Canadian carriers reportedly won't sell the Lumia 950 or Lumia 950 XL

If the carriers choose not to pick it up, all Microsoft can do is offer it directly from them unlocked. (which they are)  What more can they do?

You know what they can do? Focus more on the European market, where there marketshare is just under that of IOS....

^^^ THIS! I'm not Italian, but I've been expecting MS to have a big event in Rome or Milano. Guess I'm just delusional, but their current stronger position in Europe deserves a push before it slips away

Yea I know right... WP has 3% of 300 mill people in America and has 10% (anywhere from 6-16%) of 900 million people in Europe... Absolutely no love. The 930 for eg was released in Ireland 3 solid months after if got to the UK. Never mind that Microsoft has 2 data centers here with 2 more planned and their European HQ and Marketing HQ are here... No love. I can guarantee that I wont see the 950 or XL before Xmas. Just like their Surface Pro 4 isn't pre-orderable here yet... I also think the lack of a Nokia name is doing horrendous damage in Europe. The simpler people in Europe walk into a shop with a what they are prepaired to spend on a phone. They demand a Nokia. They will not listen to reason...They leave with a Nokia.... Sales person is crying in the corner after he had to give him his 950 he ordered off the web, telling him "its technicly a Nokia" for fear of dieing....

Microsoft's offer is too segmented in Europe because of many languages and as a result we have tens of versions of phone software for each country. That has to be a hell to maintain and is totally unnecessary. Everyone can read English. Moreover, they should enable Cortana in English or any available language in all regions, because the lack of it really hinders the product otherwise. I had to change the region in order to have Cortana and that is just stupid becuse that also affects the store - it's either the store or cortana for me. Stupid, stupid. Yes, European market needs more love.

If WPs become popular in rest of the world then north America will take a notice of it. MS shd concentrate on Europe, India and China.

Microsoft CREATED the situation where nobody wants to carry Windows phone. They did this by making it lower priority even than Android out iPhone. The death of Windows mobile is 100% on Microsoft's hands.

How come it has 10% of the market in the five biggest European markets?

In Canada I wish it was that big.  I love my Nokia 920, but this sucks.  I was waiting and waiting, if no carrier picks it up, then I need to look at something else, $749.00 is a little steep.  Hopefully Microsoft will put together the same type of thing Apple is doing and maybe then I will.  I will letting Rogers know of my disappointment, that is all I can do.

You know you can just go online and buy it from the site, right?

Yes but those of us who were planning a subsidized phone under a renewal are screwed.  I am not paying $1000 after taxes for a bloody phone.

I do this all the time in Australia. Get the best reselling phonefrom on the plan you want from your carrier (usually latest Galaxy or iPhone). Sell on eBay/craigslist or where ever. Use funds to buy Lumia outright. I usually find I have a few extra dollars as well.

True...... That's why I just bought a Harley Davidson... It feels good to belong to a trusted, well known, respected, brand for a change... Lol.

The marketing world is missing out on a large pool of geniuses, because they are not looking on windows central where apparently they all hang out to discuss corporate strategies and how companies should run their businesses.  Mind you, none of these said individuals have successful companies of their own.  But they can damn sure tell you how to make yours successful. /s

Don't be too sarcastic. I am not a marketing genius but I know very well what bothers me in Windows Phone and I am voicing my opinion, which is what others are doing too.

Getting Walmart to stock it isn't the same as selling it to a carrier...walmart isn't insisting on updating and maintaining the phone...if you haven't understood that part of the business for so long, maybe you should rethink before you decide to criticize...it's why Lumia thrives in countries like India and is a disaster in the US...your countries have carriers giving unfair advantages to only the established brands while here everything is a choice...we should always be the customer, the damn network operators.

IPhone started as nothing, but came to att with the same caveats as what you state, then everyone else wanted to carry the iPhone because people switched for it....so we admit apple is a better negotiator or MS really only knows how to sell Office and Windows (and now cloud) or it's too late because no one will switch for a WP? All those things have in common MS failures.

Go to sleep! Or get a iPhone Posted via the Windows Central App for Android

I think the situation here is a little different. The iPhone was basically the dawn of the mobile phone as we know it. It introduced apps and set the template for how phones are used these days. There was nothing like it when it was announced and the hype was immense, everyone wanted one after the announcement because it was so different to anything available at that time.  These new phones from Microsoft are not game changers, but they are supposed to be the rebirth of the Windows Phone I guess you'd say. Although Nokia's hardware and the OS have been solid in the last few years, Microsoft do themselves no favours in concentrating on certain markets rather than others. At least with Android and iOS the key main features that make the OS what it is are available world wide, with Windows Phone that is not that case. I used to have a Lumia 820 and here in New Zealand we had none of the key features of Windows Phone available. Cortana is non existent and will most likely never be released here and even things like Mxed Radio are nowhere to be seen. There's never any marketing or advertising when a new Windows Phone is released and the ones that are available sit in the budget bin area of carrier stores because no one gives a sh*t about them and they don't sell unless they're heavily discounted.  I truly believe that Microsoft only have themselves to blame for this situation. They could have easily been as big as Apple or Samsung if they had of given a sh*t about promoting their products and showing the world what they could do. I honestly don't think these new phones will turn that slum around. It's far too little too late and the fact that they're pretty boring looking devices will not make them stand out in the crowd of current devices that people have to choose from in stores. I wouldn't be surprised if these are the last handsets we see from Microsoft. I just hope that Nokia can somehow be reborn and start producing stellar handsets again with another OS on-board. 

Actually, this is not true. Blackberry already had a platform that allowed users to have apps on their phone to do "mundane" things that people now seem to be unable to live with like instagram and the kardasian app. Given that the platform was purely aimed at the business market, apple saw the opportunity to try their fortunes with the consumer market and they were successful. As usual, they didn't invent anything new, they just took an idea and brought it to the masses. One has to remember that back when Blackberry introduced their smart phones people would throw a fit if the phone included in their plan wasn't free or more than $50. Paying $100, $200, or $250 was unthinkable to most people. The Nokia 6160 and Motorola StarTech digital were the phones commanding that "huge" premium at the time. You can thank apple for changing the minds of consumers to the point where they are content paying $400 for a phone on a contract, or even for being OK with the idea of "leasing" their phone. 

Agreed. Yes Blackberry did it first but Blackberries have always been targeted as business user phones but like you said, Apple put it in the form of an everyday user's phone. I think my point is that Apple and Android know their market and know how to sell their devices well. I don't know who Microsoft's market is. They spent the majority of last year and this year targeting budget minded emerging markets and now all of a sudden they release these top end devices which they think will be more for business minded people. I think people are confused so they stick with what they know and what the masses buy and that is iPhones and Samsung devices.

True. Many mobile developers come from my country and speak good English, but if they choose local region in windows 10 or windows phone, they don't get cortana and the store doesn't list apps for the u.s. market. So their experience with windows suffers and the consequences are dire - not many of them will choose to develop for WP. It felt like a slap in the face when I found out that I am a third class people from a third world country and that all shiny gimmicks which were presented at The Event won't be coming to my country. Because who is going to bother and maintain cortana for a nation of 8 million people? Multiply that by 10, for every small country in europe. MS need to change that and make us feel equally important as the US market.

Apple came out when majority of the people had flip phones and basic "smart" phones. When thier contracts etc, are ending and they went to iPhone, before android was ever a thing, and in lacl of advanced devices and iPhone on other carriers android began to rise. Microsoft came out after almost everyone switched and got used to thier new devices. And when no one pushed them or didn't down play them for ijunks it went no where. No one can come out now and do that, unless its an absolute game changer.

This is the thing, Apple had an advantage, because there wasn't a smartphone on the market like iPhone. Apple already had a vast following with their iPods. Then comes along the iPhone that lets you do everything the iPod does and you can make calls. At this point, MS understands that their efforts to make a significant dent in the current iPhone and Android market is a serious uphill battle. People want to call WP half baked, but in actuality, if the same apps were available on WP as they are on iPhone and Android, most people would likely not have an issue with WP. The other thing to consider is the fact that many people are vested in iPhone. They buy their music and videos from Apple, and other content. The only thing MS can do at this point is strengthen their services, which they have been doing. No other OS offers what MS offers in services that are as rich. Now, in my opinion, I think they should focus on marketing the benefits of the new Lumia to businesses. I believe, if they do that and do it well that might help to gain more notoriety with the general public. The more businesses that utilize Lumia, the more likely people will be open to it. Enterprise is where they are strong, enterprise is where they might have a chance.

Nope. Sorry. It's the carrier's fault here, and always has been. They've done nothing to support, or promote WP up here. Nothing. Simply stocking it doesn't count. There's nothing MS can, or could, do about it.

Exactly! For any WP that the carriers here decided to actually carry over the years there was NO advertising or marketing of the product. Never seen in a commercial or even signs at the store. However blackberry with less market share than WP has had storefront marketing as long as I can remember. The BIG difference this time around is that we can at least buy these devices directly from Microsoft unlike previous models we missed out on.

Bullshit.

They've no reason to support or promote WP

Exactly. Why would a carrier care what phone or operating system you used. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android

I've seen no WP adds here in Canada, just buy spots up on tv like apple does how had is that. Honestly the carriers have nothing to work with to sell people on WP here in Canada. It sucks but its the truth.

Except if WalMart wants you to cripple your product and make it harder to sell while they in turn put it in a back corner hidden. Yeah, I would skip them and sell direct too.

And they do that, and you can sue or go to other storefronts. It is really hard to break into that, but not impossible. You have to make it worthwhile for Walmart or any store front. ROI per sqft has to be at a certain level or they'll get another product. MS hasn't made it worthwhile. Plain and simple.

The carrier is choosing to not sell the phone. That's the carrier making the choice, not Microsoft.

Um... Because MS has not made it worth the carriers time in the past.
...anyway it's business. Doesn't seem like most of you get it.
... But if it's a big deal all of you need to switch to att in the states or buy it unlocked. The truth will be in the sales figures in Jan. If the fans really want it. Because we got everything we asked for.

Right, thats a good solution.  Us Canadians can just switch to ATT, problem solved.  Oh wait, except ATT is in the US not in Canada so we cannot switch to them.  Hmmm.  

At least you can drive to the U.S. and order from Amazon. While us poor Yurpeans have to suffer second class service because no cortana in local tribe's language.

