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Microsoft confirms full Windows 10 on ARM won't be coming to existing phones

Windows Phones
Windows Phones (Image credit: Windows Central)

Ever since Microsoft announced that full Windows 10 would be coming to ARM, many Windows phone fans have assumed this means phones like the Lumia 950 and Lumia 950 XL will be getting an update to full Windows 10. File this one under "totally obvious," but today Microsoft's Joe Belfiore confirmed that existing Windows phones won't be getting full Windows 10 on ARM.

Joe Belfiore provided a rather technical and insightful explanation as to why existing phones won't be able to run full Windows 10 on ARM during the Windows Insider Mixer Broadcast (47:20 minute mark) :

The Windows 10 on ARM effort is about enabling the PC experience on devices that are built on ARM so that they're connected all the time and have great battery life. So the experience is a desktop PC experience, it's not a phone-like experience. For phone-like experiences on ARM, we have Windows 10 Mobile. What Windows 10 on ARM is, is a desktop-like experience so that you get the battery life that ARM processors tend to have.The other thing that's interesting about this is that in all cases where you build ARM software, it's not so easy to just put it on another device. The OS intermingles with what's called the BSP (board support package), and that's how the software talks to the SoC. There's special work that has to be done to get the OS talking to the BSP, talking to the SoC, so it's not like the PC ecosystem where we write an OS in the same binaries that run on lots of different PCs. With ARM devices with SoC, you have to more closely target it. So that is often the case why it's more challenging for us to get updates to a wide range of ARM devices. They're all quite different, which adds delay, and as the number of people using those devices gets smaller, it unfortunately makes less sense for us to invest more time and energy in that.

In short, Belfiore explains that the full Windows 10 on ARM effort is about enabling great battery life and sleep on ARM based laptops and tablets, and not about bringing full Windows 10 to phones. Now of course, this doesn't mean Microsoft isn't working on something for phones. Rumor has it, Microsoft is planning yet another attempt at Windows phone, that may show up as early as next year.

We believe that this next attempt at phones won't be launching for existing handsets however, which means devices like the Lumia 950 will be keeping with Windows 10 Mobile. We do know that CShell will play a big roll part in it, but outside of that not much else is known about the project.

Full Windows 10 on ARM will be launching on tablets and laptops with Snapdragon 835 processors later this year. In the meantime, are you interested in buying a device with Windows 10 powered by an ARM processor?

Zac Bowden is a Senior Editor at Windows Central. Bringing you exclusive coverage into the world of Windows 10 on PCs, tablets, phones, and more. Also an avid collector of rare Microsoft prototype devices! Keep in touch on Twitter: @zacbowden.

478 Comments
  • Jesus Christ.....again?
  • Well that was totally expected. No current phone would be able to run full Windows 10, even Elite X3. We're all now waiting for something aka Surface Phone.
  • They demonstrated Windows on ARM on the exact same specs as the Elite X3. Belfiore excuse is B.S.
  • They also said that it was ONLY for devices with a SD835 and NOT SD820. I'm not sure why that part is always left out in these discussions, it's literally the most important fact that we DO know about Windows 10 on ARM.
  • They did not say that at WinHec last year. The guy from ARM literally held up an Elite x3 and said the demo was running on the same hardware. I don't care so much that they don't bring WoA to SD820 devices, but the plan to branch off Windows Mobile OS from Windows PCs running ARM is no different from what MS did with Windows RT and Windows Phone in 2012. This plan is awful, more awful than not supporting Elite X3 and Alcatel Idol owners. Microsoft is an embarrassment, they are admitting technical incompetence here.
  • Yes they did it as a DEMO. That doesn't equate to them saying it'll be available on Elite X3 and other newer phones. Technically, maybe they can make it do that, but maybe it doen't run well like how windows 10 on really cheap tablets with less than optimal hardware can suck even though it technically works. 
  • Look buddy don't get there and think you're speaking to a room full of out the womb babies. From the moment you demo something running and with the speed that the vid showed it functioning at didn't suggest they played it at 2X the normal speed. It clearly showed it works. You build up expectations and then to say sorry you're going to have to wait another 2 yrs or so and spend obviously wayyy more than what you bought the 950,X3 or the Idol 4S for.
  • I could not agree more with your statement. Microsoft needs to smarten up no doubt.
  • More a proof of concept, and a direction hint. I didn't expect it on the 820 devices.
  • Save your breath dude, Microsoft can do no wrong in these guys eyes.
  • WoA is RT done right.
  • Except for the fact that it is nothing like RT.
  • Except for the fact that it is nothing like RT.
  • Except for the fact that it is nothing like RT.
  • Except for the fact that it is nothing like RT.
  • Can we please get this issue resolved already?
  • No one with half brain not expected full Windows 10 on ARM for existing phones, because there are no phones with SD835 soc. But that does not mean there will be no update for the Elite X3. CShell is next thing for mobile, and we already saw that bild in action. Perhaps you should try to explain better to some what CShell means, as some apparently do not get it... With CShell they could bring anything from desktop to mobile. Even win32 apps. If oem decides to do it. Ofcourse they need to bring appropriate hardware for it.
  • I dont think that's what cshell is.
  • CShell is same OS, only scaled differently for different screen sizes. With the appropriate UI for those screens.
  • C-Shell - Composable Shell - is just the UI part. C-Shell doesn't bring anything and everything from Phone to Tablet to Desktop, doesn't let popular Desktop Apps run on Phones  
  • I don't care about full Windows 10 on ARM.  I want cshell and an improved continuum experience.  That's all I care about.  Lumia 950XL should be able to run cshell.   They just don't seem to talk about it much.
  • They demoed Windows on ARM on the 820 because the 835 wasn't on the market yet. What don't you understand about this?
  • So Dan if I may ask, what little hope can we expect for our L950s? Not even the slightest changes in CShell or Continuum?. Something to make our current devices better for work and usage till our next big phone. Any hint to give me some hope?
  • I will be happy if Microsoft gives us a ARMv8 version of Windows 10 Mobile and it continues to run UWP apps.
  • I have a 950, and even I can ask "who cares what happens to it?"
    ..........
    Waiting on the next generation of Windows on Mobile from MS.
  • Yeah I honestly don't want full Windows 10 on ARM on my l950. I would like a better continuum, but I'll just wait for better hardware when it does come out in a few years.
  • Yeah. And, we're going to have to wait... Our current devices aren't gonna last forever, so It's gonna be "ok" hardware with a nasty looking OS, or terrific hardware with a boring looking OS. Take your pick for now.... All I know is that a potential Surface Phone could give us back what we had with Lumia devices.. Beautiful hardware, with a beautiful OS.... Until then I have to find the most exclusive Android device to hold me over😣😣😣
    Can't believe I just said that. Lol
  • I am stopped hoping from Microsoft their mobile first cloud first theory.
  • I have a 640 and have been feeling like the fifth wheel until now. Now I feel like the old spare in the trunk with a flat.
  • I got my 640 for $50 a few years ago on a Christmas sale. It's a decent phone for what it is but you do know it would freeze up if it ever tried to emulate a desktop OS. Start saving your money for a new phone.
  • I agree, but when I need desktop power, I use a desktop, or at least a laptop with a decent size display. Do I really need that much power on a six inch screen? The current suite of Office apps on mobile is quite good, just missing a little of the functionality I enjoy on the desktop. The new incarnation of "mobile" would need to be a game changer for me to spend the cost of an iPhone when so much was made available for the cost of one month of service.
  • You are right when it comes to MS the only things you can do is either stop buying from them or accept that you, as a customer, count less than zero to them. You are in this second category, happy to be f* from behind each time and asking for more :-D
  • I see no evidence that anything substantial will happen with 950. I mean, UWP exists and those phones will continue to run UWP, but the OS won't be advanced outside of bug fixes and stability. Honestly, no one has a clear idea what MS's mobile plans are these days.
  • But they do have a mobile plan.
  • allegedly.
  • "But they do have a mobile plan." allegedly.
  • Only Jason Ward has a mobile plan for them and sells it as their plan
  • Sure they do.  Nadella's plan for mobile is to simply let it die.  He won't kill it per say, but he will let it wither and slowly, painfully die -- taking those of us believers that are still on the product.  It isn't cloud first, so he has no real interest.  If I had to guess, he probably sees this as one of Steve's follies and doesn't really want to continue to deal with it.  That has been pretty obvious ever since he took over.  Despite having a superior product, all we get is that he talks a good game, says what he thinks people want to hear, and has NEVER backed it up with actions.  The only hope that mobile has at Microsoft is a change at the very top.
  • The reality is that those devices are old.. Even if WM was a thing, and had 20% market share, we can't expect for MS to support them forever... Who in the world would expect MS to support a 3 year old device with future software that's yet to be released?
  • wow rodneyej, pragmatic and realistic! I fear your levelheadedness is frightening some of the keyboard warriors here.
  • I see this statement as truth. All things must pass. Nothing lasts forever.
  • True, but it's not like they have any new devices. It shouldn't be difficult for them to keep supporting the hardware that is out there since that's all there is. It's not like android with thousands of different phone models.
  • Well, they will support it, just not with their newest technology.
  • Most of all MS
  • My biggest issue with MS's current "feature2" strategy is not that it won't receive new features, or cshell or continuum updates, but that W10M loses compatibility in terms of new API's that are part of RS3. It essentially breaks "one core" & "one Windows". As such, MS simply cannot release feature2 as if it were RS3 for mobile, because in terms of API's it will not be in sync with big Windows. Even RS2 did not contain anything relevant for mobile, but at least we got all the fluent design stuff. And wasn't that always the advantage of "one Windows"? MS didn't need to do any special for mobile: it would simply get it all "for free" from development done for regular Windows. This is why I don't "get" this feature2 stuff. It makes things more complicated by creating multiple Windows versions. And this in a time where there's supposed to be more and more convergeance between the different editions.  
  • "So the experience (WoA) is a desktop PC experience, it's not a phone-like experience. For phone-like experiences on ARM, we have Windows 10 Mobile"
    What is that supposed to mean?. The we've w10m sound weird knowing all of us the bad condition the whole system is. No phones, no services, no good solutions to issues, no nothing.
  • that's a much better question. what did he mean by that? so far everybody assumed (key word) MS would merge w10m and w10 going forward. is he talking current status? are they still working on bringing w10m up to par with w10 (they did mention that a few months ago) and will it be a special version just like w10 iot? Whatever they have up their sleves it better be that good to justify this secrecy that has brough so much ill will to MS from its windows phone fans  
  • Whatever the strategy turns out to be it requires something Microsoft has been unwilling/unable to do with mobile....Back it 100% with full commitment that everyone can see, that means throwing money, BIG money at marketing, branding, opening stores globally and taking the fight to where the fight is rather than standing around the ring watching, waiting and acting half heartedly.
  • You mean the 2 year old discontinued phone isn't going to be getting a massive new update....? I don't understand the commenters here obsessing over their 2,3,4 year old phones not being completely remade into new devices.
  • Stability my butt. :( They have made the bluetooth stack nearly useless which seems to be almost intentional. They could have at least left that alone in a working state.
  • Windows phones currently will still receive feature2 builds and maybe a last Creators Update but that is about it.
    .
    Now MSFT will expect any one going forward to buy a new device.
  • Exactly, because the newer chips gives it some headroom for updates something the older chips just not going to swallow. ARMs processors move up the power threshold gives Microsoft something to work with and starting with this upcoming Snapdragon which Samsung is presently using going forth it's all about being capable of receiving updates which will become the market driver for more powerful devices.
  • Going forward people are buying new devices... Apple and android.
  • The nokia 8 seems to have good specs
  • @robert1312: And not much else.
  • No problem.  Everybody is free to choose.  Microsoft is not forcing you to buy their phones if you don't like it.  The truth is people have to wake up.  Windows phone/mobile failed because they made the damn thing run smoothly on low end devices and low end devices do not generate money. Low end devices do not generate enthusiam and aspiration, people buy phones because of specs.  Android is slow as a snail on low end hardware that's why they push people to high end specs, that is their strategy. 
  • The same hope that every phone has when it's left for dead...i.e.  1020 when w10m was released...NONE!  
  • Woooo hoooo fanboy tears truth downvotes!
  • If the new mobile device to be released in 2018, it will probably use SD845 which would use 7nm process chip.  Besides the performane boost, it focuses on supporting MR.  LG G7 will use that procssor.
  • what's MR?  
  • Mixed Reality (includes AR, VR, and ER)
  • It would help immensely if Microsoft stopped showing off the hardware we have in our hands today running software they plan to release later, and then as the release date nears saying nope. Spend a few thousand on a modelless prototype device to demo on, and spare the PR nightmare that just pisses off the customers.
