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GPS On the Mogul Coming: CONFIRMED

Listen up, Mogul owners: we have some happy news to report, following up on some previous noodling and speculation about GPS on the Mogul. Sprint has posted an official statement about their ROM hijinks:

The Bad News:

So the last ROM update for the Sprint Mogul didn't go so hot - Sprint is currently suggesting you downgrade to deal with some nagging bluetooth issues - the very issues the upgrade was supposed to help with.

The Good News:

They intend to make a fix available by the end of the month.

The Awesome News:

Additionally, HTC is currently developing a separate ROM update which enables the EV-DO Rev. A and GPS capabilities that are already built into the Mogul hardware.  Sprint and HTC plan to make this software ROM available in early 1Q 2008. We would also like to extend our thanks to those customers that have taken the time to identify and report these issues to us.

Read: Buzz About Wireless

Thanks to Doc31 and TC99 for the tip! Looks like Malatesta was right, Sprint is indeed turning on GPS for WM devices!

WC Staff
WC Staff
33 Comments
  • More like Malatesta was wrong for insisting for a year than CDMA carriers will never get WM phones with GPS built-in, until the evidence to the contrary became overwhelming.
    Surur
  • More like Malatesta was wrong for insisting for a year than CDMA carriers will never get WM phones with GPS built-in, until the evidence to the contrary became overwhelming.
    Surur
    To be fair, I'm more than a little surprised by this turn myself. It took overwhelming evidence for me to believe it.
  • Now here is the interesting part - hacking the Mongol ROM may enable GPS on the Sprint Touch....
    Surur
  • Well the dets on the touch mentioned the GPS thing so they'll likely release the update at the same time.
  • More like Malatesta was wrong for insisting for a year than CDMA carriers will never get WM phones with GPS built-in, until the evidence to the contrary became overwhelming.
    Surur
    How you figure?
    The Mogul, like every device on Sprint, has a gpsOne chipset, not a standalone SirfIII chip--so we are still talking about aGPS here.
    That puts the Mogul in the same camp as the ppc-6600, ppc-6700, 700w, Moto Q and Touch as far as aGPS hardware e.g. there is NO internal GPS antenna in the Mogul.
    The *only* difference here is what I mention in my article: they finally either figured out how to do aGPS on CDMA WM devices and/or Sprint decided to have HTC enable that feature.
    I never insisted "...for a year than CDMA carriers will never get WM phones with GPS built-in" but rather we won't see GPS or aGPS until Sprint/Verizon decide to take advantage of the technology that is already exists on each device.
    The Mogul and Touch are both getting ROM updates to enable aGPS and I think it is obvious every WM device in the future will have this enabled. (Likewise, the 700wx, Moto Q and 6700 could all have this enabled if ROM support was still provided and Sprint wanted it).
    There is still no mention of Verizon following suit in this regard (any rumors for GPS in the i607 or their Mogul? I'm not aware of any). Carrier choice.
    And why would I insist otherwise? [URL="http://support.sprint.com/doc/sp10550.xml?id16=sp10550">Every WM device[/URL] that has been released on Sprint has come with the mentioning of "GPS" as a feature. Then the rumors follow: "I heard that Sprint will be enabling GPS in a ROM update". This has been going on since 2005, so yeah...a lot of us were skeptical.
    There was no "overwhelming" evidence until Sprint just came out and officially said something (coincidentally after my article mentions it). I guess it is simple in hindsight for you to proclaim it was "overwhelming" although you never chimed in on the subject to say as much at the time, which makes your current assessment quite suspect.
  • How you figure?
    The Mogul, like every device on Sprint, has a gpsOne chipset, not a standalone SirfIII chip--so we are still talking about aGPS here.
    My Kaiser has the same type of Qualcomm GPSOne circuitry, and it does stand alone GPS just fine without any help of the carriers.
    The issue has always been that there is no reason for it not to work, i.e. there was no reason for you to be so certain it will never come along.
    Surur
  • I'd say there was *plenty* of reason, given carriers spotty history with providing ROM updates and feature updates when they'd rather just sell you a new device.
