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Microsoft WILL release a Surface 'phone' — but it could take a while

Though I'm a long-time Windows phone user, my confidence doesn't rest on blind hope or sentiment. It is a pragmatic matter.

It's simply logical

Microsoft needs a pocketable mobile device in the market because many computing tasks are mobile. Microsoft's CEO Satya Nadella recently said, "I'm sure we'll make more phones, but they will not look like phones that are there today." The company's cross-platform efforts are noteworthy but don't replace the impact of a first-party device and platform.

Nadella also stated, and I've reiterated, that what he calls an "ultimate mobile device" won't be the typical smartphone. Thus, claims that Microsoft's done with first-party hardware because it's not making traditional smartphones are ill-founded.

Though Microsoft lost the smartphone war, it's in the midst of a multi-year effort to establish the Universal Windows Platform (UWP), which is a multi-pronged effort with ecosystem and device implications. During this transition, the components that I believe will comprise an ultimate mobile device have been under development, and some have been revealed over time. To understand what I believe Microsoft's doing, one must look at its investments as pieces to a puzzle. If Microsoft's vision of a mobile device that can be a PC via Continuum is to succeed, it must be able to perform, to a reasonable degree, the range of tasks of a modern Windows 10 PC.

Microsoft will talk about mobile at Build, just not how you expect

Features like system-wide inking, Win32 as UWP apps (via Project Centennial), Windows on ARM, Continuum, mixed-reality, gaming and more have been steadily introduced as parts of Windows that I believe Microsoft plans will benefit its ultimate mobile device. Consequently, the journey to this device is long, thus Microsoft's assertion that it won't launch until it's ready.

Pieces of the puzzle

Critical thinking about what Microsoft built into Windows 10 and existing Windows 10 devices can help visualize where Surface phone may fit in the Surface family and what Windows 10 features it might showcase.

I expect a Windows-10-on-ARM, pocketable, telephony-enabled ultramobile Surface PC. It'll be positioned alongside the Surface Book, Pro and Laptop as a mobility-focused mini PC. It will use Continuum and Centennial apps in desktop PC mode, and when in hand the UI will conform to touch-friendly mode via CShell. It'll be capable of the range of Windows 10 features, have a strong pen and inking focus and make phone calls.

Some have concluded that the removal of phone APIs from this year's Fall Update suggests a removal of telephony from Microsoft's strategy. That view considers only the immediate timetable. The road to Surface phone is long, but Microsoft seems dedicated to building the ecosystem infrastructure that will optimize it via:

  • UWP.
  • Continuum.
  • Inking.
  • Project Centennial.
  • Mixed Reality.
  • Gaming.
  • Cloud.
  • Cellular and telephony.

A puzzle is sold with the finished image to act as a guide for the placement of the pieces. Similarly, Microsoft's current devices, combined with the known needs of a mobile device, provides a picture that shows how parts of Microsoft's ecosystem may forge an ultimate mobile device. This won't happen near-term. A long-term perspective is needed as Microsoft matures and integrates the pieces.

Let's take a look at the company's progress.

Is early 2018 to soon for Surface phone?

An evolving vision

In January 2015, I wrote the following after considering the type of mobile device Windows 10 and OneCore might enable:

Is a seven-inch Microsoft Surface Mini Phablet on the Horizon? ... Rather than being a phone with a large display like virtually every other device ... dubbed phablet, the Surface Mini will be a tablet with telephony functionality. It will be a tablet first ... with the full functionality of a tablet and ... range of capabilities of a Windows 10 ARM-based tablet, but will also be capable of functioning as phone.A productivity tablet with software enhanced to take full advantage of a digitizer pen, full access to a host [of] multimedia and leisure apps with the additional ability to place and receive phone/Skype calls and Skype/SMS messaging is an easier sale than a seven-inch smartphone. 

My two-year-old analysis saw the company abandoning the traditional smartphone market for a device that was more PC than a phone (I didn't predict a foldable design then), telephony-enabled with an inking focus. Nadella's later assertions that Microsoft would build a device that doesn't have the traditional smartphone form and function, the advent of Windows on ARM, and the broader implementation of inking throughout Windows, as revealed at Build 2017, seem to indicate Microsoft's heading in the very direction I predicted.

UWP, cloud and Surface Mini reborn

In August 2015, I wrote Windows phone is the device that can replace your tablet and become your PC and stressed the single device vision Continuum for phone enables.

Surface phone must be much more than a phone

Additionally, my analysis of Microsoft's October 6, 2015, devices event emphasized the importance of the unifying platform which supplemented that argument:

Though the day was a means to showcase devices it was the Universal Windows Platform that took center stage ... the future of computing is "device-less" and the primary computing device is the cloud … The hub is you.

The UWP provides a common development and user experience platform for all device types. A single device that can become many would fit seamlessly in that environment. Furthermore, Microsoft's cloud-based platform which embraces iOS and Android with a Windows PC as a "hub" as demonstrated at Build, fits this scenario and an earlier analysis. Particularly if this device benefits from Nadella's still-pending promise of the best Microsoft experience being on Windows.

I expanded that analysis in November 2015, when I highlighted Devices Chief Panos Panay's commitment to the canceled Surface Mini, which he still takes notes on using his Surface Pen. I deduced elements of the Mini, such as its Pen-focused aspects, may be reborn in the Surface phone. Given Microsoft's investment in providing unique inking experiences in Windows, my analysis may be correct.

Is Microsoft's rumored Surface Phone a re-imagined Surface Mini

Continuum, collaboration and changing the game

In November 2015, I presented an analysis that Microsoft's mobile offensive is about changing the game. To do that the company committed to a strategy that diverged from traditional smartphone rules. This strategy had precedence in the company's creation of the 2-in-1 category with the Continuum-enabled Surface "tablet that can replace your laptop." The industry has since embraced context-conforming Windows 2-in-1s.

In December of 2015, I presented an analysis that highlighted the fact that Microsoft's success with 2-in-1s helped introduce consumers to the company's philosophy of one device that conforms to a user's context via Continuum. As part of Microsoft's long-term strategy this category-defining product is helping prepare consumers for an ultramobile Surface.

Additionally, since company culture matters, in January 2016 I conducted interviews with three Microsoft employees who stressed that the fear is gone and there's a greater level of collaboration. A category-defining mobile device that will be a PC with telephony and showcases various aspects of Windows 10 would need the collaboration of various teams who has the courage to take chances.  

Ultramobile PC, Centennial and Windows on ARM

In April of 2016, I argued that iterative advancements of smartphone hardware was a dead end. And Microsoft's ultramobile PC strategy was a solution to the declining PC market and evolution of the smartphone as it positions a PC for the mobile, not smartphone space. For the device to be a PC via Continuum, it needs to run PC apps.

In December of 2016, Microsoft announced that it's bringing full Windows 10 to ARM on cellular laptops, tablet sand 2-in-1 PCs. Not only are modernized Centennial "Win32" apps important to the cellular PC but this progress in Microsoft's strategy brought my analysis of an ARM-based telephony-enabled ultramobile PC into view. With a slow expansion into providing mobile data through the Windows Store, Microsoft may be headed toward less dependence on carriers over time.

Microsoft's Project Centennial app bridge makes sense of Win32 apps on phone

Windows 10 S and mixed reality

Microsoft knows it needs a mobile device in the market and that device cannot be a typical phone. Ensuring the ultimate mobile device can "be" a Windows desktop via Continuum is a necessary key differentiator.

Furthermore, Microsoft's an industry leader in mixed reality, and Windows mixed reality APIs are part of every Windows 10 device. Mixed reality may be a big part of the ultimate mobile device.

The Surface phone won't be a phone. It'll be a telephony-enabled ultramobile PC that showcases the range and power of Windows 10 on a pocketable device. As you see, the range of features are broad, complex and still maturing. We'll get there in time. Meanwhile, keep an eye on what Microsoft's doing with its puzzle pieces, and you'll see how it's all coming together.

Also Read:

How Microsoft can ensure Surface phone success

With Surface phone will Microsoft learn from past marketing mistakes

Why Windows 10 S, Project Centennial are critical to Continuum's success

Why Xamarin is the future of mobile for Microsoft

Jason L Ward is a columnist at Windows Central. He provides unique big picture analysis of the complex world of Microsoft. Jason takes the small clues and gives you an insightful big picture perspective through storytelling that you won't find *anywhere* else. Seriously, this dude thinks outside the box. Follow him on Twitter at @JLTechWord. He's doing the "write" thing!

