During Microsoft's Ignite conference this week the next stage of Continuum for Windows 10 Mobile was revealed. Likely slated for the Redstone 2 release slated for early 2017 the "next evolution" of Continuum pushes the phone as a PC experience even further.
In a new video posted by Microsoft Ignite (spotted by MSPU) four main features, were discussed at one of the sessions.
Those new features include:
- Independent Monitor Idle – Let one screen time out while you keep working on the other one
- Proximity Connect – Keep your phone in your pocket and connect wirelessly to your dock
- Customizable – Independently customizable Start screens across connected devices
- More PC-like experience – Enable "win key + type"; Taskbar app pinning, System tray Windowing
While Continuum, as it is today, is interesting its applicability to the real world is somewhat limiting due to the incomplete analogy of the experience. While it looks PC-ish being able to see only one app at a time is rather limiting. Being able to move windowed apps independently, snapping them, and having them overlap is a much more familiar and useful scenario.
Microsoft is adding other bits too like PC-like notifications and right-click context menus to go even further.
With this next stage of Continuum Microsoft is now improving and refining the experience as they continue to blur the line between PC and your smartphone. This progression will only increase with each Windows milestone reached until the hardware and software experience closely mimics today's PCs.
Thinking of the Continuum project as a journey and it should be fascinating to see it evolve not only in 2017 but years from now as well.
What do you make of these features coming to Continuum? Does it change your mind at all about this concept of a smartphone and a real differentiator for Microsoft?
Reader comments
Microsoft's vision of Continuum revealed in a new video, and it looks marvelous
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How do we make suggestions to Microsoft about user interface issues. I'm thinking about the scroll-bar aside the projected phone screen; it is very narrow and, when using the phone screen as a mouse, its just so difficult to aim at a slender scroll-bar.
Feedback Hub...
But 1st search that no-one else has already made the same suggestions.
If they have, add your comments to those pre-existing suggestions.
Slowly becoming practical. Throw in native x86 application support and the true Surface Phone becomes a reality.
Posted from my OnePlus One.
The picture in this post is perfectly showing, why Continuum is a pointless effort. All it has done is to make Google think how to get to a comparable experience, which if it works will finally drive Windows off consumer PCs. And honestly, as technology is sold not by marketing but via word of mouth which always starts by professional users, what are the pro features? Active Directory? Server Message Blocks, to access a simple Network share? Visual Studio? This is getting ridiculous.
Can't get a windows phone in Singapore, and it's time for me to get a new phone. What should I do?
I love continuum... i use it every day
The independent monitor idle is appealing to me, the biggest problem I've had with Continuum so far is when using it to watch Netflix, Hulu, etc. on the TV. The problem is you can't turn off your phone screen or it will disconnect the TV. That gets irritating quick when you're in the habit of turning your phone off after you read or send a text.
Download the free app, "Blackout for Continuum". Makes the phone black while in Continuum mode. Work well on my 950.
What I don't quite understand is why they are only making it similar. Why not make it identical? If its being used on a normal display, whats the difference? I realize there are certain mobile phone specific features like the back button...But other than that, why not make it THE same and not kind of the same?
Looks pretty good. It will take quite some time for the apps (and users) to adapt, but maybe in a few years there will be a reason to get back into W10M.
certainly interesting technology.. To be sure. But, I'm retired. I don't have a need for a business focused OS and phone. And yet, I love the interface of Windows 10 Mobile so well.
I really got down on the whole Ecosystem after reading a Thurrott article last night.
Why is Microsoft making an OS that even it's own employees don't use?
Fuuny how some ppl here think Continuum is useful while MS employees dont, or may be MS doesnt have monitors lying around for ppl to use.
MS employees have no sense of pride and loyalty. One ms data scientist in Singapore used a Mac! Can't believe my eyes
Thurrott's article is much different.
His was about if you are a consumer, Windows mobile is not for you, it's for business's only.
I wish I knew what to believe or a change happens at Microsoft. I have to side with Thurrott. They retrenched for business - don't care about the consumer. Microsoft employees don't even carry Windows Phones anymore - Noticeable at Ignite.
Can't wait to have those improvements ! As a big Continuum, those new functions seems really interesting.
Looks really great. Like that it will become a lot more useful and PC-like. I hope they can deliver and won't delay it. Coming soon...
What about users with phones without Continuum? Lumia 950 and other Continuum phones is less than 1% of whole Windows Mobile (Phone). So they won't do anything about that? We want same cool things as Android or iOS has, not asking more or something new at least.
I suspect that's why their next phones will be all high class business, probably no less than snaps 6xx and up, in order to deliver adequate Continuum to every devices. The low cost sector was good for Nokia, maybe, but could not implement this new paradigm shift MS is trying to do. PS: and now that 950XL is less than 300 bucks in several places around the world, it shouldn't be so hard getting one, let alone the 950. Hope for more coverage of OEMs with Continuum capable devices (snap 6xx+), of course.
Continuum needs a GPU which supports 2 screens, and only SD 617, 808, 810 and 820 can do that.
Check twitter tfwboredom account, he tested old lumia phones including 640, 830 and 930, Continuum worked good enough, not as perfect as 950 but it worked!
