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This is what has to happen first in order for a Surface phone to succeed

Though it has never been explicitly confirmed, Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella's "device beyond the curve in mobile" and "ultimate mobile device" statements suggest that a post-smartphone category-defining Surface is coming. Chief Marketing Officer, Chris Capossela, recently alluded to the same.

My own predictions of a category-defining ultramobile Surface date back to January 2015; and Windows 10 on ARM and the potential of Win32 apps joining Universal Apps via the Centennial Bridge on a post-smartphone device seem to be moving us toward that vision.

Of course, the success of that vision relies heavily on other factors.

The Surface phone will launch when its ready.

Just as the Surface family and HoloLens remained secrets until they were ready, the same holds true for what many are calling a Surface phone. Redmond has stressed the device must be unique and category-defining before it launches.

Beyond the engineering required to develop unique hardware that we presume will be context-conforming like that of the rest of the Surface family there are other things that must be in place to prepare for the Surface "phone."

A plan for recovery and success

My ongoing analysis of Microsoft's mobile strategy has highlighted Redmond's self-inflicted harm such as a late reentry into the mobile space, poor marketing and limited distribution in addition to external factors. But Microsoft must have a position in mobile to succeed. And they know it.

The Surface phone has never been Microsoft's sole hope for mobile.

The Surface phone has never been Microsoft's sole hope for its mobile strategy. Though I'm a die-hard Windows phone fan, I've stressed the role of the ecosystem and even conceded that:

In the two years since, time and technology have brought my prediction of a cellular-capable Surface PC, the reimagining of the "smartphone," closer to reality. Still, the success of that vision rests precariously on the future of Microsoft's App Bridges, AI and bots investments, manufacturer partnerships, the UWP and Microsoft's biggest differentiator: Continuum.

Microsoft must succeed in various areas of its ecosystem investments on which the mobile strategy depends if the Surface phone is to succeed.

Putting all their ducks in a row

Microsoft's initial steps toward recovery involved retrenching its mobile efforts. Nadella's focus during this period was: "to grow and create a vibrant Windows ecosystem that includes our first-party device family."

Though the company no longer makes Lumia smartphones, an ultramobile Surface, as a first-party device, will fit in that strategy. For the ultramobile Surface to succeed Microsoft's investment's in the following areas of their ecosystem must also succeed.

Apps

Though my Gartner-confirmed prediction suggests apps will decline in usage, they still have a place. Microsoft currently has the Westminster (Web), IslandWood (iOS) and Centennial (Win32) app Bridges in place to bring more apps to the Universal Windows Platform. With Windows on ARM, I expect a big push of Centennial and hope for a greater push of the other Bridges as we move into 2017.

AI and Bots

Microsoft's Conversation as a platform strategy positions AI and bots as the next evolution of apps toward an intelligent app ecosystem. Redmond has also democratized Cortana and has over 40,000 developers as part of its Bot's Framework.

Partnerships

Manufacturer partnerships are critical to Microsoft's ecosystem strategy. The initial retrenching and the more controversial exit of first-party hardware allows partners like HP, Alcatel and others to fill the space that was previously dominated by Lumias.

Furthermore, the IDC reported: "…1Q16 also saw the introduction of detachable tablets from traditional "mobile first" vendors like Samsung and Huawei."

I presented an analysis on traditional PC makers and mobile-first vendors crossing over into common territory:

The ability of these manufactures to adapt their device portfolios from a "PC to mobile" or "mobile to PC" category indicates a capability of manufacturing a device that represents a confluence of both.…I foresee a personal computing landscape where Microsoft's efforts to bring the phone and PC together ultimately cause mobile-first and PC manufacturers to compete in the same space.

Microsoft's cellular PC strategy presents the ideal platform for the realization of this vision.

The UWP

Microsoft's UWP is vital to its mobile strategy in that Windows is Windows on all devices be they PC's, 2-in-1s, HoloLens or some as yet unintroduced devices. As Microsoft introduces new features like those coming in Redstone 3 the OS that will power the anticipated Surface phone is being continually improved.

Mindshare

Redmond needs current and potential smartphone users to recognize that the company has a play in the cellular-connected world of mobile computing. Windows 10 on ARM and the potential deluge of cellular PCs OEM partners will bring to the market will be poised to do just that beginning late 2017.

Celluar PCs may be just the forerunner the Surface phone needs.

These cellular PCs may be just the precursor to market the Surface phone needs. As a new type of always-connected Windows PC they will help pave a path, in the collective minds of the industry, for Microsoft's mobile strategy of an ultramobile Surface that will run legacy and Modern apps and become a PC via Microsoft's key differentiator: Continuum.

Carriers

Finally, Microsoft must nurture relationships with carriers as they are the primary device distribution channels to consumers.

Surface phone cometh

As Microsoft prepares for what is presumed to be a 2018 launch of the Surface phone I foresee 2017 being a runway where Redmond greatly ramps up efforts in building its ecosystem.

I anticipate a much stronger push of all of the App Bridges, but notably Centennial as they prepare to bring Win32 apps to ARM.

I expect an increased push of its AI and bots initiative, an aggressive refining of Windows 10, further revelations of Microsoft's strategy to provide cellular connectivity, renewed efforts to build relationships with carriers and deeper relationships with OEM partners which will include marketing.

It will be the confluence of success in these areas throughout 2017 that will be the foundation for the innovative hardware Devices Chief Panos Panay and team will bring to the table as a category-defining ultramobile Surface in 2018. That is, if we're are not surprised with something this year of course.

Will Microsoft's multifaceted ecosystem-building plan work? Time will tell.

Following the Story

  • Windows phone isn't dead
  • Smartphones are dead
  • The untold app gap story
  • AIs, Bots and Canvases
  • Microsoft and the duo user
  • Windows Mobile and the enterprise
  • The Surface Phone

Jason L Ward is a columnist at Windows Central. He provides unique big picture analysis of the complex world of Microsoft. Jason takes the small clues and gives you an insightful big picture perspective through storytelling that you won't find *anywhere* else. Seriously, this dude thinks outside the box. Follow him on Twitter at @JLTechWord. He's doing the "write" thing!

259 Comments
  • Thanks for reading folks! Most of us a excited about the prospect of a Surface phone and I am confident given Panos' history with the design, attention to detail and success of the Surface line that an ultramobile Surface will not fall short in regards to HW design, creativity and unique category defining position. Still as my ongoing analysis as seen in my various series such as: "Windows phone isn't dead", "Smartphones are dead", "The Untold App gap Story", "AI, Bots and Canvases" and others, I've detailed Microsoft's strategy to nurture it's ecosystem, address its app woes and position for a new intelligent app paradigm, shift the Mobile app story from an iterative HW focus to a more comprehensive context conforming personal computing device and more to address the surrounding factors that are necessary to be in place for the Surface phone to succeed. As a student who is failing a class, but wishes to succeed, solicits the help of a tutor, schedules strict study times and withdraws from certain social activities to first recover and to then succeed, Microsoft has committed to a similar recovery-to-success strategy. It is worth looking at all the Microsoft is doing collectively to see how it is working together toward their personal computing, Unified platform and Mobile visions. Thier plan is multifaceted and is challenged on many fronts, but it is necessary. Will it work. Time will tell...in the meantime...LET'S TALK!!!
  • Let me make it short here... Someone wake up Mr. Satya Nadella!!!! End of story - half the problems will solve by itself... After he took over, everything improved except W10M.
    .
    Now, the new ARM strategy - we can only wait and watch what happens. When UWP arrived, we had high hopes but nothing much happened. It's better to act blind for a few months, understand what they are gonna do and then think where to go next.
    To be absolutely honest, IF the current W10M fails then I don't know how I'm ever gonna use a phone again! I absolutely can't use Android and iOS. Just fed up of those. ​
    "Mobile first-cloud first"... He knew Mobile is absolutely important, then WHY did they retrench (hate that word by now) in the first place ?!?!? They should have continued with the 10% market share in Europe, 5-6% share in India and Brazil and the small 3% over the world and pushed more then. By now, with a stable and working OS, things would have been better...
     