413 Comments
  • Thanks for reading folks! The Surface phone has been anticipated for some time. And as we know, alone it will do little to nothing for Microsofts mobile fortunes as I've asserted in articles like: "Is early 2018 to soon for a Surface phone" where I stress the need for ecosystem building efforts. In this piece I stressed the platform and ecosystem building "components" that I believe Microsoft is aligning that will be critical for an ultimate mobile device (ie inking, UWP, Centennial, mixed reality, gaming, ) These are moving parts of the puzzle that when one envisions where a ultimate mobile device might fit in the Surface family, a Windows 10 device meant to showcase Windows 10 features but has a mobility focus, - an ultramobile Surface - it's easier to see what Microsoft may be doing with it's ecosystem in relation to its mobile vision and why the Surface phone is "taking so long". As MS stressed it won't launch until ready. Microsoft needs and has confirmed an ultimate mobile device that doesn't play by the other guy's smartphone rules is coming. Don't expect a flow of details from Microsoft though. Thoughtfully following the moving parts of this picture is your only recourse. Besides a professed commitment to mobile Microsoft, as it did with HoloLens and Surface, is tight-lipped.
  • Oh yeah...😎 For those who didn't read and just jumped into comments. Let's have an intelligent discussion based on the content of the piece. For that to happen, you'll have to go back and read. When you don't read, it shows.🤔 "He who gives an answer before he hears, it is his folly and shame." Agree or disagree - LET'S TALK (intelligently)😉!!!
  • Title was misleading as news when, in fact, it's just more speculation. Plus, it's already been 1.5 years since Microsoft's last phone, which to some of us is already past taking "a while." I didn't make it past the first paragraph.
  • Very misleading article. Also stopped reading after the first paragraph. I think we are all tired of these kinda speculations and beliefs, we need real facts.
  • It's called an EDITORIAL... He doesn't have to present solid facts. It's based on subjections.. This is Jason's point of view, and you can take it, or leave it.... But, you can't expect the man not to voice his point of view.... EDITORIAL!
  • Yeah, I didn't get far enough to see the editorial stamp so thought maybe Ward had some news. He has done news articles in the past.
  • Lol. Well, MS hasn't officially said anything regarding a Surface Phone, and we all know by now to even take leaked Information with a grain of salt........
    .....
    Fact is that there IS more evidence that MS HAS intent to make a mobile device, than there is evidence that MS has no intention of making a mobile device.... I can't wait for someone to argue this with me.😂😂😂 I'm ready
  • Will take a lot from MS to create back real fans...not just a piece of hardware.   Cloud first, "mobilefirst....customer last
  • On an Android phone I see
  • No you're right. Microsoft is going to do ultra-mobile one way or the other. The valid frustrations about not having a top-of-the-line mobile experience should not blind us to the signs.
  • I mean, you're not wrong. For how long Windows Mobile has been going on - literally decades - its certainly not going to just stop now.
  • Right.
  • What apps will even be left after all of this? 90% or so are still 8.1 based apps. Doubt those will even work on a Surface phone.
  • Thanks rodney. :-)
  • NP... "Grain of Salt" these guys need to remember, rather than getting thier garter wedged to tight..
  • Just the Surface Mini and Pen combo and also importance of UWP makes it obvious. There will be a "phone" in the future, Jason.
  • Sorry Jason, with all due respect this article just seems like a whole lot of 'as i wrote', 'as i already said' , 'I I I...', it feels more like you're just pumping up your own tyres and recycling old articles that we've all read before, and putting information together that others have already put together. Nobody cares who said it first bla bla bla, we all just have to be patient and get on with our lives and if they're going to make something, it will come. If you need to get an iPhone or android in the meantime, go for it, but the current windows phones work fine. Life goes on. It's just a phone ...
  • In this case it's a "Warditorial".  :) A certified one at that!
  • Indeed! :-)
  • Fortunately, Microsoft has all the time in the world... to launch another failing product.
  • Lol. I'm a fan, but considering all we've been through, I'll let you have that one..... After all, considering MS track record with marketing, my greatest fear is that they will make a stupendously terrific Surface Phone, and launch all stock into outer space, so that nobody can get their hands on one... They would hate to actually sell one. That would make them sick to their stomachs.😂😂😂
  • Did you get your Surface 3?
  • It should be on It's way... There was a $160 replacement fee, which is ridiculous for a device that old.. But, it's tied into my monthly payments to att, and those aren't gonna stop, so I had no choice. We're going to catch the fool who stole it, and he's gonna pay...
  • Sorry dude. Admins, your upvote button is too close to the report button. 😜
  • It's rehashed drivel from a troll author begging for clicks. It brings nothing new or useful to the table.
  • WRONG. Editorials are commentary on FACTS. There are no facts here, only speculation. This article is clickbait on a slow news day.
  • How about not giving a f***. The best fact. Do it, you'll feel better. The advice is not just for you.
  • This is not an news article. This is analysis, speculations, possibilities based on subjective things... I guess you don't need newspapers.
  • I agree. It was nothing more thant the author reminiscing  about  previous speculations and giving self congratulatory evidence based on more speculation. I am tired of not have a firm release date on a decent Windows phone. We haven't had a good WP since the 1520 and if there isn't something released this year I"m switching to Android. The 950 was a lackluster phone 2 years ago when it first came out and it's only gotten worse since then. The few apps that it does have seem to be no longer even getting updates from their developers. RIP WP.
  • "It was nothing more thant the author reminiscing  about  previous speculations and giving self congratulatory evidence based on more speculation."  This has been a recurring theme with Jason's editorials over the last few months.  I'm seriously thinking that real news is so thin, that word counts can only be reached by constantly regurgitating old material.  This editorial seems particularly laden with "I' and "My" ... and while I appreciate Jason's views and insights, a "subtle" reminder of those when there's new material to be presented would be sufficient.  I enjoy his writing style in general, and the guy has heart ... surely Windows Central can point his expertise at something other than Windows Phone, at least until there's something new to share?
  • I actually have to agree on more subtlety needed with reminders of his previous assertions. It gets a bit old hat when reading.
  • Hi ProfessMudgitd, Hopefully you read my piece yesterday on Microsoft's AI Driven camera tech, my recent piece about Windows 10 S and Surface laptop taking on Apple and Google, my other recent piece on Windows S and Continuum which includes a Q and A with Microsoft's Stefan Wick. I appreciate your desire for my "expertise" to be pointed in other directions and a review of my work: www.windowscentral.com/author/jason-ward shows that it is applied elsewhere.
    Sadly though just as much effort, and passion goes into those pieces, somehow, the pieces about phone seem to stand out in some readers minds as "all that I write about." That simply is not true.
    Furthermore this piece is a piece reflecting why I believe MS will launch a Surface Phone. That's one of the reasons I did a "history walk" going back to 2015 up to the present highlighting various points that support my perspective. That was also purposefully done because some readers treat a piece like a microcosm and despite being 'regulars' often don't connect previous content. Then there are a percentage of readers based on data who aren't regulars who hit the site.
    These are some of reasons why I was sure to include points from previous peices in one space that helped to tell "Why I believe Microsoft would launch a Surface phone"
  • Hi Jason.  Firstly, my apologies ... I was probably a bit out of line with my last comment.   Yes, I have read all your previous pieces.  In fact, I read EVERY piece that's released on Windows Central, with the exception of those with game-achievement-orientated titles ("How to beat the first boss (P.A.X. robot) in The Surge", sorry Jez!).   Like many others, I think my frustration is evolving.  It started off being about the decline of Windows Phone, then the lack of any new information, and now the re-hashing of plot lines we've heard many times.   That said, I totally understand that there may be new readers who haven't been following the downward spiral of Windows Phone for years, and an opinion piece like this that links to a plethora of previous pieces provides those readers with a rich base from which to learn, and form their own opinions.   What I probably should have done was exercise my right as a reader, and simply decided "I'm not going to read any more of Jason's windows phone pieces, until I hear news from my other sources ... and then I'll pick up the threads, and see how the predictions have panned out".   So, again, my apologies.  I hadn't thought through the "new reader" aspect.  Your work is well appreciated.  Keep on doing the "write" thing!
  • No problem. All is well. I could probably have connected older content with less I and My statements. Perhaps, "we've published" 🤔hmmm
  • You're even on Android?
  • So will we see less of I Me Myself?
  • My issue is that I'm tired of waiting - no firm dates, no hardware, nothing. I have a Surface Pro 3. I don't need a 5, or a Book, or a laptop. I have a 950XL, so I want something in the ultramobile/phone category. MS had the right idea with the Mini. Why not build from that? Release SOMETHING, for pete's sake!!
  • Jason, you are asking for far too much critical thinking abilities from the readers here. This bunch is not a contemplative, forward thinking data driven audience with an innate ability to discern fact from speculation. Some try to think outside of the box but right up against it's walls.
  • Click bait.
    The Jason Ward editorial's are like some nutty professor presenting his thesis on the evolution of stone age man, constant theoretical ramblings like a stuffy university lecturers presentation, all convoluted and boring and definitely not representative of what it really is....a bunch of us deluded fan boys who just want a new WP venting online !
    Just tell it like it is Jason and forget trying to impress with a 1000 page thesis, this is just a forum ffs.
  • n m Thanks for your continued presence despite the criticism😉
  • Nope, the 950 has gotten way better. I have 2 950xl as daily driver and backup. I'm talking about stability, os features and battery life.
  • You should have been off the 1520 long ago, The 950XL isnt lackluster.  I loved my 1520, but I got $100 for it on ebay, and used it towards the 950.  Its similar to the people still using Windows 7. They are hurting Microsoft, and hurting us all, by not consolidating on one platform.  While your refusal to upgrade on time prolly didnt hurt Microsoft much, every little bit hurts.
  • "Its similar to the people still using Windows 7. They are hurting Microsoft, and hurting us all, by not consolidating on one platform. " What?   Boo Hoo for Microsoft.  It may surprise you to learn that the vast majority of people using Windows don't concern themselves with the well-being of Microsoft.  Or you either.  Or "us all".  They just want to get on with whatever they are trying to get done on their computer.   We are not here to "help Microsoft".  In fact, Microsoft should be helping US.  You know, the customers. On top of that, there is a reason that Windows 10 is at 26% share, while Other Windows versions are at a combined 64% share. 
  • I'm trying to figure out what's so misleading.  "Microsoft WILL release a Surface 'phone' — but it could take a while".  His ascertain is that Microsoft will release a Surface "phone" but it won't be anytime soon; Well, not until all the pieces come together (could be one year or 10 years - who knows).  And by phone he means a PC in your pocket with phone capabilities.  Was there some magic phraseology that was suppose to be deciphered?  If there was, it's way beyond my education level.  You do realize this is an op-ed?  It's based on someone's opinion on what they believe the future holds.
    Personally I think it's a waste of time to create the type of device that's being described but many of us accuse Microsoft of not being forward thinking and generally reacting late.  If this concept is forward thinking then I guess we'll see where it takes them if and when it happens.
  • Nicely said
  • Dude, all MS needs to do is make a phone with a camera that can take a picture of the ladies, but show them butt a$$ naked in the picture. They can call it "augmented nudity"⛽
    .......
    End of story. That device would sell,, well let's see, there's 6.5 billion people on this earth, and about 3 billion are men.... Yes, MS would sell 3 billion "Windows Phones"....
    In a months time GoogApple will close their doors. 😎😂😎😂
  • You may not know this, but Sony did create a camera that could do that years ago.  They had a camera that could take infrared pics and see through people's clothing.  Unfortunately they didn't sell Billions.  :)
  • Haha 😆
  • Same with me, plus I get sick of so much pictures of this Nutella guy. 😂
  • Sorry lippidp, but as a member of the WC team I don't have final say on the titles of my pieces. When I write a piece, I assign a title, but the duty editor for the day, gives things a second eye, and tweaks titles at his discretion, which is his right and position to do.
  • No sweat. You're a great writer, btw!
  • Thanks👍🏿
  • Actually, Jason,,, it feels like you're all we have left of "Classic Windows Central".... Well, Dan, and Zack.. But, Dan's problem is that he's too open minded, and not biased enough.. Lol
  • Hey Rodney, thanks for the support, but trust me..I'm a tech-head and if I could afford it, I have just about every phone from every platform. 😎 I prefer Windows phone but I could use any device (with varying degrees of satisfaction of course). Honestly speaking there are some things each OS does better than the other, and some advantages each company, Apple, Google and Microsoft, has over the other. I write about Microsoft but I see the value of other platforms as well.😉
  • LOL, at first glance, I thought your thumbs up was the 💩 sign.
  • I could tell it's this columnist by the title. Lol. 
  • Hints in Fall Creator Update: New Device: RS3: bool StartUI::PlatformCapability::IsAndromedaPlatform() checks HKLM\Software\Microsoft\CoreShell\Composer\DefaultClassId == "Andromeda" https://mobile.twitter.com/h0x0d/status/865492892734730241?ref_src=twsrc... With 2 hinges and acceleraters (foldable?) https://mobile.twitter.com/h0x0d/status/865413437551067137?ref_src=twsrc...
  • No! Microsoft WILL NOT release anything with phone call capabilities any more! The latest Insider build has most of its phone call capabilities APIs removed! The only cellular APIs left are for Data only... https://mspoweruser.com/microsoft-removes-phone-call-related-apis-window...
  • You're crazy....
  • Haha, sadly, this is how they all talk in the future. Don't get scared, i mean, put technologie In wrong hands, and see what Happens! Well, look at the movie Idiocracy. is the BeST interpretation of the future. Nope people will not get smarter.
  • 😂😂😂
  • Seems people are getting dumber.
  • Funny....I just put the latest insider build on my phone yesterday.....still works. You do realize it's two different forks now right?
  • One is a maintanance fork, and the other is where the real development is.  That's pretty obvious.  Sure, it's possible there's something else going on, but Occam's razor says we shouldn't look to hard for those alternatives. MS is exiting the consumer-facing market and probably winding down Windows, overall.  When they said 10 was the last version, they really meant it.  So no, there will never be a Surface Phone.  Ever.  Or, for that matter, probably any new Windows Phone by anyone.
  • Windows will never "Die down". Do you know how many business' rely on Windows? Entire enterprises. There is no way Windows is ever going away unless Linux or Apple can create anything better than a fully intergrated Windows Domain. And for that, they'd need to replace Office, Exchange Server, Lync Server, Windows 2012/2016, SCCM, Sharepoint, and many many more.  And to exit consumer-facing market? No....they have the majority market share. Why on earth would they do that? There are probably still more people running Windows XP than MAC or Linux.   BTW....there are orginizations that are switching to Windows Phones for their ease of meshing with their environment. Show me any other phone that can be locked down with Group Policy within a windows domain....
  • Sadly, if a paradigm shift happens in the whole IT world, MS could disappear easily
  • Hi Orion I addressed that in the article: "Some have concluded that the removal of phone APIs from this year's Fall Update suggests a removal of telephony from Microsoft's strategy. That view considers only the immediate timetable. The road to Surface phone is long, but Microsoft seems dedicated to building the ecosystem infrastructure that will optimize it via: UWP. Continuum. Inking. Project Centennial. Mixed Reality. Gaming. Cloud. Cellular and telephony." Thanks for jumping in. :-)
  • Orion, they removed People from the Creators Update and it's back... Also, there could be more behind the scenes or A/B testing too. There is no way Microsoft is going to limit what the Qualcomm ARM CPU can do. That's something the hardware manufactures will have to decide.
  • Actually, everything that is hardware can be limited via Software;)
  • That goes without saying, but it's illogical Microsoft would limit what their partners can do with such a robust mobile platform.
  • My guess is that they could be retiring those api's in favor of new ones that are being worked on that would be more flexible.  Maybe something that could accomodate third party dialers or integrate third party call and message services like skype.
  • Microsoft makes many versions of it's operating systems. for instance Windows 10S does not have the same exact Code as full Windows 10 does. Microsoft Windows 10 Enterprise does not have the same code or features as Windows 10 home version. This build is made for Windows 10 Computers that will not have sims , 4G Cellular connections. Some of Microsoft's OEM partners will want to make laptops with sims,  4g cellular capability. these new Windows 10 laptops will have the code inside them so they can us 4G cellular tech connect to the internet.  I donot see Microsoft making ALL Windows 10 device incapable of getting on the internet through 4G cellular technology and just be WIFI only laptops,, Tablets, laptops ect if Microsoft doe this Apple  Laptops that have 4G celular tech will sell like hot cakes.
