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Hey Windows phone fans — Microsoft doesn't need you for 'Surface phone' to succeed

Despite the benefits our years of commitment have brought Microsoft's Window phone efforts, we may not be important to the success of the next step in its Windows-on-mobile strategy.

Consequently, those fans who feel abandoned due to Microsoft's lack of communication, minimal support and apparent lack of passion for Windows 10 Mobile are likely acceptable collateral damage from Redmond's perspective.

Microsoft's ultimate mobile device strategy is, in my estimation, about inspiring a new category of ultramobile PCs with telephony. I believe Microsoft sees that potential market, in the long-term, as much bigger than and far different from a handful of passionate smartphone fans.

Still, Windows phone fans have invested time, energy, money and passion into Microsoft's shifting Windows-on-mobile vision. Besides supporting its decisions, we've offered Microsoft candid constructive criticism, held leadership accountable to their commitments or lack thereof, and even expressed our ideas on how Microsoft's mobile vision could potentially succeed.

Loyalist's investments are not one sided either. Microsoft includes fans in the OS's development via the Insider Program. Early access to new builds and open dialogue with Insider Lead Dona Sarkar have empowered fans. The reciprocal sense of involvement has given loyalists a feeling of real investment in the present and future state of Microsoft's Windows-on-mobile vision. The candid truth, however, is that Microsoft may not need our help to ensure whatever's coming next succeeds.

Windows phone fans have been all-in

Fans have prided themselves on how they've contributed to keeping Windows phone alive beneath the shadow of the iPhone and the army of Android phones that dominate the market.

So, of course, we're important, if not vital, to Microsoft's mobile vision, right? We're essentially partners with Microsoft in its Windows-on-mobile journey. Well, that at least seems to be the sentiment of some Windows phone loyalists.

Microsoft has benefitted from our promoting the platform, passionately dogfooding (and enduring) buggy OS builds and purchasing unpopular yet expensive smartphones. Certainly just as the past and present state of the platform has "needed" us, the future success of Microsoft's mobile vision must be equally dependent on our support, right?

That's a reasonable deduction, but it's not necessarily true. What many call a Surface phone, and CEO Satya Nadella calls an ultimate mobile device, can likely succeed without us.

https://twitter.com/erisdanmacielbr/status/820053136530440192

Given the increasingly toxic environment that is the Windows phone community and the diminishing goodwill fans have toward Microsoft, Redmond has likely deemed little meaningful support would come from the minuscule community of fans. Its long-term strategy probably doesn't include its shrinking crop of smartphone loyalists as factors in the success of its PC-oriented ultimate mobile device strategy.

The sad and humbling truth for both Microsoft and fans is that if this is the company's view Microsoft has contributed to turning fans away from the platform. Also, Microsoft is probably right; we're likely not needed to help an ultimate mobile device succeed.

It's not over

Microsoft's apparent strangling of Windows phone is likely a strategy to remove its smartphone efforts from the market in preparation for its ultimate mobile device strategy. This process is causing a lot of angst for Windows phone fans, however. The community is becoming increasingly angry and impatient as it awaits a definitive word about Windows 10 Mobile, which isn't likely going to come before the next phase in Microsoft's mobile plan is ready to launch.

It's important to note that Microsoft is not just moving old smartphones out to move another smartphone in. I believe as a new category of mobile device, Microsoft does (or should) have an accompanying strategy tailored to introducing, positioning, marketing and encouraging PC manufacturing partners to "copy," as they have the Surface, its ultramobile Surface PC. Part of that strategy, in my estimation, requires the current phase of radio silence so as not to tip its hand.

Windows on ARM is for PCs not phones.

My analysis is that Microsoft's next take on mobile will be with a Continuum-powered Windows on ARM ultramobile PC with telephony and CShell. This, I believe, will be Nadella's ultimate mobile device and will not be a smartphone, nor will it be marketed as one. It will be a pocketable PC, positioned in the market as a PC that will be capable of making phone calls.

Acer Jade Primo packaged more like PC than phone.

Acer Jade Primo packaged more like PC than phone.

This analysis is consistent with Vice President of Operations Group Joe Belfiore's recent statements that Windows on ARM is not for phones, but for PCs. From Belfiore:

The Windows 10 on ARM effort is about enabling the PC experience on devices that are built on ARM so that they're connected all the time and have great battery life ... it's not a phone-like experience.

Windows on ARM and an ultimate mobile device

What I am and have been proposing would not be a phone, but would, via CShell, have a user-friendly context-conforming UI that adapts to desktop mode via Continuum and a touch-and-pen friendly UI when in hand.

Also, Belfiore's reference to Windows 10 Mobile as the current OS for phone-like experiences, was just that, a reference to its current OS for phone-like experiences.

I believe the ultramobile PC will have telephony as one of its many PC capabilities, but it will not be its leading attribute. The anticipated form factor is expected to be unique. The design and positioning may also be meant to conform to the reality that telephony ranks after traditional PC activities like web surfing, messaging, social media and other activities users engage in on their smartphones.

Since smartphones are increasingly used more like PCs, developing a pocketable PC with a touch-friendly UI that becomes a desktop via Continuum and for which telephony is but another "app" function is a reasonable strategy. Many fans are looking forward to such a device that challenges the concept of what a mobile device can be.

Out with the old, in with the new: telephony-enabled PCs

Microsoft faces the challenge of using its position as the creator of category-defining Surface PC hardware to educate the masses about this new type of telephony-enabled PC. The idea of a device that can make phone calls while not being a phone is a difficult concept for many to grasp, however.

Perhaps the precedence of millions of people using Skype on laptops, 2-in-1s, Surface Hubs or tablet PCs to place voice or video calls over the internet can be used to provide helpful context and to stretch naysayers' imaginations. And for those who diminish the role of imagination in the practical application of technology, all of the technology you love began as reality-challenging ideas in someone's imagination.

After a shift to Windows on ARM, Microsoft's long-term goal is likely to target a much broader market than the relatively few dedicated Windows phone fans who remain. As a PC, and with the critical and strategic support of PC manufacturing partners, in time the ultramobile PC category's target market will likely extend beyond select markets to encompass hundreds of millions of PC users. This is a multi-phased and long-term effort that requires strategic marketing. Support from PC manufacturers is also critical to bringing this device category to the masses.

Though over time, the telephony aspects of this device category will allow these ultramobile PCs to begin to overlap the smartphone space, it is not expected nor is it my analysis that they will drive iPhone and Android users to immediately replace their phones with these devices.

Your services are no longer required

Naturally, developer support remains a key factor in the efficacy of ultramobile PCs, particularly when in hand and not in use as a desktop. Thus, Microsoft has a lot of work to do to create a unique experience and to win developers in order to position an ultimate mobile device for success. Though some fans may feel their past support suggests that they're also needed for Microsoft's future success, they may be mistaken.

Candidly speaking, of the world's billions of smartphone users, Windows phone users make up less than one percent of the market. Of that one percent, just over 20 percent are Windows 10 Mobile users. That negligible number of Windows-based smartphone fans, from Microsoft's perspective, likely has little strategic value for helping to promote the concept of a new brand of Windows PC with telephony.

So, Windows phone fans, Microsoft's ultimate mobile device, if it succeeds, can likely succeed without us.

Also Read:

How Microsoft can ensure Surface phone success

Is Microsoft strangling Windows phone to prepare for concept of a Surface phone?

What is Microsoft's intelligent edge and how does it affect mobile?

Microsoft's Surface 'phone' should include AR glasses, a pen and exclusive apps

Jason L Ward is a columnist at Windows Central. He provides unique big picture analysis of the complex world of Microsoft. Jason takes the small clues and gives you an insightful big picture perspective through storytelling that you won't find *anywhere* else. Seriously, this dude thinks outside the box. Follow him on Twitter at @JLTechWord. He's doing the "write" thing!

