Microsoft finally revealed (sort of) how many Lumia phones it sold in Q2 2016

A filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission has finally offered a way to figure out how many Lumia smartphones Microsoft sold in its last fiscal quarter, from April to June 2016.

For the past couple of years, Microsoft mentioned just how many Lumia devices it had sold during its regular quarterly financial results. However, it did not offer any specifics on that part of its business when it reported its fourth quarter 2016 fiscal year results last week.

Today's filing with the SEC did give a clue to that number, however:

Phone revenue decreased $4.2 billion or 56%, as we sold 13.8 million Microsoft Lumia ("Lumia") phones and 75.5 million other phones in fiscal year 2016, compared with 36.8 million and 126.8 million sold, respectively, in fiscal year 2015

We know from past reports that Microsoft sold 5.8 million Lumia phones in the first quarter of its 2016 fiscal year, followed by 4.5 million in the second quarter and just 2.3 million in the third quarter. Through simple subtraction, it appears Microsoft sold approximately 1.2 million Lumia phones in its final quarter of its 2016 fiscal year (which is the second quarter of the regular calendar year).

Obviously, that's the lowest quarterly number we have seen yet from that division but it's also not much of a surprise as Microsoft has done little to promote its latest Lumia smartphones with Windows 10 Mobile. That number will likely continue to drop while the company retrenches on the mobile hardware side.

John Callaham
  • I love my Lumia 950 XL and my wife loves hers as well. Solid product. We were hardcore iPhone users for years. The app gap will get smaller as time continues and then these phones will shine. Stay the course.
  • lol
  • LOL
  • I enjoy my 950 as well.. Me, only personally missing a small amount of apps... Just need apps, apps, apps, and that's it... But, they are still very satisfactory for everyday use, so I don't see the point in laughing at someone who likes their device.... Also, pointless to laugh because he has hope. If he likes his phone can you blame him to hope things get bette❓❓❓❓
  • @rodneyej - I'm surprised you went for the 950! I have a 950 too but I thought you'd go for the XL for sure
  • Blame ATT
  • Same here 950 on AT&T love it. 3 all together, my wife,bro,myself.
  • Look I like my windows mobile tooo... but the point is the absurd statement that app gap is closing when its proabbly the farthest yet.. with microsoft own apps being updated are made exclusive to other platform.. 
  • I have to disagree. The app gap is definitely closing and when you consider the top 10 main apps used across all platforms, there are MS apps or 3rd party alternatives for most of them. With the heavy investment in the Universal Windows Platform (UWP) and the acquisition of Xamarin, Microsoft has positioned themselves to squash the app gap argument.Exciting things are coming...
  • App gap in terms of practical and top N ... not the mindless number of worthless apps. Let's be as reasonable as we can be.
  • Love my 950 too. It's nearly the perfect phone for me. I can of course understand why many would not use one due to limited app availability, but other than that it's very solid. As for apps, I personally have everything I need.
  •   I'm there with you guys too...I have a 950 xl, with leather mozo back....I flippin love it!  All these snarky "LOL" and "windows mobile is dead" comments do nothing to phase my enjoyment of the phone/platform.       
  • I have a 950 and think it is pathetic.  I liked my One M8, but think that both in terms of hardware and software the 950 represents a pretty big step backwards.  W10M, in particular, is just plain unpleasant to use. The browser stinks.  The camera stinks*. The battery life is mediocre, at best.  It is slow and laggy.  Core features, like text messaging and corporate WiFi and voice to text, are unreliable.  Bluetooth audio stutters.  The swipe typing has terrible word recognition.  And both the hardware and software are ugly, ugly, ugly -- which is an absolute shame since WP was so darned beautiful.  It's just not a good phone running a lousy OS. The app chasm was always there (but is maybe getting worse), but at least earlier versions of WP were differentiated by their fantastic reliability and one-handed ease of use.  The typing experience on W8.1 was first rate, but MS has messed something up in W10, in that resepct. I really do wonder who these satisfied customers are.  What is it that people like about the 950?   *The actual optics and sensor are first rate, meaning that when the L950 takes a nice picture, it is a really nice picture.  But it often takes a long time to focus, thus causing me to miss my shot, and many core features like panorama are missing (I know it's coming back but it's been months of living without).  Ironically, the much worse sensor on my One M8 took many better shots than my 950 because I'd push the button and the picture would take instantly.  Speed is probably the most important thing in a camera and the 950 just doesn't have it.
  • Im running a 950, on insider fast build, and have no such issues. It's fast, fluid, great battery life, camera wipes the floor with every other phone on the market, including my wifes iPhone 6, my brother in laws LG V10, and my cousins SGS6. We will all be standing taking the same exact photo, and my photo will always be best.
  • That's good news.  Maybe the Anniversary Update will help with the camera issues.  I just took the plunge and updated to the Insider Build last night.  Haven't taken any pictures, yet.  That said, I'm considering a switch to Android (have a new phone arriving today) so it may not matter, for me. The Mrs., who will likely inherit my phone, my appreciate it, though.
  • Which Android phone? There are only a few I would consider switching to should W10 Mobile not progress - I has a Galaxy S3 before switching to Lumia Icon, and bow 950. I would never go iphone, too many restrictions (even though 95% of my friends and family have iphones. I am considering getting a used Nexus that will live in my car for Android Auto. I just like the UI of Windows 10 so much more than Android. I originally switched because I just couldn't handle the lagginess and daily crashing of Android, which doesn't really happen anymore. Now I have a Surface Pro and 950, and they just complement each other so well......except for that damn app gap that is.
  • I ordered the BlackBerry PRIV for $300 from DailySteals.  I think the deal is over now, though, but considering it's selling for $650 on AT&T, I thought that was a good place to start.  It's apparently been updated to Marshmallow so I'll be able to test the latest-and-greatest on Android vs. the latest-and-greatest on W10M. I think my first thing to do will be to download the entire suite of MS apps for Android and see how they compare to the same apps on W10M.  I hate Google, but I'm pretty sure if I opt out of everything I can find and use alternatives for as many built in programs as I can find, I can keep them mostly off of my device.
  • Camera's going to be worse on Priv. I've read the performance isn't great either- stuttery. The SD808 is a dud, more so when it's powering a QHD display.
    That being said, BB's software is excellent and security updates are instant. Plus there's hardware keyboard for those who like it. One thing you'll definitely love on Android is how stable the Windows Central app is. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Camera (which looks pretty good, if not L950 good) and keyboard (yay!) asside, it looks to me like the PRIV and my current L950 are virtually identically specced phones (,BlackBerry-...), so if the SD808 is a dud, it's the same dud I've got now. I plan on doing some side-by-side performance testing since its almost a perfect 1 to 1.  I'll post my thoughts in the forums.
  • Can you post a vid showing the difference between the two. Thanks
  • Nase, the Droid phone of choice will of course be whatever Nokia come up with. If it beats the Surface phone, I'm going to be very torn.
  • So in conclusion, the 950 is probably not the right phone for you.
  • Why are you wasting your time with a 950 then? Why are you assuming everyone has your bugs?  
  • > Why are you wasting your time with a 950 then? New phone (PRIV) arriving today.  We'll see how that goes. > Why are you assuming everyone has your bugs? Because they do!  That's how running the same software on the same hardware works.
  • Lol. Do you even get what you say? Not everyone has the same software build as much as not everyone has the same hardware build. So you're completely wrong on that. 
  • I suppose you could be on an Insider Build but no, the way W10 works is everyone is on the latest all the time. And other than single vs. dual SIM, and minor differences in CPU, it's all the same hardware, too. I have three L950s and one L950XL in the family.  One AT&T-branded and the rest unlocked.  And they all behave exactly the same way.  As they should, since they are the same, and that's how computers work.
  • I am and you shoud too be on the latest cumulative build availlable. Minor differences is still differences. I'm talking about hw revisions. Look at the 535 for example. Some had really serious touch problems, some not. It all went down to who had what hw revision. If there's something my >20 years of developyng software teached me is that no hardware behaves exactly the same way.
  • > If there's something my >20 years of developyng software teached me is that no hardware behaves exactly the same way.   Funny, I too have been developing software for decades and have the exact opposite conclusion.  When something doesn't work right, either the hardware is defective or, 99.999% of the time, it's something I did wrong in the code.  Well-working hardware does not behave differently when running the same software.  That's the way computers are. But, be that as it may, I assure you with absolute confidence that the issues I am describing are endemic to W10M, and they happen on every W10M device, regardless of "minor differences" in hardware -- except those complaints that are explicitly about hardware (such as the aesthetics of the L950 devices, which look like developer devices not meant to be used in the real world). The quality of the browser, the word recognition when swiping, the lagginess, etc., are all just the way W10M works, or, rather, doesn't work.