    "Windows 10 on ARM and the potential deluge of cellular PC OEM partners will bring to the market will be poised to do just that beginning late 2017.".... I really really really hope this happens.
  • I was trying out my aunt's Alcatel Idol 4 for a few minutes over the weekend.  I felt so lost trying to navigate it.  Just wow.
  • Actually, navigating Windows 10 Mobile is the easiest of all OS's. It's the best phone UI out there. They just didn't push the Mobile side enough.
  • but on devices  like the Lumia 950-950XL  the OS moves slowy like if already were on beta stage, apps  opens  in 7-10 seconds when should open instantaneusly without delays,  also  for windows mobile  suceed , should  be apps there,  of renamed  developers like google, etc etc ,  after all an smartphone is  an mini computer of hand  so the apps has an important protagonism , have an Xiaomi MI4C with the same  processor of the Lumia 950 and the difference in stability and  speed  in open apps like facebook and instagram is big, in fact the lumia 950xl feels like  cheap in terms of performance and OS  that  is glitchy , Android has matured and is not the  old glitchy and slow  OS that in the past was, now is Windows Mobile which feels like Android 2.3 or 4  slow and glitchy.   also i have to remark Alcatel,Blu, and others OEMS that are making phones with windows mobile are not present in south america , just in north america with such poor logistic and  sale  way, is not way that windows mobile  gets into blue numbers  and the  surface phone  also  
  • That's not Windows's fault. My Lumia 950 works very smoothly since several updates ago. It's just that either Facebook is terrible at making apps or they lied when they said they were "all-in" on Windows and just converted their iOS apps and then didn't bother to do any sort of optimisations. I'm guessing a bit of both, Messenger is by far the worst app I have on my phone and I never bothered to update the old Facebook app to the new one, simply because all I can suffer to use either of them for (old and new) is to sync my contacts.
  • Yes, the Facebook and messenger apps on Mobile are just plain bad. On PC they are good however.
  • >They just didn't push the Mobile side enough. that is a understatement....More like AT ALL. (well in the last 3-4 years)
  • I should have mentioned I was trying out the Alcatel Idol 4, the Android version, so weird.
  • Too late now !!! Haha.
  • Obvious troll, haha.
  • I wasn't trolling.  I did neglect to mention the Alcatel Idol I was trying out was the Android version.  Android is so weird.
  • The Android version of the Idol 4S has really poor specs compared to the Windows version. It's a great phone though.
  • There's a better way and the way everyone else is used to doing it. Hands down the W10M UI is superior: It is the better way.
  • I was trying out the Android version of the Alcatel Idol.  Android is weird.
  • totally agree with you,i myself want to know WHY WHY WHY did they retrench in the first place, i have close pals in Brazil,Europe & India that were forced to switch platforms because of that crazy decision,die hard fans don't want Surface phone, die hard fans want missing apps to be on platform with uwp and updating old apps to uwp. So called surface phone will come whenever it's ready but won't change things if there's not needed uwps.
  • Too late for a change now. Only a new product can do something.
    .
    Btw, i saw your Focussing issue video in the 950XL. My issue is worse than the one you showed. :(
    .
    Edit - New product along with something that really changes mobile computing and I think ARM is just the beginning. The OS needs to be as flawless as possible at launch (with the new phone).
  • new product won't do much without apps,even Facebook Inc. not working on messenger and their app to work faster
  • because Microsoft have nothing to offer , have no devices actually and their OS feels like beta already and  been almost 3 years since the first release to today, that is why microsoft have rettrenched , also the rates of adoption of windows mobile and phone are so  bad that they were losing money so decided to go to an "safe" niche as the business area, but looks like also have not been sucessful in that , , is not reason to an business to move from an Iphone or an Android high end to an glitchy Lumia 950 series  when the same enterprises has their corporative apps on Android and IOS by years
  • Exactly this. Microsoft had the lead over iPhone in many European markets, they had a solid following in many developing markets like India, they had all the Nokia talent, innovation, engineering and factories to support all this, but instead of going full steam ahead, Nadella fired all the Nokia people, sold all the Nokia factories and other assests, shut down all Windows Phone innovation, destroyed the established Lumia brand, lost all Windows Phone developers who could not jump faster from the sinking ship; and now what.....he pretty much ****** Microsoft as far an Mobile is concerned. Nokia is now back in the smartphone market, with Android, so everyone who was still holding onto an old Lumia device is gone there. Apple's iPhone and Android device competition is stronger then ever. Nothing will change with Windows 10 on ARM or any PC in a Phone form factor, in a years time. What Microsoft fails to realise is that mainstream off-the-street people don't want a phone to replace their PC, as most non-tech people view the PC as a neccessary evil they have to use at work and don't even know how to properly use outside of lauching few programs and apps. They are not interested in a Windows PC phone that can do what their PC does, and replaces their belowed iPhone or Android device with countless useless apps that they have grown so acustomed to. Bottom line is you are lying to yourself if you think Microsoft is all of a sudden going to rise to a worthy smarthone/mobile competitor. The fact that Microsoft pissed of a huge portion of WP8.1 users by not upgrading their device to win10 afer they promissed to do so definitely did not help, as you are unlikely to even get those people back. At this point Microsoft might as well give up in the smarthone market, and rather focus on areas they might still salvage something like the PC gaming market, which is another great example of lost opportunities with the rise of Steam and demise of GFWL, and soon demise of Windows game store, if nothing changes fast.  
  • Many of your points are bang on. But just shift to Android one sec. There are many Android users who still aren't on Marshmellow my friend. Nougat is another sad story with number of phones upgraded. So that way, older WP8.1's not getting W10M is understandable but MSFT completely screwing with the fans by NOT pushing ahead with great new hardware and SOFTWARE THAT WORKED AT LAUNCH is the "real" issue.
    .
    Also that word - ugh - Retrenching. Someone remove it from all dictionaries please. SMH.
  • Yeah, it would be understandable and I would have no complaints, if it was not for the fact that Microsoft promissed on stage that all WP8.1 devices will get W10M, that was a major selling point that noone will get left behind. They never should have made that promise if they could not deliver on it. With Android at least people go in expecting not to get OS updates with most devices.
  • Andromeda is coming.  It will combine the power of Android with the invisible updates of ChromeOS.  It will run on ARM and x86.  It will support multiple users and Windowed apps.  And it will have apps. And it will be here in about 12 months. That is MS' window.  If they don't get out in front of Andromeda, which probably means at least a half year's head start, they will not only remain dead, but there will be no way back for them, in mobile.  That means it's Surface Phone in 6 months, or never. Since the Surface Phone will not be here in six months -- or there would be leaks about it already -- that means never.
  • Andromeda is going no where. It won't.
  • Both Android (the most widely-used operating system ever made) and ChromeOS will become Andromeda.  Alphabet may just call it "Android Popsicle" or whatever, but that guarantees that not only will it go somewhere it will, almost without a doubt, be the most popular OS of all time.
  • Check your facts. That's history already.
  • Marshmallow and Windows 10 came out at about the same time and although Windows 10 was readily available for free on the majority of Windows machines, they have similar adoption rates.
  • in fact before Nokia released their own apps that at least made worthwhile a bit have an windows phone without any app, now  all the development is going to IOS/Android , have they  even removed the apps like Nokia refocus or panorama without even have any replacement, or going too late into  add an repaced app like was on the case of panorama mode 
  • Except that all apps that runs on Android 4.1-2 runs the same way as those running on 7.1 updates are for fanboys but the functionalities are the same that's why it's never an issue with that. But i know skype for windows 8 is being pulled off
  • What Microsoft fails to realise is that mainstream off-the-street people don't want a phone to replace their PC, as most non-tech people view the PC as a neccessary evil they have to use at work and don't even know how to properly use outside of lauching few programs and apps. They are not interested in a Windows PC phone that can do what their PC does, and replaces their belowed iPhone or Android device with countless useless apps that they have grown so acustomed to.
    This fact is lost on most Microsoft fans who visit sites like this, and on the writers of such artilcles like this who constantly churn out what amount to fables telling other fans how things will be fine and Microsoft  has a "vision". They never seem to ask if anyone outside of the Microsoft fan club is going to come along for the ride and everything is basically just being said in one big echo chamber over and over.
  • Exactly.. Nadella is so business focussed that he's totally lost the plot for us plain consumers. I don't care about running Win32 apps on my damn phone. I want Facebook, Bank apps, Lifestyle apps and all that... Hence my Lumia 950XL will be my last Windows Mobile phone, unless something drastically changes.
  • yeah 
  • Yeah.... banks, companies I work with or work for, government departments, friends, all tell me to download this app or that app. The problem is none of them are available on my windows phone :(
  • Yes I changed, and my S7 when properly configured is like a good upgrade to the Lumia 930. Yet my wife uses the 930 now and it is still a damn good phone.  
  • since last 2-3yrs, hardly anyone from developer community has shown considerable interest in the bridges, UWP has failed to take off, and Jason still talks of it as something MS just started and coming future would be shining for MS  
  • You NAILED it.
  • Even if they hadn't ticked off their loyal customers, they are not providing anything for them to live on until they finally get their act together. First it was late 2016 for a great new device, then April 2017, now 2018. How much longer are we supposed to keep those 1020s alive? You can hardly get a "new" one on Amazon anymore, and you have to wonder how that battery is going to perform after sitting on the shelf for so long. Which of course effectively does just that - ticking off and driving away their customers. Going for great is laudable, but lend a hand to those who have been loyal all along to just simply allow them to remain loyal. And don't try to talk me into downgrading to a 950 or a HP to pass the time...
  • If it was not for my 1020 still working I would have switched from WP long time ago, and will do as soon as it gives out, even if Microsoft comes up with their future failure by then.
  • John, I am one of those users that MS pissed off. We are NOT coming back to MS for mobile/phone. My wife and I love our iphones, we have MS services on them, and they work better (besides camera image quality and overall feel), than our 1020s we had. Shame too, we loved windows, and our 1020s.....
  • @Steve I am still barely surviving on my 1020, the camera is still the best with RAW support; but just as you I will be going for an iPhone once the 1020 gives out, whatever Microsoft does by then. Same goes for everyone else I know. I was one of those recommending people to get WP, but right now I just recomended a relative to get the iPhone and forget Windows phone. Rather sad.
  • @John, I went thermonuclear on MS when they screwed me with the 1020 and not officially updating it after saying they would. I sort of hastily sold EVERYTHING MS I had. Probably the wrong decision. However, it made me realise what OSX had to offer, NOTHING. And I am very glad I figured that out before I bought my wife and myself 2 new macbooks. I picked up a dell 13" 2 in 1 for me and an 11" 2 in 1 for my wife and we LOVE THEM. I do wish I kept my touchscreen all in one. That was a pretty cool device. HOWEVER, the new dell all in ones with touch are awesome and that will be the route we go with....the dell touchscreen with the totems etc....so we both can use it with our computers now. I have an ipad air 2 to replace my surface 3 which is nice because all the apps are there. I do use apps a lot and enjoy how they all work. When I want to get work done and not just fart around, I break out my dell. Coming very soon for it are Ram upgrades and a big SSD.
  • Yeah I would never go for Apple for a PC or tablet as that is still windows all the way, but the same can't be said for the phone sector sadly.
  • I just did the same thing.  Kicked my 950 to the curb and got an iPhone.  Added all the MS services.  I miss the Windows UI but the iPhone just works.
  • This is essentially my feeling too. I gave Windows phone a shot, twice. I was first in line to jump on a Samsung Focus. Both times was royally screwed over. A smart phone is only as smart as its apps and Windows Phones have none. Every phone can text or take a decent photo these days, its the other things that put the picture together. I'm part of the Apple ecosystem now. It's too late for MS to ask me to spend repeat money on theirs. I'll happily use MS office and so long as I need a gaming PC Windows will be my computer OS. Anything beyond that though? It's going to be a stretch. I hope they can sell me on a Surface Phone eventually but I won't line up first like I did before.
  • What Microsoft fails to realise is that mainstream off-the-street people don't want a phone to replace their PC, as most non-tech people view the PC as a neccessary evil they have to use at work and don't even know how to properly use outside of lauching few programs and apps. They are not interested in a Windows PC phone that can do what their PC does, and replaces their belowed iPhone or Android device with countless useless apps that they have grown so acustomed to.
    What people fail to realize is that when Steve Jobs introduced the iPhone, people weren't looking for the web on their phone. People don't know what they want. They weren't looking for a desktop that turned into a giant drawing board. Yet that's what the Surface Studio gives them. And now people want it. People weren't looking for a tablet to replace their PC. The Surface Pro 3+ gave that to them. And now people want them. You need to find the new thing that people don't know they want because they don't know it exists yet. Moreover, Nokia, no offense to them, are not what should drive W10M and that's why he got rid of them. I trust the Surface team for more than I'd trust the Nokia team to bring something new and exciting. I don't understand why people don't realize that Windows 10 wasn't fully ready yet to kick off a full W10M for the masses to consume and enjoy. They released what they had in the pipeline and continued working on the OS so that the phone would be ready. If they kept Nokia and all that, all you'd get is just iteration of the same thing just a bit more powerful processor. Moreover, Microsoft would lose more money making these phones then they would selling them. Ballmer shouldn't have bought Nokia. They would have simply been hemorraghing money. I don't know why folks like you or AbhiWindows10 don't see that. They retrenched because they're still a for-profit company. This allowed them to slimline their design process, save money, focus resources where it'll do the most good. You are all so concerned with today whereas Nadella was always thinking about the future. You're stuck in the past.