  • They'll be putting the over into the one core code.
  • Jason, Please forgive the "newbie" esque question but whatever happens with W10 on ARM, MS are going to have to find some way of getting it on existing devices, no? We've seen that no one is going to flock to anything ultra-portable (it will still be seen as mobile) from MS. So what exactly is W10 on ARM? Logically speaking from a non-techie, my current phone should be capable of running it. Lots of memory and disk space. There's going to have to be a lot of testing for this to work. Will WindowsInsiders get subsidized devices to help the story along? There is one thing to talk and discuss it but before a major release, surely it needs to be right and that is one thing they've had a hard time with in the mobile market. I would think that taking full desktop W10 to a current surface device is more about making the OS fit the form factor but mobile is way different. I can see the future like I can see the island across the shark infested water but how the hell do I get there? Cheers, good weekend all.
  • Windows 10 on ARM isn't​ just for phones. It will mainly be powering laptops, tablets and maybe desktops. We will see if it ever is used for phone like devices. Nadella's statement makes that seem less likely now.
  • Good article I agree with you. Only let down by the fact its an opinion / prediction but lets hope you are on to something
  • More Windows Phone spam articles unfortunately. It's never going to happen. Microsoft in finished in the mobile space. They should focus their efforts at this point on making their services work properly on iOS and Android. They should open up Xbox Live for mobile games to these platforms as well. Any hope of having Windows on a mobile device is long gone. Also, for any mobile device to succeed, it has to work in the car. Apple and Google both have solutions today to interface their mobile devices to your car screen. Microsoft doesn't have it, and doesn't seem to be interested in it. This makes zero sense to me given their push for Continuum. Why did they quit the MirrorLink standards group? Why didn't they have any way to use your phone in your car? The simple fact is, no one at Microsoft has a clue how people actually use mobile devices.  
  • I don't get any I would want my phone apps to appear on a screen in my car.
  • Why wouldn't you want your music, maps and telephone app easily accessible in your car? You think the auto manufacturers are going to do a better job with these services than Microsoft?
  • But they're already easily accessible via the hand held device I carry with me.  Although being able to use the GPS on the car screen I suppose would be preferable.  I guess I could see it, but it's certainly not something I'm clamoring for.
  • Yeah, I was just asking the question. I think I agree with you. I have used Android auto and the apps are so limited I usually get frustrated and use my phone. The potential is there, but it isn't a deal breaker.
  • Says who?
  • Agreed.
    Yet this constant stream of articles keep coming how MS is somehow in the process of magically changing the game and are ahead of the curve.
    History says they couldn't organise a bang at a brothel so how the hell are we supposed to now believe they have the jump on apple and google with some magical new game changing device.
    Given their long history, that's Totally and completely laughable.
    And how can Jason put the peices together when clearly MS can not themselves
  • Well maybe. Surface devices have always been premium. Such a device is likely to be for enterprise computing and it may start at $900 - $1000 in price. It might well be "pocketable" but Continuum is very much a business differentiator too. With the last flagship mobile phone from Microsoft shipping in late 2015 and Microsoft's percieved complete abandonment of the mobile phone os space the only remaining space is a cut-down PC or, as Microsoft call it, an ultra mobile device.  Of course it could happen. However the mobile phone form factor, sticking at 5.5inches as a maximum, is there for a reason. It actually does fit into a pocket. Tablet sales are somewhere between tanking and flat. PC sales are flat except in premium PCs. So the space to sell something new is very small. I am sure enthusiasts will buy a Surface Phone/Mobile. Some in business might buy it. The critical factor remains useful applications. It the Store doesn't pick up it may be DOA.
  • Samsung already entered the ultra mobile PC market. Microsoft needs to get on it if that really is their intention. I do not believe​ it is. Why would they abandon mobile if it was?
  • I think one of the keys to the 'form factor' that MS will take with a SP is the removal of the band device and the uptake of flexible/foldable screens that has been happening with all major companies. Some might say that the Band device was discontinued because of quality of the product even though it was popular, but to me, that could have easily been addressed. I believe they have taken note that Apple has sold many watches, that people want fitness accessories, AND people still want a phone per se although not to make calls so much, but to have that option. This all points to the new form factor being a wrist device that is 1) a watch, 2) a fitness device, 3) a phone, 4) a computer that runs on ARM, Shell, and Continuum. The device would be able to flex back to traditional shape with a flat surface and be used with a pen for inking. Also, a telling factor that this is happening is the length of time it is taking, that also works within the framework of building the store via Windows 10s etc. I think that a Surface Mini with LTE could be released in Shanghai, but this will NOT be the SP. Great article again Jason, thanks for keeping it positive and thoughtfully speculative.
  • I think you're right Aden, and I suspect it's still at least 2 years away. Hope I'm wrong and it's sooner! In the meantime I finally gave in and bought an Honor 8. Real nice phine and with Launcher 10 it's very W10M like, plus I'm discovering a hell of a lot of apps are wayyyy better than their mobile website versions .... :/
  • Jason, once all the good things from Windows phone have being adapted/copied by IOS & Android, as it's happening. Do you believe, there is still a chance for innovation for the "Surface Phone"?
  • You'll forgive us if we dont read the whole article because we're already familiar with your writing style: 1) Entire paragraphs stating the mind numbingly obvious and presented as if it was some new insight 2) Interspersed with fawning pictures of Cueball Head looking like he's presenting somewhere 3) and "watermarked" with that non-word you made up for your branding "Warditorial".
  • Read it all. Despite the inordinate length. Learned nothing concrete. All pure speculation. Whatever the position may be, four words would have sufficed to spell out the reality for Microsoft and mobile: "Too little, too late".
  • Misleading title
  • Why should people lose their time. They know they'll read a void articles (when it comes to your phone articles, not talking about all your work) so they are right to come here and just tell you to stop writing bs :-) on the other hand it's perfectly understandable, they pay you to invent bs so you are just doing a great job.
  • Actually, what I'm hoping to help some folks who are really interested in seeing what Microsoft may be doing in mobile based on a stated commitment to mobile, a statement of creating an ultimate mobile device and an recent statement that they WILL make more phones is to first acknowledge that MS likely wil remain silent so we won't be given any news anytime soon. So rather than sitting around passively as waiting for them to reveal what's in the shadows, I'm hoping to encourage people to proactively think about what Microsoft is doing "in the light".
    What investments are they making, what technologies are they using, how are they integrating features into Windows 10, how are those features showing up o other first party hardware like the Surface line and HoloLens, what direction are they pushing the industry, what are their investments in ARM and mobile, etc. When you pause for a amount and rake odd your "hungry for News (that's nor coming) hat, and put on "Your critical thinking" hat, you can begin to see where Microsoft may be positioning the ecosystem and it platform for the ultimate mobile device the Nadella said is coming. Now, I'm like everyone here and I'm a fan. I'd like to know what's happening in great detail as well. MS isn't spilling "all" the beans yet. But I also like all of you and I have a brain, and applying a little thought what beans Microsoft IS spilling as it unfolds its computing, UWP, and first-party strategy, there's more to be seen.
  • We don't criticize you for not having news. We crticize you for creating your own narration based only on speculation. All you have been saying for months is "it would make sense to invest in mobile", thank you!! ... And I'm not hungry because I'm already starved like everyone else but you.
  • I can see where Windows 10 S is another piece of the puzzle to get developers building or transitioning their x86 apps to UWP. It's going to take time but if the Surface Mobile device is 2-3 years away there is plenty of time for Microsoft to push on these apps. This is important to ensure that when such device is released the apps are already there rather than duplicating the past mistakes of having a mobile device and hope for app development.
  • In addition to Jason's list, W10S, CShell, 5G, foldble screen, eSIM and newer Snapdragon processors are all the pieces of puzzle.  Hopefully, the ultramobile device will arrive in 2018. My dream specs: - 6" with a foldable screen - it is a phone when folded and a 8" tablet when unfolded. - 5G with eSIM support - CShell supported Continuum - W10S - runs Store apps and progressive web apps - 8GB RAM with 256GB SSD storage
  • Hey, I have some Half-Life 3 preorders to sell you...   /s
  • I hope you are right and there is an ultimate Surface mobile device in the works.  I can be patient if neccessary as I currently use a Galaxy S6 that will not be paid for  in full until the end of this year and yet is still in excellent condition.  I just hope that it is available by the time I am need of a new phone in two years.
  • It is a smart move.  Nadella is a clever man who can see 10 moves ahead.  A few years ago, I suggested that the Windows phone was a dead man walking.  I got flamed but it was true.  Balmer sealed its fate when Windows 8 was botched.  Nadella is only preventing throwing good money after bad.    He's also very smart to refrain from reentering until he has something different to get attention and steal market share.  In the meatime, he needs to fight to keep MSFT relevant in the mobile market and also protect his flanks and the core WIndows business.  Windows S, UWP, etc. are all actions to that end.  It's ugly but he's doing the right things and hopefully can save this company.  if Balmer was still CEO the stock would be $30 and they'd be 3-5 years from being bought out by Google.   Now, they have a fighting chance even if things are far from certain.
  • If Ballmer was the CEO WP would be at 25% in Europe now. Satya is a stock slave, he s an incompetent. He completely ruined the magic relationship between Ms and the developer community, and this will be just impossible to resume.
    He is only able to fire off people. No mobile, no future.
  • Even if they hit 25% in a couple European​countries, they still wouldn't break 5% worldwide. Sales numbers would still be small and they would still be only selling low end, cheap hardware with no profit. If those European countries had actual potential then Microsoft wouldn't have backed off.
  • I agree 'bleached'. People like venetasoft thing WP is the end all goal and are disappointed in Nadella's decisions. But they are looking at this like some game. This is no game and he DOES have to worry about shareholders, profitability and the overall growth of MSFT. There is no dishonor in retreating on the battle field when you can live to fight another day. If he rebuilds MSFTs relevance in mobile from a software only angle, then that is a victory and allows them to come back later with a hardware/os offering. If they went "all in" with a standalone OS strategy, and lost, they'd end up with nothing and a full defeat. This is just the smart move. In the meantime, I'll take care of my 950XL and see what 2018 brings!
  • This is how I've summised Microsoft's strategy much the same way as you have Jason. Massive enterprises such as Microsoft must have long term roadways in place, In hindsight with Windows Phone 7 announced in 2010, Windows 8 (for PC) announced in 2012 and Windows 10 in 2014 the huge undertaking to bring 'OneCore', one OS running on each device was not going to happen overnight. Seeing the minimal investment the earlier mobile OS got in terms of marketing and 'strategy' at the time really makes sense because why rebuild a market, but then change tac again in the near future. Rather, go dark and continue to support what is there and bide time till OneCore is truly realised. We had major shifts when WM6 moved to WP7, then WP8/8.1, and again for Windows 10 Mobile (and all the while a number were complaining about Microsoft's shift in direction with mobile), and now we have another change on the way bringing Windows 10 (OneCore) to all devices. As this latest change was 'close', Microsoft has opted (as I see it), not to bring out any other hardware that will shortly be made redundant once this 'One OS to run on all devices' is released so as not to piss more people off. Yes, there are times I get frustrated by the lack of anything going on in Microsoft's traditional mobile sector but I remind myself of the big picture again and my patience returns. For me the biggest gripe I have is Microsoft's lack of transparency in its direction. Yep, they hint at it or cryptically bounce from it but this frustrates more than anything. The tight lipped nature, even though I understand it in a business view, does make one impatient. If they were to bring a long term announcement it would help. Would it hurt if they did? No, as I see it Microsoft is unique as a company to be the only one that could pull all this together well. No other company has the resources or the scope to do similar, so I'm not sure why all the cryptic info and not just come out and lay it on the table. Anyway, I'm in it for the long haul as I don't see any other viable alternative for my use.
  • I think, ultimately, they plan to release a small Surface tablet that folds in half to be pocketable like a phone. It will use eSim and this be fully phone capable, but will be a full blown Windows on ARM PC that you can dock and use with a monitor, keyboard, and mouse. One device that can rule them all, so to speak. And I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Right now, though, MS just looks lost. They really should consider how much they are driving people away, with their current say nothing and put everything on Android and iOS strategy. It's not helping them at all.
  • I have indeed read the article, but what is puzzling (no pun intended) is why Microsoft feels the need to drag their feet. They know how to make phones, they know how to make Surface devices, they know how to get full Windows 10 on ARM, they have continuum...waiting until 2018 or 2019 is irresponsible in my opinion.
  • The problem with this strategy is three fold. First it assume that you can understand consumers and their needs by simple observation and not being an active participant in the market.  Second, it assumes there aren't any active competitors who could influence consumers to go in different directions, or could beat you to that 'ultimate' device.  In fact by being active participants and getting direct consumer feedback, they are likely to know sooner and better what consumers want then someone who is simply observing the process.  The other aspect is an acitve player also likely has the supply channels, mmarketing, manufacturing expertices etc to make that device a reality sooner then a new player.  Third, consumer loyality does matter and isn't earned easily, especially by an outsider re-entering a market after a lengthy absence.  I understand that management and shareholders love the concept of 'disruptive technologies' making them an overnight success but the reality is they are like winning the lotto, a distance crap shoot at best and really even more a crap shoot when a company thinks they can step up to the plate and hit a homerun on the first pitch any investor can tell you that just isn't how it works for anyone including Apple, Google or Microsoft.
  • Thanks for good article, Jason. I am concerned about your comment on MS refocus away from telefony -- I may have missed earlier news on it, but I'd appreciate elaboration of what that means. So you know, I run a small ed-tech business that leverages MS technologies, especially Sharepoint, Outlook (desktop) and Skype for Business. Tks!
  • Thank you for writing yet another article on putting the pieces back together :3
  • I think if nothing at all mobile comes from the event next week, then that will only add to what we already know and see now. I think you are right in that it could be some time before we see the ultra mobile device. There are many items still in development. Again good article and enjoyed reading it.
  • Thanks Nate🙂
  • All I hope for is an upgrade path from my current device. Once my 950XL is EOL, that there is another Windows device waiting to take my calls. Whatever the form factor. If I go back to Android for my phone calls, I can't promise Microsoft that I'll be back again. I of course have my wish list. But I'll spare you all the prattling off of specs and screen sizes for one day.
  • I want to upgrade my 950XL to an HP Elite X3 or Alcatel Idol 4S with Windows. I'd like to get the performance boost of the Snapdragon 820 as I use Continuum daily and play Warhammer 40K: Freeblade which causes the 950XL to heat up. I'll probably end up with the Idol 4S due to it being vastly cheaper than the Elite X3.  
  • Word of advice, don't get rid of your 950XL until you're fully happy with the Idol 4S.  While there was a little performance increase, I couldn't get past the power button placement, the lower quality camera and the lack of wireless charging.  I'm back to using a 950 again.
  • Thanks for that.  I too was consider the Alcatel, but I just don't know if I could be happy with a relatively poor camera.  It's surprising how many pictures I take.
  • The camera isn't poor, it's just not great.
  • But relatively speaking, as in "relative to the 950XL", would you say it's poor in comparison?
  • No, relative to the 950xl, of which is exceptional, and I have one by the way - the Idol's camera is 'good'. Not poor, not ****, not great, just good.
  • wait for the elite x3 v2 😍. It will be there soon i hope. Will replace my current elite x3.
  • I'm hoping the HP Elite X3 v2 will be released at Shanghai!!!!
  • No way HP will go forward with that device. W10M is dead. They will probably shelve it until WoA is available for phones, if it ever does become available for phones.
  • I "upgraded" from a 1520 to the Elite x3. It is still laden with issues. I wish I would have gone for the 950XL. Plus, I would have the Wallet and TTP working - and an equalizer, and many other features. So sad.
