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Is Microsoft strangling Windows phone to prepare for the concept of Surface 'phone'?

The question: "is Microsoft strangling Windows phone to prepare for the concept of a Surface phone?" That's an inherently very different question. I understand the well-rehearsed idea that Microsoft is killing Windows phone. The company's dismal performance in mobile, it's apparent apathy to marketing a first-party smartphone and it's painful silence on the matter could all be legitimately interpreted as conclusive evidence that Microsoft is indeed killing its mobile strategy.

For many Microsoft watchers, the company's collective failures in mobile from Pocket PC, Windows Mobile, Windows Phone and culminating with Windows 10 Mobile, are evidence that Microsoft has finally given up on the idea of Windows-on-mobile. I disagree.

I do, however, believe that to ensure the survival of Windows-on-mobile Microsoft has made difficult decisions that are painful for Windows-based phone loyalists, both inside and outside of Redmond, to endure. It seems Microsoft has deemed that the survival of Windows-on-mobile requires the pruning of the withering branches that are Windows phones.

The Windows-on-mobile vision lives on

To ensure the health of a tree, diseased branches are removed to prevent the disease from spreading to the rest of the tree. This pruning ultimately strengthens the roots, and if it's a fruit-bearing tree, it encourages the eventual production of fruit.

Contrary to exaggerated claims, the current state of Windows phone isn't that of a dead platform. I understand some who make the "claim" intentionally use hyperbole to express its dire condition. Windows Phone 8.1's no longer supported and Windows 10 Mobile's on just 20 percent of devices. Still, Microsoft provides limited support via OS updates. Sporadic developer support, real but insufficient OEM support from the likes of HP and Alcatel, and a passionate though diminishing fan base are also present. Together these variables suggest Windows phone is still alive, but like a branch in need of pruning, it is diseased.

Due to rejection by consumers, insufficient developer support, inconsistent commitment from Microsoft and an inescapable negative reputation, Windows phone is likely unsalvageable. Microsoft knows this. To be clear; I'm referring to a smartphone running Windows 10 Mobile, nothing more.

Every smartphone is a mobile device, but every mobile device is not a smartphone.

The idea of Windows on a smartphone is perceived by most as a "diseased concept" that I believe would be rejected no matter how Microsoft might present it. The iPhone and Android phones have defined what a smartphone is and sadly, due to external forces and missteps by Microsoft, a smartphone running any version of Windows does not fit that definition.

Still, though every smartphone is a mobile device, every mobile device is not a smartphone. It is upon this truth that I believe Microsoft is resting its mobile strategy. But to move forward with its Windows-on-mobile vision, it must first remove the diseased Windows smartphones from the market and the idea of Windows on a smartphone from public consciousness.

Smartphone woes

Microsoft's vision of bringing the power of Windows to a pocketable device is decades-old. Long before iPhone or Android phones, Microsoft's mobile OS was a player in the enterprise smartphone space.

To Microsoft's dismay, the historically ignored consumer demographic passionately embraced Apple's offering and Android smartphones that followed. Microsoft's response after its iPhone-inspired awakening from years of lethargy was wracked with desperation.

Microsoft's Live Tile-based, touch-friendly Windows Phone 7 UI was a new and unique manifestation but still a continuation of its Windows-on-mobile vision. Windows Phone 8 and Windows 10 Mobile followed with many improvements and sacrifices. But as was the case with other smartphone iterations of Microsoft's Windows-on-mobile vision, they all ended in failure.

Every mobile device is not a smartphone

Microsoft is currently in a quandary with respect to bringing the next iteration of its mobile vision to market. I believe the company is planning a Continuum-enabled Windows on ARM ultramobile PC with the context-conforming CShell and telephony. This will be a mobile device, but it will not be a smartphone.

Microsoft's vision of a mobile device.

Microsoft's vision of a mobile device.

For it to be accepted by the market, any remnants of Microsoft's failed smartphone attempts must be eradicated from consumer's minds to whatever extent possible.

Additionally, I believe Microsoft has deemed physical reminders of that failed platform must be purged as well. Thus its full retreat from the market and little effort to solicit OEM support. This strangling of Windows phone while supporting its Widows-on-mobile vision puts Microsoft in a multi-faceted quandary.

Problems with pruning

Though the idea of Windows phone is quickly fading from consumer's collective consciousness, which Microsoft wants, it is also fading from developer's collective consciousness, which Microsoft doesn't want.

Due to low market share and other factors, developers never supported Windows phone in any meaningful way. Now, they're not only ignoring Windows phone as they've historically done but are accepting iOS and Android as the only platforms that matter. Still, Microsoft needs developer support for Windows 10 now and its Windows on ARM ultimate mobile device later.

Microsoft not supporting Windows phone isn't an abandonment of Windows-on-mobile.

Microsoft's public dance of dropping carefully curated assurances of a commitment to mobile in reference to a potential Surface 'phone' (ultimate mobile device) while intentionally choking Windows phone by withdrawing all but the most basic support sends a confusing message.

Like many bloggers, consumers and Microsoft watchers, developers mistakenly see Microsoft's lack of passionate support for the current iteration of Windows phone as Microsoft's abandonment of its Windows-on-mobile vision. Consequently, many are abandoning support for Windows and not looking back which is disastrous for Microsoft's mobile future regardless of what non-smartphone device it launches.

We're part of the problem

The other part of Microsoft's pruning process problem is you, and when I say you, I mean us. Passionate Windows phone fans who don't want Windows phone to die.

Now, this is where language becomes important, and a bit confusing. When most people say Windows phone is dead they mean the totality of Microsoft's mobile strategy or Windows-on-mobile (sometimes less accurately called Windows on 'phone' when referencing a future non-phone device).

They're not looking beyond the current iteration of Windows-on-mobile and are seeing Windows 10 Mobile as the totality of Microsoft's mobile strategy. This is wrong. Just as Pocket PC, Windows Mobile, and Windows Phone "died" but Windows-on-mobile lived on as subsequent iterations of the mobile OS, Windows 10 Mobile will likely do the same and be succeeded by Windows 10 on ARM with CShell.

As fans, however, we love, use, talk about and refuse to give up our Windows phones. Some of us still actively try to convert others (I gave that up over a year ago). Naturally, this passionate support and evangelizing of Windows phones work to counter Microsoft's process of pruning actual phones and the idea of Windows phones from the market and our collective consciousness. Microsoft doesn't want consumers thinking about the fiasco that has been Windows on smartphones when it introduces its ultimate (Windows) mobile device.

A new way of thinking

Microsoft's hardware goals are to introduce new categories of devices that help consumers work more efficiently and which conform to a user's context.

Microsoft's still unrealized mobile vision has been clearly communicated over the years. The company wants to offer a pocketable device that can make calls, be a PC via Continuum and as a result of OneCore benefit from the breadth of features available to Windows 10. Pen support via system-wide inking, mixed reality and more are examples of features this ultimate mobile device, that can potentially be all devices, may bring to the table.

Microsoft faces the challenge of proudly communicating that the range of benefits that this device will bring to the masses are features of Windows 10, while conveying that the device itself is not a phone. It's clear from previous reader's comments that that distinction will be difficult to communicate.

I'm certain that hardware design will be critical to helping to make the visual distinction as clear as possible. Unique and new ways of interaction may be another. Intentional market positioning in the PC space as an ultramobile PC and subsequent marketing as such may further distinguish this device from smartphones.

However Microsoft brings its ultimate mobile device to the table, it will do so in the wake of strangling the life out of Windows phones right before our watchful eyes. It's not pretty, but if the next phase of Windows-on-mobile is to have any chance at acceptance the world needs to forget about Windows on smartphones in order for the concept of an ultimate mobile device to take root.

Now Read

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Jason L Ward is a columnist at Windows Central. He provides unique big picture analysis of the complex world of Microsoft. Jason takes the small clues and gives you an insightful big picture perspective through storytelling that you won't find *anywhere* else. Seriously, this dude thinks outside the box. Follow him on Twitter at @JLTechWord. He's doing the "write" thing!