  • I agree because why show us it running on X3, or why have another vid showing it running on a 950, then for the clowns at MS to come out and say it's not for this or that. What I would love is for them to just shutdown this mobile crap and let us bite the bullet and move on from their crap. These same editors and MS execs don't even use their own phones. Use all the rivals' devices and then spit on us with all the vomit they tell us. The very same editors of this website say they own a 950 series, X3 or Idol 4S but do they use them only? NOOOO they don't it's just to say they update them and use another as daily driver. You honestly think that if the same Nadella used a 950 only that it would be in its current state?
  • The average consumer doesn't see, or care about this.. MS doesn't have time to care about what 1/100th of 1% of what some fans see at Build.
  • The average consumer won't buy a Windows/Surface Phone. They don't care what ARM is. All they care for is a good camera, the newest apps and a trusted brand.
  • Isn't that an average "iPhone" customer?
  • So how.......does that help the idea of a MS branded smartphone if they make one.
  • No, but then the average consumer isn't writing articles or commenting on them either. But these are the people the average consumer will get advice from.
  • Developers prototype things on existing hardware because they have to; the real hardware often doesn't exist yet. As the real hardware becomes more available, they add features to the software that won't work on the prototype hardware. The "alpha" version of the Xbox 360 was a PowerPC Mac with an ATI graphics card. By your logic, that means that Microsoft should have made all Xbox 360 games run on Mac.
  • These days, no matter what the platform, there is absolutely no reason to run the demo on branded hardware. Microsoft has, on multiple occasions, done exactly this. And of course, as new features are added the software no longer works on prototype hardware. More reason to strip the branding and NOT hold up a [insert model] and declare, "Look, we are running this on a [model] today!" You would think they would learn by now that people take that to mean the new software will run on a phone of [model]'s capability. BTW, your PowerMac-Xbox analogy falls flat, because it was obvious the plan was to build a console--a totally different platform altogether.
  • Quit using historical facts as proof of an argument Daniel. You should know by now that has no place in our current world. =P
  • Was that Dan or noirsoft?
  • Which, as was pointed out, means none of the current phones will run it. Fine by me. Something new would be nice.  Still waiting for that nice 8" LTE connected WIn10 tablet with pen & onenote.  (any of the atom-based ones have iffy battery life and performance is ... iffy.)  
  • If the market share of Windows phones had increased when the Lumia 950, 950XL, HP Elite x3, and Alcatel IDOL 4 Pro were released then MSFT would have more reason to support it.
    .
    Today Windows phones account for less than 1% market share so it's pointless to spend any resources on existing devices
  • I think that they could have grown to double digits with the 640 line outside of the US if they would have kept the Nokia developers to expand the Lumia apps.
  • They could have also included radios supporting all frequencies. The added cost would have been minimal and allowed Microsoft to differentiate itself by advertising the devices as "ready when your carrier is." Advertising to compensate for a weakness under your control is always going to have a huge price tag, and not just monetarily.
  • by the latest data, 0.1% to be more precise.
  • That's not a fair assessment. NONE of those phones work on Verizon.
  • How is his excuse B.S.? Belfiore clearly states that they can support some of the existing hardware, but they chose not to because developing for different chipsets needs more resources, adds more delay, he did not say they can't do that. Windows Phone and Windows Mobile, if you see from the start, has always supported only specific chipsets: L920/820/925/928/1020 had the same chipset, L720/620/520 had the same chipset. Next Gen, L1520/930/Icon shared the same chipset, L830/730/630/638/640/640XL had the same chipset, L430/530/540 had the same chipset - only the 950 series and L650 and L550 broke that trend. They always stuck to a certain chipset for which the OS was made compatible, and hence we did not see refreshes or model variants. A L830 should have arguably had a 600 series chipset, but they chose a 400 series instead because that's what most of their handsets had. Even the 640 that came after did not get an upgraded chipset. It was always a bit apparent to me that Microsoft's OS development might be a limitation. While I am not pleased with the response, I wouldn't call it B.S. - it's like saying the L920 and L820 or even L620 can run Windows 10 Mobile - but doesn't mean it's a good experience all the time. It has it's limitations. Also, there are literally only 2 handsets with SD820, 1 with SD810, and may be a couple with SD808 - all that will be 1.5-2 years next year, so them not wanting to develop for a small segment is understandable.
  • At last, a reasonable post that includes facts and not condemnation. I am not an expert but you apply strong arguments so you gain my vote :-) . All you said is more than reasonable. An unhappy but ok L950 owner...Guys, it's just a device, ok I don't like android either or ios but if MS is looking on something else life will be the same. It's frustrating doing or being mysteriously so consumer hostile but we all have a choice. As a fact if a full w10m launcher show up on play store, converting as possible an android phone to a really good w10m experience (dark mode, contacts, caller etc) I would be more than happy as an ALTERNATIVE. And then I would have the time to wait for what MS will present in the future...
  • Well, they COULD do it, they don't want to. That's the point.
  • Yes, no current WP device has a SD830-35.... I don't understand why anyone would have every questioned this in the first place.
  • plus if Windows phones had increased market share to around 10% in the last 2 years then MSFT would be encouraged to at least get the HP Elite x3 and Alcatel IDOL 4 Pro on to the new W10 on ARM thing.
  • Are you really so dense to understand that people are being told to wait a further 2 yrs for a device that they may not be able to willingly afford with the expectation that it does what your current device does but better. You accept it'll be a possible 4 yrs that MS released a device that can make calls.
  • Lol.. These guys don't understand that it's a hardware limitation.. Could they get it to work on the 950 with all there might? Probably so, and with severe limitations, and instability. Is it worth their efforts for that? No, so we just accept the fact that it doesn't work, and we accept it happily.
  • My phone could hardware wise, but it's not a Windows phone... Amusing, no?
  • I don't see how its amusing when technically no new WP devices have released in years, and at the time the 950 series of devices were released the SD835 wasn't available.. Maybe if a WP device was released recently, and it didn't have the latest chipsets, that might be pathetic, but I don't understand how a 950 with a SD810 is amusing... Are you applauding your device because the progression of technology doesn't stop for Microsoft?🤔🤔🤔
    What's your point?
  • My point is that the progression of technology has stopped for Microsoft... No current Windows phones will run the next version of Windows for phones... And as far as I'm aware, there haven't even been any announced. The only phones on the market capable of running this software at the moment are Android phones... I find that amusing. Also, the 950s are getting on. But the X3, the device mentioned in the comment I replied to, is less than a year old.
  • Oh. Sorry. I see. Yes, I agree... Anyone who bought an X3 should've been aware of the risk involved... But, we can see now that even MS STILL acknowledges WM as thier current mobile OS for phones.. Reading into that should give any WM "fan" (not sure if we're even fans, at this point) a sliver of "hope" for future support.
  • Cue Window Central article called "You shouldn't buy the HP Elite x3 either, in fact, throw your current W10M phone to the garbage right now"
  • Wow. You people not even know what you read here. Full Windows 10 on ARM is not next version of Windows for phones. It is for desktop. No one said anything about next version of Windows mobile. They said that Windows 10 on ARM does not coming to current devices, because devices with appropriate hardware does not exist yet.
  • Finally someone who read the same quote from Belfiore that I did. I don't see any statement committing to a mobile phone device with Windows for ARM. I read Desktop many times. Nothing about new phones.
  • That IS what JB was reffering to: Desktops, tablets, NOT PHONES, but you can't explain anything to a blind fanboy like many are around here, so don't bother trying to.
  • Exactly what i read too
  • Funny, They (Microsoft) partnered Xiaomi (Chinese Mobile Manufacturer) building Windows Roms for Xiaomi devices originally designed for use with Android. Why this is interesting. In China, iPhone is on a decline in China, while Xiaomi phones are increasingly gaining market share within China.  Xiaomi are highly sort after phones in China.  Check out Xiaomi Mi Mix & Mi Mix 2. Beautiful high end phones. One has to ask. Why is a fast grower bother to partner with a dead OS?  Whats to be gained? If I remember correctly, They've already got a test group of Xiaomi lower phones in the hands of testers. I hate Android. But I would love a Xiaomi Mi Mix, especially Mi Mix 2 with windows  
  • Your right. No, it's not amusing.
  • I don't really care if it comes to my 950 or not. I'll be happy to spend the money on a new device...just freaking make it already! Full Windows 10 exists, SD 835 exists, CShell exists. This is ridiculous
  • I am still wondering if we are going to see a windows 10/mobile all in one device. Continnum for me is the key. when in your had so to speak it works abit like mimo10 no but when in a dock it then becomes a fully working os. Im sure the power of the arm processors can do this with enough ram?
  • The only Windows Mobile devices with any hope of running it were released over a year ago and their ARM processors are not going to cut it for whatever Windows 10 on ARM expects. When Microsoft announced Windows 10 on ARM, they showed it on a Snapdragon 835 because it had support for the x86 emulation layer in-hardware, which is something that no phone on the market has, even ignoring Windows Mobile-based phones. Microsoft is -- hopefully -- not going to make the same mistake that they did with Windows running on ARM devices in the past: allowing terribly slow ARM processors to be part of the mix, like the Surface RT.
  • Sd835 can't emulate x86 directly as far as intel is concerned.
    And WoA has run on the X3.
  • What are you talking about?
  • Sd835 can't emulate x86 directly as far as intel is concerned.
    That was intel just flexing a bit, but from what I have heard MS is not concerned over their model for WoA.
  • What do y'all mean by "can't emulate it directly"????
  • https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/06/09/intel_sends_arm_a_shot_across_bow/
  • You can be sure that MSFT would not allow support for the 400 or 600 series Qualcomm SoC even if that means flooding the market with cheap devices. Not a good idea at all.
    .
    They will most likely stay with the 800 series SoC like the SD835 that everyone is talking about.
  • The latest 600 series processors are as powerful as or possibly a little better than the SD808/SD810 found on the 950s, and considering the fact that continuum was supported on one of the older 600 series chipset (I forget which one), I would think that Microsoft, with their latest iteration of Windows Mobile, try and get as many handsets as possible running continuum, mid and top tier both. Because, their intention for continuum, UWP was to become people's computer, not needing another device, and they can't do that with only top end hardware. Also, wider reach for these would mean chances for more apps/developers coming to the platform. This is of course conjecture on my part, but I would hope that is what Microsoft is thinking.
  • And to add, charging top dollar for a weak processor simply was not a value buy at all yet some bought into it.
  • Who in the world ever questioned that WOA would be able to run on existing hardware? Microsoft said months ago that the SD830 was the first chip to be able to run WOA.... Microsoft confirmed this a long time ago, and I don't think anyone in their right mind should be surprised by this article.
  • So called Windows phone fans creating suspicions and rumors.
  • Yes I give no credits to Microsoft 
  • Are you surprised? And if so... Why? All the evidence has pointed here for two years, to say nothing of the previous iterations. This is why Microsoft will never find success in phones: they cannot stop themselves from alienating and ******* off consumers.
  • No consumers bought Windows phones. That is why they can cut off support so easily. If these devices has sold well, Microsoft would have found a path for them.
  • Congratulations! You win the coveted Dumb Comment of the Day award. Since its introduction in 2010, consumers bought over 100 million Windows phones. No, that's not even close to Android or iPhone, but it's a hell of a lot more than none.   Nitwit.
  • Since 2010...that means an average of 4 million per quarter. The amount that Android was selling in a few days. That is basically none, especially for a company as big as Microsoft. Literally, it took Microsoft several years to sell the number of devices Android moves in a month. They could afford to cut these insignificant numbers off. If they were significant, they would have kept development going.
  • Your math is flawed because you are counting Nadela's reign of terror. Since that idiot took over, there has been virtually zero development on Windows Phone and no significant devices have been released whatsoever. There has been zero marketing. Windows Phone was doing significantly better wild Ballmer was still CEO.
  • Was it? It was not doing well at all, even when Microsoft was marketing heavily and had Nokia behind them helping. Your 100 million total sales proves that. That is a drop in the bucket. Android does 300 million a quarter and iPhone 75 million. Just face it. Windows phones were not good and the vast majority didn't like them. The Nokia name and dirt cheap devices generated the feeble sales they did have.
  • The vast majority does not care. As long as they phone works and the apps they want are there, that is what they will use. If you were to ask the vast majority was the specs on their phone are, they would not have a clue. Everyone that actually had a good Windows Phone, meaning one with at least 16GB of space, were very happy with them. That was then though and this is now: Windows Mobile is essentially dead. :(
  • They were so happy with them they switched to Android or iPhone as soon as possible.
  • Really dude? Is that all you prefer to do is argue? You purposely choose to ignore the rest of my post but hey, nice try. :D
  • Wasn't anything to comment on. It is a tough argument to say people liked Windows phones. Sales certainly didn't support that argument. The few people who bought them, didn't turn into repeat buyers. They certainly didn't upgrade to the high end Windows phones.