    The real question for me is whether or not they'll be trying to lock some of this gps stuff down or not.
  • Wow. Surur, come on. I have never had any kind of GPS on a Sprint phone, and that alone is reason to suspect that I never would have it on a device that came to market without the feature enabled.
    That said, this argument is stupid and pointless. I'll just be happy to have something to tell me where a damn Starbucks is, even if it only gets me within 300 meters! I can smell my way from there.
  • My Kaiser has the same type of Qualcomm GPSOne circuitry, and it does stand alone GPS just fine without any help of the carriers.
    The issue has always been that there is no reason for it not to work, i.e. there was no reason for you to be so certain it will never come along.
    Surur
    Surur, let me put this in straight terminology for you: You have no idea what you are talking about. (In fact, when someone actually explained aGPS to you in accurate and coherent terms, you wrongly dismissed it). I suggest studying your device a bit more.
    The Kaiser has gpsOne. True. It can also operate in standalone. True.
    Why is that? It has an internal GPS antenna that is plexed to the gpsOne chipset. This should be obvious as the device needs a system to connect to the satellites directly without the assisted servers from your carrier.
    That is an optional configuration on gpsOne devices:gpsOne can operate in 4 modes:* Standalone - Your handset has no connection to the network, and uses only the GPS satellite signals it can currently receive to try and establish a location.* MS Based - Your handset is connected to the network, and uses the GPS signals + a location signal from the network.* MS Assisted - Your handset is connected to the network, uses GPS signals + a location signal then relays its 'fix' to the server, which then uses the signal strength from your phone to the network towers to further plot your position. You can still maintain voice communication in this scenario, but not 'Internet/Network service' ie Web Browser, IM, streaming TV etc..* MS Assisted/Hybrid - Same as above, but network functionality remains. Normally only in areas with exceptional coverage.The Mogul does *not* have an internal GPS antenna. There is no evidence that it will operate without a data connection (i.e. it is reliant on the aGPS servers).
    In other words, the Mogul is not the Kaiser.
    Also, I was never "certain it will never come along". I've always said the same thing: we will get aGPS in WM device when the carriers let us. Find a quote to prove me otherwise. That is the case here: we are getting aGPS because Sprint is letting us have aGPS (has Telus and Verizon done the same yet? Keep me posted). There was no previous way to hack your way around missing APIs to get at Sprint's aGPS data and with no internal GPS antenna on any Sprint device, no way to enter standalone mode. Is any of this sinking in yet? :rolleyes: All of Sprint's phones that can do aGPS have to use the data network connection: none can do standalone, not even the international BB. Does that sound like your Kaiser?
    Either way, this is not about me or what I said, but about Sprint finally enabling aGPS on WM devices. Something that has never happened before and has been on their cheap flip phones and BlackBerry's literally for years now. That is something for people to be very excited about, especially for those who are quite let down by the Mogul (poor BT, not enough memory, memory leaks)--this will at least help salvage that device by adding a new feature.
    Dieter raises a good question:The real question for me is whether or not they'll be trying to lock some of this gps stuff down or not.
    Will we have to use Sprint services or will we be free to use anything? Will TomTom recognize the internal aGPS port? Will Windows Live Search? It'll be very exciting to see what we actually get with this update (and whether it can be hacked further).
  • Why is that? It has an internal GPS antenna that is plexed to the gpsOne chipset. This should be obvious as the device needs a system to connect to the satellites directly without the assisted servers from your carrier.
    That is an optional configuration on gpsOne devices:
    OK Malatesta I have to ask since I've been following the several threads on the aGPS for a while now; where does it say that a GPS antenna is added to the chipset?
    Its seem to me even while it in "assist" mode the chipset "reads" info from GPS sats i.e. GPS antenna and then sends that info to the severs to do the data processing. This is what all the dumb phone do now. I haven't seen anywhere where it says it using triangulation to provide location(I think its is the E911 is required to do atleast).
    So the gpsOne chipset has an antenna it uses alot or a little or should I say the chipset is the antenna.