Kind of a sweeping statement. With French, German, Italian, Spanish, and English, more than half the population of the EU is covered. Not a bad start. Now if you include all of Europe, especially Russia, you have something more of a point. Although I suspect that Russian and Polish aren't far off, but Romansh might be a wait. Posted via Windows Phone Central App

First off in I want to drop some knowledge on you so you understand how this stuff works. If you want to Sell your product at WalMart you are required to do 2 things first.
(Someone very close to me who works for the biggest toy company & is in charge of the WalMart market account)
1.) If you want to sell your product at WalMart & want it to be heavily marketed by them in Store & on WalMart Commercials the "Asking Rate" is over a Million dollars for the entry level of heavy promotional ads that run 2-3 weeks. Now add in the cost you have spent on creating the Marketing campaign for WalMart to Advertise it for you. That means you'd pay WalMart the "Privilege" to run a "Marketing Camping" that you, not WalMart, have to create all the content & material and most importantly pay to have put together.
2.) WalMart charges it vendors to sell their product that you are paying to have manufactured only for WalMart to tell you how much they're going to buy your product for, regardless what the Logo of your Company is or how much other retailers are paying for your product. And all the while they're making a nice little profit off of that product you are selling. In other words WalMart just made a huge cut in your profit margin no matter how well it does, not to mention that if they don't put that product, that you paid for them to let you create your own Marketing material, on their display case or in the right areas for customers to see they can totally screw it over & they are now responsible for the flop not you. Microsoft is doing the right thing considering this is something that is still 6-8 weeks out. If they built the phone to run off the carrier you use then it's better to buy it from Microsoft directly which helps their bottom line. A carrier can't block a phone that runs on its bandwidth because you didn't go through them. It's all about regrowing the Devices right now. The worst mistake they could make would be the one they did when trying to promote Windows 8 Phones. Sometimes its better to set the bar low so if you go above it people will take notice in a positive way.

Thanks for taking the time to write that. I have sold products in WalMart before. I know business. I will be buying it unlocked from MS and I hope everyone does. But for the general public. Eh... We'll see. Don't get me wrong, I think MS is doing the right thing now. They just messed up in the past and no carriers don't want it taking up store space, wherhouse space, to test it, etc etc because of things MS has failed to do in the past. So it's MS' fault, that's all I'm saying.

What da hell is this guy talking about! 4get all carriers that pass on it. MS is doing the right thing by selling outright unlocked! Save your money from now and buy your own device. Be free of contacts. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android

Doesn't work that way on the U.S. it's been said a million times already-very few people pay full price upfront for phones here.

That is why Apple does so well in North America.

Well,how about we blame the users for once? Buy those phones unlocked in large numbers and carriers will fight over the next version. It is not Microsoft's fault for carriers not selling the devices. If enough users put pressure on those carriers by taking their hardware dollars to MSFT directly, things will change. I for once will not buy a phone through a carrier ever again.

That is simply dumb. Sorry. I've know small businesses and start ups that have tried to get attention from Walmart and it isn't so easy. Microsoft has deep pockets and is not exactly a start up. Short of bribery or giving carriers money or exclusives (which people bitch about constantly) what should they do? A business chooses to sell what they please and vice -versa. Ask Amazon about Apple TV and Google Chromecast. Ask Google about any official app for their services on Microsoft, and so on. Expectations and reality people. Perhaps these carriers just don't want to expand their portfolio or incur loss or themselves have been convinced by third parties to look the other way. Who knows? Oy vey.

You don't seem to get the point so maybe you it should be explained in way that easy to understand.
Microsoft has been trying for years to gain market share in which they have invested billions of dollars buying Nokia, running ad campaigns that highlighted it's features. Unfortunately in no fault of theirs they couldn't force Mobile Carriers to push a Windows Phone over the Samsung or Apple products because the carriers were at the time fighting for customers & had unfortunately made commitments to those companies to buy "X" amount of units over 4-5 years thinking that they could easily sell them. Unfortunately the market around the time Windows stepped in was flooded with different Android phones & iPhones that forced them into a situation where they over estimated at the time the demand for the best selling phones. They didn't push Windows Phones on to the consumers because they had to much inventory of unsold units that if they didn't sell they would have to pay for all the unsold units when their contracts were up with Apple & Samsung. Perfect example is that Verizon over estimated by so many units that they anticipated to sell, but it came back to bite them because they were in the hole to Apple for $14 billion dollars in unsold iPhones back in 2013 & the only way to avoid paying that money back to Apple they had to renegotiate the contract with Apple basically forcing them to hard sell you on an iPhone once you stepped in that door.
So how did this all hurt Microsoft you ask? Easy even though Microsoft poured all that money into adverting & even the carriers advertised the phones for a few weeks after they were launched. But due to the carriers sales people not show casing the Windows Phones they were considered a huge flop after a few weeks of not gaining the same amount of sales as other device launches and everyone wrote off the Windows Phone as a disaster.
So Microsoft was left with huge investment that they ended up writing off as huge loss that it further drove the point home to Tech Journalist that it was a complete disaster.
So what you have now is a different more subtle approach from Microsoft. Don't make the same mistake as last time, the market is saturated with phones & the last thing they need is another flop for the Mobile Devices. Set the expectation level for market low and don't invest in huge marketing campaigns, sell the devices at Microsoft Stores, as well as dedicated Brick & Mortar Stores where Microsoft has a dedicated display area with a Microsoft Rep who can showcase the items. If it's a hit Microsoft will see better press & if not it's not as hug of a loss if it flops.

Yep if you think about it how stable is it in real world situation. Edge is worthless as it seems to fail the ssl requirements for most DHCPs build after heartbleed

I completely agree with you, and your first comment... You can't get anything reasonable through to blind followers..

Legere subsequently tweeted that he thinks the Lumia 950 and Windows 10 Mobile in general are destined to be the new Firephone and FirephoneOS.  He doesn't like WP, he doesn't like his WP customers, he doesn't WANT to sell them - not really.  He just saw an oportunity to stick himself into the media and bark for the T-Mobile side show some more.

I think he is a creepy douche bag. He bothers me for some reason. Kind of like John Schnatter from Papa Johns. Just creepy....

In all fairness it isn't really him, it's just a role he plays (and plays well judging by how many people buy into the facade).   The creepyness might just come from the fact that his persona is rather disingenouos and you are able to detect that.

Yes, due to a failed strategy and/or execution over the past 5 years that has resulted in a miniscule amount of sales.

Lol. Maybe he meant "they passed on it because it is Microsoft" as in "Canadian carries don't think anyone wants these phones, just like the ones launched before them".

Vicious circle.  Canadians can't get them so they don't sell.

LOL they can get them. Are you north americans so unable to save some money and then buy a F*in phone? You look like children who can't keep their money so their parents have to only give 5$ to them a week. Do understand that when you pass the little initial offset of saving 600$ then you won't be spending your, I don't know 20? $ a month for 30 months and you will buy another new phone and so on and so forth without being slave to carriers. I really can't believe you cannot save a little money and need to have carriers pay for you in advance, jeez!

Its not that its just over the summer they dangled stuff like suretap(secure sim nfc) in front of us. & right now stuff like volte requires the same authentication as uma does. Something they prefer to keep to their customized handsets.

You have no idea what you are talking about.  Here, even Microsoft sells almost no phones.  They won't sell you one from their US website, and the mobile companies carry either none or, possibly, one or two, maximum.  Buying phones, from the US can be an issue because of the bands used. Mmaybe you'd like to come here and bring me one.  BTW, my wife is Italian, she had a response for you, but, even in Italian, it would get my reply removed.      

So you think that the quote from microsoft in the article is false? The part where they say the price for unlocked canadian lumia phones? Strange people. And if you are among the few who can save money, why do you even answer?

For you wife with my regards :P https://www.windowscentral.com/e?link=https2F%2Fclick.linksynergy.co...

From my wife.  Let's play a game.  First word starts with "v", second word starts with "f".

No need to be rude when someone demonstrates you are wrong. Be an adult :)

I have noticed, before, that you have a very high opinion of yourself. I won't explain what my original post was about as you seem to be having trouble deciphering it.  Suffice to say that your original response was insulting, so, my comments stand. Now, go away.

      I never spoke of myself, I have low opinion of people who cannot save the money to buy a phone but then again buy it through a carrier, if you are not one of them why do you bother. And again, you already explained "You have no idea what you are talking about.  Here, even Microsoft sells almost no phones.  They won't sell you one from their US website, and the mobile companies carry either none or, possibly, one or two, maximum." and I posted a link with the canadian store that now has lumia 950 and 950XL (and by the way you have Lumias in all price ranges now). Facts against words ;)    

Yes...Microsoft has been undermining their smartphone proposition for years. Without Nokia's marketing and reach, these new handsets simply won't get a look in.
Microsoft should have tried harder when Nokia was a separate company. As it is, their efforts on the mobile front are too late by the looks of things.

look, I'm a Windows fan, but I think that Microsoft may have finally burnt too many bridges with too many mobile OS reboots. In a way, as a loyal customer, I feel that a "good faith" move would go a long way. First party W10 apps like groove, the store, and Edge on RT devices would go a long way. A low cost high end device, for people to buy on their own and take to any network, would also help. Or a deeply discounted Surface rt/2 to 3 (now that we know the fate of ARM tablets) upgrade program. Just a rant. I'll at least be buying 1 of the new products announced. ​ ​ ​

Deeply discounted would have been nice. The most the microsoft store was going to give me for a 32gb surface 2 and touch keyboard was 67 bucks. (back in June). Such crap. I sold it for 100$ to my brother-in law. Used the money and a 100$ off surface pro3 sale they has in the summer to by the surface pro 3. Love that tablet

I heard rumours that Microsoft/Nokia carrier reps have not been engaging Canadian carriers since mid-summer and that those representatives may no longer be with Microsoft. If that's the case, Canadian carriers may not have been approached by Microsoft at all. I also know of at least one carrier in Canada who had a poor history with Nokia and even stopped carrying their devices at one point.  In addition to all this the carriers have sales targets they must reach for Apple and Samsung devices. It's the illusion of choice. 

Guessing bell is who your referring to

I don't know about "blame", but the bottom line is that the big new flagship that everyone has been waiting on isn't making it into some of the biggest retailer in North America. At some point, yes, if you want to seel devices they have to make it to retailers. Instead they had no announcement of U.S. carriers, apprently no comunication with T-mobile, and no Canadian carriers at all. It doesn't sem like thye did much get the distribution channels in order before release. Even if you can't get the carriers that you want lined up, at least put the spin on what you've got. "We're proud to offer the 950 on America's largest carrier of internationally compatible mobiles phones . . . " or something like that. They just flopped out "yeah, we'll sell them directly ourselves" like a dead fish. Why should I make the effort to go MS directly? Better service? Better warranty? Technical support? Financial incentives? $$$ if I trade in an old 1520? MS does have nice stores that offer good service, but they haven't empahsized that. I guess was expecting more given the delay in getting these devices out there.   BTW, I stopped by my local MS store today and saw the new stuff. 950 XL is nice, I give the styling a solid B, but I'm probably gogin to wait a while to see how tings catch on.      