This looks awesome! I really hope they will bump up the perfomance, continuum feels a bit laggy on 950 XL.
HP Elite x3 & the Dock wired to your touch monitor ~ adaque ...
I trust all this support for Continuum heralds a 'surface' phone in the new year. Its a bit pointless if this is not so Really like the Blue Tooth link too
Roger Stenson
it does.
or you could buy the HP Elite x3 now and
then use the "Insider" program to access a premature alpha Continuum 2
Impressing.
I must confess I'm impressed. Wish I could afford to buy one of those
You know what I really like? A white taskbar. That's neat looking.
I am surprised they are putting so much effort into making a phone like a PC. Seems to me they should be making the PC like a phone ... so for instance at the MS they have a small slim tablet for $99 (I think it is 7" or something like that). It already is a PC form factor and runs full windows; what if they just added a cell radio / etc. Furthermore, what if they added that capability to a notebook. Then it seems they wouldn't have to try so hard to sync up the PC and phone, but instead the PC / notebook, etc. became the phone. They wouldn't have to rely on tricks to get Cortana to sync text messages from the PC to phone.
The future PC is Mobile (ARM & Continuum, etc) with UWP appx replacing the old x86/x64 software.
So, when are they enabling Continuum desktop on the xbox? Scorpio ?
Interesting :)
That's a better marketing than 10000 ads.
Whenever I see a Continuum related article, I really can't get myself excited in any way. I wholeheartedly agree that it is an interesting proof of concept that is quite relevant to Microsoft's demonstration of Universal Windows Platform. But I guess I am just not convinced of the end goal set up by the project.
Let's say that, for the sake of the argument, all the hurdles of making the so-called PC in your pocket are overcome - that includes fully mature Universal Windows Platform with virtually no app gaps, support for legacy x86 apps and hardwares advances for sufficiently capable and versatile mobile/desktop hybrid experience, e.g. Intel CPUs as power-efficient as ARM SoCs. What then?
Sure, heavy users and enthusiasts who want all the power in their phones might welcome the idea, but they are also not going to be the people who would go the minimal route of removing all other hardwares except for their phones. That is, they will likely have some sort of desktop/laptop solutions that do much more than their phones, and so Continuum for them will just be a nice thing that they appreciate.
How about light users and average consumers? I believe that that market is already saturated with phone/tablet paradigm that we have now. Most of them do not require full-fledged desktop softwares like Photoshop or World of Warcraft, especially on their mobile devices. They need access to tasks that do not necessarily require significant processing power, and this is done to great extent by ARM devices. To add, screen size is not an issue here as many people are perfectly satisfied with 5 to 6 inch screens, and for those that aren't, there are tablets. In other words, they are not likely going to keep a separate monitor/keyboard/mouse system in their houses to actually enable Continuum feature, especially being much less tech-savvy than the first group mentioned above.
So then there are enterprises. While I can't project to what volume this Continuum strategy will be adapted by corporations in the near future, unless this solution drastically reduces implementation and maintenance costs as well as introduce dramatic increase in work efficiency - which I doubt - there is nothing appealing about replacing the workstation with a phone. Jobs that require heavy computing, such as design, programming, video editing, etc., can never go for Continuum solution. Jobs that do not require heavy computing will be content with their current set up of $300 or less desktop/laptop per station.
I think the central question that is suggested by Continuum is, can your phone replace your desktop? There are two issues with this question that just confuse the hell out of me. One issue is, as stated above, that there is no market for such a device that is actually meaningful, at least in my opinion. Another issue is, why would Microsoft be willing to do that? If the ultimate goal of Continuum is fully realized, that means death of desktop market as we know it. Might make sense for a company like Google, which has a significant marketshare in mobile but not in desktop, to pursue this strategy. Not Microsoft. It needs to make its mobile platform relevant by making it more dependent on its desktop platform. Everything else in their strategy seem to fit this equation - except Continuum.
To sum it up, I don't really see a future in Continuum and if there is one, it is an awfully puzzling one. Right now, I consider Continuum to be a great marketing device for Universal Windows Platform, but nothing more. Honestly I wish they'd just spend this energy elsewhere, such as actually polishing up their Windows 10 Mobile operating system.
The only way I personally see Continuum getting big is if computing power is augmented by the accessories. If it's not, you only have the power of your ARM device, which will always pale in comparison to what the latest hardware can do. If they can get that working, I don't see why Continuum can't work.
It's why I like Apple's implementation a lot better at this point in time. Their devices may not all run the exact same OS, but the way it's handled makes it feel like it does.
I think ARM should be quite capable to some extent even with multiple windowed apps. We already have one living example that it did work well, Windows RT.
Yes, initially it wasn't all sunshines and rainbows with Tegra 3, but able to run Windows 8 even with restrictions is technically impressive, especially that it runs an actual desktop Explorer shell with its dependencies, its an actual desktop OS on ARM. Which leaves me to question that how come Continuum on W10M runs sluggish at times (especially at its early days). This just leaves me that software optimization is what it needs at least. Though what I'm more worried if its actually how it was built can be the issue, which is sadly likely not going to be addressed unless they decided to do another rewrite of Continuum, which is rather too late for that.