    I'm just putting 2 and 2 together so correct me if I'm wrong. The gpsOne technology functions in four different modes of operation. Chosen automatically or specified by software, the
    four modes are Standalone GPS, Mobile Station (MS)-based, MS-assisted and MS-assisted/Hybrid. In the A-GPS modes,
    gpsOne technology utilizes assistance data from a location server in the wireless network in combination with A-GPS circuitry
    and software in the wireless device
  • OK Malatesta I have to ask since I've been following the several threads on the aGPS for a while now; where does it say that a GPS antenna is added to the chipset?
    Its seem to me even while it in "assist" mode the chipset "reads" info from GPS sats i.e. GPS antenna and then sends that info to the severs to do the data processing. This is what all the dumb phone do now. I haven't seen anywhere where it says it using triangulation to provide location(I think its is the E911 is required to do atleast).
    So the gpsOne chipset has an antenna it uses alot or a little or should I say the chipset is the antenna.
    I'm just putting 2 and 2 together so correct me if I'm wrong.
    Phew, this is going to probably get a bit technical and I'll be honest: I'm relying on others much smarter and more involved in this than I.
    So, for instance, I'm deffering partially to Shadowmite (who has an almost legendary following on TC and is quite proficient on these matters) when he says this:
    It can plex the antenna inputs all into the chip, but DOES need a tuned antenna outside the chip for proper data. Your phone lacks this. It's not going to get any better, you have the same situation as the 8525.
    aGPS is supposed to use some sat data IF available, however in most applications it is NOT available, and the antenna signal levels are all sent back to sprint's location server which triangulates your position and sends it back out. Without the proper GPS antenna you have no hope of entering standalone mode properly, you'll be able to yes... But the same as the TyTN you'll end up with nothing but a noise floor signal and no hope of getting a fix.
    If you notice in the diagram of your msm7500 you'll see the PCS/Cell antenna can operate alone in duplex mode, or in a triplexed mode with a DIFFERENT antenna, one that is actually tuned to the GPS bands as well. You don't have that. We'd be able to see it inside the phones case if you did (unless I'm completely blind or missing something obvious). Without that antenna it's proof the phone has been built on the duplex design instead...
    Reply With Quote
    Furthermore, for an analogous situation, the 8525 is a good one. Here are some relevant posts (sorry for the disorder):http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1114389&postcount=132http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1114490&postcount=138http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1114722&postcount=158http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1114780&postcount=169http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1115042&postcount=201http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1115074&postcount=209http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1115254&postcount=215http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1116906&postcount=226http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1292590&postcount=721http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1319452&postcount=729
    And the sad conclusion?INBUILT GPS FOR HERMES DOESN'T AND WILL NEVER WORK
    Thread locked
    I'm also attaching the schematics of where the GPS antenna is supposed to be on one of these devices.
    When Murph24 took apart his Mogul there was zero evidence of an internal GPS antenna being present (understand, the "antenna" is more or less a few connections on the board with a tiny piece of metal).
    This also explains why the international BB does not operate on a GSM network: simply put, it can't do standalone.
    The HTC Tilt actually has a buldge on the back where you can pull of the piece of rubber and connect an external GPS antenna to the internal one to better increase reception. This too is lacking on every Sprint WM device which should tell you something. Plus, on most sites that list specs fo the Tilt, you'll see them mention: GPS antenna: Internal antenna. There is a reason why they go out of their way to specify that feature on that phone and not others--it doesn't exist on others ;)
    I hope that helps a bit. :o
  • The Mogul does *not* have an internal GPS antenna.
    Malatesta, are you sure of this? Someone over at HoFo posted a picture of the innards of the Mogul from the FCC approval that purportedly shows an internal GPS antenna.
    Here's a link to the discussion over there. BTW, I wasn't able to follow your Mogul-specific embedded links.
  • Sorry, my embedded link also did not work. Here's an old-fashioned link to the discussion over at HoFo:
    http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1252323&page=84&pp=15
  • However this unfolds it will be interesting.
  • Malatesta, are you sure of this? Someone over at HoFo posted a picture of the innards of the Mogul from the FCC approval that purportedly shows an internal GPS antenna.