427 Comments
  • Thanks for reading folks! This was a harsh truth, but likely true nonetheless. Microsoft does not need the 20 percent of the less than one percent of Windows smartphone fans to help its vision of a new PC category, ultramobile PCs with telephony succeed. We've invested a lot and many passionate fans feel abandoned. This truth that this article highlights probably does not make you feel any better. But hopefully it provides perspective and helps someone think about things from a less "restricted" fashion. Many people consistently see things within the limited context of the smartphone space and only entertain the variables associated with that space and how they may affect a user and his/her personal desires and expectations regarding a device. I've tried to communicate what may be just beyond the threshold of the stage of transition we are in and the realities, factors and variables of that new context. This discussion is often difficult to have when participants occupy to different sides of that equation. Hopefully, this piece effectively conveys where I believe Microsoft's strategy is taking us and why our role as Windows smartphone fans may not be important (as it has been) to the next stage of a category of ultramobile PC's with telephony. Also though nothing is guaranteed I hope it is clear that the strategy is not what many seem to presume is being argued: "entry of a Surface phone in the market will change everything and iPhone and Android users will simply flock to it." That's has never been my position. I've argued before and hopefully more clearly articulated here that this is a long-term process of introducing a new category of PC into the market that requires the support of manufacturing partners. And of course as I have done in the past, I acknowledge that Microsoft must work hard to address the app situation. So I think we have a lot to talk about here beyond the usual "iPhone and Android users won't drop their phones for this and it needs apps." What are your thoughts. Can a Surface phone, ultramobile PC succeed without, us? LET'S TALK!!!
  • I see you've finally been certified :)
  • As an useless writer that writes about nothing. Remember he is the one that thought that cerulean was going somewhere. We should really listen to his analysis :-D
  • Put a smiley face at the end of your nasty comment as if that makes it better.  He is entitled to his opinions, wrong or right.  That's why its an editorial.  But hammering him for being useless is about as useless as your comment.
  • It's a laughter so it's appropriate. And I pointed out that his opinions are always either very inconclusive or plain wrong so this time it won't probably be any better.
  • So what? That's what opinions are, NOT facts.
  • The "distinction" between opinion and fact is quite useless.  When people "give an opinion" they are invariably stating what they believe to be the truth, or a fact.  At the best a distinction between truth and opinion lies in the "complexity" of the issue asserted.  For example, World War I started on July 28th, 1914,  yet the reasons for World War I are more complex and more likely to be a matter of opinion and debate. So any speculation about the future of Microsoft's endevours in mobile is a matter of debate or opinion, yet Mr. Ward asserts the liklihood that his analysis is correct.  That is certainly his perogative to express what he believes to be the case.  It is however useless to say it's an opinion as that adds nothing to the discussion.  Mr. Ward is asserting what he believes is true and stating that it's an opinion certainly does not remove his assertions from debate or critique.
  • Thanks for taking the time to explain this, the opinion excuse is getting old.
  • Actually, the distinction between fact and opinion is profoundly useful. A fact can be relied upon no matter who holds it or acts upon it. Gravity, for example, is a fact. Whether you believe in it or not, if you jump out of a plane it WILL pull you toward the earth, end of story. An opinion, however, may vary wildly. I might say "Broccoli sucks!" for example, but someone else might say, "Nah, it's alright," while another says "It's amazing!" and still another says "Depends how it's prepared". If I say "gravity doesn't exist", I am wrong, period. If I say broccoli sucks, that holds no weight outside of my own perspective. See the difference? Far from useless, it's PROFOUND.
  • less illuminating that you might think. yes, some empirical data is discreet and well accepted to be defined as "fact". However in analyzing complex issues and trying to extrapolate from incomplete information leads to the likelihood that the analysis would be best defined as "opinion". As invariably people state their opinion implying it's truth, their opinion is up for question and critique. There are no special rules for analyzing or critiquing opinion versus other assertions. Mr. Ward has presented what he thinks is a possible stratagem and trajectory of a "ultimate mobile device." Therefor those assertions is up for debate and critique.
  • No, it's not less illuminating at all. A simple fact about information: it's ALL incomplete, ALWAYS. 100% of the time. Our universe is a complex place with more variables than we'll ever be able to account for, that's true--but it doesn't mean facts and opinions are essentially the same. A fact is a piece of data backed up by empirical observation and testing that yields consistent results regardless of who's conducting the test. An opinion is merely an expression of personal interpretation. It might have an empirical component or it might not. For example: I might step outside where someone's been working all morning while I've been sitting in the dark inside and say "Damn, the sun is crazy bright today!" They might reply that it's no more bright than usual. Both these have an empirical component, derived from an observation of the outdoor lighting conditions provided by the sun, but further refined by each of our respective "lenses" on the subject, mine being that I came from a darkened room, his being that he's been working outside and has acclimated to the conditions. On the other hand, it may have no empirical component at all: "I hate Tom Petty", I might say, no additional empirical data at all. As I said: there is a profound difference between facts and opinions. I fully agree Mr. Ward's view is an opinion and comes with an assortment of supporting data (much of which he's misinterpreted because he's a fan who simply doesn't see the writing on the wall), but that has no bearing on whether facts and opinions are the same thing. They are not.
  • Let's make this super succinct for you.  If someone gives their opinion their assertion is both up for question or debate and the method of analyzing or critiquing their opinion is done in the same fashion as any other analysis.  That is are the premises true and is the "argument" sound?  As I stated, there are no special rules for analyzing opinions and to state that something is an opinion does not except it from critique.  I repeated both those ideas multiple times. So when real0395 stated "So what? That's what opinions are, NOT facts" they are adding nothing to the discussion.  Opinions are still able to be critiqued and critiqued in the same fashion as any other assertion.
  • He stated many times he didn't know what was going to happen with the cerulean, and he didn't have high hopes. He was doing what he is paid to do, tell the story, uncover the facts. Stop being a ****
  • Hi Paolo, thanks for devoting a portion of your finite and irrecoverable time to virtually every one of my articles despite your "stated" opinion of their value. Given that the things to which we devote our time are usually the things we value, your actions by faithfully attending my work, betray you words regarding its value. So thank you for coming. Also, as my parents taught me, If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. I have pretty thick skin. As a minister, writer, former educator etc, I need it! But, when you say mean things it says more about you than the person you're talking about. Something to think about. Have an AWESOME DAY!!! :-)
  • keep up the good work. It's too easy to go negative on MS these days as seems to be the trend, so the fact that you keep pointing out that there might be a larger strategy in play has value in this community. 
  • Said the guy spending tens of rows to respond. And no, everyone of us spend time on stupid things too like reading silly void articles or wathcing a stupid movie and so on and so forth.
  • So, if you don't like it, and know you never will believe it, then why do you waste your time reading it?
    1: You don't read it, which gives you no room to disagree
    2: You agree, but at this point don't have the nutz to admit it.
    3: You want to be negative, because you're a troll.
    4: You don't have a reasonable reason.
  • I already answered, for the same reason you watch stupid movies, to have a good laughter.
  • #4, and
    5: You don't have a life... Got it. Understood.
  • Childish
  • The guy who mocks a reputable editor, for the fun of it, says childish.
    ......
    The guy who has a cartoon cat as his avatar says childish.... Please
  • I mock a writer because of what he wites. An avatar is an avatar. Grow up.
  • You're telling someone else to grow up.... You'll never learn. Please.
  • Please don't put Jason Ward and reputable editor in the same sentence. It's a disservice to real journalists everywhere.
  • Dude, leave this guy alone. He is just trying to get a rise out of you and the writer...don't let him. He doesn't believe what he writes, again he is just trying to goad you all.
  • Oh, I know who he is.. No matter what you say he will counter it.. If I said MS sucked he would disagree.
  • You know who I am because since the site exist you were never able to contradict me while I always explain things for what they are. I defended MS when was the time, now MS, on mobile, needs to be attacked, as simple as that little guy.
  • Ah, ha. Your epidermis is showing.
  • Jason...check out the Windows Central podcast where Zach and Daniel had Dona Sarkar on. They talked about mobile and Dona goes on at length about how the future is not walking around hunched over your phone and that the future is not through a screen. Could the new ultra mobile device be a pocket computer that stays in your pocket while tethered to smart glasses to give an AR user interface ? That would be a new category for sure and would bring together all of MSFT's areas of expertise.
  • Hi sph0308 Could be. I actually wrote an article not long ago, it's linked at end of the article under Also Read: Microsoft's Surface phone should include AR glasses, a pen and exclusive apps. Check it out, I delve into the whole AR aspects of an ultimate mobile device.😎
  • Jason Ward..........
    I think Mobile, and the Automotive industry, are a huge part of technology in the future... What MS does, and doesn't do, now is gonna greatly affect their position in mobile, and frankly it already has.. Automotive Infotainment systems are becoming a major selling point in cars, and iDroid are the ONLY two popular players. We can see that the loss of a popular market today can also lead to the loss of new markets tomorrow. 7 years ago, nobody foresaw that WP's lack of success would lead to MS lack of inclusion in the GROWING infotainment market today.
    IMO, the Auto Infotainment market is huge already, and destined to become vital when buyers choose a mobile device, and a vehicle. Once again, MS is nowhere to be found.... I think that MS not being in the car is just as much a deterrent for buyers who might otherwise buy a Pocketable Ultramoble PC,,,, as apps are. Once again, MS is behind the curve in the latest trend in mobile technology. This is scary, yet auto infotainment systems are rarely mentioned... I'm asking you to put your expert research, opinions, and ideas behind an editorial discussing what I think is a vital matter in MS mobile future. It's that important.
    Apple CarPlay
    Android Auto
    Microsoft ❓
  • You tell em Jason Mate. I read windows central because there are less trolls and what not on this site.  A bit like my community of pc gamers and builders page in australia. 90 percent have good and informative contributions. Unlike other websites where that percentage is closer to 10. 
    Keep up the good work. 
  • "Remember he is the one that thought that cerulean was going somewhere." False. Paolo Ferrazza, JW never claimed that Cerulean would succeed. On the contrary, he asked the CEO direct questions challenging why he was enthusiastic in spite of so many factors working against him.
  • Even this ARM device needs apps that work on a small touch screen. Therefore MS should be really firing up UWAs but as usual it's not. So this new device, like Windowsphone will start out with practically no apps and therefore be DOA. These MS people just don't have a clue.
  • Hmm you covered yourself a bit there saying "IF" it succeeds. Their plan may be to usher in a new device category, but they did that with HoloLens and although it's fairly popular things aren't looking perfect there for commercial success. Apple are getting apps built first, that will work on any AR Hardware they release down the line. MS has limited developer hardware and limited developer commitment (relatively) compared to how ARKit from Apple is blowing up. I dismissed ARKit initially as something we've seen before, and it kind of is but that's not the point of it right now. I fear for MS they are being outplayed by Apple in AR because they talk too much and move too slowly. All the cloud stuff is brilliant, and as a developer I love working with it. They have some of if not the best tooling in the world, I think they'll keep winning here for a long time, but in actual products especially brand new ones I'm not confident. They don't have the agility IMO. I think Apple truly will beat them in AR in terms of commercial success, despite MS often having much better technology
  • P.S I use a 950 and don't feel "abandoned". I'll buy a new phone in late 2018 as I always planned to. Hopefully there is a MS product available at the time as I like Windows a lot. iOS looks okay but things like Outlook have crap integration so I would probably just switch from them. Being in the UK I'd also lose Cortana for which I use for reminders a LOT. I'd be forced to find something else cross platform that offers similar reminder triggers. I'd like a Windows device that can replace my phone please, but then I've never personally been burned by WP over the years, guess I've always just been lucky and got a few years out of all my WP and W10M devices, if you're stupid and buy a £400-£700 phone with it NOW that's kind of your own fault....having bought the 950 near to launch rather than waiting around for a year it just means I've had another Windows device that's lasted me nearly 3 years....so nothing to complain about in that sense
  • If you don't feel abandoned wielding a 950, you are incapable of feeling abondoned.
  • It's just a phone to me. I never expected to get apps like Snapchat, sad Continuum was never developed but I'm a power user on PC so it doesn't fit my needs.
  • I dont feel abaondoned. I bought a product. I knew what it could do when I bought it and I was happy with it. 
    I didnt marry it, or commit to some kind of relationship. Its a smartphone. They are all "obsolete" in 2 yrs. If you didnt know investing in the Windows Phone platform was a risk by the time the 950 came along, you were clueless. Its always been a platform on the edge of surviving.  Its not personal. They didn't sell and MS was forced to do something else. What do people want? A breakup date at a nice steak house? 
  • mmmmmmm steak
  • My Nexus 6 is now 3 years old and isn't obsolete. I am having a hard time finding a device to replace it. Maybe the new Pixel or iPhone will be enough. It is big, fast, has a great screen and a decent camera, minimal bezels and is water resistant while running the newest version of Android. There are currently no devices worth updating to.
  • Oh so it has the most recent OS directly from Google? No it doesn't. It has 7, but won't get O so stop the BS.
  • O isn't out yet. This fall it will be behind, but it will be over 3 years old then and Google will continue supporting it with security updates for another year and Google Play Service updates for several more years. If I keep it, then I will easily be able to load O on. Being a Nexus, custom ROMs are stable, easy to find and easy to flash.
  • How do you contradict yourself in the space of two sentences?
  • Maybe the Nokia 8 rumored to be released on July 31 ?
  • Lol. Yes! Where's my steak??
  • So your whole point is that you started with low expectations. And no, phones don't get "obsolete" in two years. It just so happens that the carriers - mostly in the West - dictate the upgrade cycle.
    My mistake. I should've excluded the types of people who are ready to fork out hundreds of dollars for half baked OSs and flimsy hardware, on a platform that in comparison barely gets any apps or games. Yes, if you start knowing all of that, you don't feel abandned. You are just perfectly happy with an abandoned platform.
  • I do not feel abandoned with my 950. I am seeing nice app updates on a daily basis.
  • Nice apps? Explain
  • Why are you lying? I also have a 950xl, the apps are shyt.
  • I have a 950 and don't feel abandoned at all It works fine and does everything I need for now. If Microsoft does release something new in 2018 that is a new category device or advance in technology I wouldn't really expect my near 3 year old advice to potentially be compatible, and if it was compatible I would expect it to be hampered somewhat. 3 years is a long time in tech, so if a new device does come along depending on what it is I will go with the next incarnation or switch to another OS if I'm not happy with it. Either way I would have enjoyed a good 3 year run with my 950
  • If you wish to upgrade every year that's your choice but it's not as if the 950 just stopped working.  Mine is still doing all I ask of it.
  • Show me, don't tell me. I want to see results. I want to see efforts. Then, I'll come back to Microsoft's Windows Phone.  
  • I think you missed the entire point of the article......
  • HoloLens wasn't intended as a commercial success when it was announced, and they explicitly said that they weren't looking to release another version for consumers until at least 2018. There still isn't anything like it. Apple ARkit, while it can run on any of their hardware, having a screen as a window into the AR itself isn't even close to the same thing as HoloLens. More importantly, augmented / virtual reality is a platform for Windows, not just an extension, which is what ARkit is. This is evident in the changes in Windows' next update and beyond that. The entire operating system can be used in augmented reality which is simply not the case for Apple. It feels a lot like Apple doesn't know where to go from here, and they keep banking their success on consumer lock-in. 3D Touch, TouchBar, dual cameras, Apple Watch, just feel like a lot of "meh" and, to me, shows a serious lack of vision. In other words, I think MS is on the right track and a bit ahead of the curve, because, again, there is nothing like HoloLens or the Windows that it runs on. More to the topic, Dona Sarkar was asked in a recent interview with Dan Rubino about the future of mobile. In her response, she articulated how people are always looking down at their phones and gives a glimpse of what she envisions as the future of mobile. See here: https://youtu.be/KOa0tkSBlLQ?t=1480 She also describes design beyond screens, and that's certainly where they're going. I'm shocked that no one really talked about what she said in here, because it speaks magnitudes of where they're going and what they're doing.      
  • They are ahead of the curve on Hardware (for now) but they are automatically falling behind on software - If you can learn about and build ARKit apps now, and they will run on future hardware that's the one that is getting a lot of people excited - It has a much lower barrier to entry. A young developer isn't going to be able to afford a HoloLens, and a lot of other devs may not be able to justify the cost either. People still use PC because of the software it can run, and MS can keep that going with UWP going forwards, but people won't use HoloLens just because it's MS. If Ikea build on ARKit for their consumer apps today, and don't need to re-learn anything to build internal apps that run on Apples hardware (at some point in the future). How many times does history have to repeat itself before people and companies realise having the best technology or product doesn't mean you'll win a specific market. MS have the superior product by far, but they need to speed up a little bit, I believe in the whole AI, screenless technology and I think we should absolutely be moving away from apps on a screen but look how long it takes them to localise products and features, even just to the UK.
  • "If you can learn about and build ARKit apps now, and they will run on future hardware that's the one that is getting a lot of people excited" ARKit apps will actually work with a lot of current hardware (iPhone 6s and later, iPad Pro) - they are going to launch this in the early fall with an installed user base in the low 100s of millions and grow from there.
  • In terms of Apple Watch, I don't use iOS or an Apple Watch but their product was more successful than Band and they moved quickly to add water proofing etc. whilst MS struggled to create a strap that didn't break - Ultimately the hardware design was a big factor in Band failing - They must have replaced close to 100% of devices during the time it was on sale. I still use a Band 1 but I had to get multiple Bands of different gen replaced over time, and all for different reasons never related to any extreme use.
  • And I wear the original Band every day till date. I guess I bought the correct size and that saved the strap from breaking. I also own a Vector Luna, which looks good but gets nowhere near the options and flawless integration that Band has with my W10M.
  • My Band 1 (had one of them replaced) is what I'm using now. Miss some of the features from Band 2 like music and the better menu layout. I had to send back 3 Band 2s but on the third time they has ran out and sent me a cheque instead. Was gutted! I actually think the band 1 is more durable strap wise but cosmetically it wears down quicker than Band 2
  • Band 1 was uncomfortable on some level, but 2 was defective as it cracked on the band
  • Hi Drpuppy: I've mentioned a few times in some of my pieces that the ultimate mobile device would benefit from Microsoft's investments in Mixed reality. I then dove into a bit more in a dedicated article titled "Microsoft's Surface phone should include AR glasses, a pen and exclusive apps". Check it out😎:https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-should-launch-surface-phone-ar-glasses-pen-and-windows-exclusive-apps