475 Comments
  • Thanks for reading folks!!! As I shared in Windows phone isn't dead - and may never die: https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-phone-still-isnt-dead-heres-why Microsoft's mobile strategy will likely continue with full Windows on ARM and Windows 10 Mobile will likely join its Windows mobile OS predecessors in in death. I think MS is trying to purge the negativity of Windows on smartphones from the collective conciousness to give its full Windows on ARM ultimate mo Ile device, or ultramobile PC the best chance at success. So what are your thoughts...LET'S TALK!!!
  • You are probably right, but the bigger question is, will anyone care?
  • Europeans do, it's it's vexing that a good product is being dumped because of poor user takeup in the US.
  • Lol, not anymore but we had over 10% marketshare tho👍 then Ms screwed it big time😂
  • They only "screwed it" because they got wind of something better in development and realized their current phone's architecture would never be compatible with it.  Happens all the time.  
  • That's not true. They didn't have to dump everybody off the platform! They could have actually kept up their older platform until people traded up. That's how you succeed in business--customer service. Apparently Microsoft can't walk and chew gum at the same time.
  • I agree. That's exactly what Ballmer was trying to tell Nadela, but he didn't listen. Let's see
  • True, but that would mean that they would need to have a viable path of migration. Microsoft doesn't have a good way to incentivize people of a very good sub $200 Windows phone to one that's over $500. Remember that their most popular phone, especially a road, was the 520. When it was determined that it couldn't run Windows 10, several incarnations were built until they came up with the 640. Neither are considered powerhouses, but I'll be damned if my 640 does 90% of what I need to do. The other 10% is a bunch of social media BS that OTHER people want me to do. I can't fathom paying 5x more for a phone to do 10% more work. But therein lies the rub that Microsoft has to contend with if they want a good section of their loyalist to jump to the next incarnation of portable devices. I say this as someone who has had I Microsoft product in my pocket since the Pocket PC days.
  • This true. There’s so many examples of CEOs making this mistake all the time though. Famously Sega of Japan killed the Sega Genesis less than a year after the Sega Saturn launched which royally screwed them out of millions of necesarry cash flow.   some people are just short sighted than others.
  • Was at 20% in Italy and France !!!!! Satya is a moron, that s the reason....
  • The sad thing is that MS doesn't care so much about Europe even tho we have all this hope and love for this company. I wonder when the time will come to feel some love back from MS.
  • Windows mobile 10 didn't have good sales anywhere. Windows Mobile 8.1 on the other hand was really starting to pickup back before Microsoft bought Nokia. They had higher market share then the iPhone in some European markets.
  • I don't think we care that much either.
  • Yes. Microsoft loyalists.
  • Of course people will care - IF Microsoft can deliver a device that looks and acts like the devices in Westworld and are not too painfully "half-baked" windows 10.
  • I will..lol
  • .
  • No. Not really. What we need to look forward to is what comes next.  W10M as we know it is dead. It wasn't part of their vision because they couldn't translate that vision into something people could easily understand. We get that.  It really does seem preposterous to think Microsoft would just give up the "mobile" space.  Mobility and portability are important in the modern world. Not having a form factor that can supply a Windows presence seems silly.  So, I understand the meaning of the article.  It is a weird thing to read, though.  And what is even weirder is that I think we knew this is what was happening...  Unfortunately, this all also means that there is much more pressure on existing innovation/ product lines. Microsoft needs mindshare at the ready when and if the "next" in their mobile attempts surfaces... see what I did there?  LOL.  Here is hoping the journey was worth it!  If not, it was at least a fun ride.  Several years of enjoying and watching something grow and evolve isn't a bad thing.  It's just a little sad that we have to strangle it now.
  • @RayWP7
    "Several years of enjoying and watching something grow and evolve isn't a bad thing."
    Remember though that you did give up on a lot of stuff, in the form of actually usefull apps. I never joined Instagram mainly because we never had the official client. I am behind on mobile banking because most apps weren't there. Taxi services like Uber (or the equivalent where I live)? No. Snapchat and the like? No. Along with thousands of other apps and games that weren't available to us. So yes, you see something grow...you see no support from 3rd parties but that's OK because we were here for what WP7 and 8 offered, and it was not features or apps. It was the vision of a clean, fast, fluid and well designed UI and language that kept us here...then came W10. Even that was taken away as support ended for the versions of the platform that actually meant something. Now you're stuck in an empty land with no apps, no support, and no design. That's when you ask yourself "why did I trust Microsoft so much? Why did I keep giving them the benefit of the doubt? And why the hell were all these people deluding themselves even though the evidence came out right when Lumia 950 was released with that non-OS?"
  • ? how many of us windows users will jump on this new mobile device if it doesn't have the APPS we hope will come and when it's released what do we do when what we have now are slowly ending support for the OS. You do see that the windows mobile OS is slowly heading towards a business/enterprise oriented device where most of the entertainment apps/social apps are ending their support of the platform. Another thing is how many of us are going to outlay the many $$ this device will cost knowing that the app support is diminishing. How many users will MS have that won't care about the social media or general usage apps that are financially able to support MS's efforts with this device?
  • Once i purchased an iphone 7 I arrived to the point where I don't care what MS does with mobile, what they innovate and whether or not It's successful anymore.
  • Yes -- IF you pay big bucks for at least iPhone 6. If you try to run iPhone 5 (like I did) it will burn up the phone just trying to route your e-mails through Outlook.
  • iPhone is for oldies dude, I tried a iphone7 it for 3 months, just a stupid an limited os.
    Have to admit Samsung S8 is a beast...
  • Lies, iPhone is not for oldies. Apple made a great product and in return are getting great support.
  • The only great product was t he iPhone 1. Since then they have been overtaken. Blackberry10, WinPhone8, Win10mobile were all better in any way, Android if you ignore the horrible UI and fragmentation issues too. There never was a reason to spent more than $400 for the current iphone model, compared to what the others had to offer.
  • That's where I'm at. Finally had to give in and get an iPhone... Then I got an Apple watch due to the Band being killed. What's the point of going back? I invested many MANY years on Windows Phone and it got me to here. Not sure I trust them to try it again unfortunately. I sure do miss some things though! 🙁
  • Problem is, we all know the direction their latest attempt at a Windows Mobile phone-that-isn't-a-phone will take. Why? Because we know exactly how MS's approach will play out. Always has done. What's more if there was any chance we might have forgotten and forgiven them MS appear to be keen to ram home the message to its fans by selling us down the river. Sure this time it could be different. Thing is, we've all said that every other time they tried. I have a Pocket PC in my draw. That wasn't a phone either, but it still died due to MS. Better to just get a tablet with LTE. I would like to say once bitten, twice shy. Unfortunately I have to say regularly savaged, bloody mess.
  • This is actually the first "Post-Balmer" attempt.  IMO, he was like a cancer in the company.  I loathed microsoft during the Balmer-era and I have liked most of what they are attempting to do "Post Balmer"  I think it makes a difference.
  • He's the one who pushed for them to move into Hardware, and if they'd done so sooner and quicker maybe it would have turned out differently. He got it wrong by dismissing the iPhone but he pushed for Surface and he fought to save Xbox when others wanted to kill it. In interviews, he has talked about how he and Bill Gates came to blows at times, and drifted apart a little over their disagreements over moving into Hardware.
  • I hear you. I've had a pocket pc, then windows phone 7, 7.5 , 8, 8.1 and now 10. It's quite maddening to have to re-buy into their ecosystem every few years because their attempt at a platform failed or needed to be rewritten..but i also feel MS never really gave any of those versions a concerted or sufficient marketing and mind share push from any angle (dev or consumer)
  • If you mean spend money with "re-buy" other platforms also need plenty of $$$ to buy each new phone. If you mean buy in to the new approach, yes you have a point. But you could also view this as a roadtrip MS is taking us on and they are not afraid to make the hard choices killing of branches that don't fit the vision (if any). Do we really want MS to simply copy iPhone. If not we might have to accept that they don't know what to do to counter this, or do better than iOS and Android at the moment so they need plenty of time to experiment. As a consumer I/we might not like that but...
  • Thing is....they WEREN'T just copying iPhone in the early days - As time as gone on they have tried to copy Android though in many ways. There's been no direction when it comes to phones. Saying that, I'm a happy Lumia 950 owner and I'm not getting rid of mine until 2018 anyway, maybe late 2018 because phones are so boring right now there's nothing worth upgrading for - I can stick on a new back cover and a new battery so as long as the screen stays in good condition I'm golden
  • Jason, I appreciate and support your exploratory articles into speculation of Microsoft's strategy, but I think you are, to many of us at least, stating the obvious here. Many of us have speculated for quite some time that the retrenchment strategy only made sense as a mechanism to purge the market and mindshare of the current/past iterations of Windows Mobiile. The difference between you and I, however, is that I will not give Microsoft the benefit of the doubt here. When you prune a tree's dying branches, you do not shave away slowly at the bark until the branch has nothing left to shed. Instead, you cut it off quickly, swiftly, with some modicum of mercy. Microsoft's slow, painful retrenchment strategy ensured that the loyalists supporting the platform would continue to support it until every last drop of their will was drained. I will no longer give Microsoft the benefit of assuming it was doing something smarter than I had imagined in its strategy just because it is "Microsoft." I still wish them success and believe they can come out with devices that will "wow" the tech world, but they do not deserve any leniency on the retrenchment strategy.
  • Couldn't agree more. I can't wait for amazing 2-in-1 devices and those running on ARM processors (like tablets, laptops) but I'm done with phones for now. Unless they manage to put in the option to make phone calls with Windows 10 and cramp that into a smaller formfactor (which I think is the plan) then I'm all ears. But I'm not going to spend another euro on a Windows Phone the coming years.
  • Jason, I believe you are correct in every way.  Almost 20 years ago I was at a conference at the Marriott Hotel near the San Francisco Airport.  Bill Gates was one of the key speakers. This was in the early to mid 90s.  Bill Gates gave a speech where he spoke of a future world where there were a number of devices that a person used, they would share a common operating system and would have access to all data whether it was voice, musicm piictures or video (not that there would be only one operating system to choose from.)  The only difference would be the way you interfaced with the information. Bill then went on to describe three usage modalities. A social interactive device (Like a smart television or Surface) - where a group of people could interact, watch, etc. A Personal Interactive device ( like a laptop or desktop. And a Mobile Interactive Device - then it was like a combination of a mobile phone and a PDA hooked together. At the time, there were people, some of whom I knew well, making light of such an outlandish prediction.  Yet here we are at the door step of such a future.  I have said for the past few years this has been the core direction.  One OS for all types of interaction.  The paradygm of a hardware specific offering in each category will melt away.  A Surface Phone is the most likely next iteration and would set the stage for the final convergance.   Tom Loker www.loker.com
  • This is what I wanted from the first time I owned a "smartphone", and as they've got more powerful, it's where I see them ending up. But you can call it what you like, it may be a pocket sized PC with telephony but if it makes phone calls then people will call it a PHONE. 
  • Thanks for the response Tom. I appreciate what you added to the discussion.
  • The only way I can see it now is that the next mobile device I purchase from Microsoft will be a device that I do most of my computing on, and I use continuum and at the end of the day unplug it and put it in my pocket and go home. Maybe make a call or two on the way. That would be the next device I purchase. This week marks a milestone for me, and I since being a user of every single iteration from 6.0 to 10, I've swapped my idol 4s with windows out for an idol5s with Android. Guess I felt it pointless to put up with all the parts that needed fixing because I too have the same belief that even the fast ring is a bug fix ring and not a development branch. Shame because I love the concept. 
  • So you think Microsoft is trying to "purge negativity of Windows on smartphones" by employing a strategy that dramatically INCREASES that negativity? What kind of sycophant comes up with "logic" of that kind?
  • Hi, jasongw the smartphone market is billions of users strong. Microsoft's Windows phones occupy less than 1 percent of that space. Of that less than 1 percent just over 20 percent are Windows 10 Mobile devices. The majority of Windows phone loyalists belong to that 20 percent of the less than 1 percent group. It is calculated or at least from Microsoft's perspective acceptable collateral damage for that small, miniscule percentage to be angered and ultimately bring new category of device to billions who have little to no knowledge of the negative legacy that will have been purged from the market.
  • You give Microsoft too much credit. I believe they are flailing in the dark and have no idea how to make mobile work.
  • You are trying too hard to defend Microsoft. Nothing good comes of stabbing your own fans in the back! We all get it that the goal is pocket computer" and current phones won't be able to do that. But it IS possible to promote the current platform while at the same time developing the next big thing. It would help build momentum--what they are currently doing is shooting themselves in the foot.
  • Hi TJN735, I'm not defending Microsoft. Please reread I'm candid about their failures. I state what I believe they're doing and I've been a fan of Windows phone since Windows Mobile 5.0. I wrote a piece which I linked, where I point out things I wish Microsoft didn't remove from Windows Phone 8: Ode to Windows Phone 8. As a matter of fact I carry two phones a 1520 with W10M and a 1020 with WP8 that I refuse to upgrade. 😎
  • Fair enough. I appreciate your articles because you at least try to make some sense of the situation when there really isn't much to go on. But the concept of kicking existing users off and then trying to rebuild goodwill is absolutely indefensible. I hope you didn't get that idea from MS.
  • Actually I doubt that they will make much of an effort to rebuild good will. Windows phone currently has less than 1 percent of the smartphone market. Of that less than 1 percent just over 20 percent are Windows 10 Mobile devices. This tiny space, 20% of the less than 1%, is where most of the passionate fans are. I believe Microsoft's target with an ultramobile PC will be a MUCH larger market than the miniscule group we represent. In essence, I believe Microsoft will count us, those who are embittered anyway, as collateral damage.
  • I think it's easy enough to say they WANT a much larger market share but you don't always get what you want and MS will still be behind in most of the world on things like Mobile payments. They've made zero effort to get that out to places like the UK (Where contactless payments are WAY more popular than the US) Whatever they come out with, if it's going to replace a persons phone (Which it would HAVE to do to have even a 1% chance of success....nobody needs a Windows Device to replace their iPhone or Android right now....except us W10M users/fans and to convince somebody to change at this point is damn hard, no matter how good your tech is there's sooo much more to it than that, it's where MS have failed in the past with Mobile)
  • If by trying to make sense you mean inventing theories that make sense in his parallel world...
  • Or when Microsoft release a new product those billion people won't care because they won't be looking for it, they'll be focusing on what they know. You don't get your foot in the door by standing on the sidewalk.
  • Out of all the people I know that use W10M as their main phone...50% are the average person who doesn't care what phone they use, the other 50% are tech enthusiasts. Oh and I know 1 other person still using it as their main phone :-p
  • Good article, but I don't think that MS (read: Nadella) is even giving a conscious thought about it. It isn't being strangled or even forcefully slain, rather killed by neglect.
  • I never actually wanted just a phone, but the ultimate goal was a computer in my pocket. Today smartphones are getting close to that, Microsoft has a heck of an advantage with the desktop PC and technology is now at a point where a handheld device can perform a majority of daily tasks.  All it needs is to be plugged into ergonomic devices scaled to a adult human to use, also ideally with a large display - we have that now. So Windows Phone will die, I cannot envisage anyone wanting the current smartphones other than those that do not use computers.  Neither do I care for the windows phone only apps as I just want applications that are already present on the desktop like word, email, web browser etc. But the big threat to this vision is fragmentation, here I do not understand why ARM is useful?  It is okay as a processor, but its low power advantage is eroding over time to Intel, if we have ARM then I'd say we must have a way to compile X86 code to it efficiently - or no ARM at all.  What I want to see from a surface phone is Intel/AMD putting out a latest technology X86 chip, and Microsoft putting an OS that can switch seamlessly from handheld phone to desktop PC. When that is delivered I really will not care one jot for iphone or android competition, they are then irrelevant being neither enthusiast platforms that might go somewhere (still an Amiga fan at heart here!) or the industry standard computer, why settle for an Android/Apple desktop when I can use what I already have and is well refined and stable?  They can also keep their "apps", I'll be happy using professional applications instead, the majority that seamlessly switch to handheld mode when I'm on the move, free of advertising and intrusive monitoring for monetary gain.
  • Dont underestimate the apps. They are really what drives smartphone sales. Bus, taxi, banking and social media of course. If those apps arent there, people wont buy it. And you need those apps worldwide. When i travel i find bus, taxi. hotels and whatsnot for those countries and uses them. Apple and Android is seriously deep in the app marked and even if i could find some nice apps in the windows store it wasnt enough to keep me with a winphone. Sorry, but apps count. A great deal
  • App makers just go to whatever people use. And people don't really have a real idea of what they want in terms of devices. Remember back when everybody got a Blackberry, which was a business oriented device. And now everybody uses Google because it's free.
  • Arm is about price. No mystery or fragmentation to it. Intel charges a lot for their processors and many have packed modems and LTE for quite some time.
  • There's a lot more people than you think that don't use a PC. I know so many people who only use a PC at work now....These aren't tech enthusiasts or anything just normal people who don't need a PC because so many services are cloud based, have an iPad app etc.
  • Great article.
    As an insider , I have seen major improvements on windows 10 mobile no more lags and freezes, no more reboots in the release preview.
    Microsoft should continue with polishing the OS first before releasing any mobile device. Half-baked OS on a great great device is a major turn off.
    Next step should be listen to what customers and fans want on new devices. I mean not just high end devices that are costly, mid-range devices are also needed. Then Microsoft should sort out their marketing strategy.
  • To bad you can't get those improvements if you are on Verizon unless you go unsupported
  • I don't agree that  MS must withdraw from the market first, that strategy is wreckless to the point of corporate suicide. Stay in the market place, be seen to be proactively and loyalty supporting your own products, then simply make a U turn when the time comes. no one but no one does what MS is doing if what you say is indeed their plan, sadly more inept marketing strategy from the masters of disasters.
  • To stay in the market, Microsoft will have to spend heavily in research department designing the phones hardware, having another team to develope and maintain the mobile branch OS. While this can potentially attract or keep a high user base, developers and even OEMs on board, but will all become waste and severe backlash when they push out the WoA devices. It is known that the old apps (Silverlight) will not work in the CShell environment. I think they make a wise choice to let the old and incompatible one to fade away before they introduce a new one.
  • Why would anyone trust these CLOWNS to get it right next time?????
  • Great article again.   I really want windows on a phone to succeed but it will only succeed if it has the apps that people need. Tons of apps such as cctv systems, hike smart devices have ios and Android apps but no windows. Even more well known apps like snapchat don't exist on Windows. These apps simply need to run and run well. Microsoft need to use something like bluestacks or similar.   Another killer feature is linking it with the xbox and mixed reality eco systems.   Trust me, I know what will make or break windows on portable devices
  • Sorry. Customers are not weeds to be "pruned." Whatever happened to the good old-fashioned value of building consumer confidence but putting the customer first?
  • Some new customers would magically be born as adults who will buy the next gen MS mobiles ignoring everything from the past.
  • Oh dear. What an ill thought out concept this is.  Your past customers are your most likely future customers by _many_ factors. No company would intentionally remove their most likely customers from the picture, if they intend to release future products, they want those people on board. Further, removing a customer base does nothing to 'erase negative memories". The average person does no have severe alzheimers. Take something like the zune - most people don't remember it at all, those that do, still regard it as a failure (despite the fact several elements of it became the successful windows 10). This is more or less the attitude to windows phone - the vast majority of people have zero idea it even exists, the small minority that does remember, would still be calling it dead if msft had 5% marketshare.  
    You simply cannot erase bad PR. You can only produce good PR, create a successful branding. Look at nadella's rebranding efforts and the careful cultivation of the surface brand - that is how you 'erase bad PR'. By giving it no thought, and producing good PR.  Last up, MSFT needs a development platform. Both for the windows 10 OS itself, and for third party developers. You seem to realise this as you are writng the article, but a diverse range of form factors for windows 10, is essential for first and third party development in the path to becoming a next gen OS.  This is just reading FAR too much into what msft is doing, in focusing on long overdue bugfixes IMO. Obviously they have work to do in other areas, there is a need to focus on andromeda and windows on arm, and the new console UI, cshell and so on, and if windows 10 mobile is to be a success again, it will probably be via success in other areas (like woa and andromeda), not by the direct application of pressure. 
    And also there's the whole thing of, well if we are not going to be market leaders in mobile for at least awhile, its about time we really addressed these other platforms. While is why MSFT is very focused in public talks about being inclusive of iOS and Android. IDK what the future of current phones is, but I do know that nobody in the history of business has done what you have just described.
  • Nor has any company created a common core for all form factors. Windows 10 Mobile is Windows 10 in a way, but Windows 10 is just Windows 10. Windows 10 on ARM with CShell better reflects what Microsoft has communicated thier One OS for all form factors than the pared down version, Windows 10 Mobile. To get its true vision in the market, it's likely thier plan to get the failed pared down vision out of the market. No company in history has ever done what I suggest Microsoft is doing. This is true.it is also true no company in history has been in the unique position to do what I propose it is doing.😉
  • I can't see any valid justification for "getting windows 10 mobile out of the market". That just makes zero sense to me. Those customers are customers you want on your side, to eventually purpose your new product. Companies don't "get consumers out of the market", they just release new products. Any customer is a good customer. Progress is a process of drawing people in, and delibrately giving bad customer support is just a bad idea. Plus, I see no evidence of it. the effort they put into win10m, is perfectly reflective of its profitability and marketshare, and the number of other projects and plans MSFT has. It's a clear, logical case for "on the backburner" if ever I saw one.  Although i agree one windows, with cshell is the long term plan, I don't think they'll be releasing that any time soon on mobile, but rather andromeda, a sibling of win10m - that's where my research has lead me and it makes sense, WoA, on a phone only really comes into its own if it can be used without docking, and long term win32 is going the way of the dodo anyway. WoA itself is just a bridge, its not an end game. Win32 is the past. Actually WoA is supposed to help uwp, not win32 - by running win32 under slower emulation, native uwp becomes preferable to consumers and developers. And by offering always connected LTE, ios ports become more appealing. In a very direct sense, WoA is backwards compatibility. Supporting the old, in order to enable the future. A way to herd users and developers over to the windows store and full UWP. And if win32s are converted to full UWP - windows on arm, makes itself redundant. You see the key to "a computer in your pocket", isn't legacy software. Its the UWP platform.  I'd not be surprised if they strip win32 from the consumer version of windows 10 soon, and replace home with windows s, and eventually a version of windows 10 that only runs full UWP -which is the opposite direction to how many here are calling it. AFAIK, WoA is the exact opposite of how people here often think of it - a temporary bridge to encourage UWP and iOS ports, and make win32, and itself as an emulation redundant, so that the consumer versions of mainstream windows can slowly eliminate win32 and silverlight etc, altogether, so that over time, all that remains is UWP. Like a console running the last versions software, until it gets more of a game catalogue.  Its not for win32 IMO. Its for chasing users and devs through the cattle fences like a sheep dog and getting rid of it. In the long term, our "one windows" might be as much like win10m, as it is windows 10, or indeed a little like neither of them. I think the future of windows is probably something more like a cross between windows s, and windows10m, than it is windows pro - which will become a special niche variant for gamers, coders and enterprise who still want to use exes.  
  • Well I think probably even Jason would agree with you that what he wrote doesnt make sense, but yet his fantasies about Surface phone do generate traffic so may be thats the mandate from his bosses. now what do you write abt something abt which MS is absolutely tight lipped, well spin your own fantasies about surface phone, so some ridiculous comparisions with trees, high school romance blah blah blah.
  • Techiez I appreciate the fact that you consistently devote irrecoverable time of your finite life to visiting and commenting on my articles. In life the things to which we devote our time are usually the things we value. You are a faithful attendee of my articles. Thank you for giving me and WC time that could otherwise be spent on other things of value like family, friends hobbies, etc. So despite the "apparent" insults, you consistently choose to be here. Thank you for valuing your time here above other ways you could be spending it. It speaks volumes.😉
  • Oh I obviously value windows 10 mobile, but cant stand these ridiculous fatasy pieces so I tried to counter you with facts a few times which u obviously choose to ignore,so I realize may be this is all business, you get directives fromeditors probably to spin these fantasies.
  • Nice retort Jason lol
  • Hi Drael In a piece "Smartphones are dead Part II" which I wrote last year I make the point of UWPs role. I revisited the thought again in Windows 10 S breathes new life into UWP - and paves way to Surface phone https://m.windowscentral.com/windows-10-s-gives-project-centennial-and-u...
  • Perhaps MS are going to fall foul of their own marketing (once again) but I really don't want to hear about Windows 10 S, Windows 10 Mobile, Windows on ARM, CShell. I just want 'Windows' and I want it to work seamlessly everywhere. Sure it could be headless on IoT devices, a tile only/non desktop UI on mobile devices or full blown desktop - but all the different flavours are bad old MS again. Fluid, easy, adaptive - that's what I want Windows to be. The days of multiple editions is surely over and simplicity is the order of the day..?
     