  • If MS had turned out a stable version of W10M I would have gladly bought a new Windows Phone. Yes sir!
  • Sales aren't the metric of whether Windows phone owners liked their devices, customer satisfaction surveys are. And those were always overwhelmingly positive until the Windows 10 Mobile debacle. One man alone is responsible for the death of Windows Phone: Satya Nadella.
  • Bleached of cares about making his pet point on every article possible. He is really the only one who sees sales as "proof" that customers don't like the OS. Everyone can say it's apps, but he'll call apps a symptom, not the cause. His only source? He circles back round to sales and says "consumers have spoken", even though he has no data to support what these consumers were speaking about. It's literally his hobby to bash because Windows isn't Android. You're better off just ignoring him than being into an argument based on his opinion packaged as fact.
  • Is there any other metric that would be better for measuring the popularity of any product? We live in a capitalist society, sales IS the metric. If people liked Windows phones, they would have bought them and told their friends and their friends would have bought them. Never breaking 3% market share proves this never happened in any decent numbers. Apps weren't the issue. WP7 arguably had better apps and games than Android at the time. Even Netflix was on WP first. Apps certainly weren't the cause. Android also had an app gap, but people bought them anyways.
  • Sales isn't a descriptive metric, it's an overall measure of whether something is selling or not. What you do is insert your own perspective that sales are low because Windows isn't customizable like Android. You have ZERO data besides your own bias to support that.  The VAST majority of chatter is that Windows on phones doesn't sell because of the lack of apps and that started with Google ignoring the platform out of the gate.   "Folks just don't like Windows" is agenda speak because there's no supported logic behind it.  Capitalism is more complex than you give it credit for. It's not just about what people "like".  People are trying to get things done.  I know someone who had a Windows phone and left because Weight Watchers wasn't on there. She didn't give a crap about UI or anything else. She had things that needed to get done and the application inventory wasn't doing that for her.  I could repeat that story over and over again, but you don't care to consider anything, but the pre-determined "truth" that exists in your agenda of bashing Windows because it's not like Android.  Now you're inserting a bit of revisionist history.  Netflix was not a main reason that people chose one phone over another.  Bandwidth at the time wasn't great for Netflix style video.  YouTube video was more relevant.  People used Google Search.  GMail was KILLING Hotmail/Outlook.com.  Google stopped developing the popular Waze on Windows.  The bread and butter apps...Android had them because they were made by Google.  Android, by no measure had the app gap that Windows has had.  To say so, is again...serving up agenda based reality distortion.  Also, Android pushed in with a HUGE marketing budget matched with Verizon while iPhone was still an AT&T exclusive. AGAIN...this stuff is more complex than "if sales numbers are low, that's just cuz folks don't like Windows", but hey...you've got an obsessed perspective that you're going to push, no matter what.  
  • Ok, how about "people didn't seem to like Windows Phone as much as Android or iPhone". Is that better? Customizability did seem to be a big reason Android grew faster. Manufacturers put more effort into Android as it actually allowed manufacturers to put effort in. There really wasn't anything you could do with Windows Phone as a manufacturer. Maybe add some apps. Microsoft controlled everything, even hardware was heavily mandated. Customizability by manufacturers definitely contributed. I also think that the Windows name held the platform back. I think they should have used the XBox brand or something more hip. Windows certainly wasn't hip in 2010. Microsoft's carrier hostile features also couldn't have helped. Just allowing customers to delete all apps wasn't going to make carriers happy. They certainly played a part in suppressing Windows phone. As you mentioned, Microsoft's lack of popular services also hindered Windows phones. You don't want to be reliant on your competitor supporting your platform. Especially a competitor that you openly mock. Microsoft "Scroogled" themselves there.
  • Actually, every single person I knew who bought Windows Phone 7 or 8 devices stayed in the ecosystem until Windows 10 Mobile proved to be an unmitigated trainwreck. And that's HUNDREDS of people. Certainly, still anecdotal evidence, but I've never once met a Windows Phone user who was unhappy with anything but the app selection.
  • The 100 million was merely a ballpark estimate based on the last time I saw full year stats, which was probably sometime in 2016. Lifetime sales were much higher than 100 million units. Windows Phones from 7 to 8.1 were excellent, and owners loved them. The ONLY significant complaint was the lack of apps, but before Nadella took over, even that was changing as more and more apps kept coming to the platform. Bottom line: your statements are childish conjecture based on nothing but fanboyism and trolling.
  • Kinda like "Groundhog's Day" but not quite.
  • They might as well say what they really mean.....windows 10 on arm will not be coming to a phone device/mobile device.
  • They did say that. It's basically a direct quote in the article.
  • Typical of Microsoft not supporting the loyal fans who went out on a limb to support Windows phone. I switched to the Galaxy S8 when it came out. No more Windows phone for me.
  • By the time it would be available, there will probably be about 32 of us left that even have a Windows phone.  That would be a really bad return on their investment.
  • Disappointing news from Nadella's Microsoft? Say it ain't so...
  • Disappointing how?... Are you admitting that you didn't already know this? What Windows device has an SD30-35?
  • At least it is news. 
  • I think that there's a bit of news in his statement, but it's not about WOA running on a 950... But, I will meet you halfway by saying it's old news🙂
  • This is a good thing. If you really expected Windows on ARM to run on your existing phones, the newest of which are last-generation at best, you were either fooling yourself or expecting too little software change. Significantly different and more powerful software would, in all likelihood, require more powerful hardware. Most important of all, this is Microsoft communicating with us guys. Communicating. As in, speaking actual words out loud to other people. Committing to something. This is important. This is almost historic.
  • We can all breathe a sigh of relief and say thank you Joe. At least we finally have something besides speculation to go off of. I'm using Android now for three years since I left Windows Phone and I'm still waiting for the mythical Surface Phone to be released. Messed around and fell in love with Android's fluidity and customizations.
  • Microsoft need to give up on phones.
  • They did when they hired Nadella as CEO, we just didn't see it so clearly at the time.
  • This has been a thing much longer than Nadella, their inability to stick with an operating system and allow it to grow just shows incompetence. That being said, at least this time around people knew well in advance.
  • @Sin Ogaris; I don't understand your comment. CE was not capable of advancing especially in order to keep pace with Android was a major misstep yet it brought Microsoft though it took a while into the place now where the engineering done on one OS will allow it to run on an ARM/Intel/AMD which covers practically the full range of processors. There is no way with all that progress you can label it as incompetence which is one heck of a feat to pull off.
  • If the operating system they had couldn't advance to the same level as it's competitors then that shows a lack of forethought on their part. Also Microsoft are assuming that this "one vision" is actually the answer, if it isn't expect another major OS change.
  • We didn't see it because nadella said MOBILE FIRST, CLOUD FIRST. We all believed that mobile first meant windows 10 mobile first but it wasn't at all. Today Joe Belfiore clearly said to all owners of 950/XL that they can throw their device to the garbage. It won't be upgraded. GAME OVER!
  • Nadella also said in 2015, "I am committed to our first-party devices including phones.". So either his plans failed or he lied, take your pick.
  • No, you will still be able to use the current devices for years. Stop exaggerating.
  • I guess 2 is plural. Had my 950XL for 1 of those as of this month, so I'm half way there.
  • at that point, Intel was planning to make a ARM competitor that will be as low cost as the SD801 and 808 but also be as powerful as the Core i5.
    .
    Their plans obviously failed and has caused us all headaches.
  • @RohanRomQM; You make a factual point. It was a major setback for Microsoft as well when Intel took the bow and forced another strategy change as well that caused further delay. But this time thanks to Qualcomm we will see how this develops in the near future.
  • How is that a lie or failure?  It's simply not manifested yet.  There's a distinction.  In many ways, not continuing to produce also-ran devices, of which I think most of us acknowledge the 950s are (and I own one so I don't say this out of school), he is committed to first-party devices.  My pick is that in a world that seems to expect MSFT to turn the Queen Mary around on a dime with regard to mobile - we're on the wrong body of water, I'll give them time to get on the right side of that.  I might be alone by the time that happens but I'd rather a real Surface Phone rather than a 958XL.
  • He simply lied, to avoid stock market issues. Most of the things MS said since Nadella came, were and are lies.
  • He LIED!!! Look at his chin now which has grown longer than 2 years ago. Even longer than Pinocchio's nose.
  • No that's what you're saying. This doesn't mean your device will magically stop working all of a sudden.
  • Joe Belfiore did not said anything about Windows mobile upgrade. Windows 10 on ARM is desktop OS. What are you not understand? It's not next Windows mobile OS at all. That is going to be CShell. We already saw first bild of CShell. And Joe Belfiore not said anything about that. So stop lying. Nothing was said about next Windows mobile OS version. And we dont know anything yet about supported devices. But I think they must bring it at least to x50 series, at least as insider bilds.
  • Composable Shell is a feature of full Windows, not the new mobile platform. We haven't seen the new mobile platform. It isn't going to look like Windows phone either. If they want to be successful, it cannot be tied to Windows at all. https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/117153/microsofts-looking-reboot-mobile-...
  • Says you...as usual.
  • I saw it very clearly.   People here just have rose colored windows blinds on.  Living in denial!
  • Windows is going to die if they can't unify the platform across devices. Android accomplished this several years ago.
  • Oh yeah? Where are the laptops running android?
  • They exist, they just aren't common.
  • Go to Amazon or any other shopping site and search for "Chromebook". He's wrong about the years ago thing, but they're definitely unifying the platforms. In reality, Apple are the only ones that have actually cracked this "vertical integration" thing already.
  • You know that chromebooks are powered with Chrome OS ?
  • iOS and OSX are separate platforms and the apps are not interchangeable (UWP). If anything Apple has the opposite issue from MS, their desktop share is small (and shrinking) so they spend less on integrating it than bypassing it (all you need is an iPad).
  • And servers :)
  • Servers will stay on SUSE, Red Hat, or Windows.
  • Chrome OS is close enough at this point.  They work great with android phone/tablet devices....and most of the new Chromebooks, run android apps.  So THEY ARE HERE.  Unlike the phones running windows successfully....
  • They DEFINITELY do not! Surface device coming will be game changing. 100% Android and Apple keep regurgitating the same poo. Microsoft is the only company with any guts, and Nadella is doing very well.
  • yeah yeah same old "fans" creating useless rumors.
  • I'm going to let you in on a little secret, the Surface Phone? It's still going to just be a phone. It might look fancy but the long and short of it will be that it functions like the phone you have now.
  • Normally that is going to be a phone. But being a phone is going to be only one of its functions. :)
  • Aden.....layoff the microsoft Kool-aid there buddy.....it seems to be spiked with idiot serum...
  • Not another reboot. Come on. The Windows store can grow. That's all Windows 10 mobile needs.
  • Windows Store needs the arrival and/or return of some big developers !
    When that's made, consumers only have the need to be able to choose on a few (or even better : several) new phones and Windows Mobile will once again rise and be at the second place (just in front of iOS devices) in several European market just like 2-3 years ago.
  • Unless and until there is a major change to UWP apps that doesn't port back to W10M, a popular WOA and UWP would continue to have app benefits for W10M devices. It's not immediately a "reboot" in that sense at all.
  • How do you expect this to happen? Developers aren't going to come back to Windows Phone/Windows 10 Mobile in its current form. Not in large enough numbers to make a difference anyway. And why should they? No one is buying Windows Phones anymore. They can't make money of apps that are only available to 0.1% of smartphone owners. This reboot is a necessary evil. Microsoft has to come up with something new and compelling, which they seem to be doing. The smartphone as we know it is dying. There isn't much room for growth, if any. That's why they (Microsoft) have been talking about abandoning this generation of technology and looking forward the future. What you're asking for is akin to wanting smartphone features on a flip phone from 2007.
  • Called this from the "retrenchment" announcment.  sad Trombone!  wah wah wahhhhhhhH!
  • get back under your bridge. sad little iSheep! baa baa baaaaaaaH!
  • As I type this from my DELL ******* WINDOWS LAPTOP.....moron!   No Isheep here idiot.   I chose to use an iphone because microsoft decided that they did not want to support windows mobile anymore....a long time ago.....Iphone has the best Microsoft apps available in mobile....maybe stop being such a twaty little fanboy ***** bonze and open your eyes....seems you have windows blinds over them...
  • Seriously after all the BS you come out with about MS and Win10, you expect anyone to actually believe you have a DELL? Do you keep it in the padded room with your 40 pairs of knock-off Raybanz?
    You're the ****** that continually said he would never touch Win10 as MS use it to farm all your personal data and then sell it to the highest bidder. Funny how you suddenly become converted once the editor politely suggested that you and your little iDroid playground chums go play in traffic....
    And it just so happened that you chose the exact model he was reviewing that week. What an amazing coincidence!