    Am I sure? Nope. As mentioned above I'm relying on other people who have more expertise on this than I. (In all of these discussions all I've ever done is recapitulated other people's findings or knowledge).
    Having said that, I've never seen that picture and I stand corrected: the Mogul does appear to have an internal GPS antenna:Link to actual FCC photos (warning: large PDF)
    Quite curious that Shadowmite had missed this as well as everyone else at ppcgeeks and the other forums :o
    Here are some relevant photos from a Sprint 6800, though it's hard to confirm if it's actually there. Interestingly, they seemed to have been looking in the wrong spot:http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/94tbird/DSCN0210.jpghttp://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/94tbird/DSCN0208.jpghttp://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b238/94tbird/DSCN0219.jpg
    It's hard to tell in the 1st photo if it's there or not, though I presume it is. Too bad they don't have side FCC shots.
    Going even further, the Sprint Touch also lists an "internal GPS antenna".
    So now it comes together:
    [LIST=1]
    [*]Mogul and Touch both have an internal GPS antenna
    [*]This antenna is required for Standalone aGPS (edit: but not for server assisted aGPS--otherwise all Sprint flips would have an internal antenna)
    [*]Previous Sprint WM devices did *not* have these antennas (for whatever reason) (Edit: so they should still be able to do server assisted aGPS, not standalone)
    [*]Sprint/HTC need to "enable" this feature via firmware i.e. currently it is "locked down" either on purpose, lack of an API or both.
    [/LIST]
    I think that's a fair assessment? Thanks for bringing that photo to our attention.
    Now for some other questions, lol:
    [LIST=1]
    [*]Why did previous devices not have a GPS antenna? It can't cost much
    [*]What does this mean for other WM devices on Sprint, like the upcoming 800w?
    [/LIST]
    Assuming jrinehart is reliable (I think he is)Mal,
    ....
    As far as who decides the build of the phone, technically are decided by Palm. Sprint asks for a feature and Palm says yes or no. Conversely, Palm included true GPS in the 800w (or so I'm told) but Sprint is looking like they will only enable aGPS. It would seem that it goes both ways.
  • Am I allowed to say "I told you so."
    There was really no reason to be so sure.
    Surur
  • Am I allowed to say "I told you so."
    There was really no reason to be so sure.
    Surur
    No Surur because you've contributed nothing to this conversation and provided no evidence or anything of interest. (Going further, I can at least admit when I'm wrong or missing some evidence, something which you are utterly incapable of.)
    For instance, assuming the internal antenna is necessary, why did HTC omit them from previous devices? So when you say someting like this:My Kaiser has the same type of Qualcomm GPSOne circuitry, and it does stand alone GPS just fine without any help of the carriers.
    The issue has always been that there is no reason for it not to work, i.e. there was no reason for you to be so certain it will never come along.
    Surur
    You are 100% wrong. The reason it never worked was because the hardware was crippled on previous devices. Going further, on current devices the hardware is not crippled, but the firmware is.
    It works on your Kaiser not because of the "same GPSOne circuitry" but because you have an internal GPS antenna and your firmware is not crippled. (Why do I have to spell that out for you? :rolleyes: )
    So I still stand by my assertion: we will have aGPS/GPS when the carriers let us.
    That still stands and all of this proves my point.
  • I'll still go ahead and say I told you so.
    Surur
  • I'll still go ahead and say I told you so.
    Surur
    Fine.
    And I'll go ahead and continue to say you do not know what you are talking about and your posts in this thread have clearly demonstrated that.
    ps And you are really acting like a child here. "I told you so"? This is about you, isn't it? You always have to be right. Your arrogance around here is starting to reek.
  • Going even further, the Sprint Touch also lists an "internal GPS antenna".
    So now it comes together:
    [LIST=1]
    [*]Mogul and Touch both have an internal GPS antenna
    [*]This antenna is required for Standalone aGPS (edit: but not for server assisted aGPS--otherwise all Sprint flips would have an internal antenna)
    [*]Previous Sprint WM devices did *not* have these antennas (for whatever reason) (Edit: so they should still be able to do server assisted aGPS, not standalone)
    [*]Sprint/HTC need to "enable" this feature via firmware i.e. currently it is "locked down" either on purpose, lack of an API or both.