  • Jason.. I see you have blatantly, and intentionally, corrected me SPECIFICALLY about saying " Windows on Phone"... Lol. Well, I almost had the right idea. Thanks for the perspective.😂😂😂
  • LOL.. correcting myself!😉 I've used it the term too., and it's applicable until Windows 10 Mobile. For Windows 10 on ARM on an ultimate mobile device Windows-on-mobile is most appropriate, and it applies to all phases of Windows phone. 🙂
  • Our refusal to give up WP is part of the problem? Well, that never stopped Microsoft from screwing us over, did it? At this point they can basically say "the hell with all of you" and close Windows Store and none of us would be surprised. Then you'd come out and half applaud the move as "moving on towards the brighter future" and Dan would justify the move as "it was financially unjustifiable" and "didn't fit their strategy" (he used to say that a lot to support a rosy Windows 10 Mobile strategy, and now even that is over!)
  • No, actually I wouldn't. But as a long-time fan that has endured the ups and downs and current dismal state o the platform.I understand your frustration.😉
  • "Naturally, this passionate support and evangelizing of Windows phones work to counter Microsoft's process of pruning actual phones and the idea of Windows phones from the market and our collective consciousness." Honestly. These are all skewed views trying to blame the community for anything really. If the community's evangelism (which stopped to make sense 2 years ago) is the problem that prevents Microsoft from "pruning", how do you explain this: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/collections/Mobilelist?cat0=device... They want these devices to fade from our collective consciousness at the same time they are selling them on their own website?
  • Exactly. This notiong of MSFT intentionally "killing win10m" has no basis. Its invented. If MSFT wanted to do that, they could do so very easily - stop all support, stop doing updates, cease selling phone - but why would they? To fight a public reputation with bad customer service when nobody even knows they make phones in the first place? Mental loops and hoops!
  • Windows 10 Mobile at this point, with on 20% of 1% market (not their original intent) is their "testing ground" for what Myerson said is Microsoft's investment in continued investments in ARM and cellular.
    He stated the difficulty of getting back into this space if the company stopped completely. So with a bunch of loyal insiders passionately dog fooding new builds for free MS is, in my estimation, gaining useful data for ARM and cellular on a mobile device that will be implemented in its next phase of Windows on mobile. Also their bound to a certain length of time of proving support, so they can't just stop support. If W10M had been a success (with better marketing and distribution by MS and less saturation and competition) I believe W10M could have led to a smooth transition to WOA and a a category of an ultimate mobile device. It may have even coexisted. It's current state however, leads to the analysis I've presented.
  • How about Windows on the fly?
  • fly?
  • fly?
  • Fly?
  • Nasty echo in here.
  • It's not about WP. Its about UWP! They have not only strangled WP and WM, which would be ok, but more devastatingly the all-important platform of the future. We have seen it before, ironically with Nokia, who made sure to speed up their own death by announcing that they were standing on a burning platform. After that infamous letter by Stephen Elop, they did come out and project to sell hundreds of millions of smartphones, but by then the market had caught on and no one was any longer interested in buying Nokia smartphones. Microsoft, ironically, tried to do much the same thing as Nokia and did just as poor a job at it. A couple of years ago, they came out and said that there would be focus on only three market segments going forward. But the way it was communicated then and afterwards, they might as well have come right out and said "we're shutting it all down, Windows Phone is dead" - because that is what the public got out of it. It amazes me how every time Microsoft makes a shift, they manage to make the story about how something is being abandoned and not about the new and flashy thing that is supposed to replace the old thing. Skype on Android and iOS is one of the latest examples, but there have been so many: Universal messaging, Xbox Music, OneDrive placeholders, Windows Maps (replacing HERE), Wunderlist, aso. In each of those instances they managed to generate stories about how the old thing was being shut down, often because they shut it down before announcing the next thing. HERE maps was particularly silly, as that happened only weeks before it was announced that Windows Maps would receive a big makeover, but nothing was said about it when HERE was announced dead. My point is that Microsoft needs to become better at these transitions. Very often it means keeping the old thing alive until the new one can replace the old, and make sure the public knows this. With Todo (replacing Wunderlist) I saw most bloggers wondering what was going on, not having understood that Todo was actually being built by the Wunderlist team as a successor. This is clearly on Microsoft for not communicating well enough. With Windows Phone, my opinion is that they should have done a better job of keeping it alive in the interim - and paid the price for the investment. If the idea is that they want developers to buy in to UWP, they needed W10M for developers to practice on, come with feedback, etc. They could have shut down support for the old Silverlight based apps, but they should have kept UWP alive. Without WP, there is no U in UWP,
  • "Every smartphone is a mobile device but every mobile device is not a smartphone" doesn't make any sense. You should say "Every smartphone is a mobile device but NOT every mobile device is a smartphone".
  • If you imagine windows on arm WITHOUT the emulation layer for win32s - add cshell, and mature the UWP platform and a niche variant that still allows exe's (pro/enterprise)- that I think is the future of windows.
     Exe's are a power user function, basic users don't need them in the long run. They don't need access to the registry or program files or niche legacy software. Even enterprise could use a terminal shell for that stuff. They just need their software converted to full UWP. Offfice, browswer, music and video apps, console style games, abobe etc. Done, no more win32 needed, except for power users and devs. In that sense, once silverlight is eliminated, in some ways win10m is more closely aligned with the future than windows 10 itself - because its a UWP platform. 
  • I'm in pain. Serious pain. If I had to buy an iPhone or an android device my life would be tainted. I love windows because it's clean. It's fun and everything else I own is Ms. Hate apple and android is messy. So what are my option. Become a non smart phone user which is I'm possible in this day and age or just stick with my 950 until it dies. Microsoft better get back in the game one way or another. Risky strategy to purge and restart but Ms are no amateurshopefully they'll get it right this time for something that was never that wrong to begin with
  • "We're part of the problem"
    I simply don't buy that. If Microsoft was concerned that Windows phone fan support was impeding their (clandestine) plan to proceed with yet another reboot of their mobile efforts, I'd expect that they'd make a public announcement to the effect that a) they will sunset the current incarnation of Windows 10 Mobile, and b) that they are working on something even better, so remaining fans of the platform could temper their enthusiasm. However, given Microsoft's track record on making hollow promises (e.g. upgrade path for Windows Phone 8.1 devices to Windows 10 Mobile), I'd not be surprised if Windows phone fans had trouble believing such assurances.
  • I am old enough to of had and used everyday a Microsoft Pocket PC, the last one I had was a Stellar XDA, I also remember both Microsoft and Nokia basically laughing at Apple when they said they were going to make a phone, how wrong they both have proved to have been, after my Stellar XDA I had a HTC thingy running Windows, sadly after that my daily driver became an iPhone, I still have a Nokia 930 running Windows mobile 10, its a really good OS but you put it next to the other two main OS and it is shocking how far behind Microsoft are! and not just with the apps either, the best they can hope for now is a Microsoft phone running Android with a Windows 10 UI, don't scoff! why not? it is the only way for them to catch up and take a real meaningful bite out of the mobile market, the other choice is to give up.
  • Hi Jason, I agree MS is trying to purge the negative memory bro the consumer consciousness, but I think it can and is doing that successfully by simply not taking about it or releasing anymore phones (for now). But I think (admittedly hpe) your article goes too far in suggesting that MS intends to kill off Windows 10 Mobile smart phones as we currently know them. That would be unnecessarily damaging to MS's relationships with big companies like HP and even here in Japan where Softbank, Juana and Mouse computers continue to sell Windows 10 Mobiles, it would also waste what is actually a very solid and reliable OS and the remains developers that support what remains of its ecosystem. I think the Surface Phone will be everything you said, but like its laptop /tablet siblings it will at as a flagship for potentially a fleet if cheaper devices with subsets or cheaper versions of the surface phone features. That would be a much more sensible way to go, and doing so will have no effect outside insider and Windows Phone fan circles until they launch (what they will indeed argue us beyond a smartphone).
  • Thanks for some positive feedback 
  • The problem is lack of proper communication from Microsoft I think...they'er like a autistic child capable doing brilliant things but unable to communicate :) I think they obsess too much with overall corporate stategy... when you're building products for consumers...if you fanatically focus on what customers wish for and evolve the product....the business strategy and proper design will automatically fall in place, no? :)
  • They fckd up too many times to be able to purge all the negativity. Too late for that! Users and devs have lost faith in them. I'll never invest my money again into any pocket/phone/whatever device from MS...been a guinea pig for their experiments long enough...tired of their mediocre quality, lies and zero commitment. Maybe I'll take a look what's going on when Nutella in no longer CEO, but until then, happy failing Microsoon, as you always did in the past 6 years!
  • Assumptions, assumptions...
  • -edit: Still can't delete comment via app-
  • Harsh but true and we need that delete feature right now.
  • .
  • No, like really. I've had these thoughts for quite some time now, but it's time for MS to make their move. I'm really hoping for it!
  • Of, course... Does he claim fact?
  • In Hindi/Urdu there is small type of poem called "Sher" Its generally has like 4-8 lines. There was a legendary Indian poet called Ghalib whose one sher is very popular and it goes like this.  "Dil Ko Behlane Ke Liye Ghalib Ye Khayal Achha Hai, Ke Humne Kabhi Aapko Chaha Nahin, Ab Sannaate Ki Gunj Humse Puchti Hai, ‘Bataa Tera Hum-Safar Kahan Hai?" Most important and most famous in India day-to-day language is first line which literally means "To beguile your heart, this thought is good." The reamining poem means "To beguile your heart, even this though is good that I didn't love you.... Now the echo of silence asks me where is your lover" ;). Just thought of it after reading first few lines. :) Will read the whole essay now.
  • This is me being so philosophical. Usual when I'm high.
  • maybe a question is: does Microsoft 'need' a mobile/phone device to compete, be part of the market? iPhone and android have it stitched up tight at present. is the hand set a gimmicky type of accessory right now or will something really revolutionary break out? if its a gimmicky type of thing then id say to MS don't bother, you'll lose. if, on the other hand, they have something revolutionary in terms of mobile communication then jump in. but things like foldable phones is just another gimmick. MS has to do something very special to capture or retake its place in the market, at present i don't think it has either - but what the hell do I know! its like moving from gas street light to electric street light or from crossing land by train to flying. anything less is a gimmick, i think.
  • I'd say the answer is yes, they need it. The smartphone is no gimmick. It is becoming more and more the primary computing platform people use most. That will only continue further as the power you can hold in your hand and put in your pocket increases. I dont doubt that at some point we will all be docking our "phones" and using them as PCs or laptops. I dont think we will be running Windows when we do that, however. The future will be an extension of the phone, not an extension of the desktop. Home automation, wearables, health devices like blood pressure cuffs and glucose monitors, virtually every new piece of tech coming along now talks to a phone, not a PC. High quality VR is currently tied to a PC (or playstation), but the pressure is on to cut the cord. Once that happens, Windows will be out of the loop. Samsung already has Oculus on a mobile based device - Google has its daydream platform. Apple is coming on strong with AR, you guessed it - tied to a phone and its ecosystem.  No, the smartphone is no fad.  Microsoft missed the boat on mobile and will be on the sidelines, relegated to enterprise only. 
  • We currently live in a world where the smart phone market is tied to two large companes with a lot of financial muscle. Microsoft might not need a phone, but consumers need additional competition to stimulate the market.music  
  • I am not sure how or if Microsoft can break into the public market with a phone but business wise they can. My company sells mainly Dell & hp hardware we have for years in the desktop and laptop sector but what I have noticed is quite a few of our customers tried using iPads to replace laptops because of them being portable and good battery life issue is is they were very limited. We then started to suggest the surface from the 3 and they have cought on very well and we now still quite alot of them who need portability. If and its a big if Microsoft can create a surface that's powerful like a surface pro with a screen the size of a galaxy note but you dock it and it works as a full pc I can see this being massive in the business world. The issue is price. We do sell alot of surface devices but they are for a type of users alot use low cost desktops or laptops depending what the need to do and this is one thing I think 3rd party's will need to look at. If they can make a mobile device perform as well as a £300 pc and one that will perform as well as a surface pro at full price then they could be into a winner but there are lots of if buts and maybes
  • Actually, the statement that followed your question actually highlights the very point this column is making about Mircosoft removing windows phone from our collective consciensness " maybe a question is: does Microsoft 'need' a mobile/phone device to compete, be part of the market? iPhone and android have it stitched up tight at present ". I could be reading incorrectly.  But it would suggest you're putting any difference of form factor on the same standing as mobile OS's of iPhone and Android. I've often read comments which leave me amazed that Windows Phone fans don't seem to make the distinction, that the so called surface mobile, the ultra mobile pc with telephony is spoken in terms of iPhone, android.  When from everything I read it's nothing like that that is a mobile 'phone' as it stands today. If iPhone and Android are the measure by which windows phone fans are understanding this game changing, redefining mobile device. What chances do the average consumers have of every understanding the defining difference on hearing 'windows + mobile = windows mobile.   The only chance is to remove it from the collective conscience.
  • I don't think a foldable phone is a gimmick at all if its seamless, transparent (in function) and used like we have seen on numerous commercials and TV shows.  We know Samsung is working on it too.  If its designed right, it will be a revolution.  If its designed wrong, you won't even be able to hear the crickets in the room.
  • A consumer graphene screen is probably a decade off. Samsung and MSFT both co-own a patent, and have made protos. but the manu cost for graphene is amazingly expensive. When first released it will be an enterprise product, like the first cellphones. It will take a long time to bring that cost down, and make it consumer. But yes, its absolutely not a gimmick. Being able to effectively run a large screen UI, out of a pocket device, ala say, windows is very powerful for some people, and graphene screens are also virtually indescructible (the material will be used for bullet proof vests), so in addition to folding or scrolling large screens out of small forms, and thus using big screen UI, and big screen power for professionals, its also a way of making phones that can't be smashed. 
  • They need a small screen device pocket device, in order to have first and third party development for their next gen OS concept, 0D to 4D. That concept requires multiple input, output, form factors in the market to create.  They don't however need to sell cellphones for any other reason. Smartphones are a temporary form factor. They also as a market have peaked.They'll be replaced by bigger screens via folding and wearable devices. Before that happens profits will sink. Thusly the ecosystem and platform of those devices will become redundant, as they are not engineered or developed for bigger screens primarily. And MSFT has loads of consumer and enterprise income streams, as well as investment in emerging markets like VR.  So yes, msft needs a small screen device, but for its future hybrid OS plans, and not for any of the reasons people usually say.   
  • Dropped and broke my 950 XL this week, so I hope MS figures out what they want to be when they grow up! Luckily, I have a 950 as a backup and have not missed a beat. Rest of family has moved to iOS, but I'm holding out.
  • I'm like you, but MS will just abuse you for your passion. Windows fans, bend over and prepare for yet another rodgering.
  • I'm not angry at MS. I dont see them as abusing anyone. They didnt want to lose in mobile. I dont agree with a lot of steps they took, but I think they did what they thought was the best move to be successful - sometimes that means cutting dead weight thats costing you money and using your dev resources so you can make it in the long run. 
  • Maybe they didn't want to lose, but they just didn't care.
  • Hey MS, peaple use and expect real products, not marketing talks. Its so simple.
  • yahuh, need a real roadmap, not speculation
  • Qualcomm and Intel just announced their eSIM enabled LTE offerings at computex this year. This fall is the earliest we'll get insight into what MS have planned on these two Always On / Always connected PCs. Hopefully in a courier form factor.
  • People do not need roadmaps or speculation.  They just need to pick up their phone and use it. If you want a windows phone, they can be found/had. And they work. You really don't need emotional reassurance to use a product, especially one that can be had for quite cheap. 
    If your issue is apps/developers - buy apps and games on tablet, deskop and phone and support them.  If you issue is you aren't happy with the OS, as is, and demand some other new feature, well then either be patient and see what happens, or buy another platform.
  • The emotional issue is constantly wondering if apps you rely on will be shut down. If not for that, WM10 is not a bad experience, as long as you have the apps/websites to what you need to do.
  • That issue is more to blame on the developers than Microsoft, also most apps that splashed across the headline for dropping returns back again in another format.
  • Agreed
  • No, MS people expect to be treated like tripe. It's the usual experience round here...
  • I decided last week to leave Windows Mobile, because I am not believing in mystic silence. Sad, as it was the technical most advanced and developer Friendly System. Killed by Microsoft, Sellers and press
  • Did the same thing. Went into a MS store and only saw android devices. Said to myself why am I using this OS when the software manufacture does not believe in it enough to stock it in their store... Picked up the Nokia 6 and will give android a try until something better comes along.
  • No way, my friend. They are DONE in the consumer market.
  • MSFT earns 3 billion in net profit per quarter from consumer games alone. A significant portion of their revenue stream is the consumer market. They just aren't 100 percent eggs in one basket like google and apple. 