Yes, I blame Microsoft for doing such an awful job of supporting and promoting Windows phone over the last two years that now nobody wants it, even with high end hardware. Who can blame the carriers for rejecting a product agree Microsoft has gone out of its way to make it clear their mobile platform is the bottom of their priority list? Windows phone is dead. The 950 and 950XL are nice devices, but they're destined for the fire sale bin.

Yes, absolutely, this is on Microsoft.  If they had done the marketing required to push Windows Phone to 20% market share, carriers would be begging for these phones.  But Microsoft has, to this point, shown no commitment whatsoever to driving market share of Windows Phone up.  So it's at 3%.  Why should carriers go to the trouble of training staff to sell a product that so few people are interested in? Microsoft now has a great integration story with Cortana, Continuum and universal apps to market the crap out of Windows Phone and drive it to 20% market share.  Unfortunately, I don't think they have the guts to do it.  I hope I'm wrong.

No amount of marketing can remedy a reputation for having bad apps or no apps at all. If MSFT manages to fix the product, which they hardware-wise just did, then they will get carrier attention.

100% Microsoft's fault that no one has faith in them, as evidenced by the lack of carriers supporting their new flagships

And I know why, MS will not pay as much backhands as the rest. That's why. You dont need to be a rocket scientist to understand that!!!      

Either sell directly to customers or sell to service proiders (they will sell to custormers on your behalf). MS failled sell to it service providers, so only option to sell directly customer. Although, Canadian carriers are crafty and have monopoly, even on prepaid your own device stops working after few months. Fido (little puppy of Rogers) was accused for sending viruses that made mobile phones out of commission!!! 

I don't know who to blame. All I know is Microsoft are at their O.K. Corral, or their 4th and goal w/ time expiring moment with WP, and there two "very long" awaited flagships will probably only be available with one US carrier for now. I would have hoped that they could have made one of the two flagships available to a broader market. I want them to succeed with WP, but it all reilies on this. The next 6 months will determine if there is a future. I can only hope that at&t customers are very supportive so MS and other carriers can take notice.    

Well they pulled their tv app, & promised a suretap(secure sim nfc) app.

Daniel, are you ever gonna admit MS royally screwed up here? They've basically been out of the smartphone game for a year, haven't released a proper flagship for well over that, and been going through yet another transition w their mobile OS. Expecting carriers to just jump on board after all that (and poor sales of what they did carry in the past) isnt their fault, it's Microsoft's. You're basically asking the carriers to take yet another gamble that likely wouldn't have paid off. And to top it off in MS's infinite wisdom, knowing darn well they were gonna be snubbed by carriers, they elected to price their unlocked direct from store versions of these phones so expensive that no one could afford them. And the people who could likely will just buy something else since they can get literally any other phone on the market at this price. MS made sure that no one will buy these phones...again. You'd think they'd learn from Nexus & Moto, bypass the carriers & sell at a decent price directly unlocked. That would've been the way to go, esp in their shoes. But nope. The writing is on the wall with these new phones & I can already smell them stinking up the joint from a mile away. Sad, but true.

It's MS's job to ensure that their products are successful.. How many time do we have to go over this❔
.....
MS makes the hardware, they develop the software... The whole Windows on a phone was solely MS's idea... It's their job to market their product, and make sure it's desirable to outlets, and consumers....
.....
If you look at the root cause of WP's, now Mobile's, lack of success,, you can reach back to WP7.5 and say that any, and everything, negative that has played out has been MS's fault..
1. Extremely poor marketing
2. Lack of priority
3. Docility
4. Lack of foresight
... The list goes on....... It's COMPLETELY MS's fault, from a realistic, and technical, point of view,,,, And, they should take total responsibility.

I hear you Daniel, but you have to understand that the vast majority of people here, will get whatever their current carrier has to offer, they will not go to another store to get the device, since they want a "one stop shop" experience with the subsidies and specials etc. The carriers here are very lazy and since there is no real competition in Canada, they have no motivation to do anything different than present the brand new apple/samsung/cheap android. This is where Microsoft should have been more aggressive in pushing their devices and even paying the carriers comissions for every phone sold. The problem is that Canada is not considered as a target market. It is not a 2nd/3rd world country with hundreds of millions of potential customers. And with the prices here are 15% above the exchange rate and with the already pretty high prices of the devices (except the 550 which is not priced in CAD yet) I see this launch of Mobile 10 a complete flop and waste of time in Canada... This is from someone which gets excited and happy to see people using Surface or Nokia around me (can count on one hand how many I've seen). Signed, Hopeless for MS Canada...

I have a day one Lumia 920, a Day One Xbox, and SP2, and a Galaxy Note 8. Big Microsoft fan. I want to upgrade, but do these have NFC? Is Microsoft Payments coming? My choice will B between dual SIM Lumia 950XL and Galaxy Note 4 Duos. I've waited almost 3 years, but I'm struggling with a reason to stay.

Wallet, what a stresser on WP. When is software day (we've had devices day) by the way?

Yes, it has NFC and MS pay will probably show up as there are some online evidences (not concrete ones though). http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msca/en_CA/pdp/Microsoft-Lumia-950-X... Under connectivity see "NFC: Pairing, secure NFC for payment, sharing, tagging" MS Payments
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2907305/microsoft-payments-lays-groundwor...

Sure but only in the US will this appear

A good product sells itself. Trust me, Lumia 950 and 950xl is a damn good product. Looks could have been a bit more funky. Nevertheless, this is already THE device of the year.

Don't make me laugh...   the 920 was an amazing phone too... so was the 925... etc etc. 

Yes they were &  that's why they sold  over 2.5 million units of the former in three weeks. The 950 & 950XL will do well globally as flagship Lumia's always have. A lot of you on this site think you're being realistic when all you're really spewing is cynicism & negativity. Have a little faith.

Rather optimistic considering the fact they're not out yet, and the os isn't even ready for prime time and the fact that the chap that runs this site is himself underwhelmed - though his opinion is his own but that seems to be the market consensus. MSFT did this to themselves and it is top to them to show investing in inventory won't be a logistical waste. Arguably that hasn't been shown yet, indeed they didn't go on about the devices or features much at all - is that lack of confidence in the product coupled with an understanding of how apathetic the market will be, an unfinished product or a bit of both? MSFT have created this hole and they need to climb out of out. They may have the cash but, at some point, they're will be shareholder blowback a la Zune. I believe they need to be in mobile: as a hardware and software provider our just software, that remains to be seen.

Let's wait for public ads and stuff first, then judge if Microsoft is to blame. If people are/get interested, they know where to go. After all Nadella was speaking about a five year plan to get the platform out into the whole world. Additionally, if people judge a book by its cover (market perception as it is right now) they won't be the user Win10Mobile is made for. I know there are people who miss certain apps and services for WP, but just consuming or following every trend isn't the right way if you don't want to be capitalism's cash cow.

You really envision them a large marketing push with these phones?  Its pretty clear Lumia is a dead brand.  There is a reason they are branding the products they are actually proud of as Surface.

I was worried this would happen. When the 830 became the first windows phone to be offered by Bell, Telus, and Rogers, I posted that it was $150 too expensive for its specs, that none of us wanted to "side grade" from 920 and ATIV S, and my fear was that poor sales of 830 would result in Canada not getting a flagship. At least the Microsoft store will finally offer them this time, it's just a shame that our dollar sucks and the XL is so costly in Canada.

Canadian carriers are worse than any in the USA. And with the dollar at the mark it is at, these prices in the Canadian Microsoft store are too much for me to stomach. Really hope my 1520 runs the final build well!

I feel for Canada. That country seems to get shafted frequently. Mind you, US carriers are a law unto themselves. In my neck of the woods, UK, I can throw virtually any SIM into any phone. I can also buy virtually any phone I want. My only frustration are the practices of the carriers here. I don't like 24 month contracts either.

Ohh come on....they let tease people and then like this!?

Its funny but I think most people were very positive with Microsoft's acquisition of Nokia, saying it'll have more power with carriers in the US. I even remember Daniel having the same sentiments. And now nobody wants to carry these phones. Heh.

Not everyone was happy with that acquisition, including the board of directors and senior investors - this was Ballmer and his friend Elop (who ended up running the show) that created this tangent. Now, finally, they're creating for themselves, hopefully the surface team can work some magic. The price becomes irrelevant when the product is fantastic.

Poor canadia, lawl.

Sucks. May buy outright.

I was tweeting with Telus and nothing is decided yet. They actually gave me a bit of hope commenting on how they saw the Tuesday event and called the devices amazing. Really hope they pick them up, otherwise it may be Android for me as unlocked prices are too expensive.

How come unlocked are too expensive? You'd be better off getting a loan and buying one and still that'll be cheaper than subsidized phone.

Afaik, in Canada, whether you get a subsidized phone or buy it unlocked outright, you still pay the same monthly bill. At least that is my experience with Rogers thus far.

Sort of. If you still have an earlier contract then yes, but new rules dictate that the pricing be adjusted so that there is a service charge + device charge. When you get a subsidized phone, that charge is included in your plan. It's like having a loan and making payments on it simultaneously while paying your bill. Even if you're on an old contract, you should probably call Rogers and get them to reduce the bill provided that you have the phone paid off.

Thanks for the clarification! That is great to hear, and makes me feel better about buying the phone outright. I am not sure if my 920 is paid off at this point, because I was on a 3 year contract that is yet to be finished, but I will be sure to call them to find out! Thanks again.

Not true. The difference is 30$ as soon as your contract runs out though you have to call them or they'll rip you off. They even advertise this difference with bring your own device

They only advertise the difference as $10 here but that could be because I'm in MB and the rates are already way cheaper than other provinces.

Thanks for the clarification. Looks like I have to call Rogers lol.

$20 with Telus. That means that on a 2 year plan it is cheaper to get any phone that is more than $480 outright through the carrier when the handset is $0 on contract which most Lumias have been. At $750 and $850, that applies to these phones in a big way.

Wrong Telus bring your own handset plans are cheaper...

Apparently Rogers has the same thing, I just did not realize it. My bad.

Don't want to get a loan for a phone. I wish I had $900 to shell out for the phone since it would be less expensive in the long run.

Save Up?

that's an option if my patience can hold, haha.Would rather save up for a Pro 4.

You realize that buying it outright is the only way that you're not "getting a loan for a phone."  All you're changing is who you're paying for the loan -- credit card company or carrier.    

But, because in much of the country they charge you $20/month more for a plan with a device subsedy, the total cost of the loan is only at most $480 with a carrier. Because most Lumias have been $0 with a plan, that's cheaper than paying outright.

It's not though. Because bring your own plans are $20 cheaper per month in much of the country, it is only a deal to buy a phone outright if it is less than $480 outright. Otherwise, it's a better deal subsidized with a carrier.

im glad i live in the UK where we dont have this issue. stupid!

Exactly - looks like carriers rule in the US and Canada

They, certainly, do. 