    [/LIST]
    1. Agreed and excited as hell
    2. I still have to say an antenna is required for the gpsOne chipset to function period. Not just in standalone mode becuase then it would be just GPS not aGPS. According to the info I read from the there website in aGPS mode the antenna performs a function called in ranging ie I'm xxx mile from sat then sends the info to the sever which ids the cell tower location and process all the data then send back to the phone (much easier on battery). So it much more accurate then triangulation. Sever assist steal required sat data
    3. Argeed. (Edit: so they should still be able to do server/tower triangulation) Use the 700p I was to use the family locator service so I think the proper API wasn't out.
    4. Argeed.
    Finally thought:
    Sprint is giving me GPS/ aGPS on a device I have already have YAY! :D
    I really don't care anymore how it works or even if I need to pay for it. I finally have it as on built-in option and on a device I already own.
    Malatesta and others thanks for the info.
  • 1. Agreed and excited as hell
    2. I still have to say an antenna is required for the gpsOne chipset to function period. Not just in standalone mode becuase then it would be just GPS not aGPS. According to the info I read from the there website in aGPS mode the antenna performs a function called in ranging ie I'm xxx mile from sat then sends the info to the sever which ids the cell tower location and process all the data then send back to the phone (much easier on battery). So it much more accurate then triangulation. Sever assist steal required sat data
    3. Argeed. (Edit: so they should still be able to do server/tower triangulation) Use the 700p I was to use the family locator service so I think the proper API wasn't out.
    4. Argeed.
    Finally thought:
    Sprint is giving me GPS/ aGPS on a device I have already have YAY! :D
    I really don't care anymore how it works or even if I need to pay for it. I finally have it as on built-in option and on a device I already own.
    Malatesta and others thanks for the info.
    Whelp, we might get an answer sooner than later...Moto Q q9c just released yesterday:GPS enabled
    View your approximate location and use available applications to navigate roadways throughout the country.
    [quote="Jonathan">I have my Q9C now and can answer all questions. Google Maps + GPS indeed works! It's very good, especially since driving around it's nice having it.
    In terms of the extended battery, it adds a pretty big bulge in the back. I honestly don't like the bulge, BUT the added time is worth it in my opinion. I haven't had a good full day's worth of use yet, but as of now, I have not needed to charge the battery again. Normally after less than a day, I have to re-charge, but on the newer extended battery, so far so good. (link)
    So that's that: Moto is first on Sprint for a WM device with GPS. It looks to be open at this point as Google Maps works.
    I'm kinda tempted to pick one up, but I'll try to avoid the temptation...
    (So what's HTC's problem with the Touch and Mogul not being GPS enabled when released? :mad: )[COLOR="Red">Edit:[/COLOR] BTW, is it me or is the "Sprint doesn't have the proper API to enable aGPS" argument looking more and more bogus? These look like they are standalone solutions, independent of APIs (unless I'm missing something technical?). So was it Sprint just not wanting or not trying to get GPS? :confused: Guess we'll never know.
  • Why did previous devices not have a GPS antenna? It can't cost much I have had it spelled out quit simply with various technologies from some sources in the national ranks of Sprint corp management.....it is all about attempting to develop a business model to profit from whatever technology in question. This is a HUGE reason why WiFi took SOOOO long to become available on Sprint phones.....Sprint was trying to see how they could make more money with additional WiFi add on services / billing while at the same time scared that they might loose any data revenues if they offered unrestricted WiFi (which these fears turned out to be unfounded).
    I would feel safe in placing a small wager that this mentality had some play in how long GPS has taken to come to WM Sprint devices. See it has been available with the common flip phone because we are mostly stuck with their paid services (or contracted 3rd party services Sprint gets a cut in). WM has a world of GPS software that Sprint cannot take advantage of. If it proves to be limited to only paid services, then it is obvious. If unrestricted then I still hold, with only MHO as evidence in this specific matter, that the delays over the last several years was due in part from Sprint rehashing all of their options with GPS business model services.