This only leaves me a faith to MS to actually manage to have an actual desktop-like UX while having at least good performance. Its a tall order especially that they have only around a year to make it on 2017, or it could ruin the Continuum concept and the platform as a whole.
Microsoft and HP Inc board of directors, advisors, analysers, and the specialists team not to mention the CEOs
don't seem to think so. Instead they bet heavily on Redstone 2 / Continuum 2 with their money and reputation.
Maybe it's their Enterprise customers that think this is an excellent idea?
I think you're missing the point. Continuum is aimed at a future where large, heavy, bulky screens are no longer the "only" way of projecting large-size images/GUI. Instead, think projectors, holograms, and so on. With a PC-in-your-pocket that supports all types of "screens" with not-plug-but-play, it's a real competitive advantage - the competition is way behind.
Sounds great... but... until it is a true PC in your pocket, I'm worried this will pass the masses like the original surface tablet did.
Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
Microsoft’s use of Windows phone internally. One attendee asked how Microsoft used Windows phone internally. Let me answer that one more accurately than the presenter did: They don’t. And at Microsoft Ignite this year, there was a dramatic drop in the number of Windows phones seen, especially among Microsoft employees. It was something many in the press remarked on...from Thurrott
But... but... but (haha)
WP has been dead for a very very very long time, the funeral was years ago. I like my WP, well, other than limited app support, which doesn't bother me as I really have no need them, in general. Heck, I know a few corporations that want off Windows completely, although that is a hard task, they are activitely working on ridding themselves of even Windows PC. Generally speaking, people don't want windows in any form... I would expect MS to continue to lose market share in mobile (although its getting close to zero now), and install of Windows PC to lose ground and lack any real growth in that sector. MS is a mobile first company, the thing is its mobile first on iOS and Android then they are cloud company. Windows is on borrowed time, although it could be quite a while. I like my WP but I wouldn't recommend it to a family or friend. I am expecting a Surface Phone (premium device), if that fails... shut the phone division down completely. Windows on the Phone died a long time ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eywi0h_Y5_U
That future though would leave no reason for MS to continue on with Windows 10 Mobile at all. Can they afford that? No presence in mobile beyond apps for iOS and Android. Maybe. Is there a need for a phone that runs a MS OS, when most of MSs apps already run on competing platforms? (sometimes better than on W10M) I personally prefer Windows Mobile, but clearly those of us who do are rare.
Google have their services on ios not a big deal because those services are on par with android sometimes better on android...ms have services on ios and android...many times they are exclusive...many times those have latest new updated features compare to windows...i just want ms to doom under satya management.
My whole family using windows mobile L1020,L730,L535,L950xl...slowly I'm gonna shift everyone to android starting from L1020...i cant take ms treatment to loyals anymore..no apps still we stick with ecosystem..satya leadership reached breakpoint...until next yr sept I will use L950xl..i carefully watch I8,S8,S8 note..
It's the worst time to switch. Everything is so exciting now.
I'm glad that you work at Microsoft and can provide a more accurate answer than the presenter that clearly doesn't work at Microsoft. How did he even get on stage??? He must have stolen your Microsoft employee badge! The nerve of that presenter, answering questions with his biased and outside knowledge!!!!!!
/s
I don't work at Microsoft but have on several occasions been to their UK HQ for meetings. All of the employees I met were rocking iPhones.
I mentioned in comment its from Thurrott..oh its a tech site..
It's been known for a long time internally MS really doesn't use WP. The numbers for windows on phone and tablets are not good... although it might be hard to track 2n1s now from 3rd parties. The surface has done okay but the numbers are still pretty insignificant, but its MS's premium product. At some point, the question isn't whether MS eliminates WP, but whether MS eliminates windows at some point. WP is dead, has been dead for many many years... heck I thought it was dead with WP7. To me that is a given, the only question I see now is how long MS stays in the Windows game... since now they are basically to the point of giving it away to non-business consumers? If the MS Store doesn't start succeeding... I am not going to be surprised if they ditch Windows.
Cool cool cool!
Now i hope phone gets side by side too and its not Continiuum only (fingers crossed)
Imagine Continuum in your car, pop up your music, maps, sports scores... This core tech can just do so much over the years to come.
I agree. It will be great to use a wp as media player, navigation, odb values ...
Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
Um this supposed to happen long ago if Microsoft didn't forget about MirrorLink, a currently standard technology similar to Android Auto and Apple CarPlay.
Microsoft needs to revisit that and make use of MirrorLink to have Windows 10 Mobile docked on car infotainment systems. Microsoft is missing a big time with this, especially that people don't normally replace car so often like phones. Means missing a support for years not having an integration.
Posted from alternate universe
They need to leverage Azure to provide seamless desktop like experiences through Continuum.