  • > Well-working hardware does not behave differently when running the same software But that's just the case here. Some firmware's hardware may have a bug or two but not all. That's because some are experiencing some bugs and other aren't. If you're not happy with your experience you should use your products warranty.
    Of course some "issues" are hardware independent. I think the browser now is way better, I haven't a single issue with word recognition, lag on a 808/810? well, I don't see it on my good old S4 running redstone. Speed, the most important thing in a camera, really? Do you need to do a quick shot of a landscape for example? and is it that slow?
  • I have a 950 and 950XL. I use my phone literally all day. Have NEVER experienced the plethora of issues that you have. I will say that shape writing doesn't pick up longer/more intricate words, but total breaths of fresh air. W10 mobile is uglier than WP8... Well, aesthetics will always be subjective, but wow... Can't say that I've heard that being there overall consensus. Maybe switching to Apple or Google's offerings are best for you; you don't seem satisfied or happy with Microsoft's. Sometimes it's better to just leave the platform until it can do something for you. No need in living life with world's worst phone. You know?
  • I remember when 8.1 1st came out apps were crashing battery life sucked and everyone was complaining how bad it was. I have 3 950's my Wife,Bro, myself we love them best phone yet, I came from a 1020 and I loved that phone.
    But the 950 so much better.
    And u gotta give MSFT credit they did something no ones ever done before, one OS for all devices, that's not an easy task.
    And as far as the UWP those Apps keep coming all the time more & more which I didn't think would happen, I was wrong. But I think there are some Apps we'll never see, because the developer hates MSFT.
  • You know. My family has owned (owned + replaced) a total of 4 Lumia 950s. We have two of them still in use.  I have participated in preview programs and withdrawn. I am also not a light user or amateur tech person.  I have to say that I have experienced ALL of the problems one poster "x I'm Tc" described here on ALL of the 950s.  Still, we love Windows 10 Mobile, we just wish we had a better experience.  We've owned 640s, 830s, 920s, 1520s, One M8, Titan, Titan II, Quantum, and Focus. We like the 950. But the most solid experience was the 1520.  We like the 950 for only one reason: it was built to run Windows 10 Mobile.
  • sounds like you might have a faulty L950. Have you tried exchanging it? I don't have the 950 but I have the 950xl and love it.
  • Oh, so you're not in the Insider program. I have the 950 as well and while It's not my absolute favorite phone, it's not as bad as yours seems to be. Panorama is here and in my honest opinion, it's good. My gripe with the keyboard is predictive text. Oftentimes hit or miss. Bluetooth is working better in the build I'm using
  • Look I like my windows mobile tooo... but the point is the absurd statement that app gap is closing when its proabbly the farthest yet.. with microsoft own apps being updated are made exclusive to other platform.. 
  • Jajajaja
  • The denial is real.
  • I know, isn't it horrible how he and his wife enjoy their phones? They shouldn't be allowed to do that, they must be forced to like iPhones and Android phones, and those phones only. How dare they choose something else, the nerve of these people! Let's run them out of society, shun them and mock them for their decisions to dare think differently.
  • Lol. It's too rude, dude.
  • My issue isn't with the early part of his statement its with the later part. Stop projecting your insecurities. Why would I say someone who enjoys a particular product is in denial? If you took a moment to engage your grey matter you'd easily identify that the denial is in regards to his optimism for the platform. Engage brain not ar$e please.
  • I think you are projecting your insecurities. Deciding that someone who like his phone and remains hopeful that more apps become available need to be mocked for that. If someone goes to an Apple web site and talks about the low numbers that Mac sells compared to Windows computers, we see comments such as "who are you to decide how I spend my money?" And they are justifiably right to say that. But who the hell are you to decide that this person, who enjoys his phone, and his wife too, needs to be mocked over his decision? Why does your hatred of WP mean that he and his wife need to be mocked for it? And, of course, that means that I need to be attacked for not "engaging my grey matter" perhaps I did think about it, and WP is better for me than the alternatives. Truth be told, I have thought of switching to iPhone, but it is people like you, and your smug, condescending attitude that make me not do it, because I don't want to be like one of you pathetic people who want to decide for everyone what is the best and look down upon them for deciding what is best for them.
  • Oops, I don't use an iPhone. I use a Microsoft phone. Love the company you keep lowbrow.
  • He had you now calm down.
  • youwwould make a good apple guy htough...oh we think differnet badnwagon...except you dont... thepoint here is al thel ols are aimed at the whole app gap is closingwhen its farthest fro mthe truth...none of it is aimed at loving windows device..evenwthhout the apps i like my wm device...both of them  but doesnt change reality that the apps ecosystem s u kk s!
  • Is your denial on their satisfaction with Lumia so real it makes your eyes bulged?
  • I don't have an issue with their satisfaction. Perhaps if you read the rest of his post your note the misplaced optimism on the platforms future he expresses. I myself use the 950xl as my daily driver. I do have a Note 5 but at the moment its my secondary.
    Windows 10 for mobile though is a failure overall. Cognitive dissonance is what leads people to say otherwise.
  •   This comment is really stupid and let me say why. It assumes a static market in which Android will always win, iPhone will always be second, and Windows on mobile will always continue to shrink and become non-existent. That assumption is easy to dismiss and is based on ignorance, hence, why your comment is stupid. A few years ago, Windows on tablets was a non-starter. Every one stated that MS should give up trying. Then Surface came along. Sure, it took a while, but now Windows tablets and 2-in-1's (tablets with attachable keyboards) are the only ones growing, keeping the tablet market from free falling. Surface is now a multi-billion dollar brand. If it's properly leveraged for mobile, which I think it will, then we may well see a renaisance there as well. What will be the key for MS is how many UWP apps they manage to get in the store. Everytime I turn around more and more show up there, including some long time classics from iOS. So do yourself and us a favor and take your attitdude and keep it to yourself. Those of us who hope MS will turn things around next year, would like the opportunity to wait and see how things go before the Nostradomuses of the world declare its total failure.
  • Sorry buddy, but the difference in your example is that MS had continually pushed to make its software better, update those devices to the latest Windows version (excluding RT) and continues to release better Hardware and big marketing push... They have not done a single this on WP front... They have left it to die and the only promise they have given is that they might return to address it...
  • Microsoft tablet sales are still quite small. They aren't selling tablets either, they are really laptops that can convert. The experience is quite poor when used as a tablet. These devices are replacing laptops and work best when used as a laptop. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Zzzzzzz....and yet the smartphone market share keeps shrinking. Which is what the post is about, as is the OP, as is my response. You can ******* the Surface team in the next room please. My points, perhaps stupid, carry more sense than your irrelevant and off topic rebuttal. Zzzzzz.
  • No, cognitive dissonance is when people like yourself continue to use a platform that you believe sucks and has no future, and then venting that frustration at people who are satisfied with their experience. Seriously, you're looking very unstable when you do that.
  • It isn't frustration its the truth. Why you heff to be mad? When I feel frustrated I switch to my Samsung device. I too appreciate the aesthetics of Windows Phone. However it has no future.
  • One man's "trash" is another's treasure. Window's "failure" is an opinion of yours and it's perfectly fine. However, to emphatically say that for someone to think otherwise is cognitive dissonance is beyond ignorant. You would have to know what each persons' idea of success of the platform is in order to begin to proclaim that. Let people enjoy what they enjoy because they enjoy it. Oddly disillusioned or perfectly informed... Let them sans the persecution.
  • Lol
  • I really enjoy my Lumia 950 XL too when it's not crashing (happens less often now) but I've been saying what you're saying since I got a 920 on release day... then a 930 on release day. I've converted almost my entire family to Windows Phone/Mobile and I'm still waiting for the day when software developers think it's a viable platform. Microsoft killing off their mobile division isn't helping.
  • If you like them, great! No one who is disatisfied should "stay the course" however.
  • Exactly. Reassuring people that it will "get better" is disingenuous and misguided.
  • *disingenous ;)
  • Thanks :)
  • Dude, you're an idiot.. it's been doing exactly that, GETTING BETTER... to think that all of a sudden it will get worse shows the YOU don't engage your brain... so please, for us all here in the forums, SHUT UP!!
  • This article is about how it is getting worse, not better. OEMs are not picking up the slack like Microsoft had hoped. Getting them onboard now is going to be really tough. Do you really think there will be a path forward next year? Microsoft will have to manufacture and market their own devices. They will need something truly revolutionary to gain any momentum, and even then it will be tough. Next year they will likely kill development of Windows Mobile knowing this. They just don't have a path forward. Enterprise isn't the answer. If Windows phones are so great for business, why do they have almost no penetration in to even that market? Why is that suddenly going to change? If they do see some sales in enterprise, the past shows that people will just become frustrated with the devices and sales will tank again. Consumers certainly aren't going to start buying them after experiencing them at work. How many 520 buyers went out and bought another Windows phone? Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • This isn't a forum.
