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Many US Lumia smartphones still don't have the Denim update six months after launch

In mid-December, the Lumia Denim software update began rolling out around the world starting in China. Six months later, a quick check of the Microsoft Mobile support site (opens in new tab) reveals that the Denim update has made its way to most of the eligible Lumia devices worldwide.

However, there is one large exception to that rule: the United States.

It's not exactly a shock to learn that the US is well behind most of the rest of the world when it comes to Denim updates for the Lumia smartphones, but it's still disappointing. The official United States Denim update list has added a few smartphones in the past few weeks, including the Lumia 1020 from AT&T.

This week, the page was changed to indicate that the unlocked, US country variant for the Lumia 830 can now download its Denim update.

However, that still leaves many phones on the list that lack the over-the-air Denim update. That includes some popular phones such as AT&T's Lumia 520 and the 521 variant from T-Mobile and Metro PCS. AT&T has several phones lacking Denim on the list, including their Lumia 830, the 920 and the 925. Cricket and T-Mobile's Lumia 530 are still awaiting a Denim update, as is the Lumia 1320 from Cricket. All of the Lumia 635 models from Sprint, AT&T, T-Mobile, Cricket and Metro PCS are still awaiting Denim.

It's possible that some carriers will update these phones with both Denim and Windows 8.1 Update 2 in one big OTA download, but that's just a theory for now.

AT&T Lumia 830, where art thou?

Of course, the biggest offender here is AT&T and their Lumia 830. It is the only phone left that can truly benefit from Lumia Denim. That is because Denim is needed for the coveted Lumia Camera 5.0 experience. All the other phones mentioned above e.g. Lumia 530, Lumia 920, Lumia 925, etc. do not gain anything substantial from Denim, as there is no corresponding firmware for those devices. In that sense, Denim is less of a big deal that previous updates.

A recent report claims that the Microsoft will be in control of the update button for the OS. However, Microsoft clarified later that it will give wireless carriers some input in terms of testing any updates before launching them.

Hopefully, Microsoft will be able to issue updates for the OS much quicker than they have in the past. Then again, even in 2015 Android still faces an uphill battle against the carriers, who still control the phones and update approval process often with many delays. Microsoft needs to be careful here as they are both the customer and partner with the carriers too. Without their support, Windows 10 Mobile will fail.

Often, many people say Microsoft should just "bypass the carriers", but this is just not possible. Carriers buy the phones en masse from Microsoft and then promote them in their stores and on TV. If Microsoft takes a too aggressive stance, the carriers will balk at their product and not sell the phones at all. There are reasons why phone manufacturers occasionally fall out of favor with carriers (see Palm, and Nokia years ago). Being blacklisted by any of the US telecoms is just not an option.

Source: Microsoft Mobile (opens in new tab); Thanks to Gary Moore for the tip!

297 Comments
  • That's really sad Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Hwww.
  • Not only US. In Argentina Movistar no denim. And carriers only offer "new" Lumia 630 and 635.
  • Don't whine. Come to India, here carriers don't control us.
  • Wen?
  • But then we would have to deal with "wehn n India"
  • I prefer no denim. can't stand "wen n India" constant whining.
  • Oye there are no carrier's like at&t Verizon sprint in India... Just telecom operators that's all...
  • No thank you, we don't like rolling black outs and a caste system...
  • rolling blackouts?  Dude, do you even know what you're yapping about?
  • No, your right, no electricity in the country for the most part to begin with...
  • Seriously didn't expect an 'educated' American (I'm assuming you are American) to talk like this about India... Maybe you should try visiting here once and then talk like you know everything... Going by your logic then why is Windows so popular here in India? It's best if we start discussing than making prejudiced and immature comments like you...
  • I was only playing based in another's suggestion to live in India... If I came would you welcome me with open arms? I would love to visit.
  • Be my guest... One thing I can guarantee you is that you will fall for the local food BIG TIME !!!
  • Geez, I'm hungry now...
  • Americans aren't educated... at least not most of them... Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • We only needed one...Oppenheimer, whom created the nuclear bomb making the world our bitch...ignorant mother fucker..
  • A big problem is carriers..im guessing? But what I dont understand is why carriers have a say in this? Isn't it "Microsoft Windows phone"? Or is it "Sprint windows phone"? Or some other carrier? Why cant msft force these updates? Hopefully things change with Win10....
  • Because in the US, each carrier has its own radio bands, and phones are often designed to work for just one carrier. Because of this, most Americans buy their handsets from their carrier. I know that in Europe and India, handset makers run their own ads for their handsets. In the US you seldom see this. If a handset is advertised it's often done by the carrier, and you're buying [handset] from [carrier]. Needless to say, you'll often see models that are carrier exclusive. Now, some manufacturer-unlocked North America handsets are available, but they'll usually only work on the AT&T and T-Mobile networks, and most people just don't buy those because the contract subsidies are just too attractive to pass up. Long story short, the carriers control the smartphone experience in the US. By the way, this is why Americans almost exclusively expect to get flagship phones and why there's so much complaining out of the US about the lack of a WP flagship. Flagships are affordable for almost everyone here because of the subsidies. Despite the fact that the Windows Phone experience is very acceptable on midrange hardware, US buyers are adjusted to having flagships and they demand them. Midrange handsets are generally used by prepaid buyers, and prepaid has a stigma in the US because they are primarily the domain of the less-well-off.
  • Finally, several of my doubts cleared at once! Now I understand flagship demand and carrier devices. The scenario is much different here.
    Thank you
  • The exception here, as always, seems to be the iPhone, where Apple handles most of their own marketing and advertising, and post sales customer support experience in their own stores.
  • The history behind the iPhone is that Apple's marketing prowess generated a great deal of consumer desire before it was ever released. Apple shopped the first iPhone to every carrier with a 'rediculous' set requirements. Most turned them away...until AT&T took a shot, along with the Apple deal. The success on AT&T and the exclusivity, created even more demand, and eventually all the carriers acquiesced to Apple' demands, to not be the only one without the iPhone. No other OEM has that sort of clout with carriers. Android's legendary fragmentation is a result of the same carrier avoidance of upgrades. Another aspect of phones in the US, is that the phone company 'sells' you the phone, and generally that is where you go for support. You don't go to Nokia or Samsung if you have trouble with the device you bought from AT&T, you go to AT&T. That is not the case with Apple, BTW, Apple supports their own devices. That leaves the carriers less concerned about support issues, when Apple does updates than when Google does updates that dork up handsets. Same for MS/Nokia. The general expectation is you get support from your carrier. You'll notice that the majority of phones sold therough MSs online store are associate with some carrier, whether locked or not. MS is in this case largely a reseller for the carriers. This is changing but there are decades of traditions to overcome.
  • If you don't understand then go to business school and quit showing your ineptitude online...