  • At this point, I am not sure Microsoft is pruning branches, chopping down tries, setting forest fires, planting new seeds.....I think MS is going the route of hoping their pollen will luckily land somewhere that will allow a new path of growth. The wind, the seasons, the landscape must be favorable, or the pollen will just be swept away, ending up in the same foliage as the forest they've burned down prior. Cmon MS.....don't force me into Android! You've got 6 months to come up with something.
  • Really cool concept.
  • The negativity appears to stem from MS,never seen a company that has so little regard for its customers. Still rocking my L930 long may it last 😃.
  • Yep. The fans did their best. Unfortunately, Nadella just laughed.
  • Nadella is a catastrophe to Windows on phones.  Ballmer was just getting there with the purchase of Nokia, them Nadela came in and destroyed all of Ballmer's work... so sad...
  • Actually Ballmer was trying to cover his ass after totally missing the mobile revolution and refusing to recognize Apple and then Google were onto the next big thing. His only concern was old school Windows and Office installations.
  • True!
  • Ballmer wasn't all mistakes. Win8 laid the groundwork for win10. The surface RT lead to the surface pro, zune was a stepping stone to windows 10, and ballmer was the one that co-developed the graphene screen tech with samsung, they now both co-own the patent for. Yeah, mobile did not do well under him, but he did lay the groundwork for a lot of things. 
  • If Windows mobile didn't do well under Ballmer, at least he didn't take out a gun and shoot it like Nadella did.
  • Ballmer took out the gun and shoot all the other OEMs. That is why all the other OEMs were shied away from Windows Mobile because of the close tie to Nokia and later on owning it, essentially turning Microsoft a rival to all of them. No OEM is dump enough to waste money developing phones that help to promote their rival because there is no Windows Mobile AOSP to be customized to their own branding.   So the choice is to go against every OEM in the world like Blackburry, or do it like Windows/Surface style getting all your generals in line with you to take on the other platforms? Guess which one Nadella chose?
  • Nadella is a Sharp Shooter, he wasted Windows phone worse than the guy on Grand Theft Auto
  • Are you kidding?  Ballmer was a train wreck!
  • #CBA
  • I work remotely and had an opportunity to work with some colleagues earlier this week and I explained to the group Microsoft's vision with continuum, cshell, x86 emulation etc. They were pretty intrigued by it, most we're interested to move onto that capability. Two with iPhones were big Apple fans and hoped Apple would have something similar one day.
  • cshell, why is everyone so impressed by something that's 2 years late? win10 was supposed to have a unified experience at launch across multiple platforms and it had anything but that. now we're supposed to hold out and be impressed by this delayed feature
  • Microsoft should credit every windows phone value to those who want to adopt the "new" surface/Windows mobile paradigm and buy the new device. No depreciation (if the WM10 phone is still usable), just the full value of their old phone as a credit, out of loyalty. iOS and android users should also have a trade-in program, but a normal one (based on the depreciation). That would reconcile (a bit, I hope) MW10 users with the lack of social skills MS has had towards their loyal pissed-off fan base. And not just in the USA!!!! Worldwide.
  • Honestly I think that they are doing that for that exact reason. Think about it, Windows 10 gets support from developers not Windows Mobile 10. So why not create something mobile that works as a phone to running Windows 10. Did you hear Dona Sarkar said on Windows Weekly? She know what's about to happen with this. Just watch her and listen.
  • Sorry, did you pay the royalty for using the Coming Soon™?
  • Because win32s would be stupid on a mobile sized screen, docking your phone has been an incredibly niche application and the graphene screens to make that kind of UI useable on a pocket device is at least a decade from being affordable to consumers. Why? Because its a bad idea. 
  • Win32s with 'interface' developed for a desktop would be less optimum on a mobile sized screen. You are confused about the thing you see on the screen than the underlying validity to run the program. The interface can be modified easily compare to writing the whole application for the specific platform. If the WoA is out, the apps situation will be much more healthier than the W8 situation.
  • And if it was a full UWP, it'd also be secure, scale, use toast notifications, and run across hardware platforms. Switch some APIs, and you have a modern app, rather than a legacy app. Win32 is the past. WoA emulation is "backwards compatibility". UWP will run better on it, by at least 30 percent speed. 
  • My company gave me a phone and forced me into the Android side of things. Using a GS8 as my daily driver but decided to boot up my Lumia 950 today. There are still so many things that I love about Windows 10 Mobile vs Android. The only thing that I really do like about this Samsung phone is the fingerprint scanner (never have had one on a phone before) and the much quicker iris scanning. On top of that a trusted bluetooth device can keep your phone unlocked. A few more gestures (like pulling down while action center is open to expand) would be nice as well. The worst part is so many things with Windows 10 Mobile worked right out of the box. I didn't need an extra app to read text to me when connected to blue tooth in my car (which I still can't get to work on Android and gave up on). Cortona integration with Windows 10 seemed smoother. From home screen that actually gave me some information to live folders that just kept things looking fresher than static icons. Outlook mail, in my opinion, is much more thought out. While I wasn't a fan of it while I had it, I am now that I miss it.  What I'm getting at is that Microsoft did so much right in my eyes that of course it is hard to just mark it off. No one took them seriously for reasons other than the OS itself at first which will not change on the reboot (which is part of the reason why it isn't taken seriously). While I would be a person that will buy into it again. I don't know for sure that the people skeptical of Windows 10 Mobile in the first place will buy into it for all the same reasons as before. Leading us right back to where we left off.  
  • Iris is faster, yes, but that is mostly due to faster processor, and really, not as good (can easilly be fooled)
  • Ah yes, the weekly Surface Phone article from Jason. His Surface Phone articles are becoming increasingly stupid every week. He actually expects us to believe that there is a deliberate plan to kill Windows 10 Mobile so that they can make a grand re-entry with Windows 10 on ARM. How delusional can you be? 
  • Upvoted. But don't worry, they will do it and pack PC power on a small device. At least it's in their labs now.
  • At one point I found his wild speculation useful, in parts. Now, I agree this is getting a little ridiculous. No one delibrately kills off a userbase, in business - previous customers are assets. People have not even heard of windows phone, so his rationale, not that it makes sense to begin with, doesn't have a leg to stand on. 
  • If their plan is indeed to present a new product category, an ARM-based mobile device running full Windows 10 running CShell, and to establish as their strategy that as Nadella says they are not making device like the guys smartphones it behoves them to get the devices that ARE like the other guys smartphones out of the market. The presence in the market of devices that don't represent the vision that they want to put forth and have failed (Windows 10 Mobile devices) while attempting to establish the vision if a new category of device (Windows 10 on ARM) that they WILL want the industry, OEM partners and consumers to recognize would be confusing to the market, and present an unfocused vision. Company's kill products that they deem aren't working all the time.
  • There's no guarantee whatsoever their next idea will be successful. Everything in business is a risk, you hedge your bets. what you are proposing is that they set fire to their house, before they have any guarantee of being able to buy or build a new one - because they want a new one. And given they are selling, and actively putting out updates for win10m, what evidence is their exactly that they are trying "to kill" win10m? If they were doing that, even though I can make zero sense in it, they'd have stopped doing both those things, and they wouldn't have promised new features to win10m users at build either. There is nothing confusing to the market about win10m, other than they don't know that it exists. 
  • Hi Drael the reason for the continued investments I believe is for the just over 20% of us who are part of the 1% are the beta testers fir what Terry Myerson stated are the company's continued investments in Cellular and ARM. As a who we voraciouly consume any updates they out from which they can clean data and feedback about the OS, performance, usage etc. This data and info can the n be used to shape how they bring their next phase of Windows on mobile, an ARM based Windows platform with cellular capabilies. What better source to collect that data than from avid fans who will dog food your OS and features you want to implement for free.
  • what they've done is equivalent to Ford telling everyone to quit buying cars in order that their next "thing" that has a motor and four wheels will be successful. Just look at the folks here that are ticked off at MS. And each comment represents even more silent voices. To use the analogy again, Ford didn't quit selling cars after the Pinto and a couple other weak vehicles. They didn't tell people to quit buying cars. They built better cars. MS should not squander and take for granted the wishes of its customers. Regardless of how cool another device will be, it shouldn't take for granted that those of us who like their products will be there to buy it. A lot of folks who have left will not be back. I know that companies pull bad products all the time, but we're not talking about a toaster or coffee pot.     
  • Well just when I think he cant be more delusional, he beats me to it, comes up with more crap, whatever MS is doing Jason will give uutermost stupid reason to support, sometimes he calls it highschool romance and now he compares it to pruning? absolute rubbish it is. you prune diseased twigs, leaves etc but there is no correlation to the OS, they need a reasonable user base to build upon, or else devs wont come, if at all he wants to compare he shd have compared wp8.1/W10m to a sapling which needed nurturing so it could grow and bear fruit but no MS is an impatient garndener which needs instant results.
  • Thank you for the article, but wasn't it just a circuitous way of explaining that, once again, MS will be scrapping one mobile OS for the implementation of another? 
  • Good question Wunderhund...but no, historically from Pocket PC(for phone), Windows Mobile, Windows Phone and Windoes 10 Mobile MS did replace one essentially smartphone OS for another and placed it on smartphones and pitted it against rivals smartphones. What I'm proposing here is something different this time around. MS I believe is trying to kill the "idea" and "memory" of Windows on smartphones because of the negativity it bears as it brings Windows to a mobile device that is not a smartphone. I believe MS is attempting to bring a new concept (this the intentional wording in the title) to the mobile, not smartphone, space. For that new concept tonto take root, the negativity of the smartphone failures must be purged so that Windows on what Nadella calls an ultimate mobile device might be better received. So its not just replace one OS with another, it's bringing full Windows to an as yet unintroduced mobile category.
  • Whatever they bring will be seen as a smartphone by most people, I think that's the biggest issue they face.
  • Semantics isn't the key to this fight. Experiences are. Microsoft needs an experience that makes everything else antiquated. Can they do that with Windows?
  • TECHNICAL/SITE MGT: Didn't mean to report. The thumbs up button isn't working properly, so I am of the mind that you are right here.
  • Choose three random people, on a main street. Ask them about windows phone. They will know nothing about it. This negative PR you imagine, only exists in a minority of largely irrelevant people. Consumers as a whole, are a complete blank slate regarding windows phones already. Not that culling your most likely future customers (past customers) is something any one actually does. 
  • That's silly. The "negativity" is the common perception that WM lacks key apps. Throwing away their customer base does nothing to fix that. I'm not sure that "pocket PC" will fix it either unless Google, Snapchat etc. are forced onto the platform due to PC market. Do you have any thoughts on the likelihood of that? It would be much more helpful information.
  • Thanks for your response, Jason, but whether it's called "mobile" or "smartphone," it's still a rose by any other name.  For the way we use mobile devices today, it's either a voice-enabled handheld device that you can fit in your pocket or it's not.  From my seat in the peanut gallery, I see Microsoft gearing itself to become even more like an IBM or Oracle than an Apple or Google.  I suspect their focus in years to come to be engineering and software solutions for cloud-computing, SaaS, etc and less and less consumer products-based -- creating and developing the things that make a car go, but they will leave the business of building and marketing the car to someone else. 
  • Can't wait for the article about how it is all in Microsoft's plan when they start killing CShell in order to transition to something new.
  • You wont have to wait too long, heard CShell is quite buggy currently, and then Jason Ward will come up with some more stupid non sense to defendeven that
  • I dont' think we are part of the problem, per se.. at least not everyone. I don't know about you guys, but I am open to a new direction for Microsoft to take with its mobile device. I think what angers people, is that the phone says "Huge potential" every pixel of the screen, and that is why it manages to have a solid core fan base (I don't mean fanboys... fanboys are people who blindly defend anything they are attached to), and still has apps and many are still supported. I never saw this kind of support from BlackBerry side. I think we welcome the new direction, and we all know the real solution is "to come on the side", simialrly to how Google penetarted the PC space with Chromebooks instead of being a direct competitor to a PC with a different OS. The reason why we are demanding, and why we get angry, or express disapointement, is that we want the "Surface Phone/Mobile dvice" to be released with a solid OS. I remember when the Lumia 950/950XL was released. Windows 10 Mobile was in beta stages, and that killed many reviews of the device. It did manage to get people talking, and initialy burst of high sales of the device helped, but the many issues (beside the lack of apps), really didn't help at taking off the device. Microsoft needs to have their next mobile device, whatever it is, to be ground breaking, and bring a steller presentation, much like the iPhone was on day 1. I never read that the Settings panel was crashing on the original iPhone, I never heard about serious focusing issues with the camera. Nothing said "beta OS" when using it. I think if Microosft tomorrow releases C-Shell on Windows 10 Mobile, even if it is a buggy mess, as long as it would be somewhat usable, most of its fan base would be glad to report all the issues. Sure some will complain and cry and pull a massive drama because there is 1 bug in the Insider Fast Ring build... but I beleive those are few.   All I can think about for teh Radio silence, is that Microosft doesn't want to share any plans to the public. They dont' want Google or Samsung to be ready with a reply. Both companies are ready to dump billions for a solution within weeks. And people will go with what they are familiar with.. Android, instead of giving Windows 10 (Mobile) a spin.
  • I agree, but I would add one thing. Whatever MS does next MUST work on Verizon.
  • Windows 10 Mobile may be dead, but my Lumia gets more updates than my Android phone.
  • You don't see the Android updates because they happen in the background. Google updates all Google Play phones every 6 weeks or so. That is how apps stay compatible even with devices that are several years old.
  • Yes, but I mean the OS updates. I get a notification when a new version is available and then I have to install it manually.
  • Same here.  My 950xl receives an update a month or so, but my Lenovo Android tablet received one in the one year I've got it and it was an upgrade to Android 6 (a couple months after Android 7 was released) and Lenovo needed to wipe the content of the tablet for that upgrade so had to backup photos, music and reinstall all my apps after... Lenovo is one of the worst for Android updates... never again I'm buying Lenovo for Android.
  • On insiders preview, I get updates pretty much every week. 
  • Only the morons at Microsoft could come up with such a stupid strategy, piss off, abandon and drive away your mobile users then hope to get them back with some "miracle" device later.
  • Yep, that's Nutella style!
  • Trust me, no one is business would do this. It's the sort of thing fans come up with, and god knows why. 
  • Well you know why, it has nothing to do with MS. Jason tried his hand at different topics and guess the viewership, quite low, so he keeps coming back to spinning fantasies abt surface phone. Ppl havent forgotten Zune and Kin and this dude talks about pruning customers so new ones can be "grown" :P  
  • I'm still struggling to see the difference between a "Surface Phone" and a 5" tablet with a sim card.  
  • There isn't one. Jason claims Microsoft key to success is semantics. That isn't how they become successful. They "just" need a truly revolutionary product. Anything less will fail no matter what they call it or how hard they market it.
  • That's exactly the point, merging PC, tablet and phone into a device which is everything and can't be said to be one thing only... Current tablets I know which have sim cards are only using sim for data plan, not for making calls.
  • for this to work, the eSIM has to be integrated into all of their devices, not just the flagship or high-end versions. I don't honestly see why this hasn't been brought to market before now. Must be technical.
  • MSFT is not going to make a phone running win32s unless it has a projector or something. Docking a device so you can use a feature, is just not going to go mainstream. Graphene is a decade or more off being consumer affordable/ready. The whole 'windows on arm, on a phone', may be a long term goal, but it I cannot see how it would be a short term one. 
  • So if they do wot happens with my phones
  • It's a great concept, but what if OEM support picks up? People will simply lump the "ultimate mobile device" alongside any future smartphone attempts by the likes of Alcatel, HTC or HP. The distinctive UI would be the factor that leads to this generalisation that Microsoft's ultimate mobile device is, ultimately, a smartphone. However, I live in hope that this will work out brilliantly and bring a strong third player to the mobile market!
  • Whatever the UMD is, it is unlikely that MS will want to be the major manufacturer. There are two models to be considered:
         1. The Surface aproach where MS manufactures Aspirational devices, leaving room fo and supporting OEMs.
         2. The Google Nexus approach, where MS wouild choose and OEM for manufacture, implementing MS's pure vision, with MS directly updating often.  
  • Nothing in technology is "ultimate". Its always replaced in time by something better. This article is a bunch of smoke and fairy dreams IMO. Nobody has a clue what MSFT is planning with win10m, beyond that they have some kind of new form device in the works. 
  • The key lies in this one phrase: "... Oh, and it'll make phone calls and send/receive sms text on any network too."
    I.e. Phone functionality must become an afterthought. That's where the future is, and Apple and Google know it too. Not to mention that with the ability to pin a webpage to your start screen with Edge (undoubtedly heavily integrated into any ultra-mobile device from Microsoft), you can replace any app you can't find in the store. The infrastructure is already in place.
  • Microsoft has f$%&ed this up beyond all belief. Throwing millions of current (and many former) loyal users under the bus is no way to generate good will towards the next version of mobile. Unless they have some kind of "Men in Black" memory erasing device, we are never going to forget this treatment.
  • If you were a sane company with a credible device concept, you'd surely talk about it within 2 years of launching its OS. There is no visible way forwards. Windows Mobile and Surface Phone are simply dead. As another fall and Christmas loom ahead, and as nothing emerges, the future for Windows will look very bleak indeed even to its most ardent and adherent fans. 
     