  • Still jealous about my sunglasses?  really...you need to get out more....I don't run Droids as my main device...you are so jealous bonze...please...relax,  get out for a walk and calm down...WAAAAHHHH you F U CKING crybaby!   Typed from my DELL 13" 2 in 1!!!!!!! MORON.   I love the fact that you are jealous about my sunglass collection...better not start about my bicycles,  or motorcycles and ATVs then!  or my cars.  Jesus your head would explode.  WELL im going to venture off to my screening room to watch some movies with my 10 year old.....btw,  who is a hell of alot more mature than you are bonze...enjoy that pathetic life you live while stewing about others poessisons!!!!   ****...almost forgot my snowboards,  guitars and amps...etc....since we are talking (whining) about posessions....hmmmm...what about my house in florida?  that piss you off more?  Well...going there for a 3 week vacation soon....going to be great,  lying around with my family in the sun while you are in your mommy's basement ******** about what other peoplde have......got get a ******** or something.!  
  • Wow, I hit a big nerve there Stevie baby.
    You can dish it out, but as soon as someone questions your BS you fly of on one.
    I'll leave you to sit in your dribbling mess as you obviously have reality issues.
    Kids today....
  • NO BS here....you are just proving again and again,  you are a jealous whiny ****!  thats all!  enjoy the day....
  • Oh...BTW bonze,  YOU were the one to start bringing up possesions etc....NOT me....shows your childish immature nature.  Take care,  I think I hear your mommy calling you upstairs for your diaper change!
  • Steve... it's just a phone... The are A LOT of you guys that really need to get out more.
  • I get out plenty...and agree it's just a phone.  Im not the one whining about someone else's posessions etc. Like a little *****.   I DO use microsoft OS almost exclusively and their services.  This **** comes in and starts rippin' me....He's getting it back as good as he gave it....I can't help he's a whiny little fangirl how can't handle a bit of the ole truth serum....
  • You really are a jackass
  • So all those dreams about WoA on phones were for naught, how sad....... /s But seriously, wasnt this apparent from the beginning? This was always going to be about PC's plus Nadella's Microsoft has never been about phones yet the fanboy train just jumped on the assumption that this would be the next step for phones. Poor sheep.
  • You don't have to be so belittling. These are just phones, stop acting like any of this is real life. It's not.
  • The potential for the Windows Store dying and developers giving up on Windows could very easily become real life if MS doesn't get it's act together. Perhaps MS are so satisfied with the Azure biz that they don't care, but Windows is starting to look like it's in a death spiral. Edge and Skype are facing unprecedented troubles as well. The software part of microSOFT isn't performing well lately.
  • Windows was alive before the "store", the store dying will have no impact on Windows where its valued most, the Enterprise. For consumers, Windows died when their smartphones became their main device so nothing changes there.
  • Actually, for consumers the 2-1 pc...
  • IBM and Blackberry both thought they could remain relevant and competitive by just serving the enterprise customer. Good luck with that strategy. Microsoft will become a server company only and Windows will become irrelevant in a decade if Microsoft doesn't attract developers and mobile consumers. Google is devouring the computer industry, MS better wake up before they realize they're the new IBM.
  • Totally agree Dan. It's only a phone.....
  • See Daniel,  thats where you are wrong.  MOST of the people here, this IS life.  They have nothing else...just their devices.  Most have no significant other,  no family etc.   Last week I spent the entire week teaching my son how to ride bicycle.   It is awesome.  These are just devices....I make fun at times,  get a little heated,  but at the end of the day i KNOW this is just a "THING".   Most times, I am having fun with the others here.....
  • If the plan is to actually create yet another Windows Mobile reboot for ARM that is a separate OS than WoA then this company is absolutely worthless. They are essentially redoing the 2012 plan with Windows RT and Windows Phone (2 separate ARM versions of Windows). I have zero patience for what Belfiore is describing. We did this mistake already, you already failed with this dumb plan. Either figure out how to unify the platform and make ARM 100% equal to x86 or just admit to your now obvious incompetence and quit the company. Why do Belfiore and Myerson get to fail over and over and over again and they never get fired?
  • cool8man, I think Joe is referring to the current version of W10M is what will be available for "phones." Window on Arm will be for any upcoming Ultimate Mobile Device (UMD). MS's retrenchment was them saying that W10M is not going to make it in the consumer realm, and something better is need in the enterprise/business sector. The something different will be a UMD that will probably use Windows on ARM. I see no reason that a more powerful true x86 based UMDs could not coexist with ARM based UMDs.
  • What Microsoft fails to see is that if WinMo is enterprise only it will fail, and no one will care. Why? Because TODAY the enterprise is fully vested in supporting BYOD iOS and Android devices. Further, this year mobile device management software is finally capable of making even iOS feasible for use as a secure multiuser enterprise platform. My employer has 70K employees, and I am one of fewer than 50 still running a phone with Windows. I would not be surprised if mobile device management nixes support for Windows phones before I replace my 950XL. At that point why would I bother with even the fabled Surface Phone, even if the thing could drive my car or fill my world with unicorn and kitten holograms? Of course, the consumer market is so burned on WinMo now, that it seems very unlikely a phone is is the works, and even if there was that it would even have a chance at success. What Microsoft MUST do is get consumer HoloLens on shelves ASAP. Apple and Alphabet are poised to eat Microsoft's holographic lunch, just like they did with mobile.
  • "Enterprise only = fail" I agree 100%. Microsoft needs to learn how to be cool and fun.
  • Windows 10 Mobile is dead. Microsoft is rumored to be rebooting it with another attempt that is separate from WoA. https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/117153/microsofts-looking-reboot-mobile-... In the comments Paul Thurrott claims this is something new, not Windows on ARM.
  • All I see is confusion and frustration. This is 100% Microsoft's fault. We are literally guessing what and if there is a future for our platform and our devices. How do they expect to attract and maintain developers or consumers when they behave in this way?
  • Some of it was not Microsoft. Intel failed to deliver which cause another strategy change and extended delays. Had the Atom chip worked Intel would be in one heck of a drivers seat with the Windows OS. The Atom for small devices up to the i3,i5,i7 for pcs, etc.
  • Theefman, you're using "sheep" as a pejorative here, nothing more, nothing less. Because what you're describing aren't people who do what they're told and like what they're told. You're not describing sheep, you're describing people who want something to be one way that doesn't turn out to be that way, yet they keep having hope that next time it will work out. I don't know what you'd call them, but sheep isn't it.
  • Fanboys and Sheep?
    What do you expect people to believe when they see Microsoft's recent (like within the last 6 months recent) patents about "foldable phones", or "phones with 2 screens that come together to form a tablet" , followed by a patent for "a HoloLens-like tech that creates an illusion that hides the Seam where two screens come together; illustrated by a phone like device with 2 screens coming together to make a tablet with no visible seam"
    In all fairness, seeing all these patents, hearing about CShell and Windows on ARM, I, like many others here, find it hard to believe that Microsoft is completely done with phones.
    Look, the patents alone tell us everything we need to know; and that is: Microsoft is still exploring their options with phones. Edit: And recognizing patents doesn't make one a Sheep. It makes them insightful of what may be coming.
  • Not to forget the WC articles endlessly fanning that fire of ultimate mobile device, the mount rushmore of microsoft LOL
  • And why am I not surprised!
  • There's no surprise that the Windows Mobile / Windows Phones from two years ago aren't going to run it. By the time Windows 10 on ARM goes live, they'll all be out of support, let alone they won't have relevant hardware.
  • The Alcatel Idol Pro won't even be a year old and the X3 will not even be 2 years old. The X3 was like $900!
  • Sorry down vote u by mistake, I share yout feelings having paying a lot for a 950 xl and continuoum dock for a device that can work as a laptop. they should refund their customers 
  • Put full Windows 10 on the phone or just end Windows altogether because Google will figure out PCs and AR before Microsoft figures out phones. No reason why a Windows 10 tablet today can't enable phone calls and act exactly like a phone. His excuses are complete B.S. If Microsoft is really as incompetent as people like Belfiore are then Windows has a dismal future ahead. Windows on ARM will be a total failure if it can't even be used for pocket-sized devices.
  • And what exactly is the advantage of full Windows on a phone? Do you really think people will use their tablets as phones?
  • When displays are paper thin and fold and roll the distinction between "tablets" and "phones" will become irrelevant. I don't even think devices will be categorized in those terms anymore in 5+ years. Nobody calls the Samsung Galaxy Note a tablet, and when it eventually unfolds to double or triple the size it will still be a phone that can replace your tablet.
  • None of that exists today and so far is barely theoretical and as such isn't a valid reason for full Windows on a phone.
  • something which is demoed by multiple companies is not "theoretical." But by all means continue to bury your head in the sand. Samsung has literally said their foldable devices are expected for 2019. LG has signed contracts to deliver foldable screens to every major company in 2018.
  • theefman, full windows 10 on a tablet/phone would simplify the data anywhere model. I would use a tablet as a phone. (probably via BT headset.) For most people, voice calls on a mobile phone are secondary to the computer usage of a smart phone. I would love to use my laptop or desktop as a phone when I am working. It is inefficient when I read an email in outlook and need to manually dial a phone or cell phone. When I send an email and get a response back as a text on my phone, the thread is broken. It would be easier to coordinate and combine things if it was all on the same windows platform. That is my opinion and my priorities. Your are allowed your own opinion and priorities.  
  • That's a pretty good future and certainly possible with Voice-over-LTE coming soon. For now now I'm still a voice call over cellular since I have a cheap plan for that while large mobile data plans are still too expensive.
  • It is possible to use a computer or tablet with a Bluetooth device for phone calls.
  • if you think someone would replace their android or iphone with a tablet in their backpack linked to a BT headphone your are really delusional.What are you smoking?? :))
  • I think we need to remove the form factors from our mindset. We talk phones and we talk 4-7" screens. We now talking about Windows 10 on ARM (WoA), and we immediately flip to a 8-12" notebook/tablet scenario. Remember when phones started gettting cameras inbuilt? That's what I wanted, but a good camera. Later down the track I was virtually able to buy a camera (with excellent specs) that included phone capability (L1020, and I'm going to drop the 1520 and 950XL in this mix too). Now we have phones that can act like a PC and have all sorts of apps, so the next is a PC that can run all sorts of apps that can also be used as a phone (and still retain the similar formfactor as smartphones today). This is what I believe Nutty Nadella is alluding to.  A super smartphone if you will - a new category in design and use. That's just my opinion but the writing is on the wall or the keyboard is projecting on the table... :-)  
  • Hmmm.
  • I think all this app talk will be irrelevant. AI is going to be the new platform. No one wants more Windows, we want smarter devices and smarter apps, smarter services.
  • when will you fanboys understand that 99% of users do not need a tablet to make a phone call :))) they need a capable smartphone with APPS!!! with a decent platform!! pfff...
  • Yep.  make phone all is not important anymore.  but Which APPS?  how many app you installed yon your phone?  how many APPS you use regularly daily or hourly most frequently or essential?  data from march 2017, good play 280000,  apple store 2200000, windows store 669000.   do you use all those?  show us a number.   
  • "For phone-like experiences on ARM, we have Windows 10 Mobile" - LOL - so continuum is not a desktop-like experience ?
  • Not as much as a Desktop experience with a shell to scale to a smaller device.
  • If "phone-like experience on ARM", means the current version of Windows10M with no continung improvement, no new apps, and existing apss being discontinued, I agree that "we have Windows 10 Mobile". If you mostly use you current phone for phone calls, and are happy with Windoews 10M, as it is, you are OK. If you wan timprovemnts, tha twil come with an upcoming Ultimate Mobiel Device (UMD). It sure looks like any sort of UMD will involve Windoews on 10 ARM. 
  • In the short answer NO.  Continuum is another half assed concept from this inept development group at windows mobile divison.  I guess being ball tied by the nutella one does not help matters!
  • Whew I almost bought a alcatel yesterday for fun but thought I'd wait a week or two.... Dodged that bullet. Not like any developer will make a wp app after that news.
  • Remember Windows Phone is dead and has been for some time. Windows mobile is the thing. And they are still making apps for these in the form of UWP.
  • Even Microsoft isn't dedicated to UWP. Only a matter of time before it gets killed too. What is the point without mobile?
  • like they did with the Linkedin app? Their own service getting an app as a web wrapper? And phones ignored again? If MS does not give a damn about UWP apps, and they don't ans proven!, devs for sure won't. Linkedin, their own app, a web wrapper :))) pathetic joke.
  • I agree. The X3 $300 discount also looks like a fore sale to me. The Alcatel is good as a replacement for a broken Windows phone but looks silly as an new or upgrade phone. I suspect the X3 will get good support from HOP for a few years since it is enterprise/business orients. 