  • I can recommend both phones. For battery life I'd go for the HP
  • I can recommend both phones although there are good reasons to have the 950xl as well. The HP battery life, awesome screen, size and looks are good reasons for getting it, but the Idol is a beautiful phone as well, screen not as good, battery life not as good, and size is similar to 950xl, but....that Idol is a slippery *************, so will 100% need a case/cover.
  • My Lumia 950xl was stolen 2 weeks ago, I have Samsung s7 and couldn't make it my main device so I had to go back to my first Lumia 535 as main device and surprisingly works well lol only camera 📷 is let down coz 950xl is the best
  • Why not get a used 950XL?
  • That sucks dude. Sorry to hear that. I once forgot my 1020 in a restaurant. I went back and got it, but my brother joked the only reason it was still there was cuz it was a windows phone lol
  • Dude....do a find my phone on accounts.microsoft.com. Remember, they can't wipe your phone without your logon info. So if it connects to a wifi hotspot or anything, you should be able to find it as long as it has power.
  • Same here. I will hold out with my 950XL as long as possible but if another windows mobile device is not available when I finally do move on I probably won't go back to windows. If I have to go through the hassle of readjusting to Android and rebuying apps that I bought for my windows phone I'll just stick with what works. The only thing that might bring me back would be a killer camera (since that's what got me to swich from android to windows to begin with) but, it seems that android phones have pretty much caught up on the camera front.
  • Caught up? There isn't a non-Android device in the top 10 mobile cameras!
  • With the exception of every article that has the iPhone 7 in their top 10.
  • https://www.dxomark.com/mobiles/column-right/mobile-scores DXO doesn't have it in their top 10. This is from a dedicated camera site. Phone reviews are always going to reference the iPhone as a widely used standard. That doesn't mean it is on the top 10 cameras.
  • And basing the criteria on a single metric, doesn't mean the top image quality phone are the best cameras either. There are many other things that make up a good quality camera.
  • True that!
  • DXO is massively flawed or bias.  They rate the iphone 6s as twice as good as the 1020.   Owning both,  I can tell you they are FLAT OUT WRONG!  the 1020 produces MUCH better images than the 6s.   I never ever trusted them.  Just like DPREVIEW.COM.   If it's not nikon or canon there,  its garbage.  The 1020's camera is better than the "fill in the blank" at image quality hands down.  I have not seen a camera in a phone come close to the pure quality of image.  
  • The 6S gets an 82 from them and the 1020 scored a 74. If you read their review of the 1020, you would see that it actually scores a 79 for stills but the video quality is poor so it drags the overall score down. When the 1020 was released they regarded the 808 Pureview as the best phone camera. I don't see a Nikon or Canon even on the mobile list!
  • On that site DXo...the 1020 tested a 41  no 74.  I was talking about how DPREVIEW does the same thing...they fudge tests, and just down right say the opposite of what alot of people see in the testing....to give certian products a "win".   
  • https://www.dxomark.com/Mobiles/Nokia-Lumia-1020-overview-Has-the-best-g... They gave it a 74 overall. That is quite a conspiracy theory. All these sites colluded to lower the rank of the 1020! Maybe megapixels do not automatically make a camera good.
  • No,  it does not....but I have a bunch of cameras,  phones, etc...and the 1020 still takes better pictures than any camera on a phone I have seen yet.  leave the speed out...
  • https://www.dxomark.com/content-search?searchText=lumia+1020
  • You didn't read/understand that link you posted. It scored a 41 for the sensor when compared to all sensors including dedicated cameras. I don't think you expect a phone sensor to score well against a DSLR, right?
  • Ahh...got it....I searched 1020 and got the score of 41...did not know they had everything seperated....anyways...by any standard,  the 1020 still produces better images than any other phone camera to date.   Don't care about MP etc...I talking about actual photographs.
  • Also holding onto my 950XL simply for the camera. I'm not buying a fancy new phone until the functional parts of the phone or camera stop working and i'm forced to.
  • The other  problem is,  IF..and this is a MASSIVELY HUGE IF!!!!!......MS releases a portable device,  your not getting a camera like the 950.  your more like getting lumia 520 like images....nothing spectacular at all.....remember that entire team was fired.
  • I just hope there really is a "pocketable" device. 5.5-6", you know, essentially a phone. I'm all for cellular in Surface and other devices but I still want a phone sized device as well. In addition, I wonder if it will be possible to have this set up in a sort of dual boot type mode. Where there are PC issues to deal with while in PC mode, but while in phone mode, those things can be avoided. No driver updates to worry about and other things like that. Sure wish we would have something soon though. Even a Lumia refresh to hold us over or something. Thus is beyond frustrating.
  • If MS doesnt want to release another "phone" for mobile, i believe this is at least three years out to develop a revolutionary mobile device. ni the mean time, they should be getting apps on the windows 10 store through UWP so that when a phone does come out, either they can use those apps or quickly port to mobile.
  • You could get larger pockets.. May I suggest a pair of Jncos???
  • If they or will they release mobile phone device doesn't matter right now. Now only matters w10m devices gap.
  • ROFLMAO...  Samsung could make a foldable screen phone but...IT COULD TAKE A WHILE!
  • Samsungs "a while"  = 3 months Microsofts "a while" = 5-10 YEARS!
  • Love Windows Phone and I believe Microsoft will release one in It's own Surface family and hoping it will support pen..
  • dilusional!
  • People gonna be mad!
  • Microsoft WON'T release a Surface Phone and it's not your delusions that will make it happen, Jason. Let. It. Go. The fail of Continuum and now of DeX just proved that the market is NOT interested in "ultramobile PCs". And yes, if it has "telephony" in it, then it makes it a phone.
  • Why won't they? Have they officially said they won't?
  • They never officially said that Windows RT was cancelled. 
  • We're not talking about WM being canceled (which is stupid to, because Windows on mobile hardware has always been in evolution, and from what we can see it still is)... Rather we're talking about a future product, so that OLD argument is, well,,, old🙂
    We saw this gap going from WinMo to WP7, and 10 years later I'm still using Windows on a phone.. So, am I panicky about another GAP, when MOST LIKELY other evolution is coming in the future?.. No. MS hasn't said they are done with mobile.. Heck, even if they DID said they are done with WM, that still wouldn't rule out MS having plans for Windows on a pocketable device in the future... I just don't understand where y'all get this "WP is dead" business from.. I mean, if that's the case, then hasn't it been dead three times? Hasn't it always come back to life? If it keeps coming back to life then who cares if one version dies? There's another one following, so what's the point of panicking about It's death?🤔.. Lol. Like I said, there's more evidence (from the past & present) that should assure fans they will always have some version of Windows as a mobile option.....
    ......
    Now, can you agree with this? Is that logic? And, lastly, why is this "death" so final? Why is this one so significant?🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
  • Tom answered first. But I'll add: they didn't officially announce the death of ANY of their former operating systems. Not even the end of the Lumia line. They simply stopped doing them. If by now you still expect an official statement, Rod, you need to pay more attention ;P
  • Yeah, old argument, and it is irrelevant, per my reply to Tom above... Go back and read what I said to him.
    .....
    Let's play a little game... You tell me how much evidence points to Windows NOT being on a pocketable device in the future, and I'll give you all of the evidence that points to there being a Windows device in the future. Let's see who has more evidence, and more "tangible" evidence, to support their opinion... Are you ready?
  • exactly,  they never announced that 3.11 was cancelled....they just never supported it anymore that means it's alive.  I can still use it.....it's alive    3.11 forever!
  • I beg to differ.  I would love to have an ultramobile PC.  There is just nothing out there that can provide a good experience.
  • Very well. But you are ONE person. Companies don't do products based on the whims of just one person. Nor even 10 or 100. I'd love for Mercedes to re-release the 1933 W10. But it won't happen. Because there's not enough demand for it.
  • Glad you keep coming back despite your opposing opinion.😎
  • I like to read. And I like debates ;)
  • Yes you do.... Remember the age old question I used to ask you?
  • So, Dex is just released, and you already say it failed? You're as bad as the losers who say 3D is dead. I still buy 3D movies and watch my 3D TV 
  • 3D is a fad.   Just like other things like curved screen....unless you have a 300" screen curved screens do nothing but stick off your wall further.  for a curved screen to be functional it nees to curve around your periferal vision...not just in front of you...thats like reading a book that is only opened half way.   The amount of 3D content has dropped off dramatically since it's first introduction.   Why?  because after the newness wears off people realised its not that good.    So...it's really on life support.  Just because YOU use it does not mean its not a failure. And no, I am not a LOSER like you like to put it.   I go down in my screening room with 200" screen,  and NOT watch 3D because it's a terrible experience.   I leave the glasses off!   
  • Clickbait title
  • say something new
  • Clickbait comment
  • Last year my Outlook Exchange service provider stopped providing service so I had to migrate to an Office 365 Exchange account. So with this service, there are a plethora of tools that the average WP user never sees, yet WP users in the business sector do. When I play with PowerApps, SharePoint, Flow, Teams, and see what these apps can do on my 950XL... I ask myself "How the hell can MSFT give up on this sector?" "This stuff is so damn COOL!" So I'm thinking they won't give up the business sector, but I'm not 100% convinced on the "Consumer" side future. Either way, I will hold onto my 950XL until it now longer works and MSFT stops supplying "phones."
  • Well its too late for that. Creating a catagory will be the hardest job for MS. People use phones and they will not fall for a phone which is actually not a phone.
  • Hard but not impossible, Apple did it with the iPhone.
  • They didnt create a category. Nokia created the smartphones category, they improved it  
  • Or one that does not have the useability of current phones.  UWP still do not have the mobile features that current IOS/Android apps have....windows phone/mobile users rely on web browser.  That is a dumb way to use your phone and they are missing out on TONS of features that true mobile apps give.   MS is NOT making another windows driven phone.
  • Sometimes i wonder if Jason Ward is the visionary Microsoft needs :)
  • Will and i think they will are 2 completely different things ....and even if they do release it it STILL won't solve the app/developer situation
  • Well that's what windows 10 S is designed for....closing the app gap
  • True, they WoA and Android Emulation, That would bring me back in a minute.
  • Surface Phone... with lack of apps and services, especially in Eastern Europe, when we doesnt have Cortana, Groove or Movies...
  • Didn't read the article......
  • Vaporware...
  • This really is MS last chance for me...if I don't see them put everything behind the launch as in a no holds barred marketing push, then if they cant be bothered, I wont be either.
  • Great Deal...you will be waiting a very long time since they are done with the mobile space and devices.
  • By Christmas, i keep on saying it... No one will listen. I can't give up my source... But you'll see
  • how much do you want to bet?  name the number that Microsoft puts out another PHONE.  I will match your bet the opposite way!
  • Ahmadcrofton, Thought so!  You are Full of ****.   oh,  Btw everyone Jason is right....MS will put out the surface phone,  and it will be "a while"....since infinity is "a while"....he's right!    
  • See what? Tell me, you dont have to give up the source, just tell me what I can expect to see...
  • You're gonna have to be a lot more convincing if you expect people to believe you.  A few details would help.
  • I am not waiting for this mythical device. MS is force feeding us android and apple, so who knows I may actually like one of them and go all out on that OS. I barely ever use a pc anymore, so I don't really need MS any longer and their mythical device. Enjoying my X3 for as long as MS lets me.
  • How does a pocketable device not look like a phone of today? I am quite sure that Nadella and Microsoft feel that AR/VR is going to replace the smartphone. It isn't going to be pocketable because you will be wearing it. Their engineer even confirms this. https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/3/15533668/microsoft-alex-kipman-phone-a... Microsoft isn't going to make a slab of glass that fits in your pocket. That looks like a phone today. The Surface "phone" won't be pocketable.
  • You have no idea, no one outside of MS's engineers do. Just beause you can't envision something doesn't mean it's not being worked on.
  • I posted an article where a prominent Microsoft engineer directly says this. I didn't make it up, it isn't my opinion. This is directly from Nadella and an engineer. If you want my opinion, the slab of glass form factor is here to stay for at least another 5 years. It is just too good, I don't know how you make a more personal form without implanting sensors in your head. Google Glass/Hololens like devices will not replace phones for quite a while. They need to create an intuitive and fun input method for them to take off. They also need to make them compact and have great battery life. It will be a long time.
  • No, you posted an article and, per-usual, assumed it makes you opinion fact. Nothing in that article states that an AR/VR device can't be pocketable, nor does it say what the next "mobile" device will be designed to look like. I don't disagree that the next "great" thing will have a proper AR set up, but as I have said, only engineers involved with it, know what it currently, or poentially will look like.
  • Did you read the article? Alex Kipman directly says that he thinks the Hololens is going to replace the phone. That directly supports Nadella's claim that their future mobile device won't look like a phone today. Jason Ward directly quotes Nadella then completely ignores what he said and describes a phone like we have today. Would you put a Hololens in your pocket?
  • Actually the article says a device LIKE the hololens. Very important word there since that means NOT the hololense but a device that can perform the same actions. And you have no insight as to what the next one will look like.
  • A 6" phablet that folds out like glasses so you can wear it like a Hololens! Maybe that is what they meant... I am not sure how "like Hololens" turns into a contemporary phone device as described by Jason. It is hard to argue that they don't mean a Hololens like headset you wear around with you. "Like Hololens" almost demands it will be a wearable.
  • Just because you can't imagine something, doesn't mean someone else can't. Also, Jason uses the word pocketable, not contemporary. If many people can keep a 6" phone in their pocket, then a shrunken down headset (which is mearly a hypotheitical possibility and by no means what I'm saying the next device WILL be) can also be a pocketable device. Hell, you can also have a pocketable device that simply acts as an I/O for a wearable. A touchscreen keyboard/computaional add on to a pair of glasses. But, I'm not an engineer for MS, so I don't know exactly what they are working on, I can only speculate, using my imagination.
  • Google Glass fit in your pocket but I would not call it pocketable. My smartwatch fits in my pocket but I wouldn't​ call it pocketable. If they really believe the Hololens is going to replace phones, then input and interface is going to be key. Carrying around controllers and keyboards isn't going to work. It needs to be self contained, simple to use and fun. That is what phones are and anything replacing them needs to tick all the boxes. No way they create another 6" touchscreen device. That ship has sailed. I know that is what Jason and all the Windows phone fans are looking for, but they have made it quite clear they are not going in that direction. No amount of rebranding and semantics will make a Windows phone successful.
  • A) I never said google glass was pocketable
    B) everything else in your comment was arguing against hypothenticals, to show that there are in fact options, that I told you were hypotheticals, so you literally wasted your time. 
  • Google Glass is almost exactly what you described. They are wearables, not pocketables. It is a bit beyond hypothetical. One of their premier engineers said smartphones are already dead and Hololens is going to replace them. I know you guys really want to see Windows phone revived for some reason, but it just isn't happening. It is a non-starter no matter what you call it. If you were a true Microsft fan, and not just a Windows phone fan, you would be cheering them onto something new. Windows phone is a dead end under any name.
  • They could have a watch that acts as a physical controler, kind of like a track pad, paired with the Hololense type device for actions that require finer control.  Or a pen that you can use on any surface as input.  There are a ton of accessory devices that could act as inputs.  The main restriction on mobile is screen size, hololense gets away from that. 
  • Thank you for furthering my point. The possibilities are are massive for an AR device. Tons of ideas, both good and bad, exist in this category. I just hope they make good decisions. Hell, is even be happy with a small "tablet" I hold in my hand that an actual cortana hologram comes out of, even if I had to wear glasses to go with it (as long as the glasses didnt look horrible lol.)
  • Interesting thought though, if they shrink the tech in the future it could be as pocketable as a pair of regular glasses...
  • I would totally be interested in a device like that. So many things are trying to add AR, and I can't imagine getting used to owning like 5 different things with 5 different AR UI's. So it would be great to have a single one that can do multiple tasks well.
  • Clap-back of the day goes to this guy^
  • Actually, he's envisioning an AR/VR device that will replace phones as we know them.
