Microsoft's Project Astoria has leaked letting Windows 10 Mobile sideload Android APKs directly

Ever since Microsoft announced their Bridge technologies at Build 2015 questions about how they work (and how well) have been asked. The tools let developers port over Android apps (Project Astoria), iOS apps (Project Islandwood), web apps (Project Westminster) and classic Win32 apps (Project Centennial) to Windows 10 including phone.

This morning, the actual tools for Project Astoria have leaked onto the web and users can freely (and illegally) download Android APKs and sideload them to their Windows Phone running Windows 10 Mobile. This follows yesterday's leak of the documentation for the project.

As it turns out, the tools are very powerful with the only limitation being the inability to run Google Play apps, which is in many ways trivial (this also means Snapchat will not work). Indeed, Windows Central has learned these tools are far from final and that the upcoming TH2 release has many more improvements, promising a much better user experience.

Microsoft going all out courting iOS and Android developers for Windows 10

Windows Central is not linking to the file nor providing instructions on how to sideload. Simply put, the software is not finished, and the ability to steal Android apps is not something we would like to promote. We also don't need the traffic. Obviously, this situation is unique and Windows Central is caught between reporting on this and aiding and abetting it.

Developer Concerns

The idea that developers can simply and directly convert an Android APK to a Windows 10 APPX is both fascinating and a bit disturbing for developers. Here is why:

Android developers – Their apps can now "easily" be downloaded and installed on Windows Phone, often without paying or abiding by the software's EULA. Of course, this not new, as this situation has always existed for Android developers.

Windows Phone developers – This situation, however, is unique. Windows Central has already spoken to a few developers who are distraught about how easy it is to port. Indeed, a few of them feel burned and are ready to give up on native Windows Phone app development because why bother?

Certainly Project Astoria is controversial. On the one hand, why should developers now make Windows Phone apps when they can just do Android and port it over?

The alternative argument, of course, is that developers want to write a native Windows 10 app so that it can run on the phone, PC and other Microsoft technologies. These are places where Android apps cannot go even as a port.

Once again, this is a chicken and egg situation for Microsoft. If developers port over their Android apps to Windows Phone, Windows 10 Mobile's market share can grow. If it grows, developers can re-write their apps for all of Windows 10 to target an even larger market.

Then again, developers may port Android apps (or not) and Windows Phone native app development languishes and goes nowhere.

For Windows Phone users

Putting aside the developer situation, which at best is now very unstable, what about consumers?

Assuming developers bother to port their apps – something that remains to be seen – certainly those using a Windows Phone could see a big boost in available apps and games from these Bridge tools.

Boosting apps and games in the Store, after all, is the point of the projects.

The Android apps are not just run in-situ but can plug into various components of Windows 10 including notifications and Live Tiles. These are the 'bridges' to native functions that Microsoft refers to in the documentation.

This ability is why these tools are so significant and impressive. However, besides a few enthusiasts going through a cumbersome process to sideload Android apps, it is not clear that this method will ever see the light of day.

We do know that Microsoft is not at all happy with today's leak. However, they are making the best of it by collecting a ton of new telemetry from those who are using these tools, so if you do this, consider yourself part of an experiment.

To our developers, what do you think of today's news? Will you continue native Windows 10 development for mobile or give up for Android and iOS?

Request and Warning

Windows Central is taking a hard line on posting of links to these tools, direct or indirect. Please do not post links or directions in comments as you risk having the post deleted. Continued abuse of this rule may result in account termination.

Daniel Rubino is the Executive Editor of Windows Central, head reviewer, podcast co-host, and analyst. He has been covering Microsoft here since 2007, back when this site was called WMExperts (and later Windows Phone Central). His interests include Windows, Microsoft Surface, laptops, next-gen computing, and arguing with people on the internet.