  • I agree, sounds like history repeating itelf............over and over and over.
  • I think the way apple is approaching vr is more likely to succeed, however it's important to remember that the ios era apple has had some pretty spectacular failures and also historically they move pretty slow. Apples weakest point is that they won't release a product that undermines the iPhone, that's a huge Windows for both HoloLens and cellular pcs to gain traction. 
  • Agree with your points. I don't think Apple NEED to move as quickly though due to the cult following and growing popularity. That could bite them, just feels like MS needs to move quicker than others if they want to draw people in. Creators Update added mixed reality and we are still.waiting on the partner headsets. I'm in the queue for a dev unit still
  • When have you known Microsoft to be "agile". The are the 100,000lb gorilla that just keeps going due to momentum. they are great at the enterprise/govt level because they can have to corporations and govt buy multi year deals and milk it for every penny. That does not work with consumer devices. You have to be able to entice a group of people and there are a bunch of groups in society and they have never ben able to conquer that dynamic. Yes, the Windows desktop is not a win again they ring-tailed the corporations to win that battle too.
  • I brought up my new topic again..
    Automotive Infotainment Systems.... We need an editorial discussing this in detail.
  • Definitely, I would want to see them making moves into this with any new device.
  • In order for auto manufacturers to pay engineers to code support for your platform into the dash of their top selling vehicles you have to be SERIOUS business.. Right now, MS doesn't even have a phone. How much hope is there? If a Surface Mobile PC does drop then MS must have these services drop with it, day one. Infotainment apps, and mobile payment apps that work.. Both, require the complete cooperation from many industries. Can MS get on your dash, and on the front of Coke vending machines as a pay option, right next to iDroid? Do we understand how huge a task this is? MS is ten years behind!!
  • We don't need MS to need us.. That's part of thier problem. To much dependency on "fans" to make thier products successful,, then they don't listen (well, that's not entirely fair for me to say🙂)... We need MS to do what big businesses are supposed to do. Make big things happen...
    ........
    Right now it's not a question of whether MS needs us, rather whether we need them (mobile)... We, and the average consumer, need to need MS's Surface Phone.... So, I agree Jason.
  • Sadly I agree
  • I think you  stopped a little short. What I think is a little more than they don't need us. I firmly believe that they DON'T want us.  MS thinks that where they are going, they don't need consumer base -- rather they are targeting business. I think that they believe business is all that is required for long term success. Reminds me of IBM in the world of PCs.
  • More like they don't need nor want the aggressive, condescending self entitled bunch of idiots that label themselves as hardcore fans while in the same breath manage to offend and alienate the very people they want their demands fulfilled by.
    But that's just me 🤓 I think Jason hit the nail on it's head mentioning the toxic environment.
  • Lol it's like if americans complained about Hiroshima being toxic. They polluted the community willingly and then the ploblems is the toxicity. Don't make me laugh.
  • The toxic environment is coming from both sides - There's a lot of ass hole "fans" who are horrible and whiney, but you can't even ask a question about Mobile these days without people getting all defensive about it.
  • didn't IBM bet on mainframe rather than personal computing? If this is right then i think you are correct but it already happened - The juggernaut that is Microsoft was to big to flipalter course and follow the touch screen trend as google did when it cooied Apple within a year. MSoft have since repositioned themselves as a royalties recipient, cloud and online office supplier and the share price is very healthy considering it lost out in the most important computing revolution since it dominated the previous one. I would suggest that you have also not gone far enough. I propose that from about the same time that websites like this one started to say maybe Windows phones could be better which co-incidentally was also about the same time the CEO said they use IOS in house was also the time that really they wished they could just bin the embarrasment of Windows 10 mobile and it's band of merry followers.   Microsoft's share price is excellant, they are doing very well even with us bad mouthing them at every opportunity. I suppose because the only people that hear our complaints are ourselves. I think it's called the echo chamber. As i'm re-training now so won't be in line for a new high end phone to replace my l950 next year I should probably just delete my live tiles to these rss feeds. And stop thinking about it. The question this raises though, 'after 5 years, how hard is it to ween oneself off the windows news feeds?'
  • Actually, IBM (in the business environment) was betting on the AS400, OS/2, Token Rings, with PCs on every desk for access.  The rule once upon a time was that nobody would be fired for using IBM.  Unfortunately for them, they weren't able to just rest on their laurels as OS/2 was not good, Token Rings were did not maintain position as the fastest network, and their PCs quickly became under preforming and over priced.  That, I remember... I worked at a major IBM partner and saw that up close. Now, MS (IMHO) is banking on the fact that they rule the business world and that alone will give them success when they take mobile to the next level.  They don't believe they need or want personal users.  
  • That's a possibility. Can't argue with that.
  • Jason,  I believe you are wrong on that. Many of the "fan" like myself are also developers. I saw a great potential with Windows Phone, but over time with lack of support and changing how the apps were written i moved way from using the platform for development. I still use windows phone day to day, i have a large number of the phones i boought for testing. I watch as one by one supoort for them dwindled to only one. There is a level of trust that Microsoft needs to build. I will always use the phone, but i doubt i will ever spend my money like it did for Win 8.1/WIn 10 on the phones.  
  • This, I am a dev too and felt disgusted by the treatment we received. I have also apps for Microsoft Band in the store... The irony...
  • There was little purpose in Mr. Ward attaching his statements about fans being unnecessary for a successful "ultimate mobile device" to his standard line of argument.  If an "ultimate mobile device" was successful, it would be by definition have more market penetration than current or even past Windows Phone/Mobile market percentages.  Yes, a successful "ultimate mobile device" would have more than current or past Windows Phone consumers, it's a tautology.   Does Microsoft NEED the support of current and past Windows Phone/Mobile customers and fans?   That's a good question and Mr. Ward really doesn't explicitly give reasons why the support of fans would be unnecessary.  Typical analysis usually assumes that fans would be brand advocates. It's not hard to come to the conclusion that this talk about fans being unnecessary is a type of a troll of Windows Mobile fans attached to the same line of argument Mr. Ward has been pushing for some time.
  • But havent the rest of 99.8% of users already rejected MS mobile efforts. The new surface phone users will mostly likely be the users who like or use the sub 10in tabs.
  • Any early adopters will be W10M users who don't mind not having all the "hottest apps" - Hardly anybody with an iPhone who thinks they NEED those apps will switch or carry a second device. I don't care about most apps so I'll be happy to buy one to keep using Outlook Mail etc as I do on my phone today.
  • What a load of crap. Smartphones have been blurring the lines between phones and PCs for several years now. This new "thing" by MS is just the next iteration of the same.
  • Except, markrgray, what I'm proposing here would not be the blurring of the lines between a phone and PC. It would be an actual PC, running Windows 10 with CShell. It actually diverges from the iterative path iPhone and Android phones are on which is a rectangular slab making yearly grabs toward more PC-like capabilities. This, what I'm proposing, is taking a PC and moving it into the mobile space. With the work MS is doing with Windows on ARM, cellular connectivity, a universal platform and Continuum the pieces are in place as they have never been before. I talk about it in great detail here: https://www.windowscentral.com/smartphones-are-dead-part-ii-evolve-or-die-microsofts-ultra-mobile-pc-strategy
  • But without regular apps to use on the phone side, there will be no widespread adoption. Which consequently means no apps, and the cycle Continues. MS is going to need to invest a lot into getting devs to bring apps over or else even a surface phone will be DOA. It will be years before they will be able to build a steady ecosystem. Without the ecosystem I think devs will look into Samsungs dex instead of MS Surface Phone. In that case it doesn't matter that MS efforts will be different, Android and iOS will win out.
  • Jason, tell them like this...
    1.. Take a Surface 3.. It has an LTE chip, runs full Windows, has no fan, and is probably the closest thing in processing power a SD835 could give you.
    2.. Take that Surface 3, and shrink it down to a size small enough to fit in your pocket.
    3.. Rework the Surface3 with an ARM chip, Cshell, and enable the telephony, and messaging, capabilities the Surface3 already has (it even has the apps).......
    There. A Surface3 in your pocket that has a mobile interface until it's used via continuum, and retains system wide inking. That's a "Surface Phone"... It's already here, sort of.
  • Sometimes, I think the people that haven't used a small tablet with LTE are the ones that are having a hard time imagining a Surface Phone... Carry a Surface 3, and your smartphone, around with you for a week. The idea of a Surface Phone will come into focus, and make so much sense you will feel like you actually need one... I don't know how else to put it. Dare someone say this would simply be just a Smartphone...
    People need to understand that even in 2017, for MS to make a Surface3 the size of a 1520 is no simple task. But, the technology is there, and some of it is coming about as MS runs into many imminent obstacles while producing this thing.. This is no "PC" stick, rather an all in one so damn small it can fit into your pocket. All while making sure the Software works great, controlling heat, battery life, quality, and making it look appealing.. Add in any other innovations, like a folding screen, and MS (from an engineering standpoint) is sending a man to the moon... This device just can't be engineered overnight.... Now, are we talking about an incremental smartphone🤔
    No... This product does not yet exist outside the walls of a laboratory. If it were to drop today there would be nothing in the world like it. MS has the best chance to pull this off before anyone else does, and they need to. What could go wrong is the same as someone choosing a iPad pro over a Surface Pro... The Surface Phone can't come out today, but MS has no time to waste.. If Apple, or Samsung, introduce a similar, but inferior product first it could mean trouble.. MS can't afford to not be aggressive with marketing of this device. This would be the Halo Surface device, the most personal Surface device you can get.. MS has to control the mindset of consumers with this device, and dominate perception so hard SaGoogApple won't even waste their time trying with anything less.
    And if MS doesn't know by now,, enterprise customers are regular consumers first, not the other way around.
    That has to be the mindset in Redmond.
  • Hey Rodney, I love my Surface 3 with LTE.  I've had it a couple of months now.  I fully get the idea of an "ultimate mobile device" with telephony features.  However here's the problem, if this device is the only thing you are going to carry around with you, then the vast majority of consumers will expect that it will run apps similar to their phones.  It will be a useless distinction whether or not Microsoft will have ititerated the device from the PC side of the market segment versus the smartphone side, because people will EXPECT, nay demand that this new device have the apps that their current smartphone does. In the short to medium term the paucity of UWP apps is a strongly limiting factor for market penetration in the smartphone segment.  However in the tablet segment, telephony features is quite a value added feature.  In the long term a "ultimate mobile device" could be successful in the smartphone category if Google or Apple fails to stitch together a desktop replacement that shares Android's or iOS's current ecosystem AND Microsoft finally gets real traction under their UWP endeavour.
  • Jason addressed this in the article, anticipating exactly what you just said... Lol.
  • i am window phone user since window mobile 6.1 .  Its Samsung SGH i900 or other names Samsung Omnia.  Then i bought Nokia 800 . after 2 times screen broken... i bought nokia 710 ..but it just secondhand phone after that i bought new First Microsoft LUMIA 535 phone (first Dual sim , 5 inchh phone)  . But just 2 weeks ago i just bought Nokia 3 use Android 7.0 platform. For me : a) Window phone @ Lumia Series phone super expensive phone .  b) Price  and Specification are not balance. Android phone many can get 3000Mah batery but Window phone 3000 mah battery seems like..... c) If Microsoft allowed ARM use Window 10 full version whats the point to get Surface Pro , Surface Laptop ? As i know there  only 3 version Window 10 avaiabble at this momment . Window 10 Home , Window 10 Pro and Window 10s. 
  • Well Jason, I believe most of us windows phone fans actually want an ultra mobile PC with telephony. It's just that we have been stuck with smart phones running a limited OS until now. Windows phone was just the least worst alternative we had. I'll ditch Windows phone in a heartbeat, if I can get a device running Win 10 on ARM and telephony.
  • I have no desire for a largish "ultramobile PC" or whatever as my primary telephony device. Right now I can make and answer calls with my laptop and go online over LTE with a single click. And when I am not close to my laptop I can still make and answer calls with a conveniently sized smart phone. I can see some business uses (just like businesses use MiFi and LTE modems to do this now), but for most users this is completely backwards.
  • I laugh at the utramobile pic comment.   So it will be a tablet.  Not a phone.  No matter how it is spun.  It's either a phone or a tablet.  There is no new magical device being released.  It's either a phone or LTE tablet.  Good try.   
  • I laught so hard I fell out of my underwear at the headline.
  • I have been an Android user and I remember back when the Galaxy S5 was coming out, I was on the fence about switching to Windows, but ultimately made my decision to go with the more popular and better supported (app wise) device. Fast forward almost 4 years later and I have had it with Android, but I do not want to go with Apple. I am an Android user who has become tired of the hit or miss phones they have been releasing. I am tired of the bloatware with Samsung and not happy with the build and longevity of LG's phones. Apps are somewhat important to me, but at this stage I would really just like a better phone experience and I am a huge fan of Windows 10. I'm looking at getting a decent tablet with Windows 10 as I am also tired of the Android experience on tablets as well. I am ready to jump to a better user experience and overall better phone. Will that phone be a Windows 10 device? Geez I hope so. 
  • Why not the new htc.  It's probably the best performing and nicest looking phone for android right now.   
  • This is an interesting comment :) You may also like Huawei. Their hardware appear to be mixing the best of what is popular on all platforms.
  • Jason, I totally don't understand why folks get so hung up about Microsoft changing things every few years, why do they feel let down as opposed to feeling they have a chance to upgrade to the next form of technology. Did the first analog mobile phone users feel let down when digital mobiles came out, no they couldn't' wait to get hold of the latest technology. Then when feature phones were dropped for smartphone, did everybody feel let down? no, They couldn't wait to get hold of new technology again. There's more, did the first iPhone users get upset when Apple told them they could no longer get the latest OS and they would have to swap their phones for a new ones, No they just wanted the latest and happily swapped. The same with Android, almost every other version of Android only works on new phones so an upgrade is required to stay with the latest OS. Even with PC's you have to have a certain spec for an OS, if you didn't have enough memory, or suitable processor it mean an upgrade. This happens all the time as technology is replaced, it's called progress and I agree with you, Microsoft is not relying on Windows Phone fans (of which I am) It will bring a product to market on it's own merit. This new device will not be a phone, a phone only makes phone calls as far as I can remember! This new device category will never have been seen before, the one thing missing from all phone type devices is network support. Imagine coming home and having access to your home network and network attached storage devices for movies, photos, games, documents etc. etc. without having to startup your desktop or laptop and put your phone aside. One device that does it all and you can carry it around  in your pocket.  So Windows phone fans rather than call Microsoft names, support them in their next venture and be part of it, help shape the future of personal computing and forget the phone bit, it just makes calls, the rest of the OS and device is where the fun is going to come from. AR, VR, connected devices, home IOT devices all connected via the cloud to the small device in your pocket. Not even Start Trek has all in one devices :-) It will happen whether you support it or not, Imagine if Steve Jobs had worried about what people thought!  
  • Windows as a platform is unquestionably weaker moving forward without a viable presence on a mobile device in the form of a smartphone. Microsoft don't need to clear the decks of W10M they needed to work on it and release great hardware, while still working on the next best thing.
  • That's already done, and over with.
  • Sorry but in my opinion that is leaving reality and wandering right into wishful thinking on many levels. MS did not even manage to succeed with their fanbase behind them, because they their inconsistency was the only constant over the last 10 years fom MS in mobile. At this point no one wants a surface phone - except for the hand full of fans still out there hoping. Also no one is interested in MS mobile initiative. MS can release the ultimate phone enabled pc tomorrow but no one will care and that has several reasons. Firstly no one needs a phone enabled pc. Android and iOS manage to cover the mobile part of things - including productivity - excellent.
    Secondly people have been locked into eco-systems real good. that was one of the reasons Windows mobile hat such a hard time gaining ground.
    Thirdly ms has a horrible reputation in mobile. People will not even listen to any marketing blabber because they have been told MSis bad for mobile for years now (and frankly ms has made the point for the competition there itself rather thoroughly on multiple occasions).
    And finally - we have seen how little breath MS has for a long term strategy time and time again ... they will just fail miserably like the last 10 times and give up way before they get anywhere. So no, a Surface phone / ultramobile PC can not succeed - at this point not even with the fans and certainly even less without them.
  • i have a windows 10 phone (950XL at this point) i seldom make phone calls, maybe 1 or 2  a week? i just have little use for chatting,  i for one, welcome a more useable device, that religates  telephony to the background.  bring on the surface mobile, i am ready for it.....
  • Despite some people reading your article and thinking that informed opinions don't count as news worthy information, I think the article was well written and adds a different perspective. I've been the hopeful fan of Windows Phone/Mobile since its beginning. Over the last year or so, I've matured in my thought about where mobile is heading as a viable consumer product. Despite being hopeful, I couldn't ignore the trends and mindset of the consumer market. I'm not an iPhone or Android fan, but I do appreciate the devices for what they are and offer. If and when I I give up my 950Xl for a different phone and OS, it will likely be an Android. I've been eyeing the Galaxy S8, especially. It's a really nice phone and can be customized with an app to look like a Windows 10 Mobile device, if I really want it to. Obviously, it won't work exactly like a Windows Mobile device, but it will give the look. But, Android also offers some very cool ways to customize your phone, too. My point is, it is just a phone and if MS creates something that is amazingly good in the future, I and others can always switch back. As someone mentioned in the article, we aren't in a blood contract with our devices. We don't have to give up our soul, despite our preferences.