  • What a dick
  • lmao.... yeaaaap you find them everywhere
  • I tell you why. CrApple. CrApple OWNS these carriers in the U.S. by giving them $$$$$$$$$$$$$ to make them #1. Just think for 1 sec here: 1. their iJUNK always sits in the front of the store 2. every employee has iJUNK in their hand 3. they always push iJUNK over any other phn, even though other brands are 10000x are better and 4 years ahead of iJUNK 6 or even 6+ 4. updates come to iJUNK in no time and right away when its released, faster than any other OS out there, specially windows, even Android does not get same royal benefit like CrApple iJUNK does.  well you get the pint. Pure EVIL CrApple at work. They monopolizing the market, and want people to get frustrated and leave their phns and go with iJUNK crap. POLITICS of CrApple.  I personally don't give a crap, if i don't get any update, and how hard CrApple is trying to get people to switch to their garbage phns. i will NEVER EVER will get an overrated iJUNK. CrApple can kiss my ass. Windows for EVER.  
  • Google too pays to operators also not only Apple
  • I don't think you really understand why the iPhone gets updates. Allow me to explain what happened. Steve Jobs went up to Verizon and said "Here's my phone, you can have it but I control the updates" and then got laughed out of the room. He went to another carrier and another until he finally landed at Cingular. They wheeled and dealed and eventually Cingular allowed them to do what they wanted to do. And after a little time, it took off like hotcakes. Now they don't have to pay, because the iPhone has proven it can sell.     As for carriers pushing it? Verizon pushes Android more than anything else. The AT&T I went to asked me what -I- wanted. Sprint just gives you a good deal on the iPhone. And let's be honest as to why ... it's less work for them. They don't have to work on bloatware that they add to Android phones, they don't have to worry about support as much either as Apple is there to help with software and hardware issues.  As for being four years behind ... let's not kid ourselves. The 6+ isn't using 4 years old tech.
  • So basically we can say the the Carrirs "suck"!!
  • This is nutes. what are they waiting for?
  • Crazey ain't it!
  • Its insane to think some people still don't have folders on their start screen. Thank goodness I have the dev preview.
  • Microsoft should really find a way to software updates faster cause its really sickening
  • "Microsoft should really find a way to software updates faster "
    You say this like they enjoy not pushing updates. I think programs like Preview for Developers and Windows Insider ARE those ways. What else do you propose that they are not trying? With 3% market share in the US, what leverage to do they even have against the carriers? Last I checked, it's none.
  • i got an update on my unlock Lumia 830 on thursday, that gave me the lumia camera with rich capture.
  • This is mentioned in the article. Not sure how it helps those on AT&T though.
  • Well they sure have more then rim has
  • The big question is: Why in one of the most powerful countries on earth, people can't afford buying even a $150 phone without contract? This whole US thing, when it comes to smartphones, drives me crazy.
  • Sounds like you don't understand it.
  • Please explain why in other countries, supposedly less wealthy, it is not a problem to buy phones without contract. I went over 50 times to the US, I never understood this passion for undeserving carriers :)
  • Has nothing to do with "wealth" or "passion". It is just a habit, culture and what people have done in the past. People here buy their phones through a carrier. Always have. It is slowly changing, but most people walk into their carrier store, sign a contract for 2 years and walk out with a six-hundred dollar phone for $50. To get people out of the mentality that they should stop "buying" a $50 phone and instead pony up $600 upfront is not exactly something common in marketing.
  • I get this. It's just that I have seen a brutal change of habits over the last three years in Europe... I just don't get why my US friends are so late to the party. Especially for budget phones...
  • Again, try convincing someone to buy a flagship phone for $600-$700 when they have been paying so little for so long. It's not an easy task. Europe is Europe. The US is the US. Posted from the Nexus 6, Nexus 5, or the Surface Pro 3
  • 'Paying so little'... Lolwut. In the long run they pay far, far more. And to get back on topic, you especially pay more in terms of getting screwed by carrier restricted updates.
  • You get 'screwed' either way. You can walk into an AT&T store and pay $800 for an iPhone 6+ if you like, but it is still an AT&T phone and will get updates on AT&Ts schedule.  Getting an unlocked, unbranded phone that works across a multitude of carriers, or one, isn't that common. They will generally work for voice and text, and even that may depend on the system being used, GSM or CDMA. Data, on the other hand is dependent on the bands supported by your device and chosen carrier. It is the price we pay for unfetterred competition, instead of government regulated public services. Not saying one is better than the other, just we are where we are due to decades of history. Doesn't change overnight. In this case, competition has forced four competitiors to try to build networks that can support all the customers while getting revenue from a quarter of them. 
  • Politics and silliness.  The same reason we are moving to Chip and Signature credit cards instead of Chip and Pin like we should. Business doesnt think the US consumer can handle change.
  • The hell if I pay 500-600 for a phone. That's insane for something you'll only use a year or two and then it's pretty much worthless. No way would I pay $500 for my 1520. Got it for .99 and don't mind being on contract. With few exceptions you don't get any discounts for paying full price for a phone. That's just the way it is here in the US..
  • The thing is that you DID pay 500-600 for your phone. In fact, you probably paid closer to 800-1000 for it. Perhaps it works differently in the US, but if I buy a phone for $600 I can go on a $20-30/m pay-as-you-go (non-contract) type plan. So after 2 years I'll have paid $1080-1320 total. For that very same phone I would have to pay a minimum of $60-70/m PLUS $10-15/m for the handset itself, so after 24 months I'll have paid $1680-2040. It really doesn't matter what the initial cost of the handset was, as a contract user still loses the value of it by paying for a higher-priced contract. In the example I gave going on a contract I would be $360-960 worse off. Those are all Australian dollars, and reflect current contract/non-contract pricing.
  • How did I? My monthly cost did not go up paying 99¢ for the phone. And I wouldn't get a $600/24 months=$25 month discount for paying full price either. The "subsidy" is in there no matter what. ATT does has some discounts but you have to ADD shared data plan to get a "discount". Strange and confusing. Go to the ATT site and tell me what I'm missing..
    What is "plus $10-15 month for the handset"?
  • You paid for it in the higher cost of the contract versus a much cheaper non-contract price... at least that's how it works in places like the UK and Australia. In Australia the cost of the handset is separated from the base contract price, so it will say something like $60/m contract + $15/m MRO (Mobile Repayment Option). So if you bring your own phone you can still go on the $60 contract to save the $15/m. They will sell it like "You can get a $700 mobile for $360 by paying $15/m for 2 years" but as you're locked in to a higher contract price they make their money back that way. I prefer non-contract because 1) I have a choice of any phone, from anywhere in the world 2) it costs significantly less over the same time periods 3) I never, ever, get charged for excess calls or data as the phone simply stops making calls when it runs out of credit
  • I think you understand what the power of unlimited freedom is like.
  • $10-$15 for the handset is for the handset/number you add to those sharing the pool. If you have a subsidized plan, that goes up to $40 per handset/line. AT&T has three options if you need any more than 1 line. You can do subsidized, getting a cheap upfront price for the handset, then pay extra ($40) for each line on the shared plan. You can get the handset at full price, but pay it over time, billed to your account, and pay a discounted per line fee ($15), or you can walk in with your own device, and just pay the $15 per line.  The pool price, $X for X GBits, is the same for each option. The middle seems the best as you can get a decent device without a significant outlay, but take advantage of the lower price per month. You are technically locked in for the payoff period, though you can pay the device off at any time, and have no further commtment. There is no two year contract, but you are time paying for the device, during which you are required to maintain service. You are paying of a time payment though wihich sounds better than an Early Termination Penalty.  The $10/mo comes in for data only plans like an LTE iPad or Lumia 2520.