  • So many things I absolutely agree to here. Windows as a platform growing and being successful is what matters, special if what was shown off at build is anything to go by. A new Windows mobile coming at the right time, with a fuller ecosystem supporting it is probably the right move here.. Even now, whatever apps I own on my laptop more or less work with my phone(s), and I fall into that list of people who will always need some form of PC to get work done. It is so very satisfying, having my files, notifications, apps and their related experiences being uniform. Also, with the number apps and purchases I have in the windows store, going on to another platform will probably not see as much investment in terms of app store again. Till the next phone, I'll be waiting :)
  • Wow, you found apps worth buying in the Windows store? It hasn't even proven to be worth opening for most people!
  • 90% of my installed software is store bought. The other 10% is Adobe and Office (for now). Please try to remember that your use case isn't everyones.
  • My use case? Doesn't seem to work for anyone. Windows store traffic seems to be very low! You certainly don't hear Microsoft bragging about it or giving any numbers at all.
  • You seem blinded by your own baseless assertions. I can see there is no conversation to be had here. Thank you.
  • He regularly mixes up opinion and fact.
  • I'd like to know how many people you refer to when you say the store doesn't work for them, with the context of why or why not it works for them
  • I would like to see that as well. I think Microsoft doesn't give numbers or data about this for a reason. Store engagement hasn't been very high. After using it, the quality of the apps available doesn't give me a reason to use it. Blown up phone apps with that terrible horizontal scrolling design language are a poor experience.
  • The 'most' people you mention, at least those who own a PC for their home stuff and not work, don't use the store because they only need a browser for their tasks and usually have an accompanying phone for the social stuff. You're right on that account, and then again many of those people may require legacy win32 applications for their needs, which Microsoft will try to cater to over the coming time. There is a difference between people needing the store or not and people unaware of the store or not being able to find anything on it.
    I don't see the point of your comment, how it relates to me or why there is a need to try and ridicule the Windows store.
  • Hey Jason! Remember what I told you about what's coming😉 There will be a MS mobile launch and it will be different! I'm with ya!
  • WC is doing their best to keep the conversation going and (some of us) still appreciate that...but in the absence of a straight up statement from Redmond ("People, go get yourselves an iPhone or Android device for now and come back to us in X-years, please") this is just more speculation to toss on the heap...still an interesting read on a slow Friday.
  • But this, but that, but the other, but, but, but......... I see no reason to even bother since they could not be bothered to continue on with the MS Band series of smart watches. I ended up needing to purchase something else, a Garmin Vivoactive HR, and it barely works with the Lumia 950 and the software almost always crashes with the 650. The Band 2 worked great and looked great, when it did work. Give me a good reason to even bother anymore, now that I am using Android as my main phone now?
  • you have alot of smart wearable choices using android.  have at 'er!
  • Oh please, please.... if Jason's described vaporware PC ever makes it to the light of day, please don't let the MS marketing department name it. I can just see it now: The Microsoft Windows S Ultra-Mobile PC and Phone (###insert year here###) 
  • Still delusional, I see.
  • This Jason Ward person is trying waaaaay too hard to get the paycheck with them long ass articles (including the fist "hype" comment). Besides his articles are always about something that may or may not happen and only potentials a.k.a. nothing real and just BS
  • Hahahahhaha yup pay by word lol
  • Yep.  Just lots of words, speculation, and a rehash of earlier blogs.  Then he immediately posts a comment to explain what he just wrote.  WindowsCentral has become a sad place.  I love my Windows phone but I don't see a reason to keep coming here.
  • Fake news man ahhhhhhhhhh.
  • It's not news... It's his point of view... EDITORIAL!
  • Thanks for the latte Kenneth
  • You know, I'm ok with it taking a while. I hope, emphasis on hope, that something like 10S will help in some small way to lessen the app gap, and potentially make it easier to transition into Windows (what ever they will call it for mobile). I swtiched to Android, and I simply hate it. I want in the worst way to go back to Windows Mobile, but I am somewhat stuck for now with what I have. 
  • If this cellular-enabled pocket-able device does not completely replace the phone--meaning one does not have to carry both this device and another device--then it will fail immediately.
  • Obviously
  • Ultramobile PC seems to be good category! I like that term.
  • Honesty don't see how you still have a job here. Long winded drivel everytime. I'll remember to go back to skipping your "articles".
  • ppl now openhis articles and jump off to comments section with popcorn
  • Then dont read it if it's got too many words for you and shut the **** up 🙂
  • Is it this easy for you to insult people face to face also?
  • This is off topic I suppose.  One thing that gets me when people are crying about wanting a new model already is, why would you want to buy a new phone every year?  I have my X3 and love it.  If Microsoft decided to make a mobile device every 2 years, I would love that.  You see everyone flipping out for the iPhone or Galaxy, and in most ways, they only make a new model every 2 years. In between they take the same stuff, slightly faster proc and everyone freaks out at how amazing it is, (marketing does wonders) but if they took the 2 years to fully work on an upgrade it could be so much more.  If MS decided to make another mobile device, waiting 2 years to show off what they have been working on is completely acceptable in my opinion.  Look at when they surprised everyone with the original Surface, they took the time to work on it, without letting everyone know what they were really working on, then they released it. it changed the computing device world we are in today, 2 in 1's are everywhere. I am just as frustrated to not hear a thing about the future of W10 Mobile, but, maybe they are doing the same thing, talking around the subject and then they launch the 'game changing' device that makes everyone notice.  Let's hope :) Anyways, that is my little input, lol  
  • It's not about a new phone being available so the same people can buy it every year (like the apple folks), it's about having an offering that's new for every one who is ready. If you couldn't buy a new phone till next year and I couldn't by one until 2 years from now, releasing a new phone every year makes sure that you and I both have a brand new option (instead of me being stuck having to buy a 1-2 year old phone)
  • Let's hope.  I guess we have to give ourselves hope, cause they sure ain't giving us any.
  • I don't even read Jason's articles anymore, I just  go straight to the comments section to read all the people lampooning his ridiculous speculations. They are way more entertaining than his articles.
  • Microsoft will loose any mobile war with this long term strategy. I love my 950 xl and w10m, but in the near future there will be no user base or anyone willing to have a Windows pocket device. Not everyone wants a PC in their pockets, most of the users just wanna a smartphone that is just that, a smartphone. Microsoft should have the two solutions, pokect pc for the pro user and high-end smartphone for the rest. UWP only makes sense with a mobile for consumers and without that developers hardly will make any effort in dropping an app.
  • Very true...they did after all do smart phones and feature phones...maybe do ultraportable pc and smartphone
  • I agree with you..All these are nice for someone who wants a 7" mini tablet with a cellular option. Me i just want a phone 5" with windows
  • Agreed! UWP I think has failed. They tried but nothing and very few have come. Just because they're changing names to Windows S 10 is not gonna help. This type of OS seems to depend on apps apps apps and there is the problem. I held onto hope for two years but zippo has come to pass.
  • I generally agree with your articles, but in light of some recent news, I need to ask: what do you make of the removal of the phone call API from Windows 10 in build 16193? Will this ultramobile PC not support phone calls in the traditional sense or do you think this removal is temporary for some reason?
  • oh no, now u ll see him write an article abt how phone calls are dead.
  • I believe he said in the article he believes it's temporary
  • I did the transition to Android while we wait for the next Windows Phone. I must say, the transition was a bit difficult. But the nice thing is Microsoft did some nice apps for Android. And I can see that Facebook, Twitter and even Windows Central get more updates on Android than Windows phone. That's a bit strange that Windows Central is not regulary updated as fast as the Android version on Windows Phone. I do miss the nice integration we have for the cloud on Windows Phone. I know that the 950xl I still keep for backup is aging but, on the S8, the apps are more fluid and more fun to use on Android than on the 950xl. So, I woudn't mind if Microsoft would port Windows 10 on the S8. But will sure go back on the next Win10 phone. 
  • For starters, Facebook on Win Mobile doesn't get any updates whatsoever. I think it was updated like once, back in like Q2 2016.
  • The app situation on Windows 10 Mobile is a complete joke. I'm leaving for android too i can't deal with no updates for facebook for me that's the last straw
  • If the surface phone is not a phone, then I won't need it. I guarantee you that Microsoft is unable to create the ultimate phone if it is not able to create a normal phone that sells profitable to an acceptable %-tage of the world population. Microsoft is creating a lot of hype but clearly lost either its feet on the ground or have become extremely arrogant. It seems Microsoft has landed in cloud kukuland these days. Mandela is a strategy guy, but is not the leader Microsoft needs because he does not understand what it takes to deliver products people will buy in the current market. I have read your article and am slowly getting fed up with these fluffy stories. A company who cannot clearly articulate its strategy and deliver upon it, is a bad company. And clearly, Microsoft is going into this direction and keeps on frustrating loyal customers. From a loyal Microsoft customer who owns a Nokia 1520 and a Lumia 950xl...     
  • I can't find much to disagree with there (although I think you meant Nadella instead of Mandela).  The idea that whatever MS builds won't looke like phones do now means really nothing.  Let's face it, phones haven't changed all that much, other than going from physical buttons to virtual ones and minor choices like folding versus not folding.  Bottom line, in order to be usable as a phone they'll have to be an easily-handled form factor that can be placed to your face.  Just like relatively few people use bluetooth earpieces, you're not going to see massive acceptance of some sort of VR/MR/AR interface for phone use.
  • Exactly. Who on earth is waiting for VR or MR? Answer: NOBODY really, except some gaming communities and professional businesses that would benefit from such technologies. But it will be very far from mass retail... MS would benefit more if they would bring out Cortana in Dutch, Japanese, Hungarian, Russian... Just an example. Do well what MS has. WM10 is becoming really great. Bring out the bloody phone. Bring out 10 types and create an ecosystem. Show commitment to your partners.    Instead of these fluffy stories and lack of communication.
  • Very well said. I agree. It is super frustrating to have to keep guessing/speculating what the hell MS is doing. At least Jason takes on that burden for us, and I typically feel a little more at ease after reading his articles because they're logical and extend beyond just the emotional frustration I have; they shed light on what's going on. I just wish MS could tell us their damn selves with certainty what the hell they plan to do and when, but they're whole strategy as of late has been to keep stuff secret until it's nearly ready.
  • Just being the devil's advocate, what if Microsoft made a 2 in 1 that had Windows 10 desktop and a dumb phone functionality in 1 device, that's it a 20 year old dumb/feature phone app that can make phone calls and send SMS messages, you have a SIM card but you don't have Windows Mobile on it. But on the other side, you can connect your phone to mini HDMI port to a monitor and also have a microUSB port would that count as a 2 in 1?
  • Except, it's now being reported that all the telephony APIs have been removed from the latest PC build.  So, unless something is in the works to replace them, I think we can count out a phone-like device.
  • Been saying this since they stopped making the 950xl.   over a year ago.  MS is done with phones/phone/mobile OS.  They know they screwed up royally.  If they wre still interested they would not have shitcanned the entire mobile divison.  Its simple.  NO WINDOWS PHONE COMING.  to bad fanboys are too blind or stupid to realize this.
  • So? if Windows Mobile failed and Microsoft isn't investing a penny in further development what if they do the opposite. Add dumb phone functionality to Windows 10 desktop so you can make phone calls and send SMS messages. You still wouldn't have Whatsapp since that is not available on Windows 10 desktop but that would be a perfect device which I would compromise my smartphone apps to get desktop apps. 
  • What would be the point of that...the entire thing with mobile phones is being mobile.  Making life easier while mobile, doing things while mobile.  Not being tethered to other devices like headsets, keyboards and monitors.  The windows phone / mobile/ windows on deivces smaller than 7"/ windows arm/etc...whatever they are calling it this week....does not understand.  fanboys are so blind they dont see the forest for the trees!
  • Microsoft will release a Surface Phone...eventually. That was never in doubt. The problem is that it's taking them way too damn long. They need to do it now, while there is still so much interest in Surface line of devices. The problem is that Samsung will most likely beat them to the market with a foldable PC/phone hybrid device and if that happens, surface phone might as well not come out.
  • As Jason once said bots are future, would it be simple to write a Jason bot? all u hv to do is feed his old articles, throw in some ai and you'll keep getting these articles. Or wait has he done that already? :P
  • Clearly, you would struggle to write the grammatical portion of the bot...
  • nope. there are many bots already out there offering contenting wrting/rewriting etc http://tinysubversions.com/contentForever/ http://www.drassignment.com/auto-writer.html
  • Lol you would also clearly struggle to write the code that comprehends what was said to it and crafting an appropriate response. I said you would struggle to write the grammatical portion of the bots, not that such bots cant exist...geez..
  • Well the fortune 500 companies wouldn't agree with you for whom I develop enterprise applications. I dont need your approval on what I can do. Lol for the WSheep.
  • Doesn't matter if they do or don't. Their hardware and OS isn't what will make or break them, it's the pathetic lack of support from developers for apps. I used Windows phones since their first inception, long before iPhones came around. I switched to an iPhone 4 when they were released, but returned to Windows phones when the Lumia Icon came out. I loved that phone, still think it's the best piece of phone hardware I've ever had. But I switched back to an iPhone when the 6s came out, because it didn't matter how much I loved my Icon if I couldn't use it for anything more than email, texting, and talking. EVERY SINGLE BIT of home automation I have supported IOS and the android OS, but not a SINGLE ONE had an app for Windows Phone... So no light control, no access to my security cameras, garage door opener, etc... Loved the hardware, but sorry, I can't buy anything MS puts out for phones when not a single one of the programs I use multiple times every day would work on the platform...
  • I have Muzzley and Insteon on my Windows Phone 950XL, but yeah, you are right about the HA apps. Its depressing. 
  • Sorry, couldn't get past the first few sentences, the title read like some amazing news but then it just turns out to be yet another crazy long opinion piece. Getting really bored of these!! Should be moved to some sort of blog instead of a 'news' feed.
  • I think it bears pointing out that some folks have noticed that the phone APIs have been REMOVED from the latest PC build.  This tells me that either something new will be replacing those APIs, or they are NOT going to be doing telephony in Windows 10 much longer.
  • That sort of thing happens in release builds.  Folks like to hype it up though.
  • I like you, Jason. You're a positive writer and your articles are enjoyable to read. That said, I kinda wish Windows Central would chill out with the carrot-dangling for a while. Every year you guys speculate about the Surface Phone, and every year you postpone it until next year. Last autumn for example, you were dead certain that Microsoft would hold a huge spring hardware event around March or April, and that we'd see the Surface Phone in 2017. It's getting annoying, and frankly I don't think you guys know any more about the subject than your readers at this point. For all we know, a Surface Mobile device could be announced in Shanghai next week. Or never.
  • whish i could give this a 1000 thumbs up. you've summarised this subject matter perfectly. i actually uninstalled windows central from my phone because im sick of reading this stuff - or anything to do with it. cheers drew.
  • Honestly, I'm starting to lose interest. I understand they don't want to release just another phone, but showing their fanbase some appreciation with a new flagship device would be great. I'd settle for a 950 with a spec bump and different shell material. Doesn't have to be anything groundbreaking for now.
  • Yup.  Just throw us a bone please.  As annoying as the app gap is, I'd still rather use Windows over Android or (puke) iOS.  If only they'd put in a little effort over there in Redmond.  Super frustrating.  Almost makes me wish Steve Balmer was still in charge.  We'd probably still have Windows phones and a respectable 5% market share.
  • The good thing about them taking a while is that it's helping me save money.  I'm perfectly okay with using my 950 as long as there's no itch to upgrade.
  • In have a feeling you'll have the opportunity to save your money for a very long time.