464 Comments

Wow, thats good news
Getting more apps on Windows phone promotes the platform and removes the primary barrier to entry. Remember, if developers want their app on the 1 billion desktop devices they still need a native app. But this may help the mobile space in the meantime.
That's how I see it too. Still, some developers I have spoken with feel a little betrayed. This of course could be just a knee-jerk reaction, so it will be interesting to see how it progresses.
I suspect Microsoft has purposely leaked it... To see the market reaction... Definitely... Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
They have not and they are not happy about it. It is still quite incomplete and does not show the tools in the best of light right now. Look at all the talk about piracy, etc.
Pretty silly to talk about piracy on W10M with 0.1% market share when you can do the same on Android with 80% market share.
Yeah when its a staple for any bbos10 user to tap into googleplay/Amazon app store. Its odd for wc to take a stance when cb wont
They won't be able to. If you read the article you would know that the apps have to be modified slightly in order to work. So, apps downloaded straight from Amazon or Google Play won't install. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
Agreed. Besides, if they were to leak it, this definitely won't be the correct time to do that.
@Daniel: Small typo there: "The idea that developers can simply and directly convert an Android APK to a Windows 10 APPX ..."
Fixed, thanks.
Piracy may be a concern, but Android allows you to install random apks as well, so I don't see the problem. Also, I just used it to install Slack (free chat app), and it works almost perfectly despite complaing about the missing Google Play services. The only thing not working is the push notifications. And it took me less than 10 minute to do that, everything worked as intended, so the tools are great.
I wouldn't say android "allows" anything... You have turn of the third party security...
Same in Windows. You have to enable developer mode, otherwise you can't sideload them.
And turning on all sources isn't exactly rocket science.. This would do nothing for piracy
They are NOT random, somebody spent time writing them. And they are NOT modified to work on another platform as this is doing.
Did I say sombody didn't spend time writing them? Random was probably not the best word, I meant apps not available from the official store. In any case, on Windows the Android apps are not modified either. Windows Mobile 10 contains an Android virtual machine (linux under HyperV) that runs the unmodified apks. And as you probably know, it's easy and usually legal to get the apk packages for the free apps. And since you seem to imply something with your use of caps lock, I only intend to use this for free apps. And I will be even happier when the devs start uploading them to the Windows Store so I don't have to mess around with sideloading. In fact the developers of the app I tested (Slack) were quite happy when I told them that I installed it on my phone.
Piracy may be a concern, but Android allows you to install random apks as well, so I don't see the problem.
You don't see the problem? We don't want Windows 10 Mobile to become the next Android, do we? As of this moment, Windows Phone is the most secure, stable and fast Mobile OS. Let's let it stay that way, shall we?
No, I want to Android apps on Windows 10 over!
> Windows Phone is the most secure, stable and fast Mobile OS I'll give you secure. Stable I'd need to see some stats on. Fast? No way. WP is a lag-fest.
BS. On my Lumia 930 every well written app runs like butter, and so does the OS.
Smooth isn't the same as fast. Windows Phone is slow. The animations and loading times are annoying. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
I don't use Andrioid a lot. But from the time I have played around with it, I don't see things like you see them. I've only had 1 Windows Phone, the 520 where I felt like things didn't load instantly for me
No, they don't. And I've got one word that any Windows Phone user has undoubtedly come to rue as proof: "Resuming..."
Oh its fast all right. Haven't reset my phone in a year and still runs like it used to on the first day. Windows phone is secure because its sandboxed. Testing has to do with the the OS suspending the apps. Happens on win 8.1 too. Haven't seen this on win 10
Hahahah go try Android! i doubt it
You don't see the problem? We don't want Windows 10 Mobile to become the next Android, do we? As of this moment, Windows Phone is the most secure, stable and fast Mobile OS. Let's let it stay that way, shall we? While I agree with the sentiment, the reality is that unless the Windows Mobile market share grows to something like 10% soon and becomes somewhat profitable, Microsoft will probabil scale down the phone and phone OS part of the business even further or even give it up completely. They are already launching Android and iOS apps before Windows Mobile. So I think of this as a last chance for Windows phones. The choice isn't between being the most secure and stable or not. The choice is between being scrapped or not. I'm a big Windows Phone fan, but even I was considering an Android phone due to the the missing apps that I need for my job. Astoria fixes that problem.
Is the developer concerned that when the app is being ported, it's not being feature-full or paid use being implemented? Or salty because someone beat them to bringing their app to the platform? If I saw people porting over my app like crazy to their phones, that's obvious reason enough to show people want that application on their devices.. Which in turn sounds like a good piece of the share to make your application to the platform to begin with (If they haven't seen that before) no?
So Android developers will know their apps are showing up on Windows Phones? I mean, they'll start getting usage stats reported or something and it will say "4.5% of users on Windows 10 Mobile" or something like that? Or it will still think it's an Android device? Or, they don't get usage stats like that at all? I'm confused on how developers would even know people were doing this, particularly for apps that don't even connect to services.
@Mristian - cant ignore the legality though. The main issue though is if the dev don't want their app on winp for whatever reason.
It's their choice regardless how we may feel about it.
So worth highlighting, but it is a fraction of a fraction of piracy that happens in the overall scheme of things though.
You need to go write a quality app and come back and let me know how hard you worked at it, then to have it stolen.
No, I don't.
There is NOTHING illegal about this, and it isn't piracy. Please fix your article.
You might want to re-read all those T&C's, EULA's, atlases, statutes etc.
how is it related to piracy? calling taxi apps like uber - which is bitaksi for turkey - and other popular apps are not available on windows phone. and these apps are already free. developers are taking that risk by uploading their content to play store already. so if these daily apps that are completely free for android users can work easily on windows phone without doing so much work, that is especially good thing for us. Just to clarify, yemeksepeti, bitaksi, enpara.com apps are examples for Turkey and these apps will never come to Windows Phone if the Project Astoria doesn't exist. And again, I am sorry for you Daniel, but wmpoweruser once again steal the all show from windowscentral. I used to read all the rumors of windows phone once and that is upsetting me that windowscentral has become a follower especially for windows phone.
It is certainly not a leak on purpose. But this leak does have several implications: 1. It proves that Project Astoria bridge and W10M Android Subsystem work technically, even it is not finished yet. The WP users generally feel very upbeat for this development. 2. It would pressure and encourage the Android app developers to take the Project Astoria seriously. To submit the ported apps to Windows Store for a legal distribution is the only way to stop sideloading. 3. All phone vendors could be encouraged to build W10M version of their flaglships which can run both the WP native apps as well as the Android apps thru either direct download or Project Astoria app porting. Project Islandwood won't hurt either. 4. The early adopters automatically become the Project Astoria Preview testers. Their experiences will provide the feedbacks to the Project Astoria team. The Android app developers and Windows Store are not getting paid during the testing period. This is an unsual situation they have to live with.
This is not betrayal it is just part of development for porting apps from android to windows
This will make them easy & save money
Really? So, to all the devs who took the time to learn how to write for WP should be thrilled? I don't think so, it takes a lot of work and time to learn this very, very specific skillset when they could have just learned to write for Android and then just ported over a cheapo app. It seems like WP users don't care where an app comes from as long as it comes from "somewhere".
When you get no apps and looks like nobody trusted then must understand to the final consumer, if the developers learned to Windows language why not Microsoft do an porting app from Windows phone to android and IOS respectively, is if only did Windows apps why not port my apps to android without lost the look and feel and robustness of Windows phone apps on android
So what's the alternative? We should be stuck with barren appstore? And ignore an innovative bridge that can still encourage coding a windows specific app because you spent time on a specific skill set? This happens all the time in various industries. Don't get me wrong I really appreciate the windows devs, but this has gone on long enough and unfortunately the status quo has been proven to be ineffective
If the Windows Phone apps are superior to the Android competition those developers have nothing to fear, do they? You are acting like it's the end of the world. It's not. The Windows Phone devs will just have more competition. And more competition is always a good thing for the end users. And if the platform grows as a result of this that means more customers that can buy their apps, so it's a win even for the devs. The alternative is Windows Mobile dieing. That will result in a complete loss revenue for the devs, and will be bad for consumers as well because they'll have less alternatives.
Is not a betray after all the same developers created the snowball, now if the people which could turn the apk to appx successfully then proves that is interest in their apps coming to Windows phone and also that although Astoria be already on alpha is a powerful tool which dev n must take seriously and get attention, now is not excuses for developers to not have available their app on Windows, even Microsoft is making easy to them port their app and giving the other check to be slapped by move their exclusive apps to the rival
@Daniel Rubino - thanks for the well written and balanced article.
Also nice to see the legality highlighted which is something I've mentioned, but not seen reported.
This really makes it in the app dev interest to port it and put it in the win store though. As most people wouldn't be bothered to sideload it themselves unless its not available in store.
You wrote an article about installing Windows 10 on Macs just recently now. Did you ever try Rosetta applications in OS X back in 2006 / 2007? It may sound off-topic, but it is not. The point is, Apple knew people would not buy Intel Macs when all their fav apps (like Photoshop) were custom-made for PowerPC, so the Rosetta app translation layer was developed to let PPC-only apps to run with no extra user complexity, on Intel hardware. Yes, some apps ran a lot slower. I was there, using a Macbook 1,1 model and it worked pretty good. So, what happened? Did every developer say "why bother making new universal PPC/Intel binaries? My old PPC app works fine!". No, they went out and made universal apps that were optimised and ran straight off with full performance on both platforms. Before you knew it, every critical app was converted to universal and later it ran as Intel-only. The transition was complete and Apple (and devs) have been happy ever since. So, fast forward to now and look at Microsoft: they are not in the same situation, but it is similar in some ways. Putting it short and concise: If Apple could do it, so can Microsoft. It will take a lot of time though.
I don't understand the betrayal bit. Can someone explain who this technogy would hurt? It doesn't seem to enable piracy in any particular way. If the APK is available, then it's available. Anything being done here would be just as possible on Android proper, or Bluestacks, or DuOS, or whatever...It's like saying WINE enables piracy of Windows Apps on Linux. You still need the app...
This reminds me of hopw Blackberry 10 tried to get devs on the platform. Failed because people would rather sideload the latest app from them self rather than wait for an outdated version. Big name apps don't care for a few million users. They feel that if their platform is worthy, it should have at least 20% of the market share. I know you are going to mention Desktop here but I am speaking strictly of Android apps on other platforms.
I am not a developer or programmer. This is not a criticism of anyone. It seems to me that one category of Windows Phone applications is "App Gap Fillers."
That is, apps that provide functionality similar to popular iOs or Android apps.
These gap filler apps may just provide a "needed" app, or may be superior to the iOs/Android app.
It may be superior by being more constant with Windows Phone, live tile support, etc. I feel that these gap filler apps largely exist because the iOs/Android developers have CHOSEN not to develop for Windows Phone. This choice by iOs/Android developers opened a window of opportunity (no pun intended) for the app gap fillers. The iOs/Android developers have always had the option to release a Windows Phone version their app, thus closing the window of opportunity. I can see how developers of these apps might feel that MS is making it too easy for iOs/Android competitors to compete with their apps. The Windows Phone app developers will have to compete based on the merits of their own app, not just the lack of availability of a "missing" app. The windows phone developer may win in a head to head to head comparison. The universal app model increases W10 mobile potential revenue by opening up W10 desktop. The "bridge" technologies will help fill the app gap which MAY help W10 mobile adoption. Native W10 universal apps have the potential of being the best. Filling the app gap is good for users; hopefully it will be good for the WP developers as well.
The rules of the game are changing.
When one door (Window?) closes, another opens. (Pun intended.)
I think most developers who work hard to make good Windows native apps will see positive affects from user's being able to compare their apps directly to Android and iOS apps in the future. I'm thinking of Rudy, who's 6tag app, I think, would stand up to anything available from iOS or Android.
In fact this can enhance users experiences and extend Windows Phones life. From my point of view this is something very good for all WP users...
Yes, does this also mean Windows mobile will have more apps than iOS and Android since Windows mobile will have Windows 10 universal apps, iOS, and Android apps?
Yeah, but immagine the same apps 2 times. Developers might drop development for wp app version, and that's not good
If a native W10 Mobile app is better, than the "bridge" iOs/Android version the developer will be "encouraged" by W10 users to continue/maintain/improve the native app. If a native W10 Mobile app is not any better, than the "bridge" iOs/Android version, what loss is it to users if the native app is dropped. Users needs will still be met by the "bridge" app.
It didn't worked for me :cry:
That's a matter of perspective.
Not really. Aside from already stated issues, this is not the answer for typical non technical users. They're not going to know how to do this, that it even exists. They will rely on the store.
Why don't Microsoft provide some incentive for developers who make native Windows apps ?
They already did a while ago, they paid truckload sof money for many developers to port to Windows Phone platform. It didn't work out too well. In fact, the biggest benefactory was a developer that released hundreds of crappy apps that merely replicates many of the iOS/Android apps because MS was paying per app. The reality is that incentives don't work when you don't have the users pushing you forward.