  • What would you have MS do? Say "We're working on it" or "Coming Soon"? When it became clear to MS that W10M was not going to be viable, they announced that they were falling back and waiting. Then they did just that.  Windows on arm will be MS's mobile future and the Ultimate Mobile Device (UMD) will be based on it. Until W10arm is ready there is no UMD. There is no up side to MS talking about or showing prototypes. MS needs to announce and release when ready. There is no reasonable expectation the even the newest windows phones (950, HP E3, Idol 4s) will somehow converted to a UMD. Any current windows phones are stop gaps. MS can make them available to current users, as replacements for broken phones, but will generate nothing but ill will if they market them. Later buyers will feel betrayed that they were sold a phone that MS knew was a dead end.   
  • I would have them communicate their unequivocal intention regarding Windows Mobile and Surface Phone. As you seem to know what's happening it should be super easy for MS.  
  • You can have your win32's running on a six inch screen, or via a dock, I'll have no part of it and have no interest in it. UWP is the scaling app platform of the future of windows.
  • Your reasons should have started with lack of commitment from Microsoft. That was cause of the problem. Consumer and developer lack of interest was just a symptom of Microsoft's missteps and neglect. It was easily destined to be the best OS out there with sufficient effort. It could have easily been the number two OS with effort also. This was a long string of inexcusable screw ups. Getting rid of all the apps users and developers and start from scratch. Such a Microsoft way to do things.
  • Microsoft's lack of commitment came after consumers had already shown no interest in WP7. You cannot say Microsoft didn't put everything they had behind WP7. After it flopped, they had no reason to continue that path because there were so few users. If it had been even mildly successful, then they wouldn't have abandoned the platform. Windows Phone 7 flopped because it was the wrong product at the wrong time. Windows users aren't interested in locked down platforms and low spec hardware. They confused their users with "iSheep". Chasing Apple was Microsoft's problem.
  • "Chasing Apple was Microsoft's problem"
  • "Chasing Apple was Microsoft's problem"
  • I don't know that I agree with that. It wasn't (and apparently still isn't) possible to run x86 programs on phones. I found my WinPhone pretty much did what all the others did. The problem was total stonewalling from Google and lack of marketing by Microsoft. I think if MS had focused on keeping their existing customer base happy and building from there, instead of constantly swinging for the fences, they could have built up a sizable user base.
  • https://www.engadget.com/2010/10/18/microsoft-to-spend-one-billion-dolla... http://www.businessinsider.com/nokia-ace-marketing-budget-2012-1 Lack of marketing? That isn't true. It is just an easy excuse to avoid blaming an uncompetitive platform. The biggest issue was Windows Phone itself. It just was never compelling enough to sell in any appreciable numbers. Microsoft didn't have a notable user base for Windows phones. That is why they weren't afraid to reboot. There just wasn't enough users for them to care.
  • Ok. In all seriousness, this is the problem. It is hard to get someone to switch ecosystems and phones because they have already spent a ton on a device and everything that goes along with it. So many of us spent a ton of time and money on Windows Phones, music for it, videos for it, apps for it, accessories for it, etc over many many many years. Up shows this CEO that pulls everything out from under us and does everything to pretty much tell us to hit the bricks and go buy and Android or iPhone, and does this with a pretty much "to bad, don't care how much money you invested" manner behind it. Now trust me. I love Panos and everything he makes. But now that he has chased 90-some % of us die-hard Microsoft loyalist to other platforms, how the hell does it not seem like a hard sell for us to once again, dump more money in his crap, just after he chased us away? Top that with the pile of devices (phones, bands, etc) that I have sitting that he prematurally pulled support for. Now I/we are suppose to tempt fate and jump back in that same pool? This has nothing to do with me hate for the way this CEO has done things. It has to do with a fact that NO ONE in their right mind is going to trust Microsoft's intentions with the monile market with this guy running the show. The only way you are going to possibly even begin to try and convince your fans you won't do it again is if it is under a different leader. Sorry, but that is the stone called hard fact. No one trusts this company under this guy right now.
  • I can't agree more. Even if something awesome comes out, I am not buying the first iteration of it. I am going to wait and see what happens. And this is from a guy who, until recently, had drunk gallons of MS koolaid.
  • Bulls-eye!
  • If MS releases an Ultimate Mobile Device (UMD) they will have the oppertunity to market it and offer customer loyalty programs. Let's see if they do so? SInce the base od windows phone users is small they the costs to offer discounts, pay to replace apps, etc. will be something MS can affors, if they choose to.
  • Now, I don't hate anyone at MS...I agree about not wanting to invest in another ecosystem.  I left iPhone & went to Windows 10 mobile & converted my wife over also.  After a 920 & 1520...I could see no good reason to stick with MS's mobile world.  It didn't totally even sound reasonable to keep investing my money & time into devices that continually wouldn't be supported very much by MS nor reluctant app devleopers.  Many apps didn't exist (Still don't)  I went back & invested in Apple again.  It has been a breath of fresh air.  I'm not the type of person who will just blindly follow the company I'm with now.  As you can see I totally left Apple for MS phone.  It would have to be some incredible reason for me to go back again.  Having a phone be a PC (or PC having phone capability) wouldn't really make me convert back.  The reputation MS has built is their consistency in half supporting (IF that much) their devices & OS...Then leaving us in the dark.  Giving promises of what's coming soon.  Then abadoning us.  That's a reputation that's going to be increasingly difficult to break.  They're known for being very innovative right now & the Surface Pro was a market changer.  No matter what you may think, Apple has an excellent reputation with the iPhone & iPad.  They are making the iPad become an increasingly powerful Surface competitor.  They are doing it with new hardware, but they're also empowering older iPads (Non-Pro) have some hybrid features.  The future will be interesting...I'd like to see research/numbers of where the consumers & businesses are moving to or remaining with for mobile devices (Phones, Tablets, or Laptops, etc)
  • The blood donation center I visit is switching their entire computer system over at the end of next month. Moving from the old Windows XP terminals and CE handhelds to something new. I'm hedging on this question until I see what they roll out. Windows Phones exist primarily due to past MS dominance in the handheld device market, and if I see them roll out Android-based WFM tools, it would be pretty telling.
  • Ok. In all seriousness, this is the problem. It is hard to get someone to switch ecosystems and phones because they have already spent a ton on a device and everything that goes along with it. So many of us spent a ton of time and money on Windows Phones, music for it, videos for it, apps for it, accessories for it, etc over many many many years. Up shows this CEO that pulls everything out from under us and does everything to pretty much tell us to hit the bricks and go buy and Android or iPhone, and does this with a pretty much "to bad, don't care how much money you invested" manner behind it. Now trust me. I love Panos and everything he makes. But now that he has chased 90-some % of us die-hard Microsoft loyalist to other platforms, how the hell does it not seem like a hard sell for us to once again, dump more money in his crap, just after he chased us away? Top that with the pile of devices (phones, bands, etc) that I have sitting that he prematurally pulled support for. Now I/we are suppose to tempt fate and jump back in that same pool? This has nothing to do with me hate for the way this CEO has done things. It has to do with a fact that NO ONE in their right mind is going to trust Microsoft's intentions with the monile market with this guy running the show. The only way you are going to possibly even begin to try and convince your fans you won't do it again is if it is under a different leader. Sorry, but that is the stone called hard fact. No one trusts this company under this guy right now. Xx.
  • It isn't fans they need to convince. There are no where near enough to sustain a mobile device.
  • It starts with the fans. If you have no fan base, you market share will be zero. Good luck with that.
  • How has that worked out for them? Did WP7 just not have enough fans?
  • The problem was lack of apps. They should have focused on keeping their fans happy AND improving the available apps
  • No, Android also had an app gap when Windows Phone launched. Windows Phone arguably had better apps at that time. Even Netflix was on Windows Phone before Android! Apps wasn't the issue. It is just a convenient scapegoat so you don't have to come to terms with how crappy Windows Phone 7 was. Same with the marketing excuse. The bottom line is Windows Phone was just too lacking in too many areas to be competitive with Android. OEMs lacking customization options and hardware limitations were the biggest issues.
  • and MS screwed those WP7 fans isnt it?
  • I'd say most of the world already did not know about Windows Mobile. No more excuses. They just need to implement. Personally, I'm fine with my newly purchased Lumia 950 and am in no hurry for anything else. I'm also fine with only bug fixes. This bad boy does everything I want it to do!
  • I had so send my 950XL because it was freezing and draining battery I'm currently on my daughters 930 I dread to think what happens if its unrepairable....apple I guess because I hate android
  • buy used/refurbished?
  • FYI Microsoft Store sells a phone called Galaxy S8 and another called S8+.....if you needed an upgrade. The only caveat is they happen Not to run Windows as an OS
  • Most people who buy "phones" walk into Bestbuy, ATT, Verizon, Sprint or TMobile and I bet a large percentage of them buy what is recommended to them or what is being being offered heavily discounted.  If they don't do that, they are walking into Walmart and Target and buying a cheapo $100 android phone that serves its purpose, but is generally only a mediocre phone. The people that know every detail of their phone, including wether its LCD or OLED or what kind of memory management chip it has are the ones that come to these boards, but only represents less than 1% of the buying market.
  • At home there are 5 Nokia/windows devices, 1 IOS and one Android. 535, 630, 640xl, 930, 950xl run everything me and my family need. My stepdaughter was happy when iPad mini arrived, but uses only her 640xl, for now. Even with this amazing 950xl, I still glance my ex-930 with delightful impression about its beautiful screen, now it's my son's Minecraft station. And I miss the best Windows powered device I used, my broken 1520, the best smartphone I've ever had, among dozens of them I have had. I'm very angry about MS behavior, but I'd never say "from that water, I won't drink anymore!". My device with Windows mobile 10 still serves me with devotion and competence, no complains about it. The future belong to us.
  • You could just order the latest Galaxy, they sell it in their stores
  • Sorry. This app is wonky and repeated my post. My apologies.
  • I can't believe I read this article. I've said a dozen times why Microsoft is screwed. I'll re-iterate it in case anyone missed it: The way you grow an OS is to grow the platform in general. Look at how Apple did it. iPod > built music platform > iPhone > built an app platform > iPad. They were able to use that to build out Apple Watch (which is still largely profitable) and they're pressing the gas with ARKit right now. This will eventually become a product and it will sell millions and make a bunch of money too. Microsoft on the other hand looks like this: Releases Windows 7 > nothing happened here. Release Windows Phone 7 > dead end. Releases Windows 8 > tries to build an app ecosystem. Releases Windows Phone 8 > tries to build an app ecosystem. They went nowhere because it was too late. The market already shifted. When the iPhone was released, Windows 7 was a smash hit 2 years later. The best way I can describe that is The Writing is on the Wall figure of speech. While Microsoft was celebrating their success, Apple was going to overtake them swiftly and now Apple rules for all intents and purposes. Microsoft needed Windows 10 when Windows 7 launched. If that would have happened, Google would just be a search engine more or less and Microsoft would be a hugely profitable smartphone outfit. Instead, they had the wrong platforms with the wrong business model (charging a license fee?) at the wrong time. There are BILLIONS of devices out there. There is no coming back from this. It is game over. Put a fork in it. It's over. I love Microsoft and have stuck with them through thick and thin...I bought Xbox, Surface devices, I still have my gaming PC, but Windows is essentially a dead platform for consumers now. There is no coming back because the market moved too fast for Microsoft in an area that has become more essential. My desktop used to be my "command center" where everything happened. My communication, productivity, etc. That is not the case anymore, it is the phone. Folks in 3rd world countries are getting started on mobile phones...not computers. You can't sell a chunky ass beige box to anyone versus a smartphone. Just can't.
  • You pretty much said what I said above but in different wording. You can't keep asking your fans to spend money on you and keep pulling the rug out from under them because you didn't have a trillion dollars with of sales. It's not fair to them and they aren't coming back. There was no reason to kill what you had built. There was nothing wrong with it and was better than the competitors in many ways. The end all issue is you struggled to get Android and iOS people to try your device. They were loyal to what they had been using. That is where you energy should have been placed. Offer free Lumias with Xbox sales. Would you lose money? Yes, but the device would have been in their hands and they sure as hell would try a free phone. You had a similar loyal fan base, so be it much smaller. The difference is Microsoft kicked them around like a disposable asset. Good luck getting them back now.
  • I agree with your sentiment, and XBox users may have been the best consumers of all. Gamers spend power $. They're the ones spending $100+ on keyboards, $250+ on graphics cards, etc. Razer is trying for a $5 billion dollar IPO (granted they're going to be launching a smartphone to try and get to that valuation). The problem is they can't even do that now. Those users won't even use a Windows mobile platform based device of ANY sort. It's game over like I said. They cannot come back from this. Google has essentially blocked them out of the market. With that in mind, I feel like Google ruined the smartphone market too for everyone. You're either at the top and doing okay (Samsung) or you're on the bottom and killing/squeezing everyone in the middle. That model isn't sustainable.
  • People loved Windows 7, it certainly didn't go nowhere. It is the still the most used Windows platform! They needed to harness that instead of releasing a mobile product that was the exact opposite of Windows 7. If Windows Phone 7 was as clean, open and powerful as Windows 7 then they would have had a chance. If Windows Phone and Windows 8 sales are any indication, the metro interface isn't popular in the slightest.
  • If people loved Windows 7 and the computing experience they wouldn't be buying BILLIONS of smartphones. Windows 7 was a dud because it didn't segway into what Microsoft needed to do next to compete in the new version of the world. While they were celebrating record sales, little did they know the iPhone was going to become more profitable than Microsoft as an entire company. Let that sink in for a minute. They needed an app system that could be used amongst different form factors like they're trying to do today. If Windows 10 released in 2009, I'm 100% certain they would be good to go. Listen, this isn't 100% Microsoft's fault. Intel is largely to blame too. If laptops would have been getting 10-15 hours of battery life, devices like the iPad would have been DOA. Instead, you have a Windows 7 device getting 5-6 hours of battery life on the high end. They just had a product that wasn't desirable.
  • Again, Windows 7 is still the biggest Windows version. Of people didn't prefer it, they could easily be running Windows 10. Microsoft did anything they could to force the upgrade. The Windows Phone and Windows 8 failures weren't due to Windows 7. Not sure how you make sense of that argument. They were too radically different from Windows 7 and people just didn't like the interface. Live Tiles are too busy and overwhelming. Microsoft needs to move farther away from them.
  • Windows 7 was a dead end. Windows 7 did not give birth to anything afterwards. In my example, the iPod is essentially what changed everything for Apple, but they built platforms out of it. Windows 7 did not give birth to the Windows Store or Windows Mobile or UWP or anything. Windows 7 was a response to Vista complaints with absolutely no foresight into what was going to take place. That is why Windows 7 will be remembered as the last dominate OS Microsoft had. Period. During Windows 7, the market changed. If you look at Apple's model, everything they do gives birth to the next thing. That was the difference between the two, and it is too late for Microsoft to change course now.
  • People did love Windows 7, especially after Vista.  They still use Windows 7.  Not sure Windows 7 was a dud. Better battery life - interesting - you might be right, could have really slowed Ipads.
  • The world moved on while Windows 7 was in it's prime. There were no other computing platform options (Mac wasn't and still isn't really a legit option for most people). Once there was with the mobile platforms, consumers peaced out with the quickness! Computers are old, meanwhile people are still upgrading smartphones at a 20 month clip. Apple changed the game, Google went for the mass market immediately knowing this was their chance to do something. Google has iterated the hell out of Android and it is great, but Google can't even keep people on the 2nd to latest version of Android software. Chrome has been spinning it's wheels as a platform. Hardware is getting better, but the Chrome Store content is still mostly rubbish. There is no way around it.