  • Of course. Microsoft is a business. Anything with a Surface name is a premium device not for consumers. If the device, still unspecified, is an ultra mobile PC then it's not a phone. If it's not a phone then then it's not an affordable consumer device bought as part of a contract from a mobile retailer that is in the pocket (or handbag) as a truly personal mobile device. An ultra mobile PC device is a business productivity device. Totally different. When the business user comes home the device goes in a bag and his/her personal mobile phone running Android or IOS is what they take out to communicate with friends and family. Just using the word "Surface" takes it out of the consumer space. This is entirely consistent with Microsoft's move from anything consumer to enterprise. The sole exception being Xbox. A productivity, cloud and enterprise model. Unusually Windowsphone brought in consumers to the Microsoft ecoystem. A series of mis-steps and deliberate neglect plus lack of vision has led here.  This device may well be mobile but it wont be anything the normal consumer is interested in.  Succeed is a funny word. The quarterly earnings show PC flat and cloud doing well. Microsoft can succeed without any presence in the mobile space. It just becomes a software and cloud services company. The "successful" Surface models are a small proportion of PC sales compared to Lenovo, HP and Dell. A "successful" ultra mobile ARM based Surface device could just be 1% of total sales. This would probably be the same total number of WIndowsphones sold in 2016.  Success for Microsoft in phone was judged against their Apple envy. The Windowsphone 7 was launched as the iPhone killer and failed miserably by that standard. An ultra mobile Surface device sold only to Enterprise occupying a tiny a fraction of the PC market selling far less than Windowsphone could be a "success" if a number of Enterprises used it as a sort of aspirational executive toy. Microsoft claim victory.  However the device most people reach for when they leave home is the mobile phone. If they are not making a phone then most people wont care and Windowsphone fans will eventually put their Lumias in a box with their Zune, Band and other abandonware. 
  • Stephen,  You've made a couple of assertions that are up for question.   However on the other hand overall I like your analysis, I think your hunting around the neighborhood of something like the truth.
  • Surface Brand Not For Consumers❓ 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
    This is new.
  • Now this is good - write an article and then go to comments section and write another article!
  • Now this is good - write an article and then go to comments section and write another article!
  • Windows phones are such a joke! You might as well write about how great the DC-3 airplane was!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • I feel that this article is a bit wrong, calling fans for smartphone fans. I dont care if its a smartphone or whatever kind of device it is, i want it to run Windows. And Im eagerly waiting for whats next in line cause my 950XL is getting a bit old xD And got one nice, clean and non-disturbing crack across the width of the device xD
  • hey everyone.
    this is my first reply. And English is not my native languish. But I have a opinion to share. Yes, I was one of the first to own a Ativ S en now a 950. But I'm mostly like all people a pragmatist. When doing business everyone know for every customer you lose you must make a double effort to gane one more. So this has nothing to do with us but purely business. This sad. Let's talk about the new windows divice. Why would be the market strategy to push the divice in a specific corner???? why not take the strategy of de multiple diversity of Surface divice???? It's the divice that has everything onboard. This machine can be you best friend, from the moment you need to wake up, when having breakfast reading the news that interested you, when need to order something online when going to work and yes, also your office divice. Your phone assistant and many other thing that makes each of us special to use this divice.  Alex  
  • Exactly... That's what this device would represent. Microsoft has to get the marketing right. Maybe not the first two generations, but by the third generation this device needs to be mainstream. It needs to appeal to average consumers.
  • Thank you for writing this. While I enjoy Windows 10 Mobile, I consider myself one of those that has an easier time with adopting new ways.
    Otherwise I should not be a Windows insider, right ;)? I hope this will ease the sense of "just a little longer now" other feel (as you demonstrated with the quote), and that it will make them feel less betrayed. Again, just adding my appreciation of your LONG TIME analysis work and sharing your thoughts with us =)
  • Here's the problem: whether MS says it's "Windows for mobile PC's" or "Windows phone" is largely immaterial. General audiences have learned not to buy Windows mobile devices because they don't get great support or apps. And since Nadella took over, he's taken it upon himself to teach a lesson to the fans and supporters of Microsoft's mobile efforts: don't bother, and in fact, go f*ck yourselves. Even if MS debuts an amazing Surface phone, I'm not buying, and I'll actively encourage my clients, my friends and my family to avoid it as well. Why? Because Microsoft has demonstrated to me and all other WP fans that it does not and will not support its own mobile platforms for the long term. Windows on mobile is dead, and Microsoft is solely responsible for that fact. Not Apple. Not Google. MICROSOFT.
  • Absolutely Not!
  • Hopefully, Microsoft will make available an affordable version of the Surface Phone either through Microsoft or the OEM's. 
  • what i can see from here .. microsoft try hard to increase Window 10 Marketshare become dominant on Dekstop segment. at this moment 2017 WIndow 7 still 40% and Window 10 still 20% . When Window 10 dominant in dekstop segment e.g  60%  its easy microsoft  make a move on mobile segment. and attract developers make apps on Window platform.  Google also dont have choice have to allowed Officiial apps such Chrome, Maps , utube on  window 10 platform. at this momment Chrome , Google Maps , Waze are not avaiable at WIndow Store to download . 
  • Affordable is out. Top of the line is in... You're not gonna get both.
  • I don't care at all. This is all my fault that i believed a company like MS.
  • Of course an ultramobile PC can succeed without us... Otherwise it would not be any good. As you said, starting next year ultramobile pc's will slowly start entering the market until, eventually, they become the only pc that 95% of individuals need. Regardless of our small number, I think that Microsoft knows that us, their fans and critics, are also the most vocal by far. For this reason, and the free beta testing we do for them, I think they would rather have us around.
  • Of course an ultramobile PC can succeed without us... Otherwise it would not be any good. As you said, starting next year ultramobile pc's will slowly start entering the market until, eventually, they become the only pc that 95% of individuals need. Regardless of our small number, I think that Microsoft knows that us, their fans and critics, are also the most vocal by far. For this reason, and the free beta testing we do for them, I think they would rather have us around.
  • " ultramobile PC ", isn't that just a high end laptop or tablet? I think that the surface phone is largely a fan creation. It will probably end up being a tablet by another name.
  • Yeah, but smaller. It will be 'pocketable'.
  • Maybe a simpler solution is bigger pockets.
  • Or tape. You could just duct tape the tablet to your hip. Or arm. Whatever works for you.
  • "Yeah, but smaller. It will be 'pocketable'. " You mean a phone?
  • exactly!
  • I see MS looking at corporate and SMB markets vs the retail users. It still will be a hard sell either way. I've switched to Android, but Surface Pro will always be my go to device. I do miss Windows Mobile though.
  • They failed hard at moving Surface into enterprise business. No imaging/distro/repair network, no reparability, worlds worst WiFi chip. They might be looking at Enterprise and SMB but they sure as heck are not executing there. Now everyone has a Surface Pro clone you buy that on your existing Dell/HP/Lenovo agreement. 
  • Surface is reference hardware. Microsoft isn't seriously trying to sell it to anyone. They just want to make sure OEMs don't get complacent again.
  • Ah yes, the excuse I love the most. It’s all an elaborate scheme to make that $20 on a windows license. Microsoft Designs, markets, supports, and pay rent for brick and mortar Microsoft stores just so the Surface line can exist as a big tech demo to keep Acer from making another plastic laptop.
  • They didn't "fail hard." The Surface products are expensive, working, reference designs. They are meant to create new categories for oems to create cheaper, better products, to mimic them. And they succeed, exceedingly, at that job.
  • If i recall correctly, HP partnered with MS on selling and supporting Surface Pros to their business customers. They have since come out with competing products, as MS wanted. The success of Surface Pro clones by Dell/HP/Lenovo is what MS wanted, and thus the success of the Surface line.
  • Absolutely right!  What many from the ranks windows phone fans appear to forget. Microsft is a SOFTWARE company first! It doesn't matter who builds the hardware. Microsoft wins!
  • Good read and ultimately very true. I'd have to say that I'm more interested in buying into this UMPC standard for what 'its software parts" has shown it is capable of more than simply supporting the product line. It offers more than the current phones can.
  • well indeed so, MS takes also huge chunks from the business side. like HoloLens a Surface phone can succeed there. just get the partners, devs and marketing right. and i hope they finally do the same for us loyal Windows mobile fans. i dont mind waiting with my lumia 950XL till a surface phone comes.. like Nike says, JUST DO IT.
  • Yeah the dream is still alive... They cant even get Surface into big business let alone "Surface Phone"
  • They don't need to. Surface is a concept. Microsoft expects it's partners (HP, Lenovo, Dell etc) to make inroads into big business and MS can then collect all that lovely Windows license fees. Surface shows PC makers what can be done. It's up to the mass market makers to produce a version that companies want to buy (and support). But this is the problem. By not putting customers first, Microsoft alienates decision makers in the consumer world which translates into the corporate world. Why are Apple so successful with mobile in the business world? They treat their consumers and their families well. That stuff translates.
  • Dreams and fantasies again. Probably just a 7" tablet with Skype and pen input, basically just a small PC. Such a device will only appeal to a niche market of workaholic professionals, everyone else will just continue to use their preferred handheld device, their smartphones.
  • I had Dell Venue Pro 8'' with pan for work and guess what? I bought iPad Mini and now I can do same but faster and better.
    Microsoft is failing again and again.
  • You can't quite do the same. There's no iPad Mini 'Pro' (with pencil). I have a Dell Venue 8 Pro, with pen, too, and it wasn't particularly good as far as that sort of device went. My Asus Note 8 was significantly better. Both these devices were first gen, and technology has gotten much better. I just got one of those cheap NuVision 8" tablets at MS online, and it is way better than either the Dell or Asus in many ways, and dirt cheap. The 10" NuVision, for $100, has an active stylus. I bet someone could build a killer little Windows Tablet that has active pen support for a decent price. Would beat the heck out of an iPad, as long as we don't fall in to the trap of wrapping Win32 apps with Centennial and calling it good. You have to build the app understanding it will be used on a tablet (or phone).
  • I had and Dell Venue Pro 8" and thought it was way underpowered for running a FULL OS. If they had built a more responsive 7-8" surface tablet that ran on ARM, i'd be very interested.  But not as my phone though.
  • theeefman, Yes, in the short to medium term you are right.  A "ultimate mobile device" is a niche item and until it does what most consumers expect from their smartphone, the smartphone is what they will carry.   If the "ultimate mobile device" from Microsoft had a vibrant UWP ecosystem, then it would in fact be a "killer device" having the ability to also be a desktop alternate/replacement. Without that vibrant ecosystem the "ultimate mobile device" will have a long slog towards "success".
  • Why write an entire blog and then post the first comment to tell what and why you just wrote a blog?
  • To set the tone of the conversation. It may also help with the inevitable TLDR folks (even though this is below 1500 words) who like to comment on the title or other peoples comments without actually reading the content. Hopefully, that opening comment will encourage them to go back to the article or at least give them a tiny tidbit of content so that their comments, if they still refuse to read, won't sound as off-base as "non-reader" comments often sound. Good question. :-)
  • If possible, you should consider locking your first comments on these articles so nobody can respond directly to it. Otherwise, we invariably end up with a ridiculously long comment thread on that first comment, instead of users commenting where contextually appropriate.
  • And who says that Windows phone fans are going to buy any more phones from Microsoft?
  • I think that's the point. 
  • It's not our support they need to concern themselves with.  It's the vitriol we will spew toward potential new customers of any device they come out with.  Having "true" W10 on it will do nothing ti help them.  I know more people that hate W10 than like it, and plenty of people are already entrenched in their Android and iPhone device's ecosystem.  If a true "Surface Phone" ever arrives, and anyone asks me to recommend it?  After what MS has done with Windows Mobile over the years?  Absolutely not.  People have enough reasons to hate me, I'm not going to give them another by recommending a constantly inconsistent mobile OS, that Microsoft will likely flip flop on in a few years anyway, when it fails again.  F Microsoft, I'm done with their phones.
  • I also wanted to add:  Carrier Sales Reps are more critical than anything regarding Microsoft's past failures!  Sales reps have seen Windows Mobile fail again and again (admittedly, partially their fault).  If they wouldn't recommend it to anyone before, why in the world would they do so in the future?  Most people are clueless when it comes to their phones.  They buy whatever ads and sales reps tell them to.  If a sales rep has caught a bunch of crap from an unhappy customer for selling someone a WM device in the past, they're not gonna want to take a bunch of crap over it again.
  • this isnt gng to be a phone primarily, so dont think MS would go through the traditional smartphones channel, imagine it being a surface pro, just smaller in size and with a cellular chip.
  • Hi zr2s10 we have to change our thinking here:-) Its not a phone, therefore it will not be sold as a phone. I've stated in this piece and others that it is a PC and will be positioned in the market as a PC. That means traditional smartphone channels (though carriers do sell tablets and historically netbooks) will not be the distributing backbone for this PC category. I tried to stress in this piece the role of OEM partners. They are critical to getting this category to the mainstream. Think about the breadth of distribution channels PC manufacturers have. Techiez answered correctly, it won't be wholly dependent on going through traditional smartphone channels though if a carrier wanted to distribute it, as they sometimes do other PCs, they can.
  • ^THIS!!!! As people research this new AMBROSIA DEVICE, they will look back and try and see what folks from the last iteration of the Massively Screwed-up dys-Functional Team's (MSFT) think of their mobile products.  And we are the folks who went through repeated "retrenchments".  The folks who would now flock to this new MYTICAL DEVICE have the attention span of a gnat.  If MSFT doesn't go all in and for the LONG TERM, they will forever have burned every bridge that they have or might have in the next decade.  This would be their Custer's Last Stand! And Jason, I've repeatedly asked you to provide a business case for Enterprise to support this initiative by the Massively Screwed-up dys-Functional Team!  Where is that?  It isn't a phone but it is pocketable.  Will the Enterprise want to take on all of the administration of the wireless contracts of these devices?  If they do, then where is the propogation into the CONSUMER MARKET?!?!  The consumer will say, "No apps!  No way!" The retrenchment has taken so long because the Massively Screwed-up dys-Functionial Team is trying to get LINUX and Apple OS developers in place so they can say, "We are releasing our products on Apple, iOS, LINUX and Android.  We will later announce that we will be developing a Windows 10 UWP (Useless Wrapper Product) in a couple of months that only runs on Windows 10 but none of our other platforms that we have unified in our One Platform Initiative."
  • I can tell you as someone who works in an enterprise business environment, my technical folks are eagerly awaiting the cellular PC. The contract management is bogus, as we have a corporate account.  eSIM technology will allow us to provision our own devices to our carrier contract.  Having true windows 10 means the devices means they can be domain joined and managed as a Windows device, including compliancy checks and the security lockdowns that come with it. If we can replace our desktops in call centers with screens and continuum docks, while running the call center software from a cloud hosted VM, we'd be laughing. Just waiting to hear something more than what we've already heard out of Computex this year.
  • Call it what you want but an ultramobile PC has to deal with the fact that it has to be handheld, work well without a keyboard, be sized so that you can hold it to your head for phone calls, etc. to be workable as a replacement for a phone. That doesn't leave a lot of options beyond current designs. It just can't be too big, or if it folds or rolls up, it has to be easily used to take a call. Face it, MS screwed the pooch on Windows Mobile.
  • They screwed several of them.
  • stop trying to make windows phone happen  it's not going to  happen 
  • Yip agreed. I was all in for Windows. Screwed me over twice, by the upgrades. Thankfully I switched and it wasn't a third time. And the other two phone OSs' are amazing in terms of experience. I do not understand how Windows phone is relevant right now
  • it will happend. Microsoft already realize and learn with name of brand Microsoft and NOKIA wont suceed at all. So best way is "Seeking Help" from this factor  a) Win 8 / win 7 user     b) OEM PC / Laptop    c) iOS & Android user.  d) Own product - Surface   its clearly  : Option (A) Microsoft release Free Upgrade for Window 7 and Window 8 user .  Option (B) NEW laptop and dekstop Preloaded with Window 10 Operating system. Some news said New Intel processor cant install old Win OS Option (C) matter of time. Option (D) Already done it . Microsoft Surface Pro , Surface Book , Surface laptop , Surface Studio -----> all Surface name at first place  
  • That is exactly what Microsoft is saying. You don't see anyone connected to Microsoft talking about phones. They do talk about connected devices and mobile devices. I agree with some of the author's comments but not all. I am not convinced MS is working on a pocketable device. I think we are looking at something in the 6.5 to 7 inch range. I also don't think we will see anything until at least 2019.
  • I think that one of the biggest problems here is not with Microsoft, it's the sense of entitlement that people have towards rolling updates. I brought my phone with the expectation that it would be more or less the same phone the day that it wears out as it was the day that I brought it, and I don't feel abandoned at all. I expected basic security upgrades and patches to fix bugs, but that's about it. I'm pretty happy with the level of service that I have recieved. All that I really care about is that Microsoft doesn't remotely brick my handset when support for Windows 10 finally stops. I'd be happy to use my phone in its current state for the next few years, by which time I'll simply buy whatever the most appropriate new handset is. The people who are complaining the loudest seem to think that Microsoft has some kind of duty to continuelly add new features every few months. They feel abandoned if Microsoft doesn't constantly engage them. Does anybody remember the days when your phone lasted 2-3 years and the only way to get an upgrade to the OS was essentially to buy the next model, you didn't even used to get bug fixes or patches until relitively recently when 3G connections became prevelant enough to do over the air updates.
  • First, phone owners have that sense of entitlement with every device, regardless of OS, right or wrong. Second, that is not the issue with Windows Mobile.  The issue is that W10M is not on par with iOS or Android when it comes to features, to begin with.  Apps are one thing, and a big part.  But MS doesn't even support their own apps as well as they do for the iOS/Android versions.  Why should they expect 3rd party devs to do any better?  And you can't even rely on Edge to get you through the app gap.  FAR too many times, Edge either fails to load pages, or is incompatable with the page (if one is available), and doesn't have all the features than an app might (AR on Home Depot app, for example).  It has come a long way, but still not enough. Cortana is great, and I wish I could get it to do everything I need on my old Galaxy S5A.  Maybe a newer phone would be better.  I will give them Cortana, AND that the actual call and bluetooth features are incredibly reliable on my L950 compared to my S5A.  It's the only reason I haven't sold it.  And, nobody's buying those anyway...  
  • Microsoft supports their own apps . I get weekly update .
  • As a consumer you sell yourself short. For me, it's not about the constant updates, it's about the OS "useability". In terms of MS OS, I bought a phone with WM7 only to be screwed over 6 months later of WP8. While with the upgrade of WM10, rendered all WP8 phones useless. These dumb restart of OS does annoy me as they are not supported by new apps. Now let's take iOS for example, most  (if not all) apps in store requires at least iOS 9, with others even earlier.   An iPhone 4 can run that, but let's take a decent one which is the iPhone 5c. This was made in 2013, meaning that if you have a iPhone, which was made in 2013 you would still be able to most of the apps in the store. Can that be said about MS? when WM10 was announced WP8 store just went downhill. My phone became obsolete. With Andriod and iOS you don't get this. I like to use a phone for more than two years and that doesn't make me entitled.   unless you are paid by MS, or are employed by them, I would understand your feeling. But you sell yourself short if you are not. Don't be loyal to MS, they just a money making company. Just like apple. Just like google.
  • During Window phone 7 / Window Phone 8 .. microsoft really tooo confident with acquisiton of Nokia everything become smooth. but the fact is.  its still failed.  When drop Nokia name on Phone label and replace with Microsoft name also still failed.  Microsoft very lucky Whatsapp fall to facebook hand. if falling to wrong hand (google) .. Microsoft will die like Nokia 