    Sales aren't getting better.
    Did you read the article?
  • I agree.....the course for them is IOS or Android at the moment.....and they may be happier of they just.....left, instead of moping around here feeling dismayed that people actually do like Windows Mobile and "the Course"
  • Frankly the app gap would largely be a non issue if websites were properly optimised for mobile, which more and more are becoming every day
  • But then WM STILL falls behind because of the buggy and weak Edge
  • Lol
  • You don't deserve 2 negative marks...Edge is still buggle for me and often not compatable with some sites. Trust me, on the PC, would rather use it than the battery sucking Chrome. 
  • Really ???? I cannot believe people up vote this, The app gap is a problem because there are no websites. Should my Sonos be running a website? my Wemo smart plugs? Don't think so. The App Gap is real and getting bigger. With people stuck on WP 8 (not everyone knows about or cares to join the insiders program) They are actual seeing apps disappear.
  • That's a good number considering they launched just lumia 950 and xl. Very good number I guess.
  • No, not really.. At least not relatively good.. I mean Apple launch the exact same amount of devices, and sold that much in Minutes.. It took MS 3 quarters to do that... Not downing, just being realistic.
  • Sorry, I got it wrong.
  • Lol.. Ok
  • And 550, and 650. And still selling 640 XL and 640 in many countries. Those 2 alone are probably half the total volume.
  • Yeah, I'm really starting to like my 950 too.
  • there's not much reason to not like it,just getting better and better
  • Depends. I don't like the creaking of my 950's chassis or the display that has developed something that looks like permanent finger print marks in the upper-left. That, and the thing gets pretty toasty under load, and the new keyboard is considerably worse than its predecessor (I did swipe-based texting almost exclusively on my 920, but only do it about 30% of the time now because it is constantly wrong). Still, it is a respectable upgrade, even if it took 3 years to replace the 920 on AT&T. The battery life is solid, the weight is decent (I'd prefer a but more heft), and the display looks good. It's basically a fine phone, but somewhat disappointing after the 920 was actually the best phone in its class at launch. The 950, against the competition, is ho-hum, at best.
  • Yes! Me and the missus are one the same boat. thouroughly enjoy owning it and to be fair (with banking as an exception) the app gap hasn't bothered either of us.
  • LOL
  • For me the app gap is not an issue. I have used windows mobiles for quite a few years now even in the wimo days. For me the best phone I ever had was the HTC Titan/HD2 and last year I decided I wanted a change and got an LG G4 it was a nice phone but I did not take to android and still did not find my self using apps on it to as I fond the web sites better to use. Then MS showed off the 950XL so I sold my G4 and go this phone and for me it beats the titan and HD2 to being the best phone I've had. People make out about the app gap but everyone I have talked to who say they are sick of ios but think android is to complex have moved to the 950 or xl even with me telling them about the lack of apps and not one has come back and complained they all love the phone and what it offers. I just hope more people try and give it a chance as for me Wm is the best so on the market it just needs other 3rd party's to help push it.
  • Lol.
  • Keep telling yourself that.
  • And I love my Lumia 650.... NO MATTER WHAT PEOPLE SAY. And I also have all the apps i need. I don't see any app gap honestly. 26 games and 136 apps... :D And there is no bloody lag.
  • I love my 950XL also. I think windows 10 mobile is so much nicer than android or iOS. Those operating systems are like children's toys in comparison. If only we got a little more respect.
  • Especially from Microsoft!  that would be awesome.  But when you get no Respect from the Company, CEO and lemming team that is developing you....its hard to get respect from others!
  • I bought the iPhone 6 plus loved it, but then i got bored with it and wanted to try windows, bought a used 1520 and never looked back. Now I have the Lumia 950 and I still Windows ( my son cracked my 1520).
  • I so wish I had your optimism... being a Verizon user and seeing a lot of apps not come to Windows Phone, I just can't see how it will get better. I'd be on a 950xl if it had been allowed on Verizon. 
  • I'm still surprised they sold that much though. Low is like 1000 phones. 
  • Mostly those numbers are of the KING 640
  • 1000 phones would be dead... One small enterprise Customer could gobble up that many... That could mean MS had only one Customer...
  • Thats close to the truth at this point....MS having one customer on mobile...
  • What this report reveals is actually low. 1000 phones roughly equates 0% market share. That'll mean the end of Windows phones altogether.
  • I still don't understand Microsoft's approach to mobile. They weren't doing that bad-- they were slowly but surely gaining ground, especially overseas, and then just...stopped trying. It's really hard to sell phones if you're not making any new ones.
  • The problem is you don't understand that Microsoft itself NEVER did that. The growth Windows Phone ever had was because it was the OS running on Nokia phones. The moment Nokia left, sales sunk harder than the Titanic. No one was buying the phones because of Microsoft or Windows Phone.
    And further proof of that is that Microsoft sold more than 3 times the number of Lumias in dumbphones carrying the Nokia brand. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • When Nokia came it just took over sales of existing OEMs. So it did NOTHING for WP. No market share increase, you can look at the statistics.
  • Are you delusional? Or can't you read numbers? Nokia WAS responsible for WP's market share increase. Next thing and you'll deny tge earth revolves around the sun... Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Actually labsii is right. You are the one delusional djcbs.
  • Yes it would be nice if DJCBS would check the facts and stop spamming the site. Nokia partnership is the worst mobile decision Microsoft has ever made. On top of the things I said, Nokia earned most of the money by selling fairly good cheap phones in Europe, and if you want to earn money today you need to sell expensive phones in US and China because other than that there are only loses in the mobile industry. So Nokia's problem wasn't OS but that its target market turned from being profitable to being loss leader. Of course, it is silly how Microsoft today tries to undo its bad decisions like nothing has happened in the meantime. Even if OEMs can forget what they did they don't have the money today and things just can't be undone anymore.
  • DJCBS checked the facts. He just didn't read the "facts" that are fabricated by labsii delusional mind.
  •   I have kindly asked to you to read the facts. It isn't hard to find. But if it is a problem, go to Wikipedia's page about Windows Phone and check the section about market share for year 2011 (before Nokia) and 2012 (after Nokia). After that please post that Wikipedia is delusional, I believe that it will bring a lot of fun that we are missing here so badly.
  • I came to Windows Phone because of Nokia, I stayed with Windows Phone because I liked Windows Phone and Nokia hardware, I'm staying with Microsoft because I like Windows 10 Mobile and the Windows ecosystem. There was a time where I went wherever Nokia went, S40, Symbian, Meego, Windows Phone and more. I'm not following Nokia anymore as they left the OS that can power all device form factors for me and my family. For me and my family, it has never been about apps as all of Nokia's home grown OSes lacked apps compared to iOS and Android at times. Nokia got me into Windows Phone and Windows phone got me into the widest reaching ecosystem there is currently. For me and my family, that's more important than a handful of apps for one to two device types. I was sad, to get off at the bus stop and see Nokia drive away one last time but the Nokia I used to love is dead to me. It's like a girlfriend that is still alive but has changed so much that she isn't the person that you fell in love with. I wish them the best of success in the future but they left me. I don't blame them though, it is all business and as a company, Nokia needed to survive so I'm not mad, just disappointed in how they orchestrated their own phone business demise well before Windows Phone came into the picture. But hey, who am I, I'm just one guy with a family, not even a blimp on fiscal sales charts that would make a difference.
  • None of that makes sense. Microsoft moved the flagship from AT&T to.Verizon, where its peak was a shallow grave. MS never promoted anything on Nokia's level with the 920 line (which was heavily promoted by MS as well). People stopped buying because MS didn't produce elite devices like Nokia did. The 930 was so-so, the 830 was a joke, and the 1520 was niche. The 520, 820, and 1020 never got true successors under MS, so there was nothing to buy, unless you wanted a mix of underpowered and overpriced. That carried ok to the high prices of the 950 and 950 XL, IMO.
  • They didn't make successors to all those phones because they sold so poorly. Obviously it wasn't worth the effort. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • The moment Nokia was BOUGHT by Microsoft (and they didn't just left) was the moment I bought my first Windows Phone :D (Not exactly, even a bit later, last October). And it was just because of Windows... I was tired of lagdroid, and wanted just one OS on all of my devices. Other than that, I'm pretty happy with it, it's doing amazing :D Not everybody here is a hardcore Nokia fan (although I have no problem with them at all, and was longingly looking at the Lumia 900 when it came out, mostly because Windows Phone. But I didn't have enough money, so I stayed with a lagdroid in that time).
  • Balmer did decently laid a solid vision to expand and then NUTELLA haragiri happened!