Same here from Finland

It would be big surprise if Finland gave up on these phones

its funny cause Microsoft is actually trying to go the way of Europe by selling them unlocked and priced out-right but people in North America are so used to this monthly payment or contract signing that when they see 750$ our-right for a phone they run away lol

Haha. Very true, I never trust carriers and their subsidized phones. American are sometimes just too lazy to go alternative, in fact, they take too many things for granted, and never thought about other options.

Why does it have to be about being lazy? What's better... Paying $20 a month along with your service charge for 2 years or dropping $480 on the first day? Any rational individual will prefer the 1st option. (In fact if you go as far as factoring for inflation the first option is cheaper) The problem is with carriers' strangle on phone selection; not with subsidizing.

And you can't use your Credit Card and pay $40 a month for 1 year for the phone?

it isn't an issue of being lazy. American carriers still frown on not being the ones to sell you the phone. They tend to make the experience more difficult, or simply make you a better offer through some sort of promotion to buy a carrier branded phone. Some carriers are better than others. Verizon is horrible when it comes to BYOD.​

The US company I work for pays my mobile bill so it is better for me to get the phone on a plan so that they pay for the phone as well. My renewal is this month with TELUS and if I want the 950XL I'll now have to pay for it because I will never get approval for a $900 phone. Just thought I'd add a different scenario and why laziness reasoning you supplied doesn't fly.

It isn't lazy. It's nobody here pays $500-600-700. for something they'll only use for a year or so. THAT'S stupid. Apparently all you foreigners must be pretty well-heeled!

We're used to paying that much, but we're used to paying that much divided monthly over the course of 2 years interest free. Can you really blame us?

A very large percentage of people atill think they are getting the phone for $199.

This!  How about saving up to pay for it rather than incurring monthly payments?  All these monthly bills add up and things can get out of hand quickly.

This! Yesterday I heard two girls in my office talking about Verizon Edge vs a contract. The one said, "I like the contract better because then I am only paying $200 for my phone instead of $700." Now, I don't have Verizon, and I'm not even sure if they have contracts anymore, but I just can't believe that people don't realize that they are paying the same for the phone no matter what. I've decided to leave AT&T for Cricket. I have never liked the idea of buying a phone outright, but AT&T isn't giving me a choice if I want the XL. I can already see the benefits. I will be able to switch to an MVNO and save $40-$50 a month that I can just put into a phone fund for next year's flagship.

so in america do operators offer sim only deals? in the uk i get 250 minutes to any network, 5000 texts, and 500mb all for £7.50 a month. so only £90 a year!

There are still plans that don't have unlimited texting?

lol, yeah if you go with Tesco mobile! i get no where near that though so basically inlimited

That would, probably, cost $75+/mo here.

Which is very weird because I see them (people from US and Canada) as one of the wealthiest bunch. I mean, they could just buy the phone from MS with no problem at all.

It's utterly moronic how much power these should be dumb pipes have.

God save the Queen!!! :)

Yep its scary how powerful the Carriers are in US/Canada. How Americans/Canadians haven't lobbied for freedom is surprising. I think by law all "subsidized" handsets should also have their "real" price be advertised (ie The real cost of the handset hardware) so that Americans/Canadians can actually work out how much they are paying for Data/Calls/Rental per month. The Verge wrote about this recently saying that you don't ask your Electricity supplier to provide you with light bulbs or your Gas station to throw in a car with your fuel. Its time to separate the plan from the devices like we enjoy in the UK. I pay the equivalent of $20 for a sim with 3GB data, unlimited texts, unlimited same network calls and 250 minutes to others networks and I can leave any time. A unlocked Lumia 535 here is like $99 and your good to go.

We have massive public support for curtailing the oligopoly in Canada but the carrier former exes run the CRTC who governs the carriers in Canada....

But, do you know which networks/carriers in the UK will offer both phones in both colours?

O really hope 3 get this phone, they passed on the 1520.... But these phones are, in my opinion, going to be the best on the market! They would be stupid to ignore them.

it wont matter, as the covers will be easy enough to buy and so can just swap it out

Considering how it went the last time they tried pushing devices through the big 3, I'm not the least bit surprised. Microsoft and Nokia did a really poor job back then. So now I am left with the choice of spending $849+tax on a 950 XL, or soldering on with my old broken 1520. Nice. I also don't get the price disparity with the U.S. pricing. It makes sense based on current exchange rates but that's of little comfort to me when I know had this been out a year earlier, it would only be $50ish more expensive. Point being...exchange rates aren't necessarily reflective of relative strengths. $849 is overpriced.

What do you mean exchange rates are not reflective to relative strength, phones like everything else that is being imported is impacted by the strength of the Canadian dollar, which has been depreciating at a rapid pace lately.

Well, sure. But strictly from an economic stand point, in Canada, is everything that much more expensive now? Food, furniture, cars etc haven't gone up in price since that is a byproduct of inflation. If the economy itself hasn't inflated, it makes the exchange rate implied change in price an artificial inflation of sorts. $100 in Canada still has the same purchasing power as it did one or two years ago (maybe a percent or two less). Considering that the huge increase in price is hard to swallow. For an average guy who could afford the phone at $700, this is unreasonable to pay $150 more. It makes sense on an import basis but in reality, it doesn't check out. Also, this rapid descent is a result of the energy crisis and the relative strength of the U.S. dollar. Should the equation reverse in, lets say, 6 months, would Microsoft come back and adjust the pricing? I think not. Not necessarily their fault but you have to admit that the size of the market shrinks rapidly with increasing prices. What's a good deal at $600 is not so much at $700 or $800. I get the same value but have to pay more.

All imports have gone up in price since the dollar started depreciating. $100 in Canada has the same purchasing power on purely Canadian goods and services that are not denominated in a foreign currency, otherwise $100 in Canada does not go the as far any more.  The adjustment in prices to reflect the new exchange reality is not as fequent as the FX fluctuations themselves, I can agree with you there, but it is still done to reflect the FX changes. 6 months from now the reversion is highly unlikely, however if the FX reverses and stabalizes the prices will be adjusted to reflect the new exchange, I'm pretty sure this has happened before with phones as well when CDN hit parity with USD and stayed around that point for a while. Overall I agree with you, this shrinks the Canadian market for the phones, but that's what it is, from FX standpoint that's not an MS issue or fault, our government failed to diversify the economy away from oil, gas, metals and mining and the only market they've inflated is RE as a result we now have bigger boom/bust swings and are going through a pretty bad bust at the moment due to very low prices of oil, the strength of USD which most commodities are traded in as well as overall poor demand for these given the eocnomic slow down in Europe and China.      

Certainly, this is mainly me whining for having to spend $150 more for the same thing. Hehe. As for the economy...it's actually really not that bad. The role of commodities is often overstated for our economy. Overall it makes sense as the relative strength of the USD is high enough but I don't think it is because of an actual reliance on commodities. They've certainly provided most of the growth and hence, occupy more of the mindshare as opposed to the market share.

Sorry man but you're wrong. We do have a huge reliance on commodities!

Your an idiot if you think food hasn't gone up. I operate a grocery business and trust me when I've seen all my producers increase their price by more than 20%. Fresh groceries have gone up so much that its better in price to bring in the lower quality BC fruits and veggies over the California goods.

Well, geez, thanks for the kind words. Before pointing out something that seems like a foregone conclusion to you, have you considered the probability that not everyone may have had the same experience as you? My overall grocery bills remains exactly where it was. And I live in Alberta. The next time you're interested in providing feedback or a discussion (since this is a public forum), try starting your comment with something that makes you look less obtuse.

Firms are eating the costs for THE CURRENT TIME, in the long run guess who foots the bill. You the consumer

Here is hoping Microsoft can offer a monthly fee for these phone, like Apple is doing.  I might have to switch carriers in the US, unless these phones somehow work on Verizon.  Regardless, I want to buy the phone directly from Microsoft.  It would be nice not to have to shell out the full price of the phone up front.

Amen. That would be like a contract of sorts. You go in, price it, pick a carrier for service and pay monthly payments to Microsoft. I'd like that.

Honestly, I would be really surprised if Microsoft didn't do this. It is the only way that the XL will have any chance of selling in any meaningful way. The majority of US consumers just don't understand that they aren't actually getting a phone for $99, and would not even consider dropping $650 on a phone. I'm buying an XL either way, but I would like to see a no or low interest payment option through the MS store.

I dont get the price disparity either. Its a difference of $200 for either phone but if you add 30% to the american price (our dollar I worth 70-75 cents to a US dollar) of say the 950, The canadian price should be 620.37, but its 749. Over $100 beyond the exchanged value. I may have to take a day trip to Buffalo, NY when these things launch...

Yeah these devices are not worth carrying no one is really checking or looking for windows phone. This phones really do not offer any wow factors and lets be honest if one wanted to use a monitor and house they would just get a desktop

But liquid cooling and dual antennas in addition to continuum and desktop windows syncing!
Those are all selling features for me. Its super upsetting that carriers wont carry it, especially Rogers has been a proponent of Windows phones in the past with the 520, 920, 1020, 630 and 830(still currently being sold)

The hardware is great, its the OS that no one gives a damn about.

The OS is equally as great.  People are too easily manipulated.

This.

Windows 10 Mobile is hardly as great as the hardware in these devices.

In some ways it's even better. Android OTOH.. now that's a disaster of an OS.

Under no conditions is Windows 10 Mobile more impressive than the top of the line hardware in these phones.

I wouldn't jump so far to say that. I'm the first to admit, I'm getting sick of missing some apps, but there are more and more comming, official ones too. I even saw the Fallout 4 companion app will release day one with Fallout 4. I don't know of any game companion apps that do that. Interest is certainly growing, I just hope it continues to rise.

It doesn't matter how good these phones are, the main issue is still there and that is apps. The idea of universal apps and project Astoria etc. are great but how long do users have to wait? I don't see a big influx of apps coming to Windows 10 since its release, dev tools aren't ready and momentum is being lost. People interested to move to Windows 10 phone are not going to want to wait months for their favorite apps to show if they show at all. Carriers know this. I'm ready to jump on a 950 XL at release but for the first time I have reservations due to apps, if there is no developer response over the next several months I'll most likely jump ship as much as I would hate to do so. Then again Microsoft has made it easier to do if it came to that.

Couldn't you, theoretically, make the same argument for any and every other feature introduced on smartphones for the last decade? "oh I can just go home and check it on my desktop" Having your phone turn into a full fledged PC is cool. From what I've heard, people took well to the whole event. The Lumia lineup probably won't make any headway because of the 950/950XL but it's managed to at least get noticed. That's no bad thing for what is essentially a fan exercise. Also, I buy things depending on how they fit my need. Having a wow factor is nice but it's really far down the priority list.