  • You hit it on the head exactly. Last week I went into a T-Mobile store to query about an online contract I'd just signed. While there sales person told me about a special on the iPad 3 Mini with 4G. The deal was getting the iPad , normally $529 usd, for the wifi price of $399. Sounds like a great deal right? Well, the deal means a credit is added to your bill each month, which actually does make the devicve $399. The catch is you can't at any time outright pay the device in full for the special price, yep you have to go an entire 24 months or pay the full $529 price. When you calculate the monthly data charge, even at the lowest cost of $30 usd monthly, in the long run you pay way more than expected.  Now I'm a little lazy and also didn't really wan to pay for an iPad outright, so you should know I got the iPad, but canceled my onlne iPhone order. I actually paid a lump sum on the device and will pay it off completly in a month, then possibly shop for data deals and unlock for international use.  P.S. I have a Nexus 5(paid) and 2 Lumias (Paid), I love technology
  • That is where you are wrong.  This was the exact deal, and it seems like you did not read the terms or undestand them correctly. The deal was that you put an ipad on EIP (equipment installation plan).  They would give you a credit for 5.50 on your bill every month.  So what this means is that you are paying 529, still, that amount will show on your Equipment plan.  Then T-Mobile gave you 5.50 credit every month, for 24 months.  If you paid it off early.  THEY STILL GIVE YOU THE CREDIT every month. Wording from internal documents at T-Mobile "If you pay off EIP earlier, we will continue giving you the monthly credit as long as you have a data plan with us."  So yes you are still getting your 132$ off, just over time not all at once. Contract? Sure.  But who would give you 130 bucks off just to take it to another company?  Does that make any sense?  No.  And in the end whether you take the deal or not, you wouldnt have the credit.  So unless you are hoping carriers every few months, it makes little sense to fight back a 2yr credit.
  • Of course I didn't read everything lol lol. Thanks for the clarity 
  • I ask people that as well and it seems the same old I want the latest and bestest phone now snydrome is what gets most people. I rather have a cheap phone that works fine than pay a fortune for just the brand name or a select set of exclusive features. For me cheap phone that works well and cheap service with no contract or phone financing.
  • Why buy a $150 phone off contract and pay the same monthly fee when you can get an $800 phone for $150 on contract and pay the same monthly fee?
  • Yup, exactly the issue.
  • Because you pay up the ass on your monthly bills. You get a much better deals on non-contract plans.
  • It depends on what people need cause nom contract plans are great if u don't use data, and if u do its a shit ton of momey
  • I'm not on contract so I pay for $5/month add-on that gives me 500 MB of data. $5 is hardly a "shit tonne of money". WiFi is almost everywhere, so I only use data when I'm driving or travelling. I always have more data than I can use, so it just builds up each month... right now I have 1.8 GB sitting in my account to use.
  • That's no longer true. Buy your phone outright and your monthly charges will be cheaper than if you bought a subsidized phone. Usually around $15-$25 cheaper.
  • True, but you still have to pony up the cash to buy it outright. To some people, the monthly savings are not enough to justify paying so much upfront. Most people I know are more comfortable paying it off in small payments every month instead. They also don't really care about being in contracts either, so they really don't have much insentive to buy outright.
  • Suppose people flat out don't want to shell out 400-500 for a phone? They don't want spend cash or don't have that much cash or they don't want to put it on their credit card?
  • Then they pay more in the long-run. Just like on a credit card if you actually let it accrue interest (and you'd be a fool if you do).
  • Yeah, but that isn't *that* much cheaper, that'll convince somebody to pony up $700, full cost, for a flagship smartphone.
  • +1520
  • It's cheaper to buy none contract phone. After two years contracts you'll end up paying more than none contract plan. None contract plan is cheaper. I was paying $100 monthly on 2 years contracts for $450 phone that I paid only $99. Now I only pay $60 for similar non-contract monthly plan.
    $100*24=$2400+$99=$2499 for 2 years contracts
    $60*24=$1440+$500=$1940 for 2 years none contracts
  • Exactly. Non-contract is almost always much cheaper, for the exact same phone
  • But if you buy the 150$ phone off contract you should be able to switch to a contract with a really small monthly fee.
    To get that kind of discount for a Galaxy S6 for example, you need a 45€ contract for two years and you end up paying much more to the carrier. With a cheap phone I can have the 5€ or 6€ contract, enough for my needs
  • Uh, because I would pay $20-30 / month off-contract (I currently pay $20/m), but it would cost more like $80/m on-contract for the exact same phone.
  • What do you get for 20 month?
  • Hmm roughly speaking it's $15 call credit, 75 call minutes to other users on the same network (i.e. my wife), 25 call minutes to anyone in Australia, 50 SMS, 500 MB data. Once you use up your SMS/Call/Data allowances it starts eating into the main call credit. But it all builds up though... for example I currently have almost 4000 call minutes (66 hours!) to other users in my network, $50 in call credit, 1.8 GB data etc. I can't even remember the last time I ran out of credit in the last 8 years. I really don't see why anyone would need to spend much more than say $30/m. My dad actually pays $60 per year!
  • dang, non usa plans are so weird.  I use 500minutes a month, 4000 sms/mms, and about 10GB of data on cellular and about 20GB on wifi.  I can only imagine my bill outside the states, i currently pay 100 for unlimited everything for two phones.  Each phone after is 40.
  • Hi dude!
    You're right... I couldn't imagine what my bill would look like in the US! :-P If I take into account your usage, you would pay between 16 and 20€ each month (it is 17 to 22 USD) with a Free Mobile contract in France, per user, without any engagement period, for the following: - Unlimited calls (and it is far from being limited to France... you can even call cellphones in the US without extra charge :)) - Unlimited sms/mms (included sms sent from abroad, in a selection of countries) - Unlimited wifi from Free Mobile hotspots - Unlimited data: 20 Go of 4G data, speed reduced if you exceed 20 Go - 3Go of data to be used abroad Sure, this doesn't include the phone itself... but believe me in the end what you pay would be seen as overpriced in France. In Sweden, where I live since a couple of years, contracts aren't that good... and are actually closer to your offer. But overall, I think US prices for mobile phone are very high.
  • I dont have contracts either.  What carrier is that in France.
  • I was quoting a pre-paid/non-contract plan. If you want to see the comparable suckers *cough* I mean, contract plans then have a look at www.vodafone.com.au/personal/plans or even www.telstra.com.au/mobile-phones/plans-and-rates How on earth do you use 10GB of data?? Even with my maps running 24x7 I couldn't use that much... I download games/apps at home/work over wifi as I'm never far from either, but that leaves little else to consume over mobile networks.
  • Thank you very much!
  • too many brainwashed iSHEEP. that's why. just look at those iSHEEP all round you, and you will see what I'm talking about. Even you show them specs by specs and explain to them till teeth falls out, they will NEVER get it. is like they are possessed by CrApple's demonic logo. They will spend every dime, to get an iJUNK that is overrated, Hyped-Up, 4 years behind other brands,...............Just to say"""look i got one too, don't know how to use it or what its does, but i got one""". flip phn is too much phn for an iSHEEP, forget about a smart phn. when most of them have IQ of -10. 
