When will we get a Snapdragon 845 for an Always Connected Windows 10 PC? #AskDanWindows 44

I'm back with another audience-driven episode of #AskDanWindows!

On this week's episode of #AskDanWindows I answer questions does it makes sense to install Windows 10 S, when are Snapdragon 845 PCs coming and is there any hope for a smaller Windows tablet?

Grab a coffee an tune in.

Audience questions for Episode 44

  • Does it make sense for a non-pro-user to install Windows 10S on an older laptop instead of regular versions? @madapplepi
  • When can we expect Snapdragon 845 based Windows 10 always connected pc's ? -dharma teja1
  • With the new Windows on ARM is there any hope for small form factor Windows PC to take notes and read some comics? - @jpspiderman Thanks to everyone for the questions!

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Daniel Rubino

Daniel Rubino is the Editor-in-chief of Windows Central, head reviewer, podcast co-host, and analyst. He has been covering Microsoft since 2007 when this site was called WMExperts (and later Windows Phone Central). His interests include Windows, laptops, next-gen computing, and for some reason, watches. Before all this tech stuff, he worked on a Ph.D. in linguistics, watched people sleep (for medical purposes!), and ran the projectors at movie theaters because it was fun.

  • My always connected devices are an Android phone and 8 inch Android tablet. Both would of been replaced if there was a Windows alternative. If it was not for my SP4 I would most likely not have any portable Windows device's. Everything I enjoyed about windows has slowly been taken away from the platform.
  • Windows 10 Polaris is Windows 10 Lean as leaked yesterday?
  • Dan, it's not ready yet.. lacking 64bit support which is still a required feature and i doubt Microsoft would debut a surface line product with 32bit emulation support only; so the only expectation i have right now is good emulation optimization and hopefully 64bit support ASAP but quality vs speed I'd lean for quality; so as graceful it should be, the push towards 64bit emulation in the best possible performance should be not too late nor too early, maybe after that i'd expect to see one of these ARM based always connected Surface devices but right now.. it would be a risk without 64bit support.
  • I agree with you 💯
  • There is no lacking 64 bit support, only lacking x64 emulation. And x64 emulation makes no sense at all - Assuming an application needs 64 bits it better be ARM64 without any emulation.
    The current x86 emulation is as good as it gets.
  • x64 is about 10% faster than x86 with the same specs. Not to mention, *everything* either is x64 today or switches to x64 all the time. This is wasted potential and just Microsoft shooting itself in the foot as usual.
  • You`ll waste much more potential if you allow x64 apps to run on ARM devices. Emulation is around 3+ times slower than native. If you introduce x64 emulation there is literally no incentive for developers to press the f.... ARM64 compile button.
    I say it again, if an application requires 64 bit it better be 64 bit native ARM.
  • Like Cruncher04 said, if a app/game needs 64bit support, it's better to avoid x64 emulation (slower than x32), recompile to ARM64 and run it with no emulation is the better approach.
  • Because you hit the same chicken-egg situation as UWP apps. Developers don't have any incentive to recompile for ARM64 for the handful of users with these devices and there won't be more of these devices if there aren't more developers compiling for them. Emulation allows for a transition period for the devices to gain traction. Then there'll hopefully be enough users to encourage optimized versions.
  • No, this is much different. UWP is a complete new API where the developer have to write their application for. So if they have an Android app they have to rewrite large portions of the code in order to create an UWP app - big effort.
    However an existing WIN32 App in many cases just have to be recompiled for ARM64, which is as simple as pressing a button. No code changes required at all.
  • It isn't supposed to have any emulation support at launch according to rumors. A future update is supposed to bring emulation to Andromeda.
  • It will add ARM64 support, not x64
  • > It isn't supposed to have any emulation at launch sure... totally MAKE SENSE!!
  • Surface Andromeda pocket PC and phone will have snapdragon 845 and x64 emulation promised by summer 2019. It makes sense that it should be the first WoA device with that SoC.
  • Who was it that promised that to you?
  • That is the rumor and has been the rumor for a while now. It won't have emulation at launch, it will come with an update in 2019.
  • I stand corrected, the original info from WC was not quite correct...x64 programs will need to be recompiled for ARM64 https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/155961/clarifying-microsofts...
  • Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't x64 adobe creative suite full version technically impossible to recompile to ARM64? If so, disappointing, but I have SP4 for that, and will still buy Andromeda.