The 950 checks every feature I'm looking for, down to the qi charging. 

what the flippin hell, microsoft. i'm amazed at how badly they've botched their best chances at relevancy in the phone market.

Nice that you give the carriers a free pass on this too.

Daniel, any idea if MS is going to offer installment plans in US and Canada?

Daniel...it's very simple. Carriers want to make money.
Clearly, whatever Microsoft are offering isn't going to make the carriers any coin - so either Microsoft gets serious and incentivises the sales of these devices...or they just give up.

It all depends on what incentives the carriers are demanding.  Microsoft has to draw the line somewhere.  I really wish we can get away from all this carrier exclusivity and be more like how EU does it.  That way I'm not stuck with a carrier and I'm guaranteed every update.

The EU operates in a similar way. Most people buy flagships via a 2 year monthly plan.

EU gives you the freedom of doing as you like, many operators have lumias and unlocked lumias work on every operetor.

Not sure if you'll see this here, Daniel, but how can we all work together to seriously call the carriers out on the carpet? They have a perfect divide and conquer situation in the US, largely through their spectrum licenses that equate to de facto ownership. The post paid subsidy model factors into that as well, as do corporate plan discounts extended to workers. My situation: Verizon has the only ubiquitous signal and thus likely 75% of the customers. ATT evidently doesnt think they can peel off enough customers to invest any effort. We all - customers, press, even Microsoft as an OEM kind of just shrug our shoulders, grumble, and then return to our distractions. As an enterprise IT implementer, Continuum really piques my interest for a good fourth to a third of my people, but, Verizon, so it may as well be Doc Brown's DeLorean. I'm not sure I trust another OEM to pull it off (Acer, etc), but we'll see. Anyway, we've been divided and conquered, what can we really do together to even this out?

And its nice you give Microsoft a free pass on this one because its their fault

Just buy outright. That's how all phones should be anyway.

Yep. I don't understand the advantage of contacts and carriers

$269.00 or $369.00 CAD is the advantage. With Telus the bring your own device rate on a two year plan is $20 more per month or $480 over two years. For a non premium device it's only $10 more. Thats a significant savings either way. When the Canadian price of the phone is $749 or $849, the subsedy is a big difference.

Like everyone can drop $650... or $850 if it's a new iphone, outright.  You think a 16yr old girl (Apple's fan base) is going to be able to do that?  

Well it's quite simple. If you don't have the money to buy something, you can't afford it. People are lured into it by developing debt (something a 16 year old girl cannot do, so her parents must in the case of not buying it outright) If people would learn how finances work and stop accumulating so much long term debt, they'd be able to save money up and buy nice things that they want.

People pay monthly for their phone bill. Why is the idea of paying monthly for their phone such a horible idea, especailly when you cover both with a single bill

"People pay monthly for their phone bill. Why is the idea of paying monthly for their phone such a horible idea, especailly when you cover both with a single bill? People don't pay flr their gome phones on their phone bill.

Because you wind up paying 30-40% more than if you'd just bought the device outright and gone on a much cheaper plan. Maybe it doesn't work like that in the US, but I save approximately $800-900 over 24 months compared to someone with the same device on a plan.

What does it have to do with debt? If I have a choice of shelling out $850 for a phone or paying for it over a 2 year period, neither one impacts how much I pay for my phone service, why would I decide to shell out $850? Plus this "debt" that you mention is not considered debt, it doesn't show up on your credit report

See what happens if you don't pay it. FYI, before you sign your first cell phone contract, a credit check is done. All that aside, when you sign a contract, saying you will pay a certain amount of money over a certain amount of time, that is debt.

This is why most Americans are all in debt.  Interest free loans is still debt people!

Not an American. If you have an interest free loan available to you what's better, paying $1,000 up front and saving nothing or paying $1,000 over a 2 year period, at the same time putting $1,000 into savings and earning an interest on that?

Actually, $1000 in a savings account isn't going to give you much at all in 2 years. You might get $40-$50 if you find a good savings rate. Even at %6APY, you're talking a little over $100. Now if you have no debt, and you suddenly have to pay $50 for a repair or something, it's no big deal because you don't have your loan payment to worry about. Where as if you had to take the $50 out of your savings, now you just lowered what you can gain in your interest. If you put your money in a higher interest investment, like a CD or a Bond, you're just screwed because it's locked in for a set amount of time and you don't ahve access to your $50 (or what ever amount you need) Long term debt is not something you should aspire to have. It's better to save up, purchase, and then not make monthly payments so you can save up again (hopefully before you have to purchase again). Buy a cheap phone outright, lets say a L640, put $10/month in your account. 8 months later you paid yourself back. Now either keep putting $10/month in your account till you need another phone, or sell your L640 and spend another $80 for a better phone. Ovbiously these numbers can change from person to person and item to item, but it can be applied to nearly every situation until you start reaching more than $10k. But if you start early enough, even purchases that size can be made in cash and you can pay yourself back.   EDIT: none of that even takes into account that if you fall into hard times, you can always sell what spent $1000 on. You can't ever just get rid of the loan

If you get an interest free loan, you're better of in the long term putting that money into savings. With certain GICs you can pull money out before hand, you'll get your principal back but will forego the return. A phone does not retain it's value, so selling it will in most cases create a loss. $100 bucks is still better than zero. My point was, not all leverage is bad, if you get an interest free loan it either allows you to generate a return on your savings or make something more attainable over time that you may not necessairly afford in one go. What you're talking about is the cases that people lever up to such an extent that they can't afford to service the installment payments, that is obviously a ticking time bomb. But simply saying people shouldn't by something they can't afford is wrong. Someone may not afford to spend $1,000 in one go, but can afford to service a $40/month installment without significantly adding to the risk. If everyone shunned leverage all the time, whether it is interest free or in cases when the interest rate is below your cost of capital, most would never be able to acquire or grow their businesses. Overall we are essentially saying the same thing, people shouldn't over extend themselves. We're just looking at overextending differently    

In that sense agreed. My point is, if you look at discouns offered on BYOD plans relative to what you would pay under two year, there is not interest burden. If you're not paying interest on this debt, then you're certainly better off with an installment plan.

It is absolutely debt.  Try not paying for that phone and it will absolutely end up on your credit report.  Just because the carrier doesn't regularly report to a credit bureau doesn't change the fact that you're paying for something over time.  Not to mention that it does change the amount you pay for service.  Did you think they were just giving stuff away before?  

In that sense I agree, like anything on installment you have to pay for it. With regards to how much your services cost changes that's where the issue is. In Canada, they just started offering discounts for BYOD and even then its on plans that aren't competitive, so if I bring my own device and get a discount I may still end up paying more than if I signed up for a 2 year plan with a device subsidiy for likely a comparable plan.

A recent article (wish I could find it) proved that you still pay more, over the 2 years, if you don't buy outright.

Yep... my simple numbers are this: I paid $650 for my handset, and I pay $30/m for my pre-paid plan. My friend bought the identical handset, but didn't paying anything outright and had to go on a $65/m plan + $15/m MRO (handset repayment) = $80/m. So over 24 months I pay $1,370 and he pays $1,920... so I'm $550 better off and I can switch carriers or devices at any time.

How do the plans compare? Does your $30 prepaid plan offer the same services as your friend's $65 plan? Voice, text, data limits? That's also a factor to consider.  

Based on how Canadian telecoms price bring your own vs subsidized phone plans, you only pay at most $480 when you get the phone with a carrier. The plans are usually $20/month more when you get a phone, and most Lumias have been $0 on a plan. $480 is way less than the $850.

exactly my point and even if you were paying the same $850 over time, you still get an interest free loan, allowing you to earning an interest on the money you didn't have to put up front

It does impact how much you pay for your phone service though. If you buy outright and take it to one of the many MVNOs that offer the same or similar coverage for a fraction of the cost, you will recoup the costs of buying the phone outright in a relatively short timeframe.

Sure but then carriers wouldn't be motivated to pay for updates

Carrier pricing is based on financing the phone through the carrier.  You don't have to do that, finance the phone elsewhere and you can still get your debt and monthly payments if you want to be so free with your finances.

Sure. Without phone+contract you would have money do to so. Like all European do.  

That's why you need to think about if a 16year old really needs a $850 phone. If you can't afford, just go else where. Think twice before making any purchases, not just follow the crowds. And in the end of the day, carriers still earn money from you... They are not doing charities. Subsidization does lower your emotional threshold to pick up a high end device, after the contract, you will pay more than just buying outright.

Well a 16 year old isn't going to be able to do it period.  You pay $850 no matter how you look at it -- infact you're generally paying more over the life of a contract than you would with a payment plan.

I converted my sister's family to L640's a few months ago.  Cost us $400 to upgrade the four of them.  We told the kids if they wanted a more expensive phone, they would have to save up for it.  There will be no entitlement in this family!  One of them saved up and bought a Galaxy S6.

In all seriousness, good for you guys. I had ot pay for all my stuff (food and roof excluded) and I know the value of $1. I know how to do my finances and everything important. Lol, I do wish my parents paid for college though, damn President screwed me over when he raised the interest on federal student loans.

Good for you. I was never taught proper financial sense when I was growing up, and I paid for it after I turned 18 and went crazy with credit cards. I've seen the error in my ways thankfully though. Phones are my last remaining weakness. Thankfully, I don't have a choice other than saving up for the XL though.

"You think a 16yr old girl (Apple's fan base) is going to be able to do that? "   Doesn't matter, mommy and daddy are paying for it.

That's not really a valid argument. At 15, I spent $4000 that I made myself to buy my first car. So the 16 year old can buy stuff outright. It's just a matter of not being a lazy sloth and getting a job.

In some US states you can't even legally hold a job until age 18 anymore.

Lame excuse. Walk dogs, babysit, mow lawns, shovel sidewalks...etc. There's aways ways to make money.

Sell drugs, boost cars, collect debts for the mob.

Exactly right. The most my parents ever gave me was $2/week pocket-money, but through doing paper-rounds and part-time work at a convenience store I had $5000 saved up when I was 15 - and this was in the 90's when salaries were much lower. I would regularly go into computer shops and drop $300-400 on computer games (when they were $80 each) and enjoyed seeing the look on the salepersons face when the "silly kid" they ignored in their shop could actually afford to splash out so much cash. I always bought everything myself, and always had savings... but my main passion was computer games and I didn't waste my money on anything else like the other kids did.

Believe me, tou are not like most 15 year olds.  I don't know a teenager, under 18, that paid for their phone.

Funny you say that, I always found the iPhone to be a feminine looking phone.

It seems simple enough but think about businesses that don't want to buy outright in order to keep cash on hand. The carriers give businesses the ability to purchase their employees phones through installment plans which helps said business to afford refreshes when needed. That is the situation I'm in and I'm bummed that T-Mobile hasn't announced anything yet. I'm just hoping to hear something in the next month. I've been patient so far.