  • Actually it's because Apple gets mid-spec hardware, build their phone and makes their software work beautifully with it. Then they market their phones to the mainstream audience. Windows phone also works with limited hardware, but it lacks apps and therefore userbase. Android is simply a poor, un-user friendly OS. It also does not work well with its hardware options, unless the phone manufacturer takes the time to clean and optimize the software. Not enough manufacturers do this to compare to Apple, so the mainstream still believe that iPhone is the best option.
  • Waoo Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Something like iTunes.Were we can plug in and update.Miss the old Zune day's when this was possible.
  • Why? XBox Music on my various devices is always in sync without me having to have my media player and PC in close proximity and tie them together with a wire.  Even iTunes is way more cloud based these days, though they charge you $25/yr to do it.
  • @Daniel Rubino honestly speaking I don't purpose anything I've met a lot of ppl who've switched to Android because of how windows phone is behind w with respect to updates on d whole so am just saying it would be nice to find a way to rollout updates faster because windows is such a better OS than Android
  • windows phone behind on updates? have you SEEN the mount of version fragmentatrion in the android market? In general a flagship android device might get one update, afterwards its done, if its anything less? Your sruck on the stock version number.
  • Which Android flagship is this?
    Citation needed. Posted via the WC App for Galaxy S6
  • I have both and I still didn't get it.
  • Further the morons...I know it is hard.
  • It's not Microsoft, it's the carriers. And besides, this is still a much faster rollout than what those poor bastards on Adroid are dealing with. Lollipop is still on less than 10% of phones worldwide.
  • so true lol
  • Rogers 1020 still not updated either.
  • Its the carriers' fault, by the way ive heard microsoft is taking all control to roll out updates in the future , then you might complain incase they still dont roll out in time .
  • It won't be the norm for long. There's a reason as to why China gets it quicker.
  • Pray tell chinaman, why is that?...
  • Its been 6 months already? Daymn!
    #%&$ like that is what kept me from getting the HTC One (270 is a frickin bargain!) ... I don't wanna be under the mercy of a carrier when it comes to updates.
  • It has already received the gdr2 update which the Lumias may never receive.
  • Yea but what happens down the road? My unlocked 8X got GDR1 (with a new firmware) in February... T-mobile said it won't do it. Verizon & AT&T still quiet about it
  • Who cares! Wp8.1 be dead by the end of this year anyway and wp10 will be the new savior for these wc fanboys.
  • We still don't know when will launch w10 for phones. Its still in very early stages. Maybe fully working by mid 2016.
  • For now they are focusing on the PC version to launch it in July and the new phones with W10 will have to be available world wide by black Friday to boost sales
  • There's no time for MS to play turtle. Can't keep going like that...
  • More Microsoft stores!!!
  • Verizon is shockingly the good guy in this case!
  • IKR?
  • frankly speaking iam using lumia535 since december(switched from android to see something new),windows phone is shitt..no gud app,no google services,no background downloading,,urgh..many more.due to touch issue with this phone its even worse..updated to latest firmware still nothing,and also iam not getting its good resale value..just regret
  • Resale value for a Lumia 535? The phone is worth maybe $60 brand new. If you wanted Google Services, I'm sure Google has an answer for you as to which OS you should be using. It's not Microsoft's fault that Google refuses to make apps for their phones. Google clearly wants you to use Android for the prime Google experience, so I suggest either switching or giving up on Google.
  • Just flag as troll and move on, Daniel.
  • thanks Daniel,don't mind..i admire ur work here at windows central..probably 90% of my friends use Android phone so,sometimes google services becomes necessary..
  • Exactly!! I went to at&t store this week for new sim card, and while waiting looked around....only 1 Windows phone in whole store!! (Lumia 830). So sad! It's a great OS!
  • I ,for the one, am ok with this.Iin my team ,total 20 people, i am the only one with the lumia :D and i actually enjoy it . Completely agree with you on "great OS!" part though.
  • and you get good resale value for android phones ?? and why you want google services? google sucks
  • You idiot. There are no Google services on Windows phone because Google is a chicken shit little bitch who is too scared to make it easy for Adroid users to make the switch. Don't go bashing Microsoft for Google's failings.
  • may be u should think more over your lawn maintenance..
  • Yes, that is Google's way of saying "fuck you Microsoft, you just had to buy Nokia and get into the smartphone business as well".
  • Microsoft was in the smartphone business long before Google.
  • Well it seems like lumia is pretty much now using generic wp rom which means factory reset after every major update
  • well , bashing here  don't do anything.
  • Brother. Your issues are suggesting that you did not research Windows phone in depth before buying. I can understand. If you live in Pakistan, as I do, people usually don't. But you cannot simply blame Windows phone. In return for these limitations, you get performance that is unmatched by Android at this price point. If you want background downloads (torrents likely), google services etc etc, go for Android. As for the touch issues, if you got it new from a shop, or second hand from someone else, you can claim warranty. You can get a money back too. Its your fault that you didn't research WP or the Lumia 535. And still you're fault if you continue to use a defective product. Please, get an Android. It lags? Its boring and old? Well, that's Android. If you want the best of Android, go high end.
  • yes hamza u r right.didn't know anything about windows phone before buying it.if i knew,i wouldn't bought it.may be i will switch to android again #highend..
  • Fine replay
  • F#ck google services use Microsoft there better anyway
  • Except u tube they suck. And for u tube we have great clients which are better than the official.
  • waiting for windows 10mobile.if nothing gets better.im gonna dump this phone in toilet..where it belongs
  • it's better u donate ur phone rather than throwing it in toilet,
  • Go back to Android. You deserve it.
  • Gets better ur using the very bottom of the barrel WP, ever try using a flagship Lumia?
  • In my country they are selling 535 at a throw away price since it has touch issues, poor buyers most of them possibly from other brands will have rough time with 535 and then think all windows phones work the same way. I even tried the 535 demo in that store almost any attempt to scroll was registered as a touch! You just bought a troublesome phone even windows 10 may not help you fully... When I went to buy 1520 I was aware of it's touch problem, I just closed my eyes ....luckily mine did not have the issue. Next time research before you buy a phone
  • Will probably change with windows phone 10, MST will be pushing the updates instead.
  • Technically ms has allways been pushing the updates(minus the setup like wp7 had) last mile according to vzw dev spec sheet
  • Nah. Microsoft wants their phone OS to be more like Android; slow updates and fragmentation are part of the transformation :D
  • How do you expect WindowsPhone to grow then?
  • Legit question: has neutered and delayed updates slowed down Android growth? Another legit question: do average consumers even know there are updates technically available for their phone, or what is the latest version of the OS?
  • No because there hasn't really been game changing features that apps would require a new version of Android for the majority of the apps on gp
  • I'll be honest: most of my close friends do not know what version OS their phone is running, nor do they care. They want it to (a) make calls (b) message (c) run a few apps and games (d) take photos. That's it.
  • About d. That means they will see how android flagships can do 4K from the beginning and have fast snapping speed while the likes of the 930/Icon/1520 won't cause they don't have denim yet. If they don't care about updates it makes those dated WP flagships look even worse for them. And Android gets a lot of updates for many core apps even on older releases
  • When your strategy is one OS to rule them all keeping updates in sync across all devices is critical.
  • Carriers fault i guess?
  • There is no doubt.
  • What ever happened to them blindly pushing updates without proper testing.(something that was common with wp7 in Canada)
  • So what happens from here? Are we still getting it?????