Welll to know the main thing is .! Apps ain't there so the platform didn't worked out to be ahuge success .!! Later when microsoft is trying to get the devs onto this .! Its becoming a one sided affair why do that when some devs making native apps .!! Microsoft is in squeeze what to do .!, basically trying to make the consumer winner here .! Maybe microsoft should make up a better incentive option for devs who are developing native apps for windowsphone than porting !! Hope so that boasts there morale XD well it will be intresting to see what happens next in future
They already did a while ago, they paid truckloads of money for many developers to port to Windows Phone platform. It didn't work out too well. In fact, the biggest beneficiary was a developer that released hundreds of crappy apps that merely replicates many of the iOS/Android apps because MS was paying per app. The reality is that incentives don't work when you don't have the users pushing you forward.
No if they make it 50/50 for native universal apps at least the first year of release vs usual30/70 for ported ones that will be surely a solid incentive
Mirosoft tried, they paid a number of developers a handsome amount of cash to do a WP version of their app. Mostly these developers did a basic 'it works' version, took the cash and abandoned development. No matter how much effort Microsoft puts in to this, most developers really could not care less. And I'm pretty sure some major ones are under pressure from mainly Google to not port to Windows. Google knows full well that Windows is their main competition in the long run and have been doing whatever it takes to slow down the growth of the Windows mobile ecosystem for years basically.
The real power of these tools is that devs can so very little work and get an app into the store. Sideloading is just an inconvenient side effect. If this is successful at getting more apps, I believe it will result in bring more users to the platform. If you get a stronger user base, they will want native apps and devs will be happy to switch to native.
True to a point, what most people don't realize is how much time it takes to maintain just one quality app. I could honestly never see having the time to maintain an Android app while trying to maintain a native WP app. It really is more than you think.
But probably those tools only works for apps of android 4,4 and not with M version and also porting doesn't mean that the entire code can't be ported, I think must be specific software that can not be ported like antiviruses, system tools, specific map system or specific systems which uses the kernel source and certain dependencies too or abilities of playback that are not present on Windows phone and Windows 10
I have faith that since Win10 is on millions upon millions peoples computers and it uses some sort of APP interface. Devs, banks, companies would be jumping to make apps for Windows now. Which of course easily leads effortlessley to Win 10 Phone getting thos apps. I hope MS focuses more on Plan A rather than focusing on side loading Android Apps (expect tons of issues). I wonder if MS is able to focus on one freaking good idea.
Plan A is preferred, but this is a multi-pronged attack. If a dev isn't interested in plan A, there's Android porting. If they dont like that, there's iOS porting. If they dont like that, there's the new web apps extensions to make web apps behave like native.
In fact with android m can websites behave as apps and this thing can't be ported unless the browser supports routines of html5 or system routines triggered by web browser
Thats funny that wc cares but cb has made it very easy to find stuff like this for pb/bb10
This is so sad. People are so desperate for apps that they are willing to take scraps and hand me downs. Just when I started settling back in with windows phone and enjoying the os things like this make me so frustrated. There goes any hope of native windows app. We are the new blackberry.
We been the damn blackberry for years now. A phone without crucial apps including banking apps is a useless phone. When it comes to basics out of the box experience WP is great but once you download apps on IOS or Android, WP platform becomes a device for pure texting and calling.
My bank is there...Wells fargo.
My bank is there too, USAA.
Bank of America and Chase Bank are the 2 I used and now they are gone. Bought a second cheap Android phone so that I could do check deposits. This is BS! Everyone hates MS even the large corporations. The apps were already in the store and working. How much could it cost a large bank to update one single app?
the android bofa app works well using Project Astroria -- of course, the camera feature/function drops you out of the app.
The camera feature is the only thing that makes an app necessary over using the web interface. No Camera to allow deposits means not useable to me.
This sums up my 2012-2015 experience with Windows Phone. The side load projects are great news short term for WP users but long term just deter devs from learning, promoting and using WP themselves. Hello Android.
For once I totally agree with you. Sideloading the apks isn't like having full developer support for a native app. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
Great read. I like all articles Dan writes.
Yay, I can install Counter Strike Portable! But im guessing it will work with unity Android games?
At least some developers will be starting and testing their apps now. The sooner the better really.
...untill Google does their so called "security update" which accidentally/intentionally will make apks stop working on Windows Mobile 10 :)
Since the core of Android is open source and Google does have to justify the breakage, this would be seem as an anti-competitive attack and could get them in trouble.
well blocking youtube certainly didnt....what was the justification there ?
It was something to do with ad revenue I believe.
you referring to the WP youtube app? Google was well within their legal rights to do so, though it was incredibly douchey, Microsoft made the app by reverse engineering googles site, they didn't use the API's google allows for 3rd party devs.
The open source part of Android really has _nothing_ to do with what you see as Android on today's phones. That is mostly closed source Google components replacing the open source parts. The Open Source part of Android has been all but abandonned by Google and in no way represents anything close to what Google now delivers as their branch of Android OS. You might want to read THIS
Yes, they have all but abandoned AOSP, well, I think they have actually. But normal people don't know this. It was amazing when I first started off, but it isn't what it used to be as you said.
Thanks for that link. The biggest challenge spelled out is in creating a complete alternative built-in app experience for the Google App. Win10 plus ASOP solves that problem. There are still plenty of hooks Google could put in to prevent Android apps running without Google services, but Win10 + ASOP seems to be the most credible alternative Android platform to what Google provides.
I would not be surprised if MS eventually starts contributing to AOSP - providing APIs to MS services as an alternative to Google Play services. If done at a big enough scale, this could be a wedge that tears Android away from Google.
Thats not entirely true anymore were seeing less & less open api updates as time goes by android will be closed source
Most of the important parts of Android, from a developer's perspective, are already closed source.
Already have done that by deny their applications to a platform and have almost 89% market place even have the search engine which is the used in everywhere and that is not called abuse of market position?
and how would thatwill work? what about BB? or what about the million sites that offer APK (legal ones) or the ones that offer it through their sites like some 3rd party stores? Stop dreaming and thinking google can do anything you can already run Android apps on a desktop or tablet... and they did nothing about it because they couldnt
Exactly. It would also break backwards compatibility with all of the existing Android phones. This isn't a web or network API we are talking about. This is the APIs that make up the runtimes on the phones. MS has created a layer that mimics the Android runtimes. For Google to break this, they would have to break all of the existing Android phones as well.
thats good news then ! personally as a dev i really dont care...:)
They would not have to break Android phones. Simply update Google Play Services, anyone with an Android phone will get the update, and MS will have to build a whole new version of this service for Android developers to recompile apps over before new versions could work on Windows Phone.
Google play store apks do not work now as well.
Don't make it , it'll simply need a reset after installing the first wave of your wanted apps from android , for developers option will not work anymore
try to cancel dev unlock using wp8.1/wp10 sdk or do a hard reset. Also remember always turn off the developer switch before reboot/shutdown.
Yeah I know , a friend told me about that but after having the problem present
This is bad news all over. Project Astoria is the beginning of the end for Windows Phone. Developers won't bother making native apps and those that didn't bother porting until now won't be changing their methods any time soon. As long as users are willing to go out of their way to use their apps on other devices, there will never be an incentive to support Windows...
The counter argument is that they do make Windows 10 apps so they can run everywhere. It certainly can go either way, and I am not sure how I feel about it nor how devs will react in the long run.
i think microsoft should do like this a universal app ( google , windows . windows phone ) - then ios destroy
Aakash I know u r an avid Microsoft fan.I can see your tweets.Great for you but buddy sorry to confess that you have a terrible English.Sorry... Posted via the Windows Phone Central App for Android
Funny thing IOS only has a
Good market share in USA and a poor one on Europe and Microsoft care for conquest the American market which is a lost war, I am not fan of Windows phone anymore but I think is a contradiction, suppose with Windows 10 only universal apps are allowed, then if port an IOS/Android app only should run in arm processors and wouldn't run in x86/x64 computers, I'm right or wrong? or the porting too translate the code to computers too?
I actually need to use the deployment tool because there's only ONE practical HAM RADIO application in the store. I'm IMMEDIATELY installing Echolink and APRSDroid.
Note: Echolink is completely free (only requires you to launch the app and register your call sign), whereas APRS Droid is an open source app. [I added this because of people attempting to use the tool this for illicit purposes.]
Edit: crap. Can't launch the "For Developers" on the phone.... Guess its not happening now.
If your settings app crashes on clicking"for developers" try this. Conect your phone to pc and then open device registration tool and then unregister. Then for developers will work.
News flash: They tried incentives for years and was largely unsuccessful. This had to be done.
Yeah, you can't argue with that at all. They really have tried everything. Between the UWA model and Bridges, they have unleashed the big guns now. I don't think people have necessarily taken all of this in just how big a deal it is and how bold.
Applause to comment. After using iPhone and HTC M8 for a few weeks, I can proudly say I have missed my L1520. Yes, the limited apps and frequency of updates are a little annoying at times but nothing compares to a lot of the functions Windows phones have over the other two platforms plus I get a dose of both worlds. The Win10 update plus, fingers crossed, of developers porting apps and in the future native ones will start to grow the Windows future!
" They really have tried everything". Everything except what they needed to do: get their phones on all major carriers, including regularly launching cyclical flagships, ensure said phones are actually available for puchase in stores, and then actually advertise the phones. They have never consistently done any of those things. Even people who wanted to buy their phones often couldn't, and the rest of the world didn't even know the phones existed because they never encountered them in stores.
You think it was Microsoft's idea to only have exclusive phones? They didn't have a choice. They do not have the clout to get their phones on all the carriers. It is up to the carriers and they are not going to bother wasting shelf space with a phone that is basically guaranteed to not sell. Microsoft had flagship phones released every year for a while. Again, no one bought them. They barely broke 3% worldwide and that was with cheap phones. Flagships have had no successful with Windows Phone. They also advertised Windows Phone heavily when it was released. I remember seeing the ads on TV non stop. If I recall, they spent over 500 million in advertising just for the launch. Heavy advertising didn't get them anywhere. It doesn't really matter what Microsoft does unless they scrap Windows Phone and start with something new. The tile interface has failed on Windows Phone and now Windows as well. It is time for something new. Their current offering is lacking to say the least, especially when compared to the competition. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
Microsoft incentives were oriented maily to students: free phones, points to have xboxes etc, and a bad program called AppCampus, nothing really good to attract companies and professional devs. Best move to attract devs is make them in the condition to earn money developing wp apps. As WP market is low, ask less taxes, not 30% as google, they have 80%...
And give money/funds to premium devs who reach xxxx downloads, Tesla S (not an Xbox!!!), and trips to Redmond, dinners with Satya or Bill Gates, best of all buy apps from "hero" devs, so every dev knows it s a possibility that can happen to him too, and bloggers will do the rest.
It s not difficult to attract devs !!!
The SDK and the tools are the best in the planet, so the support, we only lack a way to monetize and more consideration. Now opening the doors to our enemies is an insult (for a developer fighting here for 4 years...) :(
What kept devs on wp was passion, without that, math says it s better to develop on ios/android and eventually port to wp...
Hi Venetasoft. You are a long time developer and supporter of Windows phone. I'm sympathetic to your situation ; but I think you guys have head start in WP development, you can even do universal apps ,which ported Android apps can't (im assuming they run only on WP). This situation is like Wal-Mart coming up in an area with a lot of mom n pop stores. Hopefully you guys can find better ways to support WP .
I am with you Daniel, but the big guns are more like squirt guns at this point. The only thing people notice is how many they just let go from that division, so the rational is that it must be over.
As I understand it, the only incentives I have heard of were very generic. An incentive per app, regardless of quality. That increased the number of apps, in the store, which was a good thing. (For many consumers the number of apps is important; they do not take quality, functionality, duplication into account when evaluating iOs vs Android vs WP.) Here are a couple of better incentives: Buy a handful of high profile social apps, whatever the cost.
I do not think any developer, no matter how much they hate MS, is beyond being bought out by MS.
(Yes, the exception is YouTube. Google is too big too buy.) It is incomprehensible to me that MS did not offer to pay for or develop apps for Band of America and Chase. The lack of these apps is bad, but both banks discontinued functional apps and pulled them from the store. Bank of America pulled the Windows 8.1 version as well.
The lack of action by MS may be due to waiting for Windows 10 Mobil (W10m). MS silence regarding this may be due to legal considerations.
No that's not THIS IS THE BEGGINING OF A RISE, users don't care if apps are specifically developed for windows or not , users care of the app Is good , just that , devs just develop for other platforms and then port it, they will be making more money within just a very short time porting apps , that will bring ALOT OF DEVS , then windows phone / 10 mobile will have a big market share (in the future) , then you can say the phrase "native"
Think about it
Yeah this what started the steep decline with bb aswell
BB was nearly dead BEFORE they launched their latest OS that supported Android APIs. The Android compatibility really didn't make a difference either way. There can't be a "steap decline" when you are already near the bottom. BB also doesn't have a full ecosystem like MS does. There is still plenty of incintive to target W10 Mobile through universal apps since it also targets Windows and Xbox (both of which have very large user bases). BB didn't have that.