  • The article is an opinion, or more like a speculation. Next time please include that in the title, because this is extremely misleading.   Especially in the light of all the articles about telephony having been removed in the latest build. Unless it's being replaced with something, I wouldn't put my money on any surface phone. It's been nothing more but rumours so far, so I'm not gonna treat it as anything more than a rumour.
  • You may want to include looking at the author of the article while skimming through the article list. All (Most?) Jason Ward articles are editorials.
  • Jason Ward is the best! The only optomistic fellow at the WC in regards to Windows on Mobile! We need an ultimate compact business machine! The longer the wait, the more spectacular the device will have to be to win people over and many back. My Christmas wish: a folding Surface Phone with Pen capabilities running full Windows 10! (Add holographic projection)
  • In the latest build (pc) there is no API more for phone calls. Together with other API-s were pulled back. And these are the latest builds toward creators 2 and toward Windows on ARM. So there are more and more signs that predicting something else....
  • Could've been removed temporarily nothing is permanent in preview builds
  • What the hell is it supposed to mean when we keep hearing "but it won't be a phone". Nobody is going to carry around two pocket sized devices. There are only so many shapes out there...  Here's a novel idea. Why not take some of your vast cash reserves and pay developers to develop for Windows Phone. Buy name brand apps and stop development for Android like Google did when they bought apps that once lived on the Windows Phone... I think what's clear is that Nadella isn't looking to make enemies. He'd rather sacrifice his own brand and his own customers to satisfy the Android and iOS users  
  • Or just stop charging 30% of developers earnings first
  • Of course they will release a Surface Phone in due time. I'm guessing late next year which sucks! But my Lumia 950XL & HP ELITE X3 are doing just fine for now.
  • What do you mean by "pocketable"? I have a 1520 that's been performing beautifully and without any flaws at all.It's a great phone and I'll keep until it drops dead. To me it's the ultimate smartphone, and it came from Nokia, not Microsoft. It's true that the latest updates somehow have deleted some apps, probably because they were not supported any more, but nothing I can't live without. I have Office, Adobe and a few other productivity apps and that's all I need. If MS releases a 7-inch pocketable device, or whatever they call it, I'm not sure I'd get one. If by pocketable they mean that it can be carried in my briefcase, I already have a Surface and I'm hapy with it.
  • Could you guys please stop writing these fairytales? The same story again and again. What's the sense? Write about it when Microsoft introduces one. Is this web site becoming a rumor site?
  • My worry is that, if they do, it will be after, ahem!, others have done the same approach already.
  • I'm glad they are taking their time.... they know all eyes will be judging them heavily on this next device after failing in mobile before... so this is their one big change to change that perception.  I would rather they do it right, and properly re-invent the category like they did with SP, SB and SS. :)... but this is even bigger because it heavily relies on the software, the form-factor, and support form devs... so it'll be very interesting how this plays out.  I originally thought it'll be this Fall (along with SP5/SB2), but I'm guessing it'll be early 2018 instead.  Which would explain why they are doing a refreshed SP4 at a small event instead of a new SP5.
  • Thanks for the pep talk. Badly needed a dose of hope. It's frustrating to see how MS seems to have abandoned the mobile phone space and it's users. I will hold on to my Lumia 950 XL as long as possible, until the new device comes out. I did that with my Lumia 920 until the 950 became available (gave the older phone to my teenage son who us still using it). I love the Windows interface and can't stand the dull, drab android or iOS GUIs.
  • like when you think about it
    1) Windows 10 S can help in the app gap
    2) Mixed reality on not high end devices means in future the hardware of Windows Mobile can run the same virtual reality experience just like a desktop's
    3) the only one remain is consumer trust, all those years has decreased the consumer trust making people less likely to return to WP even with no app gap
  • You can call it a Surface phone or a telephony-enabled ultramobile PC or whatever else strikes your imagination but if it has a screen size over 6-inches it won’t be in my pocket functioning as a cell phone.  I consider the 950XL to be about the upper limit in size for a cell phone. That’s one of the reasons I never considered a 1520 as a viable option.
  • yes it will be like band1 and band2 (i owned two of each) it will break after 6 months and MS will loose interest in it. Lost all faith in hardware made by MS (and yes I was also so ... to buy all kinds of Lumias).
  • oh god, please dont let microsoft cramp a fully loaded os on a phone and risk another pocket pc. i already have a pc and i need a phone. i dont want a compromised experience of a phone marred by aspirations of having a pc in your pocket. pc is an established formfactor. smartphone is also an established form factor, lets keep it that way. let the convergence happen via cloud through bots, apps and whatever comes next. 
  • All Surface, no depth.
  • I just think B.S. whenever MS mobile is mentioned now days.
  • I've been all in on MS hardware since Windows Phone 7 and I'm simply tired of their crap now.  I have a nice new Fitbit charge 2 as of a couple of weeks ago and I'll be swapping out my Lumia 950 for an Android in the next few weeks.  Whilst they may come back with something in a year or two, I'll be invested into Android by then and no doubt I'll be lured in by googles services as well. I really don't like Microsofts chances or luring me back, especially when I distrust that they'll display anything more than a half hearted push for a device if it ever comes leaving it dead in the water. For a company that seemingly understood the need for bridges, it mind numbingly dumb what they've done to their mobile play in destroying any bridge to the future. That not only goes for their own hardware but also for seemingly how they've happily pushed their Partners like HP/Alcatel etc under the proverdial bus.  Microsoft is transitioning to Cloud and that comes as no surprise given the CEO they have/chose. As they say, "when you're a hammer everything looks like a nail" and  Satya is simply pivoting MS to what he's experienced in.    
  • Good one!
  • Bigfoot and Elvis will arrive on the Whitehouse lawn in a spaceship before a Surface Phone is released to the public. They'll have all the apps in hand that will make Surface Phone great again.
  • Agreed with this editorial, Surface phone should not be rushed into market as Samsung did with deX Station for Galaxy S8. Windows ARM should be my next phone
  • Or maybe DeX is the indicator, along with how no one is flocking to Continum, that the consumer isn't interested in that capability. It is WAY COOL (barrowing emphasis from Jason) technology but is it something that people want?  MSFT seems to think so.  Consumers might not think so.  The ONLY way they will be successful is if this is something that the ENTERPRISE wants.  MSFT doesn't get the consumer.
  • I would like Microsoft to launch Windows ARM on a phone as they did with Continuum dock for Lumia 950, HP Elite X3, since this time it will be useful for my Pro activities, I do agree with you that normal consumers wont like this feature, this should be a niche device like the Surface Book
  • I don't know why anti-microsoft types hang around in these comment sections other than to spread FUD.   Jason's analysis of MS' future vision brings together all the clues he's seen that point to a clear future to not only him but to others as well. MS removing the mobile API from a dev build points to nothing as they can easily put it back in whenever they like. MS' steps seem to be pointing to a Cortana powered device that can have multiple form factors to suit the users computing needs. That device doesn't need apps as bots will replace them and perform more of the tasks that we ask apps to do. Everyone that comments here should have already seen MS' Future Vision Videos (augmented reality, mobile devices with just an earpiece, bots fetching data from various sources, etc.) It's all there... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6cNdhOKwi0
  • I'm not an anti-microsoft type. I had an HTC HD7, a Nokia 800, a Nokia 920, a Nokia 1520, a Nokia 930, a Lumia 950XL, a Lumia 950 Dual SIM and finally an HP Elite x3 before I got wise and accepted that MS have given up on mobile handsets. Any Surface Phone is likely to run Android. Admit it. We all need to stop reading this delusional bullshit and just get over it.
  • The sad thing is that if you look at the mobile wars. it will remind you (with different players) of the early days of the PC.  Back then, Apple claimed that they had the best hardware and OS -- and it was 'cool', but felt satisfied that the developers and applications would come because of that.  As is was a business world, IBM and Microsoft blew them out in the 80s and 90s because Microsoft really interacted well with the developers and user base.  Along comes mobile, and Microsoft puts out (especially with Windows 10, and I think that 8 was far better than android at the time or even ios now) a better product and expected the corporate world and developers to catch on to that and carry the day.  Apple and android moved from corporate to everyday consumer and stole the show.  And, sadly, for the most part -- it isn't even apps for productivity that has cost them the market, it is $%#!! games.  Maybe that is why I still use Windows phone -- if I wanted a device to play games I would buy a device for games, maybe a gameboy???
  • ha!  Try being an Amiga fan in the USA after 1992.
  • Microsoft was arrogant and thought developers would support them no matter what. They didn't put the effort or thought needed into Windows phone. They did the bare minimum and acted entitled. In very few ways was Windows phones superior to their competition. You don't get crushed that hard when you have a competitive product.
  • I see it more that Microsoft will partner with Samsung, and make a highly modified Android. Samsung is in high competition against Google. It only makes sense to me. Windows 10 Mobile GUI is excellent. As for us users, it would mean the same experience, but the core will be Android, meaning full Android app support, PLUS UWP app support. Same GUI as Windows 10 Mobile, and greater integration with Windows.eco-system. It just makes sense. It would solve:
    -> App issue
    -> Accessories issue
    -> Consumer Marketing issue that the company faces thanks to Samsung knowledge
    -> Carrier dealing issues thanks to Samsung experience, and branding power
    -> Car integration issue It will bring the best of both worlds together to make this 'ultimate phone'. Microsoft cut dev cost, and Samsung has a more compelling and unique product over the competition and Google. In addition, this custom Android from Microsoft is back with Microsoft knowledge in delivering updates, and has the infrastructure, to ensure that all devices are safe and secure and has the latest features as they managed to do with Windows 10 Mobile, and by-pass carriers blocking updates. What's not to like? It will be a game changer, I believe. And when the article "Surface phone" device will be ready, then it will take off as its own device.
  • Why would Samsung want to do that? It would benefit no one but Microsoft and it would barely benefit Microsoft. Why develop for UWP and a single device when you can develop for all of Android? Samsung isn't in competition​ with Google. Samsung sells hardware and Google sells ads. They are partners and Samsung wouldn't be where they are today without Google. Unlike Nokia, they backed the right horse.
  • Ah, but you see that was the case, not anymore. Here is a very intresting video on the subject of Samsung and Google: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_L9j6mDJBg Samsung is also stared to develop its own phone OS, called Tizen. And Samsung has always push Android with unique features to be different than the competition, and Google plays catchup (remember that Google now makes and sales its own phone), like side-by-side apps, and now Samsung made their own Continium with the help of Microsoft called DeX, and notice how it's not Android on a big screen, it is it's own desktop, with a task bar and everything. Google will soon follow. And that is aside of everything else mentioned in the video and what I mentioned in my post.   Also, this video is very intresting on raising a very good point on how Microsoft can penetrate the mobile market: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N80hzTpglQ
  • All the Android manufacturers add their own features. That is the whole point of Android being open source. Unlike Windows, it puts the power in the manufacturer's​ hands. Google has made phones for years. They are not widely sold and are basically reference devices to showcase new Android features. The Pixel went a bit beyond that, but still wasn't pushed that hard. Microsoft only helped them by making some apps for it. Samsung was probably leveraging Android Freeform to create DeX. It was a desktop interface Google added to Marshmallow. Google empowers manufacturers, they do not stifle them. That is probably​ the biggest reason Android blew up and Windows phones flopped.
  • Hmm yea, I guess you are right. Well, I don't see any other way for Microsoft to penetrate. I mean Microsoft can't be left out of the mobile space, especially that it isnt' the only place that Microsft is loosing its "OS grip". I mean here is a very intresting article by Ars: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/05/microsofts-renewe... The comments supports Ars report as well. Microsoft can't continue to lose. I doubt that a "Surface Phone" device will gain much traction. Maybe regain 10% market share after 1-2 years, thanks to the push on the enterprise segment, but then what? You need a device that is "100x better", I mean, a device that is so great that peopelwill go to the trouble of switching from Google ecosystem to Microsoft.
  • Microsoft barely broke 3% after years of pushing along with Nokia with $30 phones. No way they would ever come close to 10% selling a high end flagship without years of slow building and absolutely perfect hardware and software. The iPhone barely has 10%!
  • Hey Jason,
    Hope all is well with the family.
    Just read the article (I never miss one) and all I can say is this patient and unstressed old man sometimes wonder why you even bother? lol
    Just kidding. It's a passion and I even share a bit of overlap with ya.
    Someday, as the miniaturization of the whole world (that I grew up in) continues, there is SURE to be a handheld device that does much more than the current hand held devices do.
    To imagine something the size of my current 950XL doing everything it now does AND what my Surface Pro 4 can is NOT science fiction.
    Not sure why folks are so skeptical of that fact. :)
    Cheers!
  • Thanks snakebitten.🙂 Hope you are doing well as well! Yeah I think its clear we are headed technologically. It won't happen over night but I think it WILL happen😉 Also my family is well, as a matter of fact we have another little one on the way!😀
  • As long as it's all that, runs full Windows and has amazing cameras, front and rear, and revolutionary camera software sign me up. Signed... Hanging in there with Lumia 950xl.
  • Excellent article, once again, Jason Ward is the best journalist on Windows 10, Surface and UWP.
  • And Howard Hughes' Spruce Goose actually did fly.  But it was only 70 feet in the air and for about a mile.  All for $23M (over $200M in today's $) MSFT WILL (I love how Jason put that in CAPS) build a mobile device but if MSFT behaves as it has to date, it will be the Spruce Goose of the mobile community.  I'll prognosticate just like Jason did so here is what I'm saying: Someone in MSFT is pissed that someone else at MSFT is "getting credit" for the KIN debacle.  Given how MSFT loves to screw up consumer focused projects, that person is hoping for the "Spruce Goose" award at MSFT and overtake the KIN.  MSFT WILL release a Surface Phone but no MSFT software will run on it because MSFT only has IOS and Android versions of their software and they haven't gotten around to developing the UWP programs that the new MSFT device WILL require. The article sounds good, it makes sense but it probably either won't happen or MSFT will have shennaniganed themselves out of being taken seriously.
  • oops read wrong
  • Is Microsoft the "new sexy company"?
  • If Microsoft just left Nokia alone after purchasing them....
  • They would have continued to lose money selling low end devices in poor numbers?
  • This. No Lumia phone has ever been profitable, you can look that up.
  • great asrticle as usual. I don't see a windows phone making any impact not now when developers are leaving the platform. I think a while is already here and already too long, I cant recommend windows mobile and as a consequence I have moved my family away from windows product, 2 ipad airs, 1 ipad pro 12.9 inch, 2 MacBook pros and 6 s7 and edges this year and all because microsoft stoped supporting their own software and their own products. I don't find it acceptable that the 930 didn't get the creator update and it sonly 3 years old, I don't find that its acceptable when gestures mobile a miv=crosoft app is not intergrated or supported by microsoft, hell even s7 edge cant use groove casue it doesn't read my sd card and none of my family or friends with ipads can use groove. Soz but I don't see a world where microsoft can catch up now. ignored too long has = paypla, ebay myfitness pal leaving. And theres no wireless pay that works in shopes now, no bank app like it has been for years and many other important apps. If microsoft wants people to use microsoft products on android and iPhone they need to make them and make them good, something they have not done with groove. I cant even get a photo app or a calender app separated for my android phone so I could link and us it with my pc, microsfts statagy is not looking good.
  • 2018 isn't too soon, it is too late, with the speed of tech change it shouldn't be a hardware problem.... But is it an ecosystem readiness problem? (uwp)
  • 2018? It took them 2 years to develop a thin & light laptop... 2018? Try 2020 at the earliest and even that's probably not realistic.
  • Jason, this is great news! Goodbye Lumia, welcome Surface Phone! Can't wait to get my hands on it.
  • They will be void of skin, muscle and blood before your hands get on one....I.E.  you will be dead!  I would not get my hopes up.
  • 2040 Jason Ward: As I've said back in 2018....
  • 2040 Jason Ward also still waiting for Surface Phone 😂
  • After being so investing into another ecosystem like Android or IOS, why go to Microsoft? The longer it takes for this shift to happen, the less likely people will leave.
  • Because, why pay for a second device if a pc / tablet already has the capacity.
  • FACEPALM.
  • Tbh I think that all windows devices will have telephone capability, so long as they have a microphone and speakers, you could argue with skype they already do, but the cyber sim could just be a downloaded app and enable devices to call using mobile data connection.