  • Meh, in Poland there is only one operator/model combination without Denim update - Lumia 925 from Polkomtel. All other models in all variants (also 925 from other operators) are updated for few months now. Strange, isn't it?
  • But don't you need denim to do windows 10? If it is then denim on my 920 is very important because I don't want to flash a rom myself.
  • No, you do not need Denim for 10. Anything the 920 needs it will get in the update to 10.
  • Kool thx.
  • My 1020 still has super laggy animations after denim and it drives me crazy! WP 8.1 sucks for me, will probably get the next iPhone for a smooth experience.
  • Try a hard reset.
  • I was having a lot of issues until I did the hard reset. Everything is all good now. Only issue is I'm not not smart and I was in a rush and I forgot to download all my pictures before resetting. Bummer
  • Goodbye
  • I'm having the same problem.   It's laggier than my old SGS3 ever was.
  • Have been a flagship user since day one anyway.... So not affected here. Speaking of flagships, we need one so bad. Everytime I tryout an Android flagship, two weeks later.... I'm back on my Lumia Icon. A little off topic, but Lumia WP's are simply superior.
  • All ATT 830 owners really should look into a class action for buying a device that has been highly misrepresented.... We were told the phone was running full Denim only to be told that it was coming "soon". Its been 6 months...
  • I guess their bigger risk takers then vzw was when they released both 928 & 929 later then planned
  • Difference is that this device was supposed to be the first Denim enabled device.... WE were sold a lie by not only Att but Ms as well...
  • Lol you think that will hold up in court? No. Probably not. Products are released everyday....with empty promises...you just have to suck it up and count your losses. You could try talking to the BBB though. I remember calling them about HTC/ATT back in the WP7 days when the Titan had attena-gate issues....and two months after the Titan launched, they release a revised version of the Titan naming it the Titan 2.
  • On a one on one basis , no... But a class action yes.... False advertisement is just that, you cannot sell someone something and not deliver
  • Damn....tsk tsk..
  • Honestly they should've released corduroy first
  • I updated my phone to wp10 but unfortunately massaging and settings were gone how can i get the settings to reset my phone.. Help anyone?
  • maybe u wanna recover to 8.1 again..for time being
  • There's a hardware reset key sequence.
  • I did it but nothing happened. .
  • Try the Software Recovery Tool. It should put the device back to what is current for your model/carrier combination.
  • There's a massage feature in WP10? Why was this not mentioned in any of the changelogs? But seriously, can you not go into All settings or at least extras and settings?
  • Carriers do have an extreme influence. One of the main factors is the fact that people still buy their phones through them As they don't have to pay the full amount up front they think is cheaper. But in the long run it's actually more expensive. Plus they get caught again during the upgrade cycle. If some of them started buying outright i am sure that the carrier interference will lessen in my humble opinion Carrier influence is almost non-existent in India 'coz we buy phone with the full amount.
  • I guess now that the us carriers pulled away secure element support for wp theres not many exclusive features other then uma(tmo) & volte(which requires a carrier provisioned rom similar to what uma requires & what lte-u will require)
  • It's really good that we don't have this carrier system in India. Buy a phone, put in a SIM and there you go. Sure we miss out on the contracts which are available cheap but at least saved from being locked to a single carrier. And the endless waiting for updates.
  • I would have thought that my 635 from T-Mobile would have gotten the update sooner than later because of its newness. Regardless I'm planning on getting the 640 which has the update when ever that happens... Spring .... July...
  • I believe 0% carriers need to be involved to get an update. Does Apple rely on carriers for updates? Right, we "Need carriers to buy in bulk and do advertising and run commercials". Utter BS. When was the last commercial for a Windows Phone run by a Phone Carrier in the US? Let alone significant advertising in a store? And a sales agent recommending a Windows phone? never. I have an unlocked Blu Win HD LTE on AT&T that received the GDR2 update within last week, and look at that, it still works without any issues, AT&T was not involved. Carriers should be able to push network specific updates if they choose (like firmware), but not be in control of the whole OS update process. Carriers don't care about Windows phones in the US now, taking away updates is going to have a minor impact of the pathetic support they offer now. Microsoft, ditch US carrier OS updates, please.
  • "Does Apple rely on carriers for updates?"
    Technically, yes. But Apple has a pre-approved streamlined process, something that not even Samsung can get.
  • So Apple's is streamlined, obviously US carriers have no inclination to do this for/with MS, and as you point out, the big old Samsung neither. One hears about an iOS update coming and within a week every iOS device has access to download/update no matter what carrier. Why should this type of support be Apple exclusive? If it was within 4 weeks for Win Phone updates to be pushed on US carriers after release I think 90% of Win Phone owners would be satisfied. 6 months and and maybe 10% of US Win phone's have Denim, whether significant or not for a specific model? the Carriers have too much control.
  • Well, Apple gets the special treatment because iPhone is every carriers' highest selling device. The same reason there is no carrier branding and bloatware. Apple's system involves carriers to finish testing updates within a scheduled deadline and when done, the update is released. What Microsoft could do is decouple firmware (radio & hardware) updates from software (system apps and OS features) like Google does with Android, and they are getting there. This is one reason the version of Android doesn't matter as much anymore after jelly bean as system apps and services can be updated separately and seamlessly without needing to update the OS.
  • As it's well known, Apple was able to get this deal out of the carriers, back before the first iPhone was released.  AT&T made the deal first, that Apple would control the software, updates, and carriers couldn't introduce bloatware.  The carrier had no idea the iPhone would become as big as it did----essentially changing modern computing---and felt it had nothing to lose by handing control to Apple. After AT&T everyone followed suit, because everybody wanted to offer the iPhone for sale on their network. The rest is history, and the carriers swore never to make the same deal with anybody again.
  • listen idiots...some idiots saying about google and its services..why the f*** u didnt had an answer for not having background downloading..also when i play games and in between i have some work u try to minimize the game.but this shitty thing starts the app again after sometime.u loose all ur progress.and this is happening in high end phones as well.answer please fukers
  • Try doing the same thing in Android, the game will restart. An app doesn't stay in your RAM for long, and hence it restarts when you restore it.
  • i dont think so dear,light games work fine in android,like candycrush etc,they restore from easily..and in my iphone5s even heavy games like asphalt8 and injustice, resumes flawlessly even after a day.with 1gb of ram.may be u shoud also try
  • Ok, if you say so. What Windows Phone device are you using? From your previous comments, is it a 535?
  • yes,535.but even high end lumia phones don't have proper ram management..as iphone does.
  • IPhones are shit they use two year old tech are overpriced and they break easy if you wanna blindly follow them then fine but when windows and android are both running octacore prossecers and the iPhone still has a dual core funny.
  • as a user,restrictions free experience is always good.
  • Reading your previous comments, I don't think a Lumia 535 is an ideal device to review an OS on. Especially when you compare it to an iPhone. About the resume issues, I have used my cousin's 1520 and didn't notice any. Even if there are a few, I think its excusable since its essentially an old device. Lets wait for the new flagships.
  • Maybe it doesn't like your potty mouth and typing?
  • @hotphil nice words dude..take 5min time and please kill urself.