Honestly, it might be a good way to divide and conquer. To those developers that want to target Windows 10 Universal apps, it's good for the phone... For developers that just want to easily target additional customers without much work, project Astoria will do.
Right now, the most important thing is getting people to buy Windows Phones. So far, the lack of apps has prevented that. For the vast majority of good native Windows Phone app developers, this has meant that they aren't earning much, if anything. MS has excellent development tools, so if that's the reason that native devs want to make apps for WP, then that isn't going to change. Also consider piracy. It's rampant with Android apps.
Except universal apps can be ran in Windows 10 as well from the store. You know, that massively growing install base?
Windows 8 had a huge install base too, but people don't use apps on Windows so it doesn't matter. Getting its users to change habits and use apps is going to be tough for Microsoft. A full browser is a fine experience, no need to change routine. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
From Win 8 to now 10 on my desktop, I still don't see the need for apps either. It's actually pretty stupid. Tablets need apps, phones need apps, desktops do not. Well, I digress, on a touchscreen PC it might be nice.
The average Win7 or Win8 user does not know about WP apps or have easy access to them. The Windows App store and Windows Phone app store are separate. If you do not have a windows phone there is no way to know what you are missing. With universal apps and a common store, this will change. I agree that web/browser id often OK. There are times that an app or gadget/widget is better. It is premature to write off universal apps. If universal apps are popular with desktop users, it could boost Windows Phone.
Already developers don't bother making native apps, this has been the case since WP7, how many more years do we wait for parity? I don't see an alternative myself, my sister left WP for Android because the airline she works for didn't have a company app for WP. It just takes one important app to someone to have them jump ship or not use WP at all. Besides that the quality of apps on WP and W8 for that matter, if available, are sub par to those on Android and iOS. Something has to be done or WP will truly be dead.
As a Windows Phone user I don't feel I have any stake in the success of Windows Phone as a platform for developers. Anything that helps to build market share for Windows Mobile 10 and brings more apps (regardless of how they were originally developed) is very good news for me.
That's what you think. Me no think same. If it were true, sideloading would have been made difficult on Android. I really don't give a quarter ass if Android and Google die today. Indeed, I would be happier than Steve Jobs.
Agreed Emi
Also, why this now? What happened to universal apps vision? With this, why would they bother making universal app now? Does ms have no faith in universal apps already?
Did I miss something or did you?? I'm sure somewhere in this article Dan stated that only native apps can be truly universal and run on all MS platforms? That right there will be incentive enough for devs to make native apps.
In a marked flooded with android apps, why should one start writing a native windows app? I don't see how this will not kill native app development.
Integration with Cortana, compatibility with Continuum, access to entire Windows 10 user base?
Its the beginning of windows mobile rising
No, this is mostly for developers who don't want to develop anything for Windows Phone like google or snapchat... other developers will want their apps to run even on xbox, like reddit app. anyway who cares? if you can run an app, why does it matter if it runs natively or not? I would rather have many apps even if it's an apk than not having anything for few developers that are going to get "angry"
You'd rather settle for less instead of fighting for innovation.
It's a tradeoff. - Look long term with this... Would you rather have W10M die in the long run due to continuous absent marketshare ---due to non-existent apps? -or Would you rather have apps that may -or may not run natively on W10M, thus possibly creating more marketshare due to the number of users coming over to the platform due to those apps being there? But in the end...the difference in native and non-native apps in this scenario is pretty irrelevant. The stability and coherence of the app will still have better functionality than BB's emulator scenario. -Since the W10M foundation has the actual Android sublayer to run these apps outside of an emulated environment.
It's a hell of a lot easier to port an app through Astoria then spend a day or two tweaking it than to spend months building it from the ground up. Plus it creates a lot more opportunities to then expand on what they have and bring it to desktop and beyond. What would have been a whole lot of work now becomes a small project for most developers.
From my view I see MS rising in a long run; It may loose some native WP developers but it would gain a lot more cross platform developers due to the easiness of porting apps to windows; the developers who would like to support our platform or if interested he may even recode his apps according to the use of windows users which will make the app look more native to windows than having android feel to it
I wont side load. But I just want a dev to bring an app that lets me control my dslr camera like those of android and ios. Thats even an app I'd pay for.
same here ... Cameras and also wireless printer apps.
Yep... Bring us the Canon EOS remote app PLEASE!!!!.... Such a pain when I travelled overseas that I couldn't use the wifi fun too to import images from my Canon 6D and instead had to import to my wifes Android device and then email the images to myself. There is ZERO reason for Nikon and Canon not to port their apps over to Windows now. We have paid good money to use their equipment and we shouldn't be shoe horned just because of the platform we use!
Yep... Bring us the Canon EOS remote app PLEASE!!!!.... Such a pain when I travelled overseas that I couldn't use the wifi function to import images from my Canon 6D and instead had to import to my wifes Android device and then email the images to myself. There is ZERO reason for Nikon and Canon not to port their apps over to Windows now. We have paid good money to use their equipment and we shouldn't be shoe horned just because of the platform we use!
Ohhh I thought it was to send the photos the other way ;)
Hey amigo! First of all: I 100% agree with you. We paid such a bunch of money for their product so we deserve this app! And I have some news about that: The application loads and runs now on Windows! The problem is: You can't use it yet to connect your camera. The process is a bit tricky and uses settings that doesn't work on windowsphone for the moent. I'll try to fix that and if I do it well, I'll send you a picture :)
Correct me if I'm wrong but the vast vast majority of the apps that people want to have on Windows Phone, on Android, use Google Play Services for stuff like location etc, right? As such, there's little point in rushing in to pirate Android apps into Windows Phones, people, as most of the ones you want, won't work.
But won't apps from the amazon store work just fine ?
Not necessarily. The Amazon store apps may depend on Amazons' version of Google's APIs for things like location services, maps plugins, etc. So in the case that the app ties in to Amazon, unless MS has that built into this service, they won't work. But I'm not really sure as to what Astoria does at this point so I don't know if it's capable of that.
twitter , instagram , snapchat , facebook , ( even google youtube works excellent - install java then gmaps.exe cracker to remove permission from apk , then install )
Thank you!
Snapchat actually worked, but when i login it says verifying your device which displays at the bottom and after some time the support link comes up :3 I've tried the gmaps cracker, did it worked for you?
For now can you trick snap chat into thinking you have an android device?
Can you give me instructions.
Right. Devs doing it properly can replace those services with Microsoft ones. People pirating apps deserve whatever may come their way tbh.
true
Cry me a river Nokia man. BTW, greetings from Espoo! Google will die a painful death.
Correct. Without support for Google Play there's almost no point - the only apps you'll be able to side load are the most trivial of apps. Nothing with in-app purchases or that uses services like location will work.
The point of the tool is to allow developers to easily port their existing app to WP without a complete rewrite. They can simply replace the call to Google's services for Microsoft's ones. It's not designed to allow the end user to sideload any app they wish, even though it's a nice side effect.
Large portion of apps will still work. For example games without in-app purchases. You will loose some GPlay stuff (such as achievements), but that is hardly game-breaking. Also note that apps from Amazon Appstore does not use GPlay at all, but Amazon game services.
Also, there are already patches to remove GPlay services support from APK files.
Wait what? DJCBS actually began his sentence with "correct me if I am wrong"?? Miracles do happen!
Microsoft really had no choice but to do this in order for WM to survive.
When I read about it on WMPU, I did not find it much amusing. Don't care. Won't use this method. Waiting for developers to brings their apps on WP officially. And also don't have much time to waste in that long process.
This is a means for developers to officially bring their apps to WP. It just allows them to do that without having to dedicate the same amount of work for a market that is 4% the size of the Google userbase. I think it's a great idea on Microsoft's part to do this, and I really hope that some of my favorite Android and iOS developers take advantage of it, although there are a lot of WP apps I've discovered that I will continue using.
It's not a friendly process, also not legal technically. I'll wait for dev do that and publish on Store.
Tell that to bb users cb is looking the other way
How is it not legal? Unless you pirate a paid app, there's nothing illegal about running any free app on the platform of your choice. You can already sideload Android apps on Blackberry 10 phones, or on PC with Bluestacks. There's nothing illegal about that. However you get no support from the developers until they publish their apps themselves using this bridge.
Interesting... really don't know what to make of this... I guess only time will tell if this is the right direction for Microsoft.
For devs , I suggest making IOS apps then port them. , users really don't care if this is natively or not for windows , users care about an app being good and has all the features from other platforms , I say windows devs start making apps for IOS , its way better now , and you can port the app to windows phone and get paid twice from apple and microsoft
Without breaking a sweat
The time has come to rule ! By the end of next year things will change so much !
Will ported iOS apps work on both desktop and mobile? Because android apps is only on mobile (I really don't know why).
I believe it will, because Project Islandwood is actually about expanding the Microsoft dev environment for Windows, Visual Studio, to support Objective C (the odd version of the C language that ONLY Apple use), so you can build native apps with Objective C. You have to have Visual Studio installed, and then the Islandwood tools are pointed at an XCode project file and "read" it, bringing in the relevant parts into a new Visual Studio project. At that point though, you have "forked" the codebase and you have two different development projects to maintain. But it's way better than coding it from scratch. So with Islandwood, you would be coding up a truly native Windows app, but just using a lot of code reuse from the XCode development environment you use already for your iOS app. Since for most big app devs the iOS platform is their primary platform (even though iOS has smaller market share, there's little or no piracy, and iOS owners tend to be affullent - they have to be to afford Apples prices - so spend more on apps than Android owners), Islandwood is a far more important project than Astoria. Plus, Windows folks will get truly native apps because of it.
What happen if I install a launcher apk/
lol
It won't work
It'll turn your live tiles into widgets lol..
Try Nova and post back with how it works. .. Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
Microsoft Windows Connect Server for Project A Debugging - official internal lines
(c) Copyright 2014-2015 Microsoft Corporation
It's a bummer that everything leaks these days. Can't trust anybody. I saw the thread on the forums last night, I think it said the leak was from China (surprise, surprise). The device leak photos always come from there too. At least we occasionally get cool surprises such as the band and hololens.
After 3 hours of continous work, in my old Lumia 925......
I've sucessfully port "soundcloud" app....
And Trust me it's work well.
But soon after I end up with hard reset.
(great powers comes with great responsibility)
the amazing spiderman 2
Why did you hard reset? Conscience or error?
Could you please warn us about consequences?
Although there are reasons for Windows devs to feel the pinch, its not all that bad from a consume endpoint. Also, from what I understand, even if you directly install the APK, it might not fully support native Windows functions as they still need to be coded for and this is where Windows devs can chip in and make the porting much more hassel free. A dev having knowledge of .NET and C# will obviously be at an advantage when it comes to development from concept to reality. Its a double edged sword neverthless. The coming days will tell how this pans out. Microsoft would be more than happy to get 'free' telemetry even prior to officially launching Astoria. Personally, I would support Windows devs to the core but we also need to fill the app-gap.
Also I think the iOS bridge much reliable, and can target desktop, phone, tablet.
coming soon - ios tool also leaking from china . you can install ios apps with sideload with next build . already working great on build 10240 lumia
I doesn't matter if it leaks, you can't put objective-c code on Windows and expect that works. I'm looking forward to iOS bridge so Devs start ro port, not something ilegal. I always avoided Android/Google world because of that, always too not-cool thing.
so you have 10240 build on your phone ??
A big say...
I'm glad that this is finally here. Material Design on Windows Phone! Yay.
This is EXACTLY what I want Astoria to do. This move will bolster the app catalog tremendously and actually grab android developers' attention. MS had to, I repeat HAD TO, make it as easy as possible for devs to get their app into MS's ecosystem or else it was a non-starter. Now we can get the banking, entertainment and social apps we want because companies don't have to hire additional staff.
As long as iOS or Android has a bigger market share, it makes more sense to develop natively for those platforms and then port to Windows. If Windows market share ever got bigger than either of those two it would make more sense to develop for Windows natively. I'm not too worried about it either way. The windows app store will grow and windows market share will increase.
Welcome to the dilemma BlackBerry is in. Google won't allow their libraries to work on systems that don't meet certain criteria - which essentially eliminate any "Open Source Android" alternative.
If that happens then IOS porting tool is here
Yeah, iOS tool is way more important seeing how that's still considered the primary platform.
No ur missing the point of the bridge tools. The tools provides a bridge for devs to exchange all their google play services for matching services on Microsofts side. Google cant do anything about it once the dev exchanges their API calls for Microsoft's. If the app tries to stay using google play services then perhaps it faces the issues you mention
I don't give a damm how you feel Android developers. I very much welcome everything that will kill both you and your master Google. Mobilism.org, here I come.
Lol that's really evil , remember this isn't official and will be gone soon with any build , they might not port their apps to be officially in the store , this method will be gone for good very soon officials are way better
Well, I want to be evil to Google the stupid pretender of don't be evil. A world without Google is a better world.
There's a lot that can be said against Google, but there is quite a lot that can be said for them as well.
Two wrongs don't make right. There are plenty of reasons to dislike Google, but no reason to slight third party developers, that won't really hurt Google anyway. That'll just push developers deeper into Google's hold.