  • They will definately keep supporting the Elite X3. They just released a firmware update for the Elite X3 the other day. Dona Sarkur who is the head of Windows 10 Mobile updates says they are working on enterprise stuff with HP. This can only mean good things for the device. There will be bug fixes & optimizations etc...
  • But nothing substantial for a $900+ device. Bug fixes and maybe some lame enterprise features as if these are actually be used there.
  • Well, those might be used by the...3-4 business users that were dumb enough to pay that money on the X3 :)))
  • I'm definitely waiting anxiously for Windows 10 on ARM, specifically in the 8-in form factor. I imagine that by virtue of having the snapdragon 835, the tablets will automatically have GPS built in, along with LTE radios. Along with that, I'm hopeful that the wake up time for the tablet will be able to rival that of my iPad mini (instantaneous). I hate reaching for my iPad because it'll turn on faster and then wishing it were my W10 tablet with all its extra power and functionality and design, etc.
  • Same here. or 7" once the lower end OEM's get their mitts on them.
  • Gather your pitch forks! Lol!
  • You can already buy ARM-based Chromebooks. Do they have notably better battery life than the Intel ones? A lot of the battery must go toward powering the screen and various radios which are going to be basically the same, right?
  • Then throw Windows into the mix and all the power it requires. WoA will probably have similar battery life to Intel machines while being lower performance. It will likely be years before a good experience is available with WoA.
  • Windows itself doesn't require "power" -- it's the hardware that does. For example, the i7 used in the latest Surface Pro has power usage of 15 watts according to Intel, while both Atom and Arm have less than 5 watts power usage, and the Arm chip has a lot of extra stuff on it (like GPS, LTE and so on) that Intel Core chips don't have (not sure where Atom falls) The question becomes, how much performance do you get for the power used? An atom chip clearly is more than 3x slower than the i7 in a Surface Pro, so it's performance for the power is not as good, while Arm is likely to offer better performance for the power used. The truth behind the "windows requires more power" myth is that Windows requires more _performance_ than low _power_ intel chips can provide. WOA fixes that, and you should see the same battery life from a Snapdragon 835 powered WOA device as on a snapdragon-powered Android device with the same battery. * technical detail that I know people will call me out on if I don't mention it: Yes, if you run all the parts of a chip at full speed all the time, you will use more power than if you manage power effectively, and so there could be a "windows" that uses more power than another OS. Again, WOA is the solution to this as it will be designed to use the power effectively.
  • Yeah, I meant performance, I shouldn't have uses the term "power".
  • why
  • not again
  • So could somebody please explain what will happen to Windows 10 mobile?
    Perhaps I'm not getting the idea, but will the current OS survive or be killed altogether?
  • Ultra portable Desktops is the way to think about this.
  • Feature 2 will be the last update then maintenance updates only. Windows 10 Mobile is basically dead and has been since the Anniversary Update.
  • Remember Windows Phone 7.8? That pathetic update when MS ditched the customers and expected them to buy new devices with WP8.0? it's the same thing now with Windows 10 mobile being on Feature 2 branch. Nothing new for it, only kept on life support to avoid even more ebarrassment...not like everyone already does not know how pathetic they are
  • This nut job was part of the problem two years ago. They should have sacked him permanently.
  • Anyone that has a title suggesting leadership inside Microsoft should be sacked. They are all doing their own thing and doing it horribly. They don't even understand what the hell they are doing anymore...how are we suppose to?
  • ...minus Panos of course. He is the o ly last person in that company with credibility.
  • That's called self destruction!
  • What they have been so ng is self destruction, so they should be good at it.
  • LMAO. The device that we sold you, barely supported, then hinted at bringing along for the next reiteratio....is actually going to be a giant pile of crap. But please, buy all means buy our next new and improved device. We promise we won't do you wrong like the last ten reboots.
  • that was quick but expected. at this point i will be waiting for MS rumored reboot, since i wont be leaving Windows Mobile anytime soon most likely never :P
  • If Windows 10 on arm only works on sd835 it will be a failure from day one!
  • Not really. It out preforms the Atom in every single way and it will support new processors as they are released. This is going to make Chrome books look expensive and open up a lot more markets. 
  • Chromebooks have run on ARM for years. It isn't a game changer. Not sure why people are expecting magic.
  • But Chromebooks on ARM can't install and run that legacy program you want. So for the same hardware cost do you want the glorified browser or a full X86 computer?
  • ARM didn't make Chromebooks drastically more efficient, why will it make Windows more efficient? Especially when you are running legacy programs? That is my point. ARM won't change anything for Windows. You will just have lower performance devices with slightly better battery life.
  • It's not coming on my 950 but we all knew, all along, that older phoens couldn't handle it. NOW.... Microsoft isn't producing any hardware (that we know of) BUT and it's a big one.. the specs of the SD835 and what is included.. It may not be a "Cell phone" if that's what you prefer to call it, but look at the specs and it's just as cheap as the Atom without these features! It's only a matter of time before an OEM makes a small "Desktop device".
      Qualcomm® Snapdragon™ X16 LTE modem, LTE Category 16 (downlink), LTE Category 13 (uplink) Supported Cellular Technologies: LTE FDD, LTE TDD, LTE-U, LAA, LTE Broadcast, WCDMA (DB-DC-HSDPA, DC-HSUPA), TD-SCDMA, CDMA 1x, EV-DO, GSM/EDGE
    Multi SIM, LTE Dual SIM Dual Standby (DSDS)
    Next-generation Calling Services: VoLTE with SRVCC to 3G and 2G, HD and Ultra HD Voice (EVS), CSFB to 3G and 2G
    Wi-Fi: 802.11ad, 802.11ac Wave 2, 802.11n, 802.11a/b/g
    Wi-Fi Spectral Bands: 2.4 GHz, 5 GHz, 60 GHz
    Wi-Fi Features: MU-MIMO, Multi-gigabit Wi-Fi, Dual-band simultaneous (DBS), Integrated baseband
    Bluetooth 5.0
    GPS: GPS,GLONASS, Beidou, Galileo, QZSS, SBAS, Assisted GPS, OTDOA (LTE-based positioning), Low Power Geofencing and Tracking, Sensor-assisted Navigation, Pedestrian Navigation
    NFC: RF, RFFE, Qualcomm® RF360™ front-end solution
    USB 3.1
    Camera: Up to 16 MP dual camera, Up to 32 MP single camera, Qualcomm Spectra™ 180 image sensor processor, 2x Image Sensor Processor (ISP), 14-bit, Qualcomm® Clear Sight™ camera features, Hybrid Autofocus, Optical Zoom, Hardware Accelerated Face Detection, HDR Video Recording
    Video
    Video Capture: Up to 4K Ultra HD video capture @ 30FPS
    Video Playback: Up to 4K Ultra HD video playback @ 60 fps
    Display: Maximum On-Device Display Support 4K Ultra HD
    Maximum External Display Support: 4K Ultra HD
    Audio Technology: Qualcomm® aptX™ codec technology, Qualcomm Aqstic™ audio technology,
    Qualcomm Aqstic™ audio codec playback support
    CPU: Up to 2.45 GHz, 8x Qualcomm® Kryo™ 280 CPU, 64-bit, 10 nm
    GPU: Qualcomm® Adreno™ 540 GPU
    Qualcomm® Quick Charge™ Support
    Qualcomm® WiPower™ Support
    Memory Speed: 1866MHz, Dual-Channel, LPDDR4x
  • Well the writing was on the wall. But that's okay really as I'm sure the 950 series and Windows Mobile series of phones will continue to get updates and supported till EoL. My 950XL is coming up to 2yrs old and prior to getting a 1520 I used to changes phone devices every 3-6mths. Since the 1520 up I've been satisfied to keep my device for years... A big difference for me.  However Microsoft's own campaign of throttling back on hardware for phones was preparing the market. When the new devices that come out that will be WoA I'll be ready to buy a WIndows device that has phone capability, and not a phone that has certain PC capability. I'm ready when they are. And let's face it, this is nothing new when new tech is being introduced. It is rare indeed that new tech can use old hardware design.  
  • Awesome comment.
  • I second that, my Lumia 830 will do fine till then
  • you are sooo correct on your last sentence, "It is rare indeed that new tech can use old hardware design." ppl do not want to accept that
  • I get it. Last device that Microsoft has released was two freakin years ago... All W10M devices are obsolete... Yet no direct word on the surface phone.
  • The L650 was released on February 16 2016. A little more than one and a half years ago.
  • The Alcatel Pro was released a couple days ago...
  • It is the Idol 4s from a year ago.
  • Not according to the branding and market. That is a new device.
  • No surprises. Does this throw a bit of mud in the idea of Surface Phone running full Windows 10 on ARM though?
  • Surface phone is a fantasy!
  • Exactly. The idea of a 'Surface Phone' is a myth. Someone mentioned a Surface Phone on these forums a couple of years ago and suddenly this device exists in the secret MS Labs. MS aren't developing this device. Fake!!!! Please, move on.....
  • I don't care. I would be happy with a Lumia.
  • There won't be a Surface Phone. Only a handful of people like Zac insist in believing there will be another reboot etc. There won't. Microsoft might release ultra small PCs but they won't be phones and no one will buy them as such (if they buy them at all). They are probably not even be able to make cellular calls any more than a tablet with 4G can. The future of phones is with Android and iOS. Microsoft knows that and accepts it. Time the remaining stubborn fanboys accept it too (I'm speaking generally).
  • Supposedly there is a reboot coming that doesn't look like current Windows phone platforms. This isn't WoA either according to Paul Thurrott's comments. https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/117153/microsofts-looking-reboot-mobile-...
  • I'm pretty sure that reboot won't happen. Mark my words. And if it isn't WoA, then it's sure as hell not happening at all.   We'll have to wait and see but I stand by my claim: there's no Surface Phone and there will be no Surface Phone.
  • Seeing how the Surface Phone is rumored to be coming out no sooner than Fall 2018, I'd say not really. The rumors have always sold it as a true computer in your pocket, and W10 ARM sounds like the way they're going to accomplish it.
  • Well, if you want to believe in unicorns, I can't stop you ;)
  • If a ninja cat holding a microsoft flag believes in unicorns, then who am I to not belive?
  • At least they're getting the Cshell update with the Continuum experience being a lot like the desktop experience. Isn't it?? 😃
  • Do you see any partners (especially HP) releasing a W10M phone on SD835 in the near future, like say 6 months, that WOULD be upgradeable?  I get that the SD835 is a limiting factor, but why not release WoA hardware running W10M until WoA is ready to be released, and at lesat keep the fans happy?
  • Because there isn't a smooth upgrade process. What would the point be? It isn't like they would sell many anyways.
  • I guess my only option is to wait on a surface phone or switch to android and pick up a Nokia 8
  • Nokia rocks! If MS bomb on this again - I am headed back to Nokia...and Android.
  • Sadly, this Galaxy S8+ I switched to is a giant lag fest piece of ******. So you either get no apps and some stupid corporate support decisions with Windows, or you get an Android Phone that requires a refresh every month because it bogs itself down to a useless state. At this point, the entire monile scene flat out sucks.
  • While I don't care that my Lumia 950 XL won't support it, I am pretty worried about Surface Phone after reading his quote. He seemed determined to point out that Windows 10 on ARM is only for the laptops, and not for any smaller form factors. Surface Phone/Mini won't stand a chance if it only uses the Windows 10 Mobile OS. Where does the whole "CShell"-saga fit into all of this?
  • On the 835 onwards. Look at the specs of the 835.
  • Or it means that the "Surface Phone" isn't a "phone"
  • My Elte X3 is doing everything I need it to do, which is why I got it. I got it as a smartphone. It will still do what a smartphone does after Windows on ARM is released. Nothing will be taken away from my X3. I may consider Windows on ARM if I'm ready for a new device by then. I don't have a problem as long as W10 Mobile is sufficiently supported.
  • Same here with my 1520. Great phone.
  • I've moved on to Android even though I don't like it. Kept my 640 XL. Microsoft will have to work hard to get me back.
  • What does Android do for you that the 640 XL does not?
  • For me that would be: banking, Samsung Pay, Adobe Lightroom, Fiver, updated Waze, my union's (SAG-AFTRA ) app, AAA, send scheduled texts. Should I go on?
  • Stop the B.S. Microsoft. We've been loyal to your mobile efforts. Just give us the damn upgrade
  • The beta test is over. Its time to make a switch. Android or iOS.
  • Microsoft is killing it. People on this forum are being so dramatic. Microsoft is finally maturing and all the stars are lining up. Can't wait to see what they do. I don't care if my Elite x3, 950xl or Alcatel Idol are superseded next year. One year plus is enough for me. If I get two years from a phone that's fine. And as far as paying 'soooo much' for the X3 as an example, it's no more and more often less than the competitors for a brilliant device.
  • The problem is there won't be a new Windows/surface phone for you to continue!