Except businesses have the ability to work out deal due to multiple devices being sold as well as being able to write it off on taxes.

Except for cdma network though.

Agree. Buy outright, off contract. Use a credit card, buy through a store with financing. If you can't afford the phone, save up, prioritize. Same as buying a Surface, PC, any other tablet, excluding LTE on contract tablets. Prepaid also usually offers large savings, at the loss of some customer service features that are rarely utilized anyway.

Wow! Microsoft really need to work/ negotiate a deal with these carriers around the world and get these phones in stores so people can actually see them and play around with them.

If a carrier sees no value in the phone or thinks it won't sell, then there is not much to negotiate.

Thanks god we've got Microsoft store in north America.

I agree with you Dan, but I have a question, "How in the H*ll is BlackBerry still in stores then"???

Here's a potentially smart idea for Microsoft Canada stores. Sell these Devices at your stores on a Payment Plan using Credit Checks like the Carriers currently perform on new customers (except pre-paids) and thereby allow customers a similar benefit of putting down 25% or more of the purchase price and paying off the remaining over 2 years. They may also consider biting the 'profit' bullet and selling these 2 new flagships at the same Canadian retail prices offered in the USA ($599 + $649) in order to gain market penetration. The likely manufacturing costs of these 2 devices likely are between $260-$325/unit but the main logistics reason for a high retail is to recoup you development costs. Also price speaks to high panache and/or perception that one is buying a real premium device.

Shame about that non-removable Google Malware, though.

It is really disappointing since Canada never got the Lumia 930. The last flagship Windows Phone Canada has had was the Lumia 1020 which is basically just a 920 with a better camera.

With you on that one, also what does this mean for accessories such as cases, WP has always been dismal in that department especially for the first few months, sure things were available if silicone and black were your thing and even then it was slim pickin', going to be worse now I'm guessing and once again limited choice. Time will tell I suppose but for me it doesn't look good, can't see how the lack of carrier support and MS keeping the strings tight is going to help the platform grow. Just as some had mentioned that the "budget" phones were needed same goes for carriers, many want/need them no matter how you look at it.

And who's at fault for no value.....the carriers?

Yes

I don't believe they think these things won't sell.  Quite the opposite.  I think they're looking at the potential havoc these things will unleash on their networks via Continuum.  PCs with no tethering restrictions on unlimited plans sucking down Netflix?  These things are outright hostile to telecoms.  

Only in N America I think

Carriers around the world? Sorry but this is an American/Canadian problem. Perhaps your service providers are in bed with Apple & Google coz  it's quite clear that there's a concerted effort to sabotage every new Lumia device that comes out. Lumias actually sell quite well in the rest of the world. I maintain that MS should just tell all these carriers to "f*ck off", sell their phones unlocked & offer a monthly installment plan, then focus on the countries that are making them money & getting them market share. Bring more features to the rest of the world & then leverage their popularity elsewhere.

Is it Microsoft, or is it the carriers? That's what's boggling my mind right now. Are carriers outright refusing due to low sales or low demand, or they want more control distributing the phones as their own w/ shovel ware and decide everything? It can go both ways.

I think it is both.  The carriers want too much control, and Microsoft doesn't want to give it to them.  They had to at least go with AT&T here in the US, but they probably wanted less than the rest.  Plus, they have supported Windows Phones the best (not that they have been great).

I wouldn't say all a control issue since a Apple maintains their control over software. I would say more along the lines of low sales.

Yeah, due to their own sells staff pushing iPhones on their directive. If you don't want phoned to sell, that's how you do it and all carriers have proven they only care about iPhone. Haven't you heard about the iPhone forever plan or the $1/month for an iPhone on sprint?????

Well Apple maintains control because their phone sells. No other carrier cannot live without Apple anymore.

I actually prefer this way... No phones should be tied to a single carrier. Just ridiculous that most folks in North America are so used to this idea.

100% the carriers.

What the fuck I'm tired of this...

Omg Canadian carriers suck. And here I thought I would get one right away.

You could get one right away, but probably not with a contract.

Same here.

At least Canadian carriers no longer have 3 year contracts....

Well we are lucky in all situations.
No carrier specific phone.
Every phone is available for all, its people's right to choose what they want and from whom.

+920. The advantages of not being contract bound esp in a country like India are aplenty. Personally, I will wait till the prices drop a fair bit before splurging on one of these.

Carriers can go fk themselves! Too bad they are rule in us and Canada.

Not necessarily.  We can still buy unlocked from Microsoft.

And the drama continues...

NOOOOOOOOOO!!! I was waiting for the XL to replace my 1020... Damn......

honestly man, save a couple hundred from each check and buy your XL flat out and change your mobile plan to a cheaper pre-paid base and its a win-win down the road. if ur in Canada then yeah idk how the plans work there, do you still pay the same price monthly whether you buy the phone out-right or buy it with a 3 year contract?

On Rogers you save $20 a month to bring your own phone, but those savings work out to less than having a subsidized phone, especially at $850. So its not cheaper to bring your own phone to a Canadian carrier.

Well - you assume. 20 x 24 = 480, sure, but what is the contract price that provides the start point?

$75 is the new base monthly price to get a "super" phone on contract at full subsidy. If you bring in your on phone you get $60gb 2gb at best and you still have to find a way to buy the phone

  I get that, but how much are they charging for the phone on contract? a 16GB iPhone 6 Plus is $400 before the two-year contract. So at least another $15/month (fromat you're saying) beyond that. If you have $400 up front for a phone to then have a contract why not sabit more and get the device outright? Also, for what it's worth, you're comparing a very agressively-priced off-contract rate with a base contract plan. I pay $70 off-contract for nation-wide and 1GB...

The price of the phone and the price of the service should be separated out.  That may stop them from ripping people off.

Wow.  Carrier have finally settled on Android and iOS, and just at the time MS needs them the most too.  This f*cking sucks!  WP is not looking good at the moment.  The only thing we can hope for is MS has good sales through their stores and it encourages the carries to pick them up eventually. Not surprised though. 

Fido told me that they have no word yet,but sinve this report, i wont expect anymore.

Carriers (esp North American) are EVIL!!!! Look across the pond, multiple carriers have announced support but the drug-cartel style NA carriers want to be begged to carry a phone. They can all go jump!!!!!

LOL at the drug cartel analogy. :D
So the cartel lord must be Apple.

Its bad how carriers are paid by companies to carry phones. Really bad for equality for sales. All carriers should sell all phones. Glad I live in the UK where carrier power does not happen.

Microsoft needs to create demand for the phones through advertisements. Carriers will then join in to carry these. All up to Microsoft.

Advertising is only part of the equation and at the end of the day not even that big of a part.

All I see are iPhones and Samsung Galaxy ads. Those are the two sell the most here in US.

Microsoft needed to create a need for these devices before they were released.

There's never really a "need" for a high priced phone...

If you're expecting a large advertising campaign from Microsoft for these phones, you're probably going to be disappointed. There's going to be virtually no marketing, outside of carrier ads.

Don't worry Canada, US got your back ☺ Posted via the Windows Central App for Android

I sure hope Rogers picks them up, otherwise I'll be in a bit of a predicament. I understand that all the details for these phones leaked ahead of time, but I am starting to wonder if the lack of carrier support is the reason Microsoft seemed reserved when announcing the phones. I will be messaging Rogers to do my part in showing interest for the Lumia 950/950XL  

That makes all two of us.

Is it me, or is Microsoft trying to go the Apple route and sell their phones unlocked, unbranded through their own stores to build the hype train and eventually have carriers come to them to sell them.

Well they've been bullied by the idiotic carriers for too long now.

I think they're doing that not out of strategy but necessity.

I think most of us who do not like to owe money, rather have it this way anyhow.

It will take the enthusiasts buying the phones directly from Microsoft.  Microsoft needs to offer payment plans like the iPhone Upgrade Program.

The Apple Cashflow Management Program

Push them to Europe, 950:s will do well here. With 10,6% marketshare it will contribute

Exactly. I think by far the most foolish thing MS keeps doing is neglecting the regions where their products are actually doing well. Being Cortana, Groove & all your other Services to Europe, Australia, South Africa & India. Cement you market share globally then tackle the US when you've got a leg to stand on. Stuff these carriers anyway. What's stopping then from selling these phones unlocked & with all the radios on hire purchase?

As a US resident, I agree with this also.  Europe is doing it the right way anyhow. (no exclusivity crap to worry about)

Wow one of the best phone coming to the market and no carriers. Making me not wanting to leave Android and spend $650 on a Window Phone. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android

yeah, I see how that's a tough choice. The camera on the 950 is gonna have to be above and beyond for me to shell out 650$ out-right -__- The galaxy s6 I know takes great pictures and my 925 is showing its age.

You're 3 year old phone is showing it's age?  Wow, windows phones really suck!  /s

I hate that no carrier will have the devices, because it will impact a lot on the visibility for Windows Phone. Other than that I'll have to scrape the money to afford the 950xl out the gate. Now if I could only find a great cheap couples(shared) plan with a carrier that as network in the Gaspesian Peninsula.

As usual the moronic carriers call the shots.

Hopefully we can buy it unlocked :o Posted via the Windows Central App for Android

Proof Canadians hate freedom.

Canada ​is a freer country than its southern neighbor

Mexico? /s

Lol, if you mean the cartel freeing you of your head.  Sure!

Um darling the US is below Canada :)
And truth be told the big 3 including Mexico all suck. Nothing new

Everyone just hammer the carriers on twitter. Should help some

Yes. I've already started.

Somebody said DOA couple months ago.

Youre wrong, typeIt2k. These phones are on the third most popular phone ecosystem, on the planet. Sure, it may be a vastly smaller percentage, but still vastly popular. It's like saying a million people, is not a lot of people, because there are over 7 billion people. A million, is still a lot of people, regardless. There are many millions, who enjoy windows phones. Not sure the exact numbers, but regardless. These phones dont have to be ordered by the millions. They should still have a few thousand each, for their customers, who prefer Windows Mobile's ecosystem. If your grocer, didnt carry the food YOU liked, regardless whether many others eat that item, you'd take your business to where they DO carry it, or go find at least the missing items, at an alternative grocer. So, a grocer might carry a limited number of said item, or special order it, for you, to keep you, his customer happy. So why cant these carriers di that? They are exempt, because they are the Gods Of The Airwaves? If you like asking for X, and only being arbitrarily offers a choice of Y, or Z, then whatever. But I find the choice of IOS, or Android, is the same as no choice at all. Tell your carriers what YOU want. Or take your custom elsewhere. Microsoft, if your listening, you should also offer a monthly payment plan, like Apple does, where folks can get these phones, and MS Complete warranty, for around $27/mo. (950), and $32/mo. (950XL). You would find these phones in more hands, and the carries would see their SIM in these phones, and realize they left money on the table.