  • I have had it spelled out quit simply with various technologies from some sources in the national ranks of Sprint corp management.....it is all about attempting to develop a business model to profit from whatever technology in question.
    Yup, that makes sense too. I remember reading somewhere (and I even put in that 1st article) that the carriers were trying to recoup the costs of implementing e911 by using pay services for GPS.
    Seems odd though that they couldn't think of something to market LBS and WM to profit from. Oh well, looks like we're at the end of the tunnel on this technological conundrum. Seems the carriers are starting to loosen up a bit as competition is really heating up.
    Now if Sprint can just give us MMS on our WM devices we'll be complete :D
  • Now if Sprint can just give us MMS on our WM devices we'll be complete :D No, now if Sprint will unlock their network, we will be complete! :rolleyes: :mad: :cry: This could potentially solve all frustrations with watered down features in the phones with Sprint. See the link in my signature.....
  • No, now if Sprint will unlock their network, we will be complete! :rolleyes: :mad: :cry: This could potentially solve all frustrations with watered down features in the phones with Sprint. See the link in my signature.....
    lol
    Oh I agree with R-UIM 110%.
    Issue is, I got yelled at/harassed/insulted by GadgetFreaky for even bringing it up in August:#47#62#64#65
    [URL="http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=1335724&postcount=68">[/URL]
    etc. etc
    I ultimately concluded with:
    I don't know the technical issues with implementing R-UIM but at least in China, who have a standardized 1x/EvDO network, said this in 2004:The R-UIM technology which is based on the CDMA EV-DO network, a third generation (3G) of mobile telecommunications system, is likely to win official appraisal at the end of this year...
    "There is only little or almost no change to the CDMA operators network system, but a minor change to handset software to enable the R-UIM system," Zhang said.
    --Zhang Zhijiang, director of China Unicom's Technology Department
    So I'd like his input on your drive :p (j/k).
    R-UIM would certainly be the ideal...
  • R-UIM....another example of a great technology held off by debating the business model overweighing the benefits of the customer.
    Take a look at this post:Want to see how easy it is to install a RUIN card in a 6700? Take a look at what Hetal Patel posted over at PDAphoneHome.....I have made Verizon and Sprint PPC6700 based Phone to RUIM Based
    [INDENT][LIST=1]
    [*]You just have to Open the Mother boad and Solder the RUIM Slot into it.
    [*]then after Rebooting it, You have to type ##diag into Phone and then Click to Start and then Connecte to Mini USB of Computer
    [*]then using QPST in Service Programming go to tab 1x HDR the in RUIM Box
    [*]Select RUIM only or RUIM if Avail then again Reboot the PPC and Push the RUIM Card into the Phone
    [*]Your Phone is RUIM Based now
    [/LIST][/INDENT]
    Any More Query please mail me on
    i am from India Using Verizon Phone RUIM Base in Reliance Network
    Reliance Freely gives RUIM card in Indiahetaldp@gmail.com
    Images of how to install it:http://pdaphonehome.com/forums/631814-post14.htmlhttp://discussion.wmexperts.com/showpost.php?p=1315829&postcount=15
    And there you have it.....upgrading a PPC-6700 to a R-UIM capable phone all by yourself at home. I actually had Hetal Patel, the person who posted the above post, PM and confirm that they actually use this phone in India and it worked without a hitch.
  • Damn... :eek:
    So much for the "limitations" to implementing R-UIM.
    Hobbes, you should write an article for WMExperts front page on this ;)
  • Bumpity (and back on topic ;-) )
    FWIW, Shadowmite (returning back to CDMA) took apart his Mogul and to verify those FCC photos about an internal GPS antenna.
    Findings may be surprising if true...
    [quote=shadowmite;132514]ok, www.shadowmite.com/temp/6800-ant1.jpg
    Here's what the fcc pic looks like:www.shadowmite.com/temp/real-ant.jpg
    That's what sprint folks have at least, others please take your own pics to compare if you like. Now on the fcc docs, https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=738594&native_or_pdf=pdf
    at page 11 you can see the massive traces which make up the antenna, ours is trivial and has no actual antenna in it. Furthermore, that massive blotch of copper seems to be shorting it, potentially they put this in INSTEAD of the proper gps antenna is my guess. Give me a little more time to see if there is anything on the other side just not visable through that white plastic...