Hope the bring out something like Surface 3 shell which the continuum mobile would connect to... would meet my needs. Have already tried my L950 connected to my current Surface 3, works really well
Absolutely. A Surface 3 formfactor device that is mostly battery where the PC guts are, that supports both wired (charging the phone) and Miracast (so the phone could be in a pocket/purse) with an HDMI input so you could stick a Roku/FireTV stick in it too, and a USB port or two (one of which allows it to act as a USB monitor for your other laptop or Win 10 tablet) would be killer. Maybe it needs to be 13".
I approve these updates. Please proceed!
* Sigh if relief* Phew...Alright boys and girls, the boss has approved it, let's get to work!!!
I wonder why MS doesn't build a continuum dock with an enhanced processor that would allow the phone to power x86 apps?
I was wondering the same thing and more ram for added multi-tasking
Exactly
Because the phone wouldn't be powering the x86 apps, the dock would be. At that point the dock is a compute stick/Kangaroo PC. What would be the point of the phone?
Exactly, not to mention the dock would cost more. Technically there is a bottleneck too between the connection of the phone and the deck when it comes to CPU, which is all new monster to address.
Having the phone itself to power the Continuum experience is simple enough and should be capable. Yes there is a performance issues, but seems largely to the software. If we think about it, Windows RT which is basically Windows 8.X recompiled for ARM features full Explorer shell desktop that we use on PC, that even Tegra 3 can handle even better with newer SoC on last gen of Windows RT devices.
Posted from alternate universe
I can't wait to see a touchscreen continuum dashboard in a car! I hope see in the future. Microsoft, you need a car equipment partner!
It's a very nice idea. I think this could become Microsoft's interpretation of Chromebooks. I can see business who use web based applications use this.
It appears that those of us rocking the 9xx series and, to a lesser extent, the x3 are seeing results from our *beta* testing of continuum. To be honest, that's what it felt like in its original release.
Looking forward with interest to see how this pans out. If, and I mean, if, MS can get their advertising people to earn their living, or at least sub it out to someone who gives a toss! How come their in house demo videos outstrip anything they put out over the air?
Hey, i like what i see. Ms after a few years behind it's getting it. Bravo Ms.
Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
Looking good. I can't wait to see this feature evolve.
Arghf, I'm the only one that want a 7"-8" tablet running Windows 10 Mobile with Continuum support with both wired and wireless support??? If I really want to run x86 apps I can either fire up my laptop or use RDP in Continuum
Hi, you wouldn't happen to know if rdpapps work on continuum would you? (yes that's different to just plain rdp :P )
What do you mean by RDP Apps? If you are talking about apps run remotely independent from running them in a remote desktop, then yes. MS had talked about Azure Remote apps, and actually had some demos of that which worked on the Lumia 950/XL. I was able to remote into a Visio instance and use it, much like I can log into an Azure VM and have essentially a full Windows PC experience via my phone and Continuum. That app concept is also what HP is selling with their app services for their enterprise push with the X3. They are hosting LOB apps in their cloud for business users to access from the phone. Unfortunately I believe MS sai they were killing Azure Remote app. I though that would have been a killer feature for their Business O365 offerings. Imagine being able to access real Word, Excel or even Visio, Project, using just the phone and an inexpensive shell that powers the phone, and takes almost no management.
https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc755055(v=ws.11).aspx
Just a RDP session where the shell of the host system isn't shown essentially, this would make it seem like you're running desktop apps locally in continuum as opposed to just using teamviewer to use your dekstop PC. In addition rdp apps can be pinned as livetiles and the like exactly like a local program. I've seen the azure remote app and I assumed it was the same (not sure though) but HP is using citrix or the like and the actual programs that run aren't shown in the start menu sadly.
8.99" phone enablet tablet FHD (1920x1080) LCD, 8GB RAM, huge battery, several USB-C, 2*SIM & uSD+SD,
64-bit W10M, landscape Start Screen with 4-way [+] split windows even without Continuum,
BT keyboard screen covers (slim, tactile, with battery, 3rd party), pen
Kind of old Surface, but with a decent ARM CPU & 64-bit Mobile Windows.
Is it Redstone 2, 3 or later (I'll say 64-bit @ 2018) ?
What is that? Just a rumor or an actual device?
Soon on holiday all I need to take with me are 3 screens and a mobile....or 1 laptop and 2 slidenjoy screens.