  • You made me Cortana haragiri. lol
  • I used siri....she's faster,  and more complete than cortana...
  • But you have to give Satya credit though. His retrenching program works wonder and impressive. It wasn't easy. :-)
  • Lol
  • You're joking right?
  • His trench should be 6ft deep,  him inside with said 6ft of removed dirt replaced on top of him.  Singlehandedly destroyed anything good in ms.
  • I don't know anything but microsoft made profit in last 2 years but that was not the case with Ballmer. Share prices was all time low.... But now they are improved and stable.
  • Gavin belson firing syndrome lookup silicon valley, CEO of tech isnt supposed to play the stock scale if he is intrested in makign  visionary stuff!
  • They weren't doing that good, otherwise Nokia wouldn't have left. Selling $30 phones (L520) in small markets isn't a successful business for someone like Nokia. Windows phones never had any traction, any sales they did have was fully from Nokia pushing the phones. Windows phones are dead. Eventually Microsoft will have to kill it completely or totally rebrand. It is just a matter of time. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Nokia did the best they could with the poor, uncompetitive OS Microsoft gave them. Lets not forget, its six years later and we're still battling basic functions like Bluetooth and WiFi. Microsoft is incompetent when it comes to mobile, full stop.
  • don't forget about VPN which is still half broken in wi10mobile.
  • Nokia probably would have had a better go trying to fix Symbian. Then again, their software efforts tended to suck.
  • I don't think Nokia sold the L520 for that cheap anywhere outside the US. Same with the cheap 6XX Lumias. Nokia maybe could have been profitable had they not had their own factories, but yeah, the biggest problem was the lack of "high value customers" since they were mostly happy buying iPhones and Android devices (or perhaps unhappy buying WP).
  • The Lumia 435 could be had for as low as as £4.95 last year (sub-$10), the Lumia 535 could be had for as low as £9.95 in the UK, unlocked.
    The Lumia 635 could also be had for as low as £9.95, and the 640 for as low as £19.95 at one point.
  • Woah, I never saw any Nokia phone for below 69€ in Finland. I understood the same was true for most of Europe and India. Hopefully people from other countries will respond too, and perhaps we will all have a better picture. P.S. at those prices they were practically giving them away
  • They were paygo upgrade deals (no contract) through car phone warehouse (the UK's largest independent retailer) but add another £10 or so and you could have the phone without being a paygo customer already. I got the girlfriend a 650 and it was £130, but the design of it suited her. I was hoping it would drop to sub-£99 but waited 3 months and no sign of it. I got a 950 for £370 from Microsoft direct on launch day, and it started wonderful, but gradually the OS is getting worse for stability. The same is happening to my gf's 650. Microsoft need to either sort W10M out, or simply kill the platform. There's far too many bugs and shortcomings to justify future purchase even for a big MS fan and longterm WP user like myself. The phones aren't selling and OEM's are nowhere to be seen. They need to either sorry the OS out and invest, or give up. The 950 will be the final Windows Mobile I'll own, after 6 years of using it. I'll hold into it for another year, and then probably get an iphone, unfortunately.
  • 535 for such a low price??? :O Here in Hungary, an unlocked 535 costs 32000 Forint (£87, $115 or €102). Even my little brothers used 532 did cost 15000 Forint (£41, $54, or €48). The U.S. is not the whole world, nor is the U.K. ;)
  • can you mail me ten of those here in india these all still cost above 90 USD
  • Rebranding..
    Isn't that part of retrenching?
  • It should be, but it doesn't seem to be. Maybe the big update next year will significantly alter the branding and UI though. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • What the heck is your problem with the UI ALWAYS? Go back to your bunch of icons on a wallpaper... "Really innovative and good design". Not like even Windows 95 looked like that... :D
  • Because the UI is rigid. Even the manufacturer cannot change it all or add their own identity. Why use Windows Phone, with its rigid UI and complete lack of customization along with non-existant app store and ecosystem when an OEM has Android available? Android allows them to fully customize their phone. It becomes theirs, it is no longer Microsoft or Google's. It is their phone with their UI and added features. They now have a reason to support and push the devices. That sense of ownership they do not get with Windows phone is what kills any OEM involvement. What if someone doesn't like the UI? They have no choice with Windows phones. Take it or leave it. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • I still don't get it why you think, that OEMs putting their crappy launcher on their phones is a good thing. What matters, is that customers like the phone. Putting Touchwiz on a Samsung phone, or Sense on an HTC doesn't make it any better, just worse if the launcher isn't optimized at all, what occurs very often. They can add all their "extra features" (that are bloatware almost every time) through apps. Who cares if they feel it's their own or not? Companies are driven by profit, not feelings.
    Other than that, the live tiles offer enough customization for the user, and the user is the only one who matters in this case.
    And why would any OEM use W10M instead of lagdroid? Just ask HP for example. They wanted droid on the Elite x3 first, but they found out, that it lacks many features their customers need, that W10M already had.
    But if all you want to do with your phone is catching virtual Pokémons and posting it on Snapchat, lagdroid is perfect. :D
    And at last but not least, I have a question for you. Where are you, and all the other trolls, when WC reports about new app releases, major updates, new features coming to the OS, or new phones being announced? Why are you only here, when an article is about something negative? I guess you enjoy this... Coming here just to troll... Have you ever seen me trolling on droidcentral or imore? I guess not, because I never read news about things I don't like. So I guess you're strange... :D
  • I explained to you why they should let manufacturers skin and add features to their phones. They also are now involved in the development as well. How many features from manufacturer customizations have made their way to stock Android? You are right about consumers though and you hit the nail right on the head. Obviously, consumers do not like Windows phones. These sales numbers, and all previous sales numbers, make that obvious. The UI is a big part of a phone, after 6 years, it is time for Microsoft to try something else. This isn't working. Next year nothing will change if Microsoft leaves it the way it is. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • And you didn't answer to at least half of my questions... As expected...
  • Oh yes, the HP question. Daniel said they expected Google to work with them on the device as I assume creating software isn't exactly their strong point. This isn't how Android works though. Google isn't going to do the work for them. Also, I am sure Microsoft sweetened the pot through discounts on Windows licenses or something. Either way, that phone will be dead in the water. It is way too expensive and no one is going to want to use a slow and gimped Windows RT desktop. Any IT department that attempts to push that on thier users are taking a huge risk. On Live Tiles themselves, they do not offer much customization. They are a rigid grid of icons with squares around them as well as completely gimped widgets. The flashing Tiles are also frustrating. The information they show is random and cannot be acted on or changed. If they do happen to show you something, you then have to go and find that information, it doesn't bring you directly to it. Chaseable Tiles will help that, but 6 years later and just now Microsoft is starting to inprove them?! They really need to be fully interactive with music controls, swiping, etc. I have been a Microsoft and Windows fan for decades. I build my own desktops and have a Surface Pro 3. It is painful to see Microsoft repeatedly beat a dead horse. After Windows Phone 7 flopped, they should have tried something new. Instead they just change the kernel as if performance was the issue. They did the same thing with Windows 10 Mobile. They changed things behind the scenes as if performance was the issue with Windows Phone 8. Now it looks like they are continueing down this same path, even though it has been completely rejected by enterprise and consumer. I want them to be succesfull, and obviously, Windows 10M isn't going to bring success.
  • Okay Mr. Expert, you're a troll who's good at bullsh*ting :D And you still didn't answer all of my questions :D
  • Sounds like you have no argument, just attacks. It is hard to justify Microsoft's mobile efforts though so I understand the lack of points. I answered all relevant questions though.
  • No, you haven't. You're the one that only attacks everything MS does with the same bullsh*it. But I asked you, why you troll here at all? Why aren't you here, when anything good happens with W10(M)? Why are you only reacting to bad news, but a thousand times? You're a well known troll here, and not without a reason. Maybe, some day you can live up to DJCBS and the other "big names" :D Be happy with your lagdroid, and use it, but don't come here to troll. Stay on droidcentral, and we'll never meet again ;)
    Btw, Windows licenses are free for screens smaller than 7" :D And for your "this is not how android works" argument: Why? It would be much better if it worked so, and google weren't just a bunch of pricks, who don't even care about their parents... The whole do it yourself thing stinks. Why should any OEM be good at making software, if they're a hardware company? HP found most of those features already in place in W10M, and MS helped them develop the few others. Isn't it a much better environment, than what google"offers" with it's "do what you want, we don't even give a single f*ck about you, as long as you don't remove our spyware, and no google play for you if you do so"... With an analogy, why would you want to climb a 5 meters tall tree for a delicious fruit, if you already had one that's easily reachable with your hands? :D This is not because HP is bad at software. It's because google couldn't help them, because they're all lame picks. :D
    But I already wasted too much time on you, so this is more than enough...