    [quote=shadowmite;132523]Well, here's my opinion, they type certified it as a GPS capable device. They then REMOVED the real antenna (conspiracy theories?) and replaced it with a shorting loop which is almost a exact match. It's held on by 2 screws, same mount as the real one in that pic. So it's potentially possible to replace with the real part if we can order them, or for that matter, we have the fcc pic, we could duplicate the part ourselves and replace it!
    Here's the catch, we need the radio image at minimum from that fcc model, or a real gps enabled model. I would encourage others with verizon, alltel etc to take pics of this part and post if it's any different. They wouldn't type certify it unless they are selling it to someone... Perhaps a korean model!?EDIT: I've removed the antenna blank from my phone and verified, it is nothing more than a blank, furthermore, we are missing a part of the LNA circuit as pictured at the fcc link:www.shadowmite.com/temp/ant-missing.jpg
    Thoughts?
    Back and forth we go :evil:
  • Dieter raises a good question:
    Will we have to use Sprint services or will we be free to use anything? Will TomTom recognize the internal aGPS port? Will Windows Live Search? It'll be very exciting to see what we actually get with this update (and whether it can be hacked further).
    This is the question I really care about. While I'd prefer standalone GPS over tower assisted GPS, I care more about whether I'll have to shell out more cash to Sprint to use it, and whether the apps I like will work with it. Specifically, TomTom and Windows Live or Google Maps. Even if it is standalone GPS, if the answer to that question is that I must pay Sprint and be locked to their software, it's not exciting to me. What would excite me is the idea that I can use the built in GPS -- even if it's aGPS -- to figure out where I am and plug it into Live Search for free. aGPS means I'd probably hang onto my BT GPS for when I need better accuracy or am out of range, but it would be fabulous to always have some GPS ability, even if basic, available without an external device.
    If we get standalone GPS that is free to use and works with all the apps I want to use, I'll wet myself with joy, but aGPS that is free and compatible will make me very happy as well.
  • This is the question I really care about. While I'd prefer standalone GPS over tower assisted GPS, I care more about whether I'll have to shell out more cash to Sprint to use it, and whether the apps I like will work with it. Specifically, TomTom and Windows Live or Google Maps. Even if it is standalone GPS, if the answer to that question is that I must pay Sprint and be locked to their software, it's not exciting to me. What would excite me is the idea that I can use the built in GPS -- even if it's aGPS -- to figure out where I am and plug it into Live Search for free. aGPS means I'd probably hang onto my BT GPS for when I need better accuracy or am out of range, but it would be fabulous to always have some GPS ability, even if basic, available without an external device.
    If we get standalone GPS that is free to use and works with all the apps I want to use, I'll wet myself with joy, but aGPS that is free and compatible will make me very happy as well.
    of course we won't know, till we know...
    But on the Sprint Moto Q q9c, which has GPS enabled, it is open and unfettered, allowing users to download and use Google Maps and/or Live Search with no problems or tweaking. No guarantee but it's a good sign at least...
  • so im going to go ahead and ask a possible dumb question, even though it seems no one even knows for sure if the mogul does or does not have an internal gps antenna..but, "what about the touch? does it have one or are we really dont know for sure?"
  • so im going to go ahead and ask a possible dumb question, even though it seems no one even knows for sure if the mogul does or does not have an internal gps antenna..but, "what about the touch? does it have one or are we really dont know for sure?"
    It's listed in the manual and specs put out by Sprint/HTC as having an internal antenna...
    What still is not clear is to what extent this antenna is actually needed or whether much smaller devices like the Moto Qq9c/h have an internal antenna as well.
    In fact, the Centro is now being rumored as getting RevA and GPS in Q1 2008 as well. Seems to be a trend ;)
  • so basically the touch should have, "full gps" with that update coming in late january?