  • What competitor phone isn't support for 4+ years?
  • Symbian and Nokia Asha
  • Most of the times "support" includes missing features due to hardware constraints, just like this.
  • Yep, queue the credits, cause this story is over.
  • Please MS, no more talk Just show and prove. I am sick and tired of your tomorrow or next year plan
  • I'm sorry, but after their numerous failures with WP and WM, this whole CShell will be another massive failure I think.
  • Saw that coming. It's officially the end of Windows Phone/Mobile as we have known it for 10+ years. Now officially in uncharted waters. Between the failure of WP/M, the utter blandness of ios, and the hodge-podge (sorry, options) of Android my passion for smart phones is at an all time low. Kind of reached that "It's just phones" level.
  • Rocketboy:
    I will speculate here but I think most logical people would agree with you. My 950 and XL are getting updates and work just fine. I am looking forward to the advancement of technology and these new MS devices with telephony.
  • I never expected W10 on ARM would come to the 950/950XL, especially after seeing how it's implemented via emulation and translation, and its dependency on the Snapdragon 835. Cool stuff.
  • Before finally gave the fan base something to chew on Microsoft has an existing ARM effort in Windows 10 Mobile, which is part of the old paradigm where desktop was very different from mobile (architecture, apps, etc.). Now they want to make the desktop *the* mobile. The Transforming Mobile. I think that is the end game of all their efforts, to untether Windows (from the former defining architectures and limitations) and yet to retain its identity into every form factor possible. ARM is the key to that uniform expectation of 'always-on-Windows' The radical and different Start Screen introduced in Windows Phone 7 has been subsumed as part of a progressively modernized desktop, of which the latest iteration (Fluent) is the future of UI/UX and will be extended and on all current and future devices and OS updates "For phone-like experiences on ARM we have Windows 10 Mobile", quoting Belfiore. I think this is instructive. Windows 10 Mobile is the present (aka past) of Microsoft's ARM vision (and that includes devices like Alcatel Idol, Lumia 950, HP Elite X3, etc.). They are test beds of what works and what to bring forward into the future mobile forms of use interactions. Windows 10 on ARM will be a "desktop-like experience" on several form factors beyond the 'smartphone'. This is because the desktop will continue to evolve to better include Continuum, AR/MR, pen, etc., as part of the regular, fluid, productivity/ creative/ consumption/. flow of using the Windows OS. They are not just there yet. All the pieces are not together, but I think there is a vision. And yes, time is against them.
  • Usually, paying beta testers, and those who crowd fund software still get the final product. What do current Windows 10M "testers" get?! An electronic device every bit as useful as a Palm pilot that is still in use today. It can run Caculator, Calandar, even emails and a Word app! Whoopee! PS. That also happens to be the current state of BB10 phones...sad but true.
  • Well thanks MS for finally making up my mind for me about staying. Was hoping to hear that at least the 950 series would be getting it as an insider but yet again you succeed in failing your consumers.
  • You thought a 3 generation old processor would be able to run full windows 10?
  • I thought a 3rd generation 64bit chip still running a 32 bit OS would've been able to handle the very same OS running in 64bit. That's what I thought!!!! The thing is all that HP X3 vid showed was this same OS running in landscape mode, a larger live tile and better continuum.................absolutely 0 else other than it's gonna be 64bit when completed.
  • Touche’ pussycat!
  • So if my understanding is correct no surface phone on full Windows ARM coming on the market anytime soon , instead that OS , a super Windows RT will target tablets and laptops to be released end of this year , the advantage being mainly extended battery life . Will that OS run legacy Windows programs for intel ? probably not . I don't have a problem with it not running on phone . However for phone an hypothetical revamped Windows xx mobile is in the work but won't be compatible with existing devices . There i have a problem .. Not again . This is getting ridiculous .
    Anyway my 640 getting old so buying a 950 , at less then $300 it's now a bargain .
  • I wouldn't do it. The 950 will be outdated by Christmas.
  • You don't want to have to carry to devices? What is wrong with you? That is the way of the future under Nutella....stupidity.
  • I think they are being coy in that the device we are calling the "surface phone" won't be a "phone" in the same way that the Surface Pro isn't a "tablet" (in the way that an iPad is a "tablet") -- remember the "there is no Surface Pro 5"? quote?
  • I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm finally leaving this OS. I've hoped so long for things to improve, but now I can't help but feel we've reached a dead end (regardless of what MS brings to the table next year). It's finally done. I'll keep my current 650 as a secondary device for keeping up with updates and the latest "improvements" for as long as possible. But I'm done with Microsoft on the mobile front. Their lack of transparency is what most frustrated me throughout this long and weary journey. It's been a great ride, though...
  • I don't see the point in continuing to buy Windows phones. I've had one since Win7, and I loved them. But I can't see the point in staying with a company who so obviously doesn't care about its customers. I get tired of hearing what MS is going to do, surface phone, ARM, blah. blah. It's all bs until someone who has a clue takes over. I guess I'll learn to love Android next.
  • Have 3 Windows Phones laying around some where, they'll be my last. Did it w/BB in 2012 and never looked back.
  • I am not surprised by this... So...when are the new full Windows 10 phones/devices coming out?  Not happening? Happening? Help? No I am not interesting in purchasing a non phone device. If my next phone is Android due to lack of MS presence in the phone world...so will be my next tablet. Other concerns....what will MS abandon next?  
  • MS can see all of these comments and they're laughing their ass off! It's all about money, money, money!...making it or saving it....The fact that they have been quiet about the future of w10 mobile is the clear hint that the OS & win phone devices are dead, not even in coma!
  • Yup, As a windows phone user, im sad to say this but, they're gonna need some serious necromany to resurrect the windows phone. :/
  • I don't see myself running full Windows on a 4 inch screen anytime soon. I've tried "full Windows" on 8 inch tablet and it's awfull performance, usability and battery usage-wise, unless you run exclusively UWP apps which I can run on my phone anyway. While current devices won't be updated anymore, UWP itself will continue pretty much unchanged on future versions of Windows which means current device will still be able to receive most app updates. Remember that there's still many people running Windows 10 Anniversary Update or older exactly like there's still people using Android KitKat devices which still receive app updates. UWP is designed to scale up and down between versions. It's not that difficult for developers to create an UWP app which benefits on upcoming things like Fluent design while still maintaining compatibility with Threshold. That's an advantage over Android in which you have to adjust to the minimum common. My Windows ecosystem is still pretty functional right now. I have a Windows Phone (Lumia 930) which still works great as a communication device, light web browsing and main camera, my Surface Pro for doing PC stuff on the go or the ocassional website which only works or works best on a PC, a Xbox One console for no-fuss gaming and media consumption and a powerfull desktop PC for working at home, gaming and other stuff only possible when you have lots of RAM and hard drive space you won't have anytime soon on a mobile device like running servers on virtual machines.
  • "For phone-like experiences on ARM, we have Windows 10 Mobile." Yeah, in the same way that someone on life support is "alive."
  • I will not buy a Windows based phone for another 2 years at least. I will be buying phones, but not from MS. Their little "retrenchment" totally "Scuttled" their reputation. A business needs to understand, it takes time to build a reputation. It does not happen immediately. Sure they may have a flash/bang moment where they grab everybody's attention, but recent history has totally shown that if there is no reputation to keep it going, then the flash/bang effect only lasts through the Christmas season, and then its gone. MS had a reputation, then they had a flash/bang moment. Fine, but they totally ignored the reputation you get buy supporting your product in favor of "scuttling" support and going for the next flash/bang. They have done this repeatedly. Now Windows 7 is useless, Windows 8-useless, 8.1-useless, Windows 10M-Useless. Window 10oA, will last through the Christmas season...maybe next years Christmas. Then they will abandon that and the app developers will be high and dry, users soon thereafter. If Windows 10oA lasts longer than 2 years, then they might have rebuilt their reputation. We'll see.
  • Why Im not surprised? I seen this before with WIndows Phones Im not buying any new phone from microsoft 
  • I don't know that I can afford to stick with MS in the future. This is exhausting. And I still don't have a slo-mo camera with audio or a Wallet with TTP. My camera crashes often on my Elite x3 and now a single click of the camera completely wipes out my 1520 - it reboots and completely drains the battery. I realize that many think a lot of the people on here are whining, but honestly - the camera and Wallet have been issues with my old phone and my new phone. I literally have no other option than a phone that isn't even supported anymore - and I'm not convinced that the 950 would work any better. Seriously, I have loved my experience for the most part, but my iOS and Android friends can only laugh when I have all of these issues...
  • It's been real MS!!!
  • I'd actually be happy if there was a means to release WoA on the L950/L950 XL without the Win32 compatibility, kinda like Windows 10 S but for phones. Of course, if their next stab at mobile isn't until next spring, my L950 XL will be 2.5 years old and I don't exactly expect it to still be supported in any way other than maybe security fixes. But I can dream. :)
  • I'm going to get downvoted on this - but considering Microsoft has always been a software company over a hardware one, I suspect this may be the end of any "surface phone" made by microsoft, and instead you'll start seeing "Samsung Galaxy 9 with Windows 10 Arm" They'll use the popularity of Samsung to get their SOFTWARE into the hands of millions without the liability that they've had from developing software. As it stands, the Galaxy S8 can run WOA with no hardware change at all.  It would make a lot more sense to simply reflash them to WOA. Gets the product out quickly in a platform that's proven popular by the masses. And delivers a professional OS in a stable platform that's already had the bugs worked out. It makes sense.  Much to everyone's chagrin.  
  • "Without the liability that they've had from developing software hardware." Fixed that for me.
  • I'd totally buy a Galaxy phone if it had W10 on it. 
  • Why would Samsung waste their time and reputation on such a thing?
  • Hospitals. Military. Government. They all still use Windows.    So if the interface were accessible from WOA to Windows 10 (which it damned well better be) they'd have a huge foothold to sell these devices.   But as much as consumers want to complain, Nadella is right: Microsoft is an enterprise company.  As I like to quip: my old Marine Corps unit has more Windows Toughbooks in storage than there are active Windows 10 Mobile users.   A WOA phone that would let me directly connect with the secure servers at the hospital without having to jump through hoops AND support the applications I need ? Count me in.  If it doesn't do those two: That's its loss.  But Microsoft can make WOA work without selling it to a single consumer if they wanted.   Their NMCI project ensured that theirs is the ONLY systems working in the government ATM.  
  • If this is going to be a PC with telephony then I really need it to be a dual or triple fold device for portability in my daily life. My X3 with the folio cover is a two hander and about as big as is practical for me to tote around through my day. I have said this in the past: give me a foldable piece of hardware (in the style of the sci-fi hardware in WestWorld) that then folded to its smallest has an interface like W10M (via Cshell) and when unfolded looks like my SP3 interface, and when docked can function as my desktop at home or on the road. Now that would be a device that would break the mold and be the next thing "around the curve" per Satya.
  • Let the crying begin!
  • But why was it necessary to have to tell that? History supports that as fact on those early ARMs processors. Performance was not mention in the same breath in fact not at all but it never stops idiocrasy from trying to pull a bulldozer with a Volkswagon Beetle then blame Microsoft because it didn't work.
  • Why would anyone think the older phones will get new hardware capabilities? Right from the outset, the minimum tech specs were mentioned, and no phone had the chip yet. Click bait by Zac to start a ******* contest among the fans.
  • well, I was never expecting MS to put out full windows 10 for phones, so this is no surprise.  But it would be nice if they would finish the cshel work for current windows 10 mobile, or at least fix some of the bugs.  I've been having issues with running outlook in continuum, it would crash every time it started.  I just discovered that the display scaling was at 125%, and when I changed it to 100% then outlook works fine.  So lets hope they have some real feature updates coming some time for Windows 10 mobile.  
  • Do you people understand that what MS is looking to release isn't for the average user? With the latest processor avl now, means it's a true beast and why would MS expect a true beast chip to run WhatsApp or Snapchat or run FB live. This device is not for the average users of mobile devices and it'll be targeted at consumers that fall into this category. Ms is looking to go into a market that is a niche one and all else will have to buy an IPhone or Android device.
  • Belfiore's excuse is already in the article.
    as the number of people using those devices gets smaller, it unfortunately makes less sense for us to invest more time and energy in that.
  • I don't know why anyone expected that it would be, to be honest. Microsoft have said all along that Windows 10 on ARM was going to be released on the SD835 and it's never even been publicly demoed on anything less than the SD820 so why would people expect it to be made available to the SD810 or below?
  • MS itself is the cancer
  • You know... I'm starting to think that Microsoft doesn't really. care about its current and former phone users. Just a thought.
  • STARTING to think?!?!?