  • Breaking down the house instead of fixing the roof?
  • Building the foundation is the most important part. Something ms never had.
  • Point is sales of hybrids have been helping slow down the PC sale decline with large increases in sales. So obviously people are buying it. Every person I know has a laptop and a phone. I have not met a single person who doesn't. Even younger people. There are some things phones can't do, but should be able to do. Most people have jobs. Sometimes they may need to work from home or even while traveling. You can buy a full solution that is more expensive or a dumb terminal that just gives you the screen/battery. People who don't need the extra power of a PC now have other options. Everyone has a tv right? Something to connect your phone to. Ipad pro sales were pretty high and keyboards sold, why? It's about choice not about rocking the world. You can buy 2 separate devices or you can buy 1 and some accessories to make things cheaper. MS just needs to make it easy to connect these devices. Either way Google is going the same route, this isn't a fad. Why do you think Google wants android apps running on their chromebooks and they are releasing 2-in-1 designs? Have you not seen the sales skyrocketing. For someone who says people don't need this they sure are selling a lot.
  • @pjhenry1216, you know what. I really hope I'm wrong with that and you're correct. I just hope that this retrenching they've done will help all of the fans here. That's all.
  • [This reply was intended for an earlier post saying Microsoft should just give up on mobile.]  NO!  The mobile market needs another option.  Apple will always be a nich ecosystem.  Why does big brother have to have the remaining 85% of the market share?  Microsoft has a great product.  But they have turned a lot of people off by being so inconsistent.  When they come out with the Surface line, they need to be all-in, with all guns blazing.  I think they also need to partner with their OEMs for lower-cost phones, because not everyone can afford the Surface line.  But Microsoft exiting mobile would be a complete disaster for everyone.
  • while Windows Mobile have not any google app or apps made for  alphabet  will not occur anything in the windows mobile market , also is funny to see that i can have on android  apps from microsoft and even more apps that are exclusive from microsoft to  Android  and on their ownhome platform windows mobile have not any app or exclusivity,  is just a bit  weird    looks like  the real catalyzer of  market share is google inc , even if the Iphone had not any google app, the Iphones would not sell well .or would be IOS  in free fall  as the numbers concerns
  • I agree with you that from the strategic point of view they did the wrong thing. Though, as I'll explain later it was perfectly fine to withdraw from mobile with the results they had if that was isolated business. What was wrong is that they have haveily damaged prospects of their consumer software platform. They haven't perceived that and they have somehow expected a smaller decline. However, the mobile business wasn't healthy and there is really nothing that could make it healthy. They were selling phones mostly to low-end market where NO COMPANY made any profit on such devices. The more they sell the more they lose money without any hope that it can change. I fully understand their wish to stop that. However, they should have continiued until they get to 'Plan B' as giving up meant loosing the momentum that UWP had at that time.
  • Ten years ago, when Apple realised the iPhone nobody saw the utility of this device, it was not for mainstream people, at all! People wanted to make calls and to have mobile device, no more. Then in a couple of years our habits, technologies and the world have changed, in a drastic way: Apps, digitalisation, social media, improvement of cellular connection, new ways to share etc.… When Samsung make the Note line, everybody was laughing of this thing. I don’t need to relate the success of the Note now; its success make it burn! When Apple realised the iPad, we were all like “how this sh*t will help us?”. It became a best-seller. And Microsoft redefine the concept with Surface Pro line. There are a lot of other examples of products people didn’t need or didn’t expect to be great in the future but which have succeeded! What I mean is that you don’t know how the market will change, how we will use our devices in the future because I can assure that it will change! Smartphone are not like diamonds, it’s not forever, a change will come! Today we’re talking about a mobile Windows 10 device on ARM architecture and we know it will define a new category of device, like the iPhone did before… With this couple of information, you just can’t tell if it will be interesting or not (Form factor, design, utilisation, possibilities offer etc.) Of course, I understand why you are pessimist but don’t forgot one thing: There is one ingredient which is important, which was important for the success of devices I quoted above: They all knew an optimistic public who believe in! Even the iPad x)  I hope you’ll understand I’ve not a big level to write in English but I understand ^^. Greeting from France! 
  • I know you said "Let me make it short here..." but you utterly failed. Lol  
  • Yeah, i realised that. But couldn't control my frustrations bro and I didn't feel like editing that bit out. Take the first para as TL;DR. Ha. :)
  • I agree with your statement about android and IOS.  I will not get an android phone.  I really don't want to have to settle for an iphone.  Have a 1.5 year old 640XL right now, just waiting.  It does most of what I need, though. I have considered the HP phone, but I am going to wait a while before spending that much money.
  • HP is an awesome device.
  • Except it is dead. Windows Mobile is being abandoned and the chances it will be updated to WOA are slim to none. It will likely require new hardware and HP didn't sell enough to justify getting it to work.
  • So what? Will just buy the next device. I change phones about once a year.
  • What next device?! Microsoft is done with phones and Samsung is about to beat them to the Surface "Phone"! Might as well switch now as it is over.
  • In 2007, Steve Jobs said "Today we are introducing 3 revolutionary products of this class. A wide screen iPod with touch controls, Revolutionary Mobile Phone, Break through internet communications device. ……These are not 3 separate devices, this is one device and we call it iPhone" and rest is history. So basically what people want is less number of devices (or just one device) to do their all daily tasks mixed with 'INNOVATION'.   Likewise, if Microsoft is able to converge the future proof Technologies in one device. Ie,   1.A Phone. 2.A PC (via Continuum using X86 on ARM Tech). 3.A VR/AR Device (when you plug in the VR goggles with similar tech used in HoloLens/Windows Holographic Shell).   I would say THIS IS THE NEXT BIG THING. Yes, a category defining a True 3-in-1 Device and you may call it Surface Phone. If Microsoft is able to implement/superimpose all this 3 technology in a single device, then the Hype will be massive (similar to surface studio) and everyone will start loving the Windows in "Phone" form factor. Gradually developers interest will also increase or they will be forced to bring apps to the windows platform. Additionally developers can also make use of the various porting tools/bridge(Project Islandwood etc.) they can bring all their apps very easily like never before.   I can't wait to see when @panos_panay standing on the stage and telling "Today we are introducing 3 revolutionary products of this class. A Miniature Cellular PC, A Revolutionary Smart Phone, A Break through Augmented Reality Headset.……These are not 3 separate devices, this is One device and we call it Surface Phone"
  • @vinuonline.... PERFECT. This is what we need !! Completely agree with you on that.
    .
    Panos on stage would rock with that opening statement. Even if ppl think it's copying.
  • Except Samsung is about to do exactly that next month and Microsoft is at least a year out at this point. Again, they are beaten to the punch and Samsung is in a much better position to make it work.
  • They must call it a Surface Phone and NEVER mention windows again!
    It might be who they are, but to the masses, windows means slow buggy PCs and blue screens and the history of WP or WM is a massive cluster fkuc.
  • They can't "not" mention Windows.
  • I'd love to see a surface phone but if it never materialized, I know something great is coming cos I heard Panos and his team are working on something great. I trust the guy, he has eyes for details. Better days ahead, Windows on mobile can't actually go worse now, it's below 1% already, it can only get better I hope
  • Something great better come !!! :D
  • uwp apps better come before it or all along with it.
  • there is still no push,cant see it comig now, how ll uwp apps come then  
  • Sadly we've all been waiting for the next big thing in WPs for 10 years.
    It hadn't yet materialised despite the constant promises, hard to see our lot being any better 5 years from now.
    I'm a big fan, but I'm jaded after years of disappointment's and despite the WP messiah coming yet again soon, I personally can't see this becoming a huge success.
    Niche works for me........same for the last decade.....and the next decade.
  • I'd love to see a surface phone but if it never materialized, I know something great is coming cos I heard Panos and his team are working on something great. I trust the guy, he has eyes for details. Better days ahead, Windows on mobile can't actually go worse now, it's below 1% already, it can only get better I hope
  • You are right Jason, Microsoft needs to launch the Surface phone when this is ready, not before, but in that long wait, as other article on Windows Central just say, market share continues to drop, people are not sticking with Windows on mobile, and to be honest, many of us are growing tired of waiting for the next move of Microsoft and give the big push it needs it Mobile effort in the market. But here we are, no more phones from the partners, not a big development on Windows 10 Mobile OS (many bugs, many issues), and app development for the platform is failing to properly work as it was planned thanks to the failure of the Mobile side of Windows 10, and fans of the platform leaving the ship; It's sad to admit it, but when something you like is having such a terrible bad time and there is not so many options left for it, you can only do 2 things if you haven't already leave the ship: Wait until the end, or hope and wait for a miracle, and even some of us, die hard fans, are tired of doing that and are already considering leave. Thanks for the article Jason, great as always!
  • Microsoft needed to have it ready last year. Samsung is about to beat them with their own Continuum solution and Samsung will actually be able to make it work. There won't be much room a year from now for Microsoft to enter the market.
  • Y partnership? Apple done with out partnership..yes I understand partnership is in MS DNA but right now its android on mobile..well dell,hp, might support..
  • Thing is, if the surface phone is a year away, then why stop selling the 650 this early? And no promotion of the Alcatel phone...? This is either very weird or very stupid.
  • Take it simple and solve the easiest problems first... It needs to be for business an consumers!
    Business: To have the big Points of Exchange intergrated (and this users don't run away to iOS or Android so fast):
    1. Intergrade the lost business features in Calendar (make it possible to view all events back to one year), showing attachments.
    2. Intergrade the lost business features in Mail oder separate UWP (tasks)
    3. Bringing Skype back to the middle with business function (share screen and remote acces for support oder meetings)
    For Consumer:
    4. Don't lose the greatest Camera (Lumia 950XL I love my W10m (950xl DS) and I won't change this platform to Android or iOS!!!
  • In 2007, Steve Jobs said "Today we are introducing 3 revolutionary products of this class. A wide screen iPod with touch controls, Revolutionary Mobile Phone, Break through internet communications device. ……These are not 3 separate devices, this is one device and we call it iPhone" and rest is history. So basically what people want is less number of devices (or just one device) to do their all daily tasks mixed with 'INNOVATION'.   Likewise, if Microsoft is able to converge the future proof Technologies in one device. Ie,   1.A Phone. 2.A PC (via Continuum using X86 on ARM Tech). 3.A VR/AR Device (when you plug in the VR goggles with similar tech used in HoloLens/Windows Holographic Shell).   I would say THIS IS THE NEXT BIG THING. Yes, a category defining a True 3-in-1 Device and you may call it Surface Phone. If Microsoft is able to implement/superimpose all this 3 technology in a single device, then the Hype will be massive and everyone will start loving the Windows in "Phone" form factor. Gradually developers interest will also increase or they will be forced to bring apps to the windows platform. Additionally developers can also make use of the various porting tools/bridge(Project Islandwood etc.) they can bring all their apps very easily like never before.   I can't wait to see when @panos_panay standing on the stage and telling "Today we are introducing 3 revolutionary products of this class. A Miniature Cellular PC, A Revolutionary Smart Phone, A Break through Augmented Reality Headset.……These are not 3 separate devices, this is One device and we call it Surface Phone"
  • Except Samsung is about to do this next month, not next year...
  • Depends on what "success" means.
    After Nadella taking a dump on WM & with who's left standing, how important is a PC in your pocket going to be to the masses?
    Not very is my guess, the corporate world may run with it?
    If in 10 years they had 10% market share, IMO they've brained it after spending the best part of a decade shooting themselves in both feet.
  • Having Lumia 950XL. Now Waiting for Surface phone.
  • Thanks for the article!
    I always wonder, what if Nadella never retrenched?
    Imagine a scenario where MS continued to sell low/mid/high end wp handsets over the last 2 years. By now they would have added 80-100mn more users which would have resulted in more market share, mind share and apps. There was a time when WP was outselling iOS in 30+ countries, was on the rise in EU and India and even Russia etc. Now, even when the surface phone launches, the app gap would remain which i think is the biggest factor holding W10M back. Add to that, barring some of the most commonly (popular) apps like fb, insta, whatsapp etc. there is a very high importance of local specific apps. In India, we had foodpanda app which is no longer there. The same is the cae with bank apps and apps of other services like groupon, swiggy etc.
    A phone that would be category redifining, with a very desirable and strong brand name (Surface), an OS with over 500mn users and with the app gap mostly taken care of, it would be a sure shot hit.
    I hope MS knows what is it doing. They can't get it wrong again in the mobile space, specially when they plan to use the name SURFACE!!
  • "What if Nadella never retrenched?" Exactly what I thought and commented. :)
    .
    There was a time in India (around 2013) when I saw WP's nearly everywhere... Sigh.
  • Microsoft now has a waaaay bigger issue than the horrible app gap, trust. Who will ever trust a Nadella led company? Not phone consumers, or Band customers, or developers that thought Nadella would care about Windows mobile market share and their investment in his platform, and definitely not OEMs. Forget the App Gap, no one trusts Nadella's commitment or willingness to fight their shared interests. That's the biggest problem today.
  • So damn true man. Trust is broken now. It's gonna be tough.
  • So True; Trust is everything and Microsoft has pretty much lost it with everyone, most of all with the loyal Windows Phone 8.1 fans who counted on Microsoft's promise to upgrade all WP8.1 devices to Windows 10 only to see the middle finger from Microsoft once more as was the case when they got screwed when WP7 switched to WP8 and they were assured never again will they be left behind.