Based on the presentation and demo video I can already see three issues that need to be discussed and adressed. 1. how well can the current hardware handle opening more than two apps/windows. In this demo the developer unfortunately only shows a sneek peak of upto two apps. Maybe the idea of supporting a taskbar with pinnable apps is a clue but the fact they did not show 3, 4 or more windows open is kind of worrying as to the backward compatibility of current windows 10 mobile devices on the market. This demo could also suggest that we could expect a disappointing experience of only being to open two windows at one time due to hardware processing limitations. That means windows 10 mobile for business could only support higher end devices and put the experience out of reach for mid and lowrange devices due to underpowerd cpus and laggy and slow end-user experience if they do want to operate within the threshold limits of the low-midrange cpu performance. A worrying thought. The question could be if the Elite X3 and Acer Primo Jade processors are powerful enough to handle more than two apps open simultaneously. 2. What is the value of windowed minimized apps when the desktop in windows 10 mobile doesn't support pinning apps and files on the desktop environment. I would think that if 1 were true it would be more valuable to have tablet mode like behaviors of apps for easier transition between full screen single apps or two snapped app side by side with autosnap and autoresize? 3. Start menu personalization. How will this be enabled without altering the current layout of the mobile screen? Wil continuum be a secondary project virtual startscreen? Will full screen startmenu be supported or remain small in the left lower quadrant as now. What personalization expansions will be possible if the start screen can not be projected full screen. What does this mean for support for large live tiles and the possbility to change the color and transparency of live tiles that is supported in mobile, but not in the desktop pc enivroment. If a secondary virtual desktop is the model used (which I think could be a solution to solve this issue), can the current qualcom have enough horsepower to handle a smooth experience. Or will we get subpar virtual destkop surrogate experience on medium to high end smartphone devices (a la underpower atom chips). And can the high end phones then still be considered and worth the definition of a high end and performance device?? The demo is still to basic and vague at this point, informative, but not inspiring for glimpses into a better continuum epxerience per se. Stil happy to hear the improving the continuum experience and supporting "multiple windows" is on the agenda!
Hardwarewise secondary screen = monitor is supported starting from the Snapdragon 805,
which means that the Lumia 950 (SD 808), Lumia 950 XL (SD 810), HP Elite x3 (SD 820) can do it.
Also SD 617 in the Acer Jade Primo, NuAns Neo, Alcatel OneTouch Pixi 4 Windows, etc can do it.
Those are the low-end devices. - Well, maybe the HP Elite x3 could be considered a mid-range device.
Even the future SD 830 might not be powerful enough for you, but let's wait and see...
It also depends on the demands of the Apps in question. Maybe you can have what you want withe the HP Elite x3.
Remember: you need that Redstone 2 first.
Continuum is the future of mobile computing! :)
Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
This is so awesome. Now all we need is a efficient x86 CPU and a major step up in battery technology. The future looks good.
Yes!
Looking very cool and touch screen support, as well as real "windows". I can see tablet shell dock in the future too. Just hope this new features would come to Lumia 950, as it looks like the demo was using 950/xl.
It'll be both, at least until the HW remains capable
Thats sexy. keep going
Imagine if instead of Android, Microsoft had won the mobile battle early on with this. We could all be using Continuum-enabled devices for everything now.
Android tried this early on and it was found to be pointless. No one is looking for this functionality. Why carry around a laptop shell when it could easily have its own processor and a full Windows experience? Microsoft doesn't have the app store to make something like this work. Without x86 compatibility, Windows is pointless.
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Because it was premature? Just like Spot? Just like Palm Treos? Just like Windows Tablet?
No offense, but who are you to declare such a thing?
Why does Google make a web-based Chromebook? Because increasingly people are using win32 apps less and less.
Lol!! I thought for a minute I was going to get the *we* comment again. Can't believe you let the 'no one is looking for this functionality' comment go.... I, for one, want it. I use continuum a lot when out and about at meetings.
Do you think this will eventually become a PC Sku? that is UWP based?
I try and ignore comments by bleached. Just appears to try and troll and/or wind people up. Also, bleached is butthurt that he favours an OS that will become inferior to W10M in the near future.
You are such a drag maaaan. You comments are largely negative and/or toxic- you chose well for your account handle. No one wants to see your comments around here.
You mean Atrix? Well though technically it was impressive at its time since they even manage to actually run a full Gnome shell (I guess) having an actual desktop at its core, the problem because there is no integration between mobile and the desktop side. There wasn't much modification and improvement from Android where you can run an Android apps to the desktop part as far as I know. That where it failed, but the concept actually still great, it just wasn't ready and executed very well that doesn't mean the whole concept failed.
Tablets wasn't popular before until iPad came which executed very well for the masses that became a thing. Tablets wasn't failed as a whole, it just didn't resonate well before iPad.
Thing is, Continuum isn't pointless as a whole. Yes it have fair share of shortcomings at the moment and I do see those, gladly at least is going to be addressed even its overdue.
I use Continuum daily now. You're completely out of touch with the market.
I love the Ori background in the Mail app :)
I think after this, it is to market windows 10 mobile and optimize continuum that it can run on future low end devices. Rather than fixed laptop shell, a tablet( or a 2 in 1 with a detachable keyboard ) would make more sense since continuum supports touch. Manufactures can make these shells standard and bam, windows 10 mobile will pick up market share
Windows 10 Mobile Anniversary Update Ciontinuum supports touch monitors.
Microsoft needs to add a landscape Start Screen for the W10M tablets, mini-laptops, and small 2-in-1 devices.
They need the Alt-Shift shortcut to switch keyboard languages
On Windows 10 windows key +space is the short cut to change keyboard language, and same on w10m continuum
Now if all upcoming products support USB-C docking to a compact and affordable dock, they can finally start advertising this to the general public. It's about time!
This is slam dunk feature for business and even students who need computing on a drop of a dime. I see huge potential with this.
I still don't see why we don't have full Windows 10 on devices like the Lumia 950. The specs on my Lumia 950 are higher than my Asus Eebook, which has full Windows 10.