  • Apple has failure to diversifty. They have 90 percent profit from iphone. Which is a time limited OS and ecosystem that will be superceeded by bigger screens and 3d. It's all well and good building an ecosystem, but as MSFT discovered, if that ecosystem is UI locked, and output locked, you are future proofed not at all. I can easily see a day where apple falls over as a company. They really seem to lack vision. At least google has alphabet, and even though google is 90 percent search (which could, likewise be killed by a well conceived autoML program), via alphabet the parent company they have a more diverse portfolio, and aren't as income stream locked, and future myopic as apple. Knock the iphone off its perch with a bigger screen UI model (AR, or folding devices or anything really) and apple is in deep self-examination trying to figure out where do go next. It might seem like a good strategy to be constantly focused on the immediate now, but its really not. if anything MSFTs track record in the changing favours of technology, and its need to massively pivot is a testament to how such thinking gets one in trouble. Similarly if apple were to use its various ML ownerships to build a superior search engine (it actually has access to EXACTLY the right technologies for this - a dark data indexing program that tags uncaterogized data, and IBM, a partners, watson - a program from matching data with queries).....well, if I were google, that might threaten me. The right match of ML applications would just _kill_ a pure algorythmn and ranking based approach in terms of search relevency - something that actually understands the content and the question, rather than using a points system based on social sharing and linking would be vastly superior. Either way, I don't think apples business model is entirely sound. I think the way they USED to operate is an excellend example of how to be - "look for future opportunites, observe trends, be visionary, leverage you existing strengths". Ala ipod > iphone. 
    I think pretty much since those days, they have resembled nothing like a future minded innovator, and MSFT fits that mold, even more than they did when they came out with the iphone. I mean, yeah, the ecosystem sort of played a role, the ipod was popular. But it's not like MSFT isn't TRYING to do the same thing, to leverage win32, converted to UWP, into a scalable platform that runs power software across devices. It's just a lot harder to get desktop software onto a phone, or AR, than it is to get itunes into an iphone. its more work, more visionary. 
  • Think about what you wrote for a minute. The ONLY way you can knock the iPhone off it's perch is to change the paradigm. You need a platform to change the paradigm with and nobody has one except Apple (Amazon and Facebook are trying however)! That is why Apple keeps winning and Google/Microsoft are consistently losing in the race for OS supremacy. Microsoft has had 5 years to get UWP off the ground. It is NEVER going to happen at this point. Developers aren't going to be like, "Yes, let's go all in on UWP." This means Microsoft Store adoption rates are still abysmal. Just pull up the Windows Store right now (I'm doing the same), it is loaded with trash. If you pull up the iOS App Store, there are multiple great options in every category. The company trying to change the paradigm is Amazon. There is a better chance Amazon builds the next successful platform than Microsoft imo. Keep working/iterating with Alexa and then one day, you have a product centered around that platform. It can handle complex problems, solve your shopping issues, keep you organized, read to you, etc. Bezos is no idiot and I'm confident he fully understands what I'm talking about. Finally, if Apple's model isn't sound...why is everyone still trying to copy it?
  • Surface phone will save Microsoft! Surface phone will revolutionize the modern smart phone and save windows mobile! Been hearing it for years as Microsoft continues to screw up, they can't even release an over priced Surface free of bugs anymore, and they are supposed to rewrite the mobile industry with a magical secret rumored device? The idea of a surface phone is as likely to happen as the iPhone 5 rumors claiming it would have a laser keyboard that projected onto a desk for easy typing.
  • The infrared keyboard has existed for year. It'd be very easy to put into a phone if it has a kickstand. A tablet projection using infrared touch would be better though, a nice ten inch screen on the go, that can double as a keyboard. 
  • Microsoft Loyalist here... I just want to know if Microsoft has learned any lessons from its mobile phone experience that they are prepared to implement in a new mobile device that will attract app developers to the platform to sustain viability.  I hated having to give up my Windows Phone.  I now use and enjoy my Android device, but candidly, I would return to a Windows Mobile device in a New York minute.
  • Good to hear that.
  • Good to hear that
  • Yes it's dead and has been for sometime. However if MS want a large user uptake of what ever comes next, then they better make sure it works out of the box. I spent my first three hours with my 950xl looking at a blue screen with a sad face. Little did I know that, that would be the look on my face for the next 19 months, more or less. Now I couldn't care less what MS plans are for Windows telephony and I'm counting down the days until January, when I can finally cancel my contract and go back to android.
  • So the question becomes; What do us Windows diehards do? As our 950s and x3s age, do we hold our nose and switch or wait indefinitely?
  • Problem is the Galaxy looks amazing, the note sounds like it will be the same plus some, and Apple promises something great is coming. With any of those devices you also get a commitment from two companies that have been pretty fair and worked hard for their fans. It's hard to tell someone who needs a new phone to pass those options up in the hope of something imaginery in ten months, with no promise Microsoft won't kick you in the teeth six months after you buy it because things aren't going the way they want. Nope.
  • At this time. I would like to direct your attention to the Xiaomi Mi Mix & Mi Mix 2. I've been living here in China for a few years now.   Apple is on the decline with China consumers. Xiaomi phones are amongts the most sort after in China gaining rapidly on iPhone.  Microsoft & Xiaomi are undertaking cooperation to build Windows phone Roms for Xiaomi phones. If I remember correctly which is being used by a test group on lower end Xiaomi phones. One has to ask. Why is one of the rapidly growing mobile makers in China  bothering to even dip into the waters of such a dead as a door nail OS? I actually am of the mind to believe that Microsoft is repositioning resources, partnerships and making moves that on their own don't make sense. But collectively seen in a frame work of a ultra mobile device with Windows on arm, makes sense. Certainly the so-called Surface phone is a rumour awaited for materilisation... yet when you look at all the moves microsoft has been making recently they actually make sense in the context of an ultra mobile device. But heres the thing. I don't think it's only in terms of device that it's going to redefine but in how we have our software delivered to the device. Microsoft shouting out to all its competitors about their AR technology. A predictable result followed.  Not to be beaten others threw their hats into the ring to get a jump on the market.  But android biased devices can not cross over to an Apple device, Apple baised devices can not cross over to Android... Oh hangon, Microsoft has already put in place tools that allow me tocross my Android data to my iPhone device and alows it to be usable. What did that no hope of a CEO say? Something about what they can uniquely bring to the table.. something like, I don't know... 'your data friendly' software?  I'm going to end this post with a quote from a famous trilogy of cinema... because it kinda sums up my point. "One ring to rule them all"
  • Xiaomi Phones are so underrated here in the west. Both yhe Mi6 & Mi Max 2 are fantastic phones with outstanding battery life. Mi6 blows the OnePlus 5 out of the water on price and battery life alone.
    I didn't know the MS and Xiaomi were working on a Windows phone. That's quite interesting.
  • One of AR's biggest powers, is to replace all your screens. Using AR, on a tiny screen, is in many ways, the opposite of what AR represents, bringing your digital world into your real world. People keep playing up apples little snapchat tricks. But unless they have a hybird OS, with an app platfrom that runs in AR (which would make zero sense through a phone camera anyway), and a HMD to run it on, they aren't even close to what AR will look like, and be used for. Same with googles AR tricks. It provides the development of a few useful AR apps like a ruler, and how to arrange your furniture, maybe a few games. It really futureproofs their AR plays in no real way at all. What real use is that on a true glasses like FF? You think people will want to run android or ios apps, designed for tiny smartphones on their wall sized screens?  Or use the tiny screen UI, in 3D? As bridges go, its pathetic.  
    What MSFT is doing with the hololens, fluent design, mixed reality and the windows 10 OS, from 0D to 4d, and even their quiet true glasses like form factor holographic display (thats early proto, but its in the works), is well well ahead of those curves.  Its a little like samsungs curved screens - its using something from the future, to push a few units primarily based on novelty, with almost none of its potential functionality. There's no big deal to be made of those, they are grounded in, and specialised for, a technology with a limited lifespan - the small screen that goes in your pocket. 
    AR is one of the things that will replace it. If anything its ironic. Its like a symbian OS phone trying to be like an iphone. 
  • Also way to expensive for what you get. Not buying on contract. When looking at phone sales 'the world' uses their common sense more and more. Also, over here, buying a smartphone (just a phone) over 250 euro's, gives you a debt registration. If it could be more than just a phone things would be different ;)
  • This is what Microsoft always seems to do and likely why they keep failing in the mobile market. I can remember back to the old iPaq days, back in the infancy of Microsoft mobile devices. I remember it being Windows CE, then we got Windows Mobile, we had the Windows 7 phones that were scrapped for the Windows 8 phones, which apparently are now being scrapped for the Windows Surface phones. Not to mention the Zune. I know one issue is that too many people have felt "burned" by Microsoft in the mobile arena. They've bought a device and liked it but, a year or two after buying it, Microsoft scraps the platform and they are left (or at least feel like they are) high and dry. They've lost a lot of goodwill from consumers who have tried them; not to mention you can't build up a dedicated user base when you keep cancelling the program the user base is devoted to. It also makes developers less interested in making apps for whatever new platform, knowing that it likely won't last more than a few years.
  • One might hope it is not Microsoft's intention to alienate its loyal fan base to launch another product. That would be marketing stupidity at its best
  • Exactly.
  • Exactly.
  • I'm fine with this concept, but what we really need is for Microsoft to come out and say this publicly. The problem is if they don't no matter what they bring to the table it will be DOA because people will not care any more. They need to build momentum, win back the people they lost and recruit new loyalists. It won't work unless they start the talk and demos well before hardware release. The problem with showing this stuff off the day it goes on sale is that in the time it would take to drum up interest, the devices are already past their prime. The work they did on Scorpio is a good example of how to build interest for a launch and the Mobile folks could learn a lesson or two from following that example.
  • I disagree. Other than pre-release distribution to enterprises and tech jouranlists under NDA, there is no upside for MS. Pre-rease information will be misunderstood, leading to the largely-non-technical tech journalists to write it off prior to realese, or hype it to the point that expectations can not be meet, resulting in bad reviews upon release. Observant  techies will want to evaluate it as soon as it is released. Marketing and word of mouth will then take place.  
  • They might want to prune the tree but the message is now so confusing and the lack of confidence that they can support a platform long enough for it too flourish means they have almost definitely stored a big fat failure in the pipe. They needed to keep supporting the platform once they released 10 until they had the new super phone which they could of differentiated with new features and calling something else but tbh even then it was doomed to fail. Sorry to say but this has been a bit of a balls up for some time. Just because the OS is actually not bad and they have actually introduced a number of key features that the other phone OS now includes it doesnt matter nobody cares. I am fortunate in so much as I only really use the Microsoft core apps and features of the phone and generally do not use apps very often. However even this is under threat when Microsoft remove its own core apps from the OS or choose not to have feature parity. So yeah they are strangling the phone with the Jam tomorrow mentality unfortunately like many I am not convinced of the Jam because I have been round long enough and have seen enough balls ups that my confidence they can pull it off is next to zero. The best chance they had was windows 8 and 10 but they squandered it.
  • whatever bottom line i dont trust MS whether be it on windows on mobile or windows mobile. i'm sick of them abonding attitude. pulling plug, shouting there is new iteration going to come which going to change everything. i'm a consumer i bought L950XL with display dock which didnt got any new features from past many yrs apart from bug fixes. I'm never going to buy windows on mobile again. L1020 lieing there with no much use even i cant you skyoe on it, l730 lieing with out any more updates, L950xl is on feature 2 going to die after it support period. apple cares a lot about their consumers, they even update iphone 5 to ios 10..anyways if they ever release cshell to lumia 950xl i might think to consider MS on windows mobile or else i will shift to iphone or samsung next year.
  • I am absolutely convinced there will be no phone-like device with Windows 10 on it.  There just won't.  We'll see leaked images or renders of some ugly, twisted device, but nothing will come of it.
  • I am not gonna argue anything going on about Windows phone. It is dead for me. Only way to bring me back to the platform is Microsoft to promise (like really, either company dies with this or succeed with it kinda) I know it is a big thing to say, but at this point, I don't want to see another attempt. I wanna see a proper long term plan. Not "let's see what will happen" and then "meeh never mind".
  • Windows 10 phone's now eat dust , it's finished gone in donkeys As.s ,ha ha ha ha
  • Now dona will be happy and enjoying with her iPhone and liking dic.k of Satya Nadella that's why her lips are always red
  • Sold all phones 950 XL is left , HP AND ALCATEL SUCK,S third class phones even my Lumia ,950 XL , ha ha ha ha
  • I think Microsoft's plan is to bring to market a mini Surface Pro in tablet only mode, add in mobile antennas and call it a day. It will use the same app store as on pc, the apps will scale accordingly. This makes the most sense imo. The only thing a Surface Pro cant do now is make calls and text message. How they plan to miniaturize a Surface Pro will probably be accomplished by using ARM. We are at the point now where smartphones are more like computers anyway, Microsoft can capitalize on this by making a computer that is more like a smartphone. They will attack it from the opposite direction.
  • I thought about making a drinking game for everytime I read "ultimate mobile device", but didn't feel like getting alcohol poisoning so I changed my mind.
  • If MS would partner with mobile carriers to marry cellular service with Skype, merging the platforms so that your number goes with you on every device (cell, tablet, laptop, etc...) they'd have both Apple and Google beat. if you can have the benifits of a cell on a PC and a PC on a cell then youre golden.
  • Google already does that and I think Apple does too (if you have all Apple devices!).
  • They don't.
  • Google Voice. I use it everyday. Apple calls their version Continuity.
  • I too thought Skype should be used in this way of mobile telephony.  But it's a hard buy in as Microsoft gains more than networks.
  • Microsoft doesn't care of us than why we care 😂😂😂😂
  • Glance screen doesn't work when battery saver is active even hey Cortana
  • It's quite simple; Nadella does NOT want to be saddled with the manufacturing facilities and massive overhead associated with being a major manufacturer of Global CONSUMER hardware products.
    Keyboards, mice, and peripherals, sure, they support themselves and can be contacted out to just about anybody based on price. XBOX is unique as it ALREADY is inextricably tied into Cloud Services via XBOX LIVE and has a healthy profit margin built in with a captive audience of supporters. Nadella wants to make money off of CLOUD SERVICES as much as possible, which is fairly immune to the "consumer fickleness" of something like a phone product. It also doesn't help that Microsoft does not want to be an also-ran and in Phones they definitely saw nowhere to go but down from a tiny percentage of market share. They will start over with a Business-Oriented "Cellular PC" device that just happens to also act as a Phone with built in LTE capabilities based on "C-Shell" and "Windows on ARM". They will leave the "Consumer Product Versions" to their OEMs to design and build and succeed or fail as they will (Why take on any big costs when you don't have to?)
    They will also tie this "Cellular PC" directly to their Cloud Services for it's operation, more like a "ChromeBook" is, with the apps just being local cached versions that are purchased and run from the Microsoft Cloud (where MS is guaranteed a cut of every sale.) Personally, I think this approach will succeed.as top-end Smartphones are now in the same cost-space as your average business-laptop PC, $700-$1200 (just wait until you see what Apple is going to charge for the iPhone 8.)
    Convergence is coming for the Smartphone, just like it did for the PDA and the MP3 player.
  • I think made the point I was trying to make much more clearly.  It's not just about devices for microsoft.  It's about not battling and taking these smart phone giants head on in a race that they're very out classed in.  It's about positioning to take advantage of iPhones & Androids biased software environments disallowing the freedom of usable data. 
  • Who is going to bet again on Microsoft in mobile category? After so many disappointments? I can observe that many loyal Windows fans became angry on Microsoft for lack of commitment to own products and own community. Windows RT, Windows Phone 7, Windows Phone 8.1, Windows Mobile.... the path of failures and disappointments. Disappointments not referred to product's but to treating own most loyal customers as testing field.   People naturally want to join the winning team, team proud and commited to what they create. Those people are giving hard earned money to Microsoft and in return are treated as unwanted children. Rival platform users are clearly prefered by Microsoft.  How Microsoft can expect people will trust them again? I don't, not in mobile category. 
  • Has Microsoft failed though? Continuum a failed idea? But a competitor in the mobile industry they could not hope to compete against picked up the concept. I could remembering incorrectly, but didn't microsoft actually help them develop it to some extent to bring to market? It seems like the dumbest idea.  But wait, Microsoft does something that Samsung don't. They develop software and I heard (just a rumour but) That microsoft are making something that would allow me to use my Windows data on an Android device.  Samsung better watch themselves or Microsoft will take over their mobile market share!  I have an idea... What software does one of the largest sellers of Mobile producers make again?   I propose we make a way that PC users, Apple or PC users can use their OS centric created data can be used on a Samsung android device. But lets help Samsung show them we're not after their mobile device market share. But looking to convince Windows users, Apple users & PC's can feel confortable about buying a Samsung device cause theycan  use that Apple or PC data on their android with PC mimicry quite comfortably... Samsung is happy, Microsoft is happy in their respective play pens. Apple not so happy but might have to play a little more friendly to some extent... all speculative. But hey if I thought of it in very lose terms. I'm sure there are smarter people elsewhere that have in more detail than myself  