  • How about this go back to ur android and leave out community, or better yet play games on a PC or go buy a console and play real games, or go buy a handheld and still play better games, OMG candy crush lol Game of the Year
  • oh yeah..@thelastespada..maybe thats the reason.u first need to learn facing problems,,..and please suggest me games u think are good for mobile phone other than asphalt8,injustice,candycrush etc...for ur kind information candycrush will come preinstalled with windows10mobile,i wonder how u will survive that..
  • Mistake in the article: "then promote them in their stores and on TV". That's an incorrect statement.
  • I have seen commercials for Verizon Lumia phones before. Same with AT&T.
  • We all saw them in 2012 Daniel...stop the bs PLEASE ;-)
  • Being a lumia 638 user, i guess MS forgot that they have this model too.. We have CV phones here in India and every other Lumia has been updated to denim.. Contacted Ms support but still they don't have any plans yet..
  • Am also using same model 638 Bro .... When I checked with Microsoft tech support update will release by our telecom operators... But we r in India as CV know...
    Am eagerly waiting for the update....
  • I know that feel :(
  • If carriers wont buy phones to sell in the stores, then let microsoft sell the phones open-line that could be used to all carriers in the US. I dunno how it works there, but kt works in other country. In Dubai, the two carrier has no Or very limited Windows Phone on their store. Lumia Phones are sold to all electronics store albeit with very limited advertising and exposure.
  • Problem is features like tap to pay, volte, & uma require a provisioned rom/fw
  • "If carriers wont buy phones to sell in the stores, then let microsoft sell the phones open-line that could be used to all carriers in the US."
    They already do. Problem is this (1) This is not how people in the US buy phones (2) Even if you sell some, it is miniscule to what a carrier could push in stores and online (3) US carriers each have unique bands, especially Sprint/Verizon, which are still CDMA and only GSM for data Microsoft would literally need to produce multiple variants of hardware to sell for each carrier with the well-known fact that they simply will not sell very many. That is a serious manufacturing challenge.
  • Couple of corrections/additions:
    1) the 920/925/1320 and do get firmware updates with Denim which does improve the battery life
    2) the 630/635 Denim firmware does enable the graphic equalizer on those phones, something which might be equally important for the budget minded
    In a nut shell, Microsoft/Carriers are really dragging their feet this time. For the power users: All the Cricket variants and the AT&T Lumia 520 can be flashed to the Latin America Denim ROMs without messing up the hardware. The only thing one loses is visual voicemail on Cricket Wireless
  • Is guess one big problem is they dont make small fw updates to fix network issues during the rest of the lifecycle for that particular version of os so when it comes time to do a major update their workload is higher
  • Wonder if they're just holding off until 10?
  • I don't think I can control my frustration enough to make a polite comment on this matter, so I'll just sadly keep checking for updates on my 635.
  • They should buy t-mobile and make them a huge pusher of windows phones. They can then bundle their apps on all phones as t-mobile apps. It would be genius.
  • Ooops! just saw your post after mine posted. Oh well echo, echo, echo. :o)
  • And this is why Microsoft is jumping operators!
  • Come on Microsoft buy AT&T. Heck, if you can't afford that or they wont sell buy T-Mobile US they're always looking to be bought by someone.
  • I sure do enjoy fast charging(borrowed n4 charger) but sadly I cant seem to get my hands on a moto turbo charger though.
  • Yes in India Lumia 638 also not yet received..
  • The 638 is the only model left that didn't get denim in india.. :(
  • This is why windows 10 will be so much better, with Microsoft allowing all phones access to updates at the same time
  • I will never own a android phone or apple cuz i fucking hate the design of bouth os.Its childish.I come here to read news not to read your fucking complains...here is wc not ms central,you achive nothing by whining here.I have a l620 ,a 925 and a 640 and they work like charm.The925 still has 0 lags and i bought it like a month after release.
  • That must be upsetting for the consumers and Microsoft. That doesn't help Windows Phone get any credence in the States, where it needs it for it to succeed, I guess it all has to do with kickbacks and carriers being lazy or having their hands tied by 'others'? It's good that Win10Mobile is reported to be under more control of Microsoft in the updating process.
  • I have a solution to this.  1. Through Lumia Software Recovery Tool, Microsoft should make latest firmware / software available to the customers without requiring operator approval of software. Also clean wipe at the end of installing software or keeping the data wihout loss should be there as options. 2.  In Windows 10 Mobile, there should be software repository (software resource) option in which the options are through Microsoft and through carriers. So that, even if the Carriers don't approve the software, we should have the same software that is send to carriers. The key part of this procedure should be, there shouldn't be prerequisites like downloading and signing in Windows Insider app or Preview for Developers app. 
  • Same in India as well
  • Since when? :O
  • L820 brazil with denim :D i have nothing to worry about :P
  • Have a solution: Why doesn't Microsoft take over the cell phone carrier soft/firmware testers and get compensated the same money carries allocated for the testers? Would this speed up the soft/firmware roll outs?
  • "Being blacklisted by any of the US telecoms is just not an option." It definitely is an option. Being blacklisted by customers is even worse. If Microsoft alienates people that supported WP from the start they are losing their support not just for phones but all Microsoft products as well. Microsoft would gain a hell of a lot more by sticking it to the hated carriers even if that means only selling WP devices at Microsoft stores and online, it's not like their US market share or carrier support is that great anyway, so by kissing the carriers behinds they are not getting anything other then pissing off WP supporters. By taking a hard line with carriers in the US Microsoft would win a lot of support from WP fans and great word of mouth is worth a lot more then US carrier support that suck to begin with. Microsoft is in the best position from all phone makers to take a chance and trust in it's fans and supporters to carry the WP brand if Microsoft has the balls to flip off the carriers and push out updates to all Windows Phones as it has done for decades for the PC market.    
  • "Microsoft would gain a hell of a lot more by sticking it to the hated carriers even if that means only selling WP devices at Microsoft stores and online, "
    They already do this. So doesn't ASUS. Neither have gained significant market share. If you skip the carriers, you are definitely limiting your audience. People just do NOT buy phones direct in the US. Budget phones, sure. Not flagships.
  • Correct me if I am wrong, but for the last year+ Microsoft has not really been known for sellng any flagships, while budget phones like the 520, 635 and soon 640 are and will be doing pretty well in the US. Taking this together with the already weak market share WP has in the US, its in my opinion the perfect time for Microsoft to try something no one has dared to do since Apple and ditch the carriers in favor of consumers. For WP to stand out, Microsoft needs to do something drastic, and having constant steady phone updates like billions of people enjoy on PC's already is a huge pull for anyone that is frustrated with the state of Android updates and fed up with carriers blocking updates. Microsoft would be the only budget option if they did that, since Apple's iPhone's are the only other devices that enjoy fast on time update rollout, and they are far from budget.  
  • Correct my if I'm wrong here Daniel. For AT&T and T-Mobile (GSM), MS could build phones that you could stick a SIM in and work. For Sprint and Verizon though, I believe those companies must provision your device on their network, and they don't have to do this. They can say it is not supported, and you don't get on.  If I'm right here, then Sprint isn't a big deal, but pissing off Verizon and potentially losing access to their customer base could be significant.
  • That wouldn't work. Nokia tried that in the US several years ago. It didn't have any effect on market share of Symbian devices in the US. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • I think Microsoft is in a bit of a better position and has more market presence and power in the US then Nokia ever did. Still in reality even if experts told Microsoft it was a good idea to ditch the carriers I still don't think they have what it takes to do it.  