  • I think we all get it and all have our opinions, good or bad, that we probably have stated in earlier pieces that have been written. This is exhausting. No matter what the opinion... This editorial is old. Not only old and rehashed, but almost inviting the type of comments it continually gets. I don't know if this is the purpose of rewriting it so many times but it actually saddens me to see it pop up again as a relevant piece.
  • A company in and of itself is not that much of an advantage over another provided they both have plenty of money. But the CEO or the leadership can be a real advantage. I really believe that Nadela is a much better CEO than Tim Cook. I think Steve Jobs is probably better CEO than both of them, but Jobs is dead. I think Tim Cook is in way over his head and is not a visionary like Jobs. Cook needs to step down from Apple before it's too late. He doesn't know what he's doing and it shows. Seriously enough is enough, Apple is ******* up and it's time for someone who knows what they're doing.
  • Interesting - First starts out by saying MS is going to eventually release a Surface phone, then ends by saying MS is not really doing a phone, they will do a pocketable device that also makes calls. Also, most people here miss the long term part of the article. If all the pieces talked about need to be in place before such a device is ready I doubt anything will be available before 2019 - and that is an early estimate.
  • Already Lenovo and others are in the process of adding real 4 /5/G phone dialing capability to their next tablet products. In my opinion a long overdue feature. So won't all this wishful thinking 😔 be for nothing ?
    The reality seems to be just a continuation of current Microsoft agenda which is the cloud ☁ based computer products for enterprise customers. Just why Microsoft is producing laptops which compete against the few remaining OEM using Windows 10, defies belief.
  • Customer: I'm looking for a new smartphone. I have money to spend MS:Well! We have this new device category, it's a telephony enabled ultra mobile PC you might enjoy? It has system-wide inking and UWP win32 apps. It has...CONTINUUM!!! It comes in all the same colours as the iPhone.  Customer: I don't know what that even means. I'll take an iPhone thanks.  MS: Great. It's not selling so well, and we'll probably stop supporting it in a year or two, so every customer we don't sell one to, we actually make less of a loss on! Joke's on you @$$hole.  
  • RIP Cerulean Moment
    https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/cerulean-moment-smartphone-for-window...
  • Yes, nice to see absolutely no comment on the failure of that ridiculous idea.
  • I guess greg and his "team" are back to the garage now to come up with some other get rich quick scam.   I called them getting 40k hell,  they never even broke 30k.   I guess I am better than I thought at this prediction thing.   As I said before,  their website looks like it was developed by a 5 year old in arts and crafts time.  They took a 2 year old phone,  painted on their logo and called it the most disruptive device in mobile computing.....They must have went to TRUMP UNIVERSITY marketing program.   
  • Like I never called that when the FIRST article was posted!  its not rocket surgery!
  • If they plan on doing surface type phone, they better get to it.. I can see apple 🍎 releasing a I-ultra pocketable mac with telephony before MS announces Surface phone. MS will be on losing end again.. Hope not
  • Hey everyone! Can you guys help support the Windows Community on Spotify by upvoting here? Thanks! https://community.spotify.com/t5/Live-Ideas/Windows-Phone-Add-support-fo...
  • What I see is a massive attempt to build UWPs (full uwps), via windows s, and windows on arm. If MSFT can build an ecosystem over time with both the power software of the PC, and the mobility software of the smartphone, the it will have the highest quality software ecosystem. Of course phones will be around for awhile (before they get replaced with AR telephony devices), but until the next paradigm hits, they'll be increasingly less profitable. Other thing I can see them investing in is VR - because just like TV streaming, people will want the full experience in this paradigm, and that means - pc and console, not phone. VR is great news for a desktop and console dominant platform. While google or apple could easily win the smarthome or AI wars, google has no shot at VR. Apple might have some, but they'd be on the backfoot with such little presence in gaming. Thats a cashcow, and mindshare MSFT has a good shot at. Something that I bet makes google a bit unhappy. This I/O they tried to frame their next VR effort as better because it required no PC. Something I think will be a pretty darn hard sell once people actually try various forms of VR :P But the very fact they placed that emphasis, shows weakness. 
  • People will really enjoy wearing goggles on their heads to make phone calls, that will definitely be the next big thing.
  • Ha ha.   For sure.   And barking orders via bots .....no thanks.  
  • This will never happen. By this point, Microsoft surely knows they completely missed the mobile train. The public did not want Windows on a phone. So the idea of "hey, let's give them even MORE Windows on a phone" is absurd. Saying that an "ultimate mobile device" in 2020 needs to be running Win32 apps is crazy. We already have ultimate mobile devices, and they are not running - and indeed have no need to be running - desktop Windows. The whole idea is so 2005. You might as well expect Apple to bring OS X and desktop apps to phones. Why would they do such a thing? Who is demanding that? Why didn't Google just bring desktop Linux and desktop apps to phones? What would be the point of that? Let's face it, Microsoft is not in the mobile driver's seat. In fact, they are barely in the passenger seat. I'm sure that to them, this idea of Windows Everywhere makes perfect sense. The problem is, it is 10 years too late. Consumers don't want it and even worse, developers no longer want to waste time on it.
  • Thats cool, I can wait for Surface. I have $280 saved so far. Take as long as you like, Microsoft.  MY 950XL is still working fine. Continuum Rules!  Although the camera has been acting up a bit lately. I have to use the front facing screen for distance, so, lots of selfies. lol My advice to others. Get rid of every Windows phone you have and lets consolidate on the 950, the HP Elite X3, and for your wife, if she doesnt need Continuum,  a $50 Lumia 650.  
  • I love how every windows mobile user praises the feature that makes the phone NOT mobile.   Love it.  Why have a phone when all you can do is tether it to a monitor?
  • Mike,  FYI Continuum does NOT rule,  it's a gimped desktop space with lack of real power,  or anything remotely akin to a real desktop.  I would rather just plug my laptop into a docking station.  At least you get real processing and computing power instead of a gimpped up laughing stock.
  • "I'm sure we'll make more phones...." But when ? Until every Windows Phone fan left ?
  • I would suggest 2020? Whilst Windows On Arm might run by early 2018 but I can't see it being a polished experience. Of course an early release would mean reviews of glitches a bad reception and a consequent price drop. yah. As my family migrate to Android though I doubt i will still be interested by then. sent from my Lumia 2520, running the original and smooth Windows On Arm - Windows RT.
  • I've officially moved on. As of this week, I'm back on android full time after 5 years with windows phone. It was a great ride, full of ups and downs, its just a shame that its been 100% down in the last 12 months. Android is a much better operating system now than it was when I left it all those years ago. It really isn't that bad folks, this Moto G5+ has been way more stable and snappier than my 950/650 ever were. My advice to everyone is to stop waiting for Microsoft to bring out the "Surface Phone". You may be waiting a long time for something that never materialises.
  • Aye, the Android life is so good. It's like being single again after the nightmare of a girlfriend you had for the past year.
    Liberating. 🤗
  • same with the iphone life spazz....using windows mobile for a couple of years,  then moving on is like being in prision,  then being released into the general population again with a new lease on life.  
  • The increase in functionality was definitely eye opening.
  • Agreed.   Having actual mobile apps that do things while being mobile is a great feature for a mobile device instead of hokey ****** continuum.    Plus using your browser instead of a mobile app is just stupid.  
  • I hate that ridiculous CEO. It s a complete DORK!
  • "The Surface phone won't be a phone. It'll be a telephony-enabled ultramobile PC that showcases the range and power of Windows 10 on a pocketable device." 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
  • Sounds great. Though, it also sounds like having a cheap flip phone along with whatever MS comes up with, if you talk on the telephone regularly and like doing so easily and clearly, might be a good idea. As it is today, Phone and People seems designed by developers who never experienced normal and frequent phone use and have no idea what a real phone book is.
  • It is fun to speculate. But if everything the author thinks of becomes reality, Microsoft will release a device that competes against it's other devices rather than the competition and also it would land in an environment without a significant developer support. Shure, you could plug in adapters and displays and run iTunes with a mouse, but on the go you don't have all the features than the competition has *now*. Even the fanciest hardware without mobile software can not succeed. If Microsoft truly plans to release such a device in the future, they need to have something in between *now*, to keep the user base and developer support alive. And because they don't have a current strategy, I sadly believe, that this speculative Surface Mobile doesn't exist.
  • MS has tested and verified the concept of using a "stylus" (or "pen" as it's called) to create in Windows, and soon to fully navigate the OS. They have standardized biometric recognition tech. They are redoing their UI/UX from scratch (imagine Client Design on CShell for mobile!). Validating all sorts of computing scenarios and tools that seamlessly agree with ultra-mobile use. Pushing Cortana skills. Yeah, I think they're going to do several types of ultra-mobile devices including the handheld "Surface Phone" or "Surface Note" or "Surface Mini"; a wrist device - reimagined Band (with biometric authentication) running; and maybe an dual wireless earpiece kinda device (and coordinate with OEMs on the same). The sky really is the limit. And these will all talk to one another and handoff tasks. They won't be traditional. They will have the power of Windows, and they will connect your services and data to you continually and contextually.
  • If Windows phone would get to anywhere near double digit market share, and my carrier would start stocking nice phones I would come back. I like the os better than Android but I'm not going to deal with it unless they are serious this time.
  • I assumed this was an opinion piece from the start. Positive (hopeful) speculation about a future Windows "mobile pc" is interesting to me, and one of the main reasons I enjoy reading Windows Central. Getting too serious about whether or not this article is "click bait" is kind of off the point, in my view. All headlines should encourage clicking. That's their job. I read Windows Central and similar techie web sites mostly to find product how-to information, discuss rumors about future products, and read your and give my opinions about which future features or products seem to make the most sense. Let's have fun on this web site and leave most of the negative stuff to "real" news sites.
  • Well said
  • Based on the recent moves (Windows on ARM, CShell, trying to stay relevant in the mobile space by frequent update of apps in iOS & Android), I believe Microsoft is still trying hard to re-enter the smartphone market. A surface phone will become real only if there exists good conditions - quality apps in UWP, success of Win10S and hence the education market... There are still lots of uncertainties that prevent Surface Phone from happening...
  • Perhaps if a picture of Jason was used for the article instead of Nadella? The use of Nadella's image makes it look as though the 'quote' is from him, not Jase.
  • Nadella destroyed everything Windows Phone; and if ever Microsoft releases something mobile again nobody will give two ***** about it; This whole Windows Phone era which concluded with the Nadella disaster has achieved one thing and that is that it turned a metric **** ton of Microsoft fans against Microsoft for perhaps a lifetime. So job well done Nadella, as if Microsoft was not already in a deep hole with the whole PC gaming community after the GFWL debacle; now you have single handedly managed to alienate another huge segment of your customers.      
  • A year late and a dollar short. I waited two years for a definite defined direction for Windows Phone and it just hasn't happened. If however, they do show something in 3 days at the China hardware event then I'll come back. I've been using my little Alcatel idol 3 pro for the past month and am enjoying my experience. Yes I miss and really like WP more but due to the uncertainty I've decided to jump ship.
  • The problem with your Windows On ARM phone hopes is that Microsoft recently removed all phone features and API's from future Windows 10 builds which means WoA won't have any telephony features.
  • And they emptied the recycle bin so they can never get them back. Unless you know some good file recovery software?
  • Hate it that they pulled out already!
  • pulled out already?  they been in the mobile game since 1999.   If they can't figure it out by now....They should not bother.  From what we are seeing,  that is exactly what is happening.  HP and alcatel were probably given major incentives to even use the failing OS.  They are now being sold off at discounts just to deplete stock.  No new mobile windows OS'ed devices are in development.  DONE.   NO surface phone,  no magical savouir of the windows mobile ecosostem is coming.    
  • ".... Skype calls and Skype/SMS messaging is an easier sale than a seven-inch smartphone." A small Tablet with Skype...Surface Phone?    
  • The ship has sailed for MS in the mobile hardware space, if they would have had the foresight and adjusted their plans accordingly they wouldn't be in the shape they are. Even as I type this on an Idol 4s, the upcoming Oneplus 5 is on my radar. So much promise wasted on lackluster hardware, two software resets, and barely there marketing. The only thing MS makes worth spending money on is the Xbox.
  • Please stop this nonsense with "MS will launch a computer with attached telephony". Every smartphone is a computer with attached telephony. Every smartphone has the same components that a computer has: motherboard, processor, GPU, RAM, harddrive, input/output devices etc. Playing with words doesn't change reality: MS is lost, it's doomed, it has no visionary management whatsoever. They had a chance in 2007 to make a knock-off of iphone (every successful product they ever made was a knock-off of someone else's products (Windows, IE, Office, MS SQL, C#, Zune, XBox etc etc)) and they laughed it off like idiots. Have they left Skype alone it would have been today the Whatsapp of the mobile world and maybe more. Where is it now? Have they left Nokia to make Android phones it would have been in the market today. Let's not forget that before MS came like a knight to "save" it, Nokia was a stronger competitor than Samsung in global markets. It was still number 1 in the markets at that point in time even if it was losing marketshare. To take a company from no 1 to nothing.. that's a fit only MS can pull. Remember how they wanted to buy Yahoo for 47 billion $? What saved them was that some (wise) shareholders did not approve the deal. And then they bought Linkedin for 26 billion $. Yep, wise investment. Around 2020 they'll have another write-off to make. Try to explain that. Pretty sure some people will get pissed off and maybe get tired of their blunders. So they first tax their few developers who tried to publish in their app store 30% off of the few bucks they would make and drive them away and then throw out the window 26 billion, money more than enough to literally buy all the apps for that damn app store and make your platform work. But no, let the important things die away and throw money on boondoggles. "Microsoft will take a break and then will come back with a game changer". Oh boy! Really? :) Does anyone imagine Apple and Google will just sit there waiting for MS to come to senses?? What company of the three came up with something really inovative during last 20 years? Ipod, iphone, google search engine, google's business model in itself is inovative and took markets by surprise. So who's in a better position to come with a great product again? I really wouldn't want to have Nadella's headaches right now. Without the mobile there is no UWP, there is no Microsoft in 10 years. Simple as that.
  • Microsoft didn't lose the smart phone game, we did. People were lazy and just jumped on board the pirate ship. Now we're stuck with 1984, (Google /Android or Apple slaves. I'm hopeful for a "perfect storm" where Apple keeps giving us small upgrades and taking away more options and Google/Android make mistakes because they believe or got too fat and lazy to see the possibility of smaller devices doing more and costing less. The war is not over and never will be. It's the nature of the beast. To quote Neil Young, rust never sleeps.
  • Sorry,  MICROSOFT are to blame.   I am not a slave to either android or apple...You are the one who is a slave to microsoft by the sounds of it.  
  • MSFT has made many missteps, but saying they're lost is simply irresponsible rhetoric.  Last time I checked they are still the #3 Company in the world with regards to profit. Sure, Alphabet (Google) and Apple are #1, and #2, respectfully, but obviously MSFT is doing something right.  Have you seen the iPod Pro?  Looks a lot like a Surface Pro doesn't it?  Why do you think Apple chose to manufacture their newest iPod after a lost company? MSFT is second only to Amazon in Cloud computing. Say what you want about Skype on a private consumer level, but on an enterprise level it is still the most used form of video teleconferencing.  Doesn't seem like a lost cause to me.  Who else besides Sony is challenging MSFT in gaming?  Project Scorpion looks to take gaming/entertainment to another level.  Why not just give up?   Again, there is a lot of things that we can look at and from Vista, to Zune, to Windows 8 on everything, to the Nokia aquisition. As easy as we can look at shortfalls, we can also look at the restructure. Windows 7, and Windows 10.  Xbox One started on a bad note, but is now neck and neck with PS4 sales.  MSFT isn't going away, considering their stock is at all time highs, it looks like they know exactly where they are and need to go, although it may take them a while to get there.