  • Interesting question about comics. Seems to me that yes a foldable, pocketable, tablet 1st/phone 2nd 2-in-1 would be the perfect device for readers of every genre, including comics. Marketing is something MS does very poorly. So I hope they don't miss this boat. People who love to read are definitely a demographic for MS to target with an Andromeda form factor, and could lead to big things if played right. Just look at the history of a little online bookstore called Amazon...
  • @Dan: The HP store is getting about one charge Envy X2 per week. You just have to be fast pressing the buy-button. I am screening the HP store website for the last 4 weeks and finally was able to get one.
  • Hopefully Along with s845 Microsoft also improve x86 app compatibility and emulation speed.
    They are bringing 64bit apps support but they didn't clarified whether it's uwp only or x86 emulation as well. On the other hand there is no side by side comparison between atom powered surface 3 and hp envy x2 on the web which would give us clear idea about Windows on arm and it's future performance expectations.
  • Why do some users including the windowscentral staff do not understand, that Windows on ARM fully support 64 bit already? In fact 64 bit application are the only native supported applications. All 32 bit application require a WoW layer on Windows for ARM. Therefore on Windows for ARM you have 3 program folders: "Program Files" for 64 bit native, "Program Files (x86)" for 32 bit emulated using WoW, and "Program Files (ARM)" for 32 bit native. using WoW. Likewise you have 3 folders for system DLLs.
    There are no restriction to UWP only whatsoever - all 3 above targets are available for UWP and desktop apps. The only current restriction is that the store does not accept ARM64 UWP apps yet.
    Regarding performance the Snapdragon 835 (which includes HP Envy X2) has about 2xCPU performance and 3xGPU performance compared to the Atoms used on Surface 3 when running native apps.
  • In October 2017, I had the opportunity to meet a few software engineers working at Microsoft on Windows. They had a very clear opinion about Windows on ARM, which they were not shy to voice: That Windows on ARM is a strategic move on Microsoft's part to put pressure on Intel to continue improving the energy draw of their processors. Their expectation was that Intel would get their act together and then the Windows on ARM devices would go away again.
  • Intel has been stuck on 14nm for 5 years. They are improving efficiency, but way too slowly. AMD is kicking them in all kinds of ways
  • All the other sites received WoA machines and were in the process of reviewing them before they suddenly went silent on them. Now you claim to not be able to get one. Sounds more like Microsoft wants everyone to wait for RS4 before reviewing them since initial reviews have been rough on them.
  • Holy moly there's such confusion and misinformation on the 64Bit & 64bit emulation issues the topics deserve a definitive and authoritative dedicated article sourced and confirmed by Microsoft.
    Oh yeah, Internet memes, lies, and tall tales never die. Well there's always another Microsoft technology reboot, maybe the third time down the ARM wormhole will turn out better.
  • Windows 10S is not lighter as it pretty much is the same installation, but still, some tests shows that it can be slightly faster. Also, as there is no registry and such, W10S could remain cleaner and faster over time. As it prevents Win32 executables one is also less prone to malware.
  • I would've really had like to have seen MS release that Surface Mini way back when I believe they launched Surface 3. But Nutella 'X'd that one. Hopefully Panos will try again to bring it to market since he's got some new powuhz. Really hard to find a good windows tablet in an 8" form factor that supports pen
  • Windows S was never meant for mass consumers. It was meant for the IT education space.
  • Also enterprises and cooperates.
  • Microsoft marketing is not meant for consumers. They are marketing to the OEM's. Everyone is already always connected. MS is trying to get there OEM's to make more versatile products. MS always makes impressive products to demonstrate the tech and yes they are not cheap costing devices. Not meant to be. All of these different flavors of the OS is no different than before. These are options for the OEM's. Let them navigate the psycho pool of install options. Its up to the consumer to tell the OEM's (HP, DELL, LENOVO, ASUS, etc) hey 'Xyz' product sucks stop making it. Apple makes sucky stuff all the time nobody ******* this much to them. They just keep slappin down thousands of bucks on systems that users end up running Parallels on.
  • wrong post, deleted
  • Snap this, Snap that. MS is really trying to make it not matter. I wanna know when the new platform drops will it actually be able to run on the WinRT ARM devices of old. That would be interesting.
  • Why do you want to run a full Win10 on a outta support WinRT ARM of old?
  • We need this http://www.fmworld.net/biz/tablet/1708/v567p/
    but with ARM cpu + e-sim!!! This is the same old Win10 we have today so the UI, button size and all that are not tweaked for small screen but yeah, it's getting there. It's hard to imagine no OEM wants to try this route (cause that's what ARM was and good at. The larger the resolution, the more CPU, the more power, the more heat)
  • eSim is on hold: https://www.engadget.com/2018/04/21/gsma-puts-esim-on-hold-due-to-us-inv...