  • Htc 8x at&t neither wp 8.1... Still on wp8
  • Developer Preview dude. (not Insider, that's Win 10) The HTC wouldn't benefit from the Denim firmware as that is a Lumia thing.  Don't believe HTC did any firmware updates to coincide with the 8.1 software, so you aren't short anything. If you are waiting for something from AT&T, at this point I hope you have infinite patience.
  • IN chile still waiting denim on my 820 the deploy of denim this time with MSFT as company been so slow as lava river,
  • The 830 is a very large black eye for AT&T. I used to note their company as one that provided updates in a relatively timely manner. At this point I can't say that anymore.
  • Agreed. I'm ready to sell my 830 and I've only had it two months. Sick of AT&T's bullshit already!!!!
  • 2 months must be nice lol try buying it day 1 thinking ur gonna get Lumia camera 5 and here we are now with nothing lol
  • It really is just atrocious.  Not Icon level bad yet, but it's getting there.  My brother and sister-in-law both have one.  AT&T should be utterly ashamed.
  • Most of carrier locked phones still dont have denim ....
  • RELEASE IT ALREADY DAMN IT !!
  • Fortunately, there is a way to get Denim on a phone that doesn't have it. You can sign up to be a Windows Insider and download the Windows Insider app from the Store. In the Windows Insider app, choose "Insider Slow" or "Insider Fast" (it doesn't matter in this instance), and the app will configure your phone to get updates from Microsoft. Then go to Settings > Phone Update > Check for Updates. It will download and install Denim, which is a prerequisite for the Windows 10 Preview. Your phone will restart twice during the process. After this, it will migrate your data and reinstall your apps. This next step is important! Once your phone is ready to go, uninstall the Windows Insider app so that Phone Update won't get the Windows 10 Preview.
  • wrong and wrong! 1) Thats not installing denim, its installing windows 8.1.1, denim is the firmware, and you can't get the firmware unless through the official OTA update 2) Uninstalling the insider app wont get you out of insiders, you have to go into the app and take yourself out of it, insider is just an activator, after its activated, weather the app is on your phone or not doesnt matter.  
  • That's Windows 10 pre release and it's not ready for regular consumers. Preview for developers would be far more suitable for carrier locked consumers, since it's mostly finished anyways.
  • In México we depend of that ATT update for Lumia 830. It's very disappointed!!! Really takes to much time to test an update?
  • No, carriers just want to keep selling phones. Carriers are the ****** of the world. To bad some of them have so much power that they can make or break stuff as they see fit.
  • But I dont see the point. Why they hold the updates?
  • Because they just prefer you bought a new phone
  • And that, my friends, is the point. As long as the US public accept being shat on by the carriers in that way, the carriers will carry on.
    There's simply no reason for carriers to be in any way interested in expediting an update to tiny numbers of old models. Not when their business is signing folk up for new contracts and conning them into thinking they're getting, say, a 1520 for 99c. As long as Americans are dumb enough to fall for that, the practice won't change.
  • I knew something wasn't quite right with Denim. My 635 on TMO has been saying it's been on Cyan ever since I got it back in August. At one point when I put the Developer Preview software on it, it said Denim, but nothing was different in the OS. Now I know why that was. Because that was just Cyan claiming to be Denim to try and fool me. Sneaky Cyan...    
  • Well I heard from windows central that Microsoft is handling all updates for windows 10 and not carriers, similar to apple. This will no longer be a problem in the future
  • Not 100% true. Go back and read about that again. Carriers will still have testing input and MS will still have to kiss their ass. So basically it won't improve things for the consumers.
  • We hear a lot of things about Windows 10. Like we did for 7. And 8.
    The "10'll fix it" hype is getting a little out of control.
    It'll be like the emperor's new clothes.
  • Needless to say we all have the same problem in Latin America... Even though it's true that Lumia 920 doesn't get a lot of new features with Denim, we have to be constantly arguing with carriers so they release the updates... Here in Chile, for example, I had to Spam "Claro" for months (twitter, Facebook, etc) until they released Cyan, now I see the availability in Latin America and guess what? Still no Denim for 920...
  • I spammed to Claro to get black by months I think will start to spam their twitter and facebook because even the model the Lumia 820 don't appear in the official list of MSFT as if they never has sold or imported this phone to here in fact have sent to their twitter account the question when they will release Lumia denim to the 820
  • Murika are you there? Supply and demand, market economy at its best.....
  • The power U.S. carriers have is alarming.
  • exactly , and especially when they get exclusive rights for certain models .
  • I have 1020 from ATT. I got an update, but it still says Cyan. Edit: Nevermind. I discovered thanks to another comment that I needed to sign out of preview for developers and restart my phone.
  • I got the Denim update on my Sprint 635 on Tuesday - when my phone arrived. Perhaps the reason my MMS doesn't work. Lol
  • While it's not surprising, it should be surprising.
    And Partner my ass. The carriers sure don't act that way. Like Verizon making the lame excuse that because their apps broke, that Nokia needed to reprogram Denim. That's bullshit. Software is supposed to adapt to the OS; not the other way around. Only the carriers can pull that shit off and it's because they hold all the cards. They wouldn't do that to the iPhone. I'm definitely not gonna do like other people and get my hopes up because 10$ says nothing changes with Windows 10.
  • Somebody remember the big scandal in TV because Apple IOS update left many phones without reception of signals of GSM,WCMA and Apple fixed that in one day? there operators aren't capable to tell to Apple, from now to the future I will approve the update and will release it when I want not when Apple wants, because they know the iPhone users can make lot of loud noise by their phones but in change the operators see to us as an small group of people which don't are important to them just as long as we pay their bill of phone every month
  • Thanks Windowscentral for finally doing an article about this issue, but why the delay on AT&T? Does anyone actually know why they are delaying Denim for the 830? Are they skipping it, adding GDR2, or just dicking around???
  • But the only responsible of this delays it's the same Microsoft, can't delegates support, if the carriers don't release an update, should Microsoft have an way to bypass the same carriers and directly send updates, Microsoft it's so naive in think that they has the operators pleased if they only wants them out of business as Google wants and Google pays good money to operators for avoid deploy apps, and stop of sell their Nokia,Microsoft devices
  • "Often, many people say Microsoft should just "bypass the carriers", but this is just not possible. Carriers buy the phones en masse from Microsoft and then promote them in their stores and on TV." Except they barely do this now. For all the new iPhone, Galaxy, and LG commercials and print advertisements, I can scarcely remember the last Windows Phone promotion I saw. There was a time where the T-Mobile website (despite offering several Windows Phones) eliminated their Windows Phone category entirely! Upon clicking "OS," there were two options: iOS and Android, where once there were three. Of course the biggest cliche we are all too familiar with is the in-store experience itself. Half the time the phones are not out on display and/or the staff doesn't even know that they sell the phone you have come to purchase. Even when there is a display and they know the phone is for sale, the typical M.O. is to steer the customer to a popular (expensive) iPhone or Galaxy. Often using very biased sales pitches. I just don't see this changing no matter what Microsoft does. It's a chicken-and-egg problem: If Microsoft is a distant 3rd place, they won't get the same support as the popular platforms. But if they don't get support, no one will buy them, so how will they ever make sales gains? Taking control of updates is a fantastic start, but I'd like to see the carriers taken out of the equation as much as possible. Here's how: Also sell all phones in Microsoft stores and have them work on all carriers the way Apple does (especially midrange and flagship models). I'd also like to see better self-promotion. Microsoft cannot depend on the carriers to sell their product. A strong line of national ads like the Surface 3 and Pro commercials to accompany the rollout of new phones is critical to raising awareness of the brand.