  • I think you guys are all missing the real crux of the issue that Windows Phone fans have. In my opinion, the frustration that fans here voice has nothing to do with the platform, devices, features, or updates. We all rolled with it when they did their reboots because we were still engaged and excited to use the platform, because Microsoft maintained relevance to us. The real crux of the matter is the lack of communication and commitment from Microsoft. We are all left questioning everything that they do. With nobody in a position of authority to respond to our questions, we give ourselves all of the wildest answers that set us up for disappointment. With the company not demonstrating any commitment to the consumer side of the business, we assume that they are not committed. I and many other fans don't feel "entitled" to receive products and updates from Microsoft. I'm honestly willing to keep spending and re-investing in it as long as I see commitment on their end. And I don't see that. I see complete apathy. Microsoft alone is to blame for the amount of churn they are experiencing and will continue to experience in the consumer market.
  • Nah, poor effort from Microsoft. Wasted our money n time.
  • Hang on a sec. I just bought a Surface Pro 4. Are you saying Microsoft are going to bring out a device that means I don't need this anymore? /s
  • In many use cases, yes.  That is the intent.  You won't be able to run developer tools on a cellular PC, but you will be able to accomplish what 80% of the consumer market uses their pc/phone for today.  Calls, SMS, social, and general internet connectivity.
  • Have Continuum. can use work as dekstop experience.
  • he won't be able to do that because on a pocket device you need APPS designed for a pocket device, and the Store is severely lacking those.
  • Amazing how you can write about a 1000 articles about the same blablabla. I don't even bother to read it anymore.
  • Then how do you know it's the same?
  • That's a great question BoneUK. :-)
  • Reusing the pictures even :)
  • You shouldn't bother replying too.
  • They want your clicks and replies, and succeeded ;-)
  • Hi LexaSap: Short of omniscience I'm not sure how you can claim the content is the same having confessed to not reading the content. I encourage you to check it out. Perhaps there's something there that you haven't read in past articles. ;-)
  • I read the title and that already gives an idea and during the first paragraph it's once again clear where it's headed and then I stop to read. I have the same feeling as BonzeUK; they just want our clicks and replies. Articles are written more and more in this style too. It's even written to trigger (angry) reactions. In the past I even placed several mailing next to each other since they are similar too. The last months it's getting better, but I have received several mailings containing the same stories. My feeling is: if there is nothing new to tell, then don't. But everytime the same content in slighty different story doesn't do it for me. The overall information from this site is good and interesting so I don't want to quit keeping an eye on this, but it does bother me that this story has been written over and over again and if you read the reactions... well that could have been copy paste too.
  • Of course the title gives an "idea" thats what titles do. :-) What they don't do is convey the content. :-) Now, as the author I can assure my motivations for writing go beyond just getting clicks. I began writing about tech on my own blog, for FREE, and did so passionately with FAAAAAAAAAAAR less traffic than WC gets. But I did it because I like to communicate ideas, thoughts and analysis. Now, sure some of the content in this is what you may find in other pieces (for context, backgrond and the thousands who visit the site for the first time having not read previous articles), but I have never written from the angle focusing on why Microsoft doesn't need fans in order for Surface "phone" to succeed. Having dedicated your time to place and read comments, hey, you might as well go all in and read the content. :-) Think about it. If all I wanted was you "click" I already got that. No need to waste my time on this discussion. I've got another article to write! :-) Whatever, you decide to do, thanks for visiting the site.
  • Hello Jason, I agree with Lexasap and other critics. I find your copy lacks brevity and detail but is increasingly self-centred. A huge shame as Windows Central is ace, mostly. Surely a good journalist would act on others' feedback?
  • I stand with Jason.  He is able to see and infer from the outside, possible strategies evolving within Redmond. I would even go so far to say, that Jason will be seen as a grand prognositicator once the vision is revealed. Just because Jason takes a different approach to covering the declining Windows Mobile market doesn't mean he needs to be derided for seeing something you can't. Keep going Mr. Ward.  I eagerly await your next theory on how this will unfold.  You seem closer to the mark than any other jounralist I've come across on the internet.
  • I like reading Jason's bits. I absolute REFUSE to read that idiot Michael Allison's garbage over at MSPowerUser.
  • Oh man that Michael Allison is depressing. It's like his girlfriend just broke up with him and he hates the world. He writes short articles that gives a monotone of facts then adds in reminders of how bad he thinks everything Microsoft does is. He's gotten so bad I'm starting to think he's taking payment from Google or something. The guy just sounds like he hates life. Very depressed. I don't know why they keep him. He brings down the whole site.
  • It's hard to argue with the numbers. Success in this business means big numbers and as far as Windows Phone is concerned, the are no numbers there. Disgruntled Windows Phone fans can be pretty loud, though. And Microsoft's track record with mobile, pocketable devices is obviously not good recently. Whatever the "Surface Phone" is will likely be compared to a phone and to its predecessors, i.e. Windows Phone. At that point consumers will need to decide if the chorus of digruntled Windows Phone fans and their history with Microsoft devices speaks louder than the appeal of whatever new device Microsoft offers.
  • I understand all of this, but I think that it's still a big mistake by Microsoft to alienate their fans, few or many as they might be. It's a gross contradiction on things they are doing, because on the other hand, there's Insiders, which is basically fans working for them for free, and for that they do need us. My point is that it can never be good to drive away true fans, not only they are probably losing customers (and evangelists!) but also, how can they convert people who are against their products if they are making people who loved them hate them? It wouldn't be that hard either to avoid the fan hate. It would take communication, giving some hope, and not turning every opportunity of rewarding them into a backstabbing. Personally I will stay in the ecosystem, but I don't like how they're making decisions aimed at both the long term and to win over haters, instead of at least respecting and nurturing a culture of fan loyalty and honest communication. Guys, if you do this, you won't have fans when/if you finally release your next thing. Think about it, who's gonna buy it first? Who's gonna take a chance at Microsoft? iPhone/Android fans? Not a chance, they're happy in their ecosystem. Former W10M fans, which have been hurt, used and discarded? All is left is people who are neutral but are informed about the ambient bad vibe MS gives. And without fans left, you can't even leverage word of mouth. Think about it.
  • Because Microsoft produces completely incompatible changes that require practical rewrites of apps, etc. This is common for them on the desktop, but mobile is dominated by undies that don't want to rewrite their apps every 1-2 years. I People have been complaining about this for a decade in the desktop: MFC/VB > .Net/WinForms > XAML/WPF > Metro > UWP. Every couple of years, Microsoft reinvents the wheel and tells developers that they have created the best thing ever. People are getting tired of this, and it manifests itself in the App ecosystem. Because Mobile lacks the backward compatibility of desktop platforms, it really hurts their mobile efforts. You aren't tired of literally wasting money on their experiments? Developers develop apps and then they become useless, while iOS and Android have literally never done this - ever. You'd have to have 5+ year old apps to have them not run on an iPhone. Both developer and consumer investments are protected much more on those platforms. At this point, UWP/Windows Mobile is dead to me because I cannot risk dumping money into another burning platform. I do not trust Microsoft. They haven't had a stable development platform on mobile, ever. And even their Desktop Windows development platforms have been in constant flux, with pretty terrible support. Doo now we're at a point where developers are porting apps from MacOS to Windows, and not the other way around. Amazing... And most are completely ignoring UWP. UWP was nothing but a truck to get people t target mobile. Developers aren't buying it. Microsoft is too volatile and they can't afford to have their time wasted on a third, distant minority platform. People are missed because it's all Microsoft does. They run through development platforms and platform APIs more than Google performs spring cleaning. When is enough ever going to be enough for some of you people?
  • Anyone that's been around long enough, through the multiple reboots of their mobile strategy already know how Microsoft views and values it's consumers. I'm not a hardcore Microsoft fan like some but I have enjoyed Windows mobile/Windows Phone /W10m over the past 7 years or so on 8 or 9 different Lumia phones, have a Surface Pro 2, had Windows on all my PC's/laptop's and had every Xbox since launch. I'd say I'm fairly loyal in that I've wanted the OS to succeed and liked that it was a bit different and an underdog. I don't feel Microsoft owes me anything in particular and that they should reward me for sticking by them while they messed around and practically flushed a good/potentially great mobile platform down the toilet. I do feel they couldn't care less about the loyalty people have shown them over those years and think that'll never change. They think they're so highly regarded that no matter how many times they reboot or retrench, people will simply buy into their products and they'll be successful.
  • Pretty much my sentiment exactly.... If they pull off a truly stunning 3-in-1 foldable, I might go for it, but right now I've lost faith in their will and capacity to produce anything worthwhile in the mobile section; too many squandered opportunities...!
  • 😄😄😄
  • Didn't Joe Belfiore just confirm that WoA isn't coming to phones? Doesn't that kill UMP?
  • Current Windows phones, it needs the SD835 or higher and no current Windows phone has that
  • I am quite sure he said it wasn't going to be on a phone form factor at all. He said they have W10M for phone experiences.
  • It was never alive in the first place.
  • Windows on Arm was never supposed to come to phones, Ms is developing it for Arm SOCs to be used on regular PCs, now these PCs can have telephony capabbilities but a phone OS is still different, a device which is primarily a phone will always be different from an PC which can make calls.
  • Windows on arm is for hololens
  • They talk cryptically about mobile devices all the time.  They love dragging about the lemmings.
  • Stop it already. The Surface Phone will not happen. And even if Microsoft tries to release mobile hardware again, it will fail the same way. They kicked themselves out of the mobile arena and thus wasted the whole mobile decade. The critical mass of developers for their mobile ecosystem is gone. UWP never caught up, neither did Microsoft really embraced it - yet. The app gap never filled and, in fact, just continues to widen. Also, there is not a single chance that a new mobile device that would allow to run 20th century applications would have any appeal to consumers. Until the new digital lifestyle gadget era begins, which will likely be the AR one, Microsoft will remain absent from the battlefield and from the consumers' mind. And looking forward, their weak mobile ecosystem may even affect their chances to succeed in the AR era. Microsoft wasted the mobile era. End of discussion.
  • That's pretty much the same prediction I'd make.
  • Thats the same prediction I made as soon as they announced they were not bringing denim phones forward.   Annnnnnnndddddd Who was right for 1000 Alex?   I was!  w10m has been a complete failure.  It was started with that point because MS Lost alot of loyal fans / users who took the same crap from win7 to win8.  I was not doing it again.  I did buy a 950xl for a 3d scanner but it is not set up on any MS account etc.  Just using it as a scanner and thats it.  My iphone kills the windows phone in every area except camera....but that trade off is well worth the rest of what the iphone does that windows mobile cannot.
  • "The Surface Phone will not happen"...."and even if it did.....fail the same way", you should go ahead and cover more bases......you know, so you can be "right".
  • Fair.
    Replace "The Surface Phone WILL not happen" by "The Surface Phone SHOULD not happen".
    You end-up with a single prediction with the same outcome.
  • No, it'll be a new Surface form factor. I only hope they don't name it "Surface Pocket PC"
  • Yes...a tablet.   the surface form factor...what else would you think it could be it's either a tablet or a phone.....One or the other,  not a new magical deivce....it's a phone or tablet.  
  • Did you figure that out all by yourself Steve?
  • obviously you never!
  • Agree.
  • Ohh, I always enjoy reading a good fairytale.
  • I hope i inspired this article! A few people here need to realize their place.
  • I hope i inspired this article! A few people here need to realize their place.
  • LIKE?
  • People who hold Microsoft back with the guise of being an enthusiast and reject modern computing ideas, implementations, and intent.
    For example, w8.1 criticizers, people asking for online status on a modern messaging platform like the new Skype experience, etc.
  • I think people are NOT holding microsoft back, other than the people in charge of microsoft....thats it.   They should be put in their place!
  • Wow Jason, as I type this on my 950XL Dual SIM sitting in a hotel room in Papua New Guinea you have just described my loyalty to Windows Phones EXACTLY!  Am I proud to be the only person in PNG using a Windows phone? Not really. For years I have laughed off the lack of apps, I thought UWP was going to be the silver bullet but I was wrong and my journey that started with an HTC HD2 is now over. As some who has had a car/mobile phone since Voda launched in 1985 it has always been a business rather than fashion accessory and for the last 8 years it has been about BPOS/Office 365. When Microsoft stopped releasing apps for Windows Phone but Apple/Android got them I new I had to change. For me it has been about the OS, I don't care how much my phone weighs, how big the screen is or the number of NITS, or how long the battery lasts watching a video. When I look at an iPhone 1 versus an iPhone 7 and the only difference is an extra row of Win95 icons I smile at how long Apple have managed to go with the same magnificent one trick pony. So where now for me SatNad? An over priced iPhone (about to get wireless charging and a 3D camera progress or copycat Apple?), or an insecure Android device? Thanks for forcing me back to a Windows 95 experience Microsoft 😞 And from a Band2 to a FitBit. And from an SP3 to an HP X2. Microsoft don't do hardware any more except for the consumer Xbox. Thank heavens my career is based on Azure/Office 365 services!  
  • No sign of surface phone and Microsoft not looking at mobiles, how about surface mini 6- 7" device and surface nano 5-6" device, not a phone just a mini pc, not technically a
    In the phone market just phone size lol
  • How about a Surface Pico? 1.8 inch screen with no buttons or method of input. It just makes a loud alarm sound all the time & you can never shut it off. Bonus: it gives you dysentery.
  • I think the problem is that even with the Surface Phone being a new category of device, just being able to run Windows 10/Win32 Apps is not enough specially when it comes to getting the attention of the people that they want on their ecosystem and to that end I would say that the Xbox Phone is the way to go. Heck before I saw this article I saw a headline talking about Razer needing more money to build the phone for gamers, and that alone tells me that Microsoft and Razer should cooperate on this.
  • Agree mini pc isn't enough, need apps in the store
  • I don't need MS for "ME" to succeed either, and that's why we are surely but slowly seeing them fade off into the distance in my realm. And to say they don't need "us" is 100% not true, "us" is any human which in the end, is that someone who choses to use MSFT's services/hardware. Take away the human factor and tell me exactly where they'd be?
  • Next Friday a rehash of a Windows on ARM article dreaming about the performance so good they refuse to post any numbers or benchmarks on... Yeah that’s what the phone not a phone mystery device will hinge it's relevance on.
  • It sounds to me as if an ultramobile PC, assuming it delivers what you have intimated, Jason, is a device worth waiting for. Until then, my 950XL will hopefully keep me going. Late 2017 would be ideal, or early 2018. But ultimately we have no real idea if/when/what. As for Insiders, I don't see them as totally discarded. I would reckon that the majority, if not all, WM Insiders are also Win10 Insiders, so I'm sure that will continue unless MS turn off the Insider program. I don't see that happening any time soon.
  • Microsoft just confirmed that phone isn't going to be a form factor for WoA. Ultra Mobile PCs are not coming.
  • Unfortunately this will not stop weekly articles like this or the deluge of comments that follow.
  • I won't call this article the "harsh truth". I'd call it an interpretation of the bread crumbs / hints that MS upper echelon has been dropping for a while now. Like some state, a 950, HP, etc series of phones are decent phones and they continue to get improvements / updates. The next phase will arrive one day and some will then say / acknowledge that there has been a lot of wasted air/keystrokes in the past going over and over this subject.
  • It's been firmly established that Microsoft is definitely working on the next ultimate mobile mobility device of ultimate ultimateness that will of course be powered by unicorn blood and have built in sat phone and teleportation capabilities. Engineers are hard at work enabling not just a wash & dry mechanism, but also the ability to fold clothing as well. This device will obviously make use of arm cshell hololens AR MR VR AC/DC microwave oven self driving car technologies. No one questions that this is what Microsoft has been working on for years and was the goal of their mobile strategy for the past several decades.
  • Yes, but when in India?!
  • Coming Soon™
  • It is hard to agree. People first "buy" people being a face of the company. Then they "buy" a company, the ideas and values they represent and products are at the end.  New Windows phone will not be a an impulse buy product. Will be an expensive, well thought investment    People will think long if they want to give their money to Microsoft.  Todays enterprises needs to attract young people and one of the remuneration part are usually tech tools like  phone. Young people, disappointed with Microsoft disloyalty and lack of commitment to own products and own community will not go for Windows mobile again. 
  • **** that i'm going apple next. MS has 2 more years to show me if they are any good
  • The much talked about (and, unfortunately, very real) app gap is simply to big at this point in time, to let one be optimistic about the concept of a MS ultramobile PC that can also make phone calls. As others have pointed out, without substantial developer support, any new concept is doomed from the start. I think it is rather more likely that MS will eventually turn into something like IBM today: Very profitable, but also rather irrelevant in the consumer space.
  • This is pretty much an obvious article.  Because a "mobile device" can be a phone, but is not exclusively so.  I find it laughable, though, for anyone to even pretend they are completely interchangeable.  There are simply form factors that work AS a phone with PC capabilities and ones that do NOT.  And, yes, I do see stupid people walking around with 6 inch+ sized "phones" talking on speaker BECAUSE THE IDIOTIC DEVICES ARE TOO BIG TO ACTUALLY BE USED AS A PHONE.  If that is what Microsoft is talking about, then, yes, they will succeed (though likely not) without people like me.  Having a device small enough to actually comfortable hold up to my ear and use AS a phone and easily slip unobviously in a pocket is what I will carry.  The Continuum feature is what makes the expanded potential capability of the device attractive.  But you can tack telephony onto any device and call it "mobile".  So, I've said this before, once Windows-based phones are gone, I'll just go back to a simple feature phone that has tethering capability.  That way I can actually CARRY a device that can function PROPERLY as a phone and, as needed, slave my Surface Pro to it to get computing functionality.
  • Spot on. The mythical surface phone was never meant to compete as a phone with rest of iphones and droids, infact some tech writers even suggested that it shd be called surface mobile and not a phone, but most ppl assume it to be an iphone killer, which it isnt going to be.
  • Check out the CShell preview from Zac Bowden here https://youtu.be/YNxtMtlrm6U Snapdragon based device running Windows 10 can be as small as a phone and as powerfull as a PC, with good battery life, that is the whole point.
  • The key word in all of this is "CAN".....it won't however....
  • I think this is hella sad. I have been riding with windows mobile since the pocketpc and  the tmobile dash. I prefer the platform. I use an iPhone for business use but even with the advent of cloud based office  apps I STILL prefer my windows phones from the dash to the HTC phones to the Lumia. I was and still am looking forward to the SurfacePhone. I wish Microsoft would do more to promote the device security and other cool integration features that give the a leg up on Android. I also love my Microsoft Band 2..another casualty of this strategy i guess. Do better Redmond!