  • Sorry, I want Microsoft to be successful. Say all you want Android and Google's strategy, but it works and it works really well. Android outsells Windows 3:1. Microsoft's strategy doesn't work. End of story. Keep cheerleading them into obscurity. Until they learn from their mistakes and make real changes, mobile will never happen for them. If you were a real fan, you would be pushing for change not celebrating failure. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Nadela said he would not give up his iPhone. He told the board if they don't follow his plan to kill windows phone he would quit. Of course they didn't want to fire two CEOs within a year.
  • Source?
  • His butt.
  • LOL
  • Why all the down votes peeps? This is a totally viable scenario!
  • In the end it doesn't matter how many MS sold. What matters is how many the OEMs sold and if they deem it a viable product. In a way it is a problem for MS that we all keep buying MS branded phones instead of Asus, Acer, Dell etc. Once they sell enough and their phones actually make it to the shops instead of only online, traction might be gained. But MS should also try and concour the business market. Android isn't an option for larger businesses and iPhone is a waste of money if MS can put a competitor half the price next to it.
  • There are so many editorials you missed.
  • The confusion comes from thinking that MS is a single unified company that has a narrow purpose.
    One of the large issues with sites like WinCentral, (as well as Thurrott, and MJF; but they are waking up to this) is that they are stuck on the idea that MS is a consumer focused company that is dedicated to bringing new experiences to its customers. The truth of the matter is that there is only one small and shrinking part of the company that does this... and they do want WinMo to succeed just as much as they want Xbox and Windows to do well. But they are only one small part of a much larger organization, and they only have so much say in what they can and cannot do.
    The far larger, and far more profitable, part of Microsoft is in providing business solutions and cloud services. Any time MS has focused on this they have done very well, and Balmer was wanting to move in a more consumer oriented direction so the board replaced him with someone who would bring things back to a more business oriented company. Look at it from an investor or board member perspective and everything makes much more sense: They support win10 because it is a huge gateway to keep business relationships open. If windows does well then it is much easier to push those businesses into other software subscriptions which are relatively easy money. Then compare that to Xbox or Windows Phone, both of which are consumer devices with far more individuals, who are often more finicky, who all have 100 different opinions about things, and who want things at rock-bottom prices, and who need far more customer support and infrastructure.
    Why be in those markets directly at all? Windows Phone makes them plenty of money as a patent producing machine, and so the board keeps putting WP back in a R&D role that has as few direct customers to support as possible while making patents it can charge other companies to use. The OS itself is good, but if they can scale back to 1-2 example models and then push 3rd party manufacturers to do the bulk of device support and infrastructure then it makes things much simpler for MS.
    Same with Xbox. The board does not like Xbox as a physical hardware device and want xbox to become more of a cloud based service platform that can exists across several first and 3rd party devices. They want xbox on phones and PCs and to get out of the dedicated console market, so they are transitioning the xbox console to be more PC like with every generation, and they are merging the store with Win10 as fast as they possibly can. But in this case the xbox team is dedicated to their hardware offering and the community around it, so they are fighting with everything they can to stay relevant in the console device market. When you realize that MS is a large company made up of several large departments that each have their own differing opinions on what their part of the company should be doing then all of their seemingly crazy actions start to make a weird sort of sense. It isn't that Windows Phone is a bad product (because it is awesome!); the issue is that the people in MS who want it to do well as a consumer product are a small minority. Xbox and other groups are similarly small minorities in the company, but they are either profitable or have a road to profitability, and as long as they keep that up they will be able to justify their existence. Unless WP gains some clear and easy path to profitability then they will be put in a very small box.
  • Windows phone is a bad product. Good products sell and gain popularity. Bad products don't, they wither and die. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • I don't think M$ stopped trying, I believe they became smarter. I see them doing what Samsung has done but with a twist, Samsung has put out masses of different phones something for everyone, MS is doing the same but this time their allowing other company's to build phones and M$ runs it's W10 on it. I'm mean look at HPs business phone, China's 6.9 phone, Alcatels W10, and I'm looking to when HTC has one and so on. That's list will continue to grow
  • I wish I had a product that only sold 1.2 million units.
  • If you had a $400 billion dollar company you wouldn't. That would be majorly embarrassing actually. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • That's still a heck of a lot of phones. I mean, how many Ferrari's or Lamborghini's were sold last year? How many stupid Toyota Prius' were sold? That's the analogy I like to use when comparing our Lumia Phones to iPhones. :) Some people just want quality and to have something different and exclusive.
  • really windowsfreak??   You're comparing a $550 phone versus a car that cost a couple of hundred thousand!   Seriously, that cannot strike you as a fair comparison does it?
  • By your analogy the Lumia should sell for $7,000 to $14,000 compared to $700 for a prius.
  • That's the most idiotic analogy I have ever heard of. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Are Lumia Phones limited production, low availability high-end luxury devices that cost 10x as much as iPhones?
  • The opposite. iPhone 6S costs 10x a Lumia 640/650.
  • No,  they are featureless phones that have awesome design and build...but no software to back it up.  If you want exclusive high end phones,  by vertu.  They are awesome!
  • But, iPhones are good quality.
  • So good, that they bend just from holding them in your pocket :D
  • I'm sorry but you're an idiot.
  • Thank you :D
  • They are!... Lol. Don't be biased.
  • I was just joking Rodney :D I don't know if you remember, but there was an issue like that with I don't know which model of the iPhone, it was just bending in owners pockets. And I have to bring this up every time someone mentions the good build quality of iPhones :D No product is perfect ;)
  • You had 8 down votes for that one, but don't worry I bumped 'em back up to 0 again.
  • @rodneyej Dude, you're forgetting its windows central...! Praising other platforms is strictly prohibited here.
  • 1 billion Iphones sold which pretty much portrayed about the quality of it..
  • ....and why are we beating this dead horse?...tell us something we don't already know!
  • I've had my 950 for a few months' now and couldn't be happier, especially running the latest Windows 10. More people will get on board when you learn how much better Windows 10 is from older versions.
  • You're obviously new to WM
  • Severn, People would get on board if MS gave two F&^KS about window mobile....If they marketed it correctly, and made it get some traction the dev's would come.  As it sits now,  developers see microsofts own view of mobile and say,  not worth even porting our ios apps to windows.
  • How many phones did Samsung sell?  How many phones did Apple sell? Maybe they need more time for W10 mobile to get noticed....  
  • Well, at least one as we gave up on Windows and moved to the S6.
  • same here.  We gave up on MS,  and moved to apple.  Could not be happier. 
  • I ordered the Priv for $299 on Daily Steals.  It arrives today.  I consider that a pretty low price to test out another ecosystem.  I'd rather go iOS but don't have the dinero (I'm still paying off my L950 until March). I'll write up my experience in the forums and wait to be trashed by the MS apologists.  I like the abuse ;).
  • Priv is a sweet phone.  If I never bought the ip6s I would have bought the priv.  The build quality of it is the best of any android phone.
  • Same here bought Iphone 6s plus and couldnt be more happier..Waiting for the new apps and games are finally over..
  • But beat goes on! I can only get the dual sim Lumia from the grey market...., down under.
  • Less, but much better Lumia. Step by step we going up. :-)
  • Step by step you're going down... But I guess it's a matter of perspective ;P Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Hey DJCBS, Does Sony provide support (update wise) like Nokia use to? I'm getting tired of Windows phone these days.
  • Only Samsung flagships and Nexus get really good updates. Sony isn't too bad with their flagships and HTC is OK. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Thanks. But I really don't like Samsung, I think I'm just going to buy Motorola or LG instead
  • Motorola was really good and still may be ok. They are not as good as they were before Lenovo. LG isn't bad either with their flagships. Any low-midrange phone isn't going to get updated. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • LG = Boring; Motorola = Boringer
  • I have to disagree about Samsung updates. Even their flagship devices take a hit when the latest fashion item with a stupid gimmick appears. Why do you think Samsung custom roms are so popular on XDA? One is the amount of junk that Samsung slow the device down with that can't be removed unless root. Two, support is dropped pretty quickly and to keep a device alive and relevant, custom is the way to go. Three, Android is terrible at resource management, and even a custom rom can't fix that,
  • You can disagree about Samsung all you want, but you are wrong. They are the best when it comes to supporting their flagships. Even the GS5, which is going on 3 years old is still getting updates. They even sometimes beat Nexus to Android's monthly security updates. Objectively, Samsung is the best for Android updates aside from Nexus. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • BlackBerry as well.
  • I like the blackberry concept but I went to preorder the new phone from Blackberry Germany and it cost 339,00€ = 376.48 US and that is to much for that phone
  • I looking at leaving windows phone I will give them a year then it will be time to replace my 640
  • I'm not DJCBS, neither do I own a Sony phone, but a friend of mine does, and has gotten 2 major updates so far, namely a 5.X and a 6.X, no idea about minor updates.