Microsoft has to stoop low to allow the competition's apps to work. They couldn't make deals or persuade the other companies.
Seeing Android anything in my OS is an insult, if I want anything Android, I would get an Android phone.
Why would I buy an Android if I so much Android to die painfully?
No the devs never came to WM.
Why would you see android apps on your phone, unless you download them? They wont come pre-installed lol
This isn't stooping. This is Microsoft reaching new levels of openness. Microsoft is working harder than Google, and definitely Apple, to make their products open and accessible to anyone. While Google works to close off their services and tighten their grip on developers and manufactures, and Apple work to capture users in their services and increase profit margin, Microsoft is becoming more open. I hope these work well and developers and users will see there is a company that is open and not trying to tie them in.
As it turns out, I still think that Universal Windows Apps will be only for Windows developers fans. For the rest, when they care about, will be only ported apps. Everyone remember Put People First?? Now will be Put Ported First...
It seems to me MS has already lost faith in universal apps. Should've given it a chance first imo
Do they really have a choice to give it time? I think it's great that they're giving developers so many options.
well, microsoft doesnt really have time to see what happens, they need to get WP more apps faster rather than later.
Yes, the should have tried. If universal apps would have failed, they still could have pulled the gun. But now they are putting the whole universal apps concept at risk. I don't think that this is a good idea...
Universal apps isn't new, nor is it the answer to get developers who have already spent thousands on developing iOS/Google apps that are powerful and profitable. At that point you don't need to make a huge investment to get your app which was designed for mobile onto a platform where no one wants it. Microsoft knows that, as do developers. This gives devs an easy way to reach WP users, and will give users more reliable, powerful apps with (hopefully) more consistent updates. And I think it will allow people to see how great some of the existing WP apps are when compared head-to-head against iOS and Android apps.
APKs are the new universal apps.
Universal app was never going to bring more apps to windows mobile. How many of the needed apps are used on pcs and xbox? Ms is wise by approaching the issue of no apps from all directions. There are various kinds of options now. Only a developer that has serious sentiments against Microsoft will refuse to publish his app
But only a dev that has lots of love for MS will build a native app for WP when there is so strong competition from IOS and android bridges on this very small platform. I don't see how that is going to be good for the platform.
consumer who are staying way from windows bec of app gap are going to give a try...dev who are staying away from windows mobile bec of less consumers are going to make their apps available as microsoft making their task easier...i mean at start it was deadlock situation now microsoft preventing deadlock.for native app dev they can make their apps universal and stay way ahead of ported dev
Like Snapchat ;)
Will Android apps work in continuum mode for phone? How about on future W10M tablets? Just curious...
Of course they will not work in continuum mode for phone. They will work on W10M tablets.
What makes you so sure they won't work in continuum? Have they actually stated that somewhere? There's plenty of Android apps that work in landscape orientation, or were designed that way in the first place (tablet, Amazon FireTV apps for example). Android supports keyboard and mouse, therefore it's not a huge stretch to imagine those compatible apps running in continuum... Unless of course MS has specifically stated that they will restrict it?
Lots of Android apps for phones don't scale to tablets.
they cant be universal apps and i think only universal app work in continuum
Continuum is just the idea that if you plug in a keyboard, the on-screen keyboard goes away. Or other adjustments for other hardware. It won't make apps any different, other than scaling blowing them up onto a monitor, unless the app is specifically designed for it. If the app will change format with a mouse plugged in, or add a second pane when connected to a larger display, that's continuum. Android apps are not likely programmed for that.
small doubth please clarity 1) is this same like blackberry allowing to install apk? 2) does dev want to change google services to microsoft services? 3) does the apk which is ported to windows mobile support universal app? 4) does these apps work same like windows native app? i mean smooth/fluid?
What this article refers to is just directly sideloading APKs which means there will be some Google Play features and notification services which wont work with Windows. Also, this sideloading doesn't enable 'universality' just yet. For an app to be universal, it needs to be made into a native Windows Universal app. One of the aims of Astoria is to make this porting easier so that you can re-use your Android code but need to still be adept with C# to fully leverage Windows services and implement Microsoft alternatives of Google Play services. Summing up, when you sideload, your mileage may vary with respect to performance of the app. When you port and recompile the app however, you can expect a native Windows performance.
There's no "port and recompile" if I understand correctly. Packages of apps ported from other platforms will be appx with some customization files, but the original apk file will be right inside the package.
For Android, yes. But iOS apps will go from source to compilation of Obj-C and/or Swift. Native performance, that is. No emulation. Candy Crush Saga is an iOS code app that runs natively compiled for Windows Phone, and I hope more popular games join in from iOS as soon as possible, which is probably when the first Win10 Mobile "retail" version is ready.
Thank you :) thats good for windows native dev(no universal) i think from now on we are going to use apps with same ui from android that sad...trick to lure dev hope it goes well and all dev who are going to port their apps start working on universal apps with in months :)
1) almost. Developers will add compatibility with new icons, new services, etc. especially for the Windows version
2) there will be an additional layer which translates Google services to Microsoft services. With services I mean things like WNS (notifications)
3) no
4) at the moment the preview project on a preview operating system, apps are a bit laggy but responsive
I have always been an android fan over IOS and windows phone. However a strange thing happened to me. All my PC,s are now happily running win10 so I thought I would look at a windows phone with a view to upgrading it to win10 when available, First thing I discovered was , how cheap windows phones are. I bought a Lumia 640 for 150 euros. Its spec is similar to my S3 Neo. The second thing i discovered was how easy it was to use, and fast. No lag anywhere even on graphics intensive game. Within a week of owning my first windows phone I had given my S3 away. I absolutley love windows phone, all the apps I need are available , even my EZcast dongle has an app. There are perfectly good third Party YouTube Apps and the mapping GPS system is one of the best I have ever used. Windows phone has the winning formula, Price Quality and ease of use. 90% of android apps are junk anyway. I believe the important apps should be native dont pollute the slick windows 10 ecosystem with thousands of crap apps. A small collection of quality apps is better in my opinion. There are only a few apps missing for the average user. Windows 10 is a revolution and the Devs will want a piece of the action. People who say desktop users don't use apps do not understand windows 10. This was true in windows 8 but in windows 10 the universal apps and the desktop apps merge together seamlessly. Microsoft edge is a universal APP.
same goes with me but little bit different i was diehard nokia fan but at the time of buying my new smartphone nokia going with windows which is underdog os at that time so went with S3 i never regret .After 2yrs i rooted my mobile from then never saw back used different kind of roms thanks to xda dev.i change my smartphone every 5yrs so iam going to buy windows this time bec i won lumia 730 in giveaway form microsoft i loved fulidity of os used 2months then gave it to my mom and i bought lumia 1020 presented to dad now waiting to buy new smartphone Q3 2016 hope i get rumoured surface mobile this time..
Man those android apps look ugly -> snapchat, twitter. Ported on wp I only see the superiority of w10 design. I hope developers realize the difference and make real w10 store apps.
Just saw a video on how to do it.
Damn easy. People might soon be unsure if they are using an android device or a windows phone.
Well it isn't getting rid of the live tiles etc so will definitely still look like Windows Phone.
If you have a Windows logo at the bottom that may be a big clue.
I tried out this tool and it workes pretty well and apps are hit or miss with how they work. Every app tried worked to some degree. Facebook was able to tie into location services but my bank app crashed when tryng to do a remote deposit. It's a promissing start.
Rome was not built in a day. It will improve hopefully.
*Project Islewood for iOS
This is great news. The best way to look at it is Windows is the only universal platform where other platform can port or side load without any downsides (in the future, when Android and iOS bridges are finalised). That means neither of the other platforms will have a unique app and developers can make either iOS or Android and quickly port Universal Windows apps for very little extra effort.
It's pretty mindblowing that any Android app can run on Windows 10 Mobile without modification. The real issue will arise if Microsoft manages to make Android apps run as smoothly on Windows 10 as they do on Android. Then devs will indeed have little incentive to make a native app if they only target phones and small tablets. Unfortunately it looks like we have to choose between up-to-date ported apps and less full-featured native apps.
Those are apps installed from the Store, not sideloaded.
Oh, I stand corrected then.
If this is done right, and soon, then maybe I'll stick with windows phone. Otherwise there's nothing stopping me from buying an Android in the near future.
Welcome UI/UX inconsistency
Lol. If you want to talk UI/UX inconsistency. Just look at the Android Groove Music app and compare it to the W10M one. Note: The Android app looks like it should be on W10M.
Ehm... why should I? Different platforms means different UI and UX and that's fine. But you can't put them all together. The risk is that Windows will become a mix of experiences. Windows guidelines + Android guidelines + iOS guidelines. That's inconsistency. So I don't really understand your comment ;)
What he's saying is that many Android apps look more like Windows apps than many Microsoft apps do. Look at Safari in iOS 9 too, if you want to see an app that does a great job of mimicking Windows UI design.
WP devs should ignore this, I'm very unlikely to ever install android apps on my phone and I will ALWAYS prefer a native WP app and I'm sure I'm not the only one with this stance, so yes bother with making WP apps cause this frenzy over apps means nothing to me
I think that pretty much goes for almost everyone here.
So you'll never download ported Android apps? I get the feeling you'll be missing out on a lot of things.
I agree. Unless you are a phone developer, why would you know how to sideload apps or install the dev tools to be able to do this.
What if Rudy made his apps available on Android, would you boycott him over some petty fanboyism? I personally will use any good app I like. If it works well for something I need, that's what apps are for. If it was originally coded in .Net or some other language doesn't matter, as long is it works well and has good support.
Kudos to WC for taking a principled stand on not encouraging illegal sideloading.
Thanks. We had a lot of internal discussion on how to run this story. Ignoring it is not an option, but neither was providing instructions and making it easy either. Tough situation.
Yup I read this article on another site (yeah that one!). Was waiting patiently for the WPC version which I find more credible. I as a developer would say I'm okay with Project Islandwood which involves conversion of binary to Windows. The android subsystem and now this SIDELOADING(!). MS should plug sideloading of apk atleast. It'll bring more harm than good.
At least the illegal game apk sites will get a lot of traffic now thanks to this story.
What do you mean ' stealing android apps' Microsoft will not make such a feature if Google will make apps for windows phone , but they don't.
I'm kind of disappointed in this. It's a great concept, but that its official release (along with the iOS one) is going to take so long to actually make it to W10M is really bad. They're doing it again where they reboot the OS, half-ass the support, and then get features added once any momentum from the launch is dead or dying. These tools shoudl have been ready for the W10M launch, and now we're getting "sometime in 2016," as an answer? Yeah, it'll be great when people see W10M still lacks apps at launch, and then it'll be even greater when some mid- or late-2016 release comes after the masses have soured on the platform.
This is my feeling too. Each time they go back to the drawing board and rush it to the market half baked. I did hope they wouldn't do it with W10 but it seems that way.
Just wondering if Microsoft has official launches for its products in China?
This is a good way for a developer to test the wp waters in a reasonably easy way. If they feel they have enough support from WP users, then maybe they will make a universal app.
Interesting notion. Would that mean we can run Kodi (formerly known as XBMC) on for example a Lumia 930?
Not good for a native WP dev, not good at all... Maybe this move (if officially confirmed) will help to sell more phones, but WP devs would suffer for unfair competition from free/cracked android apps (and free always beats paid even if low quality and cracked). If devs abandon wp, in the long term WP will be an android emulator, so why buy a WP..?
I don't know honestly.... Lets wait for an official Microsoft declaration about this leak... They ever said to us the portings would need a recompilation (not so "automatic" and open..)
Hey brother firstly thanks for your 8 apps to this tiny store... And don't bother my brother... You can make universal apps which can run also in holo lens which I believe after 3-5 years could be huge success of they will work as they have shown so far.... So be more enthusiastic and be always + my brother
Yep. I understand your concern. Competition for you and many others (incl me) is going to increased exponentially. But with this sideloading, it's just going to give Android devs an unfair advantage on our platform, given how widespread apks are available on internet. Microsoft should atleast prevent apk sideloading. That's the least they should be doing in our favor.
completely agree
Sideloading is not the issue here. This sideloading thing is temporary, and the result of a leak in China. When MS releases this tool, Android developers who port will be in the store to compete under the same rules as you all. Your apps can compete with theirs directly so users can see your apps strengths. For people who want to use pirated apps on their phones, Android has always been the platform for that.
As a WP fan and a Jnr Dev (I have only 8 apps with less than 10,000 downloads) I personally think this is a great move. I'll always love the fluid beauty of native apps but I welcome our .apk cousins - there's plenty of room for all. Besides WP is a lot more than native apps, the OS itself is more intuitively laid out, live tiles makes it by far the most useful and attractive OS out there and don't even get me started on the hardware & design. Project Astoria in conjunction with Windows 10 will (I hope) entice many millions of users over to WP and for Developers Windows 10 & universal apps also gives them a far greater market than they ever had on WP alone. My one reservation is that a tiny piece of me can't help but feel we're losing a part of our WP identity... I dare say I'll get over that pretty quickly tho.
As a small software house company with 3 million downloads living developing WP apps only, paying 30% to Microsoft as Google/Apple but with a 3% market share,
I fear it will now more convenient to develop on Android first, then use the tool. So no wp UI optimization, no Universal, no more love :(