  • I still don't get the butt hurt "fans" are supposedly feeling. I've been in the ecosystem since I had a Jornada 525 back in the day. Each device I have had has given me a good two-year run (normal for mobile, IMO) and each next iteration has been a significant leap forward. I prefer the sometimes awkward and lunging leaps ahead that I have experienced in WM->WP7->WP8->W10M->? to the incremental (IMO opinion, overvalued) changes of my wife's iPhone cycle. The programs I had on WP7 still work on my W10M and the UWP I have on W10M will still run on the next iteration. I'm quite happy to use my 950 till the next evolution comes out and have no problems with that.
  • That's the problem, imo you are in the minority which make a whole lot of difference... And this room would pretty much be silent if that weren't the case.
  • Loving windows Phone, if was Microsoft ceo would have kept Lumia flagship phone on, giving it new look and use the apps we have build amazing features around them and just keep the phone in low key and focusing on bringing developers to develop apps for free.. Anyway I think windows Phone was cool I love it. It's not boring cause we can have 10 Windows phone and each one will look amazing different from others.. You can have 10 android but you will find 7 looks the same on screen lol bland and boring till you have animated wallpaper lol.. While windows Phone give life on live tiles
  • Im happy with my lumia 950xl please deploy android 7.1 to it and i would ve a happy camper
  • If there is a "Surface Phone", it will be a business device. Its not for you and me consumers. MS is a business tech company now with a small sector still around for gaming. 
  • So how do you have a gangbusters success with business when your track record is failing spectacularly four times in a row on the consumer product. If an automotive company made four terrible sedans in a row would you trust them to build a tractor trailer or a limo?
  • Maybe.   But I would not trust them to build another sedan.  
  • If an automotive company made four sedans that I really liked and had high safety and reliability ratings, but just didnt sell well, yeah, I would consider buying anything from that company. 
  • Of course....but the 4 version of the microsoft "sedan" started,  looked great...then broke down after 2 months of ownership causing the owners to purchase a new sedan with no way to upgrade the sedan they already had rendering them useless paperweights.   I think its silly to even consider another purchase of a mobile deivce from microsoft.  NO THANKS.   
  • Ok. I am quiting Windows Phone
  • I have Quit Microsoft Phone W10M Had Enough 
  • Ultramobile PC is
  • Ultra mobile pc with telephony if comes to life won't be less than 7-8 inches, not ideal as a cell phone.
  • I would drop Android if this phone is real.
  • You will not be dropping Android then.
  • MS is out of touch with the average consumer, especially in the mobile realm. they do not respect, nor appreciate their fans, and that's reflected in their efforts. MS lost me a fan. I use windows for my rig, but other than that, they really soured many user's experience supporting them.
  • I see no reason to keep discussing Windows Mobile 10 (and phones), when cellular PCs are just around the corner. You did learn about the partnership between Microsoft and Qualcomm and saw the first demonstrations of Windows 10 on ARM, right ? The fan base will forget "Windows Phone" and move on to a Surface device when their Mobile 10 device is EOL.
  • Not a chance.
  • that will never happen. Users are not that dumb to trust MS again in another destined to fail experiment.
  • You give the Microsoft fangirl way to much credit there MMGN.   They will suck the corporate teet to no end!
  • Yes u may be correct in one way. But the "if" succeeds you have mentioned grabs a lot of attention. The app gap is and will always remain the killer of Microsofts mobile OS. Today every grocer out in town has their android and ios apps. And people use them. Will Microsoft ever succeed in a new handheld device efforts without an answer to this app gap.UWP apps are progressing but hasn't shown any sign of rescue.apples success is notable with only a single oem device running ios. Androids are in every mans hand. Then how will a new device category succeed without miracle
  • You said it correctly.   Every store etc has an app.   Those apps are more useful than their websites in most cases.    Apps are REQUIRED for mobile.  If no apps.  No success.   As we saw first hand with w10m 
  • I'm absolutely sure that MS don't need us die-hard loyalists. And I'm sure MS' future would look very bleak if they did. I remember the old phones with a dial and a cord from when I was a kid and I'm (almost) surprised that the concept of a phone with an associated phone number still exists with so many communication alternatives to choose from these days. I'm looking very much forward to the next mobile personal device that may or may not replace the smartphone. I hope it wouldn't disappoint me. And I hope my Windows 10 phone will last until it arrives. I don't take it personal that MS is killing their phone. Or that they killed the Band for that matter. It is a shame, though. Actually I do take it a bit personal. Shame on you Microsoft ;-)
  • All this tells me is MS left us consumers out. No bigs, already fleeing to a more consumer friendly product line.
  • We don't need Microsoft to succeed either!
  • LOL...You tell'em netmann! Say it loud and say it proud! :-)
  • For me, it fits in my pocket, great, i can make calls great, i can use the web, great, it will still be a phone. It will never be my pc. My pc is what i build and sits at home and does the heavier tasks for me. If the new pocket pc can replace that then good for people who utilize it. But i won't. There's only a hand full of things i do on my phone now anyways. Not because it's not a pocket pc but because it's purpose for me doesn't extend beyond those functions and again never will by my choice. A phone and a tablet are for light duty and a pc is for everything else. Besides its not like they will fit a current high end graphics card in there new little things. No not just for gaming.
  • If that's true, its honestly a relief. There aren't many of us left anymore (not compared to before). To hear that we won't be needed for it to succeed is actually encouraging imo
  • Oxford Dictionary; fan; late 19th century (originally US): abbreviation of fanatic. Same authority; fanatic; A person filled with excessive and single-minded zeal, especially for an extreme religious or political cause.
  • Well,......we really didin't help it much in the first place. We can only do so much anyway. If MS keeps making stupid mistakes then it's on them. I hope it succeeds without the need of fans. It's a lot of work pushing a brand of phone/whatever. I just want to sit back and relax and let it support itself becuase it has useful, desired features than me having to get up and go tell the world how good it is.
  • Without developers there are no apps. Without apps there are no customers. Without customers there are no products. If developers have feeling that there are no customers than there are no apps. Microsoft entered into this blind circle when WP7 and WP8 was killed as many other great projects. Now it looks bad with W10M (again). If MS wants succeed with us MS must ensure us there is going to be some future and will last. If MS doesn't need us MS already did it and we don't need to care about. Whatever they call the new mobile device, if any is going ever to exist, as a developer I must trust in it's future as well as a customer.
  • Jason, Companies that use their fans do not deserve the respect of consumers.
    Microsoft thinks that 1% of fans are disposable but these are the customers who knows the most about their flaws and weaknesses. If this fans betrayed they probably do a great damage in the image of the company, so it is good that Nadella does not treat us like idiots because it will not leave for free.
  • They'll soon know the precious factor of loyalty we shown untill.. I suppose Surface Phone would be a tremendous disaster.
  • worse move is Microsoft stop selling their phones in many markets that were doing well share wise, my 950 XL still serves me will and will continue to until i switch to the next new Windows Mobile Device from Microsoft.
  • MS killed Nokia ... MS killed itself ,so logically it deserves ..
    Guys .! to be honest nd fair , Apple's Customer Base is Far Far superior than MS..
    Even an iPhone 5s is eligible to the latest ios 11.
    Not my intention to promote Apple here btw.But, My first disappointment was when Nokia Abandoned Symbian, Second the sale of Nokia Mobile Division to MS & now for the reason where we dont hear Nokia/Windows Phone/Lumia..
    Wanna quit to be Windows Phone fan..
  • Surface phone, ultramobile PC, whatever.  Without a decent app store offering, the hardware is essentially irrelevant.  Win 10 on ARM?  Win32 apps?  UWP apps?  Too little, too late, IMO.  You won't get legions of Android and/or iOS developers to come to the platform.  That ship has sailed.  To me, the only way around this is to provide a bridge or bridges that will PAINLESSLY port existing and new iOS or Android apps to the platform.  Project Astoria is dead.  Islandwood as currently constituted is feeble and won't even support apps written in Swift.  Xamarin is conceptually great, but do you really think Android/iOS developers will come to it?  I seriously doubt it.  Sadly, I've moved on to Android, in spite of my love for Windows Phone and Win10Mo. 
  • Jason, The Massively Screwed-up dys-Functional Team (MSFT) is taking a "build it and they will come" philosophy.  It can be debated that this happened with the iPhone and Apple was probably in the same position as MSFT can potentially be in now and Apple did strike lightening.  That happens so rarely!  Look at how many amazing and better products were developed and were never successful. Please write a blog about the business case for this pocketable non-phone MYTICAL DEVICE!  What is going to pull the ENTERPRISE to this device?  Is someone predicting that most of the enterprise needs to update their hardware.  PC refresh cycles seem to be getting longer, not shorter.  How about this?  Is the ENTERPRISE chomping at the bit to move from a BYOD philosophy to now being responsible for telephony/data plans?  Is this stated somewhere?  Do they believe that standing up a whole new division/directorate to deal with phone plans will save them more money than just re-imburseing folks for their plans? Has the ENTERPRISE considered the risk of employee alienation due to having to now carry around their own personal communication device and the MYTICAL UNICORN DEVICE.  Since it is pocketable, employees are now also going to have to carry around a laptop's worth of peripherals so they can do their normal work.  That is a lot of shiz to carry around. And we haven't even talked about transitioning to the consumer because that is where the real numbers come in. The only business case I can come up with is that MSFT is in cahoots with the U.S. Government and they are going to drop the MYTICAL UNICORN DEVICE when the U.S. Government announces "No more laptops on planes."  Then MSFT has a business case for everyone to own one device.  And it won't be because they were somehow omnicient about what was going to happen but then they would be just like Apple and be in the right place at the right time (and had probably greased the palms of many politicians).
  • MS hasn't given a rat's a$$ about our support for years now.
  • When they will update ADVANCE INFO, OR EXTRA AND INFO APP
  • We want VOLTE ON LUMIA 950 XL
  • I don't feel mistreated in the least. Despite my "hopes" for the future, Microsoft has always been clear. And they are maintaining a reasonable amount of support and updates to my Lumia 1520. Just saying...
  • Great article, Jason. The hard truth but spot on. I, for one, cannot wait to see how the Microsoft story pans out, especially with mobile computing/telephony. They seem to have nailed their business forecasts and even exceeded it. The market/shareholders must like what they are seeing. I especially like the cloud ecosystem they are building which clearly is having a massive impact on the enterprise segment. The solidity of this platform, the experiences derived from this can only translate into a viable platform for the consumer. Businesses are notoriously conservative on expenditure on new technology so for them to be early adopters, helping Microsoft to post impressive figures, the company must be on the right track. Rock on MSFT.
  • Microsoft Go To Donkeys As.s Now nobody cares for you
  • Kind of obvious was it not? How could anyone possibly think otherwise? 
    We are talki g about a tiny tiny fraction of the entire market here. 20% of 2% pfff. more like 5% of 2%  They never coud make a difference. They were not even enough at the highest stretch to form a critical mass.  
  • Are we WP nuts (me!) crucial to the ultimate success of what ever follows in the footsteps of my 950XL.  Nah.  But we may be crucial to the initial and developmental success of the follow-on concept.  Why? Our experience with WinCE, WM, WP etc over the years in a zillion places and business/home/entertainment environments has shown us what works and what doesn't and under what circumstsances.   MSFT may want to consider listening to us - kinda like they do with the Insider programs.  Dona Sarkar and her team may be the only folks on earth with three ears, all of them working furiously.  So what's my take on the WP/950 follow-on?  Like the cloud: business first.  So, a mostly pocketable PC (foldable is a possibility) with an Core i7, automatic VPN over WiFi, LTE and/or Iridium/Satellite,   Secure as hell, but with most documents, APPs and services OneDrive based. I need to have a small system that I can drag out into the hinterlands and take a reasonably good picture of the cliff side of a valley and drag a bridge girder overlay onto the picture and be able to let engineers "at the office" calculate down to the zillionth of an inch with a "projectable GPS to the camera lens focus or the Surface pen point" where the girders will attach to the cliff walls. When the engineer gets back to the hotel she needs to have some ability to catch up with social media, play a few games and watch a flic.  I can see a "mobile" PC like that which is normally in your pocket at 3x6, then fold-outable to 6x6.  And the 6x6 can connect to an HDTV natively or another 6x6 to give you a watchable presentation or writable 12x12 using a BT KB.  You can speculate from here in a thousand different scenarios.  But we can, using our experiences, be helpful in developing and initially supporting such a device.  
  • I Jason, normally I agree with your direction, but based on JB's comments in that broadcast that the ARM PC is not part of Microsoft's mobile future vision, I think they will not be doing what you suggest.  Sure, new ARM tablets will have cellular connectivity, but they won't be a phone.  I think they've shown their direction which is to make their services (Office, Cortana etc) available on any and every platform and at this time, make that the sole mobile strategy. There may be one other direction in progress too: Universal UWP.  The goal being to get developers to write UWP apps to run everywhere:  Windows, XBox and iOS and Android.  They are, after all, a software company and this would ultimately benefit Windows.  Time will tell anyway.
  • So, we began with the telephone, followed by the cell phone, then the pc computer came along. Blackberry adapted some of the pc's abilities into the cell phone. Then the cell phone became the iPhone followed by Android and together they killed Blackberry when they learned to do everything better. They became pocket pc's which everyone wanted and needed. Then Microsoft came late to the party with a series of mobile os's that they soon gave up on before trying another and then another. Then they stopped making phones altogether and abandoned the mobile ecosystem, seriously ******* off their few loyal fans. Then they made the situation even worse by telling a world that isn't listening or interested in them that they have a cunning plan to create a mystical, mythical new way to communicate. Something so brilliant that the misguided 99.9% of phone users will rush to buy it from a company that had no interest in the consumer. Apple and Android killed Blackberry. Microsoft is committing suicide. Yawn.
  • Hi G4 Grandad: You I don't think iPhone and Android phone users are just going too rush off after this device. i actually said just that in the article: "After a shift to Windows on ARM, Microsoft's long-term goal is likely to target a much broader market than the relatively few dedicated Windows phone fans who remain. As a PC, and with the critical and strategic support of PC manufacturing partners, in time the ultramobile PC category's target market will likely extend beyond select markets to encompass hundreds of millions of PC users. This is a multi-phased and long-term effort that requires strategic marketing. Support from PC manufacturers is also critical to bringing this device category to the masses. Though over time, the telephony aspects of this device category will allow these ultramobile PCs to begin to overlap the smartphone space, it is not expected nor is it my analysis that they will drive iPhone and Android users to immediately replace their phones with these devices."
  • so in short it is gng to be a niche pc device, which will sell in limited numbers so in no way would drive developer adoption, just a suggestion for your next article, stop calling this a surface phone, how abt it?
  • Actually, I do that now consistently throughout the text that's why you see ultramobile PC, ultramobile Surface, it ultimate mobile device, but for SEO purposes since the "world" sees this non-phone as a Surface Phone, that's what they search, thus the boss wants Surface Phone in titles🙂 Makes sense. And as I point out in article this device is to inspire a device category with teh support of OEM partners it may begin in particular markets but over time(which i point out kn article is a long term view) will be intended to spread to the masses. You can revisit piece to see that portion also check out, This is how Surface phone can succeed www.windowscentral.com/author/jason-ward where I lay it out in detail.
  • That's right people will first buy it as a PC then think " What do I need this iPhone for? My PC can make calls too. Or the shopper who needs a PC but needs a phone too.
  • Or the complete opposite.  I got this "thing" to replace my phone and pc and it sucks compared to my iPhone and sucks compared to my pc.   What did I waste my money on. A hokey product that is useless as a mobile device and not powerful enough to replace a real pc 
  • you smokin' again mate?...well you could tell us how the ponies look like in the fantasy world you keep living in :))
  • Me?
  • Due to my irrelevance, I'm just moving to another OS environment. I'll continue to use MS products in my PC. Wait!... I remember now, I don't use PCs routinely! My All-in-one turned into rarely used furniture in my sons' bedroom!  And tthey don't use PCs, but their smartphones. MS will be to cause a real revolution to fix things with its "irrelevant supporters".
  • Tbh, I don't really trust Microsoft a great deal at the moment. Their Xbox efforts are pisspoor, phone efforts? What phone? Surfaces are the only thing I like from Microsoft.
  • The damn thing would need to exist first ... Have you considered writing fiction for a broader audience then the WC readership? You'd make more money..
  • Oh, it definitely exists. I saw pictures all over the internet earlier this week. If it is on the internet then it exists or is it just my lying eyes.
  • Someone obviously never learned that you can't trust everything you seen on the internet. You can find a picture of anything if you wanted to, it doesn't make it real. Sorry to burst your bubble.
  • "The damn thing would need to exist first ... Have you considered writing fiction..." This article is speculating that Microsoft is willing to coldly abandon the needs/wishes of it's dedicated phone fans because they believe our tiny numbers relative to the broader market make us a non-factor to their future success. You're confusing that analysis with an assertion that their next mobile device (whatever you want to call it) WILL succeed without us which is NOT what the article is saying.
  • Mostly, the only thing that was going to keep me supporting Microsoft was a "significant" rebate for owners of a windows phone device (like half-off) when the 'Surface phone' does get released.  Now with the recent information of Microsoft dumping prior customers, its probably time for me to re-look at all of the Microsoft products I use and get non-Microsoft replacements for all Microsoft applications.  (I feel so stupid for supporting the $99 a year office connectivity.)
  • This could be true if only cellular side of the mobile would work as expected. Sadly they rely on us even on that.
  • My Lumia 820 Windows Phone 8.1 is on the fritz.  I have to now get a new phone.  But I don't like Android and while I do like iOS on an iPhone, I would much like to stay with Windows Phone, but there are none out there to choose from.  I'm waiting a while to see if any news will be relased from Microsoft about the new Surface Phone...  If it's on the way, I'll wait.  But if I hear nothing by the end of the year, I'll get an iPhone.
  • I wouldn't wait if I were you. I was also on the same boat, but it occurred to me that without apps, Windows on a Phone will never become popular. Without any sort of popularity, there won't be any developers wanting to make apps. It will be YEARS if at all that MS will be able to have success in this market. For the time being you would be better off going to iPhone or Android until there is firm evidence of success. If there is a strong pattern of growth and success you could then go back, otherwise you risk being deserted once again by MS.
  • You are right when you say it wont need its existing Windows Phone base to succeed as they have whittled it down to nothing, and you are right they wont need the few that are left they are more than capable of ballsing this up without our help.
  • Guys, I have a shocking news for you: if the sun rises tomorrow morning, no matter how much you love sunrises, the Sun doesn't need you to make a beautiful sunrise.
  • If the telephony-enabled PCs plan is going to work, I hope they are working with the wireless carriers on eSIM features.  While one device for everything is appealing, there are plenty of times where i find myself with a phone and my Surface. I would like to easily be able to leave my phone behind and not miss it. I know that there are ways of doing this now, but its not as easy as it could be. 
  • Will it be able to run apps like snapchat?