  • That moment when the rhesis monkey realizes his entire existence was so that humans could have lavender-mint fragranced shampoo without fear of cancer. That's your post.  You (and the rest of us) were used as guinea pigs. We were given cheap hardware, hastily coded software so that the enterprise could be sold on a 'concept'.   
  • Wow. Just wow. They cannot afford to do this.
  • So no Windows 10 on phones. They're working on a new device but they haven't done anything to change the fundamental flaws of the platform. I'm not buying into a platform that even MS won't support, surface phone or not. 
  • Well finally someone clarified, it was clear that WoA will not be for phones and will not provide phone like experience, ppl mistook it for the next phone OS, it was never going to be.
  • I am a BSP developer. I know what they're talking about. Their explanation is ridiculous. Simply put, they just don't want to do the development, even for their existing flagship.
  • MS wants their w10m users to buy new phone every year. They are trying to leave ios/Android mobiles behind where apple pushing their users to change their phones after 3 years because of latest iOS.
  • I am glad. So finally there will be a new phone to buy, rather than using the old ones and crying that things don't work well. ;)
  • Doesn't sound like there will be new phones to buy. Sounds more like some basterdized version of whatever and hope someone is dumb enough to buy into it.
  • Hmmm Microsoft. Doesn't change the fact that I like my 950xl and will use it til it dies then dread the switch to android junk.
  • Nope
  • Hello
  • Hey guys I am not saying I know everything about what the future holds for Microsoft & their mobile efforts. However there is no way we are not getting at least CSHELL for the HP ELITE X3 when it is available. There are too many enterprise companies that HP & Microsoft deal with for that not to happen in my opinion. However WINDOWS ON ARM for Snapdragon 835 & up we almost forsure wont get according to this article. In my opinion that is so unfair though. How are you going to fully say we demoed our future technology plans on a SNAPDRAGON 820 (Elite X3 runs this chipset) but then say it isnt coming down the road to this specific device. That is not cool on so many levels. I have loved Microsoft since I was a kid but this kind of stuff they are doing now is a low blow to their customers. They better clean up there act fast & rethink their inks down @ Redmond
  • CShell is a future feature of full Windows allows it to change the UI based on the hardware. It is not coming to current phones. That is exactly what this article is saying. W10M is dead. It might get some lame enterprise features with the Feature2 update, but then it will only be maintenance releases after that.
  • Not true, the accidental build that hit Zac B x3 was not full Windows, and that has cshell
  • "as the number of people using those devices gets smaller, it unfortunately makes less sense for us to invest more time and energy in that." He straight up said they aren't putting more time and effort into W10M. CShell might be part of the reboot, but current devices aren't getting it. It the reboot is anything like the accidental build, then it is already a failure. That UI will go nowhere for the 5th or 6th time.
  • I actually read that to say they are not investing time into full Windows on arm for those devices because of numbers, i think they are still continuing dev on Windows 10 Mobile, we just don't see it yet, hence why Zac got that build that has CShell...
  • It will be surprising if W10M gets any updates after Feature2. I wouldn't get on it, not with the current lack of hardware.
  • Yep, I'd probably pick up a WoA tablet/Surface when they come out this fall.
  • Maybe it will work on this mystery, prototype for the surface phone (folding):
    https://www.onmsft.com/news/folding-surface-phone-image-spotted-in-micro...   https://www.onmsft.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Microsoft-unknown-mobi...
  • Wishful thinking IMO, but maybe we will be surprised
  • I have been living in fools paradise all these years being a Windows 10 Mobile user.
  • All I need for my 950xl is CShell and smother continuum that runs multiple UWP apps in windows mode.
    For full WoA I grab the next generation when it comes.
  • A kick in the groin for 'the fans'
  • Honestly, when it come to Microsoft devices I keep saying "never again" but then I find myself in the front of the queue, cash in hand to buy the next big thing they launch. I think there's something wrong with me   
  • They said that W10ARM required at least a SD835 months ago... How is this surprising? There are no phones running W10M on an SD835, so... No W10ARM on existing phones, duh.
  • I'm just looking for Cshell on my 950, could care less about full W10ARM.
  • W10M is dead. It certainly won't be getting any features as big as CShell. That is a WoA specific feature.
  • Windows phones is dead. Emulating desktop 86 apps is useless for a typical phone form. Windows on ARM is designed for a different form.
  • Soon™  New mobile devices from Microsoft can't come quickly enough.  I'm worried that my Lumia 1520 isn't going to last, and I really don't want to switch to a different OS.
  • No point in getting any phones now or releasing any phones now. Honestly with the shape that uwp is in now it's no point in getting the new phones either. Developers are barely supporting their apps now. It's time to go Android and watch Microsoft from a far till they get their stuff together
  • I'll like a small, pen enabled, 7-8" windows 10 on ARM tablet with a long battery life definitely! But it'll be nice for MS to clarify future of Windows 10 mobile if any.
  • I get that 950/950xl are old by today's standards, but the way he phrased that last bit is just downright admitting they stopped giving a crap about mobile. He could have just said something like next generation or next wave, but he just dismissed mobile altogether. The whole thing sounded like "What, you thought this was for phones? Come on, guys, grow up." Way to treat your insiders, Joe. This might just be the nudge that makes me jump ship.
  • drip-drip, drip-drip. Slowly, slowly the picture we all know is revealed.  I would to have a WoA tablet but not sure I could get that past the wife. I already have one running RT and one running Windows for desktop. Maybe MSoft could run a trade in program.
  • Another attempt at windows phone? Unless MS provides any confidence to the developer and user community any time soon, the attempt is going to fail 100%.
  • This was written in the clouds, MS is building software from the core up. First you get the UI and then build the proper HW without looking back Surface phone does not exist, a ultra portable computing device with telecommunicaton capability is next. Cellular networks from today will converge into full IP broadband connections, no need for modems or 'phone' protocols. we are now in a period of transformation and oem's need to sell something don't they.
  • I watched the stream and things are quite different from what reported here: Belfiore was pretty clear that WoA is only for desktop experiences, pc and tablets, NOT for phones, for which they have W10M. This implies that whatever comes next will be based on the next version of W10M, NOT WoA. So it's not correct to say that existing phones won't receive WoA, because it isn't supposed to run on ANY phone, even future ones. This don't change the fact that probably current phones won't receive it, but the future OS will always be W10M.
  • ...
  • Finally some kind of rational sense. All those fancy titles and speculations were false and will be false.
  • You will gave to excuse me on this, burnt I thought that Microsoft was cheat from the start that windows on arm had little or nothing to do with actual phones. It was mostly fan speculation that it was. Microsoft's core market is desktop OS based system, not phones. So a flagship effort would naturally be directed to that. On the bright side it does mean that windows 10 in phone should be supported fir another few years as is.
  • Tis disappointing news but not surprised. Finally glad to have some clarity on what's happening. I'm happy with my 950XL, it will tide me over until MS starts the next thrill ride.
  • This is a good news. Good news because there will be a new device category, that's sure. Mobile and Win Arm. For Windows 10 Mobile Cshell will be there.
  • No it won't. W10M is dead. They aren't going to waste any more time on it. He said that directly.
  • And Alcatel are still launching a new (renamed) Windows phone at the same time as Microsoft hammers the last nail into W10m coffin?
  • Innovations usually brings new hardware.
    Only "noobs" and naive person still believing that old hardware (like L950) would be ready for windows on ARM.
    Note: I've an L950
  • :)) more like blind delusional fanboys expected such things. Win10mo is nothing more like a wp7.8-ish maintenance mode OS, nothing more. Devs do not give a damn about it and MS as well. Pathetic!
  • i wouldn't give up on the dream quite yet. it all seems like semantics to seed low expectations (like panos panay did with the "there won't be a surface pro 5" comment). microsft was always adamant that Continuum was a Desktop PC-like experience, and Joe Belfiore mentions this about Windows 10 on ARM. Now what this is all seems to be about is that no one should expect to be able to use full Photoshop on your Phone's touchscreen. photoshop on the same device in continuum mode is much more likely. and it seemed like a given that current gen phones wouldn't be getting any major system revision.
  • it's fair enough, but now bring the top100 ios/android apps or an android emulation and I'm sold
  • Just switched to Galaxy s8
  • Condoleances
  • I would be interested if microsoft could combine an ARM and core i5 chipset in the next surface pro itteration. All else I don't see use for it. It feels like a gap filler for something between a core m3 and i3 or i5. I think the frist experience with windows 10 on ARM with the 835 will be an underwhelming experience. I think it will be better to wait for a more polished experience with windows 10 and ARM with the 850 chipset The first experience I think will be similar from windows mobile to windows phone 7.
  • i love joe but this might not materialise until 2022. we are beginning to lose hope. welp still wishing for the monstrous smartphone that could be a game change. if not....
  • What is demoed and what ships are 2 different things. By the time Windows 10 on ARM sees the light of day the Lumia 950's will be nearing there end of life anyway. To get the best out of Windows 10 on ARM you will need a SD835 and 8GB of RAM. If you can get a pocketable device with those specs and a 250GB SSD then you could have something that could be your single device.
  • Same history on Windows phone 7.8, some Windows phone 8.1 devices, Windows RT and now Windows 10, this was not "the definitive system"? Promissescrosoft
  • They're just saying "there is no significant users on w10m, why we need to waste our time with those idiots that buy the devices?"
  • Who would?. MS products are so much better on Android except people sync
  • I am sure that Microsoft have to stop CShell & Continuum 2.0 for mobile's version of Windows 10. Instead of that they have to modify both desktop versions of Windows (intel and Arm) for mobile usage. So add the third - 'Mobile' mode. And issue new long awaited device called 'Surface phone' :)
  • The thing that I actually think is news here is that it sounds like W10A won't be coming to phones at all, even new ones with SD835. My impression was that the "ultimate mobile device" would be differentiated because it ran a full OS with CShell. But is that not the case?
  • That was just the opinion of one or two writers on this site. For some reason people have latched onto that idea like it was something coming soon, when in reality it wasn't planned at all.
  • i am not surprised, the 950 i had was good but after 15 month  time didnt work. most phones dont last 2 years (or should i say start to degrade), its gonna hit the two year mark time to switch up. if MS is going to try their best to stay in mobile they have to move forward, what work yesterday might work today. most ppl are complaining but honestly are you surprised? lets hope that this will bring Windows phone back into the spot light, lets wait and see.
  • The comments section of the Windows central app no longer works. Anyway my return to Windows Phone is short lived. I have now gotten my first Apple iPhone and I must say, it is a wonderful device and great eco-system. Good luck Microsoft guys....
  • Wow - thumbs down on my well wishes to those that decide to stick it out with a Company that clearly has turned its back on the Windows Phone customers.  Just wow! This article speaks volumes to me even though it is light on details (not the fault of the author, but clearly intentional by the Company).  Windows Phone 8.1 put to pasture less than a week ago.  Now this nugget of information basically bastardizing W10m.     Best wishes....
  • Everyone wants to talk about Windows 10 on ARM running on a mobile device, but before we get there I want a new Surface tablet. A new 11inch Surface with a beautiful PixelSense display, all of the updated features of the new Surface Pro, while running Windows 10 on ARM and Microsoft can certainly take my money right now.
  • Soon™
  • It's MS Soon™. Maybe they will patent it soon😉
  • Won't need it on my Android phone....I'm a die hard fan but even I am getting much less willing to live with what I can do faster and better on a different OS...my 950xl is getting close to eBay...
  • I'm in the same boat, except I know for sure that I'm selling my 950XL.
  • I'm not surprised. The 950 line will be 3 years old by then. We already have more powerful components in phones now, so why would they put work into tailoring W10 ARM to a 3 year old product? Would it be nice if they did? Of course. However, most people don't keep their phones longer tha 2 or 3 years, and some people think they need a new phone every year. As a 950XL user I would love to have it, but even Contimuum is a big laggy on it. I hear the Elite X3 is a much better experience. I would've prefered getting W10 ARM on my 950XL, but it makes sense why it's not happening. This isn't much different than Apple saying older iPhones won't get the latest version of iOS.
  • I expected this, not running on current phones, but a phone with SD835 should be able to run it and CShell will make the desktop adapting to the screen... That's my dream, SD835 phone with Windows on ARM and running real desktop app in Continuum mode... hopefully it will happen.
  • Not exactly surprising, was gonna require new tech. On another note, in the 18 months I've had my 950XL, I can't think of one major new feature it's gained through updates. I wasn't expecting it to get anything more, either.
  • Actually quite a bit is known about this project. The code found mentioning andromeda reveals that its a detachable clamshell device with dual screens (it has two sets of gyro variables, and a hinge variable - from there its just deduction. Its been spotted on campus, and several insiders have stated that it is based on a "branch of win10m", and that's been repored on multiple windows blogs. 