I feel you but people will still prefer native apps and the rising tide will benefit everyone in WM camp in the long run.
This brings up a question i was wondering, if devs take this route, wouldn't they have to pay both google and Microsoft those percentages? If they choose to focus on android first then turn that app to universal apps through the bridge.
Many APKs on Project Astoria already now are running more fluid than their Windows Phone counterparts. For example the WhatsApp APK is much faster than the native WP WhatsApp version. Same for the Facebook app. Also APKs don't suffer from the "Loading/Resuming" problem like native Windows Phone apps. So developing for Android first and then just releasing the APK for WIndows Phone actually benefits WP users as they get a more fluid experience than with native apps.
That would only be the case if the apps are better designed for Android. In the case of the Facebook WP app, that is a really shoddy app. Not sure when the last real update was, but half of my notifications in the app don't lead anywhere, push notifications mostly just take me to the home screen. The app is just terrible overall. So if the iOS or Android version got ported that would be a huge upgrade.
Don't worry about offending MS. You can be sure it was leaked on purpose.
I feel quite confident that it wasn't, actually.
Kudos, Windows Central... Kudos.
As an user and developer I'm excited to see that something big is changing. Don't care if MS will be successful, anything is better than this stalled situation we had till today.
Hey guys, everyone go steal apps! Party........... On a serious note it will be interesting to see if Microsoft allows devs to upload their APKs to the Microsoft store or use the Amazon store or something.
Just because an .apk can be extracted doesn't mean it's illegal or stolen. I own tons of Android apps. Proudly bought them all. I can easily extract said .apk from my rooted Nexus 6 to test out with this converter from Microsoft on my 1520). Once all of this plays out, I will re buy the apps on WP. Free user testing. I wont even bill Microsoft for my time and effort. If people are the pirate type, it is what it is. This news doesn't change their shady ways.
Terms of Service does not ever give you permission to do what you wish just because you bought an app on Android.
Ah well. Humans will alwyas tinker. Guess I feel better for not using shady warez .apk mirrors that are all over everywhere. You and I speed at times too, and that's not ok. Oh well.
But the shady warez apk sites are exactly where everyone is going to go.
I Don't see this move as a bad thing, they had 4 years to make great apps and help the system growth, however nothing happened. I think that democracy and captalism should rule and developers should stop crying, if they want protection or whatever go to Cuba or Brazil !! They still can do windows apps as universal.
I'll continue to do what the people paying for development want. Most likely some ports, some UWP apps. It also depends a lot on the tools, since I'm not in the closed preview/beta, I have no idea how well they work yet.
Blackberry all over again with this. I run android apps on my blackberry daily. Most run pretty well but there is some lagginess to a few of them. Nothing beats native. I just wish it was possible for app devs to easily port them to all 4 platforms.
I don't think you understand what BB is using to run those apps vs W10M... In simple terms...BB has an emulator that is running those apps. -While as MS built an Android sublayer into the WM foundation that has the ability for the app ported from Astoria to run based off this sublayer. The difference in native vs non-native in this scenario would be negligble ...in terms of usability and stability.
Considering how slow and laggy Androids inner workings make these apps, I think they'll be better on W10 than Android, most likely.
Take note, that the purpose of this is to easily take existing Android apps and give them the fit and finish of Windows 10. It's to maximize code reuse so you don't have to start from the ground up and so you can absolutely minimize time to market. It it not meant to be a simple port, as many are worried about or describing here. The main logic behind the code is going to be about the same for all the platforms, sans APIs and UI/UX that are specific to each platform. This is where you plugin the APIs available on the Windows platform i.e. Maps, Cortana. The point of all this is to make it as easy as possible on the developers to bring the work they already have to Windows 10. No other company has made it this easy to bring another platform's app to another platform.
Yup, it's mindboggling what MS is bringing here. Amazing software engineering.
Oh it's mindbottling alright. It's like my brain is stuck in a bottle.
What about games
why is this bad news for windows developers? lazy devs can simply port android apps. if some want more unique apps, they should da a gerat universal app, that run on all windows systems. win win also i like the idea of screwing over adroid only developers :D
The bad news is this: We have invested lots and lots of time and work into the small but uniuque WP platform. Now suddenly, flood gates will be opened and hundred thousands of cheap android apps will be flooding the WP market. Competition goes up extremely. Those android devs get their apps into WP market basically for free, thanks to MS new technology. We windows devs don't get our app into any other market for free. So this is a quite unfair and drastic change of our situation. Android devs get their apps into a new market for free, while we don't get our apps into any new market. Plus, android apps take away our market share of course. The WP market itself is very small. But at least, competition is not so tough, so it is possible to get at least a bit out of it. Now if these masses of andriod apps flood this small market, there is barely anything to get. We will be left with close to nothing. Now why should anyone start writing a new app natively for the windows platform? Does not make much sense anymore. No more money to earn in that small market soon to be flooded with android clones. So we'd be better off writing a new app for android. Then if it is successful, we could still move it over to WP at some point via the emulation layer. But then it will be a native android app, and on WP it will only be emulated. Android will be first priority and WP will be nice to have. I wouldn't be surprised if many native windows devs will leave the plaform and wander off to android or ios. This will mean less windows apps developed, active WP apps being shut down. You will have more apps in the WP store but only android apps and nothing native. WP could become a cheap copy of Android, losing it's uniqueness.
This argument is flawed. By writing a WP app and moving it to a universal windows app, you get a fast growing market. Astoria apps do not work on Xbox, windows 10, or iot devices...
There are a lot of apps that only really make sense on a phone. Guess why the WP store has a lot more apps than the Windows (PC) store, even though on the PC the user base is a lot bigger. Sure, for some apps this is an argument to go universal. But for apps that are primarily phone apps, I do not see much arguments for starting a new app as native windows app. Even the MS development tools include Andriod SDK and emulator now, plus soon the bridge Android -> WP. So why start a phone app as native WP if you have to compete with the 10x size of android competition? You can only survive the 10x android competition if you are in the 10x android market size. But you cannot survive if you have all the competition but only the tiny market that is WP.
No problem man, just take your app and go. bye bye!!!
I am sure a lot of devs will do exactly that. Or at least they will think twice before starting their next app as WP native app. If you like that thought, well, good for you.
I don't see why we can't decompile the snapchat APK and modify it so it works in Astoria...
BB users already can
BB is running an emulator. That's really quite different than what's going on with Astoria. You'll probably just have to wait until Islandwood is done, then if they want to, Snapchat will convert their code to WP.
I feel like Microsoft had to try something like this if they plan on staying in the mobile game. People have no reason to buy a wp if that can't provide what ios and android can.
The good news is that the Android apps running within Astoria don't suffer from "Resuming/Loading". So Android apps already now have an speed advantage over their native WP counterparts. Seems like Android apps will be the true universal apps for Windows 10 Mobile.
You obviously don't know what the term "Universal App" means
Does that mean that we can download an app from like 1mobile market or directly from internet?
Very interesting. It's something Android users have done for a while to get free apps and I imagine there's a lot more of them than WP users. Not right of course since it's kind of illegal but there will be a lot of people happy with this. Likely me included.
This is just a temporary testing phase and will NOT be how most people will run Android and iOS originated apps. Consumers will get them from the Store and devs will get paid.
Easy to locate. Thanks for the heads up to go find it WC!
Give me the links? Pls!
I don't see why we can't decompile the snapchat APK and modify it so it works in Astoria...
i would be so great to show evan spiegel some pictures of snapshat running on winodws and say "thanks for nothing"
don't understand why I can't go into Macy's and just take the sweater without paying.....
at least macy's let you buy a sweater.
if you want to make that apple - orange comparison: macy's tells you, no sweater for your, because you'r to big or small. and it's not worth to make one for people like you. now you took pictures about the design and material, go home and make the sweater in your own size. you do not steal the sweater. like you are not stealing the android app. you just "illegally" use the desing or code.
It is sad to hear the leak. Anyway this is how this modern world works. We just have to adjust with it.
I shouldn't be surprised that Snapchat would be bigoted against Amazon devices and anything that used AOSP as well.
I'm not a dev but if I was I would be glad to port my app. Mo users, Mo money, No problems. :D
"As it turns out, the tools are very powerful with the only limitation being the inability to run Google Play apps, which is in many ways trivial" Really? As a dev, I don't think this is trivial at all. In fact, I think this is why Astoria will fail.
i don't think you get the point
It's trivial because, in the final version, devs will have an opportunity to remove Google Play services and tie into Microsoft's to replace them, making the limitation moot. Oh, it sucks for those who are pirating, as it is more tricky, but that was not my concern here.
Wow, when its about Windows it's "inovating, giving powa to the people" but when its about Android or IOS it's "pirating".
Developers should not be mad. They should work harder. We all know that a bunch of them work on a rather lame timetable due to lack of proper competition. We have really few good developers in the Windows Mobile world that make apps that can rival and often exceed Android apps' quality. Take Rudy Huyn, for instance. His apps are quite often better than droid's official ones. I would not bother installing Android apps if I have a better ones already from a good WP developer.
Indeed! I'll also say Webrox with tubecast and video 360 is a top notch Windows developer! Being able to make a better youtube app than the official on other platforms is really astonishing.. Oh, and don't forget perfect thumb with great all around offerings!
apps are going beyond universal :D Cross universal lol
Lol. Microsoft is creating another Big bang
For real.
A lot of developers won't even need to develop a real app for windows phone,they can just sideload it to windows phone with this Microsoft new tool with less features or less ability to work properly on windows phone.
Why bother develop native apps for windows phone?
Microsoft really have a thirst for market share,with stupid and dump motive.
This is what worries me as well. They might just be killing their own platform, before even knowing if the UWP approach would have been successful.
As both a heavy user and a developer I kinda welcome this. It's a great way to quickly fill the app gap (which is really tiny for me) and let developers and users try Windows 10 Mobile out maybe without losing access to their must-have apps. That could boost the market share, and a big increase in market share could probably give developers the incentive to start on native apps, since they'll have a larger install base and access to other parts of the os. Also, native apps is in almost every case faster, smoother and more responsive than emulated apps.
I'm really excited about this, and I've successfully sideloaded the only app I'm missing, my operators own app where I can see data usage, estimated amount to pay and other useful stuff. It runs really good for an emulated app, but theres some minor ui glitches.
For those trying out some apk's, how's the performance on WM compared to Android? A tad slower? Or perhaps, gulp, even faster?
It is Stuttery. Why people are saying it's smooth is beyond me
Totally off topic!!! While I enjoy and have enjoyed what Windows Central offers it is just become a bit to anoying as to how slow the site loads and all the adds everywhere I look. I'm sure I'll pop in now and then but I really need to look to other sites, at least for now.
That is why I use the windows central app on phone and pc ;)
I tried it a while back and didn't really like the app but maybe I'll give it another try. Thanks for the reminder.
Block all the ads. It works very smooth after blocking ads. Even on my lap with 4 GB and 3rd Gen Core i3 lap WC works flawlessly.
I would buy an Windows Phone If it wasn't the App Gap... wait, what?!! muhahahahaha!!! The Snapchat douchebag just sh.t his pants.
So it is illegal to extract an apk from an app on my phone? Even if it's a free app? Posted via the Windows Central App for Android on my Oneplus One
Grey area, actually. Depends on the EULA for that app and what the developer intended. Sure, some won't mind. Others may.
this looks great but google will definitely try their best to stop this. -_-
Exactly!
Want quality apps not more apps.
There are quality apps...you need quantity now!
Thing is, the quantity of apps will most probably lead to less quality apps. Competition will be much harder and there is no more reason to write native quality apps anymore.
I like this news. It means that we will have more polished apps on the windows phone and other ecosystem Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
Targting a bigger share of developers and using what is already being developed is not a bad idea but what about the native windows phone developers? Guys you have knowledge and you have abilities and a benefit of already being familier to Microsoft Development tools so go and develop for windows 10 universal apps which are lot more appealing that those lot of Android developers can't develop with the ease that you can...!!!! And i feel even better now why? Because now it will increase the number of apps on windows store for phones only i believe which is the main focus of the customers these days so the number of windows phone user will increase and hence you will earn a lot more from windows phones itself but remember those 1 billion pc users too for whom you have developed this app in reality ;-) i think good days are comiing soon lovely windows developers!!!!
Why do we earn more money? Currently, market share is low but competition is low. Soon, market share will still be low, but competition will be a LOT bigger. The increase of WP market share will never be able to compensate the drastic increase of competition.
I sadly agre...
Now just don't think of windows phone apps only, But think for developing windows 10 universal apps because of Windows 10 which will have more market share then android or ios because of pc, windows phones, HoloLens and everywhere windows 10 is there and you will be at home in doing so too and since market share is really huge you are going to get paid very well.
This is true for apps that make sense for other devices. But a lot of apps do not really make sense on anything but the phone. That is also the reason why the WP Store has a lot more apps that PC Strore. So for many of those apps, the universal platform is not an argument. And for HoloLens, while it is a very interesting device, there are only very very little amount of WP apps that would make sense to run on that device.
Will anyone please try Spotify for Android and let me know if it supports connect on WP?
Can someone please give me the links!?
No, read the article.
I reas many a times...im a good reader. Thank you. I coudnt find it anywhere hence asked for the links...help me or keep quiet. Thanking yoy in anticipation!