  • Not unless MS can convince developers to develop apps for them. Given their track record of dumping whatever doesn't work, I am not very hopeful.
  • snapchat CEO hates microsoft.  he said it himself that his app will never be on any windows platform.  he's a dick.
  • Nope, he is actually smart not being interested in a mediocre platform that not even it's maker is not interested in.
  • Prune the dead branches, we don 't need you anymore, etc. What kind of marketing message is that? If the mindset at Microsoft is such that it doesn't need its most loyal customers, that's a pretty poor way to move forward. While true that there are fewer and fewer Windows Phone fans, what remains is a strong presence and MS should want them on their side. Thinking about how retail salespeople refused to embrace Windows Phone, I believe that there are more Windows Phone Fans than there are store clerks who will be selling the next device.  Please stop these articles trying to convince people that they should forget something that they like. I really like my Windows Phone (Microsoft 735). I am anxiously awaiting what'e next. But if it isn't small enough to be called a phone, why can't MS continue to offer a phone?  Would not a small market share be better than no market share? Why not offer a phone and whatever they're working on now?. Why not two rivers, heading in the same direction?  Microsoft should continue with Windows 10 Mobile on a first party phone. Get it in CDMA and GSM and sell it online.
  • Actually no, sometimes no Market share is better than a small one. With no Market share there is no money lost, whereas if the price of production outweighs the value of said market share than you are losing lots of money. No money lost is better than money lost. Econ 101.
  • From your article: Candidly speaking, of the world's billions of smartphone users, Windows phone users make up less than one percent of the market. Of that one percent, just over 20 percent are Windows 10 Mobile users. That negligible number of Windows-based smartphone fans, from Microsoft's perspective, likely has little strategic value for helping to promote the concept of a new brand of Windows PC with telephony.   Well said but consider this. Who is the primary culprit in the lack of MS mobile phones: MS. So why would I, as a MS lifelong supporter, believe that the next iterration of mobile device from MS will be anymore successful than this 10 year venture. For it to succeed, MS needs to become a hell of a lot more consumer and customer oriented. It needs to realize that they have no person inside MS that know how to market a concept and no one that can choose a good outside firm to do the marketing for them.  I would love to own one; use it for all it's capabilities but I think it will be priced out of my price range. So sad.
  • next ms phone needs to run android apps. 
  • This article is really a joke. Why am I reading this? Why are you writing this?
    Please don't bother us with your fantasies where we fans are useless.
    You must be very dissapointed by microsoft.
    You must be very dissapointed by the death of windows mobile.
    Get over it, move on. We, the real fans, did.
  • It's a phone. Nothing more. I have a beautiful wife, a daughter and another on the way. Nothing to get over as I type this on my 1520, and my 1020 acts as my second line. It's just a phone. Now if you take this piece in context, it is simply a presentation of how a multibillion dollar global company may not see a strategic value in a very, very small core band of users for a platform, smartphones that it may be leaving behind as it embraces a PC-oriented strategy with ultramobile PCs. As a business owner and a man with a business degree I can see a business decision(though I may not agree with it) that is not based on sentiment but on what the company feels will best serve it's long-term goals. So, I'm just presenting the analysis drakiesoft whether you agree or disagree it's worth thinking about.
  • Ythgh
  • Sigh
  • Without reading all the replies, let me offer mine. I feel more like a child abandoned by a parent but WITH child support payments and no love... It would have been better if they had set us up with an android interface, at least then we could enjoy that attention. In the same vein, I am wondering if they will ever try to gain that respect back, and if they do try, how, and if they do try, will I be willing to accept the effort. Probably so, but still hurt disappointed and pissed. Phil
  • Hey Paolo, stop hating on Jason and head over to Android Central where u belong. By the way, I like your gay as profile photo of a cat.
  • Come on, decent article with something other than several thousanmd words of hypothetical nonsense!
  • Perhaps they don't need us anymore... Because Windows 10 wouldn't be anywhere near where and how it is today without Insiders.
  • Nothing is going to work with this guy at the helm. No one trusts him anymore, and for good reason. You'd have to be a nut to not think that he wouldn't dump the next iteration in six months if it wasn't going good. Their best bet is hey rid of his temporary fix butt, and bring in someone that can try and fix the lack of communication with the public and regain their trust.
  • As usual Jason, great read! This article made Mr do some thinking... Everyone has been complaining about how Microsoft is working harder on their apps for other OSes. I think what could be happening is that Microsoft is getting people into their ecosystem of services. Once that Holy Grail of ultra mobile PC with telephony comes along, those users will already be used to the services. It could be a little gear fetched, but hey, it's a thought. Also, I don't feel abandoned with my 950 XL.
  • Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!
  • I am afraid even an incredible ultramobile PC is going to fail. Look at Samsungs dex in the S8. Who would want an ultramobile PC without any of the basic phone apps people depend on, when they can get everything that the "surface phone" can do (even Ms Office!) on an android phone that does everything and more. It is bound to fail. MS has alienated everyone including developers. If success is even possible it will take SEVERAL YEARS. That is why I have left windows for Android. At least I know the phone will be supported for a few years...
  • I agree that we are few, and I am still a believer, but good luck getting people to overcome the Microsoft phone stigma without as many evangilists as possible.  You may call it a Surface or micro-tablet, but to the masses, it's a phone.
  • Absolutely
  • all these articles about dying and bringing back alive is such a **** tease.
  • They should have at least kept their promises they made on the launch of 950 series.. They can't promise me of something and after i buy a phone they tell me 2 years after that it was a lie and they will cancel it.. Basically it's fraud..
  • I'd rather convert to a more trustworthy platform where i know that they won't ditch me after one year making my device worthless and telling me to buy the next product everytime they fail..
  • Iphone it is for you Muhammad!  even android phones get ditched from support after one year...
  • You can see a Jason Ward article from a kilometer away. I started following this site like 1.5 years ago and since then he is just posting that "I believe it, microsoft will definitly get better this time, it soon" articles. Nope, it won't. How do you keep your optimism after all these years, a person couldn't be more naive. But your writing skills are great, you can sell anything. I'll be stoned to death or at least disliked to death for this comment but, here it goes.
  • He can sell anything? seriously? Remember Cerulean, his endless overhype actually killed the Cerulean moment.
  • I mean he can try to sell a ford, as like it was a mercedes. His overhype was doing this effect. You may buy a ford, but you wouldn't if it was tried to sold as a mercedes.
  • Actually estolada take a closer look "a kilometer away" is too far away for you to see the point🙂 I'm presenting what I believe Microsoft's strategy is and why the company may believe it does not need the miniscule remaining WP fan base for it's potential new device. That was the core of the piece. Now I was blatantly clear in the opening an closing to state "IF" Microsoft' plan succeeds. What many of you are missing is I am usually presenting in these pieces, analysis of where I think MS is going and what it's strategy is, and what Microsoft's intended or expected outcome will be if the strategy works. It's not a claim that it will work. It may our may not turn out as they hope. But in an environment that provides only pieces to a larger puzzle I try to look at many of the variables company mission, technology investments, industry trends, competition, statements from leadership, company strengths, history, long-term trends, company reorgs, acquisitions, and more to see the larger picture and compose a piece that lays out a cohesive vision of what I believe the company is doing. It is an analysis, not a statement that it will succeed.
  • Techiez.....Jason never killed cerulean.   Wharton Brooks did that right from the beginning.   It was a hack job from the start.  I think poor ole Jason got suckered by the best buy geek squad.  They were supposed to be a great company designing web based software?  their website looked like a 3 year olds coloring book,  with about the same flow.  I think they went to Trump University....learned the master of the pitch,  and nothing else.  I think one of them served me at customer service in staples the other day.
  • First let them release one, then we can talk!?
  • True, but Android would suvive with out die hard fans too. People need phones.  Not all of us are uber cell phone happy. BUT when you get a of people who were loyal bad mouthing a company...it's not helpful either.
  • Android would live on because of the stupid cheap phones.  Apple, on the other hand, would be in trouble without the goofs that stand in line for a phone.  They would end up going the blackberry or palm direction.  
  • Sorry Doctah...(nice name btw),  but this "goof" has tried all the phones out there,  and iphone is the most polished experience.  hands down...boring?  sometimes...useful?  ALWAYS.  OH...I don't stand in line for any device.
  • if there is a surface phone
  • I said it many months ago, do not spend your time giving free help to a corporation. I'm talking about the Insider Program. All of your advice was just taken and the source of said advise, namely you, was abandoned! Unless you are compensated, it is really stupid, yes harsh reality stupid, to throw your resources at a corporation because they have a history of dumping real people whenever it is monetarily expedient. That is why you shouldn't donate to companies, or charities, at all (whether time or money or material goods) unless you have first hand experience (i.e. you worked for them) of how they spend donated funds and your ok with it. If you want to give, give to a live body. Do not give to a company unless it is to purchase a service or good. Do not buy into the crap from companies that you are family with them...not true, unless you have a family that tosses you out on the street if the bank account isn't always a plus. To give your hard earned tech expertise to MS for free is feeding the monster. Let this be a lesson, if anyone wants you to join a testing program of some sort. Always, ALWAYS, demand compensation, or demand they get out of your way! BTW, I like this article so I spent time commenting. PS, I tip my waiter/waitress because they are real people. If someone at the grocery store asks me to donate to a charity, I ask them if they personally get any of the money. If not, then forget it, because they can use it much more than XYZ donation company and the fat cat CEO...man I could go on and on...
  • Exactly.   The suckers ..... I mean insiders program was the reason the 1020 never got 10.  A couple of dufuses sent feedback that their phone slowed down and screwed up for all of the 1020 users.  Mine was just as fast as my wife's running w8.1.  No difference.  The insider program is a terrible flop and caused the real development team to be canned for amateur testers.  Plain and simple 
  • Insiders, or more like free guinea pigs for MS were the answer Nadella came with after laying off the dedicated testing teams and look at the results we have: at most mediocre quality. Sorry insiders, but chosing to test something for free for a company that does not give 2 cents on you is pure stupidity.
  • I like Jason's articles. Can we bank on any of that stuff to really happen? Your guess is as good as mine. One thing is for certain, though. Windows 10, CShell, continuum and cloud first make no sense without some meaningful presence in the mobile market.
    I am curious what Microsoft is cooking up here. There definitely will be some sort of mobile device, whatever it will look like.
    I just hope it sees the light of day rather sooner than later.
    In the meantime, I am quite happy with my x3 and lap dock and probably will be until the next thing arrives.
  • Nadella's reign is about the cloud. WP is dead and has been dead since he took power. you fools hated Baldmer and Elop. I bet fools wished they  were back. They both pushed WP hard and made grounds. Nadella pushed WP to its death.
  • W10M I personally love it since 2014. My first mobile is Lumia 820 and still using it. But as W10M does not support it so it's became worst but still I use it as my secondary phone bcoz i move to android for my primary phone. It's more than 2 years no new hardware no big OS update.
    We still believe in W10M. But microsoft breaking a heart of insider every time by releasing big build. But now it's ok as windows arm devices should be there with new hardware so nothing can do with my lumia 950.
    We will happy with new devices but should come in market.
    In 2017 many events are already organized by microsoft but still nothing for Mobile.
    They are already too late and still don't know when we will see new devices.
    Company like microsoft take too much time for developing there mobile device so shame on it.
    World is moving forward and where MS stood???
    As they make late the frustrations of insider will be increases. We feel angry when they develop and give a major update in IOS & Android. But not available for there own windows phone. This is injustices with insider and W10M.
  • i personally favored 7 and 8.1, especially 7. It was different and refreshing, at the sme time unique with the integration and all. W10 destroyed all that simplicity and uniqueness. W10M is more or less like and Android skin...
  • Indirectly microsoft kill both W8.1M and W10M on old devices. It's killing bcoz they just releasing a stupid bug build every now and than.
  • If they don't have capability to develop Windows phone then they just tell so we can move. No meaning if they release there arm device in 2020. It's better to stop mobile save money and invest in PC and rest of surface product.
    Micorosoft is doing a smart work with mobile.
    They are busy with surface pro, xbox, laptop, hololens, hub and some ninja but no mobile.
  • Zzzzzzz More Jason Ward W.P clickbait articles with never ending speculation and a total lack of anything factual.
  • Poor dude has nothing else to write about, already got a rap for the Cerulean articles else he would have kept gng with those still. so now this is the only topic he's left with, so he keeps on paraphrasing same stuff.
  • Actually, here's what I've been writing about ambient computing, AR, Microsoft's consumer focus, Microsoft leadership and more. Ashame you missed it, it's good stuff😉. But it's all there, forever etched in the digital ether. Now perhaps your perception that this is the only topic I write about is a result of the core audience here being Windows Phone fans, thus yours and others higher level of engagement on this topic than some of the others you erroneously claim I am not writing about which can be found here🙂: www.windowscentral.com/author/jason-ward
  • Jason . Thanks for article . First as Microsoft fan since Win7 ,had a 710 , a 925 and now a 640 on WM10 which i plan to change for a 950 next month for faster speed , i don't feel abandoned at all . The OS is wonderful and get timely upgrade. Is just a phone Jason , i don't expect the moon
    Second a 6" or slightly bigger screen device that can make phone call is a smartphone, plain and simple . Putting full Windows or a xeon chip inside is not going to change that . It is still a phone. And without enough apps , even if the OS is breathtaking it will not take off . Unless price is low or has international carrier support which is unlikely . Microsoft can try but in parallel must continue to upgrade W10M and release at least one new device a year for that OS to test the market . My humble opinion .
  • And Ballmer COULD come back
  • Flop
  • It's just a phone. I don't take it personally if a company makes something new or not, and whether i like it or not. I'm happy using my x3. If a better device comes along better for my needs, then i will get it. So far I have not been convinced to go Android to iPhone. I have a work iPhone, i use it as a paperweight that runs a couple apps if needed. Thanks to dual sim, i just keep using WM as my daily driver.
  • An ultra portable PC still isn't going to have Snapchat, Pokemon Go, or any of the other flavor of the month apps that keep people on the iPhone. But hey, maybe the kids have just been waiting for a full version of Excel in their pockets.
  • yeah, keep on playing while we make business working with a professional computing device
  • Yeah true.I like the spirit of self confidence Microsoft is displaying.
  • My Honest Personal opinion:
    Who wants tomorrow's big heaven when it is not even guaranteed?
    Show me where I can find today's palace, be it smaller than the heaven... And then I always find Android and Apple raising their hand..... That's how you deliver business.. 😎
  • If MS keeps ignoring the paradigm that smart phones is and will be it is signing it's own death sentence. While the investment on mobile was not producing immediate returns and the entrance was not spectacular it created anxiety to all other players. A 10 percent share for a late comer is considerable (that in the hey day just 2years ago. The investment was not nearly a profound a on things like linkedn but the lack of organization and the corporate mess, and the lack of determination made MS not deliver and produce sluggish attempts that were not dynamic enough to bring developers and corporations in the boat. It was the tale of short term gains and a long term uncertainty. Depending in companies to buy PCs to maintain market presence can only last so much. Meanwhile even companies are using android an ios all over the work place in the newest applications while the desktop in the office is less and less used until no one needs it anymore.
  • At this point Microsoft should just go the route of apple and just make their own Hugh end phones and the google route and allow devs to make their own low end and mid range phones. Label it with surface phone or surface mobile and release it to everyone including retailers their own stores and promote the hell out of it through the windows store and windows etc
  • I sometimes think about why Windows Phone never succeed.
    Beautiful and Simple Homescreen UI makes everyone faster and easier jobs possible.
    But the Settings are the worst than any OSes because it's too complicated. Furthermore, Apps are not quite many as other OSes.
    These make Windows Phone the Useless phone even it is Strong and Beautiful. Finally, they have beautiful and sharp screen, hi-quality camera. I want more Windows Phone to be made for the fans like me and you.
  • are likely acceptable collateral damage from Redmond's perspective
    Perhaps the problem is that, over the years, too many people have already fallen into this category with MS products. Apart from that, not sure I agree with the assertion. Early adopters are the ones to jump-start a trend, to take the risks and spread the message. This does not have to be the current users, but it's quite a bit easier to get them to take the risk instead of people entrenched in other mobile ecosystems.
  • Perhaps, but since this isn't a phone but a PC, and iPhone and Android users uses PCs, if this is marketed right, that "being part of another mobile ecosystem" will be less of a barrier.
  • those users already have a laptop, a capable laptop. What would make them use this limmited pocket pc? with no apps? to have to carry two devices: their smartphone and this device? Please just stop talking like we are all smoked out, and do not have a brain for ourselves. It does not matter how MS will call it. A 5-6" device will be seen as a phone!! and without apps it's gonna be DOA, again. A pocket device is seen as a smartphone! and needs mobile apps, functionality on the go FIRST before anything else. 
  • I won't buy NOTHING from Microsoft untill Satya The Dork won't be sent back to India
  • So you'll buy SOMETHING from Microsoft then....
  • same here...until that guy is not replaced, ain't gonna buy anything from Microsoon. The only thing I have and works is my xbox one, but not anything else. He can go and sell mediocre quality in other companies...
  • of course you don't need us for your surface phone to succeed. but if you fail, we are still loyal as your fans 😭. -Lumia 950 user-
  • well I can actually say, been using Windows Phones for years, always keeping up with the changes & upgrades. But now I've had enough of feeling let down ,all the uncertainty around Windows Phones &W10M. There's plenty of good Mobiles about now One plus 3 & 5. Nokia are back with some Quality, ASUS ZenFone, I'm going to give one of these a go, sick of throwing money time & effort at Windows Mobile & W10M.
  • Of course, Microsoft has to succeed without us, Windows Phone fans. If not they will be stuck with around 1% of the phone marked. And I think they have bigger goals than that. What it will be and when, is an other matter. They have given us WP-fans a great advice. Switch to Samsung for the time being. I'm still on my Lumia 950 XL. But at some time I too will switch.
  • With all things said, W10M is now more or less dead. Sure, it will get RS2+ on phones officially supported on RS2. Sure, we'll still get UWP app updates, especially for core apps. We trimmed the fat that was Silverlight. But the OS isn't progressing anymore on phones. It is on desktop with CShell and RS3 looked like it did bring a few UI changes for phones, tested on the HP X3. But they don't intend to release RS3 for phones ... so that's that. Windows Phone had a nice 7 year run. I liked the platform and I liked the phones: L800, L900, L920, L930, L950 and HP X3. We'll move on and we'll see what Microsoft has next in store for us.