  • Thanks, Which phone does your friend use?
  • Ah, sorry for not mentioning it, it's the Z3
  • I no longer use Sony phones as I've had it with the horrible cameras and Sony's lack of effort to fix those.
    That said, they're not bad at software updates in what longevity of support is concerned.
    I'm currently using an S7 and while it gets Android's monthly security updates, the Z3C and the LG G4 (which I've used after the Z3C) doesn't. But they all got the latest Android version.
    And while I think in 2 years Samsung will likely not update the S7, Sony provides updates for at least 2 years. The Z3C came out with KitKat, got updated to Lollipop, Marshmallow and is expected to receive Nutella. So I think that's good support. However, as always, note all of these are flagship phones. Update support for non- flagship devices is never this good.
    In that sense, no current Android OEM is as good as Nokia. If you can wait a few more months, I'd do it and just get Nokia's upcoming Android flagships. Otherwise I'd recommend you the Galaxy S7. It's definitely the best Android phone you can currently get. And this is coming from someone who still really dislikes Samsung as a company. ;) Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Thanks, guess I'm gonna wait for Nokia :)
  • Thanks, guess I'm gonna wait for Nokia :)
  • acutally if we are talking steps and microsoft windows mobile,  its more like Nutella just shoved every windows phone / mobile user down the flight of stairs.
  • Yeah, better and better. /s But, hey, RS2 will start focusing on the features, so stay tuned on W10M for more features being added!
  • I'm not sure where Microsoft is going.  Microsoft have now apparently given up on cell phones which I thought is reason d'etre for Windows 10.  Microsoft appears to be following further and further behind.  Time for new leadership.
  • I agree Doug.  Nutella and his minions need to go.  Let's all send emails to the board..which you can do btw,  stating our displeasure with the current leadership team and how the consumer is suffering.  I would gladly get back on the MS side of things if that leadership team were all let go,  and fresh new thinkers were there pushing the technology instead of spending 26 billion dollars on a **** website.
  • Lol, send your email to that unmonitored account.
  • I never thought they would sell that many phones even with sales dropping and their retrenching.. With more OEMs coming into the picture and supposedly more smartphone focus in 2017 MS should sell more phones.
  • Microsoft clearly made it's intentions clear when they said that mobile isn't their focus this year. A number of their customers have switched to iPhones and Androids. Most have done so on a two year contract. Having abandoned the low spec and mid tier market this year obviously was a boon to Android OEMs. The iPhone SE was another device that catered to the small screen loving population. Nadella signed the mobile divisions death certificate with layoffs and scaling down and releasing poor quality hardware devices (950 series) with unfinished software.
    Fans just need to realize its over. There is no saviour coming next year. Your heralded Surface Phone will be an iPhone looking device running Windows 10. Over priced and will probably be marketed as being for the fans once more. Looks like the Lumia 950XL is the last purchase I've made when it comes to Windows phone. There is no recovering from this shitfest that was 2015-2016. Microsoft made it clear that they are a software company first and foremost.
  • Eh oh well life and the tech cycle move on who gives a crap. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • I've been waiting for the Elite X3, but if the camera is lack luster, I'm getting somewhat more interested in the Note 7. I am really liking how my 1520 is running with the most recent W10Mobile build, but I'm kind of a specs ***** and contemplating keeping my 1520 just because, but going T-Mobile for the possible buy one get one deal on the Note 7. If I do that, perhaps I can switch back when the surface phone becomes available. Conflicted. Been a windows phone fan for 2 1/2 years, and I hope they don't completely die off, but as others have stated, there aren't enough options these days for a high-end replacement to the 1520.
  • I had the 1520 and LOVED it. When I broke it, I switched back to iPhone and waited until a suitable replacement came along. I bought the unlocked 950XL Dual Sim and I have been very happy. It's solid on W10 Mobile. Hope that helps.
  • I'm pretty happy with my 1520 on this new build. Battery is doing better, camera is good again, no lag when saving to SD card anymore, ect.
  • What are you basing on when you say its camera is lackluster? That one leaked foggy photo from a factory worker? It was so bad you have to assume the lens had a smudge or something. I wouldn't put any weight on those leaked photos whether or not they are really from the camera.
  • I said if the camera is lackluster, because that has really been the only potential downside. I know it has a 16mp camera, but that doesn't mean it's a good camera. I bought my wife a BLU One Life X (2016 model) and it has decent specs, but the camera speed is just awful (it takes a long time to focus, before and after taking the shot). I'm still waiting to see some more reviews, but the Elite isn't expected until August 29th, and my wife is looking for us to get our own plan separate from my family's. And, with the Note 7 expected to arrive on Tuesday with the possible buy one get one option, it's a tempting offer.
  • Sorry, I misread your earlier post on "lackluster".
  • Also, with the Elite not coming through a carrier and if I don't want to buy it out-right, PayPal credit may be the only other option. I could buy it out-right, but I'm still on the fence.
  • And software is their forte. Can you really see HP spending a shed load of R&D on a so called *dead* platform. There are now more OEM's than before. Granted, most are from the far east, but I was surprised by the uptake of OEM's. Yes, MS did say that mobile wasn't its focus this year. TBH, it wasn't last year either. When they jump back on board, once the WP moniker is dumped, which has to be, they need to make the right decision with branding, should they release another device. IMHO, MS should stick to what they know. Software. If they do dabble in the mobile device, its got to be under the surface brand. MS proved they can get it right with the surface. And now 2 in 1's are everywhere. I hope they keep pushing the mobile OS. If I cant get an MS device in the near future, I would go third party, because for me, its not just the device, its the OS that keeps me around. I've got 14 phones, and the OS just works in my business. Seamless integration, and very straight forward to use. We tried googles offering, we tried apples. Android was like pulling teeth. It was frustrating and somewhat unreliable. iPhone was a failure as I couldn't justify the costs, and having 14 iphones in holders in a taxi left my drivers open to interaction with the less desirable low lives. For the price of two and a half IPhones, I kitted all the cars out, and had a bit left over in the communications budget. As I said, its about the OS for me, not the latest shiny device. I don't do fashion so there's another reason I don't do Android or iPhone.
  • I've seen HP spending 1 billion on dead Palm platform, so million or two of poor mobile investment wouldn't be surprising but even expected. Still I do hope that they'll succeed at least somewhat, just your statement is a bit off.
  • I like to see how MS explains to OEM's how all the good apps are going to I OS and android and nothing to their own platform.
  • Well, now we can wait for Daniel to tell us that this is still a fantastic performance since the sales are more than Tizen and Ubuntu Phones.
  • Jason will do that. ;) Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • There we almost no phones to sell, then they just chose not to promote them a lot. It's no surprise.
  • Probably ⅓ or ¼ of that 1.2mil are returned within two weeks. I know one guy that returned 950 (or XL) in a few days only because Uber app was terrible and went back to Android
    We know the app gap story AND not all existing apps are comparable to other two OSes
  • This drop in sales is even after there was a buy one get one free offer for the Lumia 950. Pretty much tells you that people don't want a Windows Mobile even when it's being given for free.
  • That was in Microsoft Stores. You expect that billions of people visit Microsoft Stores a month so everyone had that offer in front of him and refused?
  • Why is this surprising to anyone? MSFT said they were ditching Windows Phone at end of FY2015. There is no "retrenchment" or Phoenix-like rising from the ashes. Time to move on with Android and iOS (I don't like it but that's the facts!).
  • Dude, they are not completely ditching. Otherwise they wouldn't be releasing W10M builds like crazy. They are refocusing to businesses, semi-pros, and fans. How do I know? They said so. Read the announcements.
  • That is the last stop before killing it completely. Just ask Blackberry fans. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • MS is no RIMM. MS has billions in cash and counting. They make it another go at consumers also in due time once UWP matures a bit. Mark my words.
  • Well all of this was because they did not want to spend cash to cover losses, so it is questionable what they will do now when their move to cut cost resulted in even bigger cut of sales and losses probably haven't gone down too much. Clearly Microsoft has cash, but its management doesn't want to use it to pay mobile bills, well at least in this moment.
  • That's a perfectly valid question to ask. But did MS have their W10M polished enough and ready for heavy marketing until now? I would say no. It's gotten much better in recent months but even now some would argue it still has some important bugs (wifi, BT, etc.) to work out before RTM. I think they just had to wait for W10, UWP and W10M to get into shape before pushing it again. But yeah it sucks WP/WM lost so much momentum in the process.
  • I don't see any "facts" in what you said, but I should move on
  • I'd care if it went from MILLIONS to mere thousands but they still MILLIONS... =P
  • I guess you will start to care after this quarter then
  • Microsoft stated that they will make room for other oems to join. Let's see if they can fill the gap next year...