ARM CPU != x86. Windows 10 for PC is compiled for the latter; not trivial to put it on the former. Rumor has it they were or are trying to do that though.
Dan, are you saying that an x86 chip is all that is missing from the flagship devices to run full Windows 10? And if so, why couldn't they have done it by now? This would definitely be useful to tens of millions of users for sure.
X86 is far more power hungry, larger and powerful than ARM based processors. Plus only intel and AMD are allowed to make x86 processors. They basically have to scale down desktop processors to fit the requirements for mobile which is far more challenging than scaling up something that was created for mobile to begin with.
Not so much in the large department. Intel compute stick is tiny compared to a phone and is less than 5w chip.
Does it use a battery tho ? :P
They don't have a battery in them either though ;)
Huh? Why are Intel and AMD the only ones who can make x86?
Intel also isn't too keen on selling CPUs for less than $200.
Problem is, even if x86 chips were available, the win32 programs are not desined to be touch/mobile friendly, so you still would need to convert them to UWP.
Brains or real knowledge is forbidden.
You must delete your post.
But they would still be usable with continuum and a stylus, if they ever add a stylus support on a phone.
x86 just needs one more process drop and then it could go into something phone sized. We're just not quite there yet. Just like the Surface Pro 1 ran a bit hot till they got the process down and cooler chips from Intel. This is why the vision is forward looking. The vision comes now and the hardware makes it all come together when that's ready.
It's because the processor architecture is different and incompatible. They can't make x86 based phones unless intel or amd creates an x86 processor that's as power efficient as the phone processors (ARM based). Intel did have an x86 mobile processor a couple years ago (I think it was ok the Asus zenphone 2) but they didn't proceed to continue developing it so currently there's no x86 mobile processors ideal for smart phone applications.
Thank you for the explanation, I read here recently that Intel is indeed revisiting this. That would literally be a game changer indeed.
Intel talks a lot about "mobile" but I think they are referring to tablets, Ultrabooks, and small devices not "mobile phones", which also require support for radio/LTE, etc. Whole different ballgame.
What if they are guided in their marketing by Microsoft to call the surface phone a small device instead of a phone? I think the surface phone won't be marketed as a phone. It would fail in that category. It should just be windows 10 on a small screen and Microsoft should market it as the next thing. Oh and you can call with it. It will probably have a large screen and practically no bezel. This way it could be seen as a mini Surface.
I agree, they invented the 2 in 1 category. They have proven that they can do it.
This is what I've been waiting for. It's so beautiful, brings tears to my eyes. Lol.
Support for Candy Crush Saga is going to be critical. And I'm encouraged by Microsoft's insistence on installing it and placing in the Start Menu on every Windows winstallation.
How many monitors are supported? I suppose at least 3.
You would think so, but no details given. Could also be a reason why Elite x3 Desk Dock uses Display Port.
And when will all display resolutions be supports, mainly looking at 21:9 aspect ratio screens, they really make use of multiple (snapped) windows!
Yeah, actually Continuum needs to support resolution and aspect-ratio dynamically, not fixed. It needs to support aspect any aspect ratios, even not the highest resolution available.
It's really bad when using Continuum with a distorted image because you happens to have non-16:9 display.
Currently HP Elite x3 seems to max out at 1440p (16:9).
I'm looking forward to see UHD supported.
Microsoft just won.
Won What? Third place?
Hmm ios does this? android does this? well nop :P so they won on that part but when we say pc we always mean windows so only windows phone will get the tittle of smartphone pc :D!! and like this now most of the problems people said it would have for enterprises gets solve the only thing is x86 legacy apps!!!
Impressed. This is how I imagined Continuum would work when they first announced it.
This what should have been in the first place indeed. It would really fair better in the industry it were like this (also the major issues and bugs) that the perception to W10M would be at least better place than this timeline.
This is what PC-like experience is, not the current ones that is glorified "PC-like".
With this, Continuum can have a truly a PC alternative.
after this. It's a wrap. Windows 10 mobile is basically a PC. Microsoft pulled it off.
i disagree. this is great to see, i love the idea and the progress being made, but without support for conventional win32 apps, this isn't going to take off.
It's not enough to do office on a big screen with a phone, that is something everyone will be able to replicate using microsofts own Office Online or iOS/Android apps. What they need to set themselves apart is something harder to replicate: Actual desktop power in the pocket.
eventually it will support win32 apps. I think its obvious that's the way they are going. But this is great as it is. And it will be complete when win32 apps are there.
Continuum doesn't need to support Win32 apps. If the phone is capable of running them, it by default is an x86 processor. At that point the phone is basically a Win 10 PC and already supports a second monitor, keyboard, mouse, miracast, etc. At that point you no longer need UWP, as the phone can run x86/Win32 applications. You just wouldn't want to run Photoshop, Visio, Project on a 5-6" screen.
It's a start. Until Intel can somehow find a way to cram a decent atom-like chip into a phone, this would have to do. In any case, the UWP apps would just run on x86 as well, so we are waiting for Intel to get this done. In the meantime, better to get the software ready.. This is great stuff!