  • for me personally, I agree. But the general public, those "future" customers, have not had their trust broken so i don't think it will be a factor. If MS has something new & compelling they will come.
  • But they've burned, repeatedly, their most loyal fan base, and those are your free marketing arm when you have good products. Who here is still willing to try and talk someone in to a Windows Phone with the pathetic support from Nadella? He embarrassed everyone that trusted him and did...
  • And u assume Google n Apple are just sitting ducks? Google just needs to wait n watch, let MS come up wiith  something n simply adopt it, n be succesful with its huge consumer base
  • If Nadella didn't retrench, they would have lost even more millions in mobile and the board would probably have fired him and shut down the division and got out of mobile.
  • I guess it is better to spend billions to buy companies(linkedin) that most don't see the benefit than lost millions in mobile while keeping people happy.  Serious if MS give 7.8user $200 ea store credit to upg to 920 and $200 to 920-30 user to upg to 950 WP likely have 20% as predicted.  I am sure it don't cost MS $700 to make 950xl, at worst they be break even but MS decided to take short term profit instead of keep people happy.
  • Nothing Microsoft could do would make Windows phone popular. People just don't like it and never have. Microsoft needed to change their strategy and UI when they rebooted with WP8.
  • The problem was the best sellers were low end devices. No one wanted to pay for apps. Ms has the data. For years you saw the 520 dominate the space. You need to realize premium sells the whole ecosystem. Low value sells a user that wants to save as much money as possible. Apple makes way more than android from their store. And they have way less shares. They are the first place a dev will go. you are not smarter than a huge company that had the data. Italy was also going through financial problems, guess why the shares grew there? Guess what phone sold most? India same deal. Why do you think ms/hp priced their phones so high. They want the premium users. Pixel is nothing special but sold for a high price.
  • I know and agree. But again just for the shear number this was important.
  • You didn't read what he wrote and he is right., Those numbers were not important because they were all really cheap devices that do not make money for anyone, especially developers. All those people who bought L520s didn't upgrade to 730, 830 or 930. Microsoft wouldn't be in a better position of they stuck with it. They would still only have 3% market share worldwide and it would only be the worst part of the market, cheap phones and their frugal owners.
  • But the low end devices ensured that people were getting to know the eco system and investing themselves in it. In a few years time those who got the 520 to just try it out, might very well consider a higher end device, the problem was by that time Microsoft did not have any flagship device. The latest 'flagship' Lumia 950 was so broken that it took a year after launch for it to be remotely usable as everyday phone, by that time all app developers left and were pulling their apps. You can't expect to attract people that want the latest and greatest flagship when you constantly fail to offer them. Even when Lumia was at its hight, they still lacked a market leading flagship that blew all competion away, maybe beside the camera tech in the Lumia 1020, but again a flaghip with outdated internal who's only selling point was the camera and it did not even have SD card support. If you want premium users you need to offer premium devices with the eco system to support them and innovation that pushes them ahead of competition.
  • The were phones for the 520 buyers to upgrade to. HTC M8, Samsung had a point and the L930 were available. The issue was Android became really good on low end devices and there was no longer a reason to buy a Windows phone.
  • The problem with HTC M8 and Samsung WP, was that at the time compared with Nokia phones and in particular the exclusive Nokia apps they had little success, as the Nokia Lumia apps were a huge selling point of getting a WP. But again even with the HTC and Samsung devices, it was nothing that was not already available on Android, so why would an Android user swich? They would not and thus it was not a flaghip device that made the Windows Phone OS stand out as something more.
  • Those devices always felt like long in the tooth hand me downs.
  • My beautiful 930 begs to differ
  • but the difference is the logo Android which is futureproof instead of windows logo which is not futureproof or ensure anything than an poor app selection and glitches now
  • u think Italy, India etc bought WP as it was cheap? that was the most foolish comment that I have seen in a long time here. Apple, Samsung and everyone else still sells premium phones in India i huge numbers, Android had even cheaper alternatives than 520, but why did ppl go with lumias, first ppl didnt buy WPs, but Nokias, second WP performed better then cheap androids, so in short provided value for money. the problem with MS premium phones was that they sold stone aged specced phones as compared to competetetors and offered NO value for money, only 1020 was exception but its numbers were low, there was demand and no supply. same was the case for mid rangers 720 and 720, demand exceeded supply, and Ms never bothered to meet the supply, the reason why 830 failed was again the same selling low end specs and pricing it close to premium. if you think low end doesnt bring in profits, look at xiomi and oneplus.   Just today I was looking at amazon India MS store to see what phones were available, Lumia 950 was out of stock, n 950XL was priced almost close to pixel and much more than s7 edge, only a foold would buy 950xl at that price.
  • I cannot wait for the Surface Phone anymore, is Lumia 950 XL still a good buy?
  • after all firmware updates yes
  • But only if on 50% or more sale. Otherwise its not worth it.
  • Alright, thanks.
  • Yes it is.  And it is cheaper now.  As long as you don't want a overload of farting apps, or teenage social apps, you will be fine.  I rock my 950xl all over the world for my travels in my work.  Hasn't let me down.
  • Thanks, I'll proceed with the purchase.
  • Absolutely! Have it since lunch. Uber partner app forces me to use xperia z5 (android) for driving, and what a dreadful experience it is... Love 950 XL! Always a relief to come back to it after using the Sony...
  • Yay, glad to hear that!
  • Unless a Windows Phone user interface is a must for you I would stay away from any Lumia/Windows device unless you can get it dirt cheap; and then don't expect to have banking, fitness, store loyalty, cable TV, or countless other apps you might want.  
  • Ally Bank is on there. I switched banks because they had an Windows Phone app. American Express is on there too, no? Fitness, both Fitbit and Garmin are on there. Store Loyalty, i only know of Starbucks unfortunately. Cable TV i've never looked into.
  • You can do everything you need through Edge.  Who needs to download a truckful of apps.  That said, the fact that the apps aren't available is enough to scare many people away.
  • Tim, can you Snapchat using a web browser?
  • True, I never need Snapchat or such fancy apps.
    Only the basics will do.
  • Yes, I'm an avid WP user.
  • Only if you're comfortable buying in the used/aftermarket/ebay without testing in store, as most stores no longer carry it.
  • If you are OK with a dead platform. Microsoft isn't giving meaningful updates any longer and it very well may be abandoned when WOA is released. There is no reason whatsoever for buying a Windows phone today, especially since the Galaxy S8 is rumored to have a Continuum like feature and will actually have apps for it.
  • 950xl is a great phone. Very stable, excellent camera, brilliant screen, fast. HP is also brilliant.
  • Okay, thanks for the positive review.
  • Yes, win10M is really good now, and they have it at amazon at $293.00 dlls
  • Make sure you carry a battery pack with you.  Source me with both 950 and XL.
  • Any windows phone will not suceed without all mainstream apps.  If ios/android gets an app, windows needs to get it.  If can't do that, not many are going to move away from their existing platforms.  
  • Kind of where I'm at. If Blizzard, or Activision, wants to make a new app, I would hope to see them create it for iOS, Android and Windows. I can't stand asking the same question - or at least seeing a new post once a month - about making Hearthstone for Windows 10 as an app. The answer is either, "Get an Android...", or "We don't have plans...". How about screw competition, too. If Nintendo wants to add Super Mario Run onto Windows 10, we shouldn't assume they won't because of competition with Xbox. At least that's my thought.
  • agreed
  • Will people move even if they can get the same apps? I don't think so. Windows needs exclusive apps and a revolutionary device at this point. It will be a few years before technology will support a device revolution and it is doubtful Microsoft will be creating or had access to that technology.
  • If....and a big if.....I could have the iPhone app catalog on my 1020 running windows 10 mobile.....I would come back.
  • The 1020 does not have a single positive compared to the iPhone 5, let alone the 6 or 7. That phone sucked when it released, let alone today. There is a reason no one bought it and Microsoft never created a successor.
  • man, the 1020 was revolutionary by their pixels on camera but that did not caused that apps came there, we had an nasty instagram beta for over years  , google just with their mock of google search app, so  an revolutionary phone  is not really an answer,  rather apps is the answer, what could do an high end phone    that can not do an computer, i mean android, IOS,  those phones does exactly the same thanks to applications, and windows mobile have not applications to behave like computer,   an surface phone is not also an answer, when have failed in bring developers to your own platform and invest more time and money to yours rivals.
  • Pixels do not make a good camera, the L1020 was a good example. It was quickly surpassed by the iPhone and Galaxy, even if they couldn't zoom in as much. If Microsoft came out with something like the tablets in Westworld, then that would be revolutionary and apps would come automatically because people would adopt it. That is the kind of technology Microsoft needs, but they are not in the position to create that sort of tech. The LGs and Samsungs of the world are.
  • >Will people move even if they can get the same apps? I don't think so. They tried Android apps on WIndows 10 Mobile (I did play with it for a while and it did work pretty well for the limited time I had it) but, it was a buggy mess and caused problems with WIndows Phone. That would be the ONLY way they could complete in this market. They are too far gone (years with no support, if they are trying to renew the market in phones it would take them billions) out of the market to do anything here. They need to find a way to get Android or iOS apps running on a WIndows Mobile device in a solid way keeping a stable OS, to even have a SHOT here. If they kept on promoting it and put new devices on all carriers, I am sure they would be over the 1% they are now...
  • They need more than app parity, which will never truly come unless the apps are also native. Microsoft has no way to compete these days. Their only chance is to invent the next big thing, which is likely going to be a display technology like in Westworld. Microsoft doesn't have a dog in that race or compelling software to run even if they did. They need to keep their services relevant and full Windows healthy. They are dead when it comes to Mobile platforms and hardware.
  • I don't see microsoft having presence in phones for several years after the debacles starting with WM5 still ongoing. That said MS can and should really start to dominate the 2-1 and tablet productivity market with ARM PCs that can run x86 apps. EXPAND this market. Thin device (with keyboard), cellular data (connect anywhere without wifi), great battery life and better performance than things like the Surface3. The MS "mobile" failure was inevitable but failing in the tablet space can be fixed ASAP. That can allow phone presence later on starting with secure enterprise & even small business use scenarios (where snapchat and apps are liabilities and non-productive).    
  • Now that you mention tablets, I heard Apple will launch iPad in Spring 2017, is the tablet gadget going to reborn again from ashes?  Well, I'm actually not expecting a tablet from Microsoft, I'm expecting a phone that can convert into a full productivity PC using Windows 10 on ARM features.
  • I'm curious, what is it about Windows on ARM that will spark the expected influx of apps?
  • Think of Android users that are active users of the termux app, I am one of them and I wished something like this could come to Surface phone, specially now that Linux subsystem runs on Windows 10 when you enable developer mode in settings. With apps like these, users don't need to root their phones and have access to open source tools that will help them to get job done without a PC, all they need is a monitor, keyboard and a mouse and that is what Continuum is going to be a hit when Windows 10 on ARM gets finished.
  • What you are describing doesnt seem applicable, are we expecting android apps to run directly on Windows? Or is there already a UWP desktop only version of the app you mention? I dont think having Windows on ARM automatically enables android app support. Plus there's also the question of running full Windows on a phone form factor, how effective/desirable would that be?
  • I think he means that you'd have access to full x86 apps and can install whatever you want. You could have a linux type environment and easily hook it up to a KVM setup and get a full blown linux-like PC if you wanted. Basically, people that used Android like a cheap linux machine could use Windows on ARM as a cheap linux machine, but it'd be more capable and do it almost out of the box. At least I think that's what he's saying.
  • Yes you understood my point, Android's termux app is like Linux subsystem, you get access to thousands of ubuntu packages for software development all you need is to know how to use apt manager
  • Never said Android apps,I mean features like bash for Windows 10
  • So to a normal person how does that work? Cause to the level you are talking about am already running linux forget about win10
  • It will do very little. If UWP and bridges are failing, loading phones with Win32 apps isn't going to much for mobile either. It may help in tablets, but even the iPad sales are declining. The IT world is going phone.
  • It's important for *desktop* Windows in general, that it can run in slim ultrabook form factors using ARM processors, so devices can get longer battery life, slimmer and so forth. But, I agree, it'll have no impact on UWP mobile apps.  That ship has long sailed for Microsoft.
  • Availability of cheap ARM tablets, capable of running some Steam games and other desktop apps might bolster UWP development too, but it would take quite a while.
  • Nothing. And thus WC writers always throw in the discussion of bridges n bots into the mix as if thats going to change the lack of developer interest, Atleast Jason no longer uses the 10billion devices image anymore to highlight uwp.
  • Great read, I think most folks waiting for Surface Phone are thinking in hardware features only like: Excelent camera, waterproof, audio jack, edge glass, Hi-Def Sound (Dolby Atmos), 4K video recording, good photos in low light, etc, high fps on latest games, 128GB storage options, etc  But this article points at the other things that can make Surface phone succeed and that is software.  I'm one of the Surface phone fans that is waiting for Centennial to allow Win32 programs run on my phone, this would allow me to get rid of my netbook with Windows XP with Atom CPU and 1GB of RAM I still use. A 15 year old OS like Windows XP can run a lot of software that iOS and Android can never dream of having, and thanks to Windows 10 on ARM this can be my dream come true.
  • What killer, mainstream software is available on x86 and isn't available on iOS or Android?