At $32 a month even I could afford that and I'm unemployed and broke

Then you could have saved that $32 each month for the last two years there was no flagship and have $768 to spend on a phone today.

Yea a million is still a million out of 7 billion. And they may be a million but they mean nothing when compared to the population as a whole dun dun dun. I'll rather cater to the 1 billion Android users

This world isn't created equal. Consider this a Apple and Android world.

There is always full price unlocked option...

Fuck them then!! When it blows up they'll all be clamoring to sell when their customers go asking.

Oh honey...

December is still far enough away and I suspect Rogers, Telus or Bell will offer something, one colour only of course (Black). Canadian launches of Windows Phones have typically been like 5 - 10 devices per store MAYBE. They still sell more Blackberry models than Windows Phone!  Windows Phone does not exist in Candian carriers minds so they don't offer them, therefore they don't sell well; they don't sell well, so they don't want to offer them. Derp.  But that's the state of North American carriers and the market in general to be fair. I will likely just have to purchase a couple 950's outright for my wife and I. We love our Windows Phones.  

I wouldn't bank on that, especially with Bell.

No suprise there,friend went Canada recently and had to go into a cell store to see a lumina phone...streets were littered sith iPhone and Samsungs Posted via the Windows Central App for Android

Thank God there's no Carrier problem in India..

The sales people heavily push iAndroid anyway so why bother selling them in the stores. This will be fine if MS markets them well and market them smartly, but what are this chances of that? : /

Even if they do carry one or both these phones, eventually, it will a different ball game when it comes to updates. At this rate, they wouldn't even give a damn.

That is unfortunate. I didn't really want to buy outright. Still holding out hope they will.

Omg if this is true then its pretty much game over for WP in Canada. Why would they make Canadian based apps (banking etc). I really hope its not true. Not many people can afford to buy these things unlocked. I really hope this is not true. This would be awful.

If no carrier will pick up the Lumia's then Microsoft should be prepared for record low sales. I see this affecting the app momentum already. I'm just gonna study the sales before I pick one.

One has to say a premium Windows phone is a niche market product.  I think carriers will be more interested in selling Windows Phone into the value market if any. At least in North America where it is seen as not a growth industry. In the EU where there are a lot more Windows phones I'd expect it to be easily available.

Is anyone really surprised?  They have limited shelf space and they aren't going to be moving many units of these anyway.  It would just take away from space that could be LG, Samsung, HTC, or Apple.

If MSFT can't convince the carriers, or the carriers don't care to carry the phones, then I think MSFT should try and strike a deal with a financing company and offer financing options similar to how Apple just started doing. I'm buying my phone outright from MSFT, but I can see a lot of people not wanting to do that. It's simply how the US market is conditioned to buy phones. I don't think MSFT is strong enough in mobile to go against the current and succeed. 

I dont feel it is the fault of carriers either. This is due to current situation of failure of the software in the past and current situation. Carriers decide according to historical data and the potential of new product. If Microsoft manages to lure customers at the time of launch, customers will surely pressurize their carriers to bring lumias on board. How can Carriers get the confidence on Lumia over iphone and androids in this current situation where there is a greater chance of returning of Lumia and customer asking for iphone/android. Microsoft have to show them the potential before launch and profit after the launch. Nobody from Android/iphone boat cares about Lumias and if they do, that number is very poony for the carrier to make the move. Come on Microsoft, make some strategy to bring app developers on board ASAP. No product is good, if it is not a good seller.

But why can't carriers just purchase limited stock of these phones if they don't want to carry any risk of losing sales? Order a few hundred and see if the sell. If they do order more. If they don't then their losses are very limited. How many people can afford to spend near $1000 on a phone outright? I'm sure most average Canadians don't have that kind of expendable cash.

Here's the thing.  What harm would it do for them to offer each phone?  These are small phones, not large vehicles taking up space on the lot.

Because every space provide to a Windows Phone is taking the place of a phone that in all likelyhood is more likely to sell.

Doesn't supprise me, Canadian carriers are too greedy, they want total control over what you do and use. Me, I had to buy my Lumia 920 (unlocked) out of Canada, and it works great, currently with Bell. Now it's time to upgrade and I am glad that now I can purchase the unlocked 950xl right from Microsoft Canada, can't wait for this great improvement 

Should be interesting to see if the OS survives with not much of North America carrying the new flagships. Waiting to see how much of the world passes on these devices.

For the rest of the world, it would probably not be much different. For the U.S., it will matter. The majority of the smartphones in the U.S. are purchased through the carriers. It will take some time for that trend to change. 

It can't:  no U.S. support and availability outside of one model on AT&T, that won't be pushed, or direct from Microsoft, means no further developer support.   Devs don't make apps for devices nobody can buy. You can kiss the hopes of luring Android and iOS developers good-bye.

There loss

OMG! ...They have cellphones in CANADA?

What's that all aboot?

I choked on my coffee. Thanks.

You forgot -> /S

End of the day I would rather talk to someone who knows/cares about the phones than a Rogers employee anyway. They're immediately dismissive of the ecosystem (my experience since the 920 release). Hope MS considers doing a plan like Apple in store.

I live in Canada, I'll just buy it unlocked. Who wants to be tied to this prigs for two years anyway. I went unlocked with my 1520 early last year. Best thing I ever did. I'll never buy on contract again.

I ripped Rogers on their Facebook page for this after playing dumb asking if they would get the 950. Thank god for the MS Store offering them. But for anyone else like looking to not pay almost $1000CAN after taxes is definitely going to pass on this phone. Which will result in significantly lower sales #'s. Way more that ever before. I'm willing to bet my local flagship store in Toronto doesn't sell more than 1000 units this year. Regardless, I'll be preordering my XL today. But it's sad to think Blackberry of all phones is getting more marketing and exposure by carriers here than Microsoft phones. What a joke.

I'd prefer to buy an unlocked phone from the Microsoft store anyway. What the Canadian carriers do is irrelevant to me and has been for a long time.

That's disappointing. Coming from Europe to Canada, I get the impression, most the carriers here are behind on what they offer their customers compared to many other countries, yet they all seem to think they have quality, efficient systems and services.

What carriers don't understand is that these phones aren't just ordinary old Windows Phones of the past, these phones are also PC's which would make big sales in enterprise if they sold them.

Microsoft store needs in house financing now. Telus Bell and Rogers can get - - - - - -! I'll be contacting Telus threatening to leave I am now off contract!

Not the fault of carrier's, its been a year and the software (phone one) look miserable. If the phones were show cased with the genuine OS then there would be a huge change in demand.. Hardware is just awesome but again if it had the stable , perfect OS with it in time..

Yet BlackBerry, with less market share(worldwide), still has 3-5 display untis at almost every Rogers I've ever been into (they don't display any of their Windows devices 1/3 of the locations I've seen)

Blackberry has a long tradition and a much much larger user base in Canada. I remember when one of the RoBelUs mentioned they will not carry one of the BB10 devices, there was so much backlash that the CEO went to the press and said he will make sure they will carry all BB devices... I am actuall happy that they are still alive, it is still a pretty good OS and the device quality is much better than most Droids and Apple. 

Stupid syrup suckers.

Actually, the problem is not with the "Syrup suckers" (An insult to all Canadian - not cool), the CEOs of the big three - Oligopoly are actually American (AKA "Junk food suckers"), if they would have been true Canadians all OS and devices will be available.  

LOL, I'm so glad that offended someone. I feared that humanity had stopped regressing into even more of a bunch of overly sensitive babies. P.S. I'm American and like both syrup and junk food. You're going to need to try harder to offend me or hurt my feelings, as I'm not a gigantic baby about such jokes.

IMO Microsoft keeps missing it's chance to make a dent in the market share "game", and the carriers won't show love until they do. The presenters at their event were fantastic, Hololens is badass, SP4 is awesome, surface book is a beast.... Then there's the 950s and the band 2...all 3 look to be decent, but lack the WOW factor MS needs. Decent doesn't sale, and you're playing catch up... Life is about timing, a Surface branded phone...built in the vein as the surface pros...introduced at THAT event...would have been gold!!! IMO...

I think its time to pre order a nexus or Motorola where the android os is getting exciting with android m... Thought they wont match the smoothness of wp... They have come a long way...
While wm10 doesnt look promising or good at all... Unfortunately, I think the most capable mobile os has lost its way...i can see within 5yrs windows re launched as a diffrnt brand or no longer existing...

I'm probably getting a Moto too depending on WM goes.

Did you not see the demo this week?  If anything win 10 mobile looks to the the most capable out of all windows mobile OS.

I did but I don't want to screwed again like WP7, Windows RT users.

I've never even seen a 640 on display at Rogers here yet, so not surprising that they don't want to sell the 950s. Unlocked from MS it is.

Lol. Blackberry need all the help the can get. If it wasn't for there other business they would be gone. But its a shame as like the new blackberry passports. And I have one. But I cant see it lasting.

Wow, this is the 1st time that the Microsoft store in Canada has been able to offer us flagship phones unlocked from day one!

Not surprised at all. I was expecting this... Canada has never been a good market for WP.

Canadian carriers must have a backroom deal with Blackberry to keep Windows Phone out of the market.

Given that Windows Phone has 10%+ market share, and growing, in many countries outside of North America, it seems to me the failure of Windows Phone in North America can directly be attributable to the failure of North American carriers to properly promote and sell Windows Phone. We've all heard the stories of NA carriers deliberately steering people away from Windows Phone. This even happened to my mom recently who picked up a 640XL. The AT&T idiot was trying to tell her how hard Windows Phone was to use and that she should get an iPhone. So she showed my mom the 640 and asked her how to check email. My mom said, you tap the email icon, just like on my Windows desktop. Fucking idiot. The failure of Windows Phone has little to do with the platform. Rather, NA carriers are, in my opinion, mostly to blame. No, Windows Phone wouldn't have overtaken Android or iOS, but if Windows Phone had the same 10%+ market share the carriers would be falling all over themselves to sell the devices.

Your story with at&t really shocked me

Sarcasm I hope

In Canada, blackberry still owns 15% of the market, WP owns a meezily 1%. Apple is king here last time reported last year had them at 41%, Android with 43%.

+920 in many countries where WP is actually an option, and not ridiculed, it's amazing to see the disparity in market share compared to NA.

People returning phones costs money to the carriers, therefore they push the phones that most people would be less likely to return.  Do you think fledgling desktop OSes love competing against the Windows juggernaught?  Most people are encouraged to buy Windows PCs because it is whats most likely to suit what they want to do with a computer.  Thats the same reason most people don't buy Windows Phones.

Then explain the much higher adoption rates outside of North America. And those rates are growing for WP. I think W10M will quicken the non-NA adoption rate.

What reason do you have for the belief that W10M will have a higher adoption rate than WP8?