  • Hi Sergiu: I hear your point on what a computer is a is not. A calculator is also a computer when the term broadly applied. I have in mind what is categorically understood by the market and consumers as a PC and what is categorically understood by the market as a smartphone. There are two distinct categories these devices belong to and a marketed, and for which consumers seek when they desire a device with particular functionality fo a particular purpose. When they want PC functions, they don't go to ATT they go to where they can find an assortment of PCs. When they want a device with telephony they seek a smartphones and go to ATT, Verizon etc. Now no other competitor has a universal platform for app development and user experience. There is a difference between a and a PC smartphone categorically. A Surface Pro is a PC. A Lumia is a smartphone. Shrink a Surface Pro down and keep all it's power and give it a unique design add telephony, it's still a PC. It's not a smartphone. Now MS route back into mobile can't be from an angle that directly "assaults" the smartphone space. But how about offering a PC, that does what people expect from a PC, (Via an HP Lap Dock like peripheral) but when not docked within that station it has the added plus for that buyer of also being able to a phone via eSIM. They may not move to that over thier iPhone or Android, but perhaps it will be their backup phone. If MS and OEM partners populate the market with this category of device while MD works unprecedentedly hard at building it's ecosystem and bridging the app gap, and promoting AI and bots, then this category. I dont think there are any guarantees of success, nor do I think this is there only option. But I think thier approach will be from a position of strength for them, PC-based. Also I agree Google and Apple are not just going to sit around. I hope no one does thinks that. That's why I also wrote this: "Smartphones are dead: How Microsoft, Apple and Google are preparing for the shift" http://m.windowscentral.com/smartphones-are-dead-part-iii-how-microsoft-... Thanks for jumping in.
  • Jason the Japanese did it a long time ago. They first made a smaller radio, then smaller cars. They made crap for years and Can still remember when Made in Japan wasn't a good thing, (how times have changed) Samsung and LG made the worst devices but they were cheap. You make a phone, PC, camera that's small and cheap and also break away from overly lame and greedy cell phone providers and all without a dongle, you could have something there. Devices that work for you and work anywhere all the time. Options, that's what we need and Apple and Google are trying to take that/those away from us. The only thing that stays the same in life is changes. It you wait long enough things will change.
  • Yes I read the entire article of reposted old articles.  By the time that MS introduces its ultra mobile device, the Android and iOS mobile phone ecosystem will have had a five or more year stronghold on the market.  MS seams to think that by making their ecosystem (Continuum, UWP, cloud, gaming, MR) available to the largest market share while ignoring their own platform, they can ensure that the whole world will come drewling at their feet with this mind numbingly incredible new piece of world class changing hardware.  The truth is that not everybody needs or wants an all in one ultra mobile piece of hardware.  I have no need nor desire for Continuum, gaming or mixed reality.  And when every new update comes with new and even more problematic bugs, the idea of WAAS is no service at all but a very huge dis-service.  After the Creator's update, I now have to restart my computer daily just to get pages to load in MS Edge; that's after a complete clean install.  What I see is a company that's drowning in complete incompetence.  If MS wants to be able to compete in the mobile market, then they need to give their supporters a platform that at least provides the same capabilities than their competitors.  What I'm looking for is a phone with biometrics, wireless charging, NFC wallet capabilities.  You can keep the rest of the Continuum, gaming and MR crap to yourselves.
  • The part "but it could take awhile" simply means between now and 5 or 10yrs. By that time a bump in the curve will happen that reinvigorates the current definition of the smartphone while Microsoft will simply wait for the actual bend, regardless of how long it takes.
  • And it will be buggy ! ;)
  • I don't know why everyone keeps complaining that their Windows 10 phones are full of bugs and having to constantly reboot. I am using a Lumia 640. I hardly have any issues with it. It's my daily driver. I find it easier to use than my Galaxy S7 and much better battery life.
  • Lots of folk are complaining that the beta software that they are trying out on their phones isn't as stable as released versions. Go figure....
  • I don't either Ray, my L650 has just gotten better and better. All I can think of is trolls will be trolls.
  • FYI Bebochek...NOT everyone that has negative things to say about windows mobile are "Trolls" as you like to call them.  They are people who used the platforms and saw its many short comings.  Since you are one to never leave the house,  using a web browser,  and continuum are perfectly fine features for a "mobile device" for you.  However,  ALOT of us are travelling and moving around ALOT....therefore windows 10 mobile offers NOTHING for functionality compared to the other major players...i.e.  Android and IOS.  Please think before fingers type please. thanks.
  • Well I am always in, still got time to upgrade my 950, finger crossed.
  • Who is Microsoft actually going to be selling these handsets to? What is the actual market demographic for a phone that can be docked and used as a PC? This isn't sarcasm, it's an actual serious question. Is this a consumer product or a business product, is it aimed at people who want bigger phones or smaller computers? Will this replace a laptop or a tablet, or a desktop, or all of the above? I've known my fair share of business users and they were always hankering after larger phone or smaller (lighter) laptops. At the end of the day they found that large phones were too big to carry and too small to perform most business tasks, and that the lighter laptops were underpowered, and were no replacement for bulkier more powerful systems. Until such a time as a phone can have the computing power of a medium range laptop I honestly don't know what you'd do with a dockable phone.
  • There are some last minute news about a secret "Project Andromeda" for Surface Phone. It's really coming... https://www.windowsblogitalia.com/2017/05/project-andromeda-surface-phone/
  • The "but it might take a while" part is why I left Microsoft for Android for the meantime. I don't like guessing games as a consumer and the fact that Microsoft hasn't explicitly confirmed anything is why I had to let Windows Phone go(although I still have a very well working Lumia 1020) until something is OFFICIAL. WHEN Microsoft actually announces and makes a Surface Phone and not another carrier forsaken ATT exclusive, I'll be first in line to pick one up. Other than that, I'm good over in the Android camp enjoying new hardware that actually materializes and that I actually known is coming to market. Not blaming you Jason. This is all Microsoft's fault and it started with the cancellation of the McLaren. And with the market share being as low, almost nonexistent as it is, I don't see how time is on their side to sit around and delay any further excitement for the platform. That's just not the way you reward your consumers.
  • They are in the phone business now with office 365 Skype for business. A full pbx system with auto attendant and at a very competitive price. Any device can be your "phone".
  • But any device cannot replace your mobile phone.  
  • I dont know. Android now got 2 billion users. So the strategy might be to get some Microsoft apps on that platform. But I guess we will see what happends.
  • John,  have you been living under a rock?  All microsoft apps are available on android right now...even more than are available on windows 10 moible.   
  • The ONLY way a true Pocket PC will ever be viable will be in a form that docks into more capable hardware. A desktop dock that connects to a real desktop GPU and storage for home and a lap dock that turns the phone into a laptop with a huge battery. The only evolution beyond that will be the future tech with the holograms and the like. I wont buy a surface phone after years of being treated as second fiddle by one of the biggest companies in the world. I've owned a phone from every iteration of Windows Phone from the HD7 and Radar, then a 920 into a 1520, then a 950XL, which is my daily-driver. Every step of the way I have experienced roadblocks caused primarily by Microsoft not throwing their full weight behind developing the OS faster. They constantly promise backwards compatibility between new OS revisions and constantly break those promises. Most recently that promise was broken with the Creators Update. I guess it's just too hard to be honest with your customers. Microsoft's approach to having a walled garden with open hardware has been nothing short of disaster. They should have clearly delineated which hardware would most likely not receive OS updates and which would so that consumers would not be so harshly burned by their promises. This is the main reason why people call WM/WP a beta OS. There is no inherent benefit to the ecosystem and it's been that way since the first WP hit shelves. All of us Windows Mobile users just have to sit around and wait for Microsoft to make OUR flagships so obsolete that we can't use the features coming in the fall, forcing us to upgrade to the next lemon. Anyways, I'll catch yall around after my phone comes back from Resuming... the Start Screen. -_-
  • Microsoft thoroughly bungled mobile. UWP hasn't gone anywhere. Windows 10 adoption is less than predicted, etc. As a software company they have been busy trying to get their cloud based Office product onto as many devices as possible. 10S is a hail mary attempt to re-kickstart the "Store" in order to achieve some of the closed market success that Apple and the Android platforms enjoy. We'll see how things go when and if Microsoft can gain any market share with a WOA "mobile-ish" product, if said product were to come to fruition. 
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  • To the author of the article (not sure why my post appears into some other discussion): There is no room for a third mobile OS. That has been clear for a while. If you think anyone is going to ditch his Android/iOS phone (which nowadays cannot be replaced as it manages our entire life through payment systems, mobile services etc.) just for the pleasure of having Continuum, you are really optimistic. Ergonomics: if you want to be productive (i.e. work) on a device you need a good keyboard and mouse and a screen big enough, and you need this to be compact and mobile. No cables, dongles, wireless keyboards. This simple fact kills the idea of the "PC in a smartphone". Surface Laptop is the epitome of this obvious conclusion.
  • Hi gilezz what is obvious are the investments Microsoft is making that point to the conclusion of a non-phone device with telephony that I have laid out. Now the rest of the media is catching up to the analysis I've been laying out for months.
  • I am getting tired of being told that Microsoft will release some kinda of fantasic surface phone that will do everything, it'll change the world, and somehow turn things around. The number of people that want a phone that runs desktop apps is a very small percentage of the population. What we do want are fast, powerfull phones that keep up with the latest from Apple and Samsung. And of course, we want apps. We want the same apps that you can get on Android and iOS. I have suggestions on how to get this done, but no one from Microsoft is paying attention. We all know they abandoned us years ago.
  • Peter,  Agreed.   I think the amount of people who want a phone that runs desktop programs are able to be counted on one hand.  They all reside here,  and live in their parents basement.   I want a phone to be mobile.  NOT to be tied to a deskop setup.  The desktop apps that everyone here is yammering about do NOT work in a mobile environment.  They work in a static environment.  The two do not intertwine.  So all the fanboys here screaming about Continuum and win32 on a phone?  why?   it makes it less useful than the windows 10 platform already is.    A windows phone with all the functionality of my iphone might get people to buy,  but im not sure anymore.  it's just to big a gap.
  • Hints in Fall Creator Update: New Device: RS3: bool StartUI::PlatformCapability::IsAndromedaPlatform() checks HKLM\Software\Microsoft\CoreShell\Composer\DefaultClassId == "Andromeda" https://mobile.twitter.com/h0x0d/status/865492892734730241?ref_src=twsrc... With 2 hinges and acceleraters (foldable?) https://mobile.twitter.com/h0x0d/status/865413437551067137?ref_src=twsrc...
  • Yep.  Definitely a foundation for testing grounds there.
  • Double post
  • Sorry, no offense Jason, but writing a piece about how Microsoft may one day release a Surface device with telephony, but not anytime in the near future, basically tells me nothing.  It's the epitome of click bait with nothing to say in the main article.   I can also say that 'Someday, BMW will release flying cars----but not anytime soon'. Yay! I'm a tech blog writer too!
  • Hi Johnny actually it's not clickbait at all. The article is meant to offer readers a perspective on Microsoft's mobile strategy that takes into account the current investments that they are obviously focusing on in "plain sight" which are part of the big picture contributors to their mobile strategy. The investments Microsoft is making now system-wide inking, CShell, Project Centennial, Continuum and more will cumulatively comprise Nadella's ultimate mobile device - or what we call Surface 'phone'. This piece was designed to help users look at the pieces to the puzzle. Now your analogy about BMW someday releasing a flying car, but not anytime soon and then sayin "Yay! I'm a tech blog writer too!" is an attempt at snark but not analogous to what I've written at all😉 If you supported that statement by directing readers attention to investments BMW is making in the components that contribute to a flying car then you might have something. If you said the reason you believe BMW is going to release a flying car because of thier investments in producing a lighter material for thier vehicles chasis, an in dash system that provides verticle and horizontal perception, hiring of individuals with arial backgrounds, and other related investments then your analogy would have been more congruous to what I wrote. But you didn't do that, you oversimplified.😉
  • Doesn't matter what they make, I likely won't touch it.  My experience with my Lumia 950 and Windows 10 in general, has soured me on Microsoft altogether.  I will never buy another Windows mobile device, I'm taking Surface Pro off my replacement tablet list, and I'd be hard pressed to ever buy another Windows 10 PC.  They're ironically "phoning it in" on all of their efforts on their own OS, and making better apps for iOS and Android.  They might as well just reclass themselves as an app developer.  Ballmer wasn't perfect, but he would've never allowed better apps on competing hardware. #FireNadella
  • Microsoft could release a phone today, if it ran android, they have the know how, there os sucks.Nokia would be still Nokia and windows os would be a viable os to ios and android except for the fact the Microsoft is bipolar/ schizophrenic  when it comes to the mobile strategy, , ios has been ios since its start and has grown, android has been android since its start, windows mobile has changed and rebooted probably 7 time since its start. Major changes like windows ce, and app types, if you would have written an app for windows mobile you would have had to rewrite several times since then, till now. Everyone want to blame Samsung, Google etc but Microsoft has changed so much they don't even use their own phones anymore. Windows right now could run android apps and that would solve the app gap, but they are so schizophrenic that by the time you install all your apps and got it work and your finally happy they change their minds again, scrap it and start over. Again their could be a surface phone today, and a galaxy s8 windows version but even Microsoft is afraid that Microsoft will change it mind again, That's the only reason their not Surface phone
  • Don't blame Nadella for MS losing in mobile. Remember back to when Ballmer bought Nokia, it nearly ended his relationship with Gates, who hated the move. So Ballmer resigned shortly thereafter, and the MS board started looking for a new visionary CEO. Who was in the running? Elop, former CEO of Nokia, and Nadella, an Azure/cloud guy. The board could've gone Elop, and all in on mobile phones, or gone Nadella, and steered away from phones to go all in on cloud computing. The board of directors of MS chose Nadella. I think they gave the Nokia experiment a year to win or lose, and all involved knew it, so they put out every phone they could think up: bottom feeders, mid range, and top of the line. The year was up, and the experiment failed (also due to the fact that MS didn't go all in on the phones with developer supplements, MSGarage apps, app exclusivity, etc). They wrote off the purchase (for even more than they paid), let go 99% of the former Nokia employees, and started entrenching.
    ITMT they did go all in on the cloud, and now are challenging even Amazon for business server services - and are making money at it. So don't blame Nadella for doing what the board hired him to do, and what he's good at. He was never a phone guy, and they didn't want him to be. Ballmer's vision was rejected, he left, and phones got no further support. MS has now steered away from offering its own phones to supporting what's out there that they can make money on (iOS and Android). A Surface mobile super-device won't compete with phones, and won't bring us WP-users back to the good ol days. It'll be a computer that does business software and also makes calls, but won't replace your iPhone or Android, because MS hasn't *just* given up on smart phones - they gave up years ago when they hired Nadella.
  • indeed. however I think they will regret this move. it strips them from many possibilities that eg. google has which allows them to incorporate their features more directly leading to greater adoption since they are in charge of the OS.
  • I think MSFT is doing well by walking away from mobile right now.  Asides from a few minor places in the world, mobile market is saturated. Even Apple and Samsung are posting lower volume sales.  Putting millions, if not billions, into a market that is saturated, and make people change manufacturer, is something that can be nearly impossible to do right now.  Also, people still have a sour mouth from WP7, WP8, and even WP10 mobile. The best thing they can do is erase their existence from the mobile world for a couple of years to allow people to forget.  Then create a product that either is an entirely new system (people are already getting a little tired of phones as there is no new innovation), or to a specific market sector.  The business sector is not a bad idea.