  • Gimp, blender, LMMS, FreeCAD, Scilab and many devops software
  • Those are not mainstream in the slightest. They are not going to drive sales.
  • Developers don't use those things.... They go full linux
  • problem is apps are just not coming, win10 has been out for a while (desktop) , and how often there is a new meningfull app released? Even looking at Edge extensions, what do we have  , like 10 of them?        
  • Yep, they retrenched in mobile betting on a vision that is crumbling around them.
  • '' Though it has never been explicitly confirmed ''  . Ok thanks.
  • We have been listening to Microsoft news about ending the windows mobile support for their own apps and the apps for their main partners. We have been listening how Nadella is killing windows mobile.
  • Can someone explain how this surface phone will change everything? Other than running full windows and X86 programs (which would have issues with battery life and interface issues on such a small screen for most i would think), what could it possibly do that would get masses of iOS and Android users to switch? I really am curious on this issue.  
  • Nadella walled away from a growing 5% market share in the US, and 10% in the EU, and he has no answers.
  •   I would think of running x86 only when you have a remote desktop set up. Instead of using the PC in place, you use the monitor and keyboard but use the phone that already has all your settings and files where you want them without a reliance on stable internet at the location. This is perfect for someone like me that is in IT at a grain business where our 9 locations can be remote. The funds are also not there to put an extra desktop at each location for when we visit nor do I want to carry a phone, laptop and tablet around. That is where this comes in, it replaces my laptop, tablet and phone with one device. Also replaces the bill I have to look at for all three with one device (I'll spend 20% more on a single thing that does everything than buy 3 things at 3 different locations and worry about maintaining all 3). At the same time while there the phone would be plugged in so battery hit wouldn't be an issue. In reality though, I believe Android was working on something similar and I'm sure by this point Apple is as well so if Microsoft misses the boat with either features or doesn't get it out first then it would be a failure in my mind.
  • OK, I guess I can kinda see that. But you still have to have a monitor, keyboard and mouse at these locations. Wouldn't it just be easier to carry a laptop with cell service? Can anyone else provide an answer for someone who (like me) just works 9-5, has kids, and uses his phone mostly for entertainment?
  • It's about the birth of cheap dumb laptop docks that simply use your phone for processing and have a screen and battery. Imagine paying 99-199 for that to use with your phone. It also acts as a battery to keep phone charged. Point is you save money this way if you need a laptop anyways. Your phone should be able to do all your general processing whether on a bigger screen, keyboard or some other new form of input. A lot of people buy powerful laptops but don't need them. All that money and upkeep for general use.
  • same thing i wanna know, i think we just need uwp apps for missing iOS and Android apps and ship back to markets like India and Brazil
  • I want to continue using a W10M smartphone. I really do. I prefer W10 mobile, the looks, the navigation, the interface. But Microsoft is making it so hard for my next smartphone not to be Android, even for a user like me without major mobile requirements in terms of features and apps (not to mention the fact all Microsoft apps are available on Android anyways and some even receive priority on Android over W10M).  I don't need a full-blown Surface Phone, I want a competent Lumia 640 successor to accompany my other devices that already run Windows/Office/OneDrive. Mine is already 18 months old and I'm switching mobile carrier this month, and there are plenty of Android models to choose from to be included in the deal. It's almost borderline impossible to remain on Windows 10 Mobile once my Lumia 640 dies out. Why not continue to release 1/2 devices for low-mid range every year while the mythical Surface Phone doesn't arrive? Why lose more and more of the already tiny loyal costumer base in the meantime?   Microsoft, do you even care at all? Why push us into a rival platform?
  • Until Microsoft has any car functionality in Windows 10 it's a useless OS to me. Just bought an iPhone 7 today. Done waiting for something that will never come.
  • which car and deck you have, i've used all my windows phones with my decks.
  • Windows Phones work great with Ford's sync system
  • Quite Simply, MS needed something to carry them through to the launch of any Surface Phone. Guess what, there's nothing and it's helping kill the platform.
  • Nothing?...950xl, HP Elite X3, Alcatel Idol 4S, Acer Jade promo, Microsoft 650 (low end), 640/xl still work very well.
  • Elite X3 is not aimed at consumers, Idol is not available anywhere other than 1 smaller carrier in a US. The others mentioned are old devices and are no longer manufactured.
    So yes, to me that amounts to nothing. I use a 950 and I'm pissed at MS for what I see as a horribly misjudged idea that they can step out the market and not materially damage the platform that I invested into.
    The current availability of devices is at odds with what Satya said they'd do. At best they planned poorly for 16/17 at worst they just lied.
  • Well, I was recently thinking, how Surface Phone can make industry go "Boom", and I came up with scenario, which sounds too cool to be true, but when you think about it again, it looks too damn realistic. Imagine this: High-end smartphone with regular experience, which you can plug into your monitor and have a full pc experience, AND an option, to stick it into headset and get Windows Holographic PC (using phone as a screen for the headset like those of samsung have, or USB type-c headset plugged into phone). If rumours are true, and the camera will be HUUUGE on Surface Phone, camera on the phone might even be used to process surroundings and let the phone work as a hololens to some point - i.e. phone with augmented reallity. Considering that microsoft's vision of the future is "full 3d" I expect Surface Phone's camera to be at least capable of scanning objects like they did on one of MS Paint3D presentations, and probably even be able to map surroundings. Using phone for VR-esque experience is no big deal with lots of such solutions existing, but none of them packs all the features, which you require to get things done. 
  • what a wonderful dream, we haven't meet that far yet bro. wishful thinking
  • Samsung might have all that next month with the GS8. Maybe not the AR part though.
  • Smoke and bullshit (on MS' part). By the time any fantasy surface phone appears the platform will be dead in the market.  .
  • Its already dead now; even if a Surface Phone came out tomorrow, it would make no difference when the eco system is dead and no developers are eager to develop for the UWP.
  • Mmmmmmmmm S*it!... I love Nokia and I love Windows Phones, most difficult decision ever. Hahaha!..
  • Prediction: They will release a massively awesome device after being so silent in 2016 with subpar first-party devices: 950 and 950xl. (my opinion is that the hardware quality under Nokia was phenomenally better. My father wants his 920 back even though it's slower due to older hardware) The general consumer market (besides enthusiasts like us) will be cautious regardless of how good the quality can potentially be. Microsoft will need to accept that and keep driving software and hardware development. This will show their committment and will be the only way to buy back the love they've lost. I'm afraid Microsoft will see a mild to mildly successful launch, decide they didn't make enough money in the short-term and bail on the mobile/phone project entirely.
  • My biggest push to stay or not will be APPS because with insurance, banking, and work, I would like to have those things conveniently accessible at my fingertips.
  • The Surface Phone is already here, featurewise. I think I have one at home. The secret lies in wireless Continuum. Not sure what Microsoft is going to add in the not-a-phone that is supposed to come, but I suspect pairing options between Windows 10 Creators Update devices and remote displays (televisions, monitors, AR/VR glasses) is going to be an important part of it.    A while ago I bought a cheap offer Lumia 950XL to replace the broken screen one I already had. It turned out to be a 950, rendering my extra battery and Mozo cover superfluous. At first I was disappointed. It turned out to be the perfect replacement for my Apple TV and my cable settop box in one (pocketable!) device. I now have a television remote control with a comfortable and quickly responding touchscreen The Apple TV was a let down from day one, really does not have anything to do with TV but is just an expensive DLNA app with a nice remote. In this age of subscription streaming media it has no value whatsoever as a standalone device. It was only after I opened a Netflix account that I had any use for it. Enter Lumia 950 + Microsoft Wireless Display Adapter, guess what? Apple TV is superfluous again. Not only is the Windows 10 Mobile Netflix interface a lot easier to use than the Apple TV, it also has my Cable network app with all live TV channels, including replay tv and on demand movies. It has apps for all major media services, full access to internet (desktop and mobile mode) and a whole range of other apps that are usefull on any screen, like news, weather, traffic, calendar, email, cooking, you name it. All with a gloriously responsive touchscreen, miles ahead in usability versus any settopbox which are all basically grossly underpowered computers with clumsy interfaces. And games! Throw in my beamer and XBox Elite controllers you'll  understand why I never think of my Apple TV anymore other than in sorry sentiments. Oh, and I brought it on holiday so we had basically the exact same setup in every AirBnB appartment as we have at home. All it takes is a windows phone, dongle and a screen with an HDMI input.
    ​Isn't that Surface Phone enough?
  • i think it is, we just need uwp apps that's all.
  • I don’t see Continuum as being enough a differentiator, even with ARM support for x86 apps, to get back on top of the smartphone business. Smartphone hardware is stagnating since years, people buy the new thing out of habits but starts to realize that their new models doesn’t really bring anything new to the table. Connecting a phone to a monitor or TV, external keyboard and mouse, and use it like a PC won’t change much. I’ve been in mobile since the Windows CE announcements, the Handheld PC, Palm-size PC, Pocket PC, Windows-powered Smartphone, Windows Mobile, Windows Embedded CE on industrial ruggedized mobile terminals … the whole Microsoft mobile story. Carrying demo and test devices around taught me something, which is that a mobile solution is to be examined as a whole. If you take a consumer device and add things to make it connect to industrial systems and make it more shock-resistant, you’ll often end up with something more bulky, less ruggedized and not cheaper than an industrial mobile terminal. If you take something ultra-mobile but need to take an extra keyboard, mouse, adapter dongles, etc in your bag along with it, to the point it’s not smaller than a device that integrates all that, you’ve failed as well (see recent MacBook + adapter dongles issue). Continuum, while a great idea, does not make your device any more capable by itself. If you carry your device, Continuum is useless until you reach a desk with available monitor, keyboard and mouse. If you carry a proper keyboard, a mouse and a Miracast dongle, just enough to take advantage of that hotel-room TV as a monitor, you’ve already reached about the same bulkiness and weight as a Surface Pro or Surface Book, and still have to add spare batteries for all these peripherals, more pieces to keep in a bag, basically less convenient than a device that already integrates a keyboard, trackpad and screen. I truly believe in Continuum, but believe it will become a differentiator only when we have flexible screens that makes it possible to stretch your phone at least into a tablet to get that one-device / two-usages the Surface brand is known for, a smartphone and a tablet to consume media on a larger screen. And I don’t think a sleeve with just a touchscreen you can slide your phone into is going to work as a stepping stone to that, if you must carry something as big as a tablet besides your smartphone to get the experience, you might as well just carry a separate tablet. Taking advantage of Windows Holographic to make a mobile device that can be a phone and a HMD with proper 6 degrees of freedom and inside-out tracking could be another one-device / two-usages target, but again, current technology makes it hard to include better sensors in a smartphone, and if you need a more advanced headset to add the missing pieces, you might as well just carry a separate complete headset like Intel Alloy. Fact is, the only differentiating device I can think of with today’s technology would be a small Surface, maybe foldable with two displays like the Courrier, with a Bluetooth earpiece that provides telephony through the tablet. Something that is small enough to carry with you like the phablets, provides good battery life and cell connectivity using Snapdragon, x86 compatibility, and all telephony features through a companion earpiece. I think we’ll see impressive all-in-one Holographic headsets before we see impressive new smartphones, and I’m not even sure sunglasses with integrated Holographic won’t kick the smartphones out before that Surface Phone becomes a reality.
  • Surface Phone 2018... Guess I'll just have to wait. My Lumia 950XL is still going strong, although with so many preview updates it has accumulated a few problems by now and I'm not sure if I should factory reset it
  • They said 2017 why 2018 now? 
  • I don't want to run w32 apps on a 5 inch screen. I don't need a "phone" that needs to plug into a screen and keyboard to give me a viable computing experience. I've already got a 10" Asus hybrid, and an 11.6" Acer laptop. Between them they cover my mobile computing needs better than a smaller device ever will. Having full Windows on ARM will no doubt bring even better options to meet these needs, but screen and keyboard size really matter. I DO want a pocket device that handles calls and messaging, integrates PIM services and other data with my other computers, lets me listen to music and even take the odd photo. I really love the W10M UI and miss it, but in every other respect going back to Android after W10M has been like ermerging from a darkened room. What kind of signal does it send when a company Microsoft owns (Linked In) "retires" its W10M app?  Is there space for Microsoft to "reinvent the category"? Perhaps in the longer term, because if you think about it all the interesting stuff going on at the moment is about reinventing input/output ie getting past the physical contraints of screens and keyboards. But as far as I can see the tech involved here is still quite a long way from being mainstream, and until it's in place phone-like devices will continue to dominate the mass market. 