  • Why would any 3rd party manufacturer now want to support Windows on ARM after seeing how poorly Microsoft has treated the likes of HP? Microsoft are the most commitment-phobic company in the tech sphere, and when they're not abandoning projects they seem determined to kill them off. It's a minor miracle that Don Mattrick didn't euthanasise the XBox platform following the abysmal launch of the Xbox One.
  • "how poorly Microsoft has treated the likes of HP"?
    The same HP that Microsoft has spent the past few months with helping to continually develop the OS for the X3?
  • And which they will apparently abandon. 
  • Joe. that's not true and you know it. On x86 Windows the app layer (the OS as you see it) sits on top of the HAL (Hardware Abstraction Layer.)
    This is EXACTLY what the BSP is. Just another HAL.
    This is how Windows will be able to run on ARM, just a special HAL for ARM processors.
    Now, admittedly, that is the hard part, writing the HAL as it is hardware-specific and you also must write all the drivers for the different flavors of ARM cpu's (of which there are MANY) and create from scratch the API translations.
    x86 has settled down over the years to fairly predictable API's and is written (if you ever look at it) to the AMDx64 instruction set with some of the special MMX stuff for the Intel CPUs included. (this is also why W10 Creators Update does not support the older Cherry-Trail Atom CPUs. They do not include the Media-extensions that the newer CPUs do and CU relys on those for some media functions. They would need to re-write the HAL to support them and don't want to spend the time or money to do so.)
    The WOW layer on Windows x64 allows it to run 32-bit programs (and is why it cannot run most 8 or 16-bit programs anymore as there is no support for them in the HAL.) So, a bit of a fib Joe. Try again.
    This is all about MONEY and moving the hardware support forward.
    I understand why MS does not want to drag along so few systems (really, it's very small compared to the iPhone and Android behemoths) so why not just tell the truth about it?
  • Hmm ... Then time say f***koff Microsoft and move to Nokia android.
  • Ef no. Not buying imaginary devices.
  • Just a thought, they demo'd the x3 and 950's running WoA, what they were demonstrating probably only worked properly on certain things, and most likely none of the phone features worked, essentially making them tiny tablets instead of phones. yes these devices can "technically" run WoA, doesn't mean that they should. I "could" walk 1000 miles barefoot, doesn't exactly make it a good idea though does it?
  • I agree with your deduction that it made absolutely perfect sense to demo a new mobile OS iteration on currently in use hardware that was never going to get it to people who're using same said hardware and in fact are waiting for almost 3 yrs for new hardware to be released by the same company that in turn will want these very same people who they just without a care shafted with the biggest log they could find to buy whatever device they decide to release.
    Standing Ovation to you Sir!!!
  • Spin (half-truths) by Joe B here. Clearly they won't support the 820 but MS needs to spell out the mobile plan asap. They are lost at sea.
  • There is no mobile plan!
  • exactly.
  • um yeah, it wont be coming to anything old becasue then you wouldn't have to buy anything and they would have done all that work for NO return on investment. Duh. As much as they would love to make your old stuff work forever and be more useful there's no money in it. 
  • Talking crap. MS could've made the CShell and fluent design work for the 950 series, X3/4s. All they had to do was to simply make it for those phones initially allowing the current consumers to experience how better it is over W10M and then start teasing features here and there on a device with SD835 chipset encouraging consumers, if it's good on older hardware it's SURELY 10X better on the latest and greatest. How will MS encourage anyone to buy anything new from them with the idea that there's no operational issues with whatever new hw they release? Understand this there are 0 current WP users that will buy a device that offers the same buggy performance that they currently experience now with W10M. No one willingly buys a pig in a blanket!! No one will just say oh MS released a new device let's buy it and HOPE for the best.
  • sad..
    windows mobile 6-7 cant upgrade
    windows phone 7-8 cant upgrade
    windows phone 8-10 FINALLY something upgrades
    windows mobile 10-? cant upgrade
    and they wonder why they keep losing customers
  • Yes they are bunch of bastar.ds
  • No. Not in the least.
  • I don't understand this full Windows need. Are you really going to do anything, anything, that you do on your PC? It's like the Ferrarri you see idling next to you in rush hour traffic. All that power and he still has to obey the same traffic laws and physical laws.  After the thrill wears off the phone will once again be like any phone - calls, text, games, banking, and whatever you do now. So why the insistence that it can do everything your PC can? 
  • Buying any new device offered by Microsoft is a risky endeavor. They have a history of not sticking it out with the devices they sell. Zune, kin, Windows phone 7, 8, 10 and now a whole new freaking direction...seriously! They didn't even allow windows 10 mobile to mature before they are now killing it. Who's to say they won't do it again? If they adopted a Xbox type mindset in the mobile game then maybe they would have a chance. They stuck it out with xbox until it was successful. Support the software you already have and work toward improving it! Let it mature! Do they really think developers are going to forget about how they don't have any sticktoitiveness? I for one am not supporting another freaking reset. How can a software company be this bad at making software?
  • Windows 10 on Arm minus X86 programs should come to Mobile if they are smart. (They aren't.)
  • "For phone-like experiences on ARM, we have Windows 10 Mobile" WP8/W10M is for potato-like experience actually.
  • Heart bleeds of sadness seeing from the days of Lumia 920 to this state...sigh.
  • Of course! To what then? Nobody's even building Windows mobile devices
  • *Shrug* I cannot see Arm based Windows being any better supported with 3rd Party hardware than existing Windows Mobile platform. The bluetooth stack on my 950 is constantly being messed up with their updates, if it works at all. I was and sort of still am a Windows Phone fan but, if it does not work with what I need it to, then it is useless for me except to play around with.
  • Haha...Microsoft and their bull ****!!!
  • yes
  • Eat my Shi.T Microsoft GET LOST
  • " Microsoft's Joe Belfiore confirmed that existing Windows phones won't be getting full Windows 10 on ARM." Is it just me, or could one put a positive spin on that by reading " Microsoft's Joe Belfiore confirmed that existing Windows phones will be getting cut-down Windows 10 on ARM."?
  • DONT EVEN DARE YOU SAY THAT. Windows phone currently has come to an dead end and we should just be happy with the devices for sale.
    .
    Maybe in a couple of years, MSFT might finally release a better telephony-capable device.
  • I can only hope what you said is true :D
    But this won't happen, unfortunately. In best-case scenario, existing users get the new CShell, in realistic case we get maintenance updates :P
  • Folks Microsoft said Windows 10 on ARMS was for mobile devices like Tablets and Laptops which is more logical place for it to be given the fact you have a bigger screen than a smart phone's to use a full Win32 x86 desktop  PC program on. however no one said it's imposiable to put a Cell phone send & recieve device on a 7 or 8 inch tablet  whico could also be running Windows 10 on ARMS. such a device could be set to dual boot windows 10 mobile or jusy use the regular & UWP Apps Windows 10. Folks Windows 10S is tailor made for an Intel ATOM  CPU- 7 or 8 inch tablet that has a Smart phone tranciever in it. this Device would use windows 10 UWP and regular Apps.
  • What were you expecting ? W10ARM requires a SD835, and existing W10 phones don't have it. And a phone requires a phone UI, and W10ARM does not mean cshell !
  • Now I will never buy windows phone, don't want to make mistake like this
  • I wish Microsoft bad luck ahead, ha ha
  • Not only that, I wish for them to continue to FAIL in the same pathetic way. It's no more that they deserver after all the crap they sold us over the years since Nutella came on board. And they will continue to FAIL because they have no commitment, no respect towards anyone and ZERO vision about how to market and deliver a good product for everyone. So, MS can eat sht I don't care. They are the best comedy show ever.
  • Microsoft is now in donkeys as.s
  • I will not gonna buy windows mobiles in future GET LOST Microsoft eat my Shi.T
  • When They will UPDATE Advance Info , or Extra And Info App
  • Anyone buying anything mobile from MS is either a ********* or has no self respect. Ms has screwed us over so often and in such a horrible way that I can't imagine anyone voluntarily choosing a next going over.
  • I'm surprised that anyone was expecting this on existing devices. I haven't read one single sentence about Windows 10 on ARM that gave me that impression.
  • Its not suprise ARM won't be coming to existing phones. x86/x64 windows 10 would not run on older snagdragon. Full desktop experience is good idea. remeber windows CE pocket PC, had a pull down menu like most desktop applications. if the GPD pocket release yester can make phone call, i will get it right now.
  • The real question is : When will Microsoft will be bundling Vaseline with it's phones ? after all what they did to it's costumers for the past 10 years.
  • MS mobile phone OS will have more reboots than Windows 95. They are unable to set themselves a target and stick with it for longer than five minutes. It's like a child that finds a new toy and throws an old one away.
  • I wonder if Windows 10 Mobile will be the version of Windows with the quickest end of life. It was launched in semi-beta bug ridden format in late 2015, worked reasonably well after the anniversary update, had it's last update this year and is now on life support maintenance. It could actually be done in less than 24 months. Some record. I can't remember if RT or Windows 8 was ditched faster.
  • RT lasted quite the same, only that it was not launched to the public half baked, like windows 10 was...back in those days users were respected and MS used to deliver good quality...until Nutella came and decided to use insiders to test their OS, and look what came out, a mediocre platform.
  • If no one wants full windows on a small tablet why do they want it on a phone? I just don't get it, even if the legendary surface phone becomes real I will use Android.
  • Guys, it is great news. Full Windows 10 would never work well on the phone. Too many problems with complicted multilayered start menues, desktop shortcuts and the rest. Phone is only a phone.
  • So does that mean no more updates/new features (not referring to bug fixes) for my 950XL which I've only had for a year and a half?
  • your 950XL will remain on Feature 2 update branch which is nothing more than another WP7.8. meaning small bugfixes (if at all) and nothing else. MS gives zero SHT to their own platform, why bother....though, I find it hard to believe you would be able to sell it now. Who would buy it?
  • I wonder if Windows on Arm is to replace the atom chip market. For the low cost tablets and small laptops that run in atom chips.
  • I miss the elop where people started using and liked windows phone / mobile despite the limitations on apps & games
  • are you interested in buying a device with Windows 10 powered by an ARM processor?   No.
  • folks Microsoft said from the begining Windows 10 on ARMS was from ARMS CPU PC's not smart phones. you will see new cheap ARMS CPU Tablets , Ultrabooks , Laptop PC's using Windows 10 on ARMS  for sale this fall. Microsoft Execs keep saying they will make a Windows smart phone that does not look like any out there today. i hope microsoft breings it out this FALL 2017 because microsoft is losing what few windows smart phones users it has. Damn how could microsoft be so slow. it doe not make sense even Blackberry hasa new smart phone coming out .
  • So does that mean the existing windows 10 mobile devices cease to get routine updates.? Cos if Cshell isn't coming to existing devices then what's the point.!
  • Full Windows 10 on ARM won't be coming to existing phones..... ok!! Will it be installed on NEW PHONES?
  • Can't say I'm surprised. Microsoft has been an absolute joke throughout the entire existence of their mobile platform of planning for a long-term goal. They did this with WP7, WP8, and W10M. Why would anyone expect Microsoft to suddenyl have a vision? They show 0 desire to hold their current consumer base and no meaningful plan going forward. I'm still not convinced W10A will ever make it to ANY mobile device because of their lack of commitment to mobile for these past 7 years.
  • If MS isn't going to add anything to the OS then at least add better features to the MS developed apps. Photos, Phone dialer, groove, films and tv, maps, people contact app, etc. We could accept no more added features to the OS but for heaven's sake make the baked in app experience more enjoyable.
  • This^
  • Very good point...
  • We don't want Windows 10 on Arm on our phones...we want Windows 10 mobile on Arm on our phones which basically what we currently have now, but with new enhanced features...
  • I think after my HP elite x3 I am going to be done with Microsoft. This phone and all the things it enables me to do even with out the list of endless bullshit apps is pretty amazing. But this constant need to screw the users is why I am going to call this the last attempt to give Microsoft the benefit of the doubt. I spent $800 on phone that almost replaces my laptop just for them to say Oh well we tried. No screw that. Am done giving my hard earned money and time to these buttholes in Redmond. Am done. If they can't get their stuff together and stick to a plan and execute it properly there is no need to continue on this train. Period.
  • I think they could survive one final brand/vision relaunch of their mobile strategy. With the main excuse/reasoning being that it would be a fresh effort under Panos' leadership.
  • Well after supporting them in buying a 950XL and then buying an Elite X3 only to have them say they arent going to support us back by making the new OS (which is capable of running on both devices by the way) unavailable to us. We have invested a large amount of time and money in trying to keep Windows Phone alive and now they say, "sorry too bad so sad" is unacceptable to me. I am not rich, but know the value of having good tools. I hope they reconsider their position because I am about done with all smart phones, mainly because I am retired now and have to watch my spending.  But it would be nice if they actually were grateful for our loyalty and actually tried to express it by not kicking us to the curb.