  • Windows Mobile is dying in an agonizing death. And Windows on mobile, except for laptops, may never happen. Or it will happen as an n-th Windows on mobile restart, live in agony for five years and then Nutella will say that Microsoft needs to retrench for an n-th+1 restart. In the meantime, there will be nothing but complete silence. I'm not a *********, sorry guys!
  • Sorry again, guys, but how is maso# chist a banned word?
  • maso# chist is banned becuase it is a sexual orientation and you used it in another context which could be considered maso# chistphobic
  • Thanks for the explanation.
    I wonder where this false correctness might end up. Disgusted...
  • Jason, please can you add up the total positive and negative comments because I think it will be very revealing. 
  • Surface Phone seems like a hollow phone with hollow w10m OS.
    When MS release their phone, at that time w10m users maybe increase to 25% just for reviewing/comparing it with their competitors. And that stage would be a lucky guess for MS otherwise w10m users will decrease to 15% . Pity less,strangling w10m.
  • The next Microsoft mobile device for consumers will likely run Android. Once the EU lawsuit investigation into Google's bundling of the OS causes Google to have to permit sales of devices with different email, search engine etc.
  • They aren't prevented from doing that today. Google just requires certain Google apps on the home screen.
  • the most recent update really seems to have smoothed out Windows 10 mobile. It seems to run faster and is probably what it should have been all along. I only mention this because the update was called, '2017-07 Update for Windows 10 17030 for arm based Phone Devices.' It was interesting as it made me wonder if this would be directly included in the future OSs.
  • Doesn't do a bit of good if you're on Verizon
  • Yeah well if it doesn't run Pokémon GO and all the other popular apps, then its dead on arrival already.
  • LOL! Poor Windows Phone fans.
  • If that is what they are doing, they need to say as much themselves.
  • Yes. PCs act as great phones. Skype, ooma, voip.  Smartphones are horrible PCs. Smartphones cant run all x86 apps, can't host web sites and database servers, cant run x86 nor osx virtual machines. Turn PCs into phones. 0% to 25-50% marketshare overnight.
  • We all knew last year that they would be dropping the Nokia Lumia line and that they working on the next relase of the OS and were hoping for that to be ready in 2018 but, they didn't set a date.   All this doom and gloom talk is simply folks trolling.  
  • Pretty sure this is highly unlikely, but if Microsoft made a Galaxy S8 variant that runs Windows 10, especially if it could dual boot to Android and Windows, I would totally give it a shot, as I'm sure would many other people.
  • No.
  • Just give me cshell for my X3,so that I can get full use of continuum. Then I will use it until some good phone is released, guess it will sometime in the next couple of years.
  • Until now at least I have not found any other OS on phones that works better for my needs.
  • " I believe the company is planning a Continuum-enabled Windows on ARM ultramobile PC with the context-conforming CShell and telephony. " Huh, this is kinda rubbing off on me. We can call it a "CeWAU-PC w/ CCCT"
  • I get this but "pruning" the bad image windows phones have on people who don't like them means also killing them for those of us who still like them. Plenty people like them, in fact I'm going to buy a couple 640s in the coming months. I think it's a bit harsh on those who DO support their products for trying to win over of those who don't
  • I like them too. I even wrote an article last year that MS should market Windows Mobile to remain visible in the market even if only showing Windows phones within the context of Surface or Window 10 commercials. I wrote a whole series asserting that it was a mistake to shelter Windows Mobile in the enterprise. But the company went from retrenchment where it was supposed to offer consumer and enterprise focused and low end devices to a full retreat and no phones at all. Things are in really bad shape now.
  • Microsoft 2 Years Now is absent from the Phone Market. So someone who doesnt bring not even 1 model for sale he gets 0% of the Market. Even Apple with iPhones that Doesnt Produce lot of Models but only 2-3 Models Every Year gets Almost the 50% of the World Market. So they should do at least the same. They should Build 1 Microsoft Lumia 1060 or 1070. and 1 Model Microsoft Surface 2016 or 2017. The 1st one should be at 500€ for Power Users and the 2nd one at 1.000€ as a High End Model. They Could Build and a 3rd one at 200€ as an Entry Level Phone without using the Words Lumia or Surface only number like 560 or 570.  
  • Apple gets like 13%, no where near 50%.
  • Thats True. Now i see that is less than 20% of World Sales on SmartPhones. https://www.statista.com/statistics/271496/global-market-share-held-by-s...
  • MS's issue was producing too many models and as the OS improved they encountered too many issues when all these models couldn't handle the OS improvements due to simple lack of proper hardware. That in itself stunted the growth of the OS to where it is now and consumers got fed up and left.
  • As long as I have something I can use, it's fine with me... I'm used to going the hard road, since before Windows I only had basic shell phones. My 950 is all i got and i just got it exchanged to make it last another year while they do what they gotta do. That does me just fine, i love and enjoy it! It sucks for my friend on Verizon but that mobile carrier is a disease. 😑 idk, maybe some magic will happen or the world will end 😅
  • As long as I have something I can use, it's fine with me... I'm used to going the hard road, since before Windows I only had basic shell phones. My 950 is all i got and i just got it exchanged to make it last another year while they do what they gotta do. That does me just fine, i love and enjoy it! It sucks for my friend on Verizon but that mobile carrier is a disease. 😑 idk, maybe some magic will happen or the world will end
  • 😅
  • As long as I have something I can use, it's fine with me... I'm used to going the hard road, since before Windows I only had basic shell phones. My 950 is all i got and i just got it exchanged to make it last another year while they do what they gotta do. That does me just fine, i love and enjoy it! It sucks for my friend on Verizon but that mobile carrier is a disease. 😑 idk, maybe some magic will happen or the world will end
  • As long as I have something I can use, it's fine with me... I'm used to going the hard road, since before Windows I only had basic shell phones. My 950 is all i got and i just got it exchanged to make it last another year while they do what they gotta do. That does me just fine, i love and enjoy it! It sucks for my friend on Verizon but that mobile carrier is a disease. 😑 idk, maybe some magic will happen or the world will end
  • As long as I have something I can use, it's fine with me... I'm used to going the hard road, since before Windows I only had basic shell phones. My 950 is all i got and i just got it exchanged to make it last another year while they do what they gotta do. That does me just fine, i love and enjoy it! It sucks for my friend on Verizon but that mobile carrier is a disease. 😑 idk, maybe some magic will happen or the world will end
  • As a statement i made in Zac's column regarding not buying the alcatel,  I will leave this version here....   Capitan Oblivious to the rescue.   No...there will be no magical saviour "phone" from MS.
  • I use my 950 because I like the way it works. It's a really good phone even after 2 years. I will keep using it until my services no longer work or I break it and can't get it replaced. We here in Texas have a historic flag with a cannon logo that says "Come And Take It". I'm going to make one that has my phone on it!
  • I'd be down for one of those
  • The only way for people to "forget" Windows 10 Mobile is for Microsoft to somehow develop and use the "neuralizer" from the Men in Black movies on everyone, first. If that is their strategy then I pity them. Samsung made grave (and potentially brand-destroying/fatal) errors with the quality of the hardware of the Note 7, but they've publicly apologized, shown great remorse, and proved how they're preventing that from ever happening again, and then they went on to release a category-leading (though imperfect) new device that side-by-side makes the iPhone 7 look quaint, and has won the hearts of the adoring public and media (and lots of positive reviews). They've dusted off the criticism of the past mistake. Microsoft, on the other hand, fails to communicate where they're going, continue with their political double-speak (saying one thing and doing another), and expect developers and fans to stick with them on blind faith (which they've shown with previous abandoned-ware is at your own peril, o loyal fan), and mere words of a *possible* future product. In another vein, Red, a non-smartphone-maker, has concept designs to titillate their prospective buyers to a proposed smartphone running Android at http://www.red.com/hydrogen. This concept is said to redefine AR/MR/VR, 2D/3D and has patents bringing it in line with their (Red's) existing product line (mostly cameras) but it is a nice product as best, that makes Android (a non-niche OS) a camera OS of sorts here. Jason, we are *not" holding back Microsoft from moving forward with their "platform dreams" by continuing to advocate for and use what is available (even at the risk of losing all support very soon, again). For some of us, as soon as we Dare make the switch to another platform and get comfortable, that same commitment and loyalty we had/have to Windows on Mobile switches with us, maybe permanently. Microsoft created a platform and won people to it, who have stayed committed because that's what you do when you resonate with a product, but they are chickening out and expecting to be forgiven (and trusted again) in the long run This may just be one time too many for a lot of people. Let's wait and see.
  • Honestly, if this is what they have to do then so be it. That being said if they are going to introduce a Surface pocket they'd better commit to it.
  • Honestly, if this is what they have to do then so be it. That being said if they are going to introduce a Surface pocket they'd better commit to it.
  • MS has interesting ideas and concepts, unfortunately they take too long to bring them to market, are incapable of marketing and selling them and abandon them as they have no idea how to turn it into a successful product. Fortunately Apple and Google do, and that's why we will all be using apple or android pc's / phones in the future. I'm pretty sure Apple and Google will release this mythical surface phone before MS will.
  • I understand your point, Jason, and totally agree with it. Though I believe people are infuriated not because the next iteration of the Windows-on-mobile might not see the light of day, but the actual number of times Microsoft has had to recreate itself on this front. Take someone who's been around since WP 7.0, for instance: Why would someone like this, who's been faithfully loyal up this point in mid-2017, place they're faith (once more!) on a seemingly mobile effort that people may not even differentiate it from a regular smartphone? What is the guarantee that this next Windows-on-mobile iteration will not fail and leave everyone hanging again? This predicament is the same of a failing marriage: Once the trust has been broken multiple times, who is to tell it's not gonna happen again?
  • who really talks on the phone much anyway?  Just let it have voice capability via cell service and text and email and apps
  • Business people I suppose. I rarely see Gen "x"'ers and Millennials actually use their cell phones to talk.
  • This makes no sense at all. Windows mobile has plenty of apps has plenty of functionality has everything that a phone needs to have to be successful except for marketing. When Android first came out. They didn't have any apps at all but they marketed. The heck out of it got people on it, and then the apps came. I hope there is a surface phone, but I see no point in waiting for it as the Lumia 950 was a great phone as R others.
  • I can't believe that WC is still giving space to such long winded and pale techie-Nostradamus wanna-be. He sprouts baseless assertions like throwing cards on a casino. Don't you think, people, that any average-minded tech writer will notice that MS would get back in the mobile game if they ever release a device with phone capabilities? MS does not even know where Win on ARM will take it. At least Ward could have waited until Win on ARM is on the market. Ward! Give me back my five minutes!
  • Well I got over two years out of WP7, three out of WP8/8.1, and now on the second with W10M. I've never felt "cheated" as each iteration has been more of a leap and innovation over my wife's iPhone 2 year cycle. I'll keep running my 950 till MS finalizes the next iteration, but in no way are they hanging me out to dry, the phone gets tweaks to its OS, I have a healthy stable of UWP I use professionally (still getting updated) and Continuum works well for light work (plus is awesome for casting a presentation in class while still running other apps on the phone). The only thing i would bemoan are the few legacy Silverlight apps that will die, but frankly they never performed great anyway.
  • I honestly think they are actively trying to get the last remaining diehards to quit so they can begin rebranding.
  • Put my HP elite X3 away this week. Bought LG g6 to give it a go. hated it at first, as my mind had to retrain itself (I have had a windows phone since Windows mobile 7) before that i was on PALM OS. Understanding how to use Android was very frustrating the first few days. When I say I had to retrain my brain, that is an understatement. I now have my LG configured the way I like, and have my Microsoft Apps installed. I do have to say, I don't think I'll ever go back unless MS truly realizes full Windows on ARM support. I do miss being able to have a clean operating system and being able to participate in beta software (Pixel 2 is not out yet), but am looking forward to buying the Essential phone if it ever comes out. Sigh............. It's been a good run. RIP.
  • Well, I said so on Twitter over a year ago, so I guess I obviously agree. :)
  • Another sad reminder. https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/14/15970082/google-killed-windows-phone-...
  • Not normally a reader of The Verge, but that was a great article. Thank you for the link.
  • Nadella destroyed the consumer trust by lying in many occasions. He needs to earn that first again, then we talk. But again, he's not doing that. He's just becoming the modern Pinocchio with his chin growing longer and longer evertime he speaks.
  • Very good article
  • Very good article
  • As was said in the article, developers have no interest in development on Windows mobile. I appreciate what Microsoft is doing to make a device that suits the context of use and is very flexible. I don't see a space for anything new or revolutionary that is going to reverse Microsoft fortunes. They are already reversed. We might see such a device but it will not set the world or fire or likely fire up developers. Microsoft will be a nice in this realm competing with established players.
  • If Microsoft can make a foldable phone, Samsung and Apple can too. So even if Microsoft is first, by the time they capture any momentum one of these other companies, or both, will simply copy and keep their user base. They need to do more. They need to add some kind of app or service that changes how we communicate. Or something else that makes everyone forget about the app gap.
    The right question is not what comes after mobile phones, but what comes after apps...
  • No, Microsoft did not kill M10M.  They just ignored it as much as they possibly could, sneezing at it.    In order to make a comeback Microsoft would have to be better than any other competitor beyond scale. Microsoft has written off W10M,
    the market has written off Microsoft in mobile.  Despite burning 10 billion USD they have made themselves the laughing stock of the industry.
    That is almost a form of art.  As Microsoft does not command any volume in the mobile market:  
    There is no chance for a comeback. They simply cannot afford it.  Microsoft's only option left is to cater Google, Apple and Amazon. 
    They screwed it. Big time. Biggest management blunder of all time in IT. Microsoft destroyed their own options the way no enemy could.   .  
  • "developers never supported Windows phone in any meaningful way" Define meaningful.  As a former Windows Phone developer evangelist (employed by Nokia at the time), I encountered very meaningful passion and commitment in the WP developer community.  True, the raw numbers couldn't compare to the iPhone or Android camps, but these folks rocked.  If there was no official support from a platform, like Tinder, WP develoeprs could be counted on to fill the gaps. Microsoft utterly failed to sufficiently market and support the product line, and placed too many hurdles in front of developers.  But no one can truthfully say the developers "never supported Windows phone in any meaningful way".
  • Maybe I should be more clear about what I mean by by meaningful. I was talking about the passion or sincerity of those who have and DO support the platform. I simply mean that the collective efforts never culminated in a relevant developer support system and that the developer support was for Windows phone was never "meaningful" in that it was always insufficient to produce a strong ecosystem.
  • Phone manufactures have ever opportunity to make Windows Phones. But nobody's making them. Instead they stick to android. So we have little choices. Just port over some android phones and put Windows 10 on them.
  • Phone manufactures have ever opportunity to make Windows Phones. But nobody's making them. Instead they stick to android. So we have little choices. Just port over some android phones and put Windows 10 on them.
  • They tried that. No one bought them. Remember the HTC M8 and Samsung Ativ?
  • I do believe that Microsoft has something up they're sleeves when it comes to mobile, but if they don't act quick and let their remaining devs know if what's to come they'll regret it. Hopefully team surface can come to the rescue. They would also try to get their PC OEMs on board
  • Maybe if they didn't always start over than most individuals including developers, fans, users, companies, etc wouldn't doubt Microsoft end goal in mobile
  • Microsoft must make know to us all that the next mobile on PC will be taking over all previous smartphone and it better offer a great great camera and stereo sound in the ultra mobile it will be offering and tell us the planned launch date
  • As Daniel Rubino said, Microsoft will show that next step when it is ready, and it will be ready when it will be ready.
  • If Microsoft is waiting for the consumer space to forget about Windows Phone, we will have to take a seat and wait, cause in order to present something rather new hardware it would have to pass much more than just a couple of years, otherwise people would feel is just a rebranded Lumia with again a "new Windows Phone" OS.