  • Well, to be fair, this is all future plans anyway. There's a reason why what I'm typing this reply to you on doesn't say Lumia on it, but instead features a very shiny piece of fruit with a bite out of it on the back. I see very little value in discussing the current state of Windows Mobile. It's all about whether or not MS will succeed in this paradigmatic effort that they're currently working on. We'll have to wait and see, but I think the news of late is leaving us with A LOT to be excited about and optimistic about. As I said in my main reply below, just as MS is in "retrenchment" with their mobile efforts, so am I in "retrenchment" with my aspirations towards being one for whom a Windows Mobile device becomes my "daily driver". My next upgrade point is slated for this fall (or late summer...I can't remember). And unless we just get a HEEEEUGE surprise that none of us are expecting, a Win10M device will NOT be included in the consideration list this time around, but instead, it'll either be the next iteration of the iPhone, or the next iteration of the Pixel. One of the two....... ........but I am hoping that for my subsequent upgrade point in 2019 to have not an iOS device in my pocket, nor an Android device, nor even what we conceptualize today as a "Windows Phone", but rather the fulfillment of Redmond's vision - an ultraportable WIndows10 PC, that I also use for calls and texts and mobile games, and responding to comments on Windows Central, and all of that. :-) Cheers! p.s. I apologize if I misread you, but if you're worried about the UI of the "Surface Phone" being a full-fledged Win10D desktop environment while not docked - on a screen waaaay too teeny tiny to support it, I don't think that's the fear. I think even Win10D on phone will contain some form of Continuum which works in the opposite direction - giving you something very much akin to the Win10M UI that you continue to miss since your jump to Android. The magic of this thing is that it will purportedly "be a PC" when you want that, and "be a phone" when you want that. So unless I'm either misreading you, or misreading the news, I don't think you have anything to worry about, other than how successful the app bridges will be, perhaps. :-)
  • You will not be running w32 apps on a 5 inch screen. the Surface "phone" will be a 5 or 6 inch celluar PC. If the device is smaller than 8 inches, you will more than likely use Continum when running your w32 apps. Microsoft is beeffing up Skype to handle calls and messaging testing on Android and iOS.  For PIM services, Microsoft have Office 365 and Wunderlist which are cross platform and cross devices. Also that are intergrated with Microsoft's Android apps Next Lock Screen and Arrow Launcher, which I thank may come to the Surface "phone". Microsoft did not retire the W10M Linked In app.
  • You have misread me a little - my point about W32 apps is really about the value of having a single all-capable device - the fact that it can switch modes depending on available i/o is of no real practical interest - I need a mobile device I can actually work on when I'm sitting on a train or in a cafe, and if that means having to carry a separate dock/screen device as well then I'd be no better off than I am now. The point about cross-platform PIM services also underlines my sense of what's going on ... in a way this is Jason's point, that Microsoft is not going to address the space currently owned by iOS and Android, except by providing its own services on those platforms, but will instead try to create something different which makes that space irrelevant. But actually that means transcending the physical limits of the phone form factor in a way that doesn't involve plugging in ancillary equipment. You might get some of the way by having vastly superior voice control and input, but that's still no use if you're sitting in a public space. As for Linked In, it might not be directly managed by Microsoft right now, but it's hard to imagine the company's owner might not have had something to say about it, since it gives off a bad signal. I really hope I'm wrong, because I'd be really happy to return to a Windows Phone with a fully-fledged ecosystem, but I don't see any sign of that happening. 
  • Make a top notch hardware. Stick everything you can into it. No more skimping on certain hardware options.
  • No real secret...Microsoft is only keeping Windows Mobile afloat and under development in hopes that XBOX, HoloLens, Surface, Windows 10 IoT, Windows 10 on ARM devices & whatever else they can sneak Windows 10/Cortana on to will create a wave of UWA's that will allow Windows Mobile to leech of their sucess and essentially be brought back from the dead.
  • Why... seriously why can't I get a phone that dual boots. .. WM when I want the best OS and Android for those few apps I need.
  • Hurry up MSFT ....  '' Samsung Desktop Experience '' is coming .... not 'soon' .... 2017 / 2018 ! 
  • Excellent write-up as always, Jason! While I continue to remain a greater "ideological proponent" of Windows than of any other platform, and while I continue to watch the news here at Windows Central with greater attention and interest than I do the news at either of the other two major Mobile Nations sister sites (and have been pretty happy with most of the news here of late), and while I retain my long-term optimism for and "cheerleader stance" towards the platform in general and especially for its eventual lynchpin mobile initiative, I think in the short term, the "retrenchment mindset" has finally fully sank in, and in the immediate term, I think my pursuit of Windows mobile has stopped as well. I will be due for a phone upgrade this fall, and it will be a tough choice between whether I replace my aging iPhone6+ with whatever the alleged "iPhone 8" will be, and whatever the next iteration of the Pixel will be. So unless we just get HUGELY surprised this year by a Surface phone that's also available on Verizon, Microsoft is off my radar for this next round. -HOWEVER- my hope is that Lord and Redmond willing, to have a first party, flagship Windows10 "ultraportable PC" be what I rock in my pocket starting in 2019 at my subsequent upgrade spot. The way the Microsoft news is trending these days....I really, really, REALLY think that it'll happen! :-) Keep up the great work, Jason! Cheers!
  • The only exception to what I said about [TEMPORARILY] abandoning the pursuit of a Windows Phone til the "upgrade-after-next" is this: Now that's I've launched the Nerd Noise Radio video game music podcast, as you likely already know, Jason, I'm toying with the idea of opening a "hotline", like what The Legacy Music Hour has, where I would have an unmanned phone# where listeners can call in and leave voicemails that I can listen to and respond to later. It'd be easy to buy a pay-as-you-go phone, put a smidge of talk and data on it, and be able to camp on that for a long time. If I were REALLY smart, I'd just buy a "dumb phone" for this. But I think I might be a little more self-indulgent than that, and either buy some super cheapie, off-brand Android phone.......or a Windows phone. If I pay a little extra, maybe I can buy a halfway decent one that'll let me put it on insider preview, and if I REEEEEEAAAALLY wanted to go nuts, I could find the cheapest Continuum supported phone, and dock, and screw around with all this stuff in WiFi from home, using the podcast as a pretext to get to play with Windows. :-) But yeah, as a "serious business", "daily driver" phone, like I said before, Windows is out of he running for me in 2017, with my next chance not coming til 2019, at which point I SERIOUSLY hope to be able to take the "Windows plunge" full-on! :-)
  • Lumia 735 on Verizon is pretty good, and they apparently still have a few left
  • Yeah, that is a good idea! Something in that vein, or like an Icon or such. Only no Continuum. But I'm not sure if I can really justify the expense for such a thing considering the limited "Spielzeug" use case. A 735 or equivalent is probably the best compromise between "smart" and "fun" under the circumstances. Of course, if I'm just doing one of those "pay as you go" deals, then there's nothing to say I have to stay bound to Verizon for it. Thanks, Tim! :-)
  • 🙂 Thanks man...Always like to read your contributions to the conversation. Sorry to hear your (likely) temporary departure from the platform, but I appreciate your reasoned presentation of your decision.
    I'm a Windows phone fan BUT I'm a techie first, and truth os if I could afford it I'd likely have a Windows Phone, IPhone 7 Plus, some Samsung Galaxy and maybe some other less known devices. But since I'm currently fiscally challenged, 1520 and 1020 it is. I use the 1020 for a business line and 1520 as my daily driver. I thought about getting another platform for the business line just to satisfy my techie passions, but didn't go that route....yet. I really do not like the stale UI stagnant UI of simple icons. But I do like many things about both the iPhone as well as Android. My preference though - Windows phone😉
  • No doubt! I'm right with you on the "if I could have of one (or more than one) of each", that's totally what I'd do! There's just too much I love about all of them, too many merits to just write them off. Most of this you already know from earlier exchanges, but I've actually been largely successful in the desktop/laptop space at this. I have a "DIY" Win10 gaming PC that I play games and consume media on (and when I say "DIY", I really mean more like "shake and bake" - I helped. :-D) I have a Mac mini in the basement that I record the podcast on, and do music with, as well as Office and the like. Yes, yes, I prefer the Windows version of Office too, but Office is so much better sitting at a desk 12" from the screen than it is sitting on the couch 6 feet away, so I make do with the Mac version. On the flip side of that, I still slightly prefer iTunes to Groove, but do more media through Groove anyway because chilling on the couch 6ft away is so much more satisfying that sitting upright in a chair 12" away (and I refuse to use iTunes on my PC other than for streaming through Apple Music since that's the only way). So it's a two way street. On the Android front, I have a Remix mini, which, of course is a very promising "desktop" version of Android running on a very unpromisingly little box. I have it hooked up in the bedroom. I also have Ubuntu installed on an old laptop, we got the 9yr old a Chromebook for Christmas, and my wife's using a modest Windows10 all-in-one in the office downstairs, with aspirations for a Chromebook of her own. So we're a very multiplatform house already. I'd LOVE to take that and apply it to mobile as well. But costs and logistics of that are just so prohibitive, as you can certainly lament along with me. In all reality you and I are unlikely to ever realize this goal of ours, though I'm glad I'm not alone in feeling this way and aspiring for it. :-) Lastly, as far as my temporarily leaving the hunt for a a Windows phone: think of it this way instead: Microsoft is going into a cocoon, and will emerge as something beautiful. So, I'm going into a cocoon of sorts as well, and Lord willing, will emerge at the Microsoft's kiosk in Jordan Creek town center (West Des Moines) holding aloft my shiny new Surface Phone like Link thrusting aloft the Triforce! As long as Microsoft comes back, I'll be back too. Meanwhile, I'll be keeping a very benevolent - and very eager eye on things from a distance. Cheers, Jason!
  • 1. Panos Panay has enver impressed me, so I have zero expectation for whatever he's working on. I still use the Nokia Lumia 920, 1020 and 1520 as the benchmark for design. NOBODY has made ANYTHING coming close to the beauty and solid build of those devices since. And I don't expect anyone will.  So, I expect to continue to be disappointed. 2.  Apps have never been an issue for me on Windows Phone---until W10M, where Microsoft departed from the Metro UI, which I STILL love MUCH better.  There is no comparison.  I've never found myself wishing I had an app that didn't exist on Windows Phone.  I agree, though, that apps will begin to decline, but I think there are certain TYPES of apps that will never decline because they don't make sense being browser-based now.  Mostly, that will be social.  The big problem I have as a consumer is that it's likely companies will move to mobile-friendly browsing experiences.  I hate having to use a browsers as it is, ESPECIALLY on a phone. All this ridiculous effort to add tabs, saved tabs, etc. is just stupid to me. I don't want to have everything I do run in 30 tabs of a browser.  I LOVE having live tiles (NOT in FOLDERS, either!!!!) readily accessible on my Start Screen.  And I don't ever see a time when web apps are good enough, mature enough to fully support all the potential of app live tiles.  I have yet to come across a web site/web app that, when pinned to Start, does anything useful. 3.  AIs and Bots...and UWP.  I think these all tie together.  I love Cortana.  On the phone.  Cortana is somewhat useful on the tablet/PC and hardly useful at all on an Xbox (although there have probably beensome improvements since we disconnected ours out of frustration).  I've articulated elsewhere the HUGE problem with Cortana across all platforms.  I think UWP suffers some of the same issues.  They aren't truly universal, and I don't think they will be for some time.  Cortana is the AI I'm willing to embrace, if they really mature it.  Bots?  I still don't see the value in most cases.  I view bots differently from something like Cortana.  I don't engage in "conversations" with Skype bots or various other bots.  I don't find them helpful, entertaining or value-added.  Especially the "entertaining" part.  Why on earth would I engage a bot for entertainment?  I have more of a life than that.  But the value of a mature AI to me, speaking of Cortana, would be the ubiquitous, omnipresent, omni-aware nature of the thing.  Again, this is where Microsoft is FAILING in a big way and why Alexa is able to step all over Microsoft.  Amazon got people to buy in on a single piece of hardware able to connect to the IoT landscape.  Had Microsoft fully understood their own products, they'd have realized nobody needs a special device to do this. They already HAD multiple devices that SHOULD be capable of doing exactly what Alexa does, and do it more easily and conveniently. 4.  Carriers.  I've talked about this to people a lot.  The biggest roadblock to ALL of this is the carriers.  The smartphone users have LONG since complained about how carriers, in choosing what devices to support and what updates to push out, have angered most of us for some time.  They don't accept that they are simply a data pipe to us.  It is ridiculous for companies with interact with (whether retail, social, whatever) to think we all have 24/7/365 access to WIFI or that we magically have unlimited free or cheap data service.  We don't most of us do NOT live in heavy metropolitan areas where free WIFI abounds.  We live elsewhere and have to rely MOST of the time on the graces of our cell carrier.  This is big problem now. If the mindset of Microsoft, Google, Apple, Amazon and the rest is that we are inevitably moving to an always-on world, they are in for a rude awakening when most of us are stuck rationing our access due to cost of data.  Giving me free unlimited storage does little for me if I don't also have unlimited access TO that storage.  And I don't have an answer for this problem.  I absolutely favor free enterprise and capitalism.  Carriers are in it for the money, and I support that fully.  Someone will need to figure out a business model that's profitable but that removes the data roadblock--or makes it much less painful for the customer.
  • you have summed it up very nicely buddy. Amazon has Alexa, Google has assistant n MS doesnt even have cortana everywhr yet  
  • Panos seems to know what he's talking about then it comes to the manufacturing process and machining after watching the last video. I expect some at minimum decent things from hardware. I agree with the carriers.
  • NO. remove the word "carrier" from all tech related affairs, let this new category be a way to get rid of the carrier nightmare, make them irrelevant pipes as it should naturally be if it shouldn't be called a phone, then the last thing we need is for it to be sold at a damn carrier, time to change consumer's mind about that, make it so all the consumer has to do is buy the thing from whatever store that ships it to their home and setting it up be as easy as getting wifi with microsoft handling the carrier
  • How do you then make a $900 phone affordable?
  • Just get a job. Easy.
  • That isn't a great strategy for Microsoft. "Why would I get a job just to afford a Surface Phone when I can find buy one get one free iPhones for $100?!"
  • Surface phone should feel and look prestige... Body should be solid, beautiful, sturdy and metal without process being visible. You know what I mean.. Fingerprint reader embedded all over the screen, iris scanner, micro SD and Snapdragon 835 at least. 3.5" headphones jack and IP level to protect it from elements. Continuum like never before and Miracast even more fluent. Lock screen gestures and truly customizable quick action buttons. Compass without calibration needs all the time. Better VPN support (open VPN) and Windows Shares as default under everything. MobileAP should also propagate the current VPN established (even iOS10 does not do this)
