Apps being abandoned is not the issue, as it is legacy code. The question is how many will release at launch of Windows for 64 bit ARM. Such processors are in phones already.
The promotion of phones and the reaching out to developers was ALL Nokia's doing. Don't fool yourself, Microsoft never really cared.
Which is why Windows Phone died when Nokia left. Nokia's brand and efforts were keeping the platform alive. Without Nokia, it died. Just like a body dies without a brain.
I'm of the mind that a retrenchment was a bad idea too and completely agree that burning consumers is going to make it a very hard comeback. Although, I will say this gives them time to plan things out, I think it's going to make the work a LOT harder for them to recover into a viable state in the market.
Any consumer that has used a Windows phone before and left for another OS will be hard to win back again, but when we look at how Microsoft has handled Windows 10 and their Surface devices over the past few years, even winning over some enthusiastic Mac users, there is hope they can do it,
I feel Zac just feels somewhat indifferent in regards to certain aspects for instance suchas laptops 32gig storage which I believe are a terrible idea. You only get what about 12gigs of storage if your lucky from 28gigs which is not enough to even install the anniversary update via WU.
Going back to the topic at hand, I agree, retrenchment was the most ridicululous idea they ever put out. This is why I say they are in an engineers bubble only engineers would look at stats, balance sheet and telemetry then base decisions on that. Any engineer worth his salt would do that, which is not the problem the issue is that they treated people like numbers. People aren't numbers, most are fickle with emotional attachments lol.
I would say the writing was on the wall when they swung that massive axe on the mobile division... sure that fuels consumers with confidence...NOT!
With their ability to look beyond the curve, they always forget their roots. It's the people. People adopted Windows en-mass and brought a PC into their home. If they didnot Microsoft would not be where they are today. Less focus on analytics, telemetry and more focus on people!
What happened to the mantra - "we didn't design windows phone for all of us but each of us?".
In a slight variance of Ballmer's famous chant. "People, People, People!.
Say what you want about Ballmer, he took risks, he let Xbox take a hit with RROD and if he did not we would not have a complete ecosystem at all - No other company is in such a position. Ballmer was correct in acquiring the D and S division but the potential was squashed before it could be even realised.
Lol, yes I'm getting somewhat passionate about this subject... I just find it galling when there is so much under utilised potential. Windows Phone/Mobile could be so much more than what we have today,
I know it's out of context with the article, but I have to agree with you on the 32GB thing.
Yes, and they should have kept it afloat with WP8.1 at least until W10 was really ready.
Interest in UWP was low anyway, and they would not have had so many "unupdateable" devices becaus of natural replacement.
A chunk more attention to the update to W10M later on, here and there a cool new phone, the outlook that all these new phones would run W10 (say from Spring 2016 onwards) and marketshare would not have dropped that much, especially in Europe.
UWP would have been a lot more attractive to developers, and we would be further ahead with UWP now.
Cannot agree more with Jez and the rest of you saying retrenchment was bad. Fighting back from a position where you have a small market share is much easier than trying to claw your way up from having almost zero market share.
MS made the wrong choice by putting mobile on life support. I'm not really a fan of the choices Nadella has made, if they have been specifically his choices of course. I always liked Barmy Balmer lol.
I hate to nitpick, Jez, but as I consider you a professional writer, seeing you say "Me and Zac" makes me sad.
I don't disagree with what you stated. Just how you did it. :)
"Zac and I" Damn, who's your editor?
There is no editor. Why would there be?
I feel as though they did it because their plan involves something either radically different, or something they're not quite sure themselves what it is.
I understand their position somewhat, but do also agree that having kept some semblance of market presence would have been advantageous.
I agree the way they "retrenched" (it seems more like a retreat) was a mistake. When they initially talked about it, I was hopeful that they were going to do something more like Apple did when Jobs returned in the late 90s. Macs were in a similar situation to Windows Phones back then: a confusingly large lineup for a small market, sold through retailers who didn't promote and even disparaged the products. Reducing the lineup to a core few focused devices and partnering with select retailers to get things under control worked for Apple. MS talked like that was what they were going to do, but they really didn't.
I completely agree. Windows Phone has been on the rise. Especially in Europe. Although they were still persistent with a US only features. In some major European countries they have even surpassed iOS. They are only supposed to continue giving full product line, and the trend would continue. But instead we get half of x40 product line. The lower ones, without Flagship. Than half of x50 line, with unready Windows 10... They should launch x50 line with Windows 8.1 update 3 or something, till Windows 10 is ready. Unfortunately, everything stopped for Windows Mobile since Ballmer gone.
Barely outselling iPhone in a couple price conscious markets selling $30 phones isn't worth anything. Worldwide, sales were terrible, especially after Android caught up on the low end. Microsoft had nowhere to go.