Or acquire AMD and build your own damn chips. Like Apple does. It has huge benefits. iPhone still has the fastest chip out there. And its still Dual Core. The chip in the iPad Pro is faster than a Core M3.
I've wondered this myself. I watched the iPhone 7 launch keynote, and it was interesting how many proprietary chips (at least three) they have, and how critical they appear to be to the phone's features and performance.
2-3 years from now, the whole concept of win32 apps will die. Most apps will have been re-written as UWP. For enterprises, those that are not can be virtualized and run remotely if their is demand to run win32 on mobile.
UWP does not mean that it can run on ARM. You won't see world of Warcraft or Photoshop running on ARM anytime soon.
2-3 years is way too short. Just because Win32 is been here in the industry for so long and seems old doesn't mean its obsolete or easily replaceable. Thing is there are some technically advantages that these kind of apps offer that UWP isn't capable yet or not designed. If UWP, it need years to mature where its really stable, reliable, robust, and can compete with low-level performance as Win32. Even new Calculator that is based on UWP model is bit slower than the old one from Windows 7-8.X.
HP Elite x3 has a Citrix client.
Corporates can use a server virtualized PC right now!
There'll be always a power gap between your watercooled workstation and your fanless small device.
Win32 has the main advantage that it can carry viruses and malware. WIn dows 10 Mobile does not need anti-virus software because it does not support side-loading of apps unless you want it...
Oh, you sweet summer child.
Not to mention that charges of putting your app on store.
Its Windows RT all over again.
Windows RT had exclusive apps.
This time with UWP I run the same apps on my PC and Phone. Xboxes' can now also run these same apps.
Not without a UWP File Explorer that can do everything the Win32 one can do (Network drives, proper copy / cut / paste, not the dumb copyto / moveto, default app setting, open with option, etc). Current W10M file explorer is garbage.
Well... the biggest thing that was missed in this article that jumps out to me is that Continuum supports touch! Gotta love that. I also still wish it would be able to run x86 applications natively and more apps (Netflix, I'm looking at you) to support Continuum.
Touch should already be here with RS1 ;)
Yup. Would love Netflix to support continuum. Workaround is to watch with edge but it's clumsy
Daniel, I have a question for you.
Say there's an app that's written in UWP but that's only available for desktop. I don't know if StaffPad is a good example or if it's WinRT, but bear with me. This is an app that's not available in the phone store, but that would still make sense in Continuum. Does Microsoft have plans to let users download desktop app for Continuum use? What about pen support on touch-screen monitor?
Thanks.
It's all up to the developer and what they want.
Currently, they can choose to have their apps deployed to one or all of the following: Mobile, PC, Surface Hub, HoloLens, Xbox, Continuum-enabled.
What I can tell you that is not public knowledge is Microsoft gives some 'big' name apps financial incentives for making their app Continuum-enabled. In other words, they are are aggressively courting app devs to make their apps Continuum supported.
Can an app be Desktop and Continuum enabled, but not phone? I can imagine quite a few apps where a small screen wouldn't make sense, but both Desktop and Continuum would. In that case, how do you distribute through the store?
To my knowledge, no. You have to enable Mobile and from there you can get Continuum. I'll ask around.
I suppose they could make it that you could click on the app and it would prompt you to "connect to continuum to use this app" But for this to work then the hardware requirements in store would have to include "supports continuum" to stop people with non continuum phones from downloading and being disappointed that it wont work and then give a 1* rating
User experience on phones and desktop/continuum doesn't need to be the same to my knowledge, they could always put basic features on the phone UI - read-only use cases for example - and allow the full power of the app only when it's used with desktop/continuum.
You can have a completely different UI for each of the device families just by following a naming convention - You could still share the ViewModel between them, but the UI can specifically be distinct per device family.
It's not done as much, or shown as much in demos but MS have covered it in a few training videos.
This is great, but I hope the windowing is extended to non-Continuum scenarios too. Can you imagine side-by-side email and maps on a Lumia 1520? Or a floating video window whilst browsing another webpage?
Agreed- this is the only thing I miss from when I had a GN2 years ago. Would be awesome on an x3
The only thing that'd then be missing from that list to really blur the lines between desktop Windows and Windows Mobile in Continuum would be a Start Menu that looks and feels like the desktop one. They promised that you'd be able to customize the Continuum one differently from the one in your phone, but that's not enough to conclude we'll be getting desktop Start Menu.
Yeah one thing I always wish I could do is make the start menu take up more of the screen. Need to be able to resize it in the same way as the PC Start menu
Yeah, not just because for the sake of consistency but for same experience between W10 PC and W10M Continuum.
Even at least when Start is opened, it should expand Cortana and make it a search box in the Taskbar like on PC. They can even just put the Hamburger left pane to have similar customizable shortcuts like on PC, even without the unnecessary Shutdown options and user switching.
They'd need to improve File Explorer significantly first of all. Start menu has folder shortcuts on the left and the one on W10M does not support folder pinning and is ridiculously too basic. We'd need network drive support too as well as a default app setting and an "open with" context option.