  • jason i'm tired of waiting for a new a microsoft phone. if microsoft is going launch 2018, the ecosystem will be a blighted ghostown of zombied apps and pulled apps as well. my 950xl is starting to show its age. the front camera barely takes care of my needs the rear camera is good. the mobile os is still buggy as he## and not buttery smooth like it use to be, will it ever be buttery smooth again? and the phone itself design wise is tinny and cheap. 2018 launch is a slap in the face to microsoft enthusiasts. microsoft has to announce something, this has gone far enough 
  • Microsoft made a major mistake cancelling Astoria. Bad enough to cripple the whole Windows ecosystem, taking the rest of the company bar Office with it. And it will be well-deserved, for another year full of breaking promises and converting build into a show of nothing but misleading technobabble. I have an 3yr old Win-tablet, and Remix OS runs absolutely fine, much better than W10. It has all apps I need.
  • APP Gap is not the first problem. Missing features and bugs on the CoreApps (Calendar, Skype, Mail, Photo, Contacts, Movie). MS also has good Apps like (Calculator, Groove) :)
    Im lucky, that MS don't made the fault with Astoria... You can look to the crap on WhatsUp, Facebook... when porting or allow a hybrid System.
    Good things are the UI/UX, also the good connection with and over USB.
  • Of course it is. If there remains a grain of salt if a Windows device can run the latest and greatest, they will always loose in competition. IMO, Android apps should be served out of Windows store, for all devices including desktop. If Microsoft fears loosing enterprise ground, they could make it Home edition only. If there is an UWP app blasting the Android variant feature wise, I will be happily take her. Android apps cannot replicate ink and other coming features, so this will be a differentiator (that Blackberry could not deliver, btw). Contrast this with the lacklustre app support we currently see over the whole Windows ecosystem.
  • Yeah well, there's always the hope of the future. For years Windows Phone users have been told 'Well, in the coming months...' for this or that brilliant new mobile strategy, that inevitably doesn't work. The reality is that Mobile is an Apps focused game these days, and Nadella's 'strategy' to just let Windows Phone wither and die has not only seen almost all the users leave, but most of the developers as well. I really don't know how they're going to enter into the mobile space in any form now and expect potential users or developers to take them seriously.
  • The surface phone needs to be the leader for cellular pc
  • Surface phone don't matter to me like all surface devices, will any release anything I willing to pay?  My 950xl cost me $400cad($300 for you American friend), my 950 cost me $350cad.  Both NEW with dock.  that's my range, I aren't paying $1500 for a Surface phone or even $800 for a x3 consider chinese phone with SD820 going for around $250US.
  • For me, only one thing matters. That is, quality of native apps.
    .
    They say it's oneCore now. Let the Creators update release and we'll know how much gap there is between pc and mobile.
    .
    They also say focusing on Android apps doesn't mean ignoring Windows apps, of course there are different teams... Yes, just see how frequently native Windows 10 apps get updated for new features or bug fixes.
    .
    I personally feel only this gap. That still MS doesn't focus on its apps. Messaging app has bugs, calling and people apps are slow. Photos and camera apps are hell buggy. The list goes on and on.
    .
    They are focusing on getting new features to PC as soon as possible. Yes that's good. But why leave the apps like they never mattered? Why not polish them? Why not improve the existing experience?? They can't afford extra teams?
    .
    MS seems definitely high when it comes to this.
    .
    I'd say, after fans sticking to a bug OS, believing in it in the age of Android and iOS, not changing their device when there are no new ones, if w10m fails now, it'd be ALL MS's fault all their fault. No luck, no nothing. Just their fault. 100%.
  • I can't agree more man ! You put it right.
  • For many of you, 2004 will not say anything likely. For me, it was the year of the smartphone use started in ... Since then, I have never used a cell phone. At that time the options in choosing your operating system: Windows Mobile, Symbian and BlackBerry, the latter without possibility of approach in my area of residence. Come back, though. The first smartphone used by me, a Motorola MPx220 with Microsoft Smartphone 2003, I kept the loyalty of operating systems for mobile from Microsoft. Big error! After a few years, until version Windows CE 6.0 R3, everything was OK. Then followed the Windows CE 7.0, no upgrade from previous version!  Microsoft, in one stroke, giving up millions of users! It appears, then, Windows Phone 8, all without possibility of upgrade from the previous version. Millions of Microsoft users to abort! For unknown reasons, after Windows Phone 10, again, Microsoft decides to abandon mobile division. What more can you trust such a company-dealing with contempt millions of users of its products? Who assumes that Microsoft did you return via the mobile division who knows what awesome product, it spoofs bitterly ...
  • Microsoft's issue is that they are a multi billion dollar corporation that simply cannot do a Worldwide release on anything, which is kinda pathetic. If you are only giving people half a product they aren't going to buy it and I can guarantee that the Surface Phone, when it's released here will be a feature poor version of whatever comes out in the US. A year later Cortana is still nothing but a glorified search engine in Australia, it came even find a petrol station 500m from my house, not can it even navigate to a petrol station by voice. Absolutely basic stuff a voice assistant should do, it can't, and it's been like this for far too long for me to even care about any upcoming new devices. On the plus side though after a whopping six months of waiting they finally have the Microsoft Band 2 working with voice on Windows 10. So there's that.
  • This is gonna be long.  All of this is true however Windows still needs to attract the customers.  A primary device such as a phone will need to do certain things better than an iPhone or Android if anyone is going to jump ship.  Windows cant do that just yet, not with a surface or a windows phone the way they are.  Basic things that sell a phone like camera, messaging, photos, video calls need to perform like they are on a mature operating system, they cant feel like they are years behind or still in beta. Lets start with Skype - I have 3 ipads, 1 iphone and 2 windows phones in my house.  I never hear anyone trying to explain to someone on the other end how to use facetime.  Skype sometimes feels like an excercise, "tap the camera button, is your camera button on" or "i cant see you" over and over again.  Skype video conferncing is nowhere near perfect and i would say its not even close to facetime.  My 4 year old and 8 year old use facetime constantly and never has a problem.  If i call my kids on skype from the road it turns into a project and its a different experience every time and different experience on different devices. Messaging - Sorry but doing less than iphones and samsungs isnt gonna cut it.  Messaging is like the foundation of a phone and windows messaging and skype messaging are years behind.  Its as if Microsoft hasnt yet figured out the importance of text messaging.  Skype cant send multiple images or video, too many taps to start a conversation or switch to another thread, click the back button to see the option to start a conversation and its SLOW!!!!  Military time????  How about time stamps for yesterdays messages.  Do something better and different - give us the option to star or flag a message so we can search them out later.  Intergrate with contacts as if you are part of the same operating system not from a different universe. Camera - The camera on the 950 is overated and a few surveys on sites including windows central have already proved that.  How many times has my phone said Saving... after snapping a few pictures in a row and now i have to wait a minute or more before i can take another picture.  Let me try saving directly to my phone instead of the sd card, nope that doesnt help.  Photos - Can we sync photos like we did in windows phone 8, no.  We dont have a phone companion app or any way to sync photos from your pc/surface to your phone.  iPhone can sync photos with a windows PC.  One drive cant but it should have an option to keep a copy of photos or files offline, problem solved.  Give me an option to disable automatic album creation, its a mess.  Do something better or different than your competition.  Random photos in slide show, transition effects would be nice.  Step it up a notch, let us tag and rate our pictures from our phone, similar to windows live photo gallery, let us search by person from our phone. So much is wrong with the OS.  How come pictures for my contacts show up sometimes and not all the time.  Video editing needs to be improved on in a major way.  Have you seen what kids do with videos these days?  Develope the App if no else is.  How many versions of Outlook mail on my phone have been terrible at rendering the text and graphics?  I dont even know if the current version of Outlook displays my messages properly, its been back and forth for 5 years now. If i werent a big fan of One Drive, Groove and office on the web i would have gone to the Pixel but still holding out, hoping continuum turns into something good.  I want an ecosystem that fits nicely with my phone and PC/surface but dont feel like sacrificing anymore.
  • Thumbs up
  • WOW !! THIS MAN. THIS is what we should copy and paste into the feedback hub and submit.
  • Yeah! Sure! "Surfrace phone will launch when it's ready" and others will eat the market share by that time.  
  • Microsoft should just buy Cyanogen and make an android based Windows Phone.
  • It's dead, Jim. http://www.gizbot.com/mobile/features/rise-death-cyanogen-os-037224.html
  • Great article Jason, thank you. For those of us that are open minded it helps to clarify the defining path MS is taking. I am excited about the future because the alternative ecosystems are old and boring. My 950 works great and I know 2017 will be a bridge to better things. Keep the articles coming!
  • Thanks TgeelB. Glad it helped!🙂 I'm also excited about what MS has coming. Hopefully it'll really shake things up!🙂
  • I wonder if MS will ever get the "phone" part right while working on their "on beyond the curve". The Phone/Contacts clump seems designed by young programmers who text their Grandma on her 80th birthday and have no idea what a real phonebook is.
  • I am a huge windows phone fan, but when my last windows phone (Lumia 925) broke and I had to get a new phone I was basically forced to android because there was nothing available for Tmobile at the time. I have wanted to come back ever since but the platform seems to be on the gradual slide to oblivion and there just isn't anything appealing enough yet to justify spending several hundred dollars to switch back when my current phone still works. I keep praying that there will be some sort of spark to bring the platform back to life and give me reason to come back but I think any enthusiasm I have for the platform will be dead by 2018.  
  • Wait a minute... 'most mobile phone ever'... Maybe it can walk?
  • Let's follow the format of the article: The "plan for recovery and success" doesn't really offer any proof of one. It doesn't really do anything, but drop some words with old article links that go nowhere, when it comes to making a point. There's been so little in the way of meeting those quoted goals that it reads more as "here is where MS continues to fail" than anything. When was the last time Continuum showed growth? Did it show ANY after it launched? Given the suggestion we wait until an unpromised, unknown point in 2018, telling us "something might get better, but it will take at least 2.5 years of waiting, with no promise anything actually changes," is a bad plan to succeed. Now, about those ducks... Apps: Microsoft had better hope they die, because they've failed for SIX YEARS (and change) at making apps a focus of their platform. Well, I should say that they've failed to get developers to do it. The app situation in 2017 honestly feels no better than it did when W10M launched, maybe not even since WP7 or WP8 did--depending on what you do on your phone. If we're putting forth apps as a pillar for success, MS has given us 6 years of evidence to say we shouldn't bother hoping. AI and Bots: I didn't see an initial implementation of bots that I found exciting. HoloLens, that got me stoked. Even W10M did, to some extent (shame on me, given I've now been fooled about 4 times, I guess). Bots tie into something I've hated since it started--Cortana--and have totally failed to show me something cool or interesting. Competing with Echo, though something I would be personally against, would at least show a use case we know works where MS has the platform to make a good product. I don't see bots in that way. Partnerships: Microsoft has been horrible at this, IMO. The HP Elite was a disastrous launch, given they didn't bother finishing the phone before it hit shelves. The Idol didn't seem to draw any major attention either, and giving people a couple of wildly different options (off-contract, high-dollar and low-end, barely available) misses probably 99.9% of the market. The scope is seemingly non-existent. I wouldn't mind another option for a W10M device, but making me pay $700-800 upfront for a phone that launched fundamentally broken and unfinished is a joke. None of it was good. The only partnership that ever showed real promise in mobile was Nokia, and Microsoft opted to put a nuclear bomb into any hope that provided when they bought and gutted Nokia talent, then threw all notion of quality or consistency into a flaming dumpster. On the PC side, it's been fine, I guess. They release a high-dollar product and watch the other OEMs copy their concepts. It works to slow the bleeding of PC sales, but doesn't offer long-term optimism. UWP: For starters, the fact you go straight to Redstone 3 as a source of progress is an indication that I shouldn't bother having hope. That thing's been speculated as a 2018 release from a company that, at its last attempt to do a big push, split the update in half and gave mobile the shaft (and we seem to be getting that in RS2 now as well). Regardless, the UWP is a concept I was all for. It's not working, though. They still can't get devs to buy in to a platform that supports their mobile efforts. W10A feels less like unification for convenience and more like unification of desperation. I read it as a hope that the OS can just make apps happen through context, since devs couldn't do an extra 5 minutes of work and publish stuff to mobile as well for nearly free. If MS had tried this 2 years ago, I'd say it was smart. Now, I just don't think I care. I have little interset in theory from this compant, becuase no theory with mobile has gone over well. Results would be a pleasant surprise from MS. Mindshare: Like apps, let's pray this isn't a real key. This is arguably the WORST part of Microsoft's game. You say, "Windows 10 on ARM and the potential deluge of cellular PCs OEM partners will bring to the market will be poised to do just that beginning late 2017." That reads as a sentence that establishes "mindshare" as impossible. Microsoft isn't well-known in mobile. However, most who know them will see that approach the way I do: "really? They're rebooting it AGAIN?!" Why would the people watching this promise get broken for 6 years have faith in that? I got a 950 in late-2015 to prep for a push that was expected NOW (well, in the next couple of months). Telling me that's now going to take another 12-18 months is laughable. I'm about as diehard as it gets (while still managing objective thought and free will), and I'm just tired of it. I've been on the platform since the 920, and got multiple people onto it even earlier (I sold a couple of people on WP7, and many more on WP8). You can't rationally defend Microsoft's outright abuse of their customer base with "just wait for the next one." I'm a Cubs fan, and I had to live that. I could