  • The problem I see with that is how popular are Microsoft Stores? I don't know anyone who bought a PC from a Microsoft Store. People in the US typically don't buy PCs from Microsoft Stores. They'll buy PCs online from OEMs, online from Amazon, or from big box stores like Best Buy. The Microsoft Store here has never been very busy. The Apple Store in the same mall is always busy. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Laura, could not agree with you more..Wish they has a Microsoft store near me..(closest is a 8-9 hr drive)
    The Apple store here (In a new nice mall) is always packed!
  • Microsoft stores are like ghost towns. Most consumers that want a Windows PC, will go to Best Buy, Costco, Staples or Amazon.  Just like most folks looking for a new smartphone, walk into carrier stores. The only exception seems to be the iPhone, where nobody has trouble going directly to the Apple store.  It is what it is.
     
  • In Chile nobody do any ads of Windows phone, even Microsoft don't do any ads of their products, also if they ensured me updates they should accomplish their promise if not would set a law suit to MSFT subsidiary for false publicity in their website, also blackberry is in almost bankruptcy by be so Canada centered, the same will happen to Windows, phone because still too much united states centered, in Chile isn't any Nokia, Microsoft care office or an Microsoft store where get an new phone directly from them instead of that have to get lucky in seek an flagship Windows phone because still the southern hemisphere to Microsoft being insignificant in terms of market, the carriers also they could not update the current old series 20 as happened in Uruguay with the Lumia 820 which got stuck in Lumia amber because simply the operator stopped of release any update, to operators would be a good strategy because would make you want purchase a newer phone but as many aren't importing flagships on WP platform will force you get an Samsung galaxy 6 or 7 in other words programmed obsolescence
  • The Sprint and Boost L635s have denim I checked yesterday
  • U.S. carriers are not already baking at taking Windows phones? I'm confused... Since I haven't seen one in an AT&T store in months!
  • We never got the Denim update on Lumia 925 on Vodafone here in UK. My Nexus 4 gets all the Android updates in last 3years.
    Microsoft cannot control Carriers from blocking Windows Phone updates. Simply don't believe those claims.
  • Hamburger menus, pulled apps, cancelled flagships, broken promises and fragmentation. The fun never stops.
  • This is why I love carrier-free mobile on my Dell Venue 8 tablet. No lines, no waiting for updates.
  • What about the 1020 from at&t unlocked for T-Mobile does that get the update.....???
  • It'll get the update whenever AT&T releases it. Unlocked and unbranded are not the same thing. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Count Philippines in.
  • My UK 1320 didn't get denim yet either. I doubt that it will ever get it.
  • thanks for posting this onto the main page. Not that it matters, at least it's exposed....
  • ahhh I love my Nokia Lumia 1520 hahaha
  • AT&T seems to be holding up the updates for these devices because they want people to upgrade. I own one of the devices on AT&T that has not been updated and I am starting to get irritated that they are holding up the Denim update for my device. Hurry up AT&T, 6 months is way to long to test updates.
  • Just received this monday may18 on my wife's lumia 625, carrier is movistar mexico. It's a shame
  • ATT store employees have no clue about Windows phones . I get my phones through the Microsoft store. I still let them reprogram my sim cards for free though.
  • I have the 830 through ATT, and it definitely has the Denim update since I received the phone three months ago. I live in Cleveland perhaps its only in certain regions.
  • It has denim but not the full denim that unlocks Lumia camera 5
  • Been with Windows phone two years...i dont have the patience to stay with them any longer and hope they get to other os standards.... so adios... see u in 5years... I hope then it will be a viable option Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • I am so torn... I am on Verizon and up for an upgrade... I was going to go with the Icon from my 928... But it got discontinued.. So I want to go to T-Mobile for the 640XL as an upgrade and unlimited data, but still no word if they carry it... But then think a flagship Windows 10 device wont launch on T-Mobile.. So now I'm back to being stuck on Verizon....
  • I own a T-Mobile 521. Let's see if I can divine the reason for this delay, hmmm... "U.S. CARRIERS DON'T GIVE A S#*% ABOUT WINDOWS PHONES!"
  • Man, would I be completely surprised to have my beloved AT&T Lumia 920 be (finally) updated to Firmware Denim, and then they throw in 8.1.2 GDR2 as an added bonus! Well I guess I can always be hopeful....however I doubt it...lol!
    I have explored/troubleshooted a ton of threads/forums/articles and have yet found an AT&T Lumia 920 that even has GDR2...The way would to possibly flash Rogers Denim ROM...which I will not presently attempt..too many risks involved...IMHO!
  • I've got an 830 (RM-985, flashed to the NA CV version) that just received Denim yesterday...absolutely unacceptable. 
  • And somehow Apple gets away with controlling iOS updates (I never see any stories about carriers holding up iOS updates).
  • Apple IOS updates are directly from Apple and in the same day to all their devices don't depends of operators
  • My 1520 was preloaded with it right before they stop selling it.
  • Samsung ativ s in Greece neither
  • Ya me mine too.. Am using Lumia 730 in India... Still no update...
  • My Lumia 535 haven't receive update 2 even though it had came out 3months ago
  • what is the point of denim? for 1020?
  • It fixed my lockup issues that were introduced with Cyan.
  • Let us update OS AND firmware on Dev Preview and be done with it.
  • I seriously hate the Telecommunications industry.
  • MANY USERS ARE READY TO JUMP SHIP, CUZ MICROSOFT DONT CARE
  • Does not shock me one bit AT&T does not car anything about their customers, all they care abouut is making sure your bill is paid.
  • Everybody's complaining about Denim update, but here i am still in portico update. WHAT HAPPEN HTC WP8s. Some answers please! *cries under the table
  • They arent missing anything. Just saying
  • Ehm? Really? I sure do love the Denim update for my L930.
  • Carriers handing out the updates in the land of the free? Lol.
  • These carriers "promote" Windows Phones in their sites and on TV? Right.....
  • Still Waiting Denim update for Lumia 920 At&T
  • I will wait for another 1 month, if at&T /Microsoft will not provide an Denim update/ Wp 10 for lumia 920, then i will switch to Android phone.
  • "Of course, the biggest offender here is AT&T and their Lumia 830.". Was in an AT&T store the other day. Nice folks and generally very helpful, BUT... They had one Windows Phone on display, an 830. The back had been pulled off so many times it was warped. Warped to the extent it apparently wouldn't stay on by itself anymore, so it was scotch taped on. It was plugged in but all the screen would show is the red battery, 'please charge me' screen.  This is just one store, but if they gave a rodents rear end, from a corporate point of view, they surely could have damaged that out and got a new display one from the company. Microsoft needs some better friends.
  •     While I can agree with some of what's written in those last two paragraphs, I think that it's been proven over the last few years that the carriers don't give a damn about Windows Phone and have done everything in their power to sabotage the platform from delaying updates to not having any publicity for the devices.