  • Buying surface phone day one, case closed
  • Great work putting the thought together, but I strongly disagree with much of it. Microsoft is wrong pursuing this path. The concept of a phone is not going to change regardless of how many dollars they waste in an attempt to convince people that they don't want a phone. Yeah, I want a cool phone that will do many tasks, but still, I want a phone that is comfortable to talk on. Perhaps they lost the first round of the battle over smartphone dominance.But that doesn't mean you give up and try to talk your way out of it by calling the conflict something that it wasn't. They lost, but a great product will always have a home in the marketplace. A casual observer who has never even owned a Windows Phone can look  at a web listing of all of the great (and cheap) phones that Microsoft has brought forth and say WOW, why didn't I purchase one of those phones instead of this droid or iOS. They should have kept  producing phones. Windows 10 Mobile, Windows 10 CShell....Why can't Microsoft have two rivers heading the same direction?  The goodwill that they have lost will be hard to replace. Those of us who want a Microsoft branded Windows OS Phone have been thrown out with the trash. I wonder how many of the posts here are actually MS folks still trying to tell the world that Windows Phone was a bad OS. This article and MS have convinced me of one thing though. It really is time to move on. What a disgrace to forsake those who really love a product. Wouldn't a small percent of the market have been better than none and wouldn't building goodwill and a loyal fan base have won out on the long road.   
  • yesss... the correct thing!! thanks jason for the article
  • Thanks, imsai0!
  • exactly!! thanks for composing the article!!
  • Windows 8.1 smart phones are considered dead because Microsoft no longer supports the 8.1 OS but Microsoft it appears has not killed the  Windows 10 Mobiles OS because they are still making Windows 10 mobile insider builds. When that stops then you know Windows smart phones are dead. it appears to me that microsoft may go back to the days of Windows 7 when they made no physical Windows phone 7 smart phones themselves but let their OEM partners do that. Mirosoft CEO Nadella did say if no one makes Windows smart phones they would make them themselves so they have to Windows 10 mobile OS alive in case Microsoft's OEM Partners stops making them they can. My OWN personal thoughts are that Microsoft will make a dual screen mini tablet smart phone hybrid device. the latest patents show that a duel screen handheld Tablet device is being worked on in Microsoft labs. No one can say they will make it tio the market place. I would buy one !
  • The never ending story!
  • Gonna keep my 950XL till 2018, will see what happens then! Even if I happen to switch, it will be to a place holder till something windows or anyone else with more compelling OS/Hardware comes around.
  • When will MicroSikurujule going to give me the software to install Linux based OSes?
  • Here is what Microsoft is doing (or better do!) Microsoft, as well as you all should know by now, knows chipsets are coming to an equilibrium that is smaller and more powerful in comparison to their current full-fledged counterparts. The next OS will be based on hardware that can be accommodated by hardware that can be run on devices smaller than cell phones as we know them now. That next Windows will be just that. A Windows that can run anywhere on anything. There will not be "mobile." It will just be (in italics) Windows.
  • Trump should ban Microsoft and make the wall around them, and Microsoft should pay for it.
  • I've got high hopes for the "ultimate mobile device". Microsoft could address a lot of problems consumers and professionals currently have with the available products.
    Just to give one example: When I switched from printed magazines and books to eBooks, there was always one annoying detail missing when reading them on a mobile device, for example a telephone like my Microsoft 950XL:
    You can't write a quick note or an annotation, like for example when using Amazon's Kindle app (which is - as any Windows Mobile user knows - a very lackluster piece of software in itself).
    How great would it be furthermore, if you could read an eBook or magazine for example on you Surface Pro device, while simultaneously writing notes about it on your Microsoft mobile device with a pen? It would be an outstanding feature if Microsoft implemented this on their coming devices. So, in short I'd like to hope that Microsoft will add pen support for their coming mobile devices and makes sure that they add all the necessary features to enrich people's experiences with their OS and hardware, that they offer really useful features which simply work and are hassle-free. Because this is what Apple makes so successful: When they added pen support with the introduction of their iPad Pro line, you could easily annotate documents, books, etc. and didn't have to worry about third party apps. It simply worked. Sure, you can enhance this experience with third party applications, but the basic functionality is there and it works as soon as you power on their devices.
  • Thats the thing with MS, they are so ignorant of consumers and so deep in the biz world they dont realise that consumers is what drives these things. They make brilliant stuff, and then just waits...and waits....and waits. Hololens is the perfect example. Soon they will be bypassed by those two...things. Cortana and Bing. They should have been made available for the rest of the world immediately! Windows Phone? They should have pushed that like crazy. It really doesnt matter how good the Surface Phone is if it isnt available and reasonably priced worldwide immedately. And it better be amazing. We nerds may get one,but the big consumer marked? Not so much.
    A new phone NEED a wow factor to make it. If not, its pointless.
  • B
  • MS has let another consumer down.................Me!!! Bought my 950XL with the expectation of RS1-3 finally giving me a device to be proud to use vs the IPhones and the Androids of this world and all MS has really done is chase their loyal customers to their competitors. ? what will MS do if Google or Apple came up with a PC OS that truly rivaled Windows? Sorry to say but when reading some of the other posts from fellow windows mobile users it's high time to say it's time to FO with MS's windows smartphone devices. My biggest ? is how diff will this new device be to what I'm currently running on my 950XL? Landscape mode -----asked for that many many times on feedback, better Continuum ------- asked for that many many times on feedback, better live tile functionality and look ------- who hasn't asked for that on feedback, 64bit OS ------- hmmmm, fluent design -------- really!!!! Are any of this anything that when/if implemented would make MY current 950xl running the latest FR version any diff? It would only improve what I have now. The cshell YT vid did not show me anything new to the OS other than a larger live tile option, landscape mode and better continuum functionality. So really MS what exactly are you REBOOTING???????
  • Microsoft has no choice but to introduce a new category of Windows 10 on mobile device that is not a phone.  The reason is simple. No matter how good a Windows 10 mobile phone is, reviewers and Android/Apple users will always list "Lack of Apps" as a con, thus driving away potential buyers.  If on the other hand, Microsoft introduces a full Windows 10 computing device like a small ARM mobile Surface mini, then the comparison with phones will be gone and so will the "Lack of Apps" label.  To further move away from the phone comparison, the first small mobile device will probably lack telephony ability at launch but will be sporting top specs otherwise.  Once everyone accepts that Windows 10 on mobile is not a phone and agrees that "Lack of Apps" is no more a concern, a software upgrade or a new device will probably happen enabling telephony capabilities.  This telephony capabilities may even extend to non traditional Windows 10 devices with LTE module.  This is why Microsoft continues to develop CShell, pushes out updates for their mobile apps like Word, Groove, Xbox, etc but refrain from adding features to Windows 10 mobile. On a related area, Windows 10S in my view is not a suitable permanent competition to Chrome OS because it is too good in comparison.  Windows 10S is likely a temporary solution until the new Windows 10 on ARM with CShell becomes available.  This is also why Windows 10S is upgradable to Windows 10 Pro.  Windows 10S is just an excuse to offer a cheaper Windows 10 to OEMs temporarily while waiting for Windows 10 on ARM to be ready.  
  • Semantics won't fix the app gap. No matter what you call it, people will expect modern software to be available.
  • @Pynchmail; I don't know how Windows 10S fit in your description since Mirosoft target it at schools seems as if your broadening the definition in a way Microsoft didn't.  However, I fully agree with your assessment of the apps and think it's spot on...
  • MS all I want you to do is drop the 64bit CShell on my 950XL bad boy with all the fluent designs, let the phone finally flex IT'S 64BIT 2yr old never fully utilized chipset and then let's go from there.
  • I would love to come to a Windows based mobile, but I don't trust Microsoft. They don't have the chops to pull it off, they don't have the chops to market it well.
  • Windows 10S on a pocketable arm machine with a LTE modem is going to happen within a year. Thanks to c-shell the interface will adapt to the small screen.
    Will it be any good? Will it be a success? Who knows, but what else can MS do? They can't give up on mobile even if they give up on phones.
  • I don't think so. I think it is an evolution and the trend has been clear in the last 10 years.
    I worried about microsoft's support cycle culture though. I don't see how the "surface phone" and "new" windows 10 platform is going to be different. I'm skeptical how effective the retrenchment program will be. If microsoft would show dedication to showing support for cshell and continued uwp developer incentives to current capable windows mobile devices, it would change my short and longterm experiences and views on this matter. With retrenchment I'm otherwise seeing microsoft still do more of the same.
    I think windows hardware and software are developing nicely. But the discrepancy of hardware and software roadmap development, and subsequently its seemingly skewed development cycle is frustrating and costly. I think the new mobile paradigm ("surface phone") roadmap and experience will be no different.
  • hey Jason thanks for the video on win mobile with Cshell , very impressive. But the smartphone market is quite saturated , so question is : Will people abandon their $200-300 android device with tons of apps for a $500-600 device with no doubt a superior OS but far lesser apps ? I am afraid not . Unless Microsoft doesn't target the consumer market and prefer to concentrate on business users and professionals , then fine
  • Hi flybywire54 you're quite welcome and thanks goes to Zac for making the video. Now rather than going into how this device can be successfully marketed which I WILL say is a long play and also as I consistently reiterate is not a phone competing directly against smartphones is supply you with this link will I thouroghly address that question in a piece titled " How Microsoft can ensure Surface phone success: https://m.windowscentral.com/what-your-surface-phone-aka-microsoft-ultimate-mobile-device-vision Thanks for the question! And please check out the link!😎
  • Thanks Jason . Yes i will check the link .
  • I saw the article. It will be an hybrid phone/pc . Sold at premium price , which given the shortage of apps may limit its appeal . Worth the try though , but not sure it will ever be produced. Meanwhile there are tens of millions of Lumia in circulation , people still buying lumias so Microsoft better don't kill Windows 10 mobile if it doesn't have a replacement working on latest lumias Remember Elop burning platform, it was a stupid mistake
  • It is interesting to see the disappointment in fans over all of this. I feel it too. Microsoft have really been as cold as a cadaver over their treatment of their fans. It seems to me that way. The fan base has been let down numerous times over Windows Phones and yet keep coming back like Donald Trump supporters for more of the same each time. Amazing. They have certainly failed in telephony, totally. If anyone thinks somehow they will wangle a foot hold another way, well they may be right. A phone that runs a full version of windows and can plug in anywhere would be nice but it is still a niche device. How much nicer to have one device optimally designed for a phone size screen and small enough to hold to your ear that can do so much work for you. A laptop then with a nice big keyboard and a huge battery so you can sit down anywhere and hammer away on your keyboard producing useful work. We wait as though for the second coming of JC, but the current generation of fans must be about to pass surely, and the baton going to the next generation of fans still waiting like obedient Labradors for the second coming.
  • is this from Stephen Elop or Satia Nadella ? There is a pertinent story about a man who was working on an oil platform in the North Sea. He woke up one night from a loud explosion, which suddenly set his entire oil platform on fire. In mere moments, he was surrounded by flames. Through the smoke and heat, he barely made his way out of the chaos to the platform’s edge. When he looked down over the edge, all he could see were the dark, cold, foreboding Atlantic waters.
    As the fire approached him, the man had mere seconds to react. He could stand on the platform, and inevitably be consumed by the burning flames. Or, he could plunge 30 meters in to the freezing waters. The man was standing upon a “burning platform,” and he needed to make a choice.......  you know the rest...
  • Sorry, I disagree, even media will remember all the failures and mention them once a new phone or however you wanna call it is out. And yes, I will remember, too. I switched to BB OS 10 first, now to Android, which is the worst os experience I ever experienced and do experience. I am not sure if I understand CShell and all of it, but at this point, a full featured Windows would make no sense in a phone like device. You need software that is designed for the form factor, which I don't see. And honestly, yes Windows ink is nice but do you really think the masses give a sh*** about it when they have to adapt how they are using Facebook and Twitter and so on. Because apps won't be there... Maybe I don't see the big picture. But what I see through all major MS fails in the mobile world, it always goes wrong when they start listening to the haters. Windows 8 was a really good os. Then they listened to all the Android users, who would never buy a WP, and added an action center. The beginning of the end! Cheers
    mH
  • Hi what a lot of folks seem to be missing is this is not simply semantics'. This device will not be a phone no more than Surface Pro is a phone. It will exist in the PC category not the smartphone category. It will have CShell allowing it to conform to a users context, a a PC via continuum and touch friendly when in hand. Part of the big picture is that smartphones are computers, with RAM, memory, processors and more and are sold and desired for these qualities that are analogous to PC specs. They run millions of programs and perform many functions that rank upon telephony in regards to usage. Texting, social media, web surfing and more rank above telephony usage. Telephony is just another function on these pocket computers we call smartphones. What I am proposing is an ACTUAL move to ACTUAL ultramobile PC running an ACTUAL full Windows 10 on ARM OS that would conform to a users context via CShell. It would be positioned in the market as an actual ultramobile PC, it would be marketed as an actual ultramobile PC, in the PC space, not smartphone space. Among its advertised features, but not its leading message would be that it also has telephony capabilities.
  • isnt it what we've been telling u, that this suppposed new device will not replace smartphones, it will be a PC whichcan make phone calls, majority dont need such a device and this will exist in a niche category. Never in your article you highlighted this, rather u present it as a modern smartphone killer,something that will replace the androids and iphones, thats wat ur fans want to believe and you maintain the ambiguity, what u've mentioned in the article, could have been clearly articulated in your articles but u hv never ever done that, this is the first time I see u acknoweledge this atleast in a comment
  • Hi techiez: Please reread the article, nowhere in this article I infer, state or suggest that the Surface 'phone' is a modern smartphone killer. What I clearly talk about here is Microsoft's plan to bring a mobile device to the mobile nit smartphone space as part if its Windows-on-mobile vision. Now you also claim that what you read here in comments is the first time I've mentioned that what I see as Microsoft's ultramobile PC strategy is not meant to compete directly with smartphones. You said: "that this suppposed new device will not replace smartphones, it will be a PC whichcan make phone calls,... could have been clearly articulated in your articles but u hv never ever done that, this is the first time I see u acknoweledge this atleast in a comment" Here are excerpts from several of my articles and links to the articles with publication dates where I clearly state what you claim I have never stated: WITH 'SURFACE PHONE,' WILL MICROSOFT LEARN FROM ITS PAST MARKETING MISTAKES? By Jason Ward Tuesday, Mar 28, 2017 at 1:00 pm EDT https://m.windowscentral.com/microsoft-surface-phone-marketing-windows-phones?_ga=2.43990950.2098520881.1498448383-1016588559.1492106805 History is the best teacher When Microsoft reenters the mobile space, it won't be with a smartphone but (presumably) with an ultramobile Surface PC. As a PC first, with telephony attributes, it will not be positioned to compete directly with smartphones, though it will overlap the smartphone space. This ultramobile Surface PC will be a category-defining device that Microsoft will need to introduce to the masses proactively. Hopefully, the company will have learned from past mistakes that a more balanced marketing approach of television ads combined with the integration of services is more effective than an overreliance on one method over the other. The fact that the ultramobile Surface PC will be part of the Surface family bodes well for the product. Microsoft has been far more aggressive about its advertisements, promotions, partnerships and product placements of Surface PCs than it has been for its phones. Microsoft's confidence in both its Surface brand and its PCs is evident. Smartphones, however, have been the company's Achilles heel. Will Microsoft execute more balanced marketing for its ultimate mobile device? It will be interesting to see if Microsoft will combine its confidence in its Surface brand and PC prowess with a more balanced approach to the marketing of the ultramobile PC. Microsoft has learned from competitors how to engineer marketing into its products. But has the company learned that for certain product categories, television marketing campaigns are likely a necessary supplement to its existing marketing? MICROSOFT MUST LAUNCH A SURFACE PHONE — AND GET IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME By Jason Ward Friday, Jun 30, 2017 at 1:00 pm EDT https://m.windowscentral.com/microsoft-must-launch-surface-phone-it-will-huge-gamble?_ga=2.115744005.2098520881.1498448383-1016588559.1492106805 Positioning matters Positioning any "Microsoft" mobile device directly