do it just fine. I could see the light, especially the last 3-5 years. In Microsoft's case, that was W10M. I saw promise. I now get this news of "actually, you get nothing we hyped 2017 for, enjoy." The Stockholm Syndrome's simply losing its grasp after the repeated examples of anti-consumer practices. Killing games and devs and Kinect (which they forced us to buy) and phones and operating systems isn't progress, it's a disaster. It's one I can't defend anymore. I mean, I was totally fine with W10M until this recent "Surface Phone: Coming 2018" junk. The 950 was a mediocre product I defended heartily for months. I can't do that anymore, I'm just lying to myself. Telling me to keep that for TWICE AS LONG as my agreement? Puh-lease. If there isn't a carrier-available (give me a minute on that) W10M device at MWC or something around that from Microsoft, I'm going to LG, I guess. Carriers: Shoot, and I just called MINDSHARE the worst thing in the MS stable. Well, let's retract that right here. Carrier relationships with MS have been laughably bad, too. Start with Kin, how did that go? Microsoft made a mess with Verizon, and the effects seem to still be in-place to this day. AT&T made every effort to help, but MS did a terrible job with that. Sprint wouldn't bother, not that anyone cares about that mess. Lastly, T-Mobile gave a bit of support, but when you've got the CEO openly saying "we'd take the 950," and it doesn't happen, it tells me MS has no ability to work with carriers. That, and the 950 XL's lack of availability, should have told me to not bother with W10M, I suppose. Nokia did well with carriers, the 900 and 920 were arguably very successful, to me. The follow-up? Microsoft released that junk 830 and skipped a flagship for a couple of years. Then, we got the 930, and MS shafted AT&T--the only carrier to give them good support previously. Instead, MS goes to Verizon, who selfishly and senselessly rebrands the 930 to "ICON," which then is met with a total lack of marketing or employee training (watching my sister know more about the person selling the device--he didn't even grab the right phone when she asked for it). That left AT&T users like myself hosed, unable to upgrade from my 920 for 3 years. Then, we get to the 950--FINALLY. The XL isn't on AT&T at all, that's stupid. To boot, the overpriced 950 gets a $50 markup on AT&T, somehow more stupid. That I paid more for the 950 and Dock than buying the XL and a Dock cost is just asinine. Then, the Elite gets no carrier love, and the Idol gets a little from T-Mobile, but doesn't really matter. Carrier relationships with MS and mobile have been bad since about 2013. Releasing the 830 as a "flagship" and sending the 930 to Verizon was the death knell there, I'd say. Then you get to your ecosystem discussion. Does it matter? If you spend 2017 chasing the last of your faithful customers away because you are too inept to get hardware ready in TWO YEARS, what's the quality of the ecosystem matter? That might help with everything else, but for mobile, what you're trying to defend in this article, it's plain bad. As I've said before, this plan of skipping 2017--after skipping 2016 with a big promise for 2017--isn't just disappointing to me. It's downright infuriating. It's not just I can't get a phone, so I'll wait," like I did with the 920. No, I'll go somewhere else.
  • Thanks for the input Keith. I hear and understand the frustration. This article simply identifies what I believe Microsoft's strategy is(I don't work for them or get ANY type of benefits from them in as a result of my writers role with WC🙂). I just write what I see. This purpose of this piece was to help put the Surface phone into the broader ecosystem context. The phone, alone, as we all know can save the platform. This piece highlights that the phone can't even succeed on it's own. The ecosystem that MS is working on (though not seeing the type of progress or success at the pace many would like) has to be in place. That's what this piece was about. Highlighting a reality that it's bigger than the phone. Now I'm a Windows phone fan just like most people here and I helped convert I believe about 15 people in my circle to Windows phone. Most of them no longer use the platform for various reasons and like most of you I can't comfortably recommend the platform in a general sense to individuals who are not fans at this stage. I'd have to really inquire what their use of a smartphone would be for etc, to ensure that certain apps they may want are not something they'd miss for instance. At any rate, Microsoft can't just put a superphone out there without the rest of the ecosystem being in place as we can all agree. Should they be further along in some areas? Could they have made better choices and investments' of time and resources to have been further ahead in some critical areas? The answers to these questions is likely, "Yes." But even with that, unfortunately we're still left with where we are: We're in 2017 with an ecosystem that is not yet ready to make a Surface phone a winner, a public profession that WM is enterprise-focused despite partners like Alcatel with consumer-focused hardware, an app situation that didn't get the attention from App Bridges it needed in 2016, questionable carrier relationships, progress with AI and Bots but an industry that is competetive in that area and has yet to shift to an intelligent app ecy and more. That's why this piece is relevant. These areas need to be addressed this year as it looks like MS is about to bring a Surface phone to bear, particularly with what I envision it will be as an ultramobile PC with telephony capabilities. Windows on ARM and cellular PCs seem to be the precursor to the Surface phone, as Windows on ARM will eventually come to "phone." They're projecting cellular PCs toward the end of 2017. Windows on ARM on phone hasn't been announced - yet. Surface phone is likely 2018, given the time table. Microsoft has a lot of work to do get the foundation solid. This piece highlights where that work has to be done. Hopefully, they will succeed. Thanks again for the input👍🏿
  • Jason Ward, good writing, I have always enjoyed your writing and that of Daniel R. I am possibly biased as a windows Fan, especially windows phone. I still find my 950xl an intriguing and very good phone, for my everyday use case, I truly am not missing anything. I am on Hope lane as many diehard fans who could not phantom leaving windows phone, when I see what they have done hardware wise to bring windows 10 to life showing OEM the way is nothing short of spectacular - Surface pro, HoloLens, Surface Book, Surface Studio, Surface Dial, and their unrelenting effort in putting powerful cloud apps out there on any platform was a strategic take, that is why I believe they have plans for new category definition for windows phone as you have stated. So, I will use the fair word that I am very hopeful of these things coming to fruition. One thing is clear for me though, I am windows phone to stay, I am not arguing it is better than iPhone or Androids, absolutely not, it's simply because I just love it.
  • Windows Phone/Mobile is dead. If the Surface "Phone" is released, it isn't going to be running Windows Mobile and it sounds like it isn't going to be a phone either. You are dedicated to a platform that even Microsoft has forgotten about. It will be dead by the end of the year if it can even be considered alive today!
  • Thanks for the support asouyemi! I enjoy writing for the community and beyond!😉 Windows is a great platform, I hoping the UWP succeeds across the board and am glad to be part of the "scribes🙂" privileged to chronicle this great time in tech history and to communicate with a such a passionate community!
  • For all of you whiners, no one is forcing you to stay on windows mobile.  It's proven and on paper that IOS and android have surpassed Windows in sales, and popularity.  Every single one of you whining about "This is my last windows phone," "My last microsoft phone" Jesus, just GTFO.  Microsoft has been running windows mobile since version 1, we are on version 10, and it's popularity was never #1.  Even that ****** Motorola Razr flip phones, and Nokia candy bar phones back in the day were more popular than Windows Mobile 5.0.  WIndows mobile is here to stay, not going away because it is "losing" a battle.  As long as it can make calls, texts, check emails, -- the main important things in mobile, its here to stay.  Need Snapchat?  Move on, and get an android.  Once again, whiners, gtfo.   With or without you, even with .001% market share, Windows Mobile is here to stay.  
  • Sorry, even if it was the BEST phone in the world as specs go, most memory, nicest display and fastest CPU with the sleakest design, it's not going to help. You need a phone but, you also need the support behind it, and no I dont mean phone updates. Microsoft has done nothing to promote Windows Phone/Windows 10 Mobile for years now. NO new apps (apps are going away), no new commericals, No public image on it, most carriers have a poor selection if not just low end models. Take a look what Windows Phone goes against for a second. Android, new models all the time, Plenty of TV play by some OEMS and even the creator, apps are all over the place, even fair support (carrier dependant) on year or 2 old models. Apple ? Same thing new models every year, very high level of support and some of the best apps ever made, the reference standard. Look at what Microsoft has done in the last 2-3 years and compare it to the others... Would dump $500+ into a new phone that might not even be around in 2-3 years ? I was one excited about a possable Surface phone but, after model after model....it's comming, it's comming from Microsoft and it never came and we are still waiting for it, I had no choce but to move on. Nice OS too bad Microsoft did a REALLY bad job marketing it and it was a complete failure because of it..
  • Marketing is dead when it comes to phones. You move over to one of a myriad of mobile focused websites, comparing and testing the hell out of nearly any phone. And under Windows Phone, there always was the line: nice system, efficient as hell, but not differentiation and no apps.
  • Waiting until 2018 to ship a SP is so beyond utterly ridiculous, I cannot fathom any possibility for MS regaining any meaningful global smartphone market share. And let me be clear, it is even more ridiculous for MS to think they can do this based almost solely on a business first / only strategy. At the beginning of 2017, MS has zero consumer smartphone products and no OEMs doing anything in the consumer space. FACT: MS cannot grow its smartphone business without having a thriving, growing consumer base. This embrace and extend mentality using their apps on the two dominant platforms will not bring customers over to the Surface phone which would have to be their end-game goal for regrowing smartphone market share. The only hope is for MS to take the Samsung approach which is to build a broad portfolio of smartphones under Galaxy Brand. Samsung has quality Galaxy phones that are nearly free all the way up to their high-end models. Unfortunately, we'll be lucky to get three SP models, with two being the more likely number. x86 on ARM and Continuum will be great for attracting a relatively small number of business users to a SP line, relative to the total smartphone market. But, Joe Consumer cares nothing about these technologies. Again, you can't have a seat at the mobile table in the next 5-10 years without a thriving smartphone business.
  • Microsoft is no longer trying to compete in the smartphone market. They are waiting for the "next big thing". This website has been reporting that for a while now.
  • Yup!!
  • and the next big things is just an excuse. but you already know that :)
  • Definitely. The chance that Microsoft will unveil the "big thing" is very low. It will be years before technology is ready for the next revolution. Microsoft isn't heavy in the hardware side and certainly not in display technology. Who knows what they can do now to not get pushed into enterprise irrelevance.
  • Pretty simple.. allow it to run full windows and it is a game changer
  • The problem of course is, that there will be no such thing for another decade (the imploding wearable market was subject to major Verge post), and retrenching means becoming obsolete.
  • how will it be a gamechanger, it will still be lacking developer interest.
  • I used my n95 for 3 years, N8 for four years...930 - think it will last for 5 year....till the next phone?
  • I haven't seen any mention of the fact that if a Surface Phone can run all Win32 programs, then it can run BlueStacks, which allows you to download any app from the Google Play store. I run all kinds of Play Store apps on my computer, so that will open up not only all the Win32 legacy programs/apps, but it will open up all of Google's apps, and then you throw in the iOS Bridge and port over iPhone's apps... and the app gap is history! (Although it may open an app gap between all that the Surface Phone has and those other "smart"phones.)
  • So you think apps running in an emulator that is running in an emulator that is running in full Windows on a low performance ARM chip is going to be a good experience? That is assuming they will even let you run x86 when this mythical device isn't docked!
  • yeah. surface phone. eleanor. the mythical unicorn. not holding my breath.
  • Users want apps!! not continuum, not bots! APPS! no android or ios user will ever switch to a surface phone if the app store is in the same state, and MS continues to deliver the same mediocre quality in the OS: lag, battery hog, slow, apps crashing.
  • Project Astoria was the only remaining right thing MS would do and Androids apps would work in WP with it. But why MS cancelled it? Nobody knows, just like scalebound, just so... I want to know who is the guy gets that kind on decisions and ruins everything. It's like someone doing this just to destroy MS. Without apss, surface phone will be just another failure.
  • They want to protect their enterprise development. If developing Android apps for Windows becomes the norm, the development stack would possibly move to Android. The problem with this idea is, that smartphones and even the Home edition of desktop Windows are hardly business focused.
  • "Putting all their ducks in a row"   Man I read that so wrong. :-D
  • Did you just quote YOURSELF multiple times?
  • A Surface Phone will ONLY succeed, if it is capable of running all Android Apps. W10Mobile is dead. Move on. The world has, and the future of mobile is Android and iOS.
  • Jason btw how are your frnds from whartonbooks doing.
  • The announcement of WOA killed their plans. No point creating a Windows phone today as the platform is dead.
  • All I hope for is to not have to buy Android or iOS device.
  • It should not be advertised as the business smartphone.
  • I've said this back when the new CEO walked in the door, we are too far behind in mobile, and getting farther away. IMHO, there was NOT be a phone based on Surface, period. Do I want to see MS continue in mobile?  Absolutely. Mainly because this platform was "born secure". That is the best thing it has going for it. However, like the BetaMax (Born in 1975) was a much better platform than the VCR (Born in 1956) , being late to the game has a cost.  BetaMax stood down assuming people would soon see but other factors like price and a stagnation cost them. No different with a stagnant Steve Balmer who stood by and let Windows Mobile wither on the vine. Then to shut people up, gave us Kin and Kin II. And Verizon still won't talk to us.  I'm grateful we haven't quit development on mobile but nothing I've heard officially says "Surface Phone".  I wish someone would just ask MS to answer the question and quit dragging this out.
  • I always say that I just want Firefox on Windows phone where I be able to make it the default browser. That's all missing for me. Can't Microsoft arrange for some kind of cooperation (partnership) with Mozilla?!
  • I always say that I just want Firefox on Windows phone where I be able to make it the default browser. That's all missing for me. Can't Microsoft arrange for some kind of cooperation (partnership) with Mozilla?!
  • really I am waiting for this type of Phone no..no I can not say phone this is PC
  • What Surface Phone? http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/26/technology/bill-gates-android-phone/inde...