Lol, you have no idea. In Europe there is no cheaper Lumia than 100 EUR (5X0 line). And they sell very well. I have not heard of such a low price anywhere. But there was low prices only in US. They tried in US too hard, instead they focus on better markets...
They didn't sell that well and the few people they did sell them to didn't upgrade to the 730, 830, or 930 as Microsoft/Nokia hoped. People didn't seem to like Windows phones, otherwise they would have upgraded from the L520 to the newer devices. In Europe, the Nokia name brought the initial sales, but the Microsoft software prevented future sales.
I will have to argue against "retrenchment" comment. Let me preface by saying that I hated hearing that Microsoft is going to, for lack of a better term, back off from the mobile platform. I disliked developers disappearing and taking their apps with them. I also disliked the opinion-journalists writing horrible pieces that has anything to do with their mobile OS.
However, I'm OK with the retrenchment, because they were able to look at their mobile strategy at an "out of body experience". To look at it from the outside. If they didn't take this approach, would they be where they are now? I don't know, but I'm sort of glad they did.
I am convinced the retrenchment is a good bet, but a bet it remains. From marketing perspective Microsoft has seemingly discontinued smartphones, which allows them to make a splash with something that can be presented as eye catching different, grabbing attention and raising desire to own. Such a strategy is called "changing the rules of the game". So far Microsoft seems to be rather good at that with the Surface line of devices.
We have 64 bit ARM processors in smartphones, but which OS on such devices is 64 bit?
And, the splash is not in April, it is in October with the Redstone 3 release. Meanwhile, cloud services will get an upgrade. I bet ;-)
"Soon"... In October, when RS3 is released and had no improvements for mobile again you will be saying the same thing about RS4 and April. Just like last year and the year before. With Microsoft Mobile, the answer is always 6 months away.
A refreshed 950 and 950XL would have been nice this year, just to instill some confidence. 950s 950XLs with Snapdragon 820 and 821 with same display storage and formfactor like iPhone 6 and 6s. This would have cost them almost nothing while still letting consumers know they want to be in the mobile space.
New misspelled I am not a grammar person just trying to help. NIce to know they are committed to the platform.
Fixed, sorry bout that.
And yeah, hopefully we'll see their full commitment on stage at Build.
Hopefully they will show it before BUILD.
MS can afford to wait a year or two to release the Surface Mobile since the W10 user base is growing, the W10 enterprise sector is growing, the Windows Store is gowing, 5G is coming, foldable screen is coming and the chip technology (7nm, 5nm, 3nm) is fast growing. A favorable environment is fast building up for the introduction of Surface Mobile in the next few years. The foldable screen will be very critical and important for the success of Surface Mobile. It would not only provide the needed screen real estate for running full W10 apps, it would also help to mitigate the app gap issue. The WP apps are dwindling but the W10 apps and web apps are growing. Both W10 apps and web apps are much more robust than the phone apps. The foldable screen virtually provides a PC display in your pocket at all time. (Continuum is fine but you need to look for display.) You can run all your banking, financial, retail services and entertainment apps on the unfolded tablet screen efficiently. The need for phone apps will be greatly reduced. Hopefully by 2020, we will see the W10 user base grow pass 1 billion, Windows Store apps grow pass 1 million, the new Suface Mobile will be powered by a 5nm Snapdragon chip, equipped with a foldable screen and supported by 5G network. The 'Ultimate Mobile Device' finally arrives.
I would like whatever @Yangstax is drinking or smoking!
pass it around I'd like some of that to.
You don't need any more drinks. :-)
You need a clear head to see the points I'm making:
- W10 user base is growing and the Windows Store apps is growing with it.
- TSMC is building a $16 billion plant to manufacture their 5nm chips in 2020.
- MS has filed patent for their foldable screen phone designs. They have signed up with LG to use their foldable screens.
Is my expectations (or dream) out of line? I don't think so.
I noticed this too lately, the Windows Store is going through the roof - with customers and new apps (I expect apps parity with ios and android combined at the end of the year).
Next I sell my android for that new shiny Trekstor Windows 10 mobile smartphone device. Trekstor is an underrated hardware maker in the country I live in. Yay! Zey make really high quality devices! Zey will make WindowsnPhoen great!
;)
I'm seeing rumors of a new Lumia phone coming before Surface Phone/Mobile.
Really, can you give me a link? That's a ray of hope for me.
I was thinking about buying a new windows phone (I currently use a Lumia 535 running win10). I checked online and I couldn't find anything new. Only used ones or age old Lumia 730. I really want one but the OEM phones are not available in my country. If the surface phone takes more than a year to come out, I'll have to switch platforms.
"NIce"? People in glass houses.........
...don't throw stones.
I'm assuming, those are Gorrilla Glass 3 houses? Although they probably need a lot of screen protectors.
Funny, there is a mistake in the Msft quote too. "Adapting" should be "adopting" :-) .