You need to read the article a few more times buddy ;)
Help me or keep quiet? .. Piss off
Leaking confidential information and pebble win phone appx OK Linking to leaked developer tools, not OK?? This deserves a whole post as to WPC morals and what has lead to this. I'm guessing you just have a bunch of articles written due to help from NDA and now your hurt others beating you to the punch... Or someone tried legal action over previous leaks
"This deserves a whole post as to WPC morals and what has lead to this. "
We do not need to explain or justify our decisions. I don't owe you that. You can internet, you know where to find these things. The Pebble app was actually very different (that APPX was literally sitting in the Store), but I am not here to point those out because it's not important.
"and now your hurt others beating you to the punch... "
I am more concerned with Windows 10 for desktop than mobile, which is a tiny market. Windows Central is so big right now, we do need the traffic from this nor the legal ramifications or the moral quandary associated with pirating apps from Android developers, costing them money. (Hint: the Microsoft Pebble app demo did not cost and devs money). Nuance is important.
Hey quick question, in regards to game port using these tools, will the developer be able to make their game an Xbox game with gamer points... Or will they still need to jump thru a thousand hoops for that as it is now?
From what I recall at build, devs can "quickly" add Xbox integration for achievments.
What Project Astoria was supposed to do was to allow companies making the banking, shopping, airline, etc apps to take their Android app and make minor modifications to their code and have them ready for Windows 10 for Mobile. Those minor changes would allow apps to access the Microsoft versions of the Google Play functionality that their apps used. Like push notification support. And all from their existing Android development tools. The aim would allow companies to release a port of their app with a much smaller development cost. It fails to account that testing and support can cost as much as app development.
There is a very simple answer for the question, "Why will Windows developers stay on windows of they can code for android and port it to Windows?" Because they love Windows. Or else, why would they program for an OS whose share is so low? Besides ported apps won't work that good as compared to native apps. It's like human's avator in the movie AVATOR. Ultimately the native beings of that planet were able to adapt properly and won the battle. Outsiders always have their WEAKNESS.
Sure we love it. But currently even if market is small, at least competition is also small. But soon we will get lots and lots of unfair competition. From android devs that get into the windows market for free, while we cannot get into any other market to compensate our lose of market share due to increased competition. We the MS fans are the outsiders, you are right, and now MS makes presents to our rivals instead of making presents for us. This is going to make our lives harder. And it is not going to convince anyone to start coding native windows apps.
The market of Windows Phone / Windows 10 is fresh and almost empty in comparing to Andorid. This will encourage devs as this will be the start to make easy money. In Android, it's not easy to start a new project/app as there are many. Now, applications in Android should be unique or can't survive. However, this is not the case here!
The market of Windows Phone / Windows 10 is fresh and almost empty in comparing to Andorid. This will encourage devs as this will be the start to make easy money.
You mean this *would* be the case. Now it looks more like the WP10 market will be flooded with all these android apps. So no more making money with native apps in this very small market. How is that going to motivate anyone?
+1... And with a the majority of android apps, why users have to buy a WP...? I fear the same...
I'm a windows phone dev, and I think this is a really great move by MS. As a dev I really don't see a threat - but then I'm involved in an app that is original rather than trying to plug a gap by copying apps from other platforms...so I can understand why some will be annoyed. All in all, this is great for the platform as the big hole is the 'app gap' which will now in theory be gone. I don't think this will harm native development in the long run as windows 10 is bigger than just phone - it is a good way to get onto the platform and understand the benefits that these devs may have just overlooked.
Now if I only can side load metro tube on my galaxy s6
Dear wp lover I feel MS as done right thing
Lazy developer didn't took time for windows can finish doing in short span
I am waiting for devs to publish the app officially.
Oh,
I really think this is good news, but I fear that Google is going to somehow mess this up just to spite Microsoft and Windows Phone users.
If I could code, I'd definitely download all google play store Apps and make them compatible with Windows Phone. I would then automate the update process. All I need is to set up my server in Russia and do some Putin licking. I hope google dies a painful death.
That exactly what I fear.
Lots of apps => lot of spam => lot of cracked free apps => less profits => wp devs change platform =>WP becomes an android player => WP dies
I'm quite sure sideloading is just for testing. These apps will find their way to store, eventually. Developers are just getting one more cross platform option...
port APK is good news but run .apk files is not good news.... I hope app will be portet so easy and maybe in one week work not just run the .apk file on clean OS like windows 10!
I want google play store and ios store on my windows phone
I believe it to be a good thing. People want apps on their phones and this project does just that. I myself as many others out there couldn't care less about apps on the PC. Yes its cool but not necessary. So if all these apps were ported from android to wp10 and I had live tile and notifications I'd be happy. Look ar apple with their two stores. Developers need to code for ios and OSX and I believe the mac store doesn't do as much revenue as the ios store. I personally believe that to have one app on all of windows 10, windows phone 10 and Xbox one running win10 is a novelty, not a necessity. So this project along with the ios bridge I think will push windows phone up there and keep it alive for years to come.... That is if developers port them.... There is no purpose of going all out with there projects if developers won't want to port their apps over....
Does snapchat works?
No, that was mentioned in the article...
i'm a windiows dev and i think the bridges are great. the more apps and developers can use the platform the better, thet will bring in users and that is never bad. sure if your business model is copying apps on andriod and ios and putting them on windows 10, i can see thir point, but those arent the kind of apps i like to see more of anyway. windows 10 as a dev platofrm is not really impacted by this because you're never going to get the same fidelity and performance on apps that are not nativley written for the platform, all this is doing is bringing in dev that would never written apps for windows in the first place and closes the app gap faster
Great. This way more apps will come to Windows Phone 10. Once the developers see success on the Windows 10 Mobile platform
they will start coding directly for Windows as direct coding is always better. That being said,once there are Windows Phones available
that take advantage of the new Intel Micron / XPoint memory technology
it won't matter any more at all.I gather.
"On the one hand, why should developers now make Windows Phone apps when they can just do Android and port it over?" Because no one is making apps on WP? This tool along with the iOS tool is very important is bringing life to the Windows store.
A year ago, I would have been very upset for porting apps... now... after a very messy year for windows... I don't care anymore... bring me the apps, even andorid apps, they're good anyway >_< Even so, in the MS conference... I understood that ios apps CAN run on PC and on Phone... as universal apps... the same for android apps... so I don't see what's the problem here
Not exactly. Windows Bridge for iOS lets you recompile an iPhone app for Windows Phone with zero to minor changes needed to the source code. Apps already compiled for iOS will not run.
Nice for WP though I am not missing any apps personally. If I were I would sideload apps that I needed. That being said I would gladly pay $$$ for the app if the developers decide to publish it officially. I am all in for supporting the developers but in WP right now... there aren't alot.
Satya's great Indian Jugaad..lol..I am sure this gonna work.Windows Mobile will be at 20% market share in no time.
I'm a developer, I released native apps on WP, iPhone and worked on a few Android projects as well, so from that perspective here's my $0.02. The real problem for WP developers is the influx of apps that will now show up. It's a lot easier to get your app discovered on WP because the number of apps is smaller. While making it easy to port apps from Android or iOS could help bring new top apps to the platform faster, it will also bring a lot of the (crappy) smaller apps. That's what will hurt most indie developers. However, a developer that still targets WP with XAML/C# apps despite of it's tiny market share probably won't stop because you can now easily port an Android app. It's still a port, it still requires additional work (If you actually try this tool and deploy Android apps to your W10M device you'll find out most of these apps don't work well) and if you already have an existing native WP app you would be better off sticking with that code base. For new apps, there are much better options if you want to have one code base for all platforms. There have been other solutions to help developers port apps between platforms (apportable for example helps developers port their iOS apps to Android) and while some developers use these tools most don't because it's simply not as good as a native app And of course there's the whole Windows 10 universal apps. These ported Android apps are supposed to only run on mobile, and the Windows 10 mobile market is still small but if you're using XAML/c# you can target the much larger full Windows 10 market. tl/dr I don't really buy developers "quitting" native WP development because it's "easy" to port Android apps over, it's a knee jerk reaction but they'll soon realize they're wrong
This is amazing. I hope that this will reassure developer that porting is trivial. I don't mind a port if it assist WP to get to the critical market share place required for sustainability. Obviously I will always prefer an universal app, but you have to start somewhere!
Guys! For Snapchat use Casper. Work fine, but you must activate "BlackBerry Mode" in app settings.
Where can I find Casper apk? I can't find it
Microsoft's main focus should be on growing their platform. When the big applications are either not present or haven't been updated in 1-2 years, people will flock to devices like the Moto G instead. It's even worse when you look at applications from individuals or very small development teams that focus on a small market, because they haven't updated their apps in 3-4 years. Android and iOS apps are being updated, while Windows Phone apps become so outdated they don't even work anymore.
How will you make some adament-not-to-develop-for-windows suckers such as Snapchat do apps for windows platforms?
Can somebody sideload Clash of Clans? I want to play it but it aint available on windows. :(
Clash of Clans works perfectly with this.
Now with this apps can be updated more frequently.
Find it rather strange if developers doesn't make universal apps for Windows 10. A potential market with maybe 1-2 billion customers over time? Should be a possibility to make a shitload of money...
Haha kewl
Thats really cool. Bring it over to Windows now.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah etc
I'm quite sorry for the devs, but anything that upsets google in any way just makes my balls tingle :D
I would rather have the adroid apk's. I'm grateful for the apps that dedicated windows developers produce, but at the same time Most of the apps that are on windows store are generic or (compared to android an ios) non existent. There isn't even a banking app I can check for my work or anything on windows phone.
My bank has a fully functional WP app. No complaints there.
I changed my bank because of it, easy.
Then switch to Android lol Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
I located the files, didn't take me long. But then I started thinking and came to the conclusion that I don't need this. All the apps I personally use are already in the store, some apps are just better programmed on the Android platform. I'd rather wait to see the official BIG THING. And I still think I'll use 6tag over Instagram from Android. Rudy deserves it.
You dont want to promote stealing Android apps, and you don't "need the traffic". That makes me laugh given you wrote a huge article on the whole thing, and the tittle is enough to draw people in. So that totally doesn't make sense
Considering how terrible some apps already are, I can't see this being a bad thing. Worst case we get some android ports that provide some level of functionality (I'm looking at you Directv and your multiple-year old piece of junk). Best case we get some developers that port and then improve/upgrade the app to make it more of a native application. If someone ports it and immediately gets traction on the Windows Store I would be surprised if they didn't try and improve it from there.
Okay let's get this straight. You can't "Port" iOS apps to W10M. Microsoft have provided a "Bridge" to allow the developer to use as much of their original code as possible, to write Universal Apps. Project Astoria is completely different. That, if it doesn't rely on any google services, can be published to the Mobile store unchanged.
I don't understand why after so many informative & clear articles from Dan & the team here, people are still not getting it. #Ignorance.
So true. People don't read.
Daniel, The one thing that may be an approach for many devs (andriod/ios) is do the Appx to get it out there and then do the islandwood later for the full ecosystem. But for right now its a funny choice as w10 is here so islandwood is a better choice if you want to get the most users today and have the phone users add-on as its upgraded./sold. I think it will be a mixed bag of the two ...
On Positive note, It's time for Android Developers to develop/port for Windows 10 Mobile and publish it in STORE. Profit!
Now that app developers CAN port their apps over, it might convince more to start with Windows because you can simply write once in C# and target the other platforms using Xamarin...which is more efficient than the reverse (I.e. writing in Objective-C/Swift for your iOS app and Java/C++ for your Android app and porting to Windows doing twice the work.)
I'm a small developer who has apps in the store but is still learning. My perspective is to boycott Astoria in every possible way. That's my stand as both developer and user.
I think the whole point of this is that if you are not a Windows developer and you don't know C# then it allows you to enter the Windows market without learning a whole new technology stack and will hopefully slowly convince those developers to learn C# and XAML to create a more powerful and universal App, if they do that or not it makes no difference as long as Windows Phone users have access to that service or game etc. In your case there is nothing to boycott because you are already in that technology stack. If Google and Apple made similar tools I would use it to port over for sure, I'm not going to learn those stacks but why should that stop me earning on those platforms and more importantly why should that stop my services being available to users outside of the Windows ecosystem. Keep working on your apps, and keep learning and pushing forward, it's great to see new developers working with the Windows platform. Unfortunately too many developers jumped ship to Java and other platforms, a bit of fresh blood in Windows is always welcome!
I'm waiting for centennial.
I'm disappointed with Microsoft going down this route, instead of acting like the Chinese equivalent of OS company that makes copies of others products with minor differences and claiming they are not copies, sort out the issue that stops developers from doing apps for windows. This could well kill of their OS as customers might think "why bother with Windows Phone if I can get the actual full version apps on iOS or Android". If Windows 10 for phones is not what the hype claims when it's released, I'll get Android next, I wont get iOS as I think just being a main product and no OEMs sharing their OS makes its pricing to much to stomach considering the tech in their equipment is either matched or surpassed by others now.