  • Why would OEMs bother making phones that won't sell? They will just continue selling their Android phones that they are allowed to customize and make their own. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Q2 market share ~ 0.3% Q3 could be 0.0x. Not dead by any means, just retrenching. Surface phone if there ever will be one is at least one year away. "As anticipated, our change in phone strategy resulted in a reduction in units sold and associated expenses in fiscal year 2016, and this trend is expected to continue in fiscal year 2017."
  • :( What about the sales of the other OEMs? Mostly Chinese OEMs
  • I do not think anyone cares about garbage brands. If people do not buy known and trusty brands, they will for sure not invest in a brand that has no name. How much time it took for Huawei to gain trust on people, to become a "known brand"? a long time I would say
  • You're right but I think Chinese people tend to buy from their country's OEMs :/ Those who we don't have a clue about them
  • Most devices, including apple are made in non descript, Chinese factories. Pretty much all OEM's are manufactured in China, by the same factories producing the so called garbage. Many devices are badge engineered. The same in the motor trade. These days engines are manufactured in non descript factories. You buy a Volkswagen with a diesel engine. You've bought a VW yes? Wrong. The same engine, from the non descript factory, is also in Peugeot, Citroen, Vauxhall, Fiat etc. An unusual analogy, but one that fits. One of the few OEM's not to use Chinese factories, was MS, who set up in Vietnam. So the statement of 'garbage' is somewhat misdirected and ill informed. Quality can be an issue, in some factories, but the OEM's ( most of Android, and ALL apple ), choose there because its cheap and bigger mark ups can be had, plus quality has improved.
  • Thank you for the info! :) Very nice explanation!
  • True to this!
  • Not much. Q1 all the OEMs sold a few thousand phones.
  • We'll wait from HP, Acer, Samsung, and more smaller OEMS to report :)
  • HP and Samsung will report 0. Acer a few hundreds.
  • Really?Anyway I looked at it,insider's have been taken for a cheeserble tiles,no brightness' control bar in the action Center.and by august 2 it will be all over for the year -kids corner and fm removed.Hell, am going mad.
  • No way the continued development for Windows 10 Mobile is gonna end!
  • That guy didn't understand the roadmap of Windows 10 (re)development, just take it easy, dude.
  • Yeah :)
  • Man, they're rebuilding Windows start from its basic features. If there are so few features that it's okay! TH1, TH2, and RS1 are intended to complete the OneCore implementation across platforms, and once they're stepping up to RS2, features will be added.
  • Or it will be killed. Without OEM support and no way forward, they won't have much reason to keep developing it. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • 'posted via Android'
  • Exactly..
  • LOL
  • Not really. But what I see is what they're really doing for. If they keep developing this far, it means that they will keep supporting the mobile platform, regardless of their mobile sales. We won't see the growth in the near future, but let's see.
  • You make good comments based on what you've read from reliable sources.. Good job.
  • Thanks. I just read from trusted, unbiased sources, and I found this. Thankfully, after about 3.5 years, I still find this is still trusted source as the first I found it.
  • How many lifetimes will that take?
  • Depends on your perspective.
  • Yeah yeah yeah I don't care. I still use my 950xl everyday and love it. My lifestyle fits well with windows mobile. I only use productivity apps that are alight with my job.
  • I just hope someone will keep on making phones that run windows10. The OS just looks nice and feels good as well. Android and iOS just look boring to me.
  • I think all 3 oses look nice, but windows 10 mobile takes the cake. I choose windows 10 mobile bc of looks and what it can do. It does what I need it to do in a way iOS and android can't. I don't care if the other oses have a lot of apps... I have enough apps anyways, including 30 games (I play a certain game depending on my mood) sorry if this doesn't make sense but windows is amazing Imo
  • I am on 2nd 950XL and can't complain (Pokémon is just not what moves me). My girlfriend had 925 on Tmo, tried 6s on Verizon, and now cannot be happier with 950. She is a fashionista kind of a girl and still could not stick with Apple despite of much better design (subjectively, that is). My 2c ;)
  • These guys over here seems like would break up with a girl just cause she doesn't wanna use wp like how she's been forced to.........
  • I thought the retrenchment was going on until the Anniversary Update is released, then supposedly going to switch focus to Mobile. I wonder if Microsoft follows their original plan now that we are days away.
  • It is supposed to be until sometime next year. Not sure how they expect to comeback after so long though. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Most companies can't come back. But MS is not among them. They have very strong hold in business IT and, if they are willing, they can spend some money to give it another go in consumer segment also. It's not like they will be starting from scratch with no apps, no tools, no ties to world's most popular desktop OS, etc.
  • They don't really have apps and the ones that are available are garbage compared to other platforms. They aren't going to continue throwing money away on something that has no chance. Unless they have something truly revolutionary to release next year, they have no chance. W10 Mobile isn't revolutionary. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Yes, I do remember them saying there will be a time for it. Did they say it would be AU? Anyway it does seem like a good juncture to flip the switch on.
  • At least one more year. Maybe more.
    "As anticipated, our change in phone strategy resulted in a reduction in units sold and associated expenses in fiscal year 2016, and this trend is expected to continue in fiscal year 2017."
  • Their fiscal year 2016 just ended in June. Even if they flip the switch on in August, it's going to take a while to see numbers improve so saying slow business will continue in 2017 doesn't mean much with respect to OP's point.
  • Well they expect trend of reduction to continue for at least end of H1 2017. I don't see Surface Phone in that picture but perhaps its hidden somewhere :)
  • Of course they expect that because Surface Phone, if released in 2017H1, would be a premium hero model sold in much lower volume than the combined 14M units they sold in 2016. If they do put their foot on gas pedal again, bulk of volume will come from OEMs. So your quote doesn't mean anything here.
  • They expect reduction to continue. No sense comparing to 2016. Trend of reduction to continue.
  • What? Do you have a reading comprehension problem? The trend is fiscal 2016 vs fiscal 2017. I told you how MS's statement doesn't mean much at this point with respect to OP's point. Now you play "bwah reduction bwah continue"?
  • Perhaps you are right. I see trend of ~50% reduction every quarter compared to previous since new 'strategy'. Perhaps they will turn the boat sometime during fiscal year 2017.
  • So much negativity. This isn't competition. It's business. Your, "team" isn't losing. I'm not missing out on anything but if you think you are, move on with your life.
  • The best comment so far!
  • Exactly, I have everything I need in this 950, and most of the things I want. No one had it all and it's just business. I hate when ppl come here to complain about something they no longer use. Also more than a million sales, awesome
  • Atleast now, MS should realize the real issues of its win10 production build, literally 10's of my friends & colleagues chooses Android over Windows just bcz of the present bugs. People are actually scared to purchase windows 10 phones, battery is worst, full of bugs, app crashes, lack of apps make users drive away..... days r gone where we use to say Windows phone doesn't require higher RAM's, higher battery power.....
  • Android is notoriously buggy, and Google have to keep sending updates every time it rains because of bugs / instability and security. If google could get past these issues that have prevailed from day one, it would be a good mobile os, not a fully integrated OS, but a good mobile one.
  • Fully integrated? What does that even mean? It is just some buzz word that the cloud has made obsolete. You can even get Windows 10 notifications on Android now. Android hasn't been buggy for years. It became quite stable and feature packed since 4.0 was released. You don't grow to 80% of the market with the product you described. The truth is, Android is fast and reliable. W10 Mobile has shown what happens to a buggy and messy OS. People stop buying them and they stop quickly. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • As per my knowledge, Android phone is not buggy but laggy, it require Higher ram, battery backup just like win10 and all the features in Android works better. If you want to attract new users either u should have lot of apps or atleast bugless OS where people like me who hate lot of junk in their phone. My friends who r using Win10 mobiles in their production build are planning for purchasing Android mobiles bcz of too many bugs, worst battery backup. make production build bugless and not too power drainer, people r waiting for Anniversary updates in their mobile but nothing gonna change for mobiles. their main aim is to push Redstone updates to PC's.
  • add expensive against specs, plastic
  • Even in the s7.
  • Windows phone are amazing. But Microsoft must give attention towards shape with competition to other companies. As all Samsung phones have super amoled display and Chinese phones have sleek metallic body and minimum 2gb ram
  • You're right. Not just simple designs, but aime design that stands out from afar.
  • That's a decline. But if we play our cards right, it would only be the decline of an arrow ready to shoot.
  • Hey Daniel, Blackberry sold better than Lumias.
  • I just love how Windows 10 for mobile is shaping up. It's definitely an improved and refreshing OS now. IMO, much better those bubblegum OSes.
  • yes agree, but a dead one
  • I swear, if I hear the word "retrench" one more time from this website...