  • Microsoft has always done their own thing. Makes me wonder though what's behind microsoft's toxic demand for feedback. Why ask if they need us for feedback and help? What worries me is the retrenchment of mobile and the pursuit of "windows 10 on arm" as a surrogate title for a "pc in your pocket". Microsoft showed limitations on their update support for mobile, such as clover trail stuck on anniversary, older lumia devices not updatable to anniversary, and update issues with Windows Phone 7 and 8. Windows 10 has a backlog of issues predating Anniversary. There is no clear transparency about the future updability of future ARM chipset windows devices compared to Intel and AMD  (windows xp>7>8> 10) . Windows does push feature improvement updates to later updates. Windows 10 on ARM will not be optimal from the start even though issues and bugs were reported and known beforehand.. I’m worried users are not getting the windows 10 on ARM they were promised out of the box. UWP and centennial apps are not well stocked in the windows store yet. Windows 10 on ARM will be a patchy experience from the start. Reminds me of windows Phone 7. This whilst windows Phone has been maturing well over time. I don’t see how microsoft doens’t need help with this from longtime users and the fans.
  • Here is your foldable device https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=WL&v=-b7z68ijvqc Btw... it runs Android
  • A very long time Windows phone user who has thrown in the towel. I have owned numerous PocketPc phones all the way up to the Nokia 950XL which I loved. What I have discovered by moving to the Samsung Galaxy 8+ are the quality of the apps. We all have been vocal about the many apps in the Windows store. Yes, missing many but sufficient enough to enjoy the phone. Now I know that is wrong. The apps in the Google play store are updated almost every other week if not every week. Ok probably not that often but it feels like it is happening that frequently. On the Windows phone apps from large companies can languish forever. Most of my complaints about certain features and how they work on many apps are not an issue on the Galaxy. Microsoft has two problems. They not only need to get developers excited to write apps for the store. They need the excitement to extend to corporate budgets that allows for continual upgrades and improvements. I bought my Galaxy in a Microsoft store. Instead of getting Samsung to offer a Windows version we have another indication that Microsoft does want to bury the phone before introducing a new mobile category. Which is why I went with the Galaxy. I didn't feel the love anymore. Why suffer when now I have a phone that has apps to control the house to handling commerce. I will return when the mythical Surface mobile device comes out. I expect we will see it in Spring 2018.
  • True...was shocked the other day when I saw 2 Samsung Galaxy phones on display in a MSFT store...makes sense since MSFT owns patents on Android and for each Android phone sold, MSFT gets $15-$20 in royalty fees.
  • Windows phones are dead. Why would anyone trust Microsoft with another venture. Screw me once, screw me twice, eventually I get the message. Hello Android!
  • the Surface phone evolution seems quite natural to me, at the end it's a Surface with ARM that replaces the Surface 3 with Atom, with all the benefits of the SoC platform like telephony, power consumption, ecc...Put a small screen on it and you've got your Surface phone. Or put it the other way put a big screen on a 950 and you have a Surface 3. I also think they will sell different screen sizes of the Surface with ARM if the foldable screen it's not yet ready for real use.
  • Folks I Know why Microsoft is designing a dual screen Mini Tablet. Windows 10 on ARMS CPU's is desigened to work on Tablets and Laptop PC's not smartphones. so if you want to bulid an smart phone that can run any x86 Win32 PC programs you have put a smart phone inside the Tablet ;. Therefore the Surafce smart phone will become a Mini Tablet / Smartphone Hybrid. I do not think it will be callled a Surface smartphone when it comes to the market place but it will be small enough to easily carry, light weight, Run Win32 x86 Desktop PC programs. Windows 10 PC store apps and the new UWP Apps and maybe some Windows 8/10 phone apps and have a cell phone in it to send and recieve vioce phone calls. Who knows it could even be a dual OS device using Windows 10 on ARMS as it's main software and Windows 10 mobile you access trough touching a Phone tile. wild ideas but who knows it might happen just as I wrote  
  • What's the point of x86 on a mobile device?  Those programs are for static computing.   Not mobile computing.   Dead device walking. 
  • fangirl truth downvotes....thanks everyone!!!
  • There isn't any point, on a 5-7" device you need mobile apps! touch optimzed apps...but then again, you saw clearly that fanboys will buy any crap MS is talking about.
  • oh oh oh oh ??? when did windows phone suuceed without fans? Oh oh oh ? when did we saw windows phone having any market share :D even the title, kills the last hope i got for this platform, i'm the only one left in almost everyone i know that still use windows phone :-( 
  • To borrow one of Cupertino's favorite adjectives, Microsoft needs to create a revolutionary product if it wants to succeed in mobile, a product that will make the average Joe stop and consider before getting their next whatever. Easier said than done, yes, but Microsoft has the very best minds around. They can pull it off.
  • It's the chicken/egg syndrome.  No apps because no users.  No users because no apps.   Ms need the apps to drive phone sales.  No apps no phone.   Simple.   There is no revolutionary device or os going to change this simple fact.   Web browser will never replace full fledged apps on mobile.  
  • There was absolutely no point in writing this. It serves no purpose beyond click bait.
  • Actually, the answer is simple.
    Everyone is busy with Android and iPhone, no one have resources to build app for another phone (uwp.phone). But, if you want to write applications for win10 PC? Chossing uwp.win10 (if you do game the add uwp.xbox in) over win32 is just no brainer. So, no one have time for uwp.phone + uwp.win10 is essential = ?
    Just get rid of uwp.phone, devs then no longer need to maintain 3 platforms (uwp.phone, uwp.win10 and uwp.xbox) but just 2 (uwp.win10 and uwp.xbox).
  • Windows fans enthusiasts are much more likely to use MS services even when they are inferior. Groove - Spotify
  • The author is definitely a android user. Get out of here. We don't need u.
  • Hi wazinated actually I carryon both a Lumia 1020 with Windows Phone 8 (because I refuse to upgrade it because I like some of those forsaken features/UI elements) and a Lumia 1520 with Windows 10. Microsoft is a business and is driven more by business strategy than sentiment. This article was highlighting what I believe thier perspective to be. Please read: I am a Windows phone fan in an iPhone and Android world. Why? Because Microsoft has it going on: https://www.windowscentral.com/im-windows-phone-fan-iphone-and-android-world-why-microsoft-has-it-going-and-you-know-it
  • If windows phone didn't matter Author wouldn't have wasted his time writting this post.
  • we paid for a phone that is dead of support,anyway never again windows mobile!!!!!!!!!!!1
  • By this time, it is pointless to write about Windows phones, MS screw with customers and fans countless times. Who cares about UWP, I personally hate it, so buggy, if you are a developer, you can choose other better platforms like Java hands down, in fact some of the most robust enterprise developments (Middleware) are made with a mix of Java, Linux, Oracle. Sad but true, ask developers, Java ones are better paid than .Net ones. It's commonly hear that if something fails the first question is: Is it running on Windows? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • I wish in 2017 we can see new windows 10 mobile. I don't know u are living in this world or not. And also u r reading comments regularly or not. Before writing this article u would go to take some survey. I don't about ur country. But in India W10M is no more. Some are using forcefully bcoz they don't have any option as they had buy a costly device like 950 and as they don't get a good resale value and so they can't buy a new phone (android & Apple). I am using lumia 950 and 640xl. One for insider and other for non insider. But now in near future they also not support new C Shell OS.  As u said fans not important, they are must bro. As personally I will never buy current devices for my family. If in future windows devices support a larger number apps then it's k. But to win the heart of the customer microsoft have to do a lot more then they had never done before. Android and ios devices are in the blood of customer now a days. All microsoft apps are already available on both this platform, but they release new update for both this devices before it's own W10M. If customer getting everything on this both devices then why they buy new surface phone. U r thinking that windows fans are in larger number so phone will be sell in larger number. Then remove this thing from ur brain. Bro listen popularly surface phone will be buy those who totally dedicate windows phone fan and once they buy and experience will be good then that will be formation cycle. Due to fans the phone will be success. Bcoz right now senerio nobodg  will be buy windows phone why they should transfer and if fans will review and give good response to then only then it will buy by other. Last not tell that fans are not important. It was It will be.   Jai hind 
  •  in my estimation, Steve Jobs steam rolled Microsoft with the iPhone because Steve was passionate about great products that people would really want. His focus was people first. Great products for real people. Microsoft seems bogged down in customer feedback, trying to be something they're not so they can increase the stock price. They lack authenticity. Panos Panay is authentic. But it seems to end there for Microsoft. Everyone else seems to take Panos' products and say here's a new product you are going to love because it will make our stock price rise!  another person i feel is authentic and cares about people is the CEO of t-mobile John Legere. He cares enough to make changes to the company that truly help people, he took head-on everything people hate about cell carriers and continues fixing it. and as a side effect, has significantly increased the market share of t-mobile.   businesses don't do business with other businesses, people do business with other people. make it about the people, and they will come flocking to you.  for this reason i think the surface phone is doomed. Because even the partners, HP, Dell, Lenovo, all suffer from a lack of authenticity.  Microsoft's complete rejection of me as a person with a Windows Phone, has soured me on all their products. i found myself at Best Buy a few weeks ago strolling through the apple 🍎 products for the first time ever.  they may not need me for Surface Phone to succeed. But it is that very lack of caring about the fans that will fail to attract non fans. When a husband publicly beats, cheats and abuses his wife, there isn't a long line of women waiting to be next. Microsoft has again and again disappointed their loyal fans  Their constant cold hearted dropping of the fans has turned their best advertisers into their worst enemies.      
  • MS once had such a message on their keynote advertising panels: Put people first, but that was before Nadella came on board and started to fire engineers, testers and reduced the teams in such a manner that the quality we've got so far is at most mediocre. On short term he earned more money for MS, but on long term he destroyed the company's reputation whic will bring the fall in every aspect, including financial. Besides cloud services, MS will become irrelevant, just another IBM wannabe that no one cares about.
  • I'm using windows phone system since 2012 nokia 620 , first version of windows phone 8 was uncompleted and lacked action center menu, and lacked more featured and functions there on android ,and store has very limitation in apps that make apps miserable compare to android apps,  beside ugly UI that is abstracted only 2 color black and white for themes preview , and also start menu color has only dozen colors,beside inconsistence live tile shape you see some transparent icons and other colored icons and general shape is inconsistence  ,I'm not negate featured on windows 8 and 8.1 like performance and speed and that performance comes  at the expense of beautiful UI , The windows phone designer has Reduce UI to 10 or more colors on UI, and that becomes ugly system with user interface, On the contrary windows phone 8.1 has new featured not seeing on android like double tap to to wake up device to save device buttons,and galance screen is new featured on WP, within other drawbacks on windows 8 and 8.1 (setting section) has more unarrangeable tabs and has lacked containder sections , the container sections and well arranged tabs come on windows 10 mobile ,until windows 10 every thing was good But unfortunately every cumulative update comes with minor bugs inside systems they try to fix some bugs and make new bugs , all that thins make WP user fans migrate to android and market share downgrade to 0.1 point all that thing Contribute to fail Windows phone system.
  • Click bait.
  • Even Joe B bailed.
  • I wonder why the HP Elite X3 is coming to Verizon then? Didn't they get the memo?
  • It's not...they are just flipping the little switch so that people who purchased them else where can use them on v's network...Verison is NOT selling them.
  • Here is the way I see it. If it rings and you can answer it then it's a phone If you can make a phone call then it's a phone. Rename it to whatever kind of device that you want to call it, but the public will see it for what it is a PHONE. Does MS really think that people will put down the phone they have because they need a PC in their pocket? Absurd. And we know it will be expensive enough that it better be able to replace all your devices. I can't wait to see someone going down the road and holding a device like that up to use while they are driving. There is no question that MS better find some foothold in the mobile (phone) market or they are going to get buried by the people who produce phones that run an OS that is not Windows
  • True speaking mate! But both MS and the fanboys here still live in a fantasy world where every other IOS or Android user is stupid enough to ditch their smartphones and buy whatever Pocket PC they think to launch :)).
  • Do not expect for ms to have respect idiots. Stop hoping for this company to turn Jesus. Actually, stop asking for any of this companies: Crapple, Groogle, Micandsfot and oh so man others to have even slight respect for their customers. Hack, this ******* are so big now, they do not respekt even their partners(and believe me, their are many) and you expect them to respekt a once 600€ "donner"? Wake up man.
  • Be happy and stay healthy sir
  • July 2017- MS Doesn't need you for Surface Phone to succeed. October 2017 - MS doesn't have a Surface Phone. But, does it matter? July 2018 - Surface Phone project is dead. But windows mobile strategy is alive. October 2018 - MS doesn't need you for Microsoft Mobile strategy to succeed.  July 2019 - MS Mobile strategy has failed, but does it matter?   -------  Keep going windows central. Already you're dropped from my book mark.  P.S: Please don't mess up the desktop environment and PC services behind this unicorn. Your Windows 10 recent customizations are absolutely useless and no-brainer. Don't keep adding so-called new features we barely need. 
  • If there is any doubt that the phone is dead, Microsoft just took a 1.8 billion dollar tax write off for failure of the Windows mobile phone. To this date, they have not admitted that the phone is dead. I think this confirms it in a round-about way.
  • Well, I'm not buying this article, unless a Surface Phone is available for me to buy.
  • Kaput!
  • Phone is just an app. So is Skype. Which one do you think Microsoft want you to be using on your pocket sized computer?
  • I'm buying the device on Day one.
  • Then quit chirpin and bring out the surface phone already!
  • We have a saying in Australia that goes along the lines of "Yeah, Narrh" or an alternative might be "Tell 'em they're dreaming!" To cut off the foot in the door means the door closes.
  • :))))) yeah right. Let's see them do it without users and devs :)))
  • Jason, you are surely correct about MS' plans. They've made that strategy pretty clear by their actions and words. Most of the comments here seem to be based on your provocative title and not the article where you've laid out the reasoning perfectly. People don't seem to grasp the concept of making calls from a tablet computer as a secondary function... But I think they are also correct on their general point that Microsoft may be making a mistake. In marketing, we have a rule that MS seems to be ignoring: it costs far more to get new customers than to keep an existing customer. I'd say that a corollary to that is that fans are valuable and important and ditching them because there aren't enough of them to make a viable business is unwise. In fact, if you read Crossing the Chasm, which nails this point perfectly, the small number of passionate early adopters are key to introducing any new technology. Even in our current tiny numbers, we're still the perfect starting vector for MS marketing. We can either be the advocates or the loudest critics. Wouldn't it be wise for MS to court us as advocates? To be fair, MS has not told us fans that it doesn't want us to embrace their future PC. In fact, I would suggest that one of the reasons they've not announced the final end of Windows Phone is because they don't want to alienate us or push us away completely until there is a replacement. Is it possible, that articles like this, by serving to further anger fans (not diminishing MS own role in angering fans), work to undermine the future success of such an ultramobile PC? Just something to think about...
  • Only two words.....Surface Phone = F*cky F*ck!!!
  • Windows Mobile is dead. I really do not see why anyone would switch to another MS Mobile effort since they have no intention of staying the course today.
  • I switched my wife from a 640 to a Samsung because I got tired of her complaining about the lack of apps. I could have easily switched to a Samsung too after trying hers out. There a lot of things that I don't like her Android including the UI. So I'm sticking to my 640 until Microsoft totally drop support for Windows 10 mobile. If Microsoft does come out with a new affordable phone device then I will be there....
  • Well it will be without me. I am not going to trust MS again. And let's face it, whatever they come out with, will very soon be duplicated. So even if they are the first, the Android version will be in the shop minutes later. With all the apps that I need.
  • It can't and won't succeed not because of fans, or lack of fans.  It won't succeed because of developers.  No developer, as with every other itteration of Windows Phone, will write apps for it.  We've all heard "yeah, but this is being targeted towards the corporate world, not consumers"  -- It doesn't matter.  The corporate world has changed and Microsoft hasn't changed with them.  Fewer and fewer corporations are providing mobile devices to employees.  Corporations are adopting a BYOD policy.  Employees are bringing their own devices and they're not going to bring a Microsoft device when they can't do anything on it other than making phone calls.
  • Great article! This was almost the last straw in the general sense that, Microsoft does not need loyalists! MSFT does not look back at the past, always trying to look ahead, beyond the horizons. They constantly moving away from waiting of simple earthly joys of users. This is wired, but my next phone will not be from Microsoft! Because while they rush from one abstract idea to another, fight for ephemeral progress, patent strange concepts of devices on Cshell, dreaming about a global digital future in the style of IOT, someone else will take their place today. Someone will offering already sharpened, perfectly working solutions. Technologies that support life in my existing devices but not killing it with every wave of update. Because I live and work today. I am entertained and rest today, not tomorrow! And I want my device not to die, in my arms, but grew and developed along with me! Now! (sorry my poor English, its not native.)
  • I completely agree with Jason here. Micrososft never really thought that it needed any support from users anyway. No fan base, no user support and no developer support. MS will still launch this PC, see it fail and then drop the plan of going mobile altogether. There is no surprise in any of these eventualitites. Only funny thing would be a board meeting happening in redmond at some point in future to ponder over the reason as to why such an 'ultimate' device failed.
  • thank you for letting us know,,letting us down,,i don't think new fans will join after seen something like this,,anyway microsoft phone sucks the max,,waiting nokia come up with new phone,,always loved the microsoft ,,not anymore,,
  • This article makes just as much sense as Microsoft's strategies. None. Ok, the user base is tiny-tiny. (Wonder who's to blame). But why insult people? Why adding insult to injury? It just doesn't make any sense. The only way it actually makes any sense is if MS is owing money to WC which they refuse to pay and WC is kinda trying damaging them as retaliation..
  • News for you.Microsoft, I don't need you and your pathetic mobile system come the new year. Fact!!
  • I reached that conclusion a few weeks ago. My Lumia 950 now sits in a drawer with a dead battery. It only took about 4.5 hours in a day to get there. I tried using Microsoft Band, they abandoned it. Apps I used daily, dropped support for the OS one by one. I now have an iPhone. It has only been a week or two. Everything works. Vendors support their apps in every respect. So, it doesn't matter to me that Microsoft doesn't need me for it's next whatever to succeed. It also doesn't need from me what it will get, bad PR.  Like another writer put it above. I need my stuff working today, while I am still here. It's nice for MS to have a future vision, but I will always recoommend some other vendor, provider, whatever. Truth is, I don't need MS for my future, and I no longer need them now.
  • Yay, you can surf the internet on a giant Windows Phone. whoopee. But,,, you can't get apps for squat on all things windows. My latest frustration is not being able to get major venue ticket apps so I don't have to download and print my tickets. Going to switch to Android just to get more apps, can't take it anymore. 10 years with windows phone and DONE.