File Explorer is definately need to step up big time. Its a primary component that people use on desktop OSes for ages and very crucial to nail it. It doesn't have to be as heavy feature as the File Explorer on our Windows 10 PC, but it has to be capable enough with all essential features standard to every file manager across desktop operating systems.
Things we need including you mentioned:
- Networking support (directories, drive, etc)
- Multiple instances, seriously who work with file manager that can only open 1 window?
- Drag-and-drop, a functionality that sadly many people seem forgetten and taken for granted. This functionality badly needs in W10M Continuum no lees. It has to work between apps and the OS environment.
- Metadata editing
- Security/Permissions management, especially when networking is involved and Continuum is targeted for enterprise right?
- Editable Addressbar
- Groupings
Oh yeah editable address bar is badly needed, forgot about that. We'd also need a proper copy, cut and paste. Moveto and copyto does not use a clipboard, so we cannot copy files into other apps, even though, for example, UWP office supports it... Yes we can import files from within apps, but playing around with a file picker, when your file is already right there on File Explorer is just super inconvenient.
Oh yeah, its rather subtle but copy-paste system is rather limited in W10M as doesn't seem to use a clipboard or very limited. This is system-wide limitation that seriously needs to be addressed if Microsoft is serious about pushing Continuum and W10M.
I'm really gonna make a feedback about this, even though this should've planned long ago.
W10M doesn't need to be super heavy at features, but it needs to nail things that are considered essential and basic on OS that we taken for granted. Some things are small and subtle but it can impact alot on user experience.
Share a link when you write your feedback, so I could upvote it then.
feedback-hub:?contextid=360&feedbackid=64031042-e902-4162-ad9f-594e44226155&form=2&src=2
Wouldn't the already advertised/promised (for RS2?) landscape start screen pretty much solve this?
I want that functionality... And, I want it right GD now.
I cannot wait for these features to start rolling out!!!!
Me too! Fast ring users will be getting this very soon ☺
Freakin' awesome!!!!!!!
This is so amazing! It's things like this that I think can eventually help windows mobile survive for the long haul.
Yeah :-)
I'm pretty excited about trying this on the Elite x3. Continuum really is a process for Microsoft, not just a one-time thing.
Hopefully, we'll see some of these features in forthcoming Insider builds.
It does look like a significant step in the right direction. Those changes improve the user experience quite a bit.
Do you think, that the 950 and/or the 950XL will perform good with this new version of continuum when it will be released? I'll pick up a 950 or XL in november, because I'll be able to buy it with a deep discount as an employee / corporate phone (I work at Vodafone now). And I want to try this out soooo much :D Sadly, there's no Elite X3 on the list of the available devices btw.
Great! Currently you are rocking Lumia 535?
Yeah, and I love it very much. But I want a flagship now :D
Good. I also have Lumia 535. I'm a student. Can't afford any new device now :)
So you will be changing your insider ring then? :P
I think I'll stay on release preview with the 950 / XL, and wait until RS2 will be released, because a corporate phone needs to be stable. But I'll put my loved (now orange) 535 on the fast ring, and test new builds on it :D
Yeah that's what I was thinking :D
I got my dad a 535. It was a great device but lots of touch issue. The phonevwould randomly unlock itself and call people while still in pocket even when double tap to wake was off. Ultimately i returned it along with an even older nokia xl and got myself 550 while dad got j7 2016. Both of us are happy with our purchases now.
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No touch issues here at all. So I love mine :D
Even the current continuum works pretty well on the 950s. Sure, it is not a pure pc experience, but it is pretty amazing!
Thanks mate ;)
Once you go flagship, its hard to go back. Ever since I got my 1520 I don't even wanna see lower end windows phones. Lol
So true !!!
Fire up the SNES emulator in Continuum and plug in the Xbox controller. Relive the childhood but now on a 50 inches TV. ;p
Yes, it really is. Bad news for Microsoft: My Surface 3 will be obsolete once HP releases the Screen dock.
Does the Netflix app work via Continuum yet? Just about to buy my mum a 950XL and would like the transition from laptop+1020 to 950XL to be as seamless as possible.
(She uses Netflix, Whatsapp, Facebook, Youtube, email, word, powerpoint and Spotify; all of which I am hoping are Continuum apps)
No, but you can use Edge to view Netflix with no problem.
Yep, Edge works great with Netflix. Would love it if Netflix updated their app to support it but Edge is a good workaround for now
Go for the XL. Many reviews and my own experience shows that the Snapdragon 810 is BETTER at Continuum !
That's what I was thinking ;) I hope there will be some to pick up in November, because Vodafone has much less XLs than 950s. But thanks :D
:)
If Daniel Rubino said "eat a baby" he would get 82 likes.. Lol.
#puckerup
As someone who is using Continuum on a more regular basis, I agree. It will be very interesting to see Continuum evolve and become more useful as we approach Redstone 2.
Let me ask you, as a student on a budget, what is the most affordable way to get a wired continuum connection with my 950? I have a small Asus 2-1 I use around campus. But I would love to take over a library monitor and use that for more complicated work.
he dock is probably the best as you get usb ports etc as well.. but the ms wireless adapter will do the job as well and you can pick those up a bit cheaper...
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