  • the only trenching MS and Nutella are doing with mobile is the trench being build to the technological sewer system.   Retrenched to the gutter.
  • New enterprise numbers out. It will drop under 1 million next quarter. Surface phone pro plus or whatever MS will call it, WILL NOT PUSH NUMBERS. Its really too late now windows phone is dead no matter how great, expensive and beautiful next flagship will be. Nokia next here, bye
  • nah, I don't think you are correct at all.
  • Hope not, we'll see. Like my 950XL and 1520 a lot but its kind of too much we'll see, coming soons, app lack, no push in phone business that people jump ship and they dont coming back. And I'm in line for testing the new Nokia. If I hadnt had insider preview install on both I would have left half a year ago.
  • New Nokia? Where can one sign up? :)
  • :) I'm in line already, but will probably wait until end of 2016 or beginning of 2017
  • Snapchat cost me £700 2 days ago because the 950XL I bought my wife in December has no support for it. I got sick of the moaning and gave in and bought her an iPhone 6S Plus. She said she still preferred the 950XL as it was more user friendly but ultimately less fun, and fun is what she wants from a phone. We are all on the cusp of being forced to switch to WhyPhone or Blandroid. If things don't improve SOON then Windows Phone will be gone forever and we will have no other option. ChackraCore running on OSX and having UWP apps becoming cross platform makes it look very much like the future of "Made for Windows" apps is not just on windows devices. I have been with the platform since my HTC HD7 and I am loving my 950XL but I have to confess to losing faith that things will change. Would be nice to hear some news about growth.  
  • I hope she's finally happy to have Snapchat app in her phone now that she has iPhone 6S Plus.
  • Higher than i expected honestly. I was guessing a few hundred thousand.
  • I'm not worried about Lumia phone sales, as Microsoft also has monthly income from software sales. Let's see Lumia + Windows store sales, vs iPhone + App store, vs Nexus + Google play store, then we will have a fairer comparison.
  • Good point
  • Uh, I don't think that's going to improve Microsoft's position all that much.
  • I realize that those millions sold are a small number compared ot the vast multi-millions sold by Samsung and Apple but I have to think that it is still A LOT of phones sold. Blackberry sells far far less and they are still around so how bad can it really be?  (I hear crickets)
  • Blackberry killed their phone OS and they run Android now. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • Presently in a relationship with a Red 920....8.1 keeping the fire lit. Till death do us part.
  • I am surprised, I am not expecting that numbers. I thought, I am using Lumia 950XL, and that I am one of the very few in the world who has this phone like one in a few thousand.
  • If the sales keep going down it will will go the same way blackberry went, no support for apps and in the end it will die. Until then happy to use my lumia 650
  • Microsoft is just cutting down wp increasingly.
  • So, wait, is this about Q2 or Q4 sales numbers? The title and its following content make it hard to tell.
  • MS has a weird fiscal year that doesn't quite match up with the rest of the industry - their Q4 is everyone else's Q2. A better way of putting it might be, "the quarter ending in June."
  • I would expect them to refocus on Mobile shorty of they have any plans on being relevant. These numbers are not good.
  • I have 950xl, its been very nice. Getting better. Boy, MS asks a helluva lot of its believers. We are truly hardcore...
  • again, for the 1000th time, they will not abandon the phone market, it's too big.  They will adopt the same strategy as apple where they will hold a small market share and keep developing the product until their is a new development that will spur mobile growth.  It makes no sense to not develop this market so all of you saying Windows should just fold on phones are going to be playing harps next to pearly gates before that happens....
  • I moved back to android with the galaxy s7, after 5 years on windows at least. I do miss a lot, the operating system is much more elegant. Cortana is so much better than google now in so many ways. The whole OS is better - i do miss live tiles! Even the camera on the 950 performs better with its flash/no flash photos in certain situations. There is a lot to love about windows, and i do hope it's the future, as it's easily the best of the three. But you just can't deny how slow windows 10 mobile is compared to android... yeap they really lost that edge, that made me choose windows (they should have really pushed that 5 years ago!). One day i hope I'll come back :) Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
  • lumia950 is so good
  • I have a 950, and I hope the anniversary update improves things.  I kept telling myself that it's really not a bad device, but now I can just say it's "not terrible".  Problems:  The infamous app freaking tired of seeing those icons for Apple/Play stores everywhere, but no Windows, the UI is finally starting to get old...starting to tire of the whole tiles thing (personal preference), the camera is just too slow compared to iPhone (which is practically instant as fast as you can touch the button), it will lose cellular - have to reboot to even get it back, it almost doesn't work at all with my 2015 Honda Accord (a VERY common car)...I get a asks if I want to read it or ignore it...I say "read it" as clear as humanly possible after the prompt...then it pauses and disconnects (makes me so angry sometimes), it has completely locked up on me a few times - had to remove the battery to reboot it, and it takes too long to update or reboot.  Seriously, this can't be the best that Microsoft can do.  I have been with it since the first Samsung Focus, and my next phone in the next year is likely a Samsung Galaxy.  Even if there is a Surface Phone that appears awesome, I'm not sure I can trust that it won't have the same types of problems.  That's the key word - "trust".  In order to win back the loyal customers, they're going to have to do something really extreme.  I have no idea what that would need to be at this point though, so good luck to them.
  • Yeah, there are so many issues with Microsoft mobile software I'm amazed they managed to sell as many as they did, I can't think of a first party app I use on my 950 XL that doesn't have an issue.
  • Good luck with the Samsung I went that route also when the 950/950xl came out. Purchased a Note 5 great phone as long as you don't have to make calls. AT&T told me you can't use third party apps so that kinda close's the app gap. Any way back with a windows 950xl much happier all the way around.
  • I wanted to help Microsoft to increase that number, but they didn't release 950 here in Brazil.
  • This retrenchment plan is hurting MS a lot. Also when they finally advertise and market mobile it will be difficult to get lots of sales. Average consumers, not people like us don't like change when it comes to tech. I think it will take years to get a high amount of sales, also they may never have more than 10% market share.
  • I have been using my Lumia 950xl as daily driver for 7 months. Still I was love to use the phone. Everyday windows 10 mobile was improving. By the way I can say that within 2 years windows 10 mobile would go more than 10% of market share.
  • Microsoft
  • Microsoft
  • Microsoft
  • Windows Mobile will not be abandoned by Microsoft because it is already integrated in Windows and the Moneyloosing has been stopped by Nadella. App Builders should know that you can earn sometimes more Money with Windows mobile than with IOS or Android as the Competition from other Programmers is less. For me Microsoft Phone Prices are very competitive, the OS is aesthetically pleasing and secure. For all this i am willing to accept fewer Apps which often i substitute with their WebApps on the Startpage.
  • So what. No surprise. MS has accounted for that.    Just recently got my Lumia 950, put the lastest fast lane Preview on it 
    and I am a happy camper so far and do not expect that to change.    MS is a company that has the ability
    to unbelievably srcew up a certain thing for a long time
    till everybody is ready to tear their hair out.
    And then suddenly start to stop messing around and get serious. MS just recently stopped screwing up Windows for Mobiles
    and they are getting their act together. Finally.  W10M is here to stay.  .    
  • Still have my 1520 . Will Not buy another WP again . The only positive WP had was HERE+ and now that is gone & replaced with the terrible Maps that gives wrong direction and does Not recalculate in off line mode .   Now I am paying extra for Sygic . I am waiting for Nexus new 2016 phone only where it gets OTA upgrade right away and I can enjoy HERE+ again  
  • Here+ was great, I tried using the new nav app and it could be alot better. It seemed like it was a few seconds behind my current position when, accuracy was off. Here+ was always on point.
  • I wish Microsoft would put Windowsphone out of it's misery. Its like watching a slow demise. Microsoft should either promote their product, join android or just stop making phones. I have a Lumia 930 and this is just painful.
  • Do something before it reaches zero.. Thats it
  • The truth is; people hate Microsoft. If you look at the comments, even in this website called "WindowsCentral" people's opinion are of hate against windows, but sometimes... You just read
    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
      Android is lag. Bad software for cheap phones. iPhones are overprice phone for people who try to overcompensate... There's no absolute right or wrong. Comments try to "guess" their strategy if can be guessed reading news. There's no strategy, just moves. Right or wrong, "expectations" vs "reality"
  • Microsoft is going to phase out of Mobile hardware; but not eliminate production as it's extra cash for their pocket; for now.  It would be nice if Microsoft gave Lumia owners a sweet deal on any Lumia in the coming months, I'd buy another or two.
  • They don't need to work on the hardware, just work on the app gap and if they do that it's gonna be fine
  • i am using MS lumian for one year now , it feels better with windows 10 than 8.1,but  it looks company is not intrested to promote  its phones, number of APPS increased but still not competing with Android or IOS .