Excuse my language but... Fking cariers..

How on 2015 you release a product that no person can buy?
They should have gave out to the audience last Tuesday.
I cannot even buy it! Where? When? How? Impossible to be successful like this Posted via the Windows Central App for Android

Canadians can barely sell BlackBerry... :P  

Still owns 15% of the market

I'm truly a annoyed that Rogers won't be carrying the 950 and the 950XL. One thing Microsoft should consider doing is offering a 24 month payment plan. It may be difficult for potential buyers used to purchasing phones at reduced rates through their carriers to pay $749 or $849 in one lump sum.

Just called Orlando store.
They do not even having a date for the phone.
You can order and do not know when it will arrive.
It is stupid. Stop. Period.
It is Microsoft.
What a shame How to blame anyone? Great release of a product that no one can buy

Fine, I'll just be the cool kid in town.

Microsoft should white liable a carrier and sell their own service.

This is where the Canadian market for mobile totally blows and I blame the carriers, not MS. Unfortunately there are alot of isheep and mindless zombies who just follow the crowd instead of using their brains to do a little more research and see what's out there! I bought the 1520 unlocked from ebay and use it here, great thing is I can travel with it and use it in other places as well. Totally love the 1520 and would buy a second one or the 950 XL down the road! I'd say buy it unlocked if you can or wait for the price to drop a bit - don't rely on the silly carriers!! Great job from MS with coming out with something such as the 950 (great camera, micro SD option, removable battery and wireless charging). I'm sticking with my Lumia!! = )

I will agree with the carriers on this one. They don't need to make Microsoft phone big, they have the iPhone and Android which has the market share.
If Microsoft wants market share they need to spend the money for that.
Microsoft is for rebooting it hardware and software and I have been on the receiving end of this many times and so has the carriers/partners (ken, windows phone 7, RT, Vista, 8.1, etc.) TheManFromEarth

Yes and Android and iOS are both the same as when they started... So sick of this reboot talk.... MS updates their mobile os and it's a reboot... IOS/google change theirs and it's the greatest thing ever. It's called progress of you don't like it go get a Motorola razr flip phone - those won't change.

Android and iOS generally don't go through devolution

I'm just glad they'll be avaiable as unlocked devices from MS. Carriers in general can go boink themselves in the corner for all I care. Friggin' crooks.

For the US anyway I think MS needs to market the crap out of it for ATT. And make models available for every other carrier unlocked. I'm on Verizon and I won't buy anything other than nexus from them due to slow updates. I do hope MS make a payment plan lime the new iPhones as well.

Canada and productivity dont tend to go hand in hand anyways... ;)

This is because all carriers are interested in the big toy( iPhone 6) they just put it and watch how dump people put there mony on it

I'm not at all surprised by this (preliminary) announcement. Canadian carriers are known for being diks...especially the "big three". The Canadian wireless consumers are truly being bent over by these companies.

The big three are the only carriers. National carriers at least. They own 90% of the market. Ofc its an oligopoly

Conspiracy against Microsoft at it's best!

Then sell them without the carriers, do what you have to do. If the OEM's won't make hardware make it yourself. If carriers won't sell your hardware, sell it yourself. Microsoft simply cannot/should not allow itself to be beholden to carriers. Provide purchase options for customers like installments, etc and you will do a heck of a job promoting and selling your devices than any carrier store employee ever could.

950xl

Maybe because I am old, but it just doesn't seem that complicated to me. There is a product that I actually want to own. It exists, so 99% of the obstacles have been removed for me the consumer. I simply have to decide on how (or can I) to pay for it. Choice 1 (American Culture preference) "How much is it a month?" Choice 2  Pay for it up front. I'll use option 2, but I clearly understand someone choosing Option 1. But I can't for the life of me comprehend someone making the argument that they WANT this product REALLY bad, but will NOT enjoy having it because they will ONLY use Option 1 if a cell phone carrier is actually the lender? Cell phone carriers ARE the problem with Option 1. Using them as a lender has led to so many things that are not in the consumers best interest. Personaly I am happy to witness the apparant shifting in the business model of American Cellular providors. And I don;t blame Microsft or Cellular companies for the whole mess. I blame us. The American consumer. But alas, enough of us are starting to see through the smoke and mirrors and things are changing, albeit a bit painful for those who think Option 1 has to be through a cellular providor.

Very sad for Canadian customers. Any how I prefere to have an unlock device.

I think MS understand they can't beat droid and ios; they're too far along. These phones are for the wp fans, and though I'm a little disappointed, I appreciate it, and plan to get the white 950xl.

So glad I'm not living in a country where carriers haven't got the power to dictate which phones we can choose... Lots of choices and no real disadvantages in choosing an uncommon device! B-)

Microsoft should suck it up and give its phones to T-mobile as well

I look forward to having an amazingly unique phone, with a nice custom backplate - accompanied by my Band2 - and pulling them out at every opportunity. My 1520 got all sorts of questions, I imagine the 950XL will as well. I've brought 5 pople in personally, and one of those people has an office of 35 buying into the ecosystem. Word of mouth in the North will get the traction these phones need. F*** the carriers.

Exactly!!!!!!

Microsoft needs to provide carriers with an incentive to carry these phones. I guess these will be the last of the Windows Phones.

It was going to be anyway.

Doesn't surprise me...carriers want to ditch WinPhone in favor of iPhone and Android...saw this coming since Nadella took over.

All carriers in US and Canada just want a piece of cake that MS gave AT&T ...

aaannd the stigma lives on. lol! i want that XL tho.

It just annoys me that Apple has co-branded TV commercials with the carriers that I have to see every time I turn on the TV.  Why can't Microsoft offer to produce similar co-branded ad campaigns?  The reason nobody buys Windows phones is that nobody even knows that they exist.  The carriers can put them on the shelves, but word-of-mouth advertising can only go so far towards making sales.  And the sales people in the carrier's storefronts certainly weren't pushing Windows phones.  Microsoft needs to step up their game when it comes to advertising these products. I was planning on buying unlocked for my next phone anyway, so I'm glad to see that I'll be able to purchase directly from the Microsoft Store.

And I know why, MS will not pay as much backhands as the rest. That's why. You dont need to be a rocket scientest to understand that!!!  

And I know why, MS will not pay as much backhands as the rest. That's why. You dont need to be a rocket scientest to understand that!!!  

Snooze. Who cares. Canada isn't even as large as California. I would imagine Roger and Bell insisted on a big slice and MSFT saif forget it. This is a long game for MSFT they know they are far behind and have to build up subsidizing Canadian telecoms companies isn't part of that strategy.   This headline is really the equivalent of saying Cricket Wirless isn't going to sell the 950/950XL.. Yawn.

Come on carriers get with it !!! These are awesome phones !!!! Microsoft needs to push the Canadian carriers !!!!! I want this phone !!!

Ok this is get bad

Another reason Canada sucks....

Why these western countries have carrier plans. They should kick that carrier concept. Its definitely a roadblock from selling hardware to providing software updates.

Again, it shouldn't matter. Buy it directly through Microsoft. If enough people buy it from MS and AT&T (and possibly TMobile if they can work something out), then other carriers could change their tune on whether it's worth stocking and promoting. If you want to help the cause then by one from MS.

I guess I won't wait for Rogers then, I'll have to order an unlocked one from MS. :(

Hope my local carriers get it, but i have no problem with buying it from MS Store

That's fine with me... I always buy them out full... Don't like to owe money to anyone

Nothing new here. All they offer are low and mid range crap. If I didn't order my 1520 in February from BPH I would be still waiting for a flagship.
Microsoft should have made all their flagship devices available unlocked at all their stores and online years ago.
I gave up on carriers the day I got my 1520. All unlocked devices going forward.

Microsoft has essentially ignored the Canadian market since windows phone was first conceived. Its no surprise nobody wants them here.

Not exactly. They gave out free Xbox 360s with wp7 at a time.

What does this mean for getting updates? Do the carriers approve the updates and push out via their network? I have a backup L920 with no sim and its a couple of versions behind my main L920 with a Rogers sim.

If this turns out to be the case, I will be most displeased. I will just have to buy one at Microsoft's store.

I don't know why people are still blaming MS. MS was never thinking of entering the mobile business serious until it partnered with nokia. But now it is because of u or us people it is making so much efforts. And how is this not a game changer. Yes we don't have Cortana in every country region yes we don't have every financial personal app but look at how fast MS pushed the Windows Phone and also Windows alongside it to make both as Universal Platform. I too almost gave up until this conference. It's not a surprise that windows is used by more than 3/4th of the world. But that doesn't mean MS can straight out become no 1 in mobile business. I see MS growing slowly and steadily. Rome was not built in a day.

What about collapse?

Canadiann Carriers REALLY suck this way.  Anything Iphone - they are all over it.  Anything to do with choice - NOTHING!!! That's why I bought my Lumia 930 unlocked from a third party. It was not offered on the Microsoft Store in Canada.   At least this time they are offering to sell it on their store, unlocked.   Just make sure the support your carriers bands... Yeah Microsoft! Boo Canadian carriers! Mr. V

Poopie... Thanks for nothin Rogers.

guyssss this is NOT good start. Maybe it's end before begun?????????? Microsoft mistake? carriers F.... Windows mobile 10? I think this is BIG FAIL. :( :( Lumia 950 XL perfect smartphone but .......  

This is your punishment for Justin Bieber Canada...  Deal with it. lol

I'm glad there's at least a way to buy the phones, but why won't our dumb carriers embrace these wonderful phones?

No carrier support means I cannot get it subsidized. If I'm going to buy a phone off contract. I cannot pay those prices. Microsoft should had then priced it the same as the Nexus phones if they knew they would not get carrier support. They need it at cost. I'm a huge Windows Phone fan, but I'm not sure Microsoft even wants this to succeed. I believe this may be the end of Windows Phone. The writing was on the wall before these phones were announced, but I was not convinced. Now with very limited carrier support, you can write this one off as a loss. Nexus 6X or 6P will likely be my next phone. Why care for a product that even Microsoft is showing little interest in pushing.

WTF!?!?!? This was going to be my upgrade phone on Rogers...what a crock of crap.

To be fair, its really closer to 35%, look at what MC/Visa charges u on the FX rate. I went to pax last month and $47 USD came out to $66CAD

Pretty saddening.... but i'm getting this phone no matter what. I'm gonna give MS and Win 10 mobile a try, I still enjoy the ecosystem better than Google and android

MS should have called the Canadian variants of the 950/950XL, iPhone 950 and iPhone 950S or S950/Note950 and then they would carry it.
Most of the users I see here haven't got a clue about smart phone so they just get iPhone/Samsung.

Microsoft should adopt a trade in plan for Canadians. Give me a discount on my new 950xl and ill give you back your 830? Ill continue being a Microsoft phone fan.