Good riddance man, we couldn't care less.
Ha ha that is awesome.
This puts Android developers in a more awkward situation than Wp devs in my opinion. They really can't complain about piracy on WP since the market wasn't enough for their efforts.
If they complain that essentially kills the "to small to care" argument.
Not sure wp devs should be too upset...
They are far better placed to do a w10 UWA and leverage a market that will be 3 times the size of phone alone very shortly. Having apps that work on PC/phone is a draw for many of the apps you use and a easy differentiator,
"Desktop" users tipically don't buy apps, and it will take time to win10 to gain market. It's not an easy decision for a WP dev if resist or pass over to ios/android Stores, believe me :(
That's one only solution:
- no sideload (inhibit direct apk deploy)
- mandatory visual studio re-compilation (to add a tile..)
- download from the Store only (mandatory certification)
That's horrible. We should have the freedom to I stall apk and other files freely like it currently is when you are developer unlocked with appx files etc but you'll also need develoepr unlocked device? Posted via the Windows Central App on my Lumia 640 or using the Android Version which is free*
I agree with you @venetasoft. Microsoft should remove the developer features from the final build of W10M and just use the options that you have listed above.
I think this will be a great entry point for app developers. Port your android app first while you build your universal app that takes advantages of windows 10 features (continuum, mouse/keyboard input, etc)
When the developer of the app himself does the porting, or have somebody do it for him, then questions of legality and morality does not come into play. It is when some tom, dick, or harry does it without the permission or knowledge of the developer that it becomes piracy and stealing. Used correctly, these tool are useful to developers who want to port their apps to W10 Mobile My hope is that they will be hugely succesfull because they can only benefit the platform and its user base.
Well well well.... So the mighty have fallen
That'll be the day the music died....
So....since Panasonic hasn't released their imaging app for windows phone, I tried to get it to work with the conversion from android. The app showed up and launched just fine. I connected to my camera's wifi...but the app did nit recognize the connection. So there's one that didn't quite work. I got the .apk by using an apk extractor app on my android tablet. Not sure if that is why it didn't work. Oh well, it was worth a shot!
it does feel wrong for users to do that. But to be honest i don't think developers have much reason to be upset about. Those developers who are not even taking 10 minute of their time to do this. It just goes to show how easy it is for developers to port apps to Windows phone. If some developer don't want to make their app for windows phone, I'll still have respect it because sadly its still their choice. Not like it but respect it. I see more wins for both sides than loss. its like when you find a brick, whether you build a shelter for homeless or use that brick to break somebody's window is completely out of the ones hand who built the brick in the first place. I'm all against piracy and stealing but... Necessity is a mother of all inventions. go Microsoft.!!!! it's like when you
One billion question - Should I wait for windows 10 mobile or go to android. I c a blunder from Microsoft here!
big time news... on the other hand.. i am pretty excited to read those who are going to find out that MS apps for Android are really better compared to those for WP....
If Google play services does not work, apps just need to support live accounts, thats all. Also for apps there are other third party android stores which MS can support
I, for one, am thrilled. I've been putting up with Android for months now for one reason: My MMO poison of choice has an Android component that has no parallel on Windows Phone, official or otherwise. The app is 100% free from start to finish, doesn't even have advertisements. If this allows me to play this game on the go on a Windows platform, then I am completely back on board with my Windows Phone.
That's incredible. I see Windows Phone improving in the app department ^.^ Posted via the Windows Central App on my Lumia 640 or using the Android Version which is free*
Does this work for things like the pebble app and android wear that uses bt services on the phone?
i think this is nice move by MS. This gives developer to TWO alternative to make app for windows, (1). make native app so that it can run on all windows platform or (2). simply port using astoria to work on WP with minimal work. And even now developer don't care. then they can suck google's dick and be their bitch.
"Our goal with the iOS bridge has never been simply to run iOS apps on Windows. Rather, our goal is to help you write great Windows apps that use as much of your existing code and knowledge as possible." - Windows Bridge for iOS (blog) says . This Sounds Great ! The blog cleanly explains how objC(weirdness) can take adv of Windows API. Interseting part when XAML & UIKit works together. Finally this is not just a replicating process. Porting iOS/Andriod is an another option. It depends on the app & dev they know what is best way to go.
Purposely leaked post by Microsoft......but if that's not true, it is really going to be great experience for all wp users..!!
... but native WP devs will fill gambled, and will run away faster as light speed....WP then will be an android player without any sense, and people next phone will be an S6.
Android apps on Windows Phone? No, thank you. Malware :-(
OK, this isn't just "sideloading an APK directly"! What rubbish! It is app porting (very simple app porting, but porting all the same). First, you have to have a FULL ANDROID SOFTWARE DEV KIT AND INTEGRATED DEV ENVIRONMENT TOOLS! Then you need the Astoria tools and the Windows 10 Mobile emulator. Then you need to unpack the APK and decompile the bytecode back into Java sourcecode. Then you need to add a few lines to the Java code so that if it is compiled with Windows 10 Mobile as a target, it will link in those Microsoft Interop Classes (the "bridge" code). Then you need to modify your backend SERVER code so that it will send notifications to the Microsoft push servers and NOT to the Google push servers, otherwise notifications won't work. You then need to recompile with Windows as a target to generate an APPX. This is not the kind of stuff your average guy in the street is going to be able to do to just get whatever sh*te waste of time app is the flavour of the week onto his Windows Phone!
If permitted, auromated tools, or even specialized apps, will proliferate soon...
Then port facebook apps from androidor ios i dont care, coz the facebook apps from MS itself is ugly :D
So, huge Android piracy problem continues... on Windows Phone? Wow.
Also: "This morning, the actual tools for Project Astoria have leaked onto the web and users can freely (and illegally) download Android APKs and sideload them to their Windows Phone running Windows 10 Mobile" You can download APKs legally, for example Android games bought via Humble Android Bundles.
But I'm sure you cannot decompile and recompile those downloads APKs legally!
Microsoft should use these tools but for limited time to get everything in place, by using this tools they can fill the app gaps between Android, iOS and windows but using it for a limited time like 2 years when 70/80% off the app migrated over to win store and win phone market share grow hopefully, then they should stop using these tools and force developers to bet on the then popular(hopefully) windows phone and develop apps
To be honest there is nothing I would like to port to Windows but it's good to have this possible.
disregard
Can I say that I sympathize, on both sides of the issue. But I still do not believe that developers are going to take out the time to write apps on Windows, and I don't think that Project Astoria is going to encourage developers to port apps to Windows either. Developers who want to write for Windows will take the time out to put in the work and create an app for the platform. The only thing that this tells me is that the handful of developers that were willing to use the tools to modify their apps to work on Windows Phone can now do so before the official tool is released. But again, if they wanted a Windows app they would have written one anyway. A year ago, when we were first talking about the idea of running Andriod apps on Windows Phone it was the end of world in the comments section of Windows Central. No one wanted Windows Phone to become the next Blackberry, and informed posters had to educate the miseducated, ignorant, and beligerent posters in this forum how it would be different from what Blackberry did. There was a lot of hand wriging in the forums. So now its here and we're crying foul because it is not official? I agree with other posters about the legitimacy of this being a "leak", particularly when Microsoft has been known to turn the other way with respect to illegal copies of Windows on the desktop before. If no one had access to this then how did it get out? Some things just aren't adding up here. Just sounds like Microsoft is back at their old self, which isn't a bad thing. This is the Microsoft I've grown to love, as infamous as it was back in those days. I remember the whole antitrust thing; how unethical bundling Internet Explorer was, how they wanted to break up the company into pieces like it was yesterday. Reminiscent of the old battles AT&T and IBM had with the government. So, developers may cry foul because they put their hard work in, and now Microsoft's Windows Phone development "cheat sheet" makes it easier for developers that did not take the time to put in the work to port their apps over? Wasn't that going to happen anyway. That's like saying I got a master's degree and it took me 6 years and I hate you because you did it in a year and a half. That's just how the game is played. If you're an early adopter, you put in the hard work. If you wait and see how things develop, then you learn from other people's mistakes, or, you're better informed as to whether you should even bother than the guinea pigs were. Tough. Honestly as long as Windows Phone has been around, if people want to develop for it they will, if they don't they don't. If you think that knowledge is no longer of good use, well, you're better off for knowing than remaining ignorant. That's just the way that it is. You know how many things people learn, that are no longer of good use? If you really think about it, that is just the chance that you take learning in the first place. Yes it sucks, but it is part of life. Particularly in technology where nothing is gauranteed in the first place.
I'm going to have to try this, Getting the Bank of America app and Offical Pebble/ Pebble Time apps, if they would right would be worth it alone. I dont want it to pirate, I want it to be able to get the things that Windows Phone is missing.
Just buy an android phone if you're so desperate for android apps.....
About the universal developers, i think that Microsoft will make the reverse way and convert windows 10 apps to apk.
I could care less about a developer. I just want to go to the store and find apps, and not third party. I want to see an advertisement, like Bank of America did for depositing a check with your camera phone and then go download it. Period! Everything else is just noise. This will make the difference of whether someone pays into WP or not! Thanks MS! Finally!
Cheers to Snapchat on WP
after using sideloaded apk through astoria: Microsoft made final move to save windows mobile if this cant i wonder what might...little bit of tweaks here and there makes it perfect tool :).....for native app dev they are not betrayed bec i think microsoft want them to make their apps universal as these ported apps cant be universal so u(native app dev) going to have 1 billion of windows 10 to conqure...i request microsoft to not include this ported/sideloaded apps in to universal/one windows store instead they must be displayed in a different store which is only meant for mobile i mean 2 stores for mobile one universal store another ported apps/astoria store..by this store move native app dev gets moral support(mind game)...
Did someone try clash of clans???
I don't see the problem. After you port it, you can still make Windows Phone specfic changes to it. Plus, maybe Gen1 of some of these apps will be ports, but if it brings more people to the platform, developers will be more willing to make non-ported apps.And how is this steeling anything? Can't you run Windows on a Mac? Don't all types of emulators exist in the world?
It's not about stealing, it's about missing opportunities. There is even a full app store with nothing but free & open source apps (F-Droid). I'm not goint to steal someones property. I can hardly wait anymore for Conversations on my Lumia - probably the best XMPP/Jabber-app ever.
The way I see it 80% of the world run Android phones, less than 1% know anything about sideloading APKs as it's more hassle than getting them from the store. The way these tools work, which is to convert it into a WP APPX for development, would be used by less than 1% of the 5% of the world using WP as WP's general userbase aren't that techy so it's a total non-issue. I do think it's great for developers with less time to be able to run the converter, add in some W10 improvements like live tile and notification and just get a foothold into W10. The idea being they get a foothold, W10 grows substantially and it becomes commercially viable to create a native W10 universal app. It's also a pretty clever set of tools which bad bits of press like this aside, should be recognised as great work.
Can anyone advice me on how easy or difficult it is for an app developer (presumably only Android or iOS developer) to port his/her app to Windows. I was told by a guy that for games it will be a week's worth of effort but for some other apps which has lots of tools and functionality, it could even take more than a month even via porting. Is that true? If so, I don't really see much benefit for the developer. Or am I missing something? P.S. I am no developer and don't really uderstand the technicalities behing app development. My querry is from a user's perspective. I think if it really is very simple and apps can be ported pretty easily, it will be great for customers and thereby Microsoft. If it really requires a lot of effort, then it might never pick up to have any impact on widows OS
I think Microsoft need to complete the developer story the other way round. I can see why they are doing this but really they need to enable developers to develop universal apps for windows and port them to android and iOS like xamarin. This creates a windows first developer story and avoids poorly done ports for windows. Realistically I thought they would release both ways round at the same time.
Fully agree, this is something that would really help adopting of universal apps! With the current move (Astoria), devs are pushed into writing native Android apps and then having only a port for WP, instead of having the native app on WP and a port on Android, which could be done using Xamarin technology. MS should finally buy Xamarin and integrate it directly into VS. That would really help the unversal apps approach.
The thing that users don't understand is that this tool was developed for DEVELOPERS to port them apps, NOT to end consumers steal apks from Android Apps and port them themselves. Have you ever thought that a developer may don't want his app on Windows?
I don' thave much to add beyond what has already been commented on, but I do want to say that I respect your hardline approach to not linking to the leaked file. That alone separates you as a true journalist, with ethics, in the blogosphere. Well done.
I don't care how the developers feel to be honest! They don't feel nothing about not putting Apps on my phone, so I don't feel nothing if someone can port them over easily!!!! Remember, I'm the consumer, and your job is to make "ME" happy! And choices is king! This should be a push for them to release a native app for Windows Phone and not drag their asses on it!!! Tell them that!!!!! That's how I feel about the situation!!!
A well project by Microsoft. It's good for me a starting dev. But the android subsystem doesn't exsist on PC environment. Please allow it Microsoft. Please put that feature in PC. Thanks and Godbless.
I think the "Bridging" and "Incentive system for native